83 Weeks with Eric Bischoff - Episode 289: Eric Becomes EVP Of WCW

Episode Date: September 25, 2023

On this episode of 83 Weeks, Eric and Conrad discuss Eric's transformation from on camera interviewer to Executive Vice President of World Championship Wrestling. How did it all unfold, who was encouraging Eric to take that step, and who now is taking credit for getting him the job? Eric shoots straight and clears up all the rumor and innuendo behind him becoming the top dog of World Championship Wrestling. HELLO FRESH - Go to HelloFresh.com/5083WEEKS and use code 5083WEEKS for 50% off plus 15% off the next 2 months! NATIONAWIDE COINS - If you’ve been thinking about exploring gold, head to AtCostGold.com/83WEEKS and use promo code 83WEEKS at checkout for your first one ounce gold coin without any dealer markup! BLUECHEW - Try BlueChew FREE when you use our promo code 83WEEKS at checkout--just pay $5 shipping. That’s BlueChew.com, promo code 83WEEKS to receive your first month FREE ROCKET MONEY - Cancel your unwanted subscriptions – and manage your money the easy way – by going to RocketMoney.com/83WEEKS AG1 - Try AG1 and get a FREE 1-year supply of Vitamin D AND 5 free AG1 Travel Packs with your first purchase. Go to drinkAG1.com/83WEEKS. That’s drinkAG1.com/83WEEKS. SAVE WITH CONRAD - Stop throwing your money on rent! Get into a house with NO MONEY DOWN and roughly the same monthly payment at SaveWithConrad.com ADVERTISE WITH ERIC - If your business targets 25-54 year old men, there's no better place to advertise than right here with us on 83 Weeks. You've heard us do ads for some of the same companies for years...why? Because it works! And with our super targeted audience, there's very little waste. Go to AdvertiseWithEric.com now and find out more about advertising with 83 Weeks. Get all of your 83 Weeks merchandise at https://boxofgimmicks.com/collections/83-weeks FOLLOW ALL OF OUR SOCIAL MEDIA at https://83weekslinks.com/ On AdFreeShows.com, you get early, ad-free access to more than a dozen of your favorite wrestling podcasts, starting at just $9! And now, you can enjoy the first week...completely FREE! Sign up for a free trial - and get a taste of what Ad Free Shows is all about. Start your free trial today at AdFreeShows.com. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Eric Bischoff here again, telling you about our friends over at savewithconrad.com. Now, Conrad's always talking about how they are helping homeowners save money, but did you know that Conrad and his team can also help you become a homeowner? They make the home buying process more enjoyable than, I don't know, making out with Stephanie and Linda. Osh, but don't take my word for it. I'm Willie Proctor, and I'm from Mortonsburg, West Virginia. I came with State with Conrad to buy my first home. Once I, you know, listening to the podcast, I heard other testimonials and how easy it was.

And that was the whole process for me here was wanting for convenience. Oh, it was a pleasure. I mean, it was like working with family. It really was like, you know, being from West Virginia, you know, it's all about family here. And that's what it was like working with Conrad's team. You know, I worked with Larry, Holly, and Francis. And they were just, it was just like I thought I was talking to my aunt or, you know, talking to my dad you know it was it was a great experience yeah this is actually the house i grew up in

so that was kind of the whole thing that my mom was moving to south carolina and she was and she got stressed out about what to do with the house how she was going to sell it uh get rid of everything and i thought you know what i didn't want to see the house go by the same time i wanted to make the process easy for me and easy for my mom and working with larry and the team uh they made it easier for both of us. Hi, this is Willie Proctor, and I just bought my first house with Save WithConrad.com. And unlike the dirt sheets, we're not making this up. Check out all the five-star reviews.

Go to SavewithConrad.com and do it today. Be grateful you did. NMLS number 65084 Equal Healthy Lender. Woo! Hey, hey, it's Conrad Thompson. and you're listening to 83 weeks with Eric Bischoff. Eric, what's going on, man? How are you?

I'm great. And as this podcast drops on Monday morning at 6 a.m., wherever you get your favorite podcast, yours truly and my beautiful bride, Mrs. B., we're just bouncing around the UK and Ireland, Scotland, and just we're going to go to Cardiff Wales and hang out and check out a castle or two. And so even though I'm not there as we record this, I am there as people are listening to this. So I'll send lots of pictures, folks. You check me out on X. On X. Wow. Twix. Twix. We're going to scott. It's I came up with that the other day. It's like,

what do we, you don't want to keep calling it Twitter because it's not Twitter anymore. But, you know, when you say X, it's like, that's, that's kind of weird. So I'm going to call it twicks. I'm okay with calling it. I'm going to call it. I'm going to call it. Twitter forever. And I probably was one of those guys who said I would say WWF forever. But eventually they wore me down and I say WWE. So I know eventually I'll say X, but for the foreseeable future for me, it's Twitter. When you say Twix, I start to get hungry. So I don't know that I'm going to say that. Hey, we're excited to be here today. We have had a real blast with, uh, I don't know, the viral sensation you

became last week, Eric. We didn't ask Eric episode. It was super fun. And I thought, I would have a little fun and razz you at the end, and you're a good sport. So I said, hey, Conrad from Huntsville wants to know. Can you do the Prince and I-N-I swerve dance? And by God, you nailed it. I think across all the platforms, there was well over a million impressions. I think just my post on Twitter did like 700K. It's crazy, man.

People love seeing you do the Prince and I-N-I-swerve dance. If you haven't checked it out already, go check it out on last week's episode on YouTube. What feedback did you see, Eric? I had a blast with it. I did too. I, you know, I thought people get a little bit of a kick out of it because it is kind of weird to see an old dude doing something kind of funky like that, you know, it's not something you come across every day. And it was lighthearted and fun. Holy smokes.

I got so much positive feedback, you know, it was, and it was fun. That's the thing, you know, that's, to me, that's how Twix, Twitter, to me, that's how Twix is supposed to, it should be. fun. You know, share good information, solid information, you know, real news, things like that. I get all that because I use social media for that as well. But mostly I use it to entertain myself and to laugh and to have fun. And this certainly worked. I can't wait to meet Prince Nana someday.

We'll do it together, maybe at a hallway at a restaurant or something. And yeah, it was fun. I love that kind of. I love that feedback. And Dave Silver with a cool little graphic in the bottom of a meat. bouncing around that was just fun shit man super fun and uh hey it goes to show you that Eric doesn't hate all things AEW I don't know how that anything AEW it's weird that that's out there I mean I saw somebody even post on can't believe I'm going to say this

Twix the other day man I used to really enjoy now yeah man it's uh what was that what was that thing you used to say back in the day you saw some Hispanic lady on a documentary who mispronounced something and you just drove it into the ground here on the show oh no she was a comedian it was uh shady chananagan's oh gosh thought you were doing a dave sylva impression once when he said that because he goes he goes oh jess and things like this and i'm not chady chananagan anyway uh i'm not i'm not i'm not on the shady chanananagan's and i'm hoping not to get on twigs but i saw where somebody said man i used to really enjoy your podcast you talked about the good old days of professional wrestling and now you

you're just Jim Cornett for clicks. And it's like, wait, what? We make comparisons and we talk about AEW and how it relates to WCW and your opinion. But my goodness, I don't, I don't see that. Um, well, you know, it's a little bit of people and just in general, not just in wrestling, I think certainly in social media, but across the board, people have become so entrenched in their tribal mentality and they're, you're either on my team and you're either with me or you're against me. You know, it's so childish and boring. First of all, when I'm asked a question, let's back it up even further, folks. I have a podcast with Conrad Thompson.

We've had this podcast for going on five and a half, six years now. It is one of the highest rated regularly, usually in the top five of the hundreds of podcasts out there in wrestling. We're usually in the top five. So it is somewhat relevant in the world of at least podcasting and the fact that I've been, I spent 30 years in the professional wrestling industry and accomplished some things, quite frankly, that no one else have and achieved a tremendous amount of success and some horribly, you know, public failures along the way. It gives me a unique perspective, which is generally why people ask me questions.

had I have never been in the wrestling business, had I never had achieved any success or failures that come along with it. No, I wouldn't be talking about AEW. I really wouldn't. But the fact that I have, and I do, sometimes, oftentimes, when I'm asked questions, I don't sugarcoat it.

I'm not trying to get a job anywhere. I'm not protecting friends or family, which I do occasionally. You know, there are certain questions and I'll go out of my way for whatever reason to be very careful about how I answer them. But with regard to the business of the wrestling business and my experience, good and bad, in that industry, I will answer a question if I'm asked. And a lot of the questions I'm asked have to do with what's wrong with AEW.

And I answer them, not trying to bury anybody. Well, and sometimes I admit the way I answer things, it is a little, it's kind of a bit of an edge to it, but that's the entertainment part of what we do. But look, you ask me a question, I'm going to give you an answer. And a lot of the things that I've talked about, let's look at the last two years. I've talked, you know, I've talked so much about it, Conrad, I know that you're sick of hearing it. You know, when I talk about story and structure and discipline, and I talked two years ago about the fact that if Tony doesn't embrace, A.W doesn't embrace a more sophisticated. a storytelling approach that their numbers are going to flatline. They're not going to grow. They're not going to grow their audience. Well, what happened? Two and a half years later,

dynamites doing the same numbers are slightly less than they didn't when I made that statement. It was true. You know, so much of the critique or criticism that I, that I discuss on this show with regard to the questions that I'm asked, they've all come true, haven't they? Most of them. so I don't know I don't it's not that I hate it certainly I don't I don't hate anybody you know that's a lot of weight to carry around makes you negative makes you miserable it's it's toxic and I don't like I don't like feeling that way I don't hate anybody I don't even dislike I dislike very few people I think Tony's a great guy there's just a massive amount of talent in in AEW people that I know pretty well many now that I don't

But I'm very supportive of the talent, but there are things that I think are definitely wrong and obvious. And I point those things out, but some people feel like, oh, he hates everything. No, I fucking don't. It's probably the opposite deep down inside. I want to see the business that I spent 30 plus years of my life in, gave a lot to, got a lot out, too, fair exchange. but I want to be able to 20 years from now sit with my grandson, YJ, and say, yeah, I used to do that. Here's what I did in that world.

