83 Weeks with Eric Bischoff - Episode 334: The Return Of The Hulkster!

Episode Date: August 9, 2024

On this episode 83Weeks, Eric and Conrad take us back 25 years for the return of the Hulk Hogan in the red and yellow! It happened on Monday Nitro in a six man battle with the Hulkster teaming up with Sting and Goldberg to face off against Kevin Nash, Rick Steiner and Sid. The crowd loved it, but did it make a difference for WCW or was it just too late. Eric and Conrad deep dive into that discussion and a ton more on this nearly three hour edition of 83Weeks. Watch along with the guys on Peacock, Nitro 08.09.99 season 5 / episode 31 HOME CHEF - For a limited time, HomeChef is offering my listeners 18 Free Meals PLUS Free Dessert for Life and of course, Free Shipping on your first box! Go to https://www.homechef.com/BISCHOFF. Get 18 Free Meals and Free Dessert for Life! You heard that right! https://www.homechef.com/BISCHOFF. Must be an active subscriber to receive free dessert. VIIA - Try VIIA Hemp! https://bit.ly/viia83 and use code 83WEEKS! GAMETIME - Take the guesswork out of buying tickets with Gametime. Download the Gametime app, create an account, and redeem code WEEKS for $20 off your first purchase (terms apply). Download Gametime today. Last minute tickets. Lowest Price. Guaranteed. BLUECHEW - Try BlueChew FREE when you use our promo code 83WEEKS at checkout--just pay $5 shipping. That’s https://bluechew.com/ , promo code 83WEEKS to receive your first month FREE SAVE WITH CONRAD - Stop throwing your money on rent! Get into a house with NO MONEY DOWN and roughly the same monthly payment at https://www.savewithconrad.com ADVERTISE WITH ERIC - If your business targets 25-54 year old men, there's no better place to advertise than right here with us on 83 Weeks. You've heard us do ads for some of the same companies for years...why? Because it works! And with our super targeted audience, there's very little waste. Go to https://www.podcastheat.com/advertise now and find out more about advertising with 83 Weeks. Join this channel to get access to perks: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCCqQc7Pa1u4plPXq-d1pHqQ/join BECOME A 83 WEEK MEMBER NOW: https://www.youtube.com/@83weeks/membership Get all of your 83 Weeks merchandise at https://boxofgimmicks.com/collections/83-weeks Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Hey, hey, it's Conrad Thompson, and you're listening to 83 weeks with Eric Fischoff. Eric, what's going on, man? How are you? I'm just having a ball, living life. Feels good to be back. It feels like I haven't done this with you in a month, but it's, I missed last week. You guys covered for me off 40th anniversary with my bride, had a great time. But even though it's only been, you know, two weeks, it feels like it's been two months. Well, I'm glad to see that you're with us and we're having some fun today. Congrats to you and Mrs. B on a big anniversary.

You know, I don't know that you and I've ever talked about this, but I think you and Mrs. B's wedding anniversary is around the same time as Megan and I's dating anniversary. August 5th was her and I's first date and the first ever something to wrestle. What day were you and Mrs. B married? August 3rd. Wow. How about that? A lot of fun stuff happening in the first few days of August. We're going to be talking about something else that happened in the dog days of August. We're going to be watching the 1999 Nitro that went down on August 9th. This is just days before Eric takes a sabbatical, we'll call it.

So I thought, why not go back and watch things that are just peak chaos and frustration for Eric Bischoff? I live to make his life a little harder. but before we do that, I do want to get your take on some of the things that have been happening in the wrestling space. There's been lots of news and notes lately. Did you get a chance to catch up

or see or hear anything about SummerSlam 2024? I haven't watched it yet. I do haven't recorded. I've been taking kind of about a month off, I guess, during the middle of the summer. So I haven't really been paying a lot of attention to what's been going on

and haven't seen SummerSlam yet. But I do have it recorded. I do want to be. and watch it. What I've heard about it from the people who I more or less agree with more often than not is that it was a very, very good pay-per-view. But I haven't seen it, so I can't really comment. It was an incredible show. I really enjoyed it. Lots of great story. I think you'll dig that. Roman Raines is back. That's the big headline when it's all said and done. I got a little heat about that. Evidently,

You and I have been talking about SummerSlam a week or two before the event. And I think you asked me whether or not it was the right time to bring Roman back or is it too soon. And evidently I responded that I think they should wait a little bit longer and take advantage of the absence, makes the heart grow fonder factor, let that build and build and then bring them back. And evidently, Roman came back and got an amazing reaction that I haven't seen yet. And it worked out pretty well. But the question, you know, the heat that I got was, you were wrong again. They brought Roman back and he blew the roof off. I didn't suggest that bringing him back wouldn't be successful.

Just my point of view is, and perhaps, and we'll never know, it could have been even bigger of a reaction had we let that tea brew just a little bit longer. Anyway, but I did hear it was a phenomenal reaction. I kind of agreed with you that maybe we should wait a little longer because I felt like the first time we would see Roman come back would first be with Heyman coming back. That wasn't the way they did it. But seriously, anytime Roman's back, I mean, that's a good thing. You know that he's going to bring eyeballs and intrigue and interest and it's a net positive anytime Romans on your screen. But I do want to ask, like, don't you just assume? when you saw that, hey, they're going to do war games in Atlanta at Survivor Series?

I mean, just hearing war games in November, doesn't that make you think, okay, it's going to be new bloodline versus old bloodline? Yeah, it's on brand. Yeah. It's like the title of the event was created for their story. Yes. And, yeah, that's another reason. But, look, it worked.

It was hugely successful. I'm sure from a financial point of view, we're going to be reading about even more records. being broken because WWE tends to make a habit of that on a monthly basis but again it's always like what if what if they would have waited a little while longer what if but yeah

either way it worked but I agree with you man some brand one other thing I want to mention to you just because I know there's some some fingerprints of yours on there way in the rearview mirror the show had a lot of great matches seven good matches at SummerSlam

in my opinion the match times went from 29 minutes, 16 minutes, 17 minutes, 12 minutes, 15 minutes, and then one stuck out amongst all the rest, five minutes and 40 seconds. That's how long it took for Braun Breaker to become the Intercontinental Champion at the hands of Sammy Zane. And at my house, everybody was looking around like, wow, that was fast. And on the one hand, we were really happy for Rick Steiner and Scott Steiner and certainly

Braun Breaker and their whole family. What a cool thing that is. And to see the shot of the legends box with DDP and Kevin Nassie. Nash and Sean Waltman and the Steiner brothers all celebrating. It was a cool moment. But it did make me scratch my head and say, well, where does this leave Sammy? Like if they're getting back the OG bloodline, you got to think Sammy's going to be involved in that story.

And how big is that pop going to be when that happens? I so hope you're right. And listen to you, lay that out. It makes sense, right? I could see it happening. One of the things that got, go ahead, bro. No, go ahead. I was just saying one of the things that got me so,

I would say the one moment that I would rate as the, the moment that got me really, I'll say more interested, but really just put over the whole bloodline story in the depth of it, and the discipline and the detail in that story, and how they use that story to elevate so many different people. I mean, the people that were over became moreover, And people that were maybe on the margins, all of a sudden became superstars as a result of a storyline.

So just so much respect for that. But Sammy Zane, for some reason, well, the reason is his performance made that storyline so much more enjoyable to me. I loved his performance. You know, he wasn't the star. You know, that was Roman's gig, right? But he added so much to that storyline that once I saw him coming involved in his, the intensity of his performance is increased over time. It's like, damn, I've always had respect for him, but he really reached a whole new level. So I hope you're right, because I want to see more of that.

I want to see more of that, Sammy. I'm excited to see more of that, Sammy. And I'm excited to see what's next for WWE. It feels like they've got a lot of momentum right now. I'm really interested in a lot of their cool stories and there's a lot of folks that are still on the sidelines that I can't wait to see how they fit into the mix. Meanwhile, on the other channel, man, they are home stretching it as we get ready for Wembley Stadium and all in as you and I are recording. It is a Thursday morning and just last night at the ripe young age of whatever it is because we won't say it out loud. Jeff Jarrett, main evented live on primetime television against Brian Danielson,

a wrestler that he considered to be at the top of his game, one of the very best, if not the very best in the world when it comes to telling stories. I don't know if you had a chance to see that, but boy, how much are you enjoying this career resurgence of Jeff Jarrett in 2024? I did watch it. I caught all but the first 15 minutes of the show. So I was just, I watched it this morning. Actually, I recorded it last night and watched it this morning.

It, I'm just so impressed. Jeff is just, I mean, I want to be careful how I say this because everybody knows that, you know, Jeff and I are friends and all part of the same network here. So I don't want this to sound like I'm putting him over. just because of that. Aside from all that, aside from my history with Jeff, is there anybody better a veteran at this point in time?

He hasn't seemed to have lost really too much. He's a little slower. It takes just a hair longer to get from point A to point Z. But man, so impressed. Here's my only comment. And this is selfish. This is just,

being a bitch. It was a hardcore match for all, you know, rules, false count anywhere, whatever the rules. I can't remember. It's nonsense. It's kind of more or less a hardcore match. Jeff is so good. One of the best in my opinion in my peer group, you know, over the past 30 years of being in the industry or having been in.

I think Jeff, he's not the best. He's in the top five, in my opinion, when it comes to. Being able to lay out a story in the ring that parallels the story that got him to the ring. Yes. A lot of times you'll see a story, let's say the premise is revenge. But the match you get, even though there's a story in the match, the story in the match doesn't necessarily reflect the story that got the match made. Does that make sense? Yeah.

Jeff, on the other hand, is really, really good at. laying out a match in the story within a match that's consistent with the character and the angle that launched it. And when I worked at T&A, and Jeff and I were close during the T&A time, I mean, we weren't unfriendly. It wasn't like we had heat or anything like that, but we didn't talk a lot. Jeff had his own thing going on at that point in time. He wasn't really as involved in TNA as some people might think he was during that time,

because of some of those issues. And I'm talking about conflict with Dixie and all kinds of drama. So I didn't really get to work closely with Jeff on a creative level at that time. But there was a certain point in time when Jeff came back, the issues with Dixie and he, whatever they work, because I didn't even really want to know. I didn't want to get sucked into that vacuum of drama. So I, you know, I didn't ask any questions. I stayed away from it as best I could.

But Jeff came back and I started leaning on Jeff in production meetings because that was something that T&A desperately needed is matches that really told the story and matches that were consistent with the characters and the story that preceded the actual physical match. And I tag Jeff in and man, he's so good. He's so freaking good. And I wished that match that I watched between he and Brian Deionisson, I would have. I would have liked it to be more of a traditional match that really showcases not only Jeff's amazing abilities, but Brian's as well. They're both so good at that, that I would have wanted to kind of have that be my signature match on Dynamite if I was Brian or Jeff, as opposed to a hardcore match, which really doesn't give you the opportunity to appreciate what they're really capable of doing. we appreciated their toughness you know they're conditioning both of them

you know that's a lot of work you're covering a lot of ground you're working pretty hard but you've seen what pointed that out correctly but it didn't really showcase what they're the best at so there's my two sets

I enjoyed it but I too kind of thought and hoped that it would be a more traditional wrestling match I wanted Jeff to be able to show what he can do but maybe perhaps I mean I don't know I wasn't there What do I know? But I feel like Brian Danielson has been checking a lot of boxes this year. Like if he really does think this is going to be his last year as a full-time wrestler,

wrestling in Arena Mexico, wrestling in the Tokyo Dome, wrestling at Wembley Stadium, I almost wonder with the benefit of hindsight, do you think maybe Brian Danielson wanted to have an old-school Memphis brawl? You know, because that was something that they were famous for. And I know that the show was in Winston-Salem, but I know one time last year, I think it was that was like a brawl on Bill Street with Jeff.

And I know a lot of people really appreciated that Memphis-style brawling. But, man, I wanted to see big drop kicks and Inzy Gehries and the Jeff Jarrett special. And I think they checked all the boxes last night. I'm super happy for my friend Jeff and really enjoyed that match. And I'm excited for what's next. I don't know if you've heard, but there's a campaign brewing. Somehow now Taylor Swift is involved with about trying to get Hangman Adam. Page and Jeff Jarrett in a match at Wembley Stadium.

There's even a song where they're calling Tony Tony Khan a coward if he doesn't book it. Have you heard about this movement to get Jeff on the Wembley show? No, but I love it. I don't know if it's true or not true, but it's a fun thought. No, it's a real thing. Like, let's play the song. Hey, Tony Kong, you coward, book Charot versus Hangman Page.

Hey, Tony Kong, you coward, make Wembley stay in the stage. Jeff's been shown such disrespect over the line that anxious Cowboys stepped. Tom Campbell's best friend must make things right in Wembley Stadium on a Sunday night. Keep me all in crowd, all breathless, with a great British guitar necklace. Hey, Tony Kong, you, Cowher, book, Jared versus Hangman Page. Hey, Tony Call, you coward, book, Jared versus Hangman Page. all right i mean it's pretty where who how who is that who produced that tom campbell over across the pond put that together of course he's Jeff Jarrett's self-proclaimed

best friend but no kidding that song caught on so well that uh Taylor Swift's people have reached out to Jeff Jarrett's people to see if she can cover it because Taylor Swift's going to be in Wembley stadium the night before doing a concert so I don't know what that means but stay tuned stay tuned that is the craziest shit I love this see this is

this is fun it is fun it is and this is fun shit so I'll be watching closely with bated breath well we hope you're watching along with us

we're going to be watching a fun episode Kelsey do a run in that's what I said it's this is where like he-haw meets wrestling. I love it. If Travis Kelsey's there wearing a cowboy hat, come on now. We're going to be watching an episode of Nitro that you don't want to miss.

The Hulkster brother is coming back in the red and yellow and not too long after this. Eric's going to hit the old dusty trail. But before he does, join us here for Season 5, episode 31 on Peacock. Go to Peacock. That's a streaming network, by the way. And be sure to type in Nitro. Then you'll go to Season 5, Episode 31. That's Season 5, Episode 31.

But hey, before we get going, I just want to throw this out there. As men, how often do we dread that? What should we do for dinner question? I know I do. And sometimes we inevitably wind up ordering takeout. It's just a lot easier in our household, but you wind up spending too much money. You're not eating as well. Home Chef is here.

to make it easy and save you money. Home Chef provides fresh ingredients and chef-designed recipes conveniently delivered to your doorstep to simplify your cooking experience. Whether you prefer classic meal kits with pre-portioned ingredients and easy instructions, speedy recipes ready in less than 30 minutes,

oven-ready kits with pre-chopped ingredients, or just quick microwave meals that assemble in minutes, Home Chef has you and the entire family covered for delicious meals without the hassle. Home Chef has over 30 options. a week and serves a variety of dietary needs. You don't have to worry about what to make ahead of time. You see, not only is it more convenient, it's also more economical, too.

Home Chef customers save an average of $86 per month on groceries. I should also mention that Home Chef has a delicious kid-friendly family menu with 18 new options each week. It's picky eater approved. Takes the stress out of dinner time. And for a limited time, Home Chef is offering our listeners 18 free meals. plus free dessert for life. That's right, for life.

