83 Weeks with Eric Bischoff - Episode 403: Netflix Buys Warner Brothers Discovery

Episode Date: December 6, 2025

On this special LIVE edition of 83 Weeks, Eric Bischoff is on the mic breaking down the biggest story in entertainment and wrestling, Netflix's purchase of Warner Bros. Discovery. Raj Giri joins the conversation to share his insight on the deal and what it could mean for the industry, along with all the other major headlines from this week in professional wrestling. Easy E also takes questions directly from the live audience, delivering unfiltered opinions, honest reactions, and even welcoming a few surprise guests along the way. It's unpredictable, energetic, and absolutely can't-miss episode of 83 Weeks. STEVEN SINGER JEWELERS - No one does real diamond jewelry better. Experience the difference at Steven Singer Jewelers. Go online to http://IHateStevenSinger.com  today! Always fast and FREE shipping is waiting for you. TUSHY - Over 2 Million Butts Love TUSHY. Get 10% off Tushy with code 83WEEKS at http://hellotushy.com/83WEEKS  #tushypod JCW LUNACY - Juggalo Championship Wrestling drops BRAND NEW episodes of Lunacy every Thursday at 7pm ET exclusively on their YouTube channel http://youtube.com/@psychopathic_records check it out! HARRY'S - Get the Harry's Plus Trial Set for only $10 at https://harrys.com/83WEEKS #Harryspod SIGNOS - Go to signos.com, and get 25% off select plans with code 83WEEKS. STOPBOX - Not only do you get 10% Off your entire order when you use code 83WEEKS10 at https://stopboxusa.com/83WEEKS10 , but they are also giving you Buy One Get One Free for their StopBox Pro. #stopboxpod BLUECHEW - Visit https://bluechew.com  and try your first month of BlueChew FREE when you use promo code 83WEEKS -- just pay $5 shipping. RAYCON - Raycon's going big this holiday season — everything's up to 20% off! Just click the link in the description or go to http://buyraycon.com/83weeksopen   to save on Raycon audio products sitewide TRUE CLASSIC - Upgrade your wardrobe and save on @trueclassic at https://trueclassic.com/83WEEKS  ! #trueclassicpod SAVE WITH CONRAD - Stop throwing money away by paying those high interest rates on your credit card. Roll them into one low monthly payment and on top of that, skip your next two house payments. Go to https://www.savewithconrad.com  to learn more.

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Make it happen today at savewithconrad.com. In a lesson number 212-9, Equal Housing Lender. We are live at 83 Weeks.com, and we greatly appreciate you showing up and hanging out with us. There is a lot of wrestling news, and we're going to get to all of it today, and a whole lot more, including some fun hypotheticals. Of course, we couldn't do it without the host with the most, the one and only Hall of Famer. Easy E. Eric Bischoff. Eric, how are you, man? I am so good.

I'm just happy to be here because I love each and every one of you. people and this time I actually mean it. Well, we loved watching Real American Freestyle Number 3. I know it was a huge success over the weekend. All I saw was really, really positive stuff on social. And you know, there's been lots of boo birds out there in the professional wrestling space who don't really get what RAF is. But how about in downtown Chicago packing more than 5,000 people in the door on only your

third event. And the rumor and innuendo, Eric, is that viewership was maybe at an all time huh? Have I heard that right? Yeah, you heard that right. I think we had close to 6,000 people. The whole lower bowl was sold out, filled. There were some, obviously, comp tickets in there could be as we work with local wrestling clubs, for example, who competed for an opportunity to, you know, be a part of certain things. So we, we utilized as we have so far in all three of these events, but we're just getting better at it. And the word's getting out, right? The buzz is out there. We had some of the greatest

greatest athletes in freestyle wrestling on this show. Gold medalist, silver medalists. You had, I mean, absolutely top level UFC stars. And Chandler and Mendez, obviously, love that, love that main event. There was so much great action for, you know, the freestyle wrestling purists, you know, the amateur wrestling fan. But also, you know, we're bringing out the best of the best in terms of freestyle wrestling experience. an MMA experience. We're getting that crossover and getting great support, you know, from UFC because they have to approve all of these matches. So it's, it's, it's opening up a lot of

doors. And those, those wrestlers slash UFC fighters are coming to us. We're not, there's no reach out on our part. These are people that have seen what we're doing, appreciate what we're doing, happy to see a platform that gives great wrestlers an opportunity to do something other than taking a whack at you know, MMA, which is a, it's a, that's not a journey that you just go down to see what it's like. You've got, it's a big commitment, right? And that's what we're doing. And they, look, if you, you would have seen Conrad, I wish you could have been there for our meet and greet. I was overwhelmed with the turnout that we got, especially, by the way, in the middle of a blizzard in downtown Chicago. Oh, yeah, and we were head to head with WWE that night. Oh,

imagine that and still did such a great turnout the the the meet and greet was a huge huge success everybody had a blast so yeah we we had a good night looking forward to another one december 20th i'm super excited that everybody has an opportunity to check this out and really really affordably as eric pointed out last week fox nation is running a special right now for just a few bucks you can go check out real american freestyle one two and three michael Chandler victorious over Chad Mendez, Kennedy Blades, the new champ. She picks up a win over Rivera. We saw three international stars beat American stars.

Frank Mears daughter Bella was unsuccessful. Clay Guido was unsuccessful. Oh, man, but what a night. He is such fun to watch. I can't wait to work with him. I felt that way about a lot of the telemon on the shows. It was so much fun. Bob Bassett, somebody who you're really, really impressed with, man,

he got a win in like a freaking minute in a pinfall. This guy's got money on him, doesn't he? Against an NCAA, a former NCAA champion. Yeah. And former Bellator champion. So yeah. Oh, and he's just turned 19 years old. He's, he is a prodigy.

And here's the best part. In fact, I, I am so impressed with this young man that I ran into his father just as I was leaving the hotel to catch a flight. And I was so grateful that I ran into him. because as a dad to see a young man, you know, like Bo, because he's not only a prodigy on the mat, he is an exceptionally, exceptionally impressive young man as a person. Take the wrestling out of it. And when you combine what an amazing young man he is and what a great athlete he is,

as a dad, I'm looking for the old man and give him a handshake because his son's doing it on the mat. in on it you know in real life outside the mat off mat but his dad his mom and dad obviously had a tremendous amount to do with who this young man he is and that impressed me as much as his wrestling quite frankly can't wait to see more from him can't wait to see more from real american freestyle eric i think you've already announced the next event when is r a f o four uh december 20th in fisher's indiana in fact i think a e w is in that building um before us at some point. This past Wednesday, they were.

They were there. Okay, I thought they were still to be there. So, yeah, they were just there. But why don't we, check us out and let's compare notes. In terms of the look, look, these are two different products. There's no way I want to get into the apples and oranges, you know, conversation about, you know, professional wrestling or sports entertainment and our version of professional wrestling, because there are two different products that appeal to

two different audiences. Yes, there's some crossover, but you know, you can't really compare it. But just visually, because I was so impressed with our entire crew, our production crew, and the team that organized it keeps all the, as Tanya, one of the team members I get to work with, she's amazing, says she's the air traffic controller. She keeps all the planes, you know, coming in and landing without crashing into each other. That whole aspect of what we do, being only our. our third event. It's running like a Swiss watch compared to what I would expect it to run like. So I'm sorry, I'll quit talking about Real American Freestyle 3. If everybody promises me to check out 04 coming your way, can't wait. It's going to be awesome. It's two weeks from tomorrow.

I can't believe it. They're running them back to back and what a card it is. Wyatt Hendrickson, who most of the world saw earlier this year when the NCAA title, he is going to be returning to defend his championship. Bo Nickel, who we bragged about a lot on this show, he'll be there, Kennedy Blades will be there. And somebody I was very impressed with at RFO1, Sarah Hildebrandt will be there. This is about as loaded of a card. I thought the third card was big, but from an amateur wrestling standpoint, you've probably got even more stars on the next one two weeks from tomorrow, don't you? Yeah. I mean, it just keeps getting better and better. And I do have to make a note on Sarah Hildebrandt. She, um, I believe she has a shoulder or excuse me, an elbow injury that may

or may not prevent her from participating. We're going to keep you updated on that. I hope we get her because she is just kind of, and that's the thing I like about this opportunity is I'm surrounded by incredibly positive and high energy. I mean, the athletes, the team that I get to work with, it's just such a positive eye, but Sarah's a perfect example of that.

She's just, she walks in the room and the room lights up. You don't even have to talk to when you feel. feel good just being in the same room with her. She's that kind of a person. And then to be able to go out and do what she does on the mat, it's freaking awesome. I want to get one last plug in because I'm so excited about this new venture you're working on.

I can't believe how quickly you're doing these events. You've got like three weeks between three and four. And then you're going to have like three weeks between four and five. Sunrise Florida with two big names, especially if you're a UFC fan, Luke Rockhold and Colby Covington. I mean, if you've been following mixed martial arts, this would be a main event anywhere in a mixed martial arts category, but the idea that you get to see them at their primary discipline,

amateur wrestling, this is really exciting. It is so exciting. And that's what I mean. And it's hard not to be, you know, at a level 10, which is where I'm at with this,

because of the momentum. And how many times Conrad have we talked about it, you know, on this show? Momentum is incredibly difficult to create, but it's way more difficult to maintain, right? getting momentum is such a huge, huge accomplishment.

But once you really begin to get momentum and you can feel it and see it, the numbers prove it, now you've got to maintain it and continue to grow it. And that's, again, something we've talked about on this show all the time, is if you're not growing, you're dying. And we're in that position now where we're growing much more rapidly than any of us thought, any of us thought, especially me, really, because I've been down this road before. I know how hard it is to kind of create that momentum amongst a television audience. You've got to really know how to hit the right cords consistently to do it.

We're doing it. And now on top of that, they have such great, you know, so many great athletes, MMA fighters coming to us to participate in our platform, it's helping us keep that momentum going and continue to grow it. Highly recommend you check it out if you haven't already. It's real American freestyle.com. That's where you can get all the information about tickets and events coming your way. We mentioned Indiana, Florida, you're on deck.

So you can go grab those right now at Real American Freestyle.com. Or check out one through three right now by subscribing to the Fox Nation app. It's just a few bucks. Why wouldn't you do that? Go download it, hit the button and check out not one, not two, but three events, maybe the best value of this sort. And I know you tuned in the day for a pro wrestling show and we're going to do that. But I just want to put a bug in your ear.

This is going to be one of the next big things. This is almost like seeing the UFC and the info. intensity stages and we know how big of a deal it became and what the crossover was for pro wrestling. I think this could be next. So I do think it's relative for what we're doing. And I think it's a good investment of your time. I love the presentation this past time. We saw Kurt Angle.

We saw Chale Son and my buddy Cyrus Fees. The broadcast keeps getting better and tighter. You know, these guys are getting used to working with each other. They're getting more reps. And you can actually see the growth from show to show. That's encouraging, Aaron. It is. And by the way, shout out to Cyrus Fees, man.

he came in. I, you know, I had worked with Cyrus a little bit, got to know him a lot over the last year and a half or so. Great guy. He knew he had a great voice. I saw him do interviews at BKFC when I spent a little time with him there. But he went into that hot seat on a live show, never really called play-by-play for freestyle wrestling before. He done, you know, MMA, but not freestyle wrestling. Didn't know the nuances. Didn't, you know, I mean, that's a scary position to be thrust into. But he, along with Juliana Pena and obviously Chels Sonan, I think Cyrus just knocked it out of the park. Check him out.

Enjoy Real American Freestyle on the Fox Nation app. And yes, we're going to talk about pro wrestling. But first, we need to make the holidays a little easier with my man, Stephen Singer. Now, he's my man, but all the other jewelers in the business, they absolutely hate this guy. But with the holidays being here, man, Stephen Singer, is the guy. The guy that all the jewelers hate, the guy that you and your wife are going to love.

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One more time, that's buy Raycon.com slash 83 weeks open. That's B-U-R-A-Y-R-A-C-O-N dot com slash 83 weeks open. Buy-R-R-C-O-R-C-E-3 weeks open. It's time for the wrestling news update with Raj Geary. All right, one of my favorite parts of the program, we get to welcome in the one and only, Raj Geary. Raj, welcome to the program. How are you, man?

Good, man. How are you guys doing? Man, we're excited to hear from you. I know you woke up like I did, and your Twitter had to just be blowing up today. I'm sure Eric's was. Hey, what does this mean? The big news in wrestling is Warner Brothers is doing business with Netflix.

What's happening, Raj? What can you tell us? Yeah, kind of a surprise. I think a lot of us, a lot of people were expecting Paramount to eventually acquire WBD. You know, they had been kind of at the forefront

of this whole process. They had made three bids even before this official bidding process began. And then, you know, they made two bids after. And Netflix ended up acquiring them. The deal is that Netflix gets WBD's film studio and the streaming service.

