60 Minutes - Sunday, July 23, 2017

Episode Date: July 24, 2017

He may have been convicted Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices To learn more about listener data and our privacy practices visit: https://www.audacyinc.com/privacy-policy Learn more about your ad choices. Visit https://podcastchoices.com/adchoices

There are very few things that you can be certain of in life. But you can always be sure the sun will rise each morning. You can bet your bottom dollar that you'll always need air to breathe and water to drink. And, of course, you can rest assured that with Public Mobile's 5G subscription phone plans, you'll pay the same thing every month. With all of the mysteries that life has to offer, a few certainties can really go a long way. Subscribe today for the peace of mind you've been searching for. Public Mobile. Different is calling. From commutes that become learning

sessions to dishwashing filled with laughs, podcasts can help you make the most out of your everyday. And when it comes to everyday spending, you can count on the PC Insider's World Elite MasterCard to help you earn the most PC optimum points everywhere you shop. The insiders world's elite mastercard the card for living unlimited conditions apply to all benefits visit pcfinancial.ca for details he was the governor of virginia who was convicted of corruption after accepting thousands and thousands of dollars worth of gifts. The worst of all was the belief that much of the public and much of the nation looked at this and think, there's another corrupt politician. Getting this money, these loans, these gifts, these trips, I'm wondering how you justify that.

I mean, these things would not have come to you were you not the governor. That's probably right. What may surprise you is the were you not the governor. That's probably right. What may surprise you is the Supreme Court reversed the conviction. People would ask you, oh yeah, you related to those two spies. No. But I really hated myself. Hated yourself because you were... I was denying. I was too scared to admit that my parents were my parents. Being the Rosenberg children in 1950 was almost like being Osama bin Laden's kids here after 9-11. Their parents were convicted and executed for being two of the most damaging spies ever.

So why are Julius and Ethel Rosenberg's children speaking out now? Because they want their mother exonerated. I'm Steve Croft. I'm Leslie Stahl. I'm Bill Whitaker. I'm Anderson Cooper. I'm Scott Pelley. Those stories tonight on 60 Minutes. Welcome to Play It, a new podcast network featuring radio and TV personalities talking business, sports, tech, entertainment, and more. Play it at play.it. In the wake of last fall's elections, we've heard lots of talk of draining the swamp, of corruption and influence peddling. But amid all the heated discourse, you might have missed an important political story

that is reverberating across the country and that we first reported in April. It's the case of former Virginia Governor Bob McDonnell, who was an up-and-coming Republican star with a squeaky clean image and a record of promoting job growth. But his political career exploded in scandal worthy of a soap opera when he was convicted of public corruption and sentenced to two years in federal prison. He fought the charges all the way to the United States Supreme Court, racking up a hefty legal bill of $27 million. It turned out to be worth it.

The Supreme Court reversed his conviction in a controversial and far-reaching ruling, but not without a hitch. Chief Justice John Roberts described the case as tawdry tales. Tonight, looking no worse for wear, Bob McDonald talks about the case and the moment his world came crashing down when a Richmond jury returned a verdict against him. I listened to 19 guilty verdicts for my wife and me, and all I could do was sob. You broke down. That's all I could do, Bill.

At that point, I was a convicted felon with a criminal record, was going to lose my law license, my right to vote, my passport, my reputation, and other liberties, and my life was never going to quite be the same. Bob McDonnell was one of the most popular Virginia governors in recent history. In 2012, he made the short list of Mitt Romney's possible running mates. How are you going to plead, Governor? But in a stunning fall from grace in 2014, just 10 days after leaving office, McDonald and his wife Maureen were indicted, then convicted by a jury of conspiracy and bribery. They had accepted $177,000 from a local businessman in personal loans and gifts presented as evidence in court,

golf bags and clubs, luxury family vacations, the use of a Ferrari, $20,000 of designer clothes for Marine, and a Rolex watch for the governor. McDonald appealed his guilty verdict up to the Federal Court of Appeals and lost twice. But then his conviction was reversed by the U.S. Supreme Court last fall. The worst of all was the belief that much of the public and much of the nation looked at this and think there's another corrupt politician. And if I'm one of your citizens sitting at home in Virginia and I see you, my governor, getting this money, these loans, these gifts, these trips. I'm wondering how you justify that. I mean, these things would not have come to you were you not the governor.

