A Geek History of Time - Episode 129 - Zombies Part V

Episode Date: October 16, 2021

So first thing foremost, I think being the addition of pant leggings is really when you start to see your heroes get watered down. The ability to go straight man, that one. Which is a good argument for absolute girls. Everybody is going to get behind me though, and the support number's going to go through. When you hang out with the hero, it doesn't go well for you. Grandfather took the cob and just slid it right through the bar. Oh, God. Okay.

And that became the dominant way our family did it. Okay. And so, both of my marriages, they were treated to that. Okay, wait, hold on. Yeah, rage, I could. How do you imagine the rubber chicken? My grandmother actually vacuumed in her pearls. Oh my god, you know what I'm saying.

We had the sexual revolution. It might have just been a Canadian standoff. We're gonna go back to 9-11. Oh, come on. Here we get it, over. And I don't understand the book, it's a school. Agra has no business being that big. With the cultists's way real big. This is a geek in three of time.

We connect here to the real world. It's a very old history and English teacher here in Garland, California. And I'm currently trying to cope with not getting to see my little boy for the next 48 hours. He is often visiting his grandma and his grandpa and his cousins because his mommy and I are going on a road trip tomorrow and staying overnight someplace. And on the one hand, I'm really happy about getting some time just to be with my wife again. On the other hand, coming home this afternoon, the house was way too quiet. And my wife was actually at a function for her work until close to 7 o'clock tonight. And I wound up, my, my mother called and I wound up having a, a solo

conversation with my mother for, you know, an hour, which hasn't happened in roughly three years, because now normally, of course, she's calling to see her grandson. So yeah, that's what I have going on. How about you? Well, I'm Damien Harmony. I'm a Latin teacher up here. The drama teacher up here in Northern California. And I, let's see, I was going to tie something to the silence of your house, but I think I'm just going to let that settle in as it is. But I am very much looking forward to

my next D&D session with my kids because we are getting close to the final act. I would say this is a five act adventure series. Oh wow, they are currently 10th level. Oh wow. Yeah, and the wizard is about to capture the princess and take her to his island. And my kids will end up in a mirrored room facing off against a beast that looks semi-apish and semi-human in a red velvet cloak who will be resistant, not merely resistant, invulnerable to all the attacks until one of them breaks a mirror. Nice. Yes.

And I'm looking very much forward to that specific combat. And then they'll go in, hopefully, to the unknown realms and help restore kingdom and end up fighting an NPC that they left behind. A long time ago. Who is not evil? He has simply been convinced that they are part of the plot.

Oh wow. So it'll be a good reunion. Nice. Nice, I like that. You know, and in thinking about the reference that you're making with that fight, thinking about the reference that you're making with that with that fight, I realize that that fight in Conan, the destroyer, is a cinematic answer to enter the dragon. By the way, yeah, you're right. You're absolutely right. Yeah, which like somehow recording this podcast with you

I made that connection like I've seen enter the dragon. I don't have any times seen Conan the destroyer I don't know how many times but like right now I realize oh shit. Mm-hmm. That's there's a there's a That's an homage right like okay Like, okay. Anyway. Neat. Yeah. So speaking of magical creatures with very specific vulnerabilities. Ah, you went out and watched the night of the day of the dawn of the sun, of the bride of the return of the revenge of the terror of the attack of the evil mutant alien flesh-eating hell-bound zombified living dead part two shocking 2D movie, didn't you? Yeah, I still want to see that written in German

No, no, I did not Okay, yes, I am I am bringing up the you know now canonical understanding If you want to take a zombie down you got to hit him in the head. Yes Which which I do want to point out since we're talking about the evolution of the genre over time That has actually bled over into Dungeons & Dragons game mechanics. Has it now? In fifth edition, there's a specific condition you have to cause damage to reduce the zombie to zero hit points.

And the zombie, I'm trying to remember whether it's like there's a saving throw on the part of the zombie or if there's some other effect you have to do. Right. I think they get a con save of some. Yeah. And otherwise they, they keep they continue to carry on at like one hit point. Yes. Because you've got to hit them in the head. Oh, that reflects that that reflects the idea that you've got to hit them in the head. Oh, that reflects that that reflects the idea that you've got to hit them in the head Okay, yeah, but they're also insanely easy to hit their AC is only eight. Oh, yeah, there are more classes But yeah, they basically they have to I'm looking it up if the damage reduces the zombie to zero hit points It must make a con save with a DC of five plus the damage taken

Unless the rate damage is radiant or from a crit Okay, so there's a headshot see yeah, honestly says the zombie drops to one hit point instead Yep, yeah, I just want to point out in the in the couple of fifth edition games that I have run uh-huh I threw some zombies at a group of player characters and they were under the second or third level. And it was like, there's zombies. This is not going to be a problem. And then I rolled hot for saving throws. And suddenly, and suddenly, and suddenly, and zombies like I had veteran D&D players, visibly scared at the table. Yes, because they're like, why won't they die?

Right. Yeah, it's good time. And then I, yeah, and then I showed them the page in the DMG and they're like, that's fucking evil. I said, well, yeah, it's rare that we roll that hot, but yeah, I know. Yeah. So in my game with my kids, zombies were never intelligent. So they would mob up even though they could easily move through each other's spaces.

I would have them like bottleneck, like crazy, because that's totally what happened, right? So my zombies were never tactical. Oh, no. And that helped, I think, balance the you can't kill them part because that was frustrating enough Well see the the encounter that I had designed had had the characters basically Stuck in a in a in a kind of a wide open room where the zombies were coming from more than one direction Oh, it's so they they were have a very hard time bottlenecking. I'm sure

more than one direction. Oh, it's so they they were have to very hard time bottlenecking them sure So part of that was my done just designed being you know unintentionally kind of bastardy right, but yeah so I like it. Yeah, I like it. Yeah, it was it was it was good times and you know I managed to avoid having it turning into a TPK Anything but I did I did definitely have the party looking at me like, you're not normally this kind of DM, man. Like, you can now shake them up. It's good to shake them up.

Normally the one. Yeah. Well, you know, okay, so in 1991, we left off in 1991. There were a lot of zombie movies through the 1990s early 90s that were either spoof or comedies Okay, so obviously there's the the one that I just mentioned eponymous entitled In 95 there was a straight to VHS VHS

Zombie movie called Ghost Brigade It was also called Grey Knight. I found it had been released under two different names. Um, it was also called the Lost Brigade and the Killing Box. I don't quite know what happened. Um, but here's the, here's the plot. Here's why it's noteworthy to me. Slave traders brought back voodoo practitioners whom they had enslaved and the Confederacy accidentally freed a zoo to a voodoo entity who zombified both North and South troops and what else could bind together the North and South at this time besides zombies. Interesting. Now here's where it gets fun. You remember Corbin Bernson? Yeah, he was in it. Well, it was the early 90s. Yeah. So he's

a strangely anti-slavery Confederate and he's joined in this film by Martin Sheen, Billy Bob Thornton, Andrian Pastar, the guy who played the older brother in heroes, David Arquette, Alexis Arquette, who at that time was still Robert Arquette. And I make that distinction only because this film has like one woman in it total. And Alexis Arquette didn't count. Also in it was Ray Wise, who played Leeland from Twin Peaks. He'd also been in West Side Story.

