83 Weeks with Eric Bischoff - Strictly Business with Eric Bischoff #45: BREAKING NEWS - WWE Changes & Layoffs

Episode Date: September 21, 2023

On this week's Strictly Business, Eric is joined by his 83 Weeks host Conrad Thompson to discuss the major changes and layoffs happening in the WWE. BLUE CHEW - Try BlueChew FREE when you use our promo code WRESTLEBIZ at checkout--just pay $5 shipping. That’s BlueChew.com, promo code WRESTLEBIZ to receive your first month FREE. MANSCAPED - Get 20% Off and Free Shipping with the code WRESTLEBIZ at Manscaped.com. SAVE WITH CONRAD - Stop throwing your money on rent! Get into a house with NO MONEY DOWN and roughly the same monthly payment at SaveWithConrad.com ADVERTISE WITH ERIC - If your business targets 25-54 year old men, there's no better place to advertise than right here with us on Strictly Business. You've heard us do ads for some of the same companies for years...why? Because it works! And with our super targeted audience, there's very little waste. Go to AdvertiseWithEric.com now and find out more about advertising with Strictly Business. On AdFreeShows.com, you get early, ad-free access to more than a dozen of your favorite wrestling podcasts, starting at just $9! And now, you can enjoy the first week...completely FREE! Sign up for a free trial - and get a taste of what Ad Free Shows is all about. Start your free trial today at AdFreeShows.com FOLLOW ALL OF OUR SOCIAL MEDIA at https://83weekslinks.com/ Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

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Equal Healthy Lended. Woo! Hey, hey, it's Conradt, and you're listening to a very special edition of Strickland. business and of course we couldn't do it without the one and only Hall of Famer himself. Mr. Easy, Mr. Eric Bischoff. Eric, how are you, man? I am just sitting back trying to digest all of the news and I want to point out that

John Alba couldn't be here. He's on the road traveling today and we had recorded a show yesterday that was originally going to drop today. But with all the news that is developing this morning as soon as I opened my eyes, Conrad jumped in and said, let's do it. And here we are we're going to bring you as up to date as information as we possibly can today Thursday when strictly business drops. Eric, there's so much to unpack here. I feel like we should just let everybody know that we are actually recording at 105 Central. So that's 205 Eastern on Thursday, September 21st. And we're in the middle of a crazy day. We started with some pretty crazy news and then maybe some even crazier news, although we probably predicted some

of this. We knew that this merger was going to change some things, uh, that things would continue to evolve and there would be some good and there would be some bad and there would be some ugly. And that certainly feels like where we are right now. But we started the day with some interesting news. And I can't say this is necessarily a surprise, but I want to talk about the strategy behind it. The news came out this morning that Smackdown is moving to USA. The Fox relationship is going to come to an end. one year from now in October of 2024. Also in that release,

I guess it looks like there's five more years of Peacock and maybe there's some prime time specials with NBC Universal in the future. But it feels as if this is, well, I don't know another way to say it. It makes a lot of sense as to why they had this merger announced last week. When I saw this news, Eric, and I want your two cents, I thought to myself,

I had heard this thing much, not be done this merger until the end of the year. And all of a sudden, no, no, it's going to be done in the middle of September. And I thought to myself, self, what does that mean is going to happen in late September? Something is happening. And of course, the value behind WWB stock, I think, Eric, you would agree, is largely hinged on the television rights deals. And there's been an expectation that every time you get a chance at a renewal, you're trying to go up, up, up, up, up. That's how you grow the business. It's your biggest line item. It's your biggest income source. It's your biggest revenue stream. Whatever you want to call it.

We got to try to grow it. And I couldn't help but wonder, man, were they crazy like a Fox? Like, did they realize and recognize, hey, this deal is going to have to be announced. And if we're judged on our stock as it is, that we're not going to get this huge bump from Fox. Maybe that could spell disaster for the price. So let's get this merger out of the way. Then we'll announce that maybe we can navigate these waters a little easier. What do you think of the timing of last week the endeavor thing is made official this week? Hey, we're off of Fox. Yeah, it's hard not to accept or agree that there's a correlation between the two in terms of how deep that correlation it is or or or what's behind it. I can't even begin to guess. I think your

top line observation is probably correct. It was it was done in order to create and maintain as much value at the time of the transaction, the acquisition of WWE by endeavor to create TKL. I don't know, man. Beyond the fact that I don't believe there's anything that's a coincidence in the world of television and business, the business of television, it's very interesting. I mean, it's a lot of news coming all at once. It's almost it's hard to digest it is i'm curious you know first of all uh i know once upon a time people would have the position that you know well fox is broadcast us a cable this is a step backwards i know that perception is reality so i do want to talk about that and give that some value

but in all reality that's kind of not the way the space operates in 2023 fair to say yeah i think so And looking back when I read the news, early this morning, when I read the news, I immediately went back because I was in WWE for the debut of Smackdown on Fox and had been there for just, I got there really in July, towards the middle or end of July. And by that time, the deal with Fox had already been negotiated, a lot of the plans had already been developed, the graphics and all the things, you know, all the production side of things had already been developed. And that was part of Kevin Dunn's initiative anyway. I would have not had anything to do with it, even if I was there earlier than I came in. So I came in right before the premiere of SmackDown on Fox. The one thing that I do recall, and this is what I thought about this morning, is expectations. I think the expectations for SmackDown on Fox were so high.

I can't remember exactly who told me or what. where I heard this, but within the context of a smaller group meeting, a very high level, the numbers that people were talking about internally, not publicly, were between 5 and 6 million viewers per week. That was the expectation. And we came in, the initial rating for the show, I think, came in about 3.8 or 3.9 million. So I think there was an immediate disappointment based on the expectations, whether those expectations were real or imagined, they were there.

