83 Weeks with Eric Bischoff - Episode 302: 2023 Pro Wrestling Review

Starting point is 00:00:00 Hey, hey, it's Conrad Thompson, and you're listening to 83 weeks with Eric Bischoff. Eric, what's going on, man? How are you? Oh, that's how I'm doing. I'm having a great time. Here in Clearwater, Florida, with my family, my entire family. It is awesome. Yesterday, I went to a little mini farm for kids where you could walk around and pet horses and feed goats and play with pigs and some exotic animals I've never seen before.

Starting point is 00:00:44 I had a zorce absolutely fall in love with me and wanted to come home with me. You know what a zorce is? It's a half zebra, half horse. And I know how to rub a horse's ears because I used to have horses and mules. And I got into this zorce's ear and rubbed him like a horse's ear. and rubbed him like a big dog and this thing wanted to come home with me it was touching did i have a fu-manchu or say that doesn't work for me brother no no no fu-manchu was a beautiful zorce i hadn't seen a zorce in person before beautiful zorce i loved him dude zorse sounds like

Starting point is 00:01:19 another gimmick name for ed leslie in the dungeon of doom i know i can't believe he didn't come up with it i mean he kind of had the zebra look with the zodiac if you guys yeah i don't know he could be he could be you know half zebra half horse maybe maybe zeus could hook up with him and it could have been like zorse you know what i mean like that's the tag team man hey i was going to say ho ho ho instead of hey hey but uh we really appreciate you guys tuning in on christmas day here on 83 weeks as we're recording this it's christmas eve morning i know you're uh down visiting garrett and his lovely family and you know now you're a grandpa.

Starting point is 00:02:00 Does you ever imagine yourself as a grandpa, Eric? You know, honestly, no. And it's interesting. I had this conversation with Garrett yesterday. We were driving around and, and, uh, just talking about Waylon and how amazing he is. And he is just fascinating. But I said, Garrett, to be really honest with you, I've been reluctant to share this because I didn't want anybody to take it the wrong way.

Starting point is 00:02:28 right but before wayland came around because garret and mary jane have been looking forward to having children for a long time and there were challenges so during the period of time when i knew it was important to them and they were trying really hard and going through you know some ups and downs as a result and i felt a little guilty because i thought you know i keep hearing how everybody talks about once they become a grandparent how it changes their life believe that I said Garrett to be really honest just completely honest I didn't think I'd be that guy like I did thought of someone calling me grandpa or anything related to it kind of kind of created a really adverse reaction deep deep deep down inside I didn't relate there was no connection to

Starting point is 00:03:20 the idea of being a grandparent until whalen came wrong right came along and then it's like okay now I get it I have that grandpa gene I can I'm that guy but until it happened to me I did the idea was kidding aside the idea was very abstract to me until it wasn't and then I became overwhelmed with it just like probably most grandparents are and it's a blast you know just watching him like Go into that petting farm yesterday. I know it sounds kooky. But when you see, like I was here in February, what is that, 10 months ago, whatever, I was here 10 months ago.

Starting point is 00:04:05 He couldn't talk. Right. He could babble and react to things and slobber, but he couldn't, like, carry out a conversation. He's just a little over two years old, and we're communicating now. And he's articulate. That's a part that blows me away. Like, he'll say words. and I go, I don't think that word could be enunciated any better.

Starting point is 00:04:27 It's just amazing. And the little tiny things are just little things. But the little things fascinate me. And I'm just having so much fun just watching him. Just watching. Man, I love hearing about the, the grandpa version of Eric Bischoff. And listen, let's be honest, no matter what you celebrate,

Starting point is 00:04:45 this time of year, it's important that we all think about our family and spend time with our family and reflect on the last year and get ready. for the upcoming year and that's what we're going to be doing today with our podcast family talking about 2023 the year in review I guess we should just start with what's to come before we record again because again you and I are recording on Christmas Eve I assume we'll record again on New Year's Eve that'll be the morning after the AEW World's End pay-per-view and a lot of times with AEW you don't really know what the main event is going to be until you get a lot closer to the event.

Starting point is 00:05:26 We've known what the main event was going to be for a long time, though, here. It's MJF versus Samoa Joe in Long Island, sort of the home territory, if you will, for MJF. Underneath that, we've got an ODQ match with Christian Cage and Adam Copeland for the T&T championship. We've got a tag team world title match. Chris Jericho is looking for a partner with Kenny Omega on the shelf with diverticulitis as they challenge Big Bill and Ricky Starks.

Starting point is 00:05:53 We got Tony Storm defending her women's title against Rejo, Julia Hart, defending her TBS championship against Avedon, Hook in there with Wheeler Yuda for the FTW Championship, and the winner of this Blue League versus Gold League, everything they're calling the Continental Classic, this will be for the inaugural Triple Crown Championship, which will combine the Ring of Honor World title and the new Japan Strong Openweight Championship and the AEW Continental Championship.

Starting point is 00:06:28 So the Triple Crown may be a tip of the cap to Japan, but pretty decent looking card. It feels like AEW more often than not super serves their audience and delivers on pay-per-view. What do you expect from this show this weekend and all the hype that you've seen surrounding it so far? to be completely honest i haven't seen a lot of the hype i'm relatively unaware of it i would i am looking forward to the mjf samoa jo match yeah just because i think they're two phenomenal performers one in samoa jo that that that's been around for a long time and survived and came out on top and just got an amazing story to tell both in the ring and out of the ring, very strong family man, and he's hanging in there

Starting point is 00:07:22 and he's doing a great job. I love Simojo's work, and I dig him as a human being. You know, MJF is kind of like on the other side of the equation in a way. You know, he's brand new out of the box in terms of his, you know, the amount of time that we've all been aware now of MJF on a national level. Right. He's still really pretty green. he's young what how old is he now 26 i think he's 27 i think 27 i mean he's so young and so new and so fresh and and without question i my opinion i shouldn't say without question everybody can

Starting point is 00:08:02 question whatever they want don't care but from my perspective if i look at the this newest class of professional wrestlers both in AEW and and in WWE and across the board for what little I see of the other promotions. MJF is at the top of the class in his age group or his generation of up-and-coming talent. I can't think of anybody overall. Now, I'm talking about being well-rounded. You can talk about O'Connor. You can talk about Kenny Omega.

Starting point is 00:08:39 You can talk about Will Osprey. And these guys are all in the conversation when it comes to what they're capable of in the ring. But I don't think there's much of a conversation when it comes to all-round talent. Your ability to perform in the ring, your ability to create a character that's compelling, that connects to the audience, one way or the other. You can either love your hatred. As Verne Guy just said, it really doesn't matter as long as they feel strongly one way or the other. Firmly believe that. And MJF has done that. His ability on the mic, I mean, his narrative skills, let's call it that instead of mic work or stick work his narrative talent and skill set

Starting point is 00:09:21 combined with what he's capable of doing physically in the ring and his his psychology in the ring and out of the ring with regard to his character i don't think there's anybody that comes close i would think you know if you if you take a step back from a ew and you look across the aisle to um w i would have to include dominic Mysterio in the conversation at 26 and and Rio Ripley at 27 but I'm with you I think those are probably my top three as far as you know what the future looks like of professional wrestling and I'm excited to see what they do you know the the rumor in innuendo is that MJF has has not signed the contract I mean that's certainly what he's telling Sports Illustrated other eight other reports in

Starting point is 00:10:08 the industry are saying oh no he signed and whatever I don't know but here's what I do know he's hurt and he's working hurt and supposedly it's something that might require surgery I don't have any details or any inside knowledge there but given the the interest and intrigue around the devil storyline and who is the devil and all that it certainly seems like it's getting to a head and if you're going to drop the title I can't think of a better person to you know end this rain than Samoa Joe I mean it's believable to have a cool story and if it does wind up being a transitional thing because he's got to be out he being MJF for a little bit of a surgery maybe that works out but I'm excited to see it you know

Starting point is 00:10:54 you know it's going to be a hot crowd that AW audience when they're super served exactly what they're looking for like they get on pay-per-view they're going to they're going to be hot they're going to be lively especially in MJF's sort of hometown but I think the match I'm looking forward to most from a a fan perspective is is Adam Copeland and Christian. I've just loved Christian stuff this year. He would be on my list of MVP's for AEW this year. And I'm going to make it appointment television watching for me. It's happening this Saturday night. AEW World's End. Of course, there's going to be some NFL. There's going to be some bowl games. It's going to be a fun time if you're a sports fan, but I'm going to find time to

Starting point is 00:11:34 watch AEW World's End. And it makes me wonder like, as you take a look at, because we're going to be talking a lot about what has happened this year, but as we look into the future, but as we look into the future, it feels like it would be a good business move for AEW to load up as many paper reviews as they can in the new year. I know originally they were looking at quarterly and that's the way that their calendar sort of worked with revolution and double or nothing and all out and then full gear. But now it feels like, hey, we've added, you know, the, a couple of Japanese paper reviews now. We've added some other special attractions like we're getting World's End. And it feels like that AEW audience is super loyal and you're going to get 100,000 buys or better every

Starting point is 00:12:19 time you do a pay-per-view, why not do those on a more regular basis? And I know there was whispers that maybe they might do it monthly. And I know you were one of the first guys to do that way back when because you saw there is a fan base that will be there every month, pretty much like clockwork. Do you expect to see that be the case in AEW in 2024? I suspect some conversion, you know, I don't think they're going to be able to hold on to 100% of the pay-per-view audience that they've been able to rely upon, you know, for the last couple of years, simply because of math. It starts to get a little expensive. And there are probably price points or thresholds that people are willing to get close to, but not exceed. I don't

Starting point is 00:13:05 know. I think you, I would expect if I was consulting or advising or ask an opinion, I would expect to probably a 15 or 20% drop over the course of a year, maybe a little more, just because of, again, pricing and just affordability, you know, who's going to buy 12 of those a year? I don't know. Maybe somebody well. Maybe they're addicted enough or loyal enough, But I would expect, I would, here's, if I had to put together a forecast for my banker and for my board of directors, so to speak, I would predict a 20, 25% decrease in per pay-per-view purchases, but by adding as many as they are, their net dollars are not a dollar to the bottom line are going to be way up. so it's a business it's it always comes down to math doesn't it it's all math we can argue debate have our subjective opinions um but always just comes down to math well let's think about this math because you know when i as we're talking about what the long term play may be doesn't it make

Starting point is 00:14:26 sense that perhaps if the rumor in you innuendo is correct that their television rights deal and all of that is going to be up towards the end of next year. Wouldn't it make sense to load up as much pay-per-view as you could if you were trying to position yourself to get a much bigger television rights fee that included a streaming component for the pay-per-views, meaning taking a look at all the revenue that it's generated and now, hey, here's what this is worth as a standalone property, what could it be over here? I mean, I think everybody knows. Paper review splits are still a thing.

Starting point is 00:15:05 You know, we used to talk about this all the time on 83 weeks. If you ordered a pay-per-view from WCW back in the day, and let's say it was $30, roughly $15 went to WCW, and the other $15 was chopped up amongst the different cable systems. Well, with the streaming, you sort of get your arms around that a little easier. And if you're trying to position yourself for a streaming opportunity, having these quote-unquote premium live events, would, in theory, drive more subscribers, right? Wouldn't you imagine that could be a piece of this?

Starting point is 00:15:38 Yeah, and if you go way back, way back, Wilbur? That was for Mr. Ed, by the way. I got it. I grew up with Mr. Ed, believe it or not. Did you really? I ended up with a palomino horse because of Mr. Ed. Really? Yeah, lucky my horse was a palomino, just like Mr. Ed.

Starting point is 00:15:58 actually that was a coincidence but it sounded like a good story here's yes and i want to go back to something i said when i think you and i were discussing the rumor or the potential of AEW landing on tbs that's how far back this comment goes of you sleuths out there want to dig back into the archives and find my exact quote, I will be forever in your debt, not really in your debt, but I'll be very appreciative. I said that if I was Tony Khan, and it's again, right in the very beginning, I would not put all my resources into, forget about television, put, if I had the resources that Tony Khan had, I would have put it all into building my streaming platform. I would have not wasted time on television. I would have gone after streaming.

Starting point is 00:16:58 opportunity, build my own if necessary, and promote the hell out of it. You want the real alternative to WWE? Here it is. And make it only available on a streaming platform, because streaming is the future. There's no question about it. It's now. And your television is dying a slow and it's accelerating. The death of traditional linear television is dying in a more rapid pace now than it was 18 months ago. So we all know that. That's not a secret. We've all known that for a long time. The deterioration of the television, linear television audience has been documented for a long time.

Starting point is 00:17:36 If you know that going in and you're launching a new property that you want to have value in, why not grow it where the business is going rather than where the business has been? Because the wrestling audience will find you. And I know people say, yeah, but you're going to get on TV and you've got to build up that audience before you can move to streaming. Traditionally, I guess, that's probably true. But what people fail to realize or value enough is that the wrestling audience will seek you, find you, discover you, and brag about you more than any other form of entertainment, in my opinion. just the wrestling audience is so loyal so obsessed and they're so easy to reach as as an audience meaning between television and or streaming the internet i mean if you look at the sheer

Starting point is 00:18:38 volume of wrestling narrative and quite you know back and forth and traffic all around wrestling the internet is just such an easy place to find that audience and promote and market to. But the reason I liked that idea back then is because, well, twofold. One is it kind of creates this velvet rope, meaning you've got to kind of take an extra step to enjoy the product, meaning you can't just turn on your television. You've got to belong to a club. you've got to have a subscription.

Starting point is 00:19:20 You're making an extra commitment to this alternative way of enjoying what you love. It's a version of the Velvet Rope Theory. That being the Velvet Rope Theory being for probably some of our audience that are too young to remember the Studio 54 kind of phenomenon

Starting point is 00:19:35 that was taking place all over the country where you'd have Bellman's stand. By the way, I think a lot of these clubs that did this were suffering and not able to attract a crowd, but you put a red carpet, a velvet rope, with a couple big, cool-looking, dressed-up door guys out there. They're picking and choosing who gets to get in.

Starting point is 00:19:54 That's creating a club. That's making it a meritocracy in terms of who gets to come to this club. And it absolutely is a photo. So I think by creating that streaming platform first, they would have set themselves up, AEW, for where they're at now, which is, holy shit, we may not be, our television partner may not be interested. We've got to beef up our pay-per-views, we've got a more robust streaming schedule and revenue stream so that we can offer that to our potential television partner. That

Starting point is 00:20:33 planning could have happened five years ago. And I think if the, if the investment would have been made, and I'm not saying at the exclusion of television, sure, go ahead, pursue a TV deal. But don't make that your priority, make your streaming platform your priority. Instead of all this YouTube crap and having rampage and collision and all this linear television programming that, number one, takes your focus off your core product. Number two, takes away resources so you're not really capable of thinking about creating great characters, great storylines. You're forced to keep throwing things up against the wall because of the sheer volume that you have to create in order to serve three different television shows when two of the three aren't even really working. right put that emphasis into your streaming platform right now you'd be having a different conversation about who's going to be the next partner with AEW and instead of it being

Starting point is 00:21:28 Fox Sports One or some of the more I guess obvious potential candidates in linear television we'd be probably talking perhaps talking about Amazon right and about some of the other big streaming platforms because they would have built this amazing streaming platform audience on their own without any help and they're offering that up instead you get to go to your next pitch meeting if indeed it happens and it's not a foregone conclusion yet but if for example AEW is no longer on WBD where are they going to go and what do they have to sell a failed five-year effort on WBD with a ton of promotion and prime time that doesn't sound good in a meeting But if they were able to walk into that meeting and say, yeah, but we've got, you know, 750,000 or 500,000 or 200,000 or 200,000, whatever the number is, monthly subscribers to our streaming platform, that's a different conversation.

Starting point is 00:22:32 So there you go. Here's my thought on that. Let's have a different conversation about 2024. Step into 2024 with confidence thanks to Manscaped, where resolutions are met and hairs are neatly kept. As the New Year approaches, why not make sense? self-improvement of breeze by keeping your body well groomed. Introducing the Performance Package 5.0 Ultra, the ultimate all-inclusive kit designed to help you feel clean, cut, and confident as you should.

Starting point is 00:23:00 Featuring the powerhouse lawnmower 5.0 Ultra, the next generation trimmer ensures precision and ease when tackling your toughest hairs. So kick off 2024 with a trim above the rest and use the code 83 weeks at Manscape.com for percent off and free shipping. Man, the highlight for me in 2023 was definitely seeing all of the WWE TKO news. But the highlight in my ball world, wait, what am I talking about? Listen, let's all have a new year's resolutions to step into the new year looking and feeling as good as we can. Manscape can be a big part of that because there's a lot of stuff that people don't want to talk to you about like your damn nasty ass nose and ear hairs. Well, the weed whacker 2.0 can

Starting point is 00:23:46 care of all that. It's all included in this kit, not just the lawnmower, but the weed wacker too. So you can take care of your upstairs, your downstairs, your nose hairs. How about that? The crop soother ball after shave lotion. That's right. Crop so suzer ball after shave lotion. I mean, if you've never had ball after shave, what are you doing with your life? It's 2024. Crop Preserver also has anti-chafeing ball deodorant and two free gifts. By the way, what's cool about the new lawnmore if you've got one of the old lawnmowers man get with the program the new one has two that's right two interchangeable skin safe blade heads one is for taking a little off the top and the other foil blade that's brand new lets you go smooth it's also waterproof too

Starting point is 00:24:35 and they threw in two free gifts as a part of this package you got the boxers and the shed 2.0 toiletry bag resolutions come and go but a well groomed view is here to stay manscaped can make it happen for you. So start the new year right. When you look good, you feel good. And Manscaped wants to help you sculpt the best version of yourself for 2024.

Starting point is 00:24:55 New year, new you, and definitely a new tremor. Manscaped got all your grooming resolutions covered. Get 20% off and free shipping. Just use our code 83 weeks at manscape.com. That's 20% off with free shipping at manscape.com. Just use the code 83 weeks.

