83 Weeks with Eric Bischoff - Strictly Business with Eric Bischoff #24: A.J. Francis on WWE NIL and More (Best of the Business)

Episode Date: April 27, 2023

Crossover athletes have stolen the show in wrestling the past two decades, so why is that? In this never-before-public episode of "Strictly Business" taped in June 2022, Eric Bischoff and Jon Alba welcome in A.J. Francis (WWE's Top Dolla) to discuss that, WWE's NIL program, and more! ***NOTE*** This was taped during A.J.'s WWE departure, prior to his return. Special thanks to this week's sponsors! Empiraa- Sign up now and receive free onboarding, your first 14 days for free, and 24/7 support. Get ahead of the game and save 20% on your subscription by using the code 'wrestlebiz' at checkout. Launch your business plan faster and with less effort than ever before. Visit www.empiraa.com/eric today and start your journey to success! Fite+- Fite+ is the ultimate digital platform for live sports and entertainment, and they are now offering a free 7-day trial at TryFite.com FOLLOW ALL OF OUR SOCIAL MEDIA at https://83weekslinks.com/ Stop throwing your money on rent! Get into a house with NO MONEY DOWN and roughly the same monthly payment at SaveWithConrad.com On AdFreeShows.com, you get early, ad-free access to more than a dozen of your favorite wrestling podcasts, starting at just $9! And now, you can enjoy the first week...completely FREE! Sign up for a free trial - and get a taste of what Ad Free Shows is all about. Start your free trial today at AdFreeShows.com If your business targets 25-54 year old men, there's no better place to advertise than right here with us on Strictly Business. You've heard us do ads for some of the same companies for years...why? Because it works! And with our super targeted audience, there's very little waste. Go to AdvertiseWithEric.com now and find out more about advertising with Strictly Business. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

NMLS number 65084 Equal Healthy Lenders. Woo! As an adult, don't we all miss spring break? Nothing like taking a week off from all your responsibilities. Well, here's the next best thing for adults. A spring break from house payments. SavewithConrad.com can help you get rid of all your credit card debt, just like that. We're routinely helping our listeners, say, 5, 6, 7, even $800 a month.

And you don't need perfect credit or money out of your pocket to do this, but check this out. No house payments for two months. It's savewithconrad.com. How's it going, guys? This is another edition of Strictly Business with Eric Fischoff presented to you by ad-freeshows.com and the podcast. Heat Network. I, of course, am John Alba. And this week, we're doing a little bit of a throwback. We got something different for you. Both Eric and I are on the road this week. We are traveling for a couple of different reasons, but especially for a common cause that I'm going to tell

you about in just a moment. But with that said, we're not able to lay down something new and reactive. That's fine, because last week we gave you a fantastic episode with Richard Deich from The Athletic. If you haven't checked out that edition of Strictly Business yet, what are you waiting for? We talked all about WW, their media rights deals, Nick Con, AW. It's a fantastic conversation available in our archives, 83weeks.com. That's where you can subscribe and get Strictly Business and, of course, early access on ad-free shows.com. But many of you may not even be aware of this. You know, on your feeds, it says we're only in the 20s as far as episodes of Strictly Business are concerned. But Eric and I have actually been doing it.

this podcast for more than a year now. And that's because for about eight months, we were dropping episodes exclusively to ad-freeshows.com. So if you were a subscriber there, you got strictly business. A lot of those episodes have never seen the public light beyond ad-freeshows.com. And I thought they were some of our best episodes to date. So with Eric and I both unavailable to get together to record, I said to myself, hey, let's go into the archives and let's bring one of those episodes in front of the paywall, I'll give you a taste of what you've been getting at ad-free shows.com for a year now and enlighten on a topic that I think a lot of wrestling fans don't know a whole lot about. And that is the name, image, and likeness situation that WWE's got

going on. And this isn't just Eric and I talking about this, okay? For this episode, which took place in June of 2022, we had on AJ Francis, who you might know on WWTV, as top dollar. He was not with WWE at the time. He had been released a few months prior. And he came on the podcast to talk about not just the NIL situation with WWE, but also why pro athletes and college athletes have such an easy time transitioning into the world of pro wrestling. It's one that you should absolutely check out. And we're going to give it to you right here on Strictly Business. That's going to be a great episode. Get ready for that coming your way in just a couple moments, but I do want to remind you guys about this. Eric Bischoff and I are on the road this week

because we are headed to Fresno, California, home of the Fresno Grizzlies, a minor league baseball for pro wrestling night, April 30th. That's where you can catch a live edition of strictly business in 83 weeks with Eric and I. Tickets are now available on the official Fresno Grizzlies website. They have been fantastic partners with us. Head on over to Fresno grizzlies.com forward slash offers and get your tickets now. You can get just a standard admission ticket. There's also a game going on earlier in the day. Or you can even get that VIP access where you get a photo with Eric and you get a chance to talk to him. It's an awesome opportunity. And then stick around. We'll have a Q&A after our show. It's going to be an awesome

time. Pro wrestling night, the home of the Fresno Grizzlies. They're going to be hooking you up in style as are we at 83 weeks. strictly business. Of course, you know, our friends with Empira are hooking you up as well. I got more information coming on later on this podcast about them. But I think we should not waste any more time. Without further ado, let's take you back to June of last year for our full conversation about name, image, and likeness and athletes and pro wrestling with AJ Francis. Ad free shows fans, what is going on? It's time for another edition of Strictly business here exclusively on ad free shows. I, of course, am John.

Alba joined as always by the man of the hour. Mr. Eric Bischoff, Eric, we are rocking and rolling on strictly business last week. It was one of my favorite episodes of anything on ad free shows this year. Your boy, Tom DeShane's came through huge for us. I had a blast, but we got a very special guest this week, don't we? We do indeed. I'm really looking forward to this one. There's a, I have questions that only someone like our guest can answer. And I have answered. And he does. Our guest is A.J. Francis, former W.W.E. superstar top Dala and former NFL star as well in the process, a legit crossover athlete in the world of professional wrestling. And Eric, AJ reached out to me. He was like, I got to come on your show with Bischoff because I got a lot of things to talk about.

