83 Weeks with Eric Bischoff - Strictly Business with Eric Bischoff #33: Owning the Indies ft. Matt Cardona!

Episode Date: June 29, 2023

In this very special edition of "Strictly Business," Eric Bischoff and Jon Alba are joined by Matt Cardona, formerly known as Zack Ryder in WWE! Cardona discusses how his WWE release in 2020 led to him reinventing not just his way of life, but his way of business, and details why he's on his way to his most lucrative year yet! Special thanks to this week's sponsor! BlueChew- Try BlueChew FREE when you use our promo code WRESTLEBIZ at checkout--just pay $5 shipping. FOLLOW ALL OF OUR SOCIAL MEDIA at https://83weekslinks.com/ Stop throwing your money on rent! Get into a house with NO MONEY DOWN and roughly the same monthly payment at SaveWithConrad.com On AdFreeShows.com, you get early, ad-free access to more than a dozen of your favorite wrestling podcasts, starting at just $9! And now, you can enjoy the first week...completely FREE! Sign up for a free trial - and get a taste of what Ad Free Shows is all about. Start your free trial today at AdFreeShows.com If your business targets 25-54 year old men, there's no better place to advertise than right here with us on Strictly Business. You've heard us do ads for some of the same companies for years...why? Because it works! And with our super targeted audience, there's very little waste. Go to AdvertiseWithEric.com now and find out more about advertising with Strictly Business. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Get rid of your credit card debt, get a lower monthly payment, and skip your next two house payments at save withconrad.com. NMLS number 65084, equal housing lender. You don't need perfect credit or money out of your pocket to save thousands with save withconrad.com. Find out how much money you can save right now at save with Conrad.com. What's going on, guys? It's time for another edition of Strictly Business with Eric Bischoff here on the podcast seat and at Free Shows Network. I, of course, am John Alba. Joined as I am every single week by my bald brethren, Mr. Eric Bischoff.

look what they've done to my boy man it was great i had a blast i had a blast and you know the coolest thing about it is the feedback that i've received and a lot of it is from people who are not wrestling fans who have friends or family children who have been a part of the st jude program and it's been overwhelming if I could grow my hair fast enough to go get it shaved once a month to raise money for St. Jude, I would do it because it's just, it's really cool and it started out as a goofy thing, but man, did it end up being something I'm probably one of the things I'm most proud of. I know that sounds crazy, but proud in a different way. I'll tell you, man, you look very Bruce Willis.

let's see you look a little action here i i dig it now my wife said sean connery oh okay all right a little more he's old he's old as hell and bruce willis unfortunately isn't doing all that well so i don't know how to take that no i mean it is a complimentary okay for you with that uh but i'm sure top guy weekend was great it seemed like it was everyone had a great time booking their own fantasy you know what though tell me i don't look like kevin selvin right now i'm gonna put these are cheaters because i lost my regular glasses so I got a pair of like $4 cheaters that really don't fit. But I had them on because I have to put these on to read, right?

I had these things on and I walked by the mirror and I thought, I thought for a second, Kevin Sullivan snuck in my house. Tell me I don't look like Kevin Sullivan. Wow. Wow. Isn't that awesome? Yeah. And you got to reunite with him this past week too.

So that's kind of cool. Yeah, Doug Dillinger. Dirty Dick cheat him. You know, dirty Dick Cheat him. Talk about the business of the wrestling business. We're going to get Dirty Dick Cheat him on here pretty soon. Okay. I know Conrad's going to sit down with him

and that's going to be awesome. But yeah, dirty Dick Cheatham. He's from Turner Finance. It's going to be a great conversation. You brought him up just a few weeks ago here on this podcast, which of course, go back into the archives, 83 weeks.com, ad-freeshows.com. Get up to business with strictly business

by checking out all of our episodes in the archive. We have an amazing episode plan for you guys today. We're going to be having a conversation with Matt Cardona, which I'm going to tee up on just in a second here, Eric. But before we do, I've got to ask you about this. this. I know you talked a little bit about A.W. Collision on this past week's 83 weeks, but since then, we have gotten the rating for A.W. Collision comes in at 595,000 viewers, down 27% from the Premier, which was 816,000. It was down 37% in the 1849 demographic, polling a 0.21 in that.

You had mentioned in the past that you expected there to be some drop off that initial interest. What's your reaction to that rating in week two? I actually predicted that it was going to drop somewhere between 25 and 30 percent, and it came in at 27. See, that's the thing about the show, people. I don't always talk about the things after they happen because any moron can do that. I tell you what's going to happen before it happens. Remember that.

And, yeah, it came to be expected. I think the good news is that 27% drop in viewers and 31% drop or 37% drop in demo. Fortunately, the show came out of the shoot with a higher than expected audience in demo. So yes, they took a hit. We predicted it here. Everybody knew it was going to happen. I just have watched the pattern over the last five years. And 30% is generally the drop.

so I look no no cause to panic I didn't watch the second Saturday show obviously collision because I was busy in Huntsville um having a blast so I didn't see it I haven't watch the the DVR version of it yet I haven't had time just got home the other day I will watch it but no cost to panic let's I think the third week is going to be the tell tell because that you know you're going you know you're going to get a drop the second week it just is what it is. If you drop significantly, if you drop by another 15% on week three, 15% from week two, now you got a problem. But if they hold it, if it's flat, I think that's a good sign. Because let's be real. You know, Saturday seems like, oh, yeah, that's a good night.