I want the world to be healthy and the wrestling business to be healthy and strong. I don't want it to fail. I don't want anybody to fail in it. But I'll also point out things that I think could be done better. I want to make a two millimeter adjustment to what you just said because I agree with what you just said. But where you said, and I think this is, I think you mean it the way I'm about to say it. But what you say comes across as negative, and you don't really mean it that way.

You say, I'm asked about what's wrong with AEW, and I give my opinion. Said differently, you could have said, and I think this is what you mean, how can we make AEW better? What would make AEW better? What would help AEW grow? There's two approaches in terms of, you know, hey, here's a. what you learned and here's what to do and here's what not to do. I just feel like the concept is you want AEW to succeed. You don't want to spike the football and say, yeah, AEW sucks and I told you they were numb skulls and that's not the attitude. The approach is, hey, here's the

lessons I've learned. Here's the things I see could be improved. If we did this, AEW would level up. Like you're rooting for AEW to be successful. not rooting for AEW to no longer be a thing. And I know that some podcasters do, but that's not really your intent to spike the ball and say, here's what you're doing wrong and let me tell you why. It's more of, hey man,

how can we pull the nose upon this thing? How can they get some more traction? What are some different choices they could make to grow rather than celebrating a failure? You know, you said that, you preface that by saying it's a two millimeter change. It's actually more significant. And you're right.

you know and that's a part of my game here on this podcast and then strictly business that i've got i've got to pay more attention to that because my style of articulating things my my approach it does come off with more of an edge or more aggressive that's the best way to say it comes off as much more aggressive which in turn comes off as is negative so yeah i guess it's how i answer in the in the way I articulate some of those thoughts, it's actually kind of a big difference. I'll work on that. I can get better.

I can't. No, I know that. He can teach his old freaking dog new tricks all day long because the old dog likes to learn. I always want to get better at what I do. Well, I just sometimes don't realize it.

I just know your heart and I know, you know, when we have conversations offline about AEW and how you're pulling for them and you really like this guy and you really like. that guy and man if they could just get to this point that's like the next plateau and I just know that's the that's the place it's coming from not a outlaw mud show indie bullshit blah blah blah negative narrative that's not it it's a function of how do we grow this thing and by the way I want to remind you Eric never ran owned or operated

outlaw mud show bullshit that wasn't his deal what he did is he took a company that was deep in the red and got it way in the black. Now, yes, if you play that tape all the way through, it wound up being sold. But the point is, he did something that no one could do. He pulled WCW out of the dumps. I mean, out of the red ink. This thing was never profitable, not one time. And under Eric's supervision, not only was it profitable, it became the most profitable

company. And they kicked Vince McMahon's ass, whereas most people never did it one time. Eric didn't do it one time. He did it 83 fucking weeks in a row. So if you ever wonder, why is that show named 83 weeks to remind you about that one cool thing he did that one time 25 years ago to remind you he's the only guy to ever do it and he didn't do it one time. Nobody else did it once.

He didn't do it once. He did it 83 times in a row. Stay in your lane, motherfucker. So anyway. Now yeah. Now we're talking. I like that. just know where it comes from it comes from hey man i was a part of a company that needed to grow

and we did it and here's how we did it and instead of people piling on and saying oh can we just acknowledge that it worked before can we he did something nobody else has done ever before let's just take that for what it is and now we'll talk about our topic today which is going to be when you became an evp at wcw so that just dovetails nicely in with the story but before we do, I want to ask you about this big meeting. I don't know if you heard about this, Eric, but there was a big meeting, apparently, where the people who survived the cuts and the layoffs,

we've been told there were more than 100. There were some major names like Frank Riddick, who was the president and CFO and the head of marketing and a lot of other heads were rolling last week, but those who survived apparently got together at the new headquarters that they're building there in Stanford and finishing out. and I think there's some folks already over in that space temporarily. Ari Emanuel was there,

and Vince McMahon acknowledged that he has a new boss. It's Ariel Manuel. And he also acknowledged, and this is the thing that's got people talking, he felt like the WWE had reached a plateau. I've heard the word plateau used. I've heard the word stagnant used. And he felt like Endeavor could help get WWE,

to the quote-unquote next level. Now, what rub some people the wrong way, allegedly is that, my goodness, we just keep setting records. All-time revenue, all-time profit. I mean, everywhere they go, they're setting a record before this merger happened. Most profitable WrestleMania, most sponsorship dollars,

new record at every live event based on attendance and gate. Like, the company was worth more than ever. how was it at a plateau, how was it stagnant? So a lot of people took offense to that. But I think if you look backwards and you see where the UFC was when they sold, they too were at an all-time high. And now they're much, much bigger with Endeavor than they were before. So are people getting their feelings hurt unnecessarily?

Do they not feel like they're getting their just due or their credit? Or is there more to it than that? Should they be a little annoyed? because the narrative is, did Vince say that because he wasn't in charge? Did Vince say that we weren't at a plateau, we were stagnant because it wasn't him running the show, it was somebody else? Was he trying to discount what Triple H was saying? That's the narrative online.

I want to know what you think. Again, that's a third grade, just childish mentality to react in that butt hurt. Is he just trying to dump on Triple H and the rest of the team that got achieved so many things. Over the last two years, really, we've been seeing this role almost ever since we came out of the pandemic era. I don't think so, you know, please, I'm not trying to get inside of Vince McMahon's head. I'm not capable of that. Very few people are. But I think, and I think most people at the level that Vince McMahon and Ari Emanuel and Dana White, their They're playing a different game of life than the average person who watches, plays.

You know what I mean? They live in the future. They don't live in the present. The present, sure, records, a lot of reason to high five and celebrate, crack the champagne, record sales, record rate, records everywhere you look, there's shit falling. There's like a bull in a China shop and the bull is knocking down all the records and breaking them. that's true but that's the present but when you live in the future when you have when you have to live in the future by the way this isn't like going you know to your job at for motor plant and and working on the assembly line or on a CNC machine every single day you have to live in the

future you have to almost be able to predict the future and know where things are going a year or two years from now in order to be viable when that happens and I think think living in the future, perhaps Vince is looking at media rights. He's looking at the evolution of streaming and the evolution of technology when it comes to television and entertainment because it is changing so rapidly that if all you're doing is focusing on the moment, what you're doing today and what you did yesterday, by the time, you know, two years gets here, you're going to be so far behind it's not funny so if you live in the future and you're always thinking one two three and a lot of business people are thinking five years in advance if you

go to go to japan and sit down with executives from from japanese companies they're they're talking about they're trying to think a hundred years in advance they're trying to predict where things are going not where things are and i think in vince's case knowing that w we had achieved so much and broken so many records, the question becomes, where are we going? How do we get bigger? How do we become more secure than we currently are? And that's the future that people like Vince McMahon and others that play at that level, particularly with a publicly held company. You have to play a couple years into the future. And perhaps that look into the future is what made Vince McMahon realize that we've got we've got to level up we've got to figure out a way to

become bigger faster and stronger so that when that two-year window gets here a three window year gets here we're ready for it that's what I think he met I don't think it was a dig you know no it's a butt hurt you know and just I don't think he was discounting anything that's not Vince McMahon style. I mean, I've worked with him long enough. That's just not who Vince is. He's not petty. He's not childish. He's aggressive. He's tough. He's hard to work with in many respects. He's demanding as Piazac. It's tough working with Vince McMahon, but he's not petty in that regard. So I think people are just interpreting it the way they would naturally interpret something because of the world they live in and they're not putting themselves in

Vince McMahon's shoes or are Emmanuel's shoes and thinking about how do these companies get bigger, faster, stronger two years from now. That's that's all. I was a long-winded. No, it's not long-winded at all. It's the answer that we're looking for.

I mean, this is an interesting time for WWB. You know, there's, I saw a post from Brandon Thurston where it talked about what the, um, Through June, I think it was. Maybe it was July.

Yeah, probably June. Through June what the total revenue was for UFC and what the total revenue was for WWE. WWE had more top line, but UFC had nearly twice the amount of profit that WWE did. I think there's going to be more efficiencies created, more cost cutting in place.

We're going to have very specific defined goals. We're going to deliver shareholder value I'm in long term on TKO stock if you're if you're not picking up what I'm putting down but I wonder along the way how will WWE evolve and how will it continue to look different and if you're looking to evolve and looking to look a little different can I recommend Hello Fresh Eric and I absolutely love this product you will too we want you to kick off a fresh fall routine with Hello Fresh you see Hello Fresh handles all the meal planning and shopping to deliver everything you need to cook up a tasty meal right at home what

i really like about this is it gets me and the wife out of the rut we're in this routine or we're in this routine where we're sort of eating the same thing every single week for dinner hello fresh though they've changed all that their menu has 40 different recipes and over a hundred add-on items to choose from every single week and you don't have to spend a lot of time here they've got quick and easy recipes and 15 minute meals that's faster than that you could even get takeout. Not only that, it's better for you and it's cheaper. And they've even got something for the entire family. I mean breakfast. How about family dinners? How about kid-approved lunches? They've even got stuff where you can take to work where maybe you're thinking,

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Even a picture deal, it shows you exactly what to do. Because I've got to tell you, some of the stuff that these recipes, I'm like, man, I can't cook that. That's overwhelming. It was like coloring inside the lines when you were a kid, right? It's paint by numbers. Do this, then do that. Not just with the words, but with doggone pictures. It's so easy even.

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We're going to hook you up. Go to hellofresh.com slash 5083 weeks and use the code 5083 weeks. You'll get 50% off plus 15% off the next two months. That's hellofresh.com slash 5083 weeks and use the code 5083 weeks for 50% off plus 15% off for the next two months. You're going to love Hello Fresh America's number one meal kit. so Eric the reason we're here today is we're talking about I can't believe this is real the timing of this all this uh moving and shaking with WWE who's going to be running that department who's going to be running this department well that happened in WCW2 and it happened

about 30 years ago and I want to talk about it today when you first became an executive vice president and I know that an EVP has become a thing in the last four or five years in wrestling. People want to talk about Kenny Omega and Cody and the Young Bucks and all that stuff. But we're actually talking about when there was sort of one of those guys leading the charge for WCW. And you wrote in your book that Bill Shaw held a meeting at the CNN Center where he said that WCW was a television company, not a wrestling company. And I still think when people talk about WCW, even with the benefit of hindsight, that fact just sort of gets glossed over. that the people who ran this company, who ran this organization,

they did not view WCW as a wrestling company like an ECW or an AEW or a WWE or a Jim Crockett Promotions. They viewed this as a television company. When he held that meeting, did you already know that was the approach or when those words fell out of his mouth, it was almost like a light bulb moment for you where it's like, okay, I get it. That's different than what I was doing with Vern. Yes, but before we go any further, I want to clear something up because the, first of all, I had a number of title changes over a relatively short period of time.