Starting point is 00:25:13 Happy New Year's to your balls. So listen, man. want to talk to you a little bit about what you said there because you said almost like wrestling fans you didn't say it exactly like this if you build it they will come if it's good content they'll go out of their way to find it i'm living proof of that i have the freaking ecu arena sign behind me for all of our broadcasts and that show came on and in guntersville alabama at like one in the morning but i found it and and that's the story you know if fans really want to find it and really want to see it they'll watch it but i've had conversations

Starting point is 00:25:46 over the years with people who work for Impact Wrestling, and they would say things like, man, I just wish more people would watch our show. And I agree with that. I think, you know, for a while now, they've been one of the best kept secrets in wrestling. They have good stories. They have a good presentation. They have great wrestlers. They have great matches. If you're a wrestling fan, you will love what Impact Wrestling is doing. However, it does feel like not enough fans are watching it. It doesn't feel like it's doing Gangbuster's business. And I can't really put my finger on why I can maybe it's not a secret maybe it's consumer confidence but my point is the thing I hear from folks there sometimes is man I just wish we were on a better station like a bigger station

Starting point is 00:26:27 one that had was in more households and things like that but I like you I don't think that matters anymore I think online could totally be the way to go I mean when you take a look at someone like impact do you think they would be better served having everything on a streaming platform or is it too late? And I asked that because I wonder, is it too late for AEW to do that now, too? I think back like at double or nothing, the very first pay-per-view AEW did in 2019,

Starting point is 00:26:56 if they were not hoping and aiming and positioning for a television deal and instead just rolled out, they had some new app and it was all streaming, you would have gotten a lot of subscriptions because people were just curious. But now that they've seen the show for free and people, it doesn't feel like it's growing. It feels like it's plateaued, as you would say. I don't know that people are going to be so apt to just come out of pocket.

Starting point is 00:27:23 It feels like if that's the move, they got to find a way to get hot again. And if they knew how to get hot again, they'd be hot right now, right? That's the tricky part of this, right? And in fairness to Tony Con and AEW, this is 2020 hindsight to a degree. Although I did suggest this five years ago. um but that therein lies the challenge you know and one of the reasons why i was so vocal two years ago when i said tony shut up and wrestle this is my way of saying focus on your business quit worrying about wwe quit referencing wwee quit trying to create the illusion that you're

Starting point is 00:28:09 at WWE, and if you look, or better than WWE, but if you look at the period of time between two years ago when I made that statement and now, AEW has lost confidence. There is more negative chatter now about AEW than there's ever been. And as a result, I think a certain part of the audience would be reluctant to give AEW another chance. In other words, wipe the slate clean. Let's not pretend the last couple of years happen. Let's just, this is a reset, right? So if AEW said, this is an entirely new reset, we've got a different product, a different presentation, a different way of doing things. This is not what you're used to. This is something completely different. There's a large part of the audience

Starting point is 00:28:57 that would give them the chance, right? But there's a certain percentage of the audience that we don't think so, overpromised, underdelivered for far too long. that's where the loss of goodwill becomes really important. And you heard me talking about loss of goodwill a number of times on this show. AEW had so much goodwill before their first day of production. The wrestling audience was so tired of only having WWE. They wanted an alternative. It was just part of their physiologic makeup.

Starting point is 00:29:38 up. They just wanted it so bad they could feel it, taste it. And then AEW came out. And for a long period of time, they could do no wrong. Because people were forgiving, including myself, by the way. It's a new company. They're growing pains. Just took the training wheels off. Come on, give me a chance. Give a chance. It'll be fine. They're growing. It's different. Yay. It's scratching that. Give us something different itch. But over a period of time, through a series of, you know, it's death by a thousand cuts. It was nothing really big, no one moment that probably turned the audience off en masse, but gradually it's death by a thousand cuts, the over-promising under-delivering, the over-hype under-delivering.

Starting point is 00:30:19 That's a big part of it. And then just the rest of the stuff, the CM Punk, Mishigas, all the crazy stuff that's happened drama-wise, and it's still going on to a degree, all of that has made the audience lose a little bit of faith in the product. and some members of the audience a great deal of faith, including me, by the way. I just, I have no faith in AEW. I see nothing that suggests to me that anything is going to be different in the foreseeable future. So I'm just not interested in it as a result.

Starting point is 00:30:49 I think I'm probably not alone, but there was that point in time when they had all of that goodwill all in, for example, and even shortly thereafter, where that goodwill would have been so valid. valuable in terms, because you would have gotten people signing up for that streaming platform right and left. You'd probably have a couple hundred thousand people. No doubt. That would have signed up for your $9.99 a month or $10.99 a month or $12.99 a month. I don't know what the price point tolerance would be for weekly television on a streaming platform because it's different than what the WWE would have to offer. But I think it would have been high and I think the price point tolerance would have been much higher than people would think normally.

Starting point is 00:31:33 but I think that opportunity is gone. Could they do it? Yes. Short answer. My God, did I give you a long-winded answer or response? Well, let's say this too, though. Just realistically, just as the kids are saying these days,

Starting point is 00:31:47 that math ain't mathed. You know, if you got 200,000 subscribers who are paying $10 a month, not being silly, that's $2 million a month. So that's $24 million a year. They're getting more than that from Turner. And then they've got pay-per-view on top.

Starting point is 00:32:02 So, you know, it would have been a money loser compared to where they are right now. I don't know the profit was ever paramount for anybody in this equation. It feels like they were looking for the long term play, not necessarily the short term dollar. But I do agree with you that, you know, the next way to make big money in all of entertainment is not necessarily to get a deal with one of these other systems,

Starting point is 00:32:28 but to create your own. So it's sort of to own, to own the content is one thing. but to own the delivery mechanism like the way people receive it that's the big value to me like to have both like it's one thing to have a successful youtube show it's another to own youtube and if you can have both of those man now now you've really you've really done something and i'm i'm pulling for them i um i like you think it will be tough to win back that consumer confidence. But I do think it's possible. Take a look at the way we were talking about

Starting point is 00:33:05 WWB and their product 18 months ago and the way we're looking at it now. It is totally different. Like they are hotter than ever. And that was not the case two years ago. But it is the case now. So it can be done. It is going to be challenging. And it's going to be challenging with some of the the news that's going out, and I guess we should talk about it, a lot of folks are leaving AEW. A lot of AEW originals. We've mentioned before, Keith Mitchell, no longer there. He was a day one guy. Kevin Sullivan, no longer there. He was a day one guy. More recently, QT Marshall, no longer there, day one guy. Dana Massey, who is Matt Jackson's wife she was sort of running merch no longer there she was day one but perhaps the thing that

Starting point is 00:33:59 you know i have sort of tiptoed around because he's my real life friend i was shocked to hear that raphael morphy is leaving that news is out there now i didn't feel like it was cool to talk about until it was out there but he's got a new gig he's going to be starting in january and i'm thrilled for him personally and his family and what that means for them it's really a dream scenario for him high fives all around at the Morphy household this holiday but man it makes me scratch my head and say who the shit can you just plug in there i mean respectfully that's not that's not there's not a lot of people in the wrestling space who have experience here i don't mean to diminish but there are other camera guys there are other people you can put in a truck there are there

Starting point is 00:34:47 are certainly a lot of other wrestlers but a guy who's booking buildings and has those relationships and understands how to do it and when to do it and where to do it. And I know that there's a lot of people and I thought this was maybe not fair. But I saw a lot of people when I saw the news come out, Eric, saying, oh, good, because that's been a problem with AEW. As if AEW is not selling tickets because they booked the wrong building. What? That's not real. I'm not saying it's not an important part of the equation, but I saw lots of criticism for the diminishing ticket sales and people sort of pointing their finger at Raphael Morphy.

Starting point is 00:35:24 And I'm like, uh, guys, they didn't buy a ticket because they didn't want to see it. He doesn't, he can't affect that. Like, yes, it matters where you are and how it's routed and all that. But that's from a cost standpoint, from a forward facing. I don't give a damn if the concerts down the mountain or across the county. If I don't want to see it, I don't want to see it. I think this Raphael Morphy departure is a big deal because it feels like you've got to look outside of the wrestling business and I'm not saying that's a bad thing but I am thinking this is

Starting point is 00:35:56 a much bigger story than maybe some people realize what say you I agree on all fronts you didn't say one thing there that I would have to take exception to um I think to your point about you know the internet reaction of you know plotting the departure of Raphael because he was the problem, I think that's a pretty typical example of the collective intelligence of the internet wrestling audience. I don't mean native intelligence in terms of being able to do other things outside of wrestling, but those who don't know anything about the business of the wrestling business would make a comment like that, right? If you've never done it, if you've never been even tangentially related to a promotion or promoter, whether it's rock and roll or wrestling or

Starting point is 00:36:50 ice capades it doesn't fucking matter it's the same business just different entertainment different content but the problem is not with who's ever booking rafel is one of the best yeah absolutely one of the best and you you listen to the attributes there with someone you know it would take for someone to step into that role relationships are at the top of that list absolutely relationships with the right management not necessarily the top management but the right management, the people that can get things done, maybe they're, maybe they're not even VPs, they're directors, but they get the job done and you know they can get it done because whoever their boss is has a ton of confidence in them. Those relationships can make

Starting point is 00:37:37 or break that business or lack thereof when it comes to relationships. That's going to be really, really tough. And even if you find somebody from outside of the wrestling business who has those relationships, now the challenge is you've got to teach them how to sell your product. Right. That's another, that's a double whammy. So it's going to be really tough. I don't know what the impact is going to be, but I think overall, if you look at the list of people that have left, As positive as I can say this, positively as I can say this, it's one of two things. It's either management, i.e. Tony Kahn and whoever he listens to or manages with, looking at what they're doing and going, you know what, this isn't working. we need to make wholesale changes.

Starting point is 00:38:37 Or it's a lot of really quality people, talented people who have been trying who are just throwing in the towel. They're done. They realize that they can't, they can't make things any better. So depending on which scenario it is, and I don't think there's, you know,

Starting point is 00:38:57 I don't think there's a middle ground. I think it's one or the other. if Tony is making decisions, and yes, on the surface, maybe they look a little aggressive, maybe they may not look like the greatest decisions, but if he's made the decision, we need to reset, we need to approach our business differently. And in order to do that, I need some fresh bodies in those chairs. Okay. Give them credit.

Starting point is 00:39:22 It's a risk, but it's a move. But if it's the other way, and you just got people going, can't do it. it tired boom going to go on to something else that's a big problem well i don't know which it is well i don't i don't know for sure which one it is either i mean i've had conversations with a couple of those it's probably not hard for people to figure out who i'm friends with over there and and and all that but i know that change is inevitable jeff jerry talks about that on his podcast all the time and i think if you take a look back and you look at all the decisions and all the departures and all the moving and going through

Starting point is 00:40:02 wwee over the years i don't necessarily think that a lot of this is caused for concern i think some of this is contracts were up at the end of the year and i think another part is you know there's got to be i think you're on to something there has to be a sense of frustration and there has to be some change and i think change from the top down is a good thing you know like um again i'm not saying this is what's happening, but I'm saying you're at least familiar, Eric, when there's a head coaching change. When a new head coach comes in, what's he like to do? He likes to bring in his people. And I think you might be seeing some of that here. And that's okay. I mean, like, we know

Starting point is 00:40:45 that there's been some really nice additions. We talked about Keith Mitchell leaving. Well, you and I both think the world of Mike, Mike Mansori, and he's there. And so I have complete faith and confidence in what he's doing and what he's working on. And I do think. think that anytime something is a startup, you know, and that's what this was. It's no longer a startup, but that's the way it started. Everybody just has to sort of find their footing and find a new normal. And then they create their culture and their environment. And it winds up being a better fit. Because when something doesn't exist and it only exists in our minds, we all probably have in our mind's eye what we expect that to be. And then we actually do it and we see what the

Starting point is 00:41:27 reality is and that might not line up. So I view a lot of this in that way where, you know, the original, the way AEW people thought of AEW before it launched and then what AEW is now are probably two totally different things for everyone involved. So the Dana Massey's and the Kevin Sullivan's and the QT Marshalls and the Raphael Morpies, that was a different AEW that they signed up for. And it really existed only in their mind now that they've done it they've got the benefit of knowing what's real and what's not and making a decision and i'm looking forward to what's next for a w i don't think they're on death's door i know a lot of people are thinking that this is you know perhaps the beginning of the end of a w i don't believe

Starting point is 00:42:12 that i think i think tony con's in it for the long haul it's now we just find out over the next 12 or 18 months at what level would you agree with that i don't know if i do or not i mean i think Tony's in it for the long haul, but I think there's a good chance that that long haul is going to be really, really long, hard, and for the most part, obscure. He's going to be fighting underneath from underneath for a long time. I say this, let me make it simple. If, in fact, they lose WBD, Warner Brothers Discovery, if they're no longer part of that platform, I'm not sure where they're going to go. It's going to be a smaller cable outlet.

Starting point is 00:43:02 I don't see a big cable outlet. And this whole thing with Paramount and WBD, I mean, that's such a wildcard. I can't even begin to imagine what the kind of variables that's going to throw into the equation. It could be really good for AW. Maybe whatever that is, the Paramount WBD thing, if it actually becomes a reality,

Starting point is 00:43:25 because it's too soon to know. if it's real or not. But if it becomes a reality and there's a merger there, it could either be the absolute stake through the heart of AEW or it could be the golden ticket. We just, we don't know. But in the case where it's not the golden ticket and AEW finds itself on the outside looking in and WWE is now the television partner for Paramount WBD or whatever that ends up looking like, I don't know where Tony's going to go because the world is getting so small, vertical integration. You're looking at probably two or three companies that own everything. You know, where are you going to go? What cable outlet are you going to go to

Starting point is 00:44:06 that isn't owned by NBC Universal, Paramount? You know, I mean, where are you going? And what do you have to sell? Not much. Here's what you get to sell. Hey, we're on to return, you know, for five years and prime time. And over the last five years, our audience has deteriorated. But we want to be on your network. Yeah. That's not a good. I don't want to sell that. I wouldn't want to be the person decided to try to sell that story. I want to talk to you about their ad sales team, but before we do, I want to talk about something that's important, especially this time of year where a lot of us are getting ready for those New Year's resolutions. I want to talk about pre-diabetes because this is something that is plaguing a lot of people in my life and a lot of people are

Starting point is 00:44:52 internet wrestling community. In fact, like 96. million people here in America more than one in three have pre-diabetes and of those like 80% don't know they have it I think this is important for us all to be paying attention to in the new year I know I am and my wife was really blown away with our sponsor Cygnos because we vet every sponsor here on the show and when they sent this to our house she opens all the mail because normally respectfully all the boxes are for her this box was for me and she opened it and she said oh my god this is a real medical device my wife for those of you who don't know does medical research she was blown away at how authentic

Starting point is 00:45:34 and how real deal this signos program is let me explain how it works and why it matters foods high in carbohydrates raise your blood sugar more than other foods during digestion the pancreas produces insulin which then binds the sugar in the blood and takes it into cells as a source of energy. Now, if you have pre-diabetes, sugar begins to build up in the bloodstream rather than fuel the cells. And this is when insulin resistance occurs, which is believed to be the number one cause of pre-diabetes.

Starting point is 00:46:04 A healthy weight allows insulin to work more efficiently and can help to keep blood sugars within a normal range. A healthy diet and regular exercise are the best way to bring your blood sugar levels back into a healthy range. But Cygnos can help you short-circuit this cycle by using data directly. from your body to design a weight loss program that's unique to your lifestyle. And Signos is the only company that combines a CGM, which is what my wife was so impressed with, a continuous glucose monitor with an AI-driven app to deliver real-time glucose monitoring

Starting point is 00:46:39 for optimal health and weight management. With Signos, you can literally see which foods cause your blood sugars to spike above reasonable levels and get real-time alerts to do a bit of exercise and bring them back down. You'll learn the difference between stress eating and physical hunger. You'll be able to better manage your energy throughout the day and sleep better at night. And you can meet your weight loss and health goals with unique data that is unique to you. I really believe in this. My wife is totally sold on it. I know that you've been trying it. I can't wait to hear what your experience has been with Cignos, Eric.

Starting point is 00:47:14 A hundred percent transparency here. I had, because I've been traveling, I haven't gotten actually signed up yet. I mean, I'm signed up. I haven't actually downloaded the app and gone into business with signals yet. Here's why I'm excited to do it. As many people know that have been following me, I did the five-day water fast, right, which was phenomenal for me. And there's a reason I'm telling you all this.

Starting point is 00:47:47 Okay, this all ties together. So bear with me. But I did that Waterfest for a couple of reasons. One is I wanted to challenge my own level of discipline because I felt like discipline was something that was lacking in my everyday life. I've just gotten too comfortable. And my wife said something to me right over Thanksgiving and made a comment that comfort is a thief.

Starting point is 00:48:07 And I thought about that. And it's like a light bulb went off. I've just not challenged myself enough. and I haven't focused on my discipline enough. So I did the five-day water fast. Here's what I discovered during the five-day water fast. Because I wasn't taking any in any food, my blood sugar leveled out at an amazing level.

