83 Weeks with Eric Bischoff - Episode 404: 83 Weeks with Eric Bischoff 12.12.25

Episode Date: December 12, 2025

On this episode of 83 Weeks, Eric and Conrad discuss the impact and legacy of John Cena. The guys also take a deep dive into if the WWE fumbled Cena's last run in the company. All that plus, Raj Giri joins the show to break down all the latest news and notes happening in professional wrestling.  MARS MEN - Get 60% off FOR LIFE AND 3 Free Gifts at Mars Men when you use 83WEEKS at http://Mengotomars.com  STEVEN SINGER JEWELERS - No one does real diamond jewelry better. Experience the difference at Steven Singer Jewelers. Go online to http://IHateStevenSinger.com  today! Always fast and FREE shipping is waiting for you. TECOVAS - Get 10% off at tecovas.com/83WEEKS when you sign up for email and texts. SIGNOS - Go to signos.com, and get $10 off select plans with code 83WEEKS. PRIZE PICKS - Visit https://prizepicks.onelink.me/LME0/83WEEKS  and use code 83WEEKS to get $50 in lineups after you pay your first $5 lineup! INDACLOUD - If you're 21 or older, get 25% OFF your first order + free shipping @IndaCloud with code 83WEEKS at https://inda.shop/83WEEKS ! #indacloudpod BLUECHEW - Visit https://bluechew.com  and try your first month of BlueChew FREE when you use promo code 83WEEKS -- just pay $5 shipping. SAVE WITH CONRAD - Stop throwing money away by paying those high interest rates on your credit card. Roll them into one low monthly payment and on top of that, skip your next two house payments. Go to https://www.savewithconrad.com to learn more.

It's Conrad, the mortgage guy, and you're listening to 83 weeks with Eric Pish off. Eric, what's going on, man? How are you? I'm doing great, buddy. Just in Tampa, Florida, had some production to do down here yesterday. I decided to spend the next four or five days here before I head to Indianapolis for Real American Freestyle 04. Hey, you know, we haven't really been talking too much about 04. We have spent a little bit of time talking about RAF-03.

Tell us about Real American Freestyle number four, because that's coming up next weekend, right? Yes, coming up next weekend in Fisher's Inn, Fisher's Arena, just outside of Indianapolis. Great card. We were going to have four world title matches on the card, which is kind of a big deal. And we've got two of those wrestlers

that are from the local area that are bringing a tremendous amount of support with them. So we expect a really excited crowd. Our co-main events are pretty interesting. seeing Wyatt Hendrickson, our world champion at heavyweight, taking on Mason Paris. A lot of people looking to this match. Of course, Wyatt Henderton, you know, made the stage by bidding Gabe of Stevenson, which no one really saw coming other than maybe Wyatt, and made a name for himself

there, big splash. Mason Paris, though, maybe the underdog in some people's mind. This is going to be a really good match. These are two, two powerhouses. And then you've got Bo Nickel, again, real American freestyle champion, and recently got a nice knockout, head kick of all things. I'm going to talk to him about that when I see him Saturday. But Bo Nickel is sticking on Yol Romero,

Yol a silver medalist Olympian, an incredibly tough MMA fighter. So look out for that match. That's going to be a hard-hitting match. lot at stake, a lot of stakes here. And we've got a whole bunch of other great action. Go to real American Freestyle.com. All the matchups are there. And definitely check us out on Fox Nation because we are making history every single month.

We were excited to be with you here today at 83 weeks, but we hope that you will certainly check out Real American Freestyle. You can get your tickets now at real American Freestyle.com. And of course, watch along on the Fox Nation app. And I got to tell you, man, I'm so excited for your success. I know the name of this show, sort of champions the success you had in professional wrestling. Does this real American freestyle experience feel like a new lease on life for you creatively? It definitely does.

It's creatively a much, it's a much different challenge than what I'm used to because in the sports entertainment version of professional wrestling, of course, you're writing your stories, you're creating stories, which is a really fun process, by the way. But real American freestyle, this is, as they like to say, inside the wrestling business, this is shoot wrestling, baby. This is the real deal. So your stories have to develop organically and finding those elements of these athletes, real personalities, they're real backstories, their real goals, challenges. Finding those stories and then bringing them to life is a different challenge, really, than I'm used to.

Now, I experienced a lot of that in producing. reality television with Jason Hervey. That's one of the reasons why I felt so comfortable taking a run at this. Because once you kind of figure out the way to find those stories and then start to package that story in a way that is entertaining for people to watch or allows people to connect to the athlete, that's the challenge. It's different really than I'm used to, but I love it. It's it's just a great opportunity.

I don't know any other way to say it. I know I probably over say this, but don't care. Legitimately, I feel so blessed to have this opportunity. Because I'm working with young people, you know, 30-year-olds that are, you know, creative. They're full of energy and passion. And they've got experience and knowledge and resources that are new to me. And being able to learn from them is also, you know, a big part of this, the fun of this for me, really. Well, I can tell you're having a lot of fun.

I hope that folks will check it out. As a reminder, you sign up for just a few bucks a month and you get access to a whole bunch of content on the Fox Nation app. But you can also check out the previous Real American Freestyle events and you'll be able to catch next week's event. This might be one of the better values in entertainment right now. So check it out. The Fox Nation app is the home of Real American Freestyle and go see them in person just outside

of Indianapolis next weekend at real American freestyle.com. Eric, enough about shoot, wrestling, brother. This week is John Sina. week as folks are listening to this. Tomorrow is the last time we will see John Sina compete. And he's been doing a media tour like nobody's business this past week.

It's been a real big rollout. And I'm sure some people are feeling like, hey, this is a lot of John Sina. I'm still looking forward to Saturday, though, because this is the first time that we've really known, I guess like even in matches like Rick Flair and Sean Michaels, We all knew Rick was going to lose that match at WrestleMania. It's like it was a secret.

But it does feel different than when you know going in, win, loser draw, this is it. It's a wrestling first that I remember for WW. Can you think of another time in history something like this has happened? I certainly can't. Of course, memory and history are not my strong points when it comes to wrestling. But no, I don't. And this does feel differently, even if it has happened before, obviously, I wasn't around to Washington,

or didn't pay attention. But I can't imagine that any story like this, a retirement story or tour, if you will, has created that sense of, wow, this is really it. I mean, how often is quote-unquote retirement really it in professional wrestling? This one, we all know, is really it. And I think it's been set up with a little bit of a stump. in the very beginning, in my opinion, with the sort of quasi-heel turn.

But everything after that has been a John Sina story. And I think reflects John Sina's career and who he is as a person. I'm really happy for John and for fans of John Sina. We want to know what you guys think of the John Sina retirement tour. That's what we're going to be spending a lot of time talking about. Let us know in the comments. And something I want you to think. about through the course of our conversation today, Eric, and I'm not saying we'll tackle it

head on right now, but in the back of your mind, be thinking about if you could have given this John Cena retirement tour tribute to one WCW performer, who would it have been? In this alternate timeline, if WCW continues, and now you're going to try this sort of farewell tour, which has worked so well in music and comedy and television and movies, why not try it in pro wrestling? Hell, it worked in sports. I remember when Kobe Bryant announced, hey, this is my last season for every market he visited. It was, hey, this is Kobe's last visit to So-and-so town. And it made it special. So I want you to be thinking about, hey, if you were to do that for a WCW wrestler, who would you pick? And if you're watching with us here on YouTube, let us know in the

comments. Who else do you wish would have gotten this sort of farewell type treatment? We, of course, are going to be talking a little bit about Saturday night's main event and the John Sina retirement tour and your favorite John Sina memories and all of that today. So join the conversation in the comments with us here. But this is unusual, you know, that you see someone have a farewell tour like this in pro wrestling. But it's hard to argue with the success, Eric, you know, it seems like it certainly worked. This is the most profitable year in WWE history. They're setting gate records everywhere.

They're setting merchandise records everywhere. Just record revenues all across the. the board. And you got to assume, of course, you and I are not in the room. We don't know, but we have to assume, I think, that they probably sold new deal to Peacock. And a big piece of this deal is you're going to get John Cena's last match. And I know that there's a lot of television rights discussions about, you know, multi-year contracts and we're going to go live every week and all that sort of thing. But in an era where I think everyone is familiar with the word, WrestleMania, and maybe to a lesser-dreduce.

degree. Some people have heard a SummerSlam and things like that. I think if you were to just call it, John seen his last match, it feels like from a bidding standpoint, from an interest standpoint, it might be second only to WrestleMania for the year. I'm talking about to the mainstream from an SEO standpoint. Would you agree with that? I would agree with that, without a doubt. And it just speaks to the power of John's career in the equity he has, the value in the equity that he has with the audience. And it would be, because here's from, I think, from a programmer's point, and listen, I'm going to be the first to admit, programming for streaming is probably

the philosophy behind it is probably somewhat different than commercial television, because it's a customer acquisition part of streaming that is a priority for streaming platforms, particularly ones that are not making money yet because they don't have enough of a subscription base, which is the very reason why I'm convinced. You know, a Peacock, for example, or any other streaming platform is so interested in WWE, because in general, professional wrestling sports entertainment version of professional wrestling fans are some of the most loyal fans you're going to find. So if you know that, which everybody in the television industry does,

because they've done their research, and there's been extensive research done across the boards by different research groups, focus groups. You know that not only is sports entertainment a major draw and a great choice for customer acquisition, because it is so effective, because the audience is so loyal, but then you have a major event, almost to your point, as significant to the consumer, to the fan as potentially a WrestleMania because of all the value that John Cena has built for his brand within WWE. It's a perfect combination for a massive amount of new customers that perhaps a platform didn't have before.

So it's not only a sales pitch, it's a tactical way to go about building as much of a subscription basis you can with your investment. Well, it's clear that John Sina has transcended and he's one of the biggest names in the game now, not just in professional wrestling, but in pop culture, you know, just in Americana. I don't feel like I can turn on the TV and watch live television and not hear John Sina voiceover a commercial. So I'm happy that he's getting to go out on his terms. We're going to be talking about that today.

