60 Songs That Explain the '90s - Billy Ray Cyrus—“Achy Breaky Heart”

Episode Date: October 13, 2021

Rob explores Billy Ray Cyrus’s smash hit “Achy Breaky Heart” by discussing the new traditionalist movement in country music and how it affected Cyrus’s career. This episode was originally produced as a Music and Talk show available exclusively on Spotify. Find the full song on Spotify or wherever you get your music. Host: Rob Harvilla Guest: Holly Gleason Producers: Isaac Lee and Justin Sayles Learn more about your ad choices. Visit podcastchoices.com/adchoices

Alan Jackson water skis while wearing jeans in the video for Chattahoochee. Well, way down yonder on a Chattahoochee, it gets hotter than a hoochie-coochie. Alan Jackson rhymes Chattahoochee with Hoochie-Coochee. in the song Chattahoochee. We laid rubber on the Georgia asphalt. We got a little crazy, but we never got caught. You, listening to my voice right now, are having a crazier time than any of the other people depicted in the video for Chattahooch. It doesn't matter what you're doing.

You mowing the lawn? Crazier. Folding laundry? Crazier. I'm not complaining. Quite a winsomely wholesome video. Chattahoochee. Even Alan Jackson himself. When not water skiing while wearing jeans, mostly kicks back in a rocking chair, rocking a number 34 Dallas Cowboys jersey and petting a dog. Song came out in 1992. Running back named Tommy Agugee was number 34 on the Cowboys in 92, but he averaged exactly one carry a game, mostly played special. teams. No, I'm pretty sure Allen's rocking a vintage Herschel Walker.

Jersey Herschel Walker played for the Cowboys from 86 to 89. Two Pro Bowls, traded to the Vikings in 89, worst trade in NFL history. 18 players and draft picks involved. Total fiasco. Herschel jumped from the Vikings to the Eagles, still number 34. He rushed for

1,070 yards and eight touchdowns for the Eagles in 1992. That season, the Cowboys won the Super Bowl. Thanks to all those draft picks. Garth Brooks sang the national anthem. I'm trying to be thorough. Sorry, Chattahoochee video also depicted in the Chattahoochee video, four winsomely doofy shirtless gentlemen also wearing jeans or cut-off shorts, jovially pumping their fists as their jacked-up white pickup truck barrels into what I will

contextually assume is the Chattahoochee River, which runs along the border between Alabama and Alan Jackson's beloved home state of Georgia. Later, though, shirtless fellas stop in the middle of the road to feed a turtle. It's crazy. One of the fellas does kiss a girl, but it's just a pecker too. Chase, this is 1992. It's a simpler time. In the second verse of the song, Chattahoochee, Alan himself goes on a date. Well, we fogged up the windows in my house. She wasn't ready. So I settled for a burger and a grape snow cone. I dropped her all furly, but I didn't go home. Quite winsome. It's the grape snow cone that does it for me. I can picture the precise unnatural shade of purple as that

grape snow cone drips all over the seats of his old Chevy. Key to an all-time classic country song. Any era, any degree of wholesomeness is it's got to have at least one perfect lyrical image, something relatable, something mundane, even transformed into something magical. Here's that line on Chattahoochee. That's it. Perfect. Chattahoochee, all-time classic. Pyrimit of Cairns in the pale moonlight. Something mundane transformed into something magical. For two minutes and 28 seconds, that moonlit pyramid of cans is the eighth wonder of the world. That's country music to me. Doesn't matter what era. Doesn't matter how wholesome. Quite frankly, it doesn't matter how quote-unquote country it is or how country somebody else thinks it is. Alan Jackson's first major label album here in the real World came out in 1990. He was already in his 30s, which intensified, I'd argue, his countryness, his authenticity. Look at this cover. He's got the white cowboy hat. He's got the majestic, flowing blonde hair. He's got the stash. He looks like a white lion. He looks like he's rodeeing

four white lion. He's got the acoustic guitar. He's leaning against a barn. There's a pickup truck in the background. This dude's country as hell. Third song is called Blue Blooded Woman. It's about her. He's in love with a blue-blooded woman. She's into caviar, silks, Sacks Fifth Avenue, so on and so forth. Alan, on the other hand, well, I lived my life in Walmart fashion, and I like my sushi southern bride. And yet they still get along. She loves the violin, I love the fiddle.

That's a great line. Alan Jackson's the real deal. I was reading this book about Nashville and the country music industry. called Dreaming Out Loud by Bruce Filer and the first time Alan Jackson comes up in passing. It's to point out approvingly that even though he's a country superstar now, Alan Jackson still likes bologna sandwiches and still has a red velvet cake backstage at all his concerts. Alan Jackson put out a song called I Still Like Bologna in 2008. I'm sorry, but do you want to hear that real quick? I do.

