A Geek History of Time - Episode 101 - How it Should Have Ended Part I

Episode Date: April 11, 2021

I'm not here to poke holes and suspended this belief. Anyway, they see some weird shit. They decide to make a baby. Now, Muckin' Merchant. Who gives a fuck? Oh, Muckin' which is a trickle, you know, baby. You know what it's called. Well, you know, uh, you really like it here. It's kind of nice and uh, it's not as cold as Muckin' or Muckin' or Muckin' or Muckin' or Muckin' or Muckin' or Muckin' or Muckin' or Muckin' or Muckin' or Muckin' or Muckin' or Muckin' or Muckin' or Muckin' or Muckin' or Muckin' or Muckin' or Muckin' or Muckin' or Muckin' or Muckin' or Muckin' or Muckin' or Muckin' or Muckin' or Muckin' or Muckin' or Muckin' or Muckin' or Muckin' or Muckin' or Muckin' or Muckin' or Muckin' or Muckin' or Muckin' or Muckin' or Muckin' or Muckin' or Muckin' or Muckin' or Muckin' or Muckin' or Muckin' or Muckin' or Muckin' or Muckin' or Muckin' or Muckin' or Muckin' or Muckin' or Muckin' or Muckin' or Muckin' or Muckin' or Muckin' or Muckin' or Muckin' or Muckin' or Muckin' or Muckin' or Muckin' or Muckin' or Muckin' or Muckin' or Muckin' or M So yeah sure I think we're gonna settle. If I'm a peasant boy who grabs sword out of a stone,

yeah. I'm able to open people up. You will, yeah. Anytime I hit them with it, right? Yeah. So my cleave landing will make me a cavalier. Good day, Spree. If Sysclothon it was empty-headed,

plubian trash, being trash is really good. Really good group. Because cannibalism and murder, we'll go back just a little bit, build walls to keep out the rat heads. And it's a little bit of a ground tunnel. A thrill and tent doesn't exist. Some people stand up quite a bit,

some people stay seeing a lot of the rats, so let me just... This is a geek-ish trip to the Philippines. I'm going to visit the Philippines. At the moment, I'm going to visit the Philippines. I'm going to visit the Philippines. Counting down the days. In a classroom for a change after a year in exile, due to a plague, and in news, my lightsaber,

that we talked about at the beginning of an episode, a couple of episodes ago, finally arrived, and I got the chance to play with it the other day, and my wife recorded a video that may very well wind up making me lightsaber middle-aged guy if I'm really unlucky and it gets out on the internet. How about you? Well I'm Damien Harmony I'm a Latin teacher up here in Northern California. I will continue to teach an exile for as long as I need to until the fall and I have to correct you you are going to be middle-aged lightsaber guy. You go

age then descriptor. That's how it works. And that's a foregone conclusion. That was great. Thank you. Yeah. And news of things that have arrived, my son, a few weeks ago, saw Rita Moreno on the Muppet Show from 1975. He immediately got a crush on her. Well, yeah. Yeah, but he's 11 and this was from 1975. Yeah, your point. My point is he ended up writing her a letter. Very cool. Yeah, knowing that she's 90, he's herald in modding it. Okay. He wrote her a very lovely letter and When he wrote down her address, he said oh, she lives in California. Yeah, we have something in common So I love his stuff. He's so wonderful What arrived in the mail the other day was a letter from Rita Moreno.

Nice. I called him to let him know and you could hear the smile on his face. It was very cool. I cannot wait for him to see it tomorrow. Very cool. So that is how we're rolling around here. So I like it. Yeah. Yeah.

So do you like TV? Well, yeah. I think we've established over the course of 100 episodes of this, you know, benighted project of ours. Yes, as a matter of fact, I do. I don't get to watch and dearly as much of it as I would like to. It sounds like you have a toddler. The last, you know, three years, oddly, there's a reason why the last three years have had

much, much less TV watching involved, but that reason likes dinosaurs. Yes, that reason is is a big fan of tyrannosaurus. And okay, I have to tell you this because you'll get a better answer. Oh sure, sure. Kind of definitely a segue, but so in a Facebook conversation with another friend of mine, who also has a, I think, his little boy is four. Okay. He made reference.

He had a post about, you know, we were having a conversation about, you know, dinosaurs, you know, which dinosaur would win in a fight. Uh-huh. And my response was, well, okay, no, you're both wrong because clearly it's ankylosaurus because that's what's been established in our household is ankylosaurus is the winner because clubby tail.

I like it. I like a kid who appreciates bludgeoning. Yes. Thank you. I'm like, hey, cool. The quarter staff. I'm like, yeah, yeah. And quarter staff, for that. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And his response was, oh, yeah, no, see,

around these parts, angular source is kind of a heel. I love it. So I love it. Yeah. So I, you know, it's dinosaurs and a heel reference, which I was like, oh, see. We're in that place. I gotta find a way.

Well, no, I knew face heal. I knew it, but I knew it from TV trims, but you've given me greater depth of understanding. Yeah. And yeah, no, the first thing I thought was, I know who I need to introduce myself to. Because you're gonna appreciate that. So anyway.

That's cool. So anyway, yeah, I liked me some TV. I do too. You know, I found that there are a number of series throughout my life that I have loved Oh, yeah, and most of them I have accepted as being completed For either good or ill okay like mash for instance. I loved mash and I loved its ending It was exactly what it needed to be Yeah, even though the beginning was really dodgy and just joined it to be perfectly honest.

Yeah. There's too much going on. It was like they kind of needed to have filler with each character instead of a, in a real tidy episode. Yeah. But once news came out that the war was ending in mash, then the episode really took off. Yeah. Because there's a long, it was an hour and a half episode.

I liked it a lot actually. And the central conflict was that Hawkeye wanted to hear how much he meant to B.J. and B.J. refused to acknowledge that it was all coming to an end and it would be gone forever for the two of them because they lived on opposite coasts. And that conflict, that love conflict, was tremendous and the acting was good, the writing was good. I liked the the chaotic nature of the ending too as the war was winding down. It felt very much like the war was ending. I thought that was a good ending as far as TV mood endings go. Oh yeah no I got to agree with you. Are there any

series that ended well for you? Oh see I I naturally just have a conflicted relationship with endings because an ending could be absolutely perfect and I'm not going to like it. Because if it's a series that I really love, I'm going to have a very hard time letting go. Oh, yeah. You know, and a lot of the that that I'm a fan of never really Had like a good ending the end of the series. Oh, okay kind of thing, you know didn't get there finale

Yeah, you know didn't didn't really get get a kind of meaningful kind of finale You know and and then you know a lot of a lot of shows that you know everybody talks about the finale for them You know weren't things that I was particularly a lot of shows that everybody talks about the finale for them, weren't things that I was particularly a follower of. I never got into friends, so when friends ended, that was not an event for me. And I had another series in my mind that was a slightly earlier vintage, oh, Seinfeld. Seinfeld, yeah. When Seinfeld ended, I remember watching, like making a point to watch it

because it was this phenomenon. You'd started it maybe. Well, I mean, I watched an episode here in there. Sure. And it was funny, but not, I was never a huge fan. Right, right. But this was gonna be this huge, apocalyptic event, big deal at the time.

And I was like, okay, well, you know, just so I can have conversation with other people and not reveal what an anti-social bastard I am, I should probably do this. And I have to say that ending felt forced. Yeah, like it didn't come to an that ending felt forced. Yeah, like it didn't come to an organic end. Yeah. Yeah, you know, I feel like it almost felt like

it was just another episode in some ways. And then at the end, they crammed a bunch of stuff in the air. And then spoiler alert, they're in jail. Right. And not only are they in jail, but there was a whole trial that brought out every character that they'd ever known Yeah, which yeah

Like 20 minutes. I mean it was like like really yeah, it was see like the next generation I think ended similarly Yes But honestly, I called that a good ending because it was a Star Trek. The next generation was a series of bottle episodes. Yeah. And it was a good episode, really. It, yeah, I really thought it was a good episode. It felt like just another good episode.

