60 Minutes - Sunday, April 2, 2017

Episode Date: April 3, 2017

Tulsa Police Officer Betty Shelby shot and killed Terence Crutcher Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices To learn more about listener data and our privacy practices visit: https://www.audacyinc.com/privacy-policy Learn more about your ad choices. Visit https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices

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Last September in Tulsa, Oklahoma, a white police officer shot a black man who appeared to have his hands up. Videos of similar shootings aren't rare. But it is rare to hear from the officer who pulled the trigger before a jury does. My incident is not a racist incident. I am not racist. Race had no factor in what happened. Race had everything to do with her pulling the trigger that day. At first glance, you might mistake him for the bouncer at a leather bar, a professional wrestler, or the front man for a village people tribute band. But here in Paris, at a reception for the Biennale,

one of the oldest art and antique fairs in the world, Hi, how are you? Madam Reza. Peter Marino is instantly recognized. I'm a big fan of yours. Oh, thank you, thank you, madam. And actively courted by people you might think would run the other way. A master.

Would you think you're talking to a bright architect looking at a guy like me? I'm Steve Croft. I'm Leslie Stahl. I'm Bill Whitaker. I'm Anderson Cooper. I'm Scott Pelley. Those stories tonight on 60 Minutes. Welcome to Play It, a new podcast network featuring radio and TV personalities

talking business, sports, tech, entertainment, and more. Play it at play.it. Last September in Tulsa, Oklahoma, a brief encounter between a black man, Terrence Crutcher, and a white police officer, Betty Shelby, ended with Terrence Crutcher's death. He was shot by Officer Shelby, who goes on trial next month for manslaughter. She faces four years to life in prison. The shooting was caught on videotape and inflamed the debate about race and policing that's been roiling the nation since Ferguson. It's very likely you have seen video of similar police shootings before, but it's very rare to hear from the officer who pulled the trigger before a jury does. Tonight, Betty Shelby tells us why she shot and killed an unarmed black man and why she says almost any police officer in her situation would have done the same.

You remember pulling the trigger? I do. It's like slow motion of me bringing my gun up, my finger coming in, and then letting off. And he stopped. And then he just slowly fell to the ground. The shooting took place at dusk on this two-lane road in North Tulsa in a predominantly African-American area. Police cameras captured the climax of the encounter between 42-year-old police officer Betty Shelby

and 40-year-old Terrence Crutcher. That's Crutcher in the white shirt walking with his hands up. Shelby, a 10-year veteran of law enforcement is right behind him with her gun drawn just two minutes after they came face to face on the road Shelby fired her gun it's hard to see the actual shot on videotape but from the chopper you can see Crutcher fall to the ground from the shot to his side. So tell me what I'm not seeing in the video. Up until the time of the shooting, it does appear that he's got his hands in the air. He does have his hands in the air. But Shelby says the video doesn't tell the whole story.

It all started ten minutes earlier. She was on her way to a domestic violence call when she says she saw a man she later would learn was Terrence Crutcher standing in the road. She noticed his size, about 6 feet 240 pounds, and his demeanor. His hands are just dropped beside him. His chin is resting on his chest, and he's standing there motionless. I thought, hmm, I wonder if he's on PCP. Why did that cross your mind first?

Because it was an odd behavior, zombie-like. It's the best I can say. Zombie-like. Zombie-like. Did you consider him a threat at that time? No, not at that time. So Shelby drove past him and continued on to her call. About 500 feet beyond where she first saw Crutcher,

she came upon an abandoned SUV here in the middle of the road. She didn't activate her dashboard camera because she thought this was just a broken-down vehicle. But when she got out of her patrol car, she noticed the motor of the SUV was running. I work in a high-crime area where every day we get calls of shots fired. I don't think this is just an abandoned vehicle. So I walk on up to the driver's side.

I glance in. I don't see anyone. And I notice the windows are down. Did you see any weapons? I wasn't looking for any. I was glancing to see if there was someone hurt. Then she says she noticed the man she had seen just moments before walking toward her and the abandoned vehicle. And I say, hey man, is this your vehicle? And he mumbles something and I can't understand him. And he starts putting his hands in his pockets.