And of course, free shipping on your first box. Go right now to homecheft.com slash bischoff. That's homechef.com slash bischoff for 18 free meals and free dessert for life. You heard that right. Homechef.com slash bischoff. Of course, you must be an active subscriber to receive free dessert. Dude, how fun is this? Taking the stress out of meal prep and free dessert.

third for life. Come on. It's the Eric Bischoff special. If we should get Neil Pruitt to tag a right, right. Here's the cool thing. Now, I'm at this stage of my life, I'm not under the same kind of schedule pressure that I used to be. But when I was slamming and jamming, when I was like so many people are today, working

10, 12, 16 hours a day sometimes, a lot of times you just don't have time to eat well. And when you get home, the last thing you want to do, even if you have a refrigerator full of good stuff waiting to be prepared and turned into a dinner, you're not in the mood. So what do you do? By default, you're going to eat or eat or some other version of having some fast food delivered to your house,

which is absolutely the worst thing in the world you could possibly do to yourself. Stuff is poison. Don't eat it. Find an alternative like home chef that's already there for you. All you've got to do is eat it up. We're talking minutes. You can have an entire nutritious, delicious, delicious meal in the time it takes your Uber Eats guy to drive from wherever he or she was and go pick up whatever it is you ordered from fast food and then drive it to your house.

You'd have already been done. and more importantly, you wouldn't have eaten the toxic garbage that they charge you an arm and a leg for in fast food restaurants. Okay, I'm going to get off my soapbox now. Do the right thing. Home Chef.com forward slash. Bischoff. Check it out.

Homechef.com forward slash bischoff. So listen, we're going to be watching a very special episode of Nitro. It went down season five, episode 31. It's way back on August 9th, 1990. But before we do that, Eric, I don't know that you had a chance to see this. But Monday night, I did something I'm pretty doggone proud of. We sat down with Lex Lugar, and we talked about SummerSlam 1993. Yes, that SummerSlam.

The one where just days before, he body slammed Yoko Zuna on the USS Intrepid with the skyline of Manhattan in the backdrop. he was the narcissist and five days later he became our real American hero if you will and boy did we discover a lot this was an exclusive conversation

for Lex Express over at ad-free shows.com and I can't wait for you to see this clip Eric. Oh, you got a clip, good. You were the Hollywood guy worked in the movies, everything. Yeah. What do you mean? I'm winning the belt. Why are we doing this? I go, well they're setting it up for many

WrestleMania in the spring, but I go, I'm not winning the belt. He goes, he was definitely, he was not only devise, he goes, well, I don't know a lot about wrestling, but he goes, I know a lot about entertainment. And he goes, he goes, if you don't win that belt, a summer send, he goes, your career is over. Wow. He goes, you're dead in the water. He goes, did you get this kind of buildup in the crowds we've had and you don't come through?

He goes, your career is over. He goes, you're dead. I was thinking that as the balloons are coming out of the scene, and I go, maybe somebody's out letting the air out of the tires and the bus in the parking lot and the balloons are coming down. I go, and my PR guy's voice was ringing in my ears. Your career is over. You're getting the water.

He said, fortunately he was wrong, Conrad, but he said, you'll never, you'll never endure that kind of let down. Those fans get revved up for something like this. People entertain business, he goes, and you don't come through. Right. I work with movie scripts because, man, you're dead. Your career's over. I found myself as I'm watching that clip.

I'm going, but last, Lex, Lex, that was awesome. I can't wait to see it. Dude, it's one of the best interviews I've ever done. I mean, he told us how much he made for being on that bus. Because I think a lot of people remember, the Lex Express was sort of spoofing maybe a political campaign. And after a big run as a heel, he's making dates. all over the country. He's not working live events. He's not doing house shows. He is at all TVs. But otherwise, man, he's doing a crazy schedule of morning radio on multiple stations,

morning television, an autograph signing, midday television, another autograph signing, afternoon drive radio, evening television, and then go eat dinner, work out, do it again. He did that for six weeks. Which shoehorn television appearances in there for actual Monday Night Raw and Superstars tapings. But he did that for six weeks, Eric. Do you want to know? Because I asked the questions. Hey, I'm not asking for a number.

But were you still getting paid? Because this is before guaranteed money contracts. So I just assumed that, hey, he's not on the live events. He's still getting paid. Do you want to guess how much he made for making those six weeks worth of bus appearances in media? I absolutely. I couldn't even take a guess, but I'm dying to know.

zero Eric he made zero dollars all that and more including the summer slam payoff was it really a hulk hogan spot how did it feel the night he lost that title or lost that opportunity at the title to think just four years later he would beat hogan in the same building at nitro 100 to win the big gold belt we discussed oh i can wait to listen to this show go check it out one of the best interviews we've ever done and it's only at adfree shows dot com it starts at just nine bucks a month. There's more than 100,000 hours worth of content. You'll get exclusive series like Lex Lugar every month, along with the Godfather and Mike Keota and Nick Patrick and Tully Blanchard and Sam Adonis and David Crockett and on and on

it's all at adfree shows dot com. Without further ado, Eric, let's get to it, man. Season 5, episode 31, I'm locked and loaded, ready to watch Nitro from August 9, 1999. Are you ready on your end? I am indeed. Let's do a little countdown.

and we'll get going in three, two, one, play. Starting with a recap of what's been going on last week. We see Miss Madness, who we know is the real life Molly Holly. That's probably what we know our best has. Man, what a scene that is. Randy Savage, big as a house, and in the ring with the one and only mean Gene Overland. Getting a little bit of trash talk from the week.

before. There's Dennis Rodman. Oh, Miss Madden is turned on him. So Dennis Rodman coming back into WCW. We know what a big deal it was and a coup it was when he showed up on uncensored 97. Uncensored 97 actually had more pay-per-view buys than WrestleMania that year, WrestleMania 13. And a lot of that was because of the hype of the NWO, but maybe some of that was intrigue over Dennis Rodman. And we know that we would see Dennis Rodman wrestle in a big tag team match in 1998 of Hulk Hogan and Diamond Dallas page. But he's back here in 99 as we're getting ready for Roadwild. He's going to be programmed with the macho man Randy Savage. There's been a lot said out there that perhaps WCW wasn't

thrilled with his game day performance prior to this. And maybe he was upset with his rate of pay. So WCW as a make good books him one more time. Is that narrative correct? Have you heard that before? What really happened with Dennis Rodman? I've never heard that narrative before. There was never any heat between Dennis Rodman and me or anybody in WCW. There was an accounting issue that needed clarification. It got clarified. There was never any heat.

This was not a make good. Nobody was disappointed at any of his previous performances. I can't imagine where this narrative started. Yes, I can't. But it's typical. Just mindless dreams. We should talk about the show here as we're seeing the cat's ass open, I think is what you call it. I love that.

We got 7,171 paying fans here at the Idaho Center in Boise, Idaho. The gate is $141,203. You know, we don't spend a lot of time talking about Boise, Idaho. Did you consider Boise a WCW town? No, but it was routed on our way to Sturge. So it made sense. I think where do we get? We might have landed in Boise and then worked our way.

No, I think we started in Denver. Yeah, we started in Denver, I believe. And then we worked our way up to Boise and then we worked her way across. Stopped in Wyoming. Had everybody over at the house. Oh, wow. A house full of. Rasslers.

Rasslers on motorcycles. Actually had a really great time. And, of course, the city of Cody was kind of confused where all these, you know, 250-pound rustlers are all of a sudden arriving in Cody and nobody knew it was going to happen. But we had a blast, and then we made, then we went on to Sturgis. So it was a routing issue. We're always going to more than double this nitro in six of the eight quarters. It's going to do a 6.36 rating and a 10.2 share. Meanwhile, Nitro does a 3.11 and a 5.1 share over the head-to-head two hours, because this is.

This is very much the three-hour era of Nitro. Broaded a 6.32 rating, and Nitro did a 2.85. The biggest gaps in the head-to-head shows involve Jesse Ventura, who's back getting ready to be a special guest referee, the third man in the ring for the main event of SummerSlam 99. Alongside Sean Michaels and Triple-AIDS, that whole segment does a 6.87, and it nearly triples what WCW is doing, which does a 2.25 for what,

was the probably best wrestling match on the program. It's Ray Mysterio, tagging up with Eddie Guerrero to take on Chris Adams and Dave Taylor. This is, you know, it's interesting because sometimes I feel like in this era, the Monday Night Wars era, WCW had the more compelling stories. And other times I felt like WCW had the better in-ring wrestling. The narrative in the newsletters at the time was that the WWF main events tended to deliver better than WCW main events, but that the undercard for WCW was much stronger.

From your perspective, would you agree with that? Did you feel like your undercard was a lot stronger than the WWF presentation at the time? I think looking back at it now, I would probably agree with that perspective. I wasn't thinking about it that way back then. I was just trying to produce the best show that we could,

and I wasn't really comparing my undercard to WCard to WWE's undercard necessarily. But now looking back, and I think that that's probably true, as is the critique or criticism of the WWE made events feeling being bigger, better than WCW made events from an execution perspective. Which takes me back to something that you've been hearing we talk about for six point some odd years now.

WCW had finishitis. They could just not build a great finish. The one person, the one individual, people have asked me over the years, if there was one person from WWE that you could have brought in that you think would have made the biggest difference, who would that be? Would it be Sean Michaels? Would it be the Undertaker? Who would it be?

It would have been Paterson. That's what Pat was so magnificent at. It's he people, until you've been in a. creative position for an extended period of time and had the perspective of both marginal success, if not mediocrity, maybe failure, and be able to contrast that with just a high degree of success where it feels like every note you hit in a story is the absolute perfect note. And when you've had both of those perspectives, you're you really begin to learn to appreciate the art of storytelling,

whether that be a finish or the written word. And that's what Pat had. And that's an instinct. It's a combination, I believe, of just innate talent, instinct, like some people just are born to be great swimmers or violinists or basketball players or engineers. Some people are just born with gifts. And I think there are people like Paterson was

who just not only had the experience as a performer, but a gift to be able to see in his head a way to structure the finish of a match or the match itself, primarily in past case finish, to do it in a way in his mind, he could see the emotion that each beat of that finish is going to create and how to suck greatest amount of emotion you possibly could out of each and every moment during the course of a finish.

He was so good at that. And I think that's the reason that I, to the state, when I look back and say, if there's one thing that really you couldn't overcome in terms of what WWE was greatest at, what would that be? And it would be finishes. just WCW never had a feel whether it was during my era because I leaned heavily on cliffhangers that was my go-to and it worked for a long time until it didn't because it got repetitive it no longer felt the same it didn't create the same emotion so it became less effective

over time but Pat always had the ability WWE always had the ability and everybody else in the process to really create drama and just like we heard Lex talking about, you know, the Hollywood PR person's a way to deliver on the emotion that people were expecting. Maybe overdelivered. Sorry, didn't mean to go off on a tangent, but I think there's such a critical part of what we see today in the difference between what's good and what's bad and, you know, listen to everybody's uneducated, just personal opinions about what they like and don't like. But to me, the things that work consistently, that build businesses, that build careers,

that build brands, is great storytelling. And we're seeing it play out. I mean, this is WCW circa 1999. It's in August. I was sent home on September 10th. So this is, for me, this is the gutter of my experience as the showrunner, producer, whatever, of Nitro. This, to me, was my gutter. And we're still, how many people were in the arena?

$7,100, $100,000, $100,000 house. $141.141. Adjusted for inflation, that's a lot. Yeah. And what did dynamite do last night? About 2,500 people. Couldn't even do 3,000 people. Maybe 700,000 people will watch.

Maybe. Yeah, Tony still wants to compare. Oh, come on now. EW. Did I'm lying? I'm just saying we're talking about nitro. We ain't got to make everything. All right.

All right. I'm trying to put things into context. Sure, sure, sure. Putting things into convention versus now. Well, here's something I wanted to talk to you about. We're watching a six-man tag. And we've got a power plant special here in Lash, LaRue. What a great inspirational story he is.

in real life kid from Gadsden, Alabama, who was sleeping in his car, chased his wrestling dream, went to the power plant, and now he's on TV live, tagging with Norman Smiley and your favorite personal wrestler of all time, Prince Ikea. It's a six-man tag team as they're taking on Vampiro and the Insane Clown Posse. We know that Vampiro was a megastar in Mexico once upon a time, and we know that he had a on again, off-again, relationship with Conan. But I've always been under the impression that you're sort of leading. liaison to Japan became Sonnyono and perhaps your liaison to Mexico was Conan.

How does Vampiro come into the mix? Is that a Conan call or something else? I believe it was Conan. It could have been Terry Taylor. But if I had to bet money, well, it could have been Kevin Sullivan as well. So I'm not 100% sure. That'll be a great Kevin Sullivan question. I would assume, just based on the structure of things and ebb and flow of relationships that probably would have been Conan. Talk to me about Insane Clown Posse. We've spent a little bit of time talking about how you put the Kiss deal together. Obviously, Kiss is a mainstream opportunity and act.

We know that you had another opportunity once upon a time with Master P and the No Limit soldiers. But the Insane Clown Posse were kind of underground artists that certainly had some buzz and a super loyal following, but perhaps not nearly as mainstream as a Master P or certainly not kiss, but they're huge wrestling fans. How did ICP come to join WCW and what was your experience like with Shaggy 2Dope and Violent J? I loved working with those guys, which is really kind of odd if you think about it. I mean, if you look at them, their performances, their brand, who they are, who their audiences,

and then you saw a picture of me, you wouldn't, you get now those, what two things don't go? together. Oh, those two things. But I actually enjoyed working with them. They were just bizarre enough to be entertaining and interesting to me. Their way that they connected and cultivated to this day, by the way, a very, very loyal audience. Is their audience as big as kiss? No. Are they as loyal? If there's a way to measure that, I would say probably more so. Yeah. I agree. So I found them really interesting. How it came together, again, I'm not. I'm not. Not 100% clear, but I'd bet on Kevin Sullivan on that one.

This podcast is supported by Talkspace. When my husband came home from his military deployment, readjusting was hard for all of us. Thankfully, I found Talkspace. Talkspace provides professional support from licensed therapists and psychiatric providers online. Military members, veterans, and their dependents ages 13 and older can get fast access to providers,

all from the privacy of their computers or smartphones. I just answered a few questions online, and TalkSpace matched me with a therapist. We meet when it's convenient for me, and I can message her anytime. It was so easy to set up, and they accept TRICARE. Therapy was going so well, my husband and I started seeing a couple's therapist through Talkspace, too. Talkspace works with most major insurers, including TRICARE. Match with a licensed therapist today at Talkspace.com slash military. Go to Talkspace.com slash military to get started today.