It didn't feel very finale-esque, even though the captain changed some of his behaviors and came to play poker. It felt like, oh, maybe we might have some character development. Yeah. And then it was over. Yeah. Well, that was over. Yeah. Well, that's one of the limitations of series like that. When everything is a bottle episode, is when there isn't a myth arc or an over, you know,

a film, you're right. Yeah, you're right. You're right. You use the phrase myth arc, because, you know, first exposure I had to that kind of trope was X files. Okay. Which never got the TV series got nending, but, it was not feeling kind of tacked on and a little and kind of forced. And yeah, it was just it was a little too, ending in the TV series felt oddly tidy for a show that was so amazing at,

okay, well, we're going to answer that question and the process of doing that. Here's five others. Right, right, right. You know, and okay, and here we're going to have what looks like an MOTW episode monster of the week. We're going to have a monster of the week, and then at the very end, oh, hey, we have a stinger for you in the last 30 seconds that's like, oh, hey, cigarette smoking man is back and why is he dealing with these people now? Right, right. For a show that like, fucked with your head as well as that one did, the, again,

spoiler alert, the bit with a molder, you know, looking at the microfilm and saying, hey, do you want to know who killed Kennedy? Oh, was, was like, really? That's, yeah. Like like you're just that feels like everything yeah it kind of was yeah and and you know it's an interesting note that by that time the show's creator Chris Carter had left yeah that often happens and and and because because he had left and he'd left a while before the the series kind of kind of spun out of kilter and like the West Wing Aaron Sorkin wound up leaving right and the entire last I want to say season and a half sure sure was just kind of a mess You know another one that started well and ended up I actually It started really really well. Okay, really really well. Um, and that would be heroes Oh my god, it was amazing. Right. No the first four episodes. Oh my god were Absolutely, I mean all the way down to the font that they use.

Yeah. You know, and the opening flash screens. Yeah, it's so comic. You know, so many, so many bits that were so great about it. I might be one of the only like seven people in America who actually liked the later seasons. Do you think it's actually seven? Well, I might count for two, but. I might be, yeah, well, okay.

Okay, here's the thing. If you haven't seen it, there's a dark carnival that is amazingly fun. And it felt like it was a comic book. It really did. Like a 60s four color comic. Okay. Here's, here's the thing.

Don't get me wrong, they overswirmed everything from season two. Okay, thank you. Okay. Everything after season one, really. You know, don't get me wrong. They overswirmed everything from season two. They absolutely did. It, it, everything after season one, really. And really I can blame that on the fact that the studios refused to pay the writers their royalties for DVD market. Share. Some people would call that a writer strike.

And that's to blame. I think it's the studios. Yeah, well, yeah, could have given them their pennies on the dollar. Yeah, no, heroes really did that, that, that. It's suffered. A period that killed,ies on the dollar. Yeah, no. Heroes really did that, that, that, it suffered. A whole period that killed, killed heroes, don't. Yes.

Yeah. And, and a bunch of other serious, like we, we could probably have a whole couple of episodes. Yeah, the plot becomes way overconvoluted for heroes. But, but I do want to come back to the finale of that. It's a battle that involves all the heroes cooperating. Yeah. To defeat Samuel, who is the leader of the Dark Carnival, who's trying to bury the entire

world in dirt and I think hate, I don't know, but it's awesome. It's, it's goddamn awesome. Okay, all right. It is. It's, it's, it's fun. Okay, all right. It's fun. Um, I don't think that that finale makes up for the middle seasons. Okay. there it is. But I do think it was a good finale and actually good finale. No where near on par and in many ways a retread of the first season. And that's true. But there are others, you know, there's others where if I could I'd rewrite the endings and you know there's somewhere it just didn't go far enough. Yeah. And there's others where like the whole last arc

really needs to be reworked. Yeah. And so I figured why don't you and I today talk about TV shows and movies? Okay. Because I think movies absolutely could get this too. Oh, well there's a whole website about how it should have ended. Yeah, well that's what we're doing today

is how it should have ended. Yeah, well, that's what we're doing today is how it should have ended for various TV and movies. I do, you know, you asked me a minute ago about a finale that I really liked. And this technically isn't a finale because series didn't end. But if you, for the whovians in our audience, and I'm sure somebody's gonna be mad at me for this opinion because this is the kind of thing. Like you didn't like how the rock opera Tommy ended. Yes, yes, as a hoovian.

Yeah, it was just, it was bad. Yeah, good, well done, well done. No, this is really not even mad. Not even mad. It was really a show about that damn, right? The hoovian damn. Nice. So, it's really a show about that damn right the the hooverian damn Nice so cuz that had a good arc to it did did as well. Yeah, yes, so it got a Boulder who very and Boulder as well. Oh, man. Wow That one I'm at about good day sir takes a lot of energy. Yeah

Generates it actually, you know So no the British TV series, of course, Doctor Who, oh yes, yes. Which has been running with a rather long hiatus in the middle of it, but it started back in the 1960s. Right. It is the longest running science fiction TV series ever.

Anywhere ever. Yeah. And in New Who, which is the seasons since the hiatus was over okay the 10th doctor Portrayed by David tenant. Oh, yeah, yeah, okay one of the one of the conceits of the series for the like one of our listeners Who doesn't understand about doctor and and half of the okay? Oh? on this yeah, like I know that there's a new who but there's also they they also invented a chocolate drink. Yeah, you who the you who yeah correct. So so and Horton

hears that's a whole that's a whole different one. Okay, okay, I don't want to get into that's that's very divisive in the community. Um, and and you know, we're thinking about canceling it anyway, because you know, Dr. Seuss and we're a bunch of, you know, kind of liberals. So, but, um, to get, you know, topical for a second. So, this is the lucky time list of them. Yeah, they never are. I'm not quite with that. True, Joe. So, so, um, there were, yeah, David tenant is, is probably my favorite actor to portray the doctor. Okay. And and you know,

the the conceit within the series, and he came up with this after the first two or three seasons, is the doctor, of course, is an alien, and he regenerates. And so, when an actor wants to move on to greener pastures, or the writing team changes, and they're like, man, we gotta change something up, whatever, they write into the storyline, a situation where the doctor suffers some, we're going to read your greener surgery. And he regenerates and we get a new actor.

And so, is it a Gestalt kind of thing? Is it like a trill inside of a host? No. Oh, okay. So it's it's it is it is he remembers everything that happened from all of his prior so to the show. In carnations. Okay.

But he is an entirely new person. Okay. And his personality shifts. And in his in his first episode, David Tennant does a really great job of portraying the, I don't know who I am yet. That's actually part of the psych out he does on the Big Bad Villain is, I don't know who I am yet. If I'm confronted with a big red button because there's literally a giant red button that's

like the Doomsday device, you know, I don't know whether or not I'm gonna push it. And it's this, you know, and he's like bonkers. And for the first 20 minutes of David Tenant's time as the doctor, you're like, oh God, is he gonna be like this the whole time we have? And then, you know, he, he, is it, is it per season? Or does each person go as long as it's like? It's several seasons. It's, Tom Baker, I think,

portrayed the doctor for the longest period of time. He was also the dad on Happy Days. Yeah, no. Different, different Baker. I was Tom Bosley. Yeah, yeah, but yeah, and for a lot of people, Tom Baker was actually my first doctor. He introduced, he was the doctor through whom I was

introduced to the series. And he was amazing. For a long time, he was my favorite doctor. And then David Tennant took over. And he was in the new series. And I was like, yeah, I know this guy. So anyway, his Tennant's last episode involves one of my absolute favorite supporting characters in the

entire series. Okay. Welfth who is the father of the doctor's long-time companion Donna. Okay. There's a whole lot of lore stuff. I'm hanging. I'm kind of getting and and Welfth is just this wonderfully wonderfully decent literally wondrous character. Like he has a sense of wonder. He's an old guy He's a veteran of the Great War. Oh wow. Who like the actor who portrays him actually has it as a point of pride that he's served in the war He served his country and he managed to do it without ever killing anybody Who need and there's and there's a wonderful bit of dialogue for him I mean I could I could nerd out about this forever.

