A Geek History of Time - Episode 122 - Squirrel Girl

Episode Date: August 28, 2021

So thank you all for coming to Cocktalk. He has trouble counting change, which is what the hands think. Wait, wait, stop. Yes, but I don't think that Dana Carvey's movie, um, coming out at that same time, was really that big a problem for our country. I still don't know why you're making such a big deal about September 11th, 2001. Fucking hate you. Well, you know, they don't necessarily need to be anathema, but they are definitely on different ends of the spectrum.

Oh boy, how do you say I have a genetic predisposition against redheads. So because you are one, yeah, combustion, yeah, we've heard it before. The only time I change a setting is when I take the hair trimmer down to the nether reaches, like that's the only time. Other than that, it's all just a two. I'm joking, I use feet. After the four Gospels, what's the next book of the Bible? Acts.

Okay, and after that, it's Romans. It's a drug. Yeah, okay, and if you look at the 15th chapter of Romans, okay, you will find that it actually mentions the ability to arm yourself That's why worth it. This is a keyk test for you guys. Here we connect Mercury to the real world. This is Ed Laylock, the world history teacher here in the Indian Millionth California. I'm excited about the question. And recently I managed to get good enough good good in uh, call of the

these at the last time and you and I had a shotgun duel I actually came out ahead you beat me I actually came out it by one kill

you beat me but it's enough yeah so, um, the good news is yay I'm getting better the bad news is this means that you

and producer George and I will be like, okay, I know we're not. No, no, yeah, balls to the wall, full throttle. Whatever. Whatever. Also reported that you'd beat him as well. So I got close. He said that you actually did not know.

Okay, all right. I don't, I don't remember, I might not, I might have blocked it because I didn't believe it was real But yeah So anyway, that's my big news What do you got going on who are you? I'm Damien Harmony. I am a Latin and drama teacher up here in Northern California No big news, which I'm happy about but I will say that I now have cleared out all of this tyrofoam and cardboard from my TV purchase from a few months back from my garage finally.

That's the tip of it out. That's an accomplishment. It is. I'm just going to say, because I've seen the TV, and that's like view screen of the original enterprise size television right there. Yeah, you should find that background. Oh my god, that's a project tomorrow. That's going to be cool.

Yeah. So yeah, no, but getting getting rid of all that packing material is a thing. Well, and I have one of the smaller garbage cans because there's just me and the kids. Yeah. And you know, the kids are here half the time. So, I don't need to be- I don't need to be- I don't need to be that much garbage, yeah. Except when you do. Yeah, so instead I- So did you hold that to the dump yourself? No, no, I've been breaking it down into small pieces and putting it in the garbage. Oh, okay.

Little by little. So finally, finally, finally. Finally it's gone. So yeah, I guess that's my biggest news. But you know, that's meaningful. Yeah, I'll say it. I'll say it. I'll say it. Hey, I think I know the's my biggest news. But you know, that's meaningful. Yeah, I'll say it. That's the thing. I'll say it.

Hey, I think I know the answer to this question. Okay. Ask it anyway. How do you, how do you, it's an audio medium? Yeah, a good point. How do you like your, your, your anti-heroes? How do I like my anti-heroes? Yeah, you like anti-heroes?

You like Wolverine? Yeah. Well, you know that. Come on, we've talked about like anti-heroes? You like Wolverine? Yeah. Well, you know that. Come on, we've talked about that a lot. You like pretty stories? Played like realistic stories? Hi, realistic, sure. Gritty, sure, not like we're going to be

gritty for the sake of being gritty. OK. But having, having, looking at a dark side of things, looking at a darker angle Engaging in a little bit of playing in a minor key kind of yeah, okay, that's cool How do you like Swinging wildly in the opposite direction? Give me more

Like like light me up scroll Squirrel girl. Fuck yeah. Squirrel girl. Yeah, it's time. Yeah, okay. It is time. Okay, because here's the deal. When you ask me, how do you like your anti-heroes? Like, okay, I like me some anti-heroes.

Like, you know, give me a and war detective character. And I'm there. I'm down for it. I like that genre, which you don't. Right. But the 90s were a very special decade. And that pendulum and that pendulum swung way for. Yes. In the direction of like, you're you're dipped in syrup and then cornmeal like yeah it was a leaf blower on the beach yeah and blew it up people's shorts like how much grit do you want there yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah so much grit it was a sandblaster

yeah we're gonna we're gonna pumice your bones you know yeah it was pretty bad and and also you know it was a period of time during which comic characters in many cases didn't have feet which is ironic because so you know when you have more grit on the ground you anti-heroes can gain traction you'd think except they don't have feet it's a weird time because because because in a foreign yeah, you know, yeah They're in and Liebman I think was this yeah Julie Lieberman Lee anyway. Yeah, different lightest door. Yeah anyway. Yeah, so Liefield probably field. Thank you. Liefield. Yeah. No Joe Lieberman ran for vice president. Yeah

Didn't do I think previously he'd been the dad on elf for a vice president. Yeah. Didn't do well. I think previously he'd been the dad on Elf. Yeah. Like, he looked like it. Go listen to Joel Lieberman talk, and then go listen to an episode of Elf, and you're kind of there.

Yeah. Yeah, you're not wrong. So, yeah, you have, in this time of no feat, Antihiro is gaining a lot of traction due to the grit. We've talked about it in the context of wrestling, of course. But comics were also prone to it. And I certainly delved into that. Some of it was in part a reaction to the two,

the not the two, to the non big two companies gaining attention from fans. Yeah. And comics, honestly, just comics in general. Alan Moore's Watchman in 86 to 87, V for Vendetta was wrapping up in 89. And really, this is called the Iron Age of comics. And it had antecedents in the 70s,

but really it began, it's a scent in the age of the X-Men's dark phoenix saga. Yeah. And even though we commonly refer to the Iron Age, starting in the mid 80s, you can see clear rumblings in that specific storyline and resolution of the Dark Phoenix saga. Yeah.

You killed a character. Yeah, she did. She, she, she done committed genocide too. Yeah. Like your solution is to kill her. That's gritty. Like you're starting to see it. Yeah. Like your solution is to kill her. That's gritty. Like you're starting to see it. Yeah. And this, and also you see the increase of grit in the increased popularity of the X-Men, because one of the reasons they get more popular is because there are no clear good solutions

anymore. Yeah, it's a, the ambiguity, the moral ambiguity and the moral complexity. I don't even necessarily want to say the ambiguity. Moral complexity of what the X-Men were trying to do and who it was, the X-Men were fighting, and the fact that they were heroes who were fighting against both sides. And they constantly had to make these choices about, you know.

And there's shitty choices that they have to make. Yeah, yeah. It's not ambiguous. There's clear moral choices. Yeah. And none of them are good ones. Yeah, and yeah, yeah. And you don't get easy satisfaction from anyone.

Right. It's basically trolleyism, but with spandex. But with both spandex and mutant powers. Yeah. So in the end, X-Men series, the clues care, Chris Claremont, and John Byrne, the younger brother. When we talked about the talking,

oh yeah, that too. But yeah, when we talked about the history of the X-Men, they had taken that title into space and beyond. And more importantly, they brought the gravity of Hero heroics home to rest by engaging in the dark phoenix saga. Yeah. The comics had gotten progressively darker in many ways reflecting the urban blight that was gripping most major cities in the late 70s and early 80s. And because of the creative tension between Jim Shooter and Chris Claremont. The ultimate decision was made to kill Gene Gray, who'd grown out of control. Some of this was because the writers wrote themselves

into a corner. Yeah. I think a lot of it is because art and life tend to influence each other, and this was no different. So many of our episodes have talked about the 1980s being a really scary time for people, and for the lack of control that they all felt.

