83 Weeks with Eric Bischoff - Episode 410: WWE Royalties Explained

Episode Date: January 23, 2026

On this episode of 83 Weeks, Eric Bischoff and Conrad Thompson take a deep dive into WWE's so-called royalty system. Eric weighs in on a recent social media post from Marc Mero that reignited the debate, offering his candid take on how things really work behind the scenes. The guys also break down the fallout from TNA's debut on AMC, including the disappointing ratings and reports of interest from a major hip-hop artist looking to buy the company. Plus, has WWE Unreal officially gone off the rails? Eric and Conrad share their unfiltered thoughts on Season Two of the Netflix series. It's a news-heavy, opinionated edition of 83 Weeks you won't want to miss. HARRY'S PLUS - Get the Harry's Plus Trial Set for only $10 at https://harrys.com/83WEEKS #Harryspod MARS MEN - Get 50% off FOR LIFE, Free Shipping AND 3 Free Gifts at Mars Men at http://Mengotomars.com  CHIME - Chime is not just smarter banking, it is the most rewarding way to bank. Join the millions who are already banking fee free today. It just takes a few minutes to sign up. Head to http://Chime.com/83WEEKS  . SIGNOS - Visit http://SIGNOS.com  and get 25% off select plans with code 83WEEKS.  STEVEN SINGER JEWELERS - No one does real diamond jewelry better. Experience the difference at Steven Singer Jewelers. Go online to http://IHateStevenSinger.com  today! Always fast and FREE shipping is waiting for you. BLUECHEW - Get 10% off your first month of BlueChew Gold with code 83WEEKS at http://BlueChew.com  PRIZE PICKS - Visit https://prizepicks.onelink.me/LME0/83WEEKS  and use code 83WEEKS to get $50 in lineups after you pay your first $5 lineup! SAVE WITH CONRAD - Stop throwing money away by paying those high interest rates on your credit card. Roll them into one low monthly payment and on top of that, skip your next two house payments. Go to https://www.savewithconrad.com  to learn more.

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Or send me an email, Conrad at savewithconrad.com. Hey, it's Conrad, the mortgage guy, and you're listening to 83 weeks with Eric fish off. Eric, what's going on, man? How are you? I do fine, brother. I do just fine. Grateful for it. and having a great day. As you can see, not in Wyoming,

looking out the window, it's pretty obvious. I'm in a city. Yes, that'd be New York City. But it's been a great day. A lot of fun. We are excited to be here.

Of course, we are one week removed from the big debut of TNA on AMC. We're going to talk about that. We're going to talk about Stone Cold Steve Austin. We'll be talking about Tomaso Champa. We'll talk about Powerhouse Hobbs and AJ Styles. Oh my,

there's so much news to cover this week. But the big news, And I woke up to this morning and was so delighted to see is that you were in New York to announce some big news about Real American Freestyle. If folks weren't tuned in to Fox News today or Fox business, gets everybody up. What's the latest with RAF? Yeah, we, Fox announced this morning, Ashley, that we have extended our relationship.

I can't share the details. Fox is pretty particular about that. and they share the details of that information as they see fit. And I respect that. You have to respect your television partner's parameters. It's their rules. Whoever writes the check writes the rules, correct? But we couldn't have a better television partner.

Couldn't be more proud of what we've been able to accomplish. And let's be honest, you know, we've got a long way to go. But, man, we're so much farther ahead that I even optimistically thought we would be, you know, seven, eight months ago when this thing got off the ground. It's, it's really amazing. It is amazing. And what I'm enjoying watching just from afar as your friend is it felt like there was just a whole host of people who live in the internet wrestling community bubble.

They live in that pro wrestling universe. And they just immediately discounted this idea, this concept, this league. And now to hear, or I think you're posting. earlier today. It's had a new long-term commitment with Fox Nation and Real American Freestyle. Not saying we're ringing the dinner bell necessarily just yet.

There's still miles left to go. But boy, there's so many leagues that we've seen like this and various mixed martial arts and things like that. They come out with all these big grandiose plans. They run an event or two and then it just fizzles. That's not the story for Real American Freestyle. No, and look, we're so fortunate.

You know, Chad Bronstein, one of our partners along with Izzy Martinez, but Chad in particular, has done such an amazing job with the investment side of this and working with a great group of guys at Leflin Capital who specialize in, we'll call it niche sports or emerging sports. That's the, they're a VC fund that specializes in seeking out and funding and growing those opportunities. So we're fortunate in that we've got a funding partner that understands. the space in the sense that it's a new league, it's a sport, that's their interest. And it makes it so much easier.

And they've been unbelievable partners and brought in other great strategic assets that have really helped us collapse the timeline, so to speak. Jeremy Paddowar is a member of our board and has been very helpful in creating what would otherwise be opportunities that wouldn't come up for a year or two or three, right? again, helping to collapse the cycle so that as a business, we're firing out a lot more cylinders already than I thought we could be. Mike Johnson, a friend of the show from PW Insider, took to Twitter and said, they've done a great job building this into something.

The foundation is undeniable and the production has grown in leaps and bounds from show to show. Congrats to E. Bischoff and the Real American Freestyle team. I think that's pretty cool. You know, it's rare when you get someone in the internet wrestling community on the pro wrestling side to come out and acknowledge this. But it's cool that Mike Johnson has taken note of all the positive momentum that Real American Freestyle has. Yeah, a lot of respect for Mike Johnson, PW Insider, Dave Shear and that whole team because they've always been straight up with me. I mean, long before while I was still in WCW and afterwards, I've always been really straight up when it came to seeking out my side of a story or getting confirmation on a fact of something that I may have been involved with with regard

to a story they were writing. So I've always had a tremendous amount of respect and has grown into a friendship with Mike. In fact, Mike Johnson, interesting. It's kind of a sad tie-in in a way, but the morning that I found out that Hulk had passed, I was in Las Vegas. I was there to do some interviews and shoot some content for Real American Freestyle. I got a call from Mike Johnson. And Mike said, hey, there's something going on in Tampa involving Hulk. I'm not going to report on the information because I can't confirm it, but I thought you should know. And it was then that I said, wow, you know, this was really early in the morning.

It was like five in a morning or whatever it was in Las Vegas. And I got up and, of course, the news then broke and all of that. So Mike has always been such a straight-up guy. And he's the only, you know, sports entertainment pro wrestling guy that is covering us and writing about us. And I appreciate that. But going back to your earlier comment about so many of the Internet wrestling community, people being negative about it, in a way, I don't blame them. Because, you know, it's, look, it's not like others haven't tried to do what we're doing. But none of them have had the success we've already had.

And I think it's because collectively between Chad and his strengths and Izzy in a massive way in his strikes and mine as well in terms of delivering a television product, you know, we're convincing a lot of people that even within the amateur wrestling community didn't think we had a chance to make it. So it wasn't just the IWC that was negative because, again, so many people have tried and not been successful. This is the first time we've ever seen anything like what we're doing. Derek Kulich, friend of the show, tweeted out the amount of obstacles Real American Freestyle had to overcome to get to their first show would have stopped any other team or promotion. Congrats Eric Bischoff and Real American Freestyle for pushing through and making R.F. A huge success.

I wanted to give you a minute, Eric. I know that most of the people who are listening to this are tuning in to hear about pro wrestling, and we're going to get there in a minute. But sometimes when you're fortunate enough to be invited on some of these mainstream platforms. And I know you always have your partners, Chad and Izzy with you. But there's a lot of other people behind the scenes who work tirelessly to make this success possible and happen. And they don't usually have an opportunity to get their flowers. Because if you're on a television hit, maybe you've got six minutes or seven minutes and you've

got hardouts. I wanted to give you a minute to just acknowledge some of the real American freestyle superstars behind the scenes to really make the show possible and the success that's enjoyed. Well, there's already so many. I mean, we turned into a pretty big company pretty fast, but, you know, I'll start on the production side, the people that I work with most, other than Chadd-I-Nissie every day. You know, the first person I called, one of the first people I called was David Sahadi. And because I had worked with David, I knew that David was, you know, in that showrunner category, he had the right relationships that could help me put together the team that I was really looking for because I wanted to, this is a specialized kind of a project. and I had a specific vision in my head as to the way I wanted it to look and feel. And that required people that were familiar with that kind of production.

So I went to David. He brought us together with James Aubero, and James put together an amazing team. John Norton is our producer. We've got a great director. Evan Polisher of Atree Shows is the newest member of our team. It is coming on within a matter of days, I hope, for a week or two. as a line producer. Jessica Palombo is one of our field producers.

Does an amazing job. She worked for like seven years at WWE under Kevin Dunn. And subsequently went on to do a lot of work for UFC, who's now putting together these really cool packages along with David Sahadi. But the majority of them have been Jessica. On the kind of operational side, you know, Conrad Lisko, head of marketing, brilliant guy, very fun to work with, very positive, you know, full of ideas. is Tanya Stake-Coya, this is a really interesting relationship because when she first came in,

her and I were like this. She's kind of like we describe her as our air traffic controller. She keeps all the planes taking off and landing on time. But she's got a very strong personality. So guess how that went worse, someone like me, right? So it took a minute or week or so. And then as I find out, she's really the glue that holds all the little pieces together that usually people forget about. and helps keep it together.

So we've got, you know, Matt Jankowski does a great job selling tickets for us and really not just moving tickets and booking buildings, but really putting together some extensive data

that helps us really focus our marketing and do some pretty amazing things on social media. Shout out to the whole Real American Freestyle team. I'm really excited. One more, one more. I can't forget our buddy, Aunt Evans,

there's a lot of connective tissue here. Sometimes I first, forget. But Aunt Evans, our Sherpichuizman here at 83 weeks.com in a podcast seat, he manages all of our YouTube bidness over in that direction. Well, he's also managing the Real American Presetail YouTube channel, which, by the way, breaking news, there's a press release coming out soon, but we will be available. Our next event, which is taking place in February 28th in Arizona, Real American Freestyle 06, will be available internationally on our YouTube channel. We're to geoblock the U.S. So Fox Nation has the United States. We're doing the rest of the world

on our own. So people outside of the country will be able to check us out, which is a really big deal. Chad and Izzy are on their way Monday. I can't say where it's going to be surprised, but overseas. And we're going to have our first international event in May. Okay, wait a minute. You just crammed in a pretty major statement right there. Yeah, I know. It's been a busy day, bro. you know i've seen anytime i've posted about real american freestyle or i've seen a lot of your timeline there's a lot of comments from people who were saying hey we're a wrestling fan but we don't live in america we can't get the fox nation app how do we watch it does you just break right here

that the rest of the world's going to be able to see this on youtube starting next month yeah i probably should have done that because we've got a PR plan i hope aunt will forgive me for leaking this information here but i feel anybody that's been listening to me on this show for the six or seven years deserves us something a little extra. So if breaking some news is it, then, you know, so be it. But yeah, we'll be available internationally live. We'll be streaming live for the rest of the world to watch on our YouTube channel, Real American Freestyle Wrestling.

I better check that, but just Google Real American Freestyle on YouTube. Look it up on YouTube. You'll find us. I just can't believe it, man. That's awesome. I'm a big believer in YouTube. I think that YouTube business. the future and I'm so excited that you guys are embracing it, you know, for the rest of the world.

That's going to be awesome. And it's great news for amateur wrestling fans who were interested in what these guys are doing now that they're finished with college and maybe they're ready to make some doll hairs with real American freestyle. Again, that event's coming up just at about a month. You can go ahead and see all of the previous events by subscribing on the Fox Nation app. But if you're international coming your way at the end of the month, hey, real quick, before we get going on some of our pro wrestling talk, I want to talk about one of our great new

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Harry's Plus razor, one refined five-blade cartridge, a two-ounce foaming shave gel, and a travel cover to protect your blades on the go. Head on over. Right now to harries.com slash 83 weeks to claim this offer. And after you purchase, they're going to ask you where you heard about them. Please support our show and tell them we sent you. So, Eric, now that we've got some of the real American freestyle business under our belt. Yeah, about 20 minutes of it. There's a lot to talk about. It's a victory lap.

