83 Weeks with Eric Bischoff - Episode 405: Does Gunther Have Good Heat or Bad Heat?

Episode Date: December 19, 2025

On this episode of 83 Weeks, Eric and Conrad break down John Cena's final match and the fan backlash that followed. Did Eric feel the criticism was justified, or was it completely blown out of proportion? Eric also weighs in on Gunther's standing in the WWE Universe after his win over Cena and what kind of real HEAT Gunther is feeling right now. Plus, the guys take a trip back through the month of December in WCW history, revisiting key moments from the company's past. And to round things out, Raj Giri joins the show to discuss Mick Foley's departure from WWE. It's a loaded edition of 83 Weeks you won't want to miss. STEVEN SINGER JEWELERS - No one does real diamond jewelry better. Experience the difference at Steven Singer Jewelers. Go online to http://IHateStevenSinger.com  today! Always fast and FREE shipping is waiting for you. ROCKET MONEY - Cancel your unwanted subscriptions and reach your financial goals faster with Rocket Money. Go to http://RocketMoney.com/83WEEKS  RIDGE - Upgrade your wallet today! Get 10% Off @Ridge with code 83WEEKS at https://www.Ridge.com/83WEEKS ! #Ridgepod BUTCHER BOX - Get free turkey or ham in their first box, or choose ground beef for life - PLUS $20 off your first order. Go to http://ButcherBox.com/83WEEKS  to choose your offer and get this limited-time deal, with free shipping always. CASH APP - Download Cash App Today: https://capl.onelink.me/vFut/j5ojws30  #CashAppPod As a Cash App partner, I may earn a commission when you sign up for a Cash App account. Cash App is a financial services platform, not a bank. Banking services provided by Cash App's bank partner(s). Prepaid debit cards issued by Sutton Bank, Member FDIC. See terms and conditions at https://cash.app/legal/us/en-us/card-agreement. Direct Deposit, Overdraft Coverage and Discounts provided by Cash App, a Block, Inc. brand. Visit http://cash.app/legal/podcast for full disclosures. JCW LUNACY - Juggalo Championship Wrestling drops BRAND NEW episodes of Lunacy every Thursday at 7pm ET exclusively on their YouTube channel http://youtube.com/@psychopathic_records check it out! PRIZE PICKS - Visit https://prizepicks.onelink.me/LME0/83WEEKS  and use code 83WEEKS to get $50 in lineups after you pay your first $5 lineup! SAVE WITH CONRAD - Stop throwing money away by paying those high interest rates on your credit card. Roll them into one low monthly payment and on top of that, skip your next two house payments. Go to https://www.savewithconrad.com  to learn more.

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Make it happen today at savewithconrad.com. Hey, of a lesson number 212, non-equal housing lender. It's Conrad, the mortgage guy, and you're listening to 83 weeks with Eric Fishoff. Eric, what's going on, man? How are you? I'm doing great. I'm in beautiful downtown. Well, maybe beautiful when the weather is nice, but I'm in downtown to Indianapolis,

getting ready for Real American Freestyle 04 from Fisher's Arena. It's going to be a fun night. Saturday night exclusively on Fox Nation. I'm pretty excited about it. You know, I have enjoyed Real American Freestyle. I want to challenge all of our listeners. If you haven't checked it out, go check it out. It's a couple bucks a month to join Fox Nation.

And you can watch anywhere. And I've had a blast watching ROF, R-A-F, 0-1, 0-2,03, and now it's 0-4. Eric, you guys are doing these like a breakneck pace. Does it feel like there's just three or four weeks between them here? Well, yeah, that's what we've got three weeks, which, you know, is real challenging. When, you know, you put tickets on sale and you've only got three weeks, of on sale dates and you've got a lot of pre-production to do during that period of time. And of course, 05 is three weeks from now.

But we've got a week of Christmas in there. So it makes it even more challenging. But, you know, we're having fun. We're learning a lot as we go. We're growing our audience. More and more athletes from around the world are reaching out to us. I got some news just an hour or so ago about some of the biggest names in the world in free sale is going to be joining us soon.

And so just a lot of great stuff going on. I think what a lot of people are really excited about this weekend, that's this Saturday night. You can get tickets right now if you're in the Indianapolis area at real American freestyle.com. And of course, the Fox Nation app means you can watch anywhere. That's what I'm going to be doing. But Wyatt Hendrickson,

who certainly became a megastar earlier this year, winning the NCAA championship with the freaking sitting president there to congratulate him, he won the heavyweight championship at the very first real American freestyle and he's defending it this weekend tell everybody what makes Wyatt Hendrickson so special because I'm looking forward to this one erie yeah it was such a fascinating journey real American freestyle I won of course you know white Hendrickson was our big draw we promoted the heck out of them found out shortly before like the night before that through the various approval channels that exists in the pentagon because Wyatt is isn't a military certain approvals hadn't been, we haven't gotten certain approvals that were required, some of which we weren't aware of. Long story short, Mason was able to perform, or excuse me, why it was able to perform at the last minute. But when we thought that we weren't going to be able to use them because of Pentagon issues, we reached out to, I should say, Chad and Izzy, Chad Bronson, Izzy Marcheas, my partner reached out to Mason Paris. He jumped in his car, said absolutely short notice. I'll be there.

Of course, Wyatt was able to figure out his issues and ultimately wrestled. But, you know, Mason Paris was on hand. And, you know, we kind of felt obligated to get him in the mix right away. And we did. And he's put on a hell of a show. Definitely, number one contender. And he's going to be getting his match with Wyatt tonight. It's going to be an exciting matchup.

No doubt about it. I don't know who's favored. To be honest with you, in terms of odds. I haven't checked that out. But if Mason Paris is the underdog, and I suspect he probably is, according to betting lines, I'm going to take that underdog status because Mason Paris is one tough dude,

not taking anything away from Wyatt. He's a freak physically, athletically. He's one of the fastest big men I've seen in a long time. But Mason Paris is tough, and he's coming for it. I'm excited to see that one. I'm also excited to see a little MMA action. Of course, we've got a former UFC legend. Romero is going to be in there against Pat Downey.

This is for the light heavyweight interim championship. And I know that, you know, I go to this every, every time we're talking about Real American Freestyle, but I'm a longtime UFC fan. So it is kind of cool to see guys who maybe aren't competing in the UFC on a regular basis anymore, but still have that itch to compete. Real American freestyle is a home for a lot of those stars these days, isn't it? Well, they're coming to us, you know, Bo Nicol, who was scheduled to be on this card.

He, I'm not sure it was an illness, family illness, or an injury. Either way, unable to compete on this card. Of course, he's going to be joining us in January at Real American 05. And just coming off a big win in the UFC with a head kick. That's like, I can't wait to ask him about that. But, yeah, Bo Nickel, current UFC star, Kobe Covington is going to be with us in Miami as well. And you mentioned Uel Romero, I just met Yuel just a couple hours ago. What a presence.

What an aura. This guy is the real deal. And Pat Downey, man, my hat's off to Pat Downey. Pat Downey's been on a bit of a role here at Real American Freestyle. He's got some momentum going. He wants a shot at that light heavyweight title. And this match is going to give him that opportunity. But Pat is risking a little.

lot because you all romero is probably regarded as one of the toughest human beings in the sport right now uh just physically tough very dangerous you know he's 47 48 years old but when you meet him you forget all about that that is going to be an exciting match my heart is with downy my logic is with you all romero but we're about to find out we're also going to find out what's going on with the ladies the middleweight championship is going to be on the This is somebody you've been excited about since before Real American Freestyle even started. When you first started your journey, but before the world had seen her on the RAF stands, Kennedy Blades is going to be a megastar, or at least that's in the plans.

Can she be successful this weekend, do you think, here? It's going to be interesting because a lara boy who is her opponent is someone that Kennedy is very familiar with. and Lars, hometown girl. She's going to have a lot of support behind her. Of course, Chicago's not that far away, so Kennedy will as well. It's going to be a lot of fan support behind this match. It's going to be interesting indeed. I just fell in love with Kennedy Blades.

I know the internet's going to take that crazy. But as a human being, I was so impressed with her as just a person. She's so well-rounded. She has so much poise. And she's just lethal. on the ring. I mean, you meet this woman, young, very young woman. She's 22 years old. And she's just the nicest, sweetest, happiest person. She just exudes joy. But one of the things that makes her most joyful is spiking their opponents on their head with a belly to back

suplex. That's what she's known for. And she does it with such beauty and grace that, you know, it just makes you, she's amazing. She's an amazing athlete and an amazing person, but Alarra Boyd is tough. Alar's got a lot to prove. And she's coming in with a chip on our shoulder. She's going to be a hometown favorite. So this could get interesting.

You mentioned the hometown girl. I don't think we necessarily hit on that. But Mason Paris is the hometown boy. So Wyatt Hendrickson, while he was on the national stage and he got a lot of buzz and a lot of PR with his successful victory and championship win in RAF and of course earlier this year winning the NCAA title with President Trump there. Let me just rattle off.

Not only is Mason Paris from Indiana, but he himself won the NCAA championship in 2023. He's a two-time NCAA finalist. He's a three-time Big Ten finalist. He's a one-time Big Ten champion. He's a world champion in 2019. He got the gold in Pan Am games. He won the Pan Am championship gold.

He's won the senior world bronze medalists. He's a three-times Grand Prix champion. You talk about accolades. This guy's got them. This is going to be a hostile environment for Wyatt Hendricksson, I think. It's going to be hostile. It's going to be tough. Mason is tough as nails.

