83 Weeks with Eric Bischoff - Episode 431: Wrestling Creative Is A Rollercoaster Ride

Episode Date: June 19, 2026

On this edition of 83 Weeks, Eric Bischoff and Conrad Thompson dive headfirst into the biggest stories making waves across professional wrestling, MMA, and beyond. Eric explains why he believes TNA Wrestling still has a legitimate path toward long-term success and separates fact from fiction when it comes to the company's much-debated financial outlook. Eric also shares his candid thoughts on Road Dogg's place within the TKO era WWE, why he believes the WWE Hall of Famer was ultimately out of place in the new corporate environment, and what that says about the changing landscape of sports entertainment. Plus, Bischoff revisits one of the most iconic moments in wrestling history and reveals why he asked Scott Hall and Kevin Nash the unforgettable question, "Do you work for the WWF?" during the birth of the nWo. The guys also tackle a strange find in a Marvel comic, did Marvel somehow create name Hulk Hogan in 1961? Then, Eric shares why he's so proud of the incredible rise of Danhausen, despite never having met the viral wrestling sensation. As if that wasn't enough, Eric and Conrad spend plenty of time discussing the latest developments in Real American Freestyle, the growing crossover between combat sports and professional wrestling, and the current state of the UFC. From business strategy to star power and everything in between, Eric offers his unique perspective on where these industries are headed next.     THIS WEEKS SPONSORS HARRY'S PLUS - Get the Harry's Plus Trial Set for only $10 at https://harrys.com/83WEEKS #Harryspod BLUECHEW - Right now, when you buy two months of BlueChew Gold, you get the third for FREE with promo code 83WEEKS. Visit http://BlueChew.com  for more details and important safety information, and we thank BlueChew for sponsoring the podcast. CHIME - Chime is not just smarter banking, it is the most rewarding way to bank. Join the millions who are already banking fee free today. It just takes a few minutes to sign up. Head to http://Chime.com/83WEEKS  . PODCAST HEAT - Want to grow your business with the power of podcast advertising? Reach loyal, engaged audiences through trusted host endorsements across the Podcast Heat network. Learn more at PodcastHeat.com SAVE WITH CONRAD - Stop throwing money away by paying those high interest rates on your credit card. Roll them into one low monthly payment and on top of that, skip your next two house payments. Go to https://www.savewithconrad.com  to learn more.

Today's episode comes to you from the Blue Chew Studio. When you buy two months of Blue Chewold, you get the third for free with promo code 83 weeks. You'll also receive an additional 10% off plus free overnight shipping on your first order at bluechew.com. Hey, hey, it's Conrad the mortgage guy and you're listening to 83 weeks. But Eric Fish off, what's going on, man? How are you? I'm doing great, Conrad. It's that time of year, man, Fourth of July, right around the corner.

Mrs. B's birthday, the family reunion going on at Cody Place. Evan Palsher, part of our ad pre-shows teams coming out with his family. Going to hang out for a couple days. I won't be here, but they're going to enjoy my house and property and explore Wyoming with their kids. So I'm looking forward to that for them. And yeah, a lot going on, man, but it's a great time of year. I love it. Well, I'm excited to be with you here, Eric.

I'm so delighted to see you again. We had the pleasure of spending some time together last weekend for real American freestyle in St. Louis. Books. I know. It was my first seeing an upcast and personal. And I got to tell you, man, I'm blown away. I can't believe the unbelievable success, the growth. And I've seen them all online.

I've seen them on Fox Nation. I have the app of my phone. I have it on my Apple TV. So I've seen all the real American freestyle performances so far. But being in the arena, I can tell you, I've been to, I don't know, maybe 30 UFCs, a bunch of big time boxing. I mean, I was at Mayweather Pack, yeah, which was the super fight. But there was an energy, a vibe in the arena.

From the minute you walk into, you walk out, there's no lulls in the action. As far as an in-person experience, 10 out of 10, I absolutely loved it. I'm sure you're hearing that weekend, week out with Real American Freestyle, though, right? Yes, so certainly every month in a month out, every show we, do, Chad and I and Izzy, my partners look at each other and go, this is unbelievable. Every show exceeds our own expectations, which are fairly high, by the way. And it's fascinating. And I think, you know, you touched on something, Conrad, that I'm really excited about.

When you say that, you know, you've seen it on television. Yeah, it's fun to watch on TV. It's interesting, all that. But when you go and you see it live, that's a whole different experience. And I think people are beginning to appreciate just how much fun and how entertaining freestyle wrestling can be. It's fast-paced. The action is very explosive. A lot of the moves, not all of them, certainly.

I mean, sometimes it's a chess game. I mean, it's literally a chess game out there. And other times there are bodies flying arms and legs and people flying into this. It's just fun to watch. and they're all elite athletes. So I'm glad you had the experience you did. We work really, really hard, and it's not me, really.

Part of a team, hog in the wheel, so to speak. But we've got a team of people who do nothing but produce the live segments between matches to keep the crowd engaged. Because if you watch our television show, you see a lot of, we call them, packages, profile pieces where we kind of go in-depth

and really get to know some of the athletes, right? It's one of the reasons why we're enjoying the television success we are because we're connecting the audience to the athlete in a meaningful, compelling way. But while that stuff is playing on TV, we often don't even show it to the live house, right, because the audio is never as good. So we keep a live crew on the mat and they're just out there having a blast. You know, we got a DJ in the house to keep the energy up. And I think it's that constant energy from the minute you walk in the door to the minute they roll credits, the energy level stays at about an eight every once in a while I'll hit a 10. And that's what makes it so much fun.

Well, I had an absolute blast. I can't thank you and Bronstein and Izzy and everybody for so much hospitality. I got to sit next to Hall of Famer Gerald Briscoe. It was funny because my buddy Cassio was with me. And he goes, dude, is that Mark the Hammer Colvin right there? And I'm like, yeah. And it's funny, Mark Coleman heard us. And he goes, yeah.

And it was amazing. Like, this was the place to be. And I encourage everybody, if Real American Freestyle is going to be in your neck of the wood soon, you should check it out. And you've got a big show coming up in Georgia, not like where you used to live in Atlanta, but the country of Georgia. And it's coming up next month. But the following week, it might be kind of like the WrestleMania of Real American

Freestyle in Milwaukee. Do I have that right? Man, it sure feels that way. It's not really been designed to be that way. But I think at this point, it will be the biggest, biggest show for Real American Freestyle. And I know we've only been around for less than, you know, this is our 11th event.

So it's not like we have a long history to contextualize this statement with. But, you know, every show is building. Every show is getting more exciting. We're getting more and more interests from athletes from all over the world. hence why we're jumping on a plane in flying and staging a real American freestyle, our very first international show in Tbilisi, Georgia. That's the country of Georgia and not the state. And we're doing that on the 11th and the 18th.

As you pointed out, yes, we're back in Milwaukee. And we've not only, I mean, Kobe Covington and Armand Surukian is a big must-see match. Armistis Surukian has really built up not only an incredible winning record, at Real American Freestyle. But, man, the fans love him. And initially, he was a heel, right? If we're going back to the sports entertainment kind of conversation, Armand was a heel.

The crowd hated him. Go back and watch some of his first matches, his first entrance. The reaction to the crowd, they didn't like him at all. And he's out there. We're getting USA chance no matter who his opponent was, right? Now you watch Armand. You saw him the other night. You know, the crowd loves him.

he takes his shoes off, his wrestling shoes, throws him up into the audience, a kid catches it, holds it up to his heart, and he gets, he's got tears in his eyes. It's like the greatest gift the kid ever received. So, Armand gets it. He's connecting with the audience. He's helping to build his brand,

and he's helping to build the RAF brand. And I couldn't be more excited to have Armand as a part of our roster and our team. But Colby Covington, you big, big, relevant name in UFC. Yes, he made the decision to retire from UFC. Why did he do that? Because he's putting all of his eggs in the real American freestyle basket. Why does he do that?

Because instead of wrestler are fighting once or twice a year in MMA in any organization, okay, he can compete four, five, six times a year. Aramund has competed for us six times already out of 11 shows. So it's a way to stay more active, make more money, and stay more relevant, and increase your ground game. It may improve your ground game so that when you do get those MMA shots, whether it's FAC or anywhere else, your ground game is in peak form, which gives you a really big advantage. If you're a fighter in MMA and you're consistent in real American freestyle, your ground game is on point. There's no reason to even consider it when you go into an MMA fight. So a lot of good reasons why we're enjoying this success, but we are.

Now, I can't forget about, you know, Milwaukee and Ben Ascran. Ben Askin, talk about a sports story. This should be a bigger sports story that it is. It's just freaking amazing. Ben Ascran almost died a year ago. Some people reported his death, right? He had a very, very severe infection. I won't go into details over because it's his business, not mine.

