83 Weeks with Eric Bischoff - Wise Choices with special guest Bully Ray

Episode Date: April 25, 2024

On this special edition of Wise Choices, Eric welcomes WWE Hall of Famer Bully Ray to the show. The guys discuss the state of professional wrestling, what AEW needs to change to be successful, the lifting of non competes and how it will effect professional wrestling and so much more. MANDO - Control Body Odor ANYWHERE with @shop.mando and get $5 off your Starter Pack (that’s over 40% off) with promo WRESTLEBIZ at https://shopmando.com/! #mandopod THE PERFECT JEAN - F*%k your khakis and get The Perfect Jean 15% off with the code WRESTLEBIZ15 at https://theperfectjean.nyc/WRESTLEBIZ15 #theperfectjeanpod MANSCAPED - April is National Testicular Cancer Awareness Month! We’ve partnered with @Manscaped to help spread the word 🔎🥜 Visit Manscaped.com/TCS to learn more about simple self-checks for cancer prevention & SHARE to help save a life. Get 20% OFF with code WRESTLEBIZ at Manscaped.com and make a donation to the @tcsociety at checkout. #shavetosave BLUECHEW - Try BlueChew FREE when you use our promo code 83WEEKS at checkout--just pay $5 shipping. That’s https://bluechew.com/, promo code 83WEEKS to receive your first month FREE SAVE WITH CONRAD - Stop throwing your money on rent! Get into a house with NO MONEY DOWN and roughly the same monthly payment at https://www.savewithconrad.com/ ADVERTISE WITH ERIC - If your business targets 25-54 year old men, there's no better place to advertise than right here with us on 83 Weeks. You've heard us do ads for some of the same companies for years...why? Because it works! And with our super targeted audience, there's very little waste. Go to https://www.podcastheat.com/advertise now and find out more about advertising with 83 Weeks. Join this channel to get access to perks: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCCqQc7Pa1u4plPXq-d1pHqQ/join BECOME A 83 WEEK MEMBER NOW: https://www.youtube.com/@83weeks/membership Get all of your 83 Weeks merchandise at https://boxofgimmicks.com/collections/83-weeks FOLLOW ALL OF OUR SOCIAL MEDIA at https://83weekslinks.com/ On AdFreeShows.com, you get early, ad-free access to more than a dozen of your favorite wrestling podcasts, starting at just $9! And now, you can enjoy the first week...completely FREE! Sign up for a free trial - and get a taste of what Ad Free Shows is all about. Start your free trial today at https://www.patreon.com/adfreeshows. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Hello, everybody. Eric Bischoff here for another edition of wise choices, a concept by none other than Tony Kahn. Thank you, Tony. Appreciate that very much. Joining me on this very special episode, a lot of people talking about this one, my man, Bully Ray, Bubba Ray,

call him whatever you want, as long as you call them one of the greatest tag teams, I don't know, in the last 50 years, let's call it that. Just ask him, he'll tell you. wow you just stole my thunder because i was going to tell you that i watched the video that you sent out promoting this episode of wise choices and i popped for the left-handed jab just ask him and he'll tell you that's so fun though and that's what's fun about this stuff is you know sometimes humor i've found not that i think i'm a funny guy but even when i try to be funny or treat something with levity

I love that word, nevety, just makes me want to dance. But when I try to, you know, make a little jab and have a little fun, it doesn't translate on social media. You know, if you don't see somebody's facial expressions and get the left-handed jab, it can feel like a right-handed jab or a right-cross. So I'm glad you saw the humor. I popped on. Yeah, just ask me, I'll tell you,

the greatest tag team that's ever existed on God's Green Earth, period. There you go. The road warrior is better than everybody else. Well, we haven't had a chance to talk much. You know, we get to stay in contact every once in a while and you're a lot like me, I think. And that, you know, text, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Get on the phone and, you know, jack my job for 20 minutes or an hour. That doesn't happen very often.

But I haven't really been in contact with you at all since WrestleMania 40, man. What did you think? You got you tell me before, before you say to anything else, how the hell did you end up as a special referee? it basically was as last minute as just about the undertaker was it wasn't like last minute last minute day of show it was just a couple of days beforehand where I got a call and they said hey we have an idea what do you think I mean special guest referee a surprise at WrestleMania 40 I'm busy at there I'm washing my hair you know Oh, what did you say, well, what's it going to do for me? What were you thinking about pay wise? No, of course not.

Eric, this was the most fun I've ever had at WrestleMania. Every single WrestleMania I had performed beforehand was extremely stressful. Right. You know, with the TLC matches, you know, the follow-up matches. even some of the lesser to an extent matches, the four corners matches. You know, me and Devon always put a lot of pressure on ourselves. We expected a certain level of performance from ourselves,

plus our opponents. But this time, this was so last minute and so carefree to just go out there as a referee. And you're a referee in a hardcore match. Are you still there? Oh, yeah. So you're a referee in a hardcore match. And there's no rules. So all I have to do is basically sit back, enjoy the chaos,

and every once in a while drop down to my knees for a two count, and then the three count. And one of the things I had the most fun with was interacting with the six gentlemen and the two ladies involved in the match and taking the stuff that has worked for me throughout my entire career, my hits, like the was-up headbutt and the get the tables. and I was able to lend my hits to them and they were able to use them and pull them off and I thought it made the match that much more fun. So when you can come together like that,

work together, have fun together. Obviously, the crowd had a great time. It really was, if that's the last time I ever got to walk down the ramp at WrestleMania, I'm good with that because I got to do it in Philadelphia, in the city where I started, where me and Devon started in front of 72,000 people and a very fun, stress-free match.

I'm very grateful to the WWE for the call. And yeah, you know what it's like to get a phone call from them and have an opportunity put in front of you where you're like, yeah, I got to go do this. Because it's true. And especially to be totally transparent, you've got busted open radio on serious. I'm doing my stuff here on YouTube.

I've got the podcast. And, you know, anytime you get that kind of exposure, you're already interested. But for that event in particular, and the way you described it, and that's like one of the best, it really is one of the best pay days you've ever had. Your banker might not agree, but you will. Yes. And if you watch my entrance, I cannot stop smiling. That is the most genuine smile you will ever see on my face in a wrestler ring because I was just,

I was able, it was as if I was able to see every single face out there, as if I was able to see 72,000 people, you know, looking back at me and, you know, putting up the 3D sign or, you know, being happy. It wasn't like that tunnel vision of a match and I got to be in there with, like I said, you know, the Bobby Lashes and Montez, DiAngelo and Carrying Cross and the, the authors of pain, Snoop Dog, at the end. I made sure I held Snoop Dog's hands up real high. This is the money shot right here, kid.

Get Snoop Dog over here, holding up one of them, WW championship. So from beginning to end, nothing but fun. That is so awesome. Good for you, brother. Thank you. You know, at this stage of our careers in our lives, really. I mean, you're still active.

