83 Weeks with Eric Bischoff - Episode 433: We Need Evil Cody

Episode Date: July 3, 2026

On this week's edition of 83 Weeks, Eric Bischoff and Conrad Thompson tackle the biggest stories in professional wrestling with Eric's trademark honesty and behind the scenes perspective. The conversation begins with one of WWE's most debated topics as Eric asks, "Is Sami Zayn the new Danhausen?"After famously admitting he underestimated Danhausen's connection with fans, Eric explains why he's wrestling with many of the same questions surrounding Sami Zayn's championship run. Has WWE made the right decision, or is there something Eric still isn't seeing? The guys also explore whether this could be the perfect opportunity for Cody Rhodes to make the shocking leap to the dark side. Could a heel turn be exactly what Cody's character needs, and what would it take for WWE to pull it off in a way that feels authentic and compelling? Then the show shifts into wrestling history as Eric breaks down one of the defining strengths of Scott Hall and Kevin Nash during the formation of the New World Order. From their unmatched confidence to their instinctive understanding of television production, Eric explains how Hall and Nash knew exactly how to command the camera and capture an audience unlike anyone else.     THIS WEEKS SPONSORS LARINECO - Larineco is better-for-you chewing gum that uses the same mineral your teeth are made of to support daily enamel health. Right now, Larineco is offering our listeners up to 50% off at BuyLarine.com/83Weeks BLUECHEW - When you buy two months of BlueChew Gold, you get the third FREE with promo code 83WEEKS. You will also receive an additional 10% OFF + Free overnight shipping on your first order. Visit http://BlueChew.com  for more details and important safety information ROCKET MONEY - Cancel your unwanted subscriptions and reach your financial goals faster with Rocket Money. Go to http://RocketMoney.com/83WEEKS  PODCAST HEAT - Want to grow your business with the power of podcast advertising? Reach loyal, engaged audiences through trusted host endorsements across the Podcast Heat network. Learn more at PodcastHeat.com SAVE WITH CONRAD - Stop throwing money away by paying those high interest rates on your credit card. Roll them into one low monthly payment and on top of that, skip your next two house payments. Go to https://www.savewithconrad.com  to learn more.  

Today's episode comes to you from the Blue Chew Studio. When you buy two months of Blue Chew Gold, you get the third for free with promo code 83 weeks. You'll also receive an additional 10% off plus free overnight shipping on your first order at bluechew.com. Hey, hey, it's Conrad Thompson and you're listening to 83 weeks with the Hall of Famer himself, Mr. Eric Bischoff. Eric, how are you, man? Really good, really good. Sliding into the 4th of July. The first of our crew is sliding in here about 11 o'clock this morning.

Bob and Tammy Deercorn, who've been driving since about 3 o'clock tomorrow yesterday afternoon to get here today, all away from lacrosse, Wisconsin. The Glizzy King, that's the guy that brought me that big gigantic sausage. It covered up the hole inside of my extra large big green egg. but yeah they're on their way and it's going to be fun Lori's birthday little family get together it's all good you kind of have uh I love that you've got your priorities together your favorite holiday is 4th of July every single year it's like uh and you can tell if you just follow Eric on social and if you're not already you should it's at e Bischoff on Twitter but you've been

like retweeting a lot of history of course this is the 250 year anniversary of America but this I just know this is your favorite holiday And this being a big anniversary, I imagine it's going to be quite the celebration at the Bischoff compound. Well, it is. And it's really cool being here where I live in Cody, because this is such a small, but very patriotic town. And it's, it's, it's really a part of the cowboy culture still. And I'm talking about the real cowboy culture, not the TV cowboy culture. that you get that in Jackson Hole for the most part.

But here in Cody, it's pretty traditional. And the Fourth of July, you mean, there'll be people planning next year's Fourth of July at the end of the day on the fourth. They just, the whole community comes together and it's, I don't know, man, it just elevates the vibe in a way that not very many other experiences can, at least for me. So yeah, I dig it. And of course, it's my wife's birthday. And my father passed away on the 4th of July. So it's, you know, kind of a little get together. Not just not to the old man, you know, with a toast kind of thing.

So, yeah, it's just all kind of wrapped into one big, beautiful day. Can't wait. I hope you guys have a safe and happy holiday. And of course, next week, I can't believe it is going to be a major anniversary. We'll talk about that momentarily. But first, let's talk about the big news this past weekend. something that I'll admit. Shocked the hell out of me.

Sammy Zane is the new WWE world champion. He pinned Cody Rhodes in Saudi Arabia, and he now is the world champion. I don't think anybody had this on their bingo card. That would have been a major upset if you could bet on professional wrestling. I think most people assumed, hey, well, since it's a three-way, that just means Goonther is going to pin Sammy,

and that's how they'll get the belt off of Cody. Ah-uh. Sammy Zane pins the champ. Cody Rhodes. What do you think about the new world champion, Eric? It's definitely surprising. You know, I reached out to you immediately, I think, when it happened or shortly thereafter. And I just had questions, right? And I don't know. How do I feel about it? I'm very lukewarm. And I like Sammy a lot. I got to know him just a little bit, very, very little bit.

But for me, I'm a pretty good judge of character and working with someone a little bit, you can get a feel for what they're like as people generally. And I got a good vibe from Sammy. And he's obviously talented. You know, he's obviously disciplined and committed. So a lot of things to respect. But in that role, frankly, didn't see it. Still don't.

But here's the fun part. I could be wrong. I, what was the last time I was really wrong? Oh, I don't know. Danhausen. That wasn't that I was wrong because I didn't predict it. It wouldn't work, but I just wasn't impressed at all. That's wrong, or at least it was, right?

So let's see. And I was thinking about this this morning because I kind of knew this was going to come up. the one thing that I remind myself of frequently is WWE has access to data that probably we don't even understand, really. We may have heard of it, kind of know what it is, but they're going to have so much access to so much information. Does that data tell them something that we don't see as fans?

Because you're seeing something, I don't know. I don't know. I guess what I'm trying to say, and this holds true for every wrestling organization, is just because, and this is Ted Turner, this is classic Ted Turner in his own way. It was like, don't program for yourself, dummy, because this is only one of you, and you're programming for the masses. Sometimes the decisions that you make creatively are for the masses, and not for the hardcore select few sometimes.

So I don't know, but it's going to be interesting to see because on this surface, it's, it's a question mark for me. I can't wait to see what happens tonight on Smackdown. This will be a coming out party for Sammy Zane. I've certainly enjoyed his victory lap on social media. We saw him riding around in a convertible with the belt over the passenger seat.

We saw him at a breakfast bistro table. and he's got the belt propped up there and he's wishing Cody Rhodes a happy birthday. It's really been fun to see. And I know that Kevin Owens and Becky Lynch and a lot of other people had a lot of heaping praise to go around about how well deserving it is that Sammy Zane is the world champion. But not everybody loved it. And I know he's not exactly your favorite person, but I wanted to ask you about Vince Rousseau's quote. He said, remember when Little League turned into everybody getting a participation trophy?

