A Bit of Optimism - How To Be A Friend with chef Christina Tosi

Episode Date: February 6, 2024

When life gets tough, true friends ask for help.Christina Tosi is that kind of friend. She's someone I can trust with anything and someone I can cry with. She also happens to be a world-class pastry chef, a genius dessert maker, and the founder and CEO of Milk Bar. We reflect on the art of asking for help and how sometimes all we need from a true friend is 8 minutes of their time.This...is A Bit of Optimism.For more on Christina and her work, check out: https://www.christinatosi.com/https://milkbarstore.com/ For more on the power of an 8-minute phone call, check out this New York Times article. And, by the way, I wanted to share Christina's recipe for making an Ice Cream Loaf. It's magic. You will need:2 cups (1 pint) of softened ice cream1 cup of self-rising flour1 eggPreheat oven to 350°F. Grease a loaf pan and set aside.In a large bowl, mix the melty ice cream, self-rising flour, and egg. Do not overmix.Pour the batter into loaf pan.Bake for 45 minutes or until toothpick clean.Enjoy. 

If you've ever tried a tasty treat from Milk Bar, or tried the cereal milk ice cream from one of the Milk Bar bakeries, or watched Bake Squad on Netflix, or taken part in the Bake Club on Instagram, or read Dessert Can Save the World, or read any of her other cookbooks, then you know Christina Tosi. She is the powerhouse entrepreneur behind the Milk Bar brand, and she's also a dear friend. Instead of talking about what it takes to build a dessert empire, I thought we would go deep on this one and talk about what it means to be a friend. And it turns out the single most important thing is learning how to ask for help. This is a bit of optimism. how to ask for help. This is a bit of optimism. The best part about doing a podcast with you is that I get to talk to you. I miss you. And I get to see you. Like on work time. Like it's not

like I'm trying to call you in the middle of work and I know I'm not going to catch you because you're in the middle of your work. I just have a moment. This is, yeah, this is considered work. Hey, Simon, it's a real job to be your friend. What does that mean? I'm just joking. I'm just joking. That's like the, it's what we're saying implicitly, but also it's such a joy. Well, no, it's because we both get, we both love what we do for a living and it all makes

the most sense when you get to say my favorite people to spend time with outside of work and share life with are also people. For me, that's how I know I'm on the right track professionally. So you are famous because of Milk Bar. You're famous for your Netflix TV show. You're famous for your books, your cookbooks. You talk about those things a lot, but there's a Christina Tosi behind all of that magical stuff that I have the deep honor and pleasure of knowing. And I feel selfish knowing that. And I thought that would be a place for us to go today. Okay. Anyway, I'm just going to jump right in. So here's the milk bar question I have.

I can't wait. How did you come up with cereal milk ice cream, which is honestly one of the greatest gifts to humanity? I would put the discovery of penicillin I would put the discovery of penicillin and cereal milk ice cream way up there. That's very sweet. For me, it's like when you do something that's bigger than yourself in a way that's like, I don't know, it just kind of happens and my only job is to be the conduit for it. For me, cereal milk is the representation of making someone, that angry person eating ice cream on a bad day, just making them feel like seen and loved and trust somewhere at some point in their life where they felt calm and safe and trusted and seen without any of the other, this is my name or this is who I am or this is what I do. There's like a sacred moment that happens, I suppose, in a bowl of cereal at some point in all of our lives, no matter what the cereal is. The magic of that product, it's not just tasty ice cream because there are many flavors of tasty ice cream that I love, but there's no flavors of tasty ice cream that so tap into nostalgia and childhood.

that so tap into nostalgia and childhood. And my Frosted Flakes in the morning, I ate it with a friend recently, and they loved Froot Loops, and I despise Froot Loops. I despise fruity cereals, right? Chocolaty cereals and like Frosted Flakes are where it's at. And the amazing thing is