That's probably right. How do you tell the guy, the coal miner sitting in western Virginia, that that's okay. You know, I had to make those judgments, you know, kind of one thing at a time. And none of that set off alarm bells? It didn't because I knew that it was completely legal under Virginia law. Virginia at the time had no limits on gifts to state officials, but McDonald's case stands out because he took so much from one person, this man, multimillionaire Johnny Williams.

Williams wanted the governor's help getting state-sponsored studies of his new tobacco-based supplement called Anatoblock. He claimed it had healing powers. Williams declined to talk to us. But in court, he testified under immunity for the prosecution that he was 100% sure he and the governor had an agreement, money and gifts for political favors. I considered him an entrepreneur. He had the opportunity to create jobs for Virginians. He plied you and your wife with huge sums of money and gifts. He says that he did it because he wanted to influence you. What did you think he

wanted? He asked to meet with staff people. I referred him to meetings. My job was just to connect people with government, and I considered it a routine part of what I did for job creation and just regular constituent service. Is that what it takes to get the attention of you guys? Somebody coughing up that kind of money? No. But explain to me where that's where I'm wrong in seeing that. That is an everyday action in America. And I know that to be true from years in politics. But it wasn't politics as usual for Jim Cole. He was the deputy attorney general who oversaw the McDonald's prosecution. He used his office for personal gain. The governor says all he did was make introductions.

Here is somebody who took over $170,000 to do things that he could only do because he was the governor of the state. The McDonald's actively promoted Anata Block and invited Johnny Williams to events at the governor's mansion with health care leaders and researchers who could help him. There was never a quid pro quo or any conspiracy or any agreement to help Mr. Williams. And ultimately, the Supreme Court of the United States said that

the government advanced essentially a dangerous legal theory that had serious constitutional problems. What do you mean dangerous? Why dangerous? Because it criminalizes routine political conduct, things that happen in this country every day. The justices did unanimously reverse his conviction. They faulted federal prosecutors for overreaching with a definition of corruption that was too broad and ruled that merely setting up a meeting or hosting an event for Johnny Williams did not constitute a crime. conduct on ethical grounds. In his opinion, Chief Justice John Roberts wrote, the tawdry tales of Ferraris, Rolexes, and ball gowns did not typify normal political interaction. Far from it. In our interview, McDonnell chose to focus on the positive. At the end of the day, the United States Supreme Court said that this was the routine stuff that governors do. And we may not like the amount of gifts, but it was consistent with Virginia law. And so, Bill, that's why at this point I feel

vindicated. Vindicated. That's not my reading of the Supreme Court decision. Chief Justice Roberts said himself, and this is a quote from his opinion, there is no doubt that this case is distasteful. It may be worse than that. So this wasn't an exoneration. They looked at what you did and called it tawdry. I would disagree with that. You've picked two sentences out of a 28-page opinion. But the import of that opinion bill is not the language that you've read. It's the other 99% of the opinion. But what I hear you saying is that I will accept 99% of what the Supreme Court justices said, but that 1% that sort of slaps my wrist, I'm not that.

They got wrong. No, I'm not saying that. I accept that. They found that your behavior was not something that they sanctioned. The words are what the words are. I accept 100% of the opinion. And so, you know, with my own conscience, that's really between, I guess, me and God about how I did. Dad, how about a game?

You're on. Bob McDonald ran for office on a campaign of faith and family values. But when the scandal broke, apparently so did the McDonalds. The alleged husband and wife conspirators started coming to court separately. This was my parish. And Bob McDonald moved here into the rectory of his church. We were in church yesterday and you were telling me you're a moral man. I try to be, Bill. Did this meet your moral code?

