83 Weeks with Eric Bischoff - Episode 361: What If? Vol 2

Episode Date: February 14, 2025

On this episode of 83 Weeks, Eric and Conrad take us on a wild ride of "What If" hypotheticals such as What If Eric hired HBK instead of Bret, What If Eric never created the cruiserweight division, and What If Eric had today's social media available during WCW's prime? Eric answers all those scenarios and so much more on this edition of 83 Weeks with Eric Bischoff. BILT - Start earning points on rent you’re already paying by going to https://www.joinbilt.com/83WEEKS  TUSHY - Over 2 Million Butts Love TUSHY. Get 10% off Tushy with code 83WEEKS at https://hellotushy.com/83WEEKS #tushypod FACTOR - Eat smart with Factor. Get started at https://www.factormeals.com/83WEEKS and use code 83weeks50off to get 50% off your first box plus free shipping. THE PERFECT JEAN - F*%k your khakis and get The Perfect Jean 15% off with the code 83WEEKS15 at theperfectjean.nyc/83WEEKS15#theperfectjeanpod PRIZE PICKS - Download the app today and use code 83WEEKS to get $50 instantly after you play your first $5 lineup! PrizePicks. Run Your Game! MANDO - Control Body Odor ANYWHERE with @shop.mando and get $5 off your Starter Pack (that’s over 40% off) with promo code 83WEEKS at https://shopmando.com #mandopod Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Hey, hey, it's Conrad Thompson, and you're listening to 83 weeks with Eric Fish Off. Eric, what's going on, man? How are you? Freezing my ass off. That's what I'm doing. 20 thinking degrees below zero. The birds aren't even out, man. You can't, there's like no sign of life around here is so cold. Yeah, you told me the other day, uh, because you were fortunate enough to return to center stage and we're going to talk about that in a minute, but you told me when you got home, you almost got stuck in your driveway. You had to call for snow plow support to get home, Eric.

Well, not quite, but yeah, I got home late Sunday night from Atlanta and about two feet, maybe a little more of snow in my, in my, well, everywhere, but in my driveway. which, you know, it's a fair amount of snow, but I've got a really long driveway. It's, I don't know, a quarter of a mile. It's not just like a short driveway. And I'm tired. I really hadn't been home in almost two weeks because I started off coming down to Huntsville a couple days early.

Did Huntsville, then went to Tampa, from Tampa to Atlanta, back to Tampa, and then Sunday night I get home. So we're talking about a 10-day stretch or more. So I was kind of anxious. get into the house and I'm sitting at the end of the road because the road had been plowed just not my driveway looking up it's dark looking I went out and I checked to see how deep it was and I'm in a four wood drive pickup by the way it's not like I'm in a car I thought man I need to go back in a town and stay at a hotel figured out in the morning get some sleep because I was

tired or I'm just going to put this thing in low low close my eyes and hit the gas which is what I did I didn't close my eyes, although it was dark out, not much to see, but snow. And I almost got stuck. Two times it was a little scary, you know, kind of like, oh my gosh. The third time I was contemplating getting out of my truck and walking the rest of the way to my house because I didn't think I was going to make it. But I pulled it out that 95 GMC, 2,500 did the job, pulled me out of that hole and I did finally make it up to the house. But I couldn't get out for two days. It took that long to get somebody to my house to plow because it's,

it's a lot of snow here. We're glad you made it. I do have to ask, is that the first time you've been at center stage in a long, long time? What was it like walking back in that building after all this time? It's one of the reasons I did the show because I wanted to experience that. First part of your question, 35 years. Oh, my.

Well, I figure it would have been in early 1995. So 30 years. Yeah. 30 years, not 35, 30 years. And I was so excited just to step foot in that building one more time. And I anticipated a lot of things would have changed structurally. But it did. The bar is a lot nicer upstairs, a lot nicer and three times bigger.

Because I remember when I first got to the building, I got there early. right. It was Saturday afternoon. It was pretty nice outside. I thought I'm just going to go walk around. It's right in the Midtown area. There's a lot of really cool restaurants and just cool shit. So, you know, I went walking around and then when I came back, I went into a different entrance and I went up into the bar area, which is upstairs or alongside of, I guess, the stage area. And that was the first place. That's why I met Andre the Giant. And I sat at the end of the bar with Andre. He was seated. and Dusty was seated and I was standing and Dusty called me over in which I'm grateful for

and introduced me to Andre because he didn't know who I was and I got to meet him and hang out and have a beer with with Dusty and Andre and I thought you know I just want to go back to that spot that very physical spot that I remember so vividly it's not there anymore because they expanded everything so I knew about where it was and I stood there and you know I couldn't really drink said to work that nights but I stood there and just soaked it all in and I went down downstairs into the, the dress room areas, and it's a lot nicer now than it was them. Like, a lot nicer, for sure, a lot nicer. And it had been expanded, but so, you know, the main locker rooms were still there,

remodeled, obviously, again, nicer, but still there. And here's what was really cool. It was just, and it was only cool to me, and I don't expect anybody listening to think it was a cool moment, but it was to me. So I'm going to share it. So I'm just kind of walking around saying hello to people and getting a lay of the land. And I looked over and I see Brock Anderson, Arnson, who I've met several times and I've said hello to whenever I do. And, you know, we've exchanged pleasantries.

But that's it. I've never had a conversation with him. And he was standing there with two other wrestlers. Don't remember who they were at this point. And he saw me and, you know, we made eye contact. I can tell you want, he's a relatively, I don't want to say shy, but he's, he's a very polite, very humble young man, and I don't know if he felt comfortable approaching me or not. But I could tell he wanted to ask me something or say something. So I walked over to him, he said, Mr. Bischoff,

do you know where the exact spot was where Orndorf beat up Vader? I thought, that is such, that's such a real question. You know, you grew up hearing all this stuff and hear these stories, I'm sure, from his father, and now he's in the business, a lot of other people. It's kind of taken on a story of its own, so to speak. But so I walked him over, him and his buddies. I said, I'm pretty, and I admit, you know, I said, I wasn't here. I didn't see it.

But I was on my way to the building when it all went down. And Jenny Engel was there. she immediately took me over to where it happened and began to explain how it happened. It's the only reason I know exactly where it was is because Janie showed me. I thought that was just a really cool thing. It just reminded me of how much history is in that little tiny venue called Center Stage. You think about when I first got there, it was Vader, it was Rick Flair and Ricky Steamboat and so many legends.

Rick Rood, ultimately, Hulk Hogan, I mean, so many people came through there and performed there back when WCW Saturday night was, that was our A show, 605 Eastern 305 Pacific on Saturdays. It's a horrible time period, but we still did all right. You know, we were still drawing the equivalent of about three or four million people on Saturdays back then in that little tiny venue. but I thought a lot about all the talent that came through those doors and, you know, staying early on and it was just to me fascinating. I love that kind of history. Sting, Flair, Foley, Austin,

Triple H. Pillman, such a big part of it, the Steiner brother. Oh, you can go on and out. We can spend all day talking about that. Savage. I mean, on and on. You know, with these days, though, there is another small building. It's making a lot of noise. I'm talking about the Performance Center down in Orlando. We got the news this past Monday, Eric, that there were a lot of releases,

not just on the WW side of things, but on the AEW side of things. Allegedly, according to the reports we've seen, Alicay Black, Mero, and Ricky Starks no longer with AEW. We see that on Monday. And then on Tuesday, wait a minute, is that Ricky Starks on NXT? Did you see this? What did you think? I saw the clip.

But I was really impressed with the way they brought him in. I think bringing him down to the crowd as a surprise, added some of the value somewhere, haven't we? Somebody coming here. Yeah, there was some similarities, for sure. But it was really, really well done, you know, and it made me think the next day, or later that day I saw it yesterday morning.

it's like you know there are multiple ways of introducing the character there's no one right way there's a lot of different ways you can do it and of the different choices that they had with rickie because obviously they knew this was probably in development at least i don't think anybody was surprised um they had a couple choices to make creatively uh as we saw with with Penta. They had merch waiting for him. His merch got there before he did. That was one way of doing it. But I think the way they brought him in down through the crowd, first, first off the bat, once that crowd recognized that they were part of the show, they realized that red light was pointing at them. They got into it. Took him a couple seconds, maybe 30.

20 seconds, and then all of a sudden, everybody realized, holy crap, this is his entrance, and I'm on TV. That added enthusiasm and energy made Ricky a bigger star before he said a word. Not because of the size of the audience. I've seen a lot of criticism. There's only 600 people there. It's not really the big time. It's just kind of moronic, but typical, I guess.

But to bring him down through the crowd, as a surprise, it's bonus for everybody. They get to be on TV. I think it was absolutely the best way to bring Ricky in. It made it look like he was crashing the party. And people love that. They react to it as they did. And I think it was a perfect way to introduce him. I think it's interesting that fans can still get so excited.

about this sort of thing when talent goes back and forth and jumps back and forth. I mean, that was one of the exciting, most exciting parts of the Monday night wars, right, Eric? And now we're seeing, I'm not saying this is like the Monday night wars, but just the idea that you've got a talent on one show and we hear that he's

released on a Monday and the very next day he's on the other show. Yeah, that's that probably hasn't happened, right? Yeah. I mean, we've, you know, talents is crossed back and forth. that's not unusual but usually it comes with a fair amount of hype up front yeah and it's no real surprise this was like a 24 hour turnaround he's gone he's back probably a fair amount of people that aren't you know die hard internet wrestling people may not even know he was gone so i thought

it was really cool but yeah that fast turnaround is just you know i think i don't know how many you know internet wrestling fans show up at the uh performance center for their advance. I would assume a good portion of them. Um, so they knew they, they were aware of Ricky's situation in AEW, a good percentage of them were, I'm sure. So I think that he that made that reaction easier to get because they saw Ricky trying hard for the last several months to find a way out. And whether they knew about it in advance, or not, he shows up 24 hours after his release is final, perfect timing. It's really exciting as a wrestling fan, but it does make me wonder, now what?

Like, he made a big splash, and I'm pumped that Ricky's a part of NXT, but now we find out where the rubber meets the road as far as the story. And I'm not saying they're going to do some sort of half-assed invasion angle. I'm not suggesting anything like that, but I am just saying, I know folks were excited to see him but now we kind of got to do something in the confines of nxte so then what happens next with rickie will be very interesting and i think a lot of people need to pay very close attention to that for a variety of reasons would you agree with that oh absolutely absolutely and again i would i don't know this right nobody's told me this but i would imagine there's a plan has been

waiting for absolutely developed but i would imagine the out there's a plan has been waiting for absolutely developed But I would imagine the outline of, okay, if this guy ends up here, what should we do with him? And if WWE was aware of the timeline and new three weeks ago, for example, that Ricky was going to be free on that particular date or even two weeks ago, I'm certain as I sit here that somebody was assigned to, okay, let's be ready for him. it would be silly not to. And let's see what that is. I'm anxious, my damn phone. I don't even know how to turn her off anymore. I don't know, man.

Getting old. So, yeah, I would imagine there's a plan, and it'll be fun as you point out, to see where it goes. I hope they don't, and I'm not, you know, say I'm not worried about it. I could care less, really. I don't have a dog in the hunt. I hope they do something really different with him.

you know, like, I know you acknowledge that, you know, not like an invasion angle, but let's give that cat a cool story. Let's, let's see what he's got because, you know, you may be far more familiar with Ricky than I am. I, first way, hasn't been on TV a lot recently. And even when he was, I wasn't watching much of AEW. So my first thought is, how long can he stay healthy? Is he injury prone?

and it comes to mind because at least when I was there both as a talent in early 2000 and later on as an executive for a minute that ring is hard I've taken bumps in that ring that ring that ring is hard I don't know what an AEW ring feels like because I've never taken a bump in one but I do know the WWE rings are tough to get used to as talent because I've heard people tell me over the years If Ricky's healthy and he's not injury prone, he'll probably make that transition pretty quickly. I suspect he's going to be spending a fair amount of time in the performance center to work off some ring rust and WWE eyes his approach to wrestling.

