83 Weeks with Eric Bischoff - Episode 407: Eric's Top 5 Marathon II

Episode Date: January 2, 2026

On this special episode of 83 Weeks, Eric Bischoff and Conrad Thompson look back at some of Eric's most talked-about Top 5 lists, diving deep into the moments that defined — and sometimes derailed ��� WCW Monday Nitro. Eric ranks his Top 5 all-time favorite Nitro matches, debating where Hollywood Hulk Hogan vs. Bill Goldberg lands, which classic cruiserweight show-stealers make the cut, whether the very first Nitro match — Brian Pillman vs. Justin "Thunder" Liger — earns a spot, and how many legendary nWo bouts truly stand the test of time. The conversation then takes a sharp turn as Eric breaks down his Top 5 WCW Fails, revisiting the awful moments, terrible decisions, and embarrassing gimmicks that still make fans cringe. And finally, Eric lays out his Top 5 reasons why WCW Nitro simply looked better than WWE Raw during the height of the Monday Night War. Love it or hate it, this episode is classic 83 Weeks — honest, opinionated, and guaranteed to spark debate. BETTER WILD - Save up to 40% off your order at http://betterwild.com/BISCHOFF  PRIZE PICKS - Visit https://prizepicks.onelink.me/LME0/83WEEKS  and use code 83WEEKS to get $50 in lineups after you pay your first $5 lineup! MANDO - Control Body Odor ANYWHERE with @shop.mando and get 20% off + free shipping with promo code 83WEEKS at http://shopmando.com ! #mandopod JCW LUNACY - Juggalo Championship Wrestling drops BRAND NEW episodes of Lunacy every Thursday at 7pm ET exclusively on their YouTube channel http://youtube.com/@psychopathic_records check it out! SAVE WITH CONRAD - Stop throwing money away by paying those high interest rates on your credit card. Roll them into one low monthly payment and on top of that, skip your next two house payments. Go to https://www.savewithconrad.com  to learn more.

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Make it happen today at savewithconrad.com. Head of a lesson number 212-9, Equal Housing Lender. Time to countdown the top five. Brought to you by Save WithConrad.com. All right, Eric, now it's time for one of my favorite parts of the show. We've started to have a look back with a lot of context, because if anything, we know on this show, context is king. And today we're doing a fun top five.

I know our listeners are going to have fun with it. Maybe you not so much. The top five fails in WCW, according to Eric Bischoff. So here we go. Coming in at number five, Eric, on your list of the top five WCW fails is WCW Thunder. I'm curious, Eric, why does WCW Thunder coming at number five on your top five fails? Absolutely devastated, creative. When we had to split and same creative team, but now we've got to come up with great stories for two primetime shows, live,

every week. If we would have grown into that opportunity and had time to develop the infrastructure necessary in order to deliver that show consistently, it would have been a great idea. The timing and the fact that we were forced to do it as quickly as we did had an absolutely devastating effect on nitro. It diluted the product. It diluted the brand. It diluted our ability to tell great stories and it over exposed our top talent. By every way measurable, it was a disaster. You know, obviously there's a lot of moving parts on this, you know, that if we had it to do over again, we would have.

And I know that it created a lot of stress because it's not like you got more budget in order to do this. You were told to just figure it out and make it work. And there's a lot of things that maybe we could armchair quarterback about this. But if we made a list, we checked it twice like Santa Claus. Is there an alternate universe where with the right amount of support or whatever it may have been, is there any universe where Thunder could have been successful?

Sure. Okay. Sure. Again, as I said, if somebody would have come to me and said, look, by this time next year, we want to have a primetime show and replicate the success that we've had for Nitro, we could have figured it out. And we would have been ready to do it. And we could have done it.

We would have done it. But that wasn't the case. I got a phone call while I was on my way out here to Wyoming with my family that I thought was a joke from Harvey Schiller when he said, Eric Ted wants another show in prime time. And he told me the window that he wanted it. It was like within months, not within a year, not within 18 months, not with enough time to plan, build a team, figure out a process that would have allowed us to produce another show in prime time without such a negative impact on Nitro.

I would have been excited about it. That would have been a great opportunity. But to have to turn that around with my existing staff, by the way, not only did I not get an increase in budget shortly after, we took this on, I got my production budget cut, even though it had been previously approved the year before, even though I was outperforming all my targets. I was generating more revenue than we projected. Our ratings were higher than were projected. Everything that we were doing, we were outperforming any measure that had been previously set for us by terms. or finance, not by me, by Turner Finance.

We're outperforming those. So rather than get, wow, these guys know what they're doing, let's give them some more support, let's help create more opportunity for them. No, it was, Eric, Ted wants this, we're not going to pay for it, so you are. And oh, by the way, in another couple months, we're going to cut your budget.

Oh, and that marketing budget you have, that's going to be gone. Oh, and by the way, I know you want to hire some people, but you can't. And if you do have to bring someone in to replace somebody that was already under already staff member, you can only hire from within Turner Broadcasting. You can't bring anybody in from outside the company. Now go watch a new show. Yeah, it was not a good thing.

Well, there you have it. Number five on Eric's list of top five WCW fails is WCW Thunder. Coming in at number four, I may have mentioned this earlier, Halloween Havocke, 1998. Now, I'm not really talking about the ultimate warrior and Hulk Hogan, having perhaps Hulk Hogan's worst match of his entire career. I'm really talking about the idea that we were going to have the runtime change. So we're going to overworked. the fans with value.

We're not necessarily going to charge them anymore, but we are going to give them a little more. And we're going to have our runtime. Instead of being like two hours and 50 some odd minutes, we're going to go closer to three hours and 30 minutes. So three and a half hours, allegedly is what was supposed to be blocked off. But a lot of the cable companies do not get the message.

