83 Weeks with Eric Bischoff - Episode 306: Top Star Heavy

Starting point is 00:00:00 Hey, hey, it's Conrad Thompson, and you're listening to 83 weeks with Eric Bischoff. Eric, what's going on, man? How are you? I'm great, man. I've been out whipping shitties in my pickup truck. Having a great time here in Wyoming. It's going to be like 50 degrees here today. It was beautiful yesterday. It's going to be even nicer today. I was out walking around on my sweatshirt yesterday talking to the, big man here, sea dog, out with my dog having, I got a sun to him. It's crazy. Yeah, not the case here. It's still an ice apocalypse here around my house in Huntsville, but

Starting point is 00:00:42 I managed to venture out for the first time the day with my dad in like a week. It's a big old 10 degrees here, man, and surrounding both of our houses, just a solid sheet of ice. We're ill-prepared here in Alabama, but I had a lot of downtime this week. And I learned the phrase whipping shitties. And my wife was familiar with this, because I guess it was a Minnesotan phrase I was not familiar with. And you educated

Starting point is 00:01:09 me before we clicked record. You too were familiar with whipping shitties. How old were you the first time you whipped a shitty? When I was a kid, it was called spinning donuts. By the time I was in my early teens and whipping shitty entered into

Starting point is 00:01:27 my zeitgeist. probably about 15, 16, once I got my permit, I just, you know, started experimenting and having fun. By the time I was 17, 18, I was semi-pro. Yeah, here in Alabama, man, my whole life, it's just been called donuts, the idea that whipping shitties is a thing. I'm learning, but you live to enlighten here on 83 weeks. We did a fair amount of that last week, Eric. I saw a lot of really high praise from last week's episode. What was the feedback you got? A lot of people were calling it a low-key Eric Fires Back, which we used to have as a special over on ad-freeshows.com, where we would

Starting point is 00:02:07 play clips from old shoot interviews and things like that and give you a chance to respond. And as you said, shred them like a head of cabbage. So be sure to check the archives at ad-freesows. But last week was a little different, man. We recapped your Twitter feud, if you want to call it that with Tony Cohen and then let you respond to some clips from. from FTR where they were promoting a live event at Collision. I saw a really strong feedback online, though. What did you see as response from last week? You know, a lot of feedback as well.

Starting point is 00:02:37 And I noticed a lot of the, you know, it was split. You know, it wasn't, I don't know that it was 50-50. I didn't keep track of it. But there were certainly people that took exception to what I had to say in my response to T.R. But I noticed in looking at a lot of those accounts, they were. And, you know, I don't judge anything by, you know, how many followers people have and shit like that, but there was a pattern of a lot of the really vocal critics

Starting point is 00:03:09 to some of the things I had to say, you know, they had 34 followers and nobody else in the wrestling universe, you know, followed them or did they follow? It's just, I don't know who these people are. I think they're just desperate, lonely. people, for the most part. Now, some of them had some very interesting and defensible arguments, but the vast majority of just, it, it concerned me, concern me for the state of humanity and the wrestling audience as a whole. What do you mean? There's some wacky fuckers out there.

Starting point is 00:03:49 Just, their passions are so misplaced. it concerns me but get that upset about wrestling chatter on social media like it's don't take it that seriously folks it's just fun just having fun here but there were some real serious meltdowns yeah i find that weird uh it is very weird to me like you're you're a guy who was in the industry who worked at it at a high level and i saw a lot of people sort of come into your defense, Kevin Nash over on his fabulous podcast with Sean Oliver, click this, was asked about your interaction and exchange with Tony Kahn and he went on and on and on defending you about how you're the only guy who beat Vince McMahon.

Starting point is 00:04:39 And we've hammered that point here on last week's show. But one thing he did say that I thought was interesting because, of course, I think famously Tony Kine posted that graphic that referred to. to USA, has been. And I like that Kevin said, if nothing else, Eric is a has because he has beaten Vince McMahon. He has had an unbelievable amount of success in professional wrestling and, you know, unique qualifications there.

Starting point is 00:05:14 So a lot of support from the big man over on Click This. He's a smart man. But look, I'm sure there are even some in the wrestling industry that are currently active in it. I'm not going to have got names because I don't know this for a fact. But I'm relatively certain. There are a few very, very powerful names formerly in the business that probably don't understand what I'm doing. I am doing better or very uncomfortable or disappointed what I'm doing.

Starting point is 00:05:46 But, like, you know, I made a decision a couple weeks ago. I've kind of danced around the fact or not. fully embrace the reality that what we do here is important to me. Now, outside of my family and people that are close to me, maybe they wouldn't understand that. But, you know, we get on here every week. We talk about an industry that's important in American pop culture. It's an important part of the television and media industry as a whole.

Starting point is 00:06:20 There's millions and millions and millions of people around the world that are, are interested in the industry and what goes on behind the scenes. And I think this show, I don't want to suggest it, it provides a public service, but it at least gives a different perspective and not to put myself over, I've done it enough and have you. Well, but my perspective is unique in the sense that I actually played at a very high level and have been able to observe so much in that process over the past 30 years that it seems odd to me that on a show like this, when I'm being asked questions, 90% of the time, 95%

Starting point is 00:07:04 of the time, I don't comment on wrestling, especially on any topic in wrestling, especially at this show, unless I'm asked a question. So if there are people out there who are interested in what my perspective is, and I give it honestly, and I try to break. down the reasons why I feel the way I feel based on my experience. And if that still melts, you know, the minds of, of, you know, AEW fans out there, well, I can't do anything. But I'm going to fully embrace it. I'm not going to hold back because I know this is going to sound crazy to some people,

Starting point is 00:07:38 but I actually have tried really hard. Yes. To kind of lay off the whole situation. I've told you that a couple times. And I, but I'm still, I'm asking a question. What am I supposed to say, oh, I'm sorry, I don't have an opinion about AEW or Tony Con because, you know, I don't want him to melt down or his fan base to meltdown. I'm not going to do that.

Starting point is 00:08:00 I'm not going to refuse to answer a question, a general business question, or a question about my perspective, simply because I don't want to hurt anybody's feelings. I'm going to be honest. I'm going to try not to be personal about it. I try to keep my comments in the context of business, strategy, tactics, or lack thereof. But you'll never hear me accuse people of participating in things that are untoward or spreading rumors or creating rumors. That's just not my gig. I don't do that.

Starting point is 00:08:40 There's a lot of things I could be talking about that I absolutely used to discuss because it falls into that day. Meltzer, rumor, and innuendo category. And I just refuse to do that. But you asked me a question about business or my perception, perspective on things that are going on now, not you, but collective out there. I'm going to respond. If you don't like it, what can I say? Don't listen.

Starting point is 00:09:05 Don't follow me on social media. And that's another funny thing. A lot of those people that were like burying me follow me. Yeah. I can't believe you suck. No one wants to hear what you have to say. I can't believe anybody listens to your show. oh really

Starting point is 00:09:17 I'm just going to look and oh you're a follower for the follow dude man it's crazy but we didn't get a ton of feedback I thought right at the top of the show we should respond to some of it or give you a chance to

Starting point is 00:09:30 see what some of the people were saying from our Facebook page which is over easy for you to find at 83 weeks Noel comics would write I like that Eric supposedly hates TK because Tony said he's a better owner

Starting point is 00:09:46 slash Booker than Ted Turner, which he is. Turner wasn't a Booker, L.O.L. But Eric goes to work for Vince McMahon, who did the billionaire Ted Skits. Tony, like Eric in WCW, gets hate because people on the losing end of the industry say he didn't pay his dues. Also, Eric needs to stop acting like Tony never earned anything. Dude helps run two sports teams and a wrestling company. Eric used Ted Turner's money and made crappy Scott Bayo reality shows.

Starting point is 00:10:16 But I guess producing Scott Beow is 45 and pregnant, made E an expert in literary theory. So, yeah, a little bit of hot take there from Noel Comics. What do you think of Noel's comment? Well, first of all, De Silva, could you put that post back up there again? Because there's a lot of ground to cover there. Yeah. I want to try to get it right.

Starting point is 00:10:41 The first thing that I noticed about the comment was that at least it was from a grammatical point of view, at least it was coherent. And I always appreciate that because sometimes I get, you know, posts like this and it's like, you know, you have to kind of run it through artificial intelligence to determine what it actually said. But let's take it kind of one step at a time. I like that Eric supposedly hates TK. right off the bat you lose me on that one i don't hate anybody and i especially don't hate tony i don't i like tony i just don't have any respect for him from a business perspective and there's a big difference there i know that may be a little over your head there no it will be hard for you to to embrace the concept that someone can like someone on a purely social personal level because

Starting point is 00:11:33 i don't know tony god but if i saw him on a street i'd wave if i saw him in a restaurant i'd sat by and shake Kansas say hello, but I don't agree or respect some of the things that he's done from a business perspective. And those are the things that I will, when asked, opted or otherwise motivated, you know, react to. So there's no hate here, folks. I've said it a million times that people want to continue harping on that because that's kind of like the dirt sheet, you know, internet wrestling there. Okay, enough of that one. Tony said he's a better owner booker than Ted Turner, but she is. Well, I don't know about that. Turner wasn't a booker. That's true.

Starting point is 00:12:11 Okay, so we've got one kind of obviously true statement there, not much to comment on. But then I go to work, Eric goes to work for Vince McMahon who did the billionaire to this, billionaire TED skits. This is the part where there's a lot of this kind of thinking. In fact, Dax, when we reacted last week, you did the same thing. No knucklehead. I was actually head to head. We were at war. We were in a battle.

Starting point is 00:12:43 Get that graphic back up. We were at war. We were competing and in war and in real competition, not cosplay competition from the sidelines, but in real competition. You're going to have situations where people are lobbing for grenades back and forth. I lobbed him at Vince.

Starting point is 00:13:06 He lobbed him at Ted. That's what made the Monday Night War so much freaking fun. But the component of that battle that is lacking today is real competition. So no, I don't, I don't give quarter to Tony Kahn and the likes of his fan base who argue that because I'm doing something that Tony is doing something that they think, because they don't think through it, something that I did made me a hypocrite. dude he's wanting like a baby from the sidelines that's not competing it's an entirely different scenario if you're not capable digesting that intellectually there's nothing i can say or do that's going to change your life all right tony like eric and wcw gets hate because people on the losing end of the industry say he didn't pay his dues i don't know that there were a lot of people who went

Starting point is 00:13:59 who's that guy why is he getting this job who's he ever beat he doesn't even know how to lace boots Okay, I agree with that. That is true. That's human nature. It's jealousy. It's envy, whatever. It's insecurity. But those same people were oftentimes people that were on top of the industry, not people on the losing end of it. So the premise of the statement is flawed from the get cut. All right. Eric also needs to stop acting like Tony never earned anything. Dude helps run two sports teams and a wrestling company. I'm not going to really get in. to that one too much, but I've done a little research on some of the things that have been going on in the UK with regard to Tony's teams. And I think it might be a leap to suggest that Tony is hands-on.

Starting point is 00:14:52 I don't know. I'll let it go with that. But there's material out there if you want to read about some of the things that people have said about Tony and his association with, you know, football slash soccer over in the UK. It's out there. I don't need interviews with people that work for him and was like, all right. Eric used Ted Turner's money and made crappy Scott Mayo reality shows. Okay, we got three seasons of Scott Mayo, number one, and crappy reality shows go the last three seasons.

Starting point is 00:15:23 So just from a purely, you know, a capitalistic point of view, again, another flawed statement. and a reflection of, you know, ignorance, meaning lack of information and or knowledge. Because in reality, I produced those shows along with Jason Hervey, along after I left Ted Turner and I had nothing to do with Turner broadcasting. That was our money. That was our business. It wasn't funded by anybody else. We put our own money into the pot.

Starting point is 00:15:53 And we went about making all kinds of great television. Great microseech. Profitable television. That was commercially very viable, generated more money. I made more money producing independent television that I ever made in professional wrestling throughout my entire career. So it's another stupid statement that's a reflection on the person who wrote it. But I guess producing Scott Bayo is pregnant, made easy an expert in theory.

Starting point is 00:16:21 I've never claimed to be an expert in literary theory. But here's what the uninformed neophytes, wannabes that have never really been in. industry but yet like to talk about it or analyze it like they have one of the things that I learned in producing reality television non-scriptive television was from the executives that I worked with on the networks that were buying the show who had more experience that I had or Jason had at that point in time in creating non-scripted formats. And when you learn the theory and the formulas that work, consistently work, you have a unique opportunity as I had. And as you have as listeners

Starting point is 00:17:17 to get a glimpse into the world of creating and producing television that can be competitive. I learned a lot about formatting and about conflict and about drama and the balance of it and how to format it and how to create arcs. That's one of the things that I bitch about so often with regard to the quote-unquote storylines that I see sometimes is that there's no structure to it. There's no discipline to it. There's no anything to it. It's just, let me put it this way. I know I'm going off on a TAMJip, but that creative is awesome. Cratimed up, Daddy. Crate them up, man.

Starting point is 00:18:00 I'm on a K ride. When you go to a movie or you watch a television show, I'll ask you, Conrad, but I'm asking the audience. Yeah. Do you go to enjoy 90 minutes or so and study? acting ability of the actors on screen? No. The kind of techniques that they might use. No.

Starting point is 00:18:28 How they use their body language and while they're narrating dialogue. No. Do you go to break down the lighting? No. Do you, what do you, what do you go for? You go for the story. I go for an escape. Yeah.

Starting point is 00:18:42 I want to go on a ride. I want to, I want to get sucked into somebody else's journey. Yes, correct. Because that journey happens to be more interesting or exciting or exhilarating the one than, then you're in. that's why people watch shit that's why people read books

Starting point is 00:18:56 and learning how to create a real story matters if you're going to a movie or you're going to or you're locked into a television series it's story first

Starting point is 00:19:14 everything else second in the minds of a lot of wrestling fans and the Dave Meltzerites out there It's like, oh, no, no, we've got to put the quality of the acting first and then maybe a story. It's like the story is an excuse for the action in the ring, as opposed to the action in the ring being a result of the story. That's the best way I can say it. Difference between Tony Kahn's way of booking and the Dutcheet Internet Wrestling Observer style of booking that Tony employs. And my perspective is that action in the ring should manifest as a result of the story, not vice versa.

Starting point is 00:20:03 And that's it. I mean, that's the best way I can sum it up. So, yeah, my experience producing nonscripted television and studying and working with some of the best producers ever, guys like Tom Beers, It's really, you know, people don't really know Tom well enough, but he's probably produced more top, non-scripted programming than anybody in the history of it. I don't know that as a fact, but I'm pretty sure I might write on that. I've known Tom for 20 years, 25 years for more and have had the good fortune of working with him and developing projects with him as a partner.

Starting point is 00:20:49 And guess what? I'm a fucking sponge in that environment. I'm learning from someone who is way better at that stuff than I am. But what happens is it allows me to have a different perspective on a lot of the stuff that I'm seeing right now. But that perspective was nurtured long after I got out of professional wrestling. but it still applies. So, you know, I do my best, folks.

Starting point is 00:21:19 I do my best. But, hey, I'm going to be honest. I'm not going to put punches. I'm not going to be intentionally mean and meaning to people. But I am going to have fun and I am going to be honest. So strap in or go do some other shit. I don't care. Tom Beers, by the way, if you're wondering, hey, what did that guy ever do?

Starting point is 00:21:41 Well, how about shows like Deadliest Catch, Storage War, ice road truckers on and on and on a television oh how about west coast choppers that's what i mean tom i mean a little bit about tom beers and thank you for bringing that up conrader tom beers i first met tom beers when he was an executive producer i believe at internal broadcasting back when uh turn broadcasting had national geographic tom tom produced a ton of national geographic type content years before you really got into the non-script character-driven stuff, right?