Because WWE has a much different approach to what goes out inside of the ring than at least what I've seen out of AEW or even WCW back in the day. I'm not drawing the comparison, I'm just saying. WWE has a very specific way that they like to do things. Quick PSA for anyone who rents. If you haven't heard of built, you're about to thank me. Earning points on rent is now a reality when you pay your rent through built. You don't even have to check with your landlord to start earning points

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redeemed towards a future rent payment and unique experiences that only built members can access. So if you're not earning points on rent, my question is, why not? Start earning points on your rent, you're already paying by going to joinbuilt.com slash 83 weeks. That's J-O-I-N-B-I-T dot com slash 83 weeks. And be sure to use our URL so they know we sent you. That's joinbuilt.com slash 83 weeks to start earning points on your rent payments today. Well, Ricky Starks is going to be a renter in Orlando or so it seems. It feels like he's going to be an N-X-T regular, at least for now.

I know no one's aspirating. No, we got to sell that cat of mortgage. Let's get him in a house. It'll be no retinone condominium. Come on, say. Save with Eric.com. Ricky can hook you up. Call me, Ricky.

Let's talk a little bit about, you know, what you think is next for, you know, these different talents because we haven't spent a lot of time, but we do know that there's a whole handful of folks whose careers or WWE dreams, rather, came to an end last week, including friends of ours like Gallows and Anderson. They find themselves. on the release list. For a lot of people, this is devastating news. It represents the end of a dream or some sort of, you know,

they may feel like they failed at their dream. I would say not so fast, my friend. It's not the end of the world. It's what you make it, right, Eric? You got to reinvent yourself, man. You know, if, if, and look, in the case of the good brothers, they're too smart guys, they're fine. they'll have a plan.

But I think particularly, because they've been around for a while, they know, this was probably not even a surprise to them. They probably saw it coming a long time ago, right? And I'm sure that there's a plan waiting for them of sorts. But if you're in your 20s and you haven't been thinking beyond professional wrestling, you've not only lost an opportunity to your point, Conrad, you've lost complete direction in your life. Your life is now going in a direction that you did not see coming or didn't want to see

coming. You know, nobody wants to imagine that their goal is just not going to happen or it's over, even if you've made it, right? Nobody wants to hear that clock ticking in the back of their head. So it's going to be tough. But,

you know, if, listen, I've been through it. If anybody knows, I do, you just got to look at it. at it as an opportunity because it is if you want it to be and you let it be and figure out

your next move. The indie scene is hot. Go out on the indie scene for a while. Try to reinvent your character or maybe get good at a part of your game like promo skills, for example, go take some improv classes. Improv classes. Why would you suggest I take improv classes? Because it teaches you to think on your feet. And it teaches you to react to somebody else's dialogue. And that's like the biggest part of performing is acting and reacting. Acting falls flat if there's no reacting to go along with it. And improv teaches you how to, it fires off the neural pathways in your brain that up until that point have never been fired up before could there be no reason to, right? So that's what I would do.

If you need to get in better shape, go do that or maybe do both. And more than likely, if you're reasonably good at your craft, there'll be other opportunities. Or decide whether, you know, I got to pursue this, I got close to it, I got to experience it. Now it's time for the next chapter. But certainly don't let it get you down. That's the worst thing. That's actually worse than getting let go is not handling. handling it properly maybe ask yourself what if that's the topic of our show today

what if and it's two of the most powerful words of the English language and we've had a lot of fun discussing this in the archives and we're going to continue these conversations with a series of hypotheticals that were suggested by you the listener if you haven't already join the conversation at 83 weeks.com be sure to hit the subscribe button and turn on the notifications bell so you don't miss us the next time we're live but that's also where you'll find in the archives where we've talked about what if before let's pick up a good one from uh instagram or wrestling historian he starts us off here today and says what if eric bischoff was brought back for the wcw report without vince russo so we know that you get the call

in 2000 you're going to come back and uh you and vince are going to try to work together And one of the things you do is you just start over, you know, you have new tournaments to crown new champions and you establish, you know, the new blood and the, the, the millionaires club. But what if you were asked to come back and Vince Rousseau wasn't there? And it's just the Eric Bischoff show. What changes, if anything, Eric? Not a lot to be honest with you. given the circumstances, the context of what had been going on, what was going on at that moment within the industry, my relationship with the company that everybody was well aware of it.

And it wasn't like, hey, whatever happened to Eric Bishop, everybody knew where I was and certainly me coming back was maybe not as noteworthy, but damn close. So my gut tells me, and largely because a lot of what you saw was, I'm going to say it was all mine. 60, 70% of it, I think, was in terms of the basic idea. Because the young guys versus the old guys was kind of a relatively public narrative. Vince McMahon and WWE started it when they started making fun of how all the old guys and like, you know, Hulk Hogan and Randy Savage.

And that whole period of time back in whatever that was, 96 or 97, the billionaire Ted Skits and all the stuff that WW did to basically dump on WCW talent, our top stars. That was the beginning of the narrative. It's all these old guys. They depended on all these old guys, old guys, old guys, old guys. And then it became part of the dirt sheet narrative. They latched on to that. it's, you know, something you can say and sound like, you know, what you're talking about. So they, you know, like moths to a flame, started, you know, repeating and amplifying

how old all of our guys were. And that filters down, right? It ends up because you get a bunch of young guys, some of them have been in a business for a couple years, some of them maybe five, six, seven years. You've got a lot of guys that have been in a business for two years at that point in WCW. And they're all latched down to the dirt sheets. So that begins to kind of metastasize a little bit, even in the, even in the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the, the thought of talent. So that old guys, young guys, narrative was not just in the dirt sheets. It was pretty much everywhere, particularly in my locker. Knowing me, the way I think I do, I would have wanted to exploit that fact, as opposed to ignore it.

Ignoring things don't make them go away, but finding a way to utilize a situation like I had with the old guys, young guys, and all the narrative that was out there, again, perpetual, the catalyst was WWE, but then all the, you know, super talented dirt sheet writers all kind of glommed on it, it was a reality. So I could either pretend it didn't exist or, hmm, how do I make this work? And that was kind of the thinking for the millionaires club. Certainly, Rousseau had a lot of input. I'm not suggesting he was, I don't mean to minimize him in this. It may have been 50, 50, 50. I don't know. I remember.

Some days it was 100% me. Some days it was 100% of him. Take you, whatever. But we did work pretty closely together on it. And there was nothing that Vince wanted to do or suggested to do that I went, eh, nah. I was very supportive of that whole Millionaire's Club idea because, like I said, I wanted to turned chicken shit into chicken salad as best I could.

As far as, you know, going forward from that, because there was a period of time when I first got there working with Vince, I was like really optimistic. I didn't come in there with a chip on my shoulder or a bias of any kind. I was thrilled to freaking death. I just had them write me a brand. It paid me off my previous contract. I had two and a half years left on it. It was a significant of my.

money. I got that. And then I had to cash in my stocks. I didn't even know I had or I know I just didn't know what they were. Well, there's a million bucks. And now I'm coming back to an even more attractive contract as a essentially a consultant. And all I got to do is get along with this cat. That's a low hanging fruit. And that's the way I went into it. It's like, man, I don't need to be the boss. I don't want to be the boss anymore. I was very specific about that. I don't want to have anything to do because I knew Turner was more screwed up by the time I came back. I'm talking about Turner corporate was more screwed up in the three months I was gone than it had been when I left. And I could see it. I knew people that were affected by it.

I heard about it weekly and noticed that it would be a part of it. So there was about three months there, I would say, two months or three months. When working with Rousseau was I had no problem with it. It wasn't until we got through all the low-hanging fruit. I keep using that term. I'm sorry. But until we got past all the easy stuff that was right there in front of us to weave into story and to create story with.

And it got into more details or granular booking or create writing, I should say. I hate using word bookers. So dated. There's no bookers anymore. What the hell are you people out there writing a booker? about wrestling still referring to writers as bookers well hang on i mean tony conn's a booker isn't he he's certainly not a writer well i mean i knew you were going to say that but i'm saying he books matches so like in the in a if you're going to i've always thought the word

booker in you in ufc parlance might be called matchmaker well and and you could but to tony's defense yes i'm coming to tony's defense here oh my god people are going to be falling over running off the side of the road if they're listening to this in their car falling down off their chairs if they're reading about it at home tony con finds two i don't remember watching work before so i'm guessing and have some insight from a couple people i know there he he has an idea for a match based on matchmaking. He sees one talent with a specific skill set or character.

He sees another talent with a specific skill set or character. And I'm guessing, don't know, the way Tony's mind works is he's going, okay, I want to see these two. Let's come up with some ideas. By the way, I'm not saying that's a bad thing. But it's the coming up with the ideas part that has nothing you do with picking one guy and putting them against another and just putting two guys together it isn't what we're seeing typically on national television today so it's more of a creative

process it's more writing than booking i guess that's what i should have said who was the last booker then eric verengania was a booker now Part of that might have been because he was forced to be. Right. Because talent had, you know, top talent had evaporated. They were all in WWE and it was kind of starting from scratch. And there was nobody with any real notoriety. You know, Larry Zubiscoe was there.

And, you know, Sergeant Slaughter was there when I got there. And I think Harley Race would come through once in a while and things like that. But it was kind of hard to build a story in a monthly territory. when your talent's only in town once a month. It's tough. So we ended up just going to Rochester, Minnesota, I think it was a Mayo Civic Auditorium, and we produced our shows for ESPN and syndication, like once a month. It's kind of tough to tell stories.

So Vern was essentially just booking matches. Will Kevin Sullivan qualify to be one of the last Booker Man's? Not when he was working at WCW, but perhaps prior. I mean, there was at least, look, I'm not saying the stories are good or the process was right. But the process even back then in WCW, when I was there and Kevin was working with me, it wasn't like, oh, we want to see this guy and this guy, let's figure out how to make it happen. It was, what if we put this guy in a story because of what's going on or because of this idea? I have and have him work with this guy because then something else can happen based off

of that. It was just, it was reverse engineering as opposed to just plug it in two names. Let's plug in two names here. Brian Drake wants to know, what would you do with Holland Nash if you didn't have the NWO angle? Well, they have always been a team. Who would they work with? Did you have other ideas they pitched or they said no to or maybe we're just left on

the creative floor? So in this alternate timeline, Eric, you don't have an NWO idea. You don't have an invasion angle, but you have signed the former diesel and the former Razor. They're coming back to a company where they were the diamond stud and they were Beny Vegas. So these are less than awesome ideas creatively, but they're back now and they're back as bigger stars.

Would you still pair them together because, you know, they had been on the other channel, but I don't know if that even makes sense. But is it even possible to imagine a world where they're not doing the NWO? What would that look like in WCW? That's funny. You say in the very end of your right before you finish is the most interesting one because as you're asking me that question, I said to myself, I can't even imagine what I would have done if it wasn't an NWO idea just because it's, you know, it is what it is.