We'll also be talking about what is highest and best use, maybe. We've just heard that he just signed a new five year deal with the WWE. What do you do with a fellow like that? We'll talk up and talk to Eric about that as well. But first, we need to brag about Mars men. If you haven't already, I want you to check this out. And I'm talking to you specifically if you're one of those guys who you feel like, you know what, man, getting older sucks. The reason guys think that is because there's testosterone production starts going down. And that's not really supposed to

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John Sina yourself. We haven't really talked about this much, but if memory serves, didn't my man throw you in the back of a garbage truck once? Yeah, yeah, he did. I don't know, it's one of the prouder moments of my career. I know that sounds weird, right? Why would

that be a proud moment for you but I you know it's like when I got to WWE I went to W I had to kind of mentally prepare myself because I knew that you know I was in for a transition I went from the guy running the company that could pretty much do what I felt was right when I felt it was right it didn't really have to get approval from anybody and that was pretty comfortable for me I got used to that and then to go into an environment where I knew I was just talent and I had to really focus for myself on going into every television show. When I get on a plane and leave Phoenix or leave Los Angeles or wherever I was at the time to fly to a Monday night raw, I spent hours talking to myself, reminding myself, here's what I'm here to do.

I'm here to take whatever they give me and make it as good as I possibly can. I'm not here to tell them whether or not I think it's a good idea. And I know that sounds simple, but when you're someone like me who's a little driven and I'm capable of getting pretty passionate about things, at that point, when I get to that level, I get pushy. I want to make sure my opinions are heard and all that. And I had to remind myself not to allow myself to get into that frame of mind because it would go downhill fast. It would quit being fun.

That's what I mean. And it worked for me. There was only two times that I ever took anything I was given. And I'd usually get it the night before. But there was never a time when I took my narrative, whatever was written for me, and said, what if we do it a little different? It just never happened. Two times.

The first time was, I got a script about doing a kiss my ass segment with Vince. I threw a flag on that one. Nobody ever brought it up again. They changed the script. They took it out, disappeared. Never another word was mentioned about it. Well, that went nice.

The only other time is when John Cena threw me into garbage truck. or what he did is he hit me with this finish. What was it called? What was this finish called? The FU. The FU, yeah. I thought it was going to say F5, but then I had Brock Lesnar breathing down my back.

Yeah, the FU. Originally, it was John that was supposed to throw me in the truck in the garbage truck. And when I got this script, I said, I don't think that's what the audience really wants to see. Let's pay off the Eric versus Vince story. I mean, you bought the, company. What's left? Throw that other guy in the garbage. That's the end of the story.

And we have a chance to tell that story for those who will, you know, recognize it and, you know, put two and two together. They'll get a big kick out of it. The rest of the audience who doesn't do the math and doesn't really know why, you know, at least I was thinking that's the way to do it. They're going to join it anyway. It's not like they won't understand it. So I, you know, I threw a flag on that one and just laid it out. And said, Vince, you're, you need to throw me in the garbage strike not John I don't have me heat with John John's gonna hit me with his finish well they get Jack gets what John wants it John's fans get what John want what they want for John and then we got the other side of the quine now Vince

gets his shot and that kind of completes a story for some people and otherwise just provides a kind of makes sense finish the whole scene and same thing not a word just changed it and it wasn't that big of a change and it made sense so it didn't have to really didn't require a team effort. But that was the only other time. And I'm proud of that because I think it made it better. You know, whether I ended up in the garbage truck or Vince did, it didn't matter to me. What mattered to me is that it made sense and it got the reaction we wanted to get. And it did. So I'm proud of that. Any chance you remember when that happened? What do you mean when? It was 20 years ago last week. Really? December 5th, 2005 was your

final raw as GM and that's when john sina dumped you in the garbage truck i had to flip a coin and we're going to talk about that last week or we're going to talk about it this week i thought hey you know what since john sina brought you to the end of your w w w and now we're talking about his end of his w w w i thought hey we'll save it for this week but i just think it's kind of wow i don't know ironic that it was 20 years and one week later and john seen is wrapping it up too time flies doesn't it? Time flies, but the timing is unique too. You know, you look at that was really the end of my, you know, WWE run, so speak, clearly. You know, still went back and forth from little tiny appearances and cameos and stuff like that. But that was pretty much it as far as weekly

television for me. But that happened the same time John's ending his career. And he was really just, he was in the early stages of his career when I first started working with him in 2002, I think. he was still pretty new in his career. Wow, it's just fascinating. Yeah, time does fly, man. Time is a real head trip. If you think about it too much, it gets trippy. You know, there are some comparisons, you know,

WWE, well, wrestling in general. Sometimes we hear the thing said, you know, there's nothing original anymore. Everything is a derivative. Everyone's copying or borrowing or straight up stealing an idea. And we know one of the ways that Stonecolds Steve Austin became one of the, if not the top draw in the history of the business, is he had some sort of nemesis in the boss.

It was the boss versus the star employee. It was Mr. McMahon versus Stone Cold Steve Austin. And clearly seen a run, we'll call it 04 is when he started to get hot with the U.S. title, 05 and 06, or really trying to establish him as he's not only our world champion, he's going to be the guy. And I find it interesting that they thought, hey, let's, Let's lean into what worked with that formula with Stone Cold and Vince McMahon, and now we'll do it with Eric Bischoff and John Sina. Did you see those parallels at the time?

I didn't, honestly. I didn't, but I can certainly see why that would pop into somebody's head. And, yeah. John Sina as the guy, you know, when you think about him battling for that position, it's interesting because I feel like his story is almost one of perseverance. It almost maybe didn't happen. You know, he was switching up the look every week to match the teams of whatever the colors in the city were. This is the ruthless aggression era. And then we know he becomes the rapper and he tries the heel thing.

But it evolves into this never give up hustle, loyalty, respect, spinning title, baby face. And they were trying some new things. I mean, it's interesting because I think if almost anyone else would have tried to do a rap out, it would have been laughed out, but it actually enjoyed some success. We know at different times Randy Savage put out an album, and I think once upon a time, Hulk Hogan put out an album. But they really tried some things creatively, and I can't help but think, if they would have tried all of these new things with anybody else, could it have worked?

Or was John Cena capable of taking the arrows and continuing to, what is the phrase you like to use? Endeavor to persevere. Yeah. You know, when I said early on in the show that John's tour is really a reflection of who John is as a person. And then we talk about hustle, loyalty, respect. To me, that's it. Of all the different gimmicks, perhaps, that John tried out early on in his career to kind of find what fit properly and felt organic and real,

at least real enough for sports entertainment. At the core of all of it was hustle loyalty and respect. And if you look at where John Sini is right now, look at some of his most recent interviews, controversially talking about, in some cases, I think I heard it with, was it Howard Stern, or somebody about a year ago, a year and a half ago talking about the Vince McMahon situation.

And John early on came out and said what he said. I'll paraphrase, but just basically, even at that time at the peak of the controversy really jack came out and said i'll always love Vince big man i'll always you know he was he's he stood by Vince maybe that stood up for but stood by Vince that's the loyalty the hustle is as you pointed out everywhere you look right now you see john's television networks and cameras and media aren't you know coming to him in all cases it's him on tour promoting him doing what made john's a workhorse at the peak of his career and why I think Vince McMahon knew that he could count

on John Sina in a way that perhaps he hadn't been able to count on a champion in a long time. So go see Boston, walked out of the building because he didn't like creative. There wouldn't be any potential for that relationship in terms of that ultimate level of trust. But John Sina did the work and did it early on and he's doing the work now. It's the hustle, it's the loyalty. And I think the respect for the business is in part what you've been seeing creatively because I'm sure John has had influence to say the least over how his career played out. And he's making other people along the way as best he can within the context of the story

of what's going on. I think we're seeing it with with Gunther. You know, there's been a lot of discussion. It's because they're going to be the next guy who's going to be the next guy. you know people he's got when there's has he has his fan base he has his detractors a lot of them got you know roasted this past monday night rap on gunther's he can't cut a good promo well there goes that one so that's in part because of this opportunity with john sena and everybody's got their eyes on this because it's john sina well john sina certainly benefits

w w w w w w certainly benefits but who benefits the most that guy that you're looking at right right now on 83 weeks.com. That guy benefits the most. And that's the respect for the business. Uh, and what makes the finish of this match so interesting. Because if John stays on brand, it's going to be a good night for Gunther.

Recently we heard John Cena reveal that he didn't stay on brand in his match with AJ Styles. I want to talk about that in a moment, but I think you said something interesting there. you know, talking about, you know, running the play, basically. I think that's the way Dutch Mantell would say it. Hey, just got to go run the play. John Cena has earned a reputation of, or at least that's the narrative we've heard.

He gets creative and then he goes and runs the play. And certainly in all the interviews we've heard since he's been back more full time with WWE, as he always says, hey, that's above my pay grade. So I want you, Eric, to be thinking in regards to he's going to be able to make almost anything work, even if we throw him something back. be the WCW equivalent of that. While you're thinking about that, I want the guys listening to this to have one less thing to think about.

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drew up, they could pull it off. Couple. Rick Flair, right off the bat. I mean, once you got over, you know, once he got comfortable with an idea, whatever, you know, creative issues he, he, he would have once he sees it in his head and, and maybe modifies it to the extent he felt, uh, worked best for him in his character. That's saying. you know, Rick Flair can wrestle a broom and make the broom look really good.

That would be hearing that. You just had to get him over, you know, the first hump or two and getting him into the idea if he wasn't originally. Sting, same same way. Sting would actually in some respects be a little harder if you ran into a creative, you know, challenge with the idea. He just didn't feel certain aspects of it, so to speak. Because Steve was so deliberately thoughtful. He never gave you an answer a yes or a no, unless it was something obvious like, do you need more coffee? But if it was a creative, you know, kind of conversation and, you know, maybe not only say tug war, but just trying to find the sweet spot together,

he was so thoughtful that it took him forever before he'd really wrap himself around it. idea. But once he did, he was zero, zeroed in. I mean, he was right on target and stuck with it. So those two guys in particular, I think, were in some respects creatively bulletproof, which, you know, probably lends itself to a lot of the, sometimes the frustration in their careers. We, uh, we're talking all things, John Sina. And you mentioned just before we took a break there, that, uh, with regard to this match with Gunther tomorrow, if, John Sina stays on brand. I only bring this up because John Sina recently sat down with Chris Van Vleet

and did an interview where they discussed his match against AJ Stiles that happened earlier this year. You may recall that John Sina reached in his jorts and pulled out a sheet of paper and handed it to the ring announcer at Lisa Taylor and, well, here's what he said. Dude, I just wanted to do something nice for my guy. I didn't even show Alicia until I handed her the paper. I went about it the wrong way. I went into business for myself.

