83 Weeks with Eric Bischoff - Episode 374: Stephanie McMahon Saved The WWE

Episode Date: May 16, 2025

On this episode of 83 Weeks, Eric and Conrad discuss the legendary career of "The Natural" Dustin Rhodes. From his debut match for Jim Crockett Promotions to his rise in the WCW rankings, Dustin Rhodes was made for greatness. The road to legend status was not a smooth one for "The Natural" and the guys cover it all. Eric shares stories of his experiences working with Dustin you won't hear anywhere else. Plus, Eric and Conrad take a moment to honor the historic life and career of ECW original Sabu. On this episode of 83 Weeks, Eric and Conrad covered all the latest news and notes in professional wrestling plus answering LIVE questions from our audience on 83WEEKS.com . Eric shared his thoughts on the rumors of a rift between Vince and Stephanie McMahon, his thoughts on Dominik Mysterio's comments on CM Punk, How the world views Hulk Hogan, and the legacy left behind by the hardcore icon Sabu. All that plus so much more on this edition of 83 Weeks with Eric Bischoff. CELEBRATING SABU | Sabu Stories with ECW Legends: https://www.youtube.com/live/4dUDxQzbFSM   CARGURUS  - #1 most visited car shopping site. Shop from millions of cars to find your best deal. https://www.cargurus.com  THE PERFECT JEAN - F*%k your khakis and get The Perfect Jean 15% off with the code 83WEEKS15 at theperfectjean.nyc/83WEEKS15#theperfectjeanpod FACTOR - Eat smart with Factor. Get started at FACTORMEALS.com/83weeks50off and use code 83weeks50off to get 50% off your first box plus free shipping. BLUECHEW - Visit https://bluechew.com  and try your first month of BlueChew FREE when you use promo code 83WEEKS -- just pay $5 shipping. SAVE WITH CONRAD - Stop throwing money away by paying those high interest rates on your credit card. Roll them into one low monthly payment and on top of that, skip your next two house payments. Go to https://www.savewithconrad.com  to learn more.

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And if we can't help you save some money today, we won't waste your time. It doesn't cost a thing to look and you've got nothing to lose except some crazy high interest rates on those credit cards. You know you can do better. Start saving money today for your family with my family at save with conrad.com and I'm a less number 2129 equal housing lender. Hey, hey, it's Ron Rand Thompson, and we are live at 83 weeks.com. We're going to be talking all things, Dustin Rhodes, and to help us have this conversation,

we couldn't do it without the Hall of Famer himself, ladies and gentlemen, Mr. Eric Pischoff. Eric, how are you, man? I'm doing great. Doing great. Up and Adam early. It's beautiful here. time of year, decent weather and Mrs. B is in L.A. with our daughter, taking care of

being this, having a little bit of fun. So I'm playing solo, me and the dog, just having a blast. We are going to be talking on all things Dustin Rhodes today. He is our topic. We are live on YouTube. And if you're not hearing this live, well, you can next time. Just go hit the subscribe button and turn on the notifications bell at 83 weeks.com. That'll take you right to our YouTube. It's totally free. We want you to hit that subscribe button. Turn on the notifications bell. So you don't miss us the next time we're live.

And you can ask Eric Bischoff anything. Eric, I want to get us started with, uh, and a bit of sad news, a member of our little wrestling podcast family and of course, the larger internet wrestling community. All thoughts and prayers are on Jim Ross right now. The voice of wrestling revealed yesterday on social media, that he's been diagnosed with colon cancer.

he expects to have surgery to remove that cancer in the next two weeks. But obviously, you never want to hear anybody going through this struggle, but it hits even harder when it's someone that we fans grew up with, and you and I are fortunate enough to call a friend. Yeah, I heard about that. And I was, you know, I posted something last night and I remember exactly what I said, but it was to the effect of, I'll be praying for Jim for sure. I did this morning, as a matter of fact.

But I also know that Jim is tough as hell, and he's just so freaking stubborn. I said, Jim, you're too tough and you're too stubborn. Don't let the bastard win or something to that effect. And if you read my book, Controversy Creates Cash, I was doing the process of writing that book, I lost my mom to cancer. And it was her second round. She had a round. She thought he got through it.

And then it came back about six months later or so year. And one of the last times I saw her when she wasn't in the hospital, the last time, I said, did you, mom? Now, my mom never swore, but she had wicked temper. She never swore in front of us kids. But when she occasionally did, like very rarely, favorite word was you bastard. So I said, Mom.

because I was trying to fire up and want her to throw in the towel. She said, Mom, don't let the bastard win. She got to sat up. But I said the same thing to Jim, man. You're too tough and too stubborn. Just don't let the bastard win. A lot of thoughts and prayers with our friend,

good old J.R. He's down in Jacksonville Beach, of course, which is home to the Mayo Clinic so we can rest easy and confidently in knowing that he's going to get the best possible medical care. But I know he needs his friends and family rallying around him. And if you're inclined to do that sort of thing, throw one up for the voice of wrestling, our good friend, Jim Ross.

You know, since you and I got together, Eric, last, you were doing a little bit of traveling last week and we weren't able to record our regular podcast. But the following day, last Saturday, W.W.E. presented the backlash paper view from St. Louis. It is, of course, the hometown of Randy Orton, so it makes sense that it was perhaps his last dance with John Sina in the main event for the undisputed championship. We also would see Gunther really take Pat McAfee behind the woodshed. His chest is still probably screaming.

Dominic Mysterio picked up a win over Pinta. Jacob Pahoo won the four-way dance for the U.S. championship. he retains, and the women's intercontinental champion, Lyra, actually beat Becky Lynch. So it was a star-studded affair in St. Louis. I did see some people who were non-plus saying they felt like it was a paint-by-numbers event. But man, it feels like they just doing gangbuster business everywhere they're going. Did you get a chance to catch any of backlash? What did you think of John Sina and Randy Yorton, perhaps for the last time?

Absolutely didn't have a chance to catch. catch it. But one day, since I can't really comment on backlash, one thing I do want to comment on and you brought up Dominic Mysterio. Yesterday, I saw a tweet that Dominic posted. And he was, he targeted CM Punk in that tweet. And I don't remember the tweet well enough to try to even paraphrase it. But I actually sent an email, or yeah, tax, I should say, to friends of ours in WWE putting that tweet over

because Dominic used it. I don't know if it was part of a creative strategy like if people are saying, hopefully this is the case. There are people saying, look social media is an extremely powerful tool we can use it the right way, we can use it the wrong way or we can use

it in a way that doesn't matter either way. And there's so much fertile ground social media. I mean, there's so much potential If you could figure out, and I'm not suggesting I have the answer, I don't. But somebody should, if I was in that business, I would, I'm using social media in a really cool, authentic, organic way to support storylines. And my text was something to the effect of,

I don't know if this is part of your creative strategy. If it is, I love it. And if it's not, I love it anyway. and the last time I've seen somebody really used social media effectively was Becky Lynch back in 2018, 2019. She wasn't using social media so much to get a storyline or advance a storyline or I think in Dominic's case to launch one or at least start planting the seeds for one. That's how I interpreted it.

It was really, really well done. And it kind of blurs the line. It gets us into that funky, real is this? Could this be actually true? Because the way it was presented. And if that's the case, that's off to Dominic. And for everybody else that's in the business, now, social media can either work for you or against you. And there's psychology to it, just like there's psychology in the ring. And if you can wrap your head around that and start playing with it and getting a feel for using psychology to advance whatever it is you're doing,

with your character or your storyline and doing it in a way that feels authentic and doesn't feel like somebody wrote it for you I think there's a lot of potential there and when I saw that tweet hopefully this is a strategy because of it is it just opens up such fertile ground to really support

or create stories if it's done well it was actually an interview you that Dominic Mysterio did where he said about see him punk I think we both just mutually hate each other equally quote I effing hate see and punk I don't know what it is about that guy I don't know if it's because he looks like Eddie Munster and I want to kick him in the effing face for the fact that everyone is like he finally did it

he finally got his WrestleMania main event good for you old man 60 years old it took you what 45 years to accomplish your goal it's about time it's what they say about babies when they have tantrums you give them what they want so they shut the f up i'm pretty sure that's what happened that's why he needed a favor from paul hayman there's a reason he's never been in the main event you call yourself the best in the world i don't need to go around calling myself the best in the world people know i'm better than the best i don't need to call myself the best in the world it's 70 years old.

People do it for me. You have Sina talking about me. J.B.L. A.J. Stiles. Legends talking about me. I don't need to do it for myself or say these things about me because people say it for me. My work speaks for itself. Here you go with C. and Punk. I could go on this rant forever.

I need to stop myself. So it's clearly him angling for a program with C. and Punk. But it's done so well that no one's, going to throw the flag, Eric. This is great stuff. No, I guess I didn't pick up that it was from an interview because I saw it on an ex post

and assumed incorrectly that that's what it was. But this was a post based on an interview. It still works. Yes, it does. And it's so because it came from an interview, obviously it was authentic and didn't feel like somebody wrote it for him. That's the worst thing in the world. Yes.

You have somebody else writing your stuff and posting it as you because it just doesn't act the same. And people know it. But that was so well done. It's such a great opportunity. But there were two, you said the same, or he said the same thing twice. You repeated it there.

