83 Weeks with Eric Bischoff - Episode 295: Bret Screwed Bret

Episode Date: November 6, 2023

On this episode of 83Weeks, Eric and Conrad take us back to November 17th 1997 for the infamous "Bret Screwed Bret" episode of Monday Night RAW. Now remember Eric wasn't watching the competitor at the time, so this will be the VERY FIRST TIME Eric is watching this episode. We believe you'll be surprised by Eric's reaction to the Vince McMahon interview and his perspective on the whole situation. Plus, Eric and Conrad discuss all the happenings in professional wrestling from WWE Crown Jewel, to a wild controversial spot during a PPV that even had Eric cringing. All that plus so much more on this edition of 83Weeks with Eric Bischoff. CROWD HEALTH - CrowdHealth was created to get rid of the headaches of health insurance. Visit JoinCrowdHealth.com and use Code WRESTLE to get started today for just $99 per month for the first three months. FACTOR - Head to FACTORMEALS.com/83weeks50 and use code 83weeks50 to get 50% off.  GAMETIME - Take the guesswork out of buying tickets with Gametime. Download the Gametime app, create an account, and use code WEEKS for $20 off your first purchase (terms apply). Download Gametime today. Last minute tickets. Lowest Price. Guaranteed. ROCKET MONEY - Cancel your unwanted subscriptions – and manage your money the easy way – by going to RocketMoney.com/83WEEKS HENSON SHAVING - It’s time to say no to subscriptions and yes to a razor that’ll last you a lifetime. Visit HENSONSHAVING.com/ERIC to pick the razor for you and use code ERIC and you’ll get two years' worth of blades free with your razor–just make sure to add them to your cart. BLUECHEW - Try BlueChew FREE when you use our promo code 83WEEKS at checkout--just pay $5 shipping. That’s BlueChew.com, promo code 83WEEKS to receive your first month FREE WRESTLECADE - Come meet Eric Bischoff at WrestleCade! Wrestlecade is a 3-day family friendly convention for fans of wrestling & sports entertainment which brings together more than 125 of your favorite wrestling stars from all eras. November 24-26, 2023 at the Benton Convention Center in Winston-Salem, NC. ➡️ Tickets or info at https://www.wrestlecade.com" SAVE WITH CONRAD - Stop throwing your money on rent! Get into a house with NO MONEY DOWN and roughly the same monthly payment at SaveWithConrad.com ADVERTISE WITH ERIC - If your business targets 25-54 year old men, there's no better place to advertise than right here with us on 83 Weeks. You've heard us do ads for some of the same companies for years...why? Because it works! And with our super targeted audience, there's very little waste. Go to AdvertiseWithEric.com now and find out more about advertising with 83 Weeks. Get all of your 83 Weeks merchandise at https://boxofgimmicks.com/collections/83-weeks FOLLOW ALL OF OUR SOCIAL MEDIA at https://83weekslinks.com/ On AdFreeShows.com, you get early, ad-free access to more than a dozen of your favorite wrestling podcasts, starting at just $9! And now, you can enjoy the first week...completely FREE! Sign up for a free trial - and get a taste of what Ad Free Shows is all about. Start your free trial today at AdFreeShows.com. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

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Hey, hey, it's Conrad Thompson, and you're listening to 83 weeks with Eric Fish Off. Eric, what's going on, man? How are you? I am absolutely wonderful, Conrad. Not as good as you based on our conversation prior to hitting the record button, but I'm working on it, man. You're my hero.

I'm chasing you. Oh, my gosh. Listen to you. I am so excited to be with you. We have got, first of all, to apologize, we're a day late recording. I had some business to take care of yesterday, and that threw me off my game. And so we're dropping this a little later, but we're going to make it worth your while because we've got a very special episode today.

We're going to be watching the now infamous Brett Screwed Brett episode of Monday Night Raw. Now, Eric Bischoff has never actually seen this episode, but he's heard about it because this is also the episode where we not only got. maybe the debut of the Mr. McMahon character, where he really doubled down on becoming this television heel persona. But it's also the episode where Rick Rood appeared on both shows, Raw and Nitro.

Well, Eric never actually sat down and watched that Raw. So we're going to be doing that today. But before we get into what happened way back when, let's talk about what's happened over the last week or so in professional rassling. Lots of news and notes to cover. Maybe the biggest story over the weekend was the huge Saudi Arabian event for WWE. Of course, I think most folks know they're making like 50 million dollars per event over there. So this is a WrestleMania all on its own. And what a incredible card this was.

We saw John Sina and Solo Sacoa. I know you had a chance to see that. It felt like they're at least preparing the farewell of John Sina to the WWE universe. And he did what you would expect John Sina to do in that scenario. Solo gets the big win. What'd you think of the match over the weekend, Eric? I am, I've always been a fan of John Sina's always, uh, as the person, John Sina, the professional, John Sina, certainly the performer, John Sina, but what a guy. Yeah. I mean, he is not only putting people over, but he's making them look like a million bucks in the process yeah he is just and some of the stuff that john was doing you know i how old is john i don't even know got to be mid 40s right yeah he's in his late 40s

i think let's uh throw it and he's just for a guy that's been out of the business really as long as he has 46 46 years old he's been out of the business for what five years something like that Close, yeah. And to be able to just go to the closet, grab the boots, go your stuff in the bag, let's go wrestle. The level that he's performing at and bringing out the best of the people that he's working with, I just have so much admiration for John. It was a fantastic match.

I loved watching it. Really enjoyed it. And just, I just can't say enough great things about Justin. he's an example of how to end your career it's just he's doing such a great job totally agree a one an incredible performer what an incredible career of course uh as he's going through the curtain on the way up the ramp Michael Cole referred to him as uh the greatest of all time and that's certainly got to be in this discussion at least from a WWE perspective and what he's meant to business but I'm really hung up on the fact that I know I just had to Google it

I'm sort of shocked that Senna's quote unquote only 46. I mean, CM Punk is 45. We know Jericho is over 50. And I mean, think about what an incredible 18 months or so Jeff Jarrett's had. That dude's 57. He's nine years older than Sina or 11 years older than Sina. I just, um, it's so impressive when you really think about it, especially when you add the context of this is not something he's done. his primary daily activity he just you know have boots will travel i suppose and he made the big trip over and in the process made solo and speaking of making guys boy wwe is doubling down

on logan paul and we've sort of freestyled what that could look like for him over the course of the next year or so but he is now our united states champion i think that was his agent who uh snuck him the brass snucks and his effort against ray mysterio and And considering his, you know, outside the WWE bubble level of social media following and fame and notoriety. This is a home run for WWE, I feel like. What did you think? And, you know, I don't want to be redundant, but Ray Mysterio, how old is Ray? That's a great question.

In 40s? He started wrestling when he was four, so it's kind of hard to keep track. I'm going to make sure I have everyone's age for every show as we move forward. He's 48 years old. He'll be 49 next one. I didn't think he was that old. To be able to go out there and perform at the level, the Ray Mysterio that I saw yesterday when I watched Cronjul certainly was not the Ray Mysterio that we saw, you know, in the mid-90s

in terms of what he was capable of doing in the ring, but he still over-delivered. He looked so good. And the match was believable. I mean, I love, in the color commentary, by the way, play-by-play and color. Hats off to Michael Cole and Wade Barrett, I just thought the color commentary and a play-by-play was, it's as close to perfect for the type of play-by-play and color that I enjoy. It was as close to perfect as it can be. I mean, they reinforced the story. Wade Barrett really brought me into the mind of both more so Ray Mysterial.

Logan, but he did such a great job of painting the picture and enhancing the picture that we were seeing visually, cannot put over Michael Cole and Wade Barrett enough. They really deserve it. But the match was phenomenal, just a phenomenal match. There was two things. One is when the agent came out with the brass knox and then who wasn't there that ran out and made the save got the the knucks away um i don't remember the oh eskabar eskabar he grabbed the knox okay save the day and then he went to chase the agent that brought the necks to the ring

and when he set the knucks up on the ring april and i went oh damn it i wish he would have just dropped the knox on the floor and someone would have had to go out or logan would have had to go out to get those knucks then it would have been a hundred percent believable but it was kind of was a tell. I knew what was going to happen once they set those nucks on the ring apron. But that's a little tiny thing. And maybe it was intentional.

They wanted you to know that that was going to happen. But it, the match was phenomenal. Ray did, he's just you know, I think we got to revise the Mount Rushmore thing. Yeah. Maybe add a couple to it. Because Ray, I think Ray needs to be up

there, man. He is just, just single-handedly creating, created such an interest in Lucha and what he's contributed because of his performance and his professionalism, what he's contributed to the industry is he deserves me in every conversation when it comes to Mount Rushmore. He did a phenomenal job. Logan Paul blows me the fuck away. Pure and simple. I just don't understand how he's become as.

phenomenal as he is with such a limited amount of experience in time in the industry. I mean, it's not just that he can go in there and athletically perform, which he does extremely well, but he's got psychology. His timing is, he's got the timing of a 25-year-old top performer. He knows how to work the crowd. It's natural for him. He doesn't have to learn it. it's already there. And I think that combined with his sense of timing, he doesn't rush anything. He's like he's a step and a half ahead of himself

and he takes his time getting there, which makes everything feel so believable. And it allows you to get sucked in emotionally and it allow you to forget that, oh, I'm watching a professional wrestling event. No, you're watching drama happen right in front of you and you're sucked into it. I just can't say enough about it.

It was so good. I was so glad I watched it. My impression is that Logan Paul just doesn't get nervous. I feel like he's got nerves of steel. And I think that's the reason he's so comfortable and his timing is so good. And he's able to be so patient. I know a lot of times when people get anxious, they talk faster,

they move faster. They're trying to rush through it. He's really letting things breathe. He does have that sense of timing. And I think that's pretty astute that you recognize. and pointed that out. And we should also point out that over the weekend, the main event is the 41-year-old L.A. Knight

lost his championship match to the 38-year-old Roman Rains. Roman Rains continues now. His incredible run, his undefeated street continues. A lot of people were convinced, well, if Roman Rains is really taking time off, they're going to switch the title here. I was never sold on that happening at Crown Jewel unless the Saudi Arabian folks had a little bit of influence over creative.

Hey, if we're paying you this amount of money, we need to see a title switch. Maybe they did ask for that. Maybe they checked that box with Logan Paul. I don't know. But either way, L.A. Knight, not victorious in his quest to Penn Roman reigns. And now a lot of people are wondering, what's next for L.A. 9? He had this incredible momentum going into it.

I'm sure he's going to be super over with the crowd again. he's he's still got I mean they've been behind him whether he was the champ or not I don't know that that would necessarily change now would you program him with Logan Paul for WrestleMania or what would you think his plan would be from here to that big show

I don't know I haven't thought about that I don't think I don't think I'd pair him up with Logan Paul I have to think about that some more I haven't thought about it at all I don't think the loss to Roman is going to mean One bit of difference. I don't think it's going to stall his momentum. If anything, it's going to make his fan base want it even more.

And that's what you hope for. You want the fans to want it more than L.A. Knight wants it. You want the fans to want it more than the company wants it. You want the fans to become undeniable in their desire to see L.A. night advance. And I don't think it's going to be very difficult at all for LA night to pick up right where he left off. I really don't. If anything, I think it's in a weird way, I think it's going to help him. Well, somebody who doesn't need any help right now, they've got all the momentum in the world is Cody Rhodes. He was victorious over

the weekend, besting, uh, Damien Priest. But the big report out of, uh, wrestlingomics our pal over there, Brandon Thurston, WWE merch is the number one. moving product for WWE, but when it comes to talent specific, Cody Rhodes is the number one merch mover in the entire company for 2023. Oh, Stone Cold Steve Austin's on the list. John Cena's on the list.

LA Knights on the list. Roman reigns on the list. But Cody Rhodes, and I see this comment every time he's on TV. If I happen to be on or around social media, I see people saying pretty consistently, Cody is the top guy. and I know there was some debate early in the year should they have gone with

Sammy at WrestleMania we know they went with Cody but Cody much like everybody before him was not able to beat Roman Raines and now there's been more recent conversation well it's LA night now LA night's the top guy but bands are so fickle aren't they it's interesting to me you know it's a great problem to have if you're WWE to have so many talent who are connecting with the audience the way they are but perhaps don't have connected as big as Cody Rhodes. Do you consider Cody Rhodes to be the top guy and with Roman taking this

reported leave of absence, does his star shine even brighter? I think it will. I think it'll give, give Cody more camera time. And Cody, you know, I mean, not only is a great performer. That's just, that goes without saying. But he exudes a level of class and professionalism. that I haven't seen in a long,

long time. And that's not to suggest that there aren't others who are very, very professional and come to the ring with class and represent the company and the genre just as importantly. It's advancing the genre when you have performers as phenomenal as Cody Rhodes and LA Knight and so many others. I don't want to leave people. I don't always hesitate to name people because you're automatically,

you run the risk of leaving somebody out that deserves it. But there's just a level of class and professionalism along with the phenomenal athletic and storytelling ability. Definitely, Cody number one. And I think this is a, again, I'm glass half full. This is me looking at WrestleMania, which will be here in about a minute and a half. Yes. In terms of life.

um i just think it sets them up even more so for russomanio cody rose it's like cody's fans want it yes that's why they're buying a merch they want it more than cody does that's that's a gift from god it's not a gift you work for it you earn it but a blessing nonetheless if you're wondering cody roads is 38 uh by the way it was it like i'm testing you here. I'm going to be ready from now on. I'm sorry. And I want you guys to be ready. Stop sending money to big insurance companies that profit off of not paying your bills. Did you know that 48 million claims of Obamacare last year were denied? That's one fifth of claims that are going to get rejected. Do you want to take that chance? Listen, here's the deal. Health insurance

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insurance. Learn more at join crowdhealth.com. That's join crowdhealth.com and use our code wrestle to get started for just $99 per month for the first three months. So Eric, we were talking about you know, the top guy in WWV. And what a great problem it is to have this many guys that are over in the WWE. And I saw something that I shared with you on Reddit over the weekend that I was fascinated by. It was, believe it or not, and just bear with me here, Eric.