Yeah. Go see the far side episodes, the Warhammer episodes, the Dark Crystal episodes. And it is. Yeah. Yeah. Now, regardless, in the last stretch of the Bronze Age comics, you had insanity and genocide and character death. Yeah.

It had a fracturing of a psyche and the tragic death of a long time support character and Innocent as its centerpiece and as a result the next few years seemed to gain permission to step up from there We've already done this. It's kind of like playing hearts hearts already broken Some of this had to do with the shuffling of talent from company to company as there were a lot of legal and labor issues surrounding proper paying credit. Not unlike what's happening surrounding the black widow movies. I don't know if you've heard about this. Oh yeah.

So as of this recording, Scarlett Johansson is suing Disney for, I think, $20 million, stating that because of the way their hybrid model of release, it basically cost her money according to her contract. Because if you hit certain thresholds in the box office, she would get bonuses. Yeah. Well, you can't do that when you release it. There's also the fact that she was an executive producer on the film and there's profit sharing and whatever all in there often that she's not getting because

I understand it correctly the portion of the film of whatever money is being made through Disney plus isn't money she has access to right as a streaming producer the streaming stuff she's not getting a cut off right and so the money they're making through streaming is essentially being taken directly out of her pocket. Yeah. Yeah. And what is... Or some portion of it. Yes.

And the money that they're making directly from streaming is all there's to keep. Whereas box office, they have to switch, you know, they have to share it with the, you know, the companies that actually own the theaters. Yeah. And the counter argument that Disney made was, wow,

it's really sad that in this time of COVID that you're being so greedy. Which I'm just like, wait a go, Disney, wait a go. Thank you. Because it's really sad in this time of COVID that you're deciding that you want all the fucking money. And by the way, they called what she did, Crasse and upsetting, which I guess I would put some

credence to if it wasn't a worker trying to ask for more wages, but also if it wasn't for the fact that Disney opened up in June during a COVID pandemic. It just seems a little yeah. Yeah, you know, the longer time goes by since our early episode during which we took historical figures and assigned them D&D stats and alignments. The more your selection of Walt Disney's alignment makes sense to me. Yeah. Like there was a part of me that viscerally reacts.

I remember. That's come on. Really? And then you pointed some things out and I was like, yeah. Okay. And now, like this lawsuit, that was literally one of the things I thought when I heard about the lawsuit, it was like, well, fuck. Yeah, they're lost. Neutral evil it is, like, yes.

Well, son of a bitch. So, yeah. Yeah. So, it could be argued that's the organization, not the individual, but you know, it's his legacy. So anyway. Yeah. So.

OK, we'll see. But the last time something like that happened, by the way, we got a writer's strike because all the major studios found a new source of income in selling DVDs, and they didn't cut them in on that. So this, to me, is a very clear echo of that. And by the way, comic books. And it could be a bell weather.

Yeah. Comic books were running into these same problems surrounding credit and proper pay. And the rest, I think, of what happened to griddy up everything was a reaction to what was happening at the time. And we've spent hours talking about what was happening at the time. Now we've spent hours talking about what was happening at the time. Yeah. But it's worth a quick recap.

Giant shift to the right, abandonment of liberal ideology, assassination of world leaders who sought to make peace, assassination of attempts that galvanized support for anti-unionist leaders, economic crises, introduction of harder and harder drugs into neighborhoods, comprising marginalized folks, by those same governments, introduction of harder and harder drugs into neighborhoods, comprising marginalized folks, buy those same governments, plenty of interventions in South America, Asia and Africa and the Soviet Union weakening more and more due to Afghanistan.

In short, it was a destabilizing time and being nice and respecting the process was not an attractive option. It was truly fendicycle. I don't know what that would means. End of the cycle. Oh, okay. Oh, it's in the okay. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. One of the French terms I've never figured out how to say. Gotcha. But, you know, I thought it was a bike that you could ride underwater. Oh, there we go. It's a fendus Island. What rough beast, you know, shamed toward Bethlehem to be born kind of, you know, end of an era, end of an epoch, kind of kind of thing.

You know, which is interesting that it was at the end of a century, also, is an interesting kind of note. But yeah, it was, it was a remarkable period of kind of universal unraveling. Disintegration. Yes. Disintegration. Unraveling is good.

I think I prefer disintegration. Okay. Because disintegration feels a bit more everywhere unraveling. I get a picture of something wrapped, like unwrapping from a person. I just really like that there's shit that you trip over after,

because it's over here. Yeah, that works. I get it. But yeah, I get it. But yeah, it was just like everything was fracturing. There was huge disillusionment across the board. Yeah, and so the idea that a hero could trust the law and respect the process was day-passay. Well, yeah, well, it was, it was passe and it, and it seemed naive. Yeah. So from 1980, the end of the Phoenix saga, through 1986, the end of the Secret Wars,

which was the last hurrah of the Bronze Era, you have increased tensions, increased intrigues, increased shifts in previously two-dimensional characters, and increased grit. Oh, the grit. Oh, Spider-Man's costume turned black for fuck's sake. Yeah, it's spidey. Like let's talk about poster boy of, you know, lucky, lucky, cheerful heroism, you know, the polyanna of the Marvel Universe. His costume turned black. Yes.

Yes. Like until I actually like said this to you right now, the full import of what exactly that meant symbolically never really hit me because I lived through it. Right. If that makes sense. But now looking back on it. Yeah. Peter Parker's superhero costume. Right. If that makes sense. Yeah. But now looking back on it. Yeah. Peter Parker's superhero costume. Yeah. Oh, we're using our superhero names. Okay. I'm spider-man. Right. Like that guy. Mm-hmm.

Got an all black costume. Yes. Yeah. Yeah. Just. No, you're not you're not wrong on that. Yeah, absolutely. Um, I lost where I was going. But yeah, no, it's fine. Uh, so, uh, now let's put grit into comics. Let's pour some sand in between the pages where the moral lines are already very staunch and they begin to gray. And more over your anti heroes really start to step up Wolverine general, storm in 1983 when she leads the more locks. Right. She gets her mohawk and loses her powers in 84. Magneto gets rehabbed from 83 when he attacks Kitty Pride and realizes what he's become. When? When? Because I'm trying to remember, because I think we touched on this in our previous X-Men episodes.

But when did his backstory get retconned? I remember because I think we touched on this in our previous X-Men episodes, but when did his backstory get retconned shortly thereafter? Shortly they're after. Shortly they're after. Okay, it's after the Kittie Pride. So yeah, it's tied into that because Kittie Pride identifies as Jewish. Right. So yeah.

Hey, geek timers, give us an actual date on that yeah for some reason I don't have that I'm sure somebody in our audience to tell us the exact issue yeah producer George might be able to tell us the specific issue yeah he's in fact try to show really on that yeah really good about that but anyway so essentially according to Sean O'Rourke from pop matters an online international critical magazine that looks at pop culture, it was, quote, a deconstructive and dystopian re-envisioning of iconic characters and the worlds that they live in.