So he's not going to be backing up. He's not going to be backing up. It's going to be a really exciting match. Hope everybody checks it out. Real American Freestyle.com is where you can grab your tickets or you can just do what I'm doing and check it out on the Fox Nation app. Just a few bucks and you'll be in business. You can check out Real American FreeStytyty.

style one, two, three. And now this weekend is for, it's like an early Christmas present. If you like competing and you like amateur wrestling and I mean, I think this is the derivative, certainly, of mixed martial arts. I feel like most of the time when you have mixed martial arts, it's like a boxing was established before and karate was established, kind of. But you guys giving a platform like this to amateur wrestling,

I think everyone has, who's fallen in love with MMA and UFC, Maybe at first they thought, hey, it's all about Brazilian jiu-jitsu. And maybe it got a little exciting when people started to do knockouts. But if you take a look back at the legacy of the UFC, the guys who do the best, the longest, are the folks who have this amateur wrestling background. And we wrestling fans, we know how dangerous and badass guys like Kurt Engel and Brock Lesnar can be. I'm really excited about what you guys are doing. I hope fans will check it out.

I mean, it's just a few bucks. I think it's probably the best investment in sports entertainment these days. not to say it's sports entertainment. This is shoot wrestling, folks. Go check it out. Real American Freestyle.com. Eric, we got to talk about sports entertainment, though. I don't know if you had a chance to see,

but this past Saturday night, Michael Cole had a call at the end of John Cena's last match, where as Goentheer wins with a rear naked choke and a tap out, Michael Cole announced that tonight, professional wrestling destroyed sports entertainment. John Sina has wrestled his last match. And boy, the fans in the building were not happy at all. The IWC took to their keyboards.

They were fired up. Not just the fans either. Guys like Jeff Jarrett called it the dumbest finish in the history of professional wrestling or something like that. I mean, he was really, really strong against it. I tweeted immediately that I liked it. It kind of reminded me a little bit of the way I felt after the Undertaker streak ended. It was just like a hushed silence. Were you surprised that Gunther got the win, Eric?

No, I predicted it. If you recall, we talked about it the week or maybe even two weeks before, and I think my comment was something close to. If I had to bet, I bet that John Cena will stay on brand. And I talked extensively about hustle, loyalty, and respect. And the respect in my opinion. And I'm like you, Conrad, I completely saw the value in the finish. And I understood the finish.

And I was extremely impressed with the finish of that match because it achieved exactly what any good head of creative would want to achieve. If you look at the crowd reaction and WWE does such a great job, especially in your post-production, of allowing you to see how people reacted in real time to that finish, go back and look at some of those crowd reactions and go back to 1996. I'm not comparing the finishes saying one was better than the other. I'm not doing that, folks. Pull your head out of your ass.

Give me a different way to look at this stuff. But if you go back and you look at the crowd reactions to Hogan Turning Heel and you go back and look at the crowd reactions to Gunther putting Jan Sina to sleep, the reactions were very similar. it was stunned, disappointment, shock. It was awkward at very first, much like it was with Hogan. If you go back and look at the crowd reactions and compare them, you'll see what I mean. And for me, what I think John did for Gunther and in Polovac is put Gunther in a position where if,

and this is still an if at this point, if Gunther can hold them. that heat. And the audience resents Gunther for taking that moment that they all wanted. And that's the psychology that I don't think Jeff Jared is getting. Jeff Garrett came up in a weekly territory and I know the old trope, send everybody home happy. Yeah, that's normally what you want to do. That's the typical formula, especially for what used to be pay-per-views and what are now PLEs in WWE, you send the crowd home happy. Unless you want the heel to get all the heat, and then you set up a scenario where that heel is taking what everybody thought they were going to get.

Everybody that bought a ticket, everybody that was watching on television, I shouldn't say everybody, but most people who bought a ticket and were watching on television, we're hoping they were going to see that final moment where John Cena gets his final win and overcomes all odds, but yet hits his hand raised in victory because, well, that's the formula. And we want to send everybody home happy, unless we want to send them home pissed off at Gunther. And that's what I think we're going to get. Now, the reaction to Gunther on Monday was predictable, and it was solid, definitely carried some heat. We saw some of the reactions of Gunther leaving the building, some of the reactions immediately following the wind.

if Gunther can hold onto that heat, and the audience then begins to hold him responsible for taking away that moment that they all came to see, Gunther's going to be one of the hottest heels of the business. Paul LeVec will go down as a genius, and everybody will look at this much differently than they looked at it that night, including Jeff Jarrett, by the way. Well, there was a lot of heat that night,

and I'll tell you what, there's a lot of heat with other jewelers and Stephen Singer, I hate Steven Singer.com is what everybody's talking about, especially since Christmas is next week. And if you haven't yet, go see our man, Steven Singer. You know him, the I hate Stephen Singer guy. He's got the number one gift for Christmas. We're talking real natural diamond stud earrings. Everybody knows that golden diamond prices are at the highest prices in history, but lucky for you, somehow Stephen has locked in his diamond studs at the old prices. His Anita Diamond studs still just start at $298. All the same perfect prices last year, same incredible value. There's no better time to get a pair of diamond studs from Steven Singer

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It's fast and free shipping. This is a no-brainer. It's an easy gift. Experience the difference at Steven Singer Jewelers online at IHat StevenSinger.com. That's I hate StevenSinger.com. Eric, the John Sina match and the Gunther match has been the talk of the internet. And it's interesting the way Gunther has responded to some of the criticisms.

We'll talk about the criticisms from a Triple Age standpoint and all that. But I don't know that Gunther could have carried it and handled it any better. He did some interviews this week where he was basically saying, hey, that never give up stuff. If you thought that would last forever, grow up. things change get over it move on that's i love that as a heel response and i also like that he wanted to point out it's interesting this second half of this johnsina retirement tour he's getting reactions like we've never seen before because for the last 10 or 15 years he's been the most booed

guy on the card and now all of a sudden all that's forgotten and now he's beloved i think he's pointing out the hypocrisy of some fans who love to boo him and now they love to cheer him. I think Gunther is handling this as good as you possibly could from a bad guy perspective, don't you think? I do. I saw an interview and I made note of it on X yesterday, I believe. In fact, I think I tagged 83 weeks.com hoping that we'd bring it up. I saw an interview that Gunther did, not a WWE interview, but a third-party interview.

And I was so impressed with the. way he handled it. He stayed in character, but in a real, an authentic way. I don't know. Maybe it's, you know, I'm a glass half full person by nature, to be honest with you. I always look at the bright side of almost any situation first. And I'm looking at what Gunther's doing now. the way, even the way he handled that interview to me just told me, this guy's ready. He understands it. He understands his role. He's quite comfortable being a heel. It comes very natural for him. It's not forced. It's all organic. And if he can sustain what I've seen over the last four, five, six days in terms of keeping that heat, he's going to be red hot.

And I'll be honest, when I first started seeing Gunther showing up, I was kind of like, yeah, don't get it. You know, got a very unique look, obviously. Looks like he's out of central casting for some kind of, you know, ultimate heel in a feature film. But, man, there's something about his aura and the way he carries himself that makes him really special. I can't wait to see what they do next with Gunther. you know, there's some criticism online, especially immediately afterwards, that Goonther is maybe not believable, which I thought was interesting because, but people are saying, oh, he just tapped out to a tag team wrestler.

That's the way the haters are categorizing Jay Uso. I would remind those folks. Jay Uso has been one of the biggest merch sellers in wrestling the last several years. So I don't know if it's necessarily fair to say he's a tag team wrestler because on some level isn't everyone a tag team wrestler, Sean Michaels, Brett Hart, all of those guys for tag team wrestlers.

What are we talking about? But we did see this guy, Goanther I'm talking about, retire Goldberg. He had Goldberg in his last match and he beat him. And he retired John Sina and he beat him. And as he's leaving Monday Night Raw, after just devastatingly white hot heat,

he bumps into AJ Styles, who's announced that he's wrapping up next year. And we've heard it was a, a dream match for fans for years and allegedly it was even going to happen last year. Brock Lesnar and Gunther at WrestleMania, but John Cena in an interview this past week said Brock's finishing up in Minnesota. A lot of people are thinking, wait, is that SummerSlam next year? Do you think he could be talking about Gunther? The new legend killer 2.0 is that, is that the direction this is heading?

I mean, it could, right? It makes sense on paper. It would be fun to talk about it in a, in a writer's room. I'm not sure business-wise how that would work out, what Brock's plans would be for such an event, but certainly has the potential of being that, particularly with AJ on Horizon and they're building, Gunther, obviously. It could very well be part of the discussions or possibly a plan.

We'll see what happens with Gunther. I also want to get your feedback on, And, you know, like guys like Jeff Jarrett, they've said that Triple H and and, and Goonther maybe didn't, the heat didn't go where it was supposed to. At least from Jeff's perspective, he feels like that this decision to have Goonther win and John seen to tap out with a smile on his face was ref heat. And he says nobody makes money with ref heat. So you had an all time record gate for an arena show for WWB. an all-time record for that arena for any event ever. By the way, this is the same venue that Starcade 97 happened in.

This is the same venue where AEW had their first TV show. So it's a pretty famous wrestling building now, a lot of wrestling history there. But fans who paid record prices were unhappy. And they were so unhappy that they chanted at, they booed the shit out of Triple H. And then chanted, you know, F, Triple H and U.S. and you effed up and then later at the post show, AEW. Some people would say this is the wrong kind of heat. I would challenge those people.

Watch Gunther's reaction on Monday Night Raw. The crowd was all over him. It clearly worked. But is that possible? Can you have the wrong kind of heat in 2025 or 2026, Eric? Of course you can. You know, it's like the wrong, you know, I wrote a book. Controversy creates cash.

And it can. And it does. And it is as we speak. But it also creates. a lot of other things that aren't quite as positive. It's got to be the right kind of heat. It's going to be the right kind of controversy. And I think that's what we're debating here, right?

Is was the heat as a result of that match, was the heat sufficient enough and will it stick? As I pointed out, will it stick to Gunther? Or is it faded too much towards Triple H? Is he splitting the heat? And, you know, I don't know about the ref part of it, but I get the point that I think Jeff was making there. And I don't disagree with the general observation, but I think specifically in this case, number one, not to cop out, time is going to tell. And we're going to know shortly whether Gunther can fade that, or excuse me, can carry that heat.

