A Geek History of Time - Episode 102 - How it Should Have Ended Part II

Episode Date: April 17, 2021

I'm not here to poke holes and suspended this belief. Anyway, they see some weird shit. They decide to make a baby. Now, I'm not gonna merge it. Who gives a fuck? Oh my god, which is a trickle, baby. You know what I'm saying? Well, you know, I really like it here. It's kind of nice and it's not as cold as Buckleman.

So yeah, sure, I think we're gonna settle. If I'm a peasant boy who's wrapped sword out of a stone. Yeah. I'm able to open people up. You will, yeah. Anytime I hit them with it, right? Yeah. So my cleave landing will make me a cavalier.

Good day, Spree. If Sysclothon it was empty headed, would it be in trash? It's really good and gruey. Because cannibalism and murder, we'll back just a little bit, build walls to keep out the records. And it's a little bit of a ground type of thing. A thorough intent doesn't exist. Some people stand up quite a bit,

some people stay seeing the way they're going to. So let me just... This is a geek history of time. Where we connect an hernery to the real world. My name is Ed Blalock. I'm a world history and sometimes English teacher here in Northern California. And in, let's see, three days from now, I will be actually in my classroom seeing students, at least from the cheekbones up, for the first time in over a year. And there is a weird combination of emotions involved in that. But I don't want to spend too much time getting into that. Rather, the personal detail,

I think I'm going to open our episode with this time, is that my wife and I have finalized our plans for this June. We are going to be taking our little boy to Disney World in Florida. He's three years old. We're only hitting one park and it's going to be Dumbo or Die in a day, one day, one day thing. We're only hitting the Magic Kingdom so I will not be able to get a lightsaber. But I am gonna get to take them on the teacups because my wife has indicated she's not gonna get anywhere near that. And like the Peter Pan rides in Fantasy land, all that stuff, I am so excited. And it's far enough out that right now I can convince myself that, no, no, by then,

enough people will be vaccinated that I'm not going to spend time staring at the ceiling freaking out about this. No, no, I'm not. Shut up. Shut up, brain shut up. But, yeah, no, right now I'm mostly really excited about it. How about you? I'm Damien Harmony. I'm not making any plans just yet, because I've remembered my history. I'm a Latin teacher up here in Northern California,

and I studied a good deal about the influx of them. I just have hope. All right. I just, I'm flinging, just let me. Okay. Let me hope. Hope is free. Okay. And unfortunately, that's what most districts seem to be spending on their classrooms. So yeah, I'm not going to Disney World as fun as that sounds as rad as that does sound because it does sound fun. Yeah. I just also remember that Disney Land is where measles outbreak happened while we were vaccinating. well no no no no we weren't

We weren't not enough of us word that's the entire project. Yeah fucking dammit You can keep me up late record now. I'm gonna keep you up late But no, I'm sure it's gonna be fine. Um, you'll be the odds. Yeah, you always do Yeah, all right, so I'm here for that. Let's see personal detail. Um, no, I've done nothing newsworthy in the last Two weeks at all. Uh, I didn't call out parents for structural white supremacy. Oh Jesus Christ You know, here's the thing. You know, you're saying that like you, you, you think somehow the fact that it has been treated as newsworthy means you're saying it's not newsworthy as ironic. No, it shouldn't be newsworthy.

No, it really should. Because you know, for the like three of you who are listening, who are in parts of the world where this story hasn't been picked up by the right wing, David, as a parent, I'm going to point this out because this part of the part that pisses me off the most. As a parent made public remarks to the district board of the school district where his children go to school, not the district in which he is employed. Right. Okay. Separate district, he's not an employee of that district, he is a parent in that district. And there are a number of parents in that district who are far louder than their numbers would logically indicate. I would say that their volume is, what's the opposite of inverse, where it matches?

Well, inverse, inverse is where it a good term. Good word. Count on a Latin teacher to have the vocabulary that way. So a small but very loud and very loud and very loud. So that's a good term. So that's a good term. So that's a good term. So that's a good term. So that's a good term. So that's a good term.

So that's a good term. So that's a good term. So that's a good term. So that's a good term. So that's a good term. So that's a good term. So that's a good term. So that's a good term.

So that's a good term. So that's a good term. So that's a good term. So that's a good term, good word. Count on a Latin teacher to have the vocabulary that way. But so a small but very loud and moneyed group of parents in the district where he is also a parent have decided or had decided that they were not happy with a hybrid plan that the district had agreed to and signed an MOU memorandum of understanding it's a contract legally binding legally binding modification to the contract for teachers to go back to school on a hybrid schedule with kids you know they're part part of

the day these parents were apparently convinced that, no, no, that's not good enough. Well, I'm hanging on. Rip back it up just so it pairs. Purr my dalliance into pointing out structural white supremacy. What I found was, in fact, that it's not just these parents, but it's parents in just about every district that's doing this, the minute the doors open, the shout goes out for full instruction, full everything, squeeze

them all in together, call it safety and call it good, and this shout is coming from a group called Reopin, California, and that self-same group is tied in many ways to other privatization groups and found a whole lot out on Twitter. But privatization was not an angle I was aware of. Yeah, and and they're aiming at wedging constituents against the only at large executives in a state who can also appoint judges so that you can get those people recalled and replaced with people who are either less progressive or less of a Democrat. And then you've got the judges, you've got the executives,

you've already got the legislatures, because very often those are gerrymandered like crazy since 2010. And now you have full control over curriculum, books, et cetera. So now this is me drawing a lot of lines that are very easy to draw because of evidence, but that is what we do here.

But yes, that led to the human cry that came against me, which long story short, most of the media outlets have had to print corrections, have had to do retractions, have had to change their copy because as it turns out, I show up with receipts. As always. Yeah. Anybody who see the thing is, if any of these people had listened to this show, as they should, as they should, as they should, although, you know, we'd probably give several of them, you know, strokes, what with our... I don't mind, like I said.

Yeah, well, yeah, okay, all right, granted. But, you know, if they knew who it was, they were fucking wit. They would not have done this. Right. They would have understood from the get-go that, no, no, no, the remarks he's making have their receipts. They're there. He doesn't show up without doing his homework.

And the other telling detail here. Just listen to the far side episode. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Ubu, what? Sit. Ubu, sit.

Good dog. And so, you know, because that's the only reference I had to Ubu before we did that. But in any event, before I fall too far, staring down our own collective naval, the next issue that was truly profound about this whole experience was, what Damien said was he referenced structural white supremacy. And immediately, immediately, the story that went out was not that he had brought up structural

white supremacy in the way that the questionnaires to parents had gone out or any of the other issues that were involved in this set of decisions. Rather it was, he called us white supremacists. Now it's interesting that when someone calls out a system that you so identify with the advantages of that system that you then transfer the epithet on to yourself and then defend it as though you've been attacked personally. It's odd. That's a really fancy way of saying, I cut a general garment and you claim it fits.

Yeah. You know, I mean, to go back to, I want to say that's Shakespeare, but really, really, he talks about structural white supremacy and you take that as an accusation. Frankly, that says more about you than really he did at all. I'm glad you're here. So yeah, well, yeah, I'm saying that because, you know.

Because it's true. None of the people who are gonna, you know, sick the daily male on me actually listen to our podcast. So right now I'm okay so anyway yeah so that's I haven't done anything like that no no certainly not you a bomb thrower no not all so some bombs need to be thrown here's here's some personal details my daughter fell down the levy on her bike going really fast okay still walked herself home and let me clean her up. And can we have her first major spill?

Okay. And two days later, I gave her a day off. I said two days later, I was like, get back out there on the bike. You don't have to go levy, but you do have to get back out there on the bike. You had a good time. All right.

So we're going up to the levy this weekend for it. All right, and she doesn't have to go back down it, but she needs to start facing that. Yeah, oh yeah, of course. Yeah. My son, sweetheart, that he is lost to fish. Oh. Yeah, and he was devastated. And this particular fish had a really active day, but he was floating a little oddly. And that's a sign. And then the next day he was, he seemed dead and we had a nice long talk about it And I said, okay, were you ready for me to scoop it? Yes, I went to scoop it and a little fucker started just swimming all over the place. I was like oh

So I've now explained to my son what hospice care is So and and how it's it's a wonderful way to go out where your last day is your funnest day and the next day you just rest Until you stop and so the next day you just rest until you stop. And so the next day, that's what we did and he's just a sweetest boy. And to go back to just a little bit what happened in the news, my daughter spent the entire time of spring break watching me go through this and I was very open to them what was going on and she was angry as hell at the unfairness of it all. She thought, they can't accuse you of the thing

that you called them out for. That's not okay. And she's an eight year old's understanding, which is still three years older than the understanding of those who went after me. But she went after the injustice of it all. My son sat down next to me and says, Dad, if you played today?

I said, no, I've been really worried about this and dealing with this and arguing back and forth with the editor of Newsweek. And he says, well, you should play too. I said, you're right, you're right. And he says, hey, they win by making you think you're alone and you're not alone. Now that's a Star Wars quote,

but that is absolutely the right Star Wars quote. It's 110% is and... In my daughter you have justice and in my son you have compassion. In your daughter you have lay in and your son you have Luke. Yep. Oh, well done. Yeah. Yeah.

