83 Weeks with Eric Bischoff - Episode 305: Eric Strikes Back!

Episode Date: January 15, 2024

On this explosive episode of 83Weeks, Eric responds to remarks made by Dax Harwood and Cash Wheeler about his thoughts and comments on AEW. Eric also discusses his recent interaction with AEW owner Tony Khan on X and Khan's comments about WWE's current booking. The guys change gears and deep dive into the potential of AI in professional wrestling, the direction TNA is moving towards with former WWE talent, and the comparison between WCW and AEW when expanding the product. Eric pulls no punches on this packed edition of 83 Weeks with Eric Bischoff. SIGNOS - Signos removes the guesswork out of weight loss and provides the tools to develop healthier habits. Go to signos.com and get 20% off select plans by using code 83WEEKS. BABBEL - Get 55% off your Babbel subscription at Babbel.com/WEEKS. Rules and restrictions may apply. MAGIC SPOON - Start the New Year off right with a delicious bowl of high-protein cereal at MagicSpoon.com/83WEEKS dot com and use the code 83WEEKS to save $5 off. FANATICS - An easy way to support your favorite podcasts! Shop official WWE gear and apparel by using our special URL: ShopWrestlingMerch.com RIVER BEND RANCH - Start enjoying some of the best quality of meat you'll ever eat over at GETRIVERBEND.com SAVE WITH CONRAD - Stop throwing your money on rent! Get into a house with NO MONEY DOWN and roughly the same monthly payment at SaveWithConrad.com ADVERTISE WITH ERIC - If your business targets 25-54 year old men, there's no better place to advertise than right here with us on 83 Weeks. You've heard us do ads for some of the same companies for years...why? Because it works! And with our super targeted audience, there's very little waste. Go to AdvertiseWithEric.com now and find out more about advertising with 83 Weeks. Get all of your 83 Weeks merchandise at https://boxofgimmicks.com/collections/83-weeks FOLLOW ALL OF OUR SOCIAL MEDIA at https://83weekslinks.com/ On AdFreeShows.com, you get early, ad-free access to more than a dozen of your favorite wrestling podcasts, starting at just $9! And now, you can enjoy the first week...completely FREE! Sign up for a free trial - and get a taste of what Ad Free Shows is all about. Start your free trial today at AdFreeShows.com. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

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Hey, hey, it's Conrad Thompson, and you're listening to 83 weeks with Eric Bischoff. Eric, what's going on, man? How are you? Freezing my ass off. It's, uh, it, it's, I woke up yesterday morning. It was 37 degrees. degrees, about zero. What?

Wait, is that a real number? That's a real number. And that was without the windshield. There was no wind yesterday. So that's not the windshield. That's the actual temperature. That's the air temperature. 37 degrees.

It's not as bad. It was 17 below this morning. But yesterday was like frigid. Well, as you recall from living in Atlanta, when you get snow in the south, it is a, it's a daunting task. I don't really understand the difference, but I guess there's more ice in our snow than there isn't other parts of the country because of the humidity that's in the air. Anyway, that's happening today in Alabama as folks are listening to this.

So I'm going to be stuck here at the house for like three or four days. So if you want to record any bonus content, Eric, as long as I got power, I'm your man. I don't think I'll be able to leave this week. Oh, and you've got no college football. Oh, we got to talk. Dude, end of an era. Right. How's everybody taking it in Alabama?

Man, we closed school the next day. It was a state holiday. rough. But what a story, you know, for our new coach, lose the national championship on Monday, be named Nick Saban's successor on Friday. Just an absolute crazy week that he had. But yeah, a new era in Alabama and Bill Belichick leaving his post for the Patriots. It's, uh, it really is the end of an era in both college and professional football and a bunch of crazy playoff games this last weekend. I'm excited, man. We're, we're knee deep in the playoffs now. Do you have an early favorite on the NFL side? Do you have a prediction as to who's going to be in

the Super Bowl, Eric? No, I don't. I don't follow. I, you know, I enjoy it, especially during playoffs and in this time of year, I really, really dig it. But I don't really follow football closely enough to invest too much. And once the Steelers are out of the picture, and it's just a sentimental favorite, man, there's no reason why I feel the way I feel. I just do. But once the Steelers are kind of out of it, then I, you know, I'm casually interested, but I guess I'd like to see Kansas City win, not even sure why, just because I think Patrick Mahomes is such a great talent, but he's still so young and so much came at him so fast. And I think getting into the Super Bowl and possibly winning the game, I know it'll sound

funny, but I think it'll settle him down for the rest of his career. I just think there's so much external there's a lot of bright shiny objects moving around and his orbit right now. He hasn't had a lot of great consistency the latter half of the year from what I've been able to hear and watch. So I'd like to see him in it just to kind of solidify himself and settle down and focus on the rest of his career. Well, I'd love for my friend John, our pals up at Jimmy's famous seafood, to go all the way

with the Ravens. I think that could be fun. I know half of my family are Cowboys fans. And unfortunately, our video producer, Mr. Dave Silva is too. So we'll see what happens, man. But this is where in football gets really, really fun playoff season. And boy, today's show is going to be really, really fun because we're going to throw out what we normally do. And we're going to talk about a lot of current stuff because there's been so many

headlines this last week. Yes, including what you think we're going to talk about. We are going to talk about that. I guess first off, I should just thank Cassio for stepping in and covering for me last week. My wife had a big birthday and we took the big trip out of town and he was able to cover for me. So I'm glad you guys kept the train on the tracks. But the beat goes on in professional wrestling and there were so many headlines. Let's talk about some of our friends first. Mickey James was named the OVW creative director, head of female talent, and executive

producer. She's obviously going to be working closely with our buddy Al Snow. This is a big deal, a big deal and a big get for OVW. Is it not? It is. You know, Mickey's been around the industry for a long time at very high levels, working in smaller companies like TNA. So she's got a wide breadth of experience. And she brings a lot to the table. Certainly got a lot of passion for the business. But one of the things when I first read that, in fact, I think, I think I commented on it in social media was the opportunities that come with this. Given what OV has OVW has done with wrestlers on Netflix, last I heard at least there was discussion about another season.

That's right. Bring someone like Nikki in from a woman's point of view because I can tell you with 100% uncertainty based 100% on experience and not my intuition or good instinct that when you're selling shows, especially to a platform like Netflix or anywhere, really, anyway, supplies really anywhere. You need that female component. You need a balanced cast of characters. So I think because Mickey's, first of all, she's got so much equity with the wrestling

audience. Everybody knows who she is. That's what I mean by equity. you're not breaking in somebody that nobody's ever heard of before she brings a lot of equity to the table she brings a lot of talent to the table this is not i'm not even addressing anything that micky could contribute in terms of actual training i'm just talking about this potential um another series or two out of netflix she's telegenic she's great on camera she's got great talent she's experienced she's got equity and it opens the door up demographically to make that Netflix project even more successful. So I'm too. I'm here for it. Good on you, Mickey.

Yeah, congrats to OVW and Mickey. Of course, I should mention as well that she's going to be a big part of Starcast down under. Stay tuned for more details. We will have more details on that. But Brett Hart's going to be there. And I don't know how often he makes trips to Australia.

But Becky, Brett, oh my, more to come as well. Speaking of new people going new places, how about our old pal, the former Dolf Ziegler, Nick Nemeth is going to be a part of the T&A roster, so it seems. They ran their first T&A show after the rebranding, going back to the old name when I grew up on, if you will, happened out in Las Vegas, and it was their big pay-per-view. I really enjoyed the show. A.J. Francis was there. I think a lot of him, and he and Joe Hendry just had a fantastic spot there.

Lots of great wrestling, lots of great action. They've had a great roster, but it feels like now they have some really cool momentum. And what a star, the former Dolph Ziegler, now a part of T&A. What did you think, Eric? I was excited about it. Now, I didn't watch it. I don't want to lie. I did watch a little bit of collision last night.

In particular, I wanted to watch Dustin Rhodes. I knew he was going to be on the show, so I made an appointment and made sure I was able to drop in on that. So impressed with Dustin, it's incredible at this stage of his career. Notice I didn't say at his age At this stage of his career And as he pointed out in the promo I think 35 years in the professional wrestling industry

And to see a guy's big as Dustin Move the way he moved in his match last night And pick up a win I thought was pretty damn cool But going back to Nick and and TNA I'm here for it Anybody that's listened to this podcast Over the last five and a half years Absolutely knows I am a big Nick

Is it Nimeth or Nemith? We'll go with it. A big Dolph Ziegler fan, former Dolph Ziegler. I love the way they brought him in. It was a surprise. No buzz, no chatter. Over deliver. Over deliver a big name.

And I think I talked about it either here or on Strictly Business. By the way, AJ Francis, Top Dollar is going to be joining us on Strictly Business this week. So be sure to check that out when it drop. Subscribe here at 83 weeks. Do it now. Like it. Subscribe it. do all that good stuff so you'll know when that strictly business episode drops with

but no I'm excited for it and it seems like TNA is kind of making a commitment they they rebranded themselves or re-branded themselves whatever everybody knows what I mean whether you think that was a good idea or bad idea it doesn't really matter it was a big it was a move yeah it was a step so let's see where that step takes them but to bring in a guy, when we were talking about equity with regard to Mickey, come on now. Former Del Ziegler, how much television time has he had over the last

10 years? A million hours. You know, if you look at him like a credit card, he's got a huge limit on him that's available to TNA. So a lot of good moves there. And you said, rebranding, now bring in and do it artfully.

A big surprise, legitimate, credible surprise. I mean, there's a re-focus and more energy there. I'm going to be tuning in as a result. It's a brand new name. They're turning over a new leaf. They've got brand new titles and they've got a lot of great talent.

You know, Okada was there this weekend. They had a three-way dance on the pay-per-view with Vikingo, Koshita, and Chris Saban. Josh Alexander took on the former MLW, maybe the all-time MLW champ. I don't have that in front of me, but Alex Hammerstone looked like a million bucks in there with Josh Alexander. The grizzled young vets were there. Mike Bailey was there. I mean,

there's so much talent on this roster, whether it's the Trinities or the Alex Shelley's. And now the former Dolph Ziegler's there. This is, if you haven't watched T&A in a while, I'm going to recommend that you go check this one out, support their program by subscribing to the, well,

it used to be called Impact Plus. I don't know. Maybe they're going to rebrand that TNA plus. I don't know. But I know it was a great show. It was well received. And if you were looking for a control, alt, delete, a fresh start, that's hard to do in wrestling. You tried to do that once before with WCW.

It feels like they did it here. And I'm excited for the second coming of T&A, if you will. Yep, as the mind. Let's say it's, T&A is not something that, you know, I've had nothing against them. It's just, you know, there's only so much time in a day and all that good stuff. But with what's been going on lately, I'm going to, as I did last night, watching collision because I want to watch Dustin Rhodes. I am going to start dropping in on T&A and seeing what they got cooking because I'm getting a whiff and I like the smell. I do want to talk about what you saw in Collision, but before we do, I want to mention somebody else who made a little debut over the weekend.

They had a new Japan show out West, and we saw Mustafa Ali make his new Japan pro wrestling debut. We also saw Jack Perry, who we haven't seen since Wembley Stadium, returned to the room. ring, but not for AEW. It was New Japan. He attacked somebody with a mask from the crowd, jumped over the guardrail, takes the mask off, reveals who it is, tears up his AEW contract, and then had an armband that he put on that said scapegoat.

And he no longer looks like Jungle Boy. He looks like Jungle Man with a crazy beard. What do you think of Jack Perry hopping back up into wrestling, but not AEW? New Japan. I think that was probably a really smart idea because of all the controversy and Jack Perry didn't come out on the good end

of that controversy. And partly because, you know, the involvement of CM Punk and obviously CM Punk has got a very strong and vocal fan base. So my guess is any other decision if they would have brought them back in Dynamite no matter how they repackage them would have not been met well.

I guess if they're bringing them back as a heel, perhaps that would have worked in their favor. But I think at this point it was probably a good idea. I'm not so sure leading into the backstage internet drama is the best way to, you know, launch your act one. But it's not the worst thing either. So let's just see what happens.

