83 Weeks with Eric Bischoff - Strictly Business with Eric Bischoff #23: Richard Deitsch on WWE TV Rights, Nick Khan, and More

Episode Date: April 21, 2023

In this edition of "Strictly Business," Eric Bischoff and Jon Alba welcome in The Athletic's media reporter Richard Deitsch! Richard discusses pro wrestling's space in the sports media landscape, WWE's upcoming TV rights deal, Nick Khan's presence in the industry, and more! Special thanks to this week's sponsors! Manscaped- Get 20% Off and Free Shipping with the code WRESTLEBIZ at Manscaped.com. Empiraa- Sign up now and receive free onboarding, your first 14 days for free, and 24/7 support. Get ahead of the game and save 20% on your subscription by using the code 'wrestlebiz' at checkout. Launch your business plan faster and with less effort than ever before. Visit www.empiraa.com/eric today and start your journey to success! Factor- Head to FACTORMEALS.com/WRESTLEBIZ50 and use code WRESTLEBIZ50 to get 50% off your first box Fite+- Fite+ is the ultimate digital platform for live sports and entertainment, and they are now offering a free 7-day trial at TryFite.com FOLLOW ALL OF OUR SOCIAL MEDIA at https://83weekslinks.com/ Stop throwing your money on rent! Get into a house with NO MONEY DOWN and roughly the same monthly payment at SaveWithConrad.com On AdFreeShows.com, you get early, ad-free access to more than a dozen of your favorite wrestling podcasts, starting at just $9! And now, you can enjoy the first week...completely FREE! Sign up for a free trial - and get a taste of what Ad Free Shows is all about. Start your free trial today at AdFreeShows.com If your business targets 25-54 year old men, there's no better place to advertise than right here with us on Strictly Business. You've heard us do ads for some of the same companies for years...why? Because it works! And with our super targeted audience, there's very little waste. Go to AdvertiseWithEric.com now and find out more about advertising with Strictly Business. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

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And you don't need perfect credit or money out of your pocket to do this, but check this out. No house payments for two months. It's savewithconrad.com. What's going on, everyone, it's time for another edition of Strictly Business with Eric Fischaw, presented to you by the podcast, Heat Network at free shows, and of course our friends over at him here. who we're going to tell you a little bit about in just a bit here on Strictly Business. This is going to be a great episode for those of you who have been interested in the ever-changing landscape of professional wrestling and media rights.

We have a really fantastic guest for you coming up today before we can bring him in. I got to bring in my main man first. Mr. Eric Bischoff, EZ, on location this week. How you doing? I'm doing great. I'm in a beautiful downtown Cave Creek, Arizona. Mrs. B and I used to live here in Cape Creek for almost 20 years and decided to downsize and move up to Wyoming. So we're down here visiting some friends and hanging out and sucking up some 80 degree sunshine.

It's just freaking awesome. Beautiful backdrop you got there. It looks absolutely awesome. This is going to be an awesome episode. We got Richard Deich from the Athletic coming on to talk about pro wrestling and where it fits in the sports media landscape coming out of this WWE sale. what can people look forward to with this conversation you know i don't know this is the first time i've sat down and talked to richard i've listened to him certainly and man is very knowledgeable about media and media rights and since that's really been the topic du jour for the last several months i'm really

looking forward to getting an education and that's what this show is all about we want you to walk away after listening to this podcast knowing a little bit more about the business of the wrestling business than you did when you first turned it on. So I think we're going to get there today. I think we are. But before we can get there, we got a big major announcement. So if you got the drum roll out there, wait for this. Look at this. There it is. Ready? Podcast at the plate. We're bringing 83 weeks in strictly business to our friends with the Fresno Grizzlies for pro wrestling night, April 30th. They got a day game. And then right after that, you're going to be able to to catch a live show with Eric Fischoff and myself.

If you sign up for this pro wrestling night, VIP tickets available as well. We're going to be sitting on top of the dugout as far as I understand it, Eric. You know, I love baseball. You're going to be thrown out the first pitch. How excited are you for this? I'm really excited.

I'm going to start working on my pitch. I don't want to go out there and, you know, look like Dr. Fauci or some other clown that, you know, misses the plate by a mile and a half. I want to look somewhat respectable. So I'm going to find myself a pitching coach and see if I can tune up the old right arm. Are you going to throw from the mound, do you think? Sure.

Why not? Okay. Wait a minute. No, wait a minute. I did this once before. Because, you know, when you're not used to it, you go, oh, I can stand out the mound. I can make the plate. And then you go out to the mound and it's like, wait a minute.

Wait a minute. That's four miles from here. It looks different on the plate. Yes. That 60 feet certainly can be a little. intimidating in person. I'm so excited to do this with you, man. We're going to be talking about some WCW stories. We'll talk about some of the current strictly business. You'll get a chance to meet a lot of the wrestling fans and baseball fans out there with the Fresno Grizzlies. So make sure you

head on over to the Fresno Grizzlies website, MILB.com. Search for the Fresno Grizzlies. They got all the information there. It's going to be an exceptional event. I'm excited to get out there with you. And I'm really excited for our episode that we have here coming up with Richard Dight. So, Eric, I say, let's not waste any more time. Let's get into it. Well, Eric, I believe it's now time to bring in our very special guest. He is a media reporter with The Athletic. He's got decades of experience in the industry, including time with Sports Illustrated, where he's covered just about everything.

And on top of that, he's a big wrestling fan as well, which makes him a perfect fit for Strictly Business with Eric Bischoff. Let's welcome in Richard Deich. Richard, how are you, my friend? Good. I'm going to make my promise to Eric that I'm going to try to avoid the word synergy too much. I'll try to avoid flywheel. I know he loves the beast speak cliches. But in all seriousness, John, you know this.

I'm a listener. 83 weeks is in my feed. It's been in my feed for a long time. And I was psyched when Strictly Business started being part of that feed just because it makes it much easier for me as a consumer just to listen to it. And it wasn't something I had consumed prior to it being in my feed. So I'm happy for you guys and delighted to be here. thanks richard we have we have fun doing this show you know it's a different take on the wrestling industry we're not talking about stories or angles or talent really too much it's all about you know

the nuts and bolts the business of the wrestling business and i think you know people wrestling fans in particular man they're they're interested in what they see on tv but they're even more interested in the things they don't see on tv so we're hopefully gonna scratch that itch a little bit here yeah The one thing, John, one thing I'll say, and I think Eric can appreciate this, even if he's not the biggest sports fan. At the Athletic and at Sports Illustrated, we find that sports fans are really interested in, like, sports rights conversations. Like, where am I going to watch the NBA next year? Where, what entities are going to sign the National Football League?

