83 Weeks with Eric Bischoff - Episode 393: WWE Ruined The nWo

Episode Date: September 26, 2025

On this episode of 83 Weeks, Eric and Conrad dig into the buzz around a possible Macho Man Randy Savage movie hitting the big screen. Eric also reveals never-before-told details about a planned Hulk Hogan movie that was set to star a major Hollywood A-lister. Plus, the guys break down Eric’s Top 5 reasons the nWo experiment failed in WWE. And if that’s not enough, Massive Heat host Raj Giri joins the show to cover all the latest news and notes from the world of professional wrestling. CASH APP - Download Cash App Today: https://capl.onelink.me/vFut/j5ojws30 #CashAppPod *Referral Reward Disclaimer: As a Cash App partner, I may earn a commission when you sign up for a Cash App account. STOPBOX - Get firearm security redesigned and save 15% off @StopBoxUSA with code 83WEEKS at https://stopboxusa.com/83WEEKS #stopboxpod  SIGNOS - Go to signos.com, and get $10 off select plans with code 83WEEKS. BLUECHEW - Visit https://bluechew.com  and try your first month of BlueChew FREE when you use promo code 83WEEKS -- just pay $5 shipping. LEGAL BUDDY - Download the Legal Buddy App at http://LegalBuddyApp.com . Register today, use referral code LEGAL for your chance to win a $250 Amazon Gift Card. SAVE WITH CONRAD - Stop throwing money away by paying those high interest rates on your credit card. Roll them into one low monthly payment and on top of that, skip your next two house payments. Go to https://www.savewithconrad.com  to learn more.

Hey, Hey, it's Conrad the mortgage guy and you're listening to 83 weeks with Eric Fischoff, Eric, what's going on? man i don't know man i i got i got chill bumps all over listen to that music seeing that open oh my god it's so awesome the music it just puts me in the mood you know i mean you talk about mood music i'm going to be walking up and down the streets of downtown cody doing this thing here it's just too awesome well hang on now wait a minute am i seeing the top of a shirt right there don't stand up oh yeah no this is inappropriate look at that okay how about that 83 weeks merge.com

go grab yourself an easy e-shirt right now and we are celebrating 30 years of nitro right now we've got a special collection 30 years of nitro upon us go grab yourself some nitro 30 gear t-shirts sweatshirts stickers and more all available right now for a limited time only at 83 weeks merch.com and when they're gone, they're gone.

They won't be here for life. Go check them out. Eric, we are excited for today's show because we've got a lot of fun stuff planned. We are going to be talking about Nitro from 1995. We're also going to be talking about why the NWO failed in the WWE. We've spent years talking about why it worked here in WCW, but why didn't it work with WWE? We'll talk about that.

We'll also hear from Raj Geary, who's got some late-breaking news, I guess, about where we are with streaming services. We'll talk about Johnson and his retirement tour. But we're going to double down on the nostalgia today. But before we do that, I can't help but notice there's been a lot of announcements about real American freestyle since last week. We know the next event is Penn State University, October 25th. Make plans to be there in person.

I'm planning to be there in person. Penn State's great this time of year, by the way. I saw Alabama play them years ago there. what a really, really fun time I had. I can't wait to see this, but you've got a lot of talent announced here, Eric. What can we expect from Real American Freestyle? Well, we're, you know, as we did in at the very first Real American Freestyle

back on August 30th in Cleveland, bringing some of the absolutely elite, elite freestyle wrestlers in the world. And this time we're bringing it to Penn State. And Penn State is like, you know, kind of right now it's, I don't want to call it the mecca of the amateur wrestling universe, but it's a pretty powerful place to be if you're in the collegiate wrestling world. So we're excited to bring it there. One of the athletes, we've got a whole card full of great athletes, I won't run through them now, but Mason Paris,

Mason was at REF1, and he almost competed because of some issues we had with the Pentagon and Wyatt Hendrickson and just timing issues. but we got all that worked out so we didn't have to see mason but mason paris is going to be there um how they it's going to be a big big night some of the best athletes in the world and you're going to see it uh if you're not in that state college pennsylvania area around penn state you can watch it on fox nation so check it out hey i signed up for fox nation i'll admit i didn't have that app prior to real american freestyle but it's like eight bucks a month i'm not missing it you shouldn't either this is not a pay-per-view opportunity, it's on Fox Nation. It's included with everything else on the

streaming service. You're going to be blown away with Real American Freestyle. I was to the next event, be a part of history, October 25th, Penn State University. It's going to be a blast. Eric, speaking of a blast, I'm looking forward to getting your take on this news that I guess Deadline.com broke earlier this week. If you're not familiar, that's a Hollywood trade, if you will. They cover all the big stories, including Canaan Thompson's production company called Artist for Artists, is now developing a biopic, however you want to say it today, about the macho man Randy Savage.

This is awesome news for big wrestling fans, and we know a few years ago, you were working on a Hulk Hogan project, but have you ever even heard of a Randy Savage project? This is kind of exciting to me as a wrestling fan. No, this is news. For me, I've been a little bit out of the loop, kind of heads down on some other stuff. But this is news. The first time I'm hearing it. I think it's great.

You know what? I don't know if it's biopic or biopic either. And I figured I'd learn which one it was just dancing around Hollywood and pitching deals from time to time. But even in Hollywood, these people are in this business every day. Some of them it's biopic. Some of them it's biopic. I'm going to go with biopic just because it's easier for me to. remember for whatever reason i think it's going to be great i love you know i love documentaries

biopics biopics take your pick because you get so much deeper you really learn so much more than you do in a typical scripted drama feature so i i really am looking forward to this i think randy's had such an he had such an interesting life you know interesting family life his father you know in the Angela Puffo in the business with his brother just a lot of story there and I think in the in the right hands the right storytellers who spend a lot of time doing the research necessary to make something like this really feel alive if they can do that Randy's a great subject and and the audience will love it hey Eric I do want to ask you know a lot of us have never worked in Hollywood you have so when a report like this comes out that a project like this is in development. I don't necessarily want to set

the false expectation. I think a lot of fans are immediately going to say, well, when does it come out? This is really announcing that they're just starting that sort of thing. Is there, what are the odds this even happens? And hypothetically, if we did see it come to fruition, when do you think there actually might be a product for us to look at? Is that next year? Is it years from now? Set a realistic expectation in that regard i i'm no expert but i would say meaning i'm not in the business every day but from hey i got an idea let's do that idea let's call our PR firm and get a headline in variety or deadline or wherever from that point to tickets on sale to go see it tomorrow night minimum two two and a half years hmm now if there's already a director in place and there's

already a script in place and you've got your writer well you'd have to have your writers to have a script but if you've got your director that's usually the first big announcement because nothing else really meaningful happens till after you get a director you don't go out and hire a writer and then a director generally it's kind of of both those things like to happen around the same time or at least get your director in place first because the director really has so much control over the finished product right including agreeing and deciding upon testing for example they usually have a lot if you know a hundred percent to say about who's who's going to be writing the movie if you bring a director on there's already

a script guess what script's going to change so usually the first real announcement isn't like Hey, we got an idea. It's, hey, we've got an idea and here's our director. That's when you take it pretty seriously, especially if the director is a well-known director, because then everything else kind of falls into place afterwards. But even that, if there was a director in place and a writer in place, I can't imagine it happening less than two years.

I do want to ask you, Eric, you know, the report is that I guess the original script for this was written by his brother Lanny, who unfortunately is no longer with us. do you think that is there a chance that we get I don't know a different version of the story because it's from Lannie sometimes I guarantee I guarantee you will I don't even know I have no idea what I'm talking about specifically about this deal but I bet you what I'm about to say is right and I bet a lot of money on it that script was out

I don't know who I don't know where Lanny's who's in charge of Lanty's a state. Don't know. But if the production company, artist for artists said, hey, there's a script available in the rights that go with it. Let's buy the script. Once you buy the script, you can change the script. Once you buy the script, you can throw the script away and write a new script because the rights come with it. So the value wasn't in Lanny was a friend. So I'm not being judgmental here certainly didn't see the script but chances are since lany wasn't a film writer script writer um it was probably a good idea and an interesting idea but that script would be completely overhauled by a director and a in a writer so what if artist for artists purchased that

script. What they were really purchasing was the rights that came with it more than the words that were on the 97 pages that were a part of the script. I appreciate that. I think that's something that a lot of us who hear this news wouldn't have considered. I know you're not involved with the project and I'm putting you on the spot here, but we know that once upon a time you had Mr. Hemsworth lined up to play Hulk Hogan. Hypothetically, who would make a good Randy Savage?

Is there somebody even out there? You look and you think, hey, that guy might be able to pull it off. That's a cool thing about Randy is, you know, Hulk was larger than life. Other than Chris Hemsworth,

who's going to play Hulk Hogan? Right. Right. So that's a cool thing about Randy. Randy was my height. Randy was, I'm 5, 10 and a half technically. Randy might have been 5.11 and a nickel, maybe, but he wasn't 6, 4, 6, 5, 6, 6, 6.6. That gets a little hard to find actors that are good that are that big.

Because most actors are generally pretty small. You know, Tom Cruise, you could pick him up, put them in your pocket, take him for a walk. He's a little fella. A lot of leading men are actually quite, quite, average or smaller than average um so when you get bigger your roles are harder to find um but with randy he's you know you could find physically you could find a lot of actors that could physically play randy with a little help good trainers you know what i mean um and he's got that voice man anybody who knows anybody but you know what i mean he's not a hard voice to figure out

out. So I think that opens a door to potentially a lot of great actors. I wouldn't be able to, you know, start throwing names around because I'm not in that world. But I just would believe there's a lot of good actors that are out there that could nail that role. You know, one of the things I've had to kind of think about is how interesting would this story be from a mainstream perspective? And I think pretty interesting when you consider that, you know, it's the family story because we know how close. he was with his dad and his brother and his reluctance to just go right into the family business instead he pursues a baseball dream that's americana as it gets then he falls

back into you know the family business and somewhere along the way he meets the love of his life and that has a tragic end and there's this love story attached to it as well and then a tragic ending it does kind of feel like he's this is a made for hollywood story but i've never even really considered that. Do you think if this movie gets made and if it has the success that we hope that everything that Keenan Thompson does, because we're big Keenan Thompson fans around here, no

relation. I don't know if you can tell, but just a guess. Do you think that the success of a Savage film may lead to renewed interest in a Hogan film? Well, there was a lot of interest in the Hogan film. It was

really unfortunate. And I've never talked about this, right? I won't go through the whole deal-making process and how it all came to be. It's too long and not really that interesting. But I ended up talking to Scott Silver, who's a writer for Todd Phillips, who is the director. Got them excited. Todd Phillips is a huge wrestling fan and a major, major, major Hulk Hogan fan. Couldn't wait to do the movie, right?

