60 Minutes - Sunday, July 17, 2016

Episode Date: July 18, 2016

Lesley Stahl sits down with Republican presidential nominee Donald Trump and his newly announced running mate Governor Mike Pence. To learn more about listener data and our privacy practices visit: https://www.audacyinc.com/privacy-policy Learn more about your ad choices. Visit https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices

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exclusions, and terms apply. Instacart, groceries that over-deliver. Are you both, are you ready for this world that we are facing today? We're both ready. I have no doubt. It is their first and only interview together, and we asked both Donald Trump and his running mate, Mike Pence, about their similarities, their differences, and how they will work together. You're the vice president. Your office is, I assume, down the hall. And you go in and you say, you know, you shouldn't be saying, name-calling.

Would you do that? Would you go in and say, you crossed the line, I think you should apologize? One of the things I found out about this man is he appreciates candor. So you would go in? I'd like him to if he thinks I was doing something wrong. Would you listen to him if he said you crossed the line? Absolutely. I might not apologize. You know, you said apologize. I did say apologize.

But I might not do that. There's not just one memorial to the victims in Nice, but dozens and dozens of them. Emotion is raw. And for those who were there that night, it's not just what they saw. When they were running over bodies, you heard the noise, you know, the crack. Just the sound of running over people, the screams, the helpless look of people screaming. Los Angeles and its suburbs are home to 19 million people, the only megacity in the world where mountain lions live side by side with humans.

For 13 years, the National Park Service has been studying the animals, opening a window on their mysterious world, and raising questions about their survival in the land of freeways and suburban sprawl. I'm Steve Croft. I'm Leslie Stahl. I'm Bill Whitaker. I'm Scott Pelley. Those stories tonight on 60 Minutes. Welcome to Play It, a new podcast network featuring radio and TV personalities

talking business, sports, tech, entertainment, and more. Play it at play.it. The Republican National Convention that begins tomorrow in Cleveland will star Donald Trump and his chosen running mate, the governor of Indiana, Mike Pence. The Republican leadership has praised Pence as a good choice to unite the party. He's known as a reliable conservative with close ties to the religious right. And he also has good relations with Republicans in Congress,

having served six terms in the House of Representatives. But there are significant areas in terms of values and policy where he has differed with Mr. Trump in the past. We had the chance to ask the two of them about that in their first and only interview together yesterday afternoon in New York in Trump's three-story penthouse apartment in the Trump Tower. First of all, Governor Pence, congratulations. Thank you. This has probably come as a huge life-changing moment for you.

It has. It's very, very humbling, and I couldn't be more honored to have the opportunity to run with and serve with the next president of the United States. Before we actually talk about the politics, you know, there have been so many major world events very recently in the last week. I don't know if you can remember the last time we have seen a world this much in chaos. You even said it's spinning apart. Are you ready for this world that we are facing today? We're both ready. I have no doubt. We need toughness. We need strength.

Obama's weak. Hillary's weak. And part of it is that, a big part of it. We need law and order. We need strong borders. But all reactions to what's been going on aren't muscular. For example, look what happened in Turkey. There was a military coup in a democratic country, a NATO ally. How would you respond to that? RONALD REAGAN Well, as a president, I'm going to be, you know, they've been an ally, and I stay with our allies. They have been an ally, but that was a quick coup. I was actually surprised to see how well it was handled. And you know who really handled it? The people.

So, I mean, we can say what we want, but the people handled it. When they surrounded the army tanks, and without the people, you would have never had it. The military would have taken over. But I truly do believe that the larger issue here is declining American power in the world. I truly do believe that history teaches that weakness arouses evil. And whether it be the horrific attack in France, the inspired attacks here in the United States, the instability in Turkey that led to a coup,

I think that is all a result of a foreign policy of Hillary Clinton and Barack Obama that has led from behind and that has sent an inexact, unclear message about American resolve. One of the reasons why I said yes in a heartbeat to run with this man is because he embodies American strength. And I know that he will provide that kind of broad-shouldered American strength on the global stage as well. Let's talk about what happened in Nice. Horrendous carnage. Horrible, of innocence. Horrible. You said you would declare war against ISIS. What exactly? It is war. By the way, it is war. But does that, when you say declare war, do you want to send American troops in there? Is that what you mean? Look, we have people that hate us. We have people that want to wipe us out.

