83 Weeks with Eric Bischoff - Episode 427: What Now MVP?

Episode Date: May 22, 2026

On this episode of 83 Weeks, Eric Bischoff and host Conrad Thompson are pulling no punches as they tackle some of the most talked about topics in wrestling today. Eric breaks down what he believes is the biggest question the Most Valuable Promotion (MVP) should be asking right now "what's next?" Eric also shares his genuine shock at seeing Brock Lesnar back on WWE programming, and what that surprise return could mean for the business moving forward. From there, the discussion takes a serious turn as Bischoff weighs in on the difference between accusations and outcomes, reminding listeners that a charge is not the same as a conviction. The hits keep coming as Eric offers a plea to AEW's Mick Foley to stay out of the ring, citing the physical toll of his legendary career. And in a bold prediction, Bischoff looks at the cult popularity of Danhausen and suggests he could reach merchandise heights comparable to none other than Stone Cold Steve Austin.     THIS WEEKS SPONSORS GHOST MASTER RESURRECTION - Available now across all supported platforms. Choose to build your collection one chapter at a time or dive in with the Season Pass, Ghost Master Resurrection continues to grow into the definitive supernatural strategy experience. INDACLOUD - If you're 21 or older, get 40% OFF your first order @IndaCloud with code 83WEEKS at https://inda.shop/83WEEKS ! #indacloudpod BLUECHEW - Right now, when you buy two months of BlueChew Gold, you get the third for FREE with promo code 83WEEKS. Visit http://BlueChew.com  for more details and important safety information, and we thank BlueChew for sponsoring the podcast. JCW LUNACY - Juggalo Championship Wrestling drops BRAND NEW episodes of Lunacy every Thursday at 7pm ET exclusively on their YouTube channel http://youtube.com/@psychopathic_records check it out! MORGAN AND MORGAN - If you're ever injured, you can check out Morgan & Morgan. Their fee is FREE unless they win. For more information go to ForThePeople.Com/83weeks or dial #LAW (#529) from your cell phone. SAVE WITH CONRAD - Stop throwing money away by paying those high interest rates on your credit card. Roll them into one low monthly payment and on top of that, skip your next two house payments. Go to https://www.savewitheric.com  to learn more.     https://youtu.be/v0tor0ZYJpg

Today's episode comes to you from the Blue Chew Studio right now. When you buy two months of Blue Chew Gold, you get the third for free with promo code 83 weeks at bluechew.com. Hey, hey, it's Conrad the mortgage guy and you're listening to 83 weeks with Eric Fish Off. Eric, what's going on, man? How are you? Yeah, I'm Eric Fish Out, the Real American Freestyle and the Nitro 30th anniversary guy. I love this sweatshirt, I wear it everywhere.

I love that you're rocking hoodies in May. What's the temperature right now in Cody? I just quit snowing a few minutes ago. Are you serious? Yeah, it's probably 30. It's 82 here in Florida today. I know.

This, it's, you know, it's, you know, it's going to go up to 75 Saturday. So whatever, you know,

you just kind of write it out for $48 and it's going to be different. Well, there's a lot of big news that I can't wait to get your take on, but maybe the biggest news as far as the industry goes is a new announcement this morning from the Hollywood reporter. Scott Coker, who we know has an extensive background in all things MMA. We've seen him with a few different promotions. Well, now he's popping up with a brand new MMA promotion. He's got $60 million worth of funding behind him. And he's got a ton of big names behind him as well, including Kevin Kay, who once

Trans Spike TV and obviously helped bring MMA to the mainstream with the UFC on Spike way back when. And of course, he was involved with TNA and then later even helped get AEW on Turner stations. Tony Hawk, the skateboard legend is involved. There's some real players behind this. Have you had a chance to poke around and take a look at the new MMA promotion? This feels like this would be all over your wheelhouse. Well, it's really, it's interesting.

I've known Scott Coker since he was a. about eight or 10 years old. Really? Yeah, Scott Coker was a martial artist, and he traveled with a demonstration team from, I think it was San Francisco area, and that was head up by a guy by the name of Steve Fisher, who was a very, very successful amateur black belt on the circuit,

and I had competed against his instructor. I think it was in Chicago a few months before. and got to know Steve Fisher. And then in Minnesota there was a big, big martial arts tournament. And they all came into Minneapolis. And we all went out to dinner together. So Scott Koker was there as a kid because he was part of the Steve Fisher demonstration team. And of course, a lot of the other black belts from his school.

So that's how I first met Scott through that martial arts participation. And then obviously later on, watched what he was doing in Strike Force. very supportive of them. I stayed in contact. We always got along with Scott's respect the hell out of him. He's got a lot of integrity. He's a very knowledgeable guy. Straight up, straight up, straight up,

straight up human being. So, you know, pretty familiar with Scott. Pretty familiar with Kevin Kaye through, because Kevin Kaye was the head of the network where TNA was. and all of the big initiatives once twice a year that had to be pitched to the network, I would generally be a part of that team along with Dixie. Obviously, I wasn't flying solo on that,

but I was part of that process for sure. So I got to work with Kevin a lot, and there's a few other people involved that I'm familiar with. So it's definitely a highly pedigreeed team, a very, very knowledgeable and influential, influential in terms of securing a media deal, Kevin K. That's probably his, I'm guessing, don't know, his focus, as well as getting the TV side of the equation figured out.

And he's got a lot of experience with Bellator. I would not be surprised to see a production, a head of production slash executive producer by the name of Scott Fishman to tag into this product. That's a prediction. It's not any inside information. but I know Scott Fishman really well. He was our network executive at T&A.

So he represented the network. So we worked directly with Scott Fishman would be in the booking, not in the booking meetings in Nashville, but he would be in the production meetings. He technically had approval from the network side of the equation to a lot of things, but had a lot to do with the physical production of the show in terms of overseeing it and executing it.

I would not be surprised to see fishermen tag into this relatively quickly. Scott's got a lot of great hands-on experience. He's worked with Kevin Kaye going all the way back, I believe, to Kevin Kay's hitmaker days at Biocom. I think he was very, very instrumental, if didn't lead the Nickelodeon franchise to success. So Kevin Kay has got a lot of traction in the world of media. and by traction, I mean, context and influence. So a lot of smart people headed up by a great human being and a very, very smart promoter.

I think the town, you know, fighters have a lot of respect for Scott. So, um, keep your eye out. There is lots of wrestling stuff to talk about, but let's talk about something wrestling adjacent. This past weekend, there was a monster event put on by MVP. That's Jake Paul's promotion. It was on Netflix and they hit like 17. million viewers for Rhonda Rousey and Gina Carrano.

This was a dream match from, I don't know, more than 15 years ago, but it finally happened. And it was a feel good moment for both Gina and for Rhonda. But there was a little bit of backlash online with maybe people who don't normally watch MMA or weren't really familiar with Ronda Rousey's MMA style or the way all of her fights have ended. It was a quick one, but all of Ronda's fights were. and there were two that went a little longer but even those two that she lost i mean they were still relatively quick i think people had a managing expectations was not done here i mean

gina admitted she had to lose a hundred pounds to fight and her last fight was 2009 that was during the first year of obama that's all you need to say right there that that actually sums it all up What you said. She hadn't fought in 17 freaking years. Yes. That's like a lifetime. It's 27 years old to 44 years old, Eric. It's,

it's, it was, it was a look, I watched. We all did. I was not. I wasn't angry about it. I was, I was disappointed because I wanted to see.

if Ronda could live up to her hype. I watched Ronda's striking workouts. It was the most unathletic, horrible. I thought, well, she must be working. She must be wanting people to think she doesn't have good hands. So maybe she secretly does. We're not going to see it until the fight. So she's going to come out there and make it look like she's never,

ever trained in her life for striking other than, you know, what she's had to do, you know, to get into a position to throw judah holds or whatever she's going to do her moves. So I just want to see maybe she, maybe I want to, you know, half glass full. Maybe she's really up her game. I wanted to see her hands. I wanted to see if she was as good as she made it look like she was or tried to. Gina, I didn't know what to expect from her. I didn't have high expectations.

I didn't have low expectations. I honestly didn't realize it had been 17 years before she, said she had fought until I heard the commentators talking about it during the fight. Had I known, I probably wouldn't have stayed up as late to watch it. Horrible, horrible. Good for them. Good for them. Maybe some people liked it because of the feel good, you know, the relationship between the two.

And it was it was heartwarming. It made me feel good. You know, you like to see that. You like to see the idea of two people going out there beating a dog shitty out of each other. And then, you know, once it's over, it's over. and I'll go grab a beer. It's kind of like, you know, the way it's supposed to be in real life.

So seeing it play out in the cage is kind of a cool thing. We like that. But, man, 17 seconds, I'm sorry. All that build up for 17 seconds. Yeah. And the production values, since you didn't ask, I really tuned in because I want to see, what a great opportunity.

Netflix, global footprint. Wow. Definitely, you know people are going to be tuning in to see how this is going to play out. So great opportunity. Moi, not well, not well produced across the board. I don't want to get in specifics and nitpick, but just overall, I was like, man, we look really good over a real American free style right now. They're really good. Well, I appreciate you saying that. You know, we always want your perspective from a television standpoint. And obviously, this is

something that is going to be, you know, close to your new world. You know, I'm not saying that MMA and wrestling are the exact same thing, but, you know, Francis Nagano and Junior Dos Santos and Mike Perry from Bear Knuckle and Nate Diaz, there's a lot of star power here. And I guess they're going to do another event. I understand that they've got another one coming up with Holly home. Obviously, that won't be as big as this. So maybe MVP is going to do a few of these, but does this change the landscape? I mean, we know that PFL is still out there. We know that the UFC is killing it.

They're over on Paramount. But maybe there's an opportunity. I mean, Scott Coker is certainly hoping so. Jake Paul certainly hope so. What do you see when you take a step back and you look at it from like a 30,000 flight view? What are you seeing? What are the tea leaves telling you about MMA and what the appetite is,

but the revenue opportunity? I've got a hard out in about an hour and a half, but I really want to talk about this, just giving you a fair warning. If you think about the parallel, the time when WWE was the WVF was the monster, way, way, way down at the bottom, you had WCW, which was, you know, technically number two, but, you know, I've said it before. Might as well have been 222. and then you had these other little wrestling organizations.

