83 Weeks with Eric Bischoff - Strictly Business with Eric Bischoff #44: Jade Cargill to WWE, WWE/UFC Merger, AEW Attendance

Episode Date: September 15, 2023

On this week's Strictly Business, Eric Bischoff and Jon Alba dive into the reports of Jade Cargill finishing up with AEW and potentially heading to WWE! They also discuss AEW's All In turnstile number discourse, and welcome in ESPN's Marc Raimondi to discuss the WWE/UFC merger. Special thanks to this week's sponsors! HelloFresh - Use promo code 50WrestleBiz at HelloFresh.com/50WrestleBiz to get 50% off your first order, plus 15% the next two months! FOLLOW ALL OF OUR SOCIAL MEDIA at https://83weekslinks.com/ Stop throwing your money on rent! Get into a house with NO MONEY DOWN and roughly the same monthly payment at SaveWithConrad.com On AdFreeShows.com, you get early, ad-free access to more than a dozen of your favorite wrestling podcasts, starting at just $9! And now, you can enjoy the first week...completely FREE! Sign up for a free trial - and get a taste of what Ad Free Shows is all about. Start your free trial today at AdFreeShows.com If your business targets 25-54 year old men, there's no better place to advertise than right here with us on Strictly Business. You've heard us do ads for some of the same companies for years...why? Because it works! And with our super targeted audience, there's very little waste. Go to AdvertiseWithEric.com now and find out more about advertising with Strictly Business. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Get rid of your credit card debt, get a lower monthly payment, and skip your next two house payments at save withconrad.com. NMLS number 65084, equal housing lender. You don't need perfect credit or money out of your pocket to save thousands with save withconrad.com. Find out how much money you can save right now at save with Conrad.com. What's going on wrestling fans? It's another edition of Strictly Business with Eric Bischoff here on the ad-free shows and podcast heat networks. I, of course, am John Alba. I am not the star Strictly Business.

Instead, I'm joined every single week by the man who took it to Vince McMahon for 83 weeks straight and far beyond that as well. Mr. Eric Bichshon. And across wild. Well, not really. It's just me and Nikki. Oh, boy. We had a great episode last week. We had Mel Coleman on to talk about her art. We had some great discussion as well on Strictly Business.

And we're bringing to you the business of the business every single week here. 83 weeks.com and ad free shows.com. What's going on, man? Anything good? Another day in paradise, Ben. recorded an 83 weeks early this morning. We're going to do this show. I've got some other stuff. I've got to work on the audio book version of Grateful

so that hopefully that'll be out by Christmas. So I've got to knock that up. Then I'm jumping in my car, driving to the airport. I'll be heading to Philadelphia for the weekend. Send some autograph, shaking some hands, and meeting some folks. I come back from that. I'm home for four days. And then Mrs. B. and I jump on another plane.

Only this time we're heading over to the U.K. We're going to be in England. London. We're going to be in Ireland. We're going to be in Scotland. Very nice. It's going to be a fun, fun 10 days looking forward to you. I know you're very excited for that. And Kenny McIntosh in the inside the ropes crew, they're going to take good care of you there. So I'm really looking forward to it. Kenny's a great guy. I love working with him. And the crowds are great. It's just, it's a fun time. And to be able to bring my wife is going to be fun. She's never been a part of anything like this with me,

really. And we're going to spend about an extra five or six days. They're just kicking around some castles having some local food and drink and just enjoying ourselves that sounds awesome you mentioned earlier you were recording 83 weeks of course you're an ad free shows subscriber you're gonna get early access to that and strictly business and over on ad free shows eric we actually recently had a chance to sit down with one of the real unique stories in the wrestling industry uh zach owen and i'm not actually sure if you knew this or not but turns out you played a pretty pivotal role and inspiring Zach to actually pursue his dream as a pro wrestler. Let's take a list.

I was on vacation with my family watching WCW Saturday night, and there was a Ray Mysterio versus Ultimo Dragon match. Okay. That was on. And for the first time of my life, I thought to myself, wow, I think I can do that. Because up until this point, pro wrestling, if you wanted to be a pro wrestling, wrestler, you had to be six foot six, two hundred eighty five pounds. And I would never, ever be six foot six, two hundred eighty five pounds. But when I saw the smaller, agile, more

athletic wrestlers, the luchadors, thanks to Eric Bischoff and, and the cruiserweight division in WCW at the time, uh, I thought to myself, wow, I can't be Hulk Hogan, but maybe I can be like the one-legged Ray Mysterio, the one-legged Ultimo Dragon. That's, you know what? One of the reasons that I'm so grateful for my career is just hearing something like that, you know, and people have asked me in the past, what do you want your legacy to be? Why? It is, it's going to be whatever it's going to be.

I don't really think about that kind of stuff too much. But if I did, I would like to think that a lot of the talent that we see today were inspired, either directly and admit it like, like Zach did, or were just inspired, consciously or subconsciously subconsciously to think that perhaps they can. And now you look at, you know, a lot of the biggest names in the industry today are guys that fall into that smaller, more athletic, faster-paced style type of a performer. And to any extent that WCW had a hand in that is that's something I'm proud of. And that interview made me feel really good.

Very much. So you can catch that full interview with Zach Gowen plus thousands of hours of other bonus content, all the great podcasts. I got the Extreme Life from Matt Hardy. you got 83 weeks so many out there do it now with our special offer here courtesy of strictly business new subscribers save 20% off their first month by going to eric save 20.com that's 20% off your first month right now at eric save 20.com so go join the ad free shows family it's a great community and we have a lot of fun doing these podcasts here like strictly business which drops early access every single

Thursday as long as scheduling permits. So, Eric, a big time story that broke last night, courtesy of Sean Ross Sapp, PW Insider, also endorsing the claim that her contract is coming up here and that there are changes expected. Jade Cargill reportedly on her way out of AEW. And Sean's report indicates that people from AEW and WW both believe she is coming in to WW. Jade has been presented as a big-time star since the get-go in AEW. That was her first exposure to the wrestling world. What's your reaction to the news? And what kind of potential do you think someone like Jade Cargill could have in a

WWE? Happy for her, if it's true. Happy for WWE, if it's true. I say if it's true because every report I've read so far this morning and there's only been a handful because it's relatively new information, at least for me. is that it's being reported that. It's not confirmed. It's just being reported.

So let's just see. And look, Jade, I maybe have met her, but I don't know her at all. I don't think I've ever had a real conversation with her. This would be an absolutely amazing opportunity for her. It's a risk. There's no doubt it would be a risk for her because she's walking into an environment she's still relatively green right she's new how long has she been around a couple years yeah and she's been around for just a few years in a very early early stage company meaning

it's not a touring company there's not four or five nights on the road it's it's not the same kind of workload as w so there's going to be a major transition there but if she's a young woman that is confident in herself and i believe her to be just following her on social media you get that impression. But if she's got the confidence and a determination, this could be massive for her. It could set her up for life. As far as AEW goes, you know, it's hard to say.

Why was she even in this position? Why would she even be willing to negotiate? There may be a good reason for it. Maybe a bad reason for it. We don't know. And it's hard to speculate on things you don't know anything about. I would imagine, with all of the other news floating around as of late, Tony doesn't really need one more negative dirt sheet news story.