We're going to declare war against ISIS. We have to wipe out ISIS. These are people that Joplin hates. With troops on the ground? I am going to have very few troops on the ground. We are going to have unbelievable intelligence, which we need, which right now we don't have. We don't have the people over there. We are going to use air power. You want to send Americans? Excuse me. And we're going to have

surrounding states and, very importantly, get NATO involved, because we support NATO far more than we should, frankly, because you have a lot of countries that aren't doing what they're supposed to be doing. And we have to wipe out ISIS. And speaking of Turkey, Turkey is an ally. Turkey can do it by themselves, but they have to be incentivized. For whatever reason, they're not. So we have no choice. But I still don't know if you're going to send troops over. Very little.

But declare war. We're going to get neighboring states, and I'm going to get, we are going to get NATO. We're going to wipe them out. We're going to wipe them out first. Declare war? What does that mean? This is the kind of leadership that America needs. And it begins with deciding to destroy the enemies of our freedom. How? And how we do that,

I have every confidence. You remember, I served on the Foreign Affairs Committee. And I'm very confident that when Donald Trump becomes president of the United States, he'll give a directive to our military commanders, bring together other nations, and we will use the enormous resources of the United States to destroy that enemy. Now, look, we are going to get rid of ISIS, big league, and we're going to get rid of them fast. And we're going to use surrounding states. We're going to use NATO, probably. And we're going to declare war. It is war. When the World Trade Center comes tumbling down with thousands of people being killed, people are still, I have friends that are still suffering.

Well, we did go to war, if you remember. We went to Iraq. Yeah, you went to Iraq, but that was handled so badly. And that was a war. By the way, that was a war that we shouldn't have, because Iraq did not knock down. Excuse me. You're running, mate. Iraq did not knock down.

Voted for it. I don't care. What do you mean you don't care that he voted? It's a long time ago. And he voted that way. And they were also misled. A lot of information was given to people. But you've harped on this.

But I was against the war in Iraq from the beginning. Yeah, but you've used that vote of Hillary's that was the same as Governor Pence. Many people have. As the example of her bad judgment. Many people have. And frankly, I'm one of the few that was right on a rank. But what about he did? He's entitled to make a mistake every once in a while.

But she's not. Okay, come on. But she's not. She's not. No, she's not. Got it. I have to move on, or we're never going to find out why he chose you. Why did you pick him?

You had other candidates. I did. I had a lot of people that wanted it, a lot more people than anybody would know. That came to you and begged you for it. That called me and came to me and wanted it badly. And, you know, the press didn't report that. The press said, well, maybe he's having a hard time picking it. Well, what about the governor? Did he want it like that?

I actually brought it up to him. Okay. I got to know him during the, when I was in Indiana doing the primaries. And I did very well in Indiana, like I did just about everywhere else in all fairness. But I got to know him very well. And I gained great respect for him. And I looked at the numbers, meaning the financials, which we would say in business. But I looked at the numbers.

Unemployment, what a great job he did. Jobs, what a great job he did. Triple A rating on his bonds. But you went to him and said, would you want to be considered? I did. I broached. And then he said, I really want it. So why did you pick him?

I would say that he thought about it a little bit, and about two seconds later he called me with his incredible wife and said, That I'd like to be. Like many others. How does he help you? How does he help you win in terms of groups of people? And what is your weakness that he compensates for and so forth? Well, I went for the quality individual rather than I'm going to win a state

because I'm doing very well in Indiana. I guess I'm a lot up. And I think I'm going to win Indiana. I have a great relationship, and Bobby Knight helped me so much with Indiana. Indiana is a great place, great state. Why didn't you pick him? No, I'm joking.

Moving on. Honestly, he would have been very good. But he's a terrific guy. But I really liked him as an individual. So you must have considered, obviously, by the reaction to your choice, a lot of the conservatives are very happy. Very happy. Was that part of the decision?

