83 Weeks with Eric Bischoff - Strictly Business with Eric Bischoff #40: Cash Wheeler Arrest, AEW All In, What is a Draw?

Episode Date: August 18, 2023

In this edition of Strictly Business with Eric Bischoff, Eric and Jon react to the breaking news of AEW star Cash Wheeler's arrest, while looking at how some of the recent AEW drama may affect All In. Plus, a conversation on what exactly is a draw in wrestling in 2023, and whether or not individual stars matter more than the brand. Special thanks to this week's sponsors! Manscaped- Get 20% Off and Free Shipping with the code WRESTLEBIZ at Manscaped.com. BlueChew- Try BlueChew FREE when you use our promo code WRESTLEBIZ at checkout--just pay $5 shipping. HelloFresh- Go to HelloFresh.com/50WrestleBiz and use code 50WrestleBiz for 50% off plus free shipping! FOLLOW ALL OF OUR SOCIAL MEDIA at https://83weekslinks.com/ Stop throwing your money on rent! Get into a house with NO MONEY DOWN and roughly the same monthly payment at SaveWithConrad.com On AdFreeShows.com, you get early, ad-free access to more than a dozen of your favorite wrestling podcasts, starting at just $9! And now, you can enjoy the first week...completely FREE! Sign up for a free trial - and get a taste of what Ad Free Shows is all about. Start your free trial today at AdFreeShows.com If your business targets 25-54 year old men, there's no better place to advertise than right here with us on Strictly Business. You've heard us do ads for some of the same companies for years...why? Because it works! And with our super targeted audience, there's very little waste. Go to AdvertiseWithEric.com now and find out more about advertising with Strictly Business. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Get rid of your credit card debt, get a lower monthly payment, and skip your next two house payments at save withconrad.com. NMLS number 65084, equal housing lender. You don't need perfect credit or money out of your pocket to save thousands with save withconrad.com. Find out how much money you can save right now at save with Conrad.com. How's it going, everyone? This is another edition of Strictly Business with Eric Bischoff, presented to you by the ad-free shows network and podcast heat. I am John Alba. I don't want to sit here and waste any more time because it has been a nightmare just trying to get this show off the ground. I'm joined by Eric. Eric Bischoff, we've been fighting through those technical difficulties, but we are dedicated to our strictly business listeners and viewers every single week here. How are you, my friend? Well, I was doing great until I encountered another technical issue, which I've been living with now for over almost two weeks, ever since our home got struck by lightning.

And I think I've determined that perhaps this big, beautiful desktop Mac took a hit, maybe during a surge. but for whatever reason, we're going to stumble through this with my laptop and see if this works. Okay. Sounds good to me. I don't want to waste any more time. This has been a wild and very weird week with the pro wrestling world with some news that, unfortunately, a lot more bad than good, but we will talk about some very interesting stuff as well. We do have to begin by starting this episode in discussing the newest piece of information, which is a piece of information that will very like. affect the biggest show in AW history. That is Cash Wheeler's arrest. Daniel Wheeler,

tag team champion, all elite wrestling, was arrested Friday morning by the Orlando Police Department and charged with one count of aggravated assault with a firearm. He was booked in the circuit court, according to County Records, this coming from the Orlando Sentinel initially. According to County Records, Wheeler's alleged offense was committed on July 27th, and a warrant was issued July 28th for his arrest. On August 3rd, his attorneys issued a written plea of not guilty and his appearance at a pretrial conference was waived on that day. His arrest affidavit was filed August 18th and a first appearance in court happened earlier today. At that first appearance, Eric, it was essentially announced that this was a case of road rage where he waved a gun at a stranger. We don't know any more details other

than that at this moment in time. But as I mentioned earlier, this is likely going to have a significant effect on at least one of the premium promoted matches on the all-in card ftr versus the young bucks your initial reaction absolutely disappointed for everybody involved from tony con the rest of the staff at a ew and certainly you know cash and and and dax and i just can't think of a worse situation you know when you think about it you know i i first met ftr when i was in wwee back in 2019. Very classy guys, super professional. Never really had to work with them directly, but really, really got a good vibe from them and was very happy for them to get an opportunity in AEW. And I love their presentation. I love what they represent. You know, FTR represents

the favorite style, I guess, a presentation of professional wrestling, at least that I enjoy. It's more of a traditional, I don't want to say, throwback, but it is a throwback in many respects. And I really love their work. I didn't get to know either one of them on a personal level, but here is, you know, they were frustrated in WW because they weren't really getting the opportunities that they hoped that would get there. They got to AEW probably went through a few struggles there in terms of getting the opportunities there that they helped for. But they stuck with it. They claw, they fought, they worked, they committed, and now made it to this opportunity coming up in

Wembley to probably, well, not probably, there's no question about it, perform in front of the largest crowd they could ever dream of performing in front of. And now this. And in all likelihood, Mr. Wheeler's not going to be leaving the country, or if he is leaving the country, I doubt that he's going to be able to get into the UK. I could be wrong. I'm not a lawyer. I don't know immigration law, but I know how tough it is, for example, to get into Canada if you've been charged with a DUI or convicted of a DUI. Here, there's a charge but no conviction. So I'm not sure if that provides some leeway in opportunity. But what a freaking mess. What a mess. Yeah. Regardless of whether there are different.

and getting him to the UK, you have to look back further because even though the arrest happened, he turned himself in as we tape this. It's Friday. He turned himself in Thursday night. The hearing suggested, as I said before, the warrant was issued at the end of July, which is two and a half weeks ago going on now. He has appeared on AW television multiple times since then. So that tells you, Eric, one of two things happened. Either there was. was an arrest warrant out for him he told tony con and a w and they let him on tv or there was an arrest warrant out for him and he didn't tell anybody and he was working with that hanging over him without anybody knowing and that obviously puts a w in a pretty damn tough situation i

personally would be very surprised if they were aware of it sean ross sap reported via fightful select that those they spoke to an a w were completely blindsided by the news today that itself eric if you had a talent who didn't make the company aware of an arrest warrant standing out as they're about to go to the uk for a gigantic 80,000 person show what a mess that is is it not yeah it's going to come down to one or two things either Tony made a tony con made a very very bad mistake by being aware of the situation and moving forward anyway which i kind of doubt out or Mr. Wheeler really fucked up. Then it's on him.