If I do it over again, I was governor, I wouldn't take any gifts. I didn't need them. So why'd you take them? You know, having a family vacation after working 15 hours a day at a nice lake resort with my family. And I appreciated that. But you're a public official. Yes.

You think the public believes that you should reach a higher standard. I knew in my heart I was governing myself properly, and I knew I was making all the appropriate disclosures. Virginia law didn't require disclosure of gifts to family members, so he didn't report this $50,000 personal loan from Williams to a company McDonald owned with his sister, or most of the gifts, including the $6,500 Rolex watch Johnny Williams gave to Marine to give to the governor. Tell me about the Rolex. I've seen the picture. You're holding the Rolex up. You're smiling.

My wife gave it to me for Christmas in 2012. With all my heart, I believed it was from her. She told me it was from her. You were telling us that you needed loans, business loans. Didn't you wonder, how did my wife afford a Rolex? Bill, I didn't know what a Rolex cost, to be honest. I'm a Seiko and Timex guy. I've always had been.

But Maureen McDonald, a former Redskins cheerleader who brought her pom-poms to her husband's inauguration, had a taste for the finer things. On a shopping spree in New York with Johnny Williams, he bought her $20,000 worth of designer clothing and accessories. Maureen McDonald declined to speak with us, but Bob McDonald, who went with her to New York, told us he didn't notice what she bought and didn't ask questions. If my wife came in with, what was it, $20,000 worth of clothing, I would notice the bags and the boxes.

I would say, honey, where'd you get all this? I knew she had bags. I knew she shopped. Who paid for those was just not something that we discussed. I'm just not the kind of person that probably paid enough attention on some of those things. His inattention to his wife became key to his defense strategy. In court, with his liberty at stake, McDonnell allowed his defense team to point the finger at his wife of more than 35 years and tell the jury she was the one taking most of the gifts

and, without his knowledge, helping businessman Johnny Williams. If McDonald wasn't paying attention, the governor's chef, Todd Snyder, was. He told us Johnny Williams was a regular at the mansion. Remember, everybody talks in the kitchen. And what were people saying? Well, we thought of everything that they did shady. Why is this guy trying to get in here so much? The clothes and the gifts and the other things. We kind of knew what was going on.

What was going on? Johnny Williams was trying to get his medicine approved, and Bob McDonald and Maureen McDonald were getting their bills paid. There is bad blood between Schneider and McDonald. After the governor fired him in an unrelated payment dispute that ended up in court, Todd Schneider turned over key evidence to the FBI, a $15,000 check for catering McDonald's daughter's wedding. It came from Johnny Williams' account, Starwood Trust. That triggered the investigation of Bob

McDonald and the federal case under former Deputy Attorney General Jim Cole. These were not gifts. These were payoffs. People are giving money all the time. People make contributions. The key difference here is that the contributions didn't go to a campaign. The money that came in went into his pocket. That's not normal politics. That doesn't happen every day. You want to take the money out of politics, then take it out of politics. But this is not unique to Bob. McDonald's attorney Hank Aspel admitted the evidence in the case looked bad, but he said it's just the way American politics works. You know, would anyone look at the gifts and loans in this case and say it's a good idea? No, I wasn't happy about having to defend it, but there was no crime.

But shouldn't we expect our politicians to have a higher standard? Maybe so. And there ought to be a better way of reforming politics in America, as usual, than going after my client and accusing him of committing a crime which he didn't commit. What do you think the effect of this Supreme Court decision will be on American politics? It gives much greater room for public officials to commit improper acts, to commit bribery, in subtle ways, and it gives them that room to do it without worrying about getting prosecuted. The Supreme Court ruling is shaking things up already.