So they get HBO Max, but they are not taking the linear channels. So once WBD spins out those linear channels into a separate company, which would be Discovery Global, that will include TNT and TBS. After that happens, that's when the acquisition is expected to close. So that'll be, you know, it's expected to take place in the third quarter of 2026. And the sale, it was a mix of cash in stock at $27.75 for WBD share.

so that puts the value of the deal at $72 billion, with the total enterprise value at about $82.7 billion. And so as I mentioned, Paramount, they had made five bids to acquire WBD the whole thing. And their last bid was for $30 per share. So more than Netflix, but that included everything, whereas Netflix did not include the linear channels,

which is valued, that Discovery Global, that's valued at about three to $1, bucks per share. So technically, with that three bucks per share, you add that on to Netflix's 2775. It puts it a little bit higher than what Paramount's bid was. So Paramount's not happy. A lot of people aren't happy about this deal. I mean, Trump obviously is, you know, is, it's not a fan of Netflix. He's very close with the Ellison's with Paramount. This is one of the few times you'll see Trump and Elizabeth Warren agreeing on something. So there could be, antitrust issues, regulatory pushback.

So this could be a very long process. But as of right now, Netflix has acquired WBD. And it's expected to, the deal is expected to be finalized and everything happened in the next 12 to 18 months. Eric, you've lived through this before when you hear about that. I haven't. This is, this is way more. I mean, what I went through was complicated at the time, one of the biggest media mergers in history. this one dwarfs that and is way more complicated.

What are the similarities, if any, that you see, Eric, with the whole Time Warner merger back in the day with Turner and this one? Obviously, they're major media companies. They're coming together. Is that the end? You know, the AOL Time Warner thing. I mean, AOL back then was considered more of a tech company. Time Warner was the old school thing.

This is really the same company, but now kind of with the newer, bigger, updated tech company and Netflix. I mean, I know it's not really a tech company, but it kind of is. It's different. It's technology. It's based in technology. I mean, I guess everything is when you think about it, but it has emerged in the new technology of entertainment over the last, what, 15, 20 years.

And look, they spent a lot of money. They bought everything you put in front of them. I know guys had walked in and sold shows that, you know, Nobody else would have ever purchased. They're still buying product. Right now, you can still find stuff on Netflix that no other network cable platform or otherwise would touch. And they fund it big because they want to work with certain actors.

They want to work with certain producers. They want to work with certain directors. One of the reasons that Netflix jumped all over the Hulk Hogan file pick was because Todd Phillips was attached. Todd Phillips, one of the hottest directors in Hollywood at that point, still is. But at that point, he was super hot. So did they, for what they offered to pay for that movie, they were willing to spend between $80 and $100 million on a Holkogen movie that no one else would have spent that kind of money

up. Why? Was it because of Hulk Hogan? Sure. But was it more because of Todd Phillips and Scott Silver? Yep. They wanted to be in the Todd Phillips Scott Silver business a lot more than they wanted to be in the Holkogen business or biopic business.

So that's been their business model for. a long time and it's working clearly. Eric, your agent, Nick, and boy, I'm going to butcher his last name. Can you help me with that? Lopacolo is what I use. I never call him. I never used his last name in conversation. So we'll go with that.

Ophicolo or he's going to call me and tell me he's not going to represent me anymore. We took a stab at it, Nick. We're sorry. We're hillbilly's doing our best. But I saw, he's, his Twitter is really lighting up. And obviously he's a bit of a Hollywood insight. you think so he's got some opinions uh and one of the things he retweeted just a few hours ago says a lot of hot takes today settle down everyone another is you know when they're talking

about the paramount thing alec sherman tweeted out balls in your court paramount how messy you want to get so i think that there is some confusion right now rage we have we've seen press releases that make it feel like hey this is a done deal and it's definitely happening but there's a that this actually doesn't happen. This is going to be a long due diligence period where we're going to operate as if we're all pulling in the same direction. But there is a chance that this deal doesn't close, right, Roche?

Yeah, absolutely. And Netflix actually has agreed to pay a $5.8 billion reverse breakup fee. If the deal is not approved, if it doesn't go through, WBD would pay a $2.8 billion breakup fee if they decide to call off the deal to pursue a different merger.

So Paramount where to come in, and come out with some gigantic deal that made it worth it for WBD to pay that $2.8 billion to get out of this Netflix deal, it could happen. Obviously, the antitrust, the regulatory stuff. There's a lot of things in play, a lot of things that could happen. It could become a real mess. So, you know, when you got a merger of this type that a lot of people are unhappy about in Hollywood, you know, nothing's off the table.

I mean, it could technically still enter. end up with paramount. But, you know, it involves. Oh, I'm sorry. Oh, I'm sorry. Go ahead. No, I thought you were done. My apologies.

I pretty much was. I haven't the gist of it. I killed it. I killed your finish. Great. I finally, I'm excited to do this podcast and I kill my co-host's finish. No one will ever work with me again.

I was on a phone with Nick for about 40 minutes, uh, just before getting on, on this podcast. And number one, I've always known, I've known Nick now for a couple of years. He's represented me for, I think, two years now already. And I knew he was smart. The first day I met him, for a very first meeting,

I was way impressed with how smart he was. And I underestimated him. He, he, this, this is his world. He's so deep into this, and he's got such a great perspective. And so the context that I'm going to give you, the points that I'm going to make here are not mine based on my experience. I want everybody to understand that I am not putting myself out as an expert in this type of merger or acquisition. It's a different world, right? But in my conversation with Nick a little while ago, here are my takeaways.

one based on something Raj just said when he said is there a chance or Conrad your question is there a chance that this thing doesn't even happen my impression in talking to Nick

not putting words in his mouth just the way I took it is it's likely not only a possibility that could happen it's been intentionally structured to die on the vine it's a $5 billion

dollar risk. It's going all in on the process in a way that will give Netflix an opportunity to acquire the assets they want versus the assets they don't want in a more favorable position because of what happens to some of the competition. That's how I've interpreted it. So I would, if I was betting money, I would bet that it's not going to survive. And also why I think that's a good bet. And as you touched on it, And I think it needs amplification because it's probably one of the more critical aspects of this thing actually coming to fruition. Again, it's the way I interpreted this stuff. And it was hard to keep up.

Nick is, he is smart. The regulatory issues that everybody's acknowledging, but I don't think people understand the significance of it and how big of a hurdle that really is. And that is part of this strategic playing, strategic shell game and waiting game is what I was looking for. This is Netflix creating obstacles because they kind of see the outcome. Everybody knows that the regulatory issues are going to be serious, anti-trud, not only here in the United States, that's one set. And you've got politics involved. You got Ellison, you got Trump. I mean, you've got a lot of really high power, very political, very influential, very well, well-funded, rich egos at play here.

And this is their world, this is their game, this is what they live for. So I think the regulatory issues here in the United States, because of what I just said, and now you've got, you know, international regulatory issues that you have to deal with because of the size of Netflix footprint. and what that does to the entertainment industry overseas. So it's so complex, the idea of this thing getting done in 12 to 18 months. I think that's way underestimated. It's going to take a lot longer than that if it ever happens because based on what I think I know or understood, it's been designed to kind of die the waiting game. And I've got a lot of experience in the stock market.

I want to ask you, how much of this is just theater for the stock? I asked that because Warner Brothers today is up 5% Netflix is down a couple bucks. But I'm curious, is this just a stalling game to, you know, level set, some expectations and sort of kick the can a little bit? I mean, I could see. I mean, I think Netflix legitimately wants, you know, WBD. I do think, I mean, you know, the movie studio and, you know, and possibly, you know, HBO Max. It's because with that, they really crippled their competition. You know, by taking that market share, you got Netflix, the last time they reported was the end of 2024, where they reported the number of subscribers they had.

They had 300 million global streaming subscribers. WBD said it had 128 million as of September 30th. Obviously, there's going to be some crossover there. But it really hurts the competition. It really puts them ahead of Disney. So I think they definitely want it. I know a lot of people, you know, getting to pro wrestling, just assuming, Eric, like, if it were, if Netflix did want, you know, this, assuming it's not theater, Netflix wants what they, what they offered for, WBD is willing to sell. And let's just say it didn't face any regulatory or antitrust issues, which obviously is not going to be the case.

But let's just say it didn't. At minimum, it's still 12 to 18 months. So when people ask, like, well, what does this do for AEW, which obviously is on WBD networks, really on the current TV deal, it does nothing. It doesn't affect them at all because their TV deal runs through the end of 2027. It would be highly unlikely that this is all cleared up by then. And even if it is, Netflix so far has agreed to keep HBO Max as its own streaming service. So it's not like HBO Max goes into Netflix and then there's that conflict.

with W.E. and AEW. It would remain on HBO Max. So it really wouldn't have any effect on AEW's current TV deal. So yeah, it really doesn't make any difference for the current landscape. I'll disagree. I want to get a take on that, Eric, but first, I need to brag about Tushy. It's here just in time for Christmas, and we're going to clean up this mess on the whole Turner discussion. But first, let's clean up our rear ends with Tushy. I'm going to tell you what. This has been a game changer in my life. I know Eric's got him at his house too. If you ever visit me at the office or at one of my houses, man, you're going to notice that every single toilet has one of these on it because I believe this is the everyday luxury bidet that everyone needs.

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off their first bidet order when they use the code 83 weeks at checkout. That's 10% off your first per day order at hellotushy.com and the promo code is 83 weeks. So, Eric, you were talking about how you think this could or might not affect AEW? I got to hear your take here. I agree, excuse me, I agree with Raj that in the present, to the end of the existing term of AEW's contract, nothing's going to, nobody's going to come in. Let's back it up.

If this were an asset acquisition or a merger, much like AOL time order was in returner, and they came, Netflix came in and bought them, the whole thing and operated it, as is only under the Netflix umbrella. What would happen to AEW? Nothing. First of all, as Raj pointed out, at a minimum 12 to 18 months, now we're knocking on the door of the end of that agreement anyway, and this is the important point, timing.

Because, no, no, stop there. So I agree under that scenario, it wouldn't be like when our time order came in, or AOL time order, MERS with Turner, and Jamie Kellner came in and said, no, I don't want that and sold it. That's not going to happen. But here's what is going to happen, I think, based in what I'm trying to understand, is that what's really going to happen, because that scenario that we just talked about Netflix coming in and operating the whole thing, that's, that's that's fantasy booking. That's never going to happen. What is likely to happen one way or the other is if regardless of the scenarios,

Warner Brothers discovery is going to get sold. It's going to get broken up. And that process is, that decision has probably been made for a long time. As of right now, that company is for sale or they know it will be or somehow in its current form and will no longer exist.

That being the case, and that's the important point here, because we know it's going to get sponsored, off anyway, they're not going to be investing. They're not going to be writing big checks and making long-term commitments, whether that be for a wrestling company or Real American Freestyle or a movie or a reality television is a series. It ain't happening. Everything is going to hit stop or pause. What does that do to AEW? they're going into the very end of their contract with their existing partner not having any

kind of a serious conversation because they don't know where they're going to end up they need to keep their cost down they need to show as healthy of a bottom line as they can now this is similar again to my experience at a while time warner now you're in a position of managing ebada because eventually your sale price or whatever the whatever the strategy ends up being is all going to be compensated based on EBITDA is your bottom line. So in order to do that, you cut costs and you don't make long-term commitments. That's the position as of today. As of this podcast, AEW is currently in.

Given what's going on in the marketplace, whether anybody believes that Dave Meltzer bullshit or not, I particularly don't. I see through it. And so do a lot of other people I know and know what that deal really is, he's not going to get a fraction of that for a visibly decaying product. When I say decay, I'm talking about numbers. Despite what we're seeing in social media about closing gaps, you're not closing any gaps that matter to anybody other than you.

And the 600 people that watch your show, or 600,000, I should say. say, soon to be 600 based on my math. By the way, wait till the NBA hits. You think things are bad now? Because AEW isn't affected by NBA. Wait till March madness hits. You think AEW numbers are bad now? It happens every year.

It has nothing to do with AEW. Same thing happened to WCW. The same thing continues to happen to WWE, which, by the way, when we're talking about gap, keep in mind that gap that WWE is experiencing right now. the decline in numbers has a lot to do with the fact that their primary show, the lead show, is up against Monday night football. Wait till AEW is up against NBA.

Oh, and March Madness. So the picture for AEW, and this is not a personal thing. This is just math. And having spent a couple minutes in the industry on both sides of the equation as an executive and as a producer. the market is going to be extremely tight and particularly for a show like AEW whose numbers prove that they're losing an average of 15 to 18% of their audience annually with no indication that that's going to change why would it change they brought in every big name they can possibly bring in yeah well you know john see it come flying out of the

helicopter and land an AEW ring eh anything's possible particularly for that audience online. But in reality, is there anything that could possibly happen from a talent perspective that's going to significantly turn things around for AEW? I think past as prologue. We know the answer to that question. Well, if it's losing 18 to 20 or whatever, it is 50 to 18 percent, 20 percent of its audience annually, and there's no reason to think that there's any chance to turn it around, who wants that? So that's where they're really at. And I'm, and, I've just got to say, Eric, I agree 100%. What I was kind of referring to was the current TV deal.