And quote, with clear access to seedings that lead up to 85, but definitely such a shift was clear in 86. Now, I'd mentioned Watchmen, but also there was the Dark Knight which we mentioned. The total ascendancy of the X-Men is the main Marvel title. They delved. Completely eclipsed everybody else. Good use of the word because they dealt with darker and darker themes too. Crisis on Infinite Earths in DC started in 1985 which was stunning to me. I could have sworn that was like a much later thing, but it wasn't. No, that sounds about, yeah. That sounds about right to me. Yeah. The Punisher got

his own mini-series in 86 and then a continued series from 87 on. I was gonna ask you about Punisher. Yeah. In 1987, Batman year one got started. Okay. Wolverine gets his own title in 88, killing joke comp is out in 88. Yeah. Sandman and the Crow started in 89. Yeah. The shift was clear by 1991, the new mutants who had appeared in 1982 and had Magneto as their own headmaster for many issues. Yeah. Led the way for the first Deadpool and then X-Force to debut. Okay, right. Anti-heroes galore. Galore. Venom got his own comic and it was seen as having an honor code for the first time, largely

because of his offspring was hyper-violence. So we defined Venom as good because Carnage. Because Carnage was so much worse. It's so much worse. It's like how people say Reagan was good because Trump was so much worse. I was gonna say Bush, but we say Trump Bush was good because Trump was so much worse. Oh, yeah, so carnage has actually been semi rehabilitated because of What's I'm trying to read is that I don't remember But there's another some other some other symbiot that's like even worse than carnage.

Like, okay, can we maybe lay off with the lazy writing about every generation of the symbiote gets worse? How about, I'm kind of okay with that. If that's a thing, but address that as being a thing, not just showing it without actually interrogating it. Right. Yeah. You know, I got it. showing it without without actually without without actually interrogating right yeah you know I had car which car did struck me as what happened when

Marvel looked at venom and go yeah, but what if he was also Joker That's good. Yeah, that's good. What what if we actually made him batch it crazy? Okay, yeah, not just alien right and? And, you know, and venom, but also, yeah. And in the 1990s, anti-heroes were a different breed of anti-hero too. It was the age of the anti-hero. I recall reading the 1971 classic novel, Grendel, in my senior year of high school in 1996.

Okay, yeah. Interesting that I read Grendel in the mid 90s and that it was popular enough from 71 Yeah. In the mid 90s as a book. We were all in on the anti-hero thing as a society. And by that time, all the heroes had been wearing non-mask, non-helmets and leather jackets for years.

Those stupid, like, I mean, it looks like a boxing helmet, except it leaves, you know, all your hair is poofed out. Um, as I've detailed a number of times in my wrestling podcasts as well. Yeah. Um, basically the 90s anti-heroes never lost, but they had little to no redeeming qualities. So truly, their only redeeming quality was power. Yeah. There's zealots of the moment and they do not have an overarching ideology

other than their own self needs. And they kill the shit out of people, especially criminals. Yeah. Typically, then which is interesting also because then you see the assault rifle ban in the 90s. Yeah. which is interesting also because then you see the assault rifle ban in the 90s. Yeah. Um... Well, when you see, you see a lot of, all of a sudden you see a lot of heroes with swords. Yes, and... In the 90s.

And now part of that was the Ninja Fad bleeding over... Yeah. Because they were all straight, single, straight, somewhat curly, right? They were either explicitly, this is a katana right or they were straight but single edge with a chisel point yeah and you know razor sharp and you know speedy swift and you're like well I wonder where you got that idea from well and typically these heroes these anti heroes yeah had guns yeah um even if they had other powers, they had guns which frankly make some sense. Um, they had pouches, they had optional feet. Yeah, they had lethal supernatural abilities, not just supernatural abilities, but lethal ones. Yeah. Uh, and potentially a tie in with a demon. Uh, their names are always hella short. They don't have a word for man or woman in their name anymore.

True. They don't have a word for man or woman in their name anymore True, and they're often seen with an X or Z or K They brewed they're often psychotic and they don't have much internal life despite this often the more happy ones are sarcastic in a reverent and also they're very Very cynical and super gritty and oh god the knives Yeah, okay, there you go Edge weapons. Yep. Because you know because well, but but on a more serious note, Superman, Captain America, they punch people. Yes. And you can punch the shit out of somebody. Yeah. A lot. Yeah. Before that level of force becomes lethal. I mean if you're Superman, the thresholds a lot

a lot lower, but you get what I'm saying. Yeah, yeah, absolutely. Um, if you pull a knife, you're going for lethal immediately going lead. And so there's a, there's a threshold. There's, there's another issue of threshold of violence. The, the, the intensity of the violence. Yes. Is like on an emotional level as a reader of a comic book, the moment there is an edge, and this reason I brought up the swords there. Yep, yep. Wolverine by himself,

from the moment he was introduced, it was like, oh shit, this guy's got knives coming out of his hands. It's extra dangerous. Oh, damn. He really means, he's bad. He means business. And then you have all of these other,

all of these other characters in the 80s into the 90s and proliferating like mad in the 90s who all have blades and all the spikes on like everywhere. Like, and the more pointy, the more pointy you get, not just are they edge lords, yes, but there is an immediate emotional resonance and immediate emotional signal. Yeah, you as the reader get that oh, this this guy's bad. Yeah, you know, don't get too close to the scene. Yeah, you know, there's there's a there's a sense of

intensity. Yes And this is the early 90s cartoons are starting to come back and the Batman movie is popular and Mamedic women are cutting their hair short similar to Sean Penn in Blade Runner from a few years back in the comics Okay Shoulder pads galore oh everywhere with space. There was there was a whole there was a whole thing within fashion in the Mid to late 80s into the 90s for Androgyny. I would also not just Androgyny. It's a specific brand of Androgyny because it was Androgyny, but with a more masculine build, power Androgyny. I like that phrasing. Yeah.

And independent comic producers were coming onto the scene too. Image. So while all this is vertigo, while all this is happening, both, I mean, vertigo was always a DC imprint though. It was, but it's an off brand. It's not the name, really. Yeah, but you're right.

So while all this is happening, why not have a squirrel girl during all of this? Why not buck the tide of grittiness and anti-heroes with a relentlessly positive genre breaker in as many ways as their creators could think of in mainstream context? So it's winter in 1991,

and squirrel girl comes about. Her first appearance was in Marvel Superheroes Winter Special, aka Marvel Superheroes Volume 2, number eight. Okay. She ambushed Iron Man and then teamed up with him. That's how you introduce a good guy always. Ambush the hero, then team up with the hero. Then she defeated Dr. Doom once Iron Man got captured.

Yep. Harley Quinn first appeared in September 1992, not to say that they're the same, but the same disruptive energy and humor has come from them. However, Harley Quinn went the way of DC grit and Squirrel Girl remains, a girl who has the power of squirrels and thinks it's awesome. Okay, so wait. When you say Harley Quinn's first appearance, are we talking about in a comic title or do

we mean in the Mated TV series? Period, and she started in the animated series. Yes, okay, just checking. Now back to Squirrel Girl, she was scarcely seen or spoken of again after that. She shows up on a card and is a part of a joke in the 2099 series, but nothing more. She was slated to join my favorite team,

the New Warriors, but the pseudo creator of that comic, Fabian Niqueza. No, Niqueza. Oh, okay, Niqueza. Niqueza. I, again, the Latinist in me, I'm going to say Niqueza. He left Marvel before that happened just to go freelance. Okay. Such was Marvel's practice.

Yeah. So really, she didn't appear back in the comics until 2005, but she starts at the height of super grit. And she is anti-grit, but then she completely disappears because super grit. Okay. Now when she comes back, it's initially purely as a comic relief, but here's the thing. It's the 90s and she's created as a reaction.

Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. But we don't flesh her out or actualize her until an even grittier, more existentially threatening time to any kind of liberal, not even leftist ideology, exists in 2005. Okay. Now when she comes back, like I said, it's comic relief, she's part of the Great Lakes Avengers.

Oh, a comedy team if there was a war in the world. Yeah, there are a bunch of cast-offs who were seen as too useless to feature elsewhere. And after the Civil War in which she fought Gripmaster's cable and Deadpool, she bounced around a bit. And she was part of the 50 States Initiative, as part of the Great Lakes Initiative.

