83 Weeks with Eric Bischoff - Strictly Business with Eric Bischoff #30: The Wrestling Belt Business, WWE & AEW Ratings, CM Punk

Episode Date: June 9, 2023

On this week's edition of "Strictly Business," Eric Bischoff and Jon Alba are joined by Dan from Belts by Dan! He explains the business of wrestling belts, what goes into manufacturing one, and the increased interest outside of wrestling. Plus, Eric and Jon discuss the LIV Golf/PGA merger, WWE and AEW ratings, and CM Punk's impact on Collision. Special thanks to this week's sponsors! Manscaped- Get 20% Off and Free Shipping with the code WRESTLEBIZ at Manscaped.com. Fite+- Fite+ is the ultimate digital platform for live sports and entertainment, and they are now offering a free 7-day trial at TryFite.com FOLLOW ALL OF OUR SOCIAL MEDIA at https://83weekslinks.com/ Stop throwing your money on rent! Get into a house with NO MONEY DOWN and roughly the same monthly payment at SaveWithConrad.com On AdFreeShows.com, you get early, ad-free access to more than a dozen of your favorite wrestling podcasts, starting at just $9! And now, you can enjoy the first week...completely FREE! Sign up for a free trial - and get a taste of what Ad Free Shows is all about. Start your free trial today at AdFreeShows.com If your business targets 25-54 year old men, there's no better place to advertise than right here with us on Strictly Business. You've heard us do ads for some of the same companies for years...why? Because it works! And with our super targeted audience, there's very little waste. Go to AdvertiseWithEric.com now and find out more about advertising with Strictly Business. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

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or money out of your pocket to save thousands with save withconrad.com. Find out how much money you can save right now at save with Conrad.com. How's it going, everyone, it's time for another edition of Strictly Business here with Eric Bishaw, presented to you by the ad-free shows and the podcast, Heat Networks. I, of course, am John Alba. We've got a very special episode today with a very special guest to be revealed in just a little bit. But before we bring him in, I got to bring in the man of the hour.

My co-host here on Strictly Business, Mr. Eric Bischoff, Eric on location coming to us from Florida. How are you, man? I am doing well, just in Clearwater, Florida. I'm here on Mrs. B and I are here to watch our grandson Whalen for a few days while our son and daughter-in-law are out of town at a wedding. So kind of digging it, you know, doing the whole grandpa thing. But I have to tell you, when I'm warned everybody right off the bat, I'm freaking crabby tonight, like really crabby. And part of it is because I never do these episodes in the evening. I always do them early in the day because that's when I'm at my most effervescent.

My personality is light and bubbly and positive. But after about four or five o'clock, the dark side starts coming out. So I just hope you're ready and I hope our audience is ready. Well, that is a warning for sure, especially for me as well. But I do want to start off. I know it's a little bit of a somber note. We lost a legend this week. Sheaky Baby, the Iron Sheik, passed away at 81 years old,

a larger than life figure in the world of pro wrestling. I'm not sure how much interaction you had with him over the years, but I'd love to hear your thoughts on the passing of WWE Hall of Famer, the Iron Sheik. well first let me say that you know for the iron sheet to have lived such an amazing life experienced amazing things i mean he's a walking talking walking talking book of history not only in wrestling but if you think about where he came from and how he got to the united states and what he became what he became in a period of time when iran was you know kind of universally looked upon as the the ultimate enemy in this country sheik was able to become an

american hero in a way an american icon for sure if not an american hero and i think that's amazing in and of itself but interestingly enough john um when i got here to tampa uh friday you know spent the weekend you know connecting with my my kids and our grandson obviously but sunday night garret and i stayed up late after everybody went to bed and we watched the A&E biography series, and they had a biography series on the Sheik. And when it was over, I looked at Garrett and said, man, next time I might cross paths with this guy, I'm going to offer to take about the dinner or, you know, buy him a beer or whatever.

And I just want to sit and spend some time with him because to answer your question, I never really, we cross paths. and he may have been in WCW for a minute or two while I was there, but never really had a chance to, other than to say hello and introduce myself, get to know him. And that's my loss. Definitely my loss.

And amazing, you know, and I'm looking at some of the responses I see on social media from people that really knew the Sheik and universally well-loved, well respected and I wish I would have gotten to know him when I had the opportunity. I actually got Teddy Long, who I stay in touch with Teddy consistently over the years. And Teddy Long reached out to me and told me before it was publicized. And Teddy was tight.

They were very good friends. And I, you know, I feel bad for Teddy. I feel bad, obviously for the Sheeks family. And for the legion of fans that he has around. around the world. What an amazing career. What an amazing guy. Love him, hate him. Hopefully you hated him because that's what he was making his money from. Godspeed. Did you and Hogan ever have any conversations about the Iron Sheik? Because Hogan's so intertwined to the Iron Sheeks' rise to fame. And then eventually he was so important to helping elevate Hulk Hogan to the level that he

became no yes and no i mean a lot of the conversations that we would have and it would usually be in a group you know we never sat down and cracked a beer and talked about the iron chic you know that i don't want to suggest that but you know in a group and kind of swapping stories and telling stories there were always chic stories there and you know a couple years ago um i had the privilege of having haxaw jim dougan and his wife to my house for dinner uh they were there as part of a celebrity golfing event that I was involved in in Cody, Wyoming. And Haxon's wife flew in and just eagerly participated and kind of melted right into the crowd in the locals.