Well, let's round out everything that happened on Saturday night. You said you had a chance to check out some collision. I was shocked and surprised. to see Dustin Rhodes on TV. I was thrilled to see it. He's been doing it. He announced in a backstage promo of 35 years. My man has found the fountain of youth, got a huge reaction,

fans are with it. It's so cool to see Dustin Rhodes doing his thing on TV in 2024. What did you think? I would, okay, I like Dustin. We've got a long history together. And even if that were not the case, I'm always impressed guys like Dustin who have been in the business, especially at Dustin's level. And still at this stage of his career, be able to go out there and perform at a high level

to be able to enjoy something that's been the largest part of it, not. Yeah, the largest part of his life professionally or otherwise growing up in the business. I just loved it. And Dustin looked awesome. Take all my bias aside that I just admitted and be objective about it. And if Dustin Rhodes, if that was a 30-year-old Dustin Rhodes, I still would have been impressed with that match. That was a great match. Yeah.

It was simple. It was compelling. It was visual. It had a great pace. And that's usually, you know, one of the first tale-tale sides, but you get somebody in the ring that hasn't been in the ring for a long time, just like anything else, right? You can tell that the timing isn't quite there and everything's a little bit slower and all that.

I didn't get that sense at all. I didn't get that sense at all. The pace of the match, the action, physicality, the story, the intensity. I thought it was a great match. Good. good on you, Dustin, and even more so at this stage of your career. They had a very special overruling, I guess you'd call it. I don't know.

It's back to back, right? You had your regular collision show and then he had Battle of the belts. So it was a double dose of AEW. That's where we would see Chris Jericho teaming up with his pal Sammy Guevara. Sammy took one of the craziest bumps I've ever seen in wrestling off the top of the staging there. um hopefully i i know it's a controlled environment and all that and i'm glad i mean i don't need to see evil can evil but uh man there were some crazy bumps this week on a w not just the sammy gavarro one but did you happen to see the derby allen bump from wednesday night

yeah that was ridiculous i mean that's just first i hope derby's okay you know but safest place safest work environment on know let's slow it down a little bit folks that's that I mean it looked cool but when Darby hit that rope and I've done that I got speared by Bill Goldberg once I was not quite in the center of the ring I had cheated back towards the corner just a little bit because Bill was in the opposite corner and I wanted to give them enough room to get enough steam on it so that it looked good right but I went too far back so it was my fault it wasn't Bill's fault But I stepped too far back into the corner and Bill came.

I mean, he didn't lighten it up. It didn't lighten it up. It was to look good on television. But when I came down, I hit the back of my head on the lower turnbuckle. And boom, bright flash of light and stars. And I didn't get knocked out. But I was probably as close as you can be to be knocked out. And it wasn't nearly as bad as what I saw Darby do.

so man I don't know it's scary it was scary I think we all agree we hope that that Darby is okay but it became apparent on that Wednesday episode

of Dynamite that Sting's last match is going to be Sting and Darby Allen against the young bucks and the young bucks returned with a different look a different vibe

they were suited and booted and had some cool new mustaches What did you think of the decision for Sting's last match, seemingly to be Sting and Darby against the Youngbach? I'm going to make a point here that will be relevant later on in this discussion, I'm sure. Okay. But I think Sting and Darby as a tag team are 14 and O. Sting is undefeated. Yeah.

Okay. Well, and given their win and loss record, why aren't they getting a title shot? shot. Okay. Now, remember that, because we're going to come back to that. Um, records matter. Wins and losses matter. Um, what do I think of that pairing? I think the in ring product that we're going to see from an execution perspective is definitely going to be there. right i understand the 40 look i want to be careful here because i don't want to see anything that can be it all in for it to be applied to be i would need to use that word correctly i was corrected by a listener i saw that yeah i think it's cool too i appreciate that kind of thing but um

look they're going to get visually it's going to be a great match it's going to come together there'll be a lot of moving pieces it'll it'll take the pressure off of sing performing with one dance partner for 12, 15, 18, 20 minutes, whatever they're going to do. I get why they're doing it. It's a little bit like using a celebrity. You know, when you bring celebrities in, it's a lot easier to put them in a tag and have a lot of action moving on around them to keep the crowd going and take the pressure off the talent in the ring.

And not that, you know, Steve Borden certainly has forgotten more about how to perform in the ring than most people or his peers know. Right. But still, time is what time is. I get it. The only thing that I'm curious about is what's the story? Right. Other than the fact that we know it'll look good on TV,

why? Where's the why? If they can tell me, I don't, it doesn't even have to make a ton of sense, just a little bit of why. And it keep that why building. so that the match actually means something beyond Sting's last match so that it means more than just being Sting's last match

with a couple guys that can bounce around a ring. That's what I hope we see. So I'm going to take a wait and see on it. Something you should not take a wait and see on is our friends at Signos. We are big believers in this product. I know Eric is. I know my wife is. Let me explain before we actually promote a product on our podcast,

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But I know with Cygnos, little things will lead to a big change. Like, how much does that glass of wine with dinner really change your blood sugar? How much do short walks during the day actually help? And how about your relationship with eating and your energy levels? Signos really closes the gap on all of that, doesn't and Eric? I could, we could do a show just about this based on reading that I have done over the last 10 days. two weeks started out with a book called the carnivore diet by dr sean baker and i heard john baker and joe rogan that's what first got me thinking about the carnivore diet and the

reasons why dr baker who is a orthopedic surgeon by the way has been on the diet for over eight years and holds a series of world records in rowing rowing competitions it got 6, 5, 250, 60, 57 years old, works out like a beast. All he eats is me. But most importantly, I want to learn the why of it, benefits of it, why they're benefits. And that took me into another rabbit hole into carbohydrates and insulin and insulin resistance. And when you start reading and learning from people that really focus and study on the stuff in our objectives and not tied to a pharmaceutical company, that's kind of an important part of this whole. thing. You learn so much because what we think we know about food, how we think certain foods

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I suppose. I woke up on Saturday morning and was disappointed. I consider myself friends with FTR. We have had an opportunity to So do I, by the way. Yeah, I like them. I mean, I talk to Dax on a pretty regular basis, somewhat regular basis, and I've been

fortunate enough to help Dax and Caj and professionally and that was my great honor and took a lot of pride in that and really appreciate their work they're my favorite tag team it's not even a debate like I just love their old school look and feel and I love their power and glory former finisher and who doesn't love the shattering machine it's I like these guys and man they were just all over you on a local interview they were doing some local media with a local station, I suppose, to promote their collision show this past Saturday in Norfolk, Virginia, and there was a local interviewer there by the name of

Jeff Snyder, who I have to admit, I was not familiar with, but he's clearly a big wrestling fan and was thrilled to be talking to FTR. And somehow, some way, my man, Eric Bischoff, came up. And I thought, rather than us, try to quote it and get it wrong, we should just play a clip. So I've got a few clips. We'll do a clip from Dax here, and then we'll let you respond, and then we'll do another clip. But I didn't want to get it out of context. If I've learned anything from working with you, it's that context is king. So rather than me misquote something, let's roll that beautiful bean footage. Come here to this place. But also, you know, I don't think Tony Kahn gets the credit that he deserves because he afforded a lot of

people, a lot of jobs and a lot of income. I mean, even if you look outside of AEW, you got all these old-time miserable podcasters like Eric Bischoff and, you know, some of the others who are who make a living just by going on their podcasts and burying Tony and AEW when they know that AEW is is a place where business is thriving, where AEW is a place that is helping change professional wrestling for the positive. So not only did Tony give us, give us and hundreds of other people living, he's afforded a living to some people who otherwise

would be sitting miserable bankrupt in their house. So we'll take a pause right there. A lot to unpack there, as I like to say. I did find it interesting that he came out and named you specifically and not another podcaster who I know he's pals with, who their entire format is often just breaking down the AEW show segment by segment, whereas at least on 83 weeks, we're trying to draw some correlations between then and now. Your experience in WCW, what worked and what didn't work and applying it to the present product,

maybe that was lost in translation for Dax, but I want to give you a chance to respond because I did not like that comment at all. Well, either my skin has gotten so thick that I just don't react to things the way I used to, or maybe you just get wiser with age and having kind of been there when I was younger. I'm kind of where Dax is right now. So I kind of get it. I mean, where is Vax in his career? He's got to say these things.

He's out there promoting. his company. He's defending his company. His boss made a complete jackass of himself on social media during the week previous to this appearance he made. So I get it because what else is Dax going to do if he doesn't have a gig in AEW? And I don't mean that as a shot because I like him and I like the tag team like you do for the same reasons. But I don't know if going back to WWE is an option. Maybe it is. We've seen crazier things, right? I don't know that the situation where Dax left and how he left it. If he had heat or didn't have heat or I don't know any of that stuff. Maybe there's a chance he could go back, but I think those

odds are probably remote at this point. So what's he got? You know, he's got the gig he's got. And I don't disagree. Tony Kahn is, you know, he's put a lot of money and a lot of balance pockets. I know people personally who are making more money who have been in the business for longer than I have and are making more money than they ever have. Yes. So, so, and you know that. I'm not exaggerating anything. Yes. You don't hear anybody in AEW complaining about their paychecks, but the opposite. And, and sure, that's great for talent. That's great for those individuals and and I'm happy for them just like I'm happy for somebody that wins a lottery I don't want to see anybody not get what they can get out there in

a marketplace right so let's dispel that you know because I agree with that that's it's a wonderful thing for humanity but it doesn't mean it's good for the business but Tony Khan has been doing and and some of the presentations that we've seen out of AEW is not better for the business because it's turning off advertisers. It's turning off his own viewers. The audience is deteriorating. It's not growing.

And you can talk about, yeah, boon, Lips, people, watch, and TV and go back to that trope all you want. Is it a fact sure? Is it as an excuse? Probably not. WWE is growing. The same environment.

Why isn't AEW? It's because of lack of story. It's because of lack of character development. It's because of lack of vision. And it's because a lot of the chaos that's going on behind the scenes. Now, as far as he being old and bitter and relying upon my commentary here on 83 weeks to stay out of bankruptcy, and presumably that's the reason why, you know, Dax is so offended by something that I said or responded to, Tony Kahn, on social media, that upset him so badly.

It didn't upset him a couple years ago. Didn't upset him at this time last year. I've been very vocal and by criticism of AEW and Tony Con for a couple of years now. This is going back for at least two years, probably two and a half. It's not new. But a little over a year ago, Dax is putting it over. He loved it. There it is right now.

Less than a year ago, yeah. Less than a year ago. So, Dax posts on January 15th of the last year ago, less than a year ago, very short notice, but we're going to record FTR with Dax Harwood in about an hour starting now. We're going to do a non-wrestling question of the week. And I responded in support because I'm that way. Yeah.

This podcasting world is a giant pie and there's enough room in it for everybody. Yeah. So I like to support. to people that I know and even people I don't know, trying to break into the business. So I responded very kindly to encourage some of my listeners to sample Dax's show, looking forward to it, continued success. And Dax responded less than a year ago.

Thank you, Eric, big fan of 83 weeks. Weekly download on my phone. I steal a lot of your podcast formulas. But now all of a sudden, when I'm doing the same thing that I was doing, I've been doing for the last two years, he's so offended by it that he, he talks about me going into bankruptcy if it were not for the silliness that's going on in TNA, or excuse me, in AEW and my ability to have fun with it on social media. Let's just get the elephant out of the room. I wrote a book called Grateful. I talked a lot about having to file Chapter 11 bankruptcy. And this isn't a financial industry, of course,

but because that's kind of there, right? So I want to address it. I'm not going to go into detail about the differences between Chapter 7, Chapter 11, Chapter 13, because they're all different. Chapter 11 is a business bankruptcy, primarily. It doesn't allow me to walk away from my debts. I ended up filing a Chapter 11 bankruptcy back in 2017. I've talked on this show at length about the reasons that led up to it.

Basically me transitioning out of the television business. I went from making close to seven figures a year. And I took about an 80% cut and pay over the course of 24 months. And then I had the state of California come knocking on my door and say, I know you thought you paid all your taxes, but we realize we can find a different way to tax you on business that took place out of state simply because you have a mailbox in California. That was kind of a big hit.

None of that really matters. To protect my home, this home is my legacy. I built this home in 1998 because I really, really wanted to provide a place of stability in any situation for my family, to have a beautiful home and a beautiful part of the country from people where people from all over the world come here to visit. It's that beautiful. And I wanted to be able to leave this legacy to my children to enjoy it for the very same reasons. And when it got to the point where that legacy, this property, this home, was at risk,

I made a business decision to reorganize my debt, not walk away from it, not fulfill my obligations to it, simply to reorganize it. And that's what the Chapter 11 is. Now, when I filed that Chapter 11, this is back in 2017, you go through that process. And at the end of it, the court says, okay, you're going to pay back 100% of this debt. And you have, in my case, five years to do it. I did it in three. I have a seven-figure net worth.