So, that's what's going on. Nice. We didn't tell people to fast forward by eight minutes, but by this point, you know, too. Yeah. Um, so last time, uh, uh, speaking of how things began last time, we were talking about shows and how they should end it. Yes. Um, and you are going to hit us with another show that you rather enjoyed. Yes. Yes. So, so last time I started off by possibly incitingiting some some controversy by saying that supernatural went on for way too damn long Now my next show is kind of the opposite It didn't go on as long as any of us would have liked and

Have you seen I know this show the days No, no, okay. That was a really good family drama for four episodes. Oh, yeah, yeah And have you seen the days? No. It was a really good family drama for four episodes. Oh yeah. It was only for four episodes. Oh that sucks. Oh yeah. And then I was like, oh, okay.

That's it. It didn't make it. Okay, not the days. No, no, this one and the funny thing is, I've said that line and everybody in our audience thinks they know where I'm going with it, and I will get there. Okay, my brown coat friends, I will get there, but that's not where I'm going right now.

Where I'm going first is Veronica Mars. Okay. Now, I remember that coming out in the mid-2000s. Yes, yes. Okay, 2004 and 2007. Mm-hmm. Three seasons. Oh, that is truncated. Yeah. Or, God, yeah, it was fucking heartbreaking. Oh. So, so, um, do you remember the, uh, uh, oh, now I'm forgetting your name.

Uh, Kristen Bell? Well, no, I'm, I'm, I'm making a, I'm forgetting her name. Kristen Bell? Well, no, I'm making a, I'm tying this into another reference. The Sarah Michelle Geller film that was a high school retelling of dangerous liaisons. Oh, yeah, yeah, cruel intentions. Cruel intentions. Yes. Okay, so cruel intentions took the plot of dangerousous Liaisons, which was a court intrigue, seduction, you know, everybody is awful to everybody, kind of story, and they managed

to recapture the shock value by setting it in a private high school. They did. Now, the problem they had with it though was that, I mean, you're missing John Malfovich. Well, you're missing John Areves who I maintain actually did a very good job in that movie. John Areves does a good job in just about everything he's ever been. Yeah, like, you know, he gets, he gets, he gets hampered by shitty scripts. Yeah. Or, or by directors, you don't know what to do with him.

Yeah. But he is incredibly but he is incredibly He is incredibly eloquent As I talked about for my my students from the cheekbones up Yeah, he he can do things with with just expression and without having to say a word that's absolutely but anyway But also Glenn close was in that yeah, and most importantly to me Oumithurman was in that. Yeah. And most importantly to me, Umat Thurman was in that. Okay. And she got naked.

So any remade of it. Most importantly. Yeah, okay. All right. All right. Only Redhead I've ever found attractive, I think. Okay. But yeah.

So any remake of it is not going to be as good. Okay. All right. But it doesn't mean it doesn't have value indeed Yes, so so crew intentions was okay. We want to we want to do this this film We want to tell this story, but we want to we want to recapture the shock value of oh my god How awful these people are being to each other? Yes, and so in order to

Accentuate all of those tropes, we're going to set that in a high school and seeing kids being this shitty to each other. Mm-hmm. I mean, like young adult kids, but still kids is going to be a shock to everybody's system. It's gonna be like oh my God, children acting this way. And you know for anybody who wasn't immediately familiar with you know dangerous liaisons and and that whole plot line, it worked. Veronica Mars did the same thing with noir detective stories. Oh no kidding. Okay. Okay. Okay. Like all of the noir beats are there.

All of the tropes are present. It is an absolutely god damn pitch perfect. Noir drama. Okay. Set in a Tony High School. Sure. In, in, if you look closely enough at a great many of the sets it was filmed in San Diego so it already has a spot in my heart just for

that reason. But in the in the fictional town of Neptune, California, which you know on the on the map of you know, fictitious California is somewhere between like the northern end of LA and Santa Barbara. Okay. Like a coast. Her name is Veronica Mars, as a Neptune California. Oh, yeah. There are all kinds of different stuff.

Oh, yeah. And so, Kristen Bell did an amazing job. She carried the whole show. Portraying, you know, she, if she had not been as awesome as she was, it probably wouldn't have gotten off the ground because her character was so critically important. Right.

I am not going to sell anybody else on the cast short. Okay. Her dad, he was the sheriff, but then to basically to recap the backstory before episode one, Veronica's best friend was murdered. And there's a bunch of suspects. At the time her best friend was murdered, her father, Kristen's father was sheriff. And he immediately zeroed in on the murdered girls family who were over, over, over, over, over incredibly wealthy, you know, Bill Gates. I think a really what's his name found at Apple.

Yeah, Steve Jobs. Steve Jobs. Yeah. Kind of family all, all the money. Yeah. Yeah, I mean, was the ex not entirely as evil. But anyway, you know, all the money in the world, all of the protection in the world, security director for the corporation who is clearly a fixer, like, you know, shady looking,

where's a Trilby, like in 2004, like, you know, like down to the costuming tropes. He's a bad guy from a noir film. And so he went after him and it turns out it wasn't anybody in the family that did it. Okay. An employee or a former employee of daddy tanks, you know, he wound up taking the fall. And anyway, okay, no more tropes from there. Right, right. And in Rico Colantoni played her father.

Who's in Rico Colantoni? The eight, I'm trying to think what other, what other shows you might have seen him in. Flashpoint, he was on Flashpoint for a number of years. Okay. He's done, he's done a bunch of character actor stuff. He's that guy. He's that guy. Yeah. And, and absolutely like amazing acting. So this is a dark carnival version of Encyclopedia Brown. Yeah, that's a good, okay, yeah. Actually, That's a good, okay, yeah, actually, Encyclopedia Brown with bricks of heroin

and privileged students making runs to sequana to, because their parents are actually not as wealthy as they look, and so these guys are driving down to Ensenada in Daddy's BMW to use that as a mule vehicle to bring drugs across the border. Like you do. Those kinds of stories. And so this lasted for three seasons, 2004 and 2007.

Season three ended on a pseudo cliffhanger about whether whether her dad was going to get reelected, was going to hold onto his job as Sheriff again, because he wound up getting the job as Sheriff, because the old Sheriff turned out, the Sheriff during the rest of the show run turned out to be incredibly corrupt and I think got murdered, but I'm trying to remember now. And so Keith Mars wound up becoming Sheriff again, and then at the end of season three, to protect Veronica, he destroyed evidence. Oh. And there was, and it was, and, and, and,

the chickens were coming home to roost, and it was clear, you know, that somebody else was running for Sheriff, who was like up to his neck and corruption, total sleaze bag, but looked like could win. I mean, yeah. So, and then, and then, yeah. And so, that's the cliffhanger it ends up.

Yeah. And so, the show, well, it kind of doesn't, it kind of doesn't, I'll get to it in a minute. The show was a brilliant, brilliant witty take on the word detective tropes. Uh-huh. Okay. the show was a brilliant, brilliant witty take on the word detective tropes. Uh huh. Okay. Instead of a femme fatale, we had bad boy Logan Eccles. Oh, what a great name. Oh, yeah.

And played by an amazing actor. Instead of a beleaguered police chief, we had a tired put upon vice principal who'd be immediately familiar to anybody who's taught in the public school system. There was also an incompetent bullying and corrupt sheriff, but vice principal Clemens more often fulfills the police chief trope and Veronica's adventures. At least in seasons one and two, the third season she went away to college. Okay, yeah, yeah. And you know, but the cast were universally amazing. Jason Doring, the actor who played Logan

Eccles and Kristen Bell put on a master class in romantic tension, Aula Newar. Okay. I mean, just absolutely amazing. Brilliant TV all over. And a fourth season, there was, there was a movie, which was kind of a, kind of a compartmentalized plot. Okay, yeah. And then in 2019, a fourth season consisted of eight episodes where Veronica came back to Neptune.

She'd been away. There was reference to her working for the FBI. Time had moved forward. So she's now, you know, this many years older, Logan shows up, Logan, as it turns out, I could go into a very long story of exactly what happened to Logan during the original series, long story short, his spoiler alert, skip ahead a minute if you haven't seen the series. Okay. His dad was actually the one who committed the murder that kicked the entire thing off. Okay. Okay. Big yeah. And and so he finds that out. His

mother commits suicide. He he goes through just a shit ball. Okay. Of a life for a couple of years. We find out that he got himself cleaned up, joined the military, became an intelligence officer and a mid grade badass. There are a couple of scenes where he's acting as a bodyguard for a Senate candidate and winds up just wrecking like half a dozen guys. Okay.

And he went from in the original series being, you know, he's a surfer dude, so he's kind of semi-athletic. Sure. To like in the fourth season, you look at him and like, how do I get your shoulders? Like, what do I do? Like, what is the workout you're doing

because the Holy crap? Okay, so anyway. What is the workout you're doing because the Holy Grape? Okay, so anyway. And so the fourth season brought a sense of closure to what had happened in the first three seasons, right up until the last five minutes of episode eight. Oh, see, I hate when they do this. I talked about this with Luke K.

Yeah, yeah, precisely. Right. The last bit. it's basically like Like the best pumpkin pie. Yeah exact right amount of ratio between like whip cream crust and The pie filling. Yeah, and you had just the right size bite as the last bite. Yeah, and then someone shits in your mouth While you're still I like I I yes,'s, yes, there's an analogy there. That's the worst. So, so, my best friend and his wife were huge, huge, huge,

huge, even bigger fans than I was, of Veronica Mars. And so the moment they found out Hulu was, was bringing back a fourth season, they were like there. Yeah. They watched the entire thing. And they, they, they saw it long before I did.