Well, part of this is easy because I know I wouldn't have booked him as a tag team because for obvious reasons at that time, as I've said many times before on this show and others, tag team wrestling was just not my idea of a good idea, just from a cost perspective. And we were still managing costs pretty carefully back then. And once I made up my mind about tag teams and said, okay, we can't, we could still, you can have one every now and then, you could feed. you're not going to have a tag team division so to speak so there was a regular part of every show um i'd already made up my mind about that so the idea of bringing them in as a tag

team because they came from wwee together it would not have crossed my mind they would have been in singles competition in terms of who would they have worked with i i uh man nash and hogan didn't feel obvious, right? Well, yeah, that's an easy one, although I also would have recognized that bringing in Nash and turning him heel immediately, maybe, probably could have worked, but it would not have been optimal, just wouldn't have been optimal. You can't come off a character, especially that had the exposure. that Diesel did and has to have him show up as something completely different and

pretended it didn't happen. Right. That's not good. So I would have tried to find a way. If Nash would have been for Hogan, I would have looked at that as three months from now, maybe six months from now, bring him in, let him get his baby face reaction and then build something when it ended up with him and Hogan. And that would have been obvious just because of Kevin's size.

I know the internet is going to say it, so I just need to say it to you here. Diesel was a heel when he left the WWF. But to your point, whenever a big star appears for the first time, they get a hero's welcome because you get the superstar. Oh, I'm familiar with that guy. I'm excited. He's here. So you get a baby face pop even if he is a heel, right?

Right. And I should have been clear about that. You especially coming at that time because Nitro was just beginning to get hot. You go back and look at 95 and early 96 part of NWO, a lot of, you know, again, bullshit narrative. Or you, Nitro, you know, it wasn't even competitive until the NWO. People forget that we started beating WWE in 1995. Yeah.

It was probably 50-50 every single week until, you know, 96 in the NWO angle and then it became lopsided. So we had already created a significant amount of awareness and had that crowd who we had grown substantially as well as our television audience by that point, seeing Diesel come in, he could have been, he could have walked through the door biting heads off chickens and they still would have popped for him because it would look like Ricky Starbs. They're just happy to see action. I don't mean physical action, but I mean transitions.

Oh, my God, he's here. So, yeah, he would have got a baby face reaction no matter what. But I would have taken some time to build him and to do it with a story. And Hogan more than likely would have demanded that as well. I don't know, man. Holland Flair, just sitting here right now. That'd be a hell of a matchup. Yeah.

And they work together in the WWF. So fans who saw Razor and Rick Flair in 92, yeah, I could see that. But it is interesting to think like, what would you even call them? Like, you know, we saw a lot of guys when they came from WCW or from the WWF into WCW. We're going to use silly knockoff names, you know, like we have shark for earthquake or we have the boss for the big boss man. So it's like we know we can't really call them exactly. that so we'll get close hey he's not nails he's the prisoner like i can only imagine what terrible name we may have given these guys as razor ramone and i mean i would you have gone

scott hall or is there a change yes at this point in time you know go gulbert you know ernest the cap miller you know it's not just what i'm saying to you today it's what i did back then because back then i made up my again you got to go back to the the very beginning when I had my yellow legal pad sitting in the office after I walked out of Ted's office and had two hours of primetime television dumped on my lap. Oh, go by the way, go compete with WWE. See ya. I don't want to talk about China TV anymore. Just go do that. So I'm sitting in my room in my office with a door locked, my phone on Do Not Disturb, my version of it back then. And I'm thinking, okay, how do I do this? I've, I've,

just been handed either the greatest opportunity in the world or the gun in which I can load the bullet myself and put myself out of my own misery career-wise. It was one or the other. How do I do it? Because I didn't even have time to think about it. I would have never, if somebody would have said to me 24 hours earlier, by the way, here's my crystal ball. You're going to go in for this meeting with Ted Turner to talk about Star TV in China? Well, you're never going to get there because Ted's going to give you two, hours, whatever it is, to go head-to-head with Monday Night Raw. I would have laughed at them.

This is your highest fuck. It happened in. So when it did happen, I had no idea what I was going to do. Zero. I didn't, I don't, I know, something I think, I know I hadn't spent 10 seconds up until that day thinking about competing with WWE. My focus was to try to make WCW, first and foremost, profitable. That was my first goal, mandate, turn that one dollar profit.

And then all the rest of the goals kind of came in underneath that. But at that point in time, one of the things on my list of things to do different than WWE was, as I've said many times, shoot for the 18 to 49 year old male audience because WWE's not. It's a ripe apple just hanging off the tree. They don't want it. I'll take it. That was one. But along with that, there's kind of like subcategories to that strategy. And one of them is get away from the cartoonish, get away from the overly animated, get away from everything that you can without damaging the product that have become so ingrained in the culture of the audience that people are going to be shocked when you don't do it anymore.

All right. I don't think through it quite to that level, but pretty close. I knew I didn't want to come up with gimmick names anymore. If possible, sometimes it's not, sometimes there's a gimmick name that's really appropriate. But the difference, again, between WCW at the time and WWE at that time is WWE at that time is because WWE had enjoyed the benefits of an extremely robust licensing and merchandising business.

WCW didn't have it. There was a little bit of licensing here or there, very unsuccessful and not very well sustained over time. We'd get a video game in every once in a while. We'd get some deal that would come in and everybody get excited. But in the big scheme of things, there were nickels and dimes. So while in WWE, knowing that 25% of your revenue, which at that point in time, I think licensing and merchandising was really 25% of their grocery seats, if that's such an important part of your business, you're going to approach new talent coming in much differently than I did because I don't have any licensing and merchandising. it was not a priority.

Therefore, if that wasn't a priority, what is 18 to 49 year old males and they don't want goofy animated cartoon names? What's giving them a real name? Like Ernest Miller, Bill Goldberg. It's interesting to think about, because I know you said, without hesitation, you know, you went right into Scott Hall, but that's the same year where we're debuting, the blood runs cold thing we've got glacier basically doing a mortal combat ripoff would there have been an idea it was a tribute it wasn't a rip off it was a tribute my bad uh virtual fighter

which may not be may not ring a bell to you it rings a bell to everyone my age it was the number one video game in japan in 95 it became an arcade game and we all fell in love with it and there were it's a fighting game so it's a lot like uh you know, Mortal Kombat in that regard. Was there ever going to be any sort of, I mean, if the blood runs cold thing had been a hit and had gone well, do you think you would have continued to draw on inspiration from other video games or no? It depends how successful it would have become.

And again, just because I was sitting in my office with a legal pad coming up of things that I wanted to do differently, it's like, okay, from now on, everybody that comes to the door is going to have to use their real name. Wasn't that? Just in this particular case, because of these two particular people, definitely wanted to go down that road as opposed to the blood runs cold. But keep in mind, the blood runs cold idea. The idea of Glacier came about before Ray Lloyd did.

In other words, the idea to develop that cast of characters was specifically, because I wanted to attract the attention of video games. I wanted to attract the attention of that portion of the audience that was under 18. Again, when I say target 18 to 49, that doesn't mean exclude everybody else. But you focus a little bit more there because that's your core audience, but you can't ignore the fringe, right? So that, you know, the whole glacier thing was, okay, we don't have a licensing and merchandising business.

We don't have it. It doesn't really exist. So how do we get it to exist? I know we create characters very specifically for one part of a very popular video game genre. So the intent going into Blood Runs Cold. from the original idea, when the idea popped into my head was specifically to try to achieve what we didn't have, which was places to commercializing.

Let's talk about something you and I have both achieved. And that's a clean butthole. Thanks to our friends, I wish you know, listen, in January, we hear people say things like, I want to eat more veggies and hike more. And then by February, we're all just saying, I just want my asshole to stop burning when I go to the bathroom. Well, Tushie Biday will clean up after all your bullshit. I'm a big believer in this product. I've had a Tushie wave bidet for a long time.

Actually, Eric was just at my house, and he can attest to this. Every toilet here has a tushy on it because I want you to be clean, man. I really can't believe how barbaric and how old-fashioned and how silly the toilet paper routine is. I mean, think about this. If you were out digging around in the garden, doing some yard work, as my parents like to call it, And you came in and you, well, you had dirty hands. You'd been digging around in the dirt. Would you just rub a dry paper towel over it and say, we're good?

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Eric, is there anything better than a clean butthole? Is there anything better than no dingleberries? As Josh Haney says, is there anything better than a clean taint? And Eric's dead. Fuck it. Had a good run.

Rattushy. I don't know. I give up. I don't know what happened. He popped up and he was moving around and then there he goes. Oh, he's back. Okay. here we go uh go full screen on the dodo go try yourself a tushy right now at hello

tushy dot com slash 83 weeks so eric let's jump into uh what if again vincent hart has a great question here he says uh what if wcw never got brett heart but got sean michaels instead would you bring him in as a member of the n w o would you reform the click or did you have him as a solo wrestler, and let's get real specific on timeline, Eric, too, because we know that well, Vince McMahon first makes the approach to Brett Hart in September, September 22nd, 1997 and says, I can't honor your contract. Fast forward six weeks or so, the Montreal screw job happens. Had it gone the other way where Sean was showing his ass, he refused to put over Brett Hart, he wouldn't do it, and they screwed Sean Michaels. And now,

Sean leaves in a tamper tantrum, and he's coming in to WCW. Now, that would have still happened around Starcade 1997. So you're trying to at least finish your sting versus Hollywood Hogan NWO storyline. But now Sean Michaels is on the roster. What do you do with him? Wow, that's a good one. That's a really good one. I think it would have been a bad idea to do anything other than bringing him into the NWO.

Just, again, people knew the relationships. So, initially I would have brought him in to be a part of the NWO. But Sean would have been a lightning rod in terms of creating dissension within NWO? I would have done it right away. Don't get me wrong. We're talking about something that would have happened six months from then after Sean came in. But because of the relationship and because everybody knew of said relationship in their past history in WWE, it would have made some kind of a jealousy angle, envy angle. It would have made that really, that's, again, low hanging fruit that would have been the obvious that would have been the go-to not that it would have been the best idea but it would have been right there and there would have been a lot of ways to play that out between Kevin and Scott and even Hall again just like with Scott Hall the ideal matchup down the road would have been Sean and Hall but that one would have taken a while to get

there, but that while to get there could have been part of whatever timeline we could have developed that would put Sean into the NWO initially, create some kind of moment where he's no longer a part of the NWO or maybe is and gets a shot that perhaps Kevin Nash wanted. Perhaps in this story where, Sean Michaels joins the NWO becomes the guy. You've got the NWO together doing NWO things, and Sean would have added a lot to that, obviously, particularly where his head was at that time.

I would have come easy for him. And we could have had a lot of fun with that because of chemistry between Scott, assuming, you know, alcohol didn't get to be too much in the way, but the chemistry between Scott and Kevin and Sean and Xbox was huge, and he could have had so much fun working with that. But can you imagine a situation where, you know, Sean comes in and NWO agrees, Big Kev, you're the man.

When we get control of this thing, it's about you taking down Hogan eventually. Not out in the open, a little conversation between Scott and Kevin maybe or the group, or maybe it would have been more subtle than that. Who knows? we've got to figure it out a way to to plant the seed that eventually it's going to be Kevin and Hulk only for Sean Michael somehow slip in there and take it and maybe that's what creates that was a catalyst you know we're really just writing on the fly here and I'm not sure it's a good idea as I'm hearing myself say it but my point is that there would have been so many opportunities like that

based on the backstory that the audience was very familiar with between all four of those It could have created some great opportunities. A lot better than Brett Hart. I didn't create any good opportunities for anybody, including Brett or us. The only guy that made out on that deal was Vince. He didn't have to pay the $20 million that Brett wanted. And he opened up the door to do a lot of other great things. I ended up inheriting this guy and it didn't work around for me.

It didn't work out for Brett. So, yeah, I wish it would have been Sean Michaels. What the hell was I thinking? I shouldn't try it. Jay Alito has a question. He says, what if Eric Bischoff was hired in an executive role and creative by WWE in 2002 in addition to his on-air role as GM? That's interesting.