That is exactly what I expected, to be honest with you. And that's why I love Alan Jackson. Pretty much everyone does and always has. Another book I heartily recommend just came out. It's fantastic is Kelifacenna's major labels, a history of popular music in seven genres. Country music's one of them. And he writes about how Alan Jackson was one of the new traditionalists

or neo-traditionalists, part of a fresh wave of country stars in the age. and early 90s, who explicitly sought to make country music country again. George Strait, Randy Travis, Reba McIntyre. Garth Brooks got way too huge in a stadium rock sense to qualify as traditional for very long, but him too at first. In 1990, Garth Brooks speaking mostly as a disappointed listener at this point, he said, I think we've strayed away from country and got more into pop.

Just for the record, I would love to talk about him at great length on this show. day, but the Garth Brooks catalog is not on Spotify. But the new traditionalists also got razzed for not being country enough. When Alan Jackson was starting out, somebody called him Merle Haggard on milk. Milk, to be fair, is pretty country. Obviously, depending on where you got the milk, it's just that whiskey, for example, is country er. You know where I read that, though, in an Alan Jackson interview from May 2021, where he talked about how modern country music isn't country enough. He said,

country music is gone and it's not coming back. It's like the 1980s again. Circle of Life. Everyone complains about this. Everyone complains about everyone else. Countryer than thou. Alan Jackson put out a song called Gone Country in 1994

sassing coastal elites for carpet bagging as wannabe country stars. Gentle sass as this sort of thing goes, but nonetheless. A new kind of suit. That's a good line. How about some less gentle sass, though?

In 1975, the country singer Charlie Rich, the Silver Fox. Charlie presented the award for Entertainer of the Year at the 1975 CMA Awards, Country Music Association Awards, the country Grammys, basically. Biggest award of the night, Entertainer of the Year, John Denver won. Charlie Rich felt that John Denver was not country enough. It was too pop to win a big country award. So when Charlie opened the envelope to announce entertainer of the year before he declared John Denver the winner, he pulled out a lighter and lit the envelope on fire.

Famous award show moment in the country music authenticity wars. But I'd like to talk today about another famous, sassy award show moment. So Travis Tritt, another big revivalist type country star like Alan Jackson, Travis's first major label album came out in 1990. It was called Country Club. It's a little joke. Travis likes baloney too, I think. In 1991, Travis had a huge hit with a song called Here's a Quarter, Call Someone Who Cares. Here's a quarter, parentheses, call someone who cares, close parentheses. It's a breakup song, a post-breakup song. It's a We Are Never Ever Getting Back Together song. It goes like this. And you say you'd be happy if you could just come back home.

Well, here's a quarter. Call someone who cares. So Travis Trint was also quite concerned about the state of country music in 1992. He's also concerned about the state of country music right now. He's on Twitter right now touting his latest single called They Don't Make Them Like That No More. See if you can guess what they don't make like that no more. But Travis Trint touched off a legitimate feud in 1992 when he did. talked shit about the single biggest country song of 1992. The apex of country, the apex of

country music as pop music, or pop music as country music, or both. Travis was not a fan of this particular song. Travis called this particular song frivolous. Travis said this particular song doesn't really make much of a statement. And Travis derided the wildly popular video for this particular song as an ass-wiggling contest. What song, you ask? Why, it's the song that won the award for favorite country song at the 1993 American Music Awards. The American Music Awards are the trash Grammys. Basically, it's a boondoggle. They make the Golden Globes look like the Nobel Peace Prize. Don't get involved. Who presented the award for favorite country song at the 1993 American Music Awards, you ask.

Motley Crew. Why not? They looked thrilled to be there. As you can imagine, thank God nobody had a lighter. Okay, fellas, favorite country song, Motley Crew, let's do this. The envelope, please. And the winner is achy-breaking heart.

And there he stood. Billy Ray Cyrus, the man who brought the world the single biggest country song of 1992, Aaky Braky Heart, from Billy Ray's debut album, Some Gave All, one of the best-selling albums of 1992 across all of pop music. Billy is wearing a tuxedo shirt and jacket whose lapels appear to be leather or vinyl. I'm out of my element, but then again, so is he. Great bow tie, though. Actually, Billy is wearing a tuxedo jacket.

jacket, et cetera, and jeans. Business up top, party down below. Hell, he might be wearing water skis. His mullet is impeccable. He is victorious, loquacious, magnanimous. Tonight, this award means more to me than any award that I've received yet, because this award is from you, the fans. You people have made this happen.

He sounds like Bill Clinton. Holy moly, had you made this connection? Have you ever seen Billy Ray Cyrus and Bill Clinton in the same room? Ah, but wait, Billy Ray is victorious and magnanimous, but also pugnacious. I want to tell you something, there have been those people, perhaps due to paranoia or insecurities, or perhaps they consider their self as self-proclaimed critic. Uh-oh. It appears that Billy Ray Cyrus has a message for the haters.

