83 Weeks with Eric Bischoff - Episode 420: The Greatest Gambler

Episode Date: April 3, 2026

On this episode of 83 Weeks, Eric Bischoff and Conrad Thompson take a deep dive into some of the most intriguing topics in professional wrestling today, mixing bold opinions with decades of industry insight. Eric opens up by admitting he may have underestimated the impact of Danhausen, discussing how the unique, fan driven appeal of the character resonates with today's audience and what it says about the evolving wrestling landscape. The guys also discuss Chris Jericho and his return to All Elite Wrestling, with Bischoff suggesting that both financial incentives and creative opportunities likely played a major role in the decision. And, Eric weighs in on Tony Khan and the importance of retaining top tier talent, noting that losing stars like Cody Rhodes and potentially someone as buzzworthy as Danhausen can have a lasting impact on a company's momentum. All that plus, Raj Giri with his wrestling news update on this edition of 83 Weeks with Eric Bischoff.  MANDO - Control Body Odor ANYWHERE with @shop.mando and get 20% off + free shipping with promo code 83WEEKS at http://shopmando.com ! #mandopod BLUECHEW - Right now, when you buy two months of BlueChew Gold, you get the third for FREE with promo code 83WEEKS. Visit http://BlueChew.com  for more details and important safety information, and we thank BlueChew for sponsoring the podcast. DOSE - New customers can save 35% on your first month of subscription by going to http://dosedaily.co/83WEEKS  or entering 83WEEKS at checkout. INDACLOUD - If you're 21 or older, get 35% OFF your first order @IndaCloud with code 83WEEKS at https://inda.shop/83WEEKS ! #indacloudpod SAVE WITH CONRAD - Stop throwing money away by paying those high interest rates on your credit card. Roll them into one low monthly payment and on top of that, skip your next two house payments. Go to https://www.savewithconrad.com  to learn more.

Today's episode comes to you from the Blue Chew Studio right now. When you buy two months of Blue Chew Gold, you get the third month for free with promo code 83 weeks at Bluetooth.com. Hey, hey, it's Conrad the Mortgage Guy and we are live at 83 weeks.com. We greatly appreciate you guys joining us. Hope you'll hit the subscribe button and make plans to join us next time. Of course, we couldn't do it. Without the Hall of Famer, the only man to beat Vince McMahon, not once, not twice, but 83 weeks in a row.

Mr. Eric Bishop, Eric, how are you, man? I just didn't beat him. I bitch slapped him. Bam, bam, bam. Tell him how to produce television in the 90s. He learned. Learned a little too well. But I'm doing great.

Conrad, how are you? Man, better than I deserve. Excited to be with you. Excited after a big real American freestyle weekend. I think you had one of, if not your biggest event yet when it comes to mainstream media coverage and a lot of chatter coming into this. The big rematch after there was a brawl last month. Real American Freestyle in Tampa, Bo Bassett continues to impress.

It was maybe my favorite show so far. Eric, what did you think? I'm going to be honest with you. It was a very tense day. There were a million things. going on. Some of them were really great. Some of them not so much. But I was so relieved when that show was over. Some of it was technical, right, that had nothing to do with our production team or anything else. It's just, you know, the things that can go wrong with the live television

broadcasts. A lot of them decided to go wrong that day. But here's the advantage of having a really great team of very experienced people when it comes to live TV production. Nobody at home knew it. Nobody watching knew it. Nobody in the arena knew it. But it took me about two days to recover from it, to be honest with you. And so much of that was going on during the course of the show that it was really hard for me to sit and watch it and enjoy it. I just started watching it this morning. And it really is a great show. It really is. The energy was off the charts. And that I could feel in the arena. I mean, people came ready for this card. And the stuff, I just got to talking to Chad, Bratstein, my partner a few minutes ago.

And the stuff that we've got planned for May and particularly for June is going to blow people away. I mean, it's just, I know, you know, when we first announced this, of course, the, you know, the internet wrestling universe led by the biggest con man of them all, Dave Meltzer, who was so quick to dismiss what we were trying to do and, you know, share his opinion how nobody's going to watch. and couldn't draw people and all that. We're outperforming AEW by quite a bit, by the way, in terms of attendance. Not that that matters because there are really two different products. I'm saying this only to contextualize Dave's comments.

But the response that we're getting in the marketplace, the response we're getting, as you pointed out, mainstream media, the energy that we're creating, even with the athletes, they're so excited about what we're doing that. I think we really do have, as Chad would put it, a unicorn. on our hands. And it's a lot of work. It's a lot of stress. We're moving really fast, but we're moving smart. And it's, it's, it's pretty fun. And it was incredibly fun to watch. I hope that everybody will check it out on Fox Nation. You can not only see this particular

real American freestyle event, but all the previous ones. And you'll be hooked up in time for the next big show going down April 18th. That's night one of WrestleMania. You guys are going to be in Philadelphia of Pennsylvania. You want to talk about a hotbed for professional wrestling, but now a different kind of pro wrestling, Real American Freestyle in Philly. Tickets on sale now at Real American Freestyle.com. Eric, you know me.

I'm inquisitive. I like to learn. I like to ask questions. And I am curious when you said, hey, this particular event was really, really stressful and you were grateful and relieved when it was over. I know there's some stress on the production side. you made that part clear.

I don't want you to betray any confidences or bury anybody, but I am curious what created all the strength. Can you share that? Like, I know that a lot of our listeners have grown up watching live wrestling, you know, professional wrestling, wrestling,

if you will, sports entertainment every week. And sometimes this narrative gets thrown around like, oh, well, the XYZ company is not prepared enough. They're changing things up until an hour beforehand. And it's like,

well, that's kind of common in that space. But the whole production side is something, that we never really talk about. It's always a discussion about creative. And creative's kind of, I wouldn't say out the window, but it's not the same thing here. So this would have been more technical chaos. Is that fair to say?

Oh, yeah. I mean, the technical side of things, which really had nothing to do even, well, since we're talking about it, there's no time constraints here, obviously. But here's what happens with freelance production oftentimes because the people that we hire to come in and produce our shows, some of them are, many of them are freelancers, right? And it's March Madness. So a lot of the freelancers that we really prefer, that we work with consistently because we prefer them, we're committed to March Madness. So that means this is just one level, right, to give people an idea of just how complicated

production can be. So the freelancers that were available to us, many of them were people that had never worked with us before, that had never worked on our project before, we're completely unfamiliar with our process and what we do. So there's a learning curve with new people when they jump into a production. That's one. In a similar category is the actual truck that we used, meaning, you know, your director's sitting in the truck, everything that we need. It's kind of like the, it's like the Starship Enterprise, right? You're the control deck, really. And the truck we used, it was acting up that day.

Let's just leave it at that. There were a lot of issues with the truck. Now, that's a technical issue. And if the truck isn't working right, the signal doesn't get where it needs to go. So you've got to work on that. We had some, you know, we were supposed to have, um, fiber optics available to us to transmit the signal. Well, the building, you know, for whatever reason, their fiber optics was inoperative. So now we're going to Plan B and Plan B didn't work. So now we're

going to Plan C. So those are examples of some of the technical things. And it's all boring shit, unless you're in that business. It's really quite boring and dry. But it's like a combination of technical issues that start to compound. Like one of those issues in and of itself, that big a deal. We've got a smart, creative experience team. We can pretty much solve anything in any given moment. But when you've got two or three of those things coming at you all at the same time, they start compounding each other. And you're getting closer and closer to showtime, where it actually becomes, you know, life or death, so to speak, in terms of delivering a show. Now, again, all of this, fortunately, or I probably wouldn't be here, but, because I'd have thrown myself off a bridge

somewhere in Tampa. But it doesn't matter whose responsibility it is. The fact is it's our job to deal with it and fix it. So that's what I mean by the stress in that show. It had nothing to do with Real American Freestyles, planning, and the booking of the matches or anything like that, because that part of it is quite different than we normally talk about in sports entertainment. But for us, just on the production side, it was just one thing after another and a compounding impact that each of them had on the other that turned it into a real stressful situation. And I'm not going to, you know, sugarcoat it. The situation between Armand and Georgio required a lot of additional care and effort.

That could have gone bad, right? We saw what happened at 06. It came close to going bad at 06. We had to make sure that it wasn't going to go bad on 07. and that required a lot of extra attention to detail and infrastructure. So it was really the combination of those two things, but primarily the technical side of the equation that created the most stress. Is there a WCW show in your interview mirror?

You could compare that to? I only asked because I think I remember hearing in 1996 when the Olympics were in Atlanta, that created a whole new set of stresses and pressures for you in WCW, right? Well, that's exactly why in 1996, knowing what the situation was going to be, because the Olympics are in town, every great freelancer in the country is at the Olympics. And the only thing that's left is the, I don't want to refer to people as bottom of the barrel,

but yeah, that. And knowing that and knowing how complicated the nitro format was, As is, by the way, R-A-F, R-A-F is actually more complicated because of the nature of it than even Nitro. And knowing how complicated our format was and knowing that all of the good freelancers were not going to be available, knowing that all of the great cameramen that we normally have were not going to be available because they were Turner cameraman. I didn't have the luxury of going out just hiring whoever I wanted. I had to hire Turner Sports cameraman, Turner Sports audio people, Turner Sports lighting, right? But when the Olympics came to town, none of those people were available.