And in either scenario, it's bad news. John, I just, it's shocking to me, really. Yeah. You know, especially as something as stupid as a road rage incident. You know, you never point a gun or flash a gun or even tell somebody you're carrying a gun or you have a gun in your car in a confrontation like this. because that just escalates. It makes situations worse.

You know, I mean, I'm a believer in the Second Amendment. I believe that people should be able to defend themselves. But with that comes a fair amount of responsibility. Certainly. And brandishing a weapon, unless you're ready to use it, because someone else has brandished a weapon or you otherwise feel like your life is in danger, is a stupid, stupid, irresponsible thing.

to do and i i can't comprehend it you know i i know what road rage feels like i've i've been involved in it on both ends and i know how it escalates and how stupid it is i'm not being critical of of necessarily getting into a situation where there's a road rage it's and again and we don't know anything either we don't know right again this is a this is an allegation and a charge at this point. There's always two sides to a story. But, man, if you, if you have access to a weapon, the last thing that you should do is use it to intimidate somebody. That is a stupid, stupid mistake. Yeah. And again, if it's true, let's, let's, let's point out. We don't know that it's true. This is a charge and an allegation. And it's one side of a story. Yeah. I'm anxious to hear the rest of it.

I'm hoping that there's a different explanation or set of circumstances that we're unaware of yet that will mitigate what appears to be a really impulsive stupid move. I hope for FTR's sake, for Mr. Wheeler's sake, for AEW's sake, that that is the case. Yeah. Again, the way I look at it, because as you said, still a lot of uncertainty about this, the way I look at it is something that is a cold, hard fact, is that, that there was an arrest warrant that's been out since the end of July. And yet he was there working television for several weeks

promoting one of the signature matches on the pay-per-view. So it is undoubtedly one of the two things where AW is aware and let it happen or AW had no idea and this was being hidden from them, which I tend to believe, given how precautionary Tony Kahn has been in the past with a lot of legal stuff, that that's probably more the case. I mean, you know firsthand that after seeing all the brawl out stuff last year, that was a much less significant legal matter that Tony was extremely by the books about. So I'd be very surprised if this was an incident where AEW was aware.

But who's to say? It's something we're going to find out. And here's the thing, John, and that's the optimistic way of looking at it. And I hope that that is true. I want to be optimistic. But you have to also recognize that Tony's leadership. over the last six months has drawn a lot of questions. Sure.

I mean, we're going to talk about CM Punk and keeping people away from each other and sending people home because CM Punk doesn't want to make. If any of that's true, we don't know that that's true either. Most of this is coming from Dave Meltzer. I'm not suggesting it is true, but the picture that it paints, the perception that it paints for AEW as a brand and its management and leadership, this is just another black mark at a time when you know they're going into media negotiations they're trying to to establish their saturday night show it's it's just it's just there's just so much

ridiculous stuff going on that it's hard to just take any one side well it's just the worst timing right you've got this show coming up here at wembley you've got a pay-per-view the week after that where this should be the biggest layup ever for positive PR for your company you have an opportunity to put 80,000 plus fans and present the biggest show ever and in this case as I said a featured main event caliber match that was going to blow off two and a half years worth of feud all of it to potentially come crashing down before your eyes there amidst all the other drama going on it just seems like this has been a microcosm of some of the things that have have been going on in that company for the last year plus.

And I mean, do you point to the top? And look, I don't want to, I don't want to beat up on Tony because I've been in Tony's shoes. Sure. Not, not exactly in this situation. Obviously, I've never had anybody involved with a gun incident that was a part of my roster. But certainly enough other things that were questionable.

I've been in that spot. And I understand the pressure that Tony is under. So it's, you know, I really, you know, I really, you know, I'm critical of AEW when I feel I have caused to be when I'm asked a question by somebody in the media or whether it's on 83 weeks or here when questions come up. I give an honest opinion. I'm not, I don't sugarcoat much. You know what I mean?

And at the same time, I don't necessarily take any particular joy in pointing certain things out. But it is what it is. And you can't look at the last six or 12 months of AEW. you and walk away from it and go, you know, Tony's doing a great job leading the company. It's a freaking mess.

And at some point, you've got to get a handle on it. Again, I don't want to go too deep into the CM Punk and MP and the elite and the bit all the fucking childlike juvenile bullshit that we're reading about because a lot of it's coming from Dave Meltzer, who was a cancer on the business. And I'm sure in the beginning when I was critical of Dave,

I've been critical of Dave Meltzer since probably 1993. But I'm sure, like, to talk about, you know, can't figure out why I've got such a thing against Dave Meltzer. And we're seeing it now. You know, if you look at, if you look at all of the reporting coming out, everything that I see on the different news sites, it's all per Dave Meltzer, per day. Well, where's Dave Meltzer getting his information? A lot of the. Is he getting it from Tony Con? Is he getting it from his buddies in the AEW who are supposedly executive vice presidents and officers of the company?