It was a conversation from Dave Meltzer. And I know you don't like Dave Meltzer. However, he pointed out AEW, they have so many people under contract. Joe Silva, who by the way is the first. former UFC matchmaker and Hall of Famer would tell me we can have 300 people and 50 people under contract. We're still only going to have 10 stars either way because you can get only a certain number of people over. WWE understands this. And in the recap, it's written here, Dave says AEW doesn't need to keep adding guys to their TV, even if they're good. Dave says AEW has so many

guys that are good and can have good matches, but, quote, they're all over the place. He compares it to a UFC Saturday Night Show where he says the fighters are all good and the fights are all good, but quote, unless you're super hardcore, you don't care about any of them because they're not big names, end quote. Dave wants to see AEW focus on their core guys and help them get really over and become stars. And I sent this to you because I know that you dealt with this on the WCW side. of things and we've talked about that a long time about how loaded you were at the top you had

goldberg you had steing you had lex luger you had rick flair you had kevin nash you had macho man you had ddp on and on and on and on uh you had those handful of ten super over stars and yes you had a really strong tag division and yes you had great international talent and yes the cruiser weight matches were incredible but the people who were really the needle movers are like those top 10 guys. And even when we take a look at like the top merch sellers this year for WWE, somehow John Cena and Stone Cold are still on the list. And yes, they're there with Roman Raines and LA Knight and Cody Rhodes. But the point is, there's only so much capacity, if you will, to have fans care about so many guys. And that was something we've

never really pinpointed. But to hear a UFC guy, Joe Silva say, we're only going to have 10 guys over. I thought, damn, I got to talk about that with Eric. What do you think about Joe Silva's comment? Whether we got 50 guys in the UFC or 300, no matter what, we're only going to have 10 guys over. Yeah. And what's interesting is Dave makes these comments. And, you know, there's no arguing with the premise of what he wrote. But what Dave doesn't do and is incapable of doing is, you know, he'll say, well, you got to get more guys over. How the fuck do you do that? how do you get more guys over Dave how do you get one guy over and Dave's whole angle on what makes a good booker i.e. Tony con being booker the year for two years in a row absent any cohesive story compelling stories

absent anything that looks like disciplined well executed creative structure it's just random throwing dream matches up against the wall for no apparent reason to pop a number or to get a this is also a verified what is it verified does he call it uh whatever a well-deserved this is awesome champ like that's not getting guys over getting guys over is not only identifying the talent that has the charisma as well as the athletic ability you Athletic ability is important. In Dave's world, it's the most, the most important. In my world, it's number two or three.

Because unless you've got charisma, that intangible magic that separates all those who can from those who become, you know, anybody can learn, not anybody, because I've tried, anybody can learn how to play guitar, if you commit it. what makes Stevie Ray Vaughan you know what made BB King what made some of the what made Jimmy Hendricks and and there are special people

that have that magic and you have to be able to identify it and it's not based on what appears to be more often than not Olympic level floor gymnastics It's that charisma combined with the athletic ability.

I'm not shitting on that. But charisma first, and you have to have story. You're never going to get anybody over unless you put as much time and effort and discipline into creating a well-crafted story with an arc, with an intentional destination, and a payoff that's going to create a mass amount of emotion of emotion in the fan base, that's what it takes. And that's the opposite of everything that Dave puts over. His five-star match thing is just about the intensity and I guess the volume of high-flying,

aerial athleticism. It's not what gets people over. And I agree with whoever the guy was from UFC. see, you know, you can put it three, you know, again, this is, I often, you know, when I'm critical or critiquing or offering an alternative perspective, call it whatever you want it. I try not to be negative for the sake of being negative. That's not my deal.

But a lot of what forms my opinion and, and, and create some of the emotion when I'm expressing that opinion, is what I've learned by making wrong decisions, not just what I've learned making good decisions. There's no, I shouldn't say there's no value, but there's far more value in mistakes and choices that you recognize is not the right ones than there is in the, recognizing the decisions you made that were very successful. I learn more from mistakes. I learn more from failures.

I study it. I analyze it. I remind myself. I've been there. You know, in that long list of names that you gave, you left out Roddy Piper. You left out Holkogen.

Yeah. And there were others. You know, we had a whole cruiserweight division that were extremely talented. But at the very, very top, we were so dense.

And that's what happens is you don't have the time, the television time. Or, you know, if it takes, if you've got two guys in a main event, and then in your A story, A story, meaning it should get the most amount of television time throughout an episode consistently until that story has a resolution.

But if you've got two of your top guys in your A story, and then you've got your B story coming up underneath it, let's throw L.A. Knight in that current kind of category because he's so over, you've got to give that guy television time because that's what the audience is demanding, right? Then you've got a C story. Then you've got a D story. Once you get into it, even with a three-hour program on Raw, you start running out of time to do it effectively. And I'm not suggesting that every match should have a story because that's what, you know, the trolls are going to come out with, you know, after they hear this. Not every match can have a story because you don't have the time. Right. To dedicate to it. So you're going to have

some, I'm calling it filler for lack of a better term right now because I can't think of it, but you're going to have matches that are designed really just to expose a talent, to try to get a talent, a little more equity, a little more value to the audience, a little more experience perhaps, but they're not all going to have that well-crafted, disciplined arc because you don't have the time. And I think AEW is probably experiencing that, you know, Tony came out and said, I'm not going to make the same mistakes.

And Eric Bischoff did, well, dude, yeah, you are. And then some, by the way. Well, the thing, I agree with that. I just find it interesting how Meltzer, once the wheels are starting to fall off of AEW, he's kind of covering his ass by pointing out flaws. But in the meantime, he's been nothing but an. advocate for them um while calling himself a journalist a lot of people excuses for every aspect

of their failures and they're not failures but lack of progress a lot of folks have a theory that his um the way he's covered them has changed since brawl out i haven't done enough investigating myself to really co-sign that but it does feel like there's a shift in his coverage of a w and you know you said something a few minutes ago about about how, you know, Dave was saying, hey, you just got to help some more guys get over. Well, how do you get somebody over? And I think the answer is pretty clear, television time. You know, you take a look at who is the quote unquote most over in AW?

It's MJF. He's also getting some of the most screen time. I'm not saying just one individual segment, but I'm saying threads throughout a show. I mean, it's not lost on me. John St. was on T every single show 14 years therefore John Sina even when he's not actively wrestling

anymore is still in the top 10 and it's not like when you had Stone Cold on the show Stone Cold will just come out for his one segment now there's going to be a thread he's going to open with the promo there's going to be some backstage skits and he's going to do a run in and then he's going to have a match but you don't have that

you don't have a you have a finite amount of TV time but unfortunately it feels like you have an infinite roster at times so you can't can't make everyone happy. So instead of everyone being able to get that MJF or Hulk Hogan treatment, take a look at the number of segments Hulk Hogan was in way back when Nitro was at its peak. And people could be critical of that from a political standpoint and say, oh, he should

be sharing the spotlight? Should he? Because. Really? Yeah. Because dilute your show. Well, my point was, you're doing the best that, I mean, I had a conversation this past weekend with somebody who was pretty frustrated, uh, with,

with WWE and in the way things have been going. And I'm like, well, this is as good as it's going to get. Like, objectively, if you step away from creative and you just take a look at the business as a whole, the business has never been stronger. Well, the same thing could be said when Hogan was on every other segment of Nitro. And people would be critical of that and say, oh, they should put Jericho in that

spot and Ray Mysterio and Eddie Guerrero and how about this? I agree those guys would have better, more competitive matches. However, would the same number of people be watching the show? Probably not. They weren't stars yet. And I understand it's sort of like chicken of the egg at times. But I was just fascinated with that observation from a UFC guy. It doesn't matter if we got 50 guys or 300, we can only have 10 that are over.

But kind of isn't that true even in your business, in the mortgage industry? It's true in every business. Any sales position? Yes. You know, 10% of the people are going to make 90% of the money. Yes. And it is the old 80-20 rule. How many actors and actresses are out there that have an amazing talent that we're never going to hear from?

Yeah. They're never going to hear from because he can't guarantee box office. Yeah. They can't, they can't mitigate the risk of making a 50 or 60 or $100 million movie or a television series. You're going to go with the known commodity because it's a business. And the top 10% of the actors and actresses out there are probably making 80 or 90% of the money as a result. and the same thing is true in wrestling you can't this is not a democracy this isn't an exercise in democracy it's an exercise in creating emotion and you do that with talent that has charisma and with storylines that will support it it's not just you know you said well you got to give more

tv time giving somebody tv time without yes the foundation of great story and character development actually will work against you. Because it's just TV time for the sake of TV timing, unless it's compelling and interesting and creates emotion, you're boring your audience. They're not going to react to it. You can go out and have all the fucking five-star matches you want to have. And if it's not creating emotion with the television audience and you're only satisfying that 10 or 15 or 20 percent, whatever it is of the Dave Meltzer Internet wrestling

community that values, you know, competitive matches. at the highest level, you're boring 90% of the audience in the process. And MJF is getting the time he deserves to the point where you're going to be careful. You don't overexpose him. You got to keep him special. That's where the art comes in. And it's how much is too much, how little is too little. It doesn't really matter as long as you have great creative supporting it.

And that's the problem. Now you add 300 people on top of it that are under. contract and they're all miserable in the beginning they're all happy they're getting their check in the mail every two weeks they're paying their bills are going on vacation putting money in the bank investing all things are all great financially but that's not the only reason i think that performers whether they be actors and actresses or musicians or stage actors they do it for the love of performing that's what draws them to it that's what makes them special and after a while you get tired of the money, it gets to be a little boring, you're used to it, your lifestyle

has accommodated it, but yet you still have that desire to perform that's not being satisfied. And that's where, you know, the frustration and the chatter, whether it be in WW or AEW or anywhere else, it's all the same, it's not exclusive to the, or AEW by any stretch, but that's where you have those conversations with people that are frustrated. And I try to tell people just, you know, I get calls a couple times a year from people looking for advice. What would you do? And my advice, especially in WWE, is be ready. Don't, don't let your head get you down.

Don't allow yourself to become frustrated and miserable and negative because, all it takes is one idea, L.A. Night. All it takes is one situation where somebody gets heard or for whatever reason, the story kind of flops, and they're looking for that next person, you know, and there's a lot of talent in WWE right now or probably in AED, well, for sure, in A&W, that are walking around frustrated and trying to kick their cat and all kinds of other stuff because they're mad at the world, and they don't know, man, they could get a phone call tomorrow and their whole world could change. Just be prepared for that phone call. Be prepared for that

opportunity. Don't let up on yourself. Keep working at it. Stay positive. Don't walk around open and showing the world how frustrated and disappointed you are and unmotivated you are because things are going your way in that moment. Maybe it's not been going your way for six months or a year, but you're still there. As long as you're still there, as long as you're still there you have an opportunity you just have to be ready for it are you saying some you're saying maybe it might not have been their day their week their month or even their year yeah yeah i'll be there for you and so will factor this holiday season you might be looking for nutrition to nutritious convenient meals to keep you energized as we go through all these jam-packed

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pancakes something for everybody they've also got cold pressed juices and shakes and smoothies but really it's about the lifestyle stuff right so if you're looking to drop some lbs the dietitian approved calorie smart options for you they're 550 calories or less our buddy double j he's rocking the protein plus meals there's 30 grams of protein or more per serving seriously this is better for you it's faster it's cheaper and it tastes better so why not hook it up with factor this november start eating well without all the hassle you're going to get fresh flavor pack meals delivered right to your door you slide the little carton off you pop some holes in the plastic at the top throw it in the microwave in two minutes you're eating i eat mine

right out of the carton it's fantastic head right now to factor meals dot com slash 83 weeks 50 use our code 83 weeks 50 you'll get 50% off that's code 83 weeks 50 at factormeals.com slash 83 weeks 50 to get 50% off man we've got so much more to talk about on current stuff but I feel like if we don't start our watch along soon Eric we're never going to get to it before we do should we explain what's behind me here and well listen I I enlisted some help from mrs. B and so on social media over the next couple of days you're going to see what I'm calling Eric Bischoff this is your life so stay tuned to 83 weeks on social media I'll post it on my social Eric will post it on his and maybe we'll do a little recap but you know with the

holidays right around the corner I got to using my genius in here and we are going to do something on social media we're calling Eric Bischoff this is your life so stay tuned to social media for that but right now get your peacock out it's season 5 episode 50 this is from uh no wait i'm on the wrong show look at me oh i'm so glad because i was having difficulty you know you guys had to help me find this i'm like wait a minute now yeah because we got you locked and loaded it's season five episode 44 uh what we're gonna be watching today is from november 17th 1997 uh yeah and i just gave you the wrong dog on code how about that so i hope you've got the right link because i do i do i don't i i do i hurry

I went to it and there was the drop-down box when I got to this season five. So I'm, I'm ready to go, brother, whenever you are. Yeah, before we clicked record today, Eric was like, I can't find it. And I said, just check your email. I'll send you a link. And then I went back to mine and I'm like, oh shit, did I send the wrong link? We're hooked up and ready to go. It's season five, episode 44.

That's season five, episode 44. This is the Brett screwed Brett Monday Nitro from November 17th, 1997. So to give you guys a reminder, we're. eight days removed from the Survivor Series. And this is also very much the era where Nitro is three hours and Raw is two hours. So Nitro's had a one hour jump here on Monday Night Raw. Eric, I'm locked and loaded, ready to go. Are you ready on your end?

I am indeed. Yes, sir. Just want to make sure my volume was off. So we don't get some Echo Jones here. Here we go. YouTube jail. Yeah, we don't want to do that. So it's season five.

episode 44 November 17th 1997 here we go in three two one play in over 100 countries in seven different languages to more than a half billion viewers each week the world wrestling federation the worldwide leader in sports entertainment What the hell was Hilsie just nail the referee a blatant shot! Now, the belly suplex! Here comes China! The referee is knocked out, and the... What a deep down?

Rogers restraining for the tap-out. First it was the hitman, then shot Michaels, and now Hilsley, and Michaels are a knockout. Not a tap-out. We've got, folks with... We'll see you next week. Good night, everybody! Our cameras kept recording as Commissioner Slaughter stopped the count,

and you wouldn't believe what happened. Wait a minute. Now they're shoving Slaughter around it. Slaughter's not going to take it anymore. Wait a minute. Michaels is not even in this match. Michaels getting pinned by Sambroch and the WWF champion wasn't even in the match. It was Hilsley and Shamrock.