And then the audience got bored. There was so much dominance by WWF, it created an opportunity for WCW. Granted, we had to figure out a way to make it work, and I'm not here to blow my own smoke. I do that enough, for God's sake, give it up, Eric. But fact remains, there was a point in time when the audience, when it was this company was so dominant, this brand was so dominant, things started, there became a feeling of sameness to it. That opened the door for WCW, along with a lot of other things in TED and blah, blah, blah, blah. And that chow, boom, that lifted all boats. Right. WCW went away. Now you've got

WWE again until about 2019. Same situation, right? Dominant, dominant, dominant, dominant, dominant, the only source of content that everybody's hooked on. Oh, we're getting a little bored with it. Same old, same old, same old. Maybe people are getting a little bit lazy. Maybe what Eric Bishop says all the time on social media, comfort is a thief. And that's a very true statement. And appropriate in this example, because when you get too comfortable, there becomes a sameness of familiarity, which kind of starts to bore the brand. Enter AEW 2019. Ah, the competitor and alternative. Everybody's excited about it until they weren't. So this cycle of dominant brand audience down here, boredom, new kid on the block, excitement. We've seen this before and it continues to happen.

Maybe it always will. I think there's cycles in terms of, for example, WWE's ability, perhaps. There's a cycle to, in a rhythmic nature, to the peaks of storylines. They're not all going to be peak storylines, even your A stories. That's not real. But if you've got a good rhythm where every two months, every six months, or once a year, you're creating that one beat that drives 70 or 80% of your revenue, because that's usually what happens in most areas of revenue generation. You know, 20% of your content is going to generate 80% of your revenue or sales or whatever.

that applies here too. So I think there's a perfect cycle. Now, how does that relate to what's going on here? I think UFC has been so big for so long and so dominant that the same feeling that the wrestling audience had in 2019 when AEW first started becoming a thing in the zeitgeist, there was that level of enthusiasm. That creates an opportunity, just like it did for Tony Khan.

Now it's creating an opportunity for MVP, and as of this morning's press, Scott Coker. What will happen? It all depends on the quality of the product. If Scott delivers a great product that feels competitive with UFC because they're more competitive matches, that was a big gripe, I think, on the MVP promotion,

is it was nothing competitive. Every one of them was lopsided. So, and that's other commentators points of view, not just mine. Ben Aspen basically said the same thing. Knows a little bit about the game, obviously, and also a part of RAA.A. Thank you. I think the same opportunity to exist now. Now the key is, much like WCW was able to do, find, crack the code.

What do you need to deliver that is missing from the incumbent's product? UFC in this case, what is missing? What do you need to create some loyalty for your brand and get some crossover? Get them to check you out. What are you going to do that's going to differentiate you? I think my take right now, Scott Cooker, this is what I know from I'm really on the outside looking at. I don't have my finger on this bus whatsoever.

I don't want anybody to think I'm trying to convince you I do. I just happen to have a feel for this. But no, I'm going to let it go out there. I'm getting too deep into this. We'll let it go with that. I think there's a great opportunity for Scott, as there is for MVP. It's just figuring out what does that product look like. How are you going to serve your audience in a way that's different than the UFC currently is?

Do you think this ronda Rousey, because listen, there were a lot of people who were upset on social media afterwards. And even in a couple of days following, people were upset. They were saying it was too quick. They felt like they'd been ripped off. That statement in and of itself made me laugh a little bit because it wasn't a pay-per-view. it was on Netflix and almost everyone listening to this as Netflix. So it feels like it should have been a win if Netflix was looking for live events, but there was a tinge of negativity after,

including some people suggesting it was a work. Longtime MMA fans know it was not. I mean, Rhonda at her peak in her prime beat the best of the best in under 30 seconds. So someone who hasn't fought in 17 years who had to lose 100 pounds to make weight for this fight, it's not a surprise to me that it was over quickly. Is this just not enough education for the consumer? Because it feels like it feels like there were some unrealistic expectations set for this match. Yes and no.

Let's be honest. When you make a match and you promote an event, there's an assumption that it's competitive. Yes. There's a reason why you book a match. And the presumption or assumption, whatever it may be on, is that it's a competitive a match. And I don't think it was a work. I'm not buying any of that bullshit at all. I will concede that the fact that it was even booked made it predictable to a degree. I don't think anybody predicted 17 seconds. I think everybody, including the producers, in this case, MVP and the

promoters would have loved for it to go a little bit longer. Yeah. But it didn't. You know, if it was a work, it would have gone three or four minutes. And it would have built. And gosh, it might have been a moment when Gina looked like she might be able to get a hold of this thing. Because Rhonda started out strong. Hanging, Gina backing up, circling. Wow, she'd look scared.

Whoa, wait a minute. Gina's coming back. Right, left. Whoa. Look at that. Oh, no. Here comes Rhonda again. Okay, now it's over.

You'd have had that, some rhythm to it. So it was at least entertaining if it was a work. It wasn't. It was 17 seconds. I'm sure the polls were to look at each other going, what the hell? Where are we going to get burned on this one? But they should have known that going in, that the possibility at least existed. Or at the very least, maybe it was a godsend that it only went 17 seconds,

because maybe if it would have gone three or four minutes or whatever, it would have been even more obvious that this match should have never been booked. They booked names. They booked legacies. It booked two legacies against each other. Hope everybody would buy because of name recognition. Obviously didn't spend a lot of time worrying about what the actual match was going to look like. And that's why people feel like it was in work.

It wasn't. It was just a really bad way to, it was a bad. master promote in my opinion. And there's a lot that I don't know so I could be absolutely off base. I'm going to set you up with something we have not planned here, but it's been said many times. And you've even said it here on the show that sometimes when a person would have a good idea for creative or what they felt like was a good idea, they'd go pitch Hulk Hogan and maybe he'd stroke the Foumanchu and maybe he wasn't sure if he liked it or he didn't like it. So he wasn't turning it down. He was keeping an open mind. But he would always ask.

ask a question. And I think you've said here on the show that it was, hey, where do we go from there? And then what? And what's next? I think if you ask that going into this, you may not have booked it because you know, hey, Rhonda needed an ending to her movie, a happy ending, and here it is. And certainly this was a way for her to pay homage to the person who paved the way. And Gina's going to get her biggest payday and all those good niceties. I don't know that I don't know that we're ever going to see either one fight again. So from a promoter standpoint, where do you go from here? Like this is one and done, right?

Absolutely. And Rhonda said it immediately. That was it. She's done. And that's part of it. Look, a lot of me respects Rhonda. I don't want to make it sound like I don't respect her,

but I also see through a lot of shit. And she's not as great of a worker as she thinks she is in terms of what she says on the mic, you know, she's very transparent to me. me, and this was just a, this was like a legacy rehab match, is really what it was. You listen to those promos, Rhonda Cut. Now, she basically was cutting them on UFC and her and all that, but who wrote that for her? Right.

She's not that good. At least nobody ever saw it. Certainly didn't get any indication in terms of her mic work at WWW. that that potential was there because that stuff was good. I mean, I kind of, I started really digging Rhonda because of some of those promos. She was, not that I agreed with her necessarily, but the artful presentation of her point of view was like surgically beautiful.

The way she structured it, the payoffs, her timing. And I'm thinking, is this, if this stuff. is coming naturally to her, she is gifted in a way that nobody saw coming. And somebody needs to take a hold of that because it's magic. Or it was written for and she worked with it because she's done some acting. Anybody can hire an acting coach and get you ready for some dialogue. It's not that hard. Takes a little time and effort. Who knows if that's what happened? but the whole thing just seemed like a legacy rehab. I totally agree.

I do hope that we see more MMA included on Netflix. I hope MVP will continue. I think it could be good for the fighters. It was great for me as a fan. I didn't have to go buy another pay-per-view. So I was in. I already had it just like I already have Fox Nation so I can check out Real American Freestyle.

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plus you get free shipping on all orders over $50. Even get free gifts on qualifying orders. Don't forget to fill out the quick survey and tell them that you heard about them here on this show. Greatly appreciate that. And don't forget to enjoy responsibly. And thanks to End the Cloud for making May feel a little more manageable for me this month. Hey, so let's talk a little bit about expectations going into this thing. We said that there were some people who were disappointed.

But there's a story out there that Ron, said she had been in negotiations to do this fight with the UFC. It was supposed to be their last pay-per-view before they switched over to the Paramount deal. Of course, that deal structure doesn't work anymore. Once upon a time, UFC fighters would get some sort of a guarantee and then a share of the paper views. That's not really a secret. But now that everything is sort of flip-flop, much like it did with WWE once upon

a time, guys like Kevin Nash would tell you, hey, we didn't know what type of year we were having until we got our WrestleMania payoff. But that all sort of changed with the advent of the WWV. network in 2014. Now it's all just there. It's all included. Well, so the UFC is going through that transition now. And we just saw this past weekend. There was a conference at J.P. Morgan's global tech media and communications conference. And the COO for TKO Mark Shapiro, I don't think he believes that this fight is actually a net positive for MMA. Where do you stand on that? Do you think that the rousey Corona thing is going to do any damage to MMA? That feels like a little bit of a

stretch, maybe. I don't know what Mark Shapiro knows in terms of data research, the audience. Disclamer right there. That said, I think it's going to hurt MVP as a brand. Right. Not horribly. It's an easy thing to overcome. One good event can turn everything around.

And look, Jake Paul's a smart, smart, smart. media savvy powerhouse. He'll figure it out. It's not a question of if it's went, how soon. And I would expect it to be pretty quick. So this whole issue about the adverse impact of Rousey Corona will be a moot point and would even think about it after the next event, provided it's a good event, decent event.

So, no, I don't think so. I think that was a big statement. I think what Shapiro was trying to emphasize, because he also, talked about the fact that they had an opportunity for the fight and just adding a little bit to what you said. Yes, they had an opportunity, but they didn't see it as something that they wanted to offer to their audience. For all the reasons we just talked about, probably, they knew what apparently MVP either knew and it didn't matter to them. And it served the purpose. It was designed to serve and they didn't have an expectation of a Dave Meltzer five-star match.

or whatever. They were just using it because they knew that it would work. And it's a strategy. But I don't think it had a negative impact on the industry as a whole. That's that. But it's interesting that that's even a topic of conversation. And I appreciate when you said, hey, it could hurt MVP. But let's be honest.

I always tune into everything Jake Paul does. So I'm a viewer. But I think a lot of people have. How many times do we have to have this fool me once, fool me twice thing? How many people were disappointed with this fight with Mike Tyson or his fight with Anderson Silva? Like he's doing these sort of sideshow things. It's a spectacle.

It's going to get a lot of attention. It's going to get a lot of clicks. And in this, you know, content creator economy, attention is the currency of the day. He's mastered that. But at the same time, he's not like looking to have really competitive matches. He's looking to get a lot of eyeballs. I think they check that box. I just don't know how sustainable it is.

like if you're looking around and you're trying to figure out the next thing, where do you go from here after you've done Gina Carrano and Rhonda Rousey? I don't care what it is. I don't care what sport it is. It does not freaking matter. It's all driven by story. It's not driven by spectacle. Spectacles are easy to replicate.