Where exactly is Dave getting all of his stuff? Or is he just making his shit up? I don't know. I don't think so. I think somebody's feeding of things. And that's why I believe Dave Meltzer is a cancer to this business. And if Tony Con didn't agree with me previously, I'm sure he's probably leaning into it a little bit now. I mean, to be fair, a lot of the.

these reports, particularly with the CM Punk stuff, have been corroborated by pretty much every major outlet that breaks news. Sean Rossap with Fightful, PW Insider, Pro Wrestling Torch, all of them have corroborated the reporting here, and some have expanded more than others on the situation at hand. And it is going to be one of those situations, right, where you have two sides of the story. there are going to be people who claimed well this person was kicked out because of this and then there's going to say no that's bullshit they weren't kicked out because of this they were removed because of this and this particular reporting started with the ryan nemith situation where ryan nemith who was involved in an altercation with cm punk backstage a few months ago

reportedly was removed from collision just this past week after he was brought to the arena and Hangman Page was allegedly brought to the arena as well for pre-tape and then told to leave, which CM Punk side has adamantly denied. We've heard that Matt Hardy and Christopher Daniels were also in the past brought to collision tapings and then asked to leave. And this whole collision show, as we know, Eric, has been pretty much branded as the CM Punk show. So naturally, all signs are going to point in one direction as a result of it.

Do you make anything of the he said, she said? nature of this? Yeah, I do. Regardless of who's corroborating it. And again, most of the news sites I'm reading are referencing Dave Meltzer. And I appreciate the fact that others have corroborated it. But it still remain, the problem, the lack of leadership, the lack of professionalism is manifested by somebody is talking to these outside news sites. this is internal business this should be dealt with internally and it's not there are too many people talking outside of the office this is in my opinion proprietary confidential information that shouldn't be shared with anybody if you're a talent if there's not if there aren't clauses

in those agreements that prohibit and outline what talent can and can't say about the business of AEW's business, then they're damn well should be. And if it is in there and it's not being enforced and nobody's head is rolling, now it comes back to leadership. The point is, this is internal AEW business, no different than their legal department, no different than their financial department, No different than any other aspect of business. And to have people that you have under contract or perhaps employees talking to anybody outside of the company about what's going on with personnel and with operations is so fucking inappropriate and damaging.

It's, I don't know what it is about the professional wrestling business. Maybe it exists everywhere. But I've never seen the temptation or the. inclination to self-destruct the way you see it right now. It's the C and punk situation that we've all known about in the past and the brawls and the executive vice presidents involved in it. I mean, my God, it's just mind-numbing to me the lack of professionalism. And again, I'm not going to say, it's never happened to me. It did happen to me. I've experienced it, which is why I have a fair amount of empathy for Tony Con right now. I'm leaning into defending

them but but not without being honest about his part in it this is a lack of leadership it's a lack of control it's a lack of management it is the the literally the the inmates running the asylum at this point and the entire company looks like giant clown car filled with juvenile unprofessional self-absorbed children not all of them obviously i don't want to cast such a a broad net, but I've never seen anything like this. Could you imagine if Tony Kahn would have been able to buy WWE? You can't manage a clown car at this point. It's so embarrassing.

I'm embarrassed for Tony. I really truly am. As far as the whole talking to the media about the things going on in the company, that's something that happens across all sports and all. entities that are in that nature. I mean, that's how contract news comes out in the sports world, or if a manager is

going to get fired in baseball because he's losing the clubhouse, it's because the players are talking to media members about it. Or their agents. Or their agents. Right. But the information is getting out. It's usually not the players themselves. It's their agents.

It's their managers. It's people associated with them. And that's a game that's played. that's, you know, negotiating in public. This is different than that. This is different. This is self-destructive behavior. I just, we know way too much, or we think we do, based on what's reported.

It's, ugh, what fucking mess. And all of it going into what should be one of the most exciting, I mean, if anything is going to galvanize your team, your roster, your company, your employees, your staff, your people that you have under contract, whatever. If anything is going to galvanize them, it's a moment like they're about to experience in Wembley. My God, they're sold over 80,000 tickets. There is so much to be proud of and grateful for, but rather than being proud of it and grateful for it and coming together, despite people's differences in their personal juvenile bullshit, they're tearing each other apart. And they're doing it in such a public fashion that it's hurting the brand.

It's hurting the company. And what makes it worse, and we'll get into this, I'm sure, in a little bit. But, you know, last night I found myself defending AEW on social media because everybody's bitching all. We don't know what the card is. There has been on the bill. The bleed, the baby, typical fucking internet whiny bullshit, right? And I'm thinking to myself, wait a minute, they sold 80,000 freaking tickets.

It's a strategy that's working. You and I talked about it early on before Punk ever, you know, officially made his way back. And in the subject of Wembley came up because it had previously been a, announced before punk came back and he said don't announce punk don't announce anybody don't build this event around anyone or more people build it around the brand a e w is coming to wimbly that's what will pay dividends and guess what not that anybody was listening to you or i on this podcast i'm not suggesting that but that's what they did and it worked and i i guess i do want to segue into this because I'm done talking about the dirty cheap trivia.

I'm a fucking unprofessional nonsense. It seems to be the core of what makes AEW today. But I was thinking about this this morning, knowing we were going to do the show and reacting to some of the things that I was reacting to less than on social media. When I launch, it's not about me, but I have to give examples.

I'm going to go farther back. Give context, baby. That's what we love here. Vernanya, when I worked for Verngania, I came in. I didn't know anything about the professional wrestling business other than I was a fan of it.

I enjoyed wedding. I never thought twice about how it all worked and the business of it. I just liked watching it. And I got this incredible opportunity to work under Vernegania and learned so much of what Vern had learned in the decades previous to that.