I should have gotten permission to do that, and I would have gotten permission to do that, but I told no one about it because I wanted to do something special. In doing so, the people running the show felt surprised, and that's not a position to ever want to put them in because they award me such creative liberty. We're all trying to make these moments special, and we're all on the same team,

and it shouldn't be me doing something outside of that realm. If I tell my teammates, hey, let's do it, I can keep it from AJ, I can keep it from Alicia, but if I tell my teammates who are crafting the show, maybe they make it look better. The first thing I did was think it was pull a few, it was pull a few creative individuals aside and say, I'm sorry,

that will never happen again. I know where I effed up. I'm so sorry and I went into business for myself. That's not me. I hope you look at my body of work and all the times I've asked for permission. And this is the one time I asked for forgiveness. It got the best of me, but I wanted to do something nice for AJ.

To jog your memory, Eric, he basically handed a sheet of paper. I remember. Okay. Well, so the audience knows. They, he handed Alicia a note where he had described AJ as total nonstop action, the ace and undisputed boss of the bullet club. So a little tip of the cap to his prior lives in TNA and New Japan.

And John Cena is basically telling Chris Van Vleet, hey, I didn't run that past WWE executives and just asked for forgiveness. I appreciate the way he handled this. He really wanted to do it. Maybe he thought they would say no. So this is one of the few times. He asked for forgiveness rather than permission. What do you make of this story, Eric?

I love John Cena even more as a person. I mean, I felt that as you were reading it. Now, I didn't see the Van Lee interview, but as you're summarizing it and reading it, that's John. And I just love the fact that he's willing, first of all, that he even recognizes. And this is something that if a lot of people that are in the wrestling business today and making a lot of money doing it, fail to really appreciate and understand, your relationship with production, the people who ultimately

have the final say in how you look on television and how your action appears on television and how your botches appear or don't appear on television. Those people have your careers in their hands more than you do, frankly. And John acknowledging the disrespect, that's what that was. It was disrespect. None of those production people were probably upset at the fact that they didn't have an opportunity to make the moment a better moment, because frankly, I don't think it would be possible other than camera shot selection and anticipating

that, you know, what's going to happen next to the camera can be there as AJ really first begins to realize what was happening. That's a very cool moment because it's organic. And I don't recall whether or not, you know, the tight cameras, the handheld cameras on the court of the ring, were able to capture that or not. Hopefully they did. But if they didn't, that might be an example of someone being professionally frustrated, that they didn't get an opportunity to contribute.

That does make people angry. It's disrespect. And for John to even acknowledge that, even be aware of it, helps explain why John is as a character who is a big deal and why it matters to millions of people. around the world. But I think it's cool that he acknowledges it in public. I think that coming from John Cena, those words coming from John Cena and framing how important the creative people that you never get to meet as fans, you know, wouldn't know if they showed up at your doorstep.

Those are the people that make the stars. Everybody else. And for John to acknowledge that's, that's the, again, he's not brand. That is the John Cena brand. Hustle, loyal. and respect. And he may have disrespected them, but that was a choice. And I would bet you. And I'm going to ask John next time I get the opportunity. Did he make that decision? Because it was a conscious decision to either tell production or not tell production. He didn't come to that decision easily. He knew he had to make one. And I think the equation was, do I tell production and maintain that respect to them or do I keep it from everybody and try to get the most organic reaction possible because sometimes

when things happen that no one expects it just feels more real whether it's because the cameras are just a little bit behind or people look a little confused whatever that is there are brief moments of a situation like that where the reality becomes a character in the show and that was one of of the opportunities to I would bet that John decided to bet on the moment because the moments are what people remember, not the camera shots. People are going to remember that moment for a long time. We want to hear from you. What are your favorite moments about John Cena's career in WWE? Let us know in the comments below. And of course, we're talking about the retirement tour.

We're going to talk about Travis Scott. Everybody's kind of been mums the word on that for quite a while. Paul recently talked about that. So we do want to touch on that. John Sina appeared on the Joe Rogan podcast, and they talked about Vince McMahon. We definitely want to talk about that. And what was supposed to happen? What was the original plan with the heel turn that was all discussed in the John Sina, Chris Finn, Vleet interview?

So stay tuned for all of that. But Eric, one of the things that I wanted to talk about with regards to John Sina, and I asked you a few moments ago, if you were to try to think of the right guy, to sort of celebrate with a proper send-off from his WCW on someone who was similar to John Sina and that he was worthy of a retirement tour, city to city and saying farewell to all of his fans. I asked you that towards the top of the show. Have you come up with an answer? Who would have been the right guy to get a farewell tour in WCW, Eric?

Yeah, I had an answer to the minute you asked the question, actually. That was an easy one for me. if now we're, you know, we're armchair booking here, fantasy booking. If Rick Flair would have been in the frame of mind and had decided it was his time, not somebody deciding for him because that would never work. But if in this fantasy environment that we're living in it for the moment, if Rick would have been to the point where he had something else he wanted to move on to do and was engaged in the idea

without a question, Rick Flair. And there's not even a close second, to be honest. You know, that's interesting that you say that. I get why you say that for sure. I mean, we know that Rick was going to wrestle as long as he possibly could. And maybe I helped with some of that. We'll move on. But I do want to ask, you know,

when you think about a farewell tour for a wrestler like that, I think most of the time you would think about, a baby face. And I know that Rick Flair, while he did operate as a heel, he was, you know, cheered in certain towns and revered and respected. But I think it's interesting when we take a look and we think about who was the face of WCW. I think so many people yourself and myself included, we probably think of Rick Flair as being the face of that brand. But if you really think about it, WCW became a thing in late 88. So 89, 90. He's gone in 91 and 90. He's gone in 91 and 92. He's back in 93. So he goes eight more years. So he's got about 10 years there.

But I think people associate him with the WCW brand more than almost anybody else. Even though when you think about WCW at its true peak, I'm saying 96, 97, 98, Flair was not necessarily a regular part of those main events. Why don't you think we consider Hulk? to be more of the face of WCW because I realize that we would say, hey, it's a brief run. But wouldn't we also apply that same logic to Stone Cold or the Rock and the WWF? Why do you think that is? I'll just focus on why Rick versus Hulk, for example, or Sting.

Yeah, Hulk's association with WCW is a, a brand was relatively short in this context short why would he you know have that you know farewell tour status the you i at least associate that and i think the fans do as well i associate that with that kind of legendary iconic long-term relationship and while wcd really started in technically 1980 or 89 as a legal entity. That fan base that was ultimately the WCW fan base, which was the Turner Broadcasting footprint at that point in time, was still predominantly, without question,

the southeast part of the United States, which was Jim Crackett Promotions and Florida Championship Wrestling, whatever territories were Rick Flair had a major presence, long before WCW became an acronym. So I think the legacy, the length of time, generations, really, even by the late 90s, almost two generations, had been Rick Flair fans for a long, long time, whether it was under the Jim Crockett promotions, NWA,

or whether it was WCW, it was the same fan base. So Rick, people associated Rick Flair, obviously with Jim Procket promotions and NWA, and then transferred that loyalty to WCW. So it was really a much longer period of time in the fans, in terms of a fan relationship with Rick Flair than anybody else in WCW. And Holcogne will was then and will always be more closely associated with WCWE than WCW. despite the revenue and the, you know, a cup of coffee in the big scheme of things that, you know, WCW overtook WWE. Well, we want to hear from you guys. The answer from Eric Bischoff is Rick Flair.

If Eric and WCW could have given a farewell tour to any WCW performer, had WCW persisted, of course, who deserved this John Cena treatment? I would have argued Sting. I think that would have been my answer. I think that is a closer parallel to John Sina, but man, who can complain about a Flair retirement tour? I know he would have loved it. And I know that everybody listening will love their Tocovus. You know, I gave my dad some of these last year for Christmas. He absolutely loved them. I've told that story a bunch here. Eric's rocking his Tocovus right now. You know, anywhere worth going

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It's time for the wrestling news update with Raj Geary. Raj Geary, I am so glad that you are with us here because there has been so much news going on this week. It's been absolutely crazy. As we recorded last week, we found out, hey, there may be more to this Warner Brothers Discovery deal. Is Paramount back? What do you make of what's going on, Roche? They're back. Eric kind of called it last week where he was really doubtful that Netflix will end up getting WBD when this is all said and done.

and basically Paramount this past week launched a hostile bid, a hostile takeover bid for WBD. And so to kind of simplify it, what they're saying is that their offer was superior to the Netflix offer. Netflix offered 2775 per share and to acquire just the studios and the streaming HBO Max, not the linear channels. Paramount, they went with a 30,000. dollar per share, all cash offer for the whole thing. So basically that includes the linear channels. So basically what it comes down to is what the value of those linear channels is. Now, they're going David Ellison Paramount, they're going directly now to the WBD shareholders and making their case of why their bid is superior. They feel like David Zazov basically

ghosted them over the past month during their negotiations. Basically once they were in the final stretch with Netflix, you know, kind of stop listening to Paramount. So that's kind of where things start now. They have WBD has 10 days to respond. And the gist of it is what the linear networks are worth. Now, David Ellison believes the linear networks are only worth a dollar per share. So if you take that dollar per share, add it to Netflix is 2775, is 2875. so the Paramount bid is better.