That's what this is. That's exactly what this is. And it's a joke. I got to tell you, bro, if I was ESPN, if I was USA, if I was Netflix, I would be beside myself. I would look at this company and say, you're supposed to be the greatest wrestling company in the entire world and you really believe this is the best you can do. That's what I would be saying this morning.

This is legitimately the equivalent of David Arquette beating Diamond Dallas page. That's what this is the equivalent of. I don't know if I necessarily agree with that, but I do think it's an interesting choice saying, hey, this is a terrible idea. This is so terrible. And he references one of his own ideas. That was interesting to me.

What do you make of this? Not much. Vince Rousseau is, you know, he's really good at this talking. He's really, really good. He can talk a great freaking game. that's what makes him dangerous. Because while he can talk a great game, he can't deliver one.

He's like, oh, for everything. The guy isn't that nearly as creative as listening to him speak would lead you to believe he is. He's so, I don't know. Hey, It is entertaining to listen to, that's for sure. I am curious, you know, what do you, if you had the pencil, you know, what,

what would you do with, with Sammy Zane? I ask because our next big collision course event is going to be SummerSlam. And this year, SummerSlam's a little different. It's, it's a two-night affair. And we've already seen Roman Raines get his marching orders. It's going to be Roman Rains versus Seth Rollins. That has a big fight feel. It feels like it was a destined, it was destined to be a WrestleMania made of

event we're going to get it at summer slam but i mean since the whole shield turn they've been building to this and and this is for all the marbles the big gold belt is on the line for roman rains and set ralins but the other intriguing match that's been announced for summer slam is obafemi and brock lesner in a hell in a cell and that feels gigantic now this comes right after obafemi just won the king of the ring so i think a lot of people assumed that he would be getting a title shot here. Oba said no, he's more interested in Brock Lesner. Brock agreed

as long as he got to do the match in the hell and the cell. So we've got two huge, I guess we'll call the main events already announced for SummerSlam. What would you do with Sammy Zane from here? I don't know. I mean, honestly, that's a head scratcher

for me. Because he did just kind of come from out of nowhere with this, it's not like there's any obvious stories, at least not to me. Now, maybe, you know, people that are listening to this and watch WWWWB more closely than I do can see a path. But sitting here right now, it feels to me like, well, I'd definitely be starting from square one because, like I said it, there's no origin story here, at least not an obvious one. But that's the first thing I would do is find out why.

I've got to give him a reason why. Why did he end up in this position? there has to be a somewhat plausible, believable to the extent that I lean into what you're presenting me. I'm allowing myself to set my belief aside, and I'm just going to get sucked into the story because that's how stories should work. I would figure out how to get to that, because for me, this is just like dropped from the sky. I do want to ask you a little bit about what's next with Cody, too. I guess there's going to be a Cody Sammy Zane rematch.

And I think a lot of people are kind of curious of what type of championship run WWV is going to give to Sammy. I know that, you know, Booker T has come out and said, hey, this is not a participation trophy. Jeff Jarrett has gone on record as saying he doesn't like the term transitional champion. And I think a lot of people when they see this, they think, hey, we're glad that Sammy got the title run, but we don't think WWE is going to really commit to this.

much like maybe people don't believe they really truly committed once upon a time to Ray Mysterio as the world champion or other various guys who've won it in more recent years where maybe people aren't committed or that's at least the perception. So it's like, hey, he's the champion, but not really. But then other people say, no, he's just going to be a transitional champion. What do you think? Is this a short-term thing? Or does it make sense to really lean into this?

because he does have this great underdog story. You go back to the bloodline stuff. And I think you and I would both agree, whereas at first we think that's weird casting, you know, having Sammy Zane involved in the bloodline. But he stole the show so many times. He was a scene stealer over and over and over.

Even guys who were pretty critical once upon a time of Sammy Zane like Rick Claire, they warmed up to him in the confines of the bloodline storyline. So we know he's an incredible in-ring performer. He does good promos. he can be a tremendous, I guess we'll call it character actor, but can they get the casting right for him in the world title position? That still remains to be seen, right?

It's kind of interesting the way you just laid all that out because I was able to kind of see pictures in my head of what could be with a character like Sammy has been. And thank you for reminding me, Bloodline storyline, and what an outstanding job Sammy did when he was handed that ball. I forgot all about that in the context of this conversation, but that's a really,

really important point going to your question, is this long-term or is this transitional? So let me throw a what if out there to you. And this is not going to be brain surgery. It's pretty simple. But everything I've seen felt, even from a distance so far, is Sammy is the ultimate baby face.

People really believe that winning that championship meant a lot. and means a lot to Sammy. That there's an authentic connection there. It feels real. Because it probably is, to a large degree. It's a Canadian thing. Had to do that. Sorry.

Where was I going with this? It feels real for Sammy. He can play. He's not the ultimate badass. He's not a Marvel comic book character. or he's not going to hulk up or he's not going to do his version of a Brock Lesnar or Roman Rains. It's not there. It's not believable. But he is that ultimate underdog, as you just pointed out, and he's like a real baby face here with that title. All he needs is a really good

heel. And if Cody Rhodes doesn't become that really great heel, I'm going to be thoroughly disappointed in his career path. Great opportunity. Great opportunity. Great opportunity. Now you've got a long-term story that's believable with two amazing characters if Cody's playing a heel and embraces that. And you get, so yeah, could it be long-term? There's an example of, now, people may shit all over that story. I don't know, but it's one example on the spur of the moment of something that you could do with. And I think the, I don't want to call them data points, but fact patterns are probably pretty accurate with Sammy.

if you go back and look at the way he connected with the audience, there's enough reason to believe you can replicate that connectivity and reconnect with that audience with the right story and the right position. And they're kind of setting him up for that right now. So maybe I'm optimistic. It's going to be interesting to see what they do with the Cody rematch. It feels, I don't know that they're going to go right back to him.

It feels like they're going to use this as a storytelling device. like you were saying. It could be an interesting pivot point. I do want to talk about Cody, though, because this is now the second time he's lost the title in six months. Of course, he lost it in January to through McIntyre. He wins the back.

Of course, he's successful retaining it through WrestleMania, but now he drops it in Saudi Arabia to Sammy Zane. Where do you think about the highest and best use for Cody is at this point? Is it in the chase? is it is it with him as a champion or do you think it's it's got to be time to have some sort of a crisis of conscious for the Cody character and he's going to lean into the dark Todd I I think Cody has to turn heel I mean I feel that strongly about it

because he's done he's played this character out and you've squeezed every no you haven't you've still got some juice left in that lemon let it go while they're still juice in it because you can come back to it at some point. So don't kill it. But he needs that. WWE needs that. WWE needs a vicious heel. Like a lie cheat and it's, you know, cheating kind of heel.

Not a badass heel. Bad ass heels aren't really heels. Those big, larger than life, Just monsters that look like they could just rip the head off anybody that steps in the ring with them. Yeah, those are really cool, but they're not heels. You need somebody slippery, somebody greasy. Somebody that's credible physically. You know it can, but prefer the greasy way out.