And it will stick with him or if it's diluted. because of the reaction from the internet wrestling community and the online wrestling experts that are analyzing this, as well as people like Jeff, who has a very strong opinion based on his experience, which is substantial, by the way. He's been in the business far longer than I have,

and I've been in the business, I was in the business for about 33, 34 years. And I get the, again, I understand it. I just disagree with it. I think that the, The heat was the right kind of heat as evidenced by the crowd reaction, not the internet wrestling community action, or even the loudest part of a post-show audience, which are going to be your internet, essentially, your internet type wrestling fans, people who are far more than just casual

viewers. They're going to want to be part of the shop. They're going to want to make some noise. They're going to want to be able to go home and tell their friends that they were part of that crowd that was changing A E, D, because now we're getting some attention, and that's what we like on the internet. We love that attention. But does that represent the other 90% of the viewing audience?

I don't think it does. I think that reaction and the people that are second-guessing it and describing the heat is the wrong kind of heat or the heat's really uncreative or the ref or whatever. Okay, we'll find out. I think we found out Monday, but let's put a little more pressure on it and give it a month or two. And let's see how much heat gunther has. If he's got the heat, if he's carrying that heat, it's not diluted. Jeff's steak and a lot of other people's steak was wrong.

If we see it another month or so, six weeks, I don't think it's going to take that long, to be honest with you. But let's just, you know, be generous and say six weeks. he doesn't have half the heat that he had this past Monday night, then Jeff and people that think like Jeff are right, and we'll find out. We will find out. We want to know from you guys. Let us know in the comments below. What did you think of the finish?

Would you have had John Cena win? Would you have had Gunther win? Do you think it was the wrong kind of heat? We're interested to hear what you guys think. Let us know below in the comments here on YouTube at 83 weeks.com. Eric, a lot of people are curious, you know, where does Gunther go from here? We know he's going to be a monster heel. He's got a ton of heat.

Is this a guy you immediately make a challenger for the world title? Do you pair him with another up-and-coming baby face that you're trying to help establish and you put them in some sort of feud? I know this is armchair quarterbacking. You don't really like fantasy booking. But when you have somebody who's got this level of white hot heat, does it necessitate that he goes right to the main event in the world title picture or is that not necessary just yet? No, I would go the other way.

I would be very patient about putting him into big stakes matches. I would just do whatever. I would focusing on putting more and more heat out of them. In some cases, less is more. And you because you want to build the anticipation. If there's going right from, you know, John Cena, you know, pretty big freaking moment, right? and then it goes into another big moment, you know, a month later, you've already given the audience time to forget about the heat that you got with John.

I'd let that heat build, and I'd look for ways to continue to build it. I would personally, I would wait until you almost felt like the audience who was demanding he wrestles somebody and then put him into a more serious high-stakes match, whether that be with a baby face that you want to take, to the next level or somebody that's maybe just the right guy to beat with heat. Either way, I would take my time. I wouldn't jump right into it. Well, what would you guys do?

I got to be honest. I think I might want to look at him challenging for some sort of title. It does feel like you could move in that direction if you wanted to. And you could certainly position him to be an absolute monster against a John Sina or against a CM Punk when the time was right. But it is going to be interesting how WWE looks at this in 2026, Eric. A lot of people, you know, think that and I'm included in that, that John Sina and his story and his merch and the attraction of seeing him one last time in your market and that

sort of thing has probably helped prop up a little bit of WWE's business this year. And we know that Brock Lesnar, according to John Sina, is looking to wind it down. AJ Styles has announced that this is going to be his last year wrestling. And there's rumor and innuendo that guys like Chris Jericho may be coming in and thinking about winding down their career, maybe eyeing a Hall of Fame. Do you think that this nostalgia farewell tour theme could continue through 2026? I hope it does. I hope it does.

I mean, it it galvanizes the audience. It attracts perhaps some of the audience that over the last couple of, of years, whether it's because, you know, you reach certain ages as a wrestling fan. You know, I don't know if we've talked about this before, but I was for myself, obviously when I was, you know, 8, 10, 12 years old watching it home with, you know, my little brother, my grandmother, you know, as a wrestling fan, I watched for quite quite a bit all the way up until I was like 14, 50. Then I got a driver's license. And then girls started taking up more of my bandwidth, or at least attempting to meet girls took up more of my bandwidth and other things.

And, you know, I kind of got away from wrestling. And then I got back to it again, you know, in my mid-20s, late 20s. And I think there's a general pattern that wrestling fans follow that is probably somewhat close to that because I think I'm pretty average as a wrestling fan goes. But, you know, wherever you were in that range, undoubtedly there's a lot of large segment of that audience that just doesn't watch as much as they used to. Maybe they drop in occasionally once a month or something where they had been, you know,

weekly viewers, avid weekly viewers. But a guy like Brock Lesnar or the John Cena tour or something along those lines brings back some of that audience and gives them an opportunity to resample the product, get a look at some of the new stars perhaps that they hadn't seen. So I think there's a lot of tactical value in bringing in certain people at certain times. But the overall strategy, I think, is one that, you know, it's leveraging legacy. It's leveraging history. And wrestling fans are loyal.

And they respond to that type of thing. Obviously, we're doing this show called 83 weeks. We've been doing it for seven years. It's like 350 some odd weeks. What the heck? I thought we'd run out of stuff to talk about at 83. I was concerned about what do we do on 84th week. And it's because nostalgia works.

And this is kind of one way to take into that without overwhelming or overshadowing the rest of the show. Hey, real quick, I want to run something past you. Do you ever feel like your money just disappears each month? It's easier than ever to overspend from subscriptions piling up to impulse buys after seeing an ad on your phone to ordering takeout a few times a month. But rocket money helps you rein in by showing you. where all of your money is going and then helping you make better decisions so you can keep more money in your pocket. Rocket Money is a personal finance app that helps find and cancel your unwanted subscriptions, monitors your spending, and helps you lower your bills so you can

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There are 10 million members save up to $740 a year when they use all the app's premium features. So what are you waiting for? Go cancel your unwanted subscriptions and reach your financial goals faster with Rocket Money. Go right now to rocketmoney.com slash 83 weeks today. That's rocketmoney.com slash 83 weeks. One more time, rocketmoney.com slash 83 weeks. Eric, we're going to see what happens in 2026. Maybe there's some retirement tours for AJ or Brock Lesner or Chris Jericho, but something that we're never going to tire of, as you said, is the nostalgia of talking

about professional wrestling. And I do want to talk about a pretty major anniversary today. I don't even know that you know this. We haven't talked about this before right now, but it just occurred to me as I look at the calendar and I realize we're recording on December 18th. Hey, wait a minute. On this very day, 30 years ago,

didn't a certain someone make their WCW debut and throw the WWF world title in a trash can? Indeed they did. Medusa threw the women's World Championship in the trash can on this day, 30 years ago. Boy, that makes me feel super old. But Eric, you were there. Unfortunately, as you see, you know, Mongo on the left, he's no longer with us.

Bobby the brain Heenan on the right. He's no longer with us. You and Medusa and the belt are still here. It's hard to imagine that that was 30 years ago. Does it feel like it was 30 years ago to you? No, no. And I want to go on a record saying, And, you know, I go back and forth, Medusa sometimes on social media because she's, she's pretty quick.

That was the best idea Medusa has ever had. She really, she hit her creative peak. But she came to me with that idea because, you know, I wouldn't have never thought of that. And it hadn't occurred to me. I would have never put her in that position. But, man, she's, I guess, according to her, sitting on a toilet, looking at that belt in the corner of the bathroom. and light bulb must have went off in her head and she threw it out there and I was like, hell yeah, I'll do that.

So hats off to you, Medusa. Best idea you've ever had. To this day, she still does appearances and all of her publicity photos are with that title. It's one of the more iconic moments in Nitro history. And it did add a lot to the what you were looking for, the unpredictability. You've talked a lot about Sarsa and one of the biggest things that wrestling fans look for. like J.R. would say, hey, wrestling fans want new. And you really drilled down and got very specific. And I think through your studies and research with the focus groups, it was revealed that what wrestling fans really want are surprises.

And to see someone show up that you didn't expect. And this is 1995. So this is six months before Scott Hall's coming down the steps. That was a big moment. Now, we're not forgetting that Lex Lugar had already jumped ship a few months earlier. but now there's another wrinkle. Wait a minute. That is a title holder. She has a WWF title on WCW programming. And the last time we saw something like that was like four years prior to that when Rick Flair showed up on WWF TV with the Big Gold Belt.

So I think this is maybe the first time that it happened on WCW programming where we saw a WWF title on the program. And I know that Medusa would classify, as the first shot across the bow. And I think at times maybe people have debated, was it that or was it Lex Lugar? In your opinion, what was the first shot across the bow? Was it Lex?

Well, it was going head to head. I mean, when you walk up to somebody and take their lunch money, that's pretty much it. Right. And, you know, Monday night was Vince's lunch money. And we walked in and took it. And that was the first shot. I think Lex Lugar was the second shot.

Giving away their finishes was the third shot. I think Medusa dropping the belt. Now, I'm going to say it was the fourth shot. That doesn't mean it wasn't one of the more significant shots in that list, but we're talking about chronologically. Because each of these happened in a relatively short period of time between, you know what I mean? So it was just one big thing.

I mean, just going head-to-head was pretty big, right? Arguably the very first shot. But just the way we approached it once we went head-to-head. Like I said, giving away their finishes, Lex Lugar, Medusa, throwing that belt, because that's a very graphic. You know, people forget. A lot of people that I do business with forget. Sometimes, excuse me, I'm going to clear my throat rear.