That's talkspace.com slash military. I know they're big wrestling fans. At this point, they'd already been in ECW a year prior. They were a big part of the WWF's summer opportunity. Allegedly, they were told over and over and over. They would get commercial time on Monday Night Raw, and it just never happened. So they stopped taking time off touring and away from their family

and said, you know what, maybe that's enough. But somehow they get this opportunity to be here on Nitro as a part of WCW. And we actually had Violent J on ad-free shows a couple of months ago. And he told the story of being on the apron there. He didn't mention that they were tagging with Vampiro, I don't think. But he mentioned standing on the apron next to Shaggy Too Doep. And they're both looking at each other like, can you believe we're on Nitro? Like they were such big fans.

And I think that's a story that I like to hear when some of the quote-unquote celebrities are outsiders who come into the wrestling game. They're just big fans. Can you believe we're on Nitro? Like, they were as thrilled as a fan might be to have this opportunity. I think that's a really fun story. It is. And, you know, I run across guys once or twice a year.

We'll cross pass at a convention or something. Such classy guys. I mean, really super guys. Can't say enough good things about it. I mean, the stuff they did in the ring was crazy. It's borderline, right? It made me pretty nervous. Not going to lie.

wasn't the easiest situation to manage, not going to lie, but I would do it over again several times a year if I had the opportunity because I loved working with them. And they brought it. They brought, and that's the thing, you know, how would you bring in, you know, guys like that into wrestling? Because you're bringing in an audience that otherwise is not even going to sample your product. That's right.

That's why you do it. And you hope that a percentage of them are going to enjoy the experience enough to stick around till next time. That's why you do it. And to the extent that you can measure success of bringing in an act like talking about here, absolutely. Huge success. Huge success. Because I guarantee a lot of that audience would not have been checking out Nitro otherwise. I can't believe this is real, but Violent J just hit a moonsault and pin lash the roo. How fun is that? How cool is that? Raven's here with the face. He was the Logan Paul of WCD.

He was a Logan Paul of Nitro. He's going to be so happy to hear you say that. Hey, I want to ask you about, you know, what we're watching here is, is WCW on the downhill slope? You know, at September or rather, it's August of 1999. We're just days away from a paper view that a lot of fans sort of roll their eyes at, Road Wild. And we know we're only a month away from you piecing out WCW going fishing. And we're seeing right now WCW performers on the cover, a TV guide, Kevin Nash, Sting, Kimberly Page, Randy Savage, big stars here, but a big opportunity. And I know a lot of you are our younger listeners are like, hey, what the hell is a TV guide?

Well, back before we all had DVRs and we could just press a button on our television and it would tell us exactly what was coming on and when. You looked in the newspaper and then somebody came up with the idea, what if we printed like a little guide for everything that was. on every channel. And boy, did that work. It had a bigger distribution than any newspaper in the country. So being on the cover of TV Guide was a big coup for WCW. But in this era, as you saw, Sting, Randy Savage, Kevin Nash, but Kimberly Page, I'm trying to be ugly, but I'm wondering, was there any heat over one of the ladies, a Nitro girl, getting that cover spot, instead of one of the boys? no i mean i'm not suggesting that it wasn't somebody walking around going what about me

because you know it's human nature um but nobody no i mean any thinking person would understand the why yeah and not take it personally and as far as the unthinking people or those have a limited thought process or offended or felt i don't know otherwise respected, could have cared less, actually. Before we got going with the in-ring action, it was announced that Sting had given up control of WCW. He had given control back to WCW. So as a result, it's announced that Dusty Rhodes is going to be in charge of the

Championship Committee and that J.J. Dillon is put in charge of the executive committee. Of course, this is all storyline, but we're seeing backstage now, The Revolution, which is Dean Malinko, Perry Saturn, Shane Douglas, and Chris Benoit, campaigning with Dusty Roads. And in the background, who else? David Flair, with his storyline on-camera girlfriend, Tori Wilson, in the backstage area. And for his trouble, David Flair gets a little crippler crossface right there in the backstage area. Hey, I wanted to bring this up because this is an interesting show for a lot of reasons. not only is it the return of Hulk Hogan to the red and yellow,

but it's also Tony Chivani's return to TV. In this era, Wade Keller had reported that he was expected to return to his play-by-play role on next week's Nitro. Of course, that's this week that we're watching. And it was written, much to the dismay of several wrestlers who felt Scott Hudson was doing a great job. It's written here by Wade. There's no logical explanation for Chivani's three-week,

involuntary hiatus other than Bischoff felt Chivani needed a few weeks away to recharge his batteries. The angle on Nitro this week was supposed to see Mike Tenei refused to come out to replace Hudson because he feared for his safety, and Bischoff would prove how brave he was by taking Hudson's place despite the risk of being attacked. The way the storyline is playing out, though, neither Hudson nor Chivani looked good. It appears Hudson got beat up once and decided to walk away. meanwhile it appears Chivani survives only because unlike Hudson he doesn't speak his mind about heel wrestlers what do you make about all this

I mean Tony Chivani has told us that you were just at the edge of frustration and were frustrated with his look you were frustrated with Tony's weight gain didn't feel like he was television ready what was the real reason that Tony was off TV for three weeks and now randomly he's back

I think Tony's perspective was far more accurate than Wake Ellers. That's put it that way. It makes sense. Makes sense. You know, I was, look, a lot of us were under stress. I wasn't the only one. Right. There were a lot of people, including Tony, maybe especially Tony, in many ways,

because Tony worked so hard and was so committed and was frustrated like we all were. but Tony had to be on camera. And it shows sometimes. And I, you know, it's, it's television. Vision is a big part of it. Being telegenic, looking professional is an important part. If you're going to be front and center and you're going to be on camera, as much as people are on camera, then you have a responsibility to look as good as you can look.

It doesn't mean you have to look like a model. or be perfect than any, but you have to look professional, you have to dress professional, and more importantly, you have to have a certain level of energy that camouflages whatever personal issues you've got going on.

You've got to bring it in the form of energy. And there was a point in time when Tony didn't. And thinking back at the way I approached challenges and issues at the time, especially this particular time in August of 99, I could see me saying, go home, lose 15 pounds, come back when you're feeling good. You know, I could see me doing that.

It would have been consistent, which, by the way, probably would be similar to my approach today. If someone, look, and I say this fully admitting some of the most embarrassing things that I see on TV are me allowing myself to be on camera. when I wasn't ready, I looked like crap, I was overweight, I wasn't taking care of myself. And I'm really embarrassed by some of that because it's not that I'm embarrassed about necessarily the way I look. I'm embarrassed at the fact that I didn't prepare myself as a professional and maintain myself as a

professional the way I should have with respect to the opportunity I was giving, given. So I'm not saying, I'm not being judgmental from a perspective of I would never allow myself to do that, you know, be on camera and not bring the energy or maybe not look as good as I need to look. Because I've done it and I'm embarrassed by it. And I probably would have pointed it up back then. We got to point out that we're watching the public enemy in their second matchback in WCW. They had a cup of coffee in the WWF that ended in March of 99. They came back just a few days prior to this at a WCWCW Saturday night taping. This is their first Nitro appearance back.

They are, of course, friends of Kevin Sullivan. I'm sure that's how they got the opportunity again. Super overacted in ECW. I had some time here in WCW. Tried their hand in the WWF. Didn't exactly go how they thought. Now they're back in WCW. One of those great, what could have been, to me, this tag team here.

But I wanted to talk to you about Kerr Henning. Because if you watched his entrance with the sound on, you would realize, hey, wait a minute, they're not using the typical entrance music they've been using for the West Texas rednecks here. That was actually starting to get over. They're out here and there rap his crap world tour shirts and things like that. But we change the entrance once it starts to get over. But we're adamant that we want them on TV because it is getting over. for instance it said that Kurt Henning here didn't even want to wrestle this match he's hurt his knee and if you go back and you watch the footage when he's trying to pull

himself up in the corner and he's really struggling he's walking around gingerly but it was even in the newsletters he was begging not to work because the knee was so banged up but we were promised hey no we'll keep it short we'll make it a short match for you and Barry to go out there and wrestle the public enemy and they do they only go three minutes and 58 seconds. I appreciate wanting to keep the momentum. Certainly we could have tagged somebody else, but he's asked to just, hey, keep it short.

What do you remember about rap is crap and the West Texas rednecks and how it was getting over and all that jazz? Well, it was getting over. I think it would have gotten even more over. If the West Texas rednecks would have come along in 1996, did late 1996, well, late 1996, anytime in 1997 or early 1998,

it would have had the angle, the story of the brand, would have had an opportunity to really, really get over. Unfortunately, the West Texas Rednecks came at a time when WCW and Nitro was circling the drain. So it didn't really have the opportunity to be all it could be. Unfortunate. As far as the backstory with Kurt in a knee, I'm not going to say I remember any of these conversations.

However, anybody that would have come to me, especially someone that I knew, liked and respected as much as Kurt Hennig, where to come to me and say, I can't work tonight, I don't want to blow my knee up or I don't want to make it worse. There's not a scenario that I can accept that would have seen me do anything other than say,

okay, that's fine. You can talk to anybody you want to in the 30 years that I was active in the wrestling business, the last 10 of which was being in charge of shit, that would tell you that I've ever asked, demanded, coerced, or manipulated somebody into working hurt. Oftentimes, I would not let them work. if I heard they were hurt and they refused to admit it to me.

So to suggest that I, at least, you know, turn my back on curse, you know, requests and, you know, him begging is the word, you know, not to be in the match. I'm throwing a flag on that one. You know, you mentioned how timing is everything and that if this whole rap is crap and West Texas redneck's thing had gotten hot in 96 or 90s. or even 98, it would have been much bigger. I totally agree. And I wanted to ask you because I felt that, and we didn't get to it, but I felt that watching Vampiro a few minutes ago. I wondered, boy, if he would have come to WCW in 1995,

when things, before things got really hot and he could get established, I think that look and that presentation in 95 would have been huge. And then the evolution of 1996 where WCW inherently gets darker with the NWO and Crow Sting and things like that. I think Vampiro could have been a much bigger star here in America had he come into WCW just a few years prior. Have you ever thought about that? Where do you land on that?

Let's think about that scenario, though. Let's say that Vampiro came in in 1995, early 1996. We don't see the Sting Crow character until 1998, right? No, you saw it in 97. Late 96, he's in the rafters. So here's the point. Okay, timing was wrong on my part. But Vampiro comes in first.

He's there for six months before we see Crow Sting. Would that have that impacted Crow Sting? In other words, there's such a similarity. They're not identical. And one was, nobody's ripping anybody off. But if you go back and look at Vampiro's character, the way he appeared in the ring, his look and his gimmick to, Prosting, I think that would have taken away from Crosting.

I don't know that in 95 he was doing the dark presentation. Okay. Then, if not, and he didn't have that kind of skeletor gimmick. Yeah. If not, then absolutely. Absolutely. I just think he was a very unique performer. You know, that's, I often think about, especially when it comes to musicians, you know,

performers who were just so far up and above their peers. You know, what makes them so special? And almost inevitably, all of them have something that is really, really unique to them, whether it's a style, you know, I love it, an example. You know, certainly not the greatest showman in the world. You know, not the best-looking performers. He's not like a, you know, hot country act, you know, that brings the part. party to the table, just got an amazingly unique voice and musical style.

Stevie Nix, same thing, very unique style. And I think the same thing is true with wrestlers. The ones that don't look like just another version of everybody else that bring something really unique to the table, that by the way, connects, resonates with the audience. Those are the ones that just go, poof, off they go. And in Vampiro, I think, had that ability. He was so unique that even though he was in the ring. and he might have been doing some of the same things as everybody else.

He brought a unique approach to it that made him stand out. And I think he could have gotten much more over than he did, for sure. We're seeing a ladies' match here on Nitro. I know what you're thinking. What? Yeah, it's Miss Madness, the future Molly Holly. Of course, we used to know her as Mona here on the program, but now she's Miss Madness.

Can I interrupt you? I'm sorry. How ironic. I mean, you step back. and you look at time, the significance of the passage of time. Come on now. But I had to.

But here's Mona. Is that her gimmick? Yep. In WCW, here's me in WCW on my way to being shown the door. After having, you know, competed against WWE and all the things that I'd gone through. Here's Mona on my show. So if somebody would have pulled us both aside and said, hey, want to come here, Eric, come here. See this crystal ball?

See you two right there? Right there. Right in the middle of crystal ball. Yep. You're in WWE getting inducted into the Hall of Fame. Wow. How weird of that, right? That's awesome.

That's when you step back and you look at the timeline of your life and you see certain aspects of it that are so interesting and bizarre. And this is one of those moments for me right now. We should mention she's wrestling little genie here. They're going to go four minutes and 34 seconds. Brandy Alexander is going to do a run-in, but Mona is going to close on her here. We should talk about, you know, some of the behind the scenes moving and shaking that's going on here in WCW. I also want to ask you about Chris Jericho. This is the era where he's jumping ship.

He's making his debut over on the WWF. That's where we're seeing the whole, you know, Y2J and all that. But he's also got a website, and he's always sort of been on the cutting edge, he being Chris Cherico. And he actually comes out on his website and makes some sort of comment about DDP

saying something like, isn't everyone sick of seeing DDP on television? What was, did they have real life issues behind the scenes? Where does that come from? Or was this? Because I've heard people who were sort of negative towards the DDP in this era. Like even Mark Madden would start to refer to him as D.D. Me.

What was what was going on with Jericho and DDP here? I don't think there was anything particular going on with him. I think it's just Jericho being Jericho. But isn't it funny how karma has come back and bitten Chris Jericho and he asks like twice? It's funny because people are now saying the same thing about Chris. But I look, I think the world of Chris, I have nothing but respect for Chris. And Chris is doing what Chris has the ability to do and chooses to do. And he's doing it because he loves it.

He wants to. Not doing it because he has to. But when you've been around a long time, you're going to get that kind of criticism. It just comes with the territory. And now, you know, Chris was famous early on, man. He was one of the leading voices of that young guy, you know, wanting to break through the ceiling. get his opportunity and now he's there. And I think to Chris's credit,

I think Chris is doing everything he can do to help get a lot of other people over, which was probably the side or the part of it that was missing at that time in WCW. I don't think there was any of the really established talent that were primarily concerned, at least with getting some of the younger guys over. And I think Chris genuinely is.

Barely in lies the difference. But as far as the specific bitch, between Chris and DDP. I don't think there was one. I think there was just Chris, you know, I don't want to say trying to get himself over, but Chris staying relevant and having commentary

that people could either agree or disagree with. You know, kind of the little controversy creates cash thing. To a certain degree, there wasn't just, you know, Madden and people like Chris who were pointing out that,

man, we see a lot of DDP. But to the, this day, if Diamond Dallas Page sees an opportunity, if there is a crack of daylight coming through a door, Diamond Dallas Page, Paige Falkenberg is going to blow through that freaking door and not ask too many people permission. He's going to seize opportunity. And there was just a lot of opportunity to be seized back in 1999 by people who wanted to get as much opportunity as they possibly could because there were also a lot of people

that just didn't care anymore. And that created opportunity for others. Yes. Diamond Dallas Page being one of them. Look at this move we're seeing from Miss Madness here. What a unique pinning combination. I encourage everybody

go out of your way to watch the finish year that Miss Madness just pulled off on Little Jeannie. That was really, really innovative. I don't know what we should call that. I'm sure Excalibur knows, but my goodness, what a fendness.