You know, we know that you tried your hand at this at 2019, but in 2002, if you would have been offered an office spot, you think it could have worked out? Could you have lasted? Could you have weathered the waters there, swung amongst the sharks? No, no. I mean, it's, look, one thing I did learn, you know, in my moment in, in WWE back in 2019 is not being critical of anybody. In fact, obviously, man's walking around $8 billion in his pocket. So, So, who am I to criticize, right? But Vince had his way of doing things, his way of operating.

He had his, he created his own culture within the process of creative in WWE. I would never have fit comfortably into that process just because our personalities are so different. And the way I approach things are 180 degrees different than the way Vince McMahon approached them. And I'm just talking about day-to-day stuff. Now, I'm talking about quality of ideas or anything else. But my approach to creative and Vince's approach to creative would have been an absolute clash. It was in 2019. And when I say clash, it sounded like we yelled back and forth at each other. it's just there was this a penetrable one it wasn't just me it was everybody else everybody included which is probably why his own daughter didn't last too long his head of creative

or triple h didn't last too long in that spot not that he was ever i don't know if he was or wasn't his spot his head of created but he was certainly involved for a while you know there's a reason why i'm sure there's a reason why road dog cracked in fact i know there is and i've never talked to him about working for Vince McMahon and his way of doing things would never have this is just oil and water and when I say that it's not like I would have stood up and quit because I didn't even in 2019 thought cross my mind a couple times but it's not that we get up and quit it's just that's not how I get the best out of me like if somebody wants to get the best out of Eric Bischoff in a creative environment it's got to be kind of a fun environment and I'm when I say finally we're throwing airplanes at each other and smoking weed. I'm talking about just the energy and the vibe. You have to have the ability to sit in a room with really creative people that you respect and throw ideas around without having someone to say to you in front of everybody else.

God damn, that's third grade shit. It's not very motivating. It doesn't necessarily take you. You said, all right, well, if you don't like that, how about this? Usually it's, and I saw it. I mean, I saw it. I experienced it. And not, he didn't talk to me that way, but I experienced it.

And she said, man, you kill the room. You're going to kill the whole room. Everybody will sit there and they'll nod their head and he'll pretend they're trying to figure shit out. You ain't get japped out of anybody, not quality. People throw ideas out that they know you're probably going to like because they've thrown you like they've thrown you versions of that same idea in the past and they know at least they're not going to get humiliated because it's close to something else that you approved a while

ago that's kind of how it was head writer had PTSD I don't know I don't like telling me these kind of stories but I'm not going to name names but there was a guy who was my head writer and he was the hardest working guy. He was so hardworking. He lived very close to headquarters, Stanford. He worked. He had to work 16, 18 hours a day, seven days a week. And at one point, because he would always fly commercial,

I thought, man, if I can make this cat's life easier, because I knew how much he worked. I knew he lived right next to the office. He said, man, these guys take it on so much, I've got to give him some kind of a break. So I called him into my office. I said, ex-name here. Why don't you join us on the plane? Fly with us back and forth so you can get home.

You don't have to spend the next day flying home all day long because that's a drain. That was a little shorter than me and bald, and I could see the beads of sweat. Foreman on top of his head, I'm not exaggerating, broke out into a cold sweat just by suggesting he'd get on the plane. So, yeah, I would have never fit long term in that world, not because I couldn't, but I knew I couldn't do it and deliver what I was capable of delivering because it was not fun. but not fun at all. There's nothing fun about it. Jimmy Kelly wants to know, what if he'd been hired by the WWF when he auditioned early in his career?

Of course, we've all seen that famous audition tape, Eric, I think that was 1990. Does that sound right? Yeah. Now, that could have worked because at that time I was so,

I was just a sponge. I was just excited to be in the business. I didn't have a lot of preconceived, I certainly wasn't thinking about creative at that time. My dream at that point in time was, man, I don't know if this wrestling gig doesn't work, and burn can't keep me on and I don't get this gig. I'm going to, I'm going to try to be a game show host. As I heard game show host, like you work one day a week, you tip five episodes,

so you just gang shoot your episodes for the week. One long day, probably 12, 16 hours, and you got the rest of the week off. I want to be a game show host. If I can score that kind of gig, So that's where my head was at. And had I gotten that job, I probably would have fit quickly into the culture. It would have been a lot easier for me to become WWE-I as a talent, especially a young talent. It had never been in management.

Yeah, man, I would have been, I would have been right there with him. Tony Patrico says, I know it's probably been said a thousand times, but what if? Truly, what if the shockmaster didn't trip? Well, that character have gotten over. The people turn on the silly helmet on match number two. Or does he win gold? This is a fun, what if? Listen, he's a big fellow.

He saw he had a lot of success in the WWF as tugboat. And of course, he became one half of the natural disasters with John Tenta. He had a nice career in the WWF. You know he's related to Dusty's got power. he's a big guy this is the era of the big men in an alternate universe i could see tugboat having a decent little run in wcw one not but the shockmaster well it changed all that is there any chance the shockmaster could have worked in wcw had he not fallen or was it a bad idea even without the fall forgive me does see but yeah it was pretty bad idea

I think the fall was the wrestling God's version of mercy. Oh, yeah. Let's just let's put this up. It's misery. Well, I'll tell you what is a good idea. And that's Factor. Eric and I are big believers in Factor and we have been for a long, long time.

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But factor something we can all feel good about, right? So I want to throw something out here for factor. If you go to my website, Ericbishop.com, and if you register today, it's free. We're going to cost you dime. but when you register, put your email address in, just type in factor. And I'll know that you're responding to this particular conversation.

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Because I know for a fact, now I'm just so you know, I haven't talked about this before. I'm going to do it now. I made up my mind last May 27. My birthday is May 27. So when I turned 69 years old, I kind of looked at myself in the mirror. And I went, this didn't work. You know, I've got a new grandson. I want to be around.

I want to be active. I want to just be around sitting on a bench, drooling on myself, watching my grandson play baseball. I want to be out there playing. I want to be out there hunting and fishing with him. There's a lot of stuff I still want to do. And it's not going to work like this. So that's when I got really serious about my diet.

And as I said, I started out for the first six months on keto. And here was my biggest chance. challenge. When you make up your mind, all we're hearing about now is health and what the ingredients and food are. There's just so much information coming at us about our health in general because technologies, you know, it's as fast as everything is accelerating. People don't realize that research and information, the world in nutrition is exploding as fast as the world of technology because they're hand in hand. Anyway, when I was on keto, I immediately, started feeling better, but here was my downfall when I traveled. Or if I had to work late.

Now, traveling, that's a different conversation. But if you're a husband and a wife, or even if you're single, you've got to get up at 6 o'clock in morning, jump to shower, drive to work, through full day work, get home. Last thing you're going to want to do is spend time cooking. You're exhausted. Oh, and guess what? It gets worse if you have kids. It gets more difficult. These meals from Factor, because they have the keto meals, make it a lot easier because my weak link is when I would get tired because I was rushing all day long or do you get out of work till late or to get off the phone too late. I was just too tired to prepare a healthy meal. So what do you do? Eat a pizza. Go get a burger. Fast food. It's horrible for you.

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register, put in your email address and just type in Factor and I'll reach out to you personally. Or just go try Factor. at factormeals.com slash 83 weeks 50 off. Use the promo code, 83 weeks 50 off and you'll get 50% off your first box and free shipping at factor meals.com slash 83 weeks 50 off. Hey, Cleveland Screamer wants to know.

What if the Iron Sheep broke Hogan's leg and took the title to Vern in 1984. Now that's an interesting one. What if Hulkomania never really gets kicked off in January of 84. That's not to say it would never happen, but the timeline would have looked a little different, Eric.

Oh, that was one of the best ones yet. Wow. That's, just remind you, I'm flashing back to Brad Lajukian's book, the six-back, where Brad kind of covered this area

or this timeline of WrestleMania, covered in his book, go find it. It's called the six-pack. Brad Bluduckean. I'm not even going to try to spell it. The first couple chapters of that book were all about an incident.

And Brad did a really good job of painting the picture in a very detailed way. So you can kind of envision just how much was at stake for WWE, WWF at the time, and certainly for Hulk Hogan. that is a profoundly interesting question what would Hogan have done at that time he'd have had to go back to Vern if he would have gone back to wrestling at all

that might knowing Hulk that now I don't know what he was like that I know what he's like now I know what he's been what he's been like for the last 25 or 30 years and I've known him. But, you know, he was younger back then and he was a different person. So I don't know how he would have reacted, but the whole code and I knew, once he decides he can't trust you, then, you know, yeah, he'll work with you, but it's going to cost you

so much. So I don't know that he would have gone back. I also don't think he would have gone back to Vern either because that would have been, you know, he would have come back with his tail between his legs. And that's also not Hulk of it. Really hard to say. I would imagine sheik's career would have been over. So he would have lost out.

He didn't take it burns 100 grand, but that doesn't last long. So yeah, the whole world would have been different. I don't know if the trajectory of WWE as we know it today would have been any. It's like at all still would have happened, but not on the same timeline. Interesting to think about. Ronan Pro has a question. He included a clip to YouTube. I'm pretty sure this is the interview with RJ City for Hey,

EW, where he sat down with Glacier. My man RJ City talked to Glacier and they addressed the longstanding rumor that Rob Van Dam says once upon a time he was supposed to be Glacier. I think you and Ray have debunked that. But what if that really happened? what if Glacier was portrayed by

Rob Van Dam and allegedly there were a lot of names considered for that character and I think you liked cryonic and that's the reason they went with the cryonic kick as the finisher

but one of the names on the list allegedly there's two words stone cold and this would have happened And before someone starts calling themselves Stone Cold Steve Austin, they're still the ringmaster on the other channel. So in an alternate universe,

we have a guy showing up like a video game character, but it's Rob Van Dam, not Ray Lloyd, and we're calling him Stone Cold. If there's a stone cold running around that is a carbon copy, I'm sorry, a tribute.

to Mortal Kombat Sub-Zero, and it's Rob Van Damme. Boy, that, that's a weird timeline in 1996, is it not? God, that hurts me. That's such a cool idea. It causes pain even today. It's so good. Would that have not been awesome? Of course, everything would have been a little different, but different in a more fun way.

And maybe that's what that character needed because we took it pretty seriously, too seriously. The audience just wasn't willing to accept it as a serious kind of wrestling presentation. But if there would have been a little touch of tongue and cheek, in you and no, that would have been fun. And Steve Austin wouldn't have been stone called. So that wouldn't hurt business, you know, if you would have had a crystal ball. But that's just, it just ended up itself. forget about Steve Bustin in and of itself that's a pretty fun idea I wish I would have thought of it but let's be honest Rob and Dan was never like if it was part

of it a conversation it wasn't with me and I was pretty hands on on this one so I don't know where that came from Aral Enema says what if the ultimate warrior actually worked out in WCW and he eventually feuded with Scott Steiner which in turn would have led to the greatest set of promo battles and history. Is there an alternate universe where the ultimate warrior thing catches fire and it works? Who could you have imagined him being programmed with after Hogan? I'm kind of stuck on Steiner and Warrior.

I can just, you know, it's funny because we, I was just at center stage, but, and not that warrior, you know, he didn't make his debut and center stage. But I'm thinking back to Scott Steiner back then. And then I'm trying to imagine what it would be like sitting down in a dressing room with those two and listening to them trying to lay out what they each wanted to do. And there would inevitably be within a short period of time early in the conversation, it would have gotten very electric. I just can't imagine Scott Seiner and Ultimate Warrior working together. I don't think you could have ever gotten it, no matter how well it worked out the process

for Warrior and the ability to process the way Warrior did for Scott Sider. It would never have happened. It would be like somebody coming in and trying to apply for a lot. mortgage that we spoke Cambodian just unless you've got a Cambodian translator there it's not happening so that couldn't have happened but going forward look again because I'm a big believer in backstory even there's just a kernel of it take that kernel and creative we get to make shit up here take that little bit of truth or fact and blow it the fuck up and and then use that as a platform to launch your story from.