Starting point is 00:22:18 That's why I first met Tom and we stayed friends from that point forward. So it's probably going back 30 years ago. When Tom got, Left Turner started his own production company. He did so much stuff. But the one that really put him on the map in that genre

Starting point is 00:22:33 was West Coast Choppers and Jesse James. Now, a lot of the youngans here listening to the show. There aren't many, but there's probably a few. May not remember West Coast Choppers and what an absolute television phenomenon it became because it was huge.

Starting point is 00:22:50 It was. And this cat, Jesse James, he was just a regular guy working on motorcycles and he made a four, you couldn't go into Walmart and Walmart and not see racks of West Coast Choppers T-shirts. Yes. They probably made more money licensing

Starting point is 00:23:07 and merchandising over a four, four or five-year period than WWE was making during that same time period. It was ridiculous. And Tom built that model. Tom took this guy, making motorcycles, created a format,

Starting point is 00:23:24 learned how to bring out the best in his character, surrounded him with other people to augment his character because he can't all be about one guy, and took us on a journey into a world that most people didn't know existed, or at least were interested in. in one good a phenomenal job a deadliest catch as you put it that show still running he created that probably 12 years ago tons of spinoff from that too he's he he's done so much and for anybody

Starting point is 00:23:54 to suggest that anyone not just me that has an opportunity to work directly with someone like that and learn how to develop nonscriptive learn how to structure story because the same rules that apply non-scripted character-driven television reality shows many of them still apply to wrestling you have to modify it but anyway how are you tom you know what tom's doing right now i don't think i don't think tom has been in the same place for more than 30 days at a time i follow i live vicariously tom he's traveling around the world he's going to the most obscure places that i've never heard of beautiful places and just he's living his life man he had a heart attack about 15 years ago.

Starting point is 00:24:40 I think he made up his mind that he just live his life and he's a great guy, too. He loves wrestling. I think he was originally, I think the first time John Sina ever saw a red light was on a reality show that Tom Beers was working on. He never really produced it, but he was developing it. And I think he shot some stuff with John Sina when John Sina was like greener than goose shit two days into a wrestling school. I've actually seen that episode.

Starting point is 00:25:11 I remember that. But I do want to talk a little bit about pulling back the curtain on the finances of producing reality television. Because we've never really talked about that before. But before we talk about how you made money, I want to talk about how we can save everyone money. I'm talking about rocket money. You and I are big believers in this. I think it's well known that I thought I had a pretty good handle on my finances. I mean, that's what I help people do is get out of debt and all that jazz.

Starting point is 00:25:37 but man i had a blind spot rocket money pointed out to me here's what i mean if i asked you how many subscriptions that you have right now in your household would you be able to list them all and tell me how much money you're paying if you would have asked me this question before rocket money i would have said yes but man i would have been so wrong i can't believe how many i had and all the money that i was wasting rocket money to the rescue man rocket money is a personal finance app that finds and cancels your unwanted subscriptions, they monitor your spending, and they help you lower your bills all in one place. You can see all of your subscriptions in one place and if you see something you don't want or you don't use anymore, you can cancel

Starting point is 00:26:19 it with a tap. It's that simple. You never have to get on the phone with customer service. There's no emailing back and forth. How about this? Rocket Money will even try to get you a refund for the last couple of months of wasted money and then try to negotiate to lower your bills for you up to 20% all you got to do is take a picture of your bill and let rocket money take care of the rest rocket money has over 5 million users and they've saved their members an average of $720 a year we're talking more than half a billion dollars in canceled subscriptions so stop wasting money on things you don't use cancel your unwanted subscriptions by going to rocketmoney.com slash 83 weeks that's rocketmoney.com

Starting point is 00:27:03 dot com slash 83 weeks, rocketmoney.com slash 83 weeks. So, Eric, we talked a little bit about, you know, the inside jab, the tongue in cheek. Oh, Scott Bayow was pregnant in 45 or whatever the shit. But the reality is you've told me off air because I just, I like to learn about other businesses. Hey, how does that business work? And as you explained it to me, when you sell a show, a studio or a production company or whoever the decision maker on the other side who's looking to get this content agrees to like a per episode price and then it's up to you guys to go actually make it happen and when

Starting point is 00:27:45 you told me a number i said so like roughly what would that look like i nearly choked on my water i remember we were in florida talking and i had no idea can you share like as an example what a per episode price order may have been like when you were creating reality tv and someone places an order and says, hey, we want a season of this, whatever that looks like. How does that break down to a per episode investment? Well, first of all, it's changed a lot. Sure. So whatever I share with you today probably isn't nearly applicable.

Starting point is 00:28:21 Right. But, you know, my daughter is a vice president development or very significant television production company that produces nonscriptive programming. So I still, you know, have access to a little bit of information. It just comes up in conversation. But going back, one of the first shows that Jason and I ever sold was to a guy by the name of Dean Valentine. Dean Valentine was the network exec at what was UPN. By the way, when I sold this show to Dean Valentine, to Jason and I, I always say I, but it's weak.

Starting point is 00:28:57 When we sold the show to Dean Valentine, UPN was carrying Smackdown. Right? So they were very active in that 18 to 49 year old audience. They wanted it. We sold that show. And I'll let me, I'd best describe that show without spending on morning doing it. Imagine, if you're really badass monster trucks,

Starting point is 00:29:27 Meets professional wrestling meets motocross. Okay. But it was an arena-based show that would travel. All right. Sold that show for $750,000 an hour. Yep. Yep. And sold, I think it was eight episodes.

Starting point is 00:29:53 And what was interesting is I sold it. he sold on a bar napkin. That's right. Didn't shoot him. Frame of sizzle tape. No demo tapes. No casting tapes. We did put some horsepower into a kind of a physical model of what that arena would look like.

Starting point is 00:30:15 That was it. So that was then. Let me give you another example in that category. Paul Kogan Championship Wrestling on CMT. Yeah. That was another one. $750,000 an episode. My goodness.

Starting point is 00:30:31 Some of the stuff we did on Discovery, we did a couple different series on Discovery. Those were probably in the $500,000 in our category. But we also produced some that were 250, 350. Now, those are on smaller networks that just didn't have the budget, or they didn't include a lot of top heavy talent. The theme of the show is going to be top heavy talent. So I guess this is a great subject to talk about.

Starting point is 00:30:55 But for example, with Hulk Hogan, first of all, you had a pretty big cast. He had Hulk, and he wasn't cheap, right? And then you had, no, these were not like A-list celebrities, but they were still making money. And we had quite a big cast. So you got a lot of talent on the above line, as they say. Below the line, and below the line means all of the things that, from catering to cables, to cameras, to whatever it is you need to actually produce a show. and get it to the network, the editing process, all that stuff. That's considered below the line.

Starting point is 00:31:32 The below the line number on that show was probably about $300,000 an hour if you broke that budget out and looked at, and the top line also includes executive producers, which Jason and I work. That's where our money comes from. But that show probably just the physical cost of production was probably about $350, $400,000 an hour. But we did some that were $250, you know, for smaller networks.

Starting point is 00:32:01 Sure. And here's how it worked for us. This is, and this is one of the reasons why Jason and I really decided to get out of the television business, really about 2014, because those budgets started coming down dramatically. While the networks expected more quality, it's no different. Now, you don't want to spend as much money, but you want to get the same quality. Actually, in a case of television at that point, they wanted better quality for less money because they were getting squeezed. Right.

Starting point is 00:32:32 Because what was going on was streaming, internet advertising, probably more than streaming at that point. Internet advertising was eating away into the traditional television advertising budget. So all of the budgets started coming down. But typically, Jason and I would make as executive producer, we would make 10% of the overall budget. So on Polkoga's Championship Wrestling, for example,

Starting point is 00:32:55 we made $75,000 an episode as executive producers. But since we were producing and we were physically producing the show, all of that below line, all those below line numbers that $350,000 to $400,000

Starting point is 00:33:12 that I just referred to, we also made 10% of that. So we were making money above line. We were making money below line. I say 10%. It was an average of 10%. Sometimes it was more. It was a little less. But the average about 10% of that below line budget. So now do the math. 5% of $700,000 is whatever it is times eight or six or 10 or whatever the episode number is. That's how we were making our money. But when those budgets started getting crushed and the quality of the production in terms of demand from the networks started

Starting point is 00:33:50 increasing. It was like, no, not doing this. The margins are too tight. And I effectively, both Jason and I, it wasn't like we wanted to or we got into an argument or fight about it. And it was just like, fuck, he can make more money doing other stuff. You don't know what the other stuff is yet. We'll figure it out.

Starting point is 00:34:09 But this stuff is no longer working. I just thought it was interesting that what fellow on Facebook thought was like a clown you moment, you know, meanwhile he went to make shows with Scott Bayo. It's like you clearly don't think a lot of Scott Bayo for you to say that. Now let's finish the sentence or let's let's read it from my perspective. Can you believe Eric Bischoff sold the show with freaking Scott Bayo for hundreds of thousands of dollars an episode?

Starting point is 00:34:39 That dude's a hell of a salesman. Like that's my, that's my takeaway. It's not like a negative thing. It's like, this dude can sell Scott Bayo for hundreds of of thousands of dollars years after he's been on TV. That's a compliment boys and girls. It's not a negative. Nick had a comment that was in support on social media.

Starting point is 00:34:58 It wasn't all negative. Loved it. Eric Bischoff in the 83 weeks podcast is a mandatory weekly. Listen for me. Take no shit, Eric. You've earned the right in the business of professional wrestling to tell people what and how you feel. Keep doing what you do.

Starting point is 00:35:13 David had more support. He said FTR made personal comments, which Eric responded really well to. For Tony Kahn, looks like Eric's having a blast answering TK, which proves the point he should stay far away from X. I don't know. I don't know that that's true. Yeah, same. Tony got a lot of support.

Starting point is 00:35:33 Yes, he did. I'm not sure if I was Tony that I'd invest my resources or time. Nash said the same thing on Click This. He said, if I was a billionaire, I wouldn't give a fuck. And he went on to say, I'm not. not a billionaire, and I don't give fun. So I just thought that was fascinating. Kale says FTR are the hugest marks for themselves and don't understand wrestling's real.

Starting point is 00:36:00 Come on, Kale, that's not polite. I disagree with that. What do we do it? The tribalism here's out of whack here, Eric. Yeah, I mean, if you could, I agree with you, Conrader, if someone's going to make a comment like that, give me an example. Right. What, what makes you feel the way you feel?

Starting point is 00:36:18 Help us understand that comment. Otherwise, you're just, you know, you're just slinging mud. That takes absolutely no talent. You know, it's funny because there's so much of this. And I'm going to get off track a little bit here, but Dave Silva will keep up with us. You and I saw and really thought a lot of the promo that Hook did on the street prior to last week's title shot against Samoa Joe. And you broke it down on Strictly Business. I'll give you a chance to talk about what you liked here.

Starting point is 00:36:46 but I knew just from the way it was shot and presented, hey, John Carlo, who is one of the secret sauce guys of all of wrestling as far as video presentation, got together with Hook, who already at a young age understands how to present himself different than. I mean, the Hook presentation from the lighting to the theme song to the trunks he wears, like, I know he's still green, I know he's still learning stuff, I know he's still young, but he's figured out presentation.

Starting point is 00:37:14 and you were really complimentary of that promo. And so when people are quick to say, oh, Eric hates everything AEW, that's not the case. That's not the case at all because not only did you like the promo, you quote tweeted it and told everybody how much you liked it, right? Well, not only did I tell them how much I liked it.

Starting point is 00:37:33 And by the way, I saw that, that vignette, I said on my social media early in the morning. I'd been up for a couple hours, but it was like probably before 8, 30 or 9 o'clock in a month. and I immediately put it over. And then I explained why I put it over.

Starting point is 00:37:49 Yes. Right? So unlike the previous post where the guys you slinging mud and doesn't tell us why he feels the way he feels, I explained in detail. I don't know if Mr. Silva has that and he could pull it up again, but I broke it down as to why I liked it as much as I liked it. And I think, and I'm going off memory here, but I think the tweet was my post.

Starting point is 00:38:12 was there for the grace of God go I, in quotes. Meaning at the end I explained why I referenced that because what Hook did in my opinion created an aspirational character, meaning Hook didn't go out there and say, oh Joe, I'm going to kick your ass, you may be bigger than me, blah, blah, he didn't denigrate his opponent. He went into that promo with the mindset. This is how I felt. I don't know what he was really thinking. I wasn't there.

Starting point is 00:38:43 But this is the feeling, and that's what we're doing these things for. We're trying to create emotion, folks. That's entertainment. Yes. I'll go heads. So what that did is, you know, Hook went out there basically knowing he's going to get his ass kicked. He didn't care.

Starting point is 00:39:09 He had enough confidence in himself. he was coming to the ring he's going to face these insurmountable odds because he believes in himself that's a quality and i broke that doubt i did it in a did it better on my tweet i think but well here's what you wrote there for the grace of god i go hook in his promo is facing seemingly insurmountable odds but he knows it he doesn't care he believes in himself something most want to think about themselves it makes his it makes his character aspirational i dig it. There you go.

Starting point is 00:39:44 Now, that was my honest feeling. At that point, the show hadn't even aired yet. And by the way, I did watch the show and portions of it, large portions of it. But that's all I saw. But I was so impressed with what John Carlos did. Now, I didn't even know it was John Carlos when I saw it. I found that out afterward. But I was so impressed with it because if you want to make a baby face, make an aspirational

Starting point is 00:40:09 character. Yeah. If you want to create a kid. character that's relatable to the audience, give that character qualities and attributes that people like to believe about themselves or wish they had. That's a baby face. That's the magic. And I was so impressed with that.

Starting point is 00:40:32 And my fear, and I didn't even post it because I posted that, I broke it down. Here's why I like it. There for the grace of God, go I aspirational character. I boom, hit post. and I thought, oh, man, I hope this match is consistent with the character that I just saw. Yes. Because if he comes out there and he starts flying around and doing jungle gym shit and, you know, whatever, the more prevalent formula in today's wrestling environment, I'm going to be very disappointed.

Starting point is 00:41:02 He didn't do that. And I wasn't disappointed. No. The story in the match was a reflection of the attitude. and the perspective of the character. I loved it. I thought it was great. And I think that's exactly as Tony is facing down the,

Starting point is 00:41:20 looking down the barrel of a renewal, right? That's the kind of thing. And I said this in social media, not to be a critic, not to be a hater, to point out that Tony should lean into that, whatever it took to get to that vignette and that match,

Starting point is 00:41:40 isolate the people involved, make them raise their hands in the media. Who is involved in the hook promo? Everybody involved. Now, raise your hand. Okay, you guys go over here. All right. Who is involved in laying out that match?

Starting point is 00:41:56 Hook, Joe, given, but who else was, is there an agent involved? Did anybody else have been put into that match? Raise your hand. You two people? All right. You go over there with these guys. These guys are now my head writers.

Starting point is 00:42:08 Right. Get John Carlo, in there because anybody that understands the storytelling of a two-minute promo or whatever that was also understands a story and storytelling technique that needs to be applied to the television show. Get John Carle over there with those guys and listen to them. Maybe not give them the show show because they might not have experience, nor might they even want it. But listen to people like that. Listen to those people.

Starting point is 00:42:36 Allow yourself to be influenced, much like I was by Tom Beers. because they're better at it than you are, Tony. Tom Beers was better at it than I was. Learn from those people. Surround yourself with those people. Give them money. Buy them pizza. Do whatever the fuck you have to do

Starting point is 00:42:54 to keep those people on your team and influencing your show. Because replicating that formula, expanding on that form, so that half the show is dream matches and the other half is actually story-driven in a real sense of the word, not a Dave Meltzer sense of the word story,

Starting point is 00:43:11 but in a real disciplined, structured, storytelling way, let those people have at least half your show. And that might be the right balance. So who's the pressure on tomorrow? I mean, is there really anything that I have to lose? And also, I'm not big enough to compete with Samoa Joe. Hey, but I am getting some calories right now, Who knows?