Now it came out at a time in 2019, when it came back out, it came out at a time where binging was normal. Yeah, binging a show was absolutely normal. So you don't have to, there's a different thing that happens narratively in a movie or in a TV series rather, where you can binge the shit out of it. You don't have to wait. And therefore, you don't have as much time to process and cogitate and stuff like that,

like you would have in 2004 through 2007. Yeah. And so I think that that's a really interesting change that happened because the same thing happened with Gilmore Girls in 2016. You know, they come back and it's a bingy show now. Yeah. Now it's also a bingy show for people who had just caught on to it in binging it all the way through on Netflix anyway. Yeah. So okay. So they binged most of the way through it. I think they they you know took for us tonight. Yeah, yeah, there's some like that or two episodes at a time.

I'll treat it like a mini series whatever. But when they when they got to the last episode, my buddy had been raving. Like the whole time he'd been watching. He'd been like, oh my god, it's amazing. Mm-hmm. You know, Veronica and Logan are just as great now as they were before. You know, like, you know, and seeing, you know, Colin Tony playing or dad again. I mean, it's just, it's amazing.

So it was, it was all, all this awesome, awesome, awesome, awesome. And then he watched the last episode and he was furious for that last five minutes. For that last five minutes. For that last five minutes. Again, because, because, because, if you shite my mouth, I'm gonna be angry. I'm like, I have this favorite bite. This was this, this was this, and now there's,

and now there's, and now there's, and now if you've skipped ahead to avoid one set of spoilers, and you wanna avoid another one, I'm gonna tell you to, you know, skip a minute or two ahead now. So, there's this convoluted long plot line over the course of the eight seasons.

They're trying to find a mad bomber who's terrorizing the town of Neptune. Mm-hmm. And they catch him and he's played by Pat and Oswald. Turns out, Pat and Oswald. Turns out, turns out Pat and Oswald, Pat and fucking Oswald, is the criminal mastermind terrorist genius, okay. That's kind of be a little hard just in, okay, there's some stunt casting going on there. Obviously Pat and Oswald.

A little bit. But also considering what his wife used to do for a living. Remind me. She wrote true crime novels. Oh yeah. And she is the reason why we don't have the Golden State Killer in Sacramento anymore. Yeah. Yeah.

And then she died very early in the year. And the character, yeah, and the character he plays is a, I don't want to say conspiracy theorist. Okay. is a, I don't want to say conspiracy theorist, but a true crime nut who does, who was doing that same kind of police work and went over with Dark Side and was crazy obsessed. Anyway, so he winds up threatening when he finally gets caught.

Veronica and her dad apprehend him and he makes a cryptic threat to Veronica that, you know, he's not done and he's gonna be victorious. He's gonna beat the Mars family. Okay. Okay. And, you know, you think, okay, well, you know, a raving nut job, you know, crazy bum or whatever. Sure. So Veronica and Logan get married at City Hall. Okay. That same afternoon. Sure. They get married at City Hall. Tell me a blow up.

Which ties City Hall doesn't blow up. Oh, no, no. They make it home. They're gonna leave on their fucking honeymoon. He goes out to the fucking car and the fucking car blows up oh wow I was joking no okay no spoilers over mother fucker no wow Rob Thomas the showrunner director leader is is let's see where where did I put this Rob Thomas is a horrible sadistic shitbag who hates his fans.

I like that you're like, where did you get this? No, no, no, no, no, no, I'm proud of this phrase. For this. Yeah. No, no. Say it again. No, Rob Thomas is a horrible sadistic shitbag who hates his fans. Now, to the audience that, you know, is at home not watching, because it's not a video thing, he literally pulled out a post-it note from his pocket. Unfolded it. Yeah, and the thing was, he'd forgotten what pocket

he had it in. Yeah. So, yeah, just love that you're walking around with that phrase, and it looks really well worn. Like, I say this on a regular basis. Yes, since watching the last fucking five minutes of season four. Uh-huh.

Um, and so, so Logan, as a character, showed some of the most dramatic growth. He had this amazing, like, oh my god, like he starts out just a complete shithee. Like, he is the character you love to hate in the first five or six episodes because he's literally the rich kid who organises, he's literally the rich kid

who organises bum fights. Oh wow. To record him and put him on the internet to make money from the ads. That was a thing. Okay, he's literally that guy in like episode three over the course of the series, he learns what a shitbag he was.

Stops being one. Turns into actually, no seriously, that guy, I like that guy, I'm rooting for that guy. And so he dies. And then you blow him up, patting fucking Oswald. The after you go to when when you're doing stunt casting like, you know, yeah, and and and let me let me make very clear.

I don't mean anything bad against Pat Oswald. He's a talented comedian, he's funny to watch, he's great. But like I felt like having him be the bad guy that then pulls this bullshit off was just that much more like, oh yeah, yeah, you like the show, huh? Yeah, you like Logan? Yeah, you happy that he and Veronica are together now? Fuck you. You know, like, dude. So. Yeah, you happy that he and Veronica are together now fuck you You know like so how should it have ended? It honest to God it should have ended with a happy ending Yeah, and I understand and I understand

where An unalloyed Happy ending is not a noir thing But an earned happy ending is and if anybody fucking earned a happy ending is not a noir thing. But an earned happy ending is, and if anybody fucking earned a happy ending, it was Veronica and Logan because both of them were fucking damaged. Both of them had so much traumatic shit happen to them. And, and Veronica, through the whole thing, she didn't, she didn't have the same character development arc, she simply remained true to who she was

through the entire thing. She remained the, no, no, no, look, if this winds up blowing up in my face and like totally bites me and he asks, I don't care, as long as the right thing gets done, I'm gonna be the person who does the fucking right thing. I like that it's a feminized version of the noir trope, too, because he's normally a broken, a drunkard, a homophobic guy who really doesn't learn anything, and then the next day,

he wakes up hungover, and everything starts again. So I like that she is a much more, I don't know, like, moral, you know, she doesn't just have her own personal moral code of I've been wronged and now I'm gonna get my justice, but like there's a morality to her. So I get, yeah, I could see. So what's the point of killing them off then? I mean, I don't, the thing is,

I put your posted away already. Okay, yeah, well, yeah, number one, you know, Rob Thomas is a horrible cystic shitbag of Hates's fans. Okay, now post it away. I already. Yeah, well, yeah, number one, you know, Rob Thomas is a horrible, cystic shitbag of Hades's fans. Okay, now put it away. But okay, I had to get it out one more time. But I think in his head, still weird that the post is. I think he felt.

Number one, in your pocket, number two, it's a pink post it. That's the weirdest part. Well, the one I have in this shirt is a pink post it. The one's the one, some of them are yellow, some of my green, like, yeah. I just, you know, who needs a more green? Who needs, yeah, no, no, no, this is my monogram forever from this point forward. Okay.

You know, but I think, you know, on a more serious sort of note, I think the writers, Rob Thomas in particular, were convinced that, well, you know, if we tie it all up with a happy ending, number one, you know, the show has never been won about happy endings. The show was never won where anybody got away without, you know, metaphorically or even literally, you know, losing an eye or something like, you know, you get to move on with your life, but you're gonna be marked forever. And I think giving the two of them

and earned happy ending, the explanation Rob Thomas gave in interviews was, well, you know, we can't do that because it's noir and that's like a cop out. This isn't a fairy tale, to which my retort again is, they fucking earned it. Like they are damaged people. Like they, you know.

And you know, noir is very much, it goes against type in terms of its culture that it's in. Yeah. So it's in. Yeah. Right? I mean, personally, I can't stand the war. But it's why I never like blade runner. But like I fell asleep during it twice. So.

I can understand having a visceral reaction to it, but falling asleep is a new one on me. I'm the worst. Okay. Okay, so the thing is I did like the Maltese Falcon, okay, but you know, and then I'm like, okay, well, I'm done. I get it. Yeah, um, but, but noir is acting against types. So I wonder if the fact that in 2019, we really needed hope. Yeah, and so, Yeah, yeah, yeah. So, okay. Okay. Okay.

Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay.

Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay.

Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. Okay. And I think there may have been the idea that you know what we might, if this does well enough, who we might want to pick it up and we might get to do more of this. And if we have Veronica and Logan being happy, we just don't know what to do with that. And so killing him off was a, well, you know, now, you know, she's got, she's got the, you know, scars to, you know, drive her forward in her lone quest for vengeance, you know,

whatever bullshit very, very serious, very serious, and very serious. And yeah, very serious, and to me, it's a cop out. Yeah. In the same way that Castle, another show is a huge fan of for like its entire run, once Castle and Beckett got together, it was like the writers didn't know what the fuck to do. Like Moonlighting.

Well, they won't take it. When you go with, okay, well, you know, like- Well, they won't they? They won't they? Yeah. When you go with, okay, well, you know what, they will. Right. Like rabbits is a matter of fact. Right. You know, like- See, that's the problem.

We don't build an entire show around a single tension point though. Well, one, one you build around a single tension point, but as somebody who is happily married, as somebody who has previously been unhappily married, I can tell you that even in a relationship that is healthy, even in a relationship that is overwhelmingly positive, there are still stories you can tell. True. It just means you have to shift your point of focus

from are they going to admit they love each other to okay, how are the two of them going to react when this thing happens? And okay, what are the fault lines gonna be now between their personalities? You know, like, you know. I was given TV history. The second you put a couple together, it does kill the series.

And I think that might be an American thing. Also, we don't know how to end things. No, we don't. This is true. We don't know how to, we just let them live on three years past where they should have. That's what we call us. Or along us, if you're supernatural.

