A Geek History of Time - Episode 110 - 1990s and Wrestling Part V

Episode Date: June 6, 2021

I'm not here to poke holes and suspended this belief. Anyway, they see some weird shit. They decide to make a baby. Now, Muckin' Merchant. Who gives a fuck? Oh my god, which is a trickle, baby. You know what I mean? Well, you know, I really like it here. It's kind of nice and it's not as cold as Muckin' or Muckin' or Muckin' or Muckin' or Muckin' or Muckin' or Muckin' or Muckin' or Muckin' or Muckin' or Muckin' or Muckin' or Muckin' or Muckin' or Muckin' or Muckin' or Muckin' or Muckin' or Muckin' or Muckin' or Muckin' or Muckin' or Muckin' or Muckin' or Muckin' or Muckin' or Muckin' or Muckin' or Muckin' or Muckin' or Muckin' or Muckin' or Muckin' or Muckin' or Muckin' or Muckin' or Muckin' or Muckin' or Muckin' or Muckin' or Muckin' or Muckin' or Muckin' or Muckin' or Muckin' or Muckin' or Muckin' or Muckin' or Muckin' or Muckin' or Muckin' or Muckin' or Muckin' or Muckin' or Muckin' or Muckin' or Muckin' or Muckin' or Muckin' or Muckin' or Muckin' or Muckin' Muckin' or Muckin' or Muckin' Muckin' or Muckin' or Muckin' or Muckin' or Muckin So yeah sure I think we're gonna settle. If I'm a peasant boy who grabs sword out of a stone,

yeah, I'm able to open people up. You will, yeah. Anytime I hit them with it, right? Yeah. So my cleave landing will make me a cavalier. Good day, Spree. If Sysclothon it was empty-headed, plubian trash, being trash is really good.

Really good group. Because cannibalism and murder, we'll back just a little bit, build walls to keep out the radiance. And it's a little bit of a ground tunnel. A thorough intent doesn't exist. Some people stand up quite a bit, some people stay seeing the white spots,

but it just... It's like a Disney. This is a Beacon Tree of Time. We'll make a camp here for the two-year-old. My name is Ed Blayb. I'm a little miss from the future of the movie California. Sometimes masquerading is a teacher of the English language. And I am really excited that this weekend, I'm going to date our recording right here. We got a holiday weekend and on Monday, I'm going to get to meet producer George's family. So I'm very excited about that. Who are you and what's going on in your life?

I'm Damien Harmony. I am a Latin teacher up here in Northern California for just a last little bit. And I mean, honestly, it's gonna be about two years where I still get to teach a little bit of Latin. But I have seen George, producer George's family a bunch of times. So no great shakes But it will be the first time that my children get to come down there to see them since I checked the calendar January of 2020 okay, I believe yes, yes Purtina you're in a half. Yeah, so which in in the parlance of my children at least three or four inches Yes, so yeah, they're sprouting up so I'm very much looking forward to it

I got to see them a few weeks ago because we're all vaccinated now, so it's been nice So yeah, that's that's about what we got going on And unfortunately for a producer George's wife misses producer George I I don't cover very much of her favorite wrestler Booker T who is known for his incredibly long legs. Really? Yeah, it's just, well he's known to her for his incredibly long legs. Yeah, but he's far and away her favorite wrestler. Okay. Yeah. All right. Now you had mentioned that your favorite wrestler is...

Brett the headman heart. Brett the headman heart. Yes. And I actually did a very little bit of my own research during the week because this came up and you've kind of mentioned it. And you've mentioned this seminal event, this incredibly important event in the history of modern professional wrestling.

Yes. Repeatedly. Yes. In several different episodes when wrestling has come up because it's just that big a deal culturally. Yep. Yep. And so I'm very excited.

Because you said the other day that we're finally going to talk about this in detail. The Montreal Screwjob. Montreal Screwjob. Yes. Now to talk about the Montreal Screwjob, we of course have to talk about 1700th puppetry. Because that's always how this works. That's how it's known. We can actually just go back to Abraham Lincoln.

So who is known for his wrestling? No, actually, let's go back to 1925 though. I joke and I kid but 1925 now the Montreal screw job happened in 1997 Yes, so we're of course gonna go back to 1925 in 1925 you might remember Ed the Strangler Lewis. Yes, okay. Well, he he was a part of a trio of guys. There was, at the Strangler Lewis, Wayne Munn, and if I recall correctly, George Sandow, or it might have been. Name sounds familiar.

Yeah, and there was a group called the Gold Dust trio. I might be mixing guys up, quite honestly. Recognized Gold Dust trio, for sure. So anyway, at the Strangler Lewis was backing a guy named Wayne Munn. Or no, I'm sorry, it was backing guy name, Stanislaus Zabisco. Okay, I recognize that name too. Now Zabisco.

He communicated me well. Yes. His name ends up getting taken up by a guy named Larry Zabisco, who was big in the 70s. Okay. But Stanislaus Zabisco, really good, you know, pro wrestler, it's 1925. Heather Stingler Lewis was involved in a screw job, whereby Wayne

Munn got the shit kicked out of him. So, okay, like a legitimate beating. Yeah, well, it was a work turned shoot. And it was, yeah, it was a double cross. Oh, wow. Lewis was on Muns side as best I could tell. And so what he did was he went back and he went to the state athletic commissions, both of which, you know, they license wrestlers. And if you don't have a license, then, and actually I just found Hulk Hogan's wrestling license from the 70s. Oh, yeah. Yeah. But if you don't have a license then and actually I just found Hulk Hogan's wrestling license from the 70s. Oh yeah. Yeah. But if you don't have a wrestling license, you can't wrestle in that town or in that

state. He went to the state athletic commissions and he got them to erase the decision of a shoot that was supposed to be a work and that therefore, Mun kept the title and Mun dropped the title to Lewis just a few weeks later. Now, that was 1925, and I bring that up because in 1931, Henry DeGlain and Ed the Strangler Lewis were involved in a screw job. Now DeGlain, back then's championship matches were best two out of three falls. Okay. Okay. And the Ed had the belt and I believe he was supposed to go over and between the first and the second fall and I think yeah because if Deglaine got the first fall as his normal, you know, give your champion some, some, um,

Jeopardy to be in, right? So he's got the first fall. Yeah. Then there's a small rest period. He bit himself near his own armpit to the point where he drew blood and left teeth marks. Then he hid that as he went into wrestle. As soon as he got Ed in I think into a headlock or they might have just locked up he started screaming. The ref saw the blood and saw the teeth marks and immediately disqualified at the strangler Lewis. Oh my god. Awarded the belt to Deglaine. Where did the match to the big leg lane? And Lewis knew he'd gotten screwed so he went to the back to beat the shit out of the promoter But the promoter had hired bodyguards all equipped with baseball bats Okay, so the moment you go back there and find that the guys hired bodyguards. You know, you like fuck it?

Yeah, yeah, all confirmation also fuck it. I'm going to Europe and that's what he did okay. All right, so that's 31 19 okay hold on I want it like I can't imagine Trying it. Oh, God. Oh, but see, but that's your arm, but it's near the armpit Okay, yeah, all right, so yeah, I thought he bit his own flanks, too, but like his own pectoral right like how do you how do you get your own you can't right and and yeah, and I don't want to be like I don't want to be a talking point on clerks three. So I'm not going to bother trying. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, so yeah, so now 1933 Jim Laundice. Okay, now Jim Laundice you may have heard I don't eat. I don't think that one doesn't ring a bell.

He was a body guy. He was one of the first non-traditional shooters, and he was a body guy, and he drew a Hello crowd. He was a very handsome man. I can't remember. I think he was called the Golden Greek, or something like that. That's such a great name. Yeah.

Okay. And he was going against Joe Savoldi. Now Laundice had lots of enemies. He also didn't work very well. He was kind of the early Hulk Hogan, except I would say Hulk Hogan actually could work. He just never had to. At least in America.

Like, you watch some of Hogan's Japanese matches. Dude could work. And he sold. Hogan always sold. I'm a big believer of that. But Savolddi was in Cahoots with his promoter. Remember there's rival promotions. And this is in 33. And he, if I recall correctly, yes, Sevaldi, so Joe Sevaldi, put him in a submission hold.

Okay. And Laundice made it to the ropes. And Savoldy, and the reason Laundice made it to the ropes was because Savoldy started putting what's called shooting pressure, not working pressure. Oh, okay. So if I were to take you outside of our recording studio and put you in a figure four, I could do it

and make it look like I'm killing you and you could react accordingly. Yeah. Or I could snap your leg like a goddamn twig because a figure four, I could do it and make it look like I'm killing you and you could react accordingly. Or I could snap your leg like a goddamn twig because the figure four will snap someone's knee like a goddamn twig. No, it will. Yeah, fuck them up. Yeah, so, so, so, so, all he put, shoot pressure and Laundice immediately reach back and grab the ropes.

