A Bit Fruity with Matt Bernstein - Clavicular Is a Symptom, Not The Cause (with F.D. Signifier and Kat Tenbarge)

Episode Date: May 1, 2026

It’s time to podmax. The Internet’s biggest rising star is a 20-year-old from New Jersey named Braden Peters, and he wants your sons to hit their jaws with hammers so they can get girlfriends. Not great! But in my quest to explain Clavicular, I encountered other, bigger problems: a generation of young people who know the American social contract is broken, a generation of older people who don’t care, and a media industry that feeds off rage at the expense of reality.  Listen to bonus episodes on Patreon! Thanks to today’s sponsors! Work smarter, not harder, with Factor meals ready in two minutes at https://www.factormeals.com/fruity50off Start managing your money better and cancel unwanted expenses at https://www.rocketmoney.com/fruity Watch F.D. Signifier on YouTube. Follow F.D. Signifier on Instagram. Read Kat’s work at Spitfire News. Follow Kat on Bluesky. Find me on Instagram. Find A Bit Fruity on Instagram. Learn more about your ad choices. Visit megaphone.fm/adchoices

Not this ASMR. This is a visual-based joke so that people who are only listening to the podcast aren't going to get it. I bought a hammer for this, guys. I'm doing props now. I'm hitting the microphone with the hammer so that it's a microphone fibers will grow back stronger. Matt, I love the reveal that you didn't have a hammer. I'm happy you said it because I thought the same thing like, damn. You got to at least have a hammer.

hammer. You have to go out and buy a hammer. It's a nice one, so it's all, it is neon with grips. 1299, baby. Hello, hello, and welcome back to a bit fruity. I'm Matt Bernstein. I'm so happy that you're here. I recently spent a weekend at a leadership conference where I was invited in my capacity as a podcaster and where most people were a lot older than me. We're going to talk more. about that later. But I got pulled into multiple conversations over the course of the weekend where people wanted me to explain to them clavicular and looks maxing, mostly because they kept hearing those words from their kids. Clivicular is the online pseudonym for the 20-year-old Braden Peters, a radical men's self-improvement in heavy air quotes influencer who advocates for

all manner of aesthetic intervention, including weight loss, GLP-1s, peptides, testes, testes, testosterone injections, a variety of what he calls pharmaceuticals, and at times, crystal meth. He's perhaps most famous for his practice of bones smashing, a pseudoscientific wellness practice that involves taking a hammer to your jaw and cheekbones and creating micro fractures, so the bones will grow back stronger and more pronounced. Heavy on pseudoscience, it's not real, please don't do it. Clivicular has millions of followers across platforms, and I don't think I need to make a strong argument on the morality or virtue of any of this. But while I conceived of this episode as an explainer on clavicular and his influence on young men,

I've since noticed how much of the existing media about him, which attempts to do the same thing, is not good. I might argue that I'm mugging you right now. Okay, well, you know, that's a fair perspective. Are you mugging May right now? I don't know. So much of the discourse around clavicular centers around what he does and the fact that so many young people watch him, hand-wringing about how to get him off the internet.

But as someone who personally led the charge to get Andrew Tate deplatformed five years ago, I can tell you guys that this type of reporting is at best, small fraction of the story, and at worst, not the point at all. If we can't be genuinely curious about what's happening here and why, we'll just keep mocking young aggrieved people like their zoo animals without changing any of the outcomes. And I get that someone like Clavicular is seemingly begging to be gocked at with his outlandish beauty routine, but I also think the fact that he has millions of devoted followers should call upon us to do a deeper inquiry into the conditions that produced whatever's going on here. Reminder, taking something seriously

does not mean endorsing it. I do not endorse bone smashing. So we're going to take a deeper look today. And to do that, I am so excited to be joined by two of my favorite people. Welcome back to the show, FD Signifier, YouTube leftist video essay King, and Kat Tenbarge, writer of Spitfire News. Welcome to the show, guys. Thanks for having us. So excited to talk about this and hopefully not smash our bones. Yeah, no, no, no bone smashing. I feel pretty satisfied with my bone structure to not employ the use of a hammer. I do have my very first hammer in case anyone ever wants to use it throughout the course of this. Afterwards, you'll begin by learning how to hang up a painting in the apartment instead of smashing your cheap bones in. I don't do that. My boyfriend does. That's the magic of a gay couple.

Before we launch into this, what is your baseline knowledge coming in slash feelings slash whatever? I have, this is my take on clavikul. Clevicular. You got it. This is the Dadaist response to the rise of Jordan Peterson. So Jordan Peterson was this big deal starting in. I feel like, did he start like 2018, 2019 is when he really got his like big blow up. And he dominated the male attention space.

He has since died. What? Smooth to me. No, he's not dead. But according to his daughter, he might as well be. I don't know the full story. It's weird. There's like a brainworm or mold.

I thought that was there already, but continue. Something's going on. He's not the same. He may never return to be present. But whereas Jordan Peterson represent. in this like elder intellectualized misogyny and, you know, a bunch of other things. He was still able to subterfuge a lot of it into academic mumbo-jumbo and, you know, the legitimate credentials he had as a former professor and Youngian philosophy and he had serious debates

with other serious philosophers. And so much like any like major movement, there's always a reactive movement that comes after it. So we go from Jordan Peterson telling boys to clean their room and to get married and, you know, relatively benign things in between the quasi-white supremacist fascistic rhetoric. And that begets Clavicular, who is this like id goblin? He's like the id of what the manispheres's true desires are plus some level of neural divergence. And so it's just really, it's really an interesting kind of profound pendulum swing. Both serve the ultimate same purposes,

but it's just a very different vessel for that. I feel like in seeing clavicular and a lot of these specific trends, like bone smashing and like taking all of these like supplements and chemicals to try to enhance your appearance, it reminds me like of so many of the trends that I've previously seen in eating disorder and self-harm online spaces aimed at, predominantly women and like teenage girls in particular. But this is like the male flavor of a lot of that stuff. And I think that like to your point, FD, like so much of this is on the rise at a time

where like fascism is dominating our politics and our culture. And this is a very like fascistic version of personal appearance. It's obviously it's white supremacist in nature. And in line with those white supremacist values. It's like thinness, this Eurocentric beauty standard that emphasizes things like pronounced cheekbones and being extremely thin and being extremely muscular. And for so long, we've seen like this sort of panic, but not actually any solutions presented around the issue of like, why are young girls and women doing all these things to themselves? And now it's very interesting to see like the way that the media is similarly, but on the flip side. positioning young men engaging in all of these behaviors that are ultimately self-harm.

Like, they are self-harming in the pursuit of a beauty standard. And one of the arguments that I am going to try to make today is that none of what clavicular is doing is, like, new. And frankly, like, that it's not coming from a different place than, like, any, like, diet or weight loss or, like, biggest loser-esque content is, I mean, it's brought to those extremes and I think most notably it's geared towards young men which is why we take sort of a renewed interest in it but anyway we'll get there shall I launch into Brayden Peters early life absolutely not a lot of people know that his real name is Brayden Peters which is a very like it's very like

have you ever seen the the meme of the of the young white like Southern mother holding up the whiteboard she's she's pregnant she's like should I name my kid like Lakin or Braley or Watkin, and it's, this feels like very in that vein. Braden is like the most like elder Gen Alpha name that I could imagine for like a white boy. He's born on December 17th, 2005 in New Jersey. He's raised in Hoboken. His parents were competitive bodybuilders before he was born, which I think is really interesting. It's also very relevant because I imagine that did a lot.

to shape his value system around aesthetics. Dismorphia is extreme. Basically, you have to have body dysmorphia to be a bodybuilder. It's kind of like not possible to not have body dysmorphia and be a bodybuilder. Also, more than likely, anabolic steroid use and the use of other illicit substances to produce a certain look. This starts in the home to pull a somewhat fraught, problematic phrase. A lot of what he's doing right now. And then, as a matter of fact, response to it is probably a byproduct of what he witnessed as a child. And I feel like that's so crucial because oftentimes in looking at young people who have like self-harming behaviors and eating disorder behaviors, we assume that the internet introduced them

to these ideas when like more often than not, they're very complex biosocial disorders that do come from like parents and authority figures instilling these values at a young age and sometimes even the same detrimental behaviors like steroid use. He went to Seton Hall Preparatory High School, which that won't mean anything to most people, but that is very close to where I grew up. I went to public high school, but like we would play Seton Hall and all these like, you know,

sports things that I was not involved in. But I heard he went to Seton Hall and I was like, oh, like you're from down the street. That's crazy. He was by his own telling a real loner growing up. He has always had an obsessive personality as a young person. I mean, he's still young, but as a younger person. He loved Nerf guns and he really loved GTA5, which is a normal thing for young men to love.