And then subsequently, I think WWE lost probably over the course of a month or two, 30 to 40 percent of that number and settled in around whatever the average was after that, probably around 22, 25, which is still comparatively speaking, If you go back and you look at the weekly ratings and the commentary surrounding it, SmackDown was typically number one for the night in all of television and probably held up pretty well throughout the week in terms of all television, certainly in the demo. So it did, Smackdown did very well on Fox compared to the rest of the television universe,

but not well enough to meet initial expectations. Again, whether those were real or not real. I wonder if if part of the issue is just the relationship WWE has with some of their partnerships. I don't know another way to say it.

But I've always gotten the vibe and I've certainly heard from people who have associations there. And I won't name their names because some of them are still doing business with them. But I think we all just saw recently as you and I are recording this. WWE ended their long time

trading card deal with Panini and that's a pretty long-term relationship but I've heard some of those folks not at Panini but at other partners will call it talk to me and confided me about how difficult it is to do business with WWE that there is almost um an arrogance in the approach in that a lot of folks think and on the WWE side we're doing you a favor by letting you work with us you're lucky. to have the opportunity to work with us at WWB, as opposed to, hey, man,

we're going to go hard charging at this thing and do our best to over-deliver value to you as our partner. That's not always the way some of their partners feel. They've told me that. And I wonder if Fox maybe felt some of that too, that maybe they were living up to their end of the bargain, these giant checks, and maybe WWE wasn't as giving of a partner

as they would have hoped. would that surprise you to hear that that may be the case? Yes. Yes. And partly because of my own experience during that period of time, as we're getting ready for the premiere on Fox, for the short period of time, you know, the three or four months I was there after the premiere,

probably only about three months after the premiere. And just on what I know of the people involved on the WWE side. There was a big priority. WWE was bending over backwards. I mean, yes, it would absolutely surprise me if there was anybody at Fox that were to say the reason or one of the reasons or at least beneath the surface of the main reason, they felt like there wasn't really an equal exchange of effort or commitment. I wouldn't believe that. I honestly think, look, nobody had ever,

it was the first time, to my knowledge, that anybody had ever put weekly professional wrestling on a major broadcast network, right? Yeah. The expectation was, and I think this is where both WWE, perhaps, and Fox, misjudged. You know, going into the negotiation,

negotiating on that price, think the perception as well, if we're doing X amount of viewers in cable, are you kidding me? Fox, based on their current positioning within the marketplace at that period of time, should do at least twice that much or 50% or whatever number they came up with and projected, because it's all a projection. Until you do something, you don't know for sure, all you can do is project based on data that you have available to you at the time.

But there's still a little bit of instinct there. And one of the other things that Fox brought to the table and did an amazing job at it, by the way, was promotion. You know, if you go back, if you remember leading into the premiere and even for quite a while after SmackDown premiered on Fox, Fox did an amazing job of promoting SmackDown in WWE. in all of their adjacent programming on football. You know, I mean, they were everywhere. You couldn't swing a cat by the tail and not hit a television that had a Fox-W-E promotion on it. It was everywhere for a long period of time,

not just for a week or two or three weeks leading into the premiere, but long afterwards, big, big effort on WWE's part as well as Fox's part. And I think the, I don't want to call it a misjudgment, but I think the miss, based on expectations, that's it. Was that it just didn't deliver the audience that the financial model was built upon. It's that simple. No, I mean, that's exactly right. I mean, I think that's important in what we're saying here.

And you and I've said it a lot on our show 83. weeks, the key to life, certainly the key to business, but I think even in our personal relationships is managing expectations. And this Fox deal does feel like perhaps some expectations were mismanaged. I don't know another way to say this. If Fox felt like they had gotten their money's worth, this deal probably would have been renewed. No? Absolutely. And I heard, and again, I'm going to be careful. with what I say here, out of respect for the people involved. But it was my impression that there were key people involved and dealt.

I didn't, you know, I dealt at a high level, but not the highest level with Fox, even in the short period of time I was there. I had a call once a week with an executive from Fox. It was my impression that there was a lot of interest in not even waiting to written, not even waiting to the end of the term to renew and extend the deal beyond the initial contract agreement. That's how high everybody was. Even after the premiere, there was still a lot of conference, not a lot, careful what I say

here, there was conversation that I was privy to that suggested to me that there was an expectation that the Fox deal would be a very long-term deal and would be extended before the expiration of the original deal. Now, that didn't come to pass for a lot of reasons. And let's talk a little bit more about expectations. I think the expectations were probably based in reality at the time. The reality, you know, if the show premiered in September of 2019, I think that's when it was. The deal was probably being negotiated for a good six or eight months, maybe even a year in advance,

at least the beginnings of the deal, the beginnings of the discussion. the math that would have corresponded with some of the early negotiations and planning, at least on Fox's part, would have been probably based on where television was, where ad sales were, where viewership was in 2017 and 2018. By 2023, with the impact of streaming and just the shakeup and television in general, even though those projections were based on data that was probably pretty realistic and sound in 2017 or 2018, those projections might have been greatly affected by just the shift in the advertising marketplace as a result of streaming. Television has continued to deteriorate over the last five years.

Despite the fact that WWE has done a great job, SmackDown has done a great job for Fox on Friday nights. It kicked ass. They just didn't kick enough ass. to justify the cost. And that's just life. So it's not like I'm suggesting that somebody wasn't very good at their job, and they were just had, you know, stars in your eyes because they were wrestling fans. I'm not saying that at all.