Starting point is 00:48:29 Now, I don't know what it was because this is before we got signals. So I don't know what it was. But I did immediately notice that by not spiking my blood sugar throughout the day, as ironic as it sounds, and I'm not convincing people to go, do a five-day water fast. That's why I'm telling you the story. But for me, because I wasn't doing it to lose weight, I wasn't doing it for any other reason other than to challenge my own level of discipline and to see how it made my body feel. I had more energy, more focus, a higher sense of

Starting point is 00:49:02 well-being because I wasn't spiking my blood sugar throughout the day. Oh, and guess what? Now that I'm off their five-day water fast and I'm doing a carnivore diet. I eat nothing but meat and meat product. My sleep is so intense and so deep. I dream constantly now. I used to dream occasionally because I didn't fall into what's called a REM sleep or rapid eye movement, which occurs when you get into the deepest level of sleep. But that's also when dreams occur. I dream all night long now. I go to bed immediately. I fall asleep immediately after going to bed. I wake up in the middle of a dream when my alarm goes off and such deep sleep. And it's not because of the water fast. It's because my blood sugar didn't spike. And now that I'm continuing on that

Starting point is 00:49:50 methodology with the carnivore diet because there's no sugar, no carbohydrates, right? I'm not taking in any carbohydrates. My energy's off the charts. I have focus. I have this heightened sense of well-being continuing after the water fast, and it's because I'm not eating any carbs. I'm very sensitive to carbs. If I eat a candy bar, I've been this way all my life. If I sat down and ate a candy bar right now, even though I slept for 10 hours last night, deep sleep as well, if I ate a candy bar right now in 45 minutes, I'd be sleeping on the couch. It has the exact opposite effect on me as it has on a lot of people. A lot of people eat carbs in candy for energy. I'll go, yeah, this is great, and I'm out. Managing, monitoring your blood sugar levels is probably the best thing

Starting point is 00:50:39 you can do for yourself. It will change your life. And I'm not going to talk about all the medical reasons why you should do it because I'm not a doctor, but do your own research and understand what managing your blood sugar levels and your insulin levels can do for you. As Conrad, you just pointed out, a lot of people have pre-diabetes. Don't even know. it and they won't find out until it's too late and then they're on drugs and then they're on it's you can not only avoid that you can reverse some of those those situations by monitoring your blood sugar it's so so vitally important that I encourage you to check it out it will literally there's very few things you can do that can change your life immediately but monitoring your

Starting point is 00:51:28 blood sugar and what you're eating and how it affects you is one thing that you're in 100% control of and you can do it. Cignos removed the guesswork of weight loss and provided me with the tools and knowledge I needed to develop healthier habits. It combines my glucose data from the CGM or continuous glucose monitor with the AI driven app to deliver me real-time glucose insights for optimal health and weight management. And right now, Cignos has an offer exclusively for our listeners. go to Cygnos.com, that's S-I-G-N-O-S dot com, and get 20% off plans selecting our code

Starting point is 00:52:06 83 weeks. That's Cygnos.com and use the code 83 weeks. You'll get 20% off select plans today. That's S-I-G-N-O-S.com. Be sure to use our code 83 weeks. You'll get 20% off select plans today. So listen, man, let's talk about the sales arm of A-W. and then I do want to start talking about 2023,

Starting point is 00:52:30 I feel like perhaps now more than ever, because you have said on Strictly Business, you've made it pretty clear that you think that AEW is in jeopardy of losing their Warner Brothers Discovery deal. And if that winds up being the case, these things like having a streaming app and all of that really makes sense to have in your back pocket. But I almost wonder,

Starting point is 00:52:51 I don't know what the inside of AEW looks like from a corporate structure or what their full team is or how many people they're up to or any of the staff details. But I know that that WWE has a full flown sales division like multiple people, a whole team out selling trying to generate revenue. And that is apparent when you take a look at any premium live event or any TV show. I mean, they've got bumpers coming in and out. And I know a lot of people who are watching this think, well, the television stations sell

Starting point is 00:53:24 that. That's not the case. if it's program if it's an ad inside the program that's something sold by wbd if there is if there's something on a ring skirt or on the canvas or around the ring or the posts or whatever or there's product placement on the the media scrum or there's a logo behind them at the media scrum that was all sold by w that wasn't sold by usa that wasn't sold by fox that was sold by w and i can't help but wonder right now In 2024, if I'm Tony Kahn, I'm thinking, I got to beef up my sales team.

Starting point is 00:54:00 Would you agree with that? Absolutely. I mean, that's inherent to the wrestling business. Again, it's unique. Wrestling is a unique product because you have so much inventory. You have so much programming content that you can have sponsored. There's so many different ways to do that. But you're absolutely right, Conrad, the television network isn't going to sell that

Starting point is 00:54:25 for you. Television ad execs typically will sell demos and numbers. Right. That's it. That's all they're selling. They don't, they don't have the kind of creative perspective on what can be done inside the programming arm so they can go to, let's say, the manufacturer of this coffee cup and say, okay, Mr. Coffee Cup maker, we want to sell you, I don't know, a flight of 30 second ads in AEW programming, and you're not only going to get the commercial time, but we're going to highlight your particular coffee cup across these different opportunities within the program, which has a value of X, because you could put a valuation on that. There's a formula, whatever.

Starting point is 00:55:15 And now you're not only selling an ad, you're selling in-show content to support that ad. So it's not just an ad that people tune out of. They see that it's part of your show. It has more value. But unless you have a team of people that know how to sell wrestling, because they've been doing it for a while, you're not getting that opportunity. Now, the same thing, the same issue that you pointed out with Raphael,

Starting point is 00:55:43 in terms of replacing him, is going to exist when it comes to selling the AEW product in the marketplace. You've got to have people that. really know how to sell it that have experience that understand the objections before they pick up the phone to prospect a call they know what they're going to hear and they know how to overcome it that is going to be hard to find it is going to be hard to find and uh i think it's going to be more important in 2024 than ever before but let's talk about 2023 man what a crazy year it is i guess now here we are like an hour in we're going to

Starting point is 00:56:23 to talk about our year in review and when 2023 really began the rumor and innuendo really started to get cranked up about Vince McMahon trying to return to his company as you'll recall he did the whole retirement if you will in 2022 that was during the summer but fast forward and we started here in January Vince is trying to come back the result was Stephanie resigning as being a I guess her temporary post of the co-CEO people were a buzz about what does this mean I don't think anybody would have predicted well it means that Vince is positioning himself for a merger in a few months and then immediately perhaps being pushed out depending on who you believe but even when he said he was coming back I

Starting point is 00:57:19 I mean, the statement was, well, he's not coming to the office. Okay, well, he is coming to the office, but he's only coming to the office to try to work on a merger or a sale. I mean, that whole thing went wild this time a year ago. And Stephanie has been out for the entire year. Were you surprised to see Stephanie move away from WWE in a formal official capacity? I really was. I, and I can't put my finger on why.

Starting point is 00:57:49 It's just such an overall assumption on my part that she would have never left. I know it's a publicly held company, and, you know, especially now that they merge. It's a different company altogether, but I never saw, first of all, I never saw Vince leaving. Okay, there's some extenuating circumstances involved in that whole scenario. But I certainly never saw Stephanie leaving the business. just didn't. Number one, she's so good for the industry. Yes. She's incredibly smart. Just a few moments ago, I was talking about, you know, salespeople that really understand how to overcome the objections and present the product in a way that makes people want to be involved in it. Find me

Starting point is 00:58:39 somebody better than Stephanie McMahon. Right. Qualified that job. And I'm not talking about Stephanie as a salesperson. I'm talking about Stephanie as an executive representing the brand. The fact that a powerful, attractive, super intelligent, accomplished young woman is the head of a publicly held sports entertainment company, I don't think you could create a better scenario than that. So to see her walk away from it with really no explanation other than she want to spend more time with family, which is fine. right yeah and i think that's a question right is that really it is that really why she walked away or is there some other reason i don't know of course there's another reason come on man well we don't know that well listen the rumor in innuendo is you know they had to dig through absolutely everything and with vince's side business that had to be tough you know the

Starting point is 00:59:49 person who's going to be reviewing all that and helping make a decision is his own daughter that's a that's a tough deal is it not you don't think she knew about look rins has been vince for a long time stephanie's an adult do you think she was shocked by any of that yep really yeah absolutely 100% okay i i mean listen i know a lot of people who are listening to this think of these people as television characters they're real human beings from a real family and they're real I mean that had to be I just can't imagine like it's hard for I know that people listen to this and they think they're just no chance in hell billionaire strut down to the ring but that's a real dude it's a real husband it's a real dad and I can't

Starting point is 01:00:39 imagine that dynamic and how challenging and how stressful that would be for any family for the person who has to really dig into the ugly or dark side of anyone's personality and that person who has to review it all as your own child, man. I mean, listen, everybody listening to this is. You know, Conrad, I got to tell you, I didn't really think of it from that perspective, but I can see why you're probably right. That's just, just listening to you, lay that out and trying to put myself in, Stephanie's shoes, even for a second, that would be really tough. So you're probably right. I just

Starting point is 01:01:21 assume that she, look, Vince's reputation has preceded him for decades. Yes. So I would have just assumed that she would have just gone on. That's another example of dad being dad or some version thereof. But seeing it, reviewing it, the gory details of it could have had. And you're probably right. How do you not think about your mom? I know it's just dad being dead. That's one thing to say, but like, I mean, everybody knows who I'm married to and their family circumstance. It hurts every time.

Starting point is 01:01:55 Yep. It doesn't go away. It doesn't get easier. It doesn't get better. And I'm not saying you had any of this in your life at all. I'm not making that insinuation. I'm saying if there was something like that, the last person you'd want to have to go through every specific detail is Montana.

Starting point is 01:02:11 You'd be like, man, ain't no way. I do I cut a I cut a handoff for that not to happen like or so are somebody else's or somebody else's so I just hate that and I think sometimes you know we as wrestling fans we're just we're so far removed for it we're in our little wrestling bubble right that we just think about it that way it's like hey these are real real people and I mean I I get why she would be like oh if he's coming back I'm gonna go home I just let me just be mom you know I don't have to do any of this I'm financially okay let me just take care of my family for a bit and Lord bless her because I think the world over like you do and by the way I'm not sitting here throwing dirt on Vince this is all public record stuff I mean goodness gracious I just I want people to remember hey these are real people real human beings um we saw a real human being do something pretty spectacular at the Royal Rumble Cody Rhodes returned from a torn pectoral after a gutsy hell in a cell performance against Seth Rollins the year before probably shouldn't have done the match but

Starting point is 01:03:12 he did and he came back and in glorious fashion put on a clinic at the royal rumble what a triumphant return a really cool moment in his story if you will he's victorious on his quest to finish the story of a Rhodes finally becoming w w.E champion and that show is probably most well known that royal rumble show not only for cody winning but the phenomenal piece of business with sammy zane and the bloodline. It's crazy to think that was a year ago, but we had two guys hotter than ever. Cody back to finish the story. Sammy Zane had been the straw that stirs the drink for so long. And when he hit Roman with that chair, the crowd response was like an all-time pop.

Starting point is 01:04:05 I mean, WWV had an incredible year. And when you think they started the year with that show and that crowd reaction they were off to the races where they know it i think this may have been the most exciting year ever of wwe wow as a whole now that's hard from i i don't know how much value my comment or my opinion is has because i you know it's hard for me to go back and remember the early 80s and that was a significant time in the industry there's no question about it that was probably one of the most important periods in modern day professional wrestling, modern day since the 60s, okay, just because of the impact that the WWE had on the television landscape by making, by evaporating the territories, eliminating all the competition, eliminating the

Starting point is 01:05:01 territories, presenting his product at a national level, cross cable, breaking into the pay-per-view business when they did. All of those things made W. WW is such a juggernaut in the early 80s. But in terms of quality of content, I don't think you could compare any other 12-month period, the 12-month period that we've just witnessed to any other 12-month period in wrestling history, more or less WWE history.

Starting point is 01:05:32 It's just been phenomenal. And it's the big things that we're all talking about, including Cody Rhodes right now, and Roman Reins and the bloodline and Jay Uso's emergence and all of that. But then you've got the L.A. nights coming out of the woodwork and just exploding onto the scene. There's been so much good stuff in the last 12 months. I'd like to hear. If there's been another 12-month period, I'd like to hear it so I can go back and watch part of it.

Starting point is 01:06:05 you know that attitude era when you were taking a look at you know everything you could do on the wcw side to compete that might be on the list but i'm with you what a phenomenal year this was it felt like a return to form to that era i found myself for years and years just recording raw and recording smackdown and watching and fast forward uh i'm not going to hate watch something if i'm not if i'm not into it i'm going to fast forward it i'm going to slow down watch the stuff that I want to see or if something people are really a buzz about it. I'm going to watch that, but I know there's a lot of long suffering wrestling fans who feel like they're obligated to watch everything like it was their freaking job.

Starting point is 01:06:44 And then they hate it. And it's like, I don't want to do that. But I didn't do that with this storyline. And I was really into the Sammy and Roman reign storyline. And a lot of people were convinced at the time that the WWE was making a mistake. It shouldn't be Cody and Roman at WrestleMania. It should have been Cody, Roman, and Sammy Zane, or maybe just Sammy Zane and Roman. What we got, what we got instead were two incredible main events.

Starting point is 01:07:14 Sammy Zane and Kevin Owens beating the Uso's at night one at WrestleMania in the main event. And then in night two, it was Cody and Roman. With the benefit of hindsight, was that the right call? I know that there's a lot of Sammy Zane fans on the internet wrestling community who believe that, you know, they have intentionally cooled him off. I wouldn't necessarily agree with that. I think it was a part of the story. And I wonder sometimes was Sammy,

Starting point is 01:07:43 there's no doubt that Sammy's an incredible performer, whether it's the promos or the in ring work or the storytelling or any of that stuff. I think he shined brightest when he was a part of the bloodline, when he was a part of that ensemble cast. And I don't think that's a bad thing. I think sometimes we've seen guys who were really successful in a band. And then when they go out and they try their solo career, it's not as effective.

Starting point is 01:08:06 And I wonder, was the highest and best use of Sammy with the bloodline? And if maybe fans feel like he's lost some momentum, is it just because he's on, for lack of a better word, his solo tour? What do you think about Sammy Zane's position in the company? I mean, I've even seen speculation where people say, oh, he must have fallen out of favor with the office. I just don't see that. What say you? Oh, I, you know, I don't know if he's, I doubt that he's fallen out of favor with the office after performances like he provided.

Starting point is 01:08:36 I think of anything, he's got 100% more confidence now than he did prior to his involvement in the bloodline storyline. It's interesting, you know, and I couldn't help but smile when you said some fans think that WWE is intentionally cooling them off. I don't disagree, but not for the same reason. Wouldn't it be spectacular if somehow, and I think Sammy's off TV for a while now, isn't he? He's been off TV for a couple weeks? I think so.

Starting point is 01:09:03 Or I've read that he's going to be. But I think it'd be really interesting to cool him off and almost allow the audience to forget about him until it's time to bring that bloodline story back to the forefront again. Yes. Mrs. B, come in here and say Merry Christmas to everybody. Come on now.

Starting point is 01:09:25 She's getting ready. Hey, hey, there she is. Mrs. B in the house. Merry Christmas. Is everybody ready? Well, ready or not? Here we come. I mean,

Starting point is 01:09:36 as folks are listening to this, it's Christmas day, right? Good to see everyone. Good to see you. She's bringing me more coffee. Isn't that sweet? God,

Starting point is 01:09:46 she's hot. I'm so lucky. Where were we? She distracted me. That guy can sell. You said cool Sammy Zane off for a bit. Yeah, no,

Starting point is 01:09:55 cool them off for a little bit until it's time to bring this whole storyline. Cody, rose thing all back to the forefront again you don't want to do it too soon i wouldn't be surprised if we don't see sammy zane intricately involved in what's coming up for russlemania and if i'm right and it's just a guess but if i'm right the cooling off of sammy zane has been very intentional it has a purpose and it'll have a payoff well i know this uh when he's back that dude's gonna move some merch and we're excited to announce a new

Starting point is 01:10:36 affiliate partnership with fanatics and wwee shop an easy way to support your favorite podcast 83 weeks you can shop official w w year and apparel by using our special ural shop wrestlingmerch dot com that's shop wrestlingmerch dot com or if you're watching along with us on youtube hit that QR code that's up on the screen right now or check out the description below for the link we'll also have it up on all of our socials but it's easy it's shop wrestlingmerge.com and ready or not they're going to have a huge sale tomorrow with christmas in the rearview mirror i'm sure w.We has a bunch of extra swag and man they're going to be discounting a whole bunch of it they always run a sale the day after christmas so tomorrow matter of fact today go

Starting point is 01:11:22 ahead and get your eye on some things and see what you like and then check in tomorrow for the big sale shop wrestling merch.com. You can shop with confidence for your favorite WWE superstar teas, hoodies, caps, the championship belts and more with the WWE shop. Just be sure to use our special link shop wrestlingmerch.com. Not only will you get a great deal, but it also supports the show. Speaking of great deals, I saw the dual-plated winged eagle championship. The fabulous title worn by Hulk Hogan and The Ultimate Warrior and Randy Savage. It was under 200 bucks the other day at Shop Wrestlingmerch.com. That's like half of what it normally is.

Starting point is 01:12:01 There's some great deals to be had and it's going on right now at shop wrestlingmerch.com. So listen, every WWE, PLE, the premium live event, seemed bigger than it seemed the year before. I mean, Peacock was getting bigger and in more homes and more people were signing up. I mean, the whole event business changed with the opportunity to have them on the network and now on Peacock. But I wonder from a business perspective, what do you think of this trend moving away from pay-per-view? Like at this point, you know, a lot of folks, like even a GCW this past year, they were on Fight Plus. You didn't buy the individual pay-per-views. You did a subscription model and then you got them all.

Starting point is 01:12:49 do you think that's the new move that everybody in wrestling is going to wind up doing i mean wb is doing it it feels like a ew could be next is that the future is pay per view as a whole in your opinion dead in wrestling i think it's like living your television it's not dead but it's dying a little more every day yeah and i think you're right i i do think that will be the future because this is your fingertips it's on your phone you can do it instantaneously while you're driving if you have to or why you're riding as a passenger preferably but yeah it's just right there it's on your phone it's at your fingertips it's instantaneous it can be spontaneous you don't have to be sitting in front of your television to do it it's so easy yes i think and and so much

Starting point is 01:13:35 more profitable everybody makes more money it's awesome and the fact that a eW has not done it yet is surprising perhaps he'll do a deal with fightful down the road or somebody else but Why would you wait? What's the advantage in waiting? What's the disadvantage in doing it early? I don't know. Early adopters and technology have a tendency to come out on top as opposed to waiting for everybody else to do it

Starting point is 01:14:05 and kind of following up from behind. So I don't know. It's interesting. But I do agree. I think it's all going to be in our, everything is going to be in our fingertips. Heck, I've seen those. I can monitor my blood sugar on my phone.

Starting point is 01:14:21 Right. I absolutely would want to order pay-per-views that way. I mean, come on. It's a whole new world, man. And it's crazy to think, too, that WWE in January celebrated 30 years of Monday Night Raw. I mean, who would have ever imagined that was a thing? You know, like when that show first started, people were sure it was going to, you know,

Starting point is 01:14:46 collapse. People were sure it wasn't going to, work like it was a total departure from what they've been doing and there's even interviews with paul haman back in the day you know saying that you know he didn't i'm shocked that raw made it 30 years i'll say that i mean you think about how great nitro was and to think man there's like six years at this point raw's 30 years old we're about to be 31 years old that's a hell of a milestone for any show much less wrestling right there are People that show up at wrestling conventions, autographs signings, independent wrestling shows, for sure,

Starting point is 01:15:28 that don't ever remember a time in their lives when Raw hasn't been on television. Think about that. Raw, there are 31-year-old adults with kids of their own walking around today, and Raw has been on literally their entire lives. Is there another television show that can say that? Not a wrestling one for sure. I don't know of any other show that could say. Oh, come on.

Starting point is 01:16:01 Wheel of Fortune. Oh, okay. You're right. You're right. Jeopardy. All those like. Game shows. Young and the Restless and shit like that.

