A Bit of Optimism - Hope with Shamma Al Mazrui

Episode Date: December 7, 2021

So many politicians say our children are our future, so why do so few nations have a cabinet level position to represent their youth? As the Minister of State for Youth Affairs for the United Arab Emirates, Shamma Al Mazrui is revolutionizing the dynamic between youth and government. At the age of 22, she became the youngest government minister in the world. Now, five years later, she has powerful insights to share about fostering a nation’s youth, the power of listening, and how hope empowers.    This is... A Bit of Optimism.     If you want to know more about Shamma and the Ministry for Youth Affairs, check out:  https://youth.gov.ae/en https://uaecabinet.ae/en/details/cabinet-members/her-excellency-shamma-bint-suhail-faris-al-mazrui https://u.ae/en/about-the-uae/the-uae-government/government-of-future/youth 

If you think your kid's an overachiever, wait till you meet Shama Al-Missouri. She became the Minister of State for Youth Affairs in the United Arab Emirates at the age of 22, which made her the youngest government minister in the world. She was also her country's first Rhodes Scholar. So I wanted to talk to Shama about the power of youth and why there aren't more ministers of youth in more governments. What I learned that youth brings is hope. This is a bit of optimism.

This is a bit of optimism. You are the minister of youth for an entire nation. And what I find so wonderful about that is if you consider the size of the youth population in every nation, that most nations don't have a minister of youth. I live in the United States and there's no minister of youth as a cabinet position. It existed in the UK for, I think, a year. And then it was folded into a different department, which basically deals with charitable giving. What was the birth? What was the decision that led to a nation deciding to have an entire cabinet position just to represent the youth of the nation? I find that so fascinating. It's so rare in the world.

That's a very good question. The Ministry of Youth and the U.S. exists to connect youth to leaders and decision makers across all industries and sectors. And we empower youth to become the leaders and decision makers, not only for tomorrow, but for today. Let's look at our region. In the MENA region, youth under 35 make up more than 60% of the population. And we believe it's very simple. A nation's ability to harness youth directly impacts its security, its GDP, its global positioning, and most importantly, the quality of life for every human being. And this ministry is based on two fundamental beliefs. Youth are the future and governments must be directly involved. And to be honest, Simon, we can't afford to build a future that eliminates half of our population from contributing their voice,

their talent, their ideas, their energy. And so one thing that's very interesting is we don't just involve youth, we let youth lead. And that's Maverick, I think. It's the UAE way. We're taking very big risks on our biggest assets. The ministry is a design theory startup in every sense of the word. I want to maybe touch base on the point that you said. It's baffling to think of how widespread youth have been sidelined in strategies and in government around the world. And the significant challenge, I think, is that young people are seen as problems to manage rather than assets to leverage. And this is a sure failing strategy for nations in our fast-paced, globalized world. It's abundantly clear what we resist persists. Have you found that by giving youth a seat at government and their own ministry to lead and run themselves, that the division between older generations and younger generations have narrowed?

Because, you know, it's always the older generations complaining about the younger generations and the younger generations complaining about the older generations. Is that still the case? Is that human nature? Or because they have a seat at the table, do you find less of that? I believe that division has narrowed so much. And it narrowed because of the vision of government and how it came from top down, from leadership. We were just talking about how what we resist persists. And the kind of strategy we have in the way is where we nourish will flourish.

So if the government resists the reality of youth today and tomorrow, they're going to fail their youth. Our global reality will be less abundant and more dangerous place. Now, on the contrary, this is our strategy is where we nourish, we'll flourish. If all governments make changes and take risks for youth to have abundant opportunities during this kind of precious formation time, it all comes down to how we listen and it's communication every direction. It really sets the foundation when you work with young people, because you need to understand them and include them.