Over the, you know, the course of my last year and a half, I wrote so much about where the NFL rights were going, you know, between CBS, NBC, ESPN, Amazon, et cetera. So there's a lot of parallels for wrestling fans because, you know, outside, just think of it as sports. Outside of me being interested in like, oh, how good are the bills this year or how good of the chiefs this year, there's a whole other element to like, how am I consuming this product? How is this product being distributed to me? And that's why I figured you would be perfect for this, because right now there's so much discourse going around about the future of pro wrestling television, specifically WWE, but AWE is certainly going to be part of that conversation as well kind of somewhat of a domino effect and i feel like you can provide us

some good perspective on what the appetite is in the sports media landscape and we'll talk about that ill-fated question that we brought up multiple times on this podcast where does pro wrestling fall within the sports realm and eric has some strong opinions on that which should be a great conversation but before we get into any of that i'd love some background on you for some listeners who may not be all that familiar uh where have you been i i talked about some of the places before but what exactly is the role of a sports media reporter? Yeah, that and $2.50. I'll get you on the New York City subway. Well, you know, there's really nothing worse than when a guest comes into like a college lecture and starts droning about their resume.

So I'll try to do this as quick as possible. Generally speaking, I fell into writing sports media. My dream was to work in Sports Illustrated, which I was really fortunate enough to do at a very, very young, age. I covered the Olympics. I covered women's basketball. I covered tennis, some other stuff. And then I really fell into it. The media landscape was becoming more interesting to Sports Illustrated. And so I started writing a little bit about it for the magazine. And then the web happened. And what we found, along with all the other blogs that sort of discovered this, was that there was a demand for media writing

and a demand for writing about the people who you see on television. And a very easy example I always use is you probably can't name who the fourth starting pitcher is on the Seattle Mariners, but you absolutely know who Al Michaels is. You absolutely know who Joe Buck are. And so I started writing much more

when Sports Illustrated got into the web very heavily with SI.com. And it's been something I've done now primarily since maybe around 2010, 2011. It's been a pretty long sports media run, but I really fell into it. It certainly was not something I had imagined that I'd be doing in this business. My dream, like many others, was just to sort of be a traditional sports writer. I grew up. My mom got me a subscription to Sports Illustrated, and when I was like eight or nine, that was my dream. Like basically, I'm very, very fortunate that I actually ended up at the place

I dreamed of working at, which is almost inconceivable to think about. And, you know, they took me to seven Olympics. They took me to, you know, 15 women's final fours. They took me to NBA championships. I mean, you know, if the career ended today, honestly, I feel like I caught a lottery ticket and I would have no complaints. So that's a short answer. I'm a New Yorker, generally speaking, born and bread.

And now I live in Toronto, Ontario, which is a longer story. I came up here for a job, a second job, I should say. And we just fell in love with the city. I know Eric's been here a lot. It's like a very cosmopolitan, great city. A lot of people like to joke, it's like a cleaner version of New York, or the other joke is it's New York City run by the Swiss. Pick your joke for Toronto, that's a...

No, but either one of them work, and it's why it's a great city. It has all the benefits of a city like New York. Great restaurants. Absolutely great restaurants. Very much of an international city, which is... I like that. You know, when I go to a city, I like to try different kind of foods

and cultures and things like that. I remember I listened to a podcast series once. I think it was with Conrad, and I remember you saying that one of the things you'd love to do when you would go to a city, probably you were working for Turner at the time. You would just pop in like local bars or local restaurants get a flavor of the city,

which is really interesting because, you know, a lot of journalism professors or journalists will tell you That is a great way to learn about a city beyond just, you know, talking to somebody famous in that city. Yeah. And it's like when you, when you do find a locally owned or, you know, say mom pop restaurant, but a locally owned, not a franchise place, you know, like Ruth Chris Steakhouse, yeah, they're great. There's, you know, McCormick, there's great steakhers. But there's something about finding a local restaurant that's been in the community for a long,

time that's possibly been in the same family for a generation or two. Yeah, you just get a different vibe and you do get to know the city differently because people are more than willing to chat and share things. So I do enjoy that, especially when I go overseas. I would love to know, Eric, when you were running Turner, or WCW at Turner, I should say, not running Turner. what how helpful or intriguing for you would it have been if the sports media beat had been a thing at that point in time would that have been beneficial for you oh of course it's what we were striving for it's one of the reasons why i did deals with carl malone and dennis rodman and steed mcichael and kevin green and oh you name it you know shekeel o'neal um i did those mohammeda lee george foreman all right All of those deals were done, really to kind of get the attention and to get free publicity.

You know, get the sports writers, get the morning drive, you know, radio hosts that typically cover sports in the major FM markets, get them talking about what we're doing. And, yeah, the more you can get them to talk, the more free media you get, the better off you are. John, I'll give you something, I'll give Eric, just some interesting insight into that question. When I was at Sports Illustrated, and I'm talking about the time when Sports Illustrated was like a major player in sports media where like being on the cover, like created conversation, like Eric said, like that was millions of dollars worth of free media. But one thing that was always interesting to me, and I'll use the WWE slash F as the example, because it was much more prominent with them than WCW. they would really go out of their way to give us whatever access we wanted. I mean, over the top access, and they treated us very, very differently than they treated the wrestling press because exactly what Eric said, they were trying to court the quote

unquote traditional mainstream press because it got them an entirely different audience that they would not necessarily get from the wrestling press. So even in, you know, my dopey situation, like whenever I would call WWEPR, I mean, it was unbelievable, like how fast my calls got back. It was unbelievable how much they were offering me in terms of what I wanted, very different than if I called the Lakers or if I called like the Patriots. I mean, they in some ways we were, I mean, it's a little cliche here. We almost were given rock star status in some ways by the PR department because they really were courting us. And I always found that interesting. And even to this day, same with AEW and WWE.

They will always give, whether it's my podcast or just something that the athletic wants, let's say, they go out of their way to give us access to their superstars, I think much faster and more rapid than they do with the traditional wrestling press. Because that kind of thought process still exists that, like, there is significant value in the, mainstream media for them. And I've seen that now through multiple PR staffs and multiple wrestling organizations. And that was always interesting to me because I would compare it to how the traditional pro sports teams, let's say, would treat us. And again, they're not treating us bad.

But you could tell the, you know, it's like being at a fine restaurant, the level of service was here with the WWA. And it's still to this day that's always been interesting to me. Yeah, I think in sports, you were probably regarded and are regarded to this day by traditional sports teams as a necessary evil. I agree. Whereas in WW or AEW, you're a luxury and an opportunity. Great point. And are treated accordingly.

Yeah. It's nice to be in first class, John, every now. I've never flown first class, so I get it. What do you think, RD, about now we see organizations like W. WW hand-feeding information for outlets to break. Like, it's not uncommon to see WWE feed a story to Sports Illustrated and say Sports Illustrated first reported this. WW will put that on their social medias. Is that a badge of honor of sorts for them now?

