83 Weeks with Eric Bischoff - Episode 275: TNA 1st Weekly PPV 06.91.02 Watch Along

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Starting point is 00:00:44 That's right, it's save with conrad.com. NMLS number 65084 Equal Healthy Lenders. Woo! Hey, hey, it's Conrad Thompson. listening to 83 weeks with Eric Bischoff. Eric, how are you, man? I'm doing well, doing well. Good morning to you and Mr. Silva.

Starting point is 00:01:10 Man, I'm excited to be with you here today. We are recording on a Father's Day. Greatly appreciate everybody showing up and showing out for us, John Hickson and Eddie Prather and, of course, Coast Rosie and Matt and Josh and Keith and, and, man, everybody's hanging out with us on a Sunday morning. Of course, we're on the heels. of the very first ever AEW collision.

Starting point is 00:01:33 And I thought, man, how timely would it be if we watched another first ever episode? That's what we're doing today. We're watching the first ever episode of T&A Wrestling from June 2002. I can't believe this is real from right here in Huntsville, Alabama. It's been 21 years and we're going to watch it together. And don't worry, we're going to talk about AEW collision. We're going to do that towards the end of the show after we finish our watch along. you can watch along with us over on the impact app if you haven't already i'm going to recommend

Starting point is 00:02:03 that you sign up for that we'll make sure that we've got some special promo codes and things like that for you to check it out you can also watch along with us on youtube of course it's 83 weeks on youtube.com that's 83 weeks on youtube.com let's get to it man i think we've got that beautiful bean footage ready to roll the very first episode of t and a wrestling here we go in Three, two, one, play. So, Eric, have you seen this before? I have not. This is a first.

Starting point is 00:02:42 Of all the places to launch a wrestling brand, Huntsville, Alabama. There's probably a good reason for that. Not the least of which, it's a good market. Not a super big market, but big enough to attract a good audience. and I do believe one of the investors I couldn't be wrong about this I don't know about the timing but one of the big investors

Starting point is 00:03:01 originally was from Oswald no he's from Birmingham Birmingham yeah you're thinking of Richard Scroozy Richard Scroocied I don't know if Richard was involved at this stage or not but possibly

Starting point is 00:03:17 so how about that man Don West no longer with us but making his way to the ring I think he's going to introduce Ed Ferrar how about that Don West shirt man he was very colorful wasn't he very outgoing guy i didn't get to know don much at all no he was there for a brief period of time when i first got to t and a but i never really interacted with much with him much but clearly very uh well respected and well loved by

Starting point is 00:03:45 any of the staff and talent i mean just uh you would have loved him eric just a salesman at heart how about ed ferrara here looking like he's uh a star I mean, a leather jacket, the long dreadlocks. Did you have much of a relationship with Ed at all? I did. I worked with Ed in briefly in WCW in 2000 or 2001, whenever it was. When I first got to, when I first came back, must have been 2000. And worked with Ed and Vince together.

Starting point is 00:04:17 They were the dynamic duo that left WWE, went to WCW and then found themselves in AEW. So yeah, I get to work with that a little bit. Mike today on a headset man wrestling is missing him I would have loved to uh seeing him continue his journey through wrestling I think maybe he left impact with a less than awesome taste in his mouth which sucks but dude I uh such a big fan of Mike and this is a cool little trio here Ed Ferrara who's going to be I guess like our Jesse Ventura our crazy personality that's what we're going for you got to have a straight man doing the play by play and calling the action. Who better than that? And the guy who knows all these holes before Excalibur knew him,

Starting point is 00:05:01 Mr. Mike Teney. And then adding a little color, a little excitement, Don West. I can see how that checked all the boxes. What say you? I like it. You know, I mean, Ed was, Ed could be very entertaining. Ed was primarily a writer. But, you know, when you spend enough time writing wrestling, it's not that difficult to, if you've got the right personality and you're interested in being out there in front of the camera, it makes for pretty good color commentary. And the thing I like about a guy who's on the writing team or creative team being also involved in the announced team

Starting point is 00:05:37 is that you have the ability because you're more intimate with where the stories are going or even possibly going that you can do a pretty good job threading story throughout the match in addition to adding just the color and the, more provocative commentary that comes along with that sometimes. Hey, let me ask you, if your vision for WCW would have happened, you know, instead of, you know, it going to WWE, if you would have got your hands on the thing and there's a new WCW sort of

Starting point is 00:06:10 relaunch, if you will, would Mike Tenaa fit into those plans? I know we've talked a little bit about Joey Stiles before. Would Mike Tenaa fit in somewhere? Yeah, I think so because I always respected Mike when it came to color commentary. I mean, he was a walking, talking encyclopedia and was so good at adding that little touch of color, that little bit of information, that little bit of depth to a character or a story or backstory. There was nobody better at that than Mike.

Starting point is 00:06:40 I was not a fan. I've said this before. As much as I respect and did respect, still do. Mike Teney, play-by-play was not his strength. Collar commentary was his strength. And I think that he was just, I'm sure he enjoyed doing it, but it just wasn't his strength. And I would have used Mike, much like I did in Nitro originally, to come in and just add depth and perspective and educate the audience about the talent as opposed to, you know, knowing very little about their lives prior to stepping into the ring. So what we're doing now is we're introducing a lot of legends here.

Starting point is 00:07:25 One of the interesting things about the initial version of this show is it's called NWA T&A. They're trying to lean into the legacy and history of professional wrestling, which I appreciate. So we introduced Harley Race first. Now here comes Dory Funk Jr. I guess Jackie Fargo and Bob Armstrong and Ricky Steamboat and a lot of other folks. Here comes Jackie right there. Strutton as only he could. I like the idea of embracing the legacy and the history of the NWA, although, you know,

Starting point is 00:07:56 critics like our boy Bruce Pritchard, he would say, much like ECW once in one of time, this was a dead brand. And while that might be true, if you're starting from absolute scratch, I could say I see the value in leaning into that history and that nostalgia and having that iconic championship belt. What say you? Would you have gone with the, the, the, the, the, NWA relationship? No.

Starting point is 00:08:21 No. By this point in time, 2002, you're resurrecting something that had been so diluted. The NWA brand, you know, 10 years earlier, sure. But by this point in time, I think the NWA brand had just been diluted to the point that you're better off starting from, I would have started from scratch as opposed to leading into the history of a brand that had been diluted and kind of broke through the dirt. we should talk about Dawn a little bit because there's been a report out from a long time ago that perhaps, and I think this was actually Vince Russo suggesting that he was trying to get Don

Starting point is 00:09:04 involved in WCW way back when it just never came to fruition. Do you remember hearing about that, any chatter about Don West perhaps in WCW? No, I mean, if Russo was attempting to make that happen, it would have been during that period of time when I was fishing in Wyoming. Right. So I didn't hear anything about that. Of course, we know that this show, this whole promotion, as we see Ricky Steamboat coming in here with the 10 pounds of gold,

Starting point is 00:09:31 is really the brainchild of the Jarrett, said Bob Ryder. And of course, Jeremy Borash, who's holding the mic in the ring there, are all intricately involved. What was your relationship like with Jerry Jarrett during your time in WCW? you know i brought jerry in so my idea to bring jerry in and as well as a couple of other people that i wanted you know i wanted that voice and experience and perspective from promoters who had been successful you know i knew i was going in a much different direction but i was hoping to find some balance and it's not like i discounted you know generally

Starting point is 00:10:15 generation that came before me, or in Jerry's case, maybe two generations that came before me, as much as I was wanting to find something different than, but at the same time, still be rooted in some of the fundamentals and basics. And I was hoping that Jerry Jarrett would be one of those guys that could kind of provide that balanced perspective. What about Jeremy Borash? You know, you, I guess you're responsible for being the guy who even got Jeremy in the rassling business. And of course, these days, he's a lot of people believe, one of the right-hand guys of Triple H in WWE, but he was here in impact for a long time, even helping put together

Starting point is 00:10:56 some of the broken Matt Hardy stuff before everyone sort of flew the coop. But it all started when you hired, and I believe at the time, a young man who lived with his parents doing radio in Minneapolis, your old stomping grounds, won a lot of awards there in the radio market and had a bright future. And unfortunately, there was no money in radio back the end. And I don't know that that's changed a ton as technology has improved. But it got quite an offer from you to come in. And I believe essentially start the first sort of mainstream wrestling podcast, WCW Live.

Starting point is 00:11:33 Talk to us about how Jeremy Borash came into the fold, as best you recall. You know, I'm not confident. at all that I'm the one that brought Jeremy in. I think that might have been Vince Rousseau. It's during that period of that transition of being sent home and then being called back to WCW and I'm pretty sure when I came back to WCW, Jeremy was there. So I think Vince Rousseau deserves the credit for that one. It was you.

Starting point is 00:12:02 It was March in 1999. It was me. March of 99. You did it. Wow. How about that? It wouldn't have been a direct hire. I didn't interview him. I did somebody must have said hey we like this guy we think he's got a role can we bring him in um

Starting point is 00:12:17 i obviously approved it then if it would have happened in march but i wasn't the uh i wasn't the catalyst so here we see all the legends that are talking about how much the n w a and this world title means and they're being interrupted by jeff jerrett let's track it gaultlet for the goal Two guys are going to start, and there's going to be a total walking down this aisle. That's the biggest bunch of crap I've ever heard in my life. What do you mean? Explain yourself. Ricky Seboat, did you win the title in a stupid battle royal?

Starting point is 00:12:55 No, he beat me great. Did you win your title back in 1902 in a battle raw? Hell no, you didn't. It was 1969. This is the biggest joke. of the NWA title that I've ever witnessed. I win my title.

Starting point is 00:13:12 Listen to man, Fargo. You butt out of it, you old fart. You kiss my ass. Whoa. Oh, man, it's getting stirred up. Nobody, boy. That's the fabulous for Jackie Fargo. I remember when he was at high

Starting point is 00:13:25 still dude doing yellow. I don't want to hear about as you told. There's the strep that we talked about. We're going to do it like the fabulous one down. So don't hear me that for all your mouth running on that stage. I'm going to put you on the very first. Unless you try to beat all 20 of these people.

Starting point is 00:13:50 He's going to have the first entrance in the go for the goal. He's an NWA representative. If I want to step in the ring first, that's all right with me. Because what I'm going to do is I'm going to proceed to kick 19 other asses. I'm going to walk out of here, the new NWA world heavyweight champion. I've got to respect that from Jeff Jared. Jeff Jarrett coming in hot. And look, that music, Eric, it means, well, someone else is coming out.

Starting point is 00:14:21 Who could it be? See, I didn't know this. I didn't know that Ken Shamrock made an appearance on his first episode. You're right about how this NWA title match is played out. It sucks. Hey, man. But you may be whipping 18 other people's ass in that ring, but you ain't whipping number 19.

Starting point is 00:14:57 And that's me. You know! It's on like Nickbone. wait a minute Eric that's even more music well who could this be might be somebody you're pretty familiar with wow Scott Hall in the crowd wearing a strip club t-shirt cooler than the other side of the pillow what a great name for a strip club too the landing strip I bet it's by an airport I had to guess.

Starting point is 00:15:37 I know, I love it was going to do that. Cut the music, he says. Hey, yo. I love this. I knew he was going to do that. I knew he was going to do that. There's that dude big. Jeff Jarrett,

Starting point is 00:15:58 Hens Shamrock. I agree with you about this battle royal. for the bell, it sucks. But one thing's for sure, right here in T&A, we are going to do it tonight. So quit crying about it. It's just a fact of life, Jared. And Jared and Shamrock,

Starting point is 00:16:27 I don't know if it's 18 or 19 people you've got to beat up. Just focus on trying to beat up one. Scott Hall. Well, let me pet you something, Hall. You can stick it. Shamrock, you can stick it all you old Farts can. And Fargo, you're going to regret this day as long as you live.

Starting point is 00:16:54 What does he mean by that? So there you go. We're setting up our gauntlet for the gold. It's a big battle royal to determine the new NWA heavyweight champion. And we got some star power out here first. And how about this? Let's go backstage. This is Goldilocks.

