60 Songs That Explain the '90s - An Overdue 60 Songs Mailbag

Episode Date: September 23, 2026

It’s been [redacted] years since our last mailbag episode, and Rob is finally back to answer all your burning questions about the ’90s, 2000s, and more. He’s joined by Bandsplain’s Yasi Salek to discuss everything from Jason Mraz to Weird Al to chain restaurants. Tune in to hear their responses to your queries (as well as Yasi’s plea for a Fuel episode). (00:00) Intro with Yasi Salek(07:57) Opening the mailbag: What is a “goth”?(17:25) Which songs explain the 2020s so far?(28:36) Which episode would you do over?(35:26) Thoughts on Weird Al and regrettable hot takes(57:48) Favorite eras of music and ’90s artists Rob’s grown to love(01:11:08) Questions about chain restaurants, surprises from the podcast, and living in Ohio(01:30:48) Final question: Are you scared of Swifties? Power up your play with Nintendo Switch 2. CONNECTInstagram: https://www.instagram.com/60songsthatexplainthe90sTikTok: https://www.tiktok.com/@60songsthatexplainthe90s Host: Rob HarvillaGuest: Yasi SalekProducers: Julianna Ress, Chris Sutton, Justin Sayles, and Olivia Crerie Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

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That was easy. You can now watch full episodes of this show on YouTube, and you can also check out our new social media accounts on Instagram and TikTok, all using the name 60 songs that explain the 90s. We have heard your cries of despair and confusion, and we have therefore embraced various pop. online platforms. So watch us on YouTube. Check us out on TikTok and Instagram. I'm on Blue Sky and Twitter still under the name Harvilla, H-A-R-V-I-L-L-A, but maybe stay out of it. I don't know.

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Games and systems sold separately, games rated E to E10 plus. Hello there and welcome to a mailbag episode of 60 songs that explain the 90s call in the 2000s. It has been quite a while since we did this. I meant to look up exactly how long and I didn't. So I'm going to say two years and hope that that is basically accurate. We have not done this since I went on video.

I will say that. And so this will be our first mailbag with me looking directly into a teleprompter. As I answer your questions, thank you so much to everybody for reaching out, for sending in questions slash comments slash gripes. My guest today will not be a surprise to many people who addressed questions directly to her, just assuming she would be there and they were, of course, correct. Yassie Salick has joined us. Once again, host of Bansplaine, queen of the podcasting realm,

Yassi, thank you so much for gracing us with your presence. Rob, what a pleasure and an honor to be here on your, it's not biannual because that means twice a year, right? How do you say it when it's every two years? Bicentennial. Isn't biannual the same? No, it's bisonennial. Is it accurate? Are you sure?

All right. Is it not? This is the first one in 200 years. It feels like 200 years. It is the spiritual bicentennial. of our previous mailback. That's how people feel when you go on break. They feel that it's the bicentennial podcast.

Apparently they do, yes. Eons pass. How are you doing, Yassi? How are you feeling? What's new in your universe? Is there anything you'd like to tell us about yourself before we embark on this project? Is there anything I'd like to tell you about myself?

Like a workout routine? What's the workout routine? Like, what are you? Are we bench pressing? Like what's going on? Yes. Sometimes we're bench pressing. Today it was military press, which is the one that goes overhead.

And then I don't know why it's called that, support the troops, I guess. And then the other lift we did today was a sumo deadlift. So that was today's workout. It wasn't. Who is we? Do you have like a spotter? No, I go in a little group. It's a little fitness class.

It's really lovely. Okay. What else do I want to tell you about myself? Well, Bansplain is in the midst of our Indieslees arc. I don't know when this comes out. Hopefully it'll still be Indiesle's arc. And I, much to my... Two days.

Two days. Oh, great, perfect. We'll definitely be right up in it. Much to my shock and awe, you've not done House of Jealous Lovers by the Rapture? Yeah, that's on the long list. That would be a go. You're doing the rapture? Can you say that?

We're just doing perfect song House of Jealous Lovers. Oh, okay. Which will also be out this week. Yeah. So it is an objectively perfect song. Look forward to that. A little crossover, a song that made explains the 2000s on Mansland. We got a question like, do you agree with it being called Indies?

Did you call it that at the time? I think it's pretty well established that this is an entirely retroactive term. Totally post. But I'm going to say something. Yes. I've come around. Okay. I've surrendered.

You have. You're pro indie sleaze. I'm just like, first of all, who cares? Like, who cares? Like, you know what I mean? And secondly, like, it's kind of a pretty good descriptor. Like, it was kind of indie and it was a little more sleazy in many senses. It sticks.

And I was like, it's not like Joy Division went around calling themselves post-punk, you know, Like, no one, like, sniffs their nose at the term postpunk. Just, like, let it go. Also, it's already stuck. We're not getting rid of it. So I think it's either just get. That's a good point. Let's, you know.

Get on board or, you know, let it go. Just be raging against the machine. Yeah. That's right. Indie Sleaves is here to stay. Okay. I'm really thrilled to do this with you. I can't wait to see what your adoring fans are demanding to know of you.

We do mailbags all the time because I'm lazy. Why so much? Indy rock. That's all right. This is not lazy. This is not a lazy process. This is, this is important engagements with with with with listeners. You know, it does it does give production a break from cutting 50 song clips and 10,000 words, you know, on blank blank blank blank, blank artist. You know, there is there is that element to it. But I do think it is important. It's for the real heads. This is for the real heads. That's right for the real heads. Okay, well, Rob, do you want to get started?

I do. I do. Thank you again for doing this. Oh, my God. It's, again, I wouldn't want to do this. Couldn't be more of an honor. Well, first off, we have a question from Dr. Jerry Taco. And before we get to his question, I would love to ask you if you think he is a medical doctor or maybe he has a Ph.D. Do you, a Chinese medicine doctor? Like, what kind of doctor do you think? think Jerry Taco is. Okay, first of all, you're in the wrong doc, but we're going to roll with it.

Second of all, Dr. Jerry Taco. Dr. Jerry Taco, I don't know if this is a medical doctor. I'm going to guess a psychiatrist. I just, I just, I get that vibe. You know, I think it's, I don't think this is a, we're not dealing with a brain surgeon here, but we are dealing with a trained professional. Maybe he's a chiropractor. Okay, I'm so sorry. I was in the wrong dog. And I'm really, and Jerry Taco, at least you got your name talked about. Let's get to the, let's get to the correct stock. Let's do it. With love and respect to Dr. Jerry Taco.

No, no. I go ahead. Let's, we've committed to Dr. Jerry Taco, whose question is, what is a goth? Oh, yeah. Dr. Jerry Taco would like to know what a goth is. I trust you more than me to answer this question, but I did, that's unfair of me to make you answer the question. What is a goss?

A goss? These are my friends who I play you with every week. Is it not kind of, I feel like this person must be young. I mean, goss are people. No. Mostly coming from the, no, they're not people. No, they are not people. No, they are not young.

They are ghouls and goblins. Rooted, you know, they come from the 80s sort of post-punk world I'll tell you what, I saw multi-generational goths, which was one of the most beautiful visions of my life a couple weeks ago when I went and saw The Cure in Scotland. And there was truly goths of all ages and sizes. For example, I saw a man walk through the crowd wearing a full, from the back, he just looked like he would be your investment banker. He had a polar fleece and some chinos and a like, scoffed haircut. turned around just a smear of red lipstick. Really incredible stuff.

It's a tasteful. Yeah. Yeah. A subdued goth. Yeah, they were black. They wore dramatic makeup. Their hair is often black. They appreciate.

And or glooming. They have an appreciation for the melancholy, the more mysterious and melancholic shades of life. That's what a goth is, Dr. Jerry Taco. there we go. God bless you, Dr. Jerry Taco. Okay, I'm on the right doc now. You guys have apologized for the mishap.

It's all right. That was perfect, actually. That works for me. Listen, sometimes God works in mysterious ways, like we said. That's right. That's right. This question. Or she's a case may be, yes.

Is from Lindsay, who may or may not be a doctor. She didn't specify. Dear Rob and crew, I have recently succumbed to making a grave mistake reading in the comments. Don't do it. I'm always surprised when a version of, quote, this song doesn't explain the 2000s is made. It happens frequently. At this point, deep into this glorious podcast concept, how do you understand, quote, songs that explain? And what do you make of folks who seem to be missing the point anytime a song doesn't fit their experience?

Thank you for all that you share with us, and thanks to the whole crew for bringing this show to life. It's been an excellent companion in a hard season. There's also a PS that says you cannot have Hanif, Abdu Karib, on enough. He's the best, and that is the most evergreen statement of all time. We would all love Hanif to come on every episode of our program every time. We ask him frequently, and he always comes. He is the mayor of Columbus, absolutely, absolutely.

