99% Invisible - Roman Mars on Blank Check with Griffin and David

Episode Date: May 6, 2022

Bonus episode: Roman Mars on Blank Check with Griffin and David talking about The Quick and The Dead (Sam Raimi, 1995)Roman note: I LOVE this show!  Many of us on the 99pi staff are huge fans and follow it religiously. If you've never heard or it, search through to find a director you like and listen to a whole series. You'll be hooked.Not just another bad movie podcast, Blank Check with Griffin & David reviews directors' complete filmographies episode to episode. Specifically, the auteurs whose early successes afforded them the rare ‘blank check’ from Hollywood to produce passion projects. Each new miniseries, hosts Griffin Newman and David Sims delve into the works of film’s most outsized personalities in painstakingly hilarious detail.Subscribe! It will make you happy! Apple, Stitcher, Spotify

Hello, beautiful nerds. A few weeks ago, I had the honor of being a guest on one of the best podcasts of all time. I've listened to every episode of Patreon Supporter. It's been a genuine comfort and companion to me for quite a while. It's called Blank Check with Griffin and David. It's a movie podcast that dives into director's filmography. I showed up during the Sam Ramy series, specifically examining his 1995 masterpiece,

The Quick and the Dead. I'm such a fan of this podcast, and I had such a great time. And so I just thought I'd share this thing I love as a bonus episode with you. Just a warning, there are 78 curse words in this episode. So, and since it's their show, we decided to leave them as is.

You've been warned. Okay, enjoy. So, instances there show, we decided to weave them as is. You've been warned. Okay, enjoy. I'm so damn fast. I can wake up at the crack of dawn, rob two banks, a train, and a stage coach shoot the tail feathers off a duck's ass at 300 feet, record a three-hour podcast and still be back in bed before you wake up next to me. That's pretty good. Thank you. I was trying to figure out which one to replace with podcasts.

And that was like just ask the list. Just throw it in. Exactly. It makes it even more impressive, the brag. Yeah, totally. Yeah. I thought that was an okay young Leo, right? I thought it was pretty good. It kind of had that. It's the rhythm of, brag. Yeah, totally. Yeah. I thought that was an okay young Leo, right? I thought it was pretty good. It kind of had that. It's the rhythm of, right? Yeah. The ring of Titanic and Romeo and

Juliet that, well, not Romeo and Juliet, so much. But like that kind of like swaggery quality. I don't know how to describe it. It's funny how different and how much he is still the same It's funny how different and how much he is still the same from adult Leo to child Leo. You know, like this is, I'd say when you get to Titanic and Romeo and Juliet, right after this, right? Right after. That's when he's like a young man, right? He's become like a heartthrob.

This is maybe the last performance where he still feels like a kid. He's literally playing the kid. What do you feel like? He is playing the kid performance where he still feels like a kid. He's literally playing the kid. What do you feel like? He is playing the kid. Right, absolutely. He feels like a boy in this movie. Yeah, and he's about eight inches wide.

He's very little. He's very little. He's quite petite, yes. He's so little and delicate. And I feel like I think so much of the narrative around Leo was like his whole post Titanic square sazy jump was like, I need people to stop thinking of me as boyish, right? Like he went so out of his way to stop being floppy haired, stop being sort of like charming

and light and all that sort of stuff. But you still see so many kind of similar mannerisms and tricks, even in how he plays his most hard boiled people today. Yes, you do, but there was that, and it suits him. Yes. Obviously, in this, an intitantical thing, there's that sort of punky, I think I'm so special quality to these early performances that totally suits, like it's perfect casting here. Right, right. That he is maybe like whatever,

fully convinced that he's a movie star when you're like, well, you're not a movie star yet Leo, but now it's weird because he is a Leonardo DiCaprio. I know. It is one of the most fascinating things about watching this movie is like all the home media releases. And I imagine even just like the graphics they use on streaming sites and rentals or whatever

are sort of like the four of them at equal billing, right? Like Stone, Hackman, Crow DiCaprio. And then you watch the opening of this movie and it's like Stone hack man quick in the dead Russell Crowe names names names names names names names names names names names and Leonardo de caprio and they are the end yeah, I know I know there's a central quartet, but it's like the two guys immediately become the biggest fucking movie stars imaginable right after this movie.

And Hank Hackman has like six more years of being elder statesman before he retires. And Sharon Stone, this is one of the movies that I think causes Hollywood's sort of disregard her prematurely. Yes. Although, this is also, is this not her Oscar nomination year? Is it? Because Casino is 95, isn't it? Yes, Casino is 95.

But I mean, I think you're right that this is I mean I mean the there's a couple movies coming we can talk stone in a minute There's a few years coming up that I guess is the true nail in the coffin for her as a movie star But this will be definitely under perform go ahead. I think it's her blank check like she's real producer She's like she's coming up. That is my exact point. Yeah. Yeah. More than Ramy's. Ramy's is very confusing filmography for blank check purposes. This is for some concern. But she used a check to hire Ramy. Someone people thought of only for doing sort of junky, sci-fi, horror sort of pulp beef stuff. I don't think they would have been quick, no pun intended,

to hire him for this. She used her check for Crow, she used her check for de Caprio. Literally. Yeah, no, but like, right, exactly. This was really her thing. Got Sony to buy it for her. I do think you're right, David, that like casino feels like a coronation moment of like fine. We're going to respect you as a serious actress, but also now can you go away. There was a weird dismissal in the Casino nomination I find where people are like, okay, Scorsese got a good performance out of her. Yeah.

So the year after this, let's just dive right in. I have to give this piece of it. I know we have to choose the show in our guest. This blank check with Griffin and David. I'm Griffin. I'm David. And I'm Roman Mars. Now, wait a second.

You can't do that. Well, I know I was supposed to speak before I'm introduced, but I wanted to introduce myself before I was introduced. That's the one that you can't do on this show. That is brilliant, actually. Yes. You can speak before you're introduced, and you can make a good point,

which you did before you introduced. But you you can introduce yourself before you've been introduced. Well, I don't play it by your rules. No, look, you're your your podcast, the legend. I guess you could do what you want. Do you not immediately the second room and came on the Zoom, David feel like my voice sucks. Like the. But it wasn't.

I didn't even have. Griff, I didn't even have the, you know, I, the window in the front of my it I didn't even have Griff I didn't even have the you know I the window in the front of my I didn't have window open right I just heard the voice so right I just heard hello and I mean I can't even do it. I was like what the you know yes it really feels like I'm like a high school basketball player and like you know an NBA guy just walked in the locker room and I feel like, oh, I see. I feel like I'm the kid and fucking hackmonger just walk.

Yeah. Well, that makes the Roman sound scary in me. No, look, Griff, I want to say something about Sharon Stone right away. I want to say that it's a podcast about filmography, director's about massive success early on in the careers and giving a series of blank checks and make whatever crazy passion projects they want and sometimes those checks clear

and sometimes they bounce, pew, pew, baby. I shoot out, I couldn't think of a good, whatever. It's a mini series on the films of Sam Raimi. It's called Podcast Me to Hell. Today we're talking about his 1995 Western, the quick and the dead, which I think a lot of people don't know exist and I think a lot of people who know what exist don't realize it's a Sam Raimi movie,

which is bizarre because it is so much a same-ray movie. It is. And it should be called the Slaps and it's great. I don't know. Yeah, sorry. It's so good. The rules and it fucks. Yeah, exactly. But listen, speaking on Sharon Stone. Our guest today is Roman Mars of 99% of visible. He already introduced himself. Obviously Sharon Stone's early career is busting out of hit genre films like Turtle Reeng haul and then basic instinct and then sliver. Right. Like these are these are where she's making her name. This year she's got the quick and the dead, which we will talk

about today, but did not do that well at the box office. And she has Casino, which is an undeniable hit, maybe a little bit of a come down from like Goodfellas or what, but still she gets an Oscar nomination. I was going to say a hit, it's certainly a win for her, but it was like, oh, Scorsese made lesser Goodfellas was the tag at the time. Now in the next year in 1996, Griffin, she had two films. She had Diabali, the remake of Late Day Abali, Big Flop, which is a Big Flop, and she had a Bruce Barisford movie

called Last Dance that was also a Big Flop, right? Now, this is what I want to get to. There's a Golden Raspberry Award that existed for quite a while until from 1992 to 1999 called for the Golden Raspberry for worst new star. And she was nominated for it that year. And I saw that and I was like, what do you mean new star?

Sharon Stone, like she'd been around for a while. Like what were they thinking? So let me read you, Griffin, the five nominees for worst news star for the 1996 Golden Raspberry's, okay? Okay. Okay. These are rude to be quick. Yeah. No, I'm classic. I'm crazy. My self-uru-ness. Okay. Okay, here we go. All right. One and Ben's going to be mad. Beavis and Butthead and in Beavis and Butthead do America. What the fuck? Pretty rude. That's so undeserved, first of all. They're so cool.

Whoever made this list is such a nerd who doesn't like font. And the movie was a hit. Totally. And it was a hit. And it was a hit. And it was good as hell. Okay, so the next two are the guy from fucking unsolved mysteries, right?

Yeah, the voice unsolved mysteries. Sure. What is his name? I don't know, but that's a huge get as far as I'm concerned. That's your argument against a particular razzi. No, I think there are other arguments. I don't think you have other stuff. That's great too. It's got Hank Hill in it, I think there are other arguments. I don't think you have. There's other stuff that's great too. It's got Hank Hill in it. I mean, come on. Don't get me started. Robert Stack was it Robert Stack at the time. Yeah. Okay. Okay. So some other nominees.

Ellen DeGeneres was nominated for Mr. Wrong. I guess that was sort of the first Ellen Star vehicle. It didn't work out, right? That's that's more. Pretty disastrous movie. Yeah. Next, there's a group nomination for four friends cast members. So they're going after the friends cast members. So 96 would it be is Ed in there? Ed is in there. Matt LeBlanc. I feel like that's the one they're really going for. Yeah. Because the others are David Schwimmer in the Paul Barer. Right. Matt Reeves is directorial debut. Lisa Kudrow and mother, which is like a supporting role.

So that's a real stretch. And Jennifer Aniston and she's the one, which I feel like was a movie that everyone thought was okay. So they really should have just nominated Matt Leblanc in Ed. That would have actually been on target. Yes. Fair. Yeah.

Then they've got Pamela Anderson and Barb wire. Okay. Now, an obvious razzi thing, right? They just pick on the model slash act. Right, you know, like, but let's put a pin in that. I'm going to come back to that later. This is connected to a larger point.

I want to make going. Sure. And then the fifth nominee is Sharon Stone, but it's built as the new, quote unquote, serious Sharon Stone in Diabolican last dance. So they're basically, you know, stamping her with the like, don't try and fool us. Right.

Sharon Stone, you're not a serious actress. You're a genre actor. Last dance is a death row movie. Yeah. Right. She's, she's the one making the, the clemency case. She is on death row for murder and Rob Morrow is trying to save her From death row. You've also got Randy quay Peter Gallagher. Skeet Ulrich. Wow. I mean, I'm just I'm looking at

At this no, no, no, no, I'm just looking at after this right so 97 she doesn't make a movie 98 She's got sphere which is a flop it is good be a high profile flop what if there was a sphere sure she's got mighty which I think is viewed as another sort of failed Oscar bait movie for her yes although I quite a sweet film I haven't seen it since I was a teenager but I remember being yeah I remember being relatively fine uh gets a golden globe nomination for that. Right. She's kind of like a fake lead.

Like the kids are obviously the leads. She's the supporting mom, but yeah. It's billed as a Sharon Stone movie. Right. Then voice and ants. 99 is rough. 99 is the voice. 99 is the voice and ants.

Yeah. The glory remake. No one wants. Disasterous movie. Right. Lumet remaking Casavetti's only 15 years later, whatever it is. Bizarre, a bizarre choice. Yes. The muse, which she gets the Golden Globe win for that. And the story immediately becomes, she bought every member of the Hollywood

foreign press like a Rolex. And she bought her way to the award. It's an infamous sort of, this is how easily the Hollywood foreign press can be swayed story. Griff, way to the award. It's an infamous sort of this is how easily the Hollywood foreign press can be swayed story. Griff, here's the thing. She didn't even get the win. That was the nomination story. Are you kidding me? She lost to Janet McTier for tumbleweeds. Wow. The Golden Globes ordered all 82 members to return luxury gift watches that share a stone and or October films had sent. So yes, it became this embarrassing

like she didn't even earn the award, the nomination. She's pretty good in the muses, isn't she? That movies are all right. She is good, isn't it? Yeah, but like truly from that point on, she's done. Sympathico, if these walls could talk to picking up the pieces, which I think isn't even theatrically released, beautiful Joe, like these are like movies that do not exist. I know. By the time she's popping up in catwoman as the villain, yes, it's this like joky thing of like Sharon Stone, like remember her. And of course, she was famously attacked by a Komodo dragon. Yes. Right. That's the other thing. What's right. Yeah. Talking about she was like Ben Exactly. He's talking about exactly what he just said. She was attacked by a Komodo dragon. She told me. How big are those fucking things?

There's the biggest land animals or whatever. They're like 10 feet long or something. They're terrifying. They paid to close down a reptile house at a zoo so they could have a private tour, right? Yeah. Well, she was married to Phil Bernstein who was the editor-in-chief for, I don't know, something of the San Francisco Chronicle. So this is the local story that I knew of the time.

And they close down, I'm an East Bay guy. And I will correct you. I'm so sorry. I'm so sorry. You're're an SF guy. They close down, I'm an East Bay guy. Yeah, I will correct you. I'm so sorry, I'm so sorry. Wow, you're a Bay Area guy. Wow. And then, but I lived in San Francisco too, so I don't mean to be so rude about it. But they close down to get a special viewing

of the Komodo Dragon and actually, bit Phil Bernstein's foot. Right. And which is notable because the way that they kill things is they have this horrible mess of bacteria in their mouth. They don't actually like kill things by killing them, tromping them. They kill things by biting them

and then letting them fester and die and then eating later. Wait, that's kind of sick. That's so metal, actually, to be honest. They are very bizarre. I remember when you're a kid, I feel like you learn like, Commodo dragons are like the largest lizards that exist. And you hear like, that sounds awesome.

They're called dragons. And then you see them. And they just kind of look like big lizards. They're like, and you're a little disappointed. Like they don't even look like a crocodile or something cool. They just look like, and you, you, you never see them in comparison to anything. So they just kind of, say, it's tough to gauge size. That's the thing. I can't get any perspective on them. They just kind of look like lizards. Yeah. They're pretty big. They're pretty. They're low to the ground. Obviously.

