83 Weeks with Eric Bischoff - Strictly Business #15: RAPID FIRE, AEW All Access, WWE $9bb , Sami Zayn

Episode Date: February 24, 2023

Today on a LIVE Strictly Business, Jon & Eric will run down some of this week's hot topics. 0:00 Strictly Business #15: RAPID FIRE, AEW All Access, WWE $9bb , Sami Zayn 0:05 START 1:00 BIG ANNOUNCEMENT 2:00 AEW ALL ACCESS 9:00 Under delivering on the announcement 10:00 Meltzer 11:52 AEW's 1mm rating 14:00 THE XFL 21:32 Would Eric have joined the first XFL? 27:00 WWE worth $9 billion? 31:45 Endeavor? 33:25 Dwayne Johnson? 35:00 MLW on Reelz 35:30 WWE Attendance is up 42:27 Sami Zayn in the main event? 58:00 Q+A FOLLOW ALL OF OUR SOCIAL MEDIA at https://83weekslinks.com/ Stop throwing your money on rent! Get into a house with NO MONEY DOWN and roughly the same monthly payment at SaveWithConrad.com Get early, ad-free access to more than a dozen of your favorite wrestling podcasts, starting at just $9 over on AdFreeShows.com. That's less than 15 cents an episode each month! You can also listen to them directly through Apple Podcasts or your other regular podcast apps! AdFreeShows.com also has thousands of hours worth of bonus content including popular series like Title Chase, Eric Fires Back, Conversations with Conrad, Mike Chioda's Mailbag and many more! Plus, live, interactive virtual chats with your favorite podcasts hosts and wrestling legends. All that and much more! Sign up today at AdFreeShows.com! If your business targets 25-54 year old men, there's no better place to advertise than right here with us on Strictly Business. You've heard us do ads for some of the same companies for years...why? Because it works! And with our super targeted audience, there's very little waste. Go to AdvertiseWithEric.com now and find out more about advertising with Strictly Business. Get all of your Strictly Business merchandise at https://boxofgimmicks.com/collections/83-weeks Want to create live streams like this? Check out StreamYard: https://streamyard.com/pal/4975053643186176 Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

what's going on everyone it's time for another edition of strictly business presented to you by the ad free shows network and podcast heat i'm john alba joined as i am every single week on this podcast by the man of the hour himself mr eric bischoff and eric we are live today pal we're live with all of our friends here on the ad free shows network off the ad free shows network on the 83 weeks youtube it's a party here on strictly business how are you my friend i'm doing well john But right off the bat, I have a very special announcement. Ooh. We don't have an announcement. Would you say it was a huge announcement? Yeah, it was a huge announcement that we don't have a huge announcement. Hey, David Kelly.

David Kelly is with us here live. Have free shows.com? Thanks for joining us, Dave. You have any questions why we're doing this? Yeah, feel free to chime in. We're free ball and having a good time here on Strictly Business this week. we're going to talk some of the top wrestling stories from this past week and react to them accordingly. If you're not subscribed to ad free shows, guys, make sure you go ahead and do so now.

Add free shows.com. You'll get access to Strictly Business, bonus content, and all the other great podcasts under the Conrad Thompson umbrella, plus 83 weeks, of course, early access to that. Subscribe to Strictly Business on the 83 weeks YouTube channel on the podcast stream, wherever you get your podcast and at 83 weeks. I don't want to waste more time, Eric, because we're going to have a lot of great spirited conversation, and we encourage you to get in on the debate by commenting below, my friends. Let's get to it. Eric, our top story comes out of last night's AEW Dynamite, which, by the way, we just got word about 10, 15 minutes ago. They were up pretty big this week for dynamite, numbers-wise, over a million.

And it's that TBS orders its first new unscripted series of 2023 with the green light of AWR. all access. It's a reality show that AEW has been producing for some time. It's going to premiere in March directly following AW Dynamite. The press release says that it will feature the likes of Adam Cole, Dr. Britt Baker, Sammy Guevara, Ty Conti, the Young Bucks, Saraya, Wardlow, Eddie Kingston, along with AWC, CEO, GM, and head of creative Tony Kahn. And one of the most interesting parts of this press release here was that Turner President Jason Sarlanis said that A.W. has such an amazingly loyal and dedicated fan base that brings in more than four million viewers to TBS every Wednesday night, he claims.

Quote, with all access, we are bringing that incredible audience a whole new way to experience the wrestling universe they love. We have a powerful partnership with Tony Kahn and A.W. with this new series, we are expanding the franchise in a way that invites viewers inside the world of wrestling like never before, end quote. I guess off the bat there, Eric, that's got to be positive. news for AEW in terms of what could be next with TV rights coming up, I'd have to imagine. You know, it's an indicator for sure. And I've talked about this before. I think the fact that TBS decided to program Power Slap adjacent, you know, following AEW, was a good sign. They're trying to program that night around an anchor program, in this case, AEW.

That's always a good indication. I think making a commitment to an unscripted series is another good indication. I don't think people should look too much beyond that, other than it being a good indication. You know, the proof is going to be, as they say, in the pudding. Let's see how that show does. It's going to be interesting because, you know, people that have never successfully produced. a non-scripted show, reality show.

Think that it's, oh, it's just a matter. We're just going to follow people around with cameras and get some really good stuff. And it's not that. You know, formatting becomes an even more critical element when it comes to nonscripted. Building a story for the characters and making sure that those characters resonate with your audience

in an unscripted environment where there is no action. Now, I don't know what the show is going to look like, but typically an unscripted series like this wouldn't involve a lot of wrestling action. But who knows? We'll see. But sometimes producing a nonscripted show like this, a doc follow is the category that this would probably fall under, is even more reliant upon great storytelling. And as of late, there's been no indication from AEW

that they have any real handle on continuity or story. storytelling. Now, I'm pretty sure I know the showrunner for this show. My guess is it's the same showrunner that was used for Cody and Brandy. And I won't mention his name in case I'm wrong. But if indeed it's the same showrunner, he knows, he understands what it's going to take to make a good non-scripted series and how to tell stories. The question will then become, how difficult is it going to be for this person, any showrunner, how difficult is it going to be for that person to get the type of support and cooperation, not only from the talent, but from AEW,

that's going to allow him or her, whoever that showrunner is, to really focus on building great story. Because if there's not a commitment from the talent, as well as from AEW, to really focus on stories and the drama and do it in a way that builds throughout the hour and from episode to episode in a very compelling, progressive way,

this will be another, this will be another nonscripted series that we won't hear about again after the first season. But we'll, look, we'll find out. I don't want to be negative about it. Sure, sure. The runner that ran, roads to the top was it was if it's the same guy, a great showrunner, great showrunner with a lot of

experience. But again, the real challenge with a show like this is going to be getting everybody on the same page. That I think is going to be, if the show is successful, then the showrunner, along with the talent and AEW have made a commitment to do just that. If it's not successful, it's probably going to be one of the reasons why. The press release indicates that the show is produced by Shed Media in association with AW and activists, artist management, executive producers are Tony Kahn,