Starting point is 01:16:08 All those soap operas. There's a few. Oh, yeah. You're right. But still, like wrestling. that's unheard of prime time prime time there you go there you go that's different yeah winter winter chicken dinner yeah I love it elimination chamber was another interesting scenario for WWE I mean here's Sammy Zane the white hot baby face hotter than

Starting point is 01:16:29 ever in Montreal Canada his hometown taken on Roman reigns for the WWE title it's right before WrestleMania and Cody has won the right to challenge for the world title. I mean, at the time, there was a lot of debate. What should they do here? Should they make it a big moment and crown Sammy? Should he be the one to end the streak, if you will? With the benefit of hindsight, did they make the right call? I don't know. I don't have a few for that. Ironically. I would say yes, just because of where we're at and where business is at and where the pattern has been for WWE ratings and performance.

Starting point is 01:17:24 How do you, how do you, how do you, how do you, how do you, how do you deny success? I don't know. Um, we'll never know. We know it was a high crowd. I mean, if there's two, uh, crazy moments or crowds that, that existed in this year, I mean, certainly backlash we'll talk about in a minute. But that Royal Rumble crowd for the Sammy turn and then that Montreal crowd, dude, it was something else.

Starting point is 01:17:48 I mean, it was one of those you had to be there type moments. I'm sure. I don't know that it'll still exist in a vacuum. Maybe it will. I haven't sat down and watched it since it happened. But as it was happening, boy, it felt big. It felt special. And in early March, AEW put on their first pay-review revolution.

Starting point is 01:18:04 And boy, it was a special show for MJF. MJF prior to this match with Brian Danielson, it was a 60-minute. Iron Man match for the world title and prior to that match the narrative on MJF is oh he's young and he can talk but he cusses a lot and could they could he really do that in WWE and and he can't hang with the great work rate that exists in AEW the Kenny Omega's the Okotas the Brian Danielsons boy they proved them all wrong there what an incredible match what an incredible Iron Man performance from both Brian Danielson and M. J.F. They both had just spectacular years, but this was an unbelievable match. And I know that

Starting point is 01:18:49 you're big on story, but this was a nice part of MJF's story as well and him overcoming all of these obstacles and things and proving people wrong. I think in my mind, this, this leveled up MJF as more than just a character. Man, he could go to what say you. I agree. I think MJF, we talked about this earlier in the show. I think MJF has established himself across the board as one of the most well-rounded performers of his generation in the industry today. And this is another example of that.

Starting point is 01:19:24 You know, it's one thing to be a great talker. And MJF came out of the shoot, just ripping up his promos. You knew he was good from the get-go. But then to evolve as quickly as he did and then show us what he's capable of technically against someone who was, you know, in Daniel Bryan, probably at the top of people's, you know,

Starting point is 01:19:45 lists of, of in-ring technicians and performers. And to be able to hang and maybe not just hang, maybe perform just as well as someone with the experience in the background, the foundation, Brian Dariuson, just his stock went through the roof as a result of that match. just as WrestleMania weekend was about to start Night 2

Starting point is 01:20:13 Endeavor announced a merger of sorts between WWE and UFC to create TKO and Eric you called it Endeavor is the major winner here looking back this was

Starting point is 01:20:27 probably inevitable but along the way man there were a lot of silly rumors like Saudi and other with the benefit of hindsight this was a big deal that day but now as we take a look and we wonder where does Vince fit into all of this? It feels even bigger, doesn't it? I'm not sure what you mean by it feels bigger.

Starting point is 01:20:57 Well, I just know the story. Like the idea that a merger is one thing. But the way we heard it, it was kind of like, okay, Ari's the big. boss, Dana's going to run UFC, Vince is going to run WWE. Fast forward six months and it feels like Ari's the big boss, Dana's running UFC and respectfully, Nick Conn and Paul are running WWE. It's exactly the way I see it. Yes. Exactly the way I see it.

Starting point is 01:21:29 In fact, Alba and I were talking about this, a version of this yesterday on an updated version of Strictly business. and I again respectfully because I have so much respect for Vince yes in terms of business right you and I wouldn't be sitting here if it wasn't for Vince McMahon end of conversation Tony Kahn wouldn't have a show on a turn of broadcasting if it were not for Vince McMahon Nitro would have not happened really if it had not been for Vince McMahon and what I say that I mean by Vince McMahon proving that wrestling can be a commercially viable entertainment product on cable television had it not been for the success of the wwe i don't think anybody else would be trying to replicate would there be nothing to replicate i i truly believe that so that being

Starting point is 01:22:21 said i think the machinations of the merger and all of the outside influences that affected Vince McMahon publicly talking about the lawsuits and all of the scandal that made things very, very complicated. And in my opinion, I don't want to say Vince is in a figurehead position, but you pointed it out. Nick Kahn is running WWE. Yeah. The business side.

Starting point is 01:22:58 Paul Aveck is running WWE on the creative side. administration is administration those are your two key people that's right i see i see vince in there he has an opinion he's obviously on the board it's an important person but he's not running the show not running the show i again not ceremonial not a figurehead but not far from it and some of that may be his choice i mean maybe i don't know i'm just just Speculation because I certainly don't know Vince McCann well enough to make any kind of observation when it comes to what he might personally be thinking. He's a very, very complex guy. But perhaps because I'm an optimist, perhaps he just realizes that at this stage of his life, his company that he built is in phenomenal hands, largely because of his decisions and choices.

Starting point is 01:23:56 And he's ready to let it grow after him. still attached he's still there but he's not running the ship has the merger gone like you assumed it would have or was that a curveball you didn't see well i certainly didn't see that coming i don't i don't think anybody can honestly say they saw it coming um but i'm not surprised either and i think the merger has created opportunities and benefit that I didn't see coming. Pac-12 sponsorship. Is that what it was, Pac-12?

Starting point is 01:24:36 Yeah. Or no, Big 12. Big 12. Yeah, that was, you know, that's the kind of Nick Con thing that, you know, I didn't anticipate a move like that. Right. But I think we're going to see moves like that and opportunities like that more and more often because Nick Khan is like the silent, deadly ninja that no one saw coming.

Starting point is 01:24:58 five years ago, nobody saw this cat coming. He is powerful. Ari Emanuel is immensely powerful in Hollywood, immensely powerful. But Nick Kahn is not that far behind him. And now you've got both of them together and their reach, their relationships within the industry is going to provide.

Starting point is 01:25:28 big 12 like opportunities that we haven't even contemplated yet those are it's so significant this merger has been so significant in so many ways that it's I can't wait to see what comes next it's going to be interesting let's talk about something that I found interesting and significant and that's the savings I found with rocket money that's something I learned in 2023 that I want to keep going in 2024. I'm such a big believer in this and I got to admit, I thought I was on top of my finances. I thought I had it figured out. And I didn't think I had any leaks. Turns out I was wrong. I mean, if you ever taking a look when you log into your online banking and you think, man, I thought I had more money than that. Well, you were supposed to. But between all the streaming

Starting point is 01:26:18 services and fitness apps and delivery services and parenting apps, there's all these endless things we seemingly sign up for. And a lot of times, forget. forget about it. I'm guilty of this. Rocket money help me find out what subscriptions I'm actually spending money on and man, it was eye opening. I had them cancel the ones I didn't want anymore, just like that. Rocket Money is a personal finance app that finds and cancels your unwanted subscriptions, monitors your spending, and helps you lower your bills. You can see all of your subscriptions in one place and if you see something you don't want, you can cancel it with a tap. You never have to get on the phone with customer service. You don't have to send email.

Starting point is 01:26:57 back and forth. Oh, and check this out. They'll even try to get you a refund for the last couple of months of wasted money and help negotiate to lower your bills for you, oftentimes by up to 20%. All you got to do is take a picture of your bill and Rocket Money takes care of the rest. Rocket Money has over 5 million users and they're helping save its members an average of $720 a year with over 500 million in canceled subscriptions. Listen, this is the real deal. I've signed up for streaming services that my wife signed up for. We both signed up, but we watched TV together. There was another account that existed for years before we discovered Rocket Money. The same thing. I signed up for DeZone to watch a fight. Well, in order

Starting point is 01:27:40 to watch the fight, you had to sign up for the monthly service. I never watched it again after that one fight. I was paying every single month. I was saving hundreds of dollars all because of Rocket money. You can too. So if saving money is going to be like a New Year's resolution for you? Let me give you a little pro tip. Stop wasting money on things you don't use. Cancel your unwanted subscriptions by going to rocketmoney.com slash 83 weeks. That's rocket money.com slash 83 weeks. Rocket money.com slash 83 weeks. So Eric, we talked about WrestleMania night one, night two. We know Sammy Zane is going to get his moment, his revenge on the bloodline, his brother from another mother, Kevin Owens.

Starting point is 01:28:24 Beats the Uso's for the tag straps on night one. And then in night two, and boy, this was controversial. A lot of people felt like it was a foregone conclusion that Roman Raines was going to lose the world title to Cody Road so Cody could finish the story. Well, we know that wound up not being the case. Cody lost and sat in the ring next to a rubber chicken as Roman Raines left with the world title.

Starting point is 01:28:51 And when we talk to people like Kevin Sullivan, He said they got it right. It would have been a mistake. You would have been trying to shove Cody down our throats. He needed to overcome some more triumphs and tragedies. He needed to slay some more dragons. And a lot of people think maybe that's what we're going to do this year. At the time, did you agree with the call to not put it on Cody?

Starting point is 01:29:15 And now eight or nine months later, what do you think of that call? To be really honest. I wasn't happy with the call, but that has a lot more to do with my relationship with the Rhodes family. Yeah. Cody included, but because of my feelings about Dusty and my feelings about, you know, Dustin and I worked with Dusty and I went deer hunting in the mountains of Wyoming together. I mean, my relationship, not so much with Cody because he was so much younger, But still, I have a relationship with Cody.

Starting point is 01:29:56 It's distant, right? It's not close. But because I wanted it for him so badly, perhaps my judgment when it comes to the business side of it, the creative side of business, was a little tainted. I don't know. I may not agree with Kevin Sullivan,

Starting point is 01:30:17 the wrestler Booker, not the production guy, that it was the right decision. I think we'll know in the next three or four weeks, if they start steaming up the Cody Roman story relatively soon, then I think Kevin Sullivan was right. If not, then I think I think it was a mistake. I kind of, I gave him a pass after my initial emotional letdown because of my perceived relationship with the Rhodes family, okay? It's the way I felt.

Starting point is 01:31:06 I felt let down. Now, if they reheated again and it starts meeting even more than it did last year and there's sufficient drama and story and emotion leading up to WrestleMania with Cody and Roman, that was absolutely the best. decision, but if they don't heat it up soon, if they don't make me care to the level that I cared last year, they screwed up and it was a missed opportunity, but only time will tell. You know, I know that it's not, I shouldn't say I know. I don't imagine it's going to happen because I know that he works for AW and he's got his training school and he's doing this thing

Starting point is 01:31:47 and blah, blah, blah. How cool would it be if we could see Dustin be involved in this story, before WrestleMania. Like to seeing Dustin back on WW TV in support of Cody would be such a cool moment and a cool piece of the story. It would make it even bigger and even more real. I don't think it's even possible. I think he's got another contract. But can you imagine how awesome that would make the story?

Starting point is 01:32:12 I mean, it really is a family affair at that point. Dustin has the contract with eight. When was the last time Dustin was on TV? I'm not sure. God, if I'm destined and that opportunity exists, I'm going to have a sit down with Tony, much like Stephen Regal did. I'm going to have a sit down and I'm going to beg, I'm going to, I'm going to, I'm going to, I'm going to sit down and have a conversation with the human side of Tony Con.

Starting point is 01:32:47 And just ask him to do the right thing. And based on what I've heard about Tony, that's. that's a possibility. But for Dustin to have that opportunity, I don't know what Dustin's situation is. Who knows? Perhaps he's on a long-term contract at AEW and it's really helping to pay his bills

Starting point is 01:33:05 and set him up for life and all that. In which case, you don't want to mess that up. That's right. I understand that. But if it's not that meaningful or if it's not going to change his life in a long-term, I'd give up a lot to be a part of my brother's story in WWE.

Starting point is 01:33:22 and completing my father's story in WWE, I would give up a lot for that opportunity financially. At that point, money doesn't really matter that much. Well, he, he's had 10 matches with AEW this calendar year. Uh, he's still under contract, but man, I know it's unlikely. I just think it would be awesome as a fan. I could get excited about it. I could get behind it.

Starting point is 01:33:47 Uh, and something else I could get behind was what happened just a few days after WrestleMania. What a big week, WrestleMania week was when you really think about not just night one and night two of WrestleMania and all the surrounding events, WrestleMania weekend. I mean, there are always a ton of big events, but. And of course, the Hall of Fame and all the other ceremonies. But almost immediately we get the TKO news and then the AEW news. AEW was as announcing here their most ambitious event in company history,

Starting point is 01:34:19 all in from Wembley in London and when I first heard that they were going to do a show a pay-per-view in London I thought well it's about time I mean Tony has a football club over there I'm sure they'll do great T&A used to draw fabulous over there

Starting point is 01:34:36 WDB always has it feels like this is a no-brainer but when I heard Wembley I like a lot of folks assumed oh they're running the arena that's awesome that'll be a great crowd they ran the stadium and when this was first announced there was a lot of mixed messaging online a lot of w e tribalism who was like l-o-l good luck trying to sell even whatever i talked to people who

Starting point is 01:35:01 were really close to the wrestling business and they were saying really smart people man if they could get 30,000 it'd be a home run 40,000 would be a grand slam and man in a perfect world could you imagine if they could do 50 it felt like the idea of aEW draw drawing 50,000 fans just felt like, well, that's not even remotely possible. But man, in a fantasy world, that'd be incredible. Boy, they exceeded all expectations on this one. Did they not? What a great risk and a great gamble by Tony Kahn, you know, pulling up his dress and

Starting point is 01:35:36 grabbing his balls and saying, let's do it. Man, that's an all-time moment for AEW or any wrestling company, no? Huge moment, huge success. giant payoff, and quite the anomaly. I mean, what an outlier. Yes. When you look at AEW's domestic business, which much like their television ratings,

Starting point is 01:36:03 have been flat or deteriorating pretty consistently, ticket sales for dynamite, for example, are with the exception of a handful of markets, somewhat pathetic and laughable. And I say that, with an air of arrogance and cockiness only because Tony came out recently and talked about how AEW's ticket sales are exceeding that of WWE, or excuse me, WCW. And I think Tony was probably looking at a particular period of time, perhaps in early 94,

Starting point is 01:36:35 before Nitro 95, when I would agree with him. But Tony broadened that to include, you know, the peak of WCW. And I think to compare AEW's dynamite ticket sales, for example, because they really don't have any live events to speak of. But if you compare Dynamite's ticket sales to Nitro's ticket sales is laughable. But going back to the anomaly that was Wimbledon, it's just, I mean, I'd like to understand why. You know, it's not because AEW television is so powerful in Europe or in the UK. It's not.

Starting point is 01:37:14 I think they have an average audience of about 65. to 85,000 viewers. Yeah, more people came to the show than watch the show. Isn't that crazy? Like, how do you explain that? Where, like, I'm the guy that needs to know why. Yeah. I have to understand why that is.

Starting point is 01:37:31 How did that happen? Is it because the wrestling business and the fandom in the UK is so incredibly high that the idea of this new promotion coming to Wimbly, everybody wanted to be a part of that moment and that history because it was the first time i can see that to a point i think it's woodstock eric what do you mean i mean like you know if he grew up my age like we all heard about woodstock 1969 this was the greatest festival and concert and experience i mean people talked about woodstock like it was a not just a cultural but a spiritual experience.

Starting point is 01:38:13 And so when they started dusting off the idea of doing Woodstock 99, a lot of people my age and older than me were thinking, oh, here's our chance to go relive it. I think people were trying to relive, and I know this wasn't part of your fandom, SummerSlam 92. Like whenever I have gone over and done shows in the UK, whether I was with Bruce or I was with J.R.,

Starting point is 01:38:41 SummerSlam 92 always comes up. J.R. wasn't even there for SummerSlam 92. Neither was Bruce, but it is such a beloved show. It's almost like their WrestleMania 3 in that part of the world. So if someone was to promote, hey, we're doing WrestleMania 3 part two. If you grew up as somebody whose dad talked about that or you went, I mean, you would want to relive that. You would want to get that feeling again.

Starting point is 01:39:08 The idea of seeing wrestling in the most famous stadium in the world, I think that's part of it. It's the, I want to be able to say I was there because it was such a big deal the last time this happened. And remember, 1992 to 2023, goodness gracious, that's a, you've been hearing about this and the legend of that show has just built and built and built. And it's a fine show, but it was the spectacle of the crowd. I would go so far as to say that SummerSlam 92 show that fans love so much. much. If it happened in a random arena in Worcester, Massachusetts, it would not be nearly as beloved. The venue, the venue made it. And I think people wanted to be a part of that more so than what's going on in the ring or who's on the docket. Like I remember when Woodstock 99 was first

Starting point is 01:39:56 announced. I was in school. And man, people started talking like, man, we got to figure out a way to go. We got to do. We didn't know who was going or who the bands were. We just knew, oh, man, Woodstock, we got to do that that's an experience we've heard about our whole life i want to be a part of it and i think that's the reason it did so well i really do i don't know another thing to call it than just the woodstock effect how do you and i agree with you to a point i mean i agree with the 100 but i think that only accounts for a small part of it right phenomenon because how do you explain then the fact that they went on sale recently they AW and wimbledon went on sale recently and I think I've sold less. I think I heard. I could be wrong. 40, 50,000 tickets already.

Starting point is 01:40:42 Whatever it is. Massive amount of tickets. Yeah, they have. They've sold tens of thousands. I don't remember the exact amount, but I know that, you know, they've sold just an absolute tonne. That's for sure. No arguing that. They're well on their way to repeating this success of last year. They, they will not repeat the success last year. You don't think. What do you, what would you predict? I mean, I think 50,000 is still a home ruin. I mean, that's, that's, that's, that's. I agree. Yeah. But how do you explain? Because 50,000 is still almost everybody that watches the show on television. That would be like, I don't know, 2.2 million people that watch SmackDown.

Starting point is 01:41:17 That's like 4 million people or 3 million people showing up for a Smackdown live event somewhere. Right. How do you explain that? It's interesting. It's weird. No, I can't argue it. I mean, I hear what you're saying. I think it's, I think it is weird.