Netflix hopes that the valuation is more $3 to $5 per share. So even if you take that low end, the $3 per share, that makes it $27.75 plus $3 per share, $30.75 per share, if you were to include linear. So that makes the Netflix deal superior. So Paramount's really desperate to get this thing. And it's interesting, the betting markets right now, Polymarket, they have the odds of Paramount getting WB.

at 49% over Netflix at 37% with neither getting it at 17%. So betting markets right now with this hostile takeover bid are favoring paramount to get it in the end. Honestly, if I can just jump in because there's a lot there. And I haven't been following this. I mean, because this stuff changes six or eight times a day. I mean, if you're not on top of it, you're reading yesterday's news. but the valuation of the linear networks i find that one the gamesmanship behind all of this though

when and why information is being leaked to whom by whom is really the most fascinating story behind all of this you know obviously that just the mechanics of the deal in the way it's coming together and he offers now a hostile takeover. That in and of itself is the premise of a great dramatic story or series in this case, the way it's going on. But it'll be interesting to see politically how much regulatory issues are the deciding factor. The math is close. You can argue one way or the other, which is the most valuable offer when it comes to shareholder value.

There are argument. But you have to factor in the political part of it. which includes the regulatory issues, not only here in the United States, but internationally. That's a risk that comes with the Netflix deal. While on paper, yeah, it looks good. And perhaps from the perspective of some, a better offer financially, but it also comes with a ton of risk. How do you factor the risk into that equation if you're a shareholder?

I didn't mean to cut you off, Raj, but I know that there's been a report out there. I don't know if this is real or not. I'm wondering if you saw this. But apparently after there was a denoted sovereign wealth behind the Paramount bid, now it looks like there were three Saudi investors and some other folks, but also Jared Kushner's private equity firm. So the president's son-in-law is on the Paramount side. That feels like that has to be a leg up if you're wondering about any potential regulatory issues, right, Raj? Absolutely. And yeah, the reports did come out that there were large investments.

So although Paramount's deal is all cash, it includes large investments by three Middle East sovereign wealth funds and Jerry, which is backed my Middle East cash. So whether that would face hurdles, also, you know, with Netflix, the regulatory issues would be if it's a monopoly with streaming. But on the other side with Paramount, they own CBS and, you know, their own channels. And so on top of that, they would be acquiring all of WBD's channels. So you got CNN, TV, T&T. So does that face regulatory issues with just how big that will be on the linear side? So and Donald Trump, President Trump, just past week, expressed he was upset with Paramount because of an interview they aired, excuse me, with Marjorie Taylor Green on 60 minutes.

and he wasn't happy with that interview, how that went. He said the new Paramount leadership is just as pat as the old Paramount leadership. So this thing, as Eric said, is just changing day by day. It's going to be a mess. But right now, again, the betting markets are favoring Paramount at the end coming up ahead. And if they do, WBD has to pay a $2.8 billion breakup fee, a reverse breakup fee, for taking the Paramount offer. Obviously, if Netflix was not able to, if Netflix wanted it and wasn't able to acquire WBD because of regulatory issues, they would have to pay a $5.8 billion breakup fee.

So, Raj, where are you putting your money? What's your bet? Who's going to get it? I mean, I think Paramount. I think they desperately want it. The synergy is more there. Obviously, with Paramount getting it, there would be a bigger loss of jobs because there is such a synergy between the chance. the streaming services. They're talking $6 billion in synergies, which would be a lot of jobs lost. And Netflix CEO, Ted Sarandoz, earlier this week, he made that case. He said, with Netflix acquiring it,

they would, it would be better for jobs. And, you know, that would be the case. But I just think Paramount, they really want it badly. I could see Netflix taking that $2.8 billion. And they don't really need WBD. You know, they have their own studios.

Their thing is watching at home with, you know, minor theatrical releases here and there. I just think, I think in the end, Paramount, get it. And obviously, that leads to how would that affect AEW? I feel like AEW, it's more of a, it's more of a direct move with Paramount because you got, you know, the Paramount Plus streaming service, HBO Max, I would assume they would combine those as opposed to keeping those separate. And you combine those, you just have, you can still have your simulcast with dynamite if they want to make that deal. Obviously, the big thing is TCO and their relationship with Paramount.

And I've heard the argument in the past that, well, ESPN, they had UFC and PFL on before, but you hadn't seen TKO, you hadn't seen UFC that aggressive with counter-programming PFL or anything like that. that. Now you see TKO being more aggressive with AEW and could it be that they put in a call to David Ellison and just say, hey, this wrestling organization is not worth it. Ari Emanuel is a mentor to David Ellison. So he obviously has his ear. So that'll be interesting to see. Obviously, the current deal for AEW, that's probably going to stay as is until it's up at the end of 2027, it's the next deal. And what options are available?

Obviously, Netflix wouldn't be an option if Paramount gets it because Netflix has WWE. Even if there's non-exclusive deal, I wouldn't see AEW on Netflix. So that's where things get really interesting. Raj, this has been a topic in the wrestling chatterbox for a few weeks. But the reality is none of this is going to have any sort of immediate impact on what fans are able to watch at home right now. I mean, we're talking if.

something happens this could be a year two more away correct yeah we're talking years again we're only in year one of AEW's three-year deal and there is an option year for wbd so yeah we're talking years nothing's changing anytime soon it's just the next TB deal is where things get interesting but it is a ways away Eric if you were AEW what would your preferred outcome B. I only asked because I've got a friend who works at AEW and I'm not saying they're necessarily on an org chart, but that person felt like, and again, I don't know if they have any inside information, but they felt like the Netflix option was worse. And I was kind of interested to hear what your perspective on that is, because if I'm honest with you, I don't know

that I can make heads or tails of this. The only thing I can think is, if I'm Tony Cohen, I might want a backup plan. I've been sort of loud and proud saying, I think the key to all of this is, hey, you want to own the content, but you also want to own the distribution. I think the television rights model, that has a shelf life. You know, you probably

want to own it if you really want to be in control of your own destiny and put your hands on the wheel. If you found yourself in Tony's spot, do you think you would have a preference for a Warner acquisition by Paramount or by Netflix? It's like, do I want to get run over by a bus or a dump truck. I don't have a good answer for that. You know, there's probably

a lot that I don't know behind the scenes structurally. But it just, look, first of all, I don't really think we know what the real deal is between WBD and AEW. You know, we know Dave Meltzer's version of it, but that's all we know. And let's start with that. So we're talking about, at least in my opinion, a kind of phantom-esque, you know, contract to begin with. And as you and Roger talking, I'm thinking, yeah, there's all this, you know, behind the scenes, nefarious kind of, you know, John Clancy kind of clandestine communications going on between David Ellison and TKO and whoever, it's this AEW thing. Let's see if we can maneuver a way to get rid of that. Yeah, maybe. I think it's far more like.

somebody's just going to break out a $13 calculator and start looking at the value. If a network, whether it's Netflix, whether it's WBD, I would imagine, you know, when you take over a company, you do a complete thorough audit from top to bottom and you're looking at where your value is. Where am I making money? Where am I losing money? And if I'm losing money, why am I losing money? And the decisions will far more likely be the result of a financial team looking at it and coming up with their perspective. And then you have an ad sales team that will essentially do the same thing. And somebody will sit back and look at the data and go, okay, what makes what makes sense and what doesn't? That's far more likely the outcome of any

discussions regarding AEW and either Netflix or WPD, then, you know, President Trump calling his buddy David Allison and David Allison, you know, conferring with TK or whatever the chain of communication would be, that's fun to talk about and think about, but it's more realistically going to just come down to math at a $13 calculator. Well, I appreciate that you like to keep it simple, and I know you like to keep it simple, and things are a little simpler, you started using Cynos, this has changed the way Eric looks at health and nutrition. He's looking better and feeling better than ever. And you can too with the help of Cynos.

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It's hard for us to imagine, but I saw John Sienin. We're going to talk about him in just a minute earlier this week where he said, hey, three weeks after I'm gone, no one will give an F because the Royal Rumble will be here and they'll be moving on. Tomorrow, of course, is John Sina's last match. We'll talk about John Sina with you in just a moment. But the next big event for the WWV is the Royal Rumble. And this will be the very first time we've had a Royal Rumble in Saudi Arabia.

And there's been some news about this, Raj. What's going on with the Royal Rumble come January 31st? Yeah, tickets went on sale for the Royal Rumble this past Wednesday and sold out instantly. Now, in the queue, apparently, at one point, there was 750,000 people. Actually, I should say devices, because there are some people who will be on their computer and their phone at the same time. But 750,000 devices logged in, trying to secure tickets, which is just unheard of. especially for pro wrestling. I mean, the most I've ever heard of, like back in the early days of AEW,

you'd hear reports of like 70,000 in Q, things like that. But 750,000 people devices is just insane. So sold out immediately. It's funny that WWEs has still not officially announced the venue. It's in Riyadh. And I'm assuming it's at the King Abdullah Financial District. district the stadium there, the King Fod International Stadium, which hosts about 60,000 people.

But they haven't announced that yet. And they are building, there's a new building that they're constructing over there that holds about 25,000 people. So I don't know what's going on there. They haven't officially announced the venue. Clearly they know the number of tickets, so I'm sure they know the venue that they're looking at.

But as right now, the Rumble is sold out, you know, big success for the city. the first international Royal Rumble, first Royal Rumble outside of the U.S. If you don't count the greatest Royal Rumble. Eric, if I had a whistle and I could throw a flag, I would do it right now. Do you buy this

malarkey that there's 750,000 devices trying to buy tickets? What do you make of that, Eric? It sounds kind of spooky to me. I don't know. It's bullshit. It's clearly bullshit. Yeah.

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. It's promotion. It's a professional sports entertainment version of professional wrestling. Raj, what do you think of that? Do you think there's any way that you buy that number? I mean, is the idea here that they want the perception of success?

I know that sounds silly, but I've always kind of considered, and I know I don't have this accurate, but I know once upon a time. Let's talk back hell 19 years ago. No, more than that, 29 years ago. the 1996 Kuwaiti Cup in the in the mid to late 90s the WWE would go do tours over there and they were sold shows or bought shows whatever you want to frame it as and so I've just kind of always assumed hey if if WWE is getting 50 million or 100 million or whatever they're getting for these big crown jewel events it doesn't really matter how many people buy or

don't buy tickets if this is really about image rehabilitation for the region Do they just want to appear successful? I'm curious, do you think this is a little bit like we've heard people online who would buy views for their YouTube or they would buy followers on their social media? Is this the same thing but for ticketing, Raj? What do you make of this? So if you were to do a Google search right now on Royal Rumble 26 ticket queue, there are screenshots of people posting. And the 750,000 plus comes from Turkey Alishik. shot of someone who had 8669,000 people in front of them.