It should be celebrated. It is. I'm excited. Thanks. I want to ask you about some T&A news. I don't know if you saw this, but, and I don't think a lot of people are going to be surprised that you're familiar with this. But there's a hip-hop star named West Side Gun, who I know you're familiar with. And he tweeted out, I think I want to buy T&A.

and make it super culture. Give it the fourth rope energy, the hashtag forbidden door principles. I'm the curator of curators, especially now that it's on TV weekly. You know what I can do with that kind of exposure. Now, West Side Gun, we know, is a long-time wrestling fan. You've probably seen him at a lot of different AEW or TNA or WWE event sitting

front row. I think he was even front row last night at Dynamite. But you actually have a longer history with West Side Gun that maybe some of our listeners even know about, right? Yeah, I can't remember the name of the song, but there was a, he had a rap song that came out. I don't know. I had to have been eight years ago or more. But I was, you know, EZE, the character was my version of EZE, not the hip-hop version, a rap version of EZE, but the original version.

But yeah, somehow I got weaved into one of his songs and I had it on my playlist for quite a while. I was quite proud of it. He seems like a massive wrestling fan. So I'm not surprised. I think the name of the show is George, or the name of the song is George Bondo. And there's a line in there. He says,

I'm impacting the culture like Eric Bischoff. I don't know why, but that makes me happy. I kind of like the idea. I know that a lot of people in the internet wrestling community are going to kind of roll their eyes and say, oh yeah, like a rapper is going to buy TNA.

Legitimately, if there really was a, um, a for the culture promotion, I'm going to say, primarily minority featured wrestling. Like there's been a big movement for inclusion. And there's been a lot of people who aren't happy with,

you know, this person's not getting the right push or there's not enough representation there. Boy, if we just went and we made like a hip hop wrestling, I could totally see that working here. From a sponsorship standpoint, from a, I mean,

think about this. One of the things I as a wrestling fan liked way back in the day in ECW, say, they just played whatever music they wanted. damn the licenses and doing the things the right way. Let's just play mainstream music. West Side gun could do that. Like the idea that you could combine music and wrestling,

I would love to see that, Eric. What's say you? Absolutely. I've actually been pitched that idea and asked my opinion as to how viable it might be. This was going back to 2019 because I was still in, I was living in Stanford at the time. I think with the right vision, the right people doing it, I think West Side could be easily as one of them.

I think it could be really, really viable and fun and different than just as fun as. I think it's a sweet spot if someone were to really focus. on the how of it and approach it as a business and not just a passion. I think it would be awesome. Sign me up. I'm sold. I don't think we're the right guys for it, dude, but whatever. I'm not saying we're going to do it.

I'm saying I'm going to subscribe. I'm watching that show. It would be fun to do because there's just so much opportunity there. You know, I feel about an opportunity. It's here. You don't want to pass those up. So I hope it happens. I hope I said I got serious about it because there's others out there.

There's other people out there that are thinking the same thing in that same world that could bring their experience and their success from the music industry and their relationships. Because many of the relationships now are so similar. There's so many, just from an operational point of view, there's so much parallel now between music and any other form of entertainment that I think it wouldn't be as tough of a transition as maybe it would have been 15 years ago for somebody to go from music to television now it's all just entertainment i love the idea i hope it happens i think it would be hugely successful i think it will

eventually happen i mean it makes all the sense in the world um you know master master p came to me with that idea i was i met him in new york and he laid it out to me i'm surprised he didn't do it. You know, and it wasn't like he was there to talk to me about a job or anything like that because I was at WWE at the time, but he just wanted to pick my brain. And I thought for sure he was going to do it. But for whatever reason, he didn't. It's going to happen.

Man, sign me up. I can't wait to see it. I think it would be so, and I think you nailed it different than. And what I appreciate is very seldom do we see someone try to do something different than. Do you remember Wrestling Society X back in the day on MTV? Did you ever catch any of that? I think I may have caught an episode or two, but it was not my thing. What about Lucha Underground?

That was a little different then. What did you think of that presentation? I interviewed for a job there. Really? They brought me in. Mark Burnett was producing that originally. And they brought me in, not as a talent. They brought me into talk about being a part of their executive team.

it didn't go anywhere, obviously. I was kind of interested, only interested because of Burnett's participation. Because I had come close to working with Mark a time or two before really close, once on a NASCAR project that fell apart the very last second. But I was excited about that. And the concept is they explained it to me. This was obviously early on before they aired their first episode, probably three months before anybody saw anything.

the way the project was described to me at least was really interesting because it was so different. I know that once upon a time we're talking about different than you and I had a series of conversations about something you had seen years ago in Las Vegas and it was sort of blending burlesque and wrestling. Tell us about that. Say that one again. I'm sorry. Burlesque and wrestling in Las Vegas. There was a concept that you had heard about or participated in in Los Angeles. Oh, oh, no.

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, you threw me a little bit. There's a, it was more of a lucha thing. It was a lucha meets burlesque and lucha va voom. Yes. Actually. And luch of a boom, it was a show that took place. I don't know if they owned the bar or not the nightclub, but it was a really, really popular show that kind of combined. You could have less, but a lot of the, a lot of, there were Lucha matches that were going on,

and then there'd be dancers going on. And it was all Lucha themed, very Hispanic feel to it and an audience composition. And what I wanted to do, this is back when the Maloof brothers, I don't know if you remember the Maloof. Oh, yeah. Yeah. They were major players. They had a course distributorship in Las Vegas. They also owned the Palms Hotel and Casino.

And the Kings, the Sacramento Kings, the NBA thing. Yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. And they were very much into entertainment. And I approached them because we had done some business with them and Jason and I. And I approached them with the idea of kind of a luch of a voom, luchador nightly show, like, you know, maybe Friday, Saturday, Saturday, Saturday, or Saturday, or Friday, whatever. But a residence there for that show. And you couldn't really get the luch of a voom people all on the same page where like a lot of different people. people that had to agree like there's three or four different partners. It was just really hard to kind of wrangle those cats, so to speak, get them all thinking along the same line. So eventually it just kind of lost life and energy, but it was a good idea.

We love different than here on the program. I'm looking forward to seeing what can be different than in wrestling. We got our fingers crossed for West Side Gun. I think it could be really, really fun. I want to shift gears here, Eric, and ask you about, I don't know if you saw this or not, but Mark Mero posted something. I guess it happened last night.

And it was about WWE royalties. And I know you've touched on this before talking about royalties. So I want to get your take on it. So I want you to at least be thinking about how those have changed through the years. But first, I want to brag about our friends over at Mars Men. You know, it's something that we all learned about in school.

You know, we hit 34, or I guess none of us learned. about it in school. I mean, we know what testosterone is, but then we hit like our mid-30s and all a sudden everything feels harder. Not just going to the gym, but like everything. The same diet, it feels like it's not working as well. Maybe you start putting on some LBs. Maybe your energy starts to crash in the afternoon. Naturally, you start to get down the rabbit hole and thinking about testosterone. Well, doctors act like TRT is no big deal. Just get weekly shots every week for the rest

of your life. But the deeper you dive into this, the more you realize what you're signing up for is three grand a year to shut down your body's natural production forever. To me and Eric, that seems kind of terrifying. So going into the new year, a lot of us men are turning back the clock and making things easier on our body the natural way. I'm talking about Mars men. Now, this is a potent and natural testosterone stack that optimizes your body's ability to to forge usable testosterone. And this is why it's better than TRT. Mars Ben is going to give you the same benefits of optimized testosterone.

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What you'll talk about is just feeling the difference. You'll feel more consistent energy. If you're working out, you're going to feel like you're stronger in your lips. You're going to have better focus at work. For me, it's steady drive all day. Not the quick spike you might get from caffeine or injections. I'm a big believer in this product. I know Eric is.

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way to kick the new year off strong that's men go to mars dot com for 50% off and three free gifts when you check out. After you purchase, they're going to ask you where you heard about them. Please support our show and tell them we sent you. So, Eric, let's talk about Mark Merrow here because this is something that I myself had never seen. But Mark wrote a Twitter post and posted two images. He wrote, I've been asked many times what wrestlers actually making royalties from the WWE. So let me give you a real example. I left the WWE years ago and more than 20 years later in 2019,

I came across an old royalty statement. When you look at how much money many wrestlers help generate versus how little they're actually paid is honestly hard to believe. On this statement, even after being out of wrestling for over two decades, I was still partly responsible for $39,590.81 in revenue. My royalty payment for that? $71 and $47. That's the reality of a lot of wrestlers. We help build the brand, the characters, and the moments fans still watch today,

but the compensation rarely reflects the value that was created. Now, this is from Mark Mero, just last night as we're talking here today. And I know that you've been a part of this system for a long time. And I want to talk about how maybe it's changed for the better or the worst. Because I think, I don't know what the future royalties of this current crop of superstars are going to look like. I think everyone is delighted that they're all making more money than ever because there's quote unquote guaranteed money. I don't know what the future looks like. But, you know, our buddy Kevin Nash, he's made a King's Ransom on NWO merch

years after he was finished, you know, sporting NWO March on TV. Can you talk to us about WWE royalties and what your experience has been like with those? Happy to. First, a little context. I've never had a royalty deal before. I got one when I first went to WWE in whatever year that was, 2002. 23 years ago, wow, it was hard to believe. Almost a quarter of a century ago.

So I had never had a deal that paid me any kind of royalties on anything. I never got any royalties in WCW for anything, even though I was on camera and there were cards and there were toys and there were video games. I never received a nickel because it was not part of my compensation package. I made all my money in salary and stock options, quite a few of them actually. that paid off very, very well. But I didn't get any royalties. And I'm sympathetic in a way with Mark, but I'm also realistic.

I don't know what Mark's guarantee was. Maybe you do. I think he disclosed it not long ago. I just don't remember a couple days ago. But I just don't remember what I saw. So I don't want to throw a number out there if I'm wrong. But it was a substantial guarantee. And it came with a 50,000.

thousand dollar advance. Actually, that's one of the things that Mark disclosed on social media. Otherwise, I wouldn't have disclosed it. You have to take that into consideration. It's your overall compensation. Now, if Mark Merrill was working on a minimum deal that only paid him $1,000 a month, but was able to negotiate a higher percentage of merchandise because he believed in his own marketability and merchandise future from a revenue perspective,

sure Mark could have negotiated that with Vince McMahon. Vince McMahon probably would have liked to roll those nice just to see what would happen. I would. I don't mean to cut you off, but I want to make sure you have the context. Mark has revealed that contract because he's actually trying to sell it. He's decided as a new phase of life, he recently got married.

We want to congratulate. I think that's cool, by the way. Absolutely. He's purging himself of his old memorabilia room. He had like a shrine to his athletic endeavors and his time in, in the wrestling world, but he's just decided, hey, let's get rid of all this stuff, and let's close the chapter and let's move on.

And I think that's cool. But one of the things he has is the original offer and contract signed by Linda McMahon. So it is kind of a cool collectible. And a lot of people point and say, hey, that may have been the first guaranteed money contract in WWF history. Now, that happened in 1996. You'll be reminded that that's on the heels, of course, of Scott Hall and Kevin Nash, leaving the company because they couldn't get a guaranteed contract.

they went down to WCW, the NWO was born. Vince thought, maybe I do need to start playing ball here. And he offered a guaranteeing contract to Mark Mero for $350,000 with a $50,000 signing bonus. Now, that contract was pretty controversial, even with guys like Mick Foley and Stone Cold Steve Austin, who both wrote about in their books that they held that against Mark Mero because they themselves were not offered that same guaranteed contract. and they were upset with Mark Mero and later they both admit, boy, that was stupid. I should have been upset with WBE or upset with myself.

He negotiated better than me. That's all there was to it. And I think he even had an agent. So Mark was ahead of his time in negotiating and getting a good deal for himself. But in 1996, a $350,000 offer was pretty damn strong money. Wouldn't you agree? Well, 400 if it was a signing bonus. Sure.

