83 Weeks with Eric Bischoff - Episode 290: WCW NITRO 09.28.98 Watch Along

Episode Date: October 2, 2023

On this episode of 83 Weeks, Eric and Conrad fire up the VCR for some exciting WCW Nitro action circa 1998! The guys watch and deliver alternate commentary on a main event years in the making, Hollywood Hulk Hogan versus Bret "The Hitman" Hart, but was this match a couple of years too late? Find out Eric's point of view and all the developments behind the scenes in this edition of 83 Weeks with Eric Bischoff. HENSON SHAVING - It’s time to say no to subscriptions and yes to a razor that’ll last you a lifetime. Visit HENSONSHAVING.com/83WEEKS to pick the razor for you and use code 83WEEKS and you’ll get two years' worth of blades free with your razor–just make sure to add them to your cart. FACTOR - Head to FACTORMEALS.com/83weeks50 and use code 83weeks50 to get 50% off.  DAMN DAILY DOSE - Feeling stuck? Perhaps it's time to talk to a Life Coach. Visit DamnHealthyDose.com and mention 83 Weeks to get the first 2 sessions for free. BLUECHEW - Try BlueChew FREE when you use our promo code 83WEEKS at checkout--just pay $5 shipping. That’s BlueChew.com, promo code 83WEEKS to receive your first month FREE SAVE WITH CONRAD - Stop throwing your money on rent! Get into a house with NO MONEY DOWN and roughly the same monthly payment at SaveWithConrad.com ADVERTISE WITH ERIC - If your business targets 25-54 year old men, there's no better place to advertise than right here with us on 83 Weeks. You've heard us do ads for some of the same companies for years...why? Because it works! And with our super targeted audience, there's very little waste. Go to AdvertiseWithEric.com now and find out more about advertising with 83 Weeks. Get all of your 83 Weeks merchandise at https://boxofgimmicks.com/collections/83-weeks FOLLOW ALL OF OUR SOCIAL MEDIA at https://83weekslinks.com/ On AdFreeShows.com, you get early, ad-free access to more than a dozen of your favorite wrestling podcasts, starting at just $9! And now, you can enjoy the first week...completely FREE! Sign up for a free trial - and get a taste of what Ad Free Shows is all about. Start your free trial today at AdFreeShows.com. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

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Equal Healthy Lended. Woo! Woo! Hey, hey, it's Conrad Thompson, and you're listening to 83 weeks with Eric Bischoff. Eric, what's going on, man? How are you?

Just another day in paradise, and a big day in paradise but another day in paradise well as folks are listening to this you are across the water as my dad used to say uh enjoying all that europe has to offer and along with mrs b but we are still here in the thick of things on 83 weeks and today we've got a very special episode because man there has been all this conversation over the years about should woulda coulda with hogan and breadhart man bruce pritchardt now i got a huge screaming match when we did our WrestleMania 9 episode like six years ago talking about the rumor and innuendo that these guys were supposed to hook up at SummerSlam 93, but it didn't

happen. But it did actually happen, but in WCW, five years later on a nitro of all things. And we're going to be watching that episode today. I don't know what feedback you saw, but I got really good feedback from last week's show. People enjoyed our trip down memory lane talking about your journey. to become an executive producer and then becoming the EVP. And I think you ruffled a few feathers. All of the news sites were quoting you left and right about the he said she

says with Foley and Ganya and Flair. Oh my. What was your experience last week? Did you have as much fun with that episode as I did? No. No, I didn't have any fun. Actually. Actually.

And I was angry at myself. You know, we got done doing that podcast. And I was just in a. foul mood. Foul mood. And it doesn't happen that much anymore to me. I don't get angry with other people very easily anymore. I don't allow that to happen. But I do get kind of hot with myself and angry with myself because I sometimes let my emotions get the better of me. And usually it's childish shit that somehow gets to me. That's the stuff that pisses me on. Look, you know,

I'll be very honest about it. You know, the Foley comments, more than anything, it hurt my feelings. And not to sound like a, you know, a wimp, but it just did. I'm human. And it's like, it caught me off guard to be very honest with you. And then we follow up with the Rick Flair stuff, which I've heard, we've dealt with, we've discussed. I've been answering questions about it for years.

But for whatever reason, maybe it was just because I was coming off the holy shit, comments, I shouldn't say. It was his opinion. It was welcome to it. But, yeah, when you hit me with the Rick Flair thing about him getting me the job as executive producer and all that stuff, it just, I overreacted once again. Rick Flair has his reasons for thinking what Rick Flair thinks. And some of it I understand.

I disagree with it, but I understand it. But I've got nothing but respect for Rick. and I still have a lot of affection for Rick, but for whatever reason, that piece of history, which is very, very, it's a sore spot with Rick and he gets emotional. And I guess I do too. And I felt bad about that. But other than that, it was a great show. Well, I had a fun time, uh, talking about your journey because there's so many similarities about you know, the way things were and the way things maybe are now. And, uh, what's that old phrase about those who don't learn from history yeah you know the rest so listen man we're going to watch something

that i think is a pretty historic nitro of course it happened i can't believe this is real about 25 years ago this is uh october 2nd is uh when you're listening to this and way back when this was in september 28th so just a few days ago would have been the 25th anniversary of this does it feel like 1998 was 25 years ago it doesn't to me. No, and it's like every time, you know, we make these references and we date or put, you know, something into context as it relates to when it happened. And I'm starting to hear these, you know, 25 years ago. Well, you know, I'm getting to the point now I want to talk to you, you know, when we're offline about making some rules for our shows going forward. One of which

is we're never going to bring up the brick flare comments about getting me the job as executive producer and the other might be let's just not put dates on things anymore because it just makes me feel older than I already am it's like a quarter of a century ago this happened oh my god really seems like about a month ago to me but yeah it's 25 years ago man it's crazy how time flies you know and I know people online have had a lot of fun with me talking about time and my obsession with time but it's crazy to think that 19 73 is as close to 1998 as we are now in 2023 to 1998 like that feels like that can't be right yeah that just adds insult to injury because I graduated from high school in

1973 so it's just you know it's like a a mind fuck orgy every time I do one of these things my goodness well listen let's let's roll that beautiful bean footage we're going to be watching a very special nitro from September 28th 1998 fire up your peacock it's season four episode 39 so when you go to peacock go to season four of nitro episode 39 and eric i don't know that you realize this now but i can't believe this is real we at this point have had more episodes of 83 weeks than there have been episodes of nitro nitro had 288 episodes we are officially on episode 290 eric wow how about that well i'm having more fun doing this

all right folks let's do it get peacock ready season four episode 39 we're watching nitro together from september 28th 1998 here we go in three two one play Hogan, everything that you revere is now, from this moment forth, Britain, your entire world is going to turn completely upside down. I let loose the OWN Revolution, the one warrior nation. And you, Hogan, will be destroyed. Where's a disciple? There's one miss it. There's one missing.

Water! Once again, from nowhere. The lawyer still stays one step ahead of Hogan. And they can't figure it out. I challenge you, Warrior, to step in the ring with Hollywood. As for your challenge, Hogan and Halloween Havocan, Halloween Havoc, I accept. The biggest rematch in the history of the national wrestling.

And ladies and gentlemen, as we head to a Halloween Havoc on the 25th of October, we welcome you to upstate New York to the... All right, so we'll cut the audio. I love the open of Nitro, just that theme song, the pyro, the way the camera flies in. Eric, I would rather the show start with that than that video package. What say you? Yeah, as we've talked about recently, show opens. I tended to like to mix them up just a little bit. You know, this was a big match.

We anticipated this to be a successful pairing, obviously, or we wouldn't have done it. And I really wanted to drive it home. I wanted that to be the focus. And I was telling the audience what to pay attention to. And actually, the setup and the way that package was edited, it really, really wasn't that bad. And looking at this, as I've often said here, I go back and I watch these things with you, and it's like, this is the first time I've seen it. I didn't go back and watch the show once it was over.

I mean, this is the first time I've seen it. And I do like the idea, the conceit of OWN against the NWO, the One Warrior Nation, was kind of a cool little gimmick. and it, at least on the surface, had a lot of potential. Listen, I really liked the, uh, the shot, like it was almost like the bat signal, if you will, of his logo. I mean, that was cool. And of course, the OWN is playing off of the NWO.

Was that, was that a Jim Hellwig idea or did somebody else come up with the O W? No, I really do think Jim, Jim came up with that idea. It was, you know, when I hired Jim, actually while we were negotiating before it was official, I had flown to Phoenix to meet with Jim for the very first time and it really enjoyed the meeting. He was a very, very different. He was very, very different, but I found him to be somewhat fascinating. But I got home from Phoenix at the time I lived in Atlanta and had a fax machine. Remember those? Had a fax machine in my home office.

And by the time I got home, there was like 60 or 80, pages of ideas and notes, all handwritten, by the way. And I went through it. And I thought, oh, my gosh, what am I getting myself into? But Jim was say whatever, people can say whatever they want to say about him. He was eccentric. He was a handful to manage in many respects. But he was a very creative guy.

And you may have heard me say in the past, I'd rather have a fast horse that needs to be slowed down, that'll never speed up. And Jim was a very, very, very fast horse when it came to creative. A lot of it was just outlandish and not usable, but there were there were nuggets of some pretty good stuff in there. And I think this was one of them. We've covered fall brawl 98 in the archives and also the epic nitro two weeks prior to this where Rick Flair came back to WCW after all the lawsuits and the legal battles. And that Flair episode was the end of a three week win streak where nitro would defeat raw and it's the last time nitro would win

consecutive weeks in the war that's pretty crazy to think about that that was it in 1998 a taped raw will then defeat nitro the following week um i know you've always really believed that that live live live is important do you think that's changed over time i mean does it matter did it matter as much in 98 does it matter more now being live versus taped Well, I think it definitely matters more now. I think it's always mattered, but clearly just look at the values of WWE content because it's live. It's not sports, but it's as close to sports as you're going to get on television because sports are generally live. And so is professional wrestling.

And I think that move to the live format consistently, weekly, because WWE had done raw. They'd have one live show, one tape show, one. one live show, one tape show. So it wasn't like we were the first, Nitro was the first, you know, live show. We were just the first live show 52 weeks a year. Right. Changing that paradigm and making that standard operating procedure

is one of the reasons why the values for AEW and the values for WWE today are what they are. Had it not been for Nitro going live every week and then WWE in order to compete going live every week until it became the standard. That's what you do if you do professional wrestling and you want to be successful at it is one of the reasons why professional wrestling content today is worth what it's worth. But even back then, 25 years ago, a quarter of a century ago, live still had an urgency to it that a tape show just didn't have.

And it's hard to explain. I think some of it is subconscious in the minds of the viewer. They're there. They're watching as it's really happening. It's not that the show is necessarily any better creatively or in terms of the talent performance. But the connection that you're making to the audience, however conscious or subconscious, that may be when it's live, matters. And I believed it back in 95 when we launched Nitro, which is why I wanted to.

to do it live every week, even though it was more expensive, it was a bigger investment to go live every week. It would have been cheaper to do what WWE was doing and go live tape or even just tape the shows. But I wanted it to have that energy, conscious or otherwise subconscious, of being a live show. It reinforced the message I was trying to send to the audience, which was you have to be there. You don't want to watch it after the fact you want to be a part. part of the event as it's happening. And it clearly worked. We got Hulk Hogan in the middle of the ring with you being a stick man.

Let's track Hogan here for a minute or so. I took your stars. All the ones that you like to say are the good guys all the way from the top. And I made them think they were great. I made them think that they had a chance in the ring against Hollywood. because Hollywood is all about the almighty dollar. And now that I've got everybody right where I want them, I just want to let all the stupid wrestling fans

know that you were just as gullible as all those dumb wrestlers in the back that I'm going to start plucking off one at a time. Number one, Hollywood is on a mission And in Halloween havoc When I take that goof with a pain on his face When I take the warrior And I prove to him

That the running and the hiding from Hollywood Only delayed the pain and the torture That will be the first major move to put the NWO title back on Hollywood's waist. But simply because Hollywood is on a mission, I went down to the hood. And when I went to the hood, all the brothers and the sisters said,

Hollywood, why don't you take back over? Why don't you slaughter the lambs that you've had to slaughter? And as I said, brothers, you're right. They said, would, do it for us. They said, would, take them out one at a time. And the two biggest cry babies in the WCW, that no good sting and that no good breadth of hitman heart. I got Woods War bottled on tonight,

and I challenge both of them. If they both want a piece of wood, I'll take them right in the center of the ring and rip them apart, both of them. How about that challenge? How about that? But no matter which way it goes, starting tonight, I'm taking my business back.