But I was also at the same time, Conrad and I were hosting a radio show, a local radio show at Cody. We wanted to give that a try for a couple months to see how that worked. And since Haxall was in Cody at the time, I invited him onto the show because Hacksaw, Jim Duggett, is one of the best storytellers I've ever been around. Absolutely. He is, he's got so many great stories, and he's so entertaining. He's such a fantastic storyteller, and I hadn't heard, you know, firsthand, you know,

I'd heard about the incident when Haxaw and Sheik got busted. I'd probably heard it a million times, right? But I never heard it directly from Haxaw. And when Hacksaw Jim Duggan tells that story, it's an entirely different story. story. You know, it's a difference between reading the premise of a movie in like three paragraphs and sitting down and watching a two and a half hour, you know, Academy Award winner. It was such a blast. And it just, you know, it just made me realize, you know, you cross past with people, but you never really get to know them. Yeah. And occasionally, there are people that

you cross paths with in your life and you really wish you to gotten to know them. And Sheik is one of those people. A legend in every respect in the industry. I thought everything you said there was just great. So we send our condolences to the friends and family of the Iron Sheik and certainly not someone who will be forgotten anytime soon in wrestling lore. Now, before we do bring in our guest, Eric, I know there were a few things in the business of the business

and maybe even a little bit outside the business that you'd like to discuss. One thing outside the business, I'll throw out you right away, Because it's something we've talked about a little bit here on Strictly business was LiveGolf and the Saudis and that CW television deal that they had. And they were once in conversations with WWE, the PIF to purchase them. Well, we found out this week that the Saudis and Liv essentially formed one giant super tour with the PGA and DP tour to create this gigantic entity, a merger. if you will, the likes of which we've really never seen in American professional sports. The TV rights side of things is still to be determined. The TV partners of the PGA were completely unaware of this happening.

And now the Saudis will have a major inway on American television through the PGA tour. A colossal move in the sports and sports media landscape. Any thoughts on that? I don't know if I have as many thoughts as I have questions. Like, who does PGA have their TV deal with? And I'm saying this because I don't follow the PGA nor the sports and, you know, television business. But not to challenge you, but I'm curious, do you happen to know who? Yeah, I mean, they have partnerships with CBS, with ESPN, all the major networks for airing all their

So specifically, do we know when any of those agreements are coming due? I think a lot of them were relatively recently refreshed, and they have $800 million plus invested in them. It's going to be interesting to see how their respective TV partnerships react to this news, because it is still a little bit of a hot item, right? I mean, Saudi advertisers, public opinion, eh, it's a little volatile, you know, and it's ironic because if you look at the Saudi investment portfolio, Warren Buffett, or Saudi has Warren Buffett or Warren Buffett has Saudi stock, whichever, they're in business together, right? A lot of major corporations are funded in not in large part, but in small parts. Biden, the Saudi government, and it just kind of flies under the radar.

But once it becomes something that's on the public airwaves in the public domain, so speak, then things get a little different. It's going to be interesting, especially in light of what we've seen with Target, bud light. There seems to be an energy in a broader, spectrum of the public than we've seen in the past that are now starting to react in voting with their pocketbooks. It's an interesting time. And I'm not here. I don't have a crystal ball. I'm curious. I'm intellectually curious to see how this is going to play in the mass media

universe it's pretty wild to think that we've talked about in the past where wwee was kind of a trailblazer with leading the way with the wwee network and over the top and how they laid groundwork for other people to follow suit after that at wwe was one of the first major entities in the u.s to publicly go into business with the p i f with their deals back in 2018 i think now we're not that far off i put us out on Twitter the other day. I don't think we're that far off, Eric, from a major American sports franchise being partially, if not majority owned by the Saudis. I think that is now

on the road to becoming normalized where we'll see more of this, just due to the cash flow, normalized in our sports and entertainment culture. Well, I mean, how much is money, money normalizes everything, right? Money normalizes some of the corrupt political activity that we're seeing being revealed every four to half for five minutes money has always talked and money always will talk but because money always talks i'll go back to what we've seen happen to anheiser bush what we've seen happen to target are is any established mainstream media and when i say mainstream i'm talking about network and cable because cable's been around for a minute so i consider it to be pretty mainstream are they going to be willing to be willing to

to risk their fragile, fragile advertising base because so much streaming dollars are going, or so many advertising dollars are going to streaming? Are your traditional sports outlets going to be willing to risk what we've seen happen in a couple of other situations recently? Are they going to be willing to risk the public backlash? And I don't think it's going to be all or nothing, but I think there will be some advertisers that for whatever reason are going to be uncomfortable. And many of them won't because it always comes down to dollars, right? If the money talks, everybody, if the money's on stage playing the music, everybody in the world in the corporate world will dance. That's just how it works. Politics, television, every other

form of entertainment. It's pretty wild. WWE just held that premium live event in Saudi Arabia. Nobody even bats an eye, whereas five years ago it was the biggest controversy in the world. Well, there's a lot of things going on that are like that, right? There's a lot of things that we accept now that we

wouldn't have accepted two years ago or three years ago. It's happening across our culture. It's not just happening in wrestling or in golf. It's a lot of things have become very normalized in a very short period of time. And by the way, I don't think they're normalized.