Absolutely. And $250 thereafter. So, yes, do the math. What is that in today's dollars? I don't know. I'm not going to do the math in my head. But it's $700,000. Yeah, it's a lot of money.

Yes. So for me, I would look at, from my perspective, I just look at that. You know, I still get bonus or royalty checks once a quarter. And sometimes I go, wow, that's great. Let's go out and get a pizza. And sometimes I go, holy smokes. Didn't see that one coming. And to me, it's all.

all just gravy. I forget. Every time I get a quarterly royalty check, I forget that it's coming because I don't think about it. So I guess it all depends on what your expectations. That's my long-winded way of saying, you know, what were your expectations going into this deal? And if you believe in yourself and you wanted more merchandise money 20 years later, you should have negotiated for it on the front end. But Mark was smart. He wanted the cash. He made the right decision, by the way. But what do you expect? you're going to be getting on top of that $20,000 royalty checks, $50,000 royalty checks. At some point, you've got to think of it from an operational point of view, too, because

a company's got to make money. Well, I appreciate you saying that, because not only does the company have to make money, but he actually showed page two, and you could see there was like a breakdown of a, you know, you were featured in this DVD or you were featured in that DVD. But if you take a look, some of the things that are listed are like the Rock and, you know, the Owen Hart. And don't get me wrong, some of the things like Monday night, you know, volume two and Monday Night Wars, okay, certainly.

But respectfully, it's not like they were selling Mark Morrow DVDs. Yes, he was featured on the other ones, but I'm just saying, I think that is a differentiator. Because again, I don't pretend to know all the intricacies of how all this works, but I have a feeling that like a guy like Stone Cold, who does have his own DVDs that come out, his royalty is going to look different than. Well, and there's a formula, and I don't know it.

Like, I get those same royalty statements to this day, and I don't even look at them. I mean, look at which category I'm making the most money in just to see if it's changing it all, more curious than anything. But beyond that, I don't look at how much I make off a video or anything like that. Because the formula is so complex. You, you know, I could show up in, you know, a 20, 10 seconds. of a 90-minute video on the rock. Maybe there's a clip of something I did

and I'm there with Hogan. Okay, I'm going to get, you know, 20, 30, 40, maybe even 50 cents out of that. You know, it shows up, but, you know, nobody's buying that video because there's 20 seconds of me in it. I'm just getting paid according to a very complicated, complicated formula that I couldn't begin to understand or explain. I think a lot of people are going to use this,

talking point in discussion, Eric, to bring up unions and wrestling. And I've heard all the pros and cons, but I don't know that there's necessarily a right or a wrong answer. I mean, I've had private conversations with some tippy type guys in wrestling who say, no chance. I don't want any part of it. I've talked to other guys who say, man, we should have been doing this a long time ago. Do you think if there were union representation for wrestling, that royalties would be a big factor

and all that because that does feel like that would be near the top of the list to me. It would be a mess. I hope it never happens. It's one of those things that sounds so wonderful, so fair, so equitable, provides so much security. And I get it. I want those things. I desperately want those things.

At this stage of my life, I need those things. I want those things for my family when I'm not here to provide it for them. But I got to go out. work for it. I got to make it happen. Nobody's going to give it to me. And here's what what did I mean by that. If you, first of all, I think I'm only hesitating because I don't want to, sometimes I exaggerate to make a point that it comes off wrong. I think there's been multiple times in recent wrestling television history. Let's go back to, let's go back to, let's go back to

let's go back to the steroid trial. I think even after, you know, Vince got through that trial, WW, we got through that mass, there was a long period of time where they were not making money. They were losing money. They were hemorrhaging money. And if wrestling would have been unionized at that point, Vince would have not, he barely held it together as it was.

he would not have been able to hold it together had they been unionized. The expenses would have been too high, would have been too difficult to manage. That was one time where that union could have likely killed, not by itself, obviously, but it would have really made it difficult or next to impossible for Vince to crawl out of the pit that he was in for a couple of years after the serial right trial. I think that transition right before WWE went public, that could have had a detriment to the business because the numbers would have been nearly as exciting. The opportunity for WWE to go public

would have been mitigated dramatically if they had been unionized because of the expense side of the equation. So it sounds great, but you've got to realize, that one of the reasons of professional wrestling has been a staple since the beginning of freaking television time, wrestling has been consistently performing and making money for the people producing it, sometimes more, sometimes less. But the reason is because it's very inexpensive programming to produce. Very inexpensive, compared to script, unionized. And it's not just the union, And it's the time, the nature of scripted production and the time it takes to do it.

But wrestling has always been able to survive even the toughest times because it's relatively speaking very inexpensive programming. And I think a minute it becomes expensive programming, just like your drama series and other unionized product, you run the risk of collapsing under your own weight. be interesting to see what changes, if any, are still to come in wrestling with TKO and it feels like, you know, every day we turn around, there's a new change legislatively or politically. So it's an ever-evolving climate, but it is interesting to see a guy like Mark Merro, who's usually so positive and speak so warm and lovingly about his relationship with wrestling and WWE.

I think he feels strongly that he should have been compensated differently. We want to know what you guys think. Should the royalties be revisited? Do you think the WWE does a good job taking care of their legends? Let us know in the comments below right here on YouTube. I would love to be able to hear from you about that. I also want to ask you if you've had a chance to see, and I know that you've been running all over the place.

WWE has posted season two of unreal earlier this week. Now as a reminder, this is the backstage show that shows us, you know, how the sausage is made in WWE, so to speak. And there's a lot of people who were not happy about things they saw. There's a lot of chatter online, which was probably by design. I myself did not enjoy season two as much as I did season one. I felt like sometimes we were getting the unvarnished truth. in season one, maybe a little bit.

But boy, it feels like this is just another layer in an extension of Monday Night Raw or Smackdown. Have you had a chance to see it? And what did you think? I don't. I just don't have time to watch it. It's not that I'm not interested or anything like that.

I just don't have the time to watch it. But I've seen, you know, a lot of the comments. And I've talked to some of the people that are involved on camera in that show. And it's an awkward show. It's, look, you can say, whatever you want. You know, when you sit, when you're part of something like that, you're on camera,

right? You're part of that show. They'll tell you, look, these cameras are going to be up here in a car and you'll forget all about them and just go about your business. You don't forget those cameras are on. You're second guessing everything that you're saying and you're either saying it for a purpose because you're thinking about it or you're not sure you should say it because there's cameras rolling. So say what you want. It's really, really difficult as a producer. to get people to be honest about something like the creative process, which is you got to be careful what you're saying. You know, I'll speak for myself.

When I'm in that zone, when I'm in that creative zone and we're working on ideas, I'll say things, again, to exaggerate a point that if I said it out in public, it would probably be inappropriate. You know, and I'm not talking about anything, you know, that would get me canceled. But I'm just the way I express myself. I do that sometimes on the show and I regret it. I hear back comments that I've made to go, oh, man, what were you doing? He didn't have to say it like that.

But it's awkward when there's cameras rolling and your peers are watching. Some of the, you know, talent is watching. So you're obviously going to be cautious and hesitant about what you say. So I'm not surprised at your reaction or other people's reaction if that's the vibe. But just keep in mind. You're going to get some real stuff in here and you're going to get some stuff that is there for a reason. Well, the thing that I feel like is unfair, and I'll admit, you and I are biased. We both like Road Dog.

And he's been getting just blown up online this week about a couple of things. But one thing in particular was he was advocating that perhaps Chelsea Green should win the United States title back from Zelina Vega. And Triple H, who's running the meeting, I believe, said something along the lines of, yeah, but then who does she work with? Because she's just beating everybody on that side. And again, I know that a lot of our listeners, myself included,

we never really have to think about a storytelling perspective. Think about the heart part. You have to have a list of baby faces and heels. And it's like, okay, if we go back, now who are her challenger is going to be. And if it's just retreads of stuff we just did two weeks ago,

we probably do feel like we need to present something new. and when Triple H was like, who does she work with? Apparently, Road Dog said, as I remember it, this is from the best of my recollection, I don't have the quote in front of me. He said something along the lines of, I see what you're saying. I don't like it,

but I agree. And the internet is like, that's your job. How could you not have an idea? And it's like, guys, do you know how out of context that is? That was one conversation in one meeting

over the course of 40 hours of meetings that one week and they have to take a sit you're not going to see all of the meetings in every minute we didn't even see all of that meeting we saw a one or two minute clip and now people have drawn conclusions that oh road dog's not creative he couldn't come up with new opponents wait a minute what he was advocating that they should put the belt on her and when they pushed back you're like well he didn't have any ready made idea that's that's what that's like a know you know even at real american freestyle we're like oh we should do a reality show we should do a reality show we should do a reality show yet, you know. I mean, yeah, they do like watching train wrecks, but let's not let them watch

this one quite yet. But because you do see, you know, first of all, you see what, you know, how people's real reactions are. But here's, now I haven't seen the clip portion of the show that you're describing, but I can picture it as you describe it to me. And here's what I would suggest to support what you just said is also you've got the edit process. You've got editors whose job it is to try to create and manage conflict and drama throughout a show. So they edit accordingly. And that just takes a comment like Road Dog made and makes it sometimes even more out of context, right?

Because you're not seeing, as you pointed out, the whole story, as it had been discussed for 20 minutes before that soundbite. Yes. You can't win. You just can't win. I hope you're going to get big kick out of being on TV and telling your friends and family that they can watch you on TV because it's how you're going to get out of it. The rest of it's going to be really frustrating and not much fun. Well, it's not like here's the other thing too.

I doubt for a second that road dog is getting any additional pay for there being a camera. No. And now people are going to hang that on him. And the other thing, our friend Bruce, he said, hey guys, we've already announced Goonther and Pat McAfee. I'm freestyle. This isn't word for word, but it's close. I mean, we could just have Gunther just steamroll him and beat him

and that's it. So it's implied, but, and now the internet has jumped on, oh my God, you wanted Pat to beat Gunther? He didn't say that. He was just saying, hey, this is pretty predictable. If this is what we do, what should we do here? Right. Is there a surprise? But just the way he left it open ended,

now people are all over Bruce like, I can't believe he suggested. That's not exactly what he said. Here's the other thing. You've now you've got to also know the people that are, you know, because in the context of them communicating with each other, we're, you know, we're the fly on the wall watching these people talk, right? Presumably. And you also got to know that personality, you know, Vince, or Vince, Bruce's style of making a point where mine is to sometimes exaggerate. Bruce's is sometimes to use really dry humor to get you to think about what you just said, you know. And that's another opportunity for someone like Bruce who's just going to go. He'll try to forget the cameras.

But his way of communicating can be off-putting if you don't know Bruce. I just think it's unfair that people have been so critical of some of these talking heads. And there's one more thing I want to ask you about a producer. And then we'll move on. Michael Hayes and Bruce Richard both hate praise on. Chelsea Green. And I'm sure you would too. One of the best characters in television, she hits a home run every time, universally

loved and respected by her peers, by the office. You never hear anybody say an unkind word about her. However, Michael Hayes said something like, you can't put Chelsea Green in a category like a Rio Ripley or a Charlotte Flair.

She is not at that level. She gets the ladies ready for that level. That's her role. And a lot of people are offended by that. And a lot of people are saying, no, she should be the top star. And I feel like those people, as much as I love them for it, they're wearing that saying a fan hat, I feel like Eric,

because if you're putting a show together, and again, I've never done this. But you do need someone to help bring those people up. And I mean this in the most positive way possible. Mr. Perfect was that once upon a time for the WWF. So was Rick Rood. More recently, so was Dawson. Ziegler. Everyone listening to this knows how great and incredible they were at their jobs, but everyone can't be champion. That's not the way it works. You need some people who are

talented enough to elevate that person. I'm not, no disparaging Jake Cargill at all. But I think most people would agree, Chelsea Green's probably more entertaining to watch on TV than Jake Cargill. But I think a lot of people assume, well, they're going to put Jade card deal in the title situation. Chelsea Green could maybe help her get there, but that doesn't mean that one is more talented than another. As a reminder, everybody's on guaranteed money.