What a finish that was. That was cool. Also cool is that there's a report that Arne Anderson was supposed to return to the ring on July 22nd for a thunder taping in Moline, Illinois. Of course, we know that didn't happen. He was forced to retire in 1997 because of neck problems. I mean, I know that he would do some tags with David Flair and things like that, and it would be not a quote-unquote real traditional wrestling match.

but we know that Arne Anderson never returned as a traditional in-ring performer. Again, he would do some tags where he's like wearing a polo sort of thing with David Flair. Was he optimistic? Did he feel pressure to prove value to WCW and get back in the ring? Why do you think this report was out there that he was trying to come back to the ring here? No, it's hard to say why the report was out there, but it could be anything from you know somebody heard somebody say something about hey what if you know we could get armed to do a run-in right and by the time that gets to whatever shit sheet writer that's out there

it's aren't Anderson's gonna wrestle the main event it's all go good i mean that's that's the way dirt sheets work obviously i think everybody's starting to see that now eventually now that we've got social media and so many other ways we can point out what a fraud people like Dave Meltzer and the people, again, not just Dave, but people that like to write shit just to get attention and make things up. It could have been that. It could have been somebody just making things up. Or it could have been a serious conversation at some point in a booking room that somebody felt the need to leak. Who knows where it came from? As far as whether Arne felt pressure to prove value, I don't believe so. Not to me, he didn't.

Now, maybe because of politics and rumors and suggestions that there might be other people on charge, maybe he heard that rumor. But I was pretty protective. I know Arn probably doesn't feel this way, but I was pretty determined to protect Arn financially. When he became injured, I immediately offered him an opportunity to be an agent, even though I really didn't need an agent. And if I did, it might not have been armed because of his relationship. with so many people that brings some advantages,

but it also brings a lot of disadvantages to an agent's role. But it didn't matter to me. What mattered to me is that you didn't have to worry about an income. So I made him an agent. But once that happened, there was no going back with ours condition. There was no, okay, let's see how you feel a year from now. Arn's condition was definitive. So there would have been no conversations seriously.

ones that mattered about aren't getting back into the ring whether he felt pressure or not. This is not going to happen. Biggest storyline on the show is happening right now in front of us. We saw a very young Nicholas Balea or as we may know him, Nick Hogan.

Hulk Hogan's only son. Running into his locker room as dear old dad in the black and white is doing some push-ups and I think young Nicholas wanted to see dad back in the yellow and red. Hogan is going to run to the almost on his way

to the Jody position what the WBF would call the guerrilla position and he's got the big gold belt in tow. Now he's clean shaven here. Of course he's still got the Hulk Hogan mustache but he doesn't have the NWO beard and

as he's doing his version of Hindu squats make me laugh. Rick does him the same way. We would see all of a sudden out of the shadows Kevin Nash and Rick Steiner start putting the beat down on him

Sid would join them they whip him all the way to the ring and then Sting and Goldberg come out to make the save and we're seeing Hulk Hogan look like Hulk Hogan not Hollywood Hogan here without the beard shoulder to shoulder with Goldberg

and Sting two of the biggest WCW baby faces and this is around the same time that there were reports that you were going to take over the presidency of WCW and go back heel do you think we were trying to just go back our roots. Hey, we've, we've done enough of this other stuff. Let's, let's try red and yellow

Hulk Hogan. Let's try evil heel. Eric Bischoff. Let's go with the things that have worked in the past. Let's lean on nostalgia. Is that part of the thinking here? At that time, that era that you were talking about wasn't so much nostalgia. It was just a couple years ago, but it was definitely going back to the well with a formula that we thought could work and driven mostly by desperation. That part is true. But I think, look, there was not much left. Now, that's looking back, you know,

people say, oh, you know, NWO, too many people. Okay, well, that's true. But it was even more than that. The formula, the anarchy. It just lost its, wasn't compelling. anymore. And again, I'm going to talk about today for just a second, so don't get pissed off at me, but I like to draw parallels between what was going on then and what's going on today and how some things haven't changed, right? This was desperation. No doubt about it. We were losing

ground. We were smelling the water that we were drowning in. It was that close to our noses. So, and this was a move that we made as a result of that. But, But I think it was the right move because we rode the formula that got us to the dance, not just the number of people in NWO. This is the point I was trying to make, almost lost it. It wasn't just because we added so many people to the NWO, but the story was no longer compelling. And I see a lot of conversation today on social media. AEW supporters and fans, however many of them are left, defending the storytelling.

Look, people, boy meets girl, boy gets girl, boy loses girl, boy gets girl back. That's a story. It's not compelling, but that's a story. you can defend it and I think that's what's happening in AEW are there stories okay

I guess kind of like boy meets girl boy gets girl boy loses girl boy gets girl back there's a story there it is not compelling and that's what we

that's what we were faced with here in August of 1999 is there were stories that they weren't compelling because we'd watered them down, they were tired, we were using the same formulas over and over and over again, and it no longer worked. And that's what I see happening in AEW today. There are stories.

Mercedes-Monnais has a story, by the way, oh, I'm going to talk about that on wise choices. I'll save that. but holy smoke and we were in that spot in that desperation non-compelling could you justify what we were doing on paper sure you could justify anything did it connect was did it matter was it really a story or was it the tree that fell in a forest every single freaking wake and people less and less people cared that was wcw nitro 19 specifically in august We just saw a big promo here from Hulk Hogan. This talking back and forth is because we've got a big title match between Kevin Nash and

Hulk Hogan just days away at Road Wild. This is the Go-Hom show. You heard Eric say they're here in Boise because of the routing to Sturgis. Not only is the world title on the line, but Kevin Nash has added a loser must retire step. So if Hogan wins, he maintains the belt in his career. but if Hogan loses, he loses his belt and his career. A retirement stipulation here added at the very last minute. When these retirement stipulations are added just days before the pay-per-view,

does it add any value? It feels disingenuous and thoroughway. If it was really going to be a retirement match, wouldn't it make more sense for that to have been something that was set out weeks or maybe months ahead of time? That's a good point. And the answer would be, sure, why not? makes sense. But there's more than one right answer. Another, I think this is an important

point and this is consistent with the way I tried to format Nitro from the very beginning. Surprise, unpredictability, urgency, cliffhangers. Those elements are what you find early Nitro, successful Nitro until we lost the art of telling compelling television around. on 1999, but urgency and spontaneity kind of goes along with unpredictability. Yes. And while your suggested approach would have been nothing wrong with it, you wouldn't have failed any tests in, you know, wrestling college by suggesting that in a thesis. But there's other ways to kind of create interest in urgency is a big one.

I think this was probably more about trying to create that sense of urgency in spontaneity than it was the desperation that I talked about earlier. We were desperate. We were trying to come up with a way to be more compelling. But the urgency and the fact in the spontaneity of announcing this just before the pay-per-view was probably more consistent with my approach to things in general. And to that point, as an example, it's one of the things that I had the announcers, including myself, stopped doing when I took over creative.

is if you go back and you listen to WCW Circa 1990, 91, 92, 93, before me 94, you'll hear just constant, coming up next week, coming up next month, the next week's magazine, you're fucking constantly promoting,

promoting and promoting what's going to happen in the future. Well, you're taking away any element of urgency or spontaneity when everything you're going to do is being laid out and drilled in to the viewer. That was the format, and it worked for a long period of time. That was how you sold wrestling.

It was one big freaking infomercial with matches in between. And it used to drive me crazy. So even early on in Nitro, I would do things like we're seeing here, where the stipulation was added a week before or two weeks before, as opposed to two or three months before, which would have been the traditional approach. Urgency is a big deal. You know, call to action, urgency, same thing.

I mean, an infomercial, if it's Mike Lundell selling my pillows, he's constantly trying to create a sense of urgency. What a fucking example. My God. Of all the examples, of all the examples, that one, my God. But is it, I mean, you know what it mean? No, I know exactly what it means. And I also know about FOMO.

And I don't think back then we were really thinking about, talking about FOMO, but the fear of missing out on so-and-so's last match, you know, I don't want to miss this if this really is the last match. That's what I understand the sense of urgency, but I think FOMO is a big part too. And boys, I see Stacey Keebler walk around here. I'm just reminded how much I hate Billy Kidman. You know, Billy, I just want to say it in a loud and clear voice. Billy Kidman's a nothing happening son of a bitch.

God, I hate him so much. It's speculated in the newsletters. He's just kidding, Billy. is one of the coolest cats. He knows. JBL has told him worse things for years about this. So listen, this whole retirement stipulation, Meltzer speculating that the belief is

Kevin Nash will lose, take a few months off, and then come back with Scott Hall as the outsiders. And we know that ultimately Kevin Nash does wind up losing. It does feel like we're going back to what's worked before, you know, the red and yellow of Holcogne, maybe there's a heel Eric Bischoff and Hollinash as the outsiders. Let's go back to what's worked before.

What we're setting up here in the ring, the reason David Flair was on his way to the ring as he's been pushed out to slaughter. He is the United States champion, but how long is that going to last when he's facing the match that Dusty Road set up for him? Chris Benoit for the U.S. title. They're going to go four minutes.

Of course, referee Charles Robinson was supposed to be there. So David felt like the fix was in. but that's no longer going to work now that WCW is under new management. Nick Patrick, who was once upon a time the heel referee. He's here to call it down the middle and make sure that David Flair doesn't steal a victory over Chris Benoit. But you're going to feel like you're stealing a victory when you check out our friends at Vaya. I got to tell you, we've had all of our products here on the program and imagine how excited I was when I got a box of Vaya. I could not believe it.

I opened it up and took a look and said, honey, you've got to come take a look at this. Vaya is a company that has harnessed the natural benefits of hemp to create high-quality wellness products. From setting the mood in the bedroom to chilling out after a long day, Vaya has something for everybody. They've got award-winning THC and THC-free gummies. Via has a dosage to encourage your comfort, too. There's no need to block off hours of the day for an unproductive high when you can

experience the full spectrum of benefits from cannabis and hemp products with a microdose of THC to give you a little boost without compromising your responsibility. We should also mention that Viya is well renowned for their premium indoor THCA flour. They're soothing topicles and their calming drops. They've all been crafted with the highest quality hemp source from trusted independently owned American farms. And the best part, Via legally ships to all 50 states and indiscreet packaging directly to your door with a worry-free guarantee. There's no medical card required here. It's been trusted by over half a million happy customers for their wellness needs.

Vaya is the brands that everyone is raving about. So if you're over 21, check out our link to Vaya's website and our description for 15% off. And I got to tell you, I was so excited to open this up because my wife, well, she's kind of scared. She's had less than awesome experiences with these type products in the past. but they made it so easy we got like a sampler kit dude so we got one of everything kind of and they make the labels easy to understand

like if I'm honest with you it could be overwhelming when you're like hey this is CBD but this is CBG and that CBN and this has Delta 8 but that has Delta 9 and this is THC but this is THC free and this is THCCA if all that alphabet soup is overwhelming but Eva makes it so easy

they tell you write on the label this will help you sleep they've even got an aphrodisiac one It's got two little cartoon characters holding hands. Real tied. It's got horny goatweed in it. Dude, it's so great. I love this product.

And what I like about it is, there's something for everybody, no matter what your quote-unquote tolerance is. You want THC-free, they got it. Maybe you just want to put your toe in the water like my wife. Well, how about two milligrams? That's right. They've got a two milligram dose. And they go all the way up to 100 milligram dose everywhere in between.

But by the way, zero is an option. over half a million customers it's farmed and crafted right here in the United States excellent top-notch customer support I just really really love this because it's easy and it really works so if you're trying to get into

feeling better to enjoying your time relaxing to focusing a little more to sleeping like whatever you're after if you got a little problem in your life buddy they can make it a little better here if you're 21 or over check out the link to the Vio website in our description and use the code 83 weeks

we'll get you 15% off and after you purchase they're going to ask where you heard about them. Please, please, please remember to support our show and tell them that we sent you enhance your every day with VIA. Use the link in the description today and we've got the code 83 weeks

to get you 15% off. Eric, what's your experience been like with VIA? That was it like you, man. I didn't know that it was coming. A lot of times I don't know what potential new sponsors were going to have And sometimes product shows up to my house and I must be a potential sponsor. So I didn't really know anything about the company.

And I just opened up the box. I went, oh, honey, what month is this? Huh. Feels like Christmas. Yes. It was like crazy. And like you, I'm going through the information. I'm seeing all the different variations and formulations that are designed to do specific things.

And, you know, like focus, for example. I'm a big believer in hemp products and the ability, whether it's CBD or anything else, to enhance certain aspects of your life. So, yeah, I was excited about it. And when I found the one, I can't remember what the name of it is, but the one that's called a pre-blue chew gummy gummy, you know, before the bedroom. And it's got horny goat weed in it. Now, I've had experience with horny goat weed, and it's been pretty positive. So it's pretty exciting.

Yeah, owe it to yourself to check it out. I'm glad you did. I'm glad you did. I'll absolutely love it. Now, listen, they've got something for everybody, whether you're looking for flour or vapes or drops or pre-rolls or topicals. But I'm a gummy guy, and I've mentioned that here before on the show. They've got one called Revive, which is going to get you a little relief for pain.

They got one called flow state for focus. They've got one called Zen for sleep. They got dream, well, for chill. They got dreams for sleep. They got cloud nine for exactly what you imagine. This is a game changer. I want you to check it out. I was really impressed with the packaging and how easy it is to understand.

And the huge variety of dose. I mean, to go from zero milligram to 100 and literally everything in between, I don't think my wife and I've ever seen a two milligram or a five milligram. But here it is. Man, it's great for everybody. Check it right now. It's VA. And we want you to use the link in our description.

Don't forget our code 83 weeks. you'll get 15% off. But once you purchase, be sure to let them know 83 weeks since you. It'll really support the show. It doesn't cost you anything extra, but they'll give you 15% off. And they'll continue to support the show at Viya.

So check the description for today's episode. Click that link and use the code 83 weeks. So, Eric, we've got a new U.S. champion. David Flair, the David Flair experiment, is tabled at least for now. Chris Benoit has taken over. He's the new U.S. champion. Randy Savage is about to come out and cut a promo.

By the way, the prior thunder, we had Savage come out and promised to reveal who was driving the white Hummer. And he said he was going to introduce a new bodyguard. Of course, he does neither of those. And it's not brought up. Continuity was an issue at times in WCW. Do you wish, with the benefit of hindsight, you had a continuity person?

now well of course it doesn't hurt to have an extra set of eyes making sure you know the details within a story are not overlooked or not managed properly no doubt about that but oftentimes if you've got if you're hitting on all cylinders if you're if the foundation of your story is good if everybody that's involved in the story is is on board and understands it continuity is not that big of an issue. It's always something you should manage. You can't just pretend it doesn't require attention. But when you're running on all eight cylinders, consistency kind of just happens. It's when you become desperate and start reaching for straws and throwing things against the wall to hope they stick without really thinking them through. That's what happens in desperation. It kind of goes back to

what I was talking about. Is their story? Yeah, but are the holes in the story so obvious, even if they're not obvious subconsciously because of those holes, the audience is just not following. They just don't care. They're not connected to it. There's no emotion between them and what they're watching on television.