Starting point is 00:17:10 And I think she's going to be talking to a special performer. Nonstop action right here, babe. With me. The original midget killer puppet, Psycho Dwarf. And he's told me that he's got something that he wants to say. That's right. Let's start to show off with midgets. Why?

Starting point is 00:17:30 Because midgets are the true stars of this country. The day I came out of my mama. Yeah, I said. The day I came out of my mama, the nurses and the doctors just stopped and stared. When I was a little child, weevil wobbling down the street, everybody stopped and stared. And now TNA brings me to Huntsville, Alabama, and they got these two midgetteau in Hollywood. All I want to say is, I want to seize the midget blood. And I just think I can...

Starting point is 00:17:57 Oh, Fargo, who in the hell is... ...backed ass. So there you go. They're taking a commercial break. I'm sorry, but tell me about Goldilocks. I don't know who she was she. Backstage interviewer that they brought in here.

Starting point is 00:18:17 She, she's got a podcast doing her thing now. And these are, of course, the T&A girls, girls in cages. We're going to use them as sort of bumpers, really leaning into T&A. What do you think of just the name T&A and the decision to, you know, just lean into the risque? I know that, you know, that seems a little sort of passee now. But in 2002, we are fresh off of the attitude era. And look at who the first performer walking to the ring to actually wrestle is. Who else?

Starting point is 00:18:46 It's AJ Stiles, Loki, who I was convinced in 2002 was going to be one of the biggest stars in wrestling and pulling up the rear, one of the most talented wrestlers to ever lace them up, Mr. Jerry Lynn. Man, you got a pretty hot start to this show as far as all the legends. and then, of course, some of the top stars that we know we're going to recognize from WDF and WCW, whether it's Jeff or Ken or Scott. And now, man, like some of the best in-ring competitors there, I mean, AJ Stiles, 21 years ago, my goodness.

Starting point is 00:19:18 Pretty amazing. And one thing I want to point out before we get too far into the show, Mike Tene, to point out an example of why Tenae was so good. Now, obviously, he was in a play-by-play role here, but as a call commentator his instincts were to make sense out of things for the for the viewer because this show opens you've got all these legends coming into the ring and jacky fargo is making a match brings to my mind the question why right why was somebody who 80% of the audience 70% of the audience probably didn't recognize 90 they have recognized his name but now he's in there making a match

Starting point is 00:19:59 And today, he didn't have a lot of time, but very quickly pointed out that Jackie Fargo was a member of the NWA Championship Committee, therefore implying or inferring that he had the ability to make a match for the title. That was an example of what a good color commentator, or in this case, play by play guy does, is answer those questions, provide some kind of a creative structure, a narrative structure, I should say, not creative, a narrative structure that allows the viewer to, accept what they're seeing and understand it. I don't really understand what we're watching now. Let me explain. These are the Flying Elvis's Eric. It's Jimmy Yang, who you knew from WCW, George Estrada, and Sunny Siaki.

Starting point is 00:20:44 And Sunny Siaki is going to be what a lot of people thought at the time. Like, oh man, he could be their rock. I'm sure that's just based on the look. Of course, we know as talented of a performer as he was. He never quite got there. But we're trying some different gimmicks to say the least. The Flying Elvases. The only thing I could be critical about,

Starting point is 00:21:04 but maybe I'm just splitting hairs. But this is our first look at this promotion. And we're choosing to have both heels and baby faces come out and say, yeah, this battle royal idea sucks. Like, I don't know that on the first episode, I would have everyone agree that something on the show sucks. But, hey, at this point, we're telling stories.

Starting point is 00:21:29 we got your $10. We're not trying to sell you anything else. And it is what it is. A little known fact, AJ Stiles was actually signed to WCW before they went out of business. So was Jimmy Wang Yang, a couple of Georgia boys here,

Starting point is 00:21:41 tearing it up. Interesting to think about, you know, as we sort of said, hey, would you have kept Mike Teney around if you got your hands on WCW there at the end? AJ Stiles would have been under contract.

Starting point is 00:21:51 This could have been happening on your program. AJ Stiles, I mean, and there's AJ calling right now to say how, wanting to see how you would have booked him. this is weird okay your audio doesn't work you don't know how to turn your phone off we got that came in as a face time and my phone is connected to my my computer so i was going to say we got you up too early on a father's day today no i am a little disheveled it's been a crazy

Starting point is 00:22:17 uh 10 days or two weeks for me but i'm i think we're on we're on it now so uh a j styles in the new wcd could you have seen it would you would you have embraced that style again much like you have before that cruiserweight style hold on there we are uh yeah i would have um i i mean look certainly a j now i'll be honest i wasn't didn't have my eye on a j styles at the time he was in wc wc so i can't tell you right that i analyzed him and watched him and thought he was going to be a great fit for the cruiserweight division but i was jimmy yang is in this match and get into WCW because I wanted to bring in more cruiserweight type guys. I wanted to bring more of that style in.

Starting point is 00:23:03 And Jimmy Yang came in along with Shannon Moore and so many of the other guys that were part of that late cruiserweight recruitment. Chris Canyon had a lot to do with bringing Jimmy Yang in. And I like Jimmy. Jimmy was a good friend of my son, Garrett. I think they went to school together. So I was a big fan of Jimmy Yang's. I certainly would have kept him around.

Starting point is 00:23:24 I certainly would have kept AJ Stiles around and built on the cruiserweight to be. Meltzer reviewing this would say nonstop action with some stiff moves, good at the tone at setting the tone for a TNA can offer, even if it's not as polished as top WWE matches. He gives it two and three quarter stars. Listen, starting off with a lot of exciting moves and visuals. I mean, that makes sense to me.

Starting point is 00:23:54 and when I think of guys like that or who can perform that style I think a lot of low-key, especially in the era, do you get to see much low-key? I did. You know, not necessarily firsthand, but I was very, very much aware of him. And

Starting point is 00:24:09 I think I worked with Loki for a little while in T&A. Pretty certain I did. But liked his work. And had a great look. Again, another one of those guys in that cruiserweight division that could have been a major star. And again, timing, so often is everything.

Starting point is 00:24:26 And I just think the timing might have been just a hair offer. We started the show with sort of a throwback to the way Memphis TV used to open. The statue of the wrestlers spinning around sort of old school. This is also the era where the WWA had been trying to do something down under in Australia and whatnot. There's lots of people who are thinking, hey, there's a hole in the market since there is no ECW. There is no WCW. So I get that. You yourself, though, by this point, find yourself working with WWV. Do you recall anyone in WWE talking about this new promotion, T&A, or was business as usual? It was business as usual. It never came up in conversation.

Starting point is 00:25:14 Speaking of conversation, I wanted to ask, as we saw a clip of a puppet, we're actually going to see Teo in Hollywood here and a little person match coming up next. Did you ever have any serious conversation besides when you had them blow up boats about using little people in wrestling? Never did. Was that just not for you? Did you think it wasn't mainstream, too old school? You didn't see the value?

Starting point is 00:25:40 I saw the value, but I, and I know this is probably wrong of me, but I felt it was exploiting. them. There's a way to use a little person and make them a part of the show in the roster. And I think what I saw, you know, what we saw in that open, I thought that was great. But so often in, even before I got into the wrestling business, when I saw, is it wrestling, as it was referred to at the time, didn't want to be offensive to anybody. But that is what it was called.

Starting point is 00:26:22 Some little people are offended by that term. Some aren't. But it was more comedic than it wasn't anything else. And I felt that seeing little people being used in a way that was almost always comedic, to me, felt exploitive. And I just didn't feel comfortable with it. Fair enough. I mean, there's a role. Don't get me wrong.

Starting point is 00:26:51 And like I said, my view. on that could be very, it was just a personal view. And I, I, I, I just felt uncomfortable, but it doesn't mean that I was right, certainly. And I worked with, you know, a group of little people, you know, microchampionship wrestling. Right. He did a reality show for them and loved working with them. We got to be pretty good friends with, with several of them. And they're just as, you know, they're, there is committed and, and passionate about their work as anybody else. But in that particular promotion, it wasn't a comedic type. It was treated very, very seriously. And I felt comfortable with that as opposed to using little people and doing it in a

Starting point is 00:27:33 comedic way. So just for the record, AJ Stiles, the first wrestler to step in the ring to wrestle here in TNA, also the got to lose the first fall. And there we see another shot of the T&A girls in cages. I guess this is Nitro Girls meets 2002. Did you think the Nitro girls or these T&A girls were exploitative like the little people were? No, not at all. Well, I mean, I think, you know, the T&A girls, I think especially since the organization is called T&A and we're essentially watching strippers in cages, it didn't impress me. It was not creative.

Starting point is 00:28:14 It just was there for obvious reasons. I think the nitro girls, I liken them more to the Dallas Cowboy cheerleaders. That's right. I think they used more appropriately. And of course, they were easy on the eyes. And there were probably some prepubescent and post-pubescent members of the audience. They got a real kick out of it. But I think it was done more tastefully, to be honest.

Starting point is 00:28:43 So they're going to have a two minute and 45 seconds. match here for the little folks. It gets one star. It was written here by the torch. This match was expendable, but entertaining enough to earn three minutes of the time it absorbed. If they build a storyline around these three little folks, it could be a solid every other week type ongoing segment.

Starting point is 00:29:07 I realize it's not for everybody, but I'll tell you this. I actually was in the crowd for this show. Oh, where'd be? I was going to ask you if you took part in this. I did go and I was excited to go and I went with my uncle, my mom's brother and man, he was so excited because, you know, when he was going to wrestling as a kid, there were little people matches. So he was excited that, hey,

Starting point is 00:29:28 maybe this is going to be a thing again. Because at this point, it had been quite a while since that had happened in WWV or certainly WCW. I don't think it ever happened besides when you guys put bombs and shark fins on their backs. That was Sharon Sadella. I had nothing to do with. Listen, you wrote in your book that you actually got a call from both Jeff and Jerry about being a part of this organization. And it was almost written like, you know, they gave you the model and you just didn't see it. Was that pretty much it? You didn't buy into the idea that running weekly pay reviews for $10 a pop.

Starting point is 00:30:07 You didn't think that was going to do the trick. Absolutely. Yeah. And I was, you know, I was flattered to get. the call. And it was a good opportunity at the time. But yeah, to your point, when I asked, I said, great, what, what are you doing? Tell me about your company and how you're moving forward. And when it was explained to me that it was going to be a weekly pay-per-view, I just didn't see how that could possibly work. And I didn't want to be involved with something that I knew,

Starting point is 00:30:36 or I believed at least, deep down the side that wasn't viable. Do you think at the time, had the wrestling business, just based on the way it had evolved, or maybe his heyday to the end, do you think not necessarily the psychology of wrestling or any of that, but just the understanding of how the landscape had changed? Do you think that had passed Jerry by this point? Without question. Yeah. You know, and I don't mean just to sound.

Starting point is 00:31:12 like a shot, but as much as I respected the perspective of people like Jerry and Vern Gagnon, for example, even Greg Gagnon at the time, there was a tendency to be so rooted in the way things that they used to do it that they had a very difficult time embracing a different way of doing things. And it was subtle, and I think it was subconscious on their part. And I understand it. I mean, I really do. I get it.

Starting point is 00:31:47 And I understand why. But if you can't get past the way you used to do things and embrace the way things need to be done in a newer environment, when television is much more important, television is used to promote a pay-per-view as opposed to promoting a weekly territory model, which is what Jerry Jerry, Brett was most familiar with. That's the way he came up. That's the way he had a tremendous amount of success. That's why he ended up making as much money as he did. That was his

Starting point is 00:32:17 perspective of how things should be done. I had the same issue with Bill Watts. It's one of the reasons why early on I didn't believe that Bill Watts was going to have impact that Turner was hoping he was going to have because Bill Watts just wanted to go back to do things the way it used to be done in Mid-South. And the world had changed. And we're kind of seeing that now. the world is a different world today. And wrestling has to, any form of entertainment has to evolve with the culture, has to evolve with the technology, and has to evolve with the taste and the expectations, because the expectations of the audience changes as well, based on the things that they see outside of wrestling.