A lot of it is public. resulted in Ben having to get a double lung transplant, a double lung transplant, less than a year ago. And Ben being the fighter that he is, because that's what these guys are, whether it's Real American Free Salor, UFC, or any other MMA organization, at heart, they're fighters, right? Ben from his hospital bed, before he could lift his head,

was talking about wrestling and decided he's ready to step back under the man. I'm frankly nervous about it on a personal level. I trust Ben's judgment, his doctors, all that. But Ben Asperin, one of the probably most interesting, highly credentialed freestyle wrestlers in the last 30 years, at least one of in that conversation, no doubt about it, because of his quote unquote funky style. stepping back out under the mat, less than a year after he was nearly pronounced dead, I think that story is an amazing story. And Ben is doing it. He doesn't need the money, doesn't need the fame, doesn't need the attention.

He's doing it because if you listen to him, we had an interview with him last show. Ben, coming as close to death as he did, has a different view on life and his role in it and what he's here on this earth to do. And he's recognized that his journey, not the successful accolades as an athlete, yeah, that, that's automatic. But what Ben has gone through and what he's about to do, he's an inspiration to a lot of people who give up

before they give it 100%. And that's what he's here to do. And that's what he's here to prove. I couldn't be more proud of him and concern for him at the same time. His opponent, Bala Muhammad, no lightweight. Wait, if you know anything, if you've been following UFC at all, you know who his opponent is. Now, is Belal Mohammed's primary skill set, you know, freestyle wrestling? Absolutely not. He's a grappler.

Jiu-Jitsu. He knows all that. MMA. It comes in the territory. So he doesn't have the freestyle expertise of Ben Ascran, but he's got a very aggressive, very solid ground game and he's got a lot of experience. So it's going to be an interesting matchup. I can't wait for Milwaukee. I'm super fired up for that. I, uh, I was actually planning to go last weekend.

And then I realized I'm going to be doing commentary for one FW with road dog. So shout out to red dog and it. So I'm excited to do that in center stage. I've never even been to center stage. So the idea that I get to do commentary and center stage and I'm already committed, I'm going to do that, but I assure you on the little screen on our commentary desk, real American freestyle, we're going to be running the tape. It was a phenomenal weekend.

if you were a combat sports fan, just a sports fan in general. We had the finish of the NBA finals. We had real American freestyle. That all went down on Saturday. But there was a big fight on the White House lawn on Sunday. I know that you're not necessarily a gigantic UFC fan, but I know that this was a spectacle everybody had to see. I got to get your opinion.

What did you think of the presentation on the White House lawn? I mean, it feels, it felt like a movie. Like it felt surreal. Is that the right word to use? Oh, of course. And just the correction, I'm a huge UFC fan. I love the business. I love the sport. I'm just not one of those fans that follows it and is fluent in every, you know, aspect of the current, you know, top champions and so forth. But I do love the sport. I just admire the hell out of what Dana White in particular, and obviously that, you know, everybody that's coming in behind him and really help support him. But you go back to the very beginning of the UFC. because I remember distinctly. I remember getting a phone call one Friday night when I was out having a beer with my wife. And the guy that owned or was in top manager, I can't remember his name right now,

called me and said, hey, would you like to buy the UFC for $2.5 million? Now, at that time, UFC was, they couldn't get into venues. There were states trying to outlaw them. John McCain was, you know, pressuring, you know, trying to keep the middle, whatever. It was a big mess. and the business side of it was a mess. So I had no, I mean, I was interested in the brand, but not interested in the acquisition because I didn't feel like there was anything that I could contribute to turn anything around.

It just was what it was. So anyway, passed on that. But if you look at what Dana White did, the Fratitas coming in, they lost over $350 million on UFC before they made their first nickel. That's a commitment, a big commitment. And it wasn't just the financial commitment. It was the emotional commitment that somebody like Dana and the fatitas made to this. Yeah, the money was the deciding factor in many respects.

But without the passion and the commitment, the money isn't going to be there. And to see what Dana primarily with a lot of help has been able to build is just mind-boggling to me. I know we look at, you know, NFL owners and dynasties. in sports and, you know, even WWE and, you know, Vince McMahon despite all of his controversies, you cannot look at what Vince McMahon built starting in whatever,

1979, 80, whatever it was when he made his first move. You cannot look at what Vince McMahon built and not respect it, if you're honest at all. Again, controversy aside, I think those two promoters, if you look at Dana White, and that's what their business meant, calling them

promoters is unfair. Yes, promotional instinct and skill is a part of it, but these are highly successful businessmen. And to see what Dana's done, what Vince has done, and building these televised sports-like properties in the case of WWE, I'm floored by it, particularly with Dana. It's amazing what they've done. Now, what did I think of the event?

Mind-boggling. Just, I got, I had PTSD simmel. weeks before the event worrying about things I had no reason to worry about in terms of logistics. Wait a minute. How are they going to set the security? How are they going? You know, the complexity of doing anything outside, done that, been there, done it, a lot. The complexity of doing a live sporting event outside is fraught, saturated. completely covered in potential disaster. Everything from the weather to the wind to security issues,

you freaking name it. It can go wrong on live sports outdoors. So I was thinking about all those things. And then to see the event come off as well as it did from a production perspective was very, very impressive. Just the scope of it was amazing to me. I mean, just the presentation. I'll admit, I didn't know they were going to have, you know,

their own orchestra there doing the songs, but that added so much to it. The flyover, what a crazy cool visual that was. And I kind of like everybody else just thought it would be a disaster. You're outdoors in a very humid environment. There's going to be bugs. There's going to be all this light that attracts those bugs. It's just going to be humid.

I mean, it's not like this is the best time of year for this. I know, by the way, they were predicting thunderstorms. somehow, some way, and all comes off without a hitch. One freaking idiot does some dumb shit that becomes a whole stain over the whole thing. But the entrances being deleted from Paramount, I don't know if you saw that, but my wife went to bed on Sunday night. She gets up early. She's got patience at 6 a.m.

So there wasn't an opportunity for her to finish. She missed one of the more visually compelling. I mean, it felt like a freaking Rocky movie. The dude walks out of, I mean, Justin Gathe walks out of the Oval Office, looking at the Declaration of Indeuroreux. looking at the Declaration of Independence wrapped in the American flag and then overcomes six to one odds to win the title. Like nobody saw that coming.

It was an unbelievable. It was a movie. And now it's not there, Eric. I don't know if you've seen, but if you go into Paramount, it just jumped to the fight. And the whole walk, you know,

you're hearing Rogan just keep praise on the champion. Talking about this guy's entering goat status now and he's undefeated and yada, yada, but you miss that context with the edit. And I'm sure some of that's because of the music and, and whatever else it was. But I hate that we can't just readily go show that to people. Thankfully, people screen recorded it and there's clips online on social and things like

that. So I was able to share. But Sunday night, I'm watching by myself fired up in the living room like, dude, what a great American story this is to finish in the main event like that. It is a great story. And you took the words out of my mouth. I tried to interrupt you. But I'm glad I didn't.

It was a movie. It was a movie. it was the last eight minutes of a very, very well-told story in a feature film. It was awesome. And I'm sitting here going,

why would Paramount edit that out? Why would you lose the most valuable emotional part of that show? And I can only think that maybe they don't, I mean, I can't think of it. I mean, that's the heart.

That's the heart. heart and soul of the show. The fight is important, obviously. It's the payoff. It's the finish. It's what we're here to see. But man, the story leading up to it in the moments before are the most emotional, generally speaking, or at least set up the emotion for the finish, as was the case here, for certain. I can't imagine why they're editing that out unless there's a reason why they want. If you want to see all the really good original emotional content, tune in night of live.

Or you can see a recap, essentially, and we're going to leave out some of the best shit. Maybe. Maybe that's a strategy. I don't know. From an emotional standpoint, I mean, what a, what a visual that was. This huge underdog, not only wins, but wins in dominating, devastating, fashion and then runs in the crowd to hug his mom and dad, brings his mom and dad into the ring, puts the titles that had eluded him over his career, over their shoulders. And then no matter

what you think of the president, goes over to the president and the president's heaping praise and says, hey, my mom's a big fan. Can she say hello? Just imagine if you were that guy and forget however you feel about current politics today. But as a little kid, one day, I'm going to be on a worldwide pay-per-view fight on the lawn of the White House and be a six-to-one underdog and not only win, but have the president congratulate me and introduce him to my mom. What? And the fireworks are going off in the background. Like, no matter how you feel about politics in 2026, set that aside, that's fucking

Rocky Four that I just described right there. It's unbelievable. And here's a fun part. We talk often about how time is such a head trip, you know, and if you get, think about it too much. I'll make it crazy. But think about this, as we just described, you know, UFC and I don't know what the dates are. Again, I'm not that hardcore, you know, UFC MMA expert, but I'm going to say sometime around 1995 or so, John McCain is doing everything he can do as one of the more powerful politicians in the United States at that time,

doing everything he could to outlaw and ban UFC. I don't want to say weaponizing, but employing all the leverages, all the levers of federal government and law that he carried with him to force UFC out of business. Cut to the scene you just described. Who to thunk that, right? I mean, look how far we've come. It really is an unbelievable sports story. I was hesitant to bring it up, but I did want to at least acknowledge.

