83 Weeks with Eric Bischoff - Strictly Business with Eric Bischoff #68: WWE & TKO Earnings, Sting's Last Match, and More

Episode Date: March 1, 2024

In this edition of Strictly Business, Eric Bischoff and Jon Alba run down some of the highlights from the TKO year-end earnings call, and look at notes from a couple of WWE's recent business lawsuits. Plus, an interview with the Orlando Sentinel's Jay Reddick about Sting's impact on the Carolinas. FOLLOW ALL OF OUR SOCIAL MEDIA at https://83weekslinks.com/ Stop throwing your money on rent! Get into a house with NO MONEY DOWN and roughly the same monthly payment at SaveWithConrad.com On AdFreeShows.com, you get early, ad-free access to more than a dozen of your favorite wrestling podcasts, starting at just $9! And now, you can enjoy the first week...completely FREE! Sign up for a free trial - and get a taste of what Ad Free Shows is all about. Start your free trial today at AdFreeShows.com If your business targets 25-54 year old men, there's no better place to advertise than right here with us on Strictly Business. You've heard us do ads for some of the same companies for years...why? Because it works! And with our super targeted audience, there's very little waste. Go to AdvertiseWithEric.com now and find out more about advertising with Strictly Business. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

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That's right, it's saved withconrad.com. NMLS number 32416, equal housing lender. SavewithConrad.com. How's it going, everyone, it's time for another edition of Strictly Business with Eric Bischoff, presented to you by the ad-free shows and podcast-seat networks. I'm John Alba, and we have a loaded edition of the business of the business here on this particular episode. we're going to be talking about Sting's last match at AW Revolution. We're going to be talking about the TKO Holdings call and some of the fallout of that and a whole lot more,

but I'm not doing that alone. Of course, I'm joined by the one and only Mr. Eric Pischoff, EasyE. How's the hair coming in, pal? Slow. Now, it's coming in. But see, here's the deal, John, I got an overhead light here. By the way, I'm going to redo my studio here over the next couple of weeks. It's going to look completely different. But in the meantime, I look like I'm in a treehouse.

and I got an overhead light here. And when it bounces off this, you know, silver hair, I look like a fucking hubcap. So that's why that's why you got to get on the makeup flow, bro. That's why we wear makeup and TV. Whenever you get the light reflecting, it's supposed to absorb it and take it in. Well, it doesn't reflect off anything but my head.

When I change my lighting up in here, I'll be able to, I'll be able to fix all that. And then the meantime, my hair eventually will grow back. and I'll be off and running. What will we got today, man? Let's dig into it.

No more chit-chat. I'm tired of chit-chat. I've had a lot of people asking about your opinions. We suffered a couple losses this week, unfortunately, in the wrestling world, Oli Anderson and Virgil, anything you'd like to add on either the two of them? No, I mean, look, Oli was Oli was Oli, and I have some great memories of Oli. I have some memories that I try to put out of my mind when it comes to Oli. But I enjoyed them.

You know, as much of an onery, contankerous, negative some bits as he was, he was kind of fun to be around. And he had a good sense of humor if he was comfortable around you. And he had a lot of knowledge. Unfortunately, Olli, like guys of his era, Bill Watts, Vern Gagne, you know, he was so, he was so firmly entrenched in the way business was done back in the 70s. in the 80s that he refused to consider doing things differently. And as the business evolved,

just like it is today, it was evolving back in the late 80s and early 90s and mid 90s and only just, he was a square peg in a round hole, but he was a lovable square peg in that round hole. If you had a decent relationship with me, he had a great sense of humor. And one of the, one of the more outspoken characters his era that's for sure um virgil you know i was going to post something yesterday and you know

there's only so much you can convey into social media post and look i didn't get to know like real well on a personal basis so i can't speak to who he really was away from the business but i can tell you what my relationship with with him was in the business and And I saw, the last time I saw Mike was probably, I was in Albany, New York at a signing or something. And, and, and Mike was there. And he came running up to me. He was so excited. And I, you know, I didn't know why.

Like I said, it's not like we were real close friends. And I had seen, you know, like around at different conventions and signing. So it wasn't unusual. It wasn't like the first time he ever saw me. But he came running up to me and he had something in his hand. And he said, I just want to give you this. I just want to give you this. And I took it, and it was a picture of he and I,

and I could tell it had been cropped out of another picture. So he just cropped out the part that was he and I. And he signed it to me. Thanks for everything or whatever it was. And he was so excited to give that to me. He gave it to me, and I thanked him for it. You know, we shook hands and off he went. And that is my memory of Mike, not only that day,

But whenever I saw like backstage, he was always happy. He was always smiling. He was one of those guys that looked like he had fun and he was enjoying himself the minute he walked through the door until the last time I saw him in Albany. He just enjoyed it. And people could say what they want to say about his career. And certainly he was quite the character in the last, you know, five or ten years. Certainly, but I found him to be entertaining as hell

in a positive, fun, loving guy who enjoyed life. And that's how I choose to remember. That's how I do remember him, and that's the memory that I'll hold on to. I think there was a lot of endearing factors about Virgil in particular that really resonated with a lot of fans. Like, I know it became somewhat of a meme

to see him at the conventions and with the small lines, but he endeared himself to it. And I think, especially, man, think about how many people can say this he was legitimately part of two of the hotter angles in an eight year period of time in the history of wrestling like take say what you want to say the million dollar man virgil stuff was hot and people were super into that and then to be part of the nw o angle years later in a totally different role man that's a credit to the performer because you don't get in those positions for no reason right look

Mike was a great character. He loved the business. You know, he had, and I was thinking about this again yesterday, you know, and it wasn't just my opinion of Mike in terms of him being just a fun, positive guy to be around. Mike had a lot of respect backstage, not because he was the greatest wrestler in the world, not because he had the strongest promo in the world, but because he enjoyed what he did.