So it's not like whoever's champion makes more money. I think people get lost in the fact that, I hate to say it this way, it's a fucking TV show. They get lost in their fandom. Everybody on the Sopranos can't be Tony. There's a main character. Somebody's going to be.

get shot. That's just the way it is. Nobody's going to get, never you're going to pick a bullet. Yes. There's, there's the star, and then there's the buddy, and then there's the villain. By the way, they're all making, you know, as much as they can, but it's, who cares? But they're really after Michael Hayes saying, I can't believe he's talking about Chelsea Green that way. And if this were a legitimate athletic competition, I would agree with you. But it's a fucking TV show, Eric, am I wrong? Now you're not wrong, but it's, it's funny to me. And again, I'll come to

Michael's defense, and again, you know, context is king. I think we coined that here. I've got a T-shirt to prove it. Chelsea may not be ready for that spy yet. You know, the only thing worse than not pushing someone when they think they're ready is pushing them before they really are, even if they think they are. Because that's when people get hurt. That's when people expose themselves a little bit and expose in the sense of, you know, not really quat. being there. You get that spotlight and it's really easy to start finding flaws. And if I'm

Chelsea and I heard those comments, I'd be excited. If my job is to get people ready, I'm going to get really good at that job. Because guess what? Eventually, somebody's going to be doing that for me. I mean, that's part of the business. It's part of the evolution of being a great talent. And I'm sure people will be able to point out others who have been kind of thrown into the mix, but how many of those people ever stay there? Not long. If they get in too early, here's the flip side. And this is one of the things I really admire. Amir is not the right word. Respect in terms of the way WWE does business. Bronbreaker is a perfect example. You could have argued justifiably that he was ready for primetime serious focus, top of

card two years ago. He could have done it. But is it not better to let him continue to build equity with that audience to the point where the audience is now demanding that we see more a brawl breaker, making the audience. I used to tell us to people all the time. And I've used this on one particular business partner in a past, no longer in business together, but still friends, is sometimes it's better.

for other people to put you over than it is to put yourself over, even though wrestlers believe, oh, you got to get yourself over. That's what you're taught, right? You've got to get yourself over. But the real art is getting the audience to put you over first. And in a way, that's what WWE does, I think, by the way they hold back people. L.A. Knight's another example. Now, there may be other stuff going on there.

They're probably unlikely there is. In fact, it would be unlikely that there isn't. but I think there's another example of a guy who's he's there. They can pull the trigger on him pretty much anytime they need or want to. And maybe Chelsea's in that same role. Maybe she's not quite ready yet to be in that Charlotte position. But she will be and she can be because they think enough of her and her abilities to help others. So I don't know.

I think it's a compliment that I have a weird outlook. All right. So Eric, one of the things I wanted to ask you about, was Ron Killings. His release and then rehiring was heavily discussed on the Unreal series. And of course, you'll remember this time last year, I forget what month it was.

I guess it was the summer. There was a huge movement when it was announced that after what feels like forever, Ron Killings was no longer with WWE. Fans were chanting, we want truth. I mean, it was a whole happening last summer.

I remember. And then when they brought him back, it was a huge surprise. Everybody was really happy and of course they haven't done fuck all with him since. But the triple H was looking right down the barrel of the camera on Unreal. And he said, you know, despite rumors to the contrary and of course, I'm freestyling. Ron was never not under contract with us. He was under contract the entire time. And we got to a place where we couldn't agree on money.

Again, I'm freestiling. This isn't verbatim exactly what he said. But in an effort to hopefully get him. him to come closer to our number, we just said, hey, well, we're not going to renew you. And we assumed by doing that, he would come to the table, maybe lower his number, we could, we could come to terms on a new number and be more agreeable to move forward. That didn't happen. Instead, Triple H says something like, and then he went and tweeted, almost like, I can't

believe he did that. He drew attention to the fact that he, he was fired. But Triple H was pretty pointed in saying he was not. ever fired. He was under contract to us the entire time. And they did show some really nice interview footage with Ron Killings talking about his meeting with Nick Conn and how great that went. And you got to see some real interaction with Triple H and Ron sort of bearing the hatchet after he returned. But now there's been this discourse about what was real and what wasn't real. Is, are we getting the truth from, from Triple H or is it spin? Well, it turns out Ron went on

breakfast club and said this. Let me ask you this then. I got the call. I got my agent working on this end with their agent. I'm supposed to stay out of that, right? Let them handle that thing. I get a call from this side saying, we're not going to renew your contract or however it was. So do I come to work? It's Sunday. Next Sunday my contract would be ending. So do I come to work? No, don't come to work. Oh, okay. Am I done? Yes. There was no flight. no calendar. What do you call that? It felt like a firing to me. Now, it does feel like

we're splitting hairs here a little bit, but the internet, of course, we need to know all the gory details, all the juicy details. Where do you land on this? They were negotiating. Ron jumped the gun. It's an amateur move. I like Ron. Is what it is. But guess what?

Here's the little piece that came in at the end that I didn't know at the front end of this discourse, is there were agents involved. Hmm. things are going to get effed up when you get your agents involved it's unfortunate i believe paul in this case i don't dog in a hunt sadly paul and i are friends you know we're i mean we're friendly right but we don't hang out i'm going to christmas card no that stuff but i absolutely believe him and i and i believe him because similar things have happened to me in the past

When you're dealing with agents, you're in a negotiation, it sounds to me like they had to make a point. Here's the point. We're not going to renew your contract at the current rate. We can't afford you, which is a valid point. At some point, you've just got to look at talent, how often you use them, how you can use them, when you can use them and all that. The audience's reaction to them. There's ways to kind of get a feel for that, right? And sometimes, you know, when you've got an older talent, you're just not using them as much.

You can't afford to pay them as much. It's just a fact of life. And I'm sure because there was an agent involved, we're going to play hardball. They played hardball. He's Ron's agent, I'm guessing. And they're playing hardball with a guy from Hollywood that negotiates deals, massive deals. That was stupid as an agent for overshooting. And they probably called their bluff.

And that's where things fell apart. Because Ron probably got the word, as he said, I believe Ron too. There's no reason for him to twist that stuff around. I could see how it happened. It's really unfortunate. My only thought is, if there's anybody listening to this, just don't tweet right away. You know, give yourself 48 hours to process things

before you'd make any, you know, decisions like that because you're making, you're reacting out of emotion and frustration, nine times out of ten that's going to work against you. This is unfortunately one of those cases. But I don't think anybody's lying. I think they're both telling the truth, but the devil is in the details. And the details in this case is how is that communicated by whom and is the first word. And I think when there's an agent involved, it gets a lot trickier.

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Chime card on time payment history may have a positive impact on your credit score. Results may vary. See chime.com for details and applicable terms. It's time for the wrestling news update with Raj Geary. Rise, there's so much news to talk about. They've got so much going on, but I want to start right at the top. We are recording on Thursday afternoon, just a couple hours before TNA on AMC returns for episode two. But last week, we were live late on a Thursday night, breaking it down, the good, the bad, and the ugly. and we freestyled what we thought the rating would be.

As a reminder, Raj, you picked 260 to 270K, I think. Eric, I think you using AI, freestalled maybe 350, 400. Raj, what did the real number come in at?

Yeah, so it ended up being 173,000 viewers with a 0.04 in the demo. And so it's lower than most of the estimates I saw online with people, you know, guessing. And, yeah, that's for week one. And usually you see, you know, 30 to 40% drop in week two. So, yeah, and not exactly the best number for that premiere. Eric, give me your take.

You were thinking last week, AEW was maybe in the crosshairs, maybe TNA could be the second biggest promotion that they could climb that mountain and you were predicting a rating, but, man, it was ugly, like half of what you originally thought. What do you think of that number, Eric? I think the number is obviously disappointing. I still think that TNA is in a position to challenge AEW for a number one position in terms of television viewing, not in terms of overall business, as I said last week. But, man, they got a lot more work to do that I thought. Now, I didn't see the pay-per-view.

I heard good things about it. Hopefully they buttoned things up. But I've also heard about 20 minutes before I went online to do the show with you that this week's show is plagued with some of the same visa issues as last week's show. I think they're shooting in New Mexico and they've got talent. They can't make it in. So they basically are going to have the same problem this week in terms of a rewrite and scrambling at the last minute if what I'm reading is true. Now, maybe it's not true,

and I'm going to sound like a jackass, but that disclaimer aside, if it's true, it's just, it's really going to be it hard. They're going to have to figure out how to produce a television show. No offense, pay-per-views are a lot easier. You don't have commercial breaks. You don't have specific time you've got to hit. There's a lot of variables that comes with a live television show that you don't have to do with on a pay-per-view. So let's hope they can get their creative thing together as well as definitely the production and the format. Because the format was abysmal. No excuse for that.

Other than, you know, they had to rewrite the show at the last minute. So I did give them some grace. But the number, obviously disappointing. I don't even venture to guess what this. You know, the number in the demo was pretty good. That was respect. but the total viewership wasn't. And I'm really surprised that there wasn't just more of a general wrestling audience

because of the awareness of social media and all that. Certainly not because of anything AMC did because I don't think they really did anything to promote the show outside of minimal social media stuff. Obviously, they've got to be disappointed. They've got a big climb. We're going to have to get it together. Here's the thing.

I want to say this. I promise I'll shut up. I don't mean a filibuster. But I thought about this last week. And TNA right now under its current ownership is in a similar position as TNA was when I was there with Halk. And Viacom, Spike TV had just lost UFC. That was a moment in time when, because of conversations I had with executives at Viacom, there was strong interest in acquiring equity and ownership in TNA.

TNA didn't want to even have the conversation because they didn't want to share the books. They didn't want to have to have a partner that they were accountable to for whatever reason. They just didn't want to share their books, which is a valid business reason. I get that. Not suggesting there was anything nefarious going on. What I am suggesting is there was a unique opportunity. And one of the issues that I was so disappointed in my time in TNA, it wasn't because of anything that happened while I was in TNA, other than I couldn't convince

anybody in TNA that ultimately made the decisions. It wasn't Dixie to invest in their own product, i.e. going live. I got everybody excited about it. Spike was offsetting some of the expense. We went out. We put 1,500 people in the arena or 1,800, whatever the numbers were out. Somebody tell me, I'll pull a shit, I don't care. Whatever the number was, it was working. But I also told them it's not going to happen overnight. You're going to have to build it up so that you can become a.

a legitimate touring company. So you can have licensing commercial. You can have all that stuff, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. Couldn't get them to do it. Year, year and a half later, their relationship is over with. That was a unique opportunity. I think right now TNA is at a similar crossroads in the sense that they're going to have to invest in themselves.

If they want to be number two, if they want to be a viable company, if they want to be acquired by TKO at some point, evidently that's in an agreement as an option, that you've got to build some value in yourself and you're going to have to invest in your own company, whether it's production, whether it's bringing in additional staff, whatever it is, this is a unique point in time because if you blow this TNA, Carlos, if you're listening, and I mean this with respect because I want you to succeed, this is the time that you have to invest in yourself because if you wait another six months or seven months, you will have lost the audience that wants you to succeed or at least a good portion.

So, Raj, let me ask you. How do you take the rating? You know, we know what happened last week, 173. We all predicted week two would probably fall off a cliff. What do you think is realistic for tonight's rating, Raj? Well, I mean, when we used to get numbers for access, you know, they do about a 0.01 under 100,000 viewers. But you're now in like almost twice as many homes. So you would think that they'd beat those access numbers.

But, I mean, if they do have that big 40% drop, then you're getting close to that, you know, 0.02 range, which is, you know, which is pretty low. And it's under the ANC station average. But, you know, on the plus side, they did beat the last collision that we have numbers for. That collision did. Oh, no. That's much of a win, bro. You're right. Yeah.