No. No, he hadn he had, I'm sorry, I'm confusing him with Robert, no, with the guy who played Dr. Gigi Kobi, the name will come to me later. But also Matt LeBlanc was in it. A friend. This is kind of a Mergerer's murderers row of early 90s like either up and coming or big names. Wow. Yeah, because in a shitty zombie movie straight to VHS zombie movie. Yeah. Martin. I mean, fucking shit. The bill. Yeah. I don't remember when the West money came out as a movie. Well, as a TV show rather, I don't remember when it came out, but it could be more than like six years after this, right? I'm going to have to look it up, but I think you're really you're in the ballpark. Yeah. And obviously friends had been around

since 94. So this had been filmed probably just before he got that part. And so Joey from Friends was in this movie. Holy shit. So the only reason I note this is because this in 95, it's also gonna be after Twin Peaks ended. So Ray Ys, Leeland was in it. And again, Billy Bob Thornton. was in it. And again, Billy Bob Thornton.

Yeah, I'm trying to remember when when Billy Bob Thornton became a slingblade. A name. Slingblade is the movie that did it. And I wanted, I know I was in high school and that came out. So it's roughly around the same time. Okay. All right. Yeah. So, huh. That doesn't mean that that was the first thing he had done because he played Johnny Tyler in Tombstone. Yeah. Why Johnny Tyler? Where are you going with that shotgun Johnny? That guy. Oh Wow. Yeah. All right. But yeah, the next year's sling blade came out 96 because I was oh shit. Yeah, okay So okay, uh-huh Next year, Slingblade came out, 96, because I was zero. Oh, shit, yeah. Okay. So, okay. Uh-huh.

I find this really interesting. Mm-hmm. I want to come back to Corbin Burns' character, because of the names involved at the time, Martin Sheen and Corbin Burns, and one of them the two biggest names. Yes. And Corbin Burns, and sounds like he's clearly the,

you know, protagonist, kind of following in this. And he is a anti-slavery Confederate. Well, yeah, I mean, they all really were. I mean, yeah, no, at the end of the day, that's what I wanted to get around to. I mean, the war wasn't even about slavery, so. Yeah, yeah, so, I mean, that's what I wanted to get around to again, is again,

we're talking about the 90s when, you know, well, you know, we got over racism, right? And but somehow we got over racism, but we're so scared to confront the reality of what racism was rooted in. They were going to make up fictional characters like this asshole. Right. Who's fighting in the Confederate army, but is anti-slavery. Right. Like, no, no, no, fuck you. If you're anti-slavery, you're wearing a blue fucking uniform. And even having that fight for the federal fucking cause like yeah no no fuck that um sorry this this is where I get heated and start using four-learn words and awful lot because like no now this movie also came out two years after Gettysburg did which was cinematically beautiful, but it just didn't hang together much as a movie.

No, you don't. Okay, so as a movie, it doesn't hang together very well as a treatment of the novel, the Killer Angels by Michael Chera. It's actually really good. Like as a fan of the novel, the movie is really good. As a movie, yeah, I get what you're saying, and I can't disagree. But, um, you know, and there are places where Genghisburg, even as much as I love the film, there are places where it falls down from a historical analysis angle. But yeah, it's not in here on his baddest guys in general. Oh, dear God. Yeah, these. I know.

At this point, I have to digress to recommend Atun Shea, atun.sh E I films on YouTube He is a re at least has been at some point a civil war reenactor And he is a historian He spends yeah, and he does a wonderful job dissecting Just exactly how all of these, you know, civil war films fuck things up. Nice. And, and yeah, he has, he has very, very strong words for God's generals in particular. And I'm pretty sure if you watched this foolish pile of nastiness,

as, you know, like, again, I come back around to the idea that we've got to create a character who is a Confederate because we're dealing with voodoo, so we've got to have slavery because it's an American film about these things. so we've got to have slavery because it's American film about these things. Also, we've got to be- We also love having an underdog though. And they were the underdog for the wrong cause, but you can't deny that they were outgunned, outmaned, outstrategied,ned out strategyed out moral Yeah, I was gonna say out out moral out ethics. Yes, all those things too like so underdogs American

Yeah, there's that weird rehabilitation that Holly would has literally forever done to the Confederacy well, okay, but you're keeping it because yeah, well, yeah God damn it So I think I think Holly will well, yeah, we can get into the cause and effect of it But I'm still just a mom on up on the fact that we've got to have you know, Corbin Burns and of LA law Playing you know a bullshit character like that. Like, oh, okay. Anyway.

So, so, yeah, zombie, zombie infestation union and federal troops have to fight together to fight off hordes of the undead. Yes. Yes. And that's really the only thing notable about the straight to VHS movie. It was the cast and the setting. I just something we keep coming back around to. Now, technically, we can that Bernie's part two is also a zombie film. Okay. Yeah,

that's all I'm going to say about it though. And through the rest, yeah. I find it interesting. We've skipped 295. Yes. Because everything's freaking comedies. Well, yeah, but you didn't mention Brain dead You're right or dead alive Mm-hmm Is that because they they don't meet some or it doesn't somehow meet the criteria for a zombie movie. Or because it was made in New Zealand. Yeah, it's, it's okay. So that's the, that's the, the, yeah, that's the, the 92 one, right?

Deadlift. Yeah. Yeah. That one is because, yes, it's, I'm sticking to American because that was a Peter Jackson film, if I recall, is maybe the movie that, that's the movie that gained him notoriety and got him Attention from Hollywood, right, which eventually led to him making the Lord of the Rings movies, right? Which you know, I find it's interesting the guy that they tapped to do the Lord of the Rings Was the director of zombie films. Yes, that's, he was a horror director. Right. But yeah, I stuck.

I spoke to a book conversation about that anyway. I stuck, I kept away from Italian and Spanish because it was just zombies and porn. I kept away from New Zealand and India and Canada because I'm not well qualified enough to speak to their political landscape at the time. Okay, yeah, so yeah. So, and I stuck away, I kept away most,

mostly from the British stuff, but there's a few that make it big in America, that so I'll cover those. So throughout the rest of the 90s, there's mostly comedy zombie movies, there's not that many other kinds of zombie movies. And I find it interesting because as we talked about it length last time, in the United States economy, as well as its relative prosperity existentially, the United States economy was singular in its paradigm shift

away from the Cold War that the culture had grown accustomed to. There was no faceless hordes coming to get us, Barbara. There were no real economic problems that the dominant culture paid any attention to. It's the economy, stupid, worked really well for people who were able to prosper. And a good deal of the anger toward the political leadership at the time amounted ultimately to making fun of the president and his family. It was nasty and it was shitty, but it was just very mocky.

So zombie films are mostly just fun. The hordes are not as big a threat threat because there's no cold war and we haven't gotten so polarized yet. I mean, it's in the process of setting the groundwork for the polarization. Well, the drift is beginning. Yes. So ultimately, very few zombie movies made it to the theater too. And I think this is partly due to the lack of movies opening in theater in general because the VHS market was taking off in the early to mid 90s. Blockbuster was ascendant as were a few other Johnny come lately. And here's here's some fun statistics. In September of 91, there were over 1500 blockbuster stores by 96. There were over 1,500 blockbuster stores. By 96, there were 3,300 blockbuster stores.