But anyway, so, so Willf is the main person in Tenant's last few moments on the series that he's interacting with. Okay, no. And he has this amazingly wonderful monologue that culminates in, I don't wanna go. Oh man. And the wonderful thing about it was it was absolutely written and brilliantly acted and it managed to completely capture my own feelings about like yeah I don't like

this is beautiful and I'm on the verge of tears and I don't want this good to me and yeah it was absolutely amazing. So yeah okay, so yeah, I do have that one Okay, but that was It didn't be satisfying but saddening. Yeah, it was yeah, and but it didn't occur to me at first because it's not technically a finale Because the series is still ongoing and we're like three doctors farther down the line. Right. Okay, okay, but but in a way Sure, yeah, yeah, it's it's the end of and and. Yeah, I mean, there was, I don't even think I put the the this TV show in there. There was one called being human. It's one of my hands down favorite TV shows. Yeah, I've seen I've seen a couple of episodes. Yeah, the British version does a thing where

they slowly cycle characters out and new characters in and they keep the same dynamic. Yeah. And so the ghost becomes the bridge between the two and then she fades away and another ghost has come in. And there's a different werewolf and there's a different vampire and all that. All right. And it, you know, it's similar to what you were talking about. So like from beginning to end, you do not have any of the same characters. Oh yeah. Which I found interesting, you know, I was neither here nor there about it. I think I'd

cut my teeth, no pun intended, on the genuinely, no pun intended. I cut my teeth on the American version. Uh-huh. And I really loved those relationships and I think they did a fantastic job. They were tackling different things, but a similar thing. So, okay, so let me ask you this. Do you have a show or a movie that you think should have and did differently? Yes, I actually have several of them. Okay, I do too. All of mine can be summed up with the kind of theme of going out like a punk. All right, well thank you all for listening. This was fun.

Well, I mean, the theme, but I mean, there's a lot more to talk about, but what ties, as I was thinking about that, what ties all of the ones that I've been like, are you fucking kidding, ties all of the ones that I've been like, are you fucking kidding? Is either the show or characters on the show have gone out like a punk? And that, when I've spent, it's however much time, a year, six months being like a super fan, you know,

binging, whatever. If I've spent all this much time sitting in front of the set, investing myself in these characters, the last thing I wanna have the writers do is undercut that by- With lazy writing. With lazy writing, yeah. Or with an uncreative writing,

like they've written themselves into a corner. A corner and yeah, they got it out. Yeah, I will forgive that to some extent. If they end it it because to me, okay, so I don't have a theme other than I'm okay with emotionally satisfying endings that are not intellectually satisfying at all. Okay, I'm okay with that. Okay, not my favorite, but I I'm happy to close that book and I'm like, you know what, I enjoyed the journey. Okay, so, all right, so do you want to list off what we have? Yeah, I can start out by talking about the three the three TV

series that immediately uh-huh. Yeah, let's hear it. Let's hear it. We're talking about it. The first one is Veronica Mars. Okay. I have I have shit to say. Okay. About how Veronica Mars ended. All right. And then super natural, which could be right up the alley of a number of our listeners and several, multiple friends of the show were like, yes, yes, and I know exactly what you're gonna talk about, yes, and then Firefly. Which I kind of dragged in a prior episode.

But it's problematic, but I love it. I went as far as TV shows I went lost. I went Luke Cage and I went Twin Peaks. Okay, first series or new series or the comedy? The original, the OG. I have not seen the second one, the second, the redo, the reprieve. I have seen the flips of the, of the, of the re-read. Yeah, yeah, yeah. It's like Lynch didn't get any less weird. Good. I don't want to say he got weirder. Right, right.

But it's, it's like, imagine the weird, was the original one, and then, and then, and then, and, and, and, and, and, and then, and then, and then, and then, and then, and then, and then, and then, and then, and then, and then, and then, and then, and then, and then, and then, and then, and then, and then, and then, and then, and then, and then, and then, and then, and then, and then, and then, and then, and then, and then, and then, and then, and then, and then, and then, and then, and then, and then, and then, and then, and then, and then, and then, and then, and then, and then, and then, and then, and then, and then, and then, and then, and then, and then, and then, and then, and then, and then, and then, and then, and then, and then, and then, and then, and then, and then, and then, and then, and then, and then, and then, and then, and then, and then, and then, and then, and then, and then, and then, and then, and then, and then, and then, and then, and then, and then, and then, and then, and then, and then, and then, and then, and then, and then, and then, and then, and then, and then, and then, and then, and then, and then, and then, and then, and then, and then one and then and then and and updated and introduce some additional kinks in that hose okay okay yeah what movies did you pick um you know really uh I I I'm I'm torn talking about this because I really really really enjoyed episode nine a lot I I have episode nine online on and on an emotional level on an emotional level I there was an awful lot I liked about it but there are a bunch of things that's just stick in my teeth. Yeah I know that undercut that experience. Okay. And then I know We can both have a conversation about episode three that's on my list as well and and really for me because I mean

That's that's really the those are those are probably the two biggest ones. Okay, off the top of my head with movies Okay, you know, I'm I'm you know Gene Siskel used to criticize Roger Ebert that is saying that he was the Pillsbury Doeboy of movie critics if you push the button he giggled. Haha I'm kind of that way. Okay. It's movies. I'm pretty forgiving sure Like you know what I showed up in the theater. I had an excuse to drink way too much soda and and you know Yeah, just just be entertained. It was an experience. Yeah, if it was an experience, I'm fine. Okay.

You know, I have to work to engage the part of my brain that like, okay, no. Right. You know, or like, well, that's just shitty writing. Right. Like, this is gonna be like episode one. Uh huh. Um, I didn't have a problem with Mitzari.

I didn't have a problem with Midi Chlorians until I left the theater. And my best friend who was, a whole bunch of us have gone in a big group. Yeah. Because, oh my god, new Star Wars for the first time in forever. Yeah. Uh, and he said,

the mitochondria of the fucking force. Yes. And that that engaged the part of my brain, that mother fucker. And like, like, just completely shot so much of it right there. But like, again, if the spell had not been broken by my friend rolling a natural 20 on his dispel roll, right? I'd have I'd have spent days being like, oh yeah, no, I love that. That's that's her seat. Yeah, yeah, it's awesome You know and and you know on on as time went on of course on reflection. I'd have been like Yeah, okay, you know, but yeah in the moment, okay? You know, I'm a popcorn movie viewer. Well, as far as movies go, I also said episode three and episode nine.

Okay. And I also added, and I'm short on these, these two movies, they can be tackled pretty in short order. Okay. Titanic and jaws. Actually. Okay. Yeah. here's the thing And I'm dead see I get it. Yeah, you know and and the thing is Um, I'm most interested in jaws. Okay

But I'm also at the same time intrigued about how the fuck could Titanic end differently? Everybody fucking drowned her froze today, right? Right. Right. We we're historians. Yes. We know. Yes Like there are whole manifests. Yes. There has been so much ink spilled over this. I kind of want to know In a whole ship like yeah in a whole ship. Like, yeah. You know, like, like, I want to know what the, what the, what the hishy on that is because like you want me to start with it. Uh, yeah, let's get this.

Since we can tackle it quickly, let's get that one because that's going to beg my noodle until we do. I, you know what, I can do Titanic and jaws. We'll just go as nautical as fuck. All right. And then we'll come back to a TV show or a movie that we want. Okay. And I think what come back to a TV show or a movie that we want. Okay. And I think what'll end up happening likely, I would recommend that we hold off on our episodes

nine and three until the second episode. That will inevitably be inevitable. Yeah, because it's not. Because you can never do anything in a bottle episode. Yeah, I know. So, all right. So, yes, Titanic needs a different ending. And I don't mean that it needs to not sink the ship. That's fine. That happened

Yeah, but it shit get around no, no that is that is the ice for us who've been for us who've been it's a fixed point in time There you go. There you go. You can't time travel your way around that one. Yeah, it's it's it's gonna wind up on the bottom of the North Atlantic in two pieces right right by the way which important point and importantly also Leonard Dimoid did not know that it ended up in two pieces when he did the the the documentary on it in the 1970s. Oh yeah well nobody did. They thought yeah that it feathered because yeah because of the class issues involved in every single one right of the upper class survivors saying oh No, the ship stayed hole in one piece and all of the steering survivors going. Oh, no, right, gov it broke in half like a fucking

Yeah, yeah, and and and the courts Ignoring yes one entire group of people because well, you know, they're gentlemen They wouldn't lie right except maybe to defend a bunch of other gentlemen. Yeah, but anyway, so Getting off my high horse Yeah, well, I just want to finish up that in the Leonard Nimoy point He is the reason that I thought CE stood for common error instead of common error Because of his accent. When he did that, the timbre of his voice,

when he did that documentary in the 70s. Yeah, I couldn't believe that. Yeah, and so for the longest time, I was like, yeah, common error. And I say it quick enough that nobody would catch that I sang error, not error. Yeah, and so. Or they just think you were from Missouri.