So that's unfortunate for AEW, if it's true. But hey, life goes on. There's, who knows? Edge could be in AEW by this time tomorrow. At the time this episode drops. Yeah, and all of a sudden, you know, everything will turn around. So it's just the ebb and flow of performers. Well, it's interesting because should Jade make the jump,

I'm pretty sure that would make her the first homegrown AW talent to make the jump to WWE. Because A.W hasn't really had the opportunity to develop a ton of wrestlers because, as you said, it's still a relatively young company, all things considered. And Jade was someone who was brought in brand new to wrestling and immediately paired with Shaquille O'Neal against Cody Rob. I was actually there that night. It was a big deal. Yeah. I mean, talk about sink or swim, right? You're put in that position there where you're with Shaquille O'Neal and you're with Cody Rhodes. I know Cody played a big role in having her position in a spot like that. And I don't know, when I look at her, I just see someone, I see a Marvel character. I see a superhero or a super villain in Jade Cargill. Her presence is off the charts and the investment, the Goldberg style streak that they gave her where she didn't lose for 40 consecutive matches defending that title or whatever it was. It's clear to me, Eric, there is a larger-than-life presentation in the waiting for her.

Should she make the jump like that? What do you make of her potentially being the first homegrown talent to jump? And where could you see her fitting into a fold in WWE? Should she make that? You know, the whole homegrown thing, I don't really put a lot of stock into it. I don't think it has any real value other than a minimal, like, minuscule. Can I push back on that, though, real quick, not to cut you off. Sure, go ahead.

I think there is a little. little bit because AEW does not have a traditional developmental territory. They have the nightmare factory that Cody helps run and QT Marshall runs. They had Brian Danielson working with Jade Cargill, but they don't have a traditional

developmental. And that's why I could see that being relevant to the discussion because should she make the jump, I very much see her going to NXT rather than the main roster despite some of her equity. She may go through NXT. Look, I had a conversation, oh, I don't know when it was. Might have been on the Jericho cruise that was on several years ago

or maybe in a conversation I had with Chris afterwards. I don't remember that. Chris and I got into a really great conversation about his transition from WCW to WWE. And something, and I'm paraphrasing all of this now, so don't quote me on any of it. But, you know, Chris made a comment, several comments to the effect of how,

when he made up his mind that he was going to leave WCW, he was absolutely convinced he was ready for a WVE main event. And it wasn't until after Chris got to WWE that he realized how much he didn't really know and how much he had to learn to play at that level in WWE. That was a different level than WCW. And that number one, it struck me as really honest and I found it very, very fascinating to hear his perspective on that transition.

But I think Jade will have a similar transition. I kind of hinted about earlier. But I still don't think the lack of training ground or the homegrown talent factors into the equation. It was like in T&A. T&A put so much equity into the idea of homegrown talent. it was subtly marketed throughout the entire company and into the audience to a large degree through play-by-play in color commentary. And every time I heard it, it's man, you're not selling zucchini's here, folks.

Nobody cares if you grew it in your backyard. They only care about the quality of the zucchini. That's what matters to people, not whether they're homegrown or not. And that's why I just don't put my stock in it, man. I think, look, if there had been a training. facility or strategy in in AEW and she was able to get in here and work with a lot of the big names on a consistent basis maybe she would feel differently about AEW but I would imagine she made a decision based on nothing more than opportunity sure where is the biggest opportunity

for me in the future and any clear thinking person especially someone young like jade I mean physically she's like right out of central casting you know you refer to as a marvel character you know it's that it's right on the money i mean she's just she's an amazing physical specimen she's a beautiful girl woman i'm sorry and but she also has that something that oh yeah transcends her looks in her physique and it's charisma and that's what WWE saw in her, I'm sure, and I'm guessing

she looked at WWE and said, okay, if I had to bet on my future, where would I place that bet? I had one person pretty high up in AW tell me yesterday. Let's be real. Jade Cargill is WWE's wet dream

as far as what a pro wrestler should look like that she checks. Hard to deny that. Every box as And she's got charisma on top of it. And it's not enough to have those looks. That's a big part of it. That'll get you attention.

But it's the charisma that'll get you those seven figures. Yeah. And it's the presence, right? And you carry yourself like a superstar, which she has carried herself like a megastar. From day one. From day one. Literally from day one. Absolutely.

I think she will be an interesting experiment with WWE because with her being the first major person to make the jump, aside from Cody. Cody jumped as a superstar. Let's see how WWE treats these AEW jumpers. How will they be featured on television? How will they be presented? Do they get complete makeovers? Do they take what they had and mold that into something that fits more within WWE's parameters? I think that's going to be really interesting. Well, they're going to have, look, they're going to have to redefine her character. She's an L.S. Jade Kerger is her real name, which I don't know.

It is. It is her real name. Okay. She's going to be able to bring her name with her. But WWE historically, they're going to change that anyway to some degree because they want to own it. You want to be able to trademark it. Her name isn't that big outside of the AEW audience. She's not a household name by any stretch of the imagination. She's got a long way to grow. So I think they'll probably, you'll see some, you know, she'll be called something else most likely. She's going to learn the WWE system.

She's going to learn how to perform for television in a much different way than she's been exposed to an AEW. I can assure you of that. She's going to learn a lot. But I think she's going to be, if I'm, if I'm, I won't say Paul LeVec, because I just don't know Paul well enough to put myself in his shoes. But I do know Bruce Pritchard pretty well. And if I'm Bruce Pritchard, who was around when Steve Austin got fired from WCW and then, showed up in WWE and went on to become a massive star. I'm thinking to myself, this Jade, she could be our stone cold Steve Austin.

Wow. In the sense of taking her from, from, you know, WCW wasn't really competition for WWE at the time. It just wasn't. This was long before Nitro and all that. And I pulled the trigger on Steve and sent him packing and he showed up in ECW for a minute, found Stone Cold Steve Austin, took it over to WWE. he said no no no we want you to be the ringmaster you're going to be like the

psycho carnival guy and Steve tried that that didn't work and then he just went back to stone cold Steve Austin that he really developed inside the VCW and I'm telling you this because I sat across from Steve Austin for about five or six total hours doing two different podcasts over two days and this was Steve telling me again paraphrasing the story but Steve kind of found that Stone Cold Steve Austin character and when the ringmaster wasn't working out so well Steve was able to bring Stone Cold Steve Austin into raw and then boom the rest is history now Bruce Pritchard my good friend he knows the story really really well and if I'm Bruce Pritchard I'm thinking to myself I'm going to make a point

because if WWE is able to do with Jade what they did was Stone Cold Steve Austin now Steve had to force the issue a little bit, but if they can do with Jade, what WWE did for Steve Austin, after I let him go, that is going to send a message to every current and future talent in AEW as to where do you want to beat?