Yes. It was part of unity. I'm an outsider. I'm a person that used to be establishment when I'd give them hundreds of thousands of dollars. But when I decided to run, I became very anti-establishment because I understand the system better than anybody else. He's very establishment in many ways, and that's not a bad thing. But I will tell you, I have seen more people that, frankly, did not like me so much. And now they're saying, what a great pick. You see the kind of reaction. He has helped bring the party together. did not like me so much, and now they're saying, what a great pick.

You see the kind of reaction. He has helped bring the party together. I understand. Look, I got more votes than anybody, but I also understand there's a faction. Is it already unified, do you think? I think it's very close to unified, and I will say- Just because of this pick? No. I think it was much more unified than people thought.

You saw that with the recent vote where we won in a landslide. You saw that with the big vote where we won in a landslide. You saw that with the big vote, the primary vote. I think it's far more unified than the press lets on. But having Governor Mike Pence has really, I mean, people that I wasn't necessarily liking or getting along with are loving this pick because they have such respect for him. And that was the main thing. And party unity is okay. You know, I think it's okay to say I picked somebody as one of the things. But I really believe the main reason I picked him is the incredible job he's done. Just look at the economics of Indiana.

Look at what's going on. But what about the chemistry between you two? You don't really know each other that well. You're, at least I've read, a very low key, very religious. You're a brash New Yorker. Religious. Religious? Religious. Yeah. Hey, I won the evangelicals. The evangelicals, you know, nobody thought, well, I think it means a lot. I don't think they think I'm perfect. And they would get up and they say, you know, he's not perfect. They point to the divorces. I won states with the evangelicals that nobody thought I'd even come close to.

That's true. So you didn't need him for the evangelicals. I think it helps, but I don't think I needed him, no, because I won with the evangelicals. But I think we have more in common. Yeah, tell me what you think you have in common. It might be immediately obvious. Beside issues, values and things like that. I think we will have very, very good chemistry.

I feel that. And I can feel that pretty early on. I don't think you need to be with somebody for two years to find that out. My feeling is... Your gut feeling. I knew him during the primaries, during many trips to Indiana. I'd be with him. I think we have a great chemistry.

I want to ask you, though, about something you've said about negative campaigning. You said negative campaigning is wrong, and a campaign ought to demonstrate the basic decency of the candidate. With that in mind, what do you think about your running mate's campaign and the tone and the negativity of it? I think this is a good man who's been talking about the issues the American people care about. But name calling? Lion Ted? In the essay that I wrote a long time ago, I said campaigns ought to be about something more important than just one candidate's election. And this campaign and Donald Trump's candidacy has been about the issues the American people care

about. But what about the negative side? He apologized for being a negative candidate. We're different people. I understand that. I'll give you an example. Hillary Clinton is a liar. Hillary Clinton, I was just proven last week. That's negative. Hillary Clinton, you better believe it.

Hillary Clinton is a crook. That's negative. I call her Crooked Hillary. She's Crooked Hillary. He won't, I don't, I didn't ask him to do it, but I don't think he should do it because it's different for him. But he's... He's not that kind of a person. We's crooked Hillary. I didn't ask him to do it, but I don't think he should do it because it's different for him. He's not that kind of a person. We're different people.

Don't you think he thinks that's wrong? I don't think he should use that term. I've never said one way or the other, but to him, I don't think it would sound right. But he will say how dishonest she is by going over the facts. But would you go to him, let's say you won, you're the vice president, your office is,

I assume, down the hall, and you go in and you say, you know, you shouldn't be saying, name calling. Would you do that? Would you go in and say, you crossed the line, I think you should apologize? Would you do something like that? He's laughing. It's probably, it's probably obvious to people that our styles are different. But I promise you, our vision is exactly the same

and let me be clear one of the things I found out about this man is he appreciates candor so you would go in I'd like him to if he thinks I was doing something would you listen to him if he said you crossed the line I might not apologize I did say apologize

I might not do that I would absolutely want him to come in Absolutely. I might not apologize. You know, you said apologize. I did say apologize. But I might not do that. I would absolutely want him to come in. If he thinks I'm doing something wrong, Mike, I would want him to come in and say, really, you're doing, you've got to, and that's okay. I accept that from my consultants and my people. And if Mike came in and told me, you know, I think you should do this or that, I would listen and very likely listen to him. Do you think John McCain is not a hero because he was captured? I have a great deal of respect for John McCain. Do you think he went too far?