I say, hey, man, take your hands out of your pockets. I'm trying to find out, is this your vehicle? And when I tell him to take his hands out of his pockets, he just immediately puts them in the air. So what's going through your mind? Well, what's going through my mind is what I've experienced before. I've encountered people putting their hands in their pockets, and I find a loaded gun in their pocket.

None of the early encounter was recorded on video, but Shelby says her training taught her that people on PCP could turn violent. And she says Crutcher kept reaching into his pocket. That's when I get on the radio, say, I've got a subject that's not showing me his hands. And it was at that point that I drew my weapon in a ready position. It would just be a motion like this if you need to. Was he being belligerent? No. Was he showing any aggression?

No. Is it possible that you saw him as more dangerous because he was a large black man? No. What I based everything on was his actions, his behaviors. Race had nothing to do with my decision-making. Shelby says Crutcher kept ignoring her commands, kept walking toward the SUV, even though she

had drawn her gun and had ordered him to get on his knees. And he's not doing it. I'm hollering at him, stop. Stop now. And he has now put his hands back up in the air, and he's looking at his vehicle, back at me. And you're thinking? I'm thinking he's calculating how he can get to his vehicle to get whatever weapon it is that he's going to get because he didn't find it in his pocket.

I was literally a quarter mile away, so I got in the car and drove to the scene quickly. Officer Tyler Turnbow responded to Officer Shelby's radio call. His siren was on, so his dashboard camera was running. The ground-level video of the shooting was recorded from his car. So what did you see when you got there? The first thing I saw when I got there was Mr. Crutcher walking away with his hands up. Betty has him at gunpoint, and I got out of the car, and I can hear her giving him commands, stop, get on the ground, don't go back to your car.

All right, Betty Jo, where you at? At the same time, a police helicopter swooped in with two officers on board, a pilot and a spotter, who that day happened to be Officer Betty Shelby's husband. He's got his hands up there for her now. David Shelby says he could see his wife had a weapon drawn. The pilot saw something else. That looks like a bad dude, too. Did you think he looked like a bad dude?

What I saw was an individual that was being noncompliant and apparently and obviously refusing to obey the commands of the officer. As Officer Turnbow ran to assist, he saw that Betty Shelby had drawn her gun, so he grabbed his taser. If the roles had been reversed and she had her taser out, then I would have had my gun out. Did you assess the situation as being dangerous? Yes.

It made hair stand up on the back of my neck. I don't know what this guy's doing. Why is he walking away from her? What are his intentions? Why didn't he just stop? And so we see his arms are up. Yes. We're behind it.

We asked Betty Shelby to look at the video and show us what she saw before the fatal shot. I'm feeling that his intent is to do me harm, and I keep thinking, don't do this. Please don't do this. Don't make this happen. And right there, he's looking back at me. That's what we call targeting. So he's getting my position, my last known location, to retrieve and then shoot. You think he's sizing up the situation to see where you are, how close. If he were to grab a weapon, he would know exactly where to turn to shoot.

That's what you were thinking? Yes. It's unclear what happened in the final moments of Crutcher's life. Officers Shelby and Turnbow were in front of the dashboard camera, and the helicopter was too far away. But Betty Shelby says what's hard to see on the videotape is what she saw. She says Crutcher dropped his arms and reached into the car. His shoulders drop, his arm drops, and he's reaching in and it's fast. Upper taser, I think.

Just that would tell any officer that that man's going for a weapon. You see this on the video? Yes. That's what you say is Mr. Crutcher reaching into the car? Yes. I say with a louder, more intense voice, stop, stop, stop. And he didn't. And that's when I took aim. I don't know what Officer Shelby was thinking when she pulled that trigger. Tiffany Crutcher is Terrence Crutcher's twin sister. She says the tape shows her brother was not being aggressive, not being threatening. There is a frame that seems to show that his hands were lowered, and that's what she says alarmed her and made her fear for

her life. Of course, she's saying everything that she's supposed to say to defend herself. What we saw on that video is what my dad always taught us to do if we were pulled over by a police officer. Put your hands in the air and put your hands on the car. And my brother did what my father taught us. Was this a case of hands up, don't shoot? Absolutely. It absolutely was. But Officer Shelby says it was a case of a noncompliant subject who she perceived was threatening her life. That's why, she says, she pulled the trigger. Officer Turnbow says he saw the same threat and fired his taser at the same moment.