You don't have to listen to that. But people sometimes forget talking about something on television and seeing something on television are two different things. They're similar in some respects. And when you combine the seeing and the hearing and experiencing, you know, it can be magic. But one of the things that I think made the Medusa moment so big in comparison to some of the others

was that it was the first time we had that tangible we took their trophy we stole their horse whatever took their bike whatever metaphor you kind of want to come up with and dismissed it as garbage

that was a pretty big statement pretty big statement but I'm sure Medusa feels like it was the first shot but it was probably number four or five, but no less significant compared to the others. With the benefit of hindsight, I'm putting you on the spot here, it does feel like the women's division was kind of an afterthought for WCW.

You know, when, when Medusa comes over, and certainly she was, I don't think it's even arguable, the best female wrestler or certainly had the most name recognition in the United States. But there was a really strong contingent of fantastic female wrestlers in Japan, but they weren't established stars here in America. We didn't have, you know, the deep roster that we have in American women's wrestling today. Was that a misstep? Was it too much too soon? When I say misstep, I mean, A, signing Medusa, if you didn't really have the full division and thinking you could do it. And what was the motivation? to sign Medusa. Not to say that she doesn't have value, but if you're not ready to set her up

for success, because it did feel like she had a series of matches, but it was oftentimes with the same opponent over and over and over because there just wasn't a lot of talent out there. Was it more about, hey, this is another WWF signing that could get some buzz? Or was there more thought to that? And then we just couldn't deliver. What went wrong with the women's division in WCW? It's a really good question. It's actually a couple different questions all world into one, but it all part of the same story or same answer. Let's break it down. The first part of it, the easiest part of it, is why hire her if I didn't have a woman's

division? It's a valid question. The honest answer is I didn't need her. I had no immediate plans for a woman's division, but this was someone that I knew. that I liked, that I had worked with, that I believed in as a performer, and I was in a position to help a friend at the same time. And not just give her a check because I wasn't that good of friends with her, but I felt comfortable signing her,

knowing that where I was going, particularly in regard to my relationship in New Japan, that eventually I will get to that woman's division, at least to the extent that having Medusa as our champion created a return on the investment. And I believed it would and could. So I hired her, well, mostly because she was a friend and she called an aunt. And it was an easy hire for me to make because I knew she had talent and I had worked with her before. And I knew exactly what I was getting. And I knew exactly how I could benefit with her skill set and where she was in the business at that point in time.

And I was willing to take a risk that she might, you know, not have a lot to do for a while until I could establish a more regular type of woman's division. Now, here's the problem with the women's division and why it took a while. Never really came off the ground the way I wanted it to. The visa issue, and first of all, those would not even get to the visas yet. Scheduling. These women were on a regular schedule in Japan as well. So if New Japan was sending some of their top women over to the United States for me to use over the course of three or four weeks, because we weren't going to fly them back and forth, that would be,

absolutely insane. So that means that that talent would have to come to the United States, stay for an extended period of time, whether that's three weeks or two months. In some cases, it was. That creates a visa issue. That creates a where do they live when they get here issue. So, and more importantly, how does New Japan do with the fact that, you know, some of their top stars are going to be gone for a month or whatever? So that's what we're going to. That's why it took time and was more complicated than just, well, just, you know, book some Japanese talent. Okay.

And six months after you figure out how to make it all work, you can start bringing them over on a limited basis. And I think that's where we're at with Medusa. Well, we want to hear from you guys. You know, what would you have done with Medusa in WCW? I mean, certainly she's got some name value. She's got a lot of TV equity built into her in the WWF. she's also the women's world champion over there.

I think maybe it was probably a calculated risk even just for that moment. I enjoyed Medusa's matches in WCW. I just know that WCW was going to face ultimately the same problem that Vince faced. It just wasn't enough talent. That's not an issue these days. In fact, there may be too much women's talent. We're going to talk about the current women's wrestling issue of the week here momentarily. but first, I want to brag about our friends over at Ridge.

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that really created some chaos in NXT. And I want to talk about your experience. with this because allegedly, as the reports are coming in, we're hearing that NXT had pre-taped a lot of stuff and put some stuff in the can because we all know next week is Christmas and the week after that is New Year's. So this is a new wrestling business. People aren't working on Christmas night anymore. They're not working four shots a week.

They're able to take time off the road and go home and enjoy and spend time with their family. And that's a very recent change, like just since the pandemic. I for one think it's great. but it does present unique challenges when things don't go according to plan. Because things were recorded that are going to air later that now maybe won't line up with exactly what happened live this past Tuesday night. We saw the former Mariah May. These days we know her in NXT is Blake Monroe and she lost her NXT North American championship to Thea Hale.

A 22 year old upstart, she's got four years down at NXT, but very young and probably. not the original winner for this thing. We're hearing that this was not the planned finish. Bully Ray went on busted open and suggested that perhaps what happened is Hale gave almost like a Sintan splash. He called it like a Darby Allen coffin drop and it knocked the wind out of Blake Monroe. Either way, the ref counts one, two, there's no kickout, three, and then the kickout. But at that point, everyone's confused and the ref has to point, no, we have a new NXT women's champion, North American champion, but still, that was not the original plan.

I wanted to see, A, did you see or hear about this? B, what do you think is the right protocol? Some people say the ref has to call it. Other people are saying, oh, if he knew that wasn't the finish, he should have called an audible, put the heat on the ref. And most importantly, I want to know, did something like this ever happen in WCW? when you guys were filming weeks in advance down in Orlando, it feels like this had to happen, right?

I'll start up the last question. Yeah, it happened. It happened a lot when we first started shooting down at Disney MGM because prior to the Disney MGM shootings, a typical WCW schedule, if I could even remember it anymore, is usually on Monday and Tuesday, those were usually we're going to Anderson, Indiana, we're going to Huntsville, we're going to some drive distance from Atlanta, and we're producing our syndicated shows.

The Turner shows, TBS on Saturday night and Sunday night at the main event, we shot those at center stage, and we were alternating weeks because we'd shoot live tape, right? We'd stack shows. that was pretty easy to manage creatively. It was very easy to manage. But once we went down to Disney, we were no longer doing the syndicated shows on the road. So that Monday night, Tuesday, taping, whatever it was,

which was typically our syndicated shows, we were no longer doing those every two weeks or even once a month. We were going down to Disney and doing two or three months of them at a time. So, yeah, a million things can happen over the course of two or three months. It wasn't like we didn't see that challenge going in. In fact, that was probably one of the reasons why so many people resisted it. Wrestling people resisted it. I'm thinking about people like, you know, the agents and everybody that came from a wrestling background,

but we're now working in the offices at Turner at that time, the only Andersons of the world. They just couldn't wrap their head around it and get comfortable with it. And understandably so. But we were at a position like, well, we've got to figure it out. And eventually we got somewhat decent at figuring it out. But it happens when you're taping that far to advance. So yes, it happened more than I care to remember.

In terms of, was it the right call? Anytime I have ever heard any conversation that I've just overheard whether I was at ringside walking through my segment or a part of somebody else's or rehearsing something or just hanging out sometimes early in the day. Whenever I would overhear any conversation that had to do with this subject, what do you do? The only thing I ever heard from other agents and people above my pay grade was that it's up to the talent at that point. the ref has got to call what the ref sees. It's a horrible situation. Either way, I don't know what happened.

I didn't see it. I obviously heard a lot about it, and I've tried to track it online. At first, it sounded like a referee mistake, which, you know, that was probably, probably would be, if not fatal, near fatal mistake in WWE, especially on live television or television. but this scenario sounds more like it was if she got the wind knocked out of her and couldn't kick out of it.

The only thing when you were laying that story, I was feeling bad for her is just if she wouldn't have kicked out, this wouldn't be as big of a problem. Right. You know, attempting to kick out makes it even a little more confusing to understand and a little trickier to solve creatively. you know, what do you do coming out of this? Well, we're going to see what they do coming out of it. It is going to be interesting to say the least because apparently they've got a bunch of different creative put together and it was contingent on things staying the way they were.

So we'll see how quickly they can sort of shift gears with all of that. I don't know. I'm sad to hear that that became the discussion because normally under any other circumstance, I think people would be celebrating, you know, that, hey, she got her first title win, and instead it's about this. So I hate that for her, that Hale is not being celebrated and her moment is sort of lost in all of the controversy or perceived. We'll remember her far more now than anything for any other reason, you know, based on what she's doing in NXT for the next year or two. So she just, you know, in an unfortunate manner, but kind of catapulted her name right up there. We should mention that we, today is a big birthday in wrestling.

I think Rob Van Dam, Trish Stratus, and somehow, some way, Stone Cold Steve Austin are all celebrating birthdays as we are just about a week away from Christmas. And I know there's been a lot of discussion over the past week about John Sina being the goat. And certainly that is the way WWE has marketed him. And they're doing that based on the fact that he's won the title 17 times. I laughed when I saw Jesse Ventura say on TV this past week. That means he lost the title 17 times two and that's nothing to brag about. I heard it in my head before he even said the words. Because he's done it for so long.

I love it. Awesome. But when you think about goats in wrestling, I mean, the real goat is celebrating a birthday today when it comes to impact on the business. I'm not saying Hulk Hogan. I'm saying separate from Hogan. If they're even Flair would say, hey, it's 1A, 1B, Hogan and Stone Cold Steve Austin. And it's weird to think, I think Steve Austin's career came to a close.

His in ring finished up when he was just 38 years old, which is younger than a lot of your favorite WWE and even AEW wrestlers today. It's hard to even wrap your head around. That guy is just now a couple of years older than Jeff Jarrett. And his career has been over for so long. I think what could have been with Steve Austin is one of the great questions that people will take away. But I almost would draw an analogy to football.