Scott Silver was a writer who worked with Todd. They were like a partner, writer-director of partnership. Still are. They did the last two Batman movies, for example. Todd Phillips did a lot of other really successful stuff. So to the point we were talking about earlier, A-list director, Todd Phillips at that point in time, was probably one of the, if not the hottest director in Hollywood.

He was making the most money and putting out the best films. Scott Silver, same category as a. writer, which made it easy. I didn't, there was no way I could get Chris Hemsworth. That wouldn't happen. But because Todd Phillips was attached and Scott Silver was attached and committed to the film, it made it, they, their agents went out and was able to get Chris Hemsworth, right? Just because of the quality of the director made even approaching someone like Chris

times were possible. And of course, he jumped on. Scott Silver wrote the script. It took about a year and a half. I worked with Scott on and off in developing the script. Hulk loved the script. I mean, loved it. Scott Silver told me it was the best script that he's ever written at that point.

And the one he was most proud of and was most excited to make. Todd Phillips couldn't wait to make the movie. remember everybody got excited Chris Hemsworth jumps on board variety does a big press thing story comes out supposedly leaked I don't think it was I think there was an agent involved but hey what do I know um everybody knows it's coming it's coming it's coming COVID hits shuts down the film industry worldwide nobody's shooting movies under COVID that took that put everything behind two years all of the things that were in pre-production, when COVID landed, all of a sudden got put on ice.

All of the stuff that was in the middle of production, a lot of it, they ended up figuring out a way to do it in post with CGI and other computer animation because you just, you couldn't put actors on a set. And that put an absolute stop on Hogan felt. Now, while we're stopped down because of COVID, the clock is ticking on Hall of. steal. Netflix wrote a sizable check to halt for the option for his rights. That option was a two-year option, I believe.

I never saw the contract, so I'm just going by what I think, not by what I know. There was a two-year option. Well, that movie got delayed and stayed delayed right up to the point where we were right up against that we Netflix was right up against they had 24 hours or less to get a check to Hulk in order to retain their option for another year or two or whatever it was they missed the date by 12 hours technically they were in breach or they weren't able to extend the length of the deal which means

that was the end of the movie now the re you know it begs the question why why if we had Chris Hemsworth one of the hottest actors box office at the time

Todd Phillips A list director one of the top if not the top at the time Scott Silver same Hulk Hogan I mean, great script, Hulk changed his mind. And the reason I found out subsequently, actually recently, was Hulk really wanted to not only re-engage or further engage, but to maintain a long-term relationship with WWE. that was what was in his best interest

and the best interest of his brand in his opinion because as much as Hulk loved that script it was edgy there were things in that script that certain people would not be happy to see not dirt not you know nothing And, you know, nothing that one would normally expect to come out in a movie,

but the way certain people were positioned, the way stories were positioned, the perspective that was going on at the time, there would have been some people that may, may have taken exception to it. And Hulk just didn't want to take the risk. He didn't see the upside in doing the movie. to be worth the risk of putting himself into an off-balance relationship with WWE because of the movie and how certain people were portrayed in the movie. So Halk just said, you know, long-term, I'm just going to let the movie go away.

And he did. It's really unfortunate because I actually have one of the few copies of the script that exist. and it's a great script. It's absolutely fantastic. My opinion, it would have done a, it would have put Hulk on the map even for, I mean, it would have just catapulted him even further than he is now. And as far as his concerns about how other people would have taken it,

we disagreed on that point. But nonetheless, we'll never see that movie. And do I think we'll see another one? I doubt it. I don't know where Nick Hogan's head is at or Sky, Hulks now Widow. I don't know where their heads are at on this, but it's a rights issue. And I don't see it happening. I don't see a writer or director going, hey, I know that thing almost got off the ground last time with Todd Phillips and Scott Silver.

And it didn't work out. So let's us take a try on that Netflix thing in the budget that they had. for that movie it was a budget i don't see somebody coming along and saying man let's us give that a try but maybe you never know things change so fast anything can happen eric can we uh i don't know so forgive my ignorance i'm just asking but since the movie's not going to be made and it feels like it's a dead issue could we talk about and show some of the script here on 83 weeks in the future or is that against the rules no i wouldn't do that that would that would be highly inappropriate it's not my work and somebody else's work so me sharing

somebody else's intellectual property would be really shitty oh no i i want to be clear i wasn't saying against their wishes i'm curious do you think would it be possible for us to have a guest cameo one day and break down a scene or something like that i think people would be interesting because i don't know if you remember but several years ago a script leaked about a vince mcmahon movie and they had a scene where Linda was a waitress in a bar and that's how they met Andre and it's kind of a weird deal not all the way on the up and up not exactly how things happened but that script was at least out there and I know fans would be fascinated by it but again I'm not trying to take away from anyone's creative genius but if we could highlight a clip here in the coming

weeks or months or whatever with I mean what I would have to do is talk to Scott silver and get get him to sign off on that and if he did I will and if he won't, I can't. I just think it would be really fun if we could break down. I'm not even saying a controversial scene. I mean, if that's what we want to, that's cool. But I just think having an idea of what a Hulk Hogan script

even looked like could be interesting because we've never really done that here before. And speaking of something we've never done before, Eric, I think even you'll be kind of excited about this. We started this discussion talking about this Randy Savage movie. And we all know how successful he was with Miss Elizabeth in the WWF, the Intercontinental title match at

WrestleMania 3, the mega powers and becoming world champion at WrestleMania 4, the mega powers exploding at WrestleMania 5. And you just think about all the history that happened in the WWF, and then he did it in WCW and had great matches with Rick Flair, again, partnered with Hulk Cogan, a part of the NWO, helped make DDP, just a fantastic run through wrestling. But I don't think a lot of fans know that it almost didn't happen. You know, he and his dad were promoting an outlaw promotion, and they started taking jabs

at Lawler's promotion, the Jerry Jarrett territory in 79, and it built to an incredible match, four years in the making with all kinds of backstory, and we'll debut it next week on Jeff Jarrett's podcast, My World. We've found the footage, and we're going to show that for the very first time ever. That is awesome. That's really cool, Conrad. Good for you guys. I can't wait for everybody to see it.

We've got a little trailer right now, Eric, check this out. Coming up on the next My World with Jeff Jarrett. Jeff and Conrad will take a look at some unearthed footage of the very first match between Randy Macho Man Savage and Jerry the King Lawler from December 1983 at Mid-South Coliseum in Memphis. Exclusive footage, courtesy of our friends at Ultimate Classic Wrestling. Classic Wrestling updated weekly at Classic Wrestling.net. Save 30% by using Conrad 30 at the checkout.

Join us at myworldpod.com. Like, subscribe, and smash that bell, and don't miss a thing. Eric, we're excited because we've got a Memphis historian who's going to be joining us, Mark James, who's written more books about Memphis wrestling than anybody. He'll give us the context of what exactly the Pafos were doing and how they started really calling out. I mean, this is an outlaw promotion, like they're running newspaper ads, running opposition in this territory. and at first Jerry and Jerry just ignore it and then years later they realize hey business is down

we need a shot in the arm what if and so this was not exactly the NWO storyline but here you are you have this outsider coming in and people wondered hey what's going to happen we'll watch the match together for the very first time next week right here on my world and I can't wait for you guys to go check it out and shout out to the folks who found this footage and are allowing it to for us to show it to you go right now to classic wrestling.net use the promo code conrad 30 and you'll save 30% off but if you just want to check it out for free and see if you like it and want more of it be sure to check out my world this coming tuesday i mean how cool is that dude we found the first match ever with lawler and savage it really made randy savage i'm fired up

for that you should be that's really cool and you know i mean hats off to you for you know to locate the footage and putting that deal together and getting somebody to jump on and talk about it with you because that's a that's a slice of history you're going to be able to dive into that I haven't heard or seen anywhere else. So that's always a great opportunity. Well, speaking of something you haven't seen or heard anywhere else, hey man, if you're like me, we've all had to learn the hard way when it came to maybe someone stealing our identity or someone getting a hold of our card and fraudually making some spends and chores and then we're like hey wait a minute what is this that doesn't feel like that was

me what you need is built in card security that keeps your money safe and gives you all the protections that you expect you see when it comes to your money you deserve to feel safe from fraud and in control and that's exactly what you can expect from cash app when you get the cash app card not only do you get a ton of perks and benefits like exclusive early access to nationwide concert pre-sales or discounts on popular brands, but you also have the extra security with the power to instantly lock or unlock your card right from your phone in just one tap. You see, if a suspicious transaction pops up on your card, Cash app has your back by automatically declining the purchase and sending you a heads up to confirm if it's you or not.

And behind the scenes, you can rest assured knowing that your account balance is protected by 24-7 fraud monitoring, and if something ever fills off, you have the ability to lock your card right from your phone in just one tap. With Cash App, you can spend, save, and live your life knowing that your money is right where you left it with advanced built-in security protections that you can count on and help when you need it. Spend with peace of mind today and order a cash app in the app or at Cash.com, forward slash card. And right now for a limit time only, new Cash App customers can use our exclusive code to earn some additional cash for real. Just download Cash App and use our exclusive referral code at Secure 10 in your profile.

Send $5 to a friend within 14 days and you'll get $10 dropped right into your account. Terms apply. That's money. That's Cash App. Cash App is a financial services platform, not a bank, banking services provided by Cash App's bank partners, prepaid to debit cards, issued by Sutton Bank, member FDIC, instant discounts provided by Cash app, a blockink brand. Visit cash.com, forward slash legal, forward slash podcast for full disclosures. All right, Eric, so now I'm excited to talk about this because, man, I feel like we've dissected the NWO forwards backwards. By the way, what did you think of the new theme music this week, Eric?

I just, it just, it was macaroni and cheese for my ears. I loved it. It was awesome. I don't know why fans and I mean you and I love that song too but it stands out above a lot of other like if I'm scrolling through social media and I hear that song I almost become like Pavlovian like oh that's the NWF theme I don't know why that is but I think that's really cool it's you know I'm the same way with stairway to heaven whenever I hear that song it immediately throws me back to probably 16 17 years old driving around during the summer in my 64 Ford convertible, Galaxy 500, chocolate brown, tan interior, white convertible top, chrome meg wheels, awesome car, 390V8, glass pack, so it sounded good.

Yeah, that's what that song reminds me of. It takes me back to those moments. And I think that's what songs do. They take you back to a moment. And I think the moment with the NWO and the way it came on, as strong as it came on, as overwhelming as it was as quickly as it became part of pop culture. That song just brings us back to that feeling in that moment.