You know, you used to get to ring whenever you're in the mood. Yeah. Obviously, I'm on the outside look again. I work from my tree house here in the middle of nowhere, Wyoming, and I love every minute of it. But when you get that opportunity to go in there and have that much fun, and I talk about it all the time with Conrad, you know, when we talk about, you know, the energy in a live crowd and how important the crowd is, there is something about that buzz when you, in your case, 72,000 people, you could almost feel the heartbeat in each and every one of them. There's so much energy, and I do believe that energy within us communicates. you can feel somebody's energy when you say oh i get a vibe from somebody good vibe bad vibe well

that's their energy that's the way they carry themselves the way they project and when you're in front of 72 000 people they're so jacked up having fun excited been waiting in some cases all year or maybe even a lifetime to be a part of something like russomania and you just get the stand in the middle of the ring or in your case for the moment you walked out and absorb that energy it's really like a drug. And he can't get it anywhere else. And unless you're a performer, unless you're a pro wrestler, a rock star, somebody who takes the stage, you can't describe what that feels like. Eric, when I got the call from the WWE, I think, to come back for the Royal Rumble in 2015. I was one of the surprises. It was me. It was DDP and it was the boogeyman. And that was in Philadelphia also. So here I am. I

hadn't been in the WWE in 10 years, and I'm the first surprise of the Royal Rumble. So the Miz was in the ring. Ron, Truth Killings was in the ring. They started, and I'm the very first countdown. Here comes the surprise right off the bat. Bubba Ray Dudley, back in Philadelphia, first time, 10 years.

Eric, when I walked out there in that arena, that wall of sound, now that's compressed sound. It's not 72,000 people, you feel it, but the sound goes up right in the in the arena the sound comes right at you and i'm getting goosebumps talking about it when that wall of sound hit me from the pop i blacked out i don't even remember what happened i know i kind of i go back and watch the video and i can see what how i reacted but i cannot remember what it was like because once i got hit with that wall of sound the adrenaline completely took over, saturated my brain, and I was out.

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That is so awesome. I've never experienced that, obviously, but I can imagine it. I've gotten close enough to that feeling, not as intense as you did in that scenario, for sure, and I was never a wrestler. So even when I got a reaction, it's not the same thing as the kind of reaction wrestlers get, right?

It's just not. but I've got enough of a taste of it that I'm pretty good at imagining what that felt like and it's another thing to be really grateful for it obviously you are yeah definitely it was it was a great experience I loved every minute of it what else did you like on the show yeah russimony um i really liked sammy zane and gunther i think sammy zane is one of the the best workers out there and i believe sammy zane does something in that ring that is a art form. We always talk about selling, you know, everybody has to sell, but there's also something called registering. And registering is an extremely lost art form. But then there's something right that comes right in the middle of the register and the cell, which I think is the most lost art form that there is in the middle of ring that Sammy Zane excels at. And that's the struggle. Sammy struggles. He struggles on his face.

He struggles in his body movements. He struggles to get up. He struggles to stay up. He's constantly struggling to continue, showing the will to win, fighting for the underdog. And when you can go out there and show me that struggle, I forget that what I'm watching is entertainment. And I find myself going, yes, Sammy, come on, get up. And then I'll catch myself and I'm like, holy shit, he got me. And if you can get me, you're pretty damn good.

So first of all, thank you for that. I want to spend a little bit of time talking about that because that's magic. What you just said is magic. And to me, it's the part of the art form that I appreciate the most. I don't want to talk about why and how. But describe to me the difference between registering and selling. Because I'll be honest. I'm not sure what you mean by that.

selling is I got hit in the face and ow it hurts oh my god my jaw might be broken oh i got to put it back into place this pain is excruciating it's registering in my brain that's selling registering is ripping your head back and acknowledging that the shot hit you gotcha and what it's like and a lot of times in wrestling these days and this is across the board you see guys and gals hockey fighting so much in a match or chop festing each other to death that they don't even register the contact. If I punch somebody in the jaw, I can dare and damn to you that your head will at least snap back and you will register the physicality that just happened to you. Before you sell, because the register happens split seconds before the cell begins.

It's like act one, act two, right? So the register. is the acknowledgment that you just got hit in the face. The cell is falling down and writhing in pain and showing me that that punch was, you know, it landed its mark and it hurt really bad. The struggle is what you do after the cell. It's the crawling to the ropes. It's keeping your face up so everybody can read the emotion. everybody can see what you're going through they can all live vicariously just through your face and how you grab that rope just to get to one knee and then how you grab that top rope just to get to the second knee go back and watch rocky two when rocky and apollo are crawling up the ropes rocky struggles you can seize rocky struggle you can feel apollo struggle the will to get back to

your feet. And then finally, Rocky's able to hook that top rope. He locks his knees as much as he can. And the bell rings. And Rocky wins. The art of the struggle completely taken for granted and pro wrestling. And very few truly understand how to convey it. Kurt Henning, I think, would have been a good example from my era. Kurt was so good. And he really learned a lot from Nick Bokwinkle, who also was phenomenal when it came to registering and selling, because selling isn't just, oh, my God, that hurt. I'm falling down. I can't get up.

You don't want to sell dead. You got to keep hope alive, you know, you want that audience. They don't want to see you just get your ass kick. They want to see you get your ass kick so you get up and get your revenge. That's, we can probably do four hours just on selling in the art form. But I think the distinction and the reason for a lot of debate. You know, call it tribalism, whatever the fuck you want. People are creating it.

So what the fuck? Just have fun with it. The difference is those who appreciate the storytelling, the physical narrative. Because what you're talking about is a physical narrative. If an author was writing a book and had to describe in words, the written word, what that scene looked like where bully got punched in the face and he registered. And then he started selling, a writer would detail that and paint that picture. using words. Wrestlers use their bodies from their head to their toe. And you're right. That's

what I prefer. And I think there's a segment of the audience that prefers. Really, I don't mean this derisively. I don't. I'm not taking a shot. But it looks more like gymnastics competition, Olympic gymnast floor exercise competition necessarily. It's incredibly athletic. And I do love it. I created the Cruiserweight Division because I wanted to see more of it. So I'm not knocking it. But that style of wrestling tends to be a catalyst for the loss of registering and selling, the true art of selling. So we agree on so much.

It's hard to believe. There is, do you remember a company from about 20 years ago in Japan called Hustle? Yeah, barely, yes. hustle was an ultra sports entertainment company but they had a slogan that I have always loved they didn't call it sports entertainment

they didn't call it pro wrestling or any of these these other terms they called it fighting opera my god does that describe an opera has passion go watch go watch any of the three tenors

okay go watch go watch an opera You might not understand a word that they're saying or singing about, but you can hear the passion in their voice through the story that they tell. And we always go back to storytelling. The greatest books tell a good story. The greatest movies tell a good story. The greatest songs tell a good story.

The devil went down at Georgia is one of the greatest stories of all time because it's the most classic story of all. Good and evil. Black hat, white hat. good guys and bad guys and it's such an easy story and we've gotten away from it I don't understand

somebody invented the wheel the wheel has been perfected the wheel will work until the day the earth blows up but others want to get away from the wheel I'm not I've never been one of those guys to say when you talk about like gymnastics style matches

I call them spot fest matches because that's exactly what they are you do a bunch of spots because you're working for the pop as opposed to the emotion. And as a wrestler, I can say that because that's exactly what the fuck it is. As a kid in ECW, I know what it was like to work for the pop until I learned from veterans or from Paul or from Terry Funk or once I went to the WWE, how it's not right to work for the pop.