Yeah, it could be, you know. So, but okay The reason why Titanic needs a different ending is is quite simple It shits all over several of the officers who were heroes not shitty people and it should be redone To just adjust those parts. Okay, so many of the officers performed admirably and did their best to save lives especially first officers will William Murdoch. Okay? In the movie, he's accepting bribes,

he shoots a passenger, and then he commits suicide. All of that's bullshit. And by the way, I will point out to you that a ton of detail went into this movie because James fucking camera. Well, yeah, because he's obsessed with it. But the ship sank almost in real time. From the moment that they hit the iceberg, to the moment that it goes, go, go, go, go. Oh, yeah, oh he's obsessed with it. But the ship sank almost in real time.

From the moment that they hit the iceberg to the moment that it goes globe, globe, globe. Oh, yeah, oh, that's easy. Maybe a 10 to 15 minute difference, and that's it. Oh, yeah, no, real time's it. Working for James Cameron is apparently one of the most stressful things you can do as an actor. Yes, yes.

Like, there's a whole, I don't remember whether they made a documentary better or if I've just heard the stories of any times I think so but like there are trauma stories about the experience of people who who films the abyss like that oh yeah yeah like a fucking nightmare for everybody involved yeah so yeah and I I'm a firm believer that you shouldn't have to torture your way to a good performance yeah so I'm I kind of, I resent that. Yeah.

But yes, so if you've got a movie that pays this much attention to detail, surely you could have gotten that shit right, or at least not used that guy's name. So the movie producers ended up paying 5,000 pounds to send up a set up a memorial fund and apologize to Murdoch's hometown for getting his life so wrong on the last day of his life. The other officers who performed their duty should have also been highlighted and the movie sank the boat in nearly perfect real time so it's not like you can't put some detail and I get that you need to tell the story that's happening But it's okay to have all of those people you could still have hawkley be the shit head

Yeah, and his man servant and that's all that needs to be a shit head you could have very hero of people Yeah, well I think my doctor served better. Yeah, I well, okay. Yeah, I totally agree with that. I think I think Cameron was trying to make a very American point could be that. I think I think Cameron was trying to make a very American point. Could be. Could be. And in doing it because one of the things that gets our hackles up on a certain level when we look at incidents in British history is there we like to think we do not have a class structure in our country. Yeah. Even though Hawkely fucking says it in the movie, we are royalty rose. Yeah, yeah. Yeah, and so like in Great Britain, it's going to, I mean, even from today, it's going to take

generations from now for the very overt kind of class separation in British society to get erased or muddled enough for it to be anything like what we think a Gallowatarian should look like. And so I think he was editorializing. And I would say we don't get to say that. No, we don't. I'm, yeah, I am 100% in agreement with you. But yes, you're right. He was editorializing that. You still could have done that with the passengers and not besmirched the officer who infected their jobs and the sacrifice of those. I say to one people.

Yeah. So here's what I think. After we do, and this is just organically happening right now, after each one, the other person says, yeah, I like that ending better or no, I think it's not worth the rest. So do you think that ending would have worked better?

Oh, yeah. Oh, by far. I think that whole plot line would have been, would have been at least as good, probably more uplifting. Yeah, yeah. Well, and more tragic too. It would have been more tragic in a nobler way.

Yeah, yeah. All right, let's talk jaws. OK. And then you'll get to pick your show or movie that's not Star Wars. All right. So jaws. After it was determined that the tiger shark wasn't eating people. Because that's what they thought it was originally.

Yeah, originally. Since no human remains were found in the tiger shark's guts, because they caught the Tiger Shark, right? The mayor should have closed the beaches for the summer, and the shark would have just gone away. But then we don't have a nautical version of duel. You could have had a lockdown for one season, and then they could have avoided all the rest that happened. You know what I mean? I don't feel like you're talking about the shark anymore. No, I am. It's clearly a shark. I don't think you're talking about

beaches or a shark anymore. I know. I think there's something more. Yeah. I think there's I think there's you think. Jaws has something to teach us to. I think I think it does. And I've seen killer that we can't we can't close the beaches because the economy Yeah, I think I think you're alluding to something I don't think you're wrong your argument, but you know what has happened to my fist. They've turned into ham What is that whistling oh god and anvil? What is that whistling? Oh God an amful. Okay, well so absent that happening okay, all right, which

Should have but then it would have been a 20 minute movie. Yeah, which which is you know, like We wouldn't have gotten the meat Clint. Yeah, like like doing the made the made for CBS version of You know, uh basic instinct. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. 10 minutes and then what are we going to do? Uh, but, uh, which ironically, you know, I only need to watch that movie for 10 minutes when I was a kid. So. So. Anyway, absent that happening, I would have loved to have seen the aftermath.

Oh, okay. The actual aftermath. What happens when Brody and Hooper get back? What happens to the mayor for his gross ass negligence? I say you fast forwarded a year. You give us an epilogue of 10 minutes, right? It's lazy, but it's going to do the job. Have the mayor being unforgiven by the town?

He mounts a failed campaign to be the mayor of Amity again. Have Brody run against him. He was the sheriff, have Hooper come back for a visit, and absolutely mentioned that, you know, yeah, I spotted another great white recently elsewhere, and I'd love it if you'd come along. Have him invite him and Brody declines, wishes Hooper luck, but have the mayor's negligence during an emergency be the focus at the end. Because I think that would be a really good plot point. Plot point for movie.

From 1975. Yeah. Honey baked? But no, it's where the apple of goes. I really do. I agree with you. I think what's kind of sad is that of course Roe Shider wasn't able to come back for the sequel and so what we wind up getting instead is at the

beginning of the second movie Rob Schneider Rob the shark master Eat people. You know, I'd pay money. Yes, I'd pay I would I would I would put green backs down on counter for a ticket only time I'd say that about a rob Schneider movie ever ever But but I would totally I would you could get five bucks in my mouth for that. Yes, you good not much more than that No, five bucks. Yeah, but you know, we you good. Not much more than that. No. Five bucks in your salary. But, you know, we wind up finding out at the beginning of the of the of the sequel. Right. That, um, uh, Brody is dead. He had a heart attack.

Yes. And it's this throwaway fucking line, which is one of the biggest criticisms of the sequel. And if I remember correctly, the mayor is still in power. Yeah. Which like, fuck that, you know, in honesty, I thought that that was dumb and impossible. And now I'm 43. Yeah. So yeah. So it was prophetic. A little bit. All right. So you think jaws could have been improved or? Yes. Okay.

Oh yeah. Okay. No, I think that would have been, that would have been great. Hard to improve on a masterpiece. Yeah, no, it's an excellent, it's an excellent film. Mm-hmm. Hard to improve on it. I think that would have given a better sense of closure Yes.

For the ending. I really, when you talk about an emotionally satisfying ending, I think, because you know, the ending as it is is just kind of your done and kind of exhausted because it's been, it's been this, you know, roller coaster ride for the last, easily last 30 minutes of the film. Yeah. And you get done and you're just like, okay, I need to go take a nap because I'm wrong out. And, and having, and if the new wall would have kind of given you a little bit of a chance to

emotionally get a little bit of a chance to emotionally get a little bit of Yeah, well and the movie started with such deep-rich characters, too Yeah, you had that dinner scene. Yeah for no good reason. Yeah, you know, you had people going about their lives Because it's a spilled right but you had people going about their life So show me people going about their life. Yeah, you know, yeah, book ended. Yeah. Yeah. No, I like it Do me a TV show. Okay, so You know, yeah bookend it. Yeah, yeah, no I like it. Do me a TV show. Okay, so Because I can hear I can hear friends of the show and our listeners

Champing at the bit about this. I'm gonna. I'm gonna start with supernatural. Oh, okay, yeah And and I'm gonna start off making really happy and then I'm gonna piss them off. Okay Um, I believe my brother said it was an appropriate ending by the way Okay, yeah, I'm I'm I could be wrong. He doesn't listen to the show. Yeah, so yeah, well, you know, so okay, um, so spoiler alert for, you know, anybody not not up to date on this, um, Dean goes out like a punk. Okay, say it again. Dean goes out like a punk. All right, and that makes me really angry because of the two main characters of the series. Dean was identifiable. Sammy was kind of mopey and emo. I mean, you know, they're great characters, but of the two of them, Dean was the one I looked at and went,

you know what, if I found out that the world was populated by vampires and, and, you know, gin and werewolves and demons and shit, that's probably the way I would emotionally react. Okay. I'd be that guy like, no, you know what? If my job is to defend people and yes, my job is to defend people because I know this, so three or eight rule, I gotta do it. You know what? I'm gonna eat some fucking pie, and you know, I'm gonna try to try to, you know, have fun while at the same time

tamping down my boundless rage at, you know, the unfairness of the universe for doing this to be. Okay. And so the manner of his death in the finale uh-huh, served nothing. And I will happily, if your brother disagrees with me, I will happily argue with him about this. I want that on an episode. It served nothing except to leave a bitter taste in the mouths of fans who had been watching the show

for 15 fucking years. Yeah, it's as old as like ER was. Oh, yeah. It's older than Mash. It's as old as Gray as Anatomy is. Oh, yeah. It's half as old as Gray. I think it's almost as old as Gray's Anatomy.