And that would have brought to mine Ultimate Warrior and Steve Borden, right? They go all the way back. And we could have had some fun with that. I guess if Warrior would have worked out, that would have been a fun one to put together because Steve obviously knew Warrior and could help figure out a way to get it done. That would have been a fun one. Aldo says, what if Eric actually left Turner and WCW in 98 when he saw the writing on

the wall different when Eric's life have been? That's an interesting question. You know, you've told the story before that you first realized, hey, Houston, we got a problem. And that was in 1998. WCW is enjoying their greatest success ever at that point. They're the biggest wrestling company in the history of the world at that point. If you would have walked away right then, obviously you would have landed somewhere in television, but do you think your career would have looked much different?

I mean, is it a regret that you didn't walk away in 98? Were you made worse by waiting a few years? I don't use the word regret too often because I'm pretty happy with where I am right in this moment and part of being here in this moment was everything that got me here, the good in the bad so i don't waste a lot of time regretting shit but i have thought about many times you and i have discussed it briefly one of the things i wished i would have done differently it's different than a regret is at least to me as i wish i would have left in august of 1998 absolutely kick myself in the ass every once in a while over that one i was

I was rocking pretty hard back then. I could go to L.A. and get meetings at any agency I wanted meetings at. There were a lot of opportunities available to me in 98. Truth is, had I walked out of there, I would have ended up in L.A. And more than likely, I would have ended up, I would have ended up in a pretty high profile position, if not running a network cable outlet. And Brad Siegel even, you know, acknowledge that in the Who Killed WCW, that would have been my trajectory. And I could have easily, there would have been, there would have been a couple doors open for me in that role. Maybe not immediately, but within a couple months.

And that's probably what I would have done. That's a regret. Ah, no. Because if I had done that, I might not, you know, who knows what would have had. happen. I'm good with what I got. I'm good with where I am. I want more, but I, but no, because that would have, that would have been if I would have jumped off the 98, if I would have jumped off WCW and 908 and jumped into another pressure cooker, um, I would, I would, I would have enjoyed it, had a different approach

of life in the day. I would have enjoyed it. And I would have lasted there a couple of years, but I don't know what, I don't know what that has taken out of me, to be honest with you. Maybe nothing. Maybe I'd still be doing it. Alan is with us and he says, what if Eric had purchased ECW instead of Vince? So that's an interesting idea. We know you were trying to negotiate and get control of WCW.

And well, that doesn't work out because when there's no television guaranteed, it's time to move on. The ECW could have been had for a lot less than what you were putting together capital for in order to buy WCW, but they didn't have a television deal with the benefit of hindsight, would that have been an opportunity if you could have purchased the ECW assets out of bankruptcy for a song and then bided your time until you found a television outlet? Or is that cart before the horse and throwing good money after bad, Eric? There was no revenue there.

There was a reason why ECW went bankrupt. There's no revenue. There's no TV. There's no revenue. Their LiveGate revenue was insignificant in the big scheme of things. So it's not an, what, what would you buy? To answer the question, I would have not bought it. I would have run the, I would only not have been interested in pursuing it.

I would have run the other way if it would have come my direction. Just because there was no asset value there. uh, Brian wants to know. What if Eric never did a cruiserweight division? Boy, now that's a big what if, you know, I know that, listen, the internet is going to take issue with this, I'm sure, but if you're not showcasing that, that style in a big way, does the WWF ever embrace it? Absolutely.

Absolutely not. you know that we all know people who know Vince well who know that this was the antithesis of Vince McMahon's philosophy on wrestling absolutely there's no doubt about that anybody that argues that fact is just entertaining themselves making themselves look pretty fucking stupid in the process but they're just entertaining themselves because we all know what Vince's appetite was when it came to talent. And it wasn't 5 foot 7 inch 145 pound Mexican guys. Anybody out there disagree with me?

Nope. Go to Eric Bishop.com. Tell me why. You just got to be real. And you got to, you know, no matter what your feelings are. And I know there's people out there listening to the show, which is always interesting to be. that people that are out there listening to the show and I get pissed off at what I say.

I don't know. It says a lot about people. But I put the cruiser weights. I put the luchadors. I brought the Japanese junior heavyweights. I brought them in not occasionally, like others had done before me. Paul Heyman brought in Ray Mysterio before I did.

But he didn't have a national television platform in prime time. He didn't give Ray the explosion. that I was able to give him and to create the awareness for guys like Ray and Eddie Guerrero and Chris Benoit and Dean Malico and all the luchadors and on and on and I know it's just how like me put myself over but I really don't care if I had not have used the cruiser weights as effectively as I did not just giving them an opportunity I gave him a platform to expose their style of work to a world that had 99% of them had never seen it before, maybe 95%.

And I venture to say, had that not happened, you would be saying to yourself right now, Ray, who? Eddie, what? Who are those guys? And like I said, I know people are going to take exception to that, but have that it. well something i think everybody needs to have that is the perfect gene i'm a big believer in this product and i know eric is too because the perfect gene has redefined what genes can be no more crushed nuts or saggy diaper butts just pure soft stretchy perfection life's too short

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Please support our show and tell them we sent you, fuck your khakis and get the perfect gene. Let's do another one here from Steck Money Records. What if you didn't get a deal to do the tapings at Disney MGM, where there any other options for places to do tapings at for syndicated shows? That's interesting. If you didn't set up some sort of a half-ass residency with MGM, where would you have done it, Eric? I don't think I would have.

I mean, Universal Studios was an option. They had studios there as well as did Disney MGM studios. So there were two soundstage locations that were brandable. Keep in mind, the reason why I went to Disney was, yes, partly to facilitate a more cost, efficient way of producing our syndicated show because it was becoming less and less relevant as it related to our budget in terms of revenue. We weren't getting as much for it as we really needed to keep doing it. So I had to find a cheaper way to do it. And I also wanted to brand WCW. I wanted to get WCW in the minds of ad buyer and Conrad, you'll

understand this. In the minds of ad agencies, because they're the ones that recommend someone like WCW to their client, someone like Chevrolet, for example, right? Well, in order for them that ad agency to feel comfortable recommending you to their client because they're going to be judged by that client on the quality of opportunities that that agency brings to the client. So if you're an ad agency and you're someone like Eric Bischoff comes, just say, hey, I've got this thing called worldwide wrestling and we're on all these different

cities and here's our ratings and I'll make you a hell of a deal. He's got to have or she has to have the confidence to take this opportunity to their client. WCW, no one in their right freaking mind back then would have felt comfortable bringing WCW as an opportunity to their clients. I had to change that. I had to change the percent. of WCW, because it wasn't like WCW started the first day I showed up. WCW had been around. WCW had a track record. WCW had an impression amongst ad agencies and clients.

So it would have taken a while to get there, is I guess what I'm trying to say. I made the decision to go to Disney because, yes, I wanted to save money. I wanted to take advantage of efficiencies, right, across the board. Shooting, you know, 15 shows in three days is a lot better than going out the door and shooting 15 shows over a seven-week period, assuming you can do two a week. So that's what I was trying to do. And there were only two options. One was Disney.

That was my first choice because everybody knew the Disney brand. and as weird as it sounds to say Disney and professional wrestling, especially back then, that's what made me want to do it more. Universal in WCW still would have worked. It would have been close, but it would have been as good as Disney, in my opinion. Because Disney and wrestling, it would have forced ad agencies to go, what? What?

What? What? And WCW and Disney, I got to look into this. It would have at least helped us open the doors a little bit. It wasn't like, I just need to go shoot these shows as cheap as I can. We're already doing that. But Disney was the ultimate solution. Not ultimately the best end of the story,

but for what I needed at that time, it was perfect. Ari Rosenbaum says, what if Fern Ganya wasn't stuck in the 70s and put the belt on Hogan? Where would that put the AWA and Vince? Of course, I think the rest of the story is he also needed to pay Hulk the merch money. You know, Vernet started selling Hulkomania t-shirts and he wasn't paying Terry anything. So obviously there's more than just putting the belt with him, but the, the, the, the spirit of the question is, What if Vern had hung on to Hulk?

What do you think, Eric? I'd probably still be living in Minneapolis working for Vern or in one way, shape, or form. It would have, that's one of those what ifs that at least I, because I kind of know a little, at least I have a perspective on where the business was back then from reading Brad Bladjukia's book. He does a great job, you know, from talking. DeVern, you know, when I used to work for him. I don't know, man. I don't think we'd be watching WWE.

If we were, who knows? It's too hard, you know, too much time has gone by. I think no matter what people think of Vince McMahon, he is relentless, focused, and would not let anything getting in the way of building WWF in his vision. But without Hogan, I would have been much more difficult. How much more difficult? I couldn't even guess. But just knowing a little bit about the financial history of WWF,

again, based on Brad's book, Six-Pack. I don't know. Maybe he would have found a way. But without Hulk Hogan, I'm not sure it would have been anywhere near the same timeline. here's a fun throwback one be foats junior BFO afts junior whatever says what if WCW never received the Monday night T&T live spot could the NWO have worked on Saturday night taped programming now that's interesting you're still going to start the NWO you're still going to bring over Scott Hall and Kevin Nash but there's no nitro in this scenario the

A show is WCW Saturday night. Does it stand a chance to still work? No. And this is where it gets, you know, professional wrestling, acting, music, it's not science, it's art. And art is very, very subjective. I think that's what, Jeff Jarrett says something similar to that. art, creative, whatever, it's all the same thing. Whatever is you able to conjure up in your imagination and turn into a product,

whether it be a physical product or entertainment. It all comes down to art. And with art comes perspective and instinct. That's what separates. That's why it makes professional wrestling so hard. On the surface, professional wrestling is pretty freaking easy, right? get two guys, two gows, whatever, don't like each other, go in there and have a scripted fake fight. Yeah, see a lot of that, unfortunately.

But it's also a platform, if you really understand it, to create emotion, not just a match in the ring, for no apparent reason, as exciting as it might be to some, If you can create emotion, I'm not talking about, yes, storyline, it's energy in the crowd, it's lighting, it's the smells, it's just everything that you're capable of sensing at a live event, a football game or a wrestling match. When you get the right amount of people in that environment and they've got a heightened interest in what's going on to the point where they're getting emotion, about it, cheering, booing, throwing stuff, whatever it may be, you're creating an energy

not only in that venue, but you're creating an energy with your viewers at home. It's not the same energy, not exact same energy, but you're getting their attention. You're very subtly, and this was my goal. You talk about this more detail in another show. I'll give you an example. You know, the nitro parties, the nitro parties, that was my idea. And it was like, I knew I needed back then, this is a perfect example. I knew I needed back then a way to create a pop culture impact, not a wrestling impact. If I'm focusing on a wrestling impact, I'm only focusing on the audience I already have. I'm preaching to the choir.

So if all of my ideas were for my wrestling audience, that's exactly what I'm going to get. Maybe a lot of them, maybe half of them, whatever. But I knew if I could create, I hate to say pop culture, but it's kind of big. But if I could create an energy where people would go, did you see what? I know this sounds crazy, but that,

You got to watch this stuff, water cooler talk. That's what they used to call it. But the way you do that is a lot of it has to do with your environment. That's why I said Conrad, so many times, and I probably drove Jeff Derrick nuts a couple times because he and I had a different take on this. But in TNA, when I was there, great talent. You could say what you want about the creative. If it was a roller coaster, it was up and down, but there were some great stuff in TNA.