Some really, really smart people on the business affairs side of Fox, which are really good at what they do, based projections based on what was known at the time. And what became known in the future was quite different, or different enough, at least, not to be able to justify the number. Well, we know that that's a wrap, but I don't think it's bad news for WWE. I am curious if you think that this is going to have a negative effect long term. I mean, this isn't like this is news to Ari Emanuel or the UFC or Endeavor. They clearly

knew that this was happening. I mean, this deal just just come together over the last week or so. But I'm curious if you think there will be ripple effects in, what might be an opportunity for a third wrestling organization or certainly AEW. I mean, I know there's lots of rumor in innuendo that perhaps Turner owns a part of AEW. Nobody knows. It's not a publicly. I do. I don't have it written in front of me, but I will stick almost everything eye on the fact that Discovery Warner owns 30% of AEW. I think that 30% number has been floated around on the quote unquote underground railroad of the wrestling universe, if you will, uh, so I mean, that, that's a number that's out there,

but we don't know for sure. Um, but I am curious, do you think there are potential ripple effects in the wrestling space based on Fox pulling out of this deal? Or is it just business as usual for the rest of the wrestling landscape? I don't know what it would be. I mean, I can't imagine Fox is going to go, okay, this WWE thing didn't work out with Smackdown. So let's take a look at maybe acquiring a AEW product. That's just not, that's, that's, that's fantasy wrestling booking, so to speak. That ain't going to happen. I think if Fox made up their mind that wrestling just wasn't viable enough for them,

if you, look, if you can't make WWE work, you're not going to make anything work. That's simple. So as far as an opening up an opportunity for a third company to start working with Fox, I just don't see it. In fact, it's the opposite. It's just one more network that's going to decide for a long time not to go back into the wrestling business. So, no, I don't see it creating any positive opportunity for anybody. I think it would make it harder for a new company to emerge because Fox tried it and it didn't work.

Why would any other network decide maybe they can make it work? I think it's the opposite. Are there going to be ripple effects? Sure. I would imagine this is going to affect the WWE stock price negatively, at least in the short term, because the market doesn't like uncertainty. This is an uncertainty.

This is the definition of an uncertainty. What's it going to mean? I don't know what the dollar values are. I haven't even had time, quite honestly, because you and I have been recording 83 weeks as this news was breaking. So I really haven't even had time to look at any of the numbers associated with this deal in terms of the license fees and what it means.

Not sure what it means for Raw and NXT. It could be a major advantage. It could be a disadvantage. Just too much new information for me to try to even imagine at this point. According to the Hollywood reporter, WW is willing to listen to several offers from networks regarding the raw broadcasting rights. A source familiar with the raw discussions tell the Hollywood reporter that the market for the program is extremely active with traditional linear network, streaming services, and unexpected players all interested.

Hmm. Unexpected players. That's pretty exciting, is it not? I guess. I mean, who could that be? What comes to your mind? Well, I mean, when we say streaming services, I mean, and you and I have talked about a little bit of this all fair.

Maybe we have before a long time ago when the, the rumors. of, hey, would WWE consider a sale? And lots of people were saying, oh, Disney this, oh, Amazon, that. I mean, Apple TV has certainly thrown their hat in the ring, as has Amazon. And the Amazon piece is interesting just because of, you know, their ability to move merch and move product. And I know that they're really thrilled with Fanatics, but I believe Fanatics has a presence on Amazon as well.

And when you think about just the licensing opportunities and just creating commerce and getting it in front of people that could be really spectacular um i don't know i don't know what to expect as far as because in my mind's i're also going to be on u s a but i certainly see if i'm usa and i think well hey man uh the entire time we've had raw they've kind of been the a show that's what we thought we were getting and then when smackdown got fox you sort of made that the a show we're your long time partner we want to a show that that makes sense to me uh but i am curious where the whole raw thing shakes out i mean i would also not be surprised if it stays right exactly where it is that's kind of where i would

lean and no reason for that really other than my gut is raw has been a fixture on usa network for as long as i can remember i don't even remember when it first started it's been a minute or a million I just, and there's a lot of value in that. When you talk about how hard it is, when people talk about how hard it is to create appointment television in an era where you don't really need to watch appointment television because you can get whatever you want, wherever you want, however you want of your favorite program. But still, Monday Night Raw is a family, it's communal viewing like it used to be and probably

like nothing else is, especially. especially 52 weeks a year. And aside from the dollar value and the ad sales value and the economics of that deal, there is a lot of value in being destination television on Monday night, 52 weeks a year. Everybody knows that it hasn't changed it forever and it's not going to change in the future. There's value in being able to make that statement as a network. There's predictability as an advertiser. There's comfort and safety as an advertiser as a result of that.

So there's a lot of, I don't know if intrinsic is the right word, but there's a lot of subtle value in maintaining Raw on Monday night. I would be surprised if it moved, but then again, I've been out of the business long enough where I realize that nothing should surprise me anymore. well this is also part of the Hollywood reporter line while the new deal will bring w to nbc primetime those four specials a year and smackdown to USA on friday nights it will also mean the end of raw and nxte on USA and that is almost immediately disputed by sports business journal where they say the nbc u is still considered a frontrunner to renew its raw

deal, but there's also interest from Disney and Amazon, but they warn that, and I guess this makes sense because you've got to remember some of these other platforms, they're pretty invested in Monday night events like Monday night football, and perhaps this could mean that raw would be on a different night. Now, I'm not trying to get the cart before the horse, but I can't help but wonder, what would that look like with i mean i don't i don't believe they'd want to have wrong on a thursday night i could be wrong we got a thursday night football don't you right so that kind of means tuesday or wednesday and it feels like no matter what we might be in a head-to-head circumstance again

with with a ew and another property would you be surprised doesn't it even sound weird i'm not saying this is happening i'm not predicting it i'm not forecasting it i'm just fantasy booking Wednesday Night Raw, that would sound weird. Would it not? Yeah, and that goes back to what I was saying before. I mean, Monday Night Raw is a part of, it's generational now. Yes. There are adults that are in their 40s that used to watch Monday Night Raw when they were teenagers.

And now they're watching Monday Night Raw with their children. That's what I mean about the intrinsic value or, you know, the value that lies beneath the surface of the economics of it. It's generational for crying out loud. Is there anything else on television that's generational at this point? I don't think so. We should not. We should mention that as soon as this news broke, the stock was down 10% when the market opened.

So I don't know what they were expecting, but it wasn't this. The Wall Street Journal wrote, people familiar with the pact valued it roughly 1.4 billion, which is about a 40% increase. over the WWE deal that they had with Fox well that will come out to an average annual value across five years of 280 million compared to the 205 million that Fox was paying for Smackdown and then CNBC came out and just straight out said hey the number's 287 million so if they

were really getting 205 and they're up at 287 it's kind of a head scratcher as to a why people aren't thrilled with that, you know, from a stock price standpoint. Like, do you think there's a lot of institutional investors and, you know, I don't, I don't know anything about the stock market, but it almost seems like it's automated. Yeah. And I think any time there is a major news story or shift in a company's business, there are investors who are going to take the more conservative approach and get a little get out of the business for a minute and see where the dust settles.