And it's interesting to you point out, you know, what Mike's character ended up being was kind of a meme of himself because he'd go to these conventions and, you know, maybe four or five people in line waiting to see him or sometimes less. He still had fun doing it. And I think Mike's love for the business and the people in it, which I think was a big part of it, is why Mike enjoyed so much respect in the locker room. So that's it. I would have to say. I would agree with that. Good, good words from you there, Eric. We got a lot of to get into, so let's get into it on the business of the business. We had the TKO year-end earnings call for Q4 and got some projections as well for what we can expect from this year. We got

some comments about Vince McMahon status with TKO and some numbers that came from it. I know we don't like to get too bogged down in a lot of corporate speak here, but there were some interesting notes that came from this call. UFC and WWE, Eric, I think when this partnership was made. There is almost this inherent curiosity as to who is the more successful brand of the two? Because now they're partnering together. And what we heard here is that UFC came in at a 142.9 million total revenue. WWE coming in at $141 million in $141 million in revenue. Both of the companies are Ferrari Emanuel off to a strong start following record financial performances in 2023 and he praised the synergy between the two companies. We've seen some crossovers so far,

Eric, between the two. We've seen UFC performers show up on WWE television. Michael Chandler did that. We've seen WWE stars show up at UFC shows. What do you think so far of that partnership and how that's working out? I think the crossover is just ancillary. I don't think it really matters much. It's functional. It doesn't hurt anything. I don't think it's going to have a dramatic effect them in business. I think people like to focus on it because it's on TV and they can see it. I think the synergy that matters the most is the synergy that nobody ever sees until after it happens, which is sponsorship, arena relationships. Those are the types of synergies that actually matter. The cross-promotional stuff is, like I say, it's very ancillary.

It's, I guess, it's something that strategically you should do, but I don't think it's meaningful from a financial perspective, at least not at the same level as some of the other synergies that actually matter. Now, on top of this, Eric, we did hear about Vince's standing with TKO on where the company is. Now, they did confirm in this that Ari Emanuel, in addition to being CEO, is also executive chair of the company. Mark Shapiro was asked about Vince's status, and he did say that the company has, put significant distance, rather, between McMahon and TKO. McMahon, of course, still owns a little more than 20 million shares. That's about 25% of total outstanding Class A shares and about 12% of economic value and

voting power in the large TKO. So there is still voting power with Vince, but he did say that the company is completely on the sidelines as far as Vince McMahon is concerned. They have no idea on the timing of any of the logistical stuff with the lawsuit. they're not having any discussions with vince it seems like vince is no longer uh in much of the periphery at all of tk o but with those voting shares and and some power there is that something that could linger what kind of insight can you provide for us on that front not much because i'm i'm not an expert in corporate governance and and particularly with public companies and what that 12

percent could mean, but I think just if you take a very common sense approach to it, you know, in and of itself, that 12 percent probably doesn't mean much. But in combination with other voting shares who may vote along the same lines as is what Vince may want to vote on, then it could become meaningful if it's a close vote, I guess. But beyond that, I think TKO has done a great job. They've had to, given the litigation and everything that's at risk, of dishing itself from Vince McMahon and other than that 12% voting stock, which could potentially in a very unique situation matter.

I think at the end of the day, Vince will eventually cash out or his family will inherit his share. or however they're distributed upon death, assuming he doesn't cash them in before death, I don't think that Vince's relationship with TKO vis-a-vis, his 12% is really going to matter. Technically it could, but practically, I don't think it'll ever matter. And they did say that they don't have an update on what Vince plans to do with those shares,

whether he decides to maintain them or whatever it may be. They were not able to provide insight at the time of, the call. They did make note, though, that WWE was able to post a year revenue of $1.3 billion, which was up 3% from 2022. And UFC was posting, I mean, huge climb for them, 13% revenue to $1.3 billion. So essentially, both companies, Eric, valued around the same. The biggest thing that they were really pressed on in terms of content, which I found very fast. fascinating was we know there's going to be a gap in when WWE's deal with NBC Universal for Monday Night Raw comes, and when the Netflix deal starts in January, the Raw deal ends at the

end of Q3, beginning of Q4. So there's going to be a multi-month period there where Raw's platform is yet to be determined. And Shapiro said that they feel, quote, pretty positive that raw will be available for consumption. Have you put any thought into that on where we might see Raw end up? Because we know SmackDown is immediately moving to NBC Universal. I've been trying to rack my brain at what some of the options could be. And if WWE chooses to go OTT in their own way on peacock or whatever it may be, has that thought crossed your mind at all?

No, I don't have a guess. You know, I don't know the market well enough to know where the opportunities may lie. I can't see anybody another platform agreeing to take raw for three months or four months or whatever it is. I don't see that. So I honestly, I don't know. I don't have an opinion. I'm curious, just like everybody else. Like, how do you take it direct to consumer for just a few months?

