83 Weeks with Eric Bischoff - Episode 357: NITRO Got Him Arrested

Episode Date: January 17, 2025

On this LIVE edition of 83 Weeks, Eric and Conrad take us back to 1999 and the aftermath of the infamous "Finger Poke Of Doom." Eric shares stories of his experience in WCW during this time and the impact that moment had on the world of professional wrestling.  Watch along with the guys on Peacock Monday Nitro, season 5 episode 2  The guys also cover all the latest news and notes from the week in wrestling such as the Corey Graves situation with WWE, Penta's big WWE debut and what it could mean for Rey Fenix, SNME going head to head with ALL IN and so much more.   TECOVAS - Get 10% off at https://www.tecovas.com/83WEEKS when you sign up for email and texts. PRIZE PICKS - Download the app today and use code 83WEEKS to get $50 instantly after you play your first $5 lineup! PrizePicks. Run Your Game! VIIA - Try VIIA Hemp! https://viiahemp.com/83WEEKS and use code 83WEEKS! ROCKET MONEY - Cancel your unwanted subscriptions – and manage your money the easy way – by going to https://www.rocketmoney.com/83WEEKS SAVE WITH ERIC - Stop throwing your money on rent! Get into a house with NO MONEY DOWN and roughly the same monthly payment at https://www.savewithconrad.com/savewitheric/ ADVERTISE WITH ERIC - If your business targets 25-54 year old men, there's no better place to advertise than right here with us on 83 Weeks. You've heard us do ads for some of the same companies for years...why? Because it works! And with our super targeted audience, there's very little waste. Go to https://www.podcastheat.com/advertise now and find out more about advertising with 83 Weeks. Join this channel to get access to perks: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCCqQc7Pa1u4plPXq-d1pHqQ/join BECOME A 83 WEEK MEMBER NOW: https://www.youtube.com/@83weeks/membership Get all of your 83 Weeks merchandise at https://boxofgimmicks.com/collections/83-weeks Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

SavewithConrad.com. My name is Catherine West from Bicelia, California. And for many years, my husband has listened to podcasts. And so every time I am stressed about anything, he has said, well, we need to call Save with Conrad. We ended up in a situation where we thought this would be helpful for us. We were struggling with some credit card debt that we had. We knew that we had some equity in our house that we could possibly access to get some cash out. and refinance, consolidate some of those things.

And so we were able to do that with this latest refinance that we did. It saves us so much on interest and really helps us out financially. Plus, we have a little leftover to be able to do a few things around the house that we wanted to. And the money that we were paying into those things,

we can hopefully start saving now. In that alone, we'll save $1,400 a month. And it didn't change our house payment, maybe even like $50 less. I feel like we are far away. in terms of like the United States but we I don't feel that far away from you guys I always feel like you're a phone call away you're an email away and always like available to me Diane Raver is who we worked with and every time I needed her I was

able to reach out and contact her and she was always getting right back to me that I felt heard I called with real concerns I really just needed some help and to figure out how to make this work I never felt like I was getting this because you just wanted business. Like I felt like you genuinely care about what I need and you heard what I needed and then you found a way to make that happen. And so I recommend you guys wholeheartedly. I feel like you'll be honest and helpful. And feeling hurt is just what every person wants to have done when it's in a situation like this. My name is Catherine West and I saved over $1,400 a month with savewithconrad.com.

At all that number 212, non-equal housing lender. Savewithconrad.com. Hey, hey, it's Conrad Thompson, and you're listening to 83 weeks. And we are live at 83 weeks.com. And it is Wednesday, January 15th, 2025, as we're catching up with our favorite Hall of Famer, the only man to put Vince McMahon on his ass, not once, not twice, but 83 weeks in a row. Ladies and gentlemen, Mr. Eric Bishop, Eric, how are you? man i'm doing great man it's the middle of january and i was out took my dog for a hike

in this in a t-shirt it's like 45 degrees and 45 degrees in wyoming in january is it's got a feels like like oh it's a pet peeve of mind but it's a feels like temperature of 75 or 80 it's awesome awesome well we are fired up to be here with you. We are indeed live here in the middle of January. Just a couple hours before AEW Dynamite live from Cincinnati. If you haven't already, be sure to hit that subscribe button and turn on your notifications bell. You don't want to miss us the next time we're live. Our topic today will be doing a watch along from way back when. I can't believe this is real. January 11th, 1999. And I know what you're thinking. What happened January 11th,

1999. It's the one week fallout, if you will, from the Finger Pocadoom. So that went down a week prior. What did they do the next Nitro? Everybody talks about what happened on the Finger Pocadoom Nitro, but nobody talks about how you followed it up. What happened the very next week? Eric, we've never watched this. Do you remember off the top of your head what you guys did one week removed from the finger Pocodum?

No. What? I'd wager a bet that the ratings for that show after the Fingerpoken Doom did not reflect anything other than interest from the audience. I know the Dirtsheet universe, the hardcore universe, it wasn't really like an internet wrestling universe back then. It was like, the cutting edge of it. Everybody in that world was upside down, but the general viewing audience didn't have the same reaction. And I would bet that the ratings reflected. we're going to be talking a good a good bit about the good the bad and the ugly from nitro from

1999 so if you haven't already we want you to watch along with us on peacock go ahead and start getting your peacock app ready look for nitro it's season five episode two that's what they call it in peacock nomenclature if you will it's nitro season five episode two let's talk about more current stuff just talking about today eric uh the internet wrestling community is a buzz after monday night we saw the long speculated maybe the worst kept secret in the business michael cole called it the debut of penta for wb he's now officially signed to world wrestling entertainment and made his debut on this second episode of wwe's raw on netflix but the benefit of hindsight it was probably a good thing that he got bumped to week two he's the biggest story

coming out of this episode you predicted that and said that last week did you get a chance to catch penta's debut and what did you think of the way they introduced him to a new audience i think it's amazing i saw clips of it i didn't see i didn't see it live i went back and watched it and watched a lot of it uh on social media throughout the day but i mean at the risk of sounding like a paid shell, which I'm accused of being, but you can't help but to be supportive and just ecstatic about the success that WWE has been having. And it's unfortunate that, you know, so many people think, oh, it's, you know, AEW's, you know, issue, AEW gets, you know, worked into the conversation for somehow, for some

reason, largely because he, as I was there for four or five years and they did nothing with them. And then first night out of the shoot, he's off the charts. I saw earlier today that he had like over a million hits already on YouTube in a short period of time. So I think they did a phenomenal job. I don't know how it could have been better. What could have been done differently to get just a little bit more out of it. I don't have the capacity to figure that one out. It was awesome. It was awesome. It felt like a major moment,

just the way he was presented. You know, they had new merch for him. They started promoting earlier in the day. He got the pyro. He got the lasers and the lights and the crying family in the front row. He got treated like the premiere of a Marvel movie. Yes,

he did. That's how they marketed him. Like take all the ingredients and elements that go into, you know, promoting a movie prior to the release. collapse that but put all of the same things in place make it a marketable event before it actually even happens they treated it just like a movie it's awesome as a reminder they debuted ray mysterio Vince McMahon did on a pay-per-view and Ray

Mysterio beat his ass so things are a little different in WWE I can't help but wonder Eric I know some of that is a bit of a shift because because Vince McMahon is no longer there. But part of this still has to be a message within the industry to those who are employed in AEW. I mean, even as the pinfall counts three, Michael Cole's call says something along the lines of, welcome to the big leagues, Penta. Like this is an opportunity for Triple H and WWE to show off what's possible to all of

the AEW locker room, right? I think that's happening in the normal course of business right now for WWE. I don't think that any extra effort or thought went into Pence up because he was coming from AEW. I think they treated him just like they would treat any other major star who was coming into the company. My understanding is that Polovic had his eyes on Penta for quite some time. And I doubt that he was going to do any more or any less of,

with that opportunity to introduce Pence then he did because of AEW. I think it's just a normal course of business. It's unfortunate for AEW because it kind of shines the light on what's lacking there. Yeah, but people forget about that in another week and move on to something else. I thought it was interesting. We saw if you were going to be critical of anything in the Pentamatch, there were two moments, both of which involved the ropes. And I saw Brian Alvarez say, boy, it's going to be critical.

to take him some getting used to. And I kind of forgot until he said that, oh, yeah, almost everyone else in the world uses cable for ropes, sometimes a smaller ring too, but to actually go to rope ropes, if you're going to be bouncing around and all that, like I can see how that would be different, right? That's something I don't even think about. No, I wouldn't have thought about it either. And that's a good observation.

My understanding is that Brian Elbrose did some training in the rain. Yeah, he's wrestled. Yeah. Yeah, so he would be speaking from experience in that regard. The other thing is, I wonder how big the AEW ring is. Is it an 18 by 18 or 20 by 20? I wouldn't expect you to know, but that's something if anybody's out there listening live over to appreuthshows.com, baby. Yeah, let us know.

I'd be curious because that's another adjustment, not that I've ever had to figure it out, but certainly talk to plenty of people who are transitioning from WWE to WCW. and one of the first things they commented on was the difference in the ring. Very favorable, by the way, WCW. It's one thing we had over them was an easier ring according to just about everybody. Just about everybody. Yeah, from the stories I've heard, the ring was like concrete until Vince

McMahon started wrestling himself. Yeah. And then all of the sudden, hey, we got to do something about these rings. Uh, I do want to ask you about Ray Phoenix because a pretty well known person in wrestling. I won't say their name, uh, texted me after the Pentagon debut and it just said, I feel bad for Ray Phoenix.

And I put the ha-ha on it thinking he was referencing whatever's going on right now with Phoenix and AW. I don't pretend to know all the details, but certainly looks like based on the reports we've heard, he's just not going to be used. So he's on the sidelines. But I thought, why is that such a bad thing?

But this person is a professional wrestler. and when I was asking hey can you expand on what you mean he was immediate with they're going to treat penta like the second coming of ray mysterio the new ray mysterio and there won't be room for a third ray mysterio a year from now ray's going to miss out on this meteoric rise that pina's going to enjoy and then on commentary i'll be damned that is exactly what michael cole's hammering over and over and over the second most famous luchador the second it most important luchador only behind ray mysterio they even interviewed ray mysterio after the fact

i wanted to get your take on that do you think that because at first i thought man what's the big deal ray's getting a sit of home and getting paid and he'll be fresh and healthy and he'll be all right i never considered from a wrestler perspective hey man timing is everything and he's going to miss the timing here that didn't even really click for me that penta is about to be the new ray mysterio what do you think of that there's a lot of crackers in that box conrad so let's take them out one at a time devour them um i'll probably go backwards and have to ask you to repeat a couple of them um you know you've heard we've talked about this before and i think recently within the last couple of shows i made the comment that you know there there's two ways to kill somebody off

in a wrestling business overexpose them and under expose them and the mistake i think that the average person, a fan, whether you're a hardcore fan or a casual fan, which is probably 95% of the fan base. It would seem like, wait a minute, let's just say he's making 500 grand a year. I don't know what he's making. It doesn't matter. It's a lot. Whatever it is, it's a lot to the average person, the average fan who's watching.

It's a shit ton money coming in every two weeks. And, yeah, he could stay home and play video games. That should check. That would seem to most people, like, not such a bad deal. But most people don't realize that the longer you're out of the limelight, the more daylight your star sees, meaning nobody sees it because it's daytime, you might as well be in a closet or in a witness protection program, that's not good for your character.

Neither is that much time out of the rank, which means you probably, and again, I'm not speaking from a wrestler's perspective. I'm speaking from someone outside of the business that did business with wrestlers and have had these types of conversations. But guys at a very,

very high level that knew what the hell they were talking about. So sitting home and doing nothing, even if you prefer not to have a lot of pressure on your time and your schedule, Well, you realize pretty early on that this is a dead end street because that contract will come up at some point. And they clearly have no value, see no value in you other than getting you off the market and giving you a lot of money. That's not a good thing if you want to survive past that gravy train. And that takes a while to set in, but it does.

And you're not developing. You know, you're not getting any better. you're not out there with some of the other best and breed performers that challenge you and help you get better and help you create new things so sitting home is not such a wonderful thing what was the other part of your question well i just wanted to know do you think that perhaps you know in an entertainment world and well almost every aspect of business timing is everything is ray missing his moment is penta going to become oh no no that's cool That was the best part of your question, and I'm sorry, because that's the fun part.

As you were describing that to me, the front part of the last question, I'm thinking, and maybe this is a version of, you know, a podcasters, half glass full, half glass empty, but as you were explaining to me the commentary from Paul, very briefly, I'm thinking, oh, they see him coming, and we're creating some stakes. Right off the bat. And he shows up. What's his issue? He's not the second best,

Russ would be out or a luchador behind Raymond Stereo. I am. Now, I'm not saying that's a good idea. But right off the bat, there's something to work with. So I, and that's why I don't, the half-glass empty version of this is exactly what she said. Oh, boy, I have my shot.

It didn't work out for me. somebody else got it might as well take this money from a ewe i guess that's a move um it's a bad one and i don't think it's going to be necessary i would be surprised if we don't see phoenix in and it may take a while so it depends a while but i think he's going to end up there and i think he's going to have an opportunity to tell a great story that's whatever that may be there's a great story to be told, but two really, really amazing performers in an ever-growing segments of the overall professional wrestling. Thinking about longevity here for a minute, Eric, I don't pretend to know everything

about wrestling, so I'm picking your brain. I want to ask the Hall of Famer. I want to ask the experts. You're going to just, you're blowing my cover to just blowing your shit right up now. If they would have come in as a tag team, it feels like most tag teams, especially brother tag teams have a similar story arc in wrestling they debut as the new hot tag team they enjoy some success for a period of time multiple years usually then we start a tease of a breakup maybe we actually eventually go through with it it's brother versus brother later they get back

together that's a pretty i mean but i'm just saying in a normal circumstance i do think they would have probably debuted together and as a tag team in a weird way the biggest the person who benefits the most from ray phoenix not being released from his AEW contract and having that AEW contract rolled over the person who will benefit the most is penta isn't that interesting because he's going to debut now not as a tag star he's right into as you said a marvel type welcome he's a single star day one and he's got prom-ups yeah in spanish that that that right there is a part of this whole picture i mean so many i i was excited for his family at right side that was the part oh god not me right the rest of it

i know not to diminish the the pageantry of it all and how well it was executed and all that but kind of seen that before different degrees but that raw emotion that real honest of goodness Real emotion that was created live and ended up in my heart and got me excited and got brought a tear to my eye is what made that so special. It really is. But here's another maybe perspective on what you just said. I think they both benefit. Number one, I know if he's going to, I don't know. I believe he's going to end up there in WWE, probably in less time than we think.

Perhaps, I don't know, but at this point, they're both going to be debuting as single stars. They each individually will have the focus. We'll probably have some, you know, I would imagine, right, when the time comes, however it goes down, there will be advanced warning. And you're going to get another little version or another version of the Marvel mini movie promotion that we saw with Penta. That'd be my guess. I don't know shit. But God, it just seems so obvious.

And if I'm right, and you know how often I'm right, right, you know, it's a lot. All the time. Fucking 97. It's 0.46, whatever. It's a lot. I hardly ever wrong about this stuff when I say, I predict. But I predict he's going to be there. I predict he's going to get his big of an arrival party.

And I think there's going to be instant story. there and it's going to be a good thing you know i couldn't help but notice when you were saying you know ray's going to phoenix will be there eventually you know maybe sooner rather than later what's the little laugh about i just think because i know here's what the here's the laugh and i'm not going to lie subconsciously i may be trolling everybody just a little bit with my smirks and my little juckles because i just love fucking with arcs I'm not talking about our core audience because this is, as I've said many, many, many, many, many times. We have the most enlightened wrestling of our audience, I believe, of any wrestling podcast out there.

I just believe. I know it. I get to meet some of them and I talk to them and I become friends with them. So I know how smart our audience is. But what I also know is that outside of our core audience, with little clips of what I I say, find their way out into the social media platforms, it just stirs up so much crazy shit. And people reveal themselves in so many different ways of being, you know, I don't know,

borderline bizarre. And clearly don't know much about the business of the business of the wrestling business. Beyond, they like to watch it, which is cool, not knocking it. Thank goodness for you, people. But, man, and I say these things because I know all I'm. I got to say something a little off, even if I don't do it on purpose, but when I say it, which is what happened there, I go, oh, fuck, I know how they're going to react to that. And it just makes me laugh.

It just makes me laugh. We are indeed live. If you've got a question for Eric, keep them coming. Nonsense, McGee says Eric AW rings are the same size as WWB, 20 by 20 per the Google machine. All righty. We're also getting some other questions, and I'm sure you've been peppered to death on this. we did react to the raw debut on Netflix last week. So that's available for free here on YouTube at 83 weeks.com.

But Mr. Whisper is with us and he says, Eric, have you had any thoughts about Hulk Hogan's reception at the raw on Netflix premiere? You know, we talked about it when it was fresh. You were just moments removed from seeing it. You've had a week and change to think on it a little bit. Has your feeling changed at all?

No. No. And again, it's just another one of those things. people are going to fall down on one or the other side of the fence, depending on what their predetermined perspectives already were. So there's, it doesn't, you know, debating it doesn't really matter. But he's drawing massive crowds everywhere else.