The point of entry is just how much money do you have? Anybody can go out and produce a spectacle. The only limitation is your imagination. and your checkbook. Easy. Fortunately, not everybody has enough that much money to burn that it happens all the time, but when it does, it does. If any, I'll just talk about Real American Free Style.

I don't like talking about other people's business because I don't know what Jake Paul's thinking and I don't know the internal workings of that organization. But their challenge is no different than my challenge, and that's to build an audience who's loyal to your brand, not exclusively loyal to your brand, but loyal to your brand because you're offering something that they can't get anywhere else. And you're doing a consistent job of that. In my case, that has to be story. I can't rely on having, you know, guys like Kyle Snyder, you know, gold medalist, incredible athlete, you know, just going out there and having matches.

And when I say I mean, Real American Freestell, I'm not involved in the matchmaking whatsoever. So when I say I am talking about the company, but that won't work. No matter how great the match is or the anticipation for this really, really cool match,

if there's no story behind it, the audience is just looking at two people wrestle. It won't work, not sustainable. What UFC did in the past is build and create stories. You know, they've got, they do a good job of it, given what it is. It's not scripted. So there's a limitation to what you can create in terms of keeping stories real and alive, consistent. But they've done a great job of it previously.

I think maybe now, going back to what I said earlier about dominant brands, there's a formula now that everybody's just doing. and perhaps the audience has shifted and starting to demand more, and perhaps you're not giving it to them in terms of how you get to know those athletes. Because you've got, as a viewer, if you want to get them, hold them, and grow them, you've got to do it through story. And if all MVP or any promotion, Scott Coker, Real American Freestyle, if all we're going to do is produce really cool spectacles,

You just run out of stuff. We've seen it all. If everything is a spectacle, nothing is. It's the best way to say it. If everything is a spectacle, nothing really is a spectacle. When we saw a spectacle on Monday night, Obafemi was out doing his entrance ritual. They had the spotlight on him.

And all of a sudden, the shadowy figure picked him up and F-5 him into oblivion. He did it a second time and blew his pants out in the process. Brock Lesnar is back. We thought he was retiring at WrestleMania. Nope, jokes on you. He's back. And I can't help but wonder,

this is my favorite part about wrestling, Eric. Was he negotiating in public at WrestleMania? Was this just a part of the unreal series? Was this a storyline all along? Tickets are on sale now for Minneapolis. It's a super slam, a summer slam, and it's a star-studded event, of course.

It's a two-night affair, the first time that we're seeing that in Minneapolis. What'd you make of Brock Lesnar coming back? Were you shocked? Were you surprised? Or is this what you expected? You're muted. There we go.

Sorry about that. High tech redneck. I was pouring my coffee and I didn't want you here. Go boop, boop, boop, boop, boop, like somebody's taking a leak next to me or whatever. Anyway, was I shocked? Was I surprised? Yeah. Yeah.

Confused, probably more than anything. Shock? Yeah, I wasn't really shocked. It's hard to shock me when it comes to something in wrestling, like impossible. So let's feel shock out the window. Surprised and confused would be the most accurate way to describe my reaction to Brock Lesnar's return. And I'll tell you what, because I know you're going to ask.

What I saw when he took off his stuff, that emotion was real. but Brock is not an actor Brock is a beast and an animal of an athlete but he's not an actor that what we saw that emotion that we saw when he retired to me

was absolutely honest and real and then for him to come for Brock to come back here's why it's confusing If it was part of a plan, number one, Brock needs to get some kind of Emmy or shit, whatever, for his performance, because he deserves it, number one. But why would you flip it around two weeks later in an unceremonal, well, okay, yeah, I showed up and surprised him. That's been done, I don't know, 100,000 times.

So that's not really that big a deal. So I would think if it was a plan, there would have been something that big that preceded the F5. Something a week before, days before on social media, something to give us an indication of what? So the fact that there's just at this point, now, it's a lot of times it's like dropping into the middle of a series and you're watching a story play out and you go, well, fuck, I don't get it. It doesn't make any sense to me. Well, of course it didn't because you didn't see the beginning of the story, you dumbass. Happens to me all the time. So I'm a little careful to criticize it, but it just seems so reactionary and random.

Here's my take. Wild-ass guess. Brock got emotional. Brock got emotional. Made a decision in the ring. Found out shortly thereafter, there's language in that agreement. that makes what you did a problem. We can figure it out.

Creatively, we can figure it out, but we're not ready there. We're not ready for retirement yet, or something to that effect. Something happened. Either as you, perhaps, because I, my boy, I want to do it. I know you love this part of the business.

You and Zane Breslov, If you two would have been alive, if he would have been alive, like, if he was here now and he got to know you, it would, you guys would have your own show. It would be wild. So I get it's interesting. And it's fun to kind of play out what if scenarios. But I think, I think Brock realized he was a little premature on a, you know, leaving the shit in the ring thing. Or because he negotiated really, really well. and got emotional in the process,

he got a buck in the money that he wasn't expecting or was negotiating for. I don't know, but it is odd. Either way, it's odd. Just know in years past, whenever he was trying to negotiate a better deal with WWV, he would magically appear at a UFC event. And that would start all the rumor mills of,

oh my gosh, if he'd jump into UFC and ta-da, he'd get a better deal. I just love that Brock is like, you know, an all-around cowboy man. It feels like he's continually just found himself in a good position. And I think that a lot of people assumed that, you know, maybe he's doing this in response to some of the cuts because that was at WrestleMania. And in the days following WrestleMania, apparently a lot of talent were approached about taking a pay cut. And I don't know, but I'm curious and I can't wait to see what's next. The rumor and innuendo is we're going to see Brock get on a plane to Italy and take on Obafemi next weekend at the clash in Italy.

And of course, we know SummerSlam will be here before we know it in Minneapolis. I don't want Brock to leave. I enjoy Brock stuff. I like when he's around. I think you can use him sparingly and let him be an attraction. But hypothetically, if he does wind down his WWE career, would you be surprised to see him pop up in one of these MVP Netflix spectacle fights? I would.

I don't, because he doesn't have anything to prove. It's a lot of work. You're going to train for that shit. I mean, it's not easy to train for a fight. You give it up probably six months of your life. And it's your full-time job. You start at 6 in the morning.

You train until 6 o'clock at night. You're working out three times a day. You're dieting. It's not a fun life. Eric, I hear all that, but it is easy to get taken down in 17 seconds and tap out. I mean,

that is easy. Yeah, but that's not a Brock. That's not a Brock match. Okay. That's not a Brock fight. If he's going to take a fight, he's going to take a fight.

Right. It's just I don't see it in real life. I don't see it. I don't see him one of the work one. And most of all, first of all, he's got a lot of integrity as a human. You don't have to like him or agree with them all the time. But he's very firm in his convictions. And he's on pretty solid footing as a human being, in my opinion.

So he's not going to do anything slippery for a buck. And mostly because I can't imagine that he needs many bucks. He's been making a hit ton of. money at all time. Yes. And he lives on a farm in Canada. Of course, money isn't what he used to be in Canada anymore. Sorry, Jacques.

Glad you're not here to hear me say that. Although he'd probably agree with me. Canadian economy is way worse than a U.S. economy in that regard. But either way, he doesn't need money. So now I don't think we'll see him in any of those things. Maybe to commentate, have a little fun. But speaking to have a little fun, if Brock were to stick around, if we're going to see Brock, give me more funny Brock.

Yes. We've had badass Brock for a long time. We all respect and love it. And it's going to go down in pro wrestling history is one of the greater characters, especially for Big Man, maybe the greatest character next to Andre, in terms of impact on the industry. Well, we've seen a lot of that. So come on.

Give us a little of the real guy because he's funny. He's got a sense. humor let's see me we don't want to come out and be a stand-up comedian for that damn sake but let him go out and have a little bit of fun when he's getting heat out people because that's Brock that's fun well if you're looking to have a little fun with Brock we could have the t-shirt this is fun with Brock well i had a blue chew transition do you want to take a stab of fun with Brock and hard wieners i don't know how to do it i'm going to let that go because he may hear this. Yeah, I doubt it. But if he's listening, we want to tell him about blue chew gold.

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at bluechew.com. And we've got a special deal for our listeners. Get 10% off your first month of Bluetooth gold with the promo code 83 weeks. That's promo code 83 weeks. Visit bluechew.com for more details and important safety information. And we thank Bluechew for we're sponsoring today's podcast. It's time for the wrestling news update with Raj Geary. Rise, we greatly appreciate you jumping on the program. Thank you for making time with us. And I know you've got a whole slate of things we were supposed to talk about today.

We'll talk about all of that. But there was some breaking news about Mr. Kaiser that just popped off the charts today. Tell us what's going on. What do you know about this? Yeah. So there was an altercation. between Ludwig Kaiser and a man at his apartment complex. And this happened a month ago.

So this was, I think a lot of people are thinking this just happened. But it was on April 23rd. Ludwig was apparently with his girlfriend making out in the elevator. And the guy who obliged the complaint said, after he got out of the elevator, I mean, during the elevator ride, Kaiser and his girlfriend were were making out. And after he got off the elevator, he said something to the effect,

like, please be respectful. And then claims that Kaiser lost his lost his death and just went and attacked him. I'm also hearing other sides of the story. I'm trying to confirm it. But I'm hearing that there might be more to it than

just that. So I'm hearing some stuff on that would benefit Kaiser. I'm still waiting to get more confirmation on that. But that is what we know right now. And Kaiser obviously has that big match with El Grande Americano, Chad Gable, coming up in 10 days for AAA, which is arguably the biggest match of his career. So Kaiser, you know, after the complaint was filed, Kaiser returned to the U.S., turned himself in,

and was out on bail. So, yeah, we'll see. We'll see where this goes. And, and Raj, where is the, um, where is the big super fight with Gable and Kaiser under the,

I guess it's the battle rights for El Grande, Americana. What's the location for that belt? Hold on. Let me, let me find that. I think they're in Mexico. My question is,

is he going to be able to go back and forth? Like anytime there's a legal issue like this and now we're having to go in and out of the country. I'm just curious. He is the top star in AAA. This feels like something that would have been really on WW's radar. I don't have any inside information. I don't pretend to know.

The report I've read is that he found out about this on the 19th and he flew home immediately, turned himself in on 20th. He has no prior criminal record. I don't want to pretend that I know what happened. But if he's making out with his girlfriend in the elevator in public, maybe there was alcohol involved. Maybe it was an emotional thing. It feels like this is going to be a nothing burger.

But I'm wondering, do you think this could impact his ability to travel across, you know, out of the country? So he, you know, they did file a plea to allow him to work because he did fly back from Mexico, you know, once this complaint was lodged. So, you know, he's shown that he's not a flight risk. And so I don't think it's going to affect his, his upcoming match with Chad Gable. Eric, when you think back to your days in WCW, I mean, unfortunately, there were some, some public situations like this. You had more than one wrestler who was arrested while they were. under the WCW banner.