Yes. And that's what we consider.. Or longer if you're supernatural. Yes. And that's what we consider. Yes, I'm still on about that, guys. I'm not going to stop being. I'm sorry. I'm not. Sorry. Anyway, so anyway, that's Veronica Mars.

Of my contributions to this idea that's clearly, as you could all tell, the one I most fired up about. Now, how about you? What's your next one for me? Lost. All right. Yeah. There's been like legitimate ink spilled on this one. Okay. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Absolutely. All right. So, Lost came out actually right around the same time.

Yeah, I find that fascinating. The cast of Veronica Mars were all huge lost fans. How weird. All they were filming, it was just as if it was a thing in an interview. But yeah, it's anyway. Okay, so I loved Lost, I did. Okay.

And I actually want to start watching it for the third time. If you look in that bookshelf right there, next to Mash is Heroes and Next to Heroes. And Next to Heroes is Lost. Yeah, so I still have the DVDs for it. It came out when I was a new teacher. I was engaged to my fiance at the time and I was planning our wedding.

And this was a wonderful time in my life. Okay, I was madly in love. I was energized by my work. I was working out a ton. And unfortunately, the first several episodes started with an airplane falling apart over the Pacific Ocean and I was watching it on repeat for the whole first season that summer leading up to my wedding, which is not a big deal until you realize that for a honeymoon we were going to Tahiti for a honeymoon. So yeah, I was so compelled by such good TV. Yeah, but I was also scaring the shit out of myself every Wednesday night. Uh, the first season was

Oh, yeah, because because you kept going back like it was he kept it wasn't just okay episode one and the airplane crashes and here all the drivers it was okay episode two now We see what this character did exactly when when engine number two Frego Exactly, you know Yeah, so oh god such good TV that I still felt compelled to watch it and and and it was so good that I mean It's honestly still some of the best TV I've ever seen. The second season was pretty damn good too. And then the studios refused to pay the writers the royalties for the DVD market and that led to a writer's strike that meant that the third, fourth, and fifth seasons were marred by the fact of this studio greed.

And so the writing suffered a great deal deal and then they tried to make up for that by just overconvoluting the plot. It's very similar to the mankind undertaker match that everybody remembers. Good God, he's broken him in half and he throws him off the cage and all that. It's not a good match. It's a spectacular match, which is a different thing. Which tricks you into thinking you watched a good match. And that was literally what Mick fully said he wanted to do.

Because he was broken down. Yeah. And Undertaker had a broken ankle. So neither of them could work really well. And so Mick was just like, we've got to do something to trick him into thinking they saw a good match tonight. And that's why he went flying 16 feet plus his height, so 22 feet from head to the ground. Yeah.

So lost basically did the same thing. So instead of nuking the fridge or was the old phrase jumping the shark,'d say a throwing man kind off a cage. Okay, so and the thing is the plot was already insanely convoluted There were so many things that they needed to pay off anyway That there's so many strands that if you pulled on them you needed to explain them better and the writers Did a great job. And then they started to lose grips. They literally lost the plot. Yes. See literally season three, season three told us in its finale that they would get off the island at some point. Yes. We have to go back. I remember that was a huge pop culture

moment. Yes. Like the whole zit guys was. And there's your will they huge pop culture moment. Yes. Like, the whole zitgeist was, and there's your will they won't, they won't, they won't, real, will they get off the island or not. Still comes back to the same thing, because we're simple. So that becomes the focal point from then on, because then you're like, when's it gonna happen? How's it gonna happen?

When's it gonna happen? When's it gonna happen? I think that that honestly could have been left out. Having flashbacks is one thing, explain how the character is dealing with the current problem, and I love that that honestly could have been left out. Having flashbacks is one thing. Explain how the character is dealing with the current problem, how I love that. But flash forwards are way more hamstringing. Because now you've, yeah, unless you are really willing

to get crazy convoluted. And they did. OK. So season four, at which point you actually need to have like a truly, you need to have a plan ahead of time. Yes. In order to make anything less of a joke. Yeah. Because as we've seen, because there has been some amazing science fiction written about time travel that does those kinds of things. Yeah. But, but you, you need to have a map of how you're going to get there. You can't be writing it the way a series usually gets written in this kind of circumstance,

which is okay. Well, you know, we're at this point, which means you have to write it with an end point in mind, which is antithetical to American TV. So season four continues the problem. And there's only really six people who are gonna go back to the world called the Oceanic Six. And again you hamstring the writers because now we know that only six of them are gonna make it off. Yeah. So we're looking for everyone else to die. However some really interesting characters do show up, show, Charlotte and Miles, okay? And they're all fascinating in their own way.

I like those characters, but now we're starting to do a Gilligan's Island thing, where we keep adding new people to an island that they can't get off the island, but you can add new people on. And the problem is that they keep over complicating and over-swerving. We've talked about this in wrestling before before and it felt a little bit like survivor Which is fair because guess what was out around the same time? There were shifting alliances and double crosses all over the place too, you know, and and to the point where Every character is gray and when your characters start with a moral center unless you see a slow decay

But instead you just saw this like weird revolving door like they got caught on a Marigold round yeah, and then they jumped off so popra. Yes. Oh my god. She's been possessed. Yeah. She's the devil now. Now the first season There'll be a few people who will know exactly what I'm talking about with that verb. But anyway first season was tidy It was clever. Yeah, it was very well wrought. it was excellently placed and ultimately it was very simple. And it was brilliant surrealism. Yes. Yeah. By the time we get to season four it's like the damn painting inside of the Pearl.

Yeah. Season five had a complete split in timelines which that's just lazy. And so now the island is in the 1970s and it's cool but by this point the driving interesting parties of the show are in the 1970s and it's cool, but by this point, the driving interesting parties of the show are pretty much just twisted and convoluted parts to the point of it being an exercise and not anything particularly compelling unless you're a completionist, which I am.

And this is where they really sealed the deal as to where I think they should have and could have gone. So in season four, Ben, Benjamin Linus, a phenomenally interesting character, turns a subterranean wheel and gets transported to North Africa. The same basic place that Charlotte, the red head, she finds a polar bear skeleton with a Dharma initiative logo on it in season five.

And this should have been the focus for the whole thing. Okay. And here's why because I had a globe. The island is somewhere in the South Pacific and they even tell you about a thousand miles off course, Fiji, blah, blah, blah. So yeah, yeah, yeah, if you took a globe, you'd take a needle and you run it straight through from Carthage on the one end, straight through the other end so that it's the diameter you end up in the South Pacific. Okay, this should have been central to the plot. You clearly found a wormhole that dumps you out in Tunisia. This connection and the wheel that moved the island and transported people to Tunisia

That should have been central. Don't have everyone die and end up in a weird purgatory and Don't have everyone time travel and frankly don't have There shouldn't have been such this convoluted storyline and Especially for the others, you know, they're talking about the others. It didn't need to be that way. The Dharman Initiative should have still been a part of the islands past, and all of these sets

and such, cool, but don't pay off the mysteries. Make this, these people, you know, it's kind of like the difference in D&D is it character driven or is it plot driven? Is it plot driven to the location or plot driven through your characters? Make this the location that these interesting characters landed on and take them further. So don't pay off the mysteries. Center it instead on the fact that teleportation happens. You could then connect it to the numbers. Number four, eight, 12, 13, or 14, 16, 23, 32,

connect it to the numbers. Have that be the combination somehow for the wheel and keep it pseudo-scientific. You don't need Jacob or anything like that. Have it be electromagnetic? Use the black smoke monster and have that be the backdrop to the islands and happenants. They're still flashing back. They're still very damaged people trying to find their way in the world. magnetic, use the black smoke monster and have that be the backdrop to the islands and inhabitants.

They're still flashing back, they're still very damaged people trying to find their way in the world, they're lost, if you will. And season five can end with them finding the goddamn wheel for real, and season six can be about their effort to get home, and they end up in Tunisia. And some shadowy organization wants to protect this information. So now they all have to survive together to fight that off in a different location and still have their flashbacks

and you can still have a few shifting loyalties and they can finally get home. And you can lose whoever you want to on the way. If you still need to whittle it down to six, okay fine. And here's the thing. I actually really liked the ending of lost. I'm like the only one Emotionally, I loved it. Okay. I didn't like the lack of thinking that went into it though. And so they gave me what I wanted emotionally people You know to be back together tearful reunions tearful goodbyes

acceptance Mm-hmm, you know, but they didn't give it to me after a very satisfying journey. Okay. They didn't earn it for what you said. Yes. Yes. The final season about trying to get home, having used up some fantastic tech that made

them all targets of the Dharma Initiative or some similar group. How he airs to the Dharma Initiative. Yes. Even in prison them from each other again and have them fight to get back together. Use Jack's term, live together, die alone. As a rallying cry, was to when they need to save the others

who are as good as dead. Do all that and you don't have to flash forward. You don't have to flash sideways and you don't have to flash forward. You don't have to flash sideways and you don't have to corrupt Michael. Okay. So that's, I think, I think they missed, I mean, literally missed the boat, but they missed a huge opportunity there

by not just centering it on that wheel again, because and metaphors can expound from this. The whole plot was spinning out of control. Yeah, well, center of a wheel. Darm-a-wheel. The Dharma wheel. And the wheel of life. All the shit.