Be comfortable in silence. The pop will come once you tell the story the right way because they're invested in the story. of the match, they will pop for the move. And not only are they popping for the move, but they're popping for you, giving the move. Ten people can do a super kick, but

when Sean Michaels does it, it's different. There you go. Because they're responding to Sean Michaels doing the move, not just the move. So I've never told guys and gals to not do a move. You want to do a 450 Asai-moon salt to the floor with a

and twist, great. Do it. But make sure you do it at the right spot of the match for the right reasons. It's sold correctly. The referee is protected and everything before and after it makes sense. Very well explained, bully. Very well explained. I want to get on to the name of the show is wise choice. By the way, I'm going to fire the first shot. You did not create the Cruzeauate division. Paul Heyman did with psychosis and Ray Mysterio and Hoovey. Three guys are a fucking division who are you trying to kid come on let's let's get crazy enough this is gonna get out there's three guys in

a cruise away division I brought in play loads of guys from Mexico I flew playload of guys though were from New Japan not talking about three guys on my roster you were you had the cash to create an entire

division around the three most popular guys at the time because you saw something going on in South Philadelphia that was working oh you're high as fuck I did not watch your shit. I did not watch it. You were glued.

Kevin Sullivan did. Terry Taylor probably did. I didn't watch it. For me to watch ECW back then, I would have to get on my fucking roof of my house. I'd have to wrap myself in aluminum foil and hold a big coat hanger up in the air and I might be able to get the signal.

Come on now. You know I didn't watch that shit. This episode is brought to you by Blue Choo. Let's talk about sex. I mean, Conrad's favorite subject, but since Conrad's not here, let's talk about it anyway. Guys, you remember the days when you were always ready to go, like if the wind changed direction or the temperature varied by two or three degrees, or, you know, if it was daytime or night time, whatever, you were ready to go.

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I got a couple I want to throw you. way and we'll analyze them. WW, AEW, we're fair and freaking balance here, dude. It's going to be fun. But before I do that, we got a couple of questions. And some people here in our super chat that I want to acknowledge, Jake's channel and Haley's channel. Oh, before we get to that, Jake from Windy City, my teenage years, we spent watching you

both in T&A. It was fun. We did have a blast in TNA. And thank you for that, Jake. Appreciate it. We did have fun in TNA, didn't we? Dude, I had a blast working with you. And I was always told that you would be one of the people that I would never get along with.

Isn't that funny? I was told I would never get along with Billy Gunn. I was told I would never get along with you. I was told you were a piece of shit and a prick. But I was brought up the right way and I'd like to pay homage to my mother and father for bringing me up the right way where I judge for my own. I judge the way people treat me, the respect level that is brought to me, yada, yada. And me and you were cool from day one.

The first time we hung out was at the Philadelphia airport Marriott, and you turned me on to Petron Silver. Now, that was after we worked together in WWE, though, right? I mean, what did we do the ECW thing? Excuse me? When did we do the ECW? That was in 2005. That was one night stand that happened much later. Oh, it happened later.

Okay. The first shot that we had, the first shot that we had, the first time, we ever hung out and just, you know, BS was at the airport Marriott. And you said, hey, did you have you ever try in this patroned silver? And I said, no, you ordered two shots. We drank them together. And from there on, we've always got along. We've only had one argument.

Ooh, I don't remember. I do. And it got heated. Do tell. Bullie versus Sting in TNA. And we were going into Boston at Slam. I believe it was Slammiversary. and we were going to have a no-holds-barred match.

I despise the stipulation of no-holds-barred because there are no longer any moves or holds in wrestling that are barred. God! Think about it! Back in the day, the claw was barred. Back in the day, you couldn't throw somebody over the top rope. That was barred. Back in the day, the pile-dry.

it was barred we've moved so far from that that i always thought that this is an obsolete match title and people just throw it on there just to give it a just to give it a name and i wanted to call it anything but no holds barred sting was also on my side he voiced his opinion and they're i don't like where this is going at all i'm like eric the stip doesn't make sense it's too easy to just throw this stip on it no holds barred but there isn't anything really barred if we would have barred the pile driver leading up to this and then we called it that match it makes sense and you were you're just like it doesn't matter it doesn't matter just fucking no holds barred blah blah I'm like Eric it doesn't make sense and basically you pulled I'm the boss shut the fuck up

it's a no hold bar bat I threw my hands up and I walked away that doesn't sound like me though but no it was just it probably lasted five minutes that's the only time we really disagreed And what I did was, I remember the promo that I did before the match, and I spoke about a no-holds-barred match. And I said that there haven't been any holds-barred in pro wrestling for the longest time, but there is one move that wrestlers universally stay away from because of the risk of life-threatening injury, and that's the pile driver. So I told the story of a pile driver and how devastating it could be

because I knew within the body of the match closer to the finish that when I pulled back the ring mat and I pulled away the foam and I exposed the boards, which by the way was the first time it was ever done. And the idea and credit goes to Brian Hebner. it was the first time the boards were ever exposed and I piled drove Sting on the boards and I covered them and people thought that that was it one two sting kicked out and we gave those people so much hope so we that that's the only argument we had we were able to tie it up and make sense of it despite the fact that like now I'm going to wreck my brain trying to figure

out why I would have cared because I'm typically I would have agreed with that within about 30 seconds. So I'm going to, I'll never find the answer, but I wonder if there was a reason. I wonder if graphics were already built, if posters were already out, blah, baby, there had to be a reason, however shitty it was. I don't remember you giving me a reason or, hey, there was a good chance you did give me a reason, but I wasn't hearing it on that day. Well, that's fun. We'll talk about other fun stuff we had. As I was trying to say, and I got myself sidetracked.

We're going to talk about wise choices in a minute, but Super Dave, we've got to service these super chats, man. They're coming in fast. furious and all that algorithm activity and the donations of what make this thing go around. So Jake's channel and Haley's channel and Dad's channel, thank you guys, all of you, each and every one of you people. Since a lot of independent wrestling companies no longer use tables and now use doors instead, would you have had Devon changes in him to Dorvan Dudley? Next question.

I don't want to be rude to your fans. I don't want to be rude to your fans, but no, we would not change the name. You've got to understand. If these guys are fans of mine, they're up for the abuse. Okay. Nobody faint of heart comes here. I don't think. Do you're Vaughn, get the tables.

No, Durvon, get the door. How's that? All right. We've turned the negative into a positive. All right, Super Dave. Anything else? We've got Jacob M. This is a question for you, bully.

How real was one night? stand in the heat of the moment. The heat seemed crazy. I'm sure you spoke about it before. Also, what gimmick match would you make? Let's talk about one night stand. You kind of spoke about it, you know, a little bit, but what was the vibe for you guys? It was a big deal for the ECW guys because of how much we believed in ECW. And, you know, I think the story of how we got to one night stand is extremely interesting. I've told it a couple of times, but one night's stand does not happen without Rob Van Dam being a pest. Van Dam kept going to Vince and saying there's still money in ECW. There's still legs to ECW. There's something here. There's

something here for something here. And he did it for a long time. And then I'll never forget one night at a Monday night raw. Vince called me and Devon into the office. And he goes, do you think ECW still has legs? And we had a discussion. with him as far as why we thought that at least for one night, you know, the band gets back together and it would work. Obviously, it was Vince's idea to go as far as he did with it, with W. But if you don't believe me, and not you, Eric, you were a part of it. You took a great 3D, by the way. If nobody believes me about what it was like to be in that building that night go back and watch one night stand with your eyes closed don't watch listen and it'll tell you

everything you need to hear the energy from the minute we went live on pay-per-view until steve austin drinks that last beer you cannot replicate the energy in the hammerstein ballroom of one night stand in any other show whether it's a w WCW, New Japan, AEW, end of story. That's how I feel about the night. And there are a lot of fans out there that would agree. Well, I was there too. And I was standing up in the crowd with a couple other

or WWE guys, I think JBL was with me, probably to protect me. Because they have a fair amount of heat on me there. Little bit. They didn't like me much at all there. But I was up in the crowd, you know? And not going to lie, I had a couple beers. I was ready for whatever was going to happen. I was in that frame of mind.

