83 Weeks with Eric Bischoff - Episode 424: Time For A Change

Episode Date: May 1, 2026

On this episode of 83 Weeks, Eric Bischoff and Conrad Thompson dive headfirst into one of the most talked about topics in the industry WWE's latest round of talent releases. Eric shares his unfiltered thoughts on the cuts and offers practical, hard-earned advice for talents like Aleister Black on how to thrive outside the WWE system and reinvent themselves beyond the company bubble. The conversation then shifts to one of wrestling's most unique breakout stars, Danhausen, as Eric analyzes the character's unlikely rise and what it says about today's audience and evolving tastes in sports entertainment. Plus, Eric weighs in with a strong take on TKO Group Holdings re-signing Triple H as the head of WWE creative breaking down what it means for the company's future and whether it's the right call. STEVEN SINGER JEWELER - Celebrate the mons who make every sunrise possible. Steven Singer's new Sunrise Rose is just $89. Exclusively and only available at www.ihatestevensinger.com BLUECHEW - Right now, when you buy two months of BlueChew Gold, you get the third for FREE with promo code 83WEEKS. Visit http://BlueChew.com  for more details and important safety information, and we thank BlueChew for sponsoring the podcast. MORGAN & MORGAN - If you're ever injured, you can check out Morgan & Morgan. Their fee is FREE unless they win. For more information go to ForThePeople.Com/83weeks or dial #LAW (#529) from your cell phone. QUINCE - Layer up this fall with pieces that feel as good as they look. Go to http://Quince.com/83weeks for free shipping on your order and 365-day returns. BETTER WILD - Right now, Betterwild is offering our listeners up to 40% off your order at http://betterwild.com/BISCHOFF  SAVE WITH CONRAD - Stop throwing money away by paying those high interest rates on your credit card. Roll them into one low monthly payment and on top of that, skip your next two house payments. Go to https://www.savewitheric.com  to learn more.

Today's episode comes to you from the Blue Chew Studio right now. When you buy two months of Blue Chew Gold, you get the third for free with the promo code 83 weeks at bluechew.com. Hey, hey, it's Conrad the Mortgage Guy and you're listening to 83 weeks with Eric Fish, y'all. What's going on, man? How are you? You're muted. I do that every time, right? No, I was just hearing you, you know, the mortgage guy, Conrad Jobs in the mortgage guy, I'm thinking, don't we have a new Fed chair slipping in the back door here shortly. Look at you. Yeah, I think it's going to be announced or made official on May 15th.

We'll be talking about that in the coming weeks. A lot of people have their fingers crossed for some positive change. I don't know what's possible right now with everything that's happening in Iran. But I think we're all hoping for some better economic news in the coming months, to say the least. I mean, I really do see a lot of these issues not to get political. We're not going to do that here, but just observing, you know, what we're all faced with every day. I really do hope and believe that the Iran situation is going to resolve within the next 45 days, my guess. And when that happens, there's going to be kind of a series of dominoes just falling one right after another.

All of them good. So to your point, probably not right away, but my gut, the patterns I've been seeing suggest to me that right after the first of the year there's going to be some one to be had. Well, we had some fun, that's for sure. Earlier this week, we were live on a Monday night, just moments before Monday night Raw. We were reviewing the Hulk Hogan Real American documentary and four-part series available now on Netflix.

And Eric, you lined up one heck of a special guest. He doesn't do a lot of interviews, but we heard from the one and only son of the hawkster. Nick Balea joined us or Nick Hogan in wrestling parlance. I thought it was a fantastic visit with Nick. And I don't know what I expected with Nick, but man, he exceeded. all expectations. It was great to have him on the program. You know, I know I've talked to endosium about how much I liked the documentary because

it showed, you know, so many more people, such a larger part of, of an important part of his personality that people often get a chance to see. And in thinking about it, that was kind of the case with Nick Hogan in our, our special is, I think, the nature of, you know, the relationship between you and I and the history and the connection and just the way we approach these types of interviews because we're not, you know, going for the dirt, brother. You know, we're not in that, you know, above of the love sponge vacuum, right, where you have to say something controversial or hurtful in order for anybody to pay attention to you.

We don't do that here. And I think Nick knew that because he does listen to the show often. Every time I see him at Real American Freestyle, he comments on something that we talked about on the show that previous Friday because I see him on Saturday. So I know he listens to the show and it's probably one of the reasons why he agreed to do it because he knows the angle that we come at these things with. So I'm really grateful that he did, but I'm mostly grateful to our fans, the people that do listen because they got an opportunity to see the kid that I grew up with.

And also for Nick, because I think it's important that people see Nick in the light other than the one he was cast in as the teenage reality team. TV guy, kid. And, you know, walking in the shadow somebody who has been as controversial as Hawke Hogan has been for the last however many years, really all of Nick's life, truly, just different degrees and different levels at different times. But to hear Nick come out of it so level-headed, articulate, it.

He's really mature beyond his age. And that surprised me. Not so much on the interview we did with him, but in the lunch that I referred to in the interview, there was only, you know, a couple months ago, it was the first time I really had a chance to sit down and talk to the next sense Al-Qaeda. That was something other than, you know, being around a bunch of other people at an event, like, you know, the funeral or the WWE Hall of Fame, or not Hall of Fame,

but ceremonies and things like that. Of course, I interface with Nick, but I never really sat down and talked to him. And when I did, I got a glimpse of what you all saw in that, in that interview we did with them. I was really grateful for everybody for that because I think he did a great job.

You know, I think sometimes what a lot of us, too, forget is, you know, we've all heard about and read about, it's almost become a trope in the last 20 or 30 years, you know,

the plight of the child actor. And I'm not exactly saying he was a child, but, I mean, he kind of grew up on camera. You know, in a reality show that we all know is not really reality, but how do you go and explain to the audience that you once said, hey, this is reality? And then later, you're like, well, not really. You need to know how the sausage is made.

So I don't know what I expected, but he was fantastic. And I'm glad that the world got to see the real life, Nick Hogan, because in real life, and what a big weighty responsibility this is to sort of be the forward facing face of your dad's legacy with a giant, you know, a member of pop, culture, a multimedia icon like Cole Hogan. And now you're going to be the representative and the forward facing, you know, voice of the family and the estate and all that. It's a weighty responsibility. And I was delighted that we got to hear from him and his perspective, but also show the world, hey, this isn't the water balloon, Nick Hogan.

This is the real life, Nick Hogan. And he's literally inherited, not only, you know, a tremendous opportunity from a financial perspective. We all know that. It's not, we're trying to dodge. But don't anybody think that that's coming free. Don't anybody think that that is not going to become a full

time. It is going to be Nick Hogan's career. Number one, the estate is pretty substantial but it's very, very complicated. And there's a lot of moving pieces. And you really have to know what you're doing and be surrounded. You have to know enough to surround yourself with

really good people who know what you don't know, who you can trust. That alone is a big challenge, right, for someone like Nick. But Nick has, meaning, because he's so young, he didn't come into this with a business background from Wharton, right? Right. But he's going to get one real quick in real life. But Nick also has an advantage in the sense that, It is pretty obvious to everybody.

I'm not suggesting I have any inside track on this, but I think it's pretty obvious that the WWE is investing in that Hulk Hogan brand. Yes, clearly. Let's be honest, they could have gone the other way. Yeah. Or just kind of slow plate it because we'll get to it, whatever. Not right now. There's other stuff.

You got to do this one first. You know, there's a lot. And some of this could be valid reasons, right? But for whatever reason, the decision was made, and I think, I mean, Hulk Hogan was the star of the show. And was pretty present throughout the entire WrestleMania weekend from what I've been told, just in terms of the different, you know, exhibitions and all the stuff that they did for Hulk over WrestleMania. I think it's very, very cool. And I think as long as there's that kind of connective tissue between WWE and helping to manage that license and creating those opportunities,

I think it's going to be an amazing journey for Nick. It is weird. You know, the entire documentary really told the story of how WrestleMania was largely built on the back of Hulk Coke. And this was the first WrestleMania without it. I don't mean like he wasn't on the card. I mean,

like, we can't pick up the phone and call the Holster and say, what did you think of WrestleMania, brother? So I thought it was really cool that WWE leaned into that. And I hope they continue to do that with major wrestling, luminaries and celebrities like God forbid. I mean, I hope rock and Stone Cold and guys like that.

John seen, I live forever. But if and when their time comes, you know, I hope that WWE rolls out the red carpet for those really foundational members of WWE, the same way they have Hulk Cogan. I think you guys will love our chat. We do talk about the documentary and it's always great to hear from Nick. If you haven't already, hit the subscribe button and be sure to check it out. It's free right here on YouTube. It's 83 weeks.com.

We went about an hour or so. and we took your live questions. Lots to discuss outside of Hulk Hogan though, Eric. This happened last Friday, and it is the worst part of WrestleMania every WrestleMania season. Everybody gets excited about WrestleMania season until it's over. And then it's almost like you can set your watch to it. You know that the business is going to rear its ugly head. You always have to make those budgets and you have to make those cuts. And they usually happen the week after WrestleMania. Last week was no exception. they did it at the 11 o'clock hour right before Smackdown.

So instead of a lot of people being fired up and having a discourse online about Smackdown, they were talking about these releases. A whole list of folks got released, Eric. I do want to run through some of the names. I'm not sure if you kept up with this, but Alistar Black and Zelina Vega, both being released. Those real life husband and wife, we know Alastair Black had some time in AEW. He's been back with WW for about a year and almost to the day of the one year anniversary of his return. He is released.

Uncle Howdy, who we also know as Bo Dallas, the real life brother of the former Bray Wyatt, who left us way too soon a few years ago. He too found himself on the cut list along with Nikki Cross, Rowan, some of us know him as Red Beard, Santos Escobar, Dexter Lumas, Motor City Machine Guns,

Apollo Cruz, Carrie Sane, Joe Gacy, Zoe Stark, a whole host of other talent. And I think some of these names are still continuing to roll out from NXT. But this is the end of the road for at least this instance with WWE, but never say never. I mean, Alster Black's been released before and come back. And Bo Dallas, I think this was his third run. So. And how about Eric Rowan? He's been in and out of there three times or four. That's exactly right. Yeah. Do any of these really, I mean, I know it's,

I'm not going to say it's a necessary part of the business because I don't pretend to know the business, but we have kind of gotten accustomed to, hey, this always happens after WrestleMania. So it's never a shock when we, see releases, but every now and again, some name shock us and we're like, man, that guy was just on TV. I think Alastair Black is probably near the top of the list there. Did any of the names really shock you? Like, I can't believe that guy's released. No.

No. No. And, you know, Alastard, I don't really have a lot of to comment on. Some of those people I've never even heard of before. So there's probably a reason why they got cut. And some of them obviously had been on television and been involved with things that I, you know, I'm unaware of it. I'm suggesting that none of them sell television.