What's there? There's a, there's a James Bond with the Komodo dragons in it. I think it's skyfall is the one where he's in Macau. And gets kicked into a Komodo dragon pit or whatever. Yeah, classic. It's always happening. But that is truly her biggest credit in that five year period, right? Between 99 and 2004, Catwoman, where they're repositioning it as

is this the sort of ironic comeback of Sharon Stone playing full camp. It's just news stories like that. And it's her going on the Golden Globes and giving a rambling speech and then any polar making fun of it. Like she just becomes this weird sort of pop culture figure who isn't even thought of as an actor anymore. And it sucks because she is so good. She is so good in this. She's so good in this. I think she's a very underrated star in general, not

by everybody, but by a lot. I think her 90s run is very strong and she took good risks. And certainly the story of this movie is her making a lot of correct creative decisions. Correct. She's handed some power and she uses it well. Yeah. I mean, when this movie came out, I was a 20 year old into movies. And so I saw it in the theater. I was very excited for this movie. And Sharon Stone was a thing I had to overcome to be excited about this movie.

Because I only knew her as basically distinct sliver, and I never saw those movies, but they just were distasteful for me as a like a snobby movie guy, you know, at the time. And yeah. And but now when I when I watch it and I at the time, I love this movie and it but now when I watch it, I'm just like, she's amazing in this movie. Yes. She's so good in this movie. She has incredible on screen presence. And I want I want more for her, like a time machine me wants more for her in her career than this. But when we were doing the Verhoeven series some years ago and watching a total recall and basic instinct back to back,

you're just like, how did within five years of basic instinct coming out all of Hollywood decide she is a joke? Like it just doesn't make sense. And it's not like that's a fluke performance, but I do think if I can circle back to the Pamela Anderson thing, right? Because the Razzis are dumb and they're rude. But they do, in their own stupid way, represent the sort of worst type of consensus opinion

around popular culture within eras, right? There are things that they do latch onto of just like, this is what the dumbest people feel. This is what they're reducing movements in pop culture too. And you look at a list like that, you look at a category like that, David, and two things I find run really, really strongly through the entire history of the Razzies is,

they hate things made for women. No, they absolutely do. Yeah. Right. They also look, they make fun of big dumb boy action movies. They hate Michael Bay and Silvester Stallone and whatever. But like, it does feel like movies that are specifically made for women. There's this attitude of the nerve, how dare you even try. What is this dumb shit? The other thing is they, they like hate anyone who too explicitly titillates them, right? Like I'm not saying Pamela Anderson is good and barbed wire, but there's this fury of how dare you make this movie where you show us your tits the whole time, right? And like they gave basic instincts so many fucking nominations. It is absurd. And it's like that is wild considering considering obviously the basic instinct.

Right. Oh my God. I'm realizing Sharon Stone was also nominated for worst new star in 1992. Exactly. For that. Right. It's like rejecting her before she has a chance to reject their nerdy asses. Right. Right. But it's like it's a Madonna and the horror thing of being like, how dare you be this sexy on screen? In this hyper sexual movie, that means I can't take you seriously.

You have to be frivolous. And then once she makes the shift to like, I'm ready to use my clout to make serious films, interesting films, they're like, how dare you try to be serious now? You fucking piece of shit, you know? Like the first time they give her a worst star for being in an erotic thriller,

and the second time they give her a worst star nomination for not being in erotic thrillers anymore. Because the run in between is her doing like sliverer and specialist and the movies that you would do after Basic Instinct, if that's the thing you wanna maintain. And the second she starts veering off from that, like the razzies get angry at her again. It's very interesting, you know, beyond the razzies though,

that like, I guess the roles, like quick and the dead is a great pick. That's sort of out of the ordinary in that she has actually identified a script with a very compelling female lead, right? That she can play. And she's like, cool, I'm going to do this. Casino, obviously, that's, of course, he tapping her at the absolute perfect time

for the absolute perfect role. She is such good casting in Casino. I love that performance. And then after that, things like Diaballi last dance sphere feels like her agents Hollywood, whoever being like, okay, let's find you more like steely ladies, right? Like, how can we class that up or how can we, you know, make that a list? And I just feel like the scripts aren't there. Here's the other thing. And this is totally superficial. But she cuts her hair, right? Yes. Everything pre casino long hair.

And then post casino, she has the look that I knew when I was a teen person, getting into a teen person, getting into movies. Sharon Stone always had short hair. She always had the like very short blonde hair in movies like The Mighty, not in Gloria obviously. She needs like the big, you know, but muse has it to me. Yeah. Yeah, sphere. obviously she needs like the big, you know, but Musey has it to Muse. Yeah.

Yeah, sphere like. And does that like kind of like put her in a weird like sort of post, you know, femme fatale box, I have no idea. I just I just feel like her image shifts and Hollywood gives up on her or something. I don't know. I don't know. Sharon's known things weird. No, but I mean, look, rum, as the person who saw this in theaters at the time, and as

you said, it's like there is that sense of even if her erotic thrillers or her more, you know, sexy roles were big hits that it was like, but we can't take that seriously. I also think on top of that and tell me if I'm wrong here, everyone was just making fun of her all the time. Like even when she was at the peak of her career, she was kind of like a classic, like Leno style punchline. Yeah, I think so. I think that's the nature of those erotic thrillers. Like make in the same way that you talk about the ranzis, it makes people like nervous and nervously make jokes and nervously like dismiss her because they're afraid of their feelings.

Right. Right. And then when she cuts the hair and it's like, wait, you're not trying to be a pin-up model anymore. Like you're not looking like the idealized form of a femme fatale, then people get angry at her again. It's a tragedy. What? It is. Her career.

But I also think that she probably, you know, she stepped away. She seems to have a lot of other interests. She's super smart, you know. And I'm pretty sure that part of her career was her choice too. I wouldn't take that away from her because she definitely made choices later on to not being things, I'm sure. Yes, I mean, she's talked about being really fucking fed up with everything. Why not?

Absolutely, why not? I mean, why not? Yeah, absolutely. Why not? And so, and especially because I think this is one of those ones where it is both, it is so quickly dead, it's so against the grain. Like, this is not the heyday of the Western. This is not, Sam Remy is not an established director, a list director. It is a strange role and she took all that stuff, but together and made this thing happen.

And it is the testament to how on it she was and how much she was not really just trying to take boxes and that kind of will Smith way of just like, okay, I'm going to study all of the box butchers of the world and I'm going to decide I'm going to make block butchers. She just made a cool ass movie with her power, which is awesome. She also put her neck out on the line successfully for two of the guys who were about to become made a cool ass movie with her power, which is awesome. You know? She also, like, put her neck out on the line successfully for two of the guys who were about to become two of the biggest leading men in Hollywood

and the man who had direct the first huge super hair franchise. It's amazingly prescient. It's stunning, yeah. It's funny for 1995, and I can get into some of the context and say, but like, when you think of Westerns, obviously, it was sort of a supposed boom for the 90s Western was to have had me write dances with Wolves, Wins Best Picture and then on for given Winfers Best Picture. And then you have

these movies like Geronimo, you have Tombstone, uh, why is Lickers city's like a city's like a huge one. Uh, like, and so in 1995, all the movies we just mentioned have come out. And not I would say a lot, most of the movies we just mentioned were hits, not wider, but not Toronto mode. Toronto was not the most of them are all hit. Yeah. And, and like like This I would say is right when the bloom is again off the roads like Hollywood's western come back really just last A few years yeah, and by 1996 the only big westerns I'm seeing here are from dust hill dawn, which is not count. That's a horror movie obviously, but it's got western Themes I guess western aesthetics. I love that movie to be clear. Loan star, which is like, you know, dark, neo-Western mystery, contemporary. And like that's basically it.

Like, I mean, this list has last man standing. I don't think of that as a Western really. It's like a prohibition movie. It's like gangsters. Yeah, but it's definitely in the style of these. I mean, it's like a prohibition movie. It's like gangsters. Yeah, but it's, it's definitely in the style of these. I mean, it's a remake of, it's a remake of, a Jimbo. A Jimbo and what's the, what's the western version of your Jimbo? I can't remember, but there's another one in between there.

And then by 97, it's like the postman. That's like the only western Hollywood. This is what I was gonna say though. Like, Costner is the guy who's like really working to bring the Western back. And by the second half of the 90s, he's kind of shifted more to sci-fi. Like postman is like Western sci-fi. He's done Westworld now or Waterworld rather, not Westworld.

You can sneak in horses and stuff in like the Mascazaro, you know, some wild, wild west, like something like that where it's like, it's not just a straight ahead western, but the quick and the dead is really stripped down in that it's like, here we are in a town. There's a mean sheriff. There's guys. There's a saloon. Everyone's got guns.

This is not about like the American experience, you know, in the west at all. It's about like, what if there was a town where everyone's job was cowboy who shoots you, right? Like, you know, there's no like economics that work. No, it's like, it's like fucking like karate kid part two with shootouts or whatever. But, but also, yes, you have Gene Hackman doing a western for the first time since he won an Oscar for playing the bad guy in a western. Which was just like three years ago. What was that log of a? It is really funny to me the juxtaposition of those two characters which are basically the same character. Yeah, but one of them is like serious with serious motivations where you can see he's a

good guy or maybe at one point in his life was a good guy who went down a very, very dark path or maybe at one point in his life was a good guy who went down a very, very dark path and the Herod character in this one where he's just a cartoon villain. And they're both so good. I know. I like both performances so very, very much. And it makes me think that maybe Gene Hagwin

is the best actor of all. There's a solid argument. And he's when I hear someone suggest that it's hard to shoot it down. Like you, he's at least in that very, very upper realm of debate. The whole thing with Gene Hackman is he could absolutely just give you Gene Hackman, right? Like if I just called him up and I was like, you're going to play kind of like a gritty, tough guy in this who doesn't take a lot of shit.

And you're maybe going to have a mustache. He would be like, you know, play kind of like a gritty tough guy in this who doesn't take a lot of shit. And you're maybe gonna have a mustache. He would be like, you know, that would be fine. And so you could be fooled into thinking like, yes, Gene Hackman was a great movie star, but he kind of just did his thing. And then you'll see something like Get Shorty, one of my favorite Gene Hackman performances ever, where he plays like a quivering buffoon, like an absolute idiot, Cuck great character, so funny. And then you're like,

Jean Hackman secretly could do anything. And like, and like, that is why, yes, there's an argument that he is the greatest actor in Hollywood history, I think. I think he's, there's an argument. You never hear horrible things about him. He's sort of like, he like he just is able to do. Everyone said, and I think he's admitted in the years since he retired and chilled out.

He was incredibly difficult. Oh, okay. That he was not a friendly man. I'm not using like language to screw around it, but I feel like even like when they've done Royal Tannenbaum's retrospectives, and that's like his second or third to last movie ever, they all say like he's not pleasant. Like he's very intense and he's angry, which look is his superpower on screen. Like he is better at harnessing anger. Oh, he's so good.

He's so good. His levels of anger are fantastic. Yeah. I like his sort of growly anger. And I like his, like, when he gets, you know, upset. It's like, like, when he gets in his red shirt, he goes, you're not faster than me. You know, like, it's really up here.

Like, I just fucking love it. Yeah, you are dead right, though, Roman, that, like, the facility in just sort of, him understanding the difference in just sort of, him understanding the difference between these two characters, you know, this character and the character and unforgiven, that on paper are very similar. And the difference is the sort of shifts he makes in energy modulation and performance style to fit into each movie and the demands of that narrative properly.

It's totally different. Cause I was coming in, so I watched a quick and the dead and unforgiven for this, Oh wow. For this little broadcast here. And I was like, because I was gonna make the case that they were the same character. And they are not, they are very, very different.

And it's all comes from the way Jean Hackman plays it, not how necessarily how they're written. It is surprising that he was cast because of what you're just the super special connection. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Right. It's the kind of thing we're studying. Studios are both like, let's just have them play Little Bill again. But also you wonder if that's a deterrent if audiences can be turned off by seeing something they've already seen. Right. But, um, but they're totally different. I mean, it takes a minute to notice it in a way, or you have to really be paying attention to it. The same way I think you have to notice

all the incredible things I think Sharon Stone is doing. Like, she's one character in the very beginning. She is playing a character of what is, what if Clint Eastwood was this role, but it's a woman playing it. And then Herod shows up. It freaks her the fuck out so much that every moment after that, she's twitchy, she experiences her trauma all the time. You see it in her face, you see it in the movement. Like they really train on her reactions in her face.

And I think it's brilliant. I think it's brilliant choice. I think it's a brilliant way that she plays it. And it really is about a person being affected by another person that changes their whole facade. And I think that the way they interact together is incredibly well done. I think you see how much you learn from working

on those for Hover movies about not needing to be realistic, right, or naturalistic in her performances that she can do something more expressionistic not needing to be realistic, right? Or naturalistic in her performances, that she can do something more expressionistic to better suit the tone, the mood, the genre. It's sort of make bigger statements because so much of a character is this sort of, I mean, this entire movie comes out of this like, if you were to just have the man with no name be a woman, how does that change the dynamic of every scene, right? And so she's playing with that very consciously

of when she needs to play the emotions of the character, when she needs to play the iconography of what she's representing. And it's, yeah, it's like really impressive work. And Hackman is able to make this entirely different character from Little Bill. Despite not doing any obvious actory things, it's not like he said, I want a prosthetic nose

and a mustache with the character's different. I'm gonna do a different voice. I'm gonna call this some tick to make him really unique. It's just emotional modulation and knowing exactly what movie he's in and what role he needs to serve within that story. You guys know Hackman lived with like Dustin Hoffman and who was the other, other devol right back in

the day in New York, right? The original pussy posse, yeah. That, but like imagine living with him, even young hackman, like who's maybe has less gravitas, yeah, or what, you know, and like you ate his cheese out of the fridge or like just imagine like having a roommate conversations, they to me, chills me to my bone. Yes, yes, like try and ask him to do the dishes like. Exactly like, um, when you come home and I,

Yeah, slam the door, it's waking me up, like whatever. I mean, the other thing is he just, he always looked like that. Yeah. You know, he just like had jean hackman face and had that voice. Yeah, he just had, like, a G'd-Hackman face. He had that voice. Yeah. Yeah, young Gene Hackman is very, very hard to picture.

Obviously, there's sort of like night moves, Gene Hackman, right? Like, sort of, like, middle Gene Hackman with the stash where he just looks exactly the same. You look at young Gene Hackman, you're like, yeah, I get it. Like I get that that makes sense. But he's like a little, he's, he's bulkier in French connection, which is his, yeah, and he's a little sausage. You see, you see it with a little hat and a little jacket.