Well, this is interesting because you've nailed on something that they don't necessarily explicitly tell a Sports Illustrated or USAID or ESPN that we're going to put this on our Kairon. or we're going to put this on our television show. But they end up doing it. And so if you're working at an ESPN or, you know, back then for me at Sports Illustrated or, you know, whatever, Washington Post, etc., you know that you're going to get your own sort of additional free publicity by having that story. And absolutely, John, I mean, because this has happened to me. They both, I mean, AEW has offered up Tony Kahn, who I had on my podcast once many times, which I really, appreciate. There is no parallel in my other world. It's not like Robert Kraft or Jerry Jones are being pitched to me. That just doesn't happen. And then the WWE, always offering up their

major talent. And generally speaking, if you conduct an interview with a WWE performer and you do it in a journalistic manner, you're almost always going to get some kind of news. That's just the reality, I think, of asking questions that are not fan-oriented questions. And so that, I think, is absolutely, John, a public relation strategy for WWE. And I think they benefit significantly by having one of these well-known mainstream brands on their television program where it says, you know, ESPN report, I'll just make it out, ESPN reported, Roman Raines will be doing a movie with X. That's very good for the WWE because it links their audience to ESPN.

Yeah. So there's there's a mutual benefit there. Although, at least in my experience, it's not like WWA has ever promised I'll be on their airwaves, nor I don't, I mean, I think they're smart enough to know. That's not something I would particularly see as a positive. I'm not in the quid pro quo business. You know, I'm in the information business. You don't want to be on TV. Well, it's not just that, Eric. It's just more like the notion of like there's a promise that like if you do this story will credit. you on our airwaves. Oh, sure. You know what I'm saying? That's where to me it gets into a bad journalism place. No doubt there are other publications or other outlets where they would be like, this is great. Let's do it. I guess I want it more organically is what I'm saying. If they decide to do it, that's their choice. But I am interviewing, you know, Roman Reins or Seth Rollins because I have an interest in that from my audience. Not to put you in the spot, but to put you on the but over the years who have you most enjoyed working with in terms of a contact and a liaison

who's been the the most fun for you to work with from wwee you know i i have a very good relationship with paul haman and for whatever reason um and i don't even remember where it started it's most likely either i reached out to him on social media or he reached out to me on something i wrote. I'm probably away from wrestling. And when I started a sports media podcast at SI many, many moons ago, I'll tell you, Eric, I know you used to complain that you were not given resources at WCW. Trust me when I say, Time Warner was not giving me resources for the sports media podcast at Sports Illustrated. So Paul Heyman, not only did he do this podcast, which he did not have to do, and had absolutely no audience or standing at that point, he came

in to our offices. He taped the podcast in a closet that was used, I do not lie here, for the Sports Illustrated swimsuit issue. It was literally a closet filled with women's bathing suits. We did not have a podcast studio. We used a old closet. Haman came in. He could not have been nicer. He stayed with me for an hour. He walked around the office and met other people who were wrestling fans. And ever since that day, I've probably had him on now, seven, eight, nine times. Before he has a big show. I'll just reach out to him and say, hey, man, you've been doing great work, have a great show tonight, just because I really admire him as, I know I think you do, Eric, too. I admire him as a performer. He is so invested in his character. He's such a gifted on the fly

kind of promo person that I just, I admire that as art. You know, like to me, Paul Heyman, if you told Paul Heyman, he had to go on Broadway and perform in like a Shakespeare, play i have no doubt he'd nail it like literally zero doubt he would do it because he's a naturally gifted performer he understands a crowd he understands how to play them he understands when to improvise and went to not so he's the closest and um and he's always been great to me i mean he he once revealed on my podcast like literally he resigned with the w w a and he listed how many years he never does that this that's a guy never talks about his um you know his financial situation and i think he just did it because I think he trusts me and I think he knows that like you know I'm not I'm not and this is not

to disparage them but like I'm not part of the wrestling press I'm like I approach it in a different manner and and he's been good the other guy for whatever reason Michael Cole doesn't do a lot of interviews and he's done with me a couple of times and I think just some guess on my part because the first time I interviewed him all we did was talk about his pre-restling experience. Michael Cole covered wars. Michael Cole covered Waco. It covered the Waco

Insurrection in Texas. He has a whole life and a whole background prior to being one of the voices of WWE. And like that's very interesting to me just as a journalist. And I think he always respected that like I didn't, my first time talking to him

it wasn't like, hey, what's it like working with Roman Rans or hey, you know, does Vince, what's it like having Vince in your ear? Like, I'm not saying that's not interesting. I just, that's not a place I went to. And so I've had a good relationship with him and, uh, he's always been great to either come on and talk to me or, um, I happen to name Pat McAfee, my sports media person of the year, uh, which I thought was a legitimate pick, uh, you know, obviously wrestling ties.

And Michael Cole was great to just get back to me via text and give me some stuff on Pat McAfee. I know that's not something Michael Cole normally does. So, um, for me, that's been really beneficial that that's, I, I don't, I never take relationships for granted. And those two in particular, I really appreciate it. Right, Eric, this conversation has been so great with Richard Deich, but we got to take a quick moment here to talk about our pals over at Impera, because when the landscape is ever changing, our friends at Impera are there to help you get everything organized within

your business and launch your business plan faster and with less effort than ever before. Go to Empira.com. That's EMPI-R-A-A dot com forward slash Eric. And use our business. our code wrestle biz, W-R-E-S-T-L-E-B-I-Z to get 14 days free from Impera and 20% off your subscription overall. Let's talk about Impera, Eric. How can they help you if you're a small business, if you're a larger business, get your plan together? They can help you by learning to monitor and manage on a daily basis the most important aspects of your business. Once you identify the key pillars, as they like to refer to them at Impera, you can track them and manage them on a daily basis.

You can involve your team, whether you're a mom, pa operation, a husband and wife, brother, sister, two good friends, whatever, or whether you've got 25 people working for you, you can all stay on the same plan you can all be on the same page you can all be trying to achieve a common goal and you can do it by communication and and imperia provides you the tool that allows you to work your plan everybody knows you need a business plan if you're going to launch a business you have any hope of being successful you need to have a good business plan but you also need to have a tool to help you work that plan and manage that plan. Coming up with a business plan one time isn't the solution.

Coming up with a good business plan and then following it, managing it, modifying it as needed because the market change. Opportunities change. Everything changes every single day. Empira gives you the ability to do it and to do it relatively easily. You get sign up for less than a couple of these. You get a human being that will get online with you and help you set up and customize your Impira dashboard so that it fits your business.