But, you know, Alistair, well, Zelina, I worked with in TNA, back in 2012, 13, 14, somewhere in there, maybe earlier, I don't remember, but back in TNA, she was there, Zalina Vega, I think. That's right. Yeah. And Alistair, I got, you know, I, you know, crossed paths with is the best way to say it back in 2019 in WW. when he first came in. Paul Heyman was huge on him. Paul was like ready to put, you know,

blood on the table commitment to him. You know, he really, really saw something. And Alastra and I, and I was intrigued because Paul, you know, Paul's got a pretty good track record, right? Yeah. I was excited about something. Whether you like it or not, you've got to kind of pay attention because it's probably going to, you know, do something,

if that's something great. So I started paying attention to him and I talked to him a few times, tried to get a feel for, you know, where his head was at, what his vibe was like, learn a bit about, you know, what he saw as his character. And he's a very easy guy to talk to, maybe two, three times total. And impress of them, you know, he has, here's my take. My take is that Alistair has a very narrow perspective of who he is and what he is as a character, and I don't mean that in any kind of, not in terms of stature, but I think the way Alistair sees his character in his head is so narrow,

or in another way of saying that is he's so focused. There you go. A bad way. One way is kind of a good way, right? But they're both kind of the same thing. and because he's been in and out. It's not like people don't see the potential, starting with Paul Heyman, you know,

and Vince hung in there with him for quite a while. And then he went over to AEW. And now he's back, you know, in the market again. So it's not like that no one believes in him or believes he has a potential. But I think what people are finding out is he doesn't have the ability or the willingness or the comfort level, whatever you want to call it, to broaden that character

because the one he has in mind isn't working. If it was working, if it was working, he wouldn't have got cut. If it was working, he'd still be an AEW. It's not working, and it hasn't worked. So what do you do? Do you keep doing it? Or you go, maybe if I tilt it 20 degrees this way,

And how do I do that? Oh, I got to start doing this. I got to start doing it. That's way different to what I've been doing. Well, that's kind of the point. I don't know, man. I just think he's got all the, and I'm actually, I'm hoping he lands on his feet and finds that groove in a version of the character

that he's clearly kind of focused on because I do believe he's got a lot of talent. And he's got something special about him. It's a little hard to define. but you know, you feel it when you get within about four feet of them. It's just an energy. And it's not bad. It's not good. It's just, it's there.

You know, charisma or whatever you want to call it. So he's got that. He just hasn't been able to package it in a way and execute it that works for the audience. You know, I'll be honest. That's something I hadn't really considered because I know there's been some chatter. I wasn't there. I don't know. But the rumor in innuendo online is that perhaps some of his former coworkers

in AEW aren't necessarily jumping up and down at the thought of him being available to return. I don't know that's the case. I haven't talked to anyone in management or anything like that. But what you just said never really crossed my mind, Eric, when you said maybe he just sees the character in such a narrow focus and he's so focused on it that maybe he doesn't allow himself to be flexible about what the character could or could or could not or would or would not do. And so if there are some sort of hurt feelings or misunderstandings or disagreements,

it probably does stem from what you just said that he is maybe trying to be protective of the character. I mean, I don't know, but I never even considered it from that angle until you suggested it. Yeah, I just, I mean, to me, again, I look at, it's just business. It's not like, if I have to change the way I present my character, is that going to affect my personal life? Hopefully, from a financial perspective, yeah, you know, but it's not going to change who I am. Right. I'm not going to quit like and stay. I'm not going to quit liking whatever music I like. I'm going to hang out with the same people.

Nothing really changes except for this persona that I play with and get paid for doing so. But some people don't think that way. Scotty Levy is an example in my life, in my professional life. Scotty Levy saw once that broken, whatever the Kurt Cobain kind of manically depressive grunge culture, whatever that was for as long as it was. Man, Ray was just zeroed in on that.

And he was either going to make it work or die trying. And it just didn't. It worked for a small niche. It clearly connected within that small niche of audience. It clearly connected because people will still talk about it today. There's just not enough of them. Or it's a matter. So you get the local, you get the most vocal of that narrow percentage of audience that clicks

with that character, right? They're going to be really passionate about it. So passionate, they may not be interested in anything else, but it's not going to work commercially. And I think Alistair, in his own way, has got himself pigeonholed in a similar fashion. Man, that's fascinating. You know, I never really considered that because I myself thought, man, the Raven character could have been so much more.

I just don't understand. But to your point, maybe Scott Levy, the performer could have been, but he needed to be a little more flexible with the character. Maybe he did have such a defined, because I like the Raven character, but I know you did not.

I hate to put you on the hot seat here, but I'm going to ask, did you dig Alistair Black's character? Did you like the persona? Did you like the gimmick, if you will? No, but I didn't just like it enough for it to make me bias against it, meaning, because it's pretty easy to figure that, you can look at

that guy, which is just, you know, it's partly, it's a successful character when you can, you take one look at it and it tells you who that character is. I mean, that's ideal, unless you don't really click with that character, then it's like, okay, I see it right away, and I'm already not interested. That happens sometimes. It's, you know, whatever your taste starts, and there's no right or wrong. It just happens. It's no different in music or anything else, right?

You hear it, you see it, you like it or you don't. And that kind of dark, brooding, mysterious character, you know, it's a version of the crow character in a way. But the pro character has a story behind it. This is just there for the sake of being there because that's who it is. But it had that same kind of spooky aura to it. And that was Alice's, you know, that's what I saw. And what I'm seeing now. And it's just like, eh, where's it going to go?

Now, part of that, I could be biased because of my experience with the whole Ravens flock thing and all that and the sensitivity to it. So I get that. But I still am looking at that go, dude, you've been trying the same shit now for 19, six years. Whoa. Alistair, I know you're smart as fuck. Come on now. Tilt it. tweak it.

Make it different. I don't know why we're talking so much about this. He doesn't give a damn what I think. And we'll probably never listen to this. But I think it's interesting to talk about people like that because you know he's got all the talent in the world. And why isn't it being exploited? Eric, this is one of the best segments I think we've done it a long time because I was a fan of the character. I thought the guy was talented.

I didn't understand, you know, because we had heard and we saw how much time Triple H put into the character in the presentation in NXT. so it felt like, hey, Triple H is in power now and this is his guy. And you told us in 2019, Heyman absolutely loved it. Like if Heyman and Paul, if the Pauls are behind you, buddy, this is going to be a home run. So when he got released, I think a lot of us were like, oh my God, what could it be? And what you just laid out is something I never considered. And even though I may think, oh, no, this is a cool gimmick. I like the persona.

This should work. To your point, if it hasn't caught fire yet, maybe it wasn't meant to be. I do want to ask you about some other names, but I thought I loved your take on Alistair Black. I haven't heard that before, and that's why I tune in every week. I consider myself lucky the first listener. And we're all lucky that we know about I hate Stephen Singer. But you know what? I love moms.

I want you to think about it now. Before morning coffee and all the chaos, hey, before the day even starts, here's mom. The one who wakes up at sunrise, packs all the lunches, handles the carpools, and somehow keeps everything together. She is the sunrise of the family. And that's why Stephen Singer created something special this Mother's Day. His brand new sunrise 24-karrat gold-dipped rose. This exclusive rose captures the gold.

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And Stephen's new sunrise rose is just $89. Exclusively and available only at I hate stevensinger.com. Let's celebrate the moms who make every sunrise possible. Steven Singer Jewelers, that's I hate Steven Singer.com. Eric, I have to admit, and I hate to talk about it this way, but since we're being honest about our taste today, I did not like the Wyatt Six presentation. I thought these are very capable and talented performers. The presentation was just not for me.

I don't think it had connected with the audience and felt like a sense of sameness that we had been there, done that. But boy, the performers inside of those characters were tremendous. I think Gacy's going to be a huge star. I think Dexter Loomis is super talented. I don't think the world even knows how talent that he can be. Nikki Cross, I think, connects with, with fans and women specifically in a way that a lot of other talent don't.

I think she's going to clean up on the circuit. But Bo Dallas is the one that kind of shocked me. I'm not going to say that I thought he was going to have a job for life, but it did kind of feel that way. Bray Wyatt has become such a big part of the show, even in his passing, like the way he's been memorialized. Having Bray on the roster somehow shows some sort of, sort of connective tissue.

And I know he's tried a few things. I've enjoyed them all. Even the ones that we can all agree, those characters were a little silly. He did his best to make some chicken salad. And I thought he did a great job. And so when I saw that they were doing like theme park attractions last year around this, Eric, I thought, hey, this is a license to print money forever. And maybe they can do that just associating it with prey and they don't need an on camera

representative for that. But I, I'd be shocked to hear that this was the end of Bow Dallas and W. I think he's only like 35 years old. What do you think would be next for both if you had to guess? I think the presentation as a mess, not a cool idea. It was not only sane, you know, been there. It was less than. That's always the risky thing about trying to recreate something.

It very seldom is. as good as the original. And I think in this case, that was the problem. More than anything, nothing to do with talent, had everything to do with the presentation. That being said, I agree with you. And I think it's just a matter of, I don't know, you want to do, I don't know, I'll say,

just out between six months and 12 months, he'll be back. It's just a matter of going back with, it's similar to what we're talking about with Alster. Okay, that didn't want. work, let's go figure out something that will. And he can. He's a smart kid. He's been around the business this whole life.

He's surrounded by people that'll be very supportive and will reach out to help him try to come up with an idea and a character that will help him, you know, get his foot back in the door. That'd be my guess. I don't know him. Never said, never even said hello to him to my knowledge. So it's not any kind of inside or personal feeling. It's just he's young.

He's talented. he got settled with a bad idea. All the intentions were right, but the idea wasn't. And so we're back to the drawing board. That's the way I look at it. I do want to ask you about the Motor City machine guns. These guys were incredible. We've seen them on the independence.

We've seen them in TNA. They had just a phenomenal run in TNA. And there was rumor in any window that they had an offer from A.W. And then at the last minute, they signed with WW. And it felt like they didn't get near the opportunities that may, maybe people once one of imagined once in a time people talked about these guys like they were maybe the best tag team in the world we're talking about the real life chris sabin and Alex shelley motor city machine guns what do you think is next for them at this point is it best

to just feather their bed and make a home in t and a and and wind down their careers there and at least in front of the camera or do you think that they'll try something different mexico japan a ew something else i who knows but i i would think Given the opportunities that you just laid out or the options that you just laid out, I would hope that they would land in T&A. It's, look, ideally, you know, they could do a deal with AEW and make a lot of money and have some great job security, but then you're going to go into, you know, the witness protection program. And you may or may not see the red lens of a camera for a year.

and some people that should, you know, if it's strictly business, you shouldn't mind that. If I'm a wrestler particularly one towards the tail end of my career, which these guys definitely are, and I love of both, I worked with them in T&A, just nothing but 100% respect. And they're fun to be a rather good people. But they've been around for a long time. They're not kids. And they've wrestled a pretty, taxing style for a long time.