But tonight this award is from you, the fans, as an eye, and as far as I'm concerned, to those people who don't like Akey Breaky Heart, here's a quarter cause someone who cares. Yes. Yes, God bless this man for cutting a fucking pro wrestling promo during an acceptance speech at the American Music Awards, pretending to slam a quarter down on the podium while flanked by fucking Motley Crew and thereby legitimizing, thereby for 90 seconds justifying the existence of the American Music Awards, trash award show. In 1992, they gave you an American Music Award if you subscribed to Sports Illustrated.

But no, no, Billy Ray Cyrus earned this one. Don't tell my heart, my heck and breaking heart, I just don't think he'd understand. My name is Rob Harvilla. This is 60 songs that explain the 90s, and this is happening. And if you tell my heart, my mind. Eggie-Berkey heart, he might blow up. Real quick, the premise of this song is that Billy Ray Cyrus's heart is a separate entity. He, the heart is gendered, his heart is canonically male. He, meaning the heart, exists independent of the rest of Billy Ray Cyrus's body.

And as such is not necessarily aware of what's happening to the rest of Billy Ray Cyrus, up to and including Billy Ray's lady friend dumping him. So in this song, the rest of Billy Ray's side. Cyrus, or just his mouth, I guess. A separate faction within Billy Ray Cyrus implores his lady friend who dumped him to not inform his heart about this dumping, lest his heart blow up and kill the rest of Billy Ray Cyrus. That's the premise of this song. That sound reasonable to you? Yeah. All right. Akey, breaky heart was written by a gentleman named Don Von Tress, somewhat of a silver fox himself. Don, if I may be so bold, Don was a Vietnam vet. Helicopter pilot flew 140 combat missions

for the army. Afterward, he settled with his wife and two kids in Cyprus in Tennessee. He wrote songs on the side. This song was Don's first big success. I don't mean this ugly, but it was also Don's last big success. No shame in that. You write a song this big, this colossal, this lucrative, and you ain't got to write another one. Don once said he was working on Aiki Breast. Heard and he showed it to his buddy who ran a publishing company and the buddy was like, you got to finish that song and don't get a co-writer. Finish it yourself. Turns out that piece of advice, basically don't split the songwriting royalties.

That advice was worth, I'm sincerely guessing, millions of dollars, double digit millions. Took a while for that windfall to kick in, though. Don himself once explained the premise of Akey, Breaky Heart this way. The premise of the song is that when a relationship ends, it wouldn't be so bad, if the heart wasn't involved. Once I started writing, it went so quickly. The song just fell out of the air. I love the abstract factor.

There's just no logic to music. You know who Don gave that quote to? A newspaper called The North Indiana Times. Article ran in late October 1992. Akey, Brinky Heart had come out in March. It was already a number one country hit. It had already crossed over and peaked at number four on the pop charts, on the Billboard Hot 100.

Top five pop songs in July 18th, 1992, number five, TLC, baby, baby, baby. Number four, achy, breaky heart. Number three, red hot chili peppers under the bridge. Number two, Mariah Carey, I'll be there. And number one, baby got back. Amazing. Now it's October. But Don notes that he won't get a royalty check until February.

You know what Don was doing when he conducted this interview with the North Indiana of Times. Hanging wallpaper at the Hammond Whiting Convalescent Center, a nursing home in Whiting, Indiana. The headline was, country songwriter, not quitting his day job. I'm pretty sure Don quit his day job when that first royalty check hit in February. Shout out Don. Here's another song Don wrote called Fall. That changes pace through a slow braw. This tune, the Oak Ridge Boys released in 1992. The Oak Ridge Boys have been around since World War II. Started as a gospel group switch to country music in the 70s,

dozens of former members, but in 92, they're plenty famous in their own right. Fall is not their best work or dons. Obviously, it's a little wordy, a little abstract, or not abstract enough. It's about how they're too nervous to fall in love, but it's also about fall, this season, turning to winter. A lot going on here. I'm telling you this because it turns out that the Oak Ridge Boys recorded the wrong Don Von Tress song.

Infamously, the Oak Ridge Boys passed on Akey Breaky Heart because lead vocalist, Duane Allen, didn't like the phrase Akey Breakie. In 2020, actually, whoever runs the Oak Ridge Boys Twitter account clarified that, yeah, Duane didn't dig the phrase Ake-Brake-Brake, but actually their label RCA records ultimately passed on the song. Labels. Whatever there are reason for passing, whoever passed, I get it. I do.

Ronnie Millsap also turned down Akey Breaky Heart, according to Don. You know who didn't pass? The Marcy Brothers. A country pop trio of actual brothers from Oroville in Northern California. In July 1991, the Marcy Brothers released their second album,

self-titled, The 10th and final song was called Don't Tell My Heart. But don't tell my heart, my achy-breaking heart, I just don't think he'll. understand. And then they broke up.