It seems very strange that they find themselves in the situation without having some sort of plan. So maybe there is a plan and we just. Or maybe they just, maybe it goes. dark. Maybe the advantage of that period of time to kind of build anticipation, to promote it heavily, to create awareness and get everybody prepped for the big move. There's nothing wrong with that strategy. I don't know financially if that makes any sense. But if they don't have a great outlet, if they don't have a solution as to where that show is going to live for that period of time during that transition, then I don't know that I would be afraid of,

you know, a couple months off to, again, retool, reshape, create, promote, and more than anything, build anticipation, treat it like it's WrestleMania and build up to it so that when it does debut, premiere, whatever the right word is, on Netflix, there's a built-in anticipation for it like a major event. There's nothing wrong with that. It's risky, cost money, but it may be a better option than, you know, buying time on another off network. Let me throw the other option. Just buy the time. You can do that. That's a really interesting idea that you propose there, almost like a soft reboot of raw to start the year on Netflix. But let me propose this to you. What about the idea of

taking raw and for a few months putting it on a social media platform to stream like twitter like twigs like facebook whatever maybe we know wwe used to have the mix match challenge show stream exclusively on facebook uh they have the wwe speed show that's going to be streaming on x so what if you for three four months i can't imagine one of those companies wouldn't be willing to at least entertain that idea certainly certainly x would as I like to call it, and WWE, as you just pointed out, just kind of put their toe in the water. To me, it makes the most sense if you look at some of the other big brands

that have, and personalities, that have come out and started streaming on Twix or X, hugely successful. I'm a big supporter of Elon Musk. I think that the platform has grown. It's getting better. It's becoming more successful. I think it's the future in many respects. of social media, and I think, I think that would be a good solution.

I'm not sure that it would be a better solution than going dark and building anticipation, but it's certainly a solution. You're going to get eyeballs. I mean, Tucker Carlson proved that, didn't he? And he went from being the number one host across the board outperforming every major news network, every other cable outlet, obviously, was one of the most. successful talking heads on on on in the news category and he would maybe get two three million two and a half million viewers per per episode he's over on twix and he's some of his

episodes have gotten 30 and 40 million viewers so you're going to get more eyeballs i don't know from a monetization point of view than it makes any sense i think if it was me by myself and i had to make that decision without the benefit of any data to enact to to analyze i'd just take it dark and i put all my effort and energy and building promotion for that reboot that's what i would do well what do i know i have a big bang style event one one of the things too eric about it if you did social media is unlike having it on television or streaming there's a chance for real-time engagement in the show you could pull up real-time ex-posts or facebook comments wherever you choose to stream and integrate that into the show if you wanted to.

You could. It would be a very different presentation, even if it was just for a short period of time. So I'm fascinated by where things could stand with that. We're going to talk a little more WWE stuff after our interview with Jay Reddick here, because we're going to talk about Sting. Then there's a couple of WWE lawsuit information and news tidbits that we got this week, too, that we're going to hit on. But Eric, we are building in the final days here towards Sting's last match.

He's going to be the headlining match at AW Revolution. I know you're going to talk a little bit about it in the interview, but seeing Sting come down from the rafters, man. How'd that make you feel? That was awesome. It was very, very well done. I was excited to see it. It was a classy, entertaining kind of tip of the hat to what I think was the peak

of the of sting's career as as the crow uh his second big successful incarnation as a character for surfer sting and then the crow sting and i think that what we saw last night i think it was executed very well i think it's satisfied everybody that wanted to watch it and it uh it was very very well done there was also an allusion to his final wcw nitro promo where they had the bats hanging from the ceiling uh it was really well done i'm with you on that and they're going to be in this tornado tag match that is going to headline this show at w revolution now eric i want to let you get your plug and you and conrad are going to be live before and after revolution is that correct yeah live on the 83 weeks of youtube channel we're going to approach this the same way we did

the big wwee press conference with rock and cody roads we're going to do a pregame show uh or pre-event show if you will and we're going to watch along we'll jump in whenever it's appropriate if there's anything interesting to talk about otherwise we're going to just enjoy it like everybody else is enjoying it and we're going to do a post show all of this on 83 weeks on youtube i would suggest strongly if you haven't done so already go to 83 weeks on youtube.com we'll throw some graphics up but maybe at the end of the show i'll certainly be promoting it on social media but 83 weeks on youtube.com subscribe and also click the bell ding ding ding because you want to be notified when this thing starts we're going to be doing a lot more on youtube in the weeks and

months to come we have some big announcements coming your way very very shortly and uh i encourage you to check it out we had a tremendous turnout when we covered the press conference and uh hope to do it again well eric i can't believe that sting's last match is finally upon us going down in greensboro so to break things down give us a little more context because context is king here on strictly business in 83 weeks. We're bringing in Jay Reddick. He is a combat sports reporter from the Orlando Sentinel, and he's got quite the history in the Greensboro area himself. Jay, first off, thanks for Oppen on Strictly Business. We really appreciate it. We had heard that this event was originally going to be going down in the Midwest, but things were changed when it was indicated

it would be Sting's last match. Why is Greensboro the perfect fit for something like this? Well, I feel like Greensboro was NWA and WCW's home base when Sting first came into the company. So for that reason, I feel like it makes a lot of sense. You know, Sting's first sort of breakout performance with Rick Flair, 45-minute draw at the first clash of champions. That was at the Greensboro Coliseum. So I think there's a lot of, there's a lot of memories there and a lot of other memories that are tied to Greensboro and tied to the Carolinas. this right now standing place to be a w's biggest arena show in some time according to wrestle tics that does a great job tracking tickets a w has distributed 16,000 and 84 tickets for the greensboro

coliseum and the revolution show why is the market so interested in an event like this I could be wrong, but I always get the sense that the North Carolina wrestling fan is very loyal. I think that when you give a, especially for old school NWA, WCW, CW, type of stuff, you know, when you give them something good to come back to, I think that it'll draw. I know that W.W.E. tried a Starcade were two in the area, and I believe those drew well, you know, and it was based on nostalgia and just sort of getting the chance to go back and see the guys that you remember from the 80s and early 90s. Eric, let me ask you this. He just brought up a really interesting point about nostalgia selling. And I feel like an event like this is kind of built around nostalgia, right? We just saw it. First of all, AJ, this is my first chance to jump in here. Thanks for joining us, brother. Appreciate it. Thanks. No, but we just saw, you know, Dynamite had the big ending with Sting coming down from the rafters. In your opinion, Eric, how do you successfully tap into nostalgia in 2024? Is there a balance to be struck? Like, how would you assess this event is doing so? Well, I think AEW did a great job last night with the setup with Sting and coming down out of the rafters ending up on a ramp behind the bucks and all that.