You just can't afford not to try Impera. If you've got a small business of your own, if you're thinking about starting a business, you absolutely owe it to yourself to take a look at Impera. What I love about them is they help you hold not just your employees accountable, but holding yourself accountable. and what successful business hasn't found themselves in place where they need to hold people accountable. That's what Imper is going to do. You can assign tasks directly to your employees and to yourself as well and making sure that you're clearing those objectives.

And any hurdles that come with that, Impera organizes everything right there for you with 100% satisfaction guaranteed customer service. They are the best of the best when it comes to this stuff. Empira.com, EMPI-R, pardon me, E-M-P-I-R-A-A-A-A-A. a.com forward slash Eric code wrestle biz W-R-E-S-T-L-E-B-I-Z 14 days free and 20% off your overall subscription

with Empira Fight Plus is the ultimate digital platform for live sports and entertainment and they're now offering a free seven-day trial at tryfight.com Fight Plus is packed with a premium live event schedule over a thousand hours of live action every year

in a library of more than 4,000 hours on-demand plus exclusive content you can't get anywhere else fight is a great partner of ours they support us so let's support them give that free seven-day trial a shot and you'll be a member for life that's try fight dot com t r y f i t-i-e dot com it's that that new house street cred that michael cole is bringing to the table there i don't know if he'll ever do it but michael call has a really good book that has in addition to his long wrestling association he just he has covered things including war in yugoslavia that that i think one percent of the wrestling audience knows if that yeah well i'd love to dive a little more into this whole sports landscape conversation

as far as wb is concerned because you mentioned the whole like quid pro quo thing where it's like oh you break this story and then we'll bring you on air it's one of those weird sectors and intersections that WWE and pro wrestling finds itself in because it's not quite sport and it's not entirely 100% entertainment. There's definitely athletic elements of it. Right. So I'll ask that fable question, where does pro wrestling fit in the sports landscape? You know, I've heard Eric sort of go on and say it's not a sport. He's correct. It's not. It's there's a there is a predetermined outcome for pro wrestling. And that to me sort of that's, singular thing makes it not a sport. Now, where I get ticked off as someone who's a long time

wrestling fan is when you don't tell me like it's athletic. You're just being silly because like in that sense, you're giving no respect to these performers who in some ways were phenomenal athletes in traditional sports before this, but not to mention it's just it's an incredibly athletic endeavor. So, John, I would say this. I think the way I think about it because of what I write is I think about it in terms of like a property among the sports sort of business you know ecosystem or sports media ecosystem and in that sense and this is where nick con who I've known for a while is correct like they are competing against everybody they're competing against the NFL they're competing against movies they're competing against Netflix and so I think

when you think about WWE I think it's sort of twofold one you think to me I think of it as sort of an athletic scripted competition and that's where you get into storylines and stuff like that and then the second part is i think about it as a very very big sports business and that's when you can get into the conversations of where is this property going to go the two of you i i know know very well that the media rights are coming up they're in an exclusive negotiating period i believe right now with their two incumbents, NBC Universal and Fox. And so that's the second element to it. And trust me, NBC Universal and Fox and Nick Con and Devor,

they're treating all this the exact same way that Adam Silver and Steve Balmer and the NBA people treat their property as a media right. So that's where wrestling is this sort of weird thing. On the one hand, it's this scripted competition. It's not like anything else. the business side of the business everybody is approaching this in the same exact way the traditional sports leagues will approach their media rights no no different have you seen over the years let's say over the last 10 years have you seen sports media specifically your your universe but even

a broader media mainstream media have you seen them beginning to look at wrestling differently or is that my imagination? It is absolutely not your imagination. I mean, look at the deal that just happened between Endeavour and WWE. I mean, you know, you saw the valuation on it. Whether it's a real valuation or not, I'll let the financial geniuses decide. It seems a little high to me. But it absolutely has changed, Derek, because this would just be my thesis.

So much a broadcast television has. cratered. You know, the days, all of us are old enough to remember the days of Seinfeld and Shears, right? And all these show, family ties, whatever, Cosby Show. These were drawing 20 million, 25 million, 30 million viewers every week. I mean, that you can print money, essentially, with that kind of, like, programming force. The world of television today has totally blown up. Scripted television for many of these major places is essentially done. They don't want to invest in that anymore. They just consider it too expensive.

Prestige television has switched to like the HBO's of the world, right, in the showtime. So you don't even see that as much anymore on, you know, the CBSes and NBC's. So let's just take a place like Fox. If you're Fox and you've decided that essentially your business on the media side is live news and sports, right? Essentially Fox News, Fox Sports, and then whatever you can sort of program into that apparatus, you then have to look at wrestling as a serious entity. Like I actually, you know, because I knew I was going to come on with you guys. So SmackDown as of the end of March, averaging 2.4 million viewers per episode.

That's up about 8% from last year, which again, in my world, if you're up or flat, that's a win. That's a big win in today's cord cutting world. So the people at Fox are looking at this as like, they're not looking at things, oh, it's wrestling. It's just, you know, odd, crazy, k-fabe world. They're like, this is a property that gets us 2.4 million viewers every single week. And we have to now figure out what is a price point for that. And if you're Nick Conning company, you're doing the same thing. This is a property that we give you, 52 weeks a year, that gets you, you know, nearly two and a half million viewers, which is a major number now on network television.

What is that price point for us? So, no, John, I think all of these businesses now, they don't think of wrestling as some kind of like, you know, like redheaded stepchild in the closet like they look at this as like this is an important content play for us and how are we going to monetize it and certainly NBC Universal which not only has raw right but I would say unquestionably it's the most important property on Peacock I'm sure my soccer friends might disagree with me with the EPL and we can have that conversation it's not a bad conversation to have but it's either one or two depending on you know who you are so These media companies, wrestling is a major, major content play for them, and it's really just going to come down the price.

By the way, we have the same conversation with AEW, and Warner Brothers Discovery has to decide, they have some big decisions to decide. One, if they're going to still be in the sports business big time, because the NBA rights are coming up, and Warner Brothers Discovery is one of the big partners. So they've got to figure that out. And then obviously AEW is going to probably go to them and say, do you want us to stay? Andy wants to continue. So that company has to decide if they're in the wrestling business long-term. Do you think that there's a, do you think there's a connection for, in the case of Warner Discovery, do you think they're having a conversation that would sound something like,

wait a minute, we don't need the NBA because wrestling is stable enough and is delivering enough and it's 52 weeks a year. Yes, it's not the scale. It's not the playoffs, but it's consistent in its money. Do you think it's that conversation? Or is it all up, is it, look, if we're not going to take the NBA, we're going to get out of sports completely and we don't need wrestling. I think, I will tell you, Eric, Warner Brothers Discovery has been a little tricky to figure out.