He's out promoting his beer and thousands of people are standing outside in the cold waiting to get an opportunity to meet him. You saw what kind of, you know, reaction. Of course, it was a Republican convention, So that's not even a one-off. But I think that was a one-off. I'm convinced of it. Anybody that hasn't spent any real time in L.A.

And in a working environment, you don't realize how oppressive, overwhelmingly liberal. And I'm not saying it's good or bad. I'm not taking sides. It just is what it is, folks. And that large segment of L.A., their politics has become their relationship.

religion and they get really, really invested. So I'm convinced that was it. But I did have a chance to talk to Hulk over the last couple of days and water off is back, man, and everybody associated with it. So it was a moment. It was an unfortunate moment, but hey, move along. Well, we're moving along. Thanks to Tukovas.

Anywhere worth going is worth going in good boots. Find your perfect pair with Tukovus, It craft quality Western boots for everyone, from generational ranchers to lifelong cowboys and even first-time boot buyers. Born 10 years ago in Texas, Decovis truly makes it easy for anyone to find their perfect boot. I hooked my dad up for Christmas. I got him not one but two pair, and I'm so glad I did. He's worn him to the office almost every day. And my dad has never worn cowboy boots his entire life, but man, he found the perfect fit, or actually I did, with mom's help.

the Tocovus website is unbelievably easy and every one of Toccova's boots are handcrafted with over 200 meticulous steps for broken in comfort right out of the box and that's why Esquire loves them and says there's a reason we keep coming back to Tocovas I'm a big believer in it I think you will be too my dad got the gray Chelsea boot and he also got the ostrich skin and man he loves the ostrich skin it's super comfortable it's his very favorite pair of shoes now and if you've ever wondered if you can pull off a pair of boots with your personal style, you owe it to your feet to pull on a pair of Tocovus. Plus, with Ticova's Best in the West Guarantee, man, you get free

returns and exchanges for 30 days. And right now, you can get 10% off at tcovus.com slash 83 weeks. When you sign up for email and text, that's 10% off at T-E-C-O-V-A-S.com slash 83 weeks. Tocovus.com slash 83 weeks. See site for details. Kovas, point your toes west. I love those boots. They are awesome. The best pair of boots I've ever put on my feet, and I put out a lot of boots. I love that.

Well, somebody else is maybe looking for some boots that are made for walking. Mr. Corey Graves has got the internet spun up this week. He shared his thoughts Monday night, basically implying on social media that he had had his dream of being a professional wrestler taken from him. It is best to be a company man. And if you recall, Eric, what's by the time he did commentary for both Raw and Smackdown. So that was the time when he was the voice of the number one

and the number two show in all of professional wrestling. But right now he feels like he's been replaced by someone more famous. Of course, there is the inference there that, oh, he's talking about Pat McAfee. and a lot of people in the wrestling world were convinced oh this is a work i was asked if it was a work and i don't think it started as one but man if corey really wanted to get back in the ring controversy creates cash he may have accidentally on purpose maybe created a russomania moment wouldn't that be cool corey graves and pat mackafee at russimony

sign me up i'm for that i actually like that and i know normally people hate announcer battles, but when they're both athletes, one's a former NFL player, who we've seen wrestle before, and warns Corey Graves, who's been a wrestler his whole life, uh, that could be interesting. Do you think we see that or is this not the best idea for Corey, do you think? I love this business sometimes. Isn't it great? And this is one of those times.

This to me right now is one of the most interesting scenarios potentially. wrestling mania oh you have the big names everybody can fantasy book and it's all fucking awesome but this i am so hoping that this is an angle by the way did you see daves there's comments about this today yeah if we see him on tv it's a work and if we don't if we don't it's not that motherfucker studied last night oh my god but he must have been up all night reading Well, to be fair, he did tease when he woke up on Tuesday morning. I think he tweeted something like, I'm going to be at NXT tonight. I've got a lot to say, something like that.

And then allegedly, again, we don't know, and I don't even want to know what's real and what's not. Like, I want to be entertained. But we saw, we saw reports that they saw I'm going through Orlando security flying home Tuesday morning before NXT actually started. So he was not on the NXT. he show after he had promoted it so it lends even more that's that's a little detail and I don't know how this absolves they must have any stupidity whatsoever statement is what it was if he's on TV I get it I get you but that's a level let's let's let's just say it's

work let's let's have some fun of this act one which is Pat McAfee's just doing his thing they're both just walking down the street, living their own lives, until all of a sudden something happens, an inciting incident, as it's referred to in structural storytelling, something happens that snatches one of them out of that reality and thrust them into another, that in this case, being Corey Graves. And in his emotional state of mind, tusses a hand grenade, kind of sort of, but not really, over in Pat McAfee's direction. That is such a brilliant setup for the story. If indeed, it's a setup, I have no idea.

I just want it to be, because if it is, it's fucking awesome. But the level of detail that you just described in order to facilitate the story and help support it, if that happened, if they actually said, okay, Let's make sure you make a comment that you're going to be at next because we know you're not going to be. Let's make sure we get you to the Orlando airport, make sure somebody takes your picture, which they would be doing anyway. I've been in and out of there, having not been on TV for 15 years. I can't get through that airport about people asking me by picture and my autograph.

That's not me putting myself over. That's the honest truth, especially during the busy part of the day. And you can only imagine the amount of attention Corey Graves gets because, number one, he would get a lot of attention if he'd never spend in front of a camera. He's a cool looking dude, but with the tats and the look and, you know, the GQ vibe he's got going on, not too many people don't notice Corey Graves, but especially now. My point is, if they went to that extent to create the illusion,

then they're really, really on their game. I fear that that's not the case. That's the part that makes me go, oh, maybe it's not. I actually don't go the other way, man. I'll be honest with you because you got to remember it wasn't all that long ago in the scheme of things we saw Cody Rhodes and Kevin Owens get in a fight after a pay-per-view and it wasn't captured by WWE cameras. It was a parking lot fight and they just knew fans are going to be out there

and they're going to be looking for pictures and autographs and things like that. And somebody's going to whip their phone out and record it. and post it to social and we can manifest this viral moment. I feel like this regime is going to do more and more of that, especially if last week they opened the show using the words, work and shoot and all that, it feels like to me, maybe this didn't start as the plan,

but it becomes the plan, but I want to hope that this was a work all along and we're going to get a really fun, uh, what's real and what's not moment at wrestling. And that's the magic of this. Yes. Let me say this before. The magic is that sweet spot in the middle. Yeah, I know all the rest of it.

Yeah, it's all scripted. Okay. Great. It's you. It is when it is. This is real or is it? Is that real? I don't know.

Do it just what you and I are doing right now. That's the sweet spot. And that's what sucks people in. And here's what gets me way too excited. If you are right, and I pray that you are as a fan, all the enjoyment that I know is to come in the future, if they're thinking at that level and thinking about ways to create virality in their storylines

that so far hasn't really been done because it's always obvious. Always know, even if it's done well, you know. But in this case, and I are not sure. And you're much more of a wrestling fan than I am, and I spent 30 years doing it. So between the two of us and our different perspectives, if we're not sure, either as anybody else. And if they indeed architected that point or this particular stage of it, that tells me how much fun we're going to have in the future. Because it's the tip of the iceberg in terms of what's possible. What you're really doing in a weird way is you're turning back the clock.

You're taking what everybody has, and people have asked me for years, Conrad, since you and I've been doing this a lot. Now, do you think you could have pulled off the NWO and Lugar and all in today's environment? It is K-Fave dead because of social media is what they're asking. You get that question every single time I go to an event. And my answer is always the same. No, somebody just has to figure out how to make it work for them instead of against them. It's kind of sunsue art of work kind of shit, right? But it is what it is. And if, this is hopeful, if, half glassful, if they're operating at that level,

and this is an example of their work so far, we're going to have so much, the wrestling business is just beginning to grow. Now you're entering a whole different level of storytelling. I wanted to ask you two more questions. we're going to get to our watch along, which if you haven't already, we want to remind you, join us on Peacock at season 5, episode two of Nitro, one week removed from the finger polka do them, and we are going to get there. Eric, I wanted to ask you about, you know, with what we saw with Fenta the other night,

you know, they were certainly making a big deal out of it on WW programming. And a lot of his former co-workers from AEW congratulated him on social media. And you brought up social media and, hey, does that kill Kay, Fabe and all that sort of thing. Dave Meltzer pointed out, I think correctly on Wrestling Observer Radio that there's almost no chance

that if the opposite were to happen here, we would see WWE talent tweeting congratulations to their former co-worker debuting with AEW. I thought that was interesting. Why do you think there is a difference there that

the talent feel comfortable congratulating Penta for his WWE debut, at least in AEW, that locker room does, but they quote unquote no better in WWE than to do that. According to Dave Meltzer. So you think that's just much to do about nothing? Well, Bailey probably does because didn't she show up to, but as Bailey and somebody else showed up for, uh, it has been around to support Sasha Banks. There you go. Well, fuck, there goes that narrative. Okay. Well said. Well said. I also wanted to ask you about, you know,

I don't know if you've seen this or not, but this really got everybody started up at the beginning of the week. We know that we're one week away from the return to Saturday night's main event. They're coming to San Antonio and it's happening next weekend. Eric and I are going to do our best to be live right here on 83 weeks.com. And we hope you'll join us because anytime there's a Saturday night's main event, you know there's going to be a big story coming out of it. Like an introduction last week to the brand, or last month, rather, but now this is going to be the go home Saturday night's main event for the Royal Rumble. So I expect some storyline advancement, maybe that not. But the schedule was released for the rest of the year, Eric.

And Saturday night's main event live on NBC and on Peacock is going to be head to head with AEW's double or nothing. It's also going to be head to head with AEW all-e their very first stadium show in the suburbs of Dallas and Arlington Texas live on NBC for free and on Peacock this feels so Jim Crockett

promotions WWF I just can't shake loose of it what a counter programming note Dave Meltzer is on record is saying hey if Tony doesn't move the pay per view to Sunday he could lose 30,000 pay per view buys because of this announcement

and that honestly didn't even cross my mind that oh this isn't just we're going to compete but we're costing buys he's already announced of the 12th he's already sold I don't know well over 10,000 tickets would you even if you were Tony would you consider moving your pay-per-view to Sunday to avoid Saturday night's main event or is it time to do battle what he can't do battle He's either going to get run over by a truck or he's going to move and be embarrassed. There is no battle. This just makes me laugh.

If Tony Kahn knew as much about business as Ted Turner, maybe he wouldn't be in this position. I'm sorry, it was a layup. Yeah, there's, here's what's hard for me to believe. I'm not saying I don't, the door is open for me, but this kind of a move, if indeed it was designed intentionally and not just a manifestation of weeks worth of programming and planning and ad sales influences and sports, blah, blah, blah, blah, there's a million things that go into programming a schedule. On the surface, I'm laughing my ass off because, you know, it's a balsy move, but I just, I don't see them taking it.

I don't see them being NBC or WWE, putting themselves at any kind of legal exposure or predatory practices. because that's just fun in a way. AEW financially is not a threat to anybody or anything. They're operating in their own universe and it's fulfilling the owner's goals and it really doesn't have anything to do with the exception of some talent transitions from time to time, but there's even less of those now.

but so I can't see NBC or WWE or TKL going okay let's just let's kick him I don't see it I think it was more than likely because I think they're risk adverse maybe TKL and NBC I don't want to end up in court or something like this it's not worth it there's no there's no upside to it I think it's just probably a matter of weeks and months worth of scheduling and planning and and going, okay, we need one, this order, where's the best place for it? And, oh, by the way, look what else is going on? That's my guess is that's what happened.

I don't think it was an intentional procket type move, as you pointed out. I don't think it was malicious. Feels that way. Looks that way. But I think it's too risky to do that. But something that's not risky is, you're going to have more fun with prize picks, this NFL playoffs.

I am so pumped that the playoffs are here this weekend is going to be filled with good games. Saturday, we've got a couple of big ones. It's the Texans and the Chiefs, and we've also got the commanders and the lions. And then on Sunday, we got the Rams and the Eagles and then the Ravens and the Bills.

And prize picks has made this NFL season so much fun for me. And right now, there's over 10 million members and billions of dollars in awarded winnings. and that's all because prize picks has made daily fantasy sports accessible to all. It's the best place to get real money sports action, and it's so easy. You just pick more or less on two players for a shot up to 200x your cash. Run your game all season long on prize picks. They're America's number one daily fantasy sports app, and I really enjoy it because it's so easy.

Take a look at this Chiefs game. It's this simple. Do you think that Mahomes is going to have more or less than 250 yards, for example? Do you think Travis Kelsey is going to get more or less than one touchdown? There's another example. And boom, you place those two, you're in play. That's it. That's all you got to do to have fun with prize picks.

And more importantly than that, you're going to win a bunch of cash. I've had a lot of fun with this and I don't have a pro team. I'm a big college football guy. So the idea that I got to do this on Sundays made the games that much more fun. Download the app today. Use our code 83 weeks and you'll get $50 instantly after you play your first $5 lineup. That's worth repeating. Download the Prospex app today. Use our code 83 weeks. You'll get $50 instantly after you play your first $5 lineup. Prospex run your game. You know what's fun about price picks? What's that? I've never ever bet on sports. I mean,

I think I bet on a Tyson. seen a holyfield fight was want a shit ton of money to um but it's just that my thing and i'm i'm a real passive football fan i like football and i like to watch it occasionally during the season but very invested during the playoffs but one of the things i've learned to love to do is i drive around on sundays i put my dog on my truck i go to the infinity sports app and listen to their coverage of the NFL on game day it is phenomenal the way they cover every game game that's going on. They're on for like eight hours throughout the entire day. The way they cover every game is absolutely phenomenal. It's entertaining as hell. I have much more fun doing that

than I do watching on television. Now, Enterprise Picks. I'm getting so much information and so much of that show is built around the odds, right? And the lines. And that's like the premise of just about every conversation. It always comes back to that. So you're constantly getting update updated on you know kind of inside information you think can make you pretty smart about shit you don't know much about and you listen to it long enough and you start getting a feel for things and I've made a couple bets and I've won I think I'm three out of five right now I don't put a lot of money I'm doing it more for entertainment but I'm finding myself learning more about the game and become a bigger fan of the game because of this opportunity and I maybe I'm weird that

way. But it is really interesting how much this opportunity has intersected with entertainment and how well it's working. What it is is fun. Go download the Prospex app. Use our code 83 weeks. Place your first $5 lineup and here comes $50 instantly. Eric, there's a lot more I want to talk to you about and the questions are starting to come in. But without further ado, we need to get going on our watch along. Watch along with us on Peacock. It's season five, episode two. Eric, make sure you're muted. I'm at all triple zero. Are you locked and loaded ready to go? I am ready, captain. Here we go. In three, two, one play. This is from January 11th, 1999. We're seeing what happened the week prior. Of course, we know this is the

finger poke of doom era. You know, I don't know that you've seen it, but our buddy Guy Evans, he's been busy as a beaver lately. He's hooked up with David Penzer and did sitting ringside part two, which I just got a copy of and I can't wait to dig in. And now he's got another book Beyond Nitro. He actually sat down with the creator of the NWO logo, which we've talked about here on the show before. Man, is there a higher recommendation we can give for all things WCW than Guy Evans as a resource? I mean, I read that part of the story, uh, when I think her name was Jenny Sloan, perhaps.

Maybe you got the name wrong. I apologize Jenny if I did. But what a fascinating story. story. I mean, he took something that, yeah, in the big scheme of things, not too many people think about the logo, right? There's so much other stuff that took place over that three or a period of time. But that story about how it was developed, the situation, how it all came to be, Jennifer, I think is her name, Jenny Sloan, if I got the name right, her story, you know, just coming to work for Disney and kind of on the cutting edge, a lot of the

the technology that was available to Disney at that time. It was really a fascinating story, and it just adds another layer to that whole era. It's really great. Jenny Sloan and her entire interview, or at least a good portion of it from Guy Evans' new book, Beyond Nitro, is available now. Go check it out at guyevansbooks.com.

Eric and I are big believers in Guy and his work. He helped Eric with his second book. He's done now two books with Dave Penzer. we loved the Nitro book and now beyond Nitro was a follow-up effort. He's sort of become one of the more preeminent wrestling authors in the space, don't you think? Well, he was also really, I believe, I didn't hear this directly from Dwayne Johnson, rock or Frank Gehrertz.

But I guess I did hear this a little bit for Brian. Their reason for doing who killed WCW was largely because of Guy Evans book. Wow. Because of the new information, the relevant interviews that guy did, he did over, I think it was 114 interviews with executives who were involved and not just, you know, on the outside looking in. So it was one of the reasons that that whole Killed WCW production happened. And I think that production pretty much ended just about any open-ended issues or questions about what really happened. So I'll always be grateful to that. Rick Flair is back here.

He is opening up Nitro as we are live here on January 11th in Knoxville, Tennessee in front of 13,000, 24 fans, 12,000, 280 of them were paying fans who paid a big total for a live TV show, $261,285. It is a huge arena, though. This is a 26,000 cedar. Wait, is that right? I can't be right. But that was written in The Observer back then. Show opened with a flare interview. He put J.J. Dillon back in power.