The black and white NWO is taken over once again. And I don't care if it's sting. I don't care if it's Brett the hitman Hart. They're going to be the first victims of the Woods regime, brother, because the black and white is taking over starting tonight. And by the way, brothers, if you're real tight with the Woodmaster like the Nitro girls are, you can just go ahead and call me Woody because I'm just too sweet. All right, Eric, there's a lot to talk about there.

I'll say, uh, he the, the, the, the wood, uh, we're tight with the wood and, uh, you can call me Woody and the nitro girls know. And we went down to the hood and they said wood like, what? Uh, this is interesting. And we're trying new things. And as you heard, Hogan just laid out the challenge to both Brett and sting. And it's, written in the observer that the loss in the ratings from the prior week actually wasn't even written in the observer by the way this is the actual nitro open so we get the street scene now several minutes into the program but in the nitro book it's written that the reaction to the rating the week before september 21st is the reason you guys booked this main event uh as a reminder

the composite rating the week before was nitro did a 3.9 and monday night raw did a 4.0 The next week, which is where we are now, Nitro is going to be up to a 4.0. So it's up just a little bit, but boy, raw just crushes it. It does a 4.7. And that's with you guys, quote unquote, hot shotting the match. Now, I say that term hot shotting, not necessarily that it's even fair. We're going to talk about that. But a lot of people thought, man, Brett versus Hogan, that's a pay-per-view match.

Now, we established last week, even when you first got your big job as executive producer for WCW, that this is a television company, not a wrestling company. So when people are critical of you putting Goldberg and Hogan in July at the Georgia Dome on Nitro, they should remember that fact. I'm sure the same logic applies here, but is that the way you remember it, that this wasn't the long-term plan to have Brett and Hogan here? It's more of a reaction from the prior week, or was that just comment? in place in this era. We see what the rating is, and then we call an audible if necessary.

No, we, we didn't react to ratings on a week to week basis, particularly when we were winning every week, you know, which we have been doing, as you pointed out up until this point, really. But this was, I think, our way, my way of regaining some ground. I didn't like the idea of losing ground. You know, it took me a long time to take over the wrestling television island and and feel like we're in control of it. And then to all of a sudden have WWE end up on our shores and starting to take back some of that island, I did not like that at all. So this was, although typically to answer your question more clearly, typically we did not react and we did have a plan and we did execute that plan, not that it didn't change along the way

as often it does and still does to this day. But this was clear. clearly a reaction. This was trying to regain ground, but it was atypical, not typical. We've got Super Calo wrestling La Parca in the ring right now. They're going to go five minutes and 32 seconds. Meltzer would say it's a return for both men. That's going to be a corkscrew moon salt block that gets the win for La Parca here. Meltzer would say real good match and fans were into it. Callow hit Parker with a chair a few times after the match and pounded on the mat near parka with the chair very hard a few times after that it seems like um la parca at times was was probably one of the more popular luchador's in wcw how much of that is the costume how

much of that is the style and how much of that is just the chair do you think i well i think it's a combination of all the above as it usually is it's the ingredients that ultimately make you know the greatest dish and you know you look at laparca and the other thing i like liked about La Parker is he he knew how to go out there and have fun and when to have fun yes he was I don't want to say a comedic character but he had a great sense of comedic timing and but he could back it up with physicality and performance and I think it was the combination of all the above and the in the the costuming was extremely unique even by you know lucidore standards um but it was a combination. It was a great performer with a great sense of comedic timing and a gimmick that

everybody will remember. It was really one of my favorites. I mean, look, Ray Mysterio was in a class by himself the minute he walked through the door at WCW and continues to be. But LaParca in many respects was one of my favorite luchadors, which sounds weird coming from a guy that hates gimmicks and gimmick matches, right? Well, but I mean, listen, fun is what, you know, the show needs at different times and the parka was always that and the fans here know it it's a sellout there's 10,523 fans here in the building at the blue cross arena in rochester new york 9,814 of them paid 247,660 if you're just listening along and you're not watching it wasn't just bischoff holding the mic for hogan as he's talking about his wood uh it was actually uh brian adams

and scott hall in the black and white with him as well and it is interesting to think about how quickly momentum is a funny thing and we've talked about that a lot here on the program because it's not only a funny thing it is a very real thing uh i say all that to say six months after we've got this sellout crowd here of 10,523 folks just six months after this on March 7th in 1999 you guys draw 6,266 fans so you guys draw 6,26 fans so you you're down like 40% in the same market just six months later you know when you're hot you're hot and when you're not you're not and we've seen some of that in the modern product like wb not too long ago was struggling to sell tickets and it felt like you know if they ran a house

show they might get 2,500 or 3,000 now they're setting records every time they go out in every market it feels like it's a new record and conversely once upon a time where the AEW product was selling tickets left and right. I mean, that was commonplace. They put tickets on sale in Chicago and 10 minutes later they're gone. That momentum is not there. So momentum is a real thing in business. And we're seeing it here play out in WCW where you're talking about, hey, I don't want to lose ground. And I think a lot of people when they hear that, they think about a ratings point. But there's more to it than that. It's the overall momentum, including ticket sales and merchandise and pay-per-view.

It's not just one metric. It's all of them when you're talking about losing. No, and television is a good indicator. It's one indicator. Yes. It's the most immediate indicator. It's the most analyzed and measured meter that's available to us as wrestling fans or even in business.

But, you know, you mentioned AEW. You know, it wasn't long ago. And Arthur Ash, you know, you can go back and find my tweets when it was announced that they were going to Arthur Ash and it sold out. in the first 20 minutes, 20,000 tickets. I was like on the bandwagon and I was cheering and clapping and very excited and congratulated Tony Kahn and everybody at AEW for that achievement. And then it wasn't long until it was down to 50% of that.

I think this most recent outing at Arthur Ash was right around 11,000. That's kind of the same type of drop that we were experiencing here. And it's an indicator that you've lost, you've just lost the audience's energy. They came, they went, and in our case, they came, they saw for a couple years, and then all of a sudden we're not satisfying that need. And they were finding something they enjoyed better over in WWE. And when those indicators start to drop, it doesn't happen overnight. It happens very slowly.

And sometimes because it happens slowly, you can write it off to, competition on television. You can write it off to the season, the time of year, what's going on in the NFL or basketball, whatever. There's always a reason that you can justify at least temporarily in your mind. But when you're losing 50% of your audience in an arena, that's the audience telling you something. And the audience was speaking very loud and very clear with us here. Well, we want to speak very loud and very clear right now that, But Eric and I absolutely love our Henson Razors. If you haven't already checked it out, we want you to meet Henson shaving.

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regrets it it's ensign shaving.com slash 83 weeks use the promo code 83 weeks this is a fantastic product i hope you can hear it my voice let's get back to the program we're watching nitro from september 28th 1998 we just watched a pretty fun luchador match and i think we're going to hear from Brad Hart soon. Here we go. Let's get girl in again in three, two, one, play. All right, coast to coast here on TNT, Upstate New York, fall colors. And what a super Monday night on TNT. Please join me as I welcome my guest, my first guest tonight. You know I'm well here in upstate New York as he is known around the world. Brett, the hitman, Hart. Hart gets a great

ovation for the fans, and I know many things on his mind, including foremost, Hollywood Hogan's challenge. Exactly, Tony. This man, of course, has spent a lot of time in this particular building, beautifully renovated now tonight. Earlier, comments from Eric Bischoff

and Hollywood Hogan, a man that you never got a title shot at in eight years. Now, all of a sudden, they're calling you out when they know your situation. Oh, yeah, I got a bad knee, but, you know, that's nothing worry about because this is something that I have waited a lifetime for look sting and me have agreed backstage he's going to let me have first shot because Hogan I have waited forever you are

leading me down the wrong path all the guys that tried to get me from behind it doesn't matter because I'm going to have people back here they're going to watch my back and you and me are going to be alone to settle something that has been building and building and building for years. You ducked from me, you hit from me, you misled me, and it's time for you to settle it with the excellence of execution. The best there is, the best there was, and the best there ever will be. And Hollywood Hogan, when you step in the ring with me, I know that all these people here you talk about heroes and zeros

you will be a zero and all I want is one more chance to be a hero for these people I can be just as great as Rick Flair I can be as great as Sting I can be a true hero all I want is one chance

and Hogan I'm going to kick the living crap out of you for everybody in this building and all the buildings around the world you will pay all right thanks so there we go that's how we make the match it's official a couple things i want to point out there's a lot of uh backstory here we should unpack but i love the idea that we're doing this in new york obviously that was holkogen's territory long before it was brett heart's territory it is the backyard of w e to be in upstate new york um but one of the things that stood out to me is when he comes out, there's no music. And I know that we haven't spent a lot of

time talking about that, but Brett had such recognizable and iconic WWE music. I just don't feel that way about his WCW theme. And here we didn't even hear it. Why do you, I mean, do you think that how big of a deal is music to presentation? I mean, how important is that to a character? like it was a whole vibe for Hollywood Hogan and the NWO and Goldberg and so many others but with Brett it's kind of eh here in WCW and there we didn't even play it huge miss huge miss on on my part you ask the question how important is it it's critical it sets the tone I mean how many great movies can you recall that didn't have an identifiable soundtrack with it.

You know, to this day, every time I hear, you know, danger zone, I'm thinking back to Top Gun, the first one. You know, there's so, it's such an important part of a character. And I mean, I'm struggling to try to remember why we didn't have it. It's not like it was intentional. At that point, you know, I was still very hopeful for our relationship with Brad and wanted this thing to work out and it was excited about it. So it wasn't like, I'm just not going to give him any music because he's a dick.

It wasn't that. But it was clearly a miss. There's just no question about it. It changes things. There's nobody that's a major star in the sport today that doesn't have identifiable music. It's, uh, it's a shame. It's a damn shame. Um, this, this match itself has been a long time.

the making. There's been so much talk about Brett Hart and Hulk Hogan and really Dave Meltzer even gives a lot of credit to Tony Chivani and the announcers for building up how special and how important this match is. Meltzer would say Hart came out to a mixed reaction and accepted Hogan's challenge and the rest of the show. Tony Chivani and Mike Teney did a great job of building up the significance of this being the first two the first time these two had ever met. I think Tony sometimes got a bad rap back then. I'm glad he's getting a resurgence these days and people are appreciating him and his talents. And I'm really glad that Mike Teney is peeking his head back into the fray just a little bit to go into the Impact Hall of Fame.

He's going to accept the award on behalf of himself and Don West. You know, I know that Mike has decided, hey, wrestling maybe belongs in my rearview mirror. But how cool is that for Mike and for Don to go into the Impact Hall of Fame? I mean, really were the voice of that company for so long they were indeed and i you know i think the world of mike today i think he was such an important part of a critical growth period in in nitro wcw as a whole mike today brought credibility he was such a great color commentator primary you know it became very noticeable when it came to the luchadors because mike knew backstory in background, in detail, in the information that literally added color to the picture

that we were presenting with the Lucidores in the Cruiserweight Division on Nitro. I don't think that the Cruiserweight Division would have had the success that it did or had the impact that it did in Nitro. And therefore, and subsequently, in the industry today, had it not been for the credibility in the interest that Mike today was able to bring to it because of his vast knowledge and recall and ability to weave it into the action and the story that we were presenting. It was an art, and there wasn't anybody else that could do it.

There was no one else that could do what Mike today did. So nothing but respect for Mike. Like I said, it was such a critical part of WCW Nitro and the evolution of it. And glad to see that he's going out there and taking a bow once again. particularly you know receiving it his word along with and for down west because i know those two were tight i can't wait to talk more about this hogan brett hart thing but before i do i want to remind people if you're just listening and you're not watching along with us as we're seeing the talking heads at the announced position we just saw the cycle the former brutus the freaking

barber beefcake beaked sick boy in a minute and 58 seconds and what's he using as a finisher well it's a stunner. And Meltzer would say the show started falling apart here. Fans booed the hell out of the cycle even though he's supposed to be with Warrior. Actually, maybe because of that and partially because he's the cycle. And then the match started and they went to sleep. He no sold everything poorly. Meltzer was always brutal about Ed Leslie here in WCW. And I have to admit, I was a huge Brutus the Barber Beefcake fan as a kid over in the WWF. But it felt like nothing he ever did here in WCW really hit. And you've talked about how when you hired Hogan, that came with, well, another cast of

characters. You had some tag alongs. I know he was one of them, but was there a scenario where you guys could have captured lightning in a bottle for him the way, I mean, the British character over in the WWF was an act. I mean, he was over. He was selling merch. He was selling posters.