Getting to the core, to the navel of who you are. All these things, right? And even like, oh, it teleported the island. I'm cool with that, right? And then so they're in Tunisia trying to find, and then they find a wheel again and they teleport but this time It's a different spot because it's not like Tunisia only has one diameter spot, right? Yeah So or they get to another place and

So much that they could have done that they didn't do and instead they went with you know some fairly lazy Let's just keep spinning it and hope that we can stay ahead of the audience. Spitting it. Like a wheel. As you want. Yeah. So anyway, that's my thought of lost. Okay. Yeah. So you have another TV show.

I do. You do. I do. And I got a lot of people excited a few minutes ago and then disappointed them very greatly. So it's Firefly. Now this is an almost textbook example of a show that had a really great idea, had a really great cast, had some just absolutely scintillating writing. I mean so many things about this show were amazing. It could have been so much and it got screwed over by the network that was putting it on.

It was on Fox in 2002. And the thing is, TV executives are generally speaking, as we've mentioned before, they are lowest common denominator type thinkers. Right. They're trying to get as many of the quadrants as they can instead of just focusing on a group before. Yeah. Yeah. Or at least in the early 2000s, now with streaming services

and as we've also talked about the fragmentation of the viewing population and everything, they, they, they, it is about niche. It is starting, yeah, it is more and more about niche, but in 2002, it was, no, no, no, we wanna get as many eyeballs on the screen as we can and so they were risk averse Yep, yeah, and Firefly was an idea

that doesn't immediately sell Like like it it was clearly a really hard pitch like to begin with right and Because it's a space western. Right. And to a TV executive, they're like, whoa, whoa, hold up. Western, I get.

Sci-fi show, I get. Sci-fi Western, you're kind of blowing my mind here. What exactly do you fucking mean? Right. And like it is, it is, it's own aesthetic. Mm-hmm. It was, it like just, just a very idea of, no, no. I'm going to tell science fiction stories,

using the tropes of the Western genre, because they all fucking apply. Yeah, you know. And they're easy to write. And they're easy to write. Yes. And they're apply. Yeah. You know, and they're easy to write. And they're easy to write. Yes. And they're familiar. Yeah.

We all, like in the United States, that is a big part of our common cultural mythos. Yeah. And so there's, as much as I will take every opportunity I can, nowadays, to rag on Joss Whedon. I think for meaningful reasons, I have to give him credit for his creativity. I have to give him credit for his ability as a writer. He's just kind of a crappy human being. Yes.

But you know, so this was this amazing groundbreaking kind of idea. And there was so much that he very clearly wanted to do with it and so much he wanted to say with it. In a very, look at me, I'm a progressive CIS hat white guy in 2002 kind of way. Which for 2002, maybe he won. Hey, you know, well, I'm not, I'm saying in 2002 that that's what it looked like, you know and so you know we had no kidding honest to God meaningfully strong female characters who were not Consistently caught in the damsel and distress position right wash frequently wound up being the damsel and distress Simon Tam wound up being the damsel and distress

Far more often than his sister River did yep, you know and and you know the other female characters all were able to hold their own yes and The and of course we've talked about this show on And the, and of course we've talked about this show on our podcast previously and 55 and 56. There you go. I think so. So half a series ago now. But you know, and you know, I've brought up that this is also sadly very clearly

Colored at the very least colored very heavily by our national problem of Apology for the Confederacy and for the idea of you know post-confederate outlaws and and all of that the tragic the world. Yes, yes. You know, and that is something we need to be aware of when we're thinking about this show. Yeah. But it doesn't take anything away from the fact that this show was genuinely remarkably good television. And Nathan Phion was amazing. Nathan Filion is a, I don't think he gets enough credit

for being a really good actor because he is so effortlessly charming. But he's a like, well, you know, he's, he's, you know, the happy smiley guy who, you know, he's charming. That's his thing. He's charming. But there are moments in this show where Malcolm Reynolds is not charming. Oh, he's charming. That's right. He's charming. But there are moments in this

show where Malcolm Reynolds is not charming. Oh, he's the right shit. Well, one, he's the right shit. And on a couple of other occasions, he's fucking terrifying. Yeah. You know, there are, there are moments where we see a more, a more complicated character there. Yeah. Wow. That I would have loved to have explored over the series of four seasons. Actually, give it five. I love when seasons get to five because then they get syndication rights.

There you go. Five, six seasons in a movie as was on community. Oh, OK. Abed's line, six seasons in then movie, 60s and then movie. So, and they got a movie, because they've, of course, didn't get six seasons. They got 14 episodes.

Right. Because Fox was like, okay, this is really expensive to make, because you've built these incredible sets. Like, you know, and you've got this costuming budget that's, you know, flip and ridiculous. You're always filming on location doing this stuff. And like, we're throwing money at this thing and we can't find an audience to which I would want to answer, how about if you leave it on a given night of the week. Yeah, over the course of 14, over the course of 14 episodes,

the night that it showed up on Fox changed, I wanna say three times. There's only seven days in a week. Yes, I know. Which just makes it that much fucking worse. Yeah. Makes it hard to find. Yeah.

And then you're interfering with things that nerds might also find. Yeah. Because then you're interfering with things that nerds might also like. Yeah. Yeah. And so the story itself, only we were just getting to a place where the season one part of the myth arc was really starting to open up. Yes.

We were really starting to get an understanding of, oh, okay, it's not just that like she went into this, you know, River, River wasn't just in this school where she was kind of being held prisoner and maybe she was being brainwashed, we don't know. No, no, no, we find out. They literally cut her brain up. Yes.

Like, oh shit. And who are these dudes with the blue gloves? Right. Right. And the sonic kill you weapons. Like, what is this, man? There were these wonderful fucking sci-fi ideas that were coming out that could have turned into something absolutely amazing. And then the executives at Fox said, well, you know, you're just, you're

not bringing in the ad revenue. So we're dropping it. We're done. And, and the, the people who had found the show, a, a dear, dear friend of mine, Dory, who I know also listens to us because she's given me tips about how I deliver in front of the mic. Was a rabid fan. She was a there at the beginning brown coat and I became a fan of the show later after it was out on DVD. But I felt cheated when I got to the end of the last disc in the set and was like and yeah I was that because I watched it streaming like okay and so I

got to episode 14 I was like all right and what do you mean there's no season two. Yeah what the shit is this? How the yeah yeah and and there's just so much So much potential. Yeah, yeah, and so What all I can say because I really would have loved to have seen where the show went where All of these ideas got developed and whether the mythos that like in the movie, in Serenity, the film, the mythos that got developed about what it was that was done to River and apparently to other kids who didn't make it through the process, and where the Revers came from, and all of that, like that was a whole lot to take in.

Well, that was season two, squeezed into two hours. Yeah, yeah. That was, that was an awful lot to take in in an hour and a half, two hours. If we could have gotten all of that over the course of another 14 episodes, another 15 episodes. It would have been way better. It would have been so much better. Yep. Um, you might not have had to kill off Wasch or Shepard book.

Yeah. Shepard book actually makes me mad. Like, you know what? Wasch, killing them off is fine. Over 14. Over the course of the season. Yeah. Maybe, yeah.

But, you know, the number of characters we lost in, in, frankly, a traumatic bloodletting. Yeah. Like ritualized murder of characters that we had grown to really care about and love. Oh, you know what? Just we didn't rob Thomas, probably get together for drinks.

There. Like it just occurred to me, like, oh, hey, let's go have a beer and talk about which of our characters we're gonna kill to tell our fans to fuck off. Anyway, so, you know, I would have, I can't really say how I wanted to see it end, but I would have loved to see it get to a point where it could have had a real ending. I was gonna say you'd love to have seen it end.

Yeah. Like, it didn't end, and therein lies the problem. Like, it clearly was written with, we've got more in the tank to go as a concept and it didn't get to do it. And I would have loved to see them figure out a way to bring back Jubal early in another episode. Objects in space, the bounty hunter who shows up on the ship

and people don't have an appreciation for objects in space, the bounty hunter who shows up on the ship and people don't have an appreciation. Okay. For objects in space. That's right. That performance was amazing. Yeah. You know, I mean, there were so many bits about it that were just like, you know, you know, you know, you know, a saff bridge.

Mm-hmm. Like, just so many characters. It's like one of Joss Whedon's gifts is he comes up with these amazing characters. That's true. Yeah, and this just all got just dropped. Yeah. So that's my last one in the tank for that. Okay, well, before we get to talking about other stuff, which I don't want to give away yet.

But anyway, what's your next one? I think honestly, my next one is let's go to the movies. Let's go to our beloved Star Wars. All right. And I say let's go in Crono and publication order for once. Okay. At once. So I'm going to say, Wow.

I know. This is the only time that that's going to happen. I'm going to say let's go with episode three. Okay, I do the Seth Okay should have ended differently. Oh Now the thing is yeah, it's gonna it's gonna end with him turning into Vader. Yes, no problem there. Oh, yeah I'm even okay with him screaming. No You need to earn it a little on the nose. You need to earn it. Okay. Yes earn it. You need to earn it. You need to earn it. Okay, yes, again, earned. Yes. Yeah, all right.

So here's my idea. Okay. And it's not mine. I found it somewhere else. Okay. And loved it. But this is your head cannon. Yeah.

Okay. It's a buddy cop movie. Okay. Obi-Wan and Anakin are buddy cops. Yeah. Cause it kind of already are. Yeah. And dynamic is similar.

Obi-Wan and Podmay both think that Anakin is dead. They send Anakin off on a thing. Obi-Wan's with Podmay. Obi-Wan tells her, I think Anakin's dead. I know your dear friends with him. And she confesses that she's actually pregnant with Anakin's child. But she's still not yet showing. So this is before the five-month mark that we went into.