So strictly business is making the moves, man. AJ, thanks so much for being here. Yeah, thanks for having me, man. Yeah, I see, I saw a couple of you guys interviews and I was like, That just seems like so much fun. And I do interviews all the time that are not fun. So I just figured it would be cool to actually do one that I enjoy it. Were you a little bisch off of Mark growing up? Say that again? Were you a bisch off Mark growing up?

Oh, yeah. I mean, AWO is one of the greatest things that's ever happened in the history of the business. I mean, and that's not hyperbolic at all. I mean, it literally is one of the greatest things that's ever happened in the history of business. And it was funny. I saw a clip. Yesterday just happened to come up with my Twitter, and I thought it was hilarious.

It was a clip of Eric and Bobby the Brain just talking in the booth. And it was just funny to me. It was just like that Eric Bischoff is, I would have never seen that Eric Bischoff grow into what became EWO, Eric Bischoff. Like as a little kid in my mind, like I would have never see that transformation.

And it was obviously easy to do, because, you know, you put all the pieces together. It was a lot of fun. And I appreciate you saying all that. But it was a really special time in the industry in general. I mean, everything was, I guess, everything was set in motion for there to be something big to happen. Just in the television industry in general. And, you know, sometimes timing is everything.

And it just all fell into place. Eric, AJ is a legit crossover guy played in the NFL from 2013. through 2018, and when he and I were coming up with things to talk about here, immediately this NIL situation, the name image and likeness, NCAA situation, WWE, bringing in more crossover guys, fewer, quote, unquote, indie guys. That all came to mind immediately. And I thought AJ would be the perfect person to talk about some of this stuff, because AJ was trained by the Dudley Boys, came through the system with other independent

wrestlers, but is an NFL guy. So I guess, AJ, the first question that I have for you on that front is, during your training experiences, did you notice any different mentalities coming from your background in comparison to maybe some of the other wrestlers who had a more traditional wrestling upbringing? Honestly, looking back, I wish I never would have trained before I got to WWE because they pretended I didn't work the Indies anyway. You know, They pretended that I was just an NFL guy that didn't know what he was doing that needed to be taught lockups and how to bump and all the stuff that I had already been doing for well over a year by the time that I got to WWE. So I feel like honestly, like I had a lot of fun working the shows on the Indies and I'm back working those same shows now. So I've built relationships.

So that was important. But I feel like it was based off the first year I spent in WWE with everyone pretending I didn't know what I was doing. Like, I feel like I wasted that year on the Indies. I could have done something else. Like, got a real estate license and made money instead of, you know, like instead of going out of my way to try to actually perfect my craft when I got to the WWE, they pretended it, well, I hadn't done it anyway. So the biggest difference I saw between myself and this is one thing, John Cruz,

who's also known as Sir Penteco on AEW, he was, I trained at Team 3D, but my main train was John Cruz. And he was big on the biggest thing that I could sell, the difference between, you know, myself and other guys that I trained with while I was there, he would always say, like, he would just show me something once and I might not get it the first time. I might not get it the second time, but by the third time, I got it, guaranteed, right? And that's just being a creature of, you know, muscle memory habit for years playing in the NFL, playing college football, playing high school football where like your job is to get down the technique that you're being taught and that's like something that is very translatable into the ring if you want to be good you know

some people just want to get paid and there's a difference right so i wanted to be good i wanted to put on you know five-star classics i wanted to be the fat guy that has the five-star classics no fat guys have any five-star classics they don't get we don't get any five-star classics you know what I'm saying So, like, I wanted to be that guy, and I still can be that guy. So, like, that was honestly the biggest difference to me is that, like, there would be guys that I was training that they're good wrestlers, but, like, when they're learning a new technique, it would take them two, three weeks to get something down that I would get down in five, ten minutes. You know what I'm saying? It was just creature of habit, being able to do those repetitive motions in the exact, succinct order that you need to be able to do them. And, you know, just translating that into the ring off of the field.

AJ, let me, let me break that down just a little bit. It's really, this is fascinating to me, this, this precise discussion. Now, I never wrestled. You know, what I did in the ring was not wrestling, right? I was just a body bag that's sold. That's all I was. There's a difference. Yeah.

There was no give and take. There was no story being told. It was just a slaughter. So, but I did train in martial arts for a long, long time. I boxed golden gloves. I wrestled throughout high school and into college, Greco, Roman, and freestyle. And I'm not saying that to say, oh, I was, I was a tough guy or I was any good at anything. But from the time I was about 12 years old, I was learning amateur wrestling technique.

I was learning martial arts and the technique. And I think perhaps this is actually a question. Do you think that perhaps the reason WWE pretended you didn't know anything was because, as in my case, as a martial arts instructor, one of the things that I always used to be most frustrated with was when a student came in who had previous instruction. Because you had to unteach certain things because every style of martial arts has different ways of executing technique. and some of it's really, really almost nuanced and other times it's more pronounced. And it took me longer to train someone.

If someone came into my school, let's say they were a brown belt. They've been studying for three, four, five years, perhaps. And they wanted to move over to my school and get their black belt. Well, they had to start over. They got their white belt, just like everybody else. Actually, they got their no belt.

They had to earn their white belt, even though they were a brown belt somewhere else. and they had to learn our technique. And it often took me longer to untrain someone who had previous training than it did to take somebody that just walked off the street that had no training whatsoever. They would usually accelerate faster up into a certain point. Yeah. Do you think that that's the same perhaps in WWE and why they just try to teach you the basics from the ground up?

I mean, I'm sure that's the reason why they do it. But I'm saying, speaking from my personal experience, like, you can ask John Cruz, Sopentico himself, I've been able to work on the fly since I've been wrestling for like, you know, six months. Like, that's what they say that they want to be able, people to be able to do, and I can do that, no problem. I do it every time I go out.