It was the first time Betty Shelby had discharged her gun in the line of duty. If things had worked out differently, he would go before a judge, have his day in court. Yes. But as it turns out, you're judge, jury, and executioner on the spot? No. I saw a threat, and I used the force I felt necessary to stop a threat. Do you think, I could shoot him in the leg, I could shoot him in the foot, is there nothing else you could have done? No. And I'm not trained to shoot someone in the foot.

We don't train to be cowboys and to be like what they show on the movies. Terrence Crutcher lay bleeding in the street for about two minutes before officers moved in to check him for weapons and administer first aid. He was pronounced dead at the hospital. A vial of PCP was found in the driver's side door pocket, but police found no weapons on his body or in his car. Do you have any regrets about this? I have sorrow that this happened, that this man lost his life, but he caused the situation to occur. So in the end, he caused his own. He caused his death. Yes.

Officer Shelby says that your brother's actions caused his own death. What do you say to that? My brother is dead because she didn't pause. And because she didn't pause, my family, we've had to pause. We've had to stop. We've had to lay down every single night with tears in our eyes. There was absolutely no justification whatsoever with all the backup for Officer Shelby to pull that trigger.

No justification whatsoever. If I wait to find out if he had a gun or not, I could very well be dead. There's something that we always say. I'd rather be tried by 12 than carried by 6. But as it turned out, he did not have a gun. No, he did not. And because of your action, a man is dead. Yes.

How do you come to terms with that? It's very difficult. Still? Yes. I never wanted to be in that spot. His actions dictated my actions. You can take your time. I never want to kill anyone.

Welcome to Play It, a new podcast network featuring radio and TV personalities talking business, sports, tech, entertainment, and more. Play it at play.it. After Tulsa police officer Betty Shelby shot and killed Terrence Crutcher on a two-lane road last September, video of the incident ricocheted around the country. It's unsettling, and at the moment the shot is fired, it's unclear. Where some may see a threatening and non-compliant subject, others may see a non-aggressive man shot with his hands up. How 12 jurors see it when the trial begins in May will determine Betty Shelby's fate. Black Tulsans tell us they'll be watching. It's a tale, they say, they have seen too many times before.

There are people in black communities all across the United States who think that white officers overreact when it comes to dealing with black men in general, and they view this through that lens. What do you say to those folks? My incident is not a racist incident. I am not racist. Race had no factor in what happened. Race had everything to do with her pulling the trigger that day. Ray Owens has been pastor of Metropolitan Baptist Church, Tulsa's largest predominantly black congregation, for 11 years. Pastor Owens saw police bias in the video and heard it in the words of the pilot.

That looks like a bad dude, too. I think the statement represents the same bias against African-American males that caused Betty Shelby to pull the trigger. What do you mean? Betty Shelby very likely viewed Terrence Crutcher as a bad dude. Is she a racist? Does she, you know, have some ill will toward black people? I doubt it. But if she is like so many people in our nation, she assumes too quickly that a black male, especially out on the streets at night,

is a threat and not a citizen, is a suspect and not a decent human being. You don't think a white citizen of Tulsa would have been treated the same way? I don't think that young white male would be dead today. These are the final moments of Terrence Crutcher's life. You can see him here walking. His hands are up. Officer Shelby says she thought he was walking back to his car to retrieve a gun. When he got to the driver's side window,

she says he reached in and she fired. It turned out Crutcher did not have a weapon. Nobody went to check on him. He laid there. They let him lay there like an animal. Terrance Crutcher's twin sister Tiffany says her brother's death fits a tragic narrative of police shooting unarmed black men. I saw Trayvon Martin. I saw Mike Brown. I saw Philando Castile. You know, I saw Tamir Rice. But never in a thousand years would my family, would we have thought that we would be on their side of it. And

my brother now, according to social media, is another hashtag. Who was he? He would be deemed in our household the gentle giant. Terrence was laid back, calm, cool. Gospel music was his love. His family says Terrence was a devoted father of four young children, but they admit he struggled with drug use. He spent four years in prison for selling five grams of crack cocaine.