Politicians found guilty of bribery in New York, Pennsylvania, and Louisiana have been using the McDonald case to fight their convictions. Welcome to Play It, a new podcast network featuring radio and TV personalities talking business, sports, tech, entertainment, and more. Play it at play.it. It was called the crime of the century, one of the most famous espionage cases of the Cold War. In 1953, Julius and Ethel Rosenberg were sent to the electric chair

for conspiring to provide the secrets of the atomic bomb to the Soviet Union. They left behind two little boys, Robert and Michael, just six and ten years old at the time. As we first reported in October, the brothers Rosenberg were the orphans of communist spies at the height of the McCarthy era. Relatives were afraid to take them in. One town blocked them from attending its schools. Whatever happened to those two little boys? It's a remarkable story, a piece of American history that hasn't been fully told.

People would ask you, oh yeah, you related to those two spies. No. But I really hated myself. Hated yourself because you were... I was denying. I was too scared to admit that my parents were my parents. We were the children of communist spies.

Being the Rosenbergs' children in 1950 was almost like being Osama bin Laden's kids here after 9-11. Today, they're known by their adopted names, Michael and Robert Mirapole. But in 1950, they were Michael and Robbie Rosenberg, ages 7 and 3, living in New York City's Lower East Side with their parents, Julius and Ethel Rosenberg. The Rosenbergs were ardent communists, but Michael doesn't recall his parents ever using that word. Ethel was a stay-at-home mom who loved to sing. Julius, an engineer who ran a small machine shop. That's Michael on his shoulders. My father would take me to places like Prospect Park and, you know, get some peanuts and feed squirrels. What was he like? He was very energetic. He had a smile on his face a heck of a lot of times, and I remember

traveling around with him. In fact, I rode on the subway with him so often that I kind of wondered, you know, when he was working. And your mom, what was she like? She was very affectionate, a lot of hugging and kissing, and I remember that she was often cooking. The thing I remember is just a normal life. But then, in the summer of 1950, FBI agents began rounding up a network of alleged communist spies. On July 17th, they knocked on the Rosenberg's door. I'm listening to the Lone Ranger and the door opens and there's all these people in the room

who, you know, I guess, friends of daddy's. But then my mother yells, I want a lawyer. And I knew something was weird. And then the radios turned off. Well, I'm a brash seven-year-old, and I turned it back on. So I turned it off again. After about three times, I gave up because, you know, the attention was on my father. And then he disappears. He's gone. Julius was accused of running a spy ring that tried to help the Soviet Union make an atomic bomb. After he refused to talk to the FBI, Ethel was arrested too. All I remember is I'm on the phone with her and she says, I'm under arrest. And I say, you can't come home? She said, no, I can't. And I don't remember anything else about the phone call,

but the story is that I screamed and that it gave her nightmares for the rest of her life. That scream? Yeah. It tore her heart. Their grandmother put them up for a few months, but Michael and Robbie say she resented their presence. When other relatives refused to care for them, they were sent to a children's shelter in

the Bronx. Why didn't other family members take you in? They were sent to a children's shelter in the Bronx. Why didn't other family members take you in? They were terrified. Like, for instance, my father's older sister wanted to take us in. But her husband owned a small grocery store. And he said, if people find out I've taken in the children of the Rosenbergs, they won't buy food from my store. So then you're sent essentially to an orphanage.

Yeah. What was that like? I remember it as horrible, like something out of Dickens. The staff was pretty free with the slaps and the abuse. I felt like I was in prison. You felt like you were in prison as well, not just your parents. One week after I was there, I remember crying to anybody I would talk to. I said, I've been here a week. Don't you think they could let me go home now? The chief witness against their parents was their uncle, David Greenglass, who'd worked at the military's atomic bomb making plant in Los Alamos, New Mexico. In March 1951, Greenglass testified he'd given sketches of the atomic bomb to Julius