But it's something. and it's something. But yeah, so, you know, hopefully they can build from there last, you know, last week's show, obviously not a success, you know, and, you know, hopefully they can turn things around creatively and then just keep building week to week. And, you know, kind of get those fans back that might have tuned in last week, and like what they see and are done. So, yeah, we'll see.

But I'm guessing probably like a 0.02 for tonight's episode. So you're going to guess if we're saying a number that's 100,000, less than 100,000? What do you think? Yeah, probably like around 100,000, maybe 110, so something, something in there. I'd be shocked if they got 110. Eric, what do you think? I'm still going to be, I'm going to be a little more optimistic. I'm going to, I'm a 125.

I think there's going to be, here's an unfortunate truth. I think they got more PR over the last seven days and they did previously going into this. Yeah. So I think if I'm working here right now, here's what I'm saying to myself. I'm saying self, what are people, when you're driving down a highway and there's a wreck on the other side of the road, everybody stops it looks. This is my that. I think people are going to tune in this way just to see if it was as bad as everybody said. that it was last week or to see if it's improved.

I think there will actually be a tune-in factor, whether you're cheering them on or not. I think there's going to be a tune-in factor to see for yourself what they do this week. So I don't think they're going to get hurt quite as much as Raj does, but based on my prediction last week, I wouldn't listen to me if I were you.

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It's going to be interesting to see how it shakes out. I appreciate what you said there, Eric, about, hey, I almost one or do you lean into it? Do you market it a little bit? Like, you know, the worst wrestling show of all time. I don't know if I go that far. Obviously,

I'm being tongue in cheek, but I'm saying it does remind me of like Tim Robinson level comedy where, you know, it felt like there was some secondhand embarrassment for last week's show. Booker T said this. I got the same sentiment as a lot of other people

as far as it could have been shot a little bit different. I don't know if some of the shots were done earlier in the day when this is a big night, but it was a lot of commercials, three matches. So it definitely seemed like an infomercial a little bit for the new spot on AMC, which I understand that as well. A couple of guys had visa issues like Leon Slater, nothing you can do about that. Those issues can happen and you think you can fix them and you just can't and time runs out.

But directing is something that I think a wrestling show needs. And that director has to be the guy that's accountable for a lot of stuff that goes on in that show, literally. Because that part of the show right there, Only one person is going to be in charge of that, trying to put all that together and then quarterbacking that thing. It's not an easy job. I don't know who's the quarterback for that show, but that might have been the missing piece. So I think Bucker T.

Sounds like we watched the same show, doesn't it? Yes. Yes. Is there, I hesitate to even ask something this silly, but is there anything they can do to give a real shot in the arm, Eric? I mean, once upon a time, the answer was, hey, let's go sign a big talent. But I don't even think that's it here. Like, I don't think there's a talent they could go land that all of a sudden people are going to switch and tune in. Like if AJ's contract is really up and we'll talk about that in a moment and he decides to go to TNA and that's not going to happen, but let's just pretend it did.

I don't think people are going to magically start watching that show because AJ's on it. Am I wrong? No, you're absolutely right. thinking that they will is absolutely wrong. Look, it's so simple, but it's also so difficult. It's simple in that. I know people that don't really understand what I mean by format. I get it.

It's the recipe. And the recipe for wrestling is really freaking simple. It's really simple. And sometimes you can convince yourself that you can add all kinds of spices, do all kinds of stuff to the recipe and make it better. But at the end, you can't. If you don't get the basics of a recipe correct, nothing you're going to do at the end of that process is going to make it any better. And wrestling is that.

Stories, the format to tell those stories in, there's an art to that. Television is an art. It's not a science. There's an art to it. Stories, format, characters. It's really freaking simple. The wrestling part is the easy part if you let it be. but if you try to just add all the sizzle but there's no state it just you know it's like you're talking about food

amazing it just doesn't work and they need to do the basics to bookers point mine last week i pointed it up they need a director they need an executive producer who has a vision for the show a director who knows how to sit in that seat and get he capture the moments that execute on that vision and you need a team of people with cameras in her hands that know how to capture it live. And then you have to have the formula to put it all together so that it's digestible, not only digestible, but palatable for the audience. Make them want more when the meal is over. But that's the art part.

And that's the part where they're, what I saw last week, way up. Raj, I want to talk to you about budget. But before we do, Eric, I've noticed you're talking about food a lot. And you probably know what you need to eat because you're wearing your Cignos, your continuous glucose monitor. Eric is in better shape than ever. He's sleeping better than ever. He's exercising better than ever. And a lot of that is because he's got a continuous glucose monitor.

He's got real-time insights into his body about what's going on in real time. He does this thanks to Cignos. It actually works with that monitor and AI to tell you exactly what you need to do to feel at your best. And it turns out like 88% of Americans are classified as metabolically unhealthy. What you're going to notice is you sleep better. You have more sustained energy. Eric, tell us what your experience has been like using Cygnus. It's been an education, number one, because with Cygnos, I had to learn a little bit about blood glucose and insulin. And the more I read about blood glucose and insulin and how to manage it, the more I became intrigued.

And now when, you know, I am in better shape that I've probably been since I was 30. I'm throwing weights around in the gem that I never thought I could or would, to be, to be free. Even when I was working out when I was, you know, competitive as in martial arts. But it's really just learning about how to manage my diet from my body chemistry. And when I started doing the blood glucose tracking and then really watching, my blood clout throughout the day in real time on my phone, I could see how certain things that I thought probably wouldn't affect me

because they're on my quote-unquote diet selection list, but some things on that list do affect me more than others. And when I was able to dial that in and really get my blood sugar so that it's at about an 85, I think it's milligrams per deciliter, whatever the measurement is. But the number is 85. I'm at my optimum in terms of focus. like right now, focus, energy, just optimism, I guess,

and it's because I'm managing my blood sugar, not because I'm counting calories, not because I'm doing anything else, I don't count calories, I don't give a shit about calories, except for what they are and how they affect my blood sugar. So it's fascinating to me, and I will never not manage my blood glucose. All bodies are unique.

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when you use the code 83 weeks. That's Cignos.com, S-I-G-N-O-S-com, and the code is 83 weeks. You'll get 25% off. select plans today. So, rise, let's talk about budget. You know, there's lots of people saying,

oh, here's what T&A should do. T&A should sign this guy, or T&A should bring in this, or TNA needs to up their production. I saw someone suggest last week, hey, why doesn't WWE help them out with their production? I'm like, guys, they won't give Rakeshi comp tickets,

and he's in the Hall of Fame Under Legends deal and his kids of the tag champs. TKO is not going to foot the bill for someone else's production P&L. That's not realistic. Now, Carlos Raj sort of named his shot and said, TNA is looking for a $10 million a year deal. And I thought that was awesome. But I think a lot of people assumed when they announced the AMC deal,

oh, Carlos must have gotten this 10 million. I've seen some random posts from people online who normally know a thing or two, and they may be burner accounts. But these accounts are saying things like, there's no 10 million. There's no money in this AMC deal. Do you have any insight as to what budget if anything has been added to the AMC deal.

I don't know. I don't have any insight. But the rumor in innuendo is once upon a time, the original AEW deal was, Tony was footing the bill for everything else, and Turner was underwriting the production costs. I don't know if that's true or not. Obviously, we know they got a better deal

and now an even better deal with two subsequent renewals. Do you know what the status of the AMC and TNA deal is at all, like financially? Well, I would think that Carlos is probably being legitimate there because you don't want to anger your TV partners, right, and put up, you know, fake information. So, you know, so I would guess, you know, that 10 million a year, you know, when it comes to TV is really not that much. And so, you know, they got their work cut out for them to make it work, you know, under that kind of a budget. But I would tend to believe that Carlos is not putting fake numbers out there. that being said

I thought the show production-wise looked worse than the Spike TV day I thought the Spike TV shows looked really good and this was a big drop from that

so you know hopefully just go back to how it looked back then and it would be a big improvement I think if it's a $10 million deal that's $520,000 per episode

so you have two-hour episodes So you look at what, $250, $260,000 an hour, probably in the ballpark for that network. $200,000 an episode for $200,000 an hour episode is about the kind of current range for that level of cable outlet. So that number of $10 million can actually make sense on paper. Well, let me ask you this, Eric. You know, I don't think it's been officially announced. Maybe I'm wrong, Raj, I want you to correct me on this. I think Carlos was saying they were seeking 10 million.

I don't remember there being an actual, hey, it's 10 million a year for three years for 30 million. I don't know that that was ever actually officially reported. I see your point. I think Sean Ross Sapp said something like 30 million likely represents the total value over three years, roughly equating to 10 million per year. But that makes me think, okay, are we getting cutesy with the wording? How you,

so here's the value of us posting a tweet about your show. Here's the value of us running a commercial for your show. And by the way, we're going to stair step the value. So maybe the last year is the big year if you get those renewals. But to me, I did not see where there had been some significant investment

in the program last week is the point. I'm trying to make. And I don't think I'm wrong about that. Raj, what do you think? Yeah, and that is fair enough. I haven't seen that either, like a confirmation on the kind of budget that they're working with or what they're getting paid. So you're absolutely right.

Those days are over. You know, networks really, really protect that kind of, I mean, I can tell you right now. I mean, I'm really careful about what I say. There's even executives inside of, you know, Fox that can't even discuss some of the data that I wish I could get my hands out because it's interesting. So that we'll never know for sure. We'll, you know, you know the general budget range. But I think to Conrad's point, he was seeking 10 million a year. Doesn't mean he got it.

That's right. Could he got 8 million. Could have got 6 million. We don't know. And this is where we're going back to what I said earlier, man. if I'm Carlos, I'm taking whatever they're giving me and I'm finding other investment. I'm finding a way, even if I'm not getting enough money from my network to invest in myself and upgrade the quality of that show, director, producer, writers that really know how to write

television, not just wrestling, I'd be in that quick because that's what's going to make the difference for them. Nothing else will. Eric, I want your opinion on this. You know, I talked to somebody who's pretty well versed in this sort of thing. earlier this week. And they said, you know, historically, uh, wrestling has always had or needed two really strong companies like the WWF or WCW, but there's really only been one time in history. There was a third company that could achieve any success and that was ECW. Now, we all know, respectfully as much as I love ECW, it was a financial failure. Like the thing

never made money. Um, so even though we may have thought it was a critical success, it was not a success in business. So with that said, this person I was talking to said, hey, the business, when it's really hot, when the industry is really hot, maybe someone should be willing to roll the dice on a third brand, but the business just isn't hot right now. Like the industry is not hotter than ever right now. It's just not. Now, the fans who are here are diehard and they're spending more money than ever. I don't think you could argue that anybody is growing their audience right now, whether it's AEW or WWV. So doesn't feel like we're in a boom necessarily.

Do you think it's even viable that there are three profitable mainstream nationally televised companies in America, Eric? Sure. It's possible. They just, they each, if they're going to be viable, if a third party is going to come along,

it has to be unique. It has to be different. It could be the, you know, the West, you know, the West, be just something that is really so well written and executed and has its own kind of vibe and

energy that it brings a different feel to the equation. That could be TNA. It could be AEW at some point. It's not yet, not now, but both of those companies still could. TNA certainly could, but that's where the vision comes in. I said that earlier, I think people don't really understand it as much as we need to, is if you don't, if you can't close your eyes, if I'm Carlos and I cannot close my eyes and see in my mind's eye what my product looks like and how it's unique and different than or better than or whatever how it is unique to my competition if i can't see it in my head i can't explain it to somebody and if i can't explain it to somebody that can't execute it you need to have a vision what makes you different and stay focused on that and disciplined on that and deliver on that

and eventually it will if it's you know interesting to people it will cut you Sean, but without that vision in a unique look, I don't think a third party is going to come along that's going to be able to do anything meaningful or sustainable. They'll come along. They'll spend a little time in the sun. You'll feel good because they did it. You got that opportunity, but it's just not viable or sustainable if it's not unique. So that is going to be the challenge for T&A, trying to figure out how to be unique. One of the things that we didn't touch on a lot last week, Eric, but I saw a lot of chatter online.