Because some of those holes, even if they're subtle to the viewer, just prevent the audience from really experiencing any kind of joy and watching it. That's where we were. but yeah continuity became you know continuity was really a big issue with WCW when we were doing the syndicated shows from Disney yeah problem that was a mess you know we learned eventually we figured out how to do it initially it was a real mess but it didn't really become a we addressed it and continuity wasn't as big of an issue until we started struggling 1999 we also want to mention that Meltzer is reporting in this era that KISS received $500,000 to perform two

songs on Nitro on August 23rd, plus Gene Simmons is going to introduce a new wrestler. The Kiss Demon is going to be played by Dale Torberg, who grew up as a fan idolizing Gene Simmons. A lot's been made of that, of course. We know that we've covered all that in the archives. As a reminder, though, Dale's the conditioning coordinator for the Chicago White Sox. He's actually been a part of two World Series championship teams, the O3 Marlins and the O5 White Sox. How does he get this gimmick and how does all this come to be?

And is it true? It was once upon a time discussed that perhaps Brian Adams might be in that role. Yeah, it was discussed and probably would have been. Again, you know, since you brought it up, shit stain Meltzer reported it was 500 grand. It wasn't 500 grand. As is almost always the case, Dave Meltzer is long. then, as often as he is wrong today, which is quite frequently, because he just makes shit up. As far as, you know, and we have covered it, you know, the whole KISS experiment,

his strategy was a licensing and merchandising strategy. It wasn't, you know, a wrestling related, not necessarily wrestling exclusive idea. It was a wrestling idea that had a tremendous upside because of licensing and merchandising. And there was the plan initially with Gene. We were going to create the Kiss Army. How Dale Torborg got involved, I honestly couldn't tell you. He was such a big advocate. He was a part of the discussion early on.

I don't know what the connection was with Dale, but he was front and center from the get-go. Somehow, some way. I don't know. Glad he was because he was a perfect casting for it. But then the idea was to add to that army. And Brian Adams was definitely part of that conversation. Because if you just close your eyes and imagine, you look at somebody like Brian Adams, you look at Kiss.

Yes. How tough is it going to be to create a character with Brian Adams or Dale Torberg at that point in time that were kind of brand connected to Kiss? Perfect for it. We mentioned the TV God opportunity a few moments ago that it's going to be. Sting, Nash, Savage, and Kimberly Page. Previously, you know, a TV guy that had had Hulk Hogan and Goldberg on the cover of these programs. Is that something do you think went through Turner Corporate and they landed on WCW? Or do you think TV Guide actually reached out directly to WCW for that?

I was TV Guy to to WCW. Turner Corporate wouldn't have had anything to do with it. If Turner Corporate would have had anything to do with it, 19909. It wouldn't have been WCW. It wouldn't have been anybody from WCW on a cover of TV guide. There were probably people in Turner Corp are going, damn it, damn it, how do they keep doing this? We're trying to bury them.

We're taking their money. We're doing everything we can to put them out of business. And these sons of bitches are getting a cover of TV guide. That would have been the conversation in Turner Corp. Kimberly Falkingberg is called Kimberly Page here when she's in the Playboy episode or issue called Hard Bodies. that's going to be her second appearance in Playboy, I believe. And it mentions her as a member of the Nitro Girls, and they say that she formerly managed Diamond Dallas Page

in the World Wrestling Federation. Now, of course, we know it was actually World Championship Wrestling, but that had to be something that just wore your ass out. After all this time that you've spent trying to build the WCW brand to at one point, and not in 99, but last year and the year before that, and the year before that, the biggest wrestling company in the world, but people are still just so familiar with the brand WWF.

Like, even my mom to this day, she doesn't know there are multiple mixed martial arts companies. She just says, oh, it's that UFC stuff. And WWE had that brand for wrestling. How big of a burr into your saddle would that be

when you saw things like that happen? By this point, I got used to it. In a beginning when I was like ultra competitive and, you know, fighting hard to get up to the top of that mountain because that was, for me, that was, I like to build shit. Yeah. That's, was, the most exciting part wasn't being on top.

The most exciting part for me was getting on top. And at that point in time, it just, you know, I, pissed me off for hours. It would just, sure. But by 1999, I was over it. I just wanted to survive. But by the way, talking about different martial arts companies and Sturgis. Oh, how about that? Baruncle Fighting Championships and Sturgis at the Buffalo Chip with one of my closest friends.

Johnny Tubbo-Weed is the MC. And, oh, Kana McGregor shows up. One of the owners, Baruncle Fighting Championship shows up. Got a great old. Here we go. Setting the stage once again. Seeing the future well beyond the rest of the world. Yeah, congratulations, bare-knuckle fighting championship.

David Feldman, Cyrus, hats off to you and your new partner, Connor McGregor. In an alternate universe, I mean, I'm really glad that you and Mrs. B got your time away and had your fun vacation trip and anniversary trip and celebration and all that. But in an alternate universe, you hanging out at a bare-knuckle fight in Sturgis with Connor McGregor, that just feels right. I had the invitation. Yeah, oh, I'm well aware. I was not only invited, but would have been very, very welcome. Thanks to David Feldman and Cyrus and the team over at bare knuckle. But I had already committed to my wife.

We already had made plans. And honestly, because I did suggest it. Yeah, when I got the call. Yeah, I got. I know what you got. You got the look. I said, honey, guess what? Because we do have a friend.

His name is Tumbleweed. But he looks like one. here go the name. But close, close buddy of mine. We used to ride Harleys together. We did Laughlin, the Laughlin ride together during the big Hells Angels Mongols shootout. We haven't had a lot of fun together.

That wasn't fun, but we've done a lot of things together. Let's put it that way on our bikes. And he's now the main MC of the main stage of Buffalo Chip, which is the place in Sturgis. You know, jelly roll was there. Kid Rock shows up all the time. He performs there. It's a big, big deal. And then I got the call from

Baradocco Fighting Championships say, hey, we'd love to have you. Come on down. We'll take care you. And I went to Mrs. B. I said, hey, we haven't seen Tumblewe. You know, we're getting older. And, you know, we should take advantages

of these opportunities while we can to stay close to the people that we're really tight with and friends with. She's looking to me like, what the fuck? Yeah, not happening. And I said, and, and, Spence's will be covered. Let's go to Sturgis. As soon as the word Sturgis came out of my mouth, I just said, go,

so yeah, that wasn't happening. But down the road, down the road. Check it out, Barrenocle Fighting Championship. Eric Bischoff's a big fan. I think you will be too. Shout out to those guys over there. And Cyrus, big friend of the show. I helped us on a lot of Starcasts and ratch.

Play by the guy, too, by the way. Yeah, he knows what he's doing, man. Yeah. We're about to watch the best match on the show, and unfortunately, this is the segment that gets buried. Nitro is going to get destroyed here. But what a fun opportunity this is. Gentlemen, Chris Adams, and Dave Taylor against Ray Mysterio and Eddie Guerrero. And Tony Kahn never cited this match in particular, but he did say how much he enjoyed the randomness or so it felt of some of these styles clash matchups that we would see in WCW, specifically Nitro.

like the idea that just randomly here we've got gentlemen Chris Adams and Dave Taylor taking on Eddie Guerrero and Ray Mysterio Jr. This is, I mean, I wouldn't say it's a dream match

because I can't imagine anyone dreaming it, but I'm excited to watch it because it's just like, wow, these are four incredibly talented guys that I never even knew cross paths like this. Yeah,

and I think more importantly, their styles are so different. Yeah. And you almost diametrically opposed, right? You think of the kind of British influence and professional wrestling to Stephen Regals of the world and Finley's of the world. You know, very, very aggressive, don't get me wrong, but more, you know, Billy Robinson-ish,

very technical than anything else. Submissions were such a big part of that style of wrestling long before, you know, UFC and Jiu-Jitsu and submission, MMA came along. So, but that contrast so dramatically. from the high-flying kind of Lucci influence that, you know, this represented. And I understand why somebody like Tony and myself in this context, I really appreciate this on a personal level.

It's not very commercial. Like you can do it every once in a while as a unique offering. Yes. Kind of added value. Interesting footnote. You can't build a business around it. But for those people who are really, really into the art and the history. of the art and understand the complexities of it,

this is kind of like a showcase. A really fun match here. I hope that you'll go out of your way to see. It's the best match on the show, according to Dave Meltzer. And with these performers, I don't doubt it. A couple of other news and notes we should hit. Shane Douglas appeared on WCW Live,

which is really the OG podcast from back in the day. And he said that WCW is attempting to obtain the rights to his entrance music that he used over in ECW, which was Perfect Strangers by Deep Purple, and they were with Mercury Records. That is the music that he used in ECW, so I like the continuity if we could keep it. Was that ever important to you, like, when a song is that well branded with a performer, like we know in the WWF, they would use Rick Derringer's Real American for Hulk Hogan. We had, you know, American made made by Jimmy Hart here in WCW, but when possible,

Do you think that's important now or what could have been important then to try to keep the presentation the same, even if it involves licensing a song? It would be ideal. I mean, look at last night's episode as we're recording Thursday morning, last night's episode of Dynamite and Orange Cassidy's music. Yes. That, you know, that crowd was, that I saw last night was, eh. But when that music hit, you know, it's familiarity. it's it's an immediate connection tapping into the anticipation element of emotion and it always works that's why movies you know spent that's why movie producers spends such a fortune on now soundtracks

it can really really be the right music or the right moment in entertainment can bring so much added value in terms of emotion that it's always a great thing. However, I can assure you in 1999 that WCW was not pursuing licensing anything by Deep Purple on Mercury Records because that would have been really expensive at a time when WCW, because our budgets had been gutted, gutted, and we were, I was happy just to be able to have a a satellite show up so that we could transmit the show live. So there was no, nobody was spending any money on licensed music for anybody.

Shane has given you a lot of credit over the years for bringing him into WCW and paying him nicely. What are your memories of working with Shane in this period? Did you get along well with him? Yeah. It was a problem. I never had an issue and had great conversations. There were times when we may have had.

different perspectives on story or even discussing potential stories and angles. But they were very productive conversations. They were not adversarial ones. They were the kind of, it's kind of collaboration, even if it gets challenging. It's the kind of collaboration that really excites me. I liked working with people that pushed me and challenged me, but did it professionally. and with passion and commitment. I like that.

Every time I see Randy Savage, I miss him. Same with Roddy Piper. I mean, you could have diametrically opposed ideas on how to execute something. And some of the most fascinating conversations I've had creatively were with people that just really dug in. and fought for their ideas, but did it the right way. Uncomfortable, but productive. And Shane was like that. You can have great conversations with Shane.

Another ECW talent, well, former ECW talent, Raven, was interviewed by the ECW website. I know what you're thinking. Wait a minute, wasn't he just on that trip? He sure was. And in this interview on the ECW website, he would say that his contract expires in 10 months, and there isn't anyone he'd rather work for than Paul Heyman. And we know he's going to get his wish. By the end of the month, he's working for ECW.

I think they're going to hold a meeting backstage and pretty much offer anyone who's not happy their release. He takes you up on it. Do you think in this area you were just sort of oil and water for Raven? He was just a, he was a, yeah, it wasn't going to fit. It was a, I mean, it's just a bad relationship. Yeah. Just an absolutely, I don't want to say, top.

toxic. We both recognize this wasn't going to work and no reason to attempt it. Raven was very dark. I mean, personally, he had a lot going on in his life and he just, eh, it wasn't going to work. He had to do what he had to do. I had to do what I had to do. It was a great parting of the way, so let's put it that way. Respect the hell of a lot of Scott. I leave it to this day. Sure. And enjoy running across him to the same, probably more so now than ever, really. But at that period of time, you know, he was somebody that I was probably avoiding more than anything. Go out of your way to watch this match. Boy, this was fun.

Ray Mysterio nails a top rope Frankensteiner on Chris Adams. Chris doesn't go to the center of the ring. He's closer to the ropes. He's a long way from where Eddie Guerrero is. And Eddie Guerrero, who's already on the top rope across the ring, just soars all the way across the ring with a beautiful frog splash. what an incredible performer Eddie was. And now we see Vampiro and Insane Clown Posse do a run-in.

Billy Kidman is here to help. So we're setting up a three-way dance, I suppose. Meltzer is going to report that Rick Flair missed this episode after returning from Japan due to a back injury. But it's written that he was also asked to put Shane Douglas over clean. And Flair apparently had told friends he's more than willing to lose to Chris Benoit or even Billy Kidman. but Shane Douglas hasn't gotten over

and he's drawing poor quarter hours and he didn't deserve it. And by the way, it is worth mentioning it was a record low for Shane Douglas segment the prior week. So that's the reason Rick said that. Not picking on Shane. I like Shane, but that's what Rick was saying.

And there's in the company, there's a sentiment that the old guys who aren't putting over the new guys are sympathetic because it's thought that Flair is the only superstar to work with and elevate the second-tier guys. And it doesn't really ever elevate the second-tier guy. And the feeling is, Flair was asked because of business.

And perhaps he feels like it's a personal humiliation. Because he hasn't gotten along well with Shane Douglas and he hasn't gotten along well with you. And Flair, perhaps, even mentions he wants to be taken off television. You'll keep working the house shows, but if you're going to use me like this, I don't want to do it on television. What do you make of your relationship with Rick here in August of 99? And more importantly, what did you believe the relationship to be with Shane Douglas and Rick? I know they eventually do work together, but was it apparent they had problems before Shane came in?

Like, I knew that from watching ECW, but did you know that? Yeah, we knew that. We knew that. It was one of the things, you know, that I addressed with Shane. I wanted to get a sense of, you know, serious that issue was or wasn't before bringing him in. And I talked to Rick before bringing Shane in. It's not like I needed to get permission, but I wasn't going to do something that I knew was going to create a more toxic environment. And, you know, it was, you know, I don't think Rick was excited about him coming in, but it wasn't, you know, there was nothing, there was no line in the sand either.

So I just didn't really care, to be honest. But I was aware of the history, no desire to try to put them together in the low of it. I would rather have just kept them away from each other. I don't, you know, again, as with anything with Dave Meltzer, I have no idea if any of it is true, if there's a kernel of truth to it. So I really don't even want to address it just because Dave has such a propensity to make shit up. So I'll just leave it with maybe it's Maybe it's partially true Maybe it's mostly true

I have no idea As far as Dave's reporting And Rick refusing to do things Or being asked to be left off TV Whatever It's Dave Meltzer You gotta take it with a huge great assault But there was tension

Between Shane and Rick What we skipped over here on this watch along That's been edited out by the WWE for Peacock is after that match that we just saw with Dave Taylor and Chris Adams, Kerr Henning and the West Texas Rednecks

would come out to their new song and they'd say they're going to be in concert. Gene Eaukeland is going to protest about the great Chad Brock coming out with his tone, trying to get like a baby face pop for the name. Fans boo the name and Gene tells Kurt,

hey, you've been preempted. We know we're going to see Chad Brock a little later, but who the hell was Chad? Brock and how does he get involved with WCW here? I'm glad you asked. What a blast from the past. Chad Brock was a Warner Music star under contract with Warner Music, country music. Warner Brothers Music really, they were putting a lot of money.