Starting point is 00:43:42 Then again, who the fuck am I anyway? 24 hours, Joe, coming for that world title. What I really enjoyed about the promo was the inside baseball reference, that if you knew, you knew. We weren't hitting you over the head with it. But of course, as everyone recalls from the week prior, Your interaction with Tony Kahn led to criticism about Tony Kahn calling out the backlash, if you will, or the upheaval about hook getting a title shot when Ginder had.

Starting point is 00:44:22 And then Ginder got involved and said, what T.F. is a hook or who T.F. is the hook. That's what it is. Who T.F. is the hook? Well, he managed to work it in there. Who the fuck am I anyway? in the promo nice little callback it felt very ECW and what I mean with that Eric is a lot of times my favorite part of the old ECW TV program were produced like this outside on a street it felt very guerrilla style not very scripted very gritty it had that vibe to me I just think hook's presentation has been really cool because it's been different and I love that video and I love that you put it over. And I find it interesting that there's so much negative criticism about you being

Starting point is 00:45:15 vocal about the parts of AEW that you're not a fan of. But there are parts that you do like. It's right there for everyone to see. They just choose not to. But you actually chose to tune into the match. And I'm curious what you thought because Samoa Joe at this point is at the top of his game. He's been a world champ in TNA and been a world champ in Ring of honor and now he's a world champ

Starting point is 00:45:39 here for AEW and I felt like it was a fantastic performance by both guys. There's an old cliche in wrestling I've heard a bunch. It's not who goes over. It's who gets over. I felt like we checked all the boxes. What'd you think?

Starting point is 00:45:55 I think Ginger Mahal knows who the fuck hook is now. Yes, he does. I think he knew all along. He was having fun. Come on. Yeah, but that aside. then Hook rubbed his nose in it. How's that? Yeah, there you go.

Starting point is 00:46:10 I like that. Hook hasn't gotten a lot of exposure. No. I don't even know how long he's been around, a couple years. Yeah. But there's a lot of talent in AEW that we haven't seen yet or seen much of. So it's easy to just kind of dismiss them. I think that promo is why I think Hook should take John Carlo out to dinner.

Starting point is 00:46:33 I think they're friends in real life if I had to get. Every Friday night for the rest of his life or at least the rest of his career because that promo got him over, got him over with me for sure. Not that that matters, but I think generally people went, wow, I dig that, right? Got him over. And then Joe, I think Joe did a phenomenal job. Yes. Getting hook over.

Starting point is 00:46:59 Now, you've got some, I can't believe he kicked out. They let him kick out of this. Okay. Now you're going into, you know, the, the Meltzer Rabbit Hole. Did the match create emotion? Yes. Like, yeah.

Starting point is 00:47:11 Did the crowd enjoy that match because it created emotion? Like, yeah. Yeah. Did the match, was the match well received on television for the very same reasons? Yeah. So, again, are you going to the movie to critique the actor's performance? Or you're going to the movie to enjoy the story? I enjoy the story and I think, I think,

Starting point is 00:47:35 Joe is such a, first of all, he's cool as shit. Have you ever spent any time around Joe? Just a little bit, not very much. Dude is so understated cool. Like when you look at Joe, he's a scary fuck to look at. I mean, you see him in person. He's big on television. Stand next to him.

Starting point is 00:47:55 Well, not for you, but for me, I'm 5, 10, 200 pounds. Yeah, he's a big boy. Oh, shit, he's big. I'm an average size person. Yeah. He's fucking huge. And when he's not smiling, like he's getting a little grin on his face if you're watching with us on YouTube. And if you're not, you're missing the boat or if you're not on ad-free shows, watching this live, you're missing your freaking boat, folks.

Starting point is 00:48:17 God, I love this carnivore. The carnivore diet is awesome, too. But Joe is intimidating as fuck. What's cool about Joe is in real life, it's just as chill. You'd think he was like a professional surfer. And he's just got this tax chill. vibe to him? No, you know he could kill you. But damn, he's a cool cat. And I think that that, I see it reflected in some of his social media stuff. Joe's cool. And I, I would love

Starting point is 00:48:50 nothing more than to see Joe be able to bring us his best word. Let's talk about that. What's best work? I'm not talking about flying around the frickin' ring. Let's talk about A.J. Stiles as an example of best work. Is AJ Stiles the athlete physically that he was 10 or 15 years ago? Probably not. Nobody is. Looks better. But in terms of being able to move and fly and do crazy shit,

Starting point is 00:49:19 yeah, probably not because that stuff, you know, it's death by a thousand cuts. It wears you down. But I think A.J. Stiles is in a position to do his best work ever because he understands character, understand story is to learn the nuance of bringing the audience into your character or into his character or into his story, which in my opinion makes him a better performer than he was 20 years ago without respect to any of the physicality. Joe has that same opportunity. I think Joe is better now than he's ever been as a character and as a well-rounded performance. So I'd love nothing

Starting point is 00:50:01 better to see Joe go on a long, fast, fun ride. And I'm pulling for Hook. You know, we should mention he had his first match in December of 2021. So he is just a couple years into the game at this point. He's had a whopping 48 matches. And I think everybody is familiar with Hook now. And I'm pulling for him, man. There's a lot of great talent over NAEW, but not everybody is.

Starting point is 00:50:31 thrilled that we're talking about AEW. Some more feedback from our Facebook page. Here's a comment from Michael Watkins the second. He says, I'm a huge fan of the show, but I'm tired of how much focus is put on AEW good or bad. Sorry to hear that, Michael. We're trying to draw some similarities

Starting point is 00:50:49 and some comparisons between the things Eric has learned in business and making them relevant with what we're doing today, but we're still going to hit you with some nostalgia too. Let's take a look at it. And I also want to say, I don't disagree. Sometimes I get a little nervous that we're spending too much time talking about one thing or another, not just AEW.

Starting point is 00:51:08 But here's what I hope the audience understands is that I want this show to be around for a long time. And I wanted to serve a good, aside from entertaining our audience, I wanted to provide perspective that may or may not become valuable. I enjoy doing it, right? But we have to mix it up. Yes. We have to change our format from time to time. It doesn't mean every episode we're going to be talking about this type of thing. Right.

Starting point is 00:51:36 We've got to kind of mix it up a little bit. So if you're disappointed in the show because we're talking about one subject too much, whether it's AEW or anything else, you know, be patient because we're trying to, you know, appeal to as many people as we can, but also provide some granularity and detail and specificity would get into the weeds about certain topics. And if AEW is controversial, no, it is what it is. If something is going on in WWE that becomes newsworthy and controversial, here it comes.

Starting point is 00:52:04 We'll do that too. But right now, you know, go through social media. Yeah. Topic du jour when it comes to what's going to happen next is AEW. Let's look at a little more feedback from the YouTube communities page. Matt Gibson says, guys, facts are facts. When Eric ran WCW, they beat WWE, the big dog, AEW will never see that. Thank you, Eric.

Starting point is 00:52:27 Another comment from Ryan Tanner says regarding the Dax stuff Dax likes TK obviously and the difference between Bischoff and the other podcasters quote unquote is that even though they criticize AEW constantly they have up till now anyway

Starting point is 00:52:42 been rooting for the company and for Tony Kahn they just expect things to be run differently regarding the command structure and which TK would hire a proper booker they've said repeatedly they think he's a good guy Bischoff just said he's grateful not to be working for a guy like Tony Conn, and Dax probably takes that hard.

Starting point is 00:53:02 I think most people in the wrestling space, I'm not speaking for other podcasters, but I know that there are a lot of conversations that happen about what should or shouldn't be happening in AEW. In the end, it is Tony Kahn's company. It's his money. It's his investment. He'll do what he pleases. But the narrative that you're doing anything other than pulling for

Starting point is 00:53:26 their success is just misplaced, I think, Eric. People are sensitive and they don't think. Now, the critical thinking is kind of, it's history in a lot of respects, particularly in social media. And if you really listen to what I have to say, and unless I'm not encouraging people, spend more time listening to me, I sometimes get sick of hearing the sound of my own voice, but my criticisms, my critiques, my explanations for my reactions for my reactions, to think good and bad are there for everybody to see it's not emotion no hate there's no jealousy

Starting point is 00:54:04 no resentment there is a lack of respect and an honest opinion yeah now sometimes my opinion gets to be colorful but it's just who i am it's not it's not coming from the place of wishing anybody would why would i wish he fails i got no dog in the hunt as they say the exact opposite it's true. Anybody, anybody that knows me knows if there's anything that I'll react to emotionally is seeing someone blow opportunities. There's opportunities that, as I've said a million times on the show, are so hard to come by, real opportunities. And to not maximize those opportunities or to blow them, it hurts. It just hurts. It's almost physically painful when I see it happening.

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Starting point is 00:57:28 So Eric, we got some other feedback I want to run through here over on our YouTube communities page, which is easy to find. Look for 83 weeks on YouTube.com. Sal says, Eric and Conrad let the facts speak for themselves. Last year, Dax is praising your podcast. And now all of a sudden, he takes a shot at you in a very low level.

Starting point is 00:57:51 And why? Just because Eric is pointing out the obvious about AEW and Tony Kahn. Jay says that was a great response. People like FTR who want to credit Eric for his contributions to wrestling need to get a clue because he's the only one who legitimately went head to head with WWE. I'm not against other companies being out there for people to work at, but it's proven Tony Kahn doesn't know what he's doing. Okay, well, we're taking personal shots.

Starting point is 00:58:16 I don't think we need to feed up on everybody else for us to just say, say, hey, we like Eric's opinion and we support Eric. Chintz McMahon says, Bischoff already went through the experience of having bosses who wouldn't listen with Dixie and Bob Carter during his consultant phase at TNA. There's no reason to go through that kind of frustration all over again with Tony Kahn.

Starting point is 00:58:39 I think that's probably, that was probably in response to someone thinking that the only reason I'm critical is because I'm unhappy that I didn't get a job and need it. I am I am so grateful that I was never given that opportunity. Because early on, early on, I may have been interesting because I was so excited about what I saw early on, very late 2019, early 2000 or 2020. Again, it wasn't until afterwards that I began to go, because here's what would have happened. if I would have taken the job as head of catering,

Starting point is 00:59:21 which I would have been overly qualified for, but properly incentivized, I may have taken that job just to be around the business and whatever. Keep my port in the wrestling door some way. But even if I was the head of catering, I would be being blamed for a lot of the shit that you're seeing now. yeah there he is again look at first of all you know going back to tina i didn't run tna no and and the guy who posted that recognized that was a consultant i didn't want to run tn a

Starting point is 00:59:57 i didn't want to be in the office i explicitly in my contract made it clear that i didn't want anything to have to do with operational responsibilities than tn a but yet i drove them into first of all they didn't go bankrupt but Apparently, people think they did. They're still going. And it's my fault. It's my fault that they went into bankruptcy, which they didn't do because I would hear. So no, when I say, I thank God I'm not in AEW.

Starting point is 01:00:33 I mean, I thank God, the son Lord Jesus Christ, that I am not affiliated in any way with that. Because all of the. negative things are many of them that are going on right now that be my bad and i don't need it i don't want it i don't need the money that bad i'm good right where i'm at another comment from at do at d t or i'll get it right at d2k prime this is from our youtube i like this do not correct a fool or he will hate you correct a wise man and he will appreciate you Apparently, that's a quote from Bruce Lee. I like that, man.

Starting point is 01:01:19 Do not correct the fool or he will hate you. Here's a little bit of Bruce Lee slash Eric Bischoff trivia. Never thought you'd hear's that coming out of me, did you? No. Do you know that I can't remember the year, but Ishi Kanjo, who is the head of K-1, asked me to come over to Tokyo to do play-by-play for a K-1 event, which I did. Great time to do.

Starting point is 01:01:54 You know who my color commentator was? Bruce Lee's daughter. How about that? I didn't know that. Yep. It's a fact. She was a lovely person. Really, really nice one.

Starting point is 01:02:09 Didn't get to, you know, socialize with her after the show or anything. But, you know, worked with her. pre-production and had a blast working with her and probably spent a little bit of time chatting with her after the show and all that, but never really got to know her. But I, you know, that was kind of a cool thing for me. I grew up watching Cato on the Green Hornet. It's awesome. Man, you brought up Cato. I should bring this up. It came out since you and I recorded most recently that Okada has put in notice. He will not be renewing his contract with New Japan. And this follows a long trend of a lot of people leaving New Japan.

Starting point is 01:02:46 Like a decade ago, it was the Good Brothers and Shinskay Nakamura and Finn Baller and A.J. Stiles. And then there was the wave for AEW that followed. So Hangman and Cody and Kenny Omega and the Young Bucks.

Starting point is 01:03:03 And now more recently, Will Osprey's out, Jay White's out, now Okada's out. And a lot of people are wondering, what's next? I guess it's been broken down or tried to be explained to me

Starting point is 01:03:18 that Tony Kahn, for one, would not require Okada to relocate to the United States like WW would. And he does have an existing relationship there. He's been to AEW shows. He's wrestled on AEW shows. He's apparently friendly with the Young Bucks

Starting point is 01:03:37 and has been for many years since their time together in T&A. And I guess he's become pretty good friends with Brian Danielson after they've had a couple of matches together. But a lot of people feel like it's been communicated somehow, some way, that Okada, who I first met backstage at SummerSlam in New York, like eight years ago, nine years ago, it's been said that he really wants to compete at a WrestleMania during his career. So Okada seems to be the next big sort of free agent signing.

Starting point is 01:04:11 What do you think? Where would you expect Okada to show up? WWE or AEW. I have no idea. Unless you really understand someone's motivation, true motivation, not social media motivation, because that can also be kind of positioning and negotiating, right? Sure.

Starting point is 01:04:32 I don't know. Look, if the cat doesn't want to leave Japan and wants to commute, it's going to make weekly television really difficult. If he's not going to be able to make weekly television, then he's not going to be involved in any kind of a well-structured story arc. So I don't know that it makes sense for someone who doesn't want to leave Japan but wants to work in the United States for a company that produces weekly television. We don't know that he won't move.

Starting point is 01:05:03 No, no, I say that, but let me, I apologize. If it is true. Yeah, right. That he prefers to stay in Japan. then I think AEW is his only option. That's right. If he wants to wrestle in WrestleMania and doesn't want to leave Japan,

Starting point is 01:05:24 I say I have about as much chance of headlining WrestleMania. You're not going to be able to get to that level if you're not a part of the story, the programming, not being built and elevated. you're not going to come into WWE based on your success in New Japan Pro Wrestling and what they've seen of you and be thrust into a position like that. It's a commitment. It's a long-term commitment.

Starting point is 01:05:55 So based on what I've heard, because I know nothing, probably is going to end up in AEW. Because jumping into the grind in WWE, if you don't really, want to move to the United States. Imagine it. We'll see, though. I don't know. I don't know the guy.

Starting point is 01:06:18 I was talking to a close friend of mine yesterday who is tangentially acquainted. And whatever decision anybody makes about where they're going or what they're doing, I would want to look at the long-term stability of the company I'm considering going to as part of my decision-making process. And making sure that if I'm going into a situation that is, questionable, which, look, this is not a criticism, folks, it's a reality. AEW is in the renewal process, or, well, it's called, I don't know if they're in the process or not, they're in that renewal season. Yes, there you go.

Starting point is 01:06:57 Their relationship. If I'm a top talent and I'm looking at two different opportunities, one of the things on my list of things to consider would be the long-term viability. of the company. And with the question mark hanging over AEW and Turner right now in terms of renewal, or I should say WBD, Warner Brothers Discovery, I would have a conversation with, you know, my management or somebody that I trusted to really give an honest opinion of that. Because it's a factor.

Starting point is 01:07:31 Should be. I want to do a little bit more feedback from last week's show. then we'll move on. I, uh, we got lots of people who were in big support guys like Carver City 96. He says, what about the fans who criticize at EW? Do they all want jobs to?