I knew I was going to have fun, but I'm right in the middle of the cloud. And I think the energy that you're talking about, I absolutely agree with you 100% because it's so tight. It was such, I mean, it's, it was pretty awesome. And the building has that thunder dome feel to it. Like Mad Max beyond Thunderdome. Everybody stacked on top of one another.

And just the energy from the crowd of I equated to like when Kiss finally got back together and they played that first show and they hit that first chord for Detroit Rock City in San Diego or when they played in Detroit for the first time. It's that thing that people held near and dear and are getting back for the first time in so long. and it's just amazing energy in the room. And I remember me and Devon versus Dreamer and the Sandman was the main event. It went on last.

And there was so much great shit to follow. I'm like, guys, we can do whatever we want for 10 minutes. Once we light that table on fire and Tommy goes through it, that's the only thing that they're going to remember. So why don't we just do what we got to do, beat each other up a little bit, give them a little plunder, a little bit of this, a little bit of that, like the table on fire and go home because we had so much great pro wrestling beforehand we had the holy shit spot in the table plus we knew what we were getting with austin afterwards

it's almost like the match was inconsequential and that's why i said guys it doesn't matter nobody's going to be talking about sandman locking up with bubba or the drop hole that tommy did to devon nobody's remembering this they're going to remember a flaming table and they're going remember the aftermath. Well, I want to remember a couple more of our super chats here. Now we're going to get on to some wise choices conversation. Super Dave, who do we have on deck? The wrestling old head. Respect you two great minds. Thank you very much. My question is, like WrestleMania should Royal Rumble and SummerSlam be two-night events? I love that question

because, well, because it represents the fact that the fan base here, our members, Everybody watching us here at 83.com, especially on wise choices, are just such a fucking enlightened group of people that they ask really good questions. What do you think? Two nights for those two? No, I believe WrestleMania should be kept special and be two nights and everything else should be one-night events. All right. One more quick one. Super Dave, what do we got?

Wow, Bill, 2023. Gentlemen, I grew up watching pro wrestling and you two were such a pleasure to watch. Thank you very much for that. My question for you both is who... Who would you want to be the Booker of AEW in place of Tony Khan? Thank you, and God bless. I'll let you go first. I'm not suggesting that anybody be the Booker instead of Tony Khan.

What I'm suggesting is Tony Khan be more open-minded to the veterans and the creative minds that are around him and been there and done that. And I can tell by the product that that's not happening all the time. I can tell by watching that the talent is booking a lot of their own angles. Tony might be saying yes or saying no, but Tony Khan is not a booker. Tony Khan is a matchmaker. There's a big difference.

You want a dream match? Go to Tony Khan. He'll tell you what dream match is put on. You want an angle booked out for six months? I'm sorry. And I'll give you the reason why. Eric, what learning tree did you sit under when you first got in this business? Vern Gagnon.

Pretty respectable Booker, right? Yep. Who did Paul Heyman sit under? Dusty Roads. Dusty and all of the great managers from the pen. Enough learning trees. My point is this. Every great booker in this industry sat under the learning tree of another great

booker at one time before they ever picked up a pencil. What great booker did Tony Kahn ever sit underneath? Dave Nelson. sir, the church cheese. I'm going to forget you even said that. There's some chat rooms. Why's Bucker Fathers in those chat rooms, brother? His money, his bat, his ball, his promotion.

If he wants to book on the fly, fine. But it's going to take years before you figure out your own mistakes and get up into a groove where you can call yourself a booker, where you can say, here's my main event for, or All In and Wembley next year. And instead of just making it a main event as a dream match, I'm going to make it my main event and tell a story, i.e. Cody Rhodes versus the bloodline.

A phenomenal main event at WrestleMania with tons of backstory, developed characters, and it all comes together in one grandiose moment when Cody Rhodes finally finishes this chapter of his story and gets the one, two, three. Danielson versus Osprey is a fantastic match. It's fun to watch, but I can only pop so many times. I can only go, whoa, wow, we, oh, holy shit, holy shit, this is awesome, this is awesome.

Fight forever, fight forever. I can only do that so much. A human being has many, many emotions, and I want to tap into everyone when I'm taking them on my roller coaster ride of a story and my roller coaster ride of a match because if i can get you to emotionally invest in something the finish is going to be that much better exactly when you're making love if you build it up the right way the finish is that yeah exactly there you i'm trying to be a little nice here if you if you if the foreplay is good if the caressing is good if the hugging is good if the kissing is good oh my god you get a rouse you get a rouse you get a rouse and then when

everything comes together once you get to the finish it's like oh my god i need a cigarette that was so good as opposed to let's just pull our pants down and party which is good every once in a while but for the most part i want the build-up so i i don't think anybody should i don't know who i would give the pencil to but if there was a gun to my head and i had a hand tony's pencil to another person, I would hand it to somebody who had experience as a booker or somebody that I know

had sat under the learning tree of a booker, i.e. Dustin Rhodes. Wow. Great call on that, my man. Wow. You know, I'm friends with Dustin. I saw Dustin a couple weeks ago we chatted. I mean, you know, we don't hang out

and I'd send each other birthday cards or anything like that. But I don't know why Justin never occurred to me, but could there anybody be more right for that role than Dustin Rhodes? Because Dustin not only was born under that learning tree and just by sheer proximity would have absorbed more knowledge that turns into instinct than probably any of the top guys on that roster right now. But he also worked in WWE and understands that aspect. of story. Because I don't, you know, there's no one right way to do things. There's, you know, you can merge ideas. You can merge ideologies or philosophies. What you're talking about right now

is the style of wrestling, the art of wrestling that I appreciate the most, which is character and story told in a physical opera. That's what I love. But I think with AEW and the reason why Tony's probably not listening to too many people and letting the talent book the shows is because Tony's philosophy about what he wants I'm guessing now we've never obviously had this conversation just based on what I see

he's in it for the spot fest style not that it's not all that way don't give me around not throwing up wet blanket over everything but the things that Tony seems to do most often is more about you know the Osprey Danielson match

phenomenal, friggin' match for what it was. If that's what you like, my God, you got more than enough of what you like for the next six months. Tony does a phenomenal job of catering to his current audience. Which is the smallest portion of the broadest wrestling audience. That is, been my bitch from day one. And it's not even a bitch. Dude, embrace it.

If that's what you want to be, do not be embarrassed. Be fucking proud of it. Embrace it. but then quit throwing bombs over here because you're doing something they're not doing and they're doing something you're not doing so there's no need to compare yourself particularly when you're taking shots at the 800 pound gorilla from down here in the basement don't do that you're losing goodwill and how did you not here's here's my thing listen at the end of the day you lost at the end of the day hayman lost you all lost to vince

I don't care how, but you all lost. But you came fucking close. You came real, real, real close. Thus your whole 83 weeks podcast. This is a mind that whether you came up with all the ideas of yourself or you were smart enough to listen to other people's great ideas, you were the guy that had Vince McMahon on the ropes like no other promoter, booker, owner, yada, yada, ever had.

