83 Weeks with Eric Bischoff - Strictly Business with Eric Bischoff #62: HOOK vs. Samoa Joe, Sting's Last Match, and More

Episode Date: January 19, 2024

In this week's episode of Strictly Business, Eric Bischoff is back looking at the business of the business! Hear a discussion on Sports Illustrated allegedly being gutted, Eric's thoughts on HOOK's presentation vs. Samoa Joe, Sting's last match, Okada leaving New Japan, and more! Special thanks to this week's sponsors! Manscaped- Get 20% Off and Free Shipping with the code WRESTLEBIZ at Manscaped.com. BlueChew- Try BlueChew FREE when you use our promo code WRESTLEBIZ at checkout--just pay $5 shipping. FOLLOW ALL OF OUR SOCIAL MEDIA at https://83weekslinks.com/ Stop throwing your money on rent! Get into a house with NO MONEY DOWN and roughly the same monthly payment at SaveWithConrad.com On AdFreeShows.com, you get early, ad-free access to more than a dozen of your favorite wrestling podcasts, starting at just $9! And now, you can enjoy the first week...completely FREE! Sign up for a free trial - and get a taste of what Ad Free Shows is all about. Start your free trial today at AdFreeShows.com If your business targets 25-54 year old men, there's no better place to advertise than right here with us on Strictly Business. You've heard us do ads for some of the same companies for years...why? Because it works! And with our super targeted audience, there's very little waste. Go to AdvertiseWithEric.com now and find out more about advertising with Strictly Business. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

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Bischoff, Easy E. What's cooking, man? Another day in paradise, brother. Another day in paradise. How's the weather out there? You know, it's how bad. It's sunny, probably about 10, 12 degrees, no wind. It's a balmy day in January here in Cody, Wyoming. But you know, I love the cold weather, because it keeps the riff-raff out. We got a big... No to 500,000 people in the whole state of Wyoming. The state geography geographically is about the same size as Colorado. I just love it, man.

There's just so few people here. And one of the reasons are it's just, it's tough. It's got to be tough to live here. Got to be willing to give up a lot to live here. Right. We got a big snow storm over here right now and trying to stay warm, keep the blood pumping here by doing this fantastic.

podcast with you that we encourage everyone to check out 83 weeks.com. Make sure you subscribe there. And of course, add free shows.com. If you have an opportunity to get on at board with our team, we've got an awesome cast of characters and crew. I know a lot of you, Eric, are going to be in Tampa for Top Guy Rumble. Is that correct?

Yeah, as a matter of fact, I think I'm leaving Tuesday. I'm going to be in New Jersey with best trivia ever on Wednesday night, I believe, and then going to Tampa Thursday morning, and I'll be in Tampa. I don't know. We're going to hang out for about a week. You know, we got a grandson down there and my kids and, you know, friends, and it's warm. So we're going to hang out a little bit.

I know. I know it's never a task for you to enjoy some sun down there in Clearwater in Tampa. You're doing a Hogan trivia contest, is that correct? Yeah. Yeah, Kent Tucci-O. of best trivia ever is coming on down. And we're going to do a night. I think we're at Hogan's hangout upstairs.

We've rented that facility. Hulk Hogan's not going to be there. So don't get your hopes up. Don't come there expecting autographs, hoping whatever. It's just all of us. And what better place to, you know, check a Royal Rumble or whatever else is going on in wrestling

and have a party and throw back a cocktail or two? It should be fun. But yeah, we're going to do a Hulk Hogan trivia conscious. Dave Penzer, I think is going to be my lifeline. I would, I would Dave Penzer definitely will be a lifeline for that. He's got looking forward to it. He doesn't know that yet. So if he hears this

surprise. Penza's got some photographic memory when it comes to WCW. Him and I Oh man, I need him. I need him on my team because I can't remember what I did yesterday. That's true. I can confirm that. We got, we got art in here. It says, hey, hey, grandpa, Eric and John,

of course. Good to see you, Art. Thanks for joining us. what's up on ad-free shows.com. We got kind of a myriad of topics to go through today here, Erica. We were supposed to have AJ Francis, unfortunately, due to a scheduling conflict. We weren't able to nab him down this week, but we will get him next week. That's the hope here. And if not next week, we will line up. And he's all over the place, isn't he?

I mean, and he's fun to watch. I mean, he's got some energy like him. Yeah. We had him on when the show was just behind the paywall on ad-free shows. So I'd love to get him in front of everyone. And he's really crushing it right now. I'm a big fan of his work. He's got the gift of gab.

I think he's going to break into the sports TV realm and be very successful. So excited to have me. He's a big character. Like I said, I, you know, we've talked to him on this show, and I just instantly liked him. And I think we had a kind of a little bit in common in terms of philosophical view of the wrestling world and all that.

But I can't wait to sit down and have dinner with him and get to know him as a person because he's got a lot of really positive energy, and I always dig that. Yeah, for sure. We got Adam in here. join us from overseas what's going on adam we got mouthpiece murphy in here as well uh where do you all start eric because we did get some major media news about an hour before we started taping a couple hours or so beforehand and i know there was some wrestling stuff you wanted to get to but uh i i feel like we can't ignore this sports illustrated stuff right yeah it's it's times they are changing

man i and i'm sure you do too how old are you john just have a curiosity i turn 31 next week Oh, my God. Like, I know I was 31. I know I was. I don't remember it. I don't even remember what that was like. I'd have to work hard to think about it. But regardless, you were young enough and old enough to remember.

I mean, Sports Illustrated was like, that was it. That was the institution. You made the cover of Sports Illustrated. You were a made man or woman, depending on sport and your sex. But, man, that was the epitome, right? That was the top of the sports media pyramid. If you could make the cover of Sports Illustrated, you were made. And now it's going to be in the Smithsonian.