He said Hogan would defend the title at Super Brawl. He called out the LW and put them over as the most talented wrestlers in the company and asked them to join WCW and give him their shirts. They all do except Ray Mysterio Jr. who walked out. He challenged handing to a match on the show. It was a great interview. But the one thing nobody in WCW has figured out is when they use the word tradition to modern fans, it's a total heel word meaning old timers and they think it's

some baby face phrase. What do you think of that, that maybe this generation of wrestlers, the Rick Flares of the world, when they talk about tradition, they think it's something to be celebrated, but the fans of the NWO who like maybe the cooler edgier heels, they think tradition sucks. They think it's outdated. Does you ever give any thought to that? I think that's an interesting perspective that he has there. I'm not 100% sure I follow it.

But if what I'm hearing is that there is a percentage of the fan base that we're LWO fans who really don't give a shit about tradition and the values. No, no, not LWO, Eric. I'm saying NW. I know we were talking about the LWO. Okay. I'm sorry. I'm here in this era, tradition is, is not a good term.

It's a heel term. Like, no, but the fans don't want tradition, Eric. I don't want you, Eric. They don't want tradition. I don't think that that was necessarily. I think it's partially true, I guess. But keep in mind, NWO was getting over. They became cool heels.

So they had their support. Anybody that comes out and tries to position themselves as having an opposite perspective is going to get, he's going to get a heel reaction from that particular part of the audience. we wanted intentionally to split the audience. We wanted WCW and the fans of traditional wrestling and the fans of the Rick Flares and the and the Roddy Piper's and that era and the styles, even though Red Hart, for example, wasn't older than Rick or even part of Rick's peer group. I believe Brett was a little bit younger than Rick.

But they represented that style, that tradition, which was The antithesis, if you will, of what the NWO was all about, which is essentially anarchy. They want to take over the joint. J.J. Dillon back on a screen here, he's going to be the commissioner for WCW. What did you think, and we've talked a little bit about his role in that, or his performance in that role. What did you think of Rick Flair, the commissioner? I mean, it really didn't make all that much sense, but, I mean, it wasn't an excuse to get him on TV and get him some mic time. So I guess everybody was on board with it.

What did you think? To be honest, I think it diminishes someone like Rick in that. Diminish might not be the right word. It takes the edge off of him. You do get to see another side of that character because now that character is involved in discussions and story and parts of a story that are different than what we normally see them in. You get to hear a different perspective when you're cutting promos,

perhaps like we're seeing now, Rick. so you get another glimpse at the character but I think it takes away it takes it takes the edge off of you're no longer dangerous when you're in a suit and tie not not the same kind of dangerous so I generally don't like it doesn't work for me but it's been done a bunch of time so it's a tool let's do some questions here Carl Hayes is with us here live appreciate you hanging out with us, Carl, as we watch this old episode of Nitro from January 11th, 1999, just one week after the finger poker doom.

Carl says, do you think TNA signs a mainstream or more distributed station and gets more eyes? TNA women's champ was on NXT scouting last night. The two brands have had lots of crossover. Eric? It's possible, right? It's possible at TNA and WWE. are going to do some kind of joint venture and maybe because, you know,

wrestling's working on CW and they could probably use more content. So maybe these will be the relationship and strategy and deal making. Maybe you will see TNA on CW. I put that around near zero. Let's play. If we can't, you may be right, but why?

But I can't believe anybody. believes any of this bullshit. WWE has T&A on their programming all the time so they can fuck up every other promotion in the world and counter-program the shit out of them. They just had to award $20 million to MLW 13 months ago because they were trying to push the narrative that WWE is trying to not play fair

and try to create a monopoly and, well, how can we have a monopoly if we're promoting other brands on our very own show? Now, it's not the A show. and it's not the B show. It's the C show, but by God, look, there's T and A right there. So what do you mean we didn't? We accidentally on purpose scheduled head to head with the biggest day,

EW pay-reviews on free TV. Not us. We're a friend to everyone in wrestling. Look what we're doing for T and A over here. Did you watch on our C show on the C-D? Man, fuck off. They ain't going to do nothing with T&A for real. That's there to just C-YA.

I don't disagree with you, but because I see it a little differently than you do, but essentially we talked about this before. We talked about one of the reasons why we're seeing TNA people on WWE and vice versa. We pointed out that very point, which is why I think expanding it and assisting TNA to find a home on C&A to find a home on C&A, is an extension of that same strategy. It is a more credible extension. It takes that goodwill to the next level. It makes it even harder for someone to go, hey, yeah, but look at you mean guys.

What do you mean? We've taken this company over here that couldn't get television outside of wherever they are, and we're facilitating an opportunity for them independently of us to have a television show. and oh, by the way, the talent cross over back and forth, which helps both of them. It's not that absurd of an idea. It's

it's taking it a little further than you would. Come on, Eric. Look, I'm not saying it's happening. I'm saying it's possible because it is an extension of the same logic. Unabstert. You think here's the most absurd shit Eric

Bischoff has ever said on anything. That's courage of ground, brother. I believe. it. I believe it, though, because here's what you just said differently. Conrad, I think Nick Conn would be, would be in a great humanitarian that he is. He would probably go negotiate on TNA's behalf and negotiate a new huge television rights deal where half benefits his company and his shareholders and half go to this Canadian company. What? There's no chance that Nick Con is going to go out and negotiate a TV deal for TNA. There's no chance. I didn't suggest you would.

Well, you're saying that there's going to be talent going back and forth and maybe they can get a deal because of, no, no way. You even reference CW, NXT's on CW. Nikon's not going to invite T&A to CW or help get them on CET. No way. All right. No chance. By the way, I'm a fan of everything WW is doing.

I'm just saying, we're not going to go. Like, well, even when WWE was helping ECW, they didn't get them a TV deal. they sent them 150 grand a week and acted like oh we did you guys a favor I know you've never been sued and lost $20 million either that's exactly right which is why I think they're going to continue to placate T and by the way if TNA decides they don't like this deal anymore and they want to take their ball and go home and they won't but if they did decide they want to do that they'd just do it with somebody else they'd do it with New Japan or somebody else and why wouldn't you

change anything. I would. Oh, you did many times. Of course, we're watching a promo here all about tradition and we're seeing the heritage throughout the years of WCW, which is kind of fun because you're saying

the evolution from the old NWA to now what happened last week. Inter spliced in here with Rick Flair and Terry Fonk and Oli and R. and Anderson is the finger poke of doom and the modern era. and it really does cover a lot of ground when you talk about how much not just the company changed or the industry changed but just society the world even bigger than america i mean look at jack briscoe like that's this is what wrestling used to be and at that point the world didn't even look like that anymore uh it's interesting to go back and look at these clips like this and think about just how deep the history of wcw slash the n wa really was right And wrestling in general, you know, it's been such an important part of our calls are obviously bigger now or more visible in so many different ways. But it's a uniquely American product.

And when you read about the history of it, you know, the fact that Abraham Lincoln used to be a professional wrestler at one point. I mean, the history of professional wrestling in the United States is a fascinating history. And seeing a slice of it, as we did here, I always catches my eye. I'll always stop what I'm doing to watch it when I see it. we're finally seeing the announcers at the desk you see larry's abisco taking his bow the professor mike today is doing his thing and man the connective tissue between wcw and a ew is bigger than just tbs and t and t it's that man right front and center tony chivani in the internet wrestling community last week eric decided that tony wasn't at a e w dynamite

because he got suspended because he sent a shitty tweet to the guy from new japan who said some less than favorable things about Tony Con and then he deleted it. Little did they know that which they would have had they listened to Tony's podcast. His lovely wife, Lois, had a hip replacement. So he had to be home with his wife who, you know, needed help walking with her new hip. Isn't it interesting how sometimes the truth is just not nearly interesting enough? Which goes on to explain about 90% of this bullshit you hear during shoot interviews from everybody, including me, by the way, because you've got to make that

story a little bit more interesting to listen to. And then before you know it, after you've told that story a couple hundred times, people that hear it go, wait a minute, I was there. What the fuck are you talking about? It happens. Tony Chivani is on the call tonight. You and I are about an hour away from dynamite starting tonight. And as everyone's listening to this, they already know what happened.

But one of the matches this. been promoted tonight is powerhouse Hobbs going for an AEW world title shot against John Moxley and there's been a little bit of a movement in the internet wrestling community who says hey we need that i guess fans were upset at tony con's announcement last weekend that there was going to be a 12 man tag on collision the death riders this group eric that was supposed to be this group outsiders who were here to take over they took the world title and maybe they're trying to take over the promotion. Maybe that sounds familiar as we watch clips of the NWO here from 1999. And now they're teaming with Chris Jericho's group. So wait a minute. I thought you were

taking over the whole thing, but now you're just teaming with AEW heels. And I guess some hardcore AEW fans were pretty upset about the lack of continuity and storylines there. And there's been a little bit of a movement from people who say, now's the time to take the belt off Moxley. Now's the time to make powerhouse Hobbs. I know there's been a big contingent. I know JR has been a big proponent of powerhouse Hobbs, and he's back after a long injury, a big absence,

and he is back and bigger and more jack than ever before. If you were going to make a move like this and push a guy, this would be the right time. I mean, we've reintroduced him. If you're getting a little bit of pushback on your creative, Eric, is now the time to pull the lever? It feels like you did this once before with Lex Lugar and Hulk Cogan. Could this be Powerhouse Hobbs night?

Would you even consider it right now, Eric? Right now I would consider anything if I was Tony Kahn because it just all you need to do is, you know, find some comments about death riders, anything on social media, go to Twitter, X, whatever, and just look at any of the threats. The audience is made up their mind. They're done with it.

And it's overwhelming. It's not close. Most of the time, the issues like this are always 50-50, 60-40 sometimes. This is like 95 to 5. It's dead. It's not working. Why not? What have you got to lose?

There's nothing but potential upside because this story isn't working. It's easy to figure that out. You're a data analyst or whatever you are, head of math, at the Jaguars, look at your own math and come to a conclusion. It's pretty simple. It's not working. So now you've got an opportunity. People are excited about it. They're anticipating it. They want it for him. So now the flame has been lit. All you've got to do is add a little fuel to it and give the guy a push. And it's not like you have to do a risk analysis. You have nothing to lose and everything to gain, which is why they won't do it.

They're actually in Cincinnati tonight. They're set up for 50. By the way, I hope I look like an asshole for saying that and they prove me wrong. It works and it's hugely successful. I hope I'm wrong. Hey, I'm a fan of Powerhouse Hobbs and I know that Tony likes to monitor Twitter. So if you're in our live feed,

don't go spamming Tony don't do it saying we want powerhouse because Eric said you wouldn't do it you better not do it Tony don't do it uh what I find as interesting is they are running smaller buildings Eric and and you've been a big proponent of this and I really enjoyed the run of shows they had at the Hammerstein there's a smaller more intimate venue but it felt like the crowd was really with it I like the visual even my wife commented how cool it looked tonight I haven't seen it yet but they're at a music center in Cincinnati, Ohio. So it's not like around where it's an arena where a basketball team plays or a hockey

plays or something like that. There's a stage and you're playing almost like a giant theater. I think it seats around 8,000 for a traditional concert or something like that. They've got it set up for around 1,500 in Cincinnati. And I did a double take when I saw that here, right? Because again, I'm from Alabama. What the hell do I know? But Cincinnati feels like a pretty big market.

Only 1,500 tickets. I think I might be looking for some sort of stunt today to get people excited that, hey, anything really can happen on dynamite. Opportunity time, like I said, they've got nothing to lose. You know, Cincinnati is a great wrestling market. It has historically been a really good wrestling market, even though it has been saturated over the decades with a lot of good wrestling. So it's not like it's a, it's a market that's kind of here nor there as far as

wrestling fans are concerned. It's a solid market. And to only draw 1,500 people back to my data analyst conversation, I'd analyze that data and ask myself a serious question. The people around me that I trust, what do we got to lose? Absolutely nothing. And what a shock it would be. And it would also, Tony would also kind of establish himself, reestablish a little bit, himself with the audience by giving them a little bit of hope that maybe he's not going to just stick with this thing until he rides it into the ground it never got off to a good start to begin with it's never done well it's not where it's not like it was working and then it's not it started out bad and got worse make a move we uh we just watched some fun interactions

there with uh chris jericho i do want to talk about that but very quickly i found that is the 36th largest DMA here in America. So not the biggest, not the smallest, but 36, pretty good-sized crowd. Pretty good-sized kid running to the ring here, too. That's Sonny Ono trailing the cat. I recently sat down with Ernest Miller for ad-free shows.com. I mean, we got more detail about his career than I ever have before. We even spent a lot of time talking about the movie, The Wrestler.

I was so inspired to actually go watch that afterwards after we finish that conversation. but we really started off talking about his transition from the world of karate to the world of pro wrestling after meeting you Eric let's take a listen back in two months he said come to my office he said what took you so long why did it take you so long they even you know take advantage of this he said I told you I can make you a weapon man I told you this can make you money it can make you famous and I said you know what Eric I got about 24 young black belt young brown belts, who were about to become a black belt.

If I had just jumped and left them, they probably would never been right. You know, it's a black belt because I'm the ones that train them and teach them. They want a black belt from me. So if I left the school, I couldn't present them with the black belt. Your son being one of them. So bang, soon at graduation day, they graduated, got the black belt. The next week I was in school. I remember going to class

Every day boom boom Three four days a week We had class Then one day About maybe a month into school Eric came in I have to think he came in with NWO They were practicing something

And Eric came down Then Eric looked at me He was like Ernest What are you doing here? I said Eric I told you I was going to start As soon as we finished The class

He said I know but He said Have you got to be done paid it and I was like no he was like what he said we are supposed to pay you to be down here you see so I was getting paid to be in just showed up at the power plant you weren't he didn't like you there you just showed up I just showed up and it was a good thing I did because everybody in there knew me for me they didn't know me as Eric bishop guy they just knew for me they knew my hard work they knew everything you know and

They just let me in. They asked me to sign this day. I went down there and said, Eric told me to come down here. They signed me up pool, putting right in the class. Man, how fun is that?

Catch the entire conversation we had with Ernest the Kat Miller and all of our other episodes of False Finish. Over at ad-free shows.com, we've caught up with everybody, Glacier, wrath, even text Schlazinger. I mean,

lots of other fun ones too, man. It's a who's who, really, of, hey, whatever happened to that guy. Well,

it's all available at ad-free. Shows.com. That's where you'll find other exclusive series. You can't hear anywhere else with Tully Blanchard, Mike Keota, David Crockett, Lex Lugar, The Godfather, and so much more. Go check it out right now. Become a big part of what we're doing at ad-free shows.com. So Ernest the Kat Miller here, really taking it to Perry Saturn, but we just saw a fun little segment with Chris Jericho. Jericho was wearing his Monday night Jericho shirt. He had the crazy hair going. He had Ralphus with him. This is my favorite. favorite version of Chris Jericho. I enjoyed his his work I saw on VHS as before when I was

a tape trader over in Japan, but he never really did much for me as like just the white meat baby face Chris Jericho and WCW. But when he became the Conemption having David Pinser jacket ripping Ralphus accompanying top knot sporting Chris Jericho, that was fun. What were you thousand and one holes? Yes. What do you think? of that evolution of Chris Cherko, we finally got to see his real personality come out. He is such an amazing talent, you know, and everything, all that stuff was him. It's not like we're all sitting in a room and say, hey, let's, you know, let's do this with Chris, let's do that with Chris.

You know, nobody was coming up with this stuff, but Chris, and he was so good at it. It's like, I couldn't wait to get to the TV to see what he was going to come up with next. You know, amazing. and he just got better and better and better at it too. How many times does he reinvented his character? It's fascinating. Fascinating. I think he's doing it right now.

I think we're going to be seeing some interesting Chris Jericho. I know everybody's going to go nuts over that, but half glass full, people, half glass full. Did you watch, did you catch his match last week with Dax from FTR? yep what do you think i think we're going to see an evolution of chris jericho i don't know when i i think i think we're in the midst of an evolution let's put it that way i i don't talk to chris i'm not hinting in anything i'm not trying to be cute just telling you what i think in my heart. I've known the guy for 25 years. I know a little bit about how he thinks. Just a little bit. Not a lot. We're not good buddies. Never were we were. We're friendly.

That's what we are. We're friendly. We touch base maybe once a year on a text. But I just have feeling. Michael Borland is with us here live and he says Eric said to see Jericho's in ring work now in A.W wanted to ask you about his time in WCW. He left for WWE and was put against top guys, looking back, were there booking decisions you would have done over to give him a push. So if you had it to do over again, because this is what we're seeing right here, this feud he's starting with Perry Saturn is going to ultimately be the one where there's a dress involved and the loser has to wear a dress and lots of people assumed, well, he's going to get this as punishment because he's not resigning his new contract and he's going to be putting in notice and leaving in fact

it went to parry saturn instead but i know that he was frustrated that he had worked himself he felt like into a good spot with goldberg and it just felt like that match was never going to happen we know you know things probably worked out the way it was supposed to but if you had to do over would you have done anything differently with chris cheroko and wc wc not as far as he and Bill Goldberg was concerned, I wouldn't. I mean, I don't know how far we can take this hypothetical, but if I could go back in time and decide to go Jericho Goldberg in hopes of keeping him, would I have done that even knowing what I know today?