I don't need to do it for me. I don't need to do it myself. Others do it for me. That's a really interesting take. I didn't even notice it yesterday. And I'm not going to mention a name here, out of respect. But a good friend of mine, hugely successful in a rustic business. One time I pulled them aside and said, quit putting yourself over because wrestlers are trained,

especially ones that have been around for a long time, get yourself over, get your camera time. You know what I mean? You got to get yourself over. It's true, but how you get yourself over is the other part of the equation, right? And what I said to this individual was stop putting yourself over. Learn to let other people do it for you. They want to do it for you. This guy was getting good reactions.

I mean, great reactions, but he worked so hard drawing attention to those reactions and putting himself over. He was not intentionally taking away the fun of it for the fans. You're going to put yourself over. Why do I have to? It's a really good point Dominic made there. He made it twice, it suggests to me that somebody's been talking to him because it's a true thing. You know, getting yourself over, it's more than just stacking up winds or doing,

you know, crazy stuff in the ring. That's part of it, obviously, unquestionable. But it's not 100% of it. The other part is as much psychology as there is in the ring. And the minute you figure that out, this individual figured it out. And it changed him almost overnight. in terms of the way people reacted to him. He just quit putting himself over and let the audience do it for him. That's off, Dominic. You got your shit together, bud. Somebody else who has their shit together is Brian Stroman.

I can't believe this is real, but we were just talking about his release and now we're talking about his return. Earlier this week, we saw a report that said during today's NBC Upfronts, it was announced that a new WWE produced series starring Braun Stromen would debut. on the USA Network this fall, despite Stroman's recent release from WWB. It's called Everything on the Menu with Braun Strowman. Everything on the menu with Braun Strowman is a new food format with a big appetite.

Each episode joined WW legend Braun Strowman as he eats his way across America while on the road for WWB, ordering everything on the menu and trying to get down every last bite. Everything on the menu with Franz Strowman is produced by WWE Studios and bright north studios listen i think uh the internet was was disappointed largely when they saw that ron stroman was no longer going to be a part of wb e but hearing that hey he's still got some income coming in he's still going to keep his name out there and he's still using the w wm and working on w w projects this isn't the hard break perhaps that we all thought it was i for one am glad to hear that brons romean is still under the w pt i'm anxious to see that

format because I love good food shows. And I've been, for years, I've been, you know, when I have three time and just, you know, thinking about random things. I often go back to a format that Jason Harvey and I created, Jason really more than me, this one, because Jason was working on our behalf with Food Channel. And we're looking for all kinds of cool new formats, right, the Food Channel. And we came up with one called Food Fight. And it was essentially, you know, two teams of wrestlers, you know, competing with their dishes and, you know, audience gets to make the final, you know, call to the winner and all that. But just bringing that wrestling energy to it and the banter and kind of the promos and all the other really cool stuff that wrestlers are capable of doing. So I love that idea of tying wrestlers into a food format.

So I'm really anxious to see this and happy for Braun. man i i don't know that this is a this is kind of an upward lateral move yes because this now he's reaching a different audience he's reached the wrestling audience and he's had whatever success or whatever he had there which was fantastic where he wouldn't be in the position he's in but this is a different audience which means he's going to have an opportunity to grow as a talent and get some experience doing something different, you never know when those opportunities can bring out the best of your character and you learn to use that character in a different way

and it can take you in a million different directions. So I would be really excited if I was brought. I'd be kind of relieved because now he's competing for a role, so to speak, or success because the show has to succeed if he's going to. but it's a different kind of of competition so I'm excited for you don't even know the cat I mean it is man versus food but now it's Braun versus food I mean but this is just a spin off I mean it is a copycat of man versus food it comes in TV formats you know please call me sure see something that you

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I want to give a shout out to our live studio audience. Again, our topic today is Dustin Rhodes, but we are live on YouTube at 83 weeks.com. I want to give a shout out to Ephron, who's showing some love for the ad-free shows.com family. Greatly appreciate you, Effron. Thank you for being here with us. Rockostone 98 has some well wishes. He says, Eric, I heard about your next business endeavor, wishing you and the

Hulkster the best and hope you both take this opportunity to enjoy each other's company and make new memories together. I guess you're seeing a lot of people. reach out with similar sentiments these days, aren't you? Thank you, Rocco. I appreciate that very much. Yeah, I'm getting a lot of that. I'm getting a lot of,

there's a lot of hate out there in the internet wrestling community. So plenty of that, but, you know, it's part for the course. You go with that. Social media, it is what it is. But I really appreciate the support and what matters is the people that really better are supporting us. And, you know, the amateur wrestling community, not just here, in the United States, and I'm not having to do with it because I'm not dealing with the athletes

directly. Izzy Martinez is and Chad Brunstein, but we're getting calls from some of the biggest names in the world, Russia, Japan, that one was a really interesting one, Mr. Alno. So many, India, some of the greatest athletes, in freestyle wrestling in the world are now coming to us and looking for an opportunity. That's pretty exciting.

That's pretty exciting. Hey, I do want to ask, I've seen you do a bunch of media recently. I saw, I think it was earlier this week, you had a chance to go on the Ariel Hawani show. Ariel is a great friend of the show, probably the preeminent, not probably, definitely the preeminent MMA journalist

and has been, gosh, for 15 years or more. I just always been such a huge fan of his work. I know he's also a pro wrestling fan. What did you think of your time on the Ariel Hawani show? I've done, I don't know how many interviews with Ariel, and I always look forward to them because he does his research. And you get like any, you know, anybody that covers sports that has an opinion,

you're going to have people that are going to disagree with you, right? Some vociferously and aggressively. And many obviously, supporters. But I love Ariel because he does his homework. He's really prepared. And he's, he's very talented guy. I look forward to any opportunity to, to do anything with Ariel, whether it's, you know, sports entertainment or professional wrestling or real American freestyle. Isn't it funny, Fenrad? I have, I got to do like some mental gymnastics every time I talk about what we call professional wrestling today. And what I'm actually building. Yes. Team.

Because what we're building is actually, technically, literally in every way you can be quantified professional wrestling. Yes. But we can't call it that. Yeah. Especially with Hulk and I attached because people are immediately going to go, oh, they're coming up with another professional wrestling company. Yes. No, or not. But in interviews, sometimes I struggle with, what should I call this?

So I'm leaning into professional freestyle. It seems to be rolling off my tongue more frequently. So I think I'm going to go with that. yeah i've wondered about that ever since i i sort of knew the plan because we all know that the pro wrestling we're going to be discussing today is sports entertainment but the rest of the world even though vince really wanted a hammer sports entertainment it never really caught on it was always still just pro wrestling um but i'm glad that you're out there making the rounds and i love to see that you're doing it with hulk hogan i know you guys have been friends for a long time i don't know

what we want to share or don't want to share, but there was a report on Wednesday, or guess it was Thursday, maybe, that the Holkster had back surgery on Wednesday, but he was back to work on Thursday. Is that right, Eric? Is he okay? I don't know about back to work. I mean, he's taken phone calls. He's been on a coach. Now, I haven't been a part of those conversations, but talking to Chad or other business partner this morning, he and Hulk have been on the phone discussing business. And yeah, he went into flew to I don't know where it was somewhere in Florida and he flew in on Tuesday night had surgery early Wednesday morning there's a multiple several hour surgery we're working on

his I don't it's not my business but I don't think he would care at this point I had to work on the discs in his neck but they had to go in through the front to get to him to relieve some of the pressure and damage that he was experiencing in his legs and his hands. And I haven't talked to Hulk since he got out and I left him alone to heal up because they're feeling better. It was a long surgery. It was like four or five hours. And I know how that, I don't know how that feels, but I know how you feel after surgery. I haven't talked to him, but of what I heard from one of the people that works closely with on a daily basis is that coming out of that surgery for the first time and a long time,

he could actually feel his hands he hasn't been able to feel his hands they were functional my god he hasn't been able to he had no sense of feel or touch which is just weird right it's it doesn't seem like that would be a big deal but i can imagine it weird feeling but he came out of that surgery and as soon as he woke up the first thing he said is i can feel my hands which i think it's really cool man we're pulling for him i had no idea it was like that so yeah I'm not going to go into the details because it's not my issue to talk about too much. But if people do, if anybody had a little bit of understanding of where he's at and what he's been going through for now six years, seven years, maybe more, it's so, it's amazing that he's still walking. It shocks me.

He's still kind of a fighter. He's digging in. and he's just number 26 now. Wow. That's a lot of surgeries, man. It takes a toll on you. Let's talk about some good news as we keep the Hulkster in our prayers for a speedy recovery. The Miz was announced as being the new host of the American Gladiators program.

How cool is that? I'm pumped for this, dude. I grew up on it and I was a big fan of it as a kid. I know they tried to relaunch it years later. but if it can look and feel like the original one where Larry Thompson was the referee and Harry Zonka and Mike Adam Lee were on commentary and you had the old school sets and the old school theme music and the old school outfits if we can get as close to that I think they tried to update this brand with the relaunch several years ago

but if we can really lean into the nostalgia Eric I could get I could get excited about this even as an adult. What do you think? There's, there's no, this, I was so excited to see that. And, and let me take you back for a little trip down memory lane. When I first got to WCW, American Gladiators was hot. It was in its first run, syndication, it's in its first run, and it was the new thing. And every, no, I was, I was nowhere near management at that point.

