A Geek History of Time - Episode 127 - Zombies Part III

Episode Date: October 2, 2021

So thank you all for coming to Cocktalk. He has trouble counting change, which is what the hands think. Wait, wait, stop. Yes, but I don't think that Dana Carvey's movie, um, coming out at that same time, was really that big a problem for our country. I still don't know why you're making such a big deal about September 11th, 2001. Fucking hate you. Well, you know, they don't necessarily need to be anathema, but they are definitely on different ends of the spectrum.

Oh boy, how do you say I have a genetic predisposition against redheads. So because you are one, yeah, combustion, yeah, we've heard it before. The only time I change a setting is when I take the hair trimmer down to the nether reaches, like that's the only time. Other than that, it's all just a two I'm joking I use feet after the four gospels. What's the next book of the Bible? Okay, and after that Yeah, okay, and if you look at the 15th chapter of Romans, okay, you will find that it actually mentions the ability to arm yourself That's why it's AR worth it. This is a geek history of time. We're a collector of the Reactor of the Reactor of the World History of English

Teacher in the upper area of Northern California. And this week, as you may have already guessed from audio quality or background noise or the board only knows what,ien and I are recording from home again over a Skype connection, which I have to share because I've got to throw you under the bus a little bit because I needed to laugh earlier. We spent an hour fiddling with settings. I should be fair.

Damien, spend an hour fiddling. You spent an hour fiddling with with settings. I should be fair Damien spent an hour Fiddling you say you spend an hour saying be cold. Oh every time I'd say Marco like that's all you had to like Literally at the easiest damn job. Yeah, I mean yeah But but Damien just spent the last hour Fiddling with settings and fiddling with settings for that last 5% by the way like I had 95% figured out. Yeah, yeah, everything was figured out except there was this one little push a little tiny, tiny neck was if he was recording he could hear me just fine. started recording my voice dropped. Yes. And for the recording. What we do find. Yeah, no, it recorded great. Right.

But the trouble is the whole format of what we do here is that we're having a conversation. And so it's like, well, you know, I've got 95% of it figured out. Well, yeah, but that last 5% is kind of crucial. Only to find out in the last moments of all of that, the monitoring, the setting had been switched off. For God knows what reason. You don't think that should be inferring like in fairness to you, I feel like you know how to be defaulted the one like what the hell yeah, yeah, but you know So it is you know by the same token. I mean, you know, it's it's like spending you know 15 minutes trying to figure out

I'm why my work computer won't talk to my printer only to remember right my printer I actually have to plug it in right like because I had that happen during my prep period two days ago, like, okay, fuck me. So yeah, so we're, if there's any weirdness this evening, understand that we are now back to the quarantine version of the show, because at the risk of dating this, he and I are both back at work dealing with multiple kids daily. And so, you know, with Delta lurking, our determination was that this is the safest way to go about doing this. So here we are. And so anyway, that's me, that's my little tidbit for this evening. How are you doing?

And who the fuck are you? Well, I'm Damien Harmony. We did get a note, by the way, from a concerned parent that you swear the most. I was disappointed because it's normally you that shows the restraint, but whatever. Well, I am a Latin and drama teacher up here in Northern California, and I am one hell of an engineer. Yes, you are. That is all that I am going to say.

Yeah. Yeah. Oh my god. Yeah. If it weren't for the fact that it would log rhythmically increase the level of complication, I wish there was a way for us to actually get producer George directly involved in the quarantine version of the show.

I think honestly, I think there's a way via Skype, but I also think that the day that we record is probably a work night for him. Yeah, it's going gonna be hard for him. But having said that, yeah, I think that we'll be recording like this for a while. The upside is your commute is much smaller. Yes, and I can have a beer or four or three. Yeah, well, I mean, I appreciate you keeping my house dry, but like I am pretty okay with it. Just don't spill so well Yeah, but like I got a drive home. Oh

Good call drive home place. I got a drive home. Yeah, so it's you know, it's kind of a problem Yeah, you know, which which was the reason of course why we did drunk Tolkien back that's right when we did it was because Hey, I don't have to drive anyone. That's right. So, you know, I will say that when we made the decision that we were going to go back to recording at home, my wife's response was to look across the room and say, oh dear, oh I'm so sorry, I didn't hear that. Oh God, that's awful.

Exactly, that don awful. Exactly. That don't a voice. You know, just because again, it means I don't, I don't have to drive cross town. And it's like, yeah, so, you know, and frankly, if your house was better set up recording, I would have no problem coming to you. But yeah, it's, well, yeah, my house, my house is an apartment. So yeah, it's nice. Yeah, my house. My house is an apartment. So yeah, it's kind of an issue. But yeah, you see, you could have

parlayed that into like, you know, because I can only see this part of the screen. I'm just going to say that. Oh, yeah, you could have parlayed. Yeah, yeah, but you know, whatever. I know, I know, you know, as a veteran of two Americans, you can have, yeah, you get a view of my liquor cabinet from where I'm sitting right now over my shoulder.

Yeah, but there's also nothing else that I could see. I'm just saying you could have sweetened the pot for your wife and none of the listeners would have been the wiser. So. This is true, but in any event. All right, so last week, so it was aquatic Nazis on. Yes. Yeah.

And orange. Yeah. Yeah. Like, I kind of want to try to figure out, there's a part of me that really wants to get pointy headed about like, you know, okay, wait, so based on the Lord that we've studied so far, what is. What is the deal with the orange mist? Like where does that come from in the sit guys? And then I realize it's a B movie, for a D movie. There was made to try to make quick cash because horror movies are the ones you do that with.

Shot on location in Florida. So there's any number of reasons for it. Not the least of which being, it's very likely that in technicolor that might show up the easiest or that was just the most abundant color available at the time. Those were the road flares they were able to find to generate the smoke.

There you go. Like, yeah. But that does bring us to 1978. And in 1978, we get dawn of the dead. Okay, now this is gonna be a big deal. Yeah. You know, from earlier conversations, I know this is, this is a turning point.

So tell us what's going on. So I mean, you know, in 68 you had Romero's genre creating Ultimately a night of the living dead. There's a black and white film. It was set in Pennsylvania It was accidentally subversive I think dawn of the dead was his first. I'm consciously making a movie about something Not just human interaction, but like society and it is a deliberate sequel. It is a deliberate re-entrance into that world and it is And at this point he's also not just doing independent films. He's also doing international films

He's still not doing much in the way of Hollywood effort though. So in many ways, Don or the Dead is the Westing House to Knight of the Living Dead's Edison. Oh, I like that. So that is, that is that it codifies a lot of zombie lore at this point. And it takes the social critique out from under the surface to putting it on the surface on purpose. The thing that is rosa, rosa rather than sub-rosa. Right, right.