Now, if you grab the ropes, that breaks the hold. The referee ignored this and called for the ropes. Now, if you grab the ropes, that breaks the hold. The referee ignored this and called for the bell. I believe that this is the most similar antecedent to the Montreal screwdriver. Okay. Okay. So just consider the piece of the reply. Okay. Yeah, got it. Now, in 36, there's a screwdriver that almost killed wrestling forever in New York It actually killed wrestling in Madison Square Garden for 10 years really yes It was I love these names. There was a guy named dick Shikot. Okay, okay, and there was a An Irishman from New York called Dano Oma Hooney Dano Omaahoney. Dano O'Mahoney.

Yes. Now, Chicago. Yeah. O'Mahoney. All right. Okay. Chicago was supposed to job out to him for the championship, but he ends up shooting on

Dano and beats him. He then gets the title and then he drops the title just a few weeks later. Now, this is a pretty normal thing. The guy who does the hatchet job is a transitional champion so that he can then give it to the next guy because then everything all the dust kind of settles. Yeah, you don't have a reset. Yeah, you don't have a bunch of shooters gunning for that guy either. Yeah, okay. Yeah, that makes sense. So guess where he drops the title though. Madison Square Garden. Montreal. Oh, okay.

Now, the most recent screwdriver prior to 1997, I think. Now, there are others that happen in Japan. I don't want to say that those didn't happen. And there was a screwdriver that happened in an NWA Title tournament I remember But this one was between Wendy Richter and the spider lady now Wendy Richter was the female version of Hulk Hogan You had the rock and wrestling happening in 1985. She's Wendy Richter is the one that went to the ring with Cindy Lauper Oh, right. Okay. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Wendy Richter, I have a fire call correctly.

Nope, that's rock and robin. Never mind. Wendy Richter, rock and robin is the sister of Jake the snake robberts. Okay. And they're both the children of Grizzly Adams, or Grizzly Smith, the one that's a wrestler and not the guy that is. Grizzly Adams was the mountain man. Okay, this would be Grizzly Smith.

Okay. But anyway, so Wendy Richter, not related to them. Wendy Richter was according to McMahon, she was too big for her britches because get this. She handed her a contract the night of the show and she said, I don't want to sign it until I've read it. And that's not how you do a business according to McMahon in 1985. Wow. Yeah. Now she was demanding Hulk Hogan money according to a lot of people and and you could certainly have I mean, you and I are union guys. None of these wrestlers are Jesse the body venture.

I tried to start a union. Hulk Hogan stooge did out. That's a fun story. Wow. Yeah. But according to Jesse, Hulk Hogan stooge did out. That's a fun story. Wow. Yeah. But according to Jesse, of course. Okay, well yeah.

Yeah, and there's, and there's, you know, take a Salt Lake. Yeah. But at the same time, having said that, I do tend to believe Jesse when it comes to workers rights issues. You'd, okay. Because of this lawsuit that he won against McMahon.

Yeah. Because of how he's bounced around to different federations specifically because he's like, no, you're not giving me the money I deserve. Yeah. So anyway, Wendy Richter wanted to read her contract before signing it. She was a big draw, but Vince already had Hulk Hogan, and he's like, that's, that's the last straw. So he came up with Plan B, and Plan B was to have a

wrestle the spider lady. Now the spider lady, as soon as Wendy gets out there, she's like, that's fucking fabulous mula under a mask. So she knows, she knows some, yeah, bullshit's about to happen. Cause yeah, fabulous mula is a real shooter. Fabulous mula is a goddamn asshole. Oh, okay. But she was always, she like, the stories on her.

Honestly, that's gonna be one of my recommendations. It's just go watch Vice on Hulu and watch the Fabulous Mula episode. Okay. And then watch the Montreal Screwjob episode because both of those, but they deal screw jobs, both of them actually. But Fabulous Mula was a, she was from the old carny days.

And so she exploited the hell out of the wrestlers that she trained and they were the only way to work as a woman wrestler was basically to work for her crew. And she always got a kick back. It was really crooked. So there's a lot of people who have a very problematic history with her specifically. To the point where they actually WWE in a classic misstep on their part,

they did an all woman's battle royal and they called it the fabulous mula classic and Twitter roasted them to the point where they changed the name. Because one of my favorite comments was, does this mean all the women in it are only going to get paid 30% of what they make and then someone else is going to get the rest. So yeah. Okay. So Wendy Richter goes out there. Now in 1985 fabulous Mool had been wrestling for 30, 35 years. Jesus. Yeah. She, she was the longest reigning women's champion. Okay. She was very loyal to Vince's dad and that passed down to Vince. Okay, all right, so she, but by that time she had to be in her 50s? Probably. If you look at pictures over here, you're like, yeah, that's easily in her 50s.

I mean, like, we're talking about a physical athletic competition here. So, youth and strengths aren't nothing. Right, but we're also talking about, as you call it, sparkly murder gymnastics, right? Yeah, okay, good point. So, yeah, it's pretty easy to, especially when you are a mean asshole like fabulous Mula was in terms of the way that you work with people. Yeah, she was born in 1923. So it's 1985, so she's 63. Yeah. Yeah. Okay. And she's still wrestling at that point.

So she's, but she's now, I mean, that's impressive. Yeah. She only had like four moves. You know, I mean, she was, but they were all asshole moves. Like, she's like really pulling people by the hair, swinging them around by the hair, kicking them for real. I mean, most of her moves were just shoot moves. Okay. But the history of women's wrestling in the North American continent is fascinating and corrupt as shit. Like, oh, God, the guy who ran it for a while and just, oh, you quite the rabbit hole you can go down. But anyway, Mula is under a mask.

She's known as the spider lady. Wendy goes out there and she's like, that's fucking Mula. I know it's Mula, but I'm okay with it because I can handle myself. She thought she could shoot her. And she probably could have, however, she didn't count against the ref. And so Mula got her in a small package for a one count. The ref quickly pounded out of three count. After that, Wendy went to the back, grabbed her bags. She had never heard from again in the WWE F. Oh wow. Until Vince had her come back for the Hall of Fame.

Which is this weird Caesar-like thing of, I've got the power to forgive you because I'm so powerful and you're gonna like it. And everybody kind of comes back for it because it's a payday and it's a way of like mending fences in some ways. And yeah. Yeah. So there are fruit ups.

I'm gonna forgive you. For me having fucked you over. I'm gonna for yeah, yeah, yeah. Vence is gonna forgive, yeah. Yeah. Yes. I mean, cause that's the hand of magnetism. Yes.

Yes. Yes. You may approach. Mm-hmm. Absolutely. So that brings us to the Montreal screwdriver. I guess. So let's see, Bret Hart and Shawn Michaels had a 60 minute Iron Man match in WrestleMania 12.

OK. I still consider it a very boring match, even though it's two of my favorite performers of all times. Two guys that I'd seen the most in my lifetime. My very first match that I ever watched was the Rockers. No, the Midnight Rockers versus Playboy Buddy Rose and Pretty Boy Doug Summers. Okay.

By the way, Midnight Rockers got their names from the Midnight Express and the Rock and Roll Express. Okay. Uh, those teams were huge in the South. Okay. Uh, and so Sean Michaels, Marty Genetti versus Playboy Buddy Rose and Prettyboy Doug Summers. That was like the first match I ever watched. And it was an AWA.

Okay. And then I found WWF. And one of the first matches I watched there was the heart foundation with Brett the hitman heart and Jim the Iainville night heart with Jimmy heart as their manager when they were heels the heart foundation versus I want to say it was a the no it wouldn't have been the young stallions because they didn't come in until 87 or so I might against been against the British Bulldog or something it was just just a shaman's match. But so these are two guys that I'd followed my entire love of wrestling. Okay.

So they had a great match according to most at a wrestling any of 12. I personally found it a little boring. Yes, it told the story, but it was a really long drawn out story. Okay. Yeah, as it was. Okay. So for a while, that particular match goes to zero, zero after 60 minutes, which you hit the 60 minute mark champions advantage. Brett walks out. I'm still a champ. Okay.

Gorilla monsoon, then the commissioner at the time says, no, this match needs to have a winner and a loser. So get back in here and it's going to be sudden death. Next fall wins. Brett's like this is ridiculous. By the way, it ended with Brett keeping Sean in the sharpshooter for a long time. Okay. The sharpshooter is his submission move. His signature. Yeah.

Yeah. And so he comes back in Sean's selling it like a champ because Sean is an amazing performer. I dare say Sean is a better performer than Brett in terms of spectacle. Okay. I still, I mean, Brett's still my favorite. And also, I think Brett is a better performer in terms of making everybody else look good while telling different stories. Okay.