But oftentimes there'd be meetings. with marketing, generally, where they would encourage talent, especially the announcers to attend certain meetings. So you had an idea where the company was going from a marketing perspective and perhaps integrated into your commentary, right? Just to be aware. I remember I was in a meeting, and it was Sharon Sadello, which obviously then it was marketing,

it was Sharon Sadello, and she's talked specifically about American gladiators. And the consensus in the room was that Erica Gladys is going to put the wrestling business to bed. It's, they're going to marry, just permanently very professional wrestling. Keep in mind the whole steroid scandal was going on and there was a lot of other negative things that were happening with regard to professional wrestling at that time. So between the scandal and a softening of the market in general by that point,

And then America gladiators, everybody thought, oh, that's it. And professional wrestling is dead. I heard that frequently during that time. Of course, nothing kills professional wrestling. We've learned that by now or should have. And it ran its course. They brought it back. As you pointed out, a friend of mine actually was the executive producer of that.

His name was Ben Silverman, super successful producer on top of the pile back then for that type of production. And they cast Hulk and Layla Ali. I was on that set quite a bit because Ben was a friend and obviously so was Hulk. And I was in LA anyway, a lot any, you know, on other business. Point is it resurrected it. They didn't really do much to rebrand other than bringing in Hulk and Layla Ali. Essentially the action, the way it was shot, it hit in advance, better lighting, better effects, you know, new challenges, yada, yada, but it was essentially the same show.

And it didn't, it was NBC. You got some great time time placement, but it just didn't connect. I'm really hoping, as you pointed out, you kind of tap into the nostalgia a little bit and connected to the original because there's just a lot of people like you and I who remember American gladiators when it was like the next big thing and let's give it a shot I'd love to see it and it's been tried

I mean rock tried it right he had a show probably five years ago didn't work a lot into it spent a lot of money but one of the biggest names in entertainment at that time

the Titan games it died a slow miserable death so hopefully they find the I don't know what that is, but hopefully they do and wait. Well, I think WWE is trying to find the magic with evolution. It was announced earlier this week on PW Insider that WWE is bringing back their celebration of women with the PLE evolution. We first saw this like seven years ago.

And now they're bringing them back the same weekend as Saturday night's main event in Atlanta. I don't think it's technically been announced. happening in Atlanta, but that is certainly the rumor and innuendo that we'll have a Saturday night's main event and then a Sunday evolution. Of course, this is all going to be happening while AEW is doing their first stadium show in Arlington, Texas. It feels a little competitive. It feels a little JCP and WWE from 35 years ago or more. I'm kind of excited about the idea of evolution being a pay-per-view again. I mean, when they tried this seven years ago,

they had a great women's roster, but I feel like it's even deeper and better now. This could actually be a pretty doggone exciting weekend if you're a WWE fan between Saturday night's main event and the evolution show. What do you think about them bringing back the women's pay-per-view brand that same weekend? I like the idea. I hope it works. I think it will work.

And one of the reasons I think it will work is simply because even seven years ago, So as you pointed out, yeah, they're a great women's roster. It wasn't that deep. Now it's you've got a roster of really great talent and it's pretty deep. So that gives you the opportunity to tell stories and mix and match and not feel redundant if there's going to be more of these coming up. So I think it's a great idea. There's a lot of great women out there.

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83 weeks. Eric, we are live here and we do plan to talk about Dustin Rhodes, but we keep getting interesting questions. AOTV productions is with us here live and he says Jonathan Coachman, who does a podcast these days, claims that Vince has refused

to speak to Triple H and Stephanie for getting him kicked out of WWB. What do you think? again, you and I don't have any inside information. We're not close personal family friends of the McMan's. But at least there is a credible source. I've never known coach to come out and just outright lie. So at least he has heard from someone that perhaps the business of WWB has

interfered with the McMahon family. I guess that's not really that big of a surprise. And you do hate to hear that fathers and daughters are estranged. that report is accurate, right? I hate it. I hope that's not true. Look, since made the choices he made

and has suffered the consequences and I'm sure he's dealing with things that none of us understand. Not trying to get sympathy for him, but he stepped in some shit and it's going to be a while before he gets away from the smell.

It just is what it is. But the last thing you want, all of that and everything else I don't know he's gone through but he put his family through his grandchildren this is just him

and I was really hoping and still do that they'll get through that part because you don't want to lose your family I don't want to say especially but Vince

I never talked to him about it I was pretty close to both of them, you know, when I was in WWE, both the first time and, you know, working for Vince for a minute. He adored her and she, him. So whatever happened, I don't know, I don't know any of the backstory. I don't know who did what to who or whatever. I don't know that. But whatever it was, it's probably for the best interest of the country.

company we really hope someday they figure that out pretty quick because Vince is not you know his mom was around when she lived to be a hundred two or something 99 so Vince is going to be with us for a while but you don't want to waste that time carrying around baggage like that that you inflicted on yourself yeah listen I know that sometimes you know people who comment on wrestling have an opinion about what people everything do in their life Yeah, they do have an opinion about everything. But this, you know, let's set wrestling aside for a minute.

You know, there's a lot more to life than wrestling or WWE. This is a real personal relationship. And, you know, what we saw from afar as fans was, hey man, that's, she was daddy's girl. And I realized that things have changed and there's been a lot of bad things that have happened, but you do hope they can get back to a place of peace. And you know, what's ironic is if you go back and you look at the Vince McMahon documentary, it was, I got uncomfortable for me a couple times, particularly

talking about Jane and, and, and hearing from Shane about, you know, hoping to get his father's approval. Stephanie had all that in. Yeah. And I can't remember the scene well enough or the dialogue, but it's something to the effect of, you know, Vince putting his life behind the business, there's nothing he wouldn't do to protect the business by that I mean

the WWE Shane just didn't have the guts with some people that affect here here's a knife you want to take over here let's see if you that's my reference point there well Stephanie the knife

she knew if you believe and I'm not saying I believe this this is the story that's out there and what Coachman Jonathan Coachman who's a good friend but, like, this is the backstory that he's using as a premise in his comment. If it's true that either Stephanie and or Triple H knew that there were issues that could tank the company, but did what they thought best to protect the company, even if that include exposing something.

Wow. in a way Stephanie did exactly what Vince purported he would do holy shit I never even considered that and it the irony is not lost on me wow so even if it's an honest again I'm not saying I'm buying the backstory but also say it could be true and if it is Stephanie did with Stephanie and Paul who was them together. They did what they had to do to protect the company

because it was going to come out anyway. So, yeah, it's weird. I hope they get, and I just hope they get through it. I was interesting, you know,

the last, a WrestleMania, or might have been at Hall of Fame. I can't remember. It had to be Hall of Fame or I wouldn't have it. Paul really laid his heart out there. He said he loved Vince.

Yeah. And I thought to myself, I was sitting, you know, pretty close to the stage. When he said it, I thought, there's hope. Maybe this is, maybe there's reconciliation in the air. Just as a family, not business-wise. I don't think that day will ever come. No, should it. But family-wise, I thought, man, may this is a good sign.

You know, we're seeing more of Stephanie. She's becoming more comfortable being out in front of public. And, again, I don't know how she's really feeling about all this. but I can put myself in her shoes and really not want to be, you know, consumer facing on television out in public while I'm processing everything she's processing. I would have to process. I would just, I would avoid that. And I see her coming back over the last couple of months.

We're seeing more and more of Stephanie. She's obviously feeling pretty comfortable again. And then I heard the call, you know, comment. about loving Vince McMahon I thought here we go we'll get through this so I hope I'm to stick with that I hope that's the case I think we're all pulling for that I mean it's better when families can find a happy medium and figure out a way to enjoy what little time we all have here left together I guess coach has been busy on his podcast be sure to check it out it's behind the turnbuckle anywhere you enjoy podcasts

and then he's got a fabulous podcast with Carlucci. I think he's got one with Vince Rousseau, too. I think it's coach and bro or bro and coach or something like that. No wonder I haven't listened to it. But you like half of the show, okay? And, and coach also says that this is according to AOTV productions, Vince McMahon, again, this is according to the report that coach had, Vince McMahon is happy to see Triple H's power struggle with the rock backstage in

WWV. Now, I have to admit, I didn't hear the clip, but this is the report. we're seeing live here on YouTube from AOTV productions on YouTube. So since you and I have not heard the clip, we don't know exactly what we're commenting on, but I guess the inference is that what we had sort of wondered and pondered about is this rock and triple H thing? Is it a real struggle?

Are they building towards some sort of story? It looks like, according to coach, he believes it is a real struggle and perhaps Vince is happy to see that there may be. be some unrest with triple h in the big seat how does that report strike you eric yeah without knowing like having a feel and i don't see i need to know but i've got to be close enough to something to at least get a feel for it whether it could be real or not i don't know if this is

true or this is just internet wrestling yeah of drama um here's why here's why i don't take it at face value and would question it. Vince doesn't want WWB to fail. That's right. He may be pissed. You may be hurt if he, if he's capable of feeling that emotion, probably really angry and bitter.

But even with that, you don't want the company to fail. That's your legacy. Regardless of what happened, you built that company. all intents and purposes. They're in, WWE is currently enjoying the roots of Vince McMahon's labor

over the last however many years. Still your company, dude, you don't want it to fail. And I don't think he does. That's why I don't buy that. Nobody wants to see that because it affects business. And ultimately, who knows? I don't even want to make that comment, but your place is doing a pretty damn good job.