I couldn't even get people that worked for Turner to work for me. They were all committed. So rather than fight my way through it, kind of like we did down in Tampa this past weekend, I just opted to go to Disney MGM Studios and produce the show from there because everything was self-contained. I didn't have to rely on freelancers, at least not as many of them, and not freelancers in critical positions like audio and cameramen and things like that. So all of that was like in-house at Disney because it was Disney MGM production studios. They had a lot of their own staff.

So that's exactly why we went to Disney during the Olympics to avoid the very scenario that we were faced with in Tampa. The good news is I pulled both shows off. I should get a purple heart for this one, actually. I may need therapy after this, to be honest with you. This was tough. Well, I'll tell you, I did not see that. As of you were watching at home, I thought it was a fantastic show. I hope folks will give it a shot and check it out.

You can check it out on Fox Nation. You can see the replays of 1 through 7. And of course, you can be joined in time for Real American Freestyle 08. It's coming your way on April 18th at 7 o'clock in Philadelphia. This is your first time taking RAF to Philly. It was a hotbed for sports entertainment. You knew it was a wild and special crowd. What do you expect for a real American freestyle in Philly?

Yeah, more of the same. And by the way, before I shift gears right away, because we've been talking about all the problems with production, if it wasn't for my full-time team that I was able to put together, David's, how do you help me put this team together with James Underbarro, Emmanuel, a lot of great people that work for us every single month, They were there and they're the ones that saved that show, to be honest with you.

And we're able to avoid disaster. And I can't say enough great things about our regular production team because they were there and they saved it for us. What do I expect in Philadelphia? Look, Philadelphia is a great sports stop, period. And I think bringing combat sports of any kind to Philadelphia is probably going to just turn out okay. But I think because of the heat, the momentum, the buzz that we've got. honest right now in the world of combat sports, I think Philadelphia is going to rock. I'm really, I'm really looking forward to it.

I am to check it out real American freestyle.com. I want to give a quick shout out to David Tihati too earlier this month, or I guess now it was last month. Here we are already in April. In early March, he released a new book available on Amazon backstage pass. Look for that on Amazon. David Tihati backstage pass. Highly recommend you check out the book.

I mean, you want to talk about the book. talk about a guy who understands how to pull those emotional heartstrings, you know, how to tell a story. I think David's the hotties got that down pat, don't you, Aaron? I do indeed. And I forgot one name on that list of people that I want to make sure I've expressed gratitude forward to. And that's John Norton, our producer, a phenomenal job, just a phenomenal job.

If you look at the production values of real American freestyle, as complex as that format is, we're really knocking it out of the park. it is. I want to make sure people understand. I'm not taking credit for that. I'll take credit for putting the team together and managing the team. But I've got, I'm blessed with a great team of people. Let's put it that way. Well, there's no doubt about that. Check it out real American freestyle.com. Of course, we're going to be talking about sports entertainment today, including Cody Rhodes and Jericho. How about Jericho back in AEW? John Sina is going to be at WrestleMania. We've got all that and a whole lot more. But first, I want to take it.

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and hello to long lasting freshness. Now, Eric, this is a big week for anniversaries. You know, last week we talked about the 25th year anniversary of WCW going out of business and being sold to WWB and, of course, the anniversary of the last nitro. This week was the anniversary of WrestleMania 17. But as you and I are recording today on Thursday, April 2nd, it is the exact four-year anniversary of when Cody Rhodes returned to WW. Now, on the one hand, that feels like it was about 10 years ago.

And on the other hand, it feels like it was yesterday. What cannot be denied is the impact that Cody Rhodes has had on WWE and more specifically TKO from April 2nd, 2022 to April 2nd, 2026. This is, it's almost like a movie. Is it not? I think so, you know, particularly because of, of the, backstory, you know, going all the way back to Dusty, a Dusty story, and then, you know, evolving into Cody's story and leaving WWE and coming back under the circumstances that he did.

I mean, if you sat back and said, okay, I need 90 minutes out of this, which is typically the length of a feature film, I need 90 pages, 95 pages on the script, and you spent the first 30 pages of that kind of setting up the story and setting up Dusty. and where Cody comes into the picture and where we are today, it's, it is a pretty interesting movie, to be honest with you. And we'll see what happens at WrestleMania. I'm excited about this match. I'm excited about Randy and Cody for a lot of reasons.

There's a lot of people who have come around on that match. I think at first people were sort of down on it when Cody won the belt back. But I think there's enough intrig and enough mystery and enough who done it that everybody's sort of curious. Hey, who's Randy talking to on the phone? And what I think I love about wrestling and at times I get why it can be frustrating is a lot of times it feels like in the wrestling, I hate to use words like this, but in this space or in this vertical, I hate that word. You see sometimes, man, people beat it like a drum. Hey, the NWO got over. What if there were two of them? Okay, now that we got a red one and we got a white one, why don't we do a

lucha one? Hey, hear me out. What if we reunite? at the NW. So I get that people are critical of that every now and again, but it's like, hey, if it's working, it's working. And you and I not that long ago, we were discussing, man, the buzz of all of wrestling is what's in the box? Is it going to be Chris Jericho? Is it going to be a mascot? Is it going to be a return? What is this? It wound up being Danhausen. And then the other big question of who is the masked man? Is it going to be Seth Rollins? Who is this going to be? Who's under the hood? I think WWE, leaning into this again so quickly with who is Randy on the phone with on the one hand i get why

people would be like uh but on the other hand it's working it's adding intrigue every time and i think back to my friend who used to say something about sarsa and this feels like that would fit in that formula doesn't it it does this is the anticipation part it gives you something to think about something to talk about who's the third man the reason the mw o story worked and there's a number of We don't need to go into all of them because some of them are so obvious, right? Like Hulk Kong and turning heel, that's kind of a big damn deal. You know, the timing of Scott and Kevin becoming available after their run in WWE and the way I brought them in. Yeah, that had a lot to do with that.

But more than any of that, at the very foundation of why the NWO story worked amongst many reasons, the very core reason, in my opinion, was the mystery that we created. Who's the third man? And it was a short period of time. I don't know how long it lasted, maybe two, three weeks. I'd like to know that. I'd have to go back and look. But during that two or three or four week window of time,

when who's the third man was the only thing anybody was talking about because the NW didn't exist, right? The only thing that existed was the question mark, who is the third man? And then when we answered that question in the biggest, most unpredictable way possible, obviously it took all of that intrigue to an entirely different level. And that's exactly what they're doing here. And I don't think there's anything wrong with going back to things that work. It's a formula. It's a storytelling device. If one were to take the

position of, oh, well, okay, I know intrigue and creating a mystery is not, we don't want to do that too often, but we've got to tell stories every single week. But let's not go to a mystery. Let's not create a question because we don't want the internet, you know, to start complaining about going to the well too often. What are you doing? You're tying your, you're tying one hand behind your back. The art is to come up with a compelling story, with an interesting question or an interesting mystery that you can pay off. Let's go back to Danhausen in the box. I may have said, I hope it's not Danhausen, because my fear, at that point in time, not my fear, but from a creative perspective, my concern was that because of the Jericho thing looming out there in the wrestling atmosphere, my fear was that if it was anybody other than Jericho, whoever it was, was going to be a letdown. And I was right.

what I didn't anticipate and where it doesn't really matter if I was right or wrong is just how well Danhausen has gotten over since he was revealed. That is surprising to me because they created a big mystery. They got the anticipation. They checked that box. So anybody was talking about. But the reveal I was concerned wasn't going to satisfy the audience. And like I said, it didn't. really, I think because the audience wanted something more.

But look what Danhausen has done. That who's the, I almost said who's the third man, that who's in the box storyline, that storytelling device, that mystery may not be the reason why Danhausen is over as much as he is, but certainly that character is taken on a whole different life than I think anybody, probably even Danhausen expected. And I could not be happier for him for the fans and also for WWE because they are printing money with one young Mr. Danhausen.

So yeah, I would say be careful about complaining too much about going back to the well with things that work and just make its stories more interesting. Maybe I'm in the minority, but it feels like I'm with you 100% supportive of Dan housing big fan of him personally super excited that he's enjoying success inside of of w w but i can't help but wonder in an alternate timeline of universe because this is a personality who's effectively gotten over with a wrestling audience without wrestling and i know there are a lot of young wrestlers who feel like their their path to success in wrestling is through having great matches and getting five-star matches and we've talked about that and

we know that story's more important character development's more important danhousen perhaps the best example of that of all. Getting over like Rover taking exactly zero bumps, super happy for him. But doesn't it feel like once upon a time if Vince McMahon, because I don't know that Vince would have ever leaned into Danhausen the way it's happening now because it feels like he had, I'm not comparing the two,

but I'm saying they had an ability to connect with the audience without wrestling. It feels like Grado and, God, who was the, his real name is, James, Spud, spud from TNA. Those characters were amazing dynamic characters in TNA. And I just thought, well, they could go to WWE and just print money. Like, these guys have personality for days.