One of the subjects that I talk about more than I think any other, when somebody says, you know, how do we teach leadership? And I always talk about that leadership education lacks teaching people how to listen empathetically. And certainly one of the things that we're struggling with in our country is we're so divided because both sides refuse to listen to each other and when I say listen meaning not hear the words that were spoken but to try to understand the meaning behind those words and allow the other side to feel heard and we don't teach listening we don't teach it in our schools we don't teach it in our governments we don't teach it in our schools. We don't teach it in our governments. We don't teach it in our companies. And so the fact that you're teaching listening and you're using

listening as sort of the single most important tool to benefit youth in the country is, it is so far ahead. I definitely hear it from companies and government. They claim they listen to youth, you know, a government minister sit around and a bunch of people talk and they take a bunch of pictures and then nothing. How do you build accountability into ensure that the stuff that they're sharing with you, you know, not all ideas are good ideas, but at least that they're heard and the good ones actually do get shuttled through. I love this. Two weeks ago, the government approved a youth global empowerment policy. And you'd be like, well, how do you measure empowerment? It's not just a photo opportunity or a media kind of thing. So what happened two weeks ago is the cabinet approved a definition for youth empowerment,

a measurable definition, and it created a manual and an assessment and an index. Basically, the youth empowerment manual was what it looks like for youth to be empowered. It assesses how we're doing against that definition. That's an assessment. And it compares youth empowerment efforts across all federal government. And that's our index. And the way we measure it is two ways. One is the government itself, the ministry every year has to submit an entity

submission form to tell us how is it doing in terms of the six pillars, voice, recognition, purpose, guidance, development, and opportunity. The other one is we ask young people. So the young people in that ministry, and we ask them, do you really have opportunities for your development? How many of you have signed up for the federal government skills program? And so this is amazing because this is exactly the process and outcome we hope to achieve through this manual and assessment. And this is exactly the framework that will empower governments to move forward. I mean, I'm sitting here with my mouth open, completely gobsmacked. I mean, I've talked to people in government many times, and this does not sound like government, where you have metrics,

and you're holding yourself accountable to these definitions, and you're reporting back on whether youth feel included or empowered, or that they're being heard. What is it about your government or your nation that is allowing you to be so nimble, so entrepreneurial? Here, we like to think that we're the best at everything. And we're really behind in this stuff. And even in the commercial sector, like these metrics don't exist in the commercial sector at all. Is it just because you're a young nation? Is it because you have a majority young people? Is it the entrepreneurial spirit? Like what is it about the nation that is so forward thinking that you're doing so much more than so many others? I'm so blown away by

the fact that you have these metrics. The answer is simple. Our leaders listen, they organize, and they act. They listen to our people, they listen to science, which is so important right now, science and COVID. We listen to culture, we respond with the data they all give us. And then they take decisive, organized action to achieve it. The UAE model is one, end exclusion, bring inclusion. Two, end presumption and assumption, start listening.

Three, end being stuck in the past or future, rev up your moral imagination, which is the ability to accept reality and the audacity kind of to hope for a better future. And you might say, Shiloh, hope. I know you always talk about hope. It's something so powerful.

Our Mars mission is called hope. And I'll tell you why, because we believe in the UAE, how we hope determines how we live. And that's a central truth. I'd love to hear your thoughts on what is hope. And I'll tell you kind of our angle here. I think hope is like optimism. It's the undying belief in a bright future. And no matter how dark the tunnel, you believe that the future is bright. I think that's what hope is. Even if you have to squint, you see light at the end of the tunnel. I love this.