Rosenberg and that Ethel had typed up his handwritten notes. David Greenglass's wife, Ruth, told the same story under oath. It took the jury only eight hours to reach a verdict. One of the greatest peacetime spy dramas in the nation's history reaches its climax. The judge sentenced the Rosenbergs to death, saying he considered their crime worse than murder because he believed they'd put the atomic bomb in Soviet hands earlier than anyone had expected. While their lawyers appealed the decision, the Rosenbergs were taken to New York's Sing Sing prison to await execution. Robbie and Michael, now four and eight

years old, hadn't seen their parents for a year, but they were allowed to visit them at Sing Sing. I heard that you asked to see the electric chair? Yeah. The very first visit, I said to a guard, let me see the electric chair. Why did you want to see the electric chair? I didn't want to see the electric chair. I wanted to prove to the people at the prison I wasn't afraid of it. I remember that the prison seemed like a big fortress that we were entering, this gray stone building, almost medieval-like. But when we went into the visiting room, everything was kind of quiet and calm, which is what I needed. And I think that's because my parents made a conscious effort to try to act that way. And so you could say that they fooled me and I wanted to be fooled.

I remember asking them both in Sing Sing if they were innocent. I said, are you really innocent? And they reacted, well, of course we are, you know, and that was enough for me for decades. But it wasn't enough for the Supreme Court, which denied the Rosenbergs' appeal. Never before in the U.S. had a husband and wife been sentenced to the electric chair, which would make their children orphans. The Rosenberg supporters held protests all over the world, arguing the couple was innocent and the sentence unjust. Albert Einstein, Pablo Picasso, and the Pope appealed and the sentence unjust.

Albert Einstein, Pablo Picasso and the Pope appealed for clemency. Days before the scheduled execution, Michael and Robbie joined demonstrators in Washington, D.C. and hand-delivered a plea for mercy to the White House. But President Eisenhower refused to intervene. On June 16, 1953, nearly three years after their parents had been arrested, the boys visited them at Sing Sing for the last time. And as I was leaving, I started to wail, one more day to live, one more day to live. You actually said that? Oh yeah, absolutely. It was terrible, you know, but it was honest. I mean, basically I was pissed off because they were kissing us goodbye, like, see you next time.

And I thought, you know, they should make a more big deal about this because this could be forever. The attorney general said the couple could still save themselves by providing information to investigators. But Julius and Ethel Rosenberg remained united in silence. As the hours of execution approached, reporters converged on the prison and protesters gathered near New York's Union Square. Robbie and Michael, now six and ten years old, stayed at the home of a family friend in New Jersey, playing baseball and hoping for a last-minute reprieve, which never came. I played catch till it was too dark to see the ball. And when I came in, I asked the adults what happened, and they wouldn't tell me. They just said, we listened to every radio station. They all said the same thing.

And so I knew. I got hugged by the woman who we were staying with, and she said, you'll stay with us. And I said, yeah, I guess I will. And they said, let's keep it from Robbie. And so I kept it from him for a week. For a week? Yeah. Well, I couldn't. I just couldn't. For what reason or another, I just couldn't go on with the charade. Do you remember exactly what you said? Yeah. Because he was talking about when mommy and daddy come home. And I said, oh, come on, let's tell him. Rob, Robbie, Robbie. He was always Robbie.

Mommy and daddy aren't coming home. They're dead. Do you remember what he said? He acted as if he didn't understand. I think I've had to work my entire life at reacting to bad news because my first tendency, whenever bad news comes, is to pretend like it's not that bad somehow. And, you know, if you can do that with your parents being executed, you can do that with almost anything. The Rosenberg supporters viewed them as martyrs, persecuted for their communist belief. But to the vast majority of Americans, Julius and Ethel Rosenberg were atomic spies and traitors. Many believed they deserved to die. When my parents were killed, a postcard came to the place I was staying, and it said, of course you feel for the loss of your parents, but when you think of all the boys