Historically, you know, there's a lot of reasons why if you're a cheerleader, you're going to be optimistic, and I'm not suggesting you should be, because of the wrestling is an alternative to a lot of the other things that are on on Saturday nights. But when college football comes along, if we're seeing a viewing audience of 350,000, I'll be surprised. It's going to be hard. But right now, they can do a great job of putting on, if the second week was anything like the first week. If they can do that consistently, it'll turn into must, must view television, must see TV. It will because the quality of what I saw the first time was so good. Now, again, I may watch the DVR version of it and go, what the hell? I don't know. I haven't

seen it yet. I've heard recently, as recently as last night, that AEW must be listening to strictly business or 83 weeks because, oh, what are they doing? I've been harping on this now for months and called them out specifically on the poor-ass quality of their backstage promos. And last night they're doing on-the-fly interviews backstage. Yay for them. Now, I haven't seen them yet. I don't know what it looks like. But I'm hoping for the best, really.

Well, it is reported that forbidden or the pay-per-view buys that it did are going to be the highest since double or nothing, 2022. So that would be May 22. So that seems to be a good business trend for AEW in that sense. Sell and pay-per-view is not easy, especially less than a month after your last one. So that sounds like that was, I mean, well, when you have a match like Kenny Omega versus Will Osprey on the docket. And did you see, I know you guys watched For Indoor and you talked a little bit about it,

but Brian Danielson wrestled that Okada match with his arm broken for the last 10 minutes. And the x-ray that his wife. Bree posted was gnarly. I mean, this was a clean break that this guy wrestled the last 10 minutes with. I mean, what a performer he is, isn't he? That's, I've broken my arm before. I know what that feels like.

I have a metal plate, titanium plate from my elbow, just above my elbow to just below my shoulder joint. I don't know how he did that. That is the personification of tough MFER. He is. Mentally and physically. And, you know, one thing I do want to say, too, we know that Tony Kahn is a diehard wrestling fan. And that's why we see him licensing out music and stuff.

Seeing Brian Danielson come out to the final countdown, this very famous song, which was his indie song for years coming out in this main event, doesn't it enhance wrestling so much? I'm asking the guy who licensed voodoo child. When you get these mainstream popular songs accompanying these stars, doesn't it enhance that presentation like crazy? It can. It's not automatic. You know, Voodoo Child and the reason I spent $100,000 to do what Tony's doing for probably millions. The reason I use Fudu Child, though, is not only because I was a Jimmy Hendricks fan,

which I still am to this day. If you look at my playlist, it just reeks of Jimmy Hendricks. But because that song, Voodoo Child, fit that character so well. It's almost like it was written for them. So it's not only an iconic piece of classic rock, and part of, you know, 60s, 70s pop culture that's still ages great today, but it fit the character. And I think the same thing happened with Final Countdown.

not that Daniel Brinson, Brian, Brian Danielson, Daniel, Brian, whatever, still can't get it right. Not that he's any kind of a countdown to retirement type of thing or leading up to a final match type of thing. But because of the connection on the Indies and just the song, like each match could be a final count down if you want to look at it that way. So thematically, it's not only a classic iconic song, it's a classic iconic song. it's a classic iconic song that really fits that character yeah if you'd use that same piece of music for a different character where it didn't fit as well because it wasn't a character that is you know is is respected and highly regarded in every way professionally as a talent professionally as a backstage person professionally walking through life you know in everyday life

he's got a lot of that respect but if you put that song on somebody else that didn't have that kind of equity, it's still be cool. People go, wow, Tony spent a lot of money. I remember that song. Wow. And it's a, it's a kind of a, you know, it's like a rally type song anyway. You just want to go out and. Of course.

Do something when you hear that song. So you'd still get a pop, but not like you're going to get with Daniel. No, I mean, wild thing with John Moxley works perfectly. Yeah. Jane by Jefferson Starship for Orange Cassidy works perfectly too. it's very cool when you see those work out well. And I do give a lot of credit for that because it does enhance presentation. And let's look at the other end of the spectrum.

Paul Heyman used to do it. It's one of the reasons that I think ECW got as popular as it did is because Paul, now he just stole this shit. He didn't buy it. He didn't license anything. But he was, you know, he was not on any labels radar. You know, nobody knew it. And he got away with it for a long time.

And I think that music, and it was used well because Paul's pretty brilliant this way, that music is one of the things that helped, maybe a small thing, maybe a big thing. I don't know. But certainly one of the things that helped get ECW over the way it did, because you didn't see that anywhere else. Couldn't. You were there for the first one-night stand when Sandman came out to enter Sandman. And you had 5,000 people, however many it was, just absolutely losing their minds.

at it for Sandman. Amazing. Absolutely amazing. Eric, this week we have Matt Cardona, the former Zach Ryder on the podcast with us, who I think has become one of the most incredible examples of reinvention and turning reinvention into cash in the wrestling industry. What can people look forward to in this conversation they're about to hear? You answer that, brother. I know Matt Cardona. I mean, I know who he is, but we've never sat down and had a conversation. I know of his WWE life and as a talent. But again, I never, I don't know. And I'm, I'm anxious, you know, you tell me that I'd be impressed.