That's why I say it's people have macaroni and cheese for your ears. What is that? Macaroni and cheese is like my comfort food. I see. I just want to go back to like when I was a kid and, you know, just give me some mac and cheese and a tuna fish sandwich and I'm happy as can be, right? That was my jam back when I was eight or nine. and every once in a while

I'll break out the macaroni and cheese but when I hear a song like the NWO theme you know the beginning of this it's like that comfort food for my ears so I dig it well we're here to break down and examine why is that so

yeah yeah okay it's not happening anymore so here we go I think it was because the audio was coming through I think we heard my playback on Eric's computer. Okay, I'll let you cover it up here. Three, two. Well, what we're going to examine today is Eric's top five reasons the NWO failed in

WWE. We know it was a bonanza for business in WCW. Clearly Vince thought or hoped it could do the same for the WWE, but by February of 2002, well, it just didn't go according to plan. And everybody has a different reason why it didn't work. We've heard from Kevin Nash on his podcast. We've heard from Bruce on his podcast. But now you're going to hear from the guy who helped orchestrate the original

NWO. Why didn't it work in the WWB? And we'll start with number five on Eric's top five reasons. The NWO failed in WWE. And Eric, you told us before we clicked record today that it was a different audience. The WWF fans didn't want to boo the NWO because it didn't. and fit with any aspect of the original NWO. What do you mean there?

Nothing about, I mean, it was just, it was, it wasn't set up properly. It's a little bit like the Sina rock situation that we were talking about. It just started off wrong. The audience just wasn't, that had to be set up properly with the NWO for the story and the character of the NWO. If you think about it as a, just a brand, that brand represented anarchy, right? Turn shit upside down.

Find something to break and break it. And the way it was introduced, eh, it just, it was dead on arrival, to be honest with you. The audience just wasn't prepared. They didn't know how to react. They were confused. it's the worst thing you can do to an audience is confuse them it's yeah just the audience

what I really meant was the audience just wasn't ready for that story because it wasn't introduced properly I do want to ask you know what it have ever been possible to bring these guys in and then be heels I mean at this point they're all well established in the WWF I mean you had Hulk Hogan you had Diesel you had Razor Ramon but also let's not ignore the success of the NWO it was so impactful it changed and helped create the attitude era. But specifically, it feels like anytime there's a returning star, there's always the big star reaction.

Like whether they're a good guy, they're a bad guy, we're cheering because a big star is back. So with the NWO, the original version, we knew that they were here to be heels, but it feels like they're getting a hero's welcome just because, hey, we love these guys.

We love the act. It's just, well, they love the act. Look, just because it was a, the WWE audience, keep in mind back in the day when there was, you know, four million watching Nitro and four million watching raw simultaneously.

There wasn't really eight million people watching. There was probably five million people watching that were bouncing back and forth and were getting tracked by Nielsen accordingly, right? So it looked like, you know, there was double the audience, but there really wasn't. There was a lot of duplication in that number. And what the duplication is will never know, or at least I never will. And neither will anybody else that's honest with you, by the way. But a large part of that WWE audience that night, when the NWO, quote, unquote, invaded

WWE, they were just happy to see the NWO. And because they weren't set up his heels, they reacted to them as returning, hey, stars, Hey, the NWO's here. That's cool, too. Wow, what a party. Who's going to show up next? There was no setup. There was no reason for them to react any other way than, hey, there's those guys that

were so cool over in WCW. And now they're here, we got them too. Yay for us. That's the reaction you got. People were happy to see them because you didn't do anything to set it up properly. Let's move on here to number four on Eric's top five reasons, the NWO failed in WWB. Somehow Kevin Nash didn't even wrestle at WrestleMania.

Instead, Scott Hall lost to Steve Austin and Hogan lost to the rock. Boy, this is not exactly the way to introduce a new idea. Hey, they're here and they're taking over. Well, not really. We're not going to book them all. And the two of the three that are booked, we're going to beat them. This feels like the damn invasion all over again. We learned nothing from the invasion.

Did we hear it? no nothing and i you know i never really talked to scott or kevin or hulk about what went on creatively who is responsible for what and why and what was going on behind the scenes creatively with it i've never had those conversations with any of those guys certainly scott and hawk when they were alive and you know maybe kevin and i'll talk about it next time we see each other but again i keep going back to the way to set up the whole mr mcm thing what say you're going to do what that was such a bad idea. I'm sure we'll get to that in more detail.

The fact that Kevin didn't wrestle, my sense is that somebody had a really good idea in the beginning and for whatever reason it started falling apart very quickly and then it was probably not long after it got started was, oh God, okay, this was a mistake, let's get out of it as quick as we can with as little damage as possible. that's what I think you're seeing. You know, what's interesting is the suggestion,

well, maybe it wasn't a suggestion. There was a report by Wade Keller in the torch way back when that said something like, when the first meeting was held with Hogan Hall, Nash, and Vince McMahon regarding the matches for WrestleMania, Nash's feelings were hurt that McMahon didn't have anything in mind for him. The working idea was to do an angle with the Undertaker, but since both are heels and the match might be a disaster in the ring,

making both wrestlers look bad, they decided to go a different route with Nash. Taker is now wrestling Rick Fleer at WrestleMania. So I guess once upon a time, we could have had Undertaker versus Kevin Nash. Maybe they were concerned with ring rust or conditioning or whatever, since everybody involved had been on the sidelines getting paid, guaranteed money for years at that point.

But that's what's interesting, were for over a year, almost a year. But I guess that's what's interesting is we didn't have that concern if that was even a real report about Scott Hall or with Hulk Hogan. I had always heard the rumor in innuendo was Kevin Nash was the insurance policy in case Scott Hall couldn't keep it between the ditches, so to speak, because we all know that he had some issues he was working through at the time. And just to hear, hey, we know you're the world champion and you were our world champion

too. And we're just going to have you as the backup plan. I think it's natural that if you're Kevin Nash, your feelings might be heard a little bit, huh? if that's true i don't put a lot of it doesn't sound it's not something i would buy into very easily uh doesn't sound right to me but if it's true of course i just don't think that was it what would you have done hypothetically would you have tried to and i know that we're reverse engineering it now and and you you don't as a rule love fantasy booking but scott hall and

Kevin Nash. I mean, we knew them as the outsiders. We knew them as Holland Nash. When the NWO was at its hottest, you had Hulk Hogan as a single and those guys as tags and they were running roughshot. And then you bring Xbox in and he's battling for the cruiser way. And it felt like, hey, these guys are after the titles and they've got great representation in every division. Would you have brought Holland Nash in to the WWE as the tag team or would you have tried to do the singles thing like they did? I would have tried to do the singles thing like they did. I would have tried to do the singles thing i i i would have it doesn't mean he wouldn't have tagged him when appropriate or necessary creatively but as far as building them and building their stories i would

have done it individually well we know that unfortunately kevin nash had nothing to do that year at russomania let's take a look at number three on eric's top five reasons the nw o failed in WWE. Start at the beginning. The opening promo. It almost feels like they're there, almost Eric, to just have fun. I mean, specifically,

you've got Hulk Hogan in the backstage area asking for Scott and Kevin to take a picture of him with the rock for his son, nasty Nick. They appreciate a little Nick Bala shout out, but in WCW, these guys were here to take over. They were the sworn enemy. They were attacking guys

backstage and lawn dart and dudes into production trucks and the police were being called and now even though you're going to be my wrestling mania opponent let's get a picture backstage is this too inside baseball or are they asking us to not suspend our disbelief enough why does this come in at number three for you it feels like listening and looking at some of those slides it feels like somebody was writing and producing this for cool as opposed for story and heat it's like yeah there was a point in time when the NWO were so hot they were cool it was cool to like the bad guys more than any other time in history of professional wrestling name me another heel that in the course of their heel things

were getting cheered to the extent that the NWO consistently did, so much so that the baby faces in WCW were, including the ones at the very top, staying to be specific, came to me and said, I don't know what to do. You know, we've been taught to tell stories, ring psychology, you know, we do what we do, but none of that's working out because the audience is cheering the heels. What do we do? It was a conversation like that.

And it wasn't adversarial. It was like, oh, wow, this is different. What do we do? The NWO really changed that dynamic. And yes, it was cool. The NWO was cool and chilled and laid back about 1998 after they'd been around for a year and a half for two years. Before that, they were pretty vicious.

Mostly they were dangerous. And that was the intent to make them dangerous. Yes, they could Google. do cool shit if they're dangerous while they're doing it. And if they're not in the act of being dangerous, then we have to be able to smell the potential and cut it with a chainsaw. Then you can be cool. But to just do the, hey, frat boy, bull, let's do Joe, Joe, do, bro, don't bogey.

Hey, can we get a picture, dude? That's how you're introducing them. There's nothing dangerous about that scene. There's nothing that's going to make me think, wow, I wouldn't turn my back on those guys. The way I saw that scene and the way you described it to me, I don't know. It's just like who was steering that creative ship because they weren't someone who was really tuned into why the NWO even got off the ground in the first place. Beyond the obvious. Oh, it was the Hulk Hogan turn?

No, it wasn't. It wasn't the Hulk Hogan turn. Hulk Hogan turned because Hulk Hogan volunteered to turn and take Sting's place because the angle had already taken off and Hulk saw where it was going. He had enough of an instinct to realize where it could go, right? This introduction, opening scene of the first quote-to-quote angle

or Act 1, if you will, was eh. just eh and that's about the best way you could describe the whole attempt going forward eh all because of the way it opened up hey listen up if you own a handgun for self-defense your storage well it likely fits into one of two very frustrating categories it's either locked away meaning it's safe or it's out of reach in case of an emergency or it's unsecured leaving it vulnerable to anyone stopbox usa solved the problem and designed a groundbreaking solution, the Stopbox Pro. With the Stopbox Pro, you'll never have to choose between security and readiness again. Its ingenious push-button locking system gives you fast, reliable

access when every second matters, without the hassle of keys or reliance on batteries. It's 100% mechanical, so it works every time, and there's no power needed. With Stopbox USA, you can finally have both security and readiness. The Stopbox Pro's mechanical keyless system allows for fast, secure access without the risk of fumbling for keys when every second counts. It's also battery-free, so you never have to worry about your lock not working, and you never have to worry about tariffs because everything is sourced right here in the USA. Stockbox even has their manufacturing facility here in America. Speaking of America, the Stopbox Pro, it's also TSA compliant.

How about that? For a limited time, our listeners can get 15% off at Stopbox. When you use our code 83 weeks at checkout, head on over to Stopbox, and use the code 83 weeks for 15% off your entire order. After you purchase, they're going to ask you where you heard about them. Please support our show and tell them we sent you. Let's go to number two on Eric's top five reasons that the NWO failed in WWE. I think it's fair to say by this point in 2002, the NWO brand had been super diluted by WCW.