Boy, you had some fireworks at the end of Real American Freestyle. And I know there's a lot of people who are in our chat room hoping we're going to talk about wrestling. We are. But I just wanted to at least address this. My friend wrote a book called Controversy Creates Cash. And I didn't know I was sitting in the middle of controversy until it nearly fell in my lap. Dylan Dennis, I believe, created a brawl after the main event was complete. He got absolutely dominated.

No surprise there, I suppose. But boy, this became an ugly scene. seen and it was a headline everywhere. I know this isn't what you hope for for real American freestyle. I know that you've got a big focus on family and youth and all that stuff. But what did you think of the fireworks at the end of RAF10 in St. Louis? You were with me right afterwards, so you know kind of where my head was at. I was disappointed for a number of reasons and concerned for a few others. Disappointed in the sense that

just being completely honest, I don't think we were as prepared as we need to be to react more quickly and possibly in advance. So that's just something internally, you know, we've addressed and we'll continue to address. That being said,

I was also a little bit concerned about the business side of real American free sale and what some key people might you know feel and was amazingly happy surprised at at the support we've gotten across the boards from from our network that understands like this is a combat sport this isn't tennis this isn't you know billiards this isn't swimming this is a combat sport and you've got very, very high-level alpha athletes out there banging heads and hooking up. And yeah, there's rules and freestyle. But a lot of these guys, if you watch them, even the highest level, look at Bo Bassett.

Bo Bassett is a great example. What is he, 19 years old? He's a prodigy. I think that's the right word. He's an amazing, amazing athlete. And he looks like the nice, he looks like the kid that's, going to come over and offer to mow your lawn just because he's a good kid, right? And he is that kid, by the way. He is that kid. Amazing father, by the way. Watch Bob Bassett wrestle sometime.

His hands are like sledgehammers. So, yeah, he's going up there for a collar and I'll have to hook up. When he hooks up with you, he's going to rattle your brains. The very heavy hands, and they call it hand fighting and freestyle wrestling, but you watch his hand He's got very, very heavy hands. Now you take it up to the level of a Hamzat Chameh, who's also, he's obviously kind of a well-known MMA fighter, UFC. And Dennis, he's just a, he's got the rep. He's a dirty fighter.

You know, in Jujitsu, MMA, that's his rep. And he can go freestyle wrestling, but you saw what happened. He slipped in a guillotine choke, and Hamzat wasn't about to have any of it, and it broke out. Do we see that happening every show? Absolutely we don't. It's happened twice out of 11 shows. Probably need to work on that.

So it doesn't happen quite so often. But it's going to happen. And I think everybody realizes that. They realize it's a legitimate sport. These are legitimate emotions. This isn't scripted entertainment. You know, we have a lot of control. But at some point, it happens.

So fortunately, no big deal. I think going forward, and we're going to continue to bring the best freestyle wrestlers the world can find. And, uh, and we'll continue to have great crossover matchups with, you know, MMA guys freestyle wrestlers. Well, I got to tell you, it was a close call, but if you're looking for really close, you got to look no further than Harry's. I'm going to be obsessed with Harry's for quite a while.

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ounce foaming shave gel, and a travel cover to protect your blades on the go. Just head on over right now to Harries.com slash 83 weeks to claim this offer. And after you purchase, they're going to ask you where you heard about them. Please support our show. tell them that we sent you. Hey man, there's a lot to talk about today, a lot to talk about. But I think we should just jump right into the big news this week. And that's T and A. And I don't know if you've seen, but it feels like they've hit a bit of a bump in the road.

They're having what's being described as a reduction in workforce and there's been a lot of changes. Sammy Callahan posted that he was hoping that he was getting a call from T&A to ask about joining their creative department. In fact, he was given his walking papers. Tessa Blanchard reported that she was asked to pick a choice. Hey, do you want to be CMLL or do you want to be TNA? You pack their bags and headed to Mexico. She's 100% committed to CMLL,

but even at the very top of the food chain, Tommy Dreamer who's been heading up their creative department for quite a while. He announced on busted open on Wednesday that on Tuesday, his relationship with TNA and Carlos Silva came to an end. And there's lots of speculation. There's a rumor right now that Delirious, who we know most recently was one of the headbookers of Ring of Honor once upon a time.

He's going to be moving into that spot, but there's speculation that, oh, you didn't know, road dog may be throwing his hat into the ring. Now, this reduction in workforce by T&A has had a lot of people reaching back to an interview you did with Ariel Hawani a couple of years back where you said, hey, with the right TV deal, I think it's possible that TNA slides into the number two spot and people are having fun dunking on you at your expense. I wanted you to have a chance to respond to that online criticism and also take temperature. What does this look like to you when you see the phrase reduction in workforce?

That feels like a layoff. It feels like a financial move. But oftentimes, you know, we see bookers, you know, replaced all the time. Going back to the territory days, let's talk about Memphis, for example. It used to be six months with Jerry Jarrett with the pencil and then six months with Jerry Lawler with the pencil. And online, you see this routinely in the IWC. People complain about Tony Kahn's creative or Hunter's creative or Tommy Dreamers creative. Fitching about creative is what Twitter was made for for wrestling fans. But talk to us about this from a business perspective. What do you make of this shakeup on the T&A side of things? Well, there were two different questions wrapped up in there, but to the first one, reacting to criticism of me for

suggesting that TNA could be the number two wrestling company. Look, in with the right TV deal, Yes, I still think that's possible. I think as recently as a couple months ago, when the new television deal was announced, I came out and said that this could be, you know, TNA could become the number two. Now, when I said that, if you go back and kind of research a little bit, the relationship with WWE and TNA looked to be like,

one that was going to, it was a good strategic sound relationship. I thought there was going to be a lot more back and forth with talent because there was at that time. It looked like WWE and TNA were going to work together on a consistent kind of talent, trade back and forth, build up some of the NXT talent within the TNA, you know, environment in front of a real crowd, different audience, all that, different type of thing as a part of the developmental process and then move them back into NXT or on into RAR SmackDown.

That's what looked to me as if it was going to happen. And had that happen, which it clearly has not, it's like that relationship essentially stopped the minute the new TV deal was announced. From the outside look again, that's the way it looks to me. Like, WWE jumped in, a lot of press, a lot of talent going back and fork, a lot of oh my gosh you know TNAs is this a great opportunity working with WWE new TV deal yes at that point I believed that TNA could under those circumstances become the number two organization clearly those circumstances don't exist and what now onto the second part um what does it say to me

one step closer to the grave you know if it this is the this is the tricky part this is where Dixie Carter failed and the Carter family, because I think Dixie wanted to grow, she just wasn't able to. This is where a lot of others have failed, is if you're going to commit to being a television-driven wrestling property, you have to commit to the television part. You have to book your shows. You have to write your shows. You have to produce your shows. You have to produce your shows. shows in a way that's going to ensure your survival within the television industry. And that takes a big commitment. That takes money.

Because if you're going to be a live professional sports entertainment version of professional wrestling, if you don't have an audience that convinces a live audience that convinces the television audience, I don't know why the fuck this is so hard for people to understand. This is basic shit. And I listen to people who have been in the business for a long time, refuse to acknowledge it because, well, sometimes the truth hurts. If you're going to make a commitment and say, I'm in the wrestling business and I have a TV show and I'm going to do this and I'm going to be a competitor in this industry, then you better have the money to back it up. And because of that, by that, I mean, you need to go into actual venues like real buildings that that real people. actually perform in, right? Whether it's rock and roll, basketball, hockey, it doesn't matter.

It's got to be a real coliseum, if you will, a venue that represents, at least in sports entertainment, perceived athletic competition. I don't mean to knock it. There's a difference in what we're talking about between MMA and sports entertainment and even real American pre-cell. They're all different, right? But the television audience is only going to feel good about the time that they invest, consuming your product, if they believe it could be true in the case of sports entertainment. You've got to have a live crowd that reacts in a way that reinforces the emotion you want them to feel at home. If you're creating that emotion for them to feel at home,

but what they're watching on television doesn't support that emotion, guess what happens? Nobody cares. It's flat. It's not engaging. It's not compelling. chances are that viewer may or may not come back next week. And certainly isn't going to talk about it to anybody they know. Because why?

It's uneventful. It didn't mean anything. So you've got to produce your show in front of a live audience, a real audience, not a paper house and a soundstage. You can cosplay yourself all you want into believing that there's a way to make that work. There's freaking not. And if you don't have the resources long term to actually get in the game, stay off the field and save your money.

Man, it's going to be interesting to see what happens. You know, we just saw Steve Macklin ask and receive his release. We know Sammy Callahan's doing his thing with revolver now. Tesla's headed for CMLL. Tommy is doing the busted open thing. Let's talk briefly about Road Dog. You know, Road Dog came under fire online when WWB, I think, did him a great disservice.

It's funny, you know, wrestling fans, we want to believe. You know, we want to suspend our disbelief. And so we'll sit down and watch a reality show where we all know there is no reality in a reality show. You're not getting the full story. It all comes down to the edit. They edited Road Dog to not look awesome in an episode of Unreal. And then the internet ran crazy with, oh, this guy sucks.