So, Rob, you read the comments. You read every single comment every day. That's your part of your morning practice is to read the comments. Okay, yes. In lieu of morning pages, yes, I just read the comments and then reflect on them for 15 minutes. I do not, I told you to stay off Reddit and I stay off Reddit. I do not ordinarily read the comments. But I had, there was a blip there for three or four episodes where I did sort of realize that Spotify has comments now.

and I was looking at it and I was observing that I think there's something interesting about the 2000s when culture sort of atomizes a little bit. Like I've gone back and forth and I think you have as well, like whether the monoculture ever existed, you know, in the 80s and the 90s. But I do think there's something about the 2000s where there are more likely to be songs that are very important to me and very important to a lot of people that other people had no experience of. Like, if you didn't go the pitchfork route

as like a rock enthusiast in the 2000s, then even someone like TV on the radio or Wolf Parade, you know, these bands are very, very important, very fantastic. Like, they, they don't resonate the way like smashing pumpkins,

you know, did in the 90s. I don't mean to single her out, but Joanna Newsome was quite vexing. to some people. Like I've never heard of this person. How does this person explain the 2000s, like, et cetera, et cetera? And so I am not purposely trying to antagonize people.

And I did start the show with the idea of not being like super inside baseball rock critic. You know what I'm saying? I like that the show ideally has sort of a universal feel. But I do think the 2000s is interesting in that. You get these songs that are very, very, very, very important to a smaller, but still a very important group of people that are completely unknown, you know, to a wider audience. There's more of a silo thing.

Like, and I always just assume this is the internet, right? Like, working as intended. Like, we're starting to go off on our own journeys, you know. And there's always going to be, you know, like the Taylor Swift's of the world, you know, the big pop songs. But I, especially with rock, it feels. Like once you get beyond, you know, the strokes, white stripes of it all, you know, there aren't a lot of rock bands that everyone agrees on, you know, or that everyone is a hundred

percent aware of. And I, I don't want to antagonize people and like, if I'm doing too much indie, like, I will keep that in my, I do kind of reserve the right to do whatever I want to some degree. Like, I'm really glad I did Joanna Newsom. And I do, to get to the actual question, like, 60 songs that Explain the 90s is now an inaccurate title in like two or three ways and I don't want to be the guy

whose title whose podcast title is just a lie but I am that person and explain is doing a whole lot of work and is not maybe meant to be taken

like as a dictionary definition literal type thing what's What interests me about the 2000s is that everyone is starting to have their own very specific experience of the decade. Can I just say like you're such a nice person? Thank you. I did one.

One of the ways that I think you and I work well together in this format is that you are free to be less of a nice person if you want to be. I get it. Like I understand. I do. I do live to antagonize people. Who's podcast is this? Is it yours? No, go make one then.

I don't know. Do you know what I mean? Several things. I know what you mean. You're not legally mandated to listen. This is not a government provided service. It's not the post office. Yeah.

There are other podcasts. No. Keep it moving. Is it reliable is the post off. There are. Yes. That's how I feel. Leave my Rob alone.

You can do whatever he wants. Two valid perspectives. Okay. Next question. Well, I guess you already kind of address this, but Ben said any response for the haters. That's a callback to a previous episode. That's a Zach Barron quote, actually. That is the last question from a Zach Barron interview conducted in the Village Voice. Am I now on a third wrong document or is this still? No, that's it. No, you are on, you are now. There were. were only two documents to prevent exactly that occurrence. You are now in the correct document.

We love Zach Barron. We do love Zach Barron. He just interviewed Tom Cruz, and I hope that he asked Tom Cruise, do you have any message for the haters? Because I'm imagining that Tom does. Yeah, I would hope so. You know what I think. What's that? The haters, the haters are great. The haters are part of the ecosystem. The haters are actually unpaid employees working over. time to make us more famous. And if that's what they would love to do with their time, yeah. As you can tell, both Rob and I set out from a very young age to become famous. At the very least, they're raising our profiles. So go off haters.

Enjoy your unpaid labor. Is it Eric Adams, the disgraced mayor of New York City? It was like, the haters are your waiters at the buffet of success. Am I, I'm doing that from memory, but I'm pretty sure. I'm really sorry, but period. That's one of the true. That's gold. Yes. Yes. Um, the haters are the waiters at your buffet of success. Here's a, there's a small issue with that because by, by definition, a buffet doesn't have waiters because you serve yourself, but we don't need to like that's, they bring drinks. I know, they bring drinks and they take away your plates. Yeah. The metaphor. It's a little wonky. But, okay,

This question is from Colin. You've talked about the monoculture a bit over the years, more so in the 90s episodes. Obviously, the rise of the internet and digital music and the blogosphere led to the monoculture's fracture, at least when it comes to music. As we near the 60th song that explains the 90s, colon the 2000s, do you think it's even possible to do 60 songs that explain the tens or even the 20s? To me, it seems like genres have become so hyper-specific and outside of the Taylor Swift of the world, there are not a lot of songs which really define either decade. As you get into the 20s, there are a lot of songs that maybe explain the culture. They seem to arise via TikTok Instagram algorithms and are often decades old, see running up that hill. Do those songs, even decades old by the time they're trending, quote, explain the 20s? Do they explain the 20s more than music that is actually being released in the 20s? So like 12 questions in there. That was a lot of questions.

This is a great question, though, because yes, yes, I do think that, As we progress, as our whole lives become internet, I do think that we get more and more siloed. You know, there are fewer and fewer songs. There are still, but there are fewer, fewer songs, artists, whatever, that we all agree on are all exposed to constantly. We are all continually siloed. And so explained, quote unquote, comes to mean very different things to very different people.

Like, it comes to only mean something to you. Like if I'm thinking about the 2020s, then the Phoebe Bridger's song, I know the end, I think, is the single song that explains the 2020s for me, just because that, both because of her and because like that is COVID to me. Like that song is very, very explicitly, you know, the feeling of being alone, but like together with everybody alone in this sort of terrifying situation. Like I, but that's, you know, I'm going to go see her at a hockey arena. tomorrow night, but still she is not someone as famous, as ubiquitous as like Pearl Jam was in the 90s or whatever. You know what I mean? Like it is really interesting to me how the made up word explains, you know, means a very different thing from the 90s, the 2000s, but even, you know, a huge difference between the 2000s and the 2020s. Yeah. Well, I wonder how much in the 2020s you have to really get into pop music. I mean, I got the person kind of. to that, but like, you know, Charlie X-X-Brat is very explanatory of at least a certain part of the 2020s.

You know, there's a lot of pop music that I think is pretty defining and also hip-hop. Right. Yeah, of course. You just sort of, you know, shifted when all those celebrities sang, imagine all the people together on the Zoom. call during COVID. Yeah, Gallagadol. Right. That's probably the peak song that explains the 20s to me personally. I think you're right.

And there we go. That's an old song that explains the 2020s better than any song from. You see, that's why you're here. There you go. Okay. Next question is from Nicholas Earl. Huge fan. Quick question.

Gorgeous, gorgeous set of words. I love your descriptions of physical media from back in the day and was curious. Back in the day is so like heart-wrenching. to me in that sentence. Do you know, no, it's just a real knife in my heart? And was curious what modern albums of the streaming era would be most satisfying to have purchased on CD after hearing the singles and what would be the most disappointing, thanks.

I was trying to think of somebody, like if we're defining streaming era as Spotify coming to America, which I think is 2011, like I was trying to find somebody who's a 2000s artists technically, but still fits into this. I think Lady Gaga is really interesting, like arguably on both sides. Like the fame and the fame monster, like that record is incredible, right, from front to back. Like I was thinking, like, one of my favorite Gaga songs is that boy is a monster. That's incredible. Which is like the 10th most famous song of like whatever, the 15 Gaga songs that comprise the

fame slash the fame monster. Like I think that is an example of like you get you are drawn to that by just dance or paparazzi or whatever and that's like wall to wall versus I born this way is maybe kind of not the exact reverse but like the drop off for me from like born this way and like you and I like the fake Mutt Lang song like I it's I think her albums get very, very long and. And maybe like, even like mayhem, like the most recent one, like I'm blanking on what the single is, but my daughter loved the single to Mayhem. But like my favorite song in that record is the fake Taylor Swift song.

How bad do you want me? Like there's there are some cases where you put on a Lady Gaga album and you're sort of reaching for the singles and like everything else starts to blur because this record is an hour and a half or whatever. But there are other cases where like the deep cuts are really, you know, the real meal where she. she's concerned. And so I think Lady Gaga sort of weirdly occupies both sides of that. If you're just coming for the singles, like it could be glorious or it could be a little weird, but it'll probably be worth it in either case. I started laughing because you immediately evoked one of the best tweets of all time by Britney Spears. Do you remember this tweet from 2011? I have a from 2011. Does anyone think global warming is a good thing? I, I, I, I, I,

I love Lady Gaga. I think she's a really interesting artist. That's one tweet. Does anyone think global warming is a good thing, question mark? I love Lady Gaga. I think she's a really interesting artist. No, all one. Two quick question.