So I don't know if that's their government putting people in the queue or manipulating that number or what. I mean, it does seem like a ridiculous number. It does, but what if it's real? Exactly. It seems like it, and I think, Conrad, you touched on it with, you know, possible, this duplication, possibly in there with people who were standing here waiting on her phone trying to order and get all that and i think there's probably some you know whatever the percentage is i'm sure there is but what if you know we're we're so quick including me by the way so quick to

jump into the oh or just promoting that over promoting and trying to create an illusion or perception which is the same thing wwe's done is the same thing AEW does every time tony con opens his mouth trying to create a reality that doesn't really exist hoping that people will believe it does. Much like we're talking about here, if in fact, Conrad, you're correct and not correct, or perhaps, as Ross pointed out, if there's photos, there's going to be videos soon,

maybe it's true. Wouldn't that be fascinating? And the one thing I'll add with the screenshots is so people who are in the queue trying to get tickets, if you see 869,000 people in the queue, you're more likely to get out of line. So what do they, by having a number that high, what do they gain? And again, Turkey Al-Sheek is not posting the higher numbers, you know, the 869,000.

He posted 753,000. You're just, you're driving away potential people to buy tickets by having a number that large. So, you know, a lot of it could be bots, you know, trying to, you know, the different brokers, trying to, but again, 750,000, 860, whatever the number is, whatever the peak was. It does sound ridiculous. It does make me, it does make me skeptical. But, uh,

and I will send you that link here. By the way, I, I had to ask Grock because I thought for sure, Eric, this is BS. And I asked Grock, what event I had the most ticket demand in history?

Because I thought, if that's what we're talking about, this has got to be near the list, near the top of the list. This is insane. But according to Grock and who knows how reliable that is. It says, Led Zeppelin's 07 reunion concert at London's O2 Arena had the highest ticket demand in history with over 20 million requests for just 18,000 available seats.

I don't know if I buy that necessarily. But still, I thought. What are we even talking about this stuff for because nobody believes anybody or anything. That's right. Brock is an innocent bystander in here. Why do you have you got to pick on Grock? I will say this. I asked Grock last week what the Thursday night's football game was and it said the,

the season ended Thanksgiving week. So you definitely got to take Grock with a grain of salt. Okay, well, what can we trust more? Grock or that there's 800,000 people waiting to buy fucking Royal Rumble tickets in Saudi Arabia. Like, what sounds more believable?

I'm changing my position on this. I'm betting it's real. Oh, God. Kids, Santa Claus is right around the corner. I'm so excited. Holiday is here. You are setting the screenshots. The screenshots are real.

Your father-in-law is Rick Flair doesn't give you the right to be a complete total cynic. I think the screenshots are real. Now, whether they manipulated the virtual queue, that's a different story. But, again, it's not just one screenshot. There's quite a few out there. I sent a link in the chat for one of them. I think the screenshots are real. Now, whether or not that's manipulated, I could totally see it.

I'm a little bit of a cynic, a skeptic with stuff like that. this. So I could see both of your points. I could see it possibly being real because it is the first rumble in Saudi Arabia, but that number just sounds ridiculous. You should run for you should run. You're a good politician. You are really good. I mean that as a compliment. I'm not trying to be a smart ass. You're so good, Raj. Well, listen, I think we're going to agree to disagree. I am with Raj in that the screenshots are not fake. I do think the bots are at play. But One thing that's different about this event that I think we kind of lose sight of when we're talking about it relative to all other events. And I don't mean this dismissive, but I'm just saying all other events, there is a promoter on the other side of this thing who's trying to sell as many tickets for as much money as he can because it's a profit center for him.

That is not the relationship with this show. I don't think Saudi Arabia wanted the Royal Rumble because they were hoping to get a return on their investment from this event. that's not what they're looking at with this. Their mission and their goal is a little different than that of a traditional promoter. So we'll see, but here's what I am excited about. It sounds like it's going to be a full house. You see there if you're watching with us at 83 weeks.com, there are screenshots 868,000, 594 people waiting for their chance to buy some Rumble tickets.

Raj, one of the things that we got to talk about before we let you go is John Sina. know that as folks are listening to this, tomorrow is his very last match. And a lot of people are skeptical about that. Oh, it's not real. Everybody has a wrestling retirement. He'll be back. And he's stated pretty loud and proud. No, this is it.

I gave you more than a year in advance. You could plan for this closure. I'm not going to compete in a WWE ring again. That will be it for me with physicality. I'll never wrestle another match. But he also revealed this week that he's sticking. around WWE. What's going on, Rosh? Well,

so yeah, John Sina, there was a ridiculous rumor that was out there in October that Sina was unhappy with how his retirement tour had been booked and his camp was contacting AEW. So, I mean, that was obviously debunked and it was ridiculous. But yeah, he announced that he signed a new five-year deal with

WVE to be an ambassador. I believe Sina that this is his last match. You know, with a lot of the other wrestlers that have retired in the past. They didn't have many other options after they retired. And so they end up coming back. Sina has tons of options. He's so busy. He's got TV deals and doing commercials. I feel like every third commercial I'm hearing Sina's voice. He's got a movie deal. So he's just so

busy all over the place. I could see him really wanting this to be the end. I, you know, because I could see him if he wanted to. He could have dragged this out until WrestleMania and told WWE, hey, let's, now that the Saturday night's main event isn't going to be on NBC, let's write this to WrestleMania. He could easily done that, and he's not. And so I think this is it. He's on as an ambassador after that. He's going to be with the WWE forever.

He's one of those that he can never believe any rumors that he's talking to anyone else. So yeah, great for him. And it'll be interesting to see how. how the retirement match goes. You know, it's great for a guy like John in the position that he's in and with this five-year deal. My take, John knows what his body is capable of doing. I think John has realized that at this point in his career, he can still go out there and he can deliver a great match and satisfy the audience, the real audience, versus those to grade the technical aspects of a match and all that stuff.

He can go out there and tell a story, create the emotion, and deliver a moment at the end of that match, whichever way it goes, that will feel very valuable to people who experience it live or watch it on television. I think John also knows that he's probably not going to be able to do that very much longer. Because you can just, you can watch John walk, not necessarily when he's on camera in WWE, but if you catch a shot of John, you know, making his way to the red carpet or just getting out of in and out of the limousine, for example, John's got some wear and tear on him. It's obvious. He's put his body through so much for so many years and has been able to really maintain, you know, a physical consistency that's very unusual in sports entertainment. But I think he knows

it's time, which is another reason why I don't think he'll ever wrestle again. I think he means it. He knows he has to commit to that. But for John, like so many other performers who don't have other options, although John does, John also has the luxury of being able to dip in and out at WWE a couple times a year in his role as an ambassador, and he'll always get that John's senior reaction, which will give him that drug that you can't get anywhere else, but, in front of 10 or 15 or 20 or 50 or 100,000 people. That drug, you'll be addicted, John will be addicted to that for the rest of his life, but he'll have an outlet to be able to go and get that hit a couple times a year.

That's the beauty of maintaining the integrity as a performer and professionalism and a connection to the audience that someone like John has. Very few, you know, Undertaker obviously has it. you know, Stokel has it to a degree. He just, Stonecold just isn't out there much. He's pretty happy on his ranch. But good for John.

Raj, before we let you go, we got to ask if you, I guess I'll ask it two ways. If you had the pencil who wins tomorrow night, Gunther or John Sina, and then secondarily, what do you think we see? Same answer? Or is it a different answer?

I would, I would do Sina. I just think, I don't know if Gunther stock goes up any more than where it already is by getting a win. I can see Sina fighting tooth and nail to lose this match. But I think he's coming off a loss to Mysterio on the last pay-per-view. He's one of the, you know, he's the top star of the century. You know, if you exclude the short runs of Stone Cold and Rock, he's the top star of the century. And sometimes with wrestling, it's just fun to have a nice farewell, you know, like we had with Sting last year. just want to see the guy go out on top.

So I'd like to see him win, and I think that's how it's going to go. I don't think they book him to lose two matches in a row on the way out. Well, let us know what you guys think below. Do you think that John Sina will win his last match, or will Gunther be past the torch? Raj, this was a blast, as always. Tell everybody how they can keep up with you and where they can hear you. Yeah, just follow me on Twitter at the Raj Geary.

and also, you know, me and Matt Morgan, we're trying to figure out our staffs out of Massive Heat, but check out Massive Heat on the podcast Heat Wrestling Network on YouTube. Thanks so much, Raj. We greatly appreciate your time. I hope you enjoyed John Cena's last match. All right. Take care, guys.

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hey, who is sort of the WCW equivalent to John Sina? If you were to parallel their careers. And I know we had fun with Grock earlier, and maybe we'll call him Grock Lesnar for the rest of the show. But old Grock Lesner said Goldberg. And I thought, what? I don't even know how that could be possible. But the parallels at Drew were the undeniable top baby face and face of the company for a while,

I guess, sold the most t-shirts, hats, wristbands, etc. Okay. I could go with that. The crowd being split, but he almost never loses. Okay. I could get with that. And it basically says that the John Cena that we've enjoyed from, say, 05 to 15, that's sort of the WCW 2000 Goldberg.

Do you see the comparisons? Or is this totally off base to you? No, it makes perfectly, it makes logical sense based on the data points that GROC uses, which is basically scanning, you know, social media for positive and negative comments in detail. It's amazing what AI can do in general. But yeah, this is where there's a perfect example of why people in the creative world don't need to worry so much about AI taking their jobs. Because when AI didn't, or GROC in this case, Grock Lesnar, I love that, didn't calculate or analyze was the value and the reality. and the relationship between the audience and the character

on an EQ level, emotional level. And that comes with the long-term nature of the relationship with a guy like Rick Flair or John Sina or any other name, or The Undertaker. The audience's relationship goes beyond the math, and that's something that AI can't calculate. Well, we want to hear from you guys. who is the John Sina equivalent?

I see we got some comments in the live chat saying sting. I don't know from a WCW perspective that I would go with Goldberg, but I do get, hey, we're pushing for some cooler heels. We've got a Superman comeback. You know, we've got the five moves of doom.