Starting point is 01:07:54 Jester said, Eric Bischoff, one of the truly underrated promo guys in the history of the business. Eric has a unique and creative way of telling someone they're a piece of shit. I mean, I feel like, you know, Blood Eagle says they need to listen to Eric because he did the right things in wrestling

Starting point is 01:08:14 and he did the wrong things in wrestling. He's trying to warn them not to do the things he did. And that is a positive that people are making a lot of money. Some people don't deserve or need to make a lot of money. And they don't need to take up space in the wrestling world. here's a comment that was critical about something I said that Cooraz

Starting point is 01:08:40 screwing that up over on YouTube says the problem Conrad is that we're seeing the benefits now but if it's mismanaged it may be a net negative to the long-term health of the wrestling business as usually when the business contracts it contracts across the board meaning less jobs for everyone in every company

Starting point is 01:08:59 less wrestlers, less pay, less everything. So AEW somehow screwing the pooch affects more than their own company. Well, I hear you, but I'm saying I guess my point has always been Tony Con created these opportunities for other people to have jobs in wrestling out of his own pocket.

Starting point is 01:09:18 He wasn't doing it with profits from the wrestling industry. So he's added jobs to his own personal, I mean, it's his, it's his, money. So every dollar he gives away, I don't say how that's lost on people. I don't, I don't think it can be debated that AEW is a net positive for the wrestling business.

Starting point is 01:09:40 Deception Hunter says the existence of AEW can only be looked at as a positive through the lens of providing people with jobs and very good pay and that's where it ends. However, Conrad is 100% deluding himself for thinking that AEW being on TV somehow makes it WWE's competitor. It doesn't.

Starting point is 01:09:55 It also doesn't make the existence of AEW net positive when Tony Kahn thinks there are no problems with the way he runs it. T&A is arguably a much better product and I can't watch it on TV. Well, I think you can watch it on TV. You just don't have the right provider. But I think T&A is a net positive on wrestling.

Starting point is 01:10:14 But I think that same thing is true about MLW, about GCW, about GCPW, about New Japan, about AAA, about AEW. They're all competing for talent, which raises the pay scale for the talent. That's a good thing for the industry. Am I wrong in saying that, Eric? You know what, though?

Starting point is 01:10:31 I'm going to disagree with you, Conrad. Okay. And it's semantics to a degree. But I think Tony Kahn providing jobs, great money and great salaries and great opportunities, not just for the wrestling talent, but for people like Jean-Carlo and people that we both know who are behind the scenes in the industry and working in production and other areas of AEW. Those people all have jobs. in its Tony Kahn's initiative certainly benefits those individuals,

Starting point is 01:11:05 but it doesn't affect the business. The business is elevated and grows and benefits from a higher tide. Higher tide means more viewers, more advertisers willing to jump on board, more sponsors willing to get involved, more cities willing to spend money to bring wrestling in, more mainstream media covering what was once a genre that most mainstream media would have been embarrassed to talk about, even during my career, that was the case.

Starting point is 01:11:39 And when a company, whether it's AWT and AWWE or whomever, does things to elevate the energy and the interest in a real way, that's what benefits the business. Let's talk for a second about what doesn't benefit the business. business. What doesn't benefit the business is doing, presenting things on television that are likely going to turn advertisers away from professional wrestling or to, or to augment the pre-existing perception that wrestling is lowbrow entertainment. And it's nothing but blood and gore and violence, all of the stigma, unfortunately for me, while Tony Khan has been providing great income and great opportunities for people, some of whom are friends of ours, and I'm happy

Starting point is 01:12:39 for them individually, it doesn't necessarily mean he's contributing to the health of the business. I posit that he's actually hurting the business with some of the things he's done so far. The chaos backstage, the drama with Pog, oh, I was afraid for my life. No, AEW is the safest place on the planet. It's kind of like Disney World. No, no, that stuff is bad. That feeds into the negative perception and stereotypes and stigma that already exists. The whole pizza cutter, blood, the violence, the excessive reliance upon blood as a dramatic storytelling device is the kind of thing that turns

Starting point is 01:13:23 off advertisers or studio heads or other people that some other Tony Con down the road may have a billion dollars and want to start a wrestling company. But we've seen that, we've seen, unfortunately, from AEW how that works. So I think people need to be careful about distinguishing benefits of the individuals from benefits of the business. Let's do a few more here and then we'll put a button on the feedback. I got some stuff I want to ask you about in the foreseeable future because we've got some really big stuff coming down the pike that I want us to talk about.

Starting point is 01:14:10 But one of the things we talked about last week was maybe a little fantasy booking. Dale Magnus took umbrage with something we said. No, not the Rock, a.k.a. the biggest star on the planet. Let's go with Cody. That's truly some delusional Mark BS. I would expect that from AEW, but not WW. I don't understand

Starting point is 01:14:35 how our statements were sort of misconstrued. Tickets are sold out or almost sold out for both nights of WrestleMania. They're not offering it on pay-per-view. It's on Peacock. would you imagine the rock would wrestle at WrestleMania for free Eric? So I'm just saying by that line of thinking

Starting point is 01:15:03 he's going to be a line item expense probably the largest one at WrestleMania and where do you get a return on that if you have him wrestle at WrestleMania Eric? I would argue I don't see how you you'd have to say, you know what? We're going to turn our biggest show of the year.

Starting point is 01:15:24 We're not going to make money on it. We're going to try to break even. What? Like, that doesn't make any sense to me. I can't wrap my head around it. It seems like to me, if you're getting paid to bring a live event, a premium live event to another continent, and they're going to cut you a deal,

Starting point is 01:15:45 and there'll be some tax incentives, and maybe there's, you know, know, you don't have to pay for the building and maybe they're kicking in some trans and maybe they're just paying you to come or whatever those terms of those deals that Nick Con are shaken loose of who I think it's well documented is pretty good friends with the rock. It seems like that is a more prudent way to approach the business as opposed to saying, let's put him on this show where we don't need him and we can't get any more value out of it. I don't follow it at all. Well, it's because you think in three

Starting point is 01:16:17 dimensions. Think about the business perspective, not just what you want to see emotionally on television. Right. Right. So when you, when you get past, oh, what's the coolest thing on TV? Because of rock at WrestleMania? Great. Sounds exciting as hell. But when you break it down and start thinking it from your perspective, looking at that picture in a three-dimensional way, as opposed to a one-dimensional way, it's where do you get the largest return on investment? What's best long-term for the company? Let's just argue for a second.

Starting point is 01:16:55 Rock's the biggest star in the world. He should be headlining in WrestleMania. Okay, there's some, I guess, truth to that in one respect. But what does that do for Cody? What does that do for Roman? What does that do for WWE storytelling going forward after WrestleMania? He was a rock on a roster. If he is, great.

Starting point is 01:17:17 But if he's not, he's an attraction. And you need to be, he should be, in my opinion, he should be used as an attraction and leverage to open up new markets or create new opportunities or enhance a tactic or strategy. That's how you get the biggest return on investment for the biggest star in the world, not approaching it from a one-dimensional attack. Yeah, I just think you've got to look at, hey, what is, what's the effect on business here?

Starting point is 01:17:52 And I think WrestleMania is going to be a high watermark for WWE with or without the rock. Like it is going to do gangbuster business with or without. But meanwhile, you can give so much value to one of these other shows. I mean, I don't think there's a way for us to bet on it. But I'm thankful that there is a way. for us to bet on these playoffs. I'm having so much fun with prize picks. Prize picks is the most fun I've had winning up to 25 times my money this football season.

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Starting point is 01:21:36 we got a lot of feedback from last week's show people were still fired up about it but I do want to talk a little bit about what's coming this weekend because we are right around the corner from what I think is one of the tent pole events and all of wrestling the Royal Rumble and back as far as I can remember this has been one of my favorite paper views and we all remind each other of this every year it's worth reminding everybody right now a Paterson creation he took what was old and stale and not very good a battle royal. As a kid

Starting point is 01:22:13 and on a poster it made a lot of sense and it was easy to get excited about hey instead of one on one or a tag team match with four guys in a match what if they were 20 what if there were 30 but then you actually see it and you realize well they're not allowed to do anything except lean on the ropes and throw forearms and punches and chops and tease picking a leg up like once you've seen one battle royal you've sort of seen them all but in typical eric bischaw fashion i wanted to

Starting point is 01:22:44 give you a minute to just talk about the royal rumble because one of the things you laid out when you were first getting ready to launch nitro is the data that you had gotten from this study that what wrestling fans wanted to be what they got excited about maybe more than anything else was the surprise element and the idea that the royal rumble basically took an old tired kind of a waste of time match on a wrestling card that was almost a value add. You know, they'd have some matches listed on the poster plus this big battle royal,

Starting point is 01:23:22 but it wasn't very fun. But we added some anticipation. We added some surprise. And man, this is like the match that everybody keeps coming back to. I think they get tired of the elimination chamber. I think they get tired of hell in the cell. I think we can get tired of a ladder match or scared of a ladder match because of the perceived injury, the money in the banks and things like that.

Starting point is 01:23:45 But a Royal Rumble, just a tiny little twist. And it's a whole fresh paint of coat, as Bruce would say. It's fascinating. Yeah. It is my favorite pay-per-view, really. I mean, I love the spectacle of WrestleMania. I just, I will always be amazed. Every time I see one, just how big the,

Starting point is 01:24:06 industry has become. Yeah. And I love that. That's my, that's my thing. But Royal Rumble is really, I think, the most interesting pay-per-view of the year because historically, the Royal Rumble and the outcome, the stakes, go again, a storytelling must have, the stakes are there. How many times have we seen the outcome of the Royal Rumble pretty much set the direction

Starting point is 01:24:34 going forward. Right. L and 2.1. It's a big move. It is. Storyline-wise. Everyone. It's a big move, right?

Starting point is 01:24:43 So what do we have as a result? We have anticipation. You've got story. You've got anticipation. We've got reality. The reality is the authenticity of format in this case. It's something everybody knows. It's organic.

Starting point is 01:24:59 It's unique to WWE. So you can check the reality box with. regard to, to the format and just the basic premise of it all. Sorry, anticipation, reality. Surprise, boom. There you go. That's, that's a biggie. That's like, of the five elements, that's the one that really matters the most.

Starting point is 01:25:21 I would say surprise and anticipation are the two that are almost like milk and cookies and they go together, but if there, any action is the action, it's self-fulfilling as a result of what it is. So it's a perfect Sarsa formula, controversy equation, call it whatever you want. But it's the reason why, it's the reason why the Royal Rumble, Paterson's creation, one little tweak, as you pointed out, and it's in a class all of its own as far as paper. It's really amazing. And we've got a lot of stories going into this year's, as we're recording,

Starting point is 01:25:58 there's only been a handful of folks who've been announced for the women's battle royal, the women's royal rumble match. Bailey has announced that she's in. Nia Jacks has announced that she's in. Becky Lynch has announced that she's in. Bianca Bel Air's in. Maxine Dupree is in.

Starting point is 01:26:18 And I'm sure we'll see more and more announced as Raw and Smackdown come to fruition this week, of course, tonight and this Friday. On the women's side, can you call it? Do you have a prediction for who might get their hand raised and move on to the next step? No, don't. I don't follow VWE consistently enough to have a feel for anything. So no, I don't.

Starting point is 01:26:42 I should, but I don't. Over on the men's side, we've got Tazawa, Otis, Chad Gamble, Gunther, Drew McIntyre, Bobby Lashley, Shinskay, Nakamura, and who most people assume it's going to come down to Cody Rhodes and C and Punk now of course I don't have any inside knowledge you and I don't really do that but it does feel like

Starting point is 01:27:09 if I were booking the Rumble and I got down to the final four I might want to have Cody Rhodes and C and Punk in that final four there's always a big emphasis on the final four I feel like you got to have them in there let's say you I agree.

Starting point is 01:27:28 I think punk needs to be. Cody's already, Cody's a maid man, right? Yeah. We don't know what the, ultimately, how the story is going to end, but he's a made man.

Starting point is 01:27:38 Punk came in, a lot of hoopla, great reaction from the audience. Not really involved in anything meaningful right now, is he? I mean, he's there. I think a lot of people are waiting to see what happens with him and Seth Rawlins.

Starting point is 01:27:54 Of course, Seth Rollins hurt his knee in the main event. Yeah, the injury certainly through a wrenching. But now the debate is, will he be back in time for WrestleMania? I mean, you could see it was all over his face at the end of the show. That's what he was thinking about too. I got to get to WrestleMania.

Starting point is 01:28:11 It does feel like the rumor innuendo was that it was going to be punk and Seth Rollins perhaps main eventing night one. I mean, I've heard people talk about that as if it were a foregone conclusion. Well, that makes you wonder, two big paper views to get before we get there.

Starting point is 01:28:28 The Royal Rumble this weekend and the Elimination Chamber down in Perth, Australia next month, we're going to figure out who goes where. Once upon a time, if you go back in time to the 1997 Royal Rumble in San Antonio, Steve Austin was thrown out, but then he snuck back in because none of the referees saw it, and he managed to win the thing. So what they did to sort of write the ship as they did in-your-house final four in February in Chattanooga with the idea being the winner as we do a rematch this four-way match would go on to get that title shot against Sean Michaels of course in the

Starting point is 01:29:06 meantime Sean lost his smile and whoever won that match was going to be the champion so I think they've got some decisions to make and all of a sudden I think what happens this weekend got a little more interesting because what if they do decide we're going to take the belt off of and we're going to do something at elimination chamber and whoever wins that is the champ it's going to be interesting to see how they get there but you see drew he's out here calling out see and punk every chance he gets so it feels like if I but dude and isn't Drew's uh contractual status kind of open here a little bit I don't we know I don't believe so I don't think so no I don't know that to be true but I don't believe that there's a

Starting point is 01:29:50 concerned that the Drew's not sticking. Where would he go? Well, I'm just saying if I was through, I'd be happy. WWE. I would too. He's an amazing character. And he's been, you know, it's kind of like he's been, you know, the team of the show is going to be top heavy,

Starting point is 01:30:11 you know, top heavy top talent, so to speak. Drew's one of those guys that is a top, top, top talent. There's potential there. I know. He got his run as champion. During COVID, he's still, in my opinion, an untapped potential. I don't think we've seen the best. But he's been kind of, I mean, he's there.

Starting point is 01:30:32 He's in the mix, but he's kind of off to the side a little bit. That's a great opportunity to bring somebody, to bring a sleeper, bring a sleeper, fire him back up, get him back into the top of the ticket, so to speak. It's fun. That's what's fun about the Royal Royal Royal. You know, I was driving around yesterday because there was two football games on yesterday, right? And I love listening to CBS sports, especially this time of year, because I really appreciate the way radio analysts entertain their audience versus television analysts, the way they entertain their audience. And it occurred to me, again, I'm going to go back to story here, but it's relative to what we're talking about.

Starting point is 01:31:16 The game is the game. But what drives interest in the game in a large part is the just plethora of conversation between ESPN and all the CBS sports and all the other talking heads. And they're all talking about the story behind the teams or the story behind the players. And here you've got Royal Rumble, which provides so many opportunities because the outcome, as we talked about earlier, kind of creates a, uh, a trajectory for the winner, more often than not. So there's all this chatter about Royal Rumble, which in some respects, I think, makes it better environment than even WrestleMania.