By 99, there were 4,500 blockbuster stores. That's a lot of stores that you got to keep stocked with VHSs. And zombies were relatively inexpensive to make as we're most horror films. And companies did their best to monetize that. So you would go to the horror section and you I mean it was rose and rose and rose in certain stores. Of movies you never heard of. The horror section was the biggest yep biggest part of the store because again as we discussed I think back in the first episode of this series, horror movies

are cheap to make. And you can make your money back and then start making profit on them almost immediately. That's exactly right. Yeah. Do you remember, and just talking about the growth of Blockbuster, what I think is interesting is, you know, we now like to, you know, think about as gin exers, we like to talk about, oh, hey, I'm old enough that like I have a, I have a blockbuster card somewhere, you know, tucked away.

Do you remember before blockbuster, there was the warehouse. Was that a Southern California thing or was that a work for the national? No, the warehouse existed but it was a music store up here. See where I was, it was music store and yeah it started expanding into video rental. Yeah. I don't recall it expanding into video rental, but it could just be that we just were brand loyal, or I didn't have any attention. You know? But yeah, that was before, and then I remember the warehouse store

in my neighborhood going under because they'd been driving out of business by the way. A lot faster. I remember that happened in, okay, so where I lived, it was Walnut Creek. There were two copy centers for Xeroxing. Actually, there was a third, but I never went there.

There was Krishna copies, literally a copy store run by Harry Krishnas. And there was Kinkos. And Kinkos, because they had such a chain, they were able to undercut Krishna copies. And I remember the copy wars because originally, it was five cents a copy, and then Krishna copies was like five cents a copy, and then kinkos dropped it

to four cents a copy, and Krishna copy, dropped it to four cents a copy, hoping that people would still be brand loyal. And then kinkos dropped it to two cents a copy and Christian copy drop it to four cents a copy, hoping that people would still be brand loyal. And then Kinkos dropped it to two cents a copy and Christiana couldn't drop it any further. And they ended up going out of business because two cents a copy, man. And then Kinkos raised that shit to eight cents a copy. Oh, yeah. Be it like you do. But I remember that. Because capital is a me. Well, and the thing is, is that unfortunately we came up at a time where the coaches, where the ones that taught government and econ, so that meant that they read the chapter slightly before you.

And unfortunately, because I remember when it was happening, I was like, man, this would be such a good lesson in my econ class. Yeah. So I ended up using it in mine. But so yeah, very few movies making it to theater, blockbusters going crazy, and yet in the 1990s, there's fairly notable drop-off overall in this genre beyond the comedy. Okay, so it's only used for comedy. Now you get to October of 2001

Okay October 2001 Lou Diamond Phillips and Lori Petty starred in a movie called root 666 It's a traveling zombie film. It's the first post 911 zombie movie that I could find and I thought that that was significant post 9-11 zombie movie that I could find and I thought that that was significant. This is what was so it was released in October. Yes. Yes. So but it was filmed prior to 9-11. Yeah, okay. Fair. Yeah. So this film's going to get fucked. How the hell can you, like, you know, I mean, I would be, maybe that's my next podcast, is looking at films that were filmed prior to 9-11 and released after and seeing which

ones did well and which ones didn't all right We'll see we'll see that's a little too obsessive even for me, but Yeah, we're good. Yeah So it's the first post 9-11 movie and it is one of those movies that at least sort of slow burns it Okay, there's a fair amount of character interaction before the problem of zombies is even introduced. There's a person who knows too much about the mob who's being chased by a Russian hitman and the US marshals.

After a shootout, they have to get the witness to LA, which means taking back roads so as to lose their pursuers. And this puts them in small town America. Think cars before cars was a movie. Okay. It's roughly the same. So naturally they stop off in a cemetery because why not make it like night of living dead. It turns out that the Marshall's dad is buried there. And the criminal and the Marshall begin to fight over the fact that a local sheriff's deputy tells the Marshall about his own father's criminal background.

This gives the hitman, the Russian hitman, the chance to catch up and fire on them. Another fight ensues, and the hitman gets killed, but of course that fight awakens the zombies. Then there's a running fight with the zombies being restricted to the cursed highway of Route 666. A fun wrinkle to that is that there's still somewhat following a Romero's formula, as the criminal, nicknamed Rabbit, is black. The zombies are all dead members of a chain gang that mysteriously died.

It turns out, and the spirit of the Marshall's dad is part of the chain gang who were brutally steamrolled to death. Okay, I'm just going to point out as a practical issue here. If the subs, okay, so are the spirits of the chain gang inhabiting other bodies or these supposed to be the corpse of a chain gang? Yeah. Okay, so these are the animated corpses of the chain ganging question. Yeah.

Well, how are they standing on limbs that were crushed by a steamroller? Well, I mean, when you're steamrolling soft dirt and they're in a hole, yeah, push the munder, but then they're suffocated. You know, I'm still calling bullshit. No, sorry. Oh, okay.

No, like if you had said that they were, you know, the victims of, you know, corrupt prison guards who, you know, shot them all claiming they were trying to escape. Sure. I mean, like, like, but if you have that, you don't have them climbing up out of the earth

into which they had been steamrolled So we need that Do we apparently okay in a post-9 11 world maybe we don't okay in a pre-9 11 world I think there's clearly clearly I guess we did okay So the Marshall and his dad spirit bond for a little bit kind of field of dream Z and Marshall and his dad's spirit bond for a little bit kind of field of dreamsy. And then the spirit goes on and kills his fellow zombies who until this point didn't really follow the Romero rules. Oh, did I mention that a Native American visited the Marshall and told them to heal the land?

Okay, Lou Diamond Philips plays the Marshall, right? No, he... Yes, yes, yes, he's the US Marshall. Yes. Okay. Yeah. So is it? Okay, I assume based on the way Lou Diamond Phillips has has historically been cast. Uh-huh. Is there some kind of claim that he is his character is somehow part Native American? Yeah, I mean, there's some hint. It's into that.

Yeah. So his dad's spirit helps him free the spirits of the dead men, of course. And then he kills off the easel sheriff who's been keeping people from finding out the truth and then everything's all right. Okay, I'm thinking this feels more like a ghost movie than a zombie.

I mean, there's in many way I made a corpses exactly exactly they're they're evidence rather than zombies. Yeah, that's a good way to put it That's a good way to put it. Yeah, yeah Yeah, you totally stole my thunder action. I'm sorry. That's okay So so yeah, I my point is that this could not have been written after 9-11. After 9-11, we hated all people criminal period. They were not sympathetic in any way, share performed.

There was no reforming them. We had 24, we had the shield. We had all these kinds of things where... Everything got very harsh. I was about to say very black and white, but then you mentioned the shield and I was like, yeah, no, that's pretty black and gray. The interesting wrinkle here is that you can actually fix what happened by killing the people behind the atrocity.

So there's that. But and while they are corporeal like like you and I pointed out, the last detail kind of leads me to want to classify it as a ghost movie. And I see that you agree. Yeah. Yeah. And then we get to 2002 and you get a bit of a revitalization of the genre. There's a British film called 28 Days Later. Not the sequel to the Sandra Bullock rehab movie. I was confused. But again, I started doing that with like movies that had similar names. So for instance, us is not the sequel to this is us. Okay, yeah. Yeah.