He doesn't know anything. But if you talk to anyone who's worked with Road Dog, boy, you get a totally different report. And there's even a report from the observer that says James was a very fundamental style booker, which would do that product a lot of good. He's enthusiastic when he deals with talent, which is also a positive. That's a report from someone inside of WWB that they communicated with the observer. I got to think he would probably agree.

What do you think about Road Dog as a creative mind in pro wrestling? I've never worked with him. So I absolutely have no idea. certainly know of him. So my opinion doesn't really mean much. I think clearly out of place in the TKO version of WWE. Clearly out of place. Square peg, round hole.

She's never going to work culturally. From a business perspective, at least as it relates to in ring storytelling and talent. It's not who's right and who's wrong. It's just the chemistry just doesn't work sometimes. You could take two highly talented people or an organization and a talented person in this case. And sometimes it matches the chemistry's right.

It fits. And sometimes you could take a very successful organization and a very successful individual, but culturally from a chemistry point of view, it's just not going to work. And I think that's probably the case with Road Dogg. You know, he is weird calling anybody old school, you know, because I just still remember when I was in my 30s

and breaking into the business, listening to guys that were 70 talking about guys my age as being, you know, young punks and the other guys is being old school. But that conversation has always existed. But I think Road Dog is old school. His perspective, his sensibilities, his creative instinct were all developed and learned through trial and error during a period of time that was so different than the period of time that we're currently operating in. And I would say it's fair to say that Rodolf hasn't been able to adapt. And I think I'm an expert on that.

I think, keep in mind, guess who I replaced in 2019 when I went to WWE to work for Vince? I replaced Road Dog, who is, who is a, I think he was a head writer of Smackdown at that time. But there was a rearrangement of, you know, politics, Smackdown. I took Raw. But my point is, I essentially took his office. I mean, his shit was still in the office when I moved in, some of it. So he tried that role before. And I'm sure he had some success.

But for whatever reason, the chemistry with him and Vince, from what I've read, I don't know, I've never had a conversation with the Road Dog about this. I mean, no disrespect by making any assumptions. I'm just going by what I've heard and read. The chemistry between he and Vince just was such that it didn't work out. Road Dog left. Vince is gone. Road Dog comes back.

And yeah, maybe Vince is gone, but now you've got a corporate culture and process. And that's probably the part that Road Dog or someone like Road Dog, like me, would have a hard time adjusting to is this alien kind of process. And while I took Road Dog Spot theoretically in some ways in 2019, not that I didn't even know it at the time, but essentially what it was, I didn't make it either. I lasted four months. Road Dog lasted a lot longer than I did. Right. I was even less capable of adapting than Road Dog was. So I understand the adaptation challenge and the cultural adaptation part of it.

And that's my guess. It has nothing to do with Road Dog's abilities, his skill, his instinct, his relationship with talent, his ability to motivate and direct talent to become better than they might be without a guy like Road Dog. 100% believe he has all those qualities. And in a place like TNA, quite frankly, I think he'd be a huge leap forward from a Tommy Dreamer who doesn't really have any television experience.

And what experience he has is extremely limited. And not really what I would consider television experience as far as creative. Wrestling? Yeah. You know, yeah, fine. He was a former wrestler. He learned enough about performing. He performed in WWE. He's got enough of that background.

Has he ever sat in a room with television executives to understand their goals, their needs, the way they have to operate and then tailor your creative or your television property to those needs? Probably not. And that's the advantage that a road dog would have is he's had a broader base of television experience at very high levels with very well-established networks. And he's going to be able to bring that experience, if he will. to end up in TNA or AEW or anywhere else.

He'll bring that experience, but he'll also bring very valuable experience that he learned during the era where he became successful as a performer. And I think the ability to marry both of those skill sets together or those categories of skill sets, I think makes someone like Road Dog extremely valuable to T&A, to Tony Kahn, or to whoever else would be interested in talking to a. guy like Road Dog. I would encourage him. Again, I don't know. I'm friendly with him, but I'm not friends with him. We don't socialize or anything like that. But I hope he gets an opportunity because I think he's got a lot left in the tank and somebody would benefit greatly from tapping

into it. I for one, I'm pulling for Road Dog. I hope that the rumors are true. I hope he lands in T&A. I hope it's a hugely successful venture. I think he's a hell of a man and I'm pulling for him. And I'm pulling for T&A. It feels like there's a little engine that could. I mean, we have been, people have been forecasting their death since they started. I mean, by July of 2002, if you were online, you were reading, oh, they're done. I mean, three weeks in, people were saying they were done. And here we are, goddamn, 24 years later, and they're still here. It's unbelievable.

I do want to ask, though, what's real and what's not? You know, there's been speculation. I guess I have an inside source I heard once upon a time say that once upon a time, TNA was bringing in like 300 grand a month. just from their digital department. Now, that doesn't sound like a shit ton of money for you, WWE, but for the little engine that could, hey, you're talking worth of $3 million just on digital?

Hey, that's not terrible. But there was lots of rumor and innuendo. And I think people made assumptions, Eric. Now, I don't know and I don't think you know, and I'm not asking you to reveal any inside information if you're not able to. But there was speculation because Carlos Silva sort of named his shot. And he announced last year that he was looking for a $10 million a year TV deal for TNA. So when they announced an AMC deal, I think naturally people did what I would call

MMA math and they said, well, he said he was looking for a $10 million deal and now he's got a deal. It must be $10 million. I don't know that that's necessarily the case. Now, you and I have talked about that number before here on the show and you said, I'm not so sure if that's as profitable as people think it is, but it could work. And now seeing this reduction in workforce, it makes me ask, do you think they're really getting $10 million a year from AMC? I'm not so sure. This is $10 million in total value of the agreement, maybe. Does it include advertising and promotion on the network at rate card? Probably. Do the real, out of that $10 million, does that $10 million go directly to operation and production expenses? No.

I think maybe half of it, maybe three quarters of it, is the actual revenue and the rest of it is promotional value, not unlike other deals that we've read about. Sure. What does it cost to produce that show? I can't imagine it costs anything less. I haven't watched it in a while, so maybe. And if they're shooting it on iPhones and editing it on their laptops, yeah, maybe. but to air something that's broadcast standard, which AMC would have to be,

I don't know how you shoot a show for under 200 grand an episode and not be embarrassed. That's as down and dirty as I can imagine being and still being able to put it on television. That's $10 million right there. Yeah. 52 weeks a year. So the math isn't mathing for me.

and certainly it won't long term. If that is the math, if they are actually getting 10 million and the show is costing them between two and probably 275 to produce, yeah, they're going backwards. I want to remind everybody,

I don't think there was ever an announcement. And if there was, I missed it. So by all means, let me know in the comments. But I don't think there was ever a press release from TNA or Anthem or anyone saying, hey, we got this new deal and its value to blank.

And even if they did say that, careful what you read and how you interpret it, as Eric pointed out, when people say the value of this contract is, and they're being cute with the wordsmithing, and they're not saying, hey, we will receive 10 million in cash. Those are two different things.

So the promotional value could be different. But I hate this because it feels like a bad sign for wrestling. And people have been saying for years now, oh, wrestling's in a boom. I think you and I have predicted and called that, hey, the boom ended last year at WrestleMania. John Sina and Cody Rhodes in the main event of last year in Las Vegas said every record there ever was,

and it felt like, hey, as a swan song, as we start winding down the Sina retirement tour, it feels like things will start trending down, and that has proven to be the case. But when wrestling companies start to go under, and we're not saying that TNA is going under here,

but a reduction in workforce feels like layoff language, and it feels like things may not be rosy financially, and that's not good for the overall health of the wrestling business, in my opinion, especially when it comes at a time when we're hearing WWV is renegotiating existing contracts saying things like, hey, we can't pay you on past performance.

Do you think the wrestling bubble, if you will, this boom that we've had, we've seen the peak and now we're on the way down? I guess I don't look at it that way. do I agree with you that we kind of peaked out in terms of enthusiasm and excitement, engagement, all things measurable for last year's WrestleMania? Absolutely.

And you look at all the things leading up to it over the couple of years leading up to that, right, including the controversy in WWE and the Genelle Grant stuff and the TKO stuff and the merger and the acquisition. I mean, there's been a lot of drama controversy that. has created a lot of cash and enthusiasm leading up to last year's WrestleMania. And what has happened since then? Well, things have kind of settled down. I mean, from a controversy side of the equation, okay, Vince and Janelle have agreed to fight the shit out

privately in arbitration. So that'll be out of the headlines. There's there'll be a lot of energy talking about that. Creatively, did we hit an apex for a period of time? Probably. but like anything else that we watch on television, you get ebbs and flows. Wow, this is great. This is great. It's not as great as it was last season. But oh, my God, this season is unbelievable.