Wait a minute. Sergeant Slaughter counts out Sean Michael. and gives the match to the Ken Shamrock. This can't happen as they are. It's not an official victory. Michael's wasn't even in the match. Sean Michaels can't believe it. Sean Michaels knows that he can be beat by Ken Shamrock,

the world's most dangerous men. So Eric, that's a recap from the prior week. We're going to do the hot open here. With 4 imprint, finding the right promo products has never been easier. You get free samples. expert help and art assistants to ensure your logo looks great. Four Imprint offers thousands of options to choose from, including summer ready gear, brand and apparel, drinkwear, outdoor, and more. Your order will be packed with care, delivered on time, and backed by their 360-degree guarantee.

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Don't wait, text iHeart to 50505 today and take the first step toward protecting your savings. Let's take a while. Let's listen to this. I love this feel. Yeah! it's got kind of an adventure abroad yeah so david sahati put that opening package together we actually broke it down on the insiders over on ad free shows.com so be sure to check

out our interview with david sahati where we talk about the making of and the creation of that opening video and that is a far cry from the way monday night raw used to open were very much headed down towards this attitude era stone cold is getting over like rovers you see with the signs in the crowd i know you and i love that iconic classic nitro entrance but that's a pretty badass entrance right there no no it really really is a lot of energy um it's just it's raw it has a raw feeling to it it's pretty pretty phenomenal and here he comes We talked about how you make stars and I even said, hey, you start the show with Stone Cold Steve Austin and what do you know, here he is. We're still a handful of months before he became the man.

As you may recall, he's the intercontinental champion having won that strap at Survivor Series. I'm sorry, at SummerSlam, but he got dumped on his head. He's been hurt ever since. So he got actually moreover through this process. giving stone cold stunners to the likes of Sergeant Slaughter and Jim Ross, but of course most famously in September, Vince McMahon. He's still the intercontinental champion here, going to be embroiled in a bit of a feud with the rock. But what we're building towards is in your house Degeneration X. And you can tell in the title picture, it's going to be

Ken Shamrock challenging the world champion Sean Michaels. We're just eight days removed from the Montreal screw job. And I think a lot of folks assumed the next natural opponent for Sean Michaels would be Owen Hart. And we know Owen winds up getting re-signed. He gets a bump. He gets a big new contract. And he debuts as the Black Heart and briefly has a bit of a skirmish with Sean Michaels in December. But very quickly, Sean moves on to the Undertaker in January. So no real main event opportunity there of any substance for Owen Hart. But Ken Shamrock, I felt like in 1998, was going to be one of the same. the tippy type guys. I thought he would have been an incredible opponent for Stone Cold

Steve Austin because I think Stone Cold comes across as so real and so authentic. And so does Ken Shamrock. Was Ken Shamrock ever on your radar for WCW? Not for WCW. He was certainly on my radar. I enjoyed watching them in WWE, but for all the reasons that you pointed out early on by 1997, I wasn't looking for any more top talent. Yeah. More than I could manage. again going back to what we talked about as the show opened up so we certainly well aware of him enjoyed his work I loved his believability his credibility obviously with his MMA background but still he was able to work he wasn't just an MMA guy definitely on my radar but not not someone that I was hoping to see end up in WCW we see the rock here he's taking over or

trying to take over rather as the uh the leader if you will of the nation of domination and uh you see the rest of the crew coming down um this era of of the monday night war 1997 we'll call it the winter you know q4 of 1997 i mean you're headed towards the biggest pay-per-view in wcd history. You know, Sting and Hulk Hogan. I know that when this, when you first kicked off Nitro, you were paying really close attention to what WWE was doing and would even go on the air and give away their taped show results. At this point, you're firmly in the lead. I mean, you have just been dominating for so long at this point. Have you pulled the foot off the gas as far as just keeping up with WWE and are now focusing more on your own product because

you're so far ahead or what i i think so you know in the beginning giving away their finishes starting two minutes or so before they started and you know doing the overruns which had never been done before there was a lot of stunts that i kind of created in the beginning to get the audience's attention to stir the pot create some controversy because you know we know how that works but by this time 1997 i wasn't wasn't relying on those thoughts nearly as much as I was in the very beginning because it wasn't necessary any longer and I don't know that I consciously said I got to focus more on my own product but it just evolved that way we should mention that nitro opens up with a clean

shaven Rick Rout the NW are going to open the show Rick Rood's going to be appearing there and you're going to introduce him and Dave Meltzer would write before getting into storyline matters. Rude stated that quote, Sean Michaels never beat Brett Hart. Vince McMahon told the referee to ring the bell and rob Brett Hart of the title, end quote. And Meltzer says,

Rude, in the truest time honored tradition of the business, a day or two after debuting with the WWF on August 4th in Atlantic City. and appearing without a sign without signing a contract called bischoff up and the two opened dialogue whether they agreed at that point or held it off for the opportune moment or whether rude or one of the very few wbf television personalities to have not signed a contract contacted bischoff again this past week figuring the timing would never be so perfect for his leverage is unknown he was among the group really upset with how mcmand handled things although it would probably be incorrect to describe this as anything more than a monetary deal

that had been in some form in the works for three months. So let's talk about that. Had you had a preliminary conversation with Rude before or how does this appearance come to be? Again, Dave Meltzer, absolutely wrong. There was no preliminary conversation. It wasn't about Rick Rude. leverage. I hadn't spoken to Rick Rood and I don't know how long until the night that all the things went down in Montreal. So everything that Dave said is bullshit. All of it. It's a lie.

He made it up in his head to try to sound like he had some insight information or some insight as to what could possibly be. And he was absolutely 1,000 percent phony and wrong. Here's what happened. I was at home. I wasn't even watching the pay-per-view from Montreal. Sunday night, I'm on my couch. I don't know what I was watching. Just finished dinner, relaxing,

thinking about what I'm going to do the next day. My phone rings. It's like, whoa, wait a minute. Sunday night, who's calling me? I didn't recognize the number. I picked up the phone. It was Rick Rood. He proceeded to, and this was like minutes after everything went down.

Rick Rood called me, and he was, when I say pissed, he was that quiet, pissed. He wasn't like, you won't believe what I just, you're not going to believe what just happened. They just screwed red, hard. It wasn't that. It was a much more deliberate but intense Rick Rude. And keep in mind, I had known Rick since, God, a couple years out of high school. It's not like we didn't know each other pretty well.

We had a lot of mutual friends before I ever got into wrestling. We had a lot of mutual friends. I knew Rick before I got into the business. So we had a pretty good relationship already. At least the foundation for one. We didn't hang out together or anything like that. But we had a good relationship. And Rick proceeded to tell me what he just saw.

and he was livid with Vince McMahon. He was livid with the entire situation. And he just flat out asked me, have you got any room? I said, sure, I'll make room for you, Rick. Keep in mind, Rick couldn't wrestle. Rick was under a Lloyd's of London policy, which is why you saw him in the ring with the beard,

but he didn't get physical. He couldn't. But I knew Rick. I'd worked with Rick in WCW. I said, I've known Rick for a long time. I'll find a way to make a guy like Rick Rood work into the system. We had that conversation. It was nothing more than a result of what happened in Montreal.

And we cut the deal. We may have cut the deal over the phone. I don't even recall. I think we cut the deal over the phone. I just sent him a contract. Had my attorneys and send him a contract. But yeah, it was quick and easy. But there was no preliminary.

It wasn't planned months in advance. all the bullshit that Dave wrote about was absolutely like so much of the other bullshit that he writes about without any foundation at all. Had you not spoken to Rick since he had been on WWF TV at all? No. Okay. Nope. When you,

um, you guys are going to pull off a pretty cool moment here where we get to see him on both shows the same day knowing that you're the guy who used to give the finishes away for raw. That's right up. rally now yeah absolutely who has the idea about the facial hair adjustment do you recall me yep you just want to make it very apparent that's a tape show yeah it was kind of like rubbed their nose in it yeah you know just remind everybody yeah their tape i'm live yes is that one of your uh

proudest moments just in the monday night war i mean just in terms of You know, like I know once by the time, hey, man, we'll debut and we'll have Lex Lugar and they won't know. And then we'll have their women's champion come over and drop the tie. I mean, like, so you've had a few of these little, oh, yeah, I'm getting under their skin now. And I love that about you. Is, does this make the list? Oh, it's on the list, but certainly not the greatest, you know. And I think, I mean, it's good, it was stuff to beat the Lex Lugar moment.

Yeah. Not only because it was so well executed. Nobody found out. Everybody in WWE thought he was still under contract. And I just knew that that was going to be effective. So that to me is the highlight of the kind of stunts that I pulled. But the Rick Roos showing up on our show was definitely right up there, but just not the biggest moment.

And the thing with Lugers has set the tone. It subconsciously and probably consciously among some of the audience just sent the message to everybody that you cannot afford to know. miss an episode of nitrope because you don't know what's going to happen yeah you just don't know and you want to be there and experience it live you don't want to hear about it the next day and go shit should have been watching it damn it we're watching a uh an old episode of monday nitro here or i'm sorry monday raw here and we've see uh brian christopher who was seated out at the desk doing color commentary taking his dad spot if you will alongside jim cornet and um ross

because in the ring, it's Jerry Lawler wrestling Mark Mero. Mark Mero, of course, is managed by Sable. And when Mark Mero first comes out to the ring, again, he's no longer the Johnny B. Bag character. He's marvelous Mark Mero, and he's wrestling in boxing trunks. And he had a little confrontation with Butterbean, who's in the crowd. And of course, we know that we're going to do brawl for all in 1998. And two WrestleMania from now, we're even going to see Butterbean,

just really lay waste to bark gun. But this is one of the first times we would see Butterbean on WWE programming. And you see they're really making Sable as a focal point here. I mean, the match is almost background to what's happening on the outside with Sable. What was it about the way they presented Sable that just resonated with the audience so well? Well, there's the obvious. Is that it? Is that it?

really we all know that stuff sells yes um sells itself actually yes you don't have to talk it up too much no it's just right there in your face yeah figuratively and sometimes literally as we've seen on monday night raw back in that era you know i don't think you know sable didn't do that much she wasn't that integral you know she didn't carry a lot of dialogue she didn't off and get too physical, but she was, I mean, she was just a presence. I mean, we just saw, you know, she reached in there and wrapped us, what is it, a belt or whatever it is, around Jerry's neck and pulled him off. It looked pretty lame. So it wasn't anything she did physically. It's how she appeared, um, that did the trick for her. Predominantly male

audience, 18 to 34. It worked. You kind of. forget that Mark Mero's finishing move was the T.O. And then when you see it back, you're like, wow, Brock Lesnar stole his wife and his finish. Miro looks good here. Dude, I love this version of Mark Morrow. Yes. He's got a much, much better look that he did with the longer hair. Butterbean, you know, I used Butterbean and Hulk Hogan Celebrity Championship wrestling over on CMT back in the day. Oh, wow. What a great guy. I mean, Martin Mero looks like an action figure right here. It's a, It's amazing to me that this version of Mark Merrow didn't connect more.

I know he's playing a heel, but this guy is as legit badass as it gets. And I know he was doing a little cosplay as little Richard there for a little while. But this version of him, by the way, you can really see their badgering sable here. They're going to take a break. You know what? Let's go ahead and pause right now. We're at 1723. I'm going to stop it down at 1720, 1730.

This is segment one. of Brett screwed Brett. And before we get into that, I need to give everybody a heads up. I think I've told this story here before on the show. But my daughter came to me looking for last minute tickets. She forgot there was some big concert in town and our new amphitheater in town called the Orion.

I thought, well, hey, I got friends in radio. I hit up Cassio to see if we could get some comp, something like that. It was to no avail. It was the fastest sellout in history. My daughter found a ticket reselling website that was literally with her back against the concrete, the last row, the worst seat in the house,

you're at the very tippy top of the arena. The tickets were $172 a pop. For $200, I got her front row center, all thanks to Game Time. I don't think I can give you a much better testimonial than that. I knew I could trust GameTime because they had last minute deals on same-day events. So, yeah, let me recap.

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my view will be. Okay, I'm in. I like that. Not only that, but talk about peace of mind. The game time guarantee means you always get the best price. You see, if you find tickets in the same section in row for less money, game time will credit you 110% of the difference. I can't recommend this enough. It is the place to find last minute seats. So take the guesswork out of buying tickets with GameTime. Download the GameTime app, create an account, and use our code Weeks, and you'll get $20 off your first purchase. Terms apply. Again, create an account and redeem the code Weeks, that's W-E-E-E-K-S, for $20 off. Download game time today. Last-minute tickets, lowest price, guaranteed.

Now, Eric, I guess I should probably rewind just a little bit here. I'm going to go to 17 minutes and 20 seconds. I know that you paused a little bit after that because I didn't realize we were going right to the Brett Screwed Brett thing. We'll talk a little bit more about Rick Ruth. and Sable on the other side of this, but I want us to listen to the whole thing because this is important context for the character building of Mr. McMahon. And we know the name of this very podcast is 83 weeks because Eric Bischoff didn't beat Vince McMahon one time.

He beat him 83 times in a row. He beat it a lot more than 83 times, boys and girls, but 83 times in a row. And what winds up breaking that streak is when Vince McMahon becomes Mr. McMahon and agrees to an in-ring match with Stone-Quil. called Steve Austin, and that breaks the streak. But that is about six months from now. So this is sort of the seeds of what is going to become the Mr. McMahon character.

So I'm going to track the audio, starting at 17 minutes and 20 seconds. Again, we're on season 5, episode 44. This went down on November 17th, 1997. We're going to see a sit down between Vince McMahon and Jim Ross. We're at 17 minutes and 20 seconds. Here we go. And three, two, one, play. J.R. Ask some questions.

Like this one. Let's cut right to the chase. Seven days ago at the Survivor Series. Did you or did you not screw Brett Hart? How about that for a little bumper action? And then they went to a commercial, a great commercial. I'll track the commercial. But I just love that cliffhanger before the promo.

That was well done. I'm six foot 10. 328 pounds. I was a consensus all-American. I played football for the Dallas Cowboys. My jersey was retired at Florida State. I was the ultimate fighting champion. When you step through those ropes, bad things do happen.

Had over 200 stidges. I've suffered a dozen concussions. I've broken bones. I've separated shoulders. Damn hair broke my neck. I've blown out knees. But I've still got up. This is who I am.

This is what I do. I'm not really an athlete. This isn't real. Try a lacing my boots. Another little David Sahati special there, promoting the brand. And when we come back, we see Davy Boy Smith opening up the door here for Brad Hart at Survivor Series. Let's track it. Apparently already closed the door on his WWF career.