I had this amazing nostalgic experience of my Frosted Flakes from Cereal Milk Ice Cream amazing thing is I had this amazing nostalgic experience of my Frosted Flakes from Cereal Milk Ice Cream. And she had the most amazing nostalgic experience of her Froot Loops from the same ice cream. How is that possible? It's just witchcraft. I love it. It's like such a concept. I mean, I, in- It takes everybody back to childhood. It does. In the most boring way, I just came up with it. I was like, this is either going to be a good idea or a bad idea. Like years before I even opened up Milk Bar, I was working to put a dessert on a menu of a local fuku restaurant. And I was trying to figure out, it was like a tasting menu only restaurant. So you know what it's like to go out to a tasting menu only. Like you don't get to say what you want. Like you're just, I'm in your hands and I'm a competitive person. So I was like, okay, after I'm going up last, after all of my dude friends that are

working all the other courses, my course is up last. Everyone's going to be stuck. They want to get out of there. They want to be in their pajamas, home and bed. They're done with the night. They don't want any more like food or dessert. And I have to figure out how to make something the right flavor and format that everyone's going to want. Cause I don't know about you, but when you go out to eat and you do get to order dessert, there's a chocolate person, there's a fruity person, there's a vanilla person. Someone orders the creme brulee, someone orders lemon tart, someone orders the cheesecake, the chocolate cake. And I don't, I just, it was like, you know, just this innocent, like it's either going to be a good idea or a bad idea. And I fed it to Dave and a few other people.

And it was like, oh, okay, maybe this is something. But still, you never really imagine what it could be. But I just love that it does the thing for people. That's kind of the only thing that matters. This is why you are you and what we can all learn from you, which is in the restaurant business, in the food business, you're a dessert person, pastry chef. In that business, there's a lot of, they're going to love my cooking. They're going to love my dessert. And by the way, that's in everything. In my business, it's like, they're going to love my book. They're going to love my speech. Just wait until they take

my course. This is going to be such a good course, right? Just all of these things. This is every entrepreneur, what goes through all of our minds. If they just use my app, right? And what you started with is, oh, these poor people, they've just been fed an entire meal. The last thing they want is to have some heavy cakey dessert that they don't even want all they want to do to go home again in their pajamas i'm just going to give them the one thing that you actually been willing to eat on your way out that is it's not like oh a little light little it's i'm just going to give you something that just makes you feel warm and is the space between meal and bed. And the fact that you think about the human being and their experience that leads up to what you're going to give them

is the reason you are who you are. You think about us before you think about yourself. I mean, if you make dessert, of course, dessert makes people happy. It does the thing. Dessert's a sacred space. aside from a tasting menu only restaurant where someone's going to serve it to you like desserts an opt-in course right like it's also not it's something people choose to do not something that people have to do and i take that choice personally like i take it seriously i take it personally that is a sacred sacred space that people invite you into. Like dessert has this habit of showing up, right?

Like, of course, cake shows up at birthdays. But like if there's a wake or a funeral or like dessert is there. Dessert has this way of showing up for people in these moments. And that's sacred stuff. That's some really sacred stuff. I love the fact that you think about that dessert is a discretionary course. So you're not actually competing against other desserts. You're competing against, let's get out of here and go watch a movie at home. You're competing against,

oh, I've put on so much weight. You're competing against all of those things, but you're not competing against other food. Yes. You're competing with people's emotional neuroses, like their dark sides, meet their emotional child, meet their, you know, meet their intellect. Like you were in the middle of an argument largely in someone's head or some brilliant resolution where someone was just like in the head, be quiet. We're going, we're going to milk bar. We're doing the thing. We're whatever. But I also say that dessert should actually be sent to someone's home. It should be at home. If you're doing a fine dining menu, dessert should be served. I don't know how to do this without it being weird, but my real vision for fine dining is that dessert follows you home and is there for you in bed. That or they give you pajamas to change into

so that when you just like dessert bed sleep coma happiness. pajamas to change into so that when you just like dessert bed sleep coma happiness. By the way, I do this frequently. I go for a nice meal. I'll have my meal. And I will very often say, I'd like this dessert to go, please. And so you don't have to find a way to deliver it at home. You just have to find an elegant way to put it in a cooler pack so it stays fresh and is beautifully presented when you get home. That's all. I do that regularly. I take my dessert home. It's not a nicety. It's like, because I want to eat this in home. I want to eat it, but I want to eat it in about an hour. On your white covers. Yeah, exactly. I want to eat it in about an hour. Yeah. And I want to eat it in front of the TV. I don't want to eat it at a restaurant. Yeah. So I'm going to change subjects

on you. This is a dramatic shift now. This is a dramatic shift of key. We're going to go from a major key to a minor key. I regularly on this podcast will talk about vulnerability. During COVID, I made a rule with all my friends that there's no crying alone. I talk about this idea of no crying alone. What I don't ever say is that during COVID, you and I called each other more than a couple times and cried together. And I remember the first time you called, you were going for a long walk. You'd left the house. You were in a difficult place. It was a difficult time.