Starting point is 01:32:03 WrestleMania is a spectacle, but people talking about the outcome and discussing the potential matchups and discussing where guys could go or women could go or not go, all based around the Royal Rumble, kind of elevates it to a status, all of its own in that regard as well. We should talk about the rest of the Rumble card, but before we do, I just want to let

Starting point is 01:32:29 everybody know that I think one of the reasons we all love the Royal Rumble is the nostalgia. Because when we were a kid, and I remember really believing this, anybody could win the Royal Rumble. I was friends with little kids in my neighborhood who liked wrestling, and they were convinced one of the Bushwhackers were going to win the Royal Rumble. now of course as an adult i wouldn't be so silly to think that but man back then that's when uh man we really loved wrestling and we really loved eating cereal first thing in the morning watching old episodes of superstars or the syndicated show and you can relive that nostalgia

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Starting point is 01:36:19 Let's see what happens. Speaking of four, there is a fatal four-way match with Roman putting both of his titles on the line. Against Randy Orton, against A.J. Stiles, and against L.A. 9. You want to talk about putting everything into a tailspin. Holy smokes. Right? What if? Holy smoke.

Starting point is 01:36:40 I'm not saying it happens, but what if? Because when you take a look at that, you realize technically Roman could lose the belts without being pinned. And now there's a whole new conversation. I don't think that's going to happen. Oh my gosh. Is that interesting? Let's take a look at that graphic again, Silva.

Starting point is 01:37:02 As you take a look at this, Eric, you got a jacked AJ Styles who looks better than ever. He looks like a real life action figure. He's huge. So is Randy Orton. They've both been on that WrestleMania diet, looking better than ever. And here's LA Knight, who's just, you know, hotter than baking grease, as they say in the South. Taking on Roman Raines, who's got this incredible run and incredible presentation.

Starting point is 01:37:28 It's a fatal four way. What do you think? Wow. Wow. That I'm interested in. And again, I'll be interested in. the match and the physicality within a match because all of these guys are phenomenal. It's going to be really fun aesthetically to watch.

Starting point is 01:37:51 But strategically, that's what I'm most fascinated. Not what happens, where it goes. That's awesome, awesome, awesome. Talk about a myriad of opportunities with no bad answer. let's do this. Okay. That'll work great. No,

Starting point is 01:38:14 let's do this. That'll work great too. I've got an idea. Let's do that. That'll work great. I mean, man, if you're on that creative team,

Starting point is 01:38:23 you're loving the challenge of figuring out what's the best solution. That's awesome. It makes you wonder with the elimination chamber around the corner, do they use some shady shenanigans? to take that match and add to it. Now, there have been reports. Who knows what's real and what's not? But Dave Meltzer's been pretty adamant

Starting point is 01:38:51 that Roman Reins is not going to Perth, Australia. But at the same time, I say all that to say, that he also recently wasn't convinced that Sasha Banks was going to AEW and says she could show up in the Royal Rumble. Sean Rossap was adamant. No chance. shows up at the Rumble.

Starting point is 01:39:12 John is convinced she's going to AEW. Can you imagine WWE trying to sell this big monster pay-per-view like the elimination chamber and allegedly double down on their international growth? And they don't take Roman reigns? That feels like that would be

Starting point is 01:39:32 difficult for me to buy into it. Does the shit saying give any reason why he doesn't think he's going or is he being I think he's just heard that he's not there I mean I think rumor has it that's what Dave believes yes okay well who knows I don't know I don't get bogged down

Starting point is 01:39:56 and shit that Dave Meltzer says or anybody else says what would you do with this with four way then this Sunday this Saturday rather what would you do LA night Randy Orton AJ Styles Roman I mean it's it all comes out to from a business perspective, who do they want to elevate? Right. Who's going to, who they want to take a step up?

Starting point is 01:40:18 Arguably, I would look at, for a discussion, I would say L.A. Knight, come from out of nowhere. He's, his, his star is ascending, he hasn't reached peak, certainly hasn't gone over peak. He's making forward progress. Fast. So there's an argument for that discussion. I think AJ Stiles has been a sleeper that can over deliver an argument there too. Randy, as much as I love character that Randy brings to the table, as much as I absolutely think he is the hottest performer in the last 20 years, certainly as a heel. I'm less inclined to think that that's the direction they would go.

Starting point is 01:41:17 I don't know. And I love your scenario. Imagine Roman Rain is getting beat, but he losing his titles, but he never got pinned. There's a premise for you. Well, I just think you could.

Starting point is 01:41:31 There's about six months of television waiting to happen. It would be interesting. you know, Smackdown went off the air this past Friday with an RKO on Roman Ring. It would be interesting to think about, because just last week, we were talking about how you sort of threw out there that AI could actually help with wrestling creative. And the guys over at the Ringer put together what we agreed was a pretty cool storyline between Cody and Randy. I could totally see that at one of the nights at WrestleMania. That storyline. By the way, I wish we could play that here.

Starting point is 01:42:09 Maybe we will next week because this whole AI thing is probably going to come up again. But the story that AI platform, whichever one they used, kicked out, was really pretty freaking interesting. I agree. And would provide a great premise. And I would have never even considered Cody and Randy until we heard that on that podcast. I went, huh, not that exact story, but damn, it's a great framework of the story that. you could tweak and have some fun with. Yeah.

Starting point is 01:42:38 It didn't take a whole lot of work to make that make sense. You got to think, too, that whatever they're going to do here in this fatal four way is going to be important based on the results of the men's rural rumble and the elimination chamber and Seth Rollins. So there's lots of little wrinkles that we're going to discover. I think most people would assume that punk is going to win the rumble and call out Seth Rollins. or that Cody's going to go back to back

Starting point is 01:43:08 and call out Roman Raines. It'll be interesting to see how we get there. I know you and I are going to be watching it together. It's Top Guy Rumble Weekend. We're going to be in Tampa and everyone who is a top guy over on ad-freeshows.com is invited. We've got a full schedule planned. We're going to have a lot of fun, lots of fun silliness lined up.

Starting point is 01:43:32 And we want to thank all of you for all of your support over at ad-freeshows. And hey, shout out to everybody who showed up early on a Sunday morning to watch along with us here. Greg Jacobson and Josh Eni and Alex Wheaton and Coach Keith and so many other folks who were here. Little Jimmy Sorensen, P.J. Taints. And as I'm scrolling up, you guys are really active in the live chat today. Thank you guys, Noble and Leon and Carl and everybody for showing up and hanging out with us. Let's do a few questions from our live studio audience.

Starting point is 01:44:05 uh coach keith wants to know eric this might be too soon to say but with everything going on right now do you think this could be one of the best royal rumbles ever or at least top five and that eric to me is a great question because it sort of dovetails into what we're trying to talk about eventually here today is there too much talent at the top because a lot of times when we would watch a royal rumble we kind of knew going in well this guy's going to win or that guy's going to win. Like I think last year, everybody I was watching with sort of knew, okay, so Cody's winning. Cody's back and he's winning the Rumble. I don't know if I can call it this year. Will it be, you know, C and Punk? Will it be Cody? Or could they go a different direction since

Starting point is 01:44:52 there's so many question marks about what the Rock's doing and what Seth's doing? I think not being able to call it adds a lot to the enjoyment. What say you? Absolutely. There's the anticipation and the surprise. Action comes with the product. It's just absolutely, and I do agree. For me, now I'm going to be honest again, man, I haven't, I've always enjoyed the Royal Rumble. I've always felt the same way about it

Starting point is 01:45:19 in terms of the hierarchy of pay-per-views and putting it right up there right behind WrestleMania. But I've never been as interested as I am right now. So that suggests to me that I'm because I'm pretty average. I'm a passive viewer when it comes to W. and a ew wrestling in general i'm not like a diehard every monday night every wednesday every friday kind of guy um i'll drop in here in air look small joe caught my eye i'm going to drop in i watched the whole show most of it as a result but i don't know man i i do agree i think

Starting point is 01:45:53 this is probably going to be if not the best one of the best royal humbles but it is because they've got so many great talents, any of whom arguably could be the guy. It's just a question of which one would be the best guy. We talked a lot about how crowded at the top you really got once upon a time in WCW. We rattled off all the top names like Hulk Hogan, like the macho man, like Sting, like Lex Lugar, like Diamond Dallas Page, like Goldberg, like Kevin Nash, like Scott Hall, like Rick Flair. I mean, just on and on and on.

Starting point is 01:46:30 There's so much top talent there. And I wonder, man, this is going to be interesting to see how they put together this year's WrestleMania. I say that because even in the most recent wrestling observer, it was written that the main event could be Rock versus Roman or it could be Roman versus Cody or it could be a three way. Basically means Dave doesn't know what it is, but that's fine. She never knows.

Starting point is 01:47:00 But a three-way at WrestleMania. Could you see the match coming down to being Roman defending against both Cody and the Rock? And if they went that way, could the Rock be the one to get, deliver a rock bottom? But Cody steals the victory. Cody's the champ, even though it was the Rock's move that put him down.

Starting point is 01:47:25 Does that build? I don't like that. I don't like that. Because now you're giving it, now you're giving it to Cody with a dent. Yeah, I agree. It's like, here's this beautiful new car. I'm giving you to you, work so hard. I'm going to really reward you for all of your efforts.

Starting point is 01:47:40 And yeah, I know this. I know there's a dent inside, but just pretend it's not. I don't know. I don't like that. I don't like that outcome at all. There, I don't see it. I hope that's not. First of all, I got to say nothing surprises me anymore.

Starting point is 01:47:56 Could it happen? Sure. Do I think it'll happen? No, for the very reason I just mentioned. Because then Cody going forward has got a dent. And I just don't think that makes sense to me. I, for one, would like for Cody to not win the title that way. I agree with you.

Starting point is 01:48:17 But what do you do hypothetically? Because I just want to remind everybody that Endeavor does more than just UFC and WWE. I know a lot of people I know a lot of people who were sort of inside the bubble of the wrestling world think okay and ever has

Starting point is 01:48:36 WWE and UFC well and and and and and and and a lot of that involves film. So if the rock really is one of the biggest stars in the world and everyone seems to be in agreement on that that's a consensus and he's making a lot of movies with this company

Starting point is 01:48:55 and he's one of your biggest stars and one of your biggest line items and he says, hey man, I sure would like to wrestle at WrestleMania. How do you say no? He's got to be there. I mean,

Starting point is 01:49:09 whether you want to do that or not, I mean, I know I advocated that he was not a value ad. You don't have to have him. But if he wants to do it, and I got to do it to placate him on all your other stuff, right? I don't know if I, I don't know Brock at all, at all. I have an impression of him.

Starting point is 01:49:37 And that, that impression is, is informed to a certain degree by people that work with him. So whatever, however accurate my impression of Rock is or isn't, happens to be that, I don't, that would be a self-serving, for rock but it's a self-serving move that he absolutely doesn't need right is he going to take that position to feed his ego I don't think he has an ego that needs to be fed this guy's on top of the freaking world I want to believe

Starting point is 01:50:14 therefore my position is going to be that rock wants to bring his rockness to the table so that it benefits the company going forward because I would believe that Rock's relationship with Endeavor runs very, very deep, as you pointed out, and the benefits of Rock bringing his rockness to WWE to benefit business will parlay into better and more opportunities going forward between Rock and Endeavor than going, no, no, no, I haven't been on WrestleMania in a long time.

Starting point is 01:50:52 I really want it because I feel like I need the shine. I can't see that be a motivation. Yeah. I want to believe because of things that I've heard about rock, that he's going to do what's best for business and what's best for business is leveraging his rockness to benefit, whether it be Cody or somebody else, to elevate them to a higher level.

Starting point is 01:51:17 That's what I want to believe. And I do. I choose to believe. Allegedly, it was supposed to happen last. year, but they couldn't make a deal work. And of course, we know maybe now why. The timing was they were putting together this endeavor deal that would actually be announced the very next day. So maybe they didn't want to change a lot of things that were on the books or things like that, just so everybody understands. Like that due diligence period, you don't go making

Starting point is 01:51:47 drastic changes while all of that's happening. Now, with seemingly most of that behind you, I think you try to placate the biggest star and I just want to remind everybody this is the 25 year anniversary of his first WrestleMania main event which was also in Philadelphia in 1990. Oh, there you go.

Starting point is 01:52:08 Throwing those facts on the table to muck up my thing. And he's done about a thousand movies with Kevin Hart, who is also from Philadelphia. So it stands to me that these guys who are always top of the food chain

Starting point is 01:52:26 and I mean if the Rock or Kevin Hart want to do something at the Super Bowl they just pick up the phone and guess what they're doing something at the Super Bowl we've seen that before and it wouldn't surprise me to see them do something there

Starting point is 01:52:41 but I'm curious you're uniquely qualified to answer this how are they going to be able to keep all of this top talent happy I mean we've seen according to the rumor and innuendo that they were talent in AEW he didn't feel like they were being utilized as much as they could meanwhile I think as fans we all say but the creative on WWE so much better that doesn't mean there's still not frustration

Starting point is 01:53:07 everybody shouldn't say everybody nearly everyone in that women and men's locker room in WWE want to be the top guy Eric but they can all be no you can't all be and that's one of the, you know, one of the mistakes that I made, WCW, going back, is bringing in so much top talent so quickly. And we didn't have, you know, we had 12 pay-per-views a year and one television show, time time. Initially, I started bringing in all that top talent. WWE has two primetime television shows, and God knows how many PLEs I've lost count. In addition to all these massive events

Starting point is 01:53:54 that they do internationally, like Saudi, and are going to do more of. So the opportunity to keep your top, top talent busy, making money, feeling productive, getting opportunities, not just sitting at home, waiting for the phone to ring. WWA has a much better opportunity to utilize a deeper roster than I did.

Starting point is 01:54:20 But the problem, I'll just talk about my problem because I'm not in WWE. I don't know what it's like to have their situation. I can only imagine it. But I live mine. So let's talk about that. It was so exciting to bring in all this new talent because you do. you get the buzz, you get the chatter, you get the perceived momentum, which eventually becomes actual momentum as a result.

Starting point is 01:54:50 Reception becomes reality, so to speak. And initially all that top talent comes in. They're getting paid well, probably just like AEW. They're getting paid well in some cases as much or more money than they made previously, similar to AEW right. And initially that talent, they're just happy to be on the team. They're happy for the financial security. They're very grateful for it,

Starting point is 01:55:15 especially guys that are getting towards the end of their careers. Roddy Piper, Randy Savage, Hulk was in a different category, all of his own. But a lot of that older, established, top star talent, they were so excited to walk into a situation where they knew how much money they were going to make next year. Not this year, next year. Because that was new to them. And that stability is the older you, are, the more important it becomes obvious reasons. But, as I've said before, that wears off.

Starting point is 01:55:50 Then what you're left with is the essence of talent. The essence of talent, the reason, I say essence, the reason they become formers as opposed to accountants or architects or jet pilots or truck drivers just because they have this inherent love to bring them. Something draws them to the stage we call professional wrestling, much like actors and actresses are drawn to Broadway or to Hollywood. Their need to perform is real. It's part of their DNA.

Starting point is 01:56:34 And it's what makes them exceptional in that regard. when they stick with it and sue it to develop. But once you take a talent, whether it's an actor or an actress or professional wrestler or a musician, and they're no longer able to satisfy that current need to perform, it drives them as much as hunger sometimes. It's just a different kind of hunger. It feeds their souls.

Starting point is 01:57:04 And when you get too many of them, and you just don't have a way to satisfy that need to perform, eventually it manifests in resentment, frustration, anger, all the things that follow those emotions. And it becomes, it can become, as it was in my case, very difficult to manage. And I had, I struggled with it because I'm, I was never, I was a talent, but I wasn't driven by being a talent. I just happened to end up being a talent.

Starting point is 01:57:42 It wasn't my goal. I didn't think about it when I was young. I never aspired to it. It just fucking happened, right? But I would often initially, when it started happening to me, when I was starting to deal with the resentment, jealousy, the anger, and the frustration, all the things that come along with a performer that's not able to perform to his or her

Starting point is 01:58:07 abilities or goals, I would be like, what the fuck, dude? Hey, did you check show up? Remember that check? That thing you were so excited about. Remember when you hugged me at the end of our contract negotiation and it was literally a tear in your eye because now you knew you could provide for your family long term? Do you remember that conversation? What happened?

