A Geek History of Time - Episode 132 - Zombies VIII

Episode Date: November 6, 2021

So first thing foremost, I think being the addition of pant leggings is really when you start to see your heroes get watered down. The ability to go straight man, that one. Which is a good argument for absolute girls. Everybody is going to get behind me though, and the support number is going to go through. When you hang out with the hero, it doesn't go well for you. Grandfather took the cob and just slid it right through the bar. Oh god, Bob. Okay.

And that became the dominant way our family did it. Okay. And so, both of my marriages, they were treated to that. Okay, wait, hold on. Yeah, rage, I could. How do you imagine the rubber chicken? My grandmother actually vacuumed in her pearls. Oh my god, you always had to sexual revolution.

It might have just been a Canadian standoff. We're gonna go back to 9-11. Oh, I'm gonna get over it. And I understand that the birds are still on the boat. Agra has no business being that big. With the cultists when we all win. This is a geek history of time. Well, we can have a good reason to be a girl who is an only-life middle school history and any questions you're on in California.

And the big news is that I have two items. Number one, and you know, the day man here always careful to tell me we don't want to date this, but I'm going to do it a little bit because I'm very excited about this. Tomorrow, let's go get my booster shot for COVID. I am very, very happy about this because I have spent the last couple of months at my job. Basically, every day, kind of partially holding my breath. Sure. And, you know, what was Delta being a thing, and the knowledge that, with what we know now about how boosters are working for people, I'm going to feel a lot better about going

into my job, you know, after a week, after my booster shot. So I'm very excited about that. And then the other slightly less grim detail is that my wife and I are in all seriousness, in all earnestness, now hunting for a house for ourselves and our son, which has multiple wonderful avenues. I'm very excited about what this means for the future. The two big ones we talked about, the barbecue issue before, but also, I'm very excited about the fact that wearing a move might have a better internet connection. So we might want to have our fans are just having fewer, fewer audio glitches and other issues come up on those occasions when we have to record at a distance. So that's my big news going on. Who are you and what do you got going on?

Well, I'm Damien Harmony. I am a Latin and drama teacher up here in Northern California. And actually I want to put in a request for you. Okay. When you get a house, make sure that you've got a good recording space for us so I can come to you. So let your wife know that I insist. I think that'll go over. Okay. I will. Yes. I'm sure that will go over famously. Yes. If I did it, it would actually. Yeah. To see you. Yeah. She would catch the twinkle in my eye and I'm charming.

Uh, you have only your personality to fall back on. So probably not a good idea. I think that's. Yes. yes, I think, yes, I think that's what I'm going to go with. Left handed inverted back handed complement. Yeah. But my big news actually is that I have been invited to be a Trump free speech defender. I have been getting emails all week from Donald Trump Jr. starting with friend, my father needs you.

Yeah. So my name is- Okay, I'm trying to remember is, is Trump Jr. be with her butt head? He's the one that's always coped out. Not the one that I actually spent some time defending because he seemed like he was on the spectrum. Right, right, right.

But so what I really want to, the reason I really bring that up is if you're out there listening, whoever played this prank on me, well done. And fuck you. I mean, this has the same vibe as when I used to call the most obscurely strange religious groups and give them my friends' addresses and ask for materials to be sent. So like the Korean Jewish Community Center, several of my friends got solicited by them. You know, stuff like that.

That's funny. Yeah, so this has that same vibe. OK. So lead dated a guy in late high school who wound up joining the Navy and apparently got into special forces. And he wound up giving her name to some kind of recruiting resource. And for literally years, about every six months,

she called by some different recruiting chiefs. Okay, so would be trying to get her to come in and she was eventually, she finally just lost it and said, okay, no, look, I dumped him, he was pissed. Okay, of all of us. No interest, I have no interest in, I dumped him. He was pissed. Okay. I have no interest. I have no interest in joining the military. He gave me the fuck alone. Okay, so I gotta say this,

like there are a thousand ways for guys to be shitty to their exes. Yeah. This way is kind of funny. Because what's the harm of every six months, having to tell the post guard know when you live in Kansas. You know, like, so, have you ever had a deal with the recruiter? Yeah, actually, I did. Oh, so, okay, a friend of mine, this motherfucker's

persistent. Yeah, well, they got to make quote a friend of mine was he lost his leg to cancer. And they kept recruiting him. And then he died. And they kept recruiting him to the point where his mom said, he's already dead, you don't get to do that. Yeah. So the Marines, I don't get to do that. Whoa. Yeah. So the Marines, I don't know if they kept calling her after that, but they also started, I don't know if they were going alphabetically or if they had a friend web or something, but they hit me up and they asked me in high school,

you know, hey, Damien, so and so from the Marines, like to talk to you about your future. Oh, okay. You know, can we meet, so and so from the Marines like to talk to you about your future. Oh, okay You know, can we meet you on campus tomorrow? Sure. We're having a picnic out on the senior quad Come on by Okay, now if if you don't know what I looked like in high school Imagine if one of Jesus's apostles was Irish and didn't walk anywhere if one of Jesus' apostles was Irish and didn't walk anywhere.

So the long hair. Hale, long hair. And chubby. Okay. Yeah, out of shape. So round, I was in a shape. Okay, yeah. Yeah. So.

Geometrically speaking, it's a shape. Geometrically, I was nearing perfection. But it's but it's Sfeerically, I'm saying phoenix. You weren't that spiritual. No, no, but all the same. So literal. Yeah, maybe there you go. Um, uh, parabola. Um, yeah, raw void. I don't know. So, uh, I, I call the friend of mine immediately. I said, hey, Ali, you know that pink dress you have that has little bells on it. Now remember, this is the mid 90s.