Yeah. Was there a space? Was it one, was there like a line break? Does anyone think global warming is a good thing, question mark. Space like a one space. I love Lady Gaga period. I think she's a really interesting artist period. Is she implying that Lady Gaga maybe thinks,

global warming is a good thing? I don't know. I think she just went ahead and put two thoughts into one package and sent it off and never thought about it again. There we go. That's the way to do it. That's, she'd be a great podcaster in that sense, I suppose. I think so.

I think so. Yeah. Okay. Next question is from Jenny. Haya. Will you be covering any of the adult contemporary-ish songwriters, your Jack Johnson, Jason Marazes or other non-threatening men who made it into so many mix tapes given to be my well-meaning gentleman callers. I married the guy who made me the one with Portis had an Aesop Rock, so it didn't work for me.

That's really smart, Jenny, good job. But probably worked for some other Jenny's, Katie's and Lawrence. I really enjoyed the phrasing of this question very much. Flake by Jack Johnson episode one. Flake. You don't know Flake? Jack Johnson has a song called Flake. Oh, my God.

Rob, where have you been, honey? Come on. I don't know. Ohio, I guess. Is it like a hit? Is it like a hit single? I know she said it's all right, but you can make it up next time. No?

That song is called Flake. Okay, sure, sure. I need to bone up on Jack Johnson is what. I did a thing. At some point, it wasn't immediate, which is funny, but eventually I thought to just look up, like, streaming numbers of songs from 2000 to 2009. You know, it's just to see, like, what are actually the most played songs of this decade. And like, Jason Maraz, I'm Yours was indeed much higher than I anticipated. And, like, if anybody had, like, the first wedding song data, I would love to see that, first of all.

Like, what is the most first wedding. dance song of the 2000s. I'm going to go ahead and assume the Ed Shearin song. Sorry to bring him up now, but the, take me into your love, whatever that one is, that's a big one. But like Jason Moraz, Jack Johnson, bigger deals than they appear. You're beautiful. You're beautiful.

Like the James Blunt of it all. That one? There we go. There we go. I knew that one. And so it's we are, we are delinquent on the inoffensive superstar. are white guys and we will do justice to both them and the jenny's of the world. Absolutely. When are we doing hemorrhage in my hands by fuel?

This, this, you're still on this. Isn't that 90s? Is that a 90s song or is that? The year 2000 is when hemorrhage in my hands by fuel. Okay. Don't fall away. What is it about this song? Do you lift weights to fuel? I wish. It's not really.

It's honestly not up to me. It's not up to me. I wish I don't control the music. I wish I did today. However, this is a funny story for you. I brought this to one of the trainers' attention before and they sort of waved me off. Like I was some like absolute like virginal prude for saying this, which again, I don't care. But they play in some. classes, the complete unedited version of nine-inch nails. I want to fuck you like an animal.

Full zero bleeps. And I'm like, this is a group. There are people in their 60s here. Do you know what I'm saying? And I'm like, is this, should we be doing this? It's not even that I particularly care. It's just perhaps a bridge too far. And then today it came on. And I was like, here we go again. And then a woman did absolutely. Do they notice? No, I think the trainers are probably just like, you know, they hear the same shit all over again every day of their lives.

But a woman flagged the train over and was like, can you change this song? Oh, okay. I just don't want to hear Trent Reznor saying, I want to feel you from the inside while I'm just like trying. While you're doing military press. Well, I'm doing military press around a bunch of strange people. Anyways. Do they know what you do for a living?

one of the trainers is a ringer fan, so he does know what I do for a living. But the rest of the people, no, we just, I'm just a, I'm just a common citizen. You just vibe. Yeah. There we go. Okay.

Next question from BG. Which episode do you wish you could have a do-over on? And when can we expect that? Wow. The second clause is like really accusatory. When can we expect that is very aggressive. He knows the answer, by the way. He knows what the answer is.

And he's like, and when is that one coming? I don't know that he does. I'm going to guess if he knows the answer, then the REM, the REM night swimming episode. That guy now, Jake Hasby and Kang, like, asks me on Twitter while people are yelling at him about that episode, which I looked it up recently. It was like from 2021.

Yeah. We got to get past this. I do. Not everybody likes night swimming. I do. You made a grave error there, Rob. I'll say it. Did I?

Well, I mean, just kind. I do feel that you and I share a similar philosophy in which we don't come to this place, which this place being podcasting to tear people down. We come to this place. Let people like things. To celebrate and to celebrate fandom and to. celebrate why people love things that they love. And it's just kind of, it goes against, look, sometimes I have to be a little negativeo, stevo about like the fish, the fish episode

of Bansplain is one of my favorite. Because Robert Mitchum, God bless him, it's just like, it's so cool. Like he plays a vacuum cleaner and you're like, oh, oh, oh, like it's, I love that episode. So much. Yeah, but by and large, I'm not trying to, I'm not trying to, I'm not trying to backseat drive your job, maybe you should do whatever you want. No, that's all right. Well,

what would your, what song would you, irrespective, I don't know if that's a word, of the angry night swimming people, what would you wish to do a duo over on? If it were up to me, I would have simply chosen not to publish an episode

on I'll be missing you by P. Diddy literally, 24 hours before the Cassie lawsuit was made public. I believe that was November of 2024. And I know that because my fucking book came out then. It was the week my book, it was like two or three days or maybe one or two days before you and I did the thing in L.A.

That was the episode that was up the week that my book came out and the week that you and I did the thing in L.A. It was fucking P. Diddy. and I had to put like a little disclaimer in front of that episode, which I assume is still there being like, uh, this, uh, this, let, we'll see what's happening, but this looks really bad. And like I had, I knew it was going to be bad and it was substantially worse than I thought it would. It's like, I simply would not have done that. The do over, I like, I talked about my friend who died in high school. Like I got like semi emo in that episode and that episode is now like just like just a death star. of void, you know, that I hope that no one ever listens to again. And I assume nobody has. Like it's, I would simply have not done that in retrospect, but. Okay. That's showbiz. That is, that's showbiz, baby, as I like to say. And you know what? How could, how could any of us have known? How could we have known such a thing was to transpire? Okay, next question from Alyssa.

You may not have the answer to this. And that's fine. But my question is, will the 2000s series have the same amount of episodes as the 90s series. Again, if you don't know, no worries. Just curious. It's very nice. It's very kindly phrased. I can confirm that the 2000s edition of this show will have more than 60 episodes. Exactly how many I am not certain.

But we're going to keep going for now. We're going to do every indie rock song. that no one is heard of that we can think of. That you can uncover. More than 60. Yeah. More than 60, probably not more than 120. There you go.

Like when you start doing like fevery corporation or like handsome boy modeling school, that's when we're really fucking cooking with gas. You know what I mean? I'm saying, yes, handsome boy modeling school. Oh, man. Although I think that was 99. I'm terrible at this game. Holy calamity.

It was late 90. It was late 90 because I played that on college radio. I'll do a bonus 90s episode on Holy Calamity. Holy Calamity. Screams insanity. When did Lovage come out? Lovage was such a good album, the Dan, the Automator and Mike Patton album. Yeah, it's right on the, it's right on the late 90s, early 2000s divide.

It's 2000. You could do it. Music to make love to your old lady by just saying, if you really wanted to alienate the people. Get into like that bizarre corner. of like sort of American trip hop or whatever it would be called. Really good stuff. Isn't Deltron 30-30 touring with gorillas?

I think Deltron 30-30 is playing Cleveland like in a month. That would make sense because wasn't Deltron 30? Wasn't Del on that first big gorilla song? Of course. Yes. He was on SNL with gorillas a while ago. Yes. So there you go.

The album that Dan the Automator produced. We've strayed really far from Jason Maris. Jason Maraz's light here. Okay. Next question. Johann Mirkgren. Thank you for a great show. Finally a mailbag episode.

Of course I have questions. Number one, Beastie Boys or Grateful Dead? Of course. Inside you, there are two wolves. I love the classic dichotomy. I have so many follow-up questions. I guess I will take that offline. I'm going to email this dude.

Or Nirvana. Beastie Boys or the Grateful Dead. Precisely, what are you trying to figure out? Yeah, do all three of them. Okay. Number two, Best Neil Young album. And number three, Better Music, 1990 to 1994 or 1995 to 1999. I mean, I feel like that one really answers itself, but I don't want to get involved.

Okay, go ahead, Rob. Take it from the top. Beastie Boys are Grateful Dead. Beastie Boys, Tonight's the Night. 1990 to 1994. Damn. I knocked it out of the park right there. It's almost like you had time to look at it

and weren't sent this off the two hours prior to recording. Okay, this next question is from Ben Joseph. I was hoping you would cap off the 90s run with a Weird Al episode. But in hindsight, closing time did make more sense. That was very clever. Weird Al's only top 10 hit was white and nerdy in 2006.