That's too bad, really. Yeah, every single sports journalist when they were young inspired in some way to be involved with Sports Illustrated. And I was fortunate enough where I had some of my stuff published a couple times in Sports Illustrated. and that was like peak of just just having that association the name brand association was mind blowing it's so sad eric and this came as a result of the arena group basically when they acquired them a few years ago and they just started gutting it since 2019 and they announced that they were laying off pretty

much the entire Sports Illustrated staff in the coming weeks here and it's so did they say what are they going to do with the brand what are they going to do with sports illustrator they're okay we're going to gut it and then what you know there's been no direction given but one would think that if they're going to gut the entire staff that they don't view a whole lot of equity in it i'd imagine at this juncture it's too powerful of a brand just to put it in the warehouse i mean something's got to happen with it and look the magazine but i can't you know it's it's still shocks me to the stay i was at a grocery store the other day and uh just walking around killing time you know it's a big deal for me. When I go to the grocery store in the middle of the week, it's kind of like,

wow, civilization. This is cool. People, but I'm walking around and I go over to the magazine rack. I always do that. It's a habit. I've done that since I was a kid. But I go to the magazine rack and I'm looking at all these magazines knowing damn well, nobody's buying them. I mean, I don't even know why they have magazines in a store. I guess some people buy them or they wouldn't, but the print business, the magazine business is, I'm surprised it's still exists. And I'm surprised, really, to be honest, as sad as I am to see the Sports Illustrated brand get stuck in a warehouse, I'm surprised it didn't happen sooner. I mean, there is so much coverage of sports 24 hours a day on so many different platforms. How do you

compete? Unless you're writing great, in-depth, human interest. stories. Which is what they did. That's what they did for so long. They specialized in those long form human interest pieces. And Eric, unfortunately, the journalism industry, the sports journalism industry, and even on a greater scale, the way we

consume content in general has changed so much where everything is you got to have the short form, you got to have the 30 second reels. Everyone's doom scrolling on their phones. That's why people are so fucking stupid. Yeah. Nobody knows anything anymore. All they know is a headline and a bumper sticker. Yeah.

Bumper sticker mentality. It's so pervasive, sports, pop culture, politics. It's why I got so many dumb people in politics. It's just crazy. People just don't read anymore. They don't read in depth anymore. And it's really unfortunate. And I haven't obviously picked up a Sports Illustrated in a long time.

Or I would have known that they've been focusing on long form human interest stories. But man, that's where it's at. The stories, I don't care if it's baseball or cricket or. The NFL, it's the stories that make the sport. Well, and they struggled, they struggled greatly with that transition to shorter form content. And then it was back in December, the arena group actually fired S.I. CEO, Ross Levinson, because S.I was caught publishing stories with fake author names and profile pictures that were all generated by AI. And they didn't disclose that or anything of that nature.

And that's where this is all headed to, where AI is generating game recaps and feature pieces. And that's terrifying to me because we're losing that human note that makes sports writing or sports journalism or whatever form of content consumption so authentic and valuable, you know? Speaking of AI, did you see last week, about two weeks ago I was talking about AI and I mean, I just made an offhand comment, I think, on 83 weeks about how, you know, I thought AI was going to have an impact or I was hoping that AI would have an impact on some areas of the professional wrestling industry creatively. And it was really an offhand comment. I didn't really mean to go in depth in it or anything like that. but somebody was listening to the show and a couple of guys had their own podcast.

And they actually went to AI. They heard what I said. They referenced it. They said, hey, let's try it and see what happens. And I don't know what, how they, you know, prompted whatever AI platform they use. We'll call it chat GPT just for the sake of argument discussion. But they plugged in, you know, Randy Orton and Cody Rhodes. And they came out with, and it was, they did a lot.

on our podcast. And they came out with, and one of the first things I laughed at is, you know, once it started kicking out a story, it was in a three-act structure, act one, act two, act three-act. Imagine that. An actual story, not what a Dale, Dave Meltzer version of a story is, but a real story. And it was actually pretty good. It was a good starting point. You know, one of the toughest things I think when you're in creative is, okay, write a story. Give me a story about Randy Orton and Cody Roads. The hardest part is getting started and coming up with that core idea, the premise, as it were. That's sometimes the most challenging when you're sitting at a blank piece of paper and you have to write down that first sentence.

And that's one of the beauties, I think, of AI. And in the example of these guys did, I wish I had it. and at my fingertips because I have you played here. It was really fascinating and fun. But the beauty of AI is you can plug in some parameters, a couple prompts, send off AI in the, AI in the direction you want it to go. And it kicks something back to you.

Now, would you just go to television with it? Of course not, but it's a starting point. You can go back and you can massage it. You can tweak it. Move a couple of things around. Add a few things that will make it more. more interesting. And before you know it, you've got at least the framework of an interesting idea that you can sit around the table and debate and work with. So, you know, my theory is

when it comes to certain wrestling organizations, better to have artificial intelligence than none at all. Well, in the middle of you telling us that story, I had AI write an entire storyline. for a television feud between raw general manager eric bischoff and smackdown general manager nick all this and it gave us an entire three-act structure for it see what i mean see what i mean folks and and you know we don't have time to talk about it here unless it's really good but it's a starting point it's something to work with and again you prompted correctly and you could come up with some pretty good stuff i did it Six months ago when, when AI or chat GPT first became readily available, whatever it was, a year ago.

And I think I spent an entire afternoon playing with it because it was just so fascinating to me that you can crank out such interesting stuff. But I can also see how, I mean, that's what the writer's strike was all about, right? Because writers are looking at AI and realizing, wait a minute, it may not need me. How do I participate in this? It's really fascinating. It's really, really fascinating. According to Chad GPT, Team Bischoff defeats Team All This at WrestleMania

in a five-on-five winner-takes-all tag team match after the Rock returns and helps Team Bischoff win at WrestleMania. Why don't you send that right on over to Paul LeVecke and let's see if we can get some to start it here. Hey, could get us to Rock Roman, right? I'd be happy with a free ticket to go watch. Constellation Prize. Hey, it is interesting, man. Because even, like you said, if it's not giving you the nitty gritty,

even if you just have the general construct, it's a very unique way to pivot into pro wrestling storytelling. But in the context of journalism, it just sucks. And my heart goes out to all those people laid off because it's a lot of really great journalists and communications professionals who are going to be losing their jobs as a result of this, unfortunately. Eric, if they're talented, they will adapt. They will land on their feet.