And during her 10 year there, she defeated Modok, Terax, the new worries first foe, by the way. And Thanos. Right. The Thanos, she defeated, the watcher verified that it was the fact Thanos that she could. That is in fact the real Thanos. Yes. And not a fake or a life decoy fake clone or anything else. I the watcher. I remember that panel. Yes. Because was so clearly a massive fuck you. To so many fanboys.

Yes. Who hated her. Yes. Hated her. Yes. So hard. Because comics is serious business. Right.

And like it's three color comic books. It's a fuck safe. It's okay. Yeah. There's a character named Slapstick. You didn't bitch about him. Ha ha ha ha. Fuck. Yeah, it's okay. Yeah, there's a character named slapstick you didn't bitch about him When when when somebody was gunning down second rate Marvel villains, you know with a Tommy gun, right?

You didn't like no that didn't bother you. I didn't know but this this like dumb dumb Dugan offered her a spot at shield citing her penchant for defeating the most powerful supervillage. I'm like, I don't know how you do it. Yeah, like, can we sign you? Yeah, and she declined because she preferred the Great Lakes Avengers, which is just so beautiful to me. Squirrel girl then goes on to beat Deadpool in single combat. Yeah. She beats Deadpool. Yeah, she even had a crush on one of my favorite characters of all time, Speedball. And at this time, he was emo Speedball. So penance. And he, and she tried, he, he was really cultivating this personality of punishing himself for the

death of all the people in Stanford, Connecticut, even though it wasn't his fault, which started off Civil War in the first place. And she liked him and she wanted him to lighten up. Unfortunately, this was one victory that eluded her, but not before stealing a Dr. Doom time machine to try to go back in time to save him from his sad self. What I love about her is that she quits the Great Lakes of Enders or the Great Lakes Initiative because she realized she was so good at defeating really big bad guys that she was holding her friends back. So nice. So she quits and goes solo. I think at some point she defeated solo too. And at this point, she's becoming a more taken seriously

superhero sporadic though she might appear. Eventually, that means that she gets to join my favorite moment in her 2010 in the fall. She'd come home to Manhattan wanting to join the new Avengers. And Squirrel Girl ends up being the nanny to Jessica Jones and Luke Cage's daughter, Danny. Right. Little Danielle, named for, you know, his best friend, Danny.

Yeah. Danny Rand. Uh, the reason that this is my favorite is because she's genuinely taken seriously as a hero. They put her through like the ringer as far as like, well, you're going to be protecting our daughter. You better like, yeah, Luke Cage trusts her with his daughter during the fear itself storyline where she successfully defended little Danielle from the serpent society and more importantly the fool society.

But really the best part was when Wolverine who was then a member of the new Avengers was sparring with her. He was meant to her beating her. Yeah. He even said, let's fight no claws. Which I love. And she whoops his ass. And to the point where he's taken it back, and she turns around to post everybody, she's like, great legs represent.

At which point he does the old grab you from behind and put you in a hold saying never turn your back on an opponent and And she says oh, I know while he's got her in an arm bar And he serves a response with a really harsh like do you and she says do you and the next panel there's squirrels everywhere And he quits And he says okay. And he says, okay, okay, well played. And that was her interview to become the nanny for Danny. Nice. Yeah.

Now, after that, she's attached to New Avengers through about 2013. And then in October 2014, she gets her own series. And as always, I and you like to look at the culture that's happening. So from the 1990s, where it was anti-heroes galore, where she first gets started until 2013, a lot of things had deepened, but I wouldn't say a lot of things had changed. There was a steady margin, our culture in America toward a grayer narrative. Again, take a look at wrestling, look at Batman, look at

Vier from Indetta, all these episodes were covered. And she was only barely seen back then. But starting with her appearance in the Civil War in 2005, she starts to gain a little bit of momentum. And I think in many ways the Civil War was a watershed for people who didn't like Gritty superhero stories. Good didn't win it lost. It absolutely lost. But it was identifiable again. Civil war was polarizing where you actually had sides. Yeah, and you might say, well, there's aspects of that side that I actually respect and there's aspects of this side

that I don't, but I'm gonna go with this. You still had some gray, but it was sides. Doreen Green is definitely a part of that. That's her name, by the way, and there's a cheer to her. There's a relentless optimism to her amid all the nihilism of ideology that we saw from 2005 to 2014, there's one word that really had kind of come back into our lexicon, and I saw it on stickers and bags and t-shirts starting in 2008.

Hope. Mm-hmm. That such a thing could exist was enough for a character such as hers to elbow into our consciousness. There was now room for her in her own right. Squirrel Girl got her own series starting in 2014. Prior iterations were just quick jabs at the overly masculinized leafy old-esque grittiness of the 90s. But in the years after Obama got elected, there was room for a character like Squirrel Girl to exist on her own, and be a semi-serious character from time to time.

Now her fighting style of choice, how did she defeat all of these supervillains? Yeah. Understanding, talking, and offering alternatives. Yeah. Understanding, talking and offering alternatives. Yeah. I mean, sure, she has the power of squirrels. Don't get me wrong. And she's held a strong, fast and nimble. She can glide. Um, but she defeats many bad guys, not through combat. She reserves a lot of that for the anti heroes, actually. Yeah. But through conversation, uh, she convinced Craven the hunter to try his hand against sea monsters instead of the squirrels

Her friendship stopped him from ever being a villain after that Wait for real yeah Ever well since then I mean it's 2021 somebody might rewrite Craven now, but wow you got a deal with the fact that oh He's friends. Oh, he's okay. Yeah. Yeah She fermented a rebellion amongst the Yotin when they came to North America to dominate so that they reformed with the politics in Yotinheim She defeated Whiplash Okay, in route to befriending Galactus and convincing him not to eat herbs.

I remember that and I remember that issue. Do you remember her solution for him instead? Not off the top of my head, I don't. Go eat that planet over there. It's full of nuts. And thus a better source of energy. Nice. A squirrel solution. A squirrel solution. Later, he'd return the favor by disarming

the n teleporting villains that almost had her beat once they teamed up. These are the ones that she didn't reform to defeat her. So she gets saved by Galactus. By Galactus. Because she pointed out a planet full of nuts. Her comic, which is called the unbeatable squirrel girl, I love, it ran for 58 issues up through November of 2019. In no small way was she the relentlessly

polyanna voice of good reason when good and reason, sorry, when from 2014 through 2019 our entire country went through some pretty dark times. Yes. Remember from prior episodes, hate groups rose from 2014 to 2019 specifically from 5,419 to 7,314 according to the FBI. That's an increase of, I'm looking at the math, roughly 40%. Yeah. And here was Doreen Green making friends with the villains and refusing to just punch and fight her way through them. She could and she did what made her ass when she needs to,

but as often as not, she'd convince them, just chill out and do some good. Yeah, I do talk about hippo man, good. Sorry, as a, as a, as, okay. There's something. I do talk about him. Yeah, I do. I had to check.

Okay. Because like, do I talk to you about him now or now? Oh, wait. She also be friends, Koi boy. Koi boy. K-O-I. Yeah. He has a lot of coins.

And there's, I forget one of her other allies. It'll come to you later. Oh, it's so fun. I think that Squirrel Girl is a vital piece of her cultural art, the contrarianness of having such a relentlessly positive character in a kid's book, seriously and genuinely defeating evil through the power of friendship.

To a level that we haven't seen since the Guardians of the Galaxy first movie where they all hold hands. Yeah. And Defeat Ronin. Yeah. And having the actual power to back it up and triumph and combat as well while looking silly and not overly sexualized. Yeah. I think it's hopeful.