I think Gray's Anatomy is a year or two older. Well, because it started as Brown's Anatomy. So yeah, nice. I thought it was Brown's Anatomy. So yeah, nice. I thought I was Blond's Anatomy, but okay. And so right out the gate, the ending just feels like a huge letdown, because it's, you know, he's one of the main dyad and like he dies in the middle of a minor fight with a bunch of vampires when you know the scale of the show had turned into this huge gigantic thing. But my problem, at least he didn't die during like commercial. It's true. Yeah. Because you know then you have

half your dyad, dyad time time nice. Thank you nice well done Not even mad on that one But but my problem goes way way deeper than that Okay, and this is where I'm gonna gonna wind up getting especially especially Tessa Cuz she and I she and I outside of the show she and I have kind of had this argument I think the show was roughly three times too long Okay, that's fair. I think it ran, again, it ran for 15 seasons. It was this juggernaut of a thing.

Yeah. And in my opinion, it should have ended at the end of the yellow-eyed demon slash a verdicty apocalypse storyline. That does seem like a natural fit of ending. A hinder? Yeah. Doesn't it? But given my love of wanting to see jaws close up, life does go on.

Obladi Oblada supernatural. Yes, but here's the thing. So there was, you know, it started out being monster the week episodes for the first two or three episodes. And then, and then you really start seeing the beginnings in the first season of, oh, hey, there's this notebook and, you know, their father is off hunting this thing. And they're trying to find a dad. So they're following these breadcrumbs.

Their dad is leaving for them. Mm-hmm. And, and you very quickly figure out, oh, there's, there's going to be, there's going to be a myth arc here. Okay. It's going's gonna be cool and you really get into it and you find out you know they're they're tragic back stories linked to it and their father's been hunting the specific entity for all this time and that winds up leading into the introduction of Castiel as a care of the angel as a character okay there's this, it gets, it gets truly mythic. It gets like no kidding, meaningfully epic.

We're not overusing the word. And then they wind up averting the apocalypse. Cool. And then in the beginning of the next episode, in the beginning, very beginning of the next series, all of a sudden there's gonna be a civil war in heaven. All the angels are now gonna be fighting against each other and the brothers get sucked into a civil war in heaven. Then in the next series, in order to

solve the civil season, sorry, I'm I've lapsed into the British. But in the next season after that, the Civil War in heaven has been resolved. But in order to resolve that, Castile had to summon Leviathan, which is the grand daddy of all monsters, and the King of Hell is still trapped in hell. So now Leviathan is unleashed upon the world and now we have an even bigger big bad. Okay, so I see the problem is that they're scaling up and how can you go from that? And I personally feel betrayed by this personally. As betrayed by this because as a wrestling fan I can I can I can I can get on with it. Well, yeah, well, it's it's a little bit It's a little bit beyond just just the I have invested so much in this and you're and you're fucking with it I went to Comic Con. Uh-huh Between I want to say seasons five and six. Okay, so that would have been 2010 roughly. Okay. Oh nine. Okay. Oh nine

And and my best friend and I went to went to Comic Con together and we went to the supernatural panel Uh-huh, which was in the gigantic big hall because everybody there uncle because it was a show was huge Yeah, everybody wanted to be there. So we were there with you know 4,000 of our closest friends and watching this panel, you know The guy is up up in the front of the room. Yeah, yeah. Just like it's tall as your thumbnail. So they had gigantic screens and, you know, loudspeakers and everything so you can hear them. And, uh, Kripke, the first showrunner, the kind of guy behind creating the series, had left at the end of the prior season.

And they had new people coming in. And they specifically said said and I remember thinking yes they said I want to get back to shooting monsters in the face with a shotgun. Okay. And I was like oh my god yes let these two guys go back to being a couple of pieces from a hunter campaign. There you go. There you go.

Like let's do that and then the next season started up in, oh no, Leviathan. Like, So you fucking lied to us. Well, he wanted to, it doesn't mean that. Yeah, well, it, so, yeah. So in wrestling parlance, it's the same thing. So you've got a wrestling card, right?

Your first match should not leave the fucking ring. It should be high energy. It should get the crowd on their ring. It should be high energy. It should get the crowd on their feet. It should get them going. It's first season of a thing, right? It's capture their interest or you're not going to, right? Yeah. Your second match builds on that. They still shouldn't leave the ring.

Maybe someone goes outside the ring, but gets in quickly. Third match, notice what's not happening in any of these matches yet, right? Yeah. Third match, maybe you have a disqualification, maybe you have a count out, fourth match, let me out. It's a let me out match. Unless you're in Puerto Rico, and in that case, the fourth match is the main event

because everybody's gonna get really fucking drunk and belligerent. Hahaha. Hahaha. What happens? They will throw cups of urine at you filled with batteries. Like. So, what we're saying is Puerto Rican professional wrestling is like lucha libre on hard

drugs. Yeah. Okay. Like, yeah. Oh, I can't even compare it to Lucho Libre, but But okay, so your fourth match if it's an American show. Yeah, um should be a let me up match So maybe not a gimmick match, but a comedy match perhaps okay, um shortage Chance for people and and people know when they're wrestling, you know in different matches I like okay, I'm the popcorn match and it's when you go up and get popcorn, you know

And that's okay, and you know you do your job and you work your way up another part. Your fifth and your sixth matches should build the intensity. And really a card should only have eight or nine matches ever. Your seventh match should really build the intensity. Your eighth match needs to bring it back down intensity, your eighth match needs to bring it back down. Okay. So that you have somewhere to go. Now your, your, your final match, if there's going to be blood, you should make sure there's no blood anywhere else in the car. If you're fourth met, if your final match is going to go all

over the arena, everybody stays in the ring for the rest of this so that it's special. Yeah. And in a match even, because if you don't book it right, what will happen is by the time you get to the main event, the audience is exhausted. Well, yeah. And in a match, a good wrestler, get all that, all that. Absolutely.

And if you get to the main roster, or if you get to the main event in everybody's spent, a good wrestler will slow that match down. So everybody's gonna just start like being disinterested. Good wrestler will slow that match down to just like a simple headlock for like five minutes, just to bore them and reset them. And then you're bringing them lower and then you can take them back up.

And what you're saying is after the apocalypse, it sounds to me like they should have gone back to living their lives. Yeah. And they should have gone back to hunting minor deities and monsters, not like, because what ended up happening in the late 90s and wrestling was first matched out of the ring. It's all over the fucking place. There's blood everywhere. Second match is a hardcore match.

There's even more blood everywhere. Third match, there's a cage match, no real reason. There's just throw them in a cage. Fourth match, Braun panties, fifth match, you know, and it just like, to the point where you can't have a main event that doesn't involve somebody not getting thrown off of something really high. You know, which by the way, that match

that I'm referring to, everybody knows, McFolly goes off the hell and sell, that was not the main event. That fucked up the main event as a result though. Because no one remembers that Austin and Kane were the main event. And there was a title change, the hero lost. But nobody remembers it because... Or I don't know if the hero lost on that one actually.

No, he didn't lose. I think he fought Kane off. But nobody remembers it. Yeah. Nobody remembers that. I think he fought Kinoff. But, uh, no, remember, yeah. I remember his match because he'd already blown your watch. Exactly. So it sounds like supernatural should have listened to old school bookers. Should have. And, you know, and, and the, the central, I think, sin that committed by doing all of that was that you can't just keep going up.