Up until the time, Vern Ganya literally had to move out of his office because he had to shut his company down. He kept that company afloat for four or five years out of his own fortune. He was losing money every year, but he stuck with it because he believed he could turn things around. And more importantly, he believed that Vince McMahon would fail. He didn't think that the way Vince McMahon was operating, again, going nationwide,

spending all of the money in production, putting those big names out on television. He thought that the audience would tire of it and that they would go back to the way professional wrestling used to be during Vern's heyday. Vern wasn't alone. Jerry Jarrett thought that until he couldn't afford to stay in business any longer.

Bill Watts brought that psychology or that belief in way of doing business to WCW until he failed. And things change. And when things change, you have to do things differently. Vince McMahon sure did. And look where we are today.

But there's $9.3 billion company that's got an international footprint. He changed the paradigm. Vince McMahon changed the way the business had traditionally, functioned and operated i did wcw when i was hired there as an announcer was trying to do things the way vince mcman was doing them and they failed miserably they needed to do something different i was the catalyst for that going live you don't remember this i doubt you remember this you

i wouldn't expect you to but when i was putting on main event quality television. When I was bringing our big names and having our big stars on weekly television instead of saving it for pay-per-view, all the peripheral dirt sheet media, oh my God, this is horrible. It's good. And this is never going to work. Oh, my God. The business is going to collapse. It didn't did it. It grew because we did things differently. And as Nitro evolved, and I learned because I was learning on the job. And I learned that rather than promoting your Matt, here's what's happening next week. Folks, this match and this match and this match. Most of it didn't really mean anything. It was just, yeah, we're promoting the show. I remember Jim Ross

used to sit down when I first started working. I worked for Jim Ross. I worked underneath Jim. He was my boss when I first got there. And Jim would show me, he would sit down and say, look, this is how I prep when I do my play by play. And he was just so fastidious. He was like OCD. He knew in every segment, whether he was promoting the WCW magazine, whether he was promoting the pay-per-view that it was coming up, whether we was promoting a house show schedule or a match is announced for a live event somewhere that wasn't televised. He had a list of about 20 things that he would promote in each episode. And I thought, man, that is impressive. And it was, but it didn't work anymore. I changed the way we produced television,

and I didn't want to promote what we were going to do next week. I wanted people to tune in to have to find out. That's called the CDVB. As opposed to promoting what you're going to do next week and giving the audience an opportunity to go, eh, that's not that interesting. I'll catch it next time. I wouldn't make sure that we produced that show in such a way,

and there were things that were going on in that show that you wanted to see the resolution of, but we didn't promote that resolution or the fact that there may be a resolution. We didn't promote it. Tune in next week. We're going to find out what's going to happen based on what we didn't do that. We let it hang and you had to tune in to find out. That was a pretty radical change in the business of the wrestling business. Nobody had ever done that before.

It was the exact opposite of the way everybody else did it for decades. And it worked. And the reason I'm saying all this and giving this context is, and the reason that I'm defending the fact that, that they didn't promote the show, they didn't promote matches, is because it's the brand that sold 80,000 tickets.

It's not CMPong. It's not Chris Jericho. It's not any of the former WWE talent. People are buying tickets hoping to see them, but it's the AEW brand that sold those tickets. 80,000 of them, by the way, or more. And I think that is an amazing accomplishment,

and I think, yes, it's different. I understand that the audience is used to seeing more build. I get that. But the audience isn't used to seeing 80,000 people in an arena. And what I would love for people to do is just wait and see. Wait and see how this event comes off before you decide it was done improperly. Right? And I know that sounds weird because anybody that's,

listen to me knows, I'm, I am not shy about being critical of things that I believe are true. Based on experience, not my gut feeling, not my instinct, my experience, the good experiences and the bad. It gives me a unique perspective. And I'm really hoping that the audience shut the fuck up and enjoy the show. And if there's a reason to be critical of that, show afterwards, if it comes off like a glorified house show, I'm going to be right there picking it apart. But why pick it apart before it even happens? Or pick it apart because Tony is doing something that is different than, which I believe in, different than the way it used to be done. If AEW goes out and produces a show, that event, and you engage, I've said it a couple times

in the last few weeks. AW has an opportunity to have 80,000 stars of that show on television. The stars are going to be the audience. That audience is going to determine how successful that show is or isn't. Not me. Spewing my bullshit. Certainly not the internet wrestling community who fees off of that bullshit. It'll be the 80,000 people that bought a ticket and their reaction.

to that show that will determine whether that shows a success. And we're not going to know until it's over. But this certainly doesn't help. This certainly doesn't help. You know, and I made a comment on my social media post last night. I said, wait a minute, there's 80,000 people sitting around with tickets in their back pocket waiting for this event. Are any of those people bitching?

Well, some of them responded to me. And they were disappointed. You know, they were still excited about the show, but they were disappointed that there's not more of a bill. Let me point out something else. Context. On average, 50,000 people watch AEW in the UK every week. They've sold 80,000 tickets for an audience of 50,000. Television isn't driving this. Stories are not driving this. Those 80,000 tickets weren't sold because they're absolutely engaged in the AEW storytelling, which by the way, I think is almost non-existent unless you want to really, really, really look at some of the things that are

going on there and suggest that it's actually a story. It isn't in my book in terms of structure, discipline, and all the other things I've talked about too much already. People are buying a ticket to that event because it's AEW, it's brand new, is an alternative, and they want to see for themselves what it is. That's the reason they're buying tickets, not because of any story, any angle, yes, an aggregate, the talent that's on the car, that's obviously important, but they're buying the ticket primarily because they want to be a part of something really big. And if Tony is able to, AEW as a whole, is able to knock it out of the park, they have an opportunity to take a giant leap forward. Eric, I am so excited to take a pause here and talk about our newest

friend of the show, a business I've been supporting for a very long time, and that is Hello Fresh. We are in the dog days of summer. I am out wheeling and dealing on the grill every single day. And I'm using fresh ingredients from Hello Fresh. With Hello Fresh, you get farm fresh pre-portioned ingredients and seasonal recipes delivered right to your doorstep. Skip trips to the grocery store and count on Hello Fresh to make home cooking easy, fun, and affordable. That's why it is America's number one meal kit. And even though we are in those final days of summer, it's okay to understand that fall is right around the corner. And Hello Fresh is here to help you plan for the busy season ahead with tasty dishes delivered