Probably not, because that match would have been a disaster. Just you couldn't, and I know Chris will take exception to that. He might be pissed off of me for saying that, because Chris would believe, especially at that time, that he would be capable of having a match with anybody, especially Bill, he wanted it. But Bill was not ready for that match, and there's nothing that Jericho could have done in the ring to get him comfortable. Could he have gotten in his head and then work it out?

Maybe, but I don't think so. Bill was not ready emotionally to do anything other than what he was. When I say emotion, I mean, his head wasn't enough in his, character and he didn't have enough repertoire. My point, he was great at what he did. But if you had to, now we're going to start talking about 20, 30 minute matches, far more complex matches than Bill had at that point. Just wasn't ready.

So no, I wouldn't have done it differently because I think the outcome would have been worse, to be honest, as much as I didn't want to lose Jericho. I tried hard to keep him. We had a good relationship when he left. So people want to read into that and punishment for not re-up and all that just internet dipshit basement dwelling dirt sheet bullshit. It wasn't true. I tried to keep him.

I was willing to pay to keep him. But Chris, rightfully, saw himself at a higher level than he knew he was going to be able to climb in a reasonable amount of time, short period of time. He knew for the next six months or year he was in the position he was in. and there was not likely an opportunity to break out of it. He wasn't going to be patient. Chris himself had said that he intentionally came to WCW as a stepping stone to get to WV. It was a strategy that he had contemplated and worked towards before he ever got to WCW.

So it was just the right time for Chris. And there's nothing I could have done or should have done actually to try to change that. Who's card? My wife sold Jag. That's what I was going to ask because I saw it was blocked in and you would acknowledged it, so I knew it was someone's car. So the building you pulled up here, is this the WCW office? Are you out of the red tower at this point or the big tower?

Yeah, we're out of the CNN tower. This was the log cabin, as they called. It was called, it was on log cabin drive. So they referred to it as the log gap log cabin office. Did you have to scan your key like that every day or was that just part of the show? That was for show. Well, I mean, I had to scan my key, but I, I intentionally put it in backwards. So it did.

Right. I just didn't know because sometimes I know that, you know, people don't act. They may have the technology, but they don't use those. I mean, I know we did in some cases, but, uh, wait, just so I'm clear, this is the lobby of the WCW office in night. Yes, it is. My offices were right down that hallway where the door was close. I don't know who she is.

Who's the fellow there? Do you know who that is? Uh, I do not. It's written in the, newsletters at the time that this video is way too long, but it is noteworthy because it is the first appearance of the legendary Janie

Engel. And yeah, this is kind of interesting because we've never really watched this together. I don't even remember watching it back then. I'm sure I did, but the finger poke of doom, I mean, this is probably, because this is the, this is hour too. So at this

point, Raw was on. The first hour was unopposed. But I assume when I saw this was a vignette, I'm probably watching whatever's happening on the other show how did you feel about crash tv this is the same calendar year where we know Vince russo is going to come on and crash tv became you know sort of a thing he was known for what do you think of that with the benefit of hindsight do you think at times nitro needed more of that or was that just a strategy that worked because of the craziness they don't even know what crash tv means so it's crash tv coming out of russo's mouth

always meant to me no fucking plan no story just crazy shit just shock he doesn't It was like an hour's turn of professional wrestling. There was no real creativity in it. It's just shock for the sake of shock and to call it Crash TV. Well, I've always thought Crash TV just meant it was fast. So an example might be just last week with Jeff Gerrit. We watched, oh look, Jenny Engle, there she is. She was in real life your right-hand man, right, the right-hand woman.

She was indeed one of the most important people outside of my wife and children in my life. at the time. And that, by the way, is my office. Wow. This is weird. Okay. So I guess I'm just a couple of seconds behind me. Oh, no, you were watching where Silva is. I'm at 32, 47, 48, 49, 50. So maybe just a couple of seconds behind you, but I'm excited to see what would have been your office. Now, this, will this be the same office where you allegedly put on a Viking helmet and took out your front teeth, daring to fight talent? you asshole is this the same office or is that the one of the tower

no it's actually this office is this the same office where you threw coffee and Eddie Guerrero or is that a different one no that was in that was in San Antonio or I was that was that old monitor look at oh that's my desk wow how about that I haven't seen that picture up on the wall behind me yeah that was a that's a famous portrait so yeah this is actually my office i love flare with his big purple robe in the

background acting like this is his office this was really a fun i mean i did in my see that nw for a life little black plate on the round table yes my daughter my daughter made me that and i still have it oh wow how cool is that yeah um is you know as much of the uh the relationship been pretty strained between Rick and I, but once it was over, I mean, you know Rick better than I do at this point. It was over. Once you get past it, she was so much fun. He just had a blast work.

Look at that computer. High tech shit right there, brother. Buddy. Just think that's the contract where you would, you know, see what the, uh, the message boards were saying about you. You jump on copy serve and see what Bob Ryder and one wrestling we're saying about you. I would just go down the hall and say, Bob, what are you saying about me?

Was he here by 99 or was that later? He may have been here by then. I think he was here. Bobby was with us for a long time. Here's what's crazy. You know, I was talking about Crash TV a minute ago and I wanted to follow up on that because I just watched an episode where Jeff Jarrett booked him against three legends.

And the last one was Jimmy Snooka. And he came off the top of the cage and did the Superfly splash on the Jeff. And it gave Jeff the worst injury of his entire career and it wasn't close. It was a terrible concussion. And he got it from Superfly giving him the splash off the cage. But what was interesting is it was like one, two, three. Oh my God, Jeff Juror lost cut to the backstage area. So we don't see him.

And that's not edited off the network because they didn't want you to see Jeff hurting that wasn't it it was just the Vince Russo we went straight from the in ring action okay that matches over let's show Kevin Nash walking down the hall taping up his wrist headed to the ring like that to me is the definition of crash TV we don't let anything breathe we're just on to the next thing on to the next thing on to the next thing there's no transitions there's no continuity it's just throw that shit up against a wall and see what sticks hey yeah no I can't disagree Anyway, this segment here, when I'm saying, hey, I probably never even saw this because I switched over to Raw.

I may have been the only one because this segment did a 6.4 rating. So I know there's a whole lot of people who consume wrestling and think the most important thing in wrestling is, well, you know, wrestling. But this segment we're watching right now, two middle-aged men talking about their differences, one in a suit and one in a black leather jacket and shit in a box, got a six. point four rating at a nondescript office building that's about eight million viewers people just so you i don't know seven to half eight million the point is we care about story first there's a lot of good fights in the sopranos i can't describe many of them uh but i remember the characters and i remember the stories but the violence was almost a backdrop and i think chris jericho

once described the walking dead as a drama with vampires as a backdrop and WWE is probably a drama with wrestling as a backdrop. What do you think of that? Do you agree? Yes, I do. It's, yes. Wrestling is no different than a drama or an action movie, except for it relies in physical narrative as opposed to the spoken word.

But the elements and the emotion in the story structure, the methodology of telling stories and developing characters is exactly the same it's modified the elements are the same exactly the same it's just a different as you said backdrop

who's the who's the fellow driving the truck there could you tell because that was not Kondike I don't believe no he's got too nice to smile is that it oh come on give me a look we're not going to get it.

I don't know who that was. Probably somebody working back in a warehouse. Let's talk a little bit about some of the questions that we got coming in here. Ask a bum says, will the hip-toss slash arm drag ever make a comeback? That's something I hadn't even noticed. I guess there's not a lot of hip-tosses and arm-drags.

Maybe not as many as they used to be, but maybe I haven't been paying much attention. Do you think there's an absence of those moves right now? I'm not paying close enough attention to be able to determine the lack of any particular moveset. But, you know, arm drag is a, it's a nice transition spot, yes, no, it's dynamic. And done well, when you get somebody that's really, really good at an arm drag, it's really believable and it's fairly dynamic.

You're taking somebody from one side of the ring and toss them to the other in a believable looking manner so I hope it makes it come back if indeed it went away something I hope makes it come back is hobby horses we're watching live here as Chavo Guerrero is at the bottom of the ramp on Nitro being interviewed by mean Jean and here's Pepe is mop handle horse listen I know that every now and again we have to prove to ourselves that we can get silly shit over. Jericho and Moxley tries to do this with a potted plant once before. Hobby horse though. Here he's wearing a neck brace and high five to Chavo for just going all in on this. A lot of people would have thrown the flag on this, but he's at least trying to have fun with it.

It was his idea. It's funny too. What do you think? Does wrestling need more of this? Because there is a narrative out there. And I think even Jim Ross would would echo this. Funny, don't draw money i don't know if i agree with that but jim ross does where do you land on funny and money i think it's a great element i think when you've got a two-hour show or some cases a three-hour show it can't all be the same type of emotion i think you've got to take people on a little bit of a entertainment roller coaster ride and i think there's plenty of room in a two-hour show worth the things that are tongue-in-cheek funny borderline hilarious or just ridiculous.

It's not to be, wrestling is not to be taking so seriously that you can't have some comedic elements in it. It works. You know, Dusty Rose. It's a buffet. It is.

You need to have some variety on your buffet. Not everybody wants prime rib. Hypothetically, do you think maybe Dusty had a little bit of the wacky tobacco? when he came up with Pepe? It wasn't Dusty. It was.

Eric, I'm trying to make a goddamn transition to Vea. Can you just play along or pretend like you're strong? I think he, I think Dusty was high as well. What did it look like? Show me what it looked like when Dusty was reaching. He was reaching.

All right. Listen, here's a tryout for next week, Eric. Oh, why didn't you reach you for what? I'm a old man, leave me alone. I'm older than your dad for credit out of that. You're picking on me for not being hip.

I don't know. Here we go. Here we go. We'll make up for it. I'm not going to wait today. I'm fucking, I'm ready. I'm ready. Oh, baby, baby, baby.

The thing is a buffet if you feel. Got to have a little bit of air, something for ever. really want, baby. How's that? I mean, what if, baby, we had Chavo come down on a horse? Well, Dusty,

we can't get a horse into the building, you know, Peter and the athletic commission and the building manager. Maybe it ain't got to be a live horse. It could be one of them that my little rascal is running around with a stick horse. A hobby horse. We could name his ass Pepe.

Maybe he came up with this. after a little VA. Maybe you're looking to be creative in 2025. Maybe you need a new hobby horse. 2025, a new year, a new you full of new possibilities. Well, this year reached new heights with VA, trusted by a million happy customers. And I mean it. Vea is the Swiss Army knife of wellness dedicated to harnessing the natural benefits of hemp to create high quality wellness products. By the way, VAA has something for you no matter what you're looking for. They've got products that range from zero to 100 milligrams of THC. Their world-renowned at VA for their award-winning THC and THC-free Gummies and Vapes.

They've got THCA flour. They've got soothing topicles. They've got calming drops. And the best part is VA legally ships to nearly all the states and the United States. It's going to show up to you in discrete packaging directly to your door, all with a worry-free guarantee and no medical card needed. So if you're 21 or over, be sure to check out the link to Vea's web site in our description. Be sure to use our code 83 weeks. You'll get 15% off. And if you're

new to Vaya, you even get a free gift of your choice. I've been a big believer in this. I have to admit, I was a novice, but Vaya hooked me up and we got to vet the product. And man, they sent me a care package. And what I love most about it is, it's labeled. If you're looking for something to make relations feel more relatable, they got that. If you need help focusing, you need help sleep, you need more energy. Maybe you're just in pain. They've got something for everybody with Baya. And by the way, the products range from zero milligrams to a hundred milligrams of THC. So they got you covered no matter where you are in your journey. Baya is the only lifestyle hemp brand. So if you're looking for better sleep to ease your

anxiety to enhance your mood or maybe to just get high and come up a hobby horse wrestling angles, they've got something for you. It's made right here in the USA. Great award winning customer service. Go right now. If you're 21 or over, check out the link to VA in our description and use the code 83 weeks and you get 15% off and if you're new to that you get a free gift of your choice after you purchase they're going to ask you where you heard about them please support our show and tell them we sent you this year enhance your every day with faya hey this is one of my favorite storylines that seemingly went nowhere eric you and i've not spent a ton of time talking about this the raven character

is not one you identified with you didn't like it you've talked about it a lot here on 83 weeks, but now we're getting some context because if we know anything here at 83 weeks is that context is king. And your backstory that you're putting forth for Raven is that he's not this grungy street kid. He's actually from a wealthy family. And he's just showing his ass on WCW programming. So we're showing him right now talking to his mom at his family mansion. And he's got, well, that is the sandman from ECW wearing a polo and glasses as his a rich friend or family member, I forget which, and he's going through the garage and he finds pictures of Rowdy, Rowdy Piper from back in the day. Chat me up about this, man. This is

crazy to see these guys playing a board game. And I understand that we're doing something different with WCW, but I like this layer of the onion, if you will, with Raven. What did you think? I wasn't involved in this, so I can't speak to any of the details. as far as who came up with it and who was behind it. But I love it. It's interesting. It was interesting and it still is looking at it. It's like you said,

it's a layer. It's just, he's not who I thought he was. What's he really like? It's far more interesting than what he was doing at the place. Really fun stuff here. We've got a few more comments we need to get to as we see the NWO arriving in the backstage area.

Everybody, of course, now is piling around together because we're, we've realized this whole black and white and red and black thing. Well, the band is back together. It's O.G. NWO. Polk Hogan, of course, is front and center for all this. Mr. Whisper is with us, and he says, Eric, I don't recall a few touched on wrestling tribalism before,

but do you have an opinion on it? Back in WCW, you obviously wanted others to mostly watch it over WWE, but now where do you stand? I don't stand anywhere. I'm in the middle. I'm just watching. I don't have a double. dog in the hunt. I have no stakes. There's nothing in it for me. I'm just like everybody else.

Oh, there's Chuck Zito. I was hoping you were going to say that. I don't want to cut you off. There's Mel. I can tell you an interesting story. The guy on the right, Mel, he went to prison because of this appearance. I believe he was a former member of a motorcycle club. Well, I mean, he's wearing Hell's Angels Illinois cut right here on the show. I'm not saying anything. I'm just pointing out a little bit of the backstory, evidently, because where was that? I think, where was this in Kentucky?

No, it was Cincinnati. No, you're in Knoxville, Tennessee here. Knoxville, Tennessee. Well, that individual, if I remember the story correctly, was not supposed to leave the state of Illinois and then made primetime television and the rest is history. If I have that right. I don't know any of the details. I only know what I remember reading a long time ago.

There's Chuck Zito, though. How does Chuck Zito get involved with WCW? Chuck is friends with Hulk at that time, still is. But Chuck was friends with everybody in Hollywood. He was very, very involved in Hollywood, a lot of different things. And just knew a lot of people. He's really out there and a lot of interesting friends and relationships in Hollywood. He's done a lot of stuff on entertainment.

If I have it right, that fellow's name is Mel Chancy. That would be Mel. And Mel right now lives in Florida. He did his time. He found the Lord. He completely turned his life around and is now very active. I don't know what is official. Yeah.

Sorry. He's a speaker. Mel Chancy 316 on Instagram is where he's a very spiritual guy and there's a lot of great things in Tampa area and very, you just see him on Facebook. He's an amazing guy. He's a hell of a backstory though. Let me tell you.

Man, how cool is that? What a small world. The idea that someone, I mean, that's, that's really our takeaway. You never know what sort of nugget you're going to get when you're

watching old wrestling with Eric Bishop. I'll just want to hear another nugget? Yeah. The other nugget is the phone call I got from the state of South Dakota because we were, had been doing Sturgis in South Dakota, had a very good relationship with law enforcement, state, local, everybody, everybody loved us. They were excited for us to come back every year and the next morning I got back from this event in my office and I get a phone call from the FBI.

based in Sioux Falls and said I remember what the conversation was in a friendly conversation but essentially he said guys bringing a lot of expensive equipment in here to the motorcycle rally every year and know how this is out here and you make friends with these guys and you automatically are not friends with these guys and you may want to consider that next time you make a decision to support one or the other huh he said I'm going to send you a little information. I'd like you take a look through it. Let's talk what you're done. It was a, it was an enlightening conversation. Let's put it. What do you remember one week removed from the, uh, finger poke of doom? I mean,

I know that once upon a time we had a little bit of fun with with two NWOs, NWO Hollywood and wolf pack, but once you've combined them and you've even been candid before that one of the reasons you like the idea of doing a wolf pack is everybody had the black and white NWO show what's cooler than that a black and red NWO shirt okay I get it but one week later what do you think the strategy was here honestly kind of I can't remember you know I think I don't know and I don't want to try to pull this one out of my ass just just to fill time I don't know that we had at this point a real clear path in terms of where we were going. I think this was more about, okay, the red and

black, the red and black and white thing, separating the group, we kind of run out of rope. Let's bring it back together and figure out where we really need to go. I think it was probably more of that than anything. We, we got a lot of questions coming in here. As we see Kevin Nash cutting a baby face promo in front of the crowd he went to college at. As a reminder, we're in Knox. Phil, and this is indeed the arena where the Tennessee volunteers play basketball. The building opened in 87, so I don't know that Big Daddy Cool was there and played in this particular building, but it's got to be cool for him to be back on his old college campus.