He is neurodivergent. He talks about that pretty openly. I think it is a really important part of this story that often gets glossed over because I think now a huge part of his content and unspoken part of it is the spectacle of watching a neurodivergent person handle social interactions, especially in a place as like turbocharged as Miami. Can I send you guys a yearbook photo? Class of 2024. He graduated high school in 2024. Wow. I need to like pull myself back from being being like a boomer now. He graduated in what? It's striking how like almost unrecognizable he is here. Like if you show me

this picture with no other context, I don't think I would immediately say that that was clavicular. Like, knowing that it's him, I can see the similarities, but he looks strikingly different. I don't know. I disagree. Well, maybe it's because I'm older and I've seen, I was a high school teacher and I've seen this. Like, I've seen guys. First off, this is a young handsome man. This is not some type of goober. This is a handsome young man that does not look. so different than the person he's become now to me. I could very easily see it, especially when you add a pretty, we'll say, intense cosmetic routine. I've seen more drastic transformations, in fact. So I don't know. I do get that it is striking in terms of like the vacuousness of his

eyes, the like 1,000 yards there he always has now as he's talking to people. Like, this is clearly him masking, which is this all the conversation. I also think it's interesting because he's never, by his own admission, gotten plastic surgery. And, like, you know, he'll rattle off a list of a million things that he does for his beauty routine. I am of the opinion that a lot of what he's doing doesn't do anything. Like, I think he just, like, went through puberty. This is my opinion. I think he lost weight.

I mean, he talks about being on a GLP one and having formerly used crystal meth to, like, weight loss max. But like, I don't know. I think he like changed up his style. He figured out his hair gel. I don't, I'm with you. I have, like, I don't think he looks that different. Well, I have really bad face recognition. So that could also.

No, we're not trying to gang up on the woman. I swear. Well, okay, I do have to also say. I love that his senior quote is Albert Einstein, a person who never makes a mistake, never tried anything new. Oh, wow. Is that even a real Albert Einstein? quote. Probably not, but it works for him. Sounds made up. It sounds made up. I also just think it's

interesting to note here. I posted on the A BitFrudy Instagram a story just like teasing like, I'm doing a clavicular episode. Someone responded, this could be fake, but they responded, a guy I met on a park bench after a party we went to got raided, knew him, meaning clavicular, and his brother, went to school with him and watched him get beat up. Oof. I don't know. Of course, that could be fake, but I think it's an interesting detail here. I think it would make sense if he was like bullied or just like experienced that type of like culture at a young age. It would track a lot with like kind of his mentality around how to improve yourself in society. Yeah. I think we're lucky he's not a school shooter because being nor a diversion can expose you to so many risk factors around bullying, around

on social ostracism and engaging in Manusferian content, which he admits to doing. The fact that he did look like this, that he was a, he's like 6-1. Shouldn't I know that? Let me Google it. Six-two. Six-two. So probably like six feet, considering the nature of his work. But I say all that to say, like, and I think we're going to get to this, there is like truth to his worldview of like the way you look. being meaningful to how you're treated in society. So as a moderately attractive man who also probably had neurodivergent traits growing up, as a father of a very handsome young boy who has some neurodiversion traits,

I can tell you that when your personality doesn't match the initial impression, that can, in a weird way, create a buffer from some of those worst outcomes. Does that make sense? I've seen him to try to talk to girls. And they're so down. They're so with it initially because he's very attractive. But as he talks, you can see them being like, oh, you're weird. Yeah.

And he doesn't get a drink in the face, but he does, you know, get dismissed eventually. In high school, clavicular was very involved with online forums like looksmax.org, other sort of in-cell-adjacent forums at age 14, which was also around the time of COVID lockdowns, clivocular, who I should say at this point is still just Brayden Peters, begins injecting himself with mail-order testosterone. His parents, Kenneth and Lauren, found out, and every time that they found the testosterone, they would make him throw it away. So he set up a PO box to keep ordering mail-order testosterone.

He graduated high school and began Sacred Heart University, which I believe is in Connecticut in the fall of 2024 and was expelled after just a few weeks for hiding illegal testosterone, but also there is speculation that his involvement with those online looks maxing communities led for them to docks and report him to the school because there's all sorts of bullying that goes on in those forums.

Yep. So needless to say, he was expelled from college after a few weeks, which he now says is like the best thing that ever happened to him, which frankly, you know, he's making a lot of money. So I'm sure he does feel that way. Yeah, depending on your metric of success, it could have been the best thing that ever happened for him. For his health, probably not.

Probably not. Before he really blows up online, which is only in the last year, everybody, he worked as a wage cook at a restaurant in Massachusetts. And it was during this time that he was making this like looks maxing content on YouTube. It really blows up. in the summer of 2025. The COVID part of this is really interesting and like generational to me. I feel like we already are experiencing this and we're already like reckoning with this,

which is that during the period in 2020, where a lot of like kids were doing online school, a lot of people were doing some sort of quarantine. We saw like the rates of people's online engagement just like skyrocket. And even people who were not previously extremely online, like became very extremely online during this time period. And now we're kind of reckoning with like the fallout of that, which is that a lot of people fell down radicalization pipelines. And it's no surprise because like looking at the bigger societal portrait here, people were

scared and anxious and looking for ways to like control their surroundings. We also know that eating disorders, like reported rates of eating disorders, people seeking treatment for eating disorders skyrocketed in these early days of the pandemic because one of the motivations for wanting to like restrict and control your body is knowing that it is one of the few ways you can control what's happening to you. And so I think that is like really inextricably linked with like the earliest days of the pandemic and the quarantine. And like that is a very generational component of clavicular and his like peer cohort to me. I used to do public health. in behavioral health.

There's going to be like some really interesting longitudinal studies in like 15 years about how COVID affected a generation of young people. Both my children who were very young when COVID started and like a person like clavicular who was coming into high school. So starting high school during COVID, a very critical juncture. My oldest son was in second grade when the lockdown started versus my. youngest son who had not started school at all and had to start school on Zoom. And there was like a major difference in like term role in my household trying to like manage my younger sons like everything.

And then when he got to school finally two years later, there was a lot of work to like get the ball rolling with social skills, et cetera. Also he's on the spectrum. So I said to say like that COVID part, I don't even think we're scratching the surface yet. Totally. Braden says he was inspired to start making online content by the likes of Nick Fuentes, as well as other fitness influencers. He's cited Rich Piana as a role model. Rich Piana, a bodybuilder and YouTuber who died in 2017 at the age of 46. Cause of death not completely determined, but was likely from a combination of things including long-term steroid use. It's very telling that his role model is someone who died relatively young because it's just like it goes along with this really nihilistic worldview

where it's like literally like live fast die young like bone smashers get it all yes the more i've gotten into these topics the more i've really wanted to become like an advocate for young people and i don't want people to mistake that as like an advocate for what clavicular is telling young people to do but clavicular and the millions of people who follow him trying to not to jump ahead in my argument notes, they feel that way for a reason. They feel nihilistic like that for a reason. And every time, like, we as the media completely ignore that in favor of just like laughing at these people, we're doing a disservice. And there is a reason. There's, whatever. Okay. Keep going. Anyway, in summer 2025, clavicular enters into a content house with

a number of other young male fitness streamers. The core of their content was around, like, fitness and working out, self-improvement, yada, yada. Clavicular sort of stands out as a shock jock within the context of this content house. He has a habit of saying the N-word. He would just say it to get a reaction out of other people. Like there's clips of him, like, walking into a restaurant and just like saying the N-word and people just kind of like being like, what?

And I don't know, that aspect of his come up is sort of just like pathetic and desperate to me. Pathetic and desperate, yes. Effective. My first ever hit tweet was like Omega racism. Have you ever seen like the Omega racist stuff? Yes. Omega, for those who may not know in the, who are listening, is like a chat app thing where people just were randomly talk to other random people online. and it's a very white thing. And so if you are a person of color of any sort, you're going to get called slurs as soon as it becomes apparent that you're a person of color. And it's always by children. That's for a lot of reasons.

But one thing I pointed out is that for white people, racism is a bonding practice. It's one of the ways of which racism is allowed to, and white supremacy is allowed to reproduce itself so effectively is because the other, is so thoroughly dehumanized over the course of their lives if they're not forced to engage with people of color at an early age. And this is, this thing can be said for queer people, for immigrants, for religious minorities, et cetera, then you get to kind of develop this like casual dehumanization of who they are and what they go through. One of the most, like, famous abhorne examples was the George Floyd Challenge. When after that story went viral and people were seeing the videos of it, There are white people as a joke reenacting the murder of George Floyd and like taking pictures

themselves while standing on someone else's neck. I bring all this up because historically, young white men have found an easy way to get attention is through taboo. And there's few more taboo terms or things they can do than drop racial slurs against black people and make that type of comedy. I said obviously offensive, but I find myself being dispassionate about it because it's almost disconnected from the actual traditional uses of the turn. It's just to bring attention to themselves.

And it works partially in part because of how offensive it is. You know, him doing that is exactly, you know, join the choir essentially. Not join the choir. What's the phrase? You get it. It's like, I hate to always bring him up, but this is what Jeffrey Starr was doing on MySpace in 2005. Yeah.

Literally the exact same thing. He was running around the streets of LA screaming slurs at unhoused people on the streets and getting boosts online because of that. So it's like it's a tried and true engagement strategy for like young, disaffected white men. And the other thing this reminds me of is last year I interviewed this young man named Stephen Ime who is a former looksmaxer and he's a young black college student. And he told me, like, he was really into looks maxing same age as Braden. But he got the unfortunate reckoning with the fact that the community was so racist. He would make content. And then he would be confronted with this reality that, like, he was never going to be considered a like true looks baxter because he's black. And so that was

his moment of like, it pierced the veil of cognitive dissonance. And he was like, this is, this can't work for me. But for someone like Braden, he's getting validation by doing this. Like, the racism is cooked into the recipe of what looks maxing is. As Kat alluded to earlier, the concept of beauty in a Western sense is intrinsically tied to white supremacy. When you go and you look at how, you know, old Western philosophy figures talked about beauty and aesthetics. It was, you know, I don't think they were thinking specifically about racial hierarchy at the time. but they were creating the building blocks of it. Totally.