Dan Pearson, Lisa Shannon, Sam Burns, Alan Bloom, Bernie Cahill, and John Kaneck. So I'm not sure if any of those names are present. Yeah, Sam is the guy that I know. My daughter, Montana, is the one that brought Sam. My daughter was involved early, early on, in developing roads to the top. She worked for Shed Media for about seven or eight years.

She's no longer there. And my daughter was the one responsible for bringing Sam in as the showrunner. So Sam is good. He's capable, more than capable. He's very good at it. Again, it's going to come down to support, cooperation, and we'll see.

What do you make of that four million viewers number that was touted in that press release? but what's the best way for me to react to that bullshit press releases are nothing more than marketing tools and that's exactly what this was you've heard the phrase you know numbers lie and liars use numbers I'm not calling anybody a liar here but I think the extent of exaggeration is precariously close to being misleading

at the very least. Well, look, you can't really look at it as a bad thing. As far as I see, you're expanding content at the end of the day. That's something that's going to give. No, it can be a bad thing. I disagree with you. If you're doing a piss poor job. Sure.

Okay. You're doing that additional content. And it's a letdown. And people are, you know, you build up their anticipation with this important announcement, which I think came off horribly, by the way, in typical tone. econ fashion overstate under deliver you know that's been the pattern that we've seen now for a while um but expanding the content can be a bad thing if if if you do a bad job of it is that the correlation you get because i've heard you mention stuff like that from like thunder when they

expanded when they weren't really quite that's a matter of over that was oversaturation that's not the same thing at all um what i'm talking about is you know you're going to bring these characters you're giving you know just read that press release which builds up anticipation that's what press releases are for their marketing tools that's all they are and now you've you've created this really great press release that's the easy part now you have to deliver and if you under deliver and you get people excited about something and they tune in and go this is not that great that's where it's bad thunder's thunderhead issues but it wasn't that issue yeah again that's just me picking the break

here of Eric Bischoff, something I get to do every single week on Strictly Business. And just a little bit, I'm going to pick Eric's brain on what went down at Elimination Chamber with Sammy Zane and some of the ratings that come with that. So make sure you're tuning in throughout the course of that. And that's a big one, John. I'm glad you brought that up right away at the head of the show because I think there's a lot of discussion, you know, in between our last call that you and I were on, a business call for a new sponsor for Strictly Business, by the way, that we're both very excited about.

we'll be talking a lot more about them next week. But in between that call and sitting down to record this, I checked my social media. And, you know, of course, Dave Meltzer came out and, you know, was pretty vociferous about his opinion that Sammy should be the one headlining WrestleMania in there with Roman. And he gave all of his reasons why. I disagree.

I don't strongly disagree. I think that, you know, there's a case for that, but, of course, now, Dave is coming out with a statement that's saying WWE is very concerned about Sammy's popularity going into WrestleMania. Number one, I don't know who Dave thinks he's talking to, but I doubt anybody that really mattered would express that opinion to Dave Meltzer. The only people that talk to Dave Meltzer are people that use him because he's a useful idiot and people know that he'll. go out and publish whatever it is they want Dave to publish because that's what useful idiots do. That's the only reason they're important to anybody. There's nobody giving Dave inside information that really matters unless, of course, they're doing it to mislead him. Well, my God says there's somebody pretty high up in that bloodline story that talks to Dave Meltzer on a somewhat regular basis or at least did at one point.

But we can we can dive into that as well. we get into the Sammy discussion later on here in this episode of Strictly Business on the AW front, a million plus viewers for this. Do you think that might have had some tie in with the huge announcement promotion that was given prior to this episode potentially? I hope not. I hope that's not the case. I hope that people tuned in because they're really getting more interested in the pay-per-view this coming up March 5th. What's the name of that pay-per-view, by the way? Revolution. Revolution. So I'm hoping. that as you get closer to a pay-per-view,

you're building more interest in the product. It would be unfortunate if that 20-some-odd percent increase is due to the fact that people were tuning into an anticipation of this important announcement, because if that was the case, those, that same 20 percent are going to leave and they won't be back next week. Well, and there was also the report that we're going to be seeing forbidden door to this year as well. Spectrum cable has it listed for the end of June, I believe. So that was one of their most successful pay-per-views to date. So I assume that we'll be seeing that again with more

cross-collaboration with New Japan Pro Wrestling. And now New Japan has lifted a lot of those crowd rules. So hopefully we can heat up that product and see what will come from the end of that. Again, guys, if you've got some comments, drop them in the chat. We'll be sure to read some as we go on throughout the course of this episode. Real quick here, I just want to get this out of the way because we did get a super chat from West Britannicus. He said, happy Thursday, Uncle Eric. You were sent home in the fall of 1999 just before Halloween Havoc.

What was your main event plan for Starcade 99? I'm sorry, man. I couldn't tell you. My God. That would be like me asking West Britannicus, you know, what he had for dinner on September 10th, 1999. I just couldn't tell you. That's okay.

Well, like I said, guys, we want to make sure, if you are commenting, we appreciate all your comments, but strictly business for those of you who might be tuning in for the first time, we really try to stick to the business of the business on this podcast and talk about something, sometimes in the periphery of the business or that involve periphery characters of the business. And one of those things, Eric, that we did see this past week, was the relaunch 3.0 of the XFL. Third time, we've given this a shot. time with Dwayne Johnson, The Rock, leading the way on this. I watched several of the games.