I think it's ultimately hopeful. Yeah. Puzzle solving, creative solutions. Those are her main weapons. I think she belongs in the same Mill you, I don't know what say category, but Mill you as comillac on Yeah, oh absolutely. Oh, absolutely, and I think comillac on would not happen where it not for squirrel girl. Oh, yeah Yeah, I I think squirrel girl is Oh, yeah. I have thoroughly figured out.

I think Squirrel Girl is two comics, what Cable was to comics. Cable has all these cool powers. Yeah. And he's also got a cyborg arm. And he's also got a big fucking gun. Yes. Squirrel, and so he'll use the gun,

then he'll use the cyborg arm, then he'll use his powers. Yeah. Squirrel Girl has friendship and understanding as her gun. And then eventually, eventually if she needs to she'll use the power of squirrels Yeah, I think it's a very interesting kind of yeah Deescalating and what's her what's her like mascot squirrels a cheap cheap? Oh God, what's his name is it chippy I forget I forget. Okay. I might have a minute down later. Okay.

But it'll also, it'll come to me. My son would be here to tell me. Okay. But yeah, she uses puzzle solving and creative solutions. Yeah. Those are her main weapons. A major part of why Skrull Girl's comic stands out is because she gives a lot more time

to solving problems without using her fist. So it's really... I mean, it's hard to... Yeah, it's really hard to like say, oh yeah, here's where she uses her tail in this cool way. Yeah. It's much more like she just asks people shit. Use her power, it's heart is the greatest superpower. Yeah, empathy. Yes, is like, okay, no. Yeah, hold on, Galactus. Right. Devour of worlds.

Right, wait a minute. Yeah, you gotta eat earth. Yeah. What about, why? Yeah. There's not so many things about energy. There's like, if that's what it is, then like, what about there?

Yeah, you know, you know, let me take a moment to gather information and listen. Let me empathize with you. Yeah, you know. Yeah, what's ailing you? Oh, okay. Well, can we do this over here? Yeah. Make it so more than just one person wins.

Have a sticker. Yeah, exactly. Literally. Oh my god. Uh, why it so more than just one person wins. Have a speaker. Yeah, exactly. Oh my God. Why is she not the spokesperson for you should be? Yes. I only want two and a half percent. Like like we're done. Yeah. Yeah. But incidentally, yeah, you're about to say. Oh, yes. Yes. Her, her squirrel's name is Tippy toe. Tippy toe. Tippy toe. Right.

Who has way more attitude than she does. Yes, and he's also really strong. Yeah, he'll punch, like she'll go for a high five and he slaps and she's like, ow. She's willing to befriend villains and let them reciprocate. That's the other thing. She lets them be friends with her too, which is important. She befriends heroes, she befriends classmates, She lets them be friends with her too, which is important. She befriends heroes, she befriends classmates,

she befriends squirrels, and all of that's just the icing on the cake, as she's exploring complicated interpersonal relationships with both morality and reason. For super hero comics, her insistence and prioritizing understanding and empathy is really quite possibly her most revolutionary trait. Squirrel girl regularly focuses on attempts at compromise rather than resorting to physical fights. Yeah. She talked hippo man out of robbing banks and into getting a job with a demolition crew.

Okay. Because he's got the power of hippos. She didn't. She didn't have. She had. So okay, wait. Yeah. So what we're finding out over the course of squirrel goals run is that there are super heroes and villains, apparently, in the world who have the supernatural power of animals. Like she is squirrel girl. Right.

There is hippoman, coi-boy. Yeah. Sorry, that sounds like a subset of twink, coi-boy. Yeah. But so then logically that means somewhere, there's like orange house cat man. Yeah. You know, who, who, you know, is probably the dumbest superhero ever born.

But, you know, like, I've got minions galore. But he's got minions everywhere. Yeah, you know, I just, anyway. Yeah. Yeah. Wow. And yeah, well, in fairness,, well in fairness spider-man thought You could literally name his villains and not run out of animals for a couple of long time. Yeah, yeah, no, it's true So that's true, but they but they weren't like

like rhino Had had the suit that made him, but, but he control rhinocera. No, he did not. He was, he wasn't like the avatar of. Yeah, hippo didn't, hippo guy, hippo man did not bring a herd of hippos with him. Okay. He just had the power of hippo. Yeah, the power of hippo. Yeah.

Okay, but is, is Rhino in, in the same power? Okay. Yeah, basically like I smash into shit and knock it over, right? But you know, Spider-Man fought the fly. Yeah. Which, I mean, dude, avoid Spider-Man. Yeah, like that's bad plan. You know, Daredevil fought the owl.

Who regularly talked about, you know, and who regularly would swoop like an owl. Yeah. In fairness, it was dumb. But, yeah. but you have all these superheroes right but yeah but she's just taking it to us so what I love about it though is that she she doesn't want him to stop being who he is she's not saying you need to go rehab yourself. She's saying, no, keep being a hippo. She didn't even really seem to care about the bank, which I liked. She just

didn't want to see him get hurt or hurt others trying to make ends meet. So Squirrel Girl suggests to hippo man that he do what he's good at, but in a way that's acceptable and feeds his family. Everyone wins. He's on a demolition crew. Yeah. And that's just it. She genuinely listened to why he was doing what he was doing. Villain stopped being one note foils for the hero to explore themselves from. Yeah. You know, she showed that hope was worth having and that people were reformable. She could have kicked everyone's ass, obviously, but she chose not to, the ultimate reluctant hero, or at least reluctant warrior.

Yeah, reluctant warrior. She grooves on, I'm a superhero, I help people, I save the day. Yes. Yes! Like, no, no, jump that, the call is one of her. Oh, no, I got to go out and, you know. She grabbed the call by the tail. She grabbed the call by the tail. Yeah, yeah, you know

But but reluctant worry she didn't she like it doesn't mean you gotta go fight. It means you gotta go save people right now She does defeat galactus Thanos dr. Doim Finn Fing Fum Baron Mordo Mandarin quarterback ego. Yep ego the living planet, Terax Venom, the Avengers, various anti-heroes, Mordok, she defeats them all by being competent and optimistic. Okay, back up. Sure.

She beat ego, the living planet. Yeah. How? Do you remember? I don't remember exactly how, but I mean, she's already defeated the guy who eats planets. So, you know, all right.

But this combination of optimism and competency totally goes against type, right? Yeah. You're not optimistic if you're competent. Yeah, right. Well, if you're optimistic, you're a hymnbo. Right. You're kind of, you're not, you're done all there. Yeah. You're a himbo. You're kind of, you're not all there. Yeah, and in the time where optimism seems hopelessly naive

from 2014 to 2019, it would have been an easy trope to have squirrel girl be an incompetent Mary suing her way through progress and success, but she doesn't ever do that, ever. She's been extremely competent the whole time to the point where that is the point. She stops breaking the fourth wall by the way. Like in the point. She stops breaking the fourth wall by the way. Like in the beginning she would break the fourth wall. She stops breaking it because

breaking the fourth wall adds a zanianist to it and takes away from her competence. Okay, and a detail I love about her is the winking nod to Leefield that people who write her seem to make. She has a belt filled with pouches. But the thing about her that I appreciate the most probably is that in many ways she is a nod to the queer community. It's obvious that she's gay coded. Disney Marvel put the kabosh on her being actually factually canonically gay, but there's tons of evidence to suggest otherwise. Not the least of which, she pronoun checks galactus. She lives with a woman named Nancy Whitehead, who's her roommate from college.

Okay. Say gay coded. They share physical affection in the very sweetest of ways actually. There's panels of long eye contact moments. Very gay coded. They co-parent a cat. They talk about co-parenting a cat. The two of them are seeing holding hands in public and they live out an entire life together at one point due to comic book technology. It's a really, really sweet episode. I don't see what you're saying about this being gay coded.