Like, also, the one of the things that they had to change when they taught me how to wrestle in WWE was, like I said, I was wrestling on the Indies, and I was giving people more. and bumping and, you know, putting people over doing things like that. But once I got to the WWE, I had one match, and I worked it with Jake Atlas, and I gave him a bunch of stuff in the match. And Matt Bloom was like, yo, you're selling too much, you're doing too much,

you don't have to do that much. And I was like, all right, cool. From that going forward, I didn't bump. Like, you know, you only got to tell me one time, not. You know, like, you only got to tell me one time, like, hey, you don't have the buck. Cool. Because if you look back at, I had six matches in WWE, and in those six matches, I had, I took one bump in six matches. So it's like, clearly I learned and I knew how they wanted me to do it.

The thing was, it was just like, I always feel like, and this is no disrespect to wrestlers or just people in general. but I feel like 99.9% of professional wrestlers in the world I could beat their ass in a real fight, right? So, like, I think getting in the ring in general is already me giving you like, okay, this could happen, right? Like, I think me already being in the ring with somebody who's 5'10, 185 pounds, I should sell for that person

because at the same time, like, in real life, if we really did this, this wouldn't last longer than 30 seconds. So the fact that we're making this last five minutes in general is already the suspension of disbelief, correct? So I feel like it is my obligation to try and make people look better in those instances because I'm already doing that. But they, and a lot of people would say,

ah, no, you got a five-minute match, don't give them anything. I'm like, if I'm not going to give them anything, then why don't we just have this be a 30-second match and get this other way, you know? Yeah, I mean, there's, And I'm not arguing with you, but there's like two ways of looking at it. And it comes down to psychology. And it's a little bit, it's art, you know, it's subjective.

It's like music, right? But there's also when, and it's funny because you said, you know, they're right there. We're in a ring together, it's suspension of this belief. Well, kind of maybe not because if I look at A.J. Francis and I look at anybody else who's 5'10 and 185 pounds, you ain't suspended shit here, bro. Yeah, it's true. you haven't even got the part of suspension of disbelief out of your mouth yet and part of it again a different perspective would be in order for you to to get me to suspend my disbelief

is make that guy work for it and make me believe he actually earns something yeah and that me take four minutes and 45 seconds but you know it's just different you know there's no right or wrong it's just difference of opinion that that was one thing that that bothered me about not just wwe but wrestling in general wrestlers in general was like i always say this is performance art you're either a performer or you aren't so like when people go out of their way to like nitpick every detail of something like obviously if you miss a clothesline hey get that clothesline together you know what I'm saying like if you're driving a guy on his head like hey we can't do that that's a safety issue but like when it's like well you know you hit it with the back elbow in the corner

maybe you could have did a squisher instead I'm like bro like just give me the paint brush and let me paint like you don't have to be you know what I'm saying you don't have to be all in details like that no and I think sometimes people do that shit just to make themselves sound valuable because honest to God AJ if I was in the corner and I was sucking wind and I said oh he's going to hit me with something it's either going to be that splash or that godforsaken elbow to the chops i'd take the splash yeah and some guys we go now somebody directing we're at no you got to hit him with splash because it looks bigger and you're bigger but honest god starts suspending my disbelief i believe if a j francis hits some 1805 pounder to face with an elbow that's going to be

the end of it that's as bad as it gets with Out of weapon, that's as bad as it gets. Yeah. Well, ultimately, this is a macro conversation about a legit crossover guy came from the NFL who works his way into wrestling and a change in mentality. Or maybe it's not a change in mentality. And maybe this is just something that we've been seeing. But I think in the Triple H era of NXT, there was definitely more of an emphasis on bringing

indie wrestlers in and molding them to give that alternative product to what we saw in the WWE main roster. when Triple H had his health issues. We saw Nick Kahn come in. They changed the idea for what NXT can be. And now we see much more of an emphasis on people who come in from the NFL, from college sports, wherever. And that's where the target market is. And that's not to say they're not going to bring in independent guys.

But the idea is we can mold athletes. And Eric, we see this new NIL program in WWE, this next in line program where the idea is, because of the name, image, and likeness laws that were passed in the NCAA this past year, WWE can partner up with collegiate athletes and try to bridge a path all the way to the WVE main roster one day. They'll learn the industry. They'll learn different aspects of training. And it doesn't guarantee that they're going to be signed to a contract, but it gives a path.

So I would love to know both of your thoughts on a program like that and whether that's what the future of the industry is or not. So let me jump in real quick, AJ, and I want to just add a little more context to why I think this conversation is so cool, is I've had fairly successful experience, working with professional athletes and bringing them into action in the ring. Dennis Rodman. I talk about Dennis Rodman all the time. He's one of my favorite people. He's a great human being. If you don't know Dennis, trust me, you really don't know Dennis. And if you do know Dennis, you know what I'm talking about. He's a good guy. Smart.

but Dennis would show up when we first brought him in and I didn't know Dennis I was like most people that don't know Dennis and you look at him he doesn't look like he gives a fuck it looks like he's hired in the kite you swear to God you hired Snoop Dog and they hired or you hired Dennis Robin they sent you Snoop Dog instead it was it was horrible right when you first look at him and he showed up at the ring and he still didn't look like he didn't care it's almost like he's not paying attention he's got the big sunglasses on can't tell what he's looking at anyway looks like he doesn't give the fuck you show him something one time and he goes out there does it and everybody goes what the hell because again an athlete right analyzes technique

much differently than just some kid off a street or some you know actor actress if you grow up learning fundamentals and footwork and balance and timing it becomes a second nature to a professional athlete whereas someone who's not a professional athlete that didn't grow up doing that all their lives takes them a long time a lot longer to get that shit so i i love the idea you know kevin green same thing steve mcichael same thing we put steve into situations he probably shouldn't have been in but if you just look at some of steve's work he did some great great work for with almost no training other than on the job training you know carl malone walked right in boom having great matches with very little training great athletes so i think the whole idea of mining the