I thought the games were actually pretty entertaining, and there were some very innovative television concepts involved. But unfortunately, not great news for viewership here. The first four XFL telecast windows declined at least 50% in viewership from the equivalent windows of the previous XFL launch three years ago. The inaugural game, this according to Sports Media Watch, was it averaged 1.54 million viewers down 54% from the inaugural game on the same network just three years ago. So not super encouraging numbers out of the gate there, Eric, but you know

Dwayne Johnson, at least on a professional level. This guy doesn't take on a lot of projects if he's not ready to go all in on it. Do you have any impression seeing those numbers there for the first time? No, other than I think You know, comparing a number today to a number three years ago is a little bit difficult. I mean, it's interesting. It's a data point. I don't know that you can put a lot of stock into that, number one. Number two, it brings to my mind the question of how much promotion did the XFL Lodge get?

I think, and again, I don't remember. So I'm not making a statement, I'm asking a question, how much. promotion did WWE give XFL and the networks with it three years ago compared to what it received, what Dwayne

and company received on this premiere. I'd be looking closely at that. Obviously, the synergy between WWE and Vince McMahon's version of the XFL was probably a little bit different than what we have now, but I don't know. But that would be the, that's

something that I would want to analyze if I was working on Dwayne's team is, you know, what did we get for promotion? Was it significantly less? Was it equal to? Was it more? That's an important part of the equation. I look at also, if we're trying to draw a parallel here to wrestling, I somewhat look at it is what is the appetite for more football content? Similarly, with wrestling, there's so much pro wrestling content out there.

What is the appetite to consume more and more? Tony Con purchases Ring of Honor, and he's relaunching it, and they're literally having TV tapings this coming week, and they're going to be launching it to Air on Honor Club, is the appetite there for more than that? And I worry when I see something like this for football, which is an institution in the United States, on the heels, nonetheless, of the NFL season wrapping up,

maybe this is an indication that the appetite might not be there as much as some people thought there were. You know, I thought it's interesting to bring that up, John, And look, you're way more tied in to the world of sports than I am. I'm a very, very passive sports fan. I get into the NFL towards the end of the season. You know, I'll get into baseball towards the end of the season. Same with basketball.

I'll watch the playoffs. But I've always, even early on when the XFL was first announced, very first time, I couldn't see it. Because I think culturally, we've been conditioned, for the most part, to look at fall as football. Winter, spring, basketball, late spring throughout the summer, baseball, and then we start over again. And, of course, you've got hockey in there as well and other sports. But we're kind of a seasonal sports culture here. And I always, from day one, I thought, man, is there really an appetite, to your point, for more football after the tremendous buildup, the promotion, just the event, the cultural phenomenon that the NFL has become and the Super Bowl has become, is there really that much of an audience for more football?

Or have people moved on? I don't know the answer to that. I know for me, but again, I'm not the audience. I'm not a hardcore football fan. I don't, you know, play fantasy football and all that other stuff. And maybe there's enough of those people out there to support it. But I think for the most part, culturally, we're just, we've moved on from football. You know, we're giving ourselves a break now for football.

We'll start getting excited about football again come summertime, maybe, you know, draft season or whatever. But for the most part, we're not going to really, most people aren't going to really engage. or have any interest in football until it's, you know, even preseason is kind of, eh. But once the season starts, everybody's in. So we'll see. Do you think fatigue is something that sets in for a lot of people when there's just too much of one thing? Because I want to draw a correlation of wrestling here. There's wrestling on TV every single night of the week now.

I think fatigue can be it. You know, the one advantage that wrestling has that sports doesn't is, they have control over the drama. You know, you have natural drama in sports. You've got trades. You've got draft season. You've got, you know, unfortunately, or fortunately, depending on the case. You've got news.

You've got personality issues. You've got a lot of things that you can talk about that are related to any specific sport that are considered drama or backstory. But with wrestling, you have the ability, Much like episodic television, if you're good at it, you have the ability to keep that audience engaged 52 weeks a year. You know, football is still a legitimate sport. It is not a legitimate drama. Doesn't mean there's not some drama in it.

Of course there is. It involves human beings, so therefore there's going to be drama involved. But for the most part, you know, traditional sport doesn't have that advantage. Now, the advantage that traditional sport have that wrestling doesn't is people bet on it. You know, I think the growth of sports betting in the United States has done nothing but increased interest in those products. And it's been a good thing in terms of keeping the audience engaged in getting that hardcore, you know, sports fans,

something even more to talk about at a bar, over dinner, or if you're engaged in, you know, some of the sites like Draft Kings or Fandu or the multitude of others that are out there. But wrestling, you know, you have the ability to tell stories first and foremost and provide great action. So I think that's a distinct advantage for wrestling and why oversaturation doesn't affect professional wrestling as long as it's episodic and compelling and keeps people coming back each and every one. I want to pose a hypothetical to you before we wrap this. And I'm not sure if you've ever been asked this before.

If you had gone over to WWE, say, in 2001 to work for Vince McMahon, as he's launching the XFL for the first time. And he says to Eric, I don't want to be, I don't want you to be involved with wrestling right now. I'm launching this football league. And we're going to try to be real innovators and presentation and television presentations. and I want you to be a part of the big team that's heading this effort. Is that a challenge you would have been up for? Probably because that would create unique opportunities to try something new and different.

You know, one of the things that Vince McMahon and the XFL did early on that we still see today, right, even in the NFL, is some of the unique camera angles, you know, that never existed before the XFL, much like there were many things that didn't exist. before Nitro that currently exists to this day as a result of Nitro. Same could be said for early XFL and some of the very cool camera angles and experimentation in the way the game was covered. That was a fun opportunity for whoever was involved in it, I'm sure. Likewise, I think my first thought, you know, even as you started that question and I could kind of tell where it was going was what would I have done?

I would have gotten to know those players because I surely, nobody cares about the team. nobody knows anything about them in order to care for them. They're just names. There's sports names. There's no loyalty in the local market. There's no history. There's no backstory. There's no rivalries.

