83 Weeks with Eric Bischoff - Episode 342: AEW Finalizes A TV Deal

Episode Date: October 4, 2024

On this episode of 83Weeks with Eric Bischoff, Eric and Conrad discuss AEW's brand new TV deal with Warner Brothers Discovery. Eric also disputes claims that he said the company would never get a new television deal. The guys also discuss Eric's newest venture and how it could change your life, the upcoming WWE Badd Blood PLE card, and more AEW news and notes. GAMETIME - Take the guesswork out of buying tickets with Gametime. Download the Gametime app, create an account, and redeem code WEEKS for $20 off your first purchase (terms apply). Download Gametime today. What time is it? Gametime. LUMEN - Take the next step in improving your health, go to https://www.lumen.me/83WEEKS to get 15% off your Lumen.  BLUECHEW - Try BlueChew FREE when you use our promo code 83WEEKS at checkout--just pay $5 shipping. That’s https://bluechew.com/, promo code 83WEEKS to receive your first month FREE ROCKET MONEY - Cancel your unwanted subscriptions – and manage your money the easy way – by going to https://www.rocketmoney.com/83WEEKS SAVE WITH ERIC - Stop throwing your money on rent! Get into a house with NO MONEY DOWN and roughly the same monthly payment at https://www.savewithconrad.com/savewitheric/ ADVERTISE WITH ERIC - If your business targets 25-54 year old men, there's no better place to advertise than right here with us on 83 Weeks. You've heard us do ads for some of the same companies for years...why? Because it works! And with our super targeted audience, there's very little waste. Go to https://www.podcastheat.com/advertise now and find out more about advertising with 83 Weeks. Join this channel to get access to perks: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCCqQc7Pa1u4plPXq-d1pHqQ/join BECOME A 83 WEEK MEMBER NOW: https://www.youtube.com/@83weeks/membership Get all of your 83 Weeks merchandise at https://boxofgimmicks.com/collections/83-weeks Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Hey, hey, it's Conrad Thompson, and you're listening to 83 weeks with Eric Fish Shalbert. What's going on, man? How are you? So good. I'm just, I'm almost afraid. Like, could it get any better than this? If so, I can't wait.

I feel great. It's, you know, part of this is without question. my favorite time of year and we've had a really amazing fall so far it's in the 70s every day sunshine and leaves are turning it's just absolutely beautiful it makes me feel bad for the people obviously the southeast part of the country that are going through such a devastating time right now but right here in my little neck of the woods it's uh it's about perfect well and then there was that breaking news that well let the internet wrestling community

on fire I can't believe this is real but it's what everybody's been talking about and it's finally time for you to respond and for us to address the elephant in the room that everybody's ready for

Eric Bischoff is a licensed mortgage loan originator what in the world Eric is this real save with Eric.com is a real thing? It is such a real thing. And honestly, you know, you and I both know, I've been working with you and learning from you and your team. You've got a fantastic team. And I've been learning, really, I've been licensed for the last two and a half years and have really enjoyed learning the process. And I've helped quite a few people out kind of under the radar and done some

mortgages. But this is going to be, now it's official. I've spent three years learning from you and beginning to understand your industry in a way that allows me to help other people, the same way, quite honestly, you and your team helped Lori and I when we were in a kind of a tight bind and I had no idea that I would be able to refinance and get my financial house in order, so to speak, after a really devastating couple of years, starting in around 2014-15, and to be able to turn my life around financially, especially never imagining that it would be possible because I didn't know and I didn't understand the options.

And now that I'm able to do the same thing for other people and have, it's such a rewarding opportunity and I'm so grateful for it. But yeah, I can't wait to dig in full time, have at it, and help a lot of people because especially now, this is a tough time financially for a lot of people. And there are people out there that have options and can improve their financial situation, just like Lori and I did with your help, obviously. And to be in a position to do that for other people is I'm just really grateful for it,

to you and your team and for the opportunity. What a crazy story it was, too. I mean, when you first reached out and we had a conversation about your particular circumstance, and I was able to run the numbers and tell you exactly how much we would. would be able to save and the way it would work and how we would structure it you kind of thought it sounded almost too good to be true and then once it actually became a thing and you guys were saving all that cash i could see your wheels turning like hey uh how does all this work and and here we are man you went out and you did the heavy lifting you took the classes you took the test you got yourself

licensed and you're right you've been licensed since to uh 2021 and so here we are now all this time later finally making it official, sort of your coming out party, if you can hear my voice and you've got credit card debt, Eric Bischoff can help you get a better deal. I say that because, Eric, I've been having a lot of conversations with people lately who are positioning themselves as being rate conscious. Well, you know, I got this great rate back in 2021. I can't let that go. Okay, I'll hear you. But aren't you maxed out on some credit cards at like 28 and 31 percent? Like mathematically, when you run the numbers on getting a better rate and at the same time a greater tax deduction, we were routinely able to help families who are struggling, who are stuck making minimum payments, say five, six, seven, even $800 a month. And Eric, you saved thousands of dollars a month, isn't that right?

Well, not to get too granular, as Jeff Chair likes to say, but not only did I save thousands of dollars a month. It enabled me to pay off a massive debt to the IRS, which is really one of the reasons I had a Chapter 11 back in 2017. And not only was I able to pay off that, I had a six-year Chapter 11 payoff plan because a Chapter 11 is a little different than other forms of bankruptcy in that you have to pay 100% of the debt. You have more time to do it and you restructure it, but you still have to pay. a hundred percent of whatever debt you had. I had a six-year plan. I was able to pay it off in three years, completely out of that Chapter 11,

which is a business bankruptcy, completely out of that and really able to stabilize my life. And here's the interesting part. I was one of those people that at the time in 2000, whatever year it was, we refied, probably 2020, I think. not only able to pay off all my previous obligations, get out from a Chapter 11,

and basically stabilize myself financially, but I was one of those people that had a three-half or less interest rate at the time, probably 3.25, but it was an adjustable rate mortgage. Had I not refinanced, had you not come into my life and show me and teach me how I could restructure my situation, that 3% interest rate at the time or whatever it was would be up around 7 or 8. And it would have crushed us. So the timing was perfect. We were blessed, frankly. That's the way I look at it. And completely turned things around. And the interesting part is I never would have known. It didn't even occur to me that it was possible because I didn't understand. I wasn't looking at things like consumer debts and how much

I was paying for consumer debts and what would happen if I was able to make that go away and put all my resources and everything into the mortgage. And once you showed me that, I realized that yeah, that three and a half percent mortgage looks really good. But I've got all these other obligations that are really crushing me more than my mortgage. And to be able to restructure all of that, like I say, it was a blessing. And I'll always be grateful for that. We can help you out too, whether you're looking to buy or get a lower monthly payment. Maybe you need to skip a couple of house payments. Maybe you want to get rid of all your credit card debt. Maybe you'd like to get some cash to turn your house into your dream home with no money out of pocket. Upgrade those

bathrooms and kitchens. Well, we can help at save witherick.com. I can't believe this is real, but yes, W.W.E. Hall of Famer Eric Bischoff, now licensed to help you save your money on your mortgage. Check it out. Save witheric.com MLS number 2129. Hey, I know that, you know,

we're doing a little tongue-in-cheek deal there, and I thought, hey, we're going to have a bunch of people who are tuning in for this, might as well. The other big announcement that everybody is really waiting on here. Shout out to Justin Barrasso for breaking that story on you being in the mortgage bills, by the way. Appreciate what Justin's doing. Absolutely. Even outside the tent of Sports Illustrated.

Talk to me a little bit about what you make of this news. AEW has a new television deal, and boy, it feels like a lot of people are coming for you, and they're putting words in your mouth, and they're saying, oh, these stupid podcasters are going to be embarrassed. They're going to have to hide their head now. Oh, we got a dunk on them. Oh, look at them, cope. And I sort of leaned into it a little bit last night because I saw what mine in your timeline was getting littered with. So I posted kind of a fun tongue-in-cheek image because I knew everybody would be waiting to hear what you said.

But before we get on our heels and get defensive about some of these allegations, I wanted to play a clip of what you actually said about AEW getting a TV deal. So let's listen to this clip and we'll be right back. so listen we do want to talk about this TV deal you know there's been a report out that you know they're getting really really close and Tony con had this to say this is the most important and exciting time in AEW's history in addition to what's happening in the ring there are so many exciting things happening behind the scenes at AEW right now we're on the verge of the most important announcements in the history of AEW there are multiple aspects

The arrival of those announcements is imminent. We'll have big news that could come at any time. Isn't that the best kind of wrestling surprise when you know something is coming and you won and it's exciting? But you're not sure when it's going to happen. You have that feeling that it's going to happen. And in this case, I have more than a feeling, to paraphrase Boston. I've been working on this for a long time. We have a great team here.

The future of AEW is very bright. And of course, a lot of people are taking this to me. he's talking about the TV deal, perhaps the Australia deal, and the Dallas deal. There's been a lot of discussion, and you've been talking a little bit about it on your YouTube channel at 83 weeks.com with your program-wise choices. What do you make of this tease about the new TV deal, Eric? It's the same thing. How long have we been hearing about this? I mean, I watched a clip yesterday, I think, on social media where Jay Meltzer and Brian Alvarez are on their radio show.

and Dave Meltzer is basically saying the deal is done. It's going to be announced. It's imminent. It's going to be announced at the up fronts. Just clear as a bell. Like he had the information. He did his research. Dave did his thorough research because, you know, he's a journalist.

It's bullshit. It's all bullshit. That's what I mean. I can't believe anything. I don't think that Tony Khan is intentionally misleading people. And there's a fine line between great promotions. and misleading, right? You've got to be careful.

But, again, it's the boy that has cried wolf so many times and failed to show up with even a poodle, a puppy. You can only cry wolf so many times and then show up with stray dogs and expect people to get excited about your shit. that's that's the that's the you know bill gober we're talking about the similarities between tony con and dixie carter and you know bill hasn't really worked with either one of them but you don't have to spend a lot of time with either one of them to know what motivates them and it's attention that's the one thing that dixie carter and tony con really have in common

and it's a dominant you know it's a dominant part of their personality at least when they're you know in their wrestling environment is the need of for attention supersedes the need for logic so I know whatever TV look I think they'll probably get one I've never been of the mindset that you know they're done they're never going to get another TV deal with Warner Brothers I've never ever said that I challenge anybody to find even a clip of me saying something like that within within the context of the conversation because I've never seen out what do people attribute that to you because you know this conversation comes up I see a

lot of people tagging you like, what will Eric say then after he said it's never coming? And I'm thinking, I'm pretty sure I did most of these shows with you. And I never remember you saying that. No, I've never said it. Dave Belzer has said that I've said it. But you didn't. But no, I never have.

So here we are again. People are saying that you said, oh, well, there's never going to be another AW deal. It's over. Nobody's going to give them an AEW deal. You've never said anything of the sort. I actually remember you saying something along the lines once of, hey, it'll continue to exist in some form in the same way T&A exists.