That's kind of what it feels like to me. That's why it doesn't surprise me that the stock went down a little bit. It could be right back up there by this time tomorrow. It could be up 12% by this time tomorrow. Once the dust settles, the smoke clears, the information is out there and a little bit more available for people to digest over a period of time. You could do a complete opposite tomorrow. I don't know, but it doesn't surprise me at all.

it's the nature of business it seems well we should also mention that as we as you and i recording now it's 130 central 230 eastern the previous close of the tk o group was 100.87 so 100 bucks and 87 cents a share as we're recording right now in real time they're down 12.7 percent they're at 88 17 uh point 15 it continues to move but listen that's not necessarily something i'm with you eric to gets totally spooked by when they had the whole barstool pen ESPN bet separation deal a couple of months ago we saw that stock just go through the roof on the announcement of ESPN and then pretty much crater over the next three days like it came right back down where it maybe it belonged so I think a lot of times people take the approach of well no news is good

news and this news but maybe people weren't ready for it oh it's different it's not as consistent. Maybe we're a little panicky now. Uh, we'll touch on a few more things about this new deal. And then we're going to talk about the roster, I suppose. Uh, John Pollack writes, financials of the deal unknown, Wall Street had expectations of what the rights would garner and USA likely was the easiest path while also maintaining reach versus say an Amazon. On USA, there's no affiliate programming to prevent the possibility of a third hour down the road and that's kind of interesting because we've never really even considered that what do you think about the possibility of a three hour smackdown i mean obviously if you're looking to

deliver revenue and value you only have to set that truck up one time all the lighting trusses one time etc etc etc so there's not a whole new set of costs involved with a third hour i mean there are but they're nominal in scale and i could see that being an affordable option if there's a big enough appetite, but if I'm, if I'm USA, I'm like, mightn't it be easier to sell ads on Monday night as opposed to Friday night? But with the third hour, USA's familiar with that. What do you think will we see a third hour of Smackdown on USA? I mean, the economies of scale, what you touched on suggests that absolutely. It's what Turner did to Nitro, you know, when it wasn't my decision.

to go to three hours. I was the mandate that came from Ted and Brad Siegel at TNT because you when I say economies of scale, if it costs $100 to fly the crew there to set up the ring, to bring in the trucks, get your satellite time, fly all the talent in, all the costs associated with putting on Monday Nitro was $100. And it only costs $117 to do an extra third hour. all of a sudden, that third hour became very, very cost efficient. The entire three hours became much more attractive than just a two-hour show because you could spread those costs out, sell more ads in that third hour, drop your expenses, so to speak, or offset your expenses with more ads.

So it makes a lot of sense. USA has obviously had a lot of experience with it. They're very comfortable with it. They've been doing it for a long time. I would be surprised if they didn't, frankly. I'd be shocked. And I don't know from an advertising point of view, just because I don't have the knowledge or experience or information, I don't know what the difference would be between a Monday and Friday. It could be significant.

It could be negligible. I just don't know. I can't comment on that. There's a report that's coming out, you know, I guess maybe this is from what was in the paper yesterday. and now today, I guess there is a, you know, some more Axios filings. And maybe there's a concern that, hey, what if Vince McMahon winds up leaving WWE? Do you have a read or a feel or what does your gut tell you about the long-term future

of Vince McMahon and WWE? I would never bet against Vince McMahon in terms of Vince doing what Vince wants to do. my instinct and a little bit of experience suggests to me that Vince doesn't want to walk away. This is Vince's baby. This is a part of Vince's family. I don't see him walking away from it. Nothing has ever happened in my professional lifetime that suggests to me that Vince wants to do anything other than what Vince is doing. He doesn't have hobbies.

It doesn't appear to have much of a social life. He works like a maniac. He lives to work and works to live. I just, I don't think Vince could be happy doing anything else other than what he's doing. Now, there's other things going on. And, you know, some of the stock price issues could be a reflection of a lot of the news that we've read over the last couple of days. Right. About the pending litigation and perhaps criminal charges and all the other.

that's floating around out there. Personally, I don't think any of that sticks. I think it's a lot of nasty noise and a lot of uncomfortable information. But I don't think, I don't think at the end of it all, it's going to come to fruition or mean anything. I think Vince will be just fine in that regard. I don't know that. I just feel that.

but I don't see him wanting to do anything else. If they're going to take him out of there, it'll be kicking and screaming. It won't be him deciding it's time to go. TKO and their, sorry, go ahead, cut you off. My bad. We've been recording nine hours today and I didn't think I'd step on you. My bad. I got my timing off.

TKO said in their regulatory filing, this is according to wrestle ops. Quote, Vince McMahon's membership on our board could expose us to negative publicity and or have other adverse financial and operational impacts on our business. His membership may also result in additional scrutiny and otherwise exacerbate the other risks described herein. Any of these outcomes could directly or indirectly have adverse financial and operational impacts on our business. And the regist is this new entity, TKO, has registered all of Vince McMahon's shares for

sale, thus enabling him to avoid the lockup period that applies to other TKO stockholders, like Endeavor, and McMahon holds around 28.84 million TKO shares, which is valued at around $3 billion. And it looks like, at least on the outside, this is trying to give McMahon some flexibility and gives him the opportunity to cash out should he want to. I don't know I mean I understand because of some of the other news that has come out that perhaps people want to jump on that but I don't think that's necessarily something that every quote unquote owner wouldn't want who wants to quote unquote sell

something I mean let's just brass tax it let's say for instance you have something to sell okay I'll buy it from you but you can't get any of the money yet yeah what like actually when you're 80 years old you know or however old he is it's not like he's got all the time in the world either although you know i think he's said somewhere along the line he was going to live to be 120 he told a curt angle that on joe rogan yeah that's where i heard that this is like wow you know and then again i wouldn't bet against him either i um i'm curious to see what happens with vince and i'm even more curious to see what happens maybe with monday night raw because if we go to a streaming era of monday night raw that will