they killed in Korea, you must realize that justice was done. Why don't you change your names and become Christians? And you remember the words to this day? Well, those are the kind of words that you don't forget. In so many of the photos of you both at that time, your brother is, his arm is around you or both arms are around you, like he's protecting you. He was my anchor. You know, rather than sibling rivalry, it was more of like the two of us against the world. Who do you think this was harder on you or Robbie? I think it probably

was much harder on Robbie because three years with my parents, what are his memories? He has very little to grab onto. I think it was harder on him. I think he had a tremendous sense of responsibility for me and he understood more. It had been quite a while since anything good had happened to the Rosenberg boys, but in 1953, not long after their parents' funeral, they were introduced to Ann and Abel Mirapol, teachers who were supporters of the Rosenbergs. They took Michael and Robbie into their home and eventually adopted them. Introducing the Mirapol family. Robbie, Mirapol, and yours truly.

This land is your land. This land is my land. The Mirapols became your parents. Absolutely. Totally. They changed your life. Yeah. They saved our lives.

Within a few months of living with them, I was calling them Mommy and Daddy. Was it your choice to take their name? Well, I was too young to really have a choice, but it made us more anonymous. And that was a good thing. As Michael and Robbie mirror-pole, they eventually went to college, got married, and started raising families of their own. I think it's no accident that both of us got married when we were young, that we both had two kids just like we were two kids.

As early as we could, we recreated the family that was torn apart. Michael Mirapole became an economics professor. Robert, a lawyer and founder of a charity called the Rosenberg Fund for Children. They lived relatively normal lives. But for many years, most of the people they interacted with each day had no idea they were the children of Julius and Ethel Rosenberg. Essentially, I was in the closet from when I was six until when I was 20, with everybody who didn't already know. You were worried about letting the world know who you were. Yeah, I was, because whenever, when the world knew who I was, it was very bad.

Terrible things happened. More than 20 years after their parents' execution, the brothers decided to step back into the limelight and reinvestigate the Rosenberg case. Welcome to Play It, a new podcast network featuring radio and TV personalities talking business, sports, tech, entertainment, and more. Play it at play.it. Before Julius and Ethel Rosenberg were executed for conspiring to provide atomic secrets to the Soviet Union, Ethel wrote a letter to their sons, Michael and Robbie, saying, Always remember that we were innocent.

So perhaps it's not surprising that when the boys grew up, they wanted to try to clear their parents' names. What is surprising is how much new information they and independent historians have been able to uncover over the years. Secret messages, intercepted cables, long forgotten files from the archives of the FBI, the CIA, and the KGB. The new information has changed the way this chapter of American history is viewed. And last year, the brothers asked President Obama to exonerate their mother. The little boys who disappeared from public view after their parents were executed in 1953 reemerged as grown men in 1975, determined to uncover new information in their parents' case. They sued the FBI and the CIA under the Freedom of Information Act, seeking full access

to the government's files on Julius and Ethel Rosenberg. The government files represent the largest body of primary evidence on my parents' case in existence. We are not afraid of what is in them. Why is the government afraid? What are they trying to cover up? Did you think you might be able to prove your parents' innocence? Oh, absolutely. I was absolutely convinced that we would find virtual proof. You were sure they were innocent? As sure as one and one equal two. They formed a committee to re-examine the Rosenberg case.

Ron Radosh was among the first to sign up. At the time, he was an author and activist, highly sympathetic to the Rosenbergs' cause and eager to help. By then I had a Ph.D. in history, and I believed my expertise as a historian enabled me to go through all these files that I expected would prove their innocence. But once Ron Radosh started going through the FBI files, he realized he was wrong. Julius Rosenberg had been a Soviet spy and a zealous recruiter of others. I was stunned. It became readily apparent that this was not people who were arrested because they opposed the Korean War or whatever, because they wanted peace. Essentially, Julius Rosenberg's job was as a recruiter of others. He was developing a network. He ran a network. He put it together and handled them all.