I mean, to your point, FD, the parasycial bonding experience he was exercising online with a lot of, like, young white men worked. Clivocular blows up on Kick in the fall of 2025. Like, this is all super recent how quickly this all happened. He became one of Kicks' top streamers. Sidebar, if you don't know what Kik is, it is a sort of right-wing-aligned version of Twitch. it was created by the same men who founded steak, a gambling website that a lot of top influencers promote for some ungodly and a soulless reason. The people who made steak made kick after Twitch

banned advertising from gambling websites like steak. So kick became a vessel to advertise steak and attracted content creators to the platform with a generous 95 to 5% split of subscription. revenue, which is basically unheard of. Clivicular begins making up to hundreds of thousands of dollars a month. He became known for streaming constantly, sometimes for hours, sometimes for days at a time. He moves to Miami. He becomes known too for like viral stunts. Like he injected his then 17 year old girlfriend with fat dissolving peptides in her

face to reshape her jaw. Hello, hello. So, editing Matt here, and I had to insert this point that between the time we recorded this episode and when we are uploading it, the teenager we just described whose name is Alexandra Mendoza, who's now 18, has filed a lawsuit against clavicular alleging sexual battery, saying that clavicular gave her too much alcohol to the point where she could not consent to sex, as well as an unauthorized injection of a non-FDA approved drug during the live stream as we just explained to you. So there is that. He, like I said, was advocating for the

pseudoscientific practices like bone smashing, his usage of testosterone, peptide, GLP1s, crystal meth, et cetera, et cetera, et cetera. The content itself, have you guys ever seen clavicular's content? Mainly just through clips. Only in clips from other people. Just through the clipping economy. Yeah. And there is a big clipping economy. Basically, people. People who take like one to two minute clips of clavicular's hours-long streams disseminate them on places like Twitter. Clivoculars live streams, if you've never seen them, they are sort of like a cartoonish depiction of like a Miami high roller.

He is always either in his mansion, which I believe he's now living in the mansion that was previously home to the Bob House, the young only fans girls. Miami is a crazy place. But he's always either in the house, on a boat, or in a nightclub. He's usually surrounded by other looks maxing influencers, young men in tank tops, which I am wearing today. Call that, I don't know, fruity maxing. You know, they all have a look, like astoundingly wide jaws. He's also usually flanked by young women who all look like Tana Mojo.

Gotta Google who that is. Is that going to make my... My history look weird. No, she's at this point, given the circus of influencers we're describing, she's kind of just like a normie at this point. I do now have trouble. I'll see advertisements for like energy drinks, and I'll be like, I literally cannot tell if this is Tanamojo

or if this is a woman who just looks, has made her face look exactly like Tanamojo. Clivocular is oftentimes taking some sort of drug, put a pin in that, and struggles through daily social interactions. He struggles through talking to women at the club. He struggles talking to other men. Like I said, I think an under-discussed part of the whole clavicular spectacle is his neurodivergence.

I don't want to, you know, blow my talking points about the media aspect. But I think it's very purposeful that the mainstream media is not engaging with not just that aspect, but all the other parts of what undergirds what he's doing. know, and how it's working so well for him. I would like to take just a quick minute from the show to give a shout out to Factor for sponsoring today's episode. Don't you just love when you get home after a long day? You open the fridge.

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Why is he doing any of this? And I've boiled that worldview down to the best of my ability, and it is this. the only two things that matter most in life are how much money you have and how you look these are the two main variables that will determine one's success happiness and opportunities professionally and romantically because class ascendance is virtually impossible you might as well do everything you can to ascend your looks by any means necessary what i always say is um you know looks maxing is just another version of self-improvement Yeah. And I'm simply stating that in terms of ascending your sexual market value, which means, you know, how valued you are by women, how easily you're going to succeed in the dating market, it's a lot easier to improve your looks and improve your SMV by that metric than it is to overcome, you know, certain disparities with your finances or improving your status.

And I want to point out here that, like, the more of his content you want to. the more you realize it's just a rather extreme and male-oriented version of content we've all been very familiar with for a long time. The most prevalent and normalized version of this content could be diet and nutrition influencers who teach people how to quote unquote live their best life. Like for decades, Oprah has made weight loss content and she's promoted Weight Watchers. She's promoted GLP-1s using her own weight loss journey as testimony. Dr. Oz. Dr. Oz, Dr. Phil, all of the fake TV doctors with expired licenses.

Now members of our federal administration governing who gets health care. RFK. You know, the biggest loser, one of the most popular reality competition shows in American history, which I think has very comparable messaging to clavicular's content and is similarly deranged. There's a broader worldview to clavicular's content, but people mostly fixate on his looks maxing methods. and they always present it as like this crazy thing and influencers is doing with zero cultural precedent, whereas I think it comes from a very similar place

to content where we've all been familiar with for a very long time. This is part of a pattern I see a lot in culture where men start experiencing something that women have been experiencing forever and it's treated as like a wholly unique phenomenon, which it's not. I think there's a lot to gain from understanding clavicular and his career and his popularity

through the lens of eating disorders, which I'm teeing cat up because this is her sweet spot. This is not an unprecedented phenomenon at all. This is the logical conclusion of our entire culture around beauty. And there's this amazing book that I have behind me called Pixel Flesh by Ellen Atlanta that is geared toward women and like strictly is about women's experiences, but it applies so well here too. because this idea that we feed young people, which is that like your worth is inherent.

It doesn't matter how you look. Like what people value is your kindness, your trustworthiness, your relationship building, your honesty, your integrity. None of that pans out in the real adult world. It is literally the opposite. So when we tell young people that your looks don't matter, we are lying to them because the truth is your looks matter quite a lot. You are less likely to face discrimination, bullying.

You're likely to get better opportunities economically, personally, professionally. People in everyday interactions will treat you better. You're more likely to get an apartment. You're more likely to get a job. All of that does stem from appearance in real life. So these young people's attitudes about the world are not unhinged from reality. They are a direct reflection of like the world we have built for them. And we cannot solve these problems by just telling people to, like, raise their self-esteem or get therapy because they're reacting to, like, the real structural inequalities around beauty standards that are enforced very violently.

Clock it. This is the thing that drives me crazy. Is that people are like, why would someone do this? Because this is the world that you've created. his worldview, I mentioned, is that the two, I mean, it's too extreme, right? He says the only two things that matter are appearance and money. That's not true. And there's, and I want to flesh out why that's not true. And it's especially not true in the romantic sense, by the way. And that's also the part where he leans in heavily, which I disagree with. But this idea that like, you aren't treated differently

based on how you look is also not true. And so much of the critique of clavicular refuses to engage with the reality that he and millions of his followers are responding to. And I'm like, if we can't do that, we're just, we're just like pointing and laughing and doing nothing to solve the problem. I don't know. Am I wrong? No, no, no. You're right. I wanted to add something you said, trigger me. It's not why would someone do that? It's why would a straight man do that? I think that's a big key here. Because I think you alluded to earlier that women have been operating with the same ostensibly, depending on perspective, extreme beauty maintenance industry, industrial complex, maybe even, forever.

And men have had plenty of, like, things about wanting to look good. There's, you know, I grew up watching Hair Club for Men commercials. That was a well-known thing I would see. I can't remember the last time I wasn't marketed erection pills since I was a young, hair loss, you know. So there, there's a lot to it. There's actually maybe in that you can maybe like chime in on this. This is actually like a kind of a back-in queerphobic framework that we're dealing with. It's like they're basically telling them, well, you know, you're straight. So why do you care so much about looking good? A normal guy wouldn't act like this, etc. I think in a weird way he's queering how that presents the world by pulling all these straight men into it, the media people are basically. basically are like, it's really like, as I'm thinking about it, they're basically being like, dude, this is gay. Why are you doing this? Yes. Yes. And like, nobody's having a real conversation about the problem. Well, so I have to say this whole thing of like, a man is doing

all these weight loss techniques and taking steroids and injecting his face with things. I'm like, no one fixated on this story has been to a gay club. in a while because the things that these people are doing. It also makes me think about how, like, you get similar coverage for, like, the new, trendy. Oftentimes it's just kind of an illusion. But, like, you get this sort of coverage for things that, like, Kim Kardashian, for example, does.

Like, when vampire facials became a thing, it's like they're literally pulling blood out of your face and then, like, pushing, like, massaging you with your own blood to, like, theoretically regenerate yourselves or whatever. And like the BBL craze itself, I feel like also reminds me of this. But for years, when you talk about the procedures that women do to themselves, it's similar in that there's a lot of like judgment around that narrative. What's less questioned is the underlying assumption that like women should be doing upkeep to our appearances. Like women should be like caring so much about what we look like. That is like the natural order of things. When men do it, that's the question of his life, why do men need to care about these things?

And it reminds me of the cultural discourse from a couple decades ago around like the metrosexual man, which is a... Is this late capitalism, metrosexual discourse? I think so. I think that's what this is. That just brings me back to my childhood. I probably told this story before on the show, but I remember like going as a kid to buy shoes with my mom at DSW and I picked up a pair of like red converse or something.