And as a result, a lot of people are upset because the main event was DDP versus Goldberg. Now remember, this is October of 98. Goldberg just became the man back in July. So he's still riding high. WCW is on top of the world here. And now we have a problem. Tell us what happened, how it happened,

and how you guys tried to fix it. Well, I mean, what happened was pretty clear. Most of the cable systems are many of the cable systems. I can't remember how many. many of them though are too many the satellite time went off like at the three hour mark which was standard

the show was scheduled to go longer the reason for it I guess Mike Weber would be a better person to to break it down from my perspective based on what I remember the challenge was you know did Mike Weber

communicate to our satellite partners? Yes, he did. Did he do everything he could with our satellite partners to make sure things were communicated? Probably. I'd assume so. But what happens because the pay-per-view business was so ad hoc at the time, a lot of the local cable systems were owned by mom and pop. They were small, little operational. that were part of DirecTV or were part of whatever the pay-per-view platform was in a local community. But they operated as small little mom and pop operations in many markets, not in all markets, but in many markets. So the communication between, I'll use DirecTV as an example, to their, we'll call them franchisees, just as a way to kind of create the image of the relationship was sloppy.

And a lot of people didn't get the information. So unfortunately, a lot of consumers didn't get the product because the local cable system had booked it to go off at three hours instead of three hours and 30 minutes. That's what happened and roughly how it happened. and we had to come up with the make good. It was embarrassing. It was cumbersome.

There was no good answer. There was no right way to do it. It was like, okay, what's the least wrong way to do it? That was the discussion the next day. If you go back to Goldberg's first show with the title, there were 11 matches on that show at Bash at the Beach. The following two pay-per-views, which would have been Road Wild and, of course, fall brawl there were nine matches here at halloween havoc 98 there are 12 matches and some of those

if you knew you were using satellite time you probably would have trimmed wrath and ming disco inferno and hovintoo guerrera Alex Wright and fit Finley Saturn and Lodi Kidman and disco that's right not one but two disco matches on pay-per-view here and then we had two tag matches there were sort of Rick Steer or Scott Steiner involved. But then Scott Hall and Kevin Nash, Red Heart and Sting, Warrior and Hogan, and then famously Goldberg and DDP. They had 10 minutes or 10 and a half minutes in that match, but not everybody saw it. So you make the decision the next day to just show the match on Nitro.

At that point, had you just resigned yourself that, hey, I'm going to have to give a bunch of refunds anyway, might as well pop a rating or is there something else? There was no refund option that would have been, I don't know how we would have even tried to attempt to manage that. So that really was, there was no, how we could get everybody that didn't see it, we could give them a refund. There was no way to manage that. But people were asking for refunds. Sure. They were.

Of course they were. And deserved one. There was just no way to functionally figure out a methodology that would allow us to do it even if we wanted to. Right. So then it became, all right, well, if we can't, you know, give people their money back who deserved it, the only thing we can do is make sure they get to see the match. But unfortunately, the people that actually paid to see the match felt like they got ripped off. Wait a minute.

These guys are getting it for free and a bunch of people that didn't even buy the pay-per-view. They didn't get short change. They just didn't buy the pay-per-view. Now, they're getting the main event for free, and I had to pay for it. That's what I mean. There was no good decision. There was no right answer. It's like,

let's pick the least painful wrong answer, which is what we did. Well, that'll do it for Eric's number four on the top five fails at WCW. But coming in, we got three more. We got to sit through three more. Sorry about that.

That's all. Tomorrow or not tomorrow. Right now, we're going to talk about number three. Bash at the Beach 2000. So we've got two paper views in a row here. Of course, this is the infamous night that, unfortunately, was Hulk Hogan's last night in WCW.

And I can't help but think that the way everything went down with Vince Rousseau, I mean, you're going to be leaving WCW. Hogan's going to be leaving WCW. And I think a lot of people would argue WCW never really recovered. They're desperately trying to find any sort of momentum by July of 2000. and we know they're on a death march that will come to an end in March of the following year. Why is Bash at the Beach 2000 number three on your list of top five WCW fails, Eric? No, for the reasons you just described, honestly, you know, that one stupid, selfish, self-serving decision by Vince Rousseau to go into business for himself,

to cut a promo about Hulk Hogan that had never been approved, even though it needed to be, for Vince Russo to, despite the fact that Brad Siegel, who is the head of the network, myself and Hulk and Vince Russo, were on a telephone having a conversation that was involving creative that had nothing at all to do with what Vince Russo decided to do once Hulk and I left the building because he would have never had the balls to do it. while we were there. That I can tell you. He is a gutless,

he's a gutless human being. And he's a pathological liar. And he convinced himself that what he was doing was correct. And he went into business for himself and it cost WCW everything. Hogan left. I left.

There was no hope for it after the two of us walked out the door. Zero. It was nowhere for Vince Rousseau to go with that show. And people like to talk about, oh, is the finger bug of doom, which is like the dumbest, just the stupidest internet wrestling community comment you could hear,

but it's so typical, right? Because those people don't want to recognize that our ratings actually increased after the finger polka doom. Our revenues increased after that period of time. And did so for quite a while. But nevertheless, less because they didn't like the creative is like oh that was the beginning of the end look if you

losers need a beginning of the end moment to point to this would be it from a creative point of view this would be it Eric did you ever have a chance to talk with uh the real life terry belaya about how he would have liked to have ended his wcw run i mean we know ultimately he never comes back to wcw who doesn't get to finish the story i mean silver just had the photo there he dressed like Hollywood Hogan standing over Jeff Jarrett, and we know that there was another idea in mind, but I'm sure with all the money he made and all the fun he had and as important as his turn was to the history of WCW

and hell, for that matter, professional wrestling, I can't help but think it was a missed opportunity that we missed a proper ending to the Hulk Hogan story in WCW. Did you guys ever after a six pack of beer, even freestyle, something like that? No. Hulk never really, he never really talked about how he wanted to end his career anywhere,

WCW or WWE. I don't think Hulk ever contemplated the end of his career. Not that he wasn't aware that someday there would be one, but I think guys like Hulk, Rick, Flair, I would imagine even Undertaker from time to time at this point and just kind of got that, oh, maybe just, you know, I don't want to have a match of WrestleMania, but maybe I could just, you know, because you miss it.