Where does your future lie? That's like some Sun Tzu kind of ninja wrestling warrior shit, but that's how great. minds think. Well, and I think she's someone that can be a big time, big time star in WWE. There's a lot of people who echo that sentiment and how could you not? But what I do love about the whole situation, Eric, is that it has been a long time in pro wrestling since we've had this unpredictability of contracts expiring and people jumping. And this is one of the

beauties of AW that has allowed is that free agency really means something. so here's jade potentially making this jump to wwe we're hearing these reports as you just said that edge adam copeland maybe he's out there making a jump to a w we know mercedes mona sasha banks is out there maybe she's making a jump to aew and in the future maybe a ricky starks or someone like that would make the jump to eight to w w e that is so great from an intrigue and it harkens back to your days running wcw and the contract bids and contract wars with w w that's great for the fans as far as I see it. Well, it's great for chatter. You know, it's, it's no different than free agency in major league sports or college drafts or the NFL draft. I mean, all of it, you know,

the speculation amongst hardcore sports fans is, especially during the offseason. What is it all about? It's about trades. It's about contracts. It's about all, it's about the business of their respective sports business. And to have some of that play going on so that it, is a catalyst for those types of conversations that people just enjoy, just like they do in traditional sports. So it's good for wrestling chatter. It's buzz, let's just call it buzz, which is good for the wrestling business. Now, I have a hypothesis, and this will play into a hypothesis that you had as well,

a prediction, if you will, something that became a prediction. And that was, we saw this past week, Becky Lynch, win the NXT Championship, the NXT Women's Championship from Tiffany Stratton. NXT did a really, really good number. They averaged 850,000 viewers across the entire episode. The quarter hour that Becky was a part of did a really good number, almost a million viewers. And big time stuff there for NXT and her winning the championship.

My gut says that that is not coincidental as far as Jade goes. Of course not. I very much. I don't think it has anything to do with Jade. I mean, maybe it does. I don't know. I think it has everything to do with TV rights negotiations. Well, I think both those things can coexist together.

Well, sure, they can. But if I had to weigh one, I would give 80% of that weight to. Of course. Well, my point here, Eric, is that. 20% of it is just a little wicked amount. My point here is that it's very clear that they are going all in on NXT again as a brand. The television show has improved drastically. in the last nine months since even the beginning of this calendar year.

And I think there's a mass investment in equity. And one of your predictions right here on the show in the beginning of 2023 was that you felt that NXT could potentially beat Dynamite again this year. And I got to imagine you're feeling pretty good about that right now. Yeah, as we're recording this, the AEW ratings haven't come out yet for Dynamite last night. So it will be interesting. I think I made the prediction originally. with Conrad and repeated it on this show and I told Conrad I thought it was going to happen

you know in the summer of 2023 well we're closing in on fall here shortly so if it happens I hope it happens tonight because it's just another big prediction win yours that you hear first and regularly by the way I'm pretty consistent but you hear first here on strictly business we got to get that parade set up in Cody everyone's going to be out there Eric Bischoff's going to be waving his hands on the float i call me nostril bischoff kind of like nostridomas only german i like that i like that i see jade fitting like a glove

in wwe and with the resources that would come with her i think you present her as a big time star hell i'd have paul haman managing that woman instantly and making her seem truly like the next next big thing and enhance every bit of positive element of her character and as we know paul's so great at hiding some of the weaknesses can you imagine this though let's play a little fantasy booking here can you imagine if these discussions with jade and wwe assuming there have been and assuming it becomes executed and she's actually a part of it but what if these conversations have been going on for a while what if this is you know becky's appearance on nxte and winning the championship has

something to do with a newcomer. What if this is not just coincidental, yes or no, but a part of a creative strategy because who could get Jade over quicker and bigger than Becky Lynch? No, that's what I'm saying. That's exactly my point. Oh, that's the point you were trying to make that I shit all over. Sorry. That was literally the point that I was making.

I had to make it my own idea. That's what I'm sorry. No, no, but that's what I'm saying. I don't think it's a coincidence that Becky Lynch randomly shows up in NXT on a whim here and becomes their champion. What a way to make a star then by having her come in and potentially beat Becky Lynch. All right, no, let me, let me cut the legs out from both of us because since we both kind of said the same thing in different ways. Here's why I don't think that'll happen.

Okay. I mean, I actually want to see it happen because it would be cool as shit. And I love that kind of, I keep referring back to Sun Su because I'm reading the book again, The Word of War. I read a book about once every four or five years. It just inspires me and motivates me for some bizarre reason. But the reason I'd be less likely to actually believe it instead of hope it is because Jade's not ready yet.

And one of the biggest mistakes, Based on what I've seen of her, I haven't, you know, I saw her in a very beginning and she was new, new then, right? Maybe she's gotten much, much better. Maybe she's been working out, as you said, with Brian Danielson, maybe there's, maybe her game has improved tremendously. I just haven't seen that. My fault, not hers. But unless that's the case, to put her right in there with Becky Lynch, you run the risk of exposing her before she's quite ready for prime time. And that can be a hard one to shake.

unless it's done really, really carefully. You know, you put somebody out there in a high-profile situation like that. You want to basically, you're putting a rocket ship on her, if that were to be the creative strategy. And the only bad things about rocket ships is it can sometimes blow up. Sure. But isn't it safer to do that within the parameters of NXT than on RR Smackdown? Yes and no.

Yes, because fewer people see it. And it's understood that it is still technically a developmental program. Well, it depends what the finish would be. It depends what the match would be. But you don't want to draw attention to that too much. You know what I mean? You don't want it to look like backyard wrestling. Not to suggest that it would.

That was the wrong thing. I was trying to make a point and exaggerated. But that's the only thing. If they were going to do that, they would have to be very, very confident in her ability to play at a much different level that she's played at. EW this far in terms of the type of presentation she would have and sell and all the things that go into it. It has to be either very, very confident or very, very careful and do it the right way.

And one of the interesting parts in play here of this story, too, and we're going to be talking with Mark Ramondi and just a little bit here on this podcast about the UFCWE merger, but now that that is official, it looks like we're going to start seeing WWE invest in new talent again. It's been a long time since WWE has brought people in from a talent perspective. and jade being that first one i'm curious if that creates a domino effect you know what i mean i mean who knows yeah who knows i for one didn't subscribe to the theory that there was going to be a lot of talent layoffs i didn't see the merger as being a talent driven kind of issue internally i

saw it more on the administrative side but objectively objectively speaking they have not brought in anybody in a long time from well you know part of that may be because of the merger a lot of when you're going into a merger, you're not doing anything differently than you did right before the merger discussion started. You know, you, you, you play very conservatively during the process of a merger. Now that the merger is completed, you may see the opposite of what a lot of people were afraid of. You may see a lot of talent acquisition. We don't know. We'll see, but this is interesting. It is, it is really worth paying attention to. exciting for me. It absolutely is. And I can tell you one reason that Jade Cargill looks like a mega

star, Eric Bischoff, is because we know deep down, Jade is getting her fill with Hello Fresh, and we want to help you do just the same here on Strictly Business. You see, with Hello Fresh, you get Farm Fresh, pre-Portioned ingredients and seasonal recipes delivered right to your doorsteps. You can skip those trips to the grocery store. You can count on Hello Fresh to make home cooking easy, fun, and affordable. And that's why Hello Fresh is America's number one meal kit. Eric, with the fall season getting underway, you want to get that fall routine going. And Hello Fresh is the best way to get that happening for you. Hello Fresh handles all the meal planning and shopping to deliver everything you need to cook up a tasty meal right at home. They do the hard part and you

get to take all of the credit. I know that's a sneaky way for you to impress Mrs. B when you get Hello Fresh delivered right to you. Is it not? It is. And not only that, one of the things I love about Hello Fresh is I eat primarily a keto diet. I'll go off the reservation maybe once a week on a weekend, a little bit, not too much. But I have really, really become accustomed to a keto friendly, not even keto friendly, a pretty strict keto diet.