And the audience sort of gets what they're doing. I don't know, but I can't help but look at the success Dan Housen is having now and say, were there missed opportunities in the rearview mirror that W. W.D. could have leveraged in a similar way because Dan Housen has been a phenomenal success. I don't think so. I mean, perhaps, right? Nobody's got a crystal ball or can look into the past and really be able to

conclusively decide that something could have gotten over that didn't. So much of it is timing. I mean, how many times have you heard me unique about Dan Housen? I don't know what it is. I can't put my finger on. I'll be honest with you. I wouldn't bet on it. Do I think Vince McMahon may have bet on it?

Part of me thinks probably more so than I would have because I tend to lean into more reality-based characters than I do animated characters and Danhausen is as animated as it gets. Yeah. My instinct would have probably not embrace the Danhausen opportunity. I think Vince's may have. Vince did look at characters differently than I did in that respect.

No way to predict it. But I think of the two of us, Vince would have been more likely to go with the Danhausen than I would have been. I do want to ask, and I'm not setting you up here, but it's going to feel like I'm setting you up. So I'm just going to ask anyway, do you think the Undertaker character,

like if you had an opportunity to launch the Undertaker character in WCW, like let's say, for instance, he doesn't jump ship at Survivor Series 1990 and show up on the other channel. And he hangs around a bit as mean Mark Callis. And then at some point in 91, when you get a little bit more control, the Undertaker is an idea that you try. Does the Undertaker character enjoy the same level of success in WCW as it did in WWE? Or is your preference for realism, would that have stifled his upward trajectory of that?

Well, the timeline that you just laid. out there is a little interesting. First of all, I didn't get to WCW until 1991. So that timeline of him showing up there, but I had a little bit more control. I didn't get any control really until 93, really 94. And by that time, you know, Undertaker's path was already charted. But here's what I think would have likely happened. Had the Undertaker been conceived in, I should say, idioted because conceiving themselves weird, but creating that character, had that happened under Dusty in 1991, when Jim Hurd was there, I think that version of the Undertaker would have gone the way of the humpback wrestlers or whatever they were.

WCW was fucking horrible at trying to replicate what worked with WWE or WWF at that time, right? WCW was just not good at it. And you can go back and look at all of the attempts that they made. And this was under Dusty, right? So, and you know how I feel about Dusty, but it's where WCW's mentality, creative mentality,

it's the gear that they were in at that time. It would not have, it would have not been successful at all. The best thing that ever happened to Mark Callis and eventually the Undertaker, was making that move to WWF because it would not have survived in WCW. Not trying to be funny, but it is a funny visual. Do you think if the Undertaker character, let's say you created it in 93,

and now you're going to run with it a little bit, Hogan's going to come in. We know that the taskmaster Kevin Sullivan, in order to make Hulk comfortable and sort of keep that style of wrestling presentation going, where Pogan has a heel factory. In this alternate reality, could the Undertaker have been a member of the Dungeon of Doom? Because what a fucking visual that is. Kevin Sullivan would have,

Kevin Sullivan, if anybody could have made the Undertaker work in WCW, it would have been Kevin Sullivan. Yes. Because Kevin loved those types of characters. He, it was, it was in Kevin's DNA.

for those over-the-top animated kind of dark but animated vicious characters. Kevin loved that. And I think Kevin, if anybody would have had a shot at making it work in WCW, it would have been Kevin Sullivan. But again, timing being what timing was, those over-the-top animated characters were dying in WWF at the time. Go back and look at where characters were and where business was and where viewership was and where ticket sales were. go back and look at 1993 and 1994. It wasn't so great. It didn't get great until about 97. So I really think WWE is the only chance

that Undertaker's character would have had a chance to reach the level that it clearly did. So if we're going to continue this silly hypothetical conversation with The Undertaker, hypothetically, was there ever any conversation when you were running WCW about The Undertaker potentially coming over? Because I'm not saying he could have been the third man, but it is interesting to think you've got Diesel, Razor Ramon, and oh my God, is that the Undertaker?

But you probably wouldn't have said that on the show. But if he presented himself more like the American badass version, that could have at least been interesting. Was there even a preliminary discussion as best you can recall about the Undertaker? are coming to WCW. Not with me. Again, could Kevin Nash and Hall and

possibly Hogan or other people, Kevin Sullivan, could they have had those conversations amongst themselves without me being part of it? Yeah, of course. Anything could happen, right? Especially at a very hot bar. But it never reached me. I never had any

conversations with anybody about bringing in the Undertaker. I do agree with you, though, if we're kind of fantasy booking here and timelines don't really matter if the American badass version of the Undertaker would have been the third man

do I think it would have reached the Hogan level no do I think it would have come close yeah could have wow because he was the reality version and you know Mark Callas in the American badass character, that was 100% believable. Yeah.

And it was the believability at that time in 1996 that the audience was wanting, demanding. They didn't know it, but it's what they were wanting. It's what they were waiting for. It was the sea change that really changed the entire industry. The model of the industry changed with the NWO and the more reality-based storylines. and I don't think there was a more effective reality-based character during that window than that American badass character. Now, would the Undertaker have worked in that role?

No. That would be horrible casting. That would be like putting a comedian in a drama. It's just, eh, it's oil and water. It wouldn't have worked. But that American badass character, yeah, that could have been pretty fun to talk about. Well, something else is pretty fun to talk about. Blue chew, fellas, you already know it's time to level up.

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All right, Raj. welcome into the program. I'm excited to have you with us, man. I want to just go ahead and tag you in. We were just having a conversation with Eric a few minutes ago about Cody Rhodes and about the fact that we're actually recording on the four-year anniversary of his return to WWB and what an impact that's had on business. I mean, it's just been phenomenal.

Since then, of course, we know Vince is out of the picture. TKO, the whole merger happens. The business is worth more than ever. The whole industry has changed. in a great deal over the last four years. But there is a sense of sameness amongst some wrestling fans with Cody. And I'm seeing this feedback online where people want to see him turn heel or they want to see something different.

But what seemingly has set the hook this year for the Cody match with him and Randy Orton is who is Randy on the phone with? And Raj, there's been lots of speculation. And I guess there was even a clip on on social media that Randy posted where he says, It said something like, likewise, man, I appreciate everything you've been doing for me. Yeah, I think we're good to go this Friday, right? I'll see you in St. Louis. Now there's all these different theories about who's Randy on the phone with.

And some people are thinking he's on the phone with Vince McMahon. Other people are saying, oh, he's on the phone with Bob Orton Jr., his father. Others are saying, no, it's the rock. And some people are saying he's on the phone with the voices in his head. It's vintage Randy Orton. What do you think we're going to see, Raj? Yeah. You know, the good thing about this is, you know, the internet hasn't been tipped off.

You know, there's no spoilers at least yet regarding who it'll be. So I really have no idea. My guess, we just saw Stephanie McMahon this past Monday night. So I was kind of thinking Shane. But that's just a wild guess. That's not coming from any conversations I've had or anything like that. that was just kind of my guess was it was Shane McMahon. Is there if you had if you, I don't know we don't really have any spoilers here.

We don't know. We have no inside information. But is there even a chance that you think the Ted DiBiase Jr. stuff has been discussed? Because I know we sort of freestyle that here on the program before, but you think there's a real chance that Ted DiBiase Jr. can somehow be involved in this? I don't see it just because I just don't think he was that he reached that level. To be a surprise, I think a big majority of today's audience would not know who he was. I mean, I just don't, I could see doing him as a cameo, but for a reveal like this that's been going on for weeks,

I just don't see it. But, I mean, anything's possible. I mean, he's had his legal issues recently, so I'm not sure he would be a good choice for that role. But anything's possible, I don't see it. Eric, do you have to. I'm going to chime in on that one. If you look at the risk, which in this case, there's two. And Raj, you pointed out something that I think is the most significant of the two, is that nobody knows who he is.

It's, he wasn't that relevant many years ago when he was relevant. It just, he wasn't a big character. So for people to even recognize or remember who he, was, I think is a pretty slim opportunity, slim chance. And then you've got the obvious, you know, negative publicity. Now, yes, he was found not guilty, but there's still quite a bit of a stigma and negative PR that's going to come along with it. So I think when you look at the fact that no one really knows who he is, nobody really

knew who he was in the first place. If he wouldn't have been Ted DiBiase's son, he would have had no equity whatsoever with the audience. but it's been so long ago. He had a very short run. I just don't see any real value in him other than the way it looks on paper because on paper you can talk about what they did in the past and the history and the three of them together before and all that.

That looks great on paper and on the Internet. But when you put it forth in television and put it out there live in front of the audience, I think it'd be crickets. So, Eric, do you have a suggestion? or a guest maybe, not a suggestion. What do you think is going on with Randy and this mysterious voice on the other line? Like there is some crazy speculation. Like people are saying, oh, it could be Rick Flair.

And I get the Flair Rhodes connection and obviously the connective tissue of evolution. And I think we're still under contract AW. So it's not him. What do you think this is? Is it the voices in his head? Do you think it's what Raj is going with? It's Shane. I hope it's not that because that would be a real letdown.