Like, yeah, he's, yeah, he's not a trim guy intimidating. Yeah, that's basically it. He's intimidating, but I think one of his reasons why, like I have such reverence for him, is because he was never quite that lean man style. Yeah. He was able to be the best part in so many movies. Well, he can be big, he can be smaller.

I mean, he didn't just do so much, and I kind of like all of it. I agree, he's fascinating because he can selflessly take on a supporting role or a villain role or be a mentor character or whatever it is and be the most interesting part of the movie. And then whenever he was placed at the top of the movie to play the plot driver,

he also somehow remained the most interesting person in the movie. Like he never collapsed under the weight of that sort of narrative responsibility or needing to be the leading man type or any of that. There's a story, I think I sent this to you and the Doe Boys David. We were texting about how good Hackman is.

And I sent you guys that clip of Kevin Costner on the Rich Eisen show talking about Hackman. Did you watch that? Maybe. What's the, there was whatever thriller the two of them did together. Hackman and Costner, pretty early in Costner's. Oh, no way out.

Yeah, good way out. Yes, yes. So they were talking about on that movie, Costner was coming in pretty hot, right? Like he is a man with a lot of opinions and he was very ready to be a leading man and a director and all of that. So they're doing all these scenes

and I think he was saying that like most of his scenes with Hackman were in like office rooms behind a desk and they didn't feel very dynamic. I've never seen this movie but that he was behind a desk for most of his scenes with Hackman were in like office rooms behind a desk and they didn't feel very dynamic. I've never seen this movie, but that he was behind a desk for most of it and that he got to set and was sort of like, this is boring. We should do this, move this chair, stand up, change the block, and whatever. And was just being very opinionate with everything. Roger Donaldson was sort of pushing back on him.

He was really being stubborn about like, I finally become a leading man. Like, I don't want to blow it. I don't want to be lazy. I don't want to rest on my laurels. I want to make every scene as dynamic as I can. This is Gene Hackman. This is one of my idols.

And Hackman was just sitting there like silently the entire time as these fights were happening. And then would just wait for them to settle and would do whatever they landed on, right? And at the end of the day, and costume was like, I don't know if I pissed him off. I don't know what's going on here. And at the end of the day, Hacman stops him when he's like walking out of his trailer to get to his car and he goes like, Hey, kid.

And Costner, Kevin Costner was like Jean Hacman's about to chew me out. Like it is terrified of Jean Hacman, even at peak physical Kevin Costner, right? And it's just like, this guy's going to fucking destroy me. And Costner goes up to him and he is like, you know, I had a bad divorce and I had to take some movies I didn't really want to do and pay my settlement. I think I sort of forgot what I like about doing this and watching you today fight for that. It reminded me of when I was a young actor and I cared about every single choice. So thank you for that.

Well. And he liked walked off and then Hackman has like a golden period right after that. Huh. Yeah. It's true. Passes the, he, he, he, he like reignites the torch. Sorry. Yeah.

It's like when Hackman, because I feel like why Hackman won an Oscar for unforgiven. I mean, obviously, he's really good in unforgiven. It's a perfect supporting act, but it was also kind of the Oscars being like, you still got the juice buddy, like, or what, you know, like, it's that rediscovery thing. Yeah. I mean, I think his 80s were not particularly great outside of Hoosiers and Costner says that Hoosiers, I think came out when they were shooting No Way out. Yes, right. And Adam was like, I gotta be honest, I didn't know what we had.

I thought that was a piece of shit and I didn't think I was giving it my all. He's incredible in Hoosiers, but it's obviously a very quiet internal performance. Yeah. But Hacken by his own admission was like, I feel guilty by how much I wasn't respecting that movie and appreciating it while we were making it.

I feel like he did a lot of stuff for money, right? Like he's in Super Men 4, that's kind of embarrassing. He did a lot of shit. It kind of like- Well, like, Uncommon Valor was a movie that was like a hip, I wasn't respected. Like, he did a lot of, the 80s, this was what he was saying. He had like a't respected. Like he did a lot of the 80s. This was what he was saying. He had like a bad divorce and he did a lot of movies for money.

And it's not like in the 90s, he did all jambs. Like he did a little bit. But I mean, God, this year he has quickened to dead Crimson Tide and get shorty. It's his 95. Well, I just feel like even though he's in movies that don't turn out to be great, he always comported himself. Well, where it's like even though he's in movies that don't turn out to be great, he always comported himself. Well, I don't think this stink of a bad movie ever really

stuck to him, which is part of the grace of not being a Dustin Hoffman or Robert De Niro, or like that. He gets to be good in things and be respected. But I don't know, like he doesn't take, I don't remember him in those bad movies. No, and I also think, I mean, David, we've talked about like the Tommy Lee Jones phenomenon where Tommy Lee Jones is another actor whose superpower is like anger, right? And so when he's giving anger, right, right.

And like disgust and distaste for everything around him. When he's giving a movie his all he's incredible and when he hates that he's in a movie, he's incredible because his actual disregard his movie or action translates. So I think like whatever period Regina Hackman's heart was maybe in it a little less, the performances were still really fucking compelling. And then I think in the 90s he started just being like putting his heart fully back into everything. And then yes, even when he was taking paycheck jobs, he's like over-delivering on all of it. Uh, God, he's so good. He is good. The quick and the dead is good. This film is directed by Sam Rehab. And boy was it directed.

It really was. It directed this shit out of this shit. Look, I love Sam Raimi. And I love this movie. And I love how he directed it. But it is that kind of thing. Like when I was 12 years old and I was trying to understand what is a director?

How can I watch a film and understand how it was directed? This would be a good entry level where you're like, did you notice there are a few subtle choices? How the story was told? That's sort of Sam Raimi's fingers that you're these little fingerprints that you're noticing here, right? You notice that gun floating across the screen for no reason. That's a very Sam Raimi move right there. You watch this movie, you're like,

it was he the only guy who watched the man with no name, trilogy, and during all the shootouts and standoffs was like, come on, let's blow some juice and not enough stuff happening. Right. I love it. I think it's like, it's weird that Western, which is often kind of an excuse to kind of have a movie do nothing

except for just have Vista's being in display, that he takes that and just like pours Sam raeminess into it in a way that is like, I find so compelling, like I really love it. It's like, I would never put it together that these like succession of shootouts is the perfect use of his superpower, but it totally is. It's just a video game of like, of a boss level, like, you know, like continued like series of boss level fights that allow him to like do, can't at angle, that just, you know, flips all the way over or the jaw, the jaw is like pull back angle sort of thing.

And he just does every single fight is different. He's like, it's so good. It is a thing. He is as every tool in the toolbox, he doesn't repeat himself. And the other thing with him is for how loud his directing style is. I don't think there's a single thing in this movie that is like the flash or style for its own say. Like every choice he makes as loud as it is is in support of trying to convey the emotion of that moment with the most sort of extreme amount of energy, which for a film that is very, very clean and simple and straightforward, plot-wise,

it does help a lot. I totally agree. And I think that also the emotion stays with it. I mean, there's some key emotional moments that are played sincerely and you feel them sincerely. They are not a joke. And it's a really delicate balance to strike. And he does it. I think throughout this movie, which is why I think one of the reasons why I think it's a real triumph. I agree with everything you guys are saying, but I think that at the time critics did not agree. Oh, absolutely. The popular reaction was this movie is all flash.

You know, it's all sizzle, no steak, and I'm not getting any emotion and Sam Remy can't fucking calm down, right? Like that was the hit at the time. Well, so all the Westerns you're talking about in this sort of like 90s, late 80s, 90s wave, right? That is dying at this moment. All of them are like very austere. They are the steige adult revisionist Westerns by and large that have like a simplicity

to their filmmaking style. And this is a popcorn movie. Right. I would say to tombstone is the trashiest of those 90s westerns. It's not nearly as sort of fizzy as this movie, but tombstone obviously definitely a little more, a little less austere. And then city slickers was not the most austere work. But of course, I'm joking when I include city slickers and all this. But but truly was not the most austere work, but of course I'm joking when I include city slickers in all this. But but truly city stickers is more austere, cinematically than this is like city slickers are

very sacram. Yes, I would say that most things are more austere than that. Yeah, it's a low bar, but yes, it absolutely is. Yeah, so quick and the dead, even though it has actors from one forgiven and it has like The aesthetics that the look not not the way the camera's moving But you know the the frontier town and the costumes and all that that would feel very recognizable. Yes, it is aesthetically Completely different from all the other westerns people are seeing so maybe that through people off like Too goofy. I'm looking at Jean Hackman here. I forgot that in between unforgiven and quick of the dead,

he is also in white herb and geronimo. Yeah, no, he other movies we've been he would sign on. Yeah, he would sign on. He's still like money. Yes, he loved it. I remember this being a flop or being a critical flop as it was completely confounding to me. Like, as I saw it, and I just like, well, that's one of the greatest movies I've seen this year. And I mean, I think that one of its, the other thing that was going on is like you're, you're kind of in the pulp fiction, you know,

I, ironic, like this, this is a pastiche in an interesting way of Sergio Leone, but it's also not ironic, it's not me. It's not I rot, spirit. No. It has a real sincerity to it that I think also short-circuited the kind of cinephile reaction to it too.

Like it had, it didn't get embraced by any group of movie goers at the time. And I just, I don't know why it was this a big fat me-pull for me. Yeah, it was a February release. Like, I feel like that's kind of a weird dumping from Sony and like, the whole thing is just kind of neither. It's like, well, this is an expensive movie of movie stars. Is this an Prestige project?

No. Is it for families? Definitely not. Oh, okay. You know, like the options are kind of narrowing. Is it for families? Definitely not. Okay. The options are kind of narrowing. It's only a war domination is a Saturn award for best actress. That's it. For her.

Wow. From Dusteldon is the year after this. And that's what you're talking about, Roman. That's the Western that is now speaking to the post-Tarantino generation by being written by Tarantino, hostarring Tarantino, and 30 minutes in being like, just kidding, we're not a western. Right. And to be clear, I adore that.

Same. The whole joke of that movie is that it stops being a western. And it's, you know, right. Anyway, the quick and the dead, let me give you guys some context, okay? Please. All right, so this one's written by Simon Moore, who at the time is best known for the TV

mini series Traffic with a K. How would you know that? Traffic is spelled with an IC in the United States of America where we all have lived our entire lives. In 1989, there was a British mini series for Channel 4 in it called traffic. Are you talking like that, David? Yeah, this is very odd. It doesn't sound right, actually. No. Famously turned into the film traffic by Steven sort of worked many years later.

I'm assuming none of you have ever seen it. I have never seen the film. Sorry, the mini series. Sorry. I'm not saying any of those series. Well, David, how would we have seen it? I don't think it aired in the United States until... It actually, 2000s. No, it aired on masterpiece theater in 1990.

It was a very big deal. Well, how would you know that? I'm reading Wikipedia. I've never seen traffic. Despite having lived in England for a very... He's like, we're getting very close to something. I said it. I said it. What?

No, it's funny when you look at traffic because obviously the Soda Rig movie was about the cartels, right? And all that, you know, like it was about Mexican direct dealing and so on and so forth. But the British movie was about heroin dealers, I think, and it was about like Afghan and Pakistani growers and all that, right?

Like it's funny how it got transposed. Anyway, that thing was a big deal. So I guess Simon Moore gets kind of brought out to Hollywood where it's like, okay, buddy, what do you got? And he had written a movie called Under suspicion. He writes and turns into a movie, right? Did he direct it as well? He did direct it. Which I've never seen. Hilarious, Of course, Gene Hackman later started a different film called under suspicion. That is not what we're talking about. We're talking about the Liam Neeson, Laura Sanjiakomo, like kind of sex thriller, which I've never seen. It is funny. Sometimes when you like troll through IMDB, like that, and you find a movie

where it just feels like four things pulled out of a hat. You're like, you're gonna be tri and you're slapping magnets on the board. You're like Liam Neeson, Fox, Laura, San Jacamo. Is that a movie? Yeah, right. It just sort of sounds like something that would have happened in 1991. Like, what are you gonna check?

Like, that sounds bad. What do I call it? I don't know, under suspicion or something. So Simon Moore basically is like, I loved spaghetti westerns. I loved the, you know, Sergio Leone style western. I loved the Mexican standoffs. And I was just like, what if there was a movie that was all that cool? We cut everything else out.

And it's just shoot out after shootout. The princess bride. A fact, you know, the kind of, yeah, take all the good stuff. So smart. It is quite smart. And he wanted to do it. Spit Gideost Western style. He was going to direct it himself.

He was going to like go out to Italy, you know, try and get like $4 million, right? From some studio. And basically what happened was eventually Sony, who had turned down the idea of the movie with him directing, calls him and they're like, we'll buy it for a lot of money. Like we will, you know, turn it all around. And he true, like I think he didn't even know what script they were talking about because he was so confused. Like I guess he had several scripts out.

And then like the way he puts it is like it was a Frank Capra moment where you're, you know, like where he was like, I'm never going to have any success. I'm always going to be poor. And he got the phone call and like that was it. It was like all the money in the world and he was like his whole life changed. Sure, what happened?

Was that because Sharon Stone had found the script? Was Sony buying it to try to lower Sharon Stone to the Sharon Stone ask Sony to buy it? Yes, basically, I think the, and it sounds like classic Hollywood stuff, which is like, Sony calls him and they're like, we want the script and it sounds like classic Hollywood stuff, which is like, Sony calls him and they're like, we want the script, we'll pay top dollar. And he's like, what do you want to do with it? And he's like, we can't tell you.

Sony, you know, like, won't reveal any of that. And then eventually, they are like, so, yes, we're going to, this is going to be a star vehicle for Sharon Stone, and she wants Sam Remy to direct it. And Simon Moore was like, wait, that sounds great. I love Sam Raimi. Like, I think like they maybe assumed that he would be like, Sam Raimi, like, forget that. And he was like, Sharon Stone. Yeah, yeah. And he did the re-writes.

Like, basically, they never took the script away. Like, uh, oh, no, I'm sorry. No, they did eventually take the script. There's the uh, oh, no, I'm sorry. No, there's the John sales thing. Right. Yeah, right. For a while, he's he's working on it for them. And then one day they fired him and they brought in John sales. And he beefed up the script to a two and a half hour movie. Jesus. Well, it's so funny that you mentioned Loanstar, which is John sales written and directed that came out at the same time, which is almost like if you could have a polar opposite Western from Quick and the Dead,

it's probably Loan Star, which is a movie I fucking adore. Like I love it. That movie is fantastic. Phenomenal. But certainly it is not a pointbuster tin straight. Exactly. It is a slow and interesting film.