It's like hope is the dream of something to come, the confidence in something that will be. It's kind of this renewable resource that if lost today, it can be regained tomorrow. I love it. We can plug into hope when our supply kind of runs dry. And everyone wants hope. Everyone needs hope. Hope is essential for our future. Without it, I think we would not believe in the possibility of a better world, let alone even have the motivation to work toward it. And I think you

always talk about motivation to do things. It's imperative to just know that one ingredient that I believe is crucial to hope is inclusion, not just inclusion of youth, but everyone. And it's worth noting that you've normalized relations with Israel, which is a big step for the entire region. When that happened, did you have an opportunity to visit or have some Israelis visit with you? Well, unfortunately, I didn't have an opportunity to visit because of COVID. Oh, COVID got in the way, of course, yeah. But it's amazing to see how really this new movement,

youth believe that the Abrahamic Accords was the best decision because we have, as young people, the fresh opportunity to define what kind of world we want to live in. And we can choose the values with which we want to shape the future. And what it means for Israel and the UAE as two of the region's strongest nations now becoming friends and partners is that we have an opportunity to demonstrate that peace is not merely a ceasefire, but a gateway to life and nation and region exponentially greater than when we were divided. To be honest, the peace dividend that I believe that came out of the Abrahamic Accords is kind of this shared return on investment of this peace deal.

What we stand to gain by no longer focusing on what divides us in this region, and particularly for youth, focusing on what divides us in this region. And particularly for youth, I'm not talking about the classical Cold War definition of peace dividend, which references cost avoidance or reallocation of less military spending. I'm talking about the magnitude, Simon, of social, cultural, economic,

even spiritual benefits that come from an agreement to move forward as sons and daughters of Abraham. I want to go back to listening that we were talking about a minute ago. A, do you consider yourself a good listener? And where did you learn listening? You yourself, personally, how did you learn to listen? Do I consider I'm a good listener? No, I'm still learning.

It's a steep learning curve, but I love being better. It's not simple. When you think about how you listen matters so much, it's about what happens inside of your mind, your heart, your body when you listen. And it's so powerful. It's having the presence of mind to notice what happened as a result of this listening. The second question is, I learned about listening. I've never even thought about it or presence except when I first started this job and it was from His Highness. The first sentence he even told us when we started this new strategy was, listen, listen, listen. And I was like, why is His Highness telling us to listen? And I realized, wow, leadership is listening. Leadership is all about listening.

Because when we listen, we learn and our assumptions about or the barriers between one another are dismantled. I speak Chinese and the character for listening in Chinese is a combination of the symbols for an ear, eye, heart and one. How magical is that? So wait, ear, eye, heart and number one. So if you put them together, Simon, the ting tells us, tells us this kind of word in Chinese, tells us the choice to listen goes well beyond your ears. Listen has to do with the heart fully understanding what makes something complete in all that it's connected to. When you put the word maybe one, which is one of the meanings of the characters,

is listening means to make someone and someone's reality matter to us, to take it to heart, and then to act on it. I took a listening class a few years ago. It was offered to me and I thought, sure, you know, I'll do that. And here's what I learned. I am an absolutely fantastic listener when I'm talking to people that I will probably never see again for the rest of my life. But when I am talking to my closest friends and family, terrible. And when my close friends, when we get in a disagreement, they say, you don't listen. And I would say, what are you talking about? I don't listen. I'm a pro at this. I do this for

a living. And I realized though I had the skillset, I didn't apply it to the people I loved. And so my journey over the past few years has been really trying to learn to listen, not just as a skill set when I'm helping somebody find their why, you know, when I'm at work, that intense concentration, but being able to apply that to my friends and my family. And the hardest part is listening without judgment, but listening with curiosity. And especially because when it's personal, sometimes things that they say I take personally and I your turn to speak. And job number one is I have to focus on 100% on them. And it's a journey. It's been a journey. What I'm fascinated by is how does a nation, are there listening classes in schools in the UAE? Are you teaching the youth how to listen actively? No, but I would love to do that.