It's simple stuff. It's basic. It's crayons and stick figure character development, storytelling, but it always works, particularly when you've got a really, really, really great performer like Cody Rhodes. If he were to embrace it, if he were to embrace it, I would predict he would be one of the best heels of our generation. He has the potential to do that. Will he do it?

I guess it's up to WWE to a large degree and probably also up to Cody to a large degree. We'll find out. But I hope so. I freaking hope so. Come on. Let's get some stuff going here. Get a little boring. Not all that exciting.

Let's change it. You know, I think a lot of people feel the same way. They like the idea of putting a fresh coat of paint and seeing a different side of Cody Rhodes. I don't necessarily disagree that, you know, we all as wrestling fans like change. But I often go back to thinking about the business. And we continually hear. that Cody and Danhausen, of course, are the top merch sellers.

So would you be cutting your nose off to spite your face business wise to lose that revenue or do you think that you could make him a cool heel and he would still sell merch or is that not the kind of hill you want him to be? Just thinking about the revenue implications of a character turning like this. If you know that he's moving a lot of merch, if he becomes a bad guy, do you lose those merch dollars or do you use him to create another baby? What do you do here, Eric? And it's even trickier than that.

I mean, it's a great question, and you framed it really well. But it goes a step deeper. The step deeper is, okay, we know it's a top seller, but what is the trend bad? Even though it's a top seller, it could be number one. But is it number one by a mile like it was last year at this time, or is it number one by 100 yards? What's the trend? because I don't think you want to ride it into the dirt. Going back to leave some juice in a squeeze,

leave some juice in a lemon, don't kill it. Just start riding it. When you see that consistent kind of deterioration in whatever metrics you're using, I would use merchandise, it's the most, I guess, immediate. Probably can scan that information as it happens.

But I'd be watching those trends. And I think the art in this stuff is not riding it into the dirt. Okay, let's come up with another one. Dusty Rhodes used to talk about it in terms of the lightning bolt, baby. As you ride that lightning bolt right before it hits the ground, you jump on another lightning bolt. You don't ride the lightning bolt into the ground. That's a Dusty Rhodesism.

I heard it at Hulk Hogan's table that before he built the big house. He had a house over on Bel Air Beach. And I heard Dusty explaining that lightning bolt. theory i think he was doing it over the phone anyway i don't know why i went there but yeah right that lightning boat baby get off before it crashes and jump on another one i'm fascinated by the phone call you just described dusty was telling that to hogan when you were convincing him to come to wcw oh no no no this is after hulk was already in and it was like there were beers involved and hulk used to have this big round table there's a wood table and

He must have had it since day one because everybody would carve their initials in it that partied at that table. You can only imagine the names that were carved in there, right? And we were sitting around that table and I think it was talking to me, but I'm not sure if Dusty was on the phone. I don't think he was with us. He wasn't with us. He wasn't in the house. So it must have been on the phone talking about riding a lightning bolt. And Hulk had the lightning bolt carved in.

to the table. I don't know if Dusty put it there all good. I don't know. Interesting. What a cool scene you just painted. I can see that picture in my mind. I want to take a break right now and let you know that today's podcast is sponsored by Larenko. And I know by now you know that Eric and Mrs. B are always looking for ways to upgrade their routine. And recently we've all heard about Lerinkgo. Now this is a chewing gum that actually makes your teeth stronger every time you use it. Leringco is in fact better for you. you chewing gum that uses the same mineral that your teeth is made of to support daily enamel health. Lorico uses a product I can't pronounce. It's called nano hydroxypeatite.

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The taste is very good. I love the flavors, but what I love is the flavor last. I think we've all had gum where it feels like, man, that was like two minutes and two seconds and I'm done now. That is not the case with Larenko. Not only that, your mouth will feel fresher. I know mine does. Your teeth will feel wider.

and this has been my experience, I feel like my teeth are less sensitive to hot or cold, and I give 100% of the credit to Larenko. And I've been able to add it to just my regular routine. I keep them in the car with me now. So if I've got a breakfast appointment or a lunch appointment, I can pop those in. I've even got a pack right by my bed. You're absolutely going to love this. You're going to know that you're doing good and feeling good by doing what you can to help

your teeth stay strong and healthy every time you use it. I think it's like a totally effortless way to make sure that you're, you're taking the best care of your teeth possible. And right now, Lorinco is offering our listeners up to 50% off at bilorine.com slash 83 weeks. That's bilorine, like bylorine.com slash 83 weeks for up to 50% off.

That's B-U-Y-L-A-R-I-N-E. dot com slash 83 weeks. One more time, bylorine. com slash 83 weeks, B-U-Y-L-A-R-I-N-E-E. dot com slash 83 weeks. Hey, let's talk just a minute about Hulk Hogan.

You mentioned him and I did not expect to hear a Hulk Hogan story so early, but our pals over at the Lapse fan, they've been doing an incredible series called the Complete Hulk Hogan, and they're getting more granular on Hulk Hogan's career than anything I've ever seen ever before anywhere. But they recently discovered something that I thought was absolutely fascinating. and it's actually from Michael O'Hara. And this guy was on the Laps fan podcast. Michael O'Hara was actually the founder of Hulk Hogan's first fan club.

And he told the Laps fan that he wrote Hulk's first wrestling resume after meeting him at a fan convention in Memphis. This was back in July of 79. At the time, Hogan is wrestling in Memphis using the name Terry the Hulk Boulder. And Michael told the Laps fan that he's, still had the resume somewhere in storage and he'd go looking for it and by God he found it. I can't believe this is real, but this would have been put together prior to Terry's arrival in Georgia in late September of 79. And the note here says also pardon the white out over some

typos. This version was copied and then delivered to the WWF. So it's this document that served as a young Terry Belaya's first wrestling resume, if you will. And he wound up using this to even get booked for the WWF. I mean, this is pretty crazy history for your pal, the immortal Hulk Hogan. Have you seen this before? What do you think of this? This is pretty cool, isn't it?

I have not seen this. And this is very cool. And I've seen, you know, I've seen some of the postings recently that they put up there. So I knew that this project was really going on, but I haven't done any kind of a deep dive into it. But yeah,

when you can find this original material, that you didn't know existed, it's very cool and probably very valuable. I think it's so interesting that this is the resume that was hand delivered to Arnie Schallin and Angel Alistavoldi at the old Holland Hotel and Times Square. That was the WWF's HQ at the time. And it was this document that ultimately gets impricken hired in the WWF. I mean, this is like, I don't even know what to think. This is like a historical document to me.

This is almost like you're getting, I don't know, an athletic license for Babe Ruth or something. This is wild to see to me. Yeah. And, you know, you look in that resume and, of course, Polk was trained by Hero Matsuda, which was referenced in the resume. And I'm sure at the time that carried with it some respect and some credibility. So that probably helped as well. and then, of course, you got the look, which really is what sold him, I'm sure.