The Marcy Brothers album went nowhere. This song went nowhere. This version of the song is inferior, to be clear. But it's not like the difference between selling jack shit and having the number one album in America for 17 straight weeks inferior. Because that's what happened to Billy Ray Cyrus, less than a year after this version. It's the little things, I guess. You will note that the Marcy brothers sing it as achy break in heart, not achy. breaky and I guess that sinks it.

You can just tell they're not fully invested. The guitar solos are better in this version. Frankly, it's mystifying. It's someone mystifying. There's no logic to music, but there's even less logic to the music industry. Shit happens. And even worse, shit doesn't happen. Because if you tell my heart, my achy breaking heart,

he might blow up and kill this man. You know who truly got this song, though? You know who fully invested in this song? Billy Ray Cyrus was born in Flatwoods, Kentucky in 1961. In the early 90s, he's pushing 30. Authenticity. He'd been married. He'd been divorced.

By the end of 92, he had a couple kids and was secretly at first remarried. To his current wife, Tish Finley, authenticity. Miley Cyrus was born in November 92. He's a college dropout. Went to Georgetown and Kentucky on a baseball scholarship. but he dropped out his junior year because he wanted to be a rock star after going to a Neil Diamond concert. Authenticity? Yeah, sure.

In the late 80s, he led a country and rock cover band called Sly Dog that played bars in Ironton, near the borders of Ohio, Kentucky, and West Virginia. I've lived in Ohio for more than half my life. Never heard of Ironton. That's on me. Authenticity. For a while, he lived out of his Chevy Beretta out in L.A., trying to make it as a solo artist. authenticity. He signed a Mercury Records in 1990. He opened for Reba McIntyre. Authenticity. He started

gathering songs for his debut album, which he'd called Some Gave All. He heard Akey Breaky Heart, and he said, that's mine. That's my song. Billy Ray released a memoir in 2013 called Hillbilly Heart, Authenticity. And in there, he wrote about Akey Breaky Heart. Once I got a of it. I never let that song out of my grasp. I loved it. And I knew Joe was right. It was going to be a hit. That's Joe Scafe, his producer. I think we can all agree. This is Billy Ray's song. The way Billy Ray Cyrus sings, You Can Tell Your Dog to Bite My Leg is Country as hell. He sings that line like it's the funniest joke ever told. That's how you got to sing every line. So that's how he sings every line. However convoluted this song's premises anatomically, you got to admire the rhyme scheme.

This is a deft economical little tune. Billy Ray is having fun. His band's having fun. The song itself, as a separate, sentient entity, is having fun. The line dancers are having fun, and so you're having fun. That's how it works. That's how country music works. That's how most pop music works, minus the line dancing part.

Ah, right. Billy Ray Cyrus reignites a national country line dancing craze in the video for Akey Brakey Heart. Yeah, my new thing is YouTube videos of Akey Breakie Heart line dance tutorials. This is my new self-care rabbit hole, quite soothing. This one's led by a lady named Juliet Lamb. She's got a ton of line dance videos, mostly recorded at the Dallas Chinese Community Center in Richardson, Texas. I dig the vibe. Watching these videos is also for me a form of penance. My experience of the achy, breaky heart phenomenon as a snotty, alt-rockin early 90s teenager

was one of performative disdain. So I'm at a junior high gymnasium after school dance, right? Or a high school homecoming dance or a wedding or whatever. And I'm too timid to dance or ask a girl to dance, but I'm tentatively roving the edge of the dance floor, just biting my time, strategizing. And when Akey Brakeye Heart came on or Boo scoot and Boogie by Brooks and Dunn or Chattahoochee, a mass line dancing event would spontaneously occur. And I'd be super pissed, right?

I'd go, daw, and I'd retreat further from the dance floor in disgust and hugged the wall and just radiate contempt for line dancing. Do this is so stupid. It was only in a retrospect that it occurs to me, that A, the dance floor was fullest, in these moments, and B, the dance floor was happiest, was at its most joyous, most infectiously joyous in those moments, had I been smart enough to allow that joy to infect me? Specifically, there were a lot more girls on the dance floor at this point. I am also now realizing a strategic error on my part. Same deal when you get a little older, right? So now I'm a snotty indie rockin' 20-something, and the girls I know announced that they want to go to the The boot. The boot being the country music bar that proliferated, that thrived. And even your lousy or mid-sized American cities.

And the girls are like, we want to go to the boot. And I go, do, I don't want to go to the boot. And so the girls go to the boot. And I sit at home playing Metal Gear Solid and not dancing with girls. Strategic error. So look, it's not water skiing in jeans. The official achy, breaky heart video is neither as flashy nor as cheesy as I remember. quite frankly, it's remarkably chaste as ass-wiggling contests go.