And I don't think there's a bigger Randy Orton fan out there than me. I've talked about it for years on this show. I think Randy is, I think he's the most fluid, complete performer in the last 30 years. I mean, he's so good at everything he does. He's poetry in motion in terms of his in-ring work, his timing, his footwork. work, the way he uses his body to tell a story, his facial expressions, the way he carries himself, his psychology, second to none. I don't think there is a better example of an all-round performer in the last 30 years, maybe longer than Randy York. He does not have a weak spot

at all. and I think his match with Cody I think Cody in particular is going to bring out the very best in Randy I think Randy is going to bring that's what I'm most excited about these two people together these two have things together are going to create one hell of a match for people that fall into my bucket which are give me characters give me story nobody's walking away disappointed after this one

but I think if they're not careful about who they put, who they fill that spot with like, oh, was the voices in my head. That's, I just think that'll be a little bit of a letdown. I'm hoping it's somebody in a, you know,

best case scenario, I'd love it to be Vince. I would love it to be Vince. I don't think it will be for a variety of reasons, but I'd love it to be. Barring that happening, Batista makes sense to me. a little bit.

Hmm, okay. Flair makes sense to me, but I don't see it really working. You know, one is he might be legally under contract. And I just don't think Flair's character is quite where it was a couple of years ago. But, you know, Flair's Flair, it would get that big reaction that night. And there's, there's story there. There's continuity there. There's a reason for it to happen.

Shane, I don't know. Is there a reason for that to happen, right? Is there history between these guys that I don't remember? Not really. I was just thinking because they used Stephanie McMahon, so I was just thinking just for that. But yeah, from a storyline standpoint, there's not a real connected tissue there.

And then his dad, you know, I'm a big fan, Cowboy Bob. Last time I saw him, we just absolutely demolished the 12-packed together and had a blast doing it. maybe maybe i watched an interesting thing on randy the other day i'm sorry to go off track guys but i saw an interesting interview with randy where he talks about one of his biggest disappointments and his career was the way he handled the induction of his father into the wwee hall of fame

and this would be a great opportunity to kind of correct that so i would I would like to see that if they can figure out a way to really make it work. I think that would be awesome. I think we're definitely going to get some sort of family relation. I mean, we saw a clue from Randy where he said, and it is the lyric to Cody's song that opens his theme. Wrestling has more than one royal family. So I think a lot of people are thinking, okay, it's got to be Flair,

it's got to be Orton Senior. It's got to be Vince. It's got to be Stephanie. It's got to be something. So we'll see, and they are in St. Louis as you're listening to this later tonight. So we'll find out tonight on SmackDown. Something that I do want to find out from you, though, Raj, is what the heck happened to Chris Jericho? I mean, it feels like we were all talking like it was almost a foregone conclusion that Jericho was going to be headed to WWB.

And then on April Fool's Day of all times, on April 1st in Winnipeg, Jericho returns to AEW Dynamite. would you make this and how do you think we landed in this spot, Raj? Well, I think, you know, it's what Jim Ross always says, right? With a wrestler making a decision on whether to go or not, it comes down to cash and creative. We don't know exactly what it was. I mean, for a while there it did seem like, you know, Jericho was WWE bound. His contract was reportedly frozen for the time that he missed. And, you know, I could just see that it being one of those things.

where AEW seems to have a little bit of momentum coming off of a revolution. And you know, you guys were talking about Cody four years ago today when he came in and just how the, I mean, it, it, WW obviously has always been firmly number one. But, you know, a lot of that momentum that AEW was losing and WW was starting the game, they, it just really shifted way in WW's favor with, with Cody coming in. And maybe he, you know, Tony just was willing to spend what, whatever it took to get Jericho. I mean, I could kind of see that.

And giving him, you know, a really big storyline, you know, with his final run. I think you see some of the retirement angles we've seen played out in WWE over the past year. And I would argue that none of those were as good as the Sting retirement angle. So it could easily be a combination of those. Who knows? You know, Meltzer had said that, you know, WWE told him that, But you know, you're not going to see him in WWE and maybe might not ever see him again,

which almost makes me think there might be some sour grapes. But, you know, it's always those things can go away over time. But, yeah, you know, I just think if you saw Jericho's ovation, his reaction on dynamite, it was good. But it's Winnipeg where he should be receiving the biggest reaction. And he had been gone for so long that I was expecting him to get something that just blew the roof. cloth. And I think it's just one of those things that Jericho's been there so long. It's kind of done everything that a fresh coat of paint might have been good for him just because he has been

an AEW so long and he probably could use that change. But we'll see how they use him. But I wasn't blown away by the reaction that he got considering those two things. And don't get me wrong, it was a good reaction, but not that overwhelming reaction that you'd expect to see a hometown top star returning after so long received. You'll know when you'll know three weeks from now. And I did watch the reaction and saw his entrance. And it was like you said, Rajah agreed with you. It was solid.

It wasn't overwhelming. Given where it was, we'll know more in three weeks, maybe even two weeks. And you'll be able to tell how successful this. will be in AEW within the next couple of weeks. If it doesn't pick up steam fast, it'll get flat real fast. Why do you say that, Eric? What's making you feel like, you know, you're going to have a quicker response here than maybe normal?

Because he's been there for so long. Absence makes a heart grow fonder. That factor works initially. But if there's not solid, creative, and what feels like a new version of Chris Jericho, and I don't mean just physical. and visually as a character, but I mean storyline-wise and what's his mission? What's his goal? Where's he going? What's he doing? Why is he back? If that isn't made really clear in the very

beginning, if you don't have a good, solid act one, and I'm talking about the opening two weeks of act one, if you don't have a real clear definitive story and mission for him that is compelling, it's okay, well, it's the same thing we've been seeing for the last how many years. And let's face it, and I love Chris Jericho. I mean, I consider him a friend. But if you just look at that character and where it's been on television and AEW for the last couple of years, I don't think anybody can say it's been a success given who he is and what he's capable of.

It's been pretty flat. Six months ago, people were begging for him to leave. We'll see. They've got that that still exists. And the only way to overcome it is to make the entrance he made last night, reestablish yourself, and come back with a mission. But it's important that the audience knows what that mission is so that they can jump on for the ride.

If it's not clear what the mission is, we don't know where this journey is going. I don't think people are going to be willing to jump on the Christ Jericho bandwagon for a destination that they've already been to every week for the last four years. You know, a lot of people hesitate when they're told they might need to start taking something for their cholesterol that they're not really comfortable with taking for the rest of their lives. And people want to still feel like they have some say and how they take care of themselves. But buddy, Eric, and I think we found the solution.

We're talking about dose. You know, a lot of people have started to turn to more gentle alternatives with ingredients they recognize. things like ginger and pomegranate. And that's why more Americans are choosing dose for cholesterol. I'm a big believer in this product. My wife put me up on game, as the kids would say, because dose for cholesterol is clinically backed cholesterol support. And it's a supplement that targets your triglycerides,

your LDL, your HDL and your total cholesterol levels. And I think that this is especially something that should be on us guys' radar. And Eric, I know you've been doing a lot of research on this. these sort of things. But dose for cholesterol, specifically this ingredient stack that they've got here, can be a real game changer because it allows us as guys to sort of self-manage our cholesterol health as an alternative to maybe more conventional therapies. Dose for cholesterol, by the way, doesn't get any easier than this, gets delivered right to your door, making getting the support that you need for your health easy to stick to. And right now new customers can save

35% off your first month of subscription by going to dose daily.co slash 83 weeks. Or you can just enter 83 weeks at checkout. One more time, that's dose daily. dot CO slash 83 weeks for 35% off your first month's subscription. That's D-O-S-E-D-I-L-Y dot CO slash 83 weeks. And Eric, I know you've got your dose in and you're a a real believer in dose these days. Are you not? I am because I'm a believer in so many of the ingredients that are in the blend.

If you look at just a couple of them that really get my attention is, you know, the pomegranate extract. I've been hearing about pomegranate and how good it is for you, how healthy it is for you for years now. Ginger, same thing. Tumaric, that's the one that sold me. And I've got mine right here, by the way. That's the one sold me because turmeric is such a great, great supplement. It's natural.

But the thing that you said that really puts this over the top of me is it gets delivered to your house. Because we all know, even if you're not kind of under rabbit hole like Mrs. B and I are when it comes to, you know, what we eat and what we drink and nutrients and all that, even if you are, it's so difficult to go out and shop for those items and make sure that you've always got them in inventory. And to be able to get all of it in one dose and one product delivered to your door is the real game changer because it's going to be, it means you're going to be. consistent or at least you have an opportunity to be. And the consistency is cool. It doesn't is what matters. Yeah, it's great to go out and, you know, eat healthy for a month and then go back into your same old habits because just going out and getting all that stuff is too much work. It takes too much time. Well, when it gets delivered to your door and all you've got to do is mix it up and drink it, it makes it a lot easier to stay consistent. And that's where your health

improve. So great product, great service. Highly recommend it. Dosedaily.com.co forward slash 83 weeks. Eric, is this the same type of issue you faced with red and yellow Hulk Hogan in late 95, early 96? Where it's an established character, the audience recognizes he's a star and he's done great things and, but there is a sense of familiarity. I don't think you could have come up with a better example or comparison.