And not, not always putting himself over, even though he constantly went over. Brett goes in and basically, you know, kicks on Sean a bunch. Sean, he's got a really quick move called Sweet Chin Music where he kicks you upside the chin. Yeah. And knocks you out. He does it twice to Brett because the first one, they're like, oh, it didn't catch him all the way and Brett gets back up and Sean hits him again

and pins him clean in the middle. And he is now champion. Now Sean at this point is in his very early 30s. And his body is fairly damaged from everything he's done and he's starting to get into some pretty hefty drugs. Oh, really? Yeah, and he's a real asshole, like through a lot of it. Like, Premadana, Winnie Boy, you know, it's,

he's not the man that he later becomes and you know, it is what it's, he's not the man that he later becomes and, you know, it's, it is what it is. Okay. Um, now that's at that time, WrestleMania at that point, he was here. He'll. So at this time, there were both faces. Okay. Because Sean, the, the audience had just started liking Sean more and more and more. Okay. And they talked about this as being his boyhood dream. And they had these wonderful promos that showed Sean as just a superman. It's funny too because the promos that they cut on Brett were, he looked like an old man

running around. Like there's one where he's being trained by his dad. Well his dad is too hard and had been in the Olympics in like 1940. But Stu is a master stretcher. And so you show Brett getting stretched by his dad, which is good training, but he's getting beat up by an old man is what it looks like, right?

Meanwhile, Sean's doing upside down pushups and he's running up and down like the stadium steps. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Brett's running, yeah. Brett's running, but he's running in Calgary, so it's really, really slippery everywhere because it's you know the winter because Snow and ice yeah, maybe is in spring and so Brett's running hell of slow, you know, and it just a lot of bad optics for Brett Yeah, bummer for that so Sean is a good guy. He's a face and at least in front of the camera

So at the end of it, and they're starting to kind of turn Brett a little bit. They're giving him a few shades here. Now, this is 96, so we're heading toward Stone Cold Steve Austin exists, but I think he's still the ringmaster, and if he's not the ringmaster, he just turned into Stone Cold.

Okay. Okay. So he's not white hot yet, but you're starting to see shading's happening, right? Got it. Okay. So Brett leaves, gets in his car and drives away, and he does this to work the boys.

He does this to start the rumor mill going that he's actually pissed about how it ended. Okay. Including backstage, okay? Oh, oh, oh, so it's head games. Yes, he's actually pissed about how it ended. Okay. Including backstage, okay? Oh, oh, oh, so it's head games. Yes, he's working the boys because the boys talk to the dirt sheets and the dirt sheets get out to the fans

and the fans talk to each other and there's smart marks and stuff like that. Okay, back up, I need a little bit of vocabulary. Sure. So, boys. Wrestlers in the back. Oh, there was, okay. Not the promoter.

Okay, dirt sheets. Independent publications that rely on the rumors and information given by the wrestlers themselves. Okay, I feel like Zines. Yeah, kind of like think of the national inquiry mixed with sports illustrated. Okay, it'll print rumors, it'll print speculations, but it'll also give you stats and stuff like. Yeah. Okay. All right.

Okay. So, so he's, he's, he's trying to work his fellow wrestlers. A bit. Yeah. Because he's going to take some time off. Okay. And so you just lost the championship. You leave and you're gone and that allows the rumor mill to keep going.

He's the name in there because he's building toward WrestleMania 13, where he and Sean get a rematch. Right. That's what he's planning for, right? Sean gives him back the, you know, the belt then or whatnot. And also he's going to go away so that people can miss him. He's also going to go away so that he can film loan some dove. Right. And he's going to go away because he's got some nagging injuries.

So, now for a while, they were working off of this legit heat. Sean goes and has a wonderful baby face run for a while. Then Brett comes back. I want to say for summer slam or so. So we're talking about five, six months later. Okay. And he immediately gets thrust into a program of stone cold. Okay.

And that gets that started. I believe I talked about that last time where they fought all over the yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So in the meantime, hard had turned down a deal that summer for WCW. So he's also his contract was up. WCW came in and offered him $8.4 million over three years. Yeah. He's the best wrestler in the world at this point. $8.4 million. Yes. Now, do we know how much he was getting paid by man? Over three. Well, so 8.4 over three years is two and some change per year. I think he was getting seven to 8,000, possibly cresting a million, maybe not.

Okay. McMahon doesn't have Ted Turner money. Yeah, okay, all right, there is that. So McMahon talks with, and Brett goes to McMahon, and he's like, I've got this great offer. What can you give me? And he said, and I'll tell you right now, I don't want to take that offer.

I want to stay here. So there's some mutual loyalty going on there. Okay. Brett helped McMahon, McMahon helped make Brett. Yeah. So he and McMahon sign a 20 year deal. And it's going to be worth, I want to say like 10 million over the course of 20 years, but a whole bunch of it up front.

And then as he transitions to being office staff, he'll get less and less. Okay, fair enough. But 20 years and it's an unprecedented deal. Nobody's ever had that deal. Okay, so that happens in the summer. Okay. Then he comes back and he and Sean, um, after the program of Stone Cold,

that pretty much ends it at Survivor Series of 96, okay, which is a really cool survivor series. Um, after that program ends, he then starts positioning himself for matches with Sean and starts setting up for WrestleMania. Well, he and Sean start having a bit of problems and McMahon is in the background kind of stoking it because real heat equals real heat in the ring equals a good match. Okay.

Okay. That makes sense. What I read in my, you know, peddling research compared to, you know, your, your vast innate knowledge and any amount of, you know, research you've, you've done. Sure. But in, in reading about the screw job, what came up was that the two of them had a feud. Yeah. Yeah. And so was it just insults being flung back and forth or was there some event?

Well, so it goes back to Manian a little bit before that, right? They're the two best and according to Sean, he had immense respect for Brett. And according to Brett, he thought that Sean was going to be the guy he passed the torch to. So he smelled money, Sean smelled money. They both had been friends before, then they'd go on a part and then you've got this and Sean starting to act like a dick. And Brett has always been accused of taking shit too seriously. Okay. Okay. So Sean has a wonderful run as champion. I think he ends up losing to Sid at one point. And then yeah, he loses the belt. He drops the belt to Sid, Psycho Sid, who is just a shitty terrible worker who looks amazing. He's got an incredible look and he's got this weird-ass charisma. Okay. He's a shit worker. He loses to Sid eventually. I think he loses to Sid actually at

Survivor Series. Okay. And then Sean gets the belt back. Right. And then, so he's supposed to drop the belt to Brett. That was Brett's assumption, by the way I'm not gonna say that that was the plan. I'm gonna say that that's what Brett dropped a belt in Mania thinking Yeah, and was allowed to think that yeah plans change, you know things things go different, but Sean gets the belt back and he's supposed to drop to Brett but then on the belt back and he's supposed to drop to Brett, but then on February 13th, 1997, and I literally just have that locked in my head. Sean gives the famous, I've lost my smile speech. What really is happening is that he has knee troubles. He's starting to have knee troubles. And he needs to have surgery. And so they do this thing where Owen Hart kicks

him in the head, Owen Hart wets brother kicks him in the head and he gets concussed and all this and it's a storyline type thing. And then he goes out into the crowd or I'm sorry, he goes out to the ring the next week, I think it's the next week. And he talks about how he's lost his smile, which was a surprise to just about everybody. And he surrenders the belt, which means he's not dropping it to Brett. Now Brett's pissed. By all accounts, it was the plan going forward that they have a rematch at Mania, that they have a rematch for the belt.

I'm not entirely sure, but I think so. Okay. And it seemed like it was going that way because Sean got the belt back from Sid. Yeah. But he drops the belt and says, I can't, well, then there's a, a foreman, there was supposed to be a foreman thing to decide who was the number one contender and Brett was going to get that. But then Stone Cold screws him out of it. And I think, let's see, we're going into WrestleMania 13. Yeah, I think that Undertaker wins it. Okay.

Because Undertaker, Vader, Brett and Sid. Awesome. No, it's Sid. Austin comes in and interferes, right? Oh, all right. So, and I might have that a little bit fuzzy, but so this is February. Mania is in March.

Oh, shit. So the championship match be- Not a lot of time. No, no. And then, so Sean announces that he's got to go get surgery and all this kind of stuff. Then a few weeks later, he comes out and does a back flip off the top rope in his street clothes.