And she was like, aren't those a little metro? Like, I'm so traumatized by that word. And then fast forward a few years. And I was like, there's not metro. I'm just gay. It's like, and like for those who don't remember this discourse, like, my remembrance of, like, the metrosexual discourse was basically like, straight men are investing in personal hygiene, clothes that match.

And they're even like doing like, they're buying products for their faces. Like, what's going on? but they're not gay, then why would they do this? What's funny is that's also like a recurring thing through history. There's a Twitter thread where a guy is like marking every like decade. There's like an article like, are men manly anymore? And it like goes from 2010 to 1910. And it keeps happening over and over again because Massa Lennie has always been

a perilous framework through which to try to organize society. While we're on the topic of eating disorders, I just want to add a sort of like a funny sidebar that there is basically a woman's version of clavicular whose name is Liv Schmidt. We don't have time to get really deep into Liv Schmidt today. She is like the head like influencer on sort of like the extreme part of like eating disorder TikTok. She has a very small white woman. Formerly I think like assigned model but now just she sells like a community oriented course of like. of like how to develop like anorexia essentially is what it is. Is that is that right? What'd you say? Like she and clavicular are two sides of the same coin to a ridiculous degree. She has the exact

same worldview. And her worldview is also like you need to be as thin as possible. And that is the way that you will gain like success and opportunities. It's also a grift much in the same way that I think what clavicular is doing is like grifting in the sense that like her own opportunities these are astroturfed. It's like a snake eating itself. It's like she needs to pretend that she's ultra successful in order to sell courses to other like women and girls. And then by making money off of the grifting course, she can actually like stage things in her life that make her appear very, very successful. So it's all kind of an illusion. But both of them sell these like courses just to men versus women. And the Liv Schmidt courses are literally like pay me, you know,

X amount of money a month. And I will tell you. you to eat 400 calories a day and like here's how you're going to do it. And the funny thing about clavicular and Liv Schmitt is that they are essentially the same person and they are also beefing. Now we're getting to the fun part. No, it is so funny. There are clips. I'm going to throw one in here if I can find it.

But like Liv Schmidt has gone on clavicular stream and clavicular accuses Liv Schmitt. essentially of like grifting, of selling her own followers, bad advice. And it's very funny because it's like the Spider-Man meme pointing at each other. I'm like, that's you. You just like be nice. Like, let's just get through this. Let's just be done. I'm being kind to you on the screen.

And like, you're just like over here being rude and making passive aggressive comments. Why would I be nice to someone who's intentionally scamming? I'm being nice. You're giving them improper advice that you're selling for thousands of dollars. Meanwhile, you have no idea what you're talking about. So don't ask me to be nice. I'm simply putting you on the spot that you are not an expert in any of the stuff. You are simply-

I've always done it off my advice. No, no, no. You're leading women completely astray by lying to them, by putting on a front that you're being nice. It's like, no, you're just ignorant to any way that they could actually ascend and improve their life. And if you didn't know, like, if it was totally divorced from the context of who clavicular is, you'd be like, wait, he has a point. Right. Like, live, you're scamming them.

You don't know their bodies. It doesn't even work. And then you're like, wow, he's making a point. And then you go look at what he's selling. And it's the exact same thing. Yeah, yeah. We should certainly touch on the overtly misogynistic elements of clavicular's worldview. He subscribes to and is driven by something I've talked with you on this podcast about

FD, the sexual marketplace value theory or SMV, which is. is an in-cell-derived theory that all people have a numeric value in the dating marketplace, one through ten, primarily determined by money and appearance. He believes women are hypergamous, perhaps more hypergamous than ever, meaning they are exclusively drawn to men above their own rank, which is why it's important as men to reach those top ranks, lest you never get a girlfriend. end. I mean, I think with Kovicier being the topic in particular, it is important to acknowledge the role that desirability and socioeconomic status has in your ability to find love in this country. We live in a capitalist, white supremacist nation. So the more capital and the closer you, your proximity to

whiteness, the better off for you in most cases. In most cases, there are plenty of exceptions. But they wouldn't describe it as that. They, this, you know, according to the insult gods, our Lord and Savior, Elliot Roger, as they would probably say, it's just because women are innately evil and illogical at the same time. The funniest thing that always bonds me about this type of rhetoric in these conversations is that these guys don't ever have girlfriends. They never have girlfriends.

They've never had wives. They've never had functional relationships. they've never, you know, been in love even possibly a lot of them. So it's always like the blind leading the blind, which is what makes it possible because like if I also have never had any romantic anything, then how would I know that this person is grifting me in line? It's done in Krueger effect. If you don't know enough to know what's nonsense, you'll go wholeheartedly into that

nonsense. Like this whole worldview around dating and relationships is immediately shattered once you spend 10 minutes in a normal real world setting. If you just go to like a mall or an amusement park or a restaurant in any like normal place, you will and look around you and look at the people who are in relationships and look at the families and look at the couples. It's obvious that none of this is true. With clavicular, you could genuinely make the case that this 20 year old barely operates in the real world. Like we know from the age of he was spending all of his time, for the most part, in extreme isolation on these, like, extremist online platforms. And then the second that he, like, reaches adulthood or, like, you know,

shortly after he reaches adulthood, he's now basically shuttled around from, like, one influencer space to the other. He doesn't spend time in, like, the real Miami. He goes to these, like, influencer houses. He really lives in this, like, surreal hyper-reality where maybe the illusion that all of the stuff he believes in is not true for the vast majority of people. Maybe that spell is not being broken for him. Yeah. And he will very openly and harshly judge women's appearances in a way that is obviously misogynistic, though I will say he's kind of a rare bird in the sense that he is

almost, if not equally critical of men's appearances, which I think is actually relevant because it speaks to a deeply homo-errorism. erotic element of the whole looks maxing community and its obsession with like men surveilling other men. Yeah. I find his, his nature to be queer in a way, if that makes sense. Oh, say more. I don't know who want to say more because I don't know how I feel about that take.

Clavicular, more like queervicular. It's like the famous quote and now I'm forgetting who it's from, but it's the man-loving quote. Matt, you know what I'm talking about. I do know what you're talking about, which is basically. that like heterosexuality like for men is ultimately man loving because I can't articulate it well. Well, it's basically just the idea that like, and you see this so clearly in like the clavicular model of like how he evaluates men and women, which is like ultimately it's in the pursuit of like

the ultimate male form, which includes being surrounded by women who love and admire you because of how, like, structured your face is. But, like, his obsession, his aesthetic obsession, his values, his judgments, they revolve around other men. Like, he's obsessed with the male form more than anything else. And so in that sense, his whole ideology is very, very male loving. And another interesting thing that doesn't apply so much to clavicular, but, like, just in general, the Manosphere is obviously very misogynistic.

It's all, like, rooted and threaded through with misogyny. So is this, like, beauty standard. culture for women. It's also very misogynistic in the online pro-eating disorder, pro-self-harm spaces that I've reported on. Women are oftentimes expressing feelings of like hatred at themselves. Like this self-harm component is very like an expression of internalized misogyny. So it's interesting that like throughout this whole culture on both sides of like the gender split, the two things at the bottom that unite at all are racism and misogyny. And like that is the foundation of this whole culture.

Are you all familiar with Yaoie? Oh, yeah. So that, the fact that Matt's the one person is like, no. Who? Wait, you know. You know what Yaoie is, Matt. It's not even, is Yaoie gay? Because like, Yowie.

Yowie. How do you spell this? Y-A-O-I. It's erotic. It's gay erotic manga. Oh. And or romance. I'm looking at the pictures.

This looks, these, these, I don't know, this looks nice. I'm bringing it up because... Or no, is that not good? Well, I mean, it depends on... I'm not going to say whether it's good or not because I've heard a lot of different arguments. Yawi does have some issues with it in that... And the reason I bring it up a clavicular.

Yawi is on the surface no ostensibly queer, but it's done in a way clearly to appeal to straight women. And so it doesn't really humanize queerness as much as it's just a fetishization of male power and aesthetics. And all the Yawi guys look like clavikian. Like you won't get too far into any one of them to find at least one of the characters will look like clavicular. There's something to that.

I don't, I haven't, I'm not quite fruity enough myself to really, to really dig into this. But I really think there's a there that I look up. I shout out to whichever queer creator is going to do the, queer and clavicular video, but there is a clear, queer, upheaval of traditional masculinity to allow him to do this very male-centered, very Greek, like the Greeks and the Romans were notoriously had same-sex lovers. It wasn't queer, though, right? Mm-hmm.

It was about power. It was an extension of masculinity that they would have male lovers to. And so that's kind of what I'm getting at. It might not surprise you to learn that as clavicular blew up, he was quickly absorbed into the mainstream mannosphere with people like Andrew Tate, Sneco, Myron Gaines, Nick Fuentes, and the like, despite not identifying as a political streamer himself. His pension for misogyny, obsession with male hierarchies,

and willingness to say outrageous things made him a natural fit regardless. I will say, clavicular never had the same relationships to overt politics as a lot of these figures. during an interview with conservative podcaster Michael Knowles, clivocular said that he would vote for Gavin Newsom over J.D. Vance, if those were the two 2028 candidates because Newsom Muggs Vance. Next election cycle, who's going to win? It's going to be Gavin Newsom against J.D. Vance because J.D. Vance is subhuman and Gavin Newsomogs. J.D. Vance is subhuman?