What we're talking about on this show is when I became executive producer, I think, because I didn't become executive vice president until probably a year or more after I became executive producer. So it actually went something like executive vice president, excuse me, executive producer, senior VP, executive VP president, some version of thereof. So there are a lot of title changes in promotions in a very short, relatively short period of time. But I think what we're talking about in terms of time frame in that meeting with Bill Shaw, if I'm reading this correct, was when I was made executive director. a producer. And when I went to that meeting, I had already made up my, because I had never met Bill Shaw that when that meeting took place. I maybe had met him, you know, at a holiday party or something, you know, employee party for WCW when he came over and shook hands. But I never said, at that point, had never sat down and had a conversation with Bill. But when I attended that meeting,

I had already made up my mind that I was leaving. I was I was looking for opportunities outside of WCW, partly because of the things that transpired before Bill came in and had that meeting. Keep in mind that we're coming off the Bill Watts era, debacle. And during that period of time when Bill Watts was, whatever he was, whatever his title was, I'm not even sure. I had made up my mind then that I was on my, my way out the door. Just didn't enjoy it anymore. Didn't see the future in it. I wasn't having any

fun. That's a prerequisite of mine. I'll do anything as long as I can have fun doing it and make a couple bucks. But the minute it stops being fun, I don't care how much money I'm making. There's not enough money if I'm not enjoying it. So I made it my mind that I was out the door. Bill had that meeting and my reaction to it was and I think this is the answer to your question whoa this changes everything and my ears perked up I kind of mentally made a note to perhaps put some of my plans on hold for a while to let's see how this thing shakes out in your own words can you tell us the difference between a television company and a wrestling company the way you perceived it then or the way you perceive it now either way i think a lot of it was

cultural some of it was business obviously but it's a matter of priorities and and some of those priorities were cultural when you think about the people who had come before me uh jim heard was the only one that had a little bit of television experience maybe more than a little bit i i don't recall his resume at that time. But, you know, Dusty was a, and people should know this. I loved and still do Dusty Rhodes. And in many ways, Dusty had a tremendous influence on me that was enabled me to grow within WCW.

I learned a lot from Dusty. But Dusty came from an era where the wrestling business model functioned in a very particular way. television was a means to an end. It wasn't the end. That's the best way to say it. Dusty Roads and Bill Watts, for sure, and a lot of the people that worked underneath both of them

had gained all of their experience and knowledge at a time when the wrestling business model used television, much like an infomercial. We don't really care for making any money on the TV. We've got to sell tickets to that live event. that's where 80% of the revenue came from back in the territory days, whether it was Vern Gagne, Jerry Jarrett, Bill Watts, Bob Geigle, Don Owens, Devon Erics, you name it. If you're in that territory business, the vast majority of your revenue for your company was

generated by your ability to sell tickets as a result of distributing your local televised wrestling show. so wrestling was almost a throwaway it was a lost leader you did it because you had to do it because that's what enabled you to sell tickets by the 90s that had started to change dramatically Vince was ahead of the curve much more so than the rest of the promoters that I just mentioned not to be disrespectful to any of them but it is what it is and was what it was Vince McMahon was ahead of the curb Vince McMahon saw television as the business model and live events is something that was ancillary to television,

if not ancillary, at least on equal status, I guess is the best way to say it. That changed it. Of course, Ted Turner, being a television guy, wanted WCW to operate within the parameters of what a television business model looked like. Ratings, because ad sales means revenue. sponsorships, all of the things that come along with what we see today. That's what Ted Turner wanted. And those were when Bill Shaw came in and said, we want this to be a television company,

not a rassling company. Those were Ted Turner's words, not Bill Shaw's words. Bill was a messenger. And nothing but love and respect for Bill Shaw to this day. We still stay in contact. And he gave me the opportunity of a lifetime that no one else. would have. But truth be known, those were Ted Turner's words. And that's why I got excited. And I think the difference, like I say, is where do you put your emphasis? Are you focusing on the

quality of your television show first and hoping to find new ways of selling tickets? Or is all of your focus on the live event gate and the touring model? And you're just doing television because you have to. You know, I wanted to tag in on something else you've said here on the show before because when we talked about your early beginnings in the AWA and you're just, once you're an adult, you had a different appreciation for wrestling and you really understood, as you explained it here, that this was a really wonderful form of marketing.

On some level, television wrestling back in the day was an infomercial to get you to buy tickets. I think that was the phrase you used, an infomercial to get you to buy tickets, because that's how they made money. Now, when Vince McMahon comes along, he sees, hey, you know, there's, as we like to say here in the South, more than one way to skin a cat. There's multiple revenue streams you can create from this. We've just got to think bigger than, quote, unquote, just selling tickets. So you started to see all these different licensing opportunities.

I mean, and people made fun of it at the time, but Vince had the quote unquote dolls, and everybody poked fun at these action figures until they heard the iron sheet got a check for like 80 grand and then everybody paid attention but that was always the plan with vince yes he's going to sell you tickets to the live events but when you get there he's going to sell you a bunch of merch too and then eventually he started to run the merch commercials inside of the program and now we've got lunch boxes and ice cream bars and Hulk Hogan vitamins and and and and and and these are all things that were really found money i mean once upon a time the picture money, as Jeff Jarrett calls it, on my world, was something the guys did at intermission

or before or after the show where they had a box of 8 by 10s or maybe even said differently. They get in the ring and take Polaroids with people and then sign the little thing at the bottom. That was a primitive way of doing it. But once Vince really leaned into that commercially, and then with the advent of pay per view, man, we were off to the races. So I think it's fair to say that what you said is on the money that Vince saw the vision for all these other revenue streams but it feels like even today people want to talk about WCW as if it was quote unquote a wrestling company but it's owned by a television organization and on that television

organization you can I mean on that television program you can sell a whole bunch of stuff we just sold some hello fresh we're going to sell some gold coins and blue chew and rocket money here in a little bit that's what we're doing on 83 weeks this week that's how we're monetizing it Vince had that figured out whereas once upon a time promoting were writing checks to be on TV, now the biggest income stream for wrestling companies is getting a check for providing them TV. It was a total paradigm. Just let that sink in for a little bit because you're right on the money.

When I work for Vern, one of the reasons that Vern went out of business and basically drained his own resources because Vern funded the AWA, the last probably four years of its existence, for sure. Verne was writing checks out of his own personal checking account. He was taking out second and third mortgages on his, we had a beautiful lakefront property in Manitaka. He was draining his lifelong savings and resources, everything that he had made for decades,

just to keep that business afloat. And one of the biggest costs was paying to be on television. Not in every market. There were some markets, because that's what I was hired to do, is to syndicate Vern's show into markets so Vern could sell tickets and promote in those smaller markets. Many of those were barter,

meaning I'll give you the show, Mr. Program Director. All I ask is that, you know, you keep six minutes of advertising, you let me keep six minutes. Or in Vern's case, it was more like nine and three or whatever the break time was. All Vern wanted was a couple minutes of commercial inventory that he could use to promote his live event.

in that market. But there were bigger markets like Chicago, for example, where Vern was writing checks to get his show on the air. And they were big checks. And now you step back and you look at things and, you know, probably the single largest revenue stream and the WWC filings every quarter are television licensing rights. Those did not exist back then. So it's a very significant.

change in the business model. And again, as it relates to WCW, because a lot of the culture emanated from the Crockett's, and when I say culture, I'm talking about the Gary Jester's and the Jim Barnett's and, you know, a lot of the management that came over with to WCW, to Turner from the Crockett promotions, right, including David and others, David Crockett. that culture was more of a wrestling culture. That culture, including the talent, by the way, because they were the most, they talked the loudest about this type of thing.

A lot of that culture, in their own way, resented the fact that now wrestling was owned by a big television company. So they created their own kind of, tribalism, if you will. It's funny. We just started talking, we started the show off talking about that. And that's why I say it was culture, because there was a, there was a resentment in a way, all these TV people don't know anything about our business. They'd never even put on a pair of boots. Who'd he ever beat, you know, in reference to maybe somebody in television and management from Turner Broadcasting, simply asking questions about the way things were done.

Oh, this is never going to work. These people are all teeth. They don't know anything about it. They've never put on a pair of boots. That was the mentality. And that's where I think that that cultural divide started way back when, 91, 92. And existed for a long time. Bill Watts was the most, you know, spoke the loudest about it is resentment for it. You know, it's like, wait a minute, these guys are paying you a lot of money.

and it is a television company and you resent the fact and you tear people down and you make fun of people because they've never put on a pair of boots well motherfucker have you ever edited a show you know i mean it's but that's that's where it all started and it still exists to this day you'll still see references to wrestling companies tv companies but it's silly times change mucker fathers change with it or die that's how this shit works It works. Times change. You either change with it or die. You're either nimble and you can see that train coming and you can get off the tracks and jump on another track or, as Dusty Rose used to say, ride that lightning bowl baby until it hits the ground and jump on another one. You're either nimble and you see this stuff coming and you're smart enough to realize that the world changes around you every single day. Most of which you have no control over. The only thing you control is the way you either adapt. or die. There you go.

Let's talk about that meeting with Bill Shaw. In the meeting, he says he wants an executive producer who understood wrestling and had a vision for the product. And considering what Bill Watts did to the company, you could probably see what he was looking for. Jim Ross wrote this in his book about you. Eric was a quote unquote wrestling guy who came from the AWA, but smartly sold himself as the exact opposite. after having Oli and Watts at the helm, Turner had no appetite for another old-school headstrong type leading the charge. So Eric pitched himself as a brand builder, a businessman with an overall vision for consistency after all the changes to the company. He was young, handsome, and just the type of anecdote that Watts,

anecdote to Watts that the brass wanted. He had served his time in WCW as an announcer who mostly worked on the lower shows, But when the time came to make his case for the head of the department, he positioned himself brilliantly. Eric had streak smarts and amazing ambition. So it always makes me chuckle whenever J.R. talks about you in this era. He always makes sure to throw in, she were young and handsome. That I don't know why, but it always makes me laugh.