Starting point is 01:41:33 and I, I too can't put my finger on it, but, you know, I do think there, it's because it's special. It's a once, you know, I wouldn't say lifetime because they just did it last year, but I do think FOMO's a real thing. I don't know. I just think that, uh, I think last year was the anomaly. I don't think they'll ever get close. And by the way, there's been this silly controversy since about the number of tickets sold. we'll talk about that in a bit because that's a part of our timeline we're going on but about a week

Starting point is 01:42:07 after we heard that all in was going to be a thing and we're going to try to tackle wimbly that's when we started to hear for the first time hey what if c and punk was ready to come back of course we all know what went down at brawl out in september of 2022 in chicago and he immediately had to have surgery and i think a lot of that gets lost in hindsight but i forget it was a bicep or a tricep but he had to have surgery so he was going to be on the shelf for a while anyway but we started to hear whispers that hey maybe it's time for him to come back not only that it led to other questions well how will everyone coexist because everybody has sort of been mum's the word about what happened with the young bucks and kennie omega in the locker room

Starting point is 01:42:51 with ace steel and ace's wife who apparently did not sign an india and the dog uh but still this is when the whispers started to come out that not only could punk be coming back but there could be a second show and we know that's going to result in it being collision on t and t and punk would return but man you want to talk about a tenuous circumstance and situation this feels like it was years ago because so much has changed in a w right but i mean this whole will he or won't he and maybe there's a second show would you make of those rumors at the time and with the benefit of hindsight was collision a good call was it necessary or will it be remembered as their thunder i was just going to say that it was a horrible call it was a stupid decision whoever made it whether it was an executive attorney broadcasting or tony petitioning for it the idea of having that show was a disaster now perhaps if it was an executive decision on the Turner's side and if in the best world scenario punk would have been a team player there would

Starting point is 01:44:07 have been a different kind of program it would have been set apart from dynamite and would have felt like a distinctive unique brand because of punk's presence if that was somehow possible and executed well enough maybe then it could have potentially been a good choice but I don't know how you can look at the situation leading up to the decision for collision and certainly coming out of it. I don't know how you can look at that and go, yeah, that was a winner. I would do that again if I could. I mean, realistically, it's, again, I've said it a zillion times I'm sick and tired of hearing myself say it, but too many limited, very limited resources. And I'm not talking about money. Very limited resources spread across three different shows makes absolutely no sense

Starting point is 01:45:02 for a company with the desperately weak creative infrastructure and business infrastructure. It was just too early. It was too soon. I don't care who's the face of it. There's a stupid decision. I won't say stupid. It was a bad decision. It was a miscalculation. Yeah. It was a a bad bet was a bad gamble and listen here's the thing i know that you know people are really quick to be critical of tony kine and i know you have been on this program but i just want to remind everybody and i know i get eat alive on social media for this but guys you don't know what you don't know a lot of the things that tony's doing here this is the first time he's had an opportunity to make some of these uh decisions and

Starting point is 01:45:54 I'm getting the mistakes what I'm saying is we've got to allow him the opportunity to learn from those mistakes like he's got to stub his toe like the only way you're able to speak with such confidence on here and I think that people sometimes this gets lost in the messaging you learned what to do but more importantly you learned what not to do and I saw I learned a lot in my life as a young man by paying attention to people in my fear of influence either guys I went to school with guys I worked with whatever I saw the mistakes they made in their life and I decided I'm not going to repeat them I'm not going to be moving ladies into my house the the week after I meet them I'm not going to be co-signing for cars with people I barely know I'm not going to be you know having a whole bunch of kids outside of wedlock and now I got baby mama drama all over the county but I saw guys I worked with make those mistakes and I learned from it this is not only Tony Kahn's first time running a wrestling company this is tony con's first time being in a wrestling company so he's

Starting point is 01:47:00 gonna make some of these mistakes and the bonus is he's not playing with somebody else's money it's his money so if he makes a mistake and he learns from it hey he learned a valuable lesson and he moves on i just think that there's some things that would lead you down the primrose path like i could totally get why you would be excited about the collision opportunity it's another show in prime time you're trying to bring up the value of the property you just sold with the pre-sale and the first day on sale 50,000 tickets at the time for all in like the business is super hot around that same time your competitor you know for SummerSlam in Detroit they sold 32,000 tickets the day they went on sale all of those metrics would make you think hey of course

Starting point is 01:47:47 we should do a second show they've got another show and look we're blowing up over here I get that but yeah it was probably in hindsight a bad bet a misstep i have a lot of empathy for tony even though i'm critical and i'm critical because i'm observing and i'm seeing patterns and some of the patterns i see remind me of bad decisions that i've made myself which is like you said it gives me a lot of confidence to be critical um or or or to be observant and recognize things and perhaps the average audience doesn't see because I've been there and I've done it. And I often refer to Tony as someone who's learning on the job, just like I learned on the job. That's right.

Starting point is 01:48:30 I fucked up a lot of shit because I made bad choices and bad decisions. But I learned from them. I think the difference between Tony and I is Tony's not learning from his mistakes. He's not learning, for example, and these are kind of nitpicky, petty things. but in a way, the overhype underdeliver. It's a pattern that we've seen now for years. Now learning, he's still doing it. Everything is the biggest thing in the history of AEW.

Starting point is 01:49:02 Company's been around for 60 months. Overhyping, underdelivering is the exact opposite of walking softly and carrying a big stick. Let people put you over. Tony, quit putting yourself over because the minute you come out and say it's the biggest, it's the best, it's the most important, it's going to change history, it's going to change the industry, it's going to do this, it's going to do that. You're building all these lofty expectations trying to get your audience to tune in to see what it is. But when you deliver to them, it's a popcorn fart. That's what causes lack of goodwill. But he's continuing to do some of those

Starting point is 01:49:45 things. Now, hopefully he is learning from some of his mistakes. And hopefully as time goes on, he'll start being able to repeat the things that work really well and stay away from the things that haven't been working. But that pattern has not been obvious to me. Now, I don't watch the show enough. Perhaps it's getting better, but I see a lot of the same mistakes over and over and over again well if you're tired of making the same mistake over and over and over again can i recommend zbiotics i'm going to tell you what this has been a game changer in my life and i think it will and yours as well especially if you've got a big christmas eve party maybe you've getting people together for bowl games or maybe the NFL playoffs right around the corner

Starting point is 01:50:32 by the time the big game comes and you're hosting or you're going to a party you want to be ready with zbiotics because man there's nothing worse than feeling like absolute crap the next day you know what i'm talking about as we get older this becomes commonplace for all of us well if you're going to be traveling you're on business you got a big party you got a social event but you got to be productive the next day like you got to go to work you got to go to church you got to be on zbiotics is the insurance you've been looking for let me explain how zbiotics works zbiotics pre-alcohol probiotic is the world's first genetically engineered probiotic it was invented by Ph.D. scientists to tackle rough mornings after drinking. Here's how it works.

Starting point is 01:51:19 When you drink, alcohol gets converted into a toxic byproduct in the gut. It's this byproduct, not dehydration that's to blame for your rough next day. Zibiotics produces an enzyme to break this byproduct down. It's designed to work like your liver, but in your gut where you need it most. Drink zbiotics before drinking, drink responsibly, and enjoy the night with confidence. And I got to tell you, this is something that Eric and I have been using for quite a while. whenever we know we're going to be doing some social stuff and then we got to be on the next morning zbiotics is always there for us and it first started back at podcast movement i think we were in dallas we had a successful day of meetings with advertising agencies all day we're celebrating

Starting point is 01:52:00 some great contracts that we negotiated and some new connections we made we were just feeling high about our business and wanted to celebrate with a few cocktails well a few turned into a few more and we were on property so we just had to hit the elevator button and go upstairs so maybe we had a little too much fun but we weren't worried about it because the next morning we knew we had to be on stage bright-eyed and bushy-tailed the zbiotics was there for us eric as he as he likes to say because you know he loves his hip-hop he says you know i keep that thing on me and he reads in his briefcase and he pulled out the zbiotics he had one for me and one for him dude we had the best pitch ever the next morning on stage zibiotics is 100% to

Starting point is 01:52:42 deserves the credit for that. I just had a really big meeting in my personal life not too long ago. I had to do some entertaining the night before. Zbiotics made it happen for me. They'll make it happen for you. Savor the moment. Let Zbiotics do the rest. Go to Zbiotics.com slash 83 weeks to get 15% off your first order when you use 83 weeks at checkout.

Starting point is 01:53:02 I want to mention Zibiotics is backed with a 100% money back guarantee. So if you're unsatisfied for any reason, they'll refund your money. No questions asked. that's how you know it's a great product and something you can really believe in when they say try it and if it doesn't work we'll give you your money back what remember head to zbiotics.com slash 83 weeks use the code 83 weeks at checkout you'll get 15% off and we want to thank you zbiotics for sponsoring today's episode and for our good times and I want to mention what zbiotics is really about to me is allowing you to be at your best you can be at your best when it's time to be

Starting point is 01:53:39 social and be at your best when it's time to tend to more important matters. Zibiotics.com slash 83 weeks and use our code 83 weeks. So Eric, let's talk about what's next for WWE on the heels of the big TKO announcement and on the heels of WrestleMania. We announced there's going to be a new world title come into play at the end of May. And that's interesting because as you'll recall, Roman Raines was running around with not one, but two belts, which were supposed to signify the Raw Belt and the Smackdown belt. And now we create this new belt that looks like the Big Gold and the WCW TV title and

Starting point is 01:54:22 the WWE title got together in a menagerie twa belts. Manaja belt. What did you think of them announcing a new title out of thin air? You did this once for WWE on Monday Night Raw. You reached in a briefcase. You handed a cast copy of the old big gold belt from WCW to Triple H and we had two titles. Well, they do it again this year. What did you think of that decision? I didn't pick, you know, I didn't think about it a lot, but in, in retrospect, to answer the question, clearly they created that belt to create another device, another, more stakes.

Starting point is 01:55:05 There has to be a strategically creative. reason behind it. I don't know what that is or why they decided it was necessary because it has to serve a purpose. And I don't know what that purpose would be unless the new champion and that belt is being defended within a certain universe, meaning only on PLEs or only on non-P-LEs, like a television title used to be used for. I don't know. It's interesting. I'll be far more interested in it once I find out how and why they're using it.

Starting point is 01:55:46 But in and of itself, it's kind of a non-news item for me until we see how they're using it. Otherwise, it's just a distraction. I mean, if there's no use for it, if it doesn't have value, if it's not, if there's not a reason for, if there's no why because I've said this a million times whether it's a beginning of a wrestling angle a supposed to storyline whatever if the viewer doesn't know the answer as to why this is happening why are these two guys feuding why did he just hit him over the head with a chair why is this new belt exist until we find out the why of it all it's just white noise well you got to wonder was it they knew roman was going to be running a half schedule they wanted to continue that roman story

Starting point is 01:56:38 for another year but they wanted some drama on the other show did they know that the raw rights were going to be coming up and we wanted to have a title on that show who knows but what we do know is it's uh it's created another reason for there to be stakes which i know you're a big fan of uh we should also talk about what happened during the summer with some of these summer shows for both AEW and WWV when they announced forbidden door for AEW in Toronto it sold out immediately we knew that AEW was going to have a great first impression and a big run in Canada so to make a big splash with a special pay-per-view like this and sell it out immediately awesome we saw the same thing for money in the bank in London it sold out immediately what do you attribute

Starting point is 01:57:25 this to is it that both were looking more internationally I mean it certainly feels like International is a bigger deal for WWE than maybe ever before, you know, going back to the Castle show the year prior. We know as we're recording this in like six or eight weeks, they're going to be in Perth, Australia for the elimination chamber. I think there's talk that there's going to be another PLE in Germany for the first time ever. Like, WWE really putting their money where their mouth is about being a global property. But AEW experienced the same thing, not too far away. in Toronto, I don't know that they could sell it out immediately right now.

Starting point is 01:58:05 Why was this right time, right place, do you think, for, uh, for both companies with both I, I just think wrestling is at a fever pitch right now in both UK and Canada, as obviously as well as the United States. So the market is hot and it just stands to reason that both companies were able to have great success there, particularly in two markets that historically when the business has been even warm, Toronto, Montreal, UK, we're hot. I mean, the temperature is a lot warmer naturally in Canada and the UK for the wrestling product than it is here in the United States. In my experience, I'm sure there's been periods of times when it cooled off dramatically

Starting point is 01:58:52 because everything is cyclical, right? I get that. But, you know, how long has it been since we've all recognize consciously or subconsciously that, hey, if you're, if WWE or in this case, AEW is going to be in Montreal, it's going to be a hot crowd. I mean, Canada has always been, especially Toronto, Montreal, have always been famous for super, super hot crowds. Yes. Even if they are smaller crowds, they're still super hot. And when you get sellouts, forget about it.

Starting point is 01:59:21 My only experience was no way out with Steve Austin and Montreal. I have never experienced anything like that. anywhere in my professional life. UK has always been a hot market, a dependable market. If you go back into the early 90s, when you look at where WWE was in terms of live ticket sales domestically here in the United States, they were suffering badly, badly. And there's a lot of reasons for that.

Starting point is 01:59:49 But probably oversaturation being won, the steroid trial and a distraction of all that, as well as the bad PR being another, Hulk Hogan, you know, taking a, a pretty good hit, and the public media being another one. There's a lot of reasons for it. But where did they go? Whenever that happened, boom, they went over to the UK and Europe, Germany as well. Because the markets were hot there because it wasn't oversaturated. Wrestling didn't come to some small town or big town, you know, in Europe every other month or every month or every week or every other week, right?

Starting point is 02:00:21 It was a rare occasion that wrestling came to town on a major level other than the local stuff. So when it did, you'd get a big turnout. I don't know what explains Canadians, you know, relationship with professional wrestling. I'm grateful for it. It's awesome, but I can't explain it because wrestling is bet in Canada a lot. WWB's been in Canada a lot. They still get an unbelievable crowd.

Starting point is 02:00:47 But Canada and the UK, it's not surprising that both companies did well. They're given where wrestling is at in the zeitgeist. Oh, I said it. I hate when people use it. that word zeitgeist but wrestling's been hot in the zeitgeist as we know it for the last couple of years so not surprising backlash is the next big p le talking about international this was in porto rico not technically international but man it felt like it that island was obsessed with w e that day one of the best crowds in wrestling history bad bunny of course one of the biggest

Starting point is 02:01:25 hardest in the world, probably Taylor Swift, then Bad Bunny, but what the hell do I know? He set all kinds of records, but man, inside the squared circle, he impressed the hell out of me. He more than held his own here. And I'm excited to see more of these sort of destination PLEs. We know we've got one coming in Australia. I can't wait for them to go back to Puerto Rico. The word is, we're going to get one in Germany and maybe in France and these crowds that

Starting point is 02:01:55 have never seen WWE before at a big show like this. I mean, I'm sure they've all at different points gotten non-televised events, but a show of consequence, man, those crowds, that's the key ingredient to making a good show great to me. Would you agree with that? Here's what I agree with. Taylor Swift is amazing. I am now a Swifty. Oh, God. Well, thanks for tuning in 83 weeks, boys and girls. This is our last episode. It was unexpected. Uh, What the fuck are you talking about? You're a Swifty. I'm a Swifty, dude.

Starting point is 02:02:29 I got up this morning early, and, you know, we've got an Airbnb, and Lori, Ms. B and I and our daughter, Montana, stay in the Airbnb. And we go over to Garrett's house for festivities, Garrett and Mary Jane's. So I got up early this morning, 5, 5.30, whatever it was, Lori and Montana are asleep. I'm trying to be quiet as a mouse, quiet as a mouse. So I'm tiptoeing around, drinking my coffee, doing my thing. I sit down to watch television, and all we have is I have Netflix here. What is it called? Roku, I've got Roku.

Starting point is 02:03:08 So Netflix is there. So I turn on Netflix, and I'm just scanning, and I'm thinking, I've got to watch a documentary because that's what I like. I like documentaries. So I'm going through the documentary, and I see the Taylor Swift Revolution documentary. And I thought, eh, I got to see with this whole Taylor's swift thing is, because I don't get it. I'm like, yeah, 14-year-old girl stuff, great, but

Starting point is 02:03:30 eh. So I watched it. She's amazing. And I'm not talking about the performer, although the performer's obviously amazing. But man, she is a unique force. She is very independent. She is not to be underestimated from a business perspective. She's surrounded herself with really smart people. I just, from a business perspective, I just think she's phenomenal.

Starting point is 02:04:00 And I honestly couldn't name one of her songs except for maybe shake it off. So I'm not talking about music, I'm just talking about the machine she's created. I don't know how anyone does, if you're in business, how you do not admire someone like that that can actually change the GDP for markets

Starting point is 02:04:15 that she plays in. Come on. That's crazy. Anyway, I don't know how we start to talk. talking about Taylor Swift. Well, I know how we started. Bluechew.com. That's how we started. I mean, there's something you won't be able to shake off. You'll need some help shaking it off and you'll probably have some people volunteer to help. Bluechew.com is the real deal man. They can help deliver the same active ingredients as Viagra, Seattle, and Levitra, all intuble

Starting point is 02:04:41 form and a fraction of the cost right to your door. Take them anytime day or night so you can plan ahead or be ready whenever an opportunity arises. And the process is so simple. You'll sign up at bluechew.com, you'll consult with one of their licensed medical providers, and once you're approved, you'll receive your prescription within days. And here's the best part. It's all done online. So no visits to the doctor's office, no awkward conversation, no waiting in line at the pharmacy. Blue juice tablets are made in the USA, prepared and shipped directly to your door, all in a discreet package. Bluechew wants to help you have better sex. So discover your options at bluechew.com, chew it and do it. And we've got a special deal for our listeners. Try Bluechew

Starting point is 02:05:19 free when you use our promo code 83 weeks at checkout. Just pay $5 shipping. That's bluechew.com. The promo code is 83 weeks and you receive your first month free. Visit bluechew.com for more details and important safety information. And we want to thank Bluechew for sponsoring today's podcast and Eric's rewatch of the Taylor Swift documentary. I personally want to send a shout out to Blue Choo. It was two nights ago. Oh, God. Two nights ago.