It's a straightforward moderately rowdy live performance clip. Billy Ray's mullet is resplendent. The crowd is overwhelmingly female. The crowd, way more the ladies in this crowd paid a babysitter than required a babysitter. Do you get me? Billy Ray knows his demographic. Billy Ray is a handsome rapscallion type, but he's not like Peak Tim McGraw ripped. as a physical specimen.

His voice has a wit and a warmth to it, but he's no Alan Jackson. He's no Brooks or Dunn. He's certainly no Brooks and Dunn. He's no Garth. But he's just weapons-grade affable. And PG-13 sexy, and he doesn't try to do too much.

He's got a monster earworm chorus, like picture in earworm wearing a giant belt buckle and water skis. And he's got a floor full of infectiously joyful line dancers. And achy-bringy heart doesn't need him to hit a grand slam for achy-breaky heart to be a grand slam the singer just has to hit a ground rule double sports metaphors i know i said that the key to an all-time classic country song is one perfect lyrical image something mundane transformed into something magical but with apologies

to your brother cliff whose fists can tell my lip i don't know if achy-brachy heart has a line like that or needs one the whole song is something allegedly mundane transatlanticly transformed into something magical. This is one plus one equals five. Speaking of math, Billy Ray's debut album, Some Gave All, did indeed top the Billboard album chart for 17 straight weeks and sold 20 million copies worldwide.

Shout out to him for not naming the whole album Akey Breakie Heart. The song, Some Gave All, which closes the album, has endured as a patriotic anthem in its own right. All gave some. Some gave some. all.

Soon some had the fall. I really dig the song, Where Am I Gonna Live as well? That's W-H-E-R-A-R-A-M. Listen, Billy Ray's got something like 16 albums total, and no,

he never managed a massive crossover hit again. And yeah, in the modern parlance, he's Miley Cyrus's semi-wayward dad. But if we're going to be snotty and tag him as a one-hit wonder,

I do think that's largely a testament to the magnet of the hit in question. He bragged once to ABC News that Akey Breaky Heart made him $40 million in one year. And so naturally, Billy Ray keeps putting out remakes of Ake-Brakey Heart. He did a rap version and a swampy Southern Rock version and a Spanish language version and an EDM version. Most of those came out in 2017 for the original Saul's 25th anniversary.

And in the press release, Billy Ray explained the Global Appeal, of achy, breaky heart this way. When the song was released in the spring of 92, the world, believe it or not, felt much like it does right now. I don't believe that, by the way. I don't mean to interrupt, but that's not true. Rose-colored glasses and all that, but 1992 had some things going for it in retrospect from the perspective of 2017 or certainly 2021.

Pretty chill time relatively the early 90s, I have to say. Anyway, sorry, please continue. He said there were wars and rumors of wars. Famine and darkness was revealing itself much around the globe. People were divided. And politically, it felt as crazy across America as it does now. Basically, it felt like a good time for a happy song. Something simple that everyone could sing and, yes, even dance to.

Take your mind off all the heavy stuff for three minutes and 27 seconds. exclamation point i can't argue with the rest of that although as i lamented not everyone was dancing i was not alone in 1992 in my performative hatred for this song and that performative hatred persists you see achy-breaky heart on a lot of informal informal and formal worst songs of all time lists blender magazine did a 50 worst songs list in 2006 and achy-breaky heart was number two behind we built this city by jefferson starship No comment. But that also is a testament to the magnitude of the hit. What you hate, if you still hate, achy-breaky-heart is how often you've heard this song and how often you still hear it.

Which explains why, in 1993, Akey-Brakey Heart received the single greatest honor any over-exposed pop song can receive. Don't play that song, that Akey-Brakey song. Ake-Brake-e-breaky song by Weird Al Yankovic from the Al-A-Palooza album, Jurassic Park logo on the cover. Personal favorite of mine, this album. And if you play that song, that achy-braky song, I might blow up my radio. I have to tell you that, uh, uh, uh, You may have noticed You may have noticed that weird out

That weird owl is way saltier than usual here The premise of a Weird Al parody song is not ordinarily I hate this song and I'd rather get beat up than hear it again He donated all the money he made from this song to the United Cerebral Palsy Association And in a web Q&A a while back, somebody asked Al about it, and he said, both the writer of Akey, Breaky Heart and I were a little uncomfortable over the fact that the parody was a bit, well, mean, spirited. So we thought it would kind of take the edge off if we donated all of the songwriting proceeds to a worthy charity. So old Don Von Tress had a hand in that decision as well, I think.