No, and I agree with that. I wasn't arguing with you, Raj, because I absolutely agree with you on the answer. Right. But yeah, what you were saying, you know, again, if this deal were to go through, and just saying hypothetically, well, right now, Dynamite has two things with the max part and the linear part. Well, now it's only going to have one. You know, either, you know, let's say Netflix were to make a deal with dynamite in two years for just the HBO max part. Well, you know, the value is different now, not only with the declines that you had talked about, but also you're not simulcasting it on linear and streaming.

Now it's only on one or the other. And then the same goes for the linear side. And kind of what you said also with WBD, they're rolling the networks over into Discovery Global. and by all accounts, that company is not a gross company. They're not looking to grow Discovery Global. They're looking to sell that company off to someone else. So like you said, WBD, they're not looking to put a lot of money. They're not looking to grow this other side.

They're looking to sell. So, yeah, the next TV rights deal, the next media rights deal is going to be very interesting. but as far as the current one, that should stick in place. Because I think a lot of people were concerned about it being dropped imminently. It's like this thing is going to take a lot of times. They were seeing something that looked like, you know, what happened in Nitro under the AOL-Time Warner merger. Right.

We don't want any more. We're canceling it. I agree with you. That's not going to happen. Yeah. But if it were to happen, I mean, if this deal does take place in the next 12 to 18, months, that's where things get really interesting because does Max, you know, I would assume they want to keep, you know, Dynamite is one of their top shows right now. Do they want to keep it

in two years? There's just so many unknowns with this whole thing. I think the answer was, sure they want to keep it because it's a number six show on the network that day, whatever. None of that matters. Here's what matters. Fucking math. That's all. The rest of this stuff is just, you know, internet wrestling community, you know, discussion points just like I'm doing it right now with you. So I'm not knocking it. It just is what it is. I know what the value of it is, which is nothing other than entertaining ourselves and each other. And, hey, make it a couple bucks on the side. Not a bad day of work, right? But the other point of this I want to make is, you know, we're talking about what's the, if, if, Warner Brothers Discovery says, oh, let's keep operating AEW, even though, you know, we're going to lose one of these streaming platforms. Who cares? Nobody knows what it is anyway. How do you put an evaluation on something that you don't have numbers with, which is another reason it's hard to sell with AEW tap? You have no idea what that platform does for AEW's bottom line.

Nobody gives you any numbers. And that is one thing, yeah, and that is one thing that Netflix will have. They will actually have those numbers, even if Tony doesn't, you know, with the sale, they'll know exactly what it's doing. So they'll have that data point. But if Tony, you know, in two years, when it's time to find a new rights deal, you know, again, if Tony's not able to get those numbers, he's going in blind and all he's going to have is these TV ratings. And we see where they're at. I know Tony Kahn recently said that they're closing the gap at WWE, which was an interesting comment. And, you know, it's one of those things where you could use data to kind of manipulate the situation.

Because he did say it after. As I've always heard, numbers lie and liars can use numbers. You've been different perception using mostly true data, but spun in a way to make you sound like you're actually accomplishing something. Right. And Dave Meltzer, actually, this week kind of defended it by saying the decline has been less than WWE, which, again, is technically not really true. If you look at just last month, November, in 2024, in 2024, dynamite averaged 600,000 viewers with a 0.18, 18 to 49 rating. In 2025, they average 525,000 viewers with a point 11. Now, obviously, this year, we have the big data plus panel ratings that have hurt wrestling.

Last year was panel only. But the drop in viewership was 13%. Drop in 18 to 49 was 39%. Now, Smackdown in the same period, the drop in viewership has been 17%. 18 to 49, 8.49, AEW has had the bigger drop in 18 to 49 than WW. But the viewership has been less. But to highlight what you're saying here. Which, if you remember Dave Meltzer's, you know, like 24-hour, seven-day-a-week vomit of it's the 18-29 year.

That's the only thing that matters unless I don't want it to matter. Right. Yeah. Yeah, exactly. And, you know, again, when you look at the declines, you look at the audience decline at the shows. I mean, you just see it way more with AEWs than WW. I mean, WWE has had a smaller decline. The sellouts aren't as automatic.

But, you know, when we're talking about the TV ratings and the viewership has declined less, still in total viewers, in November, SmackDown's viewership was higher than AEWs by 121%. They did, you know, 162 million viewers. 1849 rating was higher by 155%. So it's kind of one of those things where I had tweeted last night that, you know, I close the gap with the rock as far as physiques go. And that's because the rock slimed down for a movie roll. But, you know, technically I close the gap.

I saw one this morning, one of a follower, somebody in social media said, yeah, it's like me finding, you know, walking down the street with no money in my pocket, finding a $10 bill on the ground, pick it up, put it in my pocket, saying I'm closing the gap between my wealth and shock, you know, well, yeah, you know, there's enough zeros in the alpha. bet we can figure it out but really right so it's it's interesting um and then this it this year will be a it'll be an interesting one to follow you know follow because the the new ratings

both shows have been hurt but smackdown is kind of recovered they're getting close to the you know with the 18 to 49 getting close to that point three range and uh you know i i it they're very close to that's which isn't that far off from what they were doing before the ratings change. It's about 10, 15%. What do you guys think? And seeing what you're seeing, Raj,

and you guys watch, you know, the content more than I do, knowing that SmackDown is trying to shore up that 18 to 49-year-old roster, well, how do you do that? Do you advertise more money outside your product? Probably not.

Too hard to really do that. Do you change? Do you modify your, what you're presenting on television? You start bringing in different, you know, celebrity acts more frequently that are targeted to that group? Do you have more involvement with the current influencer slash performers?

Does Logan Paul get more heavily engaged? And does that expand beyond what we see currently in some way, shape, or form? Those are all, you know, tactical things that we can literally watch for in the coming weeks and months to see how they're improving that 18 to 49. Because, again, my appreciation for professional wrestling is probably different than most in that I do love the business of the business and just the landscape that you guys laid out. What do they do creatively? How would we do it? How would you guys do it?

If you want to up that up, who would you do it with and how would you do it? Not expecting to answer, but think about that because it's kind of, it's an interesting thought. What do you do on camera to get those numbers where you want them to be? Because that's the art of producing television is getting the numbers you want and figuring out how to get there. things that JCP or I'm sorry JCW has done is they've been able to figure out how to get those numbers up. I'm talking of course about juggalo championship wrestling. Let's take look. J.C.W. Lunacy.

New episodes every Thursday night at 7 p.m. on YouTube. For over 25 years, J.C.W. has delivered the very best in pro wrestling entertainment, bringing fans deep storytelling drama, gut-busting comedy, and I'm, unbelievable in ring action from wild characters to unforgettable rivalries don't miss a single moment tune in every thursday night at 7 p.m. on youtube jc w lunacy so i love that that these guys are doing their show on youtube i didn't mean to interrupt you rage but i know we're talking about tony con sort of closing the gap on w w i don't know what else he's supposed to say in situations like that i mean he's here to do a PR tour for his company. He's got to support his wave his flag, doesn't he?

For sure, but I feel like there's some things, something that's so easy to kind of dissect and kind of prove to be mostly untrue. I just kind of stay away from those statements because it does cause more of a more of a discussion online of whether or not that's true. and you get a lot of people just laughing at that statement, whereas saying other stuff to promote your company doesn't. I don't know. I get he's a promoter that's promoting. And saying that does sound good in media to people that probably don't pay attention.

Well, let me play with there, Raj. Like hypothetically, if he's doing an interview and he's here to do media, right? Is he supposed to say, oh, man, we really got our asses kicked this year. We got to get our shit together. Like, how do you, like, you can't say that. So, like, I think you've got to try to put a happy face on. Even when WCW was not necessarily the number one company, Eric had to go on TV and say, we're the number one show, blah, blah, blah, like that's hype man stuff, right, Eric?

Look, did I do that? Sure. Particularly early on when, you know, we were just a small little company that could and we're a distant number two, you know, I went way over my skis, you know, try to, trying to get attention. But here's what I learned. In some cases, the hard way. And I've lived by this today. It's almost a fault of mine now is you can't afford to lose your credibility. When it comes to business, you can, you know, if somebody does like your opinion and doesn't like the way you dress, you know, I don't like anybody this phone. What the hell was that? I lost my train. I thought

with that interruption. I thought somebody was yelling at me. I've learned anyway. You can't afford to lose your credibility by saying things that sound good to people that don't know any better. Well, those people don't matter either in terms of your future. Their fans or viewers, that part matters. But when the industry, people who make decisions, look at your company, look at the numbers that you currently have. And we're talking about this in the context of renegotiating a deal or finding another home. When the people that do matter who do follow this stuff, see the guy that's running the company, go out and just,

it's not subtle. It's comedy to people that know. That's where it's bad for your brand. And that's where I agree with, with Raj. No, you can't do that. And I'll take it even a step further. And I've said this before on podcast. I've said it in social media.

Dave Meltzer's ridiculously obsessive support to the point of illusion of Tony Conn and AEW has done more to hurt that brand than help it. And then when you put these kind of comments in on top of that, just look at any of the time, just look at any of the comments. on either one of those timelines when they make these statements. It's just overwhelming. It just doesn't help you. Conrad, to your point, I agree with you. Like, if Tony was asked, like, how they're faring against WWE, that would be, you know, something to bring up.

You bring up where you're stronger or where you feel like you're stronger. But in this particular case, that wasn't the case. He just brought it up while speaking about something else. So that's where I feel like the difference is. But I agree with you that if he was asked specifically about WWE, then yeah, he probably should say things like that to, you know, accentuate the positives. Yeah, I mean, I think that's promoter 101,

accentuate the positives, hide the negatives. Let's talk about some other positives that happened this week in the TV biz. Big announcement, Eric, and I know people want to hear what you have to say about this, TNA is going to AMC. So Thursdays are now for TNA. It's Thursday night impact and starts the middle of January. AMC, of course, has never dipped their toe in the water with a real professional wrestling show.

That's not to say that they haven't run specials here and there. We all know that they've done that for decades. But this is not something I necessarily expected, Eric. What do you make of this, T&A on AMC? I think I predicted it. Not necessarily AMC. That caught me by surprise. But I think about six or eight months ago, I suggested.

to do the effect that, you know, I think that they will get a TV deal. I think they got it sooner. I think I predicted 2026. They got it sooner than that. And good for them. It's a big step up for them. It's a great opportunity for them. And here's, I mean, I'm seeing it already.

You know, Carlos Silva is saying the right things. He's saying the right things. He's for a wrestling conversation, baby facing his way into this and maintaining a positive supportive, you know, he's not here to be the number one wrestling company in the world. We're going to save the wrestling world and all that other happy, you know, wrestling online bullshit. He's coming in knowing, you know, he's not even the underdog because he's not in competition. Now, the fact that he's, you know, got a partnership with him as part of that.

But, I mean, even from a positioning point of view, I think he's going to come in. He's going to make, and what I'm really saying, he's doing a great job of, keeping the expectations low. This is where Tony messed up. Tony messed up by setting the bar so high, and he hit it until he didn't. And then the audience is disappointed immediately. Whereas if you keep that, if you manage, and that's an art form too, is managing the audience's expectation while you're continuing to grow it. Don't over promise and under deliver. Promise and make sure you over deliver and do it incrementally over time. Don't try to do it in six months or one year or one night, right?

Make the little adjustments, find out how and why, as we talked about with using, you know, the roster that they currently have to tweet the demos up where they need them to be. That's how you produce television. That's different than putting together matches that, you know, you or your existing fan base even really want to look forward to. see that's yeah you have to do that but that's not how you grow your business we'll see what happens what do you think about this new uh t and a on amc business are you positive or you optimistic what is your expectation for what this could do to t and a business in 2026 uh absolutely i mean

with this deal they're really closing the gap in w e and obviously i'm kidding but it's a multi-year deal um that you know it's been in in the talks for a while and uh So yeah, with this, there are reports that the deal is worth about 30 million, so that I'd probably put it at, you know, 10 million a year, so it's a three-year deal. And the show will also be streaming on AMC streaming app, AMC Plus. So you're getting a huge increase in exposure, you know, with access. There were in under 30 million homes. Now you're going to be in close to 60 million.

61 million was the last count last year, but cable has fallen off so much since then, or more and more, it falls more and more each year. So it's probably more about $55, $57 million. So it's a great opportunity. They're going to go live the first week. They're going to go live. It seems like you're going to go live, it's been taped and live and tape.

So, yeah, I mean, it's the best thing to happen to the company since they got on Spike TV. So, you know, kudos to them. It's been a long time coming. I know a lot of people predicted TNA would be out of business many, many, many, many, many times. And here we are, and they're getting a good deal. It's interesting.