So it is what it is, folks. There's a clock and it's ticking for these guys. And if I were them, I think having the opportunity to go out and perform and do so when I'm still, you know, may not be at the top of my game, but I'm still respectable. And expect, I'm still better than most. And I'm going to go out there and have fun and make a couple bucks while I'm doing it. Hopefully they're in a position to do that. or hopefully they'll get a chance to go to AW and actually, you know,

get some focus on them. That could be too. And that would be the best of both worlds. But they're going to, I would think they're going to want to see some camera time. I hope that they get a proper farewell tour and they get as much, uh, juice out of the lemon as they can.

I mean, get it all. But I got to think both of these guys. They're so universally respected by fans and their peers as being really, really smart to the business. I mean, they, They're smart.

They're cutting edge. They work hard. I mean, universal respect across the board. These two guys, I feel like, are going to, if they choose to, they can continue to make a meaningful difference in wrestling behind the scenes for decades to come. Don't you think? Oh, 1,000 percent. I wasn't even thinking about that. But both of them, and again, having worked with them, you know, you get, look, do I know all of their potential?

Absolutely not. I had exposure. You know, we work together creatively to a degree, not to the extent that I know exactly how they think, but you get a good indication how people process things and how they articulate a vision and what that vision looks like because they're very good at articulating it in the context of what you're doing in terms of laying out a storyline. They're very good at that. And that is a skill set in and of itself. How many people do we know that are really good at teaching you the technical aspects of wrestling,

but aren't really that good at communicating the art or the psychology of it? A lot of them. Now, they know the basics, but there are certain people that are really, really good at that part of training, the part that happens between your ears, not the physical. part of it. They're okay at that, but they're really freaking good at this part of it. And I think Motor City Machine does either one or both of them fall into that same category. You know who else? You know what else did? Terry Taylor comes to mind. Greg Ganya, he really was good at coaching. He really did understand psychology as well.

well as anybody that I've ever worked with, heard explain psychology. He's really good, but he got in his own way with a bunch of other silly stuff. Mike Graham could. When Mike Graham's darkness didn't get in the way, you know, and by that, I mean, sometimes he was just resentful, like he'd see somebody young and, you know, struggling with getting over with the audience. and, you know, Mike's mind was, damn, I should be in there, not him, right? You know, I know how to do this up in my sleep.

Yeah, you're never going to learn it. There was just always that resentment that Mike had with him, and part of it was a Napoleon complex, part of it was the alcohol and the drugs, and part of it was some pretty, as we found out, unfortunately, heavy, heavy, heavy emotional baggage. All of that got in Mike's way. But when Mike in those moments or those periods of time, when they weren't hurting Mike, the darkness wasn't affecting him, he was really, really good. Really good.

Dusty, same. Greg, I think, was better than Dusty, actually. Dusty was more fun, but Greg could really paint the picture. Those are guys that, you know, they may or may not have been the best to teach the mechanics of wrestling, but teaching you the shit that goes on between your years, they were some of the best that I've worked with. Another guy you hold in really high regard has gotten a little bit of heat in the shadow of these releases.

Bulley Ray has gone on record with a pretty strong quote that some people are taking issue with online. Oh, yay, I can't wait. Here's what he says. Here's the advice. He was asked, what advice would you give these people have been released? And Billy said, I give them no advice. they're gone.

And then he later added, maybe you should have taken it more seriously. Maybe you shouldn't have put your feet up on the table. Maybe you should have shook hands. Maybe you should have been more polite. Maybe you should have busted your ass a little more. Maybe you should have cut a better promo. You've got five minutes.

Get over or get out. Now, I think in large part, he's talking about the young folks on LFG, not necessarily the main roster talent, but either way, that didn't get in the way of him receiving a ton of negative attention. And some people are taking issue with like the idea that Carrie Sane should have busted her ass more. And I don't think that's exactly what he's saying, but some people are interpreting that way. But as a reminder, I mean, it did take the Dudley's longer than five minutes to get over in WW.

They came in as the Bull of the Woods from ECW. But it took a minute for it to click in WW. And then they were off to the races. I don't know. I think this is rubbing people the wrong way. Is it the message that people are taking issue with? Because I've even seen people saying, hey, what did Bubba, bully Ray Dudley or Bubba Ray Dudley ever do? And I'm like, really? That's not the thing to question here.

So I guess my question is, is, do they not like the message or do they not like the messenger, Eric? I think the people that are taking offense and making any kind of the issue about this are socially divergent, mentally and emotionally stunted. That's a good way of saying it. And are just clinging together on this thing called the Internet wrestling communities so they can just virtue signal their asses off and get their opinions across and say things that hopefully

people who are just as pathetic as they are will all chime in and like and comments on what they had to say. That's what this is. And first of all, I mean, it's, look, bully, I'm guessing, I wasn't there, Shazam, I know it. I'm guessing that that interview was within the context of bully's involvement in as a coach. So let's first look at that.

that. So if you're asking someone a question in that environment or in that context, of course, you're going to get an answer that you would probably say to someone who is coming to you after just being released. It could be any one of a hundred things. Maybe you did walk by somebody that you should have stopped and paid some respect to and you didn't recognize them. You're on your phone or whatever. It was not an insult. Shit happens. But maybe that was it. maybe you just walk by that person on a bad day. Maybe that person was looking to see who is going to be the first person among all this young talent to make eye contact with me and say hello. Who will that be?

Because that person is going to get a bonus and nobody did it. I don't know. There could be a million things and that's kind of what Bubba said. Now, if it was in the context of, now, after however many years in the business, Billy Ray, what would you say to somebody who fell into this category? It might be a different answer. I think it was in the context of his role at LFG. I do too, you know, but I think what everybody's sort of hanging their hat on is it takes

longer than five minutes and one promo. Great examples of that are, you know, the ringmaster Steve Austin and Rocky My Via. Like it took those guys a little while to click and then they were cooking with gas, but they had to have the opportunity. And right now you've got an opportunity. The erectile function future is here. How about blue-chew gold?

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There's been a lot of call-ups from the NXT roster. We saw Saul Ruka, Ethan Page, Joe Hendry, Fatal Influence, Blake Monroe, Ricky Saints. They've all been called up to the big leagues from NXT and are getting some screen time on the main roster. have you paid attention to any of these? I'm sure that some of these guys have been on your radar before. Do you have any thoughts or hopes or dreams for these talent?

Because I know you had your favorites in this group. Yeah, I think dreams would be taking it just a little too far. But I think Ricky Saints is going to be interesting to watch. He's got a level of charisma. I mean, they all do. They're all great, great call-ups. And I'm looking forward to seeing them. Of the group, though, I think Ricky Saints is a guy that's probably, if I had to bet on who's going to make it to the top of fastest, that's where I put my money.

But I do hear a lot of good things about Blake and Roe. A lot of good things. So maybe, and it's, you know, not directly. It's indirectly. Stuff I read. But from people who I have a fair amount of respect for it. So excited to learn more about her. But what a great opportunity.

How exciting it is to be one of these talents. Knowing, you've only got five minutes to get yourself over. So get together. Come on now. Can I follow up at that, though? The one thing I do want to say is in defending bully because I am, because I think he's one of the smartest and most talented people I know. Bulley also knows how to push people.

to find the answer themselves by not by not saying nice things to them. He's not like the guy that's going to make you feel good about life. If you ask him what you've done wrong and why you aren't where you want to be, he's not going to make you feel good on the way to the answer. But he's more likely to give you an honest answer than most. So I just want to make sure I'm clear on that. I think we're all pulling for these talent that have been called up. I think Ethan Page has been ready for a long time,

I'm really excited to see him on the main roster. We saw how talented Blake Monroe was in AW. She had arguably the story of the year with Tony Storm. And now that we get to see her on the main roster of WWE, this is going to be a lot of fun. Joe Hendry has been on everybody's lips for a long time. I'm excited to see what they do there. Saul Ruka has been a superstar. I think she's going to take the WWE by Storm.

This is one of the better crops of call-ups in a while. And it is interesting to see how quickly some of the recent call-ups have have just burst onto the scene. Trick Williams and Obafemi feel like they've got a ton of momentum right now. And both of those people had big time featured matches at WrestleMania. They're on the freaking poster for night of champions on June 27th in Saudi Arabia. And they just came up. Speaking of another surprise that I think has caught everybody by surprise,

we've got to talk about Danhausen. Danhausen is a character that a lot of people maybe didn't get. And I understand that. But he debuted. There you go. Eric, you raised your hand. The very last day of February, I believe, was a elimination chamber. And everybody wanted to know what's in the box.

And we finally see it's Danhausen. And I don't think people understood, hey, the pyro is supposed to be less than. It's a gag. It's a bit. It's fun. But maybe people had different expectations. They thought it was some superstar wrestler making their debut or what have you. So managing.

Yes. Managing expectations was the key to life in that one. but what caught a lot of people by surprise, including WWE is over WrestleMania weekend. He was the number three merch seller on the weekend. We took him all of six weeks to do that. He debuted at the end of February and by mid-April at Russell Freaking Mania, WVE's looking around saying,

we got to restock this shit. He just sold out again. What do you make of this Danhausen phenomenon, Eric? I don't know. It's some kind of voodoo or something. I don't know. And I say that jokingly. But I would have, I didn't see it.

I didn't like hate it or anything like that. It was just for me creatively, it was like, what the hell are you going to do with that? I don't get it. I can't relate. Well, it's not for me. It is for a seriously large segment of the WWE universe, but it's not for me. And guess what? That's exciting. That's why you have people around you who can make really, really good high risk decisions. This was a high risk decision, but somebody believed in it.

Somebody saw that upside. I don't think they just brought Danhausen in and went, okay, here's what we're going to do. And let's just see if it works. There was somebody behind this who believed in it. That merchandise was ready fast. So I'm thrilled for him. I'm thrilled for the people out there that are kind of like him, meaning he's a fan. It broke in the Indies. I don't know his history, but I'm guessing he was a fan,

and he found his way into the Indy circuit, and he came up with this crazy gimmick and got freaking good at it and ended up at AEW, and somebody at TKO went, huh, we could probably make a couple hundred million dollars off of that. Call that kid up. And boom, here we are. I think it's a fascinating journey.

And I can't wait to find out more about it and good for him. I'm pulling for the real life Donovan. I don't know if you've seen his work before he did the Dan Housing character, but he's capable of doing other stuff. But when he did this gimmick, man, it just took over the Indies. I remember a few years ago, you and I did a show for Hornswoggle in Wisconsin. I don't know if you remember. He was there.

And I talked to him there. Yes, I remember. He had a line bigger than any. anybody there. Kids absolutely loved him and they lined up to give him their human monies. And none of them got cursed and we all lived a happier day. But I think a lot of people were surprised that punk was the number one merch seller over the weekend at WrestleMania. That makes sense. His first WrestleMania main event on night two. He's in the world title match. It is the main event. Hey, that makes sense. Night one's main event was the top merch seller for number two.