The gist of that being, hey, yeah, TNA still exists. It's just not what it once was and maybe not what people hoped it would be. But you've never, ever said they weren't getting a deal. But boy, that sure is what everybody's beating their drum about on social media right now. what do you make of that?

Well, first of all, you know, the people that are the loudest and most active in social media with regard to some of the stuff are, how do I say it, needy? You know, they need to win so bad. And, like, it, it, because, I hate to even use the word tribalism because we just hear it so often. It's, well, but to the extent. extent that Dave, people like Dave Meltzer, including Dave, who's leading the charge, and Tony, who's also leading the charge, they're co-conspirators in the tribalism game, to be honest, in my opinion, they just need to feel like their team got to win.

And they did. Look, let's be honest. And one more note on this, I not only predicted that they would not get a deal with Warner Brothers Discovery, I suggested many times that they probably would. I've also said that it won't make any difference because the show is going to be what the show is. The deterioration of the audience is going to be what the deterioration has been. If you look at some of the information that Brandon Thurson from Russellnomics published even this morning, it's right there in black and white, folks. So unless Tony takes advantage of this opportunity reconfigures his approach to the industry, I don't. I don't. Look, it's a win.

Can't look at this any other way. It's an opportunity. The important part now is what does Tony do with it? Does he continue the way he has been and continue to hemorrhage audience and ticket sales? I don't know. It'll be interesting to see. But I'm happy for Tony, number one, it's got to be a big load off his back. I'm happy after seven months of teasing this, as I said in that clip, we've been hearing about this,

the imminent deal where I go back at least seven months when when John Elba and I decided that you know why the strictly business effort just the timing wasn't right becoming too much of a schedule conflict for me and we just decided to to stop doing it for I mean it was fun and I liked working with John and it was successful financially and all that but it was just too much for me at the time. And then Tony came out immediately and suggested this is back in March. I actually looked at it this morning, knowing we were going to talk about this. It was back in March when Tony said,

it's a good time for Eric to, you know, sunset, this fraud of a podcast with the imminent announcement or whatever he said. That was seven months ago. I'm glad it finally happened. You know, it took the gestation period, you know, of a human to give birth almost. I'm glad it finally happened and now let's see what they do with it. It's an interesting situation. I noticed that CW and NXT made the announcement yesterday. They delivered 895,000 viewers with a whatever I don't remember 18 to 49 was, but it was a hugely successful debut. That's their C show. That's their developmental roster outperforming Dynamites A show with

what I would consider a $100 million talent budget, it's going to be interesting. I don't think that $895,000 is going to hold up. Premiers are generally a lot higher than the program averages as they play out over the rest of the year. But, you know, there's only a certain amount of wrestling advertising dollars out there for television. And with CW now doing what it appears that they could be doing

and the WWEC show outperforming potentially the Dynamite A show and quite honestly just being a more advertiser-friendly environment, it's going to put even more pressure on AEW and it's going to put more pressure on Warner Brothers Discovery from an ad sales perspective. So it'll be fun to watch how this plays out. Also, you know, take a look at Brandon Thurston's projections. This came out a couple days ago, I don't have it handy, and I didn't forward it to Dave, but took a look at, you know, that proposed $170 million deal. I noticed yesterday it was $150. But if you look at that $150 million deal, which is a great deal, I got zero for licensing fees at WCW, not a, not a nickel. But it'll be interesting to take a look at the economics of AEW, whether or not they're going to be able to

become a profitable company, given the expenses that they have. I don't think they will, not for a long time, especially in today's environment, particularly with the deterioration of the audience, live attendance, pay-per-view, buy rates, all that stuff. So it'll be fun to watch. I hope Tony takes advantage of this opportunity and realizes that his dream match scenario, and he's come out and said, you know, long-term work, he doesn't work anymore. Well, he wouldn't know because he's never tried it. It'll be really interesting to see what happens. We'll have a lot to talk about for the next three years.

That's the good news. We're going to have a blast talking about AEW for the next three years. Well, a quote like that can be attributed to Tony Cohen. I don't know that he said it publicly, but I do remember hearing that he said it privately, or at least there were reports of that. But he did have a long-term story with Hangman and another long-term story with Tony Storm and Mariah May. are long-term stories. I do want to circle back to something you said a minute ago, though, when you said, you know, now he can focus on the deterioration of the product. And of course,

you're talking about ratings and ticket sales. And I get that. But isn't it logical that he would have focused all of his efforts on securing this next television deal? Because without this, none of that other shit matters anyway. This is the main revenue source. So you should secure this first and then worry about, you know, everything else, right? We'll see. You know, I can't get inside of Tony's head. I think that's impossible. Can't relate to his approach to the business, so I don't know.

I mean, I can only, what would I have done if I was Tony, and I was in the midst of negotiating this renewal? I would throw everything I had at the products. I would do everything I possibly could to get those numbers up. It only makes sense. It's just common sense. What does that mean going forward? I don't know. we'll see you know there's no more big stars assigned there's no more hype there's no more

game changers you know free agents they're going to be able to bring into the equation that are really going to matter because none of none of the previous ones have either i mean i think mercedes is got to be one of the biggest financial miscalculations in terms of talent deals in the history of professional wrestling the numbers have crashed since he showed up her her stock has gone so far down and she was a big she was a big sign that was that potentially could have been a big deal and it was the opposite so i don't know what tony's going to do um he got his deal let's see i hope for the best i really do he's got the assets he's got the human resources

creative resources he's got the right people that could be in place i just hope he does something with him. I hope he recognizes that his approach to creative is just not working no matter how excited Dave Meltzer gets about it or Tony gets excited about. Those are the only two people that are. And it's not just my opinion. It's backed up with data. And Tony's a data analyst. You think he would look at that and go home. I know I like looking this way, but evidently the audience doesn't. We'll see. Well, we'll see if you're trying to get to bad blood this weekend in Atlanta. I don't think there's any tickets available for that.

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And then, bam, you're going to have a great deal. That really is the way it works. And here's how I know that's the way it works. I've done it. I did it for my daughter. We've talked about it before here on the program. There's a lot of Del Rey at the Orion Amphitheater completely sold out. Another ticketing site had one set of tickets on the very last row,

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time just download the game time app create an account and use the code weeks for $20 off your first purchase terms apply again create an account and redeem the code weeks that's w eke s for $20 off download game time today what time is it game time so eric we do have some details overnight, Dave Meltzer did Wrestling Observer Radio and he clearly has the inside track on some of the details of this AEW deal or he's led us to believe he does.

He's reporting that it's $185 million a year when you average it across three years that the first year is less than 185 but by the time he gets to year three, that's the average and there is a fourth year option that is reportedly

much higher than 185 So I know Variety originally reported it was in the 150 range, but 185, man, that feels like a home run. Does that exceed your expectations of what you thought at first? You know, I didn't really give it much thought of what the deal might look like, to be honest. Again, this is, if I'm going to list, if I'm going to believe, if there's two reports, one is from Variety and one is from Dave Meltzer, guess who I'm going to believe? I think Dave is so twisted mentally and emotionally and so tied to the success or failure of AEW because I think AEW and what Tony Kahn is doing is Dave Meltzer's dream. It's Tony is doing what Dave has always thought would be the most successful way to produce wrestling.

And of course, Dave Meltzer doesn't know anything about producing wrestling. He doesn't know anything about the business of the wrestling business. Despite how much he tries to convince people that he's a student of the business, he's a clown. And he cherry picks the things that fit into, that he reads or hears that fits into his aspirations for AEW, regardless of how accurate they are and spins the fuck out of it. So I don't take anything Dave Meltzer has to say at face value because he's a proven, I don't want to say a liar.

I think lies, I don't think he lies intentionally. I just think his judgment and his perspective is so fucking twisted because he is that nothing that he says to me brings true. Now, he may have some insight. He may because Tony and Dave are so obviously close. And perhaps he's right, not saying he's wrong, but I just don't take it at face value. In terms of the, you know, again, you look at $170 million, let's just between $150,000 and $185.

So let's just call it $170 million. That's a lot of money. It's a lot of money. But you look at the cost of producing shows. Brandon Thurston had it around $600, $650,000 an episode. That's a lot of money. You look at the talent roster, which, you know, I'm, I believe is in excess of $100 million.

You look at travel, you look at administration, you look at marketing costs. And even there are no ticket. Ticket sales are a joke. They're almost not existent. They put 4,000 people in a venue and I'm guessing probably 2,000 of them are either the result of a two for one or paper or whatever. That's really not much revenue from a live event standpoint. So what Tony, all Tony really has is.

is television licensing and pay-per-view revenues. Nothing else. There's other dollars there, but it's so ancillary, it's so minimal, that it probably doesn't factor much into the bottom line. But again, Brandon Thurson, this is not Eric Bischoff, Brandon Thurston did his analysis. And, you know, I don't know Brandon. I mean, I know him. I've had him on the show, strictly business a couple of times.

He's a very thorough guy. He doesn't seem to me to have a lot of personal investment in the way he reports, like Dave does. But according to Brandon Thurston, based on his breakdowns, you know, AW lost $37 million last year. Don't know if that's accurate. But even if it's close, I don't think that this new deal is going to change much, given the extraordinary talent budget that he has and the lack of revenue that he's generating with it. That $170 million a deal will probably get him, to a break-even point where he can become profitable. But I don't think my guess is, it's all it is as a guess based on, you know,

anecdotal information and a little bit of experiences and some things that are public. I don't think he's making any money and I don't think he will in a near future because, again, the numbers continue to deteriorate. Well, you did bury the lead a little bit. I mean, you said it and it won't be popular and it won't get. It shared around and quoted and reported everywhere, but it is a win, and there's no other way to categorize this as a win for AEW. Let's talk about some of the other facets of the deal. I did want to ask, you know, if the rumors are correct and the reports are true, we haven't seen a lot in an official capacity, but it's a three-year deal with a fourth-year option.

Are you surprised it wasn't a one-year deal or a five-year deal? Can you talk us through the logic of three years? hard to say because again i don't know anybody at wbd but a three-year deal with an option is a pretty solid deal i mean i i'm surprised it wasn't a two-year deal um but let's also keep in mind because here are the things that no one is talking about whether they have access to the information or not what else is in that deal are there thresholds in that deal is this a three-year deal with a four-year option if ADEW hits certain thresholds? Because then that three-year deal could be a no-year deal. Possibly. I've entered into a number of agreements that had thresholds in them.

So you have to perform. And if you fail to perform according to the terms of the agreement and the thresholds in it, you're back to renegotiating. There's so much more that goes into a deal than the dollar figure. And in this case, the term, timing of it. And we won't know that. That won't become public, nor should it, frankly. Like I said, you said it. It's hard to analyze it anymore because none of us have any accurate information.