I just think they're being forced. And I think when you're forcing an issue, the more money you have behind you, the more likely it is you're going to be successful with it. Interesting. Interesting. Well, that's just something to keep an eye on because who knows if that will permeate the wrestling space even more. I think it's going to permeate a lot of different spaces in sports and entertainment

culture here in the United States, maybe movies, maybe television. It's such a fascinating trend that I think it's just going to, going to pick up even more and more momentum over the course of the next one. And when you think about it, this isn't new, right? Look at what's going on in China. I mean, the normalization of relationships with China started. I remember watching it because I've always been very much involved in current events and as a result by default politics. But I remember when Richard Nixon made his historic trip to China, that was the beginning of normalizing a relationship. And look where we are now. All of our pharmaceuticals, many of our, not all, but many of our pharmaceuticals,

a lot of the components for technology that we rely upon for national defense, for food. You know, you look at how much food is imported from China and pharmaceuticals that we are absolutely 100% dependent upon right now with China. That all began with Richard Nixon, you know, taking a destroy flight and shaking some hands in China. So the evolution of this, and I'm not saying it's a good thing or a bad thing, by the way. I'm not taking a position on that. I kind of deep down inside, I think the more we expose our respective cultures to each other,

the less threatening it becomes. Because I think all, I'm going to go on a soapbox. I think all bias and racism, not all, most comes from a place of ignorance. If you don't understand something, a culture, a religion, whatever, the more likely you are to be defensive to it and opposed to it and want to get away from it. but it's one of the things that I think traveling the world is such a you know for for young people especially you know the more you can immerse yourself in different cultures and ways of life the more you realize there's really not that much difference between people right and I think in a way and I'm not here to put WWE over but because I'm surely I'm 100% positive when I say it was an economic decision it wasn't a cultural decision but but But it's interesting how WWE has been on the forefront of so many things, whether it be breaking the territory system and going national, becoming one of the most successful forms of entertainment on cable television.

And as cable television involved, it became pay-per-view. W.W. F at the time, E, was one of the most successful franchises in the pay-per-view industry. And now you look at new media, the digital world. WWE is one of the leading global franchises in the digital space. And here we are now breaking down the live event barriers. And what do we have? WWE, here again, breaking down the barriers, leading the way. And we have something as traditional.

I mean, you talk about traditional. Golf? Can you be any whiter than golf? Can you be any more traditional than golf? Like, even the announcers whisper when the guys are teeing up. Are you kidding me? Are you freaking kidding me? How can you get more traditional than American, or golf?

It's not an American sport, but golf. And here we are. Yeah. I hope there's music and like, you know, onion. fried onion deep fried onion rings and corn dogs and all kinds of shit on the sidelines because then i might even go to a golf event hang out yeah dude golf events are fun as hell i i used to cover the arnold palmer invitational back in bay hill in orlando everyone gets arnold palmer they're out there on the side's beautiful sometimes they're spiked arnold palmers it's a good day out there

and i i'm just so fascinated to see how ingrained the saudi's become in the culture of golf an golf specifically yeah listen i've heard some stories about american golf i almost did i say almost did we were considering doing a reality show with john daly um it it was i can't remember the concept in enough detail to do a good job explaining it here but it was a it was a unique it was a golf reality show and we were looking for collegiate golfers to compete against each other and john daily was going to be the guy who either moved you along or cut you. It was actually a cool idea. And it was all designed to bring a whole different attitude to golf, right?

Because golf is, you know, when you see a goal, you know, when a golfer rises to prominence, typically, and I'm not a golf fan. So you can tell me I'm wrong. And I'll just agree with you. But usually they're in their 30s or 40s and most of them are in their 50s and 60s. And they're, yay, look at that guy. I wanted something that would like get 20. 22 year olds over.

I was looking at that for that other generation of golf. And with John Daly as our kind of executioner, that would have been awesome. And I spent some time with John Daly. Actually, the first time I met John Daly, he had a motorhome behind the original hooters. The first hooters that was ever hooted was here in Tampa, Florida. And John knew the original owners. I believe that. And his deal was they let him park his motorhome out there for free and he would eat,

you know, hooters at night and hang out and drink a couple beers. That explains a lot. That explains a lot. And this is the first guy I ever met in person that was, you know, a professional golfer. He was a hoot, like really fun. But he told me some stories. So this very prim and proper will, manicured, pedicured, hair in place, pillars of the community that are out there representing

the game of golf until they're away, until they party privately. And they're as dark as professional wrestling. There needs to be a dark side of golf because it exists. Evan Husney, do you hear me, brother? Well, and there was this whole controversy too because, you know, the PGA, Jay Monaghan, hand the head of the PGA had taken this moral high ground trying to get his players not to jump at the money for live because i mean he looks like a douchebag oh boy howdy does he and how do you come back from that i watched him on tv last like because it's the business of sports and it does

interest me i don't i if i never see another swing of golf on television for the rest of my life i will not miss it however it is a big business and it's sports and it's media and i'm i'm interested in the behind the scenes of it all. And I watched his interview and I went, man, am I so glad I'm not you. I don't care how much money you make right now. You're going to go home and feel like a dick. No matter what. You may drive home in a Bentley.