So the hip to ankle long skirt. Oh, yeah. Oh, oh, yeah. I had a thing for that. I'll tell you. Yeah. So I said, do you still have that? She said, yeah, I said, can I borrow you still have that she said yeah, I said kind of borrow it tomorrow

And she like sure So for the picnic I was there and my friend Ali's pink skirt And you know wearing probably yeah with little bells on and while probably wearing a nightish nails t-shirt or something like that and so When the recruiter showed up to our picnic, I stood up from being cross-legged. So now you see the flowy dress. And I went into, oh great, great. Would you like some bread? You know, you wanted to talk to me about my future. They never persisted. Oddly enough. So I took a page out of Max Q Klinger's book. Yeah, well, yeah. So

well, because because here's the deal, you hadn't already been conscripted. True, true. So, you know, but that's pretty good. Yeah, you know, the funny thing is I had an I had a classmate in high school who last mate in high school who tried with all of, like with every resource he had available, he tried to get into the Marine Corps. Because in his case, as soon as he graduated, his dad was retiring from the Coast Guard. His dad was a very, very, very senior NCO in the Coast Guard. His, uh, his dad was going to be retiring from the postcard and they were going to be leaving San Diego, California and moving back to Nebraska. Oh, where, where his dad had grown up and his mom had grown up. And my friend did not want to move back to remove to the Midwest.

Yeah, I can imagine. Unfortunately, he ran into medical disqualification issues, but the whole process, because the recruiter wanted him so bad, because the test scores were off the chart, because he's a brilliantly intelligent individual. The recruiter wanted him so bad, and he was so motivated that like he went through every process he could try to find to get a waiver and he just couldn't, he just couldn't meet

the medical requirements. So it's like your polar opposite now in his case it wasn't because he was like, you know, a marine corps, but like, yeah, I don't want to go to Nebraska. But, you know, but still he was highly motivated. And it just didn't, it didn't pan out. Yeah, well, the satire of, kind of, of both of those things. Yeah, so I wound up right out of college. I tried to join National Guard and got medically just qualified literally in the recruiting center. Oh, for your eyes. No, no, no, no, my

brain was penis. It was a comment, well, that too. Okay. Yeah. But it was a combination of things that was part of it. But it was it was mostly because the recruiting sergeant had been, shall we say a little sketchy in the way he advised me to report certain things in my medical history, which became blatantly obvious upon the actual, no, no, you got to stand here in your underwear and get a physical inspection from the military doctor. And yeah, I have a very prominent surgical scar on my left side that immediately became an issue. And yeah, I got to watch the recruiting sergeant get a very, very hard hairy eyeball from a

colonel over over why I was even there. Yeah. So that was an experience, but yeah, so we're here. We're not we're not here to talk about that tonight. No, we're here to continue talking about zombies. Yes. Yes, indeed. I don't even remember, this is like episode seven or eight.

Something like it. Something like it. But it's a genre that just keeps giving. It does, it does. It just won't die. And over and over again, rising from the grave. As it were. So I don't remember if we talked about I am legend,

but there's not much to talk about with it quite honestly. So I'm just gonna touch on it a little. Yeah, we got to the point where I think we were about, we were just about there before we got to it. So in 2007, we're gonna pick up with I am legend. There was, I told you about Flight of Living Dead. I remember because snakes on the plan. But we also saw I am Legend.

I am Legend. I personally actually think that these are zombies by the typical definition of zombies. And it does go back to the science explanation as well as that hope of reversal of the condition. And I actually think that this was a great movie. I think Will Smith carried it very, very well. He's one of the few actors that, you know, I mean, he is the Kevin Costner of that era. You know, Kevin Costner famously carried large chunks of movies on his own.

Yeah, on his own. Yeah, I see what you're saying there. And I think I think you're right. Um, I haven't, I haven't seen the whole movie all the way from beginning to the end. Ever, like, I haven't sat down and watched the whole movie all the way through as watching the movie, but I've seen 75% of the film. Sure. And in like chunks.

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Um, kind of how I talk these master going up. There you go. Yeah. Um, and, and the parts that I saw are a real testament to his ability to like you say, carry the film on his own. Absolutely. It's he, he, he, he still, and this remarkable that he still, I think, doesn't get sufficient credit for his genuine ability. I don't even want to say talent because he is a hard working son of a gun, like he has worked to develop his skill. And so the the ability that he has to emote without having to say anything.

Yeah, yeah, his eyes are his eyes and his lips are fantastic for that. He does, he tells a lot of stories on his face that way. Yeah, so yeah, no, it's it's what the parts of it that I've seen are a really a far better movie than the original source material I think deserves. Yes. And you know, it also, this particular one also inverts the zombie trope

because most of the time zombies are all very dark and rotty. These zombies are very white. And most of the time zombie movies are threatening a white woman, these zombies are threatening a black man. And this is the black man who is probably the only one who can figure out how to save them. So there's a lot of inversions there. Now what I didn't know at the time that I saw it

was that in fact was a remake. I was unaware. The Omega Man. Yeah, part of it's because I don't read besides Star Wars books and history books. So. Yeah, it's a, the film is a remake of the early film, Omega, or not early early film the 70s film of mega man with

Chuck Heston in his in his post-Planet of the ape sci-fi scenery chewing glory. Yeah, yeah Did you ever did you ever watch any part of Omega man? No, this party research for that. Okay. So, because the Omega Man was about vampires. So, yeah, and that's the thing. That's what's not as obnoxious about it is. It is really very much a vampire film, which is very much in keeping with the original short story, or novella that it's built around,

which I don't remember the title of the novella, and I feel that it might just be, I am legend actually. It might be, and I'll probably have to look it up, but it's a science fiction author's response to the writing prompt that we all see in college, creative writing last man on earth, hurt a knock at the door, is essentially where that short story starts.

Okay. And, and you, you make some interesting kind of statements about, you know, humanity and evolution and, you know, post-humanity and this kind of stuff. But, on an emotional level, the original story doesn't really, to me, anyway, have very much emotional impact.

I have legend had multiple points. And again, I've only seen three quarters of the film, maybe a little more, but like in the parts that I've seen, there are moments that are like a punch in a gut, like it's an amazingly emotional film. Oh yeah, quite so. So yeah. So when I saw it, I didn't know, like I said, that it was a remake, nor did I know that the zombies actually saw themselves as the intelligent and civilized group, and that he was the rogue danger to them. And I kind of wish that we'd seen all of that more too in the movie because they didn't really click into that.

Anyway, he's military, he's a scientist, and he systematically figured out how to survive in a world where he's all alone. And I just, I think that that's interesting in 2007. So I'm going to put a pin there. In 2007, also saw the movie called Planet Terror, which was part of Tarantino's Love Letter to the 1970s exploitation films, part of something called Grind House.