What was the route that you would take? What disciplinary action did you take? What was the attitude of Turner Corporate? Would they let it play out in the court? Did you think you needed to get in front of this thing? Talk to us about that from a managerial standpoint, Aaron. Obviously, every situation would be different, right? In terms of how serious it was or what I could possibly say about it.

you know for something like this I'm going to try to imagine what I would do back then given the conditions and the culture as it were back then or as it was wouldn't have taken any action immediately because a charge

isn't a guilty verdict even more so today right so the fact that somebody was charged wouldn't necessarily require disciplinary action, but I would look at, okay, what are the ramifications? If this gets more serious, what's in jeopardy? Is this individual a book for a pay-per-view in 90 days or 60 days or 30 days or two weeks? You know, how does this affect business first?

And then you take in, you know, what is it? You know, he was making out with his girlfriend. Well, I got no problem with that. I've been there, done that. Now, there's a guy in the elevator. That makes it a little different. But what if the guy said some stupid shit? Right.

What the guy deserved to get his ass kicked. Because you can do some shit in an elevator that makes you deserve to get your ass kicked. Okay. That part of it. We only know the other part of it. And that would be my opinion. That would be my position until I knew both sides of the story. I would be measuring, you know, mitigating circumstances or what I could and then keep an eye on it.

Depending on what it was, obviously, cut ties. It's horrible, horrible shit. Cut ties. Disciplinary action was tough, though, because of the nature of WCW contracts. And that gets into the whole independent contractor employee thing. It's not that we didn't want to have control, but contractually, if you choose to be an independent contractor or that's your business model as an employer, then you have to work within that framework to a large degree. And part of that is the amount of control in the way of disciplinary action that you can take.

So it gets really kind of complicated. Rize, I know that there's been a lot of other big news that's broken this week. What's on your radar? I think one of the big things was just how much the TV ratings have gone down for all the shows since Nielsen apparently changed their rating system at the end of April. and since then, it's been a significant decline. With SmackDown, Dynamite, and Impact, now there have been four episodes

before the Nielsen chain, I mean, after the Nielsen change, and then comparing that before, you look at the 18 to 49 numbers, SmackDown's down 31% since the change. Dynamite, you take the average of the four episodes, of course, is down 29% and impact is getting at the worst, it's down 40%.

In total, viewers, Smackdown went from 1.45 million to 1.22 million. Dynamite's gone from 715,000 to 597,000, a drop of about 17%. And impact has gone from 231,000 to 186,000, which is a drop of 19%. So big drops across the board for all the major shows, especially in 1849. Absolutely. I was reading, you know, because I'm reading, you know, trying to keep up to date with what's going on in the business, at least, if I can't watch the shows as much as I should. But I hear this a lot, oh, man, like the ratings are coming down. Oh, this is, you know, it's positioned in a, this is kind of, this is a down cycle manner.

It's, it's clockwork. It's, we're going into the finals of the NBA. That has an impact. That changes stuff. Add to that. And this is the one that nobody really pays attention to because it doesn't seem like it should matter. but it makes so much difference.

Is it staying lighter later? What happens when it stays lighter later? Ask a bar owner. Ask a restaurant. Ask what, take a walk. Look around you. There are more people outside doing shit when it's daylight in the summertime

and the weather finally gets nice. And in the major markets that affect ratings. New York, come on. New York, Boston, Philadelphia, of the whole Eastern seaboard, it's a densely populated DMA, television market that matters because it's so densely populated.

When the weather starts getting nice after that audience has been cooped up all winter long, they're outside. And so when you combine NBA finals, we're going into the finals now, right, playoffs, these games all of a sudden actually start to matter. We're not just watching basketball for the fun of it. These games matter.

That increases your audience size for the NBA. And it's nice outside. So nobody's in the house using television. Actually, Nielsen has a term for it called Hut Levels, which is households using television. You can look at it over the decades of Nielsen and go, oh, every year it does this. So it's not unusual.

And the fact that SmackDown only lost based on what I think I heard you say, around 200,000 viewers, this time of year is really not a bad sign. And here's what happened, just because I do this shit, But starting in about August, they're going to start creeping back up. They're going to be tough all summer for a lot of the reasons I just discussed, but and more. But about August, they're going to start creeping up. September starts, oh, wow, look at this. Ooh, numbers are up.

October, November, they're going to go through the roof. And they're going to stay there until about this time next year. And the same thing is going to happen. And you are absolutely right. Like in May, with WWE across the board, you'd see it with Rob back in the day. You would see a drop. Now, with AEW, you didn't see it as much. Like last year, if you looked at their May numbers compared to April, they did 0.16.

They averaged 0.16 in 18 to 49 both months. And in April, they averaged about $60,000. And then in May, they average 630,000. So they actually went up as the NBA and NHL playoffs got, farther along. So whether and again, it's so far, Dave Meltzer has been the only one that reported that Nielsen has changed their methodology as of the end of April. No one held, no, the last Nielsen change at the end of January, you had variety reporting on it. So far, variety, the Hollywood reporter, the usual, the usual go-toes on Nielsen changes have

not reported any change in the ratings. So, but it does correspond. So whether it's true or not, whether it's just a cyclical thing, you know, again, like you mentioned, WWE always does go down this time of year. A lot of it also has to deal with the creative kind of taking a slump after WrestleMania.

You know, it's a lot of rematches and things like that. But it could be. So that's why anytime I write about or tweet about the ratings, I always say, apparently Nielsen changed their ratings at the end of April because I don't know for sure because they've asked WWE, I've asked AEW and they haven't corroborated that there's been a change. Raj, what else is on your radar this week? I know that there's been some discussion about backlash on ESPN2.

And we know that, you know, this is a whole new world for WWE, starting with Russell Paloza. A lot of their PLEs have been on ESPN. at this most recent show, they really loaded up sort of the simulcast, if you will, of that part of the program that aired on ESPN2. So how did that look, ratings twice? Well, as you would expect, it's backlash.

It's going to be down a lot from WrestleMania Night 1. And this aired on ESPN 2. For whatever reason, they didn't do it on ESPN 2. ESPN2 averages 300,000 viewers in prime time, That's what the average last year. And Backlash did close to a million viewers. It did 998,000 and 0.33, 18 to 49. Now, the one thing with Backlash as opposed to WrestleMania

is you're going to get a lot more casual fans tuning into that WrestleMania name and maybe just going to check it out and they're not watching the full show. As far as with Backlash, it's more of a niche show. So a lot of the fans that are aware of Backlash are probably watching on that ESP, app. They're watching the whole show. So you'd figure a higher percentage of people watching backlash or watching on the ESPN app as opposed to WrestleMania Night 1, but still way above the station average. And this was not in prime time. This aired earlier in the day. But it was down 38% total viewers, 47 and 18 to 49 from that ESPN2 WrestleMania show, as you'd expect.

So overall, I would think especially for ESPN2, which is way, below what ESPN does. It's got to be a big success for a B show to be doing those kind of numbers. Roger, I wanted to ask you about this report that came out yesterday. Mike Johnson from PW Insider is reporting that, and Eric, I know this is something you'll co-sign. WWE Talent is going to have the 4th of July weekend off. I know that's Eric's unofficial favorite holiday of the year.

Maybe it's not even unofficial. It is the official favorite holiday of EZE. but they're kind of double stacking. This is not something that we've seen them do a lot in the past. I mean, forever and ever, WWE under Vince McMahon, hey, these guys were running every opportunity they got.

How do you think this is going to be received by the talent? And, you know, for that matter, shareholders. Yeah, I mean, I think it's a great thing. You know,

holiday, because I think there's a lot of younger talent that want to work more dates, but they don't want to work holidays, right? And they want to spend that time with friends, family, things like that. And at WWE, they are bringing back, they are bringing back house shows. They're going to be doing a lot more house shows this summer. And, you know, Nick Khan has said in interviews that with Triple H, like, they need to really get more younger guys coming up.

And those younger guys aren't getting the reps like they used to before without house shows. So I think the house shows are a concerted effort to get those guys, you know, more ring time and just really improving because you don't get that when you're just doing TV. So I think it's great that they're getting holidays off, but, you know, I think also having more shows is probably going to benefit a lot of younger talent in the long run and really help raise a lot of a lot of people coming up. Eric, I wanted to ask you about that. You know, TKO as a whole has come out multiple times and basically said, you know, they don't see the value in the house shows and

and this was an antiquated business model that Vince believed in, but it doesn't pencil. Nobody could really argue that. I mean, that's something you discovered way back in 1991. I mean, years ago, you were on top of that.

But now there's a town hall held this week where, where Triple H and Nick Kahn say, hey, we've discovered that you guys need house shows. So this becomes now, you know, you've got to reverse engineer how to make this happen. Because I know that they're not going to want to run these at a loss.

They're going to need for them to be profitable. but that by the very nature of a lot of WW contracts means that you've got a certain amount of money for a certain amount of dates so you're going to need to either shuffle the deck or maybe not have as many featured primetime players on those house shows like the first house show schedule that was released

respectfully there are a lot of B and C towns they're not running house shows in Chicago or Miami or New York what would you expect to be like the best practice moving forward Eric for how should a house show card in 20s? 26. Look for WWV. You're muted. You're muted, Eric. We can't hear you. Sorry. The first thing I would do is figure out why. Why are we doing these house shows? What's the main objective? Is it to generate revenue? Is it to develop talent? Is it to move merchandise? Is it all the above? And I think the answer is it's all of the above. And I think the answer is it's all of the You want to be as financially solvent as you can in this initiative. But I have a funny feeling that's not what this is.

I don't think they're doing this as a revenue generating opportunity. I think they're looking at this as a talent development opportunity, probably a little bit of a marketing opportunity, more than revenue. And I think they're willing to lose a little bit of money on these. Or at the very least, go into them knowing that they're really not going to be profitable. But I think what they've learned, and I'm sure that Paul Beck had a lot to do with this, because he's far more experienced and knowledgeable than I am, as is Bruce Pritchard,

would also have a lot to say about this subject, is that you need those environments in order to build stars. You cannot build stars in an artificial environment, no matter how close to the real thing that artificial environment is. You ask me, what's an artificial environment? A soundstage is an artificial environment. The location where they shoot MST in the fixed-based location is an artificial environment. That's why taking the show on the road, getting in front of a real audience and the authenticity and the energy that comes with it is so important if you want to have a televised product.