I'll be damned if I'm not going to pick your brain. How the fuck did you put Vince on the ropes? I'm not to ask you that question now. Right. But you did. Because I almost gave you the answer right on this show. We'd have been here until tomorrow morning. But I don't, you legit, and you know the details of this.

All I know is the tip of the iceberg. Eric almost put Vince out of business. Why wouldn't I want to pick your brain? Let me ask you this. You've been on AEW television three or four times? Twice, I think. Has your brain ever been picked? No, no.

Foolishness. My opinion, foolishness. But what do I know? I'm only one half of the most decorated tag team in the history of pro wrestling. And a smart mugger, I'll tell you. And a smart muck and father, too, just by virtue of this conversation. That's a conversation that if Tony hears that conversation, he's a fool for not picking up the phone and calling you. Because that's a depth.

of analysis into what makes it really work that you're not going to get very well there's not many people that can explain it the way you just explain it because they don't know it the way you know it that are available to have a conversation with there are some people out there most of them under contract currently but and I know you offered to do it for free sit down and have a meal with a man and give them a point of view

to not take advantage of that I think is the thing that disappoints me the most. It's an ignorant person that isn't willing to, when I say ignorant, I mean, lack of information and knowledge. If you're an ignorant person because of your lack of information or knowledge about a particular field of endeavor, no matter what that may be, find people that know more than you and bring them into the tent. Listen to them. You don't have to do what they say. You're not working for them, but listen, as bully just said, open your mind because it may change your perspective, particularly when you look at what's actually working. WWE's numbers year over year are up, positive green across the board. AEWs are down

during the same period of time. Every one of them are down year over year. Well, Tony's supposed to be some kind of an analytics expert. Analyze that, Muckerfather. You don't even need a calculator. All right. One more question, super chat. Then we're going to get into a little. I just want to follow that up one quick because there's a little bit more. this. I have been asked on social media frequently, bully, would you ever want to be the booker of AEW? The answer is no, because I know what my weaknesses are in this business, and what of my weaknesses, Eric, is a blank piece of paper. I will stare at that blank piece of paper all night long and not write anything down on it. But if you write down on paper what you

want, I'll book that shit out for a year. I don't make things. I make things. I make is better that might sound pompous it's not meant to sound no i get it it's accurate you give me something you tell me bubba i want to go with this and this how do we because i know this guy versus this guy will draw money but i just don't know how to get there that's where i come in helping people helping pull characters out of people that they never knew existed within themselves with talent and getting a feel for what their real personality is. I set it on Busted Open. At the end of the day, Cody Rhodes is a heel.

He's got heel written all over him. He's tormented. He's Anakin Skywalker. And all he needs is the right emperor in Paul Heyman to pull it out of him. Now I can go all over with this, but I would never want to be a booker. I offered up my services for free. Why? because of my genuine love for the wrestling industry.

This industry has done very well by me. I'm very blessed, very lucky, and I gave it my absolute fucking all. And if you truly love an industry, you will do whatever you possibly can to give back to it. Paul Heyman was offered the pencil in TNA. He said, I'll take it. He goes, you don't pay me for six months.

I'll do it on the arm for free. but if I get your numbers up to a certain rating, you give me 50% of the company. Dixie wouldn't pull the trigger. And it wasn't just the money. She would have never given up that much control. She couldn't. She just emotionally, you know that.

She wanted to be the female Vince McMahon. And if anybody else would have started getting, even if Paul would have been successful, had somehow, and Dixie's parents would have never, ever gone for that deal. but let's just let's play maybe they would Paul comes in the minute he started turning T&A around do you know what would have happened the chatter would have started coming up paul haman paul haman tna paul haman dixie carter who was that dixie lady again and that wasn't going to happen so it was twofold on that I want to talk about one of the newest products

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You're going to thank me and you're going to smell better. all right let's do some wise choices name of the show i got to brand it it was tony's idea he told me it was a good idea to sunset my fraud of a podcast which was called strictly business it was one of the top financially it was a it was a great podcast it was one of the top five podcasts out there week after week but it was a scheduling issue and working with you know a co-host all the time and my schedule was fucked up so i i made a brief announcement said hey i'm you know This is going to be the last one.

I think John Elba McCahoe said, hey, we're going to wrap it up. Eric's schedule, my schedule, blah, blah, blah, very nice, just letting everybody know. About 4 o'clock in the morning, Tony Khan gets a hold of his iPhone. It's a good thing. You're sunseting that fraud of a podcast. That's what caught my eye.

Fraud of a podcast right before we make our Wonder Brothers Discovery announcement. And you know me. You fucking light me up. We're going to go for a ride. It may not be where I want to go. It may not be where you want to go, but we're going to go for a ride, see what happens. And we had a blast, but I thought, Tony referenced making a wise choice to sunset my front of a podcast. I thought, well, that would make a hell of a name for a YouTube show.

And literally, 12 hours later, we have a YouTube show called Wise Choices, and it just exploded. So here we are. Wise Choices. Let's talk about Becky Lynch. Battle Royal, make the women's champion. What do you think? Now, obviously, Ria got hurt, forced the issue. I want to talk a little bit about Rie in a minute,

but you think this was a wise choice to have that battle royal to create a new champion? And Part B, do you think it was a wise choice to make Becky Lynch the champion? Before I give you my answer, I'm going to take you on a little journey with me to try to pick your brain. So Ria Rip Rihersia is your champion. She comes out of WrestleMania retaining against Becky, very strong, very over with the crowd, good numbers, yada, yada. You do a backstage segment with Liv Morgan because you have plans to heat live up again. Something unfortunate happens backstage. Ria gets hurt, something on her arm.

Now you have to have her relinquish the championship, and you have to put the championship someplace for a period of time. You, as a booker, if you have the gun to your head and Ria just, got injured, where is the number one place you have learned over the years to double park your championship? God, I'd have to think about that, bully. I'd have to think about that. Okay. From what I understand, from what knowledge I've garnered in this business, you put it on somebody

that is extremely credible, you know who can carry it, and is going to do the championship right and continue to help make the championship. All right. Okay, now I guess I didn't really quite understand your question. You're talking about in general, what would you do? Yes. In this scenario, I think a lot of it would depend, for me at least, on how strongly do I feel about my plans for Liv, Morgan. Because if I really like her arc, if I really like the story that we have laid out for, assuming there is one, and I do.

I think creative is getting kind of ahead of the game in WWE. but if I'm looking at Live, and I've already made the decision that I'm going to heat her up, but I'm going to do it with a story. I might, oh, God, I'm such a huge fan of Becky Lynch. She's such a powerfully valuable character. I don't want anybody to take this the wrong way. But it makes sense to put it on Becky,

almost a transition, because I think that's what you're saying, or transition point, whether that takes a month or two months or three months, while we continue to heat up live, so we're not pulling, So we're not losing RIA and a great story. We lost Ria.

Let's keep a great story and give Liv a chance to be successful, as opposed to going, ah, fuck it, let's throw the story out the window and put you on. We're going to make you the champion instead. If Liv wins the battle royal, you now have Liv Morgan, you're a world champion who hurt Ria Ripley. Where do you go? You've got to heat up a bunch of baby phases just to feed to Live Morgan.