That's Cody Rhodes. Well, that makes sense. I mean, he's been the top guy for years now. and he's main event night one. Danhausen wasn't even announced as doing a match, but we knew he would have a skit, and boy, did he. But it didn't matter. Fans lined up to buy the merch, and Dave Meltzer is concerned that maybe WWE might be overexposing Danhausen,

maybe burning him out. Now, I know you didn't see Friday's episode of Smackdown, but they'd had, I think what you would call like a through line. So there were multiple segments of Danhausen. Instead of it being a segment of show, there were multiple Danhausen segments. And I know at times you've looked back at

as we reviewed some of the WCW shows through the years and you thought, I maybe was on this show a little too much. So here's what Meltzer said. I feel that Danhausen is great in small doses. And Friday night's show was not small doses. I think if you put them on a lot of the show, it becomes a turnoff.

To be honest, most people thought that would be the case. But with Danhausen, it's kind of a one-note gimmick. And it was just so much on this show. When the show was halfway over, I was like, they're going to burn this guy out. That type of gimmick is going to have a shelf life anyway, and the key is to extend it as long as possible.

Now, you have certainly talked about overexposure before, whether it was Thunder or too many members of the NWO and all those sort of missteps. And when we talked to Jeff Garrett earlier in the week, he pointed out that they had super Eric Young and, you know, they had black machismo J. J. Lethal and they had Shark Boy. They did have some over the top comedic relief. Do you think there's too much of a good thing? How do you find that delicate balancing act of this is the right amount and this

is too much with a character like this? No. I don't know because I didn't see how they used them so I'm reluctant to react to the comment in general. But I think if I step back and just think

in situations that I had some control over. How would I do it differently with a character like Danhausen? First of all, Danhausen's not going to be a week-in, week-out storyline character. I think he's probably going to come in and out of our television lives, maybe on a quarterly basis for a few weeks at a time and then he'll disappear. Gone, but almost forgotten. Until there's a reason storyline-wise for him to weave himself back in and make another

run kind of like the old territory days you can work a month in work two months in a territory and get in your car drive you know 600 miles to go do it somewhere else i think they can weave that character in and out seasonally um to keep the the cue of the character high the merchandise the awareness uh keep the cue of the character super super high so the merchandise stays up there and then two or three times a year like oh i don't know for sure around Halloween right so starting in September, you can almost be guaranteed. We're going to be seeing a lot of Danhausen, right? And then once that kind of comes, it goes, give it a rest over the holidays and,

you know, bring them back three or four months later. That's how I think they're going to use Danhausen. So if we're seeing, you know, what feels like a little too much of Danhausen, you might be, I'd have to watch it to see. A lot depends on how it's done. Is it entertaining? Was it fun to watch? Or is just Dave Meltzer, you know, sharing his,

freaking wisdom with the world for 1499. Or maybe it's somewhere between, I don't know, but I don't think I'd worry that much about a character like Dan hausen. Now, if Danhausen was a wrestler and he wasn't a character, meaning he was in, he's going to be involved in long-term active storylines.

Yeah, then you don't want to overexpose him. He's not that good. It's not that over in that role. but as this character, this entertainment pop, I'd write it. I'd see, I'd see how the audience reacts to it. And then when the time is right, just back off. We go back in 90 days. Maybe you're familiar at the big WWE convention that they do is called Fanatics Fest.

It's not just for WWE, but they bring in all the different sports. So they'll have, you know, basketball players and football players and NBA players and all the different sports that Fanatics has contracts with. They get them together in New York. They call it Fanatics. Fest, Eric. It's going down in July. And they put it on sale this past week. Danhausen was the first wrestler to sell out, his meeting greetings. Oh, isn't that awesome?

They've got. Yeah, let's not put them on TV. We don't want to do that. Yeah. Finding the balancing act is, is important. But think about that, guys. You make your debut. And people say, and make the comparison, this is the worst thing since the shockmaster. and six weeks later, you're the number three merch seller on WrestleMania weekend. That, my friends, is a power move. Okay, I got to know. Who said it was the worst thing since Shockmaster? Is there an author attest to that comment?

I mean, didn't you say that, Eric? No. Okay. Well, there were people online who were saying that it was the worst thing since Shockmaster. But here's what I know for sure. making your debut and selling out all the merch is a power move. Just like how hiring Morgan and Morgan is a power move. Morgan and Morgan is America's largest injury law firm.

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Eric, let's talk a little bit about some of the other headlines that are coming out this week. And I know that we'll probably catch up with Raj Gehry about this momentarily, but there's been a lot of speculation about WrestleMania and what's going to happen and what to expect or not to expect. I was kind of surprised to hear that not only is WrestleMania in Saudi Arabia next year on, but Night of the Champions is going down in June, June 27th in Saudi Arabia. Nick Conn recently held a TKO Town Hall, happened on Monday, and he announced that WWE is monitoring the situation in the Middle East,

and he also noted that WWE would only run Night of Champions in Saudi Arabia and would not hold the surrounding Raw or Smackdown events there. we're only going if it's safe or if we're allowed there, he said. We're monitoring with our heads of security internally and with our government affairs folks externally the situation there. If U.S. citizens are allowed in at this moment in time, it is declared and deemed safe, we'll all be going there. Saudi is deeply desirous of getting WWU back there and getting events restarted,

especially those that come from the United States. this report was provided to us by post wrestling. John Pollock and the crew over there do a great job, but I don't know what I expected, but I think this is about as good as you can handle this situation based on the wordsmithing. I know there's a lot of speculation and concern, but saying,

hey, we're going to monitor it and we're going to get advice for both governments. What else is he supposed to say? This is how you're supposed to handle it, right, Eric? I don't know what the option is. Yeah. To make a rash decision, because you feel pressured and just tell everybody,

no, it's off the table, we're not going to do it. No, you're going to wait, you're going to give yourself the time. And if you have the option and you feel safe and you've been convinced by experts that you surround yourself with that it is indeed safe, then why wouldn't you go? So I think he answered it exactly the way he had to and the way he should have answered it. Let's talk a little bit about Triple H, too. There was speculation going into WrestleMania that since he was the head of creative and since for the third year in a row, TKO corporate had interfered with the main

events of WWE's WrestleMania, their biggest show of the year, three years in a row. There was speculation, hey, how long is this guy going to really be here? It was like they're undermining him. It was like they've lost confidence. That appears not to be the case. We've got a report out that, uh, Triple H has, uh, signed a new long-term deal. Hmm. and this happened after

WrestleMania and of course there was lots of speculation about hey if Triple H were to leave who would be the guy to take that spot I mean it's not like Sean Michaels probably wants to do this on a day to day basis

he's probably got life like he likes it down in Orlando I can't imagine that the Undertaker would be interested in doing this I didn't even know that Paul Heyman would want to and I know that sometimes you know, the internet wrestling community can get really fixated on one call or one decision and Triple H is going to get all the praise and all of the criticism when that happens.

But when you take a look at the business, it's hard to find a business reason to even think that Hunter would be leaving, right? Well, you could if you wanted to, right? Numbers can lie and liars can use numbers and you could probably come up with if somebody he was really determined to, to, you know, get Paul out of that spot. I'm sure you could create a story corporately. That'll get you there.

I'm not surprised. I didn't know that he was up for a new agreement. Certainly not surprised that he got another one. And hopefully he got a race because I think, if anything, the last couple of WrestleMania is where you've had interference from people who really don't understand the audience as well as they think they do. Right. And I don't mean that with this respect because obviously Ari Emanuel and the people around him

have forgotten more about entertainment and connecting with the audience than yours truly will ever experience. That being said, he doesn't have as much experience with wrestling audience, which is a very unique audience. And I've known so many people from outside of wrestling who have excelled in the movie business, in the television business, in front of the camera, behind the camera, writers, directors. I've been fortunate over the last 10 years to really work with and get to know some very

talented people. But all of them, once they're exposed a little bit to wrestling, all kind of a to the conclusion of this is a very unique product. It's not as easy as it looks. From the outside, especially if you think you know how things work in entertainment, and you do, based on your experience in feature films and television and other forms of entertainment, you do have an instinct. Unfortunately, that instinct doesn't completely apply to the wrestling audience. There's been decades of pre-producing the crowd, you know, conditioning the audience in terms of format, expectations, psychology.

There are rules of engagement for wrestling fans when they watch a show. And if you're producing a television show and you don't understand those really nuanced but important rules of engagement to the broader audience, you're going to shoot yourself in the foot. From my perspective, completely unattached, you know, in terms of talking to anybody about this particular thing, zero connection to WWE, but as someone who kind of understands the inside a little bit, who's watching from the outside and seeing the patterns that I have a tendency to see, I see that a lot of people get sheer enthusiasm. You ended up with too many cooks in the kitchen

when it came to making these decisions. And unfortunately, the cooks with the least experience had the most stroke. Now, do we think that that's going to keep happening? Or do we think that this group of people are really, really smart are going, you know what? We really do need this guy. I don't know if anybody was thinking about letting them go before, but let's make sure he knows we weren't and take care of him.

I think Paul's position is probably more secure now than it was two years ago. I love to hear that. I do want to ask you, though, and this is totally hypothetical, but I am, I do want to ask, do you think that as we try to examine what WWE may look like without Triple H? Now, granted, I'm excited he's going to stick around for several years.

It's a multi-year extension. But who is the successor? Was the question the entire time Vince was in that seat. And so now that Triple H is in the seat, I think the natural question is, hey, who's going to be up next there? Respectfully, I don't think it'll be Bruce. I think Bruce will say by the time Hunter's done, Bruce is going to be like, yeah, I've been ready.

When you're done, I'm done. I don't know that, but just, based on how long he's been in and around the business, I would guess that he's closer to the end of his career than he is at the beginning. Just to guess. But I don't think that it would be Sean. I don't think that it would be Undertaker. I guess my question is,

do you think it needs to be a wrestler? I'm curious, you know, you found yourself, even if you weren't necessarily the head writer and you never claimed to be, I'm sure you took some criticism for being the, you're not the wrestling guy, you didn't pay your dues,

you didn't run the boat. all that sort of thing. I took that kind of heat when I was an announcer. I see an announcer. He's never released his boots. Fuck, an announcer. I think a lot of people,

and I'm not trying to make a comparison, but I think a lot of people treat Tony Kahn differently because he wasn't in the business. So that's my question is, and I'm not trying to make a comparison there. I'm wanting to know specifically about WWB. Could someone who wasn't a wrestler be in that spot? or do you think it's necessary that it be a wrestler in that seat? Absolutely not necessary.

In some cases, it can be an advantage and I've seen cases when it was a disadvantage. You have to be able to think outside of your skill set. You have to learn new skills. You have to be open-minded because things work differently on television than they do in the We could do a whole show about this. The fact that Paul came from wrestling and learned so much about television in the course of being at the top as a performer, working directly with Vince,

Kevin Dunn, being a part of the team. Even when he wasn't, my experience, going back to 2000, 2019, even when Paul wasn't a part of any of the creative meetings that, you know, either Paul Heyman had with his team or I had with my team, Levec was never in any one of those meetings. But when we showed up at TV, Paul was sitting right next to Vince and was co-leading that meeting. At least that was the strong impression and was involved in every conversation about that particular show in the production meeting.