It's a win. It's an opportunity. And now let's just sit back and see what happens. There's a question mark about the pay-per-view side of it as well. and I don't think that that's a bad thing. I just think they're trying to figure it out. That'll be an interesting component of this as well. It's going to be interesting to see what all they post on HBO Max.

You know, we've been led to believe that you'll be able to stream the Wednesday show, which is not a might, the Saturday show, which is collision. Both of those will continue as live properties. But they'll also have paper views, and the story we're getting is they'll be discounted. You'll be able to buy them at a cheaper price on HBO Max than you would if you bought the pay-per-view from, say, Triller or somewhere else. We're also led to believe that the archives for AEW are going to be on HBO Max. So if you want to go back and watch an old pay-per-view or perhaps watch an old TV show, an old episode of Dynamite or what have you, there will be a place to do that.

As a wrestling fan, those are value ads. I mean, what do you think about this, the proposition of AEW being on HBO Max? Do you think that is going to be viable for HBO Max? Like, will a new audience be introduced to HBO Max where, hey, maybe they liked the Sopranos back in the day. And maybe they liked Hard Knocks back in the day, but they don't have the service now. But, hey, if you got to get AEW, okay, I'm going to HBO Max. Do you see any value in that cross-pollinization of wrestling? fans like you know it's possible i mean let's just at 33,000 feet kind of looking down

AEW's got about 700,000 active TV viewers a certain percentage of those may not have HBO let's say half don't have HBO so there's about potentially 350,000 new customers for HBO max that aren't currently subscribing and I think 50% has been very, very optimistic. But let's just use that number. So you've got about 350,000 people that, approximately, that may subscribe to HBO because they're not currently subscribers. I don't know how to value that.

I don't know what the metrics looks like on that and how valuable that is. But it's not like, you know, you're going to have, in the case of WWE, millions of people that potentially a percentage of those would convert. So I just don't know how big it is for HBO. Again, we're going to find out. I don't know how much of that stuff has ever made public. So people like Dave Meltzer and Tony kind of spin the fuck out of it. But it doesn't matter.

It's a part of the bigger picture. It's a small portion in this case, the pay-per-view side of it with HBO Max. I shouldn't say that. It's not a small portion. In Tony's case, it's probably the second most important revenue stream. There's no way of knowing, Conrad, and I don't like to guess about things like that. I just don't know enough about HBO's business model or what their expectations would be. It does interest me, though, that the pay-per-views are going to be available on other platforms,

but at a reduced rate on HBO Max. That's interesting. We'll find out. You know, what are the average buy rates on an AEW pay-per-view somewhere around 100,000, 125,000? Yeah, that sounds about right. Yeah, if that, if let's say 70%, 60% of those people opt for the cheaper, and they probably will, not only because it's a discounted price, but because it's, hey, a new place to watch. And it's HBO, and HBO has a powerful brand. HBO has been one of the leaders in streaming for a long, long time.

So it'll be, it'll just be interesting and it's so hard to analyze something that I know so little about when it comes to their business model. You know, just thinking about pay-per-view splits, Eric, as you know, a lot of times the platform, boy, they're going to take a big rip. I mean, once upon a time, we used to believe that WCW would get roughly full. 50% of the pay-per-view. So if it was a $30 pay-per-view, you know, $295, then roughly $15 would go to WCW. And the other $15 is going to go to the cable providers. Right. You know, your local piece, but certainly, you know, the home office, if you will, corporate is going to get their rip.

It does make sense. Like I felt like this is the reason Triller purchased fight back in the day. They had that Jake Paul fight. They had that Mike Tyson silly fight with Roy Jones, Jr. it exceeded all expectations. And I bet that they saw the rip and they said, hey, where did half of our money go? Well, it's because you have to pay this pay-per-view provider.

So the next thing you know, Triller bought fight and now it's called Triller TV. So they keep all that. So I'm saying all that to say. It does make sense if now all that money goes to AEW and Warner Brothers Discovery and you're sort of cutting out in the third party because HBO has that OTT technology and the ability to do that, I bet even at a discounted price, they wind up netting more money is where I was getting here. They, you mean HBO or AEW?

HBO and AEW, I mean, because what I'm saying is perhaps AEW winds up netting the same, whether they did a triller buy or they did an HBO max buy, because there's all that triller margin, all that payperview.com, all that direct TV margin, that. that normally would go to one of those cable providers. Now it's going to HBO Max. HBO Max is going to do better on that than they would. I just see, I see some synergies there.

And I don't see that as a natural. I agree with you. I agree with you. And I think if there's, again, I'm guessing I'm a city so far outside of this thing looking in. But I'm guessing that that was probably one of the more interesting aspects of this deal for Warner Brothers Discovery,

and in this case, HBO, because that is added revenue. That goes right to the bottom line. doesn't currently exist, it goes right to the bottom line, whatever that percentage is. The real interesting part of this is what is AEW's net? If AEW, look, WCW, when I took over WCW management lines, when I became president and things started turning around, I was able to renegotiate our deal with people like DirecTV, for example, because WCW was at a 60-40 split.

We weren't even at 50-50 until probably around 1990. five or six when I renegotiated our deals and we got to 50-50. Now with Warner Bros. Discovery in their licensing deal, and this is the part that we don't know, what does that percentage look like? Is AEW actually making less, are they netting less dollars as a result of this deal? Because they got such a big upfront commitment. And how does that affect their bottom line? Again, without visibility into, the structure of the deal and the details because the devil is in the details much like the thresholds that i refer to the devil and the devil inside of a deal is the small little details

that will never make headlines and never never get discussed publicly but like i said there's i hate to keep saying the same thing it's going to be a fun watch from a business perspective Well, it's going to be fun for me as reading you more of what Dave Meltzer said on Wrestling Observer Radio. He sums it up by saying there's a lot of dumb shits who got really exposed with this TV deal and that Dave has been the punching bag for these clowns for years. But this was a big week for him between this and the Vince McMahon documentary. He goes on to say, Tony Kahn isn't a money mark, even though it's a promotion. with flaws, but has lost some popularity,

the goal is to make money, and now they will be the second most profitable wrestling promotion in the history of the business. Once you're profitable, the term money mark goes out the window, and that is a complete vindication for Tony Con. See what I mean about Dave? I mean, Dave does the second most profitable promotion. I don't know.

depending, and again, when you look at WCW's books, as Dick Cheatham so eloquently and clearly talked about, the guy who was in oversaw financial, the financial aspects of not only WCW, but also other divisions of Turner Broadcasting, when you look at how, take 1997 or 1998, I don't remember which what it was. You know, WCW recorded in excess of 100 million, I believe, between 80 and 100 million of profit. But that didn't, that again was with no licensing fees. And it didn't include the amount of money that was allocated, the profit that was allocated to other divisions of the company. So there was a point in time where WCW was generating about $350 million in revenue. It might have been 1998. And WCW recorded $80 million in profit, EBDA. So that's a pretty

big statement from a dumb shit like Dave Meltzer who doesn't really understand anything other than what he's told and he gets excited about that props him up to make him look smarter. Again, I hear anything that Dave has to say to him. He's just like every other dirtbag in social media that's just trying to get a win. He needs a win so badly because he's been humiliated at being wrong and out and out lying so many times in the last 12 or 18 months that he's made a fool of himself. He has no more credibility. Not that he ever had, but now it's become obvious because it's not just me or Bruce Pritchard or Jim Cornett calling him out on the stupid shit. It's social media. And when people who aren't even in the business can point

out what a fraud, Dave Meltzer is, it's hard to come back from that. I don't think he ever will. He's a clown. He's not a journalist. He doesn't study fuck all. He looks and searches for things that will prop up his fantasy because Dave lives in a fantasy world. He doesn't live in the real world, much like some of the people on social media. That's not a real world. These are not bright people. These are not people that even if there are bright people really think too hard about some of the things they read and say. If it sounds good and it looks like a win for their team, they're going to take it to the bank. And 90% of what they're reading and hearing from people like Dave Meltzer is just Dave Meltzer fantasy stuff. It's humorous. I've gotten to the point

now where it makes me laugh. And it provides some good material from time to time to have fun with. You know, well, something else I wanted to ask you about is, you know, when Meltzer's saying, he's talking about the folks who've said that Tony Kahn is a money mark. I don't remember you ever saying that. I don't think you did. Well, but I may have implied it because it's probably, it's true. I mean, I believe that to be true. He is a money mark. If you don't believe me, ask Mercedes.

Ask some of the, ask Okada. I ask these people that are making $3, $4, $5 million a year who can't draw flies if they rolled themselves in horseshit. That's a money mark. I mean, whatever. It just makes me lie. I can't help it laugh. Well, I mean, the implication is, I mean, the way I've always understood it, is a quote-unquote money mark would run things with no regard for, is this a good business move. going to make money? Are we going to lose money? Like, no thought for the P&L. And they were

okay with losing money because they had fun. Well, that's not what AEW is. Like, they're running a P&L. And maybe they've been in the red, but a lot of new businesses are when they first start up. If he's going to get profit now, by definition, can't be a money mark, right? If, that's a big fucking if, Conrad. If, how is he going to do it? How is he going to do it with 600, thousand viewers in the ad sales that that represents. And I know I've also heard for people, man, you're just out of touch. Television doesn't matter. Ratings don't matter anymore because there's so many other ways to get the product. True. But how do you make money at it? You make some ancillary revenue off things like YouTube and other opportunities. But it's not driving the

business. It's ancillary. It's miniscule. Television advertising and the license. fee that Tony is getting is represented by the success of the television product. Without a television audience, a television network is not going to continue to fund the proposition. Now, evidently, clearly Warner Bros. Discovery is looking at the AEW business model and they believe that there is a way to get a return on that investment. I just, for the life of me, can't figure out what it is because as Brandon Thurston did a pretty good job, he doesn't have all the inside information. He can't be 100% accurate because he doesn't have 100% visibility into the finances or the terms of the deals. But just looking at the face value of his

analysis, which is probably fairly close, reasonably close, how does he go from losing $37.5 million in 2023 to becoming profitable in 2025 when, yes, he's getting an increase in license fees, presumably, I don't know what his previous deal was, but assuming that he's getting a big, a bump, big as subjective, but he's getting a bump financially that will secure his position. But how does that relate to potential profitability when he's got a hundred million dollar talent budget that's only driving 600,000 viewers on his primary show? And the pay-per-view buy rates will deteriorate along with the television audience. There's a direct correlation between the number of people that watch your television show and the number of the

people that buy your your pay-per-view. And it's a small percentage in WW, or in AEW's case, if they've got, right now, they're averaging less than 700,000 viewers over the last couple of weeks. They're only doing on average about 100,000 or 125,000 buys for pay-per-view, as that television audience continues to deteriorate, if it does, so will the buy rates. So how does he become, how do you go from losing $37.5 million, presumably, potentially, to all of a sudden becoming profitable? I don't, it's, it's, it's, it's, it's not real. It's Dave Meltzer fantasy math. It's what Dave Meltzer wants to believe so badly because as you heard him saying, And he so clearly articulated, he's now vindicated.