In 1983, Ron Radosh co-wrote a book outlining the new evidence that Julius Rosenberg was guilty. How did the mirror polls and others on the left respond? Horrendously. I mean, it was ostracized, attacked. People stopped speaking to you? Yeah, I had phone calls in the middle of the night, death threats, the usual thing. I mean, and we lost, actually lost good friends, very good friends, who no longer stop talking to us to this day. To this day?

Oh, absolutely. It took Michael and Robbie a long time to accept that their father was guilty. They finally acknowledged it in 2008 when their parents' co-defendant, Morty Sobel, admitted for the first time he had been part of Julius Rosenberg's spy ring. Was there any part of you that was disappointed in your father? No, no, not at all. Not disappointed that he actually did commit espionage? I'll speak for myself. No, I didn't. You know, for years we were

saying our parents were innocent lambs brought to slaughter. And to come to the realization that instead they were knowing political actors who made decisions based upon their beliefs, I actually found that to be more palatable. I didn't want them to just be victims. But your father was breaking U.S. law to do this. Yeah, he was. And I think that if he'd been arrested and given a five or ten year prison sentence, we would have nothing to complain about.

There's now plenty of evidence that Julius Rosenberg's spy network stole important technology for jet fighters, radar, and detonators. But the one thing he and his spies didn't do a very good job of stealing was atomic secrets, the heart of the prosecutor's case. Most historians agree that the Soviets got the most important atomic bomb-making information from Los Alamos scientists Klaus Fuchs and Theodore Hall, who belonged to a different Russian spy ring. The Los Alamos informant Julius was accused of recruiting, Ethel's brother David Greenglass,

was a machinist, not a scientist. When a copy of the sketch Greenglass said he drew for the Soviets was made public in 1966, nuclear scientists were not impressed. 1966, top scientists look at it and they make it clear that this thing is the secret of nothing. It's got no dimensions in it. It's got errors in it. Newspapers called Julius and Ethel Rosenberg atomic spies, and the judge sentenced them to death for putting the atomic bomb in the hands of the Soviet Union. But there's ample evidence the U. them to death for putting the atomic bomb in the hands of the Soviet Union. But there's ample evidence the U.S. government knew at the time that the information

David Greenglass gave to the Soviets was of minor value. The prosecutors knew the information that Rosenberg's had access to was not the crown jewels of the atomic world. Yes, but they were pushing for a prosecution without using the hardest evidence they had. It couldn't be used. That's because in the 1940s, the U.S. government had been secretly intercepting Soviet messages, and it didn't want the Soviets to know it had broken their code. So instead, prosecutors pressured David Greenglass and his wife Ruth to testify against Julius and Ethel Rosenberg. Michael and Robbie argued that prosecutors framed their mother by inventing evidence that she typed up David

Greenglass's notes on the atomic bomb. We're sitting right there. Yes, sir. In 2001, half a century after he testified that his sister typed up his notes, David Greenglass told 60 Minutes correspondent Bob Simon it was a lie. So Ethel finally went to the electric chair on the basis of evidence that was false. False. He said he did it to save himself and his wife, and he showed little remorse. I was still here. I didn't have to go away. Nobody killed me, and I survived. Your sister didn't? You know, I'd like to say something. I would not sacrifice

my wife and my children for my sister. How do you like that? My wife is more important to me than my sister. Greenglass said he was pressed to give this false testimony by one of the prosecutors in the case, Roy Cohn, who would go on to become Senator Joseph McCarthy's right-hand man and was later disbarred for unethical conduct. Did Cohn encourage you to testify that you saw Ethel typing up the notes? Of course he did. As a reward for his testimony against the Rosenbergs, David Greenglass got a reduced sentence and his wife, Ruth, who had served as a Soviet courier, never spent a day in prison. Prosecutors believe the prospect of Ethel dying in the electric chair would force Julius Rosenberg to confess and name other Soviet spies. In the case of my mother, she really is collateral damage. You know, this is