So now these guys have legit heat and then Sean ends up, I don't think he ends up getting the surgery or if he does, it's just a scoping and it's not a big deal. But either way, yeah. So now Brett and Sean have legit heat with each other, Brett's pissed. Yeah, I understandably so most people are tired of Sean's shit and It is to our it's WrestleMania 13 so that puts us in 1997. No, yeah 13 is in 97. Yes, because 14 was in 98 so 13 is in 1997. It's March of 1997

Sean comes out and does commentary for the championship match. He's putting everybody over Now at this point, it's clear that he and Brett are having an on air feud Brett comes out and interferes in the match and gets his ass kicked and But at one point he cuts a promo on Sean. He says, you know, you little boy toy, by the way, Sean had posed for a play girl and he calls him, you know, you little boy toy, you know, he keeps calling him that for a while. You know, you go back and find your damn smile

or I'll kick your ass and then it'll, and Sean's like, oh, I'm so scared. So he absolutely starts acting like a chicken shit heel but also a cool heel put himself over at Brett's expense. Brett is basically playing by Mark Weiss of Queensborough rules. Yeah. And Sean is playing by ECW rules, you know, in terms of the disparity between who's getting over verbally.

Also, Brett has never been a good strong promo. Sean has always been a good strong promo. But so you have the commentary during Mania, they don't talk to each other much after that. Partly due to a few things that happen, Sean gives a promo, they start really feuding, you know, after Brett turns heel at Mania. He turns heel at Mania 13. Okay. And he turns Austin face. And we talked about the double turn. Yeah, yeah. So now Brett is a petulant heel. And so you can really go in against him about him whining and stuff like that. Okay. And but Sean is acting like a sarcastic face. So he's not quite a face anymore. And Brett's like,

look, take her's your number one face. Who's your goddamn heel here? Because it used to be Sean. And now it's me. And now you're saying it's Sean again. Where are you? What are you doing with me? Right?

And he's got this 20 year contract. Oh, okay. So he's got a reason to stick around and do stuff. Well, it gets worse and worse. Sean calls out Brett, I think in, oh, I want to say it was in the summer. He says, well, Brett, while you've been busy having sunny days, I've been doing this. And he gave this promo about how Brett takes wrestling too seriously. I don't need wrestling.

I like wrestling. Brett lives wrestling. And that's the problem. And blah, blah, blah. And they says, well, you've been having sunny days, which to anybody in the know, including Brett's wife, implies that Brett was sleeping with the valet named Sonny. Oh.

And that caused problems for Brett at home. It's a little out of bounds. Shhh. Oh. Shon is spiraling in his lack of self-control. Holy crow. Yeah. Like, do we know if there's...

Brett didn't have an affair with Sonny. Sonny had a crush on him. He certainly flirted with her. Matter of fact, Sean and Sonny were cheating on Sonny's husband with each other for quite some time. Wow. Yeah. So... So quite some time. Wow. Yeah.

So, So, that was projection. Yeah. Hold it. Wow. Yeah. So, all of this is happening on screen. Oh my god.

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, yeah. Yeah, yeah. I just realized that means it was actually a soap opera. Yes. Behind the scenes. Yes. The real, ear play,

going on. Oh yeah. It wasn't K-Fave, that was. Right. Wow. Yeah. And then so that it. I don't know how to process it.

Yeah, exactly. And it manifests on screen in these little snippets and vignettes, but these guys are living it. And the phrase is by this point, they had done what's called working themselves into a shoot. Now they do hate each other. Wow.

So then, they don't talk much after that. Like, you know, a few times. Then at one point, Brett goes in, uh, and now this is 97. Okay. No, this is, yeah, Mania was, yes, so this is 97. All of this is 97. Brett goes in and talks to Sean in the bathroom and they get into a fight. And Sean is just, like, I think Sean starts it by all accounts. It seems to be what happened. Um, and, uh, Brett is like, Hey, Sean, I want to talk to you. We haven't talked in a while. And Sean is just like, I think Sean starts it by all accounts. It seems to be what happened. And Brett is like, Hey, Sean, I want to talk to you. We haven't talked in a while. And Sean's like, don't even talk to me.

How dare you? And what was like what? And then Sean attacks him. Brett actually does know how to wrestle. Yeah. And Brett constantly calls it a cat fight. Okay. Because they were just grabbed each other's hair and they tussled.

And according to people who were there, they fell through a partition. And according to other people, they were tussling on the bathroom floor and people had to come and separate them. Other people say they fell through a partition. Either way, Sean comes into the office where I think Jerry Lawler and I'm pretty sure Bruce Pritchard are there with Vince McMahon having a production meeting. And Sean goes the office and slams his, a clump of his own hair down that Brett had pulled out and slams it down and says, I can't work in an unsafe work environment. This is an unsafe work environment. Now, that's a red flag word there, right? And then he leaves the show. So he knows shows the show he's advertised to be there. He gets suspended for two months. Wow. This doesn't give much in the way of, you know, a chance for these

guys to actually bury the hatchet. Now, there are a few recollections that end up going a rye. For instance, they're still working the program. Brett has the title. I think I talked to you about SummerSlam last time, right? I think so. Yeah, we're Brett spits at him. Yeah, the oysters. So Brett has, yeah, the oysters. He has a bad knee shortly thereafter. And's antagonized and so he has to kind of be off off his knee for a while To be ready for the bigger matches And so he's in a wheelchair and he's playing the chicken shit heel thing there. Yeah And he's standing there in the ring and he he stands up from his wheelchair and he's cutting a promo on Sean and he goes long

Now the problem with this is it goes off the air. It was supposed to go off the air with Sean kicking him backward into the wheelchair and then and that's supposed to be it. Instead, people saw on TV, Brett just roasting Sean and Sean didn't get anything back. Now this is after they'd reconciled. So Sean is like, I can't fucking trust this guy, you know. Oh, man. So, okay. None of the, we still haven't gotten to, you know, the actual man.

Yeah, so in October, heart goes back to Sean. This is according to heart, and tries to bury the hatchet, and he says to Sean, no matter what our problems have been, I want you to know that I will always protect you in the ring. I will always take care of you.

And if I have to job cleanly to you, I will. And Sean says I appreciate that, but I will not be jobbing to you. Now, that's October. Okay. After that heart is like, fuck this guy. I'm not jobbing to him. I'm certainly not jobbing to him in Canada.

And I'm certainly not jobbing to him. Yeah. He's huge. Now, another thing that's happened at this point is Vince McMahon has decided that he's going to take his company public in a few years. In order to do that, he has to offload some long-term liabilities, like say a 20-year contract for millions and millions of dollars. So he goes back to Brett and he says, I made a mistake and I cannot afford to pay you your

contract. Can I please get out of it? He says, and what I want you to do is go back to Eric Bischoff and see if you can get a good deal and we'll make noise that I'm trying to keep you so you can get an even better deal. Brett doesn't want to do this but he does do it. He feels very hurt by this, by honing his own account and he goes and he strikes a really good deal. I think it's $9 million over the course of three years. Okay. Gets better deal.

Okay. Signs better deal. Okay. Uh, signs the deal. Uh, and the contract that he had with Vince said that in his last 30 days on contract, he had creative control. That is, he gets to say yes or no to matches and to storylines and stuff like that so that you don't bury him on his way out. And lesson is valid. Right. Now his contract is supposed to take place on December 5th. He's supposed to start with WCW on December 5th. Right. Okay. And so now the problem is he's still got the belt. You got to get that belt off of them. We're trying to get it on Sean, but Sean has said I'm not going to return the favor. Now it's kind of a material, but fuck that guy.

And so, and they're doing a loop through Canada. And at this point, Brett is a good guy in Canada and everywhere else in the world, he's a bad guy in the United States. It's a really interesting dynamic. Huh, okay. Because he cuts all these anti-US promos, he does a lot of chicken-shit heel stuff in the US.

But when he goes to Canada, he's acting like a face. Okay. This way he could still get merchandise money. Oh, right. Okay. Yeah, that makes sense. So because you don't tend to buy merchandise for a heel. No. The last person I ever saw wearing a Greek the hammer Valentine shirt doesn't exist. It doesn't. So This gets us to November of 1997. Yeah. Now, starting on November 5th,

Brett has creative control. And so, and survivor series is between November and December. Okay. So he's got creative control, which means he keeps saying, no, now Vince McMahon is afraid that Brett is going to take the belt and go over to WCW and show it on TV, big embarrassing thing. This happened back in 1995 when Medusa, the female wrestler, the World Wrestling Federation female or women's champion, Vince was like, I have to cut the whole, you know, because

it's 95 is bad. Yeah, yeah, I have to cut the whole the whole you know because it's 95 is bad. Yeah, yeah, I have to cut the whole the whole division of women's wrestlers and She went with it so well she brought the belt with her and threw it in the trash on TV on WCW Which many say that wow many say that that started the Monday night wars, okay? so McMahon is afraid that Brett's gonna do that. And, you know, what are you doing? You're afraid someone's gonna do a thing?