And one of the things I love about Hello Fresh is I can order keto friendly meals and have the ease of just reaching in my refrigerator. or throwing something in the microwave if I'm in a hurry, not even to have to wash dishes when it's over, and be able to enjoy great food that fits my dietary goals and is convenient and affordable. And by the way, it tastes freaking awesome. I mean, it is awesome quality food.

Yeah. And when it comes to options, Hello Fresh's ideology is that more is, in fact, more. That's why Hello Fresh's menu includes 40 recipes and over 100, add-on items to choose from every week. I know they hit us up when they got on board with Strictly Business and they sent all the different options for what you'd want. And I've been really trying to eat a lot of fish lately, Eric.

There's a lot of healthy acids there in fish and good fats for you. And so I ordered this pescatarian style plan that they had. And it was just so fantastic. They had trout, salmon. It was just so freaking good. and I know that eating right is a big priority of yours. HelloFresh wants to help you do the same, and we want to help you do that here on Strictly Business.

Go to hellofresh.com slash 50 wrestle biz and use code 50 wrestle biz for 50% off plus 15% off the next two months. So we're talking a total value here of 65% off with code 550 wrestle biz, is W-R-E-S-T-L-E-B-I-Z for 50% off plus 15% off the next two months. This is a fantastic offer from HelloFresh. It's a great offer from Strictly Business. Eric, anything else you want to add on that? Yeah, actually what?

I'm glad you gave me the opportunity. Thank you, John. Another business of the food business that dropped this week is that Kroger and Albertsons who are probably the largest supermarket chains in the country have merged. And as a result of the merger, Kroger is going to close over 400, the combination of Kroger and Albertsons are going to close over 400 grocery stores around the United States. What that means is there's going to be fewer, there's less and less competition as larger and larger conglomerates control the distribution of food.

And by ordering from Hello Fresh, you won't find yourself going to the grocery. store for a dinner party heading over to the counter to look for some of the ingredients and realizing there ain't nothing there find a great way to find an alternative to to your food needs your dietary requirements and having your food delivered right to your door the best way to do that unless you can grow it yourself 50% off and free shipping hellofresh.com slash 50 wrestle biz and use that code 50 wrestle biz. Hello fresh. America's number one meal kit. Well, Eric, a big part of strictly business for the last year has been the

WWE sale turned into WWE merger with UFC under the umbrella of Endeavor. And I figured with this all official now, there's no one better to bring in than someone I know you've got a lot of respect for. He's a writer for ESPN. He is Mark Romandi, and he had a chance to chat with some of the big wigs in WWE, UFC and Endeavor this week. How are you, Mark?

good guys how are you doing we're great erics eric's getting things together today it's i'm scrambling i'm just i'm like a a one-handed man in a slot machine contest or something shit i just i'm i'm slow this morning but i'm i'm good mark you were there having a chance to speak with some of the most powerful people in the business right now what is your initial reaction upon seeing things come to fruition with the TKO group launch and some of the fallout that we may be seeing here in the coming weeks? It's a little surreal for me.

And the reason why I said that is because even though I believe that there are a lot of parallels between UFC and WWE and pro wrestling and MMA, as far as like live event promotion and just promotion in general, I just think that the UFC has done a really good job because when the UFC first started, there was really no MMA. It wasn't on the radar, and wrestling was already thriving when the UFC was around. So I feel like the UFC, for a long time,

to separate itself from pro wrestling to make it as not like pro wrestling as possible, even though there's always been some undertones of pro wrestling in MMA, right? Of course. But now that's one company, and now what that means, I'm not sure. You know, it's UFC, WWE under TKO. Mitzv McMahon is the executive chairman of the board. You know, Dana White is still running the UFC. There are a lot of big personalities involved in this.

There are a lot of money involved in this. And I think it's going to be really, really fascinating to see how the next few months and years go with these two companies combining. Did you learn anything? Did you walk away from the press conference feeling like you had insight or information or even a gut feeling that you didn't have before? I think the one thing that I found. interesting that I think we could see maybe in the not so distant future is

you know a weekend where you see a Friday night WWE show Smackdown Saturday UFC pay-review Sunday WWE Premium Live event I think that's something that could be in the offing within the next maybe six to nine months

based on the conversation that I have with those guys just because both both promotions right now are are trying to command site fees from local authorities. To use an example, UFC just had a pay-per-view in Sydney, Australia last Saturday, U.S. 293, and they have a deal with the government of New South Wales, which Sydney is within that jurisdiction, for three years.

I think it's like a $16 million deal. And WWB is trying to do similar things right around the world, you know, trying to get those site fees so that, hey, if you want us to come there, you got to pay. you got to pay. And I think that the idea with both companies now under TKO is the ability to package the two together and do it like that. Friday, you know, WWE, Saturday, UFC, Sunday, WWE, you sell that to a London or, you know, a Paris or or or Sydney, Australia or somewhere domestically. That could be big business for for the new, you know, parent company. That's a really fascinating, and I just got to look at a quote or two from Nick Kahn on that same subject, just this morning. Full disclosure, I recorded an episode of 83 weeks early because I'm traveling this weekend, and I got up early to kind of surf the news sites and see what was going on. And I read that comment, and all the times, you know, John has asked me, you know, what you anticipate, you know, and other people have asked me about what the future holds for this new company. And I saw leveraging, you know, I certainly see when it comes to programming TV rights and so forth.

There's a lot of opportunity for synergy there and cross-promotion opportunities, but I never thought about packaging the rights fees for local markets. And that is a massive and very, very interesting strategy. Absolutely, that's going to be a big one. And you say WWE is just starting to market themselves towards these rights fees internationally. Certainly they've got a stronghold here in the United States who've been doing it for a while. Are they not, or have they not had WWE, have they not been able to capture any part of that site fee market overseas, or is this going to be new for them? They have. They have.

So I believe the Clash the Castle last year in Cardiff, that was one of those situations where they had options as well. far as where they would go. And Cardiff was kind of the highest bidder for them. So stuff like that. And the UFC has been doing that. Really, I really feel like since the end of the pandemics, they've been traveling again, live events have been at a premium, right, around the world. And jurisdictions and cities and counties, local governments, they want stuff coming to their city. Salt Lake City cut a great deal with the UFC last year. So the UFC is going back there. I think every year or maybe two out of the next three years, it was last year, this year, next year, maybe the year after, for, I'm not sure how much money that was for, but it was,

it was for pretty big money to come to Salt Lake City. And I could see WW getting in on that business, whether it's, you know, the PLEs, whether it's even, you know, a situation where there's a smackdown on a Friday and on Saturday. If there's no UFC, I don't envision them really running against each other now under TKL, right? I don't think there's going to be UFC pay-per-views and WWPLEs on the same day anymore. It could be the same weekend, but not the same day. But yeah, I think that's a that's a big part of the future of that their business for tk o is those is those site fees yeah i just when i hear that in these big group events with wwe and ufc in theory it all makes sense but the question that then stems from that is how much true crossover is there in

terms of interest from fan base and this was a big part of your piece that you published on esPN that got a lot of traction uh where you spoke with laurence epstein ufc senior executive vice president chief operating officer. And he said, quote, where we want to get is where every UFC fan is a W.W.E fan. And every W.W.E fan is a UFC fan. Now, Mark, on the surface, that sounds great and everything. But even Dana White heard that quote from your article and had something to say disagreeing about that. Yeah, that something was, that must be the stupidest thing I've ever heard. But I think Dana White said. What's your impression on that, Mark? Dana White never prone to hyperbole, guys.