Yeah. What makes you say that? He's got a very short, total, facial width to height rate. ratio. He's obese, very recess side profile, whereas Newsom is like 6'3 Chad. His relationship to the overtly political mannosphere peaked in January 2026 when he and all of the figures I just listed went out to a Miami nightclub together, requested the DJ play H.H. Or Heil Hitler by Kanye West and sang along to it. After which the Miami mayor released a statement condemning it.

Clivocular then met with several Jewish nightclub owners and posted a photo with them on Instagram with the caption, No More Politics, Just Mogging. Which is an awesome quote. It is. That's going to be someone else's high school yearbook quote. No more politics. Just mocking. Oh, I kind of love that.

This is also like, this is what I mean, what I'm. like there's a hyper reality to like clavicular's life. It's a Tim and Eric skit. Yes. And like the way that he exists in Miami at times, like I'm like, this is not real life. This is not like real Miami. These are like these bizarre groups of men who are on camera. It's like reality TV.

It's staged for the purpose of online performance. And they're all kind of melting their brains by doing it and not engaging with reality. Yeah. Also, if you've felt lost at any point, my dear listener, I want to establish a few key terms. Probably should have done this earlier, but magging, going full boomer, magging is, it's like outshining someone and it can be a suffix on any word, status, mauging, looks mugging, money magging. Maxing is doing something to the extreme, which can also be a suffix on anything like looks maxing.

Well, actually, I think I have to correct you. I have to correct you. I'm going to language maug you really good. Definition mark you. Okay, please, please, please. It's important. The caveat is that maxing isn't to the extreme is to the greatest possible extent of the individual. And that's where you get like jester maxing.

I remember when I first heard this with trans maxing a couple of years ago, Does y'all hear about that one? Tran? With in sales. Like being as trans as possible? Yeah. So one of the things that the insicel community, which is also very artistic, autistic, artistic, artistic, godly.

I'm opposite of logging with language now. There was like a whole, it went viral, like a post within their world, basically saying if you're a slim wrist, scrawny, short male, you actually can transmax to be a mid-tiered female. essentially what they were saying. That if you were, if you had... The concept of like trans-friendly looks maxers, I live. No, it is. Well, friendly is a, it's a...

It can do a lot of work there. But like, yeah, they were basically like, look, if you are too ugly as a guy, you may actually have a chance as a woman. But that's where I first learned the framework of maxing to be an individual journey. Sorry. Thank you. For intellect maxing me or intellect magging me. Fuck.

This has convinced me more than anything else that euphoria creator Sam Levinson must be an insal. Oh yeah. Oh yeah. Oh, yeah. I knew Cat was going to find a way to complain about Sam Levinson in here somehow. All of this seems to track with whatever the ideology of euphoria is as well. Do you guys mind if I pee really, really fast? No, go for it.

I'm actually going to join you. Well. All right, whatever. We're bathroom maxing. Be right back. Just wanted to take a quick break from the show to give a shout out to Rocket Money for sponsoring today's episode.

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It's because it's a meme. It's so easily memeable. It's fine. I'm a set of the argument that black women and black queer people are the like originators of all internet culture. But the insales and the four chanters, they might be second. Low key. Yes.

There's a handful of things they've done that I have to say they cooked with. not for just the comedic utility. Unfortunately, it's usually related to racism and sexism and homophobia or whatever. But if we can reclaim, I would like to reclaim maugging. That's the end of this video. Reclaiming. Reclaim maulging. Do you guys want to do a little media critique, Maxing?

Absolutely. Yes. So like I said at the top of the episode, I conceived of today's show as an overview of clavicular's rise and the negative effect he has on young men. I think we've done that up to this point. But then I watched the media. media's coverage of him, most of which comes across as belligerently unwilling to engage at all in the world that produced clavicular and made him famous and realize that if I didn't do that,

I'd be wasting your time and doing this subject a disservice. So I essentially just watched hours and hours and hours of clavicular interviews, and I've pulled a bunch of clips for us to talk about. I want to start with a clip from clavicular's interview with Adam Friedland, which was, by the way, the least bad interview. In it, Clavicular is explaining why he'd rather invest in his looks than in student loans. You could help people doing medical school. I would never go back to school. I'm already doing good enough on social media where I can't even think about the word school in a serious context.

You could be a doctor. It's a good job, no? No, doctors. But you know all this stuff. Do doctors agree with the stuff you're saying right now? Doctors are... You're rogue. I'm telling you, listen to this.

These people are literally going to school for 10 years, accumulating a... A... ...a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a-a. where you could beat any looks disparity. So it just doesn't really make sense to me. Okay. Like, I have something to say.

I'm ready to hear it. It is very hard to acknowledge any level of rationality within the things clavicular says without it coming across as an endorsement of his whole shtick. I'm aware of that. And for the sixth time, I'm not endorsing his whole schick. I'm not endorsing you to invest your student loan money in plastic surgery as he goes on to argue for saying it won't get you in that much trouble.

But he is speaking to a generation of young people. Boys and girls, by the way. He has a large audience across the gender spectrum. I don't know if there are a lot of non-binary clavicular fans, but, you know, who have real feelings about the world that this type of rhetoric is tapping into. And I want to say with regard to his specific referencing of like, why, become a doctor when I could just look smacks and be an influencer. I just listened to a whole thing about private equity firms buying up medical practices

and how a lot of doctors in places like New York City just helped elect Zoran Mamdani because increasingly doctors who we've always thought are the epitome of like you've made it. You own your own practice. You have freedom. You aren't part of the working class if you're a doctor. But guess what? When private equity firms start buying up your medical practices and turning you into an employee with strict quotas of how many patients you have to see and how long you can spend with each one, while now doctors are increasingly identifying as workers. So I think the class analysis here is really interesting. I was just about to say this is a perverted materialist analysis he is giving to us.

Exactly. Because what strikes me about clavicular is he often correct. identifies the problems facing his generation, but offers obviously horrible solutions. But my problem, though, is that the mainstream media coverage of him, which Adam Freeland's not exactly mainstream media coverage, and so I'm not even referring to this interview, but a lot of the coverage can't even concede that he's tapping into real generational despair. Yes. You know? Yes.

Yeah. So the media, the media's role in general is to be a function of the state in so many ways. That's why, even what we're doing now, while we are all independent, right, we don't answer, I'm assuming we don't answer to like greater resources, except for a sponsor or two. Even the way these algorithms function, they function for the purpose of manufacturing consent, even when you want to be transgressive or radical, whatever, then it's like, okay, but how can we atomize you as much as possible? How can we create rage cycles with you and your audience? How can we make sure that you're fighting with Hassan or, you know, insert other figure here instead of actually, you know, building

power. And I'll say what to say, but they're still very mainstream media, which is not being watched by us as millennials, which is only being watched by boomers and older, for them, it's to reaffirm this image of young people's despair as a bunch of silly kids eating tidepots, you know, that don't want to, don't want to show early for work and don't want to. work hard like we did during the good old days when when men were men and didn't bone smash. And so like it doesn't surprise me that you're describing the media as treating it. They did this to PewDiePie. Now, it's becoming harder for them because now more and more, they have to engage with

a clavicular in order to bring eyeballs to them because nobody around his age is watching mainstream news. But what it comes down. to us, they can't engage with him critically because that would mean engaging with everything critically, you know, and their viewers don't want to hear that. A hundred percent. When I first started reporting on influencers, it was around the time that studies were coming out, like surveys showing that a huge percentage of like Gen Zers and now Gen Alphaers, like their

dream job was influencer. And a lot of the adults in the room reacted to this by saying, like, this generation. is so self-centered, so selfish. The idea was that this was the fault of the young people, that this was a character flaw, and that the reason why they wanted to be influencers instead of astronauts or scientists is because they were just like bad people. When the reality is the reason that young people want to be influencers is because they see that it is one of the only pathways to actually like moving upwards in class. It is one of the only ways. It is one of the only ways all of the traditional pathways are broken. And in fact, like the millennial experience has

informed the Gen-Lafa attitude because millennials did everything, what they were told to do. They took out the student loans. They went to four-year colleges. They got bachelor's degrees. They even got master's degrees. They even got PhDs. And then they were ejected into a job market where there were no roles for them. And they have to work regular working class jobs just to try to survive and pay back those loans. And we hear about this all the time, the younger generations. So of course we don't want to make the same mistakes. Of course, we want to follow the other pathway that is so visible to us that the mainstream media, despite questioning this, has like broadcast to us, which is like, oh my gosh, all these young people don't even have to

work hard and just make millions of dollars on the internet. And the sad reality is that that's not true either. Influencing is also not a pathway to guaranteed or like lazy forms of success, but that's like the new generational fallacy. And young people like feeling this way is not crazy. It is informed by like what actually happened to the generation before us. Yes, 100 million percent. It's the new American dream. And I want to take the pin out of that conference, that leadership conference that I mentioned at the very beginning of the episode that I was at, with all of these people who are older than me, and very few of whom spend a good amount of time on the internet.