I mean, that was pure. It was such a nod to Sting probably 1997, 98, really the height of the crow character. And I think that was a really tasteful, entertaining, fun way, particularly in the context of Sting's last. mass last night was supposed to be his last dynamite or was his last dynamite. So I think that was such a, a classy and entertaining kind of tip of the hat to what was in many respects. It's arguable. It's all subjective. But really the peak of Sting's success, I think, was that era, which is why we're still seeing his character today, which is why we saw what we saw last night, which is, you know, an homage to Sting and Nitro and all that. And again, it was very well done. It was very entertaining.

But there is, you do have to have a balance. You know, you want to satisfy that nostalgic itch, but you don't want to scratch it so hard you draw blood. And I think scratching it too hard would be an overabundance of it. It's too, you know, if you looked at a card or you looked at, you just looked at a show, forget about the card necessarily, but you just look at what's on that show, I think, a nod to nostalgia, in this case, you know, focusing on it because it is leading to a big event,

you know, 25, 20, 25% of your show, if it's a tasteful, entertaining, classy way to tip the hat to years going by, I think that's awesome. And that also satisfies the younger and newer audience because they have a relationship, you know, to the history as well, to the legacy of performers like Sting and Rick Flair and others from that era. So, yeah, you got to be careful. You don't overdo it. It's just like anything else, man. So, Jay, as someone who's attended so many wrestling events in that area,

why is it that Sting resonates with the Carolina wrestling fan so much? I think, honestly, to start with, Greensboro was very much a horseman town. all the stuff about flair country and horseman country is very very true and i think that sting was a of you know great opponent for the horseman and i think he earned the respect of the greensborough wrestling fan really quickly in terms of the the smarter fan and i think that his his presentation got over with the with the younger sat and jay that was before my time i hadn't come to wcd at that point In fact, I didn't think I even knew much about WCW, if anything at all, because we didn't get TBS where I live. So I didn't really learn much about WCW until I went to work there.

But what was Singh's character? I mean, did he come out as Surfer Sting or was it an early version of the Surfer Sting character? What do you remember? What I can remember from now is that by the time he got to WCW, I feel like the Surfer Sting character, was pretty well, pretty well established. I don't remember a whole lot of adjustments once he, once he jumped into the, to the promotion. Now, the draw is what intrigues me most,

because we always hear these legendary Carolina wrestling shows and, you know, what made them so special, and Sting being able to kind of embed himself and endear himself within that market here. How critical would you say Sting was as a draw from your person? perspective, Jay, as the spectator at the time in really helping light that scene on fire. I think it sort of sort of goes back to what I was saying. The horsemen were a very big draw in terms of life in Greensboro and in the Carolinas. And Sting was just the ultimate protagonist to go against them. And I think that in that way, that was how he grew as a draw.

So let me ask you, I want me jump in, John. No, please. Greensboro, the Carolina's horseman country. Sting emerges as a protagonist, a baby face for those Dave Meltzer, dirt sheet writers, a good guy. Are you suggesting then that the wrestling fans in the Carolinas love the heels, like where the heels over? If they're horsemen country in their heels, it's kind of like people looking at the NWO as heels, but getting cheered. Was that kind of the same thing? I feel like, and I was not probably old enough to know a ton of markets at this time, because I was in high school when Sting first emerged.

But there was a group, and there were a lot of the most vocal fans. in Greensboro loved the heels. And so I think that that, you know, didn't, you know, didn't make it a heel town necessarily, but it certainly gave a, you know, gave a certain shine to the heels and end of the horsemen as the, you know, as sort of the cool heels of the time. And Sting came in as, as like you say, the ultimate protagonist to go against them and earn the response. What was the reaction? Is Sting's coming in as the baby face or the protagonist and but that at least that segment of the audience were really horseman fans and heel fans how did they react to sting is it like what the fuck are you doing here we can't I can't wait to

see everybody kick your ass or did it shift that portion of the audience a little bit did they did they gradually or immediately kind of change over become sting fans as opposed to horseman fans what was it do you remember i mean i know a little a little bit there were um there were a bunch of signed guys in the front row and when sting first started out they you know they would they would have signs against them they would signs that said stink they there were all kinds of uh sting sucks mm-hmm go back to california right and your surfboard and go home But I never felt like that, that hatred was real. I always felt like, you know, Sting sort of very quickly earned the respect enough to where it's like, okay, we'll have fun with him as a baby face, but we don't really hate him.