And you said, I could go to my husband, but he's also in a difficult place. And I don't want to add more to his plate. And so do you have a minute? And I remember, I don't remember the conversation at all, but I remember we cried together. And it was, I always adored you, and I've always been a fan of yours, but it was on that day, this friendship.

It became real. It was set in concrete. You know? It went from fun to solid i i do you remember that day you know it's funny you ask because you're saying this in my head i'm like simon i remember the tree i was standing under i remember the gate like when you walk and you kind of almost walk like um soldier where you sort of like kick your heels up a little bit because i'm i was just sort of like grasping for straws and i remember the phone ringing and i remember hearing your voice like i remember where i walked i remember i remember those steps why don't people call a friend in need? You know, I mean, here we are. I trust you

with everything. I would call you and tell you I'm struggling. I would call you and tell you I'm hurting. I would call you and tell you I'm flailing. I would call and tell you I'm confused. I'm lost. I would call and tell you all of those things. And I want to know why other people don't. I have friends who don't call other people in times of need. And they have this weird sense of I don't want to burden anyone with my problems. Or there's shame or embarrassment attached, especially if somebody considers themselves a high performer. I was going to say there's probably part of it that also is if I say it out loud and I have to hear myself, one, that makes it true. And two, making it true means I have to admit it and then grapple with it and deal with it. And if you're talking about high performers, you're talking about people that implicitly don't want to admit defeat and confusing vulnerability with defeat, right, is probably like number one reason why people that are high performers struggle. out and solve it. And if you don't think you have a solve for it, it's too big to even conceive of stating out loud. Though, of course, the irony is saying it out loud, releasing yourself of it to someone that is trustworthy is oftentimes half, if not so much more of the grappling with it and

dealing with it and taking that first step is oftentimes so much of getting through it, getting into it, making way. It's decompartmentalizing because thinking it, it's still ethereal. It's a thought, right? But by saying it out loud to another human being, you're decompartmentalizing and saying, this is a real thing. And you can't escape it now, right? You can't- You put yourself on notice. Yeah. You put yourself on notice. And that's a very scary feeling if you don't have the solution ready and lined up for the problem that you're putting out there. But that's the whole point

of decompartmentalizing. My experience with you is the most beautiful part of our friendship. Like, why did I call that day? Why were you the person that I called? Because it's not like I tried six other people. Like, I went on a walk, I knew I was going to call you. I hit Simon in my phone, and it went. And for me, the biggest piece of that, the reason I knew that you were my person to call was because of the conversations we were having beforehand, which is you not only gave me the space for vulnerability, but you gave me language around the fact that people that believe part of their work, and that is part of my belief. I believe that so much of my work and what brings me joy and why I work as hard as I do is because I want to show up and help people.

And when we're having our high times and our high moments, you always have this beautiful way of saying, man, when we're high, we're high. But let's not forget, to to your point that we can't feel high always, right? Like we're going to feel grounded and part of feeling grounded means that we're going to dip below feeling, feeling, you know, level set. And that happens and it's frequent. And when it does, let's not run away from it.

And it almost made me feel stronger to call you to say, oh shit, I'm having a moment. That's like this moment that we're talking about. It was an invitation in to say, you feeling this way actually is validating that your work matters and that you're on the right course and that you're human and that you're all of these things. It was an invitation in to have a conversation around being human. And I feel like that was a really interesting, I don't know that that's even a backdoor invitation in it was just talking about the totality of what someone like you or me feels like in a day, a month, a year, the highs and the lows. That was the invitation. It was an open invitation. There's an insight here that is really important, right? Which is most of us, and we're all guilty of this, present company included, right?

Most of us offer to support our friends when we see that they are hurting or in pain, which is like calling to buy insurance while the house is on fire. And the insight is, is that we ignore the possibility of hard or bad times with ourselves or the people we love. We ignore them in the good times because why would we? It's like when the stock market is rallying, nobody thinks about it crashing, right? And the one thing we did, probably by accident, but the one thing that we did is in the high times and the celebrations and the high fives, we were prescient enough to say, hey, isn't this amazing? But remember, when this feeling goes away, we have to be there for each other. feeling goes away, we have to be there for each other. In other words, we bought the insurance early. You knew you had a policy when your feelings crashed. I had my Simon Sinek friend policy already executed, babe. It was filed away. I knew I had it. You just had to be like, I know it's in here somewhere. Right. Exactly. And I think what you're talking about is the responsibility of good friends.