Right. You have to come back down. You have to come back down. And it's frankly just fucking lazy. And I think this is an example of the way you set it back at the beginning of our conversation about this, that the writers kind of painted themselves into a corner. I think mentally they could not wrap their heads around the idea of, no, no, no, we need to bring it back in. And here's the deal, we can still have really high emotional stakes without having to have it be literally the end

of the world and everybody gets devoured or you know I mean the final season the final season is they literally wind up killing God. Like it's I can't even get into it like there's characters and the thing is and the shame of it is Yeah, the shame of it is that over those ten seasons that I am kind of saying shouldn't have happened sure There are these incredibly great moments. There are these episodes that are absolutely fucking brilliant. Yes There are characters that get introduced there's like super Super Net there, Warhammer 40K, has incestuous, tangled, complicated fucking lore. Super Net natural comes really close.

Like, I can't begin to express just how, like, yeah. Oh, I'll get into one that does a similar thing. It is just, there is so much going on. And there are so many characters and the depth of the world that they wound up creating was so amazing. And it's like, could you not have found a way to do that without having to have it be the apocalypse of the month? Yeah, because then all apocalypse is errr.

Because it's like, why do I care now? Right. Like I care about these two dudes. Right. I care about Dean's, you know, hetero life mate, maybe not so hetero life mate, Castiel. Mm-hmm. I care about Crowley.

I care about, you know, these characters that I'm like deeply invested in. Okay. Like your overarching myth work is fucking boring. Right. Because we've seen it before. Yeah. And then, and then, in the final episode,

to have them do all of that, and then after 15 years of all of that, to then choose to have it be, and you know, because this is a dangerous dangerous lifestyle and this is the way it was always gonna end Dean winds up dying in a pointless fight against a bunch of vampires and with his dying breath tells Sammy to you know go off live your life you know get out of here get out of this life you know get out of this life be happy and then we see Sam as an older man like you know with a with a wife and a kid and I'm like if you wanted to do that at the end of season five, you could have done that

at the end of season five. Like we've averted the apocalypse and you know, but now I've got 15 years invested in all this and now you're gonna do them like a puck. And I don't think it would have been good even at the end of season five See I I think you could have gotten away with it. Mm-hmm. I think it wouldn't have been as Egregious, but I still don't think it would have been good

As it was I think it was worse because at the end of all of that No, no, no, you've you've you've had them literally rewrite the universe, or their rewriting of the universe adjacent, essentially. And so, no, no, you have to give them a happy ending. Like, to me, at that point, narratively, and he gets killed in this pointless way, is that's like lazy writing on top of lazy writing. It's like, well, you know, and now we gotta do this thing

narratively because this is what we gotta do to not have it just be and they all live happily ever after. We gotta kill somebody. No, find another way to do that. And I don't have an alternative to it because by this time I wasn't even following the series but I feel strongly about this because I loved the show as much as I did. And so I heard about how it ended and I mean I hadn't watched it in the least six years, but you know

It still made me angry because like the fuck You know, okay, I have I have thoughts here. Okay One and I've never seen a single episode of this show. Okay It doesn't sound that different than how the ending of Jason Y. Argonauts goes. Okay. He dies getting squashed by his boat. Yes, this is true. He has outlived his purpose.

Yes. And there's that exhaustion. It also reminds me of General Patton. Yeah. Getting hit by a car. Yeah. Well, the dumb fucking guys to that. Yeah, it's all the car wreck, but yeah.

Yeah, you're right, you're right, you're right, but And blood out yeah, so first part of it if they if if you got medical attention center. Yeah, well it was 1945 Yeah, no, I know, but but I think that I see I don't mind a person in a dangerous lifestyle dying in a very Oh, he shouldn't have lost that fight kind of way. I think that that actually underscores and reminds us of, oh the shit they were doing was dangerous as fuck and one little accident could missed that. I'm cool with that. Now I had never having seen it, right? However, I have a compromise between me being cool with that and you being angry at that. He lives to a ripe old age and then dies repairing his roof.

Yeah, I'd have been fine with that. Yeah, that would have worked. Okay. You know, because that would have essentially been a happy ending. Mm-hmm. And it still would have been. And it still would have been. Yeah, you know, he got to have a long life.

Okay. You got to do whatever he did. And, you know, he's mortal. And there you go. Yeah, I would have been a little bit. Sometimes bad things happen. Yeah, sometimes you just like your numbers up and that's all there is to it. And actually, there could have been meaning in the fact that he died in such a random,

you know, one day. One day in kind of way, in that. Especially in a show called supernatural. Yeah, one and two, they're wound up becoming kind of an overarching, kind of sub-theme of the series that like, supernatural forces were at work manipulating, fucking everything. Oh, okay.

And if he died in a no kidding, completely random way, he kind of wins. Okay, so there's your ending that you want. Yeah, okay, so that works for me. Yeah, I've never seen it. My brother said that if I recall correctly, he said that that ended in a way that was satisfying to him. Okay, well, you know, it worked. And, you know, power to him. I'm, you know, I don't need to tell anybody they're having fun the wrong way.

No, you can have your opinion. The whole point of this show is to do that. All right, so I'm going to hit you. It sounds like you hit me with one that was, was that your favorite of the ones? Oh, okay, so I'm gonna save my favorite as well. Okay. So I think I got that one out of the way because I know that I mentioned that there were people like yes yes do that one. Alright I think I'm gonna hit you with a short one and then a longer one and that might be time for us. Okay. So first one Luke Cage. Okay. All right. My favorite of all the Marvel series that was on Netflix.

Okay. Holy shit, this one was amazing. Like I accept that the opening episodes and the characterization of Matt Murdoch for Daredevil was better. I accept that was overall better as that thing. I accept that the first season of Jessica Jones was far superior to all the others. However, Luke Cage consistently was a close second

to everything. And therefore it was the, by rank position voting, it was because it was always number two. It was so fucking good too. And it wasn't what I Think was the best for season like I said it was that was Jessica Jones, but Jesus Christ Jessica Jones was traumatic as fuck. Oh, so

Hey, I'm deeply deeply I can't rewatch that one, you know, even though there's such amazing scenes in it and they've attacked me. Yes, absolutely. As who plays a remarkably good villain. Yes, as the Purple Man kill grave. But Luke Cage balanced it so well as as a series balanced everything so well for two seasons. I had no problem with their reimagining the rather problematic villains from the comics. Yeah. Oh my god. I love these updates because they actually work and they're not racist as fuck. And at that time, they were still progressive for that time. Or that era. So it's nice to see that you get in a way that you don't have to add that asterisk. Right, it was white dudes writing what they thought black people were.

Yeah. Instead of like hiring black writers, but okay, it was excellent all the way except for the last 15 minutes. And maybe this kind of gets at what you talk about going like a pump. Last 15 minutes of the last episode of the entire series fucking ruined it. It ruined that episode. It kind of lightweight ruined the entire series for me and here's why. Having Luke Cage take over the club and hint very strongly at him now being the Leviathan of Harlem, that weakened every bit of growth and

stubbornness that he had had. All the moral uprightness, the I just want to sweep up this floor, all that whole growth gone because he has now become his environment instead of a beacon in his environment. Instead of a beacon for most of the people in his environment who are being oppressed by a powerful few in his environment. Instead of a beacon for most of the people in his environment who are being oppressed by a powerful few in his environment, he now has been like, well, I literally have to be the Leviathan, the Thomas Hobbes Leviathan. And I don't like that one bit. Instead, here's my ending. They offer him the power of position and he refuses it. Have him straight up walk away. He's always wanted to be his own man anyway. He has always been a reluctant protector of Harlem.

Have him keep doing that from pop shop even. The power vacuum that that stance would create would serve to frustrate him. It would serve to have people think of him as a villain because he should have stepped up. It would bring in another villain or two to fight and He would keep his moral center and ultimately he'd have to walk a finer line of doing good Come and being good. Yeah, because he took the he took over to

Do good he legit was like shit. This is the only solution open to me. I think that that is a broken, broken solution. And it's a Hobzian solution. Yeah, it is. As you say. Exactly. Yeah. And I would much rather have him go a manual camp on it. And I think that they even bring it up and it wasn't, maybe, no, it was the second season of Jessica Jones. He shows up and she tells them, you know, like, watch out for yourself there, you know, look out what you're becoming. And he's, you know, he kind of has a fatalistic attitude toward it.