But to develop talent, you don't need that big of a crowd. You don't need the same types of things you need for television. So getting that young talent out there in front of a real audience, not an artificial audience that are just there because they get to be on TV and you're part of the show is where the talent learns. It's also where you can bump off rust to a degree or keep yourself in rest of the tape. If you're one of those bigger stars, maybe not a main eventor, maybe not the guys that are booked in the pay-per-views,

but you're just a notch below that. this is going to be a good opportunity for those guys because they're going to need to sharpen up, fresh it up, and come up with new ideas. And that's going to be far easier to do in that environment where you're actually in there doing stuff and getting instantaneous feedback from the crowd. That's when the creative gears begin to turn,

not when you're sitting at home on your couch, what should I do next? So I think it's a great move. I don't think they're doing it for revenue. I think they want to minimize the losses. I think they're doing it for development. I totally agree. You know, it feels like they've got a lot of guys. I mean, that roster is really, really deep. So not everybody is meeting their minimum number of dates.

Let's use those guys, but I do wonder, will that draw? Are they going to run smaller arenas? Maybe that's the idea by running smaller towns, your rents and your union costs and your labor costs and all those things get a whole lot more. In a way, it's like going back to the future. Yes. This is this is, this is WD look, go back and look at some of the booking sheets. We see them online all the time. You got to see town. No Hulk Hogan on that. Somebody posted this the other day, a Hulk Hogan card or the non-Hull Coggan card from like 1980, whatever. And it was really interesting because those events were in shitty little venues. But that's, it's also when I say it's a marketing opportunity. Now you're getting face to face with your fan base.

Granted, it's on a limited scale. But it's no different than a politician showing up at a supermarket and shaking hands with the customers. You're making contact with the audience. at the local level and that has value. I don't know why, Eric, but I love that sometimes you just cut through all the bullshit. You know, you just go, they're in little shitty towns like Huntsville, Alabama. I love it. Oh, no.

Huntsville would be a big damn deal compared to some of the towns that wrestling has always promoted it. There was one, it's a famous arena somewhere on the East Coast. I wish I could remember where, but. Bangor, Maine. It, you know, it was where Roddy Piper had a famous, uh, Piper's pit. So anyway,

Vince's dad used to promote there somewhere in Pennsylvania. Anyway, it's the shittiest. I mean, when it was new, it was bad, right? And it was built around 1930.

And it hasn't improved a bit. And I went, Are you talking to Ag Hall in Allentown? Yes. Yes. Okay. Awesome. Marina has a personality and a vibe.

Those kind of talents. Go back to the future. People will respond to it. Let's see if people are responding to the tag news. On the heels of them releasing the Motor City machine guns and offering a pay cut and being turned down by New Day, there's a report out that WWE is looking to add tag teams. Raj, I want to ask you about this because there's another report out that, and we've heard this for seemingly months, but it feels like it's getting louder.

Enzo Amore may be back on WWE's radar, and according to the rumor in innuendo, Big Bill, who we used to know is big casts in WWE, his contract with AEW is coming due. These guys were over like Rover a decade ago. I think this has been a long time coming if they wind up back in WWE. Do you think it's likely, Raj? What are you hearing? I do. it definitely does seem like Enzo's heading that way.

Big Cass, his contracts coming up. And, you know, the last time he was there at the end, he had his issues. And, you know, he cleaned himself up, got himself in fantastic shape. And he has proven himself worthy of another shot. So, you know, if you bring Anzo back, Big Cast makes all the sense in the world. Like you said, they were over like crazy back then. And they had just tons of potential. unfortunately some personal problems got in the way

but you're looking to revamp the tag division bringing back a name from the past that fans will immediately probably jump to I mean they they love they love that that duo and Enzo has just tons and tons of charisma I got to go I got to know Enzo on a trip to Qatar several years ago

because I'd never really cross past with him up until that point I'm really cheering for him I mean this guy has been rehabbing himself and sticking with it and trying to get back. He's, he's been so committed that I hope this opportunity comes his way because he really does deserve it for being so just almost obsessive about turning this thing around and getting back and proving what he can do because he is a very talented guy.

He overcame adversity. I hope he's going to be another great success story. We do have some breaking news since we've been recording. it's been revealed that the AAA show that was supposed to happen tonight, which was going to be based around El Grande Americano, has been canceled. A big show that's supposed to happen tonight in Mexico City. As you're listening to this,

it was last night that this was supposed to happen. Eric, how do you read this, that they're canceling this show tonight? Do you think this is a one-off, or is this a sign that maybe TKO is going to take a wait and see approach with the legal proceedings? and they're going to come up with something creative for next weekend,

or do you still think we get the mask versus mask super fight next week with Elgrondo Americano and the OG Chad Gable? No idea. Another factor could be the part of his arrest. Is he allowed to leave the country? Does he need permission to leave the country? I mean, there may be other technical issues that kind of are involved here that I just am unaware of.

But I guess you're not surprised. I mean, we touched on it here. The question was, you know, do we think this is going to impact AAA going forward? And the answer is we don't know. Well, now we do. Now we do. Raj, I appreciate you making so much time to hang out with us today.

Tell everybody where they can keep up with you through the week. I just keep following me on Twitter at the ERAGE Geh. And I appreciate it as always, guys. Thanks again. Thank you, Raj. Thank you. episodes every Thursday night at 7 p.m. on YouTube. For over 25 years, J.C.W. has delivered the very best in pro-w wrestling entertainment, bringing fans deep storytelling drama, gut-busting comedy, and unbelievable in-ring action.

From wild characters to unforgettable rivalries, don't miss a single moment. Tune in every Thursday night at 7 p.m. on YouTube, J.C.W. Lunacy. So, Eric, I do want to ask you about the other big news this week. This is caught a lot of people by surprise. AEW has a big paper review this weekend. That's on Sunday. Saturday night's main event for WWE is happening on Saturday. So it's an absolutely loaded wrestling weekend this Memorial Day weekend.

But the Sunday show has an interesting main event. It's Darby Allen versus MJF. The AEW titles on the line versus MJF's hair. And normally zero hour, which is normally. called buy-in on Double or Nothing, sort of a gambling-themed show. They have Renee Paquette, R.J. City, and Jeff Jarrett. But it was announced that the host this weekend of the buy-in will be Renee and Mick Foley, who was taken to social media to announce that he is now all elite.

He wrote, I'm extremely happy to be making my debut with AEW, joining Renee on the Double or Nothing pre-show. Looking forward to seeing Tony Con for the first time in many years. years. We had lunch 15 years ago and meeting up with AEW's amazing roster. And of course, this week, MJF was making the circuit doing lots of different interviews and podcasts and things like that in order to promote pay-per-view this weekend. And he was asked about Foley and he drew a comparison to Darby Allen, which I thought was interesting. Well, since we've been here recording, here's the quote from MJF. I think McPolley is fat and he's ugly. I think he was the blueprint of

what Darby Allen is now, which makes me hate him even more. That's what I think of Mick Foley. And it's no secret that once upon a time, McPoly and MJF like the idea of if Foley did do one last match, maybe it could be against MJF. Well, the idea that this is all happening this weekend and MJF is in the main event, people are drawing conclusions and speculating. And on the media call today, Tony Kahn was actually asked about this. And here's what he had to say. Tony Con was asked, see if I can find this here. To what extent the involvement he anticipates Mick Foley having an AW? And would he be open to seeing him perform in the ring?

And Tony said he suggested the co-hosting spot for the buy-in to Foley. He thought it was a great idea and he's thrilled about it. And right now they're focused on Foley broadcasting and lending his experience to AW. Tony Khan says he can't speak for Foley as to whether he wants to wrestle. But if he ever does, he'd love to see him do it in AEW. he also does not want to put him in a situation where he's uncomfortable. So that's the right answer from Tony Kahn. But what do you make of this?

Mick Foley being all elite. And do you think we'll see Mick Foley wrestle at some point in AEW? I think Mick Foley as a part of the AEW brand is a great idea. He's such a talented guy. He's so good on the mic. He's a great storyteller. He knows instinctively how to get people over. You don't have to teach him anything.

He can ad, live, improv, follow a script. He's a really super talented guy. And obviously, the name and face value, the credibility, the legacy that comes with him, has great value. Please don't get in the ring. Please don't do that, Mick. I'll support him whatever he does because I really, really respect Mick. but I hope because I respect Mick that he allows us the privilege of remembering Mick when he was able to do some unbelievable things in the ring.

That's the memory I think most people want of Mick Foley. And they'll get as much of Mick as they can behind that desk or interacting with talent. But please don't, please don't do it in the ring. I think it's going to be interesting to see what happens. I wonder if he'll be a part of the main event story this weekend. I'm pulling for Mick. I hope that he gets to do exactly what he wants to do. I don't think he has to wrestle.

I think he's accomplished everything there is, but I do think he might, and I only say that. I have no inside information, but I saw him make a return during Sandman's last match. It happened over WrestleMania weekend as a part of the festivities in Las Vegas. And when the Sandman was wrestling the invisible man,

that's a real sentence, here comes Cactus Jack. And Cactus was actually moving around, and he took a bump. I didn't expect to see that. So granted, he's, he's lost more than 100 pounds. He's moving around better than he has in many years.

But when he fell to the mat, I thought, I wonder what he's got in mind. And then the next thing you know, he's on the pre-show where MJF's in the main event in New York. I don't know. It feels like we're going to see something, some sort of physicality.

I'm sure we'll talk about it. Good bad. If it's an angle, you know, something happens outside of the ring and you get, there's some physicality. That's all cool and that's Mick, right? But when you talk about seeing him, you know, in the ring,

we're talking about a 12 or 15 and 20 minute match, whatever. That's the part where, you know, here's what's so interesting about this. It's, I mean, you said it, Mick doesn't need the money. Mick is famously good with his money. It's probably got enough money for his family for generations. So it's not a financial thing. Mick is one of those guys that just loves it and can't get that needle out of his arm. And by that I mean his connection to that live audience and his ability to connect to that audience and to create emotion.

That's a very addictive thing. And once you develop that neural pathway, it becomes something you have to feed. And just because you walk away from the ring or the stage or the cameras, it doesn't mean that narrow pathway, doesn't it keep existing? It's just got nowhere to go until it does. And it finds an opportunity. And then whether you're Hulk Hogan, you're Rick Flair, Roddy Piper, Muhammad Ali, whoever, name somebody who is at the top of their career,

and could have and possibly should have for the sake of their legacy, just stop right there. But they kept going, not because they had to in most cases, but because they just get that needle out of the wrap. Let's hope he does. Let's hope he gets his fix, being on camera, having fun and doing shit that isn't going to bust him out. Hey, let's talk about an old friend of yours.