the government trying, you know, putting a gun to her head and saying to Julie, talk or we'll kill her. You don't think she was involved at all? We don't believe that. And we're in fact, we believe the evidence has virtually proved that. After David and Ruth Greenglass died, their testimony to a grand jury before the Rosenberg's trial was unsealed. There was no mention of Ethel Rosenberg typing up David Greenglass's notes. And when those Soviet messages the U.S. had been secretly decoding were publicly released, they showed the Soviets had never given Ethel Rosenberg a code name. In 1997, when Julius Rosenberg's former Soviet handler, Alexander Feklasov, went public with tales of Julius's spy missions for the Soviet Union,

Feklasov had this to say about Ethel Rosenberg. Ethel never worked for us. She didn't do anything. Based on this information, Robert and Michael Mirapol launched a campaign to clear their mother's name. In 2015, they got 13 members of the New York City Council to issue a proclamation declaring the government wrongfully executed Ethel Rosenberg. It is time for the federal government to step up and do the same. Last year, they launched a petition drive calling on President Obama to exonerate their mother before leaving office. But historian Ron Radosh told us, given the documents he's seen, that would be a mistake. She was an accessory to spying by helping, identifying people,

urging people to be recruited, suggesting that her own brother be recruited. This is aiding those who are spying. It's aiding and abetting. You're saying even though she wasn't as involved as her husband, she's still engaged in a conspiracy? Yes. She considered herself a friend of the Soviet Union, was doing, helping her husband in his valuable work. So the trial was not fair, but that doesn't mean the Rosenbergs were innocent. Right. You could say, if you want to say, those who say the Rosenbergs were framed, they framed guilty people. But you are acknowledging there was an injustice when it comes to Ethel in terms of the death penalty. Yes.

Yeah. Compared to the others, she was of minimal importance. She should not have been executed. The government did it as a mechanism of leverage, hoping that would push Julius to talk. It didn't work. And I think they were shocked that it didn't work. They all thought Julius would break and cooperate. When Judge Kaufman sentenced them to death, he said the Rosenbergs loved their cause more than their children. Do you think that's true? Yes. Unfortunately, I would agree with that? Yes. Unfortunately,

I would agree with that. Yes. Otherwise, how could they have done what they did? You've said that your mother was a hostage who was killed when your father wouldn't talk. Isn't it true, though, that she could have told investigators everything she knew and lived? Both our parents could have saved themselves. No question. The FBI agents have written memoirs in which they said, we didn't want them to die. We wanted them to talk. After your father had been executed, could she have been absolutely last minute said, you know what, I'll tell you everything I know. Absolutely. In fact, we know that the rabbi came to her cell after witnessing our father's execution and said, Julius is gone and, you know, you have

two children. And if there's anything you can say, a name, even a false name, just anything, you know, save yourself. And allegedly she said to the rabbi, I have no names, I'm innocent, and I'm ready. Ultimately, they couldn't betray each other. They couldn't and they would not betray each other. And that would have been the ultimate betrayal. Do you feel she betrayed you? Not at all. The judge said your parents loved their cause more than their own children,

which is certainly a very cruel thing to say. And it's not true. You don't believe by choosing to die rather than cooperate, they didn't prove the judge right? No, I don't think they did. If you were interviewing us in a psychiatric ward, then you might say, yeah, they damaged us by what they did. To you, exoneration would mean what? Is it political or is it personal? Both.

It's both. Our mother was killed for something she did not do. She was taken away from us. That's as personal as it can get. But the fact that the government facilitated the invention of evidence in order to convict someone of a capital crime, that is something that should concern everybody. Since our story first aired, more than 50,000 people signed an online petition calling for Ethel Rosenberg to be exonerated. In December, the brothers went to the gates of the White House to plead their case, just as they'd done as boys. But President Obama never responded to their request, and the brothers told us they don't plan on asking President Trump. I'm Bill Whitaker. We'll be back next week with another edition of 60 Minutes.