I have a very healthy credit score. I'm in really good shape as a result of being able to do some smart things with some help, some really smart people. So that was the context of the bankruptcy that I talked about in the book. So it's not a shot at me. It is a shot. Like I said, it's in the book, right? You weren't hiding it, but, I mean, he made it personal in my, in my view when he said that. And I thought, man, I got to throw the flag on that.

And to be clear, this podcast was hugely successful financially before AEW was even a thing. Yeah, and I'm glad you brought that up. Like our success on numbers better than I do. Our success on 83, people who listen to this show know we have ads. Well, guess why we have ads. and I hear the complaint sometimes where we have so many ads that we started ad-free shows.com because it's successful because people listen because we have a smart audience who's engaged who listen and by the way dax is among them he's admitted that he listens

and stole from the podcast did you listen to dax's podcast I listened to clips of it I didn't sit down and listen to a show he's not doing that podcast anymore um Yeah, we wanted to go into that. Why is that? I was going to call Matt Coon and get his side of the story, but I just wasn't in the move to chat yesterday. Well, there's the version that, I mean, they made a statement.

There you see the report from Fightful where he says there was no pressure from AEW or Tony Kahn to shut down the podcast. Hmm. Okay. And what I heard. All righty. And now what I heard. So look, I'm not Dave Meltzer.

I didn't hear anything directly. I wasn't in the room. I'm not here to create rumors to start shit. I do occasionally respond to rumors and I do respond to shit. And I don't start shit. So I'm not going to start start shit now. But I think it begs the question. What was the format of the show?

Did he talk a lot about other organizations or other people? or is he just talking about wrestling? They did a little bit of everything. You know, it was a fun podcast. I enjoyed it. But they did talk about AEW stuff on the podcast. And on this show, we respond to the news. That show was helping make the news.

See what I mean? We've seen a lot of that lately. We are not that show. We don't want to make the news. That's not what we. we do. Now, does what Eric say here get quoted a lot? Yes, but he's responding to someone else's report, which that just was a real head scratcher. Like, I don't know. And by the way, I want to, I want to circle back to something you said. I do believe that what Dax said is on the

money. Tony, and I know you're going to disagree with this on some level, maybe, but maybe not. Hear it all the way out. Tony Kahn's been a net positive to the wrestling industry. He has created a lot of jobs and a lot of opportunity and driven the way guys are paid up. Guys have an opportunity. WWE having a competitor, whether it's someone that is neck and neck with them or someone who's just hanging around is good for the business. I don't want there to be either you work for WW and you can make a full-time living and wrestling or you don't so you can't.

I am thrilled that they're organizations like Impact and like at EW where their performers can make a full-time living in the wrestling business, and I'm thankful that Tony Con has created that platform. I think it's a net positive. I also agree with you that with some tweaks, few tweaks. A.EW could grow. And I think that's where your approach to our podcast is maybe different from what a lot of others are saying. You want the thing to grow. You want the thing to do to be hugely successful. You have a growth mentality and growth mindset. And I think that sometimes gets lost in translation. You're not saying, I hope AEW goes out of business. Never have those words touched on this show. Yeah. I mean, that, and thank you for saying

that again, I'm just, I get exhausted seeing some of those comments. Oh, he's just a hater. He wants to feel. He's jealous. And the one that really makes me laugh the most is who he's just upset because Tony Gunn wouldn't give him a job. I think the Lord every day that I don't have to go to work for a guy like Tony Con. Well, you know what? Hang on now. We do have a clip because there was another statement in this interview that I want you to hear.

So let's play another clip here from Dax. There's a couple of podcasts out there that Barry AEW that would love a job with Tony. There's one or two that wouldn't. But I know there's quite a few that glowingly talked about AEW initially. And when Tony didn't give him a job, now all of a sudden they're, talking crap about it, that'll make sense to me. So to be clear, you have appeared a few times on AEW programming. And there was a fun Twitter exchange that we may or may not talk about later.

But I'm just curious. I wasn't there. I don't know. Did you call Tony Kahn or anyone in AEW and say, can you get me a gig? Can you get me booked? Brother, what happens if I just show up to the show and have my gear in my bag? Did that happen? No, no, no, no, no, it's never happened.

And look, what I think Dax is referring to, and I talked about this on Strictly Business earlier last week, right? What was the point? Because it was a question. It was an ask Eric anything. And the listener asked the question, when did you, when did things sour between you and Tony? And I pointed out to the listener on Strictly Business that if you go back and if you can find my tweets, I don't delete them.

You can go back and find anything I've posted the last couple of years. Early on, very early on, I was extremely supportive of AEW. I was excited. The first episode that I watched of AEW, I was in the writer's room at WWE headquarters in Stanford, Connecticut with six or eight writers that were on my staff at the time when we were all watching it together and everybody was enthusiastic and excited.

Because everybody knows at one level or another, the more success there is, the more competition there is, the better things just are in any business, including professional wrestling. So the overall vibe in that room was, hey, let's see, man, let's see if he's got something here because the anticipation was there. And after I left WWE, I was very supportive. I think if you go back in and around the time, here's a hint, if you want to look at my post, when Arthur Ash was announced and tickets went on sale the very first. first time. And they sold out as quickly as they did or moved as quickly as they did.

I was right there cheering them on. This could be it. This could be that next coming of WCW. I didn't say it that way, but that's what my thinking was at the time. And that's why I was excited. Because we all know, a good boat float higher. Why not? Game on. And I stayed supportive until, and I can tell you, well, I can't tell you the date. But, and I think it was around November, two years ago, a little over two years ago now, Tony came out and made that completely ignorant in the literal sense of the comments about Ted Turner. Carphrasing, if Ted Turner knew 1% of professional wrestling as I do, maybe WCW would still be around. Completely ignorant.

Tony doesn't have a fucking clue what went on in WCW and why it's not around. The only thing he knows is what Dave Meltzer told him. That's it. He wasn't there. He has no idea. And it was disrespectful. It was ignorant and disrespectful simultaneously. As Tony Kahn's, you know, trying desperately to hang on to his television time on the Turner Network television and Turner Broadcasting System.

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That's For Imprint Certainty. Need your order fast? Four Imprint offers quick turnaround options, too. Visit 4imprint.com and see how easy ordering can be. For Imprint, for certain. Disrespecting the man that made that opportunity even an option. Right. Once someone disrespects publicly, someone who I respect or I have a relationship with, they go on a different list.

It doesn't mean I don't like them. I just don't have any respect for them. They're just like everybody else. I don't care if you're a trust fund baby that's a wrestling fan and has a wrestling company. I no longer have any respect for you and I'm going to react to you just like I would, anybody else. So that was it, Dax. It wasn't because I asked for a job and didn't get one.

It wasn't because I was hoping I would get an job offer and it never came. As I said before that clip, I wake up every day grateful that I don't have to work for someone like Tony Con. Or even if I wanted to work for Tony Con, I'm grateful that I don't have to jump on a plane every week and do it. That's it, more than anything. as much as anything for sure or or put up with what has obviously been the amount of drama that's taken place backstage in in AEW far surpasses any of the fictional drama that's taken place in the ring for the last five years I don't want to be a part of that now Dax I understand you have to because you don't have options but I do I said seven figure

net worth. I live in the most beautiful place in the world. I'm almost no consumer debt like nickels and dimes. I have a beautiful wife. I have great kids. I have a new grandson. Everybody's healthy. Everybody's successful. I can come and go as I please. I can work with who I want on what projects I want and I have absolutely no pressure. And I'm not saying that to brag even though it is. I don't mean it to be, but it's context. But I'm really grateful for, Jacks, is I have the freedom to say whatever I want to say about whoever I want to say it about. And I don't have to worry about it affecting my income or what I want to do. Can you say the same thing, guys? And to be clear, just put a button on that. Um, an old friend of yours

called and got the ball rolling on your AEW appearance as best I can recall. We don't have to say their name. We know who they are. But as I recall, you got a call from a friend who said, hey, man, got an idea. Is that right? And you like that guy, took them up on the opportunity. You made the trip. Oh, you had me to go on AEW? Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yeah. No, and even before that, I got Tony, you, you got Tony on our podcast to help promote something that he was doing. Absolutely. I didn't do that because I was hoping he would give me a job. job no here's the truth if anybody out there listening if you're the head of a network if you're the head of a movie studio and you want me to come and work for you i have to be

able to do it from my home i am not flying anywhere unless i want to i don't like traveling anymore. Like I said, I have freedom. I'm good. There's nothing else I want. So I don't want a job from anybody. I'm self-employed and I get to do what I want to do. I have freedom. I'm not giving that freedom up for anybody. So no, there's no, I wanted his job and he didn't offer it to me. That's kind of a Dave Meltzer, internet wrestling community kind of go-to. But it's not true. I didn't know what me talking about. Oh, so we did the thing with Tony. I forgot where we're going. And yes, I got a call from Chris Jericho. Now, I got a call from the first one was Cody, I think. He's either Cody or Chris. I can't remember. Cody. Cody wants,

Jericho once. Yeah, it was like, hey, we got an idea. Can we run up by you? See if you're interested in. Sure. Sounded good? I didn't even ask how much money I was going to make. Yeah. Or maybe they asked. I don't know. But it wasn't for the money. It was like, hey, first class airfare, get to go to Jacksonville, hang out with. some people that I haven't seen a long time, have some fun on TV, get, you know, bump up a little awareness for a good little FaceTime on the camera to help with 83 weeks. Why not? That's it.

We had a great time too. That's it. They called me. I had time on my schedule. It sounded fun. I like Cody. I like Chris. I like, you know, Keith Mitchell was there.

There were a lot of people there. I hadn't seen a long time. I wanted to go say hi to. Sure. That's all it was. Dax, it wasn't me hoping I was going to get a job. I know what I mean, he knows the truth. He's just doing the best he can to stay.

And Tony's good graces because he doesn't have the freedom. He probably wishes he did. Let's do one last clip from Dax. And then I think we've got a comment from Cash. It's a tag team affair here on 83 weeks. Taking them both on. It's great. Moment on Twitter.

I think you know what I'm talking about. um where i was like if twitter were around in 1998 this is what eric bischoff would have tweeted at bids macbaird or vice versa um well i mean i mean did you see the response that i gave to him oh i did i mean that was i mean that that's all that needs to be said right i mean he went on national television and and asked for a professional wrestling match with a vitzman at his paper view i mean you know that it's him it's it's the whole calling the cuddle black That's, that's, you know, that's all he's doing. He's doing it for clicks.

He's doing it for views. But also, man, this is, you know, I've said it about a hundred times in this interview. This is how I give my family a living. This is how I put food in their mouth. And if you're going to try to bury the place that I work and make it look less than that, that you make it personal with me. I like how, I like how he uses the term making it look less than. He does steal my shit. That's funny.

I don't even notice that. There's a different than less than. There you go, Dad. So you're learning, keep learning, and while you're learning, learn to understand the difference in the two situations, I went head to head with Vince. Now, in all honesty, it wasn't my choice. That was Ted Turner's choice. It was just my job to do it well.

Right. So we were head to head same time, same bad channel. Well, not same bad channel, but same time, head to head. AEW and going back to the comments I made over two years ago when I said shut up and Russell Tony that was my way of saying focus on your own shit and quit burying WWE or comparing yourself to WWE

because you're setting yourself up for an expectation you're never going to be able to deliver on and eventually you're going to lose the goodwill of the audience that you currently have short way of saying it shut up and Russell that was the point that but that behavior continued. I kind of lost myself there for a second.

Well, he was talking about the whole response with Tony Kahn. Oh, okay. We'll table that for a minute. We'll get there in a minute on that one because I know that's a whole separate conversation. Let's put a button on the FTR discussion because I guess it was time for a hot tag and Cash came in hot. Let's take a lesson to Cash putting a button on this interview with Jeff. Snyder to promote collision in Norfolk. I think he's really mad that Tony wouldn't give him a job the few times he was there to collect a paycheck.

Yeah. Yeah. You know, I've heard that before. Bankruptcy number four. There's there's a car. That just feels mean-spirited. It feels like a personal shot. And there's also some consistency between it.

I wonder if they were coached. I don't know if that was a coached kind of. No, I don't want to believe that. No. I don't want to believe it either. I do find it interesting. It doesn't answer the question. Do you find it interesting.