Now I never saw this, but by all accounts, it was good. It also touched on the possibility of some cure being available due to the immunity that others had, just like I am legend. So it's 2007 and there's two movies, besides the snakes on the plane knockoff, where there is a reversal in 2007, like in an election, you're coming up. We could What we've done wrong Okay, and all of these really white zombies And there's a really on the nose. There's a black guy who's coming up and who might have the thing that gives us Hope or change. Do we?

Do we want to give this at case that much credit for being actually on the nose. No, not at all because we're talking 2007. He hadn't won the primaries yet. Um, yeah, but, but, but, but, but on a, on a subconscious level, there might have been. Interesting that so, so, So, So, So, So, So, So, So, So,

So, So, So, So, So, So, So, So, So, So, So, So, So, So, So, So, So, So, So,

So, So, So, So, So, So, So, So, So, So, So, So, So, So, So, So, So, So, So, So, So, So, So, So, So, So, So, So, So, So, So, So, So, So, So, So, So, So, So, So, So, So, So, So, So, So, So, So, So, So, So, So, So far. Well, I mean, I mean, you know, okay, so, so let's see. I'm trying to remember when in 07 did the collapse wind up happening? Let's see. Did the great. I mean, I lost my house at August of Oh seven and it was already when things had started falling apart. Okay. Yeah.

So so let's let's say excuse me, let's say that then that whole thing had started in May. Trying to think like what time of year it was, but so the so the film was released in 07.

Yeah, well, so how is it prices? It would be peak to 06. I know that. And then in 07, they started coming down. Tumbling. Yeah, you started, yeah, I mean, really it's not till 08, that it really just starts crashing through the floor, but you see the tumbling starting to happen. In later six early oh seven because it peaked and then it starts to come down.

Because that was the point which everybody started realizing just how overvalued market was well because I remember good credit folks were getting screwed because there was the countrywide financial, I wanna say, that one got, how do I wanna say, got warned by the government like you'd better shore up your house. And that led to a loss of confidence and then people, and they tightened everything up. Like, yeah, too a loss and confidence and then people yeah, yeah, and they and they tighten everything up like yeah And then on and on and on so yeah, I mean we're talking like summer of 07 Which is one of this hits but in 06 we saw the peak which means there were plenty of people saying hey

Yo, this is a bubble as early as 06 as 06. Yeah. OK. And 06 was also a congressional election. It was. And that would have been, that was the midterms for Bush. And he lost those mischamps. Yeah. Well, he didn't. But like, Republicans lost those midterms. Well, he didn't, but Republican was an appropriate.

Yeah. And everything was falling apart, remember, in Iraq, because we were gonna get close to the surge. Oh, Jesus, yeah, no, everything was completely falling apart in Iraq by that time. Like it's obvious that the threads are stretching, right? Yeah. So yeah, all of that.

So there is a lot of, okay, we're going in a wrong direction. Yes. Kind of energy in the zitgeist. Yeah. So the tide is shifting. Yes. One direction to the other. Okay.

That makes it. Yeah. All right. And it's not like this movie was how to put, it's not like this movie hadn't been tried, people hadn't been trying to make the movie for a while because they had been For quite some time, but if I recall correctly it comes out in late 07 I want to say it's like kind of the last Zombie movie. I want to say it's I want to say it's kind of it was a Christmas one

Yeah, yeah, yeah, I want to say it was a holiday film. Or holiday. It was that season of releases film. And I remember they shot it on location in New York. Yeah. And I believe I want to say that was the year earlier. I want to say it would have been, yeah, because it would have gone into post-production.

Yeah, I bet you it was 06. So anyway, yeah, the movie starts getting shot when things are falling apart, which means that people are, you know, it's already been written, but I mean, this, again, this is a remake and on and on and on. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. But yeah, so.

There is a space in the popular consciousness. Yes. For this movie to get the green light and then it gets released and then it becomes a hit. It does. It was a success. It was in the top 20 for the year. Yeah. So I mean, not like a runaway. Oh my god, totally, you know, viral, but it was a successful film. It was. And this isn't like in the in the bush leagues where, you know, you can be a success by making $8 million because your budget was only, you know, 200,000. This was a studio production, where, you know, being that kind of success means you really have to hit a nerve and sell a lot of tickets.

And with the biggest name in summer blockbusters for years, and now he's doing this. It's a bit of a coming out for him as a more sensitive, less action, schlocky, and more sensitive emotional character too. Yeah. Well, because this is kind of the genre version of Cast Away. Yeah. Yeah.

Okay. So I remember the comparisons being made at the time. I do too. I do critics. And I will tell you this story and be as sensitive as I can a person with whom I was romantically involved at the time Okay, really came to see movies with me came to see this movie with me I did not know fully that it was a zombie movie at the time it looked post-apocalyptic and it was Will Smith and I was in We were walking out and I was like wow, it's a really good movie and this person said that was a terrible movie

I said really you didn't like that movie. No Why not you didn't tell me it was a goddamn zombie movie. Oh, I didn't realize that bothered you you told me it would be like castaway Well, it was no castaway had Tom Hanks So if Tom Hanks was in the movie, it would have been better. Yes. So you're a racist. What? No. Okay. And I was teasing at that point. But, but no, I hate no. I was teasing because I don't think that was from a racist spot.

That was a, I expected Wilson because I don't think that was from a racist spot. That was a I expected Wilson not You know not the dog. Yeah, not the dog getting choked to death. Yeah, uh, you know So so yeah, I Spoiler alert by the way on a movie. I mean it's a 14-year-old movie, but yeah still but anyway Uh, yes, it was the dog does not make it. It was, the dog does not, for those of you who don't know yet, I'm going to let you know now, because for some people that's a big deal, the dog doesn't make it. Anyway, there's even a website.

Does the dog make it? Yeah, I know. But, so, yeah, the comparison to Castaway, I think, is very apt. It's Castaway with Zombies and Will Smith. So in 2007, there's a movie about everything falling apart. And if we just listened to a damn scientist and a military expert at that, they could maybe see us through it. And also, there's the subtext of a whole bunch of white people

who could get saved by the black guy if they would just listen. Yeah. So that's there. And they're all present to the audience as being mindlessly aggressive. Yeah, they do. Now, there's also another resident evil sequel that came out in 2007. And so I'm kind of bouncing all around the year. Because, of do. They do. Now there's also another resident evil sequel that came out in 2007. So I'm kind of bouncing all around the year because of course there is. Yeah, yeah,

someone needed a new car. So at this point, Alice has been cloned. She has telekinesis and she's more and more badass. And at this point, the whole franchise is just an ATM. I mean, it really is. just an ATM. I mean, it really is. Okay, wait. Are you sure? Okay. Okay. Okay. So umbrella corporation biotech, you know, they're responsible for zombie play. So obviously like cloning is within their real house.