And a lot of them worked in tech, and a lot of them work in AI. And I can tell you, and I was so excited to record a podcast where I could tell people this, that, by the way, guys, when it comes to the future and securing a future that has job stability for young people,

the emperor has no clothes. all of these people will say, yes, you know, it's going to change up the job market, but young people understand AI and young people will know how to turn this into new job categories. They have no plan. And we already know that AI is eating the bottom rung of jobs in all of these different industries, leaving young people no path to enter those industries to begin with. And young people, while they might not be able to articulate the very nature, of all of this, they know that those opportunities are gone. That is where this nihilism comes from. They know about AI. They know the future that has been guaranteed to young people for the past

several decades with college leading to jobs, et cetera, is gone. So when clavicular says, why take out all these student loans when I can just be an influencer? Well, you can laugh at him all you want. But guess who else feels that way? Basically everyone, his age and younger. Yep. Yeah. So I'm my older Molina, I'm 43, right? I'll be 44 in about a month. You know, I'm of like the last past the post in terms of like, hey, all these structures that we raised you all on and set up for you guys, they actually work. And like literally, I crossed the finish line just before they all became completely dysfunctional. They were kind of breaking down when I got there, but it was just halfway functional enough that I could make something out of myself without a

ever becoming an influencer, right? But you have to be reminded that's Kat kind of alluded to that the rest of these kids, the younger millennials and now the disease and eventually the alphas, they're like, this is bullshit. What are you talking about? What do you mean work hard get a job? Like you? Yeah. Yeah, they know it's a joke. Ironically, I have found, like, in my years of, like, working for various mainstream media companies within the media ranks, I think that there is this sort of like resentment toward influencers because I think a lot of people working for the mainstream media actually blame the symptoms to be the cause. Like mainstream journalists, that job market has never been great. And now it is literally like it is the last remaining people who are

about to be pushed off of a cliff. And I think a lot of journalists feel like influencers took our jobs. And so a lot of the coverage of influencers and of social media platforms is very resentful and very angry and very, like, they want to stick it to them. They want to humiliate influencers. They want to, like, knock influencers down a peg. But unfortunately, like, now it's reaching a really interesting point in, like, journalism culture because so many journalists are influencers now. Right.

They got to get that substack popping. Exactly. Many of the journals who are still at these major publications are, like, clinging to that idea that, like, influencers are the enemy instead of the reality. which is like our economic mode of capitalism has failed. We are like all plunging into an abyss together and like taking shots at like someone else who's just trying to like survive and thrive

is not going to help anybody. That's how I feel watching a lot of this coverage. Speaking of which, Clavicular did an extremely viral interview with a notably handsome interviewer for 60 Minutes Australia. The interview is about an hour long, focuses heavily on clavicular's looks-maxing tactics, particularly bone-smashing, and the interviewer is smirking, borderline laughing through the whole thing.

And look, on one hand, I can understand why, but it all just comes across to me as extremely incurious. And for a serious journalistic outlet, like 60 minutes, to be taking this approach, struck me as just, like, not doing your job. Are you mugging me right now? Well, in what metric? Annie? Um, status mogging.

What do you mean by that? I mean, uh, like I might be status monging you maybe. I don't know you're fine, like potentially, uh, money mogging, who's to say, right? I just, I don't know, but like, you know, those are different types of mogs that you could achieve on someone. It doesn't only pertain to looks, right? So there's all types of mogs. Well, your whole persona and schick is about appearance and looks, right?

So would you say your looks mugging me right now? I can't really, can't really see you to be fair. It's kind of hard with the light. The camera's quite far away. So I'll just give it to you. Really? Yeah. I mean, I can't see.

Why did they leave this in? The whole interview is like that. Also, he's saying I can't see you super well because they're not in the same room and he's looking at a laptop screen of this guy that's far away and the light is in his face. And even still, it strikes me, God, like these fucking bad interviewers have turned me into a clavicular defender. It's so void of substance. And like I said, all of these interviews are like, do you think you're hotter than me?

I'm like, you're 60 minutes. Clivicular, clavicular is like 20 and like, you know, doing some crazy shit. But like, what's your excuse? It's really interesting to me that clavicular almost sounds like a resigned college professor explaining to a freshman student. Like, what you think is not accurate, I'm trying to explain to you the basis of my culture and you're just sitting here asking me on serious questions. Which I actually appreciate.

Like, I appreciate the farce in at all. to an extent. I often don't get to see straight white men, like, try to explain the nuances of a, of a culture. So I'm just straight to my man to get frustrated. That was novel. But, yeah, it's, it's, there's, it's very breathy. And I'm just like somebody, somebody on TikTok needs to just do, was animatic of that as Yowie. Because that is how Yowie goes. That's how it goes. It's a yuki and semi. Uki and Simi.

There's two, like, roles of dominance. The unciriousness of it just leads me to continue down that path. Clavicular is like the Connor story and the interviewer is like the Hudson Williams. If this was heated rivalry. This is not where I thought this was going. And like, okay, another critique of this that I often have of how like mainstream media covers influencers is like the content that is, like, the content that is, being created, whether it's a 60 Minutes episode or like a 60 minute long YouTube video, they are competing in the same environments for the same theoretically like audience pool.

And a lot of times like mainstream media is subjected to the exact same dynamics that online content creators are. And we talk about this with online content, like how striving for virality tends to flatten things because you are going to get more attention with like a quick snappy clip out of context than with a lengthy nuanced discussion that actually like probes systemic factors. And we criticize like viral content and social media content for these dynamics. But the exact same dynamics also exist in mainstream media where there is more value to creating a clip. You're going to get more viewers. You're going to go more viral. If you have a clip of an interviewer asking clavicular, are you magging me right now? Then if you have an interviewer asking

clavicular about like generational despair and economic anxiety. So really, these are two people trying to do kind of the same thing. And that becomes very obvious when you have these interactions like this. And to that end, the interviewer then asks clavicular if he believes what he says. And this is how it goes. It's a fascinating talking to you. I feel like you're a very different person face to face and the persona you give out online. Do you believe half the stuff, you say? Do I believe half the stuff I say?

So what are you saying? I'm inauthentic. I'm just curious that is a lot of what you say on your videos and online about gaining attention more than necessarily it being what you truly believe? In terms of streaming, yeah, A lot of the activities that I do, like clubbing every day, you know, doing certain activities like that, is that something I would do if I wasn't a content creator?

No. So that part is, I guess you could say, just for virality. You know, I'm a pretty sheltered person. I like to spend time to myself, ideally. So all those experiences where I'm going out in about. talking to people. Maybe that's not the most real version of myself, but everything I talk about in regards to looks maxing in my philosophy, that's 100% real. What in earnest response about how he is performing for cameras because he believes that that's all he can do. And to a certain extent,

like, I don't know, is he wrong? No. Well, to clavicular's point, which is something I never thought I would say. The reaction online to this interview that I saw, the viral reaction to this interview, don't, we're going to get to it. We're going to get to it. We're going to get to it. My lips are sealed. Let's watch another clip.

The interviewer then says that he thinks personality and character matter more than appearance. See now, I would disagree and make the argument, clap. that character, personality, maturity, intelligence are far more important than appearance. Do you think I'm wrong? Well, bingo, there it is, but those are all perceived entirely differently, once again, based on your looks. So you're absolutely correct. You're just forgetting that key piece of nuance that is kind of the reason that my message resonates so well. So what is reaction to that?

Because he's not lying. He just laughs and moves on to the next question. But it's so amazing to me because, like, if you go to the YouTube video of this interview that 60 Minutes Australia posted, everyone is like, it's so funny watching this interviewer slowly realize clavicular is insane. I'm like, where? I hate, I hate, like, it's, people are going to be like, oh, you're defending it. But it's like.

Oh, man. It's clavicular, the leftist prince that is, was, promise. They just don't realize it. He's not, he's obviously, I know you're not being serious, but it's like he is correctly identifying the problem. He's giving the wrong solution, but he's identifying the problem. And the interviewer is like laughing and just being like, that's not true. It's like, hello, you're a gorgeous man doing an on-screen interview. Why do you think that is? Right. Poorly. This is, again, like, this feeds into the nihilism of the young, because young people aren't stupid.

And like you see Donald Trump in office and then you get out of here and you're like, being intelligent and kind is what matters most. Clearly, that's not true. It all contributes to the decline in institutional trust. Because when people sit there and tell you things that so blatantly contradict with reality, like you hear that enough times and you're just like, oh, all of the institutions are lying to me. Like this is how I feel like a lot of young people are sort of like radicalized.

into nihilism and then also these extremely toxic subcultures because it feels like someone is finally telling them the truth, even if what is actually being told is this very like skewed portrait of reality. But at least it seems to hit on something that like the mainstream media is not willing to say. The interviewer persists. But see, I disagree, Clash. I don't think appearance is as important as you're suggesting. Hmm. Do you think that if you were bald, if you were fat, that you would be doing this interview, that you would be a journalist? Yeah. Yeah, I do.