What good does that do? However, Liv Morgan told, Ria Ripley that she was going to take everything from her. She just came out with a new t-shirt called the Revenge Tour. What's more revenge than infiltrating the entire judgment day? Stealing Dom, infiltrating the judgment day, taking over the judgment day, making googly eyes at Dominic,

so Dominic can help her eventually defeat, Becky to become the world champion. Now we've made somebody. Agree or not. I love you. You're like, you're such a rare commodity. It's a very, I love that. I can sit down and take.

And I typically don't fantasy book, but this is more tactical booking. What you're talking about isn't fantasy booking. It's, okay, we got a gun to our head. This one's down. This one can't do this. We're kind of not sure we want to go. with this one, but we think we do. I mean, now you're in a situation where you've got to pivot.

That's one of the things about the wrestling business. If you're really good, as a writer, as a booker, whatever you want to call it, producer, if you're really good, one of the things you have to be really good at, if you've been good for any length of time at all, is taking that plan that you had, that you were in love with. You were going to bronze it when this whole thing was over because you thought it was that valuable of a piece of art, all the work you put into this. And then, well, shit happens, not going to.

to be able to do it now what and oh by the way you've got 72 hours to figure this shit out oh and oh by the way it better be at least as good as what we planned originally but you get good you can get good at that if you understand basic storytelling structure and you think like bully thanks and yeah i love this kind of stuff this is tactical bookie i love and at like let's say uh two pay-per-views down the road Dominic eventually helps live win the championship and now Dominic and Live

are right on the cusp of their relationship and we forgot all about Mommy we forgot all about Rea Ripley and then they advertised next week on Monday Night Raw or next week on Smackdown we're going to have the coronation of Liv Morgan

our new WWE Women's Champion as the official leader of the judgment day and live and Dominic will kiss for the very first time so I'm telling you where the lightning it is going to strike and what time and just as we're

about to have the coronation and the lip lock of live and Dom for the first time boom Ria Ripley's music hits and the fucking roof blows off the place that's called the end of act two and now you've got a story between those two and now you have

something as opposed to just hear Here's your Consolation Prize Championship in the Women's Battle Royal because our A player went down. Awesome. Thank you. Tony, are you listening? Tony! Hey, Tony! The fuck's wrong with you.

Call him. I got his number. All right. Super Dave. We got a couple chats we want to knock out of here before we transition into some other Tony Con talk. Philip Holmes. homes. Eric and Bulley, huge fan of you both. Curious to know Bulley's experience with Scott DeMore, and what do you guys think where his future may be? Thanks, guys. Bulley, you take that. I don't know,

Scott. Nothing but positive things to say about Scott, especially during our last partnership in T&A that I lasted about a year and a half. I saw Scott DeMore at the Rick Flair. Rick Flair's final match and at the roast. We just crawleds pass, and we hadn't seen each other in years, and we worked together in T&A in, like, 2006, 2007, Team 3D versus Team Canada, yada, yada, yada.

He was on creative. We didn't always see eye to eye back then. That's totally fine, but Scott, hey, Scott, how you doing? What's going on, Bubba, yada, yada, BS, I said, Scott, what are you doing with your world champion? And this, your world champion at the time

was Josh Alexander. a bland version of Kurt Angle the best not brought out of him yet a phenomenal wrestler with headgear but a phenomenal wrestler with headgear had already been done in Kurt Angle and oh by the way Kurt Angle was extremely entertaining on the way Josh was just kind of there nothing there wasn't real substance to Josh

so I asked Scott I said what are you doing what your world champion. And Scott said, we're trying to figure it out. I said, give it to me for three months. He's like, are you serious? I said, yeah, give them to me for three months. I said, I'll tell you a story and I'll blow it off at a pay-per-view. I said, and I'll put them over on the way out. But we got to do it my way. And when I say my way, Eric, I'm not, I don't say that with ego. I say that in, I know what works when it comes to getting a certain talent over. I know how to bring a side out of you by pushing your buttons in a way and putting you in situations in a way that you have never seen coming before,

i.e., me challenging Hulk to take his sunglasses off in the middle of the ring because I was going to fucking bite him in the jugular. That was my moment. That was my moment. I'm standing tall with the, standing eye to eye with the best of the best of the best. And I'm going to bring something out of him that he couldn't even bring out. That's the way I think. So for three months, I worked with Josh Alexander.

We showed a different side to him, a more aggressive side, a more bloodthirsty side. We got his wife involved. We got his kid involved. We take things that have worked in the past and we just brought them forward and we worked them to the individual characters. Bullie Ray is old school heel 101, brought to you by a real fucking brash, crass, New York Italian by way of Dudleyville. It works. I have not tried to reinvent the wheel at all. I just deliver it in a different way. And by the time we got to the end with Josh Alexander, things went really, really well. And my three months stint in TNA lasted a year

and a half, did nothing but good business with Scott DeMore, wrestled Scott DeMore in a match in London, Ontario, worked really well. All good, thumbs up. Look forward to going back there when the time is right with the right opponent. You know, I just worked with Josh Alexander over in Australia.

What a super guy. Really good guy. And a great in the ring, too. Really like it. I mean, you need somebody to go 60 minutes. He's your guy. He looks like, him and Osprey had a phenomenal match, just recently. But would you, but what's going to stand the test of time?

The phenomenal match or the phenomenal story. The phenomenal story and the character that went with it. Hulk versus Andre was not pretty, but oh my God, will we remember it to the day we die? Hulk versus rock. It was what it was. But to me, it's the greatest WrestleMania match of all time. It was phenomenal.

Just go back and listen. Your ears won't lie to you. Sometime your eyes will because you blink. All right, but we're going to get on to our next wise choice topic here because I've got to be respectful of your time. You've got a busy night tonight. You're a busy man. You got shit going on all over the place.

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so that's 8 o'clock your time. There you go. There you go. Next wise choice. You know, the whole jungle, Jack Perry, Gaga.

I mean, it's kind of crazy. in a lot of way, a lot of ways. We saw the footage, what was it, two weeks ago now, tonight. It was the footage. Got a little bit of a bump in a rating, about 50,000, 60,000 people over the previous week. The following week, it was like a fart in church.

Nobody cared. Back down to 752,000. Tony Kahn came out recently and said, as recently as I think today at Super Dave, you may have this, we can take a look at it on the screen, basically said that. that I also felt like it was important to explain partially where Jack's been because the last time we saw him on AEW television was at Wembley. Tony Kahn said, he went through the curtain, we never saw him again, so I feel some responsibility to the viewer, baby face attempt, given I knew Jack was going to return and explain where he's been.