And I'll be honest with John, that sometimes you're right on the money. And sometimes I'm thinking, I don't know, but we'll see. I'm here to learn. Let's not waste any more time. Hey, guys. It's the hardcore legend Mick Foley here. And I need to call a quick timeout, a brief timeout, because I wanted to tell your listeners, what I have been telling Foley is pod listeners for a while now about all the cool

things happening over on ad-freeshows.com. David Crockett and Conrad go day by day through June of 1985 and Jim Crockett promotions on the latest episode of The Book, the month that the grandson of a plumber arrived. June 30th, Cody Rhodes is going to be born. I mean, his dad is, is, is, is wrestling with Tully Blanchard in Los Angeles and Dusty's got to hurry home and rush out of there and get home to Charlotte to see his wife Michelle give birth to the American nightmare. It's a special day in Jim Crockett promotions history. Jake the Snake Roberts chatted live with ad-free shows members about his Hall of Fame career

and a story about Ron Garvin you won't soon forget. You know, everybody's got to tell, you know, so you know if they do that, that here comes his comeback you know what ronnie garvin's tail was his nipples would get hard swear to god man his nipples would get rock hard when his nipples got rock hard man he was coming to his feet and he's going to beat your ass just a small taste a sampling if you will of what we have waiting for you with four levels to choose from for see for yourself why ad three shows is the best value in wrestling today sign up now right now at ad three shows dot com yeah all right ericischoff i know you just got back from a long trip down

to huntsville for top guy weekend but thankfully you had mrs b with you and if i had to guess and I'm just guessing, you probably had a packet of blue chew with you as well. Am I correct in suggesting that? Yeah, when I leave home, Mrs. Bee and I go out of town. One of the first things that I pack is Bluetooth. I do not leave home without my Blue Chew. I don't blame you at all because Blue Chew is a unique online service that delivers the same active ingredients as Viagra, Cialis, and Lovitra,

but in chewable tablets and at a fraction of the cost. and you can take them any time day or night. So you can plan ahead or be ready whenever an opportunity arises, like hypothetically speaking, if you had a little bit of downtime there at Top Guy weekend between some of the activities. I mean, the top guys draw up doing karaoke, and Eric Bischoff says, ah, opportunity strikes here.

I don't want to get too into your intimate details there, Eric Bischoff, but I'd imagine it went something like that down there in Huntsville. I mean, that weekend alone could probably excite you enough without Blue Chew, but you throw Blue Chew into. the mix well then boy howdy are you rocking and rolling the best part all of blue chew is done online no visits to the doctor's office no awkward conversations and no waiting in line at the pharmacy blue choose tablets are made in the united states of america and prepared and ship directly to your door in a discreet package how has blue chew given you the hot tag eric bischoff

in the past well i don't know that blue chew has ever bailed me out but blue two has helped put me over like i'm a subject of conversation after the fact so no i've never been in any kind of trouble because blue two isn't about dysfunction certainly help in that regard but that wasn't my issue my issue is whether whatever i'm doing i really want to perform well i'm a performer at heart it's why i love being out in front of a camera it's why i love doing this podcast i cannot not not be performer and if you cannot not not be a former be a performer when it really matters then you can't be without blue two you know eric whenever i'd watch you at the nw o you're strung out to the ring

the big grin your swagger your confidence i always want to emulate that well guess what you can emulate that type of confidence in the bedroom strolling on in when you got blue chew at your side Blue Chew wants to help you have better sex. Discover your options at Bluechoo.com. Chew it and do it. And we've got a special deal for our listeners. Try Blue Chew free when you use our promo code wrestle biz, W-R-E-S-T-L-E-B-I-Z at checkout. Just pay $5 shipping. That's Blu2.com promo code wrestlebiz to receive your first month absolutely free. Visit Blu2.com for more details and important safety information. And we thank Blue Chew for sponsoring Strictly Business.

Well, Eric, I am very excited for this episode because I was brainstorming and I was on tweet deck and I was scrolling through my timeline. I saw this great video that was a clear allusion to the Monday Night Wars era as we refer to it on this podcast, not the attitude era. And I saw Matt Cardona and Steph Dlander doing a little homage to the great DX skit. And Matt was going through all these different things about being booked on the Indies and now he's just completely dominant. the indies and i was saying owning the indies would be a great topic here on strictly business because i think matt cardona has figured out a way to do just that so without further ado the artist formerly known as zach writer mr matt cardona welcome to strictly business how are you my friend oh thank you so much for having me i'm a little nervous i'll admit i don't know what

i'm going to talk about here i know how to be a business as myself but i don't know anything about the business of independent wrestling well that's what we want to know about the business of Matt Cardona. I can help you out with that then. Because I think it's been so fascinating. I think, Eric, you're going to really find this enlightening because Matt has kind of taken all the rules we know about guys that come out of WWE going to the Indies. And he's kind of turned them on their head for a large degree of success.

So, Matt, I'd love to know right now, what does a typical month for Matt Cardona look like working different independence across the country? how busy is that schedule for you it's it's pretty busy um at least friday and saturday on the road sometimes sunday monday i record the major wrestling figure podcasts you know and then tuesday wednesday thursday am i off yes but i'm doing stuff for the podcast i own my own action figure line i'm filming these videos for social media uh you know my brain doesn't shut off and i think that's why i've been i don't want to say successful but as successful as i've been you can always be more successful right it's all relative in my mind i want to be even more successful yeah and i i'll jump in here matt

um i agree with you 100 percent i think sometimes we lose sight of um what what our own individual definition of success really is and when you're in control of your own destiny and not really reliant upon or at least not as reliant upon external opportunities and other people and other situations when you're in control of that as much as you can be and it sounds like as much as you are that's freedom that's as close to your you're going to get to real freedom and to me freedom is success so hats off to you and yeah yeah you can put dollar figures in decimal points at the end and whatever that matters no doubt about it but man there's nothing that matters as much as freedom and no i agree 100% your own fate yeah and you know i get asked this all the time

and I've said this a bunch of times, like, I don't care how you define success, accolades, money, happiness. 2022 was the most successful I've ever been in my career. And I was a little nervous. How am I going to top that for 2023? I'm about to. But, you know, I'd be lying if I said, I never wanted to wrestle at Madison Square Garden again or have a WrestleMania moment. Of course. Like I love this freedom, like you said, Eric, if you give me a date, I could take out my calendar.