They had signed him to the label. They were putting a lot of money behind him. They had plans on launching Chad Brock in a very, very big way. And I was approached by Warner Brothers, Warner Music in this case, and went up to Nashville, met with Chad, who had a strong, interested professional wrestling, really great guy, very physical guy. I mean, he looked like a professional wrestler first that happened to be in the country music business. So he was, as a character, he would have fit, and he had the passion for it, was willing to come to the power plant, really willing to commit, like move to Atlanta from Nashville to train. He wasn't just,

hey, put me on TV and make me a star. He was, hey, give me an opportunity to learn this business and I'm going to try to bring the country music audience and professional wrestling together with the support of Warner Music behind him, because they love that strategy, taking advantage of Nitro to help launch the career. So on paper, probably one of the cooler opportunities that resulted from the merger on paper, didn't hit, again, more because of timing than lack of talent, ability, or concept. Timing was horrible for Chad. And it was rushed on top of that.

We're seeing Billy Kidman wrestle Disco Inferno here, and they're actually going to get some time. They're going to go eight minutes and 54 seconds. Somebody who maybe wishes they had a little more. more time is Gene Okerland. He's actually going to make the newsletters at the time. Meltzer would say that Gene's contract is coming due shortly. He's tried to use the WWF as leverage to get a new and perhaps better deal.

But the WWF doesn't appear to be interested in even talking with him. So now he's using a proposed radio show as leverage. Were you on the fence about Gene? Did he not perhaps know the financial constraints that had been put on WCW, what can you tell us about Gene's contract come and do? You know, I don't have any direct recollection of it

specific conversations relating to Gene and whether we should or shouldn't. It was probably a typical negotiation where Gene, who was represented by Barry Bloom, was trying to maximize the opportunity because that's what agents and managers do. But there was no money there. There was no negotiating.

There was no angle. There was no leverage. It was a take it or leave it. And by this point in time, because of what had happened to our budget the previous year, there was no room. It's just, here's, Gene, here's the number. We love you. We want to keep you.

But nothing is going to change that number the way you wanted to. So that's what it was, really. And that's why I don't remember any specific details because it was nothing really to negotiate. I want to mention that his contract expired in 1996, and he was actually off TV for a couple of months before he comes back. So maybe that's what he's trying to avoid here. I should mention in The Observer that came out this same week back in August of 1999, August 9th, 1999. Meltzer had some really nice things to say about you. You were in the running for the Observer Wrestling Hall of Fame, and it was voted on by the readers, of course.

And this is what he said about you. talking about EU, got some consideration from people last year, and he's probably more responsible than Vince McMahon for creating the popularity boom with the business over the past three years. But plenty of promoters have had great two or three year runs. And the key for a promoter is to make this list is 10 or 20 years of consistent, successful promoting. Some could bring up Antonio Pena who was in, but Pena had his first run, which changed the business in his country after changing the business the first time as a creative booker and now

with no talent is having another strong run. Bischoff to me despite his initial success and the doors that he's opened to wrestlers isn't looking very good these days and even if he was, needs years more success to stand the test of time. What do you think

about that? The standing the test of time in order to be in the Hall of Fame like the Dave Meltzer Hall of Fame? Well, I'm just saying if that were true of a tradition. You're asking me questions. You know what I treat that question with what it deserves.

Oh, come on. Don't say that. Dave is a clown. He's a fucking misfit clown. Hang on now. This isn't Dave. No more hang on now. You ask me a question.

You're going to get the muckafucking answer. He's a clown. And he deserves absolutely no. respect or credibility he's a parasitic clown he's a misfit and the idea that anybody has to strive to be in the dave melter hall of fame is just comedy relief comedy relief somebody's got to talk first. Oh, no, I was just letting you finish. You know, it's voted on by the readers.

I just wanted to know, you know, where do you land on the Hall of Fame thing as far as longevity? Like, do you think a two-year hot run, a three-year hot run? Like, I don't think anybody could look back and say that Goldberg didn't make an impact, that the Ultimate Warrior didn't make an impact. Like, for better or worse, these guys were certainly Goldberg. I mean, I think Goldberg is a much better example than even the Ultimate Warrior. But even the NWO, I mean, the NWO as an act was, they couldn't get more over in 96, 97, and 98. So I do think that longevity can be very important for a Hall of Fame career.

But when you're that white hunt and you're at the tippy top, I mean, not like I'm in the mix, but no, it's the biggest thing. I can cut you a break even if it's brief. remove yourself from the equation. What do you think of that? Honestly, I can't take any of it seriously. It's not a serious conversation to me. The only thing that's serious to me when I look back, you know, anybody's Hall of Fame,

it's still subjective. It's an opinion. You know, Dave Meltzer's readers are Dave Meltzer types. And their opinion means absolutely nothing to me because it's just a subjective opinion. For every one of them, I can find five people that have different. opinions. It doesn't really matter. What I tend to look at is what changed the business in a positive way, whether it is a moment, whether it's Mike Tyson involving himself in an angle with

Steve Austin and Vince McMahon that literally changed the course of WCW's or WWE's business and perhaps save the company. It was a moment. it wasn't 20 years it was a moment that moment arguably i would love to sit with people who are actually knowledgeable about the business of the wrestling business and and have a historical perspective creatively and look at the moments in time and the strategies the longer term business to business strategies that actually affected the business and grew the business in a positive way. Those are the moments and the people involved in them that I think deserve recognition, whether, again, it's a moment or it's two years, 20 years. It doesn't matter. What changed

the industry? Going back to brief timeline, Vince McMahon, taking over control of WWF from his dad, wiping out the territories, going national, creating really the wrestling paper, view model, not only creating it, but perfecting it, growing, it, establishing it so that other companies like WCW and now AEW and others could follow and grow. That moment, that period of time, whether it was a year or two years, is I think one of the most definitive times in modern day wrestling because it changed the industry completely. It was a radical overhaul. You know, now people like to use the term disruption disruptors.

That was the ultimate disruption of a traditional industry that never saw that coming. And it changed everything for everybody. I think Ted Turner buying creating WCW out of the, out of former Jim Cracker promotions, another pivotal period of time that changed the industry forever. and yes, Nitro, and all of the elements that came with Nitro that we're still seeing today and are largely responsible for creating the Attitude Era and the Mike Tyson opportunity, which, by the way, in my opinion, is controversial as it may be, bring it on bitches. If it wasn't for that period of time, I don't think you're watching WWE today.

Because WWE's reaction to Nitro and the NWO was the attitude era. launched by Mike Tyson, Mr. McMahon, and Stonecold Steve Austin. That moment in time that we talked about just a few moments ago recreated an entirely new business model for WWE. The abandoned teen and preteen went after 18 to 34, 49-year-old males, their business model changed as a result. And what happened after that? The company goes public.

What happens after that? Fast forward. it sold for $9 billion. So, yeah, I think there are moments, there are people associated with those moments that have far more significance than the subjective opinion of a dirt sheet writer or the people that...

Wow. I want to mention, we just saw the third appearance from the insane clown posse and vampiro on this show. They did yet another run-in in the Kidman Disco Inferno deal, and eventually we would see Eddie Guerrero, Billy Kidman, and Ray Mysterio make the save.

And Disco sticks his hand out, and Ray Mysterio goes to hug him, but Disco walks off. Was that seriously discussed, Disco being a part of the filthy animals, perhaps? That could have been interesting. I don't remember that. I would not have been involved in that discussion that would have been creative with Kevin and Robbie Terry and other people, Terry Taylor. I can see it, though. I mean, it's an odd casting, but odd casting can sometimes work.

It was even reported at the time that the idea was Kidman, Guerrero, Mysterio, Conan, and Disco, a former group called The Filthy Animals. The idea has been bouncing around for weeks, and Nash kept nixing it, but I guess they bugged him enough, and now they're doing it. They may form another group with Whoe, an unmasked psychosis, and a few others. how do you remember the filthy animals coming to become a thing? Well, I just now remember, thankfully, as a result of you referencing Kevin Nash as a booker, I forgot that Kevin Sullivan wasn't booking at this point in 1999. So that's how much I remember of anything at this particular point, which if you were inside my head and in my life, you would understand back in 1990.

Well, you had Kevin, right? Yeah. Well, yeah, but earlier we were talking about a booking question, and I would have put that off on Kevin Sullivan. Should have been Kevin Nash. No, I'm with you. I was just giving you credit. I got the Kevin right in my mouth. I got a longer in my mind.

Yes, yes. Meltzer would also say that Conan sent a letter from his doctor saying he shouldn't fly. And he's on a bunch of house shows that he's been advertised to wrestle. And then after he misses some shows a week. after that, that's when the letter shows up. So, of course, people are raising their eyes. And come on, you got to love that, right? Yes.

I mean, I'm sure at that time I wanted to just throw myself off a building, right? But looking back at it now, I was like, yeah, I really don't want to do those out shows. So, hey, doctor, whatever you are, could you just write me a note? Saying I can't fly. That'd be great. I love it. By the way, as you know, you did not get into the Observer Hall of Fame. Jim Ross was voted in.

Oh, God. He was the only American who went in. Juschen Liger in Great Muda and a lady wrestler over Japan. Lioness Aska. They all went in. But you didn't make it, darn it. So sad. Maybe someday.

I wanted to mention back at Thunder during Sid's run-in, this is according to the observer, there was a big explosion in the building that was never referred to on the air. It sounded like somebody was maybe taking a shot with a gun at Sid. Actually, it was a pyro explosion. and both of the guys who handled the pyro for WCW were injured and taken to the hospital. One had second degree burns on his arm and back, so there's no more pyro at the rest of that taping. Do you remember a pyro incident at Thunder?

I don't. Wow. I might not have been at Thunder. By this point in time, I wasn't. I'm not sure I made Thunder every week. I mean, I handed that off. We should also talk a little bit about, this is the go-home era

for this road wild pay-per-view and this is going to be the last one 1999. When you look back at that whole Sturgis opportunity outdoors

do you think that was I mean, I know you got a motor oil deal out of it but with the benefit of hindsight would you have done anything differently?

No. No. I mean, I perhaps would have moved it indoors just because of the unpredictable nature of the way. It's really, really crazy. And like, Sturgis is going on right now, which, by the way, if there was a thunder on the road on our way to Sturgis, I would have been there. I forgot that we were on our way to Sturgis. The weather, you know how it is in Florida, like in the summertime? It's sunshine and all day long, but the heat's building up.

The entity's building up. And then around 5 o'clock, you could pretty much depend on a thunderstorm for about an hour. And then it clears out and it gets nice, right? Typically, central Florida at least. Sturgis is a lot like that. Only instead of heavy downpours of rain, you get hail the size of your fist. And it goes for about an hour and a half and you get 40, 60, 70 mile an hour winds. And then it blows through and it gets nice and sunny and cool and wonderful out.

we almost got killed by weather one time for sure early on as sturgis like i was afraid lights were going to come down it got so we had like 60 70 mile hour winds we had people watching the weather and patterns on what on airline weather radar systems so that we could prepare and move people out if we had to it got that bad so i think i probably would have avoided that stress and moved it indoors, but the Sturgis idea, the concept was a good one then and it's a good one now. You're exposing your product to an audience, more importantly to advertisers that might not otherwise pay any attention to you.

And you can have a, just like Bareknuckle Fighting Championship did. Go back and look at the video, folks. You want to see something exciting. Go back and look at what Bear Knuckle Fighting Championship did. and surges just last weekend. It can really, really work, but more importantly, it positions you in front of advertisers and advertising agencies that might not otherwise take a look at you or take you seriously. So the idea was good.

I would have probably begun to execute it differently. Well, something you need to execute differently is your approach to getting baseball tickets this summer or tickets for anything. Eric and I know what to do. We reach for the game time app. We both love going to baseball games It makes us feel like kids again I don't know what it is

That makes me nostalgic about going to baseball games But I think of my dad And I think about my grandfather And I don't know It really is America's pastime But the future is here with game time If you're looking to get a good seat At a great price

Let me just tell you Game Time is the authorized ticket marketplace For Major League Baseball Which makes getting tickets faster And easier. By the way, prices on the game time app actually go down the closer you get to the first pitch. They've got killer last minute deals, all in prices, views from your seat, and even the lowest price guarantee. That means game time is really taking the guesswork out of buying MLB tickets.

You can check out the game time app and see what's coming to your area. Eric's talked about doing that before. But I want to mention we have a testimony that we just got over the last week from a friend of ours who used the GameTime app to go to SummerSlam. One of our listeners sent this in. The GameTime app does it again. I got tickets to the SummerSlam in my hometown of Cleveland, Ohio, and I had killer seats. I only paid $15 for, and people that sat eight rows above me paid over $400. I also got the ticks the day before the event.

Once again, you guys helped me out. Think about that. Eight rows above him. A.k.a. a worst seat. They paid over 400 bucks. My dude paid $15 with game time. They got last minute deals like that for you too, for sports, concerts, comedy, theater, and more. They've even got exclusive in-app deals on select seats ahead of the game. How about a zone deal where you choose the section and game time chooses the seat? There's no, you see the total up front too, so there's no surprise fees at checkout.

And there's a panoramic view you get from your seat before you buy. How about this lowest price guarantee? If you find a better deal in the same price and same section, same row rather, game time will credit you not just 100% of the difference, but 110% of the difference. They don't just want to make sure you get a good deal. They want you to get the best deal. And that's why your purchase is covered with the most flexible customer service policy in the entire ticketing industry. Take the guesswork out of buying Major League Baseball tickets with GameTime. download the GameTime app

Create an account, use the code Weeks, you'll get $20 off your first purchase. Terms apply. Again, create an account and redeem the code Weeks. That's W-E-E-E-K-S for $20 off. Download game time today. Last minute tickets. Lowest price, guaranteed.

We're watching a fun match here with Buff Bagwell and Scott Norton when all of a sudden at the top of the ramp, we just saw Ernest the Cat Miller dancing around. And here comes Sonny Ono without sunglasses. I don't remember seeing Sunny on WCW TV without sunglasses very often. I don't think I have either. By the way, Ernest and Sunny are going to be here this week as this show drops.

Well, show drops on Friday. Next week, Ernest, the Cat, Miller, and Sunny, I know, are going to be here in Cody, Wyoming, along with Hacksaw, Jim Duggan, and his wife. And we're going to be, we're going to be having some fun on next week. So I'll send video, all of the members, the exclusive members over at 83weeks.com. We'll get you video that no one else will have. 83 weeks.com is your home for all things. Eric Bischoff, hit the subscribe button, turn on the notifications bell. You heard Eric say, yeah, we'll talk about that on wise choices.