It may take time, as we know, you know, it's a tough world out there right now. It'll take time, but talented people always prevail. There was another note on the media front that I wanted to bring up. Amazon is going to be partnering with Diamond Sports as part of restructuring an agreement, which will allow 18 regional sports networks under the Valley Sports Banner to be, brought underneath the Amazon ownership. Now, not all of them are going to be redistributed, but this will allow a lot of people who had lost access to ballet sports

to be able to watch local teams in the NBA, in the NHL and Major League Baseball that had lost access to that. And I find it interesting because we've talked about a lot in the past few months here with Amazon potentially being interested in WWE. Clearly, Eric, expanding that sports profile is something that Amazon values I know it's not a direct correlation, but what did you think of that news when I sent that your way? Again, it's a precursor, I think, which is what you're really saying, in terms of where we're going. You know, I mean, I can see a situation five years from now where traditional networking cable television are pretty much gone.

I mean, they're becoming less and less important. Still important today, but the deterioration of the audience is quite obvious and consistent. And who knows what the world is going to look like five years from now? You may only have one outlet. You may be watching everything you want to watch on Amazon. I don't know, man. It's a fascinating world in some respects, kind of frightening in others in a way, frightening only in the sense of the fear of the unknown.

And so much is happening so fast when it comes to technology that it's unnerving, but we'll all survive, man. We'll adapt. That's a great thing about human beings is we have the ability to adapt and the strong will survive. Well, we kind of hit on it briefly last week, but, you know, the NFL was streaming one of the playoff games last week, the Chiefs game last week, the Chiefs Dolphin. game on Peacock exclusively. And they did 23 million viewers on Peacock. So you had to be a Peacock subscriber to watch this game. And that was about six and a half million higher than the regular season average for

NFL viewership. So Eric, it shows you if people want to watch the product, they're going to be willing to pay for it. If you build it, they will come. And who was it, John? You're the sports guy. I mean, I'm a really peripheral sports fan. in general but who was the player involved in that game can't remember which team that was

complaining because the game wasn't available on free TV and it was only available there was somebody and it was a fairly well-known player because he got quoted and made the news but was actually upset that the game was being streamed but not available oh it was uh yeah it was uh from the Chiefs. It was Charles Omine, who I believe is how you pronounce his last name. He's a defensive end. He went on X, Twitter, Twix, whatever. And he said,

us playing on Peacock only is insane. I won't lie. And yeah, he wasn't too thrilled. That didn't age well. That only took about a week. Well, I said, you know, everyone was bitching and moaning about it on social. I said, guys, within five years,

this is going to be the norm week in and week out in the NFL. You know what I think is going to happen in the NFL? What do you think? Super Bowl is going to be pay-per-view only. I totally think it's plausible. You're going to have to buy the paper. You're going to have to buy the Super Bowl.

Can you imagine how much money they'll make off that? Times they are a changing, brother. Times they are a changing. Man, the Super Bowl becoming a la carte, and then having a bidding war over who gets the rights to stream it. awesome that would be something what would you charge for the super bowl i don't know i mean what's a ticket cost if you're going to buy a ticket what's a mid-range ticket i mean just to get in it's probably three four hundred dollars

so maybe it's part of a package or whatever but i don't know i think the you know you've got to price it for the average person you know the average person you know the average person Can't afford to go to the Super Bowl. Anybody with a brain on their head doesn't want to go to the Super Bowl quite honestly. I've been to a couple of them and I will never, ever go to another one. But, you know, between the cost of the ticket and everything else associated with being at the Super Bowl, you're probably looking at a minimum of a $1,500 weekend if you get to drive there, throw some hotels and more fares on top of it.

Now you're, you know, you're looking at three or four grand. So, you know, what is an average person who might not ever even contemplate going to a Super Bowl? What's their, what's their threshold? What's their pain point? I would imagine $99, $199, $199,000, $149 right now. Probably somewhere in that area. Makes sense. It's a Super Bowl.

People are going to be hearing that come out of your mouth. I'll never pay for this. I would never do that. Oh, yes, you will. Yep. You bet you will. I bet you never thought you paid $12 for a frigging big Mac Coke and some fries either, but you are. Eric, what if I told you that I could get you a product right now for absolutely free?

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Now, Eric, I don't know about you, but in recent years, the Super Bowl halftime show has bored me. It's like 15, 20 minutes of nothing happening. There's an artist on there that I don't really care about. That sounds like a good time to get a little business in on your own, doesn't it? Yeah, really. I mean, you're watching that clock in the second quarter. You get down until the two-minute warning.

You know, it takes longer than two minutes to get through the two minute warning, obviously with, you know, timeouts and plays and going out of bounds and all that. But that would be about a perfect time because usually by the time you hit the two minute warning, right, you have that little break. By the time you actually get to halftime, you're looking at most likely, I don't know, what the average is. Seems like 12, 15, 18 minutes. Pop that blue two, right around that two minute warning, maybe a minute or two minutes. before that two minute warning you're good to go by halftime and 15 minutes if you're in that

ultra high performance kind of frame of mind because everything is working exactly the way you wanted to yeah it's a valuable 15 minutes and it's a hell of a lot more fun than watching a halftime show i don't care who's in it you'll be keeping things up and through the uprights and you can do both you could actually watch a halftime show while you're having a great time that's kind of an interesting play. It is an interesting play. I'm going to try the Super Bowl. I'm going to test that theory out.

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Visit bluechoo.com for more details and important safety information. Thank Blu Chu for sponsoring this podcast. I thank BluCoo for a hell of a lot more than that, but you bet you for sponsoring this podcast. You want to talk about Samoa Joe and Hook. I know you were really intrigued by the promo that aired on social media for Hook. Did you get a chance to watch the match? Yeah, I did.

I did. What do you think? I loved it. I loved it. Now, you can see on social media, people are picking apart. Hooke should have sold better, kicked up, fuck off. It was a great match. And I posted on social media when I saw whatever morning it was,

Wednesday morning, Thursday morning, I remember what I saw. I got up in the morning and I see this hook vignette on social media. And it really caught my eye because I'd never heard Hook speak, whether he has or hasn't in dynamite. Moot Point is I watch it sometimes, but I don't watch it every single week. Because, you know, I know his dad, right? I worked with TAS and I like TAS. So I check out the promo and I was like, whoa, this is really good.