That must. And what was, I mean, Rick Flair, especially, was Rick Flair, even though he's part of the horseman, the horseman were heels? Okay, we've covered that. But did Rick Flair have, did it, could. my biggest challenge with Rick and working with him professionally is he loved being a heel but he nobody really wanted to hate him because he's Rick Flair you really just want to go out and have a cocktail with him right hang up maybe go out for steak you don't really want to do a guy like that was was Rick Flair a hated heel or is he kind of a beloved heel do you

remember he exactly what you said he was he was a beloved heel I think in in in Greensboro at least in my in my day he always was now Jay Let me ask you this because you've been, I've seen a ton of AW and WWE events over the course of the past couple years. And I really would love some context on the type of draw that AW is in that South Atlantic, Southeast region where you're based. It's not a region that AW has visited a ton in recent years. They kind of started there, obviously, the Jacksonville shows, and they did a couple of Orlando shows and a couple stuff in the Carolinas. but they really haven't gone back to that market a ton. What's your general assessment on what the appetite is for AW programming

and why they're having this pay-per-view there aside from Sting? I think you're right about that, and I feel like Florida is a different animal, and Jacksonville and Orlando is a different animal than the Carolinas and the South in general to me. But I know that AEW had a collision there last fall, I believe it was, and that drew well. That was the first time in the market. I don't know what I don't know what AEW would look like doing repeat business in the area. I know they're doing the Atlanta area for a dynamite taping next Wednesday. I'll be curious to see how that draws. But I think that Sting is drawing this house. I think that is that is that's clear. Mm-hmm. And probably is drawing most of this house. I don't know what revolution looks like as a draw in Greensboro without him. Is there an appetite from that fan base for the product as far as you see it?

Like, what kind of insight can you provide on that? Because you just gave us all this background on the type of Carolina wrestling fan and what they enjoyed 20, 30 years ago. has that translated successfully in AW's product to be able to return to that region and produce major pay-per-view shows? I think it could. I think, you know, I don't want to pigeonhole the area as just a nostalgia group. You know, WWF and WWE drew a lot of sellout and near sellout crowds to Greensboro in the surrounding area. So I don't know, based on what I saw at Collision, I think that that the AEW brand and its wrestlers are going to draw in the Carolina's probably no matter what, at least for bigger shows. Sure.

And you've got to keep in mind, too, there are several names that are Carolina Associated that will be on this show, too, even though he's not advertised for Matt. You know, Adam Copeland's going to be there. You know, FTR's there. They're on the show. So I'd imagine that that helps as well. Eric, what was your approach to marketing towards the Carolinas and North Carolina? Did you ever tap into that nostalgia with your general booking approach to those shows?

Oh, we were nostalgic. We were still nostalgic. No, it was no particular. And by the way, while you guys were talking, I was looking at some of the ticket sales in that market. Obviously, Greensboro is doing well. But let's face it, we've got to be honest here. We don't have to be negative, but we have to be honest. AEW couldn't sell out Huntsville, Alabama, with Sting's final match on Dynamite.

Hours before the show, there were still tickets for sale for a 3,000 seat venue. I think if you look at the southeast or anywhere AEW is going right now, ticket sales are not strong anywhere, with the exception of Greensboro and some unique kind of one-off type events, big events. In terms of what WCW did differently, you have to remember, WCW is sort of, you know, WCW originally was a part of the, the Crockett promotional infrastructure. So many people that were originally part of Jim Crockett promotions, once Ted bought them out of bankruptcy, brought them over,

created WCW. A lot of the same people that were part of the Crockett Promotons infrastructure came over, including David Crockett, Jackie Crockett, Gary Jester. A lot of the people that were familiar with were working directly with. Elliot Murdoch, for example, was a local promoter. So many of them came over. So just about everything that they had been doing in that market, the relationships they had with the buildings, the venues, the building managers, the people that made the decisions. They were a very close-knit kind of community.

And WCW kind of continued doing business as they always had shortly after WCW was created, meaning that WCW didn't treat that market any differently at all. They just kind of continued what they had been doing. Once I came on board and started to have influence and eventually control over live events, that market had been burned to the ground. When I got to WCW in 1991, we would go to events for my Anderson, South Carolina, my very first television taping. I don't think there were 800 people in the audience. That's where that market was with WCW.

when I got there. Once I had control over WCW, I didn't treat the market any differently until it became apparent that promoting live events, especially non-televised live events, was a complete waste of money in time. We were losing money every time we went out the door. I've said that repeatedly. It's a fact. It wasn't until really 95, 96 that we became a little more popular. And even then, I was reluctant to go to those markets in the Southeast where traditionally we had been so often because we just, we overused them. We came to those markets so often. It's like, oh, WCW's back in town. Oh, weren't they just here last month?

Yeah. Did you have fun? Yeah, it was all right. And let's go do something else. That was kind of the prevailing perception of the brand, if you will. It wasn't really until 95, 96 that that began to change. And we became pretty judicious about where we. we promoted, especially our bigger vans, our televised events.

Then it started the change, but with respect to how much additional kind of nostalgia that we brought to the table when we went to those markets, it was never a consideration. We didn't do anything any differently. We were just more selective about where we went and how often. Well, Jay, before we let you go, I want to ask you about Rick Flair real quick here, involved in a pretty big angle there on dynamite. They kind of disappeared for a few weeks, and they teased him last week, came back, turned on the Young Bucks after he kind of looked like he was going to align with them.

How much do you think Rick has played into any of the draw here? Do you think people are buying tickets in that area for Rick Flair being part of this final match presentation? I mostly doubt it. I think that maybe this is just a personal thing. I feel like Rick's last couple of appearances have not done a lot. to move the needle for ticket sales for Greensboro. I'm sure that, you know, people coming to see Rick is quite a draw, but I think Sting is definitely the thanks for the house guy here.