My point in saying all this is that Paul was very, very integrated in the television process and was able to learn the business of the wrestling business from outside of the ring. So we had that balance. But there are people in WWE right now. Like if I was a decision maker in WWE and it was my responsibility, if Triple H decided, you know what, Steph and I are going to go be monks or whatever, we're going to go ride elephants in the Himalayas take our kids with us let's see the world what do we do and I agree with you on Bruce I think you know Bruce is at a point in his life

like I am you know where you're just like you know I'm like I got a couple more years I want to wrap this up because you know I want to do things right and it's it's a young man's business it's an 18 to 20 hour a day job it's it's not for somebody who's winding down in their career. Ed Koski. Ed Koski could take this position over like with a phone call. He's that good. Now, he'd take a team of people around him. You know, he can't do it by himself. Nobody can. And there are wrestlers like taker, like Sean and others, who would gladly be there as kind of a sounding board as opposed to day-to-day ops and dealing with R.E. and dealing with Nick Con and dealing with budgets

and dealing with all the things that Polovac has to do with outside of the creative, which is probably one small part of what he does every day. But I think a guy like, like Ed Koski, who's never a wrestler, who's been there, what, 25, 27 years, I've seen him run production meetings. He would oftentimes run either the smackdown side of the meeting

or the raw, I saw mostly overseeing Raw, he ran that production meeting from time to time, and he was good. He could get it. Look at Brian Goertz. You know, could Brian Goertz take over that spot? Absolutely. Absolutely. Could he do it all by himself?

No. Of course not. But Brian Goertz could take that spot. Clearly not a wrestler. So, yeah, I don't think being a wrestler is a prerequisite. it. I think in many cases, it's actually a hindrance. And you can certainly learn how to be a great producer and writer and creator and director without having to have brussel. Let me go one step further.

You know, I love you like you're my uncle. But I do want to ask, when you were announced as one of the head of one of the shows and Paul Heyman, the head of the other show in 2019, do you think that was because of your name, Cache and and it looked good on a presser and it was good for the stock price. And because it's not like you were actively a part of the WWE writing team and creative team at the time, but man, that did pierce a lot of headlines.

And I wonder, would a guy like a Bobby Rood or an Ed Kosky? Because they're both on the team now and very valuable players. Do they have the name cachet that you would look to for Wall Street of a Paul Heyman or an Eric Bischoff or something like that? Do they have the backstory? Because I do feel like a lot of times, People are excited to see Triple H in that spot or host them on their show or whatever because of his wrestling celebrity, if that makes sense.

Do you think that plays into anything at the stock market level? I can't imagine that to be true, but I could kind of understand how other people might think that. Here's what I think in terms of Paul and I. And us both being really announced at about the same time. hopefully I'm not saying anything too out of school here, but I'm going to be a little careful how I say this stuff, because I do have respect for people there. Sure.

There was a, there was a group of, I don't want to call them efficiency experts, but there was an audit going on. And it was, you know, it was one the board, you know,

it's like they were soliciting for, for companies like, Dulette Touche, for example, it wasn't them, but it was, you know, one of these really big companies that come in and just do an audit from top to bottom and look for efficiency and look for ways of streamlining things, efficiency, same thing, but looking at better processes in order to achieve more in less time, right? And it's not unusual at all, especially for big publicly held companies. It's more common than it is uncommon. I've been through probably three of them.

Three of them at Turner and I was part of the WWE audit. I'm referring to it as an audit as a consultation. But it was top to bottom, including creative. Now, this was something that from my understanding, which was probably secondhand at best, was that this company was coming in and reviewing the creative process. That was just one thing. They were involved in a lot of things,

but creative was one of them, including how Vince ran creative. And they would sit down with us, all of us that were a part of the process. I was new to it, obviously, but they still wanted my perspective, probably more so because I was new to it and maybe had a different view of it than everybody else.

and through a series of meetings, at some point in the conversation, I led myself to believe, let's say it that way, that Vince was not necessarily excited about this, that this was a board decision, that it would have been optically, perhaps not in Vince's best interest,

to resist, right? So, because a lot of it was, you know, we had several conversations about the challenge of Vince's, yeah, swing by at four, and it turns out being midnight, you know, consistently. And, you know, trying to figure, they worked with us to try to figure out new ways to do this stuff. And I honestly believe as a part of all of this Michigas for all my Yiddish friends out there, all of this was really done to satisfy the board or this group and say, see, we're doing what you suggested we should do, right?

I don't think there was ever any intention of Vince McMahon, modifying, adjusting, relinquishing any control of anything, including midnight meetings. But he went through the motions, and I think I was brought in as, and I honestly think Vince brought me in. And, you know, I need to call Bruce because I got a little pissed off of Bruce a couple months ago, about a month and a half ago.

I just texted him something and let it go with that. But I wasn't looking for a job in WWE. I never went to Bruce and said, hey, Bruce, do you need a gig? Can you give me it? But Bruce and I, in fact, I think we were at a convention together. And Bruce had just gotten to WWE and was so excited about it. And it was really, you know,

I remember Bruce talking a lot about how much things had changed for the better. He was so excited. And then I think that happened one week, and I think we talked again, and he was still kind of, you know, really excited. And I was excited for him. And he said, hey, just, you know, do you mind if there's some things going on here, how do you feel about me throwing your name and a hat? So I'd be grateful for that.

He said, look. Now, there's a subtle difference between me, you know, hey, Bruce, can he get me a gig and him saying, hey, do you, how about I throw your name in a hat? me going, hell yeah, because I needed the gig. It's not that I didn't need it. But I think, did I tell you all that just so that you have the background of what I was feeling, you know, at this particular time? My instincts are usually pretty good.

I felt like Vince brought me in and probably Paul, mostly because he had to satisfy this internal initiative that was going on for whatever reason. And partly because it was like, well, fuck it, let's just see. heard a lot about them, did some stuff, turned things upside down, put my back up against the wall. I think it was all because he blew Ted Turner's money, whatever, but let's just see. I think it was just Vince giving it a shot

and seeing if it really could turn things around. The mistake that I made was I wanted to come in slowly, quietly, kind of learn the system, evolve my way in the door. I think Vince wanted somebody that was either going to come in and turn shit upside down overnight or not. I didn't. So it didn't work. There was no reason to keep me.

He wasn't going to change the way he was doing business. He wasn't going to let the director of SmackDown direct Smackdown. That was never going to happen. And anybody that works with Vince knows that. What I'm saying is 100% true. So I think it was a little bit of a mirage, an exercise, but also there was part of Vince that probably, well, let's see what will happen. see what happened if I put these two guys together.

Maybe magic will happen. Maybe it won't. Obviously it didn't. I'm curious what this looks like, you know, a world without Triple H. It once was unfathomable to imagine WWE without Vince,

but hey, they're doing pretty damn well. How will they do without Triple H? I want to hear from you guys in the comments. Let me know. Who do you think is going to be next up? Will it be Ed Koski? He's been the right-hand man for what feels like forever.

Will it be Bobby Rude? A lot of people say he's the next Michael Hayes and he's a sponge. We've heard so much praise by him. Will it be Jeremy Borash, who's being tested right now with not only the work he was doing behind the scenes with NXT, but now with AAA, it does feel like, hey, is that something that could graduate into the big seat? And you mentioned the other name that gets thrown around a lot.

The Rock's right-hand man. Will it be Brian Gwitz? We wouldn't know from you. Let us know below who you think could be next to sit in Triple H's seat. But here's what's next for all of us looking good. Thanks to our friends over at Quince. You know, lately we've all been a little more intentional about what we wear. We have to be because it's a little cooler in the morning, a little warmer in the afternoons.

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All right, Raj, Raj. I's always excited to have you here with us on the program. Let me get into frame here. a little bit of an adjustment. Thanks for making time with us, man. There's so much news going around. But I think the biggest news that we heard yesterday was about CW. What can you tell us about this? Yeah, yeah.

A couple big things, two big things on the same week. NXT, their PLEs, you know, their deal with Peacock had expired. And they had just been doing them on YouTube. And I think if anyone has used YouTube for revenue, you know, it's a big difference, you know, getting revenue from YouTube as opposed to a TV deal. So they made a TV deal. So now the PLEs will be on CW. So on the CW network, people are asking if there are going to be ads or not.

I'm sure there will be. I think that's how they make their money. So I would guess that there are. And then today, ESPN Unlimited. They announced a deal with CW Sports. So CW Sports will be on the ESPN Unlimited app, which has all the WWPELE. So now not only will you get the WW PLEs, but you can also get NXT and the NXT PLEs.

It's basically, if you have CW, this doesn't change anything. You're still getting the NXT PLEs, starting with the Great American Bash this summer, and you're still getting NXT. But this is an add-on. So people that don't get CW for whatever reason, now they're able to access it with the ESPN unlimited app, they would get NXT and the PLEs.

So it's a great add-on. It's a value asset. for people that already have ESPN Unlimited. So kind of a positive deal all around. And obviously with that, the other things on CW sports like NASCAR, college football, bowling, all those things will be available as well. Raj, when will we know the financial ramifications of this? Is this not something we'll learn until the earnings call in July?

Or when will we get the information about what the financial end of the deal looks like? You know, the NXT deals, I mean, over the years, you know, when WWE, before they, were with TKO, during their earnings calls, you never got NXT numbers, really, like how much their events generated or those paperviews or the PLEs or, you know, how much the TV deals were generating. The only time we heard about it was this last NXT deal with the CW or it was around 30 million for a year. So we might never know because it is such small potatoes compared to the other deals that they have that they don't really get into it. Let's talk a little bit about the other big news, at least from a television perspective. Eric, I want your take on this too. You and I haven't talked about this today, but there's an announcement made that SmackDown,

which has been three hours, is going to two hours. And once upon a time, Eric, people were very critical of Monday Night Raw, expanding from two hours to three. They said critically it wasn't as fun. It was more of a chore to get through. Fans weren't left wanting more. It just felt, I don't know, a little bit of fatigue, a little bit of burnout. But the business dictated, hey, we're making so much money for that third hour.

And we've already mitigated the cost. Like the crew's already here, the ring's already set up, the production's already done. We might as well go ahead and take the money for the third hour. But now, Eric, there's been an announcement. SmackDown's going to be moving from three hours back down to two. What do you think of that, Eric? It's so ridiculous. It keeps happening.

It happened to me first. I was the first one that was, you know, the victim of the network, doing exactly what you just said, Conrad, was, hey, everything's already there. We got the talent there. And, you know, incrementally, an extra hour doesn't really cost us any more money. And we can sell 25 more ads. So do it. Because nobody understood kind of like I was talking about before with executives and people of entertainment that don't really quite understand the product or the audience with it. you just cannot keep 52 weeks a year the level of interest you need to sustain for three hours. You cannot keep it consistently throughout the year.