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happens with the freelance like. So I don't necessarily get an opportunity. to go to the grocery store, but I love cooking. And I know Eric loves cooking as well. So you want to make sure that you are putting the best high-quality ingredients in your body while still exercising the creative freedom of cooking. And that is exactly what Hello Fresh allows me to do. And it's so simple, too. It's right at your door.

The instructions are there. I usually like to eyeball when I'm making recipes. But when I have Hello Fresh right in front of me, I don't need to. It tells me exactly how to do with pictures. and everything. I'm not necessarily the smartest guy when it comes to reading comprehension sometimes. So I have to make sure that I get those visual aids

and HelloFresh helps as well. So go to HelloFresh.com slash 50 wrestle biz and use code 50 wrestle biz for 50% off plus free shipping. That's 50 W-R-E-S-T-L-E-B-I-Z and use code 50-W-R-E-S-T-L-L-L-E-B-E-E-E-E-S-E-E-E-E-E-E-E-S-E-E-E-E. E-I-Z at hellofresh.com slash 50 wrestlebiz for 50% off plus free shipping. America's number one meal kit is HelloFresh, and we thank them for sponsoring strictly business. They also have an opportunity to shit the bed in an amazing way with 80,000 people.

So I understand the pleasure. I think you're right, though, entirely. And that's something that we've said in the past on the podcast where this is almost like a first impression for AW. They get another chance of the first impression with a show like this because they've never done anything like this. They're an entirely different territory than they're used to running. It is an opportunity to attract a whole brand new set of eyes internationally to the product. And I think that's why fans have had such high expectations for this card and what they're going to see. Like as far as I see it, Eric, if there was ever a time

for Tony Kahn to go and do the biggest dream matches of his life and everything he's wanted to, this Wembley card at all in is probably the time to do that I think that people know whether or not they're going to buy this show I don't think they're going to look at this card three weeks out and be like eh, not really feeling it.

They're going to know if they want to tune in and purchase a show that has 80,000 people and it stands for it with a ruckus crowd. And I'm in your boat entirely on that because truthfully, they don't really need to have that card put out until the day of the event. And if there are any last minute buyers, they'll decide then, is this card good enough for me? But I think the whole idea of the event is what is selling it.

The whole idea that there will be this new crowd that is seeing this product for the first time and that there are going to be some big matches on it. That sells itself alone. I do think some people were a little critical this week, discourse-wise, at the lack of singles matches on the card. Because as of now, I believe there were only two singles matches announced for the entire card. That's bad. That's bad booking. I'm sorry.

I understand that. Because that means there's a personal story that's going to take place. This is a quality that will tell you. And I sound like I'm contradicting myself, right? But when you've got singles and doubles and trios and five man, six man

tags and all that bullshit, it's really hard to have a dramatic storytelling match with that many people. Sure. When you've got a good guy and a bad guy and you can tell that good guy, bad guy story in a way, you play it out in the ring, in a way that the audience can invest in it, that's your best opportunity to create emotion. What you're doing with tags and six-mans and battle royals and all that bullshit is you're

creating a spectacle. A spectacle doesn't create emotion. It gets interest, but it doesn't. doesn't create a motion so that that could be fire yeah and again they lucked out that their hottest singles match is their main event with mjf and adam colin that has been one of the best stories they've told on a w tv in a long while but again as we talked about last week they're also throwing them on the pre show so we'll see that's like mick jagger coming out and warming up solo for the rolling stones like what the fuck yeah rolling so's going to

be in concerted. Mick Jagger's going to open up for him. What the fuck? Yeah. I talked to some people at AEW this week, and they were equally as confused by that happening, but... And again, maybe we're wrong. Maybe it'll be this resounding success. Maybe there's something in the plans

that will make me go, damn, I should have saw that coming. That was excellent. But I'm also going to say, I'm going to balance that. I haven't seen anything yet out of AEW that would suggest that's a possibility. I think they're going to hit a story beat with it and that's great and all. I really do think like having story beats

is so important, but it feels like that's something that you could just easily put on a dynamite or something. That's what television is for. Right, right, right. Exactly. That's what I mean. So it is interesting, but I want to say that little sidebar that you just went on, I think that was

one of the best things I've ever heard from you on air in any of your podcast. You gave some great context there and it was all very measured and you walked that line really well there. And it stemmed a thought from me that I'd love to spend, we could spend the rest of this podcast talking about it from you. What is a draw in wrestling in 2023? We used to talk about, oh, well, Hulk Hogan, he's the draw, right?

The Rock, he's the draw. Stone Cold C. Vosson, he's the draw. That's in an era where the gate was primarily your moneymaker, how many tickets you're selling, the live event was what was earning people money versus now where the landscape has totally changed and how money is made. I disagree, dude.