Officer Shelby didn't know any of this when she encountered him on that road, but she says she did suspect he was on drugs. His autopsy showed he had PCP in his system. Maybe he needed some help. Yes, he needed some help. But he ended up with a fatal gunshot wound to the chest. I've had people tweet and say, your brother deserved to die. Your brother, you know, is a thug. your brother should have complied or he would still be alive you know why didn't he do what the officer asked him to do what do you say to that question that he should have complied you know why did she want him to comply I'm still curious what crime was committing? Why were you on the scene?

She noticed a car in the middle of the road. So she wasn't called to the scene because Terrence was committing a crime. She just noticed a car in the middle of the road, and the outcome was my brother was murdered. Wow. Tulsa leaders feared many citizens would have the same reaction. Dewey Bartlett was mayor at the time. He remembers the call he got from Police Chief Chuck Jordan. He said that there was a shooting,

and it could have been one of those situations where they had their hands in the air. This is the police chief talking to you shortly after getting to the scene? Yes. At that point, I went, oh boy, this is not good. Were you concerned that this might trigger civil unrest? Oh, sure. Sure. Because we'd seen it before several times when this type of event happens, when it's captured on video. Four days after the Crutcher shooting, He's not going to do anything to you guys. police in Charlotte shot a black man. That city erupted,

igniting fears in Tulsa that this same thing could happen. So the mayor and police chief called Pastor Owens and other religious and community leaders together to show them the video and to help brace the city for the storm they feared was coming. What was the mood in the room? What was the reaction to the video? When it showed the gentleman shot and falling down, there was an audible... A gasp. Absolutely. It was very audible gasp. Absolutely. It was very difficult to watch.

The gasp actually filled the room. We couldn't believe it. Was your reaction the general reaction of the people in the room? Oh, very much so. We were all really angry. The video added to already tense relations between Tulsa police and the black community. Hands up! Don't shoot! There's a strong current of an us or them mentality. I do hear that,

especially from young men, African-American men, who will still tell me, I'm afraid when a police officer comes up behind me or drives behind me. That's a problem. A long-standing problem in Tulsa. In 1921, this city saw the worst racial violence in American history. It started when an armed white mob gathered to lynch a black man accused of assaulting a white woman. As many as 300 black Tulsans were killed and an estimated 10,000 left homeless. Time has not healed all wounds. The mayor told us he thought the best response to the Crutcher shooting was complete transparency. The police chief rushed to release the video to the public. He also released Betty Shelby's name. I want to assure our community, and I want to assure all of you and people across the nation who are going to be looking at this,

we will achieve justice, period. One day, when the glory clouds... And they ask black pastors to appeal for peace. I think I reserve the right to be angry and upset at being a black man in an untimely time as this. More than 1,000 people of all races came to a vigil at Metropolitan Baptist Church. It was our attempt to give people a voice, to give people a place to say, I'm mad, I'm hurting, I'm tired of this, no more. And that was the same sentiment that I think was in the minds and hearts of the people who were breaking glass windows in Charlotte. They were saying, I'm mad. In Tulsa, there were no broken windows, no violence at all.

Officer Shelby. Six days after the shooting, District Attorney Steve Kunzweiler filed charges against Betty Shelby. He accused her of overreacting when she shot Terrence Crutcher. The charges were filed before the police investigation of the shooting was complete. I've never been so scared. The lead detective told us he would have found Shelby's actions justified. Shelby was placed on unpaid leave. When her name was made public,

she says she felt as if the whole town had turned on her. And we're telling them to fire. Fire. Fire. Fire. And we're telling them to fire. Officer Shelby believes she was sacrificed to keep the peace in Tulsa. My situation was no different than, I don't know whether I should say this, than a lynch mob coming after me. And I had those very threats. You've been threatened? Yes.