They're just friends. Right. Right. They're just best friends. Exactly. Living together, just like my aunt never got married. We never got married. Right.

Yeah. I don't see why. Anyway, I don't know why you're going to go claiming their gay or something. Right. I mean, no. Come on. Yeah. Anyway, sorry.

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So, but it's kind of cool because there's this technology where they get hit with like an age machine or something like that. So, they see their whole, they live their whole life together. It's kind of like that episode of Deep Space 9 where Jake ends up being an old man and he goes back, right? So, they end up getting to reverse the technology with the understanding that by doing so, they'll forget the whole life that they live together.

It's a bit more like one more day was for Peter Parker, right? Okay, yeah, yeah. And the hugs that they give each other, it's old gay women loving each other. And then they step onto the pad, because of course it's a pad, holding each other and talking about their relationship for the last 50 years. And here's some of the lines from it. Quote, I don't regret any of it. I don't want to lose it and I don't want to lose us. And then Whitehead responds, Nancy responds, quote, you're not getting rid of me that easily. And eventually, as the comic is

winding down to an end as a series, Squirrel Girls apartment has been destroyed and she's looking to rebuild her life. Nancy and she are rebuilding it together. There's no question to either of them either. They start listing what they can't live without and Nancy lists all the things about Doreen that are amazing and that she can't live without them. Doreen then says,

one of the most queer-coded things ever, because it's supposed to be about how her identity is no longer a secret, but really, well, quote, but I realize that where I am now, I'm safe, and I'm loved, and I kinda like the idea of not having to lie to people anymore, you know? Even if it's just a lie of omission, I want to share my whole self with the world,

I don't want to hide, I don't want to have to hide who I am anymore. Wow. Yeah. Okay. Marvel, unfortunately, has not taken that, which is interesting because they've let other characters be gay, but not her.

Do you think it's because it's a kid's comment? It's exactly it. Yeah. I think in the next five years, hopefully, we will see her. Yeah. you know like yes, I am K Yeah, you know, but we'll see what happens. I think that's great for kids to see because if you think about the young Avengers you think about the cartoons you've got Kamala Khan you've got Patriot you've got Hawkeye you've got Stature you've, you know, so you've got a whole

lot of diversity in the young Avengers. And I've left out a couple characters, of course. Yeah. You've got a whole lot of diversity there. Why not have a queer character? Yeah. You know? So at the very end, Nancy and Doreen are talking about a class project on what's basically

a Twitter feed. Okay. Texting, you're going back and forth on Twitter in public. Doreen asks Nancy if she still wants to be with her now that she's out. As a superhero. It's so thin. Yeah, as a super right, right, as a superhero. Now that you're out, do you still want to be with me?

Nancy says, no, Doreen asks Nancy. And Nancy, or Doreen asks her, yeah. Doreen tells Nancy that she thinks that Nancy should, quote, switch to someone else, real talk. I honestly don't mind, I promise. And it's about the project that they're working on for class. But it's not about the project that they're working on for class. Yeah, no, of course.

To which Nancy responds, quote, please, if there's one thing I know about you about me and about how we spend our future together, it's this. Doreen Green, you're not getting rid of me that easy. Easily. Which is a wonderful callback to when Doreen said that to Nancy when they were. She used Doreen's words that neither of them actually

remembered about their being together, because remember that gets erased. And much of this analysis and focus comes from the Tumblr user, Transthomaturge, and she should get all the credit on that one. Go check her out on Tumblr. Good stuff all around. And I got her permission for this. Okay. The main creator behind the unbeatable squirrel girl is Ryan North and he referenced seeing Nancy and Doreen apart as being as alien a concept as Superman and Lois being a part. He says this. Yeah. That's quite a likening. Well yeah.

Now her brand of optimism has been something that I've discussed before. When I discussed the Muppets specifically in relation to the dark crystal and it's shown up in other media as well power puff girls in my little pony being very specific instances of such There seems to be a place for such light in the darkness and the merciness of our dying and failing ideologies a stalwart almost punk nature in the refusal to be pulled down by the world around them. It's not just optimism, though. It's a relentless cheerfulness, a defiant, unmitigated joy, and that is quite likely why she's one of my absolute favorite characters.

She's uncompromising in the ways that matter to her. She loves being a hero. She's funny. She's a major fan girl, she's unapologetic about who she is, and she knows that she belongs with the heroes and knows that every fight doesn't have to be physical. They make her funny without making fun of her. It's pretty cool. Now, you mentioned this before, and I think it's worth mentioning again, this does of course

draw the ire of sad white boys complaining about the SJW aspects of comic books. Yes, but they're dumb. Uh, well yeah, I mean, yeah. One of them, like in Skrull Girl, as the patient zero of the SJW virus, where Captain Marvel wasn't feminine enough, where Black Widow wasn't pretty, where Thor wasn't a woman, et cetera. Some go as far as to say that Squirrel Girls developmentally delayed, and by some, I mean people with over 100,000 followers

on YouTube complaining with the writers of the unbeatable Squirrel Girls, hate comic books, et cetera. Here's a quote. Yeah, I'm not gonna name this prick, but here's a quote that I pulled from his video. She's just walking down the street with her a cup boobs and her boy body and her ugly face. Okay.

So because this character doesn't match this sad, pathetic little man's sexual fantasy of what a superhero and I'll look like. Right. That means that North and his cohorts, writing the comic, they hate comic books. Yes. Now, correct me if I'm wrong. Okay. But generally speaking, you don't wind up having responsibility for writing your own title until you've done a bunch of writing for other titles. For other titles.

Is this true? So presumably, again, I could be wrong, North had been writing for other titles. Yes. For a living. Yes. Before he started doing a swirl girl. Yes. So this is his chosen profession.

Is being a writer for comic books. So he's making a living in an art form he despises. Right. Is this guy's, whoever this prick is, this is his thesis? Yeah. Part of it. Okay. Um, um, okay. In fairness, yeah, this could very easily be projection. This guy is reading comic books that he hates and trying to make a living at shitting on them. Okay granted. Yeah granted. There's that. But I mean do these these people hear themselves like if you're if you're a fan of the genre. Right. If you have any level of like understanding of the history of the genre.

Uh-huh. You know, like even if you don't listen to our podcast, you know that the original authors of Superman were both Jewish. Right. Like you know that. And writing and they coded Superman as Jewish. They're having the immigrant experience to America. Yeah.

Like you, everybody, that has been spoken about ad nauseam. Like that, that thesis is fact. It's accepted as just the nature of the character. Yes. The character of Captain America, if you have read anything about the comics, even if you don't know anything about the civilian conservation core and the new deal,

even if you don't know anything about that history, you have seen the frames of the comic where he stands in front of a crowd. This is back in the 70s, the 80s, whatever it was. And, and, you know, shouts down and imposter. And everybody goes, oh no, that's the real Captain America. And what he says is explicitly anti-fascist. Yes.

Anti-rightist. For fuck's sake, you know that the first issue of his comic book shows him punching Hitler in the fucking face. Yes, yes. And you want to try to argue. Yes. You want to try to fucking face. Yes, yes. And you want to try to argue. Yes. You want to try to fucking argue that squirrel girl is patient zero for the SJW epidemic. So you're saying that this I wish I got laid as much as an in-sell gatekeeper red meat bullshit

is missing a point? I wish I got laid as much as an in-cell gatekeeper read me bullshit. Is missing a point? Bullshit? Yeah, it, yes. Yeah. Okay. Is, is, deeply, deeply, deeply ignorant, deeply stupid. Well, I, I dug a little deeper.

I want it to be, you know, I think it's important to, to listen to diverse opinions. For the sake of intellectual honesty. Yeah, no, that's bullshit. I mean, honestly, I don't ever try to understand dipshits like this, but largely because there's a lack of coherence and reason, but at least you can track like anti-vaxxers to a defraught doctor.