field of amateur athletes, college football players, in specific in this topic, I think it's a great idea because I think the trajectory from zero to hero is going to be much faster. And for the college athletes, yeah, they're not only getting maybe an opportunity to work their way into the system, but they're also getting a hell of an education about image and likeness, whereas most people are walking right out of college. don't have a clue they have to google that shit whereas you're going to get an education in it i think that's a great

thing too yeah i um i love the n i'll people trying to show me n n nil all the time i wish that i had the n i when i was in college do i think i would have made millions of dollars no i think that i'd have made a couple hundred thousand dollars though i mean i was a big name at merlin i was you know breaking news here i didn't listen to every ncbara rule i got a couple things right when when i was in college like i could have made some good money in the n i'll would

i have made as much money as my teammates step on digs absolutely not but that's also because he would have been able to market himself better than i could have because he played my receiver and he's one of the best to ever do it right so like there are different levels to which people can succeed but like can you see people like oklahoma's getting fifty thousand dollars to every kid that goes to their school. Do you know what I could have did with $50,000? Do you understand when I was in college that I used to have girls feed me on the weekend because my diner points were out and I couldn't eat on the weekend unless I had someone to get food for me? Like the difference between that and actually having spending money to be able to invest in property, invest in stocks, to be able to

actually try to open a business, actually put your teaching that you're learning in college into action instead of just a degree on my wall that's hanging right here, like, it would have been huge. And I'd love the fact that they do it in college now in respects to how they do it at WWE. That's, I think it's going to be huge for WWU because first things first, college athletes look like professional wrestlers, right? Like we see it a lot today where like you see a professional wrestler and he might be the world champion or whatever company he's on, but does he look walking in giant the grocery store people like wow that guy's a pro wrestler like maybe maybe not like you watch another athlete that you help groom was goberg right goberg walk into any store

and guess what you're like that guy is an ass kicker right like still to this day as however it is right so like i think that that aspect of the nil of them pulling kids right out of their college career in a prime physical shape within their life and then getting them to go into wrestling is going to be huge. Now, here's the thing, though. As you can tell, I'm a wizard with the wand. I can talk all day, and I can throw big words out,

and I can make you seem like you're listening to one thing while telling you a story about another. Like, I can do that all day, every day, right? That's the most important part of this business. I don't give a damn how good you are as a wrestler. I don't give a damn how good you are as an athlete. I don't give a damn about none of that. Like, yes, I played in the NFL, and yes, that did help me open doors,

and yes, that did show that I'm a top tier level athlete. But the best thing that I bring to the table is my mic work. Right. That's the thing that actually makes money, right? So, like, when, you know, you got some guys who don't need to be able to talk because they're just put in a good position, and the company makes sure that that works and they work and everything works for them. But except for those two or three guys in every company,

the guys that make money are the ones that are wizards with the wand, right? So, like, are these athletes going to be able to do that part is the part that matters to me? Because if you can, you can be the best athlete in the world. You can be the best wrestler in the world. But if you can't talk on the mic, you're just a placeholder until the next guy shows up. But, AJ, the conversation becomes passion, and that's a common part of the discourse that I see. They're like, well, they're bringing in all these college athletes. but almost none of them know anything about pro wrestling coming in.

They don't give a shit about professional wrestling coming in. They have no passion for the industry. And the argument that I will make is that pro wrestling is an industry that will wear you down and having passion for some element of it is important. Yes. You grew up a fan, so that helped you. And I'm sure at the PC, you were probably there with other crossover athletes who probably didn't give a shit about professional wrestling coming into the WWE Performance Center.

So does passion and background knowledge actually play into that conversation for a crossover athlete? I will say yes and no. And the reason why is, I'll give you an example, at my tryout. There was other NFL guys at my trial when I had my WW trial. For example, it was a three-day trial. And on this, after the first day, on day two in the morning, there was an old line in there that I had actually played against in the NFL. And he goes up to William Regal in the beginning of day two. And he goes, yeah, this isn't for me. I'm not. going to be able to make this work. Like, I'm not, I'm not, I'm not going to be able to do this, right? Because it's not for everybody. You do have to have a passion for it. But my thing is,

if you don't have a passion for it, it's going to get beat out of you well before you actually get anywhere on TV and into the traction of it. You know what I'm saying? Like, there's a select few people that get rushed onto TV when they sign. Like, even a guy like me, I was on, I was signed in January 2020. I didn't get on TV wrestling until after I got on TV hosting. a TV show, right? So, like, I didn't get on TV until May 2021. So, like, I was there for over a year. Someone who doesn't have the passion for it that was there for a year and knew they were ready and didn't get any opportunities to prove it, they would have been like, man, I'm out of this. There's a bunch of people that quit. There's a bunch of guys that get to

WWE sign, and then they're just like, man, I'm good off this, and they leave. And those guys will still be those guys, and they will still leave, and they will still not have a passion for it. But at the end of the day, one thing that is going to be coming from those college athletes a lot of times is the competitive nature of being a college athlete, right? So even if, let's say, they don't have a 10 out of 10 passion for it, but they're a competitor and they're like, you know what, this guy's not better than me. I'm going to make sure that I get there because I see that he can get there, right? That'll drive that passion along until finally like, oh, I actually do like this. and then boom, now you're on a run. I think, you know, passion and discipline, you know,

the discipline is the one thing that I think often gets left out of the equation, especially when the Internet wrestling community is, you know, for example, John is talking about, yeah, but you have to have that passion. You have to grow up a wrestling fan. I disagree. I don't think you have to grow up a wrestling fan at all. You know, you have to have, you can still have a passion for the industry and what you do without being able to tell someone, you know,

who won, you know, what match and Madison Square, garden in February 16th of 1962. I mean, who gives a fuck? At the end of the day, none of that stuff really matters. It makes you sound like you're a more knowledgeable, more immersed wrestling fan, and therefore you have some kind of magic credibility

for something. But at the end of the day, it doesn't really matter. What matters, I think, is when a college athlete, whether they grew up watching wrestling or they never watched it at all in their life, step into it and go, whoa, wait a minute. The competitive nature, the athletic nature in me knows I can knock the shit out of this.

can do this and then have the discipline to learn the things like doing a promo by the way couldn't agree with you more a j i don't really care if somebody has a physical ability to go out there and have five five star matches in a row that makes dave melzer jerk all over himself i could care less if they can't cut a promo if they can't create passion and help me want them to succeed or make me want them to fail i do not give a flying buck how many hurrican rotas they can do in a match makes no difference to me but that's just me you know that's just you have to have the discipline to go okay I know I can do all these physical things really well but I kind of suck on the mic and if I'm going to get good at that it's learning technique just like it is learning physical

technique it's just different and here's another thing sometimes you need got to learn sometimes you can outsource it like for example I'm not going to name names but I wrote promos for dozens of people in WWE that have been released and are still there. So it's like, they know that I'm a promo guy. So they ask questions. They'll send me what they want to say in their promo and I'll send them back a better version of the same thing.