I can't do the math in my head. You guys are both better at that than I certainly am. But if it's a $30 million a year, if it's a $10 million a year deal, there's 52 episodes a year. You can back your way into the cost per episode. I can probably tell you how much money they're making off the show. If I was a little faster with my math,

you just reverse engineer the math. Well, here you go, Eric. If you're doing 10 million a year, it's $192,000 a week. Okay, which is about what it costs to produce that show. In a live tape, live tape production format, meaning the expense is front end loaded. All your airfares, your hotels, all your equipment,

the cost of getting trucks there producing this show. That's all front end, right? So if you can find a way and you can't have professional wrestling because I did it, So did WWE, long before I did, by the way, is you get to your location. You produce two shows, essentially for the price of one. The cost of producing an additional show, once you're already in and you're front-end loaded, that second show is a fraction of the cost of the first show. If you amortize it out, split it, right?

So it would, 200. Could you produce that show for 200 plus? Yeah, in its current production configuration, absolutely. Can you make money if you do it in that live tape format? Yes, you can. And again, I could probably back your rate into what that number is. Not exactly, but probably within 5%, 10%. I can back you into whatever that number is.

It's not that hard. Trust me, if I can do it, anybody can do it. But it makes a lot of sense. And here's what the other thing I want to point out, people often talk about a network with regard to the size of its footprint, how many households it's available in. Thank you. Yes, it's important. What's way more important is how many people watch that network, which really comes down to what is the quality of the content on that network. Is it neighborhood friendly for you?

Are you in the same general category of that content? And this is the key one. How much money does that network spend promoting their product? Otherwise, you know, the weather channel is probably available more households than anything else. You're going to put a wrestling show on a wrestling channel or on the weather channel. I expect to get a number. That's where you've got to kind of be in the same neighborhood,

so to speak, in terms of genre. So, yeah, the size of the availability is absolutely important. But what I think the real advantage here with AMC, this is my long-winded way of getting to the point, the real advantage with AMC is that they do spend money promoting their product. And that will make all the difference in the world. Now, AEW has got a great relationship in that regard. You know, the network spends a lot of, in fact, I think a large part of their, a good part of their contract has a lot to do with the promotion that you see, right? which is probably why you see it. If TNA has even a moderate amount of support from the network based on the way they promote other shows,

look for them to be very competitive very soon. What I think is interesting, I'm glad you zeroed in on what Rosh said about the household thing, because I asked Grock and Grock says 60% of households, or not 60%, 60 million households in the U.S. have AMC television. So 60 million households. 70 million have TBS.

So we know that TNA is going to be technically available in 60 million homes come January 15th. And that EW is going to have dynamite available in 70 million homes. But JCPW on YouTube is in 119 million households. So if we're really talking about how many households and what is the penetration, like YouTube has more than anything. any of them, but I just, I just don't think that matters anymore.

I think I'm with you, Eric. It turns out, hey, people have to want to see the program. And if they want to see the program, they'll find it, whether it's on Peacock or it's on the ESPN Plus app or it's on YouTube, wherever it is, if it's good, they'll seek it out. I guess the next logical question is, Raj, do you think this AMC deal gets TNA one step closer to a WWE acquisition? I think WWE would want to be very careful with doing that because, you know, they want to avoid looking like a monopoly.

There's one thing with, you know, purchasing AAA, but there's another with purchasing another U.S.-based promotion. And, you know, they had that MLW lawsuit years ago and, you know, it was a drop in the bucket for him, but they lost that lawsuit. And so I think they want to be careful about looking too much like monopoly. I think it almost behooves them more to have TNA as a partner than to acquire them. I don't know how much they gain by acquiring them when they already have NXT in the long run. But yeah, I do got to say, I think the, you know, GROC's numbers are a little outdated. TNT and TBS are more around 60 million homes now. And the last thing I'll just say about that is I do think the strength of the network matters

because when you saw Smackdown on FS1, and you compare it to the numbers that Smackdown is doing on USA. USA numbers are just way bigger than what they were doing on FS1. But that being said, I agree with you that ultimately it's going to come down to the quality of the product. If they're putting on a good show, people are going to seek it out. And AMC, you know, they've had a lot of huge hits, you know, with the Walking Dead and Madman and Breaking Bad. So it's a well-known network. And so it's a real deal.

It's not getting on pop TV or Destination America or some of the other deals TNA has had in the past. You know, when Jason Harvey and I were in business together back, and this is probably going back to 2012, 13, somewhere in that area 14. AMC, like if you could get a meeting to sell a show at AMC, because they were the hot network. They were like the new HBO. They were HBO 2.0 in terms of the quality of the content and the quality of the writers and directors and producers that they were attracting,

they really upscaled their content and made a name for themselves in the process as a brand. Now they've shifted programming strategies since then, obviously. But, no, I think this is going to be good because of the new kid in the town, because there's going to be so much curiosity, let's face it, the online, social media presence in professional wrestling, sports entertainment is such that, you know, AMC probably really doesn't have to do a lot of promotion going into this because it's going to spend the next couple months promoting itself. It'll come out of the shoot fairly hot. Pretty sure. The question will be, how do they maintain that momentum? As we talked about

earlier, how do you keep building it, keep doing what they're doing now, which is incremental growth, but consistent incremental growth. Eric, I think the thing that a lot of these wrestling companies have maybe lost the plot on is I think once upon a time people thought, man, the holy grail to having a successful wrestling organization is to have TV and being a major network that has more homes. And I'm not saying that's not part of it. But why would a network want a wrestling show at all? And the answer would be because they think people are going to watch and they think they can sell ads. I think there's been a lack of focus on ad sales on both the AEW side and the TV. and A side because if you have a show that already has built in sponsors where people are saying,

if this is on, I know that the people who are going to watch it are my target demo, I can bring them with me. There's a fellow he used to run around going, oh yeah, who did that for WCW once upon a time. And I think maybe that's been lost in translation. Perhaps if you really want to get your national promotion to a national platform, you need to have national advertisements in the bag when you come over. Don't you think, Garrett? And here's, man, you nailed it, Conrad. And this is an opportunity for both TNA and AEW. Now, again, I don't know what the contractual relationship allows them to do in terms of selling sponsorships on the wrong. So there's a lot of information that I don't have that actually matters quite a bit. But let's just assume a level playing field

and AEW and or TNA has the ability to go out and find their own sponsor. most likely it would have to be a sponsor that the network isn't already doing business with because that messes things up pretty quickly internally. But if they bring, let's say TNA brings in a new sponsor that's new to the network or has an advertising years, whatever, they find their slim gym. And they bring that to the table. Number one, they're going to make money out, if they're smart, they're making money off of it. Number two, it gives the perception to other ad buyers or potential sponsors.

that this is the right place to be, or this is a safe bet for my ad dollars, or at least it's worth taking a risk because somebody else is. Nobody likes to be first. But if TNA or AEW had a sales team, and this is where it gets tricky, because you've got to be more than an internet wrestling, you know, wrestling fan to be able to go out and sell to people who buy professionally. You really have to know your business at a level. beyond just being a fan of it.

And that's an opportunity for both of these companies. If I was Tony Con right, that's where I'd be putting all my, hiring new people. Fuck for. It's just paperwork. This is more paperwork you've got to do because it's not making any money. So why do it? Put those dollars against a really focused sales and marketing team or strategy,

whatever you've got to do, and go out and find some people that haven't advertised down your show and bring them to the party. that would be a way you could control your own destiny. And say for TNN, that's a way that they can, because they're going to have destiny too. Those numbers are going to have to add up. That $30 million number is going to have to project out that look like it makes sense, or I'm sure there's options along the way that, you know, gets AMC out of that deal. So that incremental growth is important, but this is a way you can control it beyond creative.

Well, the thing that I've always sort of hung my hat on with this sort of conversation, Eric, is, you know, we all know that the objective to putting or the objection, rather, to having wrestling on your network is, yeah, a lot of people watch it, but it's a tough sell. But if you've got built in relationships and built in buys, man, that's easy. Like if we had someone who said, because I get this message periodically, hey, I want a podcast on your network. Well, that's one thing. I have an idea.

I think it could be successful. That's like if you build it, they will come. And I love you for your field of dreams and I hope it works out. But if you come over and you say, hey, man, I got an idea for a podcast, but more importantly, I've got four annual sponsors. What day would you like to start? We'll take a stab at it because this is a for-profit business. And we're trying to get results for advertisers, just like Harry's.

We're trying to get them some results just in time for Christmas. And it is a great time for you, especially if you've got somebody who's hard to buy for, but I think you should get a Harry's plus for yourself. You see, they have spent like over 10 years at Harry's developing their most advanced razor yet. It's called Harry's Plus. That's right, an entire decade on R&D to get you the smooth, the shave possible. If you're using old dull razors, or maybe you're using it too fast, or maybe they go dull too fast, or maybe your neck's irritated, we've all dealt with that at some point. That will not be an issue with Harry's Plus. At least it wasn't for me. I'm going to

tell you, if you're looking for the most incredibly advanced shave around, but you want to pay less than the premium brands, Harry's Plus is for you. They've got a brand new advanced pivoting system. It's going to get even closer to your face. They've got refined blade technology. It's going to get you the best possible shave. They've got a weighted metal handle, which gives you more control than ever before. We're talking a barbershop quality shave with German engineer blades.

And each blade, by the way, is honed at three different angles to cut hair cleanly at the root without ever tugging. And even after all this innovation, Harry's Plus is still less than a job. Gillette Fusion. That's right. Not only is it better, it's also more affordable. We're talking a premium shave without the premium markup. By the way, it's a risk-free trial. If you don't love your shave, Harries will make it right, no questions asked. We're talking a risk-free trial. That means there's zero downside to giving it a shot. By the way, Harry's isn't just a razor. It's the centerpiece of their full grooming lineup. They've got you covered from things like

shave gel to body wash. And for a limited time, our listeners can get Harry's plus trial set for only $10. Go right now to harries.com slash 83 weeks. This set will include Harry's all new Harry's Plus Razor and you get one refined five-blade cartridge, a two-ounce foaming shave gel and a travel cover to protect your blades on the go. Just head on over to harries.com slash 83 weeks to claim this offer. And after you purchase, they're going to ask you where you heard about them. Please support our show and tell them we sent you. So, Raj, we've covered a lot of television news here today about what might happen with AEW. What is happening with TNA. Is there any other news we want to hit today?

I mean, I think we about covered it. Those are some, a lot of, a lot of huge, huge stories with a lot of potential ramifications down the road. Well, I can't wait to see what happens with TNA on AMC. We're only about a month away from that debut. I guess five weeks. This time next week, we're all going to be talking about John Cena's last match. Roj, can you jump on next week and let's talk about all things John Sina? Absolutely. I'd love to. In the meantime, how can people keep up with what you're doing? I just keep following me on Twitter at D.Rodge Gehry and also,

at Morgan, we're trying to find time to do Massadete. It's just been, our schedules have just been insane. It's been tough to find a time. But, you know, subscribe to Massa Pete on podcast Heat Wrestling on YouTube. And we will be doing an episode here shortly. Well, thanks for all the time, rise. There's so much news.

We love getting your take. We love getting your insight. And we look forward to seeing you next week, just in time for John Cena's last match. Hey, and by the way, I'll say this here, if you ever need,

if you need somebody to fill in, if, you know, I know what it's like to do podcasts and travel and have schedules and all that. Yeah, reach out anytime. I'd love to be on your show with you guys

or fill in if I had to. So don't be afraid to call and ask. I appreciate you coming on here. Absolutely. I'd love to. Yeah. Love to have you. Thanks so much, Raj.

Be sure to check him out over on Twitter at Raj Geary. I also want to get to some live questions here. You guys have been filing those in, so we're going to hit some of those. And we've got some really fun what ifs. We're also going to take a look back at sort of this week in wrestling history. Let's try to catch up on some of the questions that we've been getting here today, though, Eric. Here's one from Michael Skagans. He says, are you excited about TNA's new deal with AMC?

Do you think they will be legit competition for AEW? you and how proud of you or how proud are you for this comeback that's the last sentence is maybe most important it feels like people have counted out t and a over and over and over going back to like oh two man i don't know if they're a little engine that could or what but what do you pass that now it's funny um i was in new york for the last couple days uh chad my partner obviously at real american free seven i had meetings at fox headquarters in in manhattan and while we were there, I'm sorry, take me back to what you just said. I wanted to make a point.

I lost it. TNA's big comeback. Oh, yeah, Tina's, you know, big comeback. And I, in Frankie Kazarian, actually about the same time, Frankie Kizarian sent out a tweet, and I said, you know, or somebody else tweeted something that Frankie said. And I said, Frankie reminds me of one of my favorite lines in, in the movie Outlaw Josie Wales. and it was Chief Dan George. And it was brief line, it was endeavor to persevere.

And Lori felt the same way about that line because it's kind of like what keeps us going or has kept us going from time to time. You know, in those cycles in our life when it was kind of looking a little dim, right? You've got to kind of keep driving. And we would say that to each other. In fact, we actually had an LLC. that was ETP LLC or Endeavor to Persevere. So I made a reference to that as it related to Qazarian's comment.