It's a part of your life. It's a part of, it's a part of who you are. It's a part of your identity, I think, when you get to the point of an Undertaker or Rick Flair, Steve Austin, Hulk Hogan, John Cena, rock. You can go on in case of rock. He's out making movies. He's being recognized for,

for some incredible acting in his newest movie. Sina's about to turn the page in the next chapter of his professional career as an actor. I mean, he's been doing it for a while now, but I think you're going to see him getting more and more interesting parts, more things that challenge him and are more rewarding for him. So he's going to continue to grow, but there's always going to be that piece, which is probably why we're seeing him in a farewell tour.

He's not doing it because he needs the money. He's doing it because he has a love for it, a connection to it. And I think when people get to that John Cina level, that Hulk Hogan level, that Undertaker level, yeah, you know the time's coming, but you don't, number one, you don't want to think about it. And when you get there, you start to deny it anyway. So now we never talked about it. Well, that'll do it for number three.

But what's number two on Eric's list of biggest WCW fails? Mike Tyson. And I can't help but wonder when I see that on the list, Eric, is this just the one that got away? I mean, you've told us the story before that, you know, when when you saw and Kevin Sullivan, when he saw Mike Tyson on WW programming, a lot of people felt like, oh, this is real competition.

Of course, we really see him in January of 98. Austin wins the title in late March of 98. the first time Rob wins and ends this 83 week streak is in April of 98. And you had done so well with these celebrity athlete integrations, whether it was Kevin Green or it was Reggie White or it was Dennis Rodman or Carl Malone. Is Mike Tyson the one that got away? Is that why it makes your list of top five WCW fails? No, there was never an attempt to get Mike Tyson.

I mean, that's a Internet wrestling community dirt sheet rumor that's been around forever. I never had one conversation, not a syllable of conversation, with Mike Tyson or anyone that represented Mike Tyson. So it certainly was not a one that got away scenario. And that's why when you brought it up, it's like fail? I mean, it's not a fail, but it was a serious, serious pivot point. and I've talked about it before. Zane Bresla. I was down in Orlando.

I was finishing up some flight training so that I could get my pilot's license. And I was down, I got a call from Zane. I got to a pay phone, return to call. And he said, man, you're not going to believe what WWF's doing now. And at that point, I was like, whatever, I could care less at that point

because we were just hammering them. There was no competition. And he said, they're bringing in Mike Tyson. Whoa. That's, that matters. But here's what's interesting. We were talking about, I was talking to Jonathan Coachman right before we did this podcast. And he asked me, you know, what's the one thing you're most proud of?

One thing that stands out. The two decisions I made prior to launching Nitro was once I do launch Nitro, I'm going to be live every week. WWF is live, one show, tape, one show, live tape, live tape. That was nothing new. I'm going to be live every week. And these are the two decisions that actually change the wrestling business, not some bullshit internet wrestling community hyperbole,

where guys are giving each other participation trophies and how significant they are to the history of the business and all that bullshit. There's two things that changed the history of the business and are largely responsible for the success that WWE is enjoying today and it started right here with me. Live every week, focused on 18 to 49-year-old men, not teens and pre-teens.

Those are the two conscious decisions that I articulated to my whole team that were the reason that Nitro succeeded. And there were the same reason that why in November of 1997, just about six weeks before you saw Mike Tyson, Vince McMahon went on the air and promised his audience he was going to change. Guess what he changed? He changed to the two things that I was kicking his ass with, live every week and targeting 18 to 49-year-old men,

which is why WWE is the success story in the media juggered out. it is today. Because have been stuck with teens and preteens, do you think WWE would have gone public? No. Do you think they would have had the success on television that ultimately had, had they not gone after 18 to 49 year old men? Because I forced them to. Not because they were smart enough to figure it out for themselves, because I forced them to the trough and taught them how to drink the water. Otherwise, they would not be where they're at today. And my, Tyson in January of

98, as you pointed out, was the tip of the spear. It was the first time they really made a commitment to go after males 18 to 49 and to do it on a live format every week. You're all welcome very much. Thank you. Vince, go ahead. I dare you. Send a check because you should.

All right, it's time, Eric. We're finally here. Number one on your list of WCW fails. We've listed a lot of business, but this one's and they've been creative. The shockmaster, Eric, I got to hear. How does this become the biggest WCW fail? You know,

I don't know if it could be considered the biggest because that encompasses a lot. But it was the most embarrassing and avoidable, which is why it's so embarrassing. How did it come about? It was Dusty Rhodes. idea was not an Eric Bischoff idea. I will fall on a sword for my bad ideas and God

knows there's so many of them. But this one wasn't mine. And it's what happens when, you know, Dusty was a very creative guy, very, very creative. And the idea, okay, I mean, there's nothing you can say about that bucket of glitter

that he had on his head. That was just, Yeah. Yeah. There was no scenario where that was a good idea. That was just, just astonishingly bad. However, if he hadn't have fallen through the wall, we wouldn't be talking about his helmet, at least not as much.

But when you're on TV, that had to be live, right? Ben. And he falls through the wall, making his entrance and appearance for the very first time after this big buildup. And this whole set thing that we were doing at the time, it was a destiny really believed in it. He wanted to upgrade the production value of the show and wanted something a little more interesting. His thinking was correct. The execution, however, was horrible. That set should have been designed better.