Death threats? Yes. I had to leave my home. I had to grab up my family and leave and go to a safe place. Betty Shelby told us she became a police officer to help people and she wants to get back to the job she loves Are you going to go after some bad guys? While she awaits trial, she finds comfort playing with her grandson There you go

She faces four years to life for the killing of Terrence Crutcher Betty Shelby's husband, Officer David Shelby, recorded the video from the air. Shot fired! However you perceive this video, it's an American tragedy. To some extent, I think there were two victims that day, I think, Terrence Crutcher and Betty Shelby. And Betty is a victim of what? The social and political climate in our country right now. It's almost like there's a war on police.

And I think that that's what's happened to Betty. We need our men and women in blue. But at the end of the day, they're not warriors. They're supposed to be our guardians. She believes there was a rush to judgment. The video showed everything. It doesn't have a political affiliation. It's not red. It's not blue.

It's not black. It's not white. It is what it is. And what we saw was my brother with his hands up. And he was tased and shot simultaneously. Officer Shelby was charged with manslaughter. Are you satisfied with those charges? I am. I don't believe she woke up that morning and said,

I'm going to go and kill Terrence Quetcher. I believe that she choked and she pulled the trigger and she killed him. Overreacted? Absolutely. Was Terrence Crutcher's an avoidable death? Yes.

Did this have to play out the way it did? No. What would have to play out the way it did? No. What would have changed things? If he would have complied, if he would have communicated with me, if he would have just done as I asked him to do, we would not be here. You and I would never have met, and no one would ever know my name. Welcome to Play It, a new podcast network featuring radio and TV personalities

talking business, sports, tech, entertainment, and more. Play it at play.it. Over the years, we've done stories on all sorts of people. But to our knowledge, we have never done one on a late middle-aged man who dresses in biker gear with visible tattoos and sterling silver skull rings. And certainly not one who also happens to be fluent in French and advanced mathematics. No, Peter Marino is one of a kind. If you follow the worlds of art, architecture, and high fashion, you probably know he is a serious player in all of them, a tastemaker for some of the richest, most

sophisticated people in the world, many of whom would agree Marino's appearance is actually one of the least interesting things about him. At first glance, you might mistake him for the bouncer at a leather bar, a professional wrestler, or the frontman for a village people tribute band. But here in Paris, at a reception for the Biennale, one of the oldest art and antique fairs in the world, Hi, how are you? Madame Rizzo. Peter Marino is instantly recognized. I'm a big fan of yours.

Oh, thank you, thank you, Madame. And actively courted by people you might think would run the other way. A master. But behind the threatening keep-your-distance facade. Monsieur, venez expliquer tout. is an amusing, ironic, highly accomplished artist and businessman with a sensitive soul. His talents are demonstrated in the beauty and breadth of his design work and architecture. In Contradict, he is carefully considered public image of a beast on a motorcycle.

People make first judgments about people based on their appearance. There's an old saying, the clothes make the man. How about the older statement, don't judge a book by its cover? But you want people to judge you by this look. This is your look. Absolutely not. It's a decoy. A decoy. Sure.

Would you think you're talking to a bright architect looking at a guy like me? You still know calculus and trig and all of that stuff? Had to. Had to get my license, and you've got to keep your license up to date. You have to take 18 credits a year. That's the hardest part. You've got to keep taking courses. Dude, they don't let you forget it.

Yeah. The arts and fashion worlds have always had a high tolerance for eccentricity. Take Tom Wolfe in his white suits, Karl Lagerfeld's dark glasses and fingerless gloves, and Lady Gaga. On your left, on your left, guys. There is no question that Marino's signature look has made him one of a handful of living architects actually recognized by the media.