Netflix, Mark Shapiro recently, you know, all over pretty strongly to the business community, to the wrestling community, not that it doesn't matter, but when you put somebody over in the business community, what you really say is, his Muckerfather isn't going anywhere. Just so you know, he ain't going anywhere. So I don't think that,

I tend to think that it's not true. Eric, I, um, I don't know what to do with this, but I do think that everyone's going to hang on your every word. We can, we can, we can skim past it, we can edit it out and post or we can just have we're live on freaking YouTube. How are we going to do that, bro? Well, here. I'm old, but I'm not stupid. All right.

Come on now. Adam Clemens, who's been a member here with us at 83 weeks.com for 13 months. So he's a member of the family. He digs what we're doing. proud to be a part of the team. Thank you, Mr. Adam, for being with us. He asked a question that is a bit of a slippery slope for you, Eric. He says, I was at backlash in St. Louis,

and any time there was a real American beer ad in the arena, the place erupted in booze. What do you make of Hulk Hogan's popularity amongst wrestling fans versus the mainstream? I do think this is fair because I think you guys have sort of answered a version of this question on a lot of media appearances. as I know with Ariel Hawani specifically, it does feel like

in the confines of pro wrestling, Hulk Hogan is received a certain way. And I know that there are a lot of Hulk Hogan haters out there who would say, oh no, that's like that everywhere. Well, when Hulk Hogan's beer, Real American Beer, debuted in Huntsville, Alabama last year, he did six stops in a day,

and it was pandemonium. Thousands of people lined up to meet Hulk Hogan, make of that what you will and I know that there's going to be various you know responses to that but in the mainstream outside of this internet wrestling community bubble

Paul Cogan is still a massive star and gets thunderous ovations in certain sections that does feel like in the confines of the pro wrestling space he does get sometimes a different response how do you reconcile that Eric right now

I'd say it's uh it's not surprising because it's part of the discourse in the internet wrestling community. Everybody's talking about it, what happened in L.A., and everybody's got their own opinions about how and why, and it's, but it fits right into the low-hanging fruit, just bottom feeder, unproductive sheep that tend to want to be the loudest people in the room, because that's the the only way they get their hit, dopamine hit. I think that's thought on a little bit in wrestling, and it's kind of monkey see, monkey do.

Sometimes that works for you. Sometimes it works against you. But it's interesting, as you pointed out, you have the wrestling world, that universe, of people that are actively engaged in professional wrestling as viewers and spectators on the internet, and that type of thing. And you see them kind of wanting to be a voice on the show, right?

It's today's social media manifestation of being the sign guy. And everybody's fighting for that attention. It'll pass. It's like they always do. But you go outside of that little bubble. And as you pointed out, it's mind-boggling. the kind of response he gets. It's not only at the fan level,

but even now, because I'm talking to networks, large ones, who are wanting to know how much we're going to be able to use Halt. And it's like, I've got a problem with that on the other, it completely inverse, right?

Because this is real freestyle wrestling, we don't want anyone to confuse us, particularly on the business side. We don't want anybody to confuse us with sports entertainment. This is a separate, this is a whole different thing. Because I'm involved and kind of, how can I put ourselves out there first with a fun video we did? It was a third man. And we knew that going in.

It was a calculated decision. we knew that automatically, in fact, we kind of liked the idea because it swerved everybody. Everybody assumed that Hawke and I were going to launch a new wrestling company, and indeed we did, just a different kind. But we want to really kind of, with respect, of course, separate ourselves from sports entertainment. And I'm kind of concerned, I don't want to see too much Hulk Hook on TV, not because I don't enjoy working with Hulk on TV, but because that will make the job of distancing ourselves,

or not distancing even, separating ourselves and defining our brand differently. Sports entertainment, yes. Sports entertainment. So the more I see a Hulk on TV as a producer, the harder my job becomes. Yes. But yet the networks I'm talking to are going,

yeah, but can we get a special interview in the middle of the show? And, you know, can we get Hulk on a pre-show? And I'm trying, I'm trying to get, kind of sounds weird, but I don't want to overexpose Hulk in the format. Let's put it that way. And I'm kind of pushing it away, but yet, you know, wrestling things. Not to diminish them, but it is what it is. Monkey C.

Monkey Boone. Well, I'll tell you what. When I was a little kid, Hulk Hogan made me a wrestling fan. I wanted to say my prayers and eat my vitamins. And these days, I know I need Factor. Make this the best season yet with nutritious two-minute meals from Factor. Eating well has never been this easy. Just eat up and enjoy.

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but now we've got a wrestling loss that we have to discuss and a real innovator a major superstar a major player in the course of professional wrestling we're talking about the late great Sabu and you've always taught us really from day one of 83 weeks when we first started our podcast podcast venture all those years ago that you felt like in order for WCW to really be competitive with the WWF you knew that you had to be either better than less than or different than and you've drilled that into our heads and I think it's impacted a lot of the entrepreneurs who listen to this in a profound way that even you don't really even think about but when you think

about different than I don't know that anyone personified that better than Sabu and I know you feel the same way because when you go back to the very first episode of Monday Nitro no it wasn't in an arena it was at the mall of America and it had this interesting look and feel and we were going to reveal that Lex Lugar had jumped ship and we were going to have him go nose to nose with Hulk Hogan and we'd have sort of the best of WCW showcase. It's a Brian Pilman rematch with Juschen Thunderlager. It's a rematch with the nature boy, Rick Flair, and Sting. But somewhere in there, there was also a promo about Saboo.

And you threw to a Saboo clip package, and they had a series of clips with a lot of fun video effects promoting that Sabu is here and he'll be here next week. And I don't think people even think about that. But on the very first Nitro, you thought it was important. to highlight Sabu and tease that he would be here next week, Eric. Talk to us a little bit about Sabu and the use of that promo at the very first Nitro and what you think his overall impact and legacy and wrestling will be, Eric.

Well, I didn't remember that first Nitro and that video. But it makes sense because being the first show, I was really focused on being as different as possible. It's a first show. So you only get one chance to make a first impression. It's particularly true when you're launching a television show in prime time against the incumbent. It's really important. But then in developing the Nitro format, I'd already made up my mind.

The Cruiserweight Division needed to be a focus of Nitro in order to. for it to be successful. Sabu's style of wrestling, because we all know I'm now a fan of hardcore wrestling. But Sabu brought more than hardcore. But he did was hardcore, but he did it in such an amazing way that it was rapidity defying and death defying. It was super, super high risk. At a time when you didn't see a great deal of that, it saw a lot of hardcore. stuff. But Sabu brought the hardcore and what I call dynamic, you know, presentation, the high-risk, high-lying, crazy nonsense, not nonsense, crazy, crazy wrestling. Sabu would, you know, he brought that, he brought that to the table long before anybody in,

in a unique way. I never got to know Cebu really, I don't think he cared for me much. don't blame him necessarily, but I can't sit here and pretend I knew him or had any insight into him other than he was an extremely unique individual. Even regardless how he felt about me, you know, you can kind of get a sense of somebody by just watching them distance. And he was, my impression of him was he was a very, he was a loner. he preferred to be alone. Whether he was getting his head into his character or thinking through what he was going to do

or he just preferred not to be fucked with. I don't know, but that was my impression. So I never tried to get to know him too much, didn't really need to. Kevin Sullivan was the one that really was high on Cebu and dealt with Cebu and WCW. I never really engaged with it too much. but it was amazing former in terms of you know i think he's one of those performers because of what he did because he was so in deference to paul haman and hecd he was the king of extreme yeah in the eyes of that fan base and that fan base has become is is is loyal they're still

still out there to this day they remember that time what's like You know, the Monday Night Wars, there's a specific period of time when wrestling changed so dramatically during such a relatively short period of time, two, three years between what ECW was doing, what WCW was doing. You had WWE, the incumbent, it was like, whoa, man, it's all coming at you. And each one was different. You know, WWE was the king of the mountain, obviously. ECW was 180 degrees. from WWE in every conceivable way. WCW was not, was probably more like WWE than,

certainly than it was more like WCW, but still it was had, it was its own unique format. Nobody else was doing what I was doing with Nitro. WWE finally caught up and started about 97, 98, but it took them a year or two and getting her ass kick to do it. But that time, such a cool time in wrestling that people still remember.

I just did a 90s wrestling convention in Newark, somewhere, New York. I don't remember. I flew into Newark. That was fun. Great airport. Thank goodness. I was there for a while. But Cebu is in the ECW fan base.

You know, still significant at these conventions. still a large, large audience of former ECW fans. And I think they put Sabu kind of at the top of the pedestal as he shouldn't be. I mean, I think most people would agree that that ECW was largely built on the backs of Terry Funk and Sabu. And he was, in my opinion, wrestling's first great daredevil years before Shane McMahon or Darby Allen or even Mick Foley had that. I think people were saying that about Sabu.