Guys, you can't stay at a 10, 52 weeks a year. If you think you can, you're delusional. You don't know. You don't understand. You are one of those people that live in. in a room in a bubble that don't really understand anything outside that bubble. Nothing works that way. The music business doesn't work that way.

The movie business doesn't work that way. There's no form of entertainment that works that way. Sports doesn't work that way. So why do we think wrestling is going to reach an apex and maintain that apex indefinitely? And if they don't, oh, WWE's going into the shitter. Oh my gosh, the business has collapsed. This is scary. No, it's not.

It's fucking Darwin's theory of evolution for television. And I think we tend to over-analyze and over-react to it because we want engagement. And I'm throwing myself into this bucket. We're doing it right now. And hopefully people are finding what you and I are talking about as an interesting perspective on an issue that everybody else is talking about. My position, don't sweat it. Don't overanalyze it. Most of the people analyzing it couldn't find their ass with both hands in a fucking compass.

So rather than worrying about it and debating something you don't understand, start with going, yeah, it's not as good as it was last year, but I look forward to what it might be this year or next year. Or just it is what it is. Is it a 10? No. Is it a 7? Yeah, I'll take a 7.

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That's promo code 83 weeks. You also receive an additional 10% off plus free overnight shipping on your first order. Visit bluechew.com for more details and important safety information. And we thank bluechu for sponsoring the pod and the bedroom. Hey, we are live right now on YouTube. We've got some interesting conversation going on here. I want to give a shout out to PJ Taints who's with us here live. And he says, wrestling never ends.

So it's going to go up and down and there's more wrestling than ever today. W.W. It might be going slightly down because of whatever. AEW has always been going down from day one. And look at the growth of JCW and MLW. But the same thing happened in the 90s with WWE. And I thought that's interesting because when you really look at it, it does look like, hey,

WWE's doing pretty doggone well in 90. It's down a little bit, but it's okay. A little bigger dip in 91, a bigger dip in 92. And that trend continues when all of a sudden in 1997, things start ticking up again. And in 98, it's really. rolling and in 99 it explodes. So just during the course of that decade,

you saw a real roller coaster for WWE, including Vince McMahon having to go into his own personal pocketbook, keep the thing afloat in the mid-90s. So wrestling has been here before with the peaks and valleys. And I think that's the reason a lot of people say the phrase that, hey, wrestling is cyclical. Do you believe that phrase, Eric, that wrestling is cyclical? I think human nature is cyclical.

I think it's kind of what I'm, I guess I'm trying to say, and sometimes I get so passionate about something it doesn't come out right. But the success, the relative success of, well, stick with wrestling, is really based first and foremost on creative, because it's all artificial.

This isn't a real sport. This is all something that's created in the end. imagination and minds of people who specialize in this form of entertainment. And sometimes those people are at their peak creatively. Sometimes they're not. Just like a quarterback or a NASCAR driver, or an opera singer, or anybody that performs any artistic endeavor at times is going to be better at it than they are at other times because they're humans. They're not AI. They work off instinct and feel and circumstances and inputs from other facets of their lives.

And sometimes they're on the money and sometimes they're almost on the money. Sometimes they miss it completely. And they get back on the horse and they figure it out and boom, wow, they're crazy. again. I think the cyclical nature probably is affected by culture because things go out of flavor from time to time. Just musically, look at music, look at fashion, design. Anything artistic has a tendency to evolve with the culture. Sometimes it evolves very quickly, sometimes more slowly depending on what it is. But I think in terms of entertainment, you know, the audience's appetite for something can affect the perception of the product as well.

So is it cyclical? Yes. Part of it is the human nature side of the equation. Part of it is just the cultural side of the equation where there's an natural ebb flow of things that people are interested in. It's not hard to figure out, really, unless all you're focusing on is the, you know, internet wrestling community diagnosis. Well, we are live.

If you've guys got questions for Eric, we certainly want to hear them. But I do want to ask you a question because you and I've never really talked about this. Did you have any relationship at any point with George Barrios? He and Michelle Wilson used to be co-president of WWE. Did you spend any time with George? Zero. I think when I went to work there in 2019, he was there. I passed him in hallways, said hello, shook hands once or twice, but never really had a conversation with him.

I do want to talk a little bit about the anniversary that we're on right now, too. We're celebrating 30 years of the NWO, and it was on this week that we had the Great American Bash, 1996. And you might be asking yourself, self, what happened on that show again? What a card it was. I just briefly want to mention for the World Heavyweight title. It was the giant who was the champ defending his big gold belt against Lex Lugar, We also had Chris Benoit and Kevin Sullivan brawling through the bathroom. I mean, it was a false count anywhere and they're in the men's room.

It was outstanding. Sting was in there with Stephen Regal. We had Flair and Arne against Kevin Green and Mongo. Ray Mysterio and Dean Malenko just dazzled fans. This was really the breakout performance for Ray Mysterio, at least here in America. And boy, is it fair to say that Ray Mysterio made a big impression almost immediately on WCW fans? Oh, no doubt, no doubt. And the locker room because, I mean, a locker, a lot of people didn't know who he was.

You know, let's face it. Just because guys were in a wrestling business for a long time, didn't mean they had the finger on the pulse of Lucha Libra. And when Ray showed up, there was a, you know, some of the guys knew him, obviously. A lot of them maybe had heard of him, but it was never in a locker room with him. And I think there was a lot of, wait, what? What are we going to do with him, you know? and then he went out there and tore the place up

and then the conversations probably sounded a lot more like oh what are we going to do now that he's here because he kind of changed he set the bar in a way that nobody else had it it was pretty fun there was there was a real concern that Ray Mysterio individually was going to put a lot of pressure on guys to change the way they work

it really was a tale of two companies and i think what's so interesting about this show i mean we know this is the june show and we all know what happened in july of 96 that's the whole cogan turn the nw o becomes a thing and we're off to the races but you know we oftentimes talk about wcd almost like it's out of the bible right it's bc and a d sort of thing this is right before the transition to the new WCW that's going to be taken over number one with a bullet, the wrestling industry, thanks in large part to the NWO. But I ran through the good stuff, you know, the giant and Lex, Benoit and Sullivan brawling all over the place. Regal, you want to talk about a criminally underrated in-ring performer against the mainstay,

the face that runs the place, sting. And then Flare and Arne working with two pro football players. So that sort of feels like WCW, but I don't think anything drives home the Nitro era more than Malenko and Ray Mysterio, the cruiserweight division and the emphasis on that. I mean, you've really never had an opportunity to see wrestling like that on a big stage here in America. And I know somebody's going to say, well, ECW, I get you, but I'm not talking about midnight on a Saturday night.

I mean like in prime time. And I know this was a pay-per-view, but this is bringing that style to the forefront. But meanwhile, the rest of the card, well, it kind of sounds like old WCW. Rocco Rock Rock beat Jerry Sags VK Wall Street beat Jim Powers Jim Duggan beat

Disco Inferno the Steiner brothers beat Scott Norton and Ice Train Conan beat Elgato DDP beat Marcus Alexander Bagwell and John Tinta

beat Big Bubba Rogers That feels like the old WCW but man the top of the card is just busting down the door with what WCW was about to be but nobody was really talking about all of that

after the show was over including the dynamic debut of Ray Mysterio. What we were talking about was an interview segment that happened on the set. And of course, you were there. And if you don't remember it, I bet your back does. This is when Kevin Nash, who we had most recently seen on the WWF as diesel, he's going to appear side by side with Scott Hall. Now, we know that he appeared on Nitro recently,

but this has the internet a buzz at the time. I mean, the hotline was going nuts. Everybody's talking about it in the newsletter. this is the invasion storyline in its very infancy. But what I really like about this is you look directly at Holland Nash and ask, do you work for the WWF? I don't know that we've talked about this in quite a while, but that is the story that a lot of fans thought they were watching.

The WWF is invading WCW. But by this point, I think you asking that question, point blank, and it's very strategic that it's happening on pay-per-view and not on TV. That was in response to a law. suit. Was it not? Correct. Do you talk about that? Yeah, I mean, I don't remember. The timeline of it all will, you know, it will escape me. But essentially what happened is soon after Scott Hall, you know, joined and the infamous

interview, you know who I am, but you don't know why I'm here. And he had the, the, the, the, uh, diamond stud gimmick on, which is the gimmick that he had before he left WCW to go to WWE. But in the eyes of Jerry McDividend, Vince McMahon, of course, we were stealing their character, even though he looked like the character he was before he left WCW. Nonetheless, we got the lawyer letter from Jeremy Divid. Turner lawyers were chicken shits, no talent, chicken shit, paper shufflers. They didn't want to challenge anything. All they wanted to do was write a check for the least amount possible. That's how you became a lawyer at Turner Broadcasting is just learn how to settle shit.

That was that was the culture. So of course, Jerry McDivitt and Vince Fire Over this lawyer letter, which was all bullshit. All anybody would have had to do was look at Scott Hall, circa 1992 or one in WCW and go, hey, Jerry, pound salt, you punk. Here's what he looked like then. Here's what he looked like on nitral. Leave me alone. But no, they played the game.