I really don't like that. And here's why especially- I think you're true to him in the comics. No, it's not. He's not, he's not a, the character is not a fatalist. Right. Like we spent a whole bunch of time when we were talking about civil war,

which was a bunch of time talking about Luke Cage. Yep. And that's not that character. No. That is not a true to the source material and interpretation. Right. And here's the part that really bothers me. Anytime you do a turn like that, you would better have a third

season in the fucking can. Because if your season gets canceled, you've ruined that character forever in that series. And that's precisely what happened. Yeah. That's precisely what happened. And so I, in as much as I resent when people fuck with fiction, I resent what they did to Luke Cage.

So I think having him refuse and walk away and continue to be a reluctant hero with new wrinkles and have a power vacuum. All that. He caused and yet he, if he steps into it, he becomes the thing he's fighting. Yeah. I think having him stay on the outside of that is much better. He chooses to step away from the abyss rather than continue staring into it. Yeah. So I agree with you. Okay.

I like that concept a lot. I think that would leave more narrative room just in general too. Yeah. Once he's in that position, as that power player, that constrains what you as the writer can do with it. Exactly.

And there's a reason there's a whole genre of lone swordsman stories. Because you can put a lone swordsman anywhere. Right. And like, okay, we know who this guy is. We know his motivations. Yeah. Plop, here he is.

Let's run it. Whereas somebody who is at the top of a hierarchy like that, that there's so much inertia tugging that anything they're gonna try to do, that it's really hard to be. They become a small rudder on the back of a big ship. Yeah. Yeah.

So yeah, no, I agree with you. So, and he adopted Harlem as his home. He wasn't from it, right? And that was established in the first season. He adopted it. So him being the leader of it, he is still an outsider And I have a problem with that. See he can be an outsider protector More reasonably than he'd be an outsider Ruler ruler. So yeah, no, all right, so this sense to me. I think I think you are I think you are your solution is a far better one thank you all right so the the last one

the one we're gonna end with this time and then we'll get into both of our favorites yeah and then we'll both get into the Star Wars is yeah I'm gonna end with Twin Peaks okay God I love the show. I loved this show Just so good a show. I don't think there's ever been a show that has at once captivated and traumatized my Psychic to the level that this show did Yeah, that's that's a good. That's a good yeah in encapsulation now now in fairness you were probably in college when it came out. I was in middle school Shus The disrespect sorry you are my elder credible disrespect. Yeah, three years jackass

Okay, but that three years is important as far as the show. Yeah, yeah Okay, not gonna not gonna lie there. Yeah, but you know, but Well, yeah, yeah. Yeah, okay. I'm not gonna lie there, but, you know. But, yeah, okay. So, Oh, you. Wow. Twin Peaks was a short lived, bizarre, lynchian exploration

of the gross underbelly of a smallish town. Yeah. And by smallish, it had 52,000, 50, 51,201. It shows it right there on the front of each episode, which was roughly the size of Walnut Creek when we moved to Walnut Creek, and we're watching it.

It's a little weird. So I can see, I can already see some residences for you going on there. So it centers around the murder of Laura Palmer. By the way, this is streaming on Netflix, y'all should watch it. It centers around the murder of Laura Palmer. By the way, this is streaming on Netflix. Y'all should watch it. Yeah. It centers around the murder of Laura Palmer with a bizarre FBI agent coming in to solve the case because they had crossed state lines. Yeah.

The whole town is filled with bizarre people. Each one appears to have their own bizarre substories. Yeah. They solved the murder, I think, midway through the second season. Oh, yeah. Yeah, though the first season was actually midway through the second season. Oh, yeah. Yeah, though the first season was actually a truncated season. It was only like eight episodes. Yeah, yeah. And frankly, it should have ended.

It should have ended there. That was the reason for it's start. But to get there, a whole bunch of other plot points should have tidied up too. They could have done that. Some sort of resolution for all the different characters going through the stuff that they were going through. Instead, so I think that that's what should have happened, but instead the show honed in more and more reasons to keep Cooper and Twin Peaks. He solves the murder and then

he's like, well, I really like this town. I'm going to keep whittling. I'm gonna trade in my suit for flannel and a weird vest. And yeah, yeah. And then and then and then. Like it just plot after plot. Yeah. Now in fairness, David DeCovny does show up in drag and that's cool. But. Yeah. To reach their own.

This show famously ends with Cooper's doppelganger having gotten out into the world and thus the darkness from the Black Lodge seems to have won and the town of Twin Peaks still has the evil in the woods to deal with. So given that, they shoehorned a bunch of reasons in, and it a different way from what I just suggested. You've already shoehorned reasons to keep him? Yeah. Fine, you didn't end it with the way it should have ended.

Here's another option. Okay? Cooper starts off in the pilot mentioning the killing of another gal, Teresa Banks. And she is diagonally away from Twin Peaks at the other end of the state. So he's in the upper northeastern corner, she's in the southwestern corner. Like that's in the pilot when he talks to the city council,

to the city gathering. So given that, okay, have all the shoehorned reasons add up to the black lodge having selected him years ago and having him cursed to stay in Twin Peaks forever make it an actual curse and every time he thinks he's got no more reason to stay another one pops up they fucking did that anyway have the series end with him having escaped the Black Lodge just as it happened but instead of the doppelgangers freaking my 12-year-old and frankly 43-year-old self the fuck out, have him meet Harry downstairs for one more cup of coffee and a piece of cherry pie. And as he's walking out to his car, have it blow up, giving him another mystery to solve. Make the series about a minor mystery and a major

mystery per season for about four more seasons until he finally realizes that the bookhouse boys are actually the agents of the Black Lodge and that Harry and company have been keeping him here to keep their town from being overwhelmed by the darkness of the Black Lodge because he is the light that they need and they are trapping him there to keep the the darkness back. So instead of inviting him to be a bookhouse boy, they forcibly insertitiously recruit him, and really the evil underbelly is all the people

that are, has been his allies in helping him this whole time because the greater good for the, you know, the have that happen instead of, you know, the guy who kills people and puts them in chess pieces. the guy who kills people and puts them in chess pieces. Quite safe. Yeah. Wind him Earl like seriously like, oh, and I love that character. Yeah.

But come on. Come the fuck on. But that's what I would want to see. I want him to to win but still lose. Yeah. Have him be cursed. Have him stuck there for the rest of his life and have him realize it. Nice. And still not be able to get out. That I think would be better than the doppelganger get out. And frankly, since you're putting all

the shit in, it allows all these other characters to develop. Dick from sporting goods, who is Lucy's Paramore, who's just Bazaar, but have all these characters, and that's fine. But you've solved one thing, solve another thing, solve another thing, solve another thing, and then you realize you're trapped. Okay, yeah. So. I like it. Yeah.

To the extent that I know how the original series originally went. I think you're right. I think Lynch really just digs the idea of being dark and creepy for the sake of being dark and creepy. I think that's his aesthetic for some, well, but but you know what you're saying about you know the doppelganger and everything I think I think That's not just an aesthetic choice. That's a that's a I think he grooves on the idea of you know evil being

You know the the Titan worm right right, you, the nihilism kind of involved in that seems to be part of that. And I'm just not a fan of nihilism. So I kind of like your take on it better for sure. So have you found any themes in the shit that I've said? So, have you found any themes in the shit that I've said? Because yours is clearly, you don't like people going out like a punk. Yeah, not in the same way. Okay. No, I think your choices are very much more rooted

just in, again, as you pointed out, emotional satisfaction and again, as you pointed out, emotional satisfaction and narrative, what makes for more satisfying, emotionally satisfying kind of conclusion. I mean, is what we're both looking for, but all of mine are centered around basically a pet peeve. Yeah. And yours genuinely, I think, are more meta. Yeah. I think would be a way to say it.

More of an overarching theme. Yeah. And I think that's definitely Definitely meaningful. I you know, I think I think Paying attention to The the ending of anything is really like anybody who writes anything will tell you. That's the hardest part Yeah, money Python very famously, you know if you watch money Python circus You know the police come in and shout right right you're all under arrest it just got silly right right, you know No, I expect the Spanish Inquisition, you know, yeah

Like you know have somebody kick in the door, you know, it was like a dash. You'll ham it novel But with rubber chickens instead of guns have somebody you know break it break down the door. It was like a dash ill ham at novel, but with rubber chickens instead of guns. Have somebody break it and break down the door and randomly spout something. My brain hurts. Because they admit freely, if you interview any of the surviving bifons, they'll say, oh yeah, no, we couldn't figure out anything since I I have our lives. We, you know, we get to a point and just be like, all right, well, and then it ends, which on the one hand is great because that gave Graham Chapman the op not Graham Chapman.