No, Dave, you're a fucking clown. You've always been a clown. It's just that more people know it now. And you make it obvious, more obvious, every time you come out and say stupid shit. Dave warned people that a deal was coming. And if they didn't pivot, they'd look like fools. But no one would stop lying to their podcast listeners. That's what Dave Meltzer said on Wrestling Observer Radio.

Do you think he's talking about you? Does he think that you're lying to your listeners? I mean, I don't know where he would have ever heard you say that they weren't getting a TV deal. So who's lying? So who's lying here? Dave, Dave Meltzer is, he's a, again, I don't think he's intentionally lying. I just think that he's so mentally and emotionally twisted and needy. that he says these things without realizing just how ignorant he is and how bad he makes

himself look. He's put words in my mouth. He's put words in other people's mouths. This is why so many people have such a strong negative feeling about him, because he's been proven time and time and time again to be the fraud that he continues. He wants to convince other people are. He wants to convince, for whatever reason, he hates podcasters, but mostly because people like me and Jim Cornett and Bruce Pritchard and so many others now have a platform to call out his shit. So, of course, he's defensive about it.

He can't get away with the same bullshit that he's been getting away with for the last 30 years, now that everybody has a platform and can speak to some of the stupid shit he says. So he's got this inherent, you know, resentment towards people. like me and Jim Cornett and others. But it doesn't change the facts. It doesn't change the facts that Dave has been caught so many times lying to his audience so that he projects what he wants people to think about people like Cornett or me or Bruce when it's really him.

That's the fraud and the liar. It's just, it's a fascinating study of human behavior and the way some people think or don't. Well, something else that's fascinating about human behavior is our metabolism, and that's why we're excited to tell you about Lumen. Eric is absolutely in love with this product, and I think you will be too. Lumen is the world's first handheld metabolic coach. It's a device that measures your metabolism through your breath, and on the app it lets you know if you're burning fats or carbs. And then it gives you tailored guidance to improve your nutrition, your workouts, your sleep, and even your stress management. all you got to do is breathe into your lumen first thing in the morning, and then you'll know

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That's l-U-M-E-N-D-E-S-E-3 weeks. So, Eric, there's a lot of other components of this deal that we should discuss. You know, one of the big things that everybody's wanting to know is, hey if this means AEW is profitable how profitable and Dave said well that really depends on if Tony wants to reinvest in the products or as far as in terms of strengthening the front office and I thought that was interesting because just a minute ago we were saying that Dave Meltzer said that this is going to make AEW the second most profitable wrestling company in history and when asked how much

does that mean? Dave says, well, it depends on how much Tony spends. Sounds like Dave wants a job. Dave is always wanted a job in a professional wrestling business. That's why I think he supports Tony as much as he does, regardless of how ridiculous it is. How is investing in the front office going to make the television product any better? Unless he invest in bookers in the front office, somebody that actually knows how to write a show and format a show and understand. and that person happens to be in the front office, what is Tony going to do in the office on the administration side of his business, which is what that infers when you say front office, it's administration.

How on the fuck is more talent in administration going to affect the quality of the product itself? That makes no sense. again, it's typical Dave Meltzer. I find it interesting, though, that Dave, after saying they're going to be profitable, is then like, well, it depends if he spends money in other places. Like, yeah, that's the way every business works, man. Like, if you spend less, you make more.

But the idea that, well, we, I mean, how can you come out and say it's going to be the second most profitable ever? And in the very next breath, saying, well, I don't know how profitable, because he might spend more, I mean, that's pretty much sums it up, doesn't it, Conrad? Yeah. The guy doesn't, he couldn't hit his ass with both hands and a compass. He doesn't know what he's talking about. But the Kool-A-Drinking, AEW, social media goofs that are like Dave are all going to jump on that. They're going to jump on whatever Dave says because in their twisted weak little minds, it's a win.

it's a fantasy, it's a fantasy at this point. Now, maybe Tony will turn it around. Maybe having this stability, the financial stability, you know, and a foundation to work off of. Perhaps Tony will turn things around. But it has to start with creative. It has to start with a television product. Not in the fucking front office, Dave. If there's ever been an illustration that Dave has never run anything other than a dirt sheet

and probably isn't qualified to run a chain of Kool-Aid stands. It's the comment that you just shared. Dave's also going to say that now talent from both rosters and their salaries can go way up because both companies are going to be more profitable than ever so they can afford to pay more. And Dave even advises that any talent with a deal that's coming up, They should try to get the shortest contract possible. So now he's a talent agent, too. Not only is he a student who studies

and has an insatiable desire to learn, according to him, in a recent post of his. How about Dave, you get an insatiable desire to learn how to structure a fucking sentence? How about an insatiable desire to structure, I don't know, a paragraph? Learn how to write. Learn how to speak.

and then maybe start studying business because none of this stuff makes any sense. I mean, it's laughable, laughable. And now he's, now he's an agent. Like, WWE is not going to react to anything AEW does with regard to how much they pay talent. They're going to operate their business the way they're going to operate their business based on their metrics, not on what Tony Kahn is doing. Do I think that salaries will go up for WWE talent? Sure, it will. It does for everybody over time.

Do I think that this deal is going to somehow accelerate the trajectory of talent fees and what talent can get? I absolutely do not. I was sort of taken aback by that. I don't know. I understand that he's trying to say. say, hey, the pay scale can continue to go up. But man, there's so much that can happen, too. I don't know if I would advise any talent, sign the shortest deal possible.

Like, a guy tears his knee. I mean, what are we doing? Anybody that listens to Dave Meltzer deserves what happens to them. So if you're a talent out there and you think Dave Meltzer knows what the fuck he's talking about and you act accordingly, that's on you. You're listening to a moron. You're listening to a needy, mentally and emotionally twisted individual who wants to be, he wants to be credible so badly.

And he was able to be credible for so long because he got there first to his credit. He and Wade Keller, which he were the first. Shout out to Wade Keller, by the way. Oh, I still need to sign up for PW Torch. We had Wade on the show last week. I told him I would and I didn't. I just remembered that. Thank you very much.

wait i promise for the first time in my life i'm going to subscribe to a wrestling news site and it's going to be yours i forgot to do it last week i will do it today as soon as the show is over time out pw torch dot com slash vip and be sure to use the promo code conrad 24 you're going to get one month where you get all the archives of the torch for just one dollar how about that so for one dollar you get all the archives so if you're a big fan of nostalgia and and clearly you are you're listening to this show you'll get to see all of the archives from the torch all those great episode or issues all the great torch talks and his analysis from today i mean he's doing audio every single day and it's a dollar go check it out use our promo code conrad 24 at pw torch

i forgot so anyway well you were you were giving a high five to way killer and i'm glad about that i do want to ask you about this the rumor is that part of this new deal with warner brothers discovery is that a ew has to be what they would call cable exclusive so if there's going to be another show and that is the rumor that there's going to be another show and that is the rumor for the name Shockwave, which we know AEW has trademarked. If there's going to be a show called AEW Shockwave, seemingly, according to the rumor, and again, we don't have this confirmed, that would mean that it couldn't be on cable, it would have to be on broadcast.

Now, the reason I bring this up is that feels like a crazy thing to think you could make happen. But last week, we just saw, and I don't think he even knew he was being recorded, swore of Strickland in casual conversation while he's doing his media tour telling some folks who are outside the wrestling bubble hey we're coming to Fox WWs off Fox we're coming to Fox

the internet immediately starts thinking hey what does that mean we saw speculation that perhaps Rampage could wind up on FS1 but if there is an exclusivity for cable I don't know what to make of that unless it's going to be a ring of honor thing, which would be really hard for me to imagine.

Do you think Shockwave becomes a show for AEW? And if so, will it land on broadcast television? It's not going to land on broadcast television. That's a fantasy. Look, Swerve is, I understand, he's excited. He's out there promoting his company. He just got a big contract renewal.

He's doing what he should do. and promoting the company he works for, and I admire that. I think he got out a little ahead of his skis by suggesting, and he did suggest it that Fox Network didn't renew SmackDown that delivered about 2.5 million, 2.3 million viewers a week, and they're going to replace it with an AEW product that can't find 600 or 700,000 viewers a week. And Rampage and Collision,

we were looking at 300 or 400,000 per week. Does anybody in the right fucking mind think that Fox Network is going to go, well, we couldn't make Smackdown work with two and a half million viewers. But man, that rampage or that collision show, and this new one they're coming out with, let's do that. I understand why Swirp did it. he got excited, he's emotional, he's doing what he should do, but that was a bad take. I don't see it.

No. And to think that it could happen is a reflection of lack of information and knowledge, a.k.a. ignorance. Let's talk about what might be possible, you know, if they do, launch another show if it was going to be on another day? Obviously, we know AEW Dynamite is on Wednesday, AEW collisions on Saturday. You and I had sort of a hypothetical discussion not too terribly long ago, and I suggested could Monday be a day? Because if Monday Night Raw is now going to be on Netflix, there won't be any wrestling on traditional

television on Monday nights for the first time in like forever. And David, Meltzer, I believe, basically said that there's no chance of that. Now, there's no chance AEW would air on Mondays because that would be foolish going against Raw nor Friday against Smackdown, plus Fox does better on Friday with sports. Wednesday and Saturday are AEW nights on TBS and T&T, but for Tuesday, Thursday, Thursday and Sunday, an AEWA show would beat what Fox has right now so that's a report from dave meltzer about if they were to know do another show what day and he suggests perhaps tuesday thursday or sunday i know this is an unenviable position and you wouldn't want to do this in a million years i get it but if you were tasked with hey you're

going to run this third show for a ew what day would you want it on what day would you pick gary okay so monday's out by default tuesday is nxte yes yep on cw network show that's kind of out who would do that doesn't make sense

they've got wednesday thursday i guess is a possibility I don't see Friday for a lot of reasons and I think what's the is a collision that airs on Friday?

Collisions on Saturday. Rampages on Friday? Yeah, but nobody's saying what's happening with Rampage yet. There's been no announcement on that and I don't believe. Okay. We know what that show.

It's an AEW show. Whatever you call it, it's an AEW show. Yes. How's that show doing? Not good. It's getting crushed. It's a joke. It's a YouTube show.

And that's what I think this, what's the name of the proposed show that's rumored? Shockwave. Shockwave. Given what you just said about cable exclusive, it's a YouTube show. That's it. That's the only real option. Sunday? Oh, man.

Sunday's so tough for so many reasons. I guess it's a possibility. I don't know enough about the hut levels, households using television on Sunday. Typically not a great night for something like wrestling. There's a reason why we've never really seen much wrestling on Sundays except for pay-per-views. And even they have shifted more and more frequently to Saturdays for the same reason. I guess Sunday's the only option left unless it's a YouTube show. That I could see.