But I also like that he gives you some props and says that you had street smarts and amazing ambition. I think anybody who's had the good pleasure of meeting you and knowing you in real life would agree with that, but he thinks you're a quote unquote wrestling guy. I never really got that vibe. I mean, I know you were with the AWA, but you started with the AWA because you wanted to advertise your product on television. So it feels more like you were always a television guy who just sort of accidentally got into wrestling. Jim had a different take. What do you think about what Jim wrote about you here? I think, you know, again, timing is everything, right? Jim wrote that

book at a period of time when I think he still resented me just a bit because for whatever reason he thought that I don't know I fired him or whatever I don't want to revisit that we've talked that to death but that was that book was probably written at a period of time before you know Jim and I now are you know we've we've hung out together we have a blast together and there's a tremendous amount of mutual respect at least on my part and I think on jims as well but the book was written at a period of time when eh maybe not so much right why Jim would say I was a wrestling guy is beyond me because I was an outsider when I came into the AWA

because I had never put on a pair of boots. But I wasn't hired to be involved in wrestling. I was hired to syndicate the show and create sponsorship opportunities. That is not a wrestling guy. That is the opposite of a wrestling guy, right? Vern wasn't going to send Buck Zoom off out to a meeting with the G. Heilman Brewing Company

to try to get sponsorship for the, or Schmidt Beer Brand or anybody else on his roster, including Greg, because they didn't really have the experience in sales and marketing and didn't speak the language, just like people from outside of wrestling can't just jump into the wrestling world because culturally it's different. They don't speak the language and I don't quite understand it. But I was outside of the wrestling guy world while I worked at AWA. I had no previous professional wrestling experience. Zero.

And I was hired for business reasons. And I brought that with me to WCW. I became an announcer just by coincidence in default. That's not why Vern hired me originally. I just happened to be the only guy that had a tie that day when he needed an announcer and threw me into the lion's den. And I survived eventually. but I don't know why Jim I think there was at that time not now but I think there might still been a little bit of resentment because the implication is there is an icon Turner that I went in

there I was really a wrestling guy but somehow I convinced them that I wasn't yes not true at all and and maybe I'm reading too much into it but that's the inference or the implication in what Jim said I got the job because Bill Shaw asked me specifically what would you do differently with WCW that hasn't been done before? Well, Bill, I'm glad you asked that question. Let me show you. And I literally pulled out, I had a big art case because I had a series of poster boards that I had used to sell a kids live action game show to Fox Studios.

Fox back in that period of time. This all happened right around this. In fact, it happened before this meeting with Bill Shaw, where I had made up my mind that I was going to leave, had an idea for a kids' action show. Think of it. It was like American gladiators for kids, but they had professional wrestlers as coaches.

That was essentially the idea. But I'd spent a lot of money in time, creating the artwork. I had some professional art design people do it, and graphics people do it. And I used that artwork to pitch the show to Fox. That was going to be my ticket out of, WCW. And by the way, Fox bought the show, committed to the show. But I knew if I was going in for

this interview with Bill that I had to establish that I was bringing something to the table other than, well, I think we should, you know, have better looking costumes. And I think we should, you know, maybe light the arena better. I needed to have more than that. And I was fortunate. And Bill asked me the question, what would you do differently that hasn't been done before. And I pulled out the pitch that I had used probably six weeks before to sell a show to Fox. A woman by the name of Molly Miles who went on to be a VP at Universal Studios in Florida. I pulled this out and I pitched it to him. That's what got me the job because I was thinking differently and outside of the traditional wrestling box. I was thinking differently

than anybody else that was applying for that job. Because what they were doing is trying to improve on things that already existed. I came in and said, no, no, no. If we want to grow this audience, that's why I talk so much about growing the audience. If we want to grow the audience for WCW, we have to be able to preach outside of the choir. We have to bring people in who aren't currently fans. How do you do that?

We create a show that's targeted for that teen and preteens. audience that doesn't exist in WCW. And that's where I think Bill made up his mind that as long as I didn't shift the bed during the rest of the interviews, because there were two or three of them that took place, as long as I didn't say anything too stupid, I think that was probably the thing that put me over the top, but they had nothing to do with being a wrestling guy. In fact, it was exactly the opposite.

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You'll be glad you did. Let's keep it going here. Let's talk about what's next. I mean, you're in this meeting. You're hearing, you know, you kind of have in your mind, hey, I'm going to go do my own thing. and you hear what the opportunity is. You show him exactly what you would do differently, meaning you showed him this other pitch that you had in mind.

What are the next steps? Is he blown away with what you showed Fox or what is the next piece of business that advances your trajectory up the ladder, if you will? I mean, look, you've been in sales most of your life as well or probably all of your professional life as I had at that time. And you know when somebody's really interested in what you have to say.

The energy completely changed in the room when I got done walking him through the storyboards and the set model and design and everything that we had created. I knew that, I mean, I went into, you know, I told Lori back up just a little bit. Bill invited anybody that was currently in WCW

if they wanted to apply for that job as executive producer, feel free to do so and gave us, you know, the information on how to do that. And my first reaction, although I was interested, was, no, because I was pretty committed. You know, I love the idea of moving out to Los Angeles and giving Hollywood a shot. I just thought, it just felt right to, you know, as an entrepreneur in that was interested in television, there was not a better place to be. There's just not.

And I was pretty committed to go, you know, that Fox had committed to the show that I had pitched. I felt comfortable that I would be able to develop other ideas, especially if Fox were to actually hear the show and use it as a springboard. So I was pretty committed to leaving Atlanta. But after I heard Bill say, hey, if you're interested, you know, I went home and I talked to Lori about it. I said, God, you know, part of me is like, maybe I should throw my name in the hat. And then I'd talk myself out of it. And I'd talk myself back into it. I'd talk myself out of it.

And Lori just kind of rode the train with me. You know, she'd been through it with me before. And I finally settled in. I went, you know what? I've got nothing to lose. It's not going to cost me anything. By simply putting my name in the hat and interviewing for the job doesn't mean I have to take it. So why not?

Why not? nothing to lose everything to gain. And if I don't like the way the opportunity sounds, if I'm offered the job, I'll just thank Bill and move on and do what I was going to do anyway. So once I finally made it my mind, it took me a couple days to do that. I put my name in the hat and had that first meeting, as we just described. Bill immediately set up a second meeting for a week or 10 days later. And that meeting was a little more, it was a different meeting.

It was very, very positive, very laid back, very friendly, but more, I think we talked more about the structure of the organization, the flow chart, if you will, who reports to who, what I would do differently in that respect, who I thought were, we're talking about department heads now, directors, some VPs on the administration side, nothing to do with the wrestling side. because I want to make this clear. Vince made it, or excuse me, Bill made it clear to me that he wasn't interested in me being at all involved in what he referred to as wrestling operations. Bill had a very clear idea that he wanted the television side of WCW and he wanted the wrestling operation side of WCW. The wrestling operations would be, you know, the head of creative where Booker is it was referred to back then and I think it was Dusty Road.

at the time. But, you know, Bob Doe, who was actually the executive vice president, Bob Doe oversaw both the television side and the wrestling operation side. So I actually reported to, or I did report to Bob Doe once I got the job as executive producer, and then Dusty or whomever also reported up to Bob Doe. So I had nothing to do with the television operation side. Not hiring, not firing. Bill didn't even ask me my opinion about any of the wrestling talent. Strictly focus on the television side of things. I forgot what started that. Well, we're just talking about, you know, the conversation, you know, because it's one thing to show him the idea, but it's another to actually land it. Yeah. It was more about, okay,

this is what you would do differently on a television side. Now let's talk about the television operations itself, directors, producers, how I would structure that differently if I was in charge of it. So it wasn't nearly as exciting of a meeting. It was more clinical in that regard, but it was all focused on television, not on wrestling. At the time, at least in your mind, what were the strengths and weaknesses of WCW coming out of the Bill Watts era? Well, you know, it's interesting because when I I came to WCW, I came in as a third or fourth string announcer. And it's funny, I just ran into the Teddy Long last weekend in Hamburg, Pennsylvania,

excuse me, in Atlanta the week before that. And Teddy and I joked about it because we both, you know, we hosted the Sunday night main event syndicated show. Well, I don't know, maybe 12 markets around the country actually used that program, actually aired it we did all the we did all the work that nobody else had time for wanted to do but i was grateful for that gig and so was teddy at the time and i'm sorry again what was the question what were what were the strengths and weaknesses of w c w c w coming out of the bill wats era so my point in that is because i wasn't a threat to anybody when i was hired as an announcer because of my level as an

announcer. I was just batten clean up for Tony and Tony Schabani and Jim Ross. I wasn't a threat to anybody. Nobody could get anything from, I didn't have anything to offer anybody. So nobody was working me. Nobody was pretending to be my friend just because they thought somehow it would be an advantage for them. In fact, it was the opposite because I was the outsider that nobody really knew. So it took me a while. But I became, because I wasn't a threat to anybody, it made it easy for me to get to know people. They were very open and honest with me. They were presenting the side of themselves that they wanted me to see because they thought

there might be some benefit in it to them. I spent hours talking to Keith Mitchell, hours every week, about his background, what he thinks WCW needed to do differently. And this is long before I knew there'd ever be an opportunity for me to become executive producer. This was just the course of our conversations. And I learned a lot about production in WCW because of those hours of conversations. So I had a feel for the production side of things. And there were some very talented people there.

Keith being one of the most talented, actually, in what he did. I learned a lot about Kemper Rogers. I learned a lot about Craig Leathers. I learned a lot about Jackie Crockett, you know, I learned a lot about the critical components of WCW's production and the people in it because I didn't threaten anybody's job and people were open and honest. So it was easy for me to once I was sitting down with Bill and Bill would say, well, how would you restructure production? Ah, let me tell you how I do it. Not because I was a smartest fucker in a world, but because I had an opportunity to have hours and hours and hours and hours. conversations over the course of a year and a half for two years with the people that were in

those spots. I heard them talk about the weaknesses in the post-production side of things and why those weaknesses existed and how to overcome those weaknesses and who would be best to help overcome those weaknesses. So it's like I'd been doing a year and a half for two years with a research on the subject with two and a half for two years with a research on the subject without even knowing I was doing research. So when the subject came up, to how would you restructure production, for example. Ah, let me tell you how I'd do that. When the subject came up with, what would you do to make the show look better?