And then Vice TV was scheduled to come out to my house and do an interview talking about TNA. It was supposed to happen Monday when my flights got canceled. I got stuck in Minneapolis, blah, blah, blah, blah. Anyway, I went right to New York, never made it home. That shoot had to cancel. But they met me in New York Wednesday night. to do this interview. So in the interview, I was asked a similar question as you just did. It's like, man, can you believe it? You know, how do you describe that? And I said,

I'm going to steal a quote that I used on a friend of mine that works at DNA endeavor to persevere. And it's just the only way I can say it. And look, it's not the same company. It's not the same people, you know, other than some of the talent, obviously, and people behind the seas, perhaps. but those same three letters that brand has stayed alive which is freaking ironic given that it's basically an acronym for tits and ass it's the whole thing defies any kind of logic but i'm really happy for them that they have endeavored to persevere we are live right now at 83 weeks com if you got a question for eric we want to hear from you we want to get to another question here from a wrestling historian we've been talking a lot today

about television deals. And he always brings the great questions. He says, Lenita Erickson admitted to post wrestling that she sabotaged your WCW negotiations with Fox. What was your initial reaction to hearing that? She was a hanger on to Jean and yes, whatever. If there was a point in time, as you know, I did business with Gene before this period that I'm talking about. But during the sale portion of WCW, which happened after I have.

originally worked with Gene. And I never met her back then, at least that I recall. Somehow or another, Gene was probably part of a group of people that were interested in making a play for WCW. If my memory serves me correctly, and I only remember that because of Guy Evans' book.

Because I don't remember, I've never heard of any of that stuff going on during that period of time when it was live, so to speak. but somehow she was on the periphery probably doing what she did best allegedly and just to hang around but she has since inserted her position

in that process to try to make it seem like she was a much more integral part of anything than she was AOTV productions always has some great questions and he wants to know remember when Netflix was all about DVDs and drove Blockbuster out of business. I think as the story goes, Netflix actually tried to work with Blockbuster. Blockbuster said no. And now somehow Netflix is about to own Batman. Boy,

you want to talk about a reversal. That's like a double Uno right there, right? It is amazing, isn't it? I mean, I mean, it's all happening so fast. And unfortunately, for someone in the entertainment business, everything, It's everything that is continuing to become more vertically integrated. That's the part because, you know, a lot of the best ideas, a lot of the best opportunities, a lot of the best businesses, entertainment businesses were built by, you know, entrepreneurs slash TV producers, like, for example, Tom Beers, who created the format of Monster Garage, which created a massively successful merchandise

line for years. At Walmart, you couldn't walk down a street without seeing West Coast choppers gear. That was because of a television producer named Tom Beers that built an entire business model. And then it was copied and, you know, other people have done it. Those people like Tom Beers, like Jason and I, I don't know, a fraction of his scale, obviously, that's where the good stuff comes from. As those small independent producers and large and successful independent producers go away

and there's really no opportunity to make money competing against the big guys, you just can't. They can do things internally at a lower price that you would possibly be able to do it using freelancers, for example, or maintain a staff to do it. You're priced out of the market as an independent. a producer is you cannot function in that world anymore because the big studios, the big networks have all been kind of gobbled up into one big shell, so to speak. You eat up all that independent, creative, out-of-the-box thinking, and creative starts coming out like bankers and lawyers

and ad salespeople because they all have a lot of influence on what their product looks like ultimately. And there's a sameness to it. You just lack the imagination that you had when you had a really vibrant, independent television or film community. We're going to continue taking your questions. I'm going to do one more here. And then we're going to chat about some other stuff. But keep us coming.

We'll get back to them. AOTV Productions has another question about war games. Of course, that was this past week. And we saw that at Survivor Series. It was a phenomenal show. I think everybody's still buzzing about the John Cena, Dominic Mysterio performance. But we had a war games match here. Jim Cornett says there's an issue with there being two war games matches on the same card,

basically saying once you've seen the first, you've seen it all. We know that even AEW did this. They had, you know, both WW and AEW have adopted this. We're going to have a women's double cage match and we're going to have a men. double cage match. And it doesn't feel as special the second time they set the cage up. It feels like you're doing it. I think the phrase is to diminishing returns.

You know, uh, what do you make of that? Does it feel as special? Like I can't imagine, hey, we're going to do a battle royal for the whip or women's royal rumble to start. And then a men's were a rumble later. That seems to work because there doesn't feel like there's as much stakes.

There's as much violence. There's as much blood. It doesn't have the finality. It feels more like a one off. Guys don't complain. about there being two rumble matches, but they do two cage matches. I can kind of see it. The war games feels like the end, not necessarily the beginning.

And I think most people associate the Royal Rumble with the beginning of a storyline because now he's going to get his title shot. So the best is still yet to come. But there's some finality with the war games. What say you? I 100% agree. I mean, it, it does. First of all, as time has gone on, we've talked about the sedanasmus.

As time has gone on, it's getting more and more difficult. for the cage to actually become a character in the show, as opposed to just a unique prop we haven't seen in a while. And then when you double them up, yeah, it's even more so. And now let's throw in the change in presentation, you know, that it requires because the nature of women in the cage. So it's, yeah, I don't, I don't know where it goes, but it is, to me, it's been a challenge to get interested in the first place,

but it's getting harder and harder. We want to know from you guys. Let us know in the comments below. Do you like two war games? Do you like a women's version and then a men's version? I almost think these could be standalone things. Like maybe we do a special television event and that's where the women's war game is and the men's is on pay-per-view or vice versa.

That would be a good way. Having two in the same night feels like there's a sense of sameness. I don't know that it feels as special. Even when you do like a money in the bank, like if you're going to do a women's and a man, now you know there's two car crashes. I don't know, maybe each should be treated like a main event and close the show. We'll see. Let us know in the comments below.

Something I know everybody's going to be commenting on the next time they see Easy E, though, is, hey, Eric, you're looking better than ever. And he would say a lot of that is because of Signos. Eric and Mrs. B have been on top of this for a long, long time about diet and nutrition, but even they didn't know the real-time insights into what's going on in their own personal body in real time right then. But they do now, thanks to Signos. You see, once upon a time, you had to go read something and figure out,

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that's signos.com, S-I-G-N-O-S-com. The code is 83 weeks, and you'll get 25% off select plans today. Eric, I want to have some fun. By the way, we're continuing to have these live questions come in. If you've got questions, keep them coming. But over the past few days, Eric, I was looking at one of my favorite follows on Twitter, Andrew Dice Clay, and he brought up a great topic. There was a question or a tweet actually posted by Alan a few days ago.

a great follow on Twitter as well. And he wrote, Sean Michaels has been on the WW payroll consistently since 1988, which is 37 years. A lot of people will come back with the obvious reply that he retired between 98 and 02, but they never took him off the books. Sean was paid the entire time. He was injured and inactive as a wrestler,

but he remained contractually tied to the company. So anyway, my buddy Andrew Dice Clay sees this and quote tweets it and says, about Stone Cold Steve Austin. His contract ran out in March of 2001, and he suddenly went, anybody else's back feeling better? You know, it must be this herbal tea I'm on.

Now, of course, the Andrew Dice Clay is having a little fun there. But he mentions that this is all happening, the very same month that WCW goes under, and his deal was up. And I'll admit, when I read this here, I didn't know that was true, that Austin's contract came due at the exact same time, that WWE purchased WCW, March of 01.

Now, of course, Austin resigns, and he tells everybody's planning to wrestle at Backlash, 2001, the very next month, which he didn't, which is fine, who cares? But it made me wonder, Eric, and I know you sometimes hate armchair quarterbacking, but I thought it's fun. I see where you're going over this. This is fun.

I like it. So let's talk about what if. What if Austin's contract had come do and call it January, or February of 2001. The very beginning of 2001, Austin's contract has come due. And I know what you're thinking. Well, it wouldn't matter.

WCW was in the red. They were losing money. They were going to close down anyway. As a reminder, WCW was also losing money when they signed Hulk Hogan. WCW had never made money until they signed Hulk Hogan. Hogan comes in a 94. They have their biggest advertising success yet.

Ratings are up, Gates are up, pay-per-view records are set left and right. That happens almost immediately. By 95, WCW, thanks to the Advent of Nitro, shows their first dollar of profit. But it took two things. It took Hulk Hogan, the biggest star in the business, and it took live TV on Monday night heads up with Monday Night Raw. Now, I know a lot of us, myself included, had respectfully given up on WCW in early 2001.

But what if, and I think Silva has a photo he wants to show here, what if we switch over from Monday Night Raw and we turn on Nitro and we see this and we see Stone Cold Steve Austin walking out on Nitro like wait a minute all the sudden is Ted Turner closing down is everybody saying let's throw the baby out with the bathwater or do they say well hang on here a minute maybe we need to stay the course and try a little Let's hang in here. Let's just see what happens. Because as a reminder,

the biggest WrestleMania of all time is WrestleMania 17. That's in March of 01. But Rock and Austin would not have happened there if he jumped ship and he's in WCW. So that's what I want to examine the day here, Eric is. What if there was a chance to sign Steve Austin. Would Turner have continued?

What would the Fuget media buy up? Would it have been a play? Would they have continued to pursue it if they knew they had Steve Austin. I've word vomited a lot. I want to hear from you now, Eric. Well, I mean, there's a lot of questions there. And there's no, I think you really have to take them one at a time because each scenario that could come right, you know, the top of everybody's head as you just, by the way, phenomenal job laying that out, by the way. I mean, you basically walked me through a movie. This is what you did. At least a very good, you know, premise for one.

I have just because the way my brain works, you know, I have to think about the creative first in the episode if this would have provided, because a lot of that plays into how you would do it and who you do it with, right? So this is where if we could really, this will be hard for me without getting lost in the weeds,

but if we can kind of just go back in time and set a fictional stage where you're taking advantage of reality, which everybody knows I used to love to do, and Vince obviously did as well. You take a lesser extent that I did, but I love taking a real situation that you could manipulate,

much like I did with my confrontation with Riffler, which was a legal confrontation that we played out in the ring, just to prove my point. But if you were to kind of try to take advantage of that same creative strategy, and everybody knows what happened to me, right, who I was, what I did, I mean, just take this out.

You don't even play, this isn't about me. Everybody knew that, that nice, that WCW was on the edge and on the bubble. And at the last minute, in a real, well, in a provable way, in a court of law, one could make the claim, you know, yes, you know, I am not under contract to WWE. Okay, he wasn't then. But let's just say we figure out a way to get, for Steve to be front and center. Now take out, you did a phenomenal job setting.

the story up. Take out Hogan, insert Steve Austin. But now you're inserting Steve Austin into a storyline that has been baking at a very high temperature for the last, oh, I don't know, two years. Are you freaking kidding me? How do you not win Emmys for that story? How does that not become a scripted feature? Or a cartoon, whatever. take your pick. But you see what I mean? It's such an easy story to tell. And now you're right back to square one where you're almost all the way to square one where, you know, Ra, you know, Eric versus Vince was a real thing. I mean, it really was a real thing. You could get so close to creating that real thing. You would eclipse the whole brand split, you know, the multiple attempts over multiple

years to make that actually feel like a competitive brand split. Not just two separate companies because these guys don't play with these guys. But you could create that energy and that vibe because you could play loyalty to it. Who is loyal to Steve Austin? Who was way more loyal to Vince? How did we find out that that guy is more loyal to Vince? Because he screwed us because we're on Austin's team. I mean, there's so much fun you could have with just the very premise of that.

I got to tell you, I can get really excited about January 2001 and Stone Cold Steve Austin coming in. I mean, at that time, your top baby faces in WCW were obviously, you know, Sting and Goldberg and DDP and Booker T. But those, I mean, you could finally deliver much like before it was a dream match of Hogan and Flair. Now you could do Austin and Goldberg, right? I mean, three years ago now you could because you'd be. printing money. You'd make the fan base want that match so bad, and you wouldn't give it to them until right before they are ready to abandon ship because you've been pissing them off for not giving it to them. You just turn that heat up and you take a risk. You take it even further than

you think you should. And you get that, and if you can hit that timing, if you feel that right, and, you know, react accordingly. it could have been a monster match, especially with good story in between. But here's what else you have in the premise of the story with Austin. You know, I created the fictional storyline with the NWO where, you know, WCW hire, you know, they work for WCW. They didn't get treated as well as they were.

They didn't get the shot. They thought they should get because Dusty was holding them, whatever their story was. It wasn't Dusty, whatever their story was. and they went to WWE. They became big stars. Now, my creative part of it was because those things are true, right? They left WCW, true.

They left because they didn't think they'd get the opportunity that they could get at WWE. True. They went on to WWE to become big stars, really true. Three out of the four elements of my story were true. That's why it stuck. and it evolved over time. But my point here is you have the exact same creative model sitting in front of you. And the difference is I knew, you know, why they were leaving because they told me why they were leaving.