You know, he's always, he's always shooting from the hit. Understated, too. Yeah, yeah, really an understated guy. I think, you know, when I heard that, because it was an interview with me, and I heard that quote, and I used that quote, I didn't think it would be something necessarily that would be controversial, because, again, it was business speak, right? It's, if you're the same company now, of course, you know, one hand watches, you know, the other.

But I think that there's a pretty big thing in MMA. And I think it is, it stems from what I mentioned before about how the UFC has tried to position itself as not like pro wrestling as much as it could. It very much wants to be authentic and kind of raw and organic in that way to the point of like Dana White hates like spectacular entrances. He hates spectacular walkouts. He likes the, you know, regular the music, the fighter walking out. that's it he doesn't like anything else no pageantry so i think that when ufc fans here quote like that from lawrence epstein and and you can tell by my like the social media response when i when i tweeted that quote there's a lot of resistance from ufc fans i'm i'm not sure

if it goes the other way nearly as much i think that new fans are much more much more uh you know open to watching especially a big ufc fight a mcgregor's fighting someone like that but man it really feels like there is a lot of resistance from UFC fans to even giving WWB a try. I think that there is this perspective about how this is a real fight. You know, we're fans of real fighting. We're not fans of big. Yeah. Eric, do you have any thoughts on that?

Yeah. I mean, every time this subject has come up over the last 10 years, I've been consistent in saying that while there, I guess, some psychographic. or demographic and probably psychographic parallels between an MMA audience and a professional wrestling audience, meaning that they like action, they like physicality, obviously the live event experience, but they're not even apples and oranges, they're apples and bricks. And some of that is the culture of the sport. You know, one of the things that I think UFC has done so amazingly well over the last 10 or 15

years and it it probably really started with the graces in really introducing and showcasing jiu-jitsu as such a powerful dynamic or element within ufc along with that comes in education you're teaching people about the sport they're interested in the sport they come they want to watch guys beat the shit out of each other kind of what what started out is a no-holds barred kind of an event, but it has evolved into a pretty sophisticated audience that knows their MMA. And I think to try to pull them out of that cultural mindset and plug them into fantasy sport, that's where the resistance is going to be. You're asking them to kind of give up what they find most appealing in many respects about UFC

because the audience has learned about MMA with the success of UFC. You know, people know now what a rear naked choke is. You know, they know some of the moves and they appreciate MMA much differently than they would have 15 years ago because UFC has educated them along the way. And I think that's where you're going to run into a cultural divide is, I forget everything you know about this thing that we do over here that you can bet on. and it's an actual sport. And come on over here and enjoy this, too.

It's two different things. I just don't think it's going to be as easy as people assume it would be because, hey, it's a ring. It's just beating each other up in a way. It's the pageantry. You know, why Dana White may not like the over-the-top WWE-ish entrances, he certainly doesn't mind the smack talk that really evolved out of professional wrestling. So even Muhammad Ali.

you know, told me on a flight from Pyongyang, North Korea, talked about it before I won't beat it to death. I sat next to him on a flight. It was about a two and a half or three-hour flight and told me about his childhood growing up and how he used to go watch professional wrestling in Louisville and gorgeous George's was, you know, one of his favorites and how Muhammad Ali based his wrestling persona,

including the promos and everything else that he made famous in boxing, based on what he saw in professional wrestling. So there's always been that kind of, it's a red-headed step-child relationship, but it's going to be a little tougher to separate them now or to merge them now. Mark, do you get the idea that Dana White is, I forget the financial element of this,

do you get the vibe that he is embracing this merger and going into business here with WWE? Because there really has been a contentious relationship between the two entities over the years where sometimes it's really great. Other times, it's distancing as far as possible. What I will say about that is, is I think Dana White has a lot of respect for Vince McMahon. That doesn't, I don't know if they have an affectionate relationship.

I don't know if they're close buddies. I'm not sure if they will be after this. But I do think there's a lot of respect there as someone who, you know, built the WWE the way that Vince did. And I think that there are a lot of similarities between those two men, you know, in terms of their upbringing, in terms of, you know, how they approach conflict and conflict resolution, how they promote. I mean, I think there's a lot of similarities. I don't think there's any two people

who are more alike as far as that stuff goes in the world of like sports and sports entertainment. But I think it's going to be really important for the UFC and for Dana White to continue to kind of have that firewall between the UFC and WWE. because, like I said before, the fan base is very resistant to this. And I think that Dana White has his finger on the pulse of the fan base like no one else.

He knows. He knows how they feel. And I think that it's going to be important for him, just like he said on Tuesday. You know, he hours earlier, one of, you know, the lead executives in the UFC told me that quote, right, we want UFC fans to be WWW fans, vice versa. And literally hours later, Dana White is saying, it's one of the dumbest statements he's ever heard. So I think we're going to continue to kind of see some of that publicly for the fans. Behind the scenes, it might be different, right?

Because, I mean, as Eric knows, everything is pro wrestling ultimately, right? It's all at work on the outside. So I think we'll continue to see stuff like that from Dana, at least externally. Mark, do you, and you said something there, I picked up on very briefly, you were talking about the similarities between Dana and Vince. And I absolutely agree. I've often listening to Dana and listening to Vince. I know Vince fairly well.

I don't know, I don't know Dana at all. But you just sense that these guys were cut from the same cloth. And with that in mind, as this thing moves forward, it appears, Vince McMahon is going to be the guy at WWE. I don't see that changing. He's still working, you know, Polovac is still working, apparently underneath Vince and Vince is still to some degree or another involved and his word will probably still be the last word, my guess.

Dana has that same kind of role in UFC. At some point, don't know what it might be, no idea, but at some point human nature suggests and business almost demands that there is going to be a conflict of some sort. It could be in scheduling. It could be in market. be in anything right who's the referee between those two is it already is he the tiebreaker it has to be r a manual right i mean he he has to be the guy uh you'd imagine he is the he is the chief executive right of the new company he's the the CEO of tko now evince man is the executive chairman of the board

nick con's on the board you know from wwe um but yeah you'd imagine that the kind of the buck has to stop with Ari Emanuel when it comes to those very, very strong personalities. I mean, that's the part that fascinates me because these are two ultra-alpha guys and they fought their way to the top, literally. You know, in Dana's case, maybe more so physically, but they're both street fighters at their core.