Okay. In their grief, as Obi-Wan tells her what happens, they comfort each other and then they fuck. Okay. Yeah. Okay. Now it's a single night's weakness. Yeah. Okay. A sandwich that I would love to be. I don't care if I'm all live on the side. Like, oh my God. All right, well, you know, as I will say, I am a huge you and McGregor fan and I'm even I'm a little bit. Yes, you know, yeah. All right, and it is a single night's weakness.

And it is a single night's weakness. And it is a single night's weakness. But all, yes. All right, all right. Anakin turns out alive and everyone's overjoyed. But it naws away at Obi-Wan and Padme. And then she starts to show. And then she tells Anakin the truth that the child is in fact his.

We fucked before he left. It's been like four months. And now you're back. And now she's showing, right? And Obi-Wan's shame at his failure as a night and as Anakin's friend is unbearable because his failures a night is twofold. One, I done fucked, which apparently that's the thing's the thing Jedi don't do. It's weird. All right. Well, if if if we accept that as an established part of the

canon that seems to be the girl is giving them the don't fuck rule. All right. Okay. Um, I am the only pickled. But also he's attached to his friend too much and he's realizing this, right? So he tells and he thinks that the child that she's carrying is actually his. Okay. Okay. Which means,

oh no, she's already told her that she's pregnant. Okay, but still, maybe she doesn't tell him. Okay, I'm kinda bouncing back and forth, but he thinks the child's his, and so, and she's showing, and so he tells Anakin everything. And Anakin blames Padme and Obi-Wan both, and not knowing where to turn, he goes to the

one person who's always offered him solid guidance, a father figure that he's never had. Palpatine. Because he figures all the Jedi are still going to kick him out because he got married anyway. Okay. And he's not going to rat out his best friend, but he's got all these conflicting feelings, right? Palpatine still radicalizes him and speaks of the nature of revenge in terms that Anakin can understand his mom's death. It's natural to want revenge. You want a revenge on the sand people

for killing your mom. Anakin and Obi-Wan are tasked with the death of Grievous together. They have to go hunt down Grievous together as the Jedi Council go hunt down Grievous together. As the Jedi Council continues to be clueless. And it's a super tense fight over there because Anakin is trying to focus on the mission and Obi-Wan is trying to focus on keeping his best friend alive. Because now he realizes the thing. Maybe he's just like a half a step ahead of Anakin and realizing it's not my kid. It's Anakin's and oh my god. What have I done? After Grievous gets killed, Anakin and Obi-Wan fight, but not with lightsabers. It's just a good old fashioned ass whoop and fight. Okay.

Fist of cuffs. Fist of cuffs. And Anakin touches the dark side and kicks the living shit out of Obi-Wan. Can Obi. Okay. Anakin comes back, tells Palpatine what's up and then tells him that the Jedi will never accept him now Because I've done struck out an anger and beat the shit out of my best friend

I'm not supposed to have a best friend because they're my best friend my wife I'm not supposed to have a wife. I'm not supposed to have knocked someone up Yeah And now pod may is never gonna accept him because he's become the monster that she petted his head when it was a village of people But now it's a guy that she fucked and he's not sure what kind of feelings that she has. Okay. And so Palpatine says, well, you're right, the Jedi will never accept you,

and Padme won't accept you, and he's just validating all this shit, and he's glad that Anakin trust him. And at this point, his plot has been laid bare by the Jedi Council because Blind Scroll made Acorn. Yeah. Palpatine plays with Anakin Defense him, This point, his plot has been laid bare by the Jedi Council because Blind Scroll made acorn. Palpatine plays weak Anakin defends him and the two of them whoop ass, Palpatine convinces Anakin that the time is of the essence and they must strike now or the Jedi will destroy

both of them. And having nobody but Palpatine, Anakin goes and slaughters more with all the clones. Order 66 still happens Obi-Wan comes back having gotten the shit kicked out of him. He's got a convalescent somewhere Maybe some you know polis mosa some you know, yeah, so now he knows there's some healers who as long as you don't lose the will live You're fine Um, and so Obi-Wan comes back. You still have the same basic ending of the movie adds so much to the you were my brother Anakin if he also says, and I'm sorry. Because now he has made, they still go through that big fight.

Yeah. And Obi-Wan whoops his ass, cuts off his legs, and his arm and his friend is dying. And he's sorry because he caused that fall literally and figuratively have pod made then tell Obi-Wan at the end that yes, actually it was Anakin's kid. So you know, maybe she didn't tell him and that he needs to keep Anakin's kids safe. And so he is redeeming himself by doing that. And that's the end of it. It is not focused on the fall of Anakin Skywalker. It is focused on the slip and fall and redemption. Oh, Obi-Wan Kenobi. Okay. That's how it should have gone. All right. That's how it should have ended.

As an Obi-Wan fanboy, I kind of like that. All right. I'm actually going to go farther back. Okay. Cool. Isn't that? Because I think I think the problems with episode three, uh, really, really germinate a very heavily back in episode two. Okay. And even back in episode one. The entire trilogy, because you just said it should be, it shouldn't be the fall of Anakin Skywalker, it should be the slip and fall and redemption of Obi-Wan Kenobi. The first film, like if you look at who are the characters in episode one. Oh, right.

In the way, imperfect redemption. Because. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. Just want to make sure. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So the real characters in the first film? Real characters in the first film, remember that, of course, Lucas started this whole thing by reading the hero with the thousand faces.

Right. And so the archetypes that we have in the first movie are the old wizard, or I'm sorry, the episode one. Yes, yes, yes. Okay, just to make sure everybody understands when I say the first movie, I mean, first chronological movie, episode one, we have the elder Wizard Mentor figure.

We have the young, coxure, knight character. We have the princess, they've got to rescue. And we got this kid who kind of gets dragged along out of nowhere. Now you could certainly argue, okay, there's, you know, a call to adventure for Anakin and this, that, the other thing, but in the first few minutes of the movie, Anakin's not there. Very true. We don't see him until 15 minutes in, at least, I don't even,

you know, in episode four, you don't see Luke Skywalker until 22 minutes in, at least, I don't even, you know. In episode four, you don't see Luke Skywalker until 22 minutes in. That's a good point. Which itself was a very interesting decision that he made and he 100% was tonally repeating. So, but yeah, your point still stands. Yeah, it's fine, narrowly, there you go. And so, and then the arc that we see

over the course of the first movie, Anakin doesn't change. Anakin doesn't have an arc in the first movie. No, he doesn't. Obi-Wan Kenobi goes from being a padawan to being a knight. Yep, that's true. He has this, this has the hero's journey. He has the hero's journey. Yeah, you're right. He He has the hero's journey. He legitimately has a hero's journey.

Because his mentor has the call to adventure, has to have the realizations that the princess isn't really the princess, that's her body double. I mean, all of the kinds of events that wind up happening there happen to him and they don't happen in the same way to Anakin in that film. So the first movie, the focus should be on Obi-Wan's,

here was Journey Becoming a Night. Yeah, yeah. Making that transition. Then the second movie, instead of giving us a 10-year time skip, 12-year-old-year-old long it was, time skip, no, no, pick up that next movie one year later, two years later. Cast a younger Anakin, and actually watch Anakin going through his training before he becomes a padawan, before he gets assigned to Obi-Wan Kenobi as a student, and him watching Obi-Wan having his career as a knight, and now we start focusing on Anakin looking up to Obi-Wan

as the big brother he never had. Oh, I like that. Establish that relationship. Okay, yeah. And then toward the middle of that film, Obi-Wan becomes, you know, gets his master rank, make it, make it a thing that Obi-Wan is a master at a very young age. Mm-hmm. And he immediately comes back and the very first thing he does is says, you, Anakin.

I got you. My brother, come with me. And maybe have a window and the other members to council be like, we don't know if this is a good idea. Right, because you're putting one of the youngest masters. We're putting a really young master with somebody who is a really old student and we already know he ain't entirely stable. And he's incredibly powerful.

And on top of all of that, because we're still sticking with the no, no, no, Buddhism means no attachments, never mind. Everything about compassion and universal love and whatever, no, no attachment. The whole YouTube are way tight. And we don't know if this is really appropriate, but maybe actually have Yoda say, a bad idea is this, you know, choose get out, yeah, choosing, choosing,

choosing him as your padawan, you cannot do, you know, too much of your old master, too much of your old master, yeah, you did it out of it, whatever. And then, and then, yeah, have the rest of the council be like, no, no, this is crazy enough, it might just work. Because, you know, this for times, this for times, this is crazy enough, it might just work. Because, you know. Desperate times, desperate times.

Desperate times, desperate times, desperate times, and it is, no, no. We need the youngest master we've seen in 50 years, teamed up with the most powerful padawan we've seen, because your job is to figure out what's going on with this whole Camino thing. And then, like, okay, clone army and separatists are, you know, blowing up.

And then between episode two and episode three, then they have the time skip. Okay, okay, yeah. And instead of a buddy cop movie, make it a war movie. buddy cop movie make it a war movie. Like legitimately a a war film in the way that all of the Starfighter scenes are taken out of you know the flying tigers right or war two you know fighter Jack movies make it no kidding this is the thin red line you know in the Star Wars universe.