John, please. No, the American, the one that did the animations. Oh, Terry, Terry Gilliam. There you go. The one who then also became a huge, you know, film director. Yeah, it gave Terry Gilliam the opportunity to do all that amazing stop-moved animation because like, well, you know, we need something to take up three minutes. Okay, you know, have Terry, you know, drink five pints and come up with, you know, a cartoon, which we all win, but it's rooted in, they couldn't figure out how to end anything. And I think mine, the ones that I've chosen so far, to me come across as we couldn't come up with an ending, and so we cheaped out. Yeah.

Yours are, this is an ending. They definitely put work into this ending. Yeah. I think they could have done better. Mm-hmm. And I think that's the difference. As I think for me, I'm left with a sense of, you didn't fucking end it.

Like you chickened out and you couldn't commit. Yeah, yeah. So that works What do you think? What is your take less over? I think it's interesting you you spend so much energy and time on the mythic aspect of it and You're also thoroughly dissatisfied with the intensely mythic ending that supernatural had yeah, because that is mythology That is you you have finished the important thing. Now you can rest Tony.

Now you can die. Yeah. And just because Dean goes out fighting a low level co-bold, it is a dangerous world he lives in. Yeah. And so, and I personally, I like the idea of of him telling his brother, get out of this life. Yeah. Now, I have no connection to these characters whatsoever. So, maybe I would feel differently having watched it for 15 years. But I, you know, I like the idea of a mundane death after. I think your problem was in many ways, more with the fact that they had no way to come down

from what they had done. Yeah. And that's entirely valid. In the end, I think that's really my biggest biggest piv. Yeah. So it's not so much the ending, because you even said you could have put that ending five, you know, 10 years earlier, and it would have been more appropriate.

But I also think that, you know, you could split the difference there. So, but I do think it's interesting that you find myths so alluring and so dissatisfying all at once, because most myths are very poorly written endings. Oh yeah well yeah. Because it's about the journey. Yeah. You know. Yeah. And in fact what Jason is one of the very few people who actually lives past what he does. Yeah. The combination of the story. Yeah no it's true. You know so. It's true. But yeah. Yeah. Yeah. You read me anything? Not at the moment. OK. Because you and producer George gave me an Xbox. So that's true.

I'm busy trying to learn how to pilot an X-Wing. Ah, nice. Nice. With a lot of my spare time. Nice. Right now. Are you enjoying that? I am.

Good. It is definitely a learning group. I actually found out my folks who are visiting this weekend. I found out for my father that what I thought was just a bizarre control scheme in the way you try to pilot anything in squadrons and Xbox. It's actually the exact same way that you would pilot a remote control airplane. Oh no kid. That whole weird yaw is on the left stick

and pitch and roll are on the right. And then the throttle going up and down is on the same stick as yaw. Right. To me, seems completely counterintuitive. Oh, interesting. You know, from having played on the computer, played, you know, I, I, I described that.

And I had said, oh yeah, no, that's, that's exactly like, you know, remote control aircraft. I was like, oh, so no, that's that's exactly like, you know, remote control aircraft. I was like, oh, so that's where they got it. Okay. Well, I'm just gonna have to suck it up and learn how to do it then. You can reprogram me sticks, you know, yeah, I know, but I don't know what a better formation would be. would be sure like I've thought about putting pitch and y'all on my stick and then roll on the left with throttle but I am afraid to switch it and see how bad. Now I've started learning how to do it this way. Sure, sure. Seeing how completely you know, ask over T-Cat, I wind up being, you know, changing them.

I'll go you one better. Okay. I'm left-handed when it comes to buttons but not when it comes to buttons, but not when it comes to sticks. Oh, you're fucked. I'm so thoroughly fucked Yeah, well, I'm like so when it comes to rifles. Yeah, I'm I'm right. I'd left-handed Okay, yeah, yeah cross dominant. Yeah, yeah, that shit's hard with a shooting rifle My friend Sean has the same problem. Yeah, and it is a problem, right? Yeah, yeah. And now put that on controllers. For your balls. Yeah, you know, I, well, we will play some Nazi zombies, perhaps. Yeah. And you will see that I can, I can throw a grenade.

Perfect. Perfectly. All right. All right. Well, I, I, yeah, I just finished watching Troy fall of a city again. Okay. Oh my God, I, it got panned. I think it's amazing You remember my discussion of Batman fighting Bane. Yeah a killi's fighting or hector fighting a killi's

Yeah, you to keep that in the right order Is is very similar thematically. It's an outsider who is way too dominant Coming and taking out the defender of a city. Okay. The soundtrack is silent, except for the brutality of the fight. And it ends with both heroes getting defeated. Yeah. But it's so good.

If you have not watched it, go watch it. Okay. It's nine episodes. It's so good. If you have not watched it, go watch it. It's nine episodes. It's fantastic. What I always get a kick out of is the low scale of it all. Like the, you know, and it makes sense, actually, in that era, like amazing walls would just be like probably three layers of rock.

Yeah. Only nine feet high, you know, like, and that's the thing. It's like when I think of the walls of Troy, I think they're like 20, 30 feet high. Oh, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no, no You know, like, and that's the thing is like when I think of the walls of Troy, I think they're like 20, 30 feet high. You know, what I think of honestly, I think of the the Ottoman Empire's walls over around Istanbul. Yeah. You know, or I think of the Ottoman Empire's attack on Constantinople in 1443. Yeah. Yeah, it's phenomenal. The work and the detail that went into it and the characterizations, and I mean, they do such a good job with the women of Troy, with Hecuba and with Andromache, and how they

treat parrises, dalliancesances and how they treat Helen. I love it. So as far as a series goes, I would recommend watching that. As far as a book goes, I would recommend reading the Odyssey translated by Emily Wilson, her specific translation. Yeah, you've heard of this.

Yeah, yeah, yeah, I have it. I'm trying to remember the details off the top of my head. Basically, it's a woman translating it for once. So she doesn't use words like slutty to describe women in her translations. And her translation, I mean, she's a really good translator too. And she goes back and she's like, well, you know,, this word actually means

probably closer to this and on and on and on. And so she's a very different nuanced translation. So I would recommend reading that. I cannot speak to a good version of the Iliad yet, but I'm gonna do a little bit more research and probably come up with something for that. So. All right. All right, so where can people find you on social medias? But I'm gonna do a little bit more research and probably come up with something for that. Okay. Alright. Alright, so where can people find you on social medias?

People can find me on social medias at EH Blaylock on Twitter and you can find me on Instagram and TikTok as MrBlaylock. And you can find both of us if you want to holler at the two of us about something or suggest an idea for a show or point out something that we've missed in our analysis because we're inherently, you know, unavoidably American. As we've been reminded recently. As we have been reminded recently. And thank you to that. And thank you for that.

We collectively can be found on Twitter at Geek History Time. And now if they want to talk to you about Titanic being the greatest work of cinema in Western history, you heathen. Where can I do that? You can find me at duh harmony on the Twitter and the Instagram. You can find me at duh Harmony on the Twitter and the Instagram. That's where you can find me to yell at me. As far as other things go, you can find me every Tuesday night at GeekHist. No, that drops every Friday. It does. No, you can find me every Tuesday night at Capital Punishment on Twitch.tv,

Forwards-CapitalPuns. I also have another show that I do on the YouTube's now with Ian McDonald who is my partner. We talk about the mobile game Marvel Strike Force. And it is a lot of fun and he and I put together a really good tutorial for early people and we discuss different reactions and stuff like that. And I think it dropped either today as of this recording, or it'll be dropping tomorrow. But by the time this recording releases,

there are at least four episodes that are up that you should go check out. And you can find those at Excelsior Gaming. We're the one that says 99 problems, but a stitcher ain't won. Okay. So that's where you can find me. Other than that, all the shows that I've got going on, they're probably already happened by the time this releases.

Probably. Yeah. But, all right, well, for a geek history of time, I'm Damien Harmony. And I'm Ed Blalock, and until next time, keep rolling 20s. Until next time, keep rolling 20s.