So I'm just trying to imagine what that conflict or what that difference of opinion, you and call it whatever you want, ultimately before it gets to Ari, what that's going to look like and seeing these two in a room, you know, fighting for their position or their perspective is going to be the best seat in the house. Yeah, I mean, that's arguably more compelling than either product, right, is that dynamic between Dana White and Vincent Man. And I don't know how that goes. And I don't think anyone does. I don't think anyone does. And by the way, you know, Ari Manuel is also a pretty big personality, right? He's not, he's also not. He's also,

not a very, uh, you know, um, demure type of guy. He's not a too. Oh, no. He is, he is a absolute carnivore. And he, he prefers his meat not only raw, but near body temperature. He's an animal. I got to say one of the more interesting elements of this whole story has been Vince opening up his mind to what UFC is and the possibilities that exist with UFC. There's a, a famous story that back in like 2000, Shane McMahon tried to convince Vince to purchase UFC for like $4 million. And Vince had no interest in it. Now here we are years later. And in your piece, Nick Con told you a story that he thinks that Vince really opened up when he actually went and attended a UFC pay-per-view in person there. Can you provide us with a little more insight

on that and what may have opened up Vince's thinking here? That's what Nick Hahn told me as well. because it was actually a pretty big surprise. It was last July, 2022, and WWE had money in the bank, the PLE, in Las Vegas at MGM Grand, and the UFC was running the exact same night across the street, essentially, a T-Mobile arena. And before the main event started,

all of a sudden, Vince McMahon shows up, Nick Kahn is there, Stephanie is there, Triple H is there, Pat McAfee is with them, and they sit basically right with Dana White and UFC chief business officer Hunter Campbell, you know, in the front row, second row. And they took it all in. The whole main event was Israel Adasanya

versus Jared Kanenir. And according to Nick Kahn, that is kind of what made Vince McMahon think more seriously about the UFC as part of kind of the overall portfolio. And I think he probably saw a lot of similarities with his own product because, and I don't know Vince, Eric, and you obviously, you know, are more, you know, qualified to answer this question.

But I don't think Vince is a guy that consumes a lot of things. That's not WWE, right? He may be, maybe movies, but I don't think he's watching the NBA. I don't think he's watching, but, and I don't think he may have never even seen the UFC, but being there, you know, and taking it in, he probably saw a lot of similarities between what he does and what Dana does. Talk about leading a horse to water, right? Oh, my gosh.

Mark, have you, you know, we talk a lot about, you know, the merger, corporate, corporate merger, the people inside. Have you heard any buzz from UFC fighters, any chatter, any sense of how they feel about this or how it may impact them as fighters? I've spoken to a few fighters over the last few months since this whole thing got announced back in April. And I think for the most part, they don't feel like. there's going to be any differences. I did have a few people kind of wonder to me out loud if they, if they, if kind of being a more pro wrestling character will benefit them now under this new company. But the truth is is that being a pro wrestling character is kind of benefited fighters going back a long way. Right. I mean, the Covington kind of does it now. And there's

been a few people, he even uses Kurt Angle's entrance music as, as his walkout music. So I think that's always been the case to an extent. I just think that in the UFC, you really wanted it to be as organic as possible. Otherwise, it doesn't come off right. But then again, you know, guys like Shail Sunnan, he was kind of not authentic because he's actually kind of a pretty nice guy if you get to know him. But outwardly, he was, you know, a giant prick in as far as his trash talk goes. So I'm not sure, I'm not sure how fighters feel as far as that goes. I do know that a lot of fighters were definitely fans of WWE growing up, even guys like BJ Penn and Tito Ortiz legend said that they idolized Hulk Hogan, you know, and they, and they wanted to go into some kind of a competition because

they were inspired by Hulk Hogan. And I think that that every generation of fighter has had, you know, Connor McGregor grew up a WWE fan. Obviously, Rhonda Rousey did. So I don't think they're necessarily worried about any changes. And I do know that several of them, and this is what Nick Khan told me as well on Tuesday, if there's a, if it makes sense, if there's fighters out there that, you know, have big personalities and what fit in that in that WWE ecosystem, maybe when they're fighting careers over, they can slide over to WWE and, you know, extend their careers there and then do something over there. Yeah, well, we've seen that with Rhonda. So the, the template is certainly there. How about, now, again, I don't track UFC news and notes. You know, I'm a fan.

I watch it occasionally. if it's a fight that catches my attention. But it seems like it was just four, five, six months ago. There was a lot of chatter about fighter pay. And a lot of fighters not being satisfied. So I'm much more outspoken than others, obviously. Does this merger resuscitate that kind of conversation? Is that money issue gone?

Has it been resolved or is still lingering in the air? I think it's tough because, you know, the most kind of in-your-face thing that people will say about fighter pay is that the UFC only pays around 18% of their revenue to the athletes, whereas in other major sports, it's closer to 50-50, right? But there's no collective bargaining in the UFC, the same way there is no collective bargaining in WWE. There's no union. There's no association of fighters. And that's just kind of where costs are. I think the one thing that has been in the news a lot in the last few months is this antitrust lawsuit against the UFC, which has been going since 2014, and really there's

no end in sight. But the thing that that made news recently, Eric, was the judge in that case granted the plaintiff's class certification. So now it's become a class action lawsuit. The UFC is appealing this. It's in the appellate court now. So that's not 100%. It could get sent back. Who knows what's going to happen? Again, it's going to probably be years more. But that is something that I think now that the UFC is front and center as a public company under TKO, I think that's something that investors and shareholders are going to probably look at to see where that case is at and to see how much fighter pay and where it's at now either helps or hurts. Because look, just from a sheer, you know, from a sheer business perspective, you know,

low cost talent, low cost, you know, performers is a benefit from a capitalist standpoint, right? from a business standpoint, it's like, if you keep those costs low, that means you can make more on the back end. So I think right now that's one of the big reasons why the companies are valued so highly both UFC and WWE is because maybe they're not making as much as what a sport that has a union, the athletes there would make. You know, it's interesting about that. And again, this is not me trying to be the purveyor of doom and gloom.

But there's just a natural progression of things in the world of business. it like it's i guess the business version of the butterfly effect right you have this massive merger nine billion dollars for w what is it down where the whole thing in total worth 20 21 billion dollars the bigger you get the more risk you inherit from unions right now you've got now you've got Fighters. There's no fighters union. There's no collective bargaining, blah, blah, blah, blah. Get that. Get that. I understand why. I understand the business model very, very well. I understand WWE's business model. But now you've got these two major companies, a $21 billion entity, both of whom rely on television. Television, we know that there's a writer's strike, there's a director strike. We know what can happen when entertainment unions go on strike. We're living through it right now. we're not seeing it yet on the screen because everything's still there's still new stuff coming out

but if this thing goes much longer it's going to become more and more and more apparent i guess i'm asking you if you think that there's a possibility that because of the success of both companies and the scope of their collective businesses now there may be more interest from individuals wanting to unionize the fighters and then since they're both part of the same company and they all rely on television which by the way you know most of the people that rig arenas a lot of them are union people so if if there becomes a big play to unionize and now we're focusing on endeavor or tko because they're a 21 billion dollar company and they can afford it any exposure there do you think i mean it's certainly possible i i one of the things that

when the UFC was sold to Endeavor back in 2016 for, you know, $4 billion in change, I thought at that point there was a possibility that because Endeavor is a massive company, because a lot of fighters, you know, saw how much the UFC was worth for the first time, right? Four billion. That's a lot of money. But, and there was, there were a few people at that time trying to drum up interest in a union or an association. One of them was Jeff Boris, who's a long-time baseball agent. He was one of the guys kind of a lynchpin of trying to unionize fighters,

but it didn't work. It didn't work. And Jay Paul is someone, you know, who has been very vocal in recent years about how fighters should unionize or their, you know, fighters should be protected more. But a lot of that stuff kind of falls on deaf ears. And the reason why, like someone like Jeff Boris

and maybe even someone like Jay Paul may not have success in trying to unionize is that fighters, are very insular and they don't like people from the outside telling them what to do or what they should be doing. They are they are very territorial about that type of stuff and they are very they are very I guess I don't want to say paranoid but they're resistant to people who are not in that circle who are maybe doing things that are self-serving rather than actually trying to help the fighters and I think that it will take like a fighter or someone that's trusted by fighters to start that,

to get the ball rolling on that. Because there was the Athletic, the media outlet the athletic a few years ago, did like an anonymous survey of fighters. And most of them actually were in favor of some kind of, whether maybe it's not a union, but some kind of an association. Look, because I mean, ultimately, right, Eric,

everyone wants to get paid more. Everyone wants, you know, everyone would love to have health care and a 401k and all that. But I just don't think there's been that right person yet who has led that charge. And to be honest, I don't see that changing anytime soon, even with this merger. And I can't speak. I'm not as, I'm not as privy to how talent in WWE feels about that.