You could say yes. That's okay. And that one, you could say yes. I mean, you know, it's fine. Look, I like John McCain, but we have to take care of others. No, but I want to know if Mr. Pence would go in and say to you, what did you say? You know, would you do something like that? I promise you that when the circumstances arise where I have a difference on policy or on presentation, I can tell you in my heart, I know I would have no hesitation, were I privileged to be vice president, to walk into the president's office, close the door, and share my heart. And I also know this good man would listen and has the leadership qualities to draw from the people around him. Let's talk about some of the issues, because there seems to be some

daylight between you two, and we can just go quickly through these. Immigration. Mr. Trump, you have called for a temporary ban on Muslims entering the United States. Do you agree with that? I do. In fact, in Indiana, we suspended the Syrian refugee program in the wake of a terrorist attack. We have no higher priority than the safety and security of the people of this country,

and Donald Trump is right to articulate that view. In December, you tweeted, and I quote you, calls to ban Muslims from entering the U.S. are offensive and unconstitutional. So you call it territories. OK, we're going to do territories. We're going to not let people come in from Syria that nobody knows who they are. Hillary Clinton wants 550% more people to come in than Obama, who doesn't know what he's talking about. So are you changing your position? No, I call it whatever you want.

We'll call it territories, okay? So not Muslims? The Constitution, there's nothing like it. But it doesn't necessarily give us the right to commit suicide as a country, okay? And I'll tell you this. Call it whatever you want. Change territories. But there are territories and terror states and terror nations

that we're not going to allow the people to come into our country. And we're going to have a thing called extreme vetting. If people want to come in, they're going to be extreme vetting. We're going to have extreme vetting. They're going to come in, and we're going to know where they came from and who they are. You just asked me if I'm comfortable with that. And I am. You're on the same page on that. Clearly, this man is not

a politician. He doesn't speak like a politician. He's done pretty well. He speaks from his heart. I think that's a good thing. He speaks from his heart. And well, I speak from my heart and my brain, just so we understand. This is maybe people speak for them. This is maybe more important. Let's go to trade. You have voted for every trade agreement when you were in Congress that came before you. You're supporting the Trans-Pacific Partnership that Mr. Trump says would rape this country. Now, are you going to be able to go out and campaign in support of his protectionist positions? Well, I support free trade, and so does Donald Trump.

I do. Oh, no, I'm free trade, but I want to make good deals. No, no, I'm all for free trade. You know, I'm not an isolationist. A lot of people think because I want to make good deals. You want to undo these agreements. These are stupid people that think that. I want to make great deals. You want to undo these agreements. These are stupid people that think that. I want to make great deals for our country. We have deals like the deal signed by Bill Clinton, NAFTA, one of the worst things that ever happened to this country in terms of trade, in terms of economics. What do you think about NAFTA? You're absolutely right. I've supported free trade throughout my career. But the truth of the matter is NAFTA has provisions in that law that call for it to be reviewed that have never been initiated.

What I hear Donald Trump saying is let's look at these trade agreements and reconsider them and renegotiate them. And you're okay with that? And with regard to other trade agreements, we've talked about this. I really do believe when the American people elect one of the best negotiators in the world as president of the United States, we would do well to negotiate individually with countries. We're going to bring back our jobs. We're going to bring back our wealth. We're going to take care of our people. Very simple. Okay, more issues. Waterboarding. Mr. Trump wants to bring back waterboarding and, quote,