Starting point is 02:05:48 Awesome. tip of the hat to our friends of blue chew uh can you use refractory in a sentence uh no i don't know why well that's what blue ju can help with ding ding ding round two uh collision is officially announced at the wbd up fronts and this is when you and i got a little crazy and made a little bet there was no see and punk at the wbd prunts that struck everyone is weird and it got everyone talking at this point with the benefit of hindsight this is probably where we needed some third party interjection we needed some outside help to get our arms around this i i still want to believe at this point maybe the relationship could have been salvaged and we could

Starting point is 02:06:43 have pulled the nose up what do you think give me the context again i mean i understand the timing of it but i can't recall exactly what was going on behind the scenes well seeing punk got in a fist fight in the locker room with kenny omega in the young bucks right and he got everyone was suspended everyone was off tea for a while tv for a while punk had surgery and now they're trying to figure out okay now that he's getting the feeling better and he's getting close to being clear how can we all coexist and the decision is made or around that same time they've got an opportunity to get this new TV show so the decision is made hey we'll do kind of what they do on raw and smackdown we'll just do a brand split without calling at that we'll have punk on the

Starting point is 02:07:29 Saturday show and we'll have the young bucks and Kenny Omega but I guess that's the question I have in this timeline is to okay when were the upfronts as it relates to the decision to bring punk back or not? In other words, was the decision to go ahead with collision at the up fronts even though punk wasn't available? Was that made not knowing whether punk was coming back or not? Or did everybody know that punk was coming back? We just weren't going to use them as the face for the initiative. I'm under the impression this is where it started to get sideways. I don't have any inside information. But my belief as we're talking through this is that punk was going to come back and I believe he was even contingent on landing the Saturday collision show.

Starting point is 02:08:14 So I believe that Warner Brothers Discovery, based on the rumor and innuendo, granted AEW the second show with the understanding that punk is coming back and he's going to be on that show. Now, Tony, in hindsight, has to probably figure out how to make this work because I don't know what an AEW contract looks like, but I don't imagine it's a certain amount of money for an endless amount of dates.

Starting point is 02:08:38 It's probably a certain amount of money for a certain number of dates so you probably couldn't ask all the talent to work both shows some talent maybe had that other talent did not it feels like now you've got a pick and if we're going if there's still some unresolved feelings with hangman adam page and kitty omega and the young bucks and see and punk maybe if we can't get everybody together because as i understand it this is around the time where they were trying to get everyone to the table to discuss in person and one side or both sides said, thanks, but no thanks. See, this is where I get confused in this whole thing.

Starting point is 02:09:17 And I know we've talked about it and I probably commented on it. But really digging into this, the decision to announce collision while you've got this situation going on with PONC that is yet to be resolved, it involves a legal dispute, potential lawsuits. I would think that the schedule and the compensation was the least of the concerns at that point in time because you're making a decision and announcement and launching a new program contingent upon the involvement of a talent that is engaged in a very, very unique and business-wise dangerous situation from a litigation perspective.

Starting point is 02:10:04 That's a weird, there's a lot of weird shit going on. at exactly the same. Forget about getting everybody together and having them hug, Kubea, bullshit. Eh, that doesn't matter. There's a legal situation there, a potentially explosive one that is at that point unresolved.

Starting point is 02:10:25 Yet, somebody moved forward with this idea for a show, assuming that the person at the center of the controversy is going to be available for it. That's weird to me, man. if I understand it correctly. Well, what else is weird is the AE or the WWE relationship with Saudi Arabia because we're going to have night of champions in Saudi and then the very next day AEW hosts double or nothing in Las Vegas and they're running an NXT show on

Starting point is 02:11:01 Peacock heads up directly against AEW. now I'm sure a lot of people in the wrestling business would say well that's suspicious timing but on the other hand let's remember they usually run that around a holiday weekend running pay-per-views around a holiday weekend that's decades old that's not really a new thing did you ever think in this in this last year that nxti was trying to intentionally counter program AEW because I know that a lot of people believe that not only did they try to do it here heads up against double or nothing in Las Vegas, but they tried it again when dynamite found themselves on a Tuesday and WWE just absolutely loaded it up. L.A. Knight, Cody Rhodes,

Starting point is 02:11:47 the undertaker. I mean, they were loading it up with Paul Heyman and so many other main roster talent on that show. Did you feel like WWE was intentionally trying to pit NXT against at EW this year? I think in that case for sure. Yes. I think as it relates to NXT PLEs, not really. Yeah. Not really.

Starting point is 02:12:12 And what other night of the week are you going to do a PLE? Are you going to do it on a Sunday night? I don't know. A lot of other things going on in pay-per-view or PLEs. I don't know. Saturday night seems like a good night. A lot of,

Starting point is 02:12:26 not a lot. Some people I've talked. talk to that are currently in the pay-per-view business, think that the Sunday pay-per-view is a thing of the past, and Saturday pay-per-views are where it's at. Yeah, I agree. I agree with that. So if that's, you know, the prevailing kind of logic or thought process, meaning Saturday being more ideal, then it's coincidence. I don't think it's intentional, but I do think the Tuesday night was to prove a point, either to Warner Brothers discover. or to the audience or to Tony con I don't know or maybe it was just fun because I'd do shit

Starting point is 02:13:09 like that I would I would counter program just to make a point rub it in my competitor's face if I had the up maybe I'd do it in a second let's remember too when they did that with nxte on the Tuesday night a heads up against dynamite NXT was going to be looking for a new home for their television show so I know a lot of wrestling fans just get caught up in that Monday night war mentality of we got to beat the other guy. But sometimes you do things just to show everybody, hey, our property is more value than theirs. Give us more money. You know, give us that same opportunity. And we know they wound up getting a great opportunity with CW. Let's talk about June. We're halfway through the

Starting point is 02:13:50 show as we're over the two and a half hour mark now. Uh, Roman Raines passed a thousand, uh, a thousand days as champion in June. Uh, as, as we're talking, you know, he's, within striking distance of passing Hulk Hogan's number of days as WWE champion and when I saw that staff the other day I thought man that just can't be right what an incredible run Roman Raines has had would you have ever imagined anybody could have held the title as long as I mean all Cogan in the WWF were just synonymous no and speaking of Hulk did you see him on TMZ the other day how about that congratulations yeah that's a big deal are you going to

Starting point is 02:14:30 see the Hulkster while you're down there yeah probably uh probably Tuesday or Wednesday yeah um after Christmas so much going on with with Christmas being a granddad and all that that after Christmas and yeah I'm going to go see uh we're going to see Hulk and uh Bill Shaw on down here I'm going to go visit Bill well as awesome as I understand it Hogan was champ for 1,474 days as we're talking right now I think uh that um Roman Raines is trying to play catch up, you know, Bob Backlin was champ for, uh, I mean, this run is just, it's nuts. I don't, I don't really, you know what's so nuts about it is it's got off to so many false and bad starts. I mean, the Roman reigns timeline, if you go back, what,

Starting point is 02:15:21 seven years? I mean, when did Vince really start pushing hard for Roman reigns? I mean, he first, started the push 10 years ago at Royal Rumble and he pushed hard and the audience rejected it yes it's going to I'll tell them what they like damn it you know pushed and pushed and pushed and pushed and push and then his personal challenges you know got in the middle of all that he overcame leukemia I believe it was back pushed harder push more and here we are. His story is amazing. And it hasn't been easy. This has not been easy. This has been a difficult journey. And he survived it, man. He's he survived it all and came out on top. I love the story. And if he ends up eclipson, if there's anybody that deserves it because of

Starting point is 02:16:22 overcoming his personal journeys and stories along that journey, it's damn, it's Roman reigns. And I think it's a testimony to perseverance and hard work and commitment and support. Um, hats off, man. If, if, if you beat that whole Cogan, uh, those are a thousand days. Yeah, uh, he's at 1,10 days right now. Hogan is at 1474. Okay. I'm pushing for 1475 for Roman. That's what I'd love to see. So you don't want Cody to win at WrestleMania. Oh shit. Right?

Starting point is 02:17:03 Right. There is that. There is that. Oh, I'm so conflicted. Well, let's talk about what else happened in June. Collision debuts. It's the return of CM Punk. It's the return of AEW to Chicago at the United Center.

Starting point is 02:17:24 This is where he's going to drop the infamous one bill fill line. they draw 816,000 viewers and we know what happened after that. AEW did draw big money and forbidden door. It's the largest gate for professional wrestling in Canada in like over 20 years. I mean, they had some really incredible record gates. The TV's tape. The TV ratings continue to be what they are stagnant or falling. But I get, but Conrick, I don't mean to interrupt you, brother, because that's rude.

Starting point is 02:17:57 But you said, well, you know, Seampunk comes back. He debuts on collision. They drew 815,000 viewers. And then we all know what happens after that. I think what's interesting, it's an interesting point to note that what happens after that is CM Punk is still on collision. But the ratings take a pretty precipitous drop after that 815,000 premier. your episode, down to, I believe, five or 600,000 with CM Punk. So it wasn't like CM Punk showed up and then left and then the ratings drop.

Starting point is 02:18:38 While CM Punk was still there being featured, and I believe, if the rumor and innuendo is even partially true, had some creative influence over the show itself. And it's still cratered. Nah, the crater's too strong. it's still lost probably 35 or 40% of its audience from from the premiere 30% that's pretty significant no doubt and you know it a lot of people wonder what is it is it the day is it the day of the week is it the look is it the matches is it the talent is it the storyline is it a combination they're still trying to figure out the right formula for

Starting point is 02:19:20 major success over on collision and they haven't found it yet uh roman rains is going to be pinned at money in the bank by j uso it's a tag match but this is significant because it's a big part of the bloodline storyline that j is the guy to do it and it's the first time that roman has been pinned since december of 2019 and that sets up a summer slam main event between the two of those guys uh in detroit really just a remarkable story, this bloodline story, you and I have said many times this past year, it might be the best wrestling story ever. And when I think of the best, I think a miracle made because I think these are the best sheets Megan and I have ever had. We gifted these to a lot of people this holiday season,

Starting point is 02:20:08 and we knew we were giving a great gift because we love ours. I love it because growing up in Alabama, man, I sleep hot. We've always had ceiling fans in our bedrooms here in Alabama. But with these silver infused sheets from Miracle Made, they were inspired by NASA, but that silver infusion, man, it works as thermoregulating. So it's going to keep you at the perfect temperature all night long. So once you fall asleep, you're not going to get all hot and sweaty or too cold. It's just going to keep you at the perfect temperature all night long. Not only that, the silver infusion in these sheets prevents up to 99.7% of bacterial growth, leaving your sheets to stay cleaner and fresher three times longer than other bedsheets.

Starting point is 02:20:50 But as if that wasn't enough, these sheets for Miracle Made are luxuriously comfortable without the high price tag of other luxury brands. And it feels a lot nicer than some of the five-star hotels I've stayed in. They were the perfect gift in my household because if you've got somebody who's hard to buy for, who doesn't love luxurious-feeling bedsheets? Who doesn't want better sleep? And since these came with three free towels, you get two gifts in one right here in time for the holidays. If you've still got somebody in your life and you haven't gotten together, this is a perfect gift, but I'm going to recommend that you don't just get one to give away. Keep one yourself.

Starting point is 02:21:29 Go right now to try miracle.com slash 83 weeks to try it today or gift it to someone special. And we've got a special deal for our listeners. Save over 40%. And if you use our promo code, 83 weeks at checkout, you'll get three free towels and save an extra 20%. Miracle is so confident in their product. It's backed with a 30-day money-back guarantee. So if you aren't 100% satisfied, you'll get a full refund.

Starting point is 02:21:54 Upgrade your sleep with Miracle Made. Go right now to try miracle.com slash 83 weeks. Use the code 83 weeks to claim your free three piece towel set and save over 40% off. Again, that's try miracle.com slash 83 weeks to treat yourself, a friend, or a loved one this holiday season. Can I jump in on that one just a little bit? please i went for about 25 years of my life as maybe not clinically diagnosed but as far as i was concerned in insomnia i'd go to bed at 11 o'clock i'd wake up at one i'd be up for two hours i'd fall back asleep i'd wake up again at 335 be up for another hour i mean all night long

Starting point is 02:22:39 if i got two or three hours of sleep at a time it was a lot and i've learned thanks to signaus and just learning more about nutrition. A lot of that was because of what I ate, carbohydrates, number one. But a lot of it was because the room temperature that I was trying to go to sleep at was too high. I didn't realize how important being at the right temperature, cool and comfortable, how important that was to sleep. A lot of times I just left the room too warm. And I've sensed because I value my sleep now, I'm good for a smile.

Starting point is 02:23:15 solid eight hours, you know, go to bed at 8 o'clock at night because I like to get up in the morning. But having a comfortable temperature when I sleep is so important and miracle sheets will help you do that. Honestly, God, forget about over-the-counter pharmaceuticals or drugs or whatever it is you're really about to try to get better sleep. Just get some decent sheets and quit eating junk food before you're going to bed and sleep like a baby with miracle sheets. Try Miracle.com slash 83 weeks and use our code 83 weeks. So at the end of June, Dave Meltzer would sort of recap the first half of the year with regard to television. He said for the second quarter in 18 to 49, Smackdown is up 24%.

Starting point is 02:24:00 Raw is up 18% in total viewers and 30% when you factor in the loss of cable homes. So think about that. Raw is up 30%. AEW was down 14% in viewers and down 4%. percent when you factor in homes lost by tbs rampage was down 12 percent in the normal time slot i mean this is the tale of 2023 to me wwe's on the way up and for whatever reason a ew losing ground a little bit here yep and in ticket sales everywhere you look all the i don't know what their licenseic and merchandising look like i i've never seen any reporting on

Starting point is 02:24:41 that i know we hear about new announcements and new products and new action figures, but the economics associated with them, the financials associated with them. I've not heard about it. I don't know if you have. Just a week later, after Meltzer reports about the television ratings here,

Starting point is 02:25:00 SmackDown does something that's never done before. They did a really long segment on Smackdown, where they called it the bloodline trial of Roman Raines. It was Madison Square Garden, and it wound up being the number one TV show for American Network TV, just an unbelievable milestone, something WWE had never achieved before, you know, the highs just keep getting higher, and AEW announces they're going to do all out just one week after all in.

Starting point is 02:25:32 So as a reminder, all in happens on a Sunday. All out's going to happen the next weekend, which would mean you really have the Wednesday show and the Saturday show to really build interest and intrigue for your pay-per-view. It almost became a bit of a lame duck pay-per-view, but it feels they might be doing it again in 2024. What do you think about that, an international pay-per-view, and then a week later, an American pay-per-view too much? I think it's great for AEW because they're not driven by storylines anyway.

Starting point is 02:26:08 They're driven by matchups and the action in the ring, not. by the story that supports it. So for their audience, their weekly 800,000 viewers on Turner and the subsequent shows on Turner, they don't care. They're going to buy it. Nobody outside of that audience is going to be interested in it, but that audience will buy it.

Starting point is 02:26:32 And that's been proven. So why not do it? It comes out in August, not long before the TKO merger is official and complete, that Vince McMahon is under investigation, by federal law enforcement agencies and that his house was even searched like that feels like it's something out of a movie or a documentary or a mob movie it doesn't feel like the feds are supposed to be vince searching vince's house but it happened what a crazy year

Starting point is 02:27:02 23 was and as if that wasn't crazy enough over on the wwe side or aew side rather the company's going to sign new contracts with the elite so the young bucks Kenny Omega and Adam Page. They're all getting brand new deals. They're not going anywhere. And SummerSlam, for whatever reason, doesn't sell out.

Starting point is 02:27:24 And there's a lot of concern and it becomes a lot of chatter. After how incredible the bloodline story was in January and again in February for Elimination Chamber and certainly how crazy it was at WrestleMania. Boy, by the summer, when SummerSlam doesn't sell out, people start to wonder,

Starting point is 02:27:43 have we jumped the shark? Have we done too much? And other people would say, I'm sorry, Conrad. What month was SummerSlam? End of July. What city was the event? Detroit. Detroit. I happened to August 5th. I'm sorry. I said end of July. It was a week later. August 5th in Detroit. Jay Uso is in the spot. And maybe some people would say, well, we don't view him at the same level, let's say a Cody Rhodes or Kevin Owens or even a Sammy Zane. but Jay Uso was obviously a huge part one of the biggest parts of this bloodline storyline so if this is your top story and he just got the pin on him it makes sense that that he would be the guy to get this spot but for whatever reason it doesn't sell out but on that same show

Starting point is 02:28:31 summer slam we see the emergence of Logan paul where I think he really leveled himself up we also see Brock Lesner's last appearance in the company at least for now in the end of ronda rousey's wwee run i mean we've had a lot of moving parts here ronda rousey was supposed to be this major crossover star it didn't work i think she was always positioned incorrectly boy they learned from that maybe and i think they've really had a home run with the way they've handled logan but can we stop and talk about logan for a minute please do yeah i just watched his documentary this morning as well i can't remember what the name of the how many fucking documentaries are you watching this weekend two i saw two this morning

Starting point is 02:29:12 I get up early, bro. I get up early. I need to stimulate my mind right off the bat. I don't sit and watch Gaga. I need to be challenged. I need to learn something. I need to be smarter when I'm done watching television than I was before I started, which is why I watched documentaries.

Starting point is 02:29:28 And I watched, first I watched Taylor Swift, Swiftie, and then I watched Logan Paul. What a phenomenal documentary. What an interesting cat. this guy's at another level now I didn't even finish the documentary because I had to set up to do this podcast I'm going to go back and watch it but like he's got breathing coaches and guys that teach him how to meditate and stretch it I mean he's otherworldly I mean this cat is this cat's different level I'm talking about 360 degrees in life he's on another level which kind of half-ass

Starting point is 02:30:11 explains why he's been such a phenomenal performer with so little experience of training. Wait, what's the name of this documentary? Oh, fuck, I can't remember. Is it on Netflix? Are you talking about Jake Paul? Yeah. Oh, am I talking about Jake? What the fuck are you doing?

Starting point is 02:30:27 No, no, no. I'm talking about the wrestling guy. Okay. Where is it? It's on Netflix. I don't know anything about it. Never heard of him. I'll text it to you.