I mean, I guess I get it a little bit, but the longevity, I think, is the real differentiator for me. Because you're talking about John Sina doing it at a really high level. I'm going to say for a decade, 05 to 50s,

and I know he was around after 15, but not as full time, but he was full time, full time for 10 years. He really was as AJ used to call him in their their feud 10 years ago, the face that runs the place. So I wanted to ask you about that. We've seen a series of interviews with John Sina and everybody has sat with him, whether it was ESPN or Chris Van Vlead or Joe Rogan. Like he's done a full court press for media, including the late night talk shows. But there was one conversation that stood out to me. He said he wanted a chance to go say goodbye to all of his fans. He was prepared to work 220 dates, the old WWB schedule that included house shows.

And he wanted to visit everywhere, including the Mid Hudson Civic Center. Now, of course, that was a shout out to it doesn't have to be the glitz and glamour of a big time summer slam stadium show or WrestleMania. I want to hit all the old spots for all the fans who supported me. And he was basically told by WWE, because I guess as he explains, he had like a presentation where he said this could make real business sense. And WWE basically said that's not our business anymore. We only need you for 36 dates. If that's not the biggest telltale sign of the evolution of the business and how much this changed, I don't know what is, Eric. What's your reaction to that?

Especially WWE. WWE from the beginning was always such a live event focused business model. And it was so successful as a result of it. One of the reasons that guys back into the WWF days would talk about being on the road 300 days a year was because it was such a live event-centric business model, that being the WWF. And now it's all television licensing and merchandising. Live events are incidental, meaning you do them because you're producing a PLE or you're producing a television show. You're not doing it necessarily as a revenue base.

It's incidental revenue as opposed to, you know, the focus of your revenue model. I also want to talk to you a little bit about John St. his interview tour that he's been doing this week because one of the things that's come up are conversations about Vince McMahon and I know that he had this specific conversation with Joe Rogan and he was asked about Vince and John Cena said something like I never wanted Vince to go but he started all the gangster shit he's referring to WWE's edgy mainstream evolution he also says with regard to accountability just because of how I feel about a certain person doesn't exonerate them from being accountable for their actions.

Just because he started all this gangster shit doesn't mean he shouldn't be, he doesn't need to be held accountable for his actions. And when he was pressed about, is he really out? Is he all the way out? Sina said, no, he's out. And he also said that in my eyes, I'd like to think that time heals everything. And then he sort of campaigned for a Vince McMahon sit down with Joe Rogan.

So we'll start with that first. How bananas would a Joe Rogan Vince McMahon podcast go online? That would be that I would build my schedule around that event. That's how great. I mean, let's hope it happens. Yeah, it feels like a huge opportunity, a John Sina, Joe Rogan, or not John Cena, a Vince McMahon Joe Rogan podcast. But what do you think about him saying,

I'd like to think that, you know, time heals everything. Do you think we'll ever see Vince McMahon on camera in WWE again, or do you think that that ship has sailed, in your opinion? Deep down inside, I think we will. I've said this before maybe in private conversations. I see patterns. You know, I've watched patterns. I look for patterns in just about everything.

And I went to WrestleMania last year to see. Lex Lugar inducted. And that was the first time when Triple H, Paul Levec, got up and was a part of that. AAA's sense of some very heartfelt things about Vince McMan. You go back and watch it. Don't rely on me telling you about it. And that was the first time that I can recall,

at least on WWE television, that there was a direct reference in a positive way, somewhat positive towards and a positive acknowledgement towards Vince and giving him credit for so much. And I went now that was interesting. It's interesting that it's happening here. It's interesting that it's happening

now. This is the first time I've heard it since all the controversy. And then I began seeing more and more references over time and it started to feel like they're slowly kind of reintroducing Vince into the consciousness of the current audience

in a very subtle way, but over time, I expect to see more and more and more of that so that I'm guessing there's a certain amount of PR rehab going on, professionally managed rehab going on, that will eventually lead to some kind of television appearance, not on a regular basis, nothing like that. But, yeah, I expect to see them on TV at some point. I don't think he's me anytime in the near future. I couldn't be wrong about that. You never know, there's a lot of, you know, there's so much we don't know about the relationship between Vince and the principals at TKL. So I'll just keep the door open and bet out of the fact that I'm seeing a pattern that suggests I'm probably right. It will be interesting to see what happens long term with,

with Vince McMahon and WWV, but I think what a lot of fans want to know, and we've talked about it for weeks. I'm going to put you on the spot here now, Eric. Final answer. Well, Vince McMahon be seen on camera at John Cena's last match tomorrow night? No. I don't think so either. What about President Trump? Do you think we get a cameo from him since they're in Washington, D.C.? I bet on that.

Isn't that wild? I mean, look, right now President Trump is out there. He's on the 2026 midterm campaign trail. He started in Pennsylvania last night or the night before. So he's going to get out in front of as many people as he can, every opportunity. about where Donald Trump stands on policies going forward. 2026 is important. NBC is important.

It's a Donald Trump audience. I would bet on that. So that begs the question, of course, and I know as a rule, we don't talk about politics here on the show, but we also know that the internet wrestling community at large is largely left-leaning, and not a lot of Donald Trump supporters

are very loud and proud on social media, do you think in a weird way this is going to taint John Sina's last match if Trump is there because I feel like if Trump is there there there's going to be so much negativity towards it that it might actually undermine what they were trying to do for John Sina. I don't have a political opinion on this. I'm just mentioning that it feels like the internet would melt down if that were to happen. Let's say you. I agree with you a lot of what you just said,

but here's where we probably don't agree. When you said, you know, the pro wrestling audience is left leading by a wide margin. I disagree with that. I didn't say pro wrestling. I said IWC. Oh, the internet wrestling community. Okay. The internet wrestling community, which really only represents maybe 10% of the broader audience.

Sure. That bubble of individuals, yeah. Those are left leading individuals. Those people will melt down. Those people, you know, yeah, they're going to melt down in glorious ways that are so entertaining to watch on Instagram. It's just fun. It's great entertainment. Like if you're sitting waiting for a plane, you really don't want to get on the phone call and try to conduct any business because they're speakers are blaring about you, you know, telling him what flights coming in and all that.

So you can't really talk on the phone. There's really not a lot else to do other than return emails and look at silly shit on Instagram. and some of the silliest stuff on Instagram has got to be the internet wrestling community meltdowns when you offend any of their sensibilities. It's a hoot. But what was the question? Well, I just wonder, do you think that, you know, this is supposed to be a John Cena celebration? Oh, okay.

I got it. I got it. Will the internet wrestling community's sensitivities reverberate to the extent that it will ruin the moment if Donald Trump shows up and we'll get booze instead of cheers get it valid concern by the way um where is saturday night's main event what city Washington DC oh that makes it tricky doesn't it yes because that is a decidedly liberal city I mean lopsidedly liberal city That's a risk.

That's a risk. And honestly, it could go either way. I'm not familiar enough with the city and the demographics, particularly wrestling demographics there to take a real. I wouldn't make a bet on it, but my guess is it's a bad, it would be a bad calculus for Donald Trump to show up. It's going to be interesting to see how this is received. You know, I'm not trying to make the comparison.

I realize it's a totally separate situation. and circumstance. Unfortunately, the last time we saw Hulk Hogan on WW programming, we didn't know it was going to be the last time we would see Hul Kogan on WW programming, but he got booed. And I know that that's probably not something he expected or hoped for or wanted. And a lot of people believe it was because of previous political affiliations. And if they've got seen out there saluting the sitting president, which by the way, in any other time in history probably would have been kind of cool to think that, hey, wow, we've got the freaking president of the United States at a WWE show.

Like, when does that happen? That's pretty big time. So I'm not even saying this is going to happen, but I'm saying if it does, I could see how man, it might actually not get the reaction that we hoped that John Sainter would have on his last match. So I feel like they're almost in a damned if you do, damned if you don't. Because if the president wants to come to a show in Washington, D.C., how do you tell No, you don't. And here's a

deal with as I'm sitting here I give you my honest, you know, my gut reaction without thinking through things too much, which is why I ramble so much and get lost in my own thoughts. But what if it went the other way in Washington, D.C. Because let's look, the composition

of a sports audience, now L.A. was a unique situation and that's you got to keep that in mind. But anywhere else Trump goes, any other sporting event, including tennis, he gets huge positive reactions. So why would this be any different?

Maybe the, again, the internet wrestling community is allowed negative, you know, kind of twisted place. But I am not so sure you could bet 100%. I mean, it's risky. Like I said, the calculus is scary. But Donald Trump is also a guy that's willing to defy convention. and not necessarily go with, you know, the flow, and it may look bad on paper,

and he may feel that he's got enough support, his instinct, his gut, which has been dangerously good, he's got great instinct. He may feel differently and may show up. In and of itself, we'll make it an interesting night to watch. I know that the internet wrestling community

is not going to like this, but it is a fact that this company, WWE, is owned by TKO. They also own UFC and Donald Trump is a regular at UFC events and he gets a hero's welcome seemingly everywhere he goes in the UFC. So I'm not going to say that it is a different audience from WWE. It certainly is a different audience. But the way the internet will respond to this and react to this, gosh, I just hope it doesn't. I hope it still checks all the boxes that John Cena wants.

I think that that's what John deserves. So fingers crossed that it goes. however John wants. Here's what I know. I don't have to stress out about it and I don't plan to thanks to Enda Cloud. We've been bragging about this sponsor for a while now and I'm excited for you guys to try it. If you haven't already, you got to go check it out, man. Today's episode is brought to you by Indy Cloud. You know, your 2025 goals can wait, but your burnout can't. Inde Cloud gets it this season. Calm comes canned. Indy Cloud is your online dispensary for better nights, smoother mornings, and calmer holidays. Now with zero sugar, zero calorie THC sodas,

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Enjoy responsibly, and thanks to End the Cloud for making the reset part easy and a little more refreshing. So we're talking, of course, about John Sina. Well, this episode has really been all about John Sina. And I think we would be remiss if we didn't talk about some of the missteps or perceived missteps of this John Sina retirement tour. We mentioned earlier that he's been on the interview circuit and everybody's been talking to or about John Sina. But when he sat down with Chris Van Vleet, they had a conversation about, hey, what should have happened? There was lots of questions about a heel turn.