You know what I'm saying? So like it's also as easy as, like they said, in the rest of the business, it's who you know, right? Well, that works for promos too. Let me ask AJ, John, maybe you, because I know very little about NIL, in terms of how it's all going to work, especially with WWE. But I'm just guessing here that you're a college athlete. You're going to get $50,000 from a local whatever.

They're going to take advantage of your name, image, and likeness because they think that you're going to be a future star in that college market. You've got to show up and do autograph signings. you've got to show up on time and maybe even wear shirt and a tie and go to meetings that you would other or go to events that you otherwise would probably not want to go to you're going to learn how to become a star from the ground up and discipline and the responsibilities that go along with it so when you do get that tv time and you do get those big opportunities you're not blowing it doing stupid shit Let's take a quick pause here on Strictly Business to talk about our pals over at Empira. Now, you know the sports world, there are so many checks and balances that every franchise has to go through. There are so many moving pieces, and sometimes those at the top end up bearing the brunt in the public eye because of it, whether it's due or not due. But with our friends at Empira, they want to help.

you make your business plan for the future by turning ideas into actionable plans and holding everyone accountable from the top to the bottom. You can assign your employees to specific tasks while making sure that they remain on plan with your plan and your objectives that you set aside for your business. Impira provides visibility into the success of your plan, helping you understand what is actually working and what is not. Their dashboard is incredibly easy to navigate and with 24-7 support, you know that you are getting people who are actually invested in your success. And the beauty of Empira is that when you partner up with a podcast like Strictly Business, you know we're hooking you up in style, as are they.

Head on over to Empira.com. That's E-M-P-I-A-A-A-A-com forward slash Eric and use that code wrestle biz, W-R-E-S-T-L-E-B-I-Z, to get 14 days from Impera for absolutely free, including 20% off your subscription. These have been some of our favorite partners that we've ever had in the 83 weeks family, and that's because they are dedicated to not just promoting their product in a way that benefits everybody, but they genuinely care about how your business is working. Empira provides a structured approach to business planning, keeping you on track and organized by helping identify potential risks and opportunities and enabling you to make data-driven decisions. It lays everything out for you there by allowing business owners to work on the business and not in the business.

And there is a significant difference there, my friends, I assure you that. Empira.com, E-M-P-I-R-A-A-A-D-com, forward slash Eric, and use that code, wrestle biz for 14 days free and 20% off your subscription. It's like two cups of coffee a month, essentially, here we're talking, and we're giving you a discount on that. Empira wants to hook you up big. Launch your business plan faster and with less effort than ever before with Empira.

Hey, guys, need to call a quick time out here. I want to tell your listeners what I've been telling my listeners over at OU to know for a while now about all the cool things happening over at ads free shows.com. An all new edition of The Insiders is here as Conrad welcomes David Zoddy, the man behind so many iconic video packages as WWF fans grew up on, including one that left Vince in tears. You got it. And Conrad, I swear, I walked outside the studio and Vince was sitting down on the concrete floor, crying hysterically. Just saying thank you. Thank you. Wow. Thank you. I went up to talk, but he says, good job.

Can I want to see it. 15 minutes later in the stairwell, Vince is still sitting down in a difference by now, crying saying thank you. Thank you. Special guest host Raven sat in for Jake the Snake Roberts on the Snake Pit, looking back 25 years on his rivalry with DDP and an interesting new member of the flock.

Jimmy Hart comes up to me one day and goes, Hey, Hulk would like a favor. I go, what is it? He goes, he'd like you to put a horse in the flock. I'm like, sure. I'm not going to say no. But it became a running gag like, Like Jericho and Conan, we used to, three of us used to hang out together and call ourselves the triumvirate of useless information.

And so they were like, you know, wait, did you put Horace Hogan into flock because he's Hogan's nephew? I'm like, what? He's Hogan's nephew? I had no idea. That's just a small taste of what we got waiting for you. With four levels to choose from, see for yourself why ads-free shows is the best value in wrestling today. Sign up now atadsfreeshows.com. Fight Plus is the ultimate digital platform for live sports and entertainment, and they're now offering a free seven-day trial at TryFight.com. Fight Plus is packed with a premium live event schedule over a thousand hours of live

action every year in a library of more than 4,000 hours on demand, plus exclusive content you can't get anywhere else. Fight is a great partner of ours. They support us, so let's support them. Give that free seven-day trial a shot. you'll be a member for life. That's tryfight.com. T-R-Y-F-I-T-E.com.