I can tell you exactly where I'm going to be, how much I'm getting paid. you know and it's only going to change if i change it so i love that sense of freedom but and when you think about it met as much as you'd love to experience that moment of wrestling and medicine square garden your entrance your match the finish whatever yeah you get that 15 20 minutes or whatever of of time to experience that rush but i bet you wouldn't trade everything that it would take to get to that moment or what you're doing now. It's tricky because my wife,

Chelsea Green, she just got hired back to WWB, so she's been there for a couple of months. And just the changing of the schedules every week, I'm like, I don't miss that. You know, I don't miss like, oh, you're needed for Smackdown. You're not needed. You need it for live events. Oh, you're not needed.

I don't miss that at all. I did that for 14 years straight. And it became normal. It wasn't until I left. I was like, wait a minute, that's not normal. That's not how you should live your life. but but i'd love to know matt you just said that 2023 is on pace to become your most successful and lucrative year yet and i think that's amazing because there are so many people who lose

that job in wwee or at the high level and then they struggled to ever get back to that point did you have a method for planning out here's how i'm going to tackle this was there a way that you could in line us on how that sausage is made to get you to that point specifically so there was no grand plan i mean i got fired right as the pandemic started there were no indies to even do so luckily i had the the major recipe podcast that kept us afloat financially um and once everything started opening back up uh had a little cup of coffee in a w uh went to impact wrestling for a while but once the indies started opening up i was addicted to the hustle the the making you know making the towns selling the merch i'm a big merch guy

That's what I do, right? So setting up the merch table before, I loved at the end of the night, yeah, okay, if I had a great match, sure, right? But I love counting that cash out of my fanny pack at the end of the night. You know, I'm addicted to that. And then it just snowballed into different ideas. What other merch could I make? What other promotions could I go and do?

How can I make myself different? You know, I'm sure that we'll talk about the GCW and the death match, you know, me becoming a death match king. It's just, I'm just, I don't have this grand plan to answer your question. I'm just, I use the hashtag. The gimmick always ready. And it's more than just a hatchet of a gimmick. It's how I've lived my life, live my career.

I have to be ready for any opportunity presented. And listen, they're not all going to be home run. Sometimes I'm going to strike out. But that's how you grow. That's how you learn. Let me ask you, man, I want to back up just a second. Did you see what year did you leave? When did you leave WWW?

When did you get fired? That's 2020, April 2020. So right this pandemic, sarton. Did you see it coming? Did you smell it? I did not see it coming at all because at that time they weren't really doing releases. You know, like the giant mass releases were like a thing of the past, right? And I thought for sure, well, you know, W.W is not just going to fire a bunch of people like during this uncertain time.

And then sure enough, they did. At the end of the day, it was a blessing in disguise for me because the year prior. Now, listen, I don't know if it's because AEW was whomey or what. But coincidentally, I would say the entire roster, at least most of them, were offered five-year deals with a significant raise. And I did not take that deal. I had one year left of my contract. And I wasn't sure if I wanted to stay or should I go.

You know, my career is well documented. A lot of highs, a lot of lows. And I'm grateful for my entire run there. But I wasn't sure if it was time to leave. Ultimately, that decision was made for me, right? And it was the greatest thing that could have happened in my career. So I did not see it coming. I did not see it come.

Well, that day, we got a, on our TR app, tell our relations app, we got a video from Vince McMahon saying cuts were coming. And when that message got put out, I'm like, okay, I'm going to cut today. But prior to that, I did not see it coming. Okay, so up to that, you didn't see it coming. When you finally got the call from whoever was probably Mark Corona at that point. Right. Or Johnny, I can't, I can't remember how that went.

But when you got that call, what was your first reaction? Well, first, I remember, you know, I have a bunch of group chats with a bunch of my buddies. A lot of them who were getting fired. You know, my partner at the time, Kurt Hawkins, Brian Myers, Heath, Gals, and Anderson, they're all getting fired. And I wasn't getting the call. And I was thinking to myself, oh, my God, are they going to let me just rot until August? Because that was my contract would have expired. Oh, my God.

I was basically saying, please fire me. Please fire me. I had my pro wrestling T store already ready to go with all my new merch, all my new shirts, just ready to go live once they fired me. And it's funny, I actually had a call to get fired because Mark Corrado texted me, please call me. I'm like, okay, what's this about? So, you know, I called, got fired.

But at that point, I wanted it, you know, at that point of the day. Monetizing anything is so difficult, Matt. I know that sounds like such a baseline thing to say, but it really is, especially when you're talking about a period of time where there are no Indies. You can't go out there, sell your merchandise. You mentioned that you had the podcast, which is one of the most successful podcasts in the wrestling realm. And it fills that very unique niche of people, fans who love wrestling figures. How did you find a way to monetize that to be able to sustain you through those early days of your release, as you mentioned?

Well, I think you had to backtrack a little bit because in 2011, I started a YouTube show, Z. Trulong Island story, which was essentially, at the time, I wanted, you know, get noticed by WWE or get fired and I would use that buzz in TNA I just I didn't want my spot I didn't like my spot and I wanted to have a better spot but what can you do you pitch all day long it's falling on deaf ears what what can you so I said okay I'm going to try to take control my own destiny I'm going to put out these videos on YouTube and I was doing things and saying things you know I'm climbing instead of complaining about my spot you know for example I was climbing a fence saying I'm trying to get over or I this big jacked up guy pushing me like physically pushing me i said you can't push me nobody pushes zach rider so i was

making fun of my spot you know so i was making fun of my spot but in a way where i wasn't bitching and moaning you know and well you're also you're not to interrupt you but you're also showing a pretty interesting side of your character i mean that's a funny thing to do and self deprecating humor which is kind of what you were doing i mean you had a two-prong attack to that spot um but it's funny and it's it adds to mention to your character and i'm surprised it didn't affect you in a more positive way with regard to wwe because i would have taken notice that said wait a minute maybe we're not using this guy quite right well i mean at one point it got to a point where they had to use me because they were chanting my name at shows i wasn't even at

i had merchandise it wasn't even on television because like you said eric i was trying to show my personality to the fans to form a connection with the fans because i would do whatever was me if i have if i'm told to have a two segment banger on rossure if i'm told to lose in 30 seconds sure that's awesome you guys hear me oh yeah it's awesome you just want to see more of your face there but yeah so so you know but i had learned that since i was using zach rider which is the wwe intellectual property even though i created the show even though i was funding the show even though i was filming it and editing it it's theirs right It's their intellectual property.