The fans assumed it or maybe Scott Gibbon talked about it. But here, in this scenario, fans have been watching it play out. I mean, I know it's true. Or they absolutely believe it's true. You would just have to be really finessed in the way you position, Steve. But God, so you've got all of the power. of Hogan coming into WCW at the right time, much as you've characterized in 1994. Now you've got a, you know, the hottest commodity in WWE at that time jumping ship.

Well, there you go. There's your Scott and Kevin, you know, massive jump, you know, surprise or Hulk Hogan coming over element, I should say, it's a surprise. But you've got that. Oh, and you've got the NWO version of a revenge story. It's a revenge premise. I'm going to come back and make you guys pay. Or you could even go baby face and it's like,

I'm always going to work for you. I'm going to here because I'm going to kick your ass. Whatever. You create that. You know, Steve's the baby face. You know, Vince is the heel thing, which is where they went anyway, right? Or where they were already at that point. So, man, I could spend four hours with you over a couple beers of pizza

and talking this idea. This is fun. Well, I just think about, you know, because we know he was here before, or he being Stone Cold Steve Austin, but he never really got to work with Sting, at least as a top guy, so you've still got that. And you've got the whole diamond cutter versus the Stone Cold Stunner. We know DDP and Austin were friends.

But think about the promos between a Rick Flair and a Stone Cold Steve Austin. That could have been bananas. What about the unhinged stuff we could have done with a big pop of pump and Stone Cold Steve Austin? We want to hear from you guys. Let us know in the comments. if Stone Cold had jumped to WCW in 2001, what would you have liked to have seen him do?

Name us like some ideas in order that you as a fan could get excited about because I got to admit, I never even imagined just before WrestleMania 17, the biggest star in the business could leave. And Ted Turner back up the brinkstruck and maybe save WCW. All of wrestling could look a lot different. We want to know what you guys would have liked to have seen Steve Austin do in the comments below. While we're doing that, let me recommend that they don't try to recreate

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Eric, we're seeing lots of fun comments here. People are saying they want to see Hogan Goldberg Sting. Hey, listen, how hypothetically fun is that? I know at that point, Hogan was gone, but with Steve Austin here and WCW seemingly pulling the nose up, in an alternate universe, do you think you could have tried to put together Hogan and Austin in WCW? Hogan would have picked up the phone 30 seconds after that came public

and try to create that opportunity because he would have loved Russell Steve. I don't think it would have been, I don't think it would have been as good as he saw it in his head. Hulk was well, he was already, you know, beginning to show wear and turn. You could see it in his work. I mean, he's never really a big, well, although he was. You go back and watch some of Hulk Hogan's Japanese stuff. He could be as snug as he needed to be. And it's on tape.

You can see it. on social media. But for the most part, he wanted to work for a long time, not a great time, right? So he took it easy on himself and it showed, but by that point, it began to show more and more and more to the point that,

you know, I'm not sure the match would have been what either one of them would really wanted, but the fans definitely would have wanted it. As a reminder, Scott Steiner won the WCW title in late November of 2000, but that title picture is kind of cloudy in early 2001. Booker T, Goldberg, Sid Vicious, and Jeff Jarrett were all being considered as contenders.

And I know that once upon a time, Jeff Jarrett and Steve Austin, man, they didn't get along the best in the world. And we know what happened to the WWF. But think of a way, a surefire way that everybody's going to hate Jeff Jarrett and love Stone Cold Steve Austin. If for whatever reason, Jeff Jarrett won that title back somehow from Big Pop a Pump. and he's the guy who drops the belt to Steve Austin, man, I just can't help but feel like WCW with Stone Cold walking around with the big gold belt,

it feels like an entirely new promotion, doesn't it? It would be. And in this ship, I mean, you would, whatever audience, WWE,

or excuse me, WCW lost to WWE, um, you would have every one of them back. And ultimately, you would probably have a much larger share of the hardcore WWE fan than WCW ever did even at its peak. Meaning, I don't think we got more than 25, 30 percent of the WWE fan base to become regular WCW fans. If even that.

But we, you know, we had a lot of crossover. Don't get to too confused. Yes, we had a lot of crossover, but I'm talking about that portion of the crossover that came over the fence and stayed fans of us first, WW2nd. There may have been moments, you know, over that couple of year period when our stuff was decidedly so much better than what was going on in WWE, that for that moment or that period, yes, you would have fans that would much prefer WCW over WWE or vice versa if the scenario was reversed. But in that scenario, I think what could be done with the Stone Cold version of WCW and the length of time for which it could be done, the alternate WCW company would have had more success than Nitro did at its peak because it would bring over a much more consistent and larger part of the WWE audience. the other way said i'll keep it brief i think there was a certain amount of monday night raw fans because that's all it was at the time w wf monday night raw fans that were so hard-core raw fans

w-dwf fans that they refused to watch the other product or just didn't on a regular basis it wasn't as meaningful to them so they didn't devote their time to it right not a tribal love hate thing more of a now i get my wrestling fix with monday night roll i'm good that's probably the largest part of that's probably the composition of 75 or 85% of the audience in general. But you've got that hardcore portion. I think we could have eaten into that larger audience and gotten under the scenario, they would get a much larger portion of that audience. The number would have actually probably really beat the hell out of raw.

But who cares? You want them both. Or if Turner would, I'd say, I'm, I'm looking at this from the WWE perspective, what I would do if I was WWE at that time. But either way, if it's Turner funding it and building it, that can get really competitive.

And you don't rely on the crossover. You're just a business, but man, what an opportunity. Hey, I do want to ask you, you know, we've talked a little bit about standards and practices.

And one of the things that was really a thorn in your side in 1998 is when WCW or Turner corporate, was telling you what you could or couldn't do. Meanwhile, on the other station, they've got scannily clad women and middle fingers and bears and or beers and foul language and everything in between. All the good stuff.

When you have a star like Steve Austin, do you think you could have gotten, you could have gotten Turner Corporate to back off a little bit because they understood this is how you get a beer sponsorship. This is part of his brand. And if you're serious about growing this thing, he's a necessary evil with this type of content. What do you think?

Here's where you just took the fun out of it in terms of, you know, what if. The only way that you could have achieved any more latitude than we were given at that time to go after the 18 to 49 year old audience, which is going to come down to T's and A, you know, TNA. It's going to come down to the type of programming that WWE was really focusing on at that time. And it was that over the top adult themed oriented content. And they got away with a lot more than you get away with now. Guaranteed. You couldn't get away to that now.

The only way we would have gotten any, we wouldn't have gotten that much latitude with anybody. It doesn't matter. But if we could have moved the, move the parameters a little bit, you'd have to convince Joe Yuva to rebrand his network and his strategy for ad sales. You would have had to convince. Vince ad sales that in this unique particular case, because Steve Austin is such a star, and this creative strategy that we use in order to keep him relevant against that WWE Monday

Raw audience, because now Steve's competing, if this is a real life scenario, now Steve is competing against Vince. If Vince is willing to walk a naked chick around, presumably, mostly naked chick around on a dog leash, on her hands and knees, then, yeah, you're going to have to push the, envelope you're not going to push it that far i can't imagine a scenario where that would happen but in order to get you'd have to convince the guy that you have to he had to change his entire business strategy for turner ad sales i don't think they would have done it not even for steve austin not that's where vince mcman had an advantage you know Vince would always paint the picture

oh wcw's got an unfair advantage because they're owned by a corporation or millionaire yeah that's true It's still a publicly held company. You still got to do things for the right reason or at least make it look like you're attempting to, right? There's a limit to what you can do when you're a big corporate conglomerate because of the fact that you're a public to health company. You have a fiduciary responsibility. At that level, that matters a lot. Vince didn't have that. Vince could have taken that chance if the situation reversed.

And it did. Vince abandoned his teen and preteen business models. I've talked about ad nauseum. We've talked about it. He actually abandoned it and embraced the strategy that WCW was using with Nitro, which was an 18 to 49 year old bullseye. And he took that strategy and turned the volume up even further in order to take my audience from me. That's what I was talking about earlier with managing your demo. And same thing as we opened the show up. talking about managing your demographic and what you have control over, which is the content that attracts a certain demographic of audience,

how do you finesse it, how do you tilt it, tweak it, turn it, whatever you got to do to it, teach it to sing and dance, but do whatever you can do to have an impact on that demo that you're going after. That's what you would have to convince Joe you ever to do, and I don't think he would have done it. Well, let's talk about it the other way.

If Turner wasn't going to keep the program on, let's talk about from a fusion media standpoint. I know that a big part of the deal is you're going to have to figure out where you're going to air the thing, and you were hoping that you were going to be able to maintain those television contracts. But as hot of a star as Steve Austin was in 2001, and the contacts that you had with Fusion Media and their success with ESPN classics

and other platforms, do you think there would have been an opportunity to secure a television deal for a wrestling show, with Stone Cold Steve Austin as its top star. I mean, there's a story. Could I go into a room feeling pretty confident when I pitched this? I'm either going to get a yes or damn close to it. And if I don't get a yes, I'm going to find out why.

And I'll use that information for the next meeting, which I probably have scheduled in about two hours. Because that's how that game works. You're pitching, but you're also getting intel in the form of objections. Or often they don't come up as objections. they come into form of questions. You can tell what people are thinking in that buying situation when it comes to selling content. You can kind of figure out what their objections are

based on the types of questions they ask you. You can figure that out. So I think you would have a good chance, if not on the first pitch, by the third one. And actually, I would have saved my best opportunity for my last pitch. I'd take the least, likely, kind of likely, like it could work.

Otherwise, you wouldn't get the meeting, right? I'm just going to give you a meeting just to come in and pitch whatever you're doing that day. You've got to kind of talk to the right people. They've got to know what the project is. They're going to probably do a little bit of digging before they even agree to take the meeting. They're going to get an idea what it's about. And you're going to get in that meeting. And based on the questions, you're going to tweak your next pitch.

Based on those questions, you're going to tweak your next pitch. you're going to tweak the next pitch. It's probably the third pitch that you'll sell it. So that's why I'd leave it for the end anyway. I take my most likely target or the one I wanted. I'd set three meetings and I'd make my target my third. Man, what could have been? I had no idea that Dawson's contract was up that month.

Did I? Do you think I? What is it in real life? Okay, now let's go back in time. Now it's me, for whatever reason they hadn't fired me yet. And I hadn't, you know, quit yeah i'll say that um i'm in that situation and steve is no way that's a scenario

steve is no way ever going back to work with this whatever happened it's a it's a it's a no fly zone never going back i still got to convince Vince or Steve austin to come and work with me at wcw i think i could have done it but maybe not at that time You know, I say that because, you know, what year was it that I worked with Steve 2004, 2003? By that time, you know, time had gone by. Steve had a different perspective on life. He was a little different person, same here, right? So when he and I sat down at his podcast in his home, Marina Del Rey, we were already good.

We were good when we worked together the very first time when we laid eyes on each other, had laid eyes on each other since I fired him in that WWW. East get where he and I work a program together for no way out. Our first meeting there, by that time, we were good. But that might not have been the case, right? So at that point in time, so it, what a, what a, man, if you could have put that deal together, now the guy that fired him by FedEx is his partner or his boss. Oh, God.

Well, that's what I'm saying. It feels like you pick up right where you left off with the Austin McMahon thing. We're seeing lots of comments who are like, Hey, Austin wasn't as over without McMahon. Yeah, but you've got a natural television performer who everyone universally hates. No disrespect.

Eric, that was your job. My God, you've got a natural story. Everybody knows. He comes out holding, he's got to fold it up in his back pocket, and he pulls it out,

and it's a FedEx envelope, and he opens it up and he reads it. And now I'm back, blah, blah, blah. Like, it writes itself, doesn't it? Oh,

over and over and over again in a different version every time. There's so much opportunity there with that idea. We want to know from you guys. What do you think? What, what storyline would you have gotten most excited about seeing Steve Austin in in WCW in the year 2001? It's hard to imagine they would have messed that up. It's also hard to imagine that you don't know that today's episode is brought to you by Blue Chew, someone who's going to be extra hard on you for the holidays. Come on now, a little bit of help from your friends. Think about it like a hot tag for your wiener. It's time to go stocking.

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Get your first month of Blue Chew free. Just use the promo code 83 weeks and check out and pay five bucks for shipping. That's it. Join Blue Chew's mission to upgrade humanity one thrust at a time. Head on over to bluechew.com for details and important safety information. And a big thanks to Blue Chew for sponsoring today's podcasts. Man, we're seeing the comments coming in left and right. NMBT says I'd like to see Austin versus Goldberg have a match.

I think that was another dream match people really wanted. Man, imagine if he comes over at the beginning of the year, maybe you could have done Starcade 01 or Halloween Havoc, maybe is DDP and Steve Austin and maybe Starcade is Hogan and Austin. And then the following year you build the Goldberg one, like it just, it's unbelievable the opportunities that you've got here. Another comic says he could have cut a promo ripping WWE apart and tell everyone he was taking over WCW.

listen, if he leaves WWE, you assume he's got an ax to grind. He would have been throwing shade at Austin. I mean, Austin would have been throwing shade at Rock. He would have been throwing it to Vince. The idea that he's cutting, because we all know that he did like parody promos of you in ECW. Imagine if he's doing that for Monday Night Raw and mocking everything. Here's another thing.