Starting point is 00:32:58 So, yeah, I did believe that to be true. It's why, you know, Jerry didn't last long in WCW as a consultant, because I wasn't getting anything out of him, that helped. balance that perspective strictly more of uh whenever i would have conversations with jerry and we would sit down and i would try to engage with him as a consultant it was never look this is how we used to do things but maybe now we modify that and apply it in this manner that's a good way of saying it or not and i never got that all i ever got was back in Memphis, this is what we did. Back in Memphis, this is what we did

Starting point is 00:33:40 and not adapting what they used to do to what needed to be done in this different environment. That's what I was hoping for when I brought Jerry in. And that's, unfortunately, what, at least at the time, I didn't feel I was getting. And that could have been me as well. I was so focused on different than that I may have been resistant to some of the things that Jerry was trying to communicate. That's a fair of you to say. So we've got Ed Ferrara and Don West in the ring introducing all the women who are going to partake in next week's T&A Battle Royal, Francine, Miss Joni.

Starting point is 00:34:18 Look at there, a very young, you recognize who that is? Icky. How about that, 21 years ago? So we got Shannon, who we know as Daphne and Francine and Alexis and Electra from ECW and Taylor and Teresa. a bunch of different ladies and they're promoting that next week they're going to crown a miss t and a i believe that coming to the ring is uh taylor could be wrong that is electra we've seen her in ECW Francine of course was the first one out and uh

Starting point is 00:34:54 they're teasing here the next week which i guess makes sense if you're trying to get people to come out of their pocket and spend ten dollars a week you need to give them a reason to tune in. I think this lady was in the WWF for a cup of coffee as BB. That could be wrong. A lot of women there.

Starting point is 00:35:17 Tons and tons and tons of ladies. Of course, we know that payroll is going to start shrinking. They're going to recognize that Jay Hosman has been giving them inaccurate pay-per-view buy rate forecasts and they're making financial decisions based on a number that is roughly 10 what it actually is so slowly but surely we're no longer in arenas like we are here at the

Starting point is 00:35:40 von brawn center and we don't have nearly as many folks coming in uh we're gonna get our costs in line let's track it a little bit conrad you you were there how could you estimate do you recall approximately how many people were in the von brawn center for it wasn't full but i mean it wasn't empty i mean you know when when w and and a w and a w and a w and a w run these days, you know, there's 2,500 to 4,000 folks there. I would say that's about right. Let's go ahead and track Francine here.

Starting point is 00:36:18 Because none of them can compare to me. Let's face it, ladies, I'm the queen of extreme. I mean, really. What has any of you ever done for the wrestling business? I'll tell you. Number one, who deemed you queen of extreme? I see there's many of the ladies in this ring,

Starting point is 00:36:52 and you want to know what? This is a new company. I don't hear extreme in the title. Unless you're ashamed that you single-hand. So there you go. We're getting our big tease for the big cat fight. You know, listen, I guess if your name is T&A and Rousseau is obviously involved in writing here, he thinks, you know, we need some shock stuff. We need some attractive ladies stuff. We need some scantily clad stuff. So some clothes are going to get ripped and we're setting the stage for next week. It's not really my thing, but I guess it is what it is.

Starting point is 00:37:36 It is embarrassing to watch, but yes. I get it. I understand why. I just think it was a bad strategy. I mean, especially on your very first episode, if this is how you're branding your show, this is the first thing people see. It's just not that impressive.

Starting point is 00:37:58 But I get it, you know, they were leaning heavily into the tits and ass. I'm sorry, T&A branding of it and just, it's just, it's distasteful, that's all. Well, I'll tell you what, I, I was glad to have a ticket there that night. I bet you were. How old were you then? I would have been, uh, almost 21. So I'm 20 years old here. Oh, okay.

Starting point is 00:38:23 Uh, they weren't a kid. You know, you, you, you went, you didn't fall into that prepubescent, slightly post-pubescent category. No, I was, I was with it. Um, you know, there was a lot of good stuff that happened on this. Here's more than a plum tree. Let's track it. Story of a life filled with torment. Torment leading to pain. Pain leading to will, will leading to power.

Starting point is 00:38:48 Allowing me to bring my tag team who in our formative years for my torment. They do what I tell them to do when I tell them to do it. What I tell them, without questioning, for they know that they owe me their freedom, livelihoods. They don't listen only to me, and now I call upon them, for all make their presence, for all make their presence known in this arena. Writing history books of this sport, I give to you my tag team, the Johnson. So let's say, I like this Goldilocks. I don't know why, but she looks very authentic. Yeah, she's doing a great job.

Starting point is 00:39:54 Expressions seem very natural and not posy. I like her. I'm surprised she didn't she didn't get more work. Oh, she was around for a bit. But I'm glad I got to see her. And I'm glad I got to see this show. I just wish back then I would have had game time.

Starting point is 00:40:12 You see, game time is where I go now for my tickets. And you can too. And I go because I get the lowest price guaranteed. And sometimes I go because I forgot the tickets are going on sale. And I don't have to get stressed out about I miss my chance. It's sold out. Not anymore.

Starting point is 00:40:28 now I can get flash deals and last minute tickets all with game time but seriously my favorite part is the low price guarantee like the game time guarantee means you always get the best price let me explain if you find tickets in the same section and row for less money game time will credit you 110% of the difference think about that means you're going to be 10% cheaper than anybody else in your section in row you just can't beat that this isn't just for wrestling by way. This will work for football or basketball or baseball or concerts or comedy or theater. And if it's a ticketed event, game time's got you covered. They also get rid of the guessing game. We've all seen a seat map before and wondered, well, is that a good seat?

Starting point is 00:41:13 Is that a good ticket? Well, here you get images of your seat before you buy. So you know exactly what to expect when you arrive. No surprises. And seriously, it's just two taps and it's in your phone. You don't have to dig through your email, none of that. I can't recommend game time enough. And Eric, you've even talked about whenever you're in a new town or a new market, maybe you've got some business there and you've got some downtime. You'll just pull up game time and see what's going down in the area, right?

Starting point is 00:41:38 I do. And you know what's cool about game time is again, when I travel, and oftentimes when I travel on business, I have a night or two sometimes where there's really, I have no business to take care of businesses during the day or whatever.

Starting point is 00:41:53 And if I want to do something at night, much like I use iTunes, sometimes to discover music that I wouldn't otherwise come across throughout the course of my normal day. You can go to game time if I'm in, if I come to Huntsville, which I'm going to be doing here in a couple days. But if I go into any market, I've got some time on my hands, I don't know what to do.

Starting point is 00:42:15 I can scan through everything that's going on at the market. And sometimes you just discover, you can discover a new performer or a new act, singer, whatever. and become a fan of someone that you didn't even know existed. Because it's all sitting right there for you. Just like you can with iTunes. You scroll down and looking for decent music. And boom, here's a live concert or a performance of some sort of another

Starting point is 00:42:39 that wasn't necessarily on your radar, but you, hey, check it out. And it's right there. And it's a great app, by the way. And not to sound negative, but anything, anything, any alternative to ticket master, It's Michael. I can't recommend it enough. Snag the tickets without the stressful game time. Download the GameTime app.

Starting point is 00:43:01 Create an account and use the code weeks for $20 off your first purchase. Terms apply. Again, create an account and redeem the code weeks for $20 off. Download game time today. Last minute tickets. Lowest price guaranteed. Let's get back to the show here, Eric. We just heard from Mortimer Plum Tree.

Starting point is 00:43:21 He's introduced us to his new tag team, the Johnson's, and I can't wait for you to see them. Let's take a look. All right. First we had the lingerie set up. Now we got a couple of Johnson's. Now, who are the time away to the ring? Being led by Mortimer Palm Tree. At a combined weight of 632 pounds. They are Richard and Rod. So there you go. Richard and Rod the Johnson's. A couple of muscle bound team looks here caught in a time warp

Starting point is 00:44:03 according to Wade Keller. But yeah. What do you think here? Their gimmick is they come dressed to the ring like giant penises. Yes, that's correct. That is ridiculous. This is so bad.

Starting point is 00:44:17 This is so bad. Let me say this, though. Say what you will about the character Mortimer Plumman. tree. The guy performing it, he was working his ass off. No, I was going to ask you, Conrad, because this is the first time I've seen him or heard of him, he's actually pretty good. He is. I don't dig the gimmick. I mean, I don't hate it. It's just, but he's actually really pretty good on the mic. Totally agree. A guy out of Minnesota, big fan, had an opportunity to start doing some stuff in, I guess, the mid-90s. And then Jeremy Borash knew about him from his

Starting point is 00:44:52 days and, you know, growing up there in Minneapolis and reached out to him. And he became a player behind the scenes. And then obviously as the budget shrunk, his life changed and demanded, hey, man, I got to stop chasing my wrestling dream. I got to go home. So he did. But as silly as the gimmick is, the dude was committed to it. And speaking of committed to the gimmick, this is a very young James Storm from America's Most Wanted and beer money, but years before any of that or before we knew him like we do now. And check out what he's got here. I think you'll dig this. Let's track it here, Silva.

Starting point is 00:45:27 Okay, he's got a gun. Whoa. Hey, Ed, you got a man. You and I saw him in a one of the most things. How about that? So we can cut the audio. You saw he came out in the hat and had a duster. But then underneath that duster, my man had on two pistols,

Starting point is 00:45:41 fired them in the air. You get the sound. You get the smoke. That's pretty cool for an independent wrestling act. Is it not? I am impressed. Right? I am impressed.

Starting point is 00:45:51 impressed with young James Storm. How about that baby place? Again, talk about, you know, we always refer, not always, but occasionally we refer to things that you used to be able to do back then that you could never do today. Can you imagine somebody pulling out a replica pistol, a fake pistol and fired it in the ring? No.

Starting point is 00:46:10 But at the time, and again, this was kind of, you know, it was pay-per-view, right? And you can get away with a lot of pay-per-view that you couldn't get away with on television. You might not recognize it without the mask, but that's psychosis in the ring with those dicks there. Didn't recognize him. I saw the name, obviously, in a graphic,

Starting point is 00:46:30 but surprising he's in there without his lucha gimmick on. Wade would describe Mortimer Plumtree as a Jim Cornett-type persona. Clearly, he's trying to go for the rich, spoiled young guy idea. But my goodness, man, I thought he was a great performer, especially for a guy who we had never seen really on an accident. basis. Did he get in the ring or was he strictly a manager? Yeah, I'm not sure if he wrestled independence back of the day.

Starting point is 00:46:58 He or he was a manager though. And let's talk about the business here. Meltzer would write, at a time when more and more programming is being made available on an a la cart and on demand basis, the Jarrett's may be getting in on the ground floor of the next big technological programming advancement. They may also be victims of entering a market that isn't ripe,

Starting point is 00:47:19 cable companies are investing in expensive equipment in order to offer programming on demand. Direct TV is doing the same, announcing this week that their Stars Premium Movie Channel will be available with Video on Demand features. There are two hurdles that T&A needs to clear to be successful. The Jarrett's need to convince at least 50,000 wrestling fans that it's worth paying $9.95 per week to view their Wednesday night two-hour show, designed to be a hybrid between raw in a typical three-hour monthly pay-per-view. They also need to provide a product

Starting point is 00:47:52 that keeps those fans coming back for more. The Gerrits are banking on there being an appetite for an alternative wrestling product for a relatively small core group of loyal fans who can afford a $40 a month increase on their cable bills. So listen, I think Wade sort of nailed it. The Gerrits were probably ahead of their time in terms of thinking about a la carte stuff.

Starting point is 00:48:15 I mean, back then nobody had apps on there. you know, their smartphone. I mean, that wasn't a thing. Maybe you had a Blackberry back then. But still, you didn't have the ability to just press two buttons and bam, now I've got something. You've ordered something. That, of course, came along.