You don't address it. Yeah. And these are all grown men not addressing shit. Not not communicating with each other at all. I blame the testosterone. Yeah, I would also blame the tremendous subjectivity of the money based on your cue factor with an audience. Okay.

I mean, seriously, you gotta protect yourself. I mean, okay, that makes sense. So, okay, so eventually, so they're like, how are we gonna do this? Your last night with us, you know, would have to be, and he says, I will drop the belt to Sean, not in Montreal, like, okay, we'll have about here. No, not in Canada, we'll have about Detroit. That's not gonna work for me either, because I got a lot of not in Montreal. I'm like okay well how about here? No not in

Canada. Well how about Detroit? That's not gonna work for me either because I got a lot of fans in Detroit. It's like Brett you have fans everywhere. But at the same time, here's the other thing. Sean or I'm sorry Brett went to Vince and said hey Sean just said this bullshit and what oh hell no call him in here and he calls him in. He's like I have a straightin him out And that's like I find I fucking hate being a narc, but this is bullshit And then he tells Sean he's like we're gonna put the belt on you pal It's like mother fucker like you just said you're gonna that's straight name Whip but in many ways Vince saw Brett as being part of the past Brett was part of the new generation

And that never really took off. Yeah. Sean is part of this new attitude era. It's hip, it's edgy, it's chaotic. Yeah. And you don't know what's gonna fly out of Sean's mouth because Sean doesn't know what's gonna fly out of Sean's mouth. Ha, ha, ha, ha.

So eventually it's agreed that they're going to do a run-in, a massive run-in, which is fairly chaotic, but remember ECW, they've been doing this and they've been normalizing that, so it's now a viable option. And it'll be a DQ, and then the next night Brett can come back and like tell his American fans goodbye and surrender the belt. It's not like Sean didn't surrender the belt earlier that year Right, but at the same time Sean surrendered the belt earlier that year

You don't want to push that button too many times, right? Yeah, fair enough So Vince McMahon meets with Pat Patterson and Sean Michaels and Sean Michaels Hotel room, okay, so he has that agreement with Brett now We know that he has that agreement with Brett because for the last year, Brett has had a camera crew following him around recording a documentary with all access. Vince McMahon agreed to this by the way. Oh wow. They're filming a documentary on Brett the Hitman Heart. Okay. Okay. And Brett is wired and he goes into that meeting wearing that wire so it gets recorded. Wow.

Yeah. Yeah. Okay. So, Vince McMahon agrees to a DQ finish. He's still afraid that Brett's gonna screw him, which is weird because Brett has shown no sign of doing that. Yeah, Brett is coming across as kind of the williamar show of the WWE. And he, you know, his biggest accusation is that he takes shit too seriously.

Yeah. Well, he's not and Jim Cornette, a very famous wrestling manager, historian and promoter, said he's like, there's no way that Brett is gonna expose the business. You don't have to worry about that. Which he was proven wrong after the screwdriver, because Brett exposed the business after the screwdriver. But after, look at the level of provocation. Exactly, exactly.

Yeah. But, and that was kind of his point. He's like, look what you got him to do. You know So Vince McMahon goes and meets with Pat Patterson and Sean Michaels Pat Patterson is the first internet intercontinental champion of the WF He won it in a tournament in Rio de Janeiro. Oh. This tournament never happened. They just gave Pat this belt and I think 1979 or 81, something like that.

And that was pretty much it. It's like we need a second tier belt essentially. Okay. Because World Champion, Intercontinental Champion. Okay. Right? Yeah. So Pat Patterson was the first Intercontinental Champion. Okay. Right. Yeah. Pat Patterson was the first Intercontinental champion. Pat Patterson.

Okay. Pat Patterson was also the, uh, the, uh, the, the referee for the Hulk Hogan, Mr. T versus Roddy Piper, uh, and Paul Orndorfndorf, main event of the first WrestleMania. Okay. Paterson had retired by that point. Now Paterson is a phenomenal wrestler. He also is openly, well, he's dead now, but he was openly gay behind the scenes, never on camera.

Oh, yeah. Okay. And someday I'm going to do a gender studies episode Episode about this because queerdom is really interesting and wrestling. I mean, I mean first off There's so much latent homo eroticism just involved and you know half naked greased up dudes. Thank God for it So oh I loved when Randy Orton was ascended. I really did Oh, I loved when Randy Orton was ascended. I really did. I mean, don't get me wrong. Trish Shraddish is hot and Lita is the fucking bombshell, but Randy Orton was so fun to look at. I wasn't too far from his age either, so, but there

were wrestlers. So was that an era of self discovery for you? Oh, no, I'd known for years. Oh no, I'm not. Okay, hell no. That was 2004. Okay, well you know, but- It was on my way to get it. Yeah.

You speak about it like it was transformative. Oh no, no, it was, you know, affirmative. Okay, okay, all right. Formidable, yeah. Formidable, yeah. Yeah, very firming. Um, but- So.

Yeah. So. Yeah. Yeah, yeah, very firming. Um, but so So back now. Yeah, yeah Pat Patterson was gay Never in the ring never on stage never in public, but all the boys knew Adrienne Adonis was straight as an arrow Very queer coded Adriana Donnis was straight as an arrow, very queer-coded.

Really? Yeah. Well, originally he and Jesse the body venturro were a tag team and then he let himself get fat and then I'll show you pictures of Adriana Donnis. It's goddamn hilarious, but he would have moved to the ring. So every time you have a character who's queer coded, he's a bad guy. But if you're gay, you're going to play it straight and you're going to be a good guy.

Well, Pat Patterson was actually a villain quite often, in the beginning of it. But either way, he still was, you know, not a villain because he was queer. Anyway, so Pat Patterson is a long time official in the WWF, and more importantly, he is a long time creative official. He's like the head writer basically in the WWF. He could come up with... He's the reason that the Royal Rumble exists. He came up with the idea.

He comes up with the most creative finishes. He's amazing, right? And he's fantastic. Now, he also has a very sorted history of sexual abuse of the ring boys and things like that. I can't talk about him without talking about those things. It's goddamned awful. And it's amazing how well Vince protected him. how well Vince protected him. You know, the thing is people are very complex. Yeah. And to be gay at that time, by no means is that an excuse, but to be gay and out at that time,

the amount of shit that you have to deal with up until you accept that in yourself can be deformative. Yeah. It can be,, can twist one. And also people in power tend to exercise that power in shitty ways. Yes. So I mean, he is a complex character. Okay. Uh, now he and, uh, Vince meet with Sean in the dressing room and they say,

okay, we're going to do a screw job on Brett. And Vince is very clear of like, you tell no one that you were a part of this, I want you to act like you didn't know anything about it. To to the audience to everyone, to the boys in the back, to Brett, to anybody who asks you don't ever admit to it. Sean to Sean. Yeah, Sean, you don't know anything about this.

Yes. Now, right needs come to me and Sean's like, yeah, but I'm know anything about this. Yes. Now, right, needs to come to me. And Sean's like, yeah, but I'm the guy in the fucking ring. But so just just think about how many layers and twist about this is a fake combat, right? Right. Um, with a, but they're going to change the outcome for real. Yeah.

But they're gonna betray a guy for real, but then pretend that the guy doing the betraying didn't do the betraying. So that the, so that the heat winds up not going on to the guy that actually did disgrowing, but onto the guy holding the screwdriver. As it were, and at this point, Vincent McMahon is tacitly acknowledged as the promoter, but

for the most part, he'd just been a, uh, uh, an answer. So then you got that extra layer, also that's one of the, uh, contrived combatants doesn't go to another federation with the belt. Yeah. And show it there. It's just it's so it's it's it's and it's meta upon meta. It is it's life-imitated art which then imitated life which then imitated art which is then going to imitate life which is then going to change the art which is then going to change the life, which is then going to change the life, which is you're just like, it's beyond postmodernists. Yeah, thank you. Exactly that. Yeah. So now they also bring the following people into it and not that many others. Gerald Briscoe. Gerald Briscoe is another official for the W.O. who's a talent scout for the longest time. He is famous for saying to Chris

Candido, a wrestler who was in jail briskos, you know, at this time he was in his 60s. Maybe older. He had been a tag team champion with his brother Jack brisco and Jack brisco had been a N.W.A. World champion in the 70s. Okay. So Gerald and Jack were tag team champions and I think they were heels, but they were so incredibly skillful. And Gerald famously said to somebody, because Chris is like, you're gonna try to hook me.

He's like, Chris, if I wanted to hook you, I had to hook you. He's this old old man that you just don't fuck with. Right? So Gerald Brisco was in on it. That's not the guy you want to have against you. No, I'd like this. Yeah, okay.

And so he's in on it too. He gets brought in on it because you need a few more complices and there's the idea of on your way out you do the job. And that's where these guys can bury their moral compass a bit. Brett wasn't willing to do the job, therefore. And by the way, Triple H also suggested, fuck that guy.