You're not going to find that on the RSS feed here for 83 weeks. You've got to go to our YouTube, totally free. 83 weeks.com, hit that subscribe button, turn on the notifications bell. Eric will go live when the boys are in town. And, man, when he's live talking about current wrestling, Look out. Buff Bagwell here is wrestling as former tag team partner. I love their old team name, Vicious and Delicious.

That's never mentioned on commentary here. But Bagwell's getting ready to start shooting a movie out in Los Angeles that stars John Ritter. Did you think Bagwell, I mean, I know he was in a few movies. Did you think he had crossover appeal and he could actually make a run on some level in Hollywood? You know, I didn't know. I wasn't a judge. I didn't have much feel for what we did or didn't work in Hollywood. But I was supportive of the opportunity.

Anytime somebody got an opportunity to do something outside of wrestling in television or film, I was obviously very supportive. And still I'm to this day because you learn. I think, you know, Britt Baker is going to get an opportunity on Netflix coming up. It will make Britt Baker a better performer in the ring. The experience she gets, even if it's because it's so different than what she's. used to. But the experience, the insight, the feel that she'll get during that experience will be something that she can apply to what she's doing in the ring. So I've always believed

that. I believe it more so now than I ever have. So yeah, I would have been fully supportive. But I don't think I had a gut feel for whether it was a good fit for Marcus or not. I just looked at it as a good opportunity. Let's do some questions. We've got a live studio audience with us here today from ad-freeshows.com. Aaron Sheen wants to know, Hogan going back to the red and yellow. Whose call was it? Did Hogan want to do it or did he have to be talked into it?

I think it was his idea. And we all kind of agreed. I mean, it was like, okay, what else are we going to do? It's not like there's a lot of other creative options that are compelling. So, yeah. And obviously, you know, with creative control, there was no forcing him. There was no coercing or convincing going on there. I actually think it was his idea.

Michael Stuttler wants to know. Eric, when was the last time you visited Disney's MGM, now Hollywood Studios? The New York Street and soundstages are gone or converted to park attractions. Yeah, I've heard that recently. In fact, we've got an ad-free shows member that I called a couple weeks ago, had a long conversation with who's an executive at Disney. and it was there back when we were there and it's still there today.

And we had a conversation a couple of weeks ago. I just called them randomly, which I do, you know, for ad-free shows, members. But once a week, I'll just grab a bunch of names out of a hat and randomly call people shoot shit. And one of those weeks happened to be, you know, the person I'm talking about. So I've heard it's changed a lot. I haven't been there. Oh, I don't think I've been there since the last time I showed.

shot there in whatever year, 1998, maybe, 97. I know we shot there during the Olympics, which one of the things that I'm going to, I want to do, I'm going to have to talk to our research team. I want to go back and look at the impact of the Olympics on WWE back in 96, maybe 2000, and the impact of the Olympics on WCW's programming because we were head-to-head against the Olympics as well. I'd like to see how much impact Olympic viewership had been versus Olympic viewership now. It appears WCW has been affected, but minimally talking about single digit percentages. It's excluding preemptions, obviously. AEW seems to be affected pretty dramatically

and I think they've only, they've only been around for what, one Olympic? Yeah, that's right. Yeah. So they've only been around, you know, they've only been around, you know, for one previously. So, but it's just interesting. No, just this one. Like they, yeah, yeah, yeah, you're right. October of 19. Yeah, yeah.

Yeah, they would have been through two. This Olympics, for whatever reason, seems to be more topical. Yeah. There was a lot more, just a lot more going on that was almost newsworthy before it even started. So it'd just be interesting to look at. Aaron wants to know, do you think wrestling at Disney MGM could work today? on a limited basis, yeah. I mean, I've talked to ad nauseum about studio settings

and how sterile and non-compelling they are. They're functional. Yes, you can do it. Short term, but long-term, it's death by a thousand cuts and destined to failure. If you're going to do a live action, wrestling show the most important part of that show

is the audience and if your audience feels small contrived meaning non-organic not really wrestling fans just people on the soundstage or even if they're real wrestling

fans but the environment is so small that it just doesn't feel like an event it feels like a game show then the creative doesn't matter, the star power doesn't matter. In the long term, no one's going to take it seriously.

My opinion, having done it. Chad, what we missed here, if you're watching along with us still, on the peacock feed, you got the Jersey triad out here. So it's an ADP holding the microphone, talking with Canyon and Bam Bam Bigelow. They're the tag team champions.

What we skipped over was Chad Brock singing on Nitro. A lot of people skipped over. 355,000 people changed the channel during that. Kurt Henning's going to come out, and then the revolution comes out to save Brock, and it's mentioned that Brock had actually wrestled before, and now we get this Jersey Triad promo, and it's going to lead to Canyon and Booker T having a match. It's also mentioned in the newsletters at the time that Canyon's only working five days a month,

the nitros and the paper views, because he's been moved to Los Angeles to start working with the wrestling choreography for the new WCW movie that's about to be filmed. So he's got to help get some actors ready to do wrestling. How did Canyon get that opportunity? I worked with Canyon and Jay Leno. Dominole's page really believed in Canyon. I hadn't worked with Canyon in terms of watching him, you know,

train or develop or work with non-professionals. So I had no experience. Page convinced me that Canyon was one of, of the best in teaching. And a lot of people, there's an old saying, you know, those who can do, those who can't do teach. That's true in life. But there are certain individuals who are really good at something,

but excel at teaching. And Chris Canyon was one of those people, man. He just, he knew how to explain wrestling to non-wrestling people in a way that made sense to them. He didn't talk in rustling shorthand, you know, which is a problem. He was just really good at it. And I saw that with Jay Leno. So when the movie opportunity came along, it was just a natural.

We've got a lot of Hulk Hogan questions I want to get to. But before we do, I want to ask another question here from Aaron Sheen. By August the 99, how did Eric feel about the company? Did he think it was still fixable? I ask because I know at heart you're like a serial entrepreneur. newer. I mean, you're a free spirit. You're a pain outside the lines. You're a damn the torpedoes. You're an endeavor to persevere kind of guy. But even you occasionally will just throw your hands up and say, fuck it. This ain't fixable. There's just nothing you can do here. Time to move on. But I know that you're loyal to a fault and you'll hang in there. Did you have any optimism in August the 99 that, hey, we could pull the nose up on this thing. This is fixable. This is doable. I don't think I did deep down inside. I may have tried to convince others.

Put a brave face on. Yeah, I may have been trying to convince myself, but I didn't believe my own bullshit. And to illustrate how much, probably, what was the date of this event? August 9th, 1999. Literally 31 days later, because on September 10th, 1999, I got sent home.

The reason I got sent home, The reason I got sent home is because on September 9th, exactly 30 days after this night, I sat in my office with Bill Bush, who was my VP of Finance at the time, and I thought, it was wrong, but I thought was a close friend that I could confide in. And I needed to blow off some steam. It was a Thursday, 630 at night. I'm in my office and probably going off pretty frustrated and expressed to Bill Bush that I was done and I was done in that moment in that that evening I had made up my mind that the next day was going to be my last day I confided that in Bill. It was more venting.

I don't think I really planned on resigning. But I was venting a lot. I got home and after having vented to Bill Bush, I felt a little better. Started thinking rationally again. Got home. I called Harvey Schiller. and had meaningful conversation with Harvey,

but I didn't suggest to him I was going to resign. The following morning, I'm on my way to work and I get a phone call from Harvey Schiller. And by the way, Harvey was consoling me. Harvey was trying to convince me, just take a deep breath, relax, we'll work this out. Harvey was a mentor in a way. He was a macro kind of a man.

manager. And he wasn't in my, he wasn't in my business every day. And I didn't have to, you know, very macro style. But at the same time, I respected him. And that's why I called him and shared some of my frustration with him. Harvey assured me, don't worry about it. We'll get through it. The next morning, I get a phone call from Harvey asking me to come to his office and he sends me home. That happened because, in my opinion, Bill Bush, who at that point, I thought was my close friend. You know, on a week, he lived down the road for me. And on a weekend, as we'd jump in my plane, flew to Charleston, had breakfast, and flew home. That kind of a relationship. But that night, Thursday night, 30 days from this evening, Bill Bush went to Vicki Miller, who was the head of finance, Dick Cheatham's boss, went to Vicki Miller, and laid everything out that I had expressed to him in confidence. Mickey calls Harvey Mickey had control Mickey calls Harvey

tells Harvey to make the move 30 days from this evening so I guess that'll probably give you a better context of what I was thinking and how I was feeling

than just about anything I can say now 25 or 30 years later Eric I want to ask you about the Hulk Hogan circumstance here because we've got so many questions about this. Drake wants to know what in your opinion went wrong with Hogan in this

era. I thought after the NWO Hollywood Hogan bringing back the red and yellow just seemed okay at best, but bringing back the red and yellow in WWE just a few years later worked great. Do you think he should have held on to some of the Hollywood components like he did in WWE? No, I don't think so. I think the Hollywood Hogan, I think, it was death by a thought. cuts and we'd gone through 999 of them. It was just not working. And yes, the red and yellow and WCW was anti-climactic at best. Interesting for a moment.

Not compelling. But the reason it worked in WWE was because this was Hulk Hogan coming home in red and yellow. And because he was coming back to WWE and red and yellow. that matters so much more, just had so much more legacy nostalgia factor, which is important, obviously, has always worked. But the fact that it was Hulk Hogan coming back and not only coming back, but coming back in the red and yellow where it all began was the most compelling part of that and why it works so well versus becoming red and yellow again in WCW. Dan Lee wants to know, instead of returning to the red and yellow, did Hulk Hogan consider adopting a third iteration of his character after the NWO Hollywood? No, no.

Hulk was a little bit at this point, like everybody, including me, everybody was kind of like exhausted, emotionally, creatively, strategically, tactically. It was just like, God, oh my, we've tried everything, nothing's working. What are we going to do next? I think with Hulk, it was perhaps in his mind. I don't know that he thought he was going to go back to WWE. He may have had conversations with events. They always had a weird on again, off again, love, hate relationship.

My impression, and certainly reflecting back on conversations, was that he was perfectly fine. We're just walking away from the business altogether. And I think maybe why he wanted one of the reasons, not only, one of the reasons why he wanted to close it out in red and yellow and probably one of of the reasons why he wanted to involve Nick, a little bit of an act of potential closure. We see Dennis Rodman in the ring being interviewed by a mean Gene O'Kerland. He's just got charisma that just jumps off the screen. The fans are excited to see him. They're on their feet.

And he's got an amazing presence in charisma. Even Meltzer would say so. But Meltzer would also say, unfortunately, he has no brain. He said he loved being in Idaho. See, despite his clever remarks, he's supposed to be the face here. Because of his clever remarks, the people stood up to see him, but they didn't cheer for him. Rodman looks like he's about 195 pounds. It's also funny, Rodman's 6'6, and he looks so much taller than wrestlers like Hogan, who say they're 6'8.

Anyway, he called gorgeous George's bitch. As you can imagine, the fans booed that. Gene took his mic away and wouldn't let him talk. I was afraid that Looney Tune might attack Gene. Savage came out. Rodman ran away. Somebody needs to explain to Rodman that an African-American face in front of 100% white crowd doesn't brag about scoring with a white girl and even more that the face doesn't run from the heel.

Boy, was this lame. Well, I don't know if I'd necessarily agree with everything that was written there, but Dennis Rodman's charisma can't be debated. I mean, you just see this presentation even with the sound off and you know, hey, whatever it is, that guy's got it just dripping off of him. Do you remember him being a challenge to wrangle promo-wise or really understand the concepts of heels and baby faces? Or was he more just interested in having fun? He's always interested in having fun. That's kind of like a prerequisite.

But Dennis Rodman had a great instinct. I really don't want to comment too much more on Dave Meltzer because I'm going to go off. on a tangent that none of us want to hear. Okay. But he, that is such a great reflection of what Dave Meltzer understands about entertainment in general. I just, I'm going to let it go with that because otherwise we're going to do another hour and you're going to get pissed off.

Well, I'm not pissed off at you whenever I've got bluechew in my system. I'm not even thinking about you. They're our next sponsor and you know they need no introduction. seen the ads. You've heard us talk about it a million times. And I bet there's a big part of you that wants to try it. Blue Chew, man. It's the OG chewable tablet for better

sex. You know the deal. It's a unique online service that delivers you the same active ingredients as Viagra, the Alice, and the Vitra. But in a fraction of the cost and in a chewable form, the process is simple. Sign up at bluechew.com consult with one of their licensed medical providers. And once you're approved, you'll

receive your prescription within days. Let's use tablets are made right here in the USA prepared and shipped directly to your door and it's all online that's the best part it means no doctor's office no awkward conversation no waiting in line at the pharmacy take them any time day or night so you can plan ahead or be ready whenever an opportunity arises blue chew wants you to have better sex so discover your options at bluechew dot com I tell you you you've never tried it what are you waiting for I mean this is a game changer this is

this is like a hot tag for your wiener this is PEDs for your joint check it out Blue Chew wants the entire country rock hard that's what they told me that's their mission they will not stop until every man is bricked up like a brick house

until every tent is pitched until every rod is raised discover your options at bluechew.com and we've got a special deal for our listeners where you can try Blue Chew free when you use our promo code 83 weeks at checkout just pay $5 shipping That's bluechew.com. The promo code is 83 weeks, and you'll receive your first month free.

It's at bluechew.com for more details and important safety information. And we want to thank Bluechew for sponsoring today's podcast. And this is it, boys and girls. Kevin Nash is in the ring alongside Rick Steiner and Sid Vicious. And when we come back from the break here on Nitro, it's going to be Goldberg, Sting, and the red and yellow Hulk Hogan. By the way, the segment we just watched with Dennis Rodman and Randy Savage, that was head-to-head with Chris Jericho's debut, the countdown for the Y-2J calendar

where the Rock was in the ring doing a promo. So that now-famous debut of Jericho and the Rock in the ring, well, that happened right here, head-to-head with Rodman and Savage. Do you have a ratings comparison for those? segments. I'm just curious. I do. And we'll talk about that. But I wanted to bring up specifically some backstory, because we made mention earlier that Jericho wrote on his website, aren't people tired of seeing DDP on TV? It turns out, here's the backstory. This is according to the observer. Apparently, Paige at one point told Bischoff he'd be able to convince Jericho to sign.

and when Jericho signed with the WWF, Page went on his internet site and said people were making too big of a deal of Jericho leaving, pointing out that Jericho wasn't even a main eventer and had never drawn a buy rate. Of course, that

Jericho didn't like that. So that's the reason he responded. Probably didn't happen either. This is this guy, and people wonder why I think Dave Meltzer has been bad for the wrestling business continues to this day. to be horrible for the business of the wrestling business. For a guy who was a parasite, like a fucking leech,

whose only existence is based on the efforts, success, and risks that others take so that he can sit back and try to convince the world that somehow he knows what he's talking about. A guy has never produced five minutes of fucking television in his life or been involved in the business of the wrestling business. We said nothing more than sit at home and try to live vicarious. because he's such a fucking social geek. But he's convinced him to people that he knows what he's talking about.