And I know you're not necessarily the largest football fan in the world. But you grew up in Detroit. And whenever I think a great guy, football players from Detroit, I think of Barry Sanders. And I think most people consider him the greatest running back in history. But he retired early and he retired on his terms. And for that, I kind of relate him to Stone Cold Steve Austin. Is there another sports comparable that you can think of of a guy who enjoyed so much success and was at the top of his profession and did so great,

but walked away so early? Yeah, the early part is the surprising part. And it's one of the things, you know, it's a lot. It's like John Cena in a way. You know, people ask me, you know, what's your feelings on the retirement tour? My answer was pretty, you know, standard, which was like, look, if John's happy with it, I'm happy with it. I'm so happy to hear how anybody in any walk of life, but particularly professional wrestling, because it's uniquely difficult, can end their career in anything that even remotely resemble. their terms, I think is awesome.

And have a happy life and explore the rest of your life and take advantage of things that you've acquired that will give you the opportunity to go do more and see more or contribute more, however you want to do it. I love when that story unfolds. That's one of the reasons why I was so happy with seeing John go out the way John wanted to go out. I'm sure he had a lot to.

do with the creative in terms of the way the thing was structured and certainly that finish. He did it on his terms and he's still young enough and healthy enough to enjoy almost an entirely another lifetime of experiences. Steve is doing the same thing. Now he's busted up. You know, I'm sure he's not, you know, as healthy as he wished he was, but he's in great shape. He's obviously working out hard. He's able to do the things he loves to do. I just think he probably would have liked to, you know, been able to do a little bit more in the ring, I would imagine. But he's not, and he seems pretty damn happy. So hats off to you, Steve.

You're a great guy. Really had one of the most fun things I've ever done in the wrestling business was that storyline I did was still called Steve Austin in WW. It was so much fun. And to say that I was, you know, on a pay-per-view. and worked in the ring. I don't want to say wrestled because that's embarrassing to the wrestling business, but,

you know, performed in the ring with Stone Cold Steve Austin on a pay-per-view. That was such an awesome experience. I'll always be grateful for that. By the way, anytime we get close to WrestleMania season, people start talking about, hey,

is Stone Cold going to come back? Because he did. You know, his last match for a long time was in 2003. We all remember WrestleMania 19. and it was Stone Cold and the Rock. And then we saw three years ago, I guess this coming WrestleMania will be four years ago,

Steve Austin and Kevin Owens, and they had a phenomenal match there in Dallas. But these days, we know that he's the Texas Rital Snake, but we believe these days he's spending most of his time in Nevada. And there was speculation going into last year's WrestleMania in Las Vegas that Stone Cold may be there. Now they're coming back to the same.

city back to back and I think that presents a unique challenge for WWB. How do you beat last year if last year was the all time record? Because what you don't want to do is report lower numbers. You want to break last year's record. You need to keep this momentum going. Will they break the glass, so to speak, pardon the pun, and bring stone cold Steve Austin to WrestleMania in Las Vegas this coming year? So I'm sorry.

I don't know this, Conrad, and I don't expect you to have it on to tip your tongue. but last year, I believe WrestleMania was on Easter weekend. That's correct. It's not this year. They're going to do just fine. They're going to do just fine. That Easter weekend is tough.

That is a tough time to promote something live in Las Vegas, but wrestling especially. So the fact that this WrestleMania is not going to fall on Easter is going to make it a whole lot easier to outperform last year's event.

And I think if you do bring Steve in, well, that just assures it. That's, that's, you know, a double indemnity insurance policy. It's going to be interesting to, uh, to see if they decide to bring stone cold out for WrestleMania. I kind of think it might happen. And I think the next logical question would be if you were to do that, who would you put him with? I think there's plenty of different options.

But if we're going to do a two night, WrestleMania and try to beat last year's record with more in attendance and higher ticket prices, you got to think they're going to try to do something with Stone Cold. Before we move on, because we do want to talk about some of the big news for the week, and we've got a lot of nostalgia on the other side of the news. So stay tuned for that. Hit the subscribe button right here in 83 weeks.com if you haven't already. Eric, do you know who in Stone Cold's last four matches?

who's got 50% of those matches and I think is primed for a rubber match. Well, not a rubber match, but a third match. No, who? Eric Bischoff. Ah! His last match was against Kevin Owens. The match before that was the Rock. That was the retirement match.

But the two matches before that, Eric Bischoff. Now, I hesitate to call it a rubber match because he is two and O on you. I guess what I'm saying is you're in better shape than ever. You've been spending a lot of time with these bad asses. is at real American freestyle. You should have seen me throwing him around a wrestling room earlier today. I'm just saying, maybe Eric Bischoff, Stone Cold Steve Austin coming your way in Las Vegas. Okay, maybe not.

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your choice of filet mignon, New York strip, or ribbis in every box for an entire year. Plus you get $20 off your first box and free shipping always. That's butcherbox.com slash 83 weeks. One more time, butcherbox.com slash 83 weeks and don't forget to use our link so they know that we sent you. It's time for the wrestling news update with Raj Geary. All right. We're joined by Raj Gehr. who's with us and man, we've got so much news to talk about this week, Raj.

There's a lot of news in the news we've been talking about for the past few weeks. What's going on with Warner Brothers? Is it going to be Netflix? Is it going to be Paramount? And man, this story just seems to evolve every week. What's the latest, Raj? Yeah, lots of twists and turns with this one. And we kind of expected it.

I don't know if we expected it to be happening so quickly. But last week we talked about Paramount's hostile bid and well, WPD rejected it. and they advise their shareholders to do the same. They believe Netflix's bid a 2775 per share for the streaming and movie studios is better than Paramount's $30 per share for the entire company. WBD published a letter to the SEC that just buried, they hammered Paramount and said that their $77.9 billion bid was illusory. Basically, it was just an illusion that they were way too leveraged.

Their offer had significant risk. One of the WBD board members was on CNBC this week and was talking about David Ellison's father, Larry Ellison, who is the co-founder of Oracle and is one of the richest people in the world, was saying that he would not guarantee the deal. And they want his guarantee, his signature on the deal to back it. Jared Kushner's firm Affinity Partners had been in the mix on the Paramount side for less than a billion dollars, so not that much, but still a considerable, a decent amount. And they backed out of the deal this week. So looking more and more, like Netflix is the favorite to get it. Right now, the betting markets, we talked about last week, they had favored Paramount. Now Netflix is the clear favorite.

But Paramount's not done yet. They could come back with the higher firmer, a higher. offer with former backstopping, but they did say earlier this week that they were staying firm to their $30 for share deal. So they do that. They have to win over WBD shareholders to accept that bid, and that shareholder vote won't happen until the early, until spring or the early summer. So, you know, obviously lots of ramifications for pro wrestling with this one, depending on which side gets it, which we'll talk about here in a second. But what are you guys' his thoughts on everything that happened this past week.

What a mess. I mean, I couldn't even, because of everything I've got going on, I just couldn't even look into that rabbit hole because I knew I'd never get out in time. But just hearing the back and forth. And look, this whole thing is going to be playing out in media for the next three, four, five, six months. Because now, obviously, Paramount's going right after shareholders.

And so is Netflix. So it's, it's going to get loud. It's going to get ugly. It's going to be, it'll be a great warm up for the midterm elections because it's, it's going to be hot and heavy. It's going to be interesting to see what happens here, Raj. What would you expect are the next steps? I mean, I know that there's lots of different ways this story could go.

But if you were a betting man and, hey, maybe Polly Market has something on this right now, where do you think this winds up? Well, it was interesting just how hard. WBD kind of came after Paramount. I mean, they didn't treat them like a possible future partner. You know, the current WBD Brass clearly don't want the Paramount deal. They want Netflix. This morning, Netflix Brass met with WBD Brass and they shared some photos of it.

So it's clear that's what they want. The shareholders, you know, I think they'll, I mean, with the case that was presented, I think they would, as if they stand right now, would want to go with the Netflix deal. But if it plays out like I think it will, Raj, and here's where it'll just get fascinating because there's no real business answer to this. It's going to come down to emotion. And it's the emotional state of mind of the WBD shareholders

because that's who everybody is currently talking to and they'll be talking to them even more directly in the months to come. And they're going to be playing off emotions. But I think if Paramount, is successful and successfully creates the right emotion among WBD shareholders and uses politics as part of the wedge. I don't know, man. I don't think it's going to be so fascinating to watch this because it's not going to really

have as much to do about business as it does about ego and emotion. Absolutely. And it'll be interesting to watch, obviously, from a pro-w wrestling perspective, just because AEW has been on the WBD network since their start, they had kind of, you know, their entire, you know, all their eggs in one basket. And if Paramount wants them, if Paramount wants to keep AEW and they acquired WBD, it's almost a linear move for what they have right now. You know, they have the linear channel. They have the streaming. so you could still do the simulcast if you wanted to. That's if Paramount wanted to keep AEW,

which AEW is one of the higher rated shows on WBD programming. Now, Netflix, on the other hand, they have pledged to keep HBO Max, but a lot of that is posturing. They're doing that with the WBD Movie Studio side too, where they're saying they're going to keep the theatrical windows the same. But most people expect that after Netflix acquires WBD, down the road, there will be some change.

And same thing with HBO Max. Who knows how long they would keep them if they did acquire them. Because I don't know if it makes sense to have the two separate streaming services. And regardless, hypothetically, if they acquire HBO Max and keep it, still AEW Dynamite doesn't have the same value as being a streaming and a linear property as being a streaming only property. And obviously that's their most valuable asset. So a lot to, you know, a lot of possible ramifications could create a major ripple effect. So I have to keep an eye on it. I do want to ask about some other big news that happened this week.

You know, I don't know, you know, as a rule, we don't normally talk about politics, but there was a pretty big story that happened this week. Mick Foley, who's been involved with the WWE going back to 1996. I guess it was actually December of 95. So 30 years ago, this month, I believe, he saw. signed his first WWF contract. And we know he had a stint with TNA and he sort of played hokey pokey through the years. He's still actively under a legends deal.