Of course. I can like, I'm fine with that. Okay. I'm not even gonna, I'm not gonna bad Nile-Ellash at that. Okay. But she's developed telekinesis. Yeah. Like cloned things enough and that happens. I mean, obviously. I'm not gonna bad Nile-ish at that. Okay. But she's developed to Elkinesis. Yeah, I hate clone things enough. And that happens, I mean, obviously.

Okay. Yeah. I, you know, I'm still kind of having a little trouble buying into that. But, all right. All right. I'm relic of operation, like I said, can't leave well enough alone.

They've absolutely raised the bar as far as the deadliness of the zombies, which in some ways, of course they did. But in other ways, the zombies are getting stronger. And that does deserve note in 2007 that these zombies are getting stronger in these franchises harder to kill more menacing. It's getting more dire in 2007. Then you also, yeah. Now the movie again, the Resident Evil film that released in 07. Yes.

But my question is, what is the turnaround time on a Resident Evil movie at this point? Probably 15 minutes. Okay. Okay. I mean, they probably just keep filming them, you know? Yeah, well because the thing is, that's a really trenchant observation on your part, that like, okay, it's 2007, and the zombies just keep getting harder to kill.

Yes. And they're a bear thread, they're scarier, and they're grimmer. Yeah, okay. So what moment in the Zit Guys led to this escalation? I guess is what I'm... I think we're seeing what's Resident Evil, we're seeing the capitalist aspects of it. You're seeing this makes a lot of money for our video games and our video games

make a lot of money for our movies and zombies are hot right now. Okay. Yeah. So it's it's it's strictly a we've got to raise the stakes. Mm-hmm. As a as a narrative device we have to raise the stakes for otherwise it's gonna come see it. It was it was called Resident Evil Extinction and it got released entirely. Yeah, okay. So all right so there's another movie in 2007 called War of the Living dead. And in this one, zombies enslaved humans and humans rise up. So there you go. Okay, wait, no, sorry. Sure. Back up.

Sure. Okay. I'm assuming in this scenario that these are not mindless zombies. These are somehow. Correct. Okay. So, so what makes these zombies dead? I mean, clearly there must be the risen dead qualify in some way.

Yep. So how are they are they shambling or are they fast on dead? They're quicker. They're quicker. Yeah. Okay, and they have speech and like clear, you know, cognition. Not quite. It's more like bullying. Okay. Yeah. I'm just, I'm as a, as a, you know, D&D veteran and a genre guy. I'm having a hard time picturing zombies

being the undead force that would enslave humanity like vampires I can totally see vampires have all kinds of mental abilities to hypnotize people their you know physically stronger they're faster they, they're all of the above. And they are smart. Zombies, kind of the definition of zombie is they're not smart. So one would think it would be difficult for them to enslave all of humanity. I'm just, I'm kind of hung up on this. I'm like, okay, that's an interesting reversal to me. And like I don't know if there's anything else worth noting in that film,

but that just strikes me as weird. Okay. Yeah. No, there's not much else of note there, quite honestly. Okay. But, but I do think it's interesting that the zombies are starting off in a position of power. Yeah. And humans are rising up in 2007. In 2008, you see a remake of Dave the Dead. So we have the second, I think remake of a Romero film. These zombies can also crawl on the ceiling. So that's horrifying And there's another government created virus that mutates and zombifies people too

So now you have government hubris so they can so they can they can violate physics and its government hubris Yep scientific and coupled with scientific hubris. Yep. So, in 2008, you have a lot of zombie movies, a lot of them, just like in 2007. Like, we're hitting the high water mark as far as quantity, but quality, I think, it belongs to 2008 because in 2008, the movie zombie strippers came out. So.

Yeah. Okay. So so is this another one of those Italian weird zombie pork. Okay. This was on Spike TV. Because of course it was. Spike TV was declaring itself man. Like it was At some point, and some point, we probably ought to just dedicate an episode to, okay, look, we had this thing. There was called Spike TV. Yeah. And as a culture, we need to reckon with this fact. True.

So in 2008, you, I'll go on. Well, no, just like, we could very easily spend an episode just talking about, okay, and then the guys behind Spike TV, because they were guys, like, there's no way, there's no way, there's a single woman involved in any pitch meetings anywhere for that network. But like, no, no, we're just, you know, we're just going to market to toxic masculinity. And that's going to be like our whole brand. that network, but like, no, no, we're just gonna, we're just gonna market to toxic masculinity and that's gonna be like our whole brand.

Yes. Like a genuinely feel like as a culture, we need to have that held up in front of us and be like, yeah, okay, we did that. Yeah, okay, that existed and that made money for a very brief period of time and we all need to recognize what's wrong with that. So, yeah, anyway, stepping off my soapbox. Sure, continue. So, zombie strippers.

Strippers. Um, yeah, spike TV. I believe Jenna Jamison was in it. So, of course, she was. Yeah. It was 2008, and yeah, it was spike TV. So there you go. All right. So also in 2008 you see the first call of duty Nazi zombies video game map come out. Really? Yeah, 2008, nocturne token from the world at war. Very popular overall. And then there was some DLC that you could download

and eventually Derri's cameras. Yeah. Well, yeah. We know about Derri's. So then in 2009, Dead Snow comes out. Now, I don't normally talk about foreign zombie films, but in this one I'm going to. It's one of my favorites of my favorites it's not American it's Norwegian it very much carries that Norwegian vibe that that understated comedy aspect to it okay and it's also the seventh zombie movie since Obama took office okay so now I have a question about that. So you're saying it's the seventh zombie movie since Obama took office. Now in this case, we're talking about a foreign made film. It is. Yeah. So, so then the question winds up being about that film, whether whether it is still in some way a response to the Zedgeist of the fact that the Americans finally elected a black man to the presidency. And then the question becomes of the seven films that have been made since the election

of Barack Obama to the presidency at this point. right. What is the ratio of zombies as proxy for communist liberals as opposed to zombies as proxy for fascist right wing jackasses? Well, I think this one has to stand outside of that because of what I'm about to tell you about it. But, as far as the others go, having zombies who are tied specifically to Arotica, having a very formula set of zombie movies come out. And again, with Resident Evil, it was a... Granchu that was also in 2007 and I'm talking about other stuff in 2008, but you know, there's a lot of films being made.