Although, I'm gonna quibble with that just because sub-rosa means it's up in the ceiling and you're all standing under it in a gathering and a conspiracy. But yes, I mean, it's basically, it's, it's, yeah, it's, it's liminal not subliminal. Okay, there, that's all right, linguistically better. Right. Now, the thing that caused the zombies is still unspecified and I really like his consistency through the years with that. To the point where in in later movies, he by the way, my voice is shredded because

we've been teaching in person. Even though I have a microphone and a PA system in my classroom, I've still blown out my voice because I was lecturing for three days to my drama kids on the history of drama Which was fun and and very slip shot, but So if you hear my voice cracking. It's not because I'm going through Old Man puberty I just I blew out my voice this experience today All right, so I do like though that in his world the thing that causes zombies remains unspecified to the point where scientists are looking for a cure and they never really find it. But the zombies are here, it's 1978,

millions have died and the reanimated corpses of them are stepping up and we're right at the beginning of the zombie apocalypse in this movie. So night of the living dead felt very isolated, unexplained, and it was like a snow globe. Now we see that the scope is much larger. And we are still at the very beginning. People do not know how to deal with it, which I really like. There's a layer of incompetence dealing with the zombies. The government is failing, social order is collapsing, but we're all at the beginning stages of that stuff. Whereas in 68, you had still reports of,

like, well, we found that Posse's are doing this and on and on and on and you have people like you had an expert come on and do a radio talk show that kind of thing. Now it's falling apart. Also in the movie it's falling apart. Now to date this. So this is 1978 and I think it's interesting that he's doing a movie about the systems that we trust falling apart during the general malaise All right, so 78 we have fault fall of Saigon is 75 yes

75 76 no that's 75 75 and Carter is elected in 76 76 and I think like like you said great great mellas is is a thing and we're in the middle, we're not quite at the absolute high tide of mutually sure destruction with a cold war. We didn't quite get there until Reagan. But we're very close and Carter working as high end off to try to de-escalate. We have an economic recession going on. We've had more than one fuel crisis. Right. We're in the 2020s minus 50 years, basically. You know, everything is falling apart. And I'm trying to remember, and I'm ashamed of myself, and I don't remember it, but that sure got elected in 79.

Yeah. Okay. So it's thatch or it's Afghanistan and it's the Iranian hostage crisis. All happened in 79. Yeah. All, all is all your so it's so it's right so it's right on the cusp of that. Mm-hmm. And don't forget Urban Blight. I believe you're a year to remove from the blackout of New York, but I might be off by, yeah, I'm arguing there there, but I'm trying to remember. So yeah, major, major urban

centers, everybody's terrified of, you know, skyrocketing crime rates. Okay. Yeah, New York blackout was 77. okay. So that's also in the Mexican. Yeah, while this was being filmed. So now Reagan has not gotten into power. So we don't have the public mental health. Oh no, we do because he did that and he did that as governor of California in the 60s. But national scale. Oh true. We don't we're not we're not seeing the explosion of homelessness yet. No, but we saw during during his time. True, but we are we we have seen the criminalization of drugs at this point The war on drugs is is really gearing up. It's not the market its slick version of the war on drugs, but it is indeed the war on drugs Place but the PR hasn't caught up with it yet, right?

So because the thing is I mean if you look at 80s horror movies and this may win later in this analysis of zombie flick, but Prince of Darkness, which is John Carpenter, if I'm remembering right, is a product of, I don't know, five or 60 years through this. And there is so much subliminal, oh my god, homeless people are scary in Volv. Because spoiler alert, essentially, a church becomes the epicenter for, you know, the world and around the church, a horde of shambling, they might be dead or they might just be kind of mentally zombified, homeless people show up and just start shuffling around staring at the building. And I'm trying to remember, yeah, I want to say Iggy Pop, but I don't know I'm wrong. Oh, damn it. Rock and Roll star,

Wayne and Garth bow down to him at the beginning of Wayne's World World World. Alice Cooper, the Alice Cooper. Alice Cooper has a bit part as kind of the leader of the undead homeless is on the base. Okay. In the film and and there's the it is it is so clearly. You know, uh subconscious fear of homelessness. Um, there's there's a part of me that wants to try to extrapolate that back to. Mm hmm. This film, but I know I know I feel like I'm too early for that.

You are. You absolutely are. So in this particular film, the National Guard has found some success in the open country, but the cities are thoroughly fucked. Rural folks seem to have better luck than the city deadensins do as well. And I think this is what I genuinely think solidifies. It doesn't codify it yet, but it does solidify the future of zombie movies and TV shows as being essentially modern day Westerns.

I'm going to come back round to that at the end. You've got rural settings, smaller towns, wider avenues, lots of people taking things into their own hands, large government failures, local efforts, finding success, small communities, people, banding together, essentially enacting the American dream of it doesn't matter yet in the city. We're a melting pot because there are zombies fucking everywhere. You got a shovel, good pick it up, go hit them over there. You're one of us. It doesn't really matter what racism used to be. Okay. All of these are essentially aspects of 1950s TV Westerns. Okay. I will accept that

without arguments or really any commentary being necessary. Yeah, I buy it. So this time, Romero is making deliberate choices too. First off, it's the city of Philadelphia. And I do really enjoy that he keeps staying in Pennsylvania for all of this. And now this was after Philadelphia had attacked Santa Claus, but before Philadelphia had bombed the entire city block to get rid of the black liberation group move. So this is between, you know, pelting Santa with badrace and

and bombing the black liberation group, the entire block that they were on. Okay, I'm gonna quibble. Yeah, no, I, between the I'm gonna quibble. Sure. Yeah, no, I understand. I'm, but I'm gonna quibble because I feel like that's an apples to oranges comparison. Um, or an apple to work, an apples to oranges analogy because, uh, pelting Santa with batteries was a democratic by the people, uh, kind of, kind of spontaneous moment of,

of where Philadelphia fuck you. The bombing of move was top down authoritarian action. I agree with you to a point there, okay, not see white Philly coming out in mass to say they were wrong for bombing a black neighborhood. Granted. Yeah. Granted. Okay. Yeah. I. All right. And. And. All right. Yeah. Give me that 1978 Philadelphia is known for its violence and its racial tensions to. Yeah. Well, they threw batteries at fucking Santa Claus. Right. I mean, like, yeah, there you go. You know, I feel like you don't ever need to say anything else about Philly except dude, batteries and Santa Claus and you're done. Yeah, you know, with that being said, I think it's interesting that he's

setting this film there just because like if there's any urban center where you know people have have the the wherewithal to probably do better than any place else. One would think that a city that's that fucking roofless. Yeah. Yeah. And the thing is, like, you bring up an excellent point because he could have picked a small

town, a small rural town in Pennsylvania. He did that for night of the living he did. But clearly he's looking to show the breakdown of society. So Philly. Well, yeah. I mean, yeah. But one could argue that the breakdown was already started in Philly before you introduce any kind of additional.