So, again, a lot of audience in America, which is why I'm actually breaking form to address a British film. It is a very British film, though. There's an infected chimpanzee that gets freed by a group of animal liberation activists. It spreads quickly amongst the international populations and brings about the collapse of society.

28 days after the initial outbreak, Jim awakens from a coma in a deserted hospital in London. He gets attacked by infected humans, but he's rescued by the survivors Selena and Mark. Mark gets bitten and Selena has to kill Mark before Mark turns. Pretty soon they accumulate more partners and they head toward what they think is a safe haven in Manchester. And what keeps happening in many zombie movies where the world is destroyed ends up happening here. The remaining survivors are brought to a fortified mansion under the command of a major.

But it turns out it was all a lie and it's really just intended to lure female survivors into sexual slavery to repopulate the world and eventually Jim and Selena and company destroy this enclave and let the zombies get to everyone as they escape. I want you to remember this specifically when I get to about 2009. That just that description. Another 28 days later, Jim recovers in a remote cottage in Cumbria where the infected are shown as dying of starvation. So it's not just unending hunger, it they will starve out. And then a finished plane travels overhead showing that other places have actually either rebuilt or were never really this bad off, which I love that. This movie is significant for a lot of reasons, not the least of which is that the zombies run fast now.

Oh yeah, the subtype of rage zombies, as opposed to, well because this series, they're explicitly not yet dead. Right. They're diseased and they are maddened by infection with the virus. Yes. But they are still alive. They are effectively, they are how to put it. They're zombies in effect, but not zombies in actuality. In actuality. Yeah, in actuality.

So these zombies that they're running, this is not the first running zombies we've seen. We saw that earlier, I believe, in the dawn of the dead, or it might be mixing up with the one that came after. The one where they're moving. Okay. Yeah. Yeah.

But these are, like you said, rage running, right? They're, they've got a hell of a lot of speed built up when they run. There's explosive zombies, you know, in terms of their speed, they're like a running back. Yeah, yeah. So. And they're, and they are again, I wanna say this again,

because I think it's an important, I don't know if evolution is the right way to put it, but they are de facto zombies, but they are not de-jure zombies, because they're still alive. They are dying as, you know, they do what they do, because the virus is eventually going to be lethal. Yeah. But they are still living. They have a heartbeat. Yes. You know, and so I think there's an interesting wrinkle there that, you know, it's about survival against mindless individuals who are full of rage. And the idea that they are the walking dead is no longer part of the equation.

It's not their numbers that are going to get you. It's a sprinter that's going to get you. And yeah, before they'd like trotted and gambled, quickly towards you, right? But now it's like full on sprinting. So even though there's a hoard there that you can pace, one of them might still get you at random, which is a different thing. It's not just mobbing that will get you,

right? They can just simply predator to you to death. And this is post 9-11. So in the US, it becomes a surprise hit. It took over $45 million in despite a limited release at fewer than 1,500 screens across our country. In many ways it really kind of invigorated the, reinvigorated the zombie franchise, it reinimated it, if you will, as a concept. And after this movie there were many more serious zombie movies that came out. And I find it interesting that this was done under George W. Bush's presidency. This, along with Resident Evil, even though that one's based on a video game, has been credited with the

revival of the zombie movies. And the zombie revival trend lasts for more than a decade after 28 days later. So 28 days plus 10 years, before eventually declining popularity by the, I mean, really after 2013, I want to say, it really starts to just trail off and there's only just a few things left. Now, the uptick and the eventual decline both occurred during a Republican presidency during the Fox News era. And I'm going to come back to those two things in a little while. But I just want to plant that seed there because I think that's the analysis that that that is born out of is frankly shallow and and missing a larger cultural context that's that's going on. It's not to say that it doesn't have value. It does. But it's only,

you know, it's kind of like you're describing a sock only by what's at the toe instead of how the sock works. The toe is vital to the sock, but it's not the whole sock. But it's not the whole picture, right? So, so first we need to talk about Resident Evil though. Did you ever play that game? Is that a thing that you enjoyed? Once, once or twice, I wouldn't say it, Joy. Once or twice, I played it, uh, or versions of it in the arcade, I think. Okay. I, I, I, I didn't know it was an arcade game. I, I've only noticed that I might, I might be thinking of something else. I might be thinking of house of the dead or something that could be related kind of thing. Yeah. Zombie shooter games have never been my bag.

Got you. Until playing until you know playing with you and producer George. But like and that's and that's Call of Duty Zombies, which I think is its own thing. Yeah. Yeah. But like you know, oh, hey, this is a zombie shooter game. I'm gonna go buy this to play on my own. Right. You know, again, I'm, I'm, I'm no good with scary movies. Right, right.

You know, and so the whole, the whole genre of horror games is one I look at. And I'm like, why would I do that to myself? Mm-hmm. Like, I'm gonna be sitting downstairs by myself playing this. Right. Right. I'm going to inflect that on myself on purpose. Like no. Yeah. Well, in this particular video game is very story based. Right. And it's a very very popular story. So I never really got into it either. I think it's because it was a PlayStation game, not an Xbox game. It was fair.

The zombies in Resident Evil were secondary villains to something called the Umbrella Corporation. But through the movie, the zombies begin to gain menace as they go along. The zombiesness is due to corporate greed again and can even be reversed by antiviral medication. And in this particular movie, this particular resident evil, everyone is keen to take the thing that will keep them safe. But the umbrella corporation is also keen on controlling who gets what? The protagonist is a woman who has no memory of why she's involved in all of this, but she has really, really good abilities, oddly enough. Also, she's being escorted by a group of paramilitary folks and people die along the way, including Michelle Rodriguez.

At the end of the film, everything gets solved. Most of the people are dead and our protagonist has the cure. And then she's whisked away by the Emberlo Corporation and when she wakes up next she's strapped to a medical table in an abandoned hospital and eventually finds that the whole outside is equally abandoned. She grabs a shotgun from nearby car, raks it and the movie ends. All right. And what starts a new pattern in zombie movies this movie gets wildly panned and makes a lot of money. Yes. Yeah. In fact, the resident critical, Dreck, but everybody watches it. Yeah. Yeah. And it's because the resident evil franchise, and that's counting movies, video games, books, comics, et cetera, is considered the highest-earning zombie franchise in history.

So clearly being based on a video game was part of it both being panned and being wildly successful. Because everybody wants to see how they do the video game that they liked. More importantly though, it showed a commercial viability for zombie movies and it kept zombies in people's minds Many people credit this franchise was reviving a fairly flaxed zombie genre. I would say 28 days later did that The game itself was well, I think they did it in concert the game itself was, well, I think they did it in concert. The game itself was wildly popular. They introduced a new way of operating the controls, spawned tons of sequels and the like.