Yeah, yeah. Like this has source. Yeah, right? Yeah, yeah. Like this, this has- There's a source. Yeah, there's, you know. Yeah, okay. And, you know, this argument is very similar to all the other, you know, I wish I was an incelgatekeeper. Yeah.

Inspired to having that much sex kind of personality. Yeah. You know, it's, oh, it's 2PC, it's 2Diversus2SJW, right? And he specifically goes after Squirrel Girl because she does not big enough brass, she's not pretty, she's not neurotypical enough for him. Really I mean honestly it's just a lot of weird ways to say help. I've only ever read one or two Wolverine or Punisher issues and nothing else fits what satisfied 12 year old ideas of macho for me.

Okay. You know, good take. Good take. So I'm completely, I have marinated in toxic masculinity to the point that any other world view is just, is so alien. So weak. It, well, no, it frightens me. Yeah. And, and leaves me, me feeling uncertain about the choices I've made.

And so I'm just going to shit on it because that's the way to a certain my dominance. Right. Yeah. It's slightly deviates from my idea of what should be based on my very limited read. Therefore, here's why it's bad. Okay. Yeah. Wow. So what a terrible way to live your life. Well, this is why a YouTube is an awful shes is okay, and this guy has a how many over a hundred thousand really yeah, well, I mean there's plenty that many Fucking all right. Yeah man Ben Shapiro has more Okay, yeah, well what did I go? Manic pixie dream girl meets meets oh a manic pixie dream girl meets. Meets, oh, oh, no, not in cell.

That would have been too easy. But yeah, he thinks he's a manic pixie dream girl. Yeah. He, like somehow in his own head, he thinks he's that, you know, crazy, disruptive forest. Like no, you're just a sad, pathetic, fucking loser. You can't satisfy a female partner. Yeah, apparently.

Like, well, he puts her, her sexual needs in quotes.. Apparently. Like, yeah. Well, he puts her sexual needs in quotes. I mean, like, yeah. Wow. Yeah. Yeah. So others claim to despise Squirrel Girl because she's not quote serious enough as a character.

It's three color comics. Well, you know, having a girl who talks and acts like a squirrel isn't a superhero character worth taking seriously. comics. Well, you know, having a girl who talks and acts like a squirrel is into superhero character worth taking seriously. And therefore, you know, she's not serious enough, right? Yeah. Yeah. So their objection is her power set, which is weird to me. Like, like, where do we start? Well, let's start with a boy who loves science, who gets bitten by a radioactive spider, and then gets the powers in a jelly of a spider Yeah, or how about a guy who took pills and then inhaled gas and then I don't know what like

To shrink or grow or talk to ants. Yeah, or a bad guy who wants hid on a beach in the sand and then something something something radioactive Sorry, yeah, sorry you said that you said that. And my head went to the song from the 80s, because I'm a radioactive. Anyway, sorry. But yeah, Samman is ridiculous. How about the blonde guy who lives in a place where dinosaurs and sabers who tigers live? Or a guy who had a heart problem and built armor that had roller skates and plugs into a wall. Yeah. Yeah.

Or a tree that talks, but evidently it's completely tonal because the only thing it says is the same phrase over and over again. Over and over again. Yeah. Or a sapient raccoon with a gun fetish. Yeah.

All of those are very serious. Those are very serious, deadly, deadly serious. Yes. Deadly serious. How about to go with the other Orthodox religion that these guys follow? You know, a guy who built his entire superhero persona around a flying rat. Yeah. Or the one or the one who is rich. Yeah. Or the one or the one or the one who's who's superpowers. No man, he's just fast.

He's just faster than everybody. He's the fastest thing in the there ever is. No, he got powers because lightning hit the chemical rack behind him while he was working as a forensic guy. See that's a red con. Yeah. Oh, is it really? I, that's, that's a, that's a more recent. I know that's, that's really, isn't it? I don't. Well, okay. Okay. But anyway, I know, I know that from, from recent sources. I don't know if that's the original.

Okay. But, but no, seriously, his, his power is, no, he's just, he's fast. Yeah. He's like, all the permutations are fast. Like that's him. Like, and, and and and I'm being Slippin kind of mocking in my tone There you go because he could fast more we could I'm sure In the writer's room that's Ben discussed right like what if he went back in time and he out did Alice Paul in prison

There you go like oh my oh my god, genius. You know, but no, seriously, like, it's three color fucking comics. Yeah. Like, I don't, I don't ever want to take anything away from the ability of the genre to have a powerful emotional impact to talk about important things. I'm bored. Like, I don't want to say, I don't want to relegate the art form to a ghetto of any kind.

But by the same token, the conventions of the art form are bonkers. Yeah. That's the whole fucking point. Yes. Like that's how it has the power it has. Yes. So for you to say, well, you know,

their power can't take the power seriously. Yeah.. So for you to say, well, you know, their power, you can't take the power seriously. Yeah. Okay, let's look at, seriously, let's look at Wolverine. He is, he is a bullied seven year olds idea of the best thing you could ever hope to be. He has razor blades that come out of his fists and he is literally unkillable. Yes. Like. And by the way, he, he, he like, contract. Yeah. And, and everything, everything else, everything else beyond that. His bones are unbreakable. He, he has a healing

factor in the lesson to recover from, from getting, if he, if he loses a fight, he recovers instantaneously, his bones can't be broken. And he has razor blades coming out of his face. Like if you dissect any superhero's power set down to its most basic ideas, it becomes absurd because it is. So the very idea of saying, well, you know, I can't take it power seriously is like, I'm sorry, when do you start taking a choose? When, when, when, when, where is the dividing line?

Now, now it could be argued. If you actually wanted to have an intellectual literary analysis kind of conversation about the character, you could say, well, okay, look, she was, she was written expressly as a parody, as a response to this. She didn't start out being something that was meant to be taken seriously. And so everything that's come after that is built on a foundation of parody. And therefore, a foundation of parody and therefore, and you can try to make some kind of, you know, a priory argument, but you'd still be full of shit because that's not how any kind of literature works.

Well, and I'm sorry, but if you want to talk about Mary Sue, I don't hear anybody complaining when Reed Richards whips out yet another perfect plan to deal with the shit that he's never seen before. Oh, yeah. Well, Reed Richards is the MCU's version of Bruce Wayne. Yeah, I mean, you know, like these guys that are complaining about this are the ones who grew up reading like you said,

the gritty comics, and they're mad when anything comes in to fracture their brittle sense of masculinity and femininity ultimately. Yeah. And it's a damn shame. And they want to crap on the character because she doesn't look the right kind of feminine enough for them.

It's like, how do you tell me that you're insecure in your own gender identity without telling me you're insecure in your own gender identity? And I'm not saying that like their closet, you know, trans non-binary, whatever, I'm saying your whole gender identity is built on a fucking house of cards.

Like you don't even know what it means to be masculine. If her not being feminine enough is that much of an issue for you that you have that level of, of, of duchin. Yeah. Over it. Like, who? Does anybody care? I mean, ultimately, you know, take, take a step back from that. And it's, um, I'm bothered that my male gaze doesn't make them hypersexualized anymore.

That's what that is. Oh well. Yeah. Okay. My superpower of the male gaze doesn't bring for breasts. Reframing that. Yeah.

In that way. Yeah. Oh damn. All right. Squirrel Girl is not only a good comic. It's a good comic. Okay. And it does in this era, what comics in the 60s used to do, but far more effectively. It's subversive, it's representative, and it's good, different from what came before.