They acquiesced. They tried to settle their way out of the issue because that's all they knew how to do. They weren't really lawyers. They were legal paper pushers. And can you tell him still pissed at him? Just kind of. So we responded to that letter. I was told by legal because they didn't work for me.

I worked for them. Here's what you have to do here. This will cover our ass. Of course it didn't. They were wrong about that too. The lawsuit continued and they eventually got a check. But yeah, that was that was in reaction to a Jerry McDivitt, Vince McMahon letter. Talk to us about how you put that scene together.

You know, you're obviously positioned as quote unquote, just an announcer on TV. at this point, people don't know that you have any power behind the scenes. And this is infamously where you're going to take that crash landing after a big jackknife power bomb. I don't imagine that's something that you're going to walk through earlier in the day. I know a lot of people who are watching the show right now think that there's like practice matches before the doors are open for fans and they just plan everything out.

And certainly they walk through some things. But it's not like this. I can't imagine you're signing up to do that multiple times. Talk to us about that day, how the idea is formulated, if there's any hesitation, what the best practices are, how relieved you felt as you opened your eyes and thought, okay, I think everything's moving fine. Talk me through it. I don't really remember much of it, to be honest with you.

I mean, as far as details, like, I don't know whose idea that was. I don't know if it was my idea, it was Kevin, Scots, Kevin Sullivan. I don't know who came up with the idea of me getting power bombed off the stage. I might have thrown that out there, but I don't think I would have. I think that probably had to come from somebody else. And it maybe started out as, you know, just tagging me with a punch and dropping me on stage. And then somebody went, that's kind of boring. What if we did this?

And then somebody else went, well, that's pretty good. But what if we did this? knows. I don't know. But we settled on it early or maybe I knew even before I got there what we were going to do. I don't remember. But it wasn't a big deal to me and I don't, this is going to sound, oh, it's trying to sound like a tough guy. It's not that at all. It's just that I've always been fairly durable. I wasn't worried about, I didn't have any broken bones or busted up stuff. There was no pre-existing injuries. I've been used to getting thrown around a lot most of my life. And since I didn't have any pre-existing injuries, I thought, okay, what's the worse that can

happen? And I really believe that if I would have tried to rehearse it, I would have made myself more nervous. And that's just a personal thing. Sometimes I'm better if I'm just in the moment, tell me what I need to do and let me do it. Because if you give me four hours to think about it, I'll overthink it and screw it up. That's kind of my pattern, right? So there are certain, now there are certain things that I don't approach that way, like flying an airplane, for example. But for this or things that involve physicality, explain it to me so I can picture it in my head and then I'm going to go out and do it. But if I end up rehearsing it or thinking about it, I'll overthink it and screw it up. That's all it was. It's not a tough,

guy thing. It's just I know how I work best. So I wouldn't rehear. They wanted me to rehearse it. They wanted me to walk through it. I just didn't want to walk through it. I saw it in my head. Kevin told me what I needed to do, how to position myself once he gets me up there. And the only thing I had to remember is to tuck my chin. It's all I had to remember. Everything else was done for me. And I wasn't worried about it. I was excited to do it. Again, not a tough guy thing. Just I had a lot of confidence of Kevin. I mean, I'm a buck 80, buck 90 at the time. Kevin's Kevin. You know, he could pick me up, put me anywhere he wanted. So I just didn't have a lot of concern. If it would have been somebody smaller than Kevin, I probably would, oh, maybe, maybe not.

But with Kevin, as big as he was, as strong as he was, I had zero concern about Kevin. I knew he'd protect me. And all I had to do is tuck my chin. And when I took it, what was I feeling. Excitement. Adrenaline? Lots of adrenaline. Whoa. That might have been the best adrenaline rush I've ever had even to this day. Yeah, it was. But it was fun. And I do remember going, okay, is everything still work? And I knew right away, everything still worked. Fingers and toes were moving. My neck was fine. I'm good. And I just laid there and smiled. And my mind, you know, I didn't want to sell it. I didn't want to show the camera, but I was late and thinking, this is just freaking awesome. I want to do this some more. It was addictive because

the adrenaline rush and the dopamine hit you get from something like that for a guy that's never done it before is freaking amazing. Like if you could put that shit in a little baggie and sell it for $100 a gram, he'd be busy. That was awesome. I can't wait for us to talk about the moment, you know, when the Hogan turn happens and you're sitting in the crowd. We'll do that next month because I imagine that's probably the biggest feeling you had in wrestling. But as a performer, when you said you think this is when the adrenaline was running the most, how does this compare like when you're on Smackdown and you're doing the reveal during

the Billy and Chuck wedding? Adrenaline wise, is this still greater than that one? Or are they just totally? Yeah, because it hits you. Yes. So it's a different kind of a hit, right? the power bomb was pure in the moment, adrenaline, in the moment. I went from zero to 160 in a matter of 60 seconds in terms of adrenaline hit.

The reveal was anticipation that built up throughout the entire day. And even the scene itself took a long time to develop. well, compared to a power bomb, took a while to develop. And while it's developing, you're feeling that audience. And that's a, it's a great, I mean, it feels awesome. Awesome. I don't know if it's adrenaline, though. It may be more dopamine.

There's a difference. You know, one creates fight or flight. One makes you, you know, either run from the lion or turn around and try to kill them. that's what the power bomb was. The reveal was more like the anticipation and the experience of the best sexual experience in your life. It starts way, way early. The anticipation builds up. The act itself takes place over an extended period of time.

And then there's the moment, right? I hate to do, I hate to explain it that way. But that's the closest thing I can think of in comparing the kind of feeling you get from a dopamine perspective in a scene like the reveal versus the 100% pure adrenaline rush of a bulk. I do want to ask, it's important, I think, for us to remember that this is done on June 16th. And your big pay per view, the follow up, Bash at the Beach, is only three weeks later. You've only got a three week runway before Bash at the Beach 96. and that's where Hogan is going to join. But at this point,

your mid-June, June 16th, did you know that Hogan was going to be the guy? Had you gone to visit him yet, or had that not quite happened? Good question. I don't really know. If I had to guess, I'd already had the conversation,

I'm pretty sure I had the conversation. I had gone to L.A. to meet with Hulkenny threw his name in the hat. I'm pretty sure that was. was the case, but I couldn't swear to it. I don't know why this line sticks out to me. I know so many people remember the iconic Scott Hall line from the debut in May. You know who I am, but you don't know why I'm here.

And I know people talk about Kevin Nash's debut on Nitro where he says, look at the adjective. Those are the things that people always point to talking about where the big boys play. Those are big fun moments. And I don't know why I remember it so well. But as he's punching you in the stomach before, before Kevin Nash lifts you up and power bombs you or jackknife power bombs you, whatever we want to call it. Scott Hall says, you don't jack us around.

Nobody jacks us around. I don't know why. I remember that so well, but I do. And I think it really said a vibe for you as, even though you weren't being acknowledged yet as being the executive producer or the top dog behind the scenes in wrestling, you don't jack us around.

And then he's going to power bomb me. That's over a year before Vince McMahon takes the Stone Colts Stunner. I mean, we're quite a ways in advance of that. The scripting of the language, things like where the big boys play and look at the adjective and you don't jack us around, are these bullet points? Do you have someone feeding specific lines that the guy, or is this just the guys?

Both. Where the big boys play was a marketing. It came out of a marketing study that Sharon Sadello and I think Mike Weber would have been involved in where, you know, they went into a marketing firm and asked for ideas as to how to brand WCW, rebrand WCW in light of the fact that Halk Hogan and some of these other bigger names were coming to the company. We wanted to draw attention to that. We wanted to brand ourselves as a wrestling company that had talent equal to or better than, you know, the competition.

So that's where the WCW, where the big boys play as a branding tag, you know, came from. And then, you know, obviously you want to weave it into your show, so it becomes part of your brand.

And Scott Hall jumped on that and used it, effectively, good instincts. Kevin, for example, his comment, that's all Kevin. Most of the stuff that you would hear in these promos

came directly from the talent themselves. and they would run it by Kevin Sullivan or me or whatever. You know, so it wasn't like they'd just get up there and do whatever they want to do. There was a process, but it was a very informal process. In some cases, you know, talent would come up to me or I'm sure Kevin Sullivan and say, okay, here's what I'm thinking I'm going to do for my in ring. And they would lay it out and, you know, wait for a response, tweak whatever, green light, go ahead. But it was, I'd say 70% of it came from the talent themselves and maybe tweaked your shape.

by Kevin or me or somebody else on the team. But most of it was original from the talent. What a great moment it was, man. 30 years of the NWO. We are stair stepping it there. We're about three weeks away from Hulk Hogan and the 30 year anniversary of him becoming a bad guy. We're going to be talking about Hulk Hogan,

the beginning of Hulkomania and just the origin of the name. We're also live on YouTube on a happy Juneteenth. Let us know your comments, your questions below. We'll get to those. but right now I want to brag about our friends at Chime. You know, Chime is changing the way people bank. They offer the most rewarding fee-free banking. This is fee-free banking built for you,

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It only takes a few minutes to sign up at chime.com slash 83 weeks. Time is a financial technology company, not a bank, banking services, a secured chime visa credit card and my pay line of credit provided by the Bank or Spride Bank N.A. My pay eligibility requirements apply and credit limit ranges $20 to $500. Optional services and products may have fees or check. charges. See chime.com slash fees info.