I would also point out that not all of them have such a quick turnaround. So many were being made while Bush was still in office, but their release comes after. And so I think there's a catharsis there. Now specifically dead snow I want to talk about because it's incredibly formula. So there are six medical students who go up to a cabin for the weekend to ride around on, they're not jet skis

there snow snowmobiles yeah those okay snowmobiles yeah pretty sure there's yes I'm pretty sure there's three gals and three guys okay I'm going from memory here it's been a while since I've seen three gals three guys and two of them that one of the guys in gals is a couple, and then I think the other four are kind of not, but maybe there's some sexual tension in there. Orbital friends, yeah, man. Not a kid late, got it. So the characters are, there is one guy, oh, they're not all medical students, I don't think, actually, just one of them them is and he is afraid of blood

Which they make fun of him briefly yep, they make fun of him briefly for it. So it's addressed okay and then They're all kind of getting things ready for this cabin right so they're they arrive at the cabin They've split up one of them's already riding in on the snowmobile and they're getting things ready. And then that night they all play truth or dare, some sort of game. By the way, the bathroom is...

Because of course they do because it's a horror film. So you have to have that element of young person sort of sexuality. Yeah, well, so... A nice, you know, element involved there? Yep. So there is a an outhouse Because they don't have a bathroom in there Which makes sense if everything's frozen. You don't want to have like you know pipes, right?

But they do have a sink, but you know, you could just leave that on drip But anyway, so they're they're playing a game and This old man shows up out of nowhere. And he knocks on the door and they open the door. He says, old man, and he says, give me coffee. And so they invite him in and they give him coffee. And it's very tense and he's just sitting there and he's stirring and drinking. And he does the whole, you kids don't know what happened

up here, speech. And as it turns out, what happened up there were that the Nazis took all the gold from the town and then also tried to do experiments. And all the gold was returned except for one piece or none of the gold was returned. And if the gold ever shows up again, the Nazi's will rise from the dead or something. Like I don't quite remember the speech that he gives, but he essentially is the pointer scene for the entire movie. Okay, yeah, because you have to have that because, again,

as you said, this is formulaic and that's how that goes. It's incredibly formulaic. So then he leaves. That's the trope. Yeah, then he leaves and they're like, that old man was crazy. Let's go back to playing our pseudo-sexual games. Oh, hey, look, I found a secret door to the underside.

Oh, there's a cool box. No. they pick up the box. Oh, wow, there's gold in there and one of them hits the ground. And meanwhile, one of the guys is out there in the outhouse and one of the gals goes out there and fucks him. And then he comes back in having just gotten laid. And then she gets killed because she had sex by a Nazi zombie. Now meanwhile the old man is out there camping and he gets attacked by a Nazi zombie and killed. And then pretty soon they're all getting attacked by Nazi zombies through the night and then through the day. And it ends up being a whole lot of ad hoc weapons and improvised weapons and there's a chainsaw involved

and there's a claw hammer involved. And there's a... So because, some of my movies, those are the tropes because the genre by this point has evolved to the level where part of the story is, what are you, you know, this isn't a vampire story. Like you don't, you don't have to have the ritualized weapon of a stake or garlic or, you know, silver or whatever. It's just like, oh, fuck, there's zombies. One of you got to hand, you know, because the primal horror

involved in a zombie apocalypse is, oh shit, this is coming out of nowhere. And we don't have time to prepare, you know, whereas other like a werewolf or a vampire or a ghost is like, no, there are specific rules here. Right. You know, it's an interesting, it's an interesting twist on, you know, so many, so many traditional monsters have a very apolonian set of rules about what you've got to do to kill them.

Zombies are innately, I kind of want to say more chaotic because like you can kill them with anything just as long as you hit them hard, nothing ahead. Yeah, they're more democratized. Yeah. Yeah. So, a little correction on some of that, the zombies saw that the war was going to end and so they looted, or the the Nazis did they looted the town and then the citizens rose up and ambushed and killed a bunch of them and then the zombies or then the Nazis were chased off into the mountains where they froze to death

and so then the old man leaves and you know gets all grumpy and shit. Um, and so the next morning, uh, you know, they're all fucking around in the out that night. Um, sure enough, uh, the gal gets killed for having sex and then they, they go, um, they go out to look for her and, uh, they don't find her. But I think one of the characters also was supposed to show up, but she was camping and so she's gonna catch up to them the next day. So there's then a layer of like we gotta find our friend, but the gal who was in the outhouse, they go looking for her, and of course her severed head shows up in the window. And now, yeah, and then the guy that she had sex with he gets murdered

and then okay well that's the least egalitarian uh-huh and then you know that one of the guys has gone off to go find the friend and he shows he finds like a Nazi cave filled with old Nazi weapons and so he gets attacked by the zombies but he escapes but he's bitten and then he said that's a question does he turn? No. So then if I recall correctly he grabs one of the machine guns and mounts it on the on the snow mobile. Okay so these zombies because they're not viral, they don't transmit Zambiism right See now that's that's a that's a deviation from what has become the trope. Yes Nicely done. Mm-hmm. I got to say I like that. Yeah, so then I think they try to use Molotov cocktails

But then they burn down their own cabin by accident and then yeah, that's the problem with those tactics. And then the guy who's afraid of blood, like he's just fully committed to doing it. And then somebody grabs him from behind and he spins around and buries and acts into his girlfriend. That sucks. Yeah. And then I believe everybody That sucks. Yeah. And then I believe everybody, more Nazis zombies come and then everybody tries to run to the cars and finally somebody realizes, oh, right, the box of loot and the Nazi zombie commander

gets the box of loot and then they don't follow. But then it turns out the main character, well, the semi main character, the one who lives, he gets in his car and one of the coins falls out of his pocket. The end. Well, it ends with the main Nazi commander smashing his window. Oh, okay.

There you go. So it's very formula. I mean, it hits all the buttons. Oh, yeah. I mean, right down to the very 70s ending of the Nazi commander smashing his window. Yes. Yes. Count Yorga vampire, which I know I've referenced before.