There's none of the things that traditionally makes sports work, right? But there is an opportunity to get to know the players. There is an opportunity, much like you see on, and this is going to be a bad example, but it'll give people a chance to pick this apart. But I'm going to go back to the voice. It's a, you know, there's some phenomenal talent on that show. But the reason people get invested in some of that great talent is because of the backstory and because of the profiles and because NBC does such a phenomenal job

of making you root for people you've never heard of before. And that would have been a great opportunity that, or that would have been an opportunity that I would have dove, you know, headfirst into. But we got cheerleader vignettes instead of character vignettes. But, hey, that was... By the way, West Britannica said that in September 1990, he ate at Pasta Mania. And just for the record, this is the last super chat that we're going to do on this show. It was never in my intent to do super chats on strictly business.

So West Britannica, you got the last one. There you go. There you go. I challenge you. Check out the XFL at some point, because they are doing some new innovative concepts that I think are going to stick around from a TV broadcast presentation they are they have a live camera in the officiating room where any replay is deciding how a call is going to go and they have the rules official miced up the entire time so you

that's cool you hear the thought process as to why a play is upheld or why it's being overturned it's transparency that you don't get from the NFL you don't get it from anyone so I bet you that's a concept that sticks around and stays, and the NFL will pick that. And I think especially since it's just, and again, I'm not a hardcore, you know, NFL fan or any sports fan, to be honest, but when I do watch, there's my cough button, hold on. Sorry about that. When I do watch, you know, even in the Super Bowl, just those penalties and, and, and, and they're controversial, right?

And in the NFL, it's kind of like behind the curtain. You don't really, you get to see everybody talking about stuff, but, you know, they're under the, they're under the hood of the camera. And you don't really get to hear those conversations, but there's such an important part of the game. Huge part. And can sometimes affect the outcome of the game, even the Super Bowl.

So it's, I think that's a really great innovation. Yeah, Dwayne, Dwayne's got a good idea what he's doing. Check that out if you haven't already. Let's go to story number three. here, Eric, and again, a reminder, guys, if you're enjoying this, make sure you're subscribed, 83 weeks.com, ad-freeshows.com, 83 weeks right here on YouTube, you're going to get Strictly Business every single week. Story number three, probably the biggest story we've been covering here on Strictly Business is the potential sale of WWE. And this past week, it was

reported by Fortune that Vince McMahon is looking to get as much as $9 billion in a potential sale. and interestingly enough in this article they mentioned that one of the top names at the list of potential buyers was your dark horse pick from way back in the beginning of Eric Bischoff, which was Endeavor. And they mentioned that Endeavor would have to get into bed with somebody else, some other investors,

in order to make something like that happened for a potential $9 billion purchase. They also mention investors from the Middle East like Saudi Arabia. what do you think of this $9 billion potential evaluation here from Vince McMahon on WWE great marketing great marketing you know I'm not in the merger and acquisition business so my opinion means absolutely nothing it's just an opinion but again like I said about press releases and anything that you hear you read or ends up

But a press release, I guess that falls into the category of reading, is at this point, nothing more than managing expectations and marketing. So I really don't have any comment beyond that. It sounds like in recent weeks there's been a lot of tempered expectations with Comcast and Disney we know is doing a ton of cost cutting. They're trying to cut billions right now, which does take some names potentially out of the running here of a potential purchase. Do you see that market closing up at all?

is this just all hearsay and chatter until we get something definitive? I think it's all here. It's it's all Shakespeare. Everything you're reading and hearing is Shakespeare. There could be somebody that comes out of the woodwork that none of us expected. Or it could be an obvious choice. I'm sticking to my guns. I still believe, as I stated when I early on, called it a dark course pick of endeavor.

But I still like Endeavor, and I still think that Vince McMahon's goal, ultimately, would be to take the company private. And doing so with Endeavor kind of mitigates the need to raise that $9 billion, doesn't it? Because $9 billion assumes that you're buying out all the stock, including Vince McMahon's. And you could get a lot closer to a more realistic number if Vince McMahon is part of the equation. and I think a Vince McMahon endeavor combination, and maybe there'll be a third party, third party venture capitalist in there or independent or private equity come into play.

That could be. But I still, I'm sticking to my guns on Endeavor and Vince McMahon, one way, shape, or form. There was an interview with Nick Con recently, I want to say it was about a week and a half ago, where he really was sure to stress that it's very possible that a deal doesn't even happen in the first place. And that while they explore,

all these potential options that people do have to understand that a very possible outcome is that a sale never actually goes down. Now that you've kind of seen this thing play out a little bit for a couple months now, does your gut still lean more towards there being a sale in the first place rather than they're not being one? Well, again, I'm sticking to my guns on Vince taking it private in one way to perform. I don't know what the combination of players will be to make that happen, but I don't consider that a sale. Maybe it is, technically. I don't know.

I'm not in the merger and acquisition business. Sure. But that's where I see it going. I still, while a flat out sale where somebody else, excuse me, where somebody else, some other entity, some other conglomerate, some other combination of private equity owns 100% of WWE and Vince McMahon is just left with nothing other than a, you know, several billion dollars. I just don't see that happening.

I still don't. Yetty Master asked if Endeavor is already losing money on UFC, why would they have the need or desire to invest more into WWE as well? First of all, I don't know that Endeavor is losing money on UFC. This is the first time I've heard that. Now, it doesn't mean it's not true, by the way, because I don't follow it. I'm not tracking that type of thing. The only thing I know about UFC is I enjoy watching it.

And I'm amazed at what Dana White and company have done with that franchise. It's a true American media success story and sports success story. But beyond that, I'm not tracking it. So let's just assume that Endeavor is losing money. I still find that hard to believe. But let's assume it's true, taking a face value. Even more of a reason, isn't it? And the reason I feel so strongly about endeavor and have from the beginning is because of the parallels in the business units, the business models.

You know, it's television, television rights. It's live event, promotion, and production. It's licensing and merchandising. How well is UFC doing in licensing and merchandising? I mean that as a question, because I don't know. My guess is probably not nearly as well as WWE. WWE is very sophisticated and very mature in certain business units that are very parallel to the UFC where that, oh, God, I hate the term synergy because it's just, talk about a term that's like overused and abused. Synergy is like at the top of my list.