I've given my 30-day notice with WWF. And right now I'm under contractual review with both the WCWF. in the WWF. I'm leaning strongly towards going one way. In the end, his actions spoke volumes. Let's cut right to the chase. Seven days ago at the Survivor Series, did you or did you not screw Brett Hart? Some would say I screwed Brett Hart. Brett Hart would definitely tell you, I screw.

I look at it from a different standpoint. I'll look at it from a standpoint of the referee did not screw Brett Hart. Sean Michael certainly did not screw Brett Hart. Nor that Vince McMahon screwed Brett Hart. I truly believe that Brett Hart screwed Brett Hart. And he can look in the mirror and know that. I'm sharing some parts of the country right now, there's a collective groan that you're not accepting responsibility

that you orchestrated the situation and the fact that people are not people are not going to understand what you mean by Brett Hart, screwed Brett Hart. So what do you mean by that? Well, I will certainly take responsibility for any decision I've ever made. I've never had a problem doing that. Not that all of my decisions are accurate, they're not. But when I make a bad decision, I'm not above saying I'm sorry and trying to do the best about it that I can. Hopefully the batting average is pretty good.

I make more good decisions than I do bad decisions. And as far as screwing Brett Hart is concerned, there's a time-honored tradition in the rustling business that when someone is leaving, that they show the right amount of respect to the WWF superstars in this case who helped make you that superstar, that you show the proper respect to the organization that helped you become who you are today. It's a time-honored tradition, and Brett Hart didn't want to honor that tradition. And that's something I would have never, ever expected from Brett, because he is known somewhat as a traditionalist in this business. It would have never crossed my mind that Brett would not have wanted to show the right amount of respect to the superstars who helped make him and the organization who helped make him what he is today.

Nonetheless, that was Brett's decision. Brett screwed Brett. Some folks along the Internet know that in 1996, Brett signed a 20-year contract with the WWF. Then I'm sure there are some at home now. Some folks are saying, well, how could Brett Hart be, he's got 18 years left in a contract? How can he leave? Did Brett Hart ask you to leave the WWF or did you ask him to leave the WWF? This was a joint decision, and it vacillated somewhat as well when we were making the decision.

It was a joint decision from both Brett and me. And ultimately what happened was that the two of us got together and orchestrated the opportunity for Ted Turner's wrestling organization to, quote, steal Brett. I felt that for business reasons, if Brett Hart and the salary were paying him was not justified. And Brett felt that for creative reasons, and in fact that he had become sort of second banana in his own mind to Sean Michaels, who had, quote, stolen his spot. So for financial reasons on my part and creative reasons on Brett Hart's part, the two of us got together and decided, okay, let's do the very best we can for you, Brett. So the two of us orchestrated Brett Hart receiving a three-year deal in which he has paid $3 million a year, which I believe is the richest deal in all of professional rustling. And that's working 125 days a year.

So I felt from a personal standpoint that if Brett wasn't a great investment any longer for the WWF, although I really didn't want him to go. But nonetheless, the least I could do for Brett is to help him, help himself. And I told Brett, if, in fact, you do get this deal from Turner, I'm going to be the very first person personally to congratulate you. And I was. From a business standpoint, I didn't really want to lose Brett.

He wasn't paying off from a financial standpoint, but nonetheless, I really didn't want to lose it. Bruce Brett. Certainly the bitterness of the loss at the Survivor Series could never be more prevalent. He stands in the ring and he spits in your face. Shortly thereafter, he is destroying WWF television equipment. Were you prepared for what happened after the match? I was disappointed in Brett when he hit me.

me. Very disappointed. I sustained a concussion as a result of it with the vision problems to this day. I'll get over it. And I didn't think it was the right thing to do. Brett seems to be crowing about that that I've read where, you know, he feels proud of striking me. And it wasn't a question of a confrontation, because even at 52 years old, I dare say that perhaps things would have been a little different if there were a confrontation. I allowed Brett to strike me. I had hoped that he wouldn't. I'd hoped that we could sit down and try and work things out as gentlemen.

That's what I'd really hoped for, but that's not what happened. Have you considered pressing charges or pursuing legal remedies for that situation in his locker room? I have considered it. I think those options are still available. I'm not pursuing it at the moment. And I guess maybe it all depends on Brett as to whether or not I do. If you were only a storywriter, and the Survivor series was the final chapter in the life story of Brett Hart, the W.W. W.F. years, how would you have preferred to write the final chapter? As a storyteller, I would have hoped that Brett's story would be a dramatic one. I would hope that Brett's story would be one that would give him dignity, that would give him the poise

to state that I was maybe the greatest WWF superstar ever in terms of his departure. And one way of being able to give back to the company, being able to give back to those individuals, those superstars who helped you achieve the level of success that you have. When you know that you're leaving in a time-honored tradition, might have been, for argument's sake,

that after the most grueling match that Brett ever had in his life, that Brett was pinned. But in that small moment of defeat, Brett would have stood straight up and shown the whole world what a true champion, both as a human being and a wrestling persona. He really is. And if I had been Brett, if I were writing the story, I can see Brett after a a one, two, three simply saying, okay, to his opponent, you got the best of me. I want to congratulate you. I want to stick my hand out and congratulate you. And furthermore, I want

everyone in the whole locker room to watch my match so that I can show for those who follow in my footsteps the way in a time-honored tradition this is to be done, to show every individual individual, every secretary, everyone in Titan sports, the World Wrestling Federation, who counts on me to do the right thing, that I was there, that I was a superstar, maybe the greatest of ever, and I went out the way a true champion would go out. Are you able to step back and objectively look at this thing and evaluate your friend, your perhaps former friend, Brett Hart, the human being, and have sympathy for this man? Sympathy. I have no sympathy for Brett whatsoever. None. I have no sympathy for someone

who was supposed to be a rustling traditionalist, not doing the right thing for the business that made him, not doing the right thing for the fans and the performers and the organization who helped make him what he is today. Brett made a very, very sense. selfish decision. Brett's going to have to live with that for the rest of his life. Brett screwed Brett. I have no sympathy whatsoever for Brett. So let's pause at 2831. So we'll pause right there. I want to get your reaction from that. There's a lot to unpack there. Before we do, though, I think we can all agree a lot of this was around money. I mean, the only way Brett winds up getting out of that contract is when Vince comes to him in September

and says, I can't afford your contract, see if you can get your deal back with Turner. And I wish we could rewind and go back to September of 97 and I would just be like, Hey, Vince, did you ever sign up for a subscription and forget about it? You're probably pissing your money away. Rocket money can help you. And maybe we can save you enough money to keep the hitman around here. And here's the reality. We all do this. We all sign up for something. It's a free trial or there's one show on this app we want to watch. And man, that has been my circumstance. I have had more than one of these pop up that surprised me. Both the wife and I signed up to watch television together for the same doggone thing. She was paying for it. I was paying for it. We're only using one account. Even a fight. I signed up for a zone to buy a fight. I didn't need to keep. paying that every month? I kind of forgot about it. Rocket money found that and a whole lot more and now I'm able to save that money each and every month. Let me explain. Rocket Money is a personal

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you a notification when you've reached your spending limits. I'm glad my wife gets those notifications now. With over 5 million users and counting Rocket Money has helped save its customers an average of $720 a year and a billion dollars in total savings so far. Stop wasting money on things you don't use. Cancel your unwanted subscriptions and manage your money the easy way by going to RocketMoney.com slash 83 weeks. That's rocketmoney.com slash 83 weeks. rocketmoney.com slash 83 weeks. So Eric, let's get back with the playback here. I'm at 28 minutes and 31 seconds.

We see the lowest for a week where I was coming to the ring. I'll track it just for a minute so you know we're listening and then we'll lay out and talk about Vince McMahon, here we go, 2831 in three, two, one play. Gentlemen to WWF Raw, Loss of the week was on the right of the ring. And don't forget, ladies and gentlemen, in the war zone later tonight. We will have part two of our very candid interview with Ms. McMan. So part two still coming up. But is that the first time you sat down and watched that whole part one?

Absolutely is. What did you think? First of all, I agree with Vince. The unfortunate part of this whole story was that Vince was that Vince was convinced that I was going to somehow convinced Brett Hart to bring the belt over to WCW and drop the WC or dropped the WWF belt into trash, just like I had done with Medusa. I was going to say,

where would he get such a crazy idea? Yeah, I know I don't blame him for having that concern. Yeah. What Vince didn't know was as a result of the lawsuit, the Scott Hall, Kevin Nash lawsuit, which was still ongoing at that point in time,

there were so many limitations on what I could do and couldn't do with regard to WWF trademarks, copyrights, all that. So I was, I was hand, I was hogtied and handcuffed in terms of that. There was no way I could have done it, but Vince couldn't have known that.

Right. Right. My, my reputation preceded me. Sure. It wasn't going to happen. I had, when Brett and I talked about the situation,

going into Montreal, Brett was concerned that Vince was going to ask, him to drop the belt of Montreal. And I said, well, Brett, it doesn't matter. You're Brett heart. Yes. You're not Brett Hart with a WWF belt and some nobody without it. You're Brett freaking hard. Yes. It doesn't matter at all to me. And I encouraged him to just do business. Not because I was as concerned about the time on her tradition as man apparently was because he mentioned that I think four times in that interview. Yeah. That wasn't it. It's just that wasn't an issue for me. I knew, number one, I couldn't do anything with the belt, even if I wanted

to. Legal wouldn't let me. Turner Legal would not let me. It was not an, and I knew that going in. It was not an issue. And in my heart, it just didn't matter whether he did the job or not. Brett, and here's where Brett screwed Brett. I don't even think it was about dropping a belt. It was drop into belt in Montreal because Brett was convinced that he was a Canadian hero. of such significant magnitude that it would have a devastating impact on who I don't know other than Brett because Brett's

vision of himself as the Canadian hero was going to be compromised if he did the job in Montreal which I think is silly and I as I listened to that interview and look this can be as convincing as anybody I've ever met yes he is amazing when he wants to be. And there was a little bit of an unusual charm in Vince Wickman

in that sit down. But I agree with him. Brett should have done what Brett should have done in Montreal. And as JR asked, you know, Vince, you know, as a storyteller, how would you have presented it? I think listening to that for the very first time would have that's something that I would have been excited about seeing and it would have been the right way for Brett for his character and for his legions of Canadian fans it would have been the right thing to do it just wasn't the right thing to do for Brett's ego at that point in time and that's what it was really all about you know the other thing I noticed you know Vince talking about the situation where Vince you know offered him a 20 year contract and guaranteed him a lot of money

and woke up one day and went, I can't afford it because I'm getting my ass kicked by WCW and have been for the last year and a half. When he had to get out of the contract, he made it sound like we orchestrated. There was no orchestration. Vince told Brett that he couldn't afford him any longer. Brett called me and I did a deal.

And the amount of money that I paid him had nothing to do with where WWE or WWF was at at that time. I knew what my budget. it was. I knew what I was facing with the addition of another show in prime time on Turner. So I had three hours of Nitro on Monday and I had two hours coming my way on Thursday. I knew I needed somebody to be the face of, of that show, Thunder. And I was well within my budget to offer the Brett to offer Brett. Well, I offered him.

It wasn't a stretch. Didn't have to ask anybody's permission. they didn't have to run it up the flagpole. It's an easy deal for me to make, which sounds crazy now at this point. But yeah, you could see how a lot of people are going to be upset with what you just said about Brett, though, right? I'm sorry. Say that again.

You broke up a little bit. I'm just saying if this was anybody else saying what you said about Brett, I think people would be more inclined to just sort of go along to get along. But when you say it. respectfully people say well he had creative control and if anybody knows who had creative control brett heart it didn't have creative control yes he did did he have meaningful consultation or did he have creative control it was said that he had creative control and that's wrong it's wrong i got to i want to see that contract there's only one person and

And if I'm wrong, please, I beg somebody to show me that I'm wrong because I don't want to repeat something that's wrong. I can't believe you've never heard that before. That's what this issue has always been about, is that? It's bullshit. Well, Brett had creative control. Why is he bitching about all the creative that he went along with? What the fuck?

It's either, it's either yin or yang, dude. No, hang on. I'm talking about. You come out and claim that you have creative control and then bitch about the creative. He didn't bitch about the creative. He bitched about them. doing the switch roo they agreed to a finish and then that's not what they did well whoa whoa okay i'm off track so brett had creative control in wwee yes okay i'm sorry i'm sorry i thought

what the hell all right oh okay all right he may have had it i don't know he had it he had it he had and and they changed the finish on him and you're saying oh he should have went along he should have did business he should have though because but hang on now eric you gave creative control to Hulk Hogan, and he didn't always do what was best for business and what you told him to do. So how can you come on here and say, Brett should have did it, but it's okay that Hogan didn't? We're going to, we're going to, we're going to dig something up that I was that I hoped would have been buried a long time ago. Look, Hulk Hogan never made a decision. I'm going to set Starcate aside for a minute because we're going to come back to that.

Yes, that's the one we're talking about. That's what you're getting at. Yes, I am. So I'm going to set that off to the side. And everything else that Hulk Hogan did while he was in WCW, while he had creative control, was in the best interest of WCW, not in the best interest of Hulk Hogan. He never pulled the creative control card one time.

From 1994 to 1997, I guess, he never pulled that card out of his wallet once. not once never threatened it never reached in his back pocket like he was going to pull it there was only one time that it became a real issue and that was starcate and you can have fun with the tan no tan all you want yeah there was a reason why Hulk made that call and there was a reason why i couldn't disagree with him and i'm going to let him go with that. You can blame it on the tan because I did say that. He didn't look. Oh, no, no. Listen. But I, we're talking about Sting. There was a reason that I couldn't argue with.

That wasn't self-serving. I know the audience thinks of it that way because the audience is basically they're watching in their homes. They don't know what's going on behind the scenes. They don't know the state of mind of certain individuals at certain points in time. They weren't there. I didn't like the decision. I tried everything I could to overcome the challenge, but I couldn't. But that was not selfish. It was not selfish on the part of Hulk Hogan.

It was his best judgment, and he could have been wrong. And it ultimately, it did create a problem for WC. For me, we're still talking about it today, for crying out loud, it was an issue. It was really bad for me because I had spent almost a year and a half building this arc and building it more in each and every week, the intensity, the interest, the engagement within that arc for 18 solid months continued to grow and to not be able to pay it off. It was devastating, but I understood why he made the call. That was the only time.

So I can be critical, I think. This was not a decision that Brett made for the betterment of WWE. It was a decision. In his own words, he told me it wasn't. He wanted to do it in Pennsylvania or somewhere on New Jersey or something. He didn't want to do it in Montreal because, he was a Canadian hero. Sorry.