You're the only person that is mentioned there. And I also find it interesting that he used the phrase, he showed up for a paycheck. Doesn't everybody go to AEW for a paycheck? Or maybe FTR is paying to be on the show. I don't know. I don't think that's the case. Maybe their deals different.

But yeah. And by the way, it wasn't that big of a fee. So it's not, no, it wasn't that big of a motivator for me. Like I said, it was for the fun. And I,

you know, and I want cash it up. I didn't have a gun to my head. Oh, sorry. Oh, come on, no.

No, there was no gun to my head, cash, pun intended. But again, Cash is in kind of the same. Maybe he's in a worse situation than Dax because literally he's facing felony weapons charges and assault. Oh, gosh. Come on.

Well, is he or isn't he? He's doing facts here. There's no innuendo. There's no rumor going on here. These are just facts. Who wins with this conversation? I mean, I know he's referencing something. Who wins with any of this conversation?

But it's about the context. Again, going back to the same thing I pointed out with, with Dax, they're both locked into a situation that their lives is going, their lives are going to take a pretty stiff turn for the worst in all likelihood if their relationship with AEW goes away for any reason. So of course they're going to do or come to the defense or promote or spin or whatever it is they can do for their company. And you know what? I don't even hold it against them. because loyalty is a really important thing. It's one of the characteristics, human characteristics, that I put probably at the top of the list

when I decide if I want to associate with somebody or become friends with somebody or in the case of my wife, marry somebody. Loyalty is very important to me. The fact that these two guys are at least loyal to the person that they get a check from doesn't make them bad people. They're not really good at it.

in terms of this type of thing, because they're kind of exposing themselves. You know, you want to kind of, in a situation like this, you want your company to come out better. You want to come out better. And I don't think either one of them did,

to be honest. But, you know, there, I'm not mad at them. I'm not really taking them personally. It's unfortunate some of the things they said because,

again, in the big scheme of things, nothing they said harm me personally or will. I'm pretty much, an open book, folks. Anybody that knows me knows it. Anybody that's read my last book knows that. Anybody that's listen to me on these podcasts, know that.

So, come on, guys. Get a little professional. Well, I hate that it happened, as I said at the top of the segment. I'm such a big fan of their work. I like them personally. And I do think they could go back to WWE or Impact or New Japan.

Like, those guys are going to have contracts in wrestling as long as they want contracts and wrestling. And when they're doing, I'm sure Dax and Kuhn are going to be podcasting again, and they'll be getting headlines everywhere, just like they were the first time. So I hope that this was all just sort of lost in translation. And maybe we just weren't speaking the same love language. But the best way to learn a language is immersion, living where the language is spoken and using it every day.

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slash weeks. Get 55% off at babble.com slash weeks. That's B-A-B-B-B-E-L-com slash weeks. Rules and restrictions may apply. Eric, if you had this back in 1995, Soniaono would still be teaching karate. You know what? I'm using battle to learn Spanish.

Me too. Are you? Yeah, we're going to have a whole conversation in a few weeks here on this program. We're going to do a show in Spanish. We're going to get there. I love it. You know, what I like about it is so intuitive. Right?

like the way you really learn a language. Right. Instead of like my grandson, Way J, Raylan James, he's now starting, he's got words down, he knows words, and he's starting to learn

how to put those words together to get a response, correct response. And it's fascinating to watch. That happens naturally and intuitively from kid. But since I've been looking at Babel and working with Babel,

I just started a couple days ago. By the way, I've tried this once before, but now I'm really committed to it. I've been working on my discipline, and it's working out really well. But I want to learn Spanish to be able to be fluent enough where if I'm in a restaurant, especially if I go to a Mexican restaurant

or if I'm traveling to Mexico or outside of the country, I want to be able to at least get around and order and feel comfortable having basic conversations. Yeah. And that was a great way to do it. It's so intuitive. It doesn't feel like,

you're studying from a book. It's interactive and you hear voices and you hear the dialogue. Love that. Like having your own private coach. Get 55% off your subscription right now at babble.com. That's B-A-B-B-B-E-L.com slash weeks. So man, it feels like we're never going to stop talking about A-E-W because somehow, some way, you wound up getting in a little bit of a Twitter spat with Tony Kahn last week. Let me add some context. Context is king here on the program. For whatever reason,

WWE's partners decided to start trolling TonyCon and AEW. A few weeks ago, the Jaguars put playoff tickets on sale, and then against the Titans,

they fell short and didn't actually wind up making the playoffs. So, WWE on USA, their Twitter account, quote, tweeted that announcement that the Jags had tickets on sale with that now iconic Kurt Angle meme where he's just staring like that's not going to happen because of course the Jags are there and then there was another match that was announced

with the program Monday Night Raw, Jinder Mahal versus Seth Rollins, your pal Raj Geh Gehry commented on social media that they had history because they had a great match at so-and-so pay-per-view and such and such year, whatever those details were. And the response, again, from a WWE partner was, what was the cage match rating? And this becomes a thing because it's come out that Tony Kahn is really curious what fans think of the individual matches that happen on his program. And he keeps up with those ratings.

Now, some people in the industry have poke fun at that. Others say, hey, man, he's getting listener feedback. He's getting viewer feedback. anytime you can solicit feedback, that's a good thing. But there were others who met it with a chuckle. He took offense and when Gender Mahal was given a title shot after not getting a lot of TV time respectfully in the last year or so, even though he is a former WWE champion

and was just on TV with the Rock a couple of weeks ago, Tony thought perhaps there was a double standard in the internet wrestling community because Hook, Taz's son, who has lost one, to Jungle Boy Jack Perry and then regained his FDW championship. He's only lost once in AEW and they announced he was going to get a title shot against Samoa Joe. So Tony Kahn took to Twitter to respond to that. And you

quote tweeted it with the clown emoji. Not very nice of you, Eric. And then he responded with a GIF, I suppose. And I think he called you well it says get out of my sight

you miserable has been and you quote tweet this lady from Dallas or Knott's Landing or whatever the hell I'm looking at here and said you got a thing

for that style of hair don't you Tony so you were having fun with this but it did feel like Tony at least started seriously and in the end

it felt like it was a little more lighthearted that's the way I viewed it from my home in Huntswell Alabama, what was really going on with that Twitter interaction with you and Tony last week? I was having a blast. I mean, literally it started. I have an infrared sauna in my studio and I do about 90 minutes a day. Usually I do it in the mornings, but I was doing it

in the evening for whatever reason. I'm looking at this stuff. That's kind of when it started is what I was in the sauna. And I was, I was laughing my ass off in sauna. It was. It was, It was just, it was funny. And I had a blast doing it. I think I told you the next day, man. And I guess I shouldn't at this stage of my life, age. But fucking with people on social media is a good pleasure of mine. What's wrong with you?

I just, hey, if you got nothing else to do, I'm in a freaking sauna. Yeah. You know, I'm in a sauna. I don't have a TV in my sauna, you know? I don't like to read in a sauna because my eyes are sweating and it's dripping down on my book or my phone or whatever. and heat ruins a phone anyway. So I'm sitting there by myself for 90 minutes,

and I snuck out, I grabbed my phone, I look at it because I wanted to put some music on, and I made the mistake of going to social media and seeing this shit. And for the next 90 minutes, I'm laughing my ass off, tweeting back and forth, having a blast. It was fun for me.

It's just fun. And by the way, so everybody knows, I was going to open this show up. I was going to get one of those big Russian Cossack hats and a big pair of goofy-ass sunglasses, and I was going to open the show like Tony Conn and a scrum. Oh, come on.

Wouldn't that be good? No. It would have been so good. So good. But, you know, there were no Russian Cossack hats available anywhere in Cody, Cody, Wyoming. And because of the weather,

I didn't feel like going to Billings and looking for them. But that's what I mean. I'm having fun with this shit, bro. That's all. I feel like, I feel like when I was a kid, my sister used to collect you. She used to have these little toys.

I had these, they were about this tall and they had the hair that spiked up and it came with a little brush. And I guess the story was these little mythical creatures lived under a bridge. They were the trolls and she would just comb their hair and that's you now. You are a professional Twitter troll.

If you want, you know, don't start none, won't be none. Here comes Eric Bischoff. He's going to stir it up and have some fun and entertain himself. Yeah. And if you're going to jump in, just know we're going to go for a ride. And and know that I'm doing it. from a perspective of love and humor.

Well, if that was lost on everybody, because it did pop off for a little bit. And you had a fabulous response that I wish you wouldn't have deleted, but after he called you a has been, I think you responded with a screen grab of you coming out on an EW dynamite and the little Chiron at the bottom after it says your name and your social handle. It said groundbreaking something or other. So you responded and put a little asterisk and put

groundbreaking washed up has been or whatever it was. Yeah, I didn't see that. By the way, for the record, you have to be a real fucking degenerate to get me to block you. Now, I mute the hell out of a lot of people just because they clog up my line or this stuff they say is so stupid. I don't, it doesn't make me laugh. Right.

And I'll, you know, if it's, if it's so mean-spirited or so stupid or racist or anything else like that, violent, I'll block you because I don't want to see. that shit. But, you know, if it's just people criticizing me and, you know, doing what people

normally do, I, like I said, I have fun with that. I don't block anybody and like I said, unless you fall into that bucket. So I don't know where that went, but I wish I would have it because I think that's funny. It was, yeah. What I enjoyed most of all is the way you put

a bow on the whole interaction. I don't know if it was because you were going to bed that night or what, but you tweeted out the sauna. Okay, well, you tweeted out something, At Tony Kine, a thought on tonight's war's bittersweet end, in words that echo from a bard long friend, when swords are sheathed and battles cease to be, a bittersweet taste lingers for all to see. Good night at 83 weeks fans. What in the world?

What kind of Charles Dickens got into you? What is this? I wanted to be sure, because it was clear, you know, Tony and I were going back and forth. it was kind of like a Wimbledon thing, right? Right. Tennisman, Bing, Bing, Bing, Bing. And all of a sudden, he got real quiet. Like, he's not responding anymore.

Like, he ran out of shit to say. And I could tell he was cashed in his chips, so to speak. So it was clear it was coming to an end. But I wanted to end it on a fun high note. And I've, you know, I've read a lot of Shakespeare. I've studied poetry in college. I dabble, you know, in poetry quite often. So I thought, I want to come up with a way.

that'll have that kind of Shakespearean feel. But end this on a note that will leave followers anticipating the next Twitter battle. Oh, my gosh. No, that's what my intent was. Like, this was my closing act. This is the end of Nitro. This is the part of the Twitter show that gets people to tune in to our next Twitter battle. I format everything, Conrad.

my life did we have to have another Twitter battle you have to have another Twitter battle but I wanted to end it on a high note and I knew that by the way I don't read poetry I've never read a lick of Shakespeare I've got no interest in even trying to develop that skill set

so what did I do Conrad what would any thinking person do that had AI at their fingertips I said hey grok or whatever it's called on X how would Shakespeare comment on the bittersweet end of a war? And that's what I got.

So I copied and pasted it. AI can be your friend, Tony. I want you to think, Tony, because I know you're listening to this, I want you to think hard about incorporating the gift that is AI. Because I believe, and I've said this before, Discussed it before, but now I'm convinced that from a creative perspective, just punch you in a little bit of stuff for A for Grock, GROC a book for you.

Chat GBT, BT, book for you. You know, it's funny you say that. You don't have to take all this abuse for putting up all this random shit and having dream matches that make no sense and people getting title shots for whatever reason and then complaining because somebody didn't use your scoring system that, by the way, you very rarely if ever use if you have AI do your work for you you've got a fresh set of I don't know eyes doing it thought Tony I thought I love that you referenced AI because you actually mentioned that on last week's 83 weeks that you felt like AI could actually

help with storylines that that was a possibility in the future and our friends over at the ringer wrestling show at ringer wrestling over on x actually did that experiment where they took your advice and your suggestion that perhaps AI could help with pro wrestling creative and they said how would we put a storyline together between randy orton and cody Rhodes and it was pretty freaking good like I saw the clip on social I made sure I forwarded it to you I didn't know if you were a normal if the ringer was normally in your digestive schedule each week but I thought man this is pretty good I'm really impressed with what they did and I have to admit while I was maybe a little skeptical hearing that last week from you that AI storyline

between Randy Orton and Cody Rhodes, sign me up. I'm for it. And honestly, kidding aside and humor aside, I encourage people to go back and look at it. Now, I reposted it because it was like you, I went, wow, that's actually good. Yeah. But in full context, that experiment that those guys did kicked out a three-act structure because in fact, they even made a point of noting that when they kicked in their parameters, build a storyline between Cody and Randy, that's it.