But there is some really interesting synergistic opportunities between WWE and UFC. And that may be a reason. If I'm looking at those two business models and I'm looking at the individual units within the models and I'm looking at what's performing and what's not, hey, if I make this acquisition, not only is this company I'm thinking about acquiring or investing in hugely successful from a financial point of view in a way if you believe that UFC isn't making money or endeavor isn't, this is a great way to shore that up and build, help build and prop up some of those areas of the UFC business model that perhaps are underperforming. I think if anything, it makes it even more compelling.

Producer Steve noted to us in quarter three of last year and never posted $1.2 billion in revenue that's still experienced an overall net loss of $12.5 million due to exchange rate headwins. Hmm. Sounds like accounting to me, but okay. Counting can be very misleading, brother. Sure. Yeah, yeah. Yeah, we'll leave it go at that. Let's create some synergy here from Metagamers.

He says, what about Dwayne Johnson? In all his business ventures, maybe he could be a key investor in WWA. You never know. I mean, I don't know how much money Dwayne has, but at $20 million a film or whatever he's making. I'm sure he's stacked a couple nickels here in the last, you know, seven or eight or ten years. So who knows? And it's not only that.

It's not how much money Dwayne has or doesn't have, even if he had all of the money that he needed individually. What does Dwayne bring to the table? You know, what's the strategic value of a potential partner like Dwayne Johnson? Probably goes well beyond the financial opportunity that comes with him. And certainly if Dwayne was a part of a new, ownership package that would take the company private, perhaps along with Endeavor. Duane brings a lot of, a lot of value beyond an initial investment. 100% agree with that.

Wes, who's been super, super active in the chat here, says, any thoughts on MLW's new TV deal on Reels? It seems like they have a once-in-a-generation opportunity to really break out of the pack and distinguish themselves as a viable brand. I don't know how on the pulse of this you are here, Eric, but, you know, Reels, not a name that you typically hear too much about in terms of getting into the acquisition business with properties like MLW or pro wrestling, for that matter. Don't know enough about it to comment. I don't like commenting on things I know nothing about. Yeah.

I mean, I can speak from my understanding of MLW. I don't think MLW is anywhere. close to being a major player in pro wrestling right now it's a well-produced product with good talent but it's still pretty low on the pecking order so i wouldn't expect it to really be much of a game changer at the end of the day here in what we see in the wrestling stratosphere but thank you for the question about that eric there was actually something that you sent my way that you wanted to discuss and that was about what we are seeing with a attendance in WW and AEW specifically here that Russellnomics has been tracking.

And essentially it's that WW attendance has been up and AEW attendance has been down in terms of comparisons for the year so far. Your initial reactions to that as we begin to pull up some of the numbers here and have a further discussion. Yeah, it's an interesting thing to track. I admit that I like that kind of data. and I think Russellnomics does a great job tracking that data and presenting it for the most part

except for when it comes to ratings and make that way more complicated than it needs to be. But here's the disadvantage that WWE has. They've been touring forever.

WWE coming to your town is not news. It's not the first time. It's not even the second time. It may be the 22nd second time in the last 30 years. And that's a disadvantage. You know, every time you go into a market, you've got to leave that audience going,

wow, I can't wait to come back. Or at the very least, wow, I'm really glad I came. It gets harder and harder to do the more often you visit. Now, let me give you an example. Stevie Nix. You know, I'm seriously contemplating, jumping on a plane, flying somewhere to see Stevie Nix in concert. Now, I've seen Stevie Nix before.

I don't get to see her very often. And she's one of those, in my mind, legends, musicians that, you know, I think is 20 years from now, 40 years from now, we're going to look back and go, wow, she was even better than we thought she was. But if Stevie Nix came to Cody, you know, four times a year, I'd probably go once. I may even go twice. That'd be about it. Better done that.

So it's harder for WWE, in my opinion, to continue to grow their live event business unless they do something very unique. Or they've got an exceptionally hot product. Conversely, AEW is, they're in the honeymoon stage when it comes to live events. because AEW coming to your hometown for the very first time. This is a new thing.

You've not had a chance to experience it before in person. You've been watching it on television. Now you get to be a part of the show. And that's another big thing. And it's not exclusive, I think, to the professional wrestling category. You know, a lot of fans show up and want to, you know, be a part of the audience. I guess it's a little more difficult when there's 20,000 of them there because you don't get a shot to me. It's why they have Kiss Camp.

and all that stuff, right? And I think with wrestling, it's a little bit different because wrestling is so much a part of the show. They are the, they are the, let's see, one, two, three, in a regular match where you've got two combatants and a referee, they're the fourth person in the ring. They're the fourth character on the show, is the audience. And people want, it's like being in a party.

And there's a really good chance. If you get your seats early, going to be a part of that show and you're going to be on camera people love that and a good and a good producer will exploit the hell out of that and spend as much time on on crowd shots as possible partly to communicate to the viewing audience that these people are having fun this is a good product for you to watch you're justified sitting back and watching the show for two hours or three hours whatever it is but it also encourages people to show up and because they want to be on camera. They want to be a part of the show. Even if they're not on camera,

they get the chant, they get to carry signs in some cases. They're there. They're at the party. And I think AW has a distinct advantage in the fact that they are the new kid in town. So they're going to do better the first time they come to a market generally by the time they've been there three, four times, which I don't think has happened too often in AEW's case because they are so new. And effectively, at least as of now, they're not a touring company. They're a television company that tours occasionally. Now, I understand. I don't know what's true or not true.

I don't follow it. Tony's, you know, made the statement that he wants to expand the live event portion of his business, which I think is a smart thing to do for a lot of reasons. They are introducing how shows. And I applaud them for that. I think that's a smart move for a couple of different reasons, primarily. But the fact that AEW is down year over year when they're so new is not a good sign. It tells me that it's much like a premiere of a show.