But I guess the WWE's association with Donald Trump, as he quoted, Popeye the sailor man, said it's, uh, he's had all he could stance and he can't stance no more. As long as WWE is cozied up with, uh, Donald Trump, he is done with WWE. What do you make of this, Raj? Yeah, he made it clear that it's as long as, as Trump is, president, Trump, this past weekend, you know, iconic actor-director, Rob Reiner was murdered, believed to be by his son and his, and Rob Reiner's wife as well. And Trump had issued, you know, some statements as, as only he can. And a lot of people were upset by him, Mick Foley,

obviously, and for him, he had spoken out against Trump in the past over the years, but, you know, he didn't overdo it. I think he has always recognized that, you know, almost 50% of the country voted for him. It's best to stay out of it because you say one side, you anger the other side. But apparently this was the straw that broke the camel's back. He's cutting all ties until while Trump is in office.

And he also said his legend's deals expiring in June and that he will not be signing a new one. So, Mick Foley, you know, putting his money where his mouth is when it comes to this topic. And, you know,

again, not to get political, but it's had a very mixed response. We don't want to get political, but this is all about politics. Right. Well, Eric,

you know, that's the thing. Even Dave Meltzer noted that I guess he had a conversation or Meltzer saw an interview with Foley where he said that he had some comedy appearance. It was either at the comedy club's Stardome here in Birmingham, Alabama, or at Levity Live here in Huntsville, Alabama.

And I guess he had some pretty strong anti-Trump comments that week leading up to that stand-up show. And there was a big request, a rush of requests for upset Trump fans and supporters who were no longer interested in attending the show. And so Meltzer was saying he knows this will affect his business. And I think that's why, again, I've been in sales and business my whole life. and I've always been told the two things that you avoid are politics and religion. And so when we first started this podcast, Eric and I years ago, we said,

hey, we're not going to talk about politics, what we do in our own social media and blah, blah, but this is supposed to be a fun escape. But I do think that fully right or wrong, you have to respect that, hey, man, if this is how he feels, good on him for standing up. But it does feel like you're splitting your financial opportunities. But if he feels strongly enough about it, good for him, Eric. What's the you? I don't know real well.

I think I know him well enough to know that financially, if he's taking a big hit for taking, for making this stand, he's fine with that. And it probably, you know, it's probably not that big of a hit for him because makes, you know, he lives at or below his means.

And guys like that have the freedom of choice because they've got a strong financial situation, he can make a decision like he's got the freedom to do that. He doesn't have to, you know, hold on to a position that he morally doesn't agree with

because he doesn't need the money. So good on him for having that freedom of choice. You know, I think I just have a different perspective on all this stuff. And Conrad, you know, you said, you know, you learned in sales, you know, politics and religion. I learned in third grade in 1963 to public school in Detroit where we actually had civics classes and social studies. And you learn certain things at a very young age, which is where I was first taught in a public environment.

You don't talk about politics. you don't talk about religion because those are deeply personal issues for people. And I find that as time goes on, maybe because of social media, maybe just because of the way our culture has changed over the decades, the drama around politics is far more captivating than 90% of the stuff you're going to find on network television. I mean, it's very dramatic. And it's fear-based, and it's anger-based. and it's addictive.

And maybe that's why we all preface this stuff by saying, we don't really want to talk about politics, but here we are. It's because it's just something I was taught like you, Conrad, however you learned, just don't go there. And I'm also, I also want to say, I have a lot of friends that are so opposite of me, if not polar opposite of me on so many issues politically and never gets in the way. I wouldn't let that happen with a friend. And so it's not like, you know, this is that hard to do.

But some people just have a hard time with it. They're so addicted to the drama and the emotion of it. They feel so strongly about it that they make choices that they may or may not regret it. In mixed case, I don't think you'll ever regret it. He'll be fine. Well, let's talk about the other piece of news, Raj, this week. This is always interesting. I hate that we're going to talk about tribalism next, but here it is.

The 2025 Sports Illustrated Awards came out, and it was much more lopsided than I ever imagined. It's actually since Eric and I have been recording, Tony Kahn actually put out a tweet that said, On behalf of AEW, thank you to the fans who watch AEW, and thanks to the journalist panel that voted AEW as top company plus recognized eight top AEW stars with AEW winning a total of 10 Sports Illustrated Wrestling Awards in 2025. Congratulations award winners and team AEW on these hard earned awards

Raj they won promotion of the year female wrestler of the year male wrestler of the year tag team of the year best in the ring best on the mic breakout star storyline of the year rivalry of the year show of the year. This is as one-sided as I remember this being in a long, long time. I knew there was frustration online about WW creative this year, but I did not expect this. What did you think, Rosh? I thought it was interesting. I mean, you know, all the all the provable numbers you have has shown a decline, you know, with AEW over the years. Now, I would say personally, I did think AEW creative this year was a lot better than last year, but last year was the worst I had ever seen them have between Tony Fearing for

his life and releasing that footage as punk and Jack Perry and then him getting an attack and having the neck brace and there's just so many bad things in 2024 that I thought their creative was better this year. But I thought for the most part, it wasn't anything to get all excited about. But then again, on the flip side, WWE, I thought their creative was worse than last year. I thought this was their worst year creatively under Triple H, you know, since Vince left. But for the most part, I thought it was still pretty good. It wasn't, they didn't have the killer storylines with Cody, you know, like Cody finally realizing his dream and CM Punk and Drew McIntyre and some of those.

But I thought outside of the John C. Knight Heel run, I thought it was a pretty solid year for WW as well. So it all depends on your personal preferences. I did think I did not agree with probably like half of the awards, but I did agree with some. So it all comes down to your personal preferences, I guess. Eric, I don't believe that you got a ballot in the Sports Illustrated Awards. But when I was posing the question, Raj, you were laughing. You're still laughing.

Eric, what's so funny? Yes. It's cute. It's fun. I'm glad these guys can give themselves awards or each other rewards or whatever that circle jerk of, you know, trophies are that's going on. And, you know, look, let's face it, given the numbers of the AEW audience, I would say a large percentage of their audience, you know, have subscriptions to, to

Dave's dirt sheet. So, you know, it kind of stands as a reason that people that would actually pay money to Dave Meltzer for information would agree with Dave Meltzer. They kind of go hand in hand. It's bizarre. So they're obviously going to vote the way Dave Meltzer thinks. And, of course, Dave Meltzer, AEW, kind of symbiotic, if you know what I mean. So it's not surprising.

I'm glad they have something. I mean, these people need something in their lives to feel good about it. out, there's probably not much else. And if this brings them joy and makes them, validates them, then go Sports Illustrated. Wrestling Observer Awards or whatever it's called. Well, it's not wrestling observer. It is Sports Illustrated, but I hear you.

Maybe you don't put much stock in the end of the year awards. But I do think that, Raj, this may have actually always been the plan with AEW. I mean, it's even in the name, all elite wrestling. So maybe if, you know, if you're looking for box office movies, maybe you look at the Disney's or the marvels. But if you're looking for the critical acclaim, maybe you look for a Miramax or an A24. Don't you think that was kind of the always the idea?

But when you start hiring wrestlers like the Young Bucks and Kenny Omega who aren't necessarily mega stars at a top level from the casual American fan when you're first launching the brand, but boy, they're doing big business in Japan. it feels like you are trying to lean into and cater to, I guess, what Tony calls the sickos. Am I off base in your opinion, Roche? No, I think you make a great point. But it should be noted that last year for the 2024 year-end awards, WW actually swept most of these awards.

This year, 13 categories, AEW, took 11, WW, took two. The year before, WWE swept, but, you know, took most of them. But it would be hard to not give WWE most of those words last year and the year before. So, I mean, this year was a weird year. I didn't think, you know, again, I didn't think either promotion creatively nailed it out of the park. I felt like the John Cena heel run was just, the night that had happened, I remember people comparing it to Hogan's heel turn, the night that John Cena turned heel. And then you look at the next, you know, several months.

And then you see what Hogan's Heeltern did. And it's just night and day. And you just see such a blown opportunity. So I think there's a lot of frustration coming off of that Sina retirement tour and everything that probably played into how the voting went. And I guess that's why I have a hard time doing anything other than chuckling at this stuff. Because it's just based on the Internet website emotional level. I mean, when I look at things like awards, I look at performance. I look at information, data that supports it.

Like, show me how something is. Don't tell me it is. Just show me how it is. Show me why you think it is. And these types of things are all very subjective. So it depends on the audience that's participating and their biases and what they like. And have biases. Same thing.

that particular audience that, you know, is the AEW Dave Meltzer online internet wrestling audience, the core of the core, are going to kind of all think the same. Now, yeah, you pointed out that the year before WW we swept it, you know, AEW was coming off the punk disaster, if you will. There was just a lot of negativity towards AEW in general amongst that particular part of the audience, because that is their base, as Conrad referred to them, and Tony Conn himself refers to them as sickos. Well, that's the audience that I'm referring to.

And, yeah, I get it. Year before, WWE swept it, but I think this is pretty much a core sample of the Wrestling Observer database. And to your point, Eric, I think WWE kind of won mostly the major awards, the prior two years with the Wrestling Observer Awards as well. So there does seem to be like some synergy there. Just weep it.

Well, Raj, we greatly appreciate all the time. We hope that you and the fam have a happy and safe Christmas holiday. We are hoping to be live next Friday the day after Christmas. We hope that everybody will hit the subscribe button and make plans to join us next Friday. the day after Christmas. Raj, in the meantime, how can people keep in touch with you and follow what you're up to? I just keep following me on Twitter at

Rage Gehry. I know this past weekend there's a lot of controversy with some of my thoughts on the Sina retirement match. But just follow me on there. And as long as people are respectful, I try to respond to as many tweets as possible. So I appreciate it. Are they usually respectful, Raj?

I mean, what are your what do your DMs look like? It depends. If it's something critical at WWE, most of them are respectful, even though they don't agree. If it's something that's critical AEW, then it's just a dumpster fire. So it's just very different with those two. It is. Thanks. Very good to see you to have a great Christmas, Raj.