You may be pulling up in your driveway and your nine bedroom, 14 bathroom, palatial estate on some lake somewhere. And you're still going to feel like a piece of shit. And there's nothing anybody's going to be able to do about it. It's horrible. It was, it was an interesting situation. Our guest is going to join us in just a couple minutes here, and it's going to be a great episode. But I want to tee up real quick, Eric, before we get into that, really good week for wrestling ratings as a whole.

And, again, some pretty stiff competition, too, the NBA finals going on right now. Last night, as we taped this Vanderpump Rules, the biggest reality show in the world had its... Whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, it's not the biggest reality show in the world. It's the biggest reality show at this moment. No, I'm sorry, I know. Are we going to compare Van der Luck right now at this moment? At this moment on cable. Yeah, that's what I'm saying.

Okay, see how small the world just got for you? We've gone from the biggest reality show in the world to, well, the biggest reality show at this moment on cable TV. Come on now. Well, still, wrestling had a really good week. Smackdown did kill. ratings this week. Two and a half million overall, but the third hour did nearly three million, which was for Roman Raines coronation ceremony that saw the turn of Jay Uso and them kicking him out

officially from the bloodline. A.W. Dynamite did its highest 18 to 49 rating in some time, Monday Night Raw. How many people watch the, because you mentioned the WWE overall audience of 2.4 million with a 2.9 million last quarter hour. How did AEW do? What was there? 903,000 with a 0.33 rating in the demographic. Okay.

How was the NBA finals and vanderpump rules finale? You fucking vandal pump rules. I'm sorry. I'm sorry. That's ridiculous. Yeah, it's number one in such a dismal field of players. I look, 900,000 was a little. little less than they did last last week i think they did 955 last week uh and and i do agree

considering the the competition that was a better than expected number however this is denver the denver nuggets are not the new york nix or excuse me they're not any major team they're Denver who are they playing i don't even know i probably know more about this So Miami Heat. I don't even know. Who are they playing? The Miami Heat. Okay. And Miami Heat came from out of nowhere. They weren't even supposed to be in this thing. And they ended up rallying at the very end. So that's a comeback story. And that's the East Coast team. Miami's a big market. But it wasn't a winning team all year long. Nobody expected them probably even themselves to be there. But NBA finals viewership is not really down from last year. And last year had the Warriors and it's and the Celtics. There was 11, it had an audience of 11.5 million people. What was this time last year? Last year they averaged just over 12. Okay, same thing, give or take.

Rounding error, rounding error. You know, and by the way, just is a, this is a really minuscule side point. Anybody, I don't care if you're a publisher of wrestling news and media, or if you're a dirt sheet writer, and I distinguish between the two, by the way. Or if you're just a fan, just know that because of the nature of Nielsen, when you get movement of 10, 15, 20, 30, 40, even 50,000 viewers, it's kind of a rounding error. This is not exact science.

This is kind of a remotely scientific. extrapolation. They're not real numbers. And little things like weather, local events in big markets, you know, a cable outage, a power outage, and a major market in a large area, all of those things can affect ratings so dramatically that you've got to be a little careful about recognizing small incremental gains or losses as anything other than a blip on the radar. It's good. Clickbait. It's good for wrestling people, you know, wrestling publishers and, you know, news sites and things like that. WW is up this week, you know, or WW is down this week or AEW's up or AEW's down. Keep in mind, these are minor fluctuations that has more to do with the weather than it does anything else.

Yeah, it was like the apocalypse over here in the Northeast the past couple days with the air quality from the Canadian wildfires. It was just absolutely insane. that was dominating the Canadians look manage your forest bitches South Park told us to blame Canada and that's I guess what was going on there manage your forest it's what you need to do if you love all this green stuff then you got to manage it otherwise shit catches on fire real quick I know you had a note that you want to add on the CM Punk collision ticket sales the collision has been struggling a little bit out of the gate with these ticket sales anything you'd like to add a little bit out of the gate could you see you jeep i've okay

you're the opposite of me people here's the thing eric i'm going to say is i hear it all time on twitter i hear it on time on our youtube i try to be fair oh look at these shills conrad's an a w shill johns and a w shill i try to be fair i try to for the sake of our argument and the quality of program that we put on every week, I try to be fair. No, you don't try to be fair. You try to be kind. And there's a difference. Fair is not always kind. Fair sometimes hurts because fair, in order to be fair, one has to be honest. And in order to be honest, you have to be analytical. This was a major show, a brand new show, announced on a major network with what everybody thought was this. huge star and I'm telling you like I've told you from day one this guy is not a star and here's a really funny part of this that I'm thoroughly freaking enjoying is he see him see him has set himself up

for just a dramatic failure he came see and punk came in with all this mystic and he did a good job of creating that mystic and maintaining it. And for that, I have respect. But once he got there, punk didn't deliver. And then he turned into a bitch. And then he turned into something a little darker than just being a bitch and being whiny. And the audience has started to turn against him.