I think most urban centers, especially on the Eastern seaboard would be good evidence of that because I mean, again, the urban blight was huge partly due to the war on drugs, partly due to the recession, partly due to the receding of social services, the failed promises of the great society, et cetera. Oh, and also the American government killing leaders of black separation and black liberation movements. Yeah. Yeah.

So political dissidents are threatening social stability and the media is doing a really bad job of informing people of this. That's in the movie. I'm not just saying, you know, what's happening today. I don't want to date the show. Our protagonist. The thing I keep coming back to is all these zombie films is like it's now. Like then is now.

I showed you a video of that guy on the plane. And the reason I showed it was not so much his attitude when he actually got up and the whiny little bitchiness that as he gets sat down. It was the first 10 seconds of him zombie-ing out. Like chewing on his, making a lot of noise.

Yeah, so for those of you who aren't in Damien's and my messaging stream, the reference that the Damien is making is there's a video on TikTok of some privileged asshole who in first class, with that leg room, that shit was first class. And he got up to the front of the fuse slot. Oh, yeah, okay, yeah, good for his class. So he's in, yeah, he's a first class messenger.

Sorry, I grew up as the child of an airline pilot. So every time we flew first class, I had to be wearing a neck tie. So, there's a disconnect for me there, but yeah, you're probably, yeah, observationally, I can't argue with your point But anyway this this is a somewhat older than you and me is probably in his 50s white guy

in a in a t-shirt and shorts Who is having a meltdown just a complete fucking tantrum. But it's not just a tantrum, it is. I didn't understand, I'm gonna get to that. For background, he's, you know, losing his shit over the fact that he's being required to wear a mask, he's clearly intoxicated. And the way he goes about enacting this is, as Damien has said, he goes full zombie.

Like he literally starts chewing on the mask and like big white eyes making, like rocking back to like no shit. He looks like a zombie. The remark I made to Damien was like, okay, no, when they actually act this way, like you can't tell me that like this is about people we don't like. No, he's actually doing it. Like, he's acting, it's almost like he's consciously acting it out. And when they, when they choose to do that, like, come on. So yeah, and I don't I don't want to get into the rest of it because I'm spoiled. The thesis I know is coming, but just like

come the hell on, man. Yeah. Like, yeah. And it would be it would be hysterically funny watching these people have these kind of meltdowns. If it weren't for the fact that it makes me want to punch all of them in the fucking neck. Like, like hard. Yeah, because the subject that they're doing it over is something that's putting everybody else at risk. Yeah, well, yeah. Yeah. So our protagonist, her name is Fran. She realizes that her station is giving outdated information about evacuations to the people of Philly. Her boyfriend is the helicopter pilot, and he's planning to steal the new station's helicopter

to fly to safety. The station is WGOM, or we gone. I'm just kind of tickled at that. Now across the town, across Philly. Yeah. Yeah, no, okay. Across Philly, the city SWAT team is preparing to launch an assault on a low-income tenement building with filled with African-American and Hispanic refugees who refuse to leave their homes in favor of emergency shelters. So the only way to get them out is to attack them.

Now they're also refusing to give up their dead, both the deceased and the reanimated, because it's the opening rounds of the apocalypse. So some people probably think this is a reversible condition or this is a temporary condition. So there's that. So the people living in this tenement building, they are harboring a whole bunch of zombies in the basement of the tenement complex.

And the SWAT team is getting ready to attack the living shit out of this low-income place. So instead of evacuating people, this is one of those, we have to burn down your shelters so that you, I mean, they didn't actually say this, but essentially, we have to burn down your shelter so that you I mean they didn't actually say this but essentially we have to destroy your shelter so that you can then come to the evacuation center and be safe. So it is from a perspective of- We have to destroy the village in order to save it. Yeah it is from the perspective of we're trying to save you but I didn't see them attacking any other large groups. Now one of the SWAT troopers, his name is Woolly.

He goes crazy and he starts killing innocent and unarmed folks and zombies alike because of the stress of what he's doing. The Woolly then gets killed by a tall person and a gas mask who is the only black man character named Peter. Peter meets Roger. Roger is a SWAT officer who saw what was happening and the two of them work together to destroy a bunch of zombies next door and then a it's kind of a buddy cop type

thing. The two of them start to talk about what was happening and escaping together and they both found common cause and work together. So you have a man who killed a cop and you have a cop, but the cop that he'd killed was going apeshit. So it's kind of justified. And this cop pretty much tacitly consented to that. Okay. Now you also have in Peter, a black man whose history we don't know, and we have a white cop who's seeing his own blue brothers breaking down. you you you you you you you you So, the worst thing could happen in a role playing game is loss of your player agency. Yes. Yes, tickles, too.

So they have to kill them right and then the three of them live in the mall and it's it's pretty much You know not Roger Peter is kind of third third wheeling it because Steven and Fran are a couple and And there is a little bit of Racial component there as well Because two white folks in a black person and so you know what's what's what are the dynamics being used there and and by and large they they don't fall into them too terribly much but there's one point where Peter sets up a dinner for them to enjoy and then he kind of you know bounces away a little is a way. A little servant-y, but at the same time it's also something a nice guy would do

for his friends who were a couple. Okay, so let's see, Rodgers' dead and they have to kill him, so then the three of them are living until all the TV and radio and transmission stop. Oh, wow. Yeah. Now, proplique. Yeah, and remember, Fran was part of each bleak. Yeah, and remember Fran was part of the media, right? So it's it's kind of an important thing for her. Now prior to stopping the transmissions admit to the downfall of civilization. So sorry folks, shits busted. And times passing is marked by France pregnancy, by the way. And Peter's boredom. Yeah.

Um, well, lovely. They start to argue over the TV at one point, which is hilarious to me, because there's going to be multiple TVs. And everyone starts to realize that the mall has become just as much as sanctuary as it is a prison, or just as much prison as a sanctuary. Prison as it is a sanctuary. Yeah. So Fran gets the idea, you know what, Steven, you should probably teach me how to fly the helicopter. It shouldn't just be one person. And so he does. And they're flying all over the place. Of course, they're going to need to go get fuel. And on one of the flying lessons, there's a nomadic biker gang that is driving through and those bikers spot them and follow them to the mall.