I wanted to pick your brain on. People were really critical of delirious who used to book and ring of honor and now was helping book in TNA and Tommy Dreamer. And I didn't know that that was necessarily fair. And I have the context of doing a podcast with Jeff Jarrett. There was a lot of criticism amongst the hardcore smart fans back in the day of TNA. Like, hey, why didn't they just do this? Why don't they just do that?

And Jeff has been honest on the podcast and saying, we didn't have the money for that. So I almost want people to sort of challenge themselves to think, because I saw some people say, well, I didn't like anything delirious didn't ring of honor. And it looked like shit then too. It's like, hang on, creatively is,

he's not in charge of the budget. So if you were to task some of the more genius minds in wrestling with, hey, go put on a show that everybody universally loves. The smaller the budget gets, the more challenging that becomes, that's really not apples and apples. Wouldn't you agree, Eric?

Yeah, and without being mean about it, some of the talent that I saw, you know, when I was talking about the backstage segments and, you know, not giving people microphones that aren't ready to have microphones because they're greener than goose shit. They do not have the talent. And when you're putting people out there because that's what you could afford, you can't afford people that have years of experience and are really good at it because they're making money somewhere else. It's really, really hard.

It's really difficult. And yeah, the less money you have. have to play with or to work with, the less money you have to put on screen, whether it's camera work, lighting, graphics, special effects, or talent, money affects it all or lack thereof. It feels like to me, too, Raj, and I could be wrong on this, but it feels like the budget is the primary issue here, more than almost anything else. And I don't know that that's something they'll be able to overcome.

And if I hope they do, I think we all agree, it would be great for wrestling and their performers in it and the industry as a whole. It was hugely successful. But I'm curious how this budget is really affecting things and what the real financial strain is. Do you have any insight as to whether or not TNA is still actively looking for a sale? Before you jumped on, we talked about Westside Guns tweet where he said he is interested in buying TNA. It was not the worst kept secret in the world that they were actively trying to sell the thing. And I don't know that the number was ever said publicly, so I probably shouldn't say here. But I heard the same number for multiple people.

And I was shocked. Do you know if the Asper family or Anthem, are they actively trying to shop the thing? Do you think at this point? Or is it just wait and see what WWE does play, Rush? I haven't heard of them actively looking to buy, looking to sell the company. And, you know, there were reports that W.O.B. has the right to purchase it first if it comes to that. if there is a sale. So, you know,

again, I think with this new TV deal, it just seems like they're not looking to sell right now, and, you know, they're trying to get the company hot again, which is tough. It's just between WW and AEW,

you know, with NXT and Broad Smackdown, collision and dynamite, that's, you know, almost 12 hours of TV a week, just wrestling. And that's not counting any other sports or things that people watch.

So, you know, to separate, separate yourself, when there's that much content already on, it is going to be a challenge. But, you know, again, I feel like they shoot themselves in the foot a little bit, like, you know, having Perez Hilton on. Someone should have been there to say he's no longer relevant, you know. And that tweet that Perez made about TNA, they have like 20 retweets or something, you know, it didn't even really get them that much engagement. So I just think they need to rethink some

of their decisions. But it's, it's going to be an uphill challenge. I wanted to ask you too, Raj. You know, there's been a lot of news this week about AJ Stiles. And Eric, you may have missed this, but this past Monday night, Gunther and AJ made a match for Royal Rumble. It's coming up at the very end of the month. It's later this year. Of course, it is a Saudi show.

And allegedly, this is the start of his contract month. I'm talking about AJ Stiles. It was reported almost a year ago that his contract would be up in February of, 26. And the stakes that they announced for this Royal Rumble match, Eric, Goonther agreed to the match with AJ, but only if AJ put his career on the line. Raj, do you have any insight?

Will this be AJ's last show? Will Royal Rumble be his last match? Or is this the beginning of a storyline that culminates at WrestleMania or something else? Or what insight, if any, do you have on what's going on with A.J. Raj. Well, AJ has said many times that this year would be his last. last year wrestling. Obviously, that doesn't mean that they can't sign an extension. But yeah,

his contract is up in February. So just with the storyline that they have with Gunther right now, having retired Goldberg and John Cena, you know, it would go with that story to give him that win. So, you know, and then that would make a lot of fans angry. But, you know, if you're, if you're putting the rocket strap to Gunther, that's a good way to do it. Or, or if the plan is to give AJ a retirement tour. I hope he may not, you know, he's obviously not at the John Cena level, but still, I think the fans have enough respect for him that I think it would be successful to work in every way. But if he goes in and survives because Gunther tried to end his career and AJ decides he's going to decide when and where he ends his career and that decision process is going to start now. You know, some kind of act one moment for AJ to take control of that and defeat Gunther and play out the rest of the year so that he does end his career in 2026, as he said.

I think that's a, you know what's really interesting is there's a possibility either way. So it makes the match kind of intriguing, doesn't it? Absolutely. Something I want to just put out there. I don't know if this is the case or not. I don't have any inside information. I would say as a fan, I would be a little disappointed if AJ's career ended at the Royal Rumble. Yes, I know he debuted in the company at the Royal Rumble, so it could be a nice bookend.

But I would prefer his career not end in Saudi Arabia. There's anything wrong with that. But I would prefer it ended in his hometown sort of thing. Now, technically, I don't think WWE is going to be bringing their TV trucks to Gainesville, Georgia anytime soon. But on February 23rd, they are going to be in Atlanta at the state farm arena. and that's pretty close. What do you think? Is there a chance that,

Raj, do you think there's any chance? We see AJ finish up in February and that's it for real? I mean, it kind of goes to what Eric was just saying. It does make it, you can kind of see both options happening. I agree with you.

Having his career end in Saudi, it doesn't feel right, but you can easily see it happening. So I'd rather, it'd be somewhere else, but you know, it's still I'll just say this. The match is way more intriguing with that

Stiff announced and what we know with AJ's contract. Yeah, what if we... Let's fantasy book here, Raj. What if somehow AJ gets past Gunther, right? And now we're in Atlanta, February,

what was it, 23rd? Yep. We're in Atlanta. And, you know, I don't know what the setup of this would be, but somehow Gunther gets AJ in serious trouble. It looks like they're going to beat them to death. And there's a run-in from the TNA roster, the baby faces from TNA. They say, come on, there's a cool way to integrate.

There's something fun here you can work with. It's TNA guys over, gets the next guys over. That doesn't get anybody over, but gives you a storyline or an angle to try to get some people over. At least it's something other than getting beaten Saudi. the crown out. Nobody wants that. Yeah. What's funny is, or maybe it's ironic, I hope it doesn't happen. But you know, a lot of people there, I'm sure you've heard this. They make the comparison and they say that AJ Stiles is the Sean Michaels of his generation.

Raj, where was Sean Michael's last match? Yeah, that's true. It's in Saudi Arabia. I hope it doesn't happen in Saudi. I hope it happens in Atlanta. If it's got to happen, I'd really like to see him get a WrestleMania under his belt. like let's do the old Rick Flair treatment. Put your career on the line at WrestleMania.

Do a rematch with Gunther and AJ at WrestleMania. Sign me up for that. Like I could get in for that. Do you think they do the same step twice though? I just don't see them doing that as far as repeating the same retirement class step. So, but I would love to see AJ get a last WrestleMania match. Absolutely. I want to see him get a tour.

I'll go on to AJ. tour. I'll get a van and fall them around for a week or two. It'll be fun. To me and my God. Eric, don't you think they're probably going to do that with Chris Jericho as well? Is that, as my grandfather used to say, too much of the good stuff to have a Jericho farewell tour and an AJ farewell tour simultaneously? Or could you do one on raw and one on smack? Is Jericho going? Do we know that?

Well, I mean, he ain't going to take up checkers and chests. He's been in AWW for as long as he wants. Sony's not going to let him go. Yeah, I think they're going to break the walls down in Saudi Arabia. I could be wrong. Wow. Well, that would, that would definitely, because I just kind of assume Jericho was going to stick around AEW. But I mean, I'm hoping he goes, but that would be too much of a good thing.

You know, that would be love me too much to have them both. Raj, nobody knows exactly what Chris Jericho is going to do. Have you heard anything new? No, nothing new. remains on the AEW roster page. You know, again, I made the prediction last week. I still think he's going to be in the Royal Rumble. But, you know, we'll see.

I mean, you know, Chris always plays at these, you know, kind of close to the best. So he's really good at doing this and keeping fans guessing, which is, you know, which is really part of the fun. So it's nice not knowing. Yes, it is fun. It makes you a fan. I love not knowing. One thing I do know, because I have checked the AEW roster.

page, Raj is that powerhouse Hobbs is no longer listed. He finished up last Wednesday night. I was kind of surprised that they didn't have him drop his trios title on dynamite. Instead, they taped it for collision and it aired on Saturday, Eric. So I guess Powerhouse Hobbs could have done Rick Rood if he wanted to. It jumped on a plane and appeared live on Smackdown on Friday night and then drop the title in AEW on Saturday night. Hobbs did not do that. But a lot of people assume, Raj, that Hobbs is signed with WWE.

And I saw there's speculation online that the new trademark they did this week of, I think it's Royce Keys, that perhaps Royce Key is going to be Powerhouse Hobbs' WWE name. Do you have any insight? Has he signed? What will his name be? Is he going to debut at the Rumble? Something else?

What do you know? If he hasn't put him to paper, he's really close to it. So I think the deal has been, you know, by all reports, the deal has been in green tube on both sides. So, um, WWE knew for, for a bit that Hobbs would likely be coming in. And, you know,

Tony Khan, he did make a big offer for Hobbs to stay. And, uh, ob's obviously deciding this is a better career move from, which, you know, he's kind of been kind of stuck,

you know, kind of at the same level in AEW for quite a while. So, you know, as you see, as you saw back in the day during the Monday night war, just going back and forth between the two promotions. It kind of gives you a fresh coat of paint, as Bruce says.

Raj, you mentioned that you heard that Tony Kahn made a really big offer, a really strong offer to Hobbs. That makes sense. I think he's got a big upside. Do you have any insight as to what that number is? No, but I do know, like, he had done the same with Jade Cargill before she left. So it's my guess. is probably higher than the

WWE offer, but Hobbes considers the WWE offer a better career move, even if it is less money. Eric, let's talk about that for a minute. You know, I'm a big AEW fan, and I got a lot of friends over there, and I support that brand.

But respectfully, no one of this generation who wrestles for AEW grew up as a little kid wanting to grow up and be an AEW wrestler. They all grew up imagining they would, wrestle for WW or WCW or New Japan or whatever, but AW wasn't around back then. So if you are,

if you got into wrestling because it was a passion of yours and it was your childhood love and you wanted to pursue it and you wanted to have the lunchbox and the Hasbro action figure and be on the SummerSlam poster or what have you, how big of a factor do you think that is for performers today that they grew up wanting to be a WWV superstar? I hope that's the case is probably almost universally the case across the board because WWE in particular and some of the older ones I guess there's probably not too many

active wrestlers that grew up as WCW fans like maybe they were on the older end older edge of the demo but hopefully that's the case it would be out if it wasn't the case let's talk about one more piece of talent Raj Tomaso champa he posted a statement on social media basically saying he was not going to renew his contract. He was thankful to WWE, but he says in the very near future, his contract's coming to an end, and he thanked everybody from the camera crew

to the catering crew, to the travel department, to the medical team. He spent 10 years there, but he's looking to leave. I don't know if they couldn't agree on money or he just wasn't creatively fulfilled. He even posted his email.

If you were looking to book him, it's book Champa at Jampa. Gmail.com. What do you think? Do you think we see him on the Indies in New Japan or is he very obviously A.EW. AEW does seem like the right fit for him, I think, right now. You know, obviously TNA, he'd make a probably more of a splash there just because of, you know, the talent there is a, it's not as deep, not even close to as deep as AEW.