And I would even go so far as the responsibility of good friends, the responsibility of good leaders, and the responsibility of good coworkers, which is in the very high times to start writing policies, to start writing insurance policies, saying, look, I hope you never have to use this. I hope your house never burns down. But on the horrible occasion that it may, just remember, you've got this policy, cash it in. This is huge that in high times, we're not Debbie Downers by reminding people, hey, this isn't going to last. We're writing insurance policies. Such a good insight.

It's applauding the high times and being like, but to be clear, no matter what the time is, I'm always your friend. Like, there's no fair weather here. Of course, of course, of course things are great right now. And to be human is going to be that there's going to be a time in life. And I want to show you what our friendship really means. Were you always good at asking for help or is it a skill you had to learn? I'm in fact terrible at asking for help. In a very interesting way, you are calling out a dynamic of our friendship that is, I would say, very bespoke to our friendship. I'm terrible at asking for help. I'm great at being vulnerable in certain moments with certain

people and the rest of the time I plow through it. So I'm not a one size fits all in this spirit of asking for help and vulnerability. So what is the reason you don't want to ask for help? I think probably the tricky part of like, depending on where you're at in life, the things that made you successful, oftentimes are the things that hold you back once you get to certain tiers of, you know, air quote success. To be an entrepreneur, you have to be to be a successful entrepreneur, you have to be determined, you have to go at it, like always stay in the game, never quit. Figure it out. That's not to say you can't ask for help along the way, but you have to be really determined to, you know, solving problems

and be okay that sometimes help doesn't come and you still have to succeed. And then all of a sudden being grown up and being like, oh, if I want the richness of life and surround sound, I have to invite other people in. I can't just, to your point, we can't just show, I can't just show up for people. I have to invite other people in. Otherwise, I stop losing the connection of like why cereal milk does the thing or you stop losing the richness of friendship. I'd like to call bullshit if I know. to call bullshit if I know. Because nobody, I know entrepreneurs who don't ask for help and they can only reach a certain level because they have to be in every meeting. They have to

make every decision and you can't achieve what you've achieved in the scale that you've achieved it without being forced. Even if you did it kicking and screaming, but you had to delegate and you had to let go and you had to ask people to do things and own things and run things and take accountability for things because you physically could not. Nobody can achieve scale without maybe not asking for help, but getting it. Perhaps it's for me, I'm being very literal about the, I need help. Will you help me delivery versus getting help? And part of the getting help for me is the, you have to be fearless as you're building. And then you have to be fearless from a failure standpoint, I suppose, both in building and when you're scaling and you invite other people in to the party truly into the inner

circle, you have to really trust and be fearless about the fact that people are going to fail, you're going to fail, people are going to let you down. You might let people down whether you're trying to or not. And just having like an emotional vigor about you that says no matter what happens, I'm going to be okay. Is your team good at asking for help? I would say that they're very similar to me in that I don't know I've ever had someone say, I need help, but rather an invitation in that sort of implies, I'd love your brain share. I'd love your feedback. I need your support, but not the, there's a little bit of this, like the fear of like being like, I need help and what it implies.

Cause that's actually, you're so great at that. You're so great at the, the balance of I'm curious and I'd love for you to unlock more than what I do or don't know without overtly being like, the help me feels like I'm drowning. The help me for me feels like I don't know how to swim, I'm drowning, I'm in over my head as opposed to the curiosity of inviting other people to the table and saying, tell me more. What don't I know? Tell me more. Do you know one of the things that I've learned is that there's two ways of asking for help, right? Most people think asking for help is, and you said this before, is the admission of defeat.