Paperview was the cash cow. The margins for pay-per-view were astronomical. Well, I'm talking about how talent earned money. Like, talent earned money through the live events, right? Like, not just house shows, but TV, pay-per-views, live events. All of that is how talent earned money. they had downside guarantees. When Paul White left WCW, he went to WWE for guaranteed million a year for 10 years, regardless of what happened at the house shows or on the pay-per-views

or his merchandise or anything else. Yes, in WWE or early WWF, yes, house shows drove, live events drove a lot of the paychecks that talent received. But that changed in the 90s. It hasn't been that way for a long time. We may be in the final days of summer, but let me tell you something, brother. That's not stopping me from going to the beach like every single day. And now it's time to unleash the beach beast within you. This summer manscape is here to help you level up your beach game

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conrad sits down with a pioneer of wrestling television production director dan bynum who discusses his journey through wcw r o h m lw and where it all began for him world class what really was the the thing that that catapulted it was one working with rick flayer he came to the territory and wrestled with the Von Erick Boys and gave us so much gravitas and two, the greatest feud in the history of wrestling, the Free Bird Von Erick feud. So we were there at the hottest time with the hottest show and we took over the world. The Yette, Ron Reese, sits down with ad-free shows members to talk about his infamous night at Halloween Havoc and how it was received by the boys in the back.

Oh, no. I remember, like, Arne Anderson told me that that was the drizzling shit and Dusty Rose was like, that was the worst thing I've ever seen. I'm just like, hey, thanks. Hey, that's just a small taste of what AdFree shows has waiting for you, including a brand new perk, getting to join in on the live recordings of the shows with four levels to choose from. See for yourself while AdFree shows is the best value in wrestling today. Sign up now at atfreeshoes.com. That's right. Sign up today at atfreyshows.com. So then even so, the whole CM Punk hangman page drama stemmed from a promo where punk basically said, I'm a draw and you're not. And it made me think, are there actual individual draws in wrestling in 2023?

Or is it, as you were just talking about, the brand? WWE this week put WrestleMania 40 tickets on sale and by my accounts they did record numbers for pre-sales and if you just look at what's available out there right now there's barely any tickets left and they haven't announced and they haven't announced the card have they we're six months out from them announcing a single match for that card and that kind of proves my point WWE and I think WWE for a long time

and I never talked to Vince about this when I worked with him I spent a lot of time talking to Vince I've reported directly to him, and we spent more hours than I care to remember just one-on-one and in small groups. And I never talked to him about this, but it's my clear belief, my strong belief, that at some point in time, probably around the time that Steve, Steve Austin was frustrated with creative and said, fuck it, I'm going home and walked out. I think either then or shortly before, shortly thereafter, Vincent, I can't, I can't allow

this company to be built around any one star. WWE has to be the star. And yes, the WWE is comprised and is represented by all of these superstars, but it's the brand that people are buying into, not any one person. And again, that's one of the reasons why I am supportive and will continue to be supportive of AEW for not relying on any one piece of talent, because I don't, I no longer think that's the way to do business. CM Punk is a draw.

I don't like him. I think he's unprofessional. I think he's highly overrated. I don't think he's worth nearly the amount of money or the compromises that Tony Khan is making along the way. And I think that will, Tony will realize that at some point in time. This is the situation. And I said this before.

I said this soon as seen see him punk come back, came back. This is making a bad situation worse. You're bringing cancer into your company and you're not managing it. You're not managing that challenge the way you need to manage it. Rather than putting CM Punk in a box and reminding him that he's talent, he's not management, they gave him the keys to the kingdom and allegedly gave him the power to decide, oh,

our talent management executive, person for Daniel, I don't like him, so he shouldn't be in the show because my buddy isn't able to come to show. What the fuck? fuck is that if it's true it's going to get worse before it gets better at some point tony is going to have to learn how to be a leader he's going to have to take it on the chin just like i did with rick flair when i decided to sue rick flair because we couldn't work our shit out

and he was going public with his side of the story and i was reading about you know rick flair's issues on the front page of the atlanta journal constitution then it's like okay i can't play anymore, I have to do, I have to take a position. And it was a painful one to take. It still is. Rick Flair still resents me to this day for what I did. He hates when I even talk about it. But I was forced to do something, A, I didn't want to do, and B, something I knew was going to hurt financially. Because Rick had such an amazingly loyal fan base and deservedly so. But it was an ugly situation that escalated. It became public. And at a certain point, you've got to go, fuck it. I'm just going to take the hit. Because if you don't, it just

continues to get worse. And the people around, you know, the see and punk situation are going to continue to escalate because there's no reason not to. There's no, there's no punishment. There's no risk in mouthing off to the dirt sheets and, and pouring your heart out to anybody that'll listen, who will then pour it out to the dirt sheets, whatever the case may be. There are no ramifications. It's literally just the clowns driving the clown car. So then, as far as the draw conversation is concerned, how do you look at top stars?

Through what lens do you view them? In what way are they contributors to the brand recognition? Massively. That's their responsibility to help build the brand. That's what they're getting paid for. in some cases millions and millions and millions and millions of dollars more than are actually worth on the open market but tony's willing to take that chance and to fund it for for his whatever his vision is uh their responsibility is to contribute in building brand even if it

means putting up with situations that they really don't like fuck everybody that i know that has a job has to put up with situations every single day and work with people every single day and are assigned to do things. They absolutely detesting every single day, but that's what you're getting paid for. Everybody, look, every talent that is on that card is an important part of that roster. If you see a red light on a television camera, you're important. And what makes you important is you're there to help build the brand and move the business forward. Not your own personal agenda, not so you can work with your buddies and not have to work with people you don't like. I've worked with plenty of, I don't have to like somebody to work with them.