If he doesn't want to do business, we do business for him. And that's what got the ball rolling. Gerald Brisco also was trying to figure out how to do it. So they're all agreed. And by the way, there's another guy, Paul Remus, I think his name is, you might know him as Sergeant Slotter. Wow.

He was also involved in this, right? Okay. And it's just a little bit of coordination and having more bodies out there to stop any kind of reprisal. Okay. It's not bodyguards with baseball bats, but it's very respected elders. Go.

Who are traditionalists? Who are protecting Vince McMahon and his interests now. So now the problem is, how are you going to do it? Okay, you have to figure out the how and the when. Not just that, you're going to do it. Notice there's no referee involved in this yet. Go. Okay.

Now, Hart goes to the guy he knows is going to be the referee, Earl Hebner. Earl Hebner has been around for a long time. He's very well respected. He goes to him. He says, I got a feeling they're going to screw me. I just want you to look out for me. They've been friends for years. Earl says, Brett, I swear on my children. I'm not going to be a part of anything like that. I got you. That's earlier in the day. Later in the day, Sean goes up to him. Now, there's two accounts, Earl Hebner, who has kind of proven himself to be unreliable as a narrator. He said that somebody pulled him aside 10 minutes before the match and Vince told him, you're going to do this. Sean Michael says, no, I went to him earlier that evening and told him,

we're going to do this. Either way, after he talked to Brett, he then was told, you're going to screw Brett. Heart and Sean are trying to figure out the match. They're putting it together and like, okay, what spots do you want to do? What do you want to do? And they've already agreed on the DQ finish. There's going to be a bunch of run-ins. It's going to be ECW layers of chaos. But there's this really cool spot and Sean and Brett's like, why don't you put me in my hold? And then I'll reverse it on you. And at that moment, Sean and Briscoe both know that's our kill switch. So the match is going to really good match. Actually, it's a lot of it's great match. I mean, there's tons of heat on Sean. He plays it up really, really well.

This is pre-back injury Sean. So he's able to do a lot of stuff. And he and Brett had really good chemistry. Heart is laying down there. By the way, a few minutes before they get to that spot, there's a point where the ref gets bumped. And then Vince comes out and so does Gerald Briscoe. And Pat Patterson's hanging out in the back. And Serge Slotter comes out there, which is weird. And Brett kind of looks and he's like, the fuck is going on here. And it's still that cognitive dissonance of this can't be happening.

So he goes on with the match. He's laying on his back and Sean goes to put him in his move. And Sean doesn't know how to do the move. So Brett actually shouting up up to him. No, you got to get my other leg and he gives him his other leg and Sean finally gets the move on So talk about like just a Shakespearean level of tragedy. Yeah Sean gets Brett in the hold and he's supposed to put his leg back a little but he doesn't. So Brett is reaching back and kind of scrambling and he's like, okay, well Sean forgot. And he finally and Earl Hebner basically goes, yeah, yeah, yeah, ring the bell, ring the bell.

And you hear Vince going, ring that fucking bell. And they ring the bell, they play Sean's music. Right as they do that, Brett grabs Sean's leg and starts pulling him up. And then Sean, you know, everything is happening just in seconds. Brett is stunned. And he's got like this smile of like mother fucker, you know.

Sean runs to the back, Joe, Brezko grabs him, gets him the belt, and runs him to the back. Earl Hebner has already left. Well yeah. He literally runs out. There is a car waiting for him with the engine running. He drives to the hotel and stays in his room with the phone off the hook for the entire night. Wow. Out of the days, by the way, when you had phones that would, you know, sit in a cradle. Yes. Yes. And you could, you could, sit in a cradle. Yes. Yes.

And you could make yourself unreachable. Yes. By doing that. Um, wow. So Sean is looking pissed. Like he doesn't, and he's like, what the fuck happened? Brett, you mean? No, Sean looks like that.

Oh. Because he's doing what Vince told him. Oh. Brett looks around. And at this point in the back Because Davy Boy Smith the British Bulldog and Owen Hart in the back because they're supposed to run out in Jim I heard they're supposed to run out in interfere and then they're like looking at the monitors and they're like and Davy Boy because they just fuck Brett So

So. So they come out and Brett is pissed and he hawks again him with the spit. He spits right in Vince McMahon's eye. Oh, wow. And he says, fuck you. You know, it spits right in his eye. And then he goes out and just starts destroying monitors and shit. He gets back in the ring. and I might have reversed that. And he basically draws with his finger in the air WCW.

Because that's where he's going and sledding people now. Wow. These guys, I don't know the minute, you know. Gives the I love you and goes back. Now he gets back there and Sean is in the dressing room. And Brett comes in and he's like, did you know about this and Sean's like I swear on my children. I have no I don't think he had children as God is my witness. Okay. Yeah, you know something something to that effect Yeah, actually he might have had kids by then

Anyway, but whatever it was he yeah, yeah, yeah, he spoke powerful oaths. Yes Swarm that he had nothing to do with it. Yes, um and And Brett basically says, okay, well, if we'll see tomorrow on tomorrow what you do, that'll tell me. And which again, Brett's taking things a little too seriously as far as that part goes, but I mean, he's got good instincts.

Yeah. Undertaker. Remember Undertaker? Yeah. He saw what happened. He's like fuck this. So he goes to Vince. He's like, what the hell did you just do? The thing is Undertaker is so well respected in the locker room by this time and has a good rapport with Vince. Vince answers to him a bit when he comes in confronts him. He's like, you have to go and you need to make this right with Brett. You don't get to do that. You've just destroyed everything with the boys.

And Vince says, look, here was my reasoning. I don't like it. I don't expect you to like it. But I had to do it to protect the business. The problem with wrestlers is, some day that'll be my boot stamping my competition in the face. And I like to lick it clean first, right? So wrestlers tend to side with the business,

even though the business chooses them up and spits them out. But takeer forces Vince to go and confront Brett. And Vince talks himself into it and he's got his son there and he's got Gerald Brisco there and I think Pat Patterson's there and he goes into the locker room where Brett's changing and Brett's like you screwed me And and Vince is like Brett, you know, I just I I want to explain what happened And I've always like there's nothing to explain and he says I'm gonna go take a shower And then I'm gonna get dressed and if you're still here I'm knocking your ass out

goes in takes a shower comes out vince is still there gets dressed finishes tying up his shoes he even says I remember lacing my shoes going okay here we go oh shit he knocks vince the fuck out. Wow. One shot. Boom. Done. Now there's varying accounts of this, right? Now what's really interesting is a lot of this ends up on the wrestling with shadows

documentary. But when Vince walks in, Brett tells the camera guys, you guys need to turn it off. Brett tells the camera guys, turn this off and they do. So there's a documentary filming the backstage of the you know with the and so let's just add three more layers. Let's add a Madonna, Truth or Dare layer to all of us, you know. So he knocks out Brett Vince. He gives him a shiner, gives him a black eye, and Vince gets his ankle sprained because apparently Gerald Briscoe stepped on his ankle. In the frack of the outfit.

Yeah. And so that's essentially how it happens, right? So that's the screw job. Wow. Yeah. So it's just a wild chance that all of this happened while there was a film crew to deal with it all. That's it's nice. Like you wouldn't believe it if anybody wrote a description. Right. Crazy. Now at the end of it all, I'd like to take stock. Brett Hart was a traditionalist and he was the standard bearer of the new generation.

Which as we discussed, as you pointed out, and it lucidated, it was the last episode, was that like, okay, new generation, not really that new, but doing something deeply derivative with different colors, you know, and claiming to be new, but using a traditionalist as its standard bearer. Yeah.

So, he gets screwed for upholding tradition. Yeah. Get's blamed for not upholding tradition, because you're supposed to do the honors. Yeah, okay. And he then goes to the now more traditional audience WCW to join the group there that's made up of traditional wrestlers who'd predated or been contemporaries of him

in the WWF as main eventers who were posing as new blood who had come in as iconic class against their traditionalists who were already in WCW by mostly beating up new wrestlers. Would you like me to say it again? No. Wow.

Yeah. Okay, yeah. Feel free to hit the scrub backward button on this, you know. Yeah, go back and go back and listen to that every time you need it. Draw some cards, you know, to the, yeah. Or, no, I think at this point, what it actually needs is a cork board.

Yeah. It's photos, threads, yeah. Now afterward, okay, so Brett is out of the WWF. By the way, his contract doesn't start until December 5th, which I think is like the next week. Yeah. The very next night on WCW, CWCW stepped on his dick so many times. And this is yet another time.

They have everybody in there for like 10 minutes trying to sing the Canadian National Anthem, talking about how great it is to have Brett coming in. And Brett's not even in the building because he doesn't start until the fifth. And it's a do nothing go nowhere. Lack of creative creative very lazy. We need to mention that Vince got punched.