Well, I would tell you that it's very unlikely that you would have the career that you do if you didn't have, you know, the looks package. You know, that's really what it comes down to. Like, you'll see a lot of media personalities. with full hides of hair generally in shape, and that's what it comes down to. See again, I disagree. Do you not think they're a bold, overwhite journalists? Of course I do, but I'm just saying you would have had to overcome that disparity by being a lot better in other metrics to have the career that you do. Oh, he's woke maxing right now. He's literally just describing

lookism, which we know is a real, like prejudice based on attractive. Like, we know that that's a real thing. If the interviewer was like, had like thought some of this through and actually prepared a thoughtful interview, and I don't mean to like dog on 60 Minutes Australia, but like engage with the reality that this person is living in because so is like, we all are. And for you to just be like, well, that's not true. Who are some of the most successful on-screen male broadcast journalists, Anderson Cooper, David Muir, attractive, fit men with full heads of hair, and white, by the way, and jizzled jaws. Yeah. Yeah. I mean, like, it's pretty ridiculous to assert the claim that, like, tons of people who don't conform to the beauty standard are successful

in very visible positions because it's just not reality. And while, yes, there are a lot of journalists who don't conform to beauty standards, like, or aren't conforming in, like, the highest echelon of beauty standards. Those are not usually the people on camera. Like, your pathway in life is going to change based on how people perceive your appearance. This should not be, like, controversial to say because it's just reflected in, like, all of the available data and reality that we live in. What we're actually witnessing in a surreal way that I wasn't expecting before we started this call is the rejection of clavicular in the process of protecting white supremacy. It's not a sentence I thought I was going to make.

But what clavicular is like the white supremacy's greatest trick is maintaining invisibility in society, maintaining imperceptibility. You're not supposed to notice white supremacy. In a recent video, I compared it to dark matter in like the universe. I don't know if anybody's like a science nerd, but dark matter. is literally what makes up most of the universe, not stars or proton clouds or whatever, but like literal matter you can't see. But when the, when scientists analyze the math behind the universe, they had to make up the

concept of dark matter in order to make the universe function properly. So you don't know it's there, but it's the most thing around us. Same thing with white supremacy. What this interviewer would have to engage with is the, uh, white and patriarchal nature of how he is privileged in Western society as not just a good-looking, and not just a man, but a good-looking straight white man means that he started from at least four or five notches ahead of all of his would-be competitors. And it's not a surprise that we've only had straight white male presidents that most of them do not, like Donald Trump is anomalous in

that he looks like a weird cartoon character figure. Most of them do look like who we talked about earlier, that Mawks, J.D. Vance. Oh, Gavin Newsom, yeah. Most of them look like Gavin Newsom, you know, that is not an accidental thing that is structural and systemic. And so this looks-maxing thing is accidentally kind of materialist in its breakdown of societal forces. And in doing that, and then platforming him, they have to completely ignore that part in order to maintain the narrative around, you know, it's a personality that matters and hard work and bootstraps and hustle, et cetera, et cetera. And he's like, you know, actually the structural framework of lookism and race means that I can be here talking to you versus a woman or woman of color, whatever. So it's actually hilarious, you know, to have to be on the other side of this conversation, defending the woke critique of based clavicular internet kids, we can say.

I actually wrote here in my notes, this would be like getting an influencer who advocates for the use of skin lightning cream on for an interview and then being like, well, why would you do that? The world's not racist. It's like, well, neither of you are, what? Like, no, it's, it's, and this is the fundamental conservative worldview of clavicular, right? he's saying the world has all of these structures and he's correct he's correct in identifying them and he's saying that's just the way it is so you might as well try your hardest to survive and come out

on top lest you be a loser and get left behind but this interviewer is doing nothing for anybody least of all the viewer by ignoring the reality that clavicular is saying we should all just do our best to survive under like the leftist critique here is like yeah we have a world that values those things and prioritizes attractive people in all sorts of ways, and we should fight against that. Yeah. Yeah. This reminds me of a conversation I had with someone online where they were like, Demi Moore,

the star of the substance. They were critiquing her fineness and saying like, well, she just started a movie that was about how bad beauty standards are. And I'm like, you misunderstood the plot of the substance. You misunderstood what the substance was trying to say. The point of the substance is not just like beauty standards are bad. The point of the substance is that women in the entertainment industry have to conform to impossible standards of beauty or else they will lose economic opportunities. They will be ejected once they surpass a certain age, no matter how well they conformed in their use.

And that's what people misunderstand about so much of this culture is like it is inherently conservative because it doesn't want to change these systemic realities. But also like we can't deny that those systemic realities exist. Because to do that would also not solve any of them. It's just pretending the problem isn't real. Somebody just needs to hand this guy a couple of books and we'll see what happened. We'll have two Hassans. We could fix clavicular. Wait, you mean clavicular or the journalist?

No, cubicular. I think they could both read personally, but no shade. The last clip I want to play for you from this interview is at the end when he asks if clavicular is happy. You don't give off this sense that you're incredibly happy and fulfilled. I'm wondering, Clav, do you live a happy, fulfilling life? I would say for the most part I do. I just generally don't want to be doing this right now. I had something else I had to do.

What am I keeping you from? I wanted to go to a club. Is that your idea of fun going to the club? Well, I mean, maybe it's not the most enjoyable activity, but it would certainly be a lot more fun than this. No offense. What does he like to do? I mean, it's hard to know what he actually likes to do

because he just does whatever he needs to do for his like 24-hour streams, which is like going out and then going home and then going out and then going home. But it's just so fun. as this whole interview unwinds, and I watch the full hour. And this guy just becomes like Fox News. It's like, oh, really?

You want to go to the club? Is that what you think is fun? Like, yeah, he's fucking 20. Yeah. I hate how much I have to like fucking advocate for fucking clavicular. But he's 20 years old. Of course he wants to go to the club instead of doing this dog shit 60 minutes interview. Anyway.

Unfortunately, he humor-mogged the interviewer a lot. That was revealing and astounding. And I mean, it makes to come back to that initial take of like the thing that people sometimes missed about Jordan Peterson. And really all of the Manifera folks is that they are responding to the material world in a maladaptive way. Right. The reason why these entities are powerful and require us to struggle against them is because they provide community. two young men, a more diverse group of young men than people often realize that are incapable of getting it elsewhere due to the ravages of capitalism and late capitalism. To have someone like

beforehand, a Jordan Peterson who felt like an elder, you know, for a generation where a lot of people were fatherless or inadequate fathering in the home to, you know, to engage with their emotional cores that are neglected creates connection, which is what everybody's missing. They're missing connection to other people. And so for whatever reason, clavicular and his lifestyle makes people feel connected. If you don't acknowledge why that's possible, you're just kind of making content, you know? That's what this really is. Just content. Exactly. For ad space. Here's where we can take the pin out of what the broad reaction was to this interview, which Kat, do you want to say? Well, everyone was like, it's so funny that they put clavicular with this really hot Australian broadcaster.

And people were like, he's actually hotter than clavicular. And that was the main takeaway. I saw people like, takeaway from this interview was like, actually the broadcasters hotter than him. The only tweets I saw with hundreds of thousands of likes were like, oh, I bet. clavicular is shaking in his boots because the interviewer is hotter than him. And I'm like, guess whose worldview you are reinforcing right now? Yep. Jesus. It's very silly to me. And like honestly, like scrolling through any social media platform on any given day will reinforce clavicular's worldview, which is why he has it. Because if you are a young person who is spending a lot of

time on social media, as all people for the most part now are, then of course you're going to walk away with this worldview because that is how people treat you. They make snap judgments based on your appearance and then that dictates how they respond to anything that comes out of your mouth. Right. Wow, business. Around this time, Clavicular also does an interview with Peers Morgan, which is just similarly a joke on the part of Peers Morgan. Here's a clip. I might argue that I'm mogging you right now. Okay, well, you know, that's a, that's a fair perspective. Go for it.

For those who don't know what I just said, what does mugging mean? Basically outshining someone looking better than them. And there's different types of mogs, right? There's status mocks. There's, you know, money mocks. So, you know, you might have me in those categories, but I think we need to add in a little bit of nuance that it's not a looks mug, you know. You would say that you have.

the edge over me in looks mogging. I think I might have you by just a small margin. I don't know, but that could be attributed to youth, you know. So who knows, back in the day. A lot of women find the older dude, a lot of women find the older dude more appealing than the young pimply youth, you know? Well, you know, absolutely. Can I just say, this is farcical.

Clivicular could not have been nicer in this situation where, Pears Morgan is like, oh, do you think your look smogging me? And Clivocular in that situation, could have a good impression, Matt. He could have literally said anything and Clivocular was like, maybe by just a hair, but also I have youth on my side. And then Pears responds by calling him pimply. What? This is content, though. This is content.

It is. And I also think that Peers Morgan and Clivicular are speaking the exact same. language. When Pierce Morgan says a lot of women actually find older guys more appealing, notice he says appealing and not attractive. Because what does Pierce Morgan think that women find more appealing about older men? The fact that they tend to have more money and more power and more status. And ultimately, this very misogynistic worldview that Pierce Morgan also possesses is not too dissimilar from clavicular's worldview. It is just a new generation of like rhetoric around men, women, and the value that they have to provide to each other. But it's all

rooted in the exact same thing. This is what frustrates me about content creation amongst us. I haven't watched too many clavicular videos and no shades of different creators, but all of them have mostly done a lefty intellectual version of what Pierce Morgan just did, right? It's mostly just like, isn't this guy weird? And I hadn't seen anyone engage with the critique that clavicular presents to society. And now even more so, because I noticed, you know, the phrase, everything I've learned about this person is against my will. So that's been me with clavicular, right? But I've, I noticed how he has been everywhere, 60 minutes, Adam Friedland, so on and so forth. And I'm like, man, this is a lot of media attention for a guy that clearly doesn't have

a whole lot to say. And it isn't even though, like, it's not that engaging. You all have ignored all the other assets of the Manisphere, why is this one in particular of such importance to platform in all these spaces? And I realize it's because he's saying the quiet part out loud about the structural frameworks of our society, and they need to engage with it in order to pillory it so it sounds silly. Because this is maybe a bit of a reach. There's a framework of analysis happening here that a handful of these people might catch when to and then they might fuck around and hear this podcast and then start reading some shit and then suddenly you have critical theory maxing you know what I'm saying?