Starting point is 00:48:33 But I think, you know, everything in business you and I often say is timing. This is maybe an okay idea, but just bad timing here, right? No, it was just a bad idea. It wouldn't have, it didn't work then. And I wouldn't have $40 a month for a subpar wrestling program. I don't think so. I just don't see it. You have, I don't know how, and this is the reason why I had no interest in getting involved

Starting point is 00:49:04 or even having much of a conversation about getting involved. To me, you've got to have weekly television that drives you to separate you in your cash. You have to have a weekly storyline. something that's compelling that leads up to the event that you're willing to pay for and trying to create that episodic build to something big with a weekly $10 pay-per-view. Now, I don't think it was as much ahead of its time. Again, it's going to sound critical, but this is how I felt that and I haven't changed my opinion, but I just don't think having a weekly paper.

Starting point is 00:49:46 view without strong episodic structure would ever work. I didn't think it would work then and I don't think it would work now. Well, you didn't know what the episodic structure was. So, you hadn't seen it yet. So how would you know what is that? I haven't seen it yet, but how, here's my point, though. You're basically asking people to pay $10 a week for something they could get for free. And the product you're delivering is without question, less than.

Starting point is 00:50:16 I don't see a strategy then well my point was the timing is bad I mean WCW's last pay per review did 50,000 buys so we're thinking that we can start a promotion here and get to 50,000 buys

Starting point is 00:50:34 I know it's $10 versus $30 but still WCW had incredible television and a huge legacy and a lot of brand equity even if it was on the decline as a brand versus an absolute startup with no television thinking, well, we can get the same number of people to buy this.

Starting point is 00:50:53 That's the critical flaw to me. But, you know, people are and still do purchase wrestling paper views, you know, sort of on demand for stuff that they don't get to see regularly. New Japan comes to mind. And I understand we're saying, yeah, but it's a much smaller number. No arguing there. My point is if WCW with all their television could only, do 50,000.

Starting point is 00:51:17 How could we think we could do more than 50,000? Hey, the dicks go over. I don't know if you saw that. Did you see that the dicks went over there? Yeah, I saw that. Yep. And that's Ryan Shamrock, by the way, from, from W. Um, programming.

Starting point is 00:51:32 And she's, uh, confronting the referee here. That's Slick Johnson from WCW? It is indeed. And he's, uh, paying her. And we don't know exactly what that is. I think her real name is Alicia Webb, but both of the, those folks recently on national television

Starting point is 00:51:50 and now backstage here's Goldilocks with the Dups. Let's track it. Sure. Oh, yeah. Love, I actually... What are we looking at here, buddy? Those are the Dups. Well, I'm going to go take something right now, so. You want me to real quick. You're going that way.

Starting point is 00:52:10 Sure, absolutely. Okay. Oh. Hi, uh, which one is she? Well, you got, well, she's beau's girlfriend, and I told you, she's my girlfriend. Okay. Yeah, there you go. Oh, hey, hey, hey, guys, guys, guys, guys.

Starting point is 00:52:28 I'm sorry, no, there's no beer drinking here in the locker room. I need you to put those things down. We don't want any intoxicated wrestlers out in our ring, so just put those things down right now. Thank you. Gee, there, some wussies here in the NWA. Hey, Bo, whoever heard of getting drunk. this guy's not bad that's Trevor Murdoch wow I didn't even recognize him

Starting point is 00:52:54 his name here was stand up he was talking to his brother bowed up and I think that lady with him was fluffed up and I think there's a pucked up a jacked up there's lots of dups Is this like a Duke Dukes of Hazard thing

Starting point is 00:53:11 Bo Duk Luke Duke clearly Daisy Duke of course she was dressed like Daisy dude. Okay. I get it. But Trevor Murdoch, I mean, very young, Trevor Murdoch. He was pretty good on the mic for being as green as he was. And, of course, T&A is enjoying some relationships with NASCAR. That's Hermie Sadler on the left there. And I think that's Sterling Marlin on the right. That's pretty cool. Jeff Jarrett's ties, obviously, to his NASCAR friends. That's exactly right. Pretty cool. And it's a nice time. I mean, listen, they're trying to, you know, court some attention.

Starting point is 00:53:48 And obviously NASCAR enjoyed an explosion of popularity in the 90s. And I think it's probably been on the decline a little bit in more recent years. But it was a hot television property and you are in the South and we're going to lean into that. The thing is, is NASCAR popular in Alabama? I don't know. I don't know a single person that watches it, but they still do Talladega here and draw hundreds of thousands of people. So somebody's watching it.

Starting point is 00:54:14 Oh, somebody's watching it for sure. And I think, you know, NASCAR was still pretty hot. What year is this? 2002. 2002. Yeah. And NASCAR was still pretty hot, 2002, even as a television. It has declined.

Starting point is 00:54:27 And I think a lot of that has to do, my opinion, again, whatever it's worth. It was just, it got hot so fast that there was a period of about two or three years where you couldn't turn on a television on the weekend without seeing NASCAR coverage. It was everywhere. track it here i want you to hear wrong killings i'm sick and tired of hearing about some damn race car driver thank you k rush this is professional wrestling you guys call yourself athletes you got no damn business inside a professional wrestling ring All right. Jeremy's apologize, Mr. Sterling. You see that? Look at that. He's a suck-up. I am an athlete. You're looking at an athlete. My kind are athletes. Your kind drive a car around a circle in a left motion continuously.

Starting point is 00:55:30 Whoa. My kind. We thought basketballs. We throw touchdowns. We run for touchdowns. We do arm drops. We do leg drops. My grandmother can do what you do. Don't you shut up just one second. My grandmother can do what you do.

Starting point is 00:55:48 Come on, Hervey. Bring it, Herry. Anybody here to take you serious looking like you look. You look like a real athlete. Amen. I'm coming from an answer driver. I love it. I love it.

Starting point is 00:56:03 Apparently you don't know. just who we are. But they are lots of NASCAR fans in Humphill, Alabama. You got that right. Testify. And they know we're athletes. I need me some boiled peanuts

Starting point is 00:56:17 listening to the hermy. Damn you and damn Alabama. I'm going to introduce you to professional wrestling. All right. Now it's getting good. Oh, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa. Kate crush. Hey, way to have your buddy's back, Sterling, Martin.

Starting point is 00:56:39 You just stand in there watching. The son of Jerry Lawler has come from the back. I like this segment. So we can cut it there, but they're setting up a match for next week between Brian Christopher or Brian Lawler, depending on which of the announcers you paid more attention to, where he's going to be taken on Kay Crush, which is what we're calling Ron Killings.

Starting point is 00:57:01 And I got to tell you, when this first episode of this show was over, my uncle and I were convinced, hey, Ron Killings, he's going to be a big deal in wrestling. And I've thought for a long time, he could have been a top guy. He's got natural charisma. He's in great shape. He's got a great look. He's a good promo. He's believable.

Starting point is 00:57:20 I think there was a lot more upside even than what Vince got out of Ron Killings. What say you? I absolutely agree. One of my favorite performers was when I was in Smackdown last time, R&W. WWE last time, clearly here, you know, early on in his career or probably, because he's, you know, he's been around for a minute, certainly 21 years younger, but he looks fantastic. He's great on the mic. Believable character.

Starting point is 00:57:45 I mean, look at him. He's staying in character strong here. I mean, you believe him. He looks pissed off. Yes. He makes me feel like he's pissed off. That's the talent. Brian did a good job in there as well.

Starting point is 00:57:58 Yeah. I mean, listen, you've got, again, he's a television star. that we recognize and I guess at this point killings had had been you know with the wv for a cup of coffee but he's available again and I just think there's a ton of upside with this guy he looks like a star he's in phenomenal shape he's got great fracials he's a good promo he's good in the ring but you know here's something you might not have known this show almost didn't happen Eric the just but they did a dark match before they went live on paper view here just to get the crowd into it

Starting point is 00:58:31 as you would. And they had a jumbo-sized performer named Cheeks who was in there. And, uh, well, the ring broke. And so as we were starting and the fireworks are going off, you could see people like on the ramp trying to get out of the way. We're going backstage here. We see Jackie Fargo getting choked out by Jeff Jarrett. Uh, a very young Rudy Charles getting in the middle. And there's Scott Armstrong. My point is, the damn ring broke there was not a backup ring it's not like well we'll just get it out of the way we're like minutes to going live on pay per view for our very first show and the ring broke i mean what was what was the pucker factor going on backstage with the jurors at that

Starting point is 00:59:19 point it had to be 10 out of 10 so they're doing the legends thing and they're still trying to make sure this ring is okay uh so it all worked out and and and they pulled it together but man, what could have been? Can you imagine your first impression is of this new show? We don't have a ring? Yeah, that would be horrible. And then you've got to go through the entire show hoping that it doesn't happen again, right?

Starting point is 00:59:42 Yeah. I think the ring is good. I think it's going to hold up. That would have been really stressful, say the least. Out there, what we just saw is Christian York and Joey Matthews. These guys had a ton of buzz online for years. A lot of people were waiting on them to have their big moment

Starting point is 00:59:59 and their big opportunity. They had spent a little bit of time in sort of the dying days of ECW. And here we see Stand Up, who we know these days is Trevor Murdoch, walking to the ring, holding the hand of his valet, fluffed up,

Starting point is 01:00:12 and in the hat behind him, bowed up. And Bowdo up is going to make some headlines, as I understand it. He winds up in a relationship with Stacey Carter, Jerry Lawler's ex-wife, and that becomes kind of a controversy, thing, but there you go, a very young Trevor Murdox.

Starting point is 01:00:32 So we're going to get the dups against Christian York and Joey Matthews. They don't get a ton of time, three minutes and 41 seconds. Wade would say good action, but too short to be much of a match. The dups are a bit too bushwhacker to be taken seriously, but maybe good for mid card laughs. What do you think of that? Do you think there's a place for teams like the flying Elvis's or the dups, like a real gimmick tag team? Could that still work in 2020?

Starting point is 01:01:00 Sure. Sure, if it's part of, you know, if it's part of a balanced presentation, absolutely. You do need to have that kind of lighthearted, almost comedic, if not comedic type of presentation along the way. You can't have every match for two hours or every character on a show for two hours, be intense and serious and dangerous and threatening. You do need to lighten it up in order to maximize those opportunities when you do have that. tense action. You know, Dusty Rhodes talked about it all the time. I've often said that, you know, wrestling is like a buffet. You've got to have a little bit of something for everyone. You can't open a buffet and have nothing but roast beef because some people like other things. Some people like barbecue chicken. Some people like pork chops. You've got to have some people like salads. You need

Starting point is 01:01:48 to have a little bit of everything. And I think there certainly is a place even today for a good comedic team. You know, there's nothing worse than bad music except for bad comedy. And you've got to be a little bit careful with it. But when you've got a team that are good at it, any audiences with it, absolutely there's a place for it. Toby Keith is going to be on this program too. This is the era, just to remind everybody, this is 2002. So 9-11 is

Starting point is 01:02:19 still less than a year old and at the top of a lot of our minds. He had that famous song where he talked about putting a boot in their ass and blah, blah, blah, and it became a controversial. Still one of my favorite songs. I heard yesterday on my way into town. Love that song.

Starting point is 01:02:37 It was controversial at the time. Like Peter Jennings was, you know, anti and there was a lot of talking heads on TV who were sort of the same way. And Toby Keith just happens to be a real life friend of Jeff Jarrett. So he's actually going to perform that song live here. on stage at the pay per view that's a pretty big damn deal right there it did feel like a big deal live like i don't think we knew that was going to happen and i remember thinking man this is this is a pretty big deal especially when you consider this is all being funded effectively

Starting point is 01:03:08 out of jeff and jerry's pocket like there's not some big major funding behind it yet the health south thing was still around the corner but it hadn't yet happened um so this is just you know Jarrett's personal cash here, booking a big building, booking a big roster, lots of talent here, the NASCAR Association, and then Toby Keith, I mean,

Starting point is 01:03:28 who at the time was one of the hottest acts in all of music? I mean, that's a big deal for old Jeffro to pull off here. Yeah, and I'd like to talk to Jeff about that because, you know, obviously his relationship with Toby,

Starting point is 01:03:42 you know, got Toby willing to do the show, but there had to be some licensing and publishing rights. and assume that Toby had a record deal with somebody, which meant that the publisher would be standing there with his handout or her handout as well. So, yeah, I mean, that was a big, that was a big decision, a good one, but that was a big decision. Did you see much of Christian York or Joey Matthews? Nope.