All right. Take care, guys. Thank you so much, Raj. And thanks everybody for checking out Cash App. We greatly appreciate Cash App sponsoring today's show and making our lives a little easier. My mom was recently nearly a victim of a financial scam. I had to teach her all about cash out, but she's hooked up now. And I want you and your family to have the exact same protections. We're talking built-in card security that keeps your money safe from fraud and gives you

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Terms apply, that's money, that's Cash App. Cash App is a financial services platform, not a bank. Banking services provided by Cash Apps Bank partners, prepaid debit cards issued by Sutton Bank, member FDIC, promotions paid for by Cash App, a Block Inc brand, visit Cash.app slash legal slash podcast for full disclosures. So Eric, I wanted to take a minute here and acknowledge that as we're recording today on Thursday. You and I maybe sort of, kind of got a little bit of a shout out from John

Sina and Cody Rhodes. I guess there was a discussion about being pale on the podcast where Sina joined Cody Rhodes. What do you guys want to talk about? They were using the the term paler than sting at Star K-97. Sina said never thought it would get over. Cody said you didn't think that Sting crack would get over. Off the fucking house down. Holy shit. I was surprised at that one. How fun is that that all these years later,

our little silly argument on the podcast about Sting being pale at Starcate 97, it lives on now in infamy maybe, even with Cody and John Cena on a WW show. Yeah, it'll be around a lot longer than I am for sure. It's great to leave a legacy for something. That's actually. Actually, what I wanted to talk about is the legacy of Starcade and December of 1997. There was so much that happened.

We're going to talk about that in just a moment. But before we do, I wanted to put something on your radar in that same interview that Cody did on his fabulous podcast. It's with fanatics. I highly recommend it. What do you want to talk about with Cody Rhodes? He had John Cena, his first interview on the other side of his retirement. And he was reiterating the big heel turn.

He said that it was just done to create a. big moment without there being a fully fleshed out plan moving forward. The exact quote is, they wanted to make elimination chamber a moment. I get it. The business is about making moments. There's nothing wrong with that. You don't always have to have a nine month trajectory. You can understand that like, quote,

yo, we got a ton of eyes on tonight. Let's do something impactful. And then you as artists can run through the maze and figure it out, end quote. So in February, they just wanted to make a moment. And they asked me to be part of it. Now, of course, when this first happened, Eric, everyone was naturally drawing the comparisons to Hulk Hogan dropping the leg and turning bad guy at Batchett of the Beach 1996 and Daytona Beach. What you and I haven't spent a ton of time talking about is, and I think if we're honest, there's probably no way anyone could have imagined that it would be as successful as it was.

Even you had to be shocked by that. and I know you knew it was going to get a lot of eyeballs on that night. But when it first happened, I'm talking the very night that Hogan turned. Did you in your mind think this was a three-month story, a 12-month story, a three-year story? Obviously, the success grew and grew and grew, so hey, we're going to keep playing the hits. But when it first happened, was there any sort of discussion with Holkster like, hey Eric what if it doesn't work because clearly you would have had to have like all right well if it doesn't work then we'll just fucking unwind the thing or something what happened with that

did you go in with the end in mind and what did that look like it's a great question because one of the things that I've learned and and keep with me now at the very front of my list of things to pay attention to is try to reverse engineer, whatever it is I'm trying to accomplish, I figure out what that destination looks like specifically. If I have to visualize it, if I can look at it in a magazine or online or whatever the case it would be, I need to really visualize what the result is that I want. And then it's all about working backwards to get to the first step and how to make sure that there's a building block or steps along the way that are measurable and achievable and all that. It's not brain surgery. People do it in different variations. It's not anything

special. It's just how I have learned to work. And one of the reasons I've learned that lesson is because I did not have a plan going into this. Now, I had a feeling. Let me put it this way. Better way. I had a hope. I hoped it was something that would last a year. Keep in mind, one of my goals back at that time, I think you and I have talked about this. When I first took over WCW, I used to get frustrated with guys like Gene O'Krill and Bobby Heenan or Hulk or, you know, Jimmy Hart was one of the worst. Only because Jimmy was persistent, Jimmy would never give up, right? But he was very subtle about the way he did it.

But all of these guys would constantly remind me of just how perfect the creative process is in WWE how Vince knows a year in advance where he's going with with WrestleMania and of course I believed it and I'm sure to agree at that time it was probably true back when they only had four pay-per-views a year it's a lot easier to do than you know 24 of them or whatever it is they do now but the point is I always wanted to get to the point where we knew we were where we were going to be six months out. And then when we got close to getting it to six months and I wanted a year. So long term was a goal. It was a hope. But it wasn't a plan. Two different things.

We got lucky. And I think part of that luck was when preparation met opportunity as it usually works out. The preparation was the buildup. The preparation was the very, very thing. before I even knew Hulk was going to be the third man, the preparation of the setup, the act one that I often refer to in the Joseph Campbell Hero Journey's book is, you know, that inciting incident, what's the first thing that happens was the screen opens up, the curtains go back, and the movie comes on, what's the first 15 minutes? What are we learning in that 15 minutes? What compels us to get sucked in to the next 15 minutes or whatever?

And I think the way we set up, Scott first, coming down through the crowd, teasing his big buddy, wake, wink, wink, huh? Everybody knew, but they didn't know until they saw it. And then bring Kevin down. And then it was the who's the third man. It was the mystery behind who's the third man. And the buzz that that created because that lasted for a while. In fact, it was that buzz that made Hulk.

Hogan grabbed his cell phone when he was on a movie set and call me to ask me if I could come out to meet him to talk about where we're going in the future because he saw what Scott did. He saw what Kevin did. He knew there was going to be a third man and he wanted it to be him. But at that point in time, he and I hadn't talked about that. That wasn't part of a plan. So when I say we got lucky, yes, we got lucky. Timing is a blessing sometimes. And we had all of that, but it wasn't a plant.

Let me ask you, do you think that's even possible in 2025? Like, as you're laying it out, I'll admit I wasn't watching at the time, but I feel like today with wrestling fans as tuned in to the online conversation through social media. I mean, social media is no longer once upon a time, if you were an internet wrestling fan, it meant that you were the minority of the audience. I know that a lot of people still maintain that. But a lot of these conversations happen on social media. And nearly everyone is on social media. And what are you served on social media? Well, usually your interests.

So I would imagine that you're getting a lot of carnivore diet stuff and you're getting a lot of amateur wrestling stuff. And other people who are listening to this, they may have different interests in soccer or fishing or whatever the hell. So I just feel like it would be a challenge to keep things as big of a secret. Like if you were a hardcore, quote unquote dirt sheet reading newsletter fan, because back then they weren't online. You check the mail on a Monday and there's your, or Tuesday or Wednesday and there's the news of what happened last week, but it wasn't real

time the way it is now. And I'm not sure. Do you think it's even possible to create that sort of NWO mystery and magic of what's going to happen with social media? I know that people can keep secrets. we've shown that and it can work, you know, people work really hard to keep those secrets, but do you think that mystery and magic is just gone forever because we all have the internet in our pocket at all times now? Austin Theory. Let's call him and ask him.

I mean, we do it with Austin Theory. Did me? A lot of internet wrestling fans sized up his body frame immediately. I mean, the night, the mass man thing happened, a lot of people called it.

Now, of course, they could always call an audible and say, hey, maybe that was just a stand in like Black Scorpion was. But even when you go back, like if Stink, we all knew when, when Rick Flair came out at Starcade 90 under that hood, like there's only one guy who's walking like that with a head like that. We know that's him. But I feel like, you know, we would have detected it. And it would have been an online conversation.

And I don't know. I just think some of the mystery has been removed. And I think that's true with. with all things. I'm just wrestling, by the way. I mean, once upon a time,

and listen, guys my age will know this. And Eric, this baby wasn't your existence. But if you're like 40 or 45, you knew a guy at your school and middle school who had a playboy in a Ziploc bag out in the woods, buried under some leaves.

And he'd bring it to school and people will be like, look, a booby, you know, that's silly shit. And now it's like, nobody does any of that anymore. The world has changed.

And I'm just wondering, can you have any of that magic and mystery? anymore in wrestling. I don't even know that it's possible the way it was in 96. Well, it's different. And okay, Austin theory, I guess, was not a good example. I thought it was, but clearly I'm not watching closely enough. But if it wasn't Austin theory, if that's not a good example, what was the most recent, what would you say is the most recent significant surprise in wrestling? Just to jar my memory. Punk showing up at the end of a Survivor series. I don't think anybody saw that, but like there's a lot of fans who have already decided.

And maybe, maybe it's true. Maybe it's not. Because I think as of now, I don't know, I have no inside knowledge. I think Chris Jericho is still under contract. But like, if Chris Jericho is a surprise in the 2026 Royal Rumble, a lot of fans are going to be like, I knew it. And I feel like the surprise of a Hulk Coke and turn, I don't know that it's possible. Now, they did get us with the John Cena turn. I don't think a lot of people necessarily, would have predicted it. But if they would have tried to build a faction and continue to build, I think fans would be able to just internet sleuth it and figure it out. And you want people talking on social media, but man, that's Sarsa. We talked about it at the top of the show.

That's surprise. It's getting harder and harder by the day, I think. What I was trying to establish is it can't still be done. It is probably harder today, as you pointed out, the beginning of all this. Yeah, it's harder. But you also have other opportunities that didn't exist before because of social media. If you think back at this, I'll try not to butcher this too bad. It's getting late pretty. But when all you have is television to work with, and prior to Nitro, prior to us deciding to expand our stage beyond the ring, And that's the point I'm making here.