If you still hate this song in 2021, fine. Hating this song hopefully helps take your mind off the head. heavy stuff also. I would note, however, that even old Travis Tritt apologized for talking shit about this song. And in 2002, he and Billy Ray performed together at a Wayland Jennings Memorial. That's nice. That's funny. But it's nice, too. Maybe you still agree now with Travis then that achy, breaky heart is frivolous, and it's not real country. But I will point out, politely that in 2019, when another is it country enough debate arose over a massive crossover hit, who did Lil Nas X reach out to for the first remix as a way of proving that Old Town Road was,

in fact, country as hell? You know who. Billy Ray Cyrus. That's the voice down cross town living like a rock star Spend a lot of money on my brand new guitar That's the voice of a man who still likes Bologna on white bread every now and then I bet you'd still like it too Our guest today is Holly Gleason A Nashville based writer and songwriter

An Artist Development consultant She's written for Rolling Stone She's written for The New York Times And she's written a number one country hit with Kenny Chesney Her book, Woman Walk the Line, How the Women in Country Music Changed Our Lives, is in paperback now. Welcome, Holly. Thanks so much for being here. My pleasure, Rob.

Thanks for having me. Of course. Let me put it this way. Do you like the song Akey Breaky Heart more now than you did then? I think people who live through Akeey Brakey never recovered. It was everywhere. And then when you thought you had a moment of silence, it would come seeping in through a crack in the wall or down the chimney or out of the showerhead. It was it was ubiquitous.

That must have been tough after a while. I think any song, I don't think any song could withstand like the barrage of overplaying that achy, breaky heart experienced, right? And not only did country burn it to the ground, then it turns. turned around and ended up on pop radio. And you had dance clubs that weren't boot scoot bars, also doing sexy remixes of the song. So literally, unless you were listening to hip hop, you were deluged with Yakey breakie. Right. Why do you think that is?

Like, this song isn't like a huge departure from a lot of what was on country radio, you know, in 1992. What is it about this song that made it? a supernova. I think there's three things, because obviously I had plenty of time to think about it. The groove was a trench. It wasn't just a groove. Like, you fell into it, and all you could do was just roll forward because you weren't getting out.

And it was two chords. So basically, the song rocked back and forth. And I think that if there's not more dynamics than just chord one, chord two, there's no way to develop any dynamic to escape. And the third thing, you know, never underestimate the power of a dance that lame white people can do. Because like the Macarena, you had, you know, your uncle Chester and grandma now, and three cute little kids, all with freckles, all out on the dance floor, doing basically a version of the electric slide.

Were you ever on that dance floor yourself? This is a safe space, mostly. No. Oh, my God. I'm actually a good dancer. Yeah, yeah. People that know how to dance, we just sort of sucked our teeth and went,

bless their hearts. Mm-hmm. And it was not, and in defense of the song, because I'm not a total scrooge, it was super nice to see people be able to have that moment. Of course.

It's like in a lot of people, the other thing that people forget about country because now it's so youth-oriented, that song gave a lot of 30, 40, and 50-something people who were on their first, second, third divorce, a way to get out into the clubs, meet people, not have to talk too much,

decide whether you kind of like that other person and figure out whether you want to buy him a drink, let alone take them home. Right, right. To the best of your memory, did Nashville treat this song like a fluke and treat Billy Ray Cyrus as an interloper? Was this song a product of the Nashville machine

or a threat to the Nashville machine? It was neither. The fact of the matter is Mercury Records, and I can't remember whether he was Polygram, Polydora Mercury, was always the label that kind of lagged behind. They were always sort of the kid your family said you had to play with. They were just coming off of this massive run with the Kentucky headhunters that came out of nowhere. No other label that would have happened on. And they had this song that had.

not worked for another band called the Marcy Brothers. It was a lot more Stadler Brother-ask. In fact, I think the Oak Ridge Boys maybe were going to cut it. And I think one of the Oakside was stupid and wouldn't cut it. So they were trying to figure out what to do. Brooks and Dunn was about to or had just put out Bootscoot Booggy. They had these strip mall honky tonks that were starting to happen. And somebody, I believe, hired Lee Greenwood.

wife or ex-wife, Melanie Greenwood, who was a Vegas dancer, to come up with something that pretty much any two left feet, honky-talk kind of dude, because girls dance better than guys, I think we can all agree on that, could get through. And that was the whole game plan. Chip and Dales had started happening, and you know if you've seen the video, partway through, he takes that red shirt off. He does. And he works it. He sure does.

So do I have it right that you were on tour with Billy Ray Cyrus for part of the achy, breaky heart explosion? What was that like? It was chaos. And I wasn't actually on the Billy Ray Cyrus tour. At one point, because he was such a punching bag, they put the Kentucky headhunters out on the road opening with him because the headhunters had been in spin and Playboy and Rolling Stone and the critics really liked them.

Ah, okay. So I was kind of the kid's sister, the headhunters. And I would occasionally show up with my friends. And, you know, it was psychotic. I remember being in New York City at Radio City. And, you know, and the heads were like, well, you know, he's an old Kentucky boy, but, you know. And I'm like, yeah, I know. You don't think it's dignified.