And I want to make clear what I was saying about the passion thing. I don't think that you need to have an extensive background knowledge on who won the 27th G-1-5. I wasn't picking on you, John. I wasn't picking on you, John. But what I'm saying is I think passion is developed over time. And if you have natural instinct for something and you can, adapt on the fly, you can learn a craft, right? And that goes beyond

wrestling. You can learn a craft if you have the natural. Look at Kurt Angle. Kurt Angle didn't understand professional wrestling at all. Was he a wrestling fan, by the way? Did he grow up watching? He wasn't. He wasn't at all. Kurt Angle, this is a great story, Eric. I don't know if you've ever heard heard this. Kurt Angle, the first time he went into

a contract negotiation with WWB was right after he won the gold medal. They offered him a mega contract. And he goes, well, I'm never going to lose a match, right? I've heard that's right and they're like they're like uh all right see you later bud and he came back years later for significantly less money because then he learned it and he was like okay now i can apply my craft but eric to your point uh taking directly from wwee here as far as their next in line program goes it says all athlete partnerships will feature access to the state of the art w e performance center in Orlando florida in addition to resource across the organization including brand building media training, communications, live event promotion, creative writing, and community relations. Upon completion of the NIL program, select athletes may earn an exclusive opportunity to be offered a WWE contract. So to me, you're laying the groundwork for success there on a physical standpoint,

but also you're giving people an opportunity to maybe fall in love with the craft. And not necessarily just the in ring part of it, but maybe you fall in love with the business side, or maybe you fall in love with the branding or the creative side. Maybe you don't. Maybe you don't. You make it big in the NFL and all that media training and understanding and all of that is going to make you a bigger star faster in the NFL. 100%. It's a no who loses in this scenario.

You know, AJ, you said to me you believe that pro wrestling needs more crossover guys. It does. More so than indie guys. Why do you believe that? Because, I mean, I grew up in the 90s, man. I grew up when the top of the top wrestlers in the world were the Undertaker and the rock and Stone Cold and Triple H and Gold and Goldberg and Kevin Nash and Scout Hall and Hulk Hogan. You know what I'm saying? These guys, when you see them walking around, you're like, holy shit, that guy is a killer.

That guy will kick my ass, right? Like, there's nothing wrong with smaller wrestlers. I mean, there's nothing wrong with being a smaller wrestler. But at the end of the day, like, when you're selling this bigger-than-life event, Roman Rains looks the part. You know what I'm saying? Like, he looks like the guy that should be on the poster. Brock Lesnar looks like the guy that should be on the poster.

And it's not because Brock Lesnar was an all-American national champion wrestler, and Robin Rains was a college football player and played the CFL, I believe. Like, it's not just because they're athletes, it's because they have the stature and the size and the ability to do things that other people can't do. There are a lot of wrestlers that can't do a shooting star press, shooting star press. Now, granted, when last time he did it, he broke his neck, unfortunately, but he did it, Brock Leicester did it many, many other times before that. And he is a specimen of an athlete.

We need more specimens. We need more attractions. We don't need more five-star matches. There's five-star matches every week. There's four-star matches every week. Everybody can wrestle. Wrestling, you should be able to wrestle. It's like, to me, focusing on the wrestling of football,

I mean, so focus on the wrestling aspect, the in-ring aspect of wrestling is like focusing on tackling in football. Tackling is important. Tackling is very, very important. But tackling isn't everything. your quarterback don't got to tackle. You're not going to not hire Tom Brady because he can't tackle. He can do other things that bring everyone to the table.

Same thing with your receiver core, your running backs. But you know, you got defensive players and their job is to tackle. But even in that, BBs, they're not really there to tackle. They're there to cover receivers. Everybody has a unique job. And that's how wrestling should be. I'm not saying that there shouldn't be people who their in-ringability is the main thing of what they bring to the table,

but that should be those specific guys. It shouldn't be every single person. Because when it's every single person, and that's all you're worried about is the wrestling, then you can't build the stars. Like, AJ, honestly God, you don't know this, but you're echoing the psychology and the philosophy of guys like Vern Gagne.

Guys like Bill Watts, because they believed that, now, they were an extreme in one sense, okay? And I think what today's wrestling is is almost an extreme in another sense is that there's so much emphasis on the five-star matches. I hate to even say five stars because it's giving some kind of fucked up credit to Dave Meltzer. But even in the multi-star matches that people aspire to have talent now, that's, it's too much. We see too much of it. And guess what? It doesn't matter anymore. It's not moving the needle.

No. We see it so obviously going to the greatest sushi bar in the world and having great sushi, 365 nights a year, five years in a row. You just don't care anymore. It's not special anymore. And the old school philosophy that, believe it or not, AJO is echoing in this modern age as a product of this modern era is that you need a better balance.

You need those larger-than-life characters, which is what AJ is saying, athletic, badass looking, they walk into a room. You know that person is a special human being. And you assume that special human being is most likely a football player or a wrestler. You don't know which, because you don't know who he is. But God damn, get out of his way. Don't piss him off. That's an attraction. That's a larger-than-life thing that the average human is going to go, whoa, who is that?

And that's what you're building upon. But when everybody's basically 510 and 180 and basically does almost the same thing, but one extreme version of it or the next till they can't, then none of it matters anymore. Just look at the rock, man. Like the rock is who my favorite of all time. He's who I model everything that I do after. He's the biggest star that wrestling has ever produced.

The man did the kickoff to the Super Bowl. Okay. He's the biggest star that wrestling has ever produced Bar none. How many five-star matches does the Rock have? Oh, yeah, there's that. The top 50 professional wrestlers for their in-ring ability of all time. Rock probably doesn't make that list, and he's my favorite ever.

But if you make a list of the top five stars of all time and you don't have Rock at least number one or two, then you actually don't know what you're talking about. Well, and I will say this, the standard for... I love you, AJ. I can't wait to meet you in person, man. I told you you'd hit it right off with America. I knew you would. But I think the industry standard from, at least from a fan expectation, has changed in that they do expect a big man or whatever, someone like yourself even, to be able to quote unquote work, right? And be able to have a stronger work rate, just because, the way that people consume wrestling work rate has become more of an emphasis, regardless of whether

it's from a five foot 10 guy or whether it's from Lance Archer, who's seven feet tall. There is an expectation. And what I will say is when those crossover athletes are given time to develop, I think they can become very good in ring talent. I think Roman Raines has become a very good in ring talent and storyteller. And there are other examples. The Rock is a great example of that, who became a very good, he could work, you know, like, okay, maybe he didn't have the best sharpshooter, but he could work and he could do a lot of great stuff. So I do think there's a lot to that. I guess my big thing that I hear about AJ all the time is just it boils back down to that passion and knowledge. Passion and knowledge is everything when it comes to a crossover guide.