The rabid C and punk fan base has diminished substantially. Now, because of all the Michigas and all the drama and the politics back, stage and the fights and the biting and the dog and the scratching and hair pulling and whatever else went on this just sounds like such a bitch fest to me anyway but because of all that now we're bringing punk back and guess what remember when i told you and i think i told you on this show if i was tony con i would not bring punk to the u k i would establish the fact that i could sell 70 000 tickets without him and they sold 65 000 tickets and then they

announced him and how many additional tickets have they sold 700 like a percent whatever it is it's incremental at best and now they're having a hard time selling out these collision shows with punk as a centerpiece am i right or am i am i am i right when i when i came out and said i took so much heat for this. CM Punk is the most overrated potential. I didn't even say potential. I said he was going to be the biggest financial

flop in wrestling history and I think I'm being proven right every minute of the day. Well, there are still a couple weeks here until collision that you very well could be proven right once those shows start. And for all we know, the first shows

is smashing success and all of a sudden tickets start flying or they don't. And I guess, and I I guess we'll find out. But I do know one thing, Eric, as the summer starts to unfold, is that I want to look real good. I know you want to look good. I know you might be... I always look good, brother.

I mean, you do, but I know that your appearance might be changing a little bit soon. But I know that you can manage it because you and I are both teaming up with our pals over at Manscaped, who we love so much here on Strictly Business. day is right around the corner and i know a lot of you like me your last minute gift givers you probably haven't even gone your father anything yet or the man in your life anything yet well don't worry because manscaped is coming in to save the day you and i both know that that man in your life needs some serious grooming so grab your dad the performance package 4.0 and he will thank you for helping him tame his beast it's a win-win situation for both mom

and dad go to manscape dot com use code wrestle biz that's w r-r-stel B-I-Z for 20% off plus free shipping. Eric Bischoff, I would love to know. How is Manscape keeping you nice and smooth this summer? Well, I'm not going to go into, like, graphic detail because you and I don't know each other all that well. And I'm not sure I'd be into it even if we did. So I'm going to let that go by. But here's what I'm going to say.

I use Manscape. In fact, when I got here to Clearwater, Florida, where my son and his wife live and my grandson. way j um the following morning after we got here garrett and i were sitting up having a cup of coffee and garret's got a big old goatee and a mohawk and he said hey dad you have any more of that manscape product that maybe you could send my way i said dude get your own subscription you're not taking my shit but not only is it a great product now you know there's a bet going on where if I lose that bet, which means that CM Punk, the fragile little thing that he is, actually shows up and actually competes at collision on June, what is it, 17th, that I would shave

my head. And we're going to do it in an ad-free shows event. And we're going to film it. here's what i'm here's what i'm going to posit that means just make you think about position it's a derivative use of the word um we need to figure out some kind of contest where if you subscribe to manscape in order using our promo code russell biz and you order the Manscape product line,

we're going to figure out, once you prove it, you're going to have to email your subscription and let us know that you actually did it. One random person is going to win something really freaking cool. And I'm just thinking about this. I don't want to overcommit, but we're going to do some fun stuff at ad-free shows. And by the way, before we actually shave my head with a razor blade,

we're going to be using the Manscape product. this is going to be a manscape commercial from beginning to end where I get my head shaved by some fan. And by the way, part of that promotion is whoever wins by donating the most money to charity, which is St. Jude, gets to actually shave my head and they'll be doing it with a manescape product. So there you go. That's how much I believe in the product. I'm going to let them shake. John, you get this, right? You get this. You've got a decent head of hair. it's not as good as mine or at least not as good as mine was right but you know what this is like you know i'm going to get my head shaved shaved this is kind of like part of an identity it is

and whose hands would i put my identity into more comfortably than manscaped the answer is nobody for the record this hair is a winner of the 2018 hairy awards for best hair in local news from the New England region given by an organization called Get Goodhead. But I know that you, and that's a shoot, brother. That's a shoot. I love that. But I know that you feel comfortable with Manscaped because the lawnmower 4.0 has that advanced skin safe technology that features a cutting edge ceramic blade to reduce grooming accidents

all in one. And you might ask, how is this lawnmower 4.0 different from other trimmers? Well, this upgraded trimmer includes a multi-function on and off switch that can engage a travel lock. It's a great feature if your father or yourself do a lot of traveling. And I know you certainly do a lot of traveling. I've got it. John, I've got it. Let's hear it.

So if any of our listeners go to Manscape, order using promo code, wrestle biz, we're going to take a picture of me getting my head shaved with Manscape, a lock of my hair we're going to put it in a framed 8 by 10 with the lock of hair autographed by me and ship to you that's all you got to do is free not going to cost you nickel we'll pay for shipping

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Well, Eric, we love to live to enlighten here on Strictly Business, and we're going to have a really cool conversation to cap off this edition of the podcast. We've got Dan Van Outst here from Belts by Dan. dot com and leather by dan.com. Dan, thanks so much for joining us here on Strictly Business. Hey, guys. Thanks for having me. You can see the leather behind Dan. This is a professional belt maker in his own right, and he's been featured by just about every single major company there is. So why don't you tell everyone out there just a little bit about your business and how you got into making belts? Yeah, it's a pretty unusual hobby or turns into a business. So just like,

like anything, you start off as a fan and the replica belts, which is how most of the collectors get started. And back then, we were really pretty much a small group on the old Yahoo groups. This was way before Facebook and social media took over. And we would buy and trade belts, and I would get these replica belts. And they never come in the mail as they described. There's always something wrong with it. The paint is wrong. The straps are messed up. It's missing a snap. So after a while, I would buy belts cheap. I'd try to do some repairs to them, and then I would sell them off to make a few extra bucks and then reinvest that money, get more belts, fix more belts, sell more belts.