And they kicked out Act 1, Act 2, Act 3, right? So they got a three-act structure. They got a story built on the generational nature of both or status of both of the talents in a story and Dusty was involved. I mean, look, are you going to take it right from your computer and go build a program with it? No, but it's a great way. to start a it's a great thought starter it gives you something tangible that's structured properly from the very beginning so that you can go in and tweak along the way and and and make it yours and i think tony should do that man he should think of that you can be cranking out storylines for

ring of honor and dark and rampage and collision and dynamite not have to take any or at least as much abuse because at least you have a three-act structure well i for one am uh interested in and and seeing how a i can affect pro wrestling in the future because i just didn't have any confidence in a storyline until i heard that clip so go out of your way check out our friends with the ringer they did a whole thing about this we'll retweet it from our official show account as well so you can see it but uh they do a good job over there and goodness gracious i'm in i wanted to ask you about that because you know we are just uh as you and I are recording, we're less than two weeks away from the World Rumble, and we've got a special

little top guy event that we're doing down in Tampa. It's all a part of what we're doing on ad-free shows.com. It's not the official Top Guy weekend. It's just a little bonus, a little get-together for us. We're going to have a few of those this year, or, you know, we're going to get together a few times or try. We're going to endeavor to persevere with that, if you will. But there's a lot of bust, man. What is WWE going to do with the Rock? What is WWE going to do with CM Punk? And where does that leave Cody? And I've seen all the different versions of, hey, what if this?

What if that? I saw Raj Gehry said recently, he feels like they're trying to have Roman reigns break Hulk Hogan's title reign and they still want to have Cody finish the story. So what if Roman retains at WrestleMania against against the Rock or whomever. And then he drops the title to Cody and Madison Square Garden.

The same building where Dusty thought he won the world title back in the 70s. Oh, that gives me goosebumps. That's a pretty good story. I mean, I could get behind that. However, I just don't think they need the Rock at WrestleMania.

I know that sounds crazy and I know you took some criticism for saying that a few weeks ago, but it seems like Tony Kant, I'm sorry, Nick Con is borrowing pages from the NFL. And you've said that loud and proud before that the NFL, they've kind of reached a ceiling here in America.

So the only way to grow that property is to grow it internationally, which is why we started to see games happen in Germany and we've seen games happen in London and in Mexico. And now this year specifically, we're getting premium live events, quote unquote, pay-per-views in Perth, Australia, in Toronto, Canada, in Germany, in France. So we've got four international pay-per-views just this year, and the Rock is a global superstar.

So if what we've read online is true that the WWE is getting a fee just for bringing the show to this country, and they're probably getting a great tax deal and a great deal on the venue, et cetera, et cetera, et cetera, maybe their travel covered, all that sort thing, it makes sense that you would try to leverage a relationship with the rock to grow in those markets and help them sort of offset whatever the rock's fee might be. Because I would contend, WrestleMania is going to be a huge success regardless, with or without the rock. It's going to be what it is.

It's not like you can sell additional pay-per-views. It's on peacock. It's not like if you grow peacock, they give you a bunch more money. I mean, you have a contract with peacock. it is what it is. And once all the tickets are sold and once all the sponsorships are they kind of are what they are, it would make sense to me to, hey, let's try to

continue to grow abroad. I'm saying all that to say, in a loud and clear voice. I think Cody's still the guy and I think Cody wins the belt at WrestleMania. Let's say you. Absolutely agree. And again, talked about this a little bit on strictly business. Talked about it a lot of strictly business.

It seems to me that the best use of that asset being rock, because he's a massive asset, would be better used to continue to expand or leverage him to expand, which are the international business model. Do it in Perth. Whatever the book,

you know, I'm not following the creative close enough, but have Roman face rock in Perth. I haven't beat him there and then go to WrestleMania or haven't beat him the night before. Like you said, yes, great, but I think it would be, I don't want to say smarter because that would imply that I'm

outsmarting Nick Con and I'm not that stupid. But it seems to be based on the information that I have, the impression I have that using Rock and Perth, if indeed the international expansion is focused, would make more sense. And it keeps creatively everything intact. I got to think that there's going to be, hear me out. I'm not saying that I'm going to, first of all, I guess we should say, although you and I are friends with Bruce, we don't talk about any of us with Bruce. That's just not, that's because we're friends with Bruce.

Yes. We don't talk about that. Correct. So I'm saying all that to say. If you recall, Cody had an incredible match last year at WrestleMania with Roman Rains. I would argue it's a top five or at worst, top 10 WrestleMania main event as far as the in ring work. It's been a long time since.

the rock had to work that long of a match and that sort of thing, blah, blah, blah. I'm not saying he can't do it. He's a tremendous athlete, performer, blah, blah, blah. But I am just saying it feels to me like the highest and best use of the rock might be to continue that same story. Because if you recall at the end of last year's phenomenal match, solo, Sokoa, did some interference. There were some chady chanagan's that cost Cody his opportunity.

And if the Rock were to wrestle Roman at one of these other PLEs, maybe it's in the elimination chamber. And Solo Sacoa interfered there. And then maybe the whole bloodline gets the advantage on the rock. And then Cody makes the save or something like that. It would stand to reason that if Cody punches his ticket because he wins the elimination chamber, whatever they're trying to do there or whatever. And he's got his title opportunity at WrestleMania again. to finish the story, if some interference were to start to happen just like last year with

solo and the rock makes the save and Cody pins Roman, but maybe it was because it was right after a rock bottom, now we've got all kinds of rematches for these other international events. Now we can have a Roman rock match without the title on the line. That'll be huge business. We get rock at another international pay-per-view. And we could also have a phenomenal match with with uh roman and cody where roman could say hey you didn't beat me the rock beat me and i could see just it sets up tons of rematches i just believe cody's the guy and i think the merch tells the story for that i think he's on all the live events that tells that like live event sales have never been higher he sold more merch all the metrics say Cody is the guy

which by the way Cody is the guy is a new shirt available now uh over at uh Box of Gimmicks.com or 83 weeksmerch.com. You can get, I'm an Eric Bischoff guy. Cody is the guy. I'm back and so much more. 83 weeks merch.com. I say Cody's the guy and I'm excited to see what they do at the Royal Rumble. But I don't think it's going to be something that involves C.M. Punk and Roman.

I think they're going to see him punk, Seth Rollins. I think if anybody wins the Rumble, it might be punk. and he calls out Seth Rollins and they made an event night one of WrestleMania. That would be my prediction. What's your prediction?

I'm going with you. You've thought through this way more than I have. You know, and first let me say that all of, you know, whatever the scenarios are, because you just laid out

some really exciting scenarios. The last 15 minutes of this has been really kind of do this. What if they do that? Right. They could go this way. I mean, that's fun. Right.

Right. Here's what excites me about that conversation. Options. Yes. Anticipation. This is the part of the Sarsa formula, story, anticipation, reality, surprise and action. The anticipation, which I think is one of the five, of the five, anticipation, I think they're all equally important. But I can't imagine anything being successful that doesn't have a lot of anticipation. And that's what you have right now, given all of the quality options that are sitting before us and sitting before Bruce and Paul Aveck, all in the writers that are working with them, all of those options, any one of them creates anticipation.

And that's a beautiful thing. As far as the details of it, what I prefer and what I don't prefer, this is a part where I try to help people understand. I'm not excited about the wrestling business necessarily by what happens in the ring. Right. It relates to the business of the business. I'm more interested in the direction of the business patterns I see business-wise. Patterns I see creatively, of course, because that leads to business. But I don't get caught up in the fantasy booking thing.

I just don't. In the case of WWE and Cody and Roman and Rock, I honestly know that there's so many great ways to go and options that I truly am in a, I'm just going to sit back and enjoy it mode. It's going to be a lot of fun. I can't wait to see what happens. We're just a few weeks away or a couple weeks away now from the Royal Rumble. Less than that countdown is on. You and I are going to have a lot of fun there with all of our ad-free shows family. And now it feels like a good time to remind everybody that we've got a brand new series over on ad-free shows. And I know it's something you're going to really dig, Eric. It's called Beyond Nitro.

Our pal, Guy Evans, the author of the fabulous Nitro book, is joining us over at ad-freeshows.com for a new exclusive monthly series. Beyond Nitro will feature in-depth, exclusive long-form articles, each expanding upon many of the key elements, themes, and stories discussed in the Nitro book. Maybe Reading's Not Your Thing, well, each piece will also be narrated by Guy and available in both audio and video form. on the debut episode Guy's going to examine what we all love so much wrestling nostalgia. Why has fans' interest

in the Monday Night Wars lasted for so long or there be the same level of interest 20 years from now relative to today's wrestling? What's changed? What hasn't changed? And why does it matter? Check out Beyond Nitro this January

exclusively on ad-freeshows.com and of course when you join at ad-freeshows.com not only to get to hear the shows early in ad-free, you get to pee a part of our live studio audience, including some folks who joined us this morning. How about PJ Taints? What a name. Easier in our studio this morning,

along with Jeff Hayes and a lot of other folks. Shout out to Mike Coop and J.B. And Coach Keith. There's a lot of folks hanging out in the group chat. Little Jimmy Sorensons here. Anthony's here. Greatly appreciate you guys showing up early on a Sunday morning to hang out. Appreciate you, Aaron.

and so many others who decided to join us for our live studio audience this morning, De Novius Max in the house. We appreciate all the support. Not only do you get to be a part of the live recordings, you get bonus content from each of my podcasts that we actually host here, one new piece of bonus content every single month, and it's always with the host. So Arne Anderson will come on.

Kurt Angle will come on, the road dog will come on. You get to be on camera, ask these guys your questions, do a piece of bonus content. It is a fantastic opportunity for you to sign up and get more of what you really enjoy, this nostalgia of professional wrestling. We love so much. One of my favorite series is called The Book. It's with David Crockett, and we take his brother's red book from the fantastic

booking mind of Dusty Roads and the excellent penmanship of J.J. Dillon. We break down every month, every week, every day, every show, including the gate. We're talking dollars and cents. And, of course, we add a little context to what's going on with the business with a member of wrestling royalty, Mr. David Crockett. So to actually see the actual booking sheets from those days is an excellent trip down memory lane. We just wrapped up in 1985. We're getting 1986 kicked off this month.

Make plans to join us over at adfreeshows.com. So Eric, let's talk about some other news and notes and more specifically maybe drawing some parallels between AEW and WCW. When All Elite Wrestling launched, it was on T&T, of course. with dynamite and it was just two hours a week and they started to do other tapings things like dark and elevation where those were really YouTube shows but nobody respectfully paid all that much attention to them but it was important to get guys reps and get people an opportunity to get familiar with the AEW audience super serve that insatiable AEW audience at times and just reps for their performers

but it starts as a two-hour program and with the expansion of meteorites which is something that WCW never participated in because they were a television company the goal was to provide more content so with the success of dynamite comes more money and more TV time requested

so we launch in 2021 Rampage so now we've got a second show third hour and this is all under the Warner Brothers Discovery banner they recently put out a press release sort of touting the success Warner Brothers did so that's got to be a good sign for AW folks

but Nitro eventually and I guess we should mention you had Saturday night Saturday night was there before Nitro was there the syndicated shows like pro and main event they were there before Nitro was there but when you added in thunder, man, you were dead set against it, according to your book. And you felt like it might dilute the actual show.

And I'm wondering now, as we've passed the six month mark of collision, do you think that collision has perhaps had a similar effect on dynamite, the same way Thunder did on nitro? Or is there any parallel that can be drawn at all? No, I think there's a lot of parallels. And if you go back, you and I talked about this when it was announced that, you know, AEW and this is why I was still very supportive. So this perspective that I'm going back now on is comments I made is probably five years old.

My perspective then was don't do it, Tony. I know there's reasons to do it. There's always a reason to do something you want to do. If I want to do something stupid, I can justify it anyway in a million different ways and make it sound good to myself. Bad habit. But I was critical of it. I said, I think it's a mistake based on my experience. It was a mistake because you not only, in the case of WCW,

I was worried about dilution saturating the product. There's only so much time in everyone's lives for your product. Whatever it is. I watched a series, Lori and I started a series, Lori and I started a series the other night called Hijack. Phenomenal series. Phenomenal storytelling. A lot of great things about the show.

Hijacked. Check it out. But I can only watch an hour of at a time. I can't sit and watch something for four or five hours. Or if it's a longer series and maybe there's six, eight, ten seasons, I'm not going to watch two or three hours of anything, no matter how much I love it every night or even once a week. Right?