You know, when AEW premiered, it opened up to what, 1.5 million viewers. And now if they crack a million, people are looking for bottles of champagne to pass around. You know, WWE Smackdown, you know, when I was there, Premier episode to 3.8 million viewers or 3.9, whatever the number was. Now they're hovering around that 2.2, 2.5. People came, they experienced, they made a decision, and some came back, and some didn't. I think in AEW's case, because they are so new, the fact that they're down year over year is not a good indication. By the way, I'm sure this is the real Stevie Nix that we have in here.

He says, I can't believe you wouldn't come to all my concerts in Cody, Eric. cheap skate i'm sure that was the real one uh laying down the opinions there and uh another one new attitude me it says i equated to a concert also go see the favorite band as it's a once a lifetime thing they come into town again might not go as i've already seen them and i think that speaks to the importance of having a a hot product that people are going to want to pay to see it was just a few weeks ago they announced that uh cody was being added to a few house shows and some of those shows sold out like that just because of cody being announced And that's another, you know, big advantage that wrestling has when it comes to touring is you've got, hopefully you've got a turnover and talent in key spots that even though WWE may have come to, you know, Cody Wyoming last year, but Cody wasn't on a roster last year.

This year he is. Yeah, even though I went last year and it was okay, I'm going this year because, you know, Cody's hot. That is an advantage that wrestling has over other touring forms of touring. All right, Eric, let's talk about this as our last hot topic. That's Sammy Zane, kind of been the talking point of the entire wrestling world this past week. Super, super hot crowd in Montreal for the Elimination Chamber pay-per-view. WWE did very big business for this pay-per-view. They broke their all-time gate and viewership records for Elimination Chamber.

Of course, Montreal being where Sammy Zane is from. He was in the main event against Roman Rain. Sammy Zane has been WWE's top rating straw in the last couple of months. All of that segments are popping the biggest numbers on WWE television. And instead of maybe giving it a shot and seeing what he could do as world champion, they decided to stay on the course and go with Roman Raines and Cody for WrestleMania. This has been pretty divisive amongst a lot of fans. Some fans giving them credit for sticking the path.

investing in Cody, others saying the moment's there, it was the right crowd, the right place, you should have done it. What's your take? I think they should stick to their plan. And I, you know, I'll take exception to some of the things you said early on. Sammy Zane has been the top draw. Now, the bloodline storyline has been the top draw. And everybody, not the least of which would be Roman Reyes, has been the bloodline storyline has been the top draw. I think it's It's a reflection of ignorance to pick out one person within that entourage of people that are involved in that story and assign all of that success to one individual. I get the emotion of it.

Part of me feels the same way. The emotional part of me can feel the same way for a moment or two. But the business side of me kind of breaks it down a little bit different. And beyond that, and this is kind of getting into the ether almost instead of the weeds. But if I'm Sammy Zane and somebody would have come to me an elimination chamber and says, Sammy, this crowd, these people in my, and by the way, the crowd of Montreal may not be the same crowd as Los Angeles, okay? So you can't take one night, one event, and say, this is what's true around the world, especially in Montreal, because Montreal historically has been a super hot wrestling crowd for anybody. Now take somebody from Montreal, what do you think you're going to get as far as a product on television or pay-per-view, right?

Or a premium live event, as the case may be. So I think to take that emotional knee-jerk reaction to what is really an isolated situation in terms of Montreal and say, oh, based on that reaction, he got from the crowd. And again, I will not assign the success of the ratings to any one individual, not even Roman raids, even though he's been being pushed forever and is the top draw in the industry. I'm just not going to assign the rating success to one individual. I think that's, that that is a reflection of ignorance. Well, can I push back on that real quick?

Sure. Go ahead, man. So the bloodline story has been going for going on almost three years now, all things considered. And none of those segments were doing the numbers and providing an uptick in viewership until what we saw with this Sammy Zane character arc starting to climax at, around leading up to Royal Rumble and then post-Royal Rumble. I mean, we talked about it just a couple of weeks ago. We saw those numbers go up for the Sammy Roman confrontation.

That's not me taking anything away from Roman Rains. But there is somewhat tangible evidence, in my opinion, that we saw what the control was for the bloodline, and they weren't losing numbers. They're always the strongest parts of the programming in terms of viewership consistently, segment-by-segment breakdowns. But it is tangible. But we can see once this Sammy Zane story got hot, it started going up and up and up and up.

Don't you think some of that has to do? Of course, some of it has, but it's the story that's driving it. And obviously, Sammy Zane is critical to that story. He is the reason. And the Sammy Zane story within the context of the bloodline storyline, absolutely should be pointed to as a success story. But take it to the next level. Take Sammy Zane out of the bloodline storyline. Do you think Sammy Zane would have been having that success?

Not up to this point, but I think now we have to find out will he have it afterwards. You're going to risk that? No. And here's where I was starting to, I wouldn't anyway. Here's where I was starting to go and I distracted myself. If I was Sammy Zane and somebody would have come up to me Saturday afternoon and said, okay, we were going to go and we're going to have you lose and we're going to take you in this direction. but because this Montreal crowd loves you so much,

we're going to put the title on you. We're going to let you win this. I would have said, no. I don't want that. If I'm Sammy Zane, I don't want that. The value, the money, the future, the success is in the chase. Once you get it, it's over. Now what do you do?

now you're going to get a run and eventually somebody here's your next big move you're going to get beat no damn it i would much rather be in a position of chasing that title with a great story than getting that title in a relatively short story short stories don't last and sammy's participation in the bloodline was a relatively short element of that story as you just pointed out. If I'm Sammy Zane, if I'm looking at my future, I want to be the underdog for as long as I can be the underdog. Once I'm, once I've got that title in that championship, I'm no longer the underdog. Baby faces want to be the underdog. You know, putting putting the title on a super hot baby face only works if you've got a plethora of super hot

heels to chase him. I would much, it's hard to be a baby face nowadays. It's really hard to be a good baby face, a successful baby face. I would much rather be chasing that title and having the champion

avoiding me, cheating to win, running, hiding, lying, cheating, doing whatever to stay out of my grasp. Because as long as I have the audience behind me and the audience wants me to win, like they do right now.

That's where my money is. That's where my future is. That's where the merchandise is going to be. Anything else is going to be relatively speaking short term. Just for the record, I'm in complete agreement with you. I'm all about riding Cody here. I think Cody's the guy.