They have a new executive, you know, Discovery took over for Turner. And so David Zazloff has been putting to the market. He's the head of Warner Brothers Discovery. Some very mixed messages on the NBA. One, like, you know, we'll do the deal, but it's got to be a great deal for us. It's got to be future forwarding. There's not an unlimited amount. cash and then his latest was oh we love the NBA you know we've been longtime partners for 19 years so

you never really you never do great publicly negotiating these deals um but i i don't i think eric i think i think i think Warner Bros. Discovery doesn't look at it as a one or the other i think they look at those two properties separately and they'll have to make the first decision with the NBA because that's a very very pricey property um the NBA deals that are going to come up in 2024 with all the different partners went for $24 billion, you can make a very easy assumption that they're going to double that. So you're looking at a $48 billion property over however many me, I'm using that as a minimum.

I think it'll be higher. So you're using that as a minimum and then you figure out who the partners will be, whether it's Warner Brothers Discovery. It'll certainly be Disney. I can't see ESPN not going in on the NBA. We'll see if any streamers are interested between Amazon and Apple. We'll see if, you know, if Fox wants to be part of that or NBC. But the point is the NBA, their demos are great.

They have a young audience. They're global. They're going to get paid. So Warner Brothers Discovery has to really make that decision first because that's the real big money. Then I think they eventually get to AEW, which is going to cost them a lot less. And they really said they ask themselves, like, are we in this business? do we like the association with wrestling do we want to do like other combat related things that like would sort of seemingly like make our programming close the last thing i'll tell

you guys i found this pretty interesting i had an analyst michael nathanson on my podcast this week he's a very very prominent uh analyst in if you watch the nbc you've seen him um really really bright guy and has been a top analyst for a long time he told me that what he found is like people under 25 do not see tn t and t at all as a destination it's essentially like invisible to them like it's not like us when we grew up tvs meant something meant the braves and wrestling tn tn t meant like the NBA generally speaking in like probably like 50 million law and order shows and shawshank redemption but he's like in his research you just found that like it doesn't really mean anything to the under 25 crowd at all so if i'm more a brother's discovery if nothing else

like a w brings me that crowd at least it might not not be a big crowd, but it's that crowd, at least a little bit. So if I were them, if I were counseling them, I would stick with AEW. I would continue that relationship. I know Tony Kahn certainly wants it. It's, you know, you want Warner Brothers Discovery money. It's real money. But that's my long-winded way of the answer to you, Eric, that I think these two discussions are so different because we're talking, one is like Rolls-Royce and like the other is, you know, Honda Civic. It's just two different worlds. so i suspect i suspect that warner discovery was in on the bid for wwee don't know who else was

are you surprised liberty media i think was in liberty was in there were some there were some other funds that you know acronyms you wouldn't recognize or i wouldn't at least right but i do know that warner discovery was in and all right i strongly believe leave let's put it that one um are you surprised at NBC Universal or and or Fox didn't jump in well you know I asked Nathan's in that it's pretty interesting and he you know one of the things he when we're just in it he doesn't really cover WWE but he's a smart enough guy to ask and he said the one thing that stood out to him was like you know NBC Universal already has a gigantic partnership with WWE and you know obviously with their peacock deal and with um their linear

television deal and he's like if they really wanted it they could have just bought it like you know he's like that surprised him that like you know you you already had the relationship you had the inroads um so i'm not sure why nbc universal didn't go all in i mean you know i've read like a lot of reports that maybe they were a little reticent because of vince and what kind of involvement he would have and obviously you got to deal with his you know legitimate negative headlines but I don't know I feel like if they really wanted it they just would have wrote out whatever the bad press was and they're they've been used to Vince and his his chady chinanicans yeah right so like I feel like this is the first time yeah I mean listen NBC goes back you know this with Eberson McMahon are best buddies like that relationship goes back forever with that company

I would say again you know there are there are people who are reporting this much deeper and better than me I have talked to some of them though I I think the incumbents will absolutely want WWE again. I would be, I don't, I cannot fathom a strategy for NBC Universal to get out of the WWE business given Peacock. To me, they might as well just say goodbye to Peacock their streaming service if they cut ties with the WWA. So I think they're in.

I'd say hell of a lot of leverage, isn't it? I think, you know, where Nick Kahn and, and Ari Emanuel say, you know, we really feel like we got a strong hand. I think they got a strong hand with the NBC Universal. I happen to agree with them on that. Fox is a little bit tricky because I think they're still going to stay in the same philosophy with news and live. So that would make me want to be in business with the WWE. My only caveat with Fox is that, and I just, this is like the real hardcore media reporters who would have a much better sense than me.

When Rupert Murdoch passes, I just don't. want to take a guess as to what the strategy will be in that succession plan of what fox is going to do i would guess that whatever kid takes over will continue the same philosophy that rupert murdock had in terms of what they're doing now because to change the business that dramatically seems not smart business that said none of us know like what the succession plan is none of not to get into the succession you know succession show but like none of us know like how the board will vote and all that stuff. But I would say today, I think both incumbents continue with WWE,

and because I think Nick Kahn and Ari Emanuel in that group are smart, I think they figure out a way to cut in a streaming service as well, whether they create a whole new premium live platform for like Amazon or Apple. I'm just making this up. I don't know if this is a good idea or not, but let's say you create five new premium live events strictly for Amazon or strictly for Apple. That's their part of the deal. You figure out a way to monetize it. I'm sure wrestling fans won't be happy about paying for another service, but that's life, you know,

in the big city. But they'll do it. They'll do it. You make that, you make whatever those events are, like really cool and relevant to storyline. You know, you create another SummerSlam, but it lives on Amazon or it lives on Apple. Peacock and NBC Universal probably won't be happy about that. But, and this gets back to your point, Eric, I think they can't escape the WWE business. They're too deep into it that they'll just have to live with the fact that this other competitor is going to get this additional inventory. But that's the one thing that WW absolutely can do is they can create,

I think, new premium live events. And who know, you know, like once upon a time, like, it's not like, it's not like SummerSlam existed forever, right? It's not like, you know, you have really brilliant people. you know, Dusty Rodes or somebody like creates StarCade. Like you, smart people in the wrestling business can create like these new brands that eventually the public will jump up. Hey guys, Tony Shavani. I need to call the timeout real quick.