It's rated as one of the top 15 most influential games of all time because it gave a much more cinematic feel to the survival-based game. Okay. There were cutscenes, you know, which was, that still happened, but like these cutscenes felt more like the video game, not like. And now, a word from our king. Yeah. So what's not groundbreaking about this movie, but it is still hugely influential is the fact that it has an ingrained distrust of the corporations and ultimately of scientists.

distrust of the corporations and ultimately of scientists. Science explains this outbreak, not magic, not spirituality, science, and it's still Pandora's box. It still gets everywhere and fucks up everything. It's deadly and it's awful, but science does explain it. So because of Resident Evil, science becomes the main culprit, and we don't really see Haiti as any kind of influence anymore. That disappears. And I really have to wonder if this isn't due in part to the successful propaganda

efforts of creationists softening peoples' regard for science. Now, you're looking at me as sconce. I, well, okay, here's, here's, okay, well, here's, here's what I'm going to my initial response before before you receipts. I think the fact that those assaults are there in the first place true. I don't know how ready I am to give those specific voices that level of power. Well, let me pay the picture for you. Yeah. All right. So in 1999, the Kansas State Board of Education was assailed by the Intelligent Design Folk's Remarketing campaign to at once promote creationism as science and to pull down evolution as quote just a theory. As a result the phrase teach the controversy enter the Alexa con in 1999. Now previous to that 1987 during the Edwards versus Aguilar decision in the

Supreme Court that stated that creationism in a science class is unconstitutional. Because in Louisiana, they love Muhammad so much that they passed the law stating that the biblical creation story had to be taught in whatever public schools the theory of evolution was taught. This violates the first amendment because it was a state law that was expressly created to promote a specific

religion. And in the majority decision, six justices said that, quote, teaching a variety of scientific theories about the origins of humankind to school children might be validly done with a clear secular intent of enhancing the effectiveness of science instruction. This court case in 1987 made use of something called the 1971 lemon test from lemon versus curtsman that stated that any law regarding religion must successfully address three prongs. So you have to address all three. 1. The statute must have a secular legislative purpose.

This is known as the Purpose Prong. Two, the principal or primary effect of the statute must neither advance nor inhibit religion. This is called the Effect Prong. And three, the statute must not result in, quote, an excessive government entanglement with religion. This is known as the entanglement prong. You have to avoid all three for it to be okay. If you get hit on any of those three, it is

unconstitutional. And teaching creationism in the schools does that. Now factors for these prongs include the following. If you take a look at the character and the purpose of the institution that's benefiting from it. If you take a look at the character and the purpose of the institution that's benefiting from it, if you look at the nature of the aid that the state provides, and if you take a look at the resulting partnership between government and religious authority. Now, if any of these prongs is violated by the new law, it runs afoul of the First Amendment's establishment clause, which states that, quote, Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment

of religion or prohibiting the free exercise they're off. So when intelligent design advocates lost that case in 87, they accepted the decision gracefully, recognizing that they were wrong and exceeded to the constitutional limitations put on a religious content and its propagation in public schools. I'm sorry. Have you ever met a creationist in real life? Yeah, I'm just kidding. They started a thing.

Yeah, okay. And when you're a zealot and you believe that society has been wrecked culturally by the materialism inherent in science, and the decay that naturally comes from it because science seeks only natural explanations and is therefore atheistic. You're not about to go quietly into the night. Heck no, you are going to propagandize like a radio, white supremacist preacher because truth is not on your side. So rhetoric has to be your go-to. You have to hope that people are dumb enough to miss what you're doing because if they're not, you're absolutely going to lose to the fact that the facts point elsewhere. So they started a think tank. Rich people and their fucking think tanks in Seattle especially.

They started... Oh God. I swear, I wonder sometimes at the if we could measure the material damage that think tanks have done. I mean, yes, they sponsor, uh, you know, uh, PBS specials, but at the same time, you gotta be fucking kidding. Well, the Rand Corporation by itself was responsible for, yeah, a lot of shit. Yeah. And my understanding of the Dung beetle. So, yeah. Okay. A lot of shit. Yeah. And my understanding of the Dung beetle. So, yeah.

Okay, well, give it a take. There you go. Yeah. So in Seattle, Washington, they start something called the Center for Science and Culture in 1996. So listen to how these dates are lining up, right? From the efforts of the prior think tank that had been based there, which was called the Discovery Institute.

Now, both of these think tanks were essentially set up as non-profits, which I love, that were intent on forcing creationism into the schools and squeezing out evolutionary theory. So, they're not just saying, like, let's have parity. They're saying, no, we're going to box that one out. And with the think tank comes a lot of money and a lot of people strategizing. In fact, that's some people's entire job. The intelligent design folks will make good use

of Stephen Meyer and Philip Johnson. Now both of these men came up with something called the wedge strategy and the quote, teach the controversy strategy. The wedge strategy comes out of the Discovery Institute's Manifesto, and any institute that has a Manifesto, I have to wonder, and it's essentially a metaphor based on wood shopping, okay?

You know how a wedge is working wood shopping. The wedge strategy had two sets of goals, one, a five year goal, and two, a 20 year goal. In doing things this way, they become mainstream. The wedge strategy sought to promote a social conservative agenda on a wide range of issues, including abortion, euthanasia, sexuality, and other social reform movements.

In order to do this, it requires a coordinated attack on, quote, materialist reformers who advocated coercive government programs. And quote, which this group, the the wedge strategy referred to as quote, a virulent strain of utopianism. Okay, why wouldn't one one? Yes, one. Right off the bat. Why wouldn't we want to live in utopia? Right. Like, what the fuck? Uh-huh. Viral and strange utopianism. What is, come on.

Right. You are claiming to be Christian. Right. You're claiming to be conservative Christian. Yes. The idea of the city of God is itself a utopian idea. Yeah, but they've already got the market corner drawn that one. You don't get to get one down here.

Yeah, okay, fine. Fuck you, whatever. Anyway, number one, just the idea that anybody would use a phrase as fucked up as a virulent strain of utopianism, like, to fuck you. We want to make the world a better place. One, two, I find it remarkable that, well, not remarkable. I find it totally predictable, but worth pointing out that this is all tied in with all of the other, social conservative,

right-wing Christianity, bullshit. Uh-huh. You know, and as a Christian, like as a, not going to church as often as I should, but as a believer, it just, and I know I've complained about this any number of times before, but it just pisses me off to hear these people talking this

way. Like, don't you get that, that the whole lesson we're supposed to follow as Christians is we're supposed to make the world better. Like, we're not supposed to cling to the good old days because the good old days were when we were being eaten by lions in the fucking Coliseum. Which actually never happened, but yeah. But yes, when we were being actively persecuted by the Roman government, how about that? That actually happened, yes. Yeah. Yeah. But you know,

but then it took over as a state religion. So, see and need. And they're very half the root of so many of modern Christianity's problems that dates like fucking constantly. There you go. Which, you know, as a Catholic,

it's even funny to me to hear me saying that. But, you know, just why do you all have to be like this? Why? Why? Why can't you let the rest of us have nice things? God damn it. Well, I would also point out that like luckily we've changed since then and everything's Oh, no, it's the exact No, it's yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah So this meant in their strategy a soft hand you promote creation of popular level books newspaper magazine articles op-ed pieces video production seminars Books, newspaper, magazine articles, op-ed pieces, video productions, seminars. It's the seminars that make me wonder if this is a grift, though, because seminars are

always a grift. It doesn't seem to be. It says, you know, the guy who, as part of his professional development, asks to attend seminars on a regular basis. I arrest my case. Yes. No, but even even teacher kid in the screen.