Starting point is 02:30:39 You sure it's not untold Jake Paul? I hope I'm not mixing them up you mixed them up you're talking about Jake Paul bud did am I really yeah there I saw it it's it's not new came out earlier this year but you just did a whole sidebar about the wrong Paul brother I don't like I love you for that I love you for that I can't believe I did that I still get them mixed up damn it Janet uh Somersam's going to kill collision uh that was a show that was averaging 600,000 viewers, it gets to 414,000 head-to-head against SummerSlam. More impressively, though, this is where you started to see that sales force really come out for

Starting point is 02:31:22 WWE. They had $7 million in sponsorships at SummerSlam, just between Slim Jim and Rocket Mortgage. It's unbelievable what they've been able to do. C and Punk and AEW feel like it's continuing to unravel, not too long after a collision gets going. There's lots of people who were being pulled from collision. I guess as the rumor and innuendo goes, the head of talent relations. Christopher Daniels was asked not to attend. You know, I know once upon a time people said in WCW the inmates were running the asylum, but that became the narrative on collision and in this era. And then sadly, before we get to the biggest

Starting point is 02:32:01 event in A.A.W. history all in, we get two back-to-back devastating days with the loss of Terry Funk and Bray Wyatt and then a couple of days later man wrestling history was made in more than one way 81,305 paid attendees at all in but the big story will be not what happened in front of the camera and that's the part that I hate I mean if you're watching with us on YouTube take a look at that crowd like that should be the high watermark and what everybody's talking about and celebrating for decades but instead we're talking about Jack Perry doing some inside baseball references on camera and then I guess a skirmish with C and Punk

Starting point is 02:32:43 and allegedly a skirmish with C and Punk and Tony Kahn and this is the end of C and Punk in W in AEW and it's a shame because punk was so good for AEW at the beginning I mean you can look back at all the merch they were selling and houses were up and pay-per-views and blah blah and I know you were critical about ratings

Starting point is 02:33:06 Everything but ratings. Well, his debuts were always awesome and then it petered out. But is that really up to him? No. And I'm just saying when people know punk is there, people tune in. But then if it's not compelling,

Starting point is 02:33:20 they don't come back. There you go. Yeah. It doesn't matter what stars you have if you're not using them properly, right? If you're not telling great stories. Yes. That's the lesson that Tony Khan thus far has failed to learn.

Starting point is 02:33:36 it's the stories the stories it's the stories it's the stories and having an excuse for a match is not a story that's the issue and i you know i came out and said that you know famously and i i proved to be correct in fact i'm continuing to be proven correct c m punk was the single largest financial failure in wrestling For AEW, and that's proving to be true. And it could become even more true if in fact some of the, like for example, Dave Meltzer is reporting that, oh, the fact that Seampunk is now in WWE has opened the door for discussions.

Starting point is 02:34:22 Those discussions were taking. Warner Brothers Discovery was in my opinion, quote unquote opinion. Warner Brothers Discovery was in the hunt for an acquisition for, for WWE. They were in the process, in my opinion. Their interest in WWE predates any of the punk craziness within AEW. I do believe that with punk in WW makes it more likely that there's going to be a deal, not for sure, but makes it more likely that there will be a deal there. Because obviously, when I say obviously, based on rumored innuendo, Turner was very high on punk. Well, if they were interested in WWE prior to the punk drama on AEW and now punk is in WWE,

Starting point is 02:35:17 no, they were, they love punk, I don't know, that will be the single biggest mistake Tony Kahn has ever made financially. because he brought C.M. Punk in from out of the darkness. Punk had been gone for a long time. I'll go so far as to say, I'm not sure C.M. Punk would be in WW right now had Tony Con not brought him in to AEW and resurrected him from the darkness, so to speak. But he did. And with all the controversy that it created and the drama that it created, I think it made punk a more valuable player to WWE. I think it made WWE look at punk and go, you know,

Starting point is 02:36:05 we really weren't interested before all this craziness, but we could make this work. I know Bruce thinks that way. You absolutely know Bruce thinks that way. He is captain. What if? I mean, that's,

Starting point is 02:36:17 that's who he is. But you know, listen, that's an age old story. You know, a guy like Cody goes out. I mean, let's just call it what it is. Vince McMahon saw Cody as a midcard at best player.

Starting point is 02:36:33 And he put him in an offshoot of his brother's gimmick, which respectfully at that point was also a midcard act. And they made him stardust. And that's what they saw for him, the end. He had to go somewhere else, bet on himself, prove everybody wrong, as I have said, stick it up their ass, and then come back. and now he's got the heroes welcome he's the top merch seller he's the top guy he's the same guy they just didn't see that in him and i think that's what it took as bruce would say a fresh paint

Starting point is 02:37:05 a coat well for better or worse punk went and got that and you're exactly right i have it on good authority i didn't talk to the individuals but wbd's been reaching out to wrestling companies asking for reels and pitches for a while before punk was they or they were asking not only WWE but impact wrestling. And I'm glad you said that, Conradt, because I want to point out that again, once again, Dave Meltzer who tries to convince people,

Starting point is 02:37:35 he's the authority and he's the astute, studious professor of what's going on, a professor where he doesn't know is asked from a bag of fucking rocks. For Milzer to suggest that the only reason WBD is interested in, and WWE is because punks there, just as a reflection. of the true ignorance that's represented by 90% of the things that you'll read and hear out of Dave Meltzer.

Starting point is 02:38:02 Well, we know that, uh, man, it all comes to a head, unfortunately for C and Punk and AEW with, with everything that happened at all in. And it should have been a high watermark. And I know there's a bunch of silly controversy about turnstile numbers and how many people were really there. Let me say this too, in a loud and clear voice. if I was within striking distance of beating WWE's paid attendance record

Starting point is 02:38:29 and I was the promoter if I was Tony Con I'd have made sure I bought a handful of tickets to say I bet I beat it that's marketing dollars it in the end if it's a couple hundred or a couple thousand who gives a shit you're borrowing the money you're loaning the money to yourself you're spending the money and you're going to get it back in a couple of weeks but it's a marketing effort and what no one should take away

Starting point is 02:38:52 I understand plenty of criticism to go around for Tony con and a w but i will never ever stop singing their praises about what a big opportunity that is when you think about you're up against a juggernaut like wwe and they've never sold that many tickets to a russamania and you did it here you beat it like that's unbelievable bravo for them but man that's not what anybody was talking about because a week later of course we knew we're in chicago for all out and before the show tony con comes out and announces that he's officially terminated see and punk it's a two-year saga of punk and a w they had their highest ratings with see and punk on the program their four largest paper reviews in company history were with

Starting point is 02:39:36 see and punk on the program gate attendance was up record merchandise sales but two years man he's in and out and we know where he is now um we should mention w w puts tickets up for sale for WrestleMania and it's reported in just two days they've got 21.6 million dollars worth of tickets sold which is just crazy to think about I mean as we're sitting here now they're going to set another record there's no telling what the sponsorship dollars will be but a two night event I mean that was originally born during the pandemic era you know two nights and man it's just it became a happy accident you know necessities the mother of invention and and goodness gracious two nights these gates are just unbelievable by the way Cody's really going to put

Starting point is 02:40:34 live events back on the map you start to see in the second half of the year everywhere they're going to setting a new record Cody's carrying on an insane schedule with meet and greets and charitable events and all the TV and all the radio and all the press and all the PR the top merch seller going for every live event there is a stack a mile high of things that Cody signs it and I know that we just talked a lot about the importance of seeing punk perhaps for Warner Brothers Discovery and WWE and all that but the idea that you got Cody doing record business here too and both of these guys not too long ago we're in AEW together is just kind of crazy

Starting point is 02:41:20 to think about is it not i i depending on what happens i i think the future is pretty dismal for for a w quite frankly i don't hope that to be true but i if i had to bet that would be my bet and with the amount of abuse that i have taken over the last 25 years for firing stone cold steve austin yeah because of what you know what steve austin went on to become right i can't imagine the amount of abuse tony con's going to take for losing not only see him punk but cody rhodes and j cargo i mean that i mean i still get beat up for for losing chris jericho to w tony con not only tony con recreated the enigma the enigma that is CM Punk, recreated it, shot it full of controversy slash steroid.

Starting point is 02:42:30 I mean, he's like punk is controversy on steroids, not suggesting he's on steroids. That should be obvious. But sorry, had to go there. But recreated him out of the dust, blew him up, and then handed him to WWE. and when I say handed him, I don't mean it went easily. But nonetheless, he's in WWE. So you got punk, you got Cody and Jay Cargo, who's not even made it to TV inside the ring yet.

Starting point is 02:43:02 That's going to be a tough one for him. Tony Khan, trust me when I tell you, I am 68 years old. I'll be 69 in May. Gear up, brother, because you're never going to live it down. It's going to be brutal. No matter how successful Tony becomes. This will come back to haunt him for decades. Did you just say you're returning 69 in May?

Starting point is 02:43:25 Yeah. We're going to do a fun birthday party for that. Oh, don't tell my wife. So listen, once the official closing of the merger to form TCO happens, we've also got the news that Smackdown is going to be moving to the USA network, which means WWE is losing their network partner in Fox.

Starting point is 02:43:45 As we're talking, there's still no official deal announced for Raw, but the longtime home of Monday Night Raw USA will no longer be the case. Now they've got what's perceived to be the A show Fox coming over. I'm sorry, SmackDown. Fox would come out and say with their leadership that they just weren't getting a good return on investment. We've broken that down. We'll see how much that really matters as we've talked about with cord cutting and streaming.

Starting point is 02:44:13 I don't know that network versus cable matters nearly as much as it used to. something that has mattered a lot for AEW is Brian Danielson, so much so that Tony con has actually said publicly, if something were to happen to him, he would want Brian Danielson to run the company. He's even more recently said that Brian is the smartest person he's ever met in any walk of life and the best professional wrestler of all time. So it makes some big waves when we hear that Brian Danielson is saying he's got like a year left as a full-time wrestler and then he would like to uh take it a little easier with the in ring stuff this is a career that we thought was cut short like 10 years ago but the yes movement almost 10

Starting point is 02:44:56 years ago right at 10 years ago got him hotter than ever and i was a big fan of his going back to the ring of honor days i was convinced he's one of the best technical wrestlers i've ever seen but he became a character that resonated in the hearts and minds of wrestling fans 10 years ago with the yes movement and now to see that he's the guy not only putting on five star matches with talent like mjf and helping quote unquote get over that next generation of talent but at the same time a really strong player behind the scenes like he's on the committee that ultimately excuses see and punk and makes that decision the disciplinary committee brian danielson's legacy and wrestling continues to grow with each passing day does it not you're

Starting point is 02:45:43 It'll be interesting to see where Brian goes after his entering career is over. Because being an executive comes with a lot of benefits, but it comes with some downside as well. Having to fire people, in this case, being a part of the decision that fires someone who's one of your peers, not a pleasant day at work. It's tough. It's an adjustment, handing out fines for bad behavior on the Internet, if that's true. I don't know that it is, but if it's true, it's not the kind of thing that you get up in the morning and look forward to when you're a performer.

Starting point is 02:46:29 When your whole life has been, as an athlete, his whole life was going out there and performing in amateur wrestling. Now it's performing in the professional wrestling ring in a different level or different type of performance. And when that's over to go to an office position where you're, amongst other things, potentially, part of your existence is getting up and going to work in finding people for bad behavior or letting people go for bad behavior. That's a tough transition. I'll be interested to see if Brian is the type of person that's willing or able to do it because it's not fun.

Starting point is 02:47:08 Some parts of it are fun, but a lot of parts of it aren't. Well, with the merger taking place, you would probably imagine that means there's going to be a shakeup with WWE. And there was. There's a lot of moving and shaking behind the scenes and some major positions that are being, you know, they can create efficiencies is the word they say, which is corporate speak for it. We're going to lay some folks off. We don't need two of these things. So we're going to keep the one that we think is better and or cheaper. But some of those cuts involve talent. Mustafa Ali, Dolf Zigg. Shelton Benjamin, Elias, Top Dala, Dana Brooke, Matt Riddle, and others, probably the nature of the beast. We're starting to see now some of those talent pop up in other places. Matt Riddle's being announced as being a part of MLW. We've already seen Top Dala. He's made some appearances for GCW. Mustafa Ali is announcing he's got a big tour. But there's a big tease where T&A has been saying they've got a big talent. and I guess they've earmarked a bunch of cash.

Starting point is 02:48:16 Do you expect it to be one of these WWE signes? And where do you think your old pal Dolf Ziegler winds up? I don't know where Dolf, he's not my old pal. I just dig him. I just think he's a great performer. I barely know him. In fact, I don't really know him. I've never sat down and had a conversation with him.

Starting point is 02:48:33 But I just, just something about him that I, I just dig him as a performer and appreciate him for what he's capable of doing. I don't know where he's going to end up. I think he's probably got enough money to last him two or three lifetimes because he's been doing this at a fairly high level, earnings-wise, for a long time. My guess is he's going to do whatever's fun for him

Starting point is 02:48:58 because he doesn't need to do it. He's only doing it because he enjoys doing it. So we'll see on that one. As far as MLW, I mean, Matt Riddle would make the most sense, right? either Matt or Dolph. I don't see Dolph doing it. I don't know Matt either. He seems like kind of a unique individual.

Starting point is 02:49:23 Last time I read he was interested in possibly getting back into MMA, which would be weird, but he's a weird dude. Unique. Weird. Same word. I don't know. I'm excited. I really loved Matt and Randy together.

Starting point is 02:49:41 That was just, that was like a buddy cop movie right that that was like sitcom casting it was you couldn't get two people more different in so many different ways i love that pairing so i was disappointed to see him go you know just disappointed to see him and randy split up period but that was obviously injuries and whatnot but um we'll see i think there's a lot there to work with i don't like you said i've never worked with him. I don't know them. I don't have any feel for them, but I find him to be fun to watch on television. So if it's MLW, I'll be checking it out. Adam Copeland's going to wrestle his last match in WWE. And then he debuts in AEW at

Starting point is 02:50:26 Russell Dream on pay per view. For better or worse, Eric, this is when we started to see people online having some chatter about, hey, they're just pushing and they're just signing, quote, unquote, older WWE talent. and we started to see a lot of people say, hey, this feels less like the original AEW and more like TNA. Because once upon a time, T&A did rely heavily on the star and name and brand value that talent would create in WWE

Starting point is 02:50:57 and then hopefully bring that along with them and their fan base to TNA. Do you think they've gone quote unquote too far? I mean, to me, I understand that criticism. I do. If you have an opportunity to sign an edge, Kind of got to do that, don't you?

Starting point is 02:51:16 If you're AEW, you do. Yes. And I think one of, look, it's just a perspective. When AEW first started, they came out with, it wasn't a branding statement or a mission statement, but it was. It was inferred, right? It wasn't a vision, but it was inferred. we're going to be the alternative. They weren't, they're not the alternative.

Starting point is 02:51:49 And they had different ideas. Oh, we're going to treat it more like, we're going to be the alternative. It's going to be treated more like a sport because Tony's got his background in the NFL and he's a data guy and he's a numbers guy. He's an analytical guy. So we're going to, we're going to apply that sensibility to professional wrestling, which is kind of interesting, actually. It's not a bad thing as the concept.

Starting point is 02:52:10 But whatever, they didn't deliver. And they gradually became, TNA is a good example. The only difference between T&A and AEW right now is that AEW has made the commitment to produce their shows in front of arena's audiences. That's becoming more and more of a challenge as time goes on as we've discussed earlier in the show. But nonetheless, they're not producing their show in a soundstage. Other than that, they're just like TNA. Overhype, under deliver. tons of former WWE talent

Starting point is 02:52:40 that have been cycled out of the system and established predominantly in the TNA product. That's happening in an AEW as well. The only difference, like I say, is that, you know, Tony, to his credit, is continuing to produce a show in front of a live audience, arena audience. Small as it may be sometimes,

Starting point is 02:53:04 four, five, six thousand people look a lot better on TV and feels a lot better on TV than 750 people in a soundstage. But if you just look at what's going on in the ring, tell me the difference. Tell me the difference between AEW and T and A. Inside of the confines of the ring, tell me the difference. I don't think you can't. Well, we know that there's a lot of talent going both directions. another one of those as Edge is going to AEW.

Starting point is 02:53:38 Jade Cargill is going to WWE. AEW and NXT wind up squaring off due to the Major League Baseball playoffs and NXT had quite the impressive showing. 676,000 viewers. AEW did 752. NXT had John Sina on the show, but the next week, that's when NXT loads it up. The Undertaker, Cody.

Starting point is 02:54:04 Sina, Rhea, Paul Heyman, and L.A. Knight, all going up against AEW and Adam Copeland's first match in the company. NXT draws 921,000 fans. A.W. draws 6009,000. And not long after this, WWE announces that NXT is moving to CW. So I understand there's a lot of people out there who were in the wrestling bubble who think oh they just did that to fuck with a w that may have been a nice little bonus but they got a shitload of cash to do the c w deal and there were lots of people who were vying for that c w deal but that's a topic for another day uh it's also made publicly uh known that vince mcman has transferred into a bigger role in tk o and that paul is now in creative control the company. It's going to take me a while to stop calling him Hunter

Starting point is 02:55:05 or Triple H, but Paul Levick is now in the big seat creatively. Once upon a time, I wouldn't have bet on this. It felt like, from my perspective, if this was always the succession plan, why would there have been a need for a Bruce Pritchard to come back to WWE at all? That's what I thought as a fan from the outside looking in and there was the rumor and innuendo that for whatever reason maybe stephanie and hunter didn't get along with bruce but of course we know now they all get along famously fabulously and none of that was ever really an issue it was just make believe out here on the internet um i got to say man i didn't i didn't see when all this if you go back to 2019 i didn't imagine when when when

Starting point is 02:55:58 they were bringing in Bruce and you and Paul Heyman. I just thought he's looking outside. It should be just going straight to Hunter. God bless the broken road or however that song goes. Paul's in the big seat. It's strange, isn't it? You know, because like you, I had a perception of what was going on in WWE

Starting point is 02:56:21 before I went there in 2019. And when I got there in 2019, without giving away things that I shouldn't give away, nothing changed my perception. Now, what was interesting, though, is that while I was there, it was clear to me, even though it was unspoken

Starting point is 02:56:42 and there was none of this merger and none of this stuff was on the horizon, right? Nobody would have ever imagined it. But it was clear to me, at least, that Polovec was being groomed. regardless of Haman, regardless of Bruce, regardless of Bischoff, at that point in time, it was still Paul Vec was going to be the inevitable guy. I think the rest of us were there to provide some counterbalance and maybe some challenging

Starting point is 02:57:15 challenges, meaning challenging the prevalence, because I think Vince likes that. I think Vince likes to be challenged the right way, but he likes to. not necessarily a consensus opinion so that he can choose more and have more choices. I think that's why Bruce was there. I think Bruce is there, and I've never had this discussion with you or Bruce, but honest opinion, Bruce is a stabilizing voice. Vince can be the voice of reason. for someone like Vince McMahon.