a hell of a lot more. Are you wants to bring back waterboarding and, quote, a hell of a lot more. Are you comfortable with bringing back waterboarding? I don't think we should ever tell our enemy what our tactics are. But what about that? What about he's publicly said that. I don't think we should. I think. But are you OK with the idea of waterboarding? I think enhanced interrogation saved lives. And you're okay with that? What I'm okay with, what I'm okay with is protecting the American people. What I'm

okay with is when people have the intent to come to this country and take American lives, that we are prepared to do what's necessary to gain the information to protect the people of this country. Leslie, go a step further. We have an enemy ISIS and others who chop off heads, who drown people in steel cages, and we can't do waterboarding. But why would you use their techniques? Because you know what? Those techniques get information. I don't care what anyone says. Are you agreeing with him? I am not.

You get information using those techniques. What I can tell you is enhanced interrogation, gleaned information that saved American lives, and I was informed prevented incoming terrorist attacks on this country from being successful. The American people expect the president of the United States to be prepared to support action to protect the people of this nation, and I know Donald Trump will. Have you answered me? I have. Let's talk about the convention. You're a showman. What are you going to do to keep it from being a snooze-a-rama, as some have them had? I think we're going to have an exciting time. We've got some wonderful speakers. We have some very talented people. My family's going to speak. Worried about violence outside. This is an

open carry state. People can carry guns. There'll be demonstrators. They've already said they're going to carry assault rifles. Are you worried? And would you call on people not to carry their guns? I have great faith in law enforcement. If they don't want to take their guns, I think that's fantastic. But I have great confidence in law enforcement. The police like Donald Trump. It's law and order. And I have great confidence that they will do a great job. There's no question in anybody's mind that you want to win this election.

I don't think anyone would doubt that. But what about being president? Do you really want to be president of the United States? I want to make America great again, honestly. I want to make America great. I'm not doing this because, I mean, I'm sacrificing tremendous things. I could be doing other things. It's lovely to sit down with you and be grilled.

That's okay. But I could be doing other things right now. And I have some of the greatest properties in the world. I could be out there. Would you rather be out there? I'll tell you what. I've really enjoyed this process. I've gotten to know the people of this country.

I've gotten to know places that I didn't know, that I read about, but I didn't know. I've also gotten to see the problems. And it's a movement. Now, when you ask me the question, do I want to be? I want to be for one reason. I want to make America safe again, and I want to make America great again.

That's why I'm doing this, and I love it. And you want to govern. I do want to govern. It is different building a movement and then going in there with the nitty-gritty and all that tough decision-making. No, no, I want to govern. Okay, this is my absolute final question. You're not known to be a humble man, but I wonder. I think I am actually humble.

I think I'm much more humble than you would understand. As you think about the prospect of running this country in these tough times where the world is spinning apart, are you awed? Are you intimidated? Are you humbled by the enormity of this? You just said it best. In a world that's spinning apart. That's what I'm thinking of. I'm not thinking of, oh, gee, isn't this wonderful? Isn't this great? What I've done. I've had people that said, it doesn't matter if you win or lose.

What you've done has never been done before. You're going to go down in the history books. You know what I say to them? I say, you're wrong. I will consider it because I funded my own primaries. I'm funding now a lot of this campaign. I'm putting in, you know, I've spent $55 million in the primaries. I'm spending a fortune now. I'll tell you, it is spinning. Our world is spinning out of control. Our country is spinning out of control. That's what I think about. And I'll stop that. You're not humbled or awed? I can say to you, talking with him in private settings, I love the words you used, because this man is awed with the American people,

and he is not intimidated by the world. And Donald Trump, this good man, I believe will be a great president of the United States. I love what he just said. Welcome to Play It, a new podcast network featuring radio and TV personalities talking business, sports, tech, entertainment, and more. Play it at play.it. The Bastille Day attack of this past Thursday in Nice, France, brought to reality a nightmare of police forces around the world,

an attack on a large public holiday celebration. brought to reality a nightmare of police forces around the world, an attack on a large public holiday celebration. The man responsible was a Tunisian-born French resident who drove a large truck straight into a crowd of thousands celebrating the French Independence Day on the seaside promenade. He was shot and killed by police, but not before he killed at least 84 people and injured at least 200 more. His father told reporters he had a history of violence and mental illness, and investigators are working to determine if he was radicalized or, at the very least, inspired by ISIS to carry out the attack.