Like we've all heard the big band on campus before. We're really seeing it here. Kevin Nash back on his old campus. You know, as long as I've known, Kevin, I barely ever. remember him talking about playing ball in college just never came up it's like i know what happened but i've never heard him talking about i never knew if he really had a great time doing it i know injuries were an issue for him i think he played overseas for a while but he never never came up hey o tv productions is wanting to ask what you think about hogan being booed in l.a we addressed that

earlier in the episode appreciate you jumping in and hanging out with us hey o tv productions also wants But now, hey, Eric, Vince Rousseau just recently accused Triple H of being creatively bankrupt. Is he just bitter at this point? I can't imagine. I guess I can. Maybe we're doing it for clicks, but Triple H is not creatively bankrupt. I don't see that at all. Do you?

My God. I don't think you could make a more absurd statement given the content that we've been seeing out of WWE for the last year and a half. That's pretty crazy. It's bizarre. It's not just crazy. It's bizarre. Why would you say that?

Why would you say something so obviously stupid? Profoundly fucking stupid. If you want to just take a shot at somebody at least be created. Well, there you go. Coach T is with us here and he says 83 weeks live, LFG. No, thank you, man, for joining us and hanging out. And if you haven't already, hit that subscribe button.

Turn on your notifications. Eric and I go live all the time. Whenever there's breaking news or there's a major show, And every now and again, just like today, whenever we're just throwing together the podcast, this will be where you can enjoy all podcasts on Friday morning, or you could just be with us live here on Wednesday by hitting the subscribe button right now at 83 weeks.com. Be sure to turn on that notifications bell, so you don't miss the next time we're live.

It costs nothing. It's free. Come on now. Wow rads or Walrads is giving me a little love. We appreciate that. Thank you for jumping on and spending some time with us tonight as we're watching the old episode of Nitro together. Moxley strikes me as someone who believes his stuff in CZW

was better than anything he did in WWE. What do you guys think? That's interesting. You know, there is a contingent of people out there who believe that the WWE is like the evil empire. And I know Moxley reached the top of the mountain top there, and he was the world champ. But I think the WWE he didn't enjoy was the type that had Vince McMahon

verbiage. They wanted him to have his, his old pal Roman reign, say suffering succotash on TV. I don't think he hates the brand, but I do think maybe Mr. Moxley likes that underground, renegade spirit. I can see him liking independence and working in Japan and sort of that tape trader vibe. What say you?

I don't know the man. I've never, ever had a conversation. Don't have a bit of an instinct just to what makes him tick. I mean, if he has any creative control over the role that he's in right now, which I think he's pretty safe to assume he does, I think that's an indication of the type of attitude, the type of character, type of storytelling and action that he prefers, which would lend credibility to the comment about his role in CZW. It just seems like that's his preferred type of character presentation. If it wasn't, he wouldn't be doing it.

Ooh, that was something. Bill looks great here. We got to do another question here from Instagram or wrestling historian. This is actually more of a statement. He says, Eric should be praised more for giving pay raises. I don't know that anybody really ever talks about that too much. Like, you did help raise the pay scale incredibly. And I know that You know, these days, Tony Kahn has done that too. I don't know that, you know, you don't see many similarities between yourself and

Tony Kahn, but that is something you both deserve a little credit for, you know, helping get the boys paid correctly. I didn't do it out of the goodness on my heart. It was business. It was about taking care of your talent and doing the best you can to me. And be fair, I mean, look, they knew, especially, you know, 96, it was starting to get interesting, 97, everybody, I mean, the guys, especially the ones that have been around the block for a minute. And you only need like two or three of those because they educate the

locker room and a young guy's pretty quick. But man, there was a lot of guys that I was working with that had been groomed in the business and trained in the business that when you showed up at the arena, you do your own headcount to determine whether or not the promoter you're working for is really being fair and giving you the right percentage. If you have no, idea what the gate is you have no idea whether you're being traded fairly or not so a lot of that talent that was being paid off a percentage of the house or working independent more or less they were they were really good at counting heads and they brought a lot of that with them you're in wcw there 92 93 94 all of a sudden 95 things start changing a little bit by

96 you're filling arenas and they knew that we were making more money and that's when they start talking about they should be making more too. So it's just reality. It's what unions do in a very, you know, sophisticated way, I guess. But you have to try to manage that and anticipate it. If you wait and try to squeeze the talent while they're seeing you're making money hand over fist, it creates a pretty bad vibe. But it was just business. I don't want any credit for making people's lives better. The business made it better. And I did what I thought was the right thing to do at that time from a business perspective.

Eric, we, uh, we're watching live here together, uh, from 1999. And of course, I can't believe this is real. This is 26 years ago now. Um, and people still love this look and this set and just the look and feel of nitro overall. We haven't spent a ton of time talking about it, but who do you think deserves credit for like the nitro entrance set? And even like the rings, the idea that the ring skirts, you know, have lighting underneath and they can glow through and it'll say nitro and the flames on the mats around the ring. Like, is that David Crockett? Is that

somebody else? Who deserves some credit for that? A lot of people deserve credit for that. You know, the look of the show, the nitro brand look, which the set and the lighting and Everything else is a derivative of. That was really TBS, or excuse me, TNT. When we launched Nitro, we worked very closely with TNT and Brad Siegel. And Brad did a really good job supporting us. He brought in the white people, really, really talented people. We didn't do this in-house.

We went outside. And so it started with really TNT in terms of the overall look and design. And, of course, they worked directly with a number of people on the WCW side. of the equation. Some of it led by David Crockett, some of it led by Sharon Sedella, some of it led by Mike Weber. There were different people who were involved in different aspects of what Nitro ended up looking like. But from a production side, I would say David Crockett would be ultimately responsible for the execution of everything. But David was around and they would. Sometimes David went outside the company to bring in really good set

design people. So there are a lot of people involved. There's no one person that can take right of frame. We just saw Ray Mysterio jump over the top there and land on poor Kaz Hayashi. He's wearing an LWO shirt, he being Ray Mysterio, and Aunt Evans, who helps us a little bit here and there on YouTube, says Action Bronson, the rapper and massive wrestling fan, was on Ariel Hawani show this morning. He said that Scott Hall made him an official NWO member. Does Eric see this as legit? What say you, is Action Bronson, a member of the NWO now, Eric?

Sure, if he says so, I'm in. At this point, welcome aboard. Hell, everybody else was, you might as well be. I was going to say, if you'll let some of those people in, and you won't let Action Bronson. What's your favorite Action Bronson song, Eric? I'll have to get back to you. Here's something I know you'll like.

He had a food show. He's a heavy set rapper who's phenomenal, but he had a food show and you'll love the title of his food television show. Are you ready for this, Eric? Yeah. Fuck, that's delicious. Starring Action Bronson. Isn't that great?

I'm going to have to Google that. Sounds like something I'd want to watch about 11 o'clock at night when I can't get to sleep. And I love watching cookie shows and food shows. And some of them are getting pretty entertaining. So I'm going to check it out. So no contest here because Lex Lugar has attacked Cass Hayashi. He's telling Mysterio to take the LW shirt off. He refused.

Lugar attacks him. Mysterio is going to start a little bit of comeback. And look at the crowd. They're going nuts for it. You see the good news? DDP has been working with Lex Lugar. How cool is he? that i know i saw that i'm so excited for both of them you know good on lex and and page is just

as passionate as ever so if anybody could pull it off it's that combination of ddp's intensity and passion and lex's faith in himself and in the lord i'm i'm so excited to follow that ddp call me in like november i think maybe it was october and was telling oh it was October because I was on my way to Kevin Sullivan's funeral. And so as I'm on my way down there, we talked for an extended period of time. And I couldn't believe he wasn't coming. When he hung the phone up with me, he immediately booked a flight to Kevin Sullivan's funeral. And he was there an hour after me. He just dropped everything and came. But as we were talking that day before he hung up and booked the flight, we spent some time talking about Lex. And as he was talking,

and I just got chill bumps like driving down the road and even now just thinking about what he told me I'm such a big fan of Lex Lugar and if you haven't heard Lex Lugar recently I encourage you check out his conversations with us every month at ad-freeshows.com what a like he brings to the world

what a positive influence he has on the universe in 2025, right, Eric? He absolutely is one of my favorite people. Ghostface is with us here live. He says love the podcast Guys, quick question. What was your favorite match from a fan perspective and not an insider's perspective? What match have you enjoyed the most, Eric? I mean, tonight? No, just in general, your all-time fandom.

Kurt Hennig, Nick Bachman. A series, I'd have been two out of three. Absolutely one of my favorites. How about that? I didn't expect the answer tonight. That's, I mean, you knew immediately. So you were watching the AWA. back in the day. Yep. Kurt was a rookie, I believe.

Maybe it'd only been in the business for a year or two. So good. So, so, so good. Nick was amazing. To this day, every time I go back and watch something of his or somebody sends me something, I'm more impressed with how amazing he was. And how cool is that?

If you had to guess, because they did wrestle, you know, between 84 and 87, when would have been your time watching those matches if you had to guess? I know you don't remember the specific match, but can you think back to your I mean, I bet you was it was before I got there, obviously. I would say 85, 86. Wow. 85 would be my, I had to bet I'd bet 85.

How fun is that? So there you go. Now we know who Eric's favorite match was. Virgil Dawkins says when T&A came up with main event mafia, wasn't that literally the same concept of what Russo did with the top guys in WCW called Millionaires Club? What do you remember about main event mafia and how would you compare it to the Millionaires Club, Eric?

A main event mafia was before I got to TNA. So I, I mean, I remember it existed, but I can't tell you what. It wasn't a part of it and it was pretty much disbanded by the time I got there. And I hadn't paid any attention to it before I got there. So I really can't tell you much about it. I mean, it looked cool.

I saw a lot of the posters. There's a Booker T. Kevin Nash, Scott Steiner. Who else was in that crowd? You know, badass. I mean, the look and the talent, they were all amazing talent. But I don't know much about it.

We just saw the NWO spray painting, uh, Hey dog. So the former yo, yo, yo, yo, let me speak on this.

No longer a part of the NWO. He's kicked out here. And I saw them spray paint as the back of his head. And I bring this up because we saw in the replay from last week with the finger Pope of Doom, they did that to Goldberg too. And I don't remember exactly where I heard it. But for some reason, I remember hearing that the NWO liked to do that, like the guys like to spray paint where they knew you didn't want them to spray paint.

So if a guy came up and said, hey guys, tonight, would you mind not spray in the back of my head? Sure. People are getting sprayed, and they did that with shirts or whatever. Do you remember hearing that if a guy said, hey, if you don't mind, I just got these tides. Please don't spray these tides. They're definitely getting sprayed now just because that's wrestling. I never heard that specifically about, you know, getting tagged and where you got tagged and all that.

But it was, you know, to me, you don't have to be around the wrestling business for long to know that if you ask somebody not to do something, the chances are going to do it. If you just not ask, you'll generally, you know, everybody will do the right thing. If you go, hey, would you please not do something? Whatever. I mean, can you imagine being on a plane with the nasty boys before the plane takes off? You're flying over to Europe and stand up in front of everybody and say, hey, would you guys do to be your favor and not shave my eyebrows off while I fall asleep? That'd be tough. Thank you.

Thank you all very much. You guys are the best. and proceed to sit down, take a nap, and wake up in the labros. Is that happen? Isaac Ristin is with us here live, and I know you're a big fan of Isaac. He's a friend of the fam here. By the only one who heard Vince's voice on Raw's debut opening package saying, The Boyhood Dream!

Sorry if you've already touched on it. I got to say, I don't remember that. I can't say it's not there. I guess I just wasn't paying attention for it. But I think the implication here from Isaac is, do you think WWE will start to move on from Vince McMahon's name, image, and likeness? Will we see less of him in the packages? Will we hear less of his voice?

Will we try to bring out the old eraser? Or are they just going to move on and we just won't address it? I get the sense that's just going to move on. Yeah, I think so. I mean, I think he's as gone as he's going to be. If they've ever been motivated to make him as gone as possible, it would have happened six months or a year ago. and they've decided to get comfortable with whatever remnants of Vince McMahon's image

they've decided upon. I can't really recall what I see. It's a minor. I think it's going to be status quo. I don't think you'll see any changes. I don't think we'll start adding more Vince in, but I don't think they're going to go out of their way to eliminate what little there is left. Talk to me a little bit about, you know, kicking.

Conan out of the NWO. Conan was saying here on the program that he thought Kevin Nash was still his best friend. Everybody turns on him. Scott Hall even hits him with the taser. Fans are chanting for Goldberg and then they're chanting for Sting. It's pretty impressive too that the Sting chance are so loud because he hasn't been around for a bit at this point. But was the thinking here,

let's try to create some characters for the Cruiserweight division and we know Conan can be more useful there than he is here? Or what is the strategy to removing Conan? We need a leader for the LWO. More so. More so. Yeah, I mean, this would have been,

Kevin Sullivan would have been all over this one. I don't think I was too involved other than being aware and signing off on it. In terms of the progression of the story and the reasons behind it that really would have Kevin were, so I don't have anything I can call back to. But it seems logical. You know, the LWO was still very, very viable. Cruiser weights were an important part, at least my eyes, important part of Vitro. So I would have more than likely talked to Kevin about making sure that we maintained the LWO

and keep it strong as we possibly could. That'd be my guess. Lying to you if I said, I remember. We got the, what will become the big show. out here cutting a promo at this point he's still the giant um it's written here in the newsletter at the time it looks like he woke up four minutes earlier when did you know that paul white was leaving or interested leaving did you know about this point i mean we know by you know February he's going to be in wb i guess around valentine's day i say that because

that's just like five weeks away but he's still on tv here and i think a lot of people probably surprised you were using it he was honest with me he came to me right away and told me what he was thinking and what he was going to do and he told me right away when he had an offer there was no there was no gamesmanship on paul's part so there was no reason for me to do anything other than what i needed to do with paul to keep the show moving forward i i didn't punish people we joked about that the beginning of the show wrestling fans just love to sit back and conjure up all these you know all the drama and maybe

this is happening because this guy feels really this way about that. This is so much bullshit. And like I said with Paul, it's just he came right away, explained the situation, told me what he was hoping for. I told him I couldn't give it to him. Tell me he was going to go to the WWE.

I knew he was going to speak with him and when he came back he told me what Vince offered. I don't know. I like doing business like that. So I wasn't I wasn't in any hurry to do anything differently than I would have done. Obviously,

I wasn't building up and putting belts out of the things. I was going to punish him or take him off TV. He's doing business the right way. And that's the last time Maine Gene's ever going to hold the mic for him, I believe, because this is his last show with WCW. He just got his last promo with Mean Gene. And here in a little bit, he's going to wrestle Kevin Nash in Knoxville. You're going to start referring to him as the,

you're going to start referring to Kevin Nash as the NWO corporate giant. Of course we know the giant is about to become the big show. He debuted on a pay-per-view ironically enough, also in Tennessee. I find that interesting that

I think he's from South Carolina and his last WCW appearance is here in Knoxville and his first appearance for the WWF is on the other side of the state in Memphis at St. Valentine's Day Massacre. That was a cage match between Vince McMahon or Mr. McMahon rather and Stone Cold Steve Austin when all the sudden here comes the big show what a debut to be in the middle of that feud the two hottest acts

the WWF has you know their biggest heel Mr. McMan or their biggest baby face stone cold Steve Austin when you saw that they debuted him in such a big fashion were you surprised I don't think surprise probably more concerned than surprised. I mean, WWWE had been turning things around quite a bit. So I was, yeah, probably more back on my heels than surprised. Ian McCook says, much love from Northern Ireland guys. What do you think of the direction of ricochet in AEW looking like a believable

heel? Of course, I think the idea was we're going to debut him as a baby face. fans started to turn against it. Maybe they didn't like the way he was being booked. And they started throwing toilet paper with him at the end of the year in those New York shows at Hammerstein. He threw it back and leaned into it. And now it feels like he's become an organic heel. I kind of dig it.

You know, rather than it being the baby face that people were not digging, just lean into what the fans are doing. The fans will tell you. What say you, Eric? Yeah, I agree. I agree. It's kind of what we talked about earlier. with Hobbs and and oxley you know if it's not working go in another direction as quickly as

possible and you know credit where credit is due whoever deserves it whether it was tony or ricochet but leaning into it embracing it make it work for you is a classic you're going to get you're going to turn you know chicken shit of the chicken salad it's good for them nick says if he could go back would he take more control of all the bookings instead of leaving it up to others like Sullivan and Nash to name a few. That's an interesting question. Do you wish, do you ever think about with the benefit of hindsight that you would have been a little more involved with creative or not? Not at that time. I mean, I was learning on the job and I had certain talents. There were certain things,

you know, a lot of people argue with that. But, you know, if you look at the body of work that I was directly responsible for the creation of nitro and the kind of core values of what nitro was and how it was different than the wwe when we went head to head i have good instincts i have good creative instincts but there was also a lot about psychology there was a lot about the the technical side of wrestling that i wasn't good at and didn't have the experience in so my judgment wasn't as good as it meeting, or at least I needed to be surrounded by people with other perspectives so I could kind of check myself or other people who could check me when necessary. I wouldn't have been able to step into a more pronounced role than I did at that time.