It's exactly where it is. It's still the same guy. Jericho is still the same performer. He may be a little slower. or it could be a lot slower. It doesn't matter. It really doesn't matter because it's the character. There's nobody better at reinventing themselves as a character

with Chris Jericho. He made an entire freaking career out of that. So I know he has the potential to do it, but it's just like Hall Cogan, who relied a little bit too much on that red and yellow and the say your prayers, eat your vitamins character and the way he presented that character. The audience had just been on that ride for so long.

they weren't interested in going on another journey. I keep using the word journey. I mean, it's a Joseph Campbell kind of reference. Joseph Campbell wrote the book, you know, the hero's journey. And that book, The Hero's Journey, has been kind of the architecture for just about every great movie, book, television series, known a man since that, since the book was published. And Joseph Campbell talks a lot about the journey of the hero. And in order for the audience to jump on that train and go on that journey,

they have to be excited about it. There has to be a destination they've never been to before. And Hulk didn't provide that back in 93 and 94. Yeah, the newness when he first got the WCW, you got the expected reaction. Oh, my gosh, he's here. Oh, it's great. After about six months, it wasn't.

You'd still get your Pavlovian response because it was Hulk Hogan. and you still got a fairly positive response to him, but you also had a significant smattering of boots. You could hear it. You can hide it. It was there. And it's because that character at that time needed a new journey.

There had to be a reason for the audience to go, you know what? I've been on that ride for 10 years. I'm going on again. We didn't give him one until 97. and Chris is kind of faced with the same Tony more so than Chris or at least equally is faced with that where does it go I talked about that when we were first started speculating about is Jericho going to go to WWE or is you're going to stay in

AEW and my concern then was you know and I'm pretty much assuming that money talks Chris is a smart guy Chris is looking to his future first knows he's at the end of his run at some point, even he will admit it. And he's stacking chips as he should for his family and for his future. And there's a lot more chips to stack in AEW than I'm absolutely sure WW was willing to pay him. So if it was a financial decision, AEW is going to win a lot. If it was a emotional decision in terms of where do I want to end up, how do I want to play out the last segment of my career,

it would have been a WWE choice. For whatever reason, either Chris opted for AEW, or maybe he didn't get the opportunity that he was hoping for. We're all assuming WWE rolled out the red carpet. We're all assuming that they were as excited about the potential of a Chris Jericho farewell tour as the Internet wrestling community was. I got news for you.

They might not have been. So this could have been Chris, taking the only opportunity that was realistically available to him, or he could have been sitting there with his accountant and his financial planner and made a financial decision. We'll never know. Chris is the only one that knows that. I do think that a lot of fans probably assume if Jericho would have shown up in WW,

that it would have been for the farewell deal and it would have involved Gunther. We've seen so many of those, whether it was Goldberg or it was AJ, or it was John Sina. You know, allegedly, Gunther was supposed to finish up Ray Mysterio at WrestleMania. So would Jericho have been just another victim for Gunther? Maybe that's not the farewell that he wants. And I think,

I think Raj hit the nail in the head when he said, you know, oftentimes J.R. says, hey, it comes down to cash and creative. Maybe that was the big differentiator here. But Eric, you almost said it's sort of matter-of-factly.

Like, hey, if it came down to, you know, a P&L and it's just a, financial decision. You feel confident that AEW offered more money than TKO. Are you implying that what was once almost like a bidding war, you know, between two companies and there are guys who are enjoying really fat contracts now because there was a bidding war. Do you think TCO in their present ownership structure and management chart that they have now, they're less likely to engage in those bidding wars again? Or do you think they just perhaps didn't see Jericho as the mega merch mover that maybe seeing or others would have been on their farewell tour.

I think it's a little bit of both. I do. I think TKO is in the position. They're managing. They're managing their revenue. They're managing their expensive. They're not going to spend more money than they need to. Somebody is going to have to sit back and say,

all right, if we were to bring in whatever talent, we'll use Chris in this example. But here's an opportunity. We can bring Chris in. We can put them on a farewell tour that's going to take. six months, whatever the time frame. So let's use two six months for this discussion.

All right. How much incrementally, incrementally, how much more revenue are we going to generate on television? Probably not. Okay. How much more money are we going to

generate in our PLEs? Okay. Probably not. How much more money are we going to make in merchandise? Ooh, that's a different. different story. That's a number because that's a collectible. Then you got a bunch of people sitting around a room making projections. And that was probably a pretty, if this went down, that would

have been probably a fun conversation to be in because you can look at what did Sina do. Okay? Let's say Sina did 10, just a number. Sina achieved a 10. What do we think Chris can do? there's not John Cena, but damn, he's Chris Jericho. So maybe that's a seven instead of a 10. All right, what's that valuation? What is that revenue look like to us that's incremental, meaning it's merchandise sales that we're going to get that we would not otherwise get. It's incremental merchandise.

It's incremental revenue. What do we think that revenue is? And that's what would probably have more of an impact on WWE's decision to bring in a talent and get into a bidding war than anything. And again, it's just a projection. You don't know for sure. Nobody has a crystal ball, but you can look at data. You can look at history, recent and otherwise,

and get a pretty good feel for what you can anticipate. And I just don't think that Chris Jericho, the financial upside, the incremental upside of Chris Jericho would warrant any kind of a bidding war, particularly for someone like Tony Khan, because let's face it, Tony Khan has a lot more to lose from a perception point of view. It's probably not going to hurt them financially one way or the other. But from a perception, because again, look at the same things.

How much more revenue is Tony going to create with Chris Jericho? Is he going to, are the ratings going to improve? Okay, arguably, yes. Let's just say they are by 10%. Maybe more, maybe less. Let's use 10%. What does that mean? incrementally to the AEW bottom line, absolutely nothing.

Might mean a little bit to Warner Brothers Discovery and ad sales, but it won't mean anything to AEW because AEW is being paid a license fee that's not based on ad sales. Now, there may be, you know, elements of language in that agreement where there's incentives and bonuses and things like that. But setting that aside, ad sales is going to benefit the network. it's not going to benefit the producer.

Paperview, that's a different story because AW operates differently as a business in this category than WWE does. Would there be incremental revenue in pay-per-view? Yes, there would be. How do you project that? I'm not really sure. But let's assume it would be pretty significant. That's the only way that I think Tony Kahn can look at Chris Jericho and say, okay, from a revenue perspective, just purely financial perspective, here's the value I can place on Chris Jericho and AEW.

It's probably not going to be close to as to what he's going to have to offer him to stay. But here's the truth. It's the perception. Can Tony afford to lose a cornerstone like Chris Jericho from a perception perspective? Just perception. Can't afford to lose him? Financially, yes, he can. But emotionally, can't.

He won't do it. He'll spend as much money as he can justify, which would probably be a lot, to avoid having to have coming off a time. I mean, how many days in a row can you wake up and see somebody that you used to have? Like, let's start with Cody.

He was there, punk. Danhausen for crying out loud. He was a guy that didn't see Dave. He was in a witness protection program in AEW. Now he's out printing money and merchandise. you got to put yourselves in the shoes of Tony Con and go, you know, I just can't, I can't afford another loss like that from a perception perspective. So he probably was willing to write a check that WWE would never write.

And that's a fascinating conversation. You know, goal alignment is something that Jeff Gerard talks about a lot. But I don't remember ever even seeing, I'm sure it's happened, but I can't, to AEW does not just hammer their merch commercials inside their program. They don't hammer their trading cards or their action figures or their t-shirts or their hoodies or any of that stuff. It is a wrestling program. And my hardcore wrestling friends,

they love it the most and I get it. Sometimes when you do watch WWE, it does feel like an infomercial. They're constantly trying to sell you something else. But I think the Danhausen point is well made. Like he, uh, he was a missed opportunity in AEW from a merchandise standpoint.

And I don't know that. AEW ever really. I know they have merch. I just don't know that it's a priority for for Tony. Eric, would you agree with that? It's obvious. Yeah. It's obvious. And again, this will sound like I'm taking a shot. Tony's goal, Tony's mission with AEW isn't, it has nothing to do with business. It just doesn't. This is Tony's hobby. This is Tony's passion. That's a better way of saying it. It's Tony's passion and probably has been most of his life. And he has the freedom to go out there and play in this world and not be under the pressure of having to generate revenue. He doesn't have anybody to answer to. He's got WBD to answer to. That's a different kind of pressure.

But internally, it doesn't really matter. So why would he put a lot of time and effort into merchandise. They don't really have any licensing. I mean, they did for a minute, but you can't go to Walmart and find any AEW merchandise or maybe there's stuff that's been in there for three years that hasn't come off the shelves yet or whatever or an inventory, but they really don't have a robust licensing program.

So there's no reason to promote it. It doesn't exist. Where would you go buy it unless it's direct? Tony's focus is on Tony's version of what a good wrestling show should look like on TV. That's the main priority. Everything else is secondary. Eric, I got to admit, um, there's not a Walmart near my house,

so I don't, I don't get to Walmart very often. And I do remember seeing photos of AEW action figures made by jazz wares in Walmart. Are you saying that that is no longer the case? The AWRA. I didn't see that at all. I didn't see that at all. What I said was, I have not seen them.

No, I, you know, Jeremy Paddleware is a friend of mine. He's actually, yeah, yeah, yeah, yes. He's actually an investor in Real American Freestyle. I don't talk to Jeremy about AEW business. I never have. So I'm well aware that Jazz Ware's, you know, has that license. But I think it's been a couple years since I've heard any conversation at all about it. I do go into Walmart.