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Optional products and services may have fees or charges. Stated annual percentage yield and cashback for Chime Prom only. No minimum balance required. Checking account ranked based on JD Power Survey, published October 20th, 2025. For more information on APY rates, my pay, spot me, and travel perks, go to chime.com slash disclosures. One more time, though, chime.com slash 83 weeks. We are live here, Eric, and we've got some fun questions. I do want to talk about the hulkster. Saw some really cool stuff this week. I want to put on your radar. AOTV productions is with us here live, and man,

he's always got good questions. I don't know if you saw this, but this is kind of fun. Cody Rhodes has said that when he dies, he wants to be buried in his American nightmare robe and all of his wrestling buds in their wrestling gear as an homage to the DC comic identity crisis. I don't know if you've seen this, Eric, but I guess in the comic book land when there was a superhero that would die, all the other superheroes would attend the funeral in their full get up. So Superman is still Superman. He's not showing up at the funeral as Clark Kent.

I kind of, I mean, listen, I hope Cody lives forever. Roll title on that. But the idea that there's going to be a wrestling funeral with everyone in their gimmick, that sounds kind of fun to me. What do you think? You know, when you first started reading it, and I did see that this week, and I kind of went, why would you do that? That's just a little weird. But the more I think about it, the more I like it. It doesn't have to be sad. A funeral should be a celebration. We call it sometimes a celebration of life when we don't want to call it a funeral, right? But when you really think about it, if someone passes and

You approach that service as a celebration as opposed to a morning. I think it's kind of a cool thing. I think it's a healthy thing. So, yeah, at first I was like, yeah, it's weird. You serious? You want a bunch of people showing up in your gimmicks? Are you that far gone? Are you that lost in your own character that you're going to carry it forward into the next world?

And then I thought, well, what's so bad about that? it's actually kind of fun. So yeah, I'll wear a black leather jacket. If something were to happen and he gets struck by lightning and goes before I do, I'm going to, I'll dye my hair black. I'll show up with a black leather jacket. Assuming I get an invitation, of course, otherwise I'd have to crash the party,

which would be consistent with the character, maybe. It is fun. I mean, I hate to even think about that. I don't want to think about Cody passing away. But the idea of everybody appearing in full gimmick would be absurd and fun. Oh, what a great visual by. our main man Dave Silva there.

I mean, yeah, I can totally see. I mean, that almost looks like a Royal Rumble poster from back in the day with all the guys coming down the alleyway and just seeing guys in their wrestling gear drawn into an alley. That in and of itself looks absurd, but knowing that it's a funeral. Cody's an interesting cat, but this is a crazy but fun idea.

We do have some more questions, but I want to give a quick shout out to PJ Taints. He says, I've been using Chime for over a decade, pre-overdraft. You can pull money early. from your next paycheck. Highly recommend.

I've saved thousands and bad habits because of them. I love them. We've got a live endorsement for somebody who's loving our sponsor stuff here. Check out John. Here's a fun one from Robert Smith. He wants to know any superstars that came out of WCW to be successful in WWB that Eric didn't just see happening. So let's think about that.

Was there anybody who was in WCW that when they try their hand in WWE, you thought, hey, I thought they might do okay. but I did not expect that level of success. Like I can say as a WCW fan, I was disappointed with what I saw with DDP and WWB. I don't think, I think DDP was disappointed. That didn't go how any of us expected.

But let's look at the inverse of that, one that exceeded expectations, one that was awesome. Does that exist for you? I, yeah, in a way. Chris Jericho.

When Chris, Chris first job first of all I didn't want him I tried to keep Chris and I was disappointed when Chris left but I was also part of me was like why would he go there I mean I get it at that time it was still WWE and even though we were probably I don't remember when Chris left I remember what year it was but it doesn't matter however competitive we were we weren't in that particular moment. I was just of the belief that Vince would never give a guy Chris Jericho's size that kind of push that's got. That surprised me. Again, it's been the WWE kind of reputation back then is bigger, larger than life characters, all their big stars that got big pushes,

all the guys have found themselves in title matches, generally were the larger-than-life characters that Vince was committed to consistently. So when Chris Jericho made the jump, it was like, why? Why would you not take your chances here where you know everybody here? Now, Chris had a different perspective, of course,

and I'm not saying he was wrong. He was probably right, probably more aware than I was in some cases of the chemistry and the dynamics and the politics, because he lived it. I observed it. Occasionally he lived it. But I just didn't think that Vince would give Chris

the level of push that Chris got based on Chris's size and Vince's taste for larger than life characters. Let's do another one here. We've got one from a wrestling historian. He wants to know, Mr. Bischoff, why didn't Ted Turner stay in the wrestling? business after WCW was sold. Hypothetically, could you have convinced him to buy T&A?

That's an interesting question. I think the merger was devastating financially, as well as personally and emotionally for Ted. Ted literally got the rug pulled out from underneath him. Now, you know, you should have known better. He should have listened to some of the people around him more than he did. He was a, Ted was a, he was a serial pathological entrepreneur. And sometimes people like Ted take, like Ted was, take really, really big chances that don't make a lot of sense to the people around them.

That was the case with the merger. And I think the way it ended up, Ted didn't see it coming. He talked about it in his book. In an interview we talked about, he got blindsided. He never thought he'd be on the outside looking in of his own company. So because of that, no, I couldn't have approached him. I wouldn't have approached him. And to keep in mind, he went from being one of the great medial moguls on the planet to try to convince him to stay in the wrestling business. Yeah, it wouldn't work.

Could I have gone to him about refunding another one? I could have tried. I don't think I would have. I would have talked myself out of it before I got to the car to drive up to his ranch. He didn't live that far from here either, so it would have been tempting. But now, it just wouldn't have made any sense. At that point in his life, it would have made any sense. I wonder we will switch gears here.

By the way, we are live. So if you've got questions for Eric, there's still an opportunity for you to bring them. I saw something thanks to one of my favorite follows on Twitter, Andrew Dice Clay. I don't know that he's a huge Eric Bischoff fan, but he does listen to the show, and I appreciate that. But man, he had a great observation. I guess that was actually pointed out to him and then he thankfully tagged me in it. In March of 1961, Marvel Comics published an Old West story featuring a giant tough outlaw named Hulk Hogan. He appeared in a two-gun story titled Hands of the Hulk in Gunsmoke Western No. 63.

I can't believe this is real, but this is the original Hulk Hogan from March of 1961. And I am only here talking to Eric Bischoff today because a little seven-year-old me fell in love with Polkogen as a character. Now, I'm talking about what I saw on WWF programming. Little did I know that when my dad was a kid, he could have read this freaking comic book and learned about the original, the OG Hulk Hogan. Did you know about this, Eric? Absolutely not. This is the first I've heard of it.

And who produced the comic? Was it a DC comic? Marvel. Marvel owned that trademark in 1961. Yeah. And I don't know if you can see, Eric, but the giant guy on the left and the suspenders, that's Hulk Hogan.

He's bigger than everybody. This is amazing to me. I've got a few man, too. Yes. Now, Hulk looks stupid in a cowboy hat just so you know. He came to my house. He came to this house here, Cody, for Garrett's wedding and stayed with us and went to the wedding and had a party and part of it, the reunion and all that.

But I've got, you can't see him, but I've got a cowboy hats hanging up. I've got a copper cowboy hat by the front door. It's really cool. But yeah, Hulk came in and put out one of my cowboy hats. It just didn't work. Everyone laughed, I'm sure. Yeah, it was funny. My, my, let's put it this way.

I have a big head, actually. But when my hat, when Hulk put my hat on his head, it looked like something out of a cartoon. Yeah, I can imagine. I think we've all seen a bear ride a tricycle at the circus before. It was probably like that. But the idea that was the, the OG, the origins of Hulk Hogan in a comic book from the 60s, Did not know that. Also want to give a shout out to the lapsed fan.

They've been doing a phenomenal breakdown on the story and the origins of Hulk Cogan, the definitive Hulk Cogan story. And they're breaking it down in granular detail. You think sometimes we get too granular on this show. Shout out to the Laps fan. They're doing a great job over there. It's called the complete Hulk Hogan. And they have unearthed what they believe to be the first time Hulk ever uttered the phrase

Hulkomania in a televised interview. It aired on September 27th, It was taped on September 10th, 1980. The idea that Hulkomania was first deployed as an obnoxious heel phrase from Van Goghawks, Hogan, and not after Rocky 3 as a part of his face turn, blew our minds. So Hulkomania was running wild in 1980 and the fans hated it. This predates the big AWA run. This predates Rocky.