But as far as the UFC side of it goes, I don't see anything on the horizon where I'm like, oh, wow, that could be something or somebody. the thing that is the most I mean the most like active thing right now that could change business practices is that lawsuit but again it could take it could take a while before that even gets hashed out I think that's very interesting that you brought that up to that maybe it's someone from the outside rather than someone from the inside who gets the ball rolling on change like that I think of Marvin Miller and Major League Baseball back in the late 60s early 70s getting into free agency because free agency wasn't a thing and it took someone from the outside to generate that change rather than someone from the inside. And I think Eric, too, pro wrestlers specifically have been so conditioned to think one way over the years when it comes to unionization that even a few years ago when we had the whole sag after stuff was Elena Vega and everything, I think there was probably momentum for it, but maybe not necessarily knowledge of how do we make something like this happen. How realistic is something like this? And I think a merger does to all the things both of you have said, really put a little more of a spotlight on that,

especially as licensing increases. There's more opportunities for crossover. And maybe all of a sudden you get SAG AFTA involved at some point. It's going to be a really interesting thing to follow up on as years go on. And we'll be following up with you for sure, Mark. Eric, do you have anything else that you'd like third away? I went over my lot of time by 90 minutes and 44 seconds. One thing I did want to add that's important.

I guess about that last question is that WWE and UFC, their wrestlers, their talent, their fighters are independent contractors. So even in order to get collective bargaining or a union or an association, they would need to kind of prove to a court that they're employees,

which they couldn't have a union without showing that they're employees. And right now they're independent contractors. And by technicality, for sure. And that's a whole other argument in and of itself and conversation. Yeah, we're not even going near that. another 30 minute conversation right right mark go ahead plug some stuff where can people find

your work and tell us a little more there uh ESPN ESPN.com ESPN all all channels I guess this week is uh noche UFC so it's uh the UFC celebration of Mexican Independence Day I'm wearing my El Santo shirt uh for nicely done brother they had to have to represent uh Lucia Libre a little bit and uh yeah I mean that's really it uh mark randie at you know at Mark Monday on Twitter or X or whatever they're calling it now at market Monday MMA on Instagram and we should call it Twix I know it's a copyright infringement on the candy bar thing but they're two different categories so I think you don't get away with it and then and then please stay tuned in like two years for for the NWO book that I'm writing

that's right that's right I heard there's a nice conversation in Cody with Eric Bischoff for that book and I'm sure we're going to hear some more for it so I'm excited for that Mark, thanks so much for hopping on Strictly Business with us. Thanks, guys. That was a great conversation we had there with Mark Riemondi. Thank you again to Mark. Check out his work as he is going to be doing a lot of great stuff. That NWO book, Eric is a part of that.

And I'm sure you guys must have had a great conversation when he came down, Chad, with you, right? Yeah, Mark, I sat him down at the bar and I have an actual bar bar that's about 130 years old right now. It came out of an establishment that was a bar, not far from the crow. Indian reservation up in Montana and now it sits prominently in my living room so I sat mark down and I said okay if we're going to do this interview we're going to do it at my western bar and we did and it was a great conversation he's a very talented young man before we get into our last major topic of this episode I had like 50 people send me zetes or tweets or whatever twicks is telling us

ticks is whatever it's telling us this morning as we tape this the pw i 500 which uh it's an objective subjective list rather that is released every single year but there are people who put a lot of equity in it including many wrestlers themselves that honors the top 500 wrestlers in the industry every single year a lot of people wanted to know your thoughts set ralins named number one this year roman rains number two and john moxley number three so all three members of the shield rounding out the top three pro wrestlers of 2022 to 2023 per pro wrestling illustrated. Do you have any thoughts on that? I know you're a Seth Rollins guy and a big believer in his work ethic.

Anything you'd like to throw in there? Well, I'm a huge fan of Seth Rollins and congratulate him, I guess, if it matters to him. Where was Cody Rhodes on that list? Cody was number 10. Okay, so I pretty much wipe my ass with that list, just so you know. Well, you have to keep in mind, it goes back to June of, last year. So Cody was not active from June until he didn't come back until January. So he technically was only part of that rankings for six months. Yeah. And he had a bigger impact than

six months than a lot of people that are on that list had for the last three years. So my, my conviction as to the value of that list stands firm. That's fair. That's fair. I think it's something that I asked you ask me. Yeah. The people wanted to know, Eric. All right. Well, now the people know. They wanted to know. Orange Cassidy, by the way, who we talked about last week. Orange Cassidy, who we talked about last week, number eight. So pretty cool for him. He's number eight, Cody Rose's number 10. Wow. Hey, come on. Orange Cassidy had a hell of a year. Had a hell of a year. M.JF is number six, I believe. So. Okay. It's getting worse, not better.

Okay, I know that this has been all over the place the past 24 hours. Let's get into it. Resslemics, the first one to report this, Brandon Thurston, who we've had on this podcast. Go check it out in the archives, 83 weeks.com. There was a Freedom of Information Public Records request put in for the turnstile count for last month's AW all-in show at Wembley Stadium. And the Brent Council respond to the request and say that the turnstile number, which is the actual ticketed fan, ticketed fans that went through the gates into the venue. Real, real people. And counted was 72,265. Now, the announced total paid number by AW was 81,035, which would have, in theory, set a lot of

records. Now, there are a lot of variables at play here, but I'd love to hear your reaction to this news. What are the variables? So I would say the biggest variable as far as I see it. This is not excuse making. I just look at this from even other pro sports too and concerts specifically is that when you have mass public on sales, there are going to be scalpers who buy up a lot of seats. And that happens now more than ever with Ticketmaster's way of selling unless they do verified pre-sales. So you had this massive event that was on sale for a long time. And I'm not going to sit here and say that 9 to 10,000 seats were scalpers, but I do think it's plausible that there's a good number of those were bought in bulk and ultimately never sold on resale.

So that's going to count towards your paid attendance because they were purchased tickets, ultimately, and they were never resold. Am I going to say it's 9 to 10,000? I don't know about that. Because nobody wanted them. Regardless of what that is, whether anyone wanted them or not or the price was too much, whatever it may be. So that is an element at play that I do look at that for.