There should have been more of a. rehearsal. Somebody should have had the balls to say, Dusty, what's with that helmet, that Star Wars glitter thing that's got to go? Put something else on his head if you got to cover. And Fred's a, I mean, he's a big guy,

but he's a good-looking guy. There was no reason to it's not like he was an ugly human being. Some people need a hood and a mask. Some people should not go out of the house without them. But that wasn't Fred. There was some other reason behind it. I don't

what it was. Whatever it was, it wasn't a good thought. It wasn't a good idea. But yeah, that one was not the biggest fail, but the most embarrassing fail, perhaps is why it's number one. What was the ratio of laughter to anger when this happens? Because there had to be some pissed off and embarrassed people. And sometimes when people get embarrassed, they get mad. But other people, it was very, what I remember, it was very quiet. Because, look, here's the truth. It was funny as fuck. I mean, it was funny.

Like, you had to force yourself not to laugh. And because you were forcing yourself not to laugh, everything got real quiet initially. And then it was like, oh, no, Dusty. Now, Dusty wasn't a, he wasn't a yeller and a screamer. He didn't throw shit. He didn't intimidate people. That wasn't at Dusty's stuff.

thing. But nobody wanted to be around Dusty when Dusty was pissed off. He got quiet. Dangerous people get quiet. People that make a lot of noise when they piss off are generally harmless. They're trying to make you think they're pissed off. They want you to be sure that you know that they're unhappy. The really scary ones don't say much. And that was Dusty. he didn't say much and nobody wanted to laugh so everybody did the next best thing and just shut the hell up and so it was very very it was eerily quiet for quite a while if silver can show that picture of him falling through the wall all i could think was it may have been quiet in the studio but eric this is what was in your mind

I just felt horrible for Dusty because I knew I knew how this was going to land. I knew what was going to, I knew what was going to follow. And I felt so bad for Dusty and Fred. I didn't know Fred really well, but I felt bad for him too. All right. I think we talked about this last week. A couple of weeks ago, I come home from being out of town for a few days. And guess what?

I have a third dog. Yeah, Megan picked up a puppy. and I'm excited that she has a Christmas present, I guess. I don't know. I love puppies. We all love puppies. But I feel like our new dog, whose name is Lil Daddy, I'm not even joking about that, is that I'm starting with more knowledge.

You know, I've had ginger and baby in my life, I don't know, since 2018. And I just thought that all dogs hitched and scratched and rubbed and licked their paws and shook their heads. I just thought, hey, this is just normal dog behavior. But I've learned that's not normal. Those are actually signs of allergies. You see, allergies and dogs flare up whenever bad bacteria takes over their gut because 90% of your dog's immune system actually lives in their gut. And just like humans, dogs need probiotics or good bacteria to strengthen their gut health

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it's time to count down the top 5 brought to you by save with conrad dot com we had a little fun last week talking about you know some of the highlights and the best moments of wcw nitro history or at least your favorite moments so we thought this week we would ask eric what were your favorite wcw matches Nitro. So that's what we're going to do. We're going to do a top five for Eric Bischoff's favorite WCW Nitro matches. Here we go. Number five. Coming in a number five is certainly one of the most famous matches in Nitro history. We're talking about Bill Goldberg and Hollywood Hogan live on TNT on Monday night, July 6th, I believe, 1996.

perhaps it's July 7th, but early. No, wait, that's not right. It's 1998. That's right. This is the nitro from 1998. Man, where does the time go? This is obviously the largest crowd in the, in the history of WCW. Nitro, July 6, 1998.

You see there as the show is going off the air, Goldberg is posing with the big gold belt in the right hand and the U.S. title on the left hand. And this was in the backyard of the hot. home of WCW Nitro. So it does feel like this is a shoe in to be on your favorites list. Were you strutting like a peacock that day? All those Turner executives there and here's this huge crowd and they're just pandemonium

for Goldberg at that moment. That had to feel like a high watermark of just personal achievement almost for you, right, Eric? I mean, it was, you know, there was, I don't remember what the crowd number was. I think it was around 40, 45,000, whatever it was. But it was a sellout. And back then, that was a pretty big deal in Atlanta. And I was excited about that.

The way the whole thing came together was almost spontaneous. I've told the story before. I want more people with it again. But I'm in California and business. Driver down, I was in Marina del Rey, and looking for an exit. I get a phone call from Hulk. And he said, hey, I got an idea. I want to run by you.

I pulled over the side of the road. and he said, I want Bill to beat me in Atlanta. So, what? Usually, you know, those kinds of conversations would take place over the course of weeks of convincing and what ifs and where do we go from here. So for Hulk to call me spontaneously and throw that out there was very memorable. I was excited about it. And I knew it would be good. I knew it would be well received.

but I think the reason it's one of my favorites is because for the very first time, Turner executives, those people who for years were trying to convince Ted to pull the plug on WCW, we're all of a sudden first in line trying to get tickets for their friends and family. And that was more of an achievement to me from a corporate perspective than almost selling the building out.

Because that was a constant battle for WCW. It was a constant morale battle. Now, you've got 60 or 80 full-time employees working for you, and they show up at work every day knowing that the executive committee at Turner Broadcasting would prefer that they don't show up to the building. In fact, they actually did move us out of the CNN Center. But you just felt like that unwanted guest at a party. And then to have it turn around in such a relatively short period of time,

and now I'm getting calls from members of the executive committee who want to bring their kids and their kids friends to a nitro. That was a major accomplishment internally. And I think that's one of the reasons it's one of my favorite matches. If you're curious, 41,412 fans in the building that night for a Monday night TV show that they could have sat at home and farted in their own couch and watch for free. But instead, they got in their car on a school night.

I guess it's not technically a school night, but a work night, a weekday, drove down and paid for parking and bought a ticket. Nobody wanted to miss such a monumental moment. People are still talking about it. I mean, no disrespect to Bill Goldberg. We've celebrated the legend. He recently had this last WWE match. But without him beating Hulk Hogan, his career doesn't look the same, right?