You're going to fatigue the audience. You're going to dilute the value of the character. You're going to dilute the impact of the storylines. All of the things that happen when you drag out that extra hour because it's brutal to fill. You've got to keep a tremendous amount of extra. extra talent on the roster just to fulfill the additional hour. It may not seem like it because you can't have the same people on every single week. So you've got to, you know, you think about it this way.

How big of a roster would you need to sustain a one-hour wrestling show 52 weeks a year? I'm guessing if you had 30 people, 45 people, you could probably figure it out. Well, that's the additional roster you need on top of what you need to not burn out your audience on the talent that. they've seen for the previous two hours, right? Just the extra load of that third hour goes well beyond the initial mathematical formula. It's not as simple as one plus one equals two. It's adding that extra hour requires more talent, more writers, more diversity. And by the way, you don't get any more time.

Now you've got extra creative that you've got to figure out, figuring out good, consistently good creative for a three-hour show versus a two-hour show is a substantial workload. It's not a little thing. And in order to do it well, after a certain period of time, you know, first couple weeks, yeah, we'll do this, we'll get behind it. We know how to make three hours work. And after the fatigue starts setting in the creative fatigue, the kind you can't do anything

about, right? You're just kind of running fit on ideas because you're freaking. burnt and you're using up the good ones you have on your other two hours. It gets to be a drain. So what happens, you start taking the easy way out. You start plugging in interviews that really aren't that necessary. You let matches that should go eight minutes. You give them 12.

And that's when it starts slowly but consistently deteriorating. And then everybody goes, this is too much. Let's go back to two hours. Yay, two hours. This could be like, you know, taking a week off. This could be great. And everything will be great. The ratings will start coming up.

The money starts coming in. It'll be like, you know what? We'll have a new executive by this time because they change. You go through executives like you go through underwear in the television industry. So by this time, because it takes about a year, year and a half, two years, to everybody settles in. I'm glad we went two hours. And then some new executive will come in and go, hey, can I get the ad sales team over here

and bring the accountant with them? And let's figure out how we can make. some more money off the show. And somebody goes, I got it. Let's just add another hour because we're already there. And you start the cycle all over again. How many times have we seen this cycle happen? Between

Nitro, Raw, and SmackDown. Over the last 10 years, I bet you this has happened half a dozen times. What do you think, Raj, this announcement, three hours to two for Smackdown? How will this affect the company financially, creatively? What's the feedback you're hearing?

Well, just looking at how it was last year compared to this year, it's almost the exact same scenario. Last year, with the first episode in January, it went to three hours. And then in the summer, last year in July, the July 4th episode, it went to two hours. This year, it's looking like it'll be middle of May when it goes back to two hours. But again, it started with the first episode in January. So it's similar to the last year. It went a little longer with three hours last year. So I've got to think, you know, TCO has never confirmed this.

They have confirmed that they do make money with extra money with that third hour, of course. But they've never said whether the deal was always for it to be three hours half the year and then go to two hours. Or if it's supposed to be two hours, but they do the third hour at USA's request as long as they need it and then they go back. So, you know, it's just one of those things. I think it's a big, you know, I think Nitro was the first show to. ever do the three hours. And I remember in 1997, there were a couple episodes here and there before they started doing it more and more permanent at the beginning of 98. And he, as hot as wrestling was then, that three hours, that third hours just always, yeah, it just, you know, it gets to you

and you saw it with Rob when they went to three hours permanently. The ratings just dropped. And instead of the rating building from hour one to hour two and pinging an hour two at the mean event, you would see it drop throughout the show, which had never happened before. So that third hour has proven over decades to be a negative. And so luckily for SmackDown, because they've gone back and forth, it went three to two, you know, now back to three and now it's going back to two, you didn't get the long-term erosion that you've gotten, you know, with like when Raw was three hours. So I think it's a welcome change.

anytime, you know, usually on Fridays, we're busy. And on a Saturday when I have my DVR and I see SmackDowns at two hours, I'm like, okay, I could, I could watch it. But when it's at three, I better hear it was a good show for me to go through it, you know, so I'm all for it. I think we're all going to appreciate Smackdown being a two-hour show rather than a three-hour show. We'll take a look at see how it affects the ratings. But speaking of ratings, I'm curious, do you have any insight as to how the Hulk Hogan doc has done on Netflix? I know it came out last week on the 22nd. It was about a week ago.

I don't know that that's enough time to get a real read, but do you have any insight? Yeah, so we basically got from Wednesday to Sunday. And for that period, it did really well. It was the four-part documentary. It did 3 million views and 12.3 million hours viewed for Netflix data. So it was for last week, it was the number one five show both globally and in the U.S. There was like 10 other countries where it ranked in the top. top 10. And so, yeah, ranked number five globally right behind the post-Resslemania Raw and

in the U.S. number five as well, right behind the PostMania Raw on that chart as well. So it did very well off to a good start. So yeah, yeah. Does it sound like to you when you're saying that, you know, there's this many people who watched it and this many hours, that all the quick math makes it feel like almost everyone who watched it, watched all four episodes? Is that the way you read that? Well, yeah, when you see the number of hours viewed, you know, when you got 12.3 million hours viewed,

it does suggest that people definitely stuck around for more than one episode. And, yeah, I mean, it was, you know, it was an easy watch, I thought. You know, I don't think it ever got too into the weeds, like I think maybe a lot of fans were expecting, but it was a breezy watch. It was easy to go from episode to episode, although it may not have been as in depth as, you know, some other Hulk Hogan documentaries in the past. Yeah, I mean, I've seen their criticism a lot on social media amongst the hardcore fans. They wanted more detail. But this was a product that I feel like was made for the masses.

Like my parents absolutely loved it. I don't think we needed all the nitty gritty granular detail. I do hope that what Nick Hogan said is, hey, they got a lot of stuff on the cutting room floor. Maybe they can do more with that. if this does well, I suspect they may. I do want to ask you about a Triple H comment, though. He was basically saying in this documentary, it was a clip from right before they did the SmackDown tribute show to Hulkster, just a few days after his passing, where he basically said something like without Hulk Hogan,

debt wrestling may have gone the way of roller derby or something like that. What did you think of that? Well, it's been interesting how there has been this big debate online about, all of a sudden you have some people saying, oh, Hulk Hogan is like the sixth most influential wrestler ever. It's definitely not top five. And, you know, when Triple H made that comment,

it just, it just kind of makes you think. Like, you know, obviously in the past, in other countries, there have been wrestlers that were huge, huge, humongous stars, Ricky Dozan, Santo, Lando's here. But how much Hulk Hogan being a part of wrestling in the 80s changed wrestling as we know it today. And, you know,

Triple H making that comment about roller debris just made you think if Hogan wasn't there when Vince did his expansion in the 80s, who would have fit in that spot? I know they mentioned Dusty Rhodes in the Vince McMahon documentary, but without Hogan,

does WrestleMania happen? Does it become a success where it becomes an annual event? Does Saturday night's main event happen? They get that NBC deal. And those wheels that started that helped WWF become the juggernaut that it became in the 80s and that rolled its way into the 90s and they kept those deals going. If those things didn't happen, would it be around, would it kept growing, gaining momentum to where it's, you know, getting billion dollar TV deals

today? So I don't, obviously wrestling would still be around today. You know, we're definitely in like Mexico, Japan, on some levels in the U.S. But would it be this billion dollar juggernaut. if that Hulk vince combo didn't work. And I don't think it would. I think it would be just very different today if Hulk wasn't a part of that expansion. I agree with you and then some by a multiple of 10. People can talk about these other wrestlers and the impact that they had, but the business, as we know it today, would absolutely not exist.

The way we know it today, had it not been for the team of Hogan and McMahon, Vince could not have done it by himself. He would have gone the way of Vern Gagne. He would have gone last because he had probably one of the more valuable territories at the time. But he would have gone without Hogan. He would have been gone by the early 90s. no question in my mind. If Hulk would have come along at a time where there was no Vince McMahon with a vision to take this company,

to take the product nationwide, to increase the value of the production quality, to present it as a spectacle, there is not one of the people that were promoting at that time. And I've worked with most of them and have met almost all of them. And I'm talking about the 80s now, early 80s, the Don Owens, the Bob Geigolds, the Jerry Jiritz, who's the guy out in California? Can't remember his name right now. It doesn't matter. They were local promoters.

In the local live event, a wrestling promotion business, none of them had the vision for television or seeing what we see today or a fraction of what we, we see today. In fact, they were all, including Virgana, who I was on the receiving end of long discussions about why he didn't think Vince McMahon would ultimately survive. Because they believed they thought the opposite of Vince. They thought the opposite of what we're experiencing right now. How in the hell does anybody think we would have got here if it weren't for Hall Cogan and Vince McMahon? You're freaking delusional if you do. You're not thinking clearly. Or you just don't understand the impact at that particular time. And you may not understand because I was in the business at that time,

just how fragile the television industry's relationship with professional wrestling was post a steroid trial and the collapse of WWE. There was a window of about two years in there because I was in the business, not necessarily the wrestling business, in the entertainment business, where I read, pay attention to listen to, meet people that had strong opinions about the wrestling industry and where it was going. And it wasn't pretty. If it wouldn't have been for Vince being able to pull the nose up and keep that successful cable television platform going to re-engage the market's confidence in the product, it wouldn't have lasted through the 80s. So, I don't know, it's fun to entertain yourselves and each other with those types of conversations.

It's kind of a fantasy booking thing. What if there would have been no Vince McMahon? What if there would have been no Hulk Hogan? But honestly, as objectively as I think a human being could be, that was in the business during that period of time. And subsequently, I don't see it happening. Wrestling would be small, little. It would be the indie scene that we see today.

Only it wouldn't be as successful. it would be a, the Indy scene would probably be a fraction of what it is today. Well, Raj, I appreciate you jumping on and catching us up about the CW and Smackdown. Where can folks keep up with you each and every day? Just keep following me on Twitter at D. Raj Gehry and thanks a lot, guys. I really appreciate it. Hey, I didn't mean to hog your segment. I'm sorry.

I just get passionate about this stuff, Raj. I apologize. No, no. I mean, I agree 100%. And, you know, Conrad, just real quick before I go, you had, you had, you had, sent out that on Twitter, those screenshots of the house shows in the 80s and I think early 90s. With whole those. I don't mean to cut you off, Raj, but let's make sure everybody.

These were provided to us that came online. It was on social media. I'll admit, I don't know the fellow. Muji Ka Parivar. Mohamed Wazi EQ, you is the person who posted it. But it's a breakdown of 84, 85, 86, 87, 88, 88, 88, 8, 8, 8, 8, 8, 8, 8, 8, 8, 8, 8, 8, 8, 89 and 90. And Eric, we're going to show that now and see if you can take a look at this

graphic and try to break down the difference that it made when you had Hogan on a card versus not on a card. So we all know that Hogan wins the belt in January of 84. We'll take a look at the growth the very next month. They ran four shows without Hogan and drew an average of $3,000. And then, you know, they ran two shows with Hogan and had an average of $15,300. And you could pick almost any, you know, of these different numbers. that you want. I mean, let's just go to right after

WrestleMania. We know that was March. So if you look at April of 85, 3,500 show, 3,500 paid on, on, on, on shows without Hogan, 8,000 width. If you take a look, the following year, let's just keep that same three line and go to April of 86 shows without Hogan. This is again, the WWF at one year after WrestleMania, right after WrestleMania 2, 5,800 folks there without Hulk Hogan, 13,800 with Hulk Hogan. Let's fast forward to WrestleMania 3. Right after WrestleMania 3.