It's kind of funny. It even lists his current employer as the Jarrett Welch Wrestling Company that lists all of his different stats. 6'7, 305 pounds, 32 inch waist, chest 56 and a half, biceps 22, neck 20. His hobbies are wrestling, weightlifting, his favorite holds are bear hug, power slam, Hulkbuster. I don't know what that is. Bionic Obo Smash. Figure 4 leglock. abdominal stretch brain buster and then here's a special note terry boulder is currently main eventing on the

memphis tennessee circuit he's extremely polished and he definitely has the ability to make it as a true wrestling legend boy true or words have never been spoken there terry is a dedicated athlete who trains six days a week his strength is awesome and for such a large man his speed is uncanny he is a gift for public speaking i could say that again terry has a great ability to build up a match. He's never at a loss for words and he's one of the charismatic new faces in wrestling today. And then it continues. Um, I feel he would be an asset to the WWF due to his height, weight, strength, physical appearance and his great drawing power. He would be an excellent opponent for WWF champion Bob Backland.

This is written in 79 and we know that he ultimately, didn't have to beat Bob Backlin, but Backlin drops it to Sheik and a few days later, ta-da, Oklahoma is running wild in New York. And I don't know, man, just seeing that typed out on an old school typewriter, that may be one of the cooler things we've seen in a while. Yeah, that's fun. It really fun. And the guy was cool enough to share it with all of us.

So that's absolutely fun. Super fun. Speaking of fun, we should mention that they've already announced that fun, I guess we'll call it part of the main. event. I don't know that they've called it a main event, but it's got to be. It's Brock Lesner and it's Obafemi and it's in a hell and a cell. Now, I want to talk to you a little bit about this, Eric, because you have been a big proponent on this program of story. You've also been a big proponent of stakes. You think that these matches need to have stakes.

They need to, why am I fighting? What is my motivation? What is my character trying to do here? Am I trying to win the title? Am I trying to win money? Am I trying to get an advantage? What is the story? Well, the story going in to Knight of Champions is, obviously we've got a lot of title matches and a lot of belts being defended. We're also going to crown a king of the ring and a queen of the ring. Now, once upon a time, that just meant a silly ceremony. We're going to put a crown on you. We're going to give you a scepter.

We're going to put a goofy cape around your neck. We're going to call you king of the ring. But then eventually they gave it some stakes, Eric. And okay, now you're going to get the title king of the ring, but you're also going to get a title shot. So I think everybody assumed, hey, if Oba wins this thing against Jay Uso, he's going to go on to challenge Roman Reigns at SummerSlam. And if you listen to a guy like Dave Meltzer, Meltzer believes the biggest money match in the WWE is Obafemi versus Roman Reigns for the title. But the way he says it, it almost sounds like that should be the WrestleMania main event next year, maybe in Saudi, and maybe that's why they did it this way. But a lot of people were kind of scratching their heads when Oba wins.

the title shot by winning the king of the ring and then says, nah, I don't want the title. I want Brock Lesnar. I think other people think, you know, if we wanted to have this format, the concept, the king of the ring tournament matter and have some consistency with the stakes, couldn't you just have Seth Rollins win the thing?

And then he says, hey, I want Roman rains at SummerSlam. Because that did happen. But Oba versus Roman is not happening, which kind of maybe defeats the point of the king of the ring. I don't know. It doesn't feel very consistent. It feels and maybe it just comes down to, hey, Brock didn't want to fly to Saudi Arabia.

I mean, maybe that's it. I don't know. What do you make of this? It could be. That's what I make of it. And you sometimes have to compromise and shift on the fly. I've not met anybody yet that has been able to write the perfect

story and not have something that just kind of is head scratching to say the least. Maybe this is that. Maybe who knows? I agree with you. You can't disagree. Yeah, you know, King of the Ring. They've done a pretty good job branding King of the Ring. And we all kind of understand the significance of the big scheme of things.

And yes, this is a departure from the norm, I guess, for those people who are really dialed into this type of thing and watching the creative closely. and the things that work and the things that don't work. So I get it. It's not that it's not interesting. It's just that it's relatively insignificant and not that big a deal. If it's a temporary thing, if it's a pattern, then, yeah, I think long term you're going to be affecting the branding or the positioning or just the structure, the inherent inferred

structure that provides stakes that people can understand. It's very valuable. So you don't want to ruin it. But let's see what happens. if it's consistent and they're making these kinds of changes, they get a problem. If this is just a bob and a weave because we didn't want to swerve, not a big deal. I'm curious,

is there another finish to this? I mean, it has to be, it has to be Oba winning, right? I mean, this is the rubber match. So as a reminder at WrestleMania,

on ESPN, we saw Obafemi absolutely destroyed Brock Lesnar. And then they did, you know, the clash in Italy. and we saw a tremendous match there where it took, I don't know, half a dozen F-5s or something, but Brock Lesnar has tied it up now at one apiece.

So this is the tiebreaker. This is the rubber match, as they say. The only option, I think, is Oba winning, or do you think they find a way to continue this story? I mean, what is upon a time? I mean, I can't, you know, I can't, none of us can predict, you know, and this is, it's interesting because it forces us to kind of look at different possibilities from different angles, that's really what this exercise is.

And there are different angles and some of them may be a different, better perspectives than others. But I like to do, I like to look at things in the most simplistic way first. Let's go back to the confusing beginning of Oba and Brock when Brock took up his stuff and retired and then just unretired two days later or whatever it was no reason no explanation just pretend that didn't even happen and we move on to okay where we are today what if and i think somebody speculated on this as wasn't my speculation i think we're commenting on someone else's point that what if contractually tkio didn't want him to retire then

What if this retirement is because he's from Minneapolis, you know, kind of sort of, but yeah, he's a Minnesota kid. What if he retires for real this time? What if he pulled the trigger, got emotional, jumped the gun, instead we're going to see it this time. I don't know, maybe. That's what I think a lot of people were speculating, that this would be Brock Lesnar's last match.

And that was born out of conversation where John Senator did an interview prior to his last match in December, where he just kind of in passing said, yeah, Brock's finishing up next year in Minnesota. Well, a lot of people heard that and went, oh,

well, SummerSlam's in Minnesota. It's a two-night event. That's got to be it. And we also heard a few years ago that there was a dream WrestleMania match of Gunther versus Brock Lesner.

And we've seen Gunther become this career killer and just absolutely buzzsaw a whole bunch of legends. So I think people just automatically assumed, oh, this is where it's going to happen. it's hard for me to imagine that Brock Lesnar is not going to get WWVE and the Saudis to open the checkbook one more time for his last match at WrestleMania next year. Maybe that's where it's with Gunther, but maybe not.

But as soon as I saw this past weekend that Sammy Zane won, the first thing I thought of is, hey, are they going to do Sammy like they did Kofi on the very first Smackdown? I mean, it was a feel-good moment when Kofi won the world title. But when Smackdown first went to Fox, they set up Brock Lesnar. versus Kofi and it was a very brief encounter. I was there. I watched it up close. It was shockingly fast.