People were, I mean, little kids were dressing up and doing the cutting. it just never hit in WCW. Was that a gimmick for a different time and place? Was he not able to be nimble and create another character? Did WCW creative just feel forced to come up with him or something to do rather than being excited

to come up with something? Why didn't it work? I mean, nothing worked. I think it, you know, Bruce the Barber beefcake in WWE, then WWF worked because that product was produced at Target

to teens and pretees. All of the characters were very animated. They were human cartoons. And Brutus the Barber Beefcake, the character at Leslie, the performer, was probably almost perfect for that era and that character being targeted towards that audience. Now we're in a different era in terms of television. Nitro had decidedly made the move to an 18 to 39, 18 to 49 year old demo.

That was the underserved audience that I recognized before the day we launched the first Nitro and recognized it in order to be different than the WWE at the time. I had to present the product differently and I chose to present it and target the 18 to 49 year old demo with a more reality-based, more believable, less cartoonish. Not 100% across the board, so all you keyboard geeks out there, they're going to go, yeah, but what about the dungeon of doom? Again, not across the board. There were still some very animated characters for that segment of the audience that liked it.

But now you've got Ed Leslie portraying a character within the context of the NWO and the more reality-based presentation that we were assigning to that, and he didn't have it. Ed Leslie, as a performer, was a very, very weak performer. He was great at being the barber, but he didn't have the talent or the instinct to adapt and to embrace a character that would appeal to that 18 to 49-year-old demo. It was classic square peg round hole, and it didn't work, and we were forced. what he's Bruce that he was the booty man and then he was the disciple and then he was whatever else the hell he was all of that was a reflection of the fact that we couldn't find

anything to make this guy work but he was part of the package and we had to give him some TV time and and put him in a position where he could do the least amount of damage to the product as possible that's horrible to have to say that but it's true we we see the uh the nitro girls doing their thing and next up our next match is going to be something that i don't think you maybe even knew happened maybe it was discussed once upon a time but i think we're going to have scott stiner come out and do his thing and it's going to be what i believe to be a handicapped match and the two opponents for scott as i understand it here are going to be lennie lane and I'm going to let you see if you can figure out who his opponent is.

And we're seeing God, I love Buff Bagwell. What a hateable character this was, the airbrushed white overalls here. I mean, is Buff the most annoying slash best hype man? He is like the wrestling's version of flavor, Flav in this era. Was he not? That's awesome. That is awesome.

And Scott, he's looking unbelievable. here. I mean, guy was looking awesome. But yeah, you're right. Bagwell was he had the most punchable face in the in the business back then. And he had the character to go along with it, which made it work. And that's money, man. You know,

I mean, there's money and being hated. And I think sometimes that's what wrestling is missing today is the bad guy. It is life, brother. Heat is life. You can't have a baby face if you don't have a heel with heat. Come on. Simple. It's math. I actually bought one of those Buff Bagwell hats and flipped it back in 2013. He was unloading one of these at the NWA Legends fan fest.

And I was like, dude, somebody's one of my collector buddies, they're going to flip to have that on their shelf. And they did like a week later, 2X. So, hey, in the ring, we got Lenny Lane with another fellow. Let's see if you can recognize who it is, Eric. I'm not going to tell you. I'm going to let you guess. It's going to be tough for you.

Let's listen to Scott Steiner as you try to figure it out. When I step in the ring that all men are not created equal. And if there's a professional athlete that looks as great as I do, I'd like to see him. Because he don't exist. Look at the back. Let's take it. Boy, the trapezes, the lats, in the back, he's just so powerful. So what do you think, Eric?

Do you recognize who that is? Absolutely not. You're not going to believe it. Are you ready? That's Eugene. That's Nick Denny. Get out of here. really yeah he was on nitro how about that i knew you wouldn't remember that wow look at him

that's a young eugene right there man i can barely even now that you've told me i can't really see it well i mean that character was so different than what we're seeing here but that's the real life nick dinsmore teaming up with lindy lane uh scott of course is going to take approximately zero bumps and just throw these guys all around and beat them both with a double camel clutch you heard me right a double camel clutch i think wrestling needs more of this i think uh there's a lot of uh stress and emphasis sometimes to make sure that everything on tv is a good match but in reality a little squash action never hurt nobody this is how you get guys over you're still got to build characters yes i mean look there was a point in time and it's one of the big criticisms that i got

early on with Nitro is I'm giving away pay-per-view quality matches on free TV. I heard that a lot. Yeah. And now it's kind of commonplace, right? We see it often now. But when Nitro first started and I was putting those big names on television

and putting pay-per-view quality matchups on television, you know, the peripheral wrestling industry that Dave Meltzers of the world all, you know, prescribed nothing but doom and gloom as a result. and we all know what really happened. But you still need, I think to this day, occasionally those squash matches to just, if not get somebody over to keep them over and just maintain their position.

Yes. And just clean up that character from time to time. It's, uh, it's necessary, I think. I mean, if you take a look at, you know, these, let's just hit the reset button on Goldberg. he's going to debut tomorrow it's not september of 97 anymore he's debuting tomorrow and he's going to go out and try to have a great 50 50 match in his first match on tv the goldberg character never gets off the ground no it never happens and and i think it's important to remember like when people talk about box office the people who are box office are the people who are dominant

like you look at mike tyson in this era you know since the 80s at this point we've got 10 years of Mike Tyson being a huge box office attraction and it's because he's just mowing through people much like we're seeing Steiner here look at this not one but two a double camel clutch yes it's silly yes it's a gimmick yes it's awesome I love me some scott signer what a great segment that was it was a great segment by the way shout out to me and Patrick who we're seeing here as a ref I had an opportunity to go down to Atlanta and work with nick and his team over at Deep South Wrestling, and I had an absolutely wonderful time.

I learned more about smoking a brisket that I ever thought possible, and I'm grateful for the knowledge that I received while I was down there. But Nick is a great guy. He's doing a great job, coaching and working with a great group of young talent. So shout out to Nick.

Thanks for the invite, Nick. I had a great time. We should remind everybody that we're watching this night trail because the main event is Hulk Hogan and Brett Hart. And we've all talked ad nauseum about, man, this is the first time they've wrestled and they've never wrestled before. Well, that's not exactly true. It turns out if you roll over to a cage match,

you see that they've been in the same ring on at least 20 different occasions, including way back in 1984, Eric, over in Japan. Brett Hart and Hulk Hogan were tag team partners in Japan against, guys like anoki and fujanami that's real and then when the mega powers got up and going and they were hotter than ever in 1988 Hulk Hogan and Randy Savage they would wrestle the heart foundation and the hockey talk man and a handicap match of course they'd share the ring and a couple of royal rumbles but after 1991 they wouldn't touch until 1998 and that's what we're going to talk about today but before we do we should remind you that not everybody can look like Scott

Steiner, but maybe we can do a little better. And with the fall season getting busy and already in full swing, you might be looking for wholesome, convenient meals for jam-packed days. Got to pick those kids up from school, got to get them to ball practice. Well, hey, let's lean on factor. America's number one ready-to-eat meal kit. They can help you fuel up fast for breakfast, lunch, and dinner with chef-prepared, dietitian-approved, ready-to-eat meals delivered straight to your door. You'll save time. You'll eat well, and you'll stay on track with your healthy lifestyle. Maybe you're too busy to cook. Well, man, with Factor, you get to skip the trip to the grocery store, you get to skip the chopping, you get to skip the

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off. That's code 83 weeks 50 at factor meals.com slash 83 weeks 50 to get 50% off. All right, Eric, let's get back to the program. We're watching a very special Monday Nitro from September 28th, 1998. They went to a commercial break. because Scott Steiner hurt his back. Wink, wink, wink. This is an ongoing angle on Nitro that he can't have the big

competition matches. He just needs a little workout routine. So he's dodging big matches by feigning an injury. So it's a pretty nice little storyline. Let's pick it up where we left off. And I think we've got the warrior coming out. So I know you're excited about that, Eric. Let's get go.

Let's strap ourselves in. In three, two, one, play. Off and running, ladies and gentlemen, with the beginning of the second hour. We told you about the two top contender cruiserweight bouts we have coming up. I bet Jericho's challenge to Goldberg to go one-on-one here tonight. But in the face of it all, the one match that loops bigger than anything else is the fact that Fred Hart and Hollywood Hogan will wrestle here tonight live on this program. It's Monday Nightro.

to expect matches such as these very very dark tone to set here now over the arena scope and locked for destruction take the sergeant out Oh, my. Look at this. Look! In the entryway! He has arrived again. We've come to expect the unexpected from the warrior,

and there's the man that has turned Hollywood Hogan's world upside down. all right so we can cut the audio for a minute big presentation big theme music big like show big pyro big excitement from tony and mike teney they're doing what they can uh melzer would say warrior showed up without the steam as i hope they've learned from the other cities and tv ratings that nerve gas kills ratings unfortunately as this reaction shows it wasn't the nerve gas it's warrior himself he got teared coming out but ultimately was being booed out of the place with loud warrior sucks chance a fan hit the ring in the middle of this interview and again he forgot what he was supposed to say just an awful segment it isn't as if everyone didn't warn bischoff

about warrior going to have a very short life like two or three weeks of being effective because he isn't adapting to 1998 wrestling which is a totally different world than 1992 and the wrestling world isn't going to change to adapt to him the only thing left for him to do besides kill the ratings and buy rates after Havoc, which still may do well just because of the matchup after more than eight years, is for Goldberg to spear him and chalk it up to experience. I can't tell you how many people within WCW were predicting that by five weeks in, the fans would be begging for Goldberg to spear him, and here we are. He would also write, it's no secret within the company that Warrior is dying and the realization that unless something is done quickly, he's taking

Hogan down with him. They may do a good buy rate for the next pay-per-view, Halloween Havoc, although it's going down and not escalating with every bit of hype they added to the mix. You know, I know we, you have a lot of fun being critical of Meltzer's reporting and his opinions at times, but it is hard to argue that, man, instead of this building anticipation for the match, it feels like every segment he's in, it actually whittles it down, right? It does. And, you know, Dave had the same commentary about Randy Savage about Hulk Hogan when I brought Hulk Hogan, you know, in Dave's opinion, those people all washed up were never going to amount

to anything. It was a bad investment. It was a bad choice on Eric Bischoff-Spark to bring those guys in. Clearly, he was wrong then. So the fact that Dave Meltzer felt that way, or others like Dave Meltzer may have felt that way. If I would have listened to those morons early on, Nitro would have never happened. Hogan would have never come in. The NWO would have never happened. A lot of things would have never happened. If anybody would have taken the guidance, particularly me, of people like Dave Meltzer. That being said, he wasn't always wrong. And I think with Warrior, it was a, let's give it a try and see what happens.

My expectations weren't nearly as high as people may have thought they were. It really was, it was an expensive experiment, but my expectations were very well managed. When I had the opportunity to bring Randy in, I had very high expectations. Randy over-delivered. And I brought Hulk Hogan in. I had very high expectations. Hulk Hogan way over-delivered. That was the case in a lot of those situations,

bringing somebody over who was supposedly washed up in WWE at the time. But Warrior was the exception to that. He just, I mean, it's right here. You know, I could kick myself in the ass all afternoon, just looking at the amount of my time that I gave this. this guy because it was very clear, particularly after his first outing, this was not his strong suit. And I was thinking about that when he made his entrance and listening to the crowd.

You know, if there's ever been a personification of less is more, it's warrior at this time. I agree. Had he not had that, Mike, had he, if he would have been more of a mystery type of a character that very rarely spoke and when he did. It actually mattered because it happened so infrequently. I think things might have turned out differently. But he was, he meaning warrior, was so stuck in trying to recreate that WWE phenomenon that they was right in this case. He couldn't adapt.

He didn't have much like Bruce the Barber Beefcake couldn't adapt and couldn't evolve in an environment where he needed to. It's, uh, something you're trying. I mean, obviously we know that no bad idea in a brainstorming session. And once by the time, this was a big match that a lot of people wanted. And we know that Hogan had success with this in the past. So why not? I mean, we've done Hogan Savage here. It worked.

We did Hogan and the giant because unfortunately, Andre's not available. And it worked. Why not Hogan and the warrior? And Hogan Flair. Yeah. It's kind of, it's almost. a wrestling sin to compare Hogan Warrior to Hogan Flair, but in context, same thing.

You know, that's what kicked off Hulk Hogan's career in WCW was his match with Flair, in the storyline with Flair. Again, can't compare the two performers. Right. And he's stretched to the imagination, but it's going back to what either did work or what could have worked if people wanted to see in WWE that they got to see in WCW.

We've got me and Gina here doing a stick man job here with Buff Bagwell. Let's track it. Give me a second. I just had a bit Scotty in the ambulance. He's on the way to the hospital. Well, wait a minute. Stop right there. We don't know what to believe.