Do I wish I would have had the knowledge, experience, and perspective then that I do now and would that have been different? That have been a lot different. But that's 2020 hindsight. you know 20 years of experience we're seeing booker t wrestle lennie lane here uh i want to point out that booker t enjoyed a really fun 1998 he became more of a singles wrestler that year but 1999 is where he's going to start to uh get some title shots i guess he got some title shots in late 99 or 98 rather but here in 99 he's going to become tv champ just a couple of months

beating scott stiner and we know you know he's eventually going to become the u.s. and the world champion, and it's a big opportunity for Booker T in 1999. Who were his biggest advocates behind the scenes? I don't know if there was any buddy that I would say was the biggest. I would say he had across the board support. There was nobody that wasn't a big supporter of Booker T. I mean, he had everybody's respect. I couldn't, I couldn't put anybody at the top of the list, though.

That would suggest that there were people who weren't as excited about that wasn't the case. It was pretty much across the board. Whenever you have a proven tag team, I mean, the Harlem heater, the most decorated tag team in WCW history. Booker T won more titles in WCW than anybody else.

And a lot of that was because of the success as tag champs. So in 99, we're going to see, you know, Booker T become the television champ and he's also going to become the tag champ three more times. By the year 2000 rolls around, we're going to see him become the world champ. Is there a best practice or what have you used in your experience when you have these tag teams that are successful, but now it's time to do something else because you had to do this with not just Harlem Heat, but with the Steiner's as well.

And I know you had seen, you know, young, great tag teams like the rockers. And at different times, you would see the free birds and the rock and rolls and even the Midnight Express. We saw Bobby Eaton and singles action. So you had seen it a lot. But the two biggest most perhaps WCW tag teams of all time for Scott Steiner and his brother Rick Steiner along with another pair of brothers, the Harlem Heat, and he had to break them up.

And I'm wondering, does that dynamic different because they're related? Are you more sensitive to that? Or is, what was your experience with breaking up those brother tag things? Treat them just like two totally individual individuals didn't really think about the brother aspect unless it was part, you know, of the story. If it had something to do with them splitting up, for example, or maybe coming back together down the road. But other than that, you just, they're two separate characters that you want to get the most out of each one of them. They have different things to offer individually than they do as a team and you have to think about them. we just saw a clip of you guys breaking the ring on thunder with the big show

this is the worst thing i've this is bad this is like really bad what you mean scott hall selling the ring yeah the selling part was really bad yeah i mean the idea of breaking down the ring yeah and nothing i'm real proud of there but the selling kind of exacerbated it uh i like the idea of we suplex the big guy in the ring and he's so big and we're so strong that we broke the damn ring and you guys did that before anybody else so i do want to give you some credit for that i got to give you some credit for this too we're seeing like a little miniature movie here and what looks like the original set and i'm sure it's not but it's positioned and shot in a way

where we're trying to make it look like the original nw o vignettes so they're black and white and they've got the big screens around them and we see a seated Kevin Nash and Hollywood Hogan and Hollywood Hogan here in full wolf pack stuff I mean he's even got the wolf pack t-shirt on and they're talking about what an incredible match it was it was the toughest match of either of their careers or of course we're showing replays of the finger polka doom I don't think this ever really gets talked about when people cover the finger polka dune they almost talk about January 4th like it's in a vacuum but this adds a little more context to it i think eric don't you it does and again the the

dirt sheet narrative was oh it's the worst thing in the history there's the beginning of the end that's the accepted narrative about the finger polka doom but if you go back and look at the ratings that followed the finger poking to them they were very very strong so the the internet narrative about it and the reality of it at the time are two different things. I wanted to ask you, there's a great comment here that I think is interesting from Jay, who's with us live here on YouTube. And they're making a comparison to football, Eric. And I know you've admitted you're not necessarily the biggest football team or football fan,

but you know who the biggest team is. Like if you had to guess just revenues and fan base and all that, just using your business brain, who do you think the biggest team in the NFL is? Money wise? I don't know. It's probably it's going to be a New York team, right? It's the Dallas Cowboys. And it's been the Dallas Cowboys forever.

They're positioned as America's team. And, you know, there's lots of licensing agreements that the NFL has that Jerry Jones has decided that the Dallas Cowboys are not going to participate it. And they're just going to do their own thing. And as a result, they've become. come the most profitable franchise by a lot and jay who's with us here live says tony con is the jerry jones of wrestling he's got his fingers in too much stuff he's got to hire some real writers for storylines etc tony needs to take a back seat now bring that up to you because i am friends with a lot

of hardcore cowboys fans our producer stupid ass dave silver he is among them and almost all of them will sell will tell you the biggest problem with the cowboys is jerry jones they don't have problems with personnel or players or stadiums and when they have coaching problems it's because the owner Jerry Jones picked the wrong coach or he didn't allow that coach to pick his own groceries and he was a little too involved in being the general manager and even Jerry Jones you know when he was asked about this recently he says hey I have no intent to retire I bought this to do until I couldn't do anymore and that's what i intend to do and i'm going to do it with my family and i found that

interesting uh what do you think of this comparison that tony con is the jerry jones of wrestling i'd never heard that before do you watch the new series uh landman i do yes he made a cameo in there he made a cameo and he talked about this very thing with billy bob thornton or at least part of it He made it clear in that cameo that he bought this team because it was his dream to run it with his family. And it's a little bit like, it's a vanity project. It's a big mucker father. And it's profitable. So there's the difference between Jerry and Tony.

But the over-involvement, absolutely. It's a hobby for Tony. That's what this is. It is a vanity project slash hobby. And it's reaching all of Tony's personal goals. Apparently, he's not under any financial pressure and he doesn't want to give up any control. So he's doing exactly what he wants to do.

And if that's the only parameter, that's the only goal, is that Tony's having fun and he can afford to have that kind of of fun. It is what it is. I've kind of given up. You know, I don't really have much hope anymore and just looking at it for what it is. It's one person's dream job that he was able to fund and create. That's what it is. It won't be anything different than that ever. I don't think like Jerry Jones that he'll turn it into one of the most successful franchises in the industry. That's never going to happen. Well, nobody's saying that about the Cowboys right now. I mean, even Troy Aikman was on TV this past week when people were saying,

oh, this is one of the most coveted jobs because the Cowboys just let go of their coach or Mike McCarthy's not going to be back. So the Cowboys are looking for a new coach. And Eric, the speculation is, it's not even a speculation. Dion Sanders says he called him. And there's lots of people in the NFL world who are saying, yeah, because no real coach wants to go work for Jerry Jones. So you've got to go to these sideshows like Dionne Sanders. I'm not saying he is, but that is the narrative out there that he's not a serious NFL head coach yet, Dion Sanders, that is. So, yeah, even Troy Aikman's on TV saying, this is not a coveted job anymore.

And he's, you know, all the fame, legendary Super Bowl winning quarterback with the Cowboys, saying it a loud and clear voice, uh, not anymore. It, it's interesting to think about what's next for the Cowboys, but also to hear someone make that comparison from Tony Conn because that never even crossed my mind. Yeah, no, it's, you know, I've heard the criticism of Jerry Jones for years now that he doesn't let his coach his coach and he's too involved in the game and he's trying to call plays from the, from the suite and things like that. So that narrative about Jerry Jones is out there forever and everybody knows that Tony's

the head booker, the president's CEO, head of creative, head of wrestling operate, he's got about six titles. And as long as that's the case, you're probably going to have the same problem with AEW that you have with finding a winning season with Dallas Cowboys. But if you're, look, if you're Dion Sanders, do you take that job going in knowing you don't really have any NFL experience? It takes time. It's a different situation than Colorado State or wherever he's coaching. Do you go into that job for two or three years knowing it's not the best job in the world, but you're going to make a name for yourself in the NFL, get that experience. I don't know.

I think Dion might be exposed there. I'd keep having fun in college and I wait too. I'd let out a little while. Hey, we're watching a pretty fun thing when you think about it with the benefit of hindsight. Three Georgia boys, Diamond Dallas page coming to the ring, coming through the crowd and waiting for him in the ring, Scott Steiner and Buff Bagwell. I think you and I both really enjoyed their act together. We saw Buff paired with Lugar, and we saw Buff paired with Scotty Riggs,

and we saw Buff paired with Two Cold Scorpio, we saw Buff paired with Scott Steiner. And the Scott Steiner pairing with Buff, I think, is my favorite. And I don't even know why exactly. What's say you? I think so, because it was kind of like, there's a contrasting characters. I mean, Buff was put together, obviously.

but there was what was the right man the the smart ass kind of cocky little cute boy and scott sider was a killer and that contrast made them interesting little did we know oh and little nature is the ref man this is this is what a career this guy's have right still doing this thing today on wbw programming it's wild look at this you know what else is wild is this crowd it's a good looking crowd i mean you're not not only is it you know look good on camera but they're very, very into what we do. And what's interesting, too, Eric, is you do have a majority men there. But man, you got a lot of ladies in the crowd.

You got a lot of kids in the crowd. I think that's interesting to take a look at just, you know, the makeup of the crowds because, you know, they've changed through the years for sure. It tells you everything, right? If it's a testicle festival, kind of like ECW was, it's a niche product. AEW has a little Nitchiness to it in that regard WCW certainly had it

a long time until 97, 98, and it became more family, more women, better-looking women, usually means more guys, more guys, more women, it was kind of like a fun spiral. It was a life spiral instead of a death spiral. But you're right, man,

the composition of your career, proud tells you just about everything you need to know it says a lot to your advertisers too sends out a lot to your advertisers beyond just what they get out of the gillson guide we're watching uh scott steiner here wrestle diamond dallas page they're not yet wrestling each other for the world title but that's what the world title picture is going to look like in the coming years here in wcd this is going to be a paper view main event before you know it but recently we've heard a lot from Scott Steiner he did a few interviews talking about his son

who's been at Jacksonville State University playing football and he has expressed interest his son has and getting in the family business of course he knows what his dad did and what his uncle did and now he sees what his cousin Brian breaker is doing and he's expressed interest in doing stuff with WWE Scott Steiner has even come out and said that he's buried the hatchet with Triple H. Once for a time, they didn't get along that great, but they've agreed to let bygones be bygones, and he's excited that his son is going to follow in his footsteps. It certainly looks like he's going to be a part of the WW ID program and then later developmental. We've seen what Ron Breaker has been doing. How pumped are you now to see that,

well, there's Rick Steiner's son. Oh, what do you know? That's pretty cool, isn't that? Your son. I love that. That lineage is awesome. And the talent there, of course, I don't know what's got some looks like, but Bob Raker, man, is there anybody in his peer group, his age group that are as

exciting as he is that have that much potential if there are, I'm not sure who it is right now. Man, how wild is it to think about the next generation of the Steiner brothers? Perhaps we're going to see that. I can't wait. But one of the things I'm excited that I'm not

going to be seeing in 2025. For me overpaying anymore, thanks to Rocket Money. The start of a new year is the perfect time to get organized, set goals, and prioritize what matters most. For me, a top priority is my financial wellness, and that feels more important than ever right now in America. But thanks to Rocket Money, my goals feel achievable. They show me all of my subscriptions right in one place, and they can easily help me cancel the ones that I forgot about that I've been paying for. Rocket Money also pulls together all of my spending across all of my different accounts so I can clearly track my spending habits and see where I can cut back. Rocket Money is a personal finance app that will help you find and cancel your unwanted

subscriptions, monitor your spending, and even lower your bills so you can grow your savings. You get to see it all on this dashboard and then Rocket Money will take care of the rest. Do you find something you don't want anymore? You hit the button, they take it from there. They've even got a new Goals feature, which will automatically start saving money for you. You can even get alerts if your bills increase in price or if there's unusual spending activity, even if you're getting close to going over your budget.

No matter what your goals are, rocket money can help and they can even try to help you renegotiate your bills. Yeah, they can negotiate to lower your bills for you. It's a new thing they started doing last year. And now they automatically scan your bills to just look for those opportunities to save. And then they do the hard work. they negotiate on your behalf. They deal with customer service.

You don't do anything. Rocket money already has over 5 million users. They've saved those folks over half a billion dollars in canceled subscriptions. And on average, members save up to $740 a year when they use all the apps premium features. So go cancel your unwanted subscriptions and reach your financial goals faster with Rocket Money. All you got to do is go to RocketMoney.com slash 83 weeks today. that's rocket money.com slash 83 weeks one more time rocket money.com slash 83 weeks and we're

talking over a pretty good match here with dp and uh scott's thiner they're giving them some time today they're tearing it up the first part i would say the first 10 minutes of this match eight minutes of this match were intense it just pounded the piss out of each other pretty fun to watch we got to do a few more questions here oh shout out to luke who's uh joined us and throwing in for the calls. Appreciate you checking us out. Too sweet, my man. Lewis Martinez says,

I heard Cortnette say Meltzer must be insane if he thinks Tony would have done a better job running WCW than you did because of all the egos you had to deal with. How long would Tony have lasted? Man, what a weird question that is. But I do think it's interesting that Cornett's giving you your flowers saying, hey man, if Tony thinks it's tough now,

go deal with Hogan and Randy Savage and Roddy Piper and Rick Claire and Kevin Nash. and and and when you keep going like that it was a pretty unenviable task at times was it not it was horrible yeah and i don't think tony would have lasted it's funny and i don't think cornet was giving me any flowers i just think it's such an obvious sad situation in terms of leadership tony would be so far over his head it's not even he's over his head right now Chris Britton says, as the one making the final call and a lot of egos in the room, what was the biggest dispute between the boys that you had to deal with in WCW?

Do you remember the biggest issue? Like, was there one that just got to a point where you just dreaded waking up and dealing with it or when you'd come home, it was like, finally, I don't have to anymore. It was just exhausting, a few personalities in particular, or one issue in particular. It was a point in time, and I can't tell you exactly when it was. was but the relationship first of all it was never an issue it was always a communication surrounding an issue communication could sometimes really be shitty between top talent and when the communication would start breaking down things would start getting personal

once things got personal it wasn't really business anymore that's when it got ugly and there was I think it was 98 summer 98 on our way to stir And I think we might have been in Idaho Falls on our way because we kind of road tripped and we put on events along the way, one or two. And I think it was in Idaho Falls. And the relationship between Hulk and Kevin and Scott had gotten so bad and it was so tense that I found myself standing in the middle of those three guys. Knowing the way things are going, or at least thinking, the way things were going that I was going to get in the middle of something that was going to get hurt in, that it was going to get ugly.

It got really close, like, really close. But cooler has prevailed. That was like the only time that I remember things escalating to the point where I was pretty sure it was going to get ugly. physical beyond ugly because there were some serious issues at that particular time and then as it almost always did it worked itself out eventually but it was bad you know it is interesting to think about how this crop of guys we're watching right now on nitro in 1999 would have dealt with Tony con what do you think a whole Cogan Tony con or Kevin Nash Tony con exchange looks like like wouldn't that be interesting to even

think about like you dealing with today's talent could be interesting but Tony dealing with talent from back then I think would also be an interesting dynamic not for long it would be sad I mean look now I don't want to talk about Tony Tony's doing what Tony wants to do and he can afford to do so good luck Tony have fun well I didn't mean in the confrontational way I'm just being creatively like knowing how those how it seems like Tony con really puts you know in ring work and matches above all else at times and I don't know man I think that's that's a narrative that I know is floating you know like we're the best wrestle I've seen some of the most embarrassing garbage called professional wrestling

on network, television cable network that I've ever seen out of the year. I think the we're the best, yes, are there some talents that are physically beyond gifted? Yep. They don't draw a dime. They're not drawing a dime.

They're losing audience every week. They're not the stars of people and the quality of the wrestling is not as great as the narrative about it. Well, I guess what I was talking about was specifically just the focus on matches like do you think in a in a tony con led wcd we would have seen um wait a minute there's a new uh report out let me click on this uh i'm just fascinated to to think about would we have seen ray mysterios and the cruiser way

prioritized more would we have seen chris pinois in main events in wcd before the very end when Eddie Guerrero have made an evented a paper review or had a shot at the world title it does make me wonder what he have advanced the style of wrestling because we know that he was a Dave Meltzer disciple

I don't know that he has anymore I think he was a tape trader I know he was on message boards so you know what we grew up with Eric was reports from people who had seen these great matches this is pre-internet being where it is now or if you wanted to see that footage you had to know someone who had a of it, which meant they live there and they recorded it on TV and then they shipped it all the

way here. That's what we had to go through to see some of these great all Japan matches or new Japan or even the spectacles for FMW and so forth. So reading about it in the newsletter, it was written about in a way where, hey, man, these characters and these matches feel really important and better than what we have and larger than life. And it almost becomes like the, uh, the great band that you heard before they were famous. Like my grandfather saw Elvis Presley play before he was famous Elvis Presley.