It's April of 87. 3,800 is your average attendance without Hogan. 9,600 with it. Keep it going through 88. Now, at this point, they've transitioned, and they're going to be crowning the macho man as the world champion. So you see 5,700 fans. It's way up from the previous year in April without Hogan.

but with Hogan 12,000. That same story continues as the mega powers explode. Only it gets bigger. 5,800 without Hogan, 13,300 with Hogan. And we'll finally close this off with 1990. You can see April of 1990. You've got 4,000 without Hogan. That's the same month where he drops the title to the Ultimate Warrior.

But when Hogan's here, 6,800. So it does look like the high watermark for the Hogan years. if you just take a look at the month of April, which we did here for the purpose of this exercise, was 1989, and it fell off a freaking cliff without him in 1990. And this is, at least in the modern era, what most people consider the golden era. And I know, Eric, you sort of alluded to this earlier, you know, numbers lie and liars use numbers, or however that cliche goes. But this to me, somebody put some real work in and it's fascinating to see.

What do you make of this, Eric? You're muted. while Eric unmutes, Raj, what did you think? Well, the one interesting thing, too, is when you look at without Hogan, he's still kind of responsible for a lot of those numbers. You know, like a lot of the fans in the 80s, myself included my friends, and WWF would come in town and Hogan's not there like in New Mexico because it was too small of a market for Hogan to go.

We're going to those shows because it's WWF and we're in WWF because of Hogan. We're bummed that Hogan's not there, but it's the next big thing. So if Hogan wasn't involved at all, no, it's not like those without Hogan shows are doing those numbers. Those are still propped up because of Hogan. So, yeah, just, you know, his importance, I feel like a lot of people like to diminish it a little bit. And he just can't.

He's just, his, his contributions are priceless to where everything is at right now. what do you think of the in those numbers eric what jumps off the page to you that there were a lot of wrestlers who are really looking forward to seeing if hul kogan was on the card they were going to be on and vice versa no doubt because at those days you were paid on the house and if you were on a hulkogan house it didn't matter where you were you were going home with more money well that's what we're all hoping for bigger pay days we greatly appreciate you jumping on and chopping it it up. I'm glad we got to do that deep dive on the Hogan numbers. You know, that's not to say that there weren't other super influential people to the business, but in the television era, in the modern era that we're all in now, I think it's clear who was number one. That's Hulk Hogan. And you're number one to us, Raj. Thanks for making time for us every week. We appreciate it. Thank you, buddy. Thank you guys. Take care. We also think our dogs are number one. That's why Eric and I recommend better wild allergy,

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again. She's having a blast with the new puppy in the house. She's keeping up and she just looks happier. My mom even made the comment when she came to visit me. She just looks happier. Better Wild is committed to helping your dogs with science back, veterinary, and improved solutions you can feel great about. And right now, BetterWild is offering our listeners up to 40% off your order at betterwild.com slash bischoff. That's betterwild.com slash bischoff or up to 40% off your order. That's betterwild.com slash bischoff. Eric, let's talk a little bit about Nick Kahn. You know, we talked a little bit about that town hall that happened earlier this week.

It was on April 27th. So I guess that was Monday. the audio of the meeting has been making its rounds. And a former TKO employee has said that he loves when TKO does these town halls. The idea is that you get all the rank and file employees to ask the top executives without fear or favor questions about the state of the company. And they used to pass a microphone around like it was a press conference, but understandably a lot of folks don't want to be seen to speak out of turn to their bosses.

So they changed it to where now questions can be submitted anonymously. And one of those anonymous questions that WWP President Nick Con answered was how WW plans to address fan concerns over over commercialization and creative direction. And he actually cited this as a very vocal minority. He said specifically, quote, If you make business decisions based on online sentiment, just know what you're going to be making said decisions on a vocal minority percentage of voices. A vocal minority.

it's funny because Vince McMahon has used the phrase vocal minority in WWE earnings calls for over a decade and sometimes it's worked out in the case of Roman rains we know for sure that it worked out but I am curious how do you differentiate the difference between a vocal minority and the majority like how do you separate the difference because I know that sometimes Bruce has come on his show in the past and said well hey this guy would say I'm blow you know it's blowing up all over Twitter and then you would look and there's like 13 tweets and and Bruce would say well it's not really blowing up it's 13 people and I think that's a fair point but it is also a fair counterpoint to say how many other people feel the same way as those 13

tweets because it is a sample size it is not totally unlike at least in my opinion if you were to do like a test you know you see all this like a focus group hey we're going to show people a preview of the movie and we're going to get feedback and maybe we'll make adjustments and that sort of thing. Where is the line here? And what is the vocal minority and what's not? How do you define it, Eric? How would I go about defining it?

It would be, first of all, I would rely on objective data. And WWE has access to a lot of data, a lot of data. And I would look for patterns in viewership that would suggest that the that at the beginning of this period of time when we started putting banners all over everything and logos in the ring and the over commercialization, as the question stated, I'm going to go back and I'm going to start looking at the performance of the shows from a data perspective over that same time.

Did I see a drop off? Is it holding steady? Is it increasing? What's it doing? What does the data tell me? looking at Twitter or Instagram or whatever, social media has a focus group. It's, I get it. It's an interesting observation, but a focus group is only valuable if it's balanced

and representative of your broader audience. Meaning if your focus group are a bunch of nerds who follow Dave Meltzer and are really, really loud and they think they know a lot of shit because for years they've been paying him money to make them believe that they actually know something that they really don't know, but they feel like they do. A loud vocal minority of people that can affect your decision if you're looking at social media as a focus group because it's not a, it's not representative of the broader audience. You have to make decision at next level or at anybody if you're in Triple H, you know,

at Koski who we talked about you have to be thinking about how is the general audience going to react to this not how is this you know little microcosm of fucking basement dwelling nerds how are they going to react you want to you want to put your business in the hands of those people or are you going to look at objective data that's how i would do it it's going to be interesting to see um what this looks like moving forward because i was really surprised apparently in this call that that is out there. We're not going to play it here. We don't know in the audio.

But apparently, you know, Nick actually goes out of his way to cite some tweets and social media posts where people were saying, we don't want Roman, cancel Roman Rains, cancel the WWE network. This Roman Rains thing is never going to get over. It's never going to work.

And we know it worked out just fine. I do think that by and large, that's just passion coming from the fan base. And you have to appreciate that. Like they're really passionate about it. But I don't think the criticism is, I don't see the criticism, on the same way I used to, Eric, and I made this analogy not too long ago with Jeff

Jarrett. I feel like sometimes people view wrestling as just a TV show. And I've often made that comparison here where I would say, hey, I never cared, you know, how much James Gandalfini got paid per episode or what the ratings were for the Sopranos. I just love the Sopranos. That was it. I just plop down on the TV or on the couch on Sunday night and maybe invite friends or family over and we would all enjoy the Sopranos and talk about it. Then we'd move on about our day. Maybe there'd be a little water cooler talk the next day, but then we were on down the road with it. But I've realized that, hey, wrestling is almost like being a sports fan. It's part of your sports fandom. So now, if you were a fan of an NFL franchise, you're going to

want to know, how much are they paying Diego, Diego Pavia? For that kind of money, we need to get production. Hey, and look, his passing percentage, and they're, so even if you're a long-suffering, like my dad was an Alabama fan when it was not cool to be an Alabama fan, but he didn't care. he's an Alabama fan. If they're on, he's watching. And he's going to get the Alabama shirt. He's going to pull for Alabama. And he's going to get frustrated with the coach. And he's going to cuss the players during the game. They're still going to watch every single week. I think that wrestling fandom is a lot like being a sports franchise fan more so than being a television show fan.

Am I off face? No, I think you maybe even understating it. I agree with you 100%. I think I would probably take it a step further. And I've said this and I don't mean it derisively that I think wrestling fans are even more. obsessive, compulsive about wrestling than NASCAR fans are about NASCAR. And if I'm wrong, I'm not wrong by much. You get a hardcore NASCAR fan and you ask them a question about NASCAR, you better have a lunch and a six-pack because you're going to be a while. And I'm wrestling fans are the same way.

They're almost obsessive-compulsive. And I don't mean that to sound like it's a bad thing. I'm grateful for it. You and I wouldn't be doing this show. I'd be doing something else right now, not having nearly as much fun as I'm having talking to you and the people that are listening here and with this live on YouTube. It would not be happening.

So I'm, you know, keep talking, keep having fun with it, but also recognize it for what it is. And I think that's where, you know, like I've kind of, one, just because of my life right now is very full. and I just don't have the time recreationally to entertain myself with the sloppy nonsense that you find on social media about wrestling. I wish I did because sometimes it was fun, but I don't anymore. And now when I do drop in, the level of discourse has gotten so ridiculous that I feel, I feel dumber every time I read a comment. and especially coming from certain people that are supposedly,

they know what they're talking about in the internet wrestling community. It's like, I don't want to be in a room in case I catch whatever it is they got because it's that dumb. So I'm kind of losing my interest in it just because it's gotten so stupid. The arguments and sometimes the debates used to be kind of interesting, even if they were a little over the top. Now they've become less interesting because everybody knows exactly, everybody is an expert and knows the business.

And it's just, it's so stupid. The comments I see people make, Dave Meltz are amongst them, are just so ridiculous that I can't even entertain myself with it anymore. It used to make me laugh. Now I just make it to go, ooh,

I don't want to catch that. I think a lot of what you disagree with on Dave are just y'all's opinions. I think you just view wrestling differently. Is that fair to say? No. Well, definitely we view it differently. I understand it. He doesn't and pretends he does.

That's the problem that we have. He has zero understanding of how the business actually functions. He knows a lot about what has happened in the wrestling business. Yes. He can tell you historically facts and information of things that have happened in the past, but he has zero clue of what it takes to be competitive in today's world. and would be absolutely vapid in a discussion about where the business needs to go in the future. But he likes to pretend he does.

And con people, yes, Dave Meltzer is a con. Because he con, I use that because that's his favorite word. Anybody who doesn't agree with Dave Meltzer are more likely calls out his bullshit. He immediately turns them in. Okay, what is his go-to? Go-to is bad faith. You know, that's because it sounds like really educated. Bad faith is the most recent one.