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Okay, so one thing that Eric Bishop of certainly knew from throughout the years is that when you're on the road, even as much he loves to go to restaurants, it can be hard to get those meals. And when you're trying to put together an entire weekly television show, sometimes even two to three weekly television shows per week. So that's why back in the day, I can tell you Eric wishes he had a company and a partner like factor in his back pocket. Because when you need nutritious, convenient meals to energize you for warmer active days and keep you on track reaching your goals. Factor, America's number one ready to eat meal kit is going to help you do just that by helping you fuel up with fast and ready to eat meals delivered straight to

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That's code wrestlebiz at factormeals.com slash wrestlebiz to get 50% off your first box. Well, and one of the things that WWE in particular has as an advantage over a lot of the other leagues is that WWE is a living, breathing production company at the end of the day. Right. Live event, amazing. And that's live event. streaming everything i mean you know i don't have to explain to you they were the innovators of the over-the-top streaming concept and not getting in bed with mlb advanced media i was with mlb advanced media at the time when that stuff was happening it was a very exciting time i'd love to take your temperature on how you feel about esPN and where espn sits especially as w e vc and ufc had

this merger we know ufc has existing relationships with disney and espn you just said before WWE is not really a sport, but ESPN identifies itself as, you know, the worldwide leader in sports. So what kind of appetite would there be for WWE content, especially with a company that has been kind of tepid with WWE in the past? I'm sure that they're going to have conversations. Nick Kahn's relationships with ESPN executives is very, very deep and very, very good. the CAA ESPN ties are just throughout that entire organization and obviously Nick Kahn came from CAA so I John the one thing I can guarantee you is they'll talk both sides would be foolish not to the real question that I would have I don't think ESPN

would have a problem like philosophically putting wrestling on like I mean look trust me like they put some I don't even I was about to I'm not sure if I can curse on strictly business they put some shit on there that is absolutely nonsense. So, like, there, there, there's no morality play for ESPN. Like, they'll trust me when I say, I don't know if they would have put the slap league on, but they're pretty close to putting everything else on. I've covered them for a long time.

Trust me, I've seen some bullshit on that, on that enterprise. So that's not going to be an issue. I think they would put WWE on in a second. The question would be that I would have, and I'm sure Khan would be too, is, I think if you're WWE with ESPN, you've got to get some decent programming. You got to either be on ESPN or ABC where I think ESPN might be like, oh, we'd love to be in business with you, but we want to put it on ESPN plus so we can keep charging our customers, right, 11, 12, 13 bucks.

And then if I was WWE, I'd be like, no thanks because I'm already on, I'm already behind the paywall with Peacock. And my goal is to get reach. My goal is to be on over-the-air Fox and, you know, and maybe some other over-the-air type of places. So that would be the discussion I have. Now, just again, since we're all skipball in here, the ESPN all of a sudden came back and said, hey, you know, we talked to our executives at Disney

and they're interested in like Wednesday night on ABC wrestling. Well, then the conversation absolutely changes. Because then if you're Nick Kahn and Ari Emanuel and Vince and all these cats, you've got to be like, all right, that's a broadcast network with more than 100 million households. That's a broadcast network we've never been on. that's a lot of potential new audience a lot of potential sales then i think they'd think about it i wouldn't expect that but um but it's not it's not impossible that's could you see could

you see a combination where it's uh for example an ESPN plus and for network specials on ABC or something to the so you mitigate the uh the ESPN plus issue yeah with the carrot of some network specials yeah i think i think w w would be really interested in that the The question that I would have on all this is ESPN can negotiate for ESPN, right? But ABC gets to the Disney corporate level. It's not like Jimmy Patero who runs ESPN can make a guarantee to Nick Conn and say, you'll get four ABC specials. Jimmy Pittar ultimately has to, I think it's Bob Iger now,

he ultimately has to get to sign off from his boss. And the only question I would have is how does Disney C. www programming slash Vince because that is one company that is selling to the market family friendly entertainment again I wouldn't have a problem with it like if I was Bob Iger I would look at it very clear-eyed like is this good for our business but I'm just sort of throwing it out there that there are that would be the one company maybe CBS a little bit too but that would be the one company for sure where those discussions would would exist But again, you know, this is where Khan and, you know, Mark Shapiro, whoever does these deals, they got to, you know, you got to navigate not pissing off Fox, who's already committed to you 52 weeks a year over the air.

And, you know, if you start dealing with ABC and there's four weeks of ABC, you know, the Fox people are going to be happy. This is where, you know, this is where negotiation mastery is really, really important. I have no doubt they're going to get a good deal The other thing that I was thinking about I just wanted to bring up to you guys You guys may have talked about it before The one thing for sure Where it comes to the Endeavor

WWE merger Not a merger of equals but merger Is I think you're going to see So much more signage And so much more Like the marketing Yeah sponsorship all over the place Like I mean

I think it'll take WWE fans To get used to a little bit but there's absolutely no reason why wrestlers could not come to the ring in the same way, like, you know, John, like how soccer players come to the European soccer players. They're all sponsored on their jerseys and everything else. Like, why wouldn't you have Roman? I get. Well, even Brock Lesnar is allowed to come with the Jimmy Johns and all that.

And I get it. Like, yeah, Roman Raines has a certain look. I'll just use him as an example. But, like, you know what? If, like, TikTok or some sponsors says and says, you know what, we'll give you, we want to sign Roman reigns for the year, we're going to give you $50 million, and the deal is when he walks to the ring in every arena, he has our company on the back. That, WW hasn't touched any of this. The Eric knows it's better than me. Like all the ring stuff, they've never done a thing with

their ring. Their ring is Christine. You know how much money they theoretically can make which, and I'm not saying it doesn't look like kind of cheap or chintzy, but could you imagine like signage in the front of the ring where literally the shot from like the, the, I call like the center field camera or the sort of the top-down shot. And that advertiser is getting that branding for like three hours on WrestleMania. You're talking millions and millions and millions of dollars of potential advertising. And they haven't touched.

And I think the one thing if I was a wrestling fan is, and the English Premier League fans have to deal with this as well. And, you know, baseball fans too. Like the tradition, whatever you think of the tradition of X is going to blow up. because these guys are, Endeavor is very famous for figuring out ways to make money marketing wants. But you know what? And I see both sides of it. And I can imagine that one of the reasons we haven't seen a lot of heavy sponsorship in WWE, we've seen some. But I think the reason we haven't seen it consistently, particularly on the televised product, is in part, and I'm guessing, but in part, in large part, because of Vince McMahon's perspective. on protecting his brand.

In other words, not wanting the WWE brand to take a second position to Coors Light or standard oil or whomever. So I get it, and I get your point about the traditional wrestling fan, because you're right. Anytime you change anything,

you're going to get a certain percentage of the audience. It's just going to make a bunch of noise bitching about it. But at the same time, I think once the audience gets over that hurdle, that cycle, that cycle, a logical hurdle. Wait a minute. Now they're sponsoring everything. It will give wrestling an added sense of credibility. I agree. Because you're used to seeing soccer, football in Europe. You're used to seek NASCAR. You're used to seeing majorly,

you're used to seeing it as a sports fan. The only place you don't see it is in professional wrestling for now. I think they'll get used to it. And I think you'll make it cool. AW does do it, Eric. I do want to say that. AW has draft kings all over their ring. They've got, they're taken from the Eric Bischoff playbook there. You know what you? You know, this is what I would call. They're just taking people's money.