And eventually got to the point where some people started asking me if I could fix up real belts. And it was like, I never really had a real belt before. And then I got started with that. And it all snowballed from there. I got a reputation of somebody who could find belts you need, somebody who can make belts you need and somebody who could fix anything. And it's like, well, I really haven't made a belt yet. Why are you telling? And people said, well, you have enough knowledge. Just try it. And it's like,

well, okay. And I did. And, you know, the first few belts I made were pretty bad, had a lot of mistakes. But it's a very steep learning curve to try to learn metalwork, plating, all of the stuff that goes into this. Like, YouTube wasn't as great of a resource back. then. It was kind of like being a magician where you needed somebody who was already established to mentor you and kind of give you the tips and tricks. Otherwise, you're going to be spending thousands of dollars through trial and error trying to figure out how the stuff on TV is actually made. All right, Dan, let me jump in here. Let me jump in here. I want to know, like, what was the first belt you wanted to buy? Like, the first time you went, I can want to buy. I want to buy.

belt because like belts are cool whose belt did you buy the first belt i wanted to buy my first live pay-per-view was summer slam 91 in madison square garden and i was a huge brett heart fan and when brett won the icy title like that always stuck with me that was that was like the belt that really cemented my fandom not only in wrestling but as in belts so fast forward the first real handmade belt I purchased was the classic WWF Intercontinental belt made by Reggie Barks. And where did it go from there? It's like, okay, I want to know who your first girlfriend was, but how did that end and who was the second girlfriend? Well, after that, I became kind of associated with a beltmaker named Joe Marshall at the time. He had one,

one of his assistants on the Yahoo group, and I started chatting that person up and became friendly. And he offered me some of the belts that J-Mar was making at the time. So I started purchasing some random belts from J-Mar, not necessarily belts that I wanted, but just because they were rare and I was getting good prices on them. And I was thinking business-wise, like I could sell them and flip them. So give me a range here. So when you could buy these belts at a good price, what was a good price back then? back then for a real belt we were paying like 600 700 800 800 dollars a belt and we were turning

around and flipping them for 1200 thinking you know you know $400 you know 20 years ago was a pretty good deal coke dealers don't do that right right and you know you don't get to double your money on one transaction no no you don't not unless you're selling ring use belts and you know that ship has long sailed but yeah you know there were there was a few years years there where, you know, the ring used belts flooded and I was one of the people lucky enough to have a hand in moving a bunch of them. And there were, there was some good money to be made there. Eric, were you involved with the commissioning of new belts for WCW? And if so, do you look for? No, you weren't. No, and that's one of the reasons I was so excited when you

mentioned, John, that you were able to, you know, connect us with, with DM. Because admittedly, wasn't interested in apple at the time you know nobody wants to admit that because it makes you sound like a real moron but even in my case i just didn't see a market for the belts i didn't see any value in them other than as we needed for television and live events and so forth i never thought there'd be this hidden value in belts i never saw the nostalgia factor i wish they would have because I could have, like, ripped off dozens of them. Dan, you and I, you and I could be splitting a condo on the beach somewhere in my six months out of the year. It's like, you take first six months, I'll take the next six months, right?

Yeah. But, no, I never saw, I never saw that market coming. And good for you, Dan, that you did. That's having your ear to the ground, man. That's commendable. Yeah, I was, I was lucky enough to be surrounded by people who were kind of in on the ground floor at the time. So back in the day, before Facebook, before all the internet, most of us fans would get together at wrestling conventions. So there was a few times a year where you would see these people and then you might email them the rest of the year.

But that's how really how this started. You would go to these wrestling conventions and a lot of the retired wrestlers would have belts at their table and offer, you know, $5, take a picture with the belt or, you know, take a picture with me of the belt. And it got to the point where you'd say, hey, you know, I would like to purchase that. Would you ever consider selling it? And some of the wrestlers would give you crazy looks and like just blow you off thinking, you know, you're just a kid or a fan. And then you get other wrestlers who would throw you ridiculous amounts just to see, you know, how much of a mark you are and how much they can get out of you. And then every once in a while you should run a wrestling company. If you think selling belts is bad, you should run a wrestling company.

Yeah. Right. And their marks are still out there. People are still paying them. ridiculous amounts of money. It's never going to stop. Right. And, you know, every once in a while you hit that one wrestler who was just honest or unfortunately for them, they were down on their luck and they just needed money for something. And they'd say, yeah, you know, you can have it for like 2,000 or 5,000. And, you know, you're at a convention, not home, but you like you tell them, yeah, I'll be, I'll be right back and you go and you find the nearest ATM and you cash out and you go get yourself a new toy. So, you know, at the same. Dan, I'm looking over. It always became a standard to carry at least like five grand in cash on you because you never knew who was selling what. Dan, I'm looking over your shoulder and I see that white or excuse me, that blue WWE belt over your left shoulder. Yeah. So if I called you that said, oh, man, I love the belt.