I have to respect them. I have to trust them. That's a different issue. I don't have to like them. I wrote a lot of people that I wouldn't go out and have a beer with if they paid me. If I saw him walking down the street and heading in my direction, I crossed the street just to avoid them because I wouldn't want to make eye contact or have to have conversation with them. Working a lot of people like that, but they never knew.

that you have to sit across from me every week here and you have to force yourself to stomach that oh no i love you god i love you committed to your craft and i have had a beer with you so there i you have multiple you were driving and i was drinking but that's a different i was not drinking for the record no for the record you were not let's step aside for a second eric to remind the strictly business listeners out there that this episode of strictly business is presented by blue chew let's talk about sex, gentlemen. Guys, remember the days, and it might have been a while ago. It's okay if it was. It might have even been just a few weeks ago when you were always ready to go on a moment's notice. No shame. Our bodies change. Now you can increase your performance and get

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special deal for our listeners try bluechew free when use our promo code wrestle biz that's w r-st-tly b-z at checkout just pay five dollar shipping that's bluechew dot com promo code wrestlebiz to receive your first month absolutely free visit bluechew dot com for more details and important safety information and we thank blue chew for sponsoring strictly business uh no but that's all really that you say that because the wrestling industry for so long was viewed as this really selfish industry where it's like go out there make yourself a star make all the money you can and i still think all of that rings true in a way but the notion of what you just said it's like your job to be part of the team and be part of this brand and to enhance the brand and i think

wwe especially really does that very very well where even in just standard PR events that you see during pay-per-view weekends the way that these people represent the brand the way that john sina was conditioned to represent wwe in the public eye while also promoting himself as a superstar i think it's just an amazing example of just that and how much brand recognition and enhancement a guy like john sina was able to create an equity he created for wwe especially doing the make of wishes that wasn't just John Sina doing those acts of charity. That was WWE doing those acts of charity. No, and look, Vince McMahon has his critics and he's earned every one of them. Okay. I'm not defending some of the things that Vince has done in his personal life at all.

But I will say, and I will say this till the day I'm no longer able to say it, when it comes to leadership, Vince McMahon, whether you like him or not, with you. you agree with or can look the other way to some of the things he's, you know, allegedly been involved with in his personal life. It doesn't fucking matter. He's a leader. And it's that leadership that helped create John Sina and the rock and people like them. It's leadership.

And it's a firm hand when a firm hand needs to be available. it's not the inmates running the asylum and that that's what it takes in Tony and again I'm I'm going to defend Tony now I'm going to have some empathy not defend it but I will empathize with Tony because I learned on the job I was presented situations that I handled very poorly there were new situations to me I had never been in a situation like that and in some cases I made really bad decisions or choices. And Tony's going through the same thing. I hope that at some point in time, Tony has,

first of all, you have to have the capability as a person. You have to be wired in a certain way. We'll find out whether Tony is wired that way or not. But at some point in time, and you've probably seen it in the NFL or in Major League Baseball with coaches and managers and team owners and things like that, at a certain point in time,

you got to just draw a line saying, say, fuck it, dude, here's how this is going to work. If you don't like it, take a walk. Here is the terms of your contract. Here's how your contract's going to work. If you don't like it, I'll cut you loose. Or if you breach that contract, I'll take you to court. But at a certain point, you have to do that when situations like we've been seeing get out of control. And I can't imagine anybody doesn't recognize that what's going on in AEW is out of control.

And I don't want it to come off as it's piling on Tony by any stretch. Because I really do believe that Tony wants what's best for his employees, his company. You talk to. That's not enough. That's wanting it isn't enough, John. No, it's not. It's not. And I'm not done on that note.

I was just adding some additional context here. I think from a human being standpoint, like, I thought it was a total class move that Texas chainsaw massacre death match that they had this past week with Jeff Jared and Jeff Hardy was a sponsored thing. It was going to make them $100,000. And they chose to donate that $100,000 to the Maui fire relief rather than pocketed. And I thought that was a really classy move. I think that there are good intentions there.

But when even the best boss has good intentions, there have to be situations where you lay down the firm hand and say, no, this is not going to fly or we're going to talk this out and we're going to get through this or, hey, these are the ramifications of an incident like this, whatever it may be specifically. I think we all want that structure to be in place because we want to see success for any company. Look, it's great to have good intentions.

It's great to be a classy person. It's great to have a good heart. it's great to be generous it's great to have empathy and compassion none of those necessarily mean you're a good leader right and that's what we've been seeing so far and again i want to get off this because it's i keep going back to to tony again and i really don't i want tony to be successful i want a i want this event and wembley to be so good that everybody forgets about all this mischigas forgets about all this stupid shit that's been going on that we're reading about I'm hearing about and is damaging the perception of the brand.

All you need to do is look at some of the comments that, you know, when I read a story on Wrestling Inc, I kind of half-past pay attention to the story, but I go right to the comments because the comments will tell you what the general audience is feeling about the product. And in the beginning of AEW, every comment was supportive and looked past the obvious flaws. But AEW is losing the confidence of their audience. They're losing, they're holding on to a certain hardcore aspect of it. And you have to set Wembley aside. It's a unique situation.

But domestically here in the United States, where they do 98% of their business, I think the perception of the brain is becoming damaged because of the lack of that leadership. And I hope Wembley provides an opportunity to just move beyond all of this. this stuff, galvanize the roster, weed out those people that just can't seem to be to get with the team aspect of what they're doing and move forward with those that, that do, because there's a lot of talent there. You're, you don't, you're not dependent upon CM Punk. You're not dependent on anyone, but you're not dependent on anyone person. And if you are, you're setting yourself up for failure. Putting a bow tie on the brand conversation and the draw conversation.