I mean, there's money to be made in YouTube, obviously. that's the only option that I would see given the contractual relationship with WBD and cable exclusivity the nights that are already excluded some by default others by common sense what's left it's a process of elimination I think it's a YouTube show I know what Dave said why are you so adamant that it won't be Monday because AEW can't compete with a fucking tennis tournament. I mean, if the wind changes direction an hour before the show, Jay Meltzer uses it as an excuse for lower ratings.

They're so unable to compete against another wrestling product. It's laughable. And yes, Monday may be vacant in terms of cable wrestling, but Netflix is so big and so powerful and has already, It exists in so many homes that while there's not a cable television program, the vast majority of the wrestling audience is going to be watching Raw on Netflix. So whether there's a cable television, whether there's a cable version of Raw or a Netflix version of Raw, the wrestling audience is not going to choose AEW over Monday Night Raw on Netflix.

So they're still competing head-to-head with Monday Night Raw. They can't compete head-to-head with a freaking golf tournament. So I'm just not buying it. Unless I'm missing something really big, which I guess is possible. I'm not in the business right now. I get it. But common sense, well, common sense of Dave Meltzer don't have anything to do with each other. but common sense says to be Mondays is a disaster.

And didn't Tony come out and say he didn't want to compete with the NFL? He did. He did. But that makes me think maybe Tuesday. Hear me out. It'd be hard for me to imagine AW on Fox, on regular Fox. It would. Like you had WWE,

and maybe it was because it was just a bad business deal. Maybe they're not totally opposed to wrestling. They just felt like they were overpaying with WWE. We'll see. But if WWE winds up on CW on Tuesday with NXC and Tony Kahn manages to get Fox on Tuesday, Fox's footprint and presence is much bigger than CW. They would be beating NXT pretty handily, I would think.

That's interesting. Yeah. That's an interesting play. It would be ballsy, and I would respect that. because at least it's actually competing and not just talking about it. I respect the move, and perhaps it could be successful. But given the quality of the product, it all comes back to that. And the viewing pattern that we've seen over the last year,

I still don't think it would be successful, but I would respect the effort for sure. And that's really all that, That's the only strategy that kind of makes sense other than YouTube. I think YouTube is the best idea for a year. Well, I agree. I would definitely do a YouTube show no matter what. I would bring that back.

Maybe I would even put Rampage there. Let me ask you about, because this seems weird to me, but I don't think it's been discussed. Do you think there's a chance that dynamite or collision become a third? three-hour show as a result of this new deal. Because for it to be so much for money, it does feel, make me wonder, are they going to be paying for more? And I just couldn't help but notice, as you and I are recording, last night was AW-Dynamite, the overrun went like more than a half hour.

So it was an incredibly long overrun. For a big-time match, I'm glad they hung with it. It was a great show. But could you see a third hour for either dynamite or collision or both? I could see it from the network's perspective because it's scaling in a way. Look, they're going to spend X amount of dollars for a two-hour show. A three-hour show is going to have the same price tag, essentially. The setup's already there.

The production is already in place. The talent's already in place. All of the expenses for a two-hour show are already in place. Simply extending it to a three-hour show is a great. That's what happened with Nitro. That wasn't my idea. Trust me, I hated the idea. But from an economy of scale perspective, it makes sense for the network.

Again, I'll go back to what happens to the audience. Now, it'll be interesting this afternoon to see what the ratings are for that overrun. This may have been an, this may have been an experiment. Perhaps if you're right, or not that you're saying it's going to happen, but if you're suggesting that it's a possibility and you're right, that half-hour overrun may have been a little bit of a test. And we'll see what it does. I didn't watch the show last night,

but if they built towards the main event, if they were actually able to format a show properly and tease what was coming up and create some anticipation and it actually worked and that half-hour was successful, then maybe they will. It would make sense from a financial perspective. Again, economies of scale, absolutely. But then you have the ramifications.

What impact does that have on the audience? Is the audience willing to sit through three hours of an AEW product? They're not willing to sit for the most part for a two-hour product. They're losing audience. They have less viewers today than they did a year from now, a year ago. That's the attrition that exists and has existed for the last. last 18 months. So to suggest that an additional hour is somehow going to improve that flies against common

sense. It'll be interesting, though. It'll be fun to watch. I hope they do. I'd love to see a three-hour AEW show. Love to see it happen from a business. Let me say this. I know that we're having a little bit of fun today, but I want to be clear.

I think you and I are aligned on this. AEW getting this television deal is something to celebrate if you're AEW, if you're Tony Kahn, if you're AEW fans, if you're, if you're talent, if you're just, it's great for the overall industry. This is a huge win. Eric and I are upset by this.

This is a great day for professional wrestling. But we are discussing, hey, what's next? Where do they go from here? And one of the things I wanted to ask you about, because I have a feeling you didn't watch the show last night right absolutely not I'd rather show up my leg the main event I mean it had been teased for a while for weeks now that we were going to get ricochet and Will Osprey and they just had a viral wrestling match before maybe that was even a word seven years ago

and so the internet the hardcore the sickos we've been rubbing our hands together ready for it to round two and we're going to see it because they're in the same company again and we did they started with that but earlier in the week and i mean like monday afternoon they announced brian danielsen would be defending his world title against okada and the stipulations they've had on brian lately are when he loses the world title he's going to retire that sort of thing but okada is the continental champion and they imposed television title rules where the title's on the line for the first 20 minutes. But then they announced, hey, we've got an overrun.

Could go as long as a half hour or more, the longest in history. We must have a winner. Stay with us. And Tony gave away on free television the rubber match between Brian Danielson and Okada. They were tied at one apiece. They previously faced off in pay-per-views and done really, really well. And now it's going to be on free television. I mean, it really was a dream match for a lot of people to see the best wrestler in the WWE. for so many years and the best wrestler in New Japan for so many years and now it finally happens.

But it wasn't even promoted until Monday. And a lot of people were scratching their head, Eric, like, why is he doing this? Why is he giving this match away? I mean, I got messages from people in the business who were asking me that. And I think we just stumbled across it. Well, he needed to be able to have proof of concept that he could have a really compelling main event and draw in that third hour. and he knew if he put Brian Danielson and O'Kada in that overrun,

not just a five-minute overrun, but deep into the overrun so he could get two quarter hours out of it. It would probably show a peak. Now, you and I are discussing this before. We've seen how that worked. But if that was the strategy, that was pretty damn smart and answers the question everybody else had, which is, why is he doing this on free TV?

That would make sense, wasn't it? It would. It would. again, as we've been talking about, you know, Tony is probably dependent, 75% of his revenue or more is dependent upon this licensing deal. And that's the customer that he has to serve first, right? No matter what business you're in, you have a customer that you have to service. And Tony has to service Warner Brothers Discovery and his television deal.

I like the logic. I like the strategy. We'll find out if it worked. If it doesn't work, it's not because the strategy was wrong. It's because his approach to it was wrong. This is something that should have been built up. Now, I didn't watch the show, so perhaps I'm, you know, I'm dead wrong here. But if there was enough thread throughout the show leading up to the main event that he knew was going to be in the overrun,

that created sufficient emotion, which is what's primarily lacking in anything AEW-related, investment, emotional investment on a part of the audience. If he was able for the first time since I've been watching AEW to format a show in a way that builds anticipation to that overrun, hats off to Tony Kahn in his entire team. And the numbers will reflect that later today. but if he didn't do the things he should have done throughout the course of the two hours to build that anticipation to create that emotional investment, this will be a flop. And we'll find out later today, which one it was.

And that's, you know, just simply looking at the results and not looking at the format. It'll be fun to watch. I can't wait to see the numbers come out today. If they break 700,000 and that overrun gets anywhere in the 600,000 range, I consider that a success. If the two hours hit 700 or a break 700 because that's kind of been their high watermark for the last few months, if they can hit at least hit 700,000 viewers for the initial two hours and end up in, I'll even take it down a notch. If they can end up with 500,000 viewers over the course of that overrun, that's a success. That is a creative, that is a creative success.

If it comes in under that, then it becomes a question mark. I bet they exceed both expectations. I hope so. I hope so. Well, I do want to ask you about serving both masters, but first I got a question. Does what you work? If you're asking that question, we want you to know that Blue Chew is putting their money where their mouth is. They're giving you a month for free.

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where we've also got a series of exclusive shows we've yet to announce our new ladies initiative but stay tuned it's on deck and so it's lex express or revisit with the total package lex ligger each month how about pod and ain't easy with the godfather the book with david crockett monday mailbag with mike keota and nick patrick tully blizzard with tully blanchard and learning lucia with sam adonis and so much more it's all available now and ad free shows dot com but i'm telling you it's more than just wrestling content it's a big community and i want to give a shout out to so many of our folks who are hanging out with us here on a thursday morning as we're recording uh eric we uh we should talk a little bit about serving both masters and then i want to get to some questions because we've got a lot of questions coming to you this morning based on this new announcement but one of the things that i thought stood out to me in this this whole Fox WWE

breakup is the expectation Fox probably had going in and then the reality of what they had. When that deal was first announced they put a lot of juice behind it when they announced hey Paul Hey Paul Heyman's going to one run show

I'll get it out and Eric Bischoff's going to run another show and it was made clear the Fox show I mean that first show yes you had the Rock, but you also had Brock Lesnar. You had Rhonda Rousey. You had a lot of big time names. Hell, you even had Tyson Fury. The Gypsy King was there. So you've got a lot of talent shifted over. I'm talking about mainstream crossover talent. But then

once the weekend, week out, I mean, all the new war off and we just settled into, it's just smackdown and it just happens to be on Fox. No more Rhonda. no more Tyson King, or Tyson Fury, the Gypsy King, no more Rock, no more Rhonda Rousey. I mean, slowly but surely, those stars that they were sort of promised up front, they weren't there. And that's not to say that they were all out of contract, but they're just on different shows or they're not there all the time. But I do wonder, was there and there had to be, some sort of competition and hurt feelings about, hey, why is USA getting that and we're getting this? If AEW now has two partners, no longer just Warner Brothers, whether it's TBS or it's TNT, it's still all in the same family, but now we've got something outside the tent, I could see how that might be tricky. And I wanted to just tee that up to you about how difficult that might be.

You didn't have to do that when you were in WCW, but you were seeing that they were going to have to do that in WWE. Can you talk to us about that? That was a big issue. You know, and first of all, I want to say, yeah, there was a big announcement that, you know, Paul Heyman was going to take over wrong. Eric Bishop was going to take over Spacktown. By the way, neither of those things occurred. Vince McMahon absolutely ran both of those shows. Neither Paul or I could make a decision or a choice that wasn't approved by Vince McMahon. It was still one guy booking both shows no matter what the hype said. And I'm sure Paul would back that up if you had a chance to talk to him about it. just was the way it was. And it was Vince McMahon. He had to control everything. But in the process for the months leading up to the premiere of SmackDown on Fox, that was, now I wasn't involved in those discussions. That was a Kevin Dunn, Vince McMahon initiative in terms of dealing with the network and managing the expectations of both. I heard, I won't

speak for Paul, but I definitely heard from Vince about the issues that both Fox had and USA had, and it was a ridiculous balancing act. And understandably, they're both, in particularly in the case of Fox, you know, making a massive investment into the property, and they wanted the highest percentage of success in terms of return on that investment, which includes talent. It's a talent-driven business, always has been, always will be. So that was a big, big issue. And it would create a big concern. It creates an opportunity because Tony has a ton of talent.