And show the way the two of them, have the whole thing with, he keeps going back to Palpatine because he is morally conflicted about the things that he's seeing, he's having theed about the things that he's seeing, he's having order being done, because it's a clone army, which means they're living beings,

which means they're connected to the force. He's the most powerful, most sensitive force user there is. Oh, so he's feeling all their deaths. So, yeah. And the, but the expectation of the republic, right, is that they're wet, is that they're, yeah.

Yeah. And he and the rift between him and Obi-Wan comes from Obi-Wan being the good soldier, institutional guy, honor, defend the Republic, we gotta do what we gotta do. And I mean, not being, let's find a way to make him maybe less of a dick, but, and have him be like, no, I get it, but, and it's not, there's a greater evil.

It's not the ends just by the means, but like, and really actually, yeah, and really make it clear that the separatists are evil. Like, show the separpersists doing bad shit That was one of the things that just bugged me Mm-hmm in in the prequel trilogy was okay. They don't want to be part of the Republic anymore That's it. Why is this a bad thing? Well, and why you showed the incompetency of the Republic and yeah The bureaucracy of it is being ineffective and essentially the only reason that it seemed bad was

because the people that were leading it were rich people. Yeah. And I'm down for that. That's fine. But push that button harder, please. Yeah. Yeah. But yeah, because otherwise you're absolutely right. And it starts episode three with there are heroes on both sides. Like, yeah, fuck man.

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Maybe, yeah, turn general grievous either, go one of two ways with grievous. One of two ways with grievous is either, no, no, he's a demon. Right. Like, not just semi-droid monster alien guy,

but he's a proto-darth Vader. He's a proto-darth Vader. He's a proto-darth Vader and we see him ordering the massacre of Innocent civilians have him slaughter a Jedi or have him torture a Jedi Or yeah, you know something. I mean we had Vader torturing his own daughter Yeah, we didn't know it at the time, but then she told his boyfriend her boyfriend later. Yeah, you know, so there you go But yeah, okay, yeah cool. I like so you. But yeah, okay, cool. I like it. So, you know, and then, so he's morally conflicted.

Yeah, yeah. Anakin is deeply morally conflicted because every Jedi is having to have this crisis of conscience, maybe show the Jedi order kind of fracturing. Yes. Show, show, hiring members of the Jedi Council being like, okay, hold up. I get greater evil, but there's got to be a different way that we can, that we can approach this. Instead of, you know, treating living beings like droids, you know, disposable, they're not disposable. We can't treat them like they're disposable. Right. And well, yeah,

but look at the evil it's being done. It's a show, show a moment of that debate within the Jedi Council. Yeah, that would be great. Maybe bring up the point of, okay, wait, are we an independent organization, or are we an arm of the Republic's military? Yeah.

Like what, you know, have there be, like have the Jedi Council, actually this is even better. And it's just a criminal. Have the Jedi Council, actually this is even better. It's just a criminal. Have the Jedi Council completely fail and not on a moral level, but like we can't reach consensus on anything. I'd love that. I would love that.

Because, yeah, there's not a model of the group. Yeah, because it's a morally complex situation. And for the first time in a thousand years or 800 years, because Yoda isn't quite that old. But for the first time in a thousand years or 800 years because Yoda isn't quite that old. But you know, for the first time in centuries, the council is not effective. The council cannot reach a quorum. I think that'd be great because, oh Jesus, just have them not reach a quorum and decide, you know, and have Avignon right there. Yeah, you know, but...

Or not even Avignon have it it just be this is something the council has the council individual masters on the council are telling individual Jedi stay stay on the light side. Mm-hmm, but you have to follow what your conscience tells you to do. Oh yeah yeah. So it deconifies the Jedi. Yeah, that'd be great. And, you know, and have Yoda as the, you know, rigid, I'm trying to hold it all together. The guy that he is, yeah. Being one, trying to hold everybody together and trying to, you know, and have him make a statement about

if we let, you know, in circumstances like this, if we let individuals, you know, just follow their conscience without guidance, we are handing them to the dark side. Well, and he could even point out that's what happened to Duku. Yeah. You know, right? Precisely. Yeah. Okay. And and so have have that going on in the middle of all that turbulence. You know, we will give you the rank of master, but we do not give you a seat on the council. Yeah. Uh, just leave that out entirely. Anakin just, it's, you know what?

Um, Anakin has a seat on the council. Anakin is incredibly powerful and he has shown himself to be a capable leader. And he makes good tactical decisions. So he's on the council. Council falls apart. Right. And now he goes. And now he still goes to Palpatine.

I like it. Yeah. And Palpatine says similar things to him that he did in episode three to begin with. Mm-hmm. And it doesn't wind up having to be a personal conflict between him and Obi-Wan. So you went the opposite direction? I went, I'm going, I'm going the opposite direction. I want it to be, he gets turned into a neo-Nazi because he's listening to the wrong person. Sure. Because that's, that's, we know. Yeah, he's an apt pupil. He's an apt pupil. Yeah, very good. Thank you. That's because we know that's how it fucking happens. Yeah, yeah, yeah, absolutely. You know, when you are getting bad information from trusted sources, like we have, I don't know what percentage of the population

now who are convinced that Hollywood people and democratic politicians are drinking the blood of terrified children for a adrenal chrome. Right. And these are not, and the thing is, these are not stupid people. No.

They're not, they're, you know, they have been led down a cognitive path that has led them to what they themselves would have said, well, that's just lunacy. Right, right. Have many years ago. Okay. And and have have Palpatine do the same thing with him. I like it.

And then to have the two of them have still have the final fight, still have still have the final fight, still have the anger on the part of Anakin because you made me a monster. You and the order made me, I am look at me. And the orange eyes, instead of I hate you, it's look what you've done to me as he's trying to. Yeah. yeah, that's good. And there you go. And you can still have leaves the plot line. I mean, make some modifications to the plot line

with the cod man. You still have the same basic thing though, yeah. But you wind up, you wind up where you need to be. Right. And it doesn't wind up making Obi-Wan or the Jedi Order look like such a massive pack of assholes. So, there you go. I like it. Alright, so let's go from episode three, tips of nine.

Okay. Alright, first off, I'm changing the goddamn title. Ah, okay. Okay. Alright. The title is now a promise fulfilled. Okay, okay. Okay. All right. The title is now a promise fulfilled. Okay. Okay.

Okay. Because Luke made a promise in episodes five. Okay. Yeah. We'll come back. I promise. Okay. This is the fulfillment of that.

So, step one, no fucking palpatine. No palpatine. No palpatine. Step two, kill Leia off screen and have it be in the opening crawl. Okay. She, I mean, literally carry Fisher's dead. There's no reason to bring her back for that. Like you could have killed her off and it, yeah. Yeah. Now make it so you, you don't have palpatine.

You don't have any of the trappings of the old, right? Because Luke died, Hans dead and Leia's dead which means the Eritage Tridge gone the power trio right now it's much more about how all three of these three the new power trio are stronger together and you keep the tension between all of them episode eight was about each one accepting and learning what was at their core, okay? I loved Finn because he says that's rebel scum Because prior to that he was just trying to find Ray. Yeah, and then he accepted Mm-hmm. I'm taking a side not just I'm trying to escape. I'm taking a side. I love that. I'm literally goosebumps right now. Yeah

Here's a quote we are the spark that'll light the fire that'll burn the first order down. That's Poe. Yeah. Right? He's accepting his role as a leader. Again, goosebumps. I felt something. It awakened, but I now, but now I need to know how to wield it from Ray. Mm-hmm. She has to accept her power, right? And here's the king. The real key to all this rose. She is at the center of the three of them on that wheel. So from one you have morality, from one you have leadership, and from one you have accepting your potential. In other words, you still have Leia, Han, and Luke. And you have Rose at the middle of it all, which it's a new.

Sure, yeah, okay. I would say R2. Okay, all right. But yes, and Rose brings them all together. She is their center, quote, we're going to win this war not by fighting what we hate but by saving what we love. And that is what gets Ray to stay with the light side

when she dips into the dark side. Okay. It's what keeps Finn fighting for the right thing instead of just trying to destroy shit. Now that he's a zealot for the rebels and it keeps Po realizing that he has to be an exemplar for others. He can't just go and do everything on his own.

Okay. They all help each other and they're clearly more than the sum of their parts. They synergize. So that becomes the resistance. The first order is absolutely led by Kylo Ren and he is thoroughly irredeemable. He is so firmly, fully immersed in his fanboy for Vader activity that he's leading the Knights of Ren to conquer the galaxy.

And that's the BBEG at the end, the Knights of Ren, and Ren personally fighting the heroes. And you can still have a similar Dunkirk moment too, with something very dire anyway. So that's Leia's disappointment is redeemed. Her disappointment or son is redeemed. Her disappointment in the fact that nobody answered the call is redeemed. And so that pose efforts to recruit have finally paid off and they do become the spark. Ray kills Kylo, Poe ends up injured and in need of a prosthetic arm or some noticeable thing. He was already, you know, like this, thin and rose come out unscathed. Chewy and landow die heroically.

Wedge comes back and joins the crew because... Um... Because Shelf of... Yeah Wedge? Yeah. Mary gets joined by Pippin and it all... Wait. I mean I'm down!

Don't get me wrong! It's even going to school! Yeah, but I had that feeling. I saw it. And it all ends with the heroes arm and arm looking over a setting sun or three tired and satisfied and awaiting what's next. But it does have to end with a sunset. Okay. Yeah. All right. So that is the promise filled. That's that's how you do it. Okay. Do you have an episode nine? I have very strong feelings. Nothing, okay, because part of what I have to reveal at this point is it took me forever

to actually finish watching Ep 9. I did not ever get to see it in the theater because Toddler at home. Sure. And so I had to wait until Disney Plus and everything. So I have not had enough time to formulate a whole plan like you've got, but I did have very strong reactions to things.