Even OK, what's all the money who's getting paid for me being here? Right. How long has it been since they were a teacher? How many times again tell me they gave their heart to the students when they were in a classroom and how much they miss it? But what? tell me they gave their heart to the students when they were in a classroom and how much they miss it. But, but even with the preponderance of seminars, which are very clearly evidence of GRIFT, I actually don't think that this whole thing is a GRIFT, which is sadder.

They actually believe this and their efforts are all part of the strategy to embolden believers, as well as diminish those who think that such things are dumb, swaying the broader culture toward accepting intelligent design. And if not accepting it, certainly sitting there going, well, you know, there's truth on both sides, it's a complex issue, you know, the false message. Okay. You know, all right. I'm, I'm, I am a proponent of the idea that there is, there is a on, on some issues of belief. There, there is a dividing line between straight up fact and truth with a capital T, that I can believe in the existence of God, and that can be truth to me. Whereas it is not a provable fact. With that being being said. Anybody who wants to try to pedal literal creationism and try to bring anybody to you will you know there's truth on both sides. No, no, you're ignoring so many contextual

issues like the story tellers who are responsible for the story that Genesis evolved out of We're not telling it as a literal story of fact, right Nobody nobody thought that Genesis was a literal no no There were only two human beings and they were in this garden and there was this specific tree. Nobody fucking believed that until American fucking evangelicals. Which by the way, that doesn't come around until more people are literate, which is a really sad irony of it all. Yeah, I know.

But so if you can sway the dumber broader culture into accepting the viability of intelligent design then You basically are going to lead to the ultimate goal of your wet red strategy Which is a social and political reformation of the American culture? You might remember such wedge books as Darwin on trial such wedge books as Darwin on trial. The wedge is simply put, forcing people to choose between science that you can challenge their understanding on or the pleasant poetry of the Bible. In 2002, Johnson, one of the guys that is really a big

mover and shaker in this, said, quote, the mechanism of the wedge strategy is to make it attractive to Catholics, Orthodox, non-fundamentalist shaker in this said quote, the mechanism of the wedge strategy is to make it attractive to Catholics, Orthodox, non-fundamentalist Protestants, observant Jews, and so on. And in a speech from his speech at a 1999 conference at Baylor in Waco, Texas, he said, and is a bit of a long quote, to talk of a purposeful or guided evolution is to talk, is to not to talk about evolution at all. That is slow creation. When you understand it that way, you realize that the Darwinian theory of evolution contradicts not just the book of Genesis,

but every word in the Bible from beginning to end. It contradicts the idea that we're here because a creator brought about our existence for a purpose. That is the first thing I realized, and it carries tremendous meaning. He goes on. I have built an intellectual movement in the universities and churches that we call the wedge, which is to... No, no, no, no. No, you don't get to use the word intellectual fuckface. Well, he does, because it's a convention in Waco, Texas.

Fuck you. No. Which is devoted to scholarship and writing that furthers this program of questioning the materialistic basis of science. One very famous book, I'm so insulted that he uses the word scholarship. Yeah, like, oh God. One very famous book that's come out of the wedge is I mean, he's straight up saying, this is our theory, this is our strategy.

I mean, it is the most bald and naked. It's like a dolphin. Uh, it's, it's the cornerstone speech for creationists. Yes. Yes. So one very famous book that's come out of the wedge is a biochemist Michael B. He's book, Darwin's Black Box, which has it had an enormous impact on the scientific world. I have to sneeze. I think I'm going to keep that in. On the scientific world. I have to vomit. Just mute your mic.

That way nobody heard my sneeze. Now the way that I see the logic of our movement at going is like this. The first thing you understand is that Darwinian theory isn't true. It's falsified by all the evidence and all the logic is terrible. When did you realize that the next question that occurs to you is, well, where might you get the truth?

When I preach from the Bible, as often, as I often do at churches and on Sundays, I don't start with Genesis. I start with John 1, 1. In the beginning was the Word, and in the beginning were intelligence, purpose, and wisdom. The Bible had that right, and the materialist scientists are deluding themselves. Yeah. Okay. So I think it's important to point out here. Yeah. At this, at this point, at this juncture, in the conversation, that the Vatican has come out and said that the preponderance of the evidence points in the direction of evolution being.

Yes. The mechanism for the development of life. Yeah. And so there were those liberal political progressive institutions. They always happen. That was under Benedict for Foxake. Yeah. If I'm remembering correct fanboy.

Yeah. The the Pope and fewer. Yeah. Yeah, just total. I mean, just yeah, yeah, just a complete less. Less dist. Yeah. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

Clearly atheist secularist. Yeah. Like he's a Nazi anti fascist. I mean, yeah, yeah, yeah. Well, you know, and antifa all are right. But no, so what just drives me up the wall about this is the people who are driving the movement are knowingly responsible movement are knowingly responsible for knowingly misrepresenting everything Darwin said. Yes.

Like, and for knowingly and intentionally lying, like committing falsehoods in pursuit of, I have never been able to grok what their endgame is other than finding some kind of religious excuse to oppress women and people of color. And, you know, people who have this, had white dudes. It's the regressive populist reaction to increase plurality, to demographic shift.

And it's the, tell me that you've enjoyed the benefits of white supremacy without admitting that you've enjoyed the benefits of white supremacy. It's you've enjoyed the benefits of white supremacy. Yeah, okay. Alright, granted. But like, when, and the thing is, so the people that are at the leadership level of all of this, the ones who run the think tanks and come up with the talking points and came up with a wedge strategy in the first place, with the talking points and came up with the wedge strategy in the first place. Then wind up creating situations where I vividly remember, vividly remember that it must have been

junior year of high school. I was in, no, a sophomore year of high school. I was in biology. And we were studying, we had the unit in high school biology where we talked about evolutionary theory in Darwin. And this was in 90. Okay. And I remember we started the unit and it was a day or two after the unit had started We started the unit and it was a day or two after the unit had started. It's an art class, which I had like fifth period during the day, if I remember right. Later in the day, I had biology, third period, and then on like second or last period of the day was art. And I'm not going to name the classmate because I don't want to be like that here, but a classmate of mine was trying to counter

What we'd what we'd learned that day in biology class By saying was your grandmother a gorilla. Oh, yeah, one of those. Was your grandma monkey? Yeah. No name of student. That's, that's not how it works. Well, but, but was she? Like, and like, it was so clear that he was trying and failing, because he was not the brightest match in the box to engage in some strategy that somebody, like as a sophomore in high school, I can tell somebody put this idea in your head. Yeah, and I'm actually gonna, I'm gonna get to this

because what you're talking about is the disingenuousness of rhetoric masquerading a zealotry because there are enough zealots who don't have the intelligence to understand when rhetoric is being used on them. Yes. Yeah. Yeah. And that's why they're able to talk so openly about we have this here strategy

called the wedge strategy. Like they're saying the thing he parts out loud because they know that the people who are that's hawks so openly about, we have this here strategy called the wedge strategy. Like they're saying the think he parts out loud because they know that the people who are who are zealots don't have the actual intellectual capacity to realize that they're being used. Yeah, or don't care that they're being used. Yeah. So here's my favorite. Oh, go on. But you know, it's just it's it's notable because that was that was actually the first time I think I ever actually wanted to reach up to heaven and