And what's interesting about it from the way I read it is that I think they brought in sales because they were like, this thing might be a little too popcorny. Can he add some like serious Western gravitas to it? Right. And then he does that by adding an hour on to the runtime, which they're like, this thing is overblown now. So then they bring more back to rewrite sales as draft. And what he did was just hook out all the sales stuff and they went, great, you fixed it. So he was like, essentially what they made was the first script from before

they fired me. What a waste. I mean, it is like Griffin, you and I have heard stories like this. Absolutely. About Hollywood production where they ruin a script trying to fix it and then like turn back around to the like, hey, can you fix it? Right. And the answer isn't, hey, can we go back to your original draft? It's, hey, could you come back and change your change script so that we like it again? Like they, they, they, they can never admit the mistake enough that they're actually like, you know, well, let's go to draft eight instead of draft 47.

Draft eight was actually when it was good. Like they just have to keep going. They feel like it has to be an additive process. And especially in this day and age, you can just be like, go to my email from February. There's a draft that is dated. There's a story I remember hearing about an uncredited writer who I think he a bad person. I'm not a bad person. I'm not a bad person. I'm not a bad person. I'm not a bad person. I'm not a bad person. I'm not a bad person.

I'm not a bad person. I'm not a bad person. I'm not a bad person. I'm not a bad person. I'm not a bad person. I'm not a bad person. I'm not a bad person. I'm not a bad person.

I'm not a bad person. I'm not a bad person. I'm not a bad person. I'm not a bad person. I'm not a bad person. I'm not a bad person. I'm not a bad person. I'm not a bad person.

I'm not a bad person. I'm not a bad person. I'm not a bad person. I'm not a bad person. I'm not a bad person. I'm not a bad person. but they were just sort of like, this whole movie doesn't make sense. This is like, hey, what are you talking? She come every day and have so many notes on the scene. This and that, I want this and I want more of that. And at some point, this writer just cut like 90% of her dialogue out and was like, because the studio was just sort of like, she's becoming like a nightmare. We just like can't solve this.

And she's holding everything up. Can you just like can't solve this. She's holding everything up. Can you just like cut her dialogue down? So she's got as little to do in every scene as possible. And he comes to set the next thing. He's like terrified. They're just gonna, Alba's gonna chew him out. She runs up and gives him a kiss and a hug. And she's like, finally, someone cracked my character.

Not present. All they did was just remove. Wow. It's look, I'll say this is someone who writes professionally for living. Sometimes, you know, you'll turn into a story and you're like, I want this, this, this, this, and this. And you'll like make one change. And it'll be like, yeah, I love it.

It looks great. Like, you know, like it's sometimes it's just some weird vibe thing. It's, it's, it's so bizarre. I don't know. It is a mystery of editing. I edit for most of my life is focused around editing, and it is weird how much of it is like we work on it, work on it, and the answer is, let's just cut that completely. I'm in more here says that a specific concern the studio had was the repetitive

nature of the movie. Like it's just gunfight after gunfight. Is this isn't this going to be boring? Ramy solves that. Yeah, like I guess I understand that concern in theory, but like it's mortal combat boring. No, we love this street fighter board. No, you mother fuckers. I mean, I think something that's very important is that you make every character, even if

they're a little character, really pop. Yeah. If it was just a bunch of anonymous villains who are getting shot off the screen because you know, Sharon Stone is not going to die until, you know, like, then sure, it, maybe that would be an issue. But Sam Remy is like, no, there will not be one face that you do not remember in this movie. Yeah.

It reminds me, it's sort of like when we make radio, which is my only context for this, I don't do anything visual at all, is like, if you can read a script and it functions the same as the audio product, then you didn't actually make radio. You know, like, you shouldn't be able to read it and have it be the same. And so if you read it, you know, and that's what it's added with all visuals and all the tricks and all the cool things with it. It's just like, they made a true movie

because if you read the script of it, you'd be like, well, that's dumb. You know, like that doesn't do enough, but it shouldn't, you know. Yeah, no, yeah, not only does he have sort of unique visual ideas for each gunfight and is, are those ideas uniquely paired to each gunfight, not arbitrarily applied for the sake of variety, right? But also, as you sort of said, David, it's like, we got to get through a lot of characters

fast. How do you characterize them fast? How do you cast great character actors? People that will be... It's got to have through a lot of characters fast. How do you characterize them fast? How do you cast great character actors? People that will be... That's good. Has a scar. Right, we'll be with them. Has a scar.

How do you style them specifically? Like all of this shit. It truly is though. Like I've been listening to so much, Dead Eyes, our friend Conor Ratless podcast and so much of that, is talking about the weird, when he talks all these other actors, when you lose parts or gain parts

or how people gain parts and the weird ass interests of casting. And part of it is like a movie like this where Sam Rainey has to make sure that every person looks distinctive, right? Has a different voice, has a different name, has a different gimmick. Is it an actor who we all know?

So we got the shorthand of that's Keith David, or is it a guy who you make like be named Ratsby and you kind of give him fucking rap for that? Or like ace in his cards and it's it is so it is so Mike Tyson's punch out like I'm 10 years old and you're to my video game references or slightly over reference, but it's like it's very much just like this is the guy that does let me go dancing and so he has the name flamenco in his name you know like it's, it's right with one for one.

But it's a very smart understanding of how what the audience is going to need to hold on to in order to be able to stick with this movie. Yeah. Because when it starts, it's like, wow, you're introducing a lot of characters in the first five minutes. You know, yeah. You're like, you track of this. Right.

What complicated spider web narrative. Right. And then you're just like, yeah, they're like, you track of this right? What complicated spider web narrative right? And then you're just like, yeah, they're all going to be on chalkboard. We're just introducing me all now and then there's going to be a tournament one by one that will get shot down. So Sharon Stone, as we said, is the producer of this movie along with the star. She picks this movie because she likes the, you know, role that's been written here. It's unusual. She likes the idea of a woman with no name, right? She had, it guess been mogul enough on sliver and said that she like rolled over a lot there. Like she was trying not to step on toes or whatever. And that movie, you know, didn't do amazing. I mean, sliver's sort of like

a trash masterpiece, I guess of the early 90s, so there's sort of like a trash masterpiece. I guess of the early 90s, but it's not like a well-received film. No, and was certainly right, not well-respected. So this is her like, I am putting my foot down like movie, right? Like this is where she has all the, she's calling the shots and she's like, I'm not fucking this around. Like just because you like a big thing she cites is that someone, some people quote, who shall remain nameless, wanted her to wear a dress when she rides into town. And she was just like, we're not doing that.

I am not going to be sexy in whatever way you, like whatever normal way you think for this movie. They actually shot a sexy that got removed. With her and Crow, I must have been, It's not clear. It's not sighted. Yeah. Where would that have happened? Yeah. Outside. Yeah. You always chained up to the phone. Wait, is that where we moved down? And of course, she got to pick her director and she picks Sam Raimi. And it's sort of a weird thing because Sam Raimi,

I don't think he's ever directed a movie at this point that he didn't write, right? Like this is his first kind of four higher job. Uh, correct. And the main thing I read that she hired him off of was Army of Darkness. That was the Army of Darkness, right? And like, Sam Raimi, not only, this is the thing,

had basically never worked with a big actor before because like Liam Neeson and Darkman is not like that famous at that point. No, it's pre fucking chinlers list like this is the first time he's working with established movie stars. And then everything else is like literally his friends like you know that it's almost what's most impressive to me about this movie is that like crime wave was obviously such a sort of knockback for him. But how well he transitions to like new budget level working with established movie stars in a new genre in a studio system with a script he didn't develop. And it's just seamless. It feels as personal as any of his earlier films and it feels as of a piece. seamless. It feels as personal as any of his earlier films and it feels as of a piece. Bruce Campbell, I think does actually have a tiny role in this movie, but he was, Remy wanted him to have a bigger role, one of the gunfighters, obviously, but he was shooting

Briscoe County, Jr. So he was on a good reason, at least. Yeah, it is a good reason. But he should have been one of these guys. He absolutely. I mean, he's any one of these roles is made for him, basically. Absolutely. I mean, he's any one of these roles is made for him, basically. And he's very nice in that kind of Ramyway where he's like, this is Simon Moore's thing. Like, it's a great script. 90% of it is him. Like, good job by him. I just wanted to do a good job, like putting it on screen. Like, he, I think he, as someone who had never directed another person script before, was very deferential to the script. What a manch.

He is a bit of a manch. He had a good time working with Sharon Stone. Guess who he had a tougher time working with. Jean Hackman. That's correct. Things were a little difficult. He says, Jean, very strict. Reminded me of an elementary school principal teacher called Mr. Little.

Just that was kind of cool actually. He was shooting Jaronimo. Sam Raimi goes to meet him and he says, Sam, tell me about the picture. At that point, I would shoot myself and piss my pants. If Jean had to just said, tell me about the picture. I would be like, no, I won't. I will commit suicide in front of you. By the way, he said that with a gun, a loaded gun cough to Sam Ramey's talk. Tell me about

the picture. So Sam says he talked for about 15 minutes and he was kind of just like, and then Hackman says, tell me about my character, Herod. Does he love the kid or not? Talking about the Capriote. Yeah. And Sam Ramey's like, well, of course he does. That's why he's so mean to him all the time. And Gene Hackman apparently nods and goes like, and then there's no further discussion because then he accepts the part. But I guess like that was Gene Hackman's sort of weird test was like, do you understand this character in the way I want you to or something? Do you do you know that Brian Cox succession thing? Either of you. He plays, I know he plays the role of Logan Roy and succession.

He does. Okay, that's a little asking. It's a little trivia fact I found out I'm D.B. I didn't know if you know. Um, no, what's Jesse Armstrong when he was, uh, I get, maybe he had taken the part already. They were meeting with him. They hadn't started filming though, right?

And he said to Jesse Armstrong, like, I just have the one question for you. I can do all my work. I'm not going to pester you with shit. The one question I just need to know before I can play this part. And either answer is fine, but I need to know what your definitive answer is. Does he actually love the kids or not? Right. And I wonder how much the hackman thing was like a test versus him being that kind

of very practical actor where he's like, I just need you to tell me which it is. And I can tell you whether or not I can get my head around playing this guy. I do get the sense that right, Brian Cox is a fairly practical actor. Yeah. In what is it? Because obviously he does a lot of weird crap. Right. I mean, no offense to him. Because my favorite thing, I mean, I haven't read the Brian Cox book yet. I'm going to. But obviously, you know, everyone's heard that that book is him being like, you know, and Jeremy Irons, what a hack. I hate it.

And he's 10 paragraphs and all the shitty spin. And it's like Brian Cox, you've done like 40 movies that no one's ever heard of that are like, you know, you yelling at Gary Olman on a submarine and then you walk off with money in bags. They didn't even, they forgot to come down to the movie. Like you, you're handed some like aluminum that you can go, you know, barter with it. Like right, like, you know, it's just weird that Brian Cox is such a hack and yet also so comfortable calling everyone out. And I love him to be clear. The last chapter of the book by the way, David, because you said you haven't read it yet. Haven't read it yet. The last chapter of the book, by the way, David, because you said you haven't read it yet. Haven't read it yet.

The last chapter of that book is him calling you out for not having read the book. He knows. He knows. He knows. Classic. He's sitting around doing fucking podcast. Read my book, God damn it.

Fuck off. He's fucking. He's so gene hacken.man, again, this may not, this may stun you guys to hear, was not super into ZamRamie's style of filming. Very technical, complicated setups, many takes. As he says, he cuts the film in the camera to some degree, meaning that he never lets a master scene run through.

So I guess that's Hacman saying, like, why don't you just point the camera at me and let me be Gene fucking Hacman? And Sam Raimi's like, no, no, no, no, no, I want to do this and then I want to do this and then, you know, like, I know, I, I, I, it has to be exactly this way, or else the studio's gonna not like,

you know, let me do it, right? You know, so I'm sure he got on his nerves, yes. It is a reason why I think, I, I, look, I don't know what his technique is with actors by and large, but I do think Sam Raimi doesn't get enough credit for how good the performances are in his movies, considering how difficult his style of filmmaking is for performances.

And I think part of that is he casts very well and even if he wasn't getting along well with Hackman, Hackman is so fucking good in this and especially we'll get to it. But the moment after the shootout with the kid, he plays that in such a fascinating way. That's not Hackman like pulling a scene off of the shelf that he's done before. You know? Yeah, I mean, that's seen as the best scene in the movie. I think I'm just a lot of good scenes of this movie. Can I read this thing? You were talking about David, the terror of imagining living with

Jean Hackman as a struggling actor. I'm just on his Wikipedia. So his one of his main jobs at that period of time living with a Hoffman in DeVal was that he worked at a Howard Johnson and Times Square. So if you think it's scary to be his roommate, imagine having to order ice cream from Jean Hackman at a fucking diner. But he, one of the people he served at that restaurant was previously one of his instructors at the Pasadena Playhouse who said that him working at Howard Johnson was proof that he wouldn't amount

to anything. Hmm, damn. Damn. Wow. Jesus. Yes. And then a marine, he had been a marine. He enlisted the Marines when he was 16 years old. He lied about his age. Well, he probably looked 47.

Absolutely. Is that the thing he had to lie? Yeah, he's 24 in this movie. But he lied about his age at 16 to enlist in the Marine Corps for four years as a field radio operator, right? So he's had this Pasadena playhouse guy tell him you're not gonna amount to anything and then a year or two later He's working as a door man and the former Marine officer his former commanding Marine officer said officer, his former commanding marine officer said, Hacman, you're a sorry son of a bitch. And there's this quote from Hacman here where he talks about how much everyone dismissed

him at that time. And he said, it was more psychological warfare because I wasn't going to let those fuckers get me down. I insisted with myself that I would continue to do whatever took to get a job. It was like me against them. And in some way, unfortunately, I still feel that way. But I think if you're really interested in acting, there is a part of you that relishes the struggle. It's an arctic in the way that you're trained to do this work and nobody will let you do it. So you're a little bit nuts. You lie to people, you cheat,

you do whatever it takes to get an audition, you get a job. It does feel like that is the energy Gene Hackman carried with him throughout his entire career until he retired. Like, he was just sort of adversarial to everyone he worked with. Not like abusive, you know? That's what I think when I was thinking that I hadn't heard much bad about him, is like, it never went to a level of abuse. It seems like he's the typical kind of artist style scare. Yeah, he was just constantly locking horns with everyone all the time. Yeah.

And it's one of the reasons he's like, when the rare times he does interviews, and very clear on why he doesn't want to come out of retirement, he's like, I'm a lot happier now. I finally let go of all that shit. Yeah, is this the movie where Remy kind of puts on the suit and does stuff like this? Is this him trying to like, like, I wear fancy clothes to basically as my armor and my costume? Yeah, yeah, yeah, confidence. Like I got it, you know. And, and here to four, you know, he had been like you said, just mainly working with his friends. Maybe that wasn't required, but like do you know when he made that transition to kind of wearing a suit all the time?