Is he really on the way to the hospital? Wait a second. Are you calling me a liar? Are you calling me a liar? Say the words. Are you calling me a... Shut your mouth! I'm asking you a question

or you call him both daddy a liar I'm not calling you anything I'm asking the questions here you're not asking them this simple gene you know how hard Scotty Steiner works just look at his body

he's a dedicated man he wanted to resolve this match at Halloween what's hell oh yeah that's what you think of this are you laughing at me now I'm not laughing I'm not lying

that noise I don't have a clue what it is. I don't know where it's coming from. All I know is, Scotty Steiner wanted to work this thing out. The holidays are coming up. Everybody knows he's got three ruptured discs in his lower back. Gene, he may have four or five. He may have six now.

I don't know. I just know he wanted to work this thing out, Gene. Is he going to be ready to meet his brother, Rick Steiner, at Halloween Havoc in the return that has been ordered by J.J. Dillon? Gene, does it look like the words doctor or across my forehead? Do you see the words doctor anywhere? I don't know. Don't jerk me around out here, Bagel.

Hello, I'm not a doctor. All I can tell you is Scott Steiner's hurt and havoc may not happen. So just suck it up, Rick Steiner, because the holidays may be miserable. Thank you very much. So do you remember what the laugh was, Eric? Was that Chuckie? It was Chuckie. They're getting ready to promote bride of Chuckie a couple weeks from now.

We're going to have the doll do a promo battle with Rick Steiner. yeah during buff bagwell we just pipe in uh the chucky laugh which still it's a little tease i like it yeah i think that was some of buff's best character work no doubt i mean that was really really well done this is such a fun time for wcw and i know that uh people get tired of me saying how much i love this era but we're about to watch psychosis wrestle ernest miller how great is that like that's fun that's It is a hoot. And that, you know, it goes back to, you know, I don't know who came up with it.

I didn't originate it. Maybe it was Dusty Rose. But for me, I've used the analogy, I guess, where wrestling, when it's done really well, it's a great buffet. You've got a little bit of everything. You know, you satisfy everybody that comes into the door. And that's what we're seeing here on Nitro. Even, even, you know, at the tail end of Nitro's dominance, you're still seeing, I think, a balanced presentation.

We, uh, we both love Ernest Miller and we're talking a lot about matches today. We started down this train of talking about Brett Hart and Holkogen. And I mentioned that they actually were tag team partners back in 84 over in Japan twice. Uh, once in a tag match that included Anoki on the other side. Once in a tag match that included Fujinami on the other side. Uh, and then of course, they had a lot of matches that were super, Stars tapings and maybe dark matches where they're in the main event in tag affairs. Of course, Brett was a part of the Heart Foundation, Hulk Hogan on the other side.

And then a couple of one superstars match that was actually here in Huntsville, Alabama, of all places. That's where the Megapowers would take on the Hart Foundation and the Honky Talk man. But after those Royal Rumbles where they shared the ring together in 90 and 91, never again until a dark match where we did Savage and Piper against Brett and Hogan and Rhode Island in May of 98 here on Nitro. And again, we had Brett and Hogan team up against DDP and Kevin Nash. That was at the Palace of Auburn Hills in June of 98. Also in June on Thunder, we would see Brett and Hogan team up against DDP and Kevin Nash. We saw that match at the Great American Bash on Paper View in Baltimore.

That was Savage and Piper against Brett and Hogan. And then we recently talked about, you know, the record, if you will. um, which was Lex Lugar and Sting taking on Brett and Hogan that did record business, uh, August 31st, the highest rated nitro in history. And then of course, we did the war games, which was an interesting one. It's three teams, nine guys, team WCW, team NWO and team Wolfpack, uh, team NWO Hollywood is Brett, Hogan and Steedy Ray of all people. And now we're watching this match.

the first singles match that ever happened and it's at the blue cross arena here in Rochester but that wouldn't be the last time they would hook it up believe it or not it would happen over and over and over again but usually non-televised house shows they would share the ring at a nitro in october two weeks after this one it would be sting teaming up with the warrior against brett hart and hogan that seems crazy but they actually did a series of house show matches Eric the Cow Palace out in San Francisco in August of 99 they would do it in Reno Nevada the very next day the following day they're at the forum in Englewood California and then of all places a few weeks later Pensacola Florida and then

Tallahassee Florida all of those matches every single one of them no contest finishes I find that interesting Hogan was the champ he didn't lose Brett didn't lose no contest it's a house show Eric why not do a clean finish on a house show there were issues obviously

between with Hogan and Brett in managing managing them both based on their own strongly held beliefs and perspectives was a challenge. It was a compromise. Every one of those, no contest finishes, was a compromise. They were both deeply embedded in their positions. And it was hard to get them off of it. It was one of the reasons why we never really had the ultimate match with them

that we wanted to have in the buildup is the chemistry between them. Now, they could be around each other. they could work together in the same ring as you outlined many many times but when it came to being in the main event for the title and it was just it was just tough chemistry so it's the only way I can say it really I don't mean to say it this way because it's going to sound like I'm trying to come off negative but I'm not trying to I'm just trying to understand like I've had conversations with Hulk Hogan in real life and he even talked about this on Joe Rogan's podcast where he would say I'm I went to Piper and I was like, brother, if you just want to let me pin you,

you know, I could have done it back and then you could have got the belt and we could have did the chase and we could have made some money. But I couldn't trust you to do it and you couldn't trust me to do it. And he clearly understood that, you know, some of these guys, quote unquote, didn't want to pin their shoulders to the mat. And that to me seems, I don't know, a little silly because he's doing it for Goldberg this same year. he's doing it he did it for piper a couple years prior to this at nitro i mean at starcade

he did it for sting what was it i mean i on the one hand i think people would say well he's not at my level because he's not as big as me but again no that that was i think it i think it it's hard to say i can't get into either of their heads to be honest i only know what I was told, and it's not that I believe necessarily everything that I was told, because I only heard one side of it. Well, actually, I heard both sides of it. But Brett had a very strong belief that Hogan screwed him in WW. Yes. Talked Vince out of an opportunity for Brett. And it's my opinion, could be wrong, but that feeling, that resentment, that distrust that Brett held for Hogan never went away. And the lack of respect, when it comes to business, when it came to

business, the lack of respect, trust that Hogan had for Brett was real. And again, you could get them to work together in the same ring. They could hang out. They could be together on the roster. There was no heat per se visible in terms of their ability to work together until unless it came time to make it actually mean something. And that lack of trust, resentment, call it what you will, from 1993 or whenever it happened or 92, I don't know.

I don't remember the dates, but that initial opportunity and the way it was explained to me from Hulk was that Vince McMahon made a lot of promises to Brett along the way, but had a different conversation with Hulk at the same time. So when it came time to resolve the issue because Brett was pushing that issue because of what he was told, as he should have, if indeed he was told by Vince McMahon that something was going to happen and kept putting it off and putting it off and putting it off and not fully committing to it, Brett called it out. They finally ended up in a room together with Vince, and Vince basically denied it. Yeah. And went with Hogan. I wasn't there. And I don't necessarily

believe 100% of what any one person tells me when there's two or more people involved. Because everybody hears things differently. They have a different perspective. Their emotions are at different levels. All of that affects what really happened. Yes. So it's impossible for me to take 100% of anybody's opinion about anything when there's more than one person involved, two people involved. But the way it was explained to me, it makes it easy for me to understand why Brett was as entrenched as Brett was when it came to Hogan and still carried around some of that distrust and resentment, it's also easy for me to understand from Hulk's point of view why he didn't really have a lot of respect for Brett in some

regards professionally. Hulk obviously recognized what we all did is that when it came to his work in the ring, Brett was second to maybe only Rick Flair. And even that's arguable. you know, depending on your perspective at the time. But when it came to doing business, which is a different, it's a wrestling way of saying trusting the guy you're in there with, that was the issue. There was a lack of trust. Well, a lack of trust is obviously critical in wrestling, but it is one of those things where I just can't help but wonder, what if?

I mean, it feels like sometimes for the greater good, we should just be able to put things aside. I mean, when we hear about problems today in modern wrestling, this guy doesn't want to work with that guy. It feels like everybody gets up in arms and takes sides and it's divisive. I don't know, dude. I mean, look at, look at what happened with CM Punk. Yeah. And the elite. And, and we don't even know how much of that is true because it was a lot of it was regurgitated, created, blown out of proportion, exploited by the day Meltzers of the world, right? unless you were there, you know, who knows?

CM Punk may be completely justified or you may have been an egomaniac that was overreacting and being a bully, so to speak. Nobody knows for sure, but what we do know for sure is the lack of trust and the resentment, much like existed with Hulk Hogan and Brett Hart, can and has still exist today. I mean, it's just, it is. That's the thing about wrestling, man. It's, it's a unique business, you know, maybe actors and actresses have the same types of situations because they have to expose themselves as characters in whatever movie

or television series are doing and they're vulnerable. They're out there performing and they have to have a certain amount of trust. You know, you're acting is nothing but reacting. It's one of the reasons Buff Bagwell's interview with, with Gene Oaklin went as well as it did. Because Buff had an idea what he was going to say, but he wasn't working off a script. No. He was reacting in a very natural, believable way to what Gene, who is an artist, nothing less than an artist at being that stick man.

It's easy to say, oh, he's a, he's a very, very important part of the equation. But Buff did a great job of reacting to Gene. Actors and actresses react to each other. Yes, they're working off of a script and they know where the direction of the story is going sometimes word for word, but you have to make it look believable like you're reacting to what you're hearing for the first time. That all takes trust. And clearly Tony Con couldn't bring those camps together in AEW, just like I couldn't bring Brett and Hogan together sufficiently to be able to really exploit the opportunity. Chemistry is a real thing, dude.

it's a it's a real thing you can have all of the talents in the world you can have you can have 99.99% of everything you need but if the one tenth of one percent that's lacking is trust you got nothing doesn't matter you got nothing hey let me ask you you know people would say in this era something they've said in more recent years about AEW all the inmates are running the asylum them how do you answer that when it comes to personality like hogan and brett i mean is that is that as as simple as it is oh the inmates are running the asylum there's i mean you don't share that it's simple for someone that's never worked in the industry to say that it's a simple observation for fans who read stupid shit in their sheets to say that because it's easy to repeat it's like

bumper sticker mentality and you know bumper sticker mentality works it works in politics it works in wrestling works in a lot of situations But egos, I mean, just step back from them. And by the way, before I go on here, I want to put over this match. Disco looks freaking awesome here. This is a great match. It's Disco and Chavo Guerrero. You know those guys can work, man.

Chavo is unbelievable here. It's the more serious side of Chavo, which I really, really enjoyed. Yes. But got to put disco over here as well. He takes a lot of heat, gets a lot of crap, mostly because he asked for it. Yes, he does. who he is and that's his character yes but you can't discount his ability back then either he looked awesome up there i was just talking about how serious chava was and he's riding a stick pony so whatever

but where was i going back to chemistry going back to oh it's just the inmates running asylum i don't care if you're a director on a movie set how many stories have we heard about actors and actresses on a movie set that just can't get along oh yeah years that ensue right going over budget delaying production, having to recast characters in the middle of a movie, those things are real because the people involved have different egos than the people that buy tickets to go watch them. They're driven differently than the average person. That's why they become stars.

It's why they pursue being a star. And their egos are different, not worse, not better, just different. and managing people that are performers that are driven to perform partly because of their egos are very difficult to manage and shit is going to happen it just does it happens and probably still does in wwe it certainly happened in wcw it happens currently in AEW and guess what it probably happens on movie sets and television sets all over the planet because performers are different and they have to be managed differently and sometimes they can't be managed we're watching a pretty fun match here with disco inferno and chavo guerrero i want to remind

everybody this show is happening in rochester new york and uh when you saw mean jean introduced brett hart he says oh we're in a building that um i think he uh bret the hitman heart is very familiar with. That's the phrase he used. Well, what he was referencing is Brett's been wrestling here in Rochester since 1985 with the WWF. He had matches against Renee Guley, Rick McGraw, Paul Roma. He actually wrestled with his tag team partner, Jim Knighthart against the team called the American Express. Yeah, you heard me right. The American Express. That was Danny Spivey and Mike Rotundo. But he also had some pretty interesting matches against teams like Pedro Morales and Tito Santana

and defending the tag team titles against Davy Boy Smith and the Junkyard Dog I know what you're thinking wait when did they tag well it's because he was standing in for the dynamite kid but oh yeah he wrestled the dynamite kid in singles action here back in 86 I'm not necessarily interested in running through all the matches that he had here but the point is he had a lot of great matches with a lot of great talent in the company including some pretty notable ones I want to

run through. He wrestled Sean Michaels here for the intercontinental title. He wrestled Mr. Perfect here for the intercontinental title. Lots of defenses for the tag titles when he and Jim were the tag champs. But he would also work with Jerry Lawler in 1993. And more importantly, Stone Cold Steve Austin at a paper view here in 1997. In your house, Revenge of the Taker. This is the fabulous Brett Hart is a heel in America, but a baby face around the rest of the world taking on you know the antagonist or the protagonist or depending on where you lived uh the anti hero i guess is the better phrase stone cold steve austin but this is also the same building where way back in 1986 and this became wrestling lore he had that 10 minute match with tom mcgee and that was

sort of the the lost tape that everybody was obsessed with for years and years and years it happened in this building and i'm sure that tom mcgee probably had a different trajectory and maybe the company felt like he had a different one. It just didn't work out. And sometimes in life, things don't work out. And that makes us want to talk about mental health. Mental health is an increasingly important and it's really something none of us like to talk about or address publicly. Let me ask you this. Are you feeling stuck or does your mind have you dressing sharp but feeling dull? Perhaps it's time to talk to a life coach. We'll meet fellow ad-free show supporter and wrestling fans, Steve, from a damn healthy dose of coaching.