Starting point is 01:58:31 What happened? Well, what happened is they get used to it. that sense of fulfillment and security just kind of fades away. And that flame, that core, that driver that makes that talent who they became in order to get that contract, starts burning hotter and hotter and hotter and things unwind. We all know, we all know people in AEW that we're friends with, friend Lee with, hear from occasionally.

Starting point is 01:59:08 This is not new. This went on for a while. You get so much top talent like Tony got in there. Everybody's happy. Yay, rah, rah. Oh my gosh, I'm part of this. This is great. And then the chatter starts.

Starting point is 01:59:23 Then the frustration starts. Then the resentment starts. And then that's when morale starts really deteriorating. It becomes a real management problem. It starts affecting your creative. It did mine. I'll speak for myself. Now you're starting to try to compromise and try to find a way to keep everybody as satisfied as possible.

Starting point is 01:59:46 Guess what suffers? Creative. Because you're compromising. You're not looking at your roster as a producer going, okay, I've got all of these weapons in my arsenal. Each one of these talents is a weapon. They may not be the exact same. weapon. They're different weapons. That's a bazooka. That's a grenade launcher. That's a machine gun. That's a flamethrower. You've got this wide arsenal of weapons of war for being

Starting point is 02:00:15 television ratings and competition success in general. Competing with yourself to be successful. Can't use them all at once. You better use this one over here for this kind of, this particular battle. We'll save this one over here until the battle advanced, whatever. get my point. But when that resentment, that vibe, the morale starts deteriorating your first instinct, my first instinct was to try to placate. Okay, you're right, you're right. You haven't been on a pay-per-view.

Starting point is 02:00:48 You haven't been featured as a main eventer now in four months or six months for you, whatever is, okay, let's see if we can work something. That's a compromise. As opposed to looking at your roster as a cast of actors in being able to let the creative, drive the casting decisions, you're now letting the actors drive casting decisions. Or you're dealing with the negativity and the morale that's a fallout as a result of it.

Starting point is 02:01:18 Does that make sense? Yes. Okay. I wasn't sure. I lost myself. Let's talk a little bit about L.A. 9th. You know, you mentioned earlier, that you might consider doing something with him at the four-way at the Rumble.

Starting point is 02:01:39 I don't see that. I do think he's super hot. I think he needs to be positioned correctly at WrestleMania. There's been lots of rumor in innuendo that his WrestleMania opponent might actually be Logan Paul. Logan Paul is going to be taken on Kevin Owens this weekend at the Royal Rumble. And if you saw their interaction on TV a few weeks ago, it got physical. physical. Kevin Owens flipped him for real. Logan's been sporting a huge black eye on his

Starting point is 02:02:09 podcast and his appearances. And then they did battle in a little promo battle, if you will, this past Friday on Smackdown. What would you do with Logan Paul this weekend? And do you think he is the right opponent for Logan Paul and the United States championship at WrestleMania? Kevin Owens, the right opponent. L.A. Knight. Do you think L.A. Knight winning the rumor is it's L.A. Knight and Logan Paul at WrestleMania. What do you think of that? And how would you get there knowing that this Kevin Owens matches on the docket? I wouldn't go there. Just wouldn't.

Starting point is 02:02:47 You don't like Logan and L.A. night together. No. They're both ascending. That will stall somebody's assent. Why would you do that? Well, I would argue that I don't think have to have Logan Paul to be the U.S. champion, I don't think he has to have that. I think Logan Paul being such a huge name and having that title belt, I think you only put that belt on Logan Paul so he can help elevate someone and that someone be LA night. Like that makes sense to me. Or it puts the final kind of seal of approval, credibility on Logan. Because Logan

Starting point is 02:03:29 came in as an attraction. He came in as a YouTube star. Yes. Brought all his audience with him and everyone went, holy shit, this guy can wrestle like crazy. He wrestles like he's been in the ring for 15 years. And he's this major success story. When you take somebody from outside the business, thrust him into the business at a very high level, and then they over-deliver to the extent that Paul has, you still want to give him that stamp of credibility amongst the wrestling fans. And I think the U.S. title was a great way to do that.

Starting point is 02:04:01 That's my long-winded way of saying, I absolutely agree with you. He doesn't need that title. I think the title served him. Yeah. It served the purpose. It wasn't just, oh, let's just put a title out of him. It served a purpose and it put the period at the end of his credibility sentence. But now it's time to move on.

Starting point is 02:04:17 So, yeah, I could see, I could see it while losing the title, Kurt. No. See, now I'm changing my mind because I'm thinking. But getting that title. from Paul help L.A. Knight? I think so. Abs of fucking Lutley. Therefore, everything I just said previously about it.

Starting point is 02:04:43 Two ascending stars just went out the window because I didn't consider the belt transition. So, yeah, I could see it. It does make sense. I'd love to see L.A. Night continuing to ascend. I don't want to see them stall out. Now, here's it. I'm going to throw this out while we're talking about L.A. night. I was thinking about this yesterday.

Starting point is 02:05:01 I wanted to bring it up. I would love our listeners. First of all, we have the most, in my opinion, area of that intelligent audience of any wrestling podcast out there. I'm on Google Ariel Diet. Huh?

Starting point is 02:05:17 I'm Googling Ariel Diet. Okay. Doctors, heart surgeons, lawyers that argue cases in front of the Supreme Court, actors, established, incredible.

Starting point is 02:05:31 actors, sportscasters, nationally known sportscasters, athletes. For all people that listen to 83 weeks, follow us, communicate with me through DMs and so forth in social media. We have a really, really intelligent audience. But I would like to put it to the audience. If you're in your spare time, you're looking for something to do, you want to crunch some numbers and pick out a nugget of fact that nobody else is really talked about in depth, but also to support it with detail, in fact, I'd like our audience to look

Starting point is 02:06:06 into the fact that, well, here's the question. Of the top 10 wrestlers over the last five years, how many of them have been in the business for less than 10 years? How many superstars? Now, what's a superstar? And for a long time, WWE, if they put you in front of a camera, holding a microphone, and you were considered a BWE superstar. I, on the other hand, have a little different opinion of a superstar. So we'd have to probably build some parameters out there.

Starting point is 02:06:40 Let's just throw a couple off the top of my head. Let's say a top talent who has been in at least three pay-per-views in any calendar year. Let's just use that to start with. We may dig into it. How many top talents

Starting point is 02:06:57 that have been in the main event of at least three pay-per-views in any calendar year have ever been in the business for less than 10 years before they got that opportunity. It's going to be fun to look at that. And I think that L.A. Knight is such a great example. Like, if I owned a wrestling company, if I was a general man,

Starting point is 02:07:25 legitimate, not an eye-camera general. I had some influence and talent. I would be using LA Knight as a motivational opportunity every day. Here's the guy who's, we're talking about him at the very top of the, the top of the card here. Yes. He's been in the business for what, 20 years?

Starting point is 02:07:50 Yeah. Whatever it is? I don't even know. It's been a long time. And he's been down at the bottom and barely making it. and struggling and probably had every reason to believe this was like the worst career decision in the world long term. And then he breaks out.

Starting point is 02:08:07 It clicks. It's a moment either because of the writing team that helped find him or he found himself, much like Stone Cold Steve Austin did when he found Stone Cold Steve Austin and ECW back when Vince wanted him to be the ringmaster. But Steve already knew he felt Stone Cold Steve Austin. He developed that character. He became Stone Cold Steve Austin, just a little bit in ECW. And when the ringmaster gimmick flopped as it should have,

Starting point is 02:08:36 Steve had Stone Cold Steve Austin in his back pocket. That's an example of what can happen if you stick to it. Don't get depressed. Don't let people around you drag you down. Don't let anybody convince you it can't happen. Because if you work hard and you have fun and you learn, you progress, you adapt, and you're not so focused and biopic, your time can come. And I think because of L.A. Knight's success recently and because of his story,

Starting point is 02:09:12 his real life story, I just think I would want him to get that U.S. championship just because he fucking deserves it. And he's a great motivational example of talent. Hey, man, if I'm running, if Sean Michaels, if Sean Michaels isn't pointing to new talent that's coming through the door, if he's not pointing to L.A. night and saying, guys, this is not going to be easy, gals, this is not going to be easy. Just because you hear it doesn't mean you're going to end up there,

Starting point is 02:09:40 meaning WWE, you know, prime time, you're going to get an opportunity to learn. And it may be hard. Here's a guy over here. See this guy over here who's at the very top of the card? and you all wish you had his opportunity? Well, look at the path it took for him to get there. That's valuable.

Starting point is 02:09:57 That's an asset. I love that story. So yeah, I want him to get it. I don't even know how we got off on. Well, I asked and you said you would absolutely positively not have Logan Paul work with LA and I.

Starting point is 02:10:13 Yeah, but I changed my mind. Come on. Then you did a 180. By the way, I did a little quick research, easy for me to say. Off the top. of my head, guys who've been

Starting point is 02:10:22 in main events over, I just went back the last year, who've been in the business less than 10 years. So far I've nailed down MJF, Darby Allen, and Dominic Mysterio. To your point, not a ton of guys at the top of the card

Starting point is 02:10:37 who haven't been around more than 10 years. Not taking anything away from MJF or Darby Allen, but come on. It's a little different, I mean, different competitive environment, let's be. whatever. Okay, I'll stand. Yes, they're there. And I think MJF for sure deserves that position. Absolutely.

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Starting point is 02:12:45 You know, one of the other things we haven't talked about, and it's a big name. We've heard he's coming back and we've heard it's going to happen quote unquote sooner rather than later. Of course, we all look around the corner and realize this weekend's the Royal Rumble.

Starting point is 02:13:00 A lot of people are under the impression that Andrade is going to be returning to WWE. As I understand it, there have been some patterns you could watch. Of course, he gave notice. He's officially finished up with AEW three weeks ago. But I think some of his independent books, have been canceled.

Starting point is 02:13:19 A lot of people are jumping to the conclusion. Oh, that must mean he's back with WWE. But the name that's been bandied about is being back sooner rather than later. Talked about a big name. How about not just in name, but in stature. Brock Lesner supposedly coming back to WWE. What in the world? We were just talking about how crowded this space is.

Starting point is 02:13:42 If Brock comes back, you got to think in a normal, year, okay, he's in the conversation to win the rumble. If that's not the direction they go, man, he's got to do something at WrestleMania and I, for one, hope that he's here to chase the title of a different kind. What about him and Gunther at WrestleMania, dude? Oh, I mean, aesthetically.

Starting point is 02:14:08 Can you imagine? The poster. Yes. Just the poster gets me excited. That's great. that's a great option. That would be awesome. Great for Gunther, too.

Starting point is 02:14:24 It would be great for Gunther. It would be curious to see what they do. Of course, right now there's lots of, you know, it's funny that we talk about how the wrestling business is cyclical. And I know that there's a lot of people who are always complaining about creative. And I get that. But once upon a time, there was so much criticism about the way the belts were, quote, unquote, hot potatoed.

Starting point is 02:14:46 Oh, they don't. mean anything anymore and all this sort of stuff now roman and gunther are both like on their way to setting records i mean gunther's already the longest reigning intercontinental champion and seemingly roman's not too far away from hogan he's passed almost everyone else like besides bruno accord these titles all the sudden mean a lot so normally i would say no chance they're going to put brock in there with gun for the intercontinental title, but I don't know, right? I mean, he's never had the intercontinental title.

Starting point is 02:15:23 He's held the world title every which way but loose. He's won the Royal Rumble. I could get behind that. I could see that. Cody, I mean, not Cody, but Gunther and Brock. I mean, like I said, aesthetically, I get very excited about it. I mean, two great characters, you know, kind of in some way similar. Not physically, but in terms of the characters.

Starting point is 02:15:47 But doesn't it feel like it's too much all at once? I mean, does it, would it, I'm asking this is a question. I don't know. It's just like this is the first I've heard. It's the first time I heard Brock's coming back or baby coming. But it's like,

Starting point is 02:16:05 yeah, wouldn't you just want to spread some of this out a little bit? There's just so much good stuff. Are you really maximizing it if it's all happening at once? That goes back to all this great top talent. Are we too top heavy? Are you shooting your wad too fast? Are you,

Starting point is 02:16:25 are you satisfying the audience too much so that there's nowhere to go? It feels like, I don't know the answer to that. It feels that way. It also feels like if you're really going to get stringent on the brand split, now's the time to do it. Because now all of a sudden you have enough top talent. You really could.

Starting point is 02:16:47 sort of have your own little promotion within a promotion on Raw and do the exact same thing on SmackDown. But when you see guys who are on both shows, and I understand the strategy behind that right now when you're trying to get, you know, brand new home for Monday Night Raw and, and you know you're leaving USA, you got to do what you can to really pump that show up. But while not also abandoning your commitments on the Smackdown side. But man, with Becky Lynch and Seth Rollins and C.M. Punk and Brock Lesner and Sammy Zane and Kevin Owens and the Uso's and Cody and L.A. Knight. I mean, this feels like old school WCW.

Starting point is 02:17:29 It's just so freaking crowded. And I guess lost in all of this, we haven't discussed it at all, is the whole bloodline storyline. I mean, that has been the thing that has carried this to where it is. but there was a pay-per-view last year and it's a press conference so of course Paul Heyman's in character but when he was asked you know where do you think you are in the bloodline story

Starting point is 02:17:52 and he said something like the third inning that they're a third of the way through the bloodline story I don't know man where do you think they are is is there a lesson you learned through your WCW days about

Starting point is 02:18:08 because I know we've talked a lot here before that one of your bigger regrets is you didn't have a conclusive end to the NWO. Are we getting close to that concern, do you think, for the bloodline story? Potentially. And it kind of goes to what we were just talking about with all of these other stories and big stories and headlines and returns and Brock coming back. And now Brock coming back. And L.A. Knight's on an ascention.

Starting point is 02:18:39 Rogan Paul's off the charts hot. Cody, Cody, this story has been evolving now since last year and before. I mean, there's just so much of it. And I haven't heard a conversation about bloodline. Peace. Right. We're close. Well, we'll say this.

Starting point is 02:19:02 Potentially we're close to getting to a point of just dropping something hot. but I think a lot remains to be seen. Let's see what happens at WrestleMania. That's, we will be able to answer this question definitively in ways that no one will be able to argue with the day after WrestleMania. Right now,

Starting point is 02:19:28 I'm still kind of in a hopeful wait and C mode with regard to the bloodline. I hope Paul Heyman was right. I don't care if we're in the last third. I'm not, I don't care if we've only got, got one inning left paid off don't do what i did don't build up such something so great i mean really the bloodline storyline as i've said before without question the best storyline in wrestling in the last

Starting point is 02:19:55 30 years i i won't even argue with anybody that feels differently because they're coming at the argument place of ignorance and i don't waste time with that but wow i hope that they do it would be really unfortunate they don't. I can't imagine they don't have a plan. And again, I've said this before. Patterns, man. I see a dot here, a dot here, dot here, dot here. I have a unique ability to connect dots in a way that creates a picture that's right most of the time. That's being able to see into the future in reality, being able to anticipate things based on what you see happening in front of you. That is more or less obscure because it's kind of happening behind the seen so to speak. But I hope I can say is I hope I wouldn't want to see it, but let's

Starting point is 02:20:45 let's see what happens after WrestleMania. Let's see what happened. Boy, boy, if they drop that one, smoked. That's going to make me and Sting and Hogan look good. Well, listen, we know it's going to get crowded at the top over on the other side. It is going to be interesting to see what they do at the Royal Rumble. It's going to be interesting to see what they do, uh, and elimination chamber. Uh, let's do a little bit more of the feedback that we got. I, um, I wanted to highlight some comments from Twitter. Regieve over on Twitter says, I'm a big fan of AEW that watches every week. Too many pay per views can't afford it every month. There's lots of good stuff. Few great stuff. Honey con, whenever he opens his mouth

Starting point is 02:21:27 and attacks on social media, is a turnoff. Makes me like his product less. Just shut up and wrestle. It is something I wanted to ask you about because I have seen a lot of people who have decided they don't like Tony Con. But they've never met Tony Con. They've just decided that they don't like what they see. And it made me wonder, and I'm not wishing for this. I'm just asking. What would you think if Tony Con decided to take a page out of your book or Vince's book and he became an on-screen character? for A.W? He already is. I mean, guys, he already is. He spent his easy. This, again, he's, oh, he hates Tony gone. He's jealous. Tony wouldn't give him a job. That'll be the go-to for the

Starting point is 02:22:21 lesson formed. But I said years ago, stay off TV, Tony. Somebody's got to love that man enough to convince him that he's hurting his own product by being on television, whether it's in the press conference, whether it's coming out and announcing matches, whatever it is, the man should not be in front of anything that has a red light on it. Just don't. Because he's not good at it. It doesn't make him a bad person. It doesn't make him a... There's no negative. Just because you're not good on camera doesn't really mean all that much. I don't think it means is you shouldn't do it, because you're hurting your product. And I said that from a constructive perspective,

Starting point is 02:23:05 don't put somebody who doesn't enhance the perception of your product out in front of it. That's why Cody Rhodes was so great for AEW early on. That's why Chris Jericho. If you go back and look at some of the stuff coming out of AEW from day one, Chris Jericho was the front of it. Yes. Chris Jericho was the unofficial face of AEW. Yes.