Correspondent Seth Doan sent us this report from Nice. There's not just one memorial to the victims in Nice, but dozens and dozens of them. They're carefully placed up and down the waterfront, each one a tribute to lives lost on the more than a mile-long stretch of road where that truck came careening through the crowd. Emotion is raw, and for those who were there that night, it's not just what they saw. When he was running over bodies, you hear the noise, you know, the crack,

just the sound of running over people. You hear the noise, you know, the crack, just the sound of running over people, the screams. Coming to Nice for Bestial Day is a sort of family tradition. Aaliyah Jordan and her mom Sylvia have been coming to Nice from North Carolina for more than a decade. On Thursday night, that truck came barreling toward them. Sylvia Jordan's father, Gaetano Moscato, got caught underneath. I noticed that my dad, his lower leg was gashed open. The bone was sticking out. Everything was open. How is it to see something like this? It's traumatic. It doesn't feel real. There's nothing you can do. You're just completely hopeless. You try and flag down ambulances and people who are grabbing your hand and pulling you back because they know that there's nothing you can do.

People just cry. They hang on to their loved one. There's nothing you can do. Moscato lost his leg but survived. This video shot by an eyewitness is too disturbing to show in its entirety, but reveals the horror that unfolded that night. Was there enough security in place? I don't think so, Christian Estrosi told us. Estrosi was Nice's mayor until a few weeks ago, and now he's the president of the region.

He told us France is at war with radical Islam and supports his government's view that the attacker, Mohamed Lakhwij Bolel, committed a terrorist act. I asked for the same security measures to be put in place for Bastille Day here as France had for the Euro 2016 sporting event, Estrosi told us. Unfortunately, that wasn't the case. 30,000 people gathered along Nice's waterfront for the holiday, and the packed promenade made a vulnerable target for Boulal's 21-ton truck going 55 miles an hour. You see the intelligence. Who was this man? We know he was arrested in January for violent acts. We're talking about a dangerous individual. The attacker was 31 years old and lived alone in this neighborhood in Nice.

He was estranged from his wife and kids, and though he was known to police as a petty criminal, he was not on any terrorist watch list. Christian Estrosi believes Bolel was not acting alone, and a terrorist attack in his city was exactly what he'd worried about. You were the mayor, you're an elected official. This happened on your watch. I'm not taking this well at all, he admitted, and I don't want any suffering like that in my country. Bollel struck at the heart of Nice.

French authorities say he took practice runs in his rental truck on this promenade, which runs along the water. And then after the attack, these hotels became makeshift hospitals. Their lobbies turned into trauma centers to deal with the flood of victims. Those who were still able helped as they could. Laurent Labrie, a police officer, and his wife, Cecile Kwan, a nurse, had been out celebrating, and once they got their kids to safety, they rushed to work. In that moment, you just react, but this nurse admitted to us, today I went to see a counselling service and I broke down.

You say you went to see a psychologist? Why? What did you talk with a psychologist about? It's not human, Kwan said. What we saw is not human. Sylvia and Aaliyah Jordan say it's too tough to look at the photographs they'd taken of the family at the fireworks just before the tragedy, just before everything changed. When you looked up and down that promenade, what did you see? There was somebody on the rocks that was barely conscious. There were other people that were dead

further down. There was a dead child next to us as well. And when the truck first passed, they picked up their child that was limp, and they just screamed, and they said no. Three days later, Nish is just beginning to grapple with this. Candles and flowers seem out of place in this Mediterranean paradise. Here, blood still stains the streets under some of these tributes, while painful memories are etched much deeper. Welcome to Play It, a new podcast network featuring radio and TV personalities talking

business, sports, tech, entertainment, and more. Play it at play.it. What do you do when you cross paths with a mountain lion? It's in their nature to avoid people. Attacks happen, but they're extremely rare. Experts say if you stand tall, wave your arms, yell, but don't run, they'll back off. In Southern California, that's advice worth remembering. Call, wave your arms, yell, but don't run. They'll back off. In Southern California, that's advice worth remembering.