Well, so I kind of wondered, will they find a way to get the title onto Brock Lesnar in advance of SummerSlam? So now we can kind of check two boxes. Even though Oba said he didn't want the title shot, he wanted Brock Lesnar. If Brock Lesnar somehow beats Sammy Zane and he becomes the champ, you could kind of check two boxes. He gets his title shot. We've got perhaps a world title on Oba on the other side. And I wanted to ask you about this. And I know it's a little different because one was built, was based around a street. But on some level, I do want to ask is Oba Femi as close as

WWV has come to recreating Goldberg and WCW. Oh, yeah. Or recreating Brock. And he's either one. Take your pick. Larger than life. Unbeatable looking. Ferocious.

Great baby face. Scary heel, whatever. He's, he's a prototype. Could you ask AI to kick out anything that looks more perfect as a professional wrestling character than Obafimi? or Brock Lesnar?

And I think that's the role he's going to play, absolutely. It is going to be interesting to see how it shakes out. I hope it's for the title. I do want to ask you, though, if Oba becomes the world champion somehow, some way, at SummerSlam, is it too much too soon? Because we hear that a lot in wrestling that sometimes guys get too much too soon. You can take a look at a guy like Rocky Maivia and people would say, oh, they put the intercontinental title on him too soon.

He hadn't earned the fans respect. And then you go back and you look at the WCW run with Goldberg and you're like, that guy just steamrolled everybody and won the world title and beat Holcogen in the Georgia dome and the biggest nitro ever. It worked out pretty okay. Is there such a thing as too much too soon? Did Goldberg prove that theory to not be accurate? Does it really all come down to the creative?

What say you? Well, it's a creative and it's a talent. How mature is about, you know, where's his head at? How does he approach to business? That's a big, I mean, I don't know, and I wouldn't expect you to do either. So unless you had a feel for that, it's hard to say what's too much too soon until you can determine how people can handle and grow with it or not. Here's the challenge, though. It's like you're damned if you do and you're damned if you don't.

Meaning, if you don't make the decision to, we'll call it Goldberg, the verb, if you don't Goldberg Oba and just give him something, give him a mission and just have him go accomplish the shit out of it, whatever it is, just eat through people until you've got him built up. He's a monster among men. He's a monster amongst monsters, all right? Roman Arrains is scared of him, that kind of thing. Or respects him at least.

Come on, Roman, give a little bit. Respects him at the very least. You either do that and you hold the audience's attention through that ascension, that trajectory, or you're boring them. Because there's only so much you can do with a guy that big. If you don't put him on the path, the audience is like,

eh, there's nothing to get, yeah, he's big, big deal, so what? He doesn't go anywhere. He just comes out every once in a while, throws some shit around, takes his money, goes home. So what? I don't care.

Or you put him on a rocket. There's very little in between with a guy like that. So it's a challenge. I don't know. I don't know what I would do. I don't have enough information to really get a feel for what I would do, whether I'd pick one or the other. I have a feeling I'd start building a hell out of them because people have a very short attention span.

And you either get them while you've got them and you take it where you want it to go or you sincerely risk losing them along the way. Let me ask you, you know, I know that you acknowledged, hey, thanks for reminding me about the bloodline thing. I'm talking about with regard to Sammy Zane. And Ariel Hawani pointed out that he felt like they waited too long for Sammy Zane. If you go back to Royal Rumble three years ago, that's where we saw Sammy Zane, turn on Roman Raines, hit him with the chair, the pop from the crowd was just freaking deafening. And then the following pay-per-view was Elimination Chamber in Montreal. It's about as white hot as we've ever seen a crowd.

The entire world wanted Sammy to win the world title. The only problem was they were about to. to pay off a two-year storyline of Cody Rhodes winning the world title. So that would have been really, really difficult and they didn't pull the trigger on it. So it wasn't Sammy's time. Ariel felt like that was the time to do it. Obviously, everybody's happy for Sammy now. But Ariel was almost suggesting did they wait too long?

So I wanted to ask you now creatively, you've seen people win the title too early and they say too much too soon. Can there be such a thing as waiting too long? I know timing is everything, but what's better? Which is worse? What would you say? It doesn't matter. What matters is that they figure out a great story to get him back to where he was.

The audience has already made the decision how they feel, felt about him. So you're three quarters of the way home before you pick up a pencil. The audience is there waiting for you. All you need to do is help them get to where they were in terms of their passion for the story connection to the story come up with a good story why does it matter why now

why sammy why now if they can figure out for sammy to tell us why and how what are the stakes where's it going he can find a way to reignite that connectivity it's not like what only comes around once in a lifetime

no all the ingredients that sammy had to have to connect with the audience the way that he did so powerfully and undeniably, well, those talents still exist. They're not going anywhere. They're still there. You just have to figure out a way to tap it. And it's a creative issue.

It's not a talent issue. It's not an audience disappearing into the vapors issue. It's just a creative one. Well, you mentioned the powerful ingredients. Let's talk about the powerful ingredients from Bluetooth. Today's episode is sponsored by Blue Tube Gold. Guys, sex is back on the table. or the counter or the bed or wherever you do it thanks to our friends at blue chew gold this is the

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That's promo code 83 weeks. You'll also receive an additional 10% off plus free overnight shipping on your first order. Visit bluechew.com for more details and important safety information. And we thank Bluetooth for sponsoring today's pod and the bedroom. Eric, I don't know that we've talked about this, but it feels like all of the legal woes that were coming Vince McMahon's way. He's settled now. I know he's gone to private arbitration with his personal manner.

and I know that he settled a shareholder lawsuit, and I guess he's got one down. He's still battling the ringboy scandal. I felt like that had been settled a long time ago, maybe not. But it does feel like, man, he's just handling a lot of the issues. And now on the other side of some of these being resolved, there's been a lot of stuff that comes out publicly that I kind of didn't expect. We saw voicemails from Vince McMahon and Ari Emanuel, where I guess they were a part of the discovery.

And now Brandon Thurston and others from post wrestling, it's just out there. You can hear this stuff. And I have to admit, I listen to some of it. And to hear a voice note from one person to another and I wasn't involved, it feels kind of weird. And I know that this is public record now.

So it's out in the ether. But that, I don't know. I can't help but imagine. And I know the technology didn't exist. But what voice notes from like Eric Bischoff and Ted Turner could have sounded like back in the day and that there is that they've been preserved somewhere i don't know it it's it's a fascinating look at how the sausage is made and the business behind the business

or the peek behind the curtain or whatever cliche you want to throw out there uh what do you think of these voice notes being publicly publicly available it's voyeuristic it's typical you know it's it's it's what media has become there's no sense pointing to any one of them they all do it. It's as voyeuristic as it gets. The transcripts of those calls have been out in the public forever. It's not like breaking news. Information has been out, but it's been in written form. There's nothing salacious and sexy about reading something, but if you feel like you're eavesdropping on someone's private calls when they're talking about something as provocative and sensationalized as this is, of course people are going to gravitate towards that.