His talent roster is not the issue, not with regard to options. So there's enough talent there that I think Tony could manage the service of both masters in that respect. because he has a deep roster and a lot of his top talent he's not using he uses some of them but there's still some great talent on his roster that for all intents and purposes are in the television version of a witness protection program another option may provide an opportunity for that talent and there's still big enough brands names that it could satisfy another customer so to speak. But it is a tough one. And it gets tougher, the bigger the commitment is. The more money someone's paying, the more, the more they want to have a voice in who's on their show. Because

television executives look at, unless they're sicko, internet wrestling geeks like Dave Meltzer, they don't care. They care about the stars. They don't want to hear about the best wrestlers in the world. They don't give a fuck. What they care about are results, and they, by the nature of the entertainment business, which is a talent-driven business, they're going to look for the biggest names they can get. The bigger the check, the bigger the demands. So again, it would depend on who that third party is. If it's a smaller deal, it'll be easier to service.

Look, the Fox thing is like a circle jerk for the people that are excited about it. But let's just pretend that that happened for some odd reason. Then you've got a big issue. Then you've got a big issue. But if it's a smaller vice, for example, they'll take whatever they can get because the budget is going to reflect it. Vice doesn't have a big budget. I don't think they have any budget at this point.

But if they did, it would be a, I'm using Vice as an example. It would be a very small budget. So the pressure would be relative to the size. of the check. One of the things I think that makes it a little more challenging in trying to serve both masters. In the scenario you just laid out for WWE where there's USA and there's Fox, if this becomes, hey, there's Warner Brothers Discovery and Fox,

there has been discussion, more renewed discussion this week, about whether or not Warner Brothers has an equity stake in AEW. and I find that fascinating like if they really do have skin in the game and I do I have been led to believe that it is a minority stake but no one has ever officially confirmed nor denied that

and there's a lot of questions I would have if they wind up getting a show outside of the Warner Brothers Discovery family but WBD has equity it mighties it up a little bit, does it not? Sure it does. Sure it does. And that may be the play.

Look, Warner Brothers Discovery wanted to make a play for Monday Night Raw. That's public. It's documented. There was a strong interest on WBD's part in acquiring Raw when those rights became available. There was also, because of very credible information I have with someone who was involved in the process tangentially, but still had direct information, that WBD at one point in time was interested in acquiring WW. So there's clearly a bigger vision there, and perhaps they see AEW as an opportunity, particularly if they own equity, as an opportunity to possibly build the company up enough so that it becomes an, there becomes an attractive exit strategy for Tony.

I do believe that, and I've been, listen, I've heard from people that I got about 60% confidence in who may know that WBD owned at one point early on 30% equity inside of AEW. Could be true, could not be true. I'm not saying it is or isn't. I'm relaying what I've heard third hand, which we all know what that's worth. But let's just pretend it's true that WBD owns a financial stake. Why would you want to own a financial stake at a company that's, ostensibly losing money that lost $37.5 million last year, according to Brandon Thurston and Russell Navi's,

who does a pretty thorough job, and it doesn't appear to be emotionally invested like Dave Meltzer. Why would you do that? Unless you thought that there was an exit strategy somewhere down the road. It makes sense to me. If I owned a network, look, UFC, probably more than anything, else proved that that is a good strategy. When UFC left, where were they first before they went to ESPN? Were they at Fox? They were at Spike and then Fox and then ESPN. Spike, okay.

When they left Spike, that's what I have firsthand information and experience with. When UFC left Spike, Kevin Kay, who was then running Spike, part of by a com, was serious. utterly but hurt because he believed and rightfully so that spike made a commitment to the brand built the brand and that is not even arguable there's no conversation to be had when it comes to was spike responsible in large part not completely but in large part was spike responsible for the explosion and the success of UFC abs of freaking loot it's documented you cannot look at the facts and have another opinion unless you're mentally and emotionally twisted and choose to do something. So UFC leaves and goes to another network, that's when I had conversations,

not with Kevin, but with other executives in Spike that, hey, if we're going to get behind a brand and we're going to build somebody else's brand, we want to own it. I immediately went to, based on those conversations and had dialogue, I immediately went to T&A and said, hey, guys, here's an opportunity for long-term growth and stability. What if we provided, what if I wasn't we, I wasn't running anything or making any decisions, I just came to them with an idea.

What if you guys enter into an equity relationship with Spike and Viacom to ensure your profitability, and get even more support and growth going into the future. So you're not worried about whether or not you're going to be able to renegotiate your TV deal because TNA was absolutely dependent, much like AEW is, absolutely dependent on that television deal for profitability.

There was no other meaningful revenue streams just like there aren't any meaningful revenue streams. In AEW's case, they do better in pay-per-view than obviously TNA did, but that's still not significant enough to justify the overall budget. And TNA didn't want to do it. the rest is history because they didn't want to give up and they didn't want to share information

in my opinion is the real issue there were things that in my opinion executives at t and a didn't want executives at spiked to know therefore rejected the conversation out of hand wouldn't even couldn't even do it if wbd if david david zazzoff is looking at okay here's this brand it's a new brand it's only five years old it's new there's potential here. It could be big someday. It's not now, but let's hedge our bet. Let's take a piece of the action in case there's growth, there's success, and ultimately there's an exit strategy or significant revenue as a result of the equity. It makes total sense. If you're, if you're creating the brand, you're building the brand vis-a-vis your television exposure and

building that audience, why would you not want to own a piece of that company? In fact, you would be remiss if you didn't attempt to try to own a piece of that brand because you're responsible in a large part for creating the success of it. I wanted to ask, you know, one of the things that we haven't discussed yet is when you can stream dynamite and collision on HBO Max, Do you think they're going to run it with commercials? I think a lot of people when they first announced that Raw was going to be on Netflix, they thought, hey, we won't have any commercials.

My understanding is there may be different tiers, so there will be a commercial free option. But if you just have the standard subscription, then maybe you will set through commercials. And that's an exciting new opportunity for Netflix to be able to sell commercials because typically that hasn't been something they've done in a lot of their programming. But this being live, it lends itself. to that. Do you think the HBO Max version of the show will have commercials there?

I think I would imagine I don't watch HBO Max. There's really not much there that I'm interested in yet. I'm kind of a Netflix Hulu guy, to be honest. But it seems like that's the trend, right? The trend is to the same thing that we do at ad-free shows, right? You've got one tier for people that just want to listen to the podcast without hearing commercials. It's the lowest tier. And then if you want additional content, you know, the tiers go up. And I know a lot of the stuff that I'm watching on streaming platforms, it does have commercials in it. So I would imagine it's probably going to be structured much the same way that if you want to watch AEW without commercials,

it's going to cost you X with commercials. It'll cost you a little bit less. I can't imagine that that won't be the case because it seems to be the model that most of these streaming platforms are beginning to. Because you can only increase subscription rates so much

before people start choking on it. People have, you know, rocket money. And they go, oh my God, I've got 62 subscriptions here and I only use three. What am I not watching this and this and this? but if they can provide tears, that seems to be the most sensible thing. Would you also imagine that, because I would imagine, that I would stop watching AEW on Sling or YouTube TV.

I would just watch AEW at that point on HBO Max. Like, why would I want to watch the commercial version? I'm just going to jump over here and watch the commercial free version. I bring that up because I know this is silly, and maybe it doesn't matter at that point, but I feel like I have to ask, that's going to affect ratings, right? A lot of the art and horse like me, they're going to go watch it on the stream, and so you're going to see the ratings fall even more. I'm so glad you brought that up because my wheels were turning, and I'm wondering, wait a minute,

they're going to offer this stuff commercial free, or you can watch it on television and get inundated with three and a half minutes of commercial. every four minutes, it suggests that perhaps this deal could cannibalize the Wednesday night ratings or what's left of Friday and Saturday. I mean, my God, if there's a chunk out of the Friday or Saturday show, who's watching it? That's an interesting aspect of this, is how is this great opportunity to have AEW available commercial free dynamite commercial free on HBO Max? How is that going to affect Wednesday night? Another interesting aspect.

And I'm sure that, you know, Warner Brothers Discovery is taking into consideration and they've got a formula in their minds that will make that okay. But it's, it'll be, again, like everything else, this is going to be really fun to watch from a business point of view. Well, I wanted to ask, you know, since we're talking about watching it on the stream, do you think there's a chance that the Shockwave show is just a streaming show and Shockwave is going to be exclusive to HBO Max? Could be. Makes sense, doesn't it? Yeah, yeah. Makes sense. Now, I guess I'm wondering, how would you feel about does it make a difference if it's on stream versus television?

would putting the show on Monday there, Netflix has got Raw and HBO Max, does A.W. Would that make sense? I don't think any way, shape, or form that AEW tries to compete with Monday Night Raw is going to be successful. It's just not. I mean, no. So, so what, if you're thinking about it no longer as, it's on Fox, and now we're going to think about it from a streaming standpoint, would you still favor Tuesday? and going head-to-head with CW on broadcast. I'd go Thursday.

Of course, you're going to get your ass kicked, you know, during the NFL season, obviously, but just take that. I mean, look, you can't dodge sports competition. It's either going to be the NFL. It's going to be the NBA is right around the corner. And, you know, it doesn't really become, look, for WCW, NBA wasn't competition.

Maybe into the playoffs. particularly in the finals, then it became competition. But I never even thought about the NBA as it related to competition and ratings. And you go back and look at it. You know, January and February and March, we were often, you know, we had the top three hours in the top 10 of all television, all week, not just for one night. Things have changed. NBA's gotten much more popular.

So you're always going to have, whether it's the NFL, NBA, NHL, WNBA, Darts, you're always going to have something you're competing with. I still think I'd take my lumps on Thursday and plan for the other seven months out of the year, eight months out of the year. Well, let's plan on saving some money, shall we? Rocket money is what's hooking Eric and I up. And here's the deal. You can't name every subscription you have.

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That's rocketmoney.com slash 83 weeks. Rocketmoney.com slash 83 weeks. Eric, let's spend a little bit of time talking about this Vince McMahon documentary and what's going on this weekend. But before we do, we've got a handful of really good questions from our live studio audience. Let's do some of these. Coach Rosie wants to know, with this new Max deal, do you think it will provide more non-w shows like the Cody program that your daughter was a part of?