However, I don't think of him as a 2000s artist. What do you think was his being? biggest decade, the 80s, 90s, or 2000s? Or does it just depend on the individual and how old you were when a Weird Al album came out? Also, if you did do a Weird Al episode, I bet you could get him as a guest. My wife really wants me to get Weird Al as a guest if we ever do Weird Al. Aren't we supposed to do Weird Al for a bands plane? Oh, no, that's right. We had talked about that. Not that that concludes you're doing it here as well. No, it doesn't. A whole Weird Al week. My brother-in-law drove to Minnesota to see the greatest ball of twine in Minnesota, which is the title of, I think it's either an 80s or a 90s, Weird Al song.

But they made a documentary about it's a whole thing. I'm sort of, I think that Weird Al, I do think that it's what age you were and what's, you know, your pop glory years when whatever Weird Al was parodying when you were biggest into music, which is probably when you were a teenager. that's when Weird Al was biggest. Like I do think he benefits from monoculture, right? Like you sort of reach for fats, eat it, like the Michael Jackson of it all, right? Like the 80s, you know, was very, very good to him in the 90s as well. But like white and nerdy is very interesting and being, is that his only top 10 hit. Like even I bet Amish Paradise was like close but not top 10.

Like Weird Al, it's it's so heartwarming. that he seems, again, like something about him in the 80s still resonates for me, maybe because I was a little kid, but like that he is ubiquitous even now. Like the experience that you had at The Cure, I had taking our kids to see Weird Al, like last year and just they were not goths per se, but like 50 years of like weirdos, like complimentary gathered, you know, at Blossom Music Center in Cleveland, you know, to hear everything from Edits to like the Star Wars, the saga begins song, too white and nerdy, you know, like, Weird Al as the real unifier of all genres and generations is such a lovely and surprising,

pleasantly so thing. So it's whatever, whatever, you can have your own favorite and biggest Weird Al era. I think that's really beautiful and I totally agree. It's really good stuff. He was pumping out back then. I'll read Alejandro's question. Big fan of the show. This has been a journey through commonplaces, cake, Peter Bjorn and John, and also of learning.

M.F. Doom, De La Sol. I've been curious about your relationship with these songs. Taking into account your aging, rude. You were a team. slash young adult in the 90s and an adult in the 2000s. Do you ever catch yourself talking about 90s music like a teenager who thought every genre was a life or death identity crisis and then talking about 2000s music like the smug adult who suddenly curates tastes and pretenses above all that?

Basically, does the fact that you lived those decades with two completely different brains mess with how you perceive and narrate them on the show? That's a really good question, honestly. It's a good question. It's like just a click rudder. when you read it versus when I read it on the page. Yeah, which is fine.

It's just like some of the diction was a little surprising, that's all. You hit the word smug with like a real relish. I just don't think of you as smug at all. I was just surprised to read the word because I was like, oh, okay. That's a relief. Yeah.

This interests me and I try to figure out the degree to which it only interests me. But like absolutely, Like you and I have taught, like when we did the smashing pumpkins, right? Like I probably on Bansflane, I probably talked about how like I was a teenager. Like this was my favorite band in the world. Like I can't talk about this objectively. Like I can't, you know, I can't use my rock critic brain or whatever.

And I'm like, I'm curious like just Interpol popped into my head, right? Like that record comes out and I love it. You know, and I've been a rock critic professionally quote unquote for like two months or whatever and I'm trying to assess like, you know, like, why are they wearing suits? Why do they sound like Joy Division? Like, like just the four or five things everyone said about that band. Totally. When they wrote about them in Alt Weekly's, like when that record came out. Like, there's a total difference in how I approached this music, you know? And I, you know, the way that I think about Pearl Jam, who I loved in the 90s is entirely different from the

way I think about like Queens of the Stone Age who I loved in the 2000s. Like I, you know, what I, what this iteration of the podcast is, is me trying to think less with smug critic brain and more with like teenage brain and just sort of reveling in the fact that I was barely more mature in the 2000s than I was in the 90s, despite being, you know, technically an adult in the 2000s. That makes a lot of sense. Yeah, I feel like, I mean, just from an outsider perspective, that your show doesn't really deal in smug rock critic or any kind of,

not that you don't do criticism, but it's not really criticism, right? I mean, you're kind of doing something a little different. It's a different thing. Yeah. Well, like you said, like I think for both of us, you know, night swimming accepted, like it's celebratory, right? Like, I'm not going to trash something. I'm not going to tell you, you know, your favorite song when you were a teenager.

like sucks, right? Like just, you know, that's what I've always said about like finding the joy in like the macarena, you know, now that it's not ubiquitous and it's not in your faith. It's a great song. It's a great song and it's a very strange story. And like now that these are not viral and overexposed anymore, like we can appreciate them more for what they were at the time now that they're not in our faces all the time. Totally.

Okay. Next question is from David Margolis. Do you remember an MTV news segment in 1992 or so that speculated about which city was going to be the quote, Next Seattle, and then profiled basically every city that was in L.A. or New York or Chicago, but it had at least sometimes only two prominent underground bands. I remember Chapel Hill getting a mention for Superchunk and Archers of Love and Cincinnati getting a mention for the ass ponies and the Afghan wigs.

Were there others? Was I as a Cincinnati-in-in? I don't know how to say that. At the time, at the time who was too young to know those bands, taken in by an unreasonable hope that my town, which was half the size of Seattle and zero percent of its cultural relevance, could take over the national creative imagination. Was this a real thing? Did I hallucinate?

I don't remember that specifically, but this person did not hallucinate that because Columbus was also going to be the next year. And I wasn't living, I don't think Cleveland was. when I was a teenager in the Cleveland suburbs, I don't think, like, Trent Resner had left, right? Like, Cleveland had some residual, like, coolness for that reason. But, like, we could not claim nine-inch nails anymore. But I remember Columbus in the mid-90s, like,

gaunt, Howland, Maggie, you know, the Thomas Jefferson Slave Apartments. Like, I agree completely with this person's premise that every place was touted as the next Seattle. The ass ponies are great, by the way. So you definitely did not hallucinate that, and it's very funny that that happened. And it's very funny, of course, that no next Seattle ever emerged. It was New York. Sure, right. It was Brooklyn.

They ignored New York, but then it was the strokes and the IA as an interval. I know I'm a little biased because I'm currently doing indie sleighs, but that kind of is what happened. You're promoting your indie sleighs series, which I respect. I only agreed to come here. in order to do self-promotion. We did contractually say you could tout your podcasts three to five times, I believe. So that's two. The next question is from Hannah.

It's me, Hannah, the Toadies fan. So cool. Totey's rock. I'm still pumped that they were finally mentioned. Here are my questions. What is the most aggressively confident opinion you've ever had about a song that you later discovered was completely wrong? We have kids around the same age, and I'm constantly amazed by their completely unpredictable opinions

about the music I grew up with. What songs did you assume your kids would love that they totally dismiss? And what songs have they unexpectedly fallen in love with? What I've always said about my kids, it's two separate questions. The second question, like, what I always say is they might be giants is by far the band that I love that has imprinted on my children the most. I think that's in part because of the kids' albums that we played them when we were little kids. Like I would have assumed by now that I would have played my kids a ton of the Beatles and they'd

be Beatles fans, at least sort of passively. But like, I don't really think that they are. Like for all the music, there's a big difference I'm finding between like just playing music around the house versus like sitting them down and being like, you're going to listen to this now. This band is called Fuel. This song is called Hemorrhage in my head. This is this real shit. Hemorrhage in my hands. Why is it, is there a parentheses in that? Is you serious? You know what?

Listen, Colin the 2000s. I don't really think you have a leg to stand on here when you're talking about bad punctuation. That's a, that's a plus. That's, I know, I will never speak against parentheses in songs. That's our podcasts. I, I'm, that, that makes me more intrigued by fuel. I, my kids like, weird Al again.

Like, I told him to see Weird Al. Yeah. They got into that band A.J.R. Oh, which... Oh, which... Like a younger, like, weaser adjacent, like, fun songs, fun bouncy songs about, like, mental health

that seem like genuinely sort of stirring and supportive. Like, I dig those guys a lot. But there are... I guess I'm surprised having done a 90s podcast for five years that with the exception of they might be giants, I don't know. Like, they have a vague awareness of like nirvana, but like nothing akin to like active fandom.

And I guess that's my fault. I guess that is a way that I have failed them. But if there was going to be one, then I'm glad it's they might be giants. But there is kind of only one. You haven't played the morphine yet? I've played morphine around them. But I think they've really gotten good at tuning me.

out. Sure. Slash tuning out my music, you know. Yeah. What was the first question from this person again? Because that was good too. What is the most aggressively confident opinion you've ever had about a song that you later discovered was completely wrong?