Don't you agree? I mean, this is the biggest moment in his career for sure. It absolutely was. I think it, you know, look, Bill had a lot of steam. behind him. He was really coming on strong, very, very successful, obviously. But beating Hogan on Monday Nitro, I think that just put the well-deserved crown on Bill Goldberg's head. That was the moment where he was officially a bona fide superstar. I mean, not to beat a dead horse here, but I'm just saying in an alternate universe,

if you guys had decided to not pull the trigger and not take the belt off of Hulk. And Goldberg was unsuccessful in his attempt. I mean, some of the mystique, it's off. It changes forever. Like, I think it changes the course of his career and maybe WCW. If Hogan just beats him, I don't know if it's the same. Like, I'm glad that you guys had that vote of confidence in a new guy, a young guy, respectfully a green guy.

And you put it on him and man, he got to take the ride. I think it's such an interesting thing to think. What if the booking was a little different? I think it all shakes out a lot differently in hindsight. 100%. In fact, I had a phone conversation with Bill yesterday. We talked about this match, actually. And, you know, in Bill's words, this was the match that put him on the map.

It's easy to see why that was number five, but we're not done. We got a few more. Number four. This is a surprising pick. I guess it shouldn't be because we know how much you love and appreciated and respected and certainly highlighted the cruiserweight division. Coming in at number four is Ray Mysterio and Dean Malenko from July of 1996. This is from Universal Studios and Malenko is going to be defending his cruiserweight title

against a familiar foe. again, Malenko is well established here in this division, or at least more established, but the new bright, shiny object in WCW in a big way is Ray Mysterio. And this is like a coming out, a coming out party, if you will. But what a performance and what an amazing moment when Ray is able to reverse a tilt the world backbreaker into a Huracanana, grab the legs, and pin Malenko. and this is really the first great cruiserweight division match in the history of Nitro. We would see these continue through 96 and 97 and 98 and on and on.

But I think we had seen some cruiserweight stuff before on Nitro. I think most people would point to this one and say, hey, that's it right there. For me, Conrad, and to this day, whenever I have an opportunity to go back and watch, Look, Ray Mysterio is in a universe all of his own. We all know that. He's an amazing performer that broke so much ground and so many of the athletes, the wrestlers that you see today that are not 250 pounds, which is a lot of them now, right?

Both in WW and AEW and in TNA. They owe a debt of gratitude to Ray Mysterio because he proved to the world that you don't have to be a larger than a life character to be a great performer. That be said, Dean Malinko was my favorite.

Now, that's a personal thing, right? It's subjective. Not comparing him to Eddie Guerrero or Ray or anything. I'm not talking about his in-ring technical expertise compared to those individuals. Right. but Dean made me believe in a way that very few other performers did. The minute Dean came through the curtain, he had this cold, deliberate, just this aura that he brought to the ring with him long before he stepped foot on the mat.

and it was his believability in the way he carried that character. Obviously, his performance in the ring was outstanding. I actually preferred Dean Malenko style a little bit more than I preferred Ray Mysterio style, because to me, Dean was more believable. It's, again, it's subjective. It's just based on what I like, right? I'm not trying to compare them, really, but their styles were different. And Dean was so believable in everything he did.

To this day, he's one of my favorite performers. I think he's, everybody acknowledges how great of a wrestler Dean Malenko is, but I think he's still underrated, underappreciated. He was magic. He was flawless. I dare anybody to go back and watch a Dean Malenko match and look for a botch. Look for anything that looks like it could have been a botch. You're going to be up all night looking for that.

shit. He was so good at what he did and so good at making me believe what he was doing. Perhaps not the best analogy, but I know exactly what you mean. I know his gimmick name or his nickname was the Iceman, but there was this quiet, deliberate confidence that on some level almost makes me think of the Michael Douglas character in falling down where you see that he's sort of unassuming he's got a short sleeve button up, a briefcase, a tie, and kind of some nerdy glasses. And you just don't expect much. But there's something about the look in his face and his expression where you're like, oh, that guy's not here to mess around.

We need to get out of his way. That's kind of the way I felt about Dean Malenko and his approach to the ring and just adjusting his wrist tape. It was so matter of fact, Eric, am I all face there? No, I think it's exactly what I mean. It's a perfect example of what I was talking about. There was just something about him. You know, he used to come, he'd walk down the ramp and he'd be doing this.

Yeah. You know, he wasn't posture into the crowd. He wasn't pimping. He wasn't peacock. And he was just getting ready to fight for his life. That's the way I felt when he walked through that curtain. And I felt that way all the way up until the bell rang and ended the match. This was a guy who was coming to the ring to fight for his life.

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Let's pick it back up where we were. I think it's time for another match from Nitro way back way. Number three. No surprise here. We're going back to what started at all the very first match on the very first nitro. Ryan Pilman and Jusian Thunder Liger on the debut Nitro. it was Labor Day 1995, September 4th.

And of course, this is a famous rematch. I think we all remember the Super Brawl match from a few years prior to this. Maybe that was back in 92, but it was like the gold standard for what WCW was doing different land, the WWF in 1992. So what better way to stand out than, hey, let's run it back. And you played a few of the hits on that show.

You had Sting and Rick Flair on that show, but you also had Pilman and Liger. Now we know with the star power of sting and flare, and it's a proven draw on Turner, hey, we need to pop a rating at the clash. Get sting and flare back over here. But this is different. Yeah. This is Eric making a statement, I feel like.

Why was this the first nitral match? Oh, so many reasons. I think a lot of it had to do with the fact that by this point in time, I was spending a lot of time in Japan became much more familiar with Tushin, Liger probably learned to appreciate his style and his presentation, much more than I had previously. It was always a huge fan of Brian Pilman. I knew that Brian and Liger could have a phenomenal match, but it also had a lot to do with building the brand.