Starting point is 01:04:14 Nope. Really talented in-ring performers. but look, it's all about the story. The Dupps steal the win. Bluff pushed him off. He crouched himself. Bo rolled him up. There it is.

Starting point is 01:04:29 The Dups picking up a win. I think we're overselling it a little bit there. Oh, my God. That's what they did, man. Bo would pick his nose and pick his butt and eat both. Oh, uh, all right. They're taking a break. We will, too.

Starting point is 01:04:46 of course, Beau starts his day every day with a booger. Eric starts his day every day with a different kind of green. Athletic greens, of course, we're talking about AG1. We absolutely love AG1. Both Eric and I have been taking it for years. We really, really believe in it. And here's the thing, man, I got to admit, when my wife first introduced this to me,

Starting point is 01:05:09 back before the pandemic, I was like, I don't know. I tried it. Dude, it tastes great. So she found a way to, make taking pills or vitamins easy. It's also going to help with your energy, with your immune system. It's going to help you have more focus and more clarity. My wife doesn't on her way to the gym every day. She feels like she's more effective there. I feel like I can stay sharper longer. I don't have that afternoon crash. I don't feel like I'm zoning out. I feel like I'm more

Starting point is 01:05:36 productive. I really do believe that it has helped my mental clarity. My wife swears it has improved her digestion and I know for sure I have more sustained energy. I mean, I can keep going and going and going at work, whereas before I might be like, I need a power now. This is, think of this as like your all-in-one nutritional insurance. You know, it's going to be good for what ails you, as my grandfather used to say. Let me explain. It's just one scoop and a cup of water every day, and you'll set yourself up for success

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Starting point is 01:06:40 Eric, you don't even travel without AG1. It's a regular part of your life, right? It is. And by the way, if anybody follows me on social media and takes a look at some of the people that I follow, I'm clearly very, very interested in nutrition. And I think one of the exciting things that we've seen over the last couple of years, especially, and I think as a result of COVID, is more and more people focusing on preventative nutrition, preventative issues, as opposed to interventions. most of most of the doctors here's a here's a funny piece of information you know that 75 or 80 percent of the medical schools in america require absolutely no training in nutrition all of all of the medical training most of the medical training in this country is all about intervention how to fix something that's broke and don't get me wrong you know i was recently on you know the receiving end of some great intervention a couple months ago so i'm not

Starting point is 01:07:39 not putting down the medical community at all, but it's just a fact that 75% of the medical schools of the United States and the doctors that come out of them have no nutritional training whatsoever. That's just not where the emphasis has been in research and funding and that type of type because there's a lot more money in pharmaceuticals. But over the last couple of years, more and more doctors are coming out and scientists are coming out and really studying the effects of particularly gut health on, And its effect on nutrition, specifically on preventative issues and your immune system. I can tell you from personal experience that when, if I miss my dosage of AG1, I take it first thing every morning, cold water, first thing I do when I get out of bed, I'm not as clear mentally.

Starting point is 01:08:30 And I've always known that, but I never understood why in doing the research, because to me it's a hobby. You know, it's not anything other than that. and I just like to have information things. But so many of the hormones and the things that your brain needs to function at its very best are a result of a healthy gut biome. And having a healthy gut digestive system allows for the nutrients that you do take in to metabolize more effectively and more efficiently and feed your needs better, including your brain health.

Starting point is 01:09:05 And I think that's one of the reasons why you notice it. Certainly the reason I notice it. But I think the emphasis on gut health and your digestive system is such a big part of your overall health and mental well-being. I encourage people if you don't believe me, if you're not convinced by the fact that Conrad and I use it and love this product and have used it and loved it before they came a sponsor, do a little bit of research. You'd be glad you did. And you'll see the benefits of AG1. you really will and it doesn't take weeks or months you'll notice it right away

Starting point is 01:09:39 I did five free AG1 travel packs and a one year supply of immune supporting vitamin D check it out drinkag1.com slash 83 weeks that's drinkag1.com slash 83 weeks let's get back to our TNA program in three two one play

Starting point is 01:10:02 we remind you that yet to come in this broadcast the gauntlet through the gold but first let's take a look at the CMA male vocalist of the year mr. Toby Keith so we can pull it down now but this is uh Toby Keith's hit video and then we're going to come back from this and he's going to start singing and damn it that Jeff cheer he's going to get involved wouldn't you know it and then we're going to start our gauntlet for the gold we're going to cramble a new NWA World Heavyweight Champion here. So far, Eric, as far as a first effort for a first T&A show, what are you thinking? Aside from, you know, some of the issues that we brought up earlier, I love the pacing.

Starting point is 01:10:49 I think it's great pacing. I think we started out hot. Jeff Jarrett came in really, really hot. I don't know that I would have started the show out with a six-man tag, but that's subjective. just taste and opinion. But overall, the scale of 1 to 10, at this point, I'm looking at an 8, given the context of what they were doing and what they were able to do financially.

Starting point is 01:11:13 I'm glad you like it because I'll be honest. As a fan in the crowd, I thought, man, this is pretty good. You know, I mean, there was definitely a hole in my fandom. Like, I used to go to ECW shows with my uncle, and there is no more ECW, and there is no more Nitro. And, you know, we're looking, for something else in addition to Monday Night Raw. I think a lot of us felt like we were in a bit of a rut.

Starting point is 01:11:36 Jeremy Borash was not in a rut, though. We have let it go long enough. I got to bring it up. What do you think about those blonde highlights that Borash is rocking there? You know, whenever you look back at something 20 years in the past, it's inevitable that you're going to go, ooh, why did I do that? When I see pictures of myself from some of the stuff I did on television, like, ooh, Why did I dress like that?

Starting point is 01:12:00 Or why did I let that happen? But, you know, at the time, it was probably pretty hip, pretty currants. And Jeremy was a young guy. So, you know, I wouldn't have done it, but I get why he did. And I'm not put off by it. It's funny. I got to bust his balls about it. I want you to see the moment where Jeff comes in, though.

Starting point is 01:12:20 So we'll go ahead and track a little bit of this Toby Keith song and try to be careful not to get ourselves a YouTube strike. Yeah. so if you're not a huge country music fan you might not remember this song but there is one part that wrestling fans or music fans love to sing along with and Jeff Jarrett is going to play spoiler here and well it's going to be pretty entertaining

Starting point is 01:12:54 I'll say that we'll bring it back up here It'll feel like the whole wide world is raining down on you. I mean, that looks pretty good for a 2002 set right there on the wide shot, doesn't it? Yes, it does. They definitely made the most with the resources they had. You've got to give them credit for that. No doubt about it. No doubt about it.

Starting point is 01:13:46 And Toby Keith, man, big star. You know, interesting note on Toby Keith and in a relationship with Jeff Jarrett, I don't know a lot about it, but I do know that towards the end of TNA before it was sold to the current, I think, an anthem. as a company who owns it now. That's right. Jeff was making a play to try to acquire TNA from the Carters. And if I recall correctly, I could get this wrong because I wasn't involved in the discussions.

Starting point is 01:14:12 But I was talking to Jeff at the time about possibly getting involved. And from what I recall, Toby Keith came fairly close. Yeah, we actually talked about it on his podcast, My World, recently, not too long ago. I told the whole story of how it almost happened. We gave some context to my man's network. Look at there. Let's track it here.

Starting point is 01:14:52 I love this. I love this. I wouldn't want to take a little upset. What is his problem? angle with toby keith's a big dude he's a big dude he looks like he could go he's a country boy that's probably been around the block of time or two nobody wants to hear that damn thought so take your angry american ass right out of here speak for your shock jerry oh it's time to get the main of big going you hold your ass straight

Starting point is 01:15:19 out of here i've got a long title to win so beat it pal I've just got a few words for you and everybody in this building. How do you like me now? So we can pull it down, but there you can see the table set. You know, listen, you know, the cutting the song off before they got to play the big song in a market that clearly loves country music like Huntsville, Alabama does. And then, you know, less. remember, there is this whole, you know,

Starting point is 01:16:00 sense of renewed patriotism that exists in 2002. And that song is about America. It's not about, you know, your dog dying and your girlfriend leaving you and your truck breaking down or whatever. This is about America. And so when you come out and you cut that off, like Jeff Jarrett wants to make sure there is nothing likable about him. And look at there.

Starting point is 01:16:18 How about that for another star from yesterday year? Buff Bagwell is the first guy in the ring with Jeff Jarrett here and the gaunt for the gold stars. This is so much fun. I mean, I just, damn, I didn't know Bagwell to spend any time at all in Tina. It's a who's who. I won't necessarily spoil all the other names, but here they are. And you see we've got the clock in the bottom right hand corner.

Starting point is 01:16:40 We're trying our best to make you think about the Royal Rumble here because that's a style that, you know, fans are familiar with. And I don't mind this at all, whether it's a derivative of Royal Rumble or not. I love the structure. I mean, it's kind of implied stakes. You got to get the job done while you got the time. I love the idea of a shot clock, if you will, for wrestling. I think it's a good idea.

Starting point is 01:17:04 I love that you called it that. Because that's exactly the way I always looked at it is shot clock. You know, I mean, I was familiar with that from basketball. So when we started to see it in wrestling, it's like, okay, I'm ready for this. You know, oftentimes you hear me talk about structure or lack thereof. And this is an example. It's, look, in the big scheme of things, does it really matter all that much? No, but it's another little thing that you can do.

Starting point is 01:17:27 that provides context for the viewer and helps them engage and understand and ask themselves question during the course of the batch. I love it. I think it's a great idea. So Buff Bagwell has already been eliminated. He's out of there, short night for Buff. Let's do some questions. We asked some questions on social media or asked for some questions on social media.

Starting point is 01:17:51 Instagram, a wrestling historian, wants to know. What was your reaction when you heard that Jarrett's were starting a wrestling company? So I guess what I want to ask there is, Eric, had you heard that they might be doing something before you actually got the call? Sure. What was your impression of that? I didn't have much of an, you know, I didn't know much about what they were planning until I got the phone call. I didn't dismiss it at all. I just wasn't at that point in time real interested in the wrestling business.

Starting point is 01:18:21 I was focused on my life after wrestling. and I just kind of took a wait and see approach to it. We see Lash Leroux, another WCW guy out of Gadsden, Alabama, in here number three behind Buff Bagwell. Of course, Jeff was number one. Lash Leroo is a part of what we do every month over at ad-freeshows.com. He'll be a top guy weekend this weekend as well. My man can draw.

Starting point is 01:18:48 He can draw his butt off. What a talented, talented dude. Yes. He is really talented. His work is pretty phenomenal. I did an episode on Ed Free Show's, a bonus episode where during the course of the episode, we're interviewing, we're talking, we had fans there that are part of the Ad Free Show's family and lashes, drawing.