This is an idea I'm going to note down right now. Imagine entire generation of youth with a skill set that older generations could have, they can all take the class, but that mandatory, just like reading, writing and arithmetic, that every child learns to listen. Imagine what that does for them and for their lives and any kind of conflict that they may experience for the rest of their lives. That's profound. That is profound. This is just, wow. I think we need to do a crash course on the lost art of kind of listening. None of us, Simon, are good listeners all the time. It's human nature. I get distracted by what's going on around me or I don't listen sometimes to my son

and I'm on a work call or I'm reading something. And I think it takes time and effort, like reading. You pay attention to some things and sometimes you're skimming. And I feel like your ability to pay attention and focus degrades over time. But imagine if you start listening to everyone as you just scan headlines or on a celebrity kind of website or Instagram, you won't discover the wisdom, the creativity, the energy in people. And I go, by the way, you are a good listener. Every time I've sat with you

since New York, you really do. So we need you as a lecture in our course. Well, that's very kind. Thank you. What an honor. I love the idea of developing coursework for kids to learn to listen and to the best of my knowledge. And I haven't, I haven't scoured the world, but you know, except for individual cases in individual schools, I don't know where there's a school system that's ever included it as part of the curriculum. I want to show you something that's very powerful, which is the Arab Youth Survey that came out in 2020. And it's the 11th consecutive year. It's done by Burstyn Marsteller, so it's not even done by government, but it's a true voice for change

and it really maps out for governments the importance of engaging, equipping and empowering youth. This survey keeps telling us again and again, it repeats that young people in the Arab region want hope and that hope is revealed begins with a loss.

In 2020, 50% of Arab youth in that survey considered leaving their countries for a better life. 40% want to leave their country permanently, Simon, driven by economic reasons, security, education. But what does this data really mean? What does it mean when 50% of Arab youth want to leave their countries? It implies that they don't believe that they have a voice. Youth are telling us transparent and cooperative leadership is the number one issue for youth in the Arab region. They want leaders that listen. It's unequivocally clear. Who's doing it right? Is there another nation or a company or an organization? Who's doing a good job of fostering

youth? There's so many nations, to be honest, that are doing great. I can't pinpoint one specific, but I think you're being generous. I think you're being politically correct because from what I've seen, most nations are junk at listening to youth. I'll be honest. Trust begins with honest conversation, right? Something that we're doing right here. And to be honest, Simon, who builds a home better than the owner? Who plants a seed better than the loving gardener who will tend it yeah who loves the horse more than the jockey who's going to see it to the finish line and who will create their optimal future more than the youth who will inherit it so there's one message i want to say for all governments is please lead by the power of inclusion, because this is something that we realized is so important

in the UAE. But I want to ask you a question. What do you think about inclusion and diversity? Because I really don't like how diversity seems like a zero-sum game. And I always have this conversation with a lot of my friends, even in the States, where they feel like, okay, if you add someone who's of a different color, it means you're taking away jobs from someone who's of another color. To me, that's okay. That's their diversity argument, but inclusion is beneficial to everyone and it should be seen as a win-win, not zero sum. So what's your take on that? Of course, I think to make diversity a calculation, to make it an equation, completely misses the point. Diversity and inclusion requires effort,

especially for those who didn't grow up with it or weren't pushed to do it. We naturally are drawn to people who look like us, sound like us, went to the place we went to school, because as, you know, tribal animals that human beings are, we're drawn to people that are similar because we falsely believe that there's security there. And it really, it's based on values. And the more people we can attract who have a different point of view, because if you all look the same and you all came from the same education, you all came from the same place, then your opinions about how to solve a problem or seize an opportunity are going to be very similar, which means you're actually creating weakness and liability. And so when you bring people who are from different religions, different sexual orientations, different gender identities,

different upbringings, different schoolings, you know, somebody who grew up rich versus somebody who grew up poor, what we're getting is an entirely different perspective of how the world works. It's a little bit like the old story of the blind men and the elephant. And they all ask, describe, you know, the elephant. And one says, well, it's just all of this hair. That's all it is. And the other one says, well, no, it's more like a tree trunk. That's what this is. You only get a picture of the elephant when you have all the different points of view. And that's what diversity and inclusion provides. And I think any leader worth their salt values that. And any leader that ignores it, it's to their own peril, quite frankly, just because they're creating weaker organizations.