This is, this is what we need more of in AEW because they're backstage. And it's not just AEW. by the way, the whole idea of a backstage promo is so fucking dated. I don't know why people still do them. Because they actually take away 75% of the time, in my opinion. It's just my opinion. Folks, don't get your balls all twisted up. It's just my opinion.

in. But when I see a backstage promo, that's almost an instant channel changer for me. They suck. And particularly in AEW, because there's a lot of young talent there that have never had the opportunity to really develop their mic skills to the extent that they should or want to. And you put somebody who's really not that great on the mic, and you put them in that sterile fucking cold dead backstage environment and you have this contrived back and forth none of it feels real none of it really seems like it's advancing a character none of it really feels like it's advancing a narrative or a storyline it's just like they're there and they're so bad rarely do i see a backstage interview and i'm not just talking about a w i'm talking about

WWE do. Every time I see one of those like, for me to death. And it's so, I want to say it's easier, but the hook vignette is an example of a way to get a character over, to establish a narrative

because that's the only reason you fucking do a backstage promo. You're advancing a story or you're building a character. Otherwise, you're wasting time. But if you look at hooks, then yet, it really, I think, for me, it made me, in fact, it's the reason that I watched dynamite that night. That one vignette and social media is the only reason that I tuned into dynamite.

And I'm pretty sure I wasn't the only one. Because it felt real. It was relatable. You know, Hook came out. He didn't come out there and talk about what a tough guy is. It wasn't yelling at the top of his lungs. He was trying to be too cute. he was just having a conversation, and he got himself over. He got the match over, and he never once denigrated his opponent. And it reminded me when I got done watching it, and it wasn't me that coined this phrase or this observation. But if you don't get your opponent over and you shit all over your opponent in your

promo, and if you beat him, what'd you beat? You beat a piece of shit. If you call your opponent a piece of shit in your promo, and this is an exaggeration, obviously, I'm trying to make a point. But if you, if you, if you,

if you shit all over your opponent and just do a phenomenal job of denigrating your opponent, and you beat them, what you beat? Right. Worse yet, if you lose, now you're really in a hole. You know what I mean?

It's, there's no thought. And if you go back to TNA, we used to do a thing, after we were done taping T&A, and I can't remember what the show was called. It was a separate show, and all it was was promos, but we shot them in a, on the fly, as they call it, in the reality, nonscripted business, very definitely nonscripted, catching, you know, you're kind of like a fly on the wall.

You hear the response to a question that was never asked, but you can tell by the context of the answer. You knew what the question was. It was such a great way of developing a character and advancing a narrative in a way that felt so much more believable because you're not standing in that sterile fucking ridiculous backstage set environment. And again, I don't care if it's WWE or AEW or T&A or Impact or whatever it's called or NWA. The minute I see is two shot or three shot somebody holding a stick and it has nothing to do with their talent you know rene piquette i think is a talented talented talented woman but you don't see it i'm just standing holding a mic it's just like oh bore me to fucking tears but that vignette with hook it got him over

it got joe over i mean you knew when you saw that book knew he was the insurmountable odds in fact I quoted him, you know, therefore the grace of God go away. That was the premise of that promo, meaning everybody that saw that, I would say most people, could kind of relate to it, right? Because Hook went into that match knowing he was outgunned. He knew he was going to take an ass kicking.

He didn't care. He was going to do his best. He had belief in himself. He had confidence in himself. And I think that's a quality that we all wish to some degree or another, consciously or not, subconsciously perhaps, we all wish we were like that. We all wish we could walk into a job interview that we know we're probably not for no reason. We're unlikely to get that job, but just go in there and come out and you win.

Even though the odds are against you, that's a quality we all wish we had. And that's, that was the premise of that hook promo. And that's why. it worked. And I was so, I almost commented, because I responded to that, that post of that vignette immediately. And I put it over as best I could in 280 characters and be, you know, be honest about it. And then as soon as I got down, I was thinking to myself, oh, I pray to God that the match reflects the same feeling that the promo did, because the promo was so good. I didn't want to tune in and see a mask that was like, you know, having seen, seeing, seeing hook come out like fucking King Kong swinging from the rafters

and doing all kinds of superhuman shit. You know, he just, he went out there and he fought for his life and he was tough and he took an ass whipping. And who doesn't admire a guy who is a half, half the size of his opponent or less? Jesus doesn't give a fuck and goes out there and fights his ass off. win, lose, or draw. That's, that's, that's, that's an aspirational character. Yeah.

An aspirational character's work in a way that a traditional baby face won't. You know, typical wrestling baby face. I just thought it was so good. I was so proud. You know, I don't think I've ever met Taz's son. If I have, it was very, very brief. But I was so proud of him because he, he set himself so far apart. everybody else

just with that one vignette. Joe's presence. Joe's presence in that match was fantastic too. I really just... Yeah, I didn't talk enough about Joe. I guess it's because I assume people know how I feel about Joe. He's a phenomenal talent. Nothing but respect for Joe.

Yeah. What do you think about the idea? And I want to get into that nitty-gritty of the storytelling element of this. The idea of taking the camera two Hook's house, seeing him on the streets of New York there. What do you think that did?

I know you just said, oh, it can be a sterile environment backstage, but the idea that we were introduced to his home, what do you think that did for helping convey more about Hook's character? You know, whether it's at his home or just out on the street, it's an environment other than the backstage,

which is a phony, sterile, useless waste of space, in my opinion. Have I said that in the last? yet on this show but when you because it's different right the minute you see hook standing out in front of his house in the snow it's at night everything about it before he says a word is different than everything else you're used to see immediately part of the controversy equation better than different than less than those are your three options if you're going to do something anything i don't care what it is in any business any form of entertainment

You have three choices, folks. You're either going to be able to do it better than everybody else, less than everybody else, or by doing it different than everybody else, you've got a real shot. And that's what that was. Before I heard a syllable come out of hook's mouth, it caught my attention because it was different. And I think it's great.