Let's take a look. Hammer, I am the superhuman of wrestling. the superstar. But now all over the world, Hulkomania, Hulkomania is spreading. Everybody out there is looking for a hero. Everybody is looking for an idol. From now on, I wish to be referred to and I demand to be referred to as the superhero. Hulk Hogan is a superhero. So he's positioning himself as the superhero of the 1980s, but not one you believe in and you pull for, but one that you scoff at. It's a whole whole thing.

Holkomania originally wasn't going to be, you know, this all American hero for children. But he was doing that in the same way that Kurt Angle years later would do the three eyes as your Olympic gold medalist. And we're supposed to hate him for that. I don't know, man, the idea that this is the origin of Hulkomania, I didn't know that. That was a fun fact, fun find by the laps fan. What do you think watching that footage there, Eric? Well, I just have questions. Like, who fed Hulk that line to say?

or maybe he came out with it himself. I don't know. But generally, now clearly I didn't work with Hulk in the 1980s. I didn't meet him until 1994. But typically Hulk would want to be pointed in the right direction. It's why Jimmy Hart was such a fixture in Hulk. So, you know, Jimmy helped produce a lot of Hulk stuff.

So I'm curious, did. because you couldn't see it in that shot, but Vince McMahon was holding the microphone, I believe. Yeah, right. And didn't Vince McMahon happen to see that Marvel comic book in 1961 as a kid?

Let's see. I was six. In 1961, Vince would have been 15, 16. Well, his dad named him Hulk Hogan, right?

I think it was Vince Sr. Senior who gave him the last name Hogan. So maybe Vince, did Vince, if you're seniors see the Marvel comic book, Hulk Hogan character? Or did Vince? I don't know. I'm giving him the line. Maybe Classy Betty, Freddie Blassie, who was working with Hulk at the time, saw it and fed it. That's good.

That's the origin story that I'm most interested in. Where and who created that line? Was it Hulk? Was it Vince? Was it Freddie? Was it Vince? I don't know, but it's cool as shit. I got to think that superstar Billy Graham may have been the inspiration for Hulkomania,

but the idea that it was supposed to be used as the heel instead of a baby face, I thought was interesting. I don't know. Well, let us know in the comments below. What do you guys think? I do love knowing that it was first in a comic book where we learned the phrase Hulk Hogan, way back in 1961. I also wanted to take a minute and ask you about Danhausen.

I know you caught up on the NBA finals. They had record ratings. The highest ratings since you were involved back in 1998. Of course, it was Carl Malone on one side and Dennis Rodman on the other. It was the Jazz versus the Bulls until it became a WCW pay-per-view the next following month, which was phenomenal. But these are the highest ratings since that time. Of course, a lot of that is based on the phenom wimby.

And then, of course, the number one media market in all of the world, New York City, the Knicks finally doing what they were supposed to do for the first time in, I don't know, five decades. It was a big deal. But somewhere in the middle of it, got to love that Danhausen. It's unbelievable that Danhausen is an even bigger star than last week. It feels like this continues to happen every passing week since he made his debut in February. He was even invited to the parade.

I don't know that they actually made it to the parade, but boy, they're celebrating him at a big way. He's even got official merch. That's right. I can't believe this is real. There is an NBA finals, New York Knicks, Danhausen crossover t-shirt. This has never happened before in pro wrestling. And I said this jokingly last week.

And now I think I believe it even more. There's been only one and maybe there will be two wrestlers memorialized and celebrated inside of Madison Square Garden. Hulk Hogan and Danhausen. Because next month, They're doing Saturday 9th main event in MSG as a part of Fanatics Fest. They're going to have a big WWB show. Gotta love that Danhausen.

Join the uncursed. He's on the poster. They are promoting their biggest autograph, convention slash wrestling show appearance of the year. And who's front and center and featured with no other superstars? Danhausen. There's never been a phenomenon like this. And it feels like we say that every week here on the show. I feel like he may be the outside of the actual Nick players and organization themselves.

Has anybody benefited from this win more than Danhausen? This is unbelievable, Eric. I am so happy. I don't know him. You know, Matt said hello, shook hands once or twice. But I am so happy for that young man. I'm proud of him and I don't even know him. I'm just so I could not be happier.

and I think it's great. Talk about things that are good for the business. To see the kind of success this young man has had, I just love it. I love it. Look, I think the next 10 years of his life are going to be just an amazing journey because this isn't something that's going to, you know, we're not going to quit talking about this a year from now.

I think Danhausen is going to become a brand fixture in WWE for the next. 10 years. Good for him. Yeah, that's a Dan Housin. I know we're all pulling for him, heck of a good guy in real life. And now he's, you're going to be able to sell him a heck of a mortgage brother.

I think, I think Danhausen is all cash. Yeah, probably that doesn't need a lot of money to borrow right now. He is all cash. I don't know if you've seen, but WWE even trademarked the phrase, human monies.

And that created a little bit of a backlash online, which made me laugh where guys were saying, saying he's been using that forever. WWE can't own that trademark. Buddy, if you think WWE and Danhausen aren't going to be together for a long, long time, you don't understand.

Nobody is upset about WWE either licensing or outright owning the phrase human monies. Danhausen's a money printer right now for himself and for WWE. I think it's going to work out just fine, don't you? I was thinking about this the other day. I want to know who in WWE was the champion to bring Danhausen in.

I have to know that question. I never call Bruce Pritchard or anybody else I know in WWE will actually take my call and ask them things about business. I just don't. rude. But I got to know. I got a no name because I want to meet that person. C and punk.

No shit. C and punk was the tip of the spear. I know Bruce Richard was an advocate, but. the real life Phil Brooks and the real life Donovan are tight and well then Seampunk and Bruce deserve a freaking raise they're both making a shit ton of money I don't care they both still deserve a raise yeah why not they're printing money over there hey let's let's do a few more questions here we got a fun one here from Mark B 1979 he wants to know which wrestler have you seen firsthand that

that you think could cut it successfully in R-A-F. Now, of course, he doesn't mean pro wrestling. He means sports entertainment. So is there anybody in the WW, TNA, MLW, AEW, New Japan, in the sports entertainment genre? Is there anybody that you think could hold their own or be entertaining in real American freestyle? Well, be entertaining, of course.

You know, I think Nick Neiman, Dolfe Ziegler, We've actually tried. It's not like he said no, but it's kind of a let's continue to talk thing. I think Chad Gable probably still has enough legitimate wrestling in his tank that if he trained for it, he could go out not only be very entertaining, that will come naturally for Chad by now because of what he's been doing for a long time. His instincts are finally honed in that regard. You don't have to teach you much, anything.

But here's the part that's hard for people that don't really understand freestyle wrestling to understand. And I'm going to put R.A.F. over here. But you're not looking at collegiate, yes, they've wrestled in college, and many of them have phenomenal collegiate careers, NCAA Division I champions, for example. are kind of commonplace in our locker room and on our roster. But when you've got Olympic gold medalists, like I don't know, Kyle Snyder, for example, or you've got a phenom like Bob Bassett, and you've got everything in between.

Henry Suedo, he's going to be on this next card, gold medalist, Kennedy Blades, silver medalist. When you are competing with people at that level, no matter how good you were 15 years ago or 10 years ago or 5 years, or five years ago or three years ago, if you're not at that level today, you're going to get smoked. The difference between current elite level success

and previous successful experience is night and day. So I think Chad Gable, if he committed for a period of four to six months and really focused on his freestyle, trained with some elite level freestyle wrestlers, I think Chad still has enough gas in the tank that he could be competitive and put on a great show that would be highly entertaining. But I think he's probably the only one. I know we started it with me heap and praise on.

I can't say it again enough. If you can get to Milwaukee, you owe it to yourself to go to Real American Freestyle, coming your way in July, tickets on sale now at real American freestyle.com. I can tell you every single event that I am available to attend, I will be attending. It is a lot of atmosphere unlike anything I can remember. it's better than going to a live raw. It's better than going to any other live wrestling that you see on TV because there's a break in the action.

There's a lull. We're all familiar with that. And it just flies by. And I know on paper, I was seated with guys who I'll admit, all of us are not like huge quote unquote amateur wrestling fans. We're familiar with it enough to be dangerous from our UFC fandom. And I didn't know what to expect.

And there was even a comment with my group like, oh, only seven more matches. And that feels like a lot. But when you really understand it and you get into it and you get sucked in, it's the best bang for your buck in live entertainment. If you're enjoying it on Fox Nation, I encourage you, go out of your way to grab a ticket, real American freestyle.com.

It was a 10 out of 10 experience. You will not regret it. I can't thank you for all the hospitality last weekend, Eric, and I appreciate we got to talk about the NW 30th anniversary. It was a bad anniversary, but a fun anniversary. He took a jackknife power bomb through the freaking staging.

And of course, we're going to have to follow that on Nitro. We'll talk about that next week. And in just three short weeks, it's the three-year anniversary of Hulk Hogan dropping the leg and becoming a bad guy for the first time in decades. Stay tuned, hit the subscribe button and tell a friend about 83 weeks with Eric Fish off.