I don't know, man. It feels like to me it's kind of the same thing, what Brett did and what Hogan did. And I think there's even more evidence of that when you take a look at Bash at the Beach 2000. And I know that became a legal issue, but Hogan didn't like the creative that was done because it wasn't what he agreed on. And he took his ball and he went home. It was like Brett Hart and Hulk Hogan have a whole lot in common. dude dude are you wait a minute are you talking about the bash of the beach for hawk and i got in a limo and took off together yeah and hogan never came back that was part of a storyline

and he never came back bud that we agreed to and we didn't come back he didn't come back because vince rousseau went off script and went into business for himself just like vince mcman did although vince rousseau didn't have the right to do that we had to agree Vince mcman didn't have the right to do that. He did have the right. He didn't have the right. He didn't have the right to. We know that for sure. We know that for sure. Absolutely know that for sure. We absolutely know that for sure. It's been well established for decades. Just saying, I got more in common than you would admit. By the way, we're watching a really fun episode of Monday Night Raw. We just saw Sunny out here looking his roll tight as roll tight as roll tight and gets acting as a special guest referee for a lot of

little people and then we had cane come out and destroy all the little people and the headbangers and now before we go to a break we're doing another tease with Vince McMahon sitting down with Jim Ross and of course we've got DX coming up next now take a look on the left there you see full beard recruit this is going to be fun I can't believe this is the first time we've ever watched this together but this is still the early days of the Kane character As a reminder, he debuted in October. Here we are in November.

I mean, he's only been here for a month and change at this point. Debuting at In Your House Bad Blood in October and now laying waste. Of course, he started this year as a fake diesel. So Glenn Jacobs is enjoying the best third act in the history of WWE. My God. Think about that storyline arc there. Evil dentist, fake diesel, Kane. That's not a storyline arc.

That's just shifting gears, man. I mean, well, I didn't work. Let's try that. Well, I didn't work. Let's try that.

That's not a story. That's an AEW storyline, but that's not a storyline. In the story of Glenn Jacobs life, that's about the best third act anybody could have ever hoped for. Yeah, there's no doubt about that. We,

uh, yeah, he's the mayor in Knox County. So listen, we know Rick Rood's feelings on the Montreal screw job. I know that you guys didn't necessarily end things. um on the best possible terms before i know he got the lloyd's a london thing but i know he was kind of a pain in the ass to deal with and you went out to the trunk with him to get the belt once

and there was the gun in the trunk and the whole deal oh that was yeah that was long before that that was yeah years years before but the thing that really shocked me most about this appearance i guess because what we're going to see is something pretty cool i mean the same guy appearing on both shows at the same time wearing different facial hair. Were you surprised that Vince McMahon was this lax about letting a guy on his TV without being under contract? I mean, we, we are like two years removed from the whole Lex Lugar thing. And he's done it again.

That is weird because I mean, WWE has always been buttoned up really, really tight. Yes. And it's not even so much about, well, we want to have this guy to contract before we put them on TV because like, God, we want to own them and control them and make money off them all that. That's part of it. And that part of it surprises me as well. But there's also a legal exposure there. You know, you got somebody out there performing and he or she gets hurt on your show and there's no agreement that covers certain situations and potential legal considerations.

You're kind of exposing yourself legally as a company to have somebody out. there with absolutely no contract that's bizarre and and even more so because it's wwee because they had always from day one been buttoned up so tight i find that pretty interesting it is we see the classic dx entrance here with cutaways to girls dancing and the graphics and of course coming down the ramp it's john michael's triple h and china all introduced by Rick Rood sporting a beard. What do you think of this DX entrance, all the flashes and cutaways and?

It was too much. Yeah. I think, yeah, it's what is that you can watch certain things on television and go into kind of a weird mental state as a result of it. It's a form of torture actually. But,

um, yeah, I think that there's a form of torture that happens every, Monday night. Sorry. It's almost seizure-inducing. Yeah, yeah, yeah. But I like the idea. I mean, I get the idea. It was probably David Sahadhi's idea. Speaking of David Sahadi, do you know he's got a new book out? He's got a great book out. And we should talk about it.

Let's talk about that book. My dad, my dying son. It's available on Amazon. Check it out. David is a really creative guy. Enjoyed working with David for a long time. in TNA just a fun guy to be around always up always positive always got something good to say even under pressure he's a good dude and he was so close to his dad so very close to his and as much as david sehati is a wrestling television icon his dad was a television icon before him so their story is really really special and uh i've developed some friends uh in the television universe and boy they all speak about his dad with such high regard so check it out his book david's hotty's book is available now on

amazon let's track a little bit of uh sean michael's here of his family so there's only one thing really left for the heartbreak kid the world wrestling federation champion the european champion to do and that is start beating the hell out of breadhart's friends and if that's you, Ken Shamrock, that is exactly what is going to happen. Fact Triple H, I believe you have some words to say. So this is their sort of NWO promo time, if you will.

We also saw earlier the Loz Periquas. They were actually wrestling the New Age Outlaws, but before they're really the New Age Outlaws. Meanwhile, while that was happening, Perry Saturn was retaining the TV title against Scotty Riggs over on Nitro during the video package of Ken Shamrock you know we were sort of hyping him up as the next challenger for Sean Michaels then we got that minnie's match with with Sunny and then the big cane introduction we start hour two and now here we are with the X Rick Rood kicking us off

here and now they're bringing down Sergeant Slaughter and they're going to beat him up here burying him under some toilet paper they're going to make it out to look like an x and melzer would say rude was in the segment which wasn't edited out and in commentary which was done live you could tell they were kind of joking about it as cornet said rude was the typical insurance salesman when it comes time to collect on the policy he's gone to tahiti of course that phrase is because sean has consistently been referring to rick rude as his insurance policy you got to think though that Jim Ross who's head of talent relations at the time and certainly Vince McMahon were freaking out when this happened but again as we pointed

out it's not the first time it happened it happened with Lex Lugar happened again with Medusa and now it's happening here with recruit and it would even happen again with Jeff Jarrett I like that you were always you know sort of punching up at the WWF and looking for these opportunities. It was effective until it wasn't until I asked Tony Chavani to make fun of rock and mankind and everybody switched over to watch that and the rest is history, which by the way, Mick will tell you every single time if you bring it up. He loves telling it to me every time I see him.

Somewhere in the conversation, lightheartedly as it may be, I am. damn takes another shot well deserved though well deserved meanwhile while we're watching this over on nitro the steiners and ted de biaz are getting jumped by the n w o kirk hennings defending his u.s title against lex luger and um yeah i mean it's a fun back and forth show where we've already seen recruit without the facial hair uh pretty fun hey you know what we've got a fun question from adam arpin here other than helping sabotage a boat why didn't wcd utilize little people more miniature nasty boys could have been fun of course we did see mini vader many mankind and all of the different uh many luchadors that we saw earlier

but we never really saw any little person wrestling in wcd way was that i just didn't like it well what how did you do microchampionship wrestling after if he didn't like it what the fuck that was a little different because they were all dwarfs little people yeah that didn't, that didn't strike me is, I don't know, I don't even know how to say this. I thought it was, in, before I got into the professional wrestling, when I was a fan, just like everybody else, as I am today, I was always, whenever I would see little people wrestling, it more often than not was comical, to me it was demeaning, just as a fan.

I didn't enjoy it. I didn't enjoy it when I was a little kid. I didn't enjoy it when I was a young teenager. I didn't enjoy it as I still was watching wrestling into adulthood. I just always felt that the way it was done was demeaning. That was one reason. Probably the biggest, by the way. The second reason is there just wasn't a large enough pool of little people that knew how to wrestle that would allow you to

to put forth anything that was not just a comical side show one-off. We're going to create a division. We're going to have a tournament. I would have loved for you guys to have had a division. And you had like just your main characters. Like imagine like a mini LaParkat wrestling on many dusty roads. That would have been badass. And it could have been if there was a large of pool and you could, you know,

get creative and not just. constantly presented in a, what I consider to be, a demeaning way. Just, I didn't like it. Well, we, uh, we love this. Here's what I don't get, Conrad. I am still hung up on the fact that Vince McMahon gave Brett creative control. Dude, he started that to me is the biggest piece of news I've received in forever. I just can't imagine it.

I cannot imagine Vince McMahon. Well, I mean, he says he gave it to him on paper, but in reality, in execution, eh, he didn't really give it to him. Yeah, but you give it someone creative control papers, now you got a legal issue on your hands. Why didn't Brett Sue? Uh-huh. Now that is the question that's got everybody all these years later saying it was a work.

I'm not saying it was a work, but that's what a lot of people point to, because they say, well, Brett was the biggest star, I mean, got the richest contract in wrestling at the time. So he, he totally leveled up his financial position. And this launched and created the Mr. McMahon character, which would help the WWE really level up and, I mean, go into the damn stratosphere. And eventually, I mean, Vince was able to take the company public, largely because of the success of his feud with Stone Cold on camera. What all of that happened? happened the way it did without the Montreal screw job. A lot of people say no.

And they think, okay, well, if Brett is much better off on the other side of this and Vince is much better off on the side of this. And nobody, there wasn't this big resolution to that. And then eventually, what do you know, he did come back and become friendly with the WWE and go in the Hall of Fame, et cetera, et cetera. Perhaps it was a work. Now, of course, those are conspiracy theorists because everyone who was there says, absolutely no way, no how.

But it is one of those things that makes you go, hmm. But to me, not to keep harper on this, because I know we got other stuff to cover here, but to me, that says that Brett's claim for creative control might not have been absolute. Might not have been.

There might have been language within that contract that provided some assurance of creative participation. But if there's, language in that contract that ultimately gives Vince create total creative control i just don't believe it i'm i'm not buying it i'm not buying that Vince McMahon has ever given anybody creative control i know that he's had you know he had his issues with steve austin when steve austin didn't like creative and he took his ship packed his bag and went home right i mean i know that it happens when you're dealing with top talent in the brief period of time that i was there in

2019. I saw the kind of emotional gymnastics that took place every Monday and Friday when talent didn't like the creative. And you had people camped outside Vince McMahon's door for hours in line waiting to get in to plead their case. And lo and behold, stuff changed. That's part of the business. Any, any top person is going to have the ability to sit down with who's ever in charge of creative, whether it was Vince McMahon or Eric Bischoff or Tony Conn or now Paul Levick or Bruce Pritchard or anybody else in that process. It sits down and, hey, you know what, this doesn't feel right for me? Can we revisit some of this? It happens. It's a negotiation more often than not. And the higher up you are in the talent food chain, the more intense and consistent

and often those conversations take place. But I cannot buy that Vince gave Brett total control because when I picked Brett up from the airport or when he first showed up, he was freaking livid. And if Brett would have had the ability to sue because he was so bitter, he was so some of the stuff he said about the entire McMahon family, I'm not going to repeat because I know he didn't mean it at the time. But in his mindset at that point in time for a long time, months probably, it ate him alive. If you have total creative control and you've been abused that badly in Brett's mind,

how do you not pull that trigger? It's not because you can't afford it. You got $3 million a year coming in. you can afford a lawsuit there's something still fishing i'm not buying a work i lean into he may have thought he had creative control and went home and got his lawyer and his lawyer went well it's not really creative control it's creative input that's my take i got to think he doesn't sue him because he goes out on tv i mean while these the cameras are still rolling and there's fans in the arena and destroys all the television equipment spits in the eye of vince

McMahon and then punches him in real life it feels like all right well if you're going to sue me for this then I'm going to sue you for that you know what I'll buy that that's that's believable because especially listening to Vince going back to that interview we just saw you know when jr asked him yeah you're going to pursue legal and Vince said that's up to breath yes so that I'll buy which would support your position that he had creative control not you're now you're to standoff well i'll go sue him for creative control and he's going to sue me for some battery oh he got a concussion oh my god that could be damages down the road yikes i get it oh because here's the thing in the end he got to leave a company where he was positioned

as the second biggest baby face i mean he's the world champ but not the main event that's where they had him and now he's going to get to in theory in his mind go be involved with the bigger hotter company make more money than he's ever made in his life and I'm sure he's thinking at the time main event Halloween havoc or Starcate or something like that for the title with Hulk Hogan the match that had alluded him at that point for four years could be we're watching a match that maybe exemplifies why the WWF was losing the Monday night wars we got Eric Shelley here I know what you're thinking to yourself who

wrestling, Scott Taylor, who's going to go on to eventually be Scotty too hotty. This is all part of a tournament to crown the new light heavyweight champion. And you can see the fans are not engaged. They have not spent any time developing these characters to the audience. So they're having a fine match, but they want to see stars. They want to see spectacle. That's not really what we're seeing here with referee Jimmy Cordaris calling the action. We did a phone call.

Jeff Jarrett called into the program during the course of this. And he was maybe, you know, third generation promoter, the only one with any sense, where he said, Hey, why are we promoting Brett Hart on WWF TV? Isn't he out of the company? Thought that was a little logic. That was nice here. Meltzer would recap this whole Why Brett Y episode by saying,

So the battle lines were drawn for the next Monday night ratings war. The WWF had been promoting why Brett Y, a candid interview with Vince McMahon, plus promising McMahon would discuss the situation further after the show on AOL. McMan's interview did strong quarter-hour ratings, although the end was the typical Nitro win. McMahon's first interview segment went head-to-head with Guerrero and Malenko on the WCW side of things, holding a 3.5 to a 3.4 edge. His second interview went unopposed and drew a 3.5 rating.

So Scott Taylor is victorious here, but the interviews are doing a 3.4 and a 3.5, but really neck and neck with Nitro at the time. So people are interested. And we're going to talk about how Bruce felt about the promo. But first, I think we're going to see Mark Miro call out Butterbean here. This is Mark Mero's second appearance on the show. And by Mark Mero's second appearance, I mean Sable's second appearance. Sable is wearing glasses because they're explaining that she's been kicked by a horse.

And you saw earlier when the glasses came off that she had a black eye. we also saw Merro yelling at her so even though we're not out and out saying it we are certainly implying that Mero is an abusive husband here I don't know I was going to say I've seen people get kicked in the head by horses and a black guy is the least of their concern yes yes she would not be on TV if she had been kicked in the head by horse no um butter bean has a pay preview on December 6th on the Oscar de la Hoya boxing card and I guess maybe we're trying to cross promote some of that and we've got Mark Mero here calling out

Butterbean thankfully that didn't happen we should also talk about the way this interview with with Vince was received Bruce Pritchard has said you know as far as why did Vince even do this? Because I think that's often been the thing as number one doesn't acknowledge number two. At this point, WVE's number two, WCW's number one. But it's still very much a dog fight.