And as you pointed out, being different than my competition and doing something that made people recognize the difference between the format that I created for Nitro and the format that had been created for just about every wrestling show up until the up until Nitro came along. It just fit. It gave us a more international feel, which was important to me. But I also just knew the match was going to be outstanding. I think Liger might not have been at the peak of his career at that point in time, but he was so freaking fun to watch.

and so was Brian Pilman. I just knew it would be a great match. It was a great match, and we want to hear from you guys. What were your top five Nitro matches? Let us know in the comment below, and we'll cover those next week. Another special one that I know a lot of our fans and listeners remember so fondly comes in next. I can't wait for this one. Number two.

I think we all remember what happened in May of 99. tragically Owen Hart lost his life and over the edge and you guys allowed Brett Hart an opportunity to play to pay tribute to Owen and technically this happens when you're not with the company you left several weeks prior to this and went fishing but Brett Hart and Chris Benoit had a really special match on Nitro a match that I still hear fans talk about today they went 32 minutes which makes it one of if not these the longest nitro match in history, but it really was an ultimate sort of back and forth. I know we all think of Chris Benoit as a main event guy now.

That wasn't necessarily the case by 99. He not yet won the world title and not main evented any paper views. Certainly within the business, if you were a hotline listener or a newsletter reader, you knew he was one of the best in the world. But that day, they brought out all the stops, two Canadians. things tribute to Owen Hart, Brett Hart, and Chris Benoit. And what sticks out to me about this one, Eric, is you're technically not even there. But the respect you had to have for both guys and the meaning behind the match,

that comes in at number two for you, right? Yeah, I'm a little bit sketchy on this one. What was the date on it again? It's October 4th, 1999. They're at the Kemper Arena in Kansas City. As a reminder, that's the very building where Owen's accident happened. So this would have been Brett's first time being back in the building since his brother passed, just five months prior, less than five months prior.

And I think it's really classy that WCW and the Turner organization allowed him the opportunity to go out there and honor his brother in the best way he knew how, have a kick-ass wrestling match with Chris Benoit. Well, you talk about two complimentary performers, athletes, amazing psychology. impeccable technical work in the ring, the emotion of the moment because of everything that happened, as you pointed out, with Owen and Brett wrestling in that same building. I just think,

whoso's, I'm not sure if it was Brett's or Rousseau's or whoso's or whoso's ever idea it was, was a phenomenal idea. and I just think the match brought so much emotion, but yet was such an amazing presentation because of the skill of both Brett and Chris. Absolutely one of my favorite matches. It's a phenomenal match. I encourage everyone if you've never seen it because I realize,

you know, by late 99, respectfully WCW wasn't as fun. Eric would agree with that too. but go watch this very special match. Fred Hart, Chris Benoit, October 4th, 1999, a tribute to Owen, 32 minutes. It was a kick-ass match. And there's one more that makes your list, Eric, and I can't wait to see what people think of this one. Number one. You know, we all know that you in real life have always been tight with Diamond Dallas Page.

but DDP and Sting tore it down April 26th, 1999, and it's for the world title. This is the era where DDP is going to become the man and become the world champion. And there's a red hot crowd here on hand at the Fargo Dome in Fargo, North Dakota. You know, we haven't spent a lot of time talking about that.

Why do you think the Fargo Dome did so well with Nitro. And I don't remember there being a lot of great WWE moments. And it feels like WCW, you guys had like a stronghold there. Yeah, we did. It's hard to explain. I guess probably a lot had to do with the fact that Fargo is from a routing

perspective. Like if your job is to book buildings, but do them an efficient way so that you're not going from one end of the country to the other end of the country, Fargo often gets overlooked or did at that time. Fargo often got overlooked for major television shows, major events, probably even big concerts. Like I don't think the Rolling Stones ever would have played Fargo.

Maybe because they were in Minneapolis. But for the most part, a market like Fargo, because it's in the middle of the country, the northern part of the country, it's hard to get to. There's nothing remotely close to it. far as a major market. So if your job is to efficiently route your tour in major markets where you can sell out a show, but yet it's efficient from a travel perspective, Fargo's not going to be high on your list of things to do. When we brought a big event to Fargo, it was like the

biggest deal that had happened there in a long time. So I think that had a lot to do with it. I like to think the fact that, you know, there was a lot of Minnesota in WCW at that time. And that may have had a little bit to do with it too. But I think primarily it was because we were just a big damn deal. And Fargo didn't get a lot of big damn deals back of the day. Just to add some context to what made this match so special. And it does bring up a point you and I've never really talked about. It's that DDP had just won the title.

15 days prior at Spring Stampede, and it was a four-corner's match with a celebrity guest referee. It was literally a who's who. It was its own wrestling hall of fame, even in 99. Then it was DDP, who I'll admit felt like which one of these is not like the other. I mean, you've got Hulk Hogan, Randy Savage, Sting, Rick Flair, and respectfully, DDP. He was the new kid on the block. And I think that's why it worked so well. He was the people's champ. He was the ultimate underdog. and that character wanted you to count him out and he wanted to prove you wrong and 15 days later I guess sting takes exception to how Dallas won the match and he challenges him and they work their

ass off in this I mean I even read a reviews that said this fantastic match was an indicator of page's desire to produce his champion and a reminder that sting could still go and he was not bogged down by aging legends uninterested in delivering the best in ring content possible and that crowd without them, who knows if this match would have been as extraordinary as it proved to be. But what's interesting about this, the reason I bring it up is this is the end of DDP's longest title run.

Now, technically he won the title three times, but between all three rains, Eric, it's 17 days. I mean, he won it again for two days and less than one day. He lost it on the same day in WCW in 2000. So it's weird to think, hey, he was the world champ three times, but for a total of 17 days. Now, I know nobody really keeps up with that stuff and it doesn't really matter in the scheme of things. But with the benefit of hindsight, do you think that should read like, hey, Dallas didn't need the belt?