Starting point is 02:23:26 And I thought that makes sense. credibility great character the audience loves him that makes sense and then all of a sudden Cody and Jericho are shoved off the side and all I'm hearing about is from Tony con but way way wait wait don't do that you're not that guy you've got two guys who are and now you're pushing them to the side so you can be the face of the company and Tony may not be a scripted storyline character but he gets about his he gets more TV time than about 60% of the talent he has on his roster. So, yeah, I think it's a huge mistake.

Starting point is 02:24:05 He is not a good brand ambassador. You see him on television, you hear him screaming and stopping his feet, scrunching up his face and acting like a petulant 12-year-old child. That's not a good brand look. By the way, your television partners aren't probably that comfortable either. Because it's not like Vince McMahon, who is playing an evil character. he was a great performer. Eric Bischoff was playing a smarmy, power-hungry little prick.

Starting point is 02:24:35 He was a pretty good character. He could act. He could perform. Vince McMahon could act and perform. Tony Kahn can't do any of that other than make people kind of like fingernails on a chalkboard uncomfortable. I just wondered if that's been pitched or presented. I'm not advocating for it. I'm just saying it does feel like

Starting point is 02:25:00 if there's a certain amount of the audience that already has decided they quote unquote don't like him. Why not lean into that? Why not double down? But I thought the same thing about Cornett. Like early on, I thought, man, Cornett managing like FTR and AW,

Starting point is 02:25:17 knowing that he said all the things he said and that audience has already sort of preconditioned to hate him, it feels like it would have been a great opportunity. Of course, we know it did. It would have a great opportunity because Jim Cornett's an amazing performer. I mean, I love listening to Jim Cornett. I know he buries me on time and all that shit. I could care less.

Starting point is 02:25:33 Yeah. Because I think he's entertaining his. Absolutely. He'd be great. I just don't see Tony being entertaining as. Jay Beard had some comments about Cornett. He responded on X. He says, all I want to know is how in the hell today, he's talking about FTR, talk like

Starting point is 02:25:54 that about Eric, without mentioning Corny. Close my mind. They go after him for the reasons they said and not a peep about him. Of course, he's talking about Cornette. Well, I think. I suspect behind the scenes that the FTR were motivated

Starting point is 02:26:10 to do it. I think they were I don't know. Could be wrong. Maybe it was all personal, but I wouldn't be surprised if that was a prompted strategy from somebody behind the scene. I mean, because honestly, these, I mean, you saw it.

Starting point is 02:26:26 I posted it. Dexter's putting over my show. I steal your shit. Yeah. That's what he says. Yeah. I listen to it every week. Download on my phone.

Starting point is 02:26:35 I was doing the same thing when he wrote that email or that text post as I was last week. Exactly. Nothing changed on my end, dude. The only thing has changed on your end, which begs the question, why? Right. Why all of a sudden do you have a 180? before you're following my formula, stealing my shit, admitting it in public,

Starting point is 02:26:57 I haven't changed the thing, but now all of a sudden, you've got a problem. I always go to why. Chris Tilliard over on Twitter says a very short comment, Eric's ongoing loyalty to Ted Turner is absolutely wonderful to see. Another comment in support from Jet 71111. WCW was in a different league than AEW. It is what it is.

Starting point is 02:27:24 The facts are there to prove it. Eric is the only one to go head to head with Vince and not just beat him, but whip the WWF. Nobody else has even beaten him. At one point, WCW was the top promotion in the world. And that last sentence, I feel like, gets lost on a lot of people, Eric. At one point, WCW was the very top promotion in the world. we've not yet been able to say that about AEW

Starting point is 02:27:51 nor will you ever we uh we did get some negative takes about I'll bring on the negative stuff I know all the good stuff I appreciate hearing about bring on that bad stuff this is from

Starting point is 02:28:08 well I feel bad even saying the name of the poster CM Punk choking his co-workers silly name but he wanted me to say it so I did My belief is Eric has now found something that has increased his viewership and social media engagement by predominantly bashing AEW and Tony Cohen. Eric showing his year-over-year increases cemented it. I think it's cheap, biased, and disingenuous.

Starting point is 02:28:36 But hey, controversy creates cash, am I right? Well, you're partially right, dude. Controversity does create cash. That's a proven formula. Yep. Read the book. Look around you. look at politics, look at movies, look at sports,

Starting point is 02:28:51 look at anything that you want to look at and try to convince me, at least, that controversy of the cash that it creates isn't at the core of it. It just fucking is what it is, dude. But with regard to me posting some of my social media increase over that particular week, again, again, I was responding to a question. I was asked what's all this chatter

Starting point is 02:29:20 doing to your social media following something to that effect and I posted it yeah that's it not bragging about it I'm proud of it it was interesting

Starting point is 02:29:32 I was kind of surprised I've never had like 6 million you know news in a day or 10 million or whatever it was 10 million impression but it doesn't make me a better person just is what it is

Starting point is 02:29:45 and it was in response to a question. That's all. So I know from your perspective, whatever your name, see I'm choking out his cohorts or whatever. Yeah. Like it was. Again, it's your question, you know, disingenuous is an interesting word. Another one that's used a lot by like Dave Meltzer and Tony Khan is bad faith. Yes. Literally and bad faith. These are the two most overused words or terms in all of social media. And it's usually by people who are operating in bad faith, to be honest. I was just, I was just responding. I'm not embarrassed by it. I'm not overly proud of it. It doesn't have, it just is what it is. Any more than I'd be proud of the fact that it's

Starting point is 02:30:31 47 degrees right now here in Cody, Wyoming. It's got nothing to do with me. Yeah, the post do and the action does, but it doesn't mean anything. I can't take it to the bank and put it my checking can count. I can't eat it. I can't wear it. Can't drive it. It's just a fucking silly number. But it is a silly number that is in response to a question. So get over yourself. Disingenuous shit. Oh, wow. There we go. I just got to throw that in for fun. A little stank on there too. I like it. Oh, come on. I'm just having all of this isn't fun. We had something new happened this week. We had a couple of folks asked their question on video.

Starting point is 02:31:12 They filmed a selfie to ask you a question here, Eric. Oh, goody. So let's take a look at Dean K-88, who had a question for you, Eric. Hey, guys. I think it's unfortunate what's happened specifically between Eric and Tony lately. I remember

Starting point is 02:31:32 the fight for the Fallen Preview in 2020 and everything Tony said about Eric about being an inspiration and a role model and laying the ground for an alternative to Vince, I think it's unfortunate. Perhaps Tony's lost sight of that. I hope there can be resolved because I've got it so much respect for the both of them. Yeah, how about that?

Starting point is 02:31:56 Somebody who wishes for happier days with you and Tony. There's something about people with a British accent. it's just it adds such a level of sophistication to the to their points it's like how do you argue with that right like now i feel bad like i agree it's unfortunate it it is unfortunate but it is what it is but i will also say i think john alba asked me this on strictly this couple weeks ago has it gotten so bad between you and tony that like he's beyond repair no no absolutely not it in and that's the part of it that i don't get is how people feel like i am so like this is so personal right number one it's fun number two it's relevant we're talking about the wrestling

Starting point is 02:32:47 but just think guess what that's what we do on this show mucker fathers we talk about wrestling and there's a lot to talk about i have a strong opinion and it comes off and people say oh my gosh he hates tony they don't hate tony if he was driving through cody and and hit me on my dm said hey i and Cody, I'd invite him over to the house to have a drink or cook a mistake or something. No hate. So, I don't know. I agree. It's unfortunate.

Starting point is 02:33:14 I think I honestly think Tony's, Tony was over his head. I think he thought it was going to be a lot easier than it is. That's not a need. And I think he lost sight of a number of things along the way. And I was there to point it out. We are where we are. but there's no hate here. Hey, Tony, anytime you're in Cody,

Starting point is 02:33:36 just hit me in the DM. You don't even have to call me. You got my number, but yeah, whatever. So let me know you're in Cody and I'll cook you a steak. It's all good, brother. What else is all good is our brand new affiliate partnership with fanatics in the WWB shop.

Starting point is 02:33:50 It's an easy way to support your favorite podcast. You can shop official WW Gear and Apparel by using our special URL. Shop Wrestlingmerge.com. That's shop wrestlingmerch.com. or if you're watching along with us on YouTube, hit that QR code that's up on the screen now or check out the description below for today's episode and we'll have the link there.

Starting point is 02:34:11 But you can finally shop with confidence for your favorite superstar teas, hoodies, caps, belts, and everything else from the WWE shop by using our special link, shop wrestlingmerch.com. To be clear, it costs nothing extra, but it does support the show. So if you're digging what we're doing and looking to pick up some swag

Starting point is 02:34:32 and you just know they're going to have some great deals this weekend in time for the Royal Rumble. Be sure to head up shop wrestlingmerch.com. Eric, we got more of a statement rather than a question, but we do have another video I want to roll for you. And you guys can, by all means,

Starting point is 02:34:54 get in on the conversation. We want you to be a part of next week's show. If you've got a comment, something you'd like to say to Eric, throw that selfie video up at 83 weeks, and we'll see it. Here's a message from Holly Dizzle or Dizzle Holly. Here we go. Fantastic episode with Eric Strikes Back on 83 weeks with Eric Bischoff.

Starting point is 02:35:17 Tony needs to think things through before they come out of his money, a lot of times, I believe. Totally on Eric's side, comparing WCW and IEW just ridiculous. you um again fantastic episode and all the best for you guys we appreciate the support there you know i do think that a lot of people are going to inherently just make the wcw comparison because of the names because of the color schemes because of the channels because they're trying to challenge vince but that's probably where it ends i mean in the end you know Tony Kahn owns AEW, whereas a television network, you know, Turner owned WCW. So not really the same comparison, but it has been, you know, a safe harbor for talent who

Starting point is 02:36:09 wanted a change of pace. They wanted to do something differently. And that's what I wanted to ask you about, Eric, because you had so much top talent on the WCW side of things that it did feel like there was, for lack of a better word, a glass ceiling. And guys like Chris Benoit and guys like Chris Jericho and Eddie Guerrero, they would go on to have greater success and become world champions in a new place. But they needed a change of scenery to do it, or at least most people think that. But we've seen legends even. I mean, Daniel Bryan, fresh off of a WrestleMania main event, jumped to AEW.

Starting point is 02:36:51 And maybe that was for the schedule. Maybe it was for the money. but I would believe a guy like Daniel Bryan, it was for the love of the game. He wanted to go paint outside the lines, if that makes sense. And I think Edge did the exact same thing. In his interview, Adam Copeland, said that he walked away from WWE because he felt like he had accomplished everything. What do you think?

Starting point is 02:37:14 I mean, once upon a time, we saw guys, you know, like Chris Jericho and like Chris Benoit and Eddie Guerrero, leaving WCW to. go to the WWF, but we saw other top talent, like Hulk Hogan and Randy Savage and Scott Hall and Kevin Nash. Man, they left the WWF to come to WCW. What do you expect? I know there's been a handful, seeing punk, Cody Rhodes, um, and, yes, jade. And now the rumor in innuendo is perhaps Andrade is next on the list.

Starting point is 02:37:52 What do you think is the reason? and we're seeing these talent go back and forth. It can't just be about money. It can't just be about schedule. The love of the game has to factor in, right? It goes back to that passion. We talked about these are performers. And I think human nature is to think that grass is always greener somewhere else.

Starting point is 02:38:15 Yes. Until you get there and he realized it's not. In fact, it's not even grass. It's kind of muddy. messy, and you realize you made a mistake and you go back. You know, when Scott Hall and Kevin Nash came over, they didn't come over because the grass was greener in terms of the size of the company

Starting point is 02:38:40 and their ability to wrestle in front of big crowd. In fact, WCW was struggling. We're doing okay. We had this show called Nitro, but we weren't like selling out arenas or anything like that. There was no giant merchandising checks people were bragging about. There were no big pay-per-view payoffs of people bragging about. Scott Hall and Kevin Nash, particularly, specifically, I should say, came. Not because of the money.

Starting point is 02:39:07 People say that. It's not really true. They were making close to the same amount of money that I paid them in WW. They just weren't sure they were going to get it or they weren't sure it was going to be consistent. And they wanted to be on the road less. Kevin had a newborn son. Wanted to settle down, wanted to make his family priority. Scott Hall was tired of the schedule.

Starting point is 02:39:29 They were worn down. And they saw an opportunity to make as much or maybe more money with a lesser schedule. So there was a reason or motivation that had nothing to do with the grass is greener. It was all about lifestyle. Maybe similar to what Daniel Bryan, perhaps that was his motivation. But if you look at some of that younger talent like Chris Jericho, Eddie Guerrero, Chris Benoit, Perry Saturn included in that group, while left, they left for a different motivation. They didn't leave for an easier schedule.

Starting point is 02:39:59 They didn't leave to necessarily make more money because they didn't know what they were going to get when they got there, most part, other than maybe a downside guarantee's, which probably weren't as much money as they were making in WCW. I don't know that essay. It could be wrong. Chris will clarify. He'll correct me if I'm wrong, I'm sure. But it just depends on the motivation.

Starting point is 02:40:19 And I think some of the, you know, J. Cargo, so young, so much potential, she made a, she made a career decision, much like I suggested Okada do. Where's my long-term future? Is it in this company that's, eh, maybe viable, maybe not, or is it over here where this company is definitely viable? and I'm at an age and I have the interest in pursuing entertainment in a world where I can actually grow. That was a career decision. Everybody's different. Everybody makes their choices for different reasons. It's too hard to kind of say,

Starting point is 02:41:01 oh, I think they're all leaving because. I think they're all individual reasons, but I think at the core of it, for the people that are going back to WWE, like Cody, like Jane, like punk, they've seen both sides and they prefer WD because now they've been there. Well, we know that we prefer when we get actually the opportunity to get out and see you guys. And I'm excited to announce that Starcast down under is happening April 11th through April 14th.

Starting point is 02:41:34 Here we go, Ballarat, Victoria, Australia. It's our first ever international starcast. Brett Hart is going to be there. and he's going to be on stage. How about this first stage show? Hit Man and Evening with Brett Hart. I'll be there with him and we're going to be talking a lot about his wrestling career and maybe some things we've talked about on this very show.

Starting point is 02:41:56 We're also going to be talking about and doing a watch-along of his 30th anniversary of WrestleMania 10, his fabulous match with Owen Hart. It's one of his favorite matches of his career. We'll talk about that. We'll do some Q&A. You'll have your opportunity to meet the hitman. and all of your favorites, including Bread Heart's Australian Stampede.