So it's unfortunately, it's just what our culture is. It didn't mean anything. It just didn't surprise me, frankly. Disappointed me. I don't know that it's necessary that we live at voyeuristically when it comes to legal issues and people's reputations. It's pretty big. None of us want our, none of us would want our phone calls

recorded, potentially recorded and used to embarrass us. And we all say things in conversations that could potentially take it out of context or sometimes not could be very embarrassing. You can't stumble through life without making those mistakes. It's another thing to have it recorded and distribute it. So I have mixed feelings about it, really. I do too. I don't know.

It kind of feels weird. I don't even know the right analogy to, make, but it did feel like something that we shouldn't be hearing, but I was fascinated by, I just can't believe that this is publicly available. And again, I know it was a part of a lawsuit, so some of that stuff becomes, you know, out in the public that way. But just to hear, you know, real life vents, not character vents, but real life vents in a Vince memo or a voice memo was interesting, to say the least, at least for me.

Let's talk a little bit about what you've got coming up. I don't know that we have mentioned this enough, but I know that real American freestyle is going down in Georgia. And I don't mean like where the WCW headquarters is. I mean you guys have an international event in the country of Georgia. And before we clicked record, you were telling me a little bit about what the travel looks like to get there. And I know that you've got a lot going on this week with it being the 4th of July,

your wife's birthday. There's a big anniversary that we're going to be talking about in a minute. But also too, you're flying to Georgia. Like, talk to us about the Real American Freestyle Card and then just explain how living in the middle of nowhere, I mean, this has got to be you traveling

for three days to get there or something. What is this going to look like? Yeah, well, first of all, go to Real American Freestyle.com. You can see the card there. Half of them are Russians and Dagestanians, so I'll just butcher names. But the one that I'm most looking for is Kyle Snyder,

Olympic gold medalist, taking on Sadula. I won't even try to butcher his first name. These two have met five times before. It's going to be another. These are two of the best. Sajilov is probably regarded as the number one wrestler on the face of the planet. Kyle Sander's right there with him.

This is going to be a fantastic one. But in terms of the flight, I leave here Monday, fly to Chicago, spend the night, Chicago, get up, jump on Turkish airlines, fly 14 hours, 16 hours, whatever it is, to Istanbul, and then jump on another plane and go from Istanbul to Tbilisi, Georgia, where we're going to be producing Real American Freestyle, our very first international event. First of what appears to be many, several of them coming up yet this year that'll be announced soon.

So, yeah, things are rolling. Fast. It's real. Check out real American freestyle.com. I, I said I wanted to try to get to as many of these as I could in person. I hope you'll forgive me, Eric.

I'm going to be watching the one in Georgia on Fox Nation. There you go. I don't blame you. All the airlines are supposed to be an amazing airline out. By God, post pictures. I just want to see. I don't know that I'll ever fly it,

but I'd love to learn more. I do want to give a special. Shout out to our buddy Jeff Tiritt. He's going into the Hall of Fame. It's the 27th annual George Cragos, Luthas, Professional Hall of Fame. It is the Wrestling Hall of Fame induction weekend. It goes down July 9th to the 11th in Waterloo, Iowa. And Eric, you were just there. And this year, it's our pal double J's turn. He's taking the prestigious Frank Gotts Award. It's one of the Hall of Fame's highest honors recognizing an individual whose career has made a lasting impact on professional wrestling. Of course,

Jeff's already in the TNA Hall of Fame. He got that back in 2015. He went into the WWE Hall of Fame in 2018, but now he is in the TNT Professional Wrestling Hall of Fame going down next weekend. That's kind of a cool deal. I had a fun time with you in Waterloo, Iowa. How about Jeff going in this year?

I did too. That's a fun time. And, you know, what is it with Jeff Sheridan? He can't swing a cat by the tail without hitting a Hall of Fame induction plaque. I mean, he's been inducted to every Hall of Fame there is. How many, how many, are there very many more halls of fame?

Good. Yeah. I mean, I think he's probably, he's not a long time. He deserves it. He does deserve it. And what a story he's got. And you're actually going to get it memorialized next week on dark side of the

ring. I can't believe it's back, but it is. And what a slate of episodes. I've already had a chance to see several screeners, including part one and part two of the debut. It's going down next Tuesday, July the 7th on Vice, Dark Side of the Ring on T&A and Jeff Jira. And it's a double header, Eric,

and you were actually interviewed as a part of this. So you're in these. But you've got part one and part two next Tuesday, July 7th. And then the finale of the three-part series on Jeff and TNA will be the following Tuesday, the 14th. There's a whole host of other great episodes like the big boss man and Dechro Butcher and Samoa Joe and Mr. Wonderful, lots of great stuff on deck this year. But I wanted to take just a minute and talk about Dark Side of the Ring.

We've actually got a little trailer here. Let's take a look. July 7th, Dark Side of the Ring returns for season 7, and they're kicking it off with their biggest story yet. Jeff Jarrett and the Battle for TNA, a decades-long saga of triumph, betrayal, heartbreak, and the fight to keep a wrestling revolution alive. and immediately following the two-hour premiere episode, we invite you to join Jeff and Karen Jarrett for a special live episode of My World

where they'll share their thoughts and reactions to the premier episode and answer your questions live. Tuesday, July 7th, immediately following Dark Side of the Ring at MyWorldpod.com. Looking forward to it, joined the king and queen of the mountain and myself. We'll all be there live with our pal Dave Silva, our producer here on this program at MyWorldpod.com.

want you to watch episode one and two and then immediately fire up your YouTube and ask Jeff and Karen anything at all. This is the first time you're hearing from Jeff and Karen about some complicated family matters, including their blended family and Jeff's really challenging relationship with his dad. Uh, he's got a story like nobody else. I've often made the analogy that Eric that he's like the, the forest gump of wrestling.

I'm looking forward to this. Have you seen the episodes? And are you looking forward to these? No, I am, and I remember when you said I did the interview, I think, man, I don't remember doing that, but I do know I was in New York City and we did it there. Oh, and I said some horrible stuff about you. Nah, I didn't either. I'm just kidding. I hope. Yeah, I'm looking forward to it. You know, look, Jeff, Jerry Jarrett, Jeff, Jeff, a big part of the fabric that makes up the cloth.

lot of professional wrestling, right? I mean, it's, you can't really talk about modern professional wrestling in any kind of real detail or depth without talking about the regional influences, particularly, you know, out of the Memphis area. It had a big, big influence on the business. And Jeff, you know, is, is a part of that. So always interesting to hear those perspectives. You know, you can, you can hear an interesting perspective from a guy like Jeff from when he was 10 years old and see wrestling what it was through the eyes of that 10 year old kid at that time. I think those conversations are valuable. It's part of history, man.