Because we hear that a lot. Like, hey, the undertaker didn't need to be champ. Hey, Jake, the snake didn't need to be champ. He was an attraction on his own. Did it work against the underdog character, the ultimate underdog character that DDP was? if he was the champion or was it something else? No, it wasn't because it was for no other reason than Page, in my opinion, fell into the category where he didn't need the belt,

but boy, the belt sure helped him because he was the underdog. He was every man. I mean, GDP as the character, made no bones about it that, you know, he got into the business late in life and the cards were stacked against him and, you know, he was swimming upstream and whatever other metaphor you want to come up with, that was part of who his character was. So for Page to be able to finally achieve that goal,

it meant a lot to a lot of people. And I think it got Page way more over than, say, winning the belt would have gotten Scott Hall over. Scott was the embodiment of a world-class professional, wrestler who absolutely did not need a belt. Not that Page did need it, but it sure helped them a lot. J.C.W. Lunacy, new episodes every Thursday night at 7 p.m. on YouTube. For over 25 years, J.C.W. has delivered the very best in pro wrestling entertainment, bringing fans' deep

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We give Eric Bischoff's top five. And today is an interesting top five that you came up with. I got to be honest. I didn't see this from coming. The top five reasons that Nitro's production was better than Monday Night Raw. Now, this is interesting because for years and years, it's been parroted that WWE had much better production. And you say, nay, nay, WCW doesn't get there just due.

Let's start with Eric Bischoff's number five on the top five reasons that nitrous production was better. And this is an easy one. Nitro was live every week, Eric. Fundamentally changed the entire industry. And people use that term all the time. Oh, it's changed the industry. Nothing has changed the industry more than a decision that I made personally to move Nitro to a live weekly show.

It took WWE almost two years to follow suit, and they've never looked back since. Live television, live wrestling in particular is what really helped change. the landscape of the wrestling business in a legitimate way, not just for WCW across the board. It's interesting too when you think back on how important this was really and truly because live had not been a staple. I mean, even Saturday night's main event was not live. And I think people just assumed it was because Saturday Night Live was a show also in NBC,

but it was not live. And as the internet was growing, I don't know that wrestling could have survived without pivoting to live. Do you? No. No, I mean, again, if you step back, like if you were a financial analyst that was studying the business of the wrestling business back that. And you looked at the critical markers, those moments along the way over the last 20 years or whatever, whatever time period you're looking at. What changes were made that radically changed the trajectory of the industry?

Again, you won't find one of them, in my opinion. Well, here are the top two. And kind of one of the top two. One is Nitro's commitment. And by the way, it was a very expensive commitment. One of the reasons that nobody did live every week is because live was really expensive. WWE at that time would do, it'd show up at a location, one episode would be live, and then they'd hold that same audience and tape next week's episode, right?

The reason they did that is because traveling every single week for a fresh show is very expensive. Everything is, you're doubling your cost. When Ted said Eric go head to head with WWE and go win, the very first thing I determined was live. When I sat down with that yellow legal pad, live tape. Their tape, I'm going to go live. Biggest differentiation, market differentiation was being live. Now you fast forward, one of the reasons that WWE has done so well financially in the public markets,

as well as their mergers and acquisitions, or acquisitions, I should say, is because the value of those broadcast rights went up so, significantly, mostly because it's live and because it target 18 to 49 year olds. It took Vince two years to figure it out, but he finally followed WCW's path, so to speak. They went live every week, and they started targeting 18 to 49 year olds instead of the teens and preteens. Those two things have probably had a more significant impact on the business of the professional wrestling business than anything else because none of those things would have ever happened. Netflix wouldn't have happened if WWE wasn't live sports or live sports action, live action sports, call whatever you want. They would have not ever gotten that deal.

Their stock prices would have never gotten to the point. They would have never gone public for crying out loud. So yeah, I think going live was critical. It comes in at number five, but it could easily be number one. By the way, from an ad sales perspective, it's huge. too, I can tell you as a local advertiser who spent millions of dollars between Alabama and Tennessee, just promoting my mortgage company, the thing I got the best results on, the thing I got the best bang for the buck, the best return on investment without question was live. I only bought live sports and live local news. And let's be real, local news is what it is, but nobody's going to DVR local news and watch it later. They're just not going to do that. So news and sports,

what do they have in common? They're live. and that is Eric's number five. Let's take a look at Eric's number four on the top five reasons that nitrous production was better. The cruiserweight division's presentation. Now, I know what you're thinking to yourself. You're thinking to yourself self. That's not really production, but I agree with Eric.

It is because technically the WWF did a light heavyweight division, but nobody talks about it. Nobody remembers it. Nobody celebrates it. It was the production and the way these guys were presented. It's not less than, right, Eric? Correct. And, you know, production is, you know, that's subjective because to some people,

production includes, you know, the obvious lights, audio, pyro, the number of cameras you have, what kind of audio system you have set up. Those are all physical manifestations of, quote, unquote, production. But production also includes creative. Production also includes pacing. Production also includes format. really like boring shit nobody ever talks about right nobody ever talks about format when they talk

about professional wrestling but they should because the format in this case the live format that nitro introduced into the industry as being the first weekly live show on national show um sorry i forgot where i was going i'm trying to make a point i lost myself keep going well we were just talking about the way you shot these matches too oh so the entire presentation is all a part of production. And we made it specifically, we made a decision for the cruiser weights to be at the crossover section. So we'd go on at eight, Raw would come on at nine, and we'd both be on from nine to ten, right? We were two hours for a while. They were one. It was the positioning, the format that positioned those cruiser weights right at the cruising weight or right at the top of the crossover

hour. And why did I want them there, you ask? Because people, there's viewing habits, right? There's viewing patterns. It's almost subliminal or subconscious in people's minds. But at the top of the hour, people have a tendency to pick up their remote and see what's going on next. Well, I didn't want them to pick up the remote and see what's going on over on Monday Night Raw. If I had them by up to myself from eight to nine when we were unopposed, I wanted to hold on to them. And it was a creative process as well as a production effort to make sure that these matches took place right at the crossover. They would generally start about three or four minutes before nine o'clock and they'd carry through to about three or four minutes after the

nine o'clock. That was kind of like the target time within the format for cruising weights. And specifically wanted the action, and this is why I'd work with Kevin or whoever was agenting the match and responsible for it, this is where I'd want the peak of the action at that 9 o'clock. So I want a bodies flying through the air at straight up 9 o'clock because I knew then if I had them, if I had those viewers, and they're watching that action, they're not flipping the channel. So I would agree that production and the Cruiserweight Division were synonymous in many respects.