Now, that's not to say that Foley hadn't done it on a national scale. He had. You know, by that point, we had already seen his wars with Sting and him taking the flatback bump from Milmascarus. But the idea that Sabu at that point had not yet been seen on mainstream TV, it felt underground. And Foley has often said on his old podcast that he didn't want to be perceived as a wrestler, like all the other wrestlers who were just trying to win a match or win a title or

score a pinfall, he wanted to be almost like a movie monster villain, like Jason Voorhees, and he was here to hurt people more than he was to win matches and move up the ranks. I think Sabu checked all those boxes, and I was a huge Sabu fan, a giant ECW fan, and he's one of those guys where, you know, Terry Brunk may have left this work. world, but Sabu will live forever. I mean, his style influenced so many people, Eric, that you see wrestle on Monday nights or Wednesday nights or Friday nights or Saturday nights, like your favorite wrestler in 2025, whether he knows it or not, probably borrows a little bit from

Saboo here and there, wouldn't you agree? Oh, absolutely. It's funny. I did a every show's episode yesterday with Derek Sabato. Yeah. And we, you know, imagine that we ventured off into the weeds. And we talked a lot about, you know, what Derek referred to as the butterfly effect, meaning something that happens long ago that all of a sudden you realize over the course of time

is still impacting what you see today. And I think what you just pointed out is a perfect example of that. I think there is a lot of things that we see today that you can point to ECW. You can point to WCW. That changed the industry. Change the format. That's what I mean. People say, we're going to change the landscape.

What the hell does that mean? In what way are you changing anything? You're taking advantage of the landscape and you exist within that landscape. It didn't change in anything for the most part. Completely. Not changing anything. Cut and dry. But if you look at what we see on a daily basis,

whether it's a WWE or AD, W, T&A, or whatever it is you watch, 70% of what you're seeing started something, started somewhere else. Somebody else was doing it. You look at that way, oh, I kind of like that. I'm going to do that. It gets passed on sometimes intentionally and respectfully, as in a wrestler wanting to work in another wrestlers finished and, you know, communicating that and getting okay to do that.

It's kind of a wrestling cultural thing. It's a sign of respect. Or you end up doing it even subconsciously. You don't realize you're ripping off somebody stuff. Because that happens too. It's not necessarily a bad thing. It just happens. But I think you look at a lot of what we see today and ask yourself,

does that remind me? Does that remind us? Oh, a little saboo going on in there. It's pretty fun. It's a great way to follow wrestling, too, because it keeps you connected to the past. and the legacy, and you have a better understanding of how things develop. Eric, I do want to ask you.

I, uh, I had a chance to watch a Sabu shoot interview and I wish we had the clip here, but we would have needed to get permission and things like that. So I'll just sort of break it down for you. There was a discussion where they, he, Sabu was asked, what is your opinion of Eric Bischoff? And he explained how you guys got sideways. And I think it really. It's just a miscommunication.

I guess the idea was when you go back to 1995, we know that Sabu is going to be a Halloween havoc, and you had him wrestle on that second Nitro. We know somehow, some way his uncle the sheik takes a bad bump. He breaks his leg. He finishes the show, still goes and throws fire with a broken leg.

But Sabu wasn't long for that world. And I guess it was discussed in a way with Kevin Sullivan, because as Sabu tells the story, it was Kevin who reached out and they wanted to bring him in and get him on paper and get him a contract. And Sabu viewed it more as like a tryout. And he said, you know,

hey, just let me come in and put me over and I'll wrestle for free. And Kevin said, no, we have to pay you something. This is a major corporation. We have to pay you for your services. But Sabu just thought, hey, if you're not going to sign me, then you're letting me win on TV. this is good for my business I'll do it for nothing but if you are going to sign me then

hey I want you to be impressed with with how easy I am to do business with and see how good of a performer I am and what a great job I can do for you to just don't pay me and they agree okay we have to pay you something we'll just make it $500 so Sabu got paid $500 to do the television match and I guess when when you actually reached out to him according to Sabu to extend the contract offer it was for hey we want you to do one TV a month and one pay per view a month and allegedly Sabu said something like okay where are you going to pay me and you said we're going to pay you your rate exactly what you asked for we give you exactly what you asked for and Sabu's like I didn't ask for anything oh no you asked for

$500 that was a miscommunication that's the way it was explained to me now Sabu didn't call at that. But I could totally see how that's the game of telephone. Kevin Sullivan has that conversation with Sabu. You're not privy to it. And then Kevin says, hey, Sabu's coming in. He asked for $500. And you're like, hell yeah, give him $500. I'm in. But then when you're on the phone with him, if you feel like, wait, he set his rate, I offered him his rate. And now he's trying to negotiate with me. I don't want to go down a bad road here and set a bad precedent. You asked for a number. I gave you the number. That's the way I read that. story a saboo retold it does any of this jog of memory to you at all eric it didn't happen

okay with respect to saboo need to answer a question like this under these circumstances but there's no malice or or anything on my park i'm just going to lay it out and it should be pretty easy to figure out why it didn't happen without me even saying it if someone thought about this for more 10 seconds one i've never done a deal with anybody or would even contemplate doing a deal with anybody for any amount of money for one tv a month and a pay-per-view yeah i've never heard of that set up before you never heard of it because it's the most insane thing in the world nobody would consider it certainly didn't so the very premise of that explanation

rumbles under about 10 seconds with a thought, critical thought. I mean, you've got to have critical thought, but it's flawed on its very face, number one. As far as needing a contract, it's not so much, I wouldn't care. Somebody wants to work for a dollar a day, I'll pay them a dollar a day. If that's their goal, I've got an extra buck in my pocket, and want to work for me for a buck a day, I'm in. no problem it wasn't about the money it was about contract it was about legalities it was about national television release it was about our ability to use that television and monetize that television which includes having the rights for everybody in it so it wasn't so much about the

money in terms of having saying no you need to sign a deal as part of getting the money but the money wasn't the issue, the contract was, for a variety of legal reasons and promotional ones. So the whole, I hate to say it, I don't know how Cebu interpreted things, I don't know what was said on a phone call, I don't know any of that, I just knew that, I know that on the face of that, it absolutely makes zero sense. How many people out there hate my guts and think everything I say is bullshit have at it, If you think about that for 10 seconds, even you would have to realize that there's something along with that statement. Sabu was one of a kind, and man, what an innovator.

He shaped so many memories, created such an incredible legacy. Is it even debatable, Eric? I mean, I think we're aligned on this without even discussing it. Sabu should be in every pro wrestling hall. fame there is, right? Yes, because of the impact that he made, above and beyond the impact of many great superstars, absolutely, created a brand, created a style to some degree, that people didn't do it before him, but he made it his own, he built that brand and built his brand in a way

that no one else really has so yeah absolutely there's a contribution to the industry and that's what should matter I think Eric earlier this week we helped try to celebrate the life and career of Sabu over on our podcast heat YouTube page we were fortunate enough to be joined by some ECW alumni the legends who traveled up and down the road with Sabu house snow rhino blue mani and even a surprise run-in from Jerry Lynn the guy shared some of their favorite moments and matches with Sabu, and they also revealed the side of Sabu that

doesn't get talked about enough. Let's take a listen. But he would always pay for my food, always pay for the rental car, the hotels and all that. We all shared a room. And then I always offered to give money, and he said, maybe more than you. He goes,

I go, at least let me back my food. And I never took advantage of it. He goes, no, he goes, but when I want to leave, we leave, you know, and all that stuff. So we were on this schedule, which was the schedule I would have been on, you know. But no, he did that a lot. And if some people were driving home and they were just going to sleep in the car,

he'd give them money for a hotel room. So which I learned and I try to help out people along the way too. And I think that needs to be, Conrad, I think that needs to be noted that, you know, Sabu went out of his way to help a lot of people, you know. He really did. saw him personally take money out of his own pocket to pay guys that didn't get paid on shows or cover their gas. Tabu had his demons.

But he was a good person. He was a good guy. I was working on an independent show in Delaware. And the guy had a pre-show meaning about how the house was down and we're going to get paid off the DVD sales of the show. And I'm just like, yeah, I've heard this before. So everybody looked at me. I was like, well, let's, let's work the show.

And I think I was one of the few guys that actually got paid. And I wrote him with my opponent. And after the show, we went to get something eaten. I made, and true Sabu, what I learned from Sabu is I reached in to my pay and paid my opponent out of my pay to make sure he had something. And I bought him dinner at the Oregon Diner afterwards and stuff like that. It's just some things that are the right things to do, you know, coming up in the business.

Catch our celebrating Cebu stream now. Just click the link in the description below or head on over to podcast heatwrestling.com. While you're there, be sure to hit that subscribe button and turn on the notifications bell so you don't miss a minute next time we're live. Man, Cebu, what an innovator. What a legacy. I do want to hit on some other news and notes before we move forward,

but I also want to remind you that today's episode, and all of our episodes are brought to you by blue chew and eric i don't know if you've seen this but they've introduced blue chew max it combines the active ingredients of viagra and cealis it's into one chewable think of this as like the wolf pack version of like you know we all knew how great the NWO was and we're like well how can they level up from here well don't turn your back on the wolf pack because somebody might clap them cheeks for you guys be ready whenever she needs it or he needs it and get your first month of Blue Chew free. That's right.