Jimmy Hart was on Cody Rhodes podcast this week. and you have given almost the exact same Jimmy Hart advice over and over and over here on this program, going back to the very beginning of the show. And it's the same thing we've heard Tony Chivani echo and it made its way to Cody's podcast this week. Jimmy recounted a story from WrestleMania weekend when he said he wanted to tell Sammy Zane to dye his hair black, cut his beard, and change his outfit in the middle of this feud with Trick Williams in the WWB. quote, I rode with Sammy Zane in the van at WrestleMania. We were talking and everything else, and I knew he was going against Trick.

I said, look, when you got the outfits, Tricks got, and you got the music, and you got the manager, and you got everything you got, people are going to love you. You know that, and I do too. I didn't say it to Sammy, but I wanted to say, you know, Sammy, when you make a change, you got to change that look. I wanted to say, dye your hair black, cut your beard different, black. That's a change. Do a different outfit.

because sometimes you just can't keep the same look. But I didn't want to say that because he'd probably stretch me, so I kept my mouth shot, but sometimes you have to do that. And I got to tell you, I hate to feel this way, but it's like every now and again, you hear something like that,

and you're like, man, that legend just boiled it down to the basics and hits you with some old school. And I'm for it. Like, he's right. Sammy Zane has largely been presented visually the same way.

And maybe his demeanor has changed, but way back when, I mean, even Hulk Hogan, he had such a dramatic change with the multicolored and all this stuff changing the colors. Like, I think he's on to something here. This is some real wisdom from Jimmy Hart. What do you think of this? Well, and Jimmy is famous for that. You know, when you spend a lot of time with Jimmy, you realize that there's a couple different layers

to Jimmy Hart. There's the layer that everybody sees that everybody loves, the super high energy. very open, just kind to everybody and does its best to make everybody feel good around him. And you see that almost all the time with Jimmy in a public setting. Then there's the Jimmy that is kind of backstage

consultant to a small handful of people because not everybody wants to listen to Jimmy. Jimmy's very thorough. When Jimmy is fixated on some, something and really believes it's important. He is relentless. He's like a dog on a bone, a very hungry dog with a very, very meaty bone. He will not let it go.

And he'll eventually wear you down to the point where you're going to sit and listen to it, whether you want to or not. In my experience, when Jimmy found something that he was very serious about and not just a passing idea or thought, comment. You eventually had to throw out on the time and say, okay, Jimmy, let's go sit down and talk about it. And because Jimmy came from a different era. Jimmy came from a different culture. Jimmy came from a different, a whole different set of circumstances and experience that I never even got close to.

Jimmy's been around for a long time and has forgotten more than I'll ever know about the history in the past and he experienced it. When Jimmy would sit down and lock me in a room, it was sometimes hard to listen and process because of that difference in the way we operated and communicated especially. But there were always very basic truths to his point. He may have presented them in a way that didn't necessarily connect with me in the way I process information. But when I focused on, okay, what's basically he's trying to say is, and he was almost always right. He had a, he was, I use it to impress you in describing myself as a joke. Jimmy really was.

Jimmy could see what was going to happen in the future if we kept going down this path. He could give you, and he wasn't always right. Don't get me wrong. Nobody is. but he was right often enough that when he got serious, I'd pay attention. He was a really valuable asset. I hope Jimmy gets an opportunity.

I hope WWE really does something special with Jimmy because he's the last. I hate to say it this way. And I think he'll probably outlive me. And I plan on being around a long time, by the way. But Jimmy's such a vault that if you can get him to relax and really share. He's a fascinating guy to listen to.

I don't pretend to know exactly what, what Jimmy's got going on, but I know that he was always in close proximity to the Holkster. So it feels like he's been a Tampa guy for a long, long time. But if you were WWE, wouldn't one of your first calls be, sadly now that Hulkster's no longer with us. Hey, Jimmy, we got to move you to Orlando.

We need your help at the PC. It feels like he'd be a no-brainer asset there, right? He would in a way. in a way he would. First of all, let's go back to what Jimmy Hart's doing right now. He's living in a $37 million mansion on the beach. Wait, is he living with Ben Mala? Yes.

He's really living with Ben? Yes. It has been for years. That's fantastic. Of course it is. So, yeah, I'm not, I'm not moving out either. Ben, I want to move in. But here's the deal.

Jimmy, if you go down and you could go out, you could drop in a clear water floor to any day of the week you wanted to. and surprised Jimmy anywhere that you could find him. And he's going to be wearing WWE merch. Right. He is a walking talking ambassador because he, his identity is WWE. So if he got that call,

he's probably the only person you or I know that would go, Hey, Ben, this has been real. I love this $37 million house on the beach and, you know, life's good, but Russell's calling. He'd go.

Now, I don't know, you know, with all the reasons I discussed, about how sometimes it was hard for me to, you know, process driven, Jimmy, might even be more difficult at this stage. I don't know, but he just is. He's a valuable guy and he's, he's a fun.

When I say valuable asset, I mean, just to sit down and hear him in an interview, really get into his life and his history because it's pretty fascinating. You have to think what a, what rarefied air it is that this guy was able to have so much success on the territories, you know, speaking of all the great stuff he did in Memphis, became an absolute icon in the WWE as, you know, one of the great managers there during the heyday, the golden era. And then he comes over and does the same thing on camera for WCW, but behind the scenes, the idea that he was able to at different times, you know, book WCW Saturday night or do themes on both sides. Like, this guy's like a wrestling savant. And being able to just pop on

Cody's podcast and say, hey, baby, Sammy Zane. He's ain't. cut his hair and changed his hair color. Like it makes a lot of sense. It's a power move. Just like how hiring Morgan and Morgan is a power move. Morgan and Morgan is America's largest injury law firm. You may not know this, but they've got over 100 offices nationwide. They've got over a thousand attorneys on staff.

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This is a paid advertisement. Eric, I appreciate how quickly you're able to move around over there and Cody. I do want to ask you, have you seen the good news? I can't believe this is real, but I guess there was a town hall recently where Nick Conn and Paul Levick gave a shout out to Danhausen. at elimination chamber, people were talking like this was an absolute disaster. It was the next shockmaster. And Nick just revealed he's the second largest merch mover in the whole company behind

only Cody Road. This is unbelievable what's happening. And I know there's a lot of speculation about where does it go, but I saw he's got like Hollywood representation now. Mike Dawkins has been able to trademark his face paint. Like, this thing's getting bigger by the day. when does the when does the snowball end what is the highest and best use what is the ceiling for this character is this going to burn out is this going to continue to build what's your forecast

right now eric we talked about this a little bit before but i think as long as they don't overexpose him i think he can be a constant thread in and out of any storyline look at the way they're using him on ESPN he's he's crossover entertainment and he's so versatile and the character is so versatile and it's so much fun. I am so impressed. Whoever saw this, whoever was responsible for driving this decision, I want to meet this person someday. I want to be in a room with this person for at least a half an hour and pick this person's brain.

I want to know how they knew. What was it about what did you see that nobody else saw from a WWE perspective? Because they were so on the money. It's just fascinating. Here's the deal. Whatever records he's doing right now, this is May, he's going to, I'll predict right here. And you know how I am? I'm like 98 and a half percent accurate.

I haven't made a lot of predictions lately. I kind of got out of the prediction business because it was always controversial. I'm just tired of it. But I'm going to go out on the line and say there's about a 95% chance that he'll triple his merch. Take what it is this month. I predict right now he'll triple that two and a half times, multiple 2.5 by the end of November. Okay. His Halloween business is going to be freaky good.

it's going to be insane I agree you'll be reading you'll be really reading stone cold Steve Austin peak merch data point comparisons that's my take Eric I know you're not typically a huge basketball fan but did you did you see what he did with the basketball game the other night no no so we're in the postseason and the calves were playing the nicks and the nicks came in and they were absolutely dominant. They swept the last series. So it's obviously the number one major media market in the United States. A lot of people interested in what the Knicks are doing.

So he goes on ESPN and he cursed the calves. So it's a little silly. It's a little fun. It's awesome. At one point, Eric, the Knicks are down 22 points in the fourth quarter. And somehow, some way the Knicks go on a 44 and 11 run.

they come back and win in overtime, 115 to 104. It is the biggest comeback in franchise history. And Danhausen, of course, is taking credit, as he should. And, and WWE is even allowing him to do cameo where he's offering to curse people on your behalf. I mean, this is unbelievable. They've turned the money printer on. You want to talk about a golden horseshoe? Like, I know we started the show talking about Hulk Hogan, but how much would he love this, brother?

Oh, my God. She would be, how do you not admire this? How do you not? This is so rare. You know, this kind of thing is such a rarity. In fact, it's beyond rare. It's never happened before where a guy who is, let's face it, is essentially a non-wrestler. Yes, he can wrestle, but let's face it, that's not what he's doing here.

That's not where the value is. The value is doing what he's doing. And with the NBA and ESPN and his, you know, the interactions he had with Stephen Smith. I mean, this guy's everywhere, and it's fun and entertaining. It's such a rarity. I've never seen it before like this,

especially, like I said, a non-wrestler. He'll hate me, he'll hate me for saying that. I'm sorry, I don't mean it in a disparaging way, but you know what I mean?

He's, he's here, he's all character. It's not like he's battling for the world title. No, he is, it's not, it's not,

it's fun, you know, and, and as you've said, many times, Dusty Rhodes would tell you that, you know, the show needs to be like the circus. It needs to be like a buffet. You've got to have a little something of everything. You've got to have something for everybody.

Well, everybody seems to love that Danhausen, and he's making a lot of that human money. I do want to ask if you were going to draft from the entire landscape of pro wrestling right now, and now all of a sudden there's a real draft. And Eric, you get to run a company and you get your pick. But Danhausen being your top five of guys you want on your top. team just based on the revenue that's associated with this merch? Yeah. Well, it's because I don't think the revenue would be the most valuable reason to make him a pick.

The revenue is obviously going to be nice, especially as a startup. You need revenue. We've got to survive. Got to feed the monster. I get that part. But the media value and the face value and the marketing and promotional value that comes with that brand. Yes, it creates revenue, but it creates opportunities as well. It opens doors. It is a prime example of what's possible in the world of televised wrestling that isn't available

in any other form of entertainment known to man. You can't come up with a series and just introduce a character and be printing cash 30 days later like you can in wrestling. It's fascinating. Somebody, like I said, I'm dying to meet. I'm going to call Bruce or Nick Con or whoever. I'm going to get a meeting with whoever it can't, at least a Zoom call because I got a know. I got, I got to know how this person saw this opportunity coming.

Well, he's boys with seeing punk. So it's not lost on me that seeing punk may have put a bug in his ear. And we know that Bruce loves this. sort of thing. I wonder, do you think his overall impact on WWE is going to lead to a bit of a change? You know, once upon a time, if you wanted to break in the wrestling biz, like a guy like Bill Watts and a guy like J.R. and a guy like Gerald Briscoe, they would look at your legitimate athletic background.