Before, Paul and I got there and afterwards, if you're really objective about it, in terms of the quality of what we're doing, especially when it came to Aces and Aids. Bully Ray talks about it much more eloquently than I can't. He's right. And I used to say it doesn't matter when I was trying to convince Panda, who was the holding company for TNA at the time, When I was trying through Dixie, because I never really like talking to them, but with Dixie, it's like you've grown as far as you're going to grow, no matter who you bring in, there is no bring in another guy. And I specifically said, you could get your dad to get a helicopter and drop the undertaker right down from the sky into the center of the ring. at Universal Studio Soundstage number two or whatever it was.

And you know what? The place to go nuts for about two weeks. And then it's like, eh, it's Undertaker. See every week? See these three or four hundred people sitting around me? They see them every week too. It's not that big a deal. That energy also communicates to your audience.

So if everything would have stayed the same in the NWO story, everything we did, good and bad. All you do is put it in center stage on Saturday nights at 605 Eastern. Does anybody think we would have created that Monday Night War pop culture phenomenon? No. I don't either. And Vince wouldn't have done it. Vince only did it because I did it.

Yeah. Vince was taping his shows every two weeks. One would be live. one will be tape. That's the syndicated show format. Only you do two shoot. You shoot one live three tape if you're doing syndication with live. That change going to weekly live television inside venues that looked exciting. Even the Mall of America, what I wasn't sure if WCW could draw flies if we all rolled ourselves in horseshit on a hot summer day in a a parking lot of Mall of America, I'm not sure we could have attracted flies.

At least I wasn't until that day. So even, and which is why we went to Mall of America, because I just didn't think we could draw. If no matter what I advertised, I didn't think it would draw. This WCW was so ice cold at the time. It didn't mean anything to anybody. And that's what I knew I needed to do. I needed to make it feel important.

But if I would have gone to live TV, if I wouldn't have been putting on, they used to call it pay-per-view quality matches. But I was putting on matches that nobody ever saw before on television. That was a lot of the dirt sheet, right? He said, oh, he was giving his stuff away. They're going to be out of business in 20 weeks. No, the business just adapted to what I started. And now we see it every week.

Again, not pay-per-view matches necessarily, but you know what we're talking about. There's no squash matches. Yeah. Not like there used to be. So I take a lot of credit for things that are probably not as clear to just a wrestling fan. But if you go back and look at that time period, and this is an easy one to put myself into, if I'd have done everything exactly the same way, but did it at center stage, it would have been hot for about three months.

He just wouldn't have been able to sustain the level of energy it needed to, to hold the television audience. And then Vince wouldn't have done it. It's what I sat back and laughed at me for going live every week. Ha, ha, hell, send his business for 40 years. You don't know that? But it worked. And he followed suit as well as, like I said, putting the higher quality talent in those matches. Oh, by the way, I went from four pay-per-views to six.

Guess what he did? I went from six to eight. Guess what he did? WCW did a lot of things right. some of them are obscure to the to the viewing audience because they're more strategic and tactical than anything else and that doesn't get a lot of the headlines but I am sorry it's long-winded way I'm just having fun with this thought absolutely would have lasted three months and it would have WCW would have inevitably reached the same fate it just would have happened a lot

sooner. Here's a more modern, interesting one. You're going to have to put your thinking cap on for this one. Don't immediately go negative. God damn it. Leeland Patterson says, what if Vince didn't step down? I believe the worst thing to ever happen to AEW was Vince leaving. Do you think if Vince hadn't left everything would still be the same as it is now?

Or would the trajectories of both companies stayed the same, but they were at the time, which was WW trending down and AEW trending up. So it's more of a question about, I think, how does this affect AEW more than anything? But I do believe that that's a fact. Like Vince stepped aside and the WWF's business started to pick up. I mean, we no longer had chaos at the top. We were able to form a plan and maybe stick with a plan more so than we could have. have under the Vince regime, but that's my perception from the outside looking in.

You were there for a cup of coffee. What the trajectory have changed? If Vince doesn't step aside, does it affect that EW the way it seemingly did? No. And I understand the nature of the question or the reason for the question. Because there are our fans out there probably will like you, Conrad, who we all want AEW to succeed. It's not a question.

We just have different perspectives sometimes as to why it's not. But nobody wants AEW to not succeed. Let me make that fucking abundantly clear for you knuckleheads out there that just can't seem to understand simple shit. That disclaimer out of the way. There's a portion of the audience, and perhaps this question came from one. that are looking back and go, man, I wish things would have been different for, I wish things are different or we're different for AEW right now.

I wonder what would have happened because back then, you know, AEW was hot and Vince was there and, you know, we had more people were interested in AEW and all that is true. I'm not suggesting that it's not true. I'm suggesting that it was temporary at best and inevitably the trajectory you have today would have not been altered whether Vince McMahon was in the business or not. Let me take it a step further. Does anybody out there listening who hate my guts every time I mention AEW

because they take everything personally? But is there anybody out there who thinks that somehow Vince McMahon staying in WWE, not leaving, would have affected any choice that Tony Kahn has made since back in 2019. Does Vincent Creative affect AEW and Creative? Tony's vision of what he sees for his company? I don't think so. I don't think that's logical. You may want to entertain yourself or keep a conversation going with a yeah, but what if?

And that's fine. It's part of what we're doing here. get it. I dig it. I'm actually having fun doing it, believe it or not. I think I would. When I knew we were doing it, it's like, oh, fuck. I'm going to be like dragging myself across my driveway and my underwear with two feet of snow. But Tony is doing exactly what Tony wants to do. And I don't think what Tony wants to do is, could be possibly affected by whether Vince McMahon still had an office at headquarters. you have some talent things that were a little different yeah maybe but i think we're reaching a little

too hard to find a better version of this story do with time tony's learning on the job guess who else learned on the job eric bischoff and i have been on the job a lot longer you know i know tony thinks he's the smartest guy in the world maybe is i don't know I know I'm not and it took me a while to begin to get a feel and I never really fully I wish I knew then what I know now let's put it that way

and guess what the only thing is going to fix it is time I'm kind of made up my mind I'm washing my hands of it all I'm not going to get emotional amounted anymore for not to talk about it anymore to be honest but Tony is going to do

what Tony is going to do because that's how Tony is wired and whether Vince McMahon has an office in Stanford or 100% creative control or no creative control or opens up a company on his own, which is a rumor, that could affect Tony Kahn's decisions. Tony Kahn's decisions are affected by Tony Kahn. That's it. That's why that's, and I'm sorry, that's, and I don't, hopefully that's not me being, you know,

pissed off answer. It's as honest as I can be. I don't think it's a pissed off answer. I thought it was interesting. He said, you kind of don't want to talk about it. Do you not want to talk about AEW on the program moving forward? I mean, there's something really interesting to talk about, but you know, just on a week, first of all, I don't watch it anymore. I can't. It's just not my thing. And it's not even about AEW. I don't watch WWE anymore either. Now, I'll drop in, especially as we get closer to WrestleMania. I will drop in. And the closer we get, the more time I spend dropping.

But, you know, I don't record it every Monday night, Friday night. I'm not going to change my habits on Wednesday to watch wrestling or Friday or Saturday or any other day. I hear, and that's a great thing about social media for people like me. I follow that pretty quickly, pretty closely. I know what's going on based on reporting and I know who to listen to and who not to listen to and who's full of shit and who's not. So it's really easy for me to go, ooh, that sounds really good. I'm going to go check this out. And I go back and, you know, pick it up wherever I pick it up.

That's how I'm consuming wrestling. But again, keep in mind, I say that because I don't think all people are like me. I don't think very few, there are probably very few people like me who are really only interested in the business of the wrestling business, except for a few times around WrestleMania or if there's something really special. Then I'm, then I'm tuning in like a fan. But otherwise, if I really. read something about the business of the wrestling business, a growth opportunity or something, you know, important in my world.

And I'm all over it. And I'll talk about that. But I don't want to just talk about ratings and shows because I don't, I'm bored. How's that? Well, I bore myself when I do. Let me keep you not bored this weekend. You know, All Star Weekend is almost here. And prize picks is the best place to win cash while you're watching your favorite players.

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So Ricky Starks, although he wasn't advertised, he can't say brought the house, certainly took advantage or benefited from, I think that may have been one of the highest ratings that show's ever done. Well, congrats to NXT and everyone involved. You know, you mentioned earlier. There's been lots of speculation, lots of rumor and innuendo. about Vince McMahon starting a company. Should I say the quiet part out loud, Eric?

I mean, I don't. It's all up to you. There's been lots of whispers. You've heard the same things that I have. I don't know what's real and what's not. But allegedly, Vince McMahon's people have made contact with people who have experienced shooting wrestling.

maybe cameraman and allegedly i don't know if this is real or not but the rumor mill the whispers say perhaps fox is holding a spot wow and i think to myself self that doesn't sound real that sounds like bullshit as my dad would say yes sir larry i find myself watching the super bowl on sunday and my phone starts blowing up Vince McMahon is that at the Super Bowl. And I'll say to myself, self, when is the last time I remember seeing Vince McMahon in a football game for a league he didn't own? I don't remember ever seeing or hearing that. And wait a minute. Was the Super Bowl on Fox? Because I think it was.

Now, I'm not saying anything, but I am saying we've heard rumors that Vince has a studio and that he's hired a bunch of four, former WWE executives, and then we're hearing rumors that he's had conversations with cameramen who have experienced shooting wrestling, which seems awfully specific. And if he's just shooting traditional entertainment, why do you need a wrestling cameraman? And we're hearing, well, maybe he's got a spot with Fox and that sounds like bullshit. They just got out of the WWB business. And besides, doesn't, doesn't Fox own Tubey, which is going to air evolve?

that's a WWE product it can't be wait a minute are you saying Vince was that a Fox trans Super Bowl hmm I don't know Eric what say you is there smoke to this fire or are people trying to wheel all of this in and try to put on their tinfoil hats where do you land on all of this air I would I would I would be the latter not the former I still I just can't wrap my head around it and I did it it's entertaining his health Oh, what if? Because we all know, right? We're going to be sitting here on our show talking about it, how crazy it is. It's fun to talk about crazy shit happening that you never expected. But I still can't wrap my head around it. And I've heard the same things. You've heard some of them.

I've heard some different things than maybe I've even remembered to share with you. Nothing big or I remember to share it. But. Yeah, little bits and pieces, comments here or there that kind of make you a, hmm, but part of that is because I want to go, hmm, what if? Because, hey, it's fun. But I just don't see it. There's too many, there's too many things that make sense in this rumor. make sense you've connected some dots that are definitely dots and worthy of connectivity

but it's not the complete picture because there's a couple of the things that would have to happen that I just can't imagine happen I can't either I can't imagine that it's real but we just keep hearing these whispers in the background and hey did you hear and it's like if I'm Vince McMahon this would be the last thing I would be be interested in like yeah well you're not you're not Vince McMahon and either am I yeah which is one of the reasons why I think it's a possibility okay he it's one of those dots remember when I said there's dots here he's going to take a lot of dots got to connect them all well the first big dot like starting dot is Vince McMahon

would he really want to do this fuck yeah doesn't mean he can pull it off or he or he would allow himself to try necessarily make the decision to try But in terms of what he would want to do, because he's not going to, he could have a really cool yacht. He could be, he could have his own little island down in Bimini or wherever else he wanted an island. He could live an amazing life and never have to experience one moment of stress. Again, and going to do that, you might do that. I would definitely do that. He's not going to do that.

I don't care if he's 98. If he's still drawing breath, he is going to be driven to conquer something. Here's the missing link for me, Conrad. To be just really blunt about it. Do I really believe there's a scenario or Fox Network would lay down that big of a bet on another wrestling company?

I just can't wrap my head around that part. I can't either. You know, if it didn't work with WWE, why would make me think it would work with a startup? Like, now granted, they were looking for a return on investment and maybe he's going to be much more

affordable now. I mean, or or because now this is, this is another dot I could connect. What if Fox is a partner and not a partner. and not a distribution partner. Okay. They got skinned.