So I think he has a better chance standing out there. But AEW just seems like right fit. And you got to think with the kind of money he was making the WWE, they're the ones that are most likely going to be able to offer him something that was comparable. So, I mean, it's a good move. He's just been a tag team with Johnny Gargano forever on the main roster. And really had kind of been at that same level for a long time. So, you know, again, it gives them a fresh coat of paint.

Raj, were you surprised that he didn't have more success on the main roster? I think a lot of people would look back fondly at his NXT time, and they would just assume, hey, this is one of Hunter's guys. Because for Triple H when he was running NXT, man, he pushed Champa to the moon. And it feels like now that Triple H has been in power on the main roster of WWE, I don't know if Champa's gotten the same attention. What do you think? Yeah, I agree with you.

He definitely hasn't, but you know, you've got to have like that special it factor. And I don't know, maybe Champa has it, maybe he doesn't, but, you know, there's that big difference between NXT and the main roster is you've really got to, you know, now it's, you know, a much bigger, much bigger platform and you've really got to connect more, you know, as far as connecting with kids and adults, whereas NXT are just in that same, you know, arena every week. So it's, it's tougher. And just, you know, some people, some people get past that. and the others don't. Chompah just, you know, whether he wasn't given the right opportunity or what, he just never kind of got to that level. Raj,

what other news do you have on your plate this week that we can talk about? There was an article in the Hollywood reporter about AEW not going to Netflix, you know, once, if the Netflix WBD deal goes through. Right now,

and Netflix, you know, they, They changed their offer to an all-cash offer. And, you know, not much in that article that we didn't already know. You know, AEW is going to stay on max until this current contract is up, which, you know, we kind of guess. TNT is creating their own sports app, which I don't know. They don't have the NBA anymore, so I think that's going to be a tough sell.

But they are launching their own app. And so Dynamite, at least for now, won't be on that. It will remain on max. And then, you know, once their deal is up in 2027, unless they, you know, renew for that option year, then we'll see where they go. And, you know, I think the article kind of makes it clear that, you know, WBD would be the favorite as far as staying on, you know, TNT and PBS as opposed to, you know, moving to Max. I don't know if you saw, but I guess there was a report that Will Osprey was backstage in AEW this past week.

I know that a lot of people were surprised to hear that. I think they expected him to be on the shell for a year longer. Do you have any inside baseball as to when we should expect to see him back on AEW programming? I mean, the goal was to get him back before all in, you know, if they're still planning to do that show at Wembley. So, you know, with the neck issue like that, you don't want to rush it.

And I just hope he's not trying to come too early and then, you know, potentially increase the risk of, of it getting worse. So, but yeah, I mean, all in was the goal. And we'll see. I just don't, I just hope he's,

you know, waits until he's fully healed before coming back. All in, of course, going to be at Wembley Stadium, August 30th later this year. One last thing. thing before I let you go, Raj. There's a new podcast with

Lil Yachti as a guest on Logan Paul's podcast and Paul Sue. And on that show, Logan Paul sort of flippantly in passing says, I think Vince McMahon's not only going in the Hall of Fame, but he'll be back in WWE soon. This is an insider, somebody who works there saying he thinks Vince is coming back. What would you put the over under at, Raj? Is there a chance we see Vince McMahon in WWE in 2026 on camera? I mean, I mean, he had been like really cutting down his on-camera appearances, you know, before he was, you know, before he left the company. So I just don't know what he does, you know, they've got their footing with creative, you know, they've done better with ticket sales and everything since Vince left. So, you know, I do think he will eventually be inducted in the Hall of Fame. But I just coming back, I just don't see what the, you know, the real purpose would be.

And it's just a lot of negative, you get a lot of negative feedback. Didn't Paul Heyman tease that Adam Pierce is going to be getting a call from someone nobody wants to hear from. Including Honor, it's the big man. Oh, I don't know, guys. I smell angular. I can hear angle alert.

Could be. Maybe that's how they get them into WrestleMania. I'm just kidding. Really, I am. I mean, it will be interesting to see who they're talking about. But, uh, Raj, I appreciate you giving us so much time today. There was so much news this week. Thanks for spending so much time.

Tell everybody how they can keep up with you day and day out. I just follow me on Twitter at the Raj Gehry. And thanks as always guys. And it's a lot of fun. No, thank you. Thank you, Raj. Hey, right now it's everyone's favorite time when our friend Steven Singer, you know, the I hate Steven Singer guy, he announces his brand new gold dip rose color,

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some questions. We said, hey, if you could ask old EZE anything, what would it be? And we got tons of really fun questions and answers,

but I know that you've been doing podcasts all freaking day supporting that real American freestyle. So we'll try to keep these to a minimum. Mike says, Eric, when you were going to buy WCW, would you have had to keep the same contract

with wrestlers like Ogan, Nash, Goldberg, et cetera. or would you have gotten what WWE got when they bought it? That's interesting because those contracts were a time Warner piece. In theory, would those have been included and you had to negotiate them down? Or could the guys have simply said, nope, I got guaranteed money.

I'll wait it out. No, they weren't to signable. So they couldn't have. Now, there's some of them that perhaps would have gotten paid by Turner because the contract was with Turner. They wouldn't have gotten paid from Fusion. We wouldn't have inherited those contracts. Now, there may have been some we would have.

And indeed, you know, Brian Bidal and I discussed that at length, who we wanted to keep, who we felt we wanted to keep it, had to renegotiate with. So it would have been much the same, I think, because those contracts were not assignable. We got another one here. This one is from Pro Wrestling Powerhouse, who says, if you're booking Chris Jericho's alleged WWE return, would you even consider forming an NW-O-ish faction with other former AEW wrestlers

like Jericho, Ricky Saints, Powerhouse Hobbs, Ethan Page, Jade Cargill. I smell money, would be solid heels to fight Cody and Punk. This is more of trying to sell you an idea than a question. What are your thoughts? It's not a bit creatively. It's a great thought. Practically, though, nobody's going to give AEW that much attention. right it's just not we're not going to build the AEW brand in a WWE storyline

so it's a good idea but it's not a practical idea Tommy wants to know Eric when you're at a real American freestyle event what duties do you have and how does it feel being back behind the camera again I love being behind the camera far more than I love being in front of it I mean I love doing this because this is just me and you shooting a shit I mean, this conversation is really not much different than it would be if I was sitting in your house right now. So to me, this is just fun, right? But I love, I can't even describe how much I enjoy building something.

I mean, this was a, this was a blank piece of paper seven months ago, eight months ago, whatever it was now. Can't remember eight months ago. It was a blank piece of paper. And it was up to us as a team to create. to create the vision and figure out how to do it and how to fund it and how to get it on TV. And then, I mean, just that process of building something from scratch is really, really rewarding. And in many respects, I've never had this opportunity before. You know, I rebuilt WCW. WCWCW was in a tank when I inherited it and took it over, and I had to rebuild it, but it had already existed.

It's different. This is fun, man. And I'd be happy to never step in front of a camera again. That's okay with me. I mean, I love doing stuff like today with Fox Nation and promoting things like that. But as far as being on the show, no thanks. You know, my role is at that point, once we, you know, turn out of it. on the lights, so to speak, show day. My job is just to oversee all the little pieces of production to make sure they're all working smoothly, that people are communicating, that we're adapting to whatever issues or challenges we have, because we have them, much like T&A had VZ issues, we have guys that didn't make weight last time. Well, that changes everything. And, you know, you don't know that to the last minute, really. So that kind of stuff, I love working under pressure, and that's really what my day is, is dealing with small issues that arise, some easy, some fun,

some, you know, pretty damn challenging. But that's the fun part, man. It's like you show up at that building and you're kind of walking on a tight rope without a net. And it's, I love the adrenaline that comes with that. KG says, why didn't macho man ever win a secondary championship in WCW? Other than Hogan, it seems like every other top guy or world champ held either the U.S., the TV, or a tag title before or after winning the big gold belt. That's interesting.

I don't know that I really put that together. Jeff, Blair won the U.S., Brett won the U.S., Sting, Lugar, Goldberg, everybody. Not Hogan, not macho. Is there a reason, a rhyme or reason? Was that dictated? Did Savage feel like that would be less than? No. No, but there are certain people that didn't need belts.

Macho was one of them. Scott Hall was another. There are certain, I mean, I think it's the ultimate compliment. I mean, if you're that good where you can be involved in a major storyline as a challenger, um, parentally, I mean, as your career,

you, you are that guy that they can plug into any situation where they need to get our main event or over because that's what that is. That's what that role is. That's a really, really great role to that's what you want to be as a pro in terms of, of the long-term career, that's Rick Flair. No, that's not Rickler because Rick Flair had a lot of championships.

It's Chelsea Green. It's, yes, yes. If you're that talent that they depend on to get people over. Yeah. Fuck. You know, write your own contract. Just be smart. Take your time.

Embrace it. It's a great opportunity if you can get it. It just feels like to me, you know, like, let's take a look at Cody you know what when Roman was the top guy forever it was pushback people were like oh he's never here I'm tired of this it's the same all shit they're doing the same thing now with Cody and people just they want new but if you're always the person getting the next person ready I don't know that that ever replies to you I think Chelsea's in a fucking great spot yep um here's a question Jason wants to know

Eric do you have any stories on Bobby Duncombe senior or junior of course sadly Eric I don't know that you saw, but we lost Bobby Duncan senior this year, or this week, rather. I know a junior passed away years ago. I know they were both friendly with, uh, with, with, with John Layfield. I know Layfield kind of came up with Duncan. Chat me up. Did you ever meet senior? Yes, I did.

Uh, with Dusty, uh, a few times. Um, very little interaction other than, you know, to, to introduce myself and pay respect. Uh, junior, same, you know, a little bit. Got to know them just a little bit, but not much. We've got another question here from Lady H. Eric is working in RAF different than pro wrestling? Is it easier or more challenging? Wow, great question.

It's easier in many respects because, you know, wrestling is scripted, right? So there is an entire workload that goes along with that, you know, that's a big part of that process. Obviously, what we do isn't scripted, but we do have to find. the stories. We do have to cultivate the character. We have to create the packages that kind of connects these athletes to the audience in a similar way as wrestling does, but using real story and real situations. So that part is creatively, it's not easier or harder. It's just different and fun, but it is challenging. But for me, it's way more fun because producing wrestling, especially in the role that I was in.

There was a lot of pressure. I've got a great team of people that I get the opportunity to work with that are all really talented. So I can focus on the things that I do well and I don't have to worry about the things that I'm not that good at. Really interesting question here. This is from Hot Mike Chance. He says, if you were to start a wrestling promotion and you could pick one talent from

each promotion, that's WWAEW and TNA, who would they be. So that's interesting, Eric, because now you've got to sort of flex that muscle and think about, you know, star power versus potential upside. You know, do you go with somebody who's already established as the top guy? Do you go with somebody who's up and coming? We'll start wherever you'd like. But if you were going to pick one guy or gal from each promotion to start your own new

promotion, who would you pick? And I can't do that because I'm not familiar enough with the rosters of each company to do a decent job playing that game. But I like the game. So I'll take a different kind of angle on it and talk about the type or just the type of talent that I would look for. Not a top person, not somebody that is the face of another company, but somebody that's on the verge of it like we were just talking about, right? give me somebody that's got that credibility and equity with the audience that has proven that they can hold that audience. Give me an L.A. Knight kind of guy. Perfect example. That audience is going to follow L.A. night.

They're going to show up for L.A. night. They're going to cheer when they see them on TV. They're going to be pissed when they don't. There are people like that on that roster. Some of them more obvious than others. But I would go, that would be my top guy. They're next to the top guy or gal, right? So just for sake of discussion, I'll throw out L.A. Knight from WWE. From T&A, geez, I'm just not familiar enough with their roster to do a good job at that. So I'm going to take a hard pass on that one. AEW, who do I see there that I go?