I probably had talked to, I don't know who it was. I don't want to not give credit to somebody that I should or give credit to somebody that I shouldn't. But, you know, we talked many times, I talked to about, man, if we had a, if we had a boom camera that would come in with a wide angle lens so that in our opening shot, we could do that big, it was a jib camera, we could do that big sweeping shot of the arena with a fish eye lens. not too noticeable but noticeable it would make the event feel bigger it would make the venue feel bigger you know the little things like that on the production side of things that i'd been just conversing with people about for a long time so that it made it easy for me to have those conversations with bill it wasn't like the first time i'd ever you know touched on the subject i'm curious from your perspective as far as the on screen not just the way you would approach

television but you know WCW at this time is losing cash they're clearly the number two player and then it sort of falls off a cliff there's not a number three in sight but there was a valley between where the WWF was and you guys were did you think as far as the in ring product did you think you had what you needed at that time to be competitive or be in the conversation with the WWB, or was that not even on your radar at this time? It's strictly about the approach to television. Strictly about the approach to television. I didn't.

And again, I've said this before on this show. I didn't have any experience on the creative side, on the wrestling side of the wrestling business. I had no experience in that area while I was in AWA. It took Vern a long time before he would let me near. And the only reason he did eventually is because, is he had to use me as an announcer because he didn't have anybody else to do it. So he had to let me inside of the actual production of the wrestling show and quote

unquote smart me up, right? But that took me two years in AWA. I was never in a creative meeting. If I walked into a room at the end of the day, like around 5.30, 6 o'clock and, you know, Vern and Wahoo and Ray and myself, Mike Shields occasionally, you know, we'd all sit around in the lobby and have a beer at the end of the day and just shoot the shit, right? I mostly was listening to Wahouma Daniels and Ray Stevens tell little wrestling stories. But if any of those conversations started leaning into the creative side of things,

it was like time for me to leave the room. Earn was very, very strict about that. So I had no experience, confidence in myself in that regard, or any interest in getting involved. the Nats side of the business. So all I thought about was the television side. I didn't think about the wrestling side of things. Well, I'm glad to know you didn't have a hard on for the in ring wrestling stuff.

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So listen, Eric, there's lots of rumor and innuendo that perhaps you weren't the only person who was interested in this executive producer role. You were up against, allegedly, according to the legend, David Crockett, Tony Chivani, Keith Mitchell, at least all of these folks were encouraged to pursue the position. You ultimately land it. Was there anybody else that you know of who threw their hat in the ring here? Nobody that I knew personally or didn't know the names of, but Bill Shaw did tell me that they had been interviewing or were going to interview somebody out of New York with a sports production. background television background so um but i i never did get the name and i didn't care didn't ask i wonder if that's the guy who that that timeline makes sense you know there was uh john philippelli

who had worked with nbc and then wbd but then he left when bruce came back and yeah that could have been interesting to see if maybe and you know i didn't even know i didn't ask nor did i want to know who else in WCW was interested in that job or applied for the job. I didn't know until long afterwards, like after years and years and years afterwards that Tony and and Jim Ross had actually interviewed for the job. In a weird way, I heard they did. I don't know if it's even a fact. In a weird way, it's probably a superpower, a little low key advantage for you because you don't have that, hey, here's how we did things in Jim Crockett. Here's how we did. did things in world class you didn't have any of that um but you get the call one day you wrote in

your book that you didn't expect to get the job but bill calls one day and says congratulations eric you're the new executive producer tell me what that call felt like god just hearing you say that maybe too i was i don't know that i've ever had a thing i don't know that i've ever had a feeling like that in my life since it was such because i didn't expect it i honestly didn't expect it and because i already had my mind made up to pursue something else i i i didn't react like i think i probably would today i was i was weightless that's the best way to say it i felt like i elevated, you know, off the ground. And it was such a cool feeling because I knew that our life had changed. Right. You know, and changed in a way that I never would have expected. I've been

an entrepreneur all my life. I've had successes. I've had failures. I've had challenges. I've had those big high moments. That roller coaster is a roller coaster. I've been on my entire life. and I was ready to jump on another roller coaster and head to L.A., but I knew that this opportunity was going to provide a level of stability that up until that point, Lori and I really had never enjoyed before. It was an opportunity to raise my game in a way and to build a career in a way that I never, ever would have anticipated. I never saw myself as part of a corporation. I was never, never aspired for that or to that. I was a little bit in shock, actually, in a great way. And I, I couldn't wait to tell my wife.

You know, we've spent a lot of time on the show over the years talking about Mrs. B. And I know that she supports you in all ways. And in a lot of ways, you, you won the wife lottery. We're big fans of Mrs. B. But was, what was her reaction? I mean, I know that she signed. up to be a co-pilot with a serial entrepreneur. But when it feels like, wait a minute, you mean

we're going to have kind of a normal deal here for a while? Was that exciting for her? Was it a sense of relief? What was Lori's reaction? She was ecstatic. Yeah. Because she is, you know, I did win the wife lottery. She's been along for every ride. Yes. You know, the highs, the lows, all the crap in between, plus, you know, learning how to deal with my bullshit, which is a challenge in and of itself. I think the sense of relief mixed with optimism for the future, keep in mind, we had two really young kids at that time, and we never really had experienced that feeling of stability because of my nature, because I was ready to leave Turner her broadcasting to go to go become an independent television producer because I had some success

selling one show. I was ready to say goodbye to it all and go start another adventure. And as much as she was there for that, you know, we had two young kids. And I think it just it made her feel that the ability to have a stable, secure life for the first time in our lives was pretty exciting to her. It's maybe not as exciting for the people who work in WCW. Here's some quotes from people who were working with WCW. Mick Foley wrote in his book that it was actually DDP who called to tell him that it was Bish who took over.

Bish was Eric Bischoff, who had been until that time an announcer and a not very good one. I don't know. What I didn't know was that Bischoff had been impressing the Turner Brass with his reasonable ideas and his smooth personality in a sense. he had been impressing them by being everything that Bill Watts was not. I actually thought for a while that the whole Bischoff thing was going to work out well for me. As an announcer, Eric had not exactly been the most respected guy among the wrestlers, and I was one of the few guys who hadn't treated him like a peon.

I actually considered the guy a friend, and hey, there are worse things in the world than having a friend for your boss. Unfortunately, something happened I hadn't counted on. once in power Eric made new friends and dirty unkempt cactus jack was it on the new list actually I can't say Bischoff was ever bad to me and maybe I wasn't completely off the list but I had been pushed down it so let's talk about that because Tony Chivani has said on his podcast before that once you got promoted he went to dinner he and his wife Lois went to dinner with you and lorry and he said something to you along the lines of you're going to have to change now things

are going to have to change and he says that you sort of dug your heels in and almost argued that a little bit like what no i'm not going to change and he says no eric you're going to have to and when you read what mick wrote it feels as if you had to change i want to give you a chance to respond to what mick wrote about the way he felt like he had treated you like a human being and other wrestlers who treated you like a peon and how maybe from his perspective once you moved into power, maybe he moved down your list a little bit. I want you to respond to both of those. It's kind of weird to hear Mick say that. I had developed a pretty good friendship with a lot of the talent, at least a very good relationship with a lot of the talent.

I got along great with Steve Austin when he was there and Brian Pillman when he was there and a lot of the other talent when they were there. Did I hang out with him and socialize after shows and things like that? Generally no, but I had a very good working relationship with all of them, including Steve Borden, by the way. Not all of them, for sure. So to listen to Mick characterize things the way that he did is a little surprising me and a little bitter sound. coming from Mick, but whatever. I got along with Mick, no differently than I got along with most of the talent there. I think there were occasions when we socialized outside of, you know, the wrestling environment.

Most notably with a woman by the name of Sandra Glass, who was married to an extremely wealthy person who wanted to get into the movie-making business since you wanted to do a movie with Mick Foley or something like that. And I was invited to be a part of those conversations for a while. But beyond that, you know, my relationship with Mick was no real, really different than it was with the majority of the talent, or at least to my knowledge. Look, I let Mick go because Mick was dangerous. Mick was intent on wrestling this extreme high-risk wrestling style,

jumping off balconies and things like that. In fact, that was the last straw. And I let Mick go because Mick was a liability not only to himself, but in the cases of certain, in certain circumstances than WCW, he was dangerous to the fans, not intentionally, obviously. But when you're jumping off balconies down in onto the floor in front of the crowd, things can go wrong. And working for Turner, one of the things that had to change was that we had to be mindful of litigation, not only from talent, but from fans.

And Turner had been through the litigation mill for a long time. And Mick was so intent on doing, you know, the student. super extreme, high-risk stuff, that it was either, Mick, either you agree to not do those things in a cool that are comfortable, you know, changing your presentation, or you can't do them here. And that's why Mick left. I think that's probably why some of what Mick wrote, at least I interpreted, is being somewhat bitter and resentful. There were some, there were some shots in that little quote that started really weird coming from Mick. Mick made his own decision to leave

WCW. He was given a choice and he chose to continue wrestling the way he wrestled, which is you know, I mean, he went on to do some amazing things in WWE and had some great success and built a legacy for himself by

jumping off cages and doing all the things that probably make it difficult for him to walk up a flight of stairs to this day. He was willing to sacrifice his health to achieve those moments of of success and and in those memories it just wasn't going to work in in corporate wcw we'll talk we'll table the mc foley talk for another time because he does have a

different um version of why he left and not to dispute what you said but uh i think maybe his confidence in wcd management was was lost steve austin had this to say i don't know how he got the job from announcer to running the whole ship over there, but it's quite impressive. He's a charismatic guy, a lot of vision, a lot of determination, and obviously he can sell ice to an Eskimo. It surprised me, but he figured this guy must know what he's doing, or he's just real smart or real sneaky. I don't know why, but real sneaky made me laugh. David Crockett had this to say, I made a pitch to Bill Shaw about being the, I guess, executive vice president. He told me, he said, David, I cannot let a

Crockett be here. I cannot do it. He said, but I'm going to hire this young man. He said, Eric Bischoff, I feel he will be good. And I want you to guard his back and help him in every way. And so that's what I did. Every week, I'd have lunch with Bill and, you know, we taught things, you know, how's it going? And I said, he's learning. He's learning. And a lot of times Eric would go over to jocks and jills and say, you know, I can't do this. I can't do this. And I'd say, yes, you can. Yes, you can. And now look at him now. We haven't spent much time talking about David Crockett, but was David in your cheerleader? Was he a good number two and a supporter for you? Yes. Yes. And in. I don't recall every second. I can't do this. That is totally against my nature,

but whatever. Um, I think he just means paraphrasing. You were frustrated at times. And you might have been frustrated. Of course. At times. But there was never a moment where I sat down and cried in my beer and said, I'm not capable of doing this. That's just, I don't think those words have ever come out of my mouth. Yeah. Um, but David was, look, he was, he was there and was, and this is where I really, really began to value my relationship with David. Because I made choices and decisions that I wanted to pursue that were so antithetical to the wrestling business. For example, going to the Disney MGM Studios. That was a hugely unpopular decision amongst everybody other than Bill Shaw and corporate Turner because they understood why I wanted to do it and they could see the value

in doing it. Whereas your typical wrestling person, it was like, you could just shoot wrestling in a sound stage. I mean, Disney? Oh my God, this is a wrestling business. And you're going to partner with Disney, it was so antithetical is the only word I can think of. The wrestling business, there were only two people in WCW that were supportive of it. David Crockett was one. Do you know who the other one was? No. Dusty Rhodes.