Could you make that belt for me? Do you not have a copyright trademark challenge? That's probably one of the biggest issues for people in the belt. community is regarding the copyrights and the trademarks. So the WWE belt you're referring to behind me was actually one of their replicas that I re-leathered and sent to WWE. Many years back, they asked for examples of portfolios of my work. So I sent them a bunch of belts to inspect and they sent them back. And that was one of the modifications I suggested they make on it, you know, the color behind the logo back when it was just all black. But the copyrights and the trademarks are,

pretty much how you can survive but you have to defend yourself and it's not easy when the majority of the people that are stealing your copyrights and trademarks are located in Pakistan and unfortunately I just want to be clear because I'm a little confused my question is if I want you to make me a replica you to make me a replica WWE belt or WCW belt let's go with a big original big gold belt WCW belt that has NW woe on it with my name because i want to bring i want to bring it to autograph signings and things like that if i ask you to do that given that belt is now i'm guessing a copyright or a trademark piece of property with wwe could you indeed make me that belt for money not that i want it i'm just asking

the question i'm trying to get it if i wanted to i could it would be illegal but that's that's the way things operate. Like sometimes there are people who do favors for their friends. Is it legal? No, but it's one of those things where you trust somebody and you say, you know, I'm doing you a favor. Don't, you know, don't throw it out all over the internet or don't try selling it. You know, myself, I do own copyrights on the majority of my designs, but many of the belts behind me are mostly copyrighted designs. And I had to purchase them legally through the person who owns a copyright or somebody who is authorized to sell copies of them. So in the case of WCW,

I don't really want a belt, and you just answered the question very, very clearly, and I appreciate that. My next question is, how much your business comes, I would imagine, I don't know anything about your business, but just knowing how popular wrestling is and how popular promotional items are,

how much business do you generate from corporations or sponsors or people that just want to have what represents a world heavyweight championship design, but with their company brands on it and their logos on it? Right. I would say about 40% of my business are corporations that have nothing to do with wrestling or MMA. Like you said, a lot of companies are using them as awards or incentives, especially for sales. So many of the belts that I'm making for these corporations

feature removable nameplates or what they'll do is they'll pass them around to the person who sells the most items this month and they'll have another nameplate made or nameplate made every year. So it's mostly corporate awards. A lot of golf clubs. They give it to their end of the year country champion.

And then I've been getting like a weird, influx of people wanting like wedding belts they won't you know i don't ask me about it it just seems to be a thing that's fun i've done i've done a bunch of wedding belts and i actually have one that was sent back to me where they specifically left plates on it blank for when they had children i made this for them five years ago they finally had their first child they sent it back to me so now i'm putting the baby's name on it for them that's really that is so awesome well i love to hear that because you know As you're talking, and I'm thinking, because, you know, I'm an entrepreneur at heart, I'm thinking, now, you know, every time, you know, World Series, WWE sends the WWE championship belt, right, NFL,

hockey, all these sports. And that has to, like, resonate with a lot of corporations. So I would imagine your business has got to be getting strong in that regard. And you've been doing it since they once, so you've got to be kind of like ahead of the pack. Yeah. I'm lucky enough, again, that I pretty much have to do all my own advertising, but when people see the belts, you know, that's when it starts snowballing. Like I've done several belts for the New York Yankees.

And then after that, all of the emails I received from various sports teams and people associated with, you know, major league baseball and football, they all didn't realize it. Like you said, like championship rings are nice, but when you see belt on somebody, That gets eyes on. So, when I ask, what is Odoo? What comes to mind? Well, Odoo is a bit of everything. Odu is a suite of business management software

that some people say is like fertilizer because of the way it promotes growth. But you know, some people also say Odu is like a magic beanstalk because it grows with your company and is also magically affordable. But then again, you could look at Odu in terms of how

its individual software programs are a lot like building blocks. I mean, whatever your business needs. Manufacturing, accounting, HR programs, you can build a custom software suite that's perfect for your company. So what is O-DU? Well, I guess O-DU is a bit of everything. O-DU is a fertilizer, magic beanstock building blocks.

For business. Yeah, that's it. Which means that O-D-U is exactly what every business needs. Learn more and sign up now at O-D-com. That's ODO.com. With the conflict in Iran, global markets are on edge. Oil prices are surging. Volatility is spiking, and the U.S. dollar is under pressure.

This isn't a distant headline. You're feeling it at the pump, in your grocery budget, even on your utility bills. When uncertainty rises, many Americans turn to physical gold and silver, tangible assets that have protected wealth for centuries. And with gold recently topping 3,300. dollars an ounce, experts believe the upside is just getting started. That's where preserve gold comes in. They make it simple to get started and offer real support every step of the way. Right now they're giving away a free wealth protection guide. Just text iHeart to 50505. Plus you could get up to $15,000 in free gold or silver with a

qualified purchase. Don't wait, text iHeart to 50505 today and take the first step toward protecting your savings. Yeah, and I want to go through your accolades here real quick. We're talking work for New Japan. You designed the IWGP Women's Championship, the AEW Women's Championship, Jade Cargill's Custom TBS Belt, the Owen Art Foundation Cup. You've done work for WW2K with their video game championship, as you just said, the Yankees. So you're so well-versed.