I heard a story about someone that came into the PC around the same time as you did. You might know who it is. I won't name names, but they were a college football player who got signed and they were telling people backstage that they didn't know what a baby face was, they didn't know what heel was, and they said their favorite active professional wrestler was Rick Flair. So

that put a target on their back right away and they never developed and they eventually got released. So is there any, from your experience, do you get saddled with any sort of negative connotation when there is

lacking that knowledge to that degree? I mean, I don't care. Like, to me, that doesn't matter. Like, I'm also not one of the good old boys in the back. So I don't know. I'm not to touch someone and say, oh, man, you don't know. You shouldn't be here because you don't,

you didn't grow up a wrestling fan. Like, I don't feel that way. Like, there's a lot of people that have become big stars in the business that didn't grow up wrestling fans like you just mentioned Kurt Angle like Alexa Bliss you know what I'm saying like these like Jade Cargill you know I'm saying like these people exist so like to me that doesn't matter um like but do other people put too much emphasis on whether you like your extent of wrestling knowledge absolutely I mean they made us, at my tryout, they made us take a test to test your wrestling knowledge

for your sweet knowledge. What did that look like? It was literally like a three-page test. There was like multiple choices. There was fill in the blanks. There were, I got a, you know, me being me, I got 100%. You know, what of the, one of the trickiest ones was like, it was like there was still in the blanks.

And there was someone breezy. It was like, can you smell? And then you have a feeling artist. And then like, but whatever was like, it said, my time is. And I'm like, my time is now, John Cena. OK, I got it, right? So like, that was the only one I really had to really think about it.

But I think John Cena, I think you can't see me or, you know, hustle loyalty, respect. I don't, I didn't really think my time is now, even though that is the name of the song. But then Eric, John, is the anti-example of that john cina yeah he played like low-level college football but he trained to become a professional wrestler went out to rick bass out west and wanted to become a pro wrestler and now he has become a big crossover star so i'm going to put you in a hypothetical situation people let's be

clear people shit on john cina's in ring work all the time that they do that's you're at you're not wrong so john cina is a perfect example of both of your points of view in this case right so so eric i want to pitch this to you, if you were hypothetically leading talent evaluation in a company right now, what would you be looking for in terms of genetic makeup of talent to fill out your roster? Look, often I make a mistake by using the television industry in general or the movie business in general as a metaphor to try to make a point. People think, oh, that's all I think about is Hollywood and television. It's not true. But there's certain things that fucking work. Right. You know, if you've got a great script and you've got a spot in this script, you're going to cast for an actor or an actress that has the look and the presence to fit the role that was created on paper. That's called casting. So I would apply the same type of thing in wrestling if I was evaluating talent. What am I looking for? What is my roster need? Does my roster need another five foot, eight inch guy that's going to go out and have Dave Mellon?

other matches, you know, five nights a week. No, I got 24 of those. Okay, what do I need? There's got to be a hole in this roster because wrestling isn't one thing. It's a lot of little things to a lot of people. It's like a wrestling buffet, Dusty Rhodes quote. You've got to have a little bit of something for everybody. Okay, what's missing? I need a big guy that looks like a killer. Okay, let's cast for those guys. Now I get a room full of those guys in a room. Which one of those guys am I going to pick? I'm going to look first for charisma. I'm going to joke. with them. I'm going to fuck with him. I'm going to try to make them uncomfortable to see how they react to that. If they've got a great sense of humor and are not intimidated or made

angry and you're just rolling with it, okay, you two that roll with it, you're going over here in my office. The rest of you guys go with that guy over there in a corner. He's going to teach you some basic shit. And I'm going to take the two guys that fit the casting that have the charisma or at least an indication of it, which is confidence, a sense of humor. Yeah, really those two things. If you've got a lot of self-confidence

in a sense of humor, you're not going to let somebody you don't know intimidates you or fuck with you or make you feel uncomfortable. You're going to roll with that shit. That's charisma. Now I got some clay I can mold. Fast track.

That's how I would go about it. I love that. I love that analogy. I think the scripting analogy, I mean, rather the casting analogy works perfectly in a situation like that. That's just people like people don't understand how big a different like if you're if your guy that's supposed to be your killer just looks like everybody else then he's just

like everybody else. I mean, Neil Patrick Harris is a great actor, but if he was cast to be Captain America, do we have as successful a Marvel series? I mean, he looks like Chris Evans a little bit in the face, but like they both blonde hair and they both, you know, chisel jaw, but it's not the same. It's not the same. Yeah.

And I think it's important to remember, guys, that crossover athletes have been involved in professional wrestling dating back decades, decades of Oahu McDaniel and Ernie Ladd. This is not a novel concept. They had an NFL versus WWB Battle Royal, Ladd. He did. They did.

Russ Francis. Russ Francis. played for the uh he played for new england and he played for san francisco 49ers he was in that russomania he lived used to live down the road from me here in cody wyoming we talked a lot about wrestling and and professional football i just think that some people tend to overthink that and they take it as a sign of disrespect to the indies that oh well because the wwe system wants to put an emphasis on crossover guys now it means that they're disrespecting the indies i don't think that's it at all

And could they use some top talent to come out of the indie? Sure. I mean, AJ, you and I have talked about him at length. Carmelo Hayes, look what Carmelo Hayes is doing right now in WWE. He's an indie guy, but you and I both agree he's someone who could be a top star in WW. But you can't have 20 Carmelo Hayes either. No, you can't. And you know what?

I hear a lot of people say they say, well, you know, they came from the NFL so he didn't pay his dues. First of all, why are you worried about what I'm doing? That's the first thing. Mind your damn business. Second of all, I did pay my dues. And I'm just speaking from personal experience. Like, if you say that, oh, he went straight from the NFL to WWE, he didn't pay his dues by going on the Indies, right?