One of your good friends said that you like the shock value. Like you like the fact that people say, what's with him? I like more the fact that I like to think out of the box. Thinking out of the box goes along with dressing out of the box and living out of the box. If you want to come up with a really original design idea and you want to capture a whole new design direction.

Perhaps the best way to arrive at that is not by acting and thinking and doing like everybody else. That's all. If the get-up was simply a publicity gimmick, Barino would have disappeared decades ago. His work would not be regularly featured in Architectural Digest and other glossy magazines. And the firm that bears his name would not be occupying two floors and 16,000 square feet of some of the most expensive office space in New York, which is furnished with museum-quality artwork, all for Marino's private collection. Paintings and sculpture, modern art and antiquities, all juxtaposed in perfect harmony. This is quite a room, quite a reception area. What is this piece? This is 2003 Anselm Kiefer. And this? This is Gandharan, 3rd century AD. Gandharan? Yeah, it's from Gandhara, and it's the

region just on the Silk Road where the Chinese culture and the Indian culture just met with the Greek culture. Art is at the center of Marino's universe, and his knowledge of it is encyclopedic. He not only collects it, he curates it and commissions it for his projects. It covers nearly every inch of wall space, and is here,, he says not to impress his clients, but to inspire the staff of 150 designers and architects with whom he turns out between 50 and 100 projects a year. Design-wise, I look at everything. If I don't personally design it, I'll review it. I'm the kind of creative director of the firm.

You're a bit of a control freak. You'd have to ask the staff for that. Bordering on the tyrannical. You'd have to ask the staff for that. Bordering on the tyrannical. You'd have to confirm that with the staff. Do you see yourself as a tyrannical boss? No, I only care about the work. And I am not tyrannical personally in any way, shape or form. But I am absolutely passionate about the quality of the work.

And so are the clients that can afford him, who mostly come from the world's wealthiest one hundredth of one percent, encompassing the Glitterati and the Emirati. This is a residential project we're building on the top of Los Angeles. It's a large site assembled from over seven homes. And this is in construction. And what is this structure? This is for the subterranean parking.

And this is a private home? This is a private home. And can you tell us anything about the owner? No. It's Marino's default answer. He won't comment about his clients, which have reportedly included the likes of multi-billionaires David Geffen and David Koch, as well as Gisele Bundchen and Tom Brady.

This home in Milan, we're told, was done for Giorgio Armani. I like my clients. All of my clients say, Peter, you're talented, but your best virtue is your discretion. They really don't want to be talked about. This Hamptons beach house was designed for a young hedge fund manager and his wife in this ski chalet in Lebanon with ocean views for a Swiss banker. But for every private client Marino won't speak about, somewhere in the world he is unveiling a project that is the talk of the town.

Like Boone the Shop, a multi-brand luxury shopping center that takes up two downtown blocks in Seoul, South Korea. No expense was spared. It's all white Greek marble. These are trapezoids, like they fell to space. It's an interesting building because the entire inside is rough concrete. He says it was built for the family that controls Samsung. It's fair to say you work with some of the richest people in the world, right?

Yes. Do they need to be treated a different way? If they need to be treated a different way, no one's told me. I remember when I was meeting certain royal families, if I had to behave a certain way, like, you better tell me what I'm supposed to say and do. They went, the way you look, it doesn't really matter. Just be yourself.

And I went, okay, okay. Those partnerships can produce some unusual optics. We watched this meeting with Sidney Toledano, the CEO of Christian Dior, who is one of Marino's biggest clients and biggest fans. They have collaborated on dozens of Dior boutiques all over the world. Toledano is used to working with big egos and difficult people, but says Marino is not one of them. I never had the impression that

it was complicated because he always finds a solution and he's very professional. How important is it to your business or how important has he been to your business? He has been key. Don't tell him. He understands Dior. He understands Dior. Toledano sees Marino's look as an artistic presentation of his personality. He doesn't even mind the fact that Marino also works for most of his competitors. This is a new building we'll be building for Chanel. So you've got Chanel up here, you've got Louis Vuitton. Who else? Dior, Hublot, Zegna, we do Zegna worldwide.