So he would tell everybody that. You know, he was in on the Elvis thing before the masses knew. So that's the way wrestling was. And I don't think it necessarily is that way anymore. But I could almost get it. Like, you know, I think in different parts of the world, people look up to American pop culture. And, you know, you can see some of these international tours where there are songs. being saying in English where that is not their native tongue so it's just

interesting to think about would he have advanced what he have tried to placate that back then and played to the news the newsletters and Dave Meltzers and the Wade Kellers of the world back then what effect that would have had on wrestling if any I don't even know how to comment on that all right we'll let you talk for a little bit Eric I've done a lot of talking today so I'm No, I mean, I'm trying, but it's a hypothetical that it's, I can't remember my, look, Tony is a goof. Tony is collecting little wrestling toys and living his 14-year-old Tony Khan, I'm an ECW fan wrestling fantasy, to try to, you know, somehow project that based on his wrestling mentality currently,

that he would somehow have the foresight because it reads Dave Belser's Durchy to look for some international talent and bring them to life. It's a hypothetical that is so far removed from any sense of reality that I can't react to it. I just, I wish I could. I wish I could help fill time and add some color to something that's hard to wrap my head around as that. But I'm not that good. I wish I was. I'm sorry.

That's what we're seeing here as we see you working on putting the ring up. I was good at that. Conduct Biel taught me well. just looking for any context about filming that day just trying to fill the space here is we got 42 minutes a nice row left what was that like it was fun for me it was a different character for me anytime if you like to perform if performing is just inherently fun for you and you gravitate towards it the opportunity to do anything that's different than what you normally do is kind of fun it's like

like it's like a paid vacation in a way you get to react to different things and different people and i never thought i'd be performing a skid or a scene with klondike bill but he actually came out of his shell and got into it i didn't know he had it in him you know what klondike bill obviously has become a legendary character on tony shivani's podcast do you have any fun klondike bill stories you can share with us just the one we're watching i didn't you know clondike was one of guys you see you i'd see him every week he was there but he was quiet and i had my own shit to do and i wasn't involved in any of the things that kondike bill was involved in as far as getting to bring up and you know we didn't sit down and you know shared dinner or lunch and

catering or anything like that so this is the first time that i really had any interaction with him and they said a minute ago i was kind of surprised that he was able to come out of his shell as much as he did of course he you know he was a performer or former wrestler and had been a used to being in the ring and being in front of people. But I didn't really know that at the time. I didn't know much about contact. Is this the first time you've ever worked on putting a ring together? Or did you tell?

Like this is not a work. Nobody said he. This is pretty much grab those ropes and bring them into the ring. Of course, I exaggerated it, having fun with it. But I had never, I had no idea how a ring went together. I wasn't one of those guys like Shane McMahon was or. I'm sure many others who, you know, you want to break into business, kid, learn how to put up the ring.

Now, I wasn't one of those guys. I loved it to do business. Do you know who made the rings? Like, this is not a high spot ring. That wasn't a thing back then. Is Klondikeville doing that or do you guys have a specific contract or any chance you remember that? I don't remember who it was,

but I remember we had one person that was kind of our go-to person, but I honestly couldn't tell you. I think if I had to guess, it landed somewhere between Jody Hamilton and Klondike. When you're seeing the ring put together like this, were there any old timers who were hesitant or resistant? I know that a lot of non-fans believe that the wrestling ring is more like a trampoline. And Eric, you and I know that is not the case.

But you are really showing exactly how a wrestling ring is made here. On the one hand, I would think, hey, that's a good thing. We're showing people that there really is just exposed two by fours. underneath with just this thin little padding over the top and then the canvas stretched over that. I think that adds to the realism of it, but I'm wondering whether any old timers who thought, man, they can't see that. We're showing them too much. I didn't hear that. Nobody would have said something like that to me. It doesn't mean they didn't say it behind my back or to each other. But I didn't get any feedback like that. But I'm like you,

you know, especially after having seen it like this, there's nothing that we're exposing that makes that ring look any less dangerous or any more comfortable. That padding isn't much of a pad. So, no, I don't recall that, and it certainly wasn't something across my mind. We, uh, we're doing one more, uh, sold out after sold out 99. That'll be sold out 2000 and it will die a merciful deaths. of course we had sold out 97 which was the very first one 98 which is where we had brett

versus flare and this is the go home nitro for sold out 99 at the charleston civic center in charleston west virginia we'd see chris benoit wrestle mike enos in a 10-and-a-half-minute match yes mike enos on pay-per-view in 1999 then we would see norman smiley wrestle chavo guerrero and they got 15 minutes on pay-per-view then it's fit finley and Van Hammer. I'm sure everyone was thrilled to spend $30 to watch a paper review match with Van Hammer. It was a talk of the town.

Yeah. So a main event anywhere in the world, Eric. Bam Bam Bigelow beat Wrath. And then Lex Lugar would beat Conan. Chris Jericho would beat Perry Saturn and a loser wears a dress match. Everyone expected Jericho to lose that because we all know he was leaving. but swerve bro even before he's here parry saturn is going to be supporting that dress Billy kidman is going to win a fatal four-way match for the wcdw cruiserweight championship

a lot of talent in there with billy you got ray junior you got hoovintude you got psychosis and then there's a tag match i kind of forgot this was even a thing rick and david flair with arn anderson in their corner picking up a win over kurt and Mary Wyndham and then in the main event and this is not a Vince Russo match it's Goldberg and Scott Hall in a stun gun ladder match of course we know Goldberg's reign came at the hands of a stun gun that's become a new Scott Hall thing you see him stunning him here when they did the finger poke of doom the week before and even earlier the night we saw him being Scott Hall so I'm Taze Conan what do you think of the the taser gimmick

overall, Eric? Got a lot of negative reaction. I don't think it was dynamic enough. I mean, everybody knows, you know, Taser, cattle prod. Yeah, they use them to move cattle around and get about nine batteries in them or whatever it is. But it's just not visual enough. It's a cheap way out.

It didn't work very well for us to balance with you. We're finally back to the show after packaging. and you putting together the ring and we are going to see some more wrestling one of the matches we're going to see is Rick Flair and Kerr Henning but first we're going to see Scott Hall and Bam Bam Bigelow I think once upon a time those guys had an issue with each other dating back to their WWF days maybe it was click related I know that it all came to ahead once upon a time with Scott Hall going to visit some friends for ECW you remember having any behavioral issues or talent issues with Bam Bam Bigelow.

What was your Bigelow experience like, Eric? It was short, right? I mean, he came in. I think Bam Bam had a, I don't want to see he had a chip on his shoulder, but I think his expectations were a little out of line. I think he, in his mind, and this is probably true with a lot of talent, right? And it's not necessarily a bad thing, but I think Bam Bam came in thinking his stock significantly higher than I did, and the audience did.

I think he adjusted. I think he came in expecting to be kind of at the level that he may have been at one point in WWB, and it just wasn't there for him. And it was a crowded roster. It would be pretty hard to come into WCW at that point in time and find yourself at the top of the roster. It just wasn't going to happen. So I don't think my impression was him that he,

he came in with a little bit of a chip on his shoulder. Things didn't necessarily go great for him right off the bat. And his attitude, I want to say it was a bad attitude. It's not like they never had an issue with him. But you could tell when a guy's not happy, it's pretty obvious. Well, I wanted to say, you know, I don't know, I mean, he came in almost immediately calling out, I think he debuted in November of 98. And I thought in his debut interview, he was calling out Goldberg.

And I know that when. Goldberg lost the title at Starcade, not only was Scott Hall there with a taser, but Bam Bam Bigelow was there too. So I could see, hey, if I'm the former ECW world champion, Bam Bam Bigelow coming in fresh off of that and I'm immediately in a program with Goldberg, I realize Goldberg's the guy who beats everybody in two minutes and it's part of a streak, but I would think, man, that's a pretty good spot to be in. You're debuted and working with one of the top guys on the world champ, right?

One would think. One would think. But again, I didn't know. I never got to know Bam Bam real well. I never, I can't honestly say that I knew for sure that he expected to be used in a more significant role than he was. But that was just the impression that I had. Like I said, he had a chip on his shoulder. It wasn't the friendliest guy.

He probably had good relationship with a lot of the other talent. But I just never, I never clicked with him. He said it wasn't adversarial, but I never got a good vibe from him. it's a shame that we never saw more of Bigelow because I know he's going to be here with WCW through the end and when WCW goes out of business he opts not to take the buyout and just keeps getting those checks I think his contract isn't up until like June of 2002 so that's around the same time that Jeff is starting T&A but he just does some indies and unfortunately he's another one of those sad stories

who passed away way way too soon man how sad is it i just realized both scott hall and scott bigelow neither one with us anymore it sucks that's so hard to believe with scott you know when he sit back and i'm watch him like this and like i said it just seems like yesterday it's still hard to believe he's not here listen uh luke is with us here live he wants to know eric thank you for being someone i've looked up to my whole life any plans coming to australia again anything on the books hurt uh not for australia i think i'm going to be in scotland in the summer but i haven't had any content nobody's reaching out from australia uh wanted me to come over

and that's just fine i think i'm kind of you know i'm over the long trips and overseas tours kind of a it's kind of tough nowadays and i've had a great time in australia i've been there several times and enjoyed every minute of it. But I'm pretty satisfied just to stay in my own country. We've got a fun night here of Nitro that we're watching, but we're head to head, of course, with Monday Night Raw, there in Houston, Texas at the Compact Center. And that night, we would see Owen Hart team up with Jeff Jarrett

to take on the New Age Outlaws and a tag title match. We'd see Luna Vashon, Russell Gilberg. We'd see Xbox beat Al Snow to retain the WWF European title. We'd also see Kane beat Mankind in a WWF championship match, but it's by DQ, so the belt doesn't change hands. We'd see Triple H beat Edge in under three minutes. And then in our main event, we would see China win the corporate rumble by last eliminating Vince McMahon after McMahon was distracted by Steve Boston at ringside.

In order of entry, we saw Ken Shamrock, the big boss man, test, Xbox, Road Dog, Kane, Triple H, Vince McMahon, and China, who was unsanctioned, but China wins. And so therefore, she's got the 30th most lucrative spot in the Royal Rumble match. Shane McMahon was doing commentary here. and this is also the same episode of Rawl where The Undertaker would sacrifice Dennis Knight and transform him into Midian creatively, you know, you've been asked and I mean, we've just beat you up for years here about blood runs cold and how terrible it was and how we didn't really like it, but it was probably just poor timing if it had come out right

at the same time that Mortal Kombat was getting hot when WCW was a little more silly, things like the dungeon or doom if that would have come around and say 94 or 95 maybe it could have hit but by 96 it just felt out of place well here we are now in 99 and on the other channel eric i just told you that the undertaker sacrificed someone why don't you think that bit of creative gets beat up the same way blood's run blood runs cold does i know that everybody loves the undertaker and he's a top guy and i get it but sacrificing dudes come on Part of it is, I think, because people just have so much respect for The Undertaker, that it's hard to criticize things that even if they should have been criticized at the time, part of it was the narrative. WWE was getting hot at this point.

It's a little more difficult to be critical of a brand that's getting hot. Mistakes and bad ideas don't look as bad. You're starting to grow and you're building your audience. I think that's part of it. And the other part of it is just, you know, you have, look, there were certain dirty writers at the time who just were anti-WCW and looking for everything they could to rip apart. And because so much of the narrative was about, you know, Bishop has Ted Turner's checkbook and he's just spending money ridiculously and overspending here and spending too much on this guy

and that guy and spend half a billion dollars he paid to his kiss, whatever the, you know, half a million or whatever it ended up being. None of which is true, but there was so much of that narrative in dirt sheets and early digital that it just kind of becomes something, and a story that's easy to tell for people that don't know any better. It wasn't necessarily true, but because we spent a fair, we spent a lot more money on the blood runs cold gimmick than probably had ever been spent before on creating a new character or set of characters and it was a big risk at that time and it didn't work so it's easy to make

fun of or it's easy to point out as a mistake but you know shit happens some stuff works you know the only people that don't the only people can say they've never screwed up anything in the creative side of the business is people that's never been in the creative side of the business and actually gotten paid for being a creative person you're going to the this man, how good you are, you're going to come up with a bad ideal every once in a while. WWE has, and certainly we did. No question about it. Bill Goldberg looks a little bit like a jacked of Billy Kidman.

That's what I thought it was. I know he's trying to be too cool for school, but I think he's so identifiable with the bald head. I don't think I'd ever have him wear a baseball cap. No, it's no, or even leading in in that position. Yeah, I guess we all knew how powerful he was and how biggest character was. But that just honestly, as I'm talking to you, um, I thought of the corner of my eye, I thought that was Billy Kiddman for a second.

Yeah. It wasn't playing to his strengths. Hey, I wanted to ask you, uh, if you saw this. This is interesting from, uh, Frank Rosano. Actually, no, before we do Frank's question. We just recapped what happened on Raw. heads up with you guys in China won the main event the corporate rumble she's going to win number 30 we've talked before about how you sort of created world war three is your way of having

your own sort of battle royal rumble style and world war three just never clicked the way the royal rumble does for a variety of reasons the anticipation the countdown the anticipation there you go uh but china yeah i find it interesting that if she's getting the mega push here in the WWF in 1999. She's going to be in the men's rumble coming at 30. Later in the year in October, we know she's going to beat Jeff Jarrett on pay-per-view and become the intercontinental champion.

So they're starting to push her in that direction. I know you don't have China, but I wanted to ask if you did, at the time, would you have been able to present her with standards and practices and the way that evolved in the same manner? I mean, I know you had one-offs with Ms. Jackie,

in Disco Inferno. I know there was a one-off with Medusa and like Evan courageous or some cruise away. I know Oklahoma, but that was all sort of tongue and cheek and really positioned as a one-off. China, do you think if you really got behind her and had the machine behind her, would Turner corporate have been okay with that, meaning her doing battle with gods? I think so because she was a different type of character. You know, you could put China in the ring with a lot of guys and it wasn't obvious that she may have been at a disadvantage, or perhaps she wasn't at a disadvantage physically.

She was a very, very unique individual. There were very few women that looked the way she looked and wrestled the way she wrestled. She wasn't just jacked up. She was big. She was powerful looking, and she could work. So you would have been able to sit down probably with standard practices or anybody else that might have an issue with it and just lay it out. as, you know, this is just a woman that she can go.

She can compete. And it wasn't gratuitous the way it was with so many of the other women that we used, WCWUs, and even WWE had used in the past. She was in a category unto herself. She was unique in that respect. Just the best way to say it, she was justifiable in the ring. We see Rick Flair coming to the ring here now to take on, Kurt Henning, we're going to talk about the match in just a minute, but Dave Belzer would say

this was the best match on this night on either show, on either Raw or on Nitro. Are you a little surprised that when her WWF run was over? I'm talking, of course, about China. She has her last match against Lita. It's out of pay-per-view, and I think it's May of 2001. We don't see her again for like 10 years, and she pops up in 2011 and has one match on pay-per-view with the Jarrett's for T&A, and that's it. I know she had some matches in Japan for New Japan and some other independent

promotions in Japan, but I'm kind of surprised with as much name recognition and brand recognition. I know Vince owns China, but I'm kind of surprised that we never saw or do anything else. And I know that timing is everything. It's not like there was a bunch of other American promotions, but. It just feels like if, man, her split came with the, the WWF and say 96, boy, she would have been all over WCW programming, I bet, don't you? Possibly.

She would have had a lot of support now when Kevin Nash and Scott Hall, Sean Waltman, she would, she would have had a fan base there and people that would have been willing to speak up for her and help get her a shot. But did, I mean, look, she left WWE. she was having quite a few personal problems afterwards wasn't she do you think that might have been part of why we didn't see her anywhere else no no no she didn't leave wdb she was having personal problems say that again i'm confused china did not leave wb because she had personal problem no it's not what i said or that's it's not what i meant to say if i

did what i meant to say was when she did leave wwee subsequent to leaving is when she started to have personal problems. If I recall correctly, I may not. No, no, that's correct. Yes. And my question then was, do you think that was the cause as in terms of why we didn't see her anywhere else?

Well, there was nowhere else to go. I mean, the T&A wasn't doing anything. I mean, respectfully, they were paying guys, you know,

$100 to $500 a week to wrestle. So, you know, this is a person who made hundreds of thousands of dollars in wrestling and sold millions of copies of Playboy. it's just unlikely to me to think that they would have been able to do anything. And yes, by the time they got her in 2011, she was probably in the throes of addiction. And I think that was all borne out of there wasn't another opportunity.

Like there wasn't another place for her to go to. And I can't help but wonder, you know, had that split happened sooner, had her star risen a little sooner and she had an opportunity to, hey, I'm going to go work for ECW for a bit and see what Paul Heyman does with my character. I'm going to come to WCW because it's not like you guys had an issue coming up with a different name. Hell, you had your own jacked up female and you named her Asia with the benefit of hindsight. Do you regret doing that? Does that feel a little lame?

Or did you like that at the time? I was ambivalent about it. It didn't strike me as something that I thought had legs and we could get excited about. But it was filler entertainment. It wasn't bad. But wasn't great either. Now, I'm not embarrassed about. Her being part of the NWO, though, China as a member of the NWO,

that would have been cool. I could have been very cool. Could have had some fun with her and Scott Steiner. Also cool to seeing Rick player wrestle Mr. Perfect. This is one of the last times you're going to see these guys looking up. And else or even say, write this down. The last good match Kurt had was June 11th, 1999, because it's going to be a while.

This was the best match on either show. Not that it was great or anything, but it was good. Wyndham interfered regularly and close line, David. Of course, that's what we're all about here. This is the go home for sold out. We know we're aiming towards a tag match. It's going to be Curt and Barry against Rick and David. And this is a very young David Flair.