Was the rock supposed to be involved? Was there supposed to be a match with the rock? What was Travis Scott supposed to do? And John Cena said, who cares? It doesn't matter. We can talk about what could have been until the cows come home. And I think that's what great. That's what's great about the people who are left standing.

Certainly me and Cody, what's the change? This, all right, let's go. And so he also elaborated on being the last to know and creative decisions, which is certainly the way it was framed in the unreal documentary that, was produced for Netflix sort of behind the scenes. John said, I don't care. First of all, I'm always the last to know. It doesn't trickle down to me. If you watch Unreal, the process is genuine. I talked to Rock and then the last guy I got to call is John. Well, I'm usually the last guy they call because I'm the easiest. And he also talked about the heel turn. And he says,

this is just my perspective. What I like is people are talking about it. And the cool thing is, people who are critical of it, apparently had some idea in their head about what they wanted, which is great, because that means you're attached. That means you care. So I appreciate that he's trying to take a healthy approach to this, Eric, and he's saying, hey, if you're critical of it, it means you care because if you don't care, then you won't be critical. So I like that he's talking about the passion of the WWE fan base. But I got to say, when you start with who cares, I think that way, because a lot of fans are really invested in this, not just with their time and their emotions, but with their wallet. And I feel like a lot of fans would be like, well, hey, I care.

Every time I turn around, there's a higher ticket price and things cost more than they used to. And I'm investing in this. And I'm not feeling fulfilled. And I know they can simply watch and change the channel. But I don't know. For John seemed to be this media savvy PR expert, starting the explanation. with who cares? I think he probably wishes he had that one back. What's say you?

Who cares? I mean, it's such a non, yeah, if all you do is read the first two words or listen to the first two words of a pretty good explanation, I think a very revealing one because I think it's honest. If you're so offended by that and you feel hurt by that for whatever reason, then who cares? Really. I mean, what are you supposed to do? Sanitize every word you say in an interview with someone where you're trying to explain something that's giving your real honest feelings about something and be afraid to do so because there might be somebody out there who's so offended by the first two words of a, you know, five-minute conversation. I don't know. It's hard for me to feel empathy for people like that.

Well, I think you missed the point of the question respectfully. Uh, if I'm a fan and I'm disappointed in something and I've expressed that online and the people who took my money said, we don't give a shit. Don't you think eventually we start to lose some consumer confidence by doing that? Like we don't know. You say talking about a storyline. He was not talking about the prices of tickets for crying out loud. We're conflating, you know, emotional issues and concerns now and internet wrestling headlines with the subject of that interview, which was tell me about, you know, the heel turn and, you know, your perspective on it or whatever it was. I didn't see the interview, but based on what you suggested to me, the conversation was about,

specifically about disappointment in the way that storyline started out, not in ticket prices. So, complaining the two confuses me. Well, I guess what we're talking about is a lot of people are going to beat up this John Cena a retirement tour for a long, long time. And they're going to say shoulda, woulda coulda, and a lot of that is going to fall on the Travis Scott discussion. Earlier this week,

Logan Paul had rap personality Joe Budden on his impulsive podcast, and Joe had recently gotten into WWE and attended some events and started paying some more attention, and he saw rappers like Travis Scott appearing with WWE. So he

asked Logan, what happened? And Logan is really the first person to talk about this. It basically says that Travis Scott no-showed them. They were supposed to be building towards a big six man and then it never happened because

Travis Scott just disappeared. You spent a little time working with these different celebrities and trying to get that crossover mainstream appeal. Is Travis Scott, does this sound like a little bit of deja vu from Dennis Rodman? We know ultimately he showed up, but it wasn't always easy,

right? Or not even close and not even close. Dennis Rodman was Dennis Rodman, right? And he had his priorities, but one of those priorities was to get the work done and to be as good as he could be. Now, you can question his lifestyle and the impact that that had on his ability to be the best it could be. But while he was late from time to time, and yes, you had to make sure there were people handling him to get him from point A to point B. Yeah, that's a pain in the ass. But once he got where he was supposed to be, and he always did. He never know-showed us.

There was never a concern as to whether or not Dennis would show up when he was supposed to. Not even a thought. Can't compare those two individuals at all. But celebrities in general, because look, you take somebody that's an entertainer and another form of entertainment, an actor, rapper, whatever, ice skin, it doesn't matter. And you put him into the world of professional wrestling. They have a perception of what that is. and how difficult it may be or what it may be like.

And then they get involved, and it's an completely different reality than what they expected most of the time. And some people that are primarily athletes, they embrace it. They'll overcome it. It's a challenge. They want to be good at it. They want to put on a great show. They want to look good out there doing it. Dennis Robin, Kevin Green, Steve McMichael, you name it.

People that get in there and actually do their work and want to be good at it. Bad money did the work. He felt comfortable in that environment. Logan Paul obviously excelled in that, taking from one world and being thrust into another, a la Joseph Campbell hero's journey. You know, he's walking a tremendous amount of success doing Logan Paul things and they decides,

hey, I think I'm going to give this wrestling thing a shot. He does and absolutely excels at it. That's greater. More common, it's like, Why did I get into this? So I think Travis probably a big deal and found out otherwise. It probably wasn't prepared. Dennis was always ready.

He not always on time, but he was always ready. I think the Travis Scott misstep in WWE is going to be something that people talk about for a long, long time. I hate that it happened during John Cena's retirement tour, but in the end, it's all going to end well and it's all going to end tomorrow night. I thought the timing was curious. I don't know if you saw this. We're not going to end on a negative note,

but there was one piece of negative stuff this week about John Sina that kind of caught me off guard because I've never heard this sort of stuff before. David Otunga, who we know and have had on the program before to talk about the various legal issues, we know as a former WW superstar and a real life attorney. And he shared some of his experiences with John Sina when he was trying to cut teeth in WWE and it wasn't altogether positive. And I think that this is perhaps a tarnishing his sterling reputation to some.

But I think it also proves more than anything that, Hey, Johnson is just a real guy. And I'm not advocating any of the bad behavior that was discussed with the David Otunga interview Eric, but I think everybody has the compassion or not, not the compassion, but the capacity to change and to compare and hold John Sina accountable now for a long story that I guess these guys have made men's long ago.

But I understand Otunga's trying to build a YouTube channel and the timing right now is everybody's talking about John Sina. I mean, hell, look at us. We're talking about John Sina. He did have a story to tell and he shared it. But it really does come out of left field because it feels like any sort of negativity about John has always been played very close to the vest. I've never heard anyone come out publicly and be critical of some of the bad,

behaviors of John Sina. Have you ever heard anything like this? This is a first for me. Never. I've never heard it. I've never seen it. Now, I'm not close friends with John. I want to make that clear. I think the world of him and we stay in touch occasionally via text. But I spent a lot of time around John. Socially, a couple times. Famously, John Cena helped stir the pot along with Bruce Pritchard, convinced me to wrestle Jerry Briscoe on his 60th birthday, sent me home the next morning with a broken thumb, and I had a mat carpet burn from the Marriott Hotel bar.

A carpet burn on my face and made it look like I got my ass kick the night before. So I got off the plane, come home to my wife, and she thought I ended up getting my ass kick. She said, what happened? And I told her, I challenged Jerry Briscoe to a takedown. contest at the Marriott Bar and whatever city we're in. And John Cena was the one that stirred that crap up. John Cena and Bruce Pritchard combined, conspired just to watch Briscoe tortured me.

That being said, when I watched John Cena backstage for several years now, you know, every Monday night, once a month in pay-per-views, I'd see John backstage. I never once saw him treat anybody with disrespect. Quite the opposite. That's just not what my experience. Well, listen, David Otunga has a YouTube channel that you should go check out if you want to hear his story. It's his story to tell. But I think a lot of that speaks to maybe the culture of WWB.

And that's kind of what I want to talk about with you a little bit here, Eric, because for a long time, and I know that wrestling has evolved and wrestling has changed. I mean, just earlier, we talked about how John Cena on this farewell tour wanted to work 220 dates, but that's not the WW model. They only needed him for 36. It's effectively a television company now. They're not really running house shows and neither's WW or AW. And I know that you were sort of down on that when you first got the reins of WCW. Like, hey, if we're losing money every time we go out, here's an idea. Why don't we stop doing the things that lose us money? And you were a business genius from then on. But that is, as there, as there,

you know, as we're dissecting the way wrestling used to be, wasn't it effectively like a traveling circus? Here's these guys, these group of superior male athletes who were operating on very little sleep and effectively abusing their body, taking these hard bumps in the ring every night, sleeping like shit, trying to eat on the road. And it does become this fraternity, this brotherhood is the way I've heard people talk about it before. And we hear guys who would tell stories about, you know, throwing beer bottles at the road signs as they went down the road. And I'm not saying that happens now, but certainly that was the way it was. I think that sort of culture lent itself to more of a college locker room, a high school

locker room, and find ways to entertain themselves. And that leads to some of the hazing or the busting balls. And I think that was once upon a time part of the culture. I don't know that it is as much now. Do you think that's because the schedule? has changed because the leadership has changed or because society has changed, Eric? I think the business has changed.

I think the business at the WWE level, particularly, has changed so much. It's all of the above. Certainly it's leadership. It's what's tolerated and what's not. What's expected and what's not expected. Um, and that can come in the form of written policy and contractual language, it can also come in the form of the culture. And it doesn't have to be in a contract or a policy. I think that has definitely changed. I think the athletes themselves have changed.

I think the video game culture makes it possible now. And I know this sounds, you know, silly, especially coming from a 70-year-old. But I think, you know, as negative is, you know, video game, you know, video game, the industry itself can be a controversial from time to time because of violence and all kinds of stuff. It gives talent something to do to occupy that time when they're away from their families, when they're away from the comforts of their own home. And that cannot be underestimated. People don't realize, we kind of realize because we hear so many stories about rock stars and, you know, the dark side of the entertainment industry in general. You know, look at the life of a stand-up comic. They're really sad stories most of the time, many of the times, because it's life on the road. You're disconnected from all of the things that provide you security and comfort.