They own it. So fast forward a couple years later, when Brian Myers and I, Kurt Hawkins, we want to do this wrestling figure, wrestling collectible podcast. We brought it to WWE. And they had no interest in it. They had no interest in podcasts, no interest in collectibles. So we said, hey, we're going to do this on their own. But I was smart enough to realize, well, I don't want it taken away from me like the last thing. So let's do it as our real name's Matt and Brian.

And luckily we did because when we got fired, it was ours. and they couldn't touch it. Because if it was the Zach Ryder and Kurt Hawkins' Wrestling Favorite Podcasts, it would have been over. Was there pushback on you doing that? Because we saw what happened with them in Twitch for a while where there was some pushback on that, even if people were using their own likeness

and not their character likeness. There was no pushback at the time. It was just a weird era where people were just do whatever the hell they wanted. You know, this is before they were cracking down the Twitch. So we weren't hiding it, but we were, you know, we were definitely tiptoeing on the line. You know, for instance, we made our own wrestling figures wearing lucha mask like you clearly knew it was us right but we we weren't

using that wwe intellectual property that's so smart that's so smart man i'm really really impressed well i appreciate that so so how did you further monetize that matt once the release happened and it became your primary source of income for a period of time yeah so so while we were in we we just started this show for fun right we figured hey you know we We're, we're our mid-30s. We collect these, these collectibles and figures. I'm sure there's a couple other people out there who did. We couldn't anticipate how many, right?

And who were collecting, like, in hiding, you know, who were afraid to come out, say, hey, I collect stuff. So we didn't even think about monetizing it at first. And first we dropped like an enamel pin, you know, a pin. You know, we dropped 100 of those. They sold that instant. Like, huh, that's cool. Maybe we should do a pro wrestling T store.

Those were selling out. then listen i'll i'll admit totally ripping off conrad in his method you know we just we started the patreon you know we started doing live shows all while being in wwe um and then once we left we're like oh my god this is the pandemic who's going to want to listen and buy collectibles during this horrible time in the world turned out everyone was just sitting home buying junk you know everyone was sitting home uh consuming content so our business blew up you know we were recording stuff from home doing live things from home selling more merch than ever it was a wild wild time sounds like a fun time brother i mean oh yeah i love the pandemic eric i was i was

fired living in florida every day just by the beach drinking not by the beach my pool which is pretty much like a beach by the pool drinking every day talking about action figures i was loving line but but you know then you start to realize that that eventually wrestling's going to start up again it's going to start to get the indies shows happening and you're faced with this opportunity of you know a company like a w cody's there he's one of your best friends you have an opportunity to come in if you want to or you could go out there and start to explore some other things and you maybe took a little more of an unexpected path where you did show up in AEW, but you didn't stick around there and you started to attack the Indies as they started

to open up. What was your mentality with that approach? Well, I mean, to be honest, you know, I did the A.W thing. And they never offered me a deal. It's not like I turned them down. You know, I was there for maybe three or four shows. They kept saying the deal's coming. The deal's coming. The deal never came. And at the time, I was, I was pretty bummed out, to be honest, looking back, blessing in disguise, right? Blessing in disguise. At the time, totally disappointed. Now, thank God, it didn't work. out that way because then once the indies start open back up i knew i needed a change right i didn't know what that change would be i knew i needed to change myself in a drastic way um and i was presented with this opportunity to compete in a death match for for gcw against nick gauge who at the time

they had just done a dark side of the ring episode on can i can i stop you right there because i'll just forget man i'm i'm an old fucker so you got to bear with me old and ball now it's i'm like it. It looks good. You look good. When you said, you realize that you had to be radically different, I think is what you said, drastically different. What made you feel that way as opposed to what most guys, I think, would do, which is, oh, I want to look exactly the way I look to bring as much of that WWE equity with me as I possibly can. You took the opposite approach to be as decidedly different as you could be. What was your thinking about being different? friend. I'm a student of the game, Eric. I'm a lifelong fan. I see what happens when people leave

WWE. They change the spelling of their name. And then they go to the Indies. They have a couple months, maybe a year tops, and their career goes to die. You know, no offense to the Hockey Talk, man, but this isn't my Hockey Talk Man run. I don't want to be doing the same bullshit for the next 15 years in high school gyms. I don't mind if you, I don't mind if you jump on Hockey Talk Man, by the way. But you know what I'm saying? I didn't want to just do the greatest hits for a couple months because they see it once great Zach Ryan is here great second time oh he's here again third time oh this guy's back so you know you you you touched on something right there that is so really I mean I don't want to say brilliant like Nobel Peace Prize brilliant but

that's a really really significant perspective and it's so different than and this is what I'm picking up as I'm listening to you you know I talk about it all the time so does Conrad Conra is approaching a lot of the things that we're doing with a better than, less than different than. That was the approach I took with Nitro. When you can be different than, but in a unique, interesting way, by default, you'll be better than. But very few people want to be different because they're afraid it won't work. So these plot points along your path thus far, at least, I keep hearing different, different, had to do this, differently. You know, I really enjoy this. This is great.