There's lots of inside digs back and forth. And why would you spend time talking about someone who's not here? Bruce said this. There was so much backlash from a certain segment of the audience and audience members that probably wouldn't normally speak up or speaking up about this. And it was a peek behind the curtain to the business. Vince felt it was important to address it and to address the television audience

and talk about, hey guys, this is what happened. And come out for the first time as his mind is the owner of the WWE and that he made the decision to kind of put the heat where he thought it should be. And Bruce says that Vince believed he was not doing a heel promo. He felt like it was a baby face promo. Quote, I know Vince felt this was a baby face promo 100%. 100% Vincent Vincent, Vince looked at it as a baby face promo on his part because he was explaining to the audience, I did this for you. I did this for all the superstars of the WWE. And I did this for you, the audience who supported us.

Brett didn't want to do the time, honor, and tradition and do what was right. So in Vince's mind, he's telling the audience, hey guys, in order to continue to bring you the entertainment we do every week, this is why I had to do what I had to do, but Brett made me do it. What do you think about Bruce's comments there about defense? the way Vince felt about this. I thought it was a baby face interview because he told the truth. Wow. That's what baby faces do.

They tell the truth. Heals lie. Baby faces tell the truth. What Vince said was true. What part wasn't? I know for a fact. Brent told me he didn't want to do the job in Montreal. Yeah.

Well, what did Vince say that was a lie? He didn't. well we uh we've got part two coming up here uh and we're going to be taking a time out here shortly i think we should probably go ahead and start counting down now it's uh 102 35 i'm going to stop it at 102 40 all right well pause right there we see butter being getting out of the ring and we're going to listen to part two of bratt screwed brat but before we do i want to tell you about our friends at hinson shaving this is the best razor i've ever owned We're all familiar with this deal we make in life that if things are better, they cost more money.

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obsolescence and proprietary blades, and maybe it'll be made out of plastic, so it's going to be flimsy and break, and then the hoodwink you and sign you up for a subscription. That's not what Henson does. You see, Henson looks and feels like an old school razor, one like your handsome-ass grandfather used to use, but it works with a standard dual-edged blade like Rick Flair and every other wrestler are very familiar with but this offers you the thinnish razor yet that's why you need henson henson has razors thinner than a human hair and by the way when you make the switch it's only three to five dollars three to five dollars a year to replace those blades normally when you run down to the drugstore and you're picking up some blades that keep it under lock

and key you're done with that routine now you can get a whole year supply for three to five bucks so let's say no to subscriptions let's say yes to a razor that will last you a lifetime visit henson shaving.com slash eric to pick the razor for you and use the code eric and you'll get two years worth of blades free with your razor just be sure to add them to your cart that's 100 free blades at h-en-s-o-n-sh-h-a-n-g-com slash eric be sure to use our promo code eric so eric i'm at 10240 we're seeing butterbeams up out of the ring here I think Gerea is about to follow him out. We're one hour, two minutes, and 40 seconds.

Here we go. In three, two, one play. Well, women will do that to you. And I think that's what Mara's whole problem is. Stu wrapped up in his woman, not paying attention to his career. But ladies and gentlemen, up next in Part 2, why, Fred, why? J.R. didn't love any softballs. But this question could be the toughest of all that was asked.

if you had the opportunity to speak with brett what would you say to him now dude they did such a great job that's three commercials they've taken where they tease it right before the commercial they've built this up it clearly worked 3.5 in the ratings is pretty doggone strong then now forever here we go let's track part two here of why brett why and this is a crazy question Would you welcome Brett Hart back if he just said, you know, Vince, I've changed my mind. Can I come back? Would you allow him to return to the WWF? I mean, he's spit in your face, notwithstanding destroying television monitors and equipment,

certainly notwithstanding the fact that he punched you. Would you allow him to ever come back to the WWF if that was? was an option? This is a strange business. And yes, I would. We would have to have a real frank understanding. I would want to hear Brett say, Vince, I'm sorry. I didn't mean to be selfish.

I just kind of lost it there for a while. And I have no problem saying, Brett, geez, I'm sorry that I had to do what I had to do as well. What I welcome him back, I also would tell Brett to no more free shots. I'd want that from a strictly from a man standpoint. I'd want him to know that, okay, and that in the future, if we're going to have problems along those lines in a locker room or anywhere else, that, okay, we're going to have them, but no more free shots. Yeah, if Brett could tear up his contract with the other guys right now in return,

I'd welcome Brett back under those conditions. His, was his motivation, do you believe his motivation then primarily? He says he didn't leave here for the money. There were signs in the arena following Survivor series. Brett sold out. Brett seems to be sensitive to that subject that he doesn't want to be known as someone who sold out. I'm proud of the fact. that I helped Brett sell out.

And that's what Brett did. He sold out. And it's not a big deal because I helped him do it. So do I think that Brett left for the money? I think that when you're making $3 million a year and you're working 125 days of that year, I think Brett sold out and I don't blame him for selling out. I helped him sell out.

As a matter of fact, You know, I would suggest there could be a long line outside the next locker room with rustlers begging me, Vince, help me sell out. So do I think he sold out? Yeah. And I don't think that, you know, every time Brett says, no, I didn't do it for the money, I think that Brett loses credibility every time he says that. Did this whole ugly ordeal with Brett Hart affect you more professionally, the businessman's side of Vince McMahon or the personal side of Vince McMahon? From a business side, the WWF will go on beyond Brett Hart. From a personal side, it definitely has affected me.

I think that Brett and I, you can't end a 14-year relationship. Black was ended without having feelings. With 4 imprint, finding the right promo products has never been easier. You get free samples, expert help, and art assistants to ensure your logo looks great. Four Imprint offers thousands of options to choose from, including summer ready gear, brand and apparel, drinkwear, outdoor, and more. Your order will be packed with care, delivered on time, and backed by their 360-degree guarantee. That's Four Imprint certainty. Need your order fast?

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Don't wait, text iHeart to 50505 today and take the first step toward protecting your savings. I regret that I felt that I was forced into making the decision that I made. I regret that Brett didn't do the right thing for the business and for himself because it wouldn't have cost him one dollar less with his deal with Turner. I regret that his fans, if there is such a thing separate from WWF fans, are in any way hurt by any of this. I regret that his family

is enduring, having to endure this tirade that Brett seems to be on. I regret that a member of my family, my son, had to witness some of this, especially in the locker room. I regret all of that from a personal standpoint, yet steadfast remain that I made a tough decision

but it was the right decision for the WWF fans and the WWF superstars that remain here loyal to us. If you had the opportunity to speak with Brett, and now is not a bad opportunity, because you know he's watching everybody involved in this situation

is watching this right now except for me what would you say to him now probably what I said to him in the locker room and that is that he made a mistake that I believe he'll regret from a professional standpoint didn't have to be made that way

I felt I had to do what I had to do for my company and our fans and our superstars that remain here and I'm unwavering in that point of view and perhaps Brett is unwavering in his point of view

I don't know that we'll ever get together I hope we will one day. It's too bad that a 14-year relationship was destroyed because one member of that relationship forgot that we're in the sports entertainment business. for God where he came from when will you be over this I'm over it now at the same time

Brett has been such a part of the WWF Brett will always a part of Brett will always be here in the World Wrestling Federation and I'm going to remember the good times. I'm going to remember all the things that we did with Brett in which he performed to the greatest degree possible

and told those wonderful stories. I'm going to remember Brett as the excellence of execution. It's just too damn bad that in the end Brett really wasn't the best there is the best there was and the best there ever will be and he had that opportunity to live up to that

in his final match with the WWF and he failed well what do you think wow that was that was heavy right I mean you said it was a baby face promo how do you feel now even more so

he told the truth that's i mean i i sense no bullshit in that none whatsoever you know what he even surprises me more and listening to this because i forgot that Shane was in the room yeah when uh brett punched Vince I am surprised that Shane didn't take Brett apart because Shane's a hothead yeah he would he likes to fight yeah I'm impressed that he was able to maintain composure because that would have been ugly for brett it's a burial uh i mean he was doing his best to uh to assassinate the character of brett heart but he did so did don't you think he told the truth is is it a burial really he doesn't work here what's the upside

how do you not address it well i'm just how do you pretend it didn't happen uh if you've been watching wrestling in the last couple of years there's been a lot of things that weren't addressed and we pretend it didn't happen yeah but not not of that significance

when was i disagree you know changing a finish in the middle of a match in a pay-per-view um i that's not very commonplace in the last couple years or at any other time oh no i'm i'm not saying that the double cross was the issue i'm just saying normally when you dedicate this much tv time to something eric you're going to pay it all your building to something did what we just saw this McMahon promo did it sell any tickets did it sell any pay per views did it sell any merch. I mean, does it, what did it do? How did it advance our financial future within the

business? Where's the money in what we just saw? I think it put a tourniquet on what would have otherwise been a sizable bleed in terms of fan loyalty. Fans have to understand. It's not like it was a secret. If it would have happened in the ring and nobody would have known if all the the circus that took place after the fact and Brett throwing shit around, spitting on Vince. If all of that wouldn't have happened and you would have just been able to go back in a locker room and argue about it and fight about it and not been in front of the audience,

I'd be with you on that. But given the way it played out on television, I don't know how you just not address it and hear the other side of the story without losing credibility with your audience. I think it was just a ratings ploy. It was a short-sided thing. And little did they know that they just,

just backed into creating some heat for this Mr. McMahon character. By the way, we're watching a pretty fun segment here. Vader is supposed to be wrestling Gold Dust, but Goldust is showing up wearing panty hose saying he's injured. He's not going to be able to wrestle. And he's got a doctor's note.

But I think Goldust is about to hit Vader in the head with a hammer. What is with it? If you're not watching with us on YouTube, we're looking at. he just hit him in the head with a hammer. Touched his face painted like a chestboard. Yeah. With some red horns on his eyes.

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We're going to get back into the. action here we see uh jerry briscoe standing over vader we're on season 5 episode 44 november 17th 1997 here we go in three two one play later needs better for attention but up next it'll be rocky myavia against dude love so check that out this is before they're the rock this is before you know they're battling for the world title at this point uh the rock rocky maia has ran off with uncle Steve Austin's intercontinental championship. Dude love has been mankind since April of 96, but over the summer of 97, we see that sit down interview with Brett, I'm sorry, with Jim Ross. He actually attacks Jim Ross at the end of it, but somehow is a baby face because we

learned about this dude love character. And yeah, so we've got this lovable, likable version of Mick Foley, who's going to be here before he is the. WVF champ, taking on what is going to be one of the biggest Hollywood stars of all time back when he was Rocky Maivia, but just finding his voice as a heel performer. Sargent Slaughter is our on-air commissioner here, much like Jack Tunney once before him. What do you think of Sarge in, I guess what you would call your JJ role? Not Sarge's forte. Yeah.

It's just, it's such a great character in so many ways. But I just, this didn't really click for Sarge, I don't think, to be honest. And I like Sarge a lot. You know, Sarge is one of the first guys, the first time Virgana put me up in front of a camera to try to do an interview. And I just completely made a fool of myself. Much of the humor of everybody standing there watching me, Sarge is one of the guys, along with Brad Riggins, who volunteered to stay after everybody else was done and helped me learn how to do promos.

So I've got a warm spot in my heart for Sarge, but this just isn't his, just isn't his best role. He's announcing right now, he's going to be wrestling Triple H at the pay-per-view. It gets a pop. And what's interesting is, as we're looking at him right here, just six years prior to this, he was main eventing WrestleMania against Hulk Hogan. that feels like a lifetime prior to this wrestling has changed so much from 91 to 97 meanwhile over on the other channel the main event of nitro is the giant taken on scott hall with kevin nash on commentary of course the nw comes out at the finish and we're building towards world war three uh this pay-per-view of course is uh is next for you guys world war three meanwhile they're building for their december in your house show dude love's gonna wrestle Rocky my via here they're going to go about nine and a half minutes when the ratings come

in raw does a 3.15 rating and a 4.89 share the first hour did 2.95 the second hour did 3.17 meanwhile nitro my apologies i said it was three hours it is not it does 4.11 you got a 4.33 first hour and a 3.94 second hour 6.18 share so when it's all said and done, it's a 4.11 to a 3.15. You guys are winning. Of course, this show that we're watching was taped in Cornwall, Ontario. There's a sellout, but it's a smaller building. 3,754 fans paying $46,000. It was taped on the 11th. We're watching it on the 17th. Of course, what is actually happening on the 17th is Rick Rood is hanging out in Cincinnati in front of a sellout, 13,877 fans.

who paid an all-time city record of 222,450 bucks at the gate, plus another nearly 95,000 in merchandise. So Rick Rood could have been wrestling here in Canada, or I guess he was here in Canada in front of 4,000 fans, and six days later, almost 14,000 fans in Cincinnati. It's an interesting show for a lot of reasons. We got a ton of questions about this. Adam Lison wants to know.

Does Eric remember at the time of he, thought the screw job would help or hinder WWE? I don't think I had an opinion about it in that regard. I mean, I was shocked. I couldn't believe it had happened, but I

didn't really think about whether it was a good thing or a bad thing for the company. My V is cutting a promo. Let's track it. That this match I'm about to have is a non-title match. Oh, give me a break. You're not even the champion. And you know, the rock is a lot of things, but a thief isn't one of them. Because you see, when the Rock was intercontinental

champion, all of you people made it perfectly clear that I was the best damn intercontinental champion there was. He got an identity crisis? Who's the rock? He's talking about himself, right? I'm a world-class athlete, a highly intelligent man, and I'm just better than the rest. That's all. Well, Stonepost, Steve Austin, has not left the arena. Rock. You people wanted the rock. Well, the rock has answered your call.