Could that be a revenue stream? So I think what he's referencing there is that whole roads to the top reality show that was on TBS way back when. Do you think that as part of this new HBO Max deal, we'll see more streaming opportunities, more non-in-ring content for AEW talent? It's possible, certainly, because everybody's looking for content, right? Content is king. I don't see anything going on inside of AEW or quite honestly, with all due respect to the talent. I think many of them are amazing performers in the ring or have the potential to be. But they don't necessarily have, I don't see anything on the horizon in terms of a non-scripted non-wrestling show with some of that talent.

There's nobody there that has enough star power to drive a non-scripted non-wrestling show. I can't imagine it. And I can't imagine any networks are going to look at that. say, yeah, that'll work. It's hard. And it's not just because there's not enough horsepower there or star power in AEW. Nonscripted has gotten very difficult over the last few years because the audience has become more selective.

They've seen enough of the Kardashian bullshit and the non-reality reality shows. The things that are working tend to. to be documentary follows, documentary dramas, more reality-based. I mean, true reality, not scripted reality. And I just don't see anybody there that's got an interesting life outside of wrestling, interesting enough that you could build an hour episode around them. They've tried. Roads to the Top was a good experiment. It didn't do very well. And that was when AEW was hot. Er. It's never been hot, but it was hot. than it is now, clearly.

So I just don't think they've got the talent that could be interesting enough for the type of reality programming that is working today. It's way more difficult today than it was six months ago and incredibly more difficult than it was two or three years ago, just because of the nature of what networks are looking for and the type of programs that are being successful. Eric Jones says hypothetically if Tony actually let a booker come in to fix the product for this he opportunity who do you think could fill that role that wasn't already employed elsewhere

all right I think the gist is if he was to bring in a you know the creative mind to help take over the creative is there someone out there on the shelf on the sidelines that you would reach out and say this guy. I trust this guy to help us get on track. I bring that up to you because you famously told the story before that when Dusty Rhodes got control of WCW, the first thing he said to you was, hey, get me Kevin Sullivan. So that was his sort of behind glass breaking case of emergency. Is there someone like that today in 2024 in your mind? Tony's already got him. He doesn't have to go outside of the company. I would, and again, I'm answering the question as best I can, given my knowledge and experience with the people I'm about to mention. But if I were in Tony's

shoes and I wanted to make a significant change in the vision and the direction of creative, I would sit down with Jen Pepperman and Mike Mansoury. Both of them are great storytellers. Both of of them have incredible track records of success and understanding of the product and the product's audience. By far, more than Tony has. I would tag them in. I would give them more influence, if not complete responsibility, between the two of them. Now, Mansourri's storytelling is going to come more from the production side, but it's incredibly important. You can't have good creative without your director having input. You're not.

But Tony's got Mike Mansourri and Jen Pepperman. Jen Pepperman knows episodic television. Far more than Tony will ever learn. If he stays in a business for 20 years, Tony won't be able to learn or have developed the talent that Jen Pepperman has. She's not perfect. Nobody is. Nobody's going to come in with all the right ideas. But if you've got either Jen or someone just like her that really understands episodic storytelling and the wrestling product and more importantly, understands the wrestling audience, not just if I can sit goes, did they bails or wannabees, Kool-A-drinking internet mucker

fathers, but I'm talking about real audience. The 95% of the audience that Tony doesn't have. Put Jen and Mike Mansourri in charge of creative, they're already there. You don't even have to hire anybody. You just have to be intelligent enough to know what you don't know. That's what Tony's weakness is. He doesn't know what he doesn't know. All right, Eric, we've got another question here from Josh Hennie. Thoughts on the overrun announcement that it would be the longest ever.

It went 32 minutes and featured. a picture and picture and break, what are your thoughts? We sort of touched on the overrun earlier, but 32 minutes, and I did forget, but he's right. They did have a picture and picture ad break. They pulled out all the stops for that overrun. There had to be some strategy there. Yeah, the whole overrun conversation is interesting, and I may be wrong about this.

I'm the first one in the wrestling industry to ever utilize the overrun, but I did it very creatively and very strategically, and typically, and I would like a challenge. challenge anybody listening to this that has access to ratings back in 96, 97, 98, or whatever. To go back and look at the overruns when they happened in WCW, my memory suggests to me that our overruns were the highest rated portions of the show. We didn't lose audience during overruns. Typically, AEW does. And the reason they do is because they promote the fucking things. You don't promote an overrun. An overrun should. occur as a result of a creative plan that puts that last segment into a situation where

there was so much going on, the announcers would say something like, oh, my God, we can't leave now. We're going to put a call into the networks. We're going to see if we can stick with us. Stay with us. We're going to try. We're not sure if we're going to be able to stick with this. You have to create an urgency and a reason why. There has to be a reason why people are going to stick around. And announcing it isn't a reason. It's not an emotional reason. Wrestling should make you feel, not make you think. And creating that urgency and using the overrun as a creative device to create the emotion and emergency necessary to increase your ratings should be the math, the creative math. Announcing overruns in advance,

does the exact opposite, which is why AEW typically loses audience in their overrun. Because they don't know how to do it. They don't, Tony doesn't understand. He doesn't know what he doesn't know. And he keeps doing the same thing over and over again and getting the same results. Now, this seems like a special scenario because of the announcement and the hype that went into it. And hopefully, because of the format of last night show, created that sense. of urgency.

If it didn't, it'll be obvious in a couple hours, and that's one of the things. If I was Tony Kahn, I would sit back and say, okay, how come we're losing audience in our overruns? Because they're supposed to increase the audience, not decrease the audience. It's kind of an amazing phenomenon. Listening again to dipshit Dave Meltzer talking about overruns and his perspective of it, go back and look at WCW's overrun strategy. I would suggest I'm taking a while that.

guess here, seven or eight times out of ten, our overruns actually increase ratings because we use them the right way as kind of a spontaneous need based on the events that we're taking place and we have to stick with this because we need to see this resolution. We cannot afford to not bring this to you. We're going to get on the phone and call the network. We're going to do our best stick with us. That's how you hold an audience, not announcing it at the beginning of the show. I would stick around with this because we're going to have an overrun because we know something's going on and we're going to bring it to you.

The fuck is that. I mean, it's childish. This is actually, it still gets frustrating for me. It's so obvious what they need to do versus what they are doing. Let me ask you, isn't it true that we're all consuming differently? Like,

I think the reason you wouldn't have announced it back then on Nitro in that era is we didn't all have DVRs. And like last. night the Braves were facing elimination from the playoffs and I could see how if you were a big sports guy, hey, I'm going to record the wrestling show and I'm going to watch the baseball game because it's live and I want to watch the real baseball game and then I'll get back to the wrestling show later. But if I just would have had my DVR set, I would have missed 32 minutes of the main event. Now, then manage that. If that's your challenge, then manage the fucking challenge

with your network. How do you do that? schedule it you can schedule i haven't done it so there's that but if i were faced with that challenge today i'd be on the phone with my network two weeks ago or three weeks ago because i would know that i'm going to do this at least a week ago at the very least a week ago get on the phone with my network and do whatever i had to do or ask them to do whatever they had to do to make sure that I didn't lose my overrun on DVR. I'm assuming it's technically possible. And you could do so, I'm assuming, without advertising the fact.

Okay. Maybe I'm wrong. And if I am, I'm really, I mean this generally, and not as a challenge, as a smart, me fucking, you know, cocky thing. But if I'm not correct, I would love to hear from somebody who's actually in the television business at the network level, explain to me or to our audience why that's not possible. because I would, I, I, I'd love to be enlightened. You know, I briefly mentioned Ring of Honor earlier.

We didn't bring this up, but there was certainly discussion on Wrestling Observer Radio that True TV, T-R-U-T-V, was once by a time in the hunt for Ring of Honor television rights. And Ring of Honor having any television rights is a home run and a great idea. But Dave said, as of right now, everything in Ring of Honor is, status quo. Do you think there's a chance Ring of Honor winds up getting a TV deal with like a true TV or something like that?

No. Outside of the Dave Meltzer world of Internet wrestling fans, nobody knows what the fuck Ring of Honor is or cares. Nobody ever has other than a very, very small portion of the audience. It's just not a brand.

Before Tony purchased Ring of Honor, I had someone that I'm close to, friends with, who has the resources, called me. I was in Florida with my kids, called me and said, hey, I'm thinking about making a play and I'd like your opinion and to see if you'd perhaps be interested. My advice was to run the other way. Do not go near this. Do not touch this.

And this person is a massive wrestling fan that just happens to be incredibly successful in other fields. And I hopefully talked to him out of it. I think I did because he didn't make a move. But there's just no value in it outside of the perceived value of the 2% of the wrestling audience that lives in breeze on the internet or listening to Dave Meltzer. Josh Hennie is with us here live, and he just gifted five memberships here at 83 Weeks.com. Thank you so much for that. I mentioned to everybody that Eric and I are going to be live this weekend. Bad Blood is on deck.

WW is back doing pay-per-view this Saturday in Atlanta, Georgia, and it is an incredible card. I'm going to run through the matches, but I want to remind you, we're going to be doing post-show live recap. right here. A live reaction for free on our YouTube channel. It's 83weeks.com. If you haven't already, go over, hit the subscribe button, turn on the notifications bell. But as a reminder, this Saturday is the first time ever since TKO has become the parent company for both UFC and WWE, that they both have events on the same day. So bad blood is starting earlier than normal. It's going to start at 7 p.m. Eastern 5 Central. roughly three hours later we should be done so around you know eight or nine is what we'll be live

here at 83 weeks dot com make plans to join us we'll be talking about live morgan wrestling ria rippley with dirty dom suspended above the ring in a short cage that's going to be a blast we'll be talking about damian priest and fin baller it's the judgment they blow off feud maybe we'll see what that next chapter looks like speaking of chapters the the most predicted and maybe most excited match on the WVE Horizon is a hell in a cell with C.M. Punk and Drew McIntyre. And it's happening this Saturday at Bad Blood. Eric and I are going to be reacting to it

immediately after the show. We'll also be discussing Bailey and Nia Jacks. And then in the main event, unless that hell in a cell is a main event. How about Cody Rhodes and Roman Raines taking on the bloodline? And there's lots of speculation about what might be happening in that match and are there going to be implications that get us

to crown jewel, which you know they pull out all the stops for. Eric and I are going to be live, reacting to this at 83 weeks.com, immediately following the paperview. So once it's over, and you see that little logo saying, hey, that's the end of the broadcast, sprint over to your computer,

83 weeks.com. Be live with us. Pick Eric's brain. And we'll be talking about the good, the bad, and the ugly of bad blood this Saturday. Remember, special start time, 6 p.m. Eastern, 5 Central. Travis Medway is with us here live, and he says, I think the biggest selling point of AEW was intrigued. The overexposure is causing audience fatigue. Would AEW be best canceling pay-per-views and building the more big show dynamites? I mean, business-wise, you can't cancel pay-per-views, right, Eric?

you got to keep bringing that cash register. Yeah, outside of their television licensing deal, it's the only meaningful revenue they have. It all comes back to story. I don't think they have too many pay-per-views. I think they have two little story instructions leading up to them. A pay-per-view should be a resolution of conflict. It should be, you know, watch it for free,

watch it for free, get hook, get-hook, get emotionally invested, and the only way you're going to see the end is if you watch the pay-per-view. That's the formula. That's how to get people to part with their cash. If they could do that successfully, it's not a question if they have too many pay-per-views. If they could create their format, their stories effectively and their characters and create enough build and anticipation and an emotional investment vis-a-vis their story,

they could probably add pay-per-views. But the current approach isn't going to grow their pay-per-view business. It's just not. People are not watching their pay-per-views for resolution. They're watching your pay-per-views for action. And you're going to get what you're going to get with a market that's only interested in seeing we're the best wrestlers. Well, by the way, they're not the best. Some of them are really good, but come on.