I'm going to take this one first. This sounds to me just like a bunch of cover my ass bullshit because I want everybody to think I know what I'm doing and I'm really a good booker. So this thing was just a judgment call on the plan because after all, we had to use the footage of punk and jungle boy backstage, which was essentially a video footage of what could have been a fight over lunch money in the fifth grade. But somehow that was going to explain why Jungle Jim, Jungle Jack, what's his name, Jim? Jungle Jack Perry. Jungle Jack, Jungle Jim was a cartoon. jungle jack so is jungle jim or jumble jack jumble jack jumble jack jumble jack perry needed that footage so that the audience would understand why he wasn't on tv does that make any sense to you no i'm glad you said that because i thought i was losing my mind eric when it comes to the whole backstage footage

I formed my opinion I stuck to my opinion and then what I did is I talked to a bunch of people who have been in this business longer than me and are considerably smarter than me and I said tell me why that was smart to air that footage I could not find one person to give me feedback as to why it was smart to air that footage

I respect so many people's minds in this industry. I could not find wrestling fans on social media. I could not find anybody. I think we got one phone call on Busted Open, and I had one phone call on Busted Open after Dark

of fans trying their absolute damnedest. AEW, diehards and faithful, who will go down with the ship, if it ever goes down, and I hope it never does. But who will go down with the ship? Trying their hardest to be like, well, this, that, the other. other thing. No, I just don't, you were, your rating was around the 800 number for weeks and

weeks and weeks and weeks. And then for two weeks, you dipped into the 750s and you hit the panic button, holy shit. That's what really happened. That's what really happened. You hot shot at this, this footage, because you saw numbers dipping. You hot shot the footage, you bump yourself back up to 816, 826, right around that area. Okay. So as I said, I hope and pray that this does something positive for the company. All right, you used this footage, you bumped yourself back up into the low eights. What is going to happen the very next week when you don't have hot shot footage? And of course, again, if you listen to Tony, this, you know, there was a tremendous,

and I will admit, no, I haven't, I didn't watch the pay-per-view. I did watch the scene segment where Jungle Jack Perry snuck in to, to the arena, dressed up like a fan with a sting mask on. And I'm going to give you my quick opinion on that element, just the execution. I dug it. I thought it was really, really well done. The wrestling audience will always, always, always love it when you surprise them and you pull something off that they didn't see coming.

That's just the nature of the business, always has been, always will be. The execution of it I loved, but to suggest it because that reaction, because it was a really well-executed scene segment. But that somehow equates to momentum, I think, is a giant leap. It's when I'm hearing a lot of Tony and others surrogates for AEW. But Super Dave, I think we've got the ticket sales from Marustle Ticks for tonight's show. So this was a couple hours ago. Okay, day of show, they haven't been able to sell out 2,500 tickets.

in their birthplace, their home court, their home field advantage for dynamite coming off all of this great action, this pay-per-view, and let's see, you've sold 722 tickets over the last eight days. That should tell you everything you know about how effective. I mean, that's real-time data right there. If what you think and what you feel and what you want people to believes that this scene was so good using that footage i owed it to the fans that's such a baby face comment it makes me sick to my stomach it's so transparent but i owe it to the fans and it's going to help get him over and explain where his apps it's so much bullshit and to suggest that that pop you got because that's what it was it was a pop for a well executed scene but to suggest that that's

going to equate to momentum look it can i will be the first admit well you and i could sit down over tequila, some burritos or something, and we could probably figure out a way to make it work. It's possible that it can. It's highly doubtful that it will. Depends on what they do with him tonight. I spoke about it on Busted Open this morning, but I'll go into it.

First of all, the execution of the run-in by Jack Perry, pushing the ladder open, dumping FTR. Great job. Bucks win. What I loved about the angle was the attention to detail, A fan jumped the rail in a mask. Security hit the ring. That's the attention to detail that I like to take. When security hits the ring and treats Jack Perry like a fan, that's good.

Now the mask comes off. Here's the reveal. So far we've seen two reactions from a live crowd for Jack Perry. We saw him in the New Japan show a couple of weeks ago, which he got a phenomenal response, about 6,000 people at that show, all behind Jack Perry. at Dynasty he jumps the rail

he gets unmasked all those people were behind Jack Perry AEW as of tonight needs to turn Jack Perry into a monster baby face martyr who flies the flag for AEW

who swears to the AEW fan base that a cancer like Sam Punk will never ever set foot in the doors of AEW again he's a good guy he's getting these responses a good booker listens to the fan base so if the fan base is cheering for this kid

upon his return no matter what let's present him in a way that the people like there's a way for this kid to become a monster baby face and the heels in this scenario are the two guys that have stuck by CM Punk side the whole time FTR

I would go off the show with Jack Perry in the middle of the ring cutting an passionate baby face promo not burying punk, not bringing up punk and if you have to bring them up, you bring them up once and you turn them into the biggest piece of shit that's ever walked the planet. It's very pro-A-E-W.

It's very pro I want to be here. It's very pro everybody else wants to be here, as Adam Copeland said a couple of weeks ago, you send out every wrestler from the back supporting Jack Perry's speech. You get a massive AEW chant going, and that's the last taste you leave in the people's mouth this week. I'm so excited about that because I can see that in my head.

And, you know, for me, bully, whenever I'm sitting in a room with a bunch of people or even one other person and you're throwing ideas around and you get into, okay, what if we do this? I love that. What if we do? You know, that's what I miss about the wrestling business. And Eric, I'm going to give you props, because I sat right next to you in TNA in those creative meanings for a long time. You were the smartest guy in the room.

You know why? Because you knew that you weren't the smartest guy in the room. There you go, because I surrounded myself with smart people. You are one hell of a worker, my friend, because I did not hear a ton of great ideas, a ton of ideas, together about they're great enough. I saw you listen to everybody else and be able to extrapolate, this is good, this is good, this is good. Let's throw this away.

I cannot believe the amount of times I saw Hulk Hogan get shot down in creative meetings. Like Hulk would be like, well, brother, you know, maybe we should do this. Ah, that sucks. Oh, okay, Hulk would just shush. And I'm not talking negatively about it, but like the things that I witnessed. And you were smart enough to know, yes, that makes sense. No, that doesn't make sense.

And it doesn't matter how you get there, as long as you get there and it works. And people need to look at the numbers a little better with TNA because a lot of stuff that we did there really, really worked. Oh, I know. But for me, bully, it's just like when you, and just like when we sat on those TV meetings basically before we started shooting and we're bouncing ideas around, to me that was the most fun part. Like that was the most fun I've ever had in the wrestling business is when you're sitting in a room,

Or you're sitting in the car, you're sitting at the bar, Marriott, you know, watching the replay of the show, whatever. And you're sitting around and you're sharing these what if scenarios and you're throwing these ideas around because just random shit can start coming together and all of a sudden it makes sense. And for me, just like I did with you back in T&A and just like I'm doing right now with you, as you're describing that scene, how you're going to end AEW Dynamite tonight, I can literally picture it in my head. you're speaking. Just like I could, when we were all sitting around a room and people were throwing ideas around, my, I'd start throwing green flags whenever I could literally picture something that somebody was pitching. If they're pitching it to me and the picture just wasn't, it just wasn't clear, I couldn't understand it relatively easily and I could see the emotion in it. If I couldn't, if I couldn't feel it, I would move on to the next

idea but just like you're laying that show i mean i literally i'm getting excited hoping that i see something even close to that tonight could you imagine if and i'm going to go a little far here could you imagine if jack perry was standing in the middle of the ring and he took his shirt off and he had a tattoo of AEW right over his heart you have to you have to make those fans believe in you one of the things that AEW has on its side is that the fan Base is very loyal to the product, much like ECW fans were loyal to ECW, but they can sniff out bullshit. So this is, this is all about passion. This is all about a rallying cry. Edge gave a rallying cry a couple of weeks ago, but once Tony came back with his lowbrow footage,

buried it. It buried him. And I felt bad for Adam Copeland. They had, I'm go, I'm, I'm basing how I feel on Jack Perry's responses in front of a live audience these past couple of weeks. You have the potential to make a young baby face who swears he'll do right by the company. I started in this

company, I'm going to die with this company, and we're all going to do it together. We're getting back to the original vision. We're not letting bad people in here. And I'm not using the word cancer and CM Punk in a shoot way. I'm saying this in a work way. I don't believe that CM Punk