Starting point is 01:19:09 And like, he's not only really good. He's really fast at what he does. It was kind of fun to watch. I admire people who have that artistic skill. I can draw a box, some basic shapes, circle. triangle norman smile yeah man how about that another big star from wcw my uncle's favorite i'm not even kidding he absolutely loved the big wiggle and here's the big wiggle himself he's entrant number four look at there look at the fans little dance gets a pop man i don't care also got them popped

Starting point is 01:19:44 in the mouth yeah yeah yeah timing is everything right isn't it crazy uh as we're talking about this because I don't know that you've put two and two together, but this show is exactly, as folks are listening to this, 21 years old today, June 19th. So this show is 21 years old, meaning if a baby was born on that day,

Starting point is 01:20:07 he can legally drink beer today. That's how old this thing is. And WCW, I mean, think about that. This thing lasted at this point, like double the time that WCW did, like 13 years longer than ECW did,

Starting point is 01:20:21 ECW did like impact wrestling man you just can't can't kill it it's still still chugging along indeed it is kudos to those who are keeping the brand alive the torch would catch up with Jerry Jarrett after the show and he says the fact that the show even took place as a blessing considering the ring broke five minutes before we went on the air it almost caused me to have a heart attack we were under the gun I've been moving nonstop for two days. My brain is fried, but I'm looking forward to sitting back and watching a tape at home. We have a week to produce the pre-tape second show in two weeks to learn from this first taping and plan out the third show. We'll be talking to everybody. You can't build

Starting point is 01:21:07 Rome in a day. And when asked about, you know, what the pay-review companies were saying, he says, overwhelming success was the language they used. We won't really know anything until Friday. um so there you go we know that the fix is in jossman has been blowing smoke and and this is just not good but that's apollo from porto rico who i got to tell you i thought looked like a star here when this is my first introduction to apollo in 2002 i thought man that's a big dude and great shape this might be uh he might be a player for these guys and of course i know since that he had quite a run for himself down in Puerto Rico. Have you ever spent any time looking at Apollo or seeing any of his stuff?

Starting point is 01:21:52 Absolutely zero. Interesting. Whatever. I mean, beyond Puerto Rico, did he ever spending time at WWE? No. Is he still active now?

Starting point is 01:22:02 I don't think so. Yeah. We'll go that in the old Google machine and see. It's interesting. I mean, because he does have a great look in his work while somewhat basic is also somewhat flawless. looks pretty good.

Starting point is 01:22:18 48 years old, still with us. I guess he's still doing a little bit here and there, but see where he's doing a ton these days. Yeah, I mean, he had several stints with T&A, 2002 and then again in 2004, and then again in 2005 and 6. And I think the rap was occasionally, he was, as J.R might call it, unreliable.

Starting point is 01:22:42 And here comes K Crush or K-Quick or R-Trueck or R-True. or whatever you want to call him. It's Ron Killings. He's in their nice. Great punches, Ron. Great punches. Do you know, that's a move that I'm beginning to hate now is, you know, the big sweeping clothes line.

Starting point is 01:23:01 And when the guys throw clothes lines so often now, they're throwing them like they're trying to dunk a basketball and trying to take somebody's head off. Yes. I just think that's so over you. It just completely takes me out of the ball. Just so ridiculous looking. the report when that's when it's done well it's it looks great and i see it done not well so

Starting point is 01:23:25 consistently the um the gerrits are going to say that the paper views are going to be held every week from nashville moving forward and um they had less than thousand tickets sold before this paper view here in huntsville the debut so they distributed 10,000 coupons trying to just get folks in here to make it look good for the pay-per-view. That's a kiss of death. Yeah.

Starting point is 01:23:56 So there's 1,500 who show up with free tickets, a little less than 1,000, I guess, with paid tickets. So it's a decent looking crowd, which is what I recall. But again, this is something where, you know, T&A at the time, I think, here in Huntsville was running commercials on Monday Night Raw. They had a handful of billboards here in town. But it was kind of a secret. And to your point, you know, that's why you need TV.

Starting point is 01:24:19 And here comes Father Mitchell and that's Wolfie D. And I think he's using a different name here. I forget what it is off the top of my head. Hey, Dylan Leahy had a question for you, Eric. This goes from social media. Has Eric ever had much interaction with Ken Shamrock? No, I met Ken. Actually, I think the first conversation I've ever had with Ken took place at a convention

Starting point is 01:24:44 several years ago, and it was a very brief flow. He was busy doing autographs, and I was walking on my way to go do autographs. We noticed each other, and it was just a very brief flow. But no, I never, other than that moment, never really crossed past with him. I could have seen you really going with him in WCW. Do you think, why was that never on the radar?

Starting point is 01:25:07 I don't know. I don't know that he ever approached me, and I don't think that we ever, you know, we had tank, you know, that was kind of as much of that vibe as I was looking for at the time. But Shamrock may have never been interested in coming to WCW. I just didn't feel that there was a hole in a roster for something like Ken at that time. I wish I would have.

Starting point is 01:25:31 You know, I kind of regret that looking more closely at him because he is, he was, he is still a good character. I'm a fan, you know, whenever I see in the interview with him now talking about MMA and I've seen some And, you know, documentaries and things about his past and his, his career in MMA and very impressive guy, very, I love his story, both he and his brother, adopted, you know, being raised in California and had such a great relationship with their adoptive father. And I love the background of the story and there's something there to work with. So I would have looked close around him. So if you're watching along with us, you probably did a double take and said, wait, is that

Starting point is 01:26:11 Scott Steiner? No, that's Del Rios. doing his best big pop and pump pump cosplay. As I understand it, Scott Steiner was, he has been friends with Jeff Jarrett for a long, long time and was sort of back and forth about will he or won't he come in.

Starting point is 01:26:26 Ultimately, he does not. But you see a guy out here with similar looking trunks, got the Superman S on the back, got the platinum blonde hair, got the shades, clearly going for a big pop-a-pump rip-off look. That's still Rios. And Wolfie D here is wrestling as Slash.

Starting point is 01:26:43 So, and I think you might actually recognize the next person who comes out. I'll let you see if you can figure out who it is. But Del Rios to me at the time, I remember thinking, okay, that's kind of lame. Like if we can't get the real Scott Steiner, we'll just dress a guy up like they do overseas. Yeah, that's, you're starting out in, you're starting out in the mud. You're going to have a hard time getting that mud off. It's just, I mean, just isn't going to accept. yeah i mean this unless scott siders coming out to kick his ass for doing it nobody's going to buy it

Starting point is 01:27:18 you learn that the hard way with the renegade i think true tell me tell me look at justice here you recognize justice whoa abyss whoa long before he was abyss he's just justice from porto rico and yeah man this is a guy who i saw wrestle for bill barons over in cornea of Georgia, and now he's got his opportunity at a big platform or so he hopes. And of course, we know eventually he becomes Abyss and has quite a career, man. Certainly a bona fide TNA Hall of Famer. Well, he looks good here too. He looks excellent.

Starting point is 01:27:59 Different gear, different presentation, totally. And I like this so much better than the Abisca. I know I always beat up on it. I think I hurt, I think I hurt his feelings. You know, whenever I see this, I still call this. Whenever I see Chris at WWE, because whenever I occasionally once or twice a year make an appearance, I'll see him backstage. He's the sweetest guy ever meet.

Starting point is 01:28:22 He is just the nicest person. And he's incredibly intelligent, but he is ultra, ultra, ultra sensitive. Like, beyond anything I've ever experienced. Yeah, me and Eric Bustis, or you're Eric, me and Jeff and I. I'll get it out eventually. We bust his balls all the time. Every chance we get on Jeff's show because they're big, you know,

Starting point is 01:28:46 sports fans. And so we go back and forth on some of his terrible sports takes. And man, I think even we went too far there where I had to like walk it back like side texting like, hey man, we were just busting balls. My bad.

Starting point is 01:28:57 I didn't mean there to be a dick. Like I thought we were just kidding around. So I actually experienced what you're talking about there accidentally where I felt bad like, oh man, I was just playing my bad. Yeah. And it's like, you know, the abysic.

Starting point is 01:29:09 character never worked for me, but Chris Park, the person, the talent, amazingly talented guy and extremely intelligent, cannot sell him short when it comes to brainpower. He's a very bright young man. And a great agent, great producer.

Starting point is 01:29:29 How about Conan in there too? Conan looking good. My brother'd be looking good, doesn't he? Dude, he looks like a million bucks here in 2002. Shout out to Conan. I hope you're feeling well, one of the biggest stars in the history of wrestling that I don't think always gets his just do but dude over like rover in Mexico I mean I'll take a look at some of the story is amazing isn't it it is really you research and you follow his path

Starting point is 01:29:55 his ascension of the business and what he experienced pretty amazing story really no doubt and there you see father Mitchell he of course Managing Slash here. Not a big fan. Not a big Father Mitchell guy? That whole devil satanic vibe is, and I'm not like I'm hypersensitive to the type of character in movies and that type of thing. I mean,

Starting point is 01:30:30 it's not a religious ideological thing. I just think it was so 70s and just not. Oh, let's track Joel Gertner here. I chase anything in a skirt and I get right up in that dress. I'm going to be with five girls in Huntsville because I don't settle for less. I'm going to tear up the hotel room and make the bed sheets a mess. But first, I got some business with the Rainbow Express. So while all you girls are thinking about drinking a jug of joy juice, let me introduce.

Starting point is 01:31:08 and all you clowns get your asses ready for the man they call Bruce from the Rainbow Express yeah so there you go the Rainbow Express Lenny and Bruce yeah it was what it was again we're seeing some WCW talent here and of course we all remember Joel Gertner from ECW but I don't know about that bit right in the middle of a battle royal right in the middle of a battle royal that might not have been in the best spot it wouldn't have been the best spot anywhere this is freaking horrible yeah this is this is actually embarrassing it's going to get better one of your friends is coming coming in in a minute you know you don't put up a little setup by joel gerter

Starting point is 01:32:03 i mean this man for a tag match that would have been fine in the middle of a battle royal where we're showing him do the limerick instead of the action in the ring i don't know about this is just freaking horrible the other thing that's tough is because it's all trademarked music there's no iconic music where you hear it and you're like oh it's that guy we got to retrain the audience to that but they know him when they see him here he comes rick steiner maybe he'll get in there and throw out his fake brother here's another one had no idea of rick step foot in a T&A ring. He was actually a tag team with Scott

Starting point is 01:32:41 against the Dudley's there much later, but he had the very first show. Jeff knew who to call some of his old pals. And look, there he is. Get out of here, fake brother. Steiner line for Del Rios. Listen, it's a 30-something minute battle royal.

Starting point is 01:32:57 I guess they go 37 minutes and 37 seconds. And then, uh, yeah. it's a 30 minute battle royal that went 37 minutes well there's a seven minute match after okay it gets down once it gets down to the the last couple of folks here uh we're gonna have then then the titles on the line there goes justice with a big bump that couldn't have felt good got he looked good back then didn't he holy cow

Starting point is 01:33:24 the matthew podcast network wants to know would you have ever brought the johnson's to WCW. No. You're more of a more of a ding-don guy yourself. Neither. I mean, I don't know what they look like under the mask. I don't know what the working ability or promo ability was.

Starting point is 01:33:51 But yeah, to bring two muscled up guys to the ring dressed like dicks. I would. Another one of your WCW guys. There comes Mal. Who was he at WCW? The wall. Oh, okay. Yeah, that was,

Starting point is 01:34:10 that wasn't, I swear that was another guy that came into WCW, either towards the end of my first run or. Yeah, he was late. Yeah, he was late for sure. We,

Starting point is 01:34:24 we got a bunch of folks hanging out over in the group chat. If you guys have a question, that's one of the best parts about being a member of ad free shows.com. You get to be a part of our live studio audience. So by all means, if you've got a question for Eric, hit it here. I want to give a shout out to Donovius Mac and little Jimmy Sorensen and so many of our friends who are Bobby, some of our friends who are going to be here in Huntsville at the end of the week. It's Top Guy weekend, be here before you know it. But if you guys have a question about this first T&A show, to ask us there in the chat and

Starting point is 01:34:57 old Dave Silva will star it for us. Boy, kind of got a little lazy elimination there. Rick Steiner and Mal is still in there Apollo with Jeff Jarrett and I think we've got a surprise that you'll like here momentarily I love me a good surprise I always have feels like added value you know whenever you give the audience something that they didn't expect they didn't know about didn't see coming couldn't predict it's just like really great added value it usually leaves a good taste in the audience this mouth.

Starting point is 01:35:34 Apollo skin and the cat. So it's Apollo, Malice, and Jarrett. They're waiting to see who this last guy is. And there it is. Scott Hall, a guy who we all think about this time of year. It's hard to believe that, you know, on your birthday of all days,

Starting point is 01:35:50 since the day he changed, or you guys changed professional wrestling forever, his debut on Nitro. And then, man, think about that, really. Just a handful of years later, he's in TNA and WCWs no more. That's just, Scott's looking really good here.