And the bikers want in and the bikers are not zombies and yet they basically undo every bit of protection that these people had. Now at this point, Stephen is very territorial and he attacks the bikers. And Peter had said, look, we have built things here where we could just hide. They can blow through and take whatever they need. We've still got plenty of stuff hidden away. We can just hide from all this. And Stephen's like, no, this is mine. Oh shit. Yeah, I'm not sure who it is. Yeah. Wow. So, Stephen gets himself shot by the bikers

and he's weakened enough to then get bit by his zombie and get turned. And of course, because reasons he ends up leading the Horde back to Fran and Peter Peter and Fran escape, but they have very little fuel and nothing is particularly solved That's basically it Okay, yeah So wow this movie yeah, go ahead no no carry on this more than any other, uses zombies as empty ciphers. They have meaning beyond menace and subconscious assumption, and the zombies outside the mall

are basically window shopping for food. Okay. Their needs are ultimately simple, and they surround the mall. And again, this is 1978. Malls, like you said, are relatively new thing. Humans would flock to them following their compulsion to consume zombies, not that much different, therefore Romero is clearly calling this out on purpose. So this is what the zombies are starting to become. Fran never wanted to stay in the mall, but the three men that she's with out vote her They wanted to settle in they want to defend their stronghold kind of reminded me a little bit of first edition D&D

A little bit. Yeah, they wanted to settle and the zombies become the frontier menace to their homestead Okay, yeah extending the the Western analogy there. And she wants to survive, which means grabbing what's needed and moving on. But she's outvoted and the desire to stake a claim and to hold property and to defend it against the frontier menace of the zombies is ultimately with dooms the two white men. The woman and the black man are the two that survive. And this time, the subversion, I think, is on purpose because in a horror film,

who's the first one to die? Well, the BIPOC dude is always the first one to go. Right. And yet he survives. Uh, and, and by the way, who's what, what character always survives the entire play, uh, play the entire movie. It's always the original girl. Right. Yeah, the final girl. Yeah. So there's kind of a virgin Mary. There is, but also, I expect she's she we know that they fucked. We know that they were not married. We've got we've got all this evidence here. I think it's um, Romero sticking to the formula on some level, but inverting it a little.

Okay. You know, all right. Yeah. So the mall is a consumerist trap. The danger that's brought about by the Breaker gang is actually what liberates them from that trap, which I get a kick out of. Although it is a sheer and deadly terror that they are liberated into. But they can't be bored anymore. Stevens's boredom is no longer a problem. And they also can't pretend... Well, Steven is no longer a problem. Well, also true. Yeah, I mean, you know, yep.

And they also can't pretend that everything is fine. They have to deal with the world again and they have to leave. They have to move on. Your homestead is on fire. Only by leaving behind consumerism can folks begin to live more authentic lives again. Okay. And I think that's what Romero is saying. And it's also very biblical too.

I found a book in the Bible Zechariah. Okay. Book 14 chapter 14 verses 12 through 15. Quote, they're flesh shall rot while they are still on their feet, their eyes shall rot in their sockets and their tongues shall rot in their mouths. On that day a great panic from the Lord shall fall on them so that each will seize the hand of a neighbor and the hand of the one will be raised against the hand of the other. Okay, yeah, that's, that and if you take a look at who gets bit where it's almost always getting bit on the hand. Okay, so which makes sense when it's defensive wounds?

Yeah, I mean, you know, defense, yeah, that was what I was going to say is defensive, defensive wounds are a thing. What I find interesting is the biblical reference that you're talking about, you know, may their flesh rot while they're still alive essentially. That is, I mean, to me, knowing the context in which that was written down that's pretty clearly a direct reference to leprosy. Mm-hmm. Although leprosy itself was kind of a catch-all phrase for any skin disease back then. True. Yeah, but I mean, I'm talking about, you know, what is, what is nowadays recognized as,

no, no, true. Yeah, actually, yeah, you know, um, yeah, I think I, but what's interesting is the, the subconscious parallel between the fate of lepers historically and, you know, what being a zombie is in modern blur. The idea that as a leper in the ancient world, the moment you first showed symptoms, you became an outcast. Like you were shunned completely. Oh yeah. Because, you know, nobody, the germ theory of disease wasn't understood, you know, nowadays, of course, if you contract it, there are antibiotics you can take relatively early on to treat the disease.

Right. But, you know, in a world before that level of medicine, you know, it was terrifying. You know, you're going to die a long lingering painful death during which you literally rot while you're still alive. And, you know, what that, and the social horror of it was having all of your agency taken away, you became not a person anymore. You know, there's a reason that you know, in the New Testament, there are mentioned, there is mention of helping lepers is a thing because that was the height of no, no, no, I'm talking about, I'm not just talking about the marginalized, I'm talking about the ultimately marginalized, that you need to help even these people who are, you

know, so, so terribly marginalized as to be terrifying because of what it is that marginalized is them. And so that is an interesting, now that we of what the core horror of zombieism is, compared to what Zechariah was threatening people with as a prophet of the word. Yeah. Another fun juxtaposition is because everybody's defending themselves and keeps getting a bit on the hand, it kind of recalls stigmata. A little bit. Also our hands are what we use to acquire. We grab something, we grab it with our hands. And then it's how talking about agency, our hands are what we use to manipulate our environment. Yeah, exactly. So, I mean,

on multiple levels, the idea of everybody being bitten on the hand is symbolically important. Also on a kind of more practical level, that's actually one of the things, my buddies and I, in college, sky-larking about this or spitballing about this stuff, two o'clock in the morning on a weekend With to talk about you know what would be the best gear to actually carry if you wound up, you know stuck in a zombie apocalypse The first thing like University one of the first things we agreed on was no no get yourself some serious plate gauntlets

Yeah, right right back. It's protected. Yeah all Like the right prey not as bad as protected. All the way, you know, as close up to the elbows, you can get plate gauntlets, get a buckler in one hand, and I think we wound up agreeing that a short-handled war hammer in like a historical, not like Thor's hammer, the balance on that. But a historical, short-handled war hammer in the right is like, there you go.

Like, if you're going to have to fight your way through zombies, that's your starting point. Yeah, I agree. I think a blunt weapon that does acute damage, constant and blunt force trauma. Exactly. So, in as much an hammer of a broadsword, but, you know, Yeah, exactly. So it is much an emerald of a broadsword, but you know. Anyway, back to the point. So yeah, at the end of the day, the movie is still just a zombie movie. And what I'm seeing though is that these particular zombies fade into the background menace of the movie. The real menace is the biker gang that opens them up to being attacked by the background menace.

The real menace is the interpersonal problems that they're having with each other. Essentially, these zombies, like Native Americans in a Western, are there to height and tension and deepen the stakes. Zombies in a Romero's movies become mere background noise to what turns into a drama about people who have given up on fighting for meaning in their lives and succumb to a living death themselves. Okay.