That's the one you've attached the rocket to from the moment he returned at WrestleMania last year. The injury changed that path just a little bit. I'm not about, especially when Roman has, had such a historic rain 900 days i think if you were to make a significant shift in your story on short notice like that you are risking uh potentially hemorrhaging the true payoff of the story that you've had planned but i am willing to hear that argument that this was a super hot hand and maybe maybe it's something that would have been well and and john i don't i want to be sure

because sometimes i get so passionate about my opinions that um it comes off sometimes a little too strong. I completely understand why people feel the way they feel. There's a part of me that wanted Sammy to win it too. But again, from a business perspective, like I said, if I was Sammy Zane and somebody would have said, hey, what do you think? We may have you beat Roman tonight. I would have been the loudest voice in the room saying absolutely no. Give me a shot to run at that championship. Make me the most valuable player in that story for the next six months or year. Put that put, put, let me fight for that opportunity for the next 12 months because my income is going to go through the freaking roof. My merchandise could fly off the shelf

providing there's a good story behind it, obviously. And assuming what we've seen as of late, I think that's a safe assumption. And let's not, just, just a, you know, oh man, you see that reaction? Let's put it on. let's not pretend that Cody is some schlop either you know this is a guy and here's the thing I want to go back to Cody because you brought it up you know you look at you know Cody Rhodes coming back you know last rest of me are you kidding me that match with Seth Rollins everything that about it Cody was the hottest thing going at that moment now he got injured and yes that caused the change in plans it did not hurt Cody Rhodes at all in fact from a psychological point view, wrestling psychology point of view, audience management point of view. It almost makes it more interesting because now he's not only coming back as he did last WrestleMania. Now he's been faced with adversity. Coming back to WrestleMania last year was Act 1. Act 2 is he got hurt,

seriously hurt, visually. We could all see it. We could almost feel it. It was so ugly. That's adversity. That's, that's, now our baby face, the people we're cheering for, we're rooting for. We want to see our baby face reach his or her goal is now faced with an adversity that nobody saw coming, including him. That makes the story more interesting. It can. And in this case, I think it does.

They haven't exploited it. They haven't really driven that part of the story home, but it's there consciously or subconsciously. So I don't think the injury actually slowed them down. think of it this way. What if he, what if? Let's just do a what if. I got to get a drink of water. By the way, I got a severe sinus infection as a result of some allergies I got down

in Florida last week. So I apologize for packing my way through this. I do so bad for you. You've had it rough this winter. I know. I've always had it. Allergies have always been something that's gotten a hold of me. But the 80s, you know, did some damage to my sinuses.

so every once in one of those allergies have a little bit more impact. Where was I? Do you remember? I don't. You were about. Oh, we were doing a what if. Yeah, what if? What if Cody Rhodes hadn't gotten hurt?

Would we still feel the same way about Cody that we do today? Would Cody have been handled? No, this is pre-you know, Vince McMahon walking away. When did it happen in July? It happened over the summer. All right. Would creative have sufficiently built Cody Rhodes so that he was even hotter this WrestleMania than he was last

WrestleMania? Or would we have seen Cody perhaps have to stagger through some less than compelling story, which would have taken some of the polish off of him? He's got 100% of his polish that he came with last WrestleMania. And I would suggest, Your Honor, that perhaps he's even more polished now because of having to overcome adversity. And now he's come back. He's been seriously hurt, facing adversity, uphill climb.

And now he's got a personal issue to help him get to that next level of passion for his fans. I don't know. I think he's hotter now than he was last WrestleMania. But we'll see. Now, that's what makes this fun. The reason that wrestling is such a beautiful art form when it comes to entertainment, as AAA said, I don't want to rip him off in his press conference after Elimination Chamber. You know, when wrestling is done well, there is not a more entertaining form of entertainment

when it's done well. And I think it's being done so well right now that I wouldn't second. guess myself or allow anybody else to second guess me if I was in a position to continue to manage that story, especially, you know, dirt sheet writers and people like that because they're just wrestling fans like everybody else. It's about the business of the wrestling business. It's not about the emotion of the wrestling business. And emotion is a big part of it. Emotion is a big part of the story. Emotion is at the core of any form of entertainment being successful is your ability to create compelling and genuine emotion.

But so far, nothing has indicated to me that Cody Rose has lost a step. I think there's some pressure on Cody when, when Roman came out on top of the elimination chamber, one of the first things I thought about, I was by myself. One of the first things I thought about is, hmm, this could put some pressure on Cody. Sammy Zane has put some real pressure on Cody. And even though I don't know Cody well personally, I've known him since he was a little kid and we stay remotely in touch, you know, text and things like that. But I don't know him.

I don't really know him like Diamond Dallas Page does or other people do. But what I see of him, I don't think he's going to look at this. I think he's going to look at it as a challenge and I think he's going to embrace it. And I think he's going to take this pressure that Sammy Zane and the audience, is putting on him. And I think it's just going to be rocket fuel for. Dude, this is the guy that had the balls to try to take it to Vince. And that's something you know firsthand.

It takes a lot of chutzpah. And I don't think he's going to back away from a challenge. Not at all. You think you think Cody went home, you know, night after elimination you're watching it? I don't think he was even there, was he? Hold on. Thank God for cough buttons. I don't think after that was all over, Cody, you know, looked at Brandy and said, oh, yeah, I'm in trouble now.

I think it went the other way. I think it's nothing but fuel for his fire and Cody's got fire. That he does. You mentioned it's all about the business of the business. That's what strictly business is all about. Hey, before we go here, John, I know we're going to bail here shortly. We've been going for more than an hour. But let's, we've got a lot of questions here.