Starting point is 01:36:07 You know, Scott would have his ups and downs depending on what he was going through. But, you know, even in his promo, I could tell in that promo, that was a clear-headed Scott. He looks great.

Starting point is 01:36:17 He's moving great. This is before, you know, I think injuries started taking their toll on, I don't even know if it was injuries as much, it was just wear and tear. I don't think Scott was hurt very often, if at all.

Starting point is 01:36:29 But, you know, the wear and tear. eventually it's your hip your hips your knees your back are the first things to go it seems and scott's not showing any sign of it here he looks fantastic what's crazy to me think about is it was like six years prior to this when he changed wrestling forever when he debuted on nitro and of course that was the the seeds of the NWO six years later after they had been to the top of the mountain and beating WCWE WCW is not even a thing anymore just man life comes at you pretty fast like six years ago from now would be 2017 it's hard to think

Starting point is 01:37:07 about somebody changing the wrestling business six years ago and now it's doing let's track it look of this look who's back oh be nobody's making himself an entry what is he doing in there he has no business in there right in the face of Jeff gerard what is this is Toby Keith has That's awesome. He's got my favorite country Western superstar. He is the angry American. Toby Keith should be banned from this building.

Starting point is 01:37:45 Scott Hall loved country music too. I mean, he loved all kinds of music. Now, he certainly into hip-hop and rap back in the day. WCW and NWO was hot. But he also, I think because of the influence, that Kurt Henning had on them. Yes. That's what we were together in AWA was when I first remember seeing Scott Hall.

Starting point is 01:38:05 Long before I ever imagined, I'd stumble into the wrestling business. But Kurt was a huge, huge country music fan. Scott was too. So I imagine Scott enjoyed this moment. I'm sure a lot of people just assumed, well, it's Jeff Jarrett's promotion, and he was the first guy out cutting promos. I see all the backstage skits. He interrupts Toby Keith.

Starting point is 01:38:28 he's going to win the doggone thing that doesn't happen he's eliminated by both scott hall and toby keith now we're down to just three guys waiting on our next guy it's uh malice apollo and scott hall and i think you'll be uh happy to see who comes out next it's a young chris harris again this is before he's hooked up with james storm before america's most wanted a Nashville boy or at least a Tennessee boy getting his due here that's a pretty big time spot to go from working Nashville Independence for Bert Prentice

Starting point is 01:39:06 and now you're in the same ring with Scott Hall and insides the Vampire Warrior who we know as Gangrel on WWF programming so got a handful of folks left I think Steve Carrino Ken Shamrock and Brian Christopher will round us out We got another question here from Francis Reyes, who says, Eric, what talent were you most surprised was on this pay-per-view?

Starting point is 01:39:31 I think Scott Hall surprised me the most. Rick and Jeff, Rick Steiner has always been a tight with Jeff, so that one's not surprising. But, yeah, I would say Scott Hall, seeing Scott Hall there's kind of a shocker. Scott could be, you know, it's so much dependent on his mood and what was going on in his life at the time, but he could be sometimes apathetic

Starting point is 01:40:00 about an opportunity like this. So things must have been going well for Scott at this point in time. It's been a decent frame of mind. Ooh, that was ugly wall. Did you get to see much Steve Carino? No. certainly I was aware of him. I heard his name often,

Starting point is 01:40:23 but I didn't get a chance. I didn't go out of my way to check him out. I didn't see a lot of it. Here comes a friend of the show, Devin Storm, who you had on your roster once in a time, is Crowbar.

Starting point is 01:40:37 One of the nicest, maybe most well-adjusted wrestlers I've ever met. Like, that dude figured out life after wrestling and is doing very, very well for himself. And still wrestles for the love of the game. In fact, I think he has been on some GCW shows and AEW shows.

Starting point is 01:40:53 I mean, he's doing a little bit of everything. Yeah, I see, I see him on the convention circuit from time to time. And always seems to be happy. You know, he's just,

Starting point is 01:41:06 he's not carrying it around a lot of baggage. And as you pointed out, I think he's still involved simply because he loves being involved. And he loves performing. I always am happy to see people, that have adjusted well who had their moment because it got it happened so often where people get that moment in the sun and they're on television for a year or two or five years and for whatever happened injuries politics whatever you know you don't get that you don't get to live that dream

Starting point is 01:41:35 the way you wanted to and a lot of guys and i think it's probably true in sport in general sports and other forms of entertainment you walk around kind of half-ass bitter this your life and Devon Storm is not that guy. He's a great shape mentally and physically, and I love seeing him out there. We should also mention

Starting point is 01:42:02 that Steve Karina, a former ECW champ now a big part of what they're doing down at NXT. I wish you would have seen more of his ECW stuff. I think he would have been a fan. He could talk. He could work. You might not have liked that occasionally he liked to bleed a little bit.

Starting point is 01:42:22 Yeah, never my thing. We got a few more questions here from the group chat. Richie Ray wants to know. Eric, what about the flying Elvis's? Did you have seen them as WCW material? I kind of think so. There's something kind of potentially cool about that gimmick. I mean, I think they could have done a much better job with.

Starting point is 01:42:47 their wardrobe and kind of playing into the Elvis thing a little bit more than just wearing a white jumpsuit. But the general, the premise of the idea, I think it could be fun. And you could do a lot with it, right? If it's a comedic presentation, there's a lot of things you could do with it to play off of the Elvis persona. Josh Fields wants to know, if you were to have a clean slate with all the guys you see in the battle royal, who would you put in your first top program? for the big belt for the main title now remember at this point you haven't yet seen uh ken shamrock and brian christopher run in there still to come well let's take scott hall out of the

Starting point is 01:43:30 equation for obvious reasons but um who's the guy from porto rico apollo yeah i i see something there wall was not moving well enough to really catch my eye but yeah i would i would say apollo it would be somebody that I'd probably want to reach out to or have someone else reach out to. Eddie Prather had a great question. He wants to know, what kind of gimmick would you have given Chris Parks instead of the abyss gimmick?

Starting point is 01:44:04 I liked the way he looked as we saw him right here. I mean, he was a big guy that could move. He had a good look. I wouldn't have covered him up. And certainly wouldn't have covered him up with a cactus jack kind of a look mankind kind of a look i like the i like i like the way he looked right there you saw him listen everybody liked everybody liked wearing black trunks and black tights back then yeah we we needed jimmy hard around didn't we yeah baby baby baby maybe maybe if you're going to

Starting point is 01:44:42 dress like the audience you're going to be in the audience it's his favorite saying It works, you know? It works. By the way, not making fun of him. He's right. Yeah. He's absolutely right. And I think it was Dick Clark once told Jimmy Hart.

Starting point is 01:45:01 People that come on his show, dress like the audience, end up being audience. Good advice. It is. That's old school, but it works. Remember Dick Clark, American bandstand? Of course, yeah. And Dick Clark's New Year's Rock and Eve? Well, that's right. I forgot about that.

Starting point is 01:45:18 That's kind of a big deal. So there you go. Brian Christopher, I think that'll round it out. And don't forget, Ken Shamrock is still in the ring over there. And Brian Christopher is here. Steve Carrino's in there. That's Chris Harris right in the middle. We've got David Heath, who we know is the vampire warrior or gangrail.

Starting point is 01:45:41 Apollo in the bottom left. And up top, that's Crowbar with Malice, who we knew is the wall. I want to plug Chris Harris, man. We just had a great conversation with him. Eric, I don't know that you kept up with this, but Bruce and I talked about things that were happening once upon a time in WWV, and that included the debut of Chris Harris as the character, Braden Walker.

Starting point is 01:46:03 It was kind of a footnote in WW history, and unfortunately, the Braden Walker performance or persona only lasted a couple of matches on TV. And he sort of became that Braden Walker character, an internet meme for years and years and years that I thought was unfairly dumped on because he had done such great stuff in T&A and I wanted to have Chris Harris rebut what Bruce said because Bruce was very, very critical of Chris and I was trying to defend Chris and was just like, hey, he's a nice guy and because my God, Bruce just went after him with two shovels and just buried.

Starting point is 01:46:43 Why? I don't know. It was almost like he had a vendetta, and I thought it was mean-spirited, and I felt bad. And I knew Chris would hear it, and he did. And Chris DM me and said, Ouch. And I said, hey, man, love to have you on just, you know, tell your side of the story. I'm not interested in got you stuff. I mean, if you want to dunk on Bruce, you can.

Starting point is 01:47:04 You'll have the floor to say whatever you want. But I would rather have a real conversation about how things went down from your perspective. And he said, can I think about it? And I said, yeah. And so then he says, hey, I think I'd like to do it. What would that look like? And I said, man, I'm not interested in creating online clickbait or drama. Just, you know, don't want the final word on your career to be something that was negative from a pretty powerful and influential voice like Bruce.

Starting point is 01:47:29 So we sat down to talk, Eric, and I thought, you know, this is probably 20 minutes and I'm going to try to stretch it to an hour and just make it interesting and approach it from every angle. What we wound up doing, though, Eric, was we talked about his whole career and it went nearly three hours. and we got really personal and we talked about stuff he had never talked about before and I thought we did great service to a great performer but the way it made me feel

Starting point is 01:47:53 was like this is special so we off of a what was supposed to be a 20 minute conversation created a whole new series called the false finish and it's available now I think you'll love it I was on cloud nine when I finished it

Starting point is 01:48:07 and I told some of our guys on ad-free shows this might be the best piece of business I've ever produced in the wrestling space So I encourage you to go check it out. Even if you don't think you're into Chris Harris or you weren't really a T&A fan back then or you don't care about the Braden Walker story, it is a true success story, an uplifting story, a motivational story, and there's no wrestling polish on it. There's no bullshit because Chris is not necessarily, you know, trying to get back to

Starting point is 01:48:34 WWE for one last run or whatever. So we could just have a conversation that you don't really hear a lot in wrestling. And that's available now over at adfreeshows.com. I'm going to check that out. I saw a little bit of it the other day. It might have been a promotion that I saw that we did for ad-free shows, but I will, I'll check that out. You would get it, Eric.

Starting point is 01:48:55 You would be emotional. I mean, it is a real conversation with real honesty and real truth. And there's more wrinkles in his story than you may imagine. And, of course, now the Battle Royal is over. It is a regular match. Rick Steenboat has slid in here. It's Malice and Ken Shamrock. The winner is going to become the new.

Starting point is 01:49:13 NWA heavyweight champion. This is how we'll end the very first pay-per-view in TNA history. Eric, what do you think? Is this too southern? Is it not national enough? Is it just need some more polish? Was it a good effort? Thumbs up,

Starting point is 01:49:27 thumbs down, thumbs in the middle. Tell us about this first T&A paper view. All things considered, I'd probably give it a thumbs up. Yep. Not that it needed, not that it didn't need some fine tuning and some work.

Starting point is 01:49:43 There's certainly things about it that I found just tasteful or just, eh. But overall, I kind of liked it. It had great energy. I love the pace, moved. It didn't necessarily get anybody over. I don't think this did the wall any favors. And I'm nothing against him personally. But I saw what you try to do with him in WCW.

Starting point is 01:50:08 And again, he was a Vince Rousseau kind of a project. It just, it wasn't working and I didn't see any way that it would. I'm not seeing anything here that makes me think I might have been wrong about that. But all that aside, especially I think the use of Toby Keith, the way he was used, I think it was really smart of Jarrett to take all the heat right on the front end, get the audience thinking for sure, it's going to be Jeff, it's going to be Jeff. But doing it by getting heat, not trying to get himself over, and then taking it away from him and having him get him,

Starting point is 01:50:40 get tossed out. I thought that was a really smart creative decision. So overall, I'd give it a thumbs up. I would too, man. I left here excited for what was next and what was to come. I mean, I thought it was cool that we had a big star like Ricky Steamboat here to help crown the new champion.