Of course, towards the end of the run there, we had done every iteration. perhaps most forgettably the last version NWO 2000 and listen great collection of talent but it just didn't go anywhere Brett Hart Scott Steiner Kevin Nash and Jeff Jarrett I mean when I look at this Eric it doesn't even feel like the NWO I mean I know technically Jeff Jarrett was in it and technically Brett Hart was in it but when I thought Brett Hart was Billy Kidman go back to that previous picture Super Dave I'm looking at that, I go, man, Billy's got a bigger neck than I remember. I thought it was Billy Kidman from going, where did,

when did Billy Kidman join the NW? I think a lot of people think that about Brett. When did Brett join the NW? Like, I don't know. I know it wasn't necessarily your creative, but it is forgettable. No, it wasn't anything close to my creative. That was just dumb, whatever. Was it possible?

I mean, listen, And when you, when you have a strong idea, an industry's changing idea, like the NWO, but it limps along to the point that it's just not good like the NWO 2000 was. Is it salvageable in O2? Could you have brought it back and put a fresh coat of paint on it, as Bruce would say? You know, always you can, you're only limited by your own lack of creativity and or patience. Could it have come back? Absolutely.

Absolutely, it could have come back. But it would have taken time. It would have taken a lot of planning. We've taken a lot of patience. You'd have to let it breathe. You'd have to let it go away. You'd have to let people mourn to the extent that they were even willing to mourn at that point. Most people were willing to just go, yay, finally it's over.

But you'd have to get to the point where, to a degree, absence would start to make the heart grow just a little fonder, if not more forgiving. and then find a way to bring it back. And it would probably be a dozen ways you could come up with by tomorrow that would start to sound exciting. Sure, it could have. But nobody wanted it bad enough. Nobody saw the future in it at all. And if they did, they were probably looking at a very short term.

Let's get a hot three months out of it, see what we could do. It would last grade, if not. So what? we made some money move along to do another one somewhere down the road but so yeah could have been could have been resurrected when you look at that original crew that we had you know Scott hall Kevin Nash and of course Hulk Hogan the other person I think about what that original NWO is six Sean Waltman now when they start this Sean Waltman's already employed with WWE when these three guys signed in February of 2002.

If you were booking this, would you have had Waltman join them? Or would you have tried to stick with this storyline? Because that's what we're going to get to in a moment is the way they were introduced. But it does feel like maybe Sean Waltman could have helped be the, the straw that stirs the drink in that group. Because he's a guy that you could get the heat on, right? In wrestling space.

Well, and he's also, I mean, Oh, I really, I don't want to do this, but just bear with me, fantasy booking for just a second. If the idea was, okay, let's bring in the NWO, don't just bring in the NWO and have them show up as the NWO, right? Have Kevin Nash come back to WWE or Scott Hall or however you wanted to set them, let them dribble in, let them come in one at a time over a period of a couple weeks or months if you're patient enough. and you have enough planning in place. And then let create, as best you can, kind of a natural, organic feeling, you know, somewhat authentic, create some scenes where there's a little bit of back and forth about, you know, yeah, I know back in WCW and the NW,

you got away with that shit, but you can't get away with it now. Just that kind of adversarial dialogue somewhere along the way with a couple people and then you just all of a sudden start over a period of weeks or whatever a couple weeks three weeks you start seeing Scott and Kevin and Hulk not calling themselves the outsiders but effectively as far as camera work in the way they're being treated on camera and in commentary they're kind of on the outside looking in they become the outsiders without ever calling themselves the outsiders and then let Sean come in and stir the pot a little bit and bring those guys back together again as the NWO

born out of the fact that there's resentment from the past. It's a half-fields and McCoys, I guess, right? Yeah, it started out. Everything was okay, but now they're going back to their old ways again. Kevin's being selfish. Hawk wants everything for him. He's not going to cooperate with anybody. Just build on the story that was told originally, or at least something close to it.

but let that story evolve organically and then it could have worked. That's one way it could have worked. Well, let's take a look at Eric's number one reason why the NWO did not work in WWE. And I think this is probably the biggest reason of all. They were brought in by Vince McMahon and the quote unquote poison to infect the WWF because of Vince feud with the other quote unquote owner of WWB, Rick Claire. this is literally the exact opposite of the way the NWO was created in WCW.

They were here to take over and ruin WCW, and we needed WCW wrestlers to stand up to it. Now we've got a maniacal owner, so we're trying to, I don't know, transpose the Mr. McMahon character and the NWO and squish them together, and this worked for us and that worked for them. God damn, pal. Let's put them together. Is that how we get here?

I don't know how we got there or how they got there. Thank goodness I didn't have anything to do with that car wreck. But I'm going to be clear. I have the utmost respect for the accomplishments of one Vincent K. McMahon. You and I would not be doing this podcast. We're not for Vincent K. McMahon. There's no question in my mind when I say that. However, anybody that thinks that this guy was like the creative genius, Vince was good at picking out other people's ideas and figuring out what might work.

Coming up with his own, I'm not so sure about it. I never really saw that part of it. And maybe he was. I just never saw it. I did see him, however, filtering a lot of other people's ideas and then taking either one or maybe a couple of. of them and merging them and melding them together and coming up with his version of some of the things that were being presented to him, which is, that's called collaboration, by the way, that's a good thing. So this is not a criticism. But what I'm about to say is, because no matter

how smart you are, no matter how creative you are, no matter how much everybody thinks you're a freaking genius, you're still going to come up with some really stupid ideas. This was Vince's stupid idea. Whether it was his idea originally, and he just forced everybody to go along with it, or whether he took two or three ideas that he heard and he liked and tried to merge them and meld them together, as you said, and this is what they ended up with. Either way, it was stupid. It was really stupid. And it's the one of, I mean, you notice my top five reasons. They were all kind of interconnected. I mean, it really was the setup of the story.

And now we're talking about the premise of the story. The premise of the story is ridiculous. Nobody bought into it. It didn't fit Vince's character. No matter how much he tried to twist it, turn the character, and he always the evil maniacal one. All right, you can try to sell that. Some people will buy it.

First five rows will buy it. After you get past the first five rows of ticket buyers, they ain't buying that shit. so it was a bad idea that only got worse in execution but yeah right out of the shoot it just stunk to join up well we want to hear from you guys why don't you think the nw o worked in wb drop the comments below let us know if you're watching here on youtube at 83 weeks dot com or just look for 83 weeks on youtube and let us know in the comment below what are your top five reasons or matter of fact what's your number one reason that you think the did not succeed in

WWE. Isn't it interesting Eric that I think we all agree creatively this was a failure but boy if you take a look at those merch numbers even now in 2025, it feels like the NWO is always like a top 10 seller even with a quote unquote botched angle

in WWE. Respectfully they're not selling those shirts because WWE knew what to do with the NWO. They're selling those shirts because you did. I still think it's I don't know, unfair. not that that's even a real thing that you don't participate in that that hogan hall and nash participated but it was your idea and you're not getting royalty checks on that what the fuck

yeah that's you know when when the original idea when i came up with it um and was involved in it i was an employee of turn of broadcasting as as an employee especially as an officer uh as president um i didn't get royalties on anything i got a salary it was a good salary. I got stock options. I got a lot of other cool shit that Pallum didn't get. But I didn't get royalties. And I didn't go over with Scott and Kevin and Halk to WWE during the time period we're talking about.

Had I been a part of that group, I would be getting royalties because I would have gone on board and gotten a cut of the NWOMERS just like they did. But I wasn't. I wasn't a part of it. So I get to sit back and have Kevin tell me. me each and every time he gets a six-figure check for his NWO merch. I do want to ask, you know, with the benefit of hindsight, I think a lot of people watching this, I freestyled, hey, it would have been cool if Waltman had come in with the group. But I think a lot of people maybe would have taken this more seriously.

And I would even suggest that the number one comment for our video that we're recording right now for 83 weeks.com is going to be Eric Bischoff should have been there. If Eric Bischoff was a part of this NWO, it would have had a greater chance of success because then it would have felt like a real threat. Like at that point, you've not yet debuted with the company. So if you come out with them now, it feels like, oh, what is this? Eric's got his group. Vince has his group. Let me ask you.

What was the date? When did Vince introduce the NWO as the February? February of. oh too and you came in in January same year you came in months later and they they messed that up because that would have worked yeah that that actually could have worked yes I don't know if it would no it would have worked pretty well because I had a lot of heat a ton people lost their mind when you showed up on night on Monday night row yeah they would not have had the cheering problem had I kind of led led them through the front

door so to speak or the back door. Yeah, that's too bad. That could have worked. And I would have got my royalty check. I would have been even better. Here's what we're talking about. You come in in mid July. So we're saying March, April, May, June, July. Five months later, and this thing works. Yeah. It feels weird. And if you'd have come in five months earlier, you might be getting those royalty checks today. Timing is everything. It either works for you or it works against you. Damn it. Well, let's Listen, I got to ask, and I know we're not trying to necessarily bury anyone, but I do want to ask, were you approached? Why didn't you?

I mean, as the story goes, they called, and by they, I mean, Jim Ross. Is what really happened? Jim Ross called, and that's why I was asking you about the timing, Jim Ross called me over the 4th of July weekend, leading up to the 4th of July, whatever it was eight months before right and i passed 2001 so we're in this we're four months removed from wcw going under and they call right around the fourth of july they call okay i passed four months later six months later five months later they call i go in right do i have that timeline right well i think you come in and you come in in july of o two so they would have called a year prior if you're saying july of oh one yeah it would have been a year prior and and perhaps the reason

they didn't call me for the angle i don't know is i'm sure jim ross let him know that i i passed and declined and not many people decline an opportunity to come to w e in a in a high-profile way um i've already talked about the reasons why i did um So I'm sure if my name came up creatively, somebody said, hey, why don't we, why don't we bring him in with Eric? I could be like, screw him. We offered him a gig and he turned it down. Could have been that.

Or Vince could have been so excited about him being the evil maniacal. I'm going to bring him in to kill my own company. I'm going to follow a bad idea with a worse idea. The other owner of the company, Rick Flair, nobody's buying that. That's not a believable story. not to the extent you want to give people permission to suspend their disbelief

without feeling stupid right Flair McMahon competing owners of the company anybody that they know if they believe in that story they're going to feel stupid

so it's just a story you don't really care about it it's okay we'll watch it whatever but if you can make the story believable it changes everything. But they didn't. That Blair and McMahon, two competing owners, whatever that story was. And that didn't work out so well. So we're going to follow it up with an even dumber story. Something that is even less easy to, to digest as a story.

Hmm. Too bad. It is interesting because I think a lot of people wonder, hey, why didn't the invasion angle work? And we've said, hey, because they couldn't get. at the big stars, but you would have made that angle better. You certainly would have made this NWO angle feel even bigger. I can't help but wonder if we could rewind time. What would it look like if you walked out with those guys at no way out? What could have been, man? Well, that's going to do it for Eric's top five reasons.