Thank you very much. Man, you can tell he is finding his footing. He's so much more relaxed than he was. Go ahead. That is so fun seeing that early what became such an iconic personality in this industry. but you're seeing he's just getting a feel for it that's fun um michael says it's been discussed many times uh over eric and brett but i'm curious about eric's thoughts about owen heart in late 97 how would eric have used owen had he jumped to wcw oh it's you know michael that's

a hypothetical and something that i never gave him to consider to when it was a possibility and certainly nothing I ever gave consider and I gave any thought to after you know what happened to to oh and so I really don't know how to answer that you know timing would have probably dictated much of it but just not something I ever gave any thought to I'm sorry I couldn't answer that any better for you a bit of a butterfly type effect question here from Mitchell Eric knowing that the Montreal screw job is what created the mr. McMahon character which helped propel the WBF to its amazing run and knowing how poorly Brett Hart's WCW run went, given the chance at a redo, would you go back

and not sign Brett to avoid the Montreal screw job? It's an interesting way of looking at it. First of all, I'm not completely signed off on the fact that the Montreal screw job created the Vince McMahon character. And when I say that, let me also caveat that with a question. When did the Tyson-Austin McMahon story begin?

January. Following this? Yeah, two months later. Okay. All right. I just don't subscribe to the theory that Montreal screw job created Mr. McMahon. I think the idea was for Mr. McMahon to become a character long before the Montreal screw job. Montreal screw job certainly played into it. But to me, what made Mr. McMahon wasn't the Montreal screw job as much as it was Tyson, Austin. McMahon. That to me was the catalyst for what became that character. I think Eric, the reason people zero in on that is the Montreal screw job is really the first time it was like sort of officially, if you will, acknowledged Vince is the boss. Fence is the owner. Yeah. And maybe it was.

Maybe it was all coincidence or maybe it was all a work, but. Wait, you're not one of those people, are you? No, I'm not. I'm not. I'm not. I'm not. I'm not. I'm just placating those who think that it's a possibility because none of us will ever know. The only two people that know 1,000 percent is Vince McMahon and Bray Hart. So it's one of those things I guess we'll never know. I know what I believe. Right.

And what I believe is it was a situation that could have been avoided. It happened. Vince McMahon did what he had to do. As a result, he had to come out. and acknowledge the fact that he was the owner of the company. He had never done that, I don't think, in such a visible public way before. But I just don't think it was the catalyst for the Mr. McMahon character.

I think it was coincidental more than anything. Andy Goldsmith wants to know. I've always wondered, what would Eric have done in Vince's position? I don't know if I would have done what Vince did. and and to be honest about it at that time this is what 97 so i was 42 and had been in management for a couple years at that level i don't know if i would have the balls to do it to be honest i think i would have looked for some other alternative because it's just that was a big move

in all honesty. I don't know that I could have gone there. I would have tried to come up with something else. But I wouldn't have done that. Adam has a great question. Vince shows up on Raw with a huge Shiner here. But had you been in Vince's shoes and Brett took a swing at you following the screw job, how would you have reacted?

Would you have let Brett get a free shot on you like Vince did? Would you have swung back and try to take him down? Or would you just have had security remove him from the building and maybe press charges. I don't know. It's just so much depends on the intent. You know, I've always been under the impression, and I certainly wasn't there, and I've talked to a few people, including a recruit who was, and others subsequent to that. I think Vince went in there knowing he was going to get hit. Yeah. I think he gave it to him. I don't think Vince went in there pissed off, even though Brett spit in his face and did a bunch of stuff,

I don't think that that was his intent going in there. And I'm not sure it wasn't his intent to go ahead and let Brett have a free one. If I get punched in the face and I think somebody's actually wanting to hurt me, I am going to fight back. But I don't know in this situation of that's where Vince's head was at. you know you react differently to things it's like when rick flair busted into my dressing room and started firing shots of me i thought there was a camera somewhere because he was throwing working punches and i he was kind of connecting right but he threw three punches and by the

third punch he was bleeding and i wasn't sure if this was a skit he was thrown working he had to been so long since he threw a real punch i don't think he muscle memory allowed him to know how to real punch. So I didn't really get hit. So I was in a state of confusion as opposed to somebody really haul it off and popping you in the chops. That gets a different reaction. I'm sure it would have gotten a different reaction for Vince unless he walked in there knowing there's a good chance Brett's going to take a shot and making the decision beforehand that he's going to let him have it. So the nation of domination interfere. It's going to be a DQ, a schmaz, if you will, and all of a sudden they've got Mick Foley with his arms

pin behind his back. Rock picks up Austin's Intercontinental Title belt, getting ready to clock him in the face and Austin slides in and makes the save. So we're going off the air here with a hot angle with the rock and stone cold all about the intercontinental title. A little foreshadowing of what would happen in the future, but with the world title. A couple more questions. Then I want to touch on some modern stuff and we'll get out of here. RCS 88 wants to know if Pilman was alive. Do you think he would have gone back to WCW in protest and joined perhaps the NWO? Pilman in coming back. That's an interesting idea. I think there would have been a

possibility at least. I mean, we saw Davey boy. We saw Knightheart. I'm sorry. We saw we saw Davey boy. We saw Knightheart. The only two left were Owen and Pilman. yeah that could have been interesting i i could have seen it yeah bryan and i we weren't on bad terms at all when he left wcd at all uh we had had several conversations while he was in wwe and they were very amicable uh so i certainly a possibility uh peter wants to know what was the point in bringing in rude if he wasn't able to wrestle kind of an enforcer role rude was very good on the Mike, by the way, for those that forget or didn't know because you weren't really watching back

then. Rick was really good on the mic and he posed, he was a threat. I mean, the way Rick carried himself and based on the career that he had had, he was a potential threat that could really work a mic and he looked like he was right out of central casting. So he had a lot of value in that regard. I want to remind everybody that about a year prior to this over on Nitro, you turned heel and revealed that you were actually a part of the NWO as you guys were setting up Piper and Hogan for Starcade 96. Here we are a full 12 months later and we see Vince McMahon may be tiptoeing down as the heel authority figure, if you will. Another thing maybe you don't get credit for just

want to throw that out there degeneration X yes I mean come on unless you're not paying attention yeah or just not really observant you have to know that and you know

it's funny it was what what predicated this I think sometime in November 1997 is Vince McMahon coming out and saying hey we're going to change the way we do things yes we're not going to insult the intelligence intelligence of our audience any longer reality based story it's all shit that i've been doing and kicking his ass with for over a year by that point so it's interesting that Vince finally threw in his chips and said

okay i'm going to do what eric's doing over there and it worked he did it better and bigger and louder and crazier i want to talk about tony con bully ray evan courageous rig flare Murdoch and Fox and WWE but before we do that and we'll put a button on this episode I wanted to let you have an opportunity to talk about how you've been eating good lately with our friends over at River Bend Ranch yeah thank you for that and do you know Conrad I mean you've eaten fine restaurants yeah traveled all over the place you enjoy a great meal but do you know why when you go into one of the top restaurants anywhere in this country and you see aged prime steak do you know

why aged meat tastes so much better than meat that is not aged i don't that many people do and back when i worked for a food processor no i wasn't selling meat out of the trunk of a car but i did work for a food processor and i learned all about aged meat back in the late 70s early 80s, because the processors that I worked for, it was a commercial food processing organization. They had their own processing plants, obviously, but they also had a room where they aged their beef for 28 days. It was their methodology. And I had to learn why age meat is so much better. And what happens, it's kind of a, you know, originally it was a way of preserving meat before refrigerators became a thing.

You find an area that had the right temperature and the right humidity, and you hang that meat there and you let it age for a period of 21 to 30 days, depending on how you do it. And what happens is the meat, the enzymes in the meat start to break down. And when the enzymes start to break down, the meat fibers start to loosen up and become tender. The flavor profile changes with aged beef. It has a much more savory.

It's just a different flavor. And that's why if you go into any of the most expensive steakhouses anywhere in America, you're going to find that your meat has been aged for a period of 21 to 30 days under a specific humidity and temperature. Because it makes all the difference in the world in the quality, the taste, the texture of said, Meat product. And River Bend Ranch, they not only age their beef, for the reason it's so expensive and you only get it at super high dollar restaurants is because 99% of the meat that you're going to buy in retail comes to one of a couple big major processing plants, big box processing plants, and they churn and burn. They get that meat in the door and out the door and onto a truck as quickly as they can. It's a meat factory.

aging, taking that inventory out of the pipeline and letting it age for 30 days is very, very expensive. And very few of the big commercial processing plants have the facilities to do it. At River Bend Ranch, they not only processed their own beef to none in terms of what I've had access to, including some of the finer restaurants that I've eaten at anywhere in a country. No hormones ever. no antibiotics ever i know right where this meat comes from where it's grown how it's grown what it's fed who processes it the fact that it's aged and it ship right to my door and the best part is if you compare it to any of the other box meat delivery companies out there you're going to save

money you've just got to try it go to get riverbend dot com and find out how you're going to you could get some of the best quality meat. You're going to find anywhere, and I mean anywhere, deliver to your door, forget all the supply chain issues, forget about showing up at the supermarket on the weekend, getting ready to grill some steaks for your friends, or coming over to watch football, and finding out that it's all been picked over.

And who cares? Because you don't know where it comes from. It hasn't been aged. You don't know anything about that product. Get Riverbam Ranch.com, and you're going to find out just how great meat can be. so let's talk about some current events then we'll put a button on this extra jumbo episode of 83 weeks there's been so much flying through the headlines i feel like we should cover as much of it as we can we saw tony con tease a big announcement and the big announcement was tickets are on sale for all in next year at wimbly stadium um a lot of people have been critical of this approach tony con has a big announcement it feels like that we have seen more of those happening, but this is the follow-up act to the

biggest event in wrestling history. I get why it deserves, you know, a platform, but even I can admit, maybe I wouldn't have said we've got a big announcement. What did you think? There's a misfire. That's all. I mean, I get it. He's proud of it.

He should be quite an accomplishment. There's no question about that. I think AEW feels, I don't want to try to be inside of the mind of Tony Conner or anybody else for that matter, but I would imagine if I was in Tony's shoes, I would feel like I got to have something to brag about or to highlight or promote that's a positive.

But man, doing it as a special announcement, that was just a misfire. That's all. Just a misfire. I'm sure you learn from it. It's learning on the job. just like I did you don't come out of the shoot having never run a wrestling company or any

other kind of company for that matter and get all your decisions right you learn on the job you win some you lose some this was a loser bad choice it feels like uh there was a little bit of backlash when it was announced that rick flair has signed a multi-year deal with a e w and I think some of the backlash is because of some off-the-field controversy perhaps other backlash was about hey this was supposed to be a quote unquote alternative to w we've got big show tagging with chris jericho and we've also got edge and christian and we've got mero and daniel brian and oh now ricklair's here too it's feeling more like a recycled w w e than an alternative to it i was curious i was interested to see what you thought about

the rick flare announcement and that it really all hinges on his new energy drink because we know WCW had well I wouldn't go so far as to call it an energy drink but you guys had a partnership with surge and doing a lot of product placement and it feels like we're going to be doing that with Rick Flair's energy drink I think it'll be at the press conferences and on the announced desks and maybe they'll have some other in-program content promotion for the energy drink what do you think of the announcement aren't you surprised to hear that it's a multi-year deal? what's interesting I just saw that clip you put up there if you're watching along on

YouTube I came out with a raw energy drink and a Hulk Hogan energy drink I got both of those drinks into every Walmart in the United States 3,500 stores for the raw energy Hulk Hogan energy drink. So I've got a little tiny bit of experience in this world. It's going to be interesting because distribution, now I understand this energy drink is probably something a little bit different. I don't know. I think it's from the same people that are behind the cannabis products.

That's right. Chad Bronson, yeah. So it may be appealing to a different target audience. I was going mass market, which is why I went down to Arkansas and pitched the raw energy drink and Hogan energy drink. and, like I said, cut them into 3,500 retail outlets. I don't know what kind of distribution this particular product is going to have, but I am going to point out that the cans look very similar,

except for the one of the collars. The Rick Flair, the Wu drink in the red and yellow, looked interestingly similar to the Hulk Hogan Energy drink, just the graphics and the collars and everything else. That's kind of interesting. Here's the thing, though. I, if Tony knew, and maybe the timing didn't allow for this, but if Tony knew that he was going to sign Rick Flair, Tony knew that he had made an announcement, that everybody was going, ooh, what's the big announcement? I personally thought it was a streaming announcement.

So when it became tickets on sale, it's like, oh, that's not what I was hoping for, I guess, or looking forward to hearing. Why didn't Tony announce Rick Flair? That would have been a big announcement. That would have made people go, okay, we got to see whether you feel like, boy, this is like WWE or not. You know, bringing Rick Flair into the company is a big damn deal. Why would you announce tickets on sale instead of Rick Flair? That's a little confusing to me.

Just a bad choice. As far as Rick is concerned, look, if, first of all, I'm happy for Rick, because I don't think I've met anybody that is, that loves the business as much as Rick Flair. Yes, sir. It's a part of who he is. his DNA and chromosomes have changed over the years and are directly connected to the wrestling industry.

And I think that's where Rick is happiest, whether it's just being around the talent and being, you know, look, I think Rick enjoys being on camera, but I think more than being on camera, Rick enjoys being near the business. Yeah.

As opposed to sitting on the outside and looking. again. So in that sense, I'm really happy for Rick at this stage of his life to be able to have that part of your life that's important to you kind of back in your life is nothing but a good thing for Rick. As far as the energy drink goes, you know, I don't know, man, a jury's out on that. And again, without knowing what their distribution plan is, because here's the deal. Here's what I learned the hard way, right? Is in my case, I went to Arkansas. I pitched the energy drink products. I got distribution in every Walmart store in the United States, and we still got our ass kicked. Because what I learned the hard way is that Pepsi and Coke and all the other

really, really big boxed energy drink and soft drink manufacturers, because they all, you know, develop their own soft drinks. If you don't have your own distribution or you're not distributed by one of the larger distributors like Coke or Pepsi, for example, and I had eye-level center shelf, which is prime beachfront property in terms of retail blocking shelf space. That's what we negotiated. I-level center-center aisle. Couldn't ask for better positioning. But what would happen is every Monday or every Wednesday or every Friday, whatever day it was, your Coke and your Pepsi guys that were local would come in and they'd rearrange the shelves.

So it didn't matter what the deal said that you had with Walmart. It mattered what the distributors who wanted your shelf space. Because we only had two skews. We didn't have like six different varieties or 10 different varieties. We only had two skews, two items, right? So it became very easy for a Coke or Pepsi distributor to come in and go, oh, there's this raw energy drink. Well, they're going to go down here at the bottom.

And I knew that because I would go into stores. Here in Wyoming, I would go into stores that we're carrying the product and I'd go, wait a minute, that's not where our placement was assigned. We're down here at the bottom where nobody even saw it. But the distribution in the soft drink business is incredibly competitive. Same is true with beer, by the way. Learn the same thing. More so with the energy drink, though.