Now what if they're building their own version? And they're going to own it. Okay. And they're going to own it. And they're going to have it internet. So now you got me leaning into that. What's your fucking tinfoil hat on, you son of a bitch?

I'm not there yet. Because that's a giant freaking leap. But, but I'm not going to totally discount it either. That's what's fun about wrestling. you know, what's possible, what, I mean, listen, that is right now probably the biggest what if. And although most of us would say, what are the odds that's going to happen? I've got a two-screen experience going on right now. And Linda McMahon is in her confirmation hearing for the Secretary

of Education right now. And she's going to get it. And never did I imagine that would be happening right now either we're in some sort of an alternate timeline simulation right now anyway so we'll keep our fingers crossed that uh i mean listen i for one am hopeful there might be another major professional wrestling spinoff or i mean startup that would be fucking awesome hey and by the way josh hennie hey josh how are you keep up good work with your son you're kicking ass here in wyoming tearing them wrestling mats up but uh josh hennie says Lyndon McMahon has been confirmed. Okay.

So there you go. Education. So, wow. I mean, I don't even know if that's going to exist in a few weeks. I mean, there's lots of things.

The CFPB was a thing two weeks ago. Who knows? Dee wants to know, and this is an interesting question. We're going to get back to our what if topic. What if cable had come along earlier than it did? Maybe when Vince Sr. was in charge.

How would the landscape? look different? Well, I mean, I think, respectfully, I think Vince was playing nice with others. He was sort of honoring the gentleman's agreement between these imaginary territory lines. But if cable had come along sooner, it might not represent the same,

it certainly wouldn't represent the same opportunity for Vince McMahon. If you don't think Vince Senior would have taken advantage of cable, Is there another promoter out there that you think could have? That's what makes what Vince McMahon created and achieved in WWE and turned it into the entertainment behemoth globally that it has become why a guy who is one of the most, if not the most powerful man in Hollywood, is running it, Ari Emanuel is because Vince had a vision that the only one of those guys that I knew, really knew was Byrne, but they were all very much alike.

Bill Watts, okay, I knew him too. Actually, yeah, I know more than, I see I try to put it out of my mind. Bill Watts, Vern Gagne, all of those people who grew up. in and became extremely wealthy in that territory system would have never they just weren't visionaries hate to say it they didn't they weren't driven every day to make something bigger and better they were promoting and making money and doing a lot of successful things in their territories but none of them were thinking outside of it well i say none of them nobody that i've ever heard of or had have come into contact with including jerry

or it. Who else in that mix? Bob Geigle at one point. I mean, it's not like I didn't come into contact with many of these people, but they weren't, they just didn't have the vision.

That's what, and it's neither did anybody else. Vince McMahon was unique in that sense that he saw wrestling is something bigger than professional wrestling. And in the eyes of guys like Bill Watts,

who I knew way too well, Vernegania, who I was proud to know pretty well, and others, they would have not looked at cable as an opportunity. They would have looked at it as a threat. Interesting. Chris wants to know, what if Brett never left, a few possible items, not blaming Brett, but Owen would have never become the blue blazer again.

Dave, he wouldn't have broken his back in WCW. Sean wouldn't have heard his back in the casket match. Rick Rood wouldn't have left the WWF. Maybe he would have gotten cleared to wrestle on Raw. you know, it is interesting to think what if Brett would have stuck around respectfully, it probably wouldn't have changed WCW at all, but it could have changed the WWF and a lot of other people's lives.

Yeah, I think, I mean, I think, I know Brett Hart's got a lot of great fans out there and he's earned them. He's one of the greatest technical performers in the ring at a very, very high level. I'm not taking anything at all away from what Brett accomplished in the ring or what his capabilities were.

However, as I like to say, I just get excited when I say, however, who's, whose fault is it that Brett put a $20 million price tag on himself? Who thought that was a good idea? It was an astronomical ask, one might say, pretty freaking greedy. One might even say he knew what he was doing, and he knew he had Vince over a barrel, so he was going to squeeze every nickel out of him he could. And he did until he didn't. But had Brett settled for a reasonable contract, I guarantee you Vince would not have let him go.

He just couldn't hang with 20. 20 million. He couldn't. He wanted to. He couldn't. but a reasonable ask that would have made probably Brett still the highest paid person on roster

Brett would have never stepped foot in WCW. Eric, I don't think it was a $20 million ask. I think it was a 20 year deal. I think that's where the 20 comes from. I don't think it was 20 million. How much per year, you know? I don't expect it.

It was a lot more than in the active years, but the ambassador years, like the back nine of that contract, it was like half a million a year or something well either way either way brett put a price tag on brett yes and it was a price tag that vince couldn't afford brett had the option to sit down with vince and say okay let's redo our deal that's interesting charlie thrower says what if brett said yes to vince's pay cut six months from montreal montreal he had the money had brett stayed would that still happen

would Austin have been allowed to become the megastar? Would Sean still have been in the casket match that destroyed his back? Would we even get Mr. McMahon? That's the big what if. Wow. That's a giant one. Wow. Because if Brett stays, he doesn't screw him.

We don't get the Brett screwed Brett promo. We don't get Mr. McMahon. So if Brett stays, maybe Mr. McMahon doesn't become a character. Maybe Raw never beats Nitro. in a weird way it works on a lot differently if breath stays that is crazy you know what's crazy about it as either one of those moments within that whole butterfly effect any one of those things is not out of the question yes this is it like some wacky you know what if you know empathetical that you've got to be high to even really engage in this is something that

easily could have occurred. Brett could have. Had I never met Brett the year before. If we didn't have that relationship, you think Brett would have come over? No. I don't either. And if we wouldn't have had that one meeting at the restaurant near the Santa Monica airport, we wouldn't have had that one meeting. And Brett and I got to know each other. And I'm not regretting that. But I don't make a sound like that at all. I was very happy to meet Brett and proud of it. Um, still have a couple of gifts he gave me afterwards. But he wouldn't have come. And then that list of things that was the catalyst for this question,

Rick Rood wouldn't have left, HBK and a casket match, all the things that, you know, I think there were five things on that list. Conceivably never would have happened, but Conradd you knocked it out of the park with, we wouldn't have seen Stone Cold Steve, likely,

would not have seen Stone Cold Steve Austin or Mr. McMan. man component of it, which is, I think, what got Stone Cold Steve Boston really off into orbit. Wow. That's a really cool question. I appreciate that one. RCS 88 says, what if

Brian Billman didn't have the Humvee accident in 96? Man, you want to talk about an interesting character, an interesting mind for the business, and we know his life was cut way too short in October of 97. But without that Humvee accident, maybe we don't have that reliance on painkillers and we don't have some of those same troubles

and we would have been able to wrestle and you know this is a guy who not too terribly long before this was seen as a real innovator i mean his matches with jush and thunder liger were light years ahead of time and then we saw him reinvent himself and he became this crazy loose cannon character brian pilman a healthy brian pilman who never has the accident man that changes a lot of things doesn't it that would have been wicked cool i just watched a clip i think it was one of wwees most controversial moments and the scene where steve austin breaks into brian and melany's house yeah brian pulls out a gun i watched that scene last night and i i didn't even think about the fact we're going to be doing the show but

Brian Pilman was off the charts good. Yes. He, even seeing him last night, made me realize how under, and I've always appreciated Brian. I've always thought he was a next level kind of talent, but I watched that scene last night.

And I'm thinking, man, there's, there's very few people that had that magic that Brian had. Kind of like Scott Hall. If you could have kept him straight, And drugs, you know, it's not like they wanted it to end the way it did. They got sucked into it.

It was in a lot of people did. Pink killers were like candy. You could get them anywhere. Doctors were giving them out. FDA said, sure, take all that stuff you want. It's not addictive. Cut to where we are today. And Brian and Scott got caught up in that like a lot of other people did.

so I don't mean to sound critical of either one of them is what I'm trying to say. However, if you could imagine the world without those issues for either one or both of those guys, Scott Hall was amazing. He had an amazing mind. He knew how to, he just knew he had an instinct that you can't teach. That's the best way to say it. And Brian Pillman was right there. with it.

Maybe more so in some ways. So yeah, what a different world that would have been. Can you imagine in this hypothetical Brian doesn't have the accident. So he's not going to lose his life in October of 97. Can you imagine if and when he jumped back to WCW? I mean, when he comes back into a nitro NWO era of WCW,

with the work to shoot promo. I mean, we saw when when Sean Waltman makes his raw debut fresh off of a WCW run and he does his work to shoot promo against you and Hillman had been trying to do that for a while with this loose cannon thing. And if he came back in and we're trying to lean into the reality, the work shoot promos he could have had about WCW,

about Vince McMahon, about the screw job, about everything. It would have been wild. man. Brian Pillman in an alternate timeline has so much success during the attitude era, don't you think? This is it, if it could have played out the way you just, you know, quickly laid out, we'd be talking about Brian Pilman Mount Rushmore type of conversations. Yeah. Fascinating. T.W. Cool T says, what if Goldberg went to the WWF instead of

the power plant? What he still have become as big of a star as he became? now that's interesting you know we've talked about some of these what ifs before like what if kurt angle came to wcw because it almost happened i mean he was at least interested and rick said no go to vince McMahon but goldberg you've talked about it before here on the show you were supposed to follow up with him and it slipped through your fingers you forgot you almost didn't wrangle him he almost did go to the w wf i don't know that they would have leaned into the streak and built him that way and as I'm saying that out loud I'm reminded well they kind of did it with the ultimate warrior but it didn't really work when they did it which is why

they wouldn't have done it with Bill so what do you think what does Goldberg's career look like if he goes to Vince instead of the power plant I don't think it would have I don't think it would have lasted long it that transition it was hard enough For Bill to walk away from football and step into professional wrestling, it was emotionally hard for him. I don't say hard. It wasn't comfortable initially, the thought. But Bill had a lot of friends in Atlanta,

was able to stay living in Atlanta, wasn't wrestling in an OVW show. I don't see it. now if they would have had a performance center back then cool but what was going on back in i'm sure they were they either were they were with cornet or they're with ovw or ovdw's cornet or it was at one point but he would have been coming up the way dave batista did i don't think bill wouldn't put up with it he wouldn't have he wouldn't have tolerated that stage of his development if it would have been in WWE, because it would have been much more demanding and uncomfortable

because he'd be away from home. Really fun, what if here from Scott. What if macho man came to WCW, but Hogan never did. Would macho have become the guy and therefore inserted into that NWO spot that Hogan was in? But that's interesting. Let's play that through. if you're doing Savage Flair as sort of a return from

WrestleMania aid at Bash at the beach and then you come back and Joe Lewis and you do or Halloween Havoc rather in 94 you do the Flair retirement angle if you just flop Savage in to the Hogan spot now Savage is going to feud with the Dungeon of Doom and all that jazz and here comes Hall and Nash and it's going to be Savage who turns did that work could that be a hit, or does it have to be Hogan? No, it didn't have to be Hogan.

Is it a hit? If Hogan was a home run, this would have been a triple. Because the heel turn had never been seen before. With Hogan, but we had seen Savage at the heel, yeah. I see what you're saying. Yeah, that makes sense. It just wouldn't have had the shock value. It still would have been good.

The story would have still been the story. But it wouldn't have been as big of a story. And the chemistry wouldn't have been the same. Chemistry was pretty unique with Hulk and Kevin and Scott. Because there was this, there was like this, these two trains that are running side by side on two separate tracks, but side by side. And most of the time, man, they're just side by side.

They're pulling in the same direction. But every once in a while those tracks would cross and just bam, you get this collision that you'd have to clean up, the mess up. And they get back on a track again and they're running. The chemistry between Randy would have been much different. I'm not sure it would have been better or worse, but the energy would have been much different. The chemistry would have been much, much different.