The NWO didn't work in WWE. All right, by now you've heard Eric brag about how important and how, I don't know, impressed he is with Signos. I don't know that we've had a sponsor that has helped really educate and change the life of Eric Bischoff more than Cignos, and I want to drop some stats on you why Eric thinks it's so important. Did you know that 73.6% of adults here in America are classified as overweight or obese? Of course, I'm among them.

88% of Americans are classified as metabolically unhealthy. And global diabetes diagnoses are projected to reach 1.3 billion by 2050. See, here's what happens. When you eat carbs, your blood sugar rises, and your body releases insulin to shuttle that sugar into your cells for energy. But if you're insulin resistant, well, that sugar doesn't get used properly. It lingers in your bloodstream. And that's when weight gain, fatigue, and long-term health risks start to build.

Maintaining a healthy weight in blood sugar range can reverse this cycle, and that really is where Cignos comes in. Cynos packages together an AI-powered platform for deciphering unique metabolisms with a continuous glucose monitor, we call it a CGM or a biosensor. And that enables us users to see how food choices, timing, activity, and even sleep can affect their bodies in real time. Now Eric has no doubt about what's going on with his body. He wears it on the back of his arm, I guess you call it his tricep, and he gets the data

instantly 24-7. You'll actually learn which foods actually cause spikes. You'll get in the moment alerts when your glucose is rising. Plus, you even get personalized suggestions like, hey, maybe take a quick walk. You'll finally understand the difference between physical hunger and stress eating, and you'll feel more energized throughout the day and even sleep better at night. You can get personalized science-backed support to reach your health goals. And here's a fun fact.

we make like 227 different food decisions a day. And imagine how much easier those decisions could be if you had personalized data sort of guiding you along. I'm a believer in this product. My wife has explained it to me in a way that I can understand. I'm trying to do that to you guys here now. I'm using a Cynos. I want you to use a Cynos.

And we've already heard from Eric how effective it is. Eric feels better than ever and has more energy than ever. And that's apparent with all that he's doing with Real American Freestyle. So if you haven't already, I want you to know that Signos took the guesswork out of managing our weight. It's giving us personalized insights as to how our bodies work. They use this AI powered app and the biosensor and together Signos helps me build healthier habits and stick with them. And right now, Signos has an exclusive offer for our listeners. Go right now to Signos.com. That's SIG-NOS.com and get $10 off select plans with the code 83 weeks.

that's signos.com, and the code is 83 weeks for $10 off select plans today. All right, so Eric, it wasn't all rainbows for WCW. We know that the NWO was certainly the biggest lift in the history of WCW. And Goldberg, man, he carved a niche out and obviously DDP and all of that. But when we go back, I think we can all agree that WCW never turned a profit without Nitro. But Nitro was still trying to find an identity. before we really established what I think most fans would settle in to become accustomed with the NWO or the WCW formula.

Like for so many years on Monday Night Raw, we knew that Triple H or somebody is going to come out and cut a 20-minute promo and then we're going to get a match made for tonight, blah, blah, blah. It sort of became paint by numbers. On the WCW side of things, we would usually see a lot of cruiser weights in the first hour and set the table for some stories, maybe an A story and a B story and maybe even a C story throughout the rest of the night. But when you're first starting Nitro, those early growing pains, man, it's not all a home run.

You know, we're going to take a look back at 30 years ago this week. And we've got our usual three-man announced booth. All the Kripe picks a win up over Disco Inferno. It's a short opening match. Then we've got a taped interview with Hulk Hogan and Jimmy Hart. and Hogan is really trying here as we're getting ready to build towards Halloween Havoc 95 and he's talking about this nameless giant because we haven't yet named him as the big, mean, nasty, stinky giant.

Then we see Mean Gene Oakland interview Lex Lugar and Randy Savage and they're replaying their confrontation from the prior week and Lugar is really one of the more nuanced characters in wrestling at this point. He's not exactly a hundred percent baby face or a hundred percent heel. He was always a loyal friend to sting, even when he may have been otherwise an effective heel. What can you tell us about the way Lex Lugar was booked in this era, Eric? Because it feels like by 95, there aren't very many shades of gray.

We've got good guys versus bad guys, as Vince McMahon would famously mock in 97. But in 95, you're really starting that. he's a bad guy except when he's with sting and you're only really doing that with lex why were you willing to take that chance on him because that's a chance that a lot of creative types may not have done in wrestling at that point because i was literally watching from week to week a new lex luger kind of unfold is the that period of time when when lex showed up in september of 95 to 96 97 it's like every time I saw Lex, I saw a different side of his character that I liked even more. They were subtle. It wasn't like he didn't do anything drastically different.

But his attitude, I mean, across the board, Lex's attitude backstage was completely different. He smiled when he talked to you. And he actually talked to you, not at you. he'd have a conversation as opposed to making a comment to you, right? Everything about Lux changed. And it also changed in the ring. The way he carried himself in interviews, changed.

I think, looking back, I didn't notice it this way then, but I think he had more confidence. Lex came off more confident. Not in his character, what is his look, not that. I think he just became more comfortable being lex and more comfortable in WCW. Maybe felt at home there for the first time. You know, when he first got the WCW, it's like, oh, the grass is greener, WWF. You're not really a big star until you make it to the WWF.

We got the WWF, and it wasn't a greener pasture for him. It is for many, but it wasn't for him. And I think coming back to WCW probably felt more comfortable, and as you got more comfortable, he got more confident. I don't know what it was, not a shrink, but all I know is every Monday I would show up and I'd see Lex work and I'd have more fun than I had watching him the week before. So it was kind of, let's see where this goes.

Let's see what this character becomes. Let the character evolve and see what we can tap into as opposed to the same Lex Lugar character that we'd overexposed and WWE overexposed for so long. Next up on the show, we would see Kurosawa, Penn, Craig Pittman. That was a unique matchup. Meagin Okerlund would then interview Brian Pilman and Arn Anderson.

Arn is a couple of weeks removed from his singles match on pay-per-view at fall brawl and that was a singles match against the nature boy Rick Flair. And now you see Pilman laughing and mocking Flair's woo and Arn't Anderson's laughing at Rick Flair. Of course, we're setting up Flair and Sting to be in a tag match against these guys. And of course, famously, darn it. Rick Flair would turn on Sting again. speaking of sting wcw saturday night was promoted for sting versus johnny b bad for the u.s heavyweight title

that's unique because at this point they're both baby faces but i am curious i know that you can't help but position saturday night which has previously been your a show as the b show how much pressure if any was on you from tbs because we know nitro's on t and t bs tbs still has saturday night Did everyone in the Turner organization understand by the very nature of prime time during a weeknight versus Saturday afternoon, TBS has to be the B show now? Oh, yeah. It was no, I never, Jeff Carr was, I think he was a program director at TBS back in the day and was the original kind of liaison between the network and WCW. He was our network executive as I referred to today. We'd hear from Jeff every once in a while prior to Nitro.

He'd like to let us know that he was, you know, keeping us aware that he's watching our numbers and all that kind of stuff, just doing his job. But once Nitro hit, I never heard from Jeff. Never, I don't think I had one conversation with Jeff Carr after Nitro hit. And everybody, I mean, it was by default. Just scope of budget, I could shoot a two-hour episode of WC. W Saturday night for about $120,000, um, if that and nitro cost about $500,000 at the time. So 450. So just by virtue of the budget for it, it became the number one show.

Next up on the show, we would see Randy Savage in there with, uh, the zodiac and then eventually Kevin Sullivan would take over. Savage gets the wind by D.Hugh, but it's because the giant comes down and start. starts attacking him. Mark Starr tries to make the save. Alex Wright tries to make the save. Even Lex Lugar gets involved. Nobody's a match for the giant. We haven't exactly announced him yet, but clearly he's caught the eye of Kevin Sullivan, who's enamored with him, which makes us think, oh, no, he's going to be in the damn dungeon of doom. But at this point, you're on commentary saying, this man has now laid waste to Hulk Hogan, Randy Savage, and Lex Lugar.

you want to talk about debuting a new character as if the size wasn't enough boy knocking down hogan savage and lex man that's how you get somebody debuted right that was hulk and hulk had an idea he was passionate about it he saw he saw andre and paul and he wanted to make sure everybody else saw and paul so the creative behind that and and and a lot of what paul did afterwards for a long time was really not formally directed but heavily influenced by halt for sure our main event that night is ming and lex luger and lex luger remind you now he debuted at the very first nitro and that was a few weeks prior to this so here we are at the end of the month and he's wrestling ming in the main event most people would assume they know what's

going to happen but of course we've just seen lex get waylaid here by the giant, Ming actually beats Lex Lugar in the television main event. So it's a big story. We're really building to Lugar versus Savage next week on Nitro. We're also building towards the Halloween Havoc paper view. But this is at a time where we have yet to really fall into, I guess what we might call the Nitro formula. When do you think if you had to look back with the benefit of hindsight and say,

hey, that's kind of when it really all fell into place. Is it 96? Once the NWO's here, is it into 97? When did you feel like, okay, this is it? We figured it out. I started feeling it. I started figuring it out in my head or just getting a different feel for it. Probably by early 96, late 95, it started to, you know, it's like I started out, okay,

there were certain things that I wanted to, I wanted to, I wanted certain boxes I wanted to check. Story, anticipation, reality, surprise, and action. We won't go through it again. Once I kind of found a rhythm in terms of that formula, just watching the audience react over a couple of weeks and months, it started to give me the ability to even kind of fine-tune just a little bit, turn up the volume on things that were obviously working more than I thought they might, turn down the volume on the things that I thought might work,

weren't really working quite as well, and just started fine-tuning the show. By 96, I felt like we had a pretty good formula that I could actually write down and give to somebody so you could repeat it. You know, change it up a little bit, but you could repeat it. I didn't get that feeling or that level of confidence until probably really about February of March, 96, is when it really started feeling good to me. that was still, of course, in advance of when Scott Hall came down the steps and the NWO started to take form. But as a reminder, in late 95, this is when the WWF was starting to experiment within your house. Their very first in your house in May did a 0.83 buy rate.