I don't, although I know of course that, that is his onset by right, is he dresses up, right? Right, right, right, Chris? Yeah, I would not be surprised if this was the moment. And if it isn't, it still does feel like this is the moment where symbolically the shift happens. Well, this, that's what I, the my psychology is, this is the moment I would dress up. If I was asking Gene Hackman to sit there while I rearranged the cameras would be the moment when I would be sure I was wearing this Hackman to sit there while I rearranged the cameras would be the moment when I would be sure I was wearing this to when I asked him respectfully to do this. JJ our researcher found this. He posted this on Twitter recently. I imagine it was in doing

research for the show, but I don't know what specific episode. Do you see this quote, David? Which one? I don't know where this interview is from, but they said to Rainy, he just did the screen grab of this question and answer. You always wear a suit on set. Rumor says it's a nod to I don't know where this interview is from, but they said to Rainey, he just did the screen grab of this question and answer. You always wear a suit on set. Rumor says it's a nod to Hitchcock. And he said, although I have a tremendous amount of respect for Alfred Hitchcock, who is the true master of horror and the father of such modern filmmaking technique, I don't

actually wear a suit as a tribute to him. Believe it or not, I wear a suit and tie as a sign of respect to the casting crew. I like a very serious and well-ordered film set. For me, it's the best way to work, and out of that order, I like to get a tremendous amount of creativity. At the same time, the old masters used to dress in a very formal manner on set, and I always thought it was super cool. And then in a line that might have been gust-written by my father, the end of this answer is Sam Remy saying,

nowadays, everyone's got the nose rings and the colored hair. So for me, to wear the suit and tie is a different way to go. Uh, Sam Raimi is not here for the nose rings. My father always talks about the Mohawk hairdo and only refers to it by that full name. The definite article. Look, the no, the Mohawk hairdo and the thing in the nose is what my dad always says. I mean, there's this story that Bruce Campbell relates because I feel like Sam Remy doesn't talk a lot of shit, right? Like Sam Remy strikes me as someone who's not going to be a gentleman. Gene Hackman was a huge pain in the ass, but apparently Sam had a very specific setup. He wanted Gene to do six different things and Gene looked at him and said, I'm not doing any of that.

He wanted Jean to do six different things. And Jean looked at him and said, I'm not doing any of that. Hahaha. Hahaha. And Sam had to talk to him for like 15 minutes about the character to be like, this is why I want you to tip your hat, to sit in the chair, to say this like, you know,

like, you know, he had to like, talk him all the way through it. Because clearly Jean happened was like, I'm not your action figure, you fucker, right? Or whatever it is. Right. But like with Campbell not your action figure you fucker right or whatever it is. Right, but like with Campbell was his action figure. You know, he like he had this big goofy friend who was also a producer who was down for anything and he could just manipulate into a billion takes

by himself. It's just I just like every single performance in this movie is good and he gets people at very different stages in their careers. Well speaking of when, when are we going to talk about Russell Crowe? Because this is his first American movie, yeah. About to pivot to Russell Crowe, who, I mean, I feel like I've lavish some praise on Russell Crowe on this. You're a fan. Yes. Have we covered a lot of Russell Crowe films? Insider. Insider, obviously, really compelling, wonderful performance. But is there another one? That's a good question. I feel like we talk about him a lot.

We're obviously developing a live action, Donkey Kong movie with him, but that might be the only proper Russell Crowe film we've covered. Well, in addition to Rainy, the thing I was most excited about when I came to this movie was Russell Crowe, because I had seen him in Australian movies.

You did you see Rompers, Tomper? That was a big, I saw R Rampersomper? That was a big deal. Which was a big deal. But this other movie, another one that I hope people find and love, is this movie called Proof from 1991. Proof is a wonderful, yes. A Jocelyn Warehouse film. It is so good, and he plays just a dude that is not very notable in any way, except for he is so charismatic that he makes this very ordinary guy, very compelling.

And between that and Rompershopper, I was like, this is the guy. I was like, I was super convinced on him really early on. Well, guess who else was convinced? Sure and still. Sharon Stump. Fucking good ass taste. Because guess who Sam Raimi wanted for this role. Oh, I don't know. Liam Neeson, who he had just worked with. Obviously. Now at this point, Liam Neeson is coming off as Shinler's list. I don't know if

Liam Neeson would want to do this. He would be make total sense for it. Like totally big him, you know, imposing. But Sharon Stone had seen Rompers, don't her. She thought he was charismatic, attractive, talentless, talented, not talentless. I was gonna say, what a nag talented and fearless, which I do feel like is fairly crucial. Crowhead edition for a small role, he'd edition for one of the, you know, many gunslingers, I guess. And Sharon Stone basically was like, you have to audition for the lead role for court. And I basically talked Sam Remy into it. Like, you know, and I, I, this is not even a, probably not even a top 10 realsal crowd performance.

He's given a lot of wonderful performances. But he really fucking magnificent in this movie. And he is so hot. It is crazy. How good he looks. I think it's one of his best. Maybe it's maybe it is. It's sort of like his subtlety that I, you know, his bluster that sort of comes on later is like a is the part of a school I don't enjoy as much. You know, I mean, can bless you. But his, all over the room. He can throw a fucking phone at your head. But his ability to play gentle and tough, and kind of an addict, and kind of, you like, he's basically a violent addict, that's recovering.

And for him to do that and be, I, this might be my favorite role of his ever. That's the obviously look. I mean, it's not just disgusting. Listen, David. Go ahead, go ahead. I may be a notorious soft boy. And I don't want to fucking become Eddie Redmain here, but I do think there is a fragility in this performance that I don't know I've ever seen

cro capture as well. And the way that is cut with his natural sort of brutish animalistic intensity is really fascinating. It's a, I don't think he is ever called upon to pull up this same amount of energy, the same kind of energy rather. It's a different energy. And also like, when you capture him here and something that you get is this infinite possibilities with him. You just see that all the movie stars he could possibly be and just over time, you watch them narrow and those walls close off and he chooses a path

and he becomes more of a Russell Crowe as a person. And in this one, I just see this like amazing performance and this infinite potential and it sort of delights me when I see it. It's so good. I'm regretting the top 10 comment. I think I might revise it to a top five because I'm just looking at his filmography right now because my favorite Russell Crowe performance

is not mastering. Oh, what? That's probably my favorite Russell Crowe movie. That's probably what, you know, but LA Confidential is my favorite. Oh, sure. That's like one of my favorite performances of all time. Yeah. And that's right after this, right?

Yeah, it's like a virtuosity. Virtuosity. It's basically his, for his next performance in a serious movie because God bless virtuosity, which is a very bananas piece of 90s, you know, Hollywood crap. And he's, he is really good at it. And he's like, you know, he pops really hard at it, but that's like a, you know, a real serious movie or whatever. You know, yes, so Ellie confidential. This looks good. Virtuosity. You haven't seen virtuosity. 6.77 the ultimate killing machine. Correct. He is a PR, a Malgum of every serial killer, Ben. Ben, do you know what it stands for?

No. Sadistic, intelligent, dangerous. That would be a... I got a guess. Hands on this shit. I'll bring it over, Ben. I've got it, Humbly Ray. I'll bring it to you.

Perfect. That's another movie I saw on the theater I was very excited for that movie But what I would like to be you're all the pros yeah look but but why does my favorite Crow performance ever that's one of my favorite you know characters ever I love that movie And that is true I would put maybe that one is higher than this one but I just find this one so I would put maybe that one is higher than this one, but I just find this one so, he just has a different type of appeal. And yeah, no, and that I just, I find it really stunning. What's interesting, you sang Rhyme the thing about, like you see all the different ways he could have gone.

In this, you see how he could have become a little more like Liam Neeson. Like I think Liam Neeson probably had a little too much gravitas to pull this off at this point and also was probably a little too known and is a little bit too much of a physical presence. There's something about the fact that Russell Crowe in this movie still even watching it from a modern perspective. You can't really tell if that violence is inside of him or not. You know, there's an actual tension to how much this guy seems to be fighting this stuff. Totally.

Can I fill out my top five? I'm now flanking this. I think it's like a teleconfinancial. I do think I would put Master and Commander second. That performance is so beautiful. Then I guess I would have the insider. Those are sort of, right, that's kind of like your Holy Trinity of Crow. And then I, you guys are talking about tenderness.

Like the movie is, I don't like the movie that much. I know what you're gonna say. I do think his performance in a beautiful mind is like that. He's tapped into that. You know what I did know? Did you think I was gonna say that? No. I thought you were gonna say boy erased. Boy erased is we talked about it. Yeah, I like I like that performance that movie did very little for me. Yes

He's he looks so strange in the movie that it's almost As you said his eyeballs are fat like Do you remember that line Griffith? no, I do it on me. And I sleep, yeah. Nice guys is this sort of a derailleur to crow that people forget about. That's a really great performance. Great.

Obviously, Gladiator is a movie star performance like no other like that, you know, that shit is for real. I like Gladiator Master Commander less than you. Roode, I know. I would, I'm with you. I like Gladiator, Master Commander, less than you. Roode, I know. I would. I'm with you. I like Master Commander better. I did not like Gladiator when I started the Ditter.

Plenty ofyer doesn't do anything. I did nothing for me. And I've given it a few more tries since then. It doesn't work for me. It's kind of the point where I kind of got off the Russell Crowe train. Yeah. That's what people got on. That's what the train was around.

I know that's what's so weird about that. It's so weird. It's all on the roof. And I would take, take you know take him or leave him in certain places like I think for for example Nice guys I think is like the purpose of him in a certain way right and But but he never like Sold a movie for me the same way again after no no I think for me It's I probably say insiders the best performance and then then I think this LA Confidential, nice guys. And I'm trying to think what my fifth would be.

Well, I mean, there's some others good pro performances for not showing out three ten to you. He is actually fantastic in that. He is fantastic in that. I think he's good in man of steel that I wouldn't call that. But he's very good. He's a lot of fun. He played two characters in a little film called The Mummy,

Dr. Jekyll, and wait a second. What's this? What's it's coming into focus? Hold on, just a minute. Mr. Hyde. David is holding a jeweler's loop up to his computer screen. I love, I love Rosalkova. And then absolutely, you know,

Rompress, Tompour is an incredible performance. If anyone has not seen that film, Proof is a really good movie. That Hugo Weaving is also in that film and he's also really good. That's a gem that people should find. And it's another movie where they made another movie called Proof.

So yeah, the, the, the, the, the math play movie, that bad movie, desemplate. And in the other movie, so small, that nobody cared. He's also, it was also an Australian movie called The Some of Us, where he plays a gay character that was sort of, you know, for 1994, like, you know, a fairly adventurous role,

like, you know, he's pretty good in that too, thinking of his pre-ollywood stuff. He guys don't like Gladiator. Gladiators based on a painting. We got to cover Gladiator for that story alone. It's just fucking Ridley Scott seeing a painting of a Gladiator batch and being like, Gladiator, we gotta do it.

This is gonna be great. Can I just run through what Russell Crowe has on deck? Sure. Cause it's a pretty exciting line of actual. He's working, the man works. The man's working, okay. He's playing Zeus in pretty exciting line of actual. He's working. The man works. The man's working. Okay. He's playing Zeus in Thor, Love and Thunder. He is. He directed a movie that he's starring in called poker face where he plays a tech billionaire who gathers his childhood

friends to his Miami estate for what turns into a high stakes game of poker. I am to use the term all in on that show. It's pretty good pretty good. He's in the world of this cast, but sure. Sure. He's in the greatest beer run ever, which is Peter Fairley's follow up to Green Book. It's him and Efron, a man's story of leaving New York in 1967 to bring beer to his childhood buddies in the army while they're fighting in Vietnam. Then he's, I think Bill Murray is in there, but he is.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Yes. while they're fighting in Vietnam, then he's, I think Bill Murray is in there. He is. Yeah. Yes. He's doing Craven the Hunter playing who knows what he's playing Rothko in a Mark Rothko biopic. And then what's the last thing here? Oh, American son. Oh, he's doing the remake of a prophet, a movie that Sam Remy was originally supposed

to direct. Right. He's, he's that Sam Remy was originally supposed to direct. Right. He's he's playing the the Neil South drop. Yeah, the Neil South. Yeah, that's cool. That's an interesting line of movies ahead of I like him working. I look unhinged was a good time, but I'd like him to do more serious stuff as well. Sure.

Another actor who's in this film, guys, is Lee and Arda de Caprio. Yeah. Have you heard of him? Yeah, familiar. Yeah, it's a movie star. He was a recent Oscar nominee, of course, at the time, right? Because Gilbert Grape is what the year before. Yeah.

And he was sharing some was intent on casting him. Apparently, Stone and Rainey paid him themselves out of their budget, out of their salaries, I guess, yeah. Correct. She was so insistent on him being hired that she had them take his salary out of her salary on this movie. It's weird that they wouldn't want him.

That's the only thing I don't understand. It's like he seems like a really hot name, yeah. It does feel like there might have been a perception thing because you also have this boy's life. It's like De Niro has said like this kid's good, right? But I almost feel like there was a perception thing of like he's a serious actor. He's not a movie star.

Yeah, right, right. Which is incredibly bizarre to think. Is it that he was too babyface like or was it that right? He only did like serious movies. Yeah. I had read that that Matt Damon was also considered for the day. One in Sam Rockwell was considered. Yeah. You know, this is those 90s whenever like Damon or whoever is interviewed now, it's like you think about all those all these a list movie stars like who are like

young Hollywood bucks like Trying to get a good role right like is when Damon gets courage under fire. He's like I got the role like you know That's why he like lost 400 pounds I got a like a wall in on this right, but you could see Damon's face working in this movie although I love you. Yes, I'm not a caprio in this, but like he He has it like a harder like a you know like face and you could see him fitting in this movie, although I love Lee. Yes. I mean, I had a caprio on this, but like he has a like a harder like, you know, like face and you could see him fitting in this milieu a little more than then one of the things that's funny and odd about Leonardo Caprio is he just seems like a 90s teen heartthrob

in this role, which is kind of with the role needs, you know, but it's not, it doesn't have the western part of it. He's not dirty at all. He's not dirty at all. He's not dirty at all. He's a true like golden boy. Yeah. That's why it does work for me because he does feel like freaking, you know, I mean, this isn't an old movie, but like Alden Aaron Reichen, Hale Caesar or whatever, like, he does feel like some shiny little Hollywood star from the 30s, right? I think that's right. I think that's what's funny about him is he's like being cast

in a western movie. Like, yes. He's like, hey guys, so fast, baby. He's not being, he's not in a western. Like, he's not, it's a complete meta commentary of a certain type of movie. He feels like Bobby Driscoll and like a live action Disney movie or something.