This reminded me of when we did the grunge draft many years ago. And I think it was Sean Fennessey and Chris Ryan both like sort of very aggressively telling me that actually it was insecticide and I was wrong about the Brevon album title. Yeah, that was me. It was me and Chris Ryan. It was me and Chris Ryan. We attempted to mansplain Nirvana. Insecticide.

To a famous podcast. No, that's fine. It's not insecticide as the problem. It for sure is not. That is one of the little moments of my professional career. Absolutely. I built an entire Lincoln Park episode out of reading the really pissy alternative press review of the first Lincoln Park record where I said that they were like,

Britney Spears or whatever. Like, I, it's that, that's, that's, that's, that's the first thing I always reach for in terms of like a very, I've never been, you know, even in my young smug years, like a very good, like, savage takedown artist. I admire people who do it really well, but I just, I'm, I'm too thoroughly Midwestern and me to do it. But I did, I did make fun of Lincoln Park in alternative press, a magazine to whom Lincoln Park were objectively very important and formative.

And so that was probably, mistakes were probably made there in retrospect. At least you've, at least you, you know, apologize for it. At least you've taken responsibility. Next question is from Emma Forrest, long time listener here since 2020. Not to brag, but I'm pretty sure I listened to the Alanis Morissette episode the week it came out. I love Rob's anecdotes about his youth. And I always think about him and Todd. Oh, Todd.

Driving around Ohio, listening to Nine Inch Nails, before Todd's major betrayal, of course. Just curious, will we ever hear about Todd again? What was he up to in the 2000s? Whatever became of him. Love the show. Please never run out of decades to cover. Yeah, you can't really introduce a main character like that

and then just erase him from the storyline. This woman is right. Where's Todd? Okay, first of all, just to clarify, for those of you unfamiliar with Todd. Todd was my high school friend. I drove around in his Saturn and we listened to his CDs

which consisted almost entirely of nine inch nails tool. Marilyn Manson was a big one. Candlebox when there were girls in the car. Lords of acid at the sort of outside edge of another genre, etc.

And then Todd ended up with my girlfriend at the time. time. And so, and that was the end of that. Do you think Todd is now a member of the Manosphere? Do you think Todd is on some questionable Reddit forums? It's Todd is on Reddit's all the time.

Todd is on 4chan. Todd and I are Facebook friends. He seems to be doing very well. He is married. He and his kids go for hikes and do like just outdoor type activities, you know, skiing, things of that nature. like he builds shit on his property. I think he's got like a very nice like back porch situation.

I could have seen Todd in person over the summer at my 30 year high school reunion, which happened at a bar in my adopted hometown. And I did not go, not for any like pissy reason, but I was just like, this is terrifying to me. But like I saw the Facebook photos afterward of a smiling Todd. you know, surrounded by other classmates who I sort of vaguely remember. But Todd is alive and well. And we are Facebook friends.

We saw each other at bars a couple times in the intervening decades and like hugged it out or whatever. Todd's doing great. Todd will probably come up again in some context that I can't. I don't know what it is now. But like I did not erase Todd from the. public record on purpose. He'll be back somehow. He's flourishing. No one has come to Todd and been like, this man keeps talking about you on this very popular podcast. I believe this is the second Todd mentioned on this podcast. I sort of half wondered if he would ever be aware of this. And if

he were aware of this, would he gravitate the podcast and would he gravitate toward the nine In In In In In In In In Inns Nails episode and what he, like, I don't. I don't believe that he is aware of this at all, and that is probably for the best. I know. I'm kind of jealous. What a full life, Todd must have. My DMs are open, regrettably. The next question is from Not Chester Lemon.

Email subject line, Your Mom. Uncle Rob, how's your mom doing? We miss her. Will she hit one of you two's farewell concerts? Yeah, honestly, that's a great question. What's Barb going to be doing around these U2 farewell concerts? Is you two saying farewell? I didn't know about that.

That was my first reaction and I looked it up and like they're like planning a tour and like there's a vague sense that maybe it's a farewell thing. Like is Larry playing with them? He didn't when I saw them at the sphere, which was like that was a couple of years ago now, but he wasn't this sort of muscular. potentially Danish guy was. I just can't remember if he's dead or Danish. I always get those two mixed up.

Sure. It's all right. Either, you know, that's, they're interchangeable pretty much. So yeah, that was, I,

the email subject line of this really was your mom, which is never not alarming. Right? And I was like, oh, like that I read this. Barb is doing well. I don't think she is not aware

if you two is doing a farewell tour. If they do indeed announce such a thing, she will definitely go and I will hopefully accompany her even if we have to drive to like Chicago. I would assume she went to the sphere. She and my dad went to the sphere and they tried to sneak backstage. Wow. They had tickets for some like kind of backstage pre-show thing, but there were clearly tears of backstage that they were not privy to. And she tried, she kept trying to sneak past one.

security guard who was totally aware of what my mom was trying to do and was sort of amused slash impressed by my mom's rigor in like trying to like like a group would go in who had like better access and she would my mom would try and like sneak into that group sure like I'm part of these people too and like the security guard would be half to like you can't do this and then my dad told me that at some point well my mom is doing this uh Adam Clayton just walks by both of them and my mother does not notice at all. And that's very funny. Because she was so laser focused on her goals.

She was so locked in. Yeah. I'm trying to sneak in with like the edges, actual family members. Mom's doing great. Mom still is very angry about the Mr. Brightside episode where I said Phantom Dick like 200 times. She was really not psyched about that at all.

I don't think you were either. Actually, I don't like it either. I don't care for it. She's doing great. And she at Yasi, she asks about you a lot. She's like, how's Yassi doing? She has the house okay. Like everything, everything is great. She loves you very much. Love Barb. She's doing great. I'm so glad to hear it. Who does? My love.

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Okay, next question is from Andrew Shields in Minneapolis. Number one, if you had to pick a 20-year period of music to listen to for the rest of your life, what 20-year period would you pick? Number two, assuming you're not a, quote, late-in-life tattoo person, if you were to get a tattoo now, what would it be and where on your body would you put it? Number three, are there any artists from the 90s that for one reason or another, you didn't listen to much then, but I've grown to love since. Regarding my previous tattoo question, I realized that my assumption that you're not a tattoo guy was potentially disrespectful. I apologize, but you don't really give up tattoo vibes. Those were two separate emails, and it took me like a weird, I had to like search for tattoos.

Like I had to find the previous email that this person was apologizing for in the subsequent email. is it's a very amusing and confusing process to me i do not have any tattoos this is this does not come as a shock to this person nor to any other people who have ever heard my voice um if i were to get a tattoo it would be something wife or children related like i i don't know what that would be like like like a like my my five-year-old like some drawing of hers at some point just on the bicep or something like if if i would be like a like if i would be like a like a my five-year-old like some drawing of hers at some point just on a bicep or something. Like if I was going to do that,

that's what I would probably do. I do not have any plans at this time because this person is correct about my mentality and just total overall vibe. But like if I were to get a tattoo late in life, it would probably be just family related. I think we should get touches when I come to Columbus, but I get to pick yours.

What should we get? Fuel, yes. Hamridge parentheses. It's the lyrics to hemorrhage. This is in my hands. Why is it called that? Like, what is, what is hemorrhage in my hands? Don't try to burn future podcast material here.

That's right. Save it for the pod. Okay. Save it for the pot. Okay. Okay, well, you have to answer the 20-year period of music and any artists from the 90s that you didn't listen to then, but now you love them. I mean, I'm sort of contractually obligated to say the

90s and either the 80s or the 2000s, which is on the other side. Like it's the 90s either forward or the 90s backward. And that's an interesting. I think you know the answer to that. Do I, it's, I think I would find it harder to give up the 80s than I think. Same. I think I would be like the 2000s can rot in hell. I mean, there we go.

Some great songs from there, but like the cure. or to push mode. You can't be taking it. Approximately 60 plus. Yeah, right. Like Purple Rain, the minute, like, I remember that Purple Rain exists.

It's like, uh, so many Madonna albums. I mean, the 2000s would be rough. There's plenty of things I love. Wait, have you done a Madonna 2000 song?

No. And I don't know if you just totally cleared, like your Madonna coverage was so, comprehensive and definitive that there is no points. It would be like that thing where like they put out two Truman Capote movies in the same year and the second one got like totally wiped out by the Philip Seymour Hoffman one. Like I don't, I'm worried about doing Madonna now just because you nailed it.

It's through your lens. I think people would love to hear you talk about hung up. Although don't tell me as really the jam, I think. But hung up is maybe more interesting. Confessions on a dance floor like. And not just because she just, like, that's a, not just because she just did the sequel to it. But, like, that's the one that really spoke to me. Beautiful Stranger was pretty, yeah.