Inshallah, inshallah. Right, hopefully. This wish we're thinking obviously, but my point is that you can't identify the dark matter. It has to remain invisible. and he's doing that. And they're like, no, you're silly. You're silly. I'm maugging you.

I think that that's really true. And I also think that, and again, this reinforces clavicular's worldview. But I suspect that another reason why, like, all of these media outlets are willing and eager to profile him is because he is an attractive young man. Like, again, not endorsing the things he's done to get there. But, like, he has succeeded in becoming very complacent. conventionally attractive. I think he was to begin with, going back to that yearbook photo. But like, Asmond Gold is a influencer who has a much bigger audience, I think, than clavicular. And you never see the mainstream media talk about that guy. And he is not conventionally attractive.

And I think that is a big point. Why? I think, like, news agencies famously love interviewing hot people and spotlighting hot people's stories. Because again, I hate to say it, but two clificular's point, you will be more visible in society if you conform to these beauty standards. And like, if you really wanted to talk about people who are influencing young men, you would see more of this, like, cast of male characters online, but you don't. The news doesn't even know that a lot of those guys exist. They literally are invisible to them because they're not bone smashing. On April 14th, 26, just a couple weeks ago, clavicular was at a Miami bar with his fellow looks maxer and friend, former friend, Androgenic, where he looked extremely out of it, kept reiterating

how fucked up he was on whatever drug he'd taken as he walked around this nightclub with his camera crew and fans coming up to him taking selfies before he dropped onto a bench on the side of the club. Andrew Jenick offers him more Adderall. When did you last take blue? You want Natty? You want Natty? Then clavicular goes unconscious and slides onto the ground as cameras cut out. iPhone footage from onlookers show a crew of people rushing him into an ambulance.

He was brought to the hospital and treated for an overdose. There's no confirmation on what exactly he overdosed from, but it's rumored to have been a cocktail of drugs, including GHB. He returned to the internet the following day with a tweet. Just got home. That was brutal. All of the substances are just a cope trying to feel neurotypical while being in public, but obviously that isn't a real solution. The worst part of tonight was my face descending from the life support mask, and included was a selfie where he has sort of cuts all over his face, perhaps from falling over, it's unclear. And the following night,

he was back on stream helping open a club in Miami. The worst part of, I'm trying to understand what he says. We said the worst part tonight was my face descending from the life support mask. Like, did he like fall? Like, what does that mean? Wait, you know what I just realized? It was the life support mask that cut up his face because in the world of looks maxing, ascending is what you do when you make yourself look better. That's part of the lingo.

Oh. And so he's saying his face descended as a result of having to wear the life support mask, which is that's fucking. dark. Wow. This whole thing is dark. Can we engage with the first part of this, though, which when he says all of the substances are just a cult trying to feel neurotypical while being in public. But obviously that isn't a real solution. Because that is a real thing that neuroatypical people deal with, including controlled substances. He's going to die young. And sad. I may be tragic, but he's very nihilistic.

So I just tend to, I struggle with the death of the nihilist sometimes because it's like, you got what you want. So the sadness is how much this probably resonates with a lot of people. Mm-hmm. And the fact that none of our social or authoritative apparatuses are interested in addressing how we produce a clavicular and how he rises to fame and then gets platformed by numerous mainstream figures is what it is. I think one of like my cynical takes on this and like the media treatment of clavicular in particular is like. Clivicular in particular.

Clivocular in particular. The media is just cashing in on this. Like I think that there are some journalists who have written or examined clavicular who are not trying to do that, who are not engaging or writing or spotlighting him maliciously. But I do think that when you zoom out and you look at sort of the history of how the mainstream media engages with these very. troubled, nihilistic young people, it does start to feel like ambulance chasing. Like, this person's not going to be around for that long. Let's like cash in on the phenomenon as much as we can. And by the end of it, we haven't done anything to actually like better the world, let alone like this individual. And in fact, it's sad because it reinforces the idea that if you

act this way, you will wind up beyond the cover of magazines. You'll be on TV. You'll get like all of this short-lived attention, again, it just reinforces the clavicular worldview. You know, if you have young people trying to emulate this model and do the same thing, then I think at some point the media machine has to say, like, are we complicit in this? Because we're literally creating a pathway for young people to get attention by doing this. And then we're giving them that attention they so desperately crave. I feel like one of my big, if not the biggest conclusion that I have around this whole thing is just that like clavicular is a symptom, not the cause. It's evidence.

And my problem with like so much of the coverage is that they aren't willing to engage with the cause because it's hard and it's not sexy. You know, these sorts of constant coverage around like what this attractive young man spiraling out in Miami, that makes for a sexy story that'll get a lot of clicks and a lot of people laughing. And then like, maybe he will die. He idolizes the usual. YouTuber bodybuilder who did die. And a lot of those bodybuilders die.

Like bodybuilder, the average, I don't know the stats, but like tons of bodybuilder influencer type people die before 30, 440 or in their 40s. I know that there are plenty of people that are like Yolo with it all. And again, going back to what he saw as a kid, the use of substances to achieve a physical aesthetic is nothing that he would have been unfamiliar with. And I'm sure the consequences are what they are. And I feel like, here's where I get really earnest. I'm always earnest.

But I'm like, if you're listening to this podcast, if somehow this caught you, you're someone in clavicular's target demo. I'm not going to tell you that you don't live in, at least to a certain extent, the world that clavicular is describing. Lookism exists. People will treat you differently in many situations based on how you look. And also, that is not a reason for you to just, like, lie down and surrender to that world because there are, I don't know. I don't know.

And that's even hard for me to say because I do a lot of stuff to try to make myself look better. Right. I don't live outside of those norms either. I'm wearing all this makeup. I go to the gym every day. I do this and I do that. Like, I can't pretend to live outside of it. I'm not the 16 minutes guy pretending I live in a world you don't also live in.

but we shouldn't, you know? And we should all, I don't know, we should fight for a world and for community building online and in real life where we can value what I think are objectively more important qualities in one another. All to say, I think we should start empathy maxing. Yes, exactly. I don't know. I don't know. That's a better name than the one I thought up earlier. The last thing I'll say is it reminds me.

a little bit of Andrea Dworkin's analysis. Someone who mind you, literally just this past week on Twitter, I saw people posting pictures of Andrea Dworkin and being like, she looks like this and that's why she hates men, which again reinforces the clavicular worldview. But like part of Andrew Dworkin's analysis in right-wing women was like, right-wing women see the world clearly. They just don't want to change it.

And I feel like that is a really big point that separates you out from like the clavicular, like, nihilism crowd and like the, we recognize that these things are real, but we also actually want to strive for a better world crowd, which is like there is a better version of living that is not just like flaving out young. There is like a version of like looking outside the mainstream media echelon, looking outside just trying to succeed within these narrow pathways that have been designed for us and trying to create different ones. And if only someone could point clavicular in that direction, instead of just reinforcing that he's on the right path. Yeah.

I have more hope and naive empathy for characters like this than the average person. I was preparing for my outro, so I grabbed the hammer. I'm sorry. Maybe it's the hammer and sickle. Maybe he reads some books and it figures it out. But more than likely, he's just going to, in the next. harm himself to the point where this world is no longer feasible. He's going to have a mental breakdown because like this level of masking daily,

nightly, 24-hour streams is mentally taxing. So like there's some type of harm coming his way. And the aftermath analysis, I guess, will be interesting and we will learn nothing. I'm nihilist maxing. You are, but I don't know. It's nihilist maxing. I'm usually optimist maxing. but I think we meet in the middle at like realism maxing,

which is actually probably closer to what you're saying. But I can still have, but you know what? This is the thing is like I can still have hope for everyone who follows him. Because they haven't cashed in all of their life on this road. That's true. That's true. The Manistphere stuff tends to be a phase for young men. God willing, you know, the younger they get in, usually the longer they stay.

But hopefully the vast majority of them make it out and figure life out beyond it. FD and Kat. Thank you so much for podcast maxing with me this afternoon. Appreciate you. It was fun. Where can people find more of each of you? I'm at spitfirenews.com. That is my newsletter. I am context maxing over there. And blue sky. I'm on Instagram at Cat Temmarch. I am mainly on YouTube at FD Signifier. That's the main tent. Pohl channel. I have four or five other supplemental channels for different purposes, but the two most

active are the FD Stream channel, which is me streaming, sometimes. It's gaming. Sometimes it's hot takes, and then there's a signify B-sides. This is more of like a commentary channel where I might talk about this or something else. I don't know. It tends to be interchangeable to topics. Just the level of effort I put into it. I'm also barely on blue sky, barely on threads, barely on Instagram. I'm trying to normal life max and dad max and so i am getting social media mugged by most of my peers this is the thing it's fun it's fun it's fun thank you so much for listen maxing today i so appreciate your time i know you could have spent it uh you know maxing in all sorts of other ways but i appreciate that you that you fruitymax with us.

I love you so much. I hope you continue to have a wonderful day and week. And until next time, keep fruitymaxing. Peace and blessings, yo. It's so stupid. I had to stop.