We do Bulgari. We're opening a new one in London in December. Fendi, if you just saw the Fendi on 57th and Madison. For decades, Marino has been the architect of choice for nearly all of the top fashion designers and luxury brands and is widely credited with reimagining the use of retail space, moving away from boxy department stores and into elegant boutiques. His work lines the most conspicuous avenues and boulevards of the

world. It's a third of his business. Every store is unique, and each one distills the essence and the look of the company it was built for. A sense of travel and luxury for Louis Vuitton, the timeless classic look for Chanel. How did you get them to all come to you? It's the old question, why do they all go to you? Steve, would you go to a knee doctor who had done two knee operations if you need an operation, or one who had done 300 successfully? Who would you go to? That's why they come to me. Marino's work ethic and personality are rooted in Queens, the New York neighborhood where he was born 67 years ago, the only son in a middle-class Italian family. In high school, he excelled in art and graduated from Cornell

University in 1971 with a degree in architecture. He learned the trade from the very best, serving apprenticeships with I.M. Paye and Skidmore, Owings & Merrill. But he picked up the ways of the wealthy and the value of celebrity from another master, artist Andy Warhol, who always considered business one of the finer forms of art. He certainly knew how to get attention. The blonde wig. Dude, that was so good. The blonde wig, it's pretty hard to beat.

Marino did some early work for Warhol and hung out at his New York studio called The Factory, which was a magnet for music and movie stars, socialites and royalty. Bob Colacello was the editor of Warhol's interview magazine when Marino first walked through the door. And what was he like? He had little bow ties and he was very properly dressed. You know, he was funny. He was talented. You could see that right away. Colacello, now a contributing editor at Vanity Fair magazine, and Isabel Ratazzi, the former model and longtime friend of Marino, think he has changed very little from those ironic factory days

of Campbell's Soup Cans and pop art parodies of fame. Peter fed right into that. I mean, we were all on the same sort of wavelength, you know. Tongue-in-cheek. Tongue-in-cheek. A lot of what we were doing was very tongue-in-cheek. Peter, I think, is still very tongue-in-cheek. Totally. He's enjoying it. It's a way to have fun at other people's expenses sometimes.

I think Peter, deep down, more than anything, is an artist. He has an incredible sense of aesthetics. He loves beauty and anything in art and music. It's on display at Marino's 12-acre estate, where every summer there is a lavish party for friends to introduce young and up-and-coming classical musicians. It's hosted by Peter and Jane Trapnell, his waspy wife of 33 years, a charming and accomplished costume designer

who friends say is an essential part of the equation. She's too smart to be interviewed. But you've been married a long time. 33 years. That's great. You don't look like the perfect couple, if you know what I mean. It's a good marriage because each of us is what we are, allows the other one to be themself,

and appreciates each other for the right reason. You know, it's rare that you'll find people who don't try to change the other person and let everyone be what they are. What's this? The only other constant in Marino's life, as you may have guessed, are motorcycles. His latest prominently displayed on the project board. This is my Super Duke KTM 1290.

Oh, it's very fast. You're supposed to say, does Jane sit on the back? Does Jane sit on the back? Absolutely not. She's in the back of a car and driver, and she's with the two dogs. Marino finds cars claustrophobic. He has a half a dozen bikes, has ridden them all over the country, and regularly uses them to commute between New York and his home on Long Island.

It's his release and the core of his identity. Alone, on the road, where he can take in the air and the light and the space, all part of living life outside the box. In the mail this week, comments on chess country. Sharon Alfonsi reported how Dr. Jeff Bullington brought chess to the school children of rural Franklin County, Mississippi. The kids in Franklin and what they accomplished through chess is truly inspiring. I don't know what Dr. B will do after his objectives are met in Mississippi, but dare I hope he might teach the beauty of chess and its manners to some of our leaders in Washington?

Then there was this. I really look forward to 60 Minutes for in-depth analysis of problems around the world and especially within the United States. So what do I get? Chess. I'm Bill Whitaker. We'll be back next week with another edition of 60 Minutes.