Take advantage of it. It is crazy to think. Like, imagine as a kid, if your dad is downstairs and your stepmom is holding up a lamp without a lampshade and there's a guy in his underwear all oiled up in a dimly lit room. And you're like, what were we all doing? Well, we were just creating a character called Hulk Hogan. Go play out back. Okay.

And you're running around in the backyard. And here comes a giant man coming over the hill painted up with a moon and stars on his belly. And you're like, what's going on? It sounds like an episode of Chris Matthews to catch a predator. It's unbelievable. I mean, Kamala was created in Jeff's backyard. Hulk Hogan was created in Jeff's basement. Like, what?

What's going? on what's happening here like it's such a unique story and and and i don't think that the world knows all the details about some of the the rumor in innuendo all of that gets cleared up be sure to check out dark side of the ring it's going down next tuesday july 7th on vice uh and jeff karen and i will all be live immediately after episodes one and two on youtube so join us want to grow your business with the power of podcast advertising reach loyal in games Aged audiences through trusted host endorsements. Across the Podcast Heat Network to learn more about advertising opportunities, email Dave

at PodcastHeat.com or visit our website at podcastheat.com. But that day is also another pretty special day. Maybe the most important day in modern wrestling history. Next Tuesday is the 30-year anniversary of Hulk Hogan turning heel and joining Scott Hall and Kevin Nash. It's the 30 year anniversary from Bash at the Beach. If you haven't already, hit the subscribe button, turn on the notifications bell.

I think it's fair to say that you can expect some special programming from 83 weeks next week here on the program. But I wanted to take this a minute today and talk about 30 years ago this week, because July 1st was the last nitro before Bash at the beach. You're at the U.S. Air Arena and Landover, Maryland. We're just six days away from wrestling, changing forever. And Scott Hall and Kevin Nash have been invading WCW. We've seen them coming down the stairs carrying metal bats and, you know,

the police getting involved. And it's been a whole scene. I mean, hell, they sent you, you know, careening through the air through the staging at the pay-per-view in June. And now we're set for a big collision course. Six days from this Nitro is the three-on-three match. Jim, we know that our baby face heroes are going to be Randy Savage, Lex Lugar, and Sting, but on the other side, it's these outsiders.

It's Scott Hall, it's Kevin Nash and a mystery man. And on this episode, you don't have Scott Hall and Kevin Nash storm into the building like they have all the other times. No, this time, Scott Hall and Kevin Nash present themselves as just regular old ticket buyers. They're coming to their seats armed with sodas and poppies. corn, no baseball bats in sight. And the executive, uh, or the head executive of security, whatever we want to call him, Doug Dillinger and fronts them only for Holland Nash to be like,

nope, we paid for tickets and shows them the ticket stubs. This is where they're pointing out. We're here to see the big boys. Of course, this is the era where WCW had been marketing themselves as WCW where the big boys play. And then for the next fifth, 15 minutes, you got Hall and Nash just heckling the crowd. I got to tell you, I really dig this. You know, this was all born out of Scott Hall at the end of May coming down the crowd and taking over a match right in the middle. The prior week to this, we saw the guys come down doing the same thing,

but this time with baseball bats and coming over the guardrail. And now we're seeing them just as regular ticket buyers with their sodas and their popcorn. This is a nice little wrinkle. How did you guys land on this? Don't know. No way of telling. And you remember last week when I think it was last week,

forget the context of the conversation, but it was something to do with, you know, who gets credit for the cool factor in NWO. And I made sure to point out that it was really Scott and Kevin that brought the cool. And this is a perfect example of that.

I would imagine this is a, very collaborative kind of idea, meaning a bunch of guys sitting around a room, sit at the bar at the airport, marry out, whatever, or watching the replay of Nitro, you know, the previous Monday night. Because that's where a lot of the ideas for the following week came from. I'm not being funny, but it's true because that's the only time guys were together. You know, they were together during the day for TV, but they're, you know, they're focusing primarily on what they're doing that day or that night.

And then they all go their separate ways, but you get a couple hours while you're watching Nitro, the replay at the hotel bar with those same people, a lot of the great ideas came up, came, came were developed that way. And I would imagine this is an example of one of them, a collaborative effort, but definitely driven by Scott and Kevin, definitely. It's little things that make it so great, like the idea that you have the head of security. Doug Dillinger, if you were a long time WCW fan, even if you didn't know his name was Doug Dillinger, and it was called out quite often by Tony Chivani. So even if you didn't know the name, you knew, hey, that's the head of security.

You just knew that as a regular viewer. So to see him confront them like he would, any sort of unruly fan, I thought was really cool, a nice touch. And then the guys just presenting their tickets, like, hey, what are you going to do? We got tickets. You can't kick us out.

But then I think it goes a step, further to position them as fans because they're holding the bags of popcorn and the soda. If they're not holding the popcorn and soda, now it looks like their wrestlers doing an angle. Oh, they're going to have some physicality. But because they're holding popcorns and soda, you're like, well, they're just here to watch the show. And then you can contrast all of this with the ridiculousness that no one else could pull off. Look at what Scott Hall's wearing. My man has a, the hair slick back, a toothpick behind his ear, a toothpick in his mouth,

and a vest on with no shirt. Like this guy looks like he's the headliner at a dick dancer show. And he's sitting in the front row. And all I'm thinking as a kid is, man, these guys are cool. It's unbelievable how cool these guys are. But the little touches here of showing the ticket, having the popcorns and soda, that really sold this scene to me. It did.

I'm really glad you noticed that. And that's why directors and sometimes cameramen, the people who capture these images, don't nearly get enough credit. Nobody talks about them, right? But they're so responsible for the audience's ability to see the story you're trying to tell.

And just the fact that there was a camera position, and Kevin, by the way, had the presence to make sure he held that ticket up for probably what felt like an unusual length of time if you were doing it in a natural kind of environment. Oh, Scott.

But making sure that the camera saw that because that ticket told the story. It told the viewer immediately, oh, these guys are just fans. Security can't do anything. The pop porn just kind of put it over the top, right? But it's even more believable. But it's those little details. That particular camera shot, Scott having the presence of mind to work the camera with the ticket because that's the narrative here.

That's the point of this. is kind of brilliant, but in a very organic natural way. Scott knew what to do. Cameraman knew how to position himself. Little details, man. Great television is nothing but a lot of little details. I absolutely loved it. You guys were patient with it.

You let it develop. You let it just evolve. And, you know, one of the things I think you're doing here. And we touched on this last week is you're making cool heels. And I think you thought I was sort of chastising you last week because you go, well, it kind of worked out, Conrad. And I'm like, no, it's, it's revolutionary cool.

Like, you know, the, the horsemen were cool in the way that, hey, these guys are sharp dressers and they got all the pretty ladies and they got the fancy Rolexes and, you know, we're saying they're in limos and all this. Okay, that all sounds cool. But cool in like a Gordon Gecko, asshole, yuppie kind of way. These guys are the smarmy, smart ass, anti-hero. What are you going to do about it? I don't know.