You have. I'm like, what a fucking downer. So yeah. Yeah. yeah yeah so that's That's that's dead snow. It's very formula and it's very awesome because of that You can walk away and come back and know exactly where you are in the film like you know, it's just good fun But it's a competently done. Yeah, well, it's a normal region in formula comedy It's a competently done. Yeah, well, it's a normal region. It's in formula.

Comedy on some levels, you know? And so it's going to hold to the trope through the ridiculousness. Yeah. Yeah, I mean, I highlight the ridiculousness while playing it straight. Yes. And yet somehow it's coming away tongue in cheek.

Yeah, which is a very Nordic sensibility. Mm-hmm. Yeah. So. All right. So in 2009, also Romero's final directed zombie movie before he died came out called survival of the dead. It flocks. That's kind of an oxy moron, isn't it survival? Well, of the dead. I mean, that's like, we had night of the living, living dead. Yeah, granted. But okay, so. So it flopped, it flopped badly. Why is it, that's a shame.

Yeah, well, here's the thing. It followed the members of the National Guard unit who went AWOL from the prior movie. And, okay, here's the thing. That's a great fucking idea. Yes. Like I really like that. Why? Okay, why did it flop? Because it well. It follows this group who goes AWOL and and they happen upon two different families who live on an island, who are approaching the zombies in two different fashions. The first family are the Moldoons,

and they round up all the zombies they can find, and they hope for a cure someday. And the other family, the Oflins, they get wind of this, and they try to kill the undead. The Moldoons are trying to get the zombies to eat something besides human flesh, and of course it doesn't work, and eventually some of the zombies do eat something besides human, which is a horse. Meanwhile, the patriarchs of the families are zombified at the end,

and they continue to try to shoot each other to death out of some memory of what their lives used to be like. I think this is why it flopped. It's Hatfields and McCoy's meat's gomarpile. And I think I do find interesting names of the family are are specifically flin and mulldune. Yeah, Oflin. Yeah. Oflin. Yeah.

Oh, oh, wow. OK. Like, yeah. I mean, you could have not slid, not bad enough. You could have done mick mulldune, you know, and just made it a little more obvious, but yeah. Oh crap. Yeah. Okay. Here's the other reason I think it flopped. Number one, you've got that aspect and I don't think America was ready for acknowledging the split down the middle on such ideological

stance, but more importantly, in 2009, Zombie land came out. And I think it shifted the genre in a lot of ways. Because Zombie land brought a very different feel on Zombies. Yes, there had been comedies before. I'm not saying that. But, and yes, we'd seen Zombies hunted for sport.

And that had been explored in other movies. Usually, as a sign of the nihilistic decadence of the post-apocalyptic society. So, yeah, those things are true, but it still has a very different vibe to them. And essentially, the plot behind this one is that BSE, bovine spongiform is cephalopathy. Mad couties, it jumps species and started making mad humans. Yeah. So survivors are few and far between, and the bonds of civilization are strained at best. There's a young man named Columbus, who's played by Jesse Eisenberg.

He's trying to get from his college town back to his hometown to check on his parents from Texas to Ohio incidentally Which this that that pinged my memory. I started thinking of the cattle drives, but it's in reverse Little though. Yeah. Now he meets up with someone who's not like him named Tallahassee What do you hear? Who's really good at zombie killing? so if you think of 48 hours but take out about 75 to 80% of the racism and 100% of the Nick Nolte, you basically got it, right? So, I have, Nick, it's interesting.

Zombie Land is a zombie movie. I was actually able to sit down and watch without like any trouble Cool again, when when it comes to horror movies. It's because of how it's played. Yeah Yeah, zombie land plays it As as enough of a comedy that like I can handle it now at the risk of of like getting ahead of your notes again. Because in the other episode,

you talked about Sean of the Dead. Yes. And I beat you to mentioning that that is a quintessential Gen X zombie film. This is, I'm gonna say, the quintessential millennial zombie film. Because of, again, there's, by this time, so now we're looking at the shot of the dead being,

when it was made, this is now, you know, 10 years later, however many years after the fact, Jesse Eisenberg, number one, is very clearly in the millennial generation. And number two, the sensibility and the outlook of the film is very much in keeping with that same generational shift. You know, Sean of the Dead was a, look, all I wanna do is like play video games, hang out with my buddy and like, you know,

I don't, I come to care about the rest of all this stuff, just like, let me, let me do what I gotta do. And this one is, okay, look, this whole situation sucks, but here's what you can do to get through it. And I think there's a very potent generational difference between our generation, which is Gen X, like, meh, all right, look, I wanna do what I wanna do, like whatever.

And the situation that situation that you know, Millennials found themselves in, which is like what we found ourselves in only everything is more entrenched. And like we don't know when we're going to be able to actually like be adults because everything that defined adulthood is now shifty and like doesn't apply to us anymore. You know, and there's been this huge paradigm shift in the way the whole world is working now. You know, and so yeah, I think we're looking at Zombieland being a generational statement

through the lens of the zombie genre. on the land being a generational statement through the lens of the zombie genre. Mm-hmm. Am I full of shit? No, I think you're right. I think you're off by your years. This is only five years away from Sean of the dead, which kind of shows me the micro generations that do exist between X and millennials.

Okay, well, I was also going to say that we're Gen X, so we took a long time to get anywhere. Yeah. So, okay, so they're on their travels and they meet Wichita and Little Rock, which are played by Emma Stone and Abigail Brezlin. And the thing is, if you've noticed, everybody's named after a place,

which really makes me wish that they'd met someone from a single town in Kentucky, because that would be, hey, this is my boyfriend, Beaverlick. But I wasn't in the wider writers room, so. No, you weren't. So. So the girls hustle the boys and the boys give chase,

and eventually they all become uneasy allies. Columbus switches destinations after he finds out that his hometown of Columbus, Ohio, has been destroyed. And when the women say they're going to an amusement park that's supposed to be zombie-free in L.A. So now it's unlikely allies and people that they don't trust travel story. Think Cornmack McCarthy's the road if the kid was zany. And it says going out west thing. So maybe add in a sprinkle in a little bit of grapes of wrath. So a little bit. Yeah, now more on this overall meaning later,

but suffice to say, this is the first popularization of a Western zombie movie for a mass audience. Cause this is in some ways a heading west kind of Stoga wagon style. Okay. Now when they get out west, yeah, okay. When they get out west, they meet Bill Murray's character, who is Bill Murray in that world.