Hey, was he a D1 football player? Was he a D1, you know, wrestler? And it feels like the performance center had a lot of these D1 athletes. We know they're still doing, you know, lots of NIL deal with college athletes and things like this. But when it comes to, comes to Danhausen. He did not wrestle in high school. He was more of the theater kid and he did comedy stuff and his sort of role model was Conan O'Brien. And I'm wondering, do you think wrestling needs more of that? It feels like there was such a sense of sameness before that when a character like this pops up, everyone gravitates to it. The natural inclination is for people to say, hey,

we need more of that. Whatever it is, it's different than, which a friend of mine is big on saying. you think we'll see more of that in the future? Is there a need for that? Or is that not the direction wrestling needs to go? I mean, if I understand your question, do you think the success of Danhausen will create the need or we'll see more characters for the sake of characters in the vein of a Danhausen?

Theater and comedy as opposed to football and wrestling? No. Now, here's, and here's why, you know, what makes Dan Housen so unique is that he's so unique. The minute he's no longer unique, his value goes down. And this person over here that's going to try to draft off of the creative kind of template that Dan Housen created, now we're going to try to come up with a version and do something that was more comedic and fun, all of a sudden none of it will feel that unique. And it'll lose its benefit.

I think it's a great contrast. I think when you've got a storyline that's intense and serious and you've got the audience engaged that are really into the drama and the physicality of it all, give me a bloodline storyline, you know, in a pay-per-view. But you've also got a big segment of that audience that just want to laugh and smile and have fun. So it's a great, it's like a recipe for a meal, you know, that's the blending of the, of the spices and in the ingredients that make it special. And I think if you've got too much of one thing and not enough of another,

it just gets to be, I tend to think we're going to see a little bit more of this. I mean, it feels like when Joe Hendry was doing something a little different with music and comedy and T&A, everyone graduated to it. It feels like that's happening again with Dan Housen. I'd take a little more. I don't know when we find the tipping point when we have too much. It does feel like when hardcore caught.

on with ECW all of a sudden it was and we were inundated with it and everybody's got a table or a trash can or a chair and we did too much. I hope that we can find the right medium, but I'm so happy for the real life Danhausen and I'm happy that you guys joined us this week. We had a very special edition of 83 weeks last week and next week is Real American Freestyle. Tickets are on sale now at real American freestyle.com. Of course you can do just like I'm doing and watch on the Fox Nation app. Eric, what's the main event? What should we be looking for? forward to next weekend. I think the one that a lot of people are talking about is Colby Covington and Chris

Whiteman. That's going to be a very interesting match to high profile UFC fighters, great pedigrees, both of them. Colby just announced his retirement from UFC. I'm not going to suggest this because he wants to focus more attention on real American freestyle, but don't discount that thought either. So we're really happy to have Colby on the team. And, you know, Kyle Snyder's on the card, you know, if you haven't had an opportunity to see Kyle Snyder, Russell, you need to check him out.

You know, when I first started learning about Kyle, I was kind of impressed, you know, gold medalist, you know, heavyweight, really impressive credentials. But then when I, you know, was near Matt's side and watching him wrestle and this guy is a, he is a powerhouse. So, of course, Gable Steven's making his debut here in Real American Freestyle. Gable Stevenson, obviously a big name in mixed martial arts, former University of Minnesota. Russell came from, you know, Brock Lesnar's backyard, so to speak, spent a little bit of time in WWE, spent a little bit of time in the NFL, and now he's going to spend some time. We've got a multi-match agreement with him at Real American Freestyle. You're going to have your first opportunity to see Gable on the mat.

And if you want to get a little bit of a sneak peek into what his MMA game may look like, check out Cable Stevenson. Real American Freestyle coming to you live on Fox Nation. Real American Freestyle.com is where you can get your tickets. All right, Eric, now it's time for us to do something. We don't normally do as a rule of thumb. We don't usually have guests here on 83 weeks, but boy, we've got a special guest today, a member of wrestling royalty, ladies and gentlemen, from the fabulous Rouge. Joe family. Let's welcome in Jacques Rujo to the program. Mr. Rujo, how are you, sir?

Hello, Conrad. How are you? Hi, Eric. Hey, Jack. How are you, man? Surviving, right? The name of the game, surviving. Good to hear it. You look well. Thank you very much. I appreciate that. I got to ask, you know, it's been a long time since you guys have been on camera together way back during the Nitro era. How did you and Eric first meet way back when, Mr. Rujo? Oh, my God.

I was having a falling out with WWE, and I had a lawyer in Montreal. I had all the connections with the buildings, and the WWE had the exclusivity of the building in Montreal, the Bell Center, which actually the forum at the time, or the Molson Center. And I called Hulk because I liked Hulk, and we had good friendship. and then my lawyer started talking to Eric, and we start getting them to,

I wanted to get them into Montreal. And as I was trying to get them into Montreal, they were telling me, oh, you can't do that because WWI has the exclusivity. But my friend Toki Lazarus brought them the law, which is the Druid, La Chapp, La Libertit of Quebec, so you can't keep a Quebecer from renting a building because of an American.

So that's what we have. That's a racist shit you all got going on here in Canada. You get away with all kinds of stuff and then you bitch about us. Unbelievable. Well, you know what? I'll tell you, I'm so glad I did it. It was the best thing that ever happened to me. I'm sorry that you and I, we didn't have a long, long run together, Eric,

but I want to thank you for that opportunity that you gave me with Hulk in Montreal. and Hulk really, really took care of us. And then he always had a good thoughts for the Ruzhou family. So it was one of the best moments in my career, actually, working with Hulk in Montreal. Yeah, and that was really, that was all Hulk. I mean, that was very, look, I'll be, I'll be honest with you. At that time that you're talking about now,

I had kind of an idea of what it took to produce shows in Canada because it's much, much more complex for an American company with an American crew, with American talent to go to Canada and produce a show because of the Canadian content regulatory commission. They have a very specific set of rules that do a fantastic job of protecting anybody associated as a Canadian citizen with the entertainment industry, whether it be writers, producers, you know, technical people, whatever, there's a lot of protection in the Canadian entertainment system. But as an American, you have to meet certain guidelines. And they were very, very difficult.

And sometimes they were enforced and sometimes they weren't. And there was a lot of personal relationship capital that exchanged hands in any way, shape, or form. People just knew people. And it made it very difficult to break in. And I think we were looking at this as an opportunity to kind of get our foot in the door and figure out a way to navigate Canada because up to this point between the WWE cock blocking us, basically, and through their relationships and the amount of business that they did, because fair enough, they did a lot of business in those buildings, right?

They were protecting the market too. So there's a fair side to that argument as well from their point of view. But this was a great step for us to kind of break that down. And Hulk did it for personal reasons as much as the business side of it. Hulk did it because he did have a lot of respect for the Rojo family. And he did some things for Jacques that I couldn't get him to do. So good on you, Jacques. You're a better man than I in some respects.

You know, Eric, I'll tell you the truth. Up until today, you know, I've been seen Halt the last few years a lot going to his karaoke. And I tried to get some things, that's some information out of him. Like, why did you do this for me, Halt? Like, and, and then Jimmy Hart, and a couple of guys that told me that because of the incident with the British Bulldogs, I'm not going to get into that. But Dynamite kid was one of the best talents in the business. But in the ring, in the dressing room, I mean, he was, he was the hard, he was, he's a bullying a little bit, like, you know, and he was, he didn't like me. And he wasn't the only one.

A lot of people didn't like me. I must say I was a special person. So, so, so, so, so, so, but the fact that he was bullying a lot of people, dynamite and hurting a lot of people, hurting a lot of people's career, I think at one point, whether you like it or not, even if you're king of the ring or you're on top of the world, and you're seeing a guy like bully a lot of people that are just underneath you or around you, friends of yours, you're always going to be afraid that it's going to come to you one day. So, so, so when I stood up for myself and,

And that happened. I think Halt, he never forgot that. Every time I saw him, you know, over the years, he always told me. And I never understood why, but he always told me, Jock, I like you, you're a stand-up guy. You're a stand-up guy. And I never understood what he meant by that. And I think now a couple of people have kind of told me, like, you know,

I think everybody was afraid of the Bulldogs. They had a reign of terror, which was, if you weren't a victim, you don't know what we were going through. And so I think that that's one of the reasons. And I think that Hulk had a lot of respect for the Ruzzo family. He had a lot of respect for Raymond and I also. Because Raymond, you know, he gave like 17 years to the WWE. And I gave 10 years.

And every time we went somewhere, we were always dressed nice. We're always polite. We never went up in clubs. We didn't drink. We didn't do drugs. So at 6 in the morning, people come up to us in the airport. And they'd ask for a picture of something. We were always smiling.

Always nice to everybody. And always dressed nice when we were traveling. So I think that we represented the business very well, and I think that Hulk appreciated that. Another thing, too, Eric, I want to bring to the attention now that we're talking about this, I'll never forget that Hulk told me this. He came to see me one night on Raymond, and he told us,

he says, you know what, guys? He said, thanks for your match tonight. We were on first. He says, thanks for your match tonight, because he said a lot of the guys, they think that the most important match of the evening is the main event. But the most important match of the evening is the first one.

because if you take off the people in the right direction and they don't insult their intelligence and you give them a great show like you guys just did tonight, then it's just easy for us to follow and have a great show. So Hulk had a lot, a lot of appreciation for my brother Raymond and myself and the Ruzhou family. And that's also, that's so great that you say that because it's an insight into what really made Hulk tick.

You've touched on a couple things. You know, because those of us who really knew Hulk and knew Terry Belaya as well as Hulk and knew him very well, know certain aspects of his personality that, you know, wrestling fans, the media, you know, whatever, they never saw it and they'll, they can't imagine it because it's Hulk, right? But there were certain things. Loyalty was one of them. He'd been burned a lot in his life and he respected people who stood up for themselves and

other people, which makes sense in your case, and people like your brother who dedicated as much time as he did to the business and protected the business. And I know that'll be some people will hear that, well, that doesn't sound like Hulk Hogan. Hulk Hogan protected what he perceived to be one of the most important parts of the business. And that's to stay in character. To go out. Yeah, he was Halk Hogan out there on the streets.

He believed, and you've heard it in the documentary. He believed in a way he kind of owed it. it to those fans because that's what they were hoping to get from him. And he wasn't going to not give it to them. And then from our perspective, right, we're looking at this guy who can't figure out if he's real or not. That's not the case at all. He protected the business by staying in character and engaging the audience at 6 o'clock

at the morning. Those little things that seemed like little things were big things to Halk in terms of the way he viewed people. And that made me the luckiest man on earth when he, he, when he did me that favor in Montreal. And it's so funny, because when it happened, Eric, you would, I swear, I got to, I don't know if you know this, but when we got in the dressing room that night, I was coming with the only idea in mind is to put him over, but can I get a couple of good moves in there just to make myself look good a little bit during the match?