They came back for in your house in July to a smaller return, 0.7. And by the time we're back here in September, this does a point. 4 buy rate and that's kind of a big deal because that is going to be the lead in to the first ever live raw so this is the first time that nitro the show we just ran through would be head to head against a live monday night raw the first week you guys were head to head with a tape show was luger and hogan on nitro and you actually edge out raw with a 2.5 and raw got a 2.4 so the first time you go head to head to head with a 2. them they have a tape show you're live you get the win 2.5 to 2.4 we come back the second week and somehow some way the w f wins 2.7 for raw 1.9 for nitro but on week 3 you have those exact same ratings but inversed so now nitro does a 2.7 and monday night raw does a 1.9 but now that you're finally head to head as we're talking it was 30 years ago the end of September the last show of the of the month they're live you're live and you beat them and they're one night removed from a

pay-per-view did that feel like something worth celebrating because i mean the night off after a paper view feels like more people are going to want to tune in to see what happened but you still beat them here was yeah that was a pretty big night that was worth celebrating right that may celebrated again tonight because I forgot all about it. I do want to ask. I don't know that you had a ton of experience with him, but it is worth mentioning that this era of the WWF, they have a lot of influence from Bill Watts here.

You had spent a little bit of time with him here in WCW. Did you have any concerns about his, I don't know, approach to wrestling and how it could affect what they were doing? or did you not really think that Bill was going to last in the WWA? I had zero. I looked under Bill Watts' creativehood and there is nothing there that works in that day's environment. We're talking about, you know, late 90s.

Yeah. Bill Watts, when he was functionally out of design by probably 19, 85. I mean, if for a regional promoter in the South, great. He can make money. And I'm sure he did. But to play at a national level in prime time, Bill Watts was so just disconnected from the audience in television and what works and what doesn't work in television at that time. I'd seen under the hood. I knew what he had. I was not worried about it at all. I didn't know whether he last or not. That's a different question. But. um as far as was i afraid that bill watson is going to show up and make make my job harder because he's such a creative powerhouse no i was the furthest thing from my mind all right guys enter the room dude first blue chew isn't just a tablet it's a cheat code for your crotch stronger harder longer lasting like somebody gave your downstairs a pep talking a gym membership blue chew is the original brand offering chewable tablets for better sex

you know sometimes i take a blue chew to make standing in line easier Yeah, gives me something to lean on. Okay, not really. But guys, we're not just talking about performance here. We're talking about your legacy, or maybe it's your third legacy. Give her group chat something to talk about. You know when you lay it down, they're talking about how it gets up. Nothing makes you more of a legend than a little blue chew.

Go discover your options right now at bluechew.com. We've got a special deal for our listeners. As always, get your first month of blue chew free. Just use the promo code 83 weeks at checkout and pay five bucks. for shipping. That's it. Join Bluechew's mission to upgrade humanity one thrust at a time. Head on over to bluechew.com for details and important safety information. And a big thanks to Bluechew for sponsoring

today's podcast. It's time for the wrestling news update with Raj Geary. Welcome to the show, Raj Geary. Raj, what's going on today? How are you, man? It's been busy, but it's great seeing you guys. How are you guys doing? Man, we're excited that you're here. Couldn't be better. Nice. Well, listen, I know there's some news and notes going on.

What's on your radar this week, Rush? Yeah, I mean, the Hollywood Reporter every month, they kind of release their streaming numbers over how the streaming services did the prior month. And in August, basically since April, streaming has been outdrawing cable, you know, combined cable and network outlets. And for the first time since April, a linear share of viewing increased over the previous month.

Usually it's been dropping from the month before. And streamers actually lost audience share for the first time since January. But as far as the top streaming services go, this is kind of where it gets interesting because it does involve wrestling. In terms of share by TV use pretty much every month, it's YouTube at the top with around 13%. Netflix is usually in second with 8 to 9%. And then you go down to Disney 5%.

And then there's kind of a big drop. You get Prime Video, Roku, 2B, Paramount. And at the bottom, it's Peacock and HBO Max. And that's pretty much the case every month. Usually Peacock is above HBO Max. Usually Peacock has about 1.5% share. Max has 1.4%. This past month, they were tied at the bottom with 1.4% both.

So even though Max rebranded to HBO Max in July, they're still in, you know, in last place, which does kind of surprise me just because HBO has the years and years of prestige that goes along with it with some of the greatest shows of all time, Sopranos, Game of Thrones, shows like that. But yeah, they're still down at the bottom along with Peacock. Do you have any? So what was the stat on HBO Max? What was there, what was it average for the month? So it's not an average. It's the percentage. The percentage of the stream, The share, so that's what I'm trying to get to is it's their percentage of the total share of people, or their share, if you will, of the people watching streaming. And if they're, since we don't know that aggregate number, right, right, we don't know that.

That's a big question mark. It's 1.4% of what? Right, right. Well, well, right. And I guess that's, and the only reason I point that out is because it's nice to have some data, and this data really all it does is give you a snapshot into where each individual streaming platform is on the food chain, so speak, right? But it doesn't give us as fans or viewers any indication as to what that number in terms of viewers may be. B. You know, what is, what is, if the, if the max universe is one point for, one point four percent of the total universe, and we don't even know how big the total universe is, that 1.4 percent numbers is not worthwhile in terms of trying to figure out how many people are watching on Max versus how many people are watching on cable, for example, right? Right. Right.

There's the, the dialogue du jour. That's what everybody wants to figure out and speculate about. So as far as that goes, you know, you have Peacock and Max that are kind of in the same ballpark, that same neighborhood, that 1.4 to 1.5% of total streaming. And it is really hard to get numbers, especially with simulcast, to see exactly how many people streamed and how many watched on broadcaster cable. But we did get numbers for the NFL opener on NBC. That streamed live on NBC. and that also streamed on Peacock.

And that did a total of 28.3 million viewers. And Peacock and the other NFL digital platforms. So not just Peacock, but also the other NFL digital platforms. That accounted for 4.9 million. So that's about 17% with all streaming. It was about 17% of the total audience was streaming that first NFL game. So that kind of gives you that,

kind of 15%ish is probably the number that's probably watching on streaming over, you know, over watching on television. So, you know, again, it is broadcast versus cable, but that is almost every number we see where we could compare streaming to TV. It's usually in that 15% range. Okay. And then to play with numbers, if we were to assume, let's say, the average audience or the reported audience for any program, I won't name a name, is 500,000 viewers. You could then expect that the potential universe for potential viewers is, let's call it, 15% of 500, so 75,000 viewers. Would that be like, if you're going to guess, because that's what all this is, without knowing what the universe is, it's 1.4% of, we don't know, but just using the numbers as you're using them, you could assume that maybe if it's a, if it's performing as optimally as the NFL does, and that 15% number applies, that perhaps AEW's HBO max number is about 75,000 viewers optimistically. Is that fair?

I think 15 on average percent is a pretty safe bet, 20 percent, I would think is a high number, but it's possible. But 15 to 20 percent, again, as we've seen with WWE, when there are on FS1 move to USA, they're in about the same number of homes, but the strength of that network, you know, at USA, they're doing way better numbers on USA than they would do when on the times they were preempted to add. FS1. So again, you know, Max is a weaker streaming service. So, you know, I think if they were simulcast on a stronger streaming service like Disney or something like that, it would be higher. The fact that they're on the weakest streaming service, you know, again, I think 15% is probably around where they're at. Yeah, I know, like your favorite professor, and I know that you, he's your mentor and I, you know, whatever, you know, it talks a lot about, availability you know because a cable outlet is available in 96 million homes

whatever the number is just because it's available doesn't mean anybody watches it if it's not a regular part of your television diet I mean the weather channels probably got more penetration and just about anything out there but it's not like a lot of people watch it right it's a service more than anything else but the footprint is often misleading. People think the larger the footprint, automatically the larger your audience on relative basis. It's not true.

You can have a huge footprint, but if nobody's watching that network for whatever reason, it really doesn't reach any eyeballs. On the chart we were just looking at that showed all the different, you know, the stack of all the different contenders and streaming services, YouTube was at the top. Maybe I should know this, but I'm asking, does that include YouTube TV? Are we talking about the YouTube that you and I are on right now? That's YouTube that we're on. YouTube TV would count as cable and satellite.

I got you. I know that some of our listeners are probably wondering, hey, why does the state of streaming matter from a wrestling perspective? And I know Eric tried to tie it back a little bit to what AEW is doing. Of course, we know WW is on Netflix, but do you, do you still perceive that streaming is the next horizon for other wrestling organizations like would streaming be the goal of an MLW? Would it be the goal of a TNA? What is your sense of that, Rush? You know, that's where everything is heading, right? But it is kind of, you know, people are

creatures of habit. If you go to a sports bar and they're, you know, at least this last season before the NBA, now they're moving, but you go to a sports bar, they're not playing the NBA games on Macs. They're playing it on TNT, TBS, ABC, ESPN. And so I think what, you know, all my friends, when they watch sports, they're watching it on the platform that they're used to. Now, the younger the generations get, the less they're using broadcast and cable. So it is shifting that way. And, you know, 10, 15 years from now, I don't see people subscribing to cable. You know, my kid's generation, I don't see them doing that. So it's heading that way. And it's good to be ahead of the curve. You know, I think, you know, when WWE first signed, you know, signed with

Peacock, I thought it was the right move. It was kind of getting ahead of the curve. And especially with the network way back in the day, I know a lot of people thought it was a big mistake to go OTT as opposed to a linear channel. And it proved to be, you know, a very profitable decision. So I think ultimately it is the right way to go. And there is a lot of money still being thrown thrown around or streaming. It's just still not as popular when you see the dual streams, when it's on television and streaming. For the most part, you're not seeing the same kind of numbers, at least for sports.

Here's why I think, Conrad, and I agree with everything Rush said, it's not that I disagree, but to add a little bit to it. One of the reasons, because your question was, do you think wrestling is the way to go for wrestling companies. And I just interpreted that as new or upstarts, whatever. Here's why I think it absolutely is. It has been for a number of years. Because from a long-term perspective, studios, networks, ad agencies know that streaming is the future. As Raj pointed out, it may be five, eight, ten years. But eventually, cable, we'll talk about cable maybe on a different one, a different show, but streaming

for the last five years has been the focus of so many networks in studios because they know that's where the puck is going. And you want to be, you, you want to be where the puck is going as close to the best time as, the optimal time as possible, right? You don't want to get there six years after it's kind of hit its stride, because now you're playing catch up. So you want to optimize, plan, be prepared, and have your footprint as strong as it can be. Once we see that shift really start to happen, and more and more of your big programming is going to streaming. Less and less is available on cable. It becomes very localized, kind of the way it started out in a way, whereas streaming will take over what the networks used to be.

But that, as Raj pointed out, will take some. time. Here's why that challenge is actually an advantage to an upstart professional wrestling company. Because networks and studios see where the puck is going, that's where they're investing all their money. They're taking losses. Look at how many of the, out of all the streaming services, take out YouTube and Netflix, ask yourself, do some research, I'll save you the time. How many of them are making money? The answer is none. but they're investing boatloads of it because they know they have to have the content in the library to drive that streaming platform when it hits its stride, not five or ten years later. So all of their development, not all, a large portion of developmental money that used to go for developing new content for linear.