So the stagnation of survival in the mall, as opposed to actually having lives with, you know, where they're actually doing something. Yeah, lives with purpose. Yeah. And so they essentially, the mall has done more to strip away their humanity than a zombie stripping away their flesh would have done. It's like the Lotus Eaters. Yes, but it's without the fun.

And without other people inviting you to the Org. Yeah, without... You're not... Well, Lotus Eaters so much is like you're eating Twinkies. Yeah. And actually Twinkies is the perfect example. Yeah. So, and I don't think that TV shows and movies with zombies Really go much beyond that theme at all either. I think they keep coming to the same point from this point forward

You're gonna see the major ones end up doing that. I do think that you see an enormous inflation of that in in Zombie land which then opens the door for the walking dead So you'll see it kind of deflating until then and then but you're still gonna have this if we're talking about in an acted Visual medium zombie land opening the way for the walking dead makes sense. I'm going to quibble About the fact that it has a comic book to Walking Dead predates zombie land by a while.

Yeah, by about nine years. But yeah, I'm talking mostly. Yeah, I'm talking about who those TV shows. Yeah. And American ones at that. I did not I did not get into the Spanish and Italian zombie films Because A lot of them were like porn. Yeah, yeah, so I still don't kid but anyway, that's we're getting off the subject You're gonna love when we get to zombie strippers then um, oh god, so This is the 1980s coming up. And what you have is a straight to video market

that exists. And the zombie movies and zombie referencing movies start to come out into the straight to video market, which back then you didn't have blockbuster yet. You still had like corner stores. So there were a lot of independent and straight to video movies that would actually get rented because there was only one or two copies of the latest movies. Zombiness is mostly there as the monster that the protagonist have to fight and sometimes there's

a car, sometimes there's not. There's never really a crucial need for zombies in the movie though. not. There's never really a crucial need for zombies in the movie though. You know, it's caused by a meteor or a yellow cloud fog, whatever. And so that's kind of what you start to see in the the straight to straight to to video cassette market. Okay, I want to talk a little bit about video cassette. Okay, so, so dawn of the dead. Uh-huh. Is 78. Yes. My family got a VCR. I'm trying to remember I want to say it was a Panasonic VHS because my dad talked to a bunch of guys who said yeah, yeah, the video quality is better on beta, but VHS is the, is what's going to win? Yep. Um, which like they got right, which if you do anything about my family's history, wow,

that's like one of the few times that's, that's happened in, in that kind of context. But, um, and, and I want to say that was 84. Yeah, it's about right for us to 83 84. We rented a VHS player from the from the store along with the movies. Okay. Yeah. All right. Because that was the thing. And I know there are a whole bunch of millennials listening to us going like, wait, what? Yeah. You know, in a whole bunch of Gen X is, well, okay, five or six, Gen X is listening to, I mean, demographics, it's just the way it works. Listen to us going, oh, yeah, yeah, remember that. Yeah. Big colorful buttons wood paneling. Oh, yeah. They tried to make them look like, like, you know,

D-D-A cabinets. It was really kind of thing. But, okay. And so, I'm trying to think how far ahead of the curve, or how far behind the curve knowing my family, or we with that being when we got one. I'm trying to remember when they went when was the VC or first released, like as a thing. Well, I know that first released is not really the marker you want to look for.

You want to look for when it was commercially viable for most middle income families to get. A good point. Because most did get it shortly around 84, 85. Okay. 86, you're going to start seeing it really swelling. Yeah, because one of the reasons that it's slow at first is because videocassettes cost an arm and a goddamn leg.

Oh yeah. And then they started figuring out, yeah, then they started figuring out how to make those cheaper so that you're buying a license and then you can get 10 copies for much cheaper and you could rent that out instead of buying an $80 video cassette for each one. Because I remember my parents spent about $80 on the three amigos but then when Batman came out that was only like 10 to 15 bucks. 15 bucks.

Yeah. Wow, how much for the three of you guys? About 80 bucks. Wow. Yeah. All right. Yeah. My dad refused to buy any movies. Sure.

Because he was like, how many times we're going to watch it? Okay. So, so according to Wikipedia, VCR started gaining mass market traction in 1975. Wikipedia, VCR started gaining mass market traction in 1975. By 1979, there were three competing technical standards using, and this is important, mutually incompatible tape cassettes. You'd have to go to the right section of the corner video store. So this is still this what you're reading is is way before the masses. Oh yeah. Yeah. 78 consumers in the UK chose to rent rather than purchase. And that's that's okay. Hold on. Phillips video which just died. Yeah, but anyway, we're getting to Ed reads Wikipedia. Yeah, we're getting way off the subject.

Sorry, but you know, what I find interesting is that there was a whole subjihonra of movies that you looked up that had to do with being direct to video. Yes. And like in my own head, I didn't think of direct to video as being a thing until later. Well, I think because I mean, we would go to movies and stuff like that. We would see movies and whatnot. And so then when you go to the movie store, you know, on the corner, you'd see way more movies than you saw advertised and you just would have thought, oh, those were probably in different theaters. Okay, yeah, that makes sense. So like I never saw 10 advertised in the theater, but yeah, but there was the box right there with Bojahic on the cover. So I assumed that that was released in a theater somewhere. And it probably was.

But so in 1985, you get the movie Frozen Scream, which basically says that zombies came about as a botched attempt at immortality. But they're really not zombies, They're just reanimated. So you're starting to see kind of a blending there. These particular ones have their own will and they're really aggressive as their conditions deteriorate. So I wouldn't call that a zombie movie.

It's zombie adjacent. The movie in 1985, the night of the comet came out and this was actually the inspiration for Buffy. Yeah. Okay. And it started Robert Beltrein. You might remember him as Chico Tay.