To think of it as zero-sum is astonishing that people still think that way. I love how you double-clicked on the power of inclusion. way. I love how you double clicked on the power of inclusion because making someone feel more included is not going to detract from anyone else's experience, which is the kind of zero-sum game equation. To be honest, you started this conversation talking about young people and older age. When you look at it as zero-sum game, you'll see it's youth against adults or adults against youth. It's not a UE. In the UE, it's more this kind of, let us create an inclusive environment where everyone has an equal chance to succeed, including youth. And this is the kind of argument that we need for youth around the world to maybe double-click more

on the diversity. We see it in a lot of companies like, Hey, let's hire more diverse kind of candidates. But I feel like this is more misguided because diversity should be the result of kind of people from different backgrounds or ages, different capabilities choosing to work for that kind of company or. And I remember listening to a podcast and they talked about, I think she's an author. Her name is Verna Mears.

And she said, diversity is being invited to the party, but inclusion is being asked to dance. So I hope you're dancing over there, but it's much easier to notice the experiences of exclusion, but inclusion can be much more invisible because it's not just being invited on the table, Simon. It's the actual authentic, really genuine involvement, like being asked to dance. This is also very much into the work of finite and infinite games. You know, a finite mindset sees every interaction as a winner or loss, that if there's a winner, there's a loser. If this person wins by being included, then that person loses by being

excluded. And then setting each thing up as a contest, a more infinite mindset sees the value of bringing people in with shared values. As you said, I want to work for this company. I want to work for this organization. I believe in their cause. I live my life by the same values that this organization tries to operate by. I belong here. And all the other stuff is I'll find brothers and sisters here of all shades and colors,

but we all have one thing in common, which is we're driven by common cause. And I think that's a better way to create strong culture, which is we're driven by common cause rather than we look the same or sound the same. Or even if you have a robust DEI policy, if there's no values basis, then you just have lots of people who look different and sound different, but still don't get along. We have to care about the same things. Your definition that some people who are thinking about a zero summit, I mean, that's nothing more than a finite game in an infinite world, which, as we know, leads to problems of trust, cooperation, and innovation. So I'm going to change tacks on you completely, which is you recently had your second child, right?

Yes. And I want to know how becoming a mother has changed you. I mean, you have this remarkable life. When you became the minister of youth, you were the youngest government minister in the world. The first Rhodes Scholar from your country. You have all these remarkable things that you've achieved, but still so much life ahead of you. I want to know, in face of all of that, how did you personally change after you had a family? So yes, when I started my job, I wasn't even married. And right now I'm celebrating hope with the birth of my daughter, Rova. It's my second child. And to be honest,

I'm getting goosebumps talking about this. I'm biologically overcome by the hope that having a child brings motherhood might be the chief hope officer position. I mean, it's remarkable. I realized that as a mother, I'm a learner, but also a teacher, and I continue to learn from my children. And I feel like I'm becoming a better teacher. The two go hand in hand, like mother and child. It's amazing how it anchored my whole life. It gave me new perspectives. The more time I spend with

my children, the more I believe that I feel like I'm developing radical empathy in all aspects of my life, even at my work. It's powerful how a lot of people always say, oh my God, working mothers, always say, oh my God, working mothers, and it's hard, you can't balance, and you can't do well in either. And I don't believe that. I don't think so it's a zero-sum game again. I don't think so it's black and white. I think you begin to learn what unconditional love is when you have a family, and that you can also pour that love in the work that you do with the people. I used to have a wonderful experience of working. And now with my family, I believe when I come to work, I have a wonderful experience of living. I believe I'm more even productive. I put more hard work than I've done. So I feel like that misconception needs to change, especially with people whenever they kind of see working mothers. I want to know what kind of leader you were before you had your first child that changed. Not because you had some hard feedback, not because something went wrong, not because you learned a lesson. I want to know what changed simply because you had a child.