And at that point in time, I went, these are my two guys. Not that other people weren't, you know, important in the process and I didn't value them. but it's like, okay, if I'm in a trench and there's a war going on and I'm fighting for my life and I can only pick two people to be in that trench with me, it would have been Dusty Roads of David Crockett because they were supportive in a decision that was across the boards unpopular with everybody else. Everybody else thought I was nuts except for Dusty and David Crockett. David Crockett was with me when I pitched Disney MGM Studio. which was a whole other story.

But I was in a room full of executives. When I'd say roomful, there were probably a dozen, could have been 10, could have been eight, somewhere in between of executives from Disney, MGM Studios. And I had a meeting with those executives, and one of them was a gentleman by the name of Bob Allen. At the time, Bob was probably about my age, maybe a little bit older.

And Bob was actually, he was the VP. of operations of Disney MGM Studios at the time. I think that was his title. And some of the people in that room with him were his bosses. Some of the people in that room worked underneath, Bob. But I had to have a meeting to go in and pitch the idea of bringing WCW's syndicated production for their worldwide show primarily. I was pitching them the idea of coming in and spending eight or ten days at a time

at the Disney MGM studios in shooting wrestling. The only person in that room with me to support me in that pitch was David Crockett. Everybody on the Disney side was looking at their watch, fidgeting, getting up, going, getting a cup of coffee. None of them wanted to be in that meeting. They were all so against having professional wrestling being produced on the, I might have well said, I'm coming in and I'm going to shoot porn here at Disney. The reaction would have been almost the same, except for one guy. That was Bob Allen.

Bob Allen was very supportive in Cell Division, and in large part, not because of me, but because of David and David's experience in production, David was able to fill in a lot of the technical blanks that came up in the course of those conversations that I couldn't adequately fill. So, yeah. David became a real ally. And not just because he supported me, but because he added value and was good at things that I was not as good at and

not as articulate in and experienced him. It was, it was, he was great. Well, something else that is going to help you be great and help you be a backstop, if you will, a great support system are our friends at Rocket Money. and Eric and I have both shared our personal experience with this. We're both using rocket money. We're both saving money as a result of rocket money. And I have to admit, I thought when I first heard about this product,

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I forgot to cancel. I didn't realize it. I hadn't only watched that one fight. I'd paid for it for over a year. It was crazy. Not only that, my wife and I both signed up for Hulu, but we watched TV together. We didn't need two Hulu accounts. I don't think we ever even used hers, but at the start of the pandemic, we did what everybody did, and we signed up for some more streaming services. It's not just that. You see, most folks think that they are only subscribing to like $80 a month worth of subscriptions. In reality, it's probably closer to $200. And when you've signed up for so many, things like those streaming services you use to just watch one show or a free trial for delivery

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Now, J.R. would say one of your first moves was taking him off the air. And before we go any further, there's another part of J.R.'s book, I at least want to bring up here. He wrote that before Watts was reassigned, as you were thinking of leaving WCW, I suppose, Watts instructed J.R. to cut you loose. and J.R. says he wouldn't do it just because he thought you were a good guy and he wasn't

going to fire you because Bill thought you were an asshole. Did you ever hear that story that perhaps J.R. saved your gig when Watts was running the show? No, I didn't read his book and this is the first I've ever heard of that. Yeah. Well, it was no cutting me loose. I had a contract, so I'm not sure what cutting me loose meant, but whatever. Let's talk about. I guess he could have sent me home and paid me, but that wasn't Bill style. Right. No, it was not. How quickly, I mean, when you get involved, how quickly are you

making decisions like the announcers? Right off the bat. Okay. Right off the bat. The look and feel of the show was my, that was my focus. That was why I was hired. That's why I was given the job. How do you, how will you change the look and feel of the show, Eric, in order

to make it a better television product and more competitive. So Disney MGM Studios was a big part of that. We talked to ad nauseum about the fact that WCW couldn't, we couldn't put 1,500 people, 2,000 people in a television taping to save our lives. We were giving tickets away. We're doing the two-for-ones. When the two-for-ones didn't work, we'd give them away for free, when that didn't work.

If we give you a ticket, you take your ticket stub, you can get a free piece of pizza down the row. I mean, we did everything you could possibly do to try to fill those arenas so that they looked good on television and we couldn't. And that had been happening for years and years before I became executive producer. So the only way to fix the look of our television show. And, you know, little things like, and these are the things that, you know, came up in discussion a lot. You know, Bill Watts, a solution to not being able to sell tickets for television tapings was to turn down the lights. Let's create. Literally, and I'm not making this shit up. It was like, no, here's what we're going to do. We're going to go back to the way television used to look in the 60s and the 70s

when it was produced in a television studio. All of the focus is going to be on the ring, and we're not even going to be able to see those seats that aren't filled. I shits you not. Remember what I said earlier on this show? You know, your ability to survive is your ability and your willingness to that things are going to change and adapt with them and hopefully get out in front of him. Bill Watts was the exact opposite. I know things are changing, but I'm not, we're going to go back to doing things the way we did it in 1967. It's like, what the fuck? But, you know, shooting shows at Disney ensured me that I'd have at least six or 700 sober people

inside of the Disney and Jim Studios. And a lot of them would be kids because it's kids in front. families that are there. And we would be able to use the, the mouse ears, the logos and things associated with Disney to send a message to the corporate side, the business to business side of the wrestling business, to advertisers and sponsors. We had to change the way our show felt. And going to Disney was a big part of that. Look at those Hawaiian shirts. We look just look at that. If you're not watching, you should be. It's 83 weeks on YouTube.com. Did you mean to cut you off?

Yeah, no. But shooting these shows at Disney, we're a big part of that because when you know you're going to have an audience and you have control to that sound state so you can light it perfectly, you can change some of the lenses on some of your cameras to make it feel a little bigger than it really is. That was a big part of it. The other part of it was my opinion at that time, still my opinion, is that the show had too much of a small regional sound to it. Truth be known, WCW, you said earlier on, it was number two. It might as well have been number 22. The distance between the viewership and the brand awareness between WWE and WCW, we were number two technically, but we were not competition,

even remotely competition to WWE. And part of that was because, you know, WCW, when Ted Turner bought Crockett Promotions out of bankruptcy, created WCW, a lot of the talent, a lot of the staff, the announcers that came with it were all from that region of the country where the NWA and Crockett promotions were so successful. And there was a sameness to it. There was a familiarity with it.

I had to change that. I wanted the show to have a more national feel as opposed to a regional feel. And Jim Ross had a very distinctive southern accent. Tony didn't. Tony's from the South, but Tony didn't have that southern draw and didn't leave that impression. Tony was more agnostic in that respect. And yes, I did. That was one of the first moves I made was to get Jim.

off being the main announcer because not because I didn't like Jim and not because I didn't think Jim was good at what he did. He was great at what he did. It's just that it was time to make a change for the sake of making a change and to appeal to a broader audience than the regional southern audience that became so familiar with WCW and therefore Jim Ross at the time. Well, I for one am really glad that Rick Flair gave you this job. He had this to say. Bob Doe asked if I could make myself readily available to help him. And I had to tell him the truth. Look, Bob, I can't be an executive and a wrestler.

I don't want to spread myself too thin. He then followed up with a question that would live in infamy. What do you think of Eric Bischoff? Bischoff was a wrestling announcer who seemed to have a lot of knowledge about the entertainment business and was constantly pitching ideas. I like Bischoff. I think he's aggressive and smart, I replied. I had the same discussion with Bill Shaw. He was torn between Bischoff and Oly Anderson.

And I know this is going to hurt some. feelings but honestly I wasn't impressed with Oli at this point yes he had the history but booking the old Georgia territory and working the Omni but he was a gruff and rough and tough guy his mind was rooted in the past when he booked WCW for a while it was a disaster Eric seemed much more contemporary I'm really glad that Rick got you this gig man he must have been into his fifth bottle of wine when he dictated that portion of his book to whoever wrote it that's the most ridiculous. First of all, I was hired as executive producer and went through the

entire process before Rick Flair came back to W from WWE. So let's make it, let's call bullshit. I know he's your father-in-law. And I really do, despite all the stupid shit that has gone on between Rick and I still respect Rick a lot. And I have an affection for Rick. That being said, if he actually said that in his book and it wasn't something that somebody else just created for him well hang on let me let me say this because there's more at first bischoff and bob do were a team but almost immediately eric started maneuvering to get rid of bob something i still feel guilty about is something i unwillingly unwittingly helped bischoff with this scheme how's bob doing shaw asked one day he's struggling i admitted does bischoff seem

like the type of guy who can make decisions definitely in reality i did bob a favor He still had the job of Turner's Corporation, so he just went back over to the Omni. When WCW started falling apart, Bob Dew was nowhere in sight. You know, Conrad, that this is 100% bullshit, right? Yes. It is a 100% Rick Flair fiction. As I said, I went through the interview process and was hired as executive producer while Rick was still in WWE before he had any conversations about coming back to WCW.