But, yeah, I mean, there's a disparity here. No questions asked about it. What do you make of it? Is there any kind of research or other information, similar situations that anybody can point to that says something like, yeah, on an average, when a public on sale, particularly of a large live event, 2% end up not getting sold, even though it was reported as sold, it wasn't actually sold to a consumer that actually wanted to go to the event.

Is there an average that we can talk about? Or is it just simply we know something like that happens, and maybe that's a reason why? Do we know? I asked around, and I was told, and this was reported elsewhere, too, that AEW's typical turnstile count for events is about 80 to 90% of what the paid attendance is. historically speaking okay well maybe that maybe that's it maybe there's nothing more cynical or conspiratorial to any of this than that very fact and because i don't know none of us do we'll just let's default to that to be the most likely reason well we will know someone's going to audit the event eventually that takes normally a couple months to do but it will happen we will find out

Why will somebody audit it? Because someone can. I mean, that's, as a reporter, people do that. And I'm sure those requests have been put out. I have no doubt about that. I think we will 100% find out for sure at some point. I don't know when what that actual number was. And Tony Khan insisted, I mean, he swore by it that night that the paid attendance was the 81,000 plus number.

I see that smirk on your face. And I'm, you know, I don't want to stir the pot. So let's just see. You love to stir the pot. Sturing the pot. No, no, no, no, no. That's your favorite pastime. No, I, no, it's not.

Listen, if I believe something strongly, I will lay it out there in very simple fucking terms that even people that need crayons to communicate can figure out. I don't hold shit back. But I'll talk about. about possibilities. Sure. And maybe, you know, try to analyze things from that perspective based on my experience and having 30 years of experience in the actual industry. But just stirring the pot for the fun of stirring the pot is not my, not my gig. Well, can you give us any analysis on possibilities here then? No. There's a percentage of people that had planned to go that for whatever

reason couldn't. That happens. People get sick. People have other things come up. Other plans sound actually more fun. Whatever. You're traveling and you get stuck somewhere. You didn't get home in time. There's millions of reasons why a percentage of that audience that purchased a ticket didn't show up. It's not surprising to me if Tony Khan actually purchased that block of tickets hoping to resell them, especially if he was absolutely 100% confident that those were sold tickets and the emphasis put on sold tickets, purchase tickets. But, and that could be true. And by the way, it would surprise me a bit.

And I don't know that I necessarily criticize it either. I mean, they're making the money either way, right? Yeah, it doesn't matter. So rather than, you know, have fun with it because it's certainly something I could have fun if I chose to do it uh let's just see man I'd rather I'd rather know I'm more interested in facts than I am fantasy so let's just figure it out will Osprey got the 81,000 plus number tattooed on him because better get an asterisk put next to it now otherwise it ain't legit dude yeah man listen I I truthfully think

some of this is semantics honestly and not not on anyone's reporting I just think like does it ultimately matter i mean maybe it does maybe it doesn't i think it's all it's a look the whole and here's another reason why i i can lead into being a little skeptical tony was adamant about coming up making that big announcement sure and you know throwing the gauntlet down to w w we and all that shit which i saw it i went damn he's just never going to learn he's just never going to learn he's going to keep mistaken making the same mistakes over and over and over again to the point where it's like I expect him to do it now. But he did it because it creates a marketing tool in a meeting down the road,

a month from now, six months from now, negotiating for site fees, whatever. It's a hell of a thing to have in a PowerPoint. And it may be worth a couple bucks for Tony to buy a block of tickets to make sure that he crossed that threshold. Oh, okay. So you're saying that you think that. This was a self-purchased. I'd do it.

Yeah. Did you ever do it? If I wasn't accountable to anybody, did you ever do it? Billions of dollars in my checking account to play in my own sandbox. And nobody was going to tell me no. And I felt like I was really convinced that being able to spin or sell that story. It's not a spin.

Sell that. Well, I guess it could be a spin now. But if I thought by doing that, it would ensure my ability to come out and throw down the gauntlet because obviously that's been important to Tony from day one. um probably could convince myself it was just a marketing expense did you guys ever do something like that no because i was accountable if i would have gone to harvey schiller and said harvey i'm i get this

chance to break a record and i'm going to buy 10 000 of my own tickets no that that conversation would not have but tony doesn't have that he's just tony he's got all the money in the world he can do whatever he wants and i don't blame him if he did it interesting good for you bro well the jaguars won a football game in week one so it was a good they really they did how close was the game uh it came down to the fourth quarter but they pulled away at the end who'd they play uh they had was that the titans game i believe it was let me make sure on that i just don't want to this quote uh the colts rather 31 21 against the colts they went on the road and they beat the colts and anthony richardson's debut good for how trover lawrence look uh he he got off to

a little bit of a slow start in the game, but he finished with, how'd you feel about, how'd you feel about Aaron Rogers going down? Lawrence, Lawrence did 2432, 241 yards, two touchdowns in a pick. The Aaron Rogers stuff, I mean, look, man, I'm a New York sports fan.

I mean, I grew up a Giants fan, but I've been surrounded by this. I just, my heartbreaks for Jets fans. Yeah. But did you see his tweet that came out this morning? I did see that. I did see that. always dark darkest before the dawn that's a batman quote yeah um i i think he'll be back i just feel

back because i think the jets i think they're really talented i mean they won that game i mean they won so i think they're really talented i have a great defense but you know you go all in and you lose your franchise player after going all in it's a hard thing to come past you know how do you think how do you think my steelers are going to do this year i'm a steelers fan i'm always going to be a Steelers fan, but sometimes it's easier than others. What's my year look like this year? Yeah, they had a, they had a rough one this past week. Now, to be fair, they faced a very, very talented 49ers team, but they got their asses handed to them. I saw the game. I saw most of the game. San Francisco.

They're good. They looked in that game. Yeah. This could be because Pittsburgh wasn't no, San Francisco looked almost unbeatable. Yeah, they're going to be a Super Bowl contender. Holy smokes. Their passing game is, their receivers are just unbelievable. Would you make that a Bama, Texas game? Watch that one too. My heart went out for Conrad and his mom, Deborah, and his father, Larry,

because I just imagine him sitting in front of their television set because I've had the pleasure of sitting in their home while they're watching Alabama football, and it's an emotionally charged experience. They get really, really into that game. I don't care if the score's 80 to nothing in favor of Alabama or if it's close. They just stay emotionally invested. And to see that game kind of fall through their fingertips the way it did, I just, I felt bad for him.

all i could hear was larry thompson conrad zad in the back going this is bull shit anyway hey we're back in the full swing of things with football so who knows maybe maybe we'll get a football oriented guess we had a j francis on here one time that was a good one we'll have to see maybe it's some more crossover opportunities there but this has been a great episode of strictly business we'd love to get you on board with us my friends head on over at advertise witheric.com and make sure that you are getting your business or your product out in front of thousands of listeners every single week. Strictly, business is one of the most listened to wrestling podcasts in the world. And I'm very grateful for that. I'm grateful that

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This has been a great episode of Strictly Business. Thank you again to Mark for hopping on with us. Anything else you want to put out there into the ether, my friend? Nope. I'm on my way to Philly. I hope you have safe travels. Philly's a great wrestling city. It's one of the best out there.

And if you get a chance to meet Eric Bischoff this week, tell them how much you love Strictly Business. This has been Strictly Business. We'll see you next time.