We didn't say that. But that's what they meant. And I sort of got it because they were Itchy Brother. And they were signed a swan song records before they two ended up on Mercury. And I remember going down to watch them play. And it didn't look like any audience they'd ever played to. It was a lot of bridge and tunnel housewives. A lot of bling.

A lot of gay people. I loved it. I mean, I saw more men in chaps with sheriffs. stars and stuff. And it was this place where there was so much joy around the damn song and so many hormones around Billy Ray that it was very humid. I remember it was the winter because I had my winter coat on. I remember throwing it down in the dressing room and going out and standing by the

soundboard and watching that audience take in Dumas Walker. And what was amazing was, well, that probably wasn't the kind of music those folks were listening to. They were up and dancing to the Kentucky headhunters too. Yeah. Okay. Well, that's good. Was Billy Ray good live? Was he like a good performer?

Or was it a little like Beatlemania where it doesn't really matter how good he is because people are just screaming at him and sort of drowning him out? Well, that's what I was going to say is. We all laugh before the show is over to go get dinner. But I remember saying, well, I want to go down and see it. I want to go see what the fuss is all about. Because I figured that audience was a perfect leveler. Like, this isn't Texas and Cowboys. And it was a lot of screaming.

Remember people throwing tinsel. I remember people throwing panties and bras. I was going to ask. Yeah, no, there was underwear flying. Could have maybe been a set of grape small. or two. And it was insanity, but, I mean, he got up there and he was pretty fearless and he stood up there. And, you know, he knew when it was achy, breaky heart, but it was also shaky, shaky butt.

And he knew when to turn around and when he turned around and did the side to side about six times, your ears hurt. Oh, boy. Probably to the point of bleeding. And I remember when we came out the stage door, because we were going to go get some dinner, their voices, because they've been singing and stuff, were kind of, you know, hey, buddy.

And I couldn't hear them. I remember laughing and going, I don't know. Yeah. Let's go to the Carnegie Daly. They're open all night. You also sent me the Dolly Parton video, Romeo. It's a delightful video. It was a duet she did with Billy Ray, I think, in 1993.

You know, they're flirting a lot, et cetera. And you said to me, I was there for this. It's a long story. And now's the time, Holly. Let a rip. I was the head of publicity at Sony Nashville. And Dolly had a record coming called Slow Dancing with the Moon. And there is no greater, both marketer, and let me put my little tiny finger on the pulse

of America. And her being Dolly, there isn't a red-blooded country boy that isn't all shook up over her. So she reached out and said, I've got this song and will you come sing it with me? And he, of course, said, yes, ma'am. And then she goes, I've got these girls. We've all won female vocals to the year. And Mary Chapman Carpenter and Kathy Matea and Tanya Tucker, will you come be in my video? And of course he said, yes ma'am.

So we go to this bar in the middle of nowhere, and they have a dance choreographed called the Romeo. And it was, he was so at the apex of the hysteria that there were police lines around the boat. Like, you would never know. It was a road house. And most of the people working on the stuff were driving like Hondas and Toyota Sellecas.

It wasn't flossy. You know, and Dolly had her tour bus there, but Dolly's bus is pretty nondescript because she likes to go undercover. But we had to have word got out. They had to have police line. You had to show credentials to get in, to get under the tape.

And then he's late, and we come to find out that there's a paparazzi story breaking. And I think he was right on the verge of mirroring his wife. Who we'd had a child with. And the record company wasn't super excited about that. And so he was getting a lot of you, you're a sex symbol and a heart drop and you.

And I remember calling his publicist and saying, okay, what do I need to know? Because it was my shoot. It was my sad. I was the PR person. And they're like, well, we don't know which tab it is, but we've got it on good intelligence. And we think they're inside, but we're not sure. And I said, well, anybody, I'll yank their tongue out. And you know that I also got Kenny Chesney a divorce.

so I know a little something about tabloids, probably learned on this video set. And, you know, he came in and you could tell. He had just had it at his bottom and at his heels for almost a year at that point. And couldn't have been sweeter, gave Dolly a big hug. Dolly, I think when they recorded the song, Miley was either about to be born, but Dolly Parton is Miley Cyrus's godmother.

They have a relation. And, you know, Tanya Tucker was very, oh, and Kathy Mateo was like, oh, he's pretty. And Mary Chapin Carpenter was just like, I'm going to go lock myself in the bathroom. And I remember having to get her out of the bathroom because it was just body and sweaty. No, it got, I mean, those, it was full on carnal, like, you could hear the cats hissing, flying. And I'm not even talking about the stars. I mean, he had that much presence at that point. And I remember him coming out and he knew how to do it at that point.

He had been through enough television shows. He's like, where do you need me to look? Where do me to stand? I think if you let me do this, you're going to get a better shot. And he had that pulp fiction eye thing, you know, where they put the light across his eyes. So it's almost like Uma Thurman running her fingers in front of her face. Right, right, right. He was really kind.