I don't spend a lot of time in toil unless I'm in Tampa with my grandson, in which case I do. and I have seen WWE merch there, and I have not seen AEW merch there. It doesn't mean that it doesn't exist. It means that I typically don't see it. Dave Silva, producer says AEW Jazzware's figures are still there, very sparse,

but nothing like the past. So maybe that's part of the overall wrestling crunch, though. I'm not exactly sure. It does feel like at times the business has contracted. You know, Raj, I appreciate you being so patient with us as I was just beating Eric up with all these different questions, But I do know we have two other pieces of media that I want to talk to you about. But before we do that, Eric, we're talking about Jericho.

And I'm so fascinated that we're so far down this, this rabbit hole here. If you were in Tony's shoes and you've made the commitment to bring Chris Jericho back into AW full time and he's back with AW. We don't know all the particulars of his contract, we just know he announced on TV he's home. So with that in mind, you were once faced with the million dollar quandary of what do we do with Hulk Hogan. He's not getting these over the top reactions anymore. And we're hearing some booze creep through. It was kind of easy. And I know that's probably better, easier said than done.

It's like, okay, well, let's try the complete opposite. Let's try bad guy Hulk Hogan. But with a guy like Chris Jericho, of course, the heavy lift on that is you got to convince Hogan to be a bad guy. but with Jericho, he's not like a perennial baby face. He's been a good guy. He's been a bad guy. How do you solve this Rubik's Cube of you have an audience that has grown very familiar with Jericho and you're not sure how to best position him to get a response,

whether it's positive or negative. You're just looking for a response. How would you try to elicit that with Jericho right now today in 2026? Yeah. I would spend a lot of time. time with Chris, I would try to figure, first of all, I've worked in reverse. And I need to know how long do I have them? What's the goal?

Do I have him for a year? Are we running out whatever time is remaining on the portion of his contract that was frozen, which I haven't heard anybody talk about. I've heard people talking about the fact that he's been off for a year, therefore his contract was frozen. Now we're going to say, I don't mean to cut you off. but everybody keeps saying that very often. I don't have any inside info,

but I have enough to know. That's not a real story. So we can stop talking about. Contract expired at the end of last year. I think he ran out of dates. Maybe I betrayed a confidence there, but everybody understands when you sign a wrestling contract, there's a number of dates and then there's a time component.

So it's, hey, we've got you for X number of dates or X number of days. I think he ran through the dates faster than the days, and he had to wait until both expired. That's my understanding and send me an ugly email if I betrayed that. That actually makes sense. That makes more sense than just about anything else. So thank you for that.

So whatever, there isn't a finite amount of time that he's available under his existing contract, whatever that may be. I would want to work backwards from that. So once I know what that is, let's say it's 12 months. Now I'm going to think about, okay, who can I put Chris in a story with?

And I'm going to keep him a baby face because it Chris's stage of Chris's career, nobody wants to see him be a heel. They just don't. People want to celebrate Chris Jericho. Whether he announced he's on his farewell tour or not, he is. And everybody knows it, including him. So rather than trying to force a baby face roll on him, or excuse me, a heel roll on him to try to get a baby face over, I would embrace the baby face, Chris Jericho and try to figure out, number one, who's his

upon it, who can I tell the best long-term story with over an extended period of time, whoever that is? And I'd just focus on story. And Chris has got a good instinct. He's creative. He's got great psychology. He knows how to do it. What's going to get Chris over in his last portion of his run in AEW is the story that he's

involved in. If it's a quality story, it's going to be a huge success. because people want it to be. People want to celebrate Chris Jericho. You just got to give him a reason. And that's what I would do. I wouldn't worry about turning him a heel, baby face at all.

I just keep him a baby face. Nobody wants to see a guy at 55 years old who they've been in love with as a character for 25 or 30 years be a heel. They don't want to boo them. They want to cheer them. You just have to give them a reason. Well, you know, April's funny.

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And by the way, as always, please enjoy responsibly. And mega thanks to End the Cloud for supporting my 420 plans this year. So, Raj, we are right around the corner from WWE's biggest show, WrestleMania, but AEW's biggest show isn't that far away. Tickets are on sale now for All In and they're returning to Wembley Stadium. This will be their third event in Wembley. We know last year they did it in Arlington, Texas. This year, we're back in London.

How are things looking for ticket sales for year three at Wembley? Well, they're down a lot from 2020, the last time they went. So this is the third time in four years that they're going. And, you know, we've been, you know, there's been a lot of media about, you know, WrestleMania tickets being down from last year. And I think the thing you're seeing with these stadium shows

is going back to a stadium too soon. You know, it could be a bigger reason for WrestleMania tickets being down than the ticket prices, because that novelty is just not there in the second year. And here you're saying with Allend the third year, the first day sales, they did 19,883 tickets. So that's down 41% from the first day sales in 2024. And I'm sorry, I said 2023 earlier.

I meant 2024. So the first day ticket sales were down 41%. And so that event ended up at 46,476 for the, the attendance. So using that, if this event ends up down 41%, that would mean, you know, the attendance being somewhere in the 27, 28,000 range. I would expect it to be higher than that. Just, you know, I'm assuming we'll, Osprey will have a big part of this show. And we'll see. But will they get to 46,000? That's unlikely. Maybe somewhere in the 30s. but it's quite a bit down from from the last time that they went.

I think you've hit the nail on the head. You know, there is a sense of sameness of going back to the exact same building again. I know that it was there for WWE with them returning to Las Vegas. But I felt like it was there when they first went back to Wembley. You know, tickets flew off the shelves for the first time because it was going to be really the largest wrestling event that had happened there since SummerSlam 92. And when you announce, hey, we're coming back next year,

it's going to be to diminishing returns. But the idea that this is being celebrated like at some sort of a failure or a misstep, they sold 20,000 tickets the day the thing went on sale. Like, that's not terrible, Eric. My goodness. No, it's not terrible. But Raj, I think you nailed it.

I don't think there's any better way to contextualize this than it's just not new anymore. Everybody wants to be a part of the first time something happens. It's historic in a way. It's a party everybody wants to go to. And it's a party they kind of wanted to go to the second time. But no matter how much fun you think that party is, you've already been there, you've already done that. And it is still kind of expensive.

You know, the UK is expensive to go to the event. Probably given the sameness of everything, 20,000, I would be jumping up and down over selling 20,000 tickets. Who knows where they're going to end up. You can't. It's similar to what we're talking about with WrestleMania, you know, the second year in Las Vegas. It's just not going to be as exciting as the first time.

It's the newness is off. And it's probably even more so the case with AEW. Wembley. Raj, do you expect that AEW will try to continue the whole Wembley experiment after this year? Or will they move to different locations like will it be a stadium in America or another continent for the next all-in, or do you think all-in could just move indoors and do like a really big arena in London? What would make sense for you for next year for AW? Well, they did the O2 arena last year, and that sold out the last day. So, you know, it still wasn't, you know, sold out well in

advance or anything. You had mentioned the first all-in and, you know, how much the novelty with that and then going to the second all, and the first all in the attendance was over 72,000, 702,000. 265. And so that was a 37% drop from all in one to all in two, which was 46. So you go another 40% drop this year. You know, again, we were saying that's going to be around that 30,000 mark. You drop another 40% and it's no longer worth doing at Wembley at the stadium. Then it's probably better doing it at the O2 or like they did for all in Texas last year, you know, finding somewhere else to where you could host a stadium event. It's not going to do, you know, 40, 50,000, most likely, but, you know, unless they catch fire somehow. But it's not, it's, you know, last year's all in

in Texas, it 25,000. So, you know, doing a smaller stadium that you could do, you know, a number 25, 30,000, but I just don't think Wembley would be worth it to go to again anytime soon, just seeing the drops each time. The only way it's worth it is from a branding perspective. It's still, it's kind of like Madison Square Garden in a way. You know, when, when you play Wimbly, you're somebody. When you play Madison Square Garden, you're somebody from a brandy. And again, that's not a math. You can't justify it mathematically, but you can justify it from a marketing expense perspective or from a branding perspective.

Rise, let me get to another question here about ratings. You know, I know there's been a lot of chatter about the way Nielsen has changed their ratings. and I know that, you know, there were some surprises in there. I'm wondering after we've settled into this several weeks now, are there clear winners and losers with whatever changed with the Nielsen rating system? Yeah, I mean, AEW collision actually has been the big winner with this change. And it just kind of shows how unreliable Nielsen has gotten. Because I don't know if you recall, but back in December, January,

there's some episodes of collision where the numbers were. solo. We never even got them. And that last episode before Nielsen changed their methodology, that episode did a 0.02, 1849 rating and, you know, impact that week beat it. And then all of a sudden, they changed their, you know, rating system. Collision went from 253,000 the week before Nielsen change. And then the week after, they went to 653, oh, I'm sorry, 492,000 viewers. So a 94% uptick in 18 to 49, I mean in total viewers, and then a 250% uptick in 18 to 49 in one week with just how Nielsen changed. Now, all the shows experienced an uptick. Smackdown did 30%, 30% in

viewers, you know, viewers, 30% in the demo. Dynamite was 31% in viewers, 12%. Impact was 18% in total viewers, 33%. And then if you look at a wider range, It was still, you know, in that range. Collision not as big as 250% in the demo, but it still was 133% since the change from Nielsen, whereas in 1849, where dynamite's 50%, Smackdown is 29% up and Impact is 14% up. So for whatever reason, collision has just had a gigantic update,

and all the other shows have as well, but collision the most, Dynamite 2nd, and Smackdown and Impact. last when it comes to 18 to 49. And in total viewers, it's collision first, then dynamite, then impact, and then Smackdown. Smackdown is last. Eric, does any of this news about the way the Nielsen ratings have changed and how the numbers have been affected? Does this affect AEW financially at all?