You know, Grifter now he's, you know, beat that one up for a while now. But con man used to be his go-to before the internet, and Dave was trying to prove to everybody that he was cool and kind of relevant and using terms that, you know, the younger people use. His go-to was con man. So I'm just going to go with conman because it speaks today more than anything else. But his complete desire to discard facts, sometimes doing damage along the way, at least in some cases hurting people, emotionally,

some of the things he said about women in the past, all while trying to convince people that he knows what he's talking about. And he absolutely does not. He's the furthest thing from it. In fact, if you're running a wrestling company, Tony Kahn, I would call Dave and ask him what he thought I, should do and then do the opposite. I would run the other way.

And chances are the odds of you being right are going to be much, much higher. In defense of Dave, I think we both agree. He is a wrestling historian and he certainly is going to shine a light on good matches. That's one of the first things I used to turn to the observer and see, hey, what did he review well? And then I would go out of my way to find it. That's back in the tape trading days.

Thankfully, it's a lot easier now. I'm still an observer guy. I'm still a Dave defender, but we will agree to disagree. Something you and I will agree on, though, is Brock Recksteiner. He just got signed to the Titans. This is the son of Big Papa Pump. We know he played football right up the street for me, and Jacksonville State University. And of course, his brother Bronson is tearing it up in WWE as Bronbreaker.

I know that we're all hopeful that he has a long, fruitful NFL career. But do you think there's a chance someday in the future? Maybe we see Steiner Cousins as a tag? team instead of Steiner brothers? That would be fun, wouldn't it? Wouldn't that be wild? That would be so cool. Would that? That's never happened before. The second generation tag

has it? I don't. I don't think so. I mean, I know the Uso's technically count, but you mean, not like this. I don't like this. They're brothers, not cousins. I don't know. I think the cousin thing makes it different. Damn. Isn't that a photo?

I mean, take a look of that. If you're watching with us over at 83 weeks, you see, down at Jack State, they had Brock do a photo shoot with his dad's chain meal headdress and he threw on the sunglasses and he had a big gold belt on. Man, you telling me that guy standing shoulder to shoulder with bra and breaker in a leather jacket like Rick Steiner, maybe some headgear. I hope it happens, man. I'd love to see that. I'll be awesome. We're going to be talking a lot about second generation. We started the conversation today talking about Nick Hogan. Now we're talking about the Steiner's. I don't know if you saw,

but Sid's son says that he has made an offer to buy the Mid-South Coliseum. It's officially the most famous wrestling venue in all of Tennessee. It was the home of Jerry Lawler and Andy Kaufman and so many others. I mean, how many nights did they sell out there on a Monday night? It's been in a state of dish repair for a long time. And his goal is to make an offer, have it accepted, renovate it, and start running shows there again. He says if he's successful with his offer, he wants the first share to be a tribute to his dad, I would have never imagined that Sid's son would have become some sort of real estate developer,

but who would have thought Vader would have been either? What do you think of this report? I hope he's, and I don't know his son, Sid's son, but I hope he's got good guidance and he's surrounded by smart people. If it's possible, it's kind of a cool idea. Rehabing an old building. I love that idea. I think I told you once, I had an idea.

It's one of those million ideas that you have that you know you're never really going to pursue, but it's still a cool idea. I wanted to do a tabletop book about the historical venues around the United States. And the working title of the book is These Walls Can Talk. And to do kind of a pictorial history and a little bit of background on some of the most historical, whether it be entertainment or in some cases political, you know, the Madison Square Garden had the Nazi Party convention there back in the 30s. You know, there was some pretty interesting things that have happened in arenas around the country.

You know, the Rolling Stones first time here, the Beatles first show, you know, Shays say, whatever it is. Find those stories in those buildings that still exist and photograph them and tell their story. That would be a really cool approach to Mid-South, that opportunity. But it would take a lot of money. It would take a lot of planning. And I hope that if people are going to invest in this, They're smart people because it could also be a huge money pit.

Think about it. You're buying a building, an arena that has been in disrepair for a long time. That means plumbing. That means electrical. That means structural. That means bringing shit up the code. It probably hasn't been up the code since 1953. That's a lot of money.

And you're doing it to promote professional wrestling. on an indie level, it's a great idea. Please surround yourself with smart people that are looking out for you. That's all. Great advice. Next week, we're going to be doing something kind of fun. There was a discussion this week that Nick Con revealed during the town hall that WWE's been using AI a little bit.

Now, a lot of people just assume that that meant, oh, they're using AI to write storylines. I don't know how much of that is true and how much of that they were just using in a business sense like a lot of businesses are now. But we are going to talk about. AI next week here on the show. Of course, we're going to preview Real American Freestyle, which is coming up in just about a month. Tickets on sale now. Join them in Dallas going down on May 30th, Real American Freestyle.com. But I thought we would close with a little bit of

hulksder business. You'll recall Eric that eight years ago, you shocked the shit out of me. We were doing a tribute episode to the late Great Dusty Roads on the anniversary of his passing, and he called in a friend. And boy, did he answer. Terry Belaya jumped on 83 weeks. We've got about a seven and a half minute clip here that we want to let you guys hear since everybody's still really celebrating holster right now with this new documentary we'll close with that but Eric I'm looking forward to next week this was a great stroll down memory lane looking forward to talking about AI and creative next week and we'll do it right here on 83 weeks with Eric this show you know that's a that's kind of a running theme isn't it it's always

a third man well I mean there is I mean I guess that's probably our first it was our first show and the third man is maybe what you're most famous for with the NWO and you know we sort of joke about on Tony's show that we're like the six man tag team champions of podcasting because we've got Lois Chavani and we got to figure out like how to get your wife on here Garrett or maybe Russo we need a we need a third man here to do run-ins occasionally. Stand by. Come on Conrad. You know who the third man is brother.

Holy shit. ladies and gentlemen what are you guys doing cussing on the radio like this man but you can say whatever you want is this is this is this an is this an imposter is this is this will sasso is this brish no this is a will sassow brother this is this is hulk hogan brother who else will be sitting here on clearwater beach sucking down beers with eric bischop brother come on dude oh and i do that impersonation much better than will because i am the real thing okay wow mr hogan what an honor. Thank you for being on the show today, man. This is, well, one of the reasons I wanted to be on the show was I talked with Eric during the week and he told me you guys were going to be talking

about Dusty Rose American Dream, baby. And Dusty was just the man here in Florida had a huge influence on my life. And, you know, I was the one that said, Eric, if you ever want me to come on the podcast or if you ever wanted me to talk about Dusty Rose, I'd love to do it. So he kind of like open the door for me to be on the show with you guys. So thank you very much. Well, thank you for coming on, man. I'm not as prepared as I might normally be if we knew we had the greatest of all time here, but you brought it up. Growing up in Florida, Dusty Rhodes was sort of the man down there. What are your memories of seeing Dusty when maybe you were a younger fellow? Well, I mean, you know, it was like growing up, you know, when I hit, you know,

junior high school and right into high school, you know, Dusty wasn't that much older than me, but he was. you know and how old was dusty when he passed away i'm not even sure 69 no he has got to be a little little older than that but anyway i'm going to be 65 in august but all i know is when i was in ninth and 10th grade he was wrestling in florida here so i guess he started young but the thing was we watched him every single week on florida championship wrestling with gordon sully and if he was not on the show if he didn't do an interview We were just pissed because when I was in high school, you know, I had lunch and then I had study hall, then I had shop class, then I had PE. So the last half of the day pretty much was a waste and I didn't have to do anything.

So we would either wrestle at PE or wrestle in the shop class or on Wednesday afternoons, Tuesday night was wrestling in Tampa, the Armory. And I would go down there and watch Dusty Roads every Tuesday. and then Wednesday, right off Kennedy Boulevard on Albany Avenue, a place called the Sportatorium, where I eventually got my leg broken, my first day down there. I used to sneak down to the Sportatorium and skip school on Wednesdays to go watch him film TV there. So he hooked me from day one when I first started watching him. And if it wasn't for Dusty Roads, I would have never had the courage to cross the line and start approaching the wrestlers and say, hey brother, is there any chance?

Maybe I could work out with you guys because I used to follow these guys around everywhere from the cafeterias to the arenas and everything. But Dusty Rhodes was the reason. What was it about Dusty that had that magnetism for you? Well, you know, we had the promoter Eddie Graham and his son was a year ahead of me in high school and so was Steve Kern.

And we had a bunch of really good wrestlers here, Bob Orton Jr. We had Bob Orton's dad, the Big O, we had the great Malinko. And what was so cool about it is at that time, Vince McMahon and Vern Gagne used to share their main event wrestlers. And they'd send them down to Florida like Bob Backlin would come through here, superstar Billy Graham, Crusher Purdue, Ivan Kohl off. All the main event wrestlers would come through Florida. And they would all spoon feed dusty because he was there. He was like the Hulk Hogan or the John Seen.

at the time or you know i don't i don't mean to put myself in the mix i'm just trying to explain that sure he was the top baby face and and all these guys would spoon feed him so dusty was postured as the hero you know when i was a kid plus he he could fill the bill he could you know fill that spot they gave him it wasn't like you know he was weak in any areas he was a main event guy you know he he sold his ass off he bled like a pig he could talk you know what he did in the ring as far as his work. His work was on point. So he had us reeled in all the way.

And that's what really kind of like made me love the business so much was watching dusty work. And his interviews were just over the top. They were just so on point. And they related to the common man, you know, and to the guys at home and to my dad that were construction and all of his kids growing up. So he was the ultimate package for all of us to watch. and that's what got me hooked was dusty.

I'm glad you mentioned the promos because I think, you know, if you're really paying attention, you can see that maybe you had a little bit of Dusty Rhodes influence. You know, he talked about the common man like you talked about. And you talked about your Hulk maniacs and just the over the top presentation, there had to be some similarities. How big of an influence was he on your interview style? Well, he was a huge influence.

I mean, you know, the weirdest thing when I went back to work for the WWE, I can't remember when it was a few years ago before I got fired. they asked me to go down to the performance center the first day. I mean, I hadn't even been to a raw. I hadn't been, I hadn't been, I hadn't been around anybody. I just talked to Triple H and we made a decision when I left TNA to go back. And the first thing they asked me to do was go to the performance center.

And, you know, I wasn't even back in the door yet, but they wanted me to go to the performance center. So I went there and when I talked to all the people that were breaking in, I kind of told him it's really great. that you guys are innovative and doing a bunch of new things, but don't be afraid to steal stuff from guys from the past that works. You know, and I said, you know, like I heard Billy Graham say one time,

I pulled the bumper off a Cadillac and it went in one ear and out the other for the fans. But it was so good. I said, Hey, brother, when I see King Kong Bundy, I'm going to pull the bumper off a Cadillac jack and beat him over the head with it. So I said it. So people would never forget it.

And it was just, part of Billy Graham's rap and it was just one of his many one liners and he had a thousand of them and also with Dusty Rose when I saw him stick that finger up one time and shake that finger when they raised his arm I stole that from him so everything from the rap a lot of the stuff in the ring the way he sold the finger that I always would put up on the third time that was all Dusty Rose brother so he was a huge influence on me