And everybody who was there, like he saw him. und autographs and he he got what buttered his bread but i don't think he did it like well i better feed the hogs he did it like oh thank you for liking my music right right i was going to ask if you got any sense of the person like within the looney tunes dust cloud so at least at this point he's still keeping his head you know he's been in it for a while and he's overwhelmed but he's still you know, a nice guy from Kentucky despite it all. No, I think any gnashing of teeth or Billy Ray Bites was because he got put in some really not great positions by people who weren't looking out for him.

And then, you know, after the three albums and each one doing less well and he had an old school country music manager who really didn't think about artist development, you know, he ended up with the wreckage of a career when he might. might, coulda, shoulda oughta. You know, many, many, many years later, somebody gave him my email address, and we started having conversations. And I remember saying to him, no, no, you know me.

And he's like, I don't know you. I remember you. I knew who you were when you were a writer. And I'm like, dude, I promise you so know who I am. And when we finally met, just to show you how even in the eye of the storm, I went out to his house. We were finally in the same city.

We were never in the same city. But we would call and we would talk for like an hour about what happened to his career and why it didn't work and what he really wanted it to be. Yeah. And this was after Hannah Montana was huge. And I walked into the kitchen and I dropped my purse and he looked at me and he started laughing. He goes, I do know who you are. I said, yeah, I told you.

I'm the kid sister of the Kentucky headhunters. I don't look like them. And he was funny. And he goes, no, I do. I know who you are. He said, and you were that girl that I said, yeah, I ran with them. And I kind of helped keep their heads on straight. Do you think that he got what he wanted, Billy Ray eventually, what he talked about, what he wanted for his career?

Like, you see him in the Old Town Road remix. And it's like he got to the other side of whatever he was getting to the other side of. Like, do you think he succeeded on his own terms eventually? No. I think that one of the reasons he jumped in there with Lil Nasaks and why he will help younger artists is because he knows what it's like to not have an outboard motor and not have anybody reach in and help.

I think he felt very shipwrecked by what happened. I think he felt like he didn't get a fair shot. And I would say he didn't. I think he felt like he wasn't ever able to have acceptance for the music he really wanted to make. And I think he still tilts at that today. Okay. That's a really fascinating way of looking at it. Well, and again, I've had hours of conversation with him.

So that's informed. I think that he's at that place now where he's a certain age and what's he going to do? what does he really want to do, right? And I think he was a great steward for Miley. I think the reason Miley survived this success, he and his wife, who was there for all of it, right? They both went to the rodeo. They saw everything that happened that was kind of janky for Billy Ray. Yeah.

And not only did they not let that stop her or derail her, I think they navigated letting her be her beautifully. Right, right. You know, and I remember when the Vanity Fair pictures happened, and that was when we were talking regularly, and he said, I don't understand how anybody could have looked at that picture and see what they're saying they're seeing,

because I was there when it happened. Like, how dirty are these people's minds? And I realized that that's true, But at the same time, they never walked that back. Right. They just said, you know what? Fuck you. That's how you want to see it.

Because he learned that it doesn't really matter. Do you keep doing you? Do you hard? Do you true? Yeah. Show up and be counted. And I don't think we've begun to see the end of what Miley's going to do. No, it's clear.

That's clear. And I credit that. to everything we've talked about with a side order of their creative people. Like, he's always writing songs. He's always got some band going or he's in the studio with somebody

and, you know, it's not a house where they stand around going, remember the time. That's not who any of them are and he's a real engaged parent and he's not going to let anybody mess with his kids, but he's also going to let his kids.

going to let his kids, you know, get out there and eat. Right. Well, that's very heartening in its way, but it is, it really is sad to me that he never got that himself. Like, he's being for Miley and for Lil Nas X or for whoever, you know, what nobody was for him, you know, and they're getting not even redemption because they didn't make the same mistakes, but he's not getting the shot at redemption that he deserves. And he didn't make mistakes. That's the other thing. You know, Let me be clear. He's a kid from nowhere with a nominal education, went to college on a baseball scholarship. So I'm sure he was studying basket weaving.

Dropped out. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, it's like I teach at MTSU and I see what the kids that get to me, good kids, what they know and don't know. But, you know, he had a manager who probably fed him a line, you know, a good line of BS. I know who the manager is he's passed on. That's why I don't want to talk about him specifically, because he can't have found himself,

but he didn't know any better. And so they boss hogged him right out of a career. That is a vivid image, but I think that's exactly right. Thank you so much, Holly. This was wonderful. Thank you so much for coming on. My pleasure. Thanks very much to our guest this week, Holly Gleason.

Thanks, as always, to our producers, Justin Sales and Isaac Lee. and thanks very much to you for listening. And now, without further ado, here is Billy Ray Cyrus with achy-breaky heart. We'll see you next week.