Beautiful Stranger is one of the best songs that's ever been made in the history of time. Yeah, that's pretty good. That's 1999, though, so you don't have to worry about it. Okay. Next. Okay. Next question. Oh, wait.

Sorry. There's still one more from this. This man really shoehorned in three here. any artist in the 90s that you didn't listen to much then, but you have grown to love. I mean, there's tons of them, right? Like, again, like, being like a very alt-rock-minded kid in real time, like I was not really listening to Selena at the time.

Like, country music. Like, Garth Brooks would be maybe a classic example of someone like I was aware of who I thought lived in an entire different solar system. than I did. And it is only in retrospect, you know, that I can connect him, you know, both to the 90s and to like the dad rock of the 80s, the Bob Seekers of the world. Right. And so like Shania Twain, like same same thing. So like any genre, kind of any genre that wasn't like alternative rock, you know, I was not as intensely into or college rock, I guess, in the late 90s when I was in college. Like I definitely started from that base. And

been like catching up on virtually everything else since that. Totally. Totally. That's called growth. Okay. This question from Dan, this week I learned that Peter Bjorn and John is three people. This is why what you do is important. Honest to God, I always assumed it was a duo.

A man named Peter Bjorn and a man named John, like the captain and Teneal, not like Peter, Paul and Mary. Gonna blame it on the lack of comma. It's true. commas are important. Do you have any dramatic long-held misunderstandings of a band name, song, or lyric? Enough people, the first, like half a dozen people were like, I thought Peter Bjorn and John were two people. And the first time I was like, is this a bits? But it's like, this is apparently a fairly widely held misconception that is indeed based. There should be a comma. There should totally be a

comma. And I, you know, it's the each shoots and leaves thing just with Swedish dudes. And like, I totally, I totally respect people who didn't know. It was three people. I mean, the classic example that I talked about long ago at some point was Eddie Muddy's Take Me Home Tonight when they, when Ronnie Spector, like, Eddie Muddy is trying to get a girl to go home with him. And then Ronnie Spector shows up and sings, be my little baby. But I thought she was singing feed. my little baby, F-E-E-D, because I thought that the girl went home with Eddie Money, got pregnant, and then returned to Eddie Money nine months later with a newborn baby saying feed my little, exactly. That is precisely what I thought when I was eight years old and attending Sacred Heart Elementary

School in Eureka, Missouri. I had a different, a slightly different worldview at that time and feed my little baby. is probably the all-time misconception. More recently, I said it in the Feist episode, but I thought in one, two, three, four, Feist sings, oh, teenage hoes with tears in their eyes. And I was like, that's a really weird image. And that is, in fact, not at all. Really poetic.

I love that lyric. I'd like to think that it is. I agree with you completely that my embarrassing mishearing of Feist is actually really poetic and, like, cool and sophisticated. Thank you for saying that. What is she actually saying? Teenage hopes. Oh, teenage hope.

Like, yeah, H-O-P, yeah, yeah, it's not, it's not hose. It's a missed opportunity on FISA, to be honest. That's right, yeah. Okay. Billy from Sincereo, Ohio, neighbors. I'm assuming that you read last year's New Yorker article, how music criticism lost its edge. You know what my dad says,

that when you make an assumption, you make an ass out of you and me. I think it's actually when you assume. Your dad invented that phrase. Yeah, yeah. Well, I don't know if he invented it because he's English as a second language, so probably couldn't have invented it,

but he certainly took it upon as his own to dole out to me as wisdom many times as a youth. Sure. So regarding the main theme of that piece, I know in today's world, we need every tiny speck of goodness we can find. I do. I feel it. But can't you ever bring yourself to say, this artist's music absolutely sucks? You'll drop in the designation rude once in a while to be diplomatic,

but you must have these feelings. Will you ever share them when critically appropriate? Because come on, man, they have been. Love the show. Damn, he say you're not mean enough. That's right. When your dad assumed that you needed to go to business school, I think he was making an ass out of, yeah, okay. And now I have, he made me take my degree the other day, finally. Now it's sitting in my car in the back seat. Yeah, if you want to. Oh, really?

Are you going to, you're going to display that? You're going to hang that in your podcast, in your home podcast studio as part of your setup? No. Okay. Um, okay. Um, what's your, what's your? I'd like to know what this person.

Yeah. I'd like to know what, who specifically this person is thinking of when he's like, don't you know that they suck, right? Like I don't know if that's wolf grade or what. Well, it's like you were saying, like I do think the celebratory elements is very important. I don't think there's any point on shitting on any of this stuff now. But I do have to say, I don't know if this is because I am weak-willed or I have mellowed or I am no longer smug or whatever.

But I objectively actively do not dislike many songs. I'm trying to think like when people ask me like what's the worst song of the 90s I just say Cotton Eye Joe which is not untrue right because it was like Swedish people clowning on cotton

like it's yeah yeah it's I don't care for that song that's there was a song it was like English dudes I forget the name of the band but it was like

once I was seven years old my mama told me Vance Joy is that sound right that I don't think it's them. It's always playing in a Starbucks every time you go into the Starbucks. That song is like always on.

That song really upset me in real time. But I don't dislike much. And so I wouldn't say that I am acting. Lucas Graham. Sorry to Vanstoy. You know it was a name. Right. No, you,

yeah, sorry. Oh, Vanstoy has that really good song, Rip Tide. That song is really good. Oh, okay. Okay. And I'm sorry to Lucas Graham. That's a band that sounds like a person's situation, I think. But like, there are very few songs that I actively viscerally dislike.

And I know that that makes me like a bad critic on some level. Like you have to dislike things. And you have to say that you dislike things. Like establishing the poles of your taste, you know, and your point of view. Like, again, like, I admire people and wish almost that I could sometimes be like, the takedown artists like panning, you know, of post Malone or whoever type thing. But it's just, it's not my mentality and it's almost weird to me that I don't actively dislike things.

And so I can't think of an example of when I have looked into this camera and like lied about liking or not disliking something. Do you know what I mean? You're not a liar. Does this happen to you? No. Like I remember when you were doing the primis episode. Yeah. Unfortunately, it's pretty obvious when I don't like something.

Yeah. As much as I try my darn tuteness to be neutral about it. I don't think that's unfortunate, though. Like, I think that, again, I think that's good. I think that's almost necessary to some degree. I think there's a difference, though, between what this person is saying and what we do sometimes. Like, this is why I always, like, feel like music criticism is a little, like, slippery for me. except for like some of the goats that do it.

Like, if I don't like it, doesn't mean it's bad. Do you know what I mean? Exactly. Like, and if. I love that for you is a totally valid perspective. Yeah. Are there songs that objectively suck? I get, like on what basis, you know?

Like, for example, I love that song by the calling, wherever you may go. Do you know that song? Do you know that song? Then I would. I go away. And I tried to get my friend Blanchelle to cover it, and she laughed in my face. He thought it was a garbage and terrible song.

And the thing is... Oh, man, that would be good, though. She would nail that. Thank you. I can totally see that. Thank you. And I think she could make it very cool. But anyways, that's neither here nor there.

There we go. But the point is, I... Her feelings are valid. I'm sure to many people, that song sucks ass. But I love that song. I listen to it multiple times a week lately. I don't know what's going on. Perhaps I need a walness check.

but to me, you are beautiful, the calling wherever you will go. And also, do you, I mean, I don't cover, if a song is so repellent to me, I mean, I don't do songs as much as you do songs. I do mostly artists. Right. But for example, an artist is absolutely repellent to me,

except for maybe in the beginning when I didn't think I had a choice. I just kind of sidestep them because I'm like, I don't want, I don't want to spend three hours talking about some artists I don't like. Eight hours, yeah, but yes. Yeah, eight hours sometimes. Certainly not you.

Yeah. And like the other part of this question is like that New Yorker article was about like, is, is criticism sort of defanged now or critics too nice or whatever? And like the problem with criticism right now are there so few places to do it, right? Like it doesn't have the influence that it used to have because of the internet, et cetera, et cetera. But like there are just dismayingly few full-time critic jobs right now. And so it doesn't matter.

It's way less a question of like critics are meaner now or critics are not mean enough. It's like critics are not able to get paid, you know, to be mean or not mean. Yeah. Well, I mean, also things have changed. I mean, pitchfork used to be like, this song is what the Holocaust sounds like or whatever. Like here's a picture of a monkey throwing shit and there's zero points. Keying in its own mouth. Shout out.

Yeah. They don't do that anymore. So, and maybe that's a good thing. They don't know. I don't know. I don't know. Okay. Let's go to the next question. Thomas.

This is from Thomas. Hello, Rob. Maybe also probably Yossi. Oh, my God, good job, Thomas. What chain fast casual restaurant best encapsulates this era of music? Ruby Tuesdays, Chili's, Outback Steakhouse, listeners want to know. I'm going to need your help with this. Like, what do I mean when I say I think of?

the Olive Garden as the 2000s chain restaurant. Like what like Chili's? Chili's is really 90s to me. Yeah. Is it 90s? Okay. You don't think. Dr. Jerry Taco loves chilis.