Like this is the very last performance DeCaprio gives that still has any child actor energy in the like growing pains sense, right? Because when he makes a transition from like growing pains and critters three and whatever, it's like, oh no, but he's working with heavy duty actors and to Nero's telling people that he's like very serious minded and he's like wise beyond his years and Gilbert Grape, everyone said, how could someone so young give a performance like that?

This is the last movie where he's got a little bit of child star shine on it. Yeah, yeah. Like, there's that cleanness to his delivery and even just how he's styled. And I do think you're right that like Matt Damon's face even at this age fits into this milieu better, but it works against the movie almost.

If you have someone who is more realistically cast, they leaned into something that might seem in Congress, but it worked, I think for the movie really, really well. And it's exactly why that fucking final moment between him and Hackman is a goddamn himmer blow. Because when like the entire child star facade drops from him, and he's just going to the paint like full de Camperio, the it's it's it's heartbreaking.

It's hard break. And it's what you said. This thing where you're just like kind of impressed at this movie is able to pull off slow quiet moments of genuine emotion to that degree and a film that is otherwise so kinetic and frenzy. Right. In a film that is about a march madness of shooting. Like that is what it's about. Because it's like Sharon Stone rides into town. There's the little, you know, brief prologue with Tobin Bell. But basically Shurides into town and Pat Hingle is there and he's got like a chalkboard with a bracket

on it. And he's like, well, are you are you in? Yeah, it's a knockout. Here's the deal with this town. We just do a fucking shootout every day at the at the strike a noon. And it's a quick draw. This's towns around by this shitty guy. I mean, it's such a bad town. Like, what if you want to go like buying onion? Yeah, right. Yeah, like it's like, sorry. There's no onion salesman here, only shooters.

The only other person I want to shout out is Lance Hendrickson who I will talk about. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. Yes. We'll talk about Keith David in a second, but I don't think there's any Keith David rich research specifically in here. I mean, we love Keith David, obviously. But just the funny Landtendrix thing is

he knew someone who I guess worked in Wild West shows and stuff. His name is Rex Rossi and Landtendrixen before the movie starts, before production starts, goes to Rex Rossi and says, I got a shoot a card out of his kid's hand. That's in the script. I think there should be more to it than that. So teach me a horse trick. So Rex Rossi taught him the trick where he flips off the horse backwards.

And when he showed up on set, he says, Sam, I want to show you something. Bring a horse over. He jumps on the horse, he flips out off of the horse, shoots under its belly, and Sam Raimi was like, this rules, that's in the movie. That's great. So later we're just showed up with a special horse trick.

And I guess rather than Sam Raimi being like, Jesus, like, why did you work so hard on this without telling me? Sam Raimi was like, of course. You got to do this. A horse, of course. A horse, of course, like, you got to do this. A horse, of course. A horse, of course. I'm looking here at the notes. It also says that Lance Henrickson showed up to set dress like this and said, where is

hair and makeup? And they said, we're just going to put you on camera in this look. That's a joke. But his, his look in this is unbelievable. The long jet black hair. The hair. Yeah. He truly is dressed like, um, God, like, like a rapper now.

You know what I'm saying? Right. Like, who's the rapper with all the face tattoos? Who's like, does country stuff to post Malone? Post Malone. Like that's some shit post Malone would fucking go out at the VMAs wearing. But he's got that sort of like the Renaissance Van Dyke facial hair. Oh, yeah.

I mean, just he's he's leaning so hard into his gimmick. He has all the aces in his deck of cards for each kill. You've got Keith David absolutely swacked out, looking incredible. The best outfit. Sick ass pipe, big pipe, big voice. Like he's got it all. He's incredible. Yeah.

I love the outfits in this, like unironically love. But that's good. Yeah. So of course, like Henrichson and David are such specific castings of, like, not only are these actors who are very familiar faces to audiences at this time, even if they don't know my name, they're gonna stick out, they're gonna remember them. And they also have incredibly distinctive voices, because you need to just introduce them

the first five minutes, put a pin in them and make sure the audience doesn't forget when they come back and are relevant again. Totally. You got Mark Boone Jr. who of course, Griffin, you once said on his performance at batman against it looks like he sleeps under a pizza. Another person I have never forgotten. All of my most savage opponents. No, it's just like he is, he is the any time Mark Boone Jr. in a movie. Isn't a movie you're like, oh, I get it. This guy's a bit of a scumbag, isn't he? Like, he's just got the perfect face for, he scars. You got Tobin Bell, Jake saw himself.

Right. What do you, what do you, what do you strode? This is his final movie, right? What do you strode right at the end of his career? You're right. Yeah, he died before this movie even came out. Yeah. You got, what's it called?

What's his name? Robert's Blossom. Oh, famous old man. Yes. He was in Christine. We've discussed him in man. Yes. He was in Christine. We've discussed him in that. Obviously, he was in a couple of the demis. He's the old man in home alone. Yeah. And you've got a Keith Kevin Conway, who I've always liked as a what's it called as dread. Yes. Judge who gets his dick shot off. Yeah. Not to not to. And can

I say to find a point deserves it deserves it. My opinion. Yeah. Not to, not to, and can I say, to find a point of it? Deserves it, my opinion. Yeah, he's a bit of a jerk. I think he played, I think Kevin Cahn what, yes, he played Kayless in Star Trek the next generation.

If anyone's a Star Trek fan out there, yeah, it's just, it's just an incredible lineup of beautiful character actors. Great faces. Yeah, such good faces. Yeah, it's really, really fun. And there's been there's others I'm not remembering. And obviously like Bruce Campbell shows up for a second and Gary

Sinise obviously shows up in flashback, which is kind of a coup, kind of a casting coup, Gary Sinise, like right off of a far as come. Yeah. I remember that being notable at the time. Like we see is you see his face as a kind of de-garrotype before he shows up. And he plays a good role. And he plays like you can see the way that he looks and mirrors court in a lot of ways. And it's really something. And I also think that flashback scene of her initial trauma, which has takes a surprising turn. Where he's like, and it mimics, you know, reflects the moment that court is brought in. And he's like, they, they, they, the chair and the, and, and, you know, she's given the, the gun to save her father and shoot some in the head instead. It's like a real moment. It really, you feel it, it to me at least.

No, I agree, I agree. You think it's a good job being genuinely visceral in all the cartooniness. Yeah, exactly. There's the thing I've been vote too many times, but I always just think it's such a good storytelling lesson for movies, but the Andrew Stanton finding Nemo thing, where originally he had that movie structured

where you would get glimpses to the flashback of the Barakuda killing his wife and all the other babies throughout the movie. And when they screened it for people, they were like, I cannot stand this Alper Brooks character. He's driving me fucking insane. Why won't this fish calm the fuck down? And so they were like, as an experiment,

what if we just take the scene and we run it in full at the very beginning of the movie and the movie immediately worked? And it was just that thing of like, you think you're being clever by withholding information for later, but not only is it almost never worth it, it also you're depriving the audience of the information that will help them understand the character

at the beginning. So when this movie is doling out these little glimpses as the flashbacks with Gary Seneese, I'm not turned off, but I'm like, why aren't they just telling me the thing? But that final reveal is so good. I'm like, this is one of the examples of this being done right because you think you put together all the pieces. I get it. Hackman killed her father.

That's why she hates him. Why are we like tiptoeing around this? And the final hammer blow they're like holding back on is, it's the mirror of the scene you've already seen. And you remember that moment, but it just felt like cool western shit in that moment. And now everything in the movie has like added weight. I think it's one of the few times where that device actually benefits the film at large.

Yeah, but you write about the tension up to that point because the sort of vague flashbacks don't do anything for you. They're like, they don't do much, but it really does pay off and it does that perfect thing of making reevaluate the rest of the movie. And you do see her fear and her when when that moment happens, where it is the exact same scene of her father, and it's like, just like the memory of it, like Joltz you in this great way of re-evaluation. I think that's really, really great and harrowing.

And it's also truly surprising. Like I expected her to miss a bunch of times or whatever, but first shot hits her dad is like, it's a real gut punch. It's like, it's just perfect backstory. That's all you need. You know, it's like everything you need to know about those characters in that one moment defining her.

And it shows her motivation, but like, you know, she's not until the end where you put all that stuff together and there's the sort of final confrontation, she is not presented as superhuman. She's presented as competent, she's presented as very good, but she doesn't shoot the rope once and not, she just goes, bam, bam, bam, you're like, she really like, it is not that she's perfect at this, she's just driven.

And I think that's another great move with this movie, is that everyone is good, obviously, at shooting, but that's why they want to do the shooting. But no one is presented as a total terminator. If anything, the kid is maybe the most like naturally gifted in a way, and that he keeps being like, I'm so fast, like, you know, and that sort of seems to almost be a superpower. And Gene Hackman seems to have a certain superpower too. I'm like, he's scary. But he also feels so vulnerable in that way where you're just like,

I mean, it's especially the scene obviously where the kid dies. And he's like, it was never proven that he was my son. Like, he's so sort of pathetic in that scene. And like clearly just unable to admit his humanity or what you know what I mean like that you kind of are just like, oh god someone take this guy down like it's so perfect. Yeah, I'll for that David. I'll just say to like, there's the time when after a fight when he wins obviously he

pauses to wait for everyone to clap for him. Yeah, exactly. It made me think of Mr. Burns. It when Mr. Burns competes in the film, you know what I mean? Festival. Yes, yes, of course. Like it just had that vibe. Like he is really just pathetic, truly. Yeah, that that is a really good moment. If I hold up his hands and please clap for me, it's so good. Like and he's expecting it. He's like, I am, you know, the hero of this movie, right?

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. The moment with the kid is so fucking good, and you've set up this uneasy thing of like, the caprio's told you, I think he's my father, right? You've seen them have a number of exchanges, and you can't tell whether Hackman is completely oblivious,

knows but is trying not to acknowledge it or doesn't believe it's true, right? And then, you know, he's sort of saying like enough enough kid, they go to the shoot out. Stone's trying to talk to Camprio out of it. He says like, I just need him to acknowledge me, right? I need to earn his respect. Right. It's, man, it's sad. It's so sad. It's, it's, it's, what do you want out of this?

It's like, I just need him to fucking respect me. And then the, the moment the way he sets that up and cuts it so that it's like draw, draw, hackman responding to the bullet on the neck, you almost think the caprio's one. And then when you cut back to decapriose face, you see his like shock that he landed a bullet that immediately turns into the physical, like. He plays it really well. He plays it really fucking well. The collapse, yeah.

And then he just collapsed, right? He's like full on like embarrassing child crying, so terrified. I don't want to die, right? And Hackman stands over him and he fucking reaches out. That's where he plays that moment. Oh, he just fucking reaches out. And Hackman, as you said, once the caprio dies, he goes through all the motions of,

well, they never proved he was actually my kid. I tried to give him an out. I told him he didn't have to do this. This and that like Hackman's making every single excuse. When he looks at the caprio, he was actually my kid. I tried to give him an out. I told him he didn't have to do this. This and that, like, Hackman's making every single excuse. When he looks at the Caprio, he is inscrutable. You cannot read his face. And the Caprio just wants anything out of him. Yeah, gives him nothing.

Yeah. It's really good. And again, like Roman saying, it would be easy for these more emotional moments to fall really flat because the movie is so heightened. Like it's, it's a tricky task like getting that stuff to work when you also have like someone shooting a perfect hole and keep David's head and the wind blowing through it. So that's the other unbelievable hack man scene for me. Yeah. Just that. It's a really good scene. Yeah. Yeah. You've kept keep David on the

shelf for a while, right? You're like, why would you? You're not introduced if you're not going to really use him for like 40 minutes or whatever. He's around. Yeah. But like such a distinctive dude, then he has that little meeting where he susses the guy out and he's like, okay, they paid you to bring me in. And then that fucking just brutal, like the rules have changed. This is now to the death. Right. I'm not gonna this guy down. I'm blowing a hole in the back of his head

and I'm telling all of you how quickly it turns into the like, oh, so you can play into me about not having enough money, but you paid some fucking guy to kill me. That's great. His menace, like turning that moment around is like, just adding to his like overall power. It's like, it's it's great it's like I think this movie is so perfectly structured it like and it mimics really mimics a video game more than probably anything and you

go where you just get progressively each each sort of setup of the gun fight is is like yep that has to be the way it is it can't't be another way around. You know, like, it has to be a court and the lady at the last one, it has to be that it's just, like, it's perfectly structured and the kid and herod at the very end. Like, all of it is like, set up really, really perfectly as a plot mechanism. And you have four perfect character arcs. Like, totally. and it hits it. And amongst this like very, really, really silly premise. You know, like, it is undeniably ridiculous premise. No one could possibly defend it, it's true.

I think there is, like truly one scene in this movie that feels a little bit wonky to me. What's that? I think it's the only scene in this movie that feels just a little bit misky to me. What's that? I think it's the only scene in this movie that feels just a little bit miscalibrated, which is the Sharon Stone, Robert Blossom confrontation in the graveyard, in the train. It just feels overcranked.

Like her and Blossom are both sort of overacting. The scene is overwritten. It feels too expository. Like the movie has- It's also coming kind of late. So the movie has to slow down to do it. And it's sort of like, we kind of already figured this out. You know what I mean?

Like it feels like you're kind of the movie's catching up in a way that you don't need it too. Yeah. The rain is good though. The rain is good. It's good. It's like. Yeah.

It's not ruinous. But if like if you're making fun of Sharon Stone in this, this is the scene you make fun of. It's the scene to pull out. It's the one scene that may be placed to her weaknesses. And I also think the rest of the movie is just kind of like so clean and lean

and economic and diamond cut that this one scene ends up feeling a lot sloppy or by comparison. Yeah, I agree with that. I'm totally able to get over it though when I'm watching it. Well, it's just an easy watch. Yeah, go ahead Ben.

I want to shout out spotted horse. That character fucking rules. I love that. His whole thing is he's like, I'm just not afraid of this. You know, because like, I don't think we really discuss him. Like his whole trait though, if like, and he runs through all the bullets he's taken and he just seems so fucking badass.