Steve is a certified ADHD life coach and getting you unstuck is what he does, period. Working together, you'll come up with strategies and he'll provide you with the tools you need to set you on the way. To learn more, visit damn healthy dose.com. That's d-a-m-n-healthydose.com or email Steve. at damn healthy dose.com. That's Steve, S-T-E-E-V at damn-healthy dose.com,

for a free 30-minute consultation. Be sure to mention 83 weeks, and Steve will provide you with the first two sessions for free to see if life coaching is a fit for you. Don't wait. If you're feeling stuck, visit damn healthy dose.com.

How about this? a little four horseman promo remember now flair came back two weeks prior we're seeing some jCP clips some wcw clips this is a fun little package i don't remember seeing this before i'm sure i do ain't either it was done very well too i like the black and white touch seeing mongo here in benoit there's malinko the nature boy the power of four and that's a cool look that's pretty cool all right we are on the shank of another monday evening as promised ladies and gentlemen they are back together again at upstate New York across the country and around the world please welcome the four horsemen it truly is a magical moment anytime they're announced

by jean ochreland anytime they make their way to the ring the legacy of the horsemen what they've meant to this sport so we can cut the audio here you see mike teney and tony shivani doing their best to hype up the return to the horseman upstate new york of course jCP used to run uh new york as well and uh here's our group even though it's four it's like the original four except in the jj role it's aren't anderson of course mongo uh just recently announced as going into the NFL hall of fame kudos to him and uh dean malinko still doing his thing in a e w along with arn anderson the nature boy uh besides getting yelled at by you on every other 83 weeks. It has a new mushroom energy drink. What are the odds you try the new mushroom energy drink,

Eric? Oh, I'll try it. I know you would like the mushroom part. Hell yeah. I'll give that a shot. I've been known to love me some mushrooms, by the way. Don't, don't sleep on the mushrooms. I mean, Eric, Rick tells me that, man, you'll get all wired up on these. It is a real deal energy drink. And I've yet to try it. It's not yet made its way to, uh, to my market. But, uh, when I go visit pop pop I'll be sure to give you a report back and believe it or not I don't know if you remember this but you're about to make an appearance here and remind everybody about what just happened on Thunder where I guess Stevie Ray was on the bad side of a an Arne Anderson asswop and let's take a listen

Mead, whew, gee. Here we are. I believe we are in Rochester, Neo. I believe we've got trouble, too. Billinger don't look happy. It is before we are feeling alive, well, and looking, oh, so good. What is this? Just a second.

Eric Bischoff, Stevie Ray. We just... Welcome back, God. God. And in case you have a notice, I brought a few of the local law enforcement with me because you, my friend, committed felonious assault on this man

on Thursday. You know it, I know it, and the world knows it, so here's how it's going to go because none of these people want to hear another word from you. Trust me. I want local law enforcement

to step forward. I want you to take this man, this man, this man, this man, and this disgrace to the wrestling business. Oh, my. And I want you to escort them along with this man. Since you failed to do your job last week,

I brought a little help to make sure you got it done this week and get them the hell out of my building. And you can do that now. Thank you very much. Good night, gentlemen. This is my show. Remember? Well, unfortunately, this is all coming to stuff.

Can I, gentlemen, can you spell felonious assault? Let me help you on. It's like a knock on a head. You're done. What an asshole. Listen to the crowd agrees. The fans with their response, but wouldn't it take some, the police force?

from Norfolk, Virginia, to lock him up. Bye, Rick. Bye, Dean. Good to see you again. Hey, Mongo, see you next time. Hey, they're going to like you in prison. The horseman, Doug Dillinger, included. Did you ever think you'd see Doug Dillinger being led away

by a police. So here's what Metser says. He says, Bischoff, Flair said a few words and almost immediately Bischoff came out with a million officers and started screaming at Arn about felonious assault because of what he did on Thunder to Stevie Ray. The cops escorted not only the horseman,

but also Doug Dillinger out of the building. Chivani was hilarious later in the show when another fan hopped the guardrail and he said, that's what happens when you send Dilliger out of the building. And supposedly they went to jail. There are a lot of people in wrestling. who deserved to be arrested after their interviews, but Flair isn't one of them. Bischoff started ripping Flair about using his 10-year-old to hide behind as an excuse for not showing up.

Given how bad the show was, it would have been nice to hear Flair talk longer and Anderson talk a little, but it was a good angle. It is a good angle. I like the angle, but do you think in hindsight, I only bring this up because I recently covered a Monday Night Raw with J.R. and it was on the around the 20 year anniversary of a 2003 pay-per-view where there was a match set up between Goldberg and Triple H. And seemingly out of nowhere, for no real reason, we had Stone Cold come out and do a 20-minute interview. And Meltzer would say, hey, even if the interview didn't have a lot of substance and it didn't go anywhere, nobody's changing the channel when Stone Cole Steve Austin's in the ring holding a microphone. And I kind of feel that way about Flair here, like he had been such a hot property,

two weeks ago, you had that blistering moment where he comes back and you guys are fire me. I'm already fired shouting match. That was great TV. And here we cut his water off before we hear from him. I know that's quote unquote heat brother, but in hindsight, should you have let him talk a little bit? I mean, that would have been good for ratings, no? You know, I was thinking the exact same thing as I'm watching this because I, obviously I forgot about this.

I didn't know it was coming up. And I thought the overall, the scene was pretty good, you know, the angle, whatever you want to call it. It was really pretty good. It was effective. But if I were able to do it again, I would have let, I would have heard more from Rick, a little bit more, not a lot more. I would have wanted to hear from Arn because he was a subject. Yes. He was the reason. So to not hear from Arne was a mistake creatively. I think it would have been better for Rick to set Arn up and brag about it and kind of gloat. Let's hear Arn just a little bit from Arn

because that's who the audience is really good to want to hear from. Is Arne, he was the focus. He was the subject of the story and then interrupt. That would have been better for sure. But overall, it was pretty damn good. Especially what I said, do you know what felonious assault is? you got like a knock on the head that was just so heelish silly silly and fun and then you know by coincidence the audience just happened to start chanting asshole asshole right oh sure

coincidence that was great it was really kind of fun to watch but yeah I would have loved to hear more from Rick a little bit more not a lot more but definitely hear from Arn and then cut iron off that would have been better so we just saw if you're watching along with us one of my favorite moments in nitro my god it's chris jericho with his personal security ralphus and his jerichoholic ninja we got the full goldberg entrance from the backstage area now we're playing the goldberg theme song let's track it pro champ goberg talk about power talk about undefeated what's his number mike talk about 146 and oh

is that is that who is that may be the little man that that Jericho used at fall braw pretending to be I'm just ridiculous as this. All right. So we'll cut it.

What they had been promoting here was Goldberg versus Jericho. But as a reminder, Jericho has been campaigning as the cruiserweight champion or the TV champion, as it were, um, that he wants to wrestle Goldberg. And he has been this entire time championing and campaigning for a match with Goldberg. And it didn't happen. And he even promoted that it was going to happen at fall brawl at the pay per view. Instead, he brings out a little guy. much smaller than Goldberg dressed up just like Goldberg and it beats him up. Well, so now Jericho thinks he's going to do that again on Nitro, but instead the real Goldberg comes out with the

imposter over his shoulder. As soon as Jericho sees the real Goldberg is here, he just lays waist to a couple of the Jericho security guards. This is fantastic stuff. I love this era of Jericho. And I know it bled over and these guys did not get along in real life. As I'm understand it. This was all Jericho's idea. And he felt like he had some momentum with his character. I would agree. This is my favorite era of Jericho. And Goldberg allegedly just didn't think he was on his level and would not agree to a match that led to some harsh words and a backstage scuffle. What do you remember about the Bill Goldberg, Chris Jericho. Uh, what's the, what's the, what's the, what's the Yiddish words you say? Mishigosh or something like that.

I'm going to learn some things. Yeah. Yeah. So what, what? do you remember about that? It's all true. This, you know, Jericho, this was Jericho's idea. So much of what Jericho is doing during this period of time was really Jericho's idea. It was his creative from Ralphus and all of the things that Jericho did that we remember were Jericho's ideas. This was not really created for him, certainly not by me. And I doubt that Kevin Sullivan had a lot to do with it. That's not taking anything away from me or Kevin Sullivan, but Chris was really, really, he was emerging as a very, very creative guy with a good instinct, great instinct. It's also probably what led to Chris leaving WCW.

Yeah, I would agree. I think he wrote about that in his book. Yeah. So this, this creative story and Chris's input and pushing and what we saw there, which was highly freaking entertaining. But Bill just, for whatever reason, don't really know. I have a couple guesses, but Bill just wouldn't do it. And it's really unfortunate because I think Chris could have made Bill.

I think Chris could have given an added dimension to Bill. Again, we're going to go back to chemistry, right? Redhardt Hulk Hogan. CM Punk elite. Same thing. What could have been if everybody would have just, just check their egos at the door and thought about the opportunity itself and what the opportunity could do long term for everybody themselves and each other

and the company, the fans, could have been a freaking awesome. And who knows? Chris may have stuck around WCW. Better for him that he didn't, by the way. Truth be known. But this was the catalyst for Chris deciding to write me a goodbye letter and take his talents elsewhere. As hard as I tried to keep Chris, because I did, I offered him quite a bit to stay, but he was determined to go. And I think he was right. Chris made a wise decision, a great

career move. I, uh, I can't help but ask when you said, I got a couple ideas. What are the ideas you have about how Goldberg and Jericho got off on the wrong foot? Jericho doesn't take shit for anybody. He, He doesn't, I think, at his core, he's not, I don't think Chris wants to fight anybody or is a fighter by choice, but doesn't mean he's not good at it. And I think Bill disrespected Chris. I know he did. And Chris wasn't going to tolerate that. I think the reason Bill disrespected Chris, and this is going to come out so fucking.

and wrong. It's going to come out right the way I mean it, but it's going to be heard differently by different people, probably certainly by Bill himself, just add another guy to the list I used to work with that's pissed off at me. But I got to call it like I feel it. I think Bill was intimidated by Chris, not in a physical, not in a real fight. Yeah. necessarily. But I think Chris was so good and was so, and so much depth, not only as a performer, what he could do technically to rig. I mean,

he was really, really gifted at an early age. But I think Bill was intimidated by that. And Bill's way of dealing with being intimidated is to go into Bill Goldberg mode and shut it all down. That's what happened. It's just lack of respect and insecurity on Bill's part. And I say insecurity, I mean, as a performer, because let's face it, Bill was still really new at this point.

It's not like Bill had been in the business for five or six or eight years at this point, like Chris had. Bill was still learning every single minute from the minute he walked into the building to the minute he went home. He was in a learning mode. And he compensated for that because he was Bill and he was intimidating and he could be. But at his core, I think at this stage of his career, he was insecure with what he was aware of what he didn't know and what he wasn't capable of

and didn't want to compromise that because it might expose him. I don't sound like a shrink, but that's my honest feeling. Chris was a great guy, is a great guy to this day. And so is Bill. But that doesn't mean that there weren't insecurities at this point in Bill's career. And again, not because Bill had any doubted his physical ability or his ability as a man, but because he knew he was limited in the ring and he wanted to get and Chris wanted to have a match with him and a program with him which would have required that Bill adapt

his style and work differently in order to work with a guy like Chris and make it work and make it make sense and I don't think Bill was ready for that consciously or so maybe maybe it was subconsciously that's what I think happened let's listen to Scott Hall here is it less feeling This is drunk, Scott Hall. I think I need to repeat, and I'm going to continue as a part of World Championship wrestling, as a member of this broadcast crew, repeat the same statement that I think bears repeating over and over. We are saddened at his state.