Well, look, MJF, I've been impressed with MJF from day one. I'm taking that guy right now. I'm not going to think about that any longer. Silly to think about. That might be the best pick of the crop right there of the three, well, of the two. But I think MJF, just because his ability on the mic, he's, is, look, you know, you're pissed off hearing me say this, but he's got to freshen up his material a little bit. He's got to work a little bit harder so that it doesn't, because you can get into a sameness routine, especially when it's working well like it does for him. you can get so comfortable because you're continuing to get such good feedback that before you know it,

you're now in a cycle. And there's a familiarity to the way you do things. So he's got to just, you know, keep his stuff fresh. But man, he's so red hot on the mic. And you could always make money with somebody that can talk. And he's, it is, you know, great in the ring, but he's a better talker. And he's a great character. Yeah, as a character, MJF is hard to beat. And so is Blue Chew. You know what time it is. It's time to level up.

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Eric, do you remember the whole arm wrestling challenge that would ultimately be won by Van Hammer? Where did that come from creatively? What was the purpose of that other than to try to get the winner over? Yikes. Do you know what year that was by any chance? Let me look it up. I'm going to guess 91. Could be wrong.

So that would have, well, either way, it's a dusty thing. Oh, I'm wrong. It was 95. 95. No, no, no. Hang on, hang on, hang on. I'm wrong. I'm lying here.

93, maybe. 93. Yeah, that sounds like kind of a, I mean, that's old school. That's, you know, like Vergaena did the same thing in the AWA about once every year or two. There was always some kind of an arm wrestling gimmick in there, probably just because it's something different. And it was something that Van Hammer could actually appear to do because wrestling wasn't his thing. Was, I'm not saying this to be funny. I mean this legitimately.

was Van Hammer supposed to be like WCW's answer to the Ultimate Warrior? Big jacked up guy, crazy hair, cool look. And instead of going with neon colors and tassels and face paint, we'll go with a V-shaped guitar and some rock image stuff. It feels like he was trying to be like the WCW Van Ultimate Warrior maybe. I think there was more of a Van Halen vibe than anything else. I think it was a wrestler with a Van Halen vibe. to be honest.

You know, again, there was another guitar player that was in WCW when I first got their big, Max Payne. Max Payne, you know,

so it's not like that hasn't been tried before. Again, it's one of those things that comes along every couple of years. So when he comes, now we got, who's the guy from TNA

that did it? Lyas comes out and plays a guitar. Whatever, it's a thing. Jeff Jarrett made a career out of it. He probably thought, your favorite. Yeah.

Oh, my gosh. How, How could he have ended up last on my list of guitar heroes and professional wrestling? My God. But I think it was just so, you know, there was always, I remember until I took over WCW, there was always this conversation about how do we make wrestling cool again? And I still hear it to this day. You know, how do we make it cool?

Like, you know, how do we get that same vibe? And I think guys like Van Hammer who stylistically as a character fit a certain kind of cultural, he was able to check a box culturally. It was kind of cool at that time. Here's our version of that. Let's see if this will make us cool. I think there was more of that than there was. Hey, how do we make this guy seem like a rock and roll ultimate warrior?

I don't think that was it. Well, one wrestling, as you said, let's do another question. This is from Tony. He says, I'll keep asking until I'm blue in the face. When will Eric give us a Sarsa crash course? I want to be able to use it for my students. You know, I've been asked to do a series of videos on that. It's just a time and it's not even a time thing.

I realize just recently, I just have, I don't have a time problem. Well, sometimes, most of the time, but I have a bandwidth problem. It's like if I'm going to focus on something like that, it ends up taking up way more bandwidth, focus, time, thought, than I realize it will. And then I get frustrated. So at some point I may do that just for the fun of doing it. But it's not right now. Maybe when I retire, it's whenever that's going to be.

Eli Forp is an interesting question here. and he's trying to ask respectfully, but there is a tinge of underbite, so hang tight. Looking for perspective, not trolling. In 1996, would he have taken advice from someone promoting in 1966

on how to run his shows? Given how fast the business evolves and being a bit out of the key demo, why should we consider him to have the pulse of a regular or casual viewer? That's an interesting question. I almost want to answer on your behalf. math. No, it's a fair question. It's a very fair question. I'll answer it by saying,

as a television producer, there's no one more aware of who the demo is and who the demo isn't than the guy who makes a living targeting that audience. I also think people need to understand that people that are in the television business, most of the people who are making most of the big, correct decisions, whether that be strategically or creatively, are people in my demo, my age. They're the executive producers. They're the studio executives. They're the directors.

They're the writers that are making the most amount of money. The vast majority of them are in their 50s and 60s. And, yeah, some of them even in their 70s are some of the highest paid directors and producers, not because they're directing and producing from their perspective. individuals and from their perspective or their life experience necessarily, but they're producing because they understand the demo or the audience they're producing for and how to tell stories and capture their imagination. That's a skill set that doesn't really age as badly as you might think. It's not like physical skills. Creative skills and instincts are different, and you look at

directors like Clint Eastwood as an example. And there are many, many more. I'm not a film history buff, but it wouldn't take long to look at some of the top producer or writers, producers and directors. I don't know, guy likes, let's say Martin Scorsese. Do you think anybody looks at, and I'm not comparing myself to Martin Scorsese, but please don't go there with this, but I'm just trying to illustrate by exaggeration, perhaps, which is my tendency, that my age, as it relates to my ability to produce television, is not as much of a disadvantage as you think.

And in many ways, it's an advantage. It's an unfair advantage. Because I've had a ringside seat of watching my own huge successes and embarrassing failures. I've had that ringside seat. But I've also had a ringside seat watching other people learn and what they did right and what they did wrong. And now, because I've been around for a minute, I get to apply it to what I'm doing currently. So I don't think it's that big a deal. But it's a very good question.

I'm actually glad you asked it. I think there's, I don't know, one day I'm going to get you and Tony Kahn together because I think you guys have more in common than you don't. And I think you would see things. I think you're both uniquely qualified to talk about, you know, trying to defy the odds and go against the grain and enjoy success. And I feel like sometimes when you state things that are factual, that AW's audience has eroded.

So is WWEs, by the way, but the industry has. You rode that wave. I mean, you took over a company that was so deep in the red and had to dig out to get to profit. And then ultimately, you hung around long enough to seek crater. And I don't know. I just think you're uniquely qualified to talk about what to do and what not to do.

Not from a listen to me, I know best. I'm smarter than you, but I have the lived experience, if that makes sense. And I think sometimes when people just read things that you say as a headline on one of the news sites, then they just think, oh, Eric's shooting on AEW. And that's not always the case.

I think you're just sharing your experience. I do the same thing to my own work. I mean, I'm as critical of my own stuff as I am of others and is probably more direct and blunt way when I say my work. I mean, even our work as a team. I don't, you know, I just make the point. and I try to back it up. But here's another, I just found this out last week. Do you know that when I created the format for Nitro,

when I created the Nitro format and television series, that Nitro is still, to this minute, the highest rated originally produced series in the history of Turner Broadcasting. No. To this day. Now, what did I learn on that journey? journey the good stuff and the bad stuff that's the part that now I get to like I say apply to whatever else I'm doing whether it's free off or or a different project is the experience that comes with age and you can't underestimate that well something else you can't underestimate

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Yes, that one, where Hogan turned live on the TV guide slash preview channel 30 years ago. I'm talking it up to a glitch in their system. Have you ever heard anyone mention this before? That's wild. Do you remember hearing people say they watch the whole show for free on the preview channel? I mean,

I've heard many people talk about how they, pirated it, but I don't remember ever hearing about it being available on a TV guide channel. Isn't that amazing? That's awesome. That's called Turner Home Satellite. That's what that's called. It was one of the Turner companies that I had the privilege of working with so they could take an allocation for my revenue for providing satellite services to the TV channel

guide. Oh, gosh. Kenny Wise, horror says, what are the three biggest angles or defections that could have changed the outcome of the Monday Night War? That's interesting. He says, an example I can think of is what if Triple H and Sean Michaels made the jump to WCW to be with Scott Hall, Kevin Nash, and Xbox? I don't know if that would have necessarily changed it. But hypothetically, if Austin had not resigned his contract and he jumped to WCW in late 2000, early 2001.

Would that have changed anything? Nope. No matter what, it was done. It was, it, the patient was on the table without a pulse, and the body temperature was dropping precipitously, and no one would declare death yet.

There's, there's no way. It was, there's not a chance. The powers that were, the people that were pulling the levers in the AOL time winner merger had predetermined long before then that they were going to get WCW off books. So Steve Austin nor anybody else could have changed that. Hypothetically, I know that there were opportunities out there. I'm not sure who else got them, but allegedly Brett Hart as part of his contract, he was going to have the option to do some movies.

I don't know what's true, what's not true, doesn't matter. What if the Rock had that same option in 2000? Like, let's say he jumps and he's going to come into WCW, but he's now also got the opportunity to work with Turner on movies. Now, I know Scorpion King doesn't come out until 2002, but let's fast track it and say that now they think they have not only a superstar wrestling talent, but a potential movie star in the brand too. Would that have changed anything or no matter what?

That's unique. where I'm going to take it from the perspective is what if Rock called me and said, hey, I'm available. And I was still in a position where I could have used that as an opportunity or leverage in a conversation. I could sell that. I think I could have sold that to even the most anti-WCW AOL time wearer execs because they would have seen upside in the world that they really wanted to be in.

They want to be in a wrestling business. They wanted to be in the movie business, in the television series business. So Rock at that point in time would have, could have changed the tide internally, which would have changed everything. One last one. I'll freestyle this.

That was a fun one. I liked that one. I was a little bit. I had to think about that. What if when you get sent home in September of 99, they don't pick up the phone and call Vince Rousseau? They pick up the phone and call Paterson and Bruce Pritchard, and they both come to WCW. Does that change anything?

No, for the same reason I just stated. It would have possibly prolonged it. It would have made the ultimate decision to get rid of WCW a little more difficult. If all of a sudden from out of nowhere, they started having success before everybody within a while time order was. fully committed to pull in the plug on WCW. Because it didn't, you know, there were times when there were more people pulling the plug than trying to keep the plug in.

But, yeah, I mean, that's one that would have been fun to sell in. Last one, Big Ben wants to know, when people say the NWO was watered down with a lot of people in the group, well, wasn't that the entire point of the NWO to turn WCW into the NW? you out? I mean, if you think about it logically, yes. Like, wow. What I did I wish I would have thought of that. Like for the last 20 years, I'd have a good answer to that question. Why didn't get it so watered down? I got a good answer. But now I do and I thank you very much for that.

Whatever time I have left on this surf where people ask me about the NW being watered down, I'm going to fire back with that MFR and I'm going to sound like I've really given it some thought. Can't believe this is real, Eric, but this. Sunday, as folks are listening to this, you're going to be live on TikTok for the first time ever. Eric will be live this Sunday at 11 a.m. Eastern answering your questions. Click the link above to register right now so you don't miss EZE live on TikTok this Sunday. That's Eric Bischoff, live on TikTok this Sunday. Well, we really appreciate all the time today, Eric.

It's a banner day for Real American Freestyle. I'm glad we got to. I share it with you here on 83 weeks. you and I are both headed to Atlanta. Next week is going to be a blast. I don't know if you missed it, but we're doing something called Eric Bischoff's power plant. Yes, that one.

And you actually get to step in the ring with Buddy Lee Parker and a very special guest, someone you're not going to believe, and learn a few things about a few things. We'll also be debuting some things you've never seen before. We've got some special guests. I love getting together, these big events where we get together

with all of our friends and family over at ad-freeshows. com. It's something I look forward to every year, Eric, and we're kicking it off with a bang. I don't know if you heard, but Effren's got an opportunity to give away $10,000 next Saturday. I saw that, man. How crazy is that? I'm glad Effer and I are such good friends, and I can't wait to play that game. I'm just kidding.

I think it's going to be a blast. Effron's a hoot. And I, both Lori and I, we always have so much with Effort because he's so good at what he does. He makes it all fun. and just the whole vibe is fun. I can't wait to get there. Well, that'll do it for us this week. Get the subscribe button, turn on your notifications bell,

and we'll see you next week right here on 83 weeks, but there it fish off.