Rick Flair had never had a conversation with me before he came back from WWE to WCW. That's when Rick first met me. albeit there was one brief 35 or 45 second exchange. My very first day on the job as Rick Flair was leaving to go to WWE, my very first television taping was in Anderson, South Carolina, and Rick was stretching, and I went back, and I introduced myself, and Rick was polite and kind and very, but it was maybe a 30-second, hey, I'm Eric Bischoff. Good to meet you, Mr. Flair. Boom, I was out. Up until the time Rick Flair came back to WCW, which by that time I had already been hired and been given the

position, Bill Shaw wasn't talking to Rick Flair about Eric Bischoff. He, he, he, he, he, The fact that Rick said in his book that Bill was considering Olli Anderson as the executive producer, I don't need to say anymore. That is the most ridiculous bullshit anybody has ever written in a wrestling book that they would hope somebody would believe. I believe, you know, my, we've, we've been honest on this show before. And Bruce has said this really loud and proud on something to wrestle. Sometimes people try to call you out. on things you say on this show Eric and they say that's not true and they try to hang their hat on one thing that was said. I want to give Rick the same latitude here though. This is

the way he remembers it much like the things we're talking about on this show or the way you remember it. I don't think for a minute that Rick is just going to go out of his way to lie in the book. But we all disagree. But go ahead. Okay. Well, if we're going to do that, let's talk about let's sidebar and talk about Hulk Hove and playing bass for Metallica. I'm just saying that's the way he believes it brother like that doesn't mean he's intentionally lying i i mean i know that the internet's going to have a lot of fun with that clip i just said there because i don't believe that any of these guys just sit down and look at the camera and say okay now here's the lie that's just hard for me to i don't know i want to give them the benefit of the doubt and say somehow some way they've

told themselves a story in their head enough now they believed it and i also think with rick it could be a case of he's getting the timelines conflated because we're talking about taking over television he's talking about taking over EVP. We should at least acknowledge there are other players involved here. Oli Anderson is going, while you're running TV, Oli is going to be named vice president of wrestling operations. So maybe there's maybe that's where he's getting confused. We should also mention there's a third pillar, if you will,

and Sharon Sadello and she's going to handle some stuff. And I guess that's going to be heading up pay-per-view and turn her home entertainment or whatever it is. Rob Garner, I believe, is going to be helping handle some syndications. so there's lots of moving parts here and I think you know 20 30 years later as people tell the story they get their timelines confused no response or they want to take credit for things that they shouldn't take credit for and you're right for Hulk Hogan to come out and say that he played bass for Metallica is just fucking stupid because it's pretty easy to to call bullshit on that just like it's pretty easy to call bullshit on everything that Rick wrote in his book

as it relates to me and when I get hired. Now, you can, and listen, I've said it before, you know, and I'm a believer. People start telling stories over and over and over again, especially wrestling personalities. The first thing, they're doing promos. They're getting themselves over. Rick is taking credit for getting me the opportunity to be the executive producer of the show. And all you need to look are the facts in a timeline and go, that's not possible. well it's not even realistic i for one we can throw a lot of the other stuff in there but again

i'm just i'm reacting to what he wrote in his book sure what he might have been thinking right on a different day well i for one i'm really glad that gregg ghani gave you all the ideas that got you the job uh yeah i'd like to get you know we should set up a on every show's thing and get Greg Gunny and Larry Zabisco to debate who really came up with the NWO idea because they both would take a credit for it, which is kind of fun. Well, here's my favorite part. He had this to say. My first reaction was Eric got the job.

He's my new boss. Eric had been calling me all the time asking what we can do to make things work down here. And I was telling him what I thought like a dipshit. And he presented all that in his presentation for the EP position and he got the job. So. So just tell me what ideas did you steal directly from Greg to get your executive producer, John? I actually, the only time I made reference to Greg Ganya is, you know, I know this guy by the name of Greg Ganya and let's get a list of everything he thinks is a good idea and do the exact opposite. Oh.

That's not true. It didn't really come up. Greg's name never came up. Greg is just a week, you know, kind of broke down, never was able to fill. his father's shoes and never was able really to do anything for himself once his father passed away and didn't provide Greg an opportunity. Greg just kind of fell by the wayside and he's bitter and he's resentful and says a lot of stupid shit and that's just more of it.

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Go to drinkag1.com forward slash 83 weeks. What did I just say? I said, that's drinkag1. com forward slash 83 weeks. Check it out and you can thank me later. As a reminder, when you become executive producer, we mentioned that Sharon Sadello is going to run pay-per-view, you're going to run TV and Oli's going to handle wrestling operations. So Bob do is technically in the big seat. He's the EVP. and you wrote that you and he would butt heads almost immediately. Of course, we've talked about this before,

but his idea to increase revenues is to run more live events. You don't think that's scaling. You're looking for some cost-cutting effects. We've talked a little bit about Disney, and I'm sure we'll talk more about that in the future. But the other thing that we should bring up is it doesn't take long for you to impress everybody at corporate. They really like your approach and your ambition and your presentation.

And you wrote a lot in your book about your, issues with Bob do and i'm just wondering how did that whole bob do bill shaw eric bischoff melting pot come together and then ultimately fall apart well because bob bob had control over the wrestling side of the business and all of the focus the only focus i had in my role was to help the company become profitable to grow the television side of the business, which would in turn grow the advertising sponsorship side of the business. Bob's job was to create revenue on the wrestling side of the business, live events, pay-per-views, that type of thing, managing the talent budget. So I didn't really care too much about what Bob did or didn't do as it related to his

side of the business. I did care about my side of the business. Occasionally, like once a month, when we're going over financials because keep in mind at the time i was made executive producer wcw was grossing about 25 million dollars a year in gross revenues all money in but losing 10 million dollars a year in the process that was not sustainable and one of the things that bill said in that initial meeting was before he announced that he was going to hire an executive producer this is the last shot wcd has if this company doesn't turn a profit ted himself will pull the place plug because everybody was walking around Turner Broadcott. Larry Zabiscoe came up to me, my first day on the job.

I mean, Anderson, South Carolina and said, hey, kid, just keep your nose down, keep your head down, don't get in any trouble. You've got a job for life because nobody cares that this company makes money or not. Those were Larry Zabisco's almost exact words. I paraphrased a little bit. So this feeling, the consensus among everybody outside of, you know, the business side of, the Turner side of wrestling was that, hey, it didn't matter if we're losing money. Ted's going to keep doing it because he loves wrestling and we're getting good ratings.

And people conducted business accordingly. I didn't. I didn't buy that. Bill made it clear before I was hired for the job that if WCW didn't turn the finances around, Ted, the only savior that WCW had because everybody else in turn of broadcasting wanted to pull the plug except for Ted. Once Bill said either you make money or you're going to go away and Ted will put a bullet in it at himself, I got serious. I've told you the story. I made people go back and count their pencils. Not because I gave a shit about how many pencils they had,

but because I wanted people to start thinking about their resources and how they use their resources. It was kind of an example. So once a month, you know, Bill Shaw, myself, Bob Dew, some of the other VPs, we'd have a meeting and we'd go over, we'd look at the forecast. What are we going to do to turn things around? And the live event side of the business was fucking hemorrhaging money.

you couldn't print money fast enough to burn it as fast as the live event side of the business was burning it so when Bill Shaw said this okay come back with a plan both you guys all of you people marketing everybody come together we need a plan that's going to turn this thing around Bob do's plan was to do more live events yeah that doesn't work even though you lost money every time he went out the door, because you didn't want to fix the problem, you just camouflage it by having a higher gross revenue, but along the way, you're going to lose more money doing it. And I flipped out over that. I called it because up until that point, I didn't care. It was my business. My business was over here. His business was over there.

You go fuck up as much shit as you want to fuck up on your side. Just don't come near my side. And we'll get along fine. But once I got involved, invited to that discussion, I didn't hold back. And I think I probably said something that sounded like, wait a minute, I am not a finance guy. My wife won't let me out of the house with a checkbook. However, your solution to losing money every time you go out the door, Bob, is to go out the door more often.

I'm sorry. That doesn't make sense even to me. That was the end of the relationship between Bob Dew and I. It was a beginning of, it was not the end. There was some things that led up to it. I had a meeting at Disney MGM Studios for, not at the studios, but at a restaurant with a potential sponsor, somebody I was trying to, to impress. And I went over to Bob Doose Hotel to pick him up in the morning to get ready to go have

this meeting and he smelled like a distillery and he only had one shoe. He couldn't find his other shoe. And he literally came out to my car wearing one shoe smelling like he just left the bar three hours ago. So I went at that point, you know, I'm not. not protecting anybody here. I'm certainly not going to do damage to myself or anything I'm trying to do by pretending that this is a good thing. So yeah, the relationship definitely took a hard turn to the to the right after the discussion about live events and how to improve the

situation. And by the way, once Bob and Bill saw it, and Bill liked Bob a lot. Bob was such a personable guy. And that's, you know, that's a hard part. It was just a wonderful guy to hang out with great sense of humor you'd always want to be around him for the fun of it just not for the business of it but once bob heard that back and forth between or once bill heard that back and forth between bob and i bob was gone he was out the door and that's when i get hired to be the evp well that's what we're going to talk about next uh the observer would write this after much discussion and speculation over the past week world championship wrestling has reverted back to a booking committee composed of those already in

involved on the previous booking team, Dusty Rhodes, old Anderson, Eric Bischoff, Greg Ganya, Mike Graham, etc. It appears the final decision-making power rests with Bischoff. It seems to be the most influential individual in WCW besides or since Bill Shaw is crediting the Disney tapings as a major success, and Bischoff is getting the lion's share of credit for the shows. Both Funk and Jaret were spoken with by Shaw and Dew over the past few weeks about a spot in the organization, but to the best of my knowledge, neither were given a firm

offer or specific spot among many things funk felt coming in with bischoff having the final decision-making power wasn't an environment he wanted to be a part of um you eventually get promoted soon after that it's the success as i understand it of the clash of the champions 24 that makes you the senior vice president as a reminder that show did a 3.8 rating there were 2.32 million homes watching that show and with your promotion David Crockett is also going to be promoted to executive in charge of all television production so here you are eight months later running the show and Arne Anderson had this to say about you it was one of those things

that since he was going to be a hands-on guy from how he explained it to us and yeah I was along for the ride when you talk to Eric he sold himself as a guy who understood the business. Now, there had been executives, Jim Hurd and different guys that were the boss, but you never saw the boss. You know, he was in the tower. We were out running the deal. Whoever was in the interim contact, very seldom would talk to you, the executive of

the company. Eric was the kind of the first executive that was always on TV. He was hands-on and more part of the process than anybody before him. In those days, if there was political stuff to be handled, Rick Flair did more than anybody. He was very political guy. I remember him saying, Bischoff is the guy for the job. He's going to do a good job. I like what Arn points out here that you were more hands on than maybe everybody before you.