So afterwards yeah that's that's rooted entirely in you know the whole experiment being based on Ted Turner wanting to eat Vince McMahon's lunch. I still think that it's actually more Eric Bischoff than Ted Turner at this point. Okay, but yes, but it. But the motive is the same. Yes. You know, now afterward Vince McMahon goes on camera, I don't want to say the next night because I think that was recorded,

but the following week, okay? So two weeks later, he goes on camera and gets interviewed by Jim Ross, who is going to be the voice of the attitude era, even though he is an old traditional Southern wrestling. God, it's just so weird how, yeah. So, and he talks about how Bret Hart didn't respect the business or the traditions of the business.

And this is where Bret's screwed, Bret. Yes, yes. It's wild to hear this coming from the guy who revolutionized the business by nationalizing it. And yet at heart, he's very much a traditional promoter in many ways. However, on the very important existential and business levels, he's not a traditionalist, right? When he was asked if he's a wrestling promoter, he once said, well, that's what

my father did. We make movies. So I get that point. You didn't have movie studio. Yeah. But he's trying to separate himself from the thing that he is traditionally, it's, I could do a whole episode just on the rise of McMahon

as a character. Now I mean the Mr. McMahon character, not Vince McMahon. Okay. Okay, which again, blurred realities. I mean, Jack Derry Dodd is weird. I mean, jock Dairy Dye is weird. So yeah, okay. So I wanna do those episodes. Okay. Sure.

That's fascinating to me. Yeah. Now suffice to say for now that Vince McMahon blindly wandered into the stone cold Steve Austin, degeneration X and Mr. McMahon characters. He fell over backward into it. He did not plan this out. It was not a long-term plan. It Mr. McMahon, Mr. McMahon characters. He fell over backward into it. He did not plan this out. It was not a long-term plan. It was, oh, okay, because he thought, he thought that he was going to come off as the good guy going on there with his black

and die, going on there saying Brett screwed Brett and all that kind of stuff. He didn't kind of, doesn't understand his own fans. Miss red the room. Yeah. Wow. And then he caught on. Now, once he caught on, he went full gusto. Well, because lean into it. Yeah. Yeah. But he didn't get it. And similarly, in WCW, Eric Bischoff, one I'd walked into the N.W.O. And the ratings juggernaut that it brought about, like he kind, I mean, he stole an idea

from Japan and he's like, let's give this a shot, but he didn't quite know how to get there. And then it just kind of, so neither promoter did a good job. And despite themselves, they were able to find success not doing a good job doing basically the same thing. Now this leads us to the December 15th promo in 1997 where Vince McMahon comes out and names what he is going to do. He calls out that he's going to let the chaos run him in the hopes that he could keep one hand on the wheel. He couched it in terms of acceptable, that were, of terms of

acceptability to the audience. Okay. So again, I would point out this is 1997. You remember WCW pioneered the chaos and then WCW and WWF flirted with it and then kind of backed over into using it. Yeah. Well, and they got kind of pushed in that direction by everything that ECW had done. Had no power. And yet, it was able, through tactical choices, to make strategic choices. Yeah.

So he said, surely the era of superhero urging you to say your prayers and take your vitamins is definitely passe. I mean, a direct shot to Hulk Hogan. Wow. A direct repudiation of Hulkomania. The old way, which itself was not, which, which is a new way. Right. And by extension, he's, he's blasting WCW. It's kind of the billionaire Ted skits again. He says, even though we call ourselves sports entertainment because of the athleticism involved, the keyword in that phrase is entertainment. It's not the pretense of rules that drives what happens in the ring. And it's not the pretense of the wrestling that keeps anything in the ring. It's all about entertainment as though it hadn't been before.

Which is just really, really something, okay? He's basically throwing K-fabe under the bus. Yeah, now the pretense of the rules part is my quote. I'm sorry I didn't change my voice back to Damien voice, but yeah, the keyword in that phrase is entertainment. So not the pretense of rules, not the architecture of the ring, not keeping the action in the ring, and it's not the pretense of wrestling anymore

because you have a lot more back stage skits. It's all about the entertainment, even though before it was about the entertainment, but it was within these rules. Now by now, it's not a genre no longer pleasing the fans. It's changing to get the fans back and then stay on top and calling that fan service. And Vince McMahon is trying to have it both ways. It's not just the chaos simply taking him over, it's the attempt of those in power to control the new shifts and direct them comfortably but have all the trappings of what change was coming. He said, and I quote, we are responsible television producers who work hard to bring you this outrageous, wacky, wonderful world known

as a WWF. He said this when he was referencing whether or not parents should exercise parental control on Saturday mornings like he was encouraging them to do on Monday nights. He's like Monday nights, you might want to exercise some parental discretion. Saturday mornings, we're still good. Okay.

So keeping one hand on the wheel, trying to steer it. Are you okay? So, I think that's, I'll go a little bit more, but we're going to stop before we get to the DX. So at this point, the members, no, actually, let's go back a little bit. The following year, 1998, as I pointed out before, shows factoring up of wrestling. And it takes a depold and lasts through the 2000s. The anti-hero approach of Stone Cold Steve Austin was fully ascendant by 1998. He wins at WrestleMania 14 against Sean Michaels. Oh wow. Okay.

Uh, and the Austin era was born. Right. Uh, you had someone in power despite who the man in charge wanted to have in power. Yes. Uh, and he Austin didn't give a shit about your rules or your conventions and he's the ones during the ship now He broke all the rules. He took the fights outside of the rings as often as possible and he was vicious I what's the phrase? There aren't very many people that are good at what I do or something like that

I'm the best at what I do and what I do isn't very nice. It's got a very Wolverine feel to it. You've got a very Wolverine feel to it. He was a constant in his behavior too. He was shitty but cool, especially in contrast to the boss, the corporate boss, the boss who was trying to run everything in machinations behind the screen. It's 1998. He's setting himself up as the anti-hero to the guy who's in charge. Yeah. Definitely appealing to a and very working class. He's from Victoria, Texas, technically he's from Edna, Texas, but he's from Texas. He's very much appealing to this self-ascribed identity

of people who don't like that Bill Clinton is slick Willie. At this point, the members of Degeneration X hadn't changed any of how they wrestled either. The new age outlaws were still heels, but they had a great calling response intro. You hear this do-do-do-do, oh, you didn't know?

And then the whole audience says it with them and you're like yo ask better call somebody it's so fun so they have this Colin response intro even though the arrests are like chicken shit heels and vicious heels the audience loves them and they're telling the people to suck it and in in this, yeah, the cross chops, because that's an X. Yeah, okay. All right. And suck it. Okay. Yeah. So that, that crossed over into professional bowling. Oh my God. There was, there was, there was, there's a documentary that almost looks like one of the mockumentaries, you know, a mighty win. Yeah, yeah. That's that's about the bowling.

Sure. And one of one of the guys is this, you know, he's solidly, you know, a championship level pro bowler. Sure. But he winds up creating a persona for himself. God dammit. That is when When was this? Clearly, this must have been, I don't know, 99, 2000. I'm gonna have to, yeah, I'd have to look it up.

So you create a persona for yourself. You are a step removed from your own reality so that it enhances your reality. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And you imitate pro wrestling to do it, which is the ultimate of that. Yeah, yeah. And, and, yeah, the and you imitate pro wrestling to do it. Yeah, which is the ultimate of that. Yeah. Yeah. And Yeah, yeah, at some point I'll have to look it up. Yeah. Yeah. I'll have to mention it. But yeah Okay, so there there's an actual match where the the new age outlaws are fighting against a group called the new midnight express

Okay, the new midnight express is a flaxet appeal to tradition. It is because the midnight express were these amazing wrestlers from the 80s. So it's the new midnight express. Okay. Which anytime you're called the new of something, unless it's your, you know, unless it's the new age outlaws or the new world order, by the way, notice what keeps getting bandied about the word new. Yeah. But unless you are the new, that's something that's original. It's a kiss of death. So the new midnight express said suck it, trying to mock the new age outlaws, and the entire audience was silent.

Oh, that's bad. The crowd was fully behind the new age outlaws, even though they were bad guys. Now the New Age Outlaws were anti-heroes who stayed constant with their behavior, and they were shitty but cool. They broke the rules, and they were vicious. A couple months earlier at WrestleMania, they'd participated in a dumpster match against cactus Jack and Chainsaw Charlie. Chainsaw Charlie is also known as Terry Funk. Oh, wow.