And he dresses and acts like a zombie to move amongst them, but he lives in his mansion when he's not traveling. So they all get to the amusement park and the women turn on the park to enjoy it. And of course the noise and the lights draw zombies to the park. And there's hilarious peril. Eventually Wichita kisses Columbus and tells them a real name. And then the four of them seem to be trauma bonded, which gives credence to your idea that this is a millennial film because millennials are nothing if not really good at trauma bonding. Trauma bonding. I'm also going to say there's a weird, I don't want to say inversion, but a weird mutation

in a way of the, and I know we got criticized hard on Twitter for bringing up this trope, but there's, in a way, there's a little bit of a mutation of the manic pixie dream girl trope. And that is the eyes and works character is this kind of, well, you know, kind of milk toast doesn't really have any direction. He wants to get back to his parents because he cares about getting back to his parents, but he doesn't really have any direction until he meetsichita, and Wichita is this badass, no, I'm gonna protect my sister, I'm gonna be a total survivor.

Right. You know, Emma Stone, badass, kind of character archetype. And he winds up kind of through his involvement with her, like becoming somebody who literally says, fuck this clown, and manning up. And so there's the same kind of, the character arc is kind of the same as the,

you know, feckless lit student, you know, meeting the, you know, manic pixie dream girl, you know, a feckless lit student, you know, meeting the, you know, manic pixie dream girl. Mm-hmm. You know, breakfast, certificates, kind of kind of arc there, but instead of being, you know, Sandra Bullock in, you know,

full on hippy chick mode, she's like a badass zombie movie survivor. Mm-hmm. It's a weird inversion. Okay. In a way of the trope, but it still kind of follows the same arc. I, yeah. Yeah.

You know, which, which, like I noticed at the time when I first watched the movie and, like there's a part of me that finds part of that whole trope, like the whole arc is a little, I don't know of problematic, is there any word, but a little bit, irksome? I don't know. Anyway, I'm just kind of spitballing, but I spotted that kind of arc going on there. And on the one hand, Emma Stone kind of is a badass and the character she plays

is totally badass and that's awesome in everything. But it's still kind of the same. We're going to center Jesse Eisenberg's character. And everything is about his arc. Yeah, well, he is the main character. and everything is about his arc. Yeah, well, he is the main character. And so she is a badass manic pixie dream girl. Okay. Yeah. What I find interesting is that at the end of the Bush presidency, there's a charming cowboy type who takes three young people out

west in a western style comedy, which is set during an apocalypse. And instead of being serious, it's hilarious. There's a lot of things in this movie, but what grabbed me the most was about that. It's gallows humor. All of life sucks, and it's turned upside down, unending wars, enormous financial ruin,

people died when it rained in Louisiana, and so on. But what can you do when the apocalypse is here but laughed? And the characters are definitely quadrant fillers. and so on. But what can you do when the apocalypse is here but laughed. And the characters are definitely quadrant fillers. You've got the young liberal college kid, who cares about his family. You've got the older folksy well-armed mentor man. You've got two cute blondes,

one who takes care of her younger sister, kind of a Paris and Nikki echo there. So both ends of the political spectrum can see themselves in the protagonist in this film. Okay, I'm going to throw one point out there. Sure. The reveal about telehassy is one that at the time was very, was hard. Now that I have a three and a half year old little boy, I don't think I could watch

this movie again. Yeah, yeah, because the reveal about what actually, what actually, a lot of ways to tell it. Yeah. Like I could not fucking handle that. Like even thinking about it right now, talking to you about it and remembering the reveal in the film, I am having a hard time talking about it right now. And so I totally see what you're saying, but I also just want to bring up the extent to which that is a weird punch in the gut in the middle of. Well, it's an easy way to give somebody depth. It's cheap. It's in wrestling we call that cheap heat.

It's spinning on your pointer. He's zany and this and that and the other and he's also kind of grumpy and all that but he's down and he's fullxy. By the way, he has a dead kid. It's instant depth, you know? Okay, I can see that. Yeah.

But, yeah, I, I, okay. And I totally agree with the cheap, but rather cheap heat, because fuck you, man. Okay. And yeah, this is Gallows humor, and it is post-apocalyptic, and you are being guided through the fulxiest Virgil who could ever take you through the nine circles.

Okay, so which is right after we had that president that you could really have a beer with him and you know, yee haw always form policy. You know, I don't want to say fuck him because that's an easy answer. I kind of want to say fuck the American electorate Well, I mean the first time Sure popular versus yeah, yeah, yeah, okay granted okay, so but still the movie itself was a smash success It made over a hundred million dollars in theaters and it only cost 23 million to make and it's definitely a Western now in 2010 resident evil afterlife came out and at this at this point why bother it makes a ton of money it gets panned it continues to be

hugely popular fans of the video game is getting less and less than other zombies though and more about video game world and Alice's growing than other zombies though and more of a video game world and Alice is growing fight with the umbrella corporation. Zombies are kind of pushed mostly to the background, environmental menaces. Yeah, okay, hold on. Okay, hold on. Is Alice still a telekinetic?

Yeah, a little bit. A little bit, yeah. Okay, yeah, Jesus. Yeah, okay. Now I do think that that very quick encapsulation of it, the fact that they get pushed to the background, plus the zombie land approach, is what actually opens the door for a TV series of such significance that it's going to take up a lot more of this podcast than I'd originally

intended. Now, I'm still going to try to be brief as everyone in their mom has seen it, but this is the Walking Dead. And actually, I think that that's actually a really good place to stop it. On the next episode, I'm going to talk about the Walking Dead for way too long considering I said I was going to do movies. But you can't not answer to Josephine Tay when you're talking about Richard III. You can't not answer to the Walking dead when you're talking zombie movies. So, yeah, that makes sense.

So I would point out that I'm talking about the genre. Right. I would point out though that we have an approach that it's now like a Western and that the zombies are now a background environmental menace. They are just part of the scenery that activates when background environmental menace. They are just part of the scenery that activates when you need menace. So those are things to keep in mind

when you're talking about that. But now there is a nihilistic chuckling at it. So that's kind of where zombie movies have gone and that takes us to 2010, which again, there's the old theory of, like, when zombie movies are popular and whatnot. And I will get to that because I think it deserves mention and interrogation, but I don't know that it necessarily holds up. So anyway, for right now, though, what have you gleaned?