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Visit Blu.com for more details and important safety information. And we thank Blue Chew for sponsoring today's podcast. And we are indeed live here on YouTube, HBK Style says, hey guys, huge fan of the show. Keep it up. Tag it. Sweet. We greatly appreciate you. Too sweet to you, my friend. We've got another question from AOTV productions. He wants to know, what do you think about the beef with Javon Evans and Ricochet? I guess these guys had a back and forth last week on social Eric. And at one point, the talent, Javon Evans, who

if you're not familiar with, he's part of the developmental program with WWE. I think he referred to Tony Conn as a crackhead. And I said to myself, self, I don't know if that's necessarily the most diplomatic way to make sure you can make a living in wrestling for now. I don't understand this. You got one talent on a developmental

calling the owner of the other promotion. Make that make sense to me. Is this the most short-sighted tweet maybe in wrestling this year? is childish kind of noisy garbage yeah it's not doing and look ricochet is no saint in a scenario either I've seen some of the stuff he's posted it

it makes him look bad it makes the company look bad it's just it's so so low level you're over the edgy shit aren't you no I love edgy shit when it's done right not when it's done like a 14 year old kid. I love it edgy. Mysterio stuff, or not misterio, I'm sorry. Dominic. Dominic stuff. It's edgy and it works.

This is like two 14 year old kids. They both look like chicken shit little punks. What's, what good does that do with you? You know, first of all, I'm the last guy that would ever publicly accuse a billionaire of being a crackhead. Get out a freaking calculator, kid. Don't show all the buttons you can,

and when you run out of buttons, go get another calculator, because that's how much money you're going to be spending illegal fees if he decides to sue your ass for defamation. Guess what? I get the whole way. He's a public figure, blah, blah, blah, blah. Yeah, that gets you some rope. Just enough to hang yourself with. Stupid. It doesn't get you over. It doesn't make you more interesting. Doesn't make you more dangerous. It makes you a chicken ship pump. Stop it. You haven't even earned the right to step in front of a camera yet. And if you get that opportunity, it's your chance to prove yourself. Don't cut your legs out from underneath you before you ever get a chance by doing stupid 14-year-old shit.

Learn how to do it right. Want to be edgy? Learn how to do it right. Stupid. Same applies to ricochet. Think you're getting yourself over? You're making yourself look stupid. You're making yourself look low.

rent to how you want to build your career i like the guy i'm in Vegas a couple weeks ago nice guy yeah silly mark the day and time it was may 16th around 1230 and eric bischoff just offended tony conne never thought i'd see it never thought i'd see it uh we are live here we've got our questions piling up here ask a bum has a silly question for you eric but since you're now in the combat sports space ask abum wants to know who would have won a fight between ernest the cat miller and steve blackman i've never seen steve blackman in action i have sparred with ernest miller i understand i'll do respect to steve blackman Because everybody that I've ever talked to that knew Steve, who I had respect for, he was the real deal.

Now, who would win a fight? I don't know. Because I never gotten a ring or fought with Blackmun. I did fight with Ernest Miller. I put my money on Ernest Mill. For a 240 or so 50-pound guy, you got to name the cat for a reason. He was a 250-pound guy, martial artist that could move like 175 pounder.

He was very, very fast. Hit like a freaking truck and could hit you from angles you didn't know existed. So I put my money in this. James Weston is here with us live, Eric. And just a minute ago, he wants to know, are you feeling okay, Bishop? I think you had your glasses. on and you took them off it's like your Clark can't no you know what poses me up is because

I got tint in these glasses and sometimes it shows up on camera sometimes it doesn't there's those transition lessons so like if I go outside it turn you know blue but there's a cut when they're not blue there's kind of a yellowish tint in them and it makes it hard for me to try to read so it's hard for me to read with them and it's hard for me to read without it when I'm in here under these lights. So I just get tired. I apologize. But no,

I feel great. Do I look like shit or what? No, you look great. I mean, you're like 10 days out from a big reveal, aren't you? Yeah,

yeah, I'm feeling the pressure. I'm about 10 pounds heavier than I wanted to be at this point. Well, I mean, listen, I have it on good authority. Wikipedia's got your date of birth wrong.

It's actually June 27th. I don't know if that's helpful. Oh, right. I got eight more weeks. with Wikipedia. Yeah, I'm just trying to buy you, Tom, you know. Jason says, Eric, what did you think of Hulk Hogan versus McMahon at

WrestleMania 19? It is interesting, too, because you think about their historical significance and their relationship and just their importance to WWV. And then you fast forward to today at WrestleMania 41, and it's like, man, things couldn't be more different. I mean, just the idea that there is no Vince McMahon at WrestleMania. And now Hogan is doing professional wrestling, not sports entertainment. And he's got the real American beer.

And he's even a bigger cultural icon now because nostalgia has enjoyed such a big boom. But meanwhile, Vince is almost a four-letter word on WW programming. But the benefit of hindsight, that WrestleMania 19 match, that's got a whole new context through 2025 eyes does it not yeah when you think of it that way but did I think of that man you know it was it was okay didn't have a lot of heat behind it I think it was an attraction match meeting wow all covenant miss McMahon I'm gonna check that out it was no real story of real stakes it was it was a touch of nostalgia is what it was and I thought it was fun don't get me wrong I enjoyed it I was a good time I think the fans all enjoyed it but

yeah that was happening today if somehow you know it's possible it isn't somebody brings a time machine it would really be cool wouldn't it speaking of interesting i don't know that you noticed this but it's been tagged a few times online it was three years ago today that sasha banks and naomi walked out of w so that would have been may of 2022 and that's in advance of everything that happened with Vince and well everything else but on some level that feels like it was last year but on another hand it almost was like it was 10 years ago doesn't an area lot has happened hasn't it since that time so much has happened not just in wrestling but

in almost every way socially politically in terms of entertainment just so much going on that yeah It seems like last week. We also need to talk about the news that wrestle ops, I guess wrestle votes radio backstage pass is the one who broke this. But allegedly, WW has plans in the very near future to hold three major live events in Mexico, all centered around a show called Super Show Mexico. You know,

I think we've all wondered, hey, how is this AAA acquisition going to really look? And how will that affect? wrestling in Mexico, is that perhaps, I almost feel like that's a more interesting storyline than what's happening here in America as far as the inner promotional war, because with AAA now teaming with WWE or WW acquiring AAA better said, that AAA CMLL rivalry, man, it's a whole new battle down there, is it not?

I don't know the culture, you know, the wrestling culture there. I don't know how the fan base is feeling. Obviously, I don't pay any attention to that market anymore. But just listening to you lay that out, yeah, I would think it would heat that rivalry up. It's us versus them. Mexico versus the Gringos. Awesome. Potentially, awesome.

You know the controversy. Somebody said it. Controversy creates cash in it. actually, whether the person that said that or not originated it and it named a book effort, if he actually knew that or if it just sounded good, I don't know, I'll let you decide. But it's actually true, isn't it? John Sina did an interview with US Weekly or Us Weekly earlier this week.

And he says in discussing Vince McMahon, everybody's entitled to their opinion. It's like I'm entitled to have an emotional connection to somebody. I don't hold anybody or how they feel or what they view is permissible or things that'll make them angry, happy, excited, sad. That's their right as a human being. As in response to the fan backlash, he says, I'm not surprised about any of that. I feel like on the one hand,

John Cena should be applauded for defending his friend and saying, hey, even if some bad stuff happened, he's still my friend. I appreciate John Sina doing that. Everybody needs a friend like John Sina, is what I'm trying to say. But this is kind of considered a controversial take in the wrestling world. What do you think of that, Eric, that, you know, now he's a heel. So now I guess it's okay to boo John Sina. Maybe that's the idea.

But him standing up for Vince and saying, hey, he's my friend and I have an emotional connection with this person. And everybody's entitled to their opinion. It's their right as a human being. that doesn't play well in certain wrestling circles. Your response? It's unfortunate because I think that was a really thoughtful, very thoughtful and honest response, and it's one that I think should be applauded.

But whether it's the wrestling bubble or just society as a whole, we've seemed to always been this way, I'm sure. And over the last couple of years, it's gotten so intense. And by it, I mean, people feel so entitled to immediately cast judgment. Like they're in charge of shit. They're not.

Who are these people that feel that they can judge or should judge? It becomes their mission to judge. A comment from John Cena, which is innocuous, in my opinion. He wasn't defending Vince. He was defending himself for his friendship. And you can acknowledge that somebody did something wrong. You can acknowledge that someone did something bad. But who made you judge?

You could decide not to associate with someone that you feel did something wrong, or something evil, whatever you want to call it. It's your choice and certainly make it. But when you start judging people and their intent and their heart, not to sound melodramatic about it, because you feel you have some knowledge or righteous platform to put that judgment on someone. It's a way.

It's bullshit. I admire John. He's consistent. I remember I was in Detroit a couple, maybe last year, a year before, whatever. It doesn't matter. A year or two ago, I was in Detroit, visiting family, and I stopped for gas, and I left the radio on while I was pumping gas because I was listening. It was a Howard Stern show. John Cena was the guest, which is why I was listening to Howard.

Stern, otherwise I wouldn't miss my time. But he's a dipshit. What a clown. But John addressed it head on in a similar tone as he did here. But man, that's a righteous dude. That is a stand-up human being. He's not casting judgment. He acknowledged what happened.

He acknowledged disappointment. He acknowledged being confused about it. but he also defended his relationship and talked about why he had that relationship. What is so freaking wrong with that? And again, I know I'm beating up on the low-hanging, low-level, low-vibrational, bottom-feeding garbage that makes up 75% of the Internet wrestling community. Fortunately, there's 25% of you that listen to shows like mine, and don't fall into this category. but these are the people that can only find validation by criticizing and judging others

who have achieved more and probably have a more critical thinking perspective than the people that are making the most noise will ever know you feel the need you're judged John Cena because they're judging Vince McMahon. I just don't get off on judging people. I can tell you if I like someone or not, I don't judge their character. It's a lot of wasted energy, but unfortunately, there's so many of them. And the reason they aggregate this little pool, like scum,

on the pond in the summer, it gets really hot. That's what the haters in the internet wrestling community, they kind of form that pond scum. Because pond scum is really comfortable with pond scum. They're not required to do much. Just lay there in the water and stink up the joint. All you got to do. And they feel comfortable in that pot because they're not challenged.