Did you view that as something that was going to be necessary for the success of WCW? I can't just be in the office. I've got to be involved. It just came to. I mean, look, I came up, you know, in syndication. I taught, I taught myself production, meaning I, after hours, I would hang around with Joe Chupac, Polish Joe, who is a head of production in AWA.

And I just watched him. I learned by watching and eventually learned how to edit shows, wanted to learn how television is actually made. Later on, I ended up in front of the camera. And then after I ended up in front of the camera, I oftentimes was behind the camera for AWA. I promoted live events. I created some pretty successful corporate sponsorships for AWA.

So I'd had my hand. I didn't know everything really well, but I had experienced. experience in everything, which is probably one of the reasons I ended up with the job. I didn't just know the television syndication side of things, or just the production side of things, or just the live event side of things, or just the talent side of things. I had experience in almost every aspect of the business of the wrestling business, whereas most people who were looking for that opportunity did not. That has a lot to do with why I got the job.

But it also has a lot to do with why I was hands-on with as much as I. I could be, because I understood it enough to know when I was stepping in dog shit or not. Where I, you know, I had to know, you know, I wanted to know how pay-per-view was working from the ground up. I wanted to know how syndication was working from the ground up. I wanted to be in on those meetings because I understood it well enough to possibly see where improvements could be made. So it was just natural for me to be hands on. It wasn't something I felt like I needed to do. in fact we talked about it last last week one of the things that i had to learn not to do

was have my hands on everything it's one of the things harvey schiller told me i needed to up my game as an executive is to learn how to delegate more and not be involved in every aspect of the business it's fascinating the best advice you know what's funny is they say it's the success of clash of the champions 24 that led to you getting the promotion do you remember where clash of the Champions 24 was? No, I don't. Daytona Beach. Ah.

Same place where three years later, you turned Hulk Cogan. But that was, but you know, that was all coincidental. I know, but the success of the show wasn't the reason I got the job. It was just timing. I get it,

but damn it, let me just say Daytona Beach has been pretty good to you. Yeah, I should look for some property down there. I mean, you hit a home run every time you're down there. Of course, we know it took you eight months to go

from EP to EVP, and over the next eight or 12 months, you're really going to write the ship not only in terms of the television product, but the debt. I mean, we're trying to dig out a profit here. And once we sort of have things headed in that direction, it clears the path for you to go after talent like Hulk Hogan and Randy Savage and, of course, the outsiders. And then the rest is history. But I find it interesting that you don't get enough credit for how you turn the company around, even all these years later. I mean, the people, people who are really in the business who pay attention, sure. But the naysayers who like to chirp on social media or sell some clicks here, they make it as if, oh, well, he had Ted Turner's

checkbook. Yeah, well, so did everybody else. And they didn't do it. But we talked a little bit today about how you turn this thing around. And we got a handful of questions. We'll get to a few of them and then we'll wrap this one up. Instagram or wrestling historian wants to know, But what would be your best advice to somebody wanting to get a senior management corporate job? That's an interesting question. God, I don't even know. You know, I mean, that's such a big, broad question. I think the answer is probably do your research, be passionate, have a clear idea, be different than everybody else.

Don't come in and try to sell the same thing as everybody else is probably selling with a little bit of a variation. Be unique, be different, be aggressive. be smart, do your research, work your ass off. Here's one from Francis. What did you find most challenging about being a VP with WCW? Interfacing with the corporate side,

you know, as much as everybody thought, I did such a great job of, you know, smootzing people into corporate side and I con my way into the job. Thanks, McFillam. I'm going to remember this.

That part of it was difficult for me because I'm an entrepreneur and always have been, because I'm independent, I've got a fairly strong personality. I've never been one to be very comfortable for more than 20 minutes or so in a very corporate environment. I'm not that guy. I don't want to be that guy. I don't play politics. I've never wanted to play politics. I don't tolerate people who do very well. And I call bullshit. Whether somebody's three, three flights of stairs up the food chain for me or not, I've never, ever been afraid to call bullshit. So that made it difficult for me for obvious reasons, especially as time went on and WCW got bigger and more successful and stakes became higher.

My approach to bullshit never really changed. My approach to politics within the corporate environment never changed. I just, I resented it so much so that I refute, I, I, I just refused to play. So that made it difficult for me. Really fun question here. Francis Reyes wants to know. What one personal advice would you have given yourself back then that you know now? Learn to be more corporate and more political.

Or at least learn how to hide your feelings about it because I didn't. Things could have been, look, there was a point in time when I walked on water inside a turn of broadcasting. That was the perception because nobody thought WCW would ever, ever become profitable. Nobody. And we not only went from $25 million in gross sales with a $10 million loss, at one point we're up to over $350 million in gross revenue with upwards of $50 million in profit, depending on whose books you believed, within the 36-month period of time. And during that period of time, had I been politically inspired,

or desired to eat my way up to corporate food chain probably could have done a pretty good job at doing that because of the relationship I had with Ted Turner and even Scott Sassa for a period of time. But it just wasn't my thing. Francis Reyes wants to know. Do you remember the first thing you bought when you became VP of WCW? Do you have a fun first purchase? I think about a Porsche. Yeah. It was a black one, right? Yes, it was a black brush.

The Porsche is pulling up now. Zoel Lopez was to know. What was the first personal item you placed in your office after being promoted to EVP? A picture of my wife, my kids, still have it to this day. It's not here in my studio out in the bunk house, but it's in the house. And it's the same thing that I put in my office, my first day of the job in AWA. Eddie says, do you still have the $1 note that was presented to you? Of course, there's that famous story.

No, man, I wish I did. golly I wish I did I thought I think I bought a slim gym with it on my way home from we'll do one last one and this is an interesting one how Haney wants to know do you have any tips on how to negotiate a contract I know there's I mean here's my deal and again it kind of goes hand in hand with the fact that I just don't like

cosplay and bullshit and politics, and I just don't like the whole process. Just be as straightforward and honest as you can be. Yeah. You know, if I'm, if I'm, if I'm negotiating for myself, I make it really clear what I need in order to feel comfortable and good about a decision. Here are the things that I need. And they're not really negotiable.

If they're, if they don't fit and it's not what works for you, then let's shake hands, have a beer and call it a day. No harm, no foul. because I understand my needs may be different than your ability to provide them. I get it. There's no reason to get shitty over it. But what I don't like is gamesmanship. You know, I'm never like, for example, I'm not going to come in and go, okay, I want to pay $100 for that.

So I'm going to come in and offer $70 and let them kind of work me. I don't, I just don't do that. And by the way, I don't think that's a strength. I think that's a weakness on my part. it's a flaw in my professional game is I just don't like to play games. I'm pretty straightforward about it. And for me, that's always worked best. But everybody's different.

Chris Kay has a logical question for you. Did Eric ever consider bringing Vernian and an advisory role? No, man. Look, I brought Jerry Jarrett in to see if Jerry had something to offer and he didn't. It was, and nothing against Jerry Jarrett, uh, obviously respect what he did and what he achieved at the time he did it and achieved it. But the business had changed so much that guys like Jerry Jared and Greg Gagne, who was there for a while, I even brought in Mike Shields. And Mike Shields was the guy that actually is responsible for breaking me into the

wrestling. Vern Gagne didn't hire me directly. Mike Shields hired me. Vergaany approved it. But Mike Shields is the one that saw that I had something to offer AWA. And there's nobody that I had more respect for or wanted to return the favor to more than Mike Shields. So I brought Mike in as a consultant. I brought Jerry Juer and it as a consultant. I brought different people in his consultants. But the game had changed so much that it didn't work. Not because I didn't want it to work.

It just there was nothing they could contribute. It's it is what it was. It's similar or interesting to me to see how similar. you know so much of the WCW story and the AEW story have in common when you first get on this ride as EP and then become EVP you know eight eight months later you're 38 years old when you take over the reins about the same age Tony Kahn was when he started at EW as well next week we'll be taking a look at a 25 year anniversary of a very special Monday Nitro Brett Hart taking on Hollywood Hogan in the main event well so maybe allegedly

supposedly supposed to happen at SummerSlam 93 it did not but it did happen five years later on nitro we're going to talk about that and so much more next week here on the program uh in the meantime we've got lots of extra bonus content available for you over at ad free shows.com and eric i'm not sure if you saw this or not but your pal haxaw has a brand new series over at ad free shows.com it's called the hacksaw hour we're looking back at some of the classic moments and matches from the golden era and answering fan questions every week and In episode one, Haxxon talked about his jump to WCW and a certain someone he didn't necessarily see eye to eye with. Let's take a listen.

He got to give him credit for being strong cold, but the stunning Steve, that was, yeah, we didn't get along, you know. Like you said, that's a big misconception. Everybody gets along, you know, you don't get along with everybody and you work with Marcus. you know why you know uh you have you have a few friends you have a lot of acquaintances and you have a couple enemies i want to say austin was an enemy but we just didn't get along how about that get that and thousands of other bonus content you know what i have learned to really really appreciate hexal jim dougan he's a funny guy he's got great stories and he's honest as hell nothing but love for hexal catch the whole hacksaw

hour and thousands of hours of other bonus content and do it now with a special offer courtesy of 83 weeks new subscribers save 20% off their first month by going to eric save 20.com that's 20% off month one right now when you go to eric save 20.com Eric I never really know what to expect when we sit down and click record but man today was super fun can't wait for next week in the meantime if you'd like to save a little bunny can I recommend save with conred.com and of course we can help you uh go ahead and get into a new house as well. 83 weeks on YouTube.com is the easiest,

cheapest, best way to support the show. Got lots of fun swag and all that sort of stuff for you as well at 83 weeks, 83 weeks merch.com. If you've got a question for next week, though, man, hit us up right now. It's easy to do. It's 83 weeks on Twitter, Instagram, and Facebook. And we'll see you guys next week right here on 83 weeks with Derek Bischoff. Hey, hey, it's Conrad Thompson.

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