Cool is the right way to do. describe the outsiders. I, and I think you nailed it last week when you said you give the credit to Scott and Kev for that because so much of WCW had been positioned as, man, I hate to say it, but some of the gimmicks and presentation were not cool. Like there's nothing cool. I don't mean for this to be ugly about the honky talk man. Nobody's going to be like, man, I got to get a jumpsuit like that.

It's a different kind of heel. It's a different kind of presentation. Even if you've got a baby face like Sergeant Craig Fitman, and maybe a little kid would say, oh, I like the guy who wrestles in the camo. But as an adult, you're like, yeah, I don't know. And then there's like VK Wall Street and some of these other gimmicks that they're okay, but it doesn't feel new. It doesn't feel smart.

It doesn't feel exciting. It doesn't feel smart ass. Relatable. Yes, relatable. There you go. I think Colin Nash, they were the secret saucier. And I know that we're going to give a ton of credit in another direction in a few days.

But if this wasn't established, as being cool. I don't know that we ever get to the Hogan piece, right? Hulk knew pretty early on when you saw Scott come down and then Kevin show up. My phone started ringing, but to your point, and like we said last week, so much of this, Scott and Kevin obviously at this point, but Sean Waltman, I've said this a bunch of times, doesn't get nearly enough credit. Conan, certainly. Thoughts and praise out to Conan, by the way. God bless your brother.

Coney had a lot of influence later on with the vibe and the feel and the cool. So it wasn't just any one person, but it was a great team, people. They were all buddies. So it was easy. We know that you guys started referring to Hall and Nash as the outsiders because you didn't want to say, hey,

they're here from the WWF. And certainly you had to make that distinguishment on the Great American Bash pay per view. You had to say, hey, do you work for the WWF? Just point blank. So you had that on the record. But you started referring to them as the outsiders. Was that a grandiose plan or did you just in the spur of the moment?

Hey, I got to, I got to refer to them somehow. I'll call them the outsiders and then it stuck and then it became their name. It was an, it was an intentional, smarmy way of working around it. I got you. And then it became. a thing. The outsiders was a movie that Scott Hall was a big fan up, by the way,

and referred to it often. So I think that probably made it a little easier for him to grab a hold of this. But no, I think it was just a it was a way to make a reference to them without necessarily making a reference. I didn't want to give them a name.

I didn't want to get married to a character identity for either one or both of them at this point. So I needed to keep it kind of vague. Well, let's talk a little bit about the other big piece of news that happens on July 1st. But before we do, I think we can all agree that the NWO was money. And when it comes to money, I think you need to learn about rocket money. Maybe you're not in the loop on this, but I want you to know you can save so much money

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Eric, it's often glossed over. I don't know why people don't talk about it more often. I'm counting on us to talk about it here today. Because as we're recording, it's July the 2nd. Yesterday was the 30-year anniversary of the NWO. And I know what you're saying to yourself, you're saying to yourself, self. Didn't you say that Hulk Hogan turned on July 7th? Isn't the 30-year anniversary of that next Tuesday?

Well, that is correct. But Larry Zabisco on Monday Nitro on July 1st is the first time we ever heard anyone say the words, New World Order. And it was done early in the show. Larry Zabisco said, quote, there will be a New World Order this Sunday in professional wrestling. and you and I really kind of stumbled across this a few years ago when we were doing watchalongs of these episodes and we were both like, oh my God, he said it before Hogan did. Of course, Hogan famously called it the New World Organization.

Either way, Larry says it here six days prior to bash at the beach. And I don't know that the internet wrestling community or pro wrestling history has given enough credit. So I want to ask you now, I'm going to put you on the spot here, Eric. Did Larry Zabisco accidentally name the New World Order? Well, I don't think he accidentally did it. I think, you know, it's very clear. And I remember us, you know, kind of stumbling upon that together. And, you know, prior to you and I hearing Larry refer to it together,

I was always under the impression that it just kind of rolled out of my subconscious because I'm the one that gave that promo to Hulk right before he went out. In fact, we spent about four. 40 minutes or so, 30 minutes, kind of in a little janitor closet, basically, equipment room where it was quiet, just going over that interview and back and forth and back and forth. That's the way Hulk worked, right? Before me, it was Gene Oakland that would often do that with it. So we were going over that, and I'm the one that gave New World Order to Larry, or to Hulk. but obviously I heard it and I and I my explanation was because you know new world order is something that's you know the the reference to new world order is as old as time and you can find all kinds of references across politics and religion and all kinds of other things so I just assumed I must have heard it somewhere I read it somewhere didn't know where to attribute it to little did I know I could have attributed to and should and have attributed to

Larry's Obisco because as you pointed out of him, there's six days before he made reference to next Sunday. There's going to be a new world order. And I, of course, just wove that right into my work with Hulk and the rest is history. So it started with Larry. It's pretty amazing that Larry Zabisco is right at the center of naming this. We know the outsiders and the new world order,

they're going to be off to the races forever and ever after. this. I mean, real wrestling history, does it even feel like 30 years ago, Eric? I mean, on the one hand, it feels like it was 15 years ago. But on the other, it's like, yeah, that was definitely 30 years ago. What say you? I just time has become this really warped concept for me. I feel like I'm 25. My driver's license says I'm 71. When I say I'm 71, it still flips me out because I don't feel 71. Therefore, I can't be, but I am. It's confusing.

And now you throw the concept of 30 years when things that have demonstrably changed my life and impacted the lives of my children, these things occurred. And because they were so important, they feel like they just happened yesterday, but in reality, it was like a generation ago.

And yeah, that's stuff up. I'm getting used to it. It feels weird. I love that we're able to talk about this and celebrate the 30 years of the NWO. I want to remind everybody, we're going to have a special piece of business loading here on the YouTube. So go ahead and hit that subscribe button,

turn on the notification bell. You don't want to miss the 30 year anniversary. We're going to be celebrating the NWO all year long for the rest of the year. or we're even going to do a series where we're going to talk about what should have been the proper end for the NWO when we do that story, the end WO. Stay tuned for that in the coming weeks and months here on 83 weeks. But, you know, I know that it all worked out the way it was supposed to. But if you didn't name it the New World Order and it wasn't called that, would the whole thing have just been called the outsiders or whether other names ever considered? I know that ultimately, you know, we get the logo designed and we'll talk more about that in the coming weeks.

But were there ever any other names that you remember being near the top of the list for this? No. And if it wouldn't have been NWO, it probably we just would have kind of backed into outsiders. Yeah. It would have just been a natural ease into that. But thank God. because I think the NWO was way stronger. No doubt.

Buckle up, boys and girls. I can't believe it. Next Tuesday, the 30 year anniversary of Hulk Hogan turning heel. Let us know in the comments below. What were your favorite NWO moments? And more specifically, what did you think when you saw Hulk Hogan turn his back on the fans

and say these fans can stick it, brother? It was unbelievable. It was a major wrestling moment in history. It changed the industry. and we're going to celebrate the anniversary next week. 30 years, hit that subscribe button, turn on your notifications bell, and tell a friend about 83 weeks with Eric Bischoff.