I agree with you, J, 100%. Those tickets, everybody that, in my opinion, doesn't matter what my opinion is. I'm just going to share it anyway. So, fuck it. Those tickets sold because everybody knew it was Sting's last match. This is our last opportunity to see this icon who has been so much a part of our wrestling life, in some case for two, in some cases for multiple generations, right? It's your last chance

to see them. It's like going to see the Rolling Stones in concert. It's the last time they're going to be in concert. So you're going to have a lot of people who typically don't watch wrestling anyway, whether it be WWE or AEW. But when the word gets out that Sting is coming to town, this is his last match, you're going to get a turnout. I agree with you. I think Rick Flair is, and I don't mean this disrespectfully because I have a lot of respect for Rick Flair in terms of what he's done in in wrestling he's garnish on the plate it's just that little sauce that on the side with respect to uh to virgil little meat sauce on the side that's what rick presents but i don't think storyline wise anybody's boy i heard rick's going to be there i'm going

to get a ticket i don't think anybody who is on the fence is going to buy a ticket because rick flair's involved but i think rick flair's involvement just puts a little like i said a little sauce on the side to make the whole thing just a little bit more enjoyable i was more curious even just from the local market perspective because you know you were talking jay at the beginning of this just about how you know much of a draw the horsemen were and rick was in particular and if that affected the local draw i'm really curious to see what the local draw is like all right i got to put you on the spot here as we wrap up jay who's going over is it derby and sting or is it the young bucks i think it's derby and sting as much as sting doesn't want that to happen oh my god i can't

imagine it being any other way come on now i just we got it he's the comment is that a serious question you got to get you got to get you got to get your picks him bro eric you're doing an entire prediction show ahead of this so we got to uh we got to get jes i'm not doing any predictions look i'm wearing a hat because every time i predict something like this or i make a bet i'm wrong no i'm done making bets i'll you know i'll predict business because i'm comfortable with the business side of this but in terms of wrestling especially in a e w i'm not predicting any anything. Jay, where can people find you, man? My stuff is always at Orlando sentinel.com. Just do a search for pro wrestling and I'll be around. And you can find me on Twitter at Run and Jay. Are you in and I

and Jay? Fantastic. Jay, really appreciate your time, man. Thanks for hopping on with us. Absolutely. Jay, thank you very much and have a great time. Have a great time. Thanks, Eric. Appreciate it. 2024 is in full swing and that means it's time for a New Year's resolution check-in with our friends over at Manscaped. Newsflash, it's never too late to level up your grooming game and keep your bush tamed. Manscape's new lawnmower 5.0 Ultra is every man's cheat code to look good, feel good,

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Get 20% off and free shipping with the code wrestle biz at Manscape.com. Embrace a new you and definitely embrace a new trimmer courtesy of Manscaped. Thanks again to Jay for hopping on Strictly Business with us. Really excited for this pay-per-view, The Revolution Show, especially just for Sting. I mean, it really feels like a big deal. And I love when things in wrestling feel like a big deal.

You've known Sting for decades, Eric. I know you have a lot of admiration for him as a performer, as a person. Is there anything else you want to say about him? before we move on through him. Nothing I haven't said before, you know, I'm just happy for him. You know, anytime a professional athlete, a performer of any kind, whether it be a musician, a boxer, a ballerina, it doesn't matter. When you can end your career under your own terms, the way you want it to end,

I think that is a blessing. I'm sure Steve Gordon, who plays the character staying, feels the same way, and I'm just happy as hell for him. I am as well, and it should be a great match. I've got high hopes for it and should be a great audience, the Greensboro Coliseum, legendary wrestling venue, should be a fun show. Okay, Eric, let's get back to some WWE talk here.

A few legal tidbits that we got this week. The first one came from the earnings call, and we heard that there was a $20 million, basically chunk of change here that was exchanged in an ancillary cost, which boiled down. to this lawsuit settlement between MLW and WWE. Now, if you may recall, in January of 2022, MLW had filed a lawsuit accusing WW of pressuring third parties to abandon contracts and relationships with them. And the lawsuit centered around potential deals with Vice and the streaming

service to be that MLW claimed WWE interfered with and tried to interfere with. They reached a settlement back in December, and through the public holdings report, we were able to find out that it was a $20 million settlement that WWE agreed to in order to put this thing to bed. Kurt Bauer, of course, former WWCreative member runs MLW. What's your reaction to this? I was surprised, probably like everybody else. That's a massive settlement. I just don't really have much of an impression.

You know, I don't know anything about it. That's a hard part, you know, to, I was surprised, to be very honest with you. And here's, I don't know court. I don't, you may have had a conversation or two somewhere along the line. I don't think we've ever met in person. But I hope, for court's sake, that he takes whatever is left over out of that 20 million, because I'm sure he's got some costs in there. if his attorney took it on a contingency, at least 30% of that or 33% of that is going to come off the top.

I don't know how the IRS treats a settlement like that. I know that settlements in cases of personal injury are not taxable, but in this case, I don't know if that's considered income or not. But whatever's left over, whatever it is, invest it, retire, do not try to put it in the wrestling business. don't don't do that you court you've made more money in the wrestling industry than probably some of the top 5% of the the talents on the roster certainly more than you were ever going to make running MLW whether you got on 2B or not so take the money and run brother take the money and run

so you would not invest any of that in MLW and you will go down as one of the most financially successful promoters in the last 20 years. So you wouldn't invest any of that in MLW? No. Absolutely not. You know, how long it would take a quarter or anybody else to make $20 million, to have $20 million to invest running MLW? That'll never happen.

Not in three lifetimes. So just take the freaking money. Call it a day. For there to be a settlement of that, size, like you said, $20 million is not jump change. Maybe for WWE, it is. It's half a Saudi Arabia show, but still, generally speaking, $20 million

is not jump change. The notion of WWE being an antitrust property, where it's a monopoly, essentially, is the accusation here. What do you think about that? Because I've been racking my brain a lot

about this ever since this lawsuit was filed. And WWE in its own defense during the case, mentioned how successful AEW was in their own filings to try and prove that it wasn't. So I'm curious what you're reading. Let's just move on. I can't comment on stupidity. Let's just move.