So my concern with WCW came Nitro and Thunder was about just audience fatigue. How much more wrestling will my audience make time for? And then, as you think through that, you realize that there are probably some that are going to, a large percentage, they're going to go, you know what, I'm just not going to watch four hours of wrestling in prime time. My wife will divorce me. My kids will leave, whatever. A dog will piss on the floor, whatever.

You know, you're spending too much time watching wrestling. You know, you're going to lose some of that. So which one are they going to pick? And at the end of the day, there's audience fatigue. But the real problem, and this is what concerned me the most five years ago with AEW, which has kind of borne out to be true, I guess, is that in doing these different shows or whatever justifications may exist, you're not only diluting the product on television,

but you're diluting your resources, your creative resources. Because you've got a young company five years ago. Everybody's learning on the job. Creating, writing, producing, and executing great wrestling is a difficult job. Made more so when the people doing it have no real experience. Right. And have to learn as they go.

And then to dump other obligations and expose your product to the audience when you don't have the experience, the infrastructure, the staff, or the vision creatively, and now you're dumping more pressure on you, we're seeing how that's playing out. Had Tony waited, in my opinion, this is not a fact, this is just me, having been there and done that, and have. having had tremendous success and some pretty abysmal failures along the way. I have the unique perspective of looking at things from both angles, objectively. I don't weigh one over the other. I think they're both equally valuable when it comes to those two perspectives, from success and from lack thereof. And my opinion back then was don't do it yet.

Make your core brand healthy and stand on its own, even if it means saying, Not yet to your broadcast partner because they don't want you to fail. Even though they say, we want another show, you can't say no. I didn't. Here's that mistake category. I didn't because I was working for the guy that said he wanted more. I didn't have the option of saying no, perhaps. I'll never know.

But I didn't. And the result was the result. I just, I really hope. I hope your critics listen. because I mean, I know that there's a lot of people who've decided that they don't like you and they don't like this program without ever actually listening. They just read a clickbait headline here, there somewhere. That's what we've been saying from the beginning.

You're uniquely qualified to talk about the successes and the failures. And you saw what got WCW hot and you saw what ultimately saw WCW circle the drain. And so when I feel like people are, and I don't know, I feel like I take it. more personally than you do sometimes. But when people are just dragging you through the mud and saying, oh, he killed two promotions, hey, mucker father, WCW had never had a profit before Eric Bischoff.

And let's make a list of all the promoters who went head to head and tried to fight Vince McMahon and show me where anybody beat him once, whether it was Bill Watts or it was the Grams or it was Vern or Don Owen or the Crockets. I mean, just make a list. they all lost only one guy had Vince on his heels and he beat him over a hundred times but 83 times in a row the reason we named the show that

but just to remind people who Eric is and not this bullshit narrative that oh it bankrupted two companies bitch it was already bankrupt when he got there neither one of them had ever turned to profit what are you talking about he got wrestling hotter than ever because he did something different

And he can come on this program and say, oh, I don't know if I would do that. And you should listen because he saw what worked. And more importantly, he saw what didn't work. But instead, it's this gotcha thing like, well, in the end, his didn't work out. Who's did, Mucker Fother? Who's did? Eric's did for a little while. Nobody else has did at all ever in the history of time and space.

And I just love when you get on here and you're like, hey. And when I got Thunder, and here's a failure, I didn't say no because I couldn't say no. I just think that's, that makes you an evolved human being, Eric, and I hope that your critics will listen to that and understand that you are perhaps the only person qualified to comment on this sort of thing. Well, thank you for that. And again, the criticism or the perspective is from that position of that. I've never come at any situation or conversation or question or challenge.

Well, I did this and then I proved that I was right. No, brother. I mean, I've, I've had some great success. I've had some, as I said, abysmal failures. And I've had a lot of stuff in between. Right. And to be able to kind of have a analytical layer over my perspective that allows me to kind of break down what led to the success and what led to the failures or mistakes or bad choices is fun for me to talk about and I don't it is it is frustrating when

you hear that narrative you know I didn't run TNA I expressly demanded in my contract with TNA from day one that I not be an employee or have anything to do with the operations of the business but yet according to some I bankrupted TNA and by the way WCW never filed for bankruptcy right and TNA's still going Nothing was bankrupted. So this, this, you know, Dex Hardwood narrative and the bullshit out there, it is frustrating.

But I, you know, I don't really care. I want to keep doing what I do. It doesn't matter. I'm having fun, you know. It's all that matters to me. And I tell you what else you're having fun with. And that's our friends at Magic Spoon. You and I have been such a big believer in this.

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So let's jump back into it. We know that you're diluting the product a little bit at the end of WCW because you started with a two-hour nitro. Now you've got a three-hour nitro. Now you've got two hours for Thunder. You've got two hours for Saturday night. You've got syndication. Plus you've got a three-hour pay-per-view every month.

And there's so much competition. Monday Night Raw, eventually Smackdown. and, of course, ECW is on TV. Man, the late 90s, there was a lot of wrestling content on television. Yeah, you know, it's easy to forget. So you look at a graphic like that, because we look at everything that's going on now

and there's, you know, there's TNA and, you know, what is it, women's wrestling organization out of L.A., which, by the way, it's kind of doing, it's interesting to follow them too in syndication. Wow. Wow. Yeah.

you've got New Japan you've got so much stuff going on obviously AEW and W but yeah we have a similar kind of situation back then just higher level more network stuff more cable stuff and less obscure stuff do you feel like with the benefit of hindsight that the quality of nitro dropped because of thunder I mean I know that you signed more performers and we've talked about that before guys like Mikey Whiprek and some of the other ECW talent that you would bring in or because you knew that you had this new show that you were going to be booking so guys like Marty Janetti would get another look and all of a sudden Rick Martel was back and I'm excited that all those guys got an opportunity and got a payday and yada yada yada

I think all that's great but I am curious the stress that it put on the team behind the scenes, whether it was the production people, the rigors, the truck drivers, the people who set the ring up, but then just creatively, like, it's one thing to have to come up with, and I just want to take a time out for a minute, just talk about regular TV. Some of your favorite TV shows that you still love and celebrate all these years later, like right now is the 25-year anniversary of the Sopranos. Most of those seasons had 13 episodes. Some seasons would have 10 episodes of your.

favorite TV show. Someone might even have like eight. But we're talking about in a 13 episode season, 13 hours of content that we're going to put out once a year. So with Nitro being two hours, you're already starting with not 13 hours this year of content we've got to create, but 104 hours. Now we had a third hour. We had another 52 hours.

And oh, you know what? now they want thunder let's add another 104 like eventually bankruptcy's been a big word today you start to be creatively bankrupt a little bit do you not i mean that's the biggest issue you can hire more production to your staff you can put an ad in a paper and do that right know what i mean by that yeah you can find you can find more highly qualified people in the marketplace to to add to your labor staff you can hire more wrestling talent i did that The intellectual property side of it, the mental horsepower, the creative horsepower, that's where it becomes difficult, in my opinion.

And in my experience, it's not my opinion. It's my opinion based on experience, not only in WCW, but as a talent in WWE and as the director of Smackdown. The same challenges existed, and I'm sure they exist to this day at some level. If you don't have two separate, fully functional, finely tuned, proven creative teams that can focus only on their stories and their arcs or their respective shows, you cannot help but to convolut, dilute, and do damage to your creative process.

it's weird math and I don't know if it's true but it was for me you've got a three hour show over here on nitro which was you know that was mentally tough anyway creatively tough to hold an audience for three hours is fucking ridiculous but whatever that was the job now you add another two hours now you got a great creative team go back and look at those ratings you look at the success critically or otherwise you look at the revenues you look at any metrics you want to look at during that period of time, WCW was rocking and rolling. We were almost printing money.

Throw thunder into the mix. Now what happens? And you can point fingers creatively and you can sit on the sidelines and do your Dave Meltzer bullshit, dirt sheet bullshit, and come up with all your reasons why, based on your vast experience of having been there and done it, well, I'm sorry, not, as to why things turned out the way they did. That's the internet narrative. From my perspective, as an operator, as the guy who is overseeing the process

and trying to create it, it's like if you need a hundred pounds of creative weight in order to be successful driving that three-hour show, Nitro. Now you get another show in prime time. the weight on that creative team doesn't double, it almost triples. That's where the collapse happens. That's why you need to have two proven, functional, provable creative teams focusing on nothing but their respective shows in order to stand a chance. Otherwise, if you've got one team trying to do both.

right you've got you're you're on a path to disaster eventually it may take may take six months may take six years but you're going to crash and burn it's just not possible can't keep up you can't be nobody's that good nobody's that good of course the big difference between then and now i mean this is something we should discuss because you were sort of dictated too, because WCW was owned by a television company. So there wasn't a function of, hey, guys, we're trying to grow our business. Let's see if we can sell another show. And after your wrestling life was over, you did go sell shows and you did quite well during

that. But this is a different circumstance. You're not selling another show. You're not creating more revenue. you're just being dictated to that you got to do it. Now, conversely, these days, a lot of people would say Tony Con in the 2023, 2024 landscape, the biggest revenue item for WW or AW or any wrestling company

is that rights fee. Gone are the days of we make the most of our money on pay-per-view. We make most of our money on ticket sales and touring house shows. Rights fees are sort of a standard. and wrestling as you've pointed out several times here on the program compared to another type of television programming is pretty affordable to produce. It's still expensive, but compared to a drama

where they spend a year to create 13 episodes, this is a little easier to produce and it can have a more consistent audience because when you're spinning up a new show and you're hoping it builds an audience and it gains some steam, it runs for 13 weeks, and then it's off the air until a year from now, and now you've got to just repeat this cycle.

So understanding all that, I think, is important as a wrestling fan. He's probably feeling the pressure to super serve his television partner because he wants to get a bigger deal the next time around. It's a slippery slope because it feels like if you're not growing, you're dying in business a lot of times. So I'm sure when given the opportunity to perhaps get this other, hour of television and maybe spin up another brand. Because we

saw, for instance, you know, Smackdown was firmly the second tier brand. Raw was the A show for decades. But when Smackdown went to Fox, SmackDown became the A show. And Raw became the B show. And now that Smackdown is leaving Fox and they're going

to USA, Raw is looking for a home. So all of a sudden it feels like Smackdown is still the A show. show, and that became the show that USA wants, do you see a scenario where as AEW is continuing to try to grow that they too don't have all their eggs in one basket, and they're trying to have this show with this platform and this show with that platform from a business strategy standpoint, Nick Con probably can't get all the money he wants for both Raw and Smackdown out of one party. He needs two separate. I mean, that's good for business.

Do you think that's the angle that Tony will approach as he looks to renew collision and dynamite? I would hope he would at least consider it. The difference is WWE with Raw and Smackdown have considerable leverage. AEW doesn't. I'm talking just from a purely performance perspective. And another thing that never gets discussed is none of us have access to the information. It's not because anybody's hiding anything. When you're separating from the military, no one tells you.

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brand and apparel, drinkwear, outdoor, and more. Your order will be packed with care, delivered on time and backed by their 360 degree guarantee. That's Four Imprint certainty. Need your order fast? For Imprint offers quick turnaround options too. Visit fourimprint.com and see how easy ordering can be for imprint for certain but until you have a complete picture of the ad sales success of any program smackdown raw dynamite collision whatever if you don't have some visibility into the economics from a network perspective of how those ads are performing it doesn't matter what the ratings are kids it doesn't matter what the demos are kids if you can't sell advertising in the show because it's just not a show people want to be in. It's what's called

a make-good destination, meaning you are there, your content, you're filling time, but they're just taking previous other commitments and have nothing to do with your show and trying to fulfill them with the eyeballs your show delivers. That's not ideal. That is not an ideal situation. Conversely, if you have a show that has viable advertising clients that are interested and committed and spend money in your show because they like your show and the results that it performs or it gets in the audience that makes up its demographics, it almost the same is true. The ratings become less relevant if the cost per thousands with regard to the advertising

rates that the network's getting are sufficient or exceed other programming. So so much depends on how you're doing with the advertising rates and how ad sales likes you. You're hard to sell. it doesn't matter if you're AEW what your ratings are what the PR what the press release says that's all spin anybody who's hanging their heads on a press release is obviously never been in the industry it's just exactly what it says public relations not a business statement yeah it's not a business indicator yeah i um i've said it before here on the program but i think one of the you know again i know it's no longer a startup you know we're five

years in at this point. But it's still a young company. And infrastructure is still something they're adding. Like we just saw the announcement last week that was made a public that they've hired a new C-O. And I think the more of that infrastructure they add, obviously that's great for AEW. But one of the things I hope that they're working on it, because I don't have any inside knowledge, is a sales team. Because I know for sure, WWE has had an ad sales team forever. And if you watch the program, and I don't know this for sure, but it feels like they have two AEW specific sales on that program, the insurance company State Farm and Draft King.