Now, you can overdo that, too, by the way. We've seen a million vignettes. I mean, vignettes have been around since forever. You know, some of my favorite ones with the, Kurt Henning vignettes, the Mr. Perfect vignettes, they were just so awesome and so far ahead of their time and entertaining. Kurt was amazing. The idea, the concept, and the execution was awesome. But vignettes have been around for a long time and long before the Mr. Perfect vignettes. But doing them in a way that feels like you just captured a moment, that's the on-the-fly aspect

of it. You're just capturing In this case, Hook, in a moment, and he just happened to be outside in front of his house. And it happened to be snowing and it happened to be nighttime. Yeah. Made it feel so real. Now, where you can go wrong with that application is by overdoing it. And spending two, let's go inside the house. Hook, sit down in a little room with Hook and see what his life is like.

Now, that doesn't feel real. We've seen that a zillion times. That's not different than. The way they did it was who, I don't know who produced. that, by the way. Whoever it was needs to be doing more of those. Whoever it was needs to be directing everybody else that does those types of narrative efforts. Because whoever it was has a real feel for what really works and how to use that opportunity to build and enhance a character. I would guess that was probably John Carlo, who was the man behind the Vlad

documentary who's now with AEW and he does that they should give him a raise put him in charge of something and give him give him more room to to work because he's great at it i asked about the environment because you know i studied a lot of amazing storytellers over the years for my day job and steve hartman was always one of my favorites who is this prolific storyteller for cbs this morning. And one of his go-to storytelling devices that I totally would rip off all the time for a lot of my pieces was every single one of his stories, Eric, started with a slow push on the environment. And I was listening to an interview he did one time. And he said, the reason that he did that was because when people see right away that they're in a unique environment or they're

in a different place than where they are right now or than what they're used to, they become more immersed into where the subject is and they start to try to identify with the subject because now they have an idea of where they are and they can get a feel for that and it's not something you're consciously thinking about as a viewer but i think there's a method to that madness and in the wrestling context it can really help build foundation for a character that allows you to identify with them when you're separating from the military no one tells you how hard it can be to get your civilian life up to speed but with VA benefits It doesn't have to be.

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That's Four Imprint Certainty. Need your order fast? Four Imprint offers quick turnaround options, too. Visit 4imprint.com and see how easy ordering can be. It's just my take on that. No, we're in agreement. That's why I hope somebody that's listening over on Amfrey shows sitting in front of a computer because I can't do it right now.

But there was that I just can't remember. And I created the show, by the way, which is really interesting. But I hope somebody can Google that the show that followed Impact, TNA while I was there. And I think the show series lasted for, I don't know, a couple months. It was so good. But go back and watch some of that. If you can find it on YouTube or find it wherever you get impact. because that that's the format.

In fact, I'll tell you something is funny. And Jason and I really, because we're producing so much reality television and that on the fly type of interview was such like a mainstay of reality television at that point in time. And at the time that we came up with the idea of doing it for impact, nobody else was doing that in wrestling. Everybody was doing the backstage promo or in ring promo. Occasionally, you'd have a vignette or a scene that would happen outside, but that was rare. It wasn't part of a narrative that those types of seeds usually advanced an angle or a story.

But in terms of narrative only, nobody else was doing the on-the-fly type interviews that Jason and I had been doing as well as everybody else that was producing reality television. Nobody had figured out how to apply that to wrestling. So we created a show, you know, Spike was interested in another show. but they had a very limited budget t and a wanted to expand their programming but they had a very limited budget so jason i put our heads together and just said okay let's come up with a half hour or an hour following impact or whatever they call the show i'm confused anymore um that would air that would be different than the show would be another show but it would be advancing the characters of the stories and it actually rocked you know like at 11 o'clock at night each

and we were delivering 800,900,000 viewers, over a million viewers initially at like 1130 at night. So it worked really, really well. And one of the things that also did is it gave talent time to learn how to be a character. Because there wasn't somebody standing in front of them going, get your points in two up, no, went long, let's redo that. it gives young talent that really hasn't had the opportunity to develop their narrative skill sets to really learn how to be their character and it was so much more believable i mean i we did some with frankie kizarian and christ danielsen that were just so good a j

jay j styles did something that were real kenn anderson they were so believable it was it was really and it made me wonder you know why is it anybody else doing this. Okay, fast forward. I'm in Nashville a couple weeks after we started this initiative. We started integrating some of them into the actual, to the body of the show. I mean, the style works so well. It was like, oh, that's so good. We've got to use it in TNA. I didn't really want to. Dixie did, though, because they were really, really good. And they were different. It just made the show feel different. And we were kind of proud of ourselves and excited in about two weeks or three weeks after we started that initiative. I was in Nashville

one night. I had a meeting the next morning, whatever, and I was out grabbing a bite to eat. having a beer and i'm watching monday night raw it sure as shit what do i see i see the on-the-fly style interview and we use different cameras we used what was called a 5g camera at the time which was new it had a very film yeah cinematic very cinematic very cinematic and at the time these cameras were relatively new to to the marketplace and being used in television but the difference was night and day so you'd shoot these venue you'd shoot these on-the-fly interviews and it felt very felt like you're watching a movie it was so good and sure as shit man i'm watching wwe monday night ron they followed our footsteps once again setting the pace

teaching people how to really produce wrestling well paid off an exaggeration but come it paid off for a w to be different than here because eric from 930 to the end of the show in the quarter hours dynamite went from 754k to 930 one, all for the hook and Samoa Joe main event. Imagine that. And it kind of proves my point. You know, people will, you know, whine and bitch and mon, oh, you hate AEW. You're jealous because don't even give you a job.

I mean, really childish shit, right? Simply because I critique and I'm honest. You just heard me dumping all over the WWE because they're still doing those silly ass backstage promos that actually, in my opinion, are a waste of time and achieve nothing. That's my opinion. And whenever I'm critical of AEW, of course, all of the, you know, fans of AEDA to come out en masse and, you know, call me a hater and whatever. But if all AEW needs is a commitment to that style of presentation, and it will have an effect,

as this show, as this vignette did, one vignette. had a very positive impact in the final quarter hour of that show. Go back, and I don't know the answer to this, but I'd like to go back and look at AEW's ratings over the last six months and see, three months, see how many times they've had a jump in that final quarter hour. I have never looked at that information. I would be willing to bet the answer is few and far between.