Yes. But the zombies were a side effect of a comet that either pulverized people or it zombified them. Like there was nothing in between. There was no, there was no. Yeah. And it was and it wasn't isn't this the one with with the two sisters is the protagonist yes okay yeah and and it's kind

of hinted that their father's like a green beret or something like that yeah and it's a fairly tongue-in-cheek movie it kind of reminds me of repo man quite honestly dealings with dark shit, but in a funny way same vibe Yeah, and it's it's not much in the way of a zombie film as the zombies in this are very ancillary to the plot right and The zombies even pick up a weapon on occasion. It's more of an apocalypse with just a sprinkling of zombies than it is a zombie film. Yeah, yeah But eventually we get to day of the dead and so I want to talk about day of the dead to wrap this episode up This is Romero's third movie in the series and it's released in 1985 and It is bleak

like super bleak Zombies outnumber humans 400,000 to one Human survive an underground bunkers. There's hardly any hope people are trying to figure out what to do to solve the problem, and it still doesn't have a known cause. So this movie, whereas the other ones take place in fairly open air, whether it's the confines of a house

or not, it's still open air. You can escape to the outside, or whether it's a mall, which has giant vaulted ceilings, this one takes place underground most of it. And so you get this isolation feeling to the cinematography, this hopelessness. Yes. And leads to kind of a besieged mentality when people are besieged. They start to act out in different ways. And so it has led to a lack of communication between different human communities. And this means that the humans are left to eat to themselves and they are all starting to lose their humanity within these small hamlets. Scientists are trying

to solve and understand the zombie pandemic, but they're belittled and threatened and harassed and whatnot by the military people who are now in charge. So it's kind of turned into alpha-pack type stuff. The people in charge tend to be military men who are absolutely losing their grip on reality, but since they have the guns, everyone else kind of has to go along with it. Romero himself said that this movie, specifically, I finger just dragged across the quote, specifically is quote, a tragedy about how a lack of human communication

causes chaos and collapse, even in this small little pie slice of society. Okay. So this is a movie about isolation and yes they're safe but are they really getting to be humans? So you know if the first one was about ultimately confusion and the second one is about ultimately confusion. And the second one is about complacency, consumerism, complacency, consumerism. And this one is about isolation and militarism. Okay. And the zombies are there, but they're kind of a background menacing thing. They're outside of the human experience in general. They are the Indians on the

war path. The real movie is about the folks inside the settlement who feel threatened. The scientists, as well as the helicopter pilot, who is the only black man in the film this time, they begin to opine that this is actually a divine punishment, and that there's no point to restarting society in this context. And that some of the scientists should find a deserted island and and homestead out there. Eventually it all brings down completely and someone lets the zombies into the bunker and then all hell breaks loose and the helicopter pilot the main scientist and the drunken and grizzled radio operator. They all escape in the helicopter and they head to the desert island, but only after the entirety of

civilization that they were a part of completely breaks down. Okay, yeah, because I remember I've seen clips of the climax of that with the zombies running at the chain landing fence and helicopter taking off. What I find interesting is in that film, and I think in most of them since then, the climax of the film is whatever human drama has happened, now all of a sudden, oh shit, the wall has fallen and now there's zombies everywhere we're being overrun by the horde.

Yeah, we stress you to the breaking point. Now the horde's gonna break you. Yeah, yeah. And that is the culmination of all of the interpersonal social order, philosophical, whatever drama you wanna you want to have, whether we're talking about it being, you know, the generals in that movie or Negan in the walking dead, you know, ultimately it comes down to. And now the fortress has fallen.

We have zombies inside the wire. Right. And now. we have zombies inside the wire. Right. And, you know, and yeah, I think it brings me back to what you said about, you know, zombies being the, you know, background threat rather than the main focus of the story. Yeah. Yeah. And I think that's that's a a a fundamental part of the structure ever since then that it's kind of the pattern again pattern on the wallpaper stuff like we talk about all the time. Yeah. Like looking looking at the way those stories work. It's like, oh, oh, okay, well, that's not really the horror involved here. Right. The horror is the other people. It was

coming from within the house the whole time. The whole time. Yeah. And that's kind of a noodle baker. Mm-hmm. Right there. You know, well, to consider that. Yeah. And, and I'm going to add a few eggs to those noodles for you. It's 1985 when this movie comes out, right? So the breakdown of society is getting grander and grander in Romero's films. The first time, remember, it was a localized event and it ended up in a single house. And it was really the overreaction of a posse that killed our protagonist then. And still, it was a fairly rural house and the posse were only one or one of the only things

that was finding safety and success against the zombies. And even them, they were more deadly than the zombies were to our main protagonist. In the second movie, they found a mall that had everything they needed, but it turned out to be a prison for them as well. Right, and only two people survived. And it wasn't even certain that they would, and Philadelphia had collapsed. The mall had ended up gone. The radio that we hear at the end says society is crumbling, or heard in the beginning, said that society is crumbling. But mostly we only really saw suburbia in a major city failing.

So the first one was a single home, the second one is a city in a suburb. This time, all of humanity is clearly reduced to bunkered in societies. We have literally gone back to our caves. And we are barely scraping by a civilization, madness is taking hold, and intellectualism is being marginalized more and more all the whole time. Strong men are in charge, and those same strong men are basically the cause of the downfall of the society they're supposed to lead and protect. And it's not like the scientists are much better because they're running macabre experiments that defile the dead even more

by keeping the undead and experimenting on them. And that's kind of a major tension. That's kind of a recurring theme too. Yep. And in stuff going forward. Uh-huh. So the Gore is also more visceral now. Literally in this movie, it's more visceral.

They're digging from the guts a lot more. They're not biting hands as much. There's severed body parts much more often. There's blood in the mouth. The makeup is more sophisticated. The zombies are still basically shambling and ambling, too. The Gore is definitely more pronounced, complete with blood smears down the hallway

and splatters on the wall. All of this is happening in 1985. You want to dig into 1985 a little bit? Because in 78, we're talking the great ways. What's going on in 85? Well, let's say Bruce Springsteen. Yes. I'm sorry. I'm trying to remember the lyrics to the song in 1919 1985 was like the first thing I popped in my head but Bruce Springsteen

Madonna way before Nirvana and there's still music on MTV, but Let's see what was happening in the world in the headland of Afghanistan being a huge thing with the Soviet Union The Olympics were the year before Gorbachev is now the head of the US. Gorbachev is on charge of the USSR. US becomes a detonation for the first time. Oh, good point. It's the height of the Reagan era.

Yep. It's the beginning of the second term, Reagan. beginning of the second term, Reagan. And I don't think there was public perception of the extent to which he was asleep at the switch. And everything was being done by, you know, the cabinet under him. But that was there. Yes. Try to remember, when is the Reagan wound up going in for surgery and Bush wound up being president for

Several hours. I believe that was a couple years later. Oh, okay. Yeah, he took a nap Because I mean honestly it was all symbolic. I mean yeah, well, yeah, I mean I know but That's kind of the point I'm trying to make is like you know, yeah, we've we've had the handover to the vice president President is gonna be you know Incupestated and the acting president has decided to take a nap because The cabinet or the ones actually doing everything Anyway Don't forget TWA flight 820 no 847 got hijacked.

Oh, okay. All right. What? I'm trying to remember 847. What was, what was where, where was that one was a couple sheites. Um, they threw the American hostages body out the plane. Oh, right, right, right. And it was to basically get Israel to release prisoners.

And Israel released two dozen, little more prisoners and then the hostages were released. Okay. Yeah. Also remember Columbia executes a whole bunch of people. The Bolin Amendment has kicked in. So the Iran Contra scandal is kicking in. Let's see what else.