Outside of that, it looks like it's just like Turner sort of run of site ads where I'm just buying whatever's on T&T on Wednesday at 8 o'clock or whatever. I'm curious from your perspective, do you think a key to this next round? of television rights negotiations is going to be what sponsors Tony knows he's got regardless of where he is. Like, when we go to so-and-so, I know I got this one in my back pocket, they're going with me. That's important, is it not?

It is, and I think that, I mean, it comes down to what we were just talking about. Your ability to bring ad sales specifically to your program is key in any business decision as it relates to a network. Because that's how they make their money. Yes. That's it. It's just they've got the beachfront property. They've got a beautiful piece of vacant property. They want to make money with that property. The only money that they can make with that property is by putting a temporary house on it and charging rent for it or a license fee. But if that piece of, if that house that's on that beautiful piece of

beachfront property called prime time, no one wants to rent it or they'll only spend Airbnb money on it at the last minute because there's nothing else available. That's not the house you want on that piece of property. So you move that house somewhere else. Or just build another house. That's where I think dynamite is at. And that's why you add sales. And again, you know, when I watch, when I do watch wrestling because I'm not watching

for necessarily the action in the ring, although I'm entertained by it. It don't get me wrong. But that's not why I turn it on. I'll watch two things first. Before I even pay attention to who's in the ring, I'm watching the reaction from the crowd, any given moment, and I'm watching for the advertisers. I said many times, I look at patterns.

You don't necessarily look at the image in front of me. I look at patterns behind it. And I can at least convince myself, I'm right more often than I'm wrong, by the advertisers within a program, how well that program is doing. Let me give you an extreme example. Yellowstone, when it was hot, every single advertiser that was targeting that male 18 to 49 Dodge truck, Coors Light, testosterone, cowboy, tough guy, bullshit was spending Bucco bucks inside of that show.

That was a destination for ad agencies. They were fighting for an opportunity to advertise in that show. That's an extreme. But the same principle is true in wrestling. And it's the degree to which you can bring advertisers to your show because they're comfortable with it. And that's where having your own sales team, to your point, as I go through this long-winded way of saying, good idea, Conrad. But having your own sales team is critically important. And I'll tell you what, going back to WCW.

WCW had an sales team based in New York. They were very successful. They sold all of the Turner Broadcasting inventory across all of the networks, including WCW. WCW was so unique that those ad salespeople who had no other relationship with WCW, they didn't watch wrestling, they didn't like wrestling, they didn't nothing about wrestling, it was just in the Turner bag of tricks to try to sell. How hard do you think they tried to sell it?

Same thing is true, by the way, I'm sure, for WWE. When you have the network side driving the ad sales, but those network salespeople are human beings, they don't know everything about everything. They don't know the best way to position or sell certain shows or the audience that comes with them. WWE has learned the value of that over decades and decades and decades, which is why they have such a great sales team.

They knew they needed one. That's what Tony needs. Because selling wrestling is different than selling a sitcom or selling a drama or selling animation. Those things are easy to sell. They, in some ways, sell themselves based on their pricing in the marketplace and the performance in terms of ratings. It's not a tough sell.

People are buying numbers. That's the other thing. Media buyers are not buying emotion. you're not buying the fact that AEW and you know they listen to Dax on his podcast and he supplies a lot of people with a way to make a living those are all good things I don't mean to sound disparaging towards a comment but I am because no that fucking shit matters advertisers don't care they don't care they're making non-emotional decisions based on math yeah and that's what Tony needs to do and if they've only got two advertisers regularly they need to beef that up they need to And the only way to do that is by having a dedicated team that is passionate about your product, knows your product inside out, knows how to overcome objections to your project or your product because they know it intimately and the unique aspects of what the unique viewer that loves wrestling brings to the table.

So if you don't have somebody there to communicate that and use that knowledge and passion to overcome the standard objection, which is wrestling. Why would I want to advertise in wrestling? You've got to be able to answer that. Your corporate network salesperson won't. Unless there's a story there, unless there's math there they can do. That's easy. But if it's not easy and it's hard because you're new or you're growing or you're young,

you need somebody that's dedicated. I just want to point out to, you know, I think everybody knows this, but I just want to remind everybody. The first Nitro, like Labor Day 95, and Nitro was done in March of 2001. So we're about the point in time where Nitro started Peter out a little bit relative to the first dynamite to now.

So just timeline-wise, like, brawl out wouldn't be too far, away from where the finger poke of doom was relative to Nitro at the time. Do you think that you know, I mean, I just think Nitro was so important. I mean, clearly

even like the logo for collision was loosely based on dynamite. I mean, that can't be disputed. I'm not dynamite, but Nitro. And I mean, even the name Dynamite, it's so close to Nitro. Clearly, we're leaning on.

that but it had such a big left such a big impression in a relative short amount of time and i know that you have talked about before that you could feel the winds of change and you know the writing was on the wall sort of thing how how important do you think the timing of some sort of quote unquote creative turnaround is for a w because you've been pretty critical of their creative and i know that with the benefit of hindsight this is around the same time, years-wise, where fans started to get a little frustrated with Dynamite or Nitro's

creative as well. So very true. I didn't have thought about it from a timeline perspective, but that's true, isn't it? I mean, just saying loosely, 95 to 99, and now, you know, here we are late 2018 or late 2019 to now, feels close. It's close.

Yeah. And I do. look social media isn't real yeah it's it's a small snapshot into a small part of an overall reality it's not the barometer by which I judge anything to be honest um so you know the the negative now the velocity of of negative comments that I'm hearing about AEW creative that's not related to anything that I say or do in social media I'm just talking about stuff that's floating around out there's stuff you see on the news sites and and reading the comments which i do you know is you know i see something posted whether it has something to do with me or not i'd check those comments and in the beginning this goes back to

the goodwill that i talked about when i first started supporting w or AEW because they had so much goodwill everybody was sure hell wwe writers in the room that were watching the premiere episode with me we're cheering them on that was just everybody was so excited and that has value, that goodwill has value, but you can wear it out. How many times have you heard me quote Gary Considine, former executive producer for tonight show with Jay Leno at NBC when he said to me, Eric, once the audience decides to vote with their remote, it's almost impossible to get them back. And what I'm seeing in terms of ratings, in terms of ticket sales to taping or to

productions of dynamite and collision and all that, you're losing. losing the goodwill. The audience is voting with their remote and they're voting with their pocketbooks and they're losing ground. So I think it's critical whatever Tony's doing and people could take this any way they want I really, really, really have so no fucks to give. But if I was Tony and I wasn't feeling secure in my renewal position, negotiation position, I'd be cutting back on content and beefing up my creative and coming to those meetings with a plan of how this business is how I'm going to grow my audience.

I would bring that into the negotiation because the trajectory that they're on right now is a beach house, a beautiful piece of property and the foundation is cracking. The house is starting to tilt. It hasn't collapsed yet. But fewer and fewer people are interested in renting that piece of property. or in this case of watching that. Not good. Beef up creative, Tony. Learn how to use AI.

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But at Shop Wrestlingmerch.com, you can shop with confidence for your favorite WW Superstar T's, Hoodies, Hodies, Caps, belts, and more, all with WW Shop, but be sure to use our special link, Shop Wrestlingmerch.com, to support the show. Speaking of WW Superstars, a part of our live studio audience, Mr. Jimmy Sorensen wants to know, do you think MJF is still in at EW or is he WW bound? there's been lots of rumor and innuendo about MJF's contract and is he going? Is he not? There's been other speculation while Andrade is no longer with AEW and he's canceled some

independent bookings will we see him come back and what about Sasha? Where is she going to land and Trinity finishing up with impact? Is she headed back at the Royal Rumble? Do you have a read on any of these talents and we'll start first with MJF? certainly I don't have a read on anything, so let's, you know, I'll just play a game with myself. I think MJF is really, really smart. I think he's probably as good of a businessman intuitively as he is on the mic. He's an experience. He's young, but I just have a lot of faith in his critical thinking process. So my

Guess would be he stays because the more of these big names that go, more valuable he becomes. Now, if he's going to make an emotional decision, that will be different because he's frustrated or emotionally, perhaps he gets a little greedy and thinks that I can make a little more money over there or whatever. But if I'm a smart guy like MJF and I'm seeing all these big names who came in with all this promise and hope and going to change the wrestling world and a shocking surprise that absolutely achieved nothing because primarily they weren't given the opportunity. It's not their fault, is what it is.

But if I'm MJF, I'm staying put. I'm raising my price or enjoying the benefit of being the focus of the company. Yes, there you go. I think it's really, really crowded at the top right now. in WWE with potentially rock being involved and we know Cody's there and punk's there and Romans there and oh did we mention Seth Rollins and Randy Orton and and and and LA Knight here he comes

and why not keep doing what you're doing if you're MJF that's what I would expect to see happen a lot of people wondering about Mercedes Monet Mike Hoop who's watching along with us says a lot of speculation on Sasha Banks showing up in AEW but do you think it'll be more likely she shows back up in WWE or TNA? Now the TNA question comes up because allegedly, according to the rumor and innuendo, that was her and those hat and glasses sitting next to what looked like Bailey

watching the T&A pay-per-view where they saw Jordan Grace and Trinity Fah 2 to absolutely tear it up. What do you think? Do you think we see Mercedes-Money in AEW, WWE? Or T&A? Not even a guess. Not even a guess. I have no, I don't think I've ever had a syllable of conversation with her. I don't know what she's thinking.

I only know what I read, which is very little because I'm not paying attention to her, but she evidently had a meeting with WWE, started negotiating it didn't go well. That was a bad side. Did it not go well or did we just hear it didn't go well? Well, that's what we heard, as I said. I don't know. I'm just reading the bullshit on the internet. I know zero.

So I don't know. I don't know her motivation. I mean, she's going to make more money and have more success than WWE. There's no question about that. So from a financial point of view, it's a WWE move. Now, is there shit going on backstage or relationship-wise? Is there political baggage there that is clouding the picture? I don't know.

but if I'm if I'm her or if I'm her agent or business manager I'm going to try to go to WWE because that's where she's going to make the largest amount of money and they also have to think much like Jake Cargo I don't know I've never talked to her either obviously but you know you get these young female or male talents that are emerging and negotiating do you want to work for a company that's owned in part or owns I should say endeavor one of the largest media agencies in the world where you have an opportunity to perhaps expand your performance career long after your wrestling career is over. Can you work your way into movies like John Cena or Batista or obviously Rock?

Because working in a company that is owned or owns an endeavor provides you a lot better at least window into some of those opportunities. But it all depends on a talent's goals and whether they're thinking critically long-term or emotionally short-term. Let's

you know, I don't know that she'll make the most money with WWE. I think Sasha could make more money with AEW, but I don't think that it can be debated that if you want to be a bigger star on a

not just in the wrestling bubble WWE is more likely to make you a bigger stably more money per appearance in AEW that's just. Oh yeah no look you can go to the Jacks Harwood you know Tony Kahn you know AEW ATM machine because I think clearly now Tony Kahn has taken that title from me and I and I'm glad to share it with him or just give it to

him but could she you know could Tony in whatever state of mind, Tony happens to be in at any given moment, go, I'm really ready to buy the policy services and I'm going to spend whatever. I'm going to out, I'm going to outbid for her services because I can because I'm a trust fund baby. I don't have to account to anybody or actually make any money. Stop saying that. She could write it. I know that was a shot. I'm sorry. That did. Not really. But could she make more money with Tony? Yes. But her career as a star is effectively. And if you don't agree, not you, but if one doesn't agree with that statement,

look at any other quote unquote former WWE star that is better off today than they were at the peak of their careers in W. I'm talking about the guys who were on their way out the door or the guys that really, you know, hadn't been used very often. I'm talking about people that were at their peak of their careers in WWE. They make that move to AEW. Their career is not what it was. It's the end of the road.

But if the end of the road comes to the big old fat paycheck so you don't need any more road, I'd be right there with you. I'd do the same thing. Well, let's say this. I do think they've done a great job with Sting. I think AW's done a much better job with Singh than WW did. He's got that undefeated streak. We talked about his tag match at the top of the show.