It's not often. It's, their shows typically, they start out at a million or a million in change, and by the time you're done, you're lucky to see 650,000 viewers, which is the exact opposite of what a program director at a network wants to see. That is not a good sign for a studio executive. You don't want to lose your lead-in. The goal, the theory is that you build upon your lead-in when you're in prime time. You're not losing ground in your lead-in.

you but make that commitment you just did it you saw the results you don't have no one has to listen to me no one has to feel like oh if he said it that we do it then it's going to look like whatever check your ego at the door you did something it worked really well do it more as opposed to the flip side of the brilliant and talented work of jean carlo or whoever else was involved in that and then you got the young bucks shooting on c m punk without using his name are you fucking kidding me tony con would you please divorce yourself from the dave melzer dirt sheet booking theory how do you how do you feel about the bucks being stings likely last opponent let me finish ripping on that fucking storyline the promise of that story that story

is so lame, and it is an absolutely, an absolute reflection of everything that is wrong with creative in AEW. That whole incident with CM Punk made Tony Kahn and AEW look horrible. Tony comes out, and I was in fear of my life. You got an agent biting people. You got your VPs, executive VPs, in the middle of it all. It is in a horribly embarrassing brand killing situation. Why in the fine fuck would you use that as the premise of a story? It's just, it's so childish. It is the Dave Meltzer Dirtsheet booking formula. And it's not working. What a contrast. Hook, Samoa Joe is set up for that and the setup for the bucks and whoever they're bitching about it is just embarrassing to me now to answer your question you know i'm i'm i'm going to hold i'm going to reserve judgment i think

the fact that that that was just recently announced and did i even hear i don't know i did i may not have watched the whole thing with the bucks did they even reference the fact that they're going to be facing staying and derby allen in that it's it hasn't been official the match has not been officially announced and how do i know it Well, because they mentioned Sting, they confronted Sting. I mean, that's where this is very much headed. Oh, okay. So we're teasing it at this point.

Yeah, we're teasing it, but it's headed towards that being. So it hasn't been booked? It hasn't been officially announced, no. Okay. Then it's unfair to be critical of it. But once it's announced and once we know it, there better damn well be a good story there because there's no connective tissue otherwise.

There needs to be an anthony. answer why why the bucks what's their issue and if there's no answer other than well sting really wanted somebody that can bounce around no in that promo sorry to cut you up but in that promo they started laying their foundations for what their motives are so they did so they did reference it in the promo they were so they referenced in the promo that they want to lean back into being executive vice presidents of the company and they want to return a to be in the company that's in their vision and in their vision you're not having and i'm not speaking verbatim here i'm paraphrasing in in their vision you don't have all of these old wannabes or you know

old hags essentially they wanted to be the way that they want a w to be how it started so was there was there a suggestion that sting is an old hag again not verbatim i'm just i'm paraphrasing here for that they don't want the sting types in their company they wanted to be in their vision of how it started like okay so it's kind of like their version of the millionaires club yes yes okay all right well you know that that deserves a let's wait and see me i mean i don't like to be critical of things that haven't happened yet you know but i'm really hopeful for sting's sake that there's a real and as you know david says oh there's a million stories at e w no there's fucking not if if they're not compelling and nobody cares they don't

exist. Trees that fall in the forest and no one hears them, for the most part, those trees never really fail because it doesn't matter. You can have angles and matchups and in your own mind think that it's a story just because it's there. But a story has a beginning, it has a middle, it has an end, it has plot points along the way that have been tried and true. and part of a formula that his existence is a beginning of fucking storytelling time. And if they're lacking those elements and that structure and discipline, it's not a story. It's an excuse for a match.

And I hope that whatever they do with the Bucks in Sting and Darby, that it reflects a real story with plot twist, plot points, an arc, builds to a crescendo, and creates a compelling enough story that you feel like you have to watch to see how this movie's going to end. But if it's nothing more than an excuse to have a match, I hope that's not the case. Now, as far as the physical match itself, I can certainly understand why the Bucks would be a great choice.

Enough set. Pretty easy to figure that out. But beyond all that, I just hope it's something that Sting wants, that Sting feels really good about. And no matter what, this is all about Sting. This isn't about Bucks, this is about AEW, this isn't about Darby Allen. This is about a guy who's, what, 61, 62 years old,

who's had such an amazing career, who's doing things at his age, it quite honestly just blow me away. And it's time. Sting has recognized that his time is now. And I really hope he goes out on a high note and 10 years from now can look back at this match and go, wow, I'm really proud of that.

To me, that's all that matters. Eric Bischoff's opinion, John Alba's opinion, the rating that it gets or the buy rate, whatever, however you want to measure it, it doesn't really matter. What matters this thing is happy. I hope the buck show up super tan for this match, Eric. They have to be ready for it. It's going to be the biggest match of their lives. Would that be funny?

They should show up. They should actually go and get, like, spend about $300 on spray cans, like starting about four days before and show up just looking like they've been roasting on a beach in the Bahamas. That would be awesome. Well, I know that they're going to be groomed AF because I would imagine the young bucks are putting in their order now for manscape packages because there's no better way to ring in the new year than with freshly shaved balls in.

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happy new balls. Eric, if they are tan enough, you know that they got to make sure they're keeping that landing area clean down there. And they can do that with Manscape's fifth generation lawnmower. It's not just a trimmer. It's your grooming sidekick equipped with two skin-safe bladeheads, a standard one for taking a little off the top and a new foil blade to go smooth wherever your heart desires. It's like having a personal stylist at your fingertips or, well, wherever you need it. Did you ever have a personal stylist, Eric? No, no, no. Well, now you can. No, I never, never, never even crossed my mind. But you know what did cross my mind is I'm getting

because once again, I lost a bet. Once again, I lost a bet that revolves around CM Punk. So this is the last time I'm betting anything if CM Punk's name. is involved but i'm getting my head shaved at the top guy rumble in in tampa next week next weekend but the the hook was because i've already had my head shaved once as a result of a bet that i lost this time i have to get my my head's going to get shaved but in the style of hawk for the road warriors love it and uh somebody who knows what they're doing is going to have to do it and i'm going to i'm in fact i'm going to bring my own manscape equipment with me

outstanding i got such a wide i love this product in my ears my nose you know every once in a while i got a trim up an eyebrow i got that unibrow shit going on just with my weed whacker it's awesome awesome dude do a full on manscape demonstration while you're doing this everyone's going to be impressed by that we may do it i mean i am i am i'm a whore i'll do anything to help support our partners including shaving my head. It's true. Well, as a gesture for New Year, they even threw in

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your balls in your budget feeling refreshed. Embrace a new you and definitely embrace a new trimor, courtesy of our friends over at Manskate. Eric, I want to wrap on a couple wrestling items here. Number one, pretty big industry news in terms of talent. Okada, a free agent.