So you've replaced those things with other things that kind of numb you or distract you from what you're really missing. And I think with video games now, it fills a void when you're stuck in airports. It gives you something to do to occupy your mind other than maybe, I don't know, I think I'll just go sit at the bar and watch some sports TV and pound a couple of bourbons before I catch my next flight. I know it sounds silly, but I think it's also to a degree true. The culture has changed both in terms of leadership and the corporate culture, but I also think the culture has changed among this newest generation, our newer generation, of athletes that are getting into the business. I think they're smarter. I think they realize that that lifestyle that everybody glamorized and likes to talk about the good old days is not a healthy lifestyle. I think we've seen a lot of examples of how it ends badly, and I think people are aware of that.

I noticed that when I first got to T&A in 2009. There's a different culture. AJ Styles and Frankie Kizarian and Daniels, you know, Frankie Kizarian and Daniels, and a group of people that they hung around. There was a group that went out and partied and hung out at the bars afterwards. The fans were there and it's fun and it's energy. It is fun.

A lot of wrestlers did that, but there was also a good segment of that roster that didn't. They got together at night, went up to the rooms, plagues of video games, ordered a pizza, and went to bed. Many of them were still working, Frankie Kizzerian, AJ Stiles. you know, so I think the corporate culture has changed. I think the society, the culture has changed.

And I think the demands of the business have changed because the talent is not on the road. They're not disconnected from those things as much as they were. All of that combined leads to, I think, a healthier environment for talent and the people associated with them. Well said, Eric, something else I know you and I agree on is Blue Chew. Fellas, you already know what time it is. is time to level up blue chew just dropped something crazy i'm talking next level championship belt gold plated energy blue chew gold is the newest innovation from the number one chewable ed brand this ain't your grandpa's little blue pill this is the four in one beast that's setting the gold standard for

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Get 10% off your first month of Blue Chew Gold with the code 83 weeks. That's promo code 83 weeks. bluechew.com for more details and important safety information. And we thank Bluchu for sponsoring today's podcast. So, Eric, as we're winding down, we're really home stretching here on the way to John Cena's last match. We've talked about it. We've teased it.

We've queued it up. We've got to get your final answer. We imagine he's going on last when the final curtain falls tomorrow night at Saturday night's main event. Well, John Cena ride off into the sunset victorious? or will Gunther stand tall? What say you? I'm betting on hustle, loyalty, and respect. Java stayed true to his own brand for so many years.

And with that in mind, I'm going to focus on the respect part of that brand. And I think he's going to do what he can to take Gunther to the next level, including putting him over. We also want to spend a minute here and talk about there's going to be a lot of people watching this. This could be an opportunity. to introduce a new story, a new wrinkle. I'm not trying to be critical of WWE creative,

but I'm saying this card is really loaded with a lot of next generation guys like OBFEMA against the WWE champ Cody Rhodes. Like I think Saul Ruka is going to be taken on Bailey. I know that the WWE tag champs are going to be defending their titles against some T&A talent. So they're really focusing on the next generation. Supposedly that was a suggestion. from John Sina, I'm all for that.

But it feels like if you know you're going to have a larger than normal audience, and it's going to be in all eyes on you situation, do you think they use this show to start a new big time story? Because I would hope that they're going to use these new eyeballs that are watching this to not only say farewell to John Sina, but hopefully try to set the hook on, boy, I can't wait to see what they're going to do next. And a lot of people are curious, does that? mean we may get a cameo from the rock.

May someone like Chris Jericho be reintroduced. We don't know if he's leaving AW. We don't know exactly when the contract's up, but is the timing right for a large story to start tomorrow night on this show, Eric?

Look, if they expect a larger than average rating, if there's going to be a lot of eyeballs on this show, then obviously like any other night that you would have you know, an unusually high or above average, you know, viewership expectation, you're probably going to want to take advantage of that.

So from that, just mathematically, logically, yeah, sure it does. But if I really had to sit down and analyze the opportunity myself in terms of what I would do, you know, how many of those viewers could I imagine are there only because they want to see John Sien's last match, which means they're not likely to come back no matter what I do. They're coming in to sample one night, one night only, so speak. There's going to be a small percentage of the overall number that represents. I don't know how big that percentage will be. Some of it is feel.

I don't know that I would necessarily because I wouldn't want anything to overshadow John's moment in the finish of that match. I would want that to be the most important thing that people remember. So if I do have a hot angle that I want to bust, do I want to bust it on a night that I don't want it to overshadow something or something that I've been building for months? That kind of doesn't make sense to me. I know there's an argument for it, but I think I would not do it. I think I would instead utilize this show and the new viewers, as you refer to them, those being the ones that only showed up for John Cena or, primarily because of it, I would rather use that audience to expose my next generation of talent.

Because perhaps they're going to see something there that they didn't expect. If they haven't been watching WWE for a while and have only showed up because they want to be a part of this historic wrestling moment, why not showcase your young stars? Why not do something hot there to possibly attract night only audience? convert them to weekly fans. There's been a discussion online, Eric. John Cina, I believe, did an interview where he said he thought he was going to close the show. And I think that's logical that people would think that he would close the show.

But some people would point to Brian Alvarez's report that he's heard that it will in fact open the show. So I want to talk about that here for a minute because you've programmed a lot of TV back in the day. I know that very recently they did the Goldberg last match back in July and his farewell speech was cut off for time. I think that was on NBC, not just Peacock. So there is a differentiator here. This will not be on NBC. It's strictly on Peacock. So that's part of it.

But the other part is if they have him open the show, maybe they do want to try to send fans home happy and they're concerned that if Cina loses in the first match that maybe they're, can overcome that with more positive outcomes or interesting storylines or whatever. Maybe they don't want to close on a downer of him perhaps losing. Does that change your opinion? And if you had the book, would you want John Cena out first or last? That's a two-part question. Yeah, I may have quote-to-quote in this scenario, the Paul Vett spot. But Paul has to talk to NBC.

They're going to have a voice. So if I was, if I had, you know what, I wouldn't, I wouldn't do that. I wouldn't, I wouldn't make an argument for putting John on first. That whole, what if could be perhaps conjecture. None of it felt like maybe it was right. It all felt clunky. I don't think it makes any sense. I don't know that it never really happened.

Now, I could be proven wrong. Hey, my percentage rate is high enough right now in my predictions that I can afford to think a hit or two and still be good. I just don't see it happening. It doesn't make any sense to me from any perspective. From a network person, even on Spock, from a streaming perspective, you spend all this time creating a destination, making, creating anticipation. People can't wait to get to the destination because they're going to be a part of something big. And we're going to give it to them in the first 20, 30 minutes and then send them all home. especially if John loses.

Nah, what sense does that make? Why not just have a John Cena match and call it a night? That makes no sense to me from a programming point of view or from a WWE perspective. I totally agree. I don't think it makes any sense. I think he closed with him. And I do think I might try to start a new storyline.

It's going to be interesting to see what happens in the coming weeks. You know, there's lots of time. before the Royal Rumble. You know, John Sina's last match is going to be on the 13th of December. And six weeks later is the Royal Rumble. So we've got a long time between PLEs, even though this isn't, I guess it's called a Saturday night's main event, but it certainly feels like a PLE.

And I guess they're bringing out a lot of the legends. There's been a report that even though he missed the most recent Saturday night's main event, Jesse the Body Ventura will be there on site for John Sina's last match. And if I'm honest with you, Eric, I'm kind of surprised that you're not. I thought given your history and early association with John Sain and him throwing you in the trash can and all that, they would have at least had you there for the wave. What do you expect as far as acknowledgement from John Sina's history and ruin? I mean, that's got to be the theme of the whole thing.

Were you invited? Was it ever discussed as far as you know? I don't know if it was ever discussed, but I never got the phone call. What's the date on that? Tomorrow? tomorrow it's a good oh yeah it's a good thing I didn't because I couldn't have made it but and I would have felt bad turning it down but I didn't get the opportunity to do that well we're going to get the opportunity to talk a little rasselin history next week here on

the program we're going to be running up on anniversaries where Vince McMahon back in 1997 decided to say to himself self I'm getting my ass kicked by Eric Bischoff maybe I need to change Monday night raw he cut a promo that I guess is been referred to since as a cure for the common show. That happened on this anniversary next week. We'll also be talking about Chris Jericho because way back in 2001 next week will be the anniversary of when he beat Stone Cold and the Rock in the very same night. There's lots of other things to discuss about this week in wrestling history next week.

Of course, we'll be talking about John Cena's last match, the fallout, and all the news that's fit to print. and we'll be on the go home streak for Real American Freestyle 04. As a reminder, it's happening next weekend, just outside of Indianapolis. You can pick up your tickets now at real American freestyle.com. And of course, you can watch like I'm going to watch on the Fox Nation app. Only a couple bucks a month and you get Real American Freestyle 1, 2, and 3 and 4 next weekend. We'll be live on the Fox Nation app.

Eric, any final words for John Sina and his illustrious career? Just match. no man just got speed don't get hurt enjoy every moment of it life's nothing but moments man and this is a special one and just try to hold on to every one of them well also give a little love i know eric and i are echoing the same sentiment here we are a three-man team here and have been for a long time on eighty three weeks dot com and today dave sylva our crack producer from day one was not with us unfortunately as we were set to record this morning he woke up to the news that his father passed away.

So I want to ask that everybody who enjoys our podcast or has gotten to know Silva through the years will lift him and his family up in some prayers. And I know it's got to be a challenging time. I can't imagine the pain and torment that they're going through as luck would have it. As we're recording today, we're recording a day earlier than we usually do because Silva had planned to take his family to visit his dad. And he missed it by one day and his dad's no longer with us. just a horrible sad story.

Can't imagine. I want to show some love to Wesley Burleson for stepping up and trying to make us sound and look as good as we can on short notice. But Silva's such an invaluable team member really from day one and getting the news that you've lost your dad. Right here in the holidays, it just keeps on getting worse. My heart goes out to the Silvas.

Bishop, you got anything you want to share there? No, no, same feelings. You know, this entire family were in my purse as soon as I heard the news. and encourage others to do the same because the comfort that comes with it really helps. If you see him on social,

show him some love, think about him and his family right now, and we'll endeavor to persevere. We're going to enjoy John Cena's last match tomorrow night, and we'll be back next week right here on 83 weeks with Eric Bischoff. Thank you, Wesley.