Starting point is 01:51:00 I guess I can go ahead and give you the spoiler. It's Ken Shamrock. I thought Shamrock could have been the guy in the WWF in 1998 to really give Steve Austin a run for his money. he was believable he had you know whatever the it that goldberg had ken shamrock had it too he could have done that but jr and and bruce both think it was a reliability issue certainly jr has said that uh so i was glad to see him get his moment in the sun even if it wasn't necessarily long term all right eric let's take a time out right now and talk about our friends

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Starting point is 01:52:32 That's bluechew.com. The promo code is 83 weeks, and you receive your first month free. visit bluechu.com for more details and important safety information. And we thank Blu Chu for sponsoring today's podcast. So that's pretty much the gist of our conversation about the first ever T&A show. But as we're recording this, Eric, last night was the first ever AEW collision. And as you recall, well, you lost maybe the most historic bet in wrestling podcast history. And as a result.

Starting point is 01:53:04 That's certainly saying something, isn't it? Eric is getting a haircut, and I was supposed to be the man with those clippers, but instead we are allowing you the chance to cut Eric's hair. Go right now to cuterick's hair.com. Make a donation to St. Jude's Children's Research Hospital by visiting cut ericshair.com. Be sure to share that screenshot on social

Starting point is 01:53:28 and use the hashtag cut Eric's hair. The highest donor gets to come to Huntsville and cut Eric's hair at Top Guy Weekend. I can't believe this is a real thing. Don't forget, make a donation today. Cuterick's hair.com. Use the hashtag cut Eric's hair and post your screenshot.

Starting point is 01:53:46 Let's talk about the show though, Eric. You saw collision last night. What did you think? I didn't see collision last night. What? No, I didn't. I will see it. I will watch it.

Starting point is 01:53:57 But we had friends over last night and the evening went longer than anticipated. and I did not get a chance to see it. All right. I know I'm, I know I'm disappointing you, Conrad, and I apologize for that. It is what it is.

Starting point is 01:54:14 Tell me what you thought, though. What was your take? Thought it was a great show. They had Nigel McGinnis and Kevin Kelly. And then they were joined by Jim Ross for the main event. I think J.R. had some, I know J.R. was not feeling so good in the middle of the week. He told me he had the crud, I believe is the phrase he used.

Starting point is 01:54:33 And I know he suffered a fall the night before. So I don't think they ever showed him on camera, but you could tell his voice was a little tough to get going. But once it got going, it just felt like old times again. We started the show, though, with a strong promo from C and Punk. A really nice six-man main event,

Starting point is 01:54:50 Juce Robinson in there with Samoa Joe and Jay White against C and Punk and FTR. I just think of the world of all those guys. The crowd was super hot for Punk and Joe. But it all started. The whole show got kicked off with long, ring promo from seeing punk name dropping the head of time warner saying that he's now known as one bill fill and pretty good stuff he said uh you know he's the money in pro wrestling and there's a lot of counterfeit bucks running around and uh then he made sure to point out that

Starting point is 01:55:23 he never lost the a w world title he had it in his red bag there if you're watching over on YouTube and said if you were expecting an apology from him tonight here it is I'm sorry if the only thing softer than you are your favorite wrestlers and a lot of inside baseball there but overall aside from the lineup of the show in your opinion did the show feel different than dynamite it looks good it looks like a new stage it looks like it was new lighting it looks like there was a lot of different camera angles lots of upgrades in production I could see. It looks like they reinvested pretty significantly there. And I thought Andrade L. Edelow and Buddy Matthews stole the show.

Starting point is 01:56:06 I think the announcer may have accidentally called him Buddy Murphy, but whatever. The actual in-ring stuff was fantastic. So I like the show. It flew by. It didn't feel like it drug at all to me. I was a big fan of what we saw. And I'm looking forward to the next one. I was hoping to get your take, though, especially since you're going to be getting a haircut as a result.

Starting point is 01:56:25 But maybe we'll do that another time. you're going to be on this show looking like Lex Luthor next week, and you get to be the guy to cut his hair. Go to cut ericshair.com and remember to use that hashtag cut Eric's hair. And I've got to tell you, I'm disappointed. You didn't watch. I was expecting you to have a whole rant, but maybe another time. Well, I might have put it over, too.

Starting point is 01:56:45 You know, I'm not, you know, by default wanting to rip AEW. I typically don't think much about it until somebody asked me a question and I'll give it an honest assessment. based on what I've seen and what I know, but I'm certainly not going to be critical of something I didn't see. One of the things that I will say, and I was actually going to reach out to you yesterday, but just got jammed.

Starting point is 01:57:09 I wish they would have kept the Elton John theme, a secret until the show. I think that would have been a really cool surprise. I think that would have been something that had it not been promoted, it would get a bigger return on it. It would have been that added value that I was talking about earlier. And it would have been something that people would have talked about much more after the show was over, like we used to call watercule buzz,

Starting point is 01:57:38 then they would have received prior to the show. That would have been my only note. It wasn't a criticism. It was a note. Perhaps we would have got more value out of that. But I would expect that the punk interview would have been strong because he is good on the mic. There's no question about that. Oh, that crowd was so hot for him.

Starting point is 01:57:57 Eric, you'll love that when you watch it back. Yeah, and look, there was a lot of things that were perfect, right? I mean, in Chicago, probably pretty close to a sellout, if not a sellout. Certainly enough hype now around CM Punk. What did you think of the interview that CM Punk did that everybody was so worried about and so much conjecture about, you know, throwing them right back into the chaos? What was your take on that interview? I'll give you.

Starting point is 01:58:23 I heard the Doomsday Whisper on Monday that this was back. bad and it was going to be bad and it was going to piss everybody off and then I heard it got worse on Tuesday and I guess it was at a fever pitch on Wednesday as the whispers sort of spread through the backstage area I wasn't there but that's certainly the narrative that's out there and then I read it and I don't see why this is that big of a deal it didn't I don't know if it was censored or edited and I'm not making any accusations I'm just saying I felt much ado about nothing to me like I don't know what did you think I You know, when I heard, you know, I heard all the same things you heard, obviously, going into it. And I think I even mentioned on Twitter that, no, look, if there's a non-disparagement agreement in place, given all the other things that were going on from a litigious point of view. But if there's a non-disparagement clause in Punks agreement, if, and I don't know that there is, but that's what I've heard, then I thought, you know, this is just a work. They're building up all of this angst and drama about this so-called interview just to get people to listen to the interview.

Starting point is 01:59:33 Spent three or four days getting the word out that, oh, my God, this is going to be another, you know, catastrophe and all the wheels are going to fall off, even whatever. And they came out and I thought, I actually think punk handled it well, you know, he apologized or he said that he apologized to Tony Khan. And that, look, I think punk would have been better served had he apologized sooner like months ago and kind of cleared that air and just taking responsibility for something that I still consider to be abhorrent. But if he apologized to Tony, and I believe he did, he's not to, I think the interview actually cleared the air. You know, punk did go into a little bit more of an explanation about his issues with Page and the chop to the face and all that. And, eh, that was a little unnecessary, I think, given everything else that was going on in that interview. But overall, I thought it was a good interview. And I think it served punk well.

Starting point is 02:00:41 And I actually think it served AEW well. So I was happy to see it. And I, you know, I want to be clear. I've been very critical to see them punk. I hope this works. I hope this is a new, a fresh start and all of the drama and nonsensical stuff behind the scenes is behind this, behind them all. It's in a rear room mirror and everybody can move forward in a positive way.

Starting point is 02:01:11 And I really truly hope it works out. I hope collision is successful. I don't know what this success looks like. You know, John Alba asked me in Strictly Business the other day what my prediction was. And not knowing anything about the Saturday night time slot, what the trends are, what the audience composition looks like. There's no way for me to make it a guess. But my thought was if collision can come in around 600,000 viewers and be able to sustain at least 75% of that going forward. Because as you know, you look at SmackDown when SmackDown premiered on Fox, 3.8, 3.9 million viewers.

Starting point is 02:01:53 Within a couple of weeks, they're down to 2.5, 2.8. So approximately, you know, whatever, 30% of the audience or so came, they saw, and they didn't come back. Same thing with Dynamite when it premiered, 1.4 million viewers. And then they settled in around that 900 to a million category. So just looking at trends and patterns, recent ones, not from 25 years ago, I'm thinking if, if collision comes in around 600, you're going to assume they're going to lose maybe 100 to 150,000 of that. That's being kind of generous. Then they're going to probably average out around 400, 450,000 viewers. Now, I don't know if that's a win for Turner, but we don't know.

Starting point is 02:02:39 you know, Turner may be looking at this as a real long-term play. They may be looking at streaming opportunities down the road. They may be looking at a number of other things. And if they're taking the long-term view of AEW and collision, then the week-to-week pressure that we all put on, and myself included, from an analysis perspective, isn't really an issue if indeed the view. is long term.

Starting point is 02:03:11 If it's not long term, then weekly ratings and weekly performance and audience patterns, viewing patterns, matter more. And since we don't know what Warner Discovery's view is,

Starting point is 02:03:26 whether it be short-term, mid-term or long-term, let's hope that it's long-term and collision can build from where they are now. Let's see what happens over the next three or four weeks. but I want to make it really clear.

Starting point is 02:03:40 I am pulling for them. It doesn't mean I'm not going to point out things from time to time. When I'm asked, I don't go out of my way to do this. I'm responding to questions and I'm being honest about it. And I have no dog in a hunt. I don't want a job. I don't need a job. I wouldn't want to go there.

Starting point is 02:03:57 But it doesn't mean that I don't want them to be successful. So we'll see. And I'm hoping that it is successful. And I'm kind of anxious to see what the numbers look like on Tuesday. I think Monday is a holiday. So it might be Tuesday, late Tuesday. of you. Well, I'm sure you guys will be talking about it on Strictly Business, so stay tuned for that, and we'll be back next week talking to Eric about all things professional

Starting point is 02:04:19 wrestling. And I'm sure we'll have some more takes from Eric about collision and CM Punk and so much more right here on 83 weeks with Eric Pischoff. Iconic wrestler Kevin Von Erick just announced his first public tour. The show titled Stories from the Top Robe will feature Von Erich. We'll feature Von Erich. sharing insight into his career, personal triumphs, and tragedies. Stories from the top rope will go on sale June 2nd at Emporiumpresents.com and will offer a very limited number of VIP tickets, which include a meet-and-greet and photo op.

Starting point is 02:04:56 Von Erick, now 65, will be the subject of a major motion picture Iron Claw, which stars Zach Efron in a slated for release later this year. See Kevin Von Erick live September 1st in Dallas, September 2nd in San Antonio September 3rd in Corpus Christi September 5th in Houston September 6th in Shreveport September 8th in Oklahoma City

Starting point is 02:05:19 September 9th in Amarillo and September 10th in Midland tickets on sale at Emporiumpresents.com Hey guys, need to call a quick time out here wanted to tell your listeners what I've been telling my listeners over at OU didn't know for a while now

Starting point is 02:05:37 about all the cool things happening over at ads-freeshows.com. On the debut episode of The False Finish, Chris Harris talks about his successful TNA run as one half of America's Most Wanted and is not so successful run in WWE as Braden Walker. To be honest with you, I wanted out. I mean, it wasn't, I was saying the right things to Johnny, like, hey, I'm going to make this work, but inside I was thinking, I hate this fucking place. It's broken me down.

Starting point is 02:06:04 It's made me not love wrestling anymore. I mean, that's kind of what my drinking took a bad turn. And, yeah, I just, I really needed out. Buff Bagwell joined ad-free shows members for a live Q&A, talking about his road to recovery and sobriety and recovery from a broken neck. We took an angle between me and Rick Steiner that could have been a unbelievably long angle. And they took that and just made it into a one-night match down Nitro, which I love. lost my debut matchback for the broken neck.

Starting point is 02:06:41 Who booked that shit? I feel like that was a bad call. Who booked that shit? That's just a small taste of what we got waiting for you. With four levels to choose from, see for yourself why ads-free shows is the best value in wrestling today. Sign up now at ads-freeshows.com.

83 Weeks with Eric Bischoff - Episode 275: TNA 1st Weekly PPV 06.91.02 Watch Along

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