I'm not suggesting anything, Eric. I'm just, legally, that is what they argued. It was an argument in defense. They were trying to persuade a jury and a judge. Right. Come on. I, I, I, yeah, A.W's huge. successful it's god i'm not calling them that watch the ascension of AEW and how they're going to fill

arenas and become the next thing in the west of that i'll be right there with you john watching the ascension of AEW because they said in wwe sent a lawsuit that it's hugely successful the point that i'm making was not about AEW the point that i was making about w being a monopoly i mean has that like when you look at monopolization of the industry is it a monopoly because one scheme of things most of the money in the industry flows through wwe but there are also so many promotions out there right now many of whom have quality media distribution i was just i was just curious on what your thoughts are on that look But WWE, in my experience, so this is just hands-on experience, in my experience when I was running WCW, there were markets that we just couldn't penetrate.

There were venues we could not get into. For example, Madison Square Garden had a relationship, contractual relationship where WWE that provided that MSG, Madison Square Garden, had to advise WWE should a competitive wrestling company like WCW offer. to do business with Madison Square Garden on a particular date and once notified, WWE had a particular time window, let's say 30 days for sake of discussion, where they could say, now we want to book that date. They would have first right or refusal, if you will, on any date that any other wrestling promotion would try to book inside of Madison Square Garden. Now, that worked for WWE for a long time because nobody challenged it.

Nobody could afford to challenge it. Vince McMahon was very, very aggressive when it came to lawsuits in a way he wanted to protect his business. Jerry McDivitt is legendary in terms of being the legal arm to execute Vince's vision of how to protect the company legally. And it worked. It was very successful. Was it legal? Yes. Was it ethical?

Yeah, you can debate that. But it worked. And I think that's one of the ways that WWE had been able to build. its business and protect its brand for so long by entering into agreements that limited, for example, if you were a licensing, if you were a, if you were, I'm going to pick Mattel, okay, it's probably the wrong one to pick, but I'm going to pick it anyway because it's the first one that comes to mind. If you're Mattel and WWE is going to enter into a license agreement with a Mattel type of company, there would be language in that contract that would

prevent Mattel or any other company that wanted to engage in said license. of licensing other wrestling product that worked for a long time now at some point and it was obviously MLW and Kurt Bauer challenged that and hung in there and found an attorney that was not only capable of challenging WWE from just from a legal perspective having the talent as a legal as an attorney but also had the infrastructure and support to do it in the time in the patience that's why Kurt got or court got 20 million bucks. But also keep in mind, this could be, and again, I'm not an attorney.

I'm not trying to sound smarter than I am. But when you look at certain lawsuits, this could have been a tort or tortious interference type of lawsuit, which provides punitive damages. So in other words, if I come to you, if I sue you for torturous interference, and first thing I have to do is show damages. Otherwise, what the fuck are we here?

for it. There's no damages. Nobody's got to complain. But if I can show you, for example, that according to my expert analysis or the support that I have, had this deal gone forward, I could have made $2 million over the course of three years or five years or whatever it may be. I'm picking numbers out of thin air. If the judge agrees with that, then the judge can multiply that because it's a tort claim. It's automatically punitive damages. a tort claim i believe there are attorneys out there that'll pick this apart and add support to it but it depends on the type of claim it is no but you're essentially saying they they felt they had to deal with vice or to be in that wwe based on the that that is considered tortious interference

right exactly exactly see that's what i was looking for i wasn't sitting here saying oh a w so successful yay yeah yeah but we keep going back to that claim and the reason i react to it is because so many numskull, so many idiots, so many frauds that are out there pretending to know what they're talking about, and I'm speaking specifically about Dave Meltzer, are always going back to points like that. Well, they must be successful because WWE said they were in a lawsuit, which is such garbage. It is so stupid that when I hear someone say it, I react to that automatically. I react to stupidity in a very stupid way.

So there you go. Well, we got one more lawsuit to talk about. And this actually, our friend Brandon Thurston is involved in this one. He's not being sued nor is WrestleMania, but it was brought upon by an inquiry from Resslenomics. WWE filed a lawsuit against Texas Attorney General Ken Paxton in an attempt to block the release of bidding information related to the 2023 Royal Rumble, which, if you recall, was held in San Antonio last year.

So Brandon filed a public information request last February looking for public records that were relating to the Royal Rumble, including information about ticket sales, any talks between the city, attendance, anything of that nature. And initially, the city of San Antonio objected to disclosing that information and Ken Paxton's office was all on board with that. but then in January of this year, it reversed its decision to require disclosure the information requested. So, WWE is arguing in this lawsuit that filed that the first ruling was correct and that its reversal should be overturned because they argue that if that information became public, WWE could lose negotiating leverage with trying to obtain bids from cities for future events. Now, Eric, they did talk about in the TKO Holdings call this week that WWE would eventually like to be in a situation where pretty much cities are bidding for every single premium live event

that they have. What are your thoughts on this? Because I do think this is actually something that could tangibly have an effect on how WWE does its business going forward in terms of that bid process. In what way? How do you see that? Well, because I think if the bids are made public, and it's required essentially that you have this precedent set that even on some of the biggest events like Royal Rumble, I think that does affect the negotiation leverage or lack of leverage that a company like WW could have in future negotiations with other cities. I wonder how. I wonder why. And I don't know. I mean, here's, I'll give you my first reaction and we'll dig into it a little bit. My first reaction is I was surprised. Number one, I was surprised that Paxton would make that

move? Why would you want to create a wedge, if you will, between TKO and a city like San Antonio, where you could be creating a situation where WWE says, well, then fuck it. We just won't do business in Texas. We just won't bring, we'll bring TV there. We'll do our normal course of business. We'll do houses there, but we're not going to bring our big events to Texas because our proprietary information is being made public there. That potentially has a negative downstream effect on Big Marte, Dallas, Houston, San Antonio, Austin. There are a lot of cities that could be potentially, you know, pay-per-view cities that if Texas is going to devolves what WWE or TCO considers to be proprietary information,

stone do business there. What's the advantage of making that information public? How does San Antonio benefit? How does Texas benefit? What are the risks? I just talked about the risks. So if the risks outweigh the benefits, what are we doing? I'm curious.