He cannot be killed by a bullet. Yeah. I really, I was very sad to lose that character. Well, that scene is also really intense and clever. The whole thing with court, like, you know being like get me another bullet get me another bullet You know like the blind kid god this movie is I Do wonder right in 1995 if people were just like too much too many bits like yeah, there's a blind kid like rifling through the bullets

Like you know like is no one in this normal? Is that, was that become a plane? Because I was just thinking of that scene and I'm like, right, it's not only is it everything I'm describing, but the blind kid is then working through the bullets to find a 35 millimeter or whatever. Yeah. No, maybe everything. Rainy was too fast, too early, and culture has caught up to him, right? In how we can process information and all of this, especially when so much of it's visual. But I do think it's a thing I love about his movies, where it's just like every single thing can be something. There's no like, unimportant detail, moment, character, performance shot. I think this was a victim of its time. This is a movie and he's a director

of unfettered enthusiasm. And this was a moment in cinema where enthusiasm was not rewarded. It was really a cynical time. And but I think if you pulled it out today, people would just like, you know, this showed up on HBO Max today, it would be the talk. Like everyone would love it. Everything was the most amazing second coming type of movie. We were saying this right before we started recording, Roman, I feel like at least once a mini series, there is a movie that we've covered on the podcast, which because of the nature of this podcast covering an entire career, is the kind of movie that maybe other podcasts will never devote an entire episode to. That's sort of a forgotten middle thing, whether,

you know, whatever. And I feel like there's one movie per miniseries that like our listeners are like, holy shit, this fucking thing. How did I not know? This is my new favorite movie. And I do expect that a lot of people are gonna be like, oh my God, how was I unaware of this film existing? Or that's some movie I watched on TBS when I was a kid.

I had no idea that was a Sam Raimi movie. It all makes more sense now. I, but like it, but I remember it having, you know, 10% more mustard than you could think. Right. Right. That moves stuck in my mind as a kid, or, you know, when I saw it in a dorm room or whatever.

It's so good. It is funny to think of it in Sam Raimi's career as well. We're like, we are all basically just like, I love it, more Dutch angles, more smash. Yeah. Great, great, great. But Sam Remy's reaction to making this movie was, I need to relax. I need for a treat and to a hold.

He comes back in 1998 with a simple plan, which is his most toned down, you know, you know, sort of visual trickery free movie ever. But then the four of the love of the game in the gift are similarly much more muted, right? Like it takes him quite a while before Spider-Man sort of encourages all of his loony-tune stuff again. Like he really goes into hibernation. Yeah.

And let's acknowledge the other shift is, I mean, it's what we've been like, you know, setting this up the entire miniseries, but it is so bizarre that he gets Spider-Man at that moment because they're almost calling him off the bench to do the thing he had sort of walked away from doing. Like he had worked so hard to not be seen as that guy and they were like, hey, the entire industry's changed, we need that guy. You know, it's like them finding the gruber like at the fucking church in Mexico going, we need you to cut your head and come back in the action.

We need an enthusiast, is what they need. I mean, the thing is, like, that's what, that's what, as a comic book fan, that's what we were calling for, was someone who understood the material, or at least the spirit of it in a way that, that didn't, nobody really did. Everyone was like, okay, we got to take him out of the costumes. We got to take him out of the, we got to ground them in this. And, and that was the, all, we gotta take him out of the costumes. We gotta take him out of this. We gotta ground them in this. And that was all the impulse. And he didn't do that.

Right, because yeah, Tim Burton, Brian Singer, those were directors where it's like they were well regarded directors, but in the interviews, they'd be like, yeah, I never really read a comic book. Like, you know, and that was seen as like, good, good, good, good, good. You're not gonna embarrass me this year or whatever, right? And yeah, yeah, Sam Raymean is a different good. You're not going to impair us this year or whatever. Right. And yeah, yeah, Sam Raymean is a different vibe.

I just remember walking out of the first Spider-Man and going, that's the first movie I've seen that actually feels like a comic book. And so many people had tried to in a literal way, like Dick Tracy's style, make something look like a comic book. But then they're like, you can make a movie with the aesthetics of illustration. and that's the first movie where I'm like emotionally this feels like a comic book Right that they they took the archeness of its presentation and I the thing was with when I read comic books I treated them seriously like like they were they had a motion between the panels and it wasn't just putting a Persemin pracingium arch around a frame. It really was

something else and I thought that he captured that for the first time more than anybody and then also the technical aspects of it were so great and it like he just sort of nailed it and it wasn't until actually I thought he was pretty muted for him in Spider-Man 1 and then Spider-Man 2 where they have an actual horror scene inside of it with the doc ock of surgery where you go like, oh God, that's the guy. That's right. Right. Right.

Now he's totally back in it. Right. One it still sort of feels like he's auditioning a little bit. Yeah. Well, you'll get there. Yeah. No, I mean, it's a lot. It's a lot.

The other thing just to call out before, I guess we should go on the box. I was came in and any other thoughts we have is that the other thing that happens in the three years between this and a simple plan when he sort of tries to remake himself as like a serious adult picture maker is the entire TV empire. Yeah. Which is part, that's part of his hibernation, right? That's part of him being like, okay, okay. Yeah. He's doing something else.

Yeah, and he's actually figuring out a really good path for him, which is kind of fascinating and probably both more lucrative and more like ability to have success and also not have your life determined by a bunch of morons who run movies to us. That's the biggest thing I think, Grom. Is he sort of gets his freedom, he gets his sort of like confidence, you know.

He's built this little empire, it's syndicated, they're not really beholden to anybody. It's ever expanding. He's employing all of his friends and his brothers. And it's like that, it puts a lot of the anxieties to bed, maybe, so that he's able to come back and just go like, what do I want to do as a filmmaker? That's the only concern. Yeah, it makes total sense to me that it would take something like Spider-Man to be like, okay, well, that's a thing with enough resources and enough, you know, like, whatever, to pull me off of this other thing, which I control everything and I don't have to listen to any

idiots, you know, and that's a good position to be in in your career to be able to say no to everything, which he probably did. He, you know, like, he probably said no to a ton of things that we would have loved him to do, but it just wasn't right. And we're more power to him. We'll do, uh, at some point in some episode, but there, he's one of those guys with there is an entire Wikipedia entry just on unmade Sam Raimi projects. It's not a subsection of his wiki page. It is its own page. I'll say a non-marchindized spotlight. I know you've made the comparison very aptly

and number of times now, Roman, but watching this, I kept on thinking like, God, I really wish there had been like a Sega Genesis game. It just, you could make sure the shootout game with all of these guys who would translate so perfectly into that sort of pixelated art. Someone make that now, make a, you know, a web browser shooting game, 16 bit. I want to see, you know, frickin, Keith David and Lang's Hendrickson's faces all pixelated.

Like, give me that, please. With Gene Hackman is the final boss, Obviously, right. Yes, right. himself with a little bowler hat. We've showed about this before, but it is so funny that like casting Commissioner Gordon now is like casting a yago or something. And it's like, who is worthy of picking up the bad?

And at that point, they were like, I don't know, who's some guy who looks like a cop? Like, patting him never fit Commissioner Gordon as a type. You've got love of them. I mean, I love them both in all movies and as Commissioner Gordon, but it is funny that

every other Commissioner Gordon, I mean, the one's post, Gary Olman, right? Yeah. It's like a soft, spoken, intelligent, cerebral kind of, you know, war, weary cop. Pangles just like basically got a pocket watch. He's like, Batman, are you here yet? Mr. Freeze is tearing up the museum. Like, you know, Pangles just like basically got a pocket watch. He's like, Batman, are you here yet? Mr. Freeze is tearing up the museum. Like, you know, he's just, it also, it feels like every scene right before he goes on camera. He goes like, what's my guy's name again?

Oh, exactly. Commissioner what? Um, so, uh, Pat, anything else? Yeah? At the end, I think, I mean, they, it's fun that the last 20 minutes of this movie are like an extended work, right? Like everything from the Capriots death on. And it the payoff, like I love court kind of turning superhuman for, you know, at this

last moment where you just like shoots people, binds back and like you get like his full powers and realize how much he's been holding back. And the whole premise of like, she's literally not a better gunfighter than Jean Hackman. But in this moment, she is. And both you believe it, Jean Hackman believes it. They just made that really work for me. They built up this whole thing to lead to this moment and it's super convincing and it's very satisfying ending. And then she throws the Marshall Star at court who's now gonna be like the new Sheriff in town. Just what you wanted, even though you haven't

think you're gonna be right at it. And you're like, yep, oh, that's perfect. It has all these things that come together and then it's like black and then it's like done and it's like no wasted time. You know, I mean sheriff of what's left of the fuck. I know. Not the greatest town. Yeah, he left the she left quite a mess in her way. He's in a lot of people showing up being like, hey, is this where we do the shooting? And it's like, no, we don't do that anymore.

Like, is that happening over and over again? Like, I don't know. It is this thing. I love though that, you know, she throws the star back to him. You're completing his arc, right? Here is this guy who never wanted to be a killer who was forced to shoot this pastor who's tried to recommit himself to the cloth because he feels like he can never get over this sin.

They tease him out. He realizes these innate instincts he has. He cannot help but kill when placed in this situation. That first moment, his first shootout, when you truly feel like he's ready to die and he is surprised that his hand reached for the gun and shot that fast. It's really, really cool.

It's shot really well. And he's also his twitch when they, they give him guns to like, yeah, to, to, you know, and he, he's looking at him and he knows how to use them and he knows he wants to touch them. And it's all there. It's shot really, really well. And, and it's super convincing. And then you get this moment at the end where you're like, I wasn't thinking about this.

I wasn't thinking about the redemption of court this whole time at all. And, and then it's like, oh, this is the perfect marriage of the things he's feeling and wants to, you know, make amends for. And his literal skill set, you know, and it makes tons of sense. It just, it just, it just works. It feels like this very clean, neat, tidy, happy ending. That is fully earned. Yeah.

But, but he like lingers on it for an additional moment before it fades to black where you see him looking at the badge and considering it. Like, Remy could have cut like a second or two earlier and it was just he has the badge, everything's in order and it does feel like there's this extra moment there of him looking at it and debating whether or not he wants to do this and I think of like all three Spider-Man movies and like that. It is this thing that's so distinctive in those movies that all three movies end with this weird lingering moment of Mary Jane being like, what happens now? You know, like all three of them end on her face, I think. And the evil dead movies obviously all

end with Ash getting like upended in some way, but I feel like he always like for a, he always needs to pull the rug a little bit or at least leave some kind of graduate-esque lingering question of like, but is it really going to be that tidy? The guy, the guy still lets odds with himself a little bit, you know? That's interesting. I think I read that differently. I think I read it as like taking time for you to recognize the genius of all this stuff coming together in the right way. It's like part of way I read that too.

But that's that's super fascinating. I do think he becomes sheriff, but I don't think it's something that like it's not a tidy resolution in the end. I don't think he can take it on easily. I think he's nothing else. Yes, to start hiring a bunch of contractors to come. It's got shit to do. Such a good fucking movie. It's a good fucking movie. It's a good fucking movie. You want to play that box office? Wait, wait, last last thing, Lance Hendrickson's death, the squib shot. Also, the speed with which everyone takes all of his clothing. Oh, I know, yeah.

It starts fighting each other over it. And him, like the image of him and is just his long underwear after he's been stripped and he's like, is this naked, like plucked chicken looking thing is a real, also kind of like pathetic and sad and is a good image to end on him with with all of his like since he's all surface, you know, he's all like leather and, you know, and playing with all of this stuff.

It was all the costume basically. I mean, not at all, but, yeah. Lovely and Sandrookson at all times. He also seems like someone who would scare the shit out of me in real life, but that's absolutely. Yeah. The box of his game for this one is great. I got to be honest. Okay. Well, this phone came out February 10th, 1995. Okay. This is a real, there's a lot of

bends choices in here. I think. Oh, wow. Quick and the dead open number two six and a half million dollars on its way to an 18 million dollar gross, which is about half its budget. So rude. Not go bad. Unfortunately, but it is also opening behind a very dumb comedy that was the launch, I would say, of a major comedy star. So is this a magic this like sort of a Ben pick? It's a bit of a Ben pick. And it is indeed the film Billy Madison. Wow. And I do think getting your lunch eaten by Billy Madison, if you're like Sharon Stone and you're like, you know, big fancy western, it's not a good look, right? Yeah. It's rough, especially that one where it's right to particularly dumb style movie.

Although I think it's a very good, like that's one of my favorites. So it's absolutely. Absolutely. We all, yeah, that's top here. Sam. Yeah. Yeah. Right. We all, yeah, that's top here. Sam, yeah, yeah. Timmer Davis is also someone, if there was ever a Ben region in March madness, she is a real candidate.

Yeah, well, you know, it's a weird, it's a weird bunch of movies. It's gone crazy, which I've never seen, but is the Drew Barrymore Michael Ironside kind of like action in D, right? Yeah. Then CB4, which is is a crucial part of the art effects. Yep. Then Billy Madison, then best man, the Dean Cain, anti-dick. I've never seen that. That doesn't really exist. But what's the next one, David? It's a little film called Half Baked. Oh, yeah. Half Baked is like hands down the movie I've seen the most.

Dude, I'm not too surprised to hear that. Um, then skipped parts, which is like a Jennifer Jason Lee movie that never really came out. Then the Britney Spears movie Crossroads. Yes. Uh, and then, uh, she made like a Basquiat documentary. And also an incredible, incredible amount of music videos for awesome bands. Like, yeah, some really big music video director. Some really huge stuff.

A lot of TV as well. But also, let's not brush over her Basquiat documentary. She worked at an art gallery in 1986, or is it 83? She was friends with Baskot. It's a documentary of footage she shot interviewing him as her friend. Right, right. Two years before he died and she sat on it

for 20 years before she was ready to edit it. So it's like someone making a documentary with all this unbelievable unseen footage from. Fine, we're doing Tamara Davis. She's on it. Okay. A list. Half the podcast did, I. It's decided. Okay. List. Half podcasted.

I don't know. Billy Madison number one. Quick and a dead number two. Number number three is a, it's a sort of, it's a holdover from Christmas season. It's a very Tony, pretty, epic movie that is not very good. It's one of those movies that was clearly a major Oscar play and was widely ignored except for technical nominations. But it

is a major moment for its star who is on the up and up. It's one of those movies that is basically forgotten except as sort of a title and it's scores kind of famous. Huh, it's a period film. It is. It's a, it's a, it's a Western as well. It's another Western actually. We forgot to mention this one.

So frontier movie big. It's, it's long, it's dramatic. There's crying. People die, you know. Did, did you have a guess until he said Western Roman, it looked like you had a notion. No, I, nothing is ringing a bell with me. And it was just like, this is a hallmark of me listening to the show and listening to the box office games.

So yeah, I don't, I have no idea. The score is sending me because I feel like I, I keep track of like those sort of, it's a famous one overused scores overused in trailer that people even forget what movie they're originally from exactly that would be the holiday time of 94 it was released Christmas 94 it was a hit it made a lot of money it made not maybe not is enough that it made it made $66 million, $160 worldwide. It was a pretty solid hit for what I think is an R rated super long. It's not, it's like two hours, 20 minutes or whatever.