Starting point is 02:57:59 Bruce can have a conversation with Vince that Paul Heyman probably can't have, or certainly I couldn't have had. And maybe Paul Levick couldn't have had. There's a reason Bruce is there, but not in my opinion because Vince ever viewed him as the heir apparent. I think that's always been Paul Levick.

Starting point is 02:58:19 I think that there's been, I would, let me, can you tell him? I think there have been periods of time when there may have been a disconnect between Paul Lavec and Vince McMahon. For example, when I got there, Vince, Paul Lavec was nowhere near creative. He never came to a creative meeting. Never.

Starting point is 02:58:44 Never heard his name mentioned. For the short period of time, I was there four or five months. But I was in meetings almost every day with Vince and other people on a creative team. and Paul was never part of that, Polovec. So I don't know what the dynamics are, but I think that Paul Levec has always been being grouped. I just don't think it would have happened

Starting point is 02:59:06 until Vince was long gone had it not been for the merger. I think that kind of forced the issue, but I don't think it, I don't think Paul was ever not on that list at the top. Well, I'll tell you something that's been at the top of my list, you know, they're a long-time sponsor here on the program. I'm talking about Hinson shaving. This is my favorite razor I've ever used. And listen, I'll be honest, we've had other razor sponsors before and they were great. I enjoyed them. I just didn't know

Starting point is 02:59:37 what I was missing. I'll be honest. I wasn't sure what to think when I first heard about Hinson. I thought, okay, it's a razor. How good can it be? Dude, I am so impressed with this. I'm telling you, once you try this, you'll never go back to using one of those, what I would call drugstore razors ever again. The technology is great, but it's the feel that I love, not just the way your face feels and the way the shave feels, but the feel of the actual razor itself. I just have so much respect for this company. This is a family-owned business, just like my business, and they're an aerospace parts manufacturer that has had parts made for the International Space Station and the Mars rover, but now they're bringing that same precision engineering to your doggone shaving experience.

Starting point is 03:00:18 you see razor blades are like diving boards the longer the board the more of the wobble and the more of the wobble the more likely you are to get nix cuts and scrapes you see a bad shave isn't really a bad blade problem it's an extension problem but what hinson has done is fired up their aerospace grade c and c machines and now they're making the thinest razors you've ever seen i know what you're thinking well how thin are they 0.0013 inches that's less than the thickness of a human hair and what that means for you is a more secure and stable blade that gives you a vibration-free shave. Not only that, but the razor also has built-in channels to evacuate hair and cream, and that makes clogging virtually impossible.

Starting point is 03:00:57 As a business owner, what I appreciate most about Henson's shaving is they weren't trying to make the best razor business. You see, if they were doing the best razor business, they try to convince you to sign up for a goofy subscription, and let's say you something that was plastic and had proprietary carry blades that they could switch out like chargers on our phones every couple of years. They would have planned obsolescence, but none of that exists here. You see, a Henson razor works with a standard dual-edged razor blade like your grandfather used to use, or like Rick Flair's very familiar with, so is John Moxley.

Starting point is 03:01:31 But this gives you that old school feel, but the benefits of new school tech, because old Pop Pop never had a razor this then. Once you own a razor, by the way, from Henson, it's only like three. to five dollars to replace the blades i don't mean three to five dollars a shave or three to five dollars a week or three to five dollars a quarter i mean three to five dollars annually we're talking like if you got a quarter and a dime you're all set this month that's how good hinson really is let's say no to subscriptions let's say yes to a razor that will last you a lifetime visit henson shaving.com slash bisch off to pick the razor for you and use the code bisch off and you'll

Starting point is 03:02:11 get two years worth of blades free with your razor just be sure to add them to your cart if you've heard us talk about henson before i want to mention this is a new code you want to be sure you're listening up here you're going to get a hundred free blades when you head to hens hos hong v i n g dot com slash bischoff and use the code bischoff that's henson shaving dot com slash bischoff and be sure to use our code bischoff okay can i jump in on this one please do Okay. So we've been, we've had Henson Shaving as a, as a partner here for a long time, right? And I originally, because we've had our products, like you said,

Starting point is 03:02:50 I got my razor, I got my blades, I tried it, kind of dug it, went on a trip, brought it with me, left my razor in the hotel, got back because I procrastinate. I'm one of those people. I'm going to order a new razor. I'm going to order a new razor. got by me for a period of months. And I was using the typical, as you described, junkie razor that keeps getting junkier by the year. Every year they come up with a new version that's cheaper and worse.

Starting point is 03:03:28 Anyway, so I finally about a month ago said, I've got to order my new Henson. I've just got to do it. I'm tired of this. So I ordered my Henson, already had the blades. absolutely love it. I now shave every day even if I don't need to. Like I would typically in the past, I would shave once a week. That's why sometimes you see me with a scraggly beard. Sometimes you wouldn't. It just depends on what else I was doing that particular week. But oftentimes I'd only shave once a week, maybe twice a week, because I'm in the middle of Wyoming. My dog doesn't

Starting point is 03:03:59 care. Neither does my wife. I'm good. But now with my Hansen razor and in blades, I am so amazed at how close that shave is. I shave every day, even if I don't need to. Isn't that wild? Yes. It's real. And the feel, part of it is the feel. Now, I like to grab my razor up close to the top because I feel like I have more

Starting point is 03:04:27 control that way as opposed to, you know, like mid-handle. So I grab it right underneath the top because then I can kind of get in all the little nucks and crannies like under my nose and stuff like that. It's awesome. I absolutely love the problem. And you get three, did you say how many blades you get? You get 100 blades? A hundred free blades when you use our.

Starting point is 03:04:45 So 100, what are you used to go to henson shaving.com forward slash bischoff. You get 100 free blades so far because I'm testing it. I'm actually testing this. I've gotten four shaves out of the blade that's in my razor right now. Now, my beard is average thickness and coarseness throughout most of my face. But around here, like the goate area, it's super heavy, super coarse. worse and that's where it's usually most difficult for me to get a clean shave i mean i got to work on it normally not with henson i just go straight like this sometimes i use my hand like that

Starting point is 03:05:22 and i get in there right under my lip like that right under my nose i can get it all in there and it's smooth like baby butt smooth miss be loves it check it out it's hinson shaving.com slash bischoff the promo code is bischoff so man what's old is new again sting is going to come out and announce his in ring retirement and that it will take place in march of the following year and uh or he announces first it's revolution now we know it's march and now we know it's greensboro so the same arena where he first challenged rick flair for the world title at the very first clash of the champions and they went to a 45 minute time limit draw heads up in march of 88 against WrestleMania 4 on TBS, that same building with that old dance partner,

Starting point is 03:06:08 Rick Flair, I guess in this corner, who would have guessed when AEW first started one day we would see Sting's last match with Sting in his corner on a Turner station. This is, wow, right, the bizarre. It is when you think about it in the context. This is kind of a great full circle story, though. I'm looking for. forward to it. I am. This is one AEW event that I'm actually looking forward to just because of the nostalgia and the full circle aspect of it. I mean, it's even in Greensboro for crying out loud.

Starting point is 03:06:44 I mean, it's crazy. Unless the sting was wearing the same tights that he wore the first time he wrestled Rick Flair, I don't think he could get any more special. You know, it's funny you say that because I was talking with Chivani and he, he kind of liked the idea of sting trying to do surfers sting one last time. I would love to see that. I don't think it'll happen at that match, but man, it would be cool to see. And it was cool to see where they looked like Survivor Series was over and we had the copyright notice and looks like they're going off the air.

Starting point is 03:07:14 And then they hit CN Punk's theme song in Chicago. He said all kinds of merch records. By the way, I've never seen it reported correctly based on the numbers and the words that I've heard. I've seen people say lots of inaccurate stuff. let me just say he sold more than that it was bigger than you've heard i probably shouldn't say anything more than that but it's unbelievable the run that w vs had and see him punk setting a merch record an hour i mean in an hour on a black friday weekend is just unbelievable and here we are

Starting point is 03:07:51 now we find ourselves at the end of of 2023 and there's talk of w pettentially eliminating house shows from some of the C and D counties as the way it was phrased the raw TV deal is still up for grabs you got to think they're just waiting for the right time and place to announce something really big there AEW looks like

Starting point is 03:08:12 you know they're going to be battling for television rights and figuring out what 2025 looks like for them so we'll discover that over the next year and we'll see what's really going on with Warner Brothers Discovery in this WWE partnership. There's one last thing to discuss that was in the Observer this past week.

Starting point is 03:08:32 We've made it this whole time without a ton of observer talk, but here's the report from Dave Meltzer. I want to get your reaction. The new WWE ownership is not Vince McMahon, so the attempt to get brand exclusivity on stations may not be there. UFC's contract with ESPN was negotiated by the same people

Starting point is 03:08:48 doing the key negotiations for Raw right now. PFL, a rival promotion, was also able to get on ESPN and ESPN plus and pfl just renewed that deal it's believed the cw deal for nxt also didn't call for exclusivity in the wrestling genre whether wbd would want two wrestling franchises is a different matter in theory they could put one on tbs and another on t and t but even on the same channel like espion does for mma or fox does for football but my hunch is very strong that wbd will end up with one wrestling franchise in 2025 yet another aspect going on is that wbd CEO

Starting point is 03:09:25 David Zazlov met with Paramount Global CEO Bob Backish on 1219 to discuss a potential merger between the two companies. This could even more change the flow of any wrestling negotiation and puts major deals on hold. The belief is that if such a deal goes through, Max and Paramount Plus could wind up combining. What do you think of that? The idea that I think Dave Meltzer is a master of reporting the obvious it's there's a whole lot of words for saying absolutely nothing there was a meeting yeah interesting but that was widely known yeah there's a potential merger that's widely known within the industry the fact that all deals are on hold would be like common freaking sense no news there nothing dave said was news it's an observation

Starting point is 03:10:23 it's going to be sure it's going to be it what's odd about that is and again i don't understand enough about paramount's business structure to to speak to too much of this but my visceral response is while this is weird because if there's a merger paramount's probably going to eat warner brothers just based on scope who's bigger but paramount's in bad shape So I don't know. It's such a fascinating time that my limited experience actually in the television industry, even at a high level, I don't have a clue what's going to happen. That's what makes it fun to me.

Starting point is 03:11:12 And I don't think anybody else does either. This is like the Wild Wild West. It's going to be interesting to see, you know, how it all shakes out and what? what's next for wrestling in 2024, you know, just the entire industry as a whole. But I guess we should talk about as we're sort of putting a button on 2023. Do you have some MVP's on either side, whether it's WW or AEW or? And what do you think the biggest story of 2023? When we look back on 2023, 10 years from now, what will be the biggest story?

Starting point is 03:11:50 and who will we point to and say, boy, that was their year where they really leveled it up? I think the biggest story of 2023, and we don't know this, we won't know this for a while yet. But if indeed, WWE ends up on WBD and AEW isn't, CEM Punk will be the story of this year. And the drama behind it in the fact that Tony let him go. Allow the situation to rise to the point where he had no choice but to let him go. That would be a more accurate way of saying it. This situation could have been avoided with leadership and management from the get-go.

Starting point is 03:12:41 And not fanboy, Tony, as it relates to punk and his management of punk in the situation. That's going to be, like I mentioned earlier, how, you know, Stone Cold Steve Austin and Chris Jericho continue to haunt me, losing punk to, and not that punk is any more important than Cody Rhodes, by the way, the difference is WBD's obvious interest in punk. This will literally be if it happens, and I'm not hoping it happens, but if it it happens and WWE ends up on WBD

Starting point is 03:13:24 and AEW ends up looking for a new television home and Tony con handed CM Punk to WWE on a silver platter along with Cody and along with Jade that'll be the story of 20 that'll be the biggest story for the next five or

Starting point is 03:13:40 10 years in terms of inside baseball. Isn't it interesting to think about too and I know you don't think about it this way but it's sort of reminiscent of AEW and ring of honor to me like ring of honor failed to lock down cody roads and the young bucks to a contract and on the new japan side they failed to lock down kennie omega and tony con was able to pull all that talent together after the success of all in and the success of their merchandise sales

Starting point is 03:14:15 in the mainstream and things like hot topic and tony was able to just take really successful talent from somewhere else that's up that had gotten hot somewhere else and just create his own thing a few years later it does feel like cody punk cargo he's losing a few of those same people who he helped get hot again they're going somewhere else it's uh it's interesting it's full circle yep a whole lot of full circle well let's do a few uh real quick do you think we'll see Cody Rhodes dethrone Roman Reigns at WrestleMania or will it be something else? I hope so. I mean,

Starting point is 03:14:54 I can't predict. I don't know. I hope so just because I want it for him. And I think the fans want it for him. Yes. I think the timing is as right as it's ever going to be. So I hope so.

Starting point is 03:15:10 Do you think AEW has a TV deal at the end of next year? One year from today, does AEW have a TV deal somewhere? yes one year from today where do you think we'll know raw is going just guess wbd do you think there'll be another surprise move in talent from wwee to a ewe or a ewe to wwee do you think there's i think there will but i think there will be but not at the level that we've been seeing i i i there's been a lot of back and forth you know a lot of velocity in terms of talent bouncing back and forth, relatively speaking over the last year.

Starting point is 03:15:53 I don't think that there's anybody that's of a significant enough level that'll reach the CM Punk, Cody Rhodes, even Jay Cargo. Jay, just because she has so much potential, she's an unproven commodity at this point. We don't know what she's going to deliver. Right. But if you had to bet, I would bet heavily on her. she just reeks of charisma she has charisma oozing out of pores you could only see with a microscope she's so charismatic and obviously beautiful and in a physical specimen on top of it so providing

Starting point is 03:16:31 she can work reasonably well and she can she can master a narrative she could be the next rock if she wanted to be and she's in the right environment you know now Not overnight, but if she can learn and rise to the level of her potential and learn, much like Rock did, you know, Rock learned how to become a great actor within the confines of WWE. Certainly he had to learn more and get different experiences and so forth, but his foundation was built in WWE. Jake Cargill's can be too over time, not overnight, but over time, so that she can make that transition when that transition makes sense for her. And I think that's the potential that the Jade represents, but she's an unproven commodity at this point. But I don't think there's not that many people that will have that kind of impact that are, you know, vulnerable for a brand change, company change.

Starting point is 03:17:36 Well, it's the end of our marathon episode today. We greatly appreciate all of you tuning in. Three hours and 38 minutes, bro. That's cool. Yeah, we've been going for quite a while today. We appreciate you guys tuning in to hang out with us and be a part of what we're doing. And we hope that you'll join us next week here on the show. You can ask questions about what you heard today or be a part of next week's show on social media.

Starting point is 03:18:00 It's at 83 weeks on Twitter, Instagram, and Facebook. We've got lots of new fun, swag, and merch available for you as well, 83 weeksmerch.com. But if you haven't already, I want to encourage you to hit the like button, hit the subscribe button, and then turn on the notifications bell for 83 weeks on YouTube.com. In 2024, Eric and I are going to be going live on YouTube, and we want you to be a part. You're going to be able to interact with us live on the show. That's 83 weeks on YouTube.com.

Starting point is 03:18:31 But as we're trying to get in the season, as you and I are recording this, it's Christmas Eve, as everyone else is listening to this, it's Christmas Day. Do you have a favorite Christmas song and do you have a favorite Christmas movie that you enjoy this time of year, Eric? I'm going to start a new tradition for my family, and we're going to watch jingle smells tonight. All right.

Starting point is 03:18:56 Unrumbled. Logan Seculo, good friend of ours, great guy. Love his work. He's a big wrestling fan, huge wrestling fan, huge friend of the show. In fact, I'm going to take pictures tonight and post him on social media. of us gathered around the television and watching jingle smells. Now, I know that sounds crazy, but it's a good Christmas family tradition that I want to start.

Starting point is 03:19:28 Jingle smells. It's available on Rumble. Do the right thing. Order it. Sit down with your family and create a new Christmas tradition. Way J is only two years in September, October, November, December, three months old. This is going to be his first jingle smell. and hopefully there'll be jingle smells in his life far after I'm gone because we're creating

Starting point is 03:19:53 this new tradition we should mention too that there is a fun Easter egg that we didn't know about I've actually seen the movie I don't know that you've sat down and watched it yet Eric but there isn't there's an there's an Easter egg in the first several minutes of the show of the movie that well you won't be able to miss so shout out to Logan thanks for showing us some love on the program. Jingle Smales. Yeah, man. I'm glad we remember to promote that.

Starting point is 03:20:19 It's not often that a wrestling fan we know cranks out a Christmas movie. But there it was. Jingle Smales. And I've seen clips. It looks funny. I mean, we're not just promoting it because he's a friend. Logan is a friend. True.

Starting point is 03:20:33 Friend of the show. Absolutely. I know his dad. Friend of his dad. Absolutely. That's not why we're promoting it. This is a fun movie. And you know why else you should watch it?

Starting point is 03:20:41 If you're listening to this show or watching us, on YouTube, James Storm, who's really turning into quite an actor, by the way, is in the movie. I was going to say, he's in there, yeah. There's a handful of our wrestling friends are in there. Yeah. So there's a lot of wrestling personalities in that show. And we need to support them as well. So check it out. Jiggle smells on Rumble. And by all means, go out of your way to support the Iron Claw. I saw it earlier this week. It was fantastic. Highly recommend it. It's not just a wrestling movie take your non wrestling people with you it will win awards it's fantastic uh yes you you could smart mark yourself to death and nitpick a handful of things but goodness gracious

Starting point is 03:21:24 uh to a casual observer a lapsed fan a non fan what an outstanding performance these guys did a great job i think you'll dig it and we hope you're digging what we're doing here you can get all of this and more early and ad free with lots of bonus content over at ad free shows dot com and we'll be back man i hate when people do this this time of year but i guess eric next time the people hear from us it'll be next year to be 2024 so see you next year i hate when people do that but we'll see you next year right here on 83 weeks with eric bischoff did you put christmas on a credit card don't stress out about that extra holiday spending say withconrad.com can help you consolidate all of your high interest rate credit cards into one much lower monthly payment.

Starting point is 03:22:17 Savewithconrad.com has helped families just like yours. Save up to $800 a month. You don't need perfect credit or money out of your pocket. And did I mention no payments until March? So don't make saving money a resolution next year. Make it happen today at save withconrad.com.

83 Weeks with Eric Bischoff - Episode 302: 2023 Pro Wrestling Review

There aren't comments yet for this episode. Click on any sentence in the transcript to leave a comment.