You know how much I love, StoryLyzer, or based in a little bit of reality or a lot of it? Steve Williams, known as the character, Steve Vossin could literally have written a check to purchase WCW. He wouldn't even had to need a funding partner if he didn't want one. So there's so much reality in this scenario that could have been, right? The elements of reality that could have been and potential storytelling devices there, I mean, it would be so believable.

It would be some of the best wrestling television. he'd ever seen done well, obviously done right. But wow, cool, fun. A lot of fun. We got a lot of questions coming in here. We want to hit Trigger Cheese says, why do you think the rap BMIC worked better for Sina than it did for Pia News? Do enhancement matches have a place today in your opinion?

Happy holidays, Eric. So we'll start with the last one first. Do you think we need more enhancement matches in 2026, Eric? That train left the station, man. I just do I think we need them in a way yes but it's not viable people aren't going to want to watch it they have short attention spans we've all across all forms of programming not just wrestling every type of creative content out there has been redesigned to to evolve with the audiences craving for shorter form content in every way shape or form.

So you'd have to keep it, you just have to keep it really short. But I don't know, I don't think it would work or not. I think enhancement matches do have a place, but only with one guy. Like everybody on your show can't be Mike Tyson. Everybody on your show can't be Bill Goldberg. But if you do have one guy who's steamingly steamrolling everybody,

you're building him for the big thing. But I don't think you can have a show full of enhancement matches. No, and there has to be a story there. You know, in order for it to be something other than just watch me do bench presses, which is about the same thing as, you know, an enhancement match, if there's no back and forth, if there's no story to the match, if there's no perceived stakes in the match, if all you're watching is a very talented, large, physically attractive, looks like the wrestling character everybody dreams about.

And he's in there and he's smacking everybody else around. and we've got a whole card full of Bill Goldberg's, you know, circa first year in the business, no, then it's a stunt show. Then you're just seeing how badly you could, you know, hit people with crazy things that looks brutal because that's the only thing

you've got to work with. You've got no story. You've got no mistakes. You've got no believability. You've got nothing other than let's just make them crash. That'll be cool. Kind of like, you know, extreme sports mentality.

That's all you got. you're not working with anything else. I don't think that would work. Let's do another question. This one comes to us from AOTV productions. He wants to know, what do you think of the situation with Paul Heyman and the young fan after war games?

I don't know if you saw this, Eric, but... Yeah, I did. Okay. Tell us what you thought of that, if anything. It was very uncharacteristic of Paul. I was surprised to see it. From Paul, I wouldn't be surprised to see a lot of people

that I've worked with in the past do that. And it wasn't, you know, look, I wasn't trying to hurt the kid. He was getting him out of the way. Did he get a little more physical than perhaps I would have? Hopefully I would have, but it all depends on the situation. I wasn't there either. Kid could have been throwing car batteries or desell batteries at him for all I know, but unlikely, but you know what I'm saying.

Wasn't there, so I can't comment. Other than it was physical enough that it stood out too much to be characteristic of both to me on a personal level. Oh, we got another question here from Excel Rader. What are your thoughts on Mr. Kennedy? You spent a little time with him in T&A, didn't you? Oh, dude, we're friends to this day. In fact, Garrett and Ken, Ken Anderson, Mr. Kennedy and I went on a badass Elkhunt in northern New Mexico, in the mountains of New Mexico.

I don't know what year that was. In fact, I have, if you look, I don't know if you can see it behind me or not, over my shoulder. You should see some elk gamblers up on the beam there going across my living room. I don't know if you can see him right now. They're behind my head. There you go. Anyway, Garrett got that elk on that hunt.

And yeah, we're buddies. And I did a seminar or a meeting grade, I should say, better to say it, at his wrestling school in Minneapolis a couple years ago now when I was there over Thanksgiving. So, yeah, I think a lot of kids. He's a blast, man. We had so much fun. He had so much fun. His wife is a hoot.

I don't know if you've ever been around her. She's a fun time. Just great energy. Funny as hell. Yeah. That's my take on Ken Anderson. Let's do a tweet that I saw since we've been recording. This is a clip from a Nick Conn interview with Logan Paul.

And they brought up Ray Mysterio. And he basically said, says that Ray Mysterio was considered a nothing in WCW. This is Nick Conn on Logan Paul's show. He says, think about the work that guy had to put into his career. And by the way, when he was in WCW,

he was considered like a nothing, a nothing. He came to WWE and he had a great luchador history prior to WCW. He came to WWE and the machine got behind him. He did everything he needed to do to be elevated by that machine. Okay, I think we're going to give a lot of grace here to Nick because I don't know how closely he was keeping up with wrestling in 1996,

but it's hard for me to wrap my head around Ray being considered a nothing. He changed the dog on style and revolutionized the business, but I do agree he sold more mass and became a bigger star in WWV. He enjoyed more storyline success, became world champ. That's certainly a bigger part of his history and legacy. I think it's a little bit of a slight to say that Ray was a nothing in WCW. What say you, Eric? Yeah, I mean, I saw that this morning and I went, wait a minute.

And you're right. I doubt Nick was paying too much attention to what was going on. And look, like you, is there any question in my mind that Ray went on to become a much bigger star on a much bigger platform than he ever was in WCW? Of course. That should be pretty obvious. but there's quite a bit of distance in my mind between did we make him a bigger star and these guys considered him nothing. That's probably not the right, probably not the best way to say.

What I think he was trying to say, and I would agree with is, you know, he went from, you know, putting in the time doing the work. By the way, not only in WCW, but, you know, in AAA since he was 14 years old, right? and did really well there. And he came to WCW and did, by the way, worked in, I think he beat Kevin Nash, wrestled him for sure. The Cruising Way Division, which I guess I considered nothing, which is bizarre because I used it in my crossover,

which is the only segment of the show that's as important is the opening and the close is the crossover. and I featured an entire division built around Ray Mysterio, who was prominent within that division. And by the way, that nothing in that division only got the opportunity in WWE because of the platform that I gave him in the position that he was placed in, in Nitra, in that crossover, semi-made events, so to speak. It's really what it is.

the crossover is easily should be considered from a television writer-producer's point of view as the co-main event so yeah probably not the best way to say it but i know what he was trying to say and that's why it's hard to get pissed off over it um or or feel slighted by it i don't feel slighted by it i'm just looking at it from a kind of objective per se that's not really objective it's subjective but i think it's pretty balanced perspective of it We just got a question in from Joe Bangles, 3677. He wants to know, what are your thoughts on Jericho? And thanks for WCW Monday nights.

We're getting closer and closer. Allegedly, his contract is up at the end of the year. Do you think they pulled the ultimate swerve and he sticks with AEW? Or do you think that we see a return maybe at the Royal Rumble or some other show? Ooh, here's where this one gets fun slash difficult. is I look I just don't want to suggest I know Chris Eirko very very well but I know him well enough and have really watched him maneuver through the industry not so much in the ring but ultimately where he's positioned in the ring but he's a very smart guy and he plans ahead he thinks

ahead. I think he's going to make it. I would, if I had to bet money, I would bet he's going to end up in WWE. If I had to bet, and it would somebody would have to really have a reason to force me, because I wouldn't

want to take that bet. If I had to, that's where I put my money. And part of that is I'm looking, I know, I look at little dots and I find ways to connect them. I tried different ways to connect them to see what picture makes the most sense to me based on my instinct,

I guess. If you look at recent social media posts of Chris where you can see the kind of shape he's in, every week he starts, I start seeing more pictures that, you know, showcase the way Chris looks right now because Chris didn't look that good. Christian gave a lot of weight. He almost looked like he gave up and just didn't care anymore. Just visually, I'm not saying that was the case. But he got physically to the point where to me, as someone who kind of knows him a little bit,

and knowing how competitive he is and how much pride he has as a human being. Now, when I'm talking about professional, I'm talking about as a person, I mean, as a character, but as a person. I was looking at that going on. He's ready. He's done. He's moving on. He's going to ride this out. He's moving on.

And then all of a sudden, I start seeing him evolving. And then noticing it, thinking to myself, Chris has got a plan. I don't know what the plan is, but Chris has a plan, because Chris always has a plan, my perception of him and experience. So I'm watching Chris and then, lo and behold, now I'm seeing real. subtle little nods to WWE, just enough to get social media to pay attention. Not overt. It wasn't like, you know, the tweet factory put it out on your behalf. It was subtle and nuanced in a Jericho kind of way.

And it walked right up to the line of being obvious, but it wasn't, which means there's a reason for it. Now, the question is, what's the reason? is the reason, and this is where, you know, this is where Gericoke gets tricky because he's freaking good at it, is, is he really hoping to end up in one place over the other? Because he's hoping financially to win. He'll win either way. Either way, it ends up being he's going to win financially. That being said, what else matters?

legacy, opportunity to do something you haven't done before, opportunity to end your career on a much, much, much bigger worldwide stage, opportunity just to have some fresh energy and to make this stop my very last stop. Or, since I'm going to win financially anyway, am I really loyal here?

Am I really here for something beyond money? I hear for a reason beyond the money because that's what he would be giving up. He'd be achieving something very important beyond them because he's getting the money either way. But in the scenario that we just talked about with WWE, there's a lot of value in ending your career on the world's largest platform for the biggest movie company, presumed to be in the world. There's a lot of value in that for a guy like Chris Jericho. But depending on what he wants to do, maybe the loyalty matters more or as much. That's the part I don't know.

We're going to find out. Is he playing one against the other so that he wins? He knows he knows he's going to win no matter what. He can figure that out. That's his instinct. even have to think about it. It's just like a natural function for him to make sure that he's covered. So he knows he's going to make money both ways,

but do I turn up the volume on that discussion? Do I raise that level of financial opportunity by playing them against each other? I think, you know, Nick Conn and companies a little too smart for that kind of gamesmanship, but maybe Chris is confident enough to play it. Or maybe he knows he's going to win either way financially. sweet. It doesn't matter that much to him. Let's just do the best I can and see where it ends up. I don't know, man. It's a very intriguing situation. But forced to, I put my money on Chris and WWE just by how far he's gone to get himself in what appears to be pretty good shape.

We're going to keep our ear to the ground. Thanks to our friends at Raycon. This message is sponsored by Raycon. And if you're looking for a holiday gift, I've been using Raycon's essential open earbuds. And honestly, they're so dang good. I love that I can play my music and still hear what's going on around me. It's perfect for the gym or if you're out walking the dogs or you're running errands, even if you're at your desk and you need to have your head on a swivel still in case somebody needs you. And right now, Racon's are up to 20% off for the holiday. So you should definitely grab them while you can. You see, regular earbuds are going to block out everything. So you you won't hear someone calling your name or car honk or anything like that. But these Racon ones sit

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Thank you, Raycon. Well, I thank you guys for tuning in. We've still got a few questions we want to hit. McKenzie says, who do you guys think should induct John Sina? The internet wrestling community is saying Stephanie McMahon, Kurt Angle, Randy Orton, Merry Christmas.

I'll go the other way. I don't know how the reception would be, but I think Vince McMahon should induct John Sina. Yeah, absolutely agree with you on that. I mean, yes, my sentiment, you know, what would make me feel best,

would absolutely, would be to see Vince induct John. But I think that'll happen. I wouldn't be surprised. You know, it's Vince, right? So anybody that's surprised by anything Vince does is obviously, has never heard about Vince McMahon.

I've been around him long enough and competed against him on the losing end of it to know that he will go as far as he goes and you should never to get what he wants. And it would not surprise me because it's Vince, but I highly doubt it'll happen. I hope it does. I hope for John it does There's been a little bit of debate

I don't know I know we're going to talk about John Cena a lot next week But there's been a little bit of debate Even Logan Paul took to Twitter Maybe he said it on a show And then he had to clarify on Twitter But he and his boys have been speculating Donald Trump

Gonna come to John Cena's last match And the hardcore people Inside the wrestling bubble are wondering Is Vince McMahon going to be At John Cena's last match I don't know that they'll show John. I don't know that they'd show Vince McMan on camera. Maybe they would.

TKO as a whole has not seemingly had any issues with putting UFC stars who maybe had some legal troubles. And respectfully, this isn't a criminal investigation. This is a civil lawsuit. Do you think there's a chance we see Donald Trump or Vince at seeing his last match? Has your opinion changed at all? No. I think there's a chance. First of all, it's Donald Trump.