I don't know. WWE's own communications department in this lawsuit also says, even within WWE, these terms are discussed only by a select group of internal personnel on a need-to-know basis and the fully executed agreements are shared only with relevant personnel in WWE's financial department and saved on a drive that is accessible only by the legal department. So essentially... There you go. Well, it is clearly proprietary information in the eyes of those in WWE. And I just can't... Again, what is the advantage? Who wants to know and why?

And does exposing that information put me at risk with a company like TKL, future events? Oh, by the way, there's also UFC events. There's a lot of events that TKO could just find. We'll just find another place to do because there's a lot of markets. It's a very competitive market. A lot of people want TKO property, whether it's UFC or WWE. So if you're going to do business with them and you don't want to respect their proprietary information, I guess that's a choice.

I don't understand it, though. what do you think of WWE's desire to have pretty much their entire PLE business come via bids in terms of location? I very much believe, Eric, that that is a point they will get to eventually. And it seems like that's, again, one of those resonating factors of having someone like Nick Conn in that position. Well, it makes sense, doesn't it? If I know I'm going to bring an event to your neighborhood and your neighborhood is going to benefit tremendously from a financial perspective. I'm bringing a revenue to your market or I can bring my revenue to or that revenue to another market. So that gives me leverage. I have a product

that benefits your community. I want to participate in that. That's business. That's how business is conducted. I again, I'm repeating myself and I'm tired of it. why mess with it what is the benefit i don't get it but whatever i hope they do i hope wwe does get to i hope the product becomes so successful and so popular that wwe gets paid for all of their big events and aew if they could ever get to the point where they can draw a meaningful audience consistently and bring money to a market that's measurable and meaningful I would love to see AEW get to that point and WWE get to that point. And I'd love to see where they're both, you know, competing for the same market or that market is competing for them and they both benefit.

But you don't do that by exposing proprietary information of formulas and methodology. Silly. But hey, were there any bids ever put on WCW shows? No. I didn't think so. No, we had a, you know, look. No, we, WCW, we had attendance that was dismal, abysmal, horrible. Call it whatever you will.

We were drawing 1,500 people to a pay-per-view, and half of those were papered. Who's going to buy that back then? And, yeah, things turned around in 95, 96, 77, 98. but in order to get to a position where you've got cities and states wanting to invest in you and bring your property to their market because you've proven over an extended period of time that that event brings money into the market that takes time and WCW would never never got to that level we were successful we brought money into a market for some of our big events but certainly nothing like WWE does yeah probably not even a fraction of it

I go to the big WWE events now and I meet as many people from around the world as I do from the state that the events in. You know, WCW never got to that point. Well, and that's why I think it's a great way to look at, too, just how hot the wrestling industry is right now, WW specifically in terms of perception within business. Like I always hear Eric when people get into discourse of, oh, you know, wrestling isn't as hot as it was in the 90s because not 11 million people are watching on Monday nights. Well, when you look at the value of these shows and these big events to these local economies, to these media distributors, there's so much damn money in it all right now. And I think that is a credit more than anything to the perception and mediation of how wrestling and sports entertainment, WWE specifically, are perceived in the general realm. And it's only WWE is perceived that way. Professional wrestling as a whole is not.

Only WWE is in the conversation with major markets for this type of subsidy. The wrestling business as a whole is not perceived to be hot. Within the wrestling community, and on the Internet it is, because they point to all these different wrestling events that are taking play independent events and small, you know, whether it be Impact or AEW or New Japan Pro Wrestling or braw or brawing midgets or whatever it is, there's a lot of interest, you know, in small wrestling properties. But in the context of what we're talking about, it's WWE is hot at the wrestling business.

Yeah. Well, that's what I was saying. WW is just right now on fire. And hand into WrestleMania, man. I mean, it's just going to be a massive, massive event. And they keep dropping some bright crumbs as to what those night one and night two main events are looking to be. And I think what we were talking about last week is definitely where they are headed.

we will find out good stuff eric as always we encourage people to join us here on strictly business advertise with eric.com it's your place to do that get your business get your product out in front of thousands of listeners every single week on the strictly business and 83 weeks feed is advertised with eric dot com Eric is going to be live with conrad ahead of a w revolution and after a w revolution uh i i'm going to make a bold prediction eric ready for this you're are you going to shave your head? Are you going to shave your head if you're wrong? No, no, because you're not any kind of a man if you don't put it all on the line. I don't, I'm not in a position where I can't, where I can put my hair on the line. Oh, that because you got that sports, you got a TV gig. Yeah, but, but I will bet there's like probably a 67 to 70% chance that your post show will be off the air before AW's press conference even starts on Sunday nights. So my thought I don't know if we're covered.

I mean, I don't know. First of all, calling it a press conference is, is, should anybody that's, I think it's offensive. It's not a press conference. It's, it's a circle jerk. But whatever. I don't know that we're going to cover the circle jerk. We may. Depends what happens.

Maybe if someone lunges at sting in the locker room, we'll have to find out. Maybe that will, uh, get everyone. You don't know. thing takes a bat to some people in the locker room. I guess that that would register. But man, those things start so late, they go so late. But I'm excited for the event. I'm excited to see your show. And it'll be a lot of fun. Anything else you want to add, Eric? No, man, I'm good. This has been strictly business with Eric Bischoff. We'll see you next time.