Some of it is being dedicated, a lot of it is being dedicated to streaming platforms. Netflix decided to go into live action. Why? Because that's where the puck is going. Are they going to be making any money on it in the near future? Fuck, I don't know. But here's what I do know. They know where the puck is going and they want to have that footprint.

Even upstart wrestling promoters could take advantage of that same situation. You're likely to get more of a license fee right now from the right streaming platform, depending on what their appetite is and what you're offering is. you're likely to get more money from a streaming platform that delivers a fraction of the audience of the cable network who's not going to offer you as much money, even though they have a larger audience potential. So this evolution of streaming should be way more exciting for young producers and upstart wrestling companies or MMA companies or freestyle wrestling companies for that matter.

you know, some of this is, is what I've experienced over the last couple months. Eric, I want to ask you, you know, there's been people inside the tent of TNA for a few years now who have felt like we just need a better TV deal. And we saw Carlos Silva earlier this year sort of call a shot say, hey, we're looking for $10 million as a rights fee. They're looking for a better network deal. We know they're sort of co-opted with WWE. Allegedly, WWE gets for, you know, first right of refusal to match an offer. I believe I've heard through the grapevine. I don't know that this is necessarily a secret,

but they are actively shopping for a buyer or investment. Do you think that they should perhaps adjust the sales a little bit and not be looking for a TV deal, but instead look for a streaming home? Is that the play for TNA? Conrad, you won't remember this. And I wouldn't expect you to, even though you have one of the best memories of anybody that I talk to any regular basis. But when you and I first started doing this podcast and TNA first became a rumor at Turner Broadcasting, I said to you, because you asked me a question that sounded something like, hey, Eric, you know, if it were you, you know, would you be interested in? Or did you be excited about, you know, TBS? And my response to you was something like, yeah, it's a great opportunity, but I'd be looking at streaming. I said that five years ago. If you go back, if someone

wants to go back and zero in on that time period before it was an AEW was announced on TBS go back and listen to the couple shows when that news first broke you can figure it out if you really want to and I talked about it then and the answer is the same as it is right now is absolutely I would if I was in TNA right now I would be look I'd be excited to talk to anybody that was interested in giving me a platform right CW absolutely there's there's There's a party going on over there. If I can be adjacent to that party, I'd love to be adjacent to that party. But barring a situation like that, rather than taking what looks like a pretty good deal with a halfway decent cable outlet that isn't going to promote you no matter what they say to you, unless it's really part of your deal, and you're getting something other than remnant, you know, ad sales time at 3 o'clock in the morning on Tuesday.

I would be, I'd be looking a lot more favorably at a good streaming deal that's got a bright future as opposed to being a Band-Aid for a cable outlet that used to do really, really well. And it has good distribution. You know, they're an 86% of the U.S. or 90%, but nobody's watching them. And nobody's going to start watching them because you're there. You're just going to go down, hopefully, over a long period of time with a sinking ship, as opposed to planning for the future and taking a streaming deal. That's what I would be looking seriously at. Hey, life happens fast. One minute you're driving home after work and the next, you see the flashing lights in your rearview mirror.

Your heart skips, your hands tighten on the wheel and you start asking yourself, what do I do now? That's when you need someone on your side. And with the legal buddy app, you can connect with a local attorney in seconds, not hours, not days, but right when you need them. Whether it's a DWI, a car accident, a criminal charge, or even just a ticket, The Legal Buddy app puts real legal support right in your pocket. Imagine having an attorney on call ready to help guys' youth

or some of life's most stressful moments. This is not a call center. This isn't a waiting game. It's direct access to a lawyer who understands your situation and your community and one who can step in right away. Think about this. When trouble knocks, do you want to face it alone? Or would you rather have the confidence of knowing a professional is already on your side?

That's the peace of mind that legal buddy gives you. And here's how easy it is. Download the legal buddy app at legal buddy app.com. Register today and use the referral code legal for your chance to win a $250 Amazon gift card. Life is unpredictable. Accidents happen. Tickets happen.

Mistakes happen. But when they do, you don't have to go through it alone. The legal buddy app, always on your side, download the app today and enter the referral code legal. Raj, we're on the heels of a big wrestling weekend. Of course, last weekend we saw AEW present their opportunity. opportunity. And you could do that on a traditional pay-per-view basis. It was the first time that they offered pay-per-view on HBO Max and, of course, Amazon. But this was also the maiden voyage for WW and ESPN. Have you heard any response as to how ESPN receive those numbers? Are they happy? Or do we have any sort of feedback on that event yet? Nothing at all. And usually you would get like some sort of press release outing something. And you know, with Netflix,

It did take a couple of days before something got sent out. But, you know, as of right now, we haven't received anything. And I do think, you know, I mentioned this last week we were talking about it. I did feel like more people will right now, will be watched, you know, would have watched the last WWPLE on Peacock than ESPN because it's going to take time for people to subscribe, get used to that service. There was a lot of confusion. So I can see it, you know, not being a home run yet. You know, I can see it taking time.

But it is also smarter to be doing it this early. ahead of time. So by the time you get to the Royal Rumble, you get to WrestleMania, you got the Kings worked out, everyone knows how to get it. And then a lot of the people, you know, that have Xfinity, YouTube TV, other services like that will probably be able to access it as part of their subscription. So my guess, unless we hear something in the next day or two, is it wasn't, probably wasn't a gigantic home run. Hey, Raj and Conrad, I haven't been paying attention, but, you know, there's a lot of speculation about how confusing it was going to be. W.W.D.E. did a thing with, you know,

Ron Killings, Our Truth, you know, making it look so easy. So what was the, what was the feedback after the event? Did people have as much trouble as some people thought they would? You know, I didn't see that much, you know, online as you would have expected. You know, like during the, like during the Tyson fight on Netflix, it was just people going crazy online over, you know, Is there stream not loading correctly or freezing? So you definitely hear the feedback immediately, but you didn't really see it that much of people not knowing what to do to order it. Because everybody was looking for that.

People that love to get online and bitch were definitely looking for it. I didn't see it either, and I didn't do a lot of surfing this weekend. But I haven't even seen anything today, and I was checking today. It's maybe a much ado about, maybe our truth. was telling the truth, man. Maybe it was that simple. Or maybe that many people didn't sign up. Respectfully, you know, the troubles that they had on Netflix for the Mike Tyson

fight, well, it was included in your subscription. But a lot of people would have had to go sign up. I don't think there's a huge crossover. I know there is some crossover. I don't think there's a huge crossover between folks who have Netflix, who automatically have ESPN plus. I feel like Netflix being the most profitable and maybe the only profitable streaming service for a long time, it feels like their adoption rate.

It's just going to be available, and I know you say that doesn't matter, and I get what you mean, but Netflix is on so many more devices, I think, that that would lend itself to that, whereas this, even though it wasn't a pay-per-view, and Raj was correct and pointing that out last week when I suggested, hey, these are the folks who just said that PLEs are a dead issue and nobody does pay-per-view anymore, but this kind of feels like a pay-per-view. It's not exactly, but if you didn't already have that bundle of services, you did pay $30 last weekend. And I don't know if you saw Eric, but I did see a lot of critical backlash.

But Raj, what do you make of that? Like, fans were really unhappy, and I felt like perhaps this was a coming out party. If you go back and you take a look at the very first Saturday night's main event last year, I think a lot of us had really high unrealistic expectations. And watching the show, I realized, hey, wait a minute. And this show isn't for us, the hardcores, or as Tony Kahn might call us, the sickos. This show was to introduce WWB to a new audience. Is that the way you felt about Russell Toulouse or what did you make of the negative

feedback we saw online about the event? You know, I think some of it is the lack of surprises. Wrestling fans, they love surprises. And so when you have a Royal Rumble without any surprise entrance, people instantly say it sucks. It was a disappointment. And Triple H before the show tease that there would be surprises at the show. And there really weren't any.

So I think that kind of raised some expectations for some fans and brought it down. I mean, I thought exactly what you said, Conrad. It was supposed to be an introduction. I thought they did a great video package at the beginning. I was dumbfounded with how that Brock Lesnar John Cena match went. But the rest of the show, I thought was a good show. I thought they should have ended with that AJ League. BCM Punk match.

But overall, I thought it was exactly what it should have been as far as introducing, uh, introducing this product to potentially a new audience. Eric, I do want to ask you, you know, when he touched on it, Ross touched on it. So now's a good time to talk about it too. The John Cena retirement tour, a lot of people were kind of frustrated with this past weekend. I mean, they even, they had more press for this show than any show besides WrestleMania all year. I mean, they were all over ESPN to the point that last Saturday on

game day, which is a staple amongst college football fans before they picked football games, Eric, they picked, who do you have the night, Brock Lesnar or John Sina? So that's about as prime time and mainstream as you can get. But then before the bell rang, we saw Paul Heyman reunite with Brock Lesnar and Brock Lesnar pretty much just ran through John Sina. And I kind of thought and assumed the only way this makes sense is if in John's final match he finally beats Brock Lesnar and overcomes him and maybe that's the story is that he'll beat Brock in his last match but Brian Alvarez has come out and said that is not the plan they've wrestled for the last time and John Sina just took an asswhip and on his retirement tour people are upset by this

you used to book for heat Eric what do you think of that creative If this story going forward is, as you previously laid out, and this ends up with John and Brock and John's final match, and John finally overcomes, it's a redemption story. Yes. I love redemption stories. They always work for me. If it's a Disney redemption story, I'll actually shed a tear or two.

If there's a dog involved, I'll be a bawling idiot. So I hope that that is the case. If it's not the case and it was just what they did that night, that would be worrisome to me. That would be worrisome to me because that, look, I don't want to speculate. I don't like doing that. I don't like when other people do it, so I'm not going to speculate. But if it's part of a story, I think it would be a great story because redemption's always worked. If it wasn't part of the story and it was just, well, here's what we're going to do tonight and why.

Not good, but we'll find out. Raj, have you heard the rumor in innuendo that allegedly that creative was changed the morning of? Eric, I don't know that you saw this, but there was a report that said going into the show all week, creative had it that John Saino was going over. And allegedly, that changed that morning. What do you make of that, Raj? Have you heard that? I did hear that online.

I haven't seen that reported, you know. know, by P.W. Insider, or Fiple, or some of the other larger, larger, or credible, credible, I'll say it for you, credible, fucking credible. Yeah, credible sources. But, you know, I just think it doesn't, you know, people at this stage of Sina's career, fans don't want to see him getting murdered on his way out. Now, like, I agree 100% with what Eric said. If it's part of a bigger story where at least resemption, he finally gets that big win, then that's great. That's fantastic. But Lesner's a maid guy. He doesn't need this win. We want, you know,

fans want to see Sina play the hits on his way out, have fun with them, and then see him, you know, go out as a hero. And just seeing him get murdered just is not, just seems toned to me. Even if that's what Sina wanted. No, I can't, I get, just listening to you, Raj,

I can't believe that this is anything but a story. Just listening. Because you saw it, listen to you describe it, I can picture it. I can't imagine that this is anything but a story. I hope you're right. I hope. I hope you're right. Otherwise, the dark side won.