We do not condone his actions nor his condition coming into the ring. We hope the man will get help very soon. On the other side of the coin, here's a man that needs no help. Amanda has become his own man, who's become quite a champion, I must say. Kidman makes him way to the ring. This should be a good matchup. The WCW reigning world's cruiserweight champion. So we'll cut it right there.

We're doing the, uh, the, the silly drunk Scott Hall storyline. You've talked about this before, but not everybody listens to every single episode. In hindsight, what do you think about that presentation? I'm very disappointed in myself. I just wish I could take that one back. Yeah. Don't know what else to say. It's really kind of disgusting, to be honest.

I didn't obviously feel that way at the time. I guess I was trying to figure things out and make the best I, what they say, make chicken salad out of chicken shit. But boy, did I fail miserably on that one. And I just, I feel, I just feel bad. We, uh, we should remind everybody that he's wrestling Billy Kidman, who is the cruiserweight champion as you heard Mike today lay out there. And this whole booking got some criticism.

They're going to do a six minutes and 13 second match here. And Scott Hall gets the win. And Meltzer would be critical of this decision to put Scott Hall against Billy Kidman. So let's just table the, uh, the drunk stuff for a minute. Meltzer says, they have a hundred. guys on the roster who don't mean crap that can put haul over, so they choose to cut the legs off another young guy who was getting over, not to mention made it basically non-competitive and pretty much destroyed, not only their cruiserweight champ, but the entire division by

the portrayal of this match. When a guy starts getting hot in the WWF, they keep pushing him until he starts cooling off, and if it means upsetting an established star, so be it. In WCW, when a guy starts getting hot, they immediately have an established star squash him unless the company he got the guy as hot as opposed to one of those guys who just catches on for no apparent reason unless as some people think this is all just a prelude of kiddman beating hall and they're doing the original one two three kid gimmick uh listen i understand what meltzer saying he's probably a little heavy handed we have seen some of this type booking in w we in more recent years it feels like there's a lot of momentum and the fans are with it and then we

cut him off that is how about how about dave melzer's book of the year tony con who's probably we made a habit out of doing that over the last couple of years. Well, thankfully, they're not, it's just Dave, I'm sorry, Conrad, I'm sorry. They're not doing that now with guys like LA night. They're at least letting the momentum continue to build. And I'm happy for that. But a few years ago, man, that Rusef day thing, that got over. They sold out the shirts and then they just quit doing anything with him.

So I'm just saying in this era when we're saying, hey, the WWF, they never do this. Well, they do now. But I understand this point. If we're going to do essentially a squash match, why not have Scott Hall do a squash match, no disrespect, to the Nick Dinsmore's or the Lenny Lane type characters on the program, not necessarily someone who's supposed to be the best of a division. You have to agree that in hindsight, maybe you could have got somebody else to take Kidman's spot for this, right?

Sure, you could have, but there's also, and I'm not defending this, trust me, when I say this, I actually feel really bad about this, but not for the same reason. as Dave Meltzer would have pointed out, I'm not going to argue that there could have been a better selection for this particular match for Scott. But bear with me. There's also an argument to be said for if you want somebody to get heat, you beat and abuse somebody that the audience loves,

as opposed to a warm body with a pulse that just came out to be. be a whipping boy. So there is some argument to be made that having Scott come out here and do this to a guy who's just beginning to get his feet underneath him and get some momentum and has the support of the audience on some levels makes sense compared to just a squash match. Because just a squash match wouldn't have done anything for Scott. Beating somebody that's getting some momentum actually does at some level not to justify this match but there was a reason wasn't a good reason but there was a reason by the way i also virgil saw virgil i want to just shift gears for a second because mostly i feel shitty about myself right now and i need to but last weekend i was in hamburg

Pennsylvania, about an hour and a half outside of Philadelphia, doing a small wrestling convention. Saw a lot of people there. Ron Simmons got to hang out with him and DeLo Brown and Godfather. Saw a lot of other people. Ex-Poc was there. It was great. It's always great to see people you haven't seen in a long time. But the coolest part of it was, and one of the reasons I get a kick out of doing some

of these events, is I was in the Hamburg Fieldhouse, which I was. which was built around 1960 or 61, I think. And the guy, the promoter came over to me as I'm sitting there and I'm signing autographs and there was a ring set up in the middle of the field house because later that night they were going to have wrestling matches. And he came over and started telling me the history of the building, which I always dig. I always like thinking about, you know, if these walls could talk. You know, what have they seen?

Who performed here? And the promoter proceeded to tell me. And it was such a historic building in so many ways. Vince Sr. ran the building and told me about the Piper's Pit, you know, coconut scene that took place back in the corner. And then he pointed up to the lighting grid over the ring. And he said, Vince Sr. paid for that lighting rig. That was the same lighting rig that Vince Sr. used to use when they did TV tapings in a Hamburg house.

It has nothing to do with what we're talking about here, but it's kind of like the history and the legacy. And every once in a while, you get an opportunity to be in a building and you get just a little sniff. of what things might have been like back in that day. But man, how far has wrestling come since then? Yeah. We,

man, oh, man, it's interesting to look back at this and just see how much wrestling has changed or maybe how much of it is the same. I, for one,

really thought Scott Hall was one of the more underrated performers of all time and his demons have been discussed ad nauseum forever but his impact on wrestling will just never be forgotten and you and I when we did a tribute show in his regard man we said he's probably when you think about cool whatever that means those words you know those letters touching cool Scott Hall's probably the epitome of that is he not sure was and you go all the way back You know, I was going through social media a couple days ago and, you know, somebody sent me a photo of Kurt Hennig and Scott Hall back at the AWA. He was cool back then.

I think he came out of the shoot cool. I don't know if there was ever a time in Scott Hall's life where he wasn't kind of, and it was not like he was always trying to be. He just was. He just had such an instinct and look in the way he carried himself. And it's really unfortunate. obviously it's unfortunate cost him his life but the demons that got a hold you know that were a hold of scott as we're watching him here and prior I mean this wasn't new the situation that Scott was in here was something that had been building up and

developing for a long long time wow and here we're making fun of it um had that not been the case had Scott not had the demons he had not not even going to go into why he had them because I understand it. People that know Scott's story and his history and some of the things that happened in Scott's life before professional wrestling, know what I'm talking about. But had that not happened, Scott Hall was not only cool as shit. Not only did he have an amazing instinct, beyond his knowledge, he had instinct and understood what worked and how to create that emotion and how to get over and his timing everything about scott was almost perfect when he was in his right mind but his creative instincts and what he could do

and could have done what he did for stang steve boredon with the crow character that was scott hall that wasn't eric bischoff that wasn't steve bored and that wasn't kevin selvin that wasn't anybody that was scott hall that created that character And he did it effortlessly. If Scott would have been able to manage his demons, his, he would still be here today having a major influence on the product that we're seeing today, whether it's an EW or WW or WW or anywhere else.

Because he was one of a kind, one of a kind that could not only do it, but he could teach it. and he could inspire others and and get people over whether he was involved in the ring with him or not he was he was a magic magic guy we've got uh alex right out here strutting that ass taken on davy boy smith uh melzer would say i won't say this was smith's first good match in wcb because that's going too far but this is the best he's looked and he did two good moves one of which was his upside down surfboard and the crowd popped big for there was a ref bump

and a second ref came in right back suplex smith and both guys got a shoulder up at two but each ref blew the call so we see davy boy here and unfortunately he's not maybe in the best space personally at this time we know sadly uh he's not long for this world in this era but what a incredibly talented performer and i know you and i both thought Alex right, man, he could have been a much, much bigger star. But this finish here with the referee screw job thing, we've recently seen on TV where there were moments like this where maybe they, the referees were to bear a little bit of blame.

What's protocol or what should be protocol as far as responsibility of the referee in the case of a, uh, a snafu? Well, first of all, the referees should have a, should be miced or should have an earbud so your director should be talking to your referee so that in case of a botching you're probably referring to what happened with John Moxley a week or so ago that was horrible a horrible situation doubled down horrible on the fact that he was dropped on his head not just once which was bad enough and knocked him out but twice because the ref didn't know

how to call the finish the ref didn't know what to do it wasn't an inexperienced ref i'm guessing i don't know him not being critical of him it was a bizarre situation i guess but the fact that there wasn't a director in his ear telling him exactly what to do so that the so that the ref could guide the talent through it that's the botch communication was the botch obviously the move was botched and the pile driver which is so fucking dangerous anyway i hate seeing it it's not even impressive anymore because people do it so often it's the least impressive finishing move out there in my opinion it's not dynamic it doesn't look particularly awesome and it's been so overdone it's almost meaningless add to that it's fucking dangerous and now you've got an inexperienced

referee on top of it and what appears to be I'm not there I wasn't there but I'm guessing there was no communication between the ref and the truck or if it was something went wrong now and I don't want to say what should have been done I wasn't there in the heat of the moment that that whole sequence of events and the ref going down and doing a two count when it was clearly a three count you had a tight camera shot on top of it so the audience watching it home just went what the hell it just exacerbated everything but i don't know i it is ultimately the referee's responsibility not the directors but the fact that there was likely no communication between the director and an inexperienced

referee compounded the issue i don't know how the refs didn't see that moxley was down When he didn't get his shoulder up, it was clearly hurt. Easy for me to say because I wasn't in the moment and it's 2020 hindsight, all that. I get it. I'm guilty of it. I'm human too. But I can't imagine how a referee could clearly see that the guy's unconscious and didn't do what he was supposed to do and call a three count anyway. It's like, what the fuck?

Maybe that referee shouldn't have been refereeing that match. I don't know. I don't know too hard because I wasn't there. I don't know all of the circumstances. All I know is what I saw. It's a tough spot. Being a referee, by the way, now that I've said all that, can be one of the more difficult jobs in that ring.

Yeah. You're not only calling the action, you're performing as you should perform based on the action that's happening inside of the ring, but you're also, well, most of the time, you're also listening to the truck. You're conveying time. You're reminding the talent of,

how much time they have left or when to go home or when to buy more time and for whatever reason the director decides we need more time in this match all of those things happen and they're all happening in real time while you're performing you talk about spinning plates so i know i was just i was hard on that referee at that particular match but i also want to suggest to the audience that being a referee can be one of the more difficult jobs in that ring it's one of the the third man in the ring is a real thing you know it's more than just the two performers there and we're fortunate and lucky enough over an 83 weeks to hear from two of those more iconic third men in the ring uh we've got nick patrick representing the wc wc

side of things and mike yota representing the w e side of things and they alternate weeks on what we call uh monday mailbag we do that format because we think man these guys have been in there for so many matches and moments uh we want you guys to be able to pick their brain. So if you haven't checked that content out, go out of your way to do it. So here comes our second referee, Mr. Charles Robinson. Let's try to track this and see what the announcers try to make of this finish here. Love helps going to come or not.

He's got a pickup. It's going to reach over the top. One, two. No, no, he got the, did he get the shoulder on? Wait, wait, way, way here. We had two referees count. Uh-uh, that won't. Why?

Both wrestlers had their shoulders down on the mat. This is kind of cool. And an argument's going on. I really think that Billy Silverman, the referee, aside is the one that presides over this. Who's ever in charge of the match? And he raised the hand. Is he ringing the bell because the match is over? Is he going to start the match again?

We've got two referees. I like that. This fight's going on. This match is over. over, the bell standard to get the combatants out of the ring. Well, they're going to get together and talk this out and come up with a decision here. The argument goes on, and Mike, you're right to say that both wrestlers had their shoulders down, but Silverman saw is what we saw, the shoulder coming up.

Brain will let you talk through this one again, show the fans exactly what we're talking about. Good job with the Shakespeare by the referees there, to any audience in the conversation. hit the referee. Bulldog is unaware of it. But then Alex comes up from behind. Suplex them one. Now they're both counting. Two. See now Bulldog gets his shoulders up.

Silverman sees it. The other referee does not see it. Yeah, but did Alex Wright get his shoulder up? Well, let's see. Listen, I know that this is lost on a lot of people here, but I really like the idea that we're trying to, uh, create a little bit, uh, real sports controversy. In football, they have these type of debates all the time.

He was in. He was out. I was thinking the same thing. Yeah. I was thinking the same thing. And this was done. I mean, I've seen similar angles play out and not be done very well.

Like the audience would just groan. But this one was done really, really well. And there's nothing wrong with a match like this that leads to a rematch or some other, you know, evolution of the story. Nothing wrong with it when it's done really, really well.