Anyway, for right now, though, what have you gleaned? I think what's sticking out in my mind right now is the fact that this is now its own genre, like it has been for a while, but talking about dead snow and the ways that that, you know, followed the formula. And then going to Zambieland, talking about, okay, no, now we have an upending of the formula that now shifts the tropes is, is number one, an interesting statement on the evolution of like the way the memes involved work, which I think is fascinating from a very pointy headed kind of point of view. But at the same time, it's very interesting to me that we see the zombie genre being used as an overlay for things that are very clearly other genres too, like Zomeland being the huge overlay, you know, the western overlay

over the zombie genre. All right. you know, the Western overlay over the zombie genre, or vice versa. And yeah, no, I'm gonna have to save the rest of my statement about that for the next episode, because the end of the very first episode of the Walking Dead was an amazing statement about that by itself. So I'm gonna have to wait for that until then, but the interplay

between genres that like well, okay, you can have a zombie like there's zombies in this story and this is a zombie movie, but it's a western right like we're telling a western story, but like it's a zombie story at the same time You know in the same way that you know, in the same way that, you know, science fiction, we're gonna tell a science fiction story, but it's basically Western. We're gonna tell a science fiction story, but it's basically a romance, you know.

I think it's interesting that zombie story It's interesting that Zombie story has managed to separate itself from the horror genre. Yes. So thoroughly by this point, that like, Zombiela had almost, at all a horror film. No, it's really not. Which is why I was able to sit down and watch the whole thing I'm not have trouble getting sleep for weeks afterward and I think it has to do with the fact that what I what I've already kind of brought up is that is that the the zombie themselves are a landscape

menace Yeah, they are not the central terror. There is no central terror. It is humans dealing with humans. Hence the Western. Yeah. Yeah. That makes sense. Yeah. Cool. So how about you? I mean, at this point, what is your, what is your, I'm not going to say what have you lean? Because you're going to get all the work on this whole, you know, Titanic series. What has to be done? What has your reflection at this point on the road? Just that I keep looking at the year that something happens and it keeps matching up with the shifts that are happening in society.

We're talking about essentially Resident Evil where the threat is relegated to kind of the background and it's much more about a corporation against a person in 2010. 2010 are the midterms where the tea party takes over. Mitch fucking my colonel. Among others, don't forget, don't forget, what was his face? The banner? Banner, no, he thought he could hold the tiger by the tail. No, got the young guys,

those just the young tea party caucus. Right, yeah. Well, and really handsome guy that does P90X. Oh, real shithead. Not Rand. No. No. He's been a Randian, but like I know exactly what you're talking about. And he's a yeah. Yeah. So you have people like that, you know, yeah, well, you know, so and and you have people like Oh the gal from Minnesota The really crazy one Michelle Bachman

You have people like that starting to show up if if she didn't get into office on that year She came in shortly thereafter. So when you have this huge transition, as in the scariest possible thing has happened to a certain segment of society, a black man dared to rise above his station, then suddenly they go ape shit and the zombies are a background menace. And really what matters is the fight between humans. So yeah, it that makes sense. So you got anything you want us to read or take a look at? Edgar Allen Poe.

Oh. I'm so, so as we record this, we're in spooky season to, you know, not give too much away, but I have rediscovered the remarkable power of, of, of pose language, trying, trying to teach the Raven to my sixth grade English class. And there is a version, there's a video that was done by trilobite films. If you look up the Raven trilobite films, you'll find this video. It's a black and white video,

it's a black and white film, short film. It's 12 minutes long of the Raven. That is amazingly done. Nice. The reading is, uh, the reading of the poem fellow who portrays the narrator is wonderfully done. And it uses stop-motion animation, like paper puppet, like the same kind of animation they see in Kubo in the two strings for the raven itself. And it is absolutely amazing. And the poem, I had forgotten just exactly how flowery Poe's language was, which seeing as he was a southerner writing in 1847, who was, you know, probably under the influence of absent, at least part of the time he was writing it, shouldn't come as any shock,

but his ability with meter and rhyme and managing to then create within the restriction of the poem he was trying to write, telling a story that really is fucking scary, is really amazing. And I just I recommend everybody take, you know, a few minutes out of your day because I'm not going to recommend you read it after dark. Go back and go back and find find the Raven online and read it

because it really is. There's a reason it's a classic, it's amazing. And again, struggling for teachers sixth graders has, as number one, driven me nearly to the point of madness. And two, has really made me appreciate just how amazing the work is. So that's, that's my recommendation.

Nice tonight. Nice. About you. I'm going to actually recommend people go watch Dead Snow. It's spelled D-O, but it looks like a null set, D, and then SN-O. I think either with an umlaut or another null set, null set. So the, so the, the, the norwegian spelling, do you? Yeah, Dodd Snow. Do I'm going to recommend people watch that, because that is a fun 90 minutes. It really is. So. Okay. Yeah. Well, cool. Where can they find you

on social medias? I can be found at ehblaloc on Twitter, and I can be found at MrBlalock on the TikTok and on Instagram. And we collectively, if you want to shout at me for bringing up the Manic Pixie Dream Girl Troll, again, you can find us collectively on Twitter at Key History Time. And where can you be found, sir? You can find me at Harmony on both Insta and Twitter. And then every the first Tuesday of every month, you will find me on twitch.tv for slash capital puns, slinging puns with the capital punishment crew. So those are the places you can find me for right now. Very cool.

Yeah. Well, go ahead. Well, I'm also going to point out that, of course, our website is a key history of time.com. Good. And please go check it out and find us on the iTunes podcast app on Stitcher and on Spotify. I'd subscribe to please do so. Please give us a review. Please give us the five stars that you know we have earned, especially Damian with his exhaustive research topics and you know me for finding a way to wing it so consistently what it's my job to do that You know give us the five stars we deserve and yeah after that

That's pretty much what I got cool. Well for a geek history of time. I'm Damien Harmony and I'm Ed Blalock and until next time keep rolling 20s And I'm Ed Blaylock and until next time, keep rolling 20s.