And so their temperament is defeated, right? I don't know what I'm doing. And can you help me? I need help. I need help. I'm drowning. I need help, right? And I've always thought of it as a mindset, which is to ask for help with confidence, right? Like, hey, can somebody please help me out here? I am completely underwater and I definitely need some help. Otherwise, I don't know, I'm going to drown or something. Somebody please just help me, right? And to have a sense of humor or a confidence in the asking for help is a mindset. So you're asking for the same thing you said, you equate it to defeat where I've learned to disassociate asking for help with defeat and simply associate asking for

help with I just need help. Whether it's my workload, whether it's my lack of sleep, whether I'm depressed, whether I'm confused, whether I made a bad decision and now it's compounded on me, whether I'm depressed, whether I'm confused, whether I made a bad decision and now it's compounded on me, or whether I'm just clueless or uneducated. All of those things are true at various points, sometimes in combination. I just need some help. But that's a powerful thing. You know how to call it out. What I think this conversation is doing is I want anyone who's listening to this to recognize that asking for help is normal. And not only is it normal, it's really nice.

So I'll just tell you a quick funny story. You'll appreciate this, right? So a friend of mine went through a really tough time and I didn't know about it. And she's a very close friend. Went through a really, really hard time. And I saw her and I was like, hey, what have you been up to? And she's like, I've been really depressed. I've been really having... I'm like, WTF?

I'm one of those friends you call. You've told me things before. Why did you leave me out? Why didn't you call me things before. Like, why did you leave me out? Like, why didn't you call me? And she said, I did. I'm like, no, you didn't. She's like, yes, I texted you multiple times. I'm like, what? And I go back and look at my text. It's like, have I been a horrible friend? And the texts say, what up? What are you doing? Want to come over? And I was like, you mean these? She goes, yeah. I'm like, you mean the ones that sound like every other text you send me? Like, how the hell am I supposed to know that you're struggling when you send me, what are you doing? And she came upon

some research that said that when someone is struggling or in need, all they need is eight minutes from a friend to hold space with them to make them feel better. That's all they need is eight minutes. And so now we have a code word, which is what up, how you doing? But when one of us is struggling, the text is, do you have eight minutes? And that simply means, I need you. I'm going to cry. No, it's perfect. It's perfect.

Eight minutes. Eight minutes. When somebody texts you, do you have eight minutes? Any of us can stop the movie, can walk out of a meeting, can walk out of a room and talk to a friend in need for eight minutes. We spend eight minutes in the bathroom for heaven's sakes. And we can be there for somebody for eight minutes. We won't, we won't,

no, we don't need to fix anything. We need to acknowledge that they need help and that they just need to know that they're not alone. And by the way, to be crystal clear, there is no greater honor that you could give a friend than to send them a text message that says do you have eight minutes like when you're in your own like darkness

yeah i get that you can't see clearly but there is no greater compliment and gift to let someone know how much they mean to you to send that text. For me, as a friend, there is no greater. There's no greater honor. That is the level friend that I aspire to be. And I don't have a zillion friends because I'm like the friends I have. I'm the eight minute text in the middle of the night friends. Like that is the friends.

I'm the stop, drop and roll friends. And to your point, the like, I don't even remember what we talked about. I just remember that making that call and that walk. It wasn't a two hour walk. No.

To your point, it's the, so much can happen in eight minutes. It was probably 20 or 30 minutes if I had to guess. Maybe an hour at the absolute most. Eight minutes. Eight minutes. And, and you, and you really, you really said it best, which is for anybody who says, I don't want to bother anyone with my problems. How dare you deny them the awesome honor of getting to hold space with you and sit in mud with you and give eight minutes of their life just to let you know you're not alone. Not to fix things, just to let you know that you're not alone in whatever you're doing. And sometimes it's not deep emotional stuff. Sometimes it's like,

I don't know how to solve this problem and it's silly stuff. But the thought that we don't want to bother our friends is unbelievably selfish. Bother me. I want to be bothered by the people I love. That is what reinforces my love for them. Be the eight-minute friend. And if someone in your life is not an eight-minute friend... Then they're just fun. They're just acquaintances. Totally. They just move them to a different place in your life is not an eight minute friend. Then they're just fun. They're just acquaintances. Totally. They just move them to a different place in your life. Yeah. They don't have to be ejected from your life, but you just wouldn't call them in a time of need and that's okay. I have friends that I wouldn't call in time of need, but I love them and I think they're great fun. They're just not on that speed dial. That's true. Can you tell me something you've done in your career? And it doesn't matter if it's commercially

successful or not. I don't care. But can you tell me a specific thing done in your career? And it doesn't matter if it's commercially successful or not. I don't care. But can you tell me a specific thing that you've worked on in your career that you absolutely loved being a part of? And that if every project or everything you ever worked on was like this one thing, you'd be the happiest person alive? Yes. I can tell you because it's fresh in my brain and my life. Bake Club. Bake Club used to be daily. because it's like fresh in my brain and my life. Bake Club. Bake Club is a – it used to be daily. Now it's a weekly club that anyone can join.