And in front of all the boys, he just came out and he said, I swear to God, I'll never forget that as long as I live. He turned around and he raised his voice. He says, what are we doing tonight, boss? And when he said that, I started laughing so much. I thought it was the funniest thing you've ever said. And all the boys were laughing, too. And then I stopped laughing. And then he came back at charge.

And then he says, what are we doing tonight? I said, that's very funny. Haltier, very, very funny. I said, no, no. I said, he says, it's your show. What are we doing tonight? I said, and then I realized that he was getting more and more serious. And he wouldn't let go.

So finally, I just answered him. I said, well, why don't you beat me up the whole match? and I'll just small package you at the end, you know, just as a rip. And he says, that's what we're doing. And he turned around and he went to sit down. And at that point of time, it was the first time that I realized that he wanted to put me over. He had never spoken. We had never, I'd never had an idea that I was going to win that match in my whole life.

I was just so proud, so happy to stand in the other side of the ring with him. Because, you know, Eric, when we first got an 85 in WWW, you know, there was the A, B, and C, town. There was three towns a night, three different crews. And, of course, from the A team that was the biggest team with Hulk on it, and then the B, a little, a little anyway, not as important. And then the third one was really like in a college gym or something. But anyway, there was three nights. Every night there was three shows.

And every time we'd get our bookings, like three weeks before, when we're just getting an adjustment, we'd get our sheets for three weeks ahead of time. And Raymond and I would always sit and adjusting. We'd always look like, are we on the eight team with Hulk? Are we on the eight team? because if we were on the 8th team, we knew we were going to make money. We knew there's going to be 20,000 people.

And even when Hulk was in the dressing room, I got to tell you this, when Hulk was in the dressing room and Raymond and I were there, I was intimidated. Like, you know, almost like if you were a hockey player and Mario Lemur was dressing up beside you

and you just came up for the minor leagues and then you're there. Or playing golf in a golf tournament, Tiger Woods is sitting beside me, you know, dressing and lacing his shoes. So for us, when Hulk was in the dressing room, he had that power over us. Like, you know, he didn't use it. But we were so intimidated.

So I never thought one day. I never thought for one second that he'd put me over in Montreal. It was overwhelming. It took me many years. I always asked Jimmy Hart, I always ask you, Hulk, you know, I never, I don't think I ever came to Hulk and ask him, why did you do it to me? I don't think I had, excuse the expression, I don't think I had the balls to ask him. But he always impressed me so much that man. So what an honor and what an opportunity that was in my career.

Well, I appreciate you coming on and sharing that story because, again, as a friend of his, it bothers me that people didn't get a chance to know or don't at least appreciate that there was a lot more to Hall Cogan than what we read about or saw or grew up with watching on TV. He was a very special guy in a lot of ways. I appreciate you sharing that story. It's cool. I'm sorry just of one thing, Eric.

I'm just sorry that you and I, we didn't connect. It wasn't the right timing or you didn't need us at the time or something. I would have loved to have a great run with WCW. And I would have loved that tremendously. And sometimes I realize in life that has been at the right place at the right time. I was just going to say, Jacques, I hope you would appreciate it. timing is ever. In Conrad knows, I say there's so much he's sick of hearing it.

Timing is everything. It's all about the timing. No regrets on my part because the time wasn't right. That means it might not have worked out the way we would have liked it to. So let's just be glad we were on this call together and look forward to seeing each other at a convention at some point. Yeah, thank you so much. I appreciate that. I'm taking this a lot of weight off my shoulder just having a conversation with you, Eric.

My pleasure. Speaking of the big one going down next weekend. Tell us all about it, John. Yeah, I'm promoting a big Comic-Conne next year with a couple of partners of mine in the town next to Ottawa, Canada, Gatineau. It's going to be the biggest Comic-Con in Canada this year. We've been working on it for nine months, and it's GPW, the company. I kind of joined in the company to help them out. And it's amazing because so much things are going on, the Comic-Con in the afternoon.

And then that night we're having a special event. And this event's been drawing between three and four thousand people in the last four or five years, which has been. for Indy, you know, and then, and during that, and last year when they asked me to join them, I told them, I said, hey, I said, maybe I could help. I said, if, what if I, because I was, I was encouraged or I was motivated by Bushwaker Luke going in a battle royal, and I saw him, and I couldn't believe it. And then after thinking about it, I said, hey, I could do that. So, so I suggested to my partners, I said, hey, you know, it's in nine months from now, I could get in good shape. And I said, maybe I could get in the battle royal. So, so the funniest

thing is I decided to get in this Royal Rumble, which is going to be May 30th next Saturday coming up, next Saturday. But in the meantime, the funniest thing is the promoters, I think they played a rib on me. They played a joke on me. They got Harry Smith, the son of Davy Boy Smith, the British Bulldog, and they put him in the Battle of Royal. You know, so this Eric, you're going to love this. I guarantee you're going to love this, because when they talk to me about it, I said,

hey, you know, sure, you know, the best angle you could do in wrestling is when you, when you create an angle that comes close to reality, you know, it's almost like it's real. So people wonder, is it real or not? So I said, hey, let's do this. So, so I start talking with Harry and, yes, he agrees to do it. That was six months ago. And then suddenly, he's not talking to me anymore. I thought of message him or I thought I talked to him off the air or get a hold of him and he's not talking to me and he's going on podcasts everywhere

saying that, you know, Jean-Rugé, you've been criticizing the British Bulldogs for the last 30 years when it's Dynamite Kid it's not my father. You said you were my father's friend two years after the incident. You work with him in singles and yet again

for the next 25 years you're always saying the British Bulldogs, why don't you just say Dynamite Kid in your podcast and Dynamite kid in your interviews. And instead of putting my dad down, so for the last 25 years, people are coming up to me and they're saying, hey, Jacques-Cujo is knocking your father again, knocking your father again, which I explained to him in many messages. I wasn't knocking your father at all. I was just referring to the British bulldogs because that's how they were known, the British bulldogs. But it was always done in my kid and me. So now the funniest thing is that I'm going into this match. I've got to

tell you. I'm going into this match. And I was at a Comic-Conne last weekend, and Harry Smith was there. And since he's not answering me, so I decided to go to see him at the table, you know, and I told, I said, how are you doing, Harry? So I shook my hand out, like to shake his hands. So he shook my hand, but then he looked at me, he says, Kay Fab, K-Fave, you know. And I'm going like, K-Fa-K-Fa-Fib.

That's like, hey, don't talk because there's marks around or people around or, you know, fans around you and you don't want to kill the gimmick. But I'm saying to myself, you're not answering my calls. You're not talking to me. I want to get together on this, you know, to give a good show next Saturday, you know, in the Roy Rambu. But he just literally doesn't want to talk to me. So I have this little part of me who's saying, I hope he's going to take care of this old man here. I'm going to be 66 years old.

And I know, Lord, he could dress me really good because he's in the dungeon these days. And he's like in the prime of his career. But anyway, it's funny because we're going into this match. And there's doubts in my mind, you know, because, you know, Eric, when you go in a match, you always give your body to your opponent. And, you know, you have to trust your opponent. And I have this feeling, this funny feeling in me. Like, be careful. Like, you know, just be careful.

Yeah. You don't want him to forget that he's dealing with, you know, a different set of bones and ligaments and joints. They just don't stretch as much. And kind of don't have as much elasticity. They tend to pop more than spread, so yeah. Anyway, so it should be fun. Anyway, you'll see the, if I make it out of there, one piece, I'll be happy. But it's fun.

It's the excitement of being 66 years old and still living my passion and having fun and wrestling, organizing this big show that we're expecting 4,000 people, which is going to be amazing. What a night for Rick Martel. Rick Martel did a Comic-Con a month ago in New York, and it was the first one he did in 30 years, and now he's doing ours in Canada, probably the only one he's going to do. And so the vendors and the collectors and everybody are going to come.

Now it's going to be a great event. And we're going to lift a banner to the ceiling like they did for us last year. This company, GPW, put a banner of the Ruzoname up to the ceiling of the building, which is still there now a year later. And then in the arena. So they're going to do this the same thing for Rick Martel on May 30th. And I'm so happy because Rick Martel, you know, what a talent. You know, I'm sure you know Rick Martel and all his past being world champion,

an AWA and everything he accomplished, everything he did for the business. So I'm looking forward for all the Quebecers to come and honor it. It's going to be a fantastic event. GPW Legendsmania.ca is where you can check it out. But the real reason we're here is to take a look at a new video game called Ghostmasters Resurrection. Let's take a look. The Ghost Master's Resurrection continues an all-new DLC with all new experiences.

The supernatural officer Jacques Rougeau will rise. I am the supernatural officer and I will bring the law. Ghostmaster's resurrection is a puzzle strategy game. The gamer is in the role of the Ghostmaster, who's going to free a variety of ghosts from their entrapment. Once free, the Ghostmaster assigns the spirits to haunt the innocent people. Ghostmaster Resurrection season pass allows the gamer to have ongoing access the new ghosts, characters, levels, and features to add on to the game.

Now, through December, there will be monthly updates in the form of downloadable content or DLC, where you can buy individually or the season pass, which will provide all the DLCs at once and for less money. Ghostmaster Resurrection and the season pass are available on Steam, PS5, Nintendo Switch, and XboxXS. One of the new characters coming out on July 30th is our guest today, the Supernatural officer Jacques Rugeot, who long-time fans, of course, remember as the Mountie as well, and of course, part of the fabulous Rizzo brothers with his brother Raymond.

But you should go pick this game up right now. Ghostmaster Resurrection, available now across all supported platforms. Choose to build your collection one chapter at a time or dive in with that season past. Ghostmaster resurrection continues to grow into the definitive supernatural strategy experience. And Mr. Rugeot, we're excited to play with you in this game and hope you have a great event next weekend and thank you for making time to come on the show today and visit with easy e thank you so much and then best of luck to both of you i'm so humble for this to happen to me to be in this game it's it's amazing uh to have my legacy keep on going like that and then and it's just i

sometimes i don't deserve all the things that are happening to me but i thank the lord every day and anyway thank you guys if you want to uh if you want to come and play the game uh then have fun with the supernatural officer jacques joe hope you get the you you free me you the ghost in there in that machine. What a thing. I have a funny feeling that that game and I are going to be spending a Friday evening together with, you know, just chilling. Anyway, thanks, Doc.

Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. All right, gang, that'll do it for us. We greatly appreciate everybody tuning in this week. Tell a friend, hit that subscribe button, turn on the notifications bell, and we'll see you next week right here on 83 weeks with Eric Fishaw.