Smite somebody. Huh? Like like reach up and get get the divine bolt of justice and just scrub him fucking with it. Just Oh my god, I cannot recall a time in high school when I was ever so un reasonably angry at a classmate. And there were so many times I was so pissed off at my peers. But like that moment was like no you you I want to fuck you up so badly right now. Yeah yeah there's there are a high degree of fundamentalists who just like and all they had was that first veneer Of rhetoric, but they said it was such confidence and forcefulness that that would back most people off Now my favorite quote of this guy is this he says quote our strategy has been to change the subject a bit

So that we can get the issue of intelligence design which really really means the reality of God, before the academic world and into the schools. So he straight up admitting to the propaganda, and as any zealot will later do, the ends justify the means. I don't know if he's a zealot or not. I know that he is a very good retarotician. Now the second thing, the second, the second strategy they came up with was to teach the controversy campaign. This was the main mechanism for the wedge strategy. Whereas the wedge strategy was about the constant assault on state, country, federal governments,

as well as flooding the print media sphere. Just imagine what they could do with their own network if they had their own network. The teach the... That's not funny. That's living in 2021, that is not funny. The teach the controversy was the begging of the question that they used to do it. Teach the controversy says, well, they have science. We have our own science, as though such a thing exists.

And since it's just as smart sounding, and because we branded it as science, it's the exact same thing. And if you flood the channel with that much chaff, people will naturally attract to the center, despite they're not being a center. This is a really bald use of the grave fallacy. They wanted to use the rhetorical tricks to replace science with the quote, the theistic understanding that nature and human beings are created by

God. Scientists, people paid to do science, people trained to do science. People trained to do science. Scientists. They have repeatedly stated, there is no controversy. And they're right. But that doesn't actually sell newspapers or add time. Luckily back then, the federal courts were filled with people who could read. And a federal court along with and I'd like to point out it was not good back then it really wasn't good back then no it was not and yet i'm looking back on it as the housey on days but but the present sets such a low bar yes Yes. Yeah. So the federal courts, along with the majority of scientific organizations, including the American Association for the Advancements of Science, they call this what it is. They called it a manufactured controversy

that creationists want to teach by promoting a quote false perception that evolution is a quote theory and crisis by repeatedly and nauseatingly falsely claiming it is the subject of wide controversy and debate while in fact there is no controversy or debate within the scientific community about whether or not evolution exists. My favorite example is if you argue with a creationist and you and they say, well, where's the missing link? And you point out the missing link, they say, aha, now there's two holes because between the link and the first thing and then the link on the second thing. So now there's two gaps instead of just one. There's two gaps instead of just one. Okay, I haven't heard, literally, I have not heard a philosophical argument that dumb.

Yeah. Since, since, well, you can't move. And I can, well, you have one, but you can't move and I can prove it, which, you know, the, you know, in order to get from point A to point B, you have to get halfway from point A to point B. Yeah. You don't have to get halfway. Yeah. And it's like, okay, that's really great right up until I walk up and punch you in the fucking neck.

Yep. Yep. Like. So Professor Brian Alters, an expert in the creation evolution controversy, I'm putting that in scare quotes, said, quote, 99.9% of scientists accept evolution. I of course want to know who that 0.1% are, but it's probably people who just, you know, claim to be scientists. I know I know of the 0.1% of science teachers. I've met. Yeah. Yeah. So while while intelligence designs simply lacks the scientific basis upon which its

proponents claim it sits. So it's not a discussion. It's you come to me with a spaghetti noodle saying, okay, I'm ready to enter the Westminster Abbey dog show. And I say, where's your dog? You say, I have this. This is my dog. And it's like, no, that is a piece of spaghetti that's not even cooked. You say, well, there's controversy here. No, there's not. This is a dog show, sir.

This is a dog show. Fuck off. So now because of the success of this campaign, eventually a federal court in Pennsylvania, fucking Pennsylvania, heard the case, and in December of 2005, you had the case Kits Miller versus Dover Area School District. The presiding judge, John E. Jones III stated that intelligent design isn't science. And also, quote, cannot uncouple itself from its creationist and thus religious into sedents.

And quote, this is because it's the same fucking thing. That's my commentary, not his. Yeah. Although I swear I hear that in his tone. The Dome of ruling also characterized teaching the controversy as a part of a religious ploy. But that's in 05. In 99, it had just gotten started and by 02, shit was heating up. We did not know which way this was gonna go

and we saw this increase. To the point where by 2002, which by the way, luckily for us, we had a president who totally believed in science at that time and got voted for because of that. The messaging was strong enough that people saw science as some sort of personified being on some level, something that has only increased in the last 20 years. You do recall the last time we had inferno season last year where Trump was in

California and he said, quote, I don't think science knows when he was talking about the causes of our wildfires. Science isn't a person. So that personification and the willingness to ascribe to its sinister motives and a lack of overall trust combined with the proven shiftingness of Enron corporation's culture of Gryft and Harm that it did to literal thousands in 2001

helps the resident evil franchise popularize the umbrella corporation. Also keep in mind what's in our background. Dolly the sheep was in 1997. Jurassic Park was in 1993. There was fertile ground for the phrase, you didn't care about should just could, right? That kind of synergization of science and scientists. And don't get me started on fucking stem cell research and how evil that seemed to be, to evangelicals. I mean, here's the thing though, in every bit of this, there is that green of truth,

Verner von Braun. Yeah. You know, I make sure Zyrrakitz go up who cares. They come down right? So all of this. I'm sorry. I love how you're how you're German mad scientist.

Totally sounds like. We're going from our game. Well, it sounds yeah, but it sounds like Professor Von Drake from Disney. So just see if it a rocket's go up. I don't know if it'd come down. So all of this mixed with the aforementioned softening of people's trust and science in corporations and of course, Resident Evil is as popular as hell no matter how shitty the movie All right All right, let's see what you're saying. Yeah now. I'm gonna just speak about cloning and then we'll wrap this up Because then we're gonna get into house of the dead next time. Oh, so but speaking of cloning in 2004 Blood of the beast went straight to DVD

Which is a shame. But I do think that it's worth mentioning that it was attempted, and here's why. The plot is post-World War III, which makes sense, given that we're in the 9-11 kind of world, and there's a war on terror that's never going to end, and we don't know how. Societies become overreliant on cloning because most men are sterile due to the war. I don't think it's particularly zombie-based film as it's basically about the danger of clones turning 19 because when they turn 19, they go apeshit.

But given the success of Resident Evil games and movies, zombies are kind of spreading into scientific explanations and leaving behind their strict rules. The movie ends with the stars surrounded by the beast-like things that used to be human species, and then we're extinct. Yeah, I think that's where I want to end it because we're getting some really fun stuff, but I would just like to point out, and this will come up in our next episode, that George Bush, the president, spoke in his state of the Union address against science creating

human animal hybrids. Yes. So just. I, yeah. So... So Ed, number one, did I convince you when you were so very doubtful? I can definitely see there is some... Demeaned...

Dectiv tissue there. Of that thesis, yes. Yes. There is some gristle on that. Yeah. It's well marbled. Fuck. No, it's not well marbled. It's all, it's all connective tissue.