He's leaving New Japan. This was announced just yesterday as we taped this, that he is leaving New Japan and Sports Illustrated reports. Well, Justin Barrasso reported, again, we talked about Sports Illustrated earlier, that this was not unexpected. It didn't catch anyone by surprise. He says, quote,

As of this moment, A.W. is the favorite to land O'Cona. He has a preexisting relationship with A.W. Tony Khan. And his visit to Dynamite this past October was for all intents and purposes, an opportunity to see how the company operated at a live television taping. He also says, quote, there is also significant interest from WWE, specifically from Paul Triple H. Levec and Sean Michaels. While it's difficult to procure information about Okada's camp, multiple sources close to New Japan, revealed that he has always wanted to perform at a WrestleMania. Levec is aware of this and has the right opponents, specifically A.J. Stiles and Finn Ballar, who have pre-existing relationships with Okada and would both be perfect for Okada's

debut if he were to wrestle at WrestleMania 40. Eric, I don't know how much of Okada's work you've seen, but he's a special talent, and he carries a lot of name recognition within the wrestling industry. What do you think of this news? And do you see him being a guy who could bring eyeballs somewhere? When you're separating from the military, no one tells you how hard it can be to get your civilian life up to speed. But with VA benefits, it doesn't have to be.

From the VA home loan requiring no down payment, to the GI Bill covering tuition, books, and cost of living, to VA health care offering top-ranked low-cost care designed specifically for veterans. All the support you need is at VA. I'm here telling every veteran because I wish someone had told me. Get what you earned. Visit shoes.va.org. Not all veterans are eligible for the type of amount of benefits mentioned here.

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Four Imprint offers quick turnaround options, too. Visit 4imprint.com and see how easy ordering can be. For Imprint, for certain. Possibly. I'm trying hard to figure out the way to say this without offending anybody or giving anybody an opportunity to reach into their hater bag simply because I'm taking a view of this that may be different than fanboys view. Outside of the Internet, in an incredibly small viewing audience for New Japan Pro Wrestling

here in the United States, the I would say 90% or no, that's too high, that's too high, I would say a large, large percentage of the domestic viewing audience for professional wrestling, that market of which WW, or excuse me, AEW has about 30% of tops, not even that because there's duplication, but outside of the internet and people who follow wrestling religiously on the boards and the social media, nobody knows who Okada is and the question is who can get him over who can take Okada from whatever Q rating he currently has meaning recognizability domestically here in the United States

because that's all that matters right now in terms of this conversation who has the best ability to take Okada from where he is now and elevate him to the level of an A.J. Stiles and some of the other big names in WWE. Can Tony Kahn do that? I think the answer to that is pretty obvious. He hasn't been able to do it with anybody else. MJF being kind of an exception. MJF is definitely the hottest talent in AEW right now.

but I think that has a lot more to do with MJF than it does Tony Kahn because if you look at everybody else in that roster, there just hasn't been anybody that you can say, wow, Tony Kahn in his booking philosophy and style took this unknown character and catapulted him into this next level. Outside of the Internet wrestling universe, 75% of that roster could walk down, the street in any city in the United States and nobody would recognize them outside of the

internet in the small portion of the audience that AEW has. So again, I'll go back to the question, who best to really, if Okada has the talent that I assume he does, that you're pointing out and that everybody else is excited about, if you're Okada, where do you want to go? Do you want to go somewhere where you could end up with a rocket ship strapped your back, or do you want to fight for table scraps over here in AEW and have the internet puts you over? It probably depends on him. Well, let me play a little pro-con of both. So the one good thing for him is regardless of where he goes, he's going to get a nice payday

in either of these companies. He's going to make a lot more money than he's making right now in Japan. so that's a baseline to start this conversation in a w he probably comes in as a top guy but what does the top guy but what does being a top guy in a w carry in terms of merit in terms of value in terms of consistency and staying power versus coming into wwee where they'd have a lot more work to do with him in terms of introducing to the audience and it would be a bit more of an uphill battle in that front But with the proper investment, you might be able to build a pretty damn big superstar. Like, think back to remember when Nakamura came in to WWE, Eric.

Nakamura was white hot when he came in. People were so into him. And then they didn't ride him all the way. And he cooled off significantly. Paul Levec would have to learn from that mistake that was made by the previous administration and have to present him as a top guy with earned equity over time. I think in both cases, it's probably a project, but I'm not sure. Absolutely, because until, look, until he can learn how to do a promo or gets a great mouthpiece,

because that's a big part of it, you know, and that's another factor in this equation, is in order to grow, to prosper, to be at that AJ styles level or above, you've got to be able to handle narrative. It's got to be more. you've got to bring more to the table than any ability to put on an exciting match inside of the ring. You've got to be able to have a character. You've got to be able to engage with a microphone.

You've got to be able to carry that portion of the package in order to survive or succeed in WWE. Because it's not the Dave Meltzer School of Booking where you just go out there and have amazing five-star matches and you're considered one of the best in the world. world. That's one aspect. In the WWE, the narrative is obviously an important part of it. You're never going to get to the top of the roster without that ability unless you've got a mouthpiece that's helping to do it for you. In AEW, that doesn't matter. All you've got to do is go out there and have a day Meltzer five-star match and you're a hero. Yay. You won't have any

impact on the business. It won't mean anything outside of the internet. But it's also not a prerequisite in AEW either, whereas it really is in WWE. And you can, you can be critical. And I know that you're not being critical. You're just pointing out a fact. Nakamura, part of the reason he didn't get over is that audience, the vast majority of the domestic television audience, even though Dave Meltzer doesn't care and Tony Kahn doesn't care, 80% of the television market for wrestling does. So that may be a decision. And you also, and this is the wild card.