And he does it by lying, distorting, misleading, or just making shit up. Documented over and over and over again and exposed on a regular basis on shows like mine, as well as social media in general, including people that read his shit and call him out on it. What a horrible person. he's a weak, insecure, horrible person who overall is cancer to the wrestling industry. He's a mark, and I say that because he hates the use of that word. But if there is a personification, if AI needs an image to go along with the term mark, in case somebody wants to know what it means relative to the wrestling business,

Dave Meltzer's picture should come up. You asked about those quarter hour ratings. It looks like it was a 6.9 for the Rock. And Chris Jericho, it's a 4.4 for Dennis Roderick. It's not as bad as I thought. Could be worse, yeah. Oh, I was expecting to get to be like 1.5 or 2.5 or something. Dennis Rodman is still a big star, man.

I mean, and I mean, it's fucking Randy Savage. Come on. And Randy. And that would have been a fun combination to see a lot more of because their personalities were kind of like, I think Dennis would have brought out the even more intensely crazy Randy Savage. I don't mean to interrupt you, but take a look. Here it is.

Paul Kogan and the red and yellow brother. With the cat's ass logo behind him, it looks weird, doesn't it? And it does. Disappointing. That's one of the last times you're going to see the big gold belt on its original strap from 1986, like that's the original piece of leather that they used. It's going to last another month or so, but by fall brawl. We're on a black leather strap and, man, think about that damn belt had been put through the paces. You know, these days they change the belt out

like every few months. And now, I mean, you can get really, really great replicas that look just like the real thing. But back then, I mean, that belt was debuted by Rick Flair in 1986. and they're still using it 13 and a half years later on the same leather. Isn't that crazy? That is. How does it survive? What happened to the original leather? Where did it go?

Andre Freitas at AFX Studios, who you guys did a lot of work with, he re-leathered it because you can see the side plates are starting to hang off. So it just needs a new strap. So he put a black leather strap on it, and that's the leather that was on it. So he would have kept the. old leather. He kept the old leather and I bought it from him in 2013. He found. Okay. Yeah. So did you, maybe you've told me this before and if you have. I apologize. But did you, did you have a new belt made using the old leather? Uh, no. So I just had the black leather

sitting around on my shelf for years and years behind me on the, uh, in my old Huntsville house. You could see it. It was in the bottom corner. Um, but no, I never put any plates on it at all. Just the, uh, I was excited. to reunite the OG belt with the OG leather and the... Oh, that's cool too. That's a cool display too.

The black leather just sits on a shelf now. Hey, let's talk about where we are house show-wise for WCW. You've got WCW Saturday Night Tapings on August 3rd in Mancato, Minnesota. Did I say that right, Eric? Mankato, but close. Mankato drew 1,141 fans.

That's a house show, though. That's on a TV show. Surprising. It could even do that. It was a Saturday night taping. Okay. Cedar Rapids for a house show did 2008. LaCross, Wisconsin for Thunder did 4,400. El Paso, Texas did 5,200.

Tucson, Arizona is a sellout, 8100. And Phoenix did 9,300. So it's not all doom and gloom for WCW. Yes, there's some weaker houses. there are some events that are still drawn pretty well. We've got lots of more questions about Hulk Hogan and the red and yellow here. The Rosencoaster, I mean, I think he kind of laid this out, this was just Hogan's idea, but he does want to know,

are there any metrics behind turning Hulk back to the red and yellow, like ratings or merch sales or focus group feedback? Or was this more of a, let's throw it against the wall and see if it sticks creative decisions, with all due respect, of course. It would be more to the, I mean, there was no research. There was no focus group. there was no time. Again, desperation is the word of the day here covering the show. It would be like the captain of the Titanic deciding to do some research as to whether or not

it was a good idea to be saying they crossed the North Atlantic after he hit the iceberg. No, it was just make a move. Hope it works. Gareth wants to know, do you regret not having the Babyface Hogan versus Heel Nash a month earlier at Bash at the Beach. It would have seemed to have perfect symmetry from them having joined forces exactly three years ago to form the NWO. It feels like it should have happened on a bigger pay-per-view than Road Wild. That's interesting. I never really thought about that. But Bash at the Beach 96 is where they joined forces and it all came together. Three years later, Bash at the Beach 99, them squaring off could have been cool. I like that story, but we're just

one month too late doing it with the benefit of hindsight. Do you like that idea better? Such a great idea. Yeah. Such a great idea. You know, it's like almost any product or even service, if it's got a good story, the consumer will check it out. Yes. It's like Mando, you know, the deodorant that we sponsored or that sponsors us here

83 weeks. Love the product, by the way. I'm actually going to try to interview the woman that created it because I think her story is fascinating. And because her story is fascinating and the problem, product is good. I am a huge fan. And I think the same can be said for a lot of consumer products that have a great story behind. And I think the scenario that the listener just laid out would have been such a more interesting story than otherwise random reasoning for doing it now

or in August. So great, great idea. It would have required some kind of advanced creative discussion probably four or five months before Bash of the Beach. So we were well behind the curve in that respect. But what a great idea. I love hearing that. Chris wants to know, did Hulk ever want to have a rematch with Goldberg, even though he went to the red and yellow? What do you think about that? Goldberg versus red and yellow, Hulk Hogan. That could have been fun. No, no, that would have not worked. I don't even finish. Nope, nope, that wouldn't work.

Nope. Sean has a fun question. I know you're going to laugh when you hear it. I think we're going to land in the same space you and I. Sean wants to know, did Hulk have a thing against chair shots? There's multiple instances where he, quote, unquote, delivered a chair shot, but he hit the opponent like he was swinging a feather. Was he anti-chair shot?

Absolutely not. It's one of the things that used to drive me crazy about him sometimes is he'd want to use chairs. And for the same reason that the viewer here, a listener who made the comment, I just, I hated it when he did it. So no, he actually liked the use of chairs, the idea of it. But you may have heard me say this before, even privately. Paul Kogan is one of the kindest, gentlest people I've ever met. He is the guy that would refuse to swat a fly. He just would rather get away from the fly and let the fly be on its way.

He's just that guy. And although, and that's so weird because especially, you know, when he was in his prime, he was far more than capable of being a very dangerous. person. He was a big guy, grew up in Port Tampa, which was not like a suburb. It wasn't like a, you know, quaint little picket fence, Ozzie and Harriet neighborhood. He was a tough guy, and he physically was capable. But you will never meet a gentler person. And more than anything, he was too cautious. He didn't want to hurt anybody. He was very, very cautious. Very careful not to hurt people.

we should mention that Meltzer loved this presentation of Hulk Hogan. Well, maybe he didn't love it, but he's super complimentary. He would say that Hogan was over like crazy and totally overshadowed Goldberg and Sting, and the match was set up to make sure that would happen. Goldberg on the apron, whose pops are way down since they gave him the new entrance music, almost looked in awe of Hogan's response. I mean, fans, I mean, you see them, they're all standing. Like, it does feel like a special attraction whenever we would get red and yellow Hulk Hogan.

I'm wondering, do you think there could have been an opportunity to perhaps use the red and yellow Hulk Hogan in a way that was similar to how we saw Finn Bauer once upon a time do Finn Baller and then he would turn into the demon? Because when we had red and yellow Hulk Hogan every week, it did feel like it burned the fans out and they weren't with it. We go, evil Hulk Hogan, business gets set on fire. things are maybe down and people are sort of

going through the motions with black and white Hulk Hogan. We bring back red and yellow they're all on their feet. Was the key to using the red and yellow do you think with the benefit of hindsight to use it sporadically?

I don't know that that would have worked. Maybe it's a cool idea. I mean, I love the idea of kind of a schizo Hulk. You never know which one you're going to get. The idea on paper, say kind of makes sense. I don't know.

Might have worked. It sure would have been an interesting discussion to have it, especially at this point when we were desperately looking for something that would move the needle and get us a little momentum. And perhaps that would have been in. I'm not sure how Hulk would have felt about that. It's not really consistent with his approach to the business. But maybe.

Sting, tying up. Big sexy Kevin Nash here with a scorpion death lock. Hulk Hogan running around with a chair in his hand. Referee Scott Dickinson's going to come in to check on Kevin Nash, who's playing dead. There it is. Nash is out. Scorpion death lock is the finish. Our heroes are victorious.

Melzer would say, Bischoff wanted Hogan to turn heel this past week, saying the face turn hadn't worked and pointing to the ratings. Hogan's doing the red and yellow on Monday was a step to try to prove Bisholm. off wrong because he didn't want to turn back so quickly. At one point Bischoff wanted to book a heel Hogan beating Brent Hart for the main

event Nitro in Las Vegas rather than saving it for fall bra like originally planned. That seems to have fallen apart though. It's hard as said it's been training like crazy for his comeback recognizing he has a lot to prove to everyone that there's no definitive time or even a

definite program for him anymore. Do you remember that being the case that it was supposed to be Hogan and Brett at Fall Brawl and Plans Change? No. Again, Dave Meltzer, I'm sure, talking to somebody with an agenda or making shit up or a combination of the two. But, you know, the idea that I had a conversation with, Hawkeny was we were on opposite ends of a strategy with regard to his character. It's absolute bullshit.

Just absolutely made up fictional nonsense. That has really defined the Dave Meltzer brand. I got to say I do kind of agree with Hulkster if it was his idea to go red and yellow. If you're going to be a heel, Hulk Hogan, be black and white. But if you're going to be a baby face, Hulk Hogan, be red and yellow. I think that is easier to follow. I mean, I think when I see Hulk Hogan in the black, I just assume, oh, he's a heel. Because I was so, I'm so familiar with red and yellow Hulk Hogan to be the hero, right?

Yeah, and I think in order, I mean, if this was a creative kind of collaboration right now, and we're deciding whether or not to kind of move forward with an idea like this, with someone like Hulk or Hulk, red and yellow, black and white, okay, that's the visual change. Okay, we know that. That's going to create, you know, that's a trigger. That's going to create some anticipation. But the character also has to change. It can't be just what you're wearing to the ring.

There has to be an internal change. It has to be a completely different character in order for something like that to be interesting for a long term. Otherwise, it's just today I'm wearing yellow. Tomorrow I'm wearing black and white. And I'm going to do a heel finish when I'm wearing black and white and I'm going to be a baby face when I'm wearing yellow. That can be interesting for about a month unless that character, whether it be Hulk or somebody else, is able to bring an entirely new kind of an internal character

to go along with the external, the obvious external part. I don't think Hulk had that. I don't think that was something that would have been comfortable for Hulk at that point in time. Aaron Sheen's with us live and he wants to know, do you think for Dennis Rodman will wind up in the WWE Hall of Fame and James Sorensen wants to know who should induct him into the WWE Hall of Fame. I say Eric Bischoff, what say you?

Paul Kogan. Oh, wow, that'd be fun. Yeah, that would be fun. Will it ever happen? I don't know. It should because I think Dennis deserves a lot of credit. I know the Dave Meltzers of the world will find a million ways to criticize him. But again, for WCW, was it our Mike Tyson moment?

No. Was it in the same ballpark? Dennis Dennis brought a lot to the table. Dennis made it easier for me to get other top level celebrities. Dennis opened up a lot of doors. So, yeah, I'd like to see him get inducted

and I'd love to see Hulk Hogan do the inducting. They'd be great. You're talking about opening doors. Well, next year we're going to be busting through the wall, Daddy. We're watching that classic clash of the champions with the Shockmaster debut. you next week here on 83 weeks. Can't wait to watch this with Eric.

Can't wait to bust his balls. It's going to be a lot of fun. Join us at 83 weeks.com. It's your home for all things, Eric Bischoff. You can also ask us questions here on the show on our YouTube, but if you want to interact with us on social media, well, that's easy too. It's at 83 weeks on Twitter, Instagram or Facebook.

Eric is pretty active on Twitter as well. It's at E. Bischoff. I am at Hey, hey, hey, it's Conrad. You can see Eric's Life on Instagram at the Reef. real Eric Bischoff. I am at Hey Hey, it's Conrad Thompson. If you haven't already, leave us a rating wherever you enjoy podcast. Throw us a five stars if you think we've earned it. And if you're looking to grow your business, well, there's no better place to advertise than right here with us at advertise with Eric.com. You can also pick up Eric's book over on Amazon. Grateful. I've seen some really, really great responses from that recently. And of course, his tag team partner has recently helped with Dave Penzer sitting ringside. So lots of good rassling reading out there. days. Eric, I got a question here

that I think you might should address on wise choices, which is exclusive to 83 weeks.com. But Anthony D, who is with us

here live from ad-freeshows.com, says after the WBD call yesterday, hashtag fire David Zazlov was trending on

Twitter. Did you hear anything about this? And if so, what is your take? Can we get you to pinky swear that you'll talk

about that on wise choices? Yeah, As a matter of fact, today is Thursday, okay? So by the time people are going to be hearing this, I would have already recorded it because I'll do it live. Today. Thursday.

Thursday. I'll do a wise choices because there's a lot to talk about. I mean, how do you wake up in a morning ago? You know what? Our television networks are worth $9 billion less than we thought. Really? $9 billion dollars less than you thought. I get it's an accounting, it's TBGB,

It's like Kabuki fucking accounting That is a reason for this Yeah, I've been there I've lived through that I know all about your creative accounting It's part of business Happens every day, it's legal It's just weird

I just, it's bizarre to me I don't know why everybody wants to pick on David Zazlov But yeah It's a whole weird situation I'm going to talk about Tony Kahn and him Putting over Mr. David

Zasloff and thanking Mr. David Zazzov for inviting me to Paris and partaking the Olympics and we have a bright future together. This is a guy who is supposedly now negotiating with other networks. I don't know, man. The whole thing is kabuki freaking weird from Porter Brother Discovery situation with the NBA. They're suing the NBA. Are we waiting to make an announcement regarding AEW based on the litigation surrounding NBA, which is probably going to take five years to settle? Or is Wonder Brothers Discovery going to end up selling off for parts, which is a rumor amongst certain people that I am connected with

at a very high level in the entertainment business. That's the suggestion. So there's a lot to talk about, wise choices. 83 weeks.com. We're going to be doing it. if you haven't already go check it out it's totally free hit that subscribe button turn on your notifications bill 83 weeks.com is your home for all things eric bischoff and i can't wait for next week the shock master right here on 83 weeks dot com save with conrad dot com my name is doug gustafson and we are from columbus ohio first learned of conrad through his podcast network i'm a big 83 weeks and probably got into a little bit more credit card debt than what we wanted to during the course of the pandemic.

We wanted to get rid of some of that. My wife and I had luckily bought the house many years ago and had quite a bit of equity built up in that. We are looking to actually redo our bathroom, things around the house that we wanted to do with the other equity that we have left over. We've been talking about refinancing forever, and I finally just took the plunge and called the number, got a hold of them, and from start to finish, it was just fantastic. I had Diane within the day. The communication with her was fantastic. The process moved quicker than I could have ever hoped.

My name is Doug Gustafen from Columbus, Ohio. I ended up saving $800 a month. It was saved with Conrad, and am able to also update our bathroom. NMLS number 2129, Equal Housing Lender. SavewithConrad.com.