is a canter. I believe we all go through ups and downs in this business, and there's two sides to every story. I'm using it in a way within a storyline where you can bring the people on a journey, not to prove a point that Sampunk is a bad guy, but because you're the guy who's going to help this company achieve its greatness again. And if I have that entire locker room come out and surround the ring, and they're all clapping, all 2,500 people at Daily Space are going to get up and clap too. And if all the talent start chanting AEW, AEW, all

those people are going to, and you start the biggest AEW chant of all time in the place that AEW started. You know, Billy was, and I mean this is surely, I know there's going to be people out there when they see this. It's going to like, oh, you're trying to

help bully get a job and Billy wants a job there. And it's a fucking not true. I have a job. It's called Busted Open. Yeah. job. It's called the Team 3D Academy. I have a job. It's called going to work for any company in the world I want, including the WWE, i.e., the WrestleMania call, including TNA, if they ever call, and if AEW ever called and said, hey, we got this phenomenal idea. You want to get Jack Perry over as a baby face given to me for three months? But what I don't understand, bully, is,

no, I don't know this is a fact. I'm not Dave Meltzer. I don't spread rumors. If I don't know something and I heard it somewhere else, I'll make sure everybody knows that. I don't know if this is true. But one of the things that I've heard from people who are close to Tony is that, and I've heard even Tony, even Tony has come out and said in interviews, what a massive ECW fan he was and how much of an impression that had on him. And here's the guy right here, Tony. Here I go again. If Tony wants his version of ECW and you're available, this just mystifies me even the fuck more. why wouldn't he make that call? There's got to be a reason, and I can't imagine what it is. Tony Kahn, I'm going to use a strong phrase here,

does not like me. Do I know for a fact that Tony Kahn does not like me? No, but I've heard that terminology used along the way enough where I can surmise or hypothesize that Tony Kahn does not like me. And that's because about two or three years ago, Tony Kahn came on busted open. and this was probably like the third or fourth time I had been on with him and interviewing him

and I asked him about the refereeing I asked him about the credibility of his refs I did not believe there was enough credibility on the refs I believe that the refs were being hung out to dry I believe that the wrestlers were putting in referees in scenarios where they were made to look bad I said do you plan on trying to improve the refereeing or stick to the original rules and regulations

that AEW had set forth in its instance? I asked a question very non-bulley-esque. I asked it in a very professional way and he immediately went on the defensive with his answer. If you don't believe me, just go back and listen to the conversation. As a matter of fact, after he kind of chewed my head out, goes, do you even watch the product? You don't know what I'm talking about. I'm not here to talk about reference. After he kind of went at me,

you would think that bully when it went right back after him. I didn't. I maintained my professionalism because I was representing busted open at the time. We just went on with the interview. He definitely did not take too kindly to that questioning, and I know he doesn't take too kindly

to my criticism and critiques of AEW every single week. But Eric, you know me. I might be opinionated. I might be loud. I might be this and that, but I'm respectful with my opinion and any time I have something to say I give constructive criticism

you'll never hear me say something sucks you'll never hear me say a talent sucks you never hear me say a story sucks I'll tell you why it didn't work I'll tell you why it didn't work and I'll tell you how you could have done it to make it work it's kind of like with the Japanese culture the word no doesn't exist

in the Japanese culture right Eric doesn't exist It's a disrespectful word to just say no. You'll never hear me critique something in wrestling unless I can give you a constructive criticism or how I think you could have done it better. And that's it. Brutal honesty, which as you know in this business,

a lot of people cannot handle. No, no. We are one percenters. We are the one percenters. I've never been full of shit. I've never been afraid to speak my mind. And that's it. And it's amazing, really.

You know, business that historically is, you know, populated with physically, mentally, in many ways, really tough people. There's a certain aspect of it that's really, really fucking fragile. And it's unfortunate. Bully, thank you so much for being here. Let's hit a couple more questions in case any of them are for you before we wrap this up. Super Dave, what are we got? We don't want to leave anybody hanging if we can avoid it.

Taylor, done, bully. You compare ECW to AEW a lot as punk. rock type idea. Oh, I see. As a puck rock type idea. What's the biggest similarity in shortcomings that both companies share? Keep up busted open in 83 weeks. Thank you, brother.

The biggest similarity is the relationship with the fan base. AEW did a phenomenal job from day one, practically ripping off the slogan of ECW. When Cody said, this is a revolution. Well, ECW was the original wrestling revolution, and it was a pure revolution. It was an honest revolution. We really felt like it was ECW versus WWE and WCW.

And Vince McMahon and Eric Bischoff were the enemy. And Paul Heyman was a genius in presenting you gentlemen like that. Because if we didn't like you, we didn't like your company. And we didn't like the fellow, not that we didn't like the fellow wrestlers, but we really believed in this competition. And we were the underdog. So the biggest similarity is that fan base. And I think their fan base over the past five years has diminished a bit because they're just tired of the way the company is being presented or the product is being presented.

I know people say that ratings don't matter. But Tony Kahn just said the other day that the biggest indicator of whether fans like what you're doing or not is the rating. So if the owner of the company is putting the on the rating, why shouldn't I? No, and it's, look, you're a television company, you're a television producer. You're not a wrestling promoter. You don't promote live events. You've got no live touring business. You produce television and pay-per-views on the road.

You're essentially a television producer. You better care about the ratings because there's no other way to measure your success. I don't give a thunk about Wembley. It's an outlier. What are your ticket sales? Because that's another way of measuring. What about merchandise sales? That's another way of measuring, and television ratings and pay-per-view revenue.

That's the only ways you can measure. And if you, just like we pointed out a couple of minutes ago, in their backyard, Daly's Place, where they started really, $2,500 tickets, they can't sell them. That's kind of an indication, just like the ratings are an indication. All right. One more question. What do we got? Who do we have?

Nick Sparta, would Bubba ever take a role as a manager? I've seen him hype people up on his podcast, so well. someone like Bubba alongside Braun would be awesome. What do you think is it? Scratch your itch, man? I would love the opportunity on, there's not many things I want to do on camera, but being a manager is one of them.

And whenever I get to portray bully Ray in the way that myself and you were able to portray him back in the day, which I believe is the truest version of him, if that comes along, then yes, I'm willing to do that. It has to be very, very specific. but being a manager for somebody in which I can help get somebody over who might not be great on the mic

as Paul has done for so many talents and Paul is an absolute genius and the best at it if I could do the same thing for other talents and help them along the way I'd be more than happy to do it because it would be me relying on one of my strengths which is my ability to speak and wrestling is no longer one of my strengths I'm really great with smoke and mirrors

and I can give you a spectacle. That's the name of my book, by the way, smoke, mirrors and tables. I love it. I love it. Billy, I know you've got to go. You've got a big night ahead of you, a lot of research to do. You've got to watch the wrestling. You've got to do a show and bust it open.

Where can we hear that show again? Give it to me one more time, bro. So tonight at 10 p.m. Eastern Time, every Wednesday night, immediately following Dynamite, busted open after dark with me. Uncle Bulley, breaking down dynamite, taking your call. and it's on Sirius XM, Channel 156, the same station that you listen to Busted Open on every single morning, seven days a week, from 9 a.m. to noon.

You can join me there. Love you, brother. I can't wait to see you again. Let's do this again soon. Thanks for the invite, Eric. I appreciate it. I appreciate your audience, and great to see you. See you, man.

See you.