It is a cutthroat, low margin, difficult business unless you've got the right distribution. So this exposure that Wu Energy drink is getting on television is nothing but a good thing. If they've got the right distribution strategy in place, it's a win, win, win. Rick wins, Tony wins, because from what I've understood, Wu Energy is paying Rick's freight, paying for a salary. So Rick Flair wins, Woo Energy Drink wins, and Tony Kahn wins, potentially, depending on how he uses Rick. It's a win-win-win situation, and how anybody could look at it any other way. Time will tell.

Look, Rick's got value. Rick coming out and being a mentor, Rick coming out as a spokesperson, you know, leader of a faction, so to speak, without having to get physical, there is definitely value there. Rick's moreover now in mainstream media than he was back in the. mid 90s for sure early 90s for sure there's value there it's just a matter of how he uses it all right pop quiz eric somebody was in the news i want to show you their pictures see what you think eric who is this person no evan courageous well fortunately made the news he was arrested for simple assault but i'll tell you what if you would have given me a hundred chances to guess who that professional wrestler was,

I would have said, I don't know, an extra from the Sopranos, I would have never zeroed in on. Oh, wow. Evan Courageous or as Tony Schiavani calls him, nothing happened in Evan Courageous. We don't know all the details, uh, certainly not piling on the guy, just a case of, wow, where are they now? Did not. What did he get arrested for you, though? Simple assault.

As opposed to complex assault where you whoop somebody's ass with a trig. calculator. Hey, um, two other, three other notes I want to touch on. There was a really great hypothetical idea thrown out there by bully ray. It's picked up some traction. I've heard from some people who were pretty smart in the wrestling business who say that boy, this could be the real shot in the arm that perhaps that EW has been looking for. Bulley Ray suggested on busted open that if, the person behind the devil mask where we saw that attack a few weeks ago and now there's been a who done it if it turns out to be revealed that that is actually see and

punk that it would be one of the greatest storyline and works and presentations in the history of wrestling and i can't help but think all right first of all if that's true and that is see and punk i don't believe it is but if they're going to reveal that that's seeing punk this is one of the greatest stories in the history of pro wrestling now if we agree that it's probably not seeing punk after people have suggested that it's seeing punk i think almost whoever it is now is going to be a bit of a disappointment to a certain section of the fan base i remember being in daly's place in the stands for the a w pay per view where they announced that Tony Kahn had signed one of his favorite wrestlers of all time.

This was going to be one of the biggest signings in the history of wrestling. And all around me in that section of fans, as we watched that pay-per-view, people were guessing it's Brock Lesnar, it's John Sina. It wound up being Christian. Now, we know right now Christian is doing some of the best work of his career. He's been a home run for AW. But managing expectations is like the key to life. now the fans are starting to go wild with this theory that hey see and punk in the devil mask

which i don't believe it is it's almost a disappointment no matter who it is now right yeah let me back up on bully statement though about this being you know the best story he didn't say that i said that all right well let me let me call you out of that that's bullshit the only way that that's true is if this would have been planned over the last year otherwise it's just making chicken salad out of chicken shit there's nothing genius about that well hang on what the result is the same right really happy fans no it's not no it's not okay how's it because if if we're we're dealing in fantasy land here so i i i preface everything i'm saying with a i don't believe any of this is real right but i just want to go to what makes a good story what makes

the best story in the history of wrestling or or an arc and what doesn't if this was something that was conceived initially back when CM Punk first went off on Tony con and had his meltdown and his issues with the the bucks and whoever else he had issues with if that was all the work and this is the result of it I'm in I'll put it over as the best story ever been told. But if this is just making chicken salad out of chicken shit, it doesn't qualify as a story or an arc or plan. It's just a band-date in a much-needed one.

In terms of, will it have the same effect? I disagree. I think if it were to be revealed, CM Punk, you're going to have a segment of the audience where definitely CM Punk fans who are going to be overjoyed. I think you're going to hear a collective moan with everybody else, the other 75 or 50% of the audience, whatever it is, I don't know what it is.

Those who aren't died in the will see in punk fans, and by the way, based on the kind of stuff I see in social media, there's a lot more people that aren't CM punk fans that are. The ones that are tend to be very vocal, but there's a lot of, I think the audience is split, maybe.

You're going to hear such a collective groan if it is. us and neither one of us think it will be two more things then we'll wrap it up uh it was recently announced not too long ago that uh the n w a and our old pal billy corgan had secured a television deal with cw for not one but two shows one being n wa power and the other being a reality show will behind the scenes look and it's been written that the reality show will be self-funded by billy corgan and there's other rumor and innuendo that perhaps the television deal might wind up becoming a streaming on the cw app deal apparently there were some people who had their feelings hurt over at the cw again

this is all according to a report from your old pal nick houseman where he's not my pal don't say okay he's my pal on the pay-per-view their most recent paper view which was rumored to have Not that many buys, not piling on, just saying there was a lot of negativity surrounding that show. But at some point, during the broadcast, they did something I've never seen before. I guess I'm going to describe it as a cocaine spot. They didn't cut away and you saw Jim Mitchell and his band of Mary misfits snorting a substance on camera.

And allegedly, folks at the CW did not like that. now the rumor in innuendo is that billy corgan okayed this and pushed for it to be on the pay-per-view felt strongly that it should be on the pay-per-view it was there and the rumor according to nick houseman is that perhaps the television opportunity with the cw is at least now in a little bit of jeopardy because some people had some upset feelings so first of all let me ask you this do you think the differentiate different of it's on pay-per-view, it's on TV. Does that matter in this instance? And if we all agree that this is fantasy and it's all story, this is an industry where we've had people sacrificed and there have been murders and there have been, you know, miscarriage storylines and abused wife storylines and all these really poor taste ideas. A cocaine spot on a wrestling show? What say you? It's weird. It's weird. It's weird, isn't it? How wrestling has still, to this day, despite how mainstream, how large it's become, how powerful it's become, still finds residents in this weird spot in television where certain things are just off limits.

If we're going to watch a scripted series, I don't know how many of them I've watched where you see somebody doing COVID. Okay. So many. Or shooting heroin or doing whatever within the context of a scripted presentation. But yet when wrestling steps outside of the bounds, and I don't even know where the boundaries are, I don't think anybody else does either, there's no definitive right or wrong. It's a matter of taste of judgment at a particular point in time. but in this particular case you've got people doing cocaine on camera what's probably not real cocaine we all know that but if you're using cocaine to advance a character or storyline you got people throwing flags

I think a lot of that has to do with the reason why beer companies still are hesitant to this day to this day are hesitant to advertise in wrestling because there's still either a real or perceived component of the audience, too large of a component of the audience that are children, right? And that's where I think the gray area is. Some television executives recognize it for what it is. Some of them are still like, oh, no, we don't want to be associative with that. They're fearful of it.

But I think, you know, TV versus pay-per-view, it doesn't fucking matter. It's still the NWA. It's still your brand. It's still your characters that we see on TV. And yes, pay-per-views are seen on television. So I think to find any kind of comfort where you're able to get away with things, big things, controversial things, like a cocaine spot, but you're going to be allowed to get away with it because it's on pay-per-view

and not on television is naive as hell. That's just inexperienced, not having dealt with television networks, not ever having been in a position where you've got a television a partner that actually cares about what you do. It's just a reflection of, it's just naivete, naivete, it's all it is. And a fair amount of stupidity because you know you're bringing that attention to yourself in a way that's, you got people dropping dead in the streets from snort and blow from fentanyl. I mean, it's, I don't know, man.

I don't know, Billy Corrigan. I've had lunch with it. him and spend a little bit of time with him, but that was just flat out freaking stupid. Especially you're trying to, you're trying to emerge. You're trying to break out of YouTube and actually get a television deal. And you feel strongly about a cocaine sweat, which by the way, didn't get anybody over anyway. What was the purpose of it?

You're going to get Jim Mitchell over? Are you kidding me? You guys never been over in the 20s? years he's been in business how is this going to make a difference i don't just the more i think about it the more pissed off i get because it's the kind of thing that really damages the wrestling genre for television it's just it's just like people are inventing ways to screw stuff up it's like i don't know let's change the subject you got half hot there i am hot i hate when people blow opportunities they're hard to come by folks they're really freaking hard to come by why would you

do something that you know is going to blow up in your face and if you don't know what's going to blow up in your face get out of the businesses you shouldn't be in it my god oh god not really come on i'm going to blow i mean you asked a question i'm sorry let's move on i didn't want to get this hot All right, we're going to put a bow on this show as we're going overtime with you guys. First of all, I want to give a shout out to everybody who decided to come hang out with us today. Little Jimmy Sorensen, hadn't seen you in a while, little Jimmy, glad you're here, glad coach Keith was here. Uh, man, we got so many folks who were in the group chat.

Greatly appreciate Aaron and everybody, Bobby and shout out to all you guys hanging out with us on a Monday morning. What's up, David and everybody else? I, um, I wanted to ask you about this clip. I guess it was like an investors type call and Lockland Murdoch was answering questions and one of the questions was about the WWE deal and that Fox is going to let Smackdown fly the coop. Of course we know they're going to wind up being on USA and man he was pretty honest in saying that Fox just didn't get the type of return on investment for WWE that they had hoped for

and they also said that they weren't getting the retransmission revenue that they had hoped for by having WWE, which is what the little syndicated networks would pay for. So like locally, our Fox affiliate is WZDX. They call it Fox 54 and everybody, you know, has to pony up to have that station. If you have a cable system, whether it's, you know, Comcast or Xfinity or whatever, you want to call it or you've got satellite whoever it may be so the gist is hey man we just didn't get the type of return on investment we were hoping for we knew that you know going in i mean if they were if they were making money hand over fist they wouldn't let the thing go in the first place

but i don't know it strikes me another way when you actually see it and hear it from the horse's mouth pardon the pun my god they just didn't get the return and now that information is public. We all knew it. It was obvious, but it feels different when they just hit us over the head with it. What did you think of this statement from Mr. Murdoch? Well, I understood it. And that's right been traditionally one of the biggest challenges in the professional industry, which is perhaps why I get so hot when Billy Corrigan does a stupid cocaine spot because it damages the entire industry. When it makes news in the variety, when it, when it, when it bubbles up in the Los Angeles community because the TV industry in Los

Angeles and New York is way smaller than people think, way smaller, right? It's the kind of thing that makes it difficult for professional wrestling to enjoy the same benefits and latitudes that a lot of other general entertainment programs have, including content, including advertising, which we've talked about ad nauseum on strictly business and here on 83 weeks with you over the years, that, yeah, you get a great rating, but it doesn't have the value to advertisers as other forms of entertainment do, because professional wrestling, unfortunately to this day, despite the major growth and success that WWE has had in making it more palatable for a broader array of mainstream advertisers,

it is still challenged by the fact that wrestling isn't fish nor foul. It's not drama, it's not comedy, it's not sports, but it is drama. It is comedy and it is sports. it's weird right and because it's weird people tend to kind of back away from a little bit because it can't really define it and those who don't know why wrestling is as popular as it is back off even further those who realize that wrestling is very popular and a lot of people watch it are still hesitant to advertise in it so the value you get for the ratings you deliver are consistently lower than other forms of entertainment that's the challenge with wrestling

right? It's the WWE has that challenge to this day quite clearly because they were delivering ratings. They were getting some of the highest. SmackDown was outperforming everything else on network television, often. They were getting the audience, but they couldn't

sell that audience to advertisers. Same as probably true with Raw. Same as probably chew with AEW, perhaps even more so because it's new and less familiar, less established. And guys like Billy Corrigan don't help because they're doing stupid shit and people don't

differentiate. Oh, well, that's just Billy Corrigan and NWA. In the television community, in the ad sales community, wrestling is wrestling folks. Now, more people recognize WWE for what it is than everything else that's out there, but it's still got that same challenge. What I do find interesting, as you pointed out very clearly and smartly, is it, Lockwood Murdoch came out and said it publicly. Wow. Typically kind, that's the kind of thing that you don't necessarily come out and say it. No.

It taints the market going forward. Yes. Well, if Fox can't do it, why do I want to? Maybe I'm not really as comfortable giving this a try because if Fox, as powerful as they are, and as sophisticated as they are in the ad sales team that they have and all the other the resources that Fox has if they can't make it work why should I give it a try that's what I find the most interesting it's unbelievable to me I can't wait to see what's going to happen next there's going to be a lot of moving parts on the wrestling business in the coming years and just

really in the next 12 months I can't wait to see how it all shakes out next week we're going to be talking about business and the wrestling business when we pay tribute to a legend who is maybe not gotten his just due from a wrestling fan perspective we're talking about ted turner next week we'll talk about the man behind the name and what a business what an empire he built your relationship with him maybe misconceptions about him is larger than life personality, a true maverick and a renegade, if you will, in the business space. Next week, our topic is Mr. Ted Turner. Today is our 295th episode, Eric, so we are looking strong at episode 300 next month

here on the program. In the meantime, we would love to be talking about your product or service. If you're looking for men that are 25 to 54 years old, there's no better place to advertise than right here with us. You hear some of the same sponsors week after. week for years. Why is that? Because it really works. And if you're looking for dudes, we got them, find out how affordable it can be for us to talk about your product here and advertise witheric.com. You can also pick up Eric's new book over on Amazon while you're

there. Be sure to add our pal David's a hotie's book to your car as well. Throw us a like, hit the subscribe button anywhere you enjoy podcasts. And if you've got a question about Ted Turner, it's easy to ask it across any of our platforms it's 83 weeks on twitter instagram and facebook that's at 83 weeks you can ask a question about ted turner there and be sure to check out our youtube channel it's one thing to hear the show it's another to see it we've got lots of visual aids for you as well it's 83 weeks on youtube.com Eric I never know what to expect when we sit down and click record but we got to talk about current events you got half hot at billy corgan we got to take a look at the

Mr. McMahon character talked about creative control differences between Hulk Hogan and Brett Hart. And more importantly, we talked about an iconic moment in the Monday Night War history. Rick Rood on both shows the same night. It was fun to watch this with you the first time ever. What did you think? It was fun to watch. I thoroughly enjoyed watching the Vince McMahon Jim Ross interviews. And by the way, I'm happy to share the knowledge with you about why aged meat is so much better than non-aged meat. You learned something new? every day. We live to enlighten here on 83 weeks. No peaking, Eric. Be sure to check out social media later this week. Eric Bischoff, this is your life coming up sooner rather

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