And I want to really support our friends and we appreciate it. So let's just go through them real quick. let's let's get uh let's get to some of these here uh jeffrey says but doesn't the exact thing happened to cody when he wins at rest of the chase is better than the win so you're saying how it's all about investing in that chase and once you get the win where do you go he's saying couldn't that happen with cody too i'm not sure i understand help me so you you were saying that with sammy the investment is in the chase and then once you win the title then what where does sammy go from there so he's saying couldn't that same exact premise

apply to Cody. Yes, it could. It very well could. It very well could. And it all depends on the story. Just like, look, if things would have been different and somebody would have made the decision to have Sammy come out on top at Elimination Chamber and have Sammy come out top at WrestleMania, the same thing would be true because they're both baby faces. They're both vulnerable to that same wrestling psychology dynamic that has historically told us that baby faces chasing for the title is where the money is historically there's been exceptions don't get me wrong i'm well aware of it all of you wrestling historians out there but a generally speaking um it's the baby face chasing the title that's where the money is but yes it could be and this is where

creative matters you know what do they do once they put cody there what do they do with them it's going to be an interesting story but look there's some high hot heels now. I don't, I don't want a fantasy book. I just don't want to look beyond WrestleMania for my own entertainment purposes. I want to enjoy this moment or these moments that lead up to it. But it, no doubt, man, there's going to be pressure on Cody and pressure on WWE creative. I just want to say too, like, WWE having two white hot heel, uh, white hot baby faces and Sammy Zane and Cody, that is a damn good problem to have. Oh, give me that problem all day long, brother.

Please make my life miserable that way. Make me sweat rocks at night. Make me bang my head on hard, sharp objects. Some of them rusty because I've got this problem and I can't figure it out. Yeah, give me that all day long. Very few companies have one hot baby face, let alone two. So that is a good problem. And this is a really good point here too from the landlord harassment channel.

Do you think Jay Uso has main event potential? I think Eric J. Uso has been one of the secret songs. to this story and just how good he's been and with his actions and his facials and that really intriguing element of where does the bloodline story go conran thompson i were just talking about this this morning because we're basically touched on the same subject j us so and this conrad pointed this out to me you know whenever there was conversation about j uso it was oh yeah he's rikishi's you know relative and got a bunch of DUIs and he was just dismissed. Yeah, he's there. Yeah, okay. But yeah. Now, look at him.

And it's another reason why I think it's so hard to point to one person in this bloodline storyline as the reason, because I think Jay Uso has a lot to do with it as well. That's been an important piece of fabric or thread within that fabric of that storyline is the Jay Uso story. If you would have asked me that question six months ago, I would have kind of looked at you like a confused puppy. But now I think absolutely not yet. I wouldn't do it now. Let the audience wanted for him. Let him grow. You know, he's like Sammy in many respects. Jay Uzo has emerged almost as a different person, a different character. It's the same character. He's the same person, but he doesn't feel like the same character or the same person. He's finding it. Oh, God,

This is going to sound so cornball. Please, excuse me. But he's flying his wings, man. He's like that bird, you know, like an eagle in the nest, you know, wants to get out and fly, but he just keep flopping around until one day it flaps around and it falls out of the nest and all of a sudden goes, ooh, this is fun stuff. And next thing you know, that thing's cruising around about 3,000 feet, picking, you know, rodents up off the ground at 300 miles an hour, you know, give them some time.

But again, you're making my point, you know, with that question. Yeah, Jay Huso, I think, can be, probably will be at some point, the guy at the very top of the roster, but not yet. That whole bloodline story began with J. Uso, too. There you go. Another reason why Dave Meltzer has his head up his ass. Just another reason why. Amir asked, Eric, what do you think about the idea of having two matches, Roman versus Cody for one belt and Roman versus Sammy for the other.

I personally, I hate this idea. I've seen this has been very popular among the chatter of one match, one night, one match for the other. I don't know, man. I don't know about beating Roman twice in a row like that and splitting the belts. How do you feel? There's a better way to do it. I don't know what it is off top of my head.

But I understand why. I understand why people would go to that because in a sense, it's kind of logical. You know, you got two different belts. You've got two different baby faces, one heel. On some kind of paper, not the paper you would find in a writer's room, but on some kind of paper, that kind of makes sense on paper. But from the business perspective, in a wrestling psychology perspective,

whew, that had a bad move. Yeah, I agree with you. And let's get this last question from David Kelly, who was there right at the start of this broadcast. How do you end the bloodline story to benefit all the guys moving forward? say that again please how do you end the bloodline story to benefit all guys moving forward oh i don't know i couldn't sit here and figure it out just talking to you but you got a whole bunch of people that are over you've got a ton of backstory there's so much opportunity as a result of the bloodline

story that i would imagine if you sit three or four experienced talented people in a room you could probably come out of that room within six or eight hours with three really good ideas. Here's the one thing that I'll say about that. And I think you'll appreciate this because you love good full circle storytelling. The bloodline story started with Roman on his own and he acquired all these

people throughout the course of process. Jay Uso and Jimmy Uso and Solosikoa and Sammy Zane, Paul Heyman. I think this story has to end where Roman has lost all his family. He gaslit them the entire way to use

them for his advantage. And whenever this story ends, I think it has to end with his family not being there for Roman because he has pushed them away and lost them all. You are muted. Sorry, I defeated my microphone. Yeah, Roman walks out of that story. He's lost his family. He's lost everything around him. He packs up his bags.

He walks out of that arena like, a man who has lost his soul as he's walking out of the arena for what people think is the last time he looks over the shoulder the camera catches just a glimpse of a tear in his eye because he realizes

for the first time he fucked up and he goes away and makes a movie maybe too and realizes boy did I mess up I have to atone for my son

Yep. I have to come back and I have to do right by the very people that I wronged. And then it's an uphill battle for the next 12 months. You see, gradually, very gradually, painfully to himself, wins back the hearts and minds of the very people that he betrayed. Wow. And then you got mega baby face, Roman Reins. There you go. this stuff isn't hard anybody can do it up and i'm ready to do this let's make some calls we'll

be booking tv every wednesday night oh no no no i wouldn't want to be anywhere that shit you try to sneak that in there beside you hey this is great stuff eric appreciate you tune in to strictly business every single week guys 83 weeks dot com ad free shows dot com subscribe give us that five stars tell everyone that you love eric bischoff and strictly business anything else you want to add my friend well they can love you too john elba There's two of us here, brother. We're good. Share the love all the way around.

Come on. Thanks, John. I appreciate it. We'll see you next week. See you next week, guys, right here on Strictly Business.