Oh, what else? There was also... The small clans was 80. 82, 83, I think. 84. Yeah. 83, 83. Yeah.

Grenada was 80. When was Grenada? 283 I think. 384. Yeah. 283. Yeah. 388 was 80. When was Grenade? I believe that was 83. It's breaking. Yeah, that was 83. 33. Oh, I think what dread disease was really starting to random.

So, well, HIV. And fear of blood transfusions and things like that. So you see all this shit happening. Yeah, oh, and that really, that makes all of the visible, you know, blood smeared on the walls, gourd, that much more interesting from a suitcase perspective. So you've got all this stuff happening in 85 and it really does feel like things are coming off the rails and that the people in charge are increasingly disconnect from it and and frankly crazy. In 1978, remember it's the general great malaise, right? So in 68, 78, and 85 Romero makes zombie movies.

2878 and 85 Romero makes zombie movies. I just, I think that's interesting. Now in this one, the military isn't saving anyone either. They are an oppressive force that is ultimately self-coercive. Science isn't saving anyone, they can't. They're almost as cannibalistic as the zombies are too. Your scientists are starting to run wild ass experiments on zombies. Everyone is in the bunkers the whole time, which is harkening back to the old days of cave 12 being dwelling humanity.

Whereas the rest of the movie's feature protagonists who go from the outside into the inside as things get tense, this one starts underground and doesn't really leave it. And even as the zombies are invading, the protagonist find that they get trapped inside by the people who are abusing the technology in their nihilism. And the controls have all been smashed by the army. The pressure, the claustrophobia of it all, is palpable. Oh yeah. So here's a question. Mm-hmm. 85. Yes. Now we are, as a matter of fact, the absolute high watermark of the Cold War. I was going to say, that's right, all this is lining up. Usually a instruction and the metaphor for a nuclear fallout bunker is kind of hard to avoid.

There you go. I was hoping you were going to get there, but if not, I figured I'd describe it a little bit more. Yes. Yeah. Yeah. And they're 100 down underground. Yep. The world, the world, as we knew it,

has been completely destroyed. Mm-hmm. Yeah. Yeah. It's because thinking about what was on everybody's mind. What was what was in the zitgeist when was the day after I want to say that was 86. Okay. So I mean we're in the ball part. Oh yeah. This isn't responding to the day after, but it's responding to the same forces that led to the the the making of the day after.

Yes. Threads was, trying to remember, when the threads was before or after the day after. But I mean, this is a point where science fiction is. Oh, I'm sorry. The day after was 83. I apologize. Oh, okay.

So, all right. So there you go. I think it's so different. So, you know, I mean, this is the point at which we're seeing multiple You know, let's talk about realistically what is what is nuclear winter gonna look like what what is gonna happen? There's an amazingly effective gut wrenching British Animation called when the wind blows. I remember that one.

I think it's British. Yeah, it is. Because it has the same style as the Lord of the Rings. Yeah. I don't know. When the wind blows, that's just like, oh my God, just a gut punch that is about, hey, we're in England and there's been a nuclear exchange, and this is what we can all expect.

Yes. Nelted, melted, no bottles. Yeah. Yeah, and it's, it's, it's watershed down level of, of horrifying. Mm-hmm. Um, and then, of course, the, the day after. Yep.

And, and science fiction at this time, even outside of the zombie subgenre, the genre of S-Seph is full of everything is post-apocalypse, which is a little bit of an overstatement. But, you know, I get where you're going, yeah. You know, there's a huge number. I think it's around the same time that the short story of boy and his dog gets turned into a movie. Oh, yeah, yeah.

It had been the 70s. And let's talk about a bleak post-apocalypse story there. And I'm completely blanking on the author's name of the original short story. And somebody can correct us because, you know, I'm a couple of beers in and it's late at night. But, anyway, dangerous visions is the anthology of his that is most famous. And yeah, I'm ashamed of myself as a literary science fiction geek.

But anyway, I mean, this is when all of those kind of films are getting made because that's what's on everybody's mind because we have, you know, the government of the United States staring at the government of the Soviet Union across this ideological divide with each side backed up by enough thermodynamic clear weapons to reduce the planet to a cinder. Yeah. Oh, it's Harlan Ellison, you're thinking of.

Thank you. Sure. I was just realizing, because I was like, I even knew that because he also directed a bunch episodes of The Twilight Zone in the 1980s. So. Yeah. So, yeah. So, the problem I had with this movie in a large one was that it kind of Bobby from Dallas, in that as the trio is escaping, and they're finally getting outside, John and Bill cover Sarah so she can get to the helicopter.

And as she gets to the helicopter, hands reach out to grab her and then she wakes up from the nightmare. Oh, so you remember when Pam goes into the shower and she wakes up and turns out Bobby's there and it's a good morning. She wakes up, she's on a beach with the helicopter and the men are fishing by the shore.

And then she, and here is I think Romero, he kind of fell apart at the end quite honestly. She marty, or he didn't tidy up his writing. He, he, he, okay. All right. She marks her calendar and it's November the 4th, which is historically the day of the dead. I still think that they escaped and there's nothing to tell me that they didn't go through the whole ordeal, but it still just feels very half-witted. Like, it almost, it feels like that scene in the end of the Holy Grail, where everybody gets arrested because money Python ran out of money. So... Well, they ran out of money and they didn't end it.

Yeah. So here... They've always admitted endings where what out of money and they didn't end it. So here was admitted endings were what they like they couldn't do. Yeah, well, and that's that's a function of good slapstick, honestly, is their bits sewn together. It's not applied. So here we are with three different Romero zombie movies, right? And everyone else is just kind of holding space in between. Now the Romero movies have become the milestones, the measuring sticks for the rest of them, and zombies have gotten more ravenous and more numerous and bloodier, and humanity has gotten less hopeful, less capable, and really less human. I'm going to finish up by talking about Return of the Living Dead from 1985.

turn of the living dead from 1985. It was a comedy, but it actually introduces a fair amount of zombie lore into what becomes pretty canonically true of zombies in movies after this. Zombies in this movie specifically ate brains. They also taught, you know, and they ran. And I think that's interesting. Oh. Now, all of these things, yeah, all of these things are quite a bit more common afterwards,

but this is where they started. And the government actually nukes the city of Louisville, Kentucky with a tactical nuke. And even though it's a successful bombing, the graves begin to howl at the end telling us that another wave of zombies is coming. Now, per the usual, after a day of the dead, several zombie films came out and most of them are comedies of some sort as often happens. And there were some that just, you know, were movies that featured zombies, okay? But I think that's where I want to,

well, I'll talk a little bit more and then I'll stop when I get to flesh eater. So we've got one that codified running, brain eating, and slight talking. Now a couple of things are happening. Yeah. So this is not a Romero film. No, no. So Romero is not a Romero film. No. No.