Where's AEW going to be six months from now or a year from now, 18 months from now? You get that big contract, it may not mean much 18 months from now. If AEW and Tony Con are knocking on doors looking for a place for the show, things could change pretty quickly. I don't know how Tony's contracts are structured. I don't know what kind of guarantees there are in place, whatever, you know, that would allow somebody that makes a big career move to AEW in the midst of something tragic happening to their television partnership with

Turner currently, you know, what happens to AEW after that? What happens if they can't find a price? But nobody picks them up. Not saying it's going to happen. We still don't know what's going to happen with Warner Brothers discovery. I have a strong feeling about it based on the patterns that I've seen. And what I've been talking about on this show for the last, and then 83 weeks for the last years in terms of what needs to happen in order to grow.

So while I've got a strong opinion about it, nobody knows. It could work out really well for AEW. But if I'm if I'm Akata or his agent or his manager or just his friend, I would bring that up because it's a consideration. Yeah. It is definitely something that I hear everything that you're saying. I mean, we're talking about a guy who is one of the biggest stars ever to come out of New Japan. I mean, the past 10 years has been there, Hogan, essentially.

So that's going to be really, really interesting to see how long that process takes, where he wants to go with it. Where does he want to? Maybe, Eric, maybe he doesn't want to move to the United States full time. Who's to settle? And you know what? That's another, that's a big issue, right? it's not just like, you know, I think I'm going to move down the street or I'm not going to, I'm going to move to another city or I'm going to move to another town. You're talking about changing cultures.

Yeah. That's tough to do. That's tough to do. And it's also legally difficult. Unless you're scooting across the border with 8 million other people who are just crushing the party. Coming through the United States legally is a long, expensive. process that that is also a factor yeah so we will see what happens with that hey Greg Jacobson says TNA reaction was that the show that was it TNA reaction thank you great and I encourage

anybody listening to this excuse me go back and watch that show because it will illustrate much better than I can what I'm talking about and ask yourself if you care more about the talent if you see more depth in their characters, I think that's what I'm really trying to say, is that style of interview really lets you see depth in character, much more so than it's stupid stand-up backstage bullshit. I wish it would just stop.

I wish everybody would stop. I wish it would pass a freaking law that makes stand-up backstage interviews illegal because then it would force people to use their imagination. and come up with a better way or they could just go watch reaction on YouTube and it's right there in front of them and then you can just go do it there you go hey tNA's back baby tna's back and ready to go hey let's talk about that before we go i know i'm keeping you longer than you're

good you're good but man they're making some moves yeah they just need the tv they need the tv if they can get the tv deal where they're on a more accessible station where they're actually making money off their TV deal, TNA is going to have some serious momentum in 2024. Here's, and I'm going to say the same thing I've been seeing for so long, they're doing a great job with talent. I don't watch the show enough to comment on story structure and whether they're knocking it out of the park or not. But obviously they're doing some things correctly.

And there's a vision, appears to be a vision there. They've got to take it to an arena. they've got to make that commitment and that's the hard part easy for me here to sit here and say it but now you're talking about travel production on the road venues it's a big big commitment but if anybody in that company hopes to get that next big tv deal slide into wbd if AEW goes away that's a possibility anything's a possibility but the only way you're going to get there is to have credibility as a product, not credibility on the fucking internet

or with Dave Meltzer, I'm talking about credibility with the 2.8 or 9 million people that watch wrestling on a weekly basis for WWE. That's the audience. That's the market. And if you want a piece of that market,

you're going to have to take a chance. But if you're producing your show and tied up a small soundstage because of the economies of scale, which I understand, I did it. And I understand why. It doesn't make you a bad person. But if you're forced into that environment,

no matter how good the wrestling is inside of the ring, no matter what stars you bring in, you're very, very limited in terms of what you're going to do. Well, they just had their biggest audience in like 10 plus years for an event. So you got to start somewhere, right? And that's how you do. But I'm excited about it right now.

I mean, I'm interested enough to tune in. And I think bringing in, I don't keep calling him, Dolf Ziegler until the day I die or he does. Nick, I mean, he's such a great talent. And I love the way they brought him in. It was just done well, A.J. Francis over there, I mean, they're making moves. They just had Okada and Will Osprey come through, too. There you go.

Let's see what happens. Well, something, something. Good stuff here, Eric, this week. We hit on Smorgasborder stuff, but it was a lot of fun. We want everyone on board with us. here at Strictly Business, get your business, get your product down front of thousands of listeners every single week here on the business of the business. Advertise witheric.com is the place to do that. This is one of the largest podcast feeds in the world for professional

wrestling, and we want your product out in front of it. That is advertised with Eric.com. We're going to play it by year for next week, Eric, because I know you got a lot of travel. I'm going to be down there in Tampa as well, but it's going to be a lot of fun. I know the Royal Rumble is always one of my favorite events. I'm sure it's one of your favorite events, too. absolutely and it's always going to be a great time there anything else you want to throw out no i'm having a blast on my carnivore diet i'm so excited about this diet i'm never going to go back to eating any other way this has been perfect for me i want to thank everybody over at riverbent ranch they're not sponsored me i don't get anything for free i just love that product so much

go to get riverbend dot com aged no hormones no antibiotics ever grass fed processed in their own facility. It's not mystery meat folks. You know who grew your your beef. You know who processed your beef. You know what your beef ate. You know that it's been aged and then it's delivered to your door. It's as good as you're going. It's as close as you're going to get to growing at yourself. As close as you're going to get to be in a cattle rancher, like John Dutton. You know what I mean? And when you know where your meat is coming from and it's the highest quality meat available and you can get it delivered to your door for less than you typically pay for any of the other or nationally recognized brands. Go to getriverbem.com and take a look

at the pricing yourself. It's all right there. You'd be glad you did. You can thank me later. This has been strictly business. We'll see you next time.