Fascinating. Let's talk about another one here. This is from Nick Newcomb. He's got another fun Hogan question. What if you had convinced Hogan to not put beefcake in the main event spot at Starcade, who would you have replaced him with in the masked man angle? So as a reminder in 1994, I believe, we're going to main event Starcade in Nashville with Hulk Hogan versus Brother Brutai.

This mass man who kept attacking Hulk Hogan. was his best friend, Brutus Beefcake. But if the great reveal had been someone else, much like years prior when we saw Sting and the black scorpion angle, the internet, well, I guess this wasn't the internet back then, the wrestling magazines back in 1990 were certainly speculating. Dirt sheets.

They've got to be talking about the ultimate warrior. That's what we fans wanted the black scorpion to be. Of course, that was never going to happen. He's the world champ on the other channel. whatever. But if we're going to repeat it and we're going to say, all right, it's Hogan versus a masked man, but it's someone he has history with, it's someone from his past, who would it or who could it have been, if not beefcake? Would it have made sense for it to be savage or warrior or someone else? I mean, it would have made sense for it to be warrior.

that kind of I mean and it would make sense for it to be savage don't don't be wrong yeah it would have made sense because there's backstory I mean you've got some moldy clay or not moldy clay but you have molding clay that you could start to play with and try to make some shape out of so it wasn't like you didn't have anything to work with there I don't know that it would have been that good because it would have been so obvious because of backstory um and same with warrior she said warrior would have been a lot more unexpected at that point so that could have I guess worked but if I didn't if we're not picking from outside of WCW who could that have been at that time oh man and I'm struggling because oh what about Lugar well you can put them

under a put a bag over his head if you want you still know it's luger right um if you could have camouflaged the lex up i could have been kind of cool of course that was you know he wasn't available he was what was he doing he was in w w i think he was on a bus doing the uh that was the arson yeah not he's tagging with a british bulldog here and i think we agree that man these whole mass man angles they're pretty stinky but You got something stinky. Can you throw some Mando on it? Mando's whole body deodorant that's safe to use anywhere on your body,

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What if Vader never left WCW? Could he have fit in the NWO era? Now that's interesting because it makes me wonder in this WCW versus NWO war, even though he was a heel, he would have had to be on the WCW side of things, right? He would have. And it would have been a great turning.

opportunity for him because Vader was a big lovable guy some of the time but if you could if you could have you know teddy buried him up just a little bit you didn't have to be a you know white bread baby face so to speak I mean he could have had that edge could have stayed dangerous but better baby face that would have been really fun I was you know it's funny this question came up a couple days ago I was thinking the same thing I was flying home from from Atlanta I was thinking And because I was in Atlanta and center stage and a whole conversation with Brock Anderson, but it's like, man, what a waste. I wish that would have turned out differently.

I really wish that would have turned out differently because I think Vader would have ended up better off. We got to talk about Ted's question here. He says, what if Vince had bought out JCP instead of Turner in 1988? So let's talk about that for a minute. What if Ted Turner didn't have an appetite for wrestling? He was no longer in love with it. And, you know, when, when Jim Crockett realized, hey, we're having trouble, we're going to miss some payrolls.

We got to do something. If he couldn't find a buyer and Ted Turner, the next likely person he would have reached out to would have been Vince McMahon. If Vince would have bought Jim Crockett promotions in 88, what's that look like, do you think? We know that he does eventually buy W. WCW, but when he bought WCW, so many of the key talent were unavailable because they were on a different set of contracts. So they could sit at home and continue to get paid.

But if Vince would have bought JCP in 88, that really didn't exist. So that whole group of guys, the horseman, Dusty, the whole shooting match, they would have had a choice, go work for Vince or go kick rocks, because there's not a lot of other opportunity in 88. No, that wouldn't think that would look like. Let me ask you, though, Conner, and I honestly don't know the answer to this, or I wouldn't ask you, were any of those guys under contract? Yes, yes.

But before the sale happened, everyone had to be under contract. Like a guy like Rick Flair, I mean, Turner would, allegedly, the stories come out in years past. Turner was not going to purchase Jim Crockett promotions if they didn't have Rick Flair under contract. So very quickly, they put together a new deal. Rick got the new deal and then the company sold. Rick was upset for years with the Crockets because he felt like no one gave him a heads up. And in Rick's mind, you're not going to have to pay it anyway.

So don't worry about cutting me a fair deal that your family's got a stomach. You're selling me off. So pump me up. Give me some more money here. That didn't happen, of course. But in an alternate universe, they got to have somewhere to work. This is going to look a lot different. Wow.

I yeah I can't even wrap my head around that well I mean if Turner wouldn't have bought Jim Crockett you and I wouldn't be sitting here talking right now that's right I mean and my whole life would have been different I might still be selling meat out of the back of a truck in Minneapolis so I don't know man that's a that's a that's a big what if but it's again another one of those it's not a stretch is it it it's conceivable that it could have happened that way. Seth has an interesting question. What if social media, the way we know it is today,

what if it would have existed in WCW days? Would it have helped WCW? Would it have hurt WCW? What would the effect on social media as it exists in 2025? What effect, if any, would that have on WCW, do you think? I'm really comfortable of saying I would have been all over it. I just would have been all over it. I was so committed to live and spontaneity in everything that I did,

especially as it related to Nitro. I used to tell my team, creative team, spontaneous combustion. When you sit down to write, we sit down to bounce ideas around this room. Think of spontaneous combustion. What can we do that feels like? it is it feels like an explosion that surprised everybody that was like that's the vibe that's the energy i want in the show so energy i want at least once or twice in a two-hour show what do we do what are some ideas let's go so i can with a lot of confidence say that if i had this thing

available to me 30 years ago my balls were bigger my attitude was a little more aggressive just a little bit not much more just a little bit uh and i had nothing to lose so yeah i would have been it would have been i'd be big balls screw that god listen to you big balls that would that would have been me. DRW wrestling says, what if you couldn't get Lex for the first nitro? Who would have been in that spot? Now,

if you're looking for a big surprise, and obviously we don't have everybody's contracts right in front of us, but is there a name that you view at like a similar level as far as shock and all reactions that if Luger wasn't available and you had to plug someone else in, is there a person out there like that that comes to mind? Well, anybody, you know, Undertaker at the time, Brett Hart, you know, Sean Michaels. Oh, man.

Can you imagine on that first nitro if Brett Hart is in that aisle? That would have been wild. I mean, yeah. And any of any and all of the above, um, in terms of shock value. Yeah. Um, yeah, arguably, you know, but Hart might have had what might have registered a little harder on the Richter scale because that that was one that nobody would have seen coming although nobody saw

Lex coming either no likes had come off such a big bush I mean I don't know but yeah there's others that we could have popped in there you know hypothetically of course Jeff Jarrett had walked down on the WWF earlier that year I know you didn't see him at that Lex Lugar level in 1995, but being fresh off such a monster push and then disappearing and then popping up on the other channel, that was kind of a Eric Bischoff M.O. once upon a time. What was the timing on that, Conrad? When did he walk out? He walked out in July of 95. So him showing up for you in late August 95 early. Yeah. Joe Lawson says, let's say Bill Goldberg never got into WCW or even wrestling, probably other than DDP, maybe.

Kevin Nash, who would have been the guy in WCW in 98, 99, that's interesting. If we're not building Goldberg in 98 and we don't have Goldberg as one of our pillars, if you will, in 99, it's got to be DDP, right? That's what I immediately gravitate to. He had so much momentum at the time. Any other choice would have been silly. And it would have been he and Kevin down the road back and forth. somehow, some way. But it had to be DDP. He was he was surfing right at the crest of that wave

and doing it really, really well. So yeah, it would have to be DDP. Last hypothetical this week before we put a button on it. Jeff Stewart wants to know, what if Thunder was a hit and gave Turner two ratings monsters on two different networks, Turner exec still be so anxious to kill WCW. So yeah, in an alternate universe, if thunder is a hit the level of nitro. Does it change anything? Absolutely not. The only thing it would have changed would make,

would have been that it would have made the executives who had been fighting for years to try to find a way to finally pull the plug on WCW, it would have only made them more determined to do so because now you're giving up four hours of prime time. What does that mean? Why would anybody care? Because there are people that work in networks like TNT

who get paid a lot of money to bring scripted content to prime time. Or you'd have a guy like Harvest Schiller that maybe wanted another night for sports. So you've got competing interests for that real estate in primetime television, many, many competing interests. You've got your own network executive that knows that he or she are building their careers based on those choices.

That's how you become a really big studio executive or network executive is you have an instinct and an eye, in a feel for where the audience is going, not where they've been. You have a feel and instinct to where they're going, and you have the ability to shape your schedule to zero in on that target. All we would have had was instead of two hours of highly successful programming, we would have had four, which means some of these, really high-paid executives would have even less of an opportunity to do what they wanted to do

because Ted Turner was doing what Ted wanted to do and what Ted wanted to do didn't benefit them. If you're an executive T&T, Ted's decision to put Nitro on Monday nights took opportunities away from you. You sell advertising for Turner Broadcasting and all of a sudden on Monday nights, you're no longer the drama channel. you're the Nitro Channel. It makes it harder for you to sell. So there were so many segments of Turner Broadcasting who each had their own motivation for seeing WCW go away. Even though, you know, the, the ad sales division completely separate from the program,

well, it's not completely separate. but there's a dotted line there. But you've got ad salespeople. All they care about is, you know, what kind of bonus check they get at the end of the year for selling ads on the network. And then you've got programming guys over here that are trying to build their careers

based on the next, you know, network TV hit. So they want a shot. It's a very competitive environment. And like I said, instead of two hours, having four hours, it would have just made people dig it even harder because it wasn't about the money. And that's what I can't get people to understand.

People are so determined to buy into this dirt sheet narrative that's been out there forever, despite the fact that we've heard from Turner executives, people like Brad Siegel, and who was the other cat that ended up working at WWE? Oh, yeah. I forget. You know what I'm talking about? These are people that were operating in a much higher level than I was as the president of WCW. I didn't get invited to their parties.

They never asked me to go out to lunch. Didn't call me and ask me about my kids. Stu Snyder. Stu Snyder. We've heard from Stu Snyder. We've heard from Brad Siegel. Guy Evans wrote an amazing book about it. We've seen so much, but yet the dirt sheet narrative is off.

The ratings hadn't been so bad they'd still be around. The ratings were actually pretty freaking good compared to everything else they were doing. It's they wanted the real estate. and the amount of money that WCW was making didn't matter to them. Well, we're going to be talking about what matters next week because we're going to be talking about selling wrestling television. What goes into it? The pitch, the presentation, the ratings, the business of wrestling on television is our topic next week.

We want you to join the conversation over at 83 weeks.com. If you haven't already, be sure to hit that subscription. button turn on the notifications bell so you know the next time we're live and I greatly appreciate our opportunity today to talk about what ifs in the comments below we want to hear from you what are your other what ifs we can keep doing this as often as we like because it is fun to sort of think about how if you just move two millimeters one way or another panic and change everything that's what we're doing here on 83 weeks and this was fun today and I'm looking forward to this weekend, Eric.

We've got a big AEW show down under in Australia. And we've got the NBA All-Star break. Alabama's playing Auburn and they're one and two in basketball, Eric. Can you believe Alabama's a basketball school now? What the hell's happening? What's the damn good thing? Because your football side's guts. All right.

We'll see you next week. On 83 weeks with Eric Pishaw. Tax season is here, which means you've received or are experienced. Expecting that tax refund any day now, and you're thinking about what to spend it on. How about a new home? With savewithconrad.com, we're helping renters become homeowners every single day, and it's more affordable than you think. You don't need perfect credit.

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