All right. So that is why everyone should go out and read squirrel girl And by the way, there are a number of squirrel girl Representations in cartoons. Yeah, you can even though I mentioned the the shittiness that is Disney plus and it is But ultimately the content they have on there is goddamn amazing the contents of the corporate the corporate shenanigans Several bullshit but the contents amazing several of the cartoons that they have on there include Squirrel Girl and Kamala Khan. Oh brilliant. I strongly recommend people go.

Speaking of fan girls. Yes. That's one of my favorite things about Kamala Khan is. Yes. So, very cool. Yeah. So, what have you gleaned? You know, in the end, the fact that

authorial intent not only means Bupcus, but that authorial intent can evolve. Because like from the very first time she ever showed up, she said, you know, I like the old comics where the good guys were the good guys the bad guys are the bad guys are the bad guys and you know and and you know cheerful optimism like the manifesto that was her very first appearance. And then she disappeared and then she came back and she is a genuine character with the same message but not being quite so and malicious about that message. And being the kind of hero who exemplifies 21st century values of empathy and you know, like you said, the optimism that we are going to need, you know, in order that younger people, younger than you and me are going to need in order to tackle the issues that we didn't get around solving, you know, I think, yeah, I think that's the biggest thing, is, you know, it doesn't matter if a character, like I was about to say, it doesn't matter if a

character starts out as a joke, that joke can turn into something entirely different and very powerful and very important. Yeah. And this just occurred to me. And anybody who wants to shit on Kamalikhan and Skrull Girl and recent comics, trends within recent comics, to be representational, to have a message of positivity to talk about social issues, whatever all of them who wanna, who wanna, you know, decry SJWs, what they probably don't care about, but I do. And what I would wanna point out to all of them is,

they are reinforcing the walls around the Jean-Raghetto around comic books. Because so many of these assholes build themselves up to be these huge comic book fanboys. And then they have these attitudes that you're like, do you understand that if everybody in popular culture held that attitude, comic books would remain this little tiny, rich thing that nobody takes seriously because they die. And the thing is, and now another permutation, I think some of those assholes would prefer it that way because they'd rather rule in hell. Because if it's my little fiefdom, I can be the big important guy

with 150,000 followers, or whatever. And I'm finally the important star. Yeah. Instead of realizing their, yeah, when there are more creative, frankly better people actually generating stuff. Right.

Anyway. Okay. So anyway, that's my Glean. How about you? Well, I didn't Glean shit. I mean, I get this episode. Okay. So anyway, that's that's my Gleen. How about you? Well, I didn't glean shit. I mean I did this. So, but here I will recommend to people not to read something this time. Although obviously the Unbeatable Squirrel Girl is only 58 episodes. Yeah. But I will recommend that people watch Marvel Rising Secret Warrior. There's a 2018 cartoon movie, 80 minutes long give or take. Okay. And it's, I have squirrel girls in it.

It's the young, it's the young Avengers essentially. Okay. So it's just, it's a fun, let's see, Lockjaw Quake, Kamal Khan, Miss Marvel, Patriot, Inferno, America Chavez. Very cool. A couple of the captains show up.

OK. And then squirrel girls in it, obviously. So I would recommend you go watch that. It's fun. It's 80 minutes. If you got kids, they're going to love it. OK. So I'm going to recommend that.

What do you recommend for people this week? I'm going to recommend the Kamala Khan run of Captain Marvel or Miss Marvel. I'm trying to remember whether she was Miss Marvel. She's Miss Marvel. She's Miss Marvel. Yeah. I cannot strongly enough recommend the Kamala Khan Miss Marvel series. I'd like to ask you to give us a brief brief and a brief brief brief brief brief brief brief brief brief brief brief brief brief brief brief brief brief brief brief brief brief brief brief brief brief brief brief brief brief brief brief brief brief brief brief brief brief brief brief brief brief brief brief brief brief brief brief brief brief brief brief brief brief brief brief brief brief brief brief brief brief brief brief brief brief brief brief brief brief brief brief brief brief brief brief brief brief brief brief brief brief brief brief brief brief brief brief brief brief brief brief brief brief brief brief brief brief brief brief brief brief brief brief brief brief brief brief brief brief brief brief brief brief brief brief brief brief brief brief brief brief brief brief brief brief brief brief brief brief brief brief brief brief brief brief brief brief brief brief brief brief brief brief brief brief brief brief brief brief brief brief brief brief brief brief brief brief brief brief brief brief brief brief brief brief brief brief brief brief brief brief brief brief brief brief brief brief brief brief brief brief brief brief brief brief brief brief brief brief brief brief brief brief brief brief brief brief brief brief brief brief brief brief brief brief brief brief brief brief brief brief brief brief brief brief brief brief brief brief brief brief brief brief brief brief brief brief brief brief brief brief brief brief brief brief brief brief brief brief brief brief brief brief brief brief brief brief brief brief brief brief brief brief brief brief brief brief brief brief brief brief brief brief brief brief brief brief brief brief brief brief brief brief brief brief brief brief brief brief brief brief brief brief brief brief brief brief brief brief brief brief brief brief brief brief brief brief brief brief brief brief brief brief brief brief brief brief brief brief brief brief brief brief brief brief brief brief brief brief brief brief brief brief brief brief brief brief brief brief brief brief brief brief brief brief brief brief brief brief brief brief brief brief brief brief brief brief brief brief brief brief brief brief brief brief brief brief brief brief brief brief brief brief brief brief brief brief brief brief brief brief brief brief brief brief brief brief brief brief brief brief brief brief brief brief brief brief brief brief brief brief brief brief brief brief brief brief brief brief brief brief brief brief brief brief brief brief brief brief brief brief brief brief brief brief brief brief brief brief brief brief brief brief brief brief brief brief brief American, Americanized Muslim girl in a family where her parents are first-generation immigrants from Pakistan. And her brother is intensely religious, but her brother is also simultaneously kind of a joke. Because it becomes very clear that he uses his intense religiousness to have an excuse not to go looking for a job. And his dad is fed up with him because if you'd spend less time at the mosque and more time looking for a job,

and it just, it shows them as people. And it shows her the tension she experiences trying to live in the world with her friends and live in the same house under her parents' rules. Oh yeah, and I recall she ends up crushing on somebody for a while. Yeah, there's all kinds of things. Oh yeah, no, it's the writing age story.

Yeah, the writing is absolutely amazing. And Kamal Akhan as a character is certainly one of my favorite characters of this century. So I cannot highly enough recommend it. Please, please go out, look for the Kamalikhan series of Miss Marvel. Cool. All right. So, where can people find you on social medias? I can be found on social media at Mr. Blalock

on the Tiki Talk, and then on the Twitter machine and Instagram, I am EH Blalock. Where can they find you? You can find me at duh Harmony on Twitter and Insta, and then you can find me on twitch.tv, forward slash capital puns, every Tuesday night at 8.30 p.m., Pacific Standard Time.

And where can they find the both of us to correct my pronunciation of my favorite creator? Every thing. Yeah, my creator, my favorite series, The New Warriors. Yeah, they can find the two of us collectively at Geek History Time on Twitter, and at www.GeekHistoryTime.com on the Interwebs in general.

And of course, you can find this podcast, which you've already found, because you're listening to us, but if you wanna look for us anywhere else, our episodes are of course archived on our website. We can also be found on Spotify, Twitter, not no, Stitcher, sorry, Spotify Stitcher

and in the Apple Podcast store. Check us out, please subscribe. Please give us a review, give us those five stars. You know we've earned. And there we go. Yeah. And tell your friends, of course. Yes, please. All right, well, for Geek History of Time,

I'm Damien Harmony. And I'm Ed Blalock. And until next time, keep rolling 20s. I was gonna say kick butts and eat nuts. There you go. There you go. There you go. There you go.