really be a whole new world. I mean, we've talked about, you know, I was talking with Jeff not too long ago on, on our show, my world. And he said, this is really the, the end of the territory system with the McMan's no longer being, you know, the primary owner or what have you of WWE. And they have a parent company. I mean, this is, this is it. This is the last territory. And the idea that there's not a Monday Night Raw on just feels weird after 30 years, doesn't it? It would if it happens. But again, I don't see it happening. But look, the audience will adjust. They always do. Yes. And, you know, I'm going to go back to some of the statement that you read that evidently came from TCO as a risk factor regarding Vince and the news that's going on. I understand why it was said. I mean, that's what you have to do when you're a probably held company. And you have to acknowledge certain risks and opportunities in your statements. But if Vince McMahon walked away this afternoon, cashed in his $28 million stocks or whatever he's got, took his $3 billion, bought a yacht, floated around the Caribbean for the rest of his life, I do not see it having any adverse impact on WWE. And that's a credit to Vince. Vince has done such a phenomenal job building that organization, surrounding himself with the right people.

both on a creative side of the business, on the business side of the business, and certainly now with Ari Emanuel and endeavor behind it, the quality of leadership and talent in WWE right now is amazing. I wish a lot of other major companies had the same type of leadership and management. So I don't see that being a risk. I really don't, but what do I know?

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for sponsoring strictly business i am interested to get your opinion on the other news that most wrestling fans are more excited about don't get me wrong Smackdown leaving Fox is a big deal. But that happens a year from now. 90 days from now, a lot could change. A report as we're recording this morning came out that Mustafa Ali was no longer working with WWE. And then I believe the next name was Emma. And boy, I felt awful for her. She's a nice person in real life. We've had her at a few starcasts. And she's just delightful. But she quote tweeted the announcement about, hey, elimination chamber coming to Perth, Australia.

she was pumped and about 20 minutes later said uh sorry never mind i've just been released by w w we felt awful for her but this isn't her first time leaving wb hopefully it's not her last time being there but she'll be successful wherever she goes i am curious let's just stop there before we run through the rest of the list Mustafa ali is that a guy you can see showing up on an a tv show sometime soon or what would you expect for him well i i think he's an amazing talent. I'm pretty good friends with him, by the way, and have stayed in regular contact with him ever since I left in 2019. When I say regular, I don't mean every week or every month, but we stay in touch, mostly through texts and things. I think the world of him,

he's an amazing talent. And I know he's an amazing amount of drive and ambition. So my guess, and I don't want to suggest I know him really well personally, but what I've come to know of him, suggest to me that if anything, he will be even more motivated and inspired than he was two days ago, or 24 hours ago. So I would not be shocked at all based on his own desire and ambition and abilities to see him in AEW. The big question is, what is, and we'll go through this because there's probably, I know, there's more than one person on that list, and some of them are a little surprising to me, But, well, we'll talk about AEW when we're done going through the list.

Let's do that. What I'm, what I'm most interested in on the Mustafa Ali deal is, as I understand it, like nine days from now, he's supposed to be challenging Dominic Mysterio and NXT no mercy for the North American title. And now he's just gone. That's, that's, that surprises me. Yeah. Because.

Not that this would have been the greatest. thing in the world to do, but from a purely business perspective, and probably for Safa as well, could have released him at the end of the next month. Right. Could have released him after the, you know, it would have been no harm and no foul. Wouldn't have any measurable effect on the bottom line? You know him. I do not, but there's certainly been reports that he wasn't happy with WWE for quite a

while and had been wanting this release. So I'm wondering, and I was, I don't know that that's true. Okay. I mean, here's what I think based on a little bit of communication I had with him. Very frustrated, wanted to do more, constantly trying to figure out a different, better approach to his character. Yeah. Frustrated with himself to a degree, frustrated with not being able to find a way to crack the code and make it happen. But that's probably true for almost everybody that's in a talent business,

whether you're an actor, actress, musician, whatever you are. I mean, it's a very tough business in a competitive world. And yes, you've got to constantly figure out ways to reinvent yourself. So I think if there's frustration, sure, it probably exists. There may have been a time along the way. I don't know this. He never expressed it to me where he may have been thinking about leaving. But I'm sure he's.

very disappointed at this point, very disappointed. And by the way, I think that disappointment will evolve into intensity and determination to prove that WWE made a bad choice. Emma, and we know we've seen her in Impact, certainly seen her in WWE a couple of times. I think she can pretty much ride her own ticket. And I would imagine that we would see her land somewhere. sooner rather than later. Elias is somebody you probably worked a little bit with once upon a time.

Boy, he was getting a lot of television time. I think he and Kevin Owens still may have the cheap heat record reaction. I was a little surprised that they didn't do more with Elias once he had that television steam, but it felt like he hadn't been a priority in quite a while. but what a look, what a performer. I hope it's not the end for Elias. What do you expect? Harder one to get a feel for.

I did work with him quite a bit for a short period of time while I was in WWE. We talked pretty regularly and talked about his character and ways to improve and maybe take different approaches to things on a fairly superficial level, but still a pretty consistent level. And I just got the impression that he was very, very committed and a very talented guy. You know, he wasn't afraid to go out and try anything new. And he was credible and talented.

So I just don't know what his ambition is. You know, it's hard. Look, he's not young. He's not a 25 year old or 28 year old or 32 year old. At some point in time, you reach a certain age and you're, your late 30s, early 40s, which I think that's probably where he lands, you've got to kind of make up your mind, whether you're going to pursue this line of work for the next 20 years or maybe while you're still young enough, shift gears and

pursue something else while you're still young enough to do it. Because the last thing you want to do, and I've kind of lived this to a degree, is you spent 30 years, in my case, I stayed in the business until I was in my 50s. really my 60s. And at some point, you know, you realize, okay, your time is up. That train is left the station. Now you've got to do something else. You've got to reinvent yourself.