Right. Because they are going with AJ Styles next. I mean, that is, uh, seen as next a point, next opponent. So, they'll be fun. They're seemingly moving away. Uh, so we'll see if they come back to Lesnar, uh, for that last Saturday night's main event in December, then, you know, all that hate was for not.

Hey, Eric, I want to tell you, John Sina, because I think this is interesting, as we're recording just two days ago, tweeted this out. I want to thank at Triple H for being flexible here and rewarding the true driving force behind hashtag Sina versus Stiles, the fans. two posts over 10 million views and so many of you let yourself be heard hashtag WW crown jewel Perth and at AJ Styles

you'll get my everything listening to our audience is always what's best for business I'm grateful to all of you for choosing my next opponent LFG to me that feels like there's some politics behind that tweet

what do you think Eric No, I just think it's magic marketing. What he's done is he's made the audience a part of his journey. Yes. He's connecting with the audience in an active, engaging way that no other form of television can accomplish. It's just so uniquely opportunistic for WWE and sports entertainment. And that was a masterful example of how to use social media. to advance your brand, your story, whatever it is you're doing.

That was just masterful. Raj, I want to get your take on the John Cena retirement tour. You know, the only thing we have to compare this to here in America is the recent Sting retirement tour with AEW last year. Earlier this year, we had Goldberg and WWE. And if you want to go overseas in recent years, we've seen Jusen Thunder Liger and Great Muda and now Tana Hashi on his own farewell tour. I feel like WWE fans have been more frustrated with the John Sina Retirement Tour

than perhaps any of those others. Why do you think fans are struggling with this? Does Triple H not know what these fans want? Is he struggling with how do we transition John Sina out? Why are fans seemingly dissatisfied with the Sina retirement tour relative to all these others? I think a big reason is that Sina is the biggest star in the post-aditude era post-aditude era era. You know, he's been the number one guy over the last, you know,

25 years. And I think bands just, even people that hated seeing it back in the day, they want to see him get the big heroes retirement. And, you know, as many times as WWE has done these retirement tours and things like that, it's hard to say how many times they've actually really nailed it. And you look at their biggest legends, you know, Hogan, Savage. They never really got that, you know, really great send-off. And so I think fans just want to see that for Sina.

And, you know, you have a failed heel turn. Right now they're out of dates for Sina, which is why they're doing it's filled with AJ Stiles over social media because they're almost out of his dates. So I don't even know if Sina will make any TV appearances before. before that match with AJ, maybe, maybe one. So it just feels like not the most well-planned out thing. And when it started out with him turning heel with the rock there, it looked like it was going to be something huge. And it's just been kind of a disappointment ever since.

And I think fans just expected more and really wanted to see a great storyline for Sina heading out. Eric, I know I'm putting you on the spot here. But if you were going to give a grade to the Sina retirement tour so far, let's pretend we're in school. Is WW getting an A, a B, a C, a D? What letter score would you give a retirement tour so far creatively? Well, the first thing I would do is check the box office in the gate,

see how the revenues are doing and, you know, judge that against my expectations, number one. But number two, just looking at fan reaction. They tried the heel turn. Yeah, no. And that's a weird one. I think, you know, if you step, if I take that out, they're basically giving the audience what they want, which is a version of Raj's point, which I agree with. People want to see, it's a hero's journey. It's the easiest story long, it's the story that's been told more often than any, and the one that always works, it's heroes journey. And the heel turn attempt, It's like, yeah, maybe the end of the movie ended up being pretty good, but you got up and walked out mentally or emotionally during the first 15 minutes of the movie because it just didn't make any sense.

And you kind of opted out. Didn't understand it. Didn't hit you in the fields the way you thought it would, the way you wanted it to, just felt eh. And it's hard to get it back. So I think that had a lot to do. I'd give it a C. Now, if you take the heel turn or whatever that was, take that out and just look at the rest of it,

probably a B or a C, or excuse me, a maybe an A minus a B. It's been pretty good, except for the way it started. And maybe based on what happened with Brock, I don't know, maybe continuing. I absolutely agree with Raj. I think if they would have set up or just give everybody what they want. is to see the guy go everybody would love to see babe ruth hit his last home run nobody wants to see babe ruth strike out you know what i mean you had if you go back in time how many people would say i want to go back in time i want to be there when babe ruth

grabs his last app app i want to see him strike out no same thing here well john sina over on his instagram posted a pretty classic photo where it's the guy pointing at his eyes. I'm the boat captain now. And I think the inference is he's going to try to put his hands on the steering wheel a little bit here as we wind down the retirement tour. And I think that's well deserved. Good for him.

Creatively, though, at this point, can you still tell a story, Eric? Or is it better to just have a simple celebration of his career? Because we've got so few dates left that makes it more challenging, right? Well, we just laid out a great story here. Right? I didn't go with us. Yeah, that, that, um, could they, sure, will they? Probably not because there isn't a lot of time unless he extends his, uh,

he extends his tour to include WrestleMania and he ends up with Brock at WrestleMania. Yeah, that'd be all right. It's funny you say that earlier today, guerrilla position said exactly that. Granted, we don't know what John Cena schedule is like, but at this point, extending his retirement toward a WrestleMania 42 feels like the logical thing to do. It gives WW more time to atone for the botched heel run at this year's mania event and a proper send-off on the grandest stage of them all feels like the most fitting way

of all of these greatest of all times rather than go out at a Washington, D.C. Saturday night's main event. Raj, what do you think? Is it possible that we may see John Cena at WrestleMania again? Well, they're looking to get, you know, they're getting a site fee from D.C. for this match. And part of that, part of that site fee is based on it being John Cena's retirement match. So it gets tricky. I agree. Just from a fan perspective, that's what I would like to see.

I think him losing, I mean, him having his last match on a peacock special, it's not even going to be on NBC anymore, just on peacock. Just doesn't feel like the right way to go out. if it was on NBC, that's a little different. So, yeah, I'd love to see that. I think WrestleMania, you know, but again, it comes down to Cena mentally. Is he just ready to go? You know, he's been doing this for so long, his body's beat up.

That would be the thing I would be like, because I, you know, I saw a clip of John walking across the parking lot. It was one of those Hollywood reporter type shots. It was B-roll. There was no interview or anything. But I was just watching him walk, and he didn't even know he was on camera. He was incidental in the shot. but you can tell that's a that's I recognize that walk I've seen a lot of guys with that walk and it's usually accompanied by a myriad of other issues so that's a real question is how's he

going to feel yeah I do want to ask you know Raj as we're wrapping up this John Cena discussion you mentioned that DC gave a site fee don't you also imagine that they pulled that lever with peacock like hey by the way if you'll re up and give us a deal we'll make sure it's on broadcast, we'll give you the exclusive rights on Peacock, because they wanted a way to keep WWE fans sticky and not just abandon ship and go to the other streaming services, right? Yeah, absolutely. I mean, for NBC, you know, with how much money they're putting into Peacock, as soon as that ESPN deal was announced, you know, I think it was within a day.

They announced the Peacock, the new Peacock deal, the extension. And they don't want to lose those customers to, they don't want to lose those customers because now the only reason to stay on Peacock is for archives for the next year or until the end of the year. And for these special Saturday nights main event that you could watch on NBC. So by taking away that NBC aspect,

you keep those subscribers, or as many as you can, that won't jump ship. And it makes all the sense in the world for them wanting to make it Peacock exclusive as opposed to streaming it also on NBC or airing it also on NBC. Because otherwise,

I wouldn't cancel my peacock, you know, if I know these specials are going to be on NBC anyway. By the way, a little birdie told me if you go try to cancel your peacock right now, they give you a deep discount for the next several months. I don't know how I know that, but we live to enlighten here on 83 weeks. Oh, I love that. We live to enlighten. We greatly appreciate all of the time today, Raj. How can some of our listeners keep up with what you've got going these days?

Yeah, just follow me on Twitter at DeRodge Geary. and also check us out every Monday night after Raw on Massive Heat on the podcast Heat Network at Watch Podcast Heat Wrestling on Twitter and we do it every Monday night after Raw with Matt Morgan and Jack Farmer so check us out there and again guys thanks a lot for having me on gosh thank you man you you smarten up our show I appreciate it all right take care see we're gonna let Raj go and we'll be right back after these words well something you don't need to worry about either is saving money save with conrad dot com can hook you up

and i'm talking to you if you've got credit card debt or if you're in a 30 year loan if you haven't already gone to save with conrad dot com i got a question for you how old will you be when you pay your house off if you don't know the answer you may not have done enough planning we want to show you how to pay your house off faster with cheaper monthly payments and you don't need perfect credit or money out of your pocket to do this in fact the worst thing that can happen is you spend 10 minutes with us. That's your only investment. And in 10 minutes, if we can't help you, we'll just let you know, hey man, you've got a pretty good deal. Just keep doing what you're doing. But what if we could save your family, 5, 6, 7, even 800 bucks a month? What if we could get you

the cash you need to turn your house into your dream home with no money out of pocket? Wouldn't it be nice to get rid of all that credit card debt? Wouldn't it feel nice to skip your next two house payments? Who doesn't want to save money? Find out how much money you can save right now for free at save with conrad.com. You know, my attitude has always been, if you've got debt, it's up to you how to pay it back. Doesn't it make sense to pay it back at the best possible interest rate and the greatest possible tax deduction with the cheapest monthly payment? That's what we can do for your family with my family at save with conrad.com.

Get yourself a quick quote, even talk to a live person right now at save with conrad. Or email us. Conrad at save with conrad.com or call us toll free at 888 4250105. That's Enimales, number 2129, equal housing lender, save with Conrad.com. And hey, hey, if your business targets men 25 to 54 years old, no better, better place to advertise than right here on 83 weeks. You've heard us do some of the same ads for the same companies for years. Why is that?

Well, because it really works. And with our super targeted audience, there's very little waste. Go right now to advertise with Eric.com. out more about advertising here on 83 weeks. By the way, if you haven't already, hit that subscribe button on all of our different social media platforms and on YouTube, 83weeks.com, turn that notification bell on. And did you know we're at 83 weeks on X? We're at 83 weeks on Instagram.

We're at 83 weeks on Facebook. And now we're even on TikTok. Yeah, it's too sweet. Go check out Eric Bischoff in 83 weeks on TikTok. and we'll see you next week right here on 83 weeks with Eric Bischoff.