You just don't want to do that type of thing too often. nitro parties were such a big deal of the program and uh well a big deal of our program is uh the nitro girls and when i see the nitro girls i can't help but think about one of our sponsors maybe our favorite sponsor certainly our longest sponsor blue chew they deliver the same active ingredients as viagra se alice and levitra but in chewable form and at a fraction of the cost take them anytime day or night so you can plan ahead or be ready whenever an opportunity arises the process is simple you'll sign up at bluechew.com consult with one of their licensed medical providers and once you're approved you'll receive your prescription within days and here's the best part it's all done

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Visit bluechew.com for more details and important safety information. And we thank Bluechew for sponsoring today's podcast. So let's get back to Nitro here. The Nitro girls are doing their thing. And we're rocking and rolling here on September 28th, 1998. And three, two, one, play. As I understand it, we've still got a couple of little

squash match is still to come. We've got Kevin Nash and Brian Adams. And we've got Lex Lugar and Conan taken on Darso and Hugh Morris. And then our main event is going to be here. But what a tag team that is Darso and Hugh Morris. Barry Darso, Robinsdale, Minnesota, went to high school with my wife. I believe that. Actually, Barry Darso used to date my wife's best friend. What a small world. It is indeed a small world. And Barry's son is now a canine officer, I think either in Michigan or Wisconsin. He trains. He actually worked in TNA for just a little bit. I got him a gig there for a while. I lost you guys there for a second. We're still here with you and we're glad that you guys are tuning in to 83 weeks. We've got a lot of different questions that we should

get to. Dylan Leahy wants to know whether any ECW talents that Eric had his eye on during this time, or at least we're on his radar. Guys like Rob Van Dam, Jerry Lynn, Tommy Dreamer. None. I think I had worked with Jerry Lynn in WCW on and off prior to ECW. So I was certainly aware of him. Jerry's from Minneapolis, I believe, was exposed to him there. But no, I mean, Kevin Sullivan had his eye on ECW.

And I think Terry Taylor did as well. So any of the talent that was of interest, IWCW at that time was of interest because of Kevin's Kevin Sullivan's familiarity with them or and or Terry Taylor's. I really, and I'm not saying this to take a shot at anybody. I just wasn't watching it at all. Like, I don't think I watched five minutes of ECW when it was on television throughout their entire run, but Kevin did and Terry did.

So for me, no, not, not personally. We got a promo here for Halloween Havoc. you've set the record straight so many of us have believed for so long that starcade was the WrestleMania for WCW you would contend it was actually Halloween Havoc and just based on the vibe in the feel at times that's hard to argue but we do have a question about Starcade from Jeffrey he wants to know was there ever any thought to build into a sting bret heart match at starcade 98 instead of a feud ending at Halloween havoc or was it always going to end a Halloween havoc because Sting needed to take a leave of absence.

There was, you know, circumstances aside, because I don't remember all of them, but it was never contemplated, a Sting, red heart match. Not that it wouldn't have been a good idea, by the way, not that it wouldn't have become contemplated at some point, but it wasn't on the table in any of our initial thoughts or discussions. You know, we should at least talk about. uh you know some of the news and notes about the the ratings here and remind everybody that this is september so your competition is more than just monday night raw and late

september what's everybody paying attention to on monday nights eric come on now uh yeah monday night football is uh is back and uh it did an 11.1 rating for the lions versus the Bucks, which was head to head of year. That's the second lowest in the 29 year history of the show. But you also had something else going on. San Francisco taking on the Cubs on ESPN, WGN, and KTVU. That does an 8.1 rating on ESPN, a 9.3 rating overall in the cable universe and a 7.6 in the entire broadcast universe. Now, you might be saying, to yourself self why is everybody watching that we're winding down the regular season and sammy sosa is chasing roger maris's record so you've got monday night football an all-time baseball record

on the line and oh by the way monday night raw this is some pretty damn stiff competition raw does a 4.67 rating and a 6.9 share nitro does a 3.99 rating and a 5.8 share if you combine wrestling together it's 8.54 in the cable you universe, a.k.a. just slightly behind baseball. This is. That's amazing. Yes. I mean, that's and today you hear dirt sheet writers peripheral experts justifying a low rating because little league baseball was on TV. I mean, it's a women's volleyball. It's like, come on. It tells you where and people would say all they want. about how people watch TV and streaming and, you know, more people are watching now than ever before.

And you can, you know, join into that circle jerk if you choose to. But the truth is, professional wrestling was at the, I don't want to say the apex of pop culture at that time. But if you look at the combined number of WCW and WWE against Monday night football and against baseball, particularly that game, that game amazing. Amazing numbers. Amazing numbers. Let's do a couple more questions here. Before we do, I guess we should mention that there's been a lot of talk in recent years about in the demo. Well, in the demos and the head to head hours, Nitro maintained a slight edge of males 2554 and 55 plus, but got routed 426 to 255 among males 18 to 24, which was an age group that Nitro

used to own. Raw, which generally trails greatly among women, also won women 2554 and even 1824 handily, an age group WCW, usually more than doubles WWFN. So the women is a piece of the story we've never really talked about. We hear so much about men 2554. That's the demo. Blah, blah, blah, blah. But we've also heard that more women watch WWW than watch AEW. And I would imagine that here normally nitro would see more women watching it rather than some of the stuff they were doing on wb was that ever a priority i know that when i interviewed jim heard several years ago he wanted to get the kids for the licensing and the merch and the action figures and all that sort of stuff but was women do you remember that ever being an initiative for wcd no

Nope. And that was, that is, I should say still is. One of the things that WWE has done so well. And I think a lot of that credit goes to Stephanie McMahon because during this period of time as you're kind of breaking down the demos, especially the 18 to 24 year old males, well, guess why they were watching because of the way women were utilized in a very provocative, very sexual, overtly so manner? of course you're going to get 18 to 24 year olds my god i was one once i know how that shit works it's pretty simple sex has always sold particularly in that demo right and that's what we was doing back then it wasn't until much later that wwee as i pointed out in my opinion at least thanks to stephan mcman um started positioning women much differently And building their women's audience as a result of it and making women competitive and developing them and creating characters like Charlotte Flair, bringing in, you know, credible female athletes like Ronda Rousey and so many others. I could name a bunch of them to this moment.

Look at where Becky Lynch is today as a performer compared to what Sable did, not to pick on Sable. She was doing what a lot of other women did in WWE at the time. But there's a big difference there. And I think one of the reasons WWE has such a strong women's compote today is because of the commitment they made to develop that female talent base. WCW never did that. There wasn't enough women around at that time. There was a small handful domestically.

And the women that existed internationally, we brought them over as often as we could. old Nakano and Medusa as an example but it wasn't like there was a roster full of women you know over in japan that we could bring over on a regular basis and there weren't very many women in the united states that were pursuing a career in professional wrestling and many of them who were really weren't ready for tv so there's such a limited talent pool at that time and it wasn't a priority a mistake i might add lack of foresight i might add but nonetheless there wasn't a commitment to let's develop women let's start bringing some let's go

out and scout some women and bring them in and train them to be pros and to develop characters and to present their athletic abilities in the ring that did not exist not proud of it but it just i mean but let me ask this i don't know the answer so i'm i'm legit asking there was such a void of women's wrestling on TV for so long like it was a real rarity to see women wrestling on TV in the 80s when I first started watching I can't imagine there was much more in the 70s or 60s like it grew as time went on but yet women were still watching wrestling eventually I do think the worm turns so to speak I mean you could take a look at the crowd of say a JCP crowd back in the day and I'm not going to say it was 50 50 but

there were a lot more women than there would be at a show today. And I think you see, you know, more families and more women at a WWE show than you do at an AEW show because you're maybe catering to more of the hardcore fans. I get that. But I am just really legitimately curious. Do you believe one of the keys to success to getting women to watch the show is to have women female performers? I ask because when we examine stuff from the impact or the TNA era, the segments that did

the best were the women segments, the knockouts. But I don't think that the ladies really wanted to see the scantily clad bra and panty matches as much as the guys. So I'm wondering, is the inverse of that potentially also true? Those ladies back in the 80s, they were showing up to JCP because they wanted to see Rick Flair and they wanted to see Carrie Von Erick and they wanted to see like, that feels logical to me that guys are going to want to watch. the ladies' matches and girls are going to want to match the guys' matches. Am I off base there? Or do you think we need female?

It's human nature, right? I mean, there's, there are pheromones floating throughout the arena and some of them are attractive to males and other attractives of females. It's kind of human nature. But I think, you know, I think what happens is when a product gets hot, when, when you've got, whether it's WWE or even WCD, I was going to comment earlier on a couple of the crowd shots.

There were some pretty attractive women that started showing up, you know, to Nitro events because Nitro became an event. It became a party. And it was a lot more fun for women to go and hang out and watch a bunch of guys beaten on each other, big athletic, you know, good looking, you know, talent is most of some of the time, I should say, often. But it was more like a party. It might have been true.

I wasn't there in the JCP days because when it was hot, yeah, if you're a female and your boyfriend or a significant other, it says, hey, let's go to a wrestling match. It was a lot easier to do when the product was hot and cool and fun and felt more like a party. I think you're right. You know, in the 60s, the 70s, the 80s when I was a wrestling fan before I got into the wrestling business, even after I got into the wrestling business, you know, Wendy Richter was a, we see her often, not regularly, not every week, but Wendy Richter and some of the women that she worked with, who I can't recall, but I do recall Wendy Richter. She was a very athletic

way ahead of her time, actually. I think, you know, in terms of being a real trailblazer, which everybody likes to use, you know, I'd go back and look at early 80s. Wendy Richter because she wasn't just out there, T&A, not the wrestling version, the tits and ass version. She wasn't out there just as eye candy. She was out there performing and did so very, very well. But there was so few of them. So I think the key to getting women to grow the women's audience lies primarily in building

the Charlotte Flares and the Becky Lynch's and the Ronda Rouseys and so many more. more of the Brit Bakers, you know, people that are out there that are performing, that are attractive, but they're also very athletic. That's aspirational. You know, and that's what I think makes wrestling work at the most fundamental of all psychology is you're living vicariously through the characters you see on television. Yes, you go there for the sex appeal and just the inherent human attraction. But I think beyond that, more than that, it's the aspirational nature of wrestling, the larger-the-life characters, therefore the grace of God go I, you know, potential in

what you're seeing in front of you. And I think as WWE has done and AEW is continuing to do, you're seeing more and more athletic women that other women can relate to. It makes them feel okay about going to a wrestling event. They're not just going to a testicle festival. They're going to an event where they see characters in the ring that in their minds, again, there for the grace of God go I. And sometimes those aspirational characters become inspirational characters and inspire women.

Did you say, look at there, right? See what I said? See what I just said right there. As you're watching, if you're not watching, there's a very attractive young, 20-something-year-old blonde at Rangside, having a blast. but yeah i think the combination of aspirational inspirational characters for women is one of the reasons why the wwe has been so successful in our area i wanted to bring up a couple more news and notes before we get ready for our main event here um melts the big biggest topic of

conversation over the past week in wrestling was the brethart wrestling with shadows movie as copies of preliminary tapes have gotten around had you seen it by this point or when did you seat wrestling with shadows and what did you think i've never seen it i've never sat down and watched it i've seen a clip or two of it we got to watch it for ad free shows one day i think you'd yeah let's do that because i've never i know it's a hot topic and it was controversial at the time and vaguely remember the development of it and things like that but i know i've never watched it there's going to be a miscommunication at the end of the show but you know it's going to be a big finish when we see michael buffer here we've talked a lot about what he

added um we should see him on monday night football recently we did yeah there you go we should mention uh this is up against the raw where they have the infamous zamboni angle where austin drives it down to the ring to attack Vince McMahon there's a main event of ken shamrock mankind and the rock taking on cane and the undertaker and a handicap match and there's some news and notes before we get to the actual in ring match here i want to bring up while this is not confirmed this does come from people very close to the situation and and it's that the giant is either very close to or has completed a deal to go to the WWF. He's been talking loudly about it for weeks, and some think he's doing that as a move

as a way to get Bischoff's attention and make sure the rumor gets started. He worked all the weekend house shows after missing Utica on November, I'm sorry, September 23rd, complaining of a broken rib, although his action was kept to a minimum. The rumor largely stems from these three things. His talk of acclaimed $1 million per year offer and several wrist. recent threats to take it, which is quite a bit more than what he earns in WCW, coming from the WWF, the validity of which is speculative, although knowing what Vince, what Vince McMahon likes and knowledge they've wanted him from the start, the giant fits the bill,

given his age, 27, and his huge size. But giant no-showing Nitro on September 28th and the talk from his friends in recent days saying that he's going or is already gone, not to mention that his career has been stagnant for quite a while when did you know that the real life paul white was frustrated with his spot in wcw and what were the overall issues with him when did you know he was making overtures about wanting to go to the wbf what can you tell us about that he told me right off the bat he told me he was going to have a conversation with vince i told him i would too if i were you yeah he told me that he had a million dollar a year guarantee and I congratulated him.