This is how I would approach it if I was WWM. And I think they have a lot of smart people. You guys remember in the early 2000s where it seemed like everybody for like a little bit of a stretch was wearing these like NASCAR jackets like Eminem on the back or whatever other company on the back. And it became a fashion or status symbol. A lot of hip hop artists were wearing these stuff where they essentially would be wearing like, you know,

tied on the front or something like that. If WWE can figure out a way to make this like cool for the fans in terms of merch, then it all melts together. They make money and the fans like think the merch that they're buying that has like the advertising stuff is cool. So I think I'm not saying it's easy to do, but it is, it is doable and the reality is like they you know and Devere paid a lot of money for

WWE like they do have to figure out ways to like monetize this the media rights one is obviously the biggest monetization but they're going to have to do that my other thought and again you know I lived through this you know Eric when I was at Sports Illustrated I went through the AO I've heard you many times talk about the AOL time warrant emergence fascinating for me to hear this you talk about it because I was on the print side at Sports Illustrated um and so yeah i i yeah if you've ever you know if you knew me i i've dropped many f bombs on both aOL management and time order management may they people have no idea you know and it's funny in my world on my podcast of course yeah people a certain percentage of the audience think

oh he's just blaming everybody else oh no no you know and people have no fucking clue those motherfuckers sit down a very bad path i'll just be very good i mean i we both Both of us have come out on the other side, but some, some didn't. But to get back to that, like, you know, they have to figure out a way to monetize stuff. And I think they, and the media rights are obviously the big one, but I think they will. You know, so I, the one thing I could almost, the one, two things I could sort of promise you for sure is one, you are going to see some kind of WWE movie franchise. They're going to figure out whether it's Roman Raines or Rear Ripley, like someone's going to do the Dave Batista. because Endeavor's great at that.

Like they're going to figure out a way to, I'm not saying it'll be successful, but they're going to try. They're going to try to grate their own marble universe. We're going to try to do it again because they did it once with WWE films. Yeah, so we'll see. But that was then and this is now.

And the other thing too, which I think sucks, because like people will lose their job. I don't see any way that they don't eventually cut staff after figuring out the integration of back-end stuff. Like who can do what? I just, I think, like, they're going to have to try to get leaner as a company because I think they just paid a lot. So those would be my two predictions. And the other easy one, this isn't a genius.

Like, they're going to get a great meteorites deal. The content is still king. They produce great content. They give you 52 weeks a year. If you're Fox, that's just like, you know, there are people whose job. They get paid to, like, have programming grids. And they put that in their programming grid. and they are done on Friday with their content.

So, like, they're going to get paid on that. And then we'll see heading forward. You know, it's a cyclical business as Eric knows far better than me and you, John, and there'll probably be times where things are great and things are not. But it's a good business, and it's a good business because it is part of the American popular culture zeitgeist. And that's not changing. Like, wrestling will be around long after, my opinion, long after the three of us are gone. You know, assuming the economies of the world don't blow up or anything crazy like that.

It's just, it's too, it's the same people who start talking about like, oh, football's dying and moms aren't going to put their kids in football or like baseballs, this, that. It is so, even horse racing and boxing, which were once the major, right, sports in this country in 1930s, 1920s, they may not be as big as they used to. But every single Saturday in this country, you can go to a horse racing track, right? and find people riding running horses and betting on them. These kind of industries and these kind of popular culture currents do not disappear from the American public. They may reduce, but they never go away. And so if I was a stock market analyst, I would always be long on wrestling because I just don't think it's going to go away. They're embedded in the fibers of American sports and culture in particular.

So you're 100% right on that. got to take a quick pause here to tell you guys about some of our favorite friends here on strictly business i of course am talking about manscape listen you can't expect us not to talk about manscaped on this show when you got two kendalls as your hosts you already know this guys it's tax season here in the united states and you know what that means means that manscape is here to make sure that your paperwork is done and your boys downstairs they're having fun make sure you spend your tax return money on the important things is you're like family, your friends. And of course, some ball deodorant, join the 8 million men worldwide who trust Manscape by going to Manscape.com for 20% off plus free shipping with our code wrestle biz, W-R-E-S-T-L-E-B-I-Z. What better way to invest your tax return than into yourself? That's the mantra that I've had throughout the years. Well, I'm going to do that this year with Manscape, because Manscape has the full pack. from head to toe to make sure that you get your money's worth this April.

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I got a little date coming up later on today. well the beauty is i've got the beard hedger pro kit for manscape as well i'm not one of those rugged types rocking the whole woodsman beard it's not really my thing but i do like to have a little bit of facial hair so the beard hedger pro kit is helping me containing nine plus products and wet goods this is everything you need to craft your signature look on your face as well and the start of spring also marks the start of testicular cancer awareness month in april a manscape has partnered with the Testicular Cancer Society to bring awareness to testicular cancer, men's health and early cancer detection. That makes Eric Bischoff and I very happy as well as our balls, by the way.

So get 20% off plus free shipping with the code wrestle biz at Manscape.com. That's 20% off plus free shipping with the code wrestle biz at Manscape.com. Don't just get your money back this year. Get your swagger back too with Manscaped. I want to hit on one more thing before we wrap here. and we're so gracious for your time on Striply Visitors. It's a great conversation. I appreciate it. Nick Con. So you've talked a lot about Nick Con on this podcast.

For a lot of wrestling fans, Nick Con is somewhat of a mythical figure, where he came into their world. They didn't really have any concept as to who he was or context as to what he's done. But they're seeing these dramatic shifts in real time because what Nick Con does in WWE doesn't just affect WWE. It has a radical dominant.