It happens on Instagram Live at 2 p.m. Eastern Standard Time every Friday. And I literally just – wherever I am, we bake something together. And I won't tell you what we're baking. I'll just tell you what the basic ingredients are that you need. And it's usually no more than, I don't know, three, five, maybe seven. And you just show up with a cannonball spirit of whatever it is, I got my ingredients ready, set, go. And we spend five minutes, 15 minutes, 30 minutes baking. I make a playlist every week. You listen, you dance, you watch, you bake, you make mistakes, you mess up, you burn stuff, I drop stuff, whatever it is.

It's a carved out time together to be intentional and free in a very lose yourself, find yourself spirit. And it's a club in a way that it's this collection of people that Simon are like, they're all over the US at this point. And they show up for each other. Someone at a club messaged me the other day and was like, hey, this person's mom died. And she had been battling for a while and she is having a really hard time. I want to show up for her. Her favorite thing is this one thing that you made this one time. Can you send a care package to her, et cetera, et cetera. But it has become this network of incredible humans. Some of whom to be clear, don't even bake. They just show up for the vibes

and the spirit of community. Some of them have never even met each other. They're just pen pals. And it's a wide open door for anyone and everyone to be the closest thing to that eight minute friend. And it's completely human. It's not choreographed. It's not rehearsed. It is me on whatever my, whatever I am at 2 PM on a Friday. It's a good day. It's a bad day. It's a rainy day. And I'm showing up and I'm, I am an introvert. I do not get energy from being out and about and, and, and, and it forces me every Friday to really ask myself on a good day and a bad day, like, what are you here for? What are you showing up for? Um, and it's an invitation. It's a, it's a door open into anyone that wants to come into my home and just needs some company or needs

to laugh at me or needs to laugh with me or wants to bake or needs an excuse or needs like a babysitter. Some people put their kids in front of bake club and it is the most, I love it because to your point, there's no transaction of commerce. And I love that it's this community of people that I have everything to do with and nothing to do with. And there's that it's this community of people that I have everything to do with and nothing to do with. And there's just like an immense pride of its stickiness and the space that it holds in people's lives. Tell me an early specific happy childhood memory, something I can relive with you. God, this is such a good question. My, like my favorite earliest food memory is, um, my mom, working mom comes to pick me and my sister up from, it must've been like preschool and

kindergarten, first grade buckles us into the back of the car, blue Ford Taurus. I always sit behind the driver's seat. That, that was always my seat. It was one of those sedans where you changed the gears with a little stick shift up here. And I remember her mom purse that had the multiple pockets and it was always old tissues hanging out and, and, and, and, and she put it in the middle because the front seat was also like a banquette bench. Yeah. The little armrest down. Where she would normally sit, her purse was empty and her purse was on the dashboard instead, which was very strange.

And she pulls halfway out of this like preschool, kindergarten parking lot and pulls over. And when they pulled over, my mom or my dad, it was because we were fighting. My older sister and I were fighting, kicking each other. Once I opened the door, because I was curious what happened. My older sister and I were fighting, kicking each other

once I opened the door because I was curious what happened. Don't make me pull this car over kind of thing. Right. And my heart goes into shock like, oh shit, oh shit, oh shit. What do we do? What do we do? And she digs into her purse. I'm like, oh God, what could this be? And she pulls out a bag of sugar babies that she left in her purse on the dashboard to be warmed by the sun. And out of nowhere, this makes no sense whatsoever, tears open the bag of sugar babies. And, you know, they're little brown sugar pieces. They're probably into the food for your taste, Simon, but they're very magical.