I mean, I had done, I had worked with Paul and this is, I like Paul. I liked him. I still like him. He is a good guy. Yes. He really is a good guy. But on the creative side, I had a hard time figuring out what to do with Paul. You can't go out there and have him eat everybody because there's no one

left for him to work with. You can't get sympathy on a guy that's seven foot tall and 400 pounds or whatever he was. That's right. It's just creatively very, very difficult. And I knew I couldn't fix that. So as much as I liked Paul, I didn't want the perception of somebody leaving my company going to the competition. That's always a little bit of a sting. It doesn't draw blood, but it stinks. I didn't want it to happen. But I didn't lift a finger to prevent it either. I didn't say encouraged it, but I supported it. There was no secret.

There was no gamesmanship. Paul wasn't trying to spread rumors. It wasn't any of that Dave Meltzer horseshit that he lives off of. It was a very simple decision on Paul's part. It was support on my part. There was no way I was going to try to match a million dollars a year for Paul White, which was a guy that we couldn't figure out anything really consistently to do. We could use them as an attraction, but you can't justify $5 million a year downside guarantee.

And that's what Paul's offer was. It was a million dollars a year downside guarantee. There's no way I was going to even attempt to match that. There's no way I'd give my money back out of it. I knew that. I'd worked for a couple years at that point. So here we go, man. Brad Hart, Hulk Hogan, hooking it up here.

We waited so long for it to happen and it's finally happening. Well, I'd love to talk to Charles Robinson and get his perception or perspective as the referee in this match to hear what these guys are talking about, how they were calling it. What went on in the ring between those two guys that we couldn't hear or didn't see? Hogan's working here. You know, you can say what you want about Hulk Hogan or his relationship with Brett, but this is a different Hulk Hogan than you would have seen in any other match. Hulk is trying to up his game here to compliment or showcase Brett style of wrestling. Yes, he is.

You know, spinning around into a front face lock, you know, standing switch into a reversal. You didn't see Holt do that with anybody else. You'd see that kind of stuff out of Hulk Hogan in Japan, but not too often in the United States. No doubt. What's, um, with a benefit of hindsight, do you think there's anything you could have done to put these guys minds at ease and make them want to do business to each other, make them trust each other? No, because it's not that I didn't try. Right. You know, but Hulk, Hulk can be, especially back then, once he made up his mind about certain things,

I mean, he was very malleable. He'd cooperated in a lot of, you know, he tried different things. He was open-minded in a lot of different ways until it came to trust. When it came to trust, he became very, very rigid. And if he had a reason not to trust you, whether it was real or imagined, it was almost impossible to get him off of it. And I think the same was true with Brett. That's why it was so hard.

It's a story as long as the day is long, you know, guys just not getting along. And it's not unique to wrestling. um let's do a question here from justin he wants to know there's a number of hulk's close friends such as brutus that you didn't really have a high opinion of how did you approach this with hulk did you pick your battles that hulk know your opinion of them um yes he knew he knew I didn't want to showcase some of that talent any more than necessary. In certain cases, you know, some of the, you know, the nasty boys in WCW was added value. Nasty boys, you know, you say what you want about them and they're great and all the other

dirt sheet bullshit. But they were entertaining as hell and the crowd enjoyed them. you know, Hacksaw Jim Duggan came along and was Haxaw at the peak of his career or was he, did he have a gimmick that was dated? Yes, he did. Was he at the peak of his career? No, he wasn't. Did the crowd still really like seeing Hacksaw, Jim Duggan, go back and watch the tape?

Yeah. The crowd loves seeing him. It was a little bit of a wink and a nod. I don't want to call a nostalgia actor. It wasn't quite nostalgia at that point, but it was certainly a wink and a nod to an earlier era. but the crowd loved it. And as we talked about with the Dusty Roads Wrestling Buffet analogy, you need some of that.

You just do. But there were certain talent that I think took away from Hulk. And Brutus was one of them. To this day, I think Hulk would have been better off and more powerful as a character had he not wanted, demanded in some respects, to share the limelight with certain people. like Brutus, to a degree, Jimmy Hart.

You know, Hulk didn't need it. He just didn't need it, but he felt more comfortable in that respect. So you go along with it. But Hulk knew how I felt. I didn't beat anybody up and berate him. And when I said beat him up, I mean verbally obviously. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I didn't bury anybody and petition not to have people on.

television. I did try to minimize it as best I could, because especially in Jimmy Hart's case. And I love Jimmy. Jimmy's a great guy. And he's, he works so hard. He adds so much value in so many different ways. Did back then. But he had a tendency to want to be on TV too much. He had the, and he was right, man. I saw Jimmy in Hamburg. He was a table, two tables away for me, 79 years old with a line of people wanting to get his autograph because he spent so much time on television. So he wasn't wrong for him, but sometimes you need to look at what's best for the talent. And in Jimmy's case, he was out on the show. There's been times I've seen as you and I have gone through shows. You'd see Jimmy come out three, four, five times on the show.

Yes. That's too much. That's overkill. But it was that Memphis mentality. And it worked for Jimmy. But I think it actually took away sometimes from Hulk and some of the other characters. Take a listen, Sting is in the ring. It's obviously Sting. So Sting. Codan and Lex Lugar helping Brett Hart out of the ring. Yeah, that knee may be severely damage, but it's trying to get back in the ring.

I like this. This feels right. he's waited for this moment his entire career so we can kill the audio here what's happened is they've done this too early melzer would say that it all started with hogan dropping hart's knee on the guardrail twice wrapping around the post and continuing to work on it until sting showed up and then luger and conan drag hard away and tie him on a stretcher where the ambulance is ready scott stoner and bagwell jumped conan and luger heart gets off the stretcher and limp backs limp's back. Sting was beating on Hogan and had him in the scorpion when Hart,

cheering Sting on, gives Sting a DDT and destroys him. And Hogan and Hart laughed together at the end. Luger and Conan came out for the save, but it just got weird and fell apart at this point. The lights went out and Warrior was supposed to do a run-in to save Lugar and Conan, except they never got in the ring to begin with due to a massive communication and the show just went off the air three minutes early without warrior ever doing anything. Nitro was a mess by the end of the show as it went off three minutes early before the hour because Hogan, Sting, and Hart ended their angle way too early. They actually sent Conan and Lugar back out to try and stall to keep action going.

Meanwhile, Raw had nine unopposed minutes going off the air at 11.06 p.m. Man, you did a great job setting it up in one of the opening segments. It's going to be Hogan versus Brett, first time ever. We continue that thread throughout the show on the commentary. And then when it comes time to do it, yeah, we got a couple minutes of it. But now here comes Sting and here comes Lugar and here comes Conan. It just becomes, frankly, an overbooked mess. You know when it becomes a perfect example of WCW disease.

Never. This was not a complicated finish. This could have been an easy story to tell, but it was way overbooked, way more complicated than it needed to be. Too many moving pieces. Way too freaking complicated for a live show. And it just wasn't necessary.

To tell the story we wanted to tell, it absolutely was not necessary to overcomplicate this finish. Just. still pisses me off to this day. This is what we sucked at. We didn't say everything's so great in so many respects, especially during, you know, 96, 97, 98, even. Well, early into 98, mid-98, but it's just the overbooking

and the lack of clean, and when I say clean, I don't necessarily mean a clean, one, two, three finish, but a clean finish in the sense that it was dramatic. It advanced the story. It set up what could happen going forward. that's what a great finish should do and this was the opposite of that it just pisses me off to this day it's such a waste i hate waste i hate wasted opportunity here's an example of a wasted opportunity this could have been so fucking good and it ends up being a kaleidoscope of schmuck

it's just it's a mess man and i mean listen don't get me wrong it tickles me to see scott Steiner and Buff Bagwell climb out of the back of the ambulance wearing all white and the crowd's really going nuts here let's track the finish sting is putting the scorpion on hogan he's got him oh my god what did he teach sting what did he do what did he do steng was a man that helped him the entire NWL and he's traveling sting he's pabbling sting each day. Oh, is he ever? Hoking on his days.

All right. So we can cut the audio. It's hard to make sense of this. I mean, you know, obviously, it doesn't make any. That's why it's so hard. Why would these guys come out here and wrestle and hurt each other and wrap their legs around the post and pretend to do a match? And then, oh, no, it was really a swerve the whole time.

We got a little too cute for our own good here. And this is not Vince Rousseau's fault. I know a lot of times when people would talk about the swerve bro, they always just say, oh, it was Rousseau. This one just makes no sense. And I understand that, hey, if we can't get Brett and Hogan to work against each other, let's get them to work with each other. But this is a really convoluted way to get here. And we sort of saw that in the WWF for WrestleMania 9. I didn't get that pay-per-view, but my friend did.

And I remember calling and saying, hey, man, I saw Brett Hart was wrestling Yoko Zuna for the title. Who won? Who's the champ? Hulk Hogan. No, no, he was in the tag match for the tag titles with Money, Inc. I'm asking about the world title with Yoko Zuna and Brett Hart. That was the main event of WrestleMania. Who's the champ?

Hulk Hogan. Well, it's sort of the same thing here now, it feels like, you know, second verse, same as the first. Hey, man, what happened at the end of the Hulk Hogan Brett Hart match? Well, Sting put the Scorpion death lock on Hulk Hogan. Wait, what? It doesn't make any sense. It was right there.

We could have did it, but we didn't. Ultimately, we know this means they're going in the direction of instead of Hogan versus Sting again for the 9,000th time or Hogan versus Brett, which we really thought we wanted. We're going to get Brett versus Sting, which again, I still like, but we didn't need Hogan in the middle of this. It just feels a mess. I don't know another way to say it.

Bad creative. So it's it. And there's probably reasons for it. I'd like to hear Kevin Sullivan's a. opinion of this. I let it happen, so ultimately it's my responsibility, not Kevin Sullivan's, but Kevin was a part of it. I'd like to hear the real story behind it. My guess is this is the result of a multitude of compromises that ended up occurring throughout the day. This match probably started out with a pretty clear-cut finish and creative and throughout the course of the day

in an effort to compromise get everybody feeling comfortable make everybody happy it became a diluted cluster fuck i um the thing that that really challenges me the most is the timing of the show and as i understand sometimes people call it back timing who would have been in control of timing a show like this where we're done several minutes before we go off the air and now where we're supposed to be getting people to a fever pitch right at the end of the show where we find ourselves just stalling and I know you've said we needed a guy like Paterson and we needed more infrastructure and we needed a better finish guy and I know all that but as far as someone wearing a headset working on the timing saying okay go and then communicating to the referee through the IFB hey tell

them to go home now at this point it's a director The show's been formatted, the show's been timed before we go on the air. Adjustments need to be made sometimes during the course of the show. If a match ends up early or goes a little bit too long, which is usually the case. Yes, you do have to adjust a minute here, two or three minutes there. That all happens during the course of the show. And by the way, that happens almost every live show. I've never been at a live show when I've been in Guerrilla in WWE or in that same position of WCW.

when I was doing it, where you weren't adjusting as you went along. It's just what it is. But the show would have been timed. Everybody would have been evolved from David Crockett, everybody in production. Jody Hamilton probably was there helping to time. But once the show was timed, laid to paper, handed over to the truck, the lights go on, the bell rings, TV's on its way. Then it's your director who's calling the shots with the,

referee in the ring, whoever that referee happened to be, who was taught, it was telling the talent where we are in terms of time, whether we needed a stretch, whether we needed to hurry things up. It's your director, direct communication to your referee who is in communication to the talent to the ring. It's that simple. There's no more mystery to it than that. And sometimes talent was great at listening.

Other times they weren't. And this is probably a case where they weren't. Largely because it was freaking convoluted. Yeah, it was. Well, listen, get your, uh, get your coffee ready, Eric. Next week we're going to be talking about Eddie Guerrero and in the next coming months. We're going to be diving back into Scott Hall once again. We'll watch Halloween Havoc 1999.

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what to expect when we sit down and click record, but watching what could have been the only televised Brett Hart Hulk Hogan singles match in history. And it happened almost 25 years ago today. How about that? It's pretty cool. And by the way, I saw that endeavor, excuse me, the merchandise shot that you had up to it. There's a shirt that says endeavor to persevere. I'm going to send one to Ari Emanuel and Vince McMahon. I like you. They should both be wearing one. And if you listen, to last week's special bonus episode of Strictly Business, there's a lot of people who have to endeavor to persevere. And we'll do so next week, right here on 83 weeks

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