effect on the entire industry and you and i were joking on twitter you said when the sale happened you're like uh undefeated streak nick con making wealthier people leave wealthy people even wealthier i said well who's going to be the brock to his taker and you said oh he'll be on a beach in maui by that point so nick con what exactly does he bring to the wrestling industry and how significant at the end of the day will we look back on his run in wrestling and and see how he changed the industry yeah yeah that john thank you for giving putting me out putting that line over nick con's genius is making uh wealthier people even wealthier it is very very true um listen nick i've dealt with nick con for a long time he's a very smart guy um and i respect him i think he's um i think his if i had to

think about it he's got a couple of things that he does in exceptionally well one even as an agent in CAA, he was able to sort of see things that were happening two or three steps ahead of others. And he was able to either place his clients in a very, very safe landing or get his clients away from something that was going to be a, not a very good place to them to be. That's a really interesting skill to have. It's not that I'm saying he's a fortune teller. He's just able to read markets or he was able to read that market a little quicker than the people he was negotiating with. The second thing is, and this may be actually his biggest and smartest trait, is that he is a phenomenal networker of people. How do I sort of say this? I've dealt with him

sort of obviously as a reporter as opposed to something else, but he has a really great ability to make you at least believe that he's very interested in what you have to say and that it's genuine. And I think most of the time it is, by the way. I'm not saying he's k-faving it. I think he's genuinely interested in people. But that's a real gift. It's a real gift to be able to, let's say, do that with me, like a reporter, do that with Vince McMahon and Stephanie McMahon, you know, which obviously is fraught in terms of a family business. And then to do that with the people he's negotiating with across the room, Mark Lazarus of NBC University, et cetera. So that's a really, really great skill set. Even you saw with WrestleMania, his, trust me,

when I can tell you there was probably a thousand people there that had direct contact with like they were there because of nick con now nick con might not have invited him directly might have had PR staff or something else but that that circle was all sort of nick con and he's very very smart about that and i think strategic about that and then the last one i would say and again because i think i know him a little bit i think this is fair nick con doesn't have a uh silver spoon wealthy kid story this is not a kid who was born on like wall street or something you know dad was a finance or something like that is an immigrant story his family i believe came from iran at a certain time in the 70s you can fact check me on that but i'm not so off um they were absolutely middle class i know like you know

guy was waiting tables like as he went through law school at unlv so i think he has a really unique ability as a CEO to um relate to many different types like i think he could be very comfortable having a conversation with a billionaire, as well as having a conversation with a guy at a bar. That's a real skill set to me, because this is just my read, and I know Eric Loves business, I think that means you can read people really, really well, that you're not, your whole life hasn't just been in one economic class, but you have floated through different types of people, so I think you can read people pretty good. So I think, listen just think of his own navigation the guy became he was an agent he eventually was hired by

wwee and he survived like family issues with the mcmans like he's obviously a skilled operator not to have ever gotten taken down right by all that stuff um so that gives you a sense of he sort of understands how to operate in different worlds um so i have i have a lot of faith that will um will we'll we'll we'll we'll get a good deal for wb the only my only last sort of thought on all this and again i mean eric knows this he's it he's dealt with much higher business types than me you just don't know like you don't know somebody like rie ammanuel wakes up one day in 2025 and it's like up i got to get a new CEO i got to change it up that's my only like you know you don't know when your time is up but that's why i was making joke joke to you john like when

Nick Kahn's time, trust me, the beach house is already built in Kauai, and it'll be like, all right, I had my time. I loved wrestling. This was great. So I think in many ways, he's already been a massive success. He got this thing over the finish line, and he survived in WWE when literally there were parts of the family who were, like, leaving, like, each other, you know, business-wise. So I think he's been an incredibly successful executive.

for them and and i have no doubt that um we will land a great media deal that's an interesting it's a really interesting perspective but i had not thought about that but the drama and you know we've all heard bits and pieces about what that might that drama may may may look like but the fact that nick con who is an outsider who's relatively new to the McMahon universe was able to step in as an outsider in the role that he was in and a avoid the crossfire that you know was taking place. Exactly. I mean,

there was shit getting lobbed back and forth and under the table and around the corner. And to be able to survive all that. And right out of that storm on the white horse with the hat on, because you put that deal together, is nothing short of amazing. I think he's, I mean, again, I don't know how he did it.

I think he figured out a way to not get involved in the family side of the McMans. and only be involved in the business side. And I think that is so much harder to do than how it sounds, but he didn't. And I just think others, I think less savvy people would have been swallowed up in that. They probably would have picked aside and they would have been done. He, and I don't know how he did it, but for whatever reason, he was able to stay on like a, like on the side and observe as opposed to being part of. And that, trust me, John, Eric, and I think you both know this.

That is, there's true genius in just literally that alone. That single move is genius. And like Eric said, he came in on the other side and we haven't even gotten to the compensation. I mean, think of how much, the guy was wealthy or ready. You're not a CA top agent and not a multimillionaire. He put his family into a different stratosphere of wealth with all this stuff. Good for him. Yeah.

Absolutely. 100% I'm with it no I mean that I it's a success story and it's the fact that he didn't come from wealth the fact that he didn't have a lot of big breaks getting into the fact that he worked his way up and it's pretty much a street fighter yeah just happens to be a really really smart and talented one makes me look up to him even more yeah yeah again I think he was a defense lawyer again trust me on this as someone who has some lawyers in their family you're not going to UNLV if you're a silver spoon like kid you know you're going to harvard law yeah law columbia law you know name your famous law school so um again i this is just me playing amateur psychologist uh my mom was a shrink so i mean maybe i do have a little bit of uh insight also by the way all kids of shrinks as a general rule of screwed up um but uh but that's my that's my amateur psychology thing is that like his ability to talk to interact with different types of people i think is a massive skill. It also probably

in some weird way, maybe weird's not the right word. It helps them, I think, relate to the WWE universe because he's not so far removed from a guy who is sitting somewhere in the upper deck watching those shows. So he's unique.

I will give Vince credit for this. That was a great hire. I don't, he he didn't hire a yes man. And that traditionally in a lot of pro wrestling companies get in trouble and he he was able to hire a savvy businessman who took him on who got him across the across the finish line yeah and that was always one of vince's biggest uh people would shout

that at him that oh you're surrounding yourself by yes men you're surrounding but nick con very much the antithesis your arms are so big boss that's why i love that we got a we got a true thoroughbred conrad verse fan here in richard on this podcast this has been so great man where can people find your work uh they can find that the athletic um sports media podcast and um i mean for now on twitter and some other social media jones june we'll see you know it depends on the day we'll see if these companies are around but uh but yeah no i'm uh you'll find me on the athletic and um and my own podcast but uh no this has been a real treat like i said i wasn't bullshining you guys i'm i'm a listener um and

obviously you know i've been a admirer of whatever Eric's done for a long time. So this was my treat. I would have paid you guys to me on. So I appreciate it. Thank you. Thank you, Richard. It's been a real pleasure having you on.

And we'll do it again. Awesome. Absolutely. I think the athletic is the new Sports Illustrated as far as the standard for sports writing and stuff. So go check out all the work there. This has been strictly business. Eric and I will be back with you next week right here on the 83 weeks feed.

Make sure you're checking that out. 83 weeks.com. We know how value. that is. And of course, you can head on over to advertise witheric.com. If you want to hop on like our friends over at Empira, we got you covered, promote your business, promote your entity, your product in front of thousands of listeners every single week here, not just Strictly Business, but 83 weeks as well. Richard Deich, that's Eric Bischoff. I'm John Abel. We'll see you next week right here on Strictly Business.

Thank you.