And there, you know, everybody, it's no surprise, you know, he's, he's got a secretary right underneath him and a report to him probably on a daily basis, who's, you know, last name is McMahon. We've seen, we've seen Paul Lebeck and Stephanie in, in Trump's office, you know, over the last few months at media events. So, of course, I think it's possible. and yeah, I'll edit that. Do I think it's possible? I think it's absolutely possible. I just don't know how probable it is. Number one, it's Donald Trump and, you know, the world's kind of semi-on-fire. So there's that. And probably don't want to get people's expectations up because to a certain degree, there's a limit to what, you know, even the president of the United States can commit to in terms of a live event. But I just I don't think it will. You got another question here from Frank and he says, Hey, Eric and Conrad, do you think AEW can ever regain its previous peak success?

So that's interesting. He's not saying, hey, will they exceed their previous success? But can AEW climb back to where they once were from a viewership level, Eric? Yes. Yes. However, um, it would take something so, and again, it can't just be talent.

There's nobody out there. Realistically, there is nobody he could bring in based on how that company operates creatively and every other way, at least based on what I see, in terms of the finished product. How they get there, I don't know. But there's nothing they could do really in terms of. of talent that would move the needle significantly. It would take a different philosophy. It would take a different vision.

Same thing for the company with a well-defined strategy and the tactics to go with it. And it would take particular planning and execution. And I just don't see anything at all when I watch their product that suggests to me that people think that way. that there would be an opportunity to do it. So if it's not talent and it's not a revision, if you will, or I hate this, when people say, just reimagine. But in this case, you'd really have to look at that product go, all right, this is not working.

Where do we go from here? And here's why that almost doesn't matter. Because they're a hole now. And I experience this. So I know I'm an expert. I'm an absolute expert on this subject based on my lack of success, specifically about what I'm going to talk about, and success. Let's go to the successful part first.

I took a company called WCW that have been around technically since 1989, I think, and by 1990, whatever, 1993, so four years after it basically, the brand, had been driving itself into the dirt from day one. So you start out, nobody's got an expectation. If they have an expectation, nobody really knows what to expect. You get a lot of benefit of the doubt. In the case of AEW, specific to this question, in 2019, because the WWE had built such a large audience

and began to disappoint that audience over an extended period of time, that audience hadn't gone away yet, it just began to grumble more, right? It had deteriorated along with cable television. It was a different conversation. But for the most part, the energy in and around WWE in 2019 was not very, it wasn't good. Look back and look at the audience numbers and what was going on in the business at the time. So because of that, because of that frustration, particularly with the internet portion of the audience, right? which has become essentially 95% of Tony Kahn's audience is made up of

internet wrestling fans as opposed to general fans that WWE enjoys. But because the expectations were so high along with some of the comments like Chris Jericho made, six months we're going to outperform WWE. Didn't age well. And not that it really matters that much, but that set the tone. That really had a big impact on the expectation of that Internet wrestling audience. And they met that expectation.

Opening night did what, 1.4 million viewers and change. Next one, you know, a little less than that. Don't need to go over the trajectory. But essentially, where have we ended up? 500,000. That's an ass kicking. And it's going to take someone willing to, acknowledge that, Tony, is that who?

Tony's going to have to acknowledge it and make the moves and the commitment to really retool his brand. Otherwise, it's a matter of time. And that time, by the way, that timeline is collapsing now as the contract expiration date is coming up. And it sounds like a long time, but now, 2027 is around the corner from a business planning point of view. And as we discussed on the show a little while ago, Tony, he's never, he won't know if

there's even an opportunity to renegotiate his deal until the day it expires. Based on just me observing what's going on and what, as we talked about, what Warner Brothers discovery is not going to do. They're not going to make a long-term commitment to Tony Con right now. and I don't think it'll be in a position to do so before his contract expires. So yes, could it be turned around, but facing the obstacles they have no control over right now, I don't see it happening.

Man, we just got a question. I cannot wait to ask you. We're going to do a last call here for questions. If you got a question for Eric, we're about to home stretch it. So fire those in right now. But first, I want to brag about our friends over at True Classic.

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Give comfort. Give confidence. Give True Classic. You can find them at Amazon. Target, Costco and Sam's Club, or head on over to trueclassic.com slash 83 weeks to grab the perfect gift for everyone on your list. That's true.com slash 83 weeks. Sorry, I thought you were done there. You know where else you can find True Classic? You can find them at Mall of America. I don't know that? Because I got stuck in Minneapolis

Sunday night because of a snowstorm and a late flight out of Chicago. And I had to wait for my flight to New York a couple of days later. And by the way, I lost my luggage along the way. Actually, my luggage left Minneapolis on a different plane that I wasn't on because I couldn't get on the connective flight. So my luggage was gone. I'm stuck in Minneapolis with no luggage in a meeting in New York on Wednesday. Good news for me, it was like an $18 Uber ride from my hotel at the airport over to the Mall of America. And unbeknownst to me, I walked through the doors in almost immediately, what do I see to my left? It's a true classic brick and mortar.

And I'm going there to buy clothes. And I'm thinking to myself, wait, I've got some true class. I've got their t-shirts. I've got another pair of jeans that I got to try out when True Classic first became a sponsor. So I was already familiar with the product. Now I get to walk into a brick and mortar and not look at stuff online, which is how I get my stuff now anyway. But now I get to touch it. I get to try it out.

I get to feel it. Awesome. And I left there with a lot of new merchandise because I love that merchandise. And I got home. And as early as this morning, I went online and bought two different items, two different pairs of jeans because I saw them in the retail outlet. They didn't have my size. So I ordered them online.

So I'm true classic heavy. I love it. Check it out. You're going to love it. at True Classic.com slash 83 weeks. Eric, here's a great question for you. Can't believe we've not discussed this, but what a great idea. McKenzieam says, do you guys think Vince and or Shane will be at Stephanie's Hall of Fame induction? Thanks for answering our questions. So we know that Stephanie's going into the

Hall of Fame next year in Las Vegas. We know that when Triple H went in this year, the fam was there, but Vince was not. I don't think Shane was either. Do you think Vince and Shane are there? for Stephanie's this is interesting. Oh, this is so hard. Why is this so hard for? It's not like I'm that close to the, but I feel for them.

Yes. When I see, when I see a relationship between a father and daughter, father and son, that was so previously close, or at least appeared to be, and based on everything I've ever heard

from people who were close to them, confirmed it was. And then I see, see the estrangement that we're seeing now, it actually hurts me. I feel for it. I have empathy. I can, unfortunately, I can only imagine, because I've not had to experience it. I have a wonderful relationship with my kids, and I'm grateful every single day for it. I pray and give thanks for it. And because of that, I have enough empathy to really wish it wasn't true. So that part of me says, yeah, maybe he could.

and to justify my desire to want to see it happen, what I tell myself is I'm seeing little attempts. I may have mentioned this to you. I'm seeing little, they're tiny, they're incremental, but I'm seeing a more consistent reference to Vince, certain little, you know, interviews, certainly. I've seen more of a slightly open-door approach to Vince McMahon topics in certain interviews by key executives. I was at the Hall of Fame ceremony specifically to see Lex Lugar and Triple H get inducted into the Hall of Fame because I knew that would just be a big moment and I wanted to be there for it. And I was really surprised at how much, how many references insincere that they were that Paul made to Vince. That was like the first time. I was, like, the first time,

It was like cool to make positive comments about Vince McMahon in public if you're a high profile personality. So I made a mental note. Hmm. This looks like a very, like if you managed a crisis PR firm and you assign them, you know, the challenge of let's get this to them from a corporate perspective. Let's get this to a more comfortable position publicly as it relates to Vince and WWE, TKO. it would probably be a strategy that would be a long term. You're not going to do it overnight. You can't change people's perception overnight.

You've got to take advantage of, you know, absence makes the heart grow fonder. Stay off TV for a long time. Stay out of the press. Don't talk to anybody. Stay out of the headlines. Go quiet. And then let some time pass because people tend, you know, time heals all wounds to a degree. So you let some of that time pass.

and then you slowly start coming back, meaning references back and forth and public sightings and things like that. And that's the pattern that I've been seeing since WrestleMania. That makes me think it's possible. If I'm right, if these are deliberate, intentioned acts of let's get that name

a little more comfortable in the public's eye, forget about internally. I'm talking about it in the public's eye so it doesn't affect the corporation. that's what I would do and that's kind of what I see. Am I hoping to see it or do I really see it? I don't know.

Man, I hate that we're all tuned in and it feels like a TV show, but it's real life. And I think we sometimes forget that. And I hope that it all works out as good as it can. Robert is with us here live. He wants to know, why was Rick Flair never a big opponent for the NWO?

Why didn't you want to establish him as a main opponent of the NWO? I mean, he was as soon as Hogan, win the world title. It was immediately programmed with Rick Flair at that Clash of the Champions and we'll call it August or September of 96. But and again later it was the horseman versus the NWO in 97. But I think at least in your mind by the time the NWO became the hot it thing, did you sort of move Flair down a notch or two? I mean, I know he continues to win the world title after that, but I think you were looking for new for Nitro, right? Not hey, this is what we've always done.

And if nothing else, Flair was consistent, but whether you were seeing Flair in 81 or 91 or 2001, it's the same promo in the same robe. And it's still an entertaining character in all three decades. But was there a sameness there that you were trying to, because I've heard you say before that you felt like WCW was a regional southern company and you wanted a more national field. Did you feel like Flair represented part of that regional southern company?

No, no, no, no, no. I don't know. If you have asked me did in 1991 before I came to, to, right after I got to WCW, was my perception of Rick Flair, that he was more of a national wrestler. I would have said yes,

because I didn't even know who Rick Flair was. I mean, I heard the name, but I really hadn't watched much Rick Flair before meeting him in person. So to me, that's because he was regional, because what was I watching?

WWF. nationally on USA. So by virtue of where he worked in the region, in the wrestling of regional territory, yes, he was more regional at that time. But certainly after having spent time in WWE and WWF at the time, and then having gotten to work with Rick in the 90s after he came back, I didn't perceive him to be a regional.

He came from, but just like Hulk Hogan came from. you know, a region, right? So many guys came from Re-Aran. You say, Savage, they all came from regions, but the perception of them because of the residency on a national level in the eyes of most of the audience, there was a difference. But I didn't feel that way about Rick at this point in time

that you're talking about the NWO era. I just looked at not what is as much as what's next. what is would have probably pointed me to figuring out a way to make it sting and flare. Why would I do that? Because Sting and Flair had been historically money. Anytime he ever did anything for a long time, if you did a decent story with Sting and Flair, it's going to work. So if I was going to do what we had always done,

instead of what we needed to do next, I would have gone that route. But my focus really was on what's next. Not what works right now, what's going to work next? What's different than? Keep going back to the same damn thing all the time, make myself sick hearing it,

but it's true. I needed my different than. And going with saying was different than what typically WCW would do creatively. All right. Last question, Eric. Everybody wants to know who is going to be, John Sina's last opponent.

We're going to find out this week as we get closer and closer to this John Sina tournament finale. It's L.A. Knight and Gunther. I know you've been a big L.A. night fan. I know you have a lot of respect for Gunther. But who would make the perfect opponent for John Sina to pass the torch to? A lot of people believe we've seen John Sina win his last match. The reign of Super Sina is over. maybe he'll do the honors for his last opponent.

If you had the pencil, Eric, would it be L.A. Knight or Gunther? If I had the pencil, I give you the pencil to say, you decide. I don't want no part of this one. I am so torn. Let me just give you my gut, right? There's two sides of my brain. There's my heart and there's the other part.

My heart wants to see it be L.A. night because he's worked so hard. He's come so far. His story is so freaking clear. and so real. And what he does in the ring is so effective. He is a great talent. And he's at that time in his life where probably the next year or two are going to determine how his career ends up.

And at that peak point, in my opinion, he is at that peak point in his career, which means this would be absolutely the best time for him. and for the company to really amplify what a great story this is and how it represents the WWE product as a whole. People love that story. I mean, he'd come so far, never made it. And, you know, everybody was, you know, people were writing him off and really not thinking there was much, you know, for him.

And he kept grinding and grinding and grinding. And now look at where he is. I want to see him. I personally, Eric Bishop, the guy not the fan, well, now I'm the fan, is let me enjoy that. Let me give, let me have that feel good moment of seeing somebody that, that I know had to sacrifice so much, go through so much doubt and insecurity, stress, whatever, the physical part of it, you know, the challenge of being on the road for a living is not to be underestimated by anybody. it's a significant part of a success story because it usually leads to another version of a story. He's the guy. Now, there's the other side of my brain that looks at that character, Gunther, and I get it.

Like, I absolutely get it. This guy is feature film Healworthy. He's really, really good. almost like he was made on a computer screen and it somehow came to life. So I absolutely, the business side of me sees the value. So it would have to be dependent on my mood, what I did with that pencil. If I was in a mushy mood, I'd go with my heart. I was talking to my CFO.

I maybe would go with Gunther. We want to know from you guys. We're going to find out soon enough. Will it be Gunther or will it be LA night? Let us know when the. comments who you're picking and why and we'll talk about it next week the entire wrestling world is going to be talking about john sina next week and we plan to do so as well will we be live you don't want to miss us if we are you can ask easy e all of these great questions again next week

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