I mean, we're here in January of 1999. I mean, he's 19, about to be 20. I mean, you talk about thrown to the wolves. that's where David Flair is here yeah this is I mean even the way he's dressed I mean if I feel guilty about anything is that we probably could have spent a lot more time trying to get David Flair ready and even if it's just the little things yeah he should have come out there looking if he's going to wear street clothes look like Ray Flair's up even if he didn't wear that you know

out in everyday where he should have been more should have represented some kind of a character as opposed to just standing out there looking like the guy that's ballet in cars at a hotel down the street that wasn't his fault it was 19 years old yeah that's right you're going to see kurt wrestle uh in singles action against rick flair three more times on nitro once in october of 99 once in February of 2000 and once in March of 2000. Those matches were in Biloxi, Minneapolis, and Chapel Hill, North Carolina.

The one in Biloxi went 10 and a half minutes. But this one actually got really rave reviews. We know these guys have great history together. Of course, they were together on Rick's Lose or Leaves, the WWF match. What do you think it is about Kurt? Because it does feel like every now and again,

he would find an opponent and he just had great chemistry with them. I know you were really fond of his match. matches with Nick Bachwinkle. I loved his matches against both Flair and Brett Hart. But it felt like Kurt had two speeds. Like there was one speed where he was engaged. Like you see right there, he just cut an entire flip for Rick Claire chop. And then other times, maybe less engaged. Did you see both Kurtz in your time in WCW with him? I did. I did. Of course, you know, the Kurt hitting when he first got there. And I remember when I signed Kurt, um, he came to W, he came to Atlanta and came

up to my office with his dad, Larry the accenting. And his dad is very imposing. But, you know, of course, I was familiar with Kurt. I didn't know Kurt on a personal basis, but I was very, very familiar with him, not only from being in WWE, but he was a Robinsdale guy, actually went to high school with my wife. So I certainly was aware of Kurt, but more from being a fan and watching him emerge in a wa and and it wasn't like you know fan boeing at all with kurt but i was so that you know wrestling fan and me came out when he was sitting there next to his dad larry the axe um

kurt when he first got the wcw it was awesome but he was played with injuries and with the injuries came additional weight and with additional weight came you know a slower match and not being able to sell quite as well. Injuries are really what got to Kurt more than anything else. And I think probably had a lot more to do with what could be perceived as an off again, on again type of performance was really more about the injuries. Yeah, chemistry, of course, chemistry always matters, but I think a lot more had to do with the injuries and the lack of mobility. Kurt could, Kurt's strength was selling. And I do think the additional weight as a result of the injuries kind of slowed him down quite a bit.

And I think people probably perceive that as just maybe not being quite as into the match, but I don't think that's fair. Well, here comes the figure four and Boy Knoxville's into it. Here comes Barry Windham to break it up. And of course, referee Peewey Anderson is going to call for the bell. A couple of quick questions here. John Thompson, the third says, what if mankind decided to jump ship to WCW after winning the WWE championship, would WCW have survived by the new champion acquisition?

Okay, I think what we're talking about is here, if you had an opportunity to have someone jump from WWF to WCW and instead of throwing the women's title in the trash can, we're going to throw the actual world title in the trash can. Would you have done that? Of course, these type of questions come your way because you signed Brett Hart when he's still technically was the world champion and well Vince McMahon used what you did with Medusa as a reason to say oh here's the justification to screw Brett Hart what say you would you have done some sort of world title in the trash can bit with their

world champion and what time period any any in all ever before before we got sued in federal court uh sure I would have after we got sued um no i wouldn't have because i wouldn't have been able to there were quite a bit of limitations of what i could and couldn't do and people watching over my shoulder um once the lawsuit became a reality so it the answer really depends on when part of the lawsuit i haven't done anything i wasn't afraid of anything all bets were off but that changed as i said as a result of the lawsuit John Thompson, the third, says fantasy booking, China versus Medusa would have been great in

WCW 99. I agree with that. Ask Obama to know, what are your thoughts on Barry Darsoe and Bill 80? Love, you know, I know, I know, I don't know, I know Billy Darsow. I know a little bit better. Again, you know, went to high school in Robbinsdale. Got to know his son quite well, pretty good friends with Barry. We don't stay in close contact, but we see each other on a road from time to time. So I've got nothing but great things to say about Barry. Great worker.

He's a big guy. He's bigger than he appears to be sometimes. But an amazing worker, smart guy, very talented and fun to work with. And a great duck hunter I made. So there's always that. Eric, they announced tonight on AW Dynamite that they're going to be doing Rickshay versus Swerve Strickland in a couple of weeks in Atlanta. think that's going to be going down February 5th.

What do you think of the way they've used ricochet so far and the idea that they're pairing him with Swerf Strickland, who you and I, just a few months ago, thought, and they're going to build the entire promotion around him. I don't know that that still is the plan, but with ricochet being across the ring from him, I'm at least curious. What do you think of that pairing? Well, if there's no story behind it, it's hard to get excited about it. You just look at it as a potential match.

I do, look, I enjoy watching Ricochet. I think his promos are Achilles heel. He's got a long way to go before he should be on a mic. But I do enjoy watching him in the ring. He's just athletically, he's impressive. It'll be interesting to see what the cat, and when I say chemistry, I don't mean personal chemistry, but I mean match chemistry looks like between swerve and ricochet.

A fricchees is good as a lot of people that have his abilities are at making other people look good. It can be an exciting match. It could also suck. So we'll have to see. Here he comes the big show, or he's about to be in five weeks. It's the Giants last match in WCW. And this is the last time you're going to see him on that iconic nitro ramp.

Last time you'll see him in WCW last time you'll see him in WCW. Last time you've got awesome. That's just impressive singlet. like oh are you being are you being funny I love it you love the singlet dude it's Andre I mean he's trying to channel his inner Andre yeah I guess like from a nostalgia standpoint that's what Andre wore so I was for what would you have rather you like the Captain Insano look is that what you like no I was not a big fan of Captain Insino but I think I would have just gone you know with regular

tights that it to me the strap thing just i get it it's nostalgia just wasn't buying it from day one and i think you know the whole idea of bringing him out his Andre's son was not the greatest way to introduce him and any call back to that it's like you come up with a really bad idea and a bad bad way of introducing a brand new character especially somebody like paul white and you kind of saddle him with the son of Andre thing it's bad enough that you did it but you need to keep calling back to it thanks a lot Mary. Nobody bets a thousand.

Well said. I ain't arguing that at all. We see the fun entrance here from the outsiders. We got Scott Hall and Kevin Nash. Of course, Kevin Nash is in his baby face hometown in Axwell. Not really his hometown, but he went to college here.

And it is a homecoming for him, having fun on the way to the ring. And Frank Rosano, no used the old noodle up here did a little smart thinking here you're going to love this eric i asked chat gpt what if the finger poke of doom never happened and it gave me two scenarios if nash won that night and if hogan won that night if nash won that night wcw was going to strive of course i think he means thrive but the idea is if you know chat g pt has now scoured the internet

long enough that it has decided Eric that if the finger poke of doom never happens WCW still in business this is Exhibit A boys and girls of why AI still has a waste to go because that cannot be further from the truth. My goodness.

Oh, Elon, Elon, Elon. No, that's Chad GPT. That's not Eli. Elon is GROC. I love grok. I have a lot of fun with GROC. You play with your grok a lot? I spent a lot of time with my grok. Has Mrs. B ever caught you playing with your grok? What'd she think about you playing with your grok?

She gets a kick out of because oftentimes I find things that make me laugh. And she's wondering what the hell I'm laughing. And then she knows Eric's playing with the grok again. He's tinkled. Just brock it again. John Thompson, the 3rd, says China and Scott Hall's deaths were mental health and addictions. It's no joke. Please talk to each other and help each other, change people's futures.

Remember, love gives you power and true championship success. Hey, look at John doing some motivational speaking here. Yeah, listen, mental illness is real and it's so crazy to see, you know, a guy like Scott Hall, who we know was just, man, the coolest guy on the entire program and he's no longer with us. I just don't think any of us would have ever even imagined that. Luis Martinez says, hey, Eric, how did you become such a great on-screen character, saw a clip from Dutch and even Cornette saying how

phenomenal you were as a GM and how easy it was for you compared to how horrible Russo was. I mean, did you take acting classes? Why do you think you were just a natural for being on camera so much, Eric? Is it from your modeling days early in life or what? Oh, probably a lot of a little bit of everything. I think being good on camera is just a matter of being comfortable. and part of being comfortable is just repetition and feeling almost forgetting that there's a camera there.

I spent a lot of time on camera before I got anywhere near decent. There was a lot of horseshit. There was a lot of really bad television before some of myself got to be pretty entertaining. It takes a while. It's just repetitive. It's no different than a golf swing or, flying an airplane or doing anything else that it's just repetition um and the other part of it was is i got to play myself i wasn't really playing a character i was playing myself with the volume

turned up which is not acting i guess it is performing i wouldn't consider it acting it's just performing and i just got comfortable doing it and through trial and error you you you realize the things that work. Sometimes it's just a little look or the gimmick in a point of your dimples and smiling with a cheesy smile. You know, whatever it is, you find the audience reacting to certain little things,

and then over and over again, you keep adding little things to your character. Maybe some of what you figure out works and doesn't work doing it live. Eventually, if you survive long enough, you get half-ass good at it. There was no classes or I didn't pattern. myself after anybody or anything like that.

It was just go out there and suck for a couple of years and hopefully keep your job long enough to get halfway decent at it. The high point of the show here when it came to the ratings, believe it or not, uh, or actually the high point for the raw show was mankind and Kane, which is a title match. Uh, and that does, um, I mean, what a rating 5.93. But the return to the Undertaker segment, which is horrible and does the sacrifice bet, does a 5.83, and that beat Rick Flair and Kerr Henning by more than two full points.

The Meltzer would say, if you're wondering why Flair, who's been WCW's top ratings draw the past two years, got devastated that badly, it's because he had already done an interview and a second skit during the show, but nobody had seen Undertaker on TV for four weeks. nobody, not even Austin or McMahon or Hogan or Goldberg, can maintain ratings power at the end if they're the main force of the show if they've been overexposed during the bulk. What do you make of that?

I know that when we talked to Bruce Richard, he had mentioned before that when he first went to work for events, man, they'd have these marathon TV tapings where they'd do challenge and superstars and everything else. And they might be there four or five hours, but the announcers would always keep teasing and don't forget fans stay tuned in our main event tonight Hulk Hogan is here the idea is they knew that if they ran Hulk Hogan out there first some of those families are going to say

we're going to get the kids to bed they got school tomorrow we got to get out of here but they needed the building to look full so they kept doing that Hogan T's getting them to stay to the end so Bruce has told us about that on something to wrestle from a television standpoint you've told us how important it is to have an A story a B story a C story and whenever possible to have like a story long thread chat me up about that is that different from a live perspective and keeping the fans engaged to a television perspective or is dave on to something here that if you have the same talent appearing in multiple segments naturally the news going to wear off now davis once again up his own ass stupid comments he doesn't know he didn't know

then he still doesn't know what makes television work I would agree with Dave's premise if we're talking about Rick Flair going out in front of the live crowd early in the show or in the middle of the show and then coming back out again in the end, then that would be true. But to suggest that someone's showing up in a segment that is a thread leading up to something later on in the show makes no sense at all. It's not two different scenarios. I would argue, depending on how well it's done, of course, that seeing someone like Rick Flair in a scene, in a skit, whatever you want to call it, in an angle, the role we're on the show as long as it's backstage and it's on tape, only enhances the reaction to that talent once they're live.

So I would agree if we're talking about Rick Flair going out and doing something in the ring live and coming out at the end of the night live, that live reaction is never going to be the same second time out very likely that's that's not true when you're coming talking about tape segments whether you're sitting at home or whether you're sitting in the audience two different oh look as you showing up to do commentary in the last segment of the show nitro believe it or not on this night did win a quarter hour believe it or not it was scott stiner and diamond dallas page that got a 5.5 and that was the high point for monday nitro meanwhile we saw the uh kin shamrock angle with Valvenus and Billy Gunn.

And we also saw Xbox and now Snow. So DDP and Scott Steiner proven they are indeed draws a 5.5 here. By the way, the actual main event, if you're wondering, that final quarter hour with the McMahon video and the start of the corporate rumble does a 5.06. So raw overall does a 5.5, which is broken down with a 5.46 and a 5.5, four that's a 7.98 share nitro loses but man just barely it does a 4.99 which is a 5.87 first hour which is bigger than anything on raw and then a 4.9 second hour and a 4.29 third hour and a 7.16

share Eric in today what would a 4.99 rating represent just the total number of viewers if you had to guess I just multiply it by probably 1.5 or six at that point in time so wow okay in terms of total millions and millions and millions of people watching here and we're seeing as the NWO is out here we're spray painting up the big show or the giant this is his swan song in WCW and and he's doing the honors he's taking care of business the right way. Any qualms about the finish here? None whatsoever. I think we did the best we could with what we had. Paul did his part. He was a pro. A lot of respect for him. This was indeed the go home show for NWO sold out, or I guess at this point it's just called the

sold out pay-per-view. And we're hoping to sell it out next week because we're going to be back talking about the rise of Goldberg. Finally, we've been teasing it. We've been talking about it. We've been bragging about it and it's finally coming your way next week we're going to talk about the good the bad and the ugly but before we do we want to get to a few more questions here we'll finish up want to shout out to rj thank you for being a member for eight months greatly appreciate that proto man says was eric aware of how close sean michaels was of jumping ship and what he could have done with him besides hanging out with hall and Nash you said before you thought there may have been trouble and you weren't really motivated to bring him in do you remember him

ever calling the office or reaching out directly? Never. Never happened. He never made a move. I never made a move. I was hoping that he didn't try. I was hoping that Scott and Kevin didn't want him to come in because it was just, it was not the right time for him to be a part of

WCW. But there was never, it never got close. I don't know, again, it's just narrative. It was never a conversation, any kind of a serious conversation. Scott and Kevin may have talked to him, but that's not what I would consider a serious conversation. Then says Eric has praised Dave as one of the best historians.

Does Eric thinks Dave's history assessment may now be all for bias given how much we've seen him flop and be careless in recent years. Do you think there's been an evolution of Dave Meltzer? Have you always sort of held him in the same regard you do now? No, he knows his history. He's good at two things in the wrestling business. Eulogies and history. His observations and his commentary about what works and what doesn't work. in television and in business in general is completely off the wall.

And I think he's come off the rails. I think so much is, you know, Dave's, Dave's been exposed. He's an older guy. He's a little, getting a year or two younger than I am. Dave had the luxury during the bulk of his, if you want to call it a career, I'll call it existence. He's had the luxury of nobody being able to call him out on his bullshit. And fast forward, here we are.

We've got podcasts. We've got digital. We've got X. We've got Instagram. We've got all kinds of people that were there and have done it who can now call out Dave's bullshit. And now the fans are calling out Dave's bullshit. So I think Dave is realizing that the curtain is kind of falling on his ability to con the audience and, you know, convince people that he knows things he really doesn't know. It's becoming more and more obvious every day to everyone.

All you've got to do is look at some of his commentary and follow the comments of it. part of it. It's pretty obvious that people aren't buying his bullshit anymore. Well, we appreciate John Thompson buying our bullshit. He just gifted five memberships to 83 weeks.com. And we're great to appreciate you, John. And I want to throw you a too sweet. Thank you guys very much. If you haven't already, be sure to hit that subscribe button. Turn on your notifications bell because next week, guess what? We're doing it live right here on YouTube, totally free. The Rise of Goldberg. Why was Mike Teney really behind the streak of Goldberg. What was the early Bill Goldberg like compared to what he became? Did he change?

We'll find out next week. And we're going to get to the bottom of that infamous match between Goldberg and William Regal. What's real? What's not? We're also going to ask the hard hitting questions like, why pad the wins? We're all counting along and then all of a sudden there were more wins than we can keep up with. We'll talk about it all next week right here on 83 weeks.com. If you haven't already, be sure to hit that subscribe button and turn. turn on your notifications bell. And we'll see you next week, right here on 83 weeks with Derek Bischoff. Hey, hey, it's Conrad Thompson, here to tell you a little more about what ad-free

shows.com is all about. Get early, ad-free access to more than a dozen of your favorite wrestling podcasts every single week, starting at just nine bucks. That's less than 20 cents an episode each month. And yes, you can listen to them all directly through Apple Podcasts or your regular podcast apps. How easy is that? Add free shows also has thousands of hours worth of bonus content and docu-series like Title Chase, Eric Fires Back, Conversations with Conrad, and the Insiders. Plus new series like The Book with David Crockett, Monday Mailbags with Mike Keota and

Nick Patrick, and a whole lot more. And you want to talk about early. You can't get any earlier than listening to the shows live. You can be a part of the live studio audience as we record the podcast. ride shotgun alongside your favorite childhood heroes for live watch-alongs, Q&As, and other interactive experiences every single month. Come on now, see for yourself what thousands of other wrestling fans from around the world have discovered that ad-freeshows.com is the best value in wrestling. Check it out today. And hey, when you do, the first week is completely free ad-freeshows.com.

Thank you.