Some of the sloppiest most ridiculous shit I've ever seen has been an AEW. And I've seen some ridiculous sloppy shit. I produce some of it. This stuff is generally just average. and occasionally really, really good. But that's not enough to build a pay-per-view audience with. You're going to get what they've been getting. They're going to hover around that $100,000, $120,000

pay-per-view mark until it starts to deteriorate with relation to the television audience. Hey, here's a real-life testimonial that we got today during our broadcast, Eric. Josh Inney is letting us know that he's not going to be able to be a part of our live reaction show this Saturday at Bad Blood because he got Husker tickets

and here's what Josh wrote. I just got my Husker tickets for this Saturday through game time, easy to use and I got row one in our section. Listen folks, you think these are just ads. You think we're just talking out of our rear ends here. How about front row or your section for the

game this weekend? Go check it out. Use game time. Download that app and use our promo code. Save yourself some dope. Josh wants to know, Network versus Cable Show, is it fair to compare these viewerships versus Cable versus Cable? You know, that's interesting. Once upon a time, it used to mean a lot more than it does now. I mean, if you had to sort of rank them, if you will, streaming, broadcast, cable,

where is the importance now in 2024? Because it feels like it's changed. I think it has changed, but so much depends on the network. You know, you've got, I don't know what the availability is for TBS, for example. I'm going to guess it's around 93 million homes, 94 million, or 93 or 94% of the homes. I don't know what CW is. Let's say it's if TBS is 94%, then CW might be 90% or 91%. But just because it's available, you look at that metric, how big is the potential footprint, how many homes is it available in, doesn't mean that that reflects the number of people that watch it.

You can be available technically available in 94% of the United States, but if only 2% of the United States is watching anything on your network, then yeah, you're on a network, but who cares? you could be on a cable platform, perhaps like TBS, that has a much higher viewership because more people tune into the content that's on that particular network. It's been branded for much longer. It's got better programming. There's a reason to spend more time watching it. So you're going to go to it more often. People are creatures of habit oftentimes.

You're going to start watching the network that you are most familiar with. So much depends on who's the network. the comparison. Are we comparing, you know, CW to Netflix? I'll go Netflix all day long. But are we comparing CW to vice? I'll go CW. So it depends on the platform. Let's talk a little bit about, you know, some news and notes that happened on the show last night. but before we do, I want to do one last question from our live studio audience because I can't wait to hear your answer because I really don't know the answer. Michael Stubler says if you were an exec at WB or any other network, would you sign a EW up for time on your networks? If so, what would be the level of involvement

you would have in storylines? Great question. I'm going to go first. And I say, yes, I would absolutely sign them up. My understanding is this content is much cheaper to produce than a lot of other content that might be appearing on these networks. So if it is a very cost-effective medium and it's live, and sometimes you can sell advertising at a premium there, and it just looks good in your overall offering, yes, I would find a spot for AW.

But I can't wait to hear your answer, Eric. I would agree with you because it is from an, especially for WBD, who's $9 billion in the freaking hole. Yes, you've got to fill that time with something. And relatively speaking, professional wrestling is still cost-effective programming based on the audience that it returns for you. So I would agree with you on the first part. On the second part, if I was a network executive,

and I'm actually shocked this hasn't happened, to be really honest, I'm dumbfounded how it hasn't happened. But from my perspective, on the outside looking in, I'm not there on a day-to-day basis, the fact that there is not a network executive who is breathing down Tony Kahn's back every fucking hour on the hour, asking for better story and having input into what's needed for the network and helping them, quite obviously, because they need it. and every other show that, no, unless it's a library show or something that, you know,

they're rerunning, but of original programming, and I've worked with just about every cable outlet out there when I was working with Jason Hervey. We worked with Warner Brothers Discovery and David Zazloff. We produced shows for Discovery for crying out loud. Spike TV, VH1, MTV, NBC, A&E, and half a dozen I can't remember. Never once did we produce a show for a network

where we did not have at least one and more often multiple network executives. I don't want to say micromanaging, but very involved in every aspect of that production. And the fact that apparently AEW doesn't have that is fucking, mind-boggling to me, especially at a $170 million a year price dagger thereabouts. And particularly considering the hemorrhaging of audience that we've been seeing over the last

year and a half, it's almost professional malfeasance to not have a network executive that actually understands formatting and actually understands storytelling, not have a network. having direct oversight in the process. Mind-boggling. And by the way, prediction, and we know how I am about predictions? Fucking awesome, actually. Don't be surprised in the next 12 months

if that doesn't emerge. And there is a network executive. Because at the end of the day, it's their money. It's not Tony's money. $170 million has got nothing to do with daddy. that $170 million is network money. And the network has a fiduciary responsibility to its shareholders to manage those investments properly

and not having an executive overseeing the process, at least one that knows what the hell is going on, and understands the product is mind boggling to me. Well, we'll stay tuned and see what happens there. We're also going to keep an eye on what's happening with it. stories. I do want to touch on two stories. One is TAS. There was a tweet that came out yesterday before television or Wednesday, as folks are listening to this. And it says this afternoon, Taz was attacked in the parking lot and cannot announce tonight's AEW Dynamite fifth anniversary. Taz took

to social media and quote tweeted this and says, was at the hospital there, heading back to NY now. I need to see my doctors ASAP. These guys got me good at the arena. Destroyed my a leg. So Tass was not on the fifth anniversary show. And from the sounds of it, he might, he might be looking at a surgery here. We're going to get some story, Eric. What do you think of that? Well, we've got an act one. We've got the beginning of an act one. A story is a lot more than an incident. It could be the, what they call the inciting incident in a traditional story, one of the first elements of a good formula, there has to be something that happens, something that incites and causes a reaction going forward. So this is a potentially a good

inciting moment in a traditional storytelling structure. We'll see if it's actually a story. One element does not a story make, but perhaps it is. We'll find out. Time will tell. We're also going to be getting a bit of an update in the coming weeks on what's next for the Hurt Syndicate. I haven't brought this up to you, but last week, and Arthur Ash, we saw the debut of MVP on AEW. And as we're recording this, last night on Dynamite, we saw Shelton Benjamin, make his AEW debut. The expectation is. Can I stop you right there? Can I stop you right there? didn't someone ask me last week

who would I add to MVP stable I think so and I'm pretty sure I said Shelton Benjamin and I reflected back on the last time I saw Shelton in Australia only a couple months ago

and how highly I thought of him I'm happy to hear that go Shelton he's a great guy and amazing talent it's going to be a lot of fun and I can't wait to see what they're doing next they dropped off a business car to Mercedes Monet so we'll see what happens with the hurt syndicate in the coming weeks of course this weekend is bad blood next weekend is

wrestle dream you know eric and i are going to be back doing a live reaction for that one as well if you haven't already go right now to 83 weeks dot com hit the subscribe button and turn on the notifications bell had you done this a week ago you would have been able to be a part of all six of our live reaction episodes, we did six deep dives on the Mr. McMan documentary. It is a six-part companion. A lot of our episodes went two hours. That's more than double the runtime of the episode we were breaking down. We had guests like Pat LaProdd, who has done more research on Andre the Giant and Paterson than maybe anybody on the internet. We got his take. We also heard from gimmick attorney Mike Dawkins, as far as the legal ramifications around a lot of

things that we saw and maybe what's next for Vince McMahon in 2024 and certainly looking to 2025 but something that nobody ever thought they would see happened last week quietly on the 83 weeks YouTube Wade Keller joined us live and did a live show with Eric Rischoff people thought that would never happen it did and I encourage you to go check it out at 83 weeks.com it's totally free go hit the subscribe button turn on the notifications bell I got great feedback from that series, Eric. I'm glad we did it. And there's a bit of an update from Dave Meltzer on Wrestling Observer Radio last night.

He says this whole Vince McMahon documentary was the fourth most watch program on Netflix worldwide last week. He estimates that the total viewership was similar to what WWE does for an episode of Rawl, which is pretty impressive because that's counting folks who watched all six hours. when you hear that what's your takeaway this isn't something that was on free tv it's not posted free anywhere it's behind a paywall and i put up monday night raw numbers for people who completed all six episodes well once again dave is wrong as fuck according to netflix uh the estimated audience is over five million that directly from netflix not 1.5 million so there's that but you know it's funny i've been hearing from people that i haven't heard from in years

who saw that thing and we're really impressed with it as a documentary and we're shocked at some of the things that they saw and heard so it's very successful obviously well and we hope that they have a very successful weekend in uh w e this weekend with bad blood we hope you'll make plans to join us again that pay-per-view is head-to-head or I guess a double-h header rather with the UFC so they're starting it earlier normally they would start at like 7 p.m. Central 8 p.m. Eastern this one's going at 6 p.m. Eastern 5 p.m. Central they usually run about three hours and then eric and i will be live at 83 weeks.com and we want to hear from you about the next chapter in the c.m. punk and and dr. McIntyre

saga about the next page and verse of what's happening with the bloodline. There's going to be a lot to unpack, I'm sure, and we're going to be doing it live at 83weeks.com. Eric, as we're putting a button on this episode, everything you've said here today is going to be chopped up and analyzed, and people were hoping to tune in and expect to hear you eating crow for saying for all these years that AEW was not getting a renewal. And then they realized, oh, yeah, he actually never said that. but they'll repeat it anyway

they'll stick with it because they need a win Dave needs to be vindicated and needy little fuck he needs to be vindicated so whether it's true or not is irrelevant much like the rest of his reporting and of course the Kool-a-drinking internet wrestling

sickos that Tony loves so much are simply going to parrot whatever Uncle Dave says so bring it on bitches I'll respond to it I dare you at E. Bischoff, uh, next. Well, we'll beat that.

We'll see you next week. We'll be talking the cruiser weights and probably more AEW and WWE right here at 83 weeks with Eric Bischoff. Hey, hey, it's Conrad Thompson here to tell you a little more about what ad-free shows.com is all about. Get early ad-free access to more than a dozen of your favorite wrestling podcast every single week, starting at just nine bucks. That's less than 20 cents an episode each month.

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