What do you think it is about what has developed in culture that allows people to become so ingrained in this bell culture? does having a belt represent for the average person that helps you then in turn monetize right i think belts have outgrown wrestling as a whole belts is just another way to symbolize that you're the best or you're the champion and going back to wwe like when the detroit pistons won the NBA championship they gave all of the players copies of the big gold belt. And during their ring ceremony, they got the ring, and they all had a copy of the big gold belt over their shoulder. So going back to what Eric said with the big logo on the WWE belt,

I think that's one of the huge branding reasons why their belts feature that logo so prominently on the front because every time they give it to a celebrity, every time it's sent to a sports team, it doesn't matter if you follow wrestling or not you're going to see that logo and that becomes ingrained in you so the the idea of belts just being wrestling related is is very small whereas the symbolism of being the best and the champion is what it means and who doesn't love a belt yeah i mean you're not wrong about that let me ask you this now that we've seen

belts evolve so quickly over time. We just saw WWE introduce their new World Heavyweight championship. As a belt expert, in your mind, in 2023, what elements comprise a great championship belt? I think the most important part is a design that works as visually. And what I mean by that is people forget how a belt will look on TV compared to how it'll look in person. So, for example, W.U. You use a new belt that Seth Rollins one. When you saw it on TV, when you saw it debut, there was no lack of paint. There wasn't a lot of, what do you call it?

There wasn't a lot of difference between the design. And you couldn't make out the details. And it was only afterwards when WWP posted up close pictures on their website that you could take appreciation of the different elements that went into it, the different designs. And that's very important that a lot of people don't understand. You have to figure out a way to design a belt where the details can come across on television because that's where it's going to be spending most of its time being seen. So things like paint, things like dual plating where it's both nickel and gold plated and using stones, especially colored stones, because you get the light reflecting off of it

and you get much bigger pop. Now, if you look behind me, most of those belts are the same distance away from me, but some of them are more clear to read than others. And that tends to be the ones that have more paint and more difference between the plating and the paintwork. So if you try to go for that UFC style where it's just two-tone, no paint, or lack of stones, it's very hard to convey what that championship represents or what, for what the belt is used for.

What did you think of the latest? I probably shouldn't ask you this question, but I don't care. I told John, before you got on the year, I'm kind of crabby today, so there's a lot of, I don't give a fuck running through my veins right now. But what did you think of the WWE belt that they revealed as a designer?

What did you think? On a scale of 1 to 10? The design up close was a 7. When I saw it on TV at first, it was like a four. Because they went for like the 3D CNC effect where you get kind of like the big gold belt to get the floral across. Yeah. There was there was nothing to offset it. There was no paint behind it.

So like they had these lions. They had a crown. Nobody on TV could see that. It just looked like all one blob of gold. I agree. I was like, you know, I love because when I see a belt, I love for it to feel traditional. You know, it's like in the 50s, in the 40s, 50s, even in boxing, the belts. I've worn belt buckles that were bigger than some of the belt championship belts that guys have worn.

And then they eventually get more and more, I think it's television kind of get more important. The belts became more visual. But like the big gold belt to me is the iconic one. The shape, the design, the size. It's not too big. It's not too small. it's appropriate. But to your point, Dan, the lack of background and dimension in that belt, it's just

one big gold blur and there's no detail to it. I agree, man. I think it's just the brand has become so important. That WWE logo is more important than any other aspect. Yeah, think about what you just said. Think about what you just said. What's more important, the brand or the belt? If people are fighting for the belt, why is the brand more important?

I'm not saying I agree with it. I'm saying that is probably with the mentality. No, it's just a, it's just a nuanced look at that comment, but it's very accurate. You're right. And I agree with you, John. I agree with you. Dan, you do some incredible work, man. And I know Conrad Thompson, who runs ad-free shows, says a lot of affinity for your work as well.

Where can people find out more about your work and maybe even commissioning belts? on my website is belts by dan.com but i am belts by dan across all social media platforms i'm not a hard person to uh get a hold of i may be ordering some belts dan i've got an idea i'm sitting here talking i see a belt for me and my wife i see a belt for my son and my uh daughter-in-law and our grandson and i see a belt for my daughter it's kind of like the fish off championship family we can do something definitely well all right man we thank you so so much for hopping on strictly business with us dan we really appreciate you best of luck with you and we hope to see some more of your designs coming up soon and we hope to see the rest of you

joining us every single week here on strictly business of course if you want to join us on strictly business all you got to do is get on board with us here on the advertise with eric flow it's very simple guys you go to advertise with eric dot com and you can get your product or your business out in front of thousands and thousands of viewers and listeners every single week here on Strictly Business. We'll support you. You support us. It's a mutually beneficial relationship. Eric, this has been a great episode. Thank you again for Dan for joining us. Anything else you want to add? Beltsbydan.com. See you guys. It's good stuff. This has been Strictly Business. We'll see you next week.