Well, so that's what makes, Matt, your run with GCW so unique because here's Zach Ryder, the epitome of sports entertainer, right? Like, you cannot get more of a sports entertainment character than Zach Ryder. And when you go into AEW doing the Mac Cardona stuff in the beginning, it's more or less pretty similar. You're more authentically you may be, but it's pretty similar. So then you get this opportunity with GCW. Tell us a little bit more about why you saw that as an opportunity that you could latch on to. Yeah, so I'm approached to do this death magic against Nick Gage, and my knee-jerk reaction is absolutely fucking not. I'm not wrestling this fucking drug addict criminal in Atlantic City, New Jersey, no fucking way.

And then I sat back and I thought about, like you said, I'm like, there might be some interest in seeing Nick Gage with his pizza cutter, the man who almost killed David Arquette, slice up Zach Ryan. I think there might be some interest in this. It might create some buzz. So I decided to do it. I'm like, fuck it. I'll do it. One and done. I could not anticipate the buzz it created, at least for me.

It changed my life. It changed my career that night, which in theory, and thanks to streaming. And the way wrestling is now, you know, it was on Fight TV. You know, 10 years ago, it would have just been an independent show in Atlantic City, New Jersey that, what, 500, 100, 1,000 people saw. Because of streaming. because of the internet, it was trending number one worldwide above the Olympics and UFC that night, which is fucking crazy. And the snowball effect it caused for my career, not just in GCW, but other places where, you know, I walk into GCW for the past decade in WWE, this ultimate over the top baby face, they're flipping me off. They're saying, fuck you.

And I absolutely loved it. And that was the change I needed. to change myself to the more aggressive asshole more yeah i don't want to say hardcore because listen i'm fooling everybody i call myself the death match king for two years i had one fucking death match it's just that and that's the heat i'm the death match i come up the cry i had one fucking death match one well that's the thing that you started really leading into this self-awareness and like eric one of my favorite things that that matt was doing was you know matt as zach Ryder came up through the WW ECW brand.

So he started marketing himself as an ECW original because he came through the WW ECW brand. And I think small things like that, man, they enhance your presentation like crazy. It's it's three dimensional heat. It's real heat. It's not going out there and making fun of the town or the fat person at ringside or all a typical or the local teams, I mean, or in the case of see a punk, putting heat on Hulk Hogan in your first interview back, the guy you don't even know you've never worked

with. That kind of, when I see cheap heat like that, it's just, I disconnect immediately from that character. But when you can find something like Matt is describing here, and John, you're describing, that's like a third dimension. And that's the heat that works. it's it's i don't know how to describe it but i know what when i hear it i know what when i see it and that's a perfect example of it it's a little bit like self-deprecating humor for wrestlers

like if you want to be be a heel you've got to acknowledge that you're bullshit and people right you got to be willing to do things that the audience knows is flat up bullshit they'll hate you for that more than they'll hate you for making fun of their football team no i agree and another example is like, you know, the big, you know, the, I don't know why I'd be an insult was that, oh, you're the ex-W guy who got fired. So I'd use all that stuff to my advantage. For instance, I win this death match GCW title. I make a custom title with the Velcro strap that everyone hates on the belts now with Velcro. And I made a spinner like that John Cena spinner belt. Like just walking out this spinner looks like a toy for this death match wrestling promotion.

They fucking hated me. But I, you know, if I walk out and I don't think it's a joke i'm not walking out laughing it's my i take it bucking very seriously that's the he right they they hate me even more for that that are you are you translating that into buys then matt like how is that translating to merchandise because you know you're going to get the old schoolers to say well you're the heels so you shouldn't be out there selling your merch on a table after that but how did you combat that okay so for instance that that i don't know about gcw in their business i can't speak to that i do know and a couple months later this an indie promotion, you know, just in New Jersey.

A couple months later, they sold out the Hammerstein Ballroom. Is that because of me and the attention? I don't know. I'm not saying that. But I do know for that particular match, you know, I knew I was going to get a little bloody, right? So I wore like a white t-shirt. I'm like, all right, I'll get a couple of trickles of blood on it. The shirt was maroon by the end.

Okay, it's maroon. So I'm like, all right, how can I market this? So I contacted some buddies I have at the WWE who work in the merchandise department. I said, who makes those WrestleMania plaques? every year they cut up the canvas and they take a nice picture whoever the champion is and they autographed and they sell the plaque i found that company i sent them the bloody shirt they cut up the shirt right as opposed to like a canvas it's my bloody shirt a picture of me all bloody i signed it i made over 20 grand on that did did they're like request a a blood test or

well i let them know what it was so they could back out before it wasn't like hey i'm sending a shirt and I send him a bloody shirt. I let him know, hey, this is real blood. Yeah, because that brought me when it got somebody's attention. Yeah. I send you a shirt. I want you to cut up into a bunch of little pieces so I can ship it out all over the country. Sounds like you're trying to like do a dexter thing to cover up a murder.

Yeah. I mean, that's what it looked like a full blow. I looked like I was murdered afterwards. I really did. It was, listen, that's why it's a one and done never again. I give all the credit in the world to those guys. But holy shit, there's no way I can do that every weekend or every month. no way but yeah that's how that's how i marketed that and then since then for that match i made

two different action figures from it so that's even more money all this one match that's awesome how many action figures are you selling right now oh right now i've we have a whole toy line we make these bendy figures make these big like they're called big rubber guys like the ljns uh we made a conrad figure for rick flare's last match conrad contact was like Do you know anyone who can make this figure for Flair's last match, which was in like two or three months? I'm like, uh, I can try. And luckily, you know, we were able to pull it off.