It looks like that show is going to sell out. I would imagine that they would open up even more tickets, production kills and whatnot, and continue to sell more and more tickets. they're over 15,000 at this point. Who knows where it'll stop? Another question from Jimmy here. He wants to know that you watched Smackdown this last Friday and do you believe it further heighten the suspense

to the pay-per-view Royal Rumble. See you in Florida. Did you watch SmackDown? I did not. Hey, Jimmy, how are you? I look forward to see you there. Obviously, we're going to have some fun. No, I did not.

I don't know what I was doing Friday night. I'll be freezing my ass off. I know what you were doing Friday night. You were eating good thanks to Riverbend. You've been on this carnival. diet for a while now, and getriverbend.com has been your hookup. They've been your go-to for your new carnivore diet. Tell us about Riverbend, Eric.

Conrad, I'm going to send you some of the ground beef that I have. I just had it last night. It is, the quality of this product is unbelievable. It's so different. I mean, it's noticeable. I made hamburgers last night that tasted like I, I was biting into a sirloin steak. They're that good.

And the reason they're that good, there's a lot of reasons. First of all, the meat itself comes from cattle that have been bred meticulously over the course of the last 27 years for flavor, for tenderness, for richness. It's been an ongoing process. The folks at River Bend processed their own meat. everything that you get through river that I get through riverbed comes to their own processing facilities that's important for a lot of reasons going back to the beef again i got ahead of myself no hormones no antibiotics grass fed at high altitudes in the mountains why does that matter because it's reflected in the quality of the product these are not 10 raised cattle that eat nothing but grain

and don't get access to grass. Grass fed, no hormones, this is really important to me, no antibiotics, even more important to me. Aged, they not only process, and this is the game changer, this is the thing that separates River Bend from everybody else. When you go into your favorite steakhouse, wherever that is, in any city,

and you order the most expensive steak on the menu, $8,500, $1305, $145,000, $145,000, whatever it is, I guarantee you, without even knowing the restaurant that that state, that meat, has been aged because that's the game changer. The reason most people don't do it and you have to pay through the nose to get it is because now you've got all of that inventory hanging in an aging cooler at a very specific temperature and humidity for a period of about 28 or 30 days, 28 days, I think, or 26 days, that it's aged at a specific temperature.

And you know, Conrad, you're a much better businessman than I am, having all of that inventory sitting there waiting and you're not making money on it. Yeah. Cost money. Yeah. River Bend ages out of their product. They package it, vacuum packaging it, it's sent to your house. It is the best quality I've ever had.

And if you go to getriverbend.com, you compare the prices for their packages that you can deliver. You can select from all kinds of different practices packages. Compare it to other companies that provide the same service. service, compare the quality of the meat, benefits, and whether it's age or not, and then compare the price. You'll be shocked. You'll be thanking me, and you'll be enjoying brown beef, steaks, bacon, whatever it is, the way we do.

Getriverbend.com is your hookup. That's get riverbend.com. Let's hear a few more questions. Then we'll wrap this one up. Donovius Mac wants to know. This is a great question. If Randy Orton was in the Monday Night Wars in WCW, how would you book him? Would he be a heel?

Would he be a face? Would you have, how would you have booked him? I mean, we know he was a big fan of Nitro. I don't want to sound obsessive, compulsive when it comes to Randy. But I love his heel work. I just think he is a heels heel. He, he reminds me of Nick Bockwickle. He's that heel.

That's a great heel. So I don't know. Even if it made more sense on paper for him to be a baby face, because I love his heel work so much, it would take a lot of conversation and possibly a deadly weapon to get me to change my mind. We know that WCW was really crowded at the time. top, you know, just off the top of my head, Paul Kogan, Rick Flair, Sting, Lex Lugar, the giant, Randy Savage, Scott Hall, Kevin Nash, Goldberg, Goldberg, DDP. I mean,

there's 10, no doubt about it. I mean, we didn't even get into the Booker T's and the Scott Steiner's, but there's 10 tippy top guys right away. I ask all of this because Coach Keith has a question for us. He says, with all the people that are supposedly going back to the WWE, is there enough room for everybody or are top talent's going to lose their spots or was this a dumb question? I don't think it's a dumb questionary because I do feel like it had to become difficult for you to be a people pleaser for all of your top stars. And now in the

WWE side of thing, they've spent a lot of time building LA night. Roman Raines is still the man. We've been trying to build Jimmy and Jay Uso. We've made Sammy Zane and Kevin Owen's even bigger stars because of the bloodline and the match with Stone Cold. Cody's here. Punk is here. Rock's coming back.

Randy Orton's back. AJ Stiles is back. It feels like everywhere you look, man, there's just top talent. It feels a little bit like peak WCW. Did that present a challenge to you to keep everyone happy and everyone engaged?

Such a great, great question. because it's the nuance, right? It's, you bring in, whoever the, I'm not going to name names, you bring in your Tony Con, you bring in a former WWE talent that had been operating at a very, very high level. That's still mid, mid-peak of a career, all right? You bring that talent in, everybody gets excited, Tony's excited,

the audience is excited, everybody's excited, internet's excited, Dave Mouser's excited, everybody's happy. but you fail to utilize that talent to the talent's expectation or goals. Now, every talent has a different expectation or goal. There are some talents that you can bring in. All they care about is money. As long as that check keeps showing up, probably won't hear from them. Believe it or not, those are few and far between.

The reason that most talent become talent is because they have this weird drive to perform. One of them. it's just part of who you are. And getting that check in the mail every two weeks, however big it is, is wonderful in the beginning. But it's amazing how quickly that emotionally you get very used to the money, almost like I'm outed it. And once that newness, that new car smell of that big check every two weeks coming in, once that new car smell of that aspect of your life comes you become nose blind to it you don't notice it anymore it's still a wonderful thing you're still getting a giant check every two weeks

you have stability you can plan for you their future you can invest you can pay off debt you can send your kids in college you do all these great things and in the beginning you're excited about it but after a while it's like yeah yeah okay but I really want to get out there and perform because that's what got you to the point make that kind of money most talents that really passionate about performing, and I would say that's probably 60, 70% of them. They want to get out there and perform. That's where bringing in somebody who's a big name, who's used to being out there and connecting with the audience, getting a reaction, wherever they are on the card,

once you take that away from them and you just send them a check, you're going to hear from them. Sometimes it takes a couple weeks, a couple months, sometimes it'll take a year. But eventually that chatter, that discontent, that frustration of being in the witness protection program when you bring all of this equity to the table that everybody was so excited about initially and now nobody can find you it's it's frustrating as a talent and then that chatter starts to hear the murmurings in the background the rest of the roster friends the families whatever and it starts getting a little hotter and becomes problem managing talent first of all managing

is an art form in itself. My hat's off to JR or anybody else that's ever done it and successfully at the level that JR did it, especially. I am, that's a job all by itself. You need to be a shrink. You need to be a counselor. You need to be friends. You need to be a husband.

You need to be a wife. You need to be a brother. You need to be so many different things to really manage talent. But the other thing you really need to do is show that they have real opportunity. Hey, you mentioned J.R. I wanted to ask about him and then we'll put a button on this week's episode. I recently did an episode with Jim and as we were doing our discussion, we did it. Here's a peek behind the curtain. We normally record on a Wednesday morning. We wound up recording on a Thursday morning because AEW did their homecoming show in Jacksonville.

So I wanted to be able to talk to Jim one morning removed from him being back at AEW because they ran Oklahoma recently when he was at his Oklahoma house. now they've run Jacksonville when he was at his Jacksonville home. So we got to just talk about his experience. And through the course of our conversation, he disclosed, and I couldn't believe this, contracts up February 14th. So he's finishing up with AEW on February 14th. Maybe they'll re-sign him. Maybe they won't.

I don't know. But as a fan, I said a few weeks ago, I really thought it would be cool if he and Tony Chivani were on the call for Sting's last match. If you go back and you watch that very first clash of the champion, from 1988. It was Rick Flair and Sting, and that show is one of the first times that Tony Chivani was on a call with Jim Ross

because that was right after the whole Watts thing that happened, yada, yada, yada. But I thought that would be really cool to put them back together for what was Sting's match that sort of put him on the map in Greensboro with Rick Flair, now have him together on the call

with Tony Chivani with Rick Flair in his corner for Sting's last match in the same building as a wrestling fan who loves the old school, I could get excited about that. I hope it happens, but that's a few weeks after his contract expires. If you were Tony, would you try to keep JR on the payroll?

Would you let JR retire peacefully if that's what he wants to do? Or would you leave him on the board knowing that he could certainly go to WWE as well? I feel like they've been doing a good job with Jim when they've used him recently, where he's coming in for main events. He does give that big fight feel and make the main event feel special. If you were calling the shots, what would you do with Jim Ross in his contract in 2024?

I would make Jim Ross the Hulk Hogan of announcers for my company. Make him an attraction. Keep him special. Build up his legacy. Showcase him. make him the John Madden, if you will, of professional wrestling. Because that's who he is. It's not even make him bad.

It's take advantage of the fact that he is and promote it and build it and use him right spots. Much like they used Undertaker towards the end of his career. Much like we used Hogan initially in W.O. Four times a year, four pay-per-views a year. He's an attraction. Yeah. Much like they've done with the Rock. much like they've done with John Cena.

The formula is right there for everybody to see. It's not like I'm reinventing a wheel here, folks. Right. It works. It's a, go to the playbook. It works. Built him up. Make him that voice.

Don't over expose him. Jim is at that stage of his career too, right? Travels harder. It's just, look. It's just what it is, folks. And Jim had a couple of health issues, you know, slow him down along the way as well as personal issues that help slow him down along the way. But the talent is still there.

It's up to you as a producer to take advantage of that asset. The asset and its benefits don't just show up. You have to find ways to exploit the asset to maximize the benefits. And Jim Ross is a perfect example of how and why Tony should do that. I hope he does it. I think the world of Jim, I think he's the voice of wrestling. thing. It's not just a gimmick he really is. And I think he would be important for this next round of television rights for whoever, like whoever is going to be making a new deal for

a television show on their network. They're going to want to know what's it going to look like, what's it going to sound like, what's it going to feel like. And I think JR having all that brand equity and all that legacy, that adds a lot. You know, no disrespect to the other announced team. I love the right. I think the world has an Excalibur and Nixalibur and and Kevin Kelly and but if you grew up in the money every one of every one of those names are doing a great job absolutely but you've got as you said the Hulk Hogan of announcing the Babe Ruth of announcing you want to be able to play that card when you need it and we greatly appreciate you guys tuning in the day here for 83 weeks it was a bit of a different episode

we're going to do some new experimenting and we're even going to try going live on YouTube of the new year. So if you haven't already, what are you waiting for? Go hit the subscribe button and turn on the notifications bell at 83 weeks on YouTube.com. And if you've got a question for us or a response, we would love to hear from you on social media. Eric is very active. He would love to spar with you at E. Bischoff on Twitter or X, whatever you call it. He's also on Instagram at the real Eric Bischoff. You get to see his dog and his sauna and his lovely wife and Nikki and the grandkids and the whole deal, but you can interact with the show at 83 weeks on Twitter, Instagram, Facebook.

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eric i never know what to expect when we click record and i damn sure didn't expect you to be gone because you got a pee we took it all out of eric this week thought he was going to come in hot on Tony and FTR. He did it right in the nick of time. I tried to beat that read. I just couldn't do it. I was a little nervous clicking record today. I knew you were going to be ready to go to war and do some war games.

I wore my camo. I stopped short of putting some war pain on. But man, this was fun today. And we lived. And FTR lived. And we'll live to fight another day. It was fun. I always enjoy the show.

And I think that's one of the things that you know when you talk about narrative. This show is fun for me. Like it's one of the, I love my life and I got a lot of other things going on in my life. But this show allows me to kind of stay a little bit connected now to the business and talk about it in a way that's fun for me. And I love working with you. Dave Silva does a great job.

So thank everybody for listening. I hope you find it entertaining. because I'm entertaining the hell out of myself. And we're going to do it again next week, right here on 83 weeks with Eric Bischoff. Hey, hey, it's Conrad Thompson, here to tell you a little more about what ad-free shows.com is all about. Get early, ad-free access to more than a dozen of your favorite wrestling podcast every single week, starting at just nine bucks. That's less than 20 cents an episode each month. And yes, you can listen to them all directly through Apple.

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