And I guess my thought here is then what's the point of even going out and trying to sign big names if this is all ultimately about the brand? Like what role do they play? Because those big names make the brand. Roman Reyes makes the brand. So like hypothetically speaking here, this has been all over the internet this week, Edge, he's said in an interview, this match against Seamus as we tape this tonight in WWE, that's his last match on his contract. he's his contract is up after this and naturally there's going to be chatter of well well tony try to go and grab them since all of edge's friends are in a w right now could that happen like is that truly going to make a tangible

enhancement in your brand if he hypothetically went out and got a guy with the name equity of edge or does it not matter at the end of the day i don't know let's did it really matter of christian jump ship did it matter of there's a difference between them and i I don't mean that with disrespect to Christian. I mean, I think Edge is one of the most popularly WWE champions of his era. And Christian is amazing and well regarded as this incredible worker. But Edge is the type of guy that a lot of kids grew up watching and said,

wow, that guy was my favorite wrestler. I think the answer to your question is possibly. But if I'm Edge, first of all, you know, I don't know. Adam, we've had some great conversations. And I think there's, I know I respect him a ton. And, you know, he's at a stage in his life where I'm not sure he wants to continue wrestling. You know, I don't think he needs to continue wrestling. He's a great actor, by the way.

He's got chops. He's got a reel. He's got some credits. And at this stage in his life, I would guess more than anything, he's ready to either move on or perhaps this is a contract negotiation. And we're going to get right up to the line. And he's going to get an offer and he's either going to take it or leave it. I don't see him jumping ship.

I really don't. I could be wrong. He easily could be wrong. But even if he does, I don't see that making a big difference in the AW. It historically has not. That's more what I was trying to pinpoint there. Does it truly matter? I think it would generate a lot of chatter.

And I think temporarily it would generate a lot of eyes. I think people just become numb to this stuff, ultimately at the end of the day, when there's so much going back and forth. I really think the only one that just made such a tremendous difference, truthfully, was Cody making the jump to WW. just because of all the crazy circumstances that came with that. And we see tangibly, Eric, that it continues to be a major difference maker for WWE.

There was this amazing video. I'm going to have to send it to you. Cody was in Philadelphia this week promoting WrestleMania ticket sales. And he's just walking across the street. They're filming him. And this guy walks out of a bank across the street. And he, he's like, oh, my God, that's Cody Rhodes. And he fleaks him like he sees Paul.

McCartney in the streets like it's 1964. He's freaking out. And I said, man, this guy is so close to becoming bigger than the business. And I really think that that takes a special type of person at this stage in the game with pro wrestling. And I think he's knocking on that John Sina door. I really do. I don't disagree. He's a class, you know, AEW didn't make Cody Rhodes. Cody Rhodes made Cody Rose. Cody Rhodes the day he quit WWE and stood up for himself. what he believed him. And I'll never forget, I sent him a text. But the day I read it, I was in Los Angeles sitting in a restaurant over on sunset and the, the 405, whatever that circular hotel is there. It's changed names. It's a boutique hotel now. But I was up in a restaurant and I

heard it. And I sent Cody a text, letting him know that his dad would be proud because he stood up for himself. He took a chance. He went to AEW. He presented himself in the way that he felt comfortable with until he no longer believed in what was going on in AEW, and then he did the same thing again, which his father would have done, by the way. Dusty Rhodes believed in Dusty Rhodes, and Cody is so much like Dusty. It's unbelievable to me. And Cody went to WWE. WWE capitalized on it, saw it. Cody Rhodes made Cody Rhodes, but Cody Rhodes will be associated now with WWE or people other than a hardcore wrestling fan. They'll forget that he spent a cup of coffee in an AEW.

He's become that big of a star. And I will also say WWE didn't make Cody Rhodes a star. Cody Rhodes made Cody Rhodes a star. Absolutely 100%. WWWWWWE, the brand benefited from it. We're smart enough to take advantage of it, went to an extreme, including Vince McMahon,

flying himself on a jet down to Cody Rhodes' home, which unless you know Vince McMahon personally, you can't comprehend what a big move that was. Cody made that happen. He deserves whatever whatever Cody Rhodes descends to in the stardom of this industry. He's earned it himself.

Nobody gave it to him. Certainly so, certainly so. There's plenty more to talk about business-wise the business, but I know you've got to get running here today. And I just want to kind of bring things together here at the end. this is not meant to be a let's be negative about the business of aEW episode or anything like that i think this was a very fair and straightforward assessment of the current situations at hand as we head into this major event in a week and a half here i think that then what happens in the next week

and a half will be pretty significant for the direction of aAU as a company going forward and how they play this situation with cash and punk and what type of show they present at all in and then subsequently the week after it all out, Eric, I think that's going to give us some degree of indication of where the future of this company is headed and how they handle these things. Is there anything else you'd like to add on this episode?

No, I'm going to repeat myself. I am hoping, really, just genuinely, genuinely want this event and I'm going to watch it. I want this event to, successfully wipe out all this stupid stuff, allow people to forget about it, embrace the success of the event, and let this event become a platform to move forward in a much more positive way. Agreed. That's what I want to see happen.

And I think it's possible. I think it's possible. Me too. All right, buddy. Definitely. Definitely. Folks, this has been a great episode of Strictly Business. We want you on board with us here.

Head on over to advertise with Eric.com. Get your business, get your product in front of thousands and thousands of listeners and viewers every single week on the 83 weeks feed. Head on over to 83 weeks.com and make sure you're subscribe there alongside ad freeshows.com. He's Eric Bishop. I'm John Alba. This has been Strictly Business. We'll see you next time.