It was able to be in hand. Uh, we stopped our production and everything else to get that Flair figure out. But, you know, it's just, is it work? Yes. Is it my job? Yes, but it doesn't feel like work. I'm designing toys. There's stuff that I would have played with as a kid.

I love it. I know this guy by name of Jerry Paddower that, you know, you sound a lot like, you know who Jeremy is? Absolutely. Yeah, Jeremy's a pretty good friend. I've known him for about 20 years. Yeah. And he loves what he does as well.

You can tell. You know, he was a young kid that just had a passion and has worked hard and is still having a blast and probably still to this day. It doesn't feel like he's going to work every day. Jeremy is a great guy. Actually, we went to his house to record a podcast. This guy is so rich. This is how I want to get where his basement, like the windows are his pool. It's the water from his pool.

I'm like that's how rich out and all of toys so toys aren't just for kids look at that no no then you also mentioned that you're starting to do a lot of live events with your podcast yeah how did you see that translate tangibly in in that regard so listen like I said I stole whatever codrad of bruce were doing right they were piggybacking off pay-per-views you know if they're in chicago they would do a show you know right before the night after so it was easier to do while we were in wwe because we'd already be in the town So now we kind of just do them Not so much piggybacking off events We just kind of pick our own spots

Like you said, you're going to Calhoun with Matt Hardy Every August we go there We do, you know, 100 VIP tickets Maybe 75 GAs And does it make money? Yes, but I feel like it's more of a community builder Right? So now they're listening to the podcast They're invested, they're buying the merchandise

And we're out there and afterwards We're hanging out with them. We're drinking with them. We're having a good time with them. You know, we're not just saying here Come pay us. I get the fuck out of here you know we're giving them and there's another this we can do this podcast for three hours yeah there is another you know we're talking about conrad you know i just got back from this every show's weekend event that we do once here for uh top guys one of our top tiers and i'm i'm gonna be very honest anybody that knows me very well at all um knows this to be true

i prefer not to be around people and it's not that i don't like them it's not that i hate people It's just I'm much more comfortable with a lot of space around me, right? And for me to go to a two or three day event, I have to mentally prepare myself. And I'm not kidding, you know, and it's not like hard work or you have to meditate or anything, but I have to really change my way of thinking, not because I don't like anybody or anybody that's part of a group, but just because, again, I live in the middle of nowhere, Wyoming for a reason. I've been here for a long time. But I went to this event that I typically, in an environment like that, would be, I just wouldn't feel right.

I had the most fun I've had in a long time. And these members of Ad Free Show, we call them family, because they really are. And it's really truly become that. That community and hanging out with them and sharing stories, and you can, over time, you can feel them actually feel like they're one of your pals. Yes. That is such a cool feeling. And I know, you know, I got involved in this old thing and Conrad and I were having fun.

And I ended up getting my head shaved and we raised a couple bucks and that was cool. But the goodwill that we created doing that is I sent Conrad, it's actually said, my timeline's blowing up with stuff that people typically wouldn't send me. the goodwill that you just described and hanging out with them, don't just take their money. I've been to enough autograph signings and conventions where people like me,

you know, former's, older formers, and they're just there for the transaction. And I see people walking away, I don't want to say disappointed, but they know that you really don't care. And when someone like you goes out and hangs out with them,

yeah, you're doing it. It's business. It is. They know that. You know that. But then when you go, go out and hang out with them and just make them feel like they matter you may not be printing

money that day but the goodwill that you're creating yeah eventually absolutely for sure and like you said you know even before wrestling shows i get to these these venues and i don't understand when i see like the guys in the back before the show like just just hanging out backstage or going over their match i'm thinking why aren't you at the fucking merch table either a trying to make money or be trying to make a connection with the audience. And if you want to say, I'm a heel, I need to, you know, be a bad guy. Then be an asshole, you know, make them hate you.

Because they will love that too, because they know. Just do something. I mean, I just, I don't understand every, you will see me before every indie show I'm at, at my table, selling my gimmicks, making a connection with the fans. It's all about the connection. Listen, I understand.

It's 2023. The moves matter. I get that. I'm not saying they don't. But if the fans don't care about you, then the moves don't matter. matter at all absolutely there needs to be a connection and not just a yay boo but a true connection and you it's hard to make that if not impossible if you're not interacting with them yeah

so the people who don't want to use social media or don't want to interact at these indie shows i just don't understand it i think you look at it look at sorry john but you look at a guy like john sina you know people could question john sina's technical wrestling skill all they want the dameseltzers of the world have at it whatever but there's a reason why John Cena became as successful as he did and is still as successful as he is. And it's not because he was such a great technical wrestler. Yes, he's got a great look. It almost looks like he was created at a Marvel studio.

But it's not even that either. John worked his ass off doing exactly what you're talking about doing. He worked harder outside of the ring that he did inside of the ring. And when you're in a DIY position, Matt, that connection goes even further. like an example that I'll use and Eric I'm not sure if you're even super familiar with him but Danhausen is the perfect example of that Matt where Danhausen now you know here's this guy on the indies back 2019 early 2020 right before the pandemic he reinvents this character he's doing this vaudevillian kind of style character he creates this gigantic following this patreon

becomes self-sustaining it becomes one of the largest wrestling patrons out there and now Danhausen worked his way into a big paying contract with AW and he still gets to do all this stuff. I think that DIY element of that connection also allows for the wrestler and the audience member who bond at an even more intimate level. Have you found any experiences like that? For sure, especially with that old YouTube show because the fans feel like they're part of your success. So back in the day when I did that show, I would do sign of the week, right, where I would literally screen grab from Raw or Smackdown and take a sign, eventually turn it to every sign I could find,

which would entice fans to bring signs so I can put it on the show. You know, it's all about the crowd and fan participation, and they feel like they're along for the ride because they are. So the more you can use the audience to your, not necessarily to your advantage, but they want to be a part of it. They want to see their guy or their girl succeed. You know, Matt, you're right. Leaving WWE was a blessing for you,

and certainly not getting locked up at AEW was a blessing because your mind works in a very, at a very high level, you're thinking differently, there we go again, differently. You're thinking so much differently than the people in WWE would allow you to think there because it's a machine. You're going to go, you're going to be a part of the machine, and that machine is going to function exactly the way they want it to function, even if your mind works differently.