And she, like, doses out two to my sister. And I remember the clink of these two little pieces of like sugar coated candy clinking into my sister's hand and then into mine. And she pours a few into hers and just quietly, there's no words exchanged because we're so perplexed. And I don't know, she must've been having a good day or a bad day. I don't know. I've asked her, she doesn't remember the day at all, which is hilarious to me because it's so vivid in my memory. And we just eat these warm, brown, sugary, sugar babies that have been very intentionally

warmed by the sun. And I don't remember anything else about what happened that day, what happened afterwards. I remember it was done in complete silence. And it was the equivalent of when you watch someone as an adult eat something really good, and they just go. And you can see their sort of like eyelids flicker and take them somewhere. That's my first vivid memory as a kid that was joyful. And it had to do with sugar and dessert. What I find astonishing about you, and we've never talked about this, is that story, Bake Club, and almost everything we've ever talked about today is the exact same story. I hope so.

Which you've used the word invitation so many times today. I don't even know if you've even realized it. You keep saying invitation, invitation. And who you are is like, you surprise people with sugar. And I don't mean literally. You surprise people with sweetness. And that you happen to be a dessert person is just, it's just poetic. But the way you describe Bake Club is it started off in COVID to be this little surprise. You show up no matter what. And if you use what happened when that car as a kid, it's the same experience for people. They don't know what they're going to get. They don't know what kind of mood you're in. But all you know is you show up for other people. Your mother showed up for the kids. You don't know what mood she's in.

People don't know what mood you're in. But you're going to give them a little something that just brightens their day. And that's who you are. Oh, stop. You're going to make me cry. You are an introvert. You're also close to the vest. You're hard to read.

You know? There are times I've hung out with you. I don't know if you're in a good mood or a bad mood. And then all of a sudden, biscuits come out. And this, you have become your mother. We're kind of in the backseat going about our day, and then all of a sudden something happens. We don't know what's going on. And the result is something delightful and sweet. And that's what it is to be your friend. is something delightful and sweet. And that's what it is to be your friend.

Your purpose on this planet is to perpetuate what your mother instilled in you that day, to go the extra length. That's what it is. It's not that she just gave you the candy. She went to the extra length of preparing the candy and warming it in the sun. You said they were heated intentionally, and that's what you do. It's with great intention that you make preparations to surprise people with a little bit of sweetness in their lives, just a little bit to keep them going that day. That's what you do. Warming the candy on the dashboard has become an entire business and enterprise for you. A lot of effort, a lot of thought for a little bit of magic and a little bit of sweetness for the rest of us. I feel so seen. I feel so seen and also therapized in a way that... You know, I talk about cause a lot and sacrifice.

I talk about cause a lot and sacrifice. And people always ask me, I believe in quitting. I don't believe in stubbornness to a self-destructive level. But the question is, how do you know when to quit? And for me, the sacrifice has to feel worth it. I'm giving a lot, not sleeping a lot, working a lot, but the impact that I'm having. And if you ask me to do the equation, it feels worth it. There's going to be pain, but if the purpose is bigger than the pain, you keep going. And that's, you have struck that balance where tremendous amounts of effort, but it's all worth it. You're one of the hardest working people I know on the planet. You don't rest, but the amazing thing is to you, whether it's having

guests over to your house, or whether it's Bake Club, or whether it's the Milk Bar Enterprise, it's worth it. Because you get two little kids in the back seat to smile and have a little bit of joy and carry a memory for the rest of their lives. And we carry the memory little kids in the back seat to smile and have a little bit of joy and carry a memory for the rest of their lives. And we carry the memory of talking in the woods, and we carry the memory of our childhood when we eat cereal and milk ice cream. It's all the same story. It's so true.

How many memories do you have? Not that many, right? Not that many. We only remember the things that matter. Tozi, I love tozy i love you i love you hold on hold on before you go i want to share one more thing which is christina's recipe for an ice cream loaf it's the world's simplest recipe anyone can make this take two cups of softened ice cream which is basically one pint of your favorite flavored ice cream. Add one cup of self-rising flour. Add one egg. Bake it at 350

degrees Fahrenheit for 45 minutes in a loaf pan, and you will have made an ice cream loaf of your favorite ice cream flavor. Enjoy its magic. If you enjoyed this podcast and would like to hear more, please subscribe wherever you like to listen to podcasts. And if you'd like even more optimism, check out my website, simonsenic.com, for classes, videos, and more. Until then, take care of yourself, take care of each other. A Bit of Optimism is a production of The Optimism Company. It's produced and edited by Lindsay Garbenius, David Jha, and Devin Johnson. Our executive producers are Henrietta Conrad and Greg Rudershan.