Yeah. What about the director? He's a director who has made a lot of epic films. He's a fairly major director, but I would say he is not the best director of the films. Okay. He's a fairly major director, but I would say he is the best. It's not as weak is it? It is as weak. It is as weak. So what's the zwick after glory? It's after glory. He also did a movie called Leaving Normal in between this and glory with the Christian Loddy and Mike Tilly. I think one of his better movies. Of course, he does courage on the Fire right after this movie.

I already mentioned that this episode. So is this the last samurai? It's not the last samurai. That's in the 2000s. Okay, that's what it's really for off. But that's the only big thick of. That's first time I remember his name. That is his Wic, of course.

He also made Blood Diamond. He made the Siege. He made Love and Other Drugs. Somewhat bizarrely. It's not legends of the fall. It's legends of the fall. Okay. Okay. Brad Pitt, Anthony Hopkins, Aiden Quinn, Julia Ormond, movie I recently watched for reasons I cannot remember. Can confirm. Pretty boring.

Look at that. Right. Right. And it's kind of like a pit performance because this is post, you know, pit emerging as like him Bo King, Johnny Sway, Thelma and Louise, cool world, right? Like it's post that. It's in his like river runs through it, you know, interview with the vampire legends of the fall days where he's so pretty, but he's boring. Like, yeah, he doesn't get to have any fun. Like, and it's like, once he's in 12 monkeys and true romance and shit, it's like, fun.

Yes. Right. Brad Pitt is actually a very twitchy over the top actor. It is funny that 95 is seven and 12 monkeys. Like legends of the fall interview with the vampire is peak like 94, let Brad Pitt just be pretty. Let him stay. He's straight up bad in interlude the vampire.

Like Tom Cruise acts him off the screen in that movie and it's annoying because it should be like, here we go. Cruise and Pitt, you know, like, you know, this is gonna be great and Pitt is such a dish rag in that movie. And in Legend of the Fall is a little more fun but he's, you know, just very serious, very serious. Sure, sure.

Yeah, yeah, it's a James Horner score. Right, yeah, no, no, no, no, no. but he's just very serious, very serious. Sure. Sure. Yeah. Yeah. It's a James Horner score. Right. Yeah, no, no, no, no. Yeah. For some reason, I always think that movies earlier, because of how big it was for Pitt's career. But yes, yeah.

That's why I was second-guessing it. Number four is a, you know, a dramedy female characters. I've never seen it. It's the final film of a fairly well-done director in a very long career, making Hollywood comedies and dramas. Three female stars, I would say two very famous at the time, one kind of on the up and up, but famous now. I always get these confused as a boys on the side. It's boys on the side. Okay. Well done. Who directed it, Griffin?

That's what I'm trying to remember. Boys on the side is Herbert Ross. It's a Herbert Rod. It's his last film. Okay. After a very obviously Herbert Ross made funny lady and yes, the turning point and the goodbye girl and, you know, pennies from having he made so many foot loose, you know, steel magnolias, he made tons of movies. It's written by Don Rousse, which is interesting.

Griffin, you know, before obviously he becomes a director. Yeah, Merritt Wuppie Goldberg drew Barrymore, Mary Louise Parker. I get boys on the side confused with how to make an American quilt. Yeah, that's fair. I get boys on the side confused with how to make an American quilt. Yeah, that's fair. I mean, I think that's okay. And I feel like there's one other movie of that era where I'm just like, which combination of the actors is it?

Those movies where they're kind of generational. And I'm like, which ones Drew Barrymore, which ones were on the ride or which ones will be, which ones I am banged craft? Exactly. Yeah. Is anyone seen, boys on the side? I am banged craft. Exactly. Yeah. Is anyone seen boys on the side? I've not. No, I've not seen boys on the side.

It is really amazing to watch this in person because I was 20 years old when this came out and I have no memory of it whatsoever. I think you were maybe nine, Griff. I don't even want to be a whole lot of that. I think you were like six. I was six. I was six. And so this is a pleasure to watch. So honestly, he was about to turn six.

My birthday is coming up. All right. Number five of the box office. It's a hit comedy that had come out in Christmas. It's made $111 million. Is it like a family comedy? No, it is more of a teen gross out vibe although the characters are not teens.

Sure, okay, so it's a 1994 gross out comedy. Is it, is it Dumb and Dumber? It's dumb and Dumber. Yeah, wow. Yeah. Another Ben pick, Bright Ben. I'm sure you liked Dumb and Dumber. No, I hated it.

It was actually really like felt like soap and youth me kind of. You found it disrespectful. Yeah, it was disrespectful. It's actually really like felt like so beneath me kind of you found a disrespectful. Yeah, it was disrespectful. It's tasteless. You know, I'm sorry, sorry for saying anything, Ben. Yeah. I mean, I don't love when somebody just makes a really loud annoying noise for a long extended period of time driving a hitman insane. Not your kind of leading him to have a heart attack. That isn't hilarious to me. Some other movies in the content. You've got nobody's fool, the Paul Newman Oscar vehicle. You've got in the mouth of madness,

a little bit of you we've discussed before, very cute movie. Great, great. We're seeing the theater and I enjoyed your coverage of it. I think that one's another underrated movie. Agreed. I think that was similarly kind of the quick and the dead of that series. Yeah. Yeah.

You got the kind of mostly forgotten film murder in the first, which was one of the Dan and Kevin Bacon Oscar play. Yeah. Exactly. One of the many early 90s movie, the Kevin Bacon Popson, and he got like a sag nomination and got an Oscar. You know, like there's just like that run of bacon in the 90s, where it's like he's it's post, you know, cute bacon in the 80s. It's him proving himself like JFK, few good men, riverwile, murder in the first Apollo 13. Right. I don't need to be the star. I want to do good supporting parts in big movies. Yeah. He's good in all of them and he's always overlooked. Is Gary Oldman the other counterpart in that one or am I thinking of a different movie?

Well, Gary Oldman, of course, is in JFK. He plays Lee Harvey. No, but in murder. Yes, he is in murder in the first with Christian Slater. Right. Slater is the, he's the do gooder lawyer who is defending Kevin Bacon. And I think Oldman might be the villain lawyer or something. a good lawyer who is defending Kevin Bacon. And I think Oldman might be the villain lawyer or something. He's the associate prison warden of Alton. He's the prison warden there. That's right.

Yeah. Oh, yeah, he's actually really good. This is one of those movies that's like, it's a total six out of 10 with the actors, Slater is kind of whatever, but like everyone else is good because William H. Macy is in it. And Beth David's Brad Dorif, Arley Irmy, Tobalowski, Mia Kerr. Arley Irmy is the judge, I think.

That's what he has a lot of fun. It's a very subtle performance, of course, by Arley Irmy. Ben, another film here, I'm noticing that maybe you were interested in number nine, the jerky boys. In theaters. No, David, you're nine, the jerky boys. In theaters. No, David, you're completely, you're completely off. Of course, Frank Hall.

Of course. Frank Hall. You know, I was too busy just deep into reading, Lobby Dick and, you know, find the rest of literature. I would never laugh, you know, like a guy who says, you kicked my dog. And number 10 at the box office, Highlander three, the sorcerer, also known as Highlander, the final dimension. Another Ben pick. Another Ben pick, of course, because can we say Ben is just, he's been petitioning to do Highlander

on Patreon. Yes. So if you guys are into that, hit us up a series of diminishing returns that you'll have a, that'll be a hard day for you. Right. It'll be fun. We'll be very blessed. David, I'm sorry. I'm sorry, just to circle back quickly. I think I missed, or you maybe weren't specific enough, which jerky boys movie was it in

the, in the top 10 at this point? Uh, which one is this? It's a jerky boys. I think it's the original recipe original 1995. The jerky boys, the I'm just confused. They made so many successful movies. So yeah, the jerky boys. Okay. Um, yeah, 81 minutes long.

Honestly, longer than I thought it would be when I looked up the running time. I was like, was this a cool 75? No, they got to 81. Okay. Um, yeah, was this a cool 75? No, they got a 81. Okay. Um, yeah, it's a true qualified for Oscars, you know, yeah, about 80. Yeah. Uh, so that's your top 10 fun top 10 in my opinion, even very fun. The dead was treated rudely.

Yeah. Um, yeah, we're dumb. Uh, Roman, you host a wildly successful podcast. So does not need our boost. 99% visible, but it's a phenomenal show. Thank you so much. I, it's a real honor to be here. Like I listened, I've listened to nearly every episode of this show.

What Patreon subscriber I, it was my, it was my real companion during the beginning of the COVID, uh, novel coronavirus. The what? Yes. I'm very familiar with it. Um, but like, especially the, I jumped in there with all the, of the COVID novel coronavirus. The what? Yes, I'm very familiar with it, but like, especially that I jumped in there with all the Marvel movies and no, this show means a great deal to me. So I'm really honored to be here. Thank you so much.

It is a long overdue. You've been very kind to us and we've been talking with you for like years now since you started listening to the show and you've been very supportive and Good friend to the podcast even though it's only manifesting on Mike now, but I'm I'm glad I threw you just sort of the list of like You know, oh by the way We should have you on at some point here are some of the things and you immediately spark to like quick and the dead rules Yeah you wanted some point, here are some of the things, and you immediately sparked to like, quick and the dead rules. Yeah, when you mentioned Ramy, the one thing is like, I feel like

when it comes to like evil dead and Spider-Man, like there's a scholar of these things that is required for those movies in a certain way, and quick and the dead was sort of my like, my favorite in an angle, so low stakes enough for me to feel like I wouldn't ruin it. We do arguably have three different scholars lined up for the spider mantra.

We do we do. It's going to be that's going to be a good little run. I think it's a good run. Yeah, but I'm it's a real pleasure to be here and thanks so much and pleasure. Pleasures all hours. Now please never come on the show again. You make a sound like a few best employees. No, you'll be back.

I think I did great. I think everyone, I think everyone sounds marvelous. Everyone sort of talks about my voice, but like I'm a big lover of all voices to tell you the truth. Yeah, that is not a bias I have. Yeah, but your voice is better. Even just the way you said that.

I couldn't deliver it that well. Thank you all for listening. Please remember to rate, review, and subscribe. Thank you. Roman, he says subscribe. I refuse to say follow, which it's just. I'm all team Griffin on this one. Thank you.

All right. Even if the terminology's wrong, everyone knows what I'm saying. I don't like follow. I don't know what it means. I know subscribe means something different to people, but it's like, it's one of those ones that I do not like follow. I don't know what it, does it mean I'm gonna download

the thing? I don't know. That's my thing. I'm like, I feel like if I say rate review and follow people are like on social media. Exactly, exactly. No. I feel your pain as a producer, Ben,

because I'm a long time producer in addition to being a host and when you try to get your host to do something and they will refuse to do, I understand that pain. So I'm with you on that side. You're just trying to do what's right for the show. And I'm talking about it. I'm a dream mother. It's never difficult to get me to do anything.

But, but subscribing is what it's called. I can't get behind that. You got to subscribe. You got to subscribe. You got to subscribe. You got to subscribe. You got to subscribe. You got to subscribe. You got to subscribe. We've decided we're back to subscribe. You got to subscribe. And here's the thing. If you want to follow, you can follow our social media accounts run by Marie Barley. David's happy that I pulled

off that transition. He's also saying wrap it up. Thank you to HMK and Alex Barron for our editing JJ Birch Nickloriano for our research layman camera in the great American Al for a theme song Pat rounds Joe Bowen for our artwork. You can go to blankcheckpod.com for all the nerdy things that used to take up seven different callouts in this outro tune in next week for a simple plan. You can go to hatred on dot com slash blank check for blank check special features where at this point we are Getting ready to do the Batman movies, right? Yes, we're doing all the Batman movies. We haven't covered before It's called hashtag not all Batman

So no Burton No, no Lynn, but we're including animated. I think it'll be a fun, weirdly diverse series considering that all the movie star, a Batman. And as always, this is a different thing than I usually do for end as always, but I felt like I had to read this, David. It could not go unread. The final little bit that JJ and Nick put in their research dossier for this week for quick in the dead is not specifically relevant to this movie, but I just think

it's a beautiful thing. He says, there's this great quote from Bruce Campbell that I want to throw in because I haven't yet talked about how much Remy loves to garden. And this is the quote. He's had compost piles in the back of his house from the first time I've known him. Sam used to take super eight film and grind it up and then grow vegetables and eat the vegetables. He's the only filmmaker who eats film.

That is pretty cool. That's pretty cool. That's both like cool and sweet and also bad. Yeah. And I hope his digestive tract is handling that. Okay. about it. Yeah, and I hope his digestive track is handling that, okay? Thanks to Griffin Newman and David Sims for having me on. Right now, you need to go find blank check on your podcast app, scroll through the episodes, find a couple movies that you know and love and give it a shot. And then I almost 100% guarantee you will listen to a couple about movies that you don't

know as well, but are just curious about. And then you're going to be listening to a two-hour conversation about Nancy Myers' 2015 movie, The Intern, starring Robert De Niro, which you haven't seen, and loving the discussion. But also thinking, how did I get here? Just go for it. I would not steer you wrong. Thanks again to Griffin and David and producer Ben Hossley, aka producer Ben, producer Ben, the Ben Ducer,

the poet laureate, the meat lover, the tiebreaker, the fart detective, our finest film critic, the peeper, Bert de Benny, hello Fennel, not Professor Krispy, the fuck master, Derbeig Benny, White Hot Benny, Sockenwett Benny, The Hoss, Mr. Positive, Mr. Hossative, Close Personal Friend of Dan Lewis, The Voice of Reason, Sandahoss, The Komish, Wishwell Ben, Hoss Dewey, The Futser, Producer Anne. He has adopted various sober case at the end of each miniseries, including Producer Ben Kenobi, Kylo Ben, Ben Knight Shaman, Ben Sate, say Ben-E-Thin,

Ely Ben with a dollar sign, War Haas, Prudua or Bain, Ben 19 the Fennelmaker, Robo Haas, Bangladesh, Mr. Ben Credible, Eat Drink Ben Haasley, Beetle Vape Juice, The Haas La Day, Public Benemies, Haasika of the Ditch of the Jersey, Stop Making Benz, Haas, Figging the City, Ben Haasley Met Sally, The Secret Life of Benz, The Great Mouse Far Detective,, Haas, Figging the City. Ben Hossley, Met Sally, The Secret Life of Bands, The Great Mouse Far Detective, The Haas Bray Kid, Bands in the Haas, Bandscape from New Haas, and Bronco Hossley. you