And that's what I'm saying in a long-winded way is you would never get the opportunity to have the success, the experience, and take the initiatives that you're taking in a controlled environment, in any controlled environment, WWE or Coca-Cola. People like you don't function well in a corporate environment, and you're doing exactly what you should be doing. You wouldn't be able to have the freedom and flexibility to the extent that someone would, really take advantage of you a wwe should you should be the reason i'm bringing this up is i'm thinking why the hell did how did they let this guy go because your your way of thinking is so different than most people's way of thinking talent or corporate it's it's funny you say that because my wife chelsea green we met we've been together for seven years so you know half the time i was in wwe and recently she said to me like i didn't realize how much you really loved wrestling because when you

you're in WWE, you would come home and you would turn off. And I'm like, babe, you're right. Because when I was in WW, I would come home and turn off because in WW or AEW or any corporate environment, there's only so much you can control. So I say in WWE, and what got me through the past couple of years in WD is like, listen, I can control my physique. No one's going to say you can't work out. I can control my gear.

No one's going to say you can't look like a superstar. And I can control my attitude. No one can say you can't be in a good mood. The other things, I can't fucking control. I can pitch all day long, but that's it. So I would try my best. I would do what I was told. And then when I went home, I shut off.

But now I control literally everything so my brain doesn't shut off. No, I bet you. If you're, if you're, I, you're like me times 10, by the way. But if we're cut out of the same cloth, I wake, I've, I've woken up in the middle of the night with an idea. Yes. Like I was dreaming the idea. was such a good idea that it wakes me up and i literally have to write it down or record it on my phone so i remember it the next morning and i'll oftentimes get up and go wow that was a really good idea

so your brain never really shuts off your eyes may be closed you may be even snoring but you're and you just said something matt too that i think has been a huge part of your success because you're doing something that a lot of wrestlers have refused to do and that is you lean into the fact that you are a lifelong fan of wrestling. You just mentioned the WrestleMania thing where they cut the canvas and sell that. Because you're such a wrestling fan, you knew that that was

a thing, so that you translated that into doing that for your shirt. The DX skit we just talked about. In that GCW match, if I'm not mistaken, you did the illusion to edge coming out with the biker hat and the biker helmet and all that. So have you seen that

passion for wrestling that you have? Has that translated into enhancing? advancing that connection with fans in your opinion totally and i think with the uh especially with the major wrestling for a podcast because listen at the end of the day we're all nostalgic for something right our particular fans are nostalgic about you know 80s 90s wrestling so a lot of people listen to us they're like yeah you know i like matt and brian or zach and curd but i don't really collect figures anymore but then they would listen and be like holy shit you know i had that ultimate warrior in 1990 you know so like you can't there's no real delorean you can't go back

in time. But because of eBay in our podcast, you can recreate these childhood memories, right, or create new ones. For instance, you know, Christmas 95, I wanted the one, two, three kid figure. I didn't get it, right? It devastated me. It said, I got Jimmy Hart, the WCW, Jimmy Hart. What the fuck is this? Right? But now I can, I'm a grown man. I can go on eBay and buy it right now. When you get that package in the mail and you're opening up, it's surreal. It feels like you're a kid again and it's this nostalgia is what our podcast is really about yeah it's about the collectibles and the figures and the cards and the video games but it's really about our love for pro wrestling awesome amazing he is mad cardona as i said he is owning the indies right now

you're crushing it out there uh anything you'd like to plug this is the this is the stage for it what you got oh man uh you know go to major podmerch dot com to buy any of our uh new wrestling figure we have the major bendies the big rubber guys uh and just you know if you're if you're seeing me on social media at the mac cardona give me a follow if you're not and check us out on the independence you know every weekend i'll be somewhere i was posted my schedule so i really appreciate you guys having me on this is great man i i just going to tell you this has been uh inspirational it it really has it's it's really refreshing to have a conversation with people that think like you do and particularly you know with you in the wrestling business it's

It makes me feel good. I hope people that listen to this, here's some of the same things that I heard. You know, not, you know, you didn't mention the word fear, but a lot of the thought process that you went into tells me that you weren't afraid to fail, and you're not afraid to fail. You're not afraid to be different. You want to be in control of your own destiny. Those are all really aspirational qualities.

And I think, you know, a lot of people that are listening to this, Some of them may be aspiring independent wrestlers or entrepreneurs of any kind. Because the same things that you talked about apply to anybody that wants to gain more control over their lives. So, yeah, we're talking about wrestling, dude, but you're a pretty bright individual. And I hope a lot of people, you know, listen closely to what you have to say. I appreciate that, Eric. Thanks a lot. That means a lot coming from you.

Thank you. Well, if you are like Matt Cardona and you are marketing yourself out there and you want a tag team hypothetically with Strictly Business, you can find us, of course, over at Advertise witheric.com. Get your business, get your product out in front of thousands of listeners and viewers every single week with Strictly Business. And you can find us on the 83 weeks podcast stream as well as ad-free shows.com. This has been such a great conversation. Matt Cardona, thank you so much for hopping on with us.

And we'll be back with you right here on Strictly Business next week. Make sure you're again, subscribed 83weeks.com, ad-freeshows.com. This has been strictly business.