Right. And I've been fortunate because I wasn't a wrestler. I was more on the business side of things. I was able to more easily migrate into other interests and lines of work and kind of leverage my experience and time in wrestling in order to create other opportunities because I wasn't a wrestler. It's a little harder to do when you've spent all that time. time in the ring. Your skill sets in the ring don't necessarily translate to a lot of other

businesses. So I think for someone like Elias in his age group, I think probably the discussion is more internal than external. External meaning, I wonder if Tony Kahn's interested in me, or I wonder if I could go to impact or, you know, whatever. I wonder if I can, you know, make a couple hundred grand a you're on the indie scene for the next couple of years. That's a great conversation to have with yourself if you're in your 20s or early 30s. It's a little bit more uncomfortable when you're in your late 30s or early 40s, if that makes sense. Let's run through a few other names that made the list, Riddick Moss,

Riddick Moss and Rick Boogs. Any experience working with those guys in your 2019 experiment? No, to be honest, experiment, that's a great way to say it. um no i if i had any contact with him i don't remember it uh i don't think alia has wrestled with wb at all since she lost the tag titles over a year as i understand that she was released today as well uh as was top dollar uh any interaction with uh either of those folks or what do you have i had on uh i had on strictly business a while back that's right yeah so super guy. What a great, what a big, big personality. So, but professionally, you know,

no experience with him, but just what a great guy in a big personality. I'll be surprised if he doesn't end up pursuing the business, either on the independency or an AEW or somewhere else. Well, he knows how to get people talking. I've enjoyed some of his raps. He's posted online we had him here at the house for a a w must or a and e easy for me to say most wanted treasurer's episode just a super guy in person but i know that different people have different takes on him well i can only tell you what my experience has been and it's been fantastic so i for one hope that he finds success and whatever it is he does in life but uh before w we he uh had a little run and the thing called the NFL so i think he'll be just fine uh Shelton benjamin is one of the names

shocked me the most today. He was such a big part of the hurt business, just a long time WWE guy, uh, by all accounts, one of the nicest human beings you could ever meet. And a great close personal friend to a lot of folks in WWE and it feels like his time there has now come to an end. Uh, I would not be surprised to see him wind up doing something else in professional wrestling. Like you got to think if he wanted to be a trainer or a coach, or a performer, he has options, but this is definitely a person you worked with, gosh, 20 years ago with WWE. What do you think about Shelton?

The world is genuinely one of the nicest, most professional and talented and gifted, athletically people I've ever worked with. That one surprises me because Shelton is one of those guys. You could put him up on the shelf. You could just kind of keep him there in the inventory, and you can pick him out and plug him into any scenario you felt you needed at that moment, and he could over deliver. He's such a great performer and such a pro. And like I said, just so gifted athletically that he and another individual we're going to talk about in just a moment, they are the ultimate professional wrestling utility players. because they can do it all.

Well, you teased it. We should talk about it. Maybe the most shocking name for a lot of WWE fans today. Dolph Ziegler has been released by WWE and you and I had a chance to talk all fair before we clicked record today. And my goodness, that was the one that may be shocked both of us the most. He just turned 43 years old, still in phenomenal shape. Uh, he's done a lot of television stuff.

He's done stand up comedy and he's been with W. ever. He started with the company in 2004 on TV, I believe. So we're talking nearly 20 years of continuous employment with WWE. And I'm sure if you were to ask the real life Dolf what his favorite part of working with WWE was. He might say the checks because he got them every single week for 20 years. And when you look back 10 years ago, the night after WrestleMania in 2013, where he did the cash in it's still one of the loudest pops in w w history he was mr money in the bank he cashed in on del rio and that crowd in new jersey went bananas for him just an all-time

great monday night raw moment and of course we know not too long after that he suffered a concussion and it felt like the w w e sort of moved on from him being one of the top guys which is a real shame because that guy can sell his ass off he made everybody look great he was a good and promo he had it all and i for one hope that he's not done with wrestling he may be above everyone else on the list today has so many options outside of wrestling as well but i would love for him to just show everybody what he's really capable of doing because i think this sort of gets lost he's not just a phenomenal sports entertainer and a comedian he's also a legit badass amateur wrestler so this is a guy who has a real pedigree

Who, let's just be honest, started with the Spirit Squad and then was a caddy with Chavo Guerrero and then got one of the worst names in wrestling history. Dahlf Ziegler loosely based on, I assume, Dirk Diggler from the porno movie, Boogie Nights with Mark Wahlberg in the 90s. And you made it work nearly 20 years. Bravo, you talented son of a gun, you bravo. Yeah, I mean, I would imagine that. that Dolph probably has enough money in the bank because he has made a lot of money consistently over 20 years. He may not have been in the top 10 of highest earners or even top 15 of highest earners, probably top 15, but he's been doing it for 20 years. That's a lot of money. And he probably

is financially in a position where he could either just retire or pursue. something else that he had passion with, whether it's stand-up comedy or acting or any number of other things because he's such a gifted talent. But I, and I don't know Dolf at all. I mean, we're, you know, when I see him, we're friendly, but I don't, we don't tax or stay touch or I don't have any direct relationship whatsoever. I just know what I see. And sometimes what I see in the ring or on TV, but also what I see, you know, I follow him on social media and some of the things that he's doing. I've seen some of his stand-up comedy, not, not. live but social media i i think he's going to do what he's going to have the most fun doing

because he's got the option to pursue fun rather than finance that's a wonderful position to be in hell yeah doesn't his brother work at aew he does and he's hilarious there you go so if out of the entire list of everybody that we've we've discussed if there's one that i see making that move more than anybody else, it's Dolf because his brother's there, and that would be fun. And I think that's probably going to motivate Dolf more than anything else at this point. He doesn't need the money. I might guess. I don't know what he's done with his money, but he seems to be a very smart guy.