Let's just pretend I didn't go on the Indies for a year. And I went straight from the NFL to WWE. The NFL is my dues. College football is my dues. High school football is my dues. By doing those things, I put myself in a position to be able to transition into the WWE. Those are the dues. Goldberg's dues was playing for the Atlanta Falcons. Those are his dues. Right. If you, if it's so easy to do, why don't you do it?

You know, I think, AJ, you're honestly God, we're brothers from a different mother, but this, I think part of it is now this is going to this is going to get really philosophical but the whole idea that you have to pay your dues in wrestling in my opinion is this holdover from when wrestling used to be a carnival act very difficult to break into the business and if you didn't join the club the official way and you get anointed by somebody that's already in the club and pay your dues, which basically meant getting abused for a while. If you didn't do it that way, then you didn't deserve to be in this industry.

That philosophy, that holdover, just like the term mark in the way people use it because it makes them sound like they've been in the wrestling business. The whole idea of terminology, it's one of the reasons why I can't stand certain people in the internet wrestling community. It's because they use a language in their presentation and the narrative. that makes it suggest that they were actually in the business when they weren't. But yet at the same time, have this disdain for anybody that didn't quote unquote pay their dues.

Well, none of you fuckered paid your dues. You're all just hangar-ons, the people that write about wrestling. But they're still in the narrative, this holdover that if a young talent comes along and they didn't come up to way they're supposed to that they don't belong in the business. I just think it's horseshit. I agree. I think this has been a great conversation, guys. and we are so appreciative of your perspective here, AJ.

Either of you guys, is there anything else you'd like to add on this to bow tie everything? I'm going to people talk about NFL. You know, we talk about guys in a wrestling business. They've been in the wrestling business for 15, 20, 25, 30 years and sometimes more and are hugely successful at the top of their game. In the NFL, the life expectancy, I don't know anything about defensive ends. Your role was a defensive end, right? Yeah, I play D.N. and all the way to nose.

I like to say that I'm the only. person ever to start a game at zero technique to nine technique you know saying no big deal but honestly got five five years in the NFL when you think about probably only one percent of kids that get drafted into college because of their football talents only about one percent of those get drafted into the NFL and only about a half a percent of those end up making a career that last more than 18 months. So five years in the NFL. And AJ, you weren't even drafted, right? No, I was undrafted, which makes it even harder. It's crazy because, like, to me, like, people always, like, their big thing on me was like, oh, well, like, for example, I played five seasons

in the NFL. I was technically in the NFL for six years, but I played, I was on six different teams, right? So people were like, oh, you kept getting cut. I'm like, yeah, I kept getting cut because I was nobody's boy because I was undrafted. Nobody had to stand on the table for me. But I kept getting signed, too. I kept being signed because the film spoke for itself, right? And getting signed by teams who had draft picks and choices and trades to make. So you kind of leap to log over those guys.

Bingo. Bingo. Well, you're my favorite New York giant of all time, A.J. Francis, just saying that, we're so appreciative of having you here on Strict. business man anything you'd like to throw out there and plug i know you got some shows coming up yeah big show july third at the sausage castle there you feel free to come down john feel free to come down it's the wildest party house in america it's been on netflix's tiger king it's been on vice i had it on my show w w wb's most wanted treasures it's been on music videos with post malone and walka flaka and

And Joyner Lucas, it is the craziest party house in America. It's owned by my boy Mike Busey. They do weekend long parties once a month, and he puts on a bunch of different events, like a scavenger hunt for $1,000 and, you know, a bunch of different parties and stuff. And one of the events that he puts on is SCW, also Sausage Castle Wrestling, which I am the Sausage Castle Wrestling champion. And I got to see this in some point. Eric, you want to see it?

I'll show it to you. This is the Sausage Castle World Champion, A.J. Francis, right there. Okay. I made a joke when he posted that picture. I go, man, I feel like I'm right back in an NFL locker room, just seeing a whole bunch of skin there. And you are living life, man. Two-time SCW champion.

We got a show called Hitsville USA coming on July 3rd. There's an after party right after. Celebrating America's birthday. We got a party the next day on July 4th. Same thing. You know, we're going to have a bunch of different people on the show. It's going to be the hipmakers meet to Houdi Miles, Brianna Brandy, versus Chris Bay, Leon Ruffin, and Josiah Williams.

We're going to have a women's death match. Sawyer Rack versus Kylan King for the SCW Death Match Championship. Never had a death match championship before. We're introducing it at Hitzville, USA. There's going to be a battle royal that we're having with wrestlers and social media influencers and professional athletes. One of my boys, Brent Grimes, four-time NFL Pro Bowler. He's going to be in the battle royal. You know, we got a lot of cool things coming July 3rd so you can get your early tickets at Mikebucy.com slash wrestling.

Or you can show up, you know, go on my social media at A.J. Francis 410 on all social media. And you can see I'm posting flyers all the time. You can get your advanced tickets. or you can come day of, get them at the door, and have a hell of a time. The after party, I mean, there's no other wrestling show in the world where you can drink and see beautiful women dancing. You know what I'm saying? There's no other show in the world.

It's one of one. You got to get out there, Eric. You got to get out there. I'm telling you, AJ, all you need is a 1-900 line, and you will have left Gene Ocullen in the dust. A great conversation. conversation with AJ Francis. We want to thank him again. He's crushing it right now in WWE as top Dala. And I have no doubt that he's going to have a very successful

2023, even as we sit here towards the end of April. I can't believe we're already at that mark. Make sure, folks, if you're in the West Coast, head on out there, Fresno, Eric Bischoff and I are going to be there. It is going to be an absolute blast. The home of the Fresno Grizzlies Pro Wrestling Night, April 30th, a live edition of 83 weeks in Strictly Business. It's going to be a fantastic time. Also, if you'd like to get involved with Strictly Business, we want you to partner up with us like our friends, Adam Pira, you hear all the love we give them. We give your business that same love as well.

Advertised witheric.com. Get your product or your business out there in front of thousands of listeners and viewers every single week. Eric and I are going to be back with you next week. in living color right here on Strictly Business. We'll see you next time.