Starting point is 02:42:17 That's right. There's not one but two shows. We've got Brett Hart's Australian Stampede, a super card of wrestlers from all around the world, and Mickey James is going to have H-E-R, this is an all-women show. I'm going to call it her. So Brett Hart, Mickey James,

Starting point is 02:42:35 and a lot of other talent, including some of our favorites, Shelton Benjamin and Chris Masters, a whole lot more. Come see your favorites. come do the Cuban A's, come see the stage shows, watch the wrestling matches. Starcast.com has all of your information. That's S-T-R-R-C-A-S-T.com.

Starting point is 02:42:52 April 11th through the 14th. One week after WrestleMania, we're coming your way, Australia. Starcast.com has an all for sale right now. Listen, we have talked a little bit about everything today. We've had some video, we've had lots of feedback, and we are continuing to solicit feedback. we want to know what you guys want us to talk about. Of course, our friend JR always says in wrestling, it comes down to cash and creative.

Starting point is 02:43:18 And that's a lot of what we're going to be talking about here on this show. Guys like Edge and Daniel Bryan have probably made mountains of cash in their WWE career. But maybe they wanted to have a little more control over their creative. So they took a run. And the creative is what everybody is going to be talking about this weekend at Royal Rumble and the fallout from that and how they, they set up elimination chamber.

Starting point is 02:43:42 I think this might be one of the most anticipated Royal Rumbulls in WW history, Eric, because so much could change. I agree. I'm really looking forward to it. You won't hear me say throughout the year that I'm looking forward to a pay-per-view too often beyond WrestleMania, just because it is what it is. But I think I'm actually more interested in Rumble right now than I am in WrestleMania, maybe because it's, you know, next week and I'm going to be down there in

Starting point is 02:44:10 forwarded with you and all of our friends and family members over at every shows. A lot of them are going to be there at top guys. Top cows. So it's just, you know, I'm going to get my head shaved again. Once a fucking again. I'm going to get my last time, folks. But seeing me get my head shaved is not something that, you know, people haven't seen more than once, more than three, more than four times before.

Starting point is 02:44:33 It's happened a lot. The only thing that makes this difference is I'm going to get it. I'm going to pay an homage. The World Warrior Hawk. I'm going to get a hawk style Mohawk. That's different. Yeah, I'm going to do that. But more than anything, I'm really, really, really looking forward to the watch along with everybody.

Starting point is 02:44:55 It's going to be a fun party. My son Garrett's going to be there. I'm going to try to get Way J, my grandson to show up. Wow. Maybe do a run-in. Can't wait. You know, we got the Hulk Hogan trivia contest going on, whatever it is Friday night. That's going to be fun.

Starting point is 02:45:08 By the way, Hulk Hogan is not going to be there. so don't come because that, but we're doing it at Hogan's Hangout, I think, right? Yeah, we're actually going to hook it up at Hogan's Hangout on Thursday, but we've got the full schedule revealed, maybe that's Friday afternoon, whatever it is. We got the full schedule. Friday at 1 o'clock. Well, don't tell everybody who's not on ad-free shows where to go. My God.

Starting point is 02:45:32 Oh, well, no. It's next Friday. Yeah, it's some time in space in the future. we're going to have a lot of fun and we are thrilled that you guys are going to be a part of what we're doing the best place to join man it's where all the fun is happening ad free shows.com we've really built a little community and so many of our folks love to get together and we make that happen on more than one occasion we're going to have two or three of these top guy weekends and we get really really thoughtful and insightful questions like this one

Starting point is 02:46:05 that came in today during our life chat it's uh from our pal josh who has a great question about the rankings. The rankings are back with AEW. He says Tony Kahn has announced the rankings are back. What are your thoughts? I get the win-lose record. But when it's a made-up system, it loses the impact for me personally.

Starting point is 02:46:27 Now, let's sort of reset what we're talking about here. When AEW was first created, they announced that they were going to be rankings. And as a kid growing up, I loved going and getting the after mags and flipping to the back. and seeing who was in the top 10. And then they used to have little segments on WCW TV

Starting point is 02:46:44 where they would run through who the number one contenders for the world champion was. It felt like a college football feel. That's the way I remember it making me feel as a kid. I loved it. I do think it is interesting that we're going to keep up with records and wins and losses matter and all of that was part of the AEW pitch.

Starting point is 02:47:03 But it hasn't been a focal point. And maybe people felt like creatively they were boxed in because they were trying to be beholden to the rankings. But Tony Kahn says it's coming back. What do you think of that, Eric? First of all, Tony, if you're listening and clearly you are, you have one of your surrogates listening, there's a guy in Nashville, I think he still lives in Nashville.

Starting point is 02:47:25 His name is Matt Conway. Call Matt Conway. If Kevin Sullivan, producer, not the Booker, is still answering phone calls from you, call Kevin, get his number. Paul Vince Rousseau and get his number. You can't call him either. Whatever.

Starting point is 02:47:42 Find somebody that knows how to get a hold of Matt Conway and get him integrated into your attempt to make sense and story out of your ranking systems. That was great at it. And when I say that, it's because of the, the, oh, my gosh, what was the October pay-per-view? Oh, Bound for Glory. Bound for Glory. We created the Bound for Glory series, which was a, I think it was a three-month tournament, or three months, three-month, yeah, basically a tournament, but it was based on points and wins.

Starting point is 02:48:19 It can be very effective. It can also see you painting yourself into a corner that you'll never get out of. That's probably why it didn't, work out the first time because you've got to really do a great job of merging creative and math because those two things generally don't go together. Usually good creative is kind of void of good math. Good math isn't very creative. But it can be done. It's a big risk because if it's not going well, everybody will, if there's a flaw in your system, your audience is going to see it and they're going to let you know.

Starting point is 02:49:12 And they're going to lose faith so fast. So I like the idea of doing it. I think it's one of the things that I was excited about back in 2019 when I heard that this was going to be one of the things. This was going to be the unique selling proposition for those of you have spent, I don't know, 45 minutes in a marketing 101, class in junior college, that was the one thing that, to me, made AEW potentially feel different than WWE.

Starting point is 02:49:49 Go again with the controversy equation, Sarsa forming. But they abandoned it pretty quickly. One of the dots that created the pattern that I began to see early on, Bill, you essentially you make a promise to your audience when you launch a brand, your branding statement, your mission statement, call whatever the fuck you want. We are going to be different because we're doing this. And then you get everybody to rally behind you and then you don't do this. You do the same thing they're doing.

Starting point is 02:50:23 It's a big dent. Big dent to decide of that brand new shiny AEW car. Big dent. Kick the door in yourself. But let's see. It can be done, but it's really fucking hard, really hard. And I'm concerned that since there's been a severe lack of creative horsepower in AEW, inconsistent all over the map, non-existent, more often than not, in terms of a real story.

Starting point is 02:50:54 I should say compelling story, meaning story that actually matters. the void comes to creative that I've seen out of AW for the last two years doesn't suggest to me that there's a lot of hope that they're going to figure out that formula if they do it will take somebody like a Matt Conway working with somebody that really understands creative could happen never know I'll hope for the best about rankings and it's in regards to the WWE where are you on the idea that the US title holders should be next in line for the heavyweight title I have not seen that as much these days see you in Tampa I talked about how you know back in

Starting point is 02:51:44 the day used to flip to the back of those after bags or even on WCW TV they would list the top 10 well the number one contender for the world title was always the US champion we don't talk about that very often in W.W.E. land. But if they really do go with L.A. Knight, it'd be a hell of a time to read some life into that story, wasn't it? Yeah. And that's true, right? I mean, one of the things I liked about that kind of inherent structure that even the audience kind of was aware of and bought into that structure is it was just that. It was structure. It was the basic framework for storytelling.

Starting point is 02:52:23 And it involves states. Because if I, when the U.S. Way Championship, I have an opportunity to move on to the greatest title. But before I can do that, I have to do this. There's the beginning of a story, part of it. And they have gotten away from it, as did I in WCW. And I think, I'll just speak for myself. I don't know what's going on WWE. But for me, that was a lot easier when you only had four paper views a year.

Starting point is 02:52:57 That was a lot easier when all you were doing was booking your house shows with four paper views a year and one weekly primetime show. Hell, we weren't even in prime time. We were 6 o'clock Eastern, 3 o'clock Pacific. It just became more difficult. The more pay-per-views you have, you've got to create more stories, you've got to create more stakes. You start compromising your creative or you're compromising your structure in order to accommodate a different creative pressure. So it'll be nice if they go back to it.

Starting point is 02:53:34 It would be absolutely a perfect fit, as you pointed out just now for L.A. Knight. Sense, but aid in his ascension. Let's hope they do it. Let's see what happens. I know I'm looking forward to it. We'll do one last question about today's topic. And, of course, we were trying to talk about how crowded it is

Starting point is 02:53:54 at the top in WWV. Josh has another question about that with wrestlers keeping their careers going longer and longer is this helping or hindering the young talent from thriving. And what's funny to me about this Eric is, as you know, I was dumped a treasure trove of inside information from the good old days. And we are going to be sharing some of that on our YouTube channel in the coming months. But one of the things I got my hands on, and I couldn't believe, it was the deposition from Bill Eadie. And he's talking about how he was transitioning into a spot to become a backstage agent.

Starting point is 02:54:39 And he was in this deposition saying that Vince always took care of the older wrestlers that way. And he listed a bunch of folks, guys like Lanza and Patterson and former top talent inside the ring who now worked in a backstage capacity, we would call them an agent these days, or a producer maybe. But the attorney said, how old are you? And Bill Eady, at the time of the depositions, this is a year or two later, was 45 years old. The idea being that his wrestling career, Lord, it's in the rearview mirror, he's 45 years old.

Starting point is 02:55:18 Now we know, shit, man, half the guys who are in the main event of these pay-per-views are in their 40s or their 50s, or if you're like the Stinger, he's having his last match in a couple of weeks in his 60s. By the way, that show lasts a check completely sold out. Kudos to AEW. But do you think that keeping talent in these top positions longer has hindered the growth? Because whenever that first became common to talk about, boy, they always pointed at you. They talked about how when Rick found out the WWF was going for a year. youth movement and they were going to make Brett Hart, he went back to Atlanta. When it seemed like Hogan's days of the WWF were done, he went to Atlanta.

Starting point is 02:56:03 Allegedly, he told macho man that his best value to the company wouldn't be in the ring, but behind the desk, they were going with youth like Sean Michaels. He went down to Atlanta. Now it feels like whether you're in WW or you're in AEW, guys like Chris Jericho and Sting and Edge and Christian and others, we're skewing a little older. What do you think about that and the narrative that perhaps that is one of the reasons that it's so crowded at the top right now? Wholeheartedly disagree.

Starting point is 02:56:40 I mean, look, I think if I was a young talent or if I was a young talent or if I was a young talent or I was managing a young talent and I don't mean managing on camera a wrestling position I mean managing career wise or being an agent for I think what's changed today is the timeline LA night give me another example there's a perfect example I think what what's required now is the at managing the expectation of young talent breaking. If you look at some of the talent right now in an NXT that's ready to go, they're developing slowly, but the more slowly they develop, experience they get, the more likely it is they're going to be actually successful when they get to the dance.

Starting point is 02:57:42 But you have to manage those expectations. It's not going to happen in your first year or two or three. Maybe if you're an AEW and things are more fast-paced there because it's a new company and different creative approach, sure, maybe that you could go from zero to hero in 60 days. But it won't last. You'll flame out pretty quickly. Whereas I think at WWE, I mean, look at AJ Styles. I just got done saying three hours ago almost that in my opinion, And A.J. Stiles could be the best performer of his career thus far. He's 46. If you stay healthy, as AJ has, I always had some injuries, but I mean overall healthy,

Starting point is 02:58:29 lifestyle health, you stay focused, you stay disciplined. You can easily have a career in this industry, barring serious injuries, into your 40s and 50s. So when you're in your 20s, you've got to go in knowing that. you're not going to you're you're in private pilot school you're learning how to take off and land in a cessna 152 with an instructor at your side you are not going to be flying a Boeing 767 as captain for at least 15 years because you've got to build up the hours in the experience same is true in wrestling i don't think it's why it's so crowded at the top inferring that there's or suggesting that there's a lack of young talent ready to go. There's young talent ready to go. But here's the reality, folks,

Starting point is 02:59:16 for those of you mucker fathers that have never produced a wrestling show in your freaking life, including Dave Meltzer. The value of your talent is the equity that is built into that talent over a period of time in front of a very critical audience and demanding audience that requires credibility. And the only way you get credibility in the wrestling audience's mind is to be there and do it for a long time at a high level. And it, just fucking takes time. It just does. How long did it take Stone Cold Steve Austin

Starting point is 02:59:47 before he went from Steve Williams and stunning Steve and whatever the hell he was, the ringmaster? How long was that period of time between his very first match? Him decided he was going to go to a wrestling school, getting good enough to have a first match in front of people, and then

Starting point is 03:00:03 becoming Stone Cold Steve Austin. I don't know the answer? I'm going to guess it was 10 or 12, 15 years. Eight years from the time he started until he won the strap all right eight years your point close though i mean that you're on the time yeah and if if you're the type of person who's going wow i learned how to drop kick and look at all the fancy shit i can do it i can do cartwheels and all and yeah yeah fucking and you can't cut a promo you don't know how to sell you can't control a crowd you can't do

Starting point is 03:00:33 any of that stuff other than be a gymnastic exhibitionist then and you think that's going to make you a star next year but another career takes time just takes anything that's good takes time about eight years and six months this show is taking three hours and I think it's one of the best shows we've ever done well listen we want to hear from you guys hit us up it's easy to find us on Twitter he is at e bischoff I am at hey hey it's Conrad over on Instagram he is at the real Eric Bischoff I am at hey hey it's Conrad Thompson you can interact with the show and post video questions or anything

Starting point is 03:01:11 sort of questions you've got, Twitter, Instagram, and Facebook. It's always at 83 weeks. But the easiest, cheapest. Best way to support the show, man, hit that subscribe button and be a part of our community page over on our YouTube. It's 83 weeks on

Starting point is 03:01:27 YouTube.com. A lot of the comments that we pulled out today were from that community's page. Join us up at 83 weeks on YouTube. By the way, if your business targets men that are 25 to 54 years old, there's no better place to advertise than right here with us.

Starting point is 03:01:43 Here's some of the same sponsors, weekend, week out, year after year. Why is that? Because it really works. And with our super targeted audience, there's very little waste. Go right now to advertise witheric.com to find out more about how to advertise here on 83 weeks. Be sure to pick up Eric's book over on Amazon. We've got tons of new fun swag for you at box of gimmicks.com.

Starting point is 03:02:05 Or you can check out 83 weeks birch.com. We've got the brand new Cody is. the guy t-shirt. I'm an Eric Bischoff guy. Even I'm an Eric Bischoff gal. We got I'm back and so much more, including the old logo off the Ninja Star throwing shirt. Something for everybody. That's a deep cut for a wrestling fan. 82 weeks. That's the beginning of everything. That shirt right there, the logo on that shirt, Ninja Star Wars game. And literally that game, our efforts to market that game led me to a meeting with Virgana. And that meeting as a result of that shirt or that logo on that shirt change the wrestling industry forever no that's not hyperbole

Starting point is 03:02:47 it's a fact no brag just fact check it out 83 weeks merch dot com eric we went over three hours today thank you for all the time and i got to tell you i'm looking forward my uh my hand i just find myself just gripping i'm getting ready for those tremors i'm getting ready to shave you not i will never bet you again i will never ever ever ever ever make a bet with you you again. This is bullshit. As your dad, Larry would say, it's bullshit. It is bullshit, but accept it. It's a fact. Eric is coming back looking like Lex Luther next week, right here on 83 weeks with Eric Bischoff.

83 Weeks with Eric Bischoff - Episode 306: Top Star Heavy

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