And if it does, what is the impact? How does it affect things positively or negatively this change? I don't think it has much of an impact either way, to be honest with you. Again, AEW doesn't benefit from increased viewership in terms of ad sales revenue. You're not participating. So on that side of it, there's this big fat zero. Conceivably, there's a conversion of viewership to pay-per-view. I don't know what that math formula looks like, but there would be one if you spent 20 minutes thinking about it.

So a 10,000 viewer increase, for example, could equate to 100 more pay-per-view buys, which has a dollar value. Whatever that math may look like. So there's a theory, at least, that I'm sure on the Internet wrestling community they could spend months arguing about. But it's just a theory or an increase in viewership would benefit them. Beyond that, the only politically, perhaps, they're less of an albatross, slightly, because that programming isn't worth much anyway. Saturday nights are worth zero to advertisers. It's remnant time.

It's really advertise all the shit that they sell at a blue light special for the most part, or they use it for make goods to make up for dollars that they took in the past that they haven't delivered on. standard operating procedure. But your late-night programming is basically for remnant advertising, which has very, very little value. Perception, can we go to the perception? Perception-wise, if there's anybody that's on the fence

about whether AEW should or should not be a part of Paramount going forward, clearly any kind of good news or uptick in performance is going to do more good than harm. At this point, though, I think the question is, would it be enough? If it was dynamite, if it's a primetime show, because that primetime ad sales is worth more, there's a higher value to the network there. That's why they call it prime time. That would be a different conversation, perhaps, depending on how much, how significant it was. But at this point, it's all, it's good for the dirt sheets, it's really good for the internet wrestling community. But beyond that, I don't think anybody's going to change their opinion

from an executive perspective in terms of Paramount WBD. I don't think there's anybody that's in a decision-making food chain that's going to be looking at that piece of news. They go, what, wait a minute before we vote on this, take a look at these numbers. Be realistic. So, no, I don't think it really matters. And just to, you know, kind of just to, you know, state at one more. time. These increases aren't necessarily real increases in viewership. They're just Nielsen tweaking their methodology. So whether now is more accurate or before was more accurate or it's something in the middle. But it's just that tweak of the methodology changed these ratings so much. Now,

having said, Dynamite the past couple weeks has been up from the previous six episodes and all those episodes are under the same methodology. So you can make the comparison that Dynamite has seen a little some increase since revolution and they and they have some momentum. But as far as this gigantic shift that's happened since January 26th, when Nielsen made that change, it's just that tweak in the methodology and not necessarily anything else. So it just shows that Nielsen just making a little change here and there. And this happened last September where it went the other way,

where they went from higher to lower, now lower to heighten back to higher. 1849 isn't quite back to where it was. before September, but the total viewers is getting close. Isn't it amazing, guys, how much time we all spend half of, I bet you if you added up all the hours that we talk about ratings information in all of our shows, it's probably like 30% of our content is talking about ratings or more, right?

And here's the reality, and this is a perfect example to your point, Raj. we're trying to analyze fucking voodoo. These numbers don't even really mean, for example, if you look at a rating and says, oh, 720,000 people watch the show, that's bullshit. Nobody knows this form. And to your point, Raj, what this change in methodology has done, hasn't improved anything. All it's done was become, the list has become so transparently ridiculous, but it's all we got.

It's all we got linear cable. Streaming, those numbers are real. Those numbers you can stake your life on if you're the streamer, right? You have access to, you've got access to metadata. You got access to more data than people even know you've got access. access to. But Nielsen, it's the methodology. It may be real. It could be 700,000 people watch the show. Could be 200,000, could be 4 million. But here's the number we're going to use and then we all talk about it. That's kind of funny. And that is why when you see people try to

compare Nielsen ratings to the raw ratings on Netflix, it's just ridiculous because completely different methodologies. Nielsen is shown you can't. You, you, you, you, you, you, you just can't rely that much on them. You know, the same way as you could, like the Netflix hours viewed is probably the most accurate number out there because that is the actual number of hours viewed directly from Netflix. Now, they can change the way the views works, but the hours viewed is the most accurate thing out there, whereas Nielsen is just all over the place.

And I think it's one of the reasons why streaming as an industry is going to devour linear television and cable because it's the only way advertisers who the most important subject matter in this fucking conversation is the advertisers because none of it exists on television unless it's funded by advertisers. Well, if advertisers don't know for sure if they're really reaching their audience or not, but over here and streaming they can, I'd rather spend $100 over here knowing where my audience is and knowing I have one than spend any amount of money over here hoping that this freaking voodoo they're calling me

ratings actually matters and I think advertisers will force the change it's probably why Nielsen for the first time on how many decades attempted to kind of reconfigure their methodology because they're not able to

give you the data the streaming platforms can which means advertisers who are going to be risk adverse they want to know what they're getting for their money just like you do when you go buy a car and as an advertiser, I'm going to have a much better idea what I'm getting for my money streaming than I am on cable television or network television for that matter.

So I'm going to spend my money over here, even if it's more expensive because I know what I'm getting here. I'm hoping I'm going to get over here. Well, we always learn something anytime we hang out with you, Raj. Thanks for bringing all the important info and information to us. How can our listeners keep up with you each week? Just follow me on Twitter at D. Raj Gehry. And as always, guys, thanks for having me on.

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I would gladly recommend anybody. Y'all are a big help. And if I ever go to buy a house again, I'd go with y'all again. My name is Jacob Simmel, and I got into my first time with the team at save atconrad.com. In a lesson number 212-9-Equal housing lender. Save with Conrad.com. Eric, I don't know that you saw the news, but we kind of glossed over. as we were talking about WrestleMania.

John Cena is going to WrestleMania. John Cena, the goat of WWE, is going to be at WrestleMania. He's going to be the host of WrestleMania. They also announced since last week that they're going to be doing Kill Tony as a part of night one for WrestleMania in Las Vegas. Now, from the outside looking in,

I'm seeing all the negative Nancy saying, oh, they're adding all this to try to sell more tickets. Yeah, duh. That's the idea. They have a building that has a lot of empty seats. Not all of them are sold. They're going to add things to try to sell them. It's magic. But uh, but the idea that there's some

contingent of fans who are saying, I thought it was John Cena's last match. He can't come back. He's not advertised for a match. He's a host. And isn't that maybe the highest and best use of John Cena at WrestleMania? Like, make him a host, he can be in a bunch of segments. Like, why would you think

as he was in a retirement so they were going to fucking curate them for the next 20 years so they could resurrect them somewhere down the road. I mean, it's a good thing. I mean, I'm a big fan of the internet wrestling community. I know I say some harsh things and I know from time to time I may have a disagreement or so, but I'm really grateful to the foundation of the internet wrestling community because there's anything that makes me feel better about my own life, my outlook on it, even, you know, my native intelligence and things that I've accomplished. It's the internet wrestling community because they're just always such a source of ridiculous

stupid shit. You can't help but feel better about yourself no matter how tough things are than you have when you look at some of the stupid comments that come from the internet wrestling community. They are the lowest form of intellectual life in our civilization. But it's fun. And they provide great humor just because they're constantly coming up with the dumbest shit you could possibly say. Like, you know,

WrestleMania imported 25,000 people in Cleveland. At the Rosamania in Cleveland. Oh, I forgot to ask you about this. Come on. How could you forget some? That is, that's fucking history. How could you, how could we not talk about Dave Meltzer

pointing out on camera that WWE basically papered 25,000 people, not at a house show, not at a rock show, taping at WrestleMania in Cleveland, Ohio. Dave Meltzer. He studies

fucking history. He's a walking, talking encyclopedia. In fact, when people die in a wrestling business, they're next of kin called Dave because he's so freaking good when it comes to the knowledge and the history of wrestling. He does do a good book. A bitchwere, by the way. But the rest of it is bullshit. That's the only thing he's good at.

The rest of it is bullshit. And that is the hood ornament. That statement this week, we've got to, it can't ever go away. Oh, come on. I mean, clearly he meant 92 in Indianapolis. He got confused.

He missed him. I'm sorry. I ran over that old lady in the inner side. I didn't see her, but I'm sorry. I was confused. I was looking this way and driving this way. I'm so sorry.

What do you mean? He got confused. Well, no, I'm just saying, you know, like earlier, you were saying about Hulk Hogan, like, hey, in 93, Hogan wasn't even in WCW in 93, but your point was well made in that, hey, it wasn't really working for Vince either or he wouldn't let him go. I mean, the reality is if Hogan had him hanging from the rafters, he would have never went to WCW. But Vince thought, hey, this one's past its expiration date.