Los Angeles and its suburbs are home to 19 million people, the only megacity in the world where mountain lions, also known as cougars and pumas, live side by side with humans. For 13 years, the National Park Service has been studying the animals, opening a window on their mysterious world and raising questions about their survival in the land of freeways and suburban sprawl. They are the unseen neighbors up the hill, and as we first reported earlier this year, sometimes they come to call. When you moved here, did you know that there was a mountain lion in the vicinity? No, not at all. Not at all. There's signs for rattlesnakes. There's not signs for mountain lions. Some view you have here. Yeah. Paula and Jason Archinacos' house

is something of a local landmark, not just for the killer view of Los Angeles, but also for an encounter a workman had one day in the crawlspace under the house. He was doing some wiring when he saw something scary. He comes into my office terrified. And he says, bro, you have a mountain lion in your house, bro. And so I said to him, a mountain lion? He goes, yeah, man, a mountain lion, face to face, eye to eye. I came eye to eye with it. And he was, like, terrified.

He had been eye to eye with P-22, so named by the Park Service. P for Puma, number 22 out of 44 they've studied, photographed here with a small camera on a very long stick. P-22 wears a Park Service tracking collar that sends GPS signals on his location, signals that were blocked this day because he was under the house. He was just laying there trying to snooze, completely just like we woke him from a nap. Soon the house was packed with cameras and reporters. P-22 was already a local celebrity because of this National Geographic picture, taken by a remote camera

a mile or two from the Archinacos' house. Wildlife experts finally decided to shoo everybody out after the 11 o'clock news, hoping P-22 might head back into the hills nearby, which he did. So when did he leave? How did he leave? We don't know how. They call them ghost cats. Yeah, right. There you go. And though they live in the shadows in much of Southern California, they're never far away. A trail camera caught this one a stone's throw from the rooftops of suburbia.

These animals do their best to, you know to stay elusive and away from us. Even as researchers who follow them almost daily, we hardly ever see them. MILES O' Jeff Sickich is a Park Service biologist, an expert on big cats who holds something of a record. He's seen and captured P-22 four times now. This time, he corners the animal and hits him with a tranquilizer dart. Quickly, it knocks P-22 out, with his eyes still open. The batteries on his GPS collar were running low. Replacing them gives Sickich and his crew a chance for a checkup.

P-22 is healthy, weighing in at 125 pounds. From experience, Sickich knows that when the animal comes to, it's no threat. The instinct to get away from people kicks in. Sure enough, a groggy P-22 wakes up and stumbles back into the shadows. Here's the past eight months of where P-22 has traveled. The GPS signals from their collars tell Sickich and his colleague Seth Riley where the animals roam. P-22 wanders the hills of Griffith Park, a small enclave in Los Angeles frequented by hikers and visitors to the park's famed observatory. We haven't, knock on wood, had any major conflicts with him and people, and it shows that even a large carnivore like a mountain lion can live right among people for many years. They think P-22 migrated east across the Santa Monica Mountains for 20 miles or so, perhaps chased out by a bigger male.

He somehow crossed the 405 freeway, one of the world's busiest, worked his way through Bel Air and Beverly Hills, and somewhere near the Hollywood Bowl Amphitheater crossed a second busy freeway, the 101 to Griffith Park. P-22 had it great. No competition, no other adult males in Griffith Park. Seemed to be plenty of prey for him. He's been in Griffith Park for three years now, all alone, looking for love in all the wrong places. Yeah, you know, still hanging out there, which is pretty surprising. I would have bet he would have left looking for a potential mate. If the mating urge overwhelms him, he could take his

chances crossing the freeways again to find a female, a very risky business. Why not move him? Usually it doesn't work, moving lions. We would just be moving this animal, this adult male, into another adult male's territory, and that usually results in the death of one of them. And in the Verdugo Mountains, a small range overlooking the San Fernando Valley, there's another lonely lion.