Okay. The match was you have to put these guys in a dumpster and close the lids on them, which doesn't occur in the ring at all. And the reason for this match, by the way, is because a few weeks earlier, Chainsaw Charlie and Cactus Jack, who were partners, decided to have a hardcore match against each other and they were up on the top of the ramp and Cactus jumped off a ladder into the dumpster onto Chainsaw Charlie and then the new age outlaws came and pushed them 15 feet off the stage. Oh shit.

So that's why that's what set up this match. But notice at WrestleMania, you have a match that exists entirely outside of the ring again. So these guys were vicious and like I said, they'd had their chainsaw, they had their dumpster match. And yet they still got cheered and by 1998, this is the landscape. You look like you're gonna say something. Well, okay, so you talk about a dumpster match involving these guys. Yes.

Hold on a sec. Okay, and by the way, I'm gonna stop it there because the next year is even crazier. gonna stop it there because the next year is even crazier. Let's see, anyway, there's, I've mentioned it before, but you talk about a dumpster match. And in talking about Stone Cold Steve Austin, I mentioned that farce game, the science fiction series, John Crrichton notably

He does and became phrase within within within the fandom. Can I get a hell yeah, right? There's actually an episode in which he's wrestling with the big bad Big bad villain in his own head figuratively wrestling sure, but at one point He throws him into a dumpster, slams the lid shut. No shits. Can I get a hell yeah? So you're mixing a little bit there, but not by much.

Yeah. Yeah. So anyway, you mentioned that and I'm like, wait, wait, no, wait, I got to hold on. Yeah, yeah. Okay. So I'm done for this episode. Okay. It was almost entirely about the Montreal screw job. Yes, which I am going to point out again

the Montreal screw job was a work that worked itself and do a shoot that then acted like a work that then became a shoot which then led to more work like it is so multilayered. Yeah. In terms of the postmodernism aspects of it because all of this is right. Oh, but we know that they know that we know and one of the reasons for this is because the dirt sheets and the internet are kind of big. So you're starting to get smart fans and they're called smart marks. Okay.

And now people are starting to book with those fans in mind of like we have to swerve them and 98, we're gonna get to the swerves. But yeah. So everybody acknowledges that it's K-fabe. And yet we're still gonna swerve you on the K-fabe that you already acknowledges K-fabe. And you won't see it coming even though you'll see it coming because you've seen it coming before but you won't see it. We're working to script it more like a traditional television series.

Yes. Where, okay, you've been watching all the way up here and now the twist. Yes. You okay. But, oh, we need more ratings next week because we just, you know, we had to, we were preempted by the Westminster Dog Kennel Club. So that happens, by the way, a lot. Uh, fucking USA, man. And WCW was preempted by the NBA finals because TNT had the NBA finals, you know? So, yeah, which is real competitions, a dog competition,, but still competition. Yeah, and a Preempting the scripted

Contrives but these guys are absolutely real athletes. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, so What'd you glean from that? I'm still kind of reeling over the level to which life imitates art. Mm-hmm. When you're working in an environment where your job consistently involves stoking fake drama. Mm-hmm. I mean, K-5 drama.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. It's contrived. Yeah, contri fake drama. I mean, K-5 drama. Yeah, yeah, yeah. It's contrived. Yeah, contrived drama. You know, and you're essentially doing a soap opera for folks who like a lot more violence and a lot less overt, semi overt sex. Oh, when we get into the 2000s, there's actually a live sex show. Oh, when we get into the 2000s, there's actually a live sex show. Oh,

K. Yeah, complete with a nip slip by accident actually edge one, the uh, championship, and he celebrates by having sex with Lita, um, in, in a bed in the middle of the ring. I mean, they're not actually fucking, but they go under the covers and he like, Lita's actually naked under there. Oh, wow. And then Ric Flair interrupts it because if there's one person to kill your boner. It'd be Ric Flair. Woo!

But yeah, that happens in the 2000s. Holy. There was also a tag team, not a tag team so much as a couple of guests of Eric Bischoff, who by the way ends up working for WWF, which at that point is called WWE, but he becomes a commissioner and he forces Stephanie McMahon to kiss the lesbians.

Wow. Oh yeah. Oh yeah, so there's actually like, you can get a screen cap of the lesbians. Onions, onions have fewer layers of shitty, yeah, because Vincent McMahon is booking all this by the way His own daughter. Oh, it gets worse like he he books it where Eric Bischoff Kisses and makes out with Linda McMahon

His rival is kissing his wife at his behest behind the camera It gets wild. Whoa, my God. Okay. So, so, so. Proving your point. Just, yes, is that much more, think about how immensely uncomfortable and like dysfunctional that has to make thanksgiving at the man household.

Oh yeah, oh yeah. Like, I mean, you know, and so just the extent to which the soap opera nature of it actually bleeds over into, no, no, no, see, all of that is contrived, but it's knock on effects are actually real. Yeah. And like, how? Which then affect the contrivedness.

Yeah. Yeah. How fucked up must everybody wind up being like, you'd have to be a Zen master to remain a well-balanced emotional individual. These are facts for like oh my god. Yeah. Okay. All right.

That's pretty much that's my takeaway. Well, what do you want people to read or watch? Besides that farcecape episode, actually. Yeah. Number one, check out farcecape because it's amazing. And as far as read, I am going to once again ask everybody to please read Don't please read Don't because it is it is coming. Yeah, it is coming. And what I would recommend is actually a history book, the greatest night by Thomas Asperg. Okay. It is a biography.

This is the reason I mentioned William Marshall in passing. It's a biography of William Marshall. And what you talk about about, you know, Vince McMahon screwing all these people over and these people remaining loyal to him, there are parallels to Marshall and John, England. The only one with his name because he was such a shitty king. Yes.

I've never been a king of England to carry that name since. Right. Right. So yeah. Anyway, pick it up. Thomas Asperger, the greatest night. It's a great book. How about you?

I'm going to tell people to watch a couple different documentaries. We're going to keep it on the not so tragic side. We're going to walk. Okay. Yeah. So, which which then I'm gonna mention these. It does, then I'm gonna mention these and you'll be like, shit, there's tragic ones and the answer is yes. So the vice has a series called The Dark Side of the Ring. Watch the one on the Montreal Screw Drop,

mostly for the commentary by Jim Cornett. He's kind of the star of that one. I don't recall Brett being interviewed for that, although he might have. There have been so many things that I've seen of Brett. So the other one I want you to watch is the fabulous Mula episode. Now, one you've seen both of those and then you realize I said those aren't the tragic ones. Just recognize that I meant it. Wow. And it gets way bad. Yeah. So those are what I recommend. Okay. Yeah. Where can people find you on social medias? I can be found on Twitter at EH Blalock. I can be found on Instagram and TikTok as Mr. Blalock. And where can they find you if they wanna locate you?

Yeah, you can find me on Twitch.tv for slash capital puns, pretty much every Tuesday night, either doing a pun show or playing games with my pun panions. Punpanions? Yeah, that works. Punpanions. Punpanions.

Punpanions. Yeah, punpanions. Yeah. He was the fifth most annoying musketeer, punpanions. Yeah, that works. Punpanions. Pun. Yeah. Yeah. Punpanions. Yeah. He was the fifth most annoying musketeer. Punpanion. Oh nice. Yeah. But you could find me there. You could find me right here on this podcast. Obviously. You could also find me at duh harmony on both the Twitter and the Insta. You could find me on twitch.tv-iMacPun, which is the channel, and honestly, there's a YouTube channel called Accels Your Gaming, Marvel Strike Force, 99 Problems But A Stitcher Ain't One. All of those will get you to our channel, which is a lot of fun where we talk about Marvel Strike Force, the game.

Goddamn, that should be enough. Although I have toy with the idea of creating an only fans where All I do is like mundane housework and there's no sexual overtones at all. It's just my fat ass doing mundane housework for a minute at a time you would find people I

Think that's a money maker. I because the dad bod is in and Men doing chores is so rare that I will carve that niche. You just very well. I might that's true So yeah, all right. I think I'll call it working hard So then people will expect there to be sexual in you and oh and then and I will never pay it off Yeah, never. Yeah. Okay.

So, all right, and where can they find our show? If you want to shout at us because I have said something completely brainless about sparkly, sparkly murder gymnastics, or if Damien got a date wrong somewhere in the middle of his timeline. If I dishonored Gerald Briscoe to you. Yeah, yeah, you can, any of those. Or anything else for that matter, you can find us at Geek History Time on the Twitter machine. Yeah, also we have a webpage.

We do. Geek History Time. Yeah, so go check that out. Yes. And of course, please, if you haven't subscribed already, first off, TeleFriend, and have them subscribe as well, then you subscribe, and then give us a review. Click that five stars that you know that we've earned, and also give us a review. The more people talk about it, the more chatter we get, the better it is for

our algorithms. So, all right, well, for a geek history of time, I'm Damien Harmony. And I'm Ed Blalock, and until next time, keep rolling 20s.