number three on Eric's list of the top five reasons that nitro's production was better than WWE's Monday Night Raw. It's the nitro look and feel the sets, the lighting, the music. And I know this feels on the surface like a little thing, but it is not a little thing. That set is so iconic. I mean, this entrance with the pyro out of the corner posts and the light under the ring, like I remember you could sort of see through the ring skirt, it was sort of glassed. I don't know, dude. I feel like if WWE dusted this off just for a one-off,

you'd take grown men to tears. They loved it so much. And man, let's remember, Monday Night Rawl was just three big letters, R-A-W. That's all. It was three giant red letters, R-A-W. This is a whole other ballgame here in the presentation, Eric. That's why it's number three, right?

It is. And, you know, one of the things that I talked to David Crockett about and there were a lot of other people involved beyond David. But I wanted, when it came to the set design, I wanted the night show. I wanted the open of the show. This is the way I described it to people.

This is the way I described the show to just about everybody that worked for me on the production side. I want this show to feel like a party. I don't want it to look like a sporting event. I want it to feel like a party. I want people sitting at home to say to themselves, or subconsciously, man, when this party comes to my town, me and my buddies are going. That was the vibe. That was the energy, including the look and the pyro and everything else.

That's why we did the, you know, nitro watch parties. We fabricated that shit. And then it became a reality. We shot those things, trying to make people believe that there were actually people sitting around having nitro parties. And about three weeks later, they started sending in tapes and people were actually doing it. So those are all instruments, tools, production tools that we use to make Nitro feel like a party, including the graphics at the set. All right, man, it's the new year. And a lot of us, we say things like, or we at least hear things like, New Year, new me.

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list of the top five reasons why nitrous production was better than monday night raw and this is a fun one reality based storytelling and on location segments. That's a big deal. Tell us about it, Eric. Well, the reality-based storytelling was something that, as we talked about earlier in this show, was something that really started to evolve with Nitro. When I realized what I was up against, going head to head with WWE, and looking at that 18 to 49-year-old target audience and nobody else was paying attention to, I didn't know exactly how to appeal to that audience.

It was a process, trial and error to a deal. agree, but I knew, for example, I wanted Scott Hall to come down to be Scott Hall. I want to give him a gimmick name. I hate gimmick names. First of all, most of them sound stupid. And the only thing that they do is give ownership and control over the licensing and merchandising of the company that employs that talent and gives them a gimmick name. I wanted Scott Hall to be Scott Hall. I want to Kevin Nash to be Kevin Nash. I want to Bill Goldberg to be Bill Goldberg. Yes, we have. Yes, we had other characters, and we introduced characters, like Mortis, for example, because we were still trying to find ways to satisfy certain segments of the audience. But the core, the focus, the A stories,

the most important stories were reality-based. And that's right up there with live 18-49 reality base. We did it first. We did it best in some respects with regard to you. the NWO, but another absolute game changer. I mean, the NWO segments looked real. You know, it was an air of realism. And we know eventually everything else would follow the, the bloodline docu drama content, the broken Matt Hardy, but the NWO stuff, I think that's why it resonated.

It felt real. And the on location stuff, like when you guys shut down the park at Disney, everybody's calling 911, and the Mall of America shoot, like it felt relatable. Well, maybe until they feel that a big block of ice. But let's get number one on Eric Bischoff's top five reasons that the Nitro presentation and production was better than Monday Night Raw. The NWO takeover presentation.

I mean, this is exactly what we've been talking about the whole time. Maybe there's no better example than the NWO. It was so different than everything we'd ever seen before, right? It was, and the audience was, they were dying for it. They didn't even know they were dying for it. It just snuck up on them and grabbed them. But everything about this presentation, you know, one thing I want to make clear, though,

and I firmly believe that the nitro production back when we were head-to-head was better. Now, better in this case is also subjective. One of the things, from a technical point of view, you could certainly argue that Kevin Dunn and his crew could absolutely produce a higher quality when it came to production values, lights, camera angles, audio, whatever. Nobody does it better to this day than WWE. In fact, nobody's even close anymore. And WWE and Kevin Donne and his team were always able to produce a glossier, tighter product than WCW. WCW's felt more real. It allowed the viewer to feel like they were in the venue. And I've said this many times you've heard it.

Watching WWE back in the day was like watching Disney on ice. The production values were so high that it didn't. didn't feel live. You could have been watching it at an IMAX theater. It was that good. Nitro felt like you were at a party and you were part of the show. And that subconscious, subliminal difference between the two products is one of the reasons why Nitro was so successful head to head because we just felt like the right place to hang out. It was unbelievable, man. I mean, you let the NWO seemingly break the fourth wall, you know, when you hear the announcers sort of whispering like, hey, what's, what's going on?

Yep. It just makes it feel more dangerous, more authentic. It felt like a hostile takeover. Some great graphics here and great stills. If you want to join us and watch along with us here at 83 weeks.com. Yeah, WCW wasn't just compelling in wrestling and competing against the WWE and wrestling. They were reinventing how wrestling looked on television. And yes, everyone caught up, but years later.

So let's recap Eric's top five reasons that Nitro was having better production than Monday Night Raw. It was live every week, the way the cruiser weights were presented, the look and feel, the sets, the music, the fire, the reality-based presentation, and of course, the NWO. What was your favorite piece of WCW production? Why did you like the way Nitro felt versus the way Raw felt? Let us know in the comments below, and we will be looking for those comments next week here on the show. Did you put Christmas on a credit card?

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