So Romero has created three, three milestones and everybody's dancing around them. Okay. And now the title reminds us again of the title of this one. This was the return of the living dead. And it was a comedy. Return of the living yet. Okay. So, but here's the deal.

Okay. It directly builds on the Romero mythos. Like, I feel like. All of them are responding. One way or the other, Romero. Like I said, he has created the milestones. Oh yeah, no, he's definitely the true up codifier. I had always, like in my own head,

return of the living dead, which I have seen, which is a story in and of itself. But I always felt like it was a sequel within the night, dawn day, like universe, because if I'm remembering the opening sequence, it's like they find a barrel of something. Yes. Kind of toxic, I can't help warps in the middle of it. That's what winds up leading to the away. And it was like, this is a relic from this other zombie incident.

Oh, you're thinking of the sequel, you're thinking of the sequel. You're thinking of Return of the Living Dead Part 2. Oh, and that's not until 1980. Tar face. Yeah. Okay. Yeah. So prior to that, though, there's a couple things that are happening.

First of all, you've got cheap studio movies that are making their money back very easily as we've discussed before. Oh, yeah. Secondly, there were legitimately 15 zombie movies, or at least zombies that featured zombies, or movies that featured zombies from 1985 to 1987. Holy cow. Yeah.

It's really picking up steam. And by the way, that's going to be dwarfed in comparison to the 2000s. And it's also starting to invade more and more genres. Rom Combs, Black Exploitation films, Spy Thriller's Teen movies, Buddycott movies, et cetera, are all zombie movies too.

And zombies are featured in them because it's something that everyone at this point is aware of. However, the fear of these zombies is pretty widely lampooned and I think that's really interesting. It's only the Romero films that we see everybody actually being afraid of it. Everyone else just seems to think that they're set dressing and not worth analyzing. And perhaps that in itself is indicative of something. Because by 1987, the threat of nuclear annihilation

has been with Americans for almost 40 years, and it's faded to the background, and it's being ratcheted down. It's not an immediate or, is it a realistic danger to many people, just like the zombies. Okay. And if we're not taking it seriously, the amount of social commentary that such a movie can elicit is nearly non-existent. And that's where I'm going to stop for tonight. Okay. So if I figured out how to push the goddamn monitor button, we would be recording another episode already. You know, but as it is, yeah, we got to knock the bugs out of it.

Get back to this mode. Yeah, I think it's interesting because the first time when I saw return to the living dead part two, this would have been a 90 or 91. I was, I was in high school. And as I've said, um, teen times before, I'm a horror movie, Wimp. The only reason I wanted to watch it was because the circumstances surrounding the whole thing. Um, and I didn't pick up personally on it being that funny. Like, it didn't strike me as a comedy because of all of the horror movie trappings and me just not being a fan of the genre. Sure.

But looking back on it now, yeah, it's pretty clearly one. And the thing that I find that is now kind of sticking with me is what you said about zombies becoming set dressing in all of these. That, you know, yeah, yeah, okay, whatever zombies, yeah, fine. We're still in some other stories. Zombies is part of it, but it's, okay, whatever, zombies, yeah fine. We're telling this other story, zombies is part of it, but it's like, you know, the subgenre is a zombie thriller, a zombie comedy, a zombie, whatever. And the ubiquity of them,

and what you said about nuclear holocaust the ubiquity of them. And what you said about nuclear holocaust having become background noise. Yep. Background radiation as it were. In our daily lives, at that point, I think is really telling. That's amazing what you can normalize with cost and exposure. Yeah, yeah. Yeah. So I think I think that's my, I mean, at this point in our discussion of this,

that's my take away. Well, good. Yeah, I mean, you're right in track with kind of what I'm thinking. So of course, I think you're right. But yeah, I mean, ultimately, I do think that as existential threats fades, so do the zombies in our movies. So got anything for people to read? Not at present. Okay. I don't have any big recommendations at the moment. How about you?

Yeah, I have two. The first one is the zombie survival guide. So there were a series of survival guides that came out in the mid-early 2000s. And you could tell like zombies really really kicked in and we'll talk about why that is in a few episodes really kicked in in the early 2000s and somebody wrote a zombie survival guide and really it's a survival guide of well give it a read and think about who the zombies actually represent it is a decent survival gap though. It tells you about how to get by and filter water and stuff like that, but also what to do with a hoard of some type of people attack you. Here's how you can defend yourself from them.

So that would be the first one I recommend. The other one I recommend is actually a Star Wars book. And it is called, where did it go? I had it here in front of me. Death Troopers. Okay. Star Wars meets Zombies. There's actually two, two books of zombie stuff for the second one sucks. The first one is pretty good.

Well, the second one's set actually in pre, like in older Republic times, there's some cool stuff to it actually, but by and large, the second one, the first one that came out, Death Troopers, way better. It's about a prison ship. And of course, the only problem I have with it, spoiler alert, is that Han Solo and Chewbacca

end up on it. And it's like, you didn't need them for this to actually work, but what I love to get it was that there is this thing called a quorum virus. So essentially, once the bacterial count gets to be big enough to have a quorum in your body, then it takes over you. So it goes undetected until then. And the same thing is true in large groups of zombies.

They can cooperate, they can be made intelligent. Once there's enough of them, otherwise they're fairly ineffective and just kind of easy to pick off. So I thought that was kind of a cool little wrinkle in Star Wars in space. I like it. Yeah. So anyway, that's what I'm recommending. So where can people find you on the social medias?

I can be found on the social media at Mr. Blaylock on the Instagram and on TikkiTok. And at EH Blaylock on the Twitter. And where can you be found, sir? You could find me at Harmony, 2H is in the middle on both Twitter and Insta. That's pretty much all you'll find me at Harmony, two Hs in the middle on both Twitter and Insta. That's pretty much all you'll find me there right now. Also, by the time this drops, we may or may not be having our October show digitally,

but check me out on Twitch.tv-cappable-puns, and there's always a good pun show going on there. So those are the places you could find. And corporately, where and they find us. As a duo, we can be found on Twitter at Geek History Time. And our website, of course, is geekhistorytime.com. Geek History of Time. Of time.

Thank you. Geek History of Time.com. And the podcast itself, of course, can be found on Spotify, iTunes, and Stitcher. And so please go there, check us out. If you haven't done it already, please subscribe. Please give us the five stars that you know we deserve. And yeah, cool otherwise. All right. Well, for a geek history of time, I'm Damien Harmony.

And I'm Ed Blalock and remember, until next time, aim for the head.