I feel like cheesecake factory is very 2000s. Oh, yeah, that's, yes, yes. Right? Too big a menu. Totally. Too big a menu. Too much going on. The cheesecake factory was like the death of a monocultural.

Yeah. Oh, man. It's like, yeah, how do you even explain the decor of, like, it was sort of weirdly palatial? It looks like a rich Persian person's house. Do you know what I mean? There we go. I do. I know, in fact, exactly what you mean.

Shades of like, top and mauve and columns. Right. Yes. And some, like, actually really cool, weird, like, art that I feel like someone messaged me at their aunt did it. And I was like, that's so cool. But yeah, I said it's very cool. Cheesecake Factory feels very 2000s to me, and they are also kind of,

if you listen closely enough, always playing that kind of music. Like, you will hear wherever you may go, if I could, while you're eating your like avocado spring rolls or whatever. Chipotle also occurs to me, like I think about the metal sculptures on the walls. Totally.

At Chipotle, like I really, I associate that with early 2000s. you know, both rock is back and also the nickelback type rock. Absolutely. That rock was back to vanquish. You know, like I think Chipotle really encapsulated both of those vibes at the same time, you know, as I ate my burrito. That's really good. The cheesecake factory is such the perfect answer for that.

The other Friday night, I really wanted Chipotle and I went, I had, the app was not working for delivery. So I went there because I'm a really brave person. and then I literally stood in the line was so long and I stood in line for potentially 30 Friday night Rob I was standing in line on a Friday night Chipotle is no joke it was so Los Angeles it was so sad I felt really sad I was like what roads did I go down that have led me to spending my Friday night go wrong my sadness bowl yes right right but it was rocking recognized in Chipotle. No, thank the fucking good sweet Jesus Lord. Imagine. Were you bummed about that or not bummed at all?

In my sweatpants on a Friday night at the Chipotle in line, the 70th person in line to get my. Yeah. Burrito bowl with a side of. That's a tough. Because I like the best of both worlds. Okay. Next question is from Patty. When I started listening to the podcast back in 2020, not long after I moved cities,

I remember vividly that the first episode took me one and a half laps of my new rental park to listen to. Today, the podcast is more of a walk across the city in duration. Features ads and more Spotify's synergy as visualized as prompted a book is a valuable anchor of many people's midweek around the world, hello from Glasgow, BTW, to say nothing of the fact that it's still going strong six years later.

So my question is this. Just before you write, oh, just before your first episode went online, what would have surprised you the most to hear from the future, that the podcast would triple an episode duration, the amount of synergy, the cameras, the spinoffs, the meaningfulness it has in people's lives

and pop culture generally or the longevity? That's a fantastic question. I think all of that was pretty shocking. I think I would be obligated to start. It's not tripled. It is quintupled. I'm trying to, I always reference how long the you ought to know, like episode number one, the script was like 2,000 words.

So it's fully five times longer now than it was Amanda Dobbins was a guest, actually. The length is the most harrowing, is the most harrowing, shocking thing. The fact that I'm still doing this and the fact that people are still listening to me and that anybody digs this show at all, let alone in Glasgow, is amazing and delightful to me. and as stirring to me as the increased length is disturbing to me. All of it is pretty shocking and amazing. The book, like, yeah. I think, don't you think you would have written a book regardless? You're a writer.

You would think that, wouldn't you? But I was, like, I was not, I wasn't writing it, man. Like, I thought, like, I'm going to write a book someday and then I would continue to not write it. Like, there is no guarantee that I would ever actually have published a book, if not for this show. And so it's, despite thinking the whole time that a book would be like the apex of the whole thing, like I was nowhere close to figuring out how to actually publish one before this show came along. So that would be another reason to be very grateful. Can I add a, can I add a follow up question? Please.

Has this show given you more or taken more away from you? Yeah, yeah. That's a good. That one came from the heart, Yasi. I'm going to ask you to answer that as well when I am done. No, it is hard to say, right? It is. It's hard to say. It takes too long to write these scripts now. They need to be shorter slash less arduous. but I am genuinely shocked when I started. I don't think I thought I was actually going to get to 60. There is no planet on which I would have thought I would get to 120 episodes, let alone like a spin-off, right? Like it is, again, pleasantly shocking to me that I am still doing this

and still genuinely enjoying doing it. Totally. Like it's very, you know, it's very exhausting at times. But like, as I've said a billion times, like to still have a job in rock criticism, you know, in any capacity in 2026 is amazing and delightful and humbling. And yeah. Amen, brother. What about you, though? I feel, I mean, I don't, I don't want to minimize parenthood, but I kind of feel like maybe this is what people mean, when people mean, you know, about having children where it is both like, incredible.

difficult in taxing, but also incredibly fulfilling. No, there's some parallels there. You don't have to yell at your podcast to, like, get off their phone. I do sometimes. Et cetera, but, yeah, there you go. I yell at myself to get off my phone and get to work. I yell at you to get off, yes, to get off Reddit, but, yes. You know, we are shaping minds and hearts, so.

I would like to, I hope so. Okay. This is from Frank. Hi, Rob, on a previous mailbag episode, a listener asked, why do you live in Ohio, which, given the dickish phrasing, did not earn a response. Good on you. But I'd like to reframe the question. As a music journalist, do you feel like you're at a disadvantage by not living in a major metro area

where there are presumably more frequent and varied live performances? Or in 2026, the entire universe of recorded music at your fingertips, does it just not matter anymore? How would your current work be different, if at all, if you really really, living in New York, L.A. or San Francisco. Thank you, as always. I'd have to politely disagree. Why do you live in Ohio is still the funniest question I have ever been asked in any context personally or professional ever in my life. And I love it. I thought I said something. I don't think I was like, I refused to answer. Like, I said something, but I don't remember what I said. It was a little dickish, but I loved it very much.

here is where being a washed 48-year-old father of three really pays off because it doesn't fucking matter where I live because I don't if I lived in Los Angeles or New York City I would not be able to go out with anywhere near the capacity to like benefit from being in a cultural center right like as I sit here I can I can go see Phoebe Bridgers tomorrow and Haley Williams the next day in Cincinnati, but like orchestrating that, like with my wife and like all the kids that we have to drive to various places.

Like I don't think that's going to happen purely for logistical reasons. So it's like it's the great thing about living at Ohio is that it doesn't matter that it's Ohio because I am like a lame washed dad. Yeah. And so even if I was living in like Berlin, like there would be no real difference to my life whatsoever.

Other than I don't know if they have like Target in Berlin. And that's a good answer. Also, I mean, I don't know. It's a music journalist aspect, you know. I mean, do you don't write about live music? Not very often at this point. Like, it's, yeah, it's, yeah, and that's fine. I don't want to review concerts anymore.

Yeah. And I'm very grateful to not be doing that. Okay. James says, Rob, first time, long time. If you were to do a song from the band Live, what would you choose? And what do you feel their legacy is, if any. Love what you do in which I had thought of at first. Had your musical knowledge, had your height, 5'9, Wompfut 9, Womp.

5'9 is not bad, but the answer is lightning crashes. That's your... I mean, I guess you kind of have to. That's it, isn't it? I guess you have to. I guess you have to. I feel it. I don't even know.

Her placenta falls. To the flow. That's right. Yeah. The placenta alone, I think. Edges up. Like, what is the number two most culturally resonant lives? Is it?

Is it I alone or all over you? Yeah. All over you. Right. But like lightning crashes. Yeah, I know. Lightning crashes is the goat. That's true. Lightning crashes.

It's such a bizarre song. Such a scary. It's extremely weird. Stressful song. But that's like a weird. saga, right? Because that's one of the deals where like they're fighting. Yeah, it's bad news bear. Ed Kowalach. It's bad news bears. Ed, thank you for pronouncing his name correctly. The rest of the band is fighting with him.

They're sort of the journey of the 90s in that respect. Isn't Journey like a ship of Theseus situation now where like how many original members of Journey are left and like who gets to say their journey? There's all sorts of weird shit going on. their singer like multiple times like right like legal within legal bounds but i think live just sort of i'm not totally sure but i feel like they sort of fell apart and hate each other and then like the remaining members of live tried to go on tour with another singer and ed qualichick was like absolutely the fuck not you won't i i believe this is what happened i'm not a scholar of the legal dramas of uh the selling the drama it's bad news bears and it's a use of the legal parlance the live situation is bad

news bears, which of course only makes it more valid as a podcast subject. I mean, I would love to hear you break down. Keep that in mind. Lightning crashes, TBQH. I would probably love to do that. And if I did that, it would, we would, I would be doing that with you, ideally. Who else could talk about the placenta is falling to the floor? Literally nobody.