I learned what the word dedication means. I think you were pretty dedicated before you had a child? I learned what the word dedication means. I think you were pretty dedicated before you had a kid. No, but I mean, dedicated with your full heart. Just maybe we talked about listening, having your eyes and heart and soul into one. I feel like I learned what it means really to be so dedicated to every part of your life and the importance of it. I learned what is love. It's very interesting because... What is love? These are intangible, right?

Love is intangible. Hope is intangible. But let's take the rose, for instance. If you look at a rose, is it possible for a rose to say, I'm going to offer my fragrance to only good people like Simon and not good people maybe like,

or bad people like Shema or withhold it from bad people I don't think so um so you begin to love everyone and everything around you it's it's weird to say this I know but it's like you keep trying to be a better person you can't discriminate uh and I feel like the first quality of love is its indiscriminate character, Simon. It's like the sun. Who makes kind of his sunshine on good and bad alike, right? And it's that's something that you learn as a mother, as a wife. It's powerful. I'm still learning. I'm a student. What a great analogy. I was told recently that having a child is the greatest belief in the future. If you're willing to bring a child into this world, it means you believe in the hope and optimism of the future. And what a standard,

even for the youth of today, that we help empower them to build a world that they want to bring more children into this world, that they believe that this world will be great for their children. I love this because it's also about how do you instill in young people the values that you want to see, the future values of citizens. And I think how can you, if our nation was built on trust and respect and peaceful coexistence, how do you ensure that these young people have that? I think this is the hard part.

It's invisible. When you look at a tree, the tree is not dragging me under it to sit under its shade. It's there. It's spreading out love somehow. And that's what you learn as a mother. You just want to, you love everyone. And to be honest, I started, I love my colleagues' kids even. I feel like they're my kids. I want to take care of them. It's something that should be felt and it can be seen. Here's what I've learned in talking to you. All these magical things that you're doing for youth, with youth, listening, you know, inclusion, a voice.

I wonder if what it all boils down to is that what you're actually teaching young people to do is to love. And if you can teach an entire generation to love in a deeper way than previous generations, then that and that alone is what makes the future bright. Oh, wow. And how long does this kind of love last? And then I feel like there's no such thing as deficient love or partial love. It's in its fullness. And imagine if you have that kind of love for your community, your nation, the world and everyone around you, what kind of person will

that young person be? Oh, this is wonderful. My cheeks hurt from smiling this whole time. I'm just so inspired by, I mean, no single department of government can be said to be building the future. You know, infrastructure, labor, you know, housing, no one is building the future more than a ministry of youth. And I hope that the work that you do and you're doing serves as an inspiration to other governments who equally want to build a bright future that they have to have a ministry of youth because it's ostensibly a ministry of the future. That's what it is. Thank you for taking the time. I really appreciate it. I just want to maybe say one thing. The most meaningful part of my job is when I see an initiative or policy empower another young

person. It's like seeing a bird take flight. I remember reading that if birds don't have the proper bone assignment in place, in and around their wings. These birds can't fly and they can't even take off. That's such a delicate mystery how a bird is designed. To me, being a young person unequipped to live a life to their potential is like seeing a bird unable to fly, Simon. It's unnatural. It's not how youth are designed. Going back to why it's so important, and I'm grateful

that we have a leadership that believes it's a government's job to create the conditions that will enable all young people with different abilities, different aspirations to develop their ways and take flight. And I have a deep sense of responsibility, Simon, to co-create the conditions for all youth to fly. It's deeply satisfying to wake up and go to work with great people and see youth-centric policies and programs come out of our team's hard work. That's the heartbeat of our ministry. And it's a gift. I'm so grateful for it.

It's so wonderful. Thank you so much. I'm so grateful. It's so wonderful. Thank you so much. If you enjoyed this podcast and would like to hear more, please subscribe wherever you like to listen to podcasts. Until then, take care of yourself.

Take care of each other.