I never thought one would actually come through our backyard, and he was right next to our bedroom window. And then he'd continue up this way. Nancy Vandermeer and Eric Barcalow moved here to be close to wildlife and got their wish in the form of a mountain lion named P-41, who seems to love their backyard deck. So he's right out here where we are. Exactly where we are. He has come to visit at least 10 times, triggering security cameras taking both video and still pictures. The area is called Cougar Canyon. What else? And here he is just literally made a loop around our house for some reason. Like proud parents with baby pictures, they show off their video scrapbook.

And let me point out how his paws are on the wood and not on the gravel so that he can make as little noise as possible. They want to be silent at all times. Camera technology has revolutionized the way mountain lions and other wild animals are studied. Joanna Turner is a sound effects editor for Universal Studios. On her own time, she's one of several citizen scientists, as they're called, who put remote cameras up in the wild, hoping to get that perfect shot. There he is. Okay. Oh, come on, buddy. How do you know where to look? We'll look for tracks and we'll look for signs of them. And we

look for deer because that's their food source. To lure the lions into camera range, she'll sprinkle catnip, vanilla extract, even men's cologne on a branch. And just like house cats, they love it. The holy grail is a shot like this one of P-41. But her cameras also catch bobcats, coyotes, foxes, and bears, troublemakers. You come and find that a bear has, you know, turned the camera sideways or licked the lens or something, and that happens weekly. What's the most amazing thing you've seen? My favorite is a video of a female mountain lion and her two kittens, and they're nursing on her. I still can't believe that that happened, that she decided to lay down right in front of the camera.

Science is learning much more about what happens when the lions are penned in by freeways and houses. The Santa Monica mountain range is about 200 square miles, the area usually staked out by just one male mountain lion. Here, there's often a mix of a dozen or so, males and females. It's a family you wouldn't want to belong to. Bob Wayne is an evolutionary biologist at UCLA. Using DNA from the blood samples taken by the Park Service, primarily in the Santa Monica Mountains,

his scientists have built a family tree, unlocking some strange and deadly secrets. It's just rife with incestuous matings. It's not a healthy situation. The DNA shows males are mating with their own offspring and killing them as well, sometimes even killing their mates. And that doesn't happen in the wild normally? Rarely. Both the incest and this excessive amount of strife are very unusual. You think that is all because of this limited amount of space they have? It is. And on some primal level, they long for more space. At least 13 have been killed

in traffic in recent years trying to move on. It's a double-edged sword. Being penned in, the lions can't get out to the wide open spaces away from the city. And the incestuous inbreeding will only get worse if lions from the wilderness can't get in to mate and strengthen the gene pool. But there is a possible solution. It's an ambitious plan to build the animals and overpass on the 101 freeway to open up a migration route. It's been done elsewhere in the world. This one crosses the Trans-Canada Highway in Banff National Park. At the proposed site on the 101, the freeway is 10 lanes wide, traveled by 175,000 cars a day. It would be a complicated, costly project.

It would be an amazing statement to say, okay, we care this much in Southern California about wild places and wild animals that we would do this and make a place for animals to get back and forth. Is that their only hope? Pretty much for our Santa Monica Mountain lion population, yes. And what about future generations? That's a pretty good signal. The beeps are coming from a collared female lion, P35. Researchers think she might have a newborn kitten or two at one GPS location where she's been spending a lot of time. When the signals show P-35 is a safe distance away from the spot, Jeff Sickich moves in, working on sheer

intuition, looking for a needle in a haystack. And he finds it. A feisty three and a half week old female, P44. Her blue eyes will change to amber in a few months. The spots that camouflage her will disappear. She's pretty chill. Yeah, she's good. She's so freaking cute. Sikich and his crew work in whispers in case the mother is within earshot. Green tag. P-44 is given tags to identify her on trail camera pictures. She appears healthy, but given the danger she faces on the edge of civilization, her future is a question mark.

All right, time to go back. All Jeff Sickich can do is put her back where he found her, to take her chances in the shadow of the city. I'm Leslie Stahl. We'll be back next week with another edition of 60 Minutes.