Okay. Ryan says, since you and Yossi frequently guests on each other's podcasts, I have a quick question if you were to switch roles. Number one, what is an artist Yossi hasn't covered yet that you would want to cover? And number two, if Yossi is available to answer, what is a song from either the 90s or the 90s, colon the 2000s, okay, the 90s or 90s the colon 2000s,

that you didn't cover, but she would. You fall away. Bar, bar, bar, bar, bar, bar. I mean, what I bring up, My dream bands playing episode, and I mention it to you and you're like, you're insane, we could never do that. And you're correct is guided by voices, right? Like that's sort of the white whale.

Okay. I hope so because I would love to do it. It's like impossible. Like it's hilariously impossible. You will be part of it. I've said this before. I'll say it again. Right.

Right. That's right. That's right. We're doing a 24-hour telethon style. Yes. Twitch streamed podcast in which I am joined by multiple guests. Yeah. Obscure.

Okay. I will be delighted to be part of that process. I'd like to be in like the isolation drills do the collapse, like semi-failed sellout early 2000s, late 90s era of guided by voices. That would probably land you at like one in the morning, which is perfect. There we go. Is that prime time or like explicitly not prime time that like you're strategically like you're you're saving like Steve Hayden, you know, for like the crucial nine o'clock hour or whatever. It reminds me of when Courtney Love did 24 hours of love on MTV. That's kind of the vibe I'm going for.

That's exactly. Didn't Katie Perry do something similar and it was like extremely bizarre and off putting? Yeah. I don't know about that. I don't know about that. Okay. That's fine. stay not knowing about it. I guess besides hemorrhage,

well, I would have wanted to do shimmer. If we're just like saying whatever we would have wanted our heart of hearts. That's right. That was the other fuel song I was trying to think of. Shimmer is really the banger. I was just trying to kind of get in it on the 2000. What I really wanted to do, we already did, which was glycerin by Bush because you didn't cover it the first time.

Yes. So I feel. Did you go see fuel? And that's what caused your fuel resurgence? No. Okay. I've just always really liked those couple of songs. Okay. I thought there was, yeah, I thought there was some explicit catalysts that you were like, Few are the greatest band ever, but you've always believed that.

I don't think you should really put words in my mouth like that that. I said that fuel is the greatest band ever because I didn't say that. I didn't say that. Point taken. I didn't say that. Brett Scallions has left the band. No, I just like, as I do, just fell down. a weird, you know, cahole one night.

Next thing you know, she's listening to shimmer on repeat. Being able to name a member of fuel is like an incredibly impressive professional. It happened because I fell in this kale hole and I was like, who the fuck is this man in the Spotify picture? I don't remember that. I mean, where's the blonde man with the hair and the earrings? And then I went Google and found out his name was Brett Scalions and he left the man. And he has a solo career.

Brett Scalions. Well, good for him. Okay. John from Portland. Loving the pod. The Spoon episode made me remember a time in 2009 or 10. I live in Portland and was working downtown. I occasionally would hit the Chipotle Mexican Grill, full government name, on Southwest Yam Hill for lunch for a carnitas burrito bowl.

Don't judge me. As I sat down, having a carnitas brittable, this is not a judgment. I'm just simply saying that having a carnitas brittable in the middle of a workday and then going back to work is so insane. You're not fucking doing jack shit at work. Yeah. That's like time to fire up. Mindcraft. There's no five-hour energy going to help you with that.

All this might not be that odd or interesting given he lived in Portland at the time. Oh, sorry, I skipped the thing. As I sat down, I noticed that right next to me was Britt Daniel, who was about a quarter done with his burrito. All this might not be that odd or interesting given that he lived in Portland at a time. Rock stars also enjoy a fast, casual, economical meal. As I started eating, I noticed that Britt had been writing on a pad of paper and had three or four books on his table. one of them being a thesaurus. I know there is a rock and roll cliche

of a songwriter and a piano tapping on a memorable hook and then scribbling lyrics on a bar napkin about a lover, but hearing the call of the road. But I love the image of Britt chewing on his burrito and reaching to the thesaurus

trying to think of rhymes for reverse, terse, nurse, curse, worse, purse. I think I might have witnessed a moment of artistry, the creation of written in reverse. The meaning of that song does take on a different vibe

if you think he is talking about his burrito instead of a relationship. What story behind the song do you like the most? That was a lot. That was like very 60 songs that I played in the 90s cool in the 2000s structure, like a very big, heavy up top thing. Let me tell you about my carnitas bowl. Yes.

I just, I have to say I was. Okay, number one, Brit Daniel could be standing in front of me right now, and I wouldn't know about it. Do you know, like he could be in, I couldn't pick him out of a lineup. Okay. All right. So not, that's not a disrespect to Britt Daniel. It's just spoon weren't one of those like monoculture MTV bands.

Not the fuel. No, they weren't. Yes, that's true. Bringing a stack of books and a thesaurus to a Chipotle Mexican grow is so insane. It matters very much to me whether they were stacked on the table or they were all open to a different page on the table. Same. Same. This tableau of Britt Daniel, who I would recognize, I'd like to think, with like a three-quarter

remaining burrito, like, and like he's got a thesaurus here and he's got like a like a Shakespeare thing over here. Like I just this, this image was very striking and amusing to me, I have to say. What do you think happened that day? Somebody better call a hearse is how I feel when I go after I eat Chipotle. And so I just respected this question. cleaning lady was at his house. He had to vacate the premises. That's right. Yeah. It's like, I know I'll go to Chipotle. I'm going to go to the Chipotle on Yam Hill. Yeah. I'm really hung up on this whole situation. Should I bring my laptop to Chipotle to research with my all my books and open them up?

You should make that your spot. Like this, oh, that's Yossi's table. Oh, yeah. We saw we saw Yassi's salik at the, yeah. Chipotle with her sonic youth books spread across the table hard at work. work. I guess you have a... Great indie sleeves band, Sonic U. Do you have a story behind a song that you like the most? No, I have no stories behind songs. Yeah, that's what I'm saying.

It's just I bow down to Britt Daniels three quarters remaining burrito. This is the last question, you guys. Sylvia K. Rob, are you scared of Swifties? But seriously, does the presence of active online fan bases like Swifties or the Beehive change your approach? to covering artists from the aughts versus the 90s. Famously, you're scared of a lot of things,

which we've covered on bandswain. I am. Yeah. Yes, that's true. I am afraid of horror movies, PJ Harvey songs. Some album covers. In various other things.

Yeah. Some album covers, for sure, Kiss, album covers in particular, very frightening. When I was, when my job consisted more of reviewing new Taylor Swift records, like at midnight. You were more scared of that. Including midnights, if I recall correctly. I was, but like,

I don't think that I was as prominent. I was not a prominent enough critic for anyone to give a shit if I'm being totally honest, right? Like, and it's, I guess I was content with flying under the radar. Like, I don't want any part of the Nicki Minaj online community.

Like, I think that's a pretty universal sentiment at this point. I don't think that, like, obviously Taylor, is a 2000s artist. Nikki is technically, I guess, very,

very late, but like, you know, Drake, like it's, it's interesting the people who sneak in in, in like 2009,

you know, who could technically work. But I, I can't say that I am particularly scared, because again, I'm on record as apparently not disliking or talking shit. Like, nobody's going to get mad at me

because I called somebody rude, hopefully. And if that's, the rudest that I am personally, then like, I hope that I am never targeted by the beehive, but I think that I am within the bounds of civil discourse, you know, and I'm still under the radar enough where I don't think I'm going to have to worry about that. But of course, I'm going to regret saying that into a microphone. What's your favorite Taylor's song? I have a false sense of security. There's, it's somebody,

else's question was what's a Metallica song that you would want Taylor Swift to cover? And was it Taylor Swift song that you would want Metallica to cover? I thought we don't have to do that question, but the answer is Dear John. I think that is both my favorite Taylor Swift song and the Taylor Swift song I would most like to hear a Metallica cover. I used to say all too well, but I think all too well is pretty overexposed. Like that's that's like a lame answer to favorite Taylor Swift song at this point. Mirror ball is up there. Miraball is really good. Folklore. What about you? What's your favorite Taylor-Sissa? You know what? To be honest, I'm like really a fearless girlie. It might be like enchanted. No, I don't think enchanted is on fearless. I think it's maybe like,

no, that's on speak now. White horse or forever and always? Forever and always, of course. Okay, Rob, thank you for having me. Thank you for doing this. Thank you so much. There's no one I would rather have done this with. I really appreciate your time. Very much. This was fantastic. Thank you to everyone who sent in questions. We did not get to all of them and we will ruminate on what to do about that. If we feel like there is any sort of clamor for a part two to this, then maybe we will do this. We will think about it. But I have all your questions and I will answer them somehow, someday. than the last, however long years ago the last mailbag was. I think we'll do another one of these sooner than that now. But thank you.