I think I do think bringing Palpatine back was cheap. I think I do think bringing Palpatine back was cheap. Like right off the bat, unless you were literally gonna say, you know what, you know what, we're gonna go into legends like we've done with other stuff and we're gonna go back into legends and we're gonna pull something out of the vault. Yeah, and that would have been fine. And we're gonna take, we're going to take some things

because they did, they took some things directly from Dark Empire. They did, they absolutely did. And it was like, okay, now we're gonna take, we're going to take some things because they did, they took some things directly from Dark Empire. They did, they absolutely did. And it was like, okay, now we're gonna take some shit from Dark Empire. They had the, the Snoke cloning. Yeah, yeah! That's, oh my god, yeah.

That was cool. Yeah, so, okay, take some stuff completely out of, out of like, take Dark Empire. Mm-hmm. We can't have Luke go to the dark side because he's dead, but the other idea is the other themes involved in that storyline. Okay, if you need to have Palpatine involved,

have Palpatine involved. Right. Don't make Rey his granddaughter. No. Um, spoiler alert. Um, don't make Ray a palpatine. I actually had that ruin for me like long before I got anywhere near even seeing the movie because somebody in a restaurant couldn't keep her mouth shut two tables over because it was pre-COVID you could actually go out and go to dinner. Well okay but was it two weeks after the movie had released?

Eight days? Okay that's that's she should have shot up. Yeah yeah yeah. So and like not even just like having a conversation about it at the table but like talking loudly. Like really? I almost like there was that part of me that was like, you know, some of us haven't had the chance to see it yet. Right. You know, so, you know, don't have Kylo's statement in episode eight, you're nobody. Have that be true.

Have that be true. I loved that. because how much more potent A story is that especially with that little kid using the course to grab the broom you Okay, so So don't don't don't rely on this whole sift bloodline right right fucking no have have have Palpatine be if you got to have Palpatine have him be doing something else evil The massive super weapon fleet of of Star Destroyers with planet planet destroying cannons and every one of them right that look like a hyena's dick Yeah, you know, I mean I I understand narratively why you're going with that, but you don't need to do that.

You've done that in four of the last nine movies. Four of the last nine films. You don't really need to do that now. So let's not have planet destroying weapons. Let's just maybe, oh, hey, here's an idea that he palpatine, not the new order. No, no, the new order are the command cadre, but Palpatine has a brand new clone army. There you go And and you know, he still has big secret fleet, but you know if you're gonna go dark empire bring back the ginormous killer huge mega super star destroyers, right and No, no, and every one of them has a clone army aboard. Right. And it's not about destroying planets.

It's about, no, no, I'll just subjugate everybody. Unless you can blow them all up while they're in the ships. Right. They still have the same battle. Yep. Yep. But you don't rely on and another super weapon. No.

Right. Yeah. That just felt lazy. I'm with you. And I disagree with you. Oh, disagree with you pointedly, because it's a recurring theme in the series. Okay.

And it was a big part of Dark Empire. I don't wanna see Kyla Renby irredeemable. If you're going to have like again, I'm totally okay with let's let's do dark empire or reveriation on dark empire. Okay. Yeah. Palpatine's here. Sure.

Cool. If you've got him, you don't need Kylo Ren to be irredeemable. And as a matter of fact, I wanted to see more of Ben Kenobi. They're not Ben Kenobi. Ben Skywalker. I wanted to see more of Ben Kenobi. They're not Ben Kenobi, Ben Skywalker. I wanted to see more of Ben Skywalker. Yeah. I see what the point was in the way he went out. I get it.

But I didn't like it. It didn't feel, it felt like a cop out. It felt like, well, you know, and he has to die here. No, he doesn't. His archetype doesn't have to be that he dies heroically right here. Right. You don't have to do that. And him and Ray being, I wanted to see more of this diet and the force thing. Oh, God, I couldn't stand it. Well, it's, but I, but I would, but like, no, no, no, no, no. Like, if you're gonna bring that up, do something with it. True.

You know, or do more with it than what they did. And, and at the end, at the very, very end. Number one, Ray, Finn, Rose, and Poe are a polycule and you cannot convince me otherwise. Polycule? Polyamorous relationship. Oh, okay, gotcha. They're a quadrate, not a triad, but you know, and like, no, no. Quadruple.

Quadruple, yeah. Like, no, no. A quadruple. Quadruple, yeah. Like, no, no, and we're done. Like, the kind of, you know, the hints between Poe and Finn about, you know, like, yeah. Bros? Yeah. Yeah, bros in that same way that like, you know,

Achilles and Patrickless were bros. Yes, right. Totally, yeah. Totally their bros. Yes, right. Totally, yeah. Totally, they're best buds. Yes. And, and Finn, and like Finn was sitting at the center of three different, three different romance arcs. Like, no, no, lean into that.

Yeah. Like, no, no, no. Everybody wants to be the bread and a Finn sandwich. Like, there, no. Everybody wants to be the bread and a fin sandwich. Like, there you go. And, and, and, you know, just do it. Just commit to doing that. And then the relationship between Ray and, and, and, and Kylo, Ben, doesn't have to be a romantic one. Yes. Because all of the romantic overtones of that,

were bugging me. Yeah, well, it wasn't well-written. Yeah, it wasn't well written. It never jelled. Right. And so, no, I don't wanna see that. I wanna see them be like, no, no, we're siblings. We are, we are,

Simpatico in this way. Right. Right. And then at the very end have the kid with the broom show up at Ray and Ben's doorstep. I like that. And say I'm here. I'm here. Yeah. Just just I'm here. And with a knowing look in his eyes, like you're the people who are gonna teach him. And there you go. Yeah, that's it. You know, I had goosebumps at multiple points during the film. I wept at multiple points during the film. There were multiple points during the movie where I was like,

really? The fuck? You're right. You know, it was an emotional roller coaster, not always in a good way. Yeah, it was an unsatisfying, emotional roller coaster. You know, and there were so many moments of like,

sheer awesome, and then, and like, and then they just dropped. Stitch together and interrupted by. Yeah. Yeah. So that's my. I like it. I like it. That's my take. Okay. Well,

let's see, what are you reading lately? Because that's that's it for us. Yeah. Yeah. Um, what am I reading lately? Other than student work. Um, I am not reading very much right now, but I am going to very strongly recommend the Dark Empire comics since we've been since we're talking about this. Yeah, the the Dark Horse comics series Dark Empire When I initially read him in high school in 93 I Really didn't like him. Yeah, the art style. The art style is a massive departure from a lot of other stuff. And it's sometimes kind of the art is a bit difficult to follow.

Yeah, it's too monochrome for me. Yeah, what I really didn't like narratively was I as a senior in high school the idea of loop turning to the dark side spoilers but it's a central plot point so it's not really spoiling. I'm not really spoiling much but the idea of loop turning to the dark side was just I could not bring myself to accept it. was just I could not bring myself to accept it. Now that I'm older, I think it's a story that is worth looking at and considering. It's actually very well put together. Again, the art may or may not be everybody's taste, but the storyline is solid in my opinion. So I highly recommend that. How about you? Funny that you suggested a Star Wars thing, because I'm also going to

suggest a Star Wars novelization of episode three, Revenge of the Sith. The book is better than the movie upon which it is based. Because the author, and I believe it's James Luceno, I might be off on that in which case, please, any of our loyal listeners, by the way, thank you for sticking with us for a hundred episodes. Yeah. Special shout out, especially to Derek Lipkin,

for making the distance part of it possible. Yeah. A friend of the show who also taught us about pinball. Yes. And he's been a loyal listener since before that. Yeah. A friend of the show who also taught us about pinball. Yes. Um, and he's been a loyal listener since, uh, before that. Yeah. Uh, so special shout out there, Derek. But, uh, but yeah, I believe it's James Lusano and it's episode three, uh, the novelization because, uh, there's these wonderful little sides that get into, um, like, the, the author just takes like these little chunks out and says,

this is what it's like to be and I can sky walk her right now. Oh wow. And then he'll do the same thing about Obi-Wan. And it just like, it really gets into the inner monologualy characters. I really do that. So all right. Cool.

Where can people find you on social medias? People can find me on the social medias at EH Blaylock on Twitter. I can be found on Instagram and on TikTok as MrBlaloc. And of course they can find both of us on the Twitter machine at Geek History Time. And if they want to yell at you about your heretical ideas for episode three or take credit for, hey, that's my idea. Where can they find you? You can find me at duh harmony and go ahead and add me. I'm still private because of all the harassment from a couple weeks ago, but that'll end soon. But find me at duh Harmony on the Insta and the Twitter. And you can also find me on

Well, this here website. Also Excelsior Gaming is a YouTube podcast that we're putting out myself in Ian McDonald Which is talking about Marvel Strike Force, the video game. it's a lot of fun. My son really liked it, which is always a good seal of approval. And you can also find me every Tuesday night on twitch.tv-capital-punz, going, coming up on the five-year mark. Actually, it's pretty cool, yeah.

Cool. So yeah, that's enough places to find me, shit. All right, there you go. Cool, well for a geek history of time, I'm Damien Harmony. And I'm Ed Blalock and until next time, keep rolling 20s.