He's going to pursue what makes him happy. And I think probably working with his brother would make him happy. So that'd be my bet is that if there's any one of those people that are going to go to AW, it would be him. Well, I'm excited to see. what any of these folks decide to do next, I, um, I had a conversation with somebody that I won't name, but I will say, I think people are sleeping on Dolph's amateur abilities and somebody that you and I both know like and trust in the

wrestling business when people were once thrilled. That's a short list. It is, but this person, uh, is on the list for both of us. And when we were having a conversation about best wrestler the world that sort of thing a lot of people were saying it was a handful of performers in new japan who at the time were wrestling once every three weeks and wrestling 40 and 50 minute matches and the quip was made there'd be a lot of greatest wrestlers in the world if they wrestled once every three weeks and they were given 30 and 40 and 50 minute matches for every match

let's say you go get your shit over in a TV match with six minutes including entrances that is a different animal and I totally get that and that made a lot of sense to me but I will say we have probably never seen what Dolph Ziegler is really capable of

we've probably not seen in a long time what Shelton Benjamin is really capable of and a whole lot of other folks on this list today just because of the WWE system and their approach it's so different than what you would see at an impact or a new Japan or an AEW, et cetera, et cetera, et cetera. So I'm excited to see how some of these folks sort of go redefine themselves and never say never. I mean, I don't think a lot of people would have imagined that Drew McIntyre would be back and accomplish the things he did.

But he left and he came back hotter than ever. And so did Cody Rhodes and and and. we've heard that story a lot yeah i'm excited to see who's next to be creative outside of wwee but maybe the larger story here is eric i can't help but wonder since we did just do this big new merger these releases have to be a function of hey uh ufc has had less top line revenue than w e this year but yet they're twice as profitable we've got a right size some spending. Do you assume that some of these contracts or talents were cut because maybe they were on a, well, Vince likes you, so he's going to take care of you deal and ultimately it's not

Vince's call? Or are they trying to hit a number and get under a budget? Because that's what it feels like to me. Like I've seen narratives online where people are saying, well, they probably cut so and so because he was overpaid based on his push. That's easily fixed with creative folks. it's more a function to me of hey we have this budget in order for us to deliver this number to wall street they can forecast income i mean they know what the television rights are they have a they have a model now where they can run a pro forma for live events and merch and all of those things so they have the data now to put together a pretty good pro forma of what to expect income wise so in large part it's a function now of how do we right size expenses they're just trying to

hit a budget right eric I, that's where I land. I don't think there was any, you know, oh, this was Vince's guy and they're paying them just because Vince likes him. I'm not saying that doesn't happen or hasn't happened, but I don't think that's the issue here. I think the issue is they knew going into the steel that they had to hit a number. And they're making wholesale changes to hit that number.

And this is where I thought you were going. And maybe my imagination got the best to me. But when you're talking about Dolph, in particular in his abilities as a wrestler, amateur, collegiate-style wrestler, as well as Shelton. Will Osprey has done a hell of a job building a career for himself and made a lot of money, just being an independent all over the world. I could see Shelton, I could see Dolph doing the same thing, New Japan and otherwise, and building

themselves back up again, like Osprey has on that circuit, and ending up back in WWE at some point, like a lot of other people that we've seen, come and go, get fired, get released, year later they're back, either because they've reinvented themselves or the numbers have adjusted where they needed to be in order to make it work, whatever the case may be. But I do think guys like Shelton and especially Dolph, not especially, but in addition to Shelton Dolf, they could have some fun going and making a name for themselves based on the Will Osprey model, if you will.

The real question I have for you before we run out of time is what do you think Tony Con is thinking right now? Or, and what do you think that the talent roster that's currently in AEW who have just gotten over the CM Punk impact, meaning guy comes in from WW, been gone for seven years, years comes in everybody else gets pushed down the card blah blah blah blah blah big guy comes in somebody's going to lose an opportunity what do you think tony con is thinking right now and what do you think the talent is thinking right now knowing that there's some high equity players out there that are available and tony could should you decide to take them and add them to the roster

well i don't think tony adding people to the roster would be anything new i mean it feels like every time i watch a dynamite or a collision i'm seeing someone's debut i think tony is always looking for new and i don't necessarily think that's a bad thing i know that people dunk on tony all the time for let's call it like it is creating jobs i won't be one of those to do that i understand when people want to armchair quarterback the business and all the sudden they get down a rabbit hole and here's what he should do based on what like when you ask any old timer like a jr he'll say wrestling fans love new so he's trying new things some will hit some won't so what let's see what sticks let's do more of that let's figure out what doesn't work let's do less of that

so i don't think that would necessarily be a shock to people in the locker room that hey they might be bringing in new people now of course the next thing will be uh well what about my spot brother i get that that but that exists right now and and hasn't changed in wrestling history ever but a function of do we think that because new talent is available they might lose their gigs. I don't think that's really something they have to worry about on the AEW side. Layoffs coming. I mean, I could be wrong. No, not layoffs. Just opportunity. TV time. Well, it's already so razor thin, man. You know, you've only got a handful of, you got so many wrestlers and just five hours of programming. I would, I would imagine that eventually he's going to with one of these streaming services.

And I know everybody is saying, oh, Max could be it. And maybe it is. I don't know. Um, but, it feels like the ring of honor opportunity could be a thing you've got a lot of really great talent there that if you had a ring of honor show that was on a streaming service that could build a sizable audience that in time could get a really devout following and i know some people would say i don't know about that i'd like to remind you that's how nxte started before nxte was a television property when people were really excited about nxte when nxte was at its critical peak as far as fan reception they did not have a television show on a linear network it was something that was on a streaming service so i could see that working

for ring of honor for that niche audience that they get really excited about that does that mean they'd be a competitor to wwee as ring of honor of course not but they could they could they could vie for that clear cut number three i mean they'd be battling with impact for that in my opinion right now but they could be competitive there with the right talent base so i don't know that this has a huge impact on a w if i'm honest but in 90 days i suppose we'll see it's a seems like if you had your, if you were steering the ship over there, you might make a play for, uh, Dolf Ziegler. Is that fair to say? Oh. Yeah. Like, I'd already be having a conversation with him as well as Shelton. Um, and others, but those would be the two guys that

yeah, I'd already have. If I wasn't talking to them, somebody that I trusted would be. My only, uh, my only two cents unsolicited as a fan. What the hell do I know? I would not necessarily want to be a part of some mass debut where on the same night, we're going to debut nine different characters. Oh, like, like I know we've seen some of that.