When you started seeing WCW and Nitro first, really utilizing the backstage area as part of the location, seeing things happening physical inside of the truck or on the truck, spray painting the truck, all the backstage stuff we did. We took the cameras backstage on Nitro in a way that on a consistent basis that had never been done before. on a live show. We shot at ENG style, meaning you're running like you're trying to keep up with the local cop who's chasing the bank robber, right? So it looks like it's a cops type shot. You're in the moment,

as opposed to a lockdown, steady shot that everybody was used to see. So all those little production things that we did that nobody probably went, oh, wow, that's new, but it brought them into the show in an entirely different way. I think that opportunity exist even more now than it ever did,

but not necessarily as part of the television show, meaning you're going to see ways it's already happening. There are already people in WWE who do a really good job of actually using social media, and then there are people who are on social media. Becky Lynch consistently is my number one example, although, Benter, based on what I saw this week, if he keeps that consistency going, he's doing it,

you're going to see how social media is going to be used to help create the illusion in ways that are different than we've had the opportunity to explore yet. So I think it can't be done. I think it will be done more frequently and at a higher level, but not necessarily in a way that we're used to seeing it happen. We want to know from you guys. Can it still happen in 2026? Could the NWO be launched?

The new version in 2026. Let us know below because I think it's interesting. I know that there's been one-offs, but if we're going to build like a faction like that and continue to have surprises and things like that, is it even possible? Let us know what you think in the comments below. J.C.W. Lunacy.

New episodes every Thursday night at 7 p.m. on YouTube. For over 25 years, J.C.W. has delivered the very best in pro wrestling entertainment, bringing fans deep storytelling drama, gut-busting comedy, and unbelievable in-ring action. From wild characters to unforgettable rivalries. Don't miss a single moment. Tune in every Thursday night at 7 p.m. on YouTube, J.C.W. Lunacea. And by the way, if you think you're good at calling it, how it's going to be, let me just tell you, today's episode is brought to you by prize picks. You know, it's like, the holiday season, that's the best time of the year for sports.

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Just use the code 83 weeks and you'll get $50 in lineups after you play just your first $5 lineup. Price picks. It's good to be right. Eric, I can't believe this is real, but we have a big anniversary this week and I want to talk about it because I think when most wrestling fans,

myself included, when they think about the glory days of WCW and they think about the 83 weeks, they inevitably talk about 1997. and this is the anniversary of some kind of fun stuff happening. A few days ago was December 15th. And in Charlotte, North Carolina, 1997, December 15th is when Brett Hart made his WCW Monday Nitro debut. And for a lot of people, myself included, this felt very surreal.

And I know that, you know, to different audience members who are listening to this, maybe that wasn't the case. but I know some of my hardcore NWA WCW fans. When they first saw Rick Flair on WWF TV, it felt like a major moment like, what is going on? How was this even possible? That Rick Flair is in New York.

Rick Flair is with the World Wrestling Federation. But I think fans who grew up a few years after that, they felt that way seeing Brett on WCW TV. Now, I know you book buildings way in advance. So there's no way you would have ever known, A, that you had an opportunity to sign Brett, when you book a building like Charlotte. But you're also just days away.

I mean, you're like less than two weeks away from the biggest WCW paper view in history. And you know you want to showcase him somehow, some way there, but it's probably too late to have a match with any real stakes. So you debut him on December 15th, 1997 in Charlotte. And that photo that Silva just put up for us here at 83 weeks.com,

it still just kind of feels surreal. It's like me as a right-handed guy trying to imagine myself writing with my left hand. Brett Hart in WCW. It's hard to believe that that was 28 years ago, Eric. Does it still seem weird to you, Brett Hart in WCW? It feels awkward

as a wrestling fan even now. Yeah, it's, I mean, it was awkward. Everything about it was awkward. The whole process was awkward. The timing was really awkward. Of course, Brett coming off the infamous Montreal

screw job, which was obviously pretty dramatic and had a lot of eyeballs on it. We didn't really have the time to plan as probably as much as we would have liked with Brett. That whole thing came together fairly quickly. And we've all seen the story unfold. And my God, we've certainly listened to Brett Hartell, his side of the story enough. But everything about it was awkward, rushed and uncomfortable. And obviously didn't work out.

to anybody's liking, especially Brett's. You haven't heard? You should ask, he'll tell you. We know that ultimately WCW, of course, couldn't have possibly had a building booked in 1997. You know, the whole Montreal screw job thing happens like early November of 97. So there's only a few calendar weeks left.

So there's no way to really do that. But even in 1998, WCW was not doing business in Canada. Not to say that they weren't airing programming and selling merch and all that sort. of thing, but they, they weren't running shows. That didn't happen until 1999. And I know that a significant portion of the WWF success that they enjoyed in 1997 was in Canada. And a lot of that was because of Brett. With the benefit of hindsight, do you think not having WCW shows in Canada 98 was a missed

opportunity just for Brett alone? It wouldn't have made that much difference. At the end of the day, One of the reasons WCW didn't spend a lot of time in Canada is because of the cost of doing business. It was very, very expensive. Canada has its own, I don't remember what the acronym is for, but they have their own, like their version of the SEC that has restrictions on non-Canadian producers. So when you come into Canada to produce a show, and obviously we have to get, permitted and go through all of the diplomatic issues that we have to go through in order to bring, you know, 75 or 100 people across the border and put them to work in Canada. A certain percentage of our crew had to be Canadian.

A certain percentage of, you know, the executives associated. There was all kinds of parameters that we had to meet, which wasn't difficult to meet as long as you, you know, wrote a check. So the additional expense of going overseas and producing shows for WCW, which by the way was much higher because WWE had an office, an actual address in Canada, and they had a Canadian agent that convinced himself he was actually the Vince McMahon of Canada.

And he was the pawn because he was a Canadian resident. He was an executive, and I think he gave him the title of WWF President of Canada or some shit like that. So they gave him a big title and they gave them an office. And basically what they did is they did the bare minimum they had to do to avoid paying all of the additional fees that WCW had to spend because we didn't have a quote unquote office in Toronto or didn't have employees there that were considered, you know, executives who are Canadian and all that. So we didn't have that. So the cost of doing business in Canada was prohibitive.

It made no sense. We didn't need to go there. We were drawing everywhere else. We went, why would we go to Canada and probably lose money, or at least not make as much as we could if we were staying in the States? And the answer might be, well, to take advantage of Brett Hart. Well, incrementally, how many more people are going to be able to fill that arena because Brett Hart's on the card? when you could probably sell it out at that point anyway without it. So the incremental opportunity that Brett Hart represented in terms of a live event strategy for Canada was really insignificant.

Now, if we hadn't been doing great business, if we couldn't have filled that arena or closely filled it anyway without Brett, that's a different story. The math might look a little bit different, but that's not where we were at at that time. Let's talk about some other interesting anniversaries. This coming Monday will be the anniversary of an experiment known as the NWO Nitro. And I'll admit, this was probably not the best idea. This is when we took several minutes to dismantle all the WCW logos and introduce the NWO Nitro with Rick Rood, yourself, and Kevin Nash doing commentary. The other experiment that night was with some interesting.

interesting props. We had Hulk Hogan receiving various gifts from the NWO members because this aired on the 22nd of December 1997. This is the go home for StarK97. And you see your face in the background. You've got the big gold belt over your shoulder with the NWO spray paint. And someone gifted Hulk Hogan his own head. That was of course not a gift from the NWO, but one from Sting. this was a silly fun moment in WCW history and I don't think we've spent enough time talking about this this is something that happens just a couple of years after the movie seven came out with Kevin Spacey and Morgan Freeman and Brad Pitt

and what's in the box and it was his wife's head well now it's Hollywood Hogan's head this is a crazy fun little I know sometimes people go a little too over the top with props in wrestling. I thought this one in particular was really well done. What did you think and what did the Holkstra think? You know, every time this thing pops up, it just makes me smile because it's fun. It was really well done. And the reason why it's fun and the reason why we keep talking about it, it's kind of an iconic moment. And the reason for it is because it was so well executed. starting with the actual head itself.

I mean, I was looking at the picture as you were setting this up, and I'm going, damn, looks just like him. I mean, the size, the shape, the ears, I mean, everything about it is absolutely perfect. And then, of course, you've got me in the background with that horrified look on my face. And it's just, that shot is such an iconic shot. It just cracks me up every time I see it. I love it. And it was fun. It wasn't meant to be, you know, we weren't trying to shock anybody into thinking that something, you know, catastrophic and just happened in the ring. This was a, you know, a fun moment, I guess. Man, Nitro in 1997 sure was a lot of fun. And it was fun doing this show with you this year, Eric. We've only got one more show before we wrap up 2025. We are going to be live next Friday, make plans to join us at the

button turn on the notifications bell right here we're going to be here the day after Christmas December 26 at 83 weeks.com and we're going to be talking about the good the bad and the ugly of pro wrestling in 2025 we'll be talking about some big anniversaries we'll be making some predictions for the new year in 26 and we want to hear from you well if you had a Christmas wish for wrestling in 2025 let us know what it would be in the comments below Eric, I hope you and the fam have a fabulous Christmas next week. And I hope most importantly that you have a blast tomorrow at Real American Freestyle. I know you're just in Indianapolis right now, but tickets are on sale at

Real American Freestyle.com. And if you can't make your way to Indy, then you should certainly do what I'm doing. Tune in on the Fox Nation app. I'm fired up to see Wyatt Hendrickson. I fell in love with the guy, but the more I learned about his opponent, the more I'm like, oh, I don't want to miss this heavyweight battle for the belt. Kennedy Blades. This is going to be fun for everybody tomorrow, Eric. A lot of great action. Hope to see you all there. Thank you very much, Conrad.

Thank you, Mr. Silva. And we will see you next week right here on 83 weeks with Eric Bischoff. Did you put Christmas on a credit card? Don't stress out about that extra holiday spending. Savewithconrad.com can help you consolidate all of your high interest rate credit cards into one much lower monthly payment. Savewithconrad.com has a little. families just like yours. Save up to $800 a month. You don't need perfect credit or money out of your pocket. And did I mention no payments until March? So don't make saving money a resolution next year, make it happen today at savewithconrad.com. And of a lesson number 212-9 equal housing lender.