See you later. And obviously, what the hell has that got to do with confusing Indianapolis with Cleveland? Well, I'm just saying it's a major. city and he remembered that there was a major city that they did need a lot of paper. My point is, it was not history is this thing, but geography just fucking got right by him. Well, I'm just saying, I don't know how people see Cleveland and Indianapolis, but if you live in California, I could see how you would say, oh yeah, I got those cities confused. Like, I've done it before with Pittsburgh and Philadelphia, and I know they're both in Pennsylvania, but I've made

that mistake before where I would say Pittsburgh and I met Philly or vice versa. So I don't know, but I think it's funny that it was totally totally got by me this week i know exactly i knew exactly what you meant but i forgot to bring it up to you but you did not you had old cleveland chambered ready to go this week no i didn't i actually forgot all about it too and there's something that you said that tripped it in my head i go oh fuck i forgot all about that so i forgot about it too don't feel bit well as a reminder you know melzer was talking about how difficult w is is having this year the difficulties they're having filling the stadium and so he made the comparison to WrestleMania 8. Yes, if you're keeping score at home, that was the one where we all

thought we might get Rick Claire versus Hulk Hogan. Instead, they went with Hogan and Sid and Flair and Savage. The result was really soft ticket sales. That was one year removed from the debacle where they moved from a stadium to an arena show for WrestleMania 7 with Sergeant Slaughter. And that was a year after the baby face versus baby face. So it was a three-year slide. You know, I think most people agree. Five was the piece. the mega powers explode, Savage and Hogan, down a little bit for six with Hogan and Warrior, down a little bit for seven with Sergeant Slaughter,

down a little bit at eight with Hogan, not even in the title picture. So they teased it as this could be his retirement match. We know it wound up not being, but they pulled out all the stops for that one. And I think the overarching theme of this entire conversation, not just about WrestleMania tickets, but about all-in tickets and about ratings.

I think it's safe to say, Eric, that the boom is over. Like, I don't know exactly when the peak was, but it feels like we're on the downhill slide right now from wrestling as a whole. I'm not saying WWE. I'm not saying AEW. I'm saying we've all heard this phrase. All the wrestling business is cyclical. You've got your peaks in valleys.

I think all businesses are. I think we're pretty firmly on the way down right now. I'm not going to say we're in a valley, but we're not growing, I don't think. Do you? I mean, I'm not as close to it as obviously as I have been. Even in the last six or seven years you and I have been doing this podcast, I haven't paid as close attention to the business of the wrestling business as I previously had before a real American for yourself,

because frankly, I just don't have the bandwidth anymore. That being said, what I am sensing is more of a general audience kind of fatigue. because there's nothing that feels really inspiring. Cody coming back, that was like, holy shit. I mean, it had potential written all over it from the minute that news broke because of his backstory with WWE. And then obviously leaving AEW,

which was emerging at that point, at least in terms of awareness. So that was a big move. That was a surge of fresh energy into the industry. And boom, it comes up with it. I agree that wrestling is cyclical in the same sense that an NFL franchise can become cyclical. All you need are a couple of the right players at the right time to completely change the dynamic.

The sport doesn't necessarily lose interest. People don't necessarily lose interest in their team. They just lose their connection to it and how much they talk about it and how much they can. consume of it. But all it's going to take is that's the addictive thing I think about creative in general, but wrestling in particular. Because with wrestling, this is what makes wrestling so much fun to be a producer in. Even if you're in a shitty time, because you've got, let's, let's use AEW's case. In AEW's case, they probably, what are the average, about 2,500, 3,500 tickets per TV tape, or per TV show.

average, whatever it is. Yeah. Let's see 4,000 just for a number. You've got 4,000 people paying you money to give you information. They're paying you to be your research. Now, the question is how do you use them? How do you learn and translate what they're reacting to or in many cases not reacting to? How do you translate that and use that information to fix it to find the right approach?

Because with creative in general, wrestling in particular, because you've got that instant feedback, if you can figure out a way to use it and to analyze it and not just go with your gut instinct and well, I know what I'm doing and I'm a wrestling fan. I've been a wrestling fan on my life. I grew up in wrestling. I'm a second generation wrestler, so I know. That's bullshit. You don't know.

You know a lot if you're a form of. a wrestler about what goes out inside of the ring. You probably know a little bit of, you know a lot about the psychology of a live audience, but you don't know fuck all about how to grow a television audience. That's a different model.

That takes different discipline and a different approach. And I think if anybody, whether they're in TKO, WWE, on the creative team, or whether you're in AEW, you've got an opportunity to change what we're going through right now,

This is kind of a lull in energy. I think way too much is being made out of the second Las Vegas thing. It's an Internet wrestling community thing and a Dave Belzer thing. It's the tribal thing because it gives people who are AEW fans something to point to at WWE with a little bit of hope that maybe they're not going to be as dominant as they are right now. So we don't look as foolish by being AEW fans as we look because of it. So they're hoping that the playing field will level out,

even if it means the business comes down for the leader. It makes them feel better about themselves, right? So there's a whole lot of that conversation that's in the atmosphere that I'm paying attention to right now, which is very little. I don't think the business is going down. I think the energy related to it within the consumer base is probably suffering a little bit. but I wouldn't contextualize this as a down period or going into a slow period

as much as I would say, and I'll be honest with you. I'm not seeing anything that inspires me in WWE right now either. And I'm a fan. I have friends at work there. And I still, you know, proud to be a WWE Hall of Famer, proud to work with the company whenever I get that opportunity.

Very disappointed that I can't be at WrestleMania this year because I've got a conflict with Real American Free Sale. I was invited to induct Dennis Rodman. He called me yesterday. I can't do it. I wish I could, but I can't. And I just think what WWE needs right now is something that feels fresh. There is it.

You guys were talking about it earlier. There's a sameness. There's a familiarity. I talked about it in 2019. Before I even went to WWE when I was hired for a cup of coffee, I talked about on this show. You know, somebody asked me generally, well, what do you think is wrong with WWE?

And I think my analogy was there's a cookie cutter and a cookie dough recipe that WWE was using back in 2019. And it was working from a business perspective. It was working. You go back and look at their quarterly reports. It was working in a very big way. But there was such a sameness to it that as a consumer was like, Yeah, unless you're going to do something to wake me up,

I've got something better to do tonight. And that's where I think they are right now. Do I think that that's going to be long-term? Absolutely, fucking not. Has WWE proven that they can turn that around? Absolutely, they have. They've got a great track record. I just think right now at this minute,

there's nothing creatively that's getting us too excited. And the Internet wrestling community is pointing to Las Vegas because of their Pied Piper, Dave Meltzer, who confuses Indianapolis with Cleveland because he's really not as smart as he thinks he's, is he is a student I guess but whatever that's that's the reason why in in the internet wrestling community the feeling is well we're in a down period because there's nothing exciting for us to talk about well the whole world is going to be talking about wrestlingania coming April 18th and

19th if you're a real American freestyle fan you're going to be talking about real American freestyle tickets on sale right now the debut in Philadelphia real American freestyle coming your way, real American freestyle.com has those tickets on sale. Eric, I was so impressed with the event last weekend. You've been hammering it. I mean, I guess I've probably heard his name a year ago from you. Beau Bassett is going to be a megastar and a lot of people are learning about him and seeing him for the very first time on Real American Freestyle.

You want to talk about real history. I know Eric talked about the production stuff. Imagine if I told you that last weekend, a high school age kid beat a gold medalist. Well, I wouldn't have to tell you that. if you had Fox Nation. Go check it out. Real American Freestyle.com is your place to see this. And I see when they come to your town.

Eric, this was a fantastic catch-up today. We just talked about the state of the rassling business, but I did solicit a bunch of questions on Twitter. Here's what I'm going to do. I'm going to tell you right now, if you can hear my voice, leave a comment below with your question for Eric. We're going to jump on here next week, probably live at 83weeks.com.

So go on over right now, especially if you're listening on Spotify or Apple Podcasts and type in your browser, 83 weeks.com. It's just going to take you right through our YouTube. It's totally free. Hit the subscribe button and then turn on the notifications bell. So you'll get a live notification that we're live and answering your questions live. But we will be answering questions that are left in comments for this video. So look and find us right here at the top of 83 weeks.com. Drop your question and we're going to be doing them live next week.

Eric. This is going to be a blast. Next week, of course, is the countdown for AEW's big Canadian pay-per-view dynasty. And then one week after that, be here before you know it. It's WrestleMania season. It's going to be a lot of fun, Eric. I appreciate all the time today, man. We had lots of great discussion about Chris Jericho and what to do.

And I think a lot of people are going to agree with you that we're going to know how this run is going to go in a few weeks with Jericho. And I, for one, hope that he gets to end his career. as creatively fulfilled as possible. Like he's paid his dues. He's done all the heavy lifting. He's established a great fan base and incredible career. I hope he gets to go out on his own terms.

And I, for one, I'm kind of glad that we're not going to have a three-week build and then Gunther beats him and then we move on. Like, let's tell a story. I would really like for him to have a big final story, kind of like Sting did.

Sign me up for that. I agree with you. There's nobody more capable than helping to come up of that great story than Chris Jericho. And I, with you, I mean, for AW's sake as well as Chris Jericho, I really hope that that happens for him. And we hope you'll make plans to join us next week right here on 83 weeks with Eric this show.