They don't have to accomplish it. anything you don't have to you don't have to try you just have to make some noise and best judgment and then they're going to get people that like and agree with them and they're going to get people who disagree with them and then all of a sudden for the first time in their miserable lives they feel important because people they don't even know are reacting to them oh be an influence or someday that's what that mindset is let's talk about some other news and notes what do you want to get off of subject

let's pretend that conversation never happened oh no no i just i know there's some other news and notes that we want to hit including tkio president mark shepiro earlier this week he um shared his thoughts during a jp morgan conference about the new wwee unreal series and here's what he had to say as a reminder eric that's the series that's going to debut on netflix this summer it's a peek into the writer's room. So we're going to see how the sausage is made.

But here's the quote from Mark Shapiro, who's the TKO president. Quote, I always tell Nick Kahn, careful, let's not give away the Coca-Cola recipe here. But having said that, I think just a little sneak behind into the writer's room is evidenced by S&L, something all fans and viewers want to see.

So it even says like Mark understands, we can't give away too much. I do think that that's what fans are expecting, Eric, is they want to see warts and all. We know, as, as Jeff Jarrett said, as soon as this was announced, it all comes down to the edit. Do you think this WWE Unreal series is going to excite fans or disappoint fans once they see what WWE is willing to reveal in their edit, Eric? neither I think it will engage fans which is really I think it will

oh I don't even know how to say this it's like you know the more you know about a sport the more engaged you are if you've ever you know go watch cricket I'm learning about cricket for obvious reasons And now that I'm spending time learning about it, in the rules, strategies,

how the game is played, some of the terminology, I'm enjoying it more. I think if you look at UFC, and it's one of the things that I think about a lot in the process of doing what we're doing with Real American Freestyle. You know, the everybody knows about amateur wrestling. I'm going to go a long-winded way and kind of send my

promote myself here, not myself, but do it's applicable here in the context of your question. 20 years ago, if you would have pulled 100 guys out of a bar Friday night, lined them up outside, said, okay, I got $1,000 in this. The first one that can tell me what a rear naked choke is, it's $1,000. It would have said, it sounds like a C-9. out of a porn play. What a weird naked joke? That's weird, right? Now, you pull 100 guys out of a bar on a Friday night,

that not only tell you what it is, three quarters of them could demonstrate it. It educated the audience. When MMA first emerged, and I can take you all the way back to the PCA, the professional karate association back in the late 70s, that was on CBS Sports Spectacca. It was on wide rule of sports.

I knew the people that were trying to launch it as a television program. I've worked with him, actually. Didn't get it over because the audience didn't really understand it. Just guys kicking and punching each other. UFC has done an amazing job. I call it edutainment. I think I coined it yesterday in a conversation.

Maybe I didn't. Maybe it's like Larry Zabisco and the NWO thing. I heard him say it. I thought, that was cool. A couple weeks later, it was like, oh, Call it the NWL. I'm a genius. Now, just subliminally, I heard it, and it stuck with me.

But detainment is part of the process. And I think with wrestling, we've seen how many more wrestling matches do we need to see a week? And more importantly, if you're building that brand, what can you do inside of a wrestling ring that get ready for it is different than everything else that you do? doing all week long. And if we can expose, I've got some questions about how they're going to do it, just from a producer's point. But it's been in a writer's room for 20 years of my life. It's going to be an interesting challenge. But I think if they find the way, if they find the format, it's a secret sauce. And if they can find that secret sauce within that format, where you're getting authentic,

legitimate exposure of the real process, not something that's staged like, you know, a decade ago, you know, reality show. If they find an organic way to do it, think it will further engage the audience that's already a fan and make them even more of a fan because now they're going to understand the process or is a part of it in a way that makes them feel empowered to be a fan. I'm pretty sure that's the strategy. It would be if I was doing it, that would be my goal, to further engage by edutainment. Now, let's talk about how they do that in a television format.

It's got to be about, you've got to reveal, the audience has to feel like they're learning something, seeing something, gaining some sort of insight that they would not otherwise get watching something else. there's got to be stakes, it's got to be drama, got to be conflict, and there's got to be resolution. That's kind of like,

you know, if you're going to bake a cake, those are the basic ingredients. So how they do that in a writer's room, that'll be interesting. It would be hard. That's why I'm so interested in it, because from a producer's perspective,

in terms of trying to maintain the audience's engagement in the show holding your audience as they say in the television business holding your audience for something like that can be really tough because those those those elements have to be there and if they're not you're not going to hold them well something that you may have been holding just a little too long is that credit card debt i can help it save with conrad dot com you've heard me talk about how this past january credit card debt here in america rose to a record $1.21 trillion, well, according to the Federal Reserve Bank in New York, 60% of credit card holders are carrying a credit card balance each month,

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and when you work with our team over at save with eric dot com you're going to get to take advantage of our three-year guarantee experts agree that interest rates are expected to fall in the next few years and a lot of people are waiting on the perfect time well listen if you waited until all the red lights were green to go to town, you'd never leave your driveway. Why not stop overpaying today and start saving money right now, but set yourself up to take advantage of those rates when they fall in the future. See, we're going to allow you to use our exclusive three-year guarantee to refinance in the next three years with no new lender fees. So you'll lock in a better rate now than what you're paying on all that 23% credit card interest rate dead. But more importantly,

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Go right now to save witheric.com and L.S. number 21, 29, equal housing lender, save with Eric.com. We got two more pieces of business I want to touch on here. Our intention was to talk about Dustin Rhodes, but with so much other headline news this week since we missed last week. We're going to talk about Dustin next week. We are going to be doing it live on YouTube. We want you to join us.

If you haven't already, hit the subscribe button and more importantly, turn on the notifications bell. If you've got YouTube on your phone, it'll give you a push notification. Even if you're at work, you can glance down and we'll be live. If you got a question for Eric, hit the button and we can get it for you. But the question about Mark Shapiro's quote is what I really want to hone in on here. Another clip from the JP Morgan conference where Mark Shapiro, the TKO president, was on stage.

And he sort of basically showed his hand that house shows are going to get cut down even more in the future. they see this as the old business model Eric and we all know that you know Vince McMan felt house shows were necessary to service that audience to come to these more rural towns and service those fans who don't normally get to see action like this it also gave the the talent an opportunity to learn and try things and get their reps in and stay sharp for TV we would often see before a big pay per view hey you could bet that in the weeks leading up to that big pay-per-view confrontation, they're going to try some things on the house shows.

But now there's no guess. Mark Shapiro is sort of showing his hands. We're doing less of them, and we're going to continue to do even fewer of them. How does that news strike here? It doesn't even sound like news to me. I mean, it should have been done 10 years ago or more. No, maybe not 10. certainly five years ago.

Again, I'll just use this brief. First of all, let me back up. Vince was right. One of the reasons WWE became WWE and WCW became WCW to a lesser extent was because

professional wrestling was the only form of popular entertainment on weekly television, episodic television effectively, where the stars of those shows would come to your local community, especially in smaller markets. It's no different.

I think all of us have experienced this. I'll speak for myself. I can't think of the performance name now. But there have been bands. Fleetwood Mac. I was never a Fleetwood Mac fan in the 70s or the 80s. Thank you for the music. I went to a concert.

I named my dog Stevie after Stevie Nix, and when that dog died, I named Nikki, Nikki after Stevie Nix. I'm a huge flea wood back band, but only because I went to their concert. Experiencing something live, you get a different connection to it. And it's one of the reasons, I believe,

And I think Vince would agree for people that think like Vince that connection to your audience is one of the reasons why professional wrestling has existed on television since the very beginning of television time. Because it has the unique ability to engage and connect to your audience in a way that no other form of entertainment does. So Vince was right, but I think what's happened, just evolution, business, world, the cost of doing those shows now are getting really, really expensive. It's getting more and more expensive. I mean, travels off the charts. When I look at my plane tickets for, you know, my recent travel over the last three weeks, blows my mind how expensive it's become.

So I think between the expense of house shows, and there's not that much margin in it, and oh, yeah, there's a fair amount of risk in it. Financially, it doesn't make any sense anymore. It actually hasn't made sense probably for six to eight years. When I was in WWA in 2019, I sat in on a live events meeting. it was ugly like what hell are we doing this for ugly and no solution there was no i wasn't involved in that side of the business i just happened to be in that particular meeting but listen to some of the smartest guys in a room drug in our shoulders

that that side of the business model has been dead for six to eight years now here's the downside reps injuries and you and everybody well hold out here you're wrestling less there's less chance to get injured on paper that makes sense here's the reality the less you work the more likely it is you're going to get hurt working three or four five days of week keeps you in condition for wrestling, professional wrestling as we know it, which is a lot of impact on your body. You're absorbing a lot of impact for 12, 14, 18, 20 minutes. You're putting your body through a lot of trauma. The average person, if you tried to get through it and did, you'd wish you didn't the next morning. But wrestlers can do it night after night after night

because they do it night after night after night and the chances of getting hurt is much less when you're frequently in the ring exposing yourself to that kind of impact you get in shape for it way i'm not telling you this from personal experience i'm telling me this from multiple conversations with people that had done it both ways so that is also kind of a risk and then there's a performance issue as you pointed out you know it was kind of fun back in the day to go, I heard, you know, this is maybe what they're doing for WrestleMania. Let's start going to shows in January and maybe get a sneak peek, see if it's true.