We saw some of that with like the WCW invasion. And I know a couple of years ago, we had, you know, Ruby Soho and Adam Cole and Brian Danielson all on the same day. And it almost set an expectation that with every new AEW show, it became, all right,

well, who's showing up tonight? Yeah. Yep. I think it would be cool if we had a real surprise. I mean, the, the moment that John Moxley was a surprise debut in Vegas at the first AEW pay-per-view double or nothing, that was special. And I would love to see something like that happened for some of these talent, because if they're one of several debuts, they're one of several debuts. But if it's more than 90 days, maybe significantly more than 90 days, and you're not ready for it and you're not expecting it because I'm telling you the internet is going to start going crazy with their

calendars and they're going to start saying well it couldn't happen before here they're already doing it with edge they're already saying okay well we heard it was october so looking at the schedule it could be here it could be here that really sucks some of the fun out of it to me eric it's more fun when oh i didn't see that coming and a friend of mine always talks about sarsa and one of those ss is surprise and i'd like to be surprised with some of these yeah i hope so You know, I think that's one of my critiques, not criticisms, but critiques, constructive critiques of Tony, is that in the past, he's just, he's blown opportunities in terms of surprising by overpromoting.

And I think having people coming in completely and shocked the audience. Absolutely. Look at the Rock. And it's funny because when Rock showed up on. Smackdown. And that timing is kind of interesting in the big scheme of things, too, isn't it? After all these years, Rock shows up the week before the announcement is made. That's cool.

But when Rock showed up, I saw a lot of chatter online that was like, oh, I can't believe they didn't promote. If they would have promoted the Rock, it would have done even a bigger rating. But that reaction Rock got when he walked out was a real reaction. You don't get real reactions like that unless you elicit them. And having that surprise, long term has more value than the short term additional ratings increase you may or may not get by promoting it. So if you talk to Tony, spend time trying to convince him, whether it's Edge, whether

it's Elias, whether it's anybody that he's going to bring in next, just surprise us. You'll be better off. So with a talent. Go get more over. one more thing I want to touch on before we wrap this one up and I appreciate you having me on this very special edition of strictly business there was some news that kind of got buried today and all the smackdown news and all of the release news it was maybe quietly and maybe this wasn't the best time to announce it but

w w e announced that they're running elimination chamber in february of next year and they're running it in perth australia they're running a stadium show I hope I'm pronouncing this right at Opta Stadium. It seats 60,000 people when it's in soccer mode. I'm sure when they block out some screens, they'll lose some of the stands, but then we'll pick it up on the field. So I would guess it would wind up somewhere around 55 to 60,000 in the end.

My question is, how do you expect they'll do? Do you think this will be like another crash at the castle or whatever it was called a few years ago? Do you think this could be a new market for them? I mean, this will certainly set the all-time WWE Australian record, no? Sure. The only thing that's weird about Perth is, and Perth, we did the Hulkomania tour in Australia

with the Condons as a promoter. One of the venues we used was in Perth. It's a million miles from nowhere. It's like the Dwight Yolkham song. I mean, you know, you've got Sydney and Melbourne over on the eastern side of the continent. And then you've got purse down here. And everything in between is a vast desert called the outback. So I don't know.

Obviously, you know, WWE knows what they're doing. They did their research. They're confident that they're going to be able to be successful there. But man, that's a trek. That's a relatively small market. Well, of course, I was there a while. back, but Perth is not like a major city. It's a, it's a smaller market. So it'll be interesting to see. We should mention that WWE has ran Australia in a big stadium

show before over 21 years ago. It was August 10th, 2002 in Melbourne. They had 56,734. So if I was a betting man, I would think that our goal is 57,000 or more. I'm pulling for them. I'm so thrilled with the success that AEW had at Wembley Stadium. I hope that we can continue that on an international basis, at least, with Australia and WW. Would you be surprised to see AEW roll the dice in Australia? Maybe not in Perth, but in another market next year. Yeah. Look, they're not ready for it. They've got to shore up things at home. You don't start expanding internationally, especially a place like Australia, why the bottom is falling out of your live event business domestically. It's just not a good idea. But

you know anything can happen see i would have went the other way with that i appreciate your two cents but i remember a time where impact was struggling to get 1,500 people to a show but then it seems like they'd go to the uk and man they can they could get 10,000 in there yeah but you know and then you come home and you're right back to where you were it's my opinion i've i've used this analogy so many times when talking about the professional wrestling business in almost any aspect of it. Building a brand in the professional wrestling industry is very much like building a house.

And you can't start putting in the electrical and the plumbing before the foundation's done. You can't start putting up walls and framing the outside structure of the house before your foundation is strong. You can't put the roof on. You can't put the walls up before you get the electrical in. You've got to deuce things in certain,

order in order to have a strong foundation for your house and your business. And I think jumping out there and expanding internationally or adding more programming content before you've figured out how to shore up your core programs, I just think it's a mistake. You're spreading your resources too thin. I just think it's a mistake. Having been there, having done that, both ways, my opinion, it's a mistake. but what do I know well I know we're going to have some fun uh we're going to have a lot of fun

actually this coming Monday you and I are going to get together right here on the 83 weeks feed and we're going to be talking about your assent behind the scenes in wCW how you became the executive producer and then how you became the big boss and the big seat we're doing that next week and the week after that on 83 weeks a little teaser we've got the only time Brett Hart wrestled Hulk Hogan and a singles match on television. Whoa. We doing that? Just follow me, Eric.

I got it, buddy. You got it. All right. I'm Gina. And in the meantime, you'll see us online. Keep up with Eric's travels as he's going to be making his way across the pond. He's at E. Bischoff on Twitter. And we'll see you next week right here on 83 weeks.

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