It's all, it's all gristle and fat. There's not fat. It's all gristle and bone. There's no, there's nothing yummy about that at all. The flavor, flavor comes from the fat. There's no there's nothing yummy about that at all The flavor flavor comes from the fat. There's no fat on that You know what I when I believe from it is as a, as a society, we in the United States are, are kind of constantly and, and, and the cycle like this ebbs and flows. But we, we are constantly on this, on the hunt for any, any excuse that we can find.

Excuse me. To be anti-intellectual. That's a really good way to put it. I mean, I think of conversations I've had recently with people who refuse to believe that Antifa is anti-fascist and insist that they're, and these are very educated people. These are people with like advanced degrees

that I don't have. Like, yeah, and they're just like, well, it's, you know, and it's that, it's that gray fallacy, it's that, because I think what pushes that excuse, and I'm sorry to interrupt and jump in on this, but I think what pushes that excuse that you're talking about is this need to polarize everything

as two equally bad choices, and I'm the only reasonable one in the middle not making a choice. I think when the funny thing is, I think there are multiple motivations. And when you're talking about anybody who's highly educated, those of us who have a college degree or above are susceptible to, well, I've got to be smart enough to balance these ideas against

each other, you know, thesis, antithesis, and thesis. You know, there is this idea that we've got to find, like the truth has to be somewhere in the middle, because of the way we've been trained to approach, you know, rhetoric or whatever. Right. You know, and that's, and that's, and that's part of just, that's a bias that gets subconsciously baked into the way we get educated. I think, and I think that's a, that's a vulnerability of those of us with too much book learning. For anybody who doesn't have that level of book learning, I don't think that's the motive.

I think the motive is, well, I don't trust anybody with too much book learning because book learning is elitist. And like we have this culture of lumping intellectualism and elitism together, which isn't all, which I mean admittedly is not always unfair. I was gonna say, it not unduly most of the time. Yeah, I'll be totally copped to it being totally fair. That as a matter of fact, I'm kind of elitist when it comes to that stuff.

And sometimes I've got to correct myself when I get into those models of thinking. But the thing is that the trouble that is it then turns into, okay, no, stop. These people have spent a lot of time studying this. Maybe you need to listen to what they have to say because they do know more about this than you do. Well, that doesn't mean they're in a smarter diet.

I'm not saying they're smarter than you. I'm saying they know more about this shit. And I would end up in this knee jerk. But there's this knee jerk, well, I don't gotta listen to that. Them upady intellectuals. And like any excuse that we have as a culture to jump back to then anti-intellectualism.

And I think that that knee jerk anti-intellectualism then kind of double trips up those of us with a lot of book learning because it's really hard to unlearn that when it's such a background part of our culture. And so we're then we have kind of this double urge to do the you know, grave fallacy kind of argument. Right. Because in the back of our minds, we still have that, well, you know, I don't want to be an elitist. You know what I mean?

Yeah. I think there's something. I think there's something missing there, though. I think it's the lack of humility to admit that someone is smarter than we are. Because here's the next step that you have to take. Number one, it could be in this specific topic, which then you could actually translate as this person knows more than I am.

It doesn't mean they're smarter than I am. They know more than me. And I think those are two different things, but more importantly, let's say that they are smarter than I am. They know more than me. And I think those are two different things, but more importantly, let's say that they are smarter than me. We still both have the same rights. And I think that ultimately, the way our system has come through, the way everything has been set up,

it is set up by elitists for elitists. And we are temporarily embarrassed elitists, but we don't want to admit to that. And so, if this person is actually smarter than me, then the system that I hope to capitalize on when I'm at the top is holding me down, and therefore there's something wrong with that system. But I'm counting on that system because I'm going to get to the top because I'm smart. Yeah. I therefore I have more value than someone else.

Instead of recognizing. Instead of recognizing that in fact, just because you're smarter than me doesn't mean and go the other way, just because this other person is dumber than me, doesn't mean that they don't deserve the exact same rights I deserve. And what the hell kind of system are we in, where we are parsing ourselves out, according to that, on some level, mentally, as well as economically, and whatnot. And I think that that comes back to a structural white supremacy, I think it comes back to

a very European post-renison way of thinking. Yes. And classes turn to racist over here right quick. Well, it's not, you know. And so the idea that there are people here that are betters and are lessers is something that we don't want to admit until we're on the top.

Where in reality, there are people who have much better skill sets than me in any number of things. And I happen to be an intelligent person, so I might have a better skill set than several people when it comes to that. That doesn't mean that they deserve any less than I. Yeah, no, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, and, to, well, you know, you think you're better than me because you did because you know how to do school good. And I'm like, that's not what I said. Right. And he couldn't get over that. Yeah. Well, and people are really big on, I want to construct a narrative wherein I'm the right one. Yeah. And setting up a false middle and polarizing. Again, we come back to that, you know, teach creationism. You know, it's it's not an equal and valid thing. And there's a moral responsibility that we're trying to sidestep there.

Because then we have to have a stake in a society that quite frankly might leave us out. Yeah. So that makes out. Yeah. So. That makes sense. Yeah. So, yeah, in theory, I'm talking zombie movies. In theory, yeah. So do you have anything you want to recommend or do you want to call it here? Because we've given people a lot of stuff to read.

Yeah, I'm going to call it here. Okay. In terms of recommendations, it's pretty true. For this episode, yeah. Well, I'm actually going to here. Okay. In terms of recommendations, it's pretty true. For this episode, yeah. Well, I'm actually gonna recommend another Star Wars book, and it's called Shock. I, you're gonna love the name of it though.

You ready? Yeah. It's a zombie. It's a Star Wars zombie book. It's not death troopers. It's red harvest. Okay. Now, you get. Lay. Now you get- Yes. Yes. It's set in the Knights of the Old Republic era. It's a legends book now because it's Old

Canon. Yeah. But it is it's a lot of fun because it starts to parse at the difference between what is a Sith and what is a dark Jedi? Yeah, and that one's that's that's kind of fun. But yeah, Red Harvest, it's a good little book, not nearly as good as Death Troopers, but it's also not as Mary Sue, because in Death Troopers you meet Han Solo for no goddamn good reason. But in Red Harvest, you don't meet anybody you really know, and it's it's It takes place in a very snowy place for a little while and I really like that of course So I'm gonna recommend red harvest as a Star Wars book. So all right cool. Where can people find you on the social medias?

I can be found at Mr. Blaylock on the Instagram I can be found at eHBlalock on Twitter and on I'm sorry I got that wrong. I'm eHBlalock on Twitter and on Instagram on MrBlalock on the TikTok. Where can they find you? You can find me at doharmony on Twitter and Instagram. You can find me every Tuesday night at 8.30 PM Pacific Standard Time on twitch.tv forward slash capital puns first First

Tuesday of the month. We're always doing Pun tournament anything after that is usually us playing games and having fun with comics and often the audience members actually It's kind of fun and where can they find both of us corporately to yell at us? If you want to correct us on something we've gotten wrong, we've said something that just tips you over into range, rage zombie territory, you can find us at Geek History Time on the Twitter machine. Great. Well, for Geek History Time, I'm David Hermany. And I'm Ed Blaylock. And until next time, they're coming to get you Barbara.