Watch it develop in an early preview. Remember when you used to go to the movies as a kid? I don't know about you. I'm quite a bit of a little bit. But I used to go to the movies. The previews were the best part. They're showing you the hottest part of the show or the hottest part of the movie, right? I'll show you the boring stuff.

Show all the hot stuff. It's like, whoa, look, oh, I can't wait to see that. Oh, that's awesome. Live events were kind of the professional wrestling version of preview of next week's movie. So losing that opportunity, probably have some consequences. I'll have to figure out how to deal with. But the end of the day, it's all about business, it's all about numbers, just math. And the math doesn't make any sense anymore.

Just another way we know that Rasselin is changing. I want to be clear. I heard this from someone who no longer works for WWE, but it was told to me that years ago that simply putting Roman reins on a house show would mean the difference, Eric, in that show being a profitable house show or a money loser house show.

And that's not to infer for a second. I want to say this in a loud and clear voice. I'm not saying that Roman was not a draw. I'm not saying that Roman was not an attraction. I'm not suggesting that Roman Raines could not sell tickets. What I am saying is that the pay scale has changed so much for once upon a time, a guy like Hulk Hogan or a guy like Steve Austin, they were quote, unquote, paid on the house.

So if we sold a lot of tickets, you made a lot of money. If we didn't sell a lot of tickets, you didn't make a lot of money. And yes, you still had a downside guarantee. But now the payroll is so astronomical. and the dates are so small that you really have to sharpen the pencil in order to make it work for you to have some of your headline talent on the show. So it almost becomes a chicken in the egg scenario of these live events, Eric, where, hey, we only drew 4,000 in Huntsville, hypothetically, and a 10,000 seater.

How can we sell more of those seats? Well, we could fly in some more of the big name talent. But by the time you do that, respectfully, even if you sold all 10,000 seats, seats, are you even going to break even? And Jim Ross even said years later or years ago that it became such a costly endeavor to run Madison Square Garden that they could sell every ticket and it would be what the building might call total utilization. And because the costs were so high between talent, production, the union and just the rent

and what it costs to operate in MSG, that the show even if it was completely sold out would still lose money the company would have actually been better off financially had they not burn the date on all those talent and not run the show because now they've burned a date with really no opportunity to leverage that date for profit i know we're getting really really granular and in the weeds here with this sort of discussion eric but all signs point to how shows are of a bygone era now no they are but here Now, here's the rationale, and I'm guessing this was part of the conversation back then in WWE.

Yeah, we're going to lose money going to New York. But you're maintaining that connection to your market, promoting that event in your market. It's your backyard. And oh, by the way, if your backyard happens to be New York City, it's a really, really important backyard. It's kind of like the Frank Sinatra song. If you can make it there, you can make it anywhere. Keeping up the perception of having made it in New York

by literally throuting event in the most iconic venue in the world, it may not return revenue, but it does support your brand and your marketing position. In the eyes, particularly of your sponsors, partners, even though they may not be sponsoring that show, they know that there's consumers in that marketplace, and they all bought a ticket, maybe the house should, maybe they did a million dollars and they lost $200 in the process.

But it also suggests to your sponsors and licensees that you're alive and well in New York. And sometimes it's worth it to make that statement. I don't know. But, yeah, the business has changed. It hasn't made sense in a long time. I'm sure the talent is like, you, thank goodness. Yay. But they're also probably looking at more.

foreign dates or international dates, a lot more travel, doing a lot more television that isn't necessarily on Monday night or Friday night, like a lot of new shows that they're developing. So they're going to stay busy. But, you know, I'm kind of, I think it's time that we evolved out of that. You know, the business has gotten so big. There's so much wrestling available now on television, so much wrestling available on television. that maybe they found a way to end with social media and website and all that. Maybe they don't feel they need to stay as connected to the local markets with live events as they used to.

Maybe they found a way to maintain that engagement in a different way. Well, as we're talking about how the business has changed and is changing, because as a reminder, Vince McMahon is no longer calling the shots for WWW. now they're trying to deliver shareholder value and it is a totally different ballgame and I know it was publicly traded before but an easy differentiator is take a look at the canvas and the ringside area and the way it's marketed and sold now I mean it looks like the side of a NASCAR it never did with WWE I'm not saying that's wrong I'm saying one is clearly prioritizing profit over everything else and the other approach was like well no this isn't what we do we just don't do that that's not our brain identity it feels like everything sort of on the table and that sort of thinking led Kenny Omega to share something recently on a podcast he says I don't know if I've ever said it publicly or not I think we're headed on a path where a couple of WrestleMania is down the road the main event is going to be Logan Paul versus Mr. Beast

and it's like what's the wrestling acumen how many miles have they put into it it's like does it matter this is process of evolution and i know that this sparked a huge debate and people had strong opinions one way or another but on the one hand i can't say that he's necessarily wrong that they wouldn't ever produce a mr beast versus logan paul match at russomania i could see that if you're trying to court attention i mean as silly as this is it wasn't that long ago there was discussion about hey is is Zuckerberg going to fight Elon Musk in the Roman Coliseum and Dana White promotes it and puts it on pay-per-view as silly as that sounds in 2025 that wasn't that long ago that was discussed as being a real

possibility however real is still debatable but we know Logan Paul's there and he and he's got a huge following and he's got a I mean Travis Scott was involved in the main event just based on is standing on social media. So if we are trying to court attention and you do have the strongest promotional machine around in WWV, I could see them doing something big at WrestleMania, but I don't know that we'd ever stray so far away that that is the the real deal last match at WrestleMania. The real deal main event still feels like it needs to be rooted in wrestling.

And that's not to say that Logan Paul isn't working his ass off to be a quote unquote real wrestler, but I don't know that Mr. Beast has any aspirations of this. But what do you think of Kenny's observation that in an effort to court attention and maybe deliver shareholder value, we're deviating really far from what pro wrestling was supposed to be? So funny. We've talked about this, kind of when I was coming up, when I first got into to the wrestling business.

At the end of, you know, on Thursday and Fridays in particular, at the end of the day, Wahoo, McDaniel, Ray, the Cripple of Stevens, myself, Greg, Donya, a couple other people. We all crack a couple beers and sit around and listen to Wahoo and Ray and Greg. Sometimes Vern, tell wrestling stories. And then wrestling stories would evolve into critique of the business, the way the business is today. Take out Kenny Omega, insert Vernagania.

It's freaking hilarious to me how each generation looks at what's coming up behind them and criticizes it for just the business is never going to be the same. I don't know, Kenny, I've said hi to him a few times. He rubs me as a pretty cool guy. So I'm not, I'm not, this is not meant to be critical, but if you just pull back and take out your, you know, wrestling company bias and look at the statement, what Kenny said has been true for freaking decades. He just happens to be on the outside now because he's aging out.

Not that he may have another 10 years ago, I don't know, but he's not that up and coming class. He's the class. He's the current class. There's a whole class of talent coming up behind them that are going to be the current class before long. So it's not just Kenny. Every generation of wrestlers that have come along, and I've been fortunate to sit through a couple of them and listen to the comments, and it's just funny to me how it's predictable as hell. Because the business changes. There is nobody going up and down the roads anymore, you know, the lure of professional wrestling on the road.

Not to diminish it because it's a real thing. But sometimes people hang on that a little harder than they should. But going up and down the roads necessarily equates to producing revenue, making you a better or bigger star. And also, I have a hard time looking at Logan Paul with anything other than sheer freaking amazement. He's really, really good.

Did he need to be in the back of a freaking car 12 hours a day? Driving from town to town and putting our roast beef sandwich on the manifold to thawed out so we could eat on. I've heard all. those stories. I've heard him so much. I'm tired of hearing them because they all sound the same to me. True as they may be. It's still the same story over and over and oh, okay. It was really

brutal. You slept in your car. It's some stupid shit too, but I chose to do it. So the stuff is lost on me. I know it sounds really cool and I like to, it's melancholy for a lot of guys. Not for me, man. I'm just looking at today and tomorrow. I look at somebody like Logan Paul. I don't care if he ever spent two minutes in a wrestling school or six months driving up and down the road, sleeping in his car, somehow pay his entry into the world of professional wrestling and get the respect from his peers. If the guy can get to deliver in the ring of Mr. Beast, that soft, mushy-looking little kid that's got more money than anybody, if he decides to go to the gym and learn how to perform, and if he can perform, warmth is good. it's Logan Paul I'll buy a freaking ticket and sit ringside I don't care where you came from I only care if you entertain me but I get it and it makes me chuckle that'll do it for this week we appreciate all of you joining us here live at 83 weeks

dot com next week by God we are finally talking about Dustin Rhodes we've been talking about we've been talking about talking about Dustin Rhodes for going on 90 days. This is awesome. Really happening next week. My hooker crook, join us live here at 83 